From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 12:34:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC32E16A4C1 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail10.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.210]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C4743FF9 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:34:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 6343 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 19:34:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender )encrypted SMTP for ; 4 Sep 2003 19:34:33 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h84JYV6Y002662; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:34:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.4 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20030902215318.GA341@mig-29.net> From: John Baldwin To: Manuel Rabade - MiG X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux on TechTV September 2, 7pm EDT (Live) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:34:38 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 15:34:49 -0400 (EDT) X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:34:38 -0000 On 02-Sep-2003 Manuel Rabade - MiG wrote: > My nvidia GeForce4 440 Go can do about 1700 - 1800 fps in glgears :-P, > with the propietary drivers of course :) > > On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 12:38:58PM -0700, Matt Olander wrote: >> On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 03:17:39PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: >> > Radeon 8500 (non-LE) does better than that for glxgears. I think >> > it was in the 1200-1400 range IIRC. Radeon 9200 (non-pro) gets >> > about 1100 or so fps with glxgears. That's with DRI of course. >> >> whoa! that's awesome. we'll use that card for the next show then ;) I should correct my numbers btw. The 8500 gets around 1600 and the 9200 around 1200. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 8 12:35:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D464016A4BF for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:35:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10106.mail.yahoo.com (web10106.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5986343FF2 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:35:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twigles@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030908193506.62060.qmail@web10106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.5.49.41] by web10106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 12:35:06 PDT From: twig les To: RexFelis , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20030908092004.82909.qmail@web40407.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:35:06 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:35:06 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:35:06 -0000 Yeah I was just screwing around. The Power to Serve is nice and catchy. It would be nice if FBSD had more shirts and stuff like those incorrigable OpenBSD guys. The daemon rocks all over that fish as a mascot. /* Disclaimer I'm kidding. OpenBSD is a great OS and the Blowfish is fine. */ End Disclaimer --- RexFelis wrote: > The FreeBSD project isn't really looking for a > new slogan, are they? We're just playing, right? > lol > > > ===== > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > How to get paid for making money: > > Step 1. Get your own web store here. > Step 2. Sign up here to get paid for advertising it. > Step 3. Enjoy! > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ===== ----------------------------------------------------------- Emo is what happens when the glee club goes punk. ----------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 11:34:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3647716A4B3 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web40413.mail.yahoo.com (web40413.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.110]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CF7A544001 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:34:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from catlord17@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030928183456.58537.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.75.82.188] by web40413.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:34:56 PDT From: RexFelis To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: BSD after Linux X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:34:57 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:34:56 -0700 (PDT) X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:34:57 -0000 I came to BSD after spending a few years learning under Linux... the transition (evolution?) makes perfect sense, to me. Shannon __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 6 10:34:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36DF416A4B3 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:34:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thuis.piwebs.com (217-19-20-186.dsl.cambrium.nl [217.19.20.186]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 183CF43FD7 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:34:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avleeuwen@piwebs.com) Received: (qmail 84456 invoked by uid 85); 6 Oct 2003 17:35:06 -0000 Received: from avleeuwen@piwebs.com by thuis.piwebs.com by uid 82 with qmail-scanner-1.20rc1 (uvscan: v4.2.40/v4288. Clear:RC:1:. Processed in 0.070182 secs); 06 Oct 2003 17:35:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO 192.168.0.109) (192.168.0.109) by 0 with SMTP; 6 Oct 2003 17:35:05 -0000 From: Arjan van Leeuwen To: Jonathan , Advocacy Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:34:40 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <200310052209.26807.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> In-Reply-To: <200310052209.26807.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310061934.40181.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Subject: Re: Fwd: TextMaker: Should we support FreeBSD at all? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 17:34:44 -0000 OK, I'll fill this in :). I'm counting on you (Jonathan) to get this information to SoftMaker in some way (or should we mail this directly to SoftMaker?). (snip) > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Should we support FreeBSD at all? Speak up now! > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > We have not made a final decision whether to support FreeBSD > at all and whether to port more applications like PlanMaker > to FreeBSD. > > Speak up now! If you are a FreeBSD user and want to see our > software for FreeBSD, help us make a business case for it > by answering the following questions: > > 1. Should we support FreeBSD at all? Yes. I think the user base is big enough to consider supporting FreeBSD, as other commercial companies such as Opera and nVidia have shown lately. > > 2. Does TextMaker for FreeBSD work without flaws on your > FreeBSD system? (if not, please file bug reports to > beta@softmaker.de) I have no idea. > > 3. Which printed magazines do you read that cover FreeBSD? Some Linux magazines sometimes offer an article on FreeBSD. Mostly, I have to read things on the web. > > 4. Which BSD-specific web sites do you visit? www.daemonnews.org, www.bsdforums.org, www.freshports.org. > > 5. How can we reach FreeBSD users? How can we ensure that > more FreeBSD users learn about our software? Advertise at freshports.org, a lot of people in the FreeBSD community visit this site. > > 6. On which Unix-like operating systems would you like to > see TextMaker, PlanMaker and our future office suite software? For me personally, FreeBSD would be enough :). Arjan From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 8 14:35:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 908BC16A4B3 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB52D43F3F for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:35:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.83]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:37:32 -0500 Message-ID: <3F8482E8.8080303@daleco.biz> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 16:34:32 -0500 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030920 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Kotulla References: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> In-Reply-To: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2003 21:37:32.0718 (UTC) FILETIME=[61AB44E0:01C38DE4] cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD trial now available X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:35:03 -0000 Martin Kotulla wrote: > Hello, > > we have just updated our web pages to reflect the fact that we now > have TextMaker for FreeBSD as well. I guess you could consider that as > a commitment to the FreeBSD operating system and its users. Considering that I won't be seeing a statement like this from Mr. Gates anytime in the next century or so, I'll accept that ;-) I personally am encouraged to see native FBSD versions of such fine products (like yours claims to be) such as Mozilla and Opera, as well. I'm seeing similar things in other Open Source forums; either there is gathering optimism, or else we're a bunch of die-hard wannabees who still dream of a world where people use software that doesn't resemble Fisher-Price's catalog design. > To find out more about TextMaker, go to > http://www.softmaker.de/tml_en.htm Done. Good looking site. > > Also, we have a trial version of TextMaker for FreeBSD up. Go ahead, > download it and tell me what you think (sucks - is great - doesn't > work on this FreeBSD version - works fine here) and file bug reports. > I am very interested in your feedback. OK. Download server responsive - good. Simple instructions. Good. Quoted below: ************************************ *Click here to download the software* To install TextMaker, first switch to the directory below which you want to install TextMaker, for example: • * cd ~* to install below your home directory • * cd /opt* to install below /opt • * cd /usr/local* to install below /usr/local Then, unpack TextMaker as follows: * tar xzvf tmfreebsdtrial.tgz* Finally, start TextMaker by typing: * cd textmakertrial* * ./tm* ******************************************* Now, the hard part: [/usr/local/textmakertrial] [16:23] #./tm /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libXThrStub.so.6" not found > Martin Kotulla > SoftMaker Software GmbH So, the jury can be out, I guess. I hack around a bit, and maybe try again tomorrow if I don't get it running today. Unfortunately, I'm due out for dinner later. Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 19 22:16:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6F9316A4BF for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10103.mail.yahoo.com (web10103.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.53]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5CD0543FB1 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:16:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twigles@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031020051637.43976.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.5.49.41] by web10103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:16:37 PDT Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:16:37 -0700 (PDT) From: twig les To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20030908193506.62060.qmail@web10106.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan---wth? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:16:37 -0000 I sent this message about 3-4 weeks ago. Just showed up in my box. --- twig les wrote: > Yeah I was just screwing around. The Power to Serve is nice > and > catchy. It would be nice if FBSD had more shirts and stuff > like > those incorrigable OpenBSD guys. The daemon rocks all over > that > fish as a mascot. > > /* Disclaimer > I'm kidding. OpenBSD is a great OS and the Blowfish is fine. > */ End Disclaimer > > --- RexFelis wrote: > > The FreeBSD project isn't really looking for a > > new slogan, are they? We're just playing, right? > > lol > > > > > > ===== > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > How to get paid for making money: > > > > Step 1. Get your own web store here. > > Step 2. Sign up here to get paid for advertising it. > > Step 3. Enjoy! > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > > software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > ===== > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Emo is what happens when the glee club goes punk. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ===== ----------------------------------------------------------- Get a taste of Religion ... eat a priest! ----------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 21:32:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E30116A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lakemtao05.cox.net (lakemtao05.cox.net [68.1.17.116]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC5FA43F3F for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:32:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com) Received: from fortytwo ([68.109.49.234]) by lakemtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031023043204.DKAV16588.lakemtao05.cox.net@fortytwo> for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 00:32:04 -0400 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:30:51 -0500 From: Vulpes Velox To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20031022233051.35334074.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: TCO and etc arguement X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:32:10 -0000 Well recently got talking with a MSCE about the total cost of ownership of running something like FreeBSD. Any one have any comments on this or any thing that would be useful to bring up? My view on this is how could it not be cheaper since for the most part it just requires some one that knows how to properly set it up. It can be setup to automatically update it's self. No trouble some licsensing. No company hell bent on feature creep. Easy access to source code. Easy administation. Easy expansion. UNIX admins are no longer a problem to find. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 06:45:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B07D16A4B3 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from one.thequestion.net (CPE00e081022601-CM014460012993.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [65.49.58.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F8943F75 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:45:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@theQuestion.net) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by one.thequestion.net (8.11.6/8.11.0) with ESMTP id h9NDf2G16520; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:41:02 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:41:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Wood X-X-Sender: To: Vulpes Velox In-Reply-To: <20031022233051.35334074.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TCO and etc arguement X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:45:31 -0000 I've been having an argument like this with a friend for years, mainly about all open source vs Microsoft. Just the other day, he emailed me to say he was starting to see my point. Not because of any of the standard speeches I'd given him, but because of the control MS exerts over an organization using it's products. Here's his direct quote so you can see his point. It's a good one that I hadn't thought off. I've added it to my arsenal, hopefully others will too. The problem with Microsoft products is the method at which they are sold. Because Microsoft ends up bundling it's packages together, they end up wielding too much power over your business. In order for me to install an Exchange server, I need the new version of Windows 2003 Server, but I still won't get all the options unless I upgrade Outlook, which of course can only be bought in the Office suite. Every product of Microsoft you buy gives your company less freedom to buy a different product down the road. Making the cost to move off of Microsoft more expensive with each new purchase and each day it remains installed. Open Source I don't think ever will die. The popularity is growing despite little to know marketing. Their profile couldn't be any lower, yet it's still gaining popularity. -- Dave Wood On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Vulpes Velox wrote: > Well recently got talking with a MSCE about the total cost of ownership > of running something like FreeBSD. Any one have any comments on this or > any thing that would be useful to bring up? > > My view on this is how could it not be cheaper since for the most part > it just requires some one that knows how to properly set it up. It can > be setup toautomatically update it's self. No trouble some licsensing. > No company hell bent on feature creep. Easy access to source code. Easy > administation. Easy expansion. UNIX admins are no longer a problem to > find. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 11:26:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9115B16A4B3 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61EF443FA3 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:26:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:2426 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ACkAU-00046q-3G; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:26:42 -0700 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:22:59 -0700 Received: from dhcp-46-145.acuson.com ([157.226.46.145]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id VDNMZ6VW; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:22:08 -0700 From: Johnson David To: Vulpes Velox , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:25:35 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20031022233051.35334074.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> In-Reply-To: <20031022233051.35334074.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310231125.35697.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1ACkAU-00046q-3G*CPAsN/ruMH.