From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 14 05:19:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E927B16A4BF for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 05:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0DC043F93 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 05:19:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from akruijff@kruij557.speed.planet.nl) Received: from kruij557.speed.planet.nl (ipd50a97ba.speed.planet.nl [213.10.151.186]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HL700J70E0NXS@smtp04.wxs.nl> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:14:47 +0200 (MEST) Received: from Intranet.lan (akruijff@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h8ECCWbC086636;akruijff@Intranet.lan) Received: (from akruijff@localhost) by Intranet.lan (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id h8ECCV2q086635; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:12:31 +0200 (CEST envelope-from akruijff) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:12:31 +0200 From: Alex de Kruijff In-reply-to: <20030912205422.GA74285@grimoire.chen.org.nz> To: Jonathan Chen Message-id: <20030914121231.GH23222@dds.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i References: <3F50C956.70603@carebears.mine.nu> <20030830151544.G21642@znfgre.qbhto.arg> <3F5193E2.8060805@carebears.mine.nu> <20030831065010.GA23179@titan.klemm.apsfilter.org> <20030909221106.GA31532@dds.nl> <20030910104807.GB47986@titan.klemm.apsfilter.org> <20030910162210.GC31532@dds.nl> <20030912205422.GA74285@grimoire.chen.org.nz> cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: strip FreeBSD a bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:19:08 -0000 On Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 08:54:22AM +1200, Jonathan Chen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 06:22:10PM +0200, Alex de Kruijff wrote: > > [... heaps of stuff ...] > > No matter how many this comes up, it all boils down to this: > > 1. More of us like it the way it than those who want to split it up. > 2. It ain't going to happen until 1. changes, and that's not > likely to happen. Its already going on, buts its a slowly going process. Perl has bin moved! -- Alex Articles based on solutions that I use: http://www.kruijff.org/alex/index.php?dir=docs/FreeBSD/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 10:27:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF32216A4B3 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:27:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.komquats.com (h24-108-145-252.gv.shawcable.net [24.108.145.252]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2B2543F3F for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:27:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@komquats.com) Received: from cwsys.cwsent.com (cwsys [10.1.1.1]) by mail.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A347A1AD for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cwsys (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cwsys.cwsent.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8HHRWZv018888 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:27:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca) Message-Id: <200309171727.h8HHRWZv018888@cwsys.cwsent.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.6.3 04/04/2003 with nmh-1.0.4 From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.komquats.com/ To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:27:32 -0700 Sender: Cy.Schubert@komquats.com Subject: UNIX Humour X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Cy Schubert List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:27:36 -0000 This is too good to to keep to myself. I just received this from a real person. His previous employer said he was a UNIX "expert". Cheers, -- Cy Schubert http://www.komquats.com/ BC Government . FreeBSD UNIX Cy.Schubert@osg.gov.bc.ca . cy@FreeBSD.org http://www.gov.bc.ca/ . http://www.FreeBSD.org/ ------- Forwarded Message From: [Name withheld to protect the ignorant] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:10 PM To: Schubert, Cy MSER:EX Cc: [Name withheld to protect the ignorant] Subject: Lastlog.c Cy, I rcp lastlog.c to my server mussel, then rcp this over to the CAS hosts. When running the script I'm receiving this err display. jaws # ./lastlog.c ./lastlog.c: /TT_DB: is a directory ./lastlog.c: old_versions/: is a directory ./lastlog.c: /TT_DB: is a directory ./lastlog.c: /TT_DB: is a directory ./lastlog.c: line 32: syntax error near unexpected token `()' ./lastlog.c: line 32: `char *ctime ();' [Signature block withheld to protect the ignorant.] ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 11:12:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7972F16A4B3 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:12:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6AF043F85 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:12:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: from localhost.localdomain (12-230-74-101.client.attbi.com[12.230.74.101]) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <20030917181245014001it89e>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:12:45 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8HIBi4d059635 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:11:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8HIBaWM059634; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <200309171727.h8HHRWZv018888@cwsys.cwsent.com> From: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:11:35 -0700 In-Reply-To: <200309171727.h8HHRWZv018888@cwsys.cwsent.com> (Cy Schubert's message of "Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:27:32 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: UNIX Humour X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:12:47 -0000 Cy Schubert writes: > jaws # ./lastlog.c > ./lastlog.c: /TT_DB: is a directory > ./lastlog.c: old_versions/: is a directory We can laugh at an ignorant "expert", but should we not also laugh at an OS and/or shell that is just as ignorant? Or cry? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 13:14:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6232416A4B3 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4640543FE5 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:14:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from maul.immure.com (adsl-66-136-206-1.dsl.austtx.swbell.net [66.136.206.1])h8HKE2EV217678 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:14:02 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by maul.immure.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h8HKE1d8069166 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:14:01 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from luke.immure.com (luke.immure.com [10.1.132.3]) by maul.immure.com (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8HKE0rs069135 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:14:00 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from luke.immure.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by luke.immure.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8HKE0fG078193 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:14:00 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@luke.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.immure.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8HKE070078192 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:14:00 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:14:00 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030917201400.GE72628@luke.immure.com> References: <200309171727.h8HHRWZv018888@cwsys.cwsent.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-scanner: scanned by Inflex 1.0.12.3 on maul.immure.com Subject: Re: UNIX Humour X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Bob Willcox List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:14:04 -0000 On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 11:11:35AM -0700, Gary W. Swearingen wrote: > Cy Schubert writes: > > > jaws # ./lastlog.c > > ./lastlog.c: /TT_DB: is a directory > > ./lastlog.c: old_versions/: is a directory > > We can laugh at an ignorant "expert", but should we not also laugh at > an OS and/or shell that is just as ignorant? Or cry? Well, I, for one, hardly think it would be worth it to attempt to make the shell smart enough to detect this kind of "ignorant expert" error. Of course, we could simply change the shell so that it would only attempt to execute files that have a well-defined set of file name extensions -- like some other popular OSes do. Indeed, we could even ignore the execute permission bit if we did that! :-) Bob -- Bob Willcox "You can't have everything. Where would you put it?" bob@immure.com -- Steven Wright Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 13:37:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E7BF16A4BF for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73FD043F75 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:37:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: from localhost.localdomain (12-230-74-101.client.attbi.com[12.230.74.101]) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <20030917203725014001lrgbe>; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:37:25 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8HKaJ4d062203; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:36:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8HKa8Bm062200; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:36:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) To: Bob Willcox References: <200309171727.h8HHRWZv018888@cwsys.cwsent.com> <20030917201400.GE72628@luke.immure.com> From: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:36:08 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20030917201400.GE72628@luke.immure.com> (Bob Willcox's message of "Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:14:00 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UNIX Humour X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:37:27 -0000 Bob Willcox writes: > Well, I, for one, hardly think it would be worth it to attempt to make > the shell smart enough to detect this kind of "ignorant expert" error. I was referring to software with "metadata" features, so a shell would need to be very little smarter and be able to get it right every time and be able to easily give poor dumb users some decent error messages. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 13:47:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8578516A4B3 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EBC143FE3 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:47:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from maul.immure.com (adsl-66-136-206-1.dsl.austtx.swbell.net [66.136.206.1])h8HKlkhH201460; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:47:46 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by maul.immure.