From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Apr 28 2:20:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-165-226-18.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.165.226.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68BFD37B416 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 02:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B36C166C2B; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 02:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 02:20:40 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Thinking about more work on 'patch' Message-ID: <20020428022040.A16513@xor.obsecurity.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from drosih@rpi.edu on Sat, Apr 27, 2002 at 10:30:25PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Sat, Apr 27, 2002 at 10:30:25PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > Is this worth doing? Yes. Please do it. Kris --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8y77nWry0BWjoQKURAjgcAJ93kz5mATAvR+IXSn2mZwe6wuSWtACbBUqc XHKeIxz4Fi46tfc/nT+4Eak= =r1GA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Apr 28 8:51:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8325537B4CF for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 08:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3SFoTH09023; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 09:50:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3SFoSb69469; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 09:50:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 09:49:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020428.094939.65876556.imp@village.org> To: drosih@rpi.edu Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Thinking about more work on 'patch' From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: Garance A Drosihn writes: : When checking the 'patch' utility while doing the "no newline" : update, I noticed that both OpenBSD and NetBSD have a number : of nice updates to clean up parts of the source code. I also : noticed that both of them have a version of patch which is : BSD-licensed, apparently because someone got Larry Wall to : re-license one of the early versions of patch [I am a little : vague on the exact details there...]. You should send mail to the NetBSD folks. However, my recollection from their developer list traffic, as well as a hazy conversation I had with Perry over beers at BSDcon was that they had explicit permission from Larry Wall to do this. Also, older versions of patch were not released under the GPL, but something kinda BSD-like. Patch pre-dated perl, which was Larry's first thing to use the Artistic license. : Take the patch from OpenBSD or NetBSD, and put it in : src/usr.bin (I think theirs are based on patch 2.0.). : Then add whatever updates the other one has done, and : then add whatever updates we (as freebsd) have done. I think that it would be a worthwhile project. I got the impression from Perry that he'd love to see more cooperation between the BSD camps and for things like this have one version if at all possible. : Initially I'd suggest putting it in with 'PROG=bpatch' in : the Makefile (just so it will not install over the patch we : presently use), and only switch it to being 'patch' when we : are comfortable that I have all the pieces in the new version. : : Once done, we could then toss both of the other two versions : into the attic. Is this worth doing? Sounds good to me. Just make sure that this effort doesn't derail efforts to MFC the changes to patch that makes it grok the no EOL at end of file stuff that was just added :-) Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Apr 28 10:29:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (pc-62-31-42-140-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [62.31.42.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4AA637B41D for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g3SHVZl97835; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:31:35 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:31:34 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Thinking about more work on 'patch' Message-ID: <20020428183134.R30474@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="9S80siGrzvaEFf+2" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from drosih@rpi.edu on Sat, Apr 27, 2002 at 10:30:25PM -0400 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --9S80siGrzvaEFf+2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Apr 27, 2002 at 10:30:25PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > Take the patch from OpenBSD or NetBSD, and put it in > src/usr.bin=20 src/contrib/bsdpatch ? =20 N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ (__) FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ \\\'',) \/ \= ^ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- .\._/= _) --9S80siGrzvaEFf+2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjzMMfYACgkQk6gHZCw343VWjQCfTTQHSyb1z5Da1xqG4JeUeaTZ 0rsAnAsuhJdXewbXDG92AGSciPrZNMaA =AFWa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9S80siGrzvaEFf+2-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Apr 29 3:11:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42F4437B41B; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 03:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g3TABjYm055305; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 03:11:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.3/8.12.2/Submit) id g3TAAU6V055272; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 03:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 03:10:29 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Nik Clayton Cc: Garance A Drosihn , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Thinking about more work on 'patch' Message-ID: <20020429031029.A55182@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: Nik Clayton , Garance A Drosihn , arch@freebsd.org Mail-Followup-To: David O'Brien , Nik Clayton , Garance A Drosihn , arch@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020428183134.R30474@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020428183134.R30474@canyon.nothing-going-on.org>; from nik@freebsd.org on Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 06:31:34PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 06:31:34PM +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Sat, Apr 27, 2002 at 10:30:25PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > Take the patch from OpenBSD or NetBSD, and put it in > > src/usr.bin > > src/contrib/bsdpatch ? Only if we truely aren't going to add our own tweaks and enhancements. Garance certainly made it sound like he was going to add FreeBSD'isms to the code. Thus src/contrib/ is not the right place for it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Apr 29 21: 4: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B76F37B416 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3U444H17756 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:04:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3U442b80522 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:04:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:03:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020429.220354.74235068.imp@village.org> To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Thinking about more work on 'patch' From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20020429031029.A55182@dragon.nuxi.com> References: <20020428183134.R30474@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> <20020429031029.A55182@dragon.nuxi.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: <20020429031029.A55182@dragon.nuxi.com> "David O'Brien" writes: : On Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 06:31:34PM +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: : > On Sat, Apr 27, 2002 at 10:30:25PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: : > > Take the patch from OpenBSD or NetBSD, and put it in : > > src/usr.bin : > : > src/contrib/bsdpatch ? : : Only if we truely aren't going to add our own tweaks and enhancements. : Garance certainly made it sound like he was going to add FreeBSD'isms to : the code. Thus src/contrib/ is not the right place for it. I'd love to see us not add too many FreeBSDisms to patch, if at all possible. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Apr 30 18:39: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E55D837B440; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway.posi.net ([12.236.90.177]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020501013840.XXQD9799.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@gateway.posi.net>; Wed, 1 May 2002 01:38:40 +0000 Received: from localhost (kbyanc@localhost) by gateway.posi.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g411cX211045; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:38:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@posi.net) X-Authentication-Warning: gateway.posi.net: kbyanc owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:38:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: Bill Fenner Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Subject: Re: Overflowing sockaddr_dl's sdl_data buffer In-Reply-To: <200204211826.LAA05288@windsor.research.att.com> Message-ID: <20020430181359.G11009-300000@gateway.posi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-819770887-1020217113=:11009" Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-819770887-1020217113=:11009 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Attached are (very) simple patches which attempt to address the problem. I've included -net in the CC to solicit a larger audience. On Sun, 21 Apr 2002, Bill Fenner wrote: > > I think that sdl_data should go back to being a variable-length buffer, > and the source routing stuff should be reimplemented somewhere else > (perhaps at the end of the variable-length buffer). > > What uses the source-routing fields? > > Bill > Yeah, this is the route I favor, except that it would clearly break compatibility with 3rd party binary-only drivers. Personally, I would really like to see a solution implemented in the RELENG_4 branch. To that extent, the attached patches keep the sockaddr_dl at it's current size but allots the entire 34 bytes needed for token-ring source routing to the sdl_data field (for a total of 46 bytes). The token-ring code just embeds it's source routing information in the sdl_data field now. I also removed setting the source routing control field to zero for non-iso88025 sockaddr_dl's since all of the code which examines the field appears to contingent on the interface being of the iso88025 persuasion. That said, this leaves ample room in the sockaddr_dl structure for interface name and MAC address in the sockaddr_dl (too much, but the overall size hasn't changed). However, token ring interface names are still limited to 6 characters before they risk overflowing the sdl_data field with their source routing information. This is no worse than the existing situation wherein a token ring interface with more than 6 characters would cause the last byte(s) of the hardware address to get clobbered by the source routing control field. One point I am a little leary of is that in in_arpinput() the original code appears to have made provision for receiving an ISO88025 frame on a non-token ring interface and trusted the source routing information contained in such a frame. First, is this a correct reading of the code? And second, is this correct behavior? If so, I can easily restore it. There are 2 sets of attached patches: one for -current and one for -stable (the one suffixed with a 4). I've tested these pretty extensively on -stable but haven't done any testing at all for -current (admittingly, not even a build); furthermore all testing was just with ethernet...I do not have access to any token ring hardware. I would appreciate any feedback regarding the approach and anyone who can confirm that I haven't horribly borked token ring source routing. If all looks well, then ifconfig (and others?) will have to be updated to not try and print source routing information unless the interface is token ring. Thanks, Kelly kbyanc@{posi.net,FreeBSD.org} The original message for those subscribed to -net but not -arch: From kbyanc@posi.net Tue Apr 30 18:13:51 2002 Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 01:48:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Overflowing sockaddr_dl's sdl_data buffer While working on a product at work, I discovered that it is trivial to overflow the sdl_data buffer in sockaddr_dl structures. In our case, I enountered the bug by creating a vlan100 interface. The sdl_data buffer is populated with both the interface name and the parent interface's hardware address; in his case 7 characters for the interface name and 6 more for the parent's MAC address for a total of 13 characters (sdl_data is only defined for 12 characters). As a result, the sdl_rcf field is garbage (actually, the last octet of the MAC address). While, I worked around the problem in our product, I would prefer to see the bug fixed in FreeBSD proper. So, I would like to solicit discussion of the proper fix for this bug. Should sdl_data's length be extended (say 16 characters)? This would surely break binary compatibility and only postpones the issue (imagine an interface with a longer name). Should bound's checking be added to eliminate the (supposedly optional) interface name from the sdl_data buffer if there is not room? If so, how does one ensure all drivers (including 3rd party) perform the bounds-checking? Surely there are other options too. In any event, the comment in sys/net/if_dl.h for the sdl_data field needs updating because since the source routing information was added following the sdl_data field it is impossible for the sdl_data field to be larger than that defined by the structure definition. 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To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: deperlifying sockstat(1) From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 02 May 2002 00:54:29 +0200 Message-ID: Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm working on a C version of sockstat(1), and to complete it I need to do nasty stuff like using libkvm and defining _KERNEL before including some headers (see fstat). I'm starting to think that it would be easier to just make a kern.sockstat sysctl node, and make sockstat(1) a #!/bin/sh wrapper around sysctl(8). Ideas? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed May 1 16: 3:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B41137B425 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 16:03:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id E8CFFAE163; Wed, 1 May 2002 16:03:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:03:38 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deperlifying sockstat(1) Message-ID: <20020501230338.GI98487@elvis.mu.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [020501 15:54] wrote: > I'm working on a C version of sockstat(1), and to complete it I need > to do nasty stuff like using libkvm and defining _KERNEL before > including some headers (see fstat). I'm starting to think that it > would be easier to just make a kern.sockstat sysctl node, and make > sockstat(1) a #!/bin/sh wrapper around sysctl(8). Ideas? What's wrong with extending the mess already in fstat or just popen()'ing it like the current sockstat does? -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed May 1 16:17:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 826DD37B416 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 16:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id D81FE5346; Thu, 2 May 2002 01:17:04 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deperlifying sockstat(1) References: <20020501230338.GI98487@elvis.mu.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 02 May 2002 01:17:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20020501230338.GI98487@elvis.mu.org> Message-ID: Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein writes: > What's wrong with extending the mess already in fstat or just > popen()'ing it like the current sockstat does? C is not Perl. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed May 1 16:39:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.chesapeake.net (chesapeake.net [205.130.220.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8FC837B405 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 16:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jroberson@localhost) by mail.chesapeake.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g41Ndb874205 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 19:39:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jeff@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.chesapeake.net: jroberson owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 19:39:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Roberson X-X-Sender: jroberson@mail.chesapeake.net Reply-To: Jeff Roberson To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Removal of register && K&R function decl. Message-ID: <20020501193212.C9763-100000@mail.chesapeake.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What is the policy on commits soley to remove the register keyword, as well as ansification of functions? A certain eager contributor would like to do a general sweep through kern/* to remove these antiquities. Would this create too many diffs for people actively devloping in these areas? If not I agreed to review and commit these patches as they come. Thanks, Jeff To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed May 1 17:16:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ACEC37B417; Wed, 1 May 2002 17:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 22F39AE027; Wed, 1 May 2002 17:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 17:16:46 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Jeff Roberson Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Removal of register && K&R function decl. Message-ID: <20020502001646.GL98487@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020501193212.C9763-100000@mail.chesapeake.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020501193212.C9763-100000@mail.chesapeake.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Jeff Roberson [020501 16:39] wrote: > What is the policy on commits soley to remove the register keyword, as > well as ansification of functions? A certain eager contributor would like > to do a general sweep through kern/* to remove these antiquities. Would > this create too many diffs for people actively devloping in these areas? > If not I agreed to review and commit these patches as they come. Please only remove 'register' when doing cleanups of your own code. Please don't ansify functions, some people prefer the old style. -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed May 1 17:35:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C03937B416; Wed, 1 May 2002 17:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 560DB5346; Thu, 2 May 2002 02:35:29 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Jeff Roberson , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Removal of register && K&R function decl. References: <20020501193212.C9763-100000@mail.chesapeake.net> <20020502001646.GL98487@elvis.mu.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 02 May 2002 02:35:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20020502001646.GL98487@elvis.mu.org> Message-ID: Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein writes: > Please don't ansify functions, some people prefer the old style. Last time this came up, the consensus was that ANSIfication was permitted. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed May 1 17:45:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 146E437B41B; Wed, 1 May 2002 17:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id DF6DEAE027; Wed, 1 May 2002 17:45:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 17:45:26 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Jeff Roberson , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Removal of register && K&R function decl. Message-ID: <20020502004526.GM98487@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020501193212.C9763-100000@mail.chesapeake.net> <20020502001646.GL98487@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [020501 17:35] wrote: > Alfred Perlstein writes: > > Please don't ansify functions, some people prefer the old style. > > Last time this came up, the consensus was that ANSIfication was > permitted. We also have KSE and SMPng work to do. Also ANSIfication makes the code look terrible when there's more than 3 arguments. -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed May 1 18:27:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D41F037B416; Wed, 1 May 2002 18:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g421R2BN048804; Wed, 1 May 2002 21:27:03 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020501193212.C9763-100000@mail.chesapeake.net> References: <20020501193212.C9763-100000@mail.chesapeake.net> Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 21:27:01 -0400 To: Jeff Roberson , arch@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Removal of register && K&R function decl. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.3 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 7:39 PM -0400 5/1/02, Jeff Roberson wrote: >What is the policy on commits soley to remove the register >keyword, as well as ansification of functions? The decision has already been made that ansi-fication of source is a good idea, and many commits have been made along those lines in the last few months. I'm pretty sure the consensus is that it's also a good idea to remove 'register' references, generally done as a separate commit. That way it's a little easier to test that no bugs are introduced by the ansi-fication. >A certain eager contributor would like to do a general sweep >through kern/* to remove these antiquities. However, with all the SMPng and other kernel work going on, it probably would not be a good idea to go running around changing those particular source files. Ansi-fication is a "good thing", but it is not a high-priority change to make. It is not a "good thing" if doing this will disrupt other work which is actively going on in the same source files. You'd need to check on a file-by-file basis to see if anyone's working on it, instead of trying for a general sweep through all the files. Note that I don't work on the kern files, so the above is just my own opinion. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed May 1 19:19: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 617D837B405 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 19:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g422Ieb5059121; Wed, 1 May 2002 22:18:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 22:18:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deperlifying sockstat(1) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2 May 2002, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > I'm working on a C version of sockstat(1), and to complete it I need to > do nasty stuff like using libkvm and defining _KERNEL before including > some headers (see fstat). I'm starting to think that it would be easier > to just make a kern.sockstat sysctl node, and make sockstat(1) a > #!/bin/sh wrapper around sysctl(8). Ideas? I'd love it if neither netstat nor sockstat required privilege to run, and could extract it all from sysctl. If you do that, make sure you call appropriate socket visibility hooks in the sysctl export so that it DTRT for jail, MAC, etc. Eliminating setgid kmem even more will continue to markedly improve the security of FreeBSD 5.0... I tweaked a couple out, and Thomas Moestl did a large chunk of the remainder, but there are still some that are left. In particular fixing systat would be highly desirable, as it does a fair amount of I/O. BTW, your wrapper for the sysctl might have to be a C wrapper so it has easier access to getpw*() and getgr*() in a NIS-happy way. My recollection was that sockstat relied on the results of database lookups to generate nicer output, and it would be a shame to lose that. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed May 1 19:22:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4DBD37B419 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 19:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g422MIb5059438; Wed, 1 May 2002 22:22:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 22:22:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deperlifying sockstat(1) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 1 May 2002, Robert Watson wrote: > I'd love it if neither netstat nor sockstat required privilege to run, > and could extract it all from sysctl. If you do that, make sure you > call appropriate socket visibility hooks in the sysctl export so that it > DTRT for jail, MAC, etc. Eliminating setgid kmem even more will > continue to markedly improve the security of FreeBSD 5.0... I tweaked a > couple out, and Thomas Moestl did a large chunk of the remainder, but > there are still some that are left. In particular fixing systat would > be highly desirable, as it does a fair amount of I/O. FWIW, reviewing the binaries on my system, systat is no longer setgid. Thomas got it already. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed May 1 22: 2:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C7C637B417 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 22:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g4252TqE076798; Thu, 2 May 2002 07:02:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: deperlifying sockstat(1) In-Reply-To: Your message of "02 May 2002 00:54:29 +0200." Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 07:02:29 +0200 Message-ID: <76797.1020315749@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message , Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: >I'm working on a C version of sockstat(1), and to complete it I need >to do nasty stuff like using libkvm and defining _KERNEL before >including some headers (see fstat). I'm starting to think that it >would be easier to just make a kern.sockstat sysctl node, and make >sockstat(1) a #!/bin/sh wrapper around sysctl(8). Ideas? sysctl is way better than libkvm because it provides a chance for presentation. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed May 1 22:20:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C350737B404 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 22:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020502052007.JBTX9799.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Thu, 2 May 2002 05:20:07 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA75531; Wed, 1 May 2002 22:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 22:15:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: deperlifying sockstat(1) In-Reply-To: <76797.1020315749@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 2 May 2002, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message , Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > >I'm working on a C version of sockstat(1), and to complete it I need > >to do nasty stuff like using libkvm and defining _KERNEL before > >including some headers (see fstat). I'm starting to think that it > >would be easier to just make a kern.sockstat sysctl node, and make > >sockstat(1) a #!/bin/sh wrapper around sysctl(8). Ideas? > > sysctl is way better than libkvm because it provides a chance > for presentation. unless sockstat gets a -N -M capacity such as teh other similar programs.. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed May 1 22:23:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB76637B419 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 22:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g425MkqE077485; Thu, 2 May 2002 07:22:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Julian Elischer Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: deperlifying sockstat(1) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 01 May 2002 22:15:08 PDT." Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 07:22:46 +0200 Message-ID: <77484.1020316966@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message , Ju lian Elischer writes: >> In message , Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: >> >I'm working on a C version of sockstat(1), and to complete it I need >> >to do nasty stuff like using libkvm and defining _KERNEL before >> >including some headers (see fstat). I'm starting to think that it >> >would be easier to just make a kern.sockstat sysctl node, and make >> >sockstat(1) a #!/bin/sh wrapper around sysctl(8). Ideas? >> >> sysctl is way better than libkvm because it provides a chance >> for presentation. > >unless sockstat gets a -N -M capacity such as teh other similar programs.. The ratio of -N -M use to normal use is so low that it is no justification for creating a setuid program for the normal case. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 0: 0:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1729D37B400; Thu, 2 May 2002 00:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0052.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.52] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 173AZy-0002pK-00; Thu, 02 May 2002 00:00:38 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD0E3F7.5164B5EF@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 00:00:07 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Jeff Roberson , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Removal of register && K&R function decl. References: <20020501193212.C9763-100000@mail.chesapeake.net> <20020502001646.GL98487@elvis.mu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Alfred Perlstein writes: > > Please don't ansify functions, some people prefer the old style. > > Last time this came up, the consensus was that ANSIfication was > permitted. I thought that the consensus was to "vote with NetBSD and OpenBSD" on a case-by-case basis to reduce the gratuitous diffs? I know the consensus was to get rid of __P, so that header declarations were prototypes. But that doesn't really translate to changing all the code everywhere to use prototypes in actual function declarations. If NetBSD and OpenBSD have changed it, then as long as the changes are whitespace equal to them, I personally would have no problem with it; K&R compilation was already broken when __P() was ripped out. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 0: 3:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5017837B416; Thu, 2 May 2002 00:03:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0052.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.52] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 173AcT-0004CE-00; Thu, 02 May 2002 00:03:13 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD0E492.919B1B9D@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 00:02:42 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Jeff Roberson , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Removal of register && K&R function decl. References: <20020501193212.C9763-100000@mail.chesapeake.net> <20020502001646.GL98487@elvis.mu.org> <20020502004526.GM98487@elvis.mu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > We also have KSE and SMPng work to do. Also ANSIfication makes the > code look terrible when there's more than 3 arguments. Note(The, Normal, Thing, To, Do, In, That, Case) Note(Is, To, Declare, Things, This, Way) ...thus making the ANSI declarations look more like K&R declarations. 8-) 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 5:57:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.nsu.ru (mx.nsu.ru [193.124.215.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAC8D37B416; Thu, 2 May 2002 05:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from drweb by mail.nsu.ru with drweb-scanned (Exim 3.20 #1) id 173G9a-0005Xr-00; Thu, 02 May 2002 19:57:46 +0700 Received: from regency.nsu.ru ([193.124.210.26]) by mail.nsu.ru with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 173G9Z-0005XR-00; Thu, 02 May 2002 19:57:45 +0700 Received: (from danfe@localhost) by regency.nsu.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g42Cw4V42927; Thu, 2 May 2002 19:58:04 +0700 (NOVST) (envelope-from danfe) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 19:58:04 +0700 From: Alexey Dokuchaev To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Jeff Roberson , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Removal of register && K&R function decl. Message-ID: <20020502195804.A30954@regency.nsu.ru> References: <20020501193212.C9763-100000@mail.chesapeake.net> <20020502001646.GL98487@elvis.mu.org> <20020502004526.GM98487@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020502004526.GM98487@elvis.mu.org>; from bright@mu.org on Wed, May 01, 2002 at 05:45:26PM -0700 X-Envelope-To: arch@freebsd.org, jeff@freebsd.org, des@ofug.org, bright@mu.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 01, 2002 at 05:45:26PM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [020501 17:35] wrote: > > Alfred Perlstein writes: > > > Please don't ansify functions, some people prefer the old style. > > > > Last time this came up, the consensus was that ANSIfication was > > permitted. > > We also have KSE and SMPng work to do. Also ANSIfication makes the > code look terrible when there's more than 3 arguments. Not to mention, this "old style" (K&R) gives code that special *BSD look we all love ;-) ./danfe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 10:44:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au (mailman.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E2237B41B for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 10:44:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bde.zeta.org.au (bde.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.102]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA06259; Fri, 3 May 2002 03:43:52 +1000 Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 03:45:22 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-X-Sender: bde@gamplex.bde.org To: Julian Elischer Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Subject: Re: deperlifying sockstat(1) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020503034140.C4801-100000@gamplex.bde.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 1 May 2002, Julian Elischer wrote: > On Thu, 2 May 2002, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > In message , Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > >I'm working on a C version of sockstat(1), and to complete it I need > > >to do nasty stuff like using libkvm and defining _KERNEL before > > >including some headers (see fstat). I'm starting to think that it > > >would be easier to just make a kern.sockstat sysctl node, and make > > >sockstat(1) a #!/bin/sh wrapper around sysctl(8). Ideas? > > > > sysctl is way better than libkvm because it provides a chance > > for presentation. > > unless sockstat gets a -N -M capacity such as teh other similar programs.. Who uses this? No one complained when it was broken for vmstat -m. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 11: 3:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail12.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 787D937B405 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 11:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 8828 invoked from network); 2 May 2002 18:03:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail12.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 2 May 2002 18:03:32 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g42I3UF08448 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 14:03:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 14:02:29 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: savcore dump names? Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So what happened to the request that savecore(8) go back to using sensible, intuitive names instead of brain-damaged ones? -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 11:37:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail-blue.research.att.com (H-135-207-30-102.research.att.com [135.207.30.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C18837B404; Thu, 2 May 2002 11:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alliance.research.att.com (alliance.research.att.com [135.207.26.26]) by mail-blue.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 172F94CEEE; Thu, 2 May 2002 14:37:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from windsor.research.att.com (windsor.research.att.com [135.207.26.46]) by alliance.research.att.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA29258; Thu, 2 May 2002 14:37:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fenner Received: (from fenner@localhost) by windsor.research.att.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.5) id LAA21572; Thu, 2 May 2002 11:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200205021837.LAA21572@windsor.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: jhb@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:37:39 -0700 Versions: dmail (solaris) 2.4/makemail 2.9b Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Other useful pieces of functionality that savecore lost: - The ability to not save a dump if: - It would completely fill up the disk (and warn if it would cause disk usage to go above 100%) - It would exceed the administrator's configured free space (i.e. /var/crash/minfree) - Logging to syslog; errors and messages from the new savecore are likely to get lost. I liked having things like Feb 11 23:19:45 stash savecore: reboot after panic: bremfree: bp 0xc302523c not locked Feb 11 23:19:46 stash savecore: no dump, not enough free space on device (86040 available, need 102328) in /var/log/messages. There was a patch to restore the "vmcore.N" functionality posted to -current on April 18th, and a couple of followups. I haven't tried it yet since the other two lost features are much more important to me. Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 13:34:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B003137B48A; Thu, 2 May 2002 13:34:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g42KYBbs043010; Thu, 2 May 2002 13:34:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g42KWueF040391; Thu, 2 May 2002 13:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 13:32:56 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: John Baldwin Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: savcore dump names? Message-ID: <20020502133256.A40128@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Mail-Followup-To: arch@freebsd.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from jhb@FreeBSD.org on Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:02:29PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:02:29PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > So what happened to the request that savecore(8) go back to using > sensible, intuitive names instead of brain-damaged ones? The committer that took that feature away isn't interested in seeing things through to the end. Another reason we need an owner of each thing in the tree. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 14: 7:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031BB37B419; Thu, 2 May 2002 14:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id CF2215348; Thu, 2 May 2002 23:07:13 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Bill Fenner Cc: jhb@FreeBSD.ORG, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? References: <200205021837.LAA21572@windsor.research.att.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 02 May 2002 23:07:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: <200205021837.LAA21572@windsor.research.att.com> Message-ID: Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fenner writes: > - The ability to not save a dump if: > - It would completely fill up the disk (and warn if it would cause disk > usage to go above 100%) > - It would exceed the administrator's configured free space (i.e. > /var/crash/minfree) > - Logging to syslog; errors and messages from the new savecore > are likely to get lost. I liked having things like - Writing sparse files (you think I *enjoy* 640-meg core dumps?) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 14:13:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D91837B400; Thu, 2 May 2002 14:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g42LD5bs043677; Thu, 2 May 2002 14:13:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g42LBoiH043584; Thu, 2 May 2002 14:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:11:50 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Jeff Roberson Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Removal of register && K&R function decl. Message-ID: <20020502141150.B40128@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: arch@freebsd.org Mail-Followup-To: David O'Brien , Jeff Roberson , arch@freebsd.org References: <20020501193212.C9763-100000@mail.chesapeake.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020501193212.C9763-100000@mail.chesapeake.net>; from jeff@freebsd.org on Wed, May 01, 2002 at 07:39:37PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 01, 2002 at 07:39:37PM -0400, Jeff Roberson wrote: > What is the policy on commits soley to remove the register keyword, I purposefully have not touched 'register' in the kernel as some felt it still had a use there. Do we want it removed? > as well as ansification of functions? You are free to do so -- BUT PLEASE do it by committing the ANSIfication and ONLY THE ANSIfication in a separate commit from anything else. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 14:16:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2CEE37B41A; Thu, 2 May 2002 14:16:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0524.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.194.14] helo=mindspring.com) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 173Nw9-0003cm-00; Thu, 02 May 2002 14:16:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD1AC8D.25458679@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 14:15:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: arch@FreeBSD.org Cc: John Baldwin Subject: Re: savcore dump names? References: <20020502133256.A40128@dragon.nuxi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David O'Brien wrote: > On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:02:29PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > So what happened to the request that savecore(8) go back to using > > sensible, intuitive names instead of brain-damaged ones? > > The committer that took that feature away isn't interested in seeing > things through to the end. > > Another reason we need an owner of each thing in the tree. So that if they get hit by a bus, we're screwed for all time? So that if anyone wants to make a change, and there's no way the owner can pee on it to make it smell like them, the change doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of making it in? It's a really *bad* idea to have things set up so that people are so emotionally invested in their code -- or the status quo -- that they can't see anything else. Not to harp on you in particular, but your statement about "isn't interested in seeing things through" is really emotionally charged, and is exactly the wrong sort of thing. The ideal gatekeeper for any code is someone who doesn't even use the code, or is a user, not a coder, for it. Then you will get decisions based on logic rather than emotion. I think the obvious thing to do is to wait a while for the code to be completed, and then time out and back out the changes, and let them be committed again later, only when they are complete (the original committer having proven that they aren't interested in completing the project in a timely fashion, and the project proving that it's unwilling to tolerate sustained brokeneness). