From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 10 11:45:32 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CE9E16A4CE for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:45:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ww2.newmediaplan.net (newmediaplan.net [217.22.246.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 03DE543D1F for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:45:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rs@newmediaplan.it) Received: (qmail 11734 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2004 10:59:53 -0000 Received: from host93-22.pool80182.interbusiness.it (HELO uno) (80.182.22.93) by 217.22.246.120 with SMTP; 9 Jun 2004 10:59:53 -0000 From: "ROBERTO SIANO" To: Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:48:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcROD0MNTkYZo1A4SUarI+6cqsdwrw== X-Spam-Status: No, hits=4.1 required=7.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Message-Id: <20040610114531.03DE543D1F@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Subject: HA cluster X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:45:32 -0000 Hi there can you suggest a good HA solution based on freeBSD servers, like the following. Load balancing TCP+UDP on virtual ip + failover on the routers. ( net ) | | | ---------- | switch | ---------- / \ / \ ---------- ---------- failover | active backup router | | router | ---------- ---------- load-balance \ / \ VIP / ---------- | switch | ---------- / \ / \ ---------- ---------- | server1 | | server2 | ---------- ---------- real servers From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 10 11:57:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8114A16A4CE for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:57:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mandarin.fruitsalad.org (pc117.net160.koping.net [81.16.160.117]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FD9C43D41 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:57:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from matt@hasta.se) Received: from [192.168.15.68] (helo=fmd) by mandarin.fruitsalad.org with smtp (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1BYOBh-00012b-BQ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:57:41 +0200 From: "Matt Douhan" To: "ROBERTO SIANO" , Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:57:38 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20040610114531.03DE543D1F@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Subject: SV: ***SPAM*** HA cluster X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:57:47 -0000 -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fran: owner-freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Hi there can you suggest a good HA solution based on freeBSD servers, like the following. Load balancing TCP+UDP on virtual ip + failover on the routers. ( net ) | | | ---------- | switch | ---------- / \ / \ ---------- ---------- failover | active backup router | | router | ---------- ---------- load-balance \ / \ VIP / ---------- | switch | ---------- / \ / \ ---------- ---------- | server1 | | server2 | ---------- ---------- real servers This solution make no real sense, why have HA servers when you do not have HA switches?, you are likely to set yourself up for disappointment is all, use seperate switches as well in order to get a real HA solution. Also in order to give more accurate answer we would need to know what applications/services you will be providing, there is a huge difference between all TCP and only wanting HTTP/HTTPS failover and so on. regards Matt From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 12:09:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A656116A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:09:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx6.internett.de (mx6.internett.de [82.192.193.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCB8043D2D for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:09:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from michael@nettmail.de) Received: from p5083638b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([80.131.99.139]:1525 helo=nettmail.de) by mx6.internett.de with asmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA:16) (Exim 4.30) id 1BYkqg-0000YF-DT; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:09:30 +0200 Message-ID: <40C9A0F6.9020700@nettmail.de> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:09:26 +0200 From: Michael User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040514 X-Accept-Language: de-DE, de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Douhan References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-internett-nett-scan-Information: Please contact nett-scan@internett.de for more information X-internett-nett-scan: Found to be clean X-internett-nett-scan-SpamCheck: cc: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org cc: ROBERTO SIANO Subject: Re: SV: ***SPAM*** HA cluster X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:09:41 -0000 Hi, look at sgcluster, i think this is the right thing for you: http://turtle.ee.ncku.edu.tw/sgcluster/ cul michael Matt Douhan wrote: >-----Ursprungligt meddelande----- >Fran: owner-freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org >Hi there >can you suggest a good HA solution based on freeBSD servers, like the >following. >Load balancing TCP+UDP on virtual ip + failover on the routers. > > > ( net ) > > | > | > | > ---------- > | switch | > ---------- > / \ > / \ > ---------- ---------- failover > | active backup > router | | router | > ---------- ---------- > load-balance \ / > \ VIP / > ---------- > | switch | > ---------- > / \ > / \ > ---------- ---------- > | server1 | | server2 | > ---------- ---------- > real servers > > > >This solution make no real sense, why have HA servers when you do not have >HA switches?, you are likely to set yourself up for disappointment is all, >use seperate switches as well in order to get a real HA solution. > >Also in order to give more accurate answer we would need to know what >applications/services you will be providing, there is a huge difference >between all TCP and only wanting HTTP/HTTPS failover and so on. > >regards > >Matt > >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-cluster >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 12:55:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5FCB16A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:55:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx6.internett.de (mx6.internett.de [82.192.193.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A37943D60 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:55:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from michael@nettmail.de) Received: from p5083638b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([80.131.99.139]:1506 helo=nettmail.de) by mx6.internett.de with asmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA:16) (Exim 4.30) id 1BYlYn-0002DK-5S; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:55:05 +0200 Message-ID: <40C9ABA6.1020306@nettmail.de> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:55:02 +0200 From: Michael User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040514 X-Accept-Language: de-DE, de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Douhan References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-internett-nett-scan-Information: Please contact nett-scan@internett.de for more information X-internett-nett-scan: Found to be clean X-internett-nett-scan-SpamCheck: cc: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org cc: ROBERTO SIANO Subject: Re: SV: ***SPAM*** HA cluster X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:55:29 -0000 Hi, if turtle.ee.ncku.edu.tw seems down try: http://www.freebsd.org.hk/html/sgcluster/ cul michael Hi, look at sgcluster, i think this is the right thing for you: http://turtle.ee.ncku.edu.tw/sgcluster/ cul michael Matt Douhan wrote: >-----Ursprungligt meddelande----- >Fran: owner-freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org >Hi there >can you suggest a good HA solution based on freeBSD servers, like the >following. >Load balancing TCP+UDP on virtual ip + failover on the routers. > > > ( net ) > > | > | > | > ---------- > | switch | > ---------- > / \ > / \ > ---------- ---------- failover > | active backup > router | | router | > ---------- ---------- > load-balance \ / > \ VIP / > ---------- > | switch | > ---------- > / \ > / \ > ---------- ---------- > | server1 | | server2 | > ---------- ---------- > real servers > > > >This solution make no real sense, why have HA servers when you do not have >HA switches?, you are likely to set yourself up for disappointment is all, >use seperate switches as well in order to get a real HA solution. > >Also in order to give more accurate answer we would need to know what >applications/services you will be providing, there is a huge difference >between all TCP and only wanting HTTP/HTTPS failover and so on. > >regards > >Matt > >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-cluster >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 13:36:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AE9016A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:36:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web41503.mail.yahoo.com (web41503.