From owner-freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 5 05:07:53 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D22B16A4CE for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 05:07:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9228343D49 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 05:07:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedwin2k (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) i8558GW57287; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 22:08:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 22:10:51 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal cc: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Question on ATM w/ FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: ATM for FreeBSD! List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 05:07:53 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: alex@pilosoft.com [mailto:alex@pilosoft.com] > Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 6:11 AM > To: Ted Mittelstaedt > Cc: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org > Subject: RE: Question on ATM w/ FreeBSD > > > On Sat, 4 Sep 2004, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > > When I got that response I followed up with a second query to the > > carrier of whether the encap was RFC1483 Bridged or RFC1483 Routed. > > Apparently that exhausted the meager store of ATM knowledge that the > > technical contact had and the question was referred up the chain, > > presumably to someone more knowledgeable. > If you are dealing with ILEC ADSL in US, it is almost always > 1483-bridged, > that is, you going to have all (N) of your customers aggregated over (M) > PVC. You'll have one PVC per "gateway router", no matter how many > customers there are. > > > The owner of the ISP wants to go with this particular carrier because of > > some deals we have setup would make it very cheap, much cheaper than > > anyone else. Unfortunately it looks very much like we would be the only > > ISP in Portland OR that gets an Internet feed delivered via ATM. (at > > least, the only local one) I think probably there's a few national > > carriers with POPs here who use ATM on their backbones, no doubt. But I > > have a good bit of knowledge of our competitors here and highly doubt > > none of the rest of them are doing this, most likely because they > > wouldn't understand how to put it together. Few of them are multihomed, > > even. > Let me guess - you want to put IP feed on the same ATM interface that you > get your DSL customers on? No. We have 3 DS3 atm feeds, the DSL ones are one to Qwest and one to Verizon. The 3rd DS3 atm is an egress to another carrier that provisions frame circuits in our area. All of these are only egress DSL. No backbones (in this area at least) provision over ILEC atm clouds. In any case bringing in feeds on the same DS3 as egress DSL to customers would mean attempting to run BGP on the same router the DSL is going out on. It would be a terrible octopuslike configuration, all eggs in one basket, and prone to lots of trouble. Our feed routers that run BGP are separate from our egress routers. The egress routers that have the DS3s in them are in fact Cisco 7206's. (nonVXR) However the 7206 is not a powerful enough platform to run BGP on nowadays when you run a full set of access lists. The 7206VXR is barely adequate but it's much more expensive. And Cisco IOS lacks many critical tools needed for troubleshooting problems, it is a very unsuitable backbone router. > > > As a result of this the salespeople of the carrier we are talking to > > that services our market don't know diddly squat about atm. I won't > > post who it is so as not to embarass them. > Portland is Verizontal area, isn't it? > Both Qwest and Verizon are ilecs here. We are not talking to either of them for this project. As a matter of fact when we went to a DS3 with Verizon for DSL egress, none of the Verizon techs could supply any information on how the DSL vc's would come into our DS3. I had to determine that by trial and error. I still don't know exactly the optimal values for the burst rate. 120 seems to work with Cisco IOS but nobody at Verizon could tell me how their atm switches were configured for DSL. > > > its Variable Bit Rate. In this case you should get either and IDT77252 > > > or IDT77211 based card (I don't know whether there are cheap 77252 > > > cards, but you find Fore LE155 with a 77211 for a handful of $ on > > > ebay). Richard probably knows better to what extend the LE155 supports > > > VBR. > ILEC ADSL is almost always UBR, and don't need to worry about VBR support. > > On other hand, you *do* need to worry about your ATM cards supporting > non-zero VPI, because your customers will be on VPI 1. Many cards don't > support that. > The PA-A3-T3 cards for the 7206 are cheap and support this, in addition to bandwidth shaping on a per-vc basis. > If your card does not support VPI 1, you need a small ATM switch to move > ATM PVCs from one VPI to another. Fore ASX-200BX is excellent small and > cheap switch. > Are any of the cards mentioned - Fore LE155, PCA-200, HE155, not support VCI 1? > > My suspicion is that it's going to end up being Routed. The reason why > > is that we are already using a different group within this carrier to > > provide Frame Relay to customers -ie: we buy Frame circuits from their > > network to supply bandwidth to customers. Basically it's ATM vc's from > > us to their ATM switch which interworks it to a Frame circuit that the > > end user sees on the usual T1. That is of course a completely separate > > DS3 than what we are looking at buying. But the circuits provisioned > > off that are Routed not bridged, and all5snap, and vbr. > > > > It would also almost certainly be a single VC on the DS3. > > > > DSL egress in this market, by contrast, is all Bridged, both > with Verizon > > and Qwest. (we have both those ilecs here, ugh) They both use vbr and > > aal5mux. > > > > I have another question for you guys,- if I am using routed/vbr > is there any > > benefit to using a forerunner he155 and the fatm() driver as opposed to > > a Fore LE155 with the idt() driver? Also, what exactly is the > difference > > between a Fore LE155 and a Fore PCA-200 (which uses the hfa() driver I > > understand)? > > > > You are right in there being no cheap IDT77252 cards out there. I don't > > have $2-3K on this project to throw into atm pci cards. :-( > No real need to get HE vs LE. I am doing all of this on linux on LE > card... > > > Has anyone worked with the Ascend/Lucent/Avaya PSAX gear, like the PSAX > > 100? Is that an ATM switch that could run a VC from one interface to > > another? The documentation on Avaya's site is very unclear plus the PSAX > > 100 has been long discontinued. But because of that they appear to be > > rediculously cheap on the secondary market. > Like I said, take ASX200BX - it is still supported. > The switch chassis themselves are cheap enough on Ebay. But where you run into trouble is the DS3 cards for them usually aren't included with the switches, and are a lot harder to find secondhand. Not impossible, though, but rarer. And I don't much care about the supported/unsupported aspect of the equipment I use anyway. I'm the first line of support here. And the user community like the mailing list here, is the second line. And it doesen't make a lot of sense to spend $2K a year on a support contract with Cisco for a used 7206 that you bought off Ebay. For starters you don't get hardware support anyway, and secondly, I've used Cisco support enough times in the past to know that they aren't much good for the truly knotty problems. If we are buying used Fore switches/atm cards/ etc. I am not expecting any more support than a copy of the user manual. Remember this is all going into a FreeBSD router that will be running BGP, so I'm already on my own for support there, anyway. The Lucent PSAX gear I've seen on the secondary market, some of it is going for under $100. Compared to a used Fore ASX200BX at $800+, to me that is worth screwing with it - that is, if anyone can possibly confirm that the PSAX even is an ATM switch. Call Cisco support sometime and ask them why your 7206 running 12.0.7T IOS reboots about once a month or so. That's support for you. Ted > > > -alex > > From owner-freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 5 23:47:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 831A016A4CE for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 23:47:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD77043D48 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 23:47:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedwin2k (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) i85NlSW60769; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 16:47:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 16:46:31 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal cc: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Question on ATM w/ FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: ATM for FreeBSD! List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 23:47:05 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: alex@pilosoft.com [mailto:alex@pilosoft.