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 14:40:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65CF937B417; Thu, 2 May 2002 14:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g42LeMbs044101; Thu, 2 May 2002 14:40:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g42Ld6Mf044093; Thu, 2 May 2002 14:39:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:39:06 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Terry Lambert Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, John Baldwin Subject: Re: savcore dump names? Message-ID: <20020502143906.C40128@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Mail-Followup-To: arch@freebsd.org References: <20020502133256.A40128@dragon.nuxi.com> <3CD1AC8D.25458679@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3CD1AC8D.25458679@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:15:57PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:15:57PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > David O'Brien wrote: > > On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:02:29PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > > So what happened to the request that savecore(8) go back to using > > > sensible, intuitive names instead of brain-damaged ones? > > > > The committer that took that feature away isn't interested in seeing > > things through to the end. > > > > Another reason we need an owner of each thing in the tree. > > So that if they get hit by a bus, we're screwed for all time? No Terry, a new "owner" would pop up. I know the strong down sides to what I said -- I also think people need to consider the strong downside with our anarchy. > Not to harp on you in particular, but your statement about > "isn't interested in seeing things through" is really > emotionally charged, and is exactly the wrong sort of thing. It is emotionally charged? It is simple fact. > I think the obvious thing to do is to wait a while for the > code to be completed, and then time out and back out the > changes, and let them be committed again later, only when they > are complete You don't seem quite up on the savecore(8) changes. Please go look at the logs -- we cannot simply back out rev 1.51. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 14:42:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7388E37B43D; Thu, 2 May 2002 14:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g42Lg3Q4004332; Thu, 2 May 2002 23:42:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Terry Lambert , John Baldwin Subject: Re: savcore dump names? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 02 May 2002 14:39:06 PDT." <20020502143906.C40128@dragon.nuxi.com> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 23:42:03 +0200 Message-ID: <4331.1020375723@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20020502143906.C40128@dragon.nuxi.com>, "David O'Brien" writes: >On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:15:57PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> David O'Brien wrote: >> > On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:02:29PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: >> > > So what happened to the request that savecore(8) go back to using >> > > sensible, intuitive names instead of brain-damaged ones? >> > >> > The committer that took that feature away isn't interested in seeing >> > things through to the end. >> > >> > Another reason we need an owner of each thing in the tree. >> >> So that if they get hit by a bus, we're screwed for all time? > >No Terry, a new "owner" would pop up. Obviously you theory either contradicts the ad-hominen attack above or fails to hold water altogether because I said clearly from the start that as far as savecore was concerned, people should consider me run over by a bus. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 15: 7:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9489837B417; Thu, 2 May 2002 15:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0524.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.194.14] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 173OjB-0005Pg-00; Thu, 02 May 2002 15:07:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD1B86C.79BC98F3@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 15:06:36 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG, John Baldwin Subject: Re: savcore dump names? References: <4331.1020375723@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >> So that if they get hit by a bus, we're screwed for all time? > > > >No Terry, a new "owner" would pop up. > > Obviously you theory either contradicts the ad-hominen attack above > or fails to hold water altogether because I said clearly from the > start that as far as savecore was concerned, people should consider > me run over by a bus. I picked my analogy on purpose. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 15:11:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 116CD37B416; Thu, 2 May 2002 15:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0524.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.194.14] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 173OnA-0002zX-00; Thu, 02 May 2002 15:11:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD1B963.2229FEA3@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 15:10:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: arch@FreeBSD.org Cc: John Baldwin Subject: Re: savcore dump names? References: <20020502133256.A40128@dragon.nuxi.com> <3CD1AC8D.25458679@mindspring.com> <20020502143906.C40128@dragon.nuxi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David O'Brien wrote: > > I think the obvious thing to do is to wait a while for the > > code to be completed, and then time out and back out the > > changes, and let them be committed again later, only when they > > are complete > > You don't seem quite up on the savecore(8) changes. Please go look at > the logs -- we cannot simply back out rev 1.51. Here is the diff to back out to version 1.50. 8-). http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sbin/savecore/savecore.c.diff?r1=text&tr1=1.50&r2=text&tr2=1.57 -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 15:24:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail14.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C39F37B425 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 15:23:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 3223 invoked from network); 2 May 2002 22:23:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail14.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 2 May 2002 22:23:43 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g42MNgF09221; Thu, 2 May 2002 18:23:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4331.1020375723@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 18:23:36 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Poul-Henning Kamp Subject: Re: savcore dump names? Cc: Terry Lambert , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 02-May-2002 Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <20020502143906.C40128@dragon.nuxi.com>, "David O'Brien" writes: >>On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:15:57PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >>> David O'Brien wrote: >>> > On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:02:29PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: >>> > > So what happened to the request that savecore(8) go back to using >>> > > sensible, intuitive names instead of brain-damaged ones? >>> > >>> > The committer that took that feature away isn't interested in seeing >>> > things through to the end. >>> > >>> > Another reason we need an owner of each thing in the tree. >>> >>> So that if they get hit by a bus, we're screwed for all time? >> >>No Terry, a new "owner" would pop up. > > Obviously you theory either contradicts the ad-hominen attack above > or fails to hold water altogether because I said clearly from the > start that as far as savecore was concerned, people should consider > me run over by a bus. So it is acceptable to come in and break existing functionality because you don't feel like finishing the job? I mean, come on, you had to do the work to change the code to make it break existing functionality. It would have been _less_ work to have left the code that respected minfree, etc. and kept the filenames the same as it is. IMO, it is unacceptable to come in and break stuff and then say it's not your problem to fix it. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 15:24:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail15.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.215]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E37F37B41F for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 15:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 16799 invoked from network); 2 May 2002 22:23:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail15.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 2 May 2002 22:23:49 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g42MNmF09225; Thu, 2 May 2002 18:23:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3CD1B963.2229FEA3@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 18:23:43 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: savcore dump names? Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 02-May-2002 Terry Lambert wrote: > David O'Brien wrote: >> > I think the obvious thing to do is to wait a while for the >> > code to be completed, and then time out and back out the >> > changes, and let them be committed again later, only when they >> > are complete >> >> You don't seem quite up on the savecore(8) changes. Please go look at >> the logs -- we cannot simply back out rev 1.51. > > Here is the diff to back out to version 1.50. > > 8-). Erm, in case you didn't notice, the format of dumps kind of changed a bit. You can't just back out one piece at a time, Terry. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 16: 9:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EB8737B417; Thu, 2 May 2002 16:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0524.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.194.14] helo=mindspring.com) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 173Php-0007V1-00; Thu, 02 May 2002 16:09:46 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD1C71C.D919CFEA@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:09:16 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: savcore dump names? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Baldwin wrote: > Erm, in case you didn't notice, the format of dumps kind of changed a bit. > You can't just back out one piece at a time, Terry. This was really meant for someone who was upset enough that they were willing to rever the dump format changes at the same time... I was doing this: 8^p. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 16:10:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B7A437B41B; Thu, 2 May 2002 16:10:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g42NAKb4058677; Thu, 2 May 2002 19:10:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from arr@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (arr@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) with SMTP id g42NAJAi058674; Thu, 2 May 2002 19:10:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: arr owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 19:10:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andrew R. Reiter" X-Sender: arr@fledge.watson.org To: Terry Lambert Cc: John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: savcore dump names? In-Reply-To: <3CD1C71C.D919CFEA@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 2 May 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: : :This was really meant for someone who was upset enough that :they were willing to rever the dump format changes at the :same time... : :I was doing this: 8^p. : Damn, then why post at all? That's crap. -- Andrew R. Reiter arr@watson.org arr@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 16:23:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D1337B417; Thu, 2 May 2002 16:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0524.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.194.14] helo=mindspring.com) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 173Pv1-0001gE-00; Thu, 02 May 2002 16:23:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD1CA4D.31AE5135@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:22:53 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Andrew R. Reiter" Cc: John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: savcore dump names? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Andrew R. Reiter" wrote: > On Thu, 2 May 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > :This was really meant for someone who was upset enough that > :they were willing to revert the dump format changes at the > :same time... > : > :I was doing this: 8^p. > > Damn, then why post at all? That's crap. If you want, I can find the URL references to back out all the corresponding changes; I think it would piss Marcel off, if anyone committed them, though. If anyone is the current maitainer, it's Marcel. My personal take on "the MD5 naming problem" is: ls -lt | more You only ever really care about the datestamp, anyway, and anyone who keeps more than one dump around is either crazy, or has too many things going on at once. Obviously, there are people who disagree with this strongly enough that they're willing to flame -arch about it (and have). So: What does everyone want done so badly that they are willing to break off Poul's arm and try to beat him to death with the wet end? "Put it back" is not an acceptable answer, since it doesn't provide a forward path by describing the "correct behavior" ("the way it was" is not an adequate behavioural specification). If you want "put it back", then you can easily do that yourself with the resources I pointed at. If people could say what they want, rather than bitching about what they don't want, it'd be a heck of a lot more likely to result in patches (IMO). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 16:56:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail-blue.research.att.com (mail-blue.research.att.com [135.207.30.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29F6437B417 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 16:56:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alliance.research.att.com (alliance.research.att.com [135.207.26.26]) by mail-blue.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FD3E4CE1E; Thu, 2 May 2002 19:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from windsor.research.att.com (windsor.research.att.com [135.207.26.46]) by alliance.research.att.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02718; Thu, 2 May 2002 19:56:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fenner Received: (from fenner@localhost) by windsor.research.att.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.5) id QAA25851; Thu, 2 May 2002 16:56:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200205022356.QAA25851@windsor.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk Subject: Re: savcore dump names? Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:56:43 -0700 Versions: dmail (solaris) 2.4/makemail 2.9b Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >...I said clearly from the >start that as far as savecore was concerned, people should consider >me run over by a bus. I think that's what upset me most about these changes. From my vantage point, you said "I am going to take away these pieces of functionality; if they are important enough someone else will reimplement them and anyone who needs them in the meantime is screwed." That's not a good way for the project to work. Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 17:24:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wemm.org (12-232-135-171.client.attbi.com [12.232.135.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1267637B495; Thu, 2 May 2002 17:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from overcee.wemm.org (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by fw.wemm.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g430Oa407908; Thu, 2 May 2002 17:24:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.wemm.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98DA538FD; Thu, 2 May 2002 17:24:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: "Andrew R. Reiter" Cc: Terry Lambert , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 17:24:36 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20020503002436.98DA538FD@overcee.wemm.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Andrew R. Reiter" wrote: > On Thu, 2 May 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > > : > :This was really meant for someone who was upset enough that > :they were willing to rever the dump format changes at the > :same time... > : > :I was doing this: 8^p. > : > > Damn, then why post at all? That's crap. Agreed. We have better things to do than sort through intentionally bogus email. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 17:29: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wemm.org (12-232-135-171.client.attbi.com [12.232.135.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C342137B404 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 17:28:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from overcee.wemm.org (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by fw.wemm.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g430Sw407934 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 17:28:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.wemm.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C00338FF; Thu, 2 May 2002 17:28:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Bruce Evans Cc: Julian Elischer , Poul-Henning Kamp , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: deperlifying sockstat(1) In-Reply-To: <20020503034140.C4801-100000@gamplex.bde.org> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 17:28:58 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20020503002858.6C00338FF@overcee.wemm.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bruce Evans wrote: > On Wed, 1 May 2002, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > On Thu, 2 May 2002, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > > In message , Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > > >I'm working on a C version of sockstat(1), and to complete it I need > > > >to do nasty stuff like using libkvm and defining _KERNEL before > > > >including some headers (see fstat). I'm starting to think that it > > > >would be easier to just make a kern.sockstat sysctl node, and make > > > >sockstat(1) a #!/bin/sh wrapper around sysctl(8). Ideas? > > > > > > sysctl is way better than libkvm because it provides a chance > > > for presentation. > > > > unless sockstat gets a -N -M capacity such as teh other similar programs.. > > Who uses this? No one complained when it was broken for vmstat -m. We do (at work). We also backed out the netstat breakage that Garrett committed that broke that functionality too. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 17:33:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wemm.org (12-232-135-171.client.attbi.com [12.232.135.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72FCA37B404 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 17:32:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from overcee.wemm.org (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by fw.wemm.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g430Wt407969 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 17:32:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.wemm.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C5213810; Thu, 2 May 2002 17:32:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Bill Fenner Cc: phk@critter.freebsd.dk, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? In-Reply-To: <200205022356.QAA25851@windsor.research.att.com> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 17:32:55 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20020503003255.0C5213810@overcee.wemm.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fenner wrote: > > >...I said clearly from the > >start that as far as savecore was concerned, people should consider > >me run over by a bus. > > I think that's what upset me most about these changes. > > From my vantage point, you said "I am going to take away these > pieces of functionality; if they are important enough someone else > will reimplement them and anyone who needs them in the meantime is > screwed." > > That's not a good way for the project to work. Better check, he's about to gut functionality from miibus too. Since it doesn't affect common cards, we are not likely to find out if or how badly it breaks things until 5.x gets released. http://phk.freebsd.dk/patch/phy00.patch Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 17:59:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2C9737B404; Thu, 2 May 2002 17:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0034.