From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 30 00:10:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3F0537B405; Sun, 30 Mar 2003 00:10:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from nezlok.unixathome.org (nezlok.unixathome.org [64.251.91.55]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96F1B43F75; Sun, 30 Mar 2003 00:10:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@nezlok.unixathome.org) Received: by nezlok.unixathome.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CE494AE4BF; Sun, 30 Mar 2003 00:10:01 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Langille To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20030330081001.CE494AE4BF@nezlok.unixathome.org> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 00:10:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: The FreeBSD Diary: 2003-03-09 - 2003-03-29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 08:10:04 -0000 The FreeBSD Diary contains a large number of practical examples and how-to guides. This message is posted weekly to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org with the aim of letting people know what's available on the website. Before you post a question here it might be a good idea to first search the mailing list archives and/or The FreeBSD Diary . -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/ - practical examples FreshPorts - http://www.FreshPorts.org/ - the place for ports FreshSource - http://www.FreshSource.org/ - the place for source From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 30 05:49:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E573D37B401 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 2003 05:49:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mpls-qmqp-01.inet.qwest.net (mpls-qmqp-01.inet.qwest.net [63.231.195.112]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3B52843FB1 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 2003 05:49:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wolfryder@qwest.net) Received: (qmail 98554 invoked by uid 0); 30 Mar 2003 13:49:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (63.231.195.1) by mpls-qmqp-01.inet.qwest.net with QMQP; 30 Mar 2003 13:49:48 -0000 Received: from adsl189.omah.uswest.net (HELO wolf.qwest.net) (209.180.104.189) by mpls-pop-01.inet.qwest.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2003 13:49:47 -0000 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 07:55:51 -0600 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20030330074003.00ac3dd0@pop.omah.uswest.net> From: "WolfRyder" To: FST777@phreaker.net, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Sender: wolfryder@pop.omah.uswest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 In-Reply-To: <0HCJ00245JHP9E@net.WAU.NL> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 13:49:52 -0000 At 04:42 AM 3/30/03 +0107, Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek wrote: >Maybe some Norwegian members of the list can speak English on a high level, >maybe even higher than "native" english-speakers, but some Dutchmen on the >list (at least one of them, namely me) cannot follow everything of this >story. Allthough I did get the major part of it, I wonder why such >complicated language is needed. I understand the humor behind it, but I'd >like to say to all of you: SPEAK NORMAL ENGLISH. (no offense :) ) There is no such thing as "Normal English", not even in Great Britain, much less in the U.S., where every area of the country pronounces things differently (much like in the Netherlands, I'd say ;-) ) I always tell people I can speak 2 languages fluently...English and Southern English ;-) >Sometimes I even find the manuals too complicated. Open-Source-fighters >should write all their text (especially their manuals) in understandable >english for the "other part" of the community. That's what came up in my >mind while reading this. I am a native English speaker and most of the manuals are too complicated for me as well. That's because (in my opinion) they're written by technical people, not English (language) majors (no slam intended against either profession). That's when I turn to other sources to help me understand what the heck the manuals are saying or just skip the manuals and go to the gurus. >Speaking of the debate here held: I must agree with mr. Clark. Allthough I >like the style and attitude of mr. Manavado (sounds like an "ancient" >behaviour in the Metal-scene) it is clear that no-one should expect from a >non-native english-speaking newbie in the BSD-community to talk >"Queens-english". At least I am refusing to do so. My spouse is Dutch and has lived in the U.S. for the past 6 years. Where he works (as the systems admin), he's usually asked to proof-read stuff before it's printed because he's the only one who knows English grammar and spelling better than the people he works with. And those he works with _do_ have degrees and education...American education. Carol >On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Lal Manavado wrote: > > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:37:58 -0800 > > To: > > From: "Lal Manavado" > > Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) > > > > As for English not being the first language of many a user, it only > > hightens > > the cogency of our point; namely, a sound knowledge of English would be > > of > > considerable help. There is no logical reason why someone whose second or > > third tongue is English cannot surpass the so-called native speakers, > > some > > of whom merely emit sounds, which they fondly believe to be English. > > > > Hail to thee! > > > > L. M. > >May the blessings of our Emperor be with thee to the end of all ages! > >Fi-Ji From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 30 11:10:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B66937B405 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 2003 11:10:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail59.fg.online.no (mail59-s.fg.online.no [148.122.161.59]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57ABB43F85 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 2003 11:10:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from manavado@frisurf.no) Received: from tocom (ti100710a142-0123.dialup.online.no [130.67.41.251]) by mail59.fg.online.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA03622; Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:10:26 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <002001c2f73e$fefe31e0$2e144382@tocom> From: "Lal Manavado" To: "Lal Manavado" , Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 20:23:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 19:11:04 -0000 > Sir, > > We are at a loss to comprehend why you refer to 'some Norwegian members' > of the list. If we may reiterate our contention, it is necessary for one to > master the vocabulary of a field in order to become adept in that field. > > Meanwhile the vocabulary of a field is rooted in a language, and forms a > part of its lexicon. Thus, a sound knowledge of the language concerned, > English, would be an asset in mastering fbsd. > > Although its putative virtues have been bandied about for many a year, > simplification is more conducive to the production of simpletons than to > promote understanding. > > So, vive le pedant! > > As Charlie Clark has so aptly pointed out, this tongue-in-the-cheek dispute > has little to do with fbsd. Hence, let us now drink a glass to its ending, > as the tradesmen might say, on a high note! > > Cheers! Pros't! Salute! salut! Skål! > > L. M. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek > To: Lal Manavado ; > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 7:35 PM > Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) > > > > > > Maybe some Norwegian members of the list can speak English on a high > level, > > maybe even higher than "native" english-speakers, but some Dutchmen on the > > list (at least one of them, namely me) cannot follow everything of this > > story. Allthough I did get the major part of it, I wonder why such > > complicated language is needed. I understand the humor behind it, but I'd > > like to say to all of you: SPEAK NORMAL ENGLISH. (no offense :) ) > > > > Sometimes I even find the manuals too complicated. Open-Source-fighters > > should write all their text (especially their manuals) in understandable > > english for the "other part" of the community. That's what came up in my > > mind while reading this. > > > > Speaking of the debate here held: I must agree with mr. Clark. Allthough I > > like the style and attitude of mr. Manavado (sounds like an "ancient" > > behaviour in the Metal-scene) it is clear that no-one should expect from a > > non-native english-speaking newbie in the BSD-community to talk > > "Queens-english". At least I am refusing to do so. > > > > On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Lal Manavado wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:37:58 -0800 > > > To: > > > From: "Lal Manavado" > > > Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) > > > > > > As for English not being the first language of many a user, it only > > > hightens > > > the cogency of our point; namely, a sound knowledge of English would be > > > of > > > considerable help. There is no logical reason why someone whose second > or > > > third tongue is English cannot surpass the so-called native speakers, > > > some > > > of whom merely emit sounds, which they fondly believe to be English. > > > > > > Hail to thee! > > > > > > L. M. > > > > May the blessings of our Emperor be with thee to the end of all ages! > > > > Fi-Ji > > > > > From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 31 00:09:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D03137B40B for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 00:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cordis.lu (mail.cordis.lu [212.190.217.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D515643F3F for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 00:09:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from a.carter@cordis.lu) Received: from mailsvr.intrasoft.lu (mail.intrasoft.lu [212.190.217.251]) by mail.cordis.lu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2V8BaqE031998 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:11:37 +0200 Received: by mail.intrasoft.lu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:06:35 +0200 Received: from intra241.intrasoft.lu (212.190.217.170 [212.190.217.170]) by mailsvr.intrasoft.lu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2656.59) id HXZK8N98; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:06:30 +0200 From: CARTER Anthony To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Organization: Intrasoft Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:14:20 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <0HCJ00245JHP9E@net.WAU.NL> In-Reply-To: <0HCJ00245JHP9E@net.WAU.NL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200303311014.21250.a.carter@intrasoft.lu> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-126.1 required=4.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT,USER_IN_WHITELIST version=2.50 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:09:10 -0000 IMHO (In My Humble Opinion), if anyone has any gripes with the language in the documentation for freebsd, instead of complaining to FreeBSD mailing lists, they should get involved with the documentation projects and write an "understandable" version. I don't mind people complaining about things, but instead of just complaining, suggesting changes would be more useful and, I guess, very welcomed. So, next time you find a complicated man page or technical article, find out the answer by asking questions on mailing lists etc., figure out what it means, and then re-write the documentation in a way that you would find useful for others in your situation. Then submit it for approval and basta, everyone profits. In the end, with everyone doing just a little, the documentation could be vastly improved for non-technical people. Anthony Carter On Sunday 30 March 2003 05:35, Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek wrote: > Maybe some Norwegian members of the list can speak English on a high level, > maybe even higher than "native" english-speakers, but some Dutchmen on the > list (at least one of them, namely me) cannot follow everything of this > story. Allthough I did get the major part of it, I wonder why such > complicated language is needed. I understand the humor behind it, but I'd > like to say to all of you: SPEAK NORMAL ENGLISH. (no offense :) ) > > Sometimes I even find the manuals too complicated. Open-Source-fighters > should write all their text (especially their manuals) in understandable > english for the "other part" of the community. That's what came up in my > mind while reading this. > > Speaking of the debate here held: I must agree with mr. Clark. Allthough I > like the style and attitude of mr. Manavado (sounds like an "ancient" > behaviour in the Metal-scene) it is clear that no-one should expect from a > non-native english-speaking newbie in the BSD-community to talk > "Queens-english". At least I am refusing to do so. > > On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Lal Manavado wrote: > > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:37:58 -0800 > > To: > > From: "Lal Manavado" > > Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) > > > > As for English not being the first language of many a user, it only > > hightens > > the cogency of our point; namely, a sound knowledge of English would be > > of > > considerable help. There is no logical reason why someone whose second or > > third tongue is English cannot surpass the so-called native speakers, > > some > > of whom merely emit sounds, which they fondly believe to be English. > > > > Hail to thee! > > > > L. M. > > May the blessings of our Emperor be with thee to the end of all ages! > > Fi-Ji > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 31 07:39:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFE9337B401 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:39:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from web20310.mail.yahoo.com (web20310.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.91]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4F21E43FBD for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:39:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rstunna1@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030331153935.26846.qmail@web20310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.128.167.68] by web20310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:39:35 PST Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:39:35 -0800 (PST) From: Rodney Salomon To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Sony VAIO w/ FBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:39:42 -0000 Anybody ever install FBSD on a VAIO? Any issues with the PCMCIA card? Im trying to install on a F-350. ===== Look at all the pretty C shells! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 31 07:46:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B4E237B401 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:46:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from issv0170.isis.de (issv0170.isis.de [195.158.131.222]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A44D943F85 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:46:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from charlie@begeistert.org) Received: (qmail 17429 invoked by uid 1010); 31 Mar 2003 15:46:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wonderland.1049117054.fake) ([195.158.156.245]) (envelope-sender ) by mail.isis.de (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 31 Mar 2003 15:46:07 -0000 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:47:48 +0200 From: Charlie Clark In-Reply-To: <20030331153935.26846.qmail@web20310.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <20030331174748.1655.9@wonderland.1049117054.fake> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20030331153935.26846.qmail@web20310.mail.yahoo.com> To: Rodney Salomon User-Agent: Beam devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sony VAIO w/ FBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:46:43 -0000 On 2003-03-31 at 17:39:35 [+0200], Rodney Salomon wrote: > Anybody ever install FBSD on a VAIO? Any issues with the PCMCIA card? > Im trying to install on a F-350. Yes and yes. I've managed to install FreeBSD 4.6 on my GRX (different chipset than yours) but have problems with 4.7 (DVD/CD drive) and 5.0 definitely the PC-Card controller. Please provide more details about your machine and which version of FreeBSD you are trying to install and direct your question to FreeBSD-questions@freebsd.org as freeBSD-newbies isn't the right place. Charlie From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 31 09:54:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E04B237B401 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:54:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from swissgeeks.com (adsl-212-101-16-119.solnet.ch [212.101.16.119]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 26D0A43F3F for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:54:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pbrossin@swissgeeks.com) Received: (qmail 23771 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2003 17:54:53 -0000 Received: from pc-00020 (HELO swissgeeks.com) (10.0.0.20) by server.swissgeeks.com (10.0.0.1) with ESMTP; 31 Mar 2003 17:54:53 -0000 Message-ID: <3E888158.60808@swissgeeks.com> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 19:56:40 +0200 From: Pierrick Brossin Organization: SwissGeeks - http://www.swissgeeks.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030221 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rodney Salomon References: <20030331153935.26846.qmail@web20310.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030331153935.26846.qmail@web20310.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sony VAIO w/ FBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:54:58 -0000 Rodney Salomon wrote: > Anybody ever install FBSD on a VAIO? Any issues with > the PCMCIA card? Im trying to install on a F-350. I got a SONY Vaio F-707 (PIII 600 Mhz) no problem! -- Pierrick Brossin IT Employee Mail: pbrossin_AT_swissgeeks.com Web: http://www.swissgeeks.com From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 31 10:07:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A41DD37B404 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:07:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccisd.k12.mi.us (ccisd.k12.mi.us [65.174.34.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89FF43FBF for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:07:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from efeldhusen@chartermi.net) Received: from chartermi.net (172.16.100.103) by ccisd.k12.mi.us with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:07:37 -0500 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:07:38 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Eric J.Feldhusen To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3E888158.60808@swissgeeks.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Subject: Re: Sony VAIO w/ FBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:07:43 -0000 Just curious, has anyone tried a NV170? With any of the 4.x or 5.0? Eric Feldhusen On Monday, March 31, 2003, at 12:56 PM, Pierrick Brossin wrote: > Rodney Salomon wrote: >> Anybody ever install FBSD on a VAIO? Any issues with >> the PCMCIA card? Im trying to install on a F-350. > > I got a SONY Vaio F-707 (PIII 600 Mhz) no problem! From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 31 11:14:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DD8437B401 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:14:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (thor.