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 5:49 AM > To: Ted Mittelstaedt > Cc: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org > Subject: RE: Question on ATM w/ FreeBSD > > > > All of these are only egress DSL. No backbones (in this area at least) > > provision over ILEC atm clouds. > FYI- VZ sells IP over their ATM cloud. Genuity/L3 used to do same, not > sure if they still do. > None of the backbone providers we considered had a NI into either the Qwest or Verizon ATM clouds here, I made sure to ask that so as to deal with that scenario early before some smartass here got sidetracked on this "great idea" of how to save money by bringing Internet feed in on the DS3's we were already paying for. Fortunately because of this I had an excuse. > > come into our DS3. I had to determine that by trial and error. I still > > don't know exactly the optimal values for the burst rate. 120 seems to > > work with Cisco IOS but nobody at Verizon could tell me how their atm > > switches were configured for DSL. > Its UBR - no burst or whatever rates necessary to configure. > Damn! I'll have to try that. I guessed vbr because that is how Qwest provisions it. So, since you know something about Verizon, do you happen to know why their latest Westell modems that they ship out identify themselves as Token Ring devices not Ethernet devices when they attempt to obtain IP numbers via DHCP? We got a laugh out of that one. :-) > > > If your card does not support VPI 1, you need a small ATM switch to > > > move ATM PVCs from one VPI to another. Fore ASX-200BX is excellent > > > small and cheap switch. > > > > > > > Are any of the cards mentioned - Fore LE155, PCA-200, HE155, not support > > VCI 1? > PCA-200 doesn't support non-zero VPI on linux. I don't know if its a card > limitation or linux driver limitation. > > > The switch chassis themselves are cheap enough on Ebay. But where you > > run into trouble is the DS3 cards for them usually aren't included with > > the switches, and are a lot harder to find secondhand. Not impossible, > > though, but rarer. > True true, ds3 for ASX are rare. I scored couple of them at 100$, but you > may have to wait some time... > > > And I don't much care about the supported/unsupported aspect of the > > equipment I use anyway. I'm the first line of support here. And the > > user community like the mailing list here, is the second line. And it > > doesen't make a lot of sense to spend $2K a year on a support contract > > with Cisco for a used 7206 that you bought off Ebay. For starters you > > don't get hardware support anyway, and secondly, I've used Cisco support > > enough times in the past to know that they aren't much good for the > > truly knotty problems. If we are buying used Fore switches/atm cards/ > > etc. I am not expecting any more support than a copy of the > user manual. > > Remember this is all going into a FreeBSD router that will be running > > BGP, so I'm already on my own for support there, anyway. > Well, I meant 'supported' as in 'software is still being developed' and > 'it is not obsolete'. Obviously nobody here is buying official vendor > support. Nevertheless, for 'supported' hardware, you will find better > luck with documentation, more people running it in the field, and > a chance > that you'll find software that does somewhat modern things... > All true. > > The Lucent PSAX gear I've seen on the secondary market, some of it is > > going for under $100. Compared to a used Fore ASX200BX at $800+, to me > > that is worth screwing with it - that is, if anyone can possibly confirm > > that the PSAX even is an ATM switch. > I never used PSAX - but it is marketed as ATM termination device, not > switch. Lucent wanted you to buy CBX as small ATM switch. Looking at docs > I could find it seems that you can use it as atm switch too [1] > > http://www.govcommerce.com/pdf/Lucent/lucent-psax-1250ds.pdf > www.lucentdocs.com search for PSAX 1000 or 1250 > Yeah, I already read that and thought the same thing. But I think the PSAX 1000 is considerably different than the PSAX 100 as I think Lucent added a lot of stuff to it's firmware. Someone else on this list mentioned the PSAX 100 could only handle bridged VCs not routed. Ted > -- > Alex Pilosov | DSL, Colocation, Hosting Services > President | alex@pilosoft.com (800) 710-7031 > Pilosoft, Inc. | http://www.pilosoft.com > > From owner-freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 6 07:01:23 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7EAA16A4CE for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:01:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from n33.kp.t-systems-sfr.com (n33.kp.t-systems-sfr.com [129.247.16.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E150843D2D for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:01:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from harti@freebsd.org) Received: from n81.sp.op.dlr.de (n81g.sp.op.dlr.de [129.247.163.1]) i867102462462; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:01:00 +0200 Received: from zeus.nt.op.dlr.de (zeus.nt.op.dlr.de [129.247.173.3]) i86710I81706; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:01:00 +0200 Received: from beagle.kn.op.dlr.de (opkndnwsbsd178 [129.247.173.178]) by zeus.nt.op.dlr.de (8.11.7+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8670we18152; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:00:59 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:01:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Harti Brandt X-X-Sender: brandt@beagle.kn.op.dlr.de To: Ted Mittelstaedt In-Reply-To: <20040904153835.C2146@mail.cheapline.net> Message-ID: <20040906085005.R16723@beagle.kn.op.dlr.de> References: <20040904153835.C2146@mail.cheapline.