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.86]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 84C3E43D46 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:36:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asporner@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040611133551.98071.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.131.178.57] by web41503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 06:35:51 PDT Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 06:35:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Andy Sporner To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <40C9ABA6.1020306@nettmail.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: SV: ***SPAM*** HA cluster X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:36:03 -0000 Hi, I have said this many times here. I have such software available and this has been available for some time in this forum. I wish people would just read the past posts about this and support projects that were grounded in the FREEBSD world. I think at this point I will just remove my software from general distribution if this is going to be the way that support is going to be given... Regards Andrew Sporner author bsd clustering initiative since 1997 http://www.sporner.com/freebsdclusters --- Michael wrote: > Hi, > > if turtle.ee.ncku.edu.tw seems down try: > > http://www.freebsd.org.hk/html/sgcluster/ > > cul > michael > > Hi, > > look at sgcluster, i think this is the right thing for you: > > http://turtle.ee.ncku.edu.tw/sgcluster/ > > cul > > michael > > Matt Douhan wrote: > > >-----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > >Fran: owner-freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org > >Hi there > >can you suggest a good HA solution based on freeBSD servers, like the > >following. > >Load balancing TCP+UDP on virtual ip + failover on the routers. > > > > > > ( net ) > > > > | > > | > > | > > ---------- > > | switch | > > ---------- > > / \ > > / \ > > ---------- ---------- failover > > | active backup > > router | | router | > > ---------- ---------- > > load-balance \ / > > \ VIP / > > ---------- > > | switch | > > ---------- > > / \ > > / \ > > ---------- ---------- > > | server1 | | server2 | > > ---------- ---------- > > real servers > > > > > > > >This solution make no real sense, why have HA servers when you do not have > >HA switches?, you are likely to set yourself up for disappointment is all, > >use seperate switches as well in order to get a real HA solution. > > > >Also in order to give more accurate answer we would need to know what > >applications/services you will be providing, there is a huge difference > >between all TCP and only wanting HTTP/HTTPS failover and so on. > > > >regards > > > >Matt > > > >_______________________________________________ > >freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org mailing list > >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-cluster > >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-cluster > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"ebsd-cluster > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 13:47:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02B7516A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:47:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71C8343D1F for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:47:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from [10.177.171.220] (neutrino.centtech.com [10.177.171.220]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i5BDlFE8054751; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:47:15 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <40C9B7D8.108@centtech.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:47:04 -0500 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040520) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Sporner References: <20040611133551.98071.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040611133551.98071.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SV: ***SPAM*** HA cluster X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:47:17 -0000 Andy Sporner wrote: >Hi, > >I have said this many times here. I have such software >available and this has been available for some time in >this forum. I wish people would just read the past posts >about this and support projects that were grounded in >the FREEBSD world. > >I think at this point I will just remove my software >from general distribution if this is going to be the >way that support is going to be given... > I agree with you about the reading past posts, etc.. People should learn to use google these days.. On the other hand, pulling your software would be more of a detriment to the community than people asking previously answered questions on the lists.. I know I've played with your tools, and many people rely on them. Keep up the good work.. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Sr. Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 14:17:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C4A116A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:17:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from freebsdcluster.org (freebsdcluster.dk [195.184.98.178]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22A9B43D49 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:17:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lasse@freebsdcluster.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebsdcluster.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BDA2244D16; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:17:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from freebsdcluster.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (freebsdcluster.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 92799-05; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:17:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: by freebsdcluster.org (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 55EDB244CFD; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:17:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from athena.ntt.co.uk (athena.ntt.co.uk [212.119.4.243]) by www.freebsdcluster.org (IMP) with HTTP for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:17:12 +0100 Message-ID: <1086963432.40c9bee827fe1@www.freebsdcluster.org> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:17:12 +0100 From: "Lasse L. Johnsen" To: Andy Sporner References: <20040611133551.98071.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040611133551.98071.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at freebsdcluster.org cc: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SV: ***SPAM*** HA cluster X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:17:30 -0000 Andy, Andy, Andy..... May I put a link at www.freebsdcluster.[org|net|com] to your site? Perhaps this will increase awareness? -- Best Regards, Lasse L. Johnsen FreeBSDCluster.org - an International Community */ PGP-key available upon request /* Quoting Andy Sporner : > Hi, > > I have said this many times here. I have such software > available and this has been available for some time in > this forum. I wish people would just read the past posts > about this and support projects that were grounded in > the FREEBSD world. > > I think at this point I will just remove my software > from general distribution if this is going to be the > way that support is going to be given... > > Regards > > > Andrew Sporner > author bsd clustering initiative since 1997 > http://www.sporner.com/freebsdclusters > > > --- Michael wrote: > > Hi, > > > > if turtle.ee.ncku.edu.tw seems down try: > > > > http://www.freebsd.org.hk/html/sgcluster/ > > > > cul > > michael > > > > Hi, > > > > look at sgcluster, i think this is the right thing for you: > > > > http://turtle.ee.ncku.edu.tw/sgcluster/ > > > > cul > > > > michael > > > > Matt Douhan wrote: > > > > >-----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > > >Fran: owner-freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org > > >Hi there > > >can you suggest a good HA solution based on freeBSD servers, like the > > >following. > > >Load balancing TCP+UDP on virtual ip + failover on the routers. > > > > > > > > > ( net ) > > > > > > | > > > | > > > | > > > ---------- > > > | switch | > > > ---------- > > > / \ > > > / \ > > > ---------- ---------- failover > > > | active