From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 6 04:27:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 127A016A4CE for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 04:27:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from web12903.mail.yahoo.com (web12903.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.70]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D87D43D4C for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 04:27:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from zjypzzjaymzz@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040106122726.53002.qmail@web12903.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.40.61.251] by web12903.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Jan 2004 04:27:26 PST Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 04:27:26 -0800 (PST) From: Jaym Avonier To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: cool very high minded X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 12:27:28 -0000 It rocks.Cocks up. signature --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 6 10:33:18 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1BEB16A4CE for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:33:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69D8543D58 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:33:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFD8D3D28 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:33:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Dan Langille" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:33:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3FFAB91B.2480.F335751D@localhost> Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: Ottawa (and area) pizza + beer - OSW discussion X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:33:18 -0000 This Thursday Dec 8 2004, we're meeting at 6pm at the Colonade, Somerset St for some pizza+beer. The main topic of dicussion will be what we are doing at OSW (Open Source Weekend) which is about a month away (http://www.osw.ca/). 280 Metcalfe at Gilmour http://www.ottawaplus.ca/map?mode=geo&id=49236&lat=454158&lon=-756913 We try to be in the same seats each time, which is to the left as you enter, and in the farthest corner. If you can't find us, ask the staff where the computer group is. You don't have to eat pizza, or drink beer. But most of us will be. For that matter, you don't even have to be interested in BSD. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 6 10:39:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E417B16A4CE for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:39:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA5843D39 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:39:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7373D28 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:39:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Dan Langille" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:39:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3FFABA83.18395.F33AF2CE@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3FFAB91B.2480.F335751D@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: Re: Ottawa (and area) pizza + beer - OSW discussion X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:39:17 -0000 On 6 Jan 2004 at 13:33, Dan Langille wrote: > This Thursday Dec 8 2004, we're meeting at 6pm at the Colonade, Jan, not Dec. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 7 06:53:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C080B16A4CE for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 06:53:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from amsfep12-int.chello.nl (amsfep12-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C947C43D46 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 06:53:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joao@bowtie.nl) Received: from nietzsche.intra.bowtie.nl ([212.142.29.165]) by amsfep12-int.chello.nlESMTP <20040107145321.XKUO15111.amsfep12-int.chello.nl@nietzsche.intra.bowtie.nl>; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:53:21 +0100 Received: from hume.intra.bowtie.nl (hume.intra.bowtie.nl [192.168.4.13]) i07ErK6v003444; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:53:21 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from joao@bowtie.nl) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:54:35 +0100 From: Joao Schim To: Marian Hettwer Message-Id: <20040107155435.213fd21b.joao@bowtie.nl> In-Reply-To: <3FFC09D5.5080700@kernel32.de> References: <3FFBD7B4.8010207@kernel32.de> <20040107125842.4d970782.joao@bowtie.nl> <3FFC09D5.5080700@kernel32.de> Organization: BowTie Technology BV X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.7) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Getting attention (was Re: Where is FreeBSD going?