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Question on ATM w/ FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Harti Brandt List-Id: ATM for FreeBSD! List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 07:01:23 -0000 On Sat, 4 Sep 2004, Richard Hodges wrote: RH>On Sat, 4 Sep 2004, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: RH> RH>> > -----Original Message----- RH>> > From: Harti Brandt [mailto:harti@freebsd.org] RH>> > On Thu, 2 Sep 2004, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: RH> RH>> When I got that response I followed up with a second query to the carrier RH>> of whether the encap was RFC1483 Bridged or RFC1483 Routed. Apparently that RH>> exhausted the meager store of ATM knowledge that the technical contact had RH>> and the RH>> question was referred up the chain, presumably to someone more RH>> knowledgeable. RH>> RH>> It's week end now and I've not got a response. RH> RH>Maybe they could say what device they are using and some info on how RH>they plan to configure their end. RH> RH>> > If you have bridged LLC - I don't know whether HARP can do this. RH> RH>No, HARP only uses routed PDUs. At first glance, it seems that it would RH>be easy to strip off the bridged PDU header on incoming packets and RH>prepend one to outbound packets, but unless you are dealing with a single RH>host on the other end, you now have to maintain an ARP table. Either RH>that, or create a special virtual ethernet device that can attach to the RH>kernel ethernet block. With netgraph this should be doable: ng_eiface <---> ng_atmllc <---> ng_atm Would be a nice to get this working. RH>> My suspicion is that it's going to end up being Routed. The reason why RH>> is that we are already using a different group within this carrier to RH>> provide Frame Relay to customers -ie: we buy Frame circuits from their RH>> network to supply bandwidth to customers. Basically it's ATM vc's from us RH>> to their ATM switch which interworks it to a Frame circuit that the RH>> end user sees on the usual T1. That is of course a completely separate RH>> DS3 than what we are looking at buying. But the circuits provisioned off RH>> that are Routed not bridged, and all5snap, and vbr. RH> RH>Okay, one point in favor of using FreeBSD for the ATM endpoint :-) RH> RH>> It would also almost certainly be a single VC on the DS3. RH>> RH>> DSL egress in this market, by contrast, is all Bridged, both with Verizon RH>> and Qwest. (we have both those ilecs here, ugh) They both use vbr and RH>> aal5mux. RH> RH>One other possibility that comes to mind is that if they want to used RH>bridged, you could get a (cheap) Newbridge Orange Ridge, which has an OC3 RH>and 12 10/100 ethernet ports. Forget about LANE and MPOA, just configure RH>a static PVC. It's been years since I have configured an Orange Ridge, RH>but I think that _should_ work. RH> RH>> I have another question for you guys,- if I am using routed/vbr is there any RH>> benefit to using a forerunner he155 and the fatm() driver as opposed to RH>> a Fore LE155 with the idt() driver? RH> RH>I know next to nothing about the HE155, but I can say that the LE155 is a RH>pretty good card. The driver is capable of CBR and a pseudo-VBR as well RH>as UBR, at least when given the proper traffic setup parameters. HARP RH>does not set these parameters, but you could force arbitrary PCR and SCR RH>in the function idt_instvcc() if you wanted. I think it would be trivial RH>to add a sysctl (like " hw.idt.next_pcr") to assign a PCR to the next VC RH>created. The HE155 can do up to 4k CBR and ABR connections. It can send 150kpts per second (the HE622 should do 300kpts). It has no VBR. The LE155 on the other hand can do CBR (also on a lot of connections, and, as Richard says a couple of VBR connections (2 I think). RH>> Also, what exactly is the difference RH>> between a Fore LE155 and a Fore PCA-200 (which uses the hfa() driver I RH>> understand)? RH> RH>The PCA200 has its own processor and firmware, and in my opinion it is not RH>nearly as flexible as the LE155. I do not believe that it can handle CBR RH>or VBR, just UBR. With the 4.X.Y firmware it can shape at least one CBR channel. Someone told me that it can do actually four of them, but I had no time to verify this. It's flexibility is in the possibility to load your own firmware (like Vince did), but I was never able to get access to the firmware interface specificiation. RH>> Has anyone worked with the Ascend/Lucent/Avaya PSAX gear, like the PSAX RH>> 100? Is that an ATM switch that could run a VC from one interface to RH>> another? The documentation on Avaya's site is very unclear plus the PSAX RH>> 100 has been long discontinued. But because of that they appear to be RH>> rediculously cheap on the secondary market. RH> RH>It has been about five years since I have configured the SA100, but I did RH>have a pair set up for ether-ATM-ether bridging. I don't think it can RH>handle routed encapsulation, though. In