backup > > > router | | router | > > > ---------- ---------- > > > load-balance \ / > > > \ VIP / > > > ---------- > > > | switch | > > > ---------- > > > / \ > > > / \ > > > ---------- ---------- > > > | server1 | | server2 | > > > ---------- ---------- > > > real servers > > > > > > > > > > > >This solution make no real sense, why have HA servers when you do not > have > > >HA switches?, you are likely to set yourself up for disappointment is > all, > > >use seperate switches as well in order to get a real HA solution. > > > > > >Also in order to give more accurate answer we would need to know what > > >applications/services you will be providing, there is a huge difference > > >between all TCP and only wanting HTTP/HTTPS failover and so on. > > > > > >regards > > > > > >Matt > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org mailing list > > >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-cluster > > >To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-cluster > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"ebsd-cluster > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-cluster > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 14:23:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F89216A4D0 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:23:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web41504.mail.yahoo.com (web41504.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4DA8F43D49 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:23:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asporner@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040611142259.48839.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.131.178.57] by web41504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:22:59 PDT Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:22:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Andy Sporner To: "Lasse L. Johnsen" In-Reply-To: <1086963432.40c9bee827fe1@www.freebsdcluster.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SV: ***SPAM*** HA cluster X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:23:01 -0000 hi, If you think this would help, yes. But I have come to the conclusion that this is in fact pointless. I got one reply after my first post that said: "Good idea.." to remove my software. So be it! I don't need the kind of BULLSH*T that such people offer. As to contributing to the community--if there actually was one I can put faith in it, but since there seems not to be and this is not the first time I have had to write such language, I don't believe. Sad too, because I had a release that is nearing completion that some people on this list have already been playing with that would have encompassed all of the needs as this other offering would have done. So let this be a lesson. I will put my efforts towards a commercial offering (this includes FREP and later filesystem triggers stuff) where I can be assured satisfaction by the money I will make rather than the lack of respect so far that I have recieved for all the efforts. Have fun with what you have now.... Regards Andy --- "Lasse L. Johnsen" wrote: > Andy, Andy, Andy..... > > May I put a link at www.freebsdcluster.[org|net|com] to your site? > > Perhaps this will increase awareness? > > -- > Best Regards, > Lasse L. Johnsen > FreeBSDCluster.org - an International Community > > */ PGP-key available upon request /* > > Quoting Andy Sporner : > > > Hi, > > > > I have said this many times here. I have such software > > available and this has been available for some time in > > this forum. I wish people would just read the past posts > > about this and support projects that were grounded in > > the FREEBSD world. > > > > I think at this point I will just remove my software > > from general distribution if this is going to be the > > way that support is going to be given... > > > > Regards > > > > > > Andrew Sporner > > author bsd clustering initiative since 1997 > > http://www.sporner.com/freebsdclusters > > > > > > --- Michael wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > if turtle.ee.ncku.edu.tw seems down try: > > > > > > http://www.freebsd.org.hk/html/sgcluster/ > > > > > > cul > > > michael > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > look at sgcluster, i think this is the right thing for you: > > > > > > http://turtle.ee.ncku.edu.tw/sgcluster/ > > > > > > cul > > > > > > michael > > > > > > Matt Douhan wrote: > > > > > > >-----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > > > >Fran: owner-freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org > > > >Hi there > > > >can you suggest a good HA solution based on freeBSD servers, like the > > > >following. > > > >Load balancing TCP+UDP on virtual ip + failover on the routers. > > > > > > > > > > > > ( net ) > > > > > > > > | > > > > | > > > > | > > > > ---------- > > > > | switch | > > > > ---------- > > > > / \ > > > > / \ > > > > ---------- ---------- failover > > > > | active backup > > > > router | | router | > > > > ---------- ---------- > > > > load-balance \ / > > > > \ VIP / > > > > ---------- > > > > | switch | > > > > ---------- > > > > / \ > > > > / \ > > > > ---------- ---------- > > > > | server1 | | server2 | > > > > ---------- ---------- > > > > real servers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >This solution make no real sense, why have HA servers when you do not > > have > > > >HA switches?, you are likely to set yourself up for disappointment is > > all, > > > >use seperate switches as well in order to get a real HA solution. > > > > > > > >Also in order to give more accurate answer we would need to know what > > > >applications/services you will be providing, there is a huge difference > > > >between all TCP and only wanting HTTP/HTTPS failover and so on. > > > > > > > >regards > > > > > > > >Matt > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org mailing list > > > >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-cluster > > > >To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org mailing list > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-cluster > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > > "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"ebsd-cluster > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-cluster > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 14:39:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11A1516A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:39:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from freebsdcluster.org (freebsdcluster.dk [195.184.98.178]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ECE343D31 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:39:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lasse@freebsdcluster.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebsdcluster.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6059244CD3; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:37:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from freebsdcluster.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (freebsdcluster.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 93201-09; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:37:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: by freebsdcluster.org (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 8A16C244CB1; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:37:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from athena.ntt.co.uk (athena.ntt.co.uk [212.119.4.243]) by www.freebsdcluster.org (IMP) with HTTP for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:37:56 +0100 Message-ID: <1086964676.40c9c3c45c183@www.freebsdcluster.org> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:37:56 +0100 From: "Lasse L. Johnsen" To: Andy Sporner References: <20040611142259.48839.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040611142259.48839.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at freebsdcluster.org cc: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SV: ***SPAM*** HA cluster X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:39:05 -0000 Andy, I respect your decision. I for one have always taken a keen interest in your work. It's regrettable that you feel it necessary to take this step. Even on an exit note from the free software scene, I would urge anyone that knows about Andy's work to voice their respect for his contribution. Thank you Andy. /Lasse Quoting Andy Sporner : > hi, > > If you think this would help, yes. But I have come to the > conclusion that this is in fact pointless. I got one reply > after my first post that said: > > "Good idea.." > > to remove my software. So be it! I don't need the kind of > BULLSH*T that such people offer. > > As to contributing to the community--if there actually was one > I can put faith in it, but since there seems not to be and > this is not the first time I have had to write such language, > I don't believe. > > Sad too, because I had a release that is nearing completion that > some people on this list have already been playing with that > would have encompassed all of the needs as this other offering > would have done. > > So let this be a lesson. I will put my efforts towards a > commercial offering (this includes FREP and later filesystem > triggers stuff) where I can be assured satisfaction by the > money I will make rather than the lack of respect so far that > I have recieved for all the efforts. > > Have fun with what you have now.... > > Regards > > > > Andy > > > > > > --- "Lasse L. Johnsen" wrote: > > Andy, Andy, Andy..... > > > > May I put a link at www.freebsdcluster.