From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 16 1: 3:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net (scanmail4.cableone.net [24.116.0.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 890E237B40F; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 01:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net ([10.116.0.124]) by scanmail4.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sun, 16 Jun 2002 00:49:52 -0700 Received: from scanmail4.cableone.net [24.116.0.124] by scanmail4.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A32039C20118; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 00:49:52 -0700 Received: from fourohfour.ods.org (106-155.poncpe.cableone.net [24.116.106.155]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Sun, 16 Jun 2002 00:49:52 -0600 Message-ID: <3D0C43C8.1030407@fourohfour.ods.org> Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 02:52:40 -0500 From: Kevin Miller User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020530 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-stable Cc: freebsd-chat Subject: installing 4.6 from cd problems -- suggested solution Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SMTP-HELO: fourohfour.ods.org X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: sar@fourohfour.ods.org X-SMTP-RCPT-TO: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org,freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 106-155.poncpe.cableone.net [24.116.106.155] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I was having problems, as other have, installing 4.6 from cd. I posted to freebsd-chat just to test the water and see if anyone else was experiencing this also. I saw a post to freebsd-stable mentioning an addition to the /boot/loader.conf. Since it is kinda difficult to change that line in the loader.conf on a cd (unless its rewritable), I thought 'what about setting it at boot.' I tried just that, and it worked. I had to change the line in the /boot/loader.conf file once I got it installed so it would read the a cd w/out having the dma problem it was having during install, but at least it works now. The suggested line was: hw.ata.atapi_dma=1 and if you hit a key (other than Enter) at the bootloader prompt during CD boot, and type: set hw.ata.atapi_dma=1 it should let it install. Sorry if I said more than I should have, as far as 'anyone should know that', but I'm old to unix, but new to freebsd, and i had to learn by trial and error (along with burning 4 extra copies of the install CD before I saw the suggestion). Hope this helps. Kevin Miller BTW.. I have an AOpen 52x cdrom that it seems a majority of the people having this problem also have. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 16 10:44:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1467837B412; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 10:44:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bmah.dyndns.org ([12.233.149.189]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020616174419.NJZX11426.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@bmah.dyndns.org>; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 17:44:19 +0000 Received: from intruder.bmah.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by bmah.dyndns.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5GHiJUw014529; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 10:44:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah@intruder.bmah.org) Received: (from bmah@localhost) by intruder.bmah.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5GHiJKa014528; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 10:44:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200206161744.g5GHiJKa014528@intruder.bmah.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5+ 20020506 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Francisco Reyes Cc: "Bruce A. Mah" , FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: FreeBSD 4.6-RELEASE is now available In-Reply-To: <20020615221645.I14042-100000@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20020615221645.I14042-100000@zoraida.natserv.net> Comments: In-reply-to Francisco Reyes message dated "Sat, 15 Jun 2002 22:20:21 -0400." From: bmah@FreeBSD.ORG (Bruce A. Mah) Reply-To: bmah@FreeBSD.ORG X-Face: g~c`.{#4q0"(V*b#g[i~rXgm*w;:nMfz%_RZLma)UgGN&=j`5vXoU^@n5v4:OO)c["!w)nD/!!~e4Sj7LiT'6*wZ83454H""lb{CC%T37O!!'S$S&D}sem7I[A 2V%N&+ X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_1663667734P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 10:44:19 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --==_Exmh_1663667734P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If memory serves me right, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Bruce A. Mah wrote: > > > Acknowledgments > > --------------- > > > > Many companies donated equipment, network access, or man-hours to > > finance the release engineering activities for FreeBSD 4.6, including > > Compaq, Yahoo!, and The FreeBSD Mall. > > > I don't get this. > Compaq donated something to the effort, yet they don't even list FreeBSD > on their list of supported OSs. > > Have we tried to talk to the group/division that helped with the release > about having FreeBSD listed as a supported OS? 1. "Support" could mean a lot of things, not just engineering effort. Technically speaking, my employer donated some hours for me to work on the release, but we don't have it plastered all over the place. 2. I wasn't exactly sure this applied to the 4.6 release, but I figured (in my somewhat sleep-deprived state) it was better to leave it in if I wasn't sure. Sorry for any confusion this might have created but, bottom line, it isn't that big a deal. Cheers, Bruce. --==_Exmh_1663667734P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.5+ 20020506 iD8DBQE9DM5z2MoxcVugUsMRAmGaAKDGjqgN+HcQDEqPwHW7LEgB8b43eACdGFtP D7Fv169gxvrypioAsXDSmf8= =dfle -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_1663667734P-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 17 5: 8: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from versailles.domum.net (versailles.domum.net [199.181.107.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DD2637B412 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 05:07:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 1030) by versailles.domum.net with local; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 05:07:56 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 05:07:56 -0700 From: "Xan T. H. O'Chroic" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: so, uh... Message-ID: <20020617050756.A64636@versailles.domum.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Am I the only one who's found the spic(4) driver's name a bit...odd? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 17 6:42:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA5337B427 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 06:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zihua. ([65.65.97.112]) by mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GXU00EFMREY7O@mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 08:42:35 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 08:48:06 -0500 From: Christopher Mark Conn Subject: new list for unix sys admins To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-To: cmcgoat@swbell.net Message-id: <15629.59542.598382.675906@zihua> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.92 under Emacs 21.1.2 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi FreeBSDers I've put together a small discussion list for Unix Sys Admins, thought some of you might be interested. To subscribe send email to unix-sysadmin-subscribe@topica.com The list is not specific to any one flavor of Unix. Thanks, -- Chris Conn cmcgoat@swbell.net Leander, Texas (30N 97W) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 17 11:58:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from femme.listmistress.org (bgp01560565bgs.gambrl01.md.comcast.net [68.50.32.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E43D637B40B; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femme.listmistress.org (trish@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by femme.listmistress.org (8.12.3/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g5HIwhKB010495; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (trish@localhost) by femme.listmistress.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id g5HIwgCB010492; Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:58:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: femme.listmistress.org: trish owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:58:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Trish Lynch X-X-Sender: To: , Cc: Subject: MDFUG Announcement Message-ID: <20020617144210.L464-100000@femme.listmistress.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am pleased to announce the start of a local FreeBSD User Group in the DC/Baltimore/Annapolis area. We haven;t planned our first meeting yet, so get on the (discussion) mailing list by sending email to mdfug-request@bsdunix.net, and put "subscribe" in the message. We'll most likely be planning a place to meet over dinner and have a bit of fun :) To get on the announcement list, please do the same, but email mdfug-announce-request@bsdunix.net. Thanks! -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish@bsdunix.net FreeBSD The Power to Serve Ecartis Core Team trish@listmistress.org http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 1:40:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f218.law14.hotmail.com [64.4.21.218]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70C8A37B407; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 01:40:00 -0700 Received: from 195.235.247.100 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:39:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [195.235.247.100] From: "Bill Flamerola" To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: The problem with FreeBSD Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:39:57 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jun 2002 08:40:00.0301 (UTC) FILETIME=[BB9E9DD0:01C216A3] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Okay, this is not really intended as a flame, but kinda necessary, given the current situation in the FreeBSD camp. Let's see, some weeks ago a couple of people dropped their ports maintainership, why did this happen? Sergey dropped his ports because David O'Brien is an asshole. Yes, no news, we all know that. Asmodai resigned some days ago, why? Because fucking Bill Fumerola is a royal asshole. Has fucking Bill Fumerola ever done any worthwhile work for FreeBSD? NO. He prefers to spend his time flaming other people. FUCK YOU FUMEROLA! Jordan Hubbard left, Mike Smith left. Why? Because a large number of the people involved in FreeBSD are either assholes or hypocrites. What's the prefered game in #bsdcode? Right, flaming Terry Lambert. Terry may not be perfect, but he has *never* insulted anyone, he's a nice person to talk to, and pretty often comes up with nice ideas. I'm talking to you, fucking Hiten Pandya, damned asshole. And I'm talking to you, stupid Alfred Perlstein. Alfred is an interesting person. He seems to be drunk most of the time, has never contributed anything important to the project, yet he likes to flame around all the time. Matthew Dillon is one of the few hackers worth his salt, what does he get in return? A 5 day commit bit suspension. Matt, please, join NetBSD, they need help in the SMP code, and leave all these hypocrites alone. David O'Brien -> good hacker but a total asshole Dag-Erling Smorgrav -> a total asshole Alfred Perlstein -> drunktard and hypocrite Bill Fumerola -> The überasshole, FUCK FUMEROLA!!!! Kris Kennaway -> Hyprocrite Hiten Pandya -> an IMBECILE, grow up fucking moron You all owe Terry Lambert an apology, stupid hypocrites. To the rest of the people, jump shit now, and join NetBSD while you can. FreeBSD is not worth the hassle. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 4:13:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.inter7.com (ns1.inter7.com [209.218.8.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8105F37B40A for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 04:13:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 26346 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2002 11:13:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO niteone) (12.245.3.123) by evanston.inter7.