From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:27 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5212E16A42F; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ED3443E37; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 823A25DCAC; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A7E5C913 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:27:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAAEC56FEC; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:27:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49EED16A53E; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:26:55 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B59916A4CE; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:26:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B71043D1F; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:26:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.254.11] (junior-wifi.samsco.home [192.168.254.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iBNGUErP089435; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:30:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <41CAF174.4020309@freebsd.org> From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040929 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jsha References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> In-Reply-To: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.86.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:28 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:25:24 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:28 -0000 jsha wrote: > Hello. > > I am writing this e-mail hoping that someone will share my thoughts > on how the world's best operating system should represent its attributes > and users to the rest of the world. > > Being an architect as well as graphic designer, I feel it is about time > for a complete revamp of the visual aesthetics of the FreeBSD project. > The current logo and everything pertaining to it has long since lost its > modern touch. I believe that if this image is strenghtened, so is the > way outsiders view the FreeBSD project and the way they would judge it > compared to other open source operating systems. > > 1. Not only is the logo misleading (associating evil) but it also looks > like something 10-year-olds could produce in Paint Shop Pro ten years > ago. OpenBSD has an artistic touch to theirs, however I was very > disappointed when I heard that the new NetBSD logo was in effect. > > 2. If it wasn't for the interesting content and structure of the FreeBSD > website, it would be among the less beautiful. Yes, it serves its > purpose well by being simple and straight to the point. But a redesign > could offer just the same -- simplicity and accuracy -- without being > ugly. > > 3. The installation, even though it's text-only, could also be improved > by simple restructuring to act more cognitive and human-centered than > previously. Everything pertaining to the eye is important to improve. > > 4. There should be some kind of FreeBSD business card and letterhead > available to all that support this project. > > How do I know though, that if I manage to pull together a team to work > on this refined vision, that we won't be totally ignored even though we > produce the most magnificent result? > > Anyone that are interested, please reply ;-) > > Sincerely, > Johann Manaf Tepstad > -- > j. > If you have the time, desire, and talent to address these issues, I'd love to see the results. I'd caution about being inflamatory in your first statement, though. The logo was definitely not done by a 10 yr old with PSPro, and it has emotional significance to many people. I'd definitely like to see what your ideas are for a replacement. Scott _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:28 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB0816A430; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6F7643D86; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 499C75DCA5; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE76F5C991 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:38:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D706256F73; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:38:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3408B16A534; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:38:04 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54CBA16A4CE; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:37:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [216.220.241.233]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F4843D5A; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:37:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brunner@nic-naa.net) Received: from nic-naa.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nic-naa.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iBNCcWCl004127; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:38:32 GMT (envelope-from brunner@nic-naa.net) Message-Id: <200412231238.iBNCcWCl004127@nic-naa.net> To: jsha In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:27:31 +0100." <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> From: Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, brunner@nic-naa.net Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:28 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:38:32 +0000 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:28 -0000 > I am writing this e-mail hoping that someone will share my thoughts > on how the world's best operating system should represent its attributes > and users to the rest of the world. representations are secondary to function. there are markets for which this relationship is inverted. cost of entry is in the mid-eight-figure range. > Being an architect as well as graphic designer, I feel it is about time > for a complete revamp of the visual aesthetics of the FreeBSD project. code is art, and feelings are nice. please fix ebcdic first. unicode too. > The current logo and everything pertaining to it has long since lost its > modern touch. I believe that if this image is strenghtened, so is the > way outsiders view the FreeBSD project and the way they would judge it > compared to other open source operating systems. modernity is overrated. > 1. Not only is the logo misleading (associating evil) but it also looks dumb. > like something 10-year-olds could produce in Paint Shop Pro ten years > ago. OpenBSD has an artistic touch to theirs, however I was very > disappointed when I heard that the new NetBSD logo was in effect. who, other than you, cares? > 2. If it wasn't for the interesting content and structure of the FreeBSD > website, it would be among the less beautiful. Yes, it serves its > purpose well by being simple and straight to the point. But a redesign > could offer just the same -- simplicity and accuracy -- without being > ugly. break your own website please. > 3. The installation, even though it's text-only, could also be improved > by simple restructuring to act more cognitive and human-centered than > previously. Everything pertaining to the eye is important to improve. break your own loader please. > 4. There should be some kind of FreeBSD business card and letterhead > available to all that support this project. if i give you one will you agree to do something useful? > How do I know though, that if I manage to pull together a team to work > on this refined vision, that we won't be totally ignored even though we > produce the most magnificent result? most likely. its troll's fate. _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:28 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0C1F16A43D; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7314F43E34; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2583C5DC9F; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAA205C991 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:49:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EDF356FFB; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:49:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAF6816A4E5; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:49:29 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12E7116A4CE; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:48:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from asmtp04.eresmas.com (asmtp04.eresmas.com [62.81.235.144]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D29F43D45; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:48:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ea1abz@wanadoo.es) Received: from [192.168.108.59] (helo=mx01.eresmas.com) by asmtp04.eresmas.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1ChW8t-0001PO-BR; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:48:47 +0100 Received: from [80.103.47.197] (helo=[80.103.47.197]) by mx01.eresmas.com with asmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1ChW8l-0006ML-8q; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:48:46 +0100 Message-ID: <41CAF6F6.9070208@wanadoo.es> From: Ramiro Aceves User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (X11/20040926) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jsha References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> In-Reply-To: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.86.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:28 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:48:54 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:28 -0000 jsha wrote: > Hello. > > I am writing this e-mail hoping that someone will share my thoughts > on how the world's best operating system should represent its attributes > and users to the rest of the world. I am new to FreeBSD, only one month of use or so. I come from Debian GNU/Linux world and only want to say some toughts: > > Being an architect as well as graphic designer, I feel it is about time > for a complete revamp of the visual aesthetics of the FreeBSD project. > The current logo and everything pertaining to it has long since lost its > modern touch. I believe that if this image is strenghtened, so is the > way outsiders view the FreeBSD project and the way they would judge it > compared to other open source operating systems. > > 1. Not only is the logo misleading (associating evil) but it also looks > like something 10-year-olds could produce in Paint Shop Pro ten years > ago. OpenBSD has an artistic touch to theirs, however I was very > disappointed when I heard that the new NetBSD logo was in effect. I really like the devil, it is nice and pleasant for me. > > 2. If it wasn't for the interesting content and structure of the FreeBSD > website, it would be among the less beautiful. Yes, it serves its > purpose well by being simple and straight to the point. But a redesign > could offer just the same -- simplicity and accuracy -- without being > ugly. The WEB is great!, I like WEBs with no images moving around! Debian WEB (www.debian.org) and FreeBSD WEB pages are simliar in aesthetics and I feel confortable. > > 3. The installation, even though it's text-only, could also be improved > by simple restructuring to act more cognitive and human-centered than > previously. Everything pertaining to the eye is important to improve. The instalation program is reasonably good , once you do a couple of installs you can do it without thinking too much. Enjoy FreeBSD. Ramiro. _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:30 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D146116A426; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C1F043E73; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7BF6C5DCF2; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C3A55C981 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:25:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8E0A55B69; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:25:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2310416A4D5; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:25:30 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F6D616A4CE; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:25:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from shrike.submonkey.net (cpc2-cdif3-6-0-cust204.cdif.cable.ntl.com [81.103.67.204]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4CEB43D58; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:25:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.43 (FreeBSD)) id 1Chzk7-000C1I-RH; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:25:11 +0000 From: Ceri Davies To: Nikolas Britton , Paul Richards , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Daniel Blendea , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, www@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20041225002511.GC7445@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Nikolas Britton , Paul Richards , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Daniel Blendea , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, www@freebsd.org References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <89b41e4704122303546aaa8d83@mail.gmail.