[org|net|com] to your site? > > > > Perhaps this will increase awareness? > > > > -- > > Best Regards, > > Lasse L. Johnsen > > FreeBSDCluster.org - an International Community > > > > */ PGP-key available upon request /* > > > > Quoting Andy Sporner : > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I have said this many times here. I have such software > > > available and this has been available for some time in > > > this forum. I wish people would just read the past posts > > > about this and support projects that were grounded in > > > the FREEBSD world. > > > > > > I think at this point I will just remove my software > > > from general distribution if this is going to be the > > > way that support is going to be given... > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > Andrew Sporner > > > author bsd clustering initiative since 1997 > > > http://www.sporner.com/freebsdclusters > > > > > > > > > --- Michael wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > if turtle.ee.ncku.edu.tw seems down try: > > > > > > > > http://www.freebsd.org.hk/html/sgcluster/ > > > > > > > > cul > > > > michael > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > look at sgcluster, i think this is the right thing for you: > > > > > > > > http://turtle.ee.ncku.edu.tw/sgcluster/ > > > > > > > > cul > > > > > > > > michael > > > > > > > > Matt Douhan wrote: > > > > > > > > >-----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > > > > >Fran: owner-freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org > > > > >Hi there > > > > >can you suggest a good HA solution based on freeBSD servers, like the > > > > >following. > > > > >Load balancing TCP+UDP on virtual ip + failover on the routers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ( net ) > > > > > > > > > > | > > > > > | > > > > > | > > > > > ---------- > > > > > | switch | > > > > > ---------- > > > > > / \ > > > > > / \ > > > > > ---------- ---------- failover > > > > > | active backup > > > > > router | | router | > > > > > ---------- ---------- > > > > > load-balance \ / > > > > > \ VIP / > > > > > ---------- > > > > > | switch | > > > > > ---------- > > > > > / \ > > > > > / \ > > > > > ---------- ---------- > > > > > | server1 | | server2 | > > > > > ---------- ---------- > > > > > real servers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >This solution make no real sense, why have HA servers when you do not > > > have > > > > >HA switches?, you are likely to set yourself up for disappointment is > > > all, > > > > >use seperate switches as well in order to get a real HA solution. > > > > > > > > > >Also in order to give more accurate answer we would need to know what > > > > >applications/services you will be providing, there is a huge > difference > > > > >between all TCP and only wanting HTTP/HTTPS failover and so on. > > > > > > > > > >regards > > > > > > > > > >Matt > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > >freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org mailing list > > > > >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-cluster > > > > >To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > > "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org mailing list > > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-cluster > > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > > > "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"ebsd-cluster > > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > > > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org mailing list > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-cluster > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 21:34:46 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC7416A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:34:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web41509.mail.yahoo.com (web41509.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.92]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 91F2443D39 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:34:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asporner@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040611213406.73300.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.131.171.28] by web41509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:34:06 PDT Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:34:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Andy Sporner To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Leaving the group X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:34:46 -0000 Hi, I have waited to see what kind of comments would have been elicited from Lasse's suggestion and so far it has produced none. However it has produced many hits of my server. I am really not suprised considering the reply I got here from this one. --- "Samaniego, Marlon S" wrote: > Good idea ! > > > I think at this point I will just remove my software > > from general distribution if this is going to be the > > way that support is going to be given... > > > > Regards Normally I don't put someting in the public what is recieved as private, but then again since manners and respect seem to be a thing of the past here, so also is my observance. I have sought to produce software that people can use to do failover and eventually process failover. Already I have release filesystem triggers to some testers and have worked in every place I have worked on so far. I WILL NOT under any circumstances release software to an audience that has shown such a gross lack of respect that has been given to me here. It is a total disgrace and those of you who are guilty should be ashamed of yourself. You think by sitting behind a keyboard removes you from the responsibility of acting like human beings. I am sorry but I don't buy into that. If my work meant so much as to be usefull to many people as the claim has been made, then I should have seen more respect as I have done. I am not some college student that is wet behind the ears. I have been in this industry for the last 20 years and have worked on high availability for Hyatt, Walgreen Company and Network Engines and now a german company that is making a next generation load balancer (which runs Freebsd inside). I have the background and I know what I am talking about, whereas I am convinced that a large percentage are really legends in their own mind. My work is concrete and is in use, how many of you can say that! Especially this goes to the person who wrote the reply I pasted in here. I am not convinced things are really likely to change and the experience here has shown this even this afternoon. It is for this reason and this reason alone that I am now going to leave this forum. I wish in the future that more respect is given to others that are contributing to this forum. I am saddened that this has been my experience here. Regards Andy Sporner __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 22:00:09 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E7716A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:00:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 867AB43D1F for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:00:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from [10.177.171.220] (neutrino.centtech.com [10.177.171.220]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i5BLxkE8057625; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:59:46 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <40CA2B4A.8050207@centtech.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:59:38 -0500 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040520) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Sporner References: <20040611213406.73300.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040611213406.73300.