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h8HKljlq007134; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:47:45 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from luke.immure.com (luke.immure.com [10.1.132.3]) by maul.immure.com (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8HKlirs007103; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:47:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from luke.immure.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by luke.immure.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8HKlifG078790; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:47:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@luke.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.immure.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8HKliU8078789; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:47:44 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:47:44 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: "Gary W. Swearingen" Message-ID: <20030917204744.GF72628@luke.immure.com> References: <200309171727.h8HHRWZv018888@cwsys.cwsent.com> <20030917201400.GE72628@luke.immure.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-scanner: scanned by Inflex 1.0.12.3 on maul.immure.com cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UNIX Humour X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Bob Willcox List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:47:48 -0000 On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 01:36:08PM -0700, Gary W. Swearingen wrote: > Bob Willcox writes: > > > Well, I, for one, hardly think it would be worth it to attempt to make > > the shell smart enough to detect this kind of "ignorant expert" error. > > I was referring to software with "metadata" features, so a shell would > need to be very little smarter and be able to get it right every time > and be able to easily give poor dumb users some decent error messages. Okay, but it still doesn't seem worth it to me. Most "poor dumb users" that I know stick with Windows anyway. :-( They don't do anything at a command line level. Bob -- Bob Willcox "You can't have everything. Where would you put it?" bob@immure.com -- Steven Wright Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 14:40:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D255716A4BF for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.224.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EFC043FF2 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:40:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-chat@m.gmane.org) Received: from root by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19zk20-0002ph-00 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:40:12 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sea.gmane.org ([80.91.224.252]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19zjyl-0002mY-00 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:36:51 +0200 Received: from news by sea.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19zjz2-00054n-00 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:37:08 +0200 From: Dan Nelson Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:37:05 -0500 Lines: 33 Message-ID: <3F68D401.4010304@allantgroup.com> References: <200309171727.h8HHRWZv018888@cwsys.cwsent.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030912 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en In-Reply-To: Sender: news Subject: Re: UNIX Humour X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:40:31 -0000 Gary W. Swearingen wrote: > Cy Schubert writes: > >>jaws # ./lastlog.c >>./lastlog.c: /TT_DB: is a directory >>./lastlog.c: old_versions/: is a directory > > We can laugh at an ignorant "expert", but should we not also laugh at > an OS and/or shell that is just as ignorant? Or cry? What? You mean everybody doesn't put this at the top of their programs? #if 0 /* Magic self-executing C source code. Run "sh hello.c" set -ex gcc -Wall -O $0 -o ${0%%.c} exit 0 */ #endif #include int main(void) { printf ("Hi there\n!"); return 0; } -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 14:48:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45EDA16A4B3 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.bitblocks.com (bitblocks.com [209.204.185.216]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 997B043FE0 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:48:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Received: from bitblocks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gate.bitblocks.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8HLmAC2043520; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:48:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Message-Id: <200309172148.h8HLmAC2043520@gate.bitblocks.com> To: Dan Nelson In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:37:05 CDT." <3F68D401.4010304@allantgroup.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:48:10 -0700 From: Bakul Shah cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UNIX Humour X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:48:14 -0000 Don't you mean: cat > hello.c < int main(void) { printf ("Hi there!\n"); return 0; } EOF chmod +x hello.c hello.c Hi There! From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 14:54:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5396316A4B3 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87A7143FCB for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:54:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h8HLsTlT079208; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:54:29 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:54:29 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Bakul Shah Message-ID: <20030917215429.GB51544@dan.emsphone.com> References: <3F68D401.4010304@allantgroup.com> <200309172148.h8HLmAC2043520@gate.bitblocks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200309172148.h8HLmAC2043520@gate.bitblocks.com> X-OS: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-message-flag: Outlook Error User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UNIX Humour X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:54:32 -0000 In the last episode (Sep 17), Bakul Shah said: > Don't you mean: > > #if 0 /* Magic self-executing C source code. Run "hello.c" > gcc -Wall -O $0 -o ${0%%.c} > ${0%%.c} > rm ${0%%.c} > exit 0 > > */ > #endif The original comment was supposed to read "self-compiling", but I like your modification too :) Don't forget the set -x, or a compile error will result in errors running and removing ${0%%.c}. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 15:08:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1ED516A4B3 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:08:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.bitblocks.com (bitblocks.com [209.204.185.216]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031F143FF2 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:08:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Received: from bitblocks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gate.bitblocks.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8HM8sC2043632; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:08:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Message-Id: <200309172208.h8HM8sC2043632@gate.bitblocks.com> To: Dan Nelson In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:54:29 CDT." <20030917215429.GB51544@dan.emsphone.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:08:53 -0700 From: Bakul Shah cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UNIX Humour X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:08:56 -0000 > The original comment was supposed to read "self-compiling", but I like > your modification too :) Don't forget the set -x, or a compile error > will result in errors running and removing ${0%%.c}. :-) Actually this is a useful thing to do. For files containing a library of functions I tend to add main() to test out these functions like so: #ifdef TESTING int main(int argc, char**argv) { ... } #endif Now I can write a self-testing .c file! From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 19:28:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC1CF16A4B3 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net (imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.59.72]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD8143FBF for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:28:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from b_cassidy@bellsouth.net) Received: from bellsouth.net ([68.214.84.88]) by imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.netSMTP <20030918022856.HVVK1810.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:28:56 -0400 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:31:30 -0500 From: Bryan Cassidy To: chat@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20030917213130.3a1194d1.b_cassidy@bellsouth.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.4 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha1"; boundary="=.P3iQhUuzQanfh'" Subject: Stop Slacking You Lazy Bum! X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 02:28:57 -0000 --=.P3iQhUuzQanfh' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was just wondering. I know it's a OpenBSD wallpaper but I just love it. Does anyone happen to have a link to where I can get this? I can't remember for shit. --=.P3iQhUuzQanfh' Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/aRkGKjx9X0nK5vwRAn5tAJ9jh6KWLBy4SyPN9YapD7sJAzSB6ACfTKcZ CHsvvhf4gf/doiuUuvUyDaQ= =jQHj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.P3iQhUuzQanfh'-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 04:08:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56B1D16A4BF for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web40611.mail.yahoo.com (web40611.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.148]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B459343FE0 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:08:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pjn0211@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030918110851.55151.qmail@web40611.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.183.248.166] by web40611.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:08:51 BST Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:08:51 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Supote=20Leelasupphakorn?= To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-Chat@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: freebsd-database@freebsd.org Subject: How DBA solved overload problem ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:08:53 -0000 To all, As a newly DBA, I really don't know how I deal with this problem. My problem is not so long ago, my database server seem to overloaded. It take me a time to find the cause of problem. I realize that some program don't queried wiht inappropriated SQL statement. I mean they're not efficient one. AS DBA how do you solved this problem? Thanks in advance, ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 05:46:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D23B816A4B3; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta8.adelphia.net (mta8.adelphia.net [68.168.78.