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2002 11:13:11 -0000 Message-ID: <000701c216b9$2a0b4e20$7b03f50c@niteone> From: "Randall Hamilton" To: "Bill Flamerola" , Cc: References: Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 07:13:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Okay, this is not really intended as a flame, but kinda necessary, given the > current situation in the FreeBSD camp. > > Let's see, some weeks ago a couple of people dropped their ports > maintainership, why did this happen? Sergey dropped his ports because David > O'Brien is an asshole. Yes, no news, we all know that. Asmodai resigned some > days ago, why? Because fucking Bill Fumerola is a royal asshole. Has fucking > Bill Fumerola ever done any worthwhile work for FreeBSD? NO. He prefers to > spend his time flaming other people. FUCK YOU FUMEROLA! > > Jordan Hubbard left, Mike Smith left. Why? Because a large number of the > people involved in FreeBSD are either assholes or hypocrites. What's the > prefered game in #bsdcode? Right, flaming Terry Lambert. Terry may not be > perfect, but he has *never* insulted anyone, he's a nice person to talk to, > and pretty often comes up with nice ideas. I'm talking to you, fucking Hiten > Pandya, damned asshole. And I'm talking to you, stupid Alfred Perlstein. > Alfred is an interesting person. He seems to be drunk most of the time, has > never contributed anything important to the project, yet he likes to flame > around all the time. > > Matthew Dillon is one of the few hackers worth his salt, what does he get in > return? A 5 day commit bit suspension. Matt, please, join NetBSD, they need > help in the SMP code, and leave all these hypocrites alone. > > David O'Brien -> good hacker but a total asshole > Dag-Erling Smorgrav -> a total asshole > Alfred Perlstein -> drunktard and hypocrite > Bill Fumerola -> The überasshole, FUCK FUMEROLA!!!! > Kris Kennaway -> Hyprocrite > Hiten Pandya -> an IMBECILE, grow up fucking moron > > You all owe Terry Lambert an apology, stupid hypocrites. > > To the rest of the people, jump shit now, and join NetBSD while you can. > FreeBSD is not worth the hassle. right... and to bring all these VILE people to public knowledge...you use a hotmail addr and a name that we are supposed to see as 'witty' or 'clever'. please don't take the silence from the people on the respeced boards you decided to spam your email the wrong way....I'm sure most of us are shocked into silence from the profound and insightful statements you have made. well...that..or none of us really care what anonymous posters have to say. duck that identity...make full use of the internet to hide the source of your venting. bill...alfred..was some kid denied a port or something to warrent this silly temper tantrum? :) --randy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 8: 4:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tesla.distributel.net (nat.MTL.distributel.NET [66.38.181.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18EA137B409; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:04:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bmilekic@localhost) by tesla.distributel.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g5IF2RG12382; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:02:28 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bmilekic@unixdaemons.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:02:27 -0400 From: Bosko Milekic To: Bill Flamerola Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD Message-ID: <20020618110227.A12370@unixdaemons.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from flamerola@hotmail.com on Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 08:39:57AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bill H., is that you? On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 08:39:57AM +0000, Bill Flamerola wrote: > Okay, this is not really intended as a flame, but kinda necessary, given the > current situation in the FreeBSD camp. [...useless stuff...] -- Bosko Milekic bmilekic@unixdaemons.com bmilekic@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 8:24:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from clink.schulte.org (clink.schulte.org [209.134.156.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF8B737B401; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clink.schulte.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47A8D243C0; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:24:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from schulte-laptop.nospam.schulte.org (nb-65.netbriefings.com [209.134.134.65]) by clink.schulte.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FCE2243BE; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:24:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20020618101617.03ddde20@pop3s.schulte.org> X-Sender: (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:21:57 -0500 To: "Bill Flamerola" , hackers@freebsd.org From: Christopher Schulte Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre6 on clink.schulte.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:39 AM 6/18/2002 +0000, Bill Flamerola wrote: >Okay, this is not really intended as a flame, but kinda necessary, given >the current situation in the FreeBSD camp. OMG R U SERIOUS? Thx for the warning, I'll ditch FreeBSD and load NetBSD right now. >_________________________________________________________________ >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com Ahh yes, using a respected hotmail address... *giggle* thanks for the morning laugh. Don't feed the trolls, any more than is required for good humor. -- Christopher Schulte http://www.schulte.org/ Do not un-munge my @nospam.schulte.org email address. This address is valid. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 8:30:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [216.187.105.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3BC837B404; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:30:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5912E3F28; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:32:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" Organization: DVL Software Limited To: Christopher Schulte Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:30:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <5.1.1.6.2.20020618101617.03ddde20@pop3s.schulte.org> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Message-Id: <20020618153235.5912E3F28@bast.unixathome.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 18 Jun 2002 at 10:21, Christopher Schulte wrote: > At 08:39 AM 6/18/2002 +0000, Bill Flamerola wrote: > >Okay, this is not really intended as a flame, but kinda necessary, given > >the current situation in the FreeBSD camp. > > OMG R U SERIOUS? Thx for the warning, I'll ditch FreeBSD and load NetBSD > right now. I wonder if NetBSDDiary is available... -- Dan Langille To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 8:53:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4DFE37B40C; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 7F31FAE2AB; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:53:28 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Randall Hamilton Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD Message-ID: <20020618155328.GA12139@elvis.mu.org> References: <000701c216b9$2a0b4e20$7b03f50c@niteone> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000701c216b9$2a0b4e20$7b03f50c@niteone> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Randall Hamilton [020618 04:13] wrote: > > right... > and to bring all these VILE people to public knowledge...you use a hotmail > addr and a name that we are supposed to see as 'witty' or 'clever'. > > please don't take the silence from the people on the respeced boards you > decided to spam your email the wrong way....I'm sure most of us are shocked > into silence from the profound and insightful statements you have made. > > well...that..or none of us really care what anonymous posters have to say. > duck that identity...make full use of the internet to hide the source of > your venting. > > bill...alfred..was some kid denied a port or something to warrent this silly > temper tantrum? :) All I really have to say about the matter is that nothing says "lack of genitalia" like an anonymous hotmail account. :) -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 10:36:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [206.196.95.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6F8437B405; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5IHZw101024; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:35:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id g5IHZw315121; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:35:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from centtech.com (proton [10.177.173.77]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5IHZs615114; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:35:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3D0F6F7A.936C1C0E@centtech.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:35:54 -0500 From: Eric Anderson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kgasso@blort.org Cc: Brett Glass , Sheldon Hearn , security@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CDs with patched Apache? MOVING TO -CHAT References: <7957.1024403108@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <3D0F3010.A9F0995A@centtech.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020618094300.03202e50@localhost> <20020618095736.A89330@blort.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kameron Gasso wrote: > Seriously though, a project like this would require someone with both enough knowledge and enough free time to head it up. I know that with a full-time job and attempting to spend time with friends and family, I'm not left with much time available for things of this sort - and I'm sure other people who would love to pursue a project of this sort are in the same boat as well. > > If this is really something that the FreeBSD community is willing to go forward with, a team should be formed to decide how to best tackle this undertaking. > > Since we're starting to get a little offtopic here, I'll stop spamming -security with this thread. If anyone wishes to discuss this with me any further, I'd be happy to communicate off-list. > Well, since I threw the idea out there, I am more than willing to lead it, and of course work on it. Either way, I'm working on it. Anyone else? Eric [thread moved to -chat!] -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Torque, it makes the world go 'round. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 11:39:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web21102.mail.yahoo.com (web21102.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.227.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D215237B429 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:38:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20020618183743.37218.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.0.5] by web21102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:37:42 PDT Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:37:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Hiten Pandya Reply-To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD To: Bill Flamerola , hackers@freebsd.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --- Bill Flamerola wrote: > I'm talking to you, fucking Hiten Pandya, damned asshole. And I'm talking > to you, stupid Alfred Perlstein. Alfred is an interesting person. He seems I know this address of yours is shit, but I know you read this list. I think you are making nice fun out of your fucking self; I think you should go and screw yourself in a big tub of water. If you are so inclined on judging people, please do so that with people who are stupid enough to listen to you. > Matthew Dillon is one of the few hackers worth his salt, what does he get > in return? A 5 day commit bit suspension. Matt, please, join NetBSD, they > need help in the SMP code, and leave all these hypocrites alone. Get your facts right! > David O'Brien -> good hacker but a total asshole > Dag-Erling Smorgrav -> a total asshole > Alfred Perlstein -> drunktard and hypocrite > Bill Fumerola -> The überasshole, FUCK FUMEROLA!!!! > Kris Kennaway -> Hyprocrite > Hiten Pandya -> an IMBECILE, grow up fucking moron I think you are the IMBECILE MORON! I think you should be the one who should apologise to all the people you have just said bad things about. -- Hiten Pandya -- hiten@xMach.org, hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 11:45:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [206.196.95.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24BA37B401; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5IIjY102741; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 13:45:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id g5IIjYj18970; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 13:45:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from centtech.com (proton [10.177.173.77]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5IIjV618963; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 13:45:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3D0F7FCB.4117B704@centtech.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 13:45:31 -0500 From: Eric Anderson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hiten@uk.freebsd.org Cc: Bill Flamerola , hackers@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD References: <20020618183743.37218.