* Subject: Re: TCO and etc arguement X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:26:51 -0000 On Wednesday 22 October 2003 09:30 pm, Vulpes Velox wrote: > Well recently got talking with a MSCE about the total cost of > ownership of running something like FreeBSD. Any one have any > comments on this or any thing that would be useful to bring up? TCO is a largely meaningless term, IMHO. When comparing apples to apples, TCO has some small relevance, but when comparing Windows to Linux or FreeBSD, it's useless. The Linux guys started it by stating the obvious that Linux is significantly cheaper than Windows. Microsoft and its lapdogs responded with the TCO argument. Both arguments are focused on price. When someone asserts that Windows has a lower TCO than Linux or FreeBSD, counter with "TPG". My recently coined acronym TPG means "total productivity gained". Besides the total cost of an OS, you need to also consider the total productivity of the systems. Networks that are stable and robust improve productivity. Systems that don't have to have critical patches applied twice a week are less productive than those that don't. Anytime a system or network is down, productivity is hit hard. Another factor to consider is heterogenous environments. All the TCO studies I've seen calculate the cost for all Windows or all Linux. This is unrealistic for most corporate environments. It might make sense to deploy Linux or FreeBSD on the servers, and Windows on the desktop. Just my thoughts, David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 24 05:49:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09C1F16A4B3; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 05:49:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2D4D43F85; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 05:49:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from akruijff@www.kruijff.org) Received: from kruij557.speed.planet.nl (ipd50a97ba.speed.planet.nl [213.10.151.186]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HN900BECIHO1T@smtp02.wxs.nl>; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:53:58 +0200 (MEST) Received: from Alex.lan (localhost.lan [127.0.0.1]) by kruij557.speed.planet.nl (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9OCm5UT032434; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:48:15 +0200 (CEST envelope-from akruijff@Alex.lan) Received: (from akruijff@localhost) by Alex.lan (8.12.8p2/8.12.8/Submit) id h9OClj5N032408; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:47:45 +0200 (CEST envelope-from akruijff) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:47:45 +0200 From: Alex de Kruijff In-reply-to: <20031024021720.31654.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> To: peter lageotakes Message-id: <20031024124745.GA30536@dds.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i References: <20031024021720.31654.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Learning to Walk: A Linux User Migrates to FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:49:04 -0000 On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 07:17:20PM -0700, peter lageotakes wrote: > This is the follow up (part 2) to Babe in the Woods: A > Linux User Migrates to FreeBSD. > > Interesting article. However I disagree with the views > about handbook being written at the admin. level (and > more). The article could be more positive. > > http://www.ofb.biz/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=269 I say this is prity positive considering his previous article about 5.0. I feel that he gives _his_ fair point of view on FreeBSD. Strainge that top didn' run, i didn't had this happening to me. P.S. I change the maillist from questions@ to advocacy@ -- Alex Articles based on solutions that I use: http://www.kruijff.org/alex/index.php?dir=docs/FreeBSD/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 04:43:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E884C16A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 04:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from igloo.linux.gr (igloo.linux.gr [62.1.205.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA51343F75 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 04:43:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from igloo.linux.gr (IDENT:106@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h9PBjAPB014535; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:45:41 +0300 Received: (from keramida@localhost) by igloo.linux.gr (8.12.10/8.12.10/Debian-2) id h9P5nPYX003709; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:49:25 +0300 X-Authentication-Warning: igloo.linux.gr: keramida set sender to keramida@ceid.upatras.gr using -f Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:49:25 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Alex de Kruijff Message-ID: <20031025054925.GA3501@igloo.linux.gr> References: <20031024021720.31654.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> <20031024124745.GA30536@dds.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031024124745.GA30536@dds.nl> cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Learning to Walk: A Linux User Migrates to FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:43:36 -0000 On 2003-10-24 14:47, Alex de Kruijff wrote: >On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 07:17:20PM -0700, peter lageotakes wrote: >> This is the follow up (part 2) to Babe in the Woods: A >> Linux User Migrates to FreeBSD. >> >> Interesting article. However I disagree with the views >> about handbook being written at the admin. level (and >> more). The article could be more positive. >> >> http://www.ofb.biz/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=269 > > I say this is prity positive considering his previous article about > 5.0. I feel that he gives _his_ fair point of view on FreeBSD. > Strainge that top didn' run, i didn't had this happening to me. This is very likely a result of more serious problems with the /dev directory of the installation (like the missing /dev/null described in the article). I'll agree that it is a rather fair article, despite my reservations regarding the problems described. I've installed 4.8-REL a lot of times but didn't have any of the same problems. The fact that someone else did, which is probably unsurprising for newcomers to FreeBSD, doesn't mean that I'm super smart or that the authors of the article are silly either. The installation process depends on very scrutinous attention to details whose significance isn't yet very apparent when one is a FreeBSD newbie. This is what the documentation team is trying to help about by writing the Handbook and the rest of the docs. Let's hope that the quality of the existing documentation and the future efforts of the doc team make problematic cases like the one described in the article less and less frequent :-) - Giorgos From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 07:36:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91B4316A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.2.69.