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Leaving the group X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:00:09 -0000 Andy Sporner wrote: >Hi, > >I have waited to see what kind of comments would have been >elicited from Lasse's suggestion and so far it has produced >none. However it has produced many hits of my server. > >I am really not suprised considering the reply I got >here from this one. > Andy - I personally appreciate your contribution, and software. You can mark me down as "1", if you'd like.. To be fair, though, I think giving the email a few hours for people to respond is a little short - many people are not in your timezone, and are sleeping.. many are busy working, and aren't reading this list until they get home.. many people, like myself, get the mails, but skip past them to the 'work' emails, then come back to them when they get a chance.. I think maybe you were looking for a good reason to pull out and start selling your software, or maybe something else has pissed you off, I don't know. What I do know, is that if there are enough people that are interested, they'll just a tool that replaces yours, and they won't pay you for it - that's kind of how the community works. Many of us have written tools, software, patches, etc, etc, and contributed a lot to the community (which I understand you are currently feeling doesn't exist), but only rarely will anyone say "thanks".. that's unfortunately how the world is (not just this community), so you have to find your own thanks, like how many downloads there have been, or people mentioning your software on lists, etc.. If you need cash, just start a 'cluster fund' similar to others, and I'm sure you'll get something (maybe not what you could get for it if you sold it at a retail price to somebody, but then, support does cost money).. I don't know Andy, I guess I'm just a little shocked that someone as talented and ambitious as yourself would give up this easily - you seem more like the type that would just say 'f*** em if they don't know how to google and find my software' instead of 'hey, you guys never come out and play with me, so I'm not going to invite you to my birthday party'.. Anyway, thanks for the contribution that I guess nobody will be able to thank you for again.. maybe you'll change your mind before someone else writes a replacement.. Cheers, Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Sr. Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 12 00:02:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D95116A4CE for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:02:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com (mailout04.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A513943D1D for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:02:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from fwd00.aul.t-online.de by mailout04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1BYvy9-0006RD-01; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 02:01:57 +0200 Received: from Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (bHDVQmZvQelxM8C-t47YncYe3kJ4wYXCk9-LwR+yJqBIKGjulsc1ZD@[217.229.210.30]) by fmrl00.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 1BYvy1-2CNQqu0; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 02:01:49 +0200 Received: from Magellan.Leidinger.net (Magellan.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.1]) i5C025Db026346; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 02:02:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 02:03:36 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20040612020336.11af9984@Magellan.Leidinger.net> In-Reply-To: <40CA2B4A.8050207@centtech.com> References: <20040611213406.73300.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com> <40CA2B4A.8050207@centtech.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.11claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Seen: false X-ID: bHDVQmZvQelxM8C-t47YncYe3kJ4wYXCk9-LwR+yJqBIKGjulsc1ZD@t-dialin.net Subject: Re: Leaving the group X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:02:39 -0000 On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:59:38 -0500 Eric Anderson wrote: > Andy Sporner wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >I have waited to see what kind of comments would have been > >elicited from Lasse's suggestion and so far it has produced > >none. However it has produced many hits of my server. > > > >I am really not suprised considering the reply I got > >here from this one. > > > > Andy - I personally appreciate your contribution, and software. Andy, I haven't seen/used your software, but I appreciate your work too. I followed the discussion about your software here and it seemed to be a very interesting software. I wanted to wait to look at it until I have the need for such a solution, or until your software gained a feature (instant file system replication) I like to see used in a specific scenario here. At Feb 10 you talked about FREP which is very interesting (and something which I have an use for), but you talked about it as a "Proof of concept", this is something which typically doesn't get used on a production system (and the place where I would use it is a very important system, it needs stable software, not a proof of concept). Unfortunately not everybody has the time to look at interesting things if they aren't ready for production use. I think there are more people than only me which read this list and have an @freebsd.org address which waited for an official mail from you to current@ with a "Hey, I have a HA patchset here, and I think it's stable enough to get integrated into the official source." to look more closely at it. It's sad to see you in a mood where you say this will not happen. > To be fair, though, I think giving the email a few hours for people to > respond is a little short - many people are not in your timezone, and > are sleeping.. many are busy working, and aren't reading this list until > they get home.. many people, like myself, get the mails, but skip past > them to the 'work' emails, then come back to them when they get a chance.. And some people may be on holiday... > Anyway, thanks for the contribution that I guess nobody will be able to > thank you for again.. maybe you'll change your mind before someone else > writes a replacement.. Maybe we can convince him to take a break and to think a little bit about it. After a while he maybe reconsiders his decision. Bye, Alexander. -- I'm available to get hired (preferred in .lu). http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net GPG fingerprint = C518 BC70 E67F 143F BE91 3365 79E2 9C60 B006 3FE7 From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 12 01:14:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6712016A4CE for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 01:14:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F197343D31 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 01:14:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from all@biosys.net) Received: from megalomaniac.biosys.net (ool-43529b09.dyn.optonline.net [67.82.155.9]) by mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0HZ600EFO8R2KA@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:14:41 -0400 From: Allen In-reply-to: <20040611213406.73300.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: (Unverified) To: Andy Sporner , freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Message-id: <6.1.0.6.2.20040611205531.03822858@ns1.velvettooth.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.0.6 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20040611213406.73300.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Leaving the group X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 01:14:55 -0000 I suppose I'm going to play the badguy and step up now. This thread is tiresome. Andy, do whatever you wish with your work, I'm not going to be one of the people begging you to keep working and keep it Free. What I saw here was simply someone asking about HA clustering, and a simple response along the lines of "check out this website" for a website that wasn't yours, at which point you flew off the handle about people not reading the list, and not supporting "projects grounded in the freebsd world." You apparently feel slighted that a website/project other than yours was mentioned, or even exists. After seeing both links here and checking them out, I come away with the impression that you have a very new project (I know you said 1997, I'm talking impressions) and that you're the only person involved in it. The website has almost on information at all on just what your software is or what it does, scarily minimal documentation in the form of the INSTALL file, and a download link. The other project by contrast has a great deal more information, how to use it, what the goals are, and so on neatly outlined on the site. I'm not talking at all about the "pretty" factor, simply the information content, which (at least at the moment) is sorely lacking from your end. If this has not always been the case, and is being fixed soon, then this is all moot. If however this is how it's "always been", I can perfectly understand why your work may be seemingly ignored, and why it wouldn't have made a memorable impression on me even if I had seen it in