From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 8 16:58:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EC0F16A4F4 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 16:58:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECC9043D30 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 16:58:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.0]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 8 Dec 2003 19:01:43 -0600 Message-ID: <3FD51E20.3080908@daleco.biz> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 18:58:08 -0600 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031124 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Dec 2003 01:01:44.0015 (UTC) FILETIME=[033595F0:01C3BDF0] Subject: Get some of Bill's $$, LOL ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 00:58:46 -0000 Well, sitting here with better things to do, but instead I'm doing this. Can't imagine why, (twist to /bin/echo "Get a life!") ?? Forgive if this has been fodder for fun before, please. from /COPYRIGHT: * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software * must display the following acknowledgement: * This product includes software developed by the University of * California, Berkeley and its contributors. Now, I'm sure that this copyright notice is reproduced on Microsoft's website. And I'm sure that Microsoft connects to the Internet with the same TCP/IP protocol as everyone else. However, I've never heard this statement on a TV voiceover, or even seen it in a print ad, etc., etc. Is it there, just in *very small print*? Should *we* sue, or settle out-of-court? #include :D KDK From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 8 17:12:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1923816A4CE for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 17:12:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (ip30.gte215.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [209.20.215.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AADC943D2D for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 17:11:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (s1.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.201])hB91Busu009990 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 17:11:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 17:11:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-X-Sender: jcw@s1.stradamotorsports.com To: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3FD51E20.3080908@daleco.biz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Subject: Re: Get some of Bill's $$, LOL ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 01:12:02 -0000 I think that the UCB Regents recently changed the terms of the license to delete the advertising clause. IIRC, the Stallmanites decried the single sentence requirement of the 200 word license as too draconian for them. Everybody else would have laughed at your message but you had "$$" in your subject header so you probably got spaminated. I thought, "Holy Crap, Make Money Fast is still doing the rounds?" :/ Jason From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 8 17:22:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E138616A4CE for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 17:22:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from tx1.oucs.ox.ac.uk (tx1.oucs.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.167]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E0FC43D09 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 17:22:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk) Received: from scan1.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.166] helo=localhost) by tx1.oucs.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ATWaU-0003zT-GW for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 01:22:54 +0000 Received: from rx1.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.165]) by localhost (scan1.oucs.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.166]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 15054-09 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 01:22:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.161.253]) by rx1.oucs.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ATWaT-0003zP-6D for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 01:22:53 +0000 Received: (qmail 22671 invoked by uid 0); 9 Dec 2003 01:22:53 -0000 Received: from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk by gateway by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (sweep: 2.14/3.71. spamassassin: 2.53. Clear:. Processed in 1.261656 secs); 09 Dec 2003 01:22:53 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk via gateway X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.16 (Clear:. Processed in 1.261656 secs) Received: from dhcp1131.wadham.ox.ac.uk (HELO piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.161.131) by gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk with SMTP; 9 Dec 2003 01:22:52 -0000 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.1.20031209011322.02df5e90@popserver.sfu.ca> X-Sender: cperciva@popserver.sfu.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 01:22:43 +0000 To: "Jason C. Wells" , chat@freebsd.org From: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: References: <3FD51E20.3080908@daleco.biz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: Get some of Bill's $$, LOL ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 01:22:57 -0000 At 17:11 08/12/2003 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: >I think that the UCB Regents recently changed the terms of the license to >delete the advertising clause. IIRC, the Stallmanites decried the single >sentence requirement of the 200 word license as too draconian for them. I don't think anyone said it was draconian; merely that it was GPL-incompatible. And they're not using BSD TCP/IP code any more; just some userland code (eg, ftp). >Everybody else would have laughed at your message but you had "$$" in your >subject header so you probably got spaminated. I thought, "Holy Crap, >Make Money Fast is still doing the rounds?" :/ I thought "is that Microsoft-is-testing-email-propagation chain letter still going around?" -- until I recognized the sender as someone who had been around for far too long to fall for that. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 8 20:07:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBEBE16A4CE for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 20:07:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from papagena.rockefeller.edu (user-0cdfenm.cable.mindspring.com [24.215.186.246]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 903AD43D20 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 20:06:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rsidd@online.fr) Received: (qmail 2887 invoked by uid 1002); 9 Dec 2003 04:07:05 -0000 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 23:07:05 -0500 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Message-ID: <20031209040705.GA2878@online.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3FD51E20.3080908@daleco.biz> X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.23 i686 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Get some of Bill's $$, LOL ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 04:07:00 -0000 "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." wrote: > from /COPYRIGHT: > > * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software > * must display the following acknowledgement: > * This product includes software developed by University of > * California, Berkeley and its contributors. Read the rest of /COPYRIGHT, particularly the part dated July 12, 1999 (actually, it's funny, but I suspect that's the bit you did read, since it's quoted by asterisks; but if you did read it, why did you send that mail?) R From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 8 20:19:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC71E16A4CE for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 20:19:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A67A43D2A for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 20:19:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.0]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 8 Dec 2003 22:22:59 -0600 Message-ID: <3FD54D4B.2090801@daleco.biz> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 22:19:23 -0600 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031124 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rahul Siddharthan References: <20031209040705.GA2878@online.fr> In-Reply-To: <20031209040705.GA2878@online.