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A64343FBF; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:46:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta8.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030918124620.BUCO14799.mta8.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:46:20 -0400 Message-ID: <3F69A91A.60100@potentialtech.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:46:18 -0400 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Supote Leelasupphakorn References: <20030918110851.55151.qmail@web40611.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030918110851.55151.qmail@web40611.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-database@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: FreeBSD-Chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: How DBA solved overload problem ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:46:21 -0000 Supote Leelasupphakorn wrote: > To all, > > As a newly DBA, I really don't know how I deal with > this problem. My problem is not so long ago, my database > server seem to overloaded. It take me a time to find > the cause of problem. I realize that some program don't > queried wiht inappropriated SQL statement. I mean they're > not efficient one. > > AS DBA how do you solved this problem? You're hitting up against, what I feel is one of the most common and most difficult to solve problems out there. The best solution is to fix the SQL statements. Unfortunately, it's quite possible that you won't be able to fix the application that's causing the problem, becuase it's closed-source and written by someone else. At that point, you're up against the frustrating chore of convincing the application designer to fix their lousy code, which is often impossible. In the end, it seems that most people end up buying faster, more expensive hardware to make up for lousy application design. It's a damn shame, but that's what seems to happen a lot. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 10:06:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E0DA16A4B3; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from perrin.nxad.com (internal.nxad.com [69.1.70.251]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FEF643F3F; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:06:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sean@nxad.com) Received: by perrin.nxad.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id BC5F22105E; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:06:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:06:40 -0700 From: Sean Chittenden To: Supote Leelasupphakorn Message-ID: <20030918170640.GC34604@perrin.nxad.com> References: <20030918110851.55151.qmail@web40611.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030918110851.55151.qmail@web40611.mail.yahoo.com> X-PGP-Key: finger seanc@FreeBSD.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3849 3760 1AFE 7B17 11A0 83A6 DD99 E31F BC84 B341 X-Web-Homepage: http://sean.chittenden.org/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-database@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: FreeBSD-Chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: How DBA solved overload problem ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:06:42 -0000 > As a newly DBA, I really don't know how I deal with this > problem. My problem is not so long ago, my database server seem to > overloaded. It take me a time to find the cause of problem. I > realize that some program don't queried wiht inappropriated SQL > statement. I mean they're not efficient one. > > AS DBA how do you solved this problem? In PostgreSQL, I flip on the following settings and then periodically scan PostgreSQL's the log file (/var/log/pgsql): log_duration = true log_pid = true log_statement = true log_timestamp = true It's tedious, but with grep on your side, it's not an impossible task or even a super hard one... just a bit tedious if you don't keep up with your developers. I've found doing this on the devel machines produces better bang for the buck than on the production DB's (though I still do it there occasionally). Once a query is found, I typically launch a big 'ole fashion egrep -r with a reasonably unique part of the query and am normally pretty successful in finding the culprit. Sometimes you'll have to use sockstat to find what machine and what PID you're dealing with, but that's something I have to do rarely. -sc PS Don't spam so many lists in the future, just -databases or just -questions would've been sufficient (the more topical the list the better). -- Sean Chittenden From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 11:30:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33E0916A4B3 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:30:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from perilith.com (perilith.com [207.198.250.232]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54CBB43FB1 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:30:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aard@perilith.com) Received: by perilith.com (Postfix, from userid 1050) id B1897121082AB; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:30:32 -0400 From: a clever sheep To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: special-delivery User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: this verisign wildcard silliness X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:30:34 -0000 the thing that really slays me about this is that there's a privacy policy and a terms of use linked on the 'sitefinder' pages: 14. AGREEMENT TO BE BOUND. By using the service(s) provided by VeriSign under these Terms of Use, you acknowledge that you have read and agree to be bound by all terms and conditions here in and documents incorporated by reference. is this enforceable? is typoing a domain name now equivalent to signing a contract? if not, why is this even on there? they've gone to great lengths to not provide any method of contacting them electronically, they only provide an address for VeriSign legal on the privacy policy. i wanted to let them know that i don't agree to their terms of service and i'd like them to stop appearing in my web browser. ;) -- aard@perilith.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 11:32:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373B016A4BF for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shaft.techsupport.co.uk (shaft.techsupport.co.uk [212.250.77.214]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BD5043FBF for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:32:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from pc3-cdif2-5-cust222.cdif.cable.ntl.com ([81.101.152.222] helo=shrike.submonkey.net ident=mailnull) by shaft.techsupport.co.uk with esmtp (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.22) id 1A03Zr-0000Xj-LT; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:32:27 +0100 Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.22) id 1A03Zo-0005op-Nh; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:32:24 +0100 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:32:24 +0100 From: Ceri Davies To: a clever sheep Message-ID: <20030918183224.GM389@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , a clever sheep , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="37cJpJlYZwAfNbm5" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: Ceri Davies cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: this verisign wildcard silliness X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:32:30 -0000 --37cJpJlYZwAfNbm5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 02:30:32PM -0400, a clever sheep wrote: > the thing that really slays me about this is that there's a privacy > policy and a terms of use linked on the 'sitefinder' pages: >=20 > 14. AGREEMENT TO BE BOUND. > By using the service(s) provided by VeriSign under these Terms of Use, > you acknowledge that you have read and agree to be bound by all terms > and conditions here in and documents incorporated by reference. >=20 > is this enforceable? is typoing a domain name now equivalent to signing > a contract? if not, why is this even on there? they've gone to great > lengths to not provide any method of contacting them electronically, > they only provide an address for VeriSign legal on the privacy policy. > i wanted to let them know that i don't agree to their terms of service > and i'd like them to stop appearing in my web browser. ;) Well, you could phone them and ask them to stop serving your IP block, but since they run gtld-servers.net that would cut you off from half of the Internet. Ceri --=20 User: DO YOU ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOR? Iniaes: Sure, I can accept all forms of payment. -- www.chatterboxchallenge.com --37cJpJlYZwAfNbm5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/afo4ocfcwTS3JF8RAuRXAKCcqOjjagqrArIVzPlAt76mlzeuhQCgw+Pl qCVUPqFJYAwmHPIRwmjbLMY= =4LCR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --37cJpJlYZwAfNbm5-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 11:42:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 722FF16A4B3 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from perilith.com (perilith.com [207.198.250.232]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F36A344067 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:42:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aard@perilith.com) Received: by perilith.com (Postfix, from userid 1050) id 0FB2F121082AB; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:42:28 -0400 From: a clever sheep To: Ceri Davies , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030918184228.GA1594@perilith.com> References: <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> <20030918183224.GM389@submonkey.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030918183224.GM389@submonkey.net> Precedence: special-delivery User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Re: this verisign wildcard silliness X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:42:32 -0000 On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 07:32:24PM +0100, Ceri Davies wrote: > > Well, you could phone them and ask them to stop serving your IP block, > but since they run gtld-servers.net that would cut you off from half of > the Internet. clearly that's not an option. i'm just curious how they'd respond to irate-end-user-with-lawyer calling and saying that they never agreed to these terms or this privacy policy and they want it to go away. it would be pretty technically challenging for verisign if they had to do that. -- aard@perilith.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 12:06:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68ED416A4B3 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227BE43F3F for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:06:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030918190654.KLJZ19371.mta11.