the past. Right now, first impression is "Here's a patch for some version of FreeBSD, you figure out which. It's cool, try it, tell me if you like what it does." Now, all that aside, you've really, in my eyes, come off as the bad guy here. To run the risk of a great insult, you sound rather "microsoftish" in your response -- angry that your project has any competition, threatening to pull out if that competition doesn't go away. I'm as certain that this isn't the impression that you meant to give as I am that it is indeed the impression that you gave, and impressions are all that matter (other than marketing) when it comes to getting projects moving. So yeah, do whatever you like with your project. If you want to go "private" with it, that's your choice. If you want to keep it out in the open, your choice as well, but I advise something of an attitude adjustment. Competition and choice are the very heart of what the FreeBSD project is all about, and you seem to have lost sight of that. -Allen At 17:34 6/11/2004, Andy Sporner wrote: >Hi, > >I have waited to see what kind of comments would have been >elicited from Lasse's suggestion and so far it has produced >none. However it has produced many hits of my server. > >I am really not suprised considering the reply I got >here from this one. > >--- "Samaniego, Marlon S" wrote: > > Good idea ! > > > > > I think at this point I will just remove my software > > > from general distribution if this is going to be the > > > way that support is going to be given... > > > > > > Regards > >Normally I don't put someting in the public what is recieved >as private, but then again since manners and respect seem to >be a thing of the past here, so also is my observance. > >I have sought to produce software that people can use to do >failover and eventually process failover. Already I have >release filesystem triggers to some testers and have worked >in every place I have worked on so far. > >I WILL NOT under any circumstances release software to an >audience that has shown such a gross lack of respect that >has been given to me here. It is a total disgrace and those >of you who are guilty should be ashamed of yourself. You >think by sitting behind a keyboard removes you from the >responsibility of acting like human beings. I am sorry but >I don't buy into that. > >If my work meant so much as to be usefull to many people as >the claim has been made, then I should have seen more >respect as I have done. > >I am not some college student that is wet behind the ears. >I have been in this industry for the last 20 years and have >worked on high availability for Hyatt, Walgreen Company and >Network Engines and now a german company that is making a >next generation load balancer (which runs Freebsd inside). >I have the background and I know what I am talking about, >whereas I am convinced that a large percentage are really >legends in their own mind. My work is concrete and is in >use, how many of you can say that! Especially this goes >to the person who wrote the reply I pasted in here. > >I am not convinced things are really likely to change and >the experience here has shown this even this afternoon. >It is for this reason and this reason alone that I am now >going to leave this forum. > >I wish in the future that more respect is given to others >that are contributing to this forum. I am saddened that >this has been my experience here. > >Regards > > > >Andy Sporner > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-cluster >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-cluster-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 12 07:11:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 347ED16A4CE for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 07:11:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web41505.mail.yahoo.com (web41505.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 29E8743D1F for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 07:11:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asporner@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040612071152.67839.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.131.171.28] by web41505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:11:52 PDT Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:11:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Andy Sporner To: Allen , freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20040611205531.03822858@ns1.velvettooth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Leaving the group X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 07:11:52 -0000 Hello Allan, I agree with some of your points and will keep this short. I am very happy that you choose tempered language. You have my respect for this. You have made some points that I have to at least in principle to agree with. However principles are a two way street. Some replies: 1. Definately not Microsoftish! I am not that strapped for cash to privatize for this reason. It is simply a matter of motivation. Until recently when I realized how many people are using this I thought to myself, "What am I doing this for!???" No insult taken by the way--just a point of clarification. 2. Check out the NetBSD project server, I have still a low two digit number. The project started there and was moved to FreeBSD about two years ago, when my work project http://www.nitro-switch.de) also was switched to FreeBSD. 2. I am too busy building exciting new loadbalancers and routers too do this things to put the final polish on the software. the basic stuff just works. I have asked NUMEROUS times for help to finish it. When I was in college there was plenty of time for this but the working (and social) world makes other demands. This other project seems to be a school project. There is nothing wrong with that--it's just that they typically have many more resources that can be used. > What I saw here was simply someone asking about HA clustering, and a simple > response along the lines of "check out this website" for a website that > wasn't yours, at which point you flew off the handle about people not > reading the list, and not supporting "projects grounded in the freebsd > world." You apparently feel slighted that a website/project other than > yours was mentioned, or even exists. I Flew off the handle because this is not the first time, but about the 4th or 5th time. > After seeing both links here and checking them out, I come away with the > impression that you have a very new project (I know you said 1997, I'm > talking impressions) and that you're the only person involved in it. People always speak of "community" but never really practice it. I lived in a real community (http://www.procopious.org) While certainly this is not a religious group there are certain tenets that are very applicable here that just are not present! I see instead much evidence of social darwinism, which is the antithesis of good community. If it's all about survival of the fittest--I will take a pass. So far the people who are using the software have had no problems (evidently) with it and so the documentation was enough. I admit it lacks what it should have but it's all about time and volunteers. I agree documentation is sorely lacking, but I can't do both. I never said this was a closed project... > If this has not always been the case, and is being fixed soon, then this is > all moot. If however this is how it's "always been", I can perfectly > understand why your work may be seemingly ignored, and why it wouldn't have > made a memorable impression on me even if I had seen it in the past. Right > now, first impression is "Here's a patch for some version of FreeBSD, you > figure out which. It's cool, try it, tell me if you like what it does." To date several people have have stepped up to held on this documentation because I simply have no time for this, I am still waiting. As I said, a student project will always win in cases like this. Until now I have never heard from you. If you waited so long, than why didn't you say something??? How much could a paragraph worth of email could have cost--considering how much time I have so far wrapped up in this project??? I am not moved by money here--but a little satisfaction or constructive criticism when it would have been helpful would have been nice. > > Now, all that aside, you've really, in my eyes, come off as the bad guy > here. To run the risk of a great insult, you sound rather "microsoftish" > in your response -- angry that your project has any competition, Certainly not, I was simply angry because after all the work I did and all the times in THIS GROUP I have made mention of it that at least it was not in the list of things to try--I was very dissappointed > > Competition and choice are the very heart of what the FreeBSD project is > all about, and you seem to have lost sight of that. > I also lost sight of where "people helping people" have gone to as well. Not