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lets stop the thread now please. Hiten Pandya wrote: > > --- Bill Flamerola wrote: > > I'm talking to you, fucking Hiten Pandya, damned asshole. And I'm talking > > to you, stupid Alfred Perlstein. Alfred is an interesting person. He seems > > I know this address of yours is shit, but I know you read this list. > > I think you are making nice fun out of your fucking self; I think you should > go and screw yourself in a big tub of water. If you are so inclined on > judging people, please do so that with people who are stupid enough to listen > to you. > > > Matthew Dillon is one of the few hackers worth his salt, what does he get > > in return? A 5 day commit bit suspension. Matt, please, join NetBSD, they > > need help in the SMP code, and leave all these hypocrites alone. > > Get your facts right! > > > David O'Brien -> good hacker but a total asshole > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav -> a total asshole > > Alfred Perlstein -> drunktard and hypocrite > > Bill Fumerola -> The überasshole, FUCK FUMEROLA!!!! > > Kris Kennaway -> Hyprocrite > > > Hiten Pandya -> an IMBECILE, grow up fucking moron > > I think you are the IMBECILE MORON! I think you should be the one who > should apologise to all the people you have just said bad things about. > > -- Hiten Pandya > -- hiten@xMach.org, hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Torque, it makes the world go 'round. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 12:18:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BE1037B400; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dallben (pcp529856pcs.nash01.tn.comcast.net [68.52.131.181]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GXX007PG1N1IV@mtaout03.icomcast.net>; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 15:18:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 14:18:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brandon D. Valentine" Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD In-reply-to: <20020618155328.GA12139@elvis.mu.org> X-X-Sender: bandix@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20020618141343.K11808-100000@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >All I really have to say about the matter is that nothing says "lack of >genitalia" like an anonymous hotmail account. :) You have a way with words there, Alfred. To add insult to injury nothing says "lack of grey matter" like: "X-Originating-IP: [195.235.247.100]" [bandix@dallben ~]% whois 195.235.247.100 [snip] % This is the RIPE Whois server. % The objects are in RPSL format. % Please visit http://www.ripe.net/rpsl for more information. % Rights restricted by copyright. % See http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/pub-services/db/copyright.html inetnum: 195.235.247.96 - 195.235.247.111 netname: ALFONSOXELSABIO descr: Universidad Alfonso X El Sabio descr: Internet Public Addresses country: ES admin-c: RM5475-RIPE tech-c: RM5475-RIPE status: ASSIGNED PA mnt-by: MAINT-AS3352 changed: maria.lozanobarragan@telefonica-data.com 20010924 source: RIPE route: 195.235.0.0/16 descr: Telefonica Data Espan~a origin: AS3352 mnt-by: MAINT-AS3352 mnt-routes: MAINT-AS3352 mnt-lower: MAINT-AS3352 changed: administracion.ripe@telefonica-data.com 20010308 changed: administracion.ripe@telefonica-data.com 20020118 changed: administracion.ripe@telefonica-data.com 20020313 source: RIPE person: Raul Morata address: Universidad Alfonso X El Sabio address: Universidad, 1 address: Villanueva de la Canada 28691 (Madrid) address: SPAIN phone: +34 91 8105000 nic-hdl: RM5475-RIPE mnt-by: MAINT-AS3352 changed: olga.luna@telefonica-data.com 19991207 source: RIPE Anyone know who this might be? Probably wouldn't hurt for postmaster@FreeBSD.ORG to draft a polite email asking the admin on the other end of this pipe to LART his lame user. Brandon D. Valentine -- http://www.geekpunk.net bandix@geekpunk.net ++[>++++++<-]>[<++++++>-]<.>++++[>+++++<-]>[<+++++>-]<+.+++++++..++ +.>>+++++[<++++++>-]<++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 12:36:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [206.196.95.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53E6E37B405 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5IJaL103966; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 14:36:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id g5IJaLp21813; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 14:36:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from centtech.com (proton [10.177.173.77]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5IJaI621806; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 14:36:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3D0F8BB2.9D060EC1@centtech.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 14:36:18 -0500 From: Eric Anderson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Brandon D. Valentine" Cc: Alfred Perlstein , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD References: <20020618141343.K11808-100000@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm thinking anyone with an archive of emails for the list should be able to grep on the first three octets and get a winner. Eric "Brandon D. Valentine" wrote: > > On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > >All I really have to say about the matter is that nothing says "lack of > >genitalia" like an anonymous hotmail account. :) > > You have a way with words there, Alfred. > > To add insult to injury nothing says "lack of grey matter" like: > "X-Originating-IP: [195.235.247.100]" > > [bandix@dallben ~]% whois 195.235.247.100 > [snip] > % This is the RIPE Whois server. > % The objects are in RPSL format. > % Please visit http://www.ripe.net/rpsl for more information. > % Rights restricted by copyright. > % See http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/pub-services/db/copyright.html > > inetnum: 195.235.247.96 - 195.235.247.111 > netname: ALFONSOXELSABIO > descr: Universidad Alfonso X El Sabio > descr: Internet Public Addresses > country: ES > admin-c: RM5475-RIPE > tech-c: RM5475-RIPE > status: ASSIGNED PA > mnt-by: MAINT-AS3352 > changed: maria.lozanobarragan@telefonica-data.com 20010924 > source: RIPE > > route: 195.235.0.0/16 > descr: Telefonica Data Espan~a > origin: AS3352 > mnt-by: MAINT-AS3352 > mnt-routes: MAINT-AS3352 > mnt-lower: MAINT-AS3352 > changed: administracion.ripe@telefonica-data.com 20010308 > changed: administracion.ripe@telefonica-data.com 20020118 > changed: administracion.ripe@telefonica-data.com 20020313 > source: RIPE > > person: Raul Morata > address: Universidad Alfonso X El Sabio > address: Universidad, 1 > address: Villanueva de la Canada 28691 (Madrid) > address: SPAIN > phone: +34 91 8105000 > nic-hdl: RM5475-RIPE > mnt-by: MAINT-AS3352 > changed: olga.luna@telefonica-data.com 19991207 > source: RIPE > > Anyone know who this might be? Probably wouldn't hurt for > postmaster@FreeBSD.ORG to draft a polite email asking the admin on the > other end of this pipe to LART his lame user. > > Brandon D. Valentine > -- > http://www.geekpunk.net bandix@geekpunk.net > ++[>++++++<-]>[<++++++>-]<.>++++[>+++++<-]>[<+++++>-]<+.+++++++..++ > +.>>+++++[<++++++>-]<++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Torque, it makes the world go 'round. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 12:49:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8579C37B407; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04058; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 13:48:49 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook is dangerous and makes your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20020618134059.00e05bf0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 13:48:44 -0600 To: "Bill Flamerola" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:39 AM 6/18/2002, Bill Flamerola wrote: >Okay, this is not really intended as a flame, but kinda necessary, given the current situation in the FreeBSD camp. > >Let's see, some weeks ago a couple of people dropped their ports maintainership, why did this happen? Sergey dropped his ports because David O'Brien is an asshole. Yes, no news, we all know that. Asmodai resigned some days ago, why? Because fucking Bill Fumerola is a royal asshole. Has fucking Bill Fumerola ever done any worthwhile work for FreeBSD? NO. He prefers to spend his time flaming other people. FUCK YOU FUMEROLA! You actually make some good points about the nastiness of some people in the FreeBSD community. Alas, you discredit yourself by posting pseudonymously and by doing a great deal of flaming yourself. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 12:49:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2726237B41A for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:49:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dallben (pcp529856pcs.nash01.tn.comcast.net [68.52.131.181]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GXX0076T32ZPL@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 15:49:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 14:49:47 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brandon D. Valentine" Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD In-reply-to: <3D0F8BB2.9D060EC1@centtech.com> X-X-Sender: bandix@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net To: Eric Anderson Cc: Alfred Perlstein , chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20020618144723.H11808-100000@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Eric Anderson wrote: >I'm thinking anyone with an archive of emails for the list should be able to >grep on the first three octets and get a winner. Word. I don't keep much in the way of FreeBSD list archives on hand since I know I can always cvsup them from freefall if I need them. I don't care to suck up that much bandwidth right now just to find out who this was. Perhaps someone who has a fairly large archive handy will take the initiative. Brandon D. Valentine -- http://www.geekpunk.net bandix@geekpunk.net ++[>++++++<-]>[<++++++>-]<.>++++[>+++++<-]>[<+++++>-]<+.+++++++..++ +.>>+++++[<++++++>-]<++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 13: 1:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk (gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk [163.1.161.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 664D637B409 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 13:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 32331 invoked by uid 74); 18 Jun 2002 20:01:47 -0000 Received: from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk by gateway by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.12 (sweep: 2.10/3.57. . Clear:. Processed in 1.433098 secs); 18 Jun 2002 20:01:48 -0000 Received: from dhcp1125.wadham.ox.ac.uk (HELO piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.161.125) by gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 Jun 2002 20:01:46 -0000 X-Info-RBL1: ox.ac.uk filters email against various lists. X-Info-RBL2: If your replies bounce, try sending them to cperciva@sfu.ca Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.1.20020618205035.075884f0@popserver.sfu.ca> X-Sender: cperciva@popserver.sfu.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 21:01:43 +0100 To: chat@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org From: Colin Percival Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020618134059.00e05bf0@localhost> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 13:48 18/06/2002 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: >At 02:39 AM 6/18/2002, Bill Flamerola wrote: > >[snip] > >You actually make some good points about the nastiness of some people >in the FreeBSD community. I don't understand this. Where does all this nastiness happen? Maybe it's on -core. I don't read that. But in the year or so that I've been reading -security, -stable, and -hackers, I haven't seen any nastiness. I've seen people who disagree with each other, and I've seen people get annoyed when the same issues are brought up over and over again, but I really haven't seen anything which I'd call *nasty*. Can't we all be a bit more tolerant and get along with each other? Colin Percival To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 13: 8:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D93E937B40D; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 13:08:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dallben (pcp529856pcs.nash01.tn.comcast.net [68.52.131.181]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GXX007AJ3YNIV@mtaout03.icomcast.net>; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:08:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 15:08:47 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brandon D. Valentine" Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD In-reply-to: <4.3.2.7.2.20020618134059.00e05bf0@localhost> X-X-Sender: bandix@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net To: Brett Glass Cc: Bill Flamerola , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <20020618145405.C11808-100000@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Brett Glass wrote: >You actually make some good points about the nastiness of some people >in the FreeBSD community. Alas, you discredit yourself by posting >pseudonymously and by doing a great deal of flaming yourself. Perhaps you should qualify your definition of "good points". I saw no evidence behind any accusations made. I saw ad hominem attacks calling FreeBSD developers assholes and drunkards. Any points made by the author were merely begging the question. He gave no evidence that any of the attitudes of the people he mentioned were in some way detrimental to the project, he merely asserts that this must be true. He is also committing the sin of a /post hoc ergo propter hoc/ argument. The attitudes of a few developers within the FreeBSD community, if they are indeed causing a problem, may not be in any way related to the effects the poster was trying to justify cause for. Argument without substance is not argument at all. It's wasted breath and/or keystrokes. Brett, I've been reading your postings long enough to know you're an argumentative sort and also that your mien seems to be self-perpetuating because people now approach you as if to have an argument. Please understand I am not trying to argue with you. I am pointing out fallacies in someone else's opinions which I think you may have overlooked. I wish neither to defend the developers attacked by the poster nor defend the poster himself. Replies challenging me to do so will be directed to /dev/null. Brandon D. Valentine -- http://www.geekpunk.net bandix@geekpunk.net ++[>++++++<-]>[<++++++>-]<.