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9ABE43FA3 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:14:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HCM0018NO2Q9Y@thor.acuson.com> for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:13:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:04:32 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-117.acuson.com ([157.226.46.117]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id GNSX16AR; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:06:04 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:13:40 -0800 From: Johnson David In-reply-to: <0HCJ00245JHP9E@net.WAU.NL> To: FST777@phreaker.net, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-id: <200303311113.40126.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <0HCJ00245JHP9E@net.WAU.NL> Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 19:14:12 -0000 On Saturday 29 March 2003 07:35 pm, Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek wrote: > Sometimes I even find the manuals too complicated. > Open-Source-fighters should write all their text (especially their > manuals) in understandable english for the "other part" of the > community. That's what came up in my mind while reading this. If there is jargon in the documentation, it should be removed. But reducing its verbiage to the lowest common denominator is excessive. In the US (and maybe even in other English speaking nations), there has been a movement to "dumb down" communication so that we do not offend those who might have failed the second and third grade. We even have newspapers written to that level. The sarcastic responses you have seen here are merely visceral reactions to against a perceived goal to dumb down the FreeBSD documentation to the level of "USA Today". David From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 31 13:18:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66BDD37B401 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:18:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from spitfire.velocet.net (spitfire.velocet.net [216.138.223.227]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E2B143F85 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:18:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jeff@passedpawn.com) Received: from wenk (H204.C233.tor.velocet.net [216.138.233.204]) by spitfire.velocet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DEB364B7F6C; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:18:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000201c2f7e5$0f55d510$b300a8c0@wenk> From: "Jeff Shevlen" To: "CARTER Anthony" , References: <0HCJ00245JHP9E@net.WAU.NL> <200303311014.21250.a.carter@intrasoft.lu> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:25:13 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 21:18:43 -0000 In my humble opinion this thread has been nothing but noise for about a week. Some joker (a.k.a. Lal Manavado) has been giving his thesarus a workout and that's about it. If you have nothing constructive to say, don't broadcast it. Otherwise I'm with Anthony - join the docs project and do something about it. Say it don't spray it. Let's propose a merciful end to this thread. ----- Original Message ----- From: "CARTER Anthony" To: Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 12:14 AM Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) > IMHO (In My Humble Opinion), if anyone has any gripes with the language in the > documentation for freebsd, instead of complaining to FreeBSD mailing lists, > they should get involved with the documentation projects and write an > "understandable" version. I don't mind people complaining about things, but > instead of just complaining, suggesting changes would be more useful and, I > guess, very welcomed. > > So, next time you find a complicated man page or technical article, find out > the answer by asking questions on mailing lists etc., figure out what it > means, and then re-write the documentation in a way that you would find > useful for others in your situation. Then submit it for approval and basta, > everyone profits. In the end, with everyone doing just a little, the > documentation could be vastly improved for non-technical people. > > Anthony Carter > > > > On Sunday 30 March 2003 05:35, Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek wrote: > > Maybe some Norwegian members of the list can speak English on a high level, > > maybe even higher than "native" english-speakers, but some Dutchmen on the > > list (at least one of them, namely me) cannot follow everything of this > > story. Allthough I did get the major part of it, I wonder why such > > complicated language is needed. I understand the humor behind it, but I'd > > like to say to all of you: SPEAK NORMAL ENGLISH. (no offense :) ) > > > > Sometimes I even find the manuals too complicated. Open-Source-fighters > > should write all their text (especially their manuals) in understandable > > english for the "other part" of the community. That's what came up in my > > mind while reading this. > > > > Speaking of the debate here held: I must agree with mr. Clark. Allthough I > > like the style and attitude of mr. Manavado (sounds like an "ancient" > > behaviour in the Metal-scene) it is clear that no-one should expect from a > > non-native english-speaking newbie in the BSD-community to talk > > "Queens-english". At least I am refusing to do so. > > > > On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Lal Manavado wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:37:58 -0800 > > > To: > > > From: "Lal Manavado" > > > Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) > > > > > > As for English not being the first language of many a user, it only > > > hightens > > > the cogency of our point; namely, a sound knowledge of English would be > > > of > > > considerable help. There is no logical reason why someone whose second or > > > third tongue is English cannot surpass the so-called native speakers, > > > some > > > of whom merely emit sounds, which they fondly believe to be English. > > > > > > Hail to thee! > > > > > > L. M. > > > > May the blessings of our Emperor be with thee to the end of all ages! > > > > Fi-Ji > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 31 18:18:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB4D637B401 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:18:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from net.wau.nl (NET.WAU.NL [137.224.10.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB6243FBF for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:18:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from FST777@phreaker.net) Received: from asser079.athome239.wau.nl (asser079.athome239.wau.nl [137.224.239.79]) by net.WAU.NL (PMDF V5.2-32 #38746) with ESMTP id <0HCN00J107QS1W@net.WAU.NL> for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 04:18:28 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 04:19:15 +0107 (CEST) From: "Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek" To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-id: <0HCN00J117QS1W@net.WAU.NL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Spruce 0.6.5 for X11 w/smtpio 0.7.9 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: FST777@phreaker.net List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 02:18:31 -0000 At first: understandable documentation should begin at the beginning (and it won't be perfect, I know). Second: the people complaining about the documentation are newbies with FreeBSD (like me) and many times newbies in the Open-Source community (like me). Writing documentation is then just a few steps too far away. Third: on many issues good documentation exists but is NOT included in the packages (I think because they are mostly not entirely complete). Making a good documentation wich is understandable AND complete is almost impossible, so maybe the goals should first be changed. IMHO the concept of "man-pages" is as good as outdated as GUI-enviroments become more popular. People are often complaining that the "Unixxes" should make themselves as user-friendly as Window$ is. That is not possible (because doing so simply creates bugs) but things can improve. Documentation is a good thing to start with. I have not the skill to do it, else I would already have created a concept. On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, CARTER Anthony wrote: > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:14:20 +0200 > To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org > From: CARTER Anthony > Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) > > IMHO (In My Humble Opinion), if anyone has any gripes with the language in the > documentation for freebsd, instead of complaining to FreeBSD mailing lists, > they should get involved with the documentation projects and write an > "understandable" version. I don't mind people complaining about things, > but instead of just complaining, suggesting changes would be more useful and, > I guess, very welcomed. > > So, next time you find a complicated man page or technical article, find > out the answer by asking questions on mailing lists etc., figure out what it > means, and then re-write the documentation in a way that you would find > useful for others in your situation. Then submit it for approval and > basta, everyone profits. In the end, with everyone doing just a little, the > documentation could be vastly improved for non-technical people. > > Anthony Carter From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 31 18:46:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 414EA37B401 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:46:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (thor.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AB6243FAF for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:46:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HCN000O990SWA@thor.acuson.com> for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:46:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:36:58 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-117.acuson.com ([157.226.46.117]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id GNSXFC6N; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:38:21 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:45:57 -0800 From: Johnson David In-reply-to: <0HCN00J117QS1W@net.WAU.NL> To: FST777@phreaker.net, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-id: <200303311845.57470.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <0HCN00J117QS1W@net.WAU.NL> Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 02:46:28 -0000 On Monday 31 March 2003 07:12 pm, Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek wrote: > IMHO the concept of "man-pages" is as good > as outdated as GUI-enviroments become more popular. One could almost say that books are as good as outdated as television becomes more popular :-) The alternative to man pages would seem to be some sort of browser, and HTML makes sense. But man pages are more than just pages. They are pages indexed into an information system. You gain one form of flexibility by moving to a browser, but at the expense of another kind. You don't want to be typing "mozilla file:/usr/share/man/man1/cat_1.html". You want the man pages at your fingertips. The solution is to integrate man pages into a browser. This has already been done! Using KDE, I can view the man pages index Konqueror by typing "man:" as the URL. I can also use the KDE Help Center for the same thing. Also in Konqueror I can go right to the man page I want by typing "man:cat" or "#cat". Best of all, the man pages are now pleasantly formatted and *hyperlinked*. (KDE needs to add "apropos" as an IO slave as well). There are other similar solutions. I brought up KDE because I am more familiar with it. David From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 1 13:15:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F29837B401 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:15:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from web20304.mail.yahoo.com (web20304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B3B5543F85 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:15:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rstunna1@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030401211520.29854.qmail@web20304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.20.58.68] by web20304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:15:20 PST Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:15:20 -0800 (PST) From: Rodney Salomon To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.Org, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.Org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Gnome screenshots X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:15:21 -0000 How can I get a screenshot of my desktop? TIA ===== Look at all the pretty C shells! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://platinum.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 1 13:19:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5776E37B401 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:19:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.nckcn.com (ns2.nckcn.com [206.253.56.67]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2310443F85 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:19:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from davidc@huyett.com) Received: from 192.168.0.100 (ip-209-42-82-208.nckcn.com [209.42.82.208]) by ns2.nckcn.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h31L8s221710 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:08:54 -0600 Received: from MM02 ([192.168.0.80]) by 192.168.0.100 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:20:03 -0600 From: "David Chavarria" To: "FreeBSD Newbies" Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:21:01 -0600 Organization: GL Huyett Message-ID: <000901c2f894$989cdb20$5000a8c0@MM02> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 In-Reply-To: <000201c2f7e5$0f55d510$b300a8c0@wenk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Apr 2003 21:20:03.0078 (UTC) FILETIME=[758C6A60:01C2F894] Subject: RE: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words)(originally Dictionary of Terms) X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: davidc@huyett.com List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:19:29 -0000 Amen to that. I'm sorry I started this thread. I just wondered if there was a dictionary of terms that I could reference. There were some helpful links given and that is appreciated. If anybody else has any helpful links or reference material or books to recommend please do! Even though there is a lot I would like to say about some of the comments made, I will refrain from doing so because it's not worth my time. Thanks again for the links, Jerry Dunham and Ataualpa Albert Carmo Braga! -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Shevlen Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 4:25 PM To: CARTER Anthony; freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) In my humble opinion this thread has been nothing but noise for about a week. Some joker (a.k.a. Lal Manavado) has been giving his thesarus a workout and that's about it. If you have nothing constructive to say, don't broadcast it. Otherwise I'm with Anthony - join the docs project and do something about it. Say it don't spray it. Let's propose a merciful end to this thread. On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 02:15:59PM -0600, David Chavarria wrote: > I like the man pages and the handbook, but I was wondering if anyone > knew of a dictionary that alphabetically listed FreeBSD/Unix terms? > Or, is my best bet to just man a term I don't know when I come across > it? From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 1 13:25:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10AC437B401; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:25:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from creme-brulee.marcuscom.com (rdu57-17-158.nc.rr.com [66.57.17.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16CE243FAF; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:25:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcus@marcuscom.com) Received: from [10.2.1.4] (vpn-client-4.marcuscom.com [10.2.1.4]) h31LO2Tc051268; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:24:02 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from marcus@marcuscom.com) From: Joe Marcus Clarke To: Rodney Salomon In-Reply-To: <20030401211520.29854.qmail@web20304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030401211520.29854.qmail@web20304.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-D/b/cVzJpAA1ak5Ok4Qu" Organization: MarcusCom, Inc. Message-Id: <1049232288.315.44.camel@gyros> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.3 Date: 01 Apr 2003 16:24:48 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-39.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,PGP_SIGNATURE_2, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,QUOTE_TWICE_1,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES autolearn=ham version=2.50 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) cc: FreeBSD User Questions List cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gnome screenshots X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:25:04 -0000 --=-D/b/cVzJpAA1ak5Ok4Qu Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 16:15, Rodney Salomon wrote: > How can I get a screenshot of my desktop? In GNOME 2, go to Actions->Screenshot... In GNOME 1, use gimp, xwd, or ImageMagick. Joe >=20 > TIA >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Look at all the pretty C shells! >=20 > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more > http://platinum.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" --=20 PGP Key : http://www.marcuscom.com/pgp.asc --=-D/b/cVzJpAA1ak5Ok4Qu Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQA+igOgb2iPiv4Uz4cRAqN7AJ9OUPPX8nE1+gWdheTO6tja2REbdACfW9nE Lbl6dMz8dCJUF1TWuSqzTnM= =4vJK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-D/b/cVzJpAA1ak5Ok4Qu-- From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 1 13:31:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A92137B404; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:31:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from webserver2.rtl.org (rtl-3.i2k.com [63.94.12.207]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E51A543FAF; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:31:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jstewart@rtl.org) Received: from [10.0.0.89] (rtl-2.i2k.com [63.94.12.206]) by webserver2.rtl.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h31LVLj19023; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:31:21 -0500 From: Jason Stewart To: Rodney Salomon In-Reply-To: <20030401211520.29854.qmail@web20304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030401211520.29854.qmail@web20304.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 (1.0.8-11) Date: 01 Apr 2003 16:32:39 -0500 Message-Id: <1049232759.1448.61.camel@mis3> Mime-Version: 1.0 cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gnome screenshots X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:31:48 -0000 Hi Rodney, Try using the gimp. Aquire->Screen Shot. Good Day, Jason On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 16:15, Rodney Salomon wrote: > How can I get a screenshot of my desktop? > > TIA > > ===== > Look at all the pretty C shells! > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more > http://platinum.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 1 21:27:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A22237B401 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:27:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from cobalt.4gl.com (cobalt.4gl.com [66.212.110.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC2C743F75 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:27:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ttyson@championelevators.com) Received: from 201 (node-97-98.4gl.com [66.212.97.98] (may be forged)) by cobalt.4gl.