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:06:54 -0400 Message-ID: <3F6A024C.5030307@potentialtech.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:06:52 -0400 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: a clever sheep References: <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> <20030918183224.GM389@submonkey.net> <20030918184228.GA1594@perilith.com> In-Reply-To: <20030918184228.GA1594@perilith.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: this verisign wildcard silliness X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:06:55 -0000 a clever sheep wrote: > On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 07:32:24PM +0100, Ceri Davies wrote: > >>Well, you could phone them and ask them to stop serving your IP block, >>but since they run gtld-servers.net that would cut you off from half of >>the Internet. > > clearly that's not an option. > > i'm just curious how they'd respond to irate-end-user-with-lawyer > calling and saying that they never agreed to these terms or this privacy > policy and they want it to go away. it would be pretty technically > challenging for verisign if they had to do that. It makes me wish I had money lying around to hire a lawyer just to piss off Verisign. I already have a MAJOR bone to pick with Verisign (have for several years) and this infuriates me even more. If I can find an avenue to complain, I will. Is there some organization that is over Verisign that I could file a complaint with? -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 12:22:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48C9016A4B3 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gdead.mooseriver.com (gdead.mooseriver.com [205.166.121.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E8B843F75 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:22:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@gdead.mooseriver.com) Received: from gdead.mooseriver.com (localhost.mooseriver.com [127.0.0.1]) h8IJMOaF069982; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:22:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@gdead.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by gdead.mooseriver.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id h8IJMOIg069981; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:22:24 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Bill Moran Message-ID: <20030918192224.GA69753@gdead.mooseriver.com> References: <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> <20030918183224.GM389@submonkey.net> <20030918184228.GA1594@perilith.com> <3F6A024C.5030307@potentialtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F6A024C.5030307@potentialtech.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: a clever sheep Subject: Re: this verisign wildcard silliness X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:22:25 -0000 On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 03:06:52PM -0400, Bill Moran wrote: > a clever sheep wrote: > >On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 07:32:24PM +0100, Ceri Davies wrote: > > > >>Well, you could phone them and ask them to stop serving your IP block, > >>but since they run gtld-servers.net that would cut you off from half of > >>the Internet. > > > >clearly that's not an option. > > > >i'm just curious how they'd respond to irate-end-user-with-lawyer > >calling and saying that they never agreed to these terms or this privacy > >policy and they want it to go away. it would be pretty technically > >challenging for verisign if they had to do that. > > It makes me wish I had money lying around to hire a lawyer just to > piss off Verisign. > > I already have a MAJOR bone to pick with Verisign (have for several > years) and this infuriates me even more. If I can find an avenue > to complain, I will. > > Is there some organization that is over Verisign that I could file > a complaint with? You could try complaining to ICANN but I don't think you and I combined have enough money to warrant notice. If you are a big, rich company ICANN will let you do anything you want. If not, all you will get is a "Bugger off". Verisign is my proof of this. Notice that through this whole thing we have not heard a peep out of ICANN. Vixie has noticed, all the screaming fingers on Slashdot have noticed. Basicly every geek I know or know of has been going on about this. ICANN is completely silent. So much for independent oversight. What was the name of the guy who, a few years ago, tried to start his own tld? He is starting to look less like a crackpot. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 5.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | Berkeley, Ca. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 12:32:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B5C216A4B3 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pd3mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D6C043FB1 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:32:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk) Received: from pd3mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr1so-ser.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.177])2003)) with ESMTP id <0HLF0095RCX1XJ@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml9so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml9so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.7]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HLF00I51CX1ZT@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk (h24-87-233-42.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.233.42]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HLF0031WCWZY9@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:31:46 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <20030918192224.GA69753@gdead.mooseriver.com> X-Sender: cperciva@popserver.sfu.ca To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Message-id: <5.0.2.1.1.20030918122737.02d8be68@popserver.sfu.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3F6A024C.5030307@potentialtech.com> <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> <20030918183224.GM389@submonkey.net> <20030918184228.GA1594@perilith.com> <3F6A024C.5030307@potentialtech.com> cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: this verisign wildcard silliness X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:32:37 -0000 At 12:22 18/09/2003 -0700, Josef Grosch wrote: >What was the name of the guy who, a few years ago, tried to start his own >tld? He is starting to look less like a crackpot. Ah, you see, that's the problem. There wasn't one person who tried this -- there were several dozen. And they were incompatible with each other. And they all wanted money. (And most of them weren't any better than verisign anyway.) Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 12:44:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71C2F16A4B3 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:44:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA9E043FCB for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:44:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05939; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:43:48 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030918134237.02c19650@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:43:36 -0600 To: Bill Moran , a clever sheep From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <3F6A024C.5030307@potentialtech.com> References: <20030918184228.GA1594@perilith.com> <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> <20030918183224.GM389@submonkey.net> <20030918184228.GA1594@perilith.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: this verisign wildcard silliness X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:44:13 -0000 At 01:06 PM 9/18/2003, Bill Moran wrote: >It makes me wish I had money lying around to hire a lawyer just to >piss off Verisign. This situation is ripe for a class action. Maybe one of the big law firms that loves to do these, such as Milberg Weiss, would take it on. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 12:53:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08EA716A4BF for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:53:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 287BF43FE0 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:53:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: from localhost.localdomain (12-230-74-101.client.attbi.com[12.230.74.101]) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2003091819530501300kv24ce>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:53:05 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8IJpu4d081865; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:51:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8IJppZV081864; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:51:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) To: a clever sheep References: <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> From: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:51:51 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> (a. clever sheep's message of "Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:30:32 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: this verisign wildcard silliness X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:53:08 -0000 a clever sheep writes: > 14. AGREEMENT TO BE BOUND. > By using the service(s) provided by VeriSign under these Terms of Use, > you acknowledge that you have read and agree to be bound by all terms > and conditions here in and documents incorporated by reference. > > is this enforceable? is typoing a domain name now equivalent to signing > a contract? A lot of companies seem to think so. While looking for work recently, I was suprised at the large percentage of sites (job searching, job shops, employment agencies, and employers) which have huge "legal" pages, many of which "require" the user to agree to pay them and their lawyers (i.e., "indemnify" them) under certain circumstances. Normally if something you do that violates the agreement causes them money (usually involving a third party), but often it's for anything you do, whether or not it violates the agreement. Sometimes these nasty terms only apply to the use of special features like forums or other web forms. They want you to assume risks, instead of them, which is I suppose is SOP for companies dealing with each other, but it seems unreasonable for individuals to indemnify corporations. With a few exceptions, I left the sites pronto or limited myself to browsing and e-mail. The worst "legal" page I've seen is so-called "Pay Pal", which has a huge page with a long list of links to more parts of the "aggreement". I wonder how much my lawyer would charge to interpret it all for me. It does make legal insurance look like a good idea, if I could have any confindence that they'd "be there", if Pay Pal came after me. In the mean-time, I won't be using Pay Pal. I think some legislation on this topic is in order, so that people can use websites without worry of legal troubles or having to agree to incomprehensible contracts, but since we foolishly populate our legislatures with 90% lawyers, I'm not hopeful of such legislation. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 12:54:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE33416A4B3 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (ns0.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.2.69.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D87B43FCB for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:54:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h8IJraJK037380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:54:13 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: (from matthew@localhost)h8IJrani037379; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:53:36 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:53:35 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman To: Bill Moran Message-ID: <20030918195335.GA36904@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Bill Moran , a clever sheep , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> <20030918183224.GM389@submonkey.net> <20030918184228.GA1594@perilith.com> <3F6A024C.5030307@potentialtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="/04w6evG8XlLl3ft" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F6A024C.5030307@potentialtech.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-11.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_10,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,PGP_SIGNATURE_2, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: a clever sheep Subject: Re: this verisign wildcard silliness X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:54:20 -0000 --/04w6evG8XlLl3ft Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 03:06:52PM -0400, Bill Moran wrote: > Is there some organization that is over Verisign that I could file > a complaint with? That would be ICANN (http://www.icann.org/) which is the body that took over from IANA that was and which has contracted Verisign to run the .com and .net domains and (some or all of?) the gTLD DNS servers. I've seen claims on slashdot and on the NANOG lists that Verisign's latest actions have put them in breach of their contract terms, and calls for ICANN to dump them and choose someone less avaricious instead. However, ICANN has just received an extension of their mandate from the US Department of Commerce for another 3 years and good luck (you'll need it) in getting any sort of action out of them. Personally, I think that ICANN should be subsumed by the ITU, which is a United Nations organisation and that seems to be much more effective at what it does and a lot less beholden to factional interests. There's some ... interesting ... traffic on the ICANN GNSO General Assembly mailing list at http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/ga/ (GNSO =3D Generic Names Supporting Organisation, which is the sub-committee that deals with issues to do with the DNS generic Top Level Domains. It's always a bad sign when an organisational chart fills up with so many impenetrable acronyms...) Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks Savill Way PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK --/04w6evG8XlLl3ft Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/ag0/dtESqEQa7a0RAlCLAJ4okC1ndC7ksMhjRuPgmyZuM5x+SACfV5xJ 4wX34nU7rzxI2Agc7QC8hHA= =qoxy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/04w6evG8XlLl3ft-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 13:13:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F4D116A4B3 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (cvg-65-26-145-190.cinci.rr.com [65.26.145.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F4843FD7 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:13:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc.ramirez@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.bluecirclesoft.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8IKDEGs071173 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:13:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mrami@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: from localhost (mrami@localhost)h8IKDEMQ071170 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:13:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: www.bluecirclesoft.com: mrami owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:13:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Ramirez To: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030918134237.02c19650@localhost> Message-ID: <20030918154842.N88414@www.bluecirclesoft.com> References: <20030918184228.GA1594@perilith.com> <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> <20030918184228.GA1594@perilith.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030918134237.02c19650@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: this verisign wildcard silliness X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:13:17 -0000 On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Brett Glass wrote: > At 01:06 PM 9/18/2003, Bill Moran wrote: > > >It makes me wish I had money lying around to hire a lawyer just to > >piss off Verisign. > > This situation is ripe for a class action. > > Maybe one of the big law firms that loves to do these, such as > Milberg Weiss, would take it on. > > --Brett Glass Before you do anything rash... We first have to remember to "follow the money." (Thank you, Deep Throat) Now, yes, VeriSign may have a lot to gain from this, but let's face it: Internet ads don't work. Now stay with me. Internet ads don't make people buy things, they make people annoyed. In this case, annoyed at what? At their typing skills, obviously. Now, very soon we'll have lots of annoyed internet users cursing their stubby little jello fingers. Who would stand to profit from this? Maybe, just maybe, Mavis. As in, Mavis Beacon. As in, that's right! Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing, a.k.a Broderbund Software! Who else, indeed? Notice that Broderbund has stayed mum on the issue of the wildcard record, _unlike every one else on the internet_. Also, note well their affiliation between Broderbund and the _notorious_ Bank Street College of Education at bnkst.edu -- the .edu tld seems to be miraculously free of the wildcard nonsense. And remember that the fruit of their collaboration, Bank Street Writer, had _no spell check_. Coincidence? You be the judge. Could Broderbund be silently be staging a comeback? Are they and VeriSign forming an ogliopo, I mean, olligiopo, I mean, oligipiolo -- crap -- corporate Death Star? I'm afraid that's all I can say on the subject for now. Remember people, follow the money! Marc. -- Marc Ramirez Blue Circle Software Corporation 513-688-1070 (main) 513-382-1270 (direct) http://www.bluecirclesoft.com http://www.mrami.com (personal) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 13:21:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8873316A4B3 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CD3343FDD for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:21:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030918202141.SFMO19371.mta11.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:21:41 -0400 Message-ID: <3F6A13D2.8040101@potentialtech.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:21:38 -0400 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marc Ramirez References: <20030918184228.GA1594@perilith.com> <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> <20030918184228.GA1594@perilith.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030918134237.02c19650@localhost> <20030918154842.N88414@www.bluecirclesoft.com> In-Reply-To: <20030918154842.N88414@www.bluecirclesoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: this verisign wildcard silliness X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:21:40 -0000 Marc Ramirez wrote: > On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Brett Glass wrote: > >>At 01:06 PM 9/18/2003, Bill Moran wrote: >> >>>It makes me wish I had money lying around to hire a lawyer just to >>>piss off Verisign. >> >>This situation is ripe for a class action. >> >>Maybe one of the big law firms that loves to do these, such as >>Milberg Weiss, would take it on. > > Before you do anything rash... > > We first have to remember to "follow the money." (Thank you, Deep Throat) > > Now, yes, VeriSign may have a lot to gain from this, but let's face it: > Internet ads don't work. Now stay with me. > > Internet ads don't make people buy things, they make people annoyed. > > In this case, annoyed at what? At their typing skills, obviously. > > Now, very soon we'll have lots of annoyed internet users cursing their > stubby little jello fingers. Who would stand to profit from this? > > Maybe, just maybe, Mavis. > > As in, Mavis Beacon. > > As in, that's right! Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing, a.k.a Broderbund > Software! Who else, indeed? > > Notice that Broderbund has stayed mum on the issue of the wildcard record, > _unlike every one else on the internet_. > > Also, note well their affiliation between Broderbund and the _notorious_ > Bank Street College of Education at bnkst.edu -- the .edu tld seems to be > miraculously free of the wildcard nonsense. And remember that the fruit > of their collaboration, Bank Street Writer, had _no spell check_. > Coincidence? You be the judge. > > Could Broderbund be silently be staging a comeback? Are they and VeriSign > forming an ogliopo, I mean, olligiopo, I mean, oligipiolo -- crap -- > corporate Death Star? I'm afraid that's all I can say on the subject for > now. Remember people, follow the money! MY GOD! This goes deeper than I ever could have imagined! I hate to be the bearer of bad news, Marc, but you're likely to end up at the bottom of the river wearing a pair of concrete loafers after exposing this! You may have been better off keeping your suspicions to yourself. Broderbund has friends in nasty places, good luck getting a credit card ever again! -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 13:32:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6893716A4BF for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gdead.mooseriver.com (gdead.mooseriver.com [205.166.121.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A45DE43FF3 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:32:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@gdead.mooseriver.com) Received: from gdead.mooseriver.com (localhost.mooseriver.com [127.0.0.1]) h8IKW8aF071529; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:32:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@gdead.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by gdead.mooseriver.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id h8IKW8xp071528; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:32:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:32:08 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Marc Ramirez Message-ID: <20030918203208.GA71351@gdead.mooseriver.com> References: <20030918184228.GA1594@perilith.com> <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> <20030918184228.GA1594@perilith.