>++++[>+++++<-]>[<+++++>-]<+.+++++++..++ +.>>+++++[<++++++>-]<++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 16: 1: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web.htc.sk (ns.htc.sk [195.146.149.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE97237B412 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Stanislav HADAC/Technical Support/HTC is out of the office. From: "Stanislav HADAC" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 01:00:50 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Domino/HTC(Release 5.0.9 |November 16, 2001) at 19.06.2002 01:01:00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I will be out of the office starting 13.06.2002 and will not return until 24.06.2002. I will respond to your message when I return. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 16: 9:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ucan.foad.org (ucan.foad.org [64.173.36.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB33137B404 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pde@localhost) by ucan.foad.org (foad/FOAD2.0) id g5IN9IG08093 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:09:18 -0700 From: Pete Ehlke To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stanislav HADAC/Technical Support/HTC is out of the office. Message-ID: <20020618160918.A5769@ehlke.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from shadac@htc.sk on Wed, Jun 19, 2002 at 01:00:50AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jun 19, 2002 at 01:00:50AM +0200, Stanislav HADAC wrote: > I will be out of the office starting 13.06.2002 and will not return until > 24.06.2002. > > I will respond to your message when I return. > Sigh. What is it about Lotus Notes that makes people fail to exempt mailing lists from OOO messages? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 18 17:24: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from spork.pantherdragon.org (spork.pantherdragon.org [206.29.168.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E60537B409 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:23:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spark.techno.pagans (spark.techno.pagans [4.61.202.145]) by spork.pantherdragon.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEC20471DA; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pantherdragon.org (speck.techno.pagans [172.21.42.2]) by spark.techno.pagans (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD2CFFDA0; Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3D0FCF14.9EB4DB7F@pantherdragon.org> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:23:48 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pete Ehlke Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stanislav HADAC/Technical Support/HTC is out of the office. References: <20020618160918.A5769@ehlke.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Pete Ehlke wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2002 at 01:00:50AM +0200, Stanislav HADAC wrote: > > I will be out of the office starting 13.06.2002 and will not return until > > 24.06.2002. > > > > I will respond to your message when I return. > > > Sigh. > > What is it about Lotus Notes that makes people fail to exempt mailing > lists from OOO messages? Pick (you may choose more than one): 1. He's an overworked support tech who made a simple oversight due to the excitement of finally getting to take his paid vacation time. 2. He's an overworked support tech who made a simple oversight due to the excitement of finally convincing his boss to let him go to one of those fluffy conventions where they do nothing but throw shiny propaganda and free stuff at you on company time (I count them as vacations). 3. He's an overworked support tech who didn't make a simple oversight, but instead has dropped dead/gone insane due to stress, and the message has been quickly but in place by someone who has no clue about the exclude function. 4. Despite how many times every one of us has wished for it, there is no minimum proficiency requirement and demerit system to use the internet. 5. Despite how many times every one of us has wished for it, offline LARTing using heavy media is still illegal in most countries. 6. Despite how many times every one of us has wished for it, there is no law against stupidity. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 19 3: 1:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from femme.listmistress.org (bgp01560565bgs.gambrl01.md.comcast.net [68.50.32.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA4F737B401; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 03:01:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femme.listmistress.org (trish@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by femme.listmistress.org (8.12.3/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g5J8pvKB018812; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 04:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (trish@localhost) by femme.listmistress.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id g5J8lpm9018798; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 04:51:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: femme.listmistress.org: trish owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 04:45:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Trish Lynch X-X-Sender: To: Bill Flamerola Cc: , Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020619043457.K464-100000@femme.listmistress.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Bill Flamerola wrote: > Okay, this is not really intended as a flame, but kinda necessary, given the > current situation in the FreeBSD camp. > If its neccesary, then stand up and use your real name. Messages are not carried around here by anonymous emailers. > > Jordan Hubbard left, Mike Smith left. Why? Because, honestly, FreeBSD got old for them? People leave. Get over it. > What's the > prefered game in #bsdcode? Right, flaming Terry Lambert. Actually,I don;t think thats the case, a number of times I've said that I like Terry's posts. Sometimes informative, sometimes entertaining, sometimes a little too obvous trolling. I think theres only one fault with Terry :) (forgive me Terry, because I've learned a lot from you). And that problem is that he has to say something about everything :) Many peopleon #bsdcode have come to Terry's defense. > Terry may not be > perfect, but he has *never* insulted anyone, he's a nice person to talk to, > and pretty often comes up with nice ideas. Yep. > I'm talking to you, fucking Hiten Pandya, damned asshole. Hiten is young, he'll learn, since when does Hiten have any say in the direction of FreeBSD as a whole? > And I'm talking to you, stupid Alfred Perlstein. > Alfred is an interesting person. He seems to be drunk most of the time, has > never contributed anything important to the project, yet he likes to flame > around all the time. As someone who has known Alfred a long time, yes, he can be an asshole, he also does a hell of a lot of work, is willing to do "grunt" work, and while these aren;t huge projects, he's filled in where needed. That says so much more for his willingness to actually do something to advance the project as a whole. > > Matthew Dillon is one of the few hackers worth his salt, what does he get in > return? A 5 day commit bit suspension. Matt, please, join NetBSD, they need > help in the SMP code, and leave all these hypocrites alone. Matt makes his decisions based on what Matt wants to do. The commit bit thing has been going on ever since I can remember. If Matt wanted to leave, he would have done so long ago. One of the reasons I admire Matt so much is because he keeps going despite the politics. > > To the rest of the people, jump shit now, and join NetBSD while you can. > FreeBSD is not worth the hassle. > TIme for you to jump ship or show yourself for who you are, instead of being a coward and hiding behind a hotmail address. -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish@bsdunix.net FreeBSD The Power to Serve Ecartis Core Team trish@listmistress.org http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 19 8:19:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30DF737B409; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 017EFAE162; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:19:44 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Trish Lynch Cc: Bill Flamerola , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD Message-ID: <20020619151944.GB85935@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020619043457.K464-100000@femme.listmistress.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020619043457.K464-100000@femme.listmistress.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Trish Lynch [020619 03:01] wrote: > On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Bill Flamerola wrote: > > > And I'm talking to you, stupid Alfred Perlstein. > > Alfred is an interesting person. He seems to be drunk most of the time, has > > never contributed anything important to the project, yet he likes to flame > > around all the time. > > As someone who has known Alfred a long time, yes, he can be an asshole, he > also does a hell of a lot of work, is willing to do "grunt" work, and > while these aren;t huge projects, he's filled in where needed. That says > so much more for his willingness to actually do something to advance the > project as a whole. I must commend your ability to pretend to stick up for someone and at the same time call them names and belittle their work. The difference between you and I is that I know when I'm being an asshole, you seem to be having a good time being able to blunder about not realizing it for the good part of your life. -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 19 8:29:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from femme.listmistress.org (bgp01560565bgs.gambrl01.md.comcast.net [68.50.32.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8324037B41F; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femme.listmistress.org (trish@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by femme.listmistress.org (8.12.3/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g5JFSmKB020396; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:28:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (trish@localhost) by femme.listmistress.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id g5JFSk2C020393; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:28:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: femme.listmistress.org: trish owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:28:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Trish Lynch X-X-Sender: To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Trish Lynch , Bill Flamerola , , Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20020619151944.GB85935@elvis.mu.org> Message-ID: <20020619112745.H464-100000@femme.listmistress.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Trish Lynch [020619 03:01] wrote: > > On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Bill Flamerola wrote: > > > > > And I'm talking to you, stupid Alfred Perlstein. > > > Alfred is an interesting person. He seems to be drunk most of the time, has > > > never contributed anything important to the project, yet he likes to flame > > > around all the time. > > > > As someone who has known Alfred a long time, yes, he can be an asshole, he > > also does a hell of a lot of work, is willing to do "grunt" work, and > > while these aren;t huge projects, he's filled in where needed. That says > > so much more for his willingness to actually do something to advance the > > project as a whole. > > I must commend your ability to pretend to stick up for someone and > at the same time call them names and belittle their work. > > The difference between you and I is that I know when I'm being an > asshole, you seem to be having a good time being able to blunder > about not realizing it for the good part of your life. > If you would like to take offense, do so. Obviously you didn't really see what I was saying. It weas not meant to be belittling or anything of the sort. If you would like to take it that way, go ahead. -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish@bsdunix.net FreeBSD The Power to Serve Ecartis Core Team trish@listmistress.org http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 19 8:33:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [206.196.95.