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.34] helo=mindspring.com) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 173RQM-0001JT-00; Thu, 02 May 2002 17:59:51 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD1E0E4.86406459@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 17:59:16 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Wemm Cc: "Andrew R. Reiter" , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? References: <20020503002436.98DA538FD@overcee.wemm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Wemm wrote: > "Andrew R. Reiter" wrote: > > On Thu, 2 May 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > > :I was doing this: 8^p. > > > > Damn, then why post at all? That's crap. > > Agreed. We have better things to do than sort through intentionally bogus > email. So, just to recap and document for posterity: o Directly complaining about Poul, and doing nothing to change the code, other than trying to browbeat Poul into it: o Good o Inside the list charter o Indirectly complaining about people complaining about Poul by documenting how to trivially undo what Poul did, and thus implicitly suggesting backing out "undesirable changes" instead of simply bitching about them: o Bogus o Outside the list charter Correct? I frequently disagree with Poul's methods and design decisions, but that's no reason for personal attacks, or I'd be posting them myself. --- So... Can I ask AGAIN that the people who have a problem with the MD5 changes PLEASE describe acceptable-to-them savecore(8) behaviour, other than just saying "put it back"? Saying "the way it was" is not a design specification. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 18:24:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 572C337B41B; Thu, 2 May 2002 18:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1098) id 0E874AE163; Thu, 2 May 2002 18:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:24:07 -0700 From: Bill Fumerola To: Terry Lambert Cc: Peter Wemm , "Andrew R. Reiter" , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? Message-ID: <20020503012406.GL688@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020503002436.98DA538FD@overcee.wemm.org> <3CD1E0E4.86406459@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3CD1E0E4.86406459@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.5-MUORG-20020423 i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 05:59:16PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Can I ask AGAIN that the people who have a problem with the MD5 > changes PLEASE describe acceptable-to-them savecore(8) behaviour, > other than just saying "put it back"? Saying "the way it was" is > not a design specification. multiple people have already iterated their exact problems with the recent changed behavior. perhaps your mail filters are faulty (or maybe you can't write 10 paragraph emails all day and keep up with the mail volume). for your convienence, i've attached some URLs. http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=72271+0+current/freebsd-arch http://docs.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=76958+0+current/freebsd-arch http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=83960+0+archive/2002/cvs-all/20020421.cvs-all http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=52063+0+archive/2002/cvs-all/20020421.cvs-all -- - bill fumerola / fumerola@yahoo-inc.com / billf@FreeBSD.org / billf@mu.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 18:34:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E518937B41C; Thu, 2 May 2002 18:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0034.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.34] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 173Ry4-0001JJ-00; Thu, 02 May 2002 18:34:40 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD1E90C.2CC55AED@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 18:34:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Peter Wemm , "Andrew R. Reiter" , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? References: <20020503002436.98DA538FD@overcee.wemm.org> <3CD1E0E4.86406459@mindspring.com> <20020503012406.GL688@elvis.mu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 05:59:16PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Can I ask AGAIN that the people who have a problem with the MD5 > > changes PLEASE describe acceptable-to-them savecore(8) behaviour, > > other than just saying "put it back"? Saying "the way it was" is > > not a design specification. > > multiple people have already iterated their exact problems with the > recent changed behavior. perhaps your mail filters are faulty (or maybe > you can't write 10 paragraph emails all day and keep up with the mail > volume). > > for your convienence, i've attached some URLs. > > http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=72271+0+current/freebsd-arch I didn't see this one. > http://docs.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=76958+0+current/freebsd-arch I *did* see this one. The quoting made it look like this was a wishlist, not a list of lost functionality. 8-(. Yes, this looks bad. > http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=83960+0+archive/2002/cvs-all/20020421.cvs-all > http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=52063+0+archive/2002/cvs-all/20020421.cvs-all Not a mailing list I generally follow; when I do pull down a digest, I usually filter out discussions that happen on the list. This seems taken care of by Steve Kargyl's patch in the second message, unless you are actually suggesting that the -N and -z be reimplemented? Yeah, I agree that lost functionality is bad. Why not revert the changes, unless there's a commitment to bring the new code back up to snuff with the old code? The dump file format argument is bogus; it can be reverted as well. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 18:43: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E231B37B43D for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 18:42:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0034.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.34] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 173S5q-0003lH-00; Thu, 02 May 2002 18:42:42 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD1EAEE.D3E8DC94@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 18:42:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Wemm Cc: Bill Fenner , phk@critter.freebsd.dk, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PHY patch, please test. (was Re: savcore dump names?) References: <20020503003255.0C5213810@overcee.wemm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG OK, this is a seperate thread... It probably belonged here, and not on -current, in the first place. Peter Wemm wrote: > Better check, he's about to gut functionality from miibus too. Since it > doesn't affect common cards, we are not likely to find out if or how badly > it breaks things until 5.x gets released. > > http://phk.freebsd.dk/patch/phy00.patch You commented on this already on the -current list: ] So, in a nutshell, you removed the ability for the card driver to request ] the phy driver to wait for negotiation to complete, and removed the ] interlock that prevents duplicate negotiation requests when the negotiation ] took longer than the allotted time? To which he replied "yes and yes". This question by you, and his response, sent up the red flags for me. I saw your initial objections to him committing the code (above), and I agreed with them. However, he made the point that there are a number of very long delays (500ms) which will occur at link-up time. I really agree with these being bogus, so if he can remove them, and is willing to do the work, it's a good thing. These are half second stalls ... enough to trigger an IP takeover by an IP redundancy protocol, which would be incredibly degenerate behaviour. He also made the point that: | There is no such thing as duplicate autoneg requests, if you send a | new one (like we do after the 5 or 10 sec timeout) the negotiation | starts over. I don't know if this point is valid, without further discussion' this fails to address his "shoulds"... the fact is that, "should" or not, until the drivers are fixed to be able to work that way, ripping out the working code is a bad idea. His: | And as you said yourself: there is additional NEWBUS'ing to be | done in this area. [ ... ] | Volounteers welcome. Was pretty omenous, in this context. (See? I basically agree with you.) BUT... you didn't respond to his response. You just let it sit there. This implied to me that he had satisfied you, and that if I had complained that it didn't satisfy me, I'd have both of you on my case about it. This posting is actually the first indication of your continued objection to the commit of the code, as far as I can see from the list archives and my -current inbox. It wasn't really clear to me whether or not he was proposing to implement the "much more capable state engine", as a response to your complaint, or whether he was leaving it as "an exercise for the student". Do you intend to respond to his posting, in context, on the -current list, or do you just intend to complain about the patches, using them as examples of "bad things Poul has done or intends to do"? If you want examples of "bad things Poul has done", IMO, well, I have a long list, and Julian has a long list, and I'm sure we can all complain about each other for a very long time. Personally, I would really *hate* for his miibus changes to go in without answering your objections, but leaving your objections hanging there with his reasponse going unanswered is just asking for them to be committed. He has some valid points, but I'm not sure that his approach of breaking it and letting people who care about it pick up the pieces will work. It certainly didn't when the X.25 and ISODE code was broken under similar circumstances by partial routing code changes, back in the mid 1990's. If this is a policy issue, then make it a policy issue, but it's going to have to result in a policy that applies equally to everyone. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 19: 3:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.acns.ab.ca (mail.acns.ab.ca [142.179.151.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B5237B400; Thu, 2 May 2002 19:03:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colnta.acns.ab.ca (colnta.acns.ab.ca [192.168.1.2]) by mail.acns.ab.ca (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g4323NTL018192; Thu, 2 May 2002 20:03:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from davidc@colnta.acns.ab.ca) Received: from colnta.acns.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by colnta.acns.ab.ca (8.12.2/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g4323NvO080115; Thu, 2 May 2002 20:03:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from davidc@colnta.acns.ab.ca) Received: (from davidc@localhost) by colnta.acns.ab.ca (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g4323NDS080114; Thu, 2 May 2002 20:03:23 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 20:03:23 -0600 From: Chad David To: John Baldwin Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? Message-ID: <20020502200323.A80101@colnta.acns.ab.ca> Mail-Followup-To: John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from jhb@FreeBSD.ORG on Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:02:29PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:02:29PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > So what happened to the request that savecore(8) go back to using > sensible, intuitive names instead of brain-damaged ones? I have patches for this and other things ready to go in, I just haven't had time to do it... I'll try and get it done tonight. -- Chad David davidc@acns.ab.ca www.FreeBSD.org davidc@freebsd.org ACNS Inc. Calgary, Alberta Canada Fourthly, The constant breeders, beside the gain of eight shillings sterling per annum by the sale of their children, will be rid of the charge of maintaining them after the first year. - Johnathan Swift To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 19:10:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.acns.ab.ca (mail.acns.ab.ca [142.179.151.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8440137B416; Thu, 2 May 2002 19:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colnta.acns.ab.ca (colnta.acns.ab.ca [192.168.1.2]) by mail.acns.ab.ca (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g432AMTL018213; Thu, 2 May 2002 20:10:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from davidc@colnta.acns.ab.ca) Received: from colnta.acns.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by colnta.acns.ab.ca (8.12.2/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g432AMvO080147; Thu, 2 May 2002 20:10:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from davidc@colnta.acns.ab.ca) Received: (from davidc@localhost) by colnta.acns.ab.ca (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g432AMMs080146; Thu, 2 May 2002 20:10:22 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 20:10:22 -0600 From: Chad David To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Terry Lambert , John Baldwin Subject: Re: savcore dump names? Message-ID: <20020502201022.B80101@colnta.acns.ab.ca> Mail-Followup-To: Poul-Henning Kamp , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Terry Lambert , John Baldwin References: <20020502143906.C40128@dragon.nuxi.com> <4331.1020375723@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <4331.1020375723@critter.freebsd.dk>; from phk@critter.freebsd.dk on Thu, May 02, 2002 at 11:42:03PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 11:42:03PM +0200, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <20020502143906.C40128@dragon.nuxi.com>, "David O'Brien" writes: > >On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:15:57PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > >> David O'Brien wrote: > >> > On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 02:02:29PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > >> > > So what happened to the request that savecore(8) go back to using > >> > > sensible, intuitive names instead of brain-damaged ones? > >> > > >> > The committer that took that feature away isn't interested in seeing > >> > things through to the end. > >> > > >> > Another reason we need an owner of each thing in the tree. > >> > >> So that if they get hit by a bus, we're screwed for all time? > > > >No Terry, a new "owner" would pop up. > > Obviously you theory either contradicts the ad-hominen attack above > or fails to hold water altogether because I said clearly from the > start that as far as savecore was concerned, people should consider > me run over by a bus. No, someone did post patches ... people did respond ... that someone got busy with other things (and when he wasn't busy, was too sick of listening to everybody bitch about things to work on FreeBSD) ... and the commit just hasn't happened yet ... but it will. -- Chad David davidc@acns.ab.ca www.FreeBSD.org davidc@freebsd.org ACNS Inc. Calgary, Alberta Canada Fourthly, The constant breeders, beside the gain of eight shillings sterling per annum by the sale of their children, will be rid of the charge of maintaining them after the first year. - Johnathan Swift To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 19:44:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54AF137B417 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 19:44:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g432hmb5060393; Thu, 2 May 2002 22:43:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 22:43:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Peter Wemm Cc: Bruce Evans , Julian Elischer , Poul-Henning Kamp , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: deperlifying sockstat(1) In-Reply-To: <20020503002858.6C00338FF@overcee.wemm.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 2 May 2002, Peter Wemm wrote: > > > unless sockstat gets a -N -M capacity such as teh other similar programs.. > > > > Who uses this? No one complained when it was broken for vmstat -m. > > We do (at work). We also backed out the netstat breakage that Garrett > committed that broke that functionality too. For at least some of the prior work in removing use of libkvm, that removal has just been for default operation -- use sysctl if appropriate, and use libkvm if specifically requested and privilege is available, making it work on cores. That will probably be a good strategy as we move forwards. BTW, we've actually now expanded our contract with DES for PAM work to include wandering through the remaining libkvm/setgid-kmem binaries to do this cleanup work, and expose any remaining required data through sysctl, so unless someone feels like duplicating the work, the task is probably claimed. :-) Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 20:45:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 945DA37B41A; Thu, 2 May 2002 20:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g433bU605251; Thu, 2 May 2002 21:37:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g433bUr05961; Thu, 2 May 2002 21:37:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 21:37:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020502.213711.132703888.imp@village.org> To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG, obrien@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: jeff@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Removal of register && K&R function decl. From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20020502141150.B40128@dragon.nuxi.com> References: <20020501193212.C9763-100000@mail.chesapeake.net> <20020502141150.B40128@dragon.nuxi.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: <20020502141150.B40128@dragon.nuxi.com> "David O'Brien" writes: : > as well as ansification of functions? : : You are free to do so -- BUT PLEASE do it by committing the ANSIfication : and ONLY THE ANSIfication in a separate commit from anything else. While I started out not doing this, David convinced me this was a good idea and should be strived for in non-silly cases. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 20:45:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A1B637B404; Thu, 2 May 2002 20:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g433f8605289; Thu, 2 May 2002 21:41:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g433esr05976; Thu, 2 May 2002 21:40:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 21:40:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020502.214036.88733477.imp@village.org> To: jhb@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: phk@critter.freebsd.dk, tlambert2@mindspring.com, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: References: <4331.1020375723@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: John Baldwin writes: : IMO, it is unacceptable to come in and break stuff and then say it's : not your problem to fix it. I'd tend to agree you and terry on this. If this work can't be capped off such that people can use it, then it should be backed out. From the rest of the thread, it looks like there are two complaints here? One that the dump names are now insane, and two that it doesn't work on some systems (eg you can't take a kernel dump on alpha). Is that correct, or am I missing something? Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 21:19:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.208.78.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF16F37B416; Thu, 2 May 2002 21:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g434JDLw023570; Thu, 2 May 2002 21:19:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g434JAYX023569; Thu, 2 May 2002 21:19:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 21:19:10 -0700 From: Steve Kargl To: Terry Lambert Cc: Bill Fumerola , Peter Wemm , "Andrew R. Reiter" , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? Message-ID: <20020502211910.A23535@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <20020503002436.98DA538FD@overcee.wemm.org> <3CD1E0E4.86406459@mindspring.com> <20020503012406.GL688@elvis.mu.org> <3CD1E90C.2CC55AED@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3CD1E90C.2CC55AED@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Thu, May 02, 2002 at 06:34:04PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 06:34:04PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > This seems taken care of by Steve Kargyl's patch in the second > message, unless you are actually suggesting that the -N and -z be > reimplemented? > I was hopeing to stay out this debate, but.... My patch simply updated the manual page to what Poul had left behind after the gutting. The only reason I did this is because I had a core file in swap that I could not clear. The core file was written in the old format and the gutted savecore would not clear it. A day or two later, Marcel implemented sufficient functionality so that I could remove the core file. After Marcel's work someone else, whose name escapes me at this point in time, resurrected the vmcore.# functionality and maybe the minfree functionality. His patches were posted. I believe Alfred commented on the patches, and then no one committed the patches. -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 23: 0:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C293137B416 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 23:00:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020503060033.NCDB5896.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Fri, 3 May 2002 06:00:33 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA80947; Thu, 2 May 2002 22:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 22:59:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Bruce Evans Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: deperlifying sockstat(1) In-Reply-To: <20020503034140.C4801-100000@gamplex.bde.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have used it from time to time with Netstat and fstat to try find which process had the suspect session.. On Fri, 3 May 2002, Bruce Evans wrote: > On Wed, 1 May 2002, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > On Thu, 2 May 2002, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > > In message , Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > > >I'm working on a C version of sockstat(1), and to complete it I need > > > >to do nasty stuff like using libkvm and defining _KERNEL before > > > >including some headers (see fstat). I'm starting to think that it > > > >would be easier to just make a kern.sockstat sysctl node, and make > > > >sockstat(1) a #!