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:53:26 -0000 On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:29:57 +0100 Marian Hettwer wrote: > > Nevertheless, it's not the main point. > The main question was: How to give FreeBSD more PR? > > best regards, > Marian I've always considered the efforts made by Mr. Lucas, writing articles and such, quite impressive.. So maybe we just need a whole lot of writing .. HOWTO's, handbook translations, plain articles. Also i hear a lot of people complaining that the VA-software sponsored sites like slashdot and such are extremely anti-BSD. Cant say im a regular visitor of those sites so i wonder if that is a full truth. btw. does anybody know of a url where a decent comparison in techniques used in Linux / BSD's / Windows / ... it so be viewed ? (non sponsored ofcourse) Kind regards, Joao -- =========================================================================== Joao Schim telefoon:(+31)40-2649860 fax:(+31)40-2649861 http://www.bowtie.nl BowTie Technology BV Raiffeisenstraat 7 - 5611 CH Eindhoven From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 7 07:17:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE66C16A4CE for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 07:17:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5823E43D31 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 07:17:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (neutrino.centtech.com [10.177.171.220]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i07FGm6T091389; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:16:48 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <3FFC22CD.40201@centtech.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:16:29 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joao Schim References: <3FFBD7B4.8010207@kernel32.de> <20040107125842.4d970782.joao@bowtie.nl> <3FFC09D5.5080700@kernel32.de> <20040107155435.213fd21b.joao@bowtie.nl> In-Reply-To: <20040107155435.213fd21b.joao@bowtie.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Marian Hettwer Subject: Re: Getting attention (was Re: Where is FreeBSD going?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 15:17:05 -0000 Joao Schim wrote: >On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:29:57 +0100 >Marian Hettwer wrote: > > > >>Nevertheless, it's not the main point. >>The main question was: How to give FreeBSD more PR? >> >>best regards, >>Marian >> >> > >I've always considered the efforts made by Mr. Lucas, writing >articles and such, quite impressive.. So maybe we just need a >whole lot of writing .. HOWTO's, handbook translations, plain articles. > If FreeBSD (or any *BSD's for that matter) want to get a larger foothold, and userbase, I think the key is the corporate market, and the key to that is visible support/resource lines, and visible "quick response" to serious bugs. >Also i hear a lot of people complaining that the VA-software sponsored >sites like slashdot and such are extremely anti-BSD. Cant say im a >regular visitor of those sites so i wonder if that is a full truth. > >btw. does anybody know of a url where a decent comparison in techniques >used in Linux / BSD's / Windows / ... it so be viewed ? (non sponsored >ofcourse) > > A lot of slashdotter's and such are anti-bsd on paper - meaning they whine and try to poke fun at the bsd's, but those same people (in my view, and many other peoples'), are not really taken seriously by any real developers or members of projects. They are mostly the hide-behind-the-keyboard types. Slashdot is the digital/online equivalent of The Enquirer, except the Enquirer is actually funny, and Slashdot is just pathetic. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology All generalizations are false, including this one. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 7 07:19:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEECB16A4D0 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 07:19:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2070343D31 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 07:19:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (neutrino.centtech.com [10.177.171.220]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i07FIt6T092155; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:18:56 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <3FFC234C.1010807@centtech.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:18:36 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Anderson References: <3FFBD7B4.8010207@kernel32.de> <20040107125842.4d970782.joao@bowtie.nl> <3FFC09D5.5080700@kernel32.de> <20040107155435.213fd21b.joao@bowtie.nl> <3FFC22CD.40201@centtech.com> In-Reply-To: <3FFC22CD.40201@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Marian Hettwer Subject: Re: Getting attention (was Re: Where is FreeBSD going?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 15:19:06 -0000 Eric Anderson wrote: >> >> I've always considered the efforts made by Mr. Lucas, writing >> articles and such, quite impressive.. So maybe we just need a >> whole lot of writing .. HOWTO's, handbook translations, plain articles. >> > If FreeBSD (or any *BSD's for that matter) want to get a larger > foothold, and userbase, I think the key is the corporate market, and > the key to that is visible support/resource lines, and visible "quick > response" to serious bugs. > >> Also i hear a lot of people complaining that the VA-software sponsored >> sites like slashdot and such are extremely anti-BSD. Cant say im a >> regular visitor of those sites so i wonder if that is a full truth. >> >> btw. does anybody know of a url where a decent comparison in techniques >> used in Linux / BSD's / Windows / ... it so be viewed ? (non sponsored >> ofcourse) >> >> > A lot of slashdotter's and such are anti-bsd on paper - meaning they > whine and try to poke fun at the bsd's, but those same people (in my > view, and many other peoples'), are not really taken seriously by any > real developers or members of projects. They are mostly the > hide-behind-the-keyboard types. Slashdot is the digital/online > equivalent of The Enquirer, except the Enquirer is actually funny, and > Slashdot is just pathetic. Ok - that came across kind of harsh - please understand I have a sarcastic sense of humor.. :) Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology All generalizations are false, including this one. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 7 07:34:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD13616A4CE for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 07:34:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from amsfep15-int.chello.nl (amsfep15-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.28]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D19C43D49 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 07:34:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joao@bowtie.nl) Received: from nietzsche.intra.bowtie.nl ([212.142.29.165]) by amsfep15-int.chello.nlESMTP <20040107153400.MLUK3882.amsfep15-int.chello.nl@nietzsche.intra.bowtie.nl>; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:34:00 +0100 Received: from hume.intra.bowtie.nl (hume.intra.bowtie.nl [192.168.4.13]) i07FXx6v003786; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:34:00 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from joao@bowtie.nl) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:35:14 +0100 From: Joao Schim To: Marian Hettwer Message-Id: <20040107163514.247cab62.joao@bowtie.nl> In-Reply-To: <3FFC241A.9000906@kernel32.de> References: <3FFBD7B4.8010207@kernel32.de> <20040107125842.4d970782.joao@bowtie.nl> <3FFC09D5.5080700@kernel32.de> <20040107155435.213fd21b.joao@bowtie.nl> <3FFC241A.9000906@kernel32.de> Organization: BowTie Technology BV X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.7) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Getting attention (was Re: Where is FreeBSD going?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 15:34:06 -0000 On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:22:02 +0100 Marian Hettwer wrote: > Hi there, > > Joao Schim wrote: > > On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:29:57 +0100 > > Marian Hettwer wrote: > > > > > >>Nevertheless, it's not the main point. > >>The main question was: How to give FreeBSD more PR? > >> > >>best regards, > >>Marian > > > > > > I've always considered the efforts made by Mr. Lucas, writing > > articles and such, quite impressive.. So maybe we just need a > > whole lot of writing .. HOWTO's, handbook translations, plain > > articles. > > > right. www.onlamp.com is great, therefor the things Mr. lucas or Dru > Lavigne are writing are great too. > Nevertheless, this don't gives much more PR. > I believe the way to get people to know FreeBSD is more likely to get > FreeBSD articles in magazines like Linux Magazine in the US, or Germany > etc. Sometimes you can find articles there, but it's often to few. > > Somebody else mentioned writing white papers for business level. This > may be a way to push easier FreeBSD at corporate level. Means, you are > the sysadmin, going with a nice white paper to your CTO, sort of. > > > Also i hear a lot of people complaining that the VA-software sponsored > > sites like slashdot and such are extremely anti-BSD. Cant say im a > > regular visitor of those sites so i wonder if that is a full truth. > > > oh well, slash-dot always has their "BSD is dead" thread. always ... > > > > btw. does anybody know of a url where a decent comparison in techniques > > used in Linux / BSD's / Windows / ... it so be viewed ? (non sponsored > > ofcourse) > > > check google. there are several comparisons. If i wasn't FreeBSD user already that answer would have defenitly convinced me to use it :-) > best regards, > Marian > just a little sarcasm. Regards, Joao -- =========================================================================== Joao Schim telefoon:(+31)40-2649860 fax:(+31)40-2649861 http://www.bowtie.nl BowTie Technology BV Raiffeisenstraat 7 - 5611 CH Eindhoven From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 7 07:38:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 215B216A4CE for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 07:38:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.cyclades.de (mail.linux-router.org [62.225.173.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFB2143D45 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 07:38:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mh@kernel32.de) Received: from pd9ff8813.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.255.136.19] helo=kernel32.de) by www.cyclades.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AeFVe-0005uZ-00; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:22:14 +0100 Message-ID: <3FFC241A.9000906@kernel32.de> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:22:02 +0100 From: Marian Hettwer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031115 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joao Schim References: <3FFBD7B4.8010207@kernel32.de> <20040107125842.4d970782.joao@bowtie.nl> <3FFC09D5.5080700@kernel32.de> <20040107155435.213fd21b.joao@bowtie.nl> In-Reply-To: <20040107155435.213fd21b.joao@bowtie.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Getting attention (was Re: Where is FreeBSD going?