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA28023; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:17:56 -0600 From: "Terry Tyson" To: "CARTER Anthony" , Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:05:24 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200303311014.21250.a.carter@intrasoft.lu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Subject: RE: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 05:27:08 -0000 I am new to both Unix and FreeBSD so I can't offer much technical help. However, I would like to give something back to the community as I am able. Before getting into mechanical/structural design, I worked as a technical writer. Perhaps this is where I can contribute. As mentioned earlier, I am new to FBSD but I learn fast and can write content that most people can understand. I will contact the documentation group and see if there is anything I can do. (I did not see a glossary in the handbook. Maybe this is a good place to start.) Meanwhile, if anyone has trouble understand certain text, let me know and I will try to re-word to your satisfaction. This correspondence may provide a basis for updating the documentation. Just trying to help :-) Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of CARTER Anthony Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 2:14 AM To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) IMHO (In My Humble Opinion), if anyone has any gripes with the language in the documentation for freebsd, instead of complaining to FreeBSD mailing lists, they should get involved with the documentation projects and write an "understandable" version. I don't mind people complaining about things, but instead of just complaining, suggesting changes would be more useful and, I guess, very welcomed. So, next time you find a complicated man page or technical article, find out the answer by asking questions on mailing lists etc., figure out what it means, and then re-write the documentation in a way that you would find useful for others in your situation. Then submit it for approval and basta, everyone profits. In the end, with everyone doing just a little, the documentation could be vastly improved for non-technical people. Anthony Carter On Sunday 30 March 2003 05:35, Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek wrote: > Maybe some Norwegian members of the list can speak English on a high level, > maybe even higher than "native" english-speakers, but some Dutchmen on the > list (at least one of them, namely me) cannot follow everything of this > story. Allthough I did get the major part of it, I wonder why such > complicated language is needed. I understand the humor behind it, but I'd > like to say to all of you: SPEAK NORMAL ENGLISH. (no offense :) ) > > Sometimes I even find the manuals too complicated. Open-Source-fighters > should write all their text (especially their manuals) in understandable > english for the "other part" of the community. That's what came up in my > mind while reading this. > > Speaking of the debate here held: I must agree with mr. Clark. Allthough I > like the style and attitude of mr. Manavado (sounds like an "ancient" > behaviour in the Metal-scene) it is clear that no-one should expect from a > non-native english-speaking newbie in the BSD-community to talk > "Queens-english". At least I am refusing to do so. > > On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Lal Manavado wrote: > > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:37:58 -0800 > > To: > > From: "Lal Manavado" > > Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) > > > > As for English not being the first language of many a user, it only > > hightens > > the cogency of our point; namely, a sound knowledge of English would be > > of > > considerable help. There is no logical reason why someone whose second or > > third tongue is English cannot surpass the so-called native speakers, > > some > > of whom merely emit sounds, which they fondly believe to be English. > > > > Hail to thee! > > > > L. M. > > May the blessings of our Emperor be with thee to the end of all ages! > > Fi-Ji > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" _______________________________________________ freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 1 23:58:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4364337B401 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 23:58:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpzilla5.xs4all.nl (smtpzilla5.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.141]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A17143FB1 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2003 23:58:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ranjit@rugragging.com) Received: from [192.168.1.111] (pornstar.xs4all.nl [213.84.90.12]) by smtpzilla5.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h327w9jD035108 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:58:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Ranjit To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1049270261.6474.9.camel@drommen.internal.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 Date: 02 Apr 2003 09:57:41 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Sony VAIO w/ FBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 07:58:12 -0000 r4nj1t On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 20:07, Eric J.Feldhusen wrote: > Just curious, has anyone tried a NV170? With any of the 4.x or 5.0? > > Eric Feldhusen > > On Monday, March 31, 2003, at 12:56 PM, Pierrick Brossin wrote: > > > Rodney Salomon wrote: > >> Anybody ever install FBSD on a VAIO? Any issues with > >> the PCMCIA card? Im trying to install on a F-350. > > > > I got a SONY Vaio F-707 (PIII 600 Mhz) no problem! Hi Eric, I'm trying to install 5.0 on a NV105, not sure if that's similar to the NV170. It's not going so well at the moment, OS is installed and boots. But my custom kernel won't bring up the fxp interface even though it works with the Generic config and I can't get the touchpad to work at all ATM. I saw somewhere that it should work in current. Oh, and I get a whole bunch of ACPI errors. For some reason I had to install from CD because with floppies it just dies with a fatal trap 9, That's both the 4.8 and the 5.0 floppies, also had no luck with the 4.7 CD. L8r r4nj1t From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 07:46:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8349237B401 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:46:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from web20302.mail.yahoo.com (web20302.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D49F43FA3 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:46:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rstunna1@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.219.209.68] by web20302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 07:46:58 PST Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:46:58 -0800 (PST) From: Rodney Salomon To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.Org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 15:46:58 -0000 Which web browser do you guys think is the best for FreeBSD? I use Netscape... but I hate going to sites where I dont have the plug-ins for certain applications. Maybe theres a work-around for this... that I havent figured out yet. Or, maybe theres a better web browser out there. What do you guys think? TIA! ===== Look at all the pretty C shells! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 07:53:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 393D737B401 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:53:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from nyogtha.unknownkadath.net (nyogtha.unknownkadath.net [209.153.153.179]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E18E43FB1 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:53:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asenchi@asenchi.com) Received: from paleb.attbi.com (dedport-132-155.idealapps.com [64.118.132.155] (may be forged))h32G9BPQ086809; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:09:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:54:12 -0500 From: Asenchi To: Rodney Salomon Message-Id: <20030402105412.2cd06164.asenchi@asenchi.com> In-Reply-To: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.7) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 15:53:38 -0000 Hello, Have a look at Phoenix (http://www.mozilla.org/projects/phoenix/), it runs pretty good and has a lot of features. You will find that you will need to get plugins for any browser you try. Galeon is another good one. Curt Micol On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:46:58 -0800 (PST) Rodney Salomon wrote: > Which web browser do you guys think is the best for > FreeBSD? > > I use Netscape... but I hate going to sites where I > dont have the plug-ins for certain applications. > Maybe theres a work-around for this... that I havent > figured out yet. Or, maybe theres a better web > browser out there. What do you guys think? > > > TIA! > > ===== > Look at all the pretty C shells! > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more > http://tax.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 08:14:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20D5037B401 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:14:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub5.isdnet.net (mailhub5.isdnet.net [195.154.209.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B40C43FA3 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:14:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anselme@netcourrier.com) Received: from [192.168.1.113] (ppp1263-cwdsl.fr.cw.net [62.210.116.240]) by mailhub5.isdnet.net (8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32179 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:14:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Anselme To: FreeBSD-Newbies In-Reply-To: <20030402105412.2cd06164.asenchi@asenchi.com> References: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> <20030402105412.2cd06164.asenchi@asenchi.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1049299977.340.25.camel@Toto.dippgw.homedns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 Date: 02 Apr 2003 18:12:57 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 16:14:44 -0000 On Wed, 2003-04-02 at 17:54, Asenchi wrote: > Hello, > > Have a look at Phoenix (http://www.mozilla.org/projects/phoenix/), it runs pretty good and has a lot of features. You will find that you will need to get plugins for any browser you try. > yes, but the port is written as broken ... I love Mozilla but even with /usr/port/www/flashplugin-mozilla I have big problems to read flash :(( (I think it depends on the flash version ...). I also tryed Opera, cool, fast but with advertissment ! :( If someone get a better idea, I'd love that ... -- Anselme From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 09:07:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 732AF37B401 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:07:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from web20307.mail.yahoo.com (web20307.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E08EB43FB1 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:06:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rstunna1@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030402170659.31542.qmail@web20307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.20.58.68] by web20307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:06:59 PST Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:06:59 -0800 (PST) From: Rodney Salomon To: Asenchi In-Reply-To: <20030402105412.2cd06164.asenchi@asenchi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 17:07:00 -0000 I tried Mozilla... for about a week, lol. It was cool. I think im going to just have to try out each one and see which one I like best. Thanks guys! Rodney --- Asenchi wrote: > Hello, > > Have a look at Phoenix > (http://www.mozilla.org/projects/phoenix/), it runs > pretty good and has a lot of features. You will > find that you will need to get plugins for any > browser you try. > > Galeon is another good one. > > Curt Micol > > On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:46:58 -0800 (PST) > Rodney Salomon wrote: > > > Which web browser do you guys think is the best > for > > FreeBSD? > > > > I use Netscape... but I hate going to sites where > I > > dont have the plug-ins for certain applications. > > Maybe theres a work-around for this... that I > havent > > figured out yet. Or, maybe theres a better web > > browser out there. What do you guys think? > > > > > > TIA! > > > > ===== > > Look at all the pretty C shells! > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, > forms, and more > > http://tax.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > ===== Look at all the pretty C shells! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 10:37:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E31837B401 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:37:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (ac17859.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2D343F93 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:37:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HCQ0036ZBQ1CL@thor.acuson.com> for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 10:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 10:28:03 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-117.acuson.com ([157.226.46.117]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id GNSXGDF4; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 10:29:35 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 10:37:13 -0800 From: Johnson David In-reply-to: <1049299977.340.25.camel@Toto.dippgw.homedns.org> To: Anselme , FreeBSD-Newbies Message-id: <200304021037.13970.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> <20030402105412.2cd06164.asenchi@asenchi.com> <1049299977.340.25.camel@Toto.dippgw.homedns.org> Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 18:37:38 -0000 On Wednesday 02 April 2003 08:12 am, Anselme wrote: > yes, but the port is written as broken ... I love Mozilla but even > with /usr/port/www/flashplugin-mozilla I have big problems to read > flash :(( (I think it depends on the flash version ...). Flash is pretty much broken all around on FreeBSD. The reason is that the Macromedia flash plugin is only for Linux. Therefore you can't run a native FreeBSD browser and get decent flash, you need to run a Linux port of a browser using the Linux plugin. This is NOT the fault of FreeBSD, it is the fault of Macromedia, who continues to promote proprietary software as a web standard. Shame on them! David From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 10:51:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 648E237B401 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:51:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from issv0171.isis.de (issv0171.isis.de [195.158.131.223]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3277543F93 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:51:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from charlie@begeistert.org) Received: (qmail 26212 invoked by uid 1010); 2 Apr 2003 18:51:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wonderland.1049306324.fake) ([213.128.126.156]) (envelope-sender ) by mail.isis.de (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 2 Apr 2003 18:51:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 20:53:04 +0200 From: Charlie Clark In-Reply-To: <200304021037.13970.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Message-Id: <20030402205304.11296.2@wonderland.1049306324.fake> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> <20030402105412.2cd06164.asenchi@asenchi.com> <1049299977.340.25.camel@Toto.dippgw.homedns.org> <200304021037.13970.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> To: Johnson David User-Agent: Beam devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline cc: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 18:51:13 -0000 On 2003-04-02 at 20:37:13 [+0200], Johnson David wrote: > Flash is pretty much broken all around on FreeBSD. The reason is that the > Macromedia flash plugin is only for Linux. Therefore you can't run a > native FreeBSD browser and get decent flash, you need to run a Linux port > of a browser using the Linux plugin. so the Linux plug-in will run on BSD if Linux compatability is enabled? How dependent is this on XFree86 and any window manager on top of this: I guess the runtime is quite easy to encapsulate and the rest should be calls to XFree86 / KDE, aren't they? > This is NOT the fault of FreeBSD, it is the fault of Macromedia, who > continues to promote proprietary software as a web standard. Shame on > them! Hold your horses: Flash was developed at a time when there was no alternative for that kind of content (AWT / Swing was and still is IMHO a joke and also just as proprietary) and Flash has its uses just like PDF from Adobe does. While it would be nice for Macromedia to maintain a BSD-Flash player I can understand why they don't. On BeOS a third party, the General Coffee Company developed and released their own player so this should be possible on BSD. Of course, Macromedia's recent attempt to relaunch a complete Flash -ased website backfired and that's the best thing that could happen to them: they've gone back to mixing Flash with HTML. Charlie From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 11:24:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5783337B401 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:24:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (thor.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 880B243F93 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:24:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HCQ004AYDW4VG@thor.acuson.com> for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 11:24:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 11:14:54 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-117.acuson.com ([157.226.46.117]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id GNSXG1BR; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 11:16:29 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 11:24:07 -0800 From: Johnson David In-reply-to: <20030402205304.11296.2@wonderland.1049306324.fake> To: Charlie Clark Message-id: <200304021124.07465.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> <200304021037.13970.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <20030402205304.11296.2@wonderland.1049306324.fake> cc: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:24:45 -0000 On Wednesday 02 April 2003 10:53 am, Charlie Clark wrote: > so the Linux plug-in will run on BSD if Linux compatability is > enabled? How dependent is this on XFree86 and any window manager on > top of this: I guess the runtime is quite easy to encapsulate and the > rest should be calls to XFree86 / KDE, aren't they? You need Linux compatibility enabled. But because of the way plugins work, you need both the linux plugin AND a linux browser. But you don't need linux X or a linux window manager. > Hold your horses: Flash was developed at a time when there was no > alternative for that kind of content (AWT / Swing was and still is > IMHO a joke and also just as proprietary) and Flash has its uses just > like PDF from Adobe does. The difference between Flash and PDF is that PDF is a standard. I do not need any permission from Adobe to create PDF files. I can use Ghostscript instead. I can use Ghostview, KGhostview, xpdf, or a million other applications to view PDF files. But with Flash I am dependent upon Macromedia for both creation and access. I can create a PDF document with the complete knowledge that ALL current and future operating systems will be able to access it. I am not requesting that Macromedia make a FreeBSD plugin of flash. Instead I am requesting that they either make flash a standard by publishing complete specs, or stop pretending that it is a standard. > While it would be nice for Macromedia to > maintain a BSD-Flash player I can understand why they don't. On BeOS > a third party, the General Coffee Company developed and released > their own player so this should be possible on BSD. There is ongoing work to create an open source flash player. But without complete specs on the format, it is very difficult. I strongly suspect that General Coffee Company had to pay Macromedia some money in order to write their BeOS player. David From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 11:27:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A494037B401 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:27:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp018.mail.yahoo.com (smtp018.