/bin/sh wrapper around sysctl(8). Ideas? > > > > > > sysctl is way better than libkvm because it provides a chance > > > for presentation. > > > > unless sockstat gets a -N -M capacity such as teh other similar programs.. > > Who uses this? No one complained when it was broken for vmstat -m. > > Bruce > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 23:11:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C25737B434 for ; Thu, 2 May 2002 23:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g436Apbs048578; Thu, 2 May 2002 23:10:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g4369ZLM048546; Thu, 2 May 2002 23:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 23:09:35 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: "M. Warner Losh" Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? Message-ID: <20020502230935.A48475@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mail-Followup-To: David O'Brien , "M. Warner Losh" , arch@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4331.1020375723@critter.freebsd.dk> <20020502.214036.88733477.imp@village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020502.214036.88733477.imp@village.org>; from imp@village.org on Thu, May 02, 2002 at 09:40:36PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 09:40:36PM -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote: > >From the rest of the thread, it looks like there are two complaints > here? One that the dump names are now insane, and two that it doesn't > work on some systems (eg you can't take a kernel dump on alpha). Is > that correct, or am I missing something? That PHK's behavior with his axe that left the 1/2 dead corpse behind shows poor reguard to our social contract. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu May 2 23:17:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42EB437B41B; Thu, 2 May 2002 23:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0014.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.14] helo=mindspring.com) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 173WO3-0000ZL-00; Thu, 02 May 2002 23:17:47 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD22B6D.10642F73@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 23:17:17 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Kargl Cc: Bill Fumerola , Peter Wemm , "Andrew R. Reiter" , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? References: <20020503002436.98DA538FD@overcee.wemm.org> <3CD1E0E4.86406459@mindspring.com> <20020503012406.GL688@elvis.mu.org> <3CD1E90C.2CC55AED@mindspring.com> <20020502211910.A23535@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steve Kargl wrote: > After Marcel's work someone else, whose name escapes > me at this point in time, resurrected the vmcore.# > functionality and maybe the minfree functionality. > His patches were posted. I believe Alfred commented > on the patches, and then no one committed the patches. Chad David? Maybe commit them? They can't be any further off from the old behaviour after patching than before... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 0:27:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB5AA37B681; Fri, 3 May 2002 00:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g437RCQ4011646; Fri, 3 May 2002 09:27:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: John Baldwin Cc: Terry Lambert , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: savcore dump names? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 02 May 2002 18:23:36 EDT." Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 09:27:12 +0200 Message-ID: <11645.1020410832@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message , John Baldwin writes: >So it is acceptable to come in and break existing functionality because >you don't feel like finishing the job? I mean, come on, you had to do >the work to change the code to make it break existing functionality. >It would have been _less_ work to have left the code that respected >minfree, etc. and kept the filenames the same as it is. > >IMO, it is unacceptable to come in and break stuff and then say it's >not your problem to fix it. Sometimes you have to break the eggs to make an omelette. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 0:30:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8990A37B417 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 00:30:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g437UPQ4011727; Fri, 3 May 2002 09:30:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Peter Wemm Cc: Bill Fenner , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 02 May 2002 17:32:55 PDT." <20020503003255.0C5213810@overcee.wemm.org> Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 09:30:25 +0200 Message-ID: <11726.1020411025@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20020503003255.0C5213810@overcee.wemm.org>, Peter Wemm writes: >Better check, he's about to gut functionality from miibus too. Since it >doesn't affect common cards, we are not likely to find out if or how badly >it breaks things until 5.x gets released. > >http://phk.freebsd.dk/patch/phy00.patch And I have asked people to test the patch and have only received one reply yet which said that it worked on two specific phy's. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 0:50:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3373E37B419; Fri, 3 May 2002 00:50:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g437oEQ4012089; Fri, 3 May 2002 09:50:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: "M. Warner Losh" Cc: jhb@FreeBSD.ORG, tlambert2@mindspring.com, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 02 May 2002 21:40:36 MDT." <20020502.214036.88733477.imp@village.org> Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 09:50:14 +0200 Message-ID: <12088.1020412214@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20020502.214036.88733477.imp@village.org>, "M. Warner Losh" writes: >In message: > John Baldwin writes: >: IMO, it is unacceptable to come in and break stuff and then say it's >: not your problem to fix it. > >I'd tend to agree you and terry on this. If this work can't be capped >off such that people can use it, then it should be backed out. > >>From the rest of the thread, it looks like there are two complaints >here? One that the dump names are now insane, and two that it doesn't >work on some systems (eg you can't take a kernel dump on alpha). Is >that correct, or am I missing something? re 1. That the names are "insane" is a matter of taste, not of functionality. re 2. I have asked for somebody with an alpha to help me but received exactly zero replies. And now, Poul-Hennings perspective: We had a number of diskdrivers which had dump facilities. All of these implemented in the diskdriver a dump method which was only applicable to certain architectures and which in particular were not applicable to sparc64 and ia64. The layout of stuff in the dump on the disk is an obvious MD piece of code that should not live in disk drivers. So I cleaned this up, I changed the driver dump support to be just "write this data on disk" and moved the layout stuff to a MD file in i386 and asked for helpers to get it working on other archs. Peter persuaded me that corrupt and partial dumps were a significant problem, so for that reason and for general multi-arch sanity I added a dump header on the media, which amongst other things record information about the dump so that a MI savecore could pull out the dump without even running on the same kernel or even architecture. Then I wrote a savecore which pulled out a dump that way, and noted that I didn't really have time to do this properly, and would like to get assistance from some anyone interested. One of the first things which happens was that marcel jumps in and implements dump support on ia64. This would not have been possible without my work. Next thing is that DES raises a stink about his uncommitted patches, but lets leave that saga out of the story for now. What happens after that can best be described as "A number of people spend far more time whining and bitching about the userinterface to a trivial user-land program than it would have taken them to implement anything they have whined about and then some". For goodness sake people, savecore is only marginally more complex than hello.c! Several people have submitted patches for it. Why doesn't anybody just commit the shit instead of whining ? All the hypocritical whining about removing things or leaving them half broken coming from people like Terry who talks and talks and talks and talks and talks but never actually _do_ anything can be stuffed up where the sun only shines when you pick strawberries without clothes on: Sometimes a forward stride starts with a backwards step. Remember SMPng ? It started out by totally disabling the spl*() priority protection in the kernel. If people spent more time coding than whining, imagine what we could do. And as for the MII changes: The patch was posted and announced, if you havn't tested it: do so or shut up. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 1: 5:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wemm.org (12-232-135-171.client.attbi.com [12.232.135.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B79A037B400; Fri, 3 May 2002 01:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from overcee.wemm.org (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by fw.wemm.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4385u409130; Fri, 3 May 2002 01:05:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.wemm.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 602B73810; Fri, 3 May 2002 01:05:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: John Baldwin , Terry Lambert , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? In-Reply-To: <11645.1020410832@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 01:05:56 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20020503080556.602B73810@overcee.wemm.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message , John Baldwin writes: > > >So it is acceptable to come in and break existing functionality because > >you don't feel like finishing the job? I mean, come on, you had to do > >the work to change the code to make it break existing functionality. > >It would have been _less_ work to have left the code that respected > >minfree, etc. and kept the filenames the same as it is. > > > >IMO, it is unacceptable to come in and break stuff and then say it's > >not your problem to fix it. > > Sometimes you have to break the eggs to make an omelette. You know, that makes me feel even better about the gutting of the phy stuff. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 1:16:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0771137B400; Fri, 3 May 2002 01:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g438GSQ4012644; Fri, 3 May 2002 10:16:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Peter Wemm Cc: John Baldwin , Terry Lambert , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 03 May 2002 01:05:56 PDT." <20020503080556.602B73810@overcee.wemm.org> Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 10:16:28 +0200 Message-ID: <12643.1020413788@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20020503080556.602B73810@overcee.wemm.org>, Peter Wemm writes: >Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >> Sometimes you have to break the eggs to make an omelette. > >You know, that makes me feel even better about the gutting of the phy stuff. Have you tested the patch I posted ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 2:24:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [65.88.244.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2468637B416; Fri, 3 May 2002 02:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 66-75-153-50.san.rr.com ([66.75.153.50] helo=softweyr.com) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 173ZHC-0005qh-00; Fri, 03 May 2002 03:22:54 -0600 Message-ID: <3CD24946.8F3CB0A4@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 02:24:38 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: John Baldwin , Terry Lambert , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: savcore dump names? References: <11645.1020410832@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > In message , John Baldwin writes: > > >So it is acceptable to come in and break existing functionality because > >you don't feel like finishing the job? I mean, come on, you had to do > >the work to change the code to make it break existing functionality. > >It would have been _less_ work to have left the code that respected > >minfree, etc. and kept the filenames the same as it is. > > > >IMO, it is unacceptable to come in and break stuff and then say it's > >not your problem to fix it. > > Sometimes you have to break the eggs to make an omelette. But killing the hens rarely helps. If you're actually admitting to leaving the job half-done, PHK, you should immediately commit to finishing it. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 2:41:52 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BC2B37B417; Fri, 3 May 2002 02:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g439fGQ4013739; Fri, 3 May 2002 11:41:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Wes Peters Cc: John Baldwin , Terry Lambert , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: savcore dump names? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 03 May 2002 02:24:38 MDT." <3CD24946.8F3CB0A4@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 11:41:16 +0200 Message-ID: <13738.1020418876@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <3CD24946.8F3CB0A4@softweyr.com>, Wes Peters writes: >> Sometimes you have to break the eggs to make an omelette. > >But killing the hens rarely helps. > >If you're actually admitting to leaving the job half-done, PHK, you should >immediately commit to finishing it. I will - as soon as the replacement for USERCONFIG is finished by the person who drove a wooden stake through its hearth (God bless him!). Get the irony ? Let me spell it out: When peter breaks things it's ok, when I clean up after him it is reason for war. Didn't somebody say that a patch had already been submitted against savecore to fix these things ? Why havn't anybody committed that patch then ? This is blown completely out of proportion by now. And for reasons I have yet to fathom, Peter suddenly drags a completely unrelated patch (MII) into the picture, and rather than do the sensible thing (ie: test the patch or reply to my email where I answered his questions) he goes "That makes me feel really warm and cozy" with absolutely no facts or technical backing. If Peter or anybody else has any concerns about the patch, then please SAY what these concerns are, or optionally: test the patch and see for yourself if your concerns are founded or unfounded. If I weren't in such a good mood, I would claim that this entire thing is because some of the usual suspects once again focus on beating up me rather than getting actual work done (This accusation doesn't apply to Terry, of course since he is exempt from doing any work). But I am in a good mood so I wont. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 2:44:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F10CE37B417 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 02:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g439hrQ4013811 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 11:43:53 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: syscall changes to deal with 32->64 changes. From: Poul-Henning Kamp Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 11:43:53 +0200 Message-ID: <13810.1020419033@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We have some 32 to 64 bit changes outstanding, which are necessary to complete the UFS2 DARPA project. So far the following three have been identified as having a syscall impact: ino_t stat.st_gen statfs. These are pretty trivial, it involves adding some new 64bit versions of the syscalls and corresponding data structures. If we look at bit closer, a number of other things really need the 32->64 treatment, struct rlimit for instance. This is still pretty trivial. And then the bad one: time_t. The time_t change is the most intrusive since it also changes the size of strut timespec, and logically should change the size of struct timeval but wouldn't since the second part there is defined as "long". This makes rusage, itimerval, pps_info_t and SVID IPC change size and affects quite a number of syscalls. And before anybody gets their knickers in a twist (there's a lot of that going round these days as the doctor would say) this all needs to be done and will be done in a backwards compatible way. Questions: 1. Are there anything else that needs to change size while we're at it ? 2. Is this a good occation to create a new syscall vector for FreeBSD 5.0 rather than embellish the existing one with even more variations ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 2:56:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9E2F37B41D; Fri, 3 May 2002 02:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 173Zpo-000Iif-00; Fri, 03 May 2002 11:58:40 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Wes Peters , John Baldwin , Terry Lambert , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: savcore dump names? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 03 May 2002 11:41:16 +0200." <13738.1020418876@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 11:58:40 +0200 Message-ID: <71960.1020419920@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 03 May 2002 11:41:16 +0200, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > This is blown completely out of proportion by now. Usually, when you say that, I don't agree. :-) I agree with you in this case. I don't think the current project climate is one in which we can address the principle people are arguing about. So let's just stick to the specific incident and consider it "almost resolved", given that Chad will post a patch soon and there are lots of people ready to commit it. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 3:44:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from 12-234-96-171.client.attbi.com (12-234-96-171.client.attbi.com [12.234.96.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25C6E37B417; Fri, 3 May 2002 03:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 12-234-96-171.client.attbi.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7416CA900; Fri, 3 May 2002 03:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 03:48:38 -0700 From: Jonathan Mini To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: syscall changes to deal with 32->64 changes. Message-ID: <20020503034838.K56560@stylus.haikugeek.com> References: <13810.1020419033@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <13810.1020419033@critter.freebsd.dk>; from phk@FreeBSD.ORG on Fri, May 03, 2002 at 11:43:53AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Poul-Henning Kamp [phk@FreeBSD.ORG] wrote : > 2. Is this a good occation to create a new syscall vector for > FreeBSD 5.0 rather than embellish the existing one with even > more variations ? I believe this is the cleanest solution. It makes sense to me that the entry point for a function would change when the symantics or parameters change. Also, folding more variations into the existing syscalls strikes me as a mess for binary compatability in the future. Especially since we're dealing with a large number of syscalls here (changing the size of time_t is going to hit a fair number, I would guess). If we use a new syscall vector for the 64bit syscalls, we give ourselves the opportunity to make a "clean break" away from the older ones. -- Jonathan Mini http://www.haikugeek.com "He who is not aware of his ignorance will be only misled by his knowledge." -- Richard Whatley To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 10:23:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.acns.ab.ca (mail.acns.ab.ca [142.179.151.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61EA737B495; Fri, 3 May 2002 10:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colnta.acns.ab.ca (colnta.acns.ab.ca [192.168.1.2]) by mail.acns.ab.ca (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g43HMVM4001014; Fri, 3 May 2002 11:22:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from davidc@colnta.acns.ab.ca) Received: from colnta.acns.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by colnta.acns.ab.ca (8.12.2/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g43HMVaA000891; Fri, 3 May 2002 11:22:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from davidc@colnta.acns.ab.ca) Received: (from davidc@localhost) by colnta.acns.ab.ca (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g43HMUuB000890; Fri, 3 May 2002 11:22:30 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:22:29 -0600 From: Chad David To: Terry Lambert Cc: Steve Kargl , Bill Fumerola , Peter Wemm , "Andrew R. Reiter" , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? Message-ID: <20020503112229.A852@colnta.acns.ab.ca> Mail-Followup-To: Terry Lambert , Steve Kargl , Bill Fumerola , Peter Wemm , "Andrew R. Reiter" , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020503002436.98DA538FD@overcee.wemm.org> <3CD1E0E4.86406459@mindspring.com> <20020503012406.GL688@elvis.mu.org> <3CD1E90C.2CC55AED@mindspring.com> <20020502211910.A23535@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <3CD22B6D.10642F73@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3CD22B6D.10642F73@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Thu, May 02, 2002 at 11:17:17PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 11:17:17PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Steve Kargl wrote: > > After Marcel's work someone else, whose name escapes > > me at this point in time, resurrected the vmcore.