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 15:38:07 -0000 Hi there, Joao Schim wrote: > On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:29:57 +0100 > Marian Hettwer wrote: > > >>Nevertheless, it's not the main point. >>The main question was: How to give FreeBSD more PR? >> >>best regards, >>Marian > > > I've always considered the efforts made by Mr. Lucas, writing > articles and such, quite impressive.. So maybe we just need a > whole lot of writing .. HOWTO's, handbook translations, plain articles. > right. www.onlamp.com is great, therefor the things Mr. lucas or Dru Lavigne are writing are great too. Nevertheless, this don't gives much more PR. I believe the way to get people to know FreeBSD is more likely to get FreeBSD articles in magazines like Linux Magazine in the US, or Germany etc. Sometimes you can find articles there, but it's often to few. Somebody else mentioned writing white papers for business level. This may be a way to push easier FreeBSD at corporate level. Means, you are the sysadmin, going with a nice white paper to your CTO, sort of. > Also i hear a lot of people complaining that the VA-software sponsored > sites like slashdot and such are extremely anti-BSD. Cant say im a > regular visitor of those sites so i wonder if that is a full truth. > oh well, slash-dot always has their "BSD is dead" thread. always ... > btw. does anybody know of a url where a decent comparison in techniques > used in Linux / BSD's / Windows / ... it so be viewed ? (non sponsored > ofcourse) > check google. there are several comparisons. best regards, Marian From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 7 12:24:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F67516A4D0 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:24:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A992643D48 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:24:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i07KMnUd010430; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:22:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)i07KMmKN010427; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:22:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:22:48 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Marian Hettwer In-Reply-To: <3FFC241A.9000906@kernel32.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Getting attention (was Re: Where is FreeBSD going?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 20:24:28 -0000 On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Marian Hettwer wrote: > Somebody else mentioned writing white papers for business level. This > may be a way to push easier FreeBSD at corporate level. Means, you are > the sysadmin, going with a nice white paper to your CTO, sort of. It seems there are some very strong arguments for building network and storage appliances on FreeBSD -- not just the license, but also the maturity of the software, etc. Since the arguments are made frequently, gathering them in one place is almost certainly a good idea. It would provide mulch to be distributed at conferences, stapled to walls, handed to the boss, provided to FreeBSD redistributors and bundlers, etc. The trick is to write the bumf in a strong way, and to pick arguments carefully. One of the biggest problems FreeBSD has in the advocacy space is that the developers like to use guarded language in describing features -- we don't want to promise something that isn't there. In some places that's considered admirable, but when it comes to paper in a booth at a conference, overuse of guarded language isn't so useful :-). Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Senior Research Scientist, McAfee Research From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 7 12:55:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E62716A4CE for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:55:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from out003.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1A5543D2D for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:55:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matt@tasonline.com) Received: from [192.168.1.47] ([151.196.121.211]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040107205513.FLNI20713.out003.verizon.net@[192.168.1.47]> for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:55:13 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: Matt Jarjoura Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:55:11 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [151.196.121.211] at Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:55:13 -0600 Subject: FreeBSD Today X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 20:55:15 -0000 What I think FreeBSD should have to grow -> A) A really good PR executive who cleverly removes the image of being ultra-geek (or hard-to-learn) material. B) A really strong installation program (something RedHat/Fedora excel at). C) Make the developer tools more modular (not tied to kernel) so that you can upgrade them and change them, or not even install them if you choose. One cool thing... FreeBSD has the advantage of being loosely tied to Apple's development of Darwin. I noticed they are bringing pre-binding to the FreeBSD Kernel. All I can say is sweeeeet. - Matt Jarjoura From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 7 13:58:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8959316A4CE for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 13:58:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 941D443D54 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 13:58:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.12.