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E94E243FBF for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:27:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from willybaby12345@yahoo.com) Received: from unknown (HELO user) (willybaby12345@64.58.141.114 with login) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2003 19:27:11 -0000 Message-ID: <024401c310d8$712c39d0$728d3a40@user> From: "William Ashworth" To: References: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> <200304021037.13970.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <20030402205304.11296.2@wonderland.1049306324.fake> <200304021124.07465.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 cc: Johnson David Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: William Ashworth List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:27:14 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 11:27:07 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:27:14 -0000 All, Couldn't you just install linux binary compatability to accomplish this? Thanks, William Ashworth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnson David" To: "Charlie Clark" Cc: "FreeBSD-Newbies" Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 12:24 PM Subject: Re: Web Browsers. > On Wednesday 02 April 2003 10:53 am, Charlie Clark wrote: > > > so the Linux plug-in will run on BSD if Linux compatability is > > enabled? How dependent is this on XFree86 and any window manager on > > top of this: I guess the runtime is quite easy to encapsulate and the > > rest should be calls to XFree86 / KDE, aren't they? > > You need Linux compatibility enabled. But because of the way plugins > work, you need both the linux plugin AND a linux browser. But you don't > need linux X or a linux window manager. > > > Hold your horses: Flash was developed at a time when there was no > > alternative for that kind of content (AWT / Swing was and still is > > IMHO a joke and also just as proprietary) and Flash has its uses just > > like PDF from Adobe does. > > The difference between Flash and PDF is that PDF is a standard. I do not > need any permission from Adobe to create PDF files. I can use > Ghostscript instead. I can use Ghostview, KGhostview, xpdf, or a > million other applications to view PDF files. But with Flash I am > dependent upon Macromedia for both creation and access. I can create a > PDF document with the complete knowledge that ALL current and future > operating systems will be able to access it. > > I am not requesting that Macromedia make a FreeBSD plugin of flash. > Instead I am requesting that they either make flash a standard by > publishing complete specs, or stop pretending that it is a standard. > > > While it would be nice for Macromedia to > > maintain a BSD-Flash player I can understand why they don't. On BeOS > > a third party, the General Coffee Company developed and released > > their own player so this should be possible on BSD. > > There is ongoing work to create an open source flash player. But without > complete specs on the format, it is very difficult. I strongly suspect > that General Coffee Company had to pay Macromedia some money in order > to write their BeOS player. > > David > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 11:38:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0887037B401 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:38:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from issv0170.isis.de (issv0170.isis.de [195.158.131.222]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 013B543FB1 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:38:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from charlie@begeistert.org) Received: (qmail 22428 invoked by uid 1010); 2 Apr 2003 19:38:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wonderland.1049306324.fake) ([213.128.126.156]) (envelope-sender ) by mail.isis.de (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 2 Apr 2003 19:38:24 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 21:40:21 +0200 From: Charlie Clark In-Reply-To: <200304021124.07465.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Message-Id: <20030402214021.11741.10@wonderland.1049306324.fake> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> <200304021037.13970.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <20030402205304.11296.2@wonderland.1049306324.fake> <200304021124.07465.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> To: Johnson David User-Agent: Beam devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline cc: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:38:28 -0000 On 2003-04-02 at 21:24:07 [+0200], you wrote: > The difference between Flash and PDF is that PDF is a standard. I do not > need any permission from Adobe to create PDF files. I can use Ghostscript > instead. I can use Ghostview, KGhostview, xpdf, or a million other > applications to view PDF files. But with Flash I am dependent upon > Macromedia for both creation and access. I can create a PDF document with > the complete knowledge that ALL current and future operating systems will > be able to access it. You can also create Flash files with other programs such as ImageReady or ePicture so it's similar to GIFs where licensing is an issue. PDF's claim to being a standard is a bit dodgy anyway which is why there are so many other libraries for it; as far as I know it's just Postscript with an optimised index. > I am not requesting that Macromedia make a FreeBSD plugin of flash. > Instead I am requesting that they either make flash a standard by > publishing complete specs, or stop pretending that it is a standard. yes, companies do have a habit of introducing something and then saying it's a standard: the current legal battle between Sun and Microsoft about pre-installing is typical of this mentality. Sun's just as lock-in minded as the rest but are playing the good guys by claiming Java is "standard". > There is ongoing work to create an open source flash player. But without > complete specs on the format, it is very difficult. I strongly suspect > that General Coffee Company had to pay Macromedia some money in order to > write their BeOS player. Quite likely, I don't have the details. I don't see much mileage for Macromedia in the future in holding on to the player so I would expect them to release the specs at some point. I suspect they will move towards SVG anyway before they get left behind. But maybe we should cut the thread as I think we're getting off-topic. Charlie From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 11:47:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B203237B401 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:47:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (ac17859.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E146A43FB1 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:47:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HCQ004QWEXQVA@thor.acuson.com> for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 11:46:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 11:37:28 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-117.acuson.com ([157.226.46.117]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id GNSXG1QY; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 11:39:00 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 11:46:38 -0800 From: Johnson David In-reply-to: <024401c310d8$712c39d0$728d3a40@user> To: William Ashworth , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-id: <200304021146.38262.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> <200304021124.07465.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <024401c310d8$712c39d0$728d3a40@user> Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:47:02 -0000 On Friday 02 May 2003 11:27 am, William Ashworth wrote: > All, > > Couldn't you just install linux binary compatability to accomplish > this? You do need that. But you need a Linux browser as well, because of the way plugins work. In my case I am using Konqueror, which would mean I would need a complete Linux KDE, or a duplicate Konqueror just for viewing flash. That's overkill in my opinion, so I don't do it. I used to have a separate Linux Mozilla for that purpose, but I quickly discovered that there's not much content on flash-enabled sites to make it worthwhile. p.s. Since Macromedia does not generate any direct revenue from their flash plugin, and they don't "support" it since no one pays for it, it wouldn't hurt them one bit to Open Source the plugin/player. It might even increase their indirect revenues as demand for their flash creation programs rise. They would certainly gain a lot of community good will. David From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 11:58:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98D5237B401 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:58:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from thong.s2s.msu.ru (thong.s2s.msu.ru [193.232.119.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABAA343FAF for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:58:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from epbox@yandex.ru) Received: from hq.sectorb.msk.ru (petaflop.lcm.msu.ru [193.232.113.220]) by thong.s2s.msu.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8D0460FD for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:58:20 +0400 (MSD) Received: from vlad.local (vlad.local [172.16.8.9]) by hq.sectorb.msk.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4641613255 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:58:20 +0400 (MSD) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" From: Vladik Kozin To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:48:26 +0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200304022348.26565.epbox@yandex.ru> Subject: pkg_add without after-install deleting X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: epbox@yandex.ru List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:58:23 -0000 I'd like all the packages (including dependencies) downloaded by=20 $pkg_add -r foo_pkg command to stay undeleted after being installed. How can this be achieved= ? From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 12:28:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5574A37B401 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:28:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail48.fg.online.no (mail48-s.fg.online.no [148.122.161.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEBF543F93 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:28:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from manavado@frisurf.no) Received: from tocom (ti211310a141-0386.dialup.online.no [130.67.125.134]) by mail48.fg.online.no (8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA22167 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:28:50 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <000a01c2f9a5$7458ec60$867d4382@tocom> From: "Lal Manavado" To: References: <0HCJ00245JHP9E@net.WAU.NL> <200303311113.40126.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:54:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 20:28:58 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: Johnson David To: ; Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 11:13 AM Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) > On Saturday 29 March 2003 07:35 pm, Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek wrote: > > > Sometimes I even find the manuals too complicated. > > Open-Source-fighters should write all their text (especially their > > manuals) in understandable english for the "other part" of the > > community. That's what came up in my mind while reading this. > > If there is jargon in the documentation, it should be removed. But > reducing its verbiage to the lowest common denominator is excessive. > > In the US (and maybe even in other English speaking nations), there has > been a movement to "dumb down" communication so that we do not offend > those who might have failed the second and third grade. We even have > newspapers written to that level. The sarcastic responses you have seen > here are merely visceral reactions to against a perceived goal to dumb > down the FreeBSD documentation to the level of "USA Today". > > David How heartening it is to see someone perceive a point, which one may not have set forth with the greatest possible clarity. David has indeed hit the giant rivet on the head with a sledgehammer! People's ability to grasp complex issues and nuances depends on their mastery of a language. Of course, there are hackademics who hotly debate this point, primarily because they are forced to churn out 'research papers' in order to hold onto their tottering totems at some educational wigwam. Moreover, their understanding of epistemic logic is non-existent. One sincerely hopes FreeBSD documentation will never become a parody of itself through rampant simplification. As Xenophon said so long ago, "high thoughts require high words", or words to that effect. And he was not an academic! May the blessings of Bacchus be upon all those who fight the 'language simplifiers' who are hell bent on turning the herd into a flock of our ancestors from the Neander valley. L. M. _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 12:50:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7913E37B401 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:50:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.lphp.org (APastourelles-107-1-7-122.abo.wanadoo.fr [217.128.208.122]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC1DB43F85 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:50:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ajacoutot@lphp.org) Received: from sta01 (sta01.lphp.org.local [192.168.0.4]) by mx1.lphp.org (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h32KooYO087874 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:50:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ajacoutot@lphp.org) From: Antoine Jacoutot To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:50:50 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> <024401c310d8$712c39d0$728d3a40@user> <200304021146.38262.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> In-Reply-To: <200304021146.38262.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200304022250.50829.ajacoutot@lphp.org> Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 20:50:53 -0000 On Wednesday 02 April 2003 21:46, Johnson David wrote: > On Friday 02 May 2003 11:27 am, William Ashworth wrote: > > All, > > > > Couldn't you just install linux binary compatability to accomplish > > this? All you have to do besides enable linux compatibility is install linux-flashplugin and flashpluginwrapper, then you won't need the linux version of mozilla, plugin will work in regular mozilla browser. Antoine From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 12:58:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F1537B408 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:58:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from deimos.frii.net (deimos.frii.com [216.17.128.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED36743F75 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:58:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tpconnolly@frii.com) Received: from tconnolly (g8denver.org [207.109.48.8] (may be forged)) by deimos.frii.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h32KwN6Q033220 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 13:58:23 -0700 (MST) From: "Thomas Connolly" To: Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 13:58:21 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c2f95a$98f6d000$5608a8c0@ceesi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <000a01c2f9a5$7458ec60$867d4382@tocom> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Subject: RE: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 20:58:25 -0000 Enough already! Thomas P. Connolly Senior Development Engineer Colorado Engineering Experiment Station Inc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Lal Manavado Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 10:54 PM To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) ----- Original Message ----- From: Johnson David To: ; Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 11:13 AM Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) > On Saturday 29 March 2003 07:35 pm, Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek wrote: > > > Sometimes I even find the manuals too complicated. > > Open-Source-fighters should write all their text (especially their > > manuals) in understandable english for the "other part" of the > > community. That's what came up in my mind while reading this. > > If there is jargon in the documentation, it should be removed. But > reducing its verbiage to the lowest common denominator is excessive. > > In the US (and maybe even in other English speaking nations), there = has > been a movement to "dumb down" communication so that we do not offend > those who might have failed the second and third grade. We even have > newspapers written to that level. The sarcastic responses you have = seen > here are merely visceral reactions to against a perceived goal to dumb > down the FreeBSD documentation to the level of "USA Today". > > David How heartening it is to see someone perceive a point, which one may not = have set forth with the greatest possible clarity. David has indeed hit the giant rivet on the head with a sledgehammer! People's ability to grasp complex issues and nuances depends on their mastery of a language. Of course, there are hackademics who hotly = debate this point, primarily because they are forced to churn out 'research = papers' in order to hold onto their tottering totems at some educational wigwam. Moreover, their understanding of epistemic logic is non-existent. One sincerely hopes FreeBSD documentation will never become a parody of itself through rampant simplification. As Xenophon said so long ago, "high thoughts require high words", or = words to that effect. And he was not an academic! May the blessings of Bacchus be upon all those who fight the 'language simplifiers' who are hell bent on turning the herd into a flock of our ancestors from the Neander valley. L. M. _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _______________________________________________ freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 13:28:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74D6E37B401 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 13:28:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (ac17859.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A566D43F75 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 13:28:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HCQ004Z7JM2VD@thor.acuson.com> for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 13:27:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 13:18:28 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-117.acuson.com ([157.226.46.117]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id GNSXGGQD; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 13:20:03 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 13:27:40 -0800 From: Johnson David In-reply-to: <200304022250.50829.ajacoutot@lphp.org> To: Antoine Jacoutot , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-id: <200304021327.41176.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> <200304021146.38262.