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1632A37B481; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5JFXK129533; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:33:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id g5JFXKa13738; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:33:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from centtech.com (proton [10.177.173.77]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5JFXH613726; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:33:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3D10A43D.D21D189D@centtech.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:33:17 -0500 From: Eric Anderson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Trish Lynch Cc: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD References: <20020619112745.H464-100000@femme.listmistress.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Don't give in to the dark side of the Force! This is exactly what Mr Hotmail wanted.. Eric ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology He who laughs last didn't get the joke. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 19 8:41: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 723D337B40D for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 4422AAE1C1; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:41:00 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Trish Lynch Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD Message-ID: <20020619154100.GC85935@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020619151944.GB85935@elvis.mu.org> <20020619112745.H464-100000@femme.listmistress.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020619112745.H464-100000@femme.listmistress.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Trish Lynch [020619 08:29] wrote: > On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > I must commend your ability to pretend to stick up for someone and > > at the same time call them names and belittle their work. > > > > The difference between you and I is that I know when I'm being an > > asshole, you seem to be having a good time being able to blunder > > about not realizing it for the good part of your life. > > > > If you would like to take offense, do so. Obviously you didn't really see > what I was saying. It weas not meant to be belittling or anything of the > sort. If you would like to take it that way, go ahead. The original poster made no mention of me being an "asshole", and neither qualified/quantified the work that I've been doing in such a negative light. You my, "friend" decided to do that yourself. This is why you should be more aware of how much of an ass you are. I'm pretty sure you're actually somewhat aware of what a jerk you are, however by being an unapologizing idiot about it you feel free to take pot shots and not bother apologizing. So get stuffed, do not refer to us as friends in the future, your whiny unstable tirade a week or so ago in response to my attempt to help, followed by this ranting, raving and lameness is quite enough to reinforce why I choose not to associate with you. Every time I associate with you I am stupider for having done so and everytime you choose to associate with my my teeth cringe. I have no idea what the hell happened to you the last couple of years but I will not play a part in it any longer. I really hope this is enough of a clue that I don't want your "help" or "friendship" any longer. thanks, -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 19 9: 5:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from femme.listmistress.org (bgp01560565bgs.gambrl01.md.comcast.net [68.50.32.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A61A737B400; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femme.listmistress.org (trish@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by femme.listmistress.org (8.12.3/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g5JG5BKB020589; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (trish@localhost) by femme.listmistress.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id g5JG5AuG020586; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:05:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: femme.listmistress.org: trish owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:05:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Trish Lynch X-X-Sender: To: Cc: Subject: Alfred and Trish crap Message-ID: <20020619120059.M464-100000@femme.listmistress.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org has now been taken offlist, if he wants to feel free to air dirty laundry on-list, I don't honestly. Sorry for the disruption, I will however publically apologize that I said something that he took offense to in defense of him. Being the one who does "grunt" work is a thankless job, and I was attempting to bring some attention to it. Its like the Marines, first-in-last-out. But I realize that my ramblings at 3 am may have offended, and for that I'm sorry. It was not meant to be an attack or anything else. But since this has no happened, I have decided to also leave the BSD community. With a baby on the way, and a family to deal with soon, I really have no time for the petty arguments and politics happening lately. I hope that my last few years helping out in the advocacy areas was productive. Sorry that I gave "Mr. Hotmail" what he wanted, but I don;t have time for this. -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish@bsdunix.net FreeBSD The Power to Serve Ecartis Core Team trish@listmistress.org http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 19 9:17:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tesla.distributel.net (nat.MTL.distributel.NET [66.38.181.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3E8037B408 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bmilekic@localhost) by tesla.distributel.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g5JGEVR18661; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:14:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bmilekic@unixdaemons.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:14:31 -0400 From: Bosko Milekic To: Trish Lynch Cc: Alfred Perlstein , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD Message-ID: <20020619121431.B18434@unixdaemons.com> References: <20020619151944.GB85935@elvis.mu.org> <20020619112745.H464-100000@femme.listmistress.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020619112745.H464-100000@femme.listmistress.org>; from trish@bsdunix.net on Wed, Jun 19, 2002 at 11:28:46AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [-hackers spared, but this also applies to -chat] Can we please stop this nonsense or at least take it off the lists? As it has been mentionned, why not use the already-named IRC channel to vent your anger out? Heck, that's what it's mostly for (that and the occasional valuable technical discussion). Also, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop responding to posts like those we have seen from Mr. Flamerola; you should know that "putting your foot down" means absolutely nothing and will _not_ get you anywhere when you're dealing with people who have already made up their little pea-sized minds. So, please, just give up already. On Wed, Jun 19, 2002 at 11:28:46AM -0400, Trish Lynch wrote: > On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Bill Flamerola wrote: [...] -- Bosko Milekic bmilekic@unixdaemons.com bmilekic@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 19 9:31:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6EBC37B401; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20476; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:31:08 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook is dangerous and makes your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20020619102758.023b2960@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:30:59 -0600 To: "Brandon D. Valentine" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD Cc: Bill Flamerola , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20020618145405.C11808-100000@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020618134059.00e05bf0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:08 PM 6/18/2002, Brandon D. Valentine wrote: >Perhaps you should qualify your definition of "good points". I saw no >evidence behind any accusations made. I saw ad hominem attacks calling >FreeBSD developers assholes Some of them do act that way at times. >and drunkards. Don't know about that part. >Brett, I've been reading your postings long enough to know you're an >argumentative sort Am not! ;-) >and also that your mien seems to be self-perpetuating >because people now approach you as if to have an argument. Some people seem to WANT arguments, and intentionally approach people whom they think will give them a challenging one. They do this to Terry and others too. I'm reminded of the Monty Python skit: "I'd like an argument, please." Alas, as in the skit, they too often wind up hurling abuse (which may have been what they really wanted to do). --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 19 11:52:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from vienna9.his.com (vienna9.his.com [216.200.68.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2D5B37B400 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [1.141.31.164] (root@LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by vienna9.his.com (8.11.6/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5J9x7n01570; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 05:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D0F8BB2.9D060EC1@centtech.com> References: <20020618141343.K11808-100000@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net> <3D0F8BB2.9D060EC1@centtech.com> X-Grok: +++ath X-WebTV-Stationery: Standard; BGColor=black; TextColor=black Reply-By: Wed, 1 Jan 1984 12:34:56 +0100 X-Message-Flag: Your copy of Outlook will expire in 3 days. Please contact Microsoft about purchasing a new license. Remember: software piracy is a felony! Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:43:57 +0200 To: Eric Anderson , "Brandon D. Valentine" From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: The problem with FreeBSD Cc: Alfred Perlstein , chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 2:36 PM -0500 2002/06/18, Eric Anderson wrote: > I'm thinking anyone with an archive of emails for the list should be able to > grep on the first three octets and get a winner. I won't pretend I have a complete list of -chat archives, but I have kept a reasonable archive going back two or so years. I searched through all current and archived folders for the string "195.235" and came up with only the recent hits we already know about. Someone else is going to have to do the same for the other mailing lists. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 19 11:52:52 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from vienna9.his.com (vienna9.his.com [216.200.68.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E8E037B405; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [1.141.31.164] (root@LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by vienna9.his.com (8.11.6/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g5J9N1n00541; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 05:23:16 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020617144210.L464-100000@femme.listmistress.org> References: <20020617144210.L464-100000@femme.listmistress.org> X-Grok: +++ath X-WebTV-Stationery: Standard; BGColor=black; TextColor=black Reply-By: Wed, 1 Jan 1984 12:34:56 +0100 X-Message-Flag: Your copy of Outlook will expire in 3 days. Please contact Microsoft about purchasing a new license. Remember: software piracy is a felony! Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:57:28 +0200 To: Trish Lynch , , From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: MDFUG Announcement Cc: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 2:58 PM -0400 2002/06/17, Trish Lynch wrote: > I am pleased to announce the start of a local FreeBSD User Group in the > DC/Baltimore/Annapolis area. You may want to send a notice to the OldBaySAGE and dc.sage groups. They're the two main SAGE locals in the DC & Baltimore areas. See and . -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 19 16: 6:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C42137B41A; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i8k.babbleon.org ([66.57.86.84]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:00:47 -0400 Received: by i8k.babbleon.org (Postfix, from userid 111) id 3E3ECBB2C; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Brian T.Schellenberger To: Trish Lynch , Subject: Re: Alfred and Trish crap Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:00:34 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3] Cc: References: <20020619120059.M464-100000@femme.listmistress.org> In-Reply-To: <20020619120059.M464-100000@femme.listmistress.