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i07Lw5HV064481 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:58:05 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost)i07Lw5aC064478 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:58:05 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:58:05 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040107235659.B32387-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: Where is FreeBSD going? (fwd) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:58:08 -0000 Opinion was expressed on chat@ that there may be interested people on this list... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:09:34 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Robert Watson On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, Robert Watson wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, Narvi wrote: > > > On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, Robert Watson wrote: > > > Agreed. It's just a starting point, but one particular benefit of it as a > starting point is that it would bring to people's attention the people > who's contributions to advocacy are most effective, as well as build a > base of marketing materials and volunteers. > > High on my wish list of marketing materials are some 2-page "white papers" > on deploying FreeBSD. Particular, short 2-pagers on FreeBSD as a network > appliance or storage appliance base, as a firewall, and as a database > server. Nicely laid out, business-like, and appropriate for distribution > as PDF or on paper at conferences. I think a starting point should probably be "generic" 2- and 4-pagers that give information about freebsd. The 4-pager could go into more depth as to what exactly 5.x has technology and benefits wise. It will also need to be targeted at an audience - what you want to tell ISV / white box maker / PHB / embedded developer / sysadmin / wannabe hacker / etc (not saying all should be covered or covered from start) would be necessarily different, possibly quite a lot. The non-generic, application specific 2-pagers would then be sort of companions to the 4-pager I guess to showcase a specific application. Or something like that - this is not meant as gospel, just thinking out loud. I do probably have time to spend on this, provided there are others, as there is no way I can spend so much on it to go alone. > > Another thing I'd like to see is a retrofit on the "Power to server" > brand, which I think was one of our more effective slogans. A nice logo > and slogan can go a long way, because people stick them on everything. One > of the ideas I've been poking at is moving to a logo that slightly > deemphasizes the Daemon, and instead connotes "power and reliability" -- > perhaps some sort of train-based logo. Something like: > > F r e e B S D > [train in motion logo] > The Power to Serve Looks ok. Traditionaly, the "lets have a contest" thing around such has given quite bad results (rather, usualy none) - going back all the way to 96/97. Having an art crew is probably a very tough. Or maybe i'm mistaken - the FreeBSD/gnome splash screen is quite nice.I can't personaly draw at all. > > Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects > robert@fledge.watson.org Senior Research Scientist, McAfee Research > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 7 16:38:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFAC716A4D1 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:38:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from priv-edtnes14-hme0.telusplanet.net (outbound03.telus.net [199.185.220.222]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB01743D3F for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:38:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pfak@telus.net) Received: from diamond ([206.116.24.146]) by priv-edtnes14-hme0.telusplanet.netSMTP <20040108003800.LSEL2080.priv-edtnes14-hme0.telusplanet.net@diamond>; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:38:00 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01c3d57f$a5c4d910$c701a8c0@diamond> From: "Peter Kieser" To: "Matt Jarjoura" References: Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:37:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Today X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 00:38:02 -0000 We don't need an installation program like Redhat, that'd make me change from FreeBSD like a burning ant. That's one thing that I like about FreeBSD, is it's easy installation process, that will start on any computer, and doesn't take two hours to do. Modular development tools are also a no-no, you can't compile FreeBSD 4.x with 3.3 gcc.. (afaik), that would be asking for big trouble. --Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Jarjoura" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:55 PM Subject: FreeBSD Today > What I think FreeBSD should have to grow -> > > A) A really good PR executive who cleverly removes the image of being > ultra-geek (or hard-to-learn) material. > B) A really strong installation program (something RedHat/Fedora excel > at). > C) Make the developer tools more modular (not tied to kernel) so that > you can upgrade them and change them, or not even install them if you > choose. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 7 17:23:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A61A716A4CE for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:23:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EBC343D2D for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:23:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F74515440 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:23:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from fubar.adept.