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Dec 2003 04:22:59.0562 (UTC) FILETIME=[20CBD4A0:01C3BE0C] cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Get some of Bill's $$, LOL ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 04:19:59 -0000 Rahul Siddharthan wrote: >"Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." wrote: > > >>from /COPYRIGHT: >> >> * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software >> * must display the following acknowledgement: >> * This product includes software developed by University of >> * California, Berkeley and its contributors. >> >> > >Read the rest of /COPYRIGHT, particularly the part dated July 12, 1999 > >(actually, it's funny, but I suspect that's the bit you did read, >since it's quoted by asterisks; but if you did read it, why did you >send that mail?) > >R > > Hmm, that does shed some light; what were we thinking prior to 1999? Indeed, a *golden* opportunity missed ... :-D I actually didn't get it from /COPYRIGHT --- I think I was reading ~/src...../whois.c (this would explain the asterisks as well, and I guess would answer your question.) KDK From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 9 13:59:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D97C516A4CE for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 13:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (duey.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F30143D3C for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 13:59:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E7D1FE7E; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:59:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (duey.wolves.k12.mo.us [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 55101-02-11; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:59:42 -0600 (CST) Received: by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 644FD1FE7C; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:59:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62AD81A91B; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:59:42 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:59:42 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20031209011322.02df5e90@popserver.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <20031209154543.M55369@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> References: <3FD51E20.3080908@daleco.biz> <5.0.2.1.1.20031209011322.02df5e90@popserver.sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at wolves.k12.mo.us cc: "Jason C. Wells" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Get some of Bill's $$, LOL ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:59:48 -0000 On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Colin Percival wrote: > I don't think anyone said it was draconian; merely that it was > GPL-incompatible. And they're not using BSD TCP/IP code any more; > just some userland code (eg, ftp). http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/prodtechnol/windowsserver2003/proddocs/entserver/copyright.asp Check out some of the code attributions in that copyright notice, which still includes a generic UCB attribution as well as one to Luigi Rizzo (which Phil Karn mentioned is "Luigi's reliable multicast implementation", but it could also be DummyNet, IPFW, and/or NAT related), the code from which probably came right out of FreeBSD. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon(at)wolves.k12.mo.us FreeBSD: The fastest, most open, and most stable OS on the planet - Available for IA32, IA64, PC98, Alpha, and UltraSPARC architectures - x86-64, PowerPC, ARM, MIPS, and S/390 under development - http://www.freebsd.org Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is putting a reply at the top of the message frowned upon? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 9 15:30:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82BCC16A4CE for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:30:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 144C743D29 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:30:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@natserv.com) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB9NUTbw029009 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:30:30 -0500 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:33:11 -0500 (EST) From: Francisco Reyes X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net To: FreeBSD Chat List Message-ID: <20031209182946.F80923@zoraida.natserv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Hardware vendor for Mini-ITX? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 23:30:34 -0000 On a previous thread in the questions list got suggestions for different mini-itx machines I could get to work with FreeBSD. So far have found few vendors in the US that have these. http://mini-itx.com is a great site, but sent them a question days ago and got no answer. I feel that if pre-sales questions are not answer tech support emails will do just as bad... Anyone can recommend a US based vendor to get mini-itx systems? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 9 15:47:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D540816A4CE for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:47:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (ip30.gte215.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [209.20.215.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3596F43D09 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:47:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (s1.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.201])hB9NlSsu012155; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:47:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:47:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-X-Sender: jcw@s1.stradamotorsports.com To: Francisco Reyes In-Reply-To: <20031209182946.F80923@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: Hardware vendor for Mini-ITX? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 23:47:31 -0000 On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Francisco Reyes wrote: > Anyone can recommend a US based vendor to get mini-itx systems? Out local Fry's had them in Renton, WA. Selection was weak. BTW, there are lots of small form factors out there other than mini-itx. Later, Jason From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 9 16:30:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F174D16A4CE for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:30:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F14F43D2E for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:30:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@natserv.com) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA0UAbw015216; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:30:10 -0500 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:32:52 -0500 (EST) From: Francisco Reyes X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net To: "Jason C. Wells" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031209192736.Y81162@zoraida.natserv.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: Hardware vendor for Mini-ITX? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:30:13 -0000 On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Jason C. Wells wrote: > BTW, there are lots of small form factors out there other than mini-itx. Such as? Any URLs? This is going go be a firewall for a small office. The client wants a small machine. I showed him a mini-tower from tiger-direct.com (which I hate, but the machine was semi small and dirt chip) and the client said no. He said he wants something on the 10" by 15" or less ballpark. He is getting a small footprint HP machine these days. I may borrow it to install FreeBSD and see how it works and then install whatever it's restore CDs have. Only issue with that machine is that it is near $800. A bit much for a firewall. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 9 16:58:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 663B116A4CE for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:58:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (afg.ixsystems.net [206.40.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E94B43D3C for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:58:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hBA0pLAS002257; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:51:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: (from matto@localhost) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id hBA0pLQx002256; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:51:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:51:21 -0800 From: Matt Olander To: Francisco Reyes Message-ID: <20031209165120.A1995@knight.ixsystems.net> References: <20031209182946.F80923@zoraida.natserv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20031209182946.F80923@zoraida.natserv.net>; from lists@natserv.com on Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 06:33:11PM -0500 cc: FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: Hardware vendor for Mini-ITX? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:58:58 -0000 On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 06:33:11PM -0500, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On a previous thread in the questions list got suggestions for different > mini-itx machines I could get to work with FreeBSD. So far have found few vendors > in the US that have these. http://mini-itx.com is a great site, but sent > them a question days ago and got no answer. I feel that if pre-sales > questions are not answer tech support emails will do just as bad... hi Francisco, I'm not sure, but I think my company has done stuff like this before, although, I don't see anything on the website. send an email to my product manager, roger@offmyserver.com ;) ciao, -matt -- Matt Olander (408)943-4100 Phone (408)943-4101 Fax www.offmyserver.com -- "Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't" -Mark Twain From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 9 18:55:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37C2916A4CF for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:55:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.well.com (smtp.well.com [206.14.209.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44A8543D2E for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:55:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from howardjp@well.com) Received: from well.com (well.com [206.14.209.5]) by smtp.well.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBA2t2AX014076 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:55:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by well.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id hBA2t2au004558 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:55:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:55:02 -0800 (PST) From: James Howard To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-VBS-Filter-Version: 1.14 (well.com modified) (smtp) Subject: Proposal: FreeBSD hosting cooperative X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 02:55:04 -0000 I've been looking around and Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP hosting sites are a dime a dozen. What I really want is a FreeBSD/Apache/PostgreSQL/PHP hosting site. Looking around, I've not seen anyone offering this service and nothing comes close in the $10/month price range all the LAMP sites offer. A few companies, such as 800hosting.com and RackSpace offer FreeBSD dedicated hosting, but at $99/month, this is a bit steep especially when all I need is something to host email and a couple small databases. Therefore, I propose a FreeBSD hosting cooperative. I think a few capable FreeBSD administrators could offer up $200-$300 dollars to cover start up and resell the remaining space. It probably would not turn a major profit, but it will probably pay for itself. So, I write now asking if anyone is interested. Thank you, James -- James Howard howardjp@well.com 202-390-4933 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 9 19:51:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA6E816A4CF for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:51:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.69]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83AAB43D28 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:51:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from returns@galis.org) Received: from dyn.galis.org (ool-44c1e325.dyn.optonline.net [68.193.227.37]) by mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with SMTP id <0HPN00JMOUPWRM@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 22:51:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 18880 invoked by uid 1010); Wed, 10 Dec 2003 03:51:35 +0000 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 22:51:35 -0500 From: George Georgalis In-reply-to: <20031209182946.F80923@zoraida.natserv.net> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20031210035135.GB17412@trot.local> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline MBOX-Line: From george@galis.org Tue Dec 9 22:51:35 2003 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Internet-Time: @202 References: <20031209182946.F80923@zoraida.natserv.net> Subject: Re: Hardware vendor for Mini-ITX? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 03:51:39 -0000 Hey Francisco, (remember nyc freebsd) On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 06:33:11PM -0500, Francisco Reyes wrote: >On a previous thread in the questions list got suggestions for different >mini-itx machines I could get to work with FreeBSD. So far have found few vendors >in the US that have these. http://mini-itx.com is a great site, but sent >them a question days ago and got no answer. I feel that if pre-sales >questions are not answer tech support emails will do just as bad... I know what you mean, I sent VIA a question about cases and got no response. To their credit, they probably get too many general questions, and have commercial issues preventing them from recommending 3rd party case manufactures. That said, I've been really happy with their boards in kiosk (custom) deployment. They work just like i386 (PIII I think), via audio/IDE, and the cvs xfree86 supports the special mpeg video. I would like to find a good case to run them at a colo, the cl10000 seems designed for that, with 2 eth ports. Of the tons of cases available they are mainly for home use though. So DOES anybody have a recommendation for a colo case? Below is my message to VIA. // George On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 04:59:14PM -0800, JoyY Li wrote: > >> "runs about 5-10 degrees Celsius cooler than the same CPU incorporated >> into the M10000". >> http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/cl10000 >> >Joy Li >Add: 940 Mission Court, Fremont, CA 94539 >Phone: 510-687-4636; Cell: 510-676-3424 >Fax: 510-687-4699 Web: http://www.viavpsd.com >When you want what you've never had, >you must learn to do what you've never done Hi, looks good but I've not been able to find a suitable case. small is good, but my main need is a box that: 1) has room for 2 full size ATA drives 2) will allow for quick drive replacement (in raid mirror setup) 3) internal powersupply (accepts 120v at case) 4) will survive at continuous 80 degrees F ambient (desirable) any other features for a co-location facility welcome! I have some experience with mini-itx, and I like them; but building a case, or shopping the many cases on the internet really cuts into the value, as far as my boss is concerned. Thanks! // George -- GEORGE GEORGALIS, System Admin/Architect cell: 646-331-2027 < Security Services, Web, Mail, mailto:george@galis.org Multimedia, DB, DNS and Metrics. http://www.galis.org/george From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 10 00:54:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1AD916A4CE for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:54:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.des.no (flood.des.no [217.116.83.