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030918134237.02c19650@localhost> <20030918154842.N88414@www.bluecirclesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030918154842.N88414@www.bluecirclesoft.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: this verisign wildcard silliness X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:32:12 -0000 On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 04:13:13PM -0400, Marc Ramirez wrote: > On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Brett Glass wrote: > > > At 01:06 PM 9/18/2003, Bill Moran wrote: > > > > >It makes me wish I had money lying around to hire a lawyer just to > > >piss off Verisign. > > > > This situation is ripe for a class action. > > > > Maybe one of the big law firms that loves to do these, such as > > Milberg Weiss, would take it on. > > > > --Brett Glass > > Before you do anything rash... > > We first have to remember to "follow the money." (Thank you, Deep Throat) > > Now, yes, VeriSign may have a lot to gain from this, but let's face it: > Internet ads don't work. Now stay with me. > > Internet ads don't make people buy things, they make people annoyed. > > In this case, annoyed at what? At their typing skills, obviously. > > Now, very soon we'll have lots of annoyed internet users cursing their > stubby little jello fingers. Who would stand to profit from this? > > Maybe, just maybe, Mavis. > > As in, Mavis Beacon. > > As in, that's right! Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing, a.k.a Broderbund > Software! Who else, indeed? > > Notice that Broderbund has stayed mum on the issue of the wildcard record, > _unlike every one else on the internet_. > > Also, note well their affiliation between Broderbund and the _notorious_ > Bank Street College of Education at bnkst.edu -- the .edu tld seems to be > miraculously free of the wildcard nonsense. And remember that the fruit > of their collaboration, Bank Street Writer, had _no spell check_. > Coincidence? You be the judge. > > Could Broderbund be silently be staging a comeback? Are they and VeriSign > forming an ogliopo, I mean, olligiopo, I mean, oligipiolo -- crap -- > corporate Death Star? I'm afraid that's all I can say on the subject for > now. Remember people, follow the money! > > Marc. Nothing I love more than a good conspiracy theory.... -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 5.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | Berkeley, Ca. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 14:31:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10BA416A4B3 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E164143F3F for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:31:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07384; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:27:06 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030918152508.02bd5d60@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:27:01 -0600 To: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen), a clever sheep From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: References: <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> <20030918183032.GB1058@perilith.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: this verisign wildcard silliness X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:31:34 -0000 At 01:51 PM 9/18/2003, Gary W. Swearingen wrote: >The worst "legal" page I've seen is so-called "Pay Pal", which has a >huge page with a long list of links to more parts of the "aggreement". >I wonder how much my lawyer would charge to interpret it all for me. "Pay Pal" == "Ya better pay, pal." Don't sign up with them. They will gradually start demanding full access to your personal information, credit cards, bank accounts.... They've been known to freeze thousands of dollars of innocent parties' assets and then refuse to answer or return telephone calls. See http://www.paypalwarning.com/ --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 23:21:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BD6616A4B3 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.broadpark.no (mail.broadpark.no [217.13.4.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E04F43FCB for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:21:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (37.80-203-228.nextgentel.com [80.203.228.37]) by mail.broadpark.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 570B878AED for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:21:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 2244099D15; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:21:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dwp.des.no (dwp.des.no [10.0.0.4]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id 7BF8399D13 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:21:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 55828B84A; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:21:38 +0200 (CEST) To: chat@freebsd.org From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:21:38 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=8.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Subject: Will Microsoft take on Verisign? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 06:21:44 -0000 One of Internet Explorers more annoying features is the MSN search page that shows up (instead of an error message) when you type in a URL referencing a non-existent host or domain. Now, of course, if you mistype a .com or .net domain, you get Verisign's Sitefinder instead of the MSN search page. This robs Microsoft of significant amounts of traffic. I suspect they have very interesting and lucrative uses for the statistics generated from search engine logs, so this is likely not a trivial matter for them. So how long do you expect it'll take before Microsoft starts throwing its weight around in the Sitefinder debate? DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 07:49:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27A8816A4C0 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 07:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp018.mail.yahoo.com (smtp018.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 66FAA43FD7 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 07:49:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from max@willystudios.com) Received: from host37-22.pool80182.interbusiness.it (HELO vekkio.willystudios.com) (willythemax@80.182.22.37 with login) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Sep 2003 14:48:49 -0000 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:48:21 +0200 From: Massimiliano Stucchi To: chat@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20030919164821.2b1d18d1.max@willystudios.com> Organization: WillyStudios.com, LTD X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.3claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Spelling X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:49:06 -0000 Hello guys. After spending my last week at BSDCon, I have a silly question for you all. It took me a while to make people correctly pronunce FreeBSD the way I thought it had to be, say (freebeastie) as I had read about. The fact is, I live in Italy, and we all have our own way to pronounce foreign words and terms. When I arrived at BSDCon I discovered that everybody said "Free_B_S_D". So, what's the correct way to say it ? ;) -- Stucchi Massimiliano | Gruppo Utenti FreeBSD Italia WillyStudios.com | http://www.gufi.org stucchi@willystudios.com | max@gufi.org "People who make no mistakes do not usually make anything" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 08:01:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97DE716A4BF for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:01:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE79A43F3F for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:01:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EFBA3F4F; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:01:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: Massimiliano Stucchi Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:01:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3F6AE1F6.10536.962679@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030919164821.2b1d18d1.max@willystudios.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Spelling X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:01:20 -0000 On 19 Sep 2003 at 16:48, Massimiliano Stucchi wrote: > > Hello guys. After spending my last week at BSDCon, I have a silly > question for you all. > It took me a while to make people correctly pronunce FreeBSD the way I > thought it had to be, say (freebeastie) as I had read about. Beastie is the daemon. And it just happens that Beastie sounds like B_S_D. > The fact > is, I live in Italy, and we all have our own way to pronounce foreign > words and terms. When I arrived at BSDCon I discovered that everybody > said "Free_B_S_D". > > So, what's the correct way to say it ? ;) Free B S D. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 08:02:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 360C316A4B3 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu (1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu [128.147.18.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5504543FF5 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:02:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from personrp@ccbh.com) Received: by 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:02:43 -0400 Message-ID: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B4A7F6D@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> From: "Person, Roderick" To: 'Massimiliano Stucchi' , chat@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:02:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: RE: Spelling X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:02:45 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Massimiliano Stucchi [mailto:max@willystudios.com] > > > > Hello guys. After spending my last week at BSDCon, I have a silly > question for you all. > It took me a while to make people correctly pronunce FreeBSD the way I > thought it had to be, say (freebeastie) as I had read about. The fact > is, I live in Italy, and we all have our own way to pronounce foreign > words and terms. When I arrived at BSDCon I discovered that everybody > said "Free_B_S_D". > > So, what's the correct way to say it ? ;) > Free B S D Roderick Person Programmer personrp@ccbh.com http://www.ccbh.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 08:07:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 772A216A4B3 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.broadpark.no (mail.broadpark.no [217.13.4.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95F2B43FCB for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:07:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (37.80-203-228.nextgentel.com [80.203.228.37]) by mail.broadpark.