my opinion (!), Ascend people RH>knew almost nothing about the unit after aquiring it from Sahara, and I RH>bet the Lucent people know even less than nothing, unless they still have RH>some ex-Sahara employees on board. I have an "almost working" SA100 with RH>10/100 ports you can have for spare parts if you want, but even for free I RH>don't know that you would be getting a good deal... RH> RH>One other possibility for bridged PDUs might be a Fore ES3810 with an OC3 RH>on the top and a 10/100 card. You could configure a PVC to one or more of RH>the ether ports pretty easily. This should also be fairly cheap on ebay. RH> RH>All the best, RH> RH>-Richard RH> RH> RH> From owner-freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 6 07:07:53 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1F3F16A4CF for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:07:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from n33.kp.t-systems-sfr.com (n33.kp.t-systems-sfr.com [129.247.16.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0405143D2F for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:07:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from harti@freebsd.org) Received: from n81.sp.op.dlr.de (n81g.sp.op.dlr.de [129.247.163.1]) i8677Y2261044; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:07:34 +0200 Received: from zeus.nt.op.dlr.de (zeus.nt.op.dlr.de [129.247.173.3]) i8677XI51774; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:07:33 +0200 Received: from beagle.kn.op.dlr.de (opkndnwsbsd178 [129.247.173.178]) by zeus.nt.op.dlr.de (8.11.7+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8677We18279; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:07:33 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:07:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Harti Brandt X-X-Sender: brandt@beagle.kn.op.dlr.de To: Ted Mittelstaedt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040906090324.A16723@beagle.kn.op.dlr.de> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Question on ATM w/ FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Harti Brandt List-Id: ATM for FreeBSD! List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 07:07:54 -0000 On Sat, 4 Sep 2004, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: TM>> If your card does not support VPI 1, you need a small ATM switch to move TM>> ATM PVCs from one VPI to another. Fore ASX-200BX is excellent small and TM>> cheap switch. TM>> TM> TM>Are any of the cards mentioned - Fore LE155, PCA-200, HE155, not support TM>VCI 1? ^^^ VPI probably? The HE155 has a configurable VPI/VCI space of 12 bits that you can split between VPI and VCI. Per default the driver uses 2 VPI bits and 10 VCI bits. The PCA-200 definitely can do only VPI 0. For the LE155 I don't remember. harti TM>> > My suspicion is that it's going to end up being Routed. The reason why TM>> > is that we are already using a different group within this carrier to TM>> > provide Frame Relay to customers -ie: we buy Frame circuits from their TM>> > network to supply bandwidth to customers. Basically it's ATM vc's from TM>> > us to their ATM switch which interworks it to a Frame circuit that the TM>> > end user sees on the usual T1. That is of course a completely separate TM>> > DS3 than what we are looking at buying. But the circuits provisioned TM>> > off that are Routed not bridged, and all5snap, and vbr. TM>> > TM>> > It would also almost certainly be a single VC on the DS3. TM>> > TM>> > DSL egress in this market, by contrast, is all Bridged, both TM>> with Verizon TM>> > and Qwest. (we have both those ilecs here, ugh) They both use vbr and TM>> > aal5mux. TM>> > TM>> > I have another question for you guys,- if I am using routed/vbr TM>> is there any TM>> > benefit to using a forerunner he155 and the fatm() driver as opposed to TM>> > a Fore LE155 with the idt() driver? Also, what exactly is the TM>> difference TM>> > between a Fore LE155 and a Fore PCA-200 (which uses the hfa() driver I TM>> > understand)? TM>> > TM>> > You are right in there being no cheap IDT77252 cards out there. I don't TM>> > have $2-3K on this project to throw into atm pci cards. :-( TM>> No real need to get HE vs LE. I am doing all of this on linux on LE TM>> card... TM>> TM>> > Has anyone worked with the Ascend/Lucent/Avaya PSAX gear, like the PSAX TM>> > 100? Is that an ATM switch that could run a VC from one interface to TM>> > another? The documentation on Avaya's site is very unclear plus the PSAX TM>> > 100 has been long discontinued. But because of that they appear to be TM>> > rediculously cheap on the secondary market. TM>> Like I said, take ASX200BX - it is still supported. TM>> TM> TM>The switch chassis themselves are cheap enough on Ebay. But where you run TM>into trouble is the DS3 cards for them usually aren't included with the TM>switches, and are a lot harder to find secondhand. Not impossible, though, TM>but rarer. TM> TM>And I don't much care about the