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E79E43D1F for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:54:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id D6F915309; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:54:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id A325C5310; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:54:09 +0100 (CET) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 8A5D633C8E; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:54:09 +0100 (CET) To: James Howard References: From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:54:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: (James Howard's message of "Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:55:02 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on flood.des.no X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_SORBS autolearn=no version=2.60 cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Proposal: FreeBSD hosting cooperative X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:54:20 -0000 James Howard writes: > I've been looking around and Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP hosting sites are a > dime a dozen. What I really want is a FreeBSD/Apache/PostgreSQL/PHP > hosting site. Looking around, I've not seen anyone offering this service > and nothing comes close in the $10/month price range all the LAMP sites > offer. Maybe Pair Networks have something you can use (though they offer MySQL, not PostgreSQL) http://www.pair.com/services/web_hosting/ DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 10 05:31:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88D9216A4CF for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 05:31:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (ip30.gte215.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [209.20.215.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2809F43D2A for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 05:31:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (s1.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.201])hBADVBsu013563; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 05:31:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 05:31:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-X-Sender: jcw@s1.stradamotorsports.com To: Francisco Reyes In-Reply-To: <20031209192736.Y81162@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: Hardware vendor for Mini-ITX? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 13:31:20 -0000 On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Francisco Reyes wrote: > Such as? Any URLs? Good heavens. Where to begin? Actually, start at linuxdevices.com for some ideas. I do recall that there was one really cool format called a "DIN rail computer" that was for industrial uses but had dual intel nics that would work perfectly for a small firewall. It was the size of a matchbox, aproxx 2x3x4". At linuxdevices.com there is actually a purpose built small firewall that is something like 3x5x8. Later, Jason From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 10 05:34:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4994016A4CE for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 05:34:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (ip30.gte215.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [209.20.215.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BDD543D28 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 05:34:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (s1.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.201])hBADY2su013578; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 05:34:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 05:34:02 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-X-Sender: jcw@s1.stradamotorsports.com To: George Georgalis In-Reply-To: <20031210035135.GB17412@trot.local> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware vendor for Mini-ITX? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 13:34:05 -0000 On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, George Georgalis wrote: > So DOES anybody have a recommendation for a colo case? Try looking at Aopen Fortress 1100. It is a half length 1U case. A mini-itx should fit easily. Jason From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 10 06:05:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C291C16A4CE for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:05:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from apotheosis.cs.uct.ac.za (apotheosis.cs.uct.ac.za [137.158.128.26]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7062543D2D for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:05:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwest@uct.ac.za) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:06:20 +0200 From: Matthew West To: Francisco Reyes Message-ID: <20031210140620.GA47491@apotheosis.org.za> References: <20031209192736.Y81162@zoraida.natserv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031209192736.Y81162@zoraida.natserv.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware vendor for Mini-ITX? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:05:26 -0000 On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 07:32:52PM -0500, Francisco Reyes wrote: > This is going go be a firewall for a small office. The client wants > a small machine. I showed him a mini-tower from tiger-direct.com > (which I hate, but the machine was semi small and dirt chip) and the > client said no. He said he wants something on the 10" by 15" or > less ballpark. Have you taken a look at the single-board computers from Soekris Engineering? http://www.soekris.com/ Those should be small enough for your client. :-) I have deployed the NET4801 and NET4521 models as a firewall and firewall/wireless AP respectively, and they work perfectly. I'm running m0n0wall on them, which is a stripped down version of FreeBSD 4.9: http://m0n0.ch/ No moving parts, no noise, low power draw. Very happy with them! -- mwest@uct.ac.za From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 10 07:36:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC6BD16A559 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:36:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB60643D39 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:36:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah@intruder.kitchenlab.org) Received: from intruder.kitchenlab.org (adsl-64-142-31-106.sonic.net [64.142.31.106])hBAFa9HT009328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:36:09 -0800 Received: from intruder.kitchenlab.org (bmah@localhost [127.0.0.1]) hBAFa8O0081384; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:36:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah@intruder.kitchenlab.org) Message-Id: <200312101536.hBAFa8O0081384@intruder.kitchenlab.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.6.3 04/04/2003 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Matthew West In-Reply-To: <20031210140620.GA47491@apotheosis.org.za> References: <20031209192736.Y81162@zoraida.natserv.net> <20031210140620.GA47491@apotheosis.org.za> Comments: In-reply-to Matthew West message dated "Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:06:20 +0200." From: "Bruce A. Mah" X-Face: g~c`.{#4q0"(V*b#g[i~rXgm*w;:nMfz%_RZLma)UgGN&=j`5vXoU^@n5v4:OO)c["!w)nD/!!~e4Sj7LiT'6*wZ83454H""lb{CC%T37O!!'S$S&D}sem7I[A 2V%N&+ X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_1436899528P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:36:08 -0800 Sender: bmah@intruder.kitchenlab.org cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware vendor for Mini-ITX? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: bmah@freebsd.