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AE09796BF for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:07:13 +0200 (MEST) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 0479099F21; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:07:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dwp.des.no (dwp.des.no [10.0.0.4]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id 0D5D099F02 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:07:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id D338DB84A; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:06:59 +0200 (CEST) To: chat@freebsd.org From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:06:59 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=8.0 tests=USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Subject: The net fights back X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:07:15 -0000 At least one major .no ISP have patched their name server to disregard Verisign's wildcard entry: des@dsa ~% dig @193.75.75.193 verisign-sucks-goats.com ; <<>> DiG 8.3 <<>> @193.75.75.193 verisign-sucks-goats.com ; (1 server found) ;; res options: init recurs defnam dnsrch ;; got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 39398 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; QUERY SECTION: ;; verisign-sucks-goats.com, type =3D A, class =3D IN ;; Total query time: 41 msec ;; FROM: dsa.des.no to SERVER: 193.75.75.193 ;; WHEN: Fri Sep 19 17:04:03 2003 ;; MSG SIZE sent: 42 rcvd: 42 des@dsa ~% !ho host 193.75.75.193 193.75.75.193.IN-ADDR.ARPA domain name pointer ns2.eunet.no DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 08:08:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D7BE16A4B3 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2DAE43FCB for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:08:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from viktorlazlo@telus.net) Received: from njamn8or ([207.6.240.165]) by priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net ESMTP <20030919150826.MCBN28131.priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net@njamn8or>; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:08:26 -0600 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:08:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Viktor Lazlo X-X-Sender: viktorlazlo@njamn8or.no-ip.org To: Massimiliano Stucchi In-Reply-To: <20030919164821.2b1d18d1.max@willystudios.com> Message-ID: <20030919080736.I711@njamn8or.no-ip.org> References: <20030919164821.2b1d18d1.max@willystudios.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spelling X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:08:28 -0000 On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, Massimiliano Stucchi wrote: > > Hello guys. After spending my last week at BSDCon, I have a silly > question for you all. > It took me a while to make people correctly pronunce FreeBSD the way I > thought it had to be, say (freebeastie) as I had read about. The fact > is, I live in Italy, and we all have our own way to pronounce foreign > words and terms. When I arrived at BSDCon I discovered that everybody > said "Free_B_S_D". > > So, what's the correct way to say it ? ;) Each of the letters in BSD is a distinct syllable: Bee-Ess-Dee. Cheers, Viktor From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 10:35:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AB1316A4B3 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:35:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C523044028 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:35:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: from localhost.localdomain (12-230-74-101.client.attbi.com[12.230.74.101]) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2003091917350901500gh386e>; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:35:09 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8JHXt4d000317; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:33:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8JHXhui000314; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:33:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) To: Massimiliano Stucchi References: <20030919164821.2b1d18d1.max@willystudios.com> From: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:33:43 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20030919164821.2b1d18d1.max@willystudios.com> (Massimiliano Stucchi's message of "Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:48:21 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spelling X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:35:11 -0000 Massimiliano Stucchi writes: ... > thought it had to be, say (freebeastie) as I had read about. The fact ... > So, what's the correct way to say it ? ;) Even if it was supposed to be "freebeastie", most Americans would unconsciously "round" the "t" so it would be more like "free beese dee" (accent on "beese"), but AFAIK, everyone says "FreeBSD" with four syllables: "free be ese dee" (accent on "dee", but not much), even when they say it real fast. I'm guessing that "BSD" led some BSD pioneer to think "beastie" which he connected with processes already called daemons, and he thought it would make for a good mascot. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 10:41:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ADD816A4C0 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.broadpark.no (mail.broadpark.no [217.13.4.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F380643FF3 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:41:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (37.80-203-228.nextgentel.com [80.203.228.37]) by mail.broadpark.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id A181378860; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:41:48 +0200 (MEST) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 50F4199FD5; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:41:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dwp.des.no (dwp.des.no [10.0.0.4]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id A4A3799FCE; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:41:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 5D8BDB84A; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:41:42 +0200 (CEST) To: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) References: <20030919164821.2b1d18d1.max@willystudios.com> From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:41:41 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Gary W. Swearingen's message of "Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:33:43 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=8.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: Massimiliano Stucchi cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spelling X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:41:52 -0000 underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) writes: > I'm guessing that "BSD" led some BSD pioneer to think "beastie" which > he connected with processes already called daemons, and he thought it > would make for a good mascot. The mascot came before the name. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 15:08:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC48216A4BF for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64C4B43FF7 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:08:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: from localhost.localdomain (12-230-74-101.client.attbi.com[12.230.74.101]) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2003091922074801500etmsme>; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:07:48 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8JM6K4d004133; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:06:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8JM6FmK004132; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:06:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) To: chat@freebsd.org References: <20030919164821.2b1d18d1.max@willystudios.com> From: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:06:14 -0700 In-Reply-To: ( =?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav's_message_of?= "Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:41:41 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: =?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= Subject: Re: Spelling X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:08:04 -0000 des@des.no (Dag-Erling Smørgrav) writes: > The mascot came before the name. Well, it's easy to believe that the mascot came before the naming of the mascot. :) But AFAIK, the acronym "BSD" came 5 to 6 years before the mascot so it's hard for me to believe that the mascot came before "beastie" was used in relation to BSD or before it was used as a name (for BSD). But it's easy to believe that that did not help prompt the creation of the mascot, though I suspect that only John Lasseter knows. (1) If someone knows when and how beastie got it's name, please tell us. AFAIK, it's not documented anywhere. (2) Back to the original topic, this http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/misc.html#DAEMON-NAME says that "beastie" is pronounced "BSD". By VERY few, I'm guessing. Footnotes -- (-) BSD was started by Bill Joy in 1976. (1) AFAIK, the mascot was first published with some "4.2 BSD" documentation in 1982 or 1983. Several sources say that the original image (from which similar images that we are familiar with) was created by John Lasseter who later assigned his copyrights to McKusick. (I have no idea why McKusick's copyright claim uses 1988.) Neither of McKusick's "history" page or his book chapter or any of several other history pages I found says when the "beastie" name appeared. (2) Neither of McKusick's "history" sub-site (dig past the advertising) or his book chapter or any other history I found gives any history of the name "beastie". http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/mainpage/copyright.html http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/index.html http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/kirkmck.html http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/daemon.html http://minnie.tuhs.org/BSD-info/BSD.html http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/bsdaemon/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 15:46:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1950D16A4B3 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carver.gumbysoft.com (carver.gumbysoft.com [66.220.23.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82D2243FE1 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:46:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@gumbysoft.com) Received: by carver.gumbysoft.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 717EB72DA3; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carver.gumbysoft.