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> <20041224054000.GL19624@funkthat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="sHrvAb52M6C8blB9" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20041224054000.GL19624@funkthat.com> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:30 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:25:11 +0000 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:30 -0000 --sHrvAb52M6C8blB9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 09:40:00PM -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Nikolas Britton wrote this message on Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 22:46 -0600: [ Choosing a random(ish) post to reply to - I am on holiday right now and I will not pretend to have read the whole thread ] > > 2. I cringe when I see Times New Roman, again redo the whole site with = a=20 > > modern web font: Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Etc. (ever here of Cascadin= g=20 > > Style Sheets?) >=20 > you mean a sans-serif font? yes, most computer display fonts should > be sans-serif since the screen resolution does not always allow you to > do that... (and Helvetica isn't that modern, about 50 years old now > it appears)... >=20 > As for CSS, it appears that we do use CSS on the site: > I just committed that before I left for holidays; it is only a first step towards CSS'ing the site, and once the conversion to CSS is complete then it should be simple to have an a "best stylesheet" competition or similar (something along those lines was discussed on doc@ a couple of weeks ago). Matt Seaman posted a link to a crappy "here is what CSS can do" mockup that I posted to doc@ just before the commit mentioned above - it's at http://shrike.submonkey.net/~ceri/data2/index.html (be sure to let all the images load - this is on a slow link - and be aware that it doesn't work properly in IE for reasons that DES mentioned elsewhere). Once the conversion to CSS is complete then I have ideas for a way to offer users a personalised stylesheet (subject to implementation [I do not have a computer with me] and benchmarking [it is likely to be a little slow, though this remains to be seen]), and then you will all whine like bitchen about being asked to accept a cookie. Simon@ also has a parallel project running to redesign the site on a more fundamental which is showing promise; my main focus at present is to migrate all style related bits into stylesheets, at which point it will be easy to mess around with colour/font/layout. At present, it is not. So yes, to whoever asked the question, we have heard of CSS and we have not only been using it (minimally) for over three years, but there is real activity in improving what we do have already. > And part of CSS is letting people choose what font they want to display > the site in... It appears at least Mozilla chooses Times by default... > So I'd more complain to the browers that display with the default font.. Stimmt. Ceri --=20 Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Einstein (attrib.) --sHrvAb52M6C8blB9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBzLNnocfcwTS3JF8RAmkHAKDIfGR6TJaNi+IQKLqo+N3plg6LaQCcDGW+ +gHjlNh7VE624g9IzAxaEQs= =gaup -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sHrvAb52M6C8blB9-- From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:28 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37B2816A443; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0687643E36; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 566755DCA7; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 420305C98A for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:47:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0038C56A6E; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:47:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E0B16A4D7; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:47:47 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29CDC16A4CE; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:47:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62D0F43D31; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:47:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.254.11] (junior-wifi.samsco.home [192.168.254.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iBNGpEPF089509; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:51:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <41CAF660.6050000@freebsd.org> From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040929 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.86.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Daniel Blendea , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Paul Richards Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:31 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:46:24 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:31 -0000 Sam wrote: >> If we want to be taken seriously in the commercial world then we >> need to have the right image. > > > Look ma, a strawman! > > The concern you're addressing is the sort of thing distros > solved in the Linux world. Each typically has their own > "image," installer, system config style, etc. More importantly > for the "commercial world," though, they offer support and > certification. > > The image alone just isn't the problem. Or a problem at all, > I'd argue. Let's be honest -- if a ten-year-old made Beastie, > then a mentally challenged 3-year-old made Tux (and large > portions of the kernel, but I digress). > > Point being Johann, if the community rejects your work > for the core project you can still make your own distro > and release it. Give it a shot! > > Cheers, > > Sam The distro - vs - core release relationship is one of BSD's greatest strengths and weaknesses. It's a strength because there is no 'distro hell' like there is in linux. When you download FreeBSD, you get the same FreeBSD as everyone else; there is no confusion over how the config files are layed out, no differences in the base utilities, everything compiles the same way, etc. That is a huge benefit. But at the same time, it makes it really hard for people to branch out and experiment in the same way that a linux distro can. FreeSBIE is a good example of this happening and working, but it definitely has hurdles. Variety and competition makes the whole stronger, and at times FreeBSD seems a bit in-bred. To address this, I'm playing with ideas for changing the nature of a FreeBSD 'release' a bit to make it easier for outfits like FreeSBIE to build on top of it. Hopefully I'll have something to show for this in 6.0. Scott _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:32 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5106316A422; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E17843E3C; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E70515DCBD; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08C125C98A for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 05:36:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36C8E57327; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:35:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CFC616A51B; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:35:03 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BBB216A4CE; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:34:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx1.originative.co.uk (freebsd.gotadsl.co.uk [81.6.249.198]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C132543D31; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:34:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from paul@mx1.originative.co.uk) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.originative.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 981CE15596; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:34:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx1.originative.co.uk ([127.0.0.1])port 10024) with ESMTP id 85128-04; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:34:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mx1.originative.co.uk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B5DE015639; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:34:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Paul Richards To: Daniel Blendea Message-ID: <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <89b41e4704122303546aaa8d83@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <89b41e4704122303546aaa8d83@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, DEAR_SOMETHING autolearn=no version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:33 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:34:40 +0000 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:33 -0000 On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 01:54:31PM +0200, Daniel Blendea wrote: > 1. bu**s**it, Beastie is **COOL** and would be a loss of identity if > the logo would change; > Dear Sir, please read the page where what greek daemons are explained.. Ignoring the whole beastie thing, because we've just done that whole issue, I think someone with skills other than coding taking an interest in our public image would be a good thing. >From a business perspective we look amateurish. Lots of people here don't seem to care about the outside world which reinforces the opinion that we've become a hobby OS project now. If we want to be taken seriously in the commercial world then we need to have the right image. Paul. _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:33 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8DD16A448; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BCB443E35; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3089E5DCA1; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D73B5C994 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 20:46:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F3D8561FB; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:46:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FF3516A4D9; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:46:31 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98E1416A4CE; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:46:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sccimhc91.asp.att.net (sccimhc91.asp.att.net [63.240.76.165]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A4643D45; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:46:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@nbritton.org) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (12-223-129-46.client.insightbb.com[12.223.129.46]) by sccimhc91.asp.att.net (sccimhc91) with ESMTP id <20041224044618i9100rg29me>; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:46:27 +0000 Message-ID: <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> From: Nikolas Britton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041219) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Richards References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <89b41e4704122303546aaa8d83@mail.gmail.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Daniel Blendea , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:34 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:46:14 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:34 -0000 >>From a business perspective we look amateurish. > > I REALLY REALLY agree with this point, from the prospective of an outsider the website and "Image" conveys a real lack of professionalism, which is not true. I'm looking at the start page for FreeBSD right now and here are the things I do not like about it (please don't be offended if I step on toe's and ego's, I am only trying to better FreeBSD): 1. The "FreeBSD" logo is crap, not beastie (he's a keeper!!!, I'll hunt you down and do bad things to you if you take him away!), Just the black wannabe (and badly done) 3D effect "FreeBSD" part, really, I hate it. Redo the whole logo in photoshop with a bold, antialiased modern web font: (Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Century Gothic, etc.) and forget the whole 3D effect as that is so 90s. Generally all of your logo designs are unprofessional (the logos at the bottom of the page: FreeBSD MALL, UseNix, Daemon News, and Powered by FreeBSD for example) 2. I cringe when I see Times New Roman, again redo the whole site with a modern web font: Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Etc. (ever here of Cascading Style Sheets?) 3. The color scheme is not "complementary" anyone who has been to art school or taken design classes will know what I talking about, read up about basic color theory here: http://www.color-wheel-pro.com/color-theory-basics.html (again, ever here of Cascading Style Sheets??) 4. I like the Beastie logo on the boot loader screen but ASCII art is unprofessional... It would be better if you made the color ASCII beastie the default. I have no real issues with the layout of the site and it would be nice if the installer was more user friendly but I am content with the way it is, maybe you should change the color scheme of the installer to match the website? Here are some example sites: http://m0n0.ch/wall/screens/system.png http://www.mozilla.org/ http://www.horde.org/logos/ http://www.xfce.org/ http://www.gnome.org/ http://www.gimp.org/ http://www.php.net/ http://freebsd.kde.org/ http://www.google.com/ http://www.apache.org/ http://www.adobe.com/ http://www.openoffice.org/ http://www.sun.com/ http://www.suse.com/ http://www.novell.com/ http://www.ibm.com/ http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/ http://www.mysql.com/ http://cocoon.apache.org/ http://www.w3.org/ http://www.penguincomputing.com/ FreeBSD is badly in need of a PR/Design/Marketing department. _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:35 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C06616A44A; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13B1B43E38; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 921D25DCAF; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1441F5C9A1 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:29:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D23E56FA9; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:28:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BCCC16A4CE; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:28:54 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5D316A4CE; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:28:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com (mail.softcardsystems.com [12.34.136.114]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2C8C43D53; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:28:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from sah@softcardsystems.com) Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114])iBNHN5fX030259; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:23:05 -0500 From: Sam X-X-Sender: sah@athena To: Paul Richards In-Reply-To: <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> Message-ID: References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Daniel Blendea , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:35 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:23:05 -0500 (EST) X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:35 -0000 > If we want to be taken seriously in the commercial world then we > need to have the right image. Look ma, a strawman! The concern you're addressing is the sort of thing distros solved in the Linux world. Each typically has their own "image," installer, system config style, etc. More importantly for the "commercial world," though, they offer support and certification. The image alone just isn't the problem. Or a problem at all, I'd argue. Let's be honest -- if a ten-year-old made Beastie, then a mentally challenged 3-year-old made Tux (and large portions of the kernel, but I digress). Point being Johann, if the community rejects your work for the core project you can still make your own distro and release it. Give it a shot! Cheers, Sam _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:36 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEED316A44F; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29D0C43E3B; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DD7585DCBA; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A368B5C907 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 