# > > functionality and maybe the minfree functionality. > > His patches were posted. I believe Alfred commented > > on the patches, and then no one committed the patches. > > Chad David? > > Maybe commit them? They can't be any further off from the > old behaviour after patching than before... I replied last night that I have code that needs to be commited, but I haven't had any time... I'm not sure why my posts didn't make it through to the lists. I would have done it last night, but I was experiencing my first snow and lightning storm with many power outages. I will send patches to this list later on tonight and hopefully people with access to sparc and alpha can test them and tell me what is wrong. -- Chad David davidc@acns.ab.ca www.FreeBSD.org davidc@freebsd.org ACNS Inc. Calgary, Alberta Canada Fourthly, The constant breeders, beside the gain of eight shillings sterling per annum by the sale of their children, will be rid of the charge of maintaining them after the first year. - Johnathan Swift To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 10:34:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0166937B41C; Fri, 3 May 2002 10:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0248.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.248] helo=mindspring.com) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 173gx1-0003rw-00; Fri, 03 May 2002 10:34:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD2CA0E.8EDB3F13@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 10:34:07 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Wes Peters , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: savcore dump names? References: <13738.1020418876@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > If I weren't in such a good mood, I would claim that this entire > thing is because some of the usual suspects once again focus on > beating up me rather than getting actual work done (This accusation > doesn't apply to Terry, of course since he is exempt from doing any > work). > > But I am in a good mood so I wont. You are impossible to defend. It's just totally impossible to be on either side of any issue you are involved in, without your ignoring the technical arguments and personally attacking someone. It was pretty obvious that Peter was jumping on you. However, you turning around and jumping on me and Peter and anyone else in range makes it really hard to take your side. As for me personally... If you boot your system, you go through my code. Look at the /sys/kern/init_main.c; I am the original author of the SYSINIT code, and just because my copyright isn't in other code I've written, doesn't mean that I don't have code there. The FFS mount code for the root/non-root mounts is mine. The fsck code that fixes the reference count on lost+found is mine. The "-d" option to the "w" command is mine. The orginal LKM code is mine. Etc. etc.. In retrospect, I should never have distanced myself from the project originally back in 1994 when Novell bought USL, and I was invited to be a core team member. I did it to protect the project legally, but I'll be damned if I haven't regretted it ever since, even if it did convince Mike DeFazio, V.P. of the UNIX Systems Group at Novell, to revise the cease-and-desist conditions that were different for FreeBSD and NetBSD than they were for BSDI. It's incredibly tempting to just fork the project -- something I've lobbied heavily against in the past, with great success -- just to get rid of the social structures that allow things like the reasons for this current discussion to get started in the first place. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 12:55: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au (mailman.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8C1437B400; Fri, 3 May 2002 12:55:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bde.zeta.org.au (bde.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.102]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA20971; Sat, 4 May 2002 05:55:00 +1000 Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 05:56:33 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-X-Sender: bde@gamplex.bde.org To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: syscall changes to deal with 32->64 changes. In-Reply-To: <13810.1020419033@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: <20020504054714.H8802-100000@gamplex.bde.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 3 May 2002, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > If we look at bit closer, a number of other things really need the > 32->64 treatment, struct rlimit for instance. This is still > pretty trivial. struct rlimit is already 64-bits. > And then the bad one: time_t. > > The time_t change is the most intrusive since it also changes the > size of strut timespec, and logically should change the size of > struct timeval but wouldn't since the second part there is defined > as "long". This makes rusage, itimerval, pps_info_t and SVID IPC > change size and affects quite a number of syscalls. It would change the size of struct timeval on 32-bit machines, since the alignment of the "long" should be 32 bits even if longs have the correct size (2 * 32 bits). > And before anybody gets their knickers in a twist (there's a lot > of that going round these days as the doctor would say) this all > needs to be done and will be done in a backwards compatible way. > > Questions: > > 1. Are there anything else that needs to change size while we're > at it ? > > 2. Is this a good occation to create a new syscall vector for > FreeBSD 5.0 rather than embellish the existing one with even > more variations ? Depends on how long you want to delay 5.0R by ;-). Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 20: 1:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.acns.ab.ca (mail.acns.ab.ca [142.179.151.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 652D737B41B for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 20:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colnta.acns.ab.ca (colnta.acns.ab.ca [192.168.1.2]) by mail.acns.ab.ca (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g4431UM4002399 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 21:01:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from davidc@colnta.acns.ab.ca) Received: from colnta.acns.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by colnta.acns.ab.ca (8.12.2/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g4431UaA004152 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 21:01:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from davidc@colnta.acns.ab.ca) Received: (from davidc@localhost) by colnta.acns.ab.ca (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g4431UvX004151 for arch@freebsd.org; Fri, 3 May 2002 21:01:30 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 21:01:30 -0600 From: Chad David To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: patch for savecore Message-ID: <20020503210130.A4114@colnta.acns.ab.ca> Mail-Followup-To: arch@freebsd.org References: <20020503002436.98DA538FD@overcee.wemm.org> <3CD1E0E4.86406459@mindspring.com> <20020503012406.GL688@elvis.mu.org> <3CD1E90C.2CC55AED@mindspring.com> <20020502211910.A23535@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <3CD22B6D.10642F73@mindspring.com> <20020503112229.A852@colnta.acns.ab.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="opJtzjQTFsWo+cga" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020503112229.A852@colnta.acns.ab.ca>; from davidc@acns.ab.ca on Fri, May 03, 2002 at 11:22:29AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --opJtzjQTFsWo+cga Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, May 03, 2002 at 11:22:29AM -0600, Chad David wrote: > > I will send patches to this list later on tonight and hopefully > people with access to sparc and alpha can test them and tell me > what is wrong. > As promised: - revert back to vmcore.# - reimplement minfree - reimplement -z - use syslog() - improve consistancy of messages - allow -f to recover cleared dumps - increase bufsize to BUFSIZ * 64 for speed (not scientific) I do not have access to sparc or alpha right now, so I have no idea if it even compiles on them; as well, I've only tested a few obvious cases so there may be bugs, but it works for me on current as of this morning. Any and all comments are welcome. If somebody is in a hurry they can fix/commit it themselves; otherwise, I'll try and get to it as soon as the comments stop rolling in. Thanks to phk for the low hanging fruit :). -- Chad David davidc@acns.ab.ca www.FreeBSD.org davidc@freebsd.org ACNS Inc. Calgary, Alberta Canada Fourthly, The constant breeders, beside the gain of eight shillings sterling per annum by the sale of their children, will be rid of the charge of maintaining them after the first year. - Johnathan Swift --opJtzjQTFsWo+cga Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="kerneldump.diff" Index: kerneldump.h =================================================================== RCS file: /mnt1/ncvs/src/sys/sys/kerneldump.h,v retrieving revision 1.3 diff -u -d -r1.3 kerneldump.h --- kerneldump.h 3 Apr 2002 07:24:10 -0000 1.3 +++ kerneldump.h 4 May 2002 02:45:44 -0000 @@ -60,6 +60,7 @@ struct kerneldumpheader { char magic[20]; #define KERNELDUMPMAGIC "FreeBSD Kernel Dump" +#define KERNELDUMPMAGIC_CLEARED "FreeBSD Cleard Dump" char architecture[12]; uint32_t version; #define KERNELDUMPVERSION 1 --opJtzjQTFsWo+cga Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="savecore.diff" Index: savecore.c =================================================================== RCS file: /mnt1/ncvs/src/sbin/savecore/savecore.c,v retrieving revision 1.57 diff -u -d -r1.57 savecore.c --- savecore.c 21 Apr 2002 07:18:16 -0000 1.57 +++ savecore.c 4 May 2002 02:44:57 -0000 @@ -36,27 +36,31 @@ #include __FBSDID("$FreeBSD: src/sbin/savecore/savecore.c,v 1.57 2002/04/21 07:18:16 charnier Exp $"); -#include +#include #include #include +#include #include #include #include #include #include -#include +#include #include #include #include +#include #include #include -int clear, force, keep, verbose; /* flags */ -int nfound, nsaved; /* statistics */ +int compress, clear, force, keep, verbose; /* flags */ +int nfound, nsaved; /* statistics */ + +extern FILE *zopen(const char *, const char *); static void printheader(FILE *f, const struct kerneldumpheader *h, const char *device, - const char *md5) + int bounds) { uint64_t dumplen; time_t t; @@ -74,61 +78,184 @@ fprintf(f, " Hostname: %s\n", h->hostname); fprintf(f, " Versionstring: %s", h->versionstring); fprintf(f, " Panicstring: %s\n", h->panicstring); - fprintf(f, " MD5: %s\n", md5); + fprintf(f, " Bounds: %d\n", bounds); fflush(f); } +static int +getbounds(void) { + FILE *fp; + char buf[6]; + int ret; + + ret = 0; + + if ((fp = fopen("bounds", "r")) == NULL) { + syslog(LOG_WARNING, "unable to open bounds file, using 0"); + goto newfile; + } + + if (fgets(buf, sizeof buf, fp) == NULL) { + syslog(LOG_WARNING, "unable to read from bounds, using 0"); + fclose(fp); + goto newfile; + } + + errno = 0; + ret = (int)strtol(buf, NULL, 10); + if (ret == 0 && (errno == EINVAL || errno == ERANGE)) + syslog(LOG_WARNING, "invalid value found in bounds, using 0"); + +newfile: + + if ((fp = fopen("bounds", "w")) == NULL) { + syslog(LOG_WARNING, "%m: unable to write to bounds file"); + goto done; + } + + if (verbose) + printf("bounds number: %d\n", ret); + + fprintf(fp, "%d\n", (ret + 1)); + fclose(fp); + +done: + return (ret); +} + +static int +minfree_ok(off_t dumpsize) { + char cwdbuf[MAXPATHLEN]; + char buf[32]; + struct statfs fsbuf; + off_t minfree, curfree, needed; + int error, n; + int fd; + + if (getcwd(cwdbuf, MAXPATHLEN) == NULL) { + syslog(LOG_ERR, "%m: unable to determine working directory"); + return (0); + } + + needed = dumpsize / 1024; + + error = statfs(cwdbuf, &fsbuf); + if (error == -1) { + syslog(LOG_ERR, "%m: unable to stat filesytem"); + return (0); + } + + fd = open("minfree", O_RDONLY); + if (fd < 0) { + if (errno == ENOENT) { + if (verbose) + printf("minfree not found\n"); + goto rawcheck; + } else { + syslog(LOG_WARNING, "%m: unable to open minfree"); + goto rawcheck; + } + } + + n = read(fd, buf, 32); + if (n == -1) { + syslog(LOG_ERR, "%m: unable to read minfree"); + close(fd); + goto rawcheck; + } + close(fd); + + buf[n] = '\0'; + minfree = strtoll(buf, NULL, 10); + if (minfree == 0 && (errno == EINVAL || errno == ERANGE)) { + syslog(LOG_WARNING, "%m: invalid entry in minfree"); + goto rawcheck; + } + + curfree = ((off_t) fsbuf.f_bavail * fsbuf.f_bsize) / 1024; + + if ((needed + minfree) > curfree) + return (0); + + return (1); + +rawcheck: + + curfree = ((off_t) fsbuf.f_bfree * fsbuf.f_bsize) / 1024; + if (needed > curfree) + return (0); + + return (1); +} static void DoFile(const char *device) { struct kerneldumpheader kdhf, kdhl; - char buf[BUFSIZ]; + char buf[BUFSIZ * 64]; struct stat sb; - off_t mediasize, dumpsize, firsthd, lasthd; - char *md5; - FILE *info; - int fd, fdcore, fdinfo, error, wl; + off_t mediasize, dumpsize, firsthd, lasthd, dmpcnt; + FILE *info, *fdcore; + int fd, fdinfo, error, wl; + int bounds; u_int sectorsize; + dmpcnt = 0; + mediasize = 0; + if (verbose) - printf("Checking for kernel dump on device %s\n", device); + printf("checking for kernel dump on device %s\n", device); - mediasize = 0; fd = open(device, O_RDWR); if (fd < 0) { - warn("%s", device); + syslog(LOG_ERR, "%m: %s", device); return; } error = ioctl(fd, DIOCGMEDIASIZE, &mediasize); if (!error) error = ioctl(fd, DIOCGSECTORSIZE, §orsize); if (error) { - warn("couldn't find media and/or sector size of %s", device); + syslog(LOG_ERR, + "%m: couldn't find media and/or sector size of %s", device); goto closefd; } if (verbose) { - printf("Mediasize = %lld\n", (long long)mediasize); - printf("Sectorsize = %u\n", sectorsize); + printf("mediasize = %lld\n", (long long)mediasize); + printf("sectorsize = %u\n", sectorsize); } lasthd = mediasize - sectorsize; lseek(fd, lasthd, SEEK_SET); error = read(fd, &kdhl, sizeof kdhl); if (error != sizeof kdhl) { - warn("error reading last dump header at offset %lld in %s", + syslog(LOG_ERR, + "%m: error reading last dump header at offset %lld in %s", (long long)lasthd, device); goto closefd; } if (memcmp(kdhl.magic, KERNELDUMPMAGIC, sizeof kdhl.magic)) { if (verbose) - warnx("magic mismatch on last dump header on %s", + printf("magic mismatch on last dump header on %s\n", device); - goto closefd; + + if (force == 0) + goto closefd; + + if (memcmp(kdhl.magic, KERNELDUMPMAGIC_CLEARED, + sizeof kdhl.magic) == 0) { + if (verbose) + printf("forcing magic on %s\n", device); + memcpy(kdhl.magic, KERNELDUMPMAGIC, + sizeof kdhl.magic); + } else { + syslog(LOG_ERR, "%m: unable to force dump\n"); + goto closefd; + } } if (dtoh32(kdhl.version) != KERNELDUMPVERSION) { - warnx("unknown version (%d) in last dump header on %s", + syslog(LOG_ERR, + "unknown version (%d) in last dump header on %s", dtoh32(kdhl.version), device); goto closefd; } @@ -138,7 +265,8 @@ goto nuke; if (kerneldump_parity(&kdhl)) { - warnx("parity error on last dump header on %s", device); + syslog(LOG_ERR, + "parity error on last dump header on %s", device); goto closefd; } dumpsize = dtoh64(kdhl.dumplength); @@ -146,16 +274,27 @@ lseek(fd, firsthd, SEEK_SET); error = read(fd, &kdhf, sizeof kdhf); if (error != sizeof kdhf) { - warn("error reading first dump header at offset %lld in %s", + syslog(LOG_ERR, + "%m: error reading first dump header at offset %lld in %s", (long long)firsthd, device); goto closefd; } if (memcmp(&kdhl, &kdhf, sizeof kdhl)) { - warn("first and last dump headers disagree on %s", device); + syslog(LOG_ERR, + "first and last dump headers disagree on %s", device); goto closefd; } - md5 = MD5Data((unsigned char *)&kdhl, sizeof kdhl, NULL); - sprintf(buf, "%s.info", md5); + + if (verbose) + printf("Checking for available free space\n"); + if (!minfree_ok(dumpsize)) { + syslog(LOG_ERR, "not enough free space to save dump"); + goto closefd; + } + + bounds = getbounds(); + + sprintf(buf, "info.%d", bounds); /* * See if the dump has been saved already. Don't save the dump @@ -164,12 +303,13 @@ if (stat(buf, &sb) == 0) { if (!force) { if (verbose) - printf("Dump on device %s already saved\n", - device); + printf("dump %d on device %s already saved\n", + bounds, device); goto closefd; } } else if (errno != ENOENT) { - warn("error while checking for pre-saved core file"); + syslog(LOG_ERR, + "%m: error while checking for pre-saved core file"); goto closefd; } @@ -178,25 +318,31 @@ */ fdinfo = open(buf, O_WRONLY | O_CREAT | O_TRUNC, 0600); if (fdinfo < 0) { - warn("%s", buf); + syslog(LOG_ERR, "%m: %s", buf); goto closefd; } - sprintf(buf, "%s.core", md5); - fdcore = open(buf, O_WRONLY | O_CREAT | O_TRUNC, 0600); - if (fdcore < 0) { - warn("%s", buf); + if (compress) { + sprintf(buf, "vmcore.%d.gz", bounds); + fdcore = zopen(buf, "w"); + } else { + sprintf(buf, "vmcore.%d", bounds); + fdcore = fopen(buf, "w"); + } + if (fdcore == NULL) { + syslog(LOG_ERR, "%m: %s", buf); close(fdinfo); goto closefd; } info = fdopen(fdinfo, "w"); if (verbose) - printheader(stdout, &kdhl, device, md5); + printheader(stdout, &kdhl, device, bounds); - printf("Saving dump to file %s\n", buf); + syslog(LOG_NOTICE, "saving dump to file %s", buf); nsaved++; - printheader(info, &kdhl, device, md5); + printheader(info, &kdhl, device, bounds); + fclose(info); while (dumpsize > 0) { wl = sizeof(buf); @@ -204,40 +350,48 @@ wl = dumpsize; error = read(fd, buf, wl); if (error != wl) { - warn("read error on %s", device); + syslog(LOG_ERR, "%m: read error on %s", device); goto closeall; } - error = write(fdcore, buf, wl); + error = fwrite(buf, 1, wl, fdcore); if (error != wl) { - warn("write error on %s.core file", md5); + syslog(LOG_ERR, + "%m: write error on vmcore.%d file", bounds); goto closeall; } + if (verbose) { + dmpcnt += wl; + printf("%llu\r", dmpcnt); + fflush(stdout); + } dumpsize -= wl; } - close(fdinfo); - close(fdcore); + if (verbose) + printf("\n"); + + fclose(fdcore); if (verbose) - printf("Dump saved\n"); + printf("dump saved\n"); - nuke: +nuke: if (clear || !keep) { if (verbose) - printf("Clearing dump header\n"); - memset(&kdhl, 0, sizeof kdhl); + printf("clearing dump header\n"); + memcpy(kdhl.magic, KERNELDUMPMAGIC_CLEARED, sizeof kdhl.magic); lseek(fd, lasthd, SEEK_SET); error = write(fd, &kdhl, sizeof kdhl); if (error != sizeof kdhl) - warn("error while clearing the dump header"); + syslog(LOG_ERR, + "%m: error while clearing the dump header"); } close(fd); return; - closeall: - close(fdinfo); - close(fdcore); +closeall: + fclose(fdcore); - closefd: +closefd: close(fd); } @@ -254,6 +408,8 @@ int i, ch, error; struct fstab *fsp; + openlog("savecore", LOG_PERROR, LOG_DAEMON); + while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "cdfkN:vz")) != -1) switch(ch) { case 'c': @@ -268,9 +424,11 @@ case 'f': force = 1; break; + case 'z': + compress = 1; + break; case 'd': /* Obsolete */ case 'N': - case 'z': case '?': default: usage(); @@ -301,9 +459,9 @@ /* Emit minimal output. */ if (nfound == 0) - printf("No dumps found\n"); + syslog(LOG_WARNING, "no dumps found or not enough space"); else if (nsaved == 0) - printf("No unsaved dumps found\n"); + syslog(LOG_WARNING, "no unsaved dumps found"); return (0); } --opJtzjQTFsWo+cga-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 20:33:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0437B37B416 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 20:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blossom.cjclark.org ([12.234.91.48]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020504033340.FLZE5896.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@blossom.cjclark.org> for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 03:33:40 +0000 Received: (from cjc@localhost) by blossom.cjclark.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g443Xed74362 for arch@freebsd.org; Fri, 3 May 2002 20:33:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 20:33:40 -0700 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: df(1) Broken in jail(8) Message-ID: <20020503203340.A74245@blossom.cjclark.org> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-URL: http://people.freebsd.org/~cjc/ Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The df(1) utility is broken in jail(8) environments. I could understand if it was totally broken, there are things you can't and shouldn't be able to do in a jail(8). However, df(1) behavior is inconsistent. The getmntinfo(3) function (via the getfsstat(2) call) works in a jail(8). When the output is generated from its output, df(1) works (but the info isn't offset to the jail(8)'s root). However, when one specifies individual filesystems or uses the '-t' option, the information on the mount point is gathered using a statfs(2) call. Since this takes a path, which will be offset to the jail(8) root when processed, as an argument, the results are basically broken. There are several ways to fix this, and I've come here for opinions. 1) One can not use statfs(2) for '-t,' but stick with getmntinfo(3)'s info only. But it makes some sense to stick with statfs(2) for file aguments provided to df(1). This is fairly easy to implement. 2) One can remove the ability to use df(1) at all in a jail(8). It could be argued that there is no real reason to be able to use things like getfsstat(2) or statfs(2) in a jail(8) (but what else might this break?). This is easy to do. 3) One can fix getfstat(2) and statfs(2) so they are "jail(8)-aware." That is, getfstat(2) knows only to return info on filesystems mounted at or above the jail(8)'s root. Both calls learn how to offset their mountpoint names to the jail root. This is harder. And is anyone already working on this? -- Crist J. Clark | cjclark@alum.mit.edu | cjclark@jhu.edu http://people.freebsd.org/~cjc/ | cjc@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri May 3 23:37:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from postfix2-1.free.fr (postfix2-1.free.fr [213.228.0.