just b-tching when something doesn't fit their fancy or nobody ever bothers to ask questions before making a decision. This all smacks of what is wrong with the world today. It's all about fast food, instant gratification and more more more--without the social expenses. Community??? Really.... I really laugh sometimes. People have borrowed the word "Community" from the Linux folks, but people here (not necessarily in this group) complain about linux. I know I have at times and I still think for good reason. But they have one thing right. THey have, "The Linux Router Project", or "The linux hi-availability project" ad nasuem... I thought since I was so far the first to step up to this that this was the "FreeBSD HA project" but I was sorely mistaken evidently. However, this exchange has given enough merit to continue perhaps a little more effort here. I won't put times into the schedule because everytime I do I end up putting my foot in my mouth. I am one person who has a very heavy work schedule outside of this. The Nitro-switch contains a driver that is more than 50,000 lines of code, of which I have done almost half not withstanding that I did the major design of the device--including the high availablity, which is based on the software I offered here. Stay tuned... Andy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 12 08:12:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CDBE16A4CE for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 08:12:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.69]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CBDD43D1D for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 08:12:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from all@biosys.net) Received: from megalomaniac.biosys.net (ool-43529b09.dyn.optonline.net [67.82.155.9]) by mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0HZ600D5TS2MI6@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 04:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 04:11:44 -0400 From: Allen In-reply-to: <20040612071152.67839.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: (Unverified) To: Andy Sporner , freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Message-id: <6.1.0.6.2.20040612033104.035486d8@ns1.velvettooth.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.0.6 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040611205531.03822858@ns1.velvettooth.net> <20040612071152.67839.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Leaving the group X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 08:12:08 -0000 Still CCing you because you said you were leaving the list.. I don't know if you did or not. Pardon the chopping, between both messages this is too long, imho, to quote in its entirety. I'll just touch on some points. At 03:11 6/12/2004, Andy Sporner wrote: > 1. Definately not Microsoftish! I am not that strapped for cash > to privatize for this reason. It is simply a matter of motivation. > Until recently when I realized how many people are using this > I thought to myself, "What am I doing this for!???" No insult > taken by the way--just a point of clarification. I didn't intend the 'microsoftish' comment as meaning you were chasing after money, but to bring the spirit of competition into light. > 2. Check out the NetBSD project server, I have still a low two I don't know what you mean by the "netbsd project server." For point 3, I totally understand. We all have time constraints. > > world." You apparently feel slighted that a website/project other than > > yours was mentioned, or even exists. > > I Flew off the handle because this is not the first time, but > about the 4th or 5th time. Honestly I still don't see that as a good reason. It is, honestly, up to you to promote your project. That means it's up to you to reply to questions like the one asked, even if just to say "check this one out also." There was no call for any kind of anger or indignity. > If it's all about survival of the fittest--I will take a pass. The link you provided to the "not religious community" didn't work, so I can't pass judgement. ;) In my opinion, it is about a sort of darwinism, to be honest. Problems crop up, different solutions emerge, and then those solutions either evolve or die. Sometimes the class of solutions are all close to equal, functionally, but solve things in a different way, or have different core goals. This is true of net/open/free flavors of BSD, as well as smaller projects such as postgres/sendmail/qmail. The goal of open software is constant evolution towards some ideal, different project leaders have different ideas about what the ideal is, so multiple projects that are the same on the surface go forward simultaneously. However, less strong projects will not survive just because a lot of effort was put into them -- they have to actually provide some kind of value. Again, I don't know exactly what your HA patches do, nor what how the competition works, so don't think I'm making a statement here about your project -- just a general observation. > So far the people who are using the software have had no problems > (evidently) with it and so the documentation was enough. I admit > it lacks what it should have but it's all about time and volunteers. > > I agree documentation is sorely lacking, but I can't do both. > I never said this was a closed project... No, but it's still "your" project. You have to pick up the slack where it happens, but more importantly, you have to generate interest -- not just in using it, but in working on it. Plenty of people on the mailing lists are, like me, more sysadmins than coders. Just because people see your project on this list, or even if they're using it, doesn't mean they have the time or skill to help with developing it. Something like -hackers would be a better place to start soliciting for volunteers to help you with your project if you don't have the time. That's where the coders hang out. > Until now I have never heard from you. If you waited so long, > than why didn't you say something??? How much could a paragraph > worth of email could have cost--considering how much time I have > so far wrapped up in this project??? I don't understand your questions. I meant that I was going to write "before this" meaning, I was going to respond to you on the list right after I saw your first post regarding this thread, the one where you said : >I think at this point I will just remove my software >from general distribution if this is going to be the >way that support is going to be given... Before that post, I'd never heard of your project, or at the very least I don't remember seeing anything about it, and I've been using FreeBSD since 1995. > I am not moved by money here--but a little satisfaction or > constructive criticism when it would have been helpful would have > been nice. Well now you have some of the latter at least. ;) Expand the website a bit. Add at the very least a description of just what your project is *for*, how it works in a general sense, system requirements, etc. Also change the links so that the whole word is in the anchor tag, not just the "+" symbol. It took me a good 45 seconds just staring at the page wondering if there was anything to click on because the "+" symbols are very small, and almost the same color as the background they're on. > Certainly not, I was simply angry because after all the work I > did and all the times in THIS GROUP I have made mention of it > that at least it was not in the list of things to try--I was > very dissappointed There was no list, just one post, one suggestion from someone. I will never understand your anger about this, and it's simply not possible for you to justify it to me. You should've just spoken up and said "you can try this as well" the same as the first person responding did. If you had been the first person to respond to the question, would you have mentioned the other project, or only your own? Would the other project members have a right to get angry at you for not mentioning *their* project? Look at it from all sides and you'll see your anger is completely unjustified on many levels. > I also lost sight of where "people helping people" have gone to as > well. Not just b-tching when something doesn't fit their fancy or > nobody ever bothers to ask questions before making a decision. This > all smacks of what is wrong with the world today. It's all about > fast food, instant gratification and more more more--without the > social expenses. Community??? Really.... Honestly, this little paragraph is almost enough to make *me* angry. First, someone had a question, and the first person do respond *did* help. It was people helping people. Second, when that post didn't fit *your* fancy, *you* started bitching. Third, someone did ask a question before making a decision : that is exactly what started this entire thread, someone asking a question. Seriously. Take a long hard look at