04:00:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5832C57153; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:00:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 132D916A4D2; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:00:08 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E472C16A4D4 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:59:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9358743D58 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:59:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from simon.burke@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 67so963wri for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:59:30 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=E8vkXHnY0hs/WazyQ2cIR8TY1tCZJtsplHgeHiTxfF3nndXJyEPboxs6DEnpQKw3+a/datvLGKAn5zA0oKzEY6zdx8lVLHfe6H11R44xnhBBVxDUqD7zFGrYn6GHK2YBaiRaiYz6N5Trgk3hW9hcoz6DAJGKUIFyALJBxYEtYx4= Received: by 10.54.6.55 with SMTP id 55mr5892wrf; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:59:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.11.57 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:59:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <2d7d2dd2041223035969e056d8@mail.gmail.com> From: Simon Burke In-Reply-To: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, MISSING_HEADERS, RCVD_BY_IP autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Reply-To: Simon Burke List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:37 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:59:29 +0000 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:37 -0000 > > 1. Not only is the logo misleading (associating evil) but it also looks > like something 10-year-olds could produce in Paint Shop Pro ten years > ago. OpenBSD has an artistic touch to theirs, however I was very > disappointed when I heard that the new NetBSD logo was in effect. I would like to know how you assume that he is a representation of evil, ok he looks like a little devil char but there is more than one definition of a devil and besides he looks kind of cute. So the logo/mascot has been around a while but that doesnt warrant change. If it does then most companies in the world need to update their logos too. Also freebsd is an operating system, if the developers and such spent all this time maintaining its image rather than its OS then freeBSD would no longer be such a great operating system. > > 2. If it wasn't for the interesting content and structure of the FreeBSD > website, it would be among the less beautiful. Yes, it serves its > purpose well by being simple and straight to the point. But a redesign > could offer just the same -- simplicity and accuracy -- without being > ugly. Aesthetics are not everything, the web site does what its supposed to do. Also i actually like how it looks. A lot of people have strong feelings about all these all singing all dancing webistes. There is just no need. Keep it simple and easy to navigate around thats all thats really important. If the aesthetics really matter more than function to such people who use BSD then they would probably be not using BSD but either windows or linux, where you have a nice pretty GUI to look at all the nice pretty sites. > 3. The installation, even though it's text-only, could also be improved > by simple restructuring to act more cognitive and human-centered than > previously. Everything pertaining to the eye is important to improve. Granted the installer is not the best installer around, but the main point is that it does the job and it is pretty easy to follow in my opinion anyway. Also there are a couple of projects to my knowledge that are aiming to improve it. > 4. There should be some kind of FreeBSD business card and letterhead > available to all that support this project. I have to ask why? why would people need such things? that i just dont understand > How do I know though, that if I manage to pull together a team to work > on this refined vision, that we won't be totally ignored even though we > produce the most magnificent result? > > Anyone that are interested, please reply ;-) -- Theres no place like ::1 Thanks, SimonB _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:38 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA7E716A44D; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EE2143E4E; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 885C55DCD0; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C5D5C992 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:48:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085CE55D32; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 06:48:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65E8416A4D2; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 06:48:04 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3262316A4CE; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 06:48:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sccimhc91.asp.att.net (sccimhc91.asp.att.net [63.240.76.165]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F55A43D1D; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 06:48:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@nbritton.org) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (12-223-129-46.client.insightbb.com[12.223.129.46]) by sccimhc91.asp.att.net (sccimhc91) with ESMTP id <20041224064759i9100rfo80e>; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 06:48:01 +0000 Message-ID: <41CBBB9A.5000001@nbritton.org> From: Nikolas Britton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041219) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John-Mark Gurney References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <89b41e4704122303546aaa8d83@mail.gmail.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> <20041224054000.GL19624@funkthat.com> In-Reply-To: <20041224054000.GL19624@funkthat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Daniel Blendea , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Paul Richards Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:39 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:47:54 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:39 -0000 John-Mark Gurney wrote: >Nikolas Britton wrote this message on Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 22:46 -0600: > > >>2. I cringe when I see Times New Roman, again redo the whole site with a >>modern web font: Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Etc. (ever here of Cascading >>Style Sheets?) >> >> > >you mean a sans-serif font? yes, most computer display fonts should >be sans-serif since the screen resolution does not always allow you to >do that... (and Helvetica isn't that modern, about 50 years old now >it appears)... > > Yes >As for CSS, it appears that we do use CSS on the site: > > >And part of CSS is letting people choose what font they want to display >the site in... It appears at least Mozilla chooses Times by default... >So I'd more complain to the browers that display with the default font.. > > > learn something new everyday, thanks for the tip. _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:39 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED6516A459; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BC9343E4C; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7CEC35DCCE; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC7495C994 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 23:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0862955BB1; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 07:21:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8022716A4D5; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 07:21:01 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 939BA16A4CE; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 07:20:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F374943D2D; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 07:20:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedwin2k (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) iBO7Kkv63386; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 23:20:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Nikolas Britton" , "Chris" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <41CBB299.4020707@nbritton.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Daniel Blendea , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Paul Richards Subject: RE: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:39 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 23:20:46 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:39 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Nikolas Britton > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:09 PM > To: Chris > > > > Maybe you can start, The Queer-Eye for the BSD-Guy. > > If thats what it takes to get FreeBSD out of obscurity and into the > enterprise then yes I will, just look at what apple did with BSD and > mozilla did with firefox, I don't want to see FreeBSD (or the other > BSDs) die into obscurity as I really like them. > I think there's more FreeBSD installations than Apple installations, way, way more. Obscurity is in the eye of the beholder. And talk is cheap. The FreeBSD documentation team has already asked the FreeBSD community to do a site redesign, see here: http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/current.html#website-css Nobody has stepped up to do it. Since your so hot to redesign the site why don't you e-mail them and get going on doing it instead of talking about it? Ted _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:40 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22FB716A435; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 241A143E51; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B15775DCD8; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EA345C99C for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:40:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59D945678D; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 05:40:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF25D16A4D5; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 05:40:07 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9EE16A4CE for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 05:40:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail6.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A30343D4C for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 05:40:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jmg@hydrogen.funkthat.com) Received: (qmail 6709 invoked from network); 24 Dec 2004 05:40:05 -0000 Received: from gate.funkthat.com (HELO hydrogen.funkthat.com) ([69.17.45.168]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Dec 2004 05:40:05 -0000 Received: from hydrogen.funkthat.com (kjofyb@localhost.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1])iBO5e2GH065965; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:40:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmg@hydrogen.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.funkthat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id iBO5e0MG065948; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:40:00 -0800 (PST) From: John-Mark Gurney To: Nikolas Britton Message-ID: <20041224054000.GL19624@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: Nikolas Britton , Paul Richards , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Daniel Blendea , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <89b41e4704122303546aaa8d83@mail.gmail.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ X-Resume: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/resume.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Daniel Blendea , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Paul Richards Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:40 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:40:00 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:40 -0000 Nikolas Britton wrote this message on Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 22:46 -0600: > 2. I cringe when I see Times New Roman, again redo the whole site with a > modern web font: Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Etc. (ever here of Cascading > Style Sheets?) you mean a sans-serif font? yes, most computer display fonts should be sans-serif since the screen resolution does not always allow you to do that... (and Helvetica isn't that modern, about 50 years old now it appears)... As for CSS, it appears that we do use CSS on the site: And part of CSS is letting people choose what font they want to display the site in... It appears at least Mozilla chooses Times by default... So I'd more complain to the browers that display with the default font.. -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not." _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:41 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E9B416A423; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3132243E59; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C97365DCDE; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2CE75C9A7 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:02:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5409E56DAF; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 05:01:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE0DA16A4CF; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 05:01:50 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5C3916A4CE; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 05:01:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from makeworld.com (makeworld.com [198.92.228.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE68D43D46; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 05:01:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from racerx@makeworld.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.com [127.0.0.1]) by makeworld.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0090260E2; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 23:01:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from makeworld.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (makeworld.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 44906-06; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 23:01:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.92.228.34] (racerx.makeworld.com [198.92.228.34]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by makeworld.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C10360CD; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 23:01:38 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <41CBA2D5.4070700@makeworld.com> From: Chris User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041218) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nikolas Britton References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <89b41e4704122303546aaa8d83@mail.gmail.