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2FF637B416 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 23:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from free.fr (nas-cbv-5-62-147-145-25.dial.proxad.net [62.147.145.25]) by postfix2-1.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF3752B9 for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 08:37:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from nsouch@localhost) by free.fr (8.11.6/8.9.3) id g446m9228511 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sat, 4 May 2002 08:48:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from nsouch) Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 08:48:09 +0200 From: Nicolas Souchu To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: [nsouch@free.fr: syscons and graphic abstraction (renderer)] Message-ID: <20020504084809.D28405@armor.fastether> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Arch is certainly a better place to discuss the issue. ----- Forwarded message from Nicolas Souchu ----- Delivered-To: online.fr-nsouch@free.fr Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 23:25:03 +0200 Hi folks, Could one of you (console gurus) give me an overview of syscons abstraction regarding underlying video adapters? I noticed two files scvgarndr.c and scgfbrndr.c which seem to do the job. How all this interacts with dev/fb code, if it does? Is it sufficient to implement a new scxxxrdnr.c file to use a different underlying interface which would propose the same functionnalities? Is scgfbrndr.c usable with an i386 machine? How? Nicholas -- Nicholas Souchu - nsouch@free.fr - nsouch@FreeBSD.org ----- End forwarded message ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 0:41:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D021237B41D; Sat, 4 May 2002 00:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g447fKb5023782; Sat, 4 May 2002 03:41:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 03:41:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: syscall changes to deal with 32->64 changes. In-Reply-To: <13810.1020419033@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 3 May 2002, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > Questions: > > 1. Are there anything else that needs to change size while we're > at it ? Well, you had the SysVIPC stuff in there anyway, so if you're going to break the ABI, could you modify it so the uid and gid fields use uid_t and gid_t, and if we don't use mode_t for the perm field already (I think we do), start using mode_t there also? I have patches that break out the user and kernel structures for sysvipc, but they are pretty dated. I needed these to add MAC support for them, and to start locking them down for SMPng, since both MAC labels and lock entries shouldn't go in the user/kernel interface structure, which in theory is a fixed and well-defined structure. > 2. Is this a good occation to create a new syscall vector for > FreeBSD 5.0 rather than embellish the existing one with even > more variations ? John Baldwin and I have thrown this idea around a number of times, as we keep bumping into things that would change the ABI. Doing this doesn't save you from having to write the compatibility code, but it would sure make the syscalls.master file cleaner as we go forwards, and help a lot with the binary compatibility issue. Here's my opinion: if it's a change that can be made by one person in one week without boatloads of lasting compatibility and ABI concerns, and you're volunteering to do it, then I think it's a great idea. However, there are some technical questions to answer, including how we identify binaries using the new ABI, etc. If we're going to generate a new syscall table, 5.0 is definitely the time to do it, however, so I think it's now or 6.0. And we should make sure we really catch everything while we're here. I agree with Bruce's concerns about the possible impact on a release date, hence specifying "a week" as the implementation time frame. Another idea I've been bumping around for a bit is to better divorce the "system call" and "service" implementations in the kernel. I don't remember if I ever sent the picture out to -arch before, but it goes something like this: Now: +------------------------------+ +-----------+ +---------------+ | FreeBSD ABI + basic service | | Linux ABI | | Foo ABI ..... | | implementation | +-----------+ +---------------+ | | || || | +---------------------------------+ | | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ || ... VFS, Scheduler, VM, ... Possible future layout: +-----------------+ +---------------+ +-----------+ +-------------+ | FreeBSD Old ABI | | FreeBSD 5 ABI | | Linux ABI | | Foo ABI ... | +-----------------+ +---------------+ +-----------+ +-------------+ || || || || +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Basic service implementation | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ || ... VFS, Scheduler, VM, ... The goal of such a picture would be that, in general, the ABI layers would have the sole purpose of bringing in arguments, mapping native ABI structures to internal service structures, construction uio's, etc. Then the service implementation would largely deal with kernel-derived arguments, or ones where a specific user vs. kernel flag would be present to indicate the source of the arguments. This would facilitate writing kernel code that invokes kernel APIs, such as mount, etc, by avoiding situations where use of user addresses is hard-coded into kernel APIs. In many cases, it actually wouldn't mean much in the way of changes, and the lines might not always be clean (especially when a service implementation was specific to an ABI because it wasn't widely required). If we moved to a FreeBSD 5 ABI, now would be a good time to do that -- we'd make the FreeBSD 5 structures be the "native" ones used for the service implementations, then map past FreeBSD structures into them in the FreeBSD Old ABI. We already have this sort of layout in many places in the VFS code, to be honest. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 0:58:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4CE337B416 for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 00:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g447wMb5023842; Sat, 4 May 2002 03:58:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 03:58:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: df(1) Broken in jail(8) In-Reply-To: <20020503203340.A74245@blossom.cjclark.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 3 May 2002, Crist J. Clark wrote: > The df(1) utility is broken in jail(8) environments. I could understand > if it was totally broken, there are things you can't and shouldn't be > able to do in a jail(8). However, df(1) behavior is inconsistent. Arguably yes. > The getmntinfo(3) function (via the getfsstat(2) call) works in a > jail(8). When the output is generated from its output, df(1) works (but > the info isn't offset to the jail(8)'s root). However, when one > specifies individual filesystems or uses the '-t' option, the > information on the mount point is gathered using a statfs(2) call. > Since this takes a path, which will be offset to the jail(8) root when > processed, as an argument, the results are basically broken. This is a property of the way VFS works with regards to pathnames. In VFS, pathnames don't really exist, there are just vnodes. :-) getmntinfo() and relate calls cache a pathname at mount-time, which is then regurgitated later when requested. That path isn't just wrong in jail, it's frequently wrong outside of jail. For example, mount /dev/ad0s1e /mnt/this/is/one/path mv /mnt/this/is /mnt/this/was df The path reported is now wrong. As you've observed, when you use chroot(), it's also wrong. In fact, there are countless ways to make it wrong. I don't think it's reasonable to ever expect it to be right given how our VFS works. Nothing says, for example, that you can't mount from within a chroot() -- I do it all the time in at least one diskless environment I work with. > There are several ways to fix this, and I've come here for opinions. > > 1) One can not use statfs(2) for '-t,' but stick with > getmntinfo(3)'s info only. But it makes some sense to stick with > statfs(2) for file aguments provided to df(1). This is fairly > easy to implement. It depends what you want df to do. Typically, df and mount report the path where the filesystem was mounted. That's what you get with statfs(). In fact, I know a number of people who abuse df to figure out what filesystem a directory is actually in. Vis. cd /usr/obj df . As pointed out, this can be wrong in a variety of situations. > 2) One can remove the ability to use df(1) at all in a jail(8). It > could be argued that there is no real reason to be able to use > things like getfsstat(2) or statfs(2) in a jail(8) (but what else > might this break?). This is easy to do. statfs() is used by several applications that you wouldn't expect. Try turning off statfs() sometime and see what happens. Applications like to query the block size, check for free space, etc. > 3) One can fix getfstat(2) and statfs(2) so they are > "jail(8)-aware." That is, getfstat(2) knows only to return info > on filesystems mounted at or above the jail(8)'s root. Both calls > learn how to offset their mountpoint names to the jail root. This > is harder. This is effectively impossible, or at least, very difficult. Suppose I construct a file system hierarchy like so: mount -t procfs proc /proc mount /dev/ad0s1e /usr mount /dev/ad1s1a /jailroot mount /dev/ad1s1e /jailroot/var mount /dev/ad1s1e /jailroot/usr mount -t procfs proc /jailroot/proc mount -t devfs devfs /jailroot/dev For each filesystem in jail, how do I determine which to report? Now imagine some of those were mounted under various chroot()'s as the system booted. Imagine they have different blocksizes, etc, etc. Interestingly, the trustedbsd_mac tree does permit filtering of getmntinfo() and statfs(), and accepts the application breakage, but it relies on policies that have a much more well-defined notion of what should be visible. For example, it knows how to block display of information in df based on confidentiality labels: if a filesystem was mounted by a high-confidentiality process, a low confidentiality process won't be able to statfs it, and won't be able to see it in the list of mouted filesystems. But that is possible because the decision is based on a tuple with well-defined parameters: (process sensitivity label, filesystem sensitivity label). With jail, you can't "just look" at the struct mount and trivially determine if it's visible to a jail or not, because jail visibility is subject to the whims of VFS at any given moment. Filesystems are welcome to spit back vnodes you wouldn't expect -- for example, for the longest time procfs would return the actual vnode of the executable run most recently by the process. It didn't return a procfs vnode, but a real reference to p_vtextvp. > And is anyone already working on this? There are some patches in the PR collection. I've generally objected to them. The best hack I've seen so far simply restricts statfs() and getmntinfo() operations to returning information only on the filesystem matching the root directory of the current process. Sure, this is broken for /proc or /dev in jail, among other things, but it's a simple hack and unbreaks many applications. It may be there are cool solutions that we haven't thought of yet that avoid the properties I've described above. However, I'd appreciate the chance to review any changes you come up with before you commit them, so I can look out for the usual complications. Just as a suggestion when experimenting with this: generate some statistics on how much getmntinfo() and statfs() are invoked by your system over the course of a 24 hour period of normal system use. Instrument both system calls so that you get printfs to /dev/log indicating when they were called, and print out p_comm. I think you'll be surprised by the result, especially if you run windowing systems (or ls). Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 2: 9:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from kayak.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F06AB37B404; Sat, 4 May 2002 02:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.201]) by kayak.xcllnt.net (8.11.6/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g4499gJ14268; Sat, 4 May 2002 02:09:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@kayak.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g449A8Hu001314; Sat, 4 May 2002 02:10:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g449A8vf001313; Sat, 4 May 2002 02:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 02:10:08 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Terry Lambert Cc: "Andrew R. Reiter" , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? Message-ID: <20020504091008.GB1068@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <3CD1CA4D.31AE5135@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3CD1CA4D.31AE5135@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 04:22:53PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > Damn, then why post at all? That's crap. > > If you want, I can find the URL references to back out all the > corresponding changes; I think it would piss Marcel off, if > anyone committed them, though. I'm not easily pissed off. I may have strange logic though :-) > "Put it back" is not an acceptable answer, since it doesn't > provide a forward path by describing the "correct behavior" > ("the way it was" is not an adequate behavioural specification). > If you want "put it back", then you can easily do that yourself > with the resources I pointed at. I tend to agree. > If people could say what they want, rather than bitching about > what they don't want, it'd be a heck of a lot more likely to > result in patches (IMO). Agreed. My take on it all is that I like it that savecore is MI. The price for this is a bit higher than I'd like, but not high enough for me to not go through with it. Specific to the MD5 names: nothing is stopping people from creating and committing patches. -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 2:22:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E7B937B41B for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 02:22:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 06718534B; Sat, 4 May 2002 11:22:29 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Chad David Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: patch for savecore References: <20020503002436.98DA538FD@overcee.wemm.org> <3CD1E0E4.86406459@mindspring.com> <20020503012406.GL688@elvis.mu.org> <3CD1E90C.2CC55AED@mindspring.com> <20020502211910.A23535@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <3CD22B6D.10642F73@mindspring.com> <20020503112229.A852@colnta.acns.ab.ca> <20020503210130.A4114@colnta.acns.ab.ca> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 04 May 2002 11:22:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20020503210130.A4114@colnta.acns.ab.ca> Message-ID: Lines: 16 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chad David writes: > As promised: > > - revert back to vmcore.# > - reimplement minfree > - reimplement -z > - use syslog() > - improve consistancy of messages > - allow -f to recover cleared dumps > - increase bufsize to BUFSIZ * 64 for speed (not scientific) What about holes? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 2:45:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61C4A37B404; Sat, 4 May 2002 02:45:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g449itQ4033535; Sat, 4 May 2002 11:44:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Robert Watson Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: syscall changes to deal with 32->64 changes. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 04 May 2002 03:41:19 EDT." Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 11:44:55 +0200 Message-ID: <33534.1020505495@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message , Rob ert Watson writes: >Here's my opinion: if it's a change >that can be made by one person in one week without boatloads of lasting >compatibility and ABI concerns, and you're volunteering to do it, then I >think it's a great idea. That's not even remotely close to realistic. I think a realistic plan might look something like this: 1. Change the in-kernel types to 64 bits for each entity to change size: a) rewrite syscall entries to translate sizes. b) change size in kernel, but retain old size in userland 2. Add new syscall API a) write syscalls implementations. 3. Change userland over. a) Add #ifdef NEWAPI all over the includes so people can select which API to use. b) Create new major-revv libc which uses new API c) Leave people time to find bugs in ports etc. d) Throw the switch for good. Earliest realistic dates would be 3c on juli 1st and 3d a month later. Is that too late for 5.0-R ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 8:37:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F03F837B405; Sat, 4 May 2002 08:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 4 May 2002 16:37:30 +0100 (BST) To: Robert Watson Cc: cjclark@alum.mit.edu, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: df(1) Broken in jail(8) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 04 May 2002 03:58:21 EDT." Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 16:37:30 +0100 From: Ian Dowse Message-ID: <200205041637.aa50555@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message , Robe rt Watson writes: >This is a property of the way VFS works with regards to pathnames. In >VFS, pathnames don't really exist, there are just vnodes. :-) >getmntinfo() and relate calls cache a pathname at mount-time, which is >then regurgitated later when requested. That path isn't just wrong in >jail, it's frequently wrong outside of jail. For example, > > mount /dev/ad0s1e /mnt/this/is/one/path > mv /mnt/this/is /mnt/this/was > df A related issue is that unmounting a filesystem may not be possible if the path has changed, if a filesystem on which it is mounted is dead (e.g NFS), or if the filesystem has been severed from the tree by unmounting an underlying filesystem. I was thinking recently about adding a filesystem root vnode reference to struct mount to address some of these cases. For unmount(2) it may be acceptable to require that the specified path matches the mountlist path, so umount() can just look up the mountlist entry instead of calling namei(). Ian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 10:32: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from haali.cs.msu.ru (haali.po.cs.msu.su [158.250.16.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE08A37B43C for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 10:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mike@localhost) by haali.cs.msu.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g44HU8o92465 for arch@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 4 May 2002 21:30:08 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from dima@haali.cs.msu.ru) X-Authentication-Warning: haali.cs.msu.ru: mike set sender to dima@haali.cs.msu.ru using -f Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 21:30:08 +0400 From: Dmitry To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: df(1) Broken in jail(8) Message-ID: <20020504173008.GA92411@haali.cs.msu.ru> Mail-Followup-To: Dmitry , arch@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020503203340.A74245@blossom.cjclark.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020503203340.A74245@blossom.cjclark.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 03, 2002 at 08:33:40PM -0700, Crist J. Clark wrote: > The df(1) utility is broken in jail(8) environments. I could > understand if it was totally broken, there are things you can't and > shouldn't be able to do in a jail(8). However, df(1) behavior is > inconsistent. > > The getmntinfo(3) function (via the getfsstat(2) call) works in a > jail(8). When the output is generated from its output, df(1) works > (but the info isn't offset to the jail(8)'s root). However, when one > specifies individual filesystems or uses the '-t' option, the > information on the mount point is gathered using a statfs(2) > call. Since this takes a path, which will be offset to the jail(8) > root when processed, as an argument, the results are basically > broken. > > There are several ways to fix this, and I've come here for > opinions. > > 1) One can not use statfs(2) for '-t,' but stick with > getmntinfo(3)'s info only. But it makes some sense to stick with > statfs(2) for file aguments provided to df(1). This is fairly > easy to implement. > > 2) One can remove the ability to use df(1) at all in a jail(8). It > could be argued that there is no real reason to be able to use > things like getfsstat(2) or statfs(2) in a jail(8) (but what else > might this break?). This is easy to do. Actually I think the only good idea is to prevent jailed users from getting any info about host with his jail. Jail was created to improve security. So, if jailed user CAN'T guess what host jail is running, he can't use jail to attack the main box. So, I think that hiding main box' info from jailed users is even more usefull than adding multiIP jail or like. I think there must be 3 main ideas: 1) Jailed user must not have ability to change main box info (Thanx to FreeBSD team it's done with jail :) 2) Jailed user must not have ability to get any info about main host. This incluses, but not limitid to: - df (Why user without access to filesystem should know it's size, usage or existance at all?) - network information (ARP table, IP routing table, netmask, interface statistics, etc) - dmesg (Jailed user actually gets ALL host configuration. Look at ifconfig within jail: it shows only 1 network card while dmesg shows all hardware and it's configuration within jail; it shows messages about system problems, so hacker within jail can see how to DOS main box or even see panic messages when he tries to exploit main box from somewhere) - sysctl (90% of it's info is not needed in jail and must be hidden) 3) Jailed user must not have a way to find out he is in jail. Hmm, seems it is too hard for now :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 10:36:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wemm.org (12-232-135-171.client.attbi.com [12.232.135.