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <200304022250.50829.ajacoutot@lphp.org> Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 21:28:02 -0000 On Wednesday 02 April 2003 12:50 pm, Antoine Jacoutot wrote: > All you have to do besides enable linux compatibility is install > linux-flashplugin and flashpluginwrapper, then you won't need the > linux version of mozilla, plugin will work in regular mozilla > browser. Does this actually work without a Linux browser? It didn't used to. Let me check right now, since I have a native Mozilla... ...hmmm, directions are bit more complicated than all that... ... But it does work! My apologies for trying to impart outdated information. David p.s. But it doesn't work with Konqueror, that I can see. Anyone getting this to work with Konq, or is it Mozilla specific? From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 2 19:46:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3CFA37B401 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:46:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from front2.chartermi.net (front2.chartermi.net [24.213.60.124]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CB643F85 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:46:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from efeldhusen@chartermi.net) Received: from [24.236.181.101] (HELO [192.168.0.100]) by front2.chartermi.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9a) with ESMTP id 134536374 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 22:46:30 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: efeldhusen@pop.chartermi.net Message-Id: Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:46:28 -0500 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org From: "Eric J. Feldhusen" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: Re: Song VAIO w/ FBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 03:46:32 -0000 >On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 20:07, Eric J.Feldhusen wrote: > > Just curious, has anyone tried a NV170? With any of the 4.x or 5.0? > >I'm trying to install 5.0 on a NV105, not sure if that's similar to the >NV170. > >It's not going so well at the moment, OS is installed and boots. But my >custom kernel won't bring up the fxp interface even though it works with >the Generic config and I can't get the touchpad to work at all ATM. I >saw somewhere that it should work in current. Oh, and I get a whole >bunch of ACPI errors. > >For some reason I had to install from CD because with floppies it just >dies with a fatal trap 9, That's both the 4.8 and the 5.0 floppies, also >had no luck with the 4.7 CD. Sounds like my experience with freebsd/redhat/mandrake on my nv170. So far, the only operating system I can get running is WinXP. But I'm still trying with freebsd and if I can't get that to work, I'll try the latest redhat/mandrake/gentoo releases. From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 3 01:03:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CBA837B401 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:03:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub10.isdnet.net (mailhub10.isdnet.net [195.154.209.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F070D43F85 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:03:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anselme@netcourrier.com) Received: from [192.168.1.113] (ppp1619-cwdsl.fr.cw.net [62.210.118.88]) by mailhub10.isdnet.net (8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA88730; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:03:40 +0200 (CEST) From: Anselme To: Antoine Jacoutot , FreeBSD-Newbies In-Reply-To: <200304022250.50829.ajacoutot@lphp.org> References: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> <024401c310d8$712c39d0$728d3a40@user> <200304021146.38262.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <200304022250.50829.ajacoutot@lphp.org> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1049360518.73525.8.camel@Toto.dippgw.homedns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 Date: 03 Apr 2003 11:01:59 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:03:48 -0000 On Wed, 2003-04-02 at 22:50, Antoine Jacoutot wrote: > All you have to do besides enable linux compatibility is install > linux-flashplugin and flashpluginwrapper, then you won't need the linux > version of mozilla, plugin will work in regular mozilla browser. > Thanks a lot ! I had installed the linux-flashplugin but *not* the flashpluginwrapper ... now I've done it and it works well ! My friends who are graphists won't make joke about me anymore because i can't read flash :) > Antoine > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Anselme From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 3 01:07:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8893137B401 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:07:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cordis.lu (mail.cordis.lu [212.190.217.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E627A43F93 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:07:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from a.carter@cordis.lu) Received: from mailsvr.intrasoft.lu (mail.intrasoft.lu [212.190.217.251]) by mail.cordis.lu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h339AWqE002440 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:10:32 +0200 Received: by mail.intrasoft.lu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:04:35 +0200 Received: from intra241.intrasoft.lu (212.190.217.170 [212.190.217.170]) by mailsvr.intrasoft.lu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2656.59) id HXZK86AM; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:04:26 +0200 From: CARTER Anthony To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Organization: Intrasoft Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:07:13 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> <200304022250.50829.ajacoutot@lphp.org> <1049360518.73525.8.camel@Toto.dippgw.homedns.org> In-Reply-To: <1049360518.73525.8.camel@Toto.dippgw.homedns.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200304031107.13993.a.carter@intrasoft.lu> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-126.1 required=4.2 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT,USER_IN_WHITELIST version=2.50 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:07:11 -0000 So how do you get flash working in konqueror? Anthony On Thursday 03 April 2003 11:01, Anselme wrote: > On Wed, 2003-04-02 at 22:50, Antoine Jacoutot wrote: > > All you have to do besides enable linux compatibility is install > > linux-flashplugin and flashpluginwrapper, then you won't need the linux > > version of mozilla, plugin will work in regular mozilla browser. > > Thanks a lot ! I had installed the linux-flashplugin but *not* the > flashpluginwrapper ... now I've done it and it works well ! My friends > who are graphists won't make joke about me anymore because i can't read > flash :) > > > Antoine > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 3 01:15:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58B537B401 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:15:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.lphp.org (APastourelles-107-1-11-196.abo.wanadoo.fr [217.128.154.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFAA943F3F for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:15:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ajacoutot@lphp.org) Received: from srv01.lphp.org.local (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.lphp.org (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h339FgYO091490; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:15:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ajacoutot@lphp.org) Received: (from www@localhost) by srv01.lphp.org.local (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h339FfwN091489; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:15:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: srv01.lphp.org.local: www set sender to ajacoutot@lphp.org using -f Received: from 192.168.0.4 ( [192.168.0.4]) as user ajacoutot@localhost by webmail.lphp.org with HTTP; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:15:41 +0200 Message-ID: <1049361341.3e8bfbbd4d81e@webmail.lphp.org> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:15:41 +0200 From: Antoine Jacoutot To: CARTER Anthony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 / FreeBSD-4.7 cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:15:47 -0000 Selon CARTER Anthony : > So how do you get flash working in konqueror? Arf... I think this is totally impossible... at least I never succeeded. Antoine From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 3 01:20:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF9E337B401 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub10.isdnet.net (mailhub10.isdnet.net [195.154.209.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA3E43FBD for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:20:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anselme@netcourrier.com) Received: from [192.168.1.113] (ppp1619-cwdsl.fr.cw.net [62.210.118.88]) by mailhub10.isdnet.net (8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA99166; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:20:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Anselme To: CARTER Anthony , FreeBSD-Newbies In-Reply-To: <200304031107.13993.a.carter@intrasoft.lu> References: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> <200304022250.50829.ajacoutot@lphp.org> <1049360518.73525.8.camel@Toto.dippgw.homedns.org> <200304031107.13993.a.carter@intrasoft.lu> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1049361548.73525.18.camel@Toto.dippgw.homedns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 Date: 03 Apr 2003 11:19:08 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:20:55 -0000 On Thu, 2003-04-03 at 11:07, CARTER Anthony wrote: > So how do you get flash working in konqueror? > I didnot try in Konqueror ... I said it works fine ... with regular Mozilla browser > Anthony > > On Thursday 03 April 2003 11:01, Anselme wrote: > > On Wed, 2003-04-02 at 22:50, Antoine Jacoutot wrote: > > > All you have to do besides enable linux compatibility is install > > > linux-flashplugin and flashpluginwrapper, then you won't need the linux > > > version of mozilla, plugin will work in regular mozilla browser. > > > > Thanks a lot ! I had installed the linux-flashplugin but *not* the > > flashpluginwrapper ... now I've done it and it works well ! My friends > > who are graphists won't make joke about me anymore because i can't read > > flash :) > > > > > Antoine > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > > "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Anselme From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 3 02:09:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7704B37B401 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 02:09:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FA5E43F85 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 02:08:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Received: from [212.227.126.155] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1911eP-0002e9-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 12:08:53 +0200 Received: from [80.133.98.200] (helo=moritz.alleswirdgruener) (TLSv1:EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1911eP-0005K3-00; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 12:08:53 +0200 Received: from moritz.alleswirdgruener (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h33A4JvE000337; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:04:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Received: from localhost (uzs106@localhost)h33A48iY000334; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:04:13 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: moritz.alleswirdgruener: uzs106 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:04:08 +0200 (CEST) From: Heiko Recktenwald X-Sender: uzs106@localhost To: Johnson David In-Reply-To: <200304021037.13970.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 10:09:00 -0000 David, On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, Johnson David wrote: > Flash is pretty much broken all around on FreeBSD. The reason is that It works here with the linux-netscape without problem, dont know if it is flash 5 or 6, but we get only one half of the picture, since "flash" is "flash" and "shockwave", the things that you can do with director, and we cant see this. H. From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 3 06:31:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5AE337B401 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 06:31:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from web20303.mail.yahoo.com (web20303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6C86343FBD for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 06:31:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rstunna1@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030403143130.2497.qmail@web20303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.128.134.68] by web20303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 06:31:30 PST Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 06:31:30 -0800 (PST) From: Rodney Salomon To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.Org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: CVSup? X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:31:31 -0000 Do you guys use CVSup, or one of the various ways of synchronizing your source? What are the benefits of this? TIA, Rodney ===== Look at all the pretty C shells! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 3 09:49:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F2637B401 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:49:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp014.mail.yahoo.com (smtp014.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.58]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B99C443F3F for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:49:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from willybaby12345@yahoo.com) Received: from unknown (HELO user) (willybaby12345@64.58.141.114 with login) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Apr 2003 17:49:52 -0000 Message-ID: <016401c31194$03a25c70$728d3a40@user> From: "William Ashworth" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Proper way to configure NIC in full duplex X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: William Ashworth List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 17:49:55 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 09:49:50 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 17:49:55 -0000 Hello, I'm using an r10 nic and have all the information already configured in rc.conf, however, transfer speeds are unusually slow (i.e., 55-60kbps when it SHOULD be somewhere near 1.00mbps+) Someone told me that I might not be running the interface in full duplex. How can I determine this? How can I fix it if I am not currently running in full duplex? Any assistance is appreciated and below is the output of my interface information: www# ifconfig rl0 rl0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 216.194.67.6 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 216.194.67.255 inet6 fe80::248:54ff:fe3d:350%rl0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1 inet 66.51.100.209 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.210 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.211 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.212 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.213 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.214 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.215 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.216 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.217 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.218 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.219 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.220 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.221 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.222 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 ether 00:48:54:3d:03:50 media: Ethernet autoselect (none) status: active Thanks, William Ashworth will@pchammer.net From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 3 11:13:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF3F37B405 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:13:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from joloxbox.joshualokken.com (12-225-249-250.client.attbi.com [12.225.249.250]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 773EF43FBF for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:13:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joshualokken@attbi.com) Received: from joloxbox.joshualokken.com (localhost.joshualokken.com [127.0.0.1])h33JDxdn004524; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:14:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joshualokken@attbi.com) Received: (from jolok@localhost) by joloxbox.joshualokken.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h33JDvx6004523; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:13:57 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: joloxbox.joshualokken.com: jolok set sender to joshualokken@attbi.com using -f Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:13:57 -0800 From: Joshua Lokken To: Rodney Salomon Message-ID: <20030403191357.GA4433@joloxbox.joshualokken.com> References: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030402154658.11242.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: little to none X-OS: FreeBSD joloxbox.joshualokken.com 4.8-RC i386 cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Web Browsers. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 19:13:28 -0000 * Rodney Salomon (rstunna1@yahoo.com) wrote: ==> Which web browser do you guys think is the best for ==> FreeBSD? ==> ==> I use Netscape... but I hate going to sites where I ==> dont have the plug-ins for certain applications. ==> Maybe theres a work-around for this... that I havent ==> figured out yet. Or, maybe theres a better web ==> browser out there. What do you guys think? ==> ==> ==> TIA! A buddy of mine really likes mozilla-devel with plugger. /usr/ports/www/plugger -- Joshua From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 3 11:45:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BBE437B408 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:45:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp018.mail.yahoo.com (smtp018.