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> In-Reply-To: <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by ClamAV 0.75.1/amavisd-new-2.2.0 (20041102) at makeworld.com - Isn't it ironic X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Daniel Blendea , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Paul Richards Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:41 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 23:02:13 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:41 -0000 Nikolas Britton wrote: > >>> From a business perspective we look amateurish. >> I have held off thus far... >> > I REALLY REALLY agree with this point, from the prospective of an > outsider the website and "Image" conveys a real lack of professionalism, > which is not true. No you don't - would you prefer multi-colored windows? A penguin? What? Are we looking into the geo-political correctness as in the like as the NetBSD project took? > I'm looking at the start page for FreeBSD right now and here are the > things I do not like about it (please don't be offended if I step on > toe's and ego's, I am only trying to better FreeBSD): Here we go - Let's just re engineer life as we know it. Lets also not offend gays, users of color, males, females, users of religion, users of no religion, users of Windows, users of Linux, users of DOS, users of NetWare, etc, etc, etc. > 1. The "FreeBSD" logo is crap, not beastie (he's a keeper!!!, I'll hunt > you down and do bad things to you if you take him away!), Just the black > wannabe (and badly done) 3D effect "FreeBSD" part, really, I hate it. > Redo the whole logo in photoshop with a bold, antialiased modern web > font: (Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Century Gothic, etc.) and forget the > whole 3D effect as that is so 90s. Generally all of your logo designs > are unprofessional (the logos at the bottom of the page: FreeBSD MALL, > UseNix, Daemon News, and Powered by FreeBSD for example) You will do no such thing - see above, read the threads on the NetBSD site as to the redoing of the "logo" > 2. I cringe when I see Times New Roman, again redo the whole site with a > modern web font: Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Etc. (ever here of Cascading > Style Sheets?) CSS? Isnt that a bit outdated? Isnt that more a Windows thing? > 3. The color scheme is not "complementary" anyone who has been to art > school or taken design classes will know what I talking about, read up > about basic color theory here: > http://www.color-wheel-pro.com/color-theory-basics.html (again, ever > here of Cascading Style Sheets??) Guess what mate - most of us are NOT into art. Get real. Deal with the OS, not the look and feel of the site. Do I really care if a design has passion blue opposed to blue? Do you really thing techies are THAT into pastels? If you want to re design something (Actually - is sounds like you have been watching way too much TLC) then get a gig on Monster House. > 4. I like the Beastie logo on the boot loader screen but ASCII art is > unprofessional... It would be better if you made the color ASCII beastie > the default. Who cares?!?! It's resource friendly tho... > I have no real issues with the layout of the site and it would be nice > if the installer was more user friendly but I am content with the way it > is, maybe you should change the color scheme of the installer to match > the website? Snip - not worth repeating. > FreeBSD is badly in need of a PR/Design/Marketing department. Maybe you can start, The Queer-Eye for the BSD-Guy. -- Best regards, Chris _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:41 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C1EF16A45A; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30FDC43E50; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A5AA35DCD4; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95D855C9A1 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:58:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4171555902; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 05:58:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EE8F16A4D5; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 05:58:09 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED8416A4CE; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 05:58:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from postit.mail.adnap.net.au (postit.mail.adnap.net.au [203.6.132.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D113E43D2F; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 05:58:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bastill@adam.com.au) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (202-6-154-250.ip.adam.com.au [202.6.154.250]) by postit.mail.adnap.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E551C449; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:28:03 +1030 (CST) From: Brian Astill To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> In-Reply-To: <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200412241627.51795.bastill@adam.com.au> X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DATE_IN_FUTURE_12_24 autolearn=no version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Daniel Blendea , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Nikolas Britton , Paul Richards Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:41 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:27:51 -0500 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:41 -0000 On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:46 pm, Nikolas Britton wrote: > FreeBSD is badly in need of a PR/Design/Marketing department. > _______________________________________________ It also needs people who realise that multiple cross-posting is deprecated. Could this conversation please be moved to -advocacy and ONLY to -advocacy? Thanks. -- Regards, Brian sos-sa.org.au _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:42 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA5E16A434; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3669C43D66; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2A6EC5DCA6; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F4FC5C8B1 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FED9563B7; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 22:47:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DF2E16A51F; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 22:47:12 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DD6516A4CE; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 22:47:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.des.no (flood.des.no [217.116.83.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF39D43D41; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 22:47:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 9EB6D530C; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 23:47:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id AEDF75308; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 23:46:20 +0100 (CET) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 40557B874; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 23:46:20 +0100 (CET) To: Giorgos Keramidas References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <89b41e4704122303546aaa8d83@mail.gmail.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> <41CBA2D5.4070700@makeworld.com> <20041224142246.GB779@gothmog.gr> From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) In-Reply-To: <20041224142246.GB779@gothmog.gr> (Giorgos Keramidas's message of "Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:22:46 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Chris , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Nikolas Britton , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:42 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 23:46:19 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:42 -0000 Giorgos Keramidas writes: > On 2004-12-23 23:02, Chris wrote: > > Nikolas Britton wrote: > > > 2. I cringe when I see Times New Roman, again redo the whole site > > > with a modern web font: Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Etc. (ever here of > > > Cascading Style Sheets?) > > CSS? Isnt that a bit outdated? Isnt that more a Windows thing? > Actually, no. Nikolas is right here. The sans serif fonts look much > better and are more readable on the monitor. Times looks better on > paper. Times New Roman was designed for a single purpose: to remain readable even when smudged or printed on low-quality paper. It does not really look good on any medium, but it's less bad than most other fonts on newsprint. Responding to Chris: CSS is neither outdated nor a Windows thing. You apparently need to get an extra clue or two before you rejoin this discussion. Responding to Nikolas: Arial and Verdana are Windows fonts which is not necessarily installed on www.freebsd.org's readers' machines (though it is available in ports). Conversely, Helvetica is generally not available in Windows. CSS defines 'sans-serif' as a generic alias for whichever sans-serif font looks best on each particular platform (it maps to Arial in Windows, and Helvetica or similar in X); likewise, it defines 'serif' as a generic alias for serif fonts (it maps to Times New Roman in Windows, and a variety of Roman fonts in X depending on the browser and on what fonts are available). DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:42 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A7DB16A463; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FDD443E6F; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5F76D5DCED; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223D35C907 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 06:23:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59196560C1; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:23:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F1BA16A4D6; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:23:46 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7B8816A4CE; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:23:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from kane.otenet.gr (kane.otenet.gr [195.170.0.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6E5443D4C; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:23:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: from gothmog.gr (patr530-b238.otenet.gr [212.205.244.246]) iBOENalo011721; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:23:38 +0200 Received: from gothmog.gr (gothmog [127.0.0.1]) by gothmog.gr (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iBOENXPJ001444; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:23:33 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: (from giorgos@localhost) by gothmog.gr (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id iBOEMkmE001441; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:22:46 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Chris , Nikolas Britton Message-ID: <20041224142246.GB779@gothmog.gr> References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <89b41e4704122303546aaa8d83@mail.gmail.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> <41CBA2D5.4070700@makeworld.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <41CBA2D5.4070700@makeworld.com> X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS autolearn=no version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:43 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:22:46 +0200 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:43 -0000 On 2004-12-23 23:02, Chris wrote: >Nikolas Britton wrote: >> 2. I cringe when I see Times New Roman, again redo the whole site >> with a modern web font: Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Etc. (ever here of >> Cascading Style Sheets?) > > CSS? Isnt that a bit outdated? Isnt that more a Windows thing? Actually, no. Nikolas is right here. The sans serif fonts look much better and are more readable on the monitor. Times looks better on paper. > >3. The color scheme is not "complementary" anyone who has been to art > >school or taken design classes will know what I talking about, read up > >about basic color theory here: > >http://www.color-wheel-pro.com/color-theory-basics.html (again, ever > >here of Cascading Style Sheets??) > > Guess what mate - most of us are NOT into art. Get real. Deal with the > OS, not the look and feel of the site. Do I really care if a design > has passion blue opposed to blue? The fact that we don't know a lot about art and design is not a good excuse for reacting badly to anyone that says so. Nikolas, there is an effort to redesign the web site, using CSS as much as possible for style & layout, making sure that the entire site has a consistent look and feel. Your comments show that you know a bit about design. If you believe you can help with such an effort, please contact us at and assist the team who works on the web site. > Do you really thing techies are THAT into pastels? If you want to re > design something (Actually - is sounds like you have been watching way > too much TLC) then get a gig on Monster House. > > >4. I like the Beastie logo on the boot loader screen but ASCII art is > >unprofessional... It would be better if you made the color ASCII beastie > >the default. > > Who cares?!?! It's resource friendly tho... ``Who cares?'' is exactly the sort of bad PR that Nikolas is right about. Please avoid inflammatory material, if possible :-/ Nikolas, there is a good reason why the ASCII art logo is not using colors by default. Many people use FreeBSD with a serial console, and sending colors over a serial port connection is a bit silly: annoying an a waste of precious serial connection bandwidth. This is why the loader logo doesn't use fancy colors by default. - Giorgos _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:43 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B6D16A458; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97EC343E8A; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D039B5DD0E; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:08:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA8305C981 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:33:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC87155C73; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:33:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C22616A4D4; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:33:42 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8668D16A4CE; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:32:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from schlepper.zs64.net (schlepper.zs64.net [212.12.50.230]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0263643D2D; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:32:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stb@lassitu.de) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (schlepper [212.12.50.230]) by schlepper.zs64.net (8.13.