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:36:25 -0000 --==_Exmh_1436899528P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If memory serves me right, Matthew West wrote: > I have deployed the NET4801 and NET4521 models as a firewall and > firewall/wireless AP respectively, and they work perfectly. > > I'm running m0n0wall on them, which is a stripped down version of > FreeBSD 4.9: > > http://m0n0.ch/ > > No moving parts, no noise, low power draw. Very happy with them! Me too. I'm running m0n0wall on a net4501 as a stateful filtering bridge at home and it works very nicely. Just another satisfied customer, Bruce. --==_Exmh_1436899528P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.5+ 20020506 iD8DBQE/1z1o2MoxcVugUsMRAigKAJ9CKd5LJlb9NP4LSiQDs2XAbIDFSACgq0X8 iuO8n97TLZnimX7EhqhHpA8= =R1EI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_1436899528P-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 10 07:45:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B58E416A4CE for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:45:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 155C943D28 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:45:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@natserv.com) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAFjnbw012104; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:45:50 -0500 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:48:36 -0500 (EST) From: Francisco Reyes X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net To: Matthew West In-Reply-To: <20031210140620.GA47491@apotheosis.org.za> Message-ID: <20031210104240.J92139@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20031210140620.GA47491@apotheosis.org.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware vendor for Mini-ITX? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:45:52 -0000 On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Matthew West wrote: > Have you taken a look at the single-board computers from Soekris Engineering? > > http://www.soekris.com/ Someone else mentioned and I took a look at the site. The only thing I don't get is what do you use to "house" these cards? Do these sell a case for them? What did you use to keep FreeBSD a CD or Microdrive? > Those should be small enough for your client. :-) And the price seems very good too. > I'm running m0n0wall on them, which is a stripped down version of > FreeBSD 4.9: > http://m0n0.ch/ Thanks much for the info. Will check m0n0wall too since all I need is a firewall. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 10 07:59:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14E8416A4CE for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:59:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4218143D2E for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:59:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah@intruder.kitchenlab.org) Received: from intruder.kitchenlab.org (adsl-64-142-31-106.sonic.net [64.142.31.106])hBAFxiHT014155 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:59:44 -0800 Received: from intruder.kitchenlab.org (bmah@localhost [127.0.0.1]) hBAFxiO0081775; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:59:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah@intruder.kitchenlab.org) Message-Id: <200312101559.hBAFxiO0081775@intruder.kitchenlab.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.6.3 04/04/2003 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Francisco Reyes In-Reply-To: <20031210104240.J92139@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20031210140620.GA47491@apotheosis.org.za> <20031210104240.J92139@zoraida.natserv.net> Comments: In-reply-to Francisco Reyes message dated "Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:48:36 -0500." From: "Bruce A. Mah" X-Face: g~c`.{#4q0"(V*b#g[i~rXgm*w;:nMfz%_RZLma)UgGN&=j`5vXoU^@n5v4:OO)c["!w)nD/!!~e4Sj7LiT'6*wZ83454H""lb{CC%T37O!!'S$S&D}sem7I[A 2V%N&+ X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_1610532072P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:59:44 -0800 Sender: bmah@intruder.kitchenlab.org cc: Matthew West cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware vendor for Mini-ITX? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: bmah@freebsd.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:59:59 -0000 --==_Exmh_1610532072P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If memory serves me right, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Matthew West wrote: > > > Have you taken a look at the single-board computers from Soekris Engineerin > g? > > > > http://www.soekris.com/ > > Someone else mentioned and I took a look at the site. > The only thing I don't get is what do you use to "house" these cards? > Do these sell a case for them? You can buy the Soekris boards with or without a case. See the February 8, 2002 news item on their front page. > What did you use to keep FreeBSD a CD or Microdrive? I run m0n0wall from a compact flash card (CF). Bruce. --==_Exmh_1610532072P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.5+ 20020506 iD8DBQE/10Lw2MoxcVugUsMRAsdlAJwPrspjsKK4YGBRZaASqXWKwh05KQCdG3y/ xkPDMZvQdJriJH6CJyXaHGk= =JlXH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_1610532072P-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 10 08:39:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF14B16A4CF for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:39:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6DF543D13 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:39:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@natserv.com) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBAGdrbw031714; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:39:53 -0500 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:42:40 -0500 (EST) From: Francisco Reyes X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031210112811.S92139@zoraida.natserv.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE cc: James Howard cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Proposal: FreeBSD hosting cooperative X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:39:56 -0000 On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Dag-Erling [iso-8859-1] Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > Maybe Pair Networks have something you can use (though they offer > MySQL, not PostgreSQL) > > http://www.pair.com/services/web_hosting/ Check http://hub.org/sharedhosting.php Hub.org support PostgreSQL and I believe the owner is part of the PostgreSQL release team. I use VM (virtual machine) hosting from them and they have been very stable for over a year. Some time in the past they had problems, but it's now a thing of the past. If you plan to host many domains a VM makes more sense than shared hosting. They support several Open source packages. See list at http://hub.org/standard_features.php From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 10 22:40:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B571716A4CE for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:40:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from VARK.homeunix.com (adsl-68-121-111-46.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [68.121.111.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CAF343D21 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:40:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from VARK.homeunix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by VARK.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBB6duHj028184; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:39:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by VARK.