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 766E643FCB for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:45:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from willybaby12345@yahoo.com) Received: from unknown (HELO user) (willybaby12345@64.58.141.114 with login) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Apr 2003 19:45:20 -0000 Message-ID: <0b9001c311a4$24c3b420$728d3a40@user> From: "William Ashworth" To: References: <016401c31194$03a25c70$728d3a40@user> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: Proper way to configure NIC in full duplex X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: William Ashworth List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 19:45:22 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 11:45:11 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 19:45:22 -0000 Okay, I think that I might be on the right track, but how do I apply these changes that I noticed on a post to my rc.conf file properly?? (root@nu)~># ifconfig xl0 xl0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 192.168.0.1 netmask 0xffffffe0 broadcast 192.168.0.31 ether 00:70:18:d4:a4:ac media: 10baseT/UTP (10baseT/UTP ) supported media: 10base5/AUI 10baseT/UTP 10baseT/UTP 10baseT/UTP Thanks, Will Ashworth ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Ashworth" To: Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 9:49 AM Subject: Proper way to configure NIC in full duplex > Hello, > > I'm using an r10 nic and have all the information already configured in > rc.conf, however, transfer speeds are unusually slow (i.e., 55-60kbps when > it SHOULD be somewhere near 1.00mbps+) > > Someone told me that I might not be running the interface in full duplex. > How can I determine this? How can I fix it if I am not currently running in > full duplex? > > Any assistance is appreciated and below is the output of my interface > information: > > www# ifconfig rl0 > rl0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 > inet 216.194.67.6 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 216.194.67.255 > inet6 fe80::248:54ff:fe3d:350%rl0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1 > inet 66.51.100.209 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.210 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.211 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.212 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.213 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.214 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.215 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.216 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.217 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.218 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.219 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.220 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.221 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.222 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > ether 00:48:54:3d:03:50 > media: Ethernet autoselect (none) > status: active > > Thanks, > > William Ashworth > will@pchammer.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 3 12:42:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B847D37B401 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (thor.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0514F43F3F for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:42:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HCS0056VC5K57@thor.acuson.com> for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.Org; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 12:41:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 12:32:33 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-117.acuson.com ([157.226.46.117]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id GNSXG6HK; Thu, 03 Apr 2003 12:34:06 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 12:41:45 -0800 From: Johnson David In-reply-to: <20030403143130.2497.qmail@web20303.mail.yahoo.com> To: Rodney Salomon , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.Org Message-id: <200304031241.45577.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030403143130.2497.qmail@web20303.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: CVSup? X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 20:42:09 -0000 On Thursday 03 April 2003 06:31 am, Rodney Salomon wrote: > Do you guys use CVSup, or one of the various ways of > synchronizing your source? What are the benefits of > this? There are two "sources" to synchronize. The first is the OS, which I wouldn't recommend unless you're tracking -stable. The second is the ports tree, and it is very useful. If you track -stable, then you will be getting timely bug and security fixes. If you stick with -release, then cvsup isn't needed except to sync the ports tree (which is still a good thing). David From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 3 15:52:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDC7837B401 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 15:52:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow053o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.96]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1201943FA3 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2003 15:52:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfm@blueyonder.co.uk) Received: from lexx ([62.31.198.203]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:54:18 +0100 From: John Murphy To: newbies@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 00:51:59 +0100 Organization: poor Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Navigating cvsweb? X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jfm@blueyonder.co.uk List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 23:52:04 -0000 I never seem to be able to find what I'm looking for when browsing http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ Earlier, Dancho Penev suggested (in -questions): # sysctl net.link.ether.inet.log_arp_movements=3D0 which is going to reduce kernel log messages significantly where ISP =3D blueyonder.co.uk Stunning to have that amount of (virtual) control ;) man 8 sysctl mentions . So how would I be able to see when that sysctl became available, for example? MTAA John. From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 00:07:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EE4737B401 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:07:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub7.isdnet.net (mailhub7.isdnet.net [195.154.209.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA8343FB1 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:07:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anselme@netcourrier.com) Received: from [192.168.1.113] (ppp1548-cwdsl.fr.cw.net [62.210.118.17]) by mailhub7.isdnet.net (8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA34098 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:07:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Anselme To: FreeBSD-Newbies Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1049443564.277.12.camel@Toto.dippgw.homedns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 Date: 04 Apr 2003 10:06:05 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: portupgrade when running an application ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 08:07:47 -0000 Hi everyboddy, I wonder if there is any probleme to upgrade an application when this one is running ? For instance, by now I am using XFree86 and I made a : $ portupgrade -Rr XFree86 By the way, after the portpgrade, when does the new XFree86_4_03 will be take in charge by my computer ? the next time I reboot ? Thanks a lot -- Anselme From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 03:58:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21ED437B401 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 03:58:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from spock.dilkie.com (spock.dilkie.com [206.51.1.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBAF943FA3 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 03:58:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lee@dilkie.com) Received: from borg (borg.dilkie.com [206.51.1.193]) (authenticated bits=0) by spock.dilkie.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34BwiHv018208; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:58:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lee@dilkie.com) From: "Lee Dilkie" To: "William Ashworth" , Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:58:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <016401c31194$03a25c70$728d3a40@user> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Subject: RE: Proper way to configure NIC in full duplex X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:58:47 -0000 I believe that all your alias ip addresses should have a netmask of 0xffffffff. Only your first address is supposed to have the "true" netmask. This is what the manual claims and what I've done. Also, I have a realtek card with the rl driver and it's slow for me as well but my research on the net seems to say this is just a cheap and slow card. if you 'man ifconfig' and 'man rl' you can see the options you are allowed to force. -lee -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of William Ashworth Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 12:50 PM To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Proper way to configure NIC in full duplex Hello, I'm using an r10 nic and have all the information already configured in rc.conf, however, transfer speeds are unusually slow (i.e., 55-60kbps when it SHOULD be somewhere near 1.00mbps+) Someone told me that I might not be running the interface in full duplex. How can I determine this? How can I fix it if I am not currently running in full duplex? Any assistance is appreciated and below is the output of my interface information: www# ifconfig rl0 rl0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 216.194.67.6 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 216.194.67.255 inet6 fe80::248:54ff:fe3d:350%rl0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1 inet 66.51.100.209 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.210 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.211 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.212 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.213 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.214 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.215 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.216 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.217 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.218 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.219 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.220 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.221 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 inet 66.51.100.222 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 ether 00:48:54:3d:03:50 media: Ethernet autoselect (none) status: active Thanks, William Ashworth will@pchammer.net _______________________________________________ freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 05:51:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9726037B401 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 05:51:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from spf1.us.outblaze.com (205-158-62-158.outblaze.com [205.158.62.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E048343FAF for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 05:51:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paul@qdice.com) Received: (qmail 2115 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2003 13:51:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (205.158.62.146) by spf1.us.outblaze.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2003 13:51:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 1249 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2003 13:47:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ws4-4.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.105) by 205-158-62-146.outblaze.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2003 13:47:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 15977 invoked by uid 1001); 4 Apr 2003 13:51:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20030404135143.15976.qmail@qdice.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [205.148.5.90] by ws4-4.us4.outblaze.com with http for paul@qdice.com; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 21:51:43 +0800 From: "Paul Simon" To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 21:51:43 +0800 X-Originating-Ip: 205.148.5.90 X-Originating-Server: ws4-4.us4.outblaze.com Subject: Newbie install experience X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 13:51:44 -0000 Hi all I was donated an old Dell Optiplex - PentiumI 64MB 2GB. Since I had RH7.1 on a HP PII box and wanted to try something different like Debian, but the installation wasn't clear enough for me to follow. So, I tried FreeBSD. Installing it on the Dell Optiplex was surprisingly smooth. I installed via ftp over ethernet. It was so smooth that I decided to wipe out the RH7.1 on the HP PII box to install FreeBSD. (At the same time, I added a second harddrive!) Well, the install was not so nice: The ethernet card (Netgear FA310-TX) was not recognized. Consequently, I couldn't install over ethernet like a I did for the above. So, I went down the long road of figuring out that you need better than a limited "Easy CD" on windows in order to burn a bootable ISO image on CD - 5 hour tribulation :). I finally used the demo version of NERO to burn it. Yippee for Nero!! I now have FreeBSD 4.8 on two boxes. However, the Netgear FA310-TX is still not recognized. Could somebody point me in a direction to begin to trouble shoot this? Should I be posting to another list? Thanks, Paul -- _______________________________________________ Pida Ya! su eMail Gratis y en Espaņol http://qdice.com Powered by Outblaze From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 06:24:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 985C237B401 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:24:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from cobalt.4gl.com (cobalt.4gl.com [66.212.110.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0D743F3F for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 06:24:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ttyson@championelevators.com) Received: from 201 (node-97-98.4gl.com [66.212.97.98] (may be forged)) by cobalt.4gl.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA26121; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:36:43 -0600 From: "Terry Tyson" To: "Paul Simon" , Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:24:07 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20030404135143.15976.qmail@qdice.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Subject: RE: Newbie install experience X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:24:39 -0000 Paul, Strange that you are having trouble with "Easy CD" on windows. I have been using Easy CD Creator 3.5c on windows NT with a Plexwriter 8/20 without problems. It will burn an ISO to CD in less than 30 min. However, the windows CD software at home (can't remember what it's called, don't use it anymore) is extremely slow (about 100Mb takes over an hour). Burning under Mandrake9 with the same hardware is very fast. Haven't tried burning with FBSD yet, but I'm sure it will be at least as fast as Mandrake. I think the windows software at home is verifying about a zillion times and can probably be changed but just haven't spent time to find out. Terry > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Paul Simon > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 7:52 AM > To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org > Subject: Newbie install experience > > > Hi all > > I was donated an old Dell Optiplex - PentiumI 64MB 2GB. Since I > had RH7.1 on a HP PII box and wanted to try something different > like Debian, but the installation wasn't clear enough for me to > follow. So, I tried FreeBSD. Installing it on the Dell Optiplex > was surprisingly smooth. I installed via ftp over ethernet. It > was so smooth that I decided to wipe out the RH7.1 on the HP PII > box to install FreeBSD. (At the same time, I added a second > harddrive!) Well, the install was not so nice: > > The ethernet card (Netgear FA310-TX) was not recognized. > Consequently, I couldn't install over ethernet like a I did for > the above. So, I went down the long road of figuring out that you > need better than a limited "Easy CD" on windows in order to burn > a bootable ISO image on CD - 5 hour tribulation :). I finally > used the demo version of NERO to burn it. Yippee for Nero!! > > I now have FreeBSD 4.8 on two boxes. However, the Netgear > FA310-TX is still not recognized. Could somebody point me in a > direction to begin to trouble shoot this? Should I be posting to > another list? > > Thanks, Paul > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Pida Ya! su eMail Gratis y en Espaņol http://qdice.com > > Powered by Outblaze > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 07:18:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C12637B401 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:18:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from thalia.otenet.gr (thalia.otenet.gr [195.170.0.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E570143F75 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:18:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from gothmog.gr (patr530-a200.otenet.gr [212.205.215.200]) by thalia.otenet.gr (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34FI1fe017084; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 18:18:02 +0300 (EEST) Received: from gothmog.gr (gothmog [127.0.0.1]) by gothmog.gr (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h34FHx1s000688; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 18:17:59 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from giorgos@localhost) by gothmog.gr (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h34CrngM022145; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:53:49 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:53:49 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: John Murphy Message-ID: <20030404125349.GC21633@gothmog.gr> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: cc: newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Navigating cvsweb? X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:18:09 -0000 On 2003-04-04 00:51, John Murphy wrote: > I never seem to be able to find what I'm looking for when browsing > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ > > Earlier, Dancho Penev suggested (in -questions): > # sysctl net.link.ether.inet.log_arp_movements=0 > which is going to reduce kernel log messages significantly > where ISP = blueyonder.co.uk > > Stunning to have that amount of (virtual) control ;) > > man 8 sysctl mentions . So how would I be able to > see when that sysctl became available, for example? Look at the annotated version of `src/sys/netinet/if_ether.c' around line 557: : 556 1.74 (alfred 06-Jan-01): static int log_arp_wrong_iface = 1; : 557 1.81 (alfred 03-Sep-01): static int log_arp_movements = 1; : 558 1.74 (alfred 06-Jan-01): Then look at the log of revision 1.81 and the diff of 1.80 -> 1.81. IMHO, It's difficult to track things like this by staring at CVS logs through cvsweb. I usually start with something like: $ cd /usr/src $ grep -rl arp_move . and then look at the annotated versions of the files that match. - Giorgos From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 07:46:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB5437B405 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:46:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A402A43F85 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 07:46:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h34Fj4g01169; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 01:45:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 01:45:04 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Paul Simon Message-ID: <20030405014504.F88507@welearn.com.au> Mail-Followup-To: Sue Blake , Paul Simon , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org References: <20030404135143.15976.qmail@qdice.