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id iBU0WBAE000914; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 01:32:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from stb@lassitu.de) In-Reply-To: <41D31EE9.5050803@nbritton.org> References: <41D31EE9.5050803@nbritton.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <3D6982C4-59FA-11D9-8D31-000A95C893E4@lassitu.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Stefan Bethke To: Nikolas Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Ted Mittelstaedt , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Simon Burke Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:44 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 01:32:09 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:44 -0000 It was fun while it lasted. Please stop. If you have to, move this to chat. -- Stefan Bethke Fon +49 170 346 0140 _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:44 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEDC616A43B; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92ACC43D1F; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 07F295DCE8; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F03D5C98A for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:07:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50C1B564DA; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:07:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80DB216A4EC; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:07:33 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 590D716A4CE; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:07:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from orchid.homeunix.org (awl227.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl [83.27.71.227]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6063243D31; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:07:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@orchid.homeunix.org) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (blackacidevil.orchid.homeunix.org [192.168.1.66]) (authenticated bits=0) by orchid.homeunix.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iBNH44ww039913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Dec 2004 18:07:23 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from freebsd@orchid.homeunix.org) Message-ID: <41CAFA83.4020300@orchid.homeunix.org> From: Karol Kwiatkowski User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ramiro Aceves References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <41CAF6F6.9070208@wanadoo.es> In-Reply-To: <41CAF6F6.9070208@wanadoo.es> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/639/Wed Dec 22 15:09:50 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on orchid.homeunix.org X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Reply-To: freebsd@orchid.homeunix.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:45 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 18:04:03 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:45 -0000 Ramiro Aceves wrote: > jsha wrote: >> 1. Not only is the logo misleading (associating evil) but it also looks >> like something 10-year-olds could produce in Paint Shop Pro ten years >> ago. OpenBSD has an artistic touch to theirs, however I was very >> disappointed when I heard that the new NetBSD logo was in effect. > > I really like the devil, it is nice and pleasant for me. A bit OT, but to make things clear I'd like to point out it's not the devil. It's a daemon. BSD Daemon. "Many people equate the word ``daemon'' with the word ``demon,'' implying some kind of Satanic connection between UNIX and the underworld. This is an egregious misunderstanding. ``Daemon'' is actually a much older form of ``demon''; daemons have no particular bias towards good or evil, but rather serve to help define a person's character or personality. The ancient Greeks' concept of a ``personal daemon'' was similar to the modern concept of a ``guardian angel'' --- ``eudaemonia'' is the state of being helped or protected by a kindly spirit. As a rule, UNIX systems seem to be infested with both daemons and demons." quote from: http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/daemon.html Regards, Karol -- Karol Kwiatkowski _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:45 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E1D16A465; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4996743E3A; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AAC375DCB3; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D221C5C98A for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 04:43:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B47F556E4F; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:43:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A9CE16A4DB; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:43:27 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FF0416A4CF for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:43:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mailserv1.neuroflux.com (ns2.neuroflux.com [204.228.228.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ADF743D4C for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:43:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ryans@gamersimpact.com) Received: (qmail 5729 invoked by uid 89); 23 Dec 2004 12:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO www2.neuroflux.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 23 Dec 2004 12:40:58 -0000 Received: from 63.231.157.250 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ryans@gamersimpact.com); by www2.neuroflux.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 05:40:58 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <49467.63.231.157.250.1103805658.squirrel@63.231.157.250> In-Reply-To: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> From: "Ryan Sommers" To: "jsha" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, DEAR_SOMETHING autolearn=no version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:46 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 05:40:58 -0700 (MST) X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:46 -0000 Going to reply to the whole thread so far. jsha said: > 1. Not only is the logo misleading (associating evil) but it also looks > like something 10-year-olds could produce in Paint Shop Pro ten years Although I don't like the tone of the other replies, I agree with their sentiment, beasty is as much a part of FreeBSD as the family dog is a part of the family. > > 2. If it wasn't for the interesting content and structure of the FreeBSD > website, it would be among the less beautiful. Yes, it serves its > purpose well by being simple and straight to the point. But a redesign > could offer just the same -- simplicity and accuracy -- without being > ugly. I don't think the website is all that ugly, personally, however, a new design isn't out of the question. So long as content and navigation is somewhat preserved. I've found certain things difficult to find again when I remember that I saw them somewhere, and I've been using FreeBSD for 7 years now. > > 3. The installation, even though it's text-only, could also be improved > by simple restructuring to act more cognitive and human-centered than > previously. Everything pertaining to the eye is important to improve. This is on many people's minds, including my own. Now that the holidays are upon us I'm going to try and spend a little of my free time working on putting my ideas into code. Or, I might look again at FreeBSDIE and bsdinstaller and seeing what it would take to bring them into the tree. > > 4. There should be some kind of FreeBSD business card and letterhead > available to all that support this project. I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behing a business card. > > How do I know though, that if I manage to pull together a team to work > on this refined vision, that we won't be totally ignored even though we > produce the most magnificent result? > If you feel it needs to be done, and you would like to work on it, more power to you! Come up with a concept design and submit it for review. I think there are definite improvments to be made in the eyes of the new-comer. I believe there is a www@ team is there not? Might try posting to that list and see what you come up with. FreeBSD survives off people spending time where they see fit. If web-dev and graphic arts is your thing and you want to contribute, I for one will give you the time to submit my opinion of your work. Daniel Blendea said: > 1. bu**s**it, Beastie is **COOL** and would be a loss of identity if > the logo would change; > Dear Sir, please read the page where what greek daemons are explained.. > > 2. again, bu**s**it, the colors are not ugly at ALL, - and i'm not a > fan of site's color theme coz i prefer blue-ish colors - again, think > about identity...whenever one FreeBSD'er sees the logo/colors - on > software packages, media and the like - he will know that product is > related to FreeBSD > > 3. please install FreeBSD couple of times, and afterwards you'll get > to install it eyes- closed.. This is hardly the way to represent and argument. There is no need to be profane at someone for expressing their ideas to aid the project. It should be encouraged. Others, please don't feed the troll. Simon Burke said: > Also freebsd is an operating system, if the developers and such spent > all this time maintaining its image rather than its OS then freeBSD > would no longer be such a great operating system. The code developers don't have to spend time on web-dev and graphics. But if there is a willing body that might not be able to work on the code but has talent in the user-interface, web-development, and graphic arts field, why not let them give their time to the project in a manner that fits their skills? Please don't bash or make light of those that contribute things other than code. Rock on doc@ team. Code or not you've done a great job. It takes many skillsets to develop and maintain a tool such as FreeBSD code is just one of them. -- Ryan Sommers ryans@gamersimpact.com _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:46 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D146116A426; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C1F043E73; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7BF6C5DCF2; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C3A55C981 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:25:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8E0A55B69; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:25:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2310416A4D5; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:25:30 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F6D616A4CE; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:25:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from shrike.submonkey.net (cpc2-cdif3-6-0-cust204.cdif.cable.ntl.com [81.103.67.204]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4CEB43D58; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:25:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.43 (FreeBSD)) id 1Chzk7-000C1I-RH; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:25:11 +0000 From: Ceri Davies To: Nikolas Britton , Paul Richards , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Daniel Blendea , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, www@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20041225002511.GC7445@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Nikolas Britton , Paul Richards , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Daniel Blendea , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, www@freebsd.org References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <89b41e4704122303546aaa8d83@mail.gmail.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> <20041224054000.GL19624@funkthat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="sHrvAb52M6C8blB9" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20041224054000.GL19624@funkthat.com> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:47 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:25:11 +0000 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:47 -0000 --sHrvAb52M6C8blB9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 09:40:00PM -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Nikolas Britton wrote this message on Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 22:46 -0600: [ Choosing a random(ish) post to reply to - I am on holiday right now and I will not pretend to have read the whole thread ] > > 2. I cringe when I see Times New Roman, again redo the whole site with = a=20 > > modern web font: Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Etc. (ever here of Cascadin= g=20 > > Style Sheets?) >=20 > you mean a sans-serif font? yes, most computer display fonts should > be sans-serif since the screen resolution does not always allow you to > do that... (and Helvetica isn't that modern, about 50 years old now > it appears)... >=20 > As for CSS, it appears that we do use CSS on the site: > I just committed that before I left for holidays; it is only a first step towards CSS'ing the site, and once the conversion to CSS is complete then it should be simple to have an a "best stylesheet" competition or similar (something along those lines was discussed on doc@ a couple of weeks ago). Matt Seaman posted a link to a crappy "here is what CSS can do" mockup that I posted to doc@ just before the commit mentioned above - it's at http://shrike.submonkey.net/~ceri/data2/index.html (be sure to let all the images load - this is on a slow link - and be aware that it doesn't work properly in IE for reasons that DES mentioned elsewhere). Once the conversion to CSS is complete then I have ideas for a way to offer users a personalised stylesheet (subject to implementation [I do not have a computer with me] and benchmarking [it is likely to be a little slow, though this remains to be seen]), and then you will all whine like bitchen about being asked to accept a cookie. Simon@ also has a parallel project running to redesign the site on a more fundamental which is showing promise; my main focus at present is to migrate all style related bits into stylesheets, at which point it will be easy to mess around with colour/font/layout. At present, it is not. So yes, to whoever asked the question, we have heard of CSS and we have not only been using it (minimally) for over three years, but there is real activity in improving what we do have already. > And part of CSS is letting people choose what font they want to display > the site in... It appears at least Mozilla chooses Times by default... > So I'd more complain to the browers that display with the default font.. Stimmt. Ceri --=20 Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Einstein (attrib.) --sHrvAb52M6C8blB9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBzLNnocfcwTS3JF8RAmkHAKDIfGR6TJaNi+IQKLqo+N3plg6LaQCcDGW+ +gHjlNh7VE624g9IzAxaEQs= =gaup -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sHrvAb52M6C8blB9-- From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:47 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D878F16A468; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E43543E7C; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E6EFD5DD05; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 755415C9BC for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:24:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C65F555CD; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 07:23:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6317516A514; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 07:23:36 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F4716A4CE; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 07:23:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F87E43D4C; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 07:23:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fpawlak@wi.rr.com) Received: from john.wi.rr.com (CPE-24-160-252-207.wi.rr.com [24.160.252.207]) iBS7NEgV028552; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:23:14 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.2.20041228011612.0285ccd8@pop-server.wi.rr.com> X-Sender: fpawlak@pop-server.wi.