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020619200034.3E3ECBB2C@i8k.babbleon.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday 19 June 2002 12:05 pm, Trish Lynch wrote: | has now been taken offlist, if he wants to feel free to air dirty laundry | on-list, I don't honestly. | | Sorry for the disruption, I will however publically apologize that I said | something that he took offense to in defense of him. I certainly read it as a compliment, but it's nice of you to apologize anyway. | Being the one who does "grunt" work is a thankless job, and I was | attempting to bring some attention to it. Its like the Marines, | first-in-last-out. But I realize that my ramblings at 3 am may have | offended, and for that I'm sorry. It was not meant to be an attack or | anything else. But since this has no happened, I have decided to also | leave the BSD community. With a baby on the way, and a family to deal with | soon, I really have no time for the petty arguments and politics happening | lately. I hope that my last few years helping out in the advocacy areas | was productive. Of course nobody begrudges you favoring family over O/S, and petty arguments can wear on one, but please . . . | Sorry that I gave "Mr. Hotmail" what he wanted, but I don;t have time for | this. Just ignore it. Responding (directly or indirectly) to a troll like "Mr. Hotmail" like this is just a crying shame. | -Trish -- Brian T. Schellenberger . . . . . . . bts@wnt.sas.com (work) Brian, the man from Babble-On . . . . bts@babbleon.org (personal) http://www.babbleon.org http://www.eff.org http://www.programming-freedom.org If you smell the smoke you don't need to be told what you've got to do; Yet there's a certain breed, so very in-between, they'd rather take a vote. -- DEVO -- Here To Go To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 19 19:52:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.iprimus.net.au (smtp01.iprimus.net.au [203.134.64.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4206E37B415 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sagan.tpn ([211.26.52.132]) by smtp01.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4617); Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:52:48 +1000 Received: by sagan.tpn (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4F9C08EAC; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 14:57:25 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 14:53:41 +0930 From: Shaun Branden To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org.au Subject: Australian government claim ping ? Message-ID: <20020619145341.A1615@sagan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jun 2002 02:52:48.0574 (UTC) FILETIME=[8FC4D5E0:01C21805] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.consumerping.gov.au/pingfaq.htm Interesting use, name and selling techniques (no we do not store the information, we just use it to build a profile on you) shaun -- Shaun Branden; email: shaun@pcuse.com; icq: 10469563 URL: www.pcuse.com; Computerbank: www.linunix.com/cbsa Fingerprint: 2571 65A6 1F38 0168 63CB BCE5 CA20 7F19 AA92 1949 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 20 7:55:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f282.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44B8A37B404; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:55:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:55:16 -0700 Received: from 195.235.247.100 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:55:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [195.235.247.100] From: "Bill Fumerola" To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:55:15 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jun 2002 14:55:16.0116 (UTC) FILETIME=[7CEAD540:01C2186A] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mmmkay, So some people have privately e-mailed asking me who I am. I'll give a hint, yes, I am a committer, and no, I'm not Bill Huey. Now some fast comments... Hiten: YHBT. YHL. HAND. MORON Trish: Too bad you left, actually Alfred is an *asshole*, too bad. Alfred: You're a clueless fuckwit indeed. Fumerola: Fuck you Fumerola! Patrick Li: You're a hypocrite. The BSD license is about freedom, but you closed my PR without reason. It took me time to code that game, and there are at least 2,500 people interested in using it, why close it? games/fumerola will live for ever! I want to apologize for putting Kris in my asshole list, wasn't really intended. I hope more committers join the FFL license movement. Btw, vote for me for the core elections :) Yours, Bill Fumerola _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 20 9:24:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3EDC37B415; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dallben (pcp529856pcs.nash01.tn.comcast.net [68.52.131.181]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GY00028JIWQP8@mtaout02.icomcast.net>; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:24:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:24:26 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brandon D. Valentine" Subject: Re: FreeBSD In-reply-to: X-X-Sender: bandix@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net To: billf@freebsd.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20020620111751.F753-100000@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Bill Fumerola wrote: >So some people have privately e-mailed asking me who I am. I'll give a hint, >yes, I am a committer, and no, I'm not Bill Huey. Different hotmail account[0], same X-Originating-IP. If billf@freebsd.org would reply to this email confirming that this is indeed an attempt at identity theft it would be appreciated. [0] - s/flamerola/fumerola/ this time around. Brandon D. Valentine -- http://www.geekpunk.net bandix@geekpunk.net ++[>++++++<-]>[<++++++>-]<.>++++[>+++++<-]>[<+++++>-]<+.+++++++..++ +.>>+++++[<++++++>-]<++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 20 9:30:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEA2037B476 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from corto.lpt.ens.fr (corto.lpt.ens.fr [129.199.122.2]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id g5KGU3o04776 ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:30:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from (rsidd@localhost) by corto.lpt.ens.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.1) id SAA69898 ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:30:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:30:03 +0200 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: "Brandon D. Valentine" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Message-ID: <20020620183003.R39384@lpt.ens.fr> References: <20020620111751.F753-100000@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020620111751.F753-100000@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net>; from bandix@geekpunk.net on Thu, Jun 20, 2002 at 11:24:26AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brandon D. Valentine said on Jun 20, 2002 at 11:24:26: > > Different hotmail account[0], same X-Originating-IP. If > billf@freebsd.org would reply to this email confirming that this is > indeed an attempt at identity theft it would be appreciated. *Obviously* it's identity theft, so what are you going to do about it? oooooooooo. o8o . `888' `Y8b `YP .o8 888 888 .ooooo. ooo. .oo. ' .o888oo 888 888 d88' `88b `888P"Y88b 888 888 888 888 888 888 888 888 888 d88' 888 888 888 888 888 . o888bood8P' `Y8bod8P' o888o o888o "888" .o88o. .o8 . oooo 888 `" "888 .o8 `888 o888oo .ooooo. .ooooo. .oooo888 .o888oo 888 .oo. .ooooo. 888 d88' `88b d88' `88b d88' `888 888 888P"Y88b d88' `88b 888 888ooo888 888ooo888 888 888 888 888 888 888ooo888 888 888 .o 888 .o 888 888 888 . 888 888 888 .o o888o `Y8bod8P' `Y8bod8P' `Y8bod88P" "888" o888o o888o `Y8bod8P' . oooo oooo .o8 `888 `888 .o888oo oooo d8b .ooooo. 888 888 888 `888""8P d88' `88b 888 888 888 888 888 888 888 888 888 . 888 888 888 888 888 "888" d888b `Y8bod8P' o888o o888o - Rahul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 20 9:38:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 536A037B404 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dallben (pcp529856pcs.nash01.tn.comcast.net [68.52.131.181]) by mtaout06.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 13 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GY000KGAJJL3Y@mtaout06.icomcast.net> for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:38:09 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brandon D. Valentine" Subject: Re: FreeBSD In-reply-to: <20020620183003.R39384@lpt.ens.fr> X-X-Sender: bandix@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <20020620113201.S753-100000@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: >*Obviously* it's identity theft, so what are you going to do about it? [obnoxious ascii art snipped] What I'm going to do about it is make sure there is no doubt in anyone's mind about it so the casual passerby doesn't mistake the statements for those of billf. Then I'm going to try and track down the source of these emails and report them to the appropriate administrators because: a) I don't wish this little charade to continue. It's filling up my mailspool and annoying the piss out of me. b) if one of my users was doing something like this I would want to be informed so I could LART them with the heftiest Clue-by-four in the toolshed. I have no intention of feeding the troll, so save your two 80x24 terminals worth of ascii art for someone who has time to deal with such nonsense. Brandon D. Valentine -- http://www.geekpunk.net bandix@geekpunk.net ++[>++++++<-]>[<++++++>-]<.>++++[>+++++<-]>[<+++++>-]<+.+++++++..++ +.>>+++++[<++++++>-]<++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 20 10:26:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from clink.schulte.org (clink.schulte.org [209.134.156.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8515237B406; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clink.schulte.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97816243F7; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:26:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from schulte-laptop.nospam.schulte.org (nb-65.netbriefings.com [209.134.134.65]) by clink.schulte.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55E2B243C2; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:26:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20020620121900.04152e60@pop3s.schulte.org> X-Sender: (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:23:36 -0500 To: "Brandon D. Valentine" , billf@freebsd.org From: Christopher Schulte Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20020620111751.F753-100000@dallben.homeportal.2wire.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre6 on clink.schulte.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:24 AM 6/20/2002 -0500, Brandon D. Valentine wrote: >Different hotmail account[0], same X-Originating-IP. If >billf@freebsd.org would reply to this email confirming that this is >indeed an attempt at identity theft it would be appreciated. > >[0] - s/flamerola/fumerola/ this time around. That IP seems to like random hotmail.com addresses - a google search brings up a few more addresses used @hotmail. Public silence is probably the best deterrent to this type of abuse, with a few abuse reports to ISP, hotmail, so on. >Brandon D. Valentine >-- >http://www.geekpunk.net bandix@geekpunk.net >++[>++++++<-]>[<++++++>-]<.>++++[>+++++<-]>[<+++++>-]<+.+++++++..++ >+.>>+++++[<++++++>-]<++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+. -- Christopher Schulte http://www.schulte.org/ Do not un-munge my @nospam.schulte.org email address. This address is valid. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 20 22: 6:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.gbronline.com (mail.gbronline.com [12.145.226.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E943F37B403 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from daleco [12.145.236.206] by mail.gbronline.com (SMTPD32-7.10) id A41118B60094; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:05:21 -0500 Message-ID: <00b901c218e1$6229a5c0$ceec910c@daleco> From: "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: Subject: Low impact, high value training? (wish me luck!!) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:06:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm interested in some computer training of some sort. I'm trying to just make a bit more $$ than I have been in other fields. However, the last time I was in a classroom as a students when the topic was computers was in the 1970s. (Anyone remember Apple's IIe and PRODOS? I have taught myself enough to run various OSes with some success and am building up a small service/consulting business in this backwater part of the world. For the most part my customers are satisfied, and my competitors haven't yet comie to beat me up. My question is, is any training out there worth much, short of another degree? Here's something that worries me: I visited a customer this week for several hours. She had a M$ system that runs like a (original) 1939 Packard on diesel with half the valves stuck... you get the idea ... :-) Obviously she's no good at tweaking a system. She has a professional photography business, but claims to have university/college training in computers, including programming in C++. She said she made As & Bs (high marks, for those familiar with other terminology...). She wants me to build her another system, so I quoted several configurations ... As I was fighting with her Windoze, she came in, pointed to the field on the quote form that said "Processor type and speed" and asked, "What is this talking about?" If I can learn more in a few years of practical experience and late night www-surfing than she can in college courses, what's the point of training? I'm not knocking anyone with a CS degree of any type (she obviously doesn't have one....) I just don't think that attending a course or two here in SW Missouri is going to help a lot. Any thoughts? TIA, Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 21 2: 2:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.higlobe.net (smtp.higlobe.net [203.255.112.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D012937B412 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 02:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.r114.co.kr ([203.227.18.77]) by smtp.higlobe.net (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g5L94eR6013173 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:04:42 +0900 (KST) Received: from mail pickup service by mail.r114.co.kr with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:31:13 +0900 From: "=?euc-kr?B?wM7FzbPdx9C9wLW1v+y5zA==?=" To: Subject: =?euc-kr?B?sPjCpSEhIMH2sd0gyLi/+LXut8/Hz73DuOkgx9C9wMDat+GwoSCw+A==?= =?euc-kr?B?wqXA1LTPtNkuICAqsaQqsO0qXl5bSU5GT1dXV19NQUlMXQ==?= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:31:11 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01A0_01C218F5.9DE1F2C0" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jun 2002 22:31:13.0125 (UTC) FILETIME=[2EF72150:01C218AA] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01A0_01C218F5.9DE1F2C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 CQ0KIAkgIAkgCQ0KDQoJDQoJCQkgCSDIqMbkwMzB9rfOILyzwaQNCiDB8bDcw6Ox4r+hIMPfsKEg CQ0KCQkJDQoJDQoNCgkgDQoJx9C9wMDat+EsIL3Dx+gvvPbH6CDA2rfhICEgLCDAzMGmIHd3dy5p bmZvd3d3LmNvLmtyDQo8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5pbmZvd3d3LmNvLmtyPiC3ziC/wLy8v+QuDQoJDQog CTW60L7Iv6Egv6m3r7rQwMwgv/jHz7TCIMDat+G4piDDo8C7vPYgwNa9wLTPtNkuDQogIAkNCiAJ v+y4riDH0LGzIMfQvcDA2rfhIL7utruw1CDDo77Gv+Q/ICi/7LiuIMfQsbMgwNq34bW1IMOjwLsg vPYgwNazqr/kPykJIA0KIAlJTkZPd3d3tMIgwfa/qrqwIMfQsbMgw6Ox4iwgx9Cz4rqwIMOjseIs ILD6uPG6sCDDo7Hit84gDQq/+MfPtMIgwNq34bimIMGkuLsguvy4o7DtIL2xsNQgw6PAuyC89iDA 1r3AtM+02S4NCiAgCQ0KIAm89sfowaS6uLW1IMOjwLsgvPYgwNazqr/kPwkgDQogCUlORk93d3e/ obyttMIgwNqw3cH1urAsILD6uPG6sCDBpLiutMIgubC30CCx4sPiua7BprHuwfYgw+LBpr+stbW6 sLfOIA0KwN8gwaS4rrXHvu4gwNa+7iCwxsGkx9Igx8q/5LChIL74vcC0z7TZLg0KICAJDQogCcH2 sd0gyLi/+LXut8/Hz73DuOkgwNq34bChILmrwabH0SCw+MKlISENCgkNCiAJSU5GT3d3d7+hvK20 wiC758DMxq4gsLO8s7His+TAuLfOIMi4v/i17rfPx8+9w7TCILjwtecgutC16bKyIMf2wOcgDQq1 7rfPtce+7iDA1rTCIMDat+G4piC48LXOILTZv+4gud7Au7z2IMDWsNQgx9+9wLTPtNkuDQoNCruh uK4gyLi/+CC17rfPx8+9w7DtIMDat+G4piC53r7GILChvcOx4iC52bb4tM+02S4NCiAgCQ0KuN7A zyC537zbwM8gOiAyMDAyLTA2LTIxIA0KDQq76MGmDQo8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5pbmZvd3d3LmNvLmty L3NjcmlwdHMvOTA5MC85OTk5LmFzcD9mZDE9MiZmZDI9Y2hhdEBmcmVlYnNkLm8NCnJnPiANCg0K CQ0KCQ0KDQoNCrq7ILjewM/AuiDBpLq4xeu9xbrOILHHsO0gu+fH17+hIMDHsMUgwaa48b+hIFux pLDtXbbzIMelvcO1yCCxpLDtILjewM/A1LTPtNkuDQogDQo8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5pbmZvd3d3LmNv LmtyL3NjcmlwdHMvOTA5MC85OTk5LmFzcD9mZDE9MSZmZDI9Y2hhdEBmcmVlYnNkLm8NCnJnPiAg ufbGsMC7IMWsuK/Hz73DuOkgvPa9xbDFus7Ds7iusKEgwMy3577uIMH9tM+02S4NCg0KIAkNCiAJ DQoJDQoJDQo= ------=_NextPart_000_01A0_01C218F5.9DE1F2C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =C0=CE=C5=CD=B3=DD =C7=D0=BD=C0 =B5=B5=BF=EC=B9=CC = [www.infowww.co.kr] =20
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------=_NextPart_000_01A0_01C218F5.9DE1F2C0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 21 3:12:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.seattleFenix.net (sense-sea-MegaSub-1-501.oz.net [216.39.145.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E27137B407 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 03:12:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from roo@localhost) by mail.seattleFenix.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g5LAEiZ00493 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 03:14:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roo) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 03:14:43 -0700 From: Benjamin Krueger To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Low impact, high value training? (wish me luck!!) Message-ID: <20020621031443.A447@mail.seattleFenix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-PGP-Key: http://www.macguire.net/benjamin/public_key.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. (kdk@daleco.biz) [020620 22:08]: > I'm interested in some computer training of some > sort. I'm trying to just make a bit more $$ than > I have been in other fields. However, the last time > I was in a classroom as a students when the > topic was computers was in the 1970s. (Anyone > remember Apple's IIe and PRODOS? I have > taught myself enough to run various OSes > with some success and am building up a > small service/consulting business in this > backwater part of the world. For the most part > my customers are satisfied, and my competitors > haven't yet comie to beat me up. My question is, > is any training out there worth much, short of > another degree? Here's something that worries me: > > I visited a customer this week for several hours. > She had a M$ system that runs like a (original) > 1939 Packard on diesel with half the valves stuck... > you get the idea ... :-) Obviously she's no good at > tweaking a system. > > She has a professional photography business, but > claims to have university/college training in computers, > including programming in C++. She said she made > As & Bs (high marks, for those familiar with other > terminology...). > > She wants me to build her another system, so I > quoted several configurations ... As I was fighting > with her Windoze, she came in, pointed to the > field on the quote form that said "Processor type > and speed" and asked, "What is this talking about?" > > If I can learn more in a few years of practical > experience and late night www-surfing than she > can in college courses, what's the point of training? > I'm not knocking anyone with a CS degree of any > type (she obviously doesn't have one....) I just > don't think that attending a course or two here > in SW Missouri is going to help a lot. Any > thoughts? > > TIA, Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. I am of the opinion that you get out of education what you put in to it. Garbage In, Garbage Out. If you want to learn a great deal of things at university, you will. If you are only attending to run through the mill and obtain a degree, you're probably wasting everyone's time. Unfortunately, I think most folks fall into the latter category. So, if you think that you are going to put the effort in to your coursework, you will likely find that you get a great deal of benefit from it. Don't think of a university course as something passive that shapes you. Rather, think of it as a tool that you can use to shape yourself as much as you're willing. Regards, -- Benjamin Krueger "Life is far too important a thing ever to talk seriously about." - Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Send mail w/ subject 'send public key' or query for (0x251A4B18) Fingerprint = A642 F299 C1C1 C828 F186 A851 CFF0 7711 251A 4B18 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 21 5:41:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [206.196.95.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E1337B401 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 05:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5LCfb103953; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:41:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id g5LCfbR29124; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:41:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from centtech.com (proton [10.177.173.77]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5LCfZR29117; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:41:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3D131EFE.A5682C37@centtech.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:41:34 -0500 From: Eric Anderson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Low impact, high value training? (wish me luck!!) References: <00b901c218e1$6229a5c0$ceec910c@daleco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My personal opinion on this is that experience is worth just as much as a degree, sometimes moreso in this field. As far as training goes, there are very few courses which actually teach you something worthwhile - most just want to you write the check and hand you the certificate so you can slap it on your resume. Personally, I am self taught for nearly everything I do. You will most likely learn the most from the things you enjoy doing, and most likely it will be easy to learn the things you are interested in. Pick a topic you want to learn about, get some books, find some people who are in to that, and start reading and asking questions. Just my $.02 Eric "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." wrote: > > I'm interested in some computer training of some > sort. I'm trying to just make a bit more $$ than > I have been in other fields. However, the last time > I was in a classroom as a students when the > topic was computers was in the 1970s. (Anyone > remember Apple's IIe and PRODOS? I have > taught myself enough to run various OSes > with some success and am building up a > small service/consulting business in this > backwater part of the world. For the most part > my customers are satisfied, and my competitors > haven't yet comie to beat me up. My question is, > is any training out there worth much, short of > another degree? Here's something that worries me: > > I visited a customer this week for several hours. > She had a M$ system that runs like a (original) > 1939 Packard on diesel with half the valves stuck... > you get the idea ... :-) Obviously she's no good at > tweaking a system. > > She has a professional photography business, but > claims to have university/college training in computers, > including programming in C++. She said she made > As & Bs (high marks, for those familiar with other > terminology...). > > She wants me to build her another system, so I > quoted several configurations ... As I was fighting > with her Windoze, she came in, pointed to the > field on the quote form that said "Processor type > and speed" and asked, "What is this talking about?" > > If I can learn more in a few years of practical > experience and late night www-surfing than she > can in college courses, what's the point of training? > I'm not knocking anyone with a CS degree of any > type (she obviously doesn't have one....) I just > don't think that attending a course or two here > in SW Missouri is going to help a lot. Any > thoughts? > > TIA, Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology He who laughs last didn't get the joke. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 21 8:49:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.samuelstn.dhs.org (h24-64-81-248.cg.shawcable.net [24.64.81.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1C8BE37B409 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:49:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 60970 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2002 15:49:07 -0000 Received: from firewall (HELO SAMCHOW1.ca.nortel.com) (192.168.1.1) by homeserver with SMTP; 21 Jun 2002 15:49:07 -0000 Message-ID: <016b01c2193b$290a4920$2784412f@ca.nortel.com> From: "Samuel Chow" To: "Eric Anderson" , "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Cc: References: <00b901c218e1$6229a5c0$ceec910c@daleco> <3D131EFE.A5682C37@centtech.com> Subject: Re: Low impact, high value training? (wish me luck!!) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:48:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > From: "Eric Anderson" > > My personal opinion on this is that experience is worth just > as much as a degree, sometimes moreso in this field. As far as > training goes, there are very few courses which actually teach > you something worthwhile - most just want to you write the > check and hand you the certificate so you can slap it on your > resume. Unfortunately, employers do not look at it this way. Everytime I read the career section of the local newspapers, they all want some certifications such as MSCE for jobs like network administrators. As a FreeBSD user, I will never want to have these certifications, but it also means that I will never get those type of jobs. Bummer. --- Samuel Chow cyschow@shaw.ca This message is displayed using recycled electrons. Segmentation Fault (core dumped) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 21 8:53:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [206.196.95.