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A87837B4A2; Sat, 4 May 2002 10:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from overcee.wemm.org (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by fw.wemm.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g44HZF416897; Sat, 4 May 2002 10:35:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.wemm.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4109D3811; Sat, 4 May 2002 10:35:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Wes Peters , John Baldwin , Terry Lambert , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? In-Reply-To: <13738.1020418876@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 10:35:15 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20020504173515.4109D3811@overcee.wemm.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > And for reasons I have yet to fathom, Peter suddenly drags a > completely unrelated patch (MII) into the picture, and rather than > do the sensible thing (ie: test the patch or reply to my email where > I answered his questions) he goes "That makes me feel really warm > and cozy" with absolutely no facts or technical backing. > > If Peter or anybody else has any concerns about the patch, then > please SAY what these concerns are, or optionally: test the patch > and see for yourself if your concerns are founded or unfounded. My concerns are pretty simple. You're chopping stuff out of a particularly hairy bit of timing sensitive device driver code, not being able to test it on the hardware that needs it, and all this for no apparent reason other than that you do not like (or do not understand) it. ie: we do not gain anything by it except risking breakage when the code gets used by more than a handful of people. In the light of the savecore fiasco, I'm worried that you are going to simply respond and and say "Not my problem" when all hell breaks loose in 6 to 12 months from now. When somebody upgrades their 4.x box to 5.0-REL and their 'tl' card stops working because of your "simplification", will you fix it? If you commit to that, then I'm no longer worried. This is not quite the same thing as userconfig. I practically moved heaven and earth to keep userconfig functional while there was no alternative. Now that hints are functional we do have an alternative for the people that are using -current (developers etc). Ironically, the thing that was needed to "fix" userconfig was the setenv stuff, and now that we have it we could bring userconfig back. Even more ironically, this support was all but committed before somebody ELSE actually did kill it for good ("date: 2001/ 11/05 21:46:35; author: phk"). On the plus side, unplugging userconfig from life support was probably a good thing as it will force the development of a more user-friendly thing in loader. One way or another, this *will* be done by 5.0-R. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 10:49:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A046137B416; Sat, 4 May 2002 10:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g44HmTQ4037981; Sat, 4 May 2002 19:48:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Peter Wemm Cc: Wes Peters , John Baldwin , Terry Lambert , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: savcore dump names? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 04 May 2002 10:35:15 PDT." <20020504173515.4109D3811@overcee.wemm.org> Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 19:48:29 +0200 Message-ID: <37980.1020534509@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20020504173515.4109D3811@overcee.wemm.org>, Peter Wemm writes: >My concerns are pretty simple. You're chopping stuff out of a particularly >hairy bit of timing sensitive device driver code, not being able to test it >on the hardware that needs it, and all this for no apparent reason other >than that you do not like (or do not understand) it. ie: we do not gain >anything by it except risking breakage when the code gets used by more than >a handful of people. Well, I think reality is slightly different: I have removed a piece of code which I have spent the better part of 70 hours investigating, during which time I have not found one single place where it did anything of any difference. It is, by the way not at all timing sensitive, unless you do the next-page processing in software, which I am pretty certain we do not do anywhere in sys/dev/mii since the API wouldn't support it, neither at boot time nor later. By leaving it in, we risk having it copied & pasted to even more PHY drivers where it will only clutter up the source and prevent people from understanding what is going on. >In the light of the savecore fiasco, I'm worried that you are going to >simply respond and and say "Not my problem" when all hell breaks loose in 6 >to 12 months from now. When somebody upgrades their 4.x box to 5.0-REL and >their 'tl' card stops working because of your "simplification", will you >fix it? If you commit to that, then I'm no longer worried. I think there is a big difference. savecore is a userland program only slightly more complex than hello.c which anyone can make changes to, so saying "not my problem" is not a project disaster, despite what the totally out of proportion email trafic on the subject might lead one to belive. If this breaks the tl network driver, then it is not because I removed this code, then it is because the problem were not fixed in if_tl.c where it should have been originally, and if somebody reports such breakage I will do what I can to fix the problem. >This is not quite the same thing as userconfig. [...] You make this sound like resurrecting things from CVS is impossible, something both you, I and everybody else know is just plain wrong. I actually think it is quite the same as USERCONFIG. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 11: 0:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98F1C37B41B for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 11:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g44HxXQ4038215; Sat, 4 May 2002 19:59:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Dmitry Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: df(1) Broken in jail(8) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 04 May 2002 21:30:08 +0400." <20020504173008.GA92411@haali.cs.msu.ru> Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 19:59:33 +0200 Message-ID: <38214.1020535173@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20020504173008.GA92411@haali.cs.msu.ru>, Dmitry writes: >Actually I think the only good idea is to prevent jailed users from >getting any info about host with his jail. This has never been a design-goal of jail so far. >3) Jailed user must not have a way to find out he is in jail. Hmm, > seems it is too hard for now :) This is impossible. All he has to do is try one of the operations jails don't allow and he will know. Jails are not virtual machines. If you want to do true virtual machines, then you should do that instead of hacking on jail. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 11:43:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E0CA37B419 for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 11:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g44Ighb5031843; Sat, 4 May 2002 14:42:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 14:42:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: syscall changes to deal with 32->64 changes. In-Reply-To: <33534.1020505495@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 4 May 2002, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message , Rob > ert Watson writes: > > >Here's my opinion: if it's a change > >that can be made by one person in one week without boatloads of lasting > >compatibility and ABI concerns, and you're volunteering to do it, then I > >think it's a great idea. > > That's not even remotely close to realistic. Let me clarify what I meant there, it was way-the-heck-early-in-the-morning. What I'd like to bound is the flag procedure: that we try to avoid more than a week of disruption. Nothing says the internal kernel interfaces, etc, can't be upgraded gradually as you suggest, etc, just that we attempt to avoid extended breakage during the change in default ABI. > I think a realistic plan might look something like this: > > 1. Change the in-kernel types to 64 bits > for each entity to change size: > a) rewrite syscall entries to translate sizes. > b) change size in kernel, but retain old size in userland > > 2. Add new syscall API > a) write syscalls implementations. > > 3. Change userland over. > a) Add #ifdef NEWAPI all over the includes so people can select > which API to use. > b) Create new major-revv libc which uses new API > c) Leave people time to find bugs in ports etc. > d) Throw the switch for good. > > Earliest realistic dates would be 3c on juli 1st and 3d a month later. > > Is that too late for 5.0-R ? That's probably something to discuss with re@, etc. My personal opinion is that the ABI change would be alright through the end of August. I'd like to see it more on the timeframe you suggest. If we do this, then we do definitely need to have a DP3 using the new ABI, probably around Sept 1 or mid-August, to allow broader testing with the new ABI. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 13: 1:52 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail-green.research.att.com (mail-green.research.att.com [135.207.30.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 430CF37B417 for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 13:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alliance.research.att.com (alliance.research.att.com [135.207.26.26]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B1841E00B; Sat, 4 May 2002 16:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from windsor.research.att.com (windsor.research.att.com [135.207.26.46]) by alliance.research.att.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA21510; Sat, 4 May 2002 16:01:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fenner Received: (from fenner@localhost) by windsor.research.att.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.5) id NAA20158; Sat, 4 May 2002 13:01:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200205042001.NAA20158@windsor.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: des@ofug.org Subject: Re: patch for savecore Cc: davidc@acns.ab.ca, arch@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020503002436.98DA538FD@overcee.wemm.org> <3CD1E0E4.86406459@mindspring.com> <20020503012406.GL688@elvis.mu.org> <3CD1E90C.2CC55AED@mindspring.com> <20020502211910.A23535@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <3CD22B6D.10642F73@mindspring.com> <20020503112229.A852@colnta.acns.ab.ca> <20020503210130.A4114@colnta.acns.ab.ca> Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 13:01:44 -0700 Versions: dmail (solaris) 2.4/makemail 2.9b Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a conglomeration of Chad's patches, merged with mux's recent commit, and a bunch of old code from the CSRG savecore, which does holes too. One thing that I don't know how to do now is deal with copyright. PHK put a new notice on savecore.c, since he rewrote it from scratch, but now we've brought in a bunch of code from the old savecore.c which has the UCB copyright and license. I know it's a minor detail, but I really don't know what the right way to go is - presumably including the UCB copyright at the bottom of the PHK copyright is too verbse. Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 13: 6:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CEF337B41E for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 13:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g44K5bb5032547; Sat, 4 May 2002 16:05:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 16:05:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Bill Fenner Cc: des@ofug.org, davidc@acns.ab.ca, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: patch for savecore In-Reply-To: <200205042001.NAA20158@windsor.research.att.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 4 May 2002, Bill Fenner wrote: > I have a conglomeration of Chad's patches, merged with mux's recent > commit, and a bunch of old code from the CSRG savecore, which does holes > too. > > One thing that I don't know how to do now is deal with copyright. PHK > put a new notice on savecore.c, since he rewrote it from scratch, but > now we've brought in a bunch of code from the old savecore.c which has > the UCB copyright and license. I know it's a minor detail, but I really > don't know what the right way to go is - presumably including the UCB > copyright at the bottom of the PHK copyright is too verbse. Verbose maybe, but not without precedent in the tree. I'd go with that. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 13: 8:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19C2237B400 for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 13:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g44K7kQ4039816; Sat, 4 May 2002 22:07:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Bill Fenner Cc: des@ofug.org, davidc@acns.ab.ca, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: patch for savecore In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 04 May 2002 13:01:44 PDT." <200205042001.NAA20158@windsor.research.att.com> Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 22:07:46 +0200 Message-ID: <39815.1020542866@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200205042001.NAA20158@windsor.research.att.com>, Bill Fenner write s: > >I have a conglomeration of Chad's patches, merged with mux's recent >commit, and a bunch of old code from the CSRG savecore, which does >holes too. > >One thing that I don't know how to do now is deal with copyright. >PHK put a new notice on savecore.c, since he rewrote it from scratch, >but now we've brought in a bunch of code from the old savecore.c which >has the UCB copyright and license. I know it's a minor detail, but I >really don't know what the right way to go is - presumably including >the UCB copyright at the bottom of the PHK copyright is too verbse. Just nuke my copyright, and put it all under std BSD. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 13:52:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail-green.research.att.com (mail-green.research.att.com [135.207.30.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3A8337B404 for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 13:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alliance.research.att.com (alliance.research.att.com [135.207.26.26]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D5FB1E03A; Sat, 4 May 2002 16:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from windsor.research.att.com (windsor.research.att.com [135.207.26.46]) by alliance.research.att.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA21811; Sat, 4 May 2002 16:52:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fenner Received: (from fenner@localhost) by windsor.research.att.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.5) id NAA20568; Sat, 4 May 2002 13:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200205042052.NAA20568@windsor.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk Subject: Re: patch for savecore Cc: des@ofug.org, davidc@acns.ab.ca, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 13:52:23 -0700 Versions: dmail (solaris) 2.4/makemail 2.9b Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If I get rid of phk's copyright, should I update the dates on the UCB one or should I leave the latest copyright 1993? Should we worry about these copyrights expiring?... Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 13:53:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27D3337B419 for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 13:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g44KrPQ4040492; Sat, 4 May 2002 22:53:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Bill Fenner Cc: des@ofug.org, davidc@acns.ab.ca, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: patch for savecore In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 04 May 2002 13:52:23 PDT." <200205042052.NAA20568@windsor.research.att.com> Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 22:53:25 +0200 Message-ID: <40491.1020545605@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200205042052.NAA20568@windsor.research.att.com>, Bill Fenner write s: > >If I get rid of phk's copyright, should I update the dates on the >UCB one or should I leave the latest copyright 1993? Should we >worry about these copyrights expiring?... You should add 2002 to the copyright. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 15:31:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41B5437B416 for ; Sat, 4 May 2002 15:31:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g44MV4Qj009482; Sat, 4 May 2002 15:31:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g44MTk1I008217; Sat, 4 May 2002 15:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 15:29:46 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Bill Fenner Cc: phk@critter.freebsd.dk, des@ofug.org, davidc@acns.ab.ca, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: patch for savecore Message-ID: <20020504152946.B8162@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG Mail-Followup-To: David O'Brien , Bill Fenner , phk@critter.freebsd.dk, des@ofug.org, davidc@acns.ab.ca, arch@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200205042052.NAA20568@windsor.research.att.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200205042052.NAA20568@windsor.research.att.com>; from fenner@research.att.com on Sat, May 04, 2002 at 01:52:23PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 04, 2002 at 01:52:23PM -0700, Bill Fenner wrote: > > If I get rid of phk's copyright, should I update the dates on the > UCB one or should I leave the latest copyright 1993? Should we > worry about these copyrights expiring?... You cannot change the dates - UCB has not exserted their copyright for 2002. Either just use the last UCB savecore.c copyright before PHK's rewrite, or put both UCB and PHK's copyright in the file. Verbosity really isn't much we can do anything about. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 17:47:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au (mailman.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD9837B405; Sat, 4 May 2002 17:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bde.zeta.org.au (bde.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.102]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA26987; Sun, 5 May 2002 10:47:14 +1000 Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 10:48:54 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-X-Sender: bde@gamplex.bde.org To: "David O'Brien" Cc: Bill Fenner , , , , Subject: Re: patch for savecore In-Reply-To: <20020504152946.B8162@dragon.nuxi.com> Message-ID: <20020505104550.I710-100000@gamplex.bde.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 4 May 2002, David O'Brien wrote: > On Sat, May 04, 2002 at 01:52:23PM -0700, Bill Fenner wrote: > > > > If I get rid of phk's copyright, should I update the dates on the > > UCB one or should I leave the latest copyright 1993? Should we > > worry about these copyrights expiring?... > > You cannot change the dates - UCB has not exserted their copyright for > 2002. Either just use the last UCB savecore.c copyright before PHK's > rewrite, or put both UCB and PHK's copyright in the file. Verbosity > really isn't much we can do anything about. We haven't added our own copyrights or changed dates in copyrights for approximately 30000 of 30000+ files in /usr/src. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat May 4 17:47:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wemm.org (12-232-135-171.client.attbi.com [12.232.135.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E7237B419; Sat, 4 May 2002 17:47:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from overcee.wemm.org (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by fw.wemm.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g450lI418031; Sat, 4 May 2002 17:47:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.wemm.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B71EE3811; Sat, 4 May 2002 17:47:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Bill Fenner , phk@critter.freebsd.dk, des@ofug.org, davidc@acns.ab.ca, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: patch for savecore In-Reply-To: <20020504152946.B8162@dragon.nuxi.com> Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 17:47:13 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20020505004713.B71EE3811@overcee.wemm.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "David O'Brien" wrote: > On Sat, May 04, 2002 at 01:52:23PM -0700, Bill Fenner wrote: > > > > If I get rid of phk's copyright, should I update the dates on the > > UCB one or should I leave the latest copyright 1993? Should we > > worry about these copyrights expiring?... > > You cannot change the dates - UCB has not exserted their copyright for > 2002. Either just use the last UCB savecore.c copyright before PHK's > rewrite, or put both UCB and PHK's copyright in the file. Verbosity > really isn't much we can do anything about. Copyright 1993 UCB Copyright 2002 phk Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message