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 To: Ted Mittelstaedt , "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" , Simon Burke From: Frank Pawlak In-Reply-To: References: <41D0AF75.6040500@401.cx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-235E4711 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:48 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:23:57 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:48 -0000 This beyond a doubt is one of the best explanations that I have seen, heard, expressed, etc., of how the fsck'ed up world of business does IT stuff, and I have done IT consulting on various levels for over 18 years. Very well said Ted. It points out quite well why BSD in general has a bad time in the marketplace. Regards, Frank At 11:36 PM 12/27/2004, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Roger 'Rocky' > > Vetterberg > > Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 4:57 PM > > To: Simon Burke > > Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > > Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? > > > > > > Simon Burke wrote: > > [snip] > > >>2. If it wasn't for the interesting content and structure of the FreeBSD > > >> website, it would be among the less beautiful. Yes, it serves its > > >> purpose well by being simple and straight to the point. But > > a redesign > > >> could offer just the same -- simplicity and accuracy -- without being > > >> ugly. > > > > > > > > > Aesthetics are not everything, the web site does what its supposed to > > > do. Also i actually like how it looks. > > > A lot of people have strong feelings about all these all singing all > > > dancing webistes. There is just no need. Keep it simple and easy to > > > navigate around thats all thats really important. If the aesthetics > > > really matter more than function to such people who use BSD then they > > > would probably be not using BSD but either windows or linux, where you > > > have a nice pretty GUI to look at all the nice pretty sites. > > > > This is where I think a lot of people simply does not understand the > > problem. > >Roger I understand the problem, I wrote a book on FreeBSD integration >in 2000. The problem is I think you don't understand the problem. > > > Im a FreeBSD user. I like FreeBSD because it does not have all the > > flashy installers and pretty GUI's that many linux distros seems to > > have today. > >That frankly isn't the reason you should like it. You should like it >because it works better than most commercial operating systems let >alone most operating systems. > > > But still, Ive been screaming for years for someone to > > improve the website. Why? > > Anyone that has stood in front of a boardroom full of CEO's or similar > > and tried to promote the use of FreeBSD in a big organisation knows > > why. They might like all the facts about the os, the rock-solid > > stability, the lightning-fast performance and its solid reputation as > > a server os, but one look at the website and they will run screaming > > towards the nearest linux advocate instead. > >Most of the CEO's I've dealt with don't give a shit on a shingle about >a product website. What they care about is: 'can what I need done >be done in a way that is a) cheap and b) works and c) won't lock me >in to you' > >FreeBSD meets criteria A and B really well but it does not meet C. Linux >meets A and B but BARELY meets C. Windows definitely meets C and usually >meets B and doesen't usually meet A. > >The problem of course is that A and C are related. If I am a CEO and >I sign a FreeBSD or Linux deal - and you are a sole-source provider, >then once I have all my business processes into you, I'm locked into >you. Once that happens my thought processes are that your going to become >very expensive to me - why, because there's no competition to you out there. >I'm not going to do that unless I trust you implicitly. And there's very >few business people I am ever going to trust implicitly, save perhaps unless >your a son or daughter, and even then I may not. > >You have to understand of course that this is old-school knee-jerk >thinking. The CEO's are scared to death of you Roger. They don't >understand what your selling, they don't understand how to integrate >technology into their systems, they don't even understand their >current system. > >CEO's choose Windows because they think that there's enough Windows >guys out there that if they don't like the one they have they can >boot him out and get another. They only will give up choosing Windows >if they either absolutely cannot afford it, or if Windows simply won't >do what they need done. > >If they cannot afford it, what they will then do is keep dragging >Windows consultant after Windows consultant in to present to them, >until they stumble over an ignoramus (which is not hard) who over >commits himself and promises the world. They will then burn up >this guy, threatening lawsuits and everything else until they have >extracted the last drop of free work they can, then they will >jettison him. If they simply cannot find any ignoramuses then >I've seen them try deputizing some sales guy or secretary to manage >their Windows deployment, and finally a year afterwards when they >have a house full of Windows XP Home edition and no server, and >a giant workgroup that's falling apart, and they have lost some >critical files because they wern't backing up Sally Sue's workstation >and her disk crashed, then they will panic and overspend on a >Windows installation. > >The CEO's that choose FreeBSD or Linux are the ones where even the >Windows consultants they drag in all tell them "I can't do that" >either because Windows cannot do it, or because the price they >want it done at is so unbelievably cheap that even the ignoramus >Windows consultants can see that it's impossible. > >My take on it is that about 90% of the FreeBSD production installs >are least-cost deals. All of the ones we have ever sold to >customers (and we do both Windows and UNIX projects) are like this. >I'm sure that one of these days we might get a plum contract that >is a high-power server that cannot be done with Windows and the >customer knows it, and wants it done UNIX, it's only a matter of >time. But I would be willing to bet that after they ask if we can >do UNIX and we say yes, their next question will be if we can do >Sun, which we can. And frankly the cost of Solaris for a server is >nothing compared to the labor cost. > >I've frankly never seen a Linux-vs-FreeBSD deal where Linux won >if the consultant wanted to use FreeBSD, and the customer was willing >to deviate from Microsoft. VERY few customers are willing to deviate >from Microsoft, at least not in the Western states. And the ones >that are willing almost always want to do it themselves, and only >want us to come in and set everything up for them while they watch >us over the shoulder and try to get us to teach them how to >do it - because these are people who are too lazy to read the manual >and learn how to do things themselves, they just want someone to >set it up and teach them how to maintain it, so they can pay the >minimum amount of money for the specialist, and spend the minimum >amount of time learning how to do anything. > > > We, the users, might not care about our image, but if we want to be > > taken seriously by the rest of the world we better do something about it! > > > >I would suggest that if you really are this lit up about this issue >that you direct your customers to you OWN website which is quite obviously >superior to the FreeBSD one. > > > > > Clearly, you have not tried to "sell" FreeBSD to a big corporation. > > > >Roger you are just being impatient. You haven't defined 'big' here >but if you mean 'big' in that the company has over 500 employees >in an office building, then even you must know that the check signers >in these companies are almost never under the age of 40. Most >of them are over 40 and most of them came up through the sales ranks, >and not through the technology ranks. These are people who 25 years ago >were partying their way through a business degree in some university >and the only thing that they really know well is how to sell their >companies products. That's why they work at a big company, didn't you >know? Deep down they know they are incompetents and they are too >scared to go out on their own even when they could make triple the >money if they really knew what they were doing. > >They don't really understand anything about technology >infrastructure and they certainly didn't go to grade school or high >school with a personal computer in the house, like kids today. And >the worst part is that they matriculated during the time that in >business education in this country that the 'cog in the machine' aspect >of workers was totally emphasized. Their professors drilled into >their heads the idea that every worker in the company must be >interchangable and they deep down detest and hate the idea of there >being any such thing as 'key employees' > >Why do you think that the current federal government administration >just takes the position that workers need to retrain to the new >economy, as if just retraining 100 million people every 5 years to >new jobs is a good way to run the economy? This is a message that >comes straight out of that generation and resonates with todays >big business movers and shakers. That is why these people are doing >such a terrible job mucking up American big business today, the current >debacle with the airline industry is proof of that, and the amount >of bankruptcies over the last 6 years has been breathtaking. Very >few of these idiots are anything more than closet control freaks. > >To be successful in todays market you have to be able to individualize >your products to what the customers in the market want, and there >is no way for a big business to do that without really drastically >increasing the complexity of it's business workflow. Customers today want >you to stock 100 variations of your product and build all of them to order, >and they want it for the same price that 20 years ago they would >buy the cookie-cutter version you could sell them for. The only >way to do that is to integrate technology completely in every last >speck of business process that a big company does, and it takes a crew of >key technicians to do that. The few big companies that have learned >this aren't asking consultants what the damn operating system is >going to be on the computer systems they are asking the consultants >to build for them. They are telling the consultants 'this is what >the end result needs to be, you either figure out how to get it >for us using whatever things you want to use to get there, or get >the hell out' > >Roger, you really need to be dumbing down your presentations, these >CEO's your presenting to really don't understand all those big >words. Instead of using "FreeBSD" use "UNIX" It's shorter and >even the most sheltered of them understand that yooouu-nikx is >something that runs computers like winders is. And rather >than telling them how many mega-bytes and giga-bits the nice >new server is going to run at, just tell them it's going to be >big, and fast and powerful like Arnold Schwartznegger. Get >them sold on the idea that your providing a -solution to their >problems- not that your providing them some freebsd system >that is real cool and does something they are pretty fuzzy >about exactly what. If they start asking you exactly how your >going to do this don't get sidetracked into a technologists >conversation. > >In fact you might just consider hiring a professional salesperson >that doesen't really know too much about what your selling. These >CEO's really are more interested in things like when your going to >be finished building the new system, who is going to train the >end users, how is it going to help them make money, how much money >are they going to have to pay for it upfront, and how much money >they are going to have to pay for it ongoing. The salesperson should >be figuring all that out with them first. You shouldn't even >be talking about operating systems until you have sold them on >yourself and your company, and if FreeBSD really is an objection >to them, then they should like you enough so that they want you >to build a Linux solution for them. Once you get them hooked and >after a year or so you can switch them over to FreeBSD. > >Ted > >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004 _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:48 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17DE116A429; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF7243D69; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1A1075DC5C; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:08:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01C3E5C9B4 