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3045937B43E for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:53:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5LFrE108867; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:53:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id g5LFrEJ10962; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:53:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from centtech.com (proton [10.177.173.77]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5LFrBR10955; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:53:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3D134BE7.F88700B4@centtech.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:53:11 -0500 From: Eric Anderson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Samuel Chow Cc: "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Low impact, high value training? (wish me luck!!) References: <00b901c218e1$6229a5c0$ceec910c@daleco> <3D131EFE.A5682C37@centtech.com> <016b01c2193b$290a4920$2784412f@ca.nortel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Samuel Chow wrote: > Unfortunately, employers do not look at it this way. > Everytime I read the career section of the local > newspapers, they all want some certifications such as > MSCE for jobs like network administrators. As a FreeBSD > user, I will never want to have these certifications, > but it also means that I will never get those type of > jobs. Bummer. Well, I've found that while they put "MCSE or BS in blabl required", when it comes down to it, they'll hire a talented individual without the degree or papers. Including my current position, the past 3 places I have worked have asked for BS in CS, and/or certifications, all of which I do not have. I ignore the requests for those, and usually they do too (unless it's a bank or government organization - they are sometimes a little more picky). Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology He who laughs last didn't get the joke. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 21 15:42:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1312F37B408 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:41:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0462.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.193.207] helo=mindspring.com) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17LX5q-0006b8-00; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:41:27 -0700 Message-ID: <3D13AB70.D3B280D2@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:40:48 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Anderson Cc: Samuel Chow , "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Low impact, high value training? (wish me luck!!) References: <00b901c218e1$6229a5c0$ceec910c@daleco> <3D131EFE.A5682C37@centtech.com> <016b01c2193b$290a4920$2784412f@ca.nortel.com> <3D134BE7.F88700B4@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eric Anderson wrote: > Samuel Chow wrote: > > Unfortunately, employers do not look at it this way. > > Everytime I read the career section of the local > > newspapers, they all want some certifications such as > > MSCE for jobs like network administrators. As a FreeBSD > > user, I will never want to have these certifications, > > but it also means that I will never get those type of > > jobs. Bummer. At that point, those things are just "union cards". > Well, I've found that while they put "MCSE or BS in blabl required", when it > comes down to it, they'll hire a talented individual without the degree or > papers. Including my current position, the past 3 places I have worked have > asked for BS in CS, and/or certifications, all of which I do not have. I ignore > the requests for those, and usually they do too (unless it's a bank or > government organization - they are sometimes a little more picky). Expect this to change a bit, and people to become more picky. The normal reason for asking for things is so that you can sort resumes into two piles: the "ignore pile" and the "manageably small" pile. With more IT people out looking for work, expect the worting criteria to become more stringent, as people look for ways to keep the "manageably small" pile the same size. It's a shame that they don't pick a sorting criteria that means that you can actually do the job. On the other hand, it's likely that the HR people feel that it's a shame that people don't include such a criteria on their resumes in the first place -- I doubt that this sorting method beats out "A-M on Tuesday/Thursday, N-Z on Monday/Wednesday/Friday". I'll give you an anecdote. After my first day of kindergarten, I came home pissed off, claiming to my mother that I would not go back to school again. When she asked why, I told her it was because "they would not give me arithmatic". You see, I had gone to school with this impression that there would be three lines: one for reading, one for writing, and one for arithmatic, and that, by standing in these lines and eventually getting to the front, these things would be handed to you. I think that if you go into a certification program with the same attitude I had going into kindergarten, you will end up with the same results. On the other hand, I'm pretty cynical these days with regard to even college degrees, when it comes to their value in being able to accurately indicate ability. My best advice for the original poster (who wanted to actually learn something) is that college is the place to go, if you want an environment where you can learn (that's "can", as opposed to "will"). My best advice for job seekers is: route around the H.R. department sorting process if you can do it. Use friends and your reputation, rather than trying to get through the firewall by weight of certification, or what project you happen to have commit priviledges on, etc.. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 21 18: 7: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from m-net.arbornet.org (m-net.arbornet.org [209.142.209.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0086A37B413 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 18:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m-net.arbornet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m-net.arbornet.org (8.12.3/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g5M16f8j009684; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:06:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from polytarp@m-net.arbornet.org) Received: (from polytarp@localhost) by m-net.arbornet.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5M16e1b009683; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:06:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:06:40 -0400 (EDT) From: pgreen Message-Id: <200206220106.g5M16e1b009683@m-net.arbornet.org> To: anderson@centtech.com, tlambert2@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Low impact, high value training? (wish me luck!!) Cc: cyschow@shaw.ca, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, kdk@daleco.biz In-Reply-To: <3D13AB70.D3B280D2@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org RE ---------- My best advice for job seekers is: route around the H.R. department sorting process if you can do it. Use friends and your reputation, rather than trying to get through the firewall by weight of certification, or what project you happen to have commit priviledges on, etc.. ---------- I am on a realyl coool projetc to which im' commited, tot kot, named XTMQL1~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 21 20:37:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fep9.cogeco.net (smtp.cogeco.net [216.221.81.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BCA37B40E for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 20:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from winxp (d57-117-31.home.cgocable.net [24.57.117.31]) by fep9.cogeco.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B735E59C3 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 23:37:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Muhannad Asfour" To: Subject: Upgrading from Gnome 1.4.x to Gnome 2.0 Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 23:36:54 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c2199e$10c75020$6401a8c0@winxp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I was thinking of upgrading from Gnome 1.4.x to Gnome 2.0 and was wondering if anyone else has went through this upgrade process and if they had any tips/advice for a smooth upgrade. Also, do I remove all of the old Gnome 1.4.x components (ex. gnome-media-1.4, etc.) before upgrading and is it possible to have GTK+ 1.2.10 and GTK+ 2.x live together peacefully without any conflicts? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, Thanks To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 22 3: 8:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.seattleFenix.net (sense-sea-MegaSub-1-501.oz.net [216.39.145.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D687637B414 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2002 03:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from roo@localhost) by rain.macguire.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g5L7fmM08801; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:41:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roo) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:41:48 -0700 From: Benjamin Krueger To: "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Low impact, high value training? (wish me luck!!) Message-ID: <20020621004148.A8684@rain.macguire.net> References: <00b901c218e1$6229a5c0$ceec910c@daleco> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <00b901c218e1$6229a5c0$ceec910c@daleco>; from kdk@daleco.biz on Fri, Jun 21, 2002 at 12:06:20AM -0500 X-PGP-Key: http://www.macguire.net/benjamin/public_key.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. (kdk@daleco.biz) [020620 22:08]: > I'm interested in some computer training of some > sort. I'm trying to just make a bit more $$ than > I have been in other fields. However, the last time > I was in a classroom as a students when the > topic was computers was in the 1970s. (Anyone > remember Apple's IIe and PRODOS? I have > taught myself enough to run various OSes > with some success and am building up a > small service/consulting business in this > backwater part of the world. For the most part > my customers are satisfied, and my competitors > haven't yet comie to beat me up. My question is, > is any training out there worth much, short of > another degree? Here's something that worries me: > > I visited a customer this week for several hours. > She had a M$ system that runs like a (original) > 1939 Packard on diesel with half the valves stuck... > you get the idea ... :-) Obviously she's no good at > tweaking a system. > > She has a professional photography business, but > claims to have university/college training in computers, > including programming in C++. She said she made > As & Bs (high marks, for those familiar with other > terminology...). > > She wants me to build her another system, so I > quoted several configurations ... As I was fighting > with her Windoze, she came in, pointed to the > field on the quote form that said "Processor type > and speed" and asked, "What is this talking about?" > > If I can learn more in a few years of practical > experience and late night www-surfing than she > can in college courses, what's the point of training? > I'm not knocking anyone with a CS degree of any > type (she obviously doesn't have one....) I just > don't think that attending a course or two here > in SW Missouri is going to help a lot. Any > thoughts? > > TIA, Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. I am of the opinion that you get out of education what you put in to it. Garbage In, Garbage Out. If you want to learn a great deal of things at university, you will. If you are only attending to run through the mill and obtain a degree, you're probably wasting everyone's time. Unfortunately, I think most folks fall into the latter category. So, if you think that you are going to put the effort in to your coursework, you will likely find that you get a great deal of benefit from it. Don't think of a university course as something passive that shapes you. Rather, think of it as a tool that you can use to shape yourself as much as you're willing. Regards, -- Benjamin Krueger "Life is far too important a thing ever to talk seriously about." - Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Send mail w/ subject 'send public key' or query for (0x251A4B18) Fingerprint = A642 F299 C1C1 C828 F186 A851 CFF0 7711 251A 4B18 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message