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fubar.adept.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 11220-10 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:22:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from adept.org (mojo.televoke.net [63.237.196.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7649B15239 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:22:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3FFCB0F2.6040206@adept.org> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:22:58 -0800 From: Mike Hoskins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031110 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <000b01c3d57f$a5c4d910$c701a8c0@diamond> In-Reply-To: <000b01c3d57f$a5c4d910$c701a8c0@diamond> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: FreeBSD Today X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 01:23:21 -0000 Peter Kieser wrote: > We don't need an installation program like Redhat, that'd make me change > from FreeBSD like a burning ant. That's one thing that I like about FreeBSD, > is it's easy installation process, that will start on any computer, and > doesn't take two hours to do. agreed... although a lot of people seem to think it needs an overhaul. obviously everything needs kept up to date, but i like the current installer a lot better than RH's. i've seen RH's installer hang on many a system... from well-supported desktops to cutting edge servers. it also makes a lot of things more difficult (or, i guess i should say "windows like") which can be frustrating. the end result is that no admin i know ever touches the darned thing. for situations where the current installer doesn't quite fit the bill... "BSD from scratch" is one alternate answer. of course that's probably considered "ultra geek" and not for every day newbie use. it does give strict control over the install though. working to wrap some "run-anywhere", "user-friendly" interface around this sort of "power tool" (more like a power process, since it currently involves disparate scripts/makefiles) would probably make some people happy. http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200302/fbsdscratch.html > Modular development tools are also a no-no, you can't compile FreeBSD 4.x > with 3.3 gcc.. (afaik), that would be asking for big trouble. it may be nice to allow such things to be more easily removed for "security" reasons, but one certainly does have to avoid shooting themselves in the foot. in places where this is actually desired, it would probably be better to run a custom distro (which could really just be freebsd minus some agreed upon things to remove, backed by policy, enforced by script) or look at embedded/hardening projects which already do this or make it relatively moot. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 7 17:32:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EDA616A4CE for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:32:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D659543D68 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:32:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pfak@telus.net) Received: from diamond ([206.116.24.146]) by priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040108013212.YYEX16756.priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net@diamond>; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:32:12 -0700 Message-ID: <001401c3d587$3471cb80$c701a8c0@diamond> From: "Peter Kieser" To: "Mike Hoskins" References: <000b01c3d57f$a5c4d910$c701a8c0@diamond> <3FFCB0F2.6040206@adept.org> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:31:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Today X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 01:32:15 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Hoskins" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 5:22 PM Subject: Re: FreeBSD Today > > for situations where the current installer doesn't quite fit the bill... > "BSD from scratch" is one alternate answer. of course that's probably > considered "ultra geek" and not for every day newbie use. it does give > strict control over the install though. working to wrap some > "run-anywhere", "user-friendly" interface around this sort of "power > tool" (more like a power process, since it currently involves disparate > scripts/makefiles) would probably make some people happy. > > http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200302/fbsdscratch.html > I agree. If it doesn't fit the bill, role your own. I can install FreeBSD in my sleep, and I'd be really ticked off if they changed the installation much. I like it for it's simplicity, it reminds me of installing a Novell NetWare 3.12, or a 4.11 server =) > > Modular development tools are also a no-no, you can't compile FreeBSD 4.x > > with 3.3 gcc.. (afaik), that would be asking for big trouble. > > it may be nice to allow such things to be more easily removed for > "security" reasons, but one certainly does have to avoid shooting > themselves in the foot. in places where this is actually desired, it > would probably be better to run a custom distro (which could really just > be freebsd minus some agreed upon things to remove, backed by policy, > enforced by script) or look at embedded/hardening projects which already > do this or make it