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20030404135143.15976.qmail@qdice.com>; from paul@qdice.com on Fri, Apr 04, 2003 at 09:51:43PM +0800 cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie install experience X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:46:16 -0000 On Fri, Apr 04, 2003 at 09:51:43PM +0800, Paul Simon wrote: > > I now have FreeBSD 4.8 on two boxes. However, the Netgear FA310-TX is > still not recognized. Could somebody point me in a direction to begin > to trouble shoot this? Should I be posting to another list? Regarding that last question, I hope I can reply helpfully. Because you want help with FreeBSD, you should be posting to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org. Anyone who wants to reply to you should also be replying to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org (not here), as well as sending a cc to you directly. Freebsd-questions is the technical support mailing list, no matter how simple or difficult the question is. Freebsd-newbies (this one) is for all the other chat, moral support, and for finding out about using the FreeBSD mailing lists, i.e., for the other stuff that newbies want to say that is too noisy for freebsd-questions. Therefore you should only need to search in the freebsd-questions list archive to find out if someone had ever asked the same question before. I'm glad you've had such a good experience with FreeBSD so far. I was running it on an old Optiplex and it works well apart from the occasional puzzle with the i810 chip and the ancient XFree86. The mailing list search page on the FreeBSD web site brought up lots of items when I searched for "i810", which solved most problems without having to ask. Recent versions of X handle the i810 well, but you could try researching your current problem in a similar way. When you write to FreeBSD-questions, if you tell them what you've done already (e.g. searched the mailing lists, read the foo man page) you'll get an extra enthusiastic response from the support volunteers. It also helps a lot if you can keep your email line lengths to no more than about 75 characters so that every kind of mail reader can read it easily. We'll be looking forward to hearing about your success, but if you get frustrated you can come back here to let off steam too :-) This is also the only list where people get away with off topic stuff, even the occasional Microsoft problem if it's essential to using FreeBSD. Ahem... I didn't say it's allowed, just that nobody here seems to mind :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 08:34:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C46DA37B401 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp015.mail.yahoo.com (smtp015.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.59]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 714FD43FE5 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 08:34:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from willybaby12345@yahoo.com) Received: from unknown (HELO user) (willybaby12345@64.58.141.114 with login) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2003 16:34:33 -0000 Message-ID: <006a01c31252$a927ec50$728d3a40@user> From: "William Ashworth" To: "Lee Dilkie" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Proper way to configure NIC in full duplex X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: William Ashworth List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 16:34:41 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 08:34:32 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 16:34:41 -0000 Lee, Actually, I'm using Realtek as well....crappy card, but it works. After hours of messing around, I finally figured it out: Edit rc.conf to show " media 10BaseT/UTP" Example: ifconfig_rl0="inet 216.191.67.3 netmask 255.255.255.0 media 10BaseT/UTP" You only want to apply this to the main interface and NOT the aliases (obviously) FYI - I now get speeds both ways of up to 1.5mbps intead of 55-60kbps (this rocks!) Thanks, William Ashworth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Dilkie" To: "William Ashworth" ; Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 4:58 AM Subject: RE: Proper way to configure NIC in full duplex > I believe that all your alias ip addresses should have a netmask of > 0xffffffff. Only your first address is supposed to have the "true" netmask. > This is what the manual claims and what I've done. > > Also, I have a realtek card with the rl driver and it's slow for me as well > but my research on the net seems to say this is just a cheap and slow card. > > if you 'man ifconfig' and 'man rl' you can see the options you are allowed > to force. > > -lee > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of William Ashworth > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 12:50 PM > To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org > Subject: Proper way to configure NIC in full duplex > > > Hello, > > I'm using an r10 nic and have all the information already configured in > rc.conf, however, transfer speeds are unusually slow (i.e., 55-60kbps when > it SHOULD be somewhere near 1.00mbps+) > > Someone told me that I might not be running the interface in full duplex. > How can I determine this? How can I fix it if I am not currently running in > full duplex? > > Any assistance is appreciated and below is the output of my interface > information: > > www# ifconfig rl0 > rl0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 > inet 216.194.67.6 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 216.194.67.255 > inet6 fe80::248:54ff:fe3d:350%rl0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1 > inet 66.51.100.209 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.210 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.211 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.212 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.213 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.214 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.215 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.216 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.217 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.218 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.219 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.220 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.221 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > inet 66.51.100.222 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 66.51.100.223 > ether 00:48:54:3d:03:50 > media: Ethernet autoselect (none) > status: active > > Thanks, > > William Ashworth > will@pchammer.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 10:36:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 354AB37B401 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:36:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (ac17859.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5C443F3F for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:36:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HCU006IG10KV7@thor.acuson.com> for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:36:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:27:08 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-117.acuson.com ([157.226.46.117]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id GNSXH3W1; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:28:41 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:36:21 -0800 From: Johnson David In-reply-to: <1049443564.277.12.camel@Toto.dippgw.homedns.org> To: Anselme , FreeBSD-Newbies Message-id: <200304041036.21678.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <1049443564.277.12.camel@Toto.dippgw.homedns.org> Subject: Re: portupgrade when running an application ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 18:36:47 -0000 On Friday 04 April 2003 12:06 am, Anselme wrote: > Hi everyboddy, > > I wonder if there is any probleme to upgrade an application when this > one is running ? For some programs there may be, but so far I haven't encountered any. In fact, I've been able to upgrade the base OS and all installed ports while surfing the web and other desktop activities, and only needed one reboot. Wow! I don't know if I would recommend it, but it is possible. > $ portupgrade -Rr XFree86 > > By the way, after the portpgrade, when does the new XFree86_4_03 will > be take in charge by my computer ? the next time I reboot ? (answering a somewhat technical question since this is more of a "how does stuff work" rather than a "how do I do this" question) There's actually two halves to X, the server and the client libraries, and they talk to each other through a standard protocol. The old server will keep on running until you restart X. Applications that use the client libraries will use the new version when they are started, but currently running applications will continue to use the old version loaded in memory. Read up the technical pages for XFree86 and the X11 protocol for more information. The best way to ensure that everything is synced up with the new version is just to restart X, typically by logging out of X and starting it up again. But because of the X11 protocol, it isn't really necessary unless you want to utilize some new features in the newly installed version. David From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 10:42:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C80F037B401 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:42:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (thor.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4838243FCB for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:42:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HCU006CZ19MOR@thor.acuson.com> for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:41:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:32:34 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-117.acuson.com ([157.226.46.117]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id GNSXH3ZK; Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:34:04 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:41:44 -0800 From: Johnson David In-reply-to: <20030404135143.15976.qmail@qdice.com> To: Paul Simon , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-id: <200304041041.44230.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030404135143.15976.qmail@qdice.com> Subject: Re: Newbie install experience X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 18:42:12 -0000 On Friday 04 April 2003 05:51 am, Paul Simon wrote: > I now have FreeBSD 4.8 on two boxes. However, the Netgear FA310-TX is > still not recognized. Could somebody point me in a direction to begin > to trouble shoot this? Should I be posting to another list? This is a question that needs to be asked on the freebsd-questions list. But have no fear! I used to have a FA310-TX and it worked fine under FreeBSD. I no longer have it though, so I can't help much other than to say "it just worked" back when I had it. It is definitely supported under FreeBSD 5.0, so ask at freebsd-questions, and send along the relevant portion of your dmesg output with it. David Johnson From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 16:26:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F4D237B411 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:26:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2E53343F3F for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:26:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lars@gmx.at) Received: (qmail 4869 invoked by uid 65534); 5 Apr 2003 00:26:51 -0000 Received: from 97.156.186.195.dial.bluewin.ch (EHLO klang.mine.nu) (195.186.156.97) by mail.gmx.net (mp023-rz3) with SMTP; 05 Apr 2003 02:26:51 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: lars To: Andrew Y Ng , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 02:26:49 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <200304042259.42892.lars@gmx.at> <20030405001324.GA10848@AndrewNg.com> In-Reply-To: <20030405001324.GA10848@AndrewNg.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200304050226.49470.lars@gmx.at> Subject: Re: No sound in KDE3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 00:26:54 -0000 On Saturday 05 April 2003 02:13, Andrew Y Ng wrote: > what did u use to listen to MP3? if you use mpg123=20 mpg123 without artsdsp, what's the syntax? and the link, make sure > u wrap it with `artsdsp`. > > do you get sound without KDE? your kernel has psm compiled in it right? I have 'device pcm' loaded thx, lars. From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 16:29:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65DCD37B401 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:29:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mxzilla3.xs4all.nl (mxzilla3.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.49]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51BF843F3F for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:29:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henkonk@xs4all.nl) Received: from xs1.xs4all.nl (xs1.xs4all.nl [194.109.3.11]) by mxzilla3.xs4all.nl (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h350TjYM066557 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 02:29:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xs1.xs4all.nl (henkonk@localhost.xs4all.nl [127.0.0.1]) by xs1.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h350TiNd090734 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 02:29:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from henkonk@xs1.xs4all.nl) Received: from localhost (Unknown UID 335104@localhost) by xs1.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h350TiAI090731 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 02:29:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from henkonk@xs1.xs4all.nl) X-Authentication-Warning: xs1.xs4all.nl: Unknown UID 335104 owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 02:29:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Henk To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030405022043.S90576-100000@xs1.xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: adding realtec 8139NIC X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 00:29:47 -0000 Hello all, I used FreeBSD 4.7 RELEASE to build a router which is working fine. I'm using 3 Realtec 8139 pci cards and recently added a 4th one. The FreeBSD handbook talks about adding the device with MAKDEV script, but I can not find an entry for any realtec (rl0, rl1 or rl3) card in /dev. How do I add this device? Thankz, Marc From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 16:34:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B911537B40E for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:34:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp018.mail.yahoo.com (smtp018.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3562A43FBD for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:34:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from willybaby12345@yahoo.com) Received: from unknown (HELO user) (willybaby12345@64.58.141.114 with login) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2003 00:34:14 -0000 Message-ID: <011b01c2fb0b$15ab6000$728d3a40@user> From: "William Ashworth" To: "Henk" References: <20030405022043.S90576-100000@xs1.xs4all.nl> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:34:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: adding realtec 8139NIC X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: William Ashworth List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 00:34:16 -0000 It's already supported...just use the /stans/sysinstall command and re-configure the NIC. I am using Realtek as well. Also, to avoid slow speeds, make sure that you're using the media type as: "Ethernet 10baseT/UTP" the line for the interface configuration in /etc/rc.conf should be something like: ifconfig_rl0="inet 296.124.47.8 netmask 255.255.255.0 media 10BaseT/UTP" Thanks, William Ashworth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henk" To: Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 4:29 PM Subject: adding realtec 8139NIC > Hello all, > > I used FreeBSD 4.7 RELEASE to build a router which is working fine. I'm > using 3 Realtec 8139 pci cards and recently added a 4th one. > > The FreeBSD handbook talks about adding the device with MAKDEV script, but > I can not find an entry for any realtec (rl0, rl1 or rl3) card in /dev. > How do I add this device? > > Thankz, Marc > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 17:58:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED8A537B401 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:58:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from andromeda.68k.org (callisto.teisoft.com [12.109.66.145]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37B8643F85 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:58:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ayn@andromeda.68k.org) Received: from andromeda.68k.org (ayn@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h351wN5o012542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Fri, 4 Apr 2003 20:58:23 -0500 Received: (from ayn@localhost) by andromeda.68k.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.3) id h351wNem012540; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 20:58:23 -0500 Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 20:58:23 -0500 From: Andrew Y Ng To: lars Message-ID: <20030405015823.GA12519@AndrewNg.com> References: <200304042259.42892.lars@gmx.at> <20030405001324.GA10848@AndrewNg.com> <200304050226.49470.lars@gmx.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0F1p//8PRICkK4MW" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200304050226.49470.lars@gmx.at> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-GPG-Fingerprint: 46A1 29FF 893A 0381 DC81 1E1E BED8 E882 9BFC 594C X-GPG-Info: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 9BFC594C cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No sound in KDE3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 01:58:25 -0000 --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable `artsdsp mpg123 foo.mp3` /ayn On 0, lars wrote: > On Saturday 05 April 2003 02:13, Andrew Y Ng wrote: > > what did u use to listen to MP3? if you use mpg123=20 > mpg123 without artsdsp, what's the syntax? > and the link, make sure > > u wrap it with `artsdsp`. > > > > do you get sound without KDE? your kernel has psm compiled in it right? > I have 'device pcm' loaded >=20 > thx, > lars. >=20 --=20 andrew y ng http://andrewng.com independent computer consultants http://aynassociates.com --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+jjg/vtjogpv8WUwRArP4AKCSdhoZOEZa3/lolbuakqS2y0IU1wCgxfpk 7v0LWcYt3MaKCDrWOKiVUak= =ugMI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW-- From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 19:10:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F3FA37B401 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:10:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDEB343FBF for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:10:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (sue@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h353AHUp043592 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:10:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from sue@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h353AHqg043591 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:10:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:10:17 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Blake Message-Id: <200304050310.h353AHqg043591@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 03:10:18 -0000 FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/) FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies. FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as more general and advanced questions. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-CHARTERS) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too. Manuals You'll always be expected to show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is available at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 21:07:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C21137B401 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:07:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from spf1.us.outblaze.com (205-158-62-158.outblaze.com [205.158.62.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B497743F85 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:07:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paul@qdice.com) Received: (qmail 21818 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2003 05:06:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (205.158.62.146) by spf1.us.outblaze.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2003 05:06:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 5384 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2003 05:03:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ws4-4.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.105) by 205-158-62-146.outblaze.