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C88B543F3F for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:36:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h9PEZpDK080164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:35:56 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: (from matthew@localhost)id h9PEZp3A080163 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:35:51 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:35:51 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031025143551.GA80130@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.60 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk Subject: One for the press section of the website, perhaps... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:36:06 -0000 --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just a passing mention of FreeBSD http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3211047.stm but a very popular site. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks Savill Way PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/mopHdtESqEQa7a0RAl9xAJ9uHpXul4qY1CPX37+1OD9I22AEVACfa6X4 bmgeFa8BzexJ2NTo6drYBKI= =2lfm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 11:22:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E7A316A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp11.wxs.nl (smtp11.wxs.nl [195.121.6.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F85F43FB1 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:22:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from akruijff@www.kruijff.org) Received: from kruij557.speed.planet.nl (ipd50a97ba.speed.planet.nl [213.10.151.186]) by smtp11.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNB009WRS5TE8@smtp11.wxs.nl> for advocacy@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:17:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: from Alex.lan (localhost.lan [127.0.0.1]) by kruij557.speed.planet.nl (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9PIHrEq005426; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:17:53 +0200 (CEST envelope-from akruijff@Alex.lan) Received: (from akruijff@localhost) by Alex.lan (8.12.8p2/8.12.8/Submit) id h9PIHqlb005425; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:17:52 +0200 (CEST envelope-from akruijff) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:17:52 +0200 From: Alex de Kruijff In-reply-to: <20031025054925.GA3501@igloo.linux.gr> To: Giorgos Keramidas Message-id: <20031025181752.GC4914@dds.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i References: <20031024021720.31654.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> <20031024124745.GA30536@dds.nl> <20031025054925.GA3501@igloo.linux.gr> cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Learning to Walk: A Linux User Migrates to FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:22:26 -0000 On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 08:49:25AM +0300, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On 2003-10-24 14:47, Alex de Kruijff wrote: > >On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 07:17:20PM -0700, peter lageotakes wrote: > >> This is the follow up (part 2) to Babe in the Woods: A > >> Linux User Migrates to FreeBSD. > >> > >> Interesting article. However I disagree with the views > >> about handbook being written at the admin. level (and > >> more). The article could be more positive. > >> > >> http://www.ofb.biz/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=269 > > > > I say this is prity positive considering his previous article about > > 5.0. I feel that he gives _his_ fair point of view on FreeBSD. > > Strainge that top didn' run, i didn't had this happening to me. > > This is very likely a result of more serious problems with the /dev > directory of the installation (like the missing /dev/null described in > the article). > > I'll agree that it is a rather fair article, despite my reservations > regarding the problems described. I've installed 4.8-REL a lot of times > but didn't have any of the same problems. The fact that someone else > did, which is probably unsurprising for newcomers to FreeBSD, doesn't > mean that I'm super smart or that the authors of the article are silly > either. The installation process depends on very scrutinous attention > to details whose significance isn't yet very apparent when one is a > FreeBSD newbie. This is what the documentation team is trying to help > about by writing the Handbook and the rest of the docs. > > Let's hope that the quality of the existing documentation and the future > efforts of the doc team make problematic cases like the one described in > the article less and less frequent :-) All 100% positive articles can be very nice for the ego. However this doesn't help in making the product better. You certenly don't want everybody to write about how great thay feel FreeBSD is because of pressure of the FreeBSD community. -- Alex Articles based on solutions that I use: http://www.kruijff.org/alex/index.php?dir=docs/FreeBSD/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 11:38:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9254016A4BF for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp11.wxs.nl (smtp11.wxs.nl [195.121.6.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91B9E43F75 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:38:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from akruijff@www.kruijff.org) Received: from kruij557.speed.planet.nl (ipd50a97ba.speed.planet.nl [213.10.151.186]) by smtp11.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNB0093XT3GHQ@smtp11.wxs.nl> for advocacy@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:38:05 +0200 (MEST) Received: from Alex.lan (localhost.lan [127.0.0.1]) by kruij557.speed.planet.nl (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9PIc4Eq005617; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:38:04 +0200 (CEST envelope-from akruijff@Alex.lan) Received: (from akruijff@localhost) by Alex.lan (8.12.8p2/8.12.8/Submit) id h9PIc3Zh005616; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:38:03 +0200 (CEST envelope-from akruijff) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:38:03 +0200 From: Alex de Kruijff In-reply-to: <20031025054925.GA3501@igloo.linux.gr> To: Giorgos Keramidas Message-id: <20031025183803.GD4914@dds.