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F5F272DA2; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:46:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030919154548.E46275@carver.gumbysoft.com> References: <20030919164821.2b1d18d1.max@willystudios.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE cc: Massimiliano Stucchi cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spelling X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:46:59 -0000 On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, Dag-Erling [iso-8859-1] Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) writes: > > I'm guessing that "BSD" led some BSD pioneer to think "beastie" which > > he connected with processes already called daemons, and he thought it > > would make for a good mascot. > > The mascot came before the name. And if i recall the mascot was never named in the first place. There was a movement to call him Chuck but kirk put that down. 'beastie' is about as close as it gets. --=20 Doug White | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve dwhite@gumbysoft.com | www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 15:53:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6870216A4E3 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:53:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840B543FDD for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:53:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28067; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:53:31 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030919165147.0294fb00@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:53:27 -0600 To: des@des.no (Dag-Erling Smørgrav), chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: The net fights back X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:53:42 -0000 At 09:06 AM 9/19/2003, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: >At least one major .no ISP have patched their name server to disregard >Verisign's wildcard entry We firewalled their addresses immediately and are installing the latest BIND 9 on all our servers to block their mischief. I'd love to see a version of BIND with a hack to block top level wildcards go into the next releases on the -CURRENT and -STABLE branches. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 20:47:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B484016A4BF for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:47:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [66.111.41.70]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D027443FD7 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:47:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 3918A11E4; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33FB311B9; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:47:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030919165147.0294fb00@localhost> Message-ID: <20030919204626.R33621-100000@moo.sysabend.org> X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE cc: =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The net fights back X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:47:27 -0000 On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, Brett Glass wrote: > At 09:06 AM 9/19/2003, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > > >At least one major .no ISP have patched their name server to disregard > >Verisign's wildcard entry > > We firewalled their addresses immediately and are installing the > latest BIND 9 on all our servers to block their mischief. > > I'd love to see a version of BIND with a hack to block top level > wildcards go into the next releases on the -CURRENT and -STABLE > branches. This would break other TLDs that have validly been using wildcards since inception. There is no violation of RFC on Verisign's part, merely public trust. Jamie Bowden --=20 "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 02:19:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 006BA16A4B3 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:19:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.broadpark.no (mail.broadpark.no [217.13.4.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0261543FBF for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:19:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (37.80-203-228.nextgentel.com [80.203.228.37]) by mail.broadpark.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94C0979066; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:19:48 +0200 (MEST) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 2BC189A2D6; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:19:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dwp.des.no (dwp.des.no [10.0.0.4]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id 33D499A2D2; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:19:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id F1F39B84A; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:19:43 +0200 (CEST) To: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) References: <20030919164821.2b1d18d1.max@willystudios.com> From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:19:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Gary W. Swearingen's message of "Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:06:14 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=8.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spelling X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:19:51 -0000 underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) writes: > (1) AFAIK, the mascot was first published with some "4.2 BSD" > documentation in 1982 or 1983. Wrong. Here's Phil Foglio's original, from 1976: http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/jpg/foglio.jpg and the accompanying text http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/shirts/usenix.html DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 10:01:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F1B016A4BF for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C17143FD7 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:01:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11053; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:01:05 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030920105639.03435680@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:00:56 -0600 To: Jamie Bowden From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <20030919204626.R33621-100000@moo.sysabend.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030919165147.0294fb00@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cc: =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The net fights back X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:01:19 -0000 At 09:47 PM 9/19/2003, Jamie Bowden wrote: >This would break other TLDs that have validly been using wildcards since >inception. I guess you haven't seen ISC's implementation. It can be set to block (or not block) wildcards from any zone, right up to the TLD. > There is no violation of RFC on Verisign's part, merely public >trust. Actually, the IAB has already pointed out several ways in which Verisign is violating RFCs with its new "service." (I think they're using the word in the same sense in which one says that a bull "services" a cow.) See http://www.iab.org/Documents/icann-vgrs-response.html --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 11:50:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0AE316A4B3 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B34D643FE3 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:50:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: from localhost.localdomain (12-230-74-101.client.attbi.com[12.230.74.101]) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <200309201850290130052fdpe>; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 18:50:29 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8KIn74d021809; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:49:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8KIn15l021808; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:49:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) To: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) References: <20030919164821.2b1d18d1.max@willystudios.com> From: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:49:00 -0700 In-Reply-To: ( =?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav's_message_of?= "Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:19:43 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spelling X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 18:50:33 -0000 des@des.no (Dag-Erling Smørgrav) writes: > underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) writes: >> (1) AFAIK, the mascot was first published with some "4.2 BSD" >> documentation in 1982 or 1983. > > Wrong. Here's Phil Foglio's original, from 1976: I will quibble with that, but thanks for providing evidence for the essential point: the use of demon images in association with UNIX came before, or at least independent of, the acronym "BSD", so it originally had nothing to do with the word "beastie". (I will still wonder whether "BSD/Beastie" had something to do with the UNIX mascot becoming associated only (?) with BSD, but that's a different issue.) The quibble: If we are to believe http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/daemon.html, the earliest BSD daemon images were created by Lasseter and copyrighted by McKusick; AFAI(still)K, they were first published in 1982-3. Foglio's image (copyrighted by USENIX) shows several demons which would be UNIX (or USENIX) demon mascots. Note that the demons have cloven hoofs and sharp teeth. Foglio's design was used as late as 1991 in a generic (non-BSD-specific) UNIX/USENIX context. But I would rather not believe freebsd.org, and from your comment above, it seems that you don't believe it either. Nobody may speak officially for BSD and, practically, any reasonable daemon image would be considered a BSD daemon (or UNIX daemon, in a UNIX context). (Old European art is full of demons to copy or derive from.) And some will choose to use multiple demons (presumably not all named "Beastie"). From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 17:10:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E26CE16A4B3 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E0143FE5 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:10:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15837; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 18:10:27 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030920180822.032f28d0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 18:10:24 -0600 To: Jamie Bowden From: Brett Glass Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cc: des@des.no cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The net fights back X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 00:10:44 -0000 Oh, and here's more from the IAB on Verisign's attempt at "universal typosquatting" (just published today). They call it "disatrous for users." http://www.iab.org/documents/docs/2003-09-20-dns-wildcards.html --Brett