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hBB6dtoQ028183; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:39:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:39:55 -0800 From: David Schultz To: Chris Dillon Message-ID: <20031211063955.GA28124@VARK.homeunix.com> Mail-Followup-To: Chris Dillon , Colin Percival , "Jason C. Wells" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <3FD51E20.3080908@daleco.biz> <5.0.2.1.1.20031209011322.02df5e90@popserver.sfu.ca> <20031209154543.M55369@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031209154543.M55369@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> cc: "Jason C. Wells" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Get some of Bill's $$, LOL ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:40:13 -0000 On Tue, Dec 09, 2003, Chris Dillon wrote: > On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Colin Percival wrote: > > > I don't think anyone said it was draconian; merely that it was > > GPL-incompatible. And they're not using BSD TCP/IP code any more; > > just some userland code (eg, ftp). > > http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/prodtechnol/windowsserver2003/proddocs/entserver/copyright.asp > > Check out some of the code attributions in that copyright notice, > which still includes a generic UCB attribution as well as one to Luigi > Rizzo (which Phil Karn mentioned is "Luigi's reliable multicast > implementation", but it could also be DummyNet, IPFW, and/or NAT > related), the code from which probably came right out of FreeBSD. > > -- > Chris Dillon - cdillon(at)wolves.k12.mo.us > FreeBSD: The fastest, most open, and most stable OS on the planet > - Available for IA32, IA64, PC98, Alpha, and UltraSPARC architectures It's somewhat amusing that one of the notices has the advertising clause. It looks like they didn't notice that. -- FreeSTD: The fastest, most open, and most stable women on the planet - Available for XBox, PlayStation 2, and DreamCast architectures From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 12 05:46:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E307C16A4CE for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 05:46:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8AD43D36 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 05:46:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@natserv.com) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCDk4K9000952 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:46:04 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:49:05 -0500 (EST) From: Francisco Reyes X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net To: FreeBSD Chat List Message-ID: <20031212084643.F10569@zoraida.natserv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: CF cards wear out? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:46:06 -0000 Not related directly to FreeBSD so figure chat would be more appropriate. Recently I got recommendations on this list the Soekris machines and M0n0wall for a firewall. On the M0n0Wall archives I found the following: >nothing is written to the CF card (it is usually mounted read-only), to >minimize the chance of wearing it out. Do CF cards "wear out"? Aren't they like memory? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 12 07:10:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F2B616A4CE for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:10:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from safe13.bezeqint.net (safe17.bezeqint.net [212.179.95.63]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8807A43D2D for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:09:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nimrod-me@bezeqint.net) Received: from safe17.bezeqint.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) with SMTP id EE5702080D1 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:21:51 +0200 (IST) Received: from bela.bezeqint.net ([IP=192.115.104.7]) by eSafe SMTP Relay 1071196822; Fri Dec 12 17:21:51 2003 Received: from localhost.bsd.net.il (bzq-80-50-108.red.bezeqint.net [82.80.50.108])ESMTP id 8AAA133E62 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:55:10 +0200 (IST) Received: from localhost.bsd.net.il (nimrodm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.bsd.net.il (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBCF7NXQ001965 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:07:23 +0200 (IST) (envelope-from nimrodm@localhost.bsd.net.il) Received: (from nimrodm@localhost) by localhost.bsd.net.il (8.12.9p2/8.12.6/Submit) id hBCF7N31001964 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:07:23 +0200 (IST) From: Nimrod Mesika Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:07:22 +0200 To: FreeBSD Chat List Message-ID: <20031212150722.GA1934@localhost.bsd.net.il> Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD Chat List References: <20031212084643.F10569@zoraida.natserv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031212084643.F10569@zoraida.natserv.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: CF cards wear out? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:10:02 -0000 If my memory serves me right, typical flash memory chips sustain about 100,000 erase/write cycles. That sounds like plenty, but keep in mind that filesystems tend to update some area on the 'disk' more frequently than other areas (for managing files, space allocation, etc.) Nimrod. On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 08:49:05AM -0500, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > Do CF cards "wear out"? Aren't they like memory? -- Nimrod. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 12 07:12:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 109A516A4CE for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:12:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from apotheosis.cs.uct.ac.za (apotheosis.cs.uct.ac.za [137.158.128.26]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 916B143D36 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:12:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwest@uct.ac.za) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:13:11 +0200 From: Matthew West To: Francisco Reyes Message-ID: <20031212151310.GA81432@apotheosis.org.za> References: <20031212084643.F10569@zoraida.natserv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031212084643.F10569@zoraida.natserv.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CF cards wear out? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:12:22 -0000 On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 08:49:05AM -0500, Francisco Reyes wrote: > Do CF cards "wear out"? Aren't they like memory? They are solid-state storage devices; a bit like RAM, except they remember what's stored on them even when they're not connected to a power source. :-) The pros of using CF is that its small, requires only a small amount of power to run and has no moving parts (no noise). The cons of using CF is that its storage capacity is lower than your conventional HDDs, and it has a relatively much lower number of writes in its lifespan (around 1,000,000 writes I think, it varies from product to product). The number of reads is obviously much higher than that though. However, if you're going to be using it to run a router or whatever, you're probably only going to write to the thing once or twice to set it up, and then set it to mount read-only and leave it there. What you _don't_ want it doing is churning logfiles every day. The m0n0BSD image mounts /var as a memory file system, so you still get your logfiles to watch, but they don't actually get written to the CF card. Of course, you will lose the files when the power is removed... If you're going to be using a system like the Soekris boards and your project requires a media that you can do a lot of writes too, I would recommend something like IBM's Microdrives. You should be able to fit these inside the Soekris chassis without a problem. The NET4801 has a Microdrive IDE connector on the board. -- mwest@uct.ac.za From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 12 09:46:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D8416A4CE for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8958943D09 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:45:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@natserv.com) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBCHjsK9022212; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:45:54 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:48:56 -0500 (EST) From: Francisco Reyes X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net To: Matthew West In-Reply-To: <20031212151310.GA81432@apotheosis.org.za> Message-ID: <20031212124739.N11591@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20031212084643.F10569@zoraida.natserv.net> <20031212151310.GA81432@apotheosis.org.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CF cards wear out? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:46:02 -0000 On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Matthew West wrote: > If you're going to be using a system like the Soekris boards and your > project requires a media that you can do a lot of writes too, I would > recommend something like IBM's Microdrives. You should be able to fit > these inside the Soekris chassis without a problem. The NET4801 has a > Microdrive IDE connector on the board. Someone also recommended to log to a separate machine. Will check prices for microdrives to see what it would add to the cost, but loggin to another machine may do the trick. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 12 10:24:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3399016A4CE for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:24:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41AF143D1F for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:24:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.12.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id hBCIOiHV099607; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:24:44 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost)hBCIOhxF099604; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:24:43 +0200 (EET) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:24:43 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Matthew West In-Reply-To: <20031212151310.GA81432@apotheosis.org.za> Message-ID: <20031212201345.S83003-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CF cards wear out? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:24:48 -0000 On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Matthew West wrote: > On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 08:49:05AM -0500, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > Do CF cards "wear out"? Aren't they like memory? > > They are solid-state storage devices; a bit like RAM, except they > remember what's stored on them even when they're not connected to a > power source. :-) > > The pros of using CF is that its small, requires only a small amount > of power to run and has no moving parts (no noise). > > The cons of using CF is that its storage capacity is lower than your > conventional HDDs, and it has a relatively much lower number of writes > in its lifespan (around 1,000,000 writes I think, it varies from > product to product). The number of reads is obviously much higher > than that though. > This is writes to a block (more preceicely, block erases), not writes in general. > However, if you're going to be using it to run a router or whatever, > you're probably only going to write to the thing once or twice to set > it up, and then set it to mount read-only and leave it there. > > What you _don't_ want it doing is churning logfiles every day. The > m0n0BSD image mounts /var as a memory file system, so you still get > your logfiles to watch, but they don't actually get written to the CF > card. Of course, you will lose the files when the power is removed... > Churning logfiles is an extremely OK thing for a CF, *PROVIDED* you use a reaosnably sized CF and a CF friendly file system (neither FAT nor UFS are really). it takes a loong time to overwrite 128MB card 100000 times. > If you're going to be using a system like the Soekris boards and your > project requires a media that you can do a lot of writes too, I would > recommend something like IBM's Microdrives. You should be able to fit > these inside the Soekris chassis without a problem. The NET4801 has a > Microdrive IDE connector on the board. > > -- > mwest@uct.ac.za > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 12 10:28:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FE1716A4CE for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:28:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA8043D31 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:28:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.12.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id hBCIS1HV099645; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:28:01 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost)hBCIS1sE099642; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:28:01 +0200 (EET) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:28:01 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Francisco Reyes In-Reply-To: <20031212124739.N11591@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20031212202505.V83003-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Matthew West cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CF cards wear out? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:28:03 -0000 A microdrive costs about 100 EUR less than similar sized CF card. But note that microdrives are in CF card II, not CF card I format. On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Matthew West wrote: > > > If you're going to be using a system like the Soekris boards and your > > project requires a media that you can do a lot of writes too, I would > > recommend something like IBM's Microdrives. You should be able to fit > > these inside the Soekris chassis without a problem. The NET4801 has a > > Microdrive IDE connector on the board. > > > Someone also recommended to log to a separate machine. > Will check prices for microdrives to see what it would add to the cost, > but loggin to another machine may do the trick. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 12 15:38:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6064316A4CE for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:38:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from praetor.linc-it.com (adsl-068-157-070-217.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [68.157.70.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDD8143D2D for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:38:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-19-137-169.jan.bellsouth.net [68.19.137.169]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by praetor.linc-it.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 899291521C; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:38:23 -0600 (CST) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 4C43620F26; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:38:21 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:38:20 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Matthew West Message-ID: <20031212233820.GB78055@over-yonder.net> References: <20031212084643.F10569@zoraida.natserv.net> <20031212151310.GA81432@apotheosis.org.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031212151310.GA81432@apotheosis.org.za> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CF cards wear out? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 23:38:26 -0000 On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 05:13:11PM +0200 I heard the voice of Matthew West, and lo! it spake thus: > > If you're going to be using a system like the Soekris boards and your > project requires a media that you can do a lot of writes too, I would > recommend something like IBM's Microdrives. You should be able to fit > these inside the Soekris chassis without a problem. The NET4801 has a > Microdrive IDE connector on the board. Note, though, that Microdrives tend to have a really low advertised MTBF. I mean, _really_ low. Like, maybe a year of constant running? -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 12 17:04:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7745316A4CE for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:04:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA67C43D2D for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:04:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from francisco@natserv.net) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBD13xK9006759; Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:04:00 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:07:04 -0500 (EST) From: Francisco X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net To: "Matthew D. Fuller" In-Reply-To: <20031212233820.GB78055@over-yonder.net> Message-ID: <20031212200601.X13667@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20031212084643.F10569@zoraida.natserv.net> <20031212233820.GB78055@over-yonder.