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:37:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD2E55EC3; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 05:36:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6106C16A4CF; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 05:36:51 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF3616A4CE; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 05:36:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15E6643D46; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 05:36:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedwin2k (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) iBS5aav82480; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:36:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" , "Simon Burke" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <41D0AF75.6040500@401.cx> X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:49 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:36:36 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:49 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Roger 'Rocky' > Vetterberg > Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 4:57 PM > To: Simon Burke > Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? > > > Simon Burke wrote: > [snip] > >>2. If it wasn't for the interesting content and structure of the FreeBSD > >> website, it would be among the less beautiful. Yes, it serves its > >> purpose well by being simple and straight to the point. But > a redesign > >> could offer just the same -- simplicity and accuracy -- without being > >> ugly. > > > > > > Aesthetics are not everything, the web site does what its supposed to > > do. Also i actually like how it looks. > > A lot of people have strong feelings about all these all singing all > > dancing webistes. There is just no need. Keep it simple and easy to > > navigate around thats all thats really important. If the aesthetics > > really matter more than function to such people who use BSD then they > > would probably be not using BSD but either windows or linux, where you > > have a nice pretty GUI to look at all the nice pretty sites. > > This is where I think a lot of people simply does not understand the > problem. Roger I understand the problem, I wrote a book on FreeBSD integration in 2000. The problem is I think you don't understand the problem. > Im a FreeBSD user. I like FreeBSD because it does not have all the > flashy installers and pretty GUI's that many linux distros seems to > have today. That frankly isn't the reason you should like it. You should like it because it works better than most commercial operating systems let alone most operating systems. > But still, Ive been screaming for years for someone to > improve the website. Why? > Anyone that has stood in front of a boardroom full of CEO's or similar > and tried to promote the use of FreeBSD in a big organisation knows > why. They might like all the facts about the os, the rock-solid > stability, the lightning-fast performance and its solid reputation as > a server os, but one look at the website and they will run screaming > towards the nearest linux advocate instead. Most of the CEO's I've dealt with don't give a shit on a shingle about a product website. What they care about is: 'can what I need done be done in a way that is a) cheap and b) works and c) won't lock me in to you' FreeBSD meets criteria A and B really well but it does not meet C. Linux meets A and B but BARELY meets C. Windows definitely meets C and usually meets B and doesen't usually meet A. The problem of course is that A and C are related. If I am a CEO and I sign a FreeBSD or Linux deal - and you are a sole-source provider, then once I have all my business processes into you, I'm locked into you. Once that happens my thought processes are that your going to become very expensive to me - why, because there's no competition to you out there. I'm not going to do that unless I trust you implicitly. And there's very few business people I am ever going to trust implicitly, save perhaps unless your a son or daughter, and even then I may not. You have to understand of course that this is old-school knee-jerk thinking. The CEO's are scared to death of you Roger. They don't understand what your selling, they don't understand how to integrate technology into their systems, they don't even understand their current system. CEO's choose Windows because they think that there's enough Windows guys out there that if they don't like the one they have they can boot him out and get another. They only will give up choosing Windows if they either absolutely cannot afford it, or if Windows simply won't do what they need done. If they cannot afford it, what they will then do is keep dragging Windows consultant after Windows consultant in to present to them, until they stumble over an ignoramus (which is not hard) who over commits himself and promises the world. They will then burn up this guy, threatening lawsuits and everything else until they have extracted the last drop of free work they can, then they will jettison him. If they simply cannot find any ignoramuses then I've seen them try deputizing some sales guy or secretary to manage their Windows deployment, and finally a year afterwards when they have a house full of Windows XP Home edition and no server, and a giant workgroup that's falling apart, and they have lost some critical files because they wern't backing up Sally Sue's workstation and her disk crashed, then they will panic and overspend on a Windows installation. The CEO's that choose FreeBSD or Linux are the ones where even the Windows consultants they drag in all tell them "I can't do that" either because Windows cannot do it, or because the price they want it done at is so unbelievably cheap that even the ignoramus Windows consultants can see that it's impossible. My take on it is that about 90% of the FreeBSD production installs are least-cost deals. All of the ones we have ever sold to customers (and we do both Windows and UNIX projects) are like this. I'm sure that one of these days we might get a plum contract that is a high-power server that cannot be done with Windows and the customer knows it, and wants it done UNIX, it's only a matter of time. But I would be willing to bet that after they ask if we can do UNIX and we say yes, their next question will be if we can do Sun, which we can. And frankly the cost of Solaris for a server is nothing compared to the labor cost. I've frankly never seen a Linux-vs-FreeBSD deal where Linux won if the consultant wanted to use FreeBSD, and the customer was willing to deviate from Microsoft. VERY few customers are willing to deviate from Microsoft, at least not in the Western states. And the ones that are willing almost always want to do it themselves, and only want us to come in and set everything up for them while they watch us over the shoulder and try to get us to teach them how to do it - because these are people who are too lazy to read the manual and learn how to do things themselves, they just want someone to set it up and teach them how to maintain it, so they can pay the minimum amount of money for the specialist, and spend the minimum amount of time learning how to do anything. > We, the users, might not care about our image, but if we want to be > taken seriously by the rest of the world we better do something about it! > I would suggest that if you really are this lit up about this issue that you direct your customers to you OWN website which is quite obviously superior to the FreeBSD one. > > Clearly, you have not tried to "sell" FreeBSD to a big corporation. > Roger you are just being impatient. You haven't defined 'big' here but if you mean 'big' in that the company has over 500 employees in an office building, then even you must know that the check signers in these companies are almost never under the age of 40. Most of them are over 40 and most of them came up through the sales ranks, and not through the technology ranks. These are people who 25 years ago were partying their way through a business degree in some university and the only thing that they really know well is how to sell their companies products. That's why they work at a big company, didn't you know? Deep down they know they are incompetents and they are too scared to go out on their own even when they could make triple the money if they really knew what they were doing. They don't really understand anything about technology infrastructure and they certainly didn't go to grade school or high school with a personal computer in the house, like kids today. And the worst part is that they matriculated during the time that in business education in this country that the 'cog in the machine' aspect of workers was totally emphasized. Their professors drilled into their heads the idea that every worker in the company must be interchangable and they deep down detest and hate the idea of there being any such thing as 'key employees' Why do you think that the current federal government administration just takes the position that workers need to retrain to the new economy, as if just retraining 100 million people every 5 years to new jobs is a good way to run the economy? This is a message that comes straight out of that generation and resonates with todays big business movers and shakers. That is why these people are doing such a terrible job mucking up American big business today, the current debacle with the airline industry is proof of that, and the amount of bankruptcies over the last 6 years has been breathtaking. Very few of these idiots are anything more than closet control freaks. To be successful in todays market you have to be able to individualize your products to what the customers in the market want, and there is no way for a big business to do that without really drastically increasing the complexity of it's business workflow. Customers today want you to stock 100 variations of your product and build all of them to order, and they want it for the same price that 20 years ago they would buy the cookie-cutter version you could sell them for. The only way to do that is to integrate technology completely in every last speck of business process that a big company does, and it takes a crew of key technicians to do that. The few big companies that have learned this aren't asking consultants what the damn operating system is going to be on the computer systems they are asking the consultants to build for them. They are telling the consultants 'this is what the end result needs to be, you either figure out how to get it for us using whatever things you want to use to get there, or get the hell out' Roger, you really need to be dumbing down your presentations, these CEO's your presenting to really don't understand all those big words. Instead of using "FreeBSD" use "UNIX" It's shorter and even the most sheltered of them understand that yooouu-nikx is something that runs computers like winders is. And rather than telling them how many mega-bytes and giga-bits the nice new server is going to run at, just tell them it's going to be big, and fast and powerful like Arnold Schwartznegger. Get them sold on the idea that your providing a -solution to their problems- not that your providing them some freebsd system that is real cool and does something they are pretty fuzzy about exactly what. If they start asking you exactly how your going to do this don't get sidetracked into a technologists conversation. In fact you might just consider hiring a professional salesperson that doesen't really know too much about what your selling. These CEO's really are more interested in things like when your going to be finished building the new system, who is going to train the end users, how is it going to help them make money, how much money are they going to have to pay for it upfront, and how much money they are going to have to pay for it ongoing. The salesperson should be figuring all that out with them first. You shouldn't even be talking about operating systems until you have sold them on yourself and your company, and if FreeBSD really is an objection to them, then they should like you enough so that they want you to build a Linux solution for them. Once you get them hooked and after a year or so you can switch them over to FreeBSD. Ted _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:49 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B26416A46A; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4353A43E88; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C545F5DD0C; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:08:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4049F5C99C for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:18:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DA4E55F7E; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:17:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A522016A4F2; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:17:39 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24EBF16A4D4; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:17:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sccimhc92.asp.att.net (sccimhc92.asp.att.net [63.240.76.