the thread, start to finish, and rethink this entire paragraph. >I really laugh sometimes. People have borrowed the word "Community" >from the Linux folks, but people here (not necessarily in this group) >complain about linux. I know I have at times and I still think for >good reason. But they have one thing right. THey have, "The Linux >Router Project", or "The linux hi-availability project" ad nasuem... > >I thought since I was so far the first to step up to this that this >was the "FreeBSD HA project" but I was sorely mistaken evidently. I'll agree with you here. FreeBSD has no such heirarchy unless it's within "the project." When something is good, mature, and getting a lot of positive feedback, there is a chance it will be rolled into the official sources and become part of the system. That is how the project and the community works. They're just as overworked as you are, they don't have the time or people to spend starting an entirely new project to provide HA (or even just simpler forms) clustering. So, someone starts a project. Several people start several projects. Eventually one, or maybe even both, will possibly be rolled into the base system. If not, you can always make it available as a port in the collection. Personally, I very much like it this way in comparison to "the linux way." I *like* the idea that there is *no* project called, officially, "the freebsd xyz project" because that implies endorsement and support of the core team. Linux *has* no "core team" and thus no such problem. 50 projects could call themselves "the linux clustering project" if they wanted and nobody could say anything about it, and indeed, it would be survival of the fittest. Though, in fact, it would probably follow the linux development and adoption phase, which is not at all survival of the fittest, but instead, survival of the most popular. >Stay tuned... I intend to, it's why I'm on the list. Mostly lurking and watching for HA clustering efforts to evaluate. It's one area where windows (and other commercial projects) have a large advantage, even if as is the case in windows, it only works with a maximum of two machines per cluster. I for one would love a true HA clustering solution for FreeBSD, with a shared SCSI bus, etc, so I could build five little machines to use as the db server for $1000 each instead of one big machine costing over $5,000. -Allen A lowly *nix sysadmin and windows coding guru with a mere 9 years professional experience. From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 12 09:14:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89D5716A4CE for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 09:14:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from regina.plastikos.com (216-107-106-250.wan.networktel.net [216.107.106.250]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0196443D41 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 09:14:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-19-150-219.jan.bellsouth.net [68.19.150.219]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by regina.plastikos.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FEDA6EEB9; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 05:13:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 2301420F22; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 04:13:35 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 04:13:34 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Andy Sporner Message-ID: <20040612091334.GY15566@over-yonder.net> References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040611205531.03822858@ns1.velvettooth.net> <20040612071152.67839.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040612071152.67839.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i-fullermd.2 cc: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Leaving the group X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 09:14:00 -0000 [ To cheerfully jump into a conversation I have no business in, and ] [ to which I'm going to contribute practically nothing substantial. ] On Sat, Jun 12, 2004 at 12:11:52AM -0700 I heard the voice of Andy Sporner, and lo! it spake thus: > > I thought since I was so far the first to step up to this that this > was the "FreeBSD HA project" but I was sorely mistaken evidently. > > However, this exchange has given enough merit to continue perhaps a > little more effort here. I won't put times into the schedule > because everytime I do I end up putting my foot in my mouth. It's been my impression that freebsd-cluster is at that wonderful point of non-critical--mass, where there's JUUUST enough people to get a surge of momentum going to inspire somebody to start something... but not enough to still be there when they get it done. Which makes it awful tough to do anything, while also making it almost implausible to do nothing. You might say there's a little problem there. This, of course, is only made worse by the nebulosity[0] of the word "cluster". You've got the HA-hot-failover crowd on the couch here, the scalability-load-balancing clique in that corner over there, and the high-volume-parallel-processing mob fiddling with their slide rules by the bar. That splits the mass multiple ways, as well as opening such wonderful fields for argument over "what we need to make a clustering software package". It's too big a problem to attach as a whole (even if we could agree on what the whole is). And it's twisted and incestuous enough to make it awful difficult to do piecemeal. And if you DO do it piecemeal, it's that much harder to get people to adopt, for a number of reasons that can be debated endlessly. I think part of the problem with adoption is the "who's gonna adopt it" sidetrack. Most people either don't need it, or need it working now. Those (like me) who don't need it, wouldn't really have any idea what to do with it if it landed in our laps with full instructions and an endless supply of Hershey bars. Those who DO need it need it NOW, and spending time "trying out" stuff tends to be harder to come by. This contributes to the problem above, where there's a fairly steady trickle of demand for products, but when the products arrive with "this covers 80% of the cases for me, let's get the rest!" the wave of people asking for it never seem to grab it. I don't know how to solve any of the problems, though :-( -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 12 11:45:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDE1216A4CE for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:45:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail023.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail023.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1339543D53 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:45:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Peter.Ross@alumni.tu-berlin.de) Received: from guckloch.zuhause (winax24-036.dialup.optusnet.com.au [211.29.117.36])i5CBisj08746; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 21:44:57 +1000 Received: from guckloch.zuhause (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by guckloch.zuhause (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i5CBjrp0001224; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 21:45:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from Peter.Ross@alumni.tu-berlin.de) Received: from localhost (petros@localhost)i5CBjqQB001221; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 21:45:52 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from Peter.Ross@alumni.tu-berlin.de) X-Authentication-Warning: guckloch.zuhause: petros owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 21:45:52 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Ross X-X-Sender: petros@guckloch.zuhause To: ROBERTO SIANO In-Reply-To: <20040610114531.03DE543D1F@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <20040612213752.G651@guckloch.zuhause> References: <20040610114531.03DE543D1F@mx1.FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HA cluster X-BeenThere: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Clustering FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:45:19 -0000 On Wed, 9 Jun 2004, ROBERTO SIANO wrote: > > ( net ) > > | > | > | > ---------- > | switch | > ---------- > / \ > / \ > ---------- ---------- failover > | active backup > router | | router | > ---------- ---------- > load-balance \ / > \ VIP / > ---------- > | switch | > ---------- This part can be solved using VRRP. > / \ > / \ > ---------- ---------- > | server1 | | server2 | > ---------- ---------- > real servers > This depends on the functionality, what kind of data the servers use, whether there is a database involved etc. BTW: Your scenario has two switches as a single point of failure.. Replicate them too if possible (You may use only two of them if you decide two separate the "two ways" and combine before and after router switch by using VLAN). Regards Peter