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Matthew West cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CF cards wear out? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 01:04:18 -0000 On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > > Note, though, that Microdrives tend to have a really low advertised MTBF. > I mean, _really_ low. Like, maybe a year of constant running? Thanks much for the warning. I was a bit undecided, but that last piece of info really pushes me in the direction of a CF card and log to a separate machine. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 13 12:30:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2313C16A4CE for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:30:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FBC243D2D for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:30:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.12.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id hBDKUWHV016122; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:30:32 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost)hBDKUUkL016119; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:30:31 +0200 (EET) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:30:30 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Matthew D. Fuller" In-Reply-To: <20031212233820.GB78055@over-yonder.net> Message-ID: <20031213222430.F83003-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Matthew West cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CF cards wear out? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 20:30:36 -0000 On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 05:13:11PM +0200 I heard the voice of > Matthew West, and lo! it spake thus: > > > > If you're going to be using a system like the Soekris boards and your > > project requires a media that you can do a lot of writes too, I would > > recommend something like IBM's Microdrives. You should be able to fit > > these inside the Soekris chassis without a problem. The NET4801 has a > > Microdrive IDE connector on the board. > > Note, though, that Microdrives tend to have a really low advertised MTBF. > I mean, _really_ low. Like, maybe a year of constant running? > and don't get into the habit of dropping it. Its a small delicate thing. in the 1gb range and cf crd sizes, cf cards are much better suited to most tasks [obvious things like page device excepted]. > > > -- > Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net > Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ > > "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I > haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 13 18:47:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BA0916A4CF for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 18:47:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from tx0.oucs.ox.ac.uk (tx0.oucs.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8872043D37 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 18:46:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk) Received: from scan0.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.162] helo=localhost) by tx0.oucs.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AVMHX-0002e4-EW for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:46:55 +0000 Received: from rx0.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.161]) by localhost (scan0.oucs.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.162]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 09709-08 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:46:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.161.253]) by rx0.oucs.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AVMHX-0002dy-15 for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:46:55 +0000 Received: (qmail 25083 invoked by uid 0); 14 Dec 2003 02:46:55 -0000 Received: from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk by gateway by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (sweep: 2.14/3.71. spamassassin: 2.53. Clear:. Processed in 1.444152 secs); 14 Dec 2003 02:46:55 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk via gateway X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.16 (Clear:. Processed in 1.444152 secs) Received: from dhcp1131.wadham.ox.ac.uk (HELO piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.161.131) by gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk with SMTP; 14 Dec 2003 02:46:53 -0000 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.1.20031214024127.01ce91e0@popserver.sfu.ca> X-Sender: cperciva@popserver.sfu.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:46:52 +0000 To: Brett Glass From: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031213193204.04e81d10@localhost> References: <20031211073336.GO57995@zeus.theinternet.com.au> <6.0.0.22.2.20031210115335.04c2fc50@localhost> <20031210093927.70c87960.amonk@gnutec.com> <6.0.0.22.2.20031210124332.04e94ac0@localhost> <16343.33321.632599.190251@oscar.buszard-welcher.com> <6.0.0.22.2.20031210173916.04f57be8@localhost> <3FD7C240.4030005@tenebras.com> <6.0.0.22.2.20031210193940.04f82c20@localhost> <20031211073336.GO57995@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: s/key authentication for Apache on FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:47:00 -0000 At 19:33 13/12/2003 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >Alas, many cybercafes -- especially those in Europe -- give you access to >a screen and a keyboard... and nothing else. They're worried that if >you can put media in the machine you can infect it or Trojan it. Based on what I've seen here in .uk, I suspect that the lack of drives has more to do with wanting to avoiding physical damage. Food and computers don't mix very well. Colin Percival [Followup-to: chat] From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 13 18:56:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6A8916A4CE; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 18:56:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.albury.net.au (giroc.albury.NET.AU [203.15.244.13]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7727443D35; Sat, 13 Dec 2003 18:56:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rossw@albury.net.au) Received: from giroc.albury.net.au (giroc.albury.net.au [203.15.244.13]) by mail.albury.net.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id hBE2uXX70255; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:56:33 +1100 (EST) X-Delivered-To: security@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:56:32 +1100 (EST) From: Ross Wheeler To: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20031214024127.01ce91e0@popserver.sfu.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: s/key authentication for Apache on FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:56:52 -0000 On Sun, 14 Dec 2003, Colin Percival wrote: > At 19:33 13/12/2003 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > >Alas, many cybercafes -- especially those in Europe -- give you access to > >a screen and a keyboard... and nothing else. They're worried that if > >you can put media in the machine you can infect it or Trojan it. > > Based on what I've seen here in .uk, I suspect that the lack of drives > has more to do with wanting to avoiding physical damage. Food and > computers don't mix very well. As someone who runs an ISP *AND* an Internet Cafe (well, more specifically a "public access centre"), I can say that both these arguments are important considerations, but also a third one that hasn't been mentioned, and that is one of reducing appeal for would be thieves. WHEN (not if) the joint gets "cased", if the monitor and keyboard are the only things that are visible, the "appeal" of a bunch of readily accessible, easily sold computers is removed. We rarely have people who want to put on (or take off) their own material, but those who do generally want to download a file (driver, patch, pdf, document) or send a file (accounts file, letter, resume' or photos) and we do that from another machine at the counter (after scanning for virus etc). Loading executables is something we don't do at all unless there are exceptional circumstances. RossW