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92F6643D5A; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:17:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@nbritton.org) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (12-223-129-46.client.insightbb.com[12.223.129.46]) by sccimhc92.asp.att.net (sccimhc92) with ESMTP id <20041229211733i92002ah50e>; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:17:35 +0000 Message-ID: <41D31EE9.5050803@nbritton.org> From: Nikolas Britton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041219) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Mittelstaedt References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-www@freebsd.org, Simon Burke , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:49 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:17:29 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:49 -0000 Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >>nbritton wrote: gain this is are target market; consultants, integrators, vars, etc. I >>bet 80% of them don't even know FreeBSD exists and of the 20% that do >>only 20% would consider using and recommending it based on technical >>merit alone. >> >> >> > >A var that has a thriving Linux consultancy and no FreeBSD experience >isn't going to buy into FreeBSD. The only time your going to get a >consultant with no FreeBSD experience into looking at FreeBSD is if they >can't make a go of it with their existing product line, or if they have >never done consulting before and >are just starting out. > > > > This is one of main point I'm trying to make in all of these talks. How are they ever going to know it's out there and when they do make first contact don't you think we should greet them in a professional manner? Sorry if I mangled the message a bit when I cut out all the fluff. _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:49 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AD5416A46B; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFAC543E66; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 126EE5DCEA; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D5565C907 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27A2156AD9; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:27:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF01516A4EE; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:27:40 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8025C16A4CE; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:27:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ninja.terrabionic.com (ninja.terrabionic.com [213.187.181.70]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E671643D48; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:27:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from johann@terrabionic.com) Received: by ninja.terrabionic.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8D7633C; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:27:32 +0100 (CET) From: jsha To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD ninja.terrabionic.com 5.3-STABLE i386 X-Location: Bergen, Norway, Europe X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:49 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:27:31 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:49 -0000 --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hello. I am writing this e-mail hoping that someone will share my thoughts on how the world's best operating system should represent its attributes and users to the rest of the world. Being an architect as well as graphic designer, I feel it is about time for a complete revamp of the visual aesthetics of the FreeBSD project. The current logo and everything pertaining to it has long since lost its modern touch. I believe that if this image is strenghtened, so is the way outsiders view the FreeBSD project and the way they would judge it compared to other open source operating systems. 1. Not only is the logo misleading (associating evil) but it also looks like something 10-year-olds could produce in Paint Shop Pro ten years ago. OpenBSD has an artistic touch to theirs, however I was very disappointed when I heard that the new NetBSD logo was in effect. 2. If it wasn't for the interesting content and structure of the FreeBSD website, it would be among the less beautiful. Yes, it serves its purpose well by being simple and straight to the point. But a redesign could offer just the same -- simplicity and accuracy -- without being ugly. 3. The installation, even though it's text-only, could also be improved by simple restructuring to act more cognitive and human-centered than previously. Everything pertaining to the eye is important to improve. 4. There should be some kind of FreeBSD business card and letterhead available to all that support this project. How do I know though, that if I manage to pull together a team to work on this refined vision, that we won't be totally ignored even though we produce the most magnificent result? Anyone that are interested, please reply ;-) Sincerely, Johann Manaf Tepstad -- j. --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFByqujeF7Rq67IV2wRAlKUAKCl2+j0nGxHSCaA6vVuaKHmWS329ACg38yh cyKa7Mugay7SWji/RX22aIk= =zolu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e-- From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:49 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6924716A470; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8EB843E7B; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D6D385DD03; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 922DA5C8B1 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 04:52:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4E156267; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 12:50:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2F9616A4D0; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 12:50:39 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A0F16A540; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 12:50:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sccimhc91.asp.att.net (sccimhc91.asp.att.net [63.240.76.165]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B840343D5D; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 12:50:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@nbritton.org) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (12-223-129-46.client.insightbb.com[12.223.129.46]) by sccimhc91.asp.att.net (sccimhc91) with ESMTP id <20041228125011i9100rfdmee>; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 12:50:12 +0000 Message-ID: <41D1567F.9000901@nbritton.org> From: Nikolas Britton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041219) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Mittelstaedt References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg , Simon Burke Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:49 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 06:50:07 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:49 -0000 Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org >>[mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Roger 'Rocky' >>Vetterberg >>Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 4:57 PM >>To: Simon Burke >>Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; >>freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org >>Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? >> >> >> >> > > >>Im a FreeBSD user. I like FreeBSD because it does not have all the >>flashy installers and pretty GUI's that many linux distros seems to >>have today. >> >> > >That frankly isn't the reason you should like it. You should like it >because it works better than most commercial operating systems let >alone most operating systems. > > It does, and that is why I use it. Amiga was like that too. > > >>But still, Ive been screaming for years for someone to >>improve the website. Why? >>Anyone that has stood in front of a boardroom full of CEO's or similar >>and tried to promote the use of FreeBSD in a big organisation knows >>why. They might like all the facts about the os, the rock-solid >>stability, the lightning-fast performance and its solid reputation as >>a server os, but one look at the website and they will run screaming >>towards the nearest linux advocate instead. >> >> > >Most of the CEO's I've dealt with don't give a shit on a shingle about >a product website. > Why are you even talking to CEOs? This is a job for CTOs and/or CIOs, and if a company didn't have one you wound then be talking to a CFO or COO. >What they care about is: 'can what I need done >be done in a way that is a) cheap and b) works and c) won't lock me >in to you' > > d) support. e) what everyone else uses. Most companys only care about d and e as windows is nether a, b, or c... umm how'd it go... "No one ever got fired for buying IBM" >I've frankly never seen a Linux-vs-FreeBSD deal where Linux won >if the consultant wanted to use FreeBSD, > You assuming the consultant even knows about FreeBSD, most do not. >and the customer was willing >to deviate from Microsoft. > Know your market, we are not trying to get them to switch to FreeBSD from Windows, we are the alternative to the alternative for a company that has already decide to go with the alternative instead of windows. > VERY few customers are willing to deviate >from Microsoft, at least not in the Western states. > On the desktop yes, but where not talking about desktops here, where talking about servers and Linux has its claws all over the server market. > > >>We, the users, might not care about our image, but if we want to be >>taken seriously by the rest of the world we better do something about it! >> >> >> > >I would suggest that if you really are this lit up about this issue >that you direct your customers to you OWN website which is quite obviously >superior to the FreeBSD one. > > Now thats just asinine. > >Roger, you really need to be dumbing down your presentations, these >CEO's your presenting to really don't understand all those big >words. Instead of using "FreeBSD" use "UNIX" It's shorter and >even the most sheltered of them understand that yooouu-nikx is >something that runs computers like winders is. > I'm sorry to say but anyone outside of IT/IS/MIS has no clue what UNIX is. at best they mistake it for Linux. >And rather >than telling them how many mega-bytes and giga-bits the nice >new server is going to run at, just tell them it's going to be >big, and fast and powerful like Arnold Schwartznegger. > I agree with you about the megabit and bytes but you have gone to far to the other extreme, they are not stupid, the CEO's job is to keep the company afloat not know what a megabyte is, this is why we have CTOs and CIOs. > >In fact you might just consider hiring a professional salesperson >that doesen't really know too much about what your selling. > this is a good idea, I'd have to agree with him. >You shouldn't even >be talking about operating systems until you have sold them on >yourself and your company, > Again this is are target market; consultants, integrators, vars, etc. I bet 80% of them don't even know FreeBSD exists and of the 20% that do only 20% would consider using and recommending it based on technical merit alone. I want a part of the linux pie! _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:50 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58E9D16A46D; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A901A43E76; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 99C715DCF7; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10F065C99E for ; Sun, 26 Dec 2004 06:20:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B28115564D; Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:20:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3258A16A4D6; Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:20:47 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAA5916A4CE; Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:20:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from kenmore.kozy-kabin.nl (fia148-72.dsl.hccnet.nl [62.251.72.148]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B331943D3F; Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:20:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from colin@kenmore.kozy-kabin.nl) Received: from localhost (colin@localhost) by kenmore.kozy-kabin.nl (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id iBQEKbh02406; Sun, 26 Dec 2004 15:20:37 +0100 (CET) From: "Colin J. Raven" To: Nikolas Britton In-Reply-To: <41CD7D41.4070206@nbritton.org> Message-ID: References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> <41CBA2D5.4070700@makeworld.com> <20041224142246.GB779@gothmog.gr> <41CC9DE0.6010500@makeworld.com> <41CD7D41.4070206@nbritton.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-www@freebsd.org, Giorgos Keramidas , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:50 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 15:20:36 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:50 -0000 On Dec 25, Nikolas Britton responded thusly: > Colin J. Raven wrote: > >> On Dec 25, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav launched this into the bitstream: >>=20 >>> Chris writes: >>>=20 >>>> One does not need to know how to rebuild an engine to know how to >>>> drive the car. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> One should not criticize the design of an engine while vehemently >>> claiming to have no interest in how enginges are built. >>=20 >>=20 >> One should not buy a car without at least knowing the general specs of t= he=20 >> engine. > > > One should not buy a car without at least looking under the hood, kicking= the=20 > tires, and taking it for a test drive. > One should not need to strike tires with one's footwear in order to=20 determine the suitability of the vehicle. Regards, -Colin -- Colin J. Raven 3:19PM up 4:20, 2 users, load averages: 1.76, 1.63, 1.59 Today's Random Silliness: "There's a disturbance in the force, OK...who didn't flush the toilet?" _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:51 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF8B16A48B; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CEC843E71; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6FCDF5DCEF; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 688F75C97C for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:28:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C294156210; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:28:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E41316A4D4; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:28:49 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E3016A4CE; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:28:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com (mailout06.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.19]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F53443D41; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:28:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from fwd11.aul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1ChoYg-0001VZ-01; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:28:38 +0100 Received: from Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (bKaf0MZdYeQPMQMJB40AhL4GJu8YPhTwvnZAlAp6i7v7NjqgEgsd8H@[217.229.222.40]) by fmrl11.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 1ChoYM-0Wvk8W0; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:28:18 +0100 Received: from Magellan.Leidinger.net (Magellan.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.1]) iBOCS9tj059543; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:28:09 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) From: Alexander Leidinger To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, jsha Message-ID: <20041224132825.023fc5ee@Magellan.Leidinger.net> In-Reply-To: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 0.9.13 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd6.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ID: bKaf0MZdYeQPMQMJB40AhL4GJu8YPhTwvnZAlAp6i7v7NjqgEgsd8H@t-dialin.net X-TOI-MSGID: 50e9a8d