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2003 05:03:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 20049 invoked by uid 1001); 5 Apr 2003 05:07:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20030405050724.20048.qmail@qdice.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [66.92.109.169] by ws4-4.us4.outblaze.com with http for paul@qdice.com; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 13:07:24 +0800 From: "Paul Simon" To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 13:07:24 +0800 X-Originating-Ip: 66.92.109.169 X-Originating-Server: ws4-4.us4.outblaze.com cc: DavidJohnson@Siemens.com Subject: Re: Newbie install experience X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 05:07:25 -0000 > On Friday 04 April 2003 05:51 am, Paul Simon wrote: > > > I now have FreeBSD 4.8 on two boxes. However, the Netgear FA310-TX is > > still not recognized. Could somebody point me in a direction to begin > > to trouble shoot this? Should I be posting to another list? > > This is a question that needs to be asked on the freebsd-questions list. > But have no fear! I used to have a FA310-TX and it worked fine under > FreeBSD. I no longer have it though, so I can't help much other than to > say "it just worked" back when I had it. It is definitely supported > under FreeBSD 5.0, so ask at freebsd-questions, and send along the > relevant portion of your dmesg output with it. I finally got the network card working. I had to configure the Kernel: device miibus device dc Then I rebooted. It didn't work. I got a diagnostic - couldn't map ports/memory A google search revealed the diagnostic means that plug and play is enabled in the BIOS and should be turned off. So, I turned it off. After some interface configuration, It works! Thanks for everybody's responses!! I joined the freebsd-questions list - Paul -- _______________________________________________ Pida Ya! su eMail Gratis y en Espaņol http://qdice.com Powered by Outblaze From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 22:53:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D592A37B401 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 22:53:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail59.fg.online.no (mail59-s.fg.online.no [148.122.161.59]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46AF643FCB for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 22:53:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from manavado@frisurf.no) Received: from tocom (ti100710a145-0106.dialup.online.no [130.67.136.106]) by mail59.fg.online.no (8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA05450 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:53:25 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <000401c2fb8f$0c151ac0$6a884382@tocom> From: "Lal Manavado" To: References: <0HCJ00245JHP9E@net.WAU.NL><200303311014.21250.a.carter@intrasoft.lu> <000201c2f7e5$0f55d510$b300a8c0@wenk> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:18:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 06:53:34 -0000 We are graciously pleased to note that Mr. Shevlen knows that a thesaurus is a book and not something that sprang at him out of some Jurasic undergrowth. However, we were not certain of the gentleman's identity until our eyes came to rest on the word 'joker', and then everything became pellucidely clear. It was indeed he whom we lost in a marine accident near the US coast some moons ago. Up until now, we knew not of his fate, but we are delighted to see him safe and sound. May we also add that his former position with us still remains vacant, for we have not been able to find an adequate successor for him, as we are yet to find one with a comparable warty visage to take up the job of being the assistant deputy court jester at our abode. Lm. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Shevlen To: CARTER Anthony ; Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 2:25 PM Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) > In my humble opinion this thread has been nothing but noise for about > a week. Some joker (a.k.a. Lal Manavado) has been giving his thesarus > a workout and that's about it. If you have nothing constructive to > say, don't broadcast it. Otherwise I'm with Anthony - join the docs > project and do something about it. Say it don't spray it. > > Let's propose a merciful end to this thread. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "CARTER Anthony" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 12:14 AM > Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) > > > > IMHO (In My Humble Opinion), if anyone has any gripes with the > language in the > > documentation for freebsd, instead of complaining to FreeBSD mailing > lists, > > they should get involved with the documentation projects and write > an > > "understandable" version. I don't mind people complaining about > things, but > > instead of just complaining, suggesting changes would be more useful > and, I > > guess, very welcomed. > > > > So, next time you find a complicated man page or technical article, > find out > > the answer by asking questions on mailing lists etc., figure out > what it > > means, and then re-write the documentation in a way that you would > find > > useful for others in your situation. Then submit it for approval and > basta, > > everyone profits. In the end, with everyone doing just a little, the > > documentation could be vastly improved for non-technical people. > > > > Anthony Carter > > > > > > > > On Sunday 30 March 2003 05:35, Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek wrote: > > > Maybe some Norwegian members of the list can speak English on a > high level, > > > maybe even higher than "native" english-speakers, but some > Dutchmen on the > > > list (at least one of them, namely me) cannot follow everything of > this > > > story. Allthough I did get the major part of it, I wonder why such > > > complicated language is needed. I understand the humor behind it, > but I'd > > > like to say to all of you: SPEAK NORMAL ENGLISH. (no offense :) ) > > > > > > Sometimes I even find the manuals too complicated. > Open-Source-fighters > > > should write all their text (especially their manuals) in > understandable > > > english for the "other part" of the community. That's what came up > in my > > > mind while reading this. > > > > > > Speaking of the debate here held: I must agree with mr. Clark. > Allthough I > > > like the style and attitude of mr. Manavado (sounds like an > "ancient" > > > behaviour in the Metal-scene) it is clear that no-one should > expect from a > > > non-native english-speaking newbie in the BSD-community to talk > > > "Queens-english". At least I am refusing to do so. > > > > > > On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Lal Manavado wrote: > > > > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:37:58 -0800 > > > > To: > > > > From: "Lal Manavado" > > > > Subject: Re: OT Humble Pie (was hardw words) > > > > > > > > As for English not being the first language of many a user, it > only > > > > hightens > > > > the cogency of our point; namely, a sound knowledge of English > would be > > > > of > > > > considerable help. There is no logical reason why someone whose > second or > > > > third tongue is English cannot surpass the so-called native > speakers, > > > > some > > > > of whom merely emit sounds, which they fondly believe to be > English. > > > > > > > > Hail to thee! > > > > > > > > L. M. > > > > > > May the blessings of our Emperor be with thee to the end of all > ages! > > > > > > Fi-Ji > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 23:17:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E0F37B401 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:17:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B793243FBD for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:17:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h357HaA13611 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:17:36 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:17:36 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030405171736.L88507@welearn.com.au> Mail-Followup-To: Sue Blake , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Subject: OT X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 07:17:42 -0000 Hey guys, will ya stop ya bitch'n? Personal attacks are not allowed on _any_ freebsd mailing list even if they are meant in fun, and trolls (look it up) should always be ignored. This is not the village drama club! Anyone who has overdosed on linguistic laxatives should go have a cup of tea and read a man page until they calm down. -- Regards, -*Sue*- From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 23:26:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1849637B401 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:26:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from death.arcdiv.com (death.arcdiv.com [66.45.15.253]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41CB343FB1 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:26:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kevin@ticktockman.com) Received: from ticktockman.com (c66-235-58-211.sea2.cablespeed.com [66.235.58.211]) by death.arcdiv.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h357Qc2k019283 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 02:26:38 -0500 Message-ID: <3E8E85DF.4020605@ticktockman.com> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 23:29:35 -0800 From: kevin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org References: <20030405171736.L88507@welearn.com.au> In-Reply-To: <20030405171736.L88507@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: OT X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 07:26:43 -0000 Sue Blake wrote: > > This is not the village drama club! Anyone who has overdosed on > linguistic laxatives should go have a cup of tea and read a man page > until they calm down. > linguistic laxatives. that is a great phrase. :) From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 5 02:10:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF1437B401 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 02:10:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.lphp.org (APastourelles-107-1-4-138.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.253.178.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 979B843FAF for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 02:10:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ajacoutot@lphp.org) Received: from sta01 (sta01.lphp.org.local [192.168.0.4]) by mx1.lphp.org (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h35AAQCa000475 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:10:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ajacoutot@lphp.org) From: Antoine Jacoutot To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 12:10:25 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200304051210.25596.ajacoutot@lphp.org> Subject: syslog X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 10:10:30 -0000 Bonjour =E0 tous ! Je cherche une bonne documentation sur la fa=E7on de loguer les =E9v=E8neme= nts sous=20 =46reeBSD. En effet, j'ai l'impression d'avoir tr=E8s peu d'information dans mes logs. Par exemple, je n'ai aucun log concernant le d=E9marrage ou l'arr=EAt de mo= n=20 serveur nfs (c'est un exemple). Si je relance named, j'ai bien un message=20 dans /var/log/messages, mais pas si je relance le serveur nfs ou si quelqu'= un=20 monte un de mes r=E9pertoires export=E9s. J'ai jet=E9 un oeil dans syslog.conf (ainsi que sa page de manuel), mais je= ne=20 trouve pas vraiment d'info claire. Merci d'avance. Antoine From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 5 07:48:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 000B137B401 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:48:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.lphp.org (APastourelles-107-1-5-204.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.252.221.204]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C55443FD7 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:48:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ajacoutot@lphp.org) Received: from sta01 (sta01.lphp.org.local [192.168.0.4]) by mx1.lphp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h35FlnQh075549; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:47:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ajacoutot@lphp.org) From: Antoine Jacoutot To: "Pablo Morales" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:47:45 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200304051210.25596.ajacoutot@lphp.org> <001801c2fb70$6f3023d0$0229c80a@abtec412> In-Reply-To: <001801c2fb70$6f3023d0$0229c80a@abtec412> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200304051747.45400.ajacoutot@lphp.org> Subject: Re: syslog X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 15:48:16 -0000 On Saturday 05 April 2003 14:39, Pablo Morales wrote: I am so sorry about this message... I sent it to the wrong list. Sorry everyone for the noise. Antoine > Bonjour =E0 tous ! > > Je cherche une bonne documentation sur la fa=E7on de loguer les =E9v=E8ne= ments > sous > FreeBSD. > En effet, j'ai l'impression d'avoir tr=E8s peu d'information dans mes log= s. > Par exemple, je n'ai aucun log concernant le d=E9marrage ou l'arr=EAt de = mon > serveur nfs (c'est un exemple). Si je relance named, j'ai bien un message > dans /var/log/messages, mais pas si je relance le serveur nfs ou si > quelqu'un > monte un de mes r=E9pertoires export=E9s. > J'ai jet=E9 un oeil dans syslog.conf (ainsi que sa page de manuel), mais = je > ne trouve pas vraiment d'info claire. > Merci d'avance. > > Antoine From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 5 08:07:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 420EA37B401 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:07:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 536C243FB1 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:07:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net) Received: from linux (87.st-louis-57-60ev.mo.dial-access.att.net[12.85.158.87]) by mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2003040516073211100r0lf9e>; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:07:32 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Jonathan Drews To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:11:46 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200304051011.46942.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> Subject: CUPS printing in FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 16:07:35 -0000 Hello: =20 I am FreeBSD newbie and really like FreeBSD. I have CUPS installed and=20 it prints very nicely from Kde apps. However if I try to print from the=20 word processor Ted, no hardcopy is produced. I also noticed that the=20 commands lpr and lpq are missing. Perhaps someone knows of a good=20 tutorial on setting up CUPS in FreeBSD ? I am running 4.8 RC 1. =09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09TIA =09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09Jonathan From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 5 09:17:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35A0C37B401 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:17:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 52CE343F93 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:17:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lars@gmx.at) Received: (qmail 24588 invoked by uid 65534); 5 Apr 2003 17:17:15 -0000 Received: from 235.92.203.62.dial.bluewin.ch (EHLO klang.mine.nu) (62.203.92.235) by mail.gmx.net (mp022-rz3) with SMTP; 05 Apr 2003 19:17:15 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: lars To: Andrew Y Ng Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 19:17:15 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <200304042259.42892.lars@gmx.at> <200304050226.49470.lars@gmx.at> <20030405015823.GA12519@AndrewNg.com> In-Reply-To: <20030405015823.GA12519@AndrewNg.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200304051917.15332.lars@gmx.at> cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No sound in KDE3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 17:17:18 -0000 On Saturday 05 April 2003 03:58, Andrew Y Ng wrote: > `artsdsp mpg123 foo.mp3` > /ayn I'm afraid that didn't work, visually the file is being played=20 -but I can't hear anything. thx, lars. From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 5 09:56:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3077337B401 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:56:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F03F643FBD for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:56:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lars@gmx.at) Received: (qmail 17661 invoked by uid 65534); 5 Apr 2003 17:56:56 -0000 Received: from 235.92.203.62.dial.bluewin.ch (EHLO klang.mine.nu) (62.203.92.235) by mail.gmx.net (mp018-rz3) with SMTP; 05 Apr 2003 19:56:56 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "lars@gmx.at" To: lars , Andrew Y Ng Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 19:56:56 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <200304042259.42892.lars@gmx.at> <20030405015823.GA12519@AndrewNg.com> <200304051917.15332.lars@gmx.at> In-Reply-To: <200304051917.15332.lars@gmx.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200304051956.56209."lars@gmx.at"> cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: SOLVED:Re: No sound in KDE3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 17:56:59 -0000 On Saturday 05 April 2003 19:17, lars wrote: > On Saturday 05 April 2003 03:58, Andrew Y Ng wrote: > > `artsdsp mpg123 foo.mp3` > > /ayn > > I'm afraid that didn't work, visually the file is being played > -but I can't hear anything. > > thx, > lars. Jesus, I am dumb... After I disabled 'Onboard PCI Audio Controller' in my ASUS P4T533's BIOS sound works flawlessly with just the csa driver. Thanks for your help though ayn ;-) =2E..I can finally kick win2k for good -hoorah! From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 5 16:53:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 080CE37B401 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:53:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net (scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5039A43F3F for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:53:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lute@cableone.net) Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net ([10.116.0.123]) by scanmail3.cableone.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:48:38 -0700 Received: from scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123] by scanmail3.cableone.net (SMTPD32-7.04) id A96666EA00B0; Sat, 05 Apr 2003 17:48:38 -0700 Received: from agnes (24-116-227-234.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.227.234]) by mail.cableone.net with SMTP (MailShield v2.04 - WIN32 Jul 17 2001 17:12:42); Sat, 05 Apr 2003 17:48:38 -0700 Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:51:23 -0600 From: Lute Mullenix To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20030405185123.08794bcf.lute@cableone.net> In-Reply-To: <200304051956.56209."lars@gmx.at"> References: <200304042259.42892.lars@gmx.at> <20030405015823.GA12519@AndrewNg.com> <200304051917.15332.lars@gmx.at> <200304051956.56209."lars@gmx.at"> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SMTP-HELO: agnes X-SMTP-MAIL-FROM: lute@cableone.net X-SMTP-PEER-INFO: 24-116-227-234.cpe.cableone.net [24.116.227.234] Subject: Re: SOLVED:Re: No sound in KDE3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 00:53:09 -0000 On Sat, 5 Apr 2003 19:56:56 +0200 "lars@gmx.at" insisted: > Jesus, I am dumb... > > After I disabled 'Onboard PCI Audio Controller' in my > ASUS P4T533's BIOS sound works flawlessly with > just the csa driver. > > Thanks for your help though ayn ;-) > > ...I can finally kick win2k for good -hoorah! Hey I think we all have pulled hair out for something like that once or twice in the game. Lute ************************ * Power Provided * * by * * FreeBSD 5.0 RELEASE * ************************