relatively moot. > That's what OVERRIDE_BASE (sp?) is for in ports. --Peter From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 8 01:15:53 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F20716A4CE for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 01:15:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from amsfep19-int.chello.nl (amsfep19-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 396A243D48 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 01:15:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joao@bowtie.nl) Received: from nietzsche.intra.bowtie.nl ([212.142.29.165]) by amsfep19-int.chello.nlESMTP <20040108091549.NNDX9184.amsfep19-int.chello.nl@nietzsche.intra.bowtie.nl>; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:15:49 +0100 Received: from hume.intra.bowtie.nl (hume.intra.bowtie.nl [192.168.4.13]) i089Fl6v013120; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:15:48 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from joao@bowtie.nl) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:17:00 +0100 From: Joao Schim To: "Peter Kieser" Message-Id: <20040108101700.6a4a8d33.joao@bowtie.nl> In-Reply-To: <000b01c3d57f$a5c4d910$c701a8c0@diamond> References: <000b01c3d57f$a5c4d910$c701a8c0@diamond> Organization: BowTie Technology BV X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.7) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Matt Jarjoura cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Today X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 09:15:53 -0000 On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:37:50 -0800 "Peter Kieser" wrote: > We don't need an installation program like Redhat, that'd make me change > from FreeBSD like a burning ant. That's one thing that I like about > FreeBSD, is it's easy installation process, that will start on any > computer, and doesn't take two hours to do. > I think you meant the term "I don't need ..." The fact a lot of people dont need it does in no way mean we should not provide a way to enable such an interface. There's a lot of people who actually WOULD enjoy it. Another reason i get from some people not to use FreeBSD is that it does not support multiple languages. But i personally dont see that as a problem at all. I know i must have looked very scary when i saw "Opdracht kan niet uitgevoerd worden" for the first time in one of the linux distros.. brrrr :) Regards, Joao -- =========================================================================== Joao Schim telefoon:(+31)40-2649860 fax:(+31)40-2649861 http://www.bowtie.nl BowTie Technology BV Raiffeisenstraat 7 - 5611 CH Eindhoven From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 8 04:00:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A80CA16A4D0 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 04:00:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from cvis163.marconicomms.com (cvis163.marconicomms.com [128.87.251.113]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E111843D45 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 04:00:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sje2bk@bk4957.de.marconicomms.com) Received: from cvis153.mail.marconicomms.com by cvis163.marconicomms.com with ESMTP (8.11.7p1+Sun/mcig-4) id i08C0AM22163; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:00:10 GMT Received: from cvhpmailhost.marconicomms.com (unverified) by cvis151.mail.marconicomms.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.3.12) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:00:10 +0000 Received: from bk4957.de.marconicomms.com by cvhpmailhost.marconicomms.com with ESMTP (8.9.3 (PHNE_22672)/mcmh-7) id MAA21687; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:00:09 GMT Received: from bk4957.de.marconicomms.com (localhost.de.marconicomms.com [127.0.0.1]) by bk4957.de.marconicomms.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i08C8uR2003634 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:08:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sje2bk@bk4957.de.marconicomms.com) Received: (from sje2bk@localhost) by bk4957.de.marconicomms.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id i08C8ujY003633 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:08:56 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:08:55 +0100 From: Jens Schweikhardt To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040108120855.GD287@bk4957.de.marconicomms.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Re: FreeBSD Today X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 12:00:24 -0000 Mike Hoskins wrote: ... >for situations where the current installer doesn't quite fit the bill... > "BSD from scratch" is one alternate answer. of course that's probably >considered "ultra geek" and not for every day newbie use. it does give >strict control over the install though. working to wrap some >"run-anywhere", "user-friendly" interface around this sort of "power >tool" (more like a power process, since it currently involves disparate >scripts/makefiles) would probably make some people happy. > >http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200302/fbsdscratch.html As the author of "FreeBSD from scratch" let me tell you it already is a part of the "Articles" and has recently (few days ago) been updated. See http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/fbsd-from-scratch/article.html Regards, Jens -- Jens Schweikhardt http://www.schweikhardt.net/ SIGSIG -- signature too long (core dumped)