supported/unsupported aspect of the TM>equipment TM>I use anyway. I'm the first line of support here. And the user community TM>like the mailing list here, is the second line. And it doesen't make a TM>lot of sense to spend $2K a year on a support contract with Cisco for a TM>used 7206 that you bought off Ebay. For starters you don't get hardware TM>support anyway, and secondly, I've used Cisco support enough times in the TM>past to know that they aren't much good for the truly knotty problems. If TM>we are buying used Fore switches/atm cards/ etc. I am not expecting any more TM>support than a copy of the user manual. Remember this is all going into TM>a FreeBSD router that will be running BGP, so I'm already on my own for TM>support there, anyway. TM> TM>The Lucent PSAX gear I've seen on the secondary market, some of it is TM>going for under $100. Compared to a used Fore ASX200BX at $800+, to me that TM>is worth screwing with it - that is, if anyone can possibly confirm that TM>the PSAX even is an ATM switch. TM> TM>Call Cisco support sometime and ask them why your 7206 running 12.0.7T TM>IOS reboots about once a month or so. That's support for you. TM> TM>Ted TM> TM>> > TM>> -alex TM>> TM>> TM> TM>_______________________________________________ TM>freebsd-atm@freebsd.org mailing list TM>http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-atm TM>To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-atm-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" TM> TM> TM> From owner-freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 6 16:13:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0599E16A4CE; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 16:13:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.cheapline.net (mail.cheapline.net [65.160.120.246]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DBBD43D4C; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 16:13:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rh@matriplex.com) Received: from ts7-mail.matriplex.com (ts7-mail.matriplex.com [192.168.99.2]) by mail.cheapline.net (8.12.8p1/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i86GDAOR034469; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:13:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rh@matriplex.com) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:13:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Hodges X-X-Sender: rh@mail.cheapline.net To: Harti Brandt In-Reply-To: <20040906090324.A16723@beagle.kn.op.dlr.de> Message-ID: <20040906085243.A31206@mail.cheapline.net> References: <20040906090324.A16723@beagle.kn.op.dlr.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Question on ATM w/ FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: ATM for FreeBSD! List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 16:13:14 -0000 On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, Harti Brandt wrote: > On Sat, 4 Sep 2004, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > TM>> If your card does not support VPI 1, you need a small ATM switch to move > TM>> ATM PVCs from one VPI to another. Fore ASX-200BX is excellent small and > TM>> cheap switch. > TM>> > TM> > TM>Are any of the cards mentioned - Fore LE155, PCA-200, HE155, not support > TM>VCI 1? > ^^^ VPI probably? > > The HE155 has a configurable VPI/VCI space of 12 bits that you can split > between VPI and VCI. Per default the driver uses 2 VPI bits and 10 VCI bits. > > The PCA-200 definitely can do only VPI 0. > > For the LE155 I don't remember. The LE155 can split the bits 0+12, 1+11, or 2+10, but the driver defaults to 0+12 (VPI=0, VCI=0-4095). Since there will be an ATM switch anyway for the DS3-OC3, this should not be an issue. Incidentally, the LE155 does not have a limit on the VPI/VCI combinations for the transmit side, just the SAR on the receive. So if RX traffic is light and/or you don't mind spending CPU cycles doing SAR in software, you could make a driver that had no VPI/VCI limits. At one time, I was thinking about doing this for an ATM/DSL access router. > TM>The Lucent PSAX gear I've seen on the secondary market, some of it is > TM>going for under $100. Compared to a used Fore ASX200BX at $800+, to me that > TM>is worth screwing with it - that is, if anyone can possibly confirm that > TM>the PSAX even is an ATM switch. I would definitely recommend the Fore switch over the SA100 (PSAX100). The modules and spares will be a lot easier to find for the Fore. Unless you really want the dual power supplies of the ASX-200BX, you can get the same switch cheaper by putting the SCP-ASXHA CPU board in the ASX-200WG. In a setting with no SVCs, I don't see any need to upgrade the CPU though. For that matter, the older and larger ASX-200 switches would be just fine, and you can probably buy them all day long for under $100 on ebay. Just be sure to get a spare, as the hard drive won't last forever. (It's a 2.5" SCSI, and a bit hard to find. Old Mac powerbooks are one source.) All the best, -Richard