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i References: <20031024021720.31654.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> <20031024124745.GA30536@dds.nl> <20031025054925.GA3501@igloo.linux.gr> cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Learning to Walk: A Linux User Migrates to FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:38:05 -0000 On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 08:49:25AM +0300, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On 2003-10-24 14:47, Alex de Kruijff wrote: > >On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 07:17:20PM -0700, peter lageotakes wrote: > >> This is the follow up (part 2) to Babe in the Woods: A > >> Linux User Migrates to FreeBSD. > >> > >> Interesting article. However I disagree with the views > >> about handbook being written at the admin. level (and > >> more). The article could be more positive. > >> > >> http://www.ofb.biz/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=269 > > > > I say this is prity positive considering his previous article about > > 5.0. I feel that he gives _his_ fair point of view on FreeBSD. > > Strainge that top didn' run, i didn't had this happening to me. > > This is very likely a result of more serious problems with the /dev > directory of the installation (like the missing /dev/null described in > the article). > > I'll agree that it is a rather fair article, despite my reservations > regarding the problems described. I've installed 4.8-REL a lot of times > but didn't have any of the same problems. The fact that someone else > did, which is probably unsurprising for newcomers to FreeBSD, doesn't > mean that I'm super smart or that the authors of the article are silly > either. The installation process depends on very scrutinous attention > to details whose significance isn't yet very apparent when one is a > FreeBSD newbie. This is what the documentation team is trying to help > about by writing the Handbook and the rest of the docs. > > Let's hope that the quality of the existing documentation and the future > efforts of the doc team make problematic cases like the one described in > the article less and less frequent :-) Its not just the doc team who arre responcible for the succes of FreeBSD. Its the whole team, including amoung others, the doc-team, developers, core and the users on the lists (esecialy those on questions, newbie, stable and current). -- Alex Articles based on solutions that I use: http://www.kruijff.org/alex/index.php?dir=docs/FreeBSD/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 13:48:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D181C16A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:48:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web14609.mail.yahoo.com (web14609.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.241]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5838243F85 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:48:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from plageotakes@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031025204839.39160.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.164.8.37] by web14609.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:48:39 PDT Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:48:39 -0700 (PDT) From: peter lageotakes To: Alex de Kruijff , Giorgos Keramidas In-Reply-To: <20031025183803.GD4914@dds.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Learning to Walk: A Linux User Migrates to FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:48:41 -0000 --- Alex de Kruijff wrote: > On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 08:49:25AM +0300, Giorgos > Keramidas wrote: > > On 2003-10-24 14:47, Alex de Kruijff > wrote: > > >On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 07:17:20PM -0700, peter > lageotakes wrote: > > >> This is the follow up (part 2) to Babe in the > Woods: A > > >> Linux User Migrates to FreeBSD. > > >> > > >> Interesting article. However I disagree with > the views > > >> about handbook being written at the admin. > level (and > > >> more). The article could be more positive. > > >> > > >> > http://www.ofb.biz/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=269 > > > > > > I say this is prity positive considering his > previous article about > > > 5.0. I feel that he gives _his_ fair point of > view on FreeBSD. > > > Strainge that top didn' run, i didn't had this > happening to me. > > > > This is very likely a result of more serious > problems with the /dev > > directory of the installation (like the missing > /dev/null described in > > the article). > > > > I'll agree that it is a rather fair article, > despite my reservations > > regarding the problems described. I've installed > 4.8-REL a lot of times > > but didn't have any of the same problems. The > fact that someone else > > did, which is probably unsurprising for newcomers > to FreeBSD, doesn't > > mean that I'm super smart or that the authors of > the article are silly > > either. The installation process depends on very > scrutinous attention > > to details whose significance isn't yet very > apparent when one is a > > FreeBSD newbie. This is what the documentation > team is trying to help > > about by writing the Handbook and the rest of the > docs. > > > > Let's hope that the quality of the existing > documentation and the future > > efforts of the doc team make problematic cases > like the one described in > > the article less and less frequent :-) > > Its not just the doc team who arre responcible for > the succes of > FreeBSD. Its the whole team, including amoung > others, the doc-team, > developers, core and the users on the lists > (esecialy those on > questions, newbie, stable and current). > > -- > Alex > > Articles based on solutions that I use: > http://www.kruijff.org/alex/index.php?dir=docs/FreeBSD/ The install process in the handbook is very detailed. I dont believe that is an issue (imho). One aspect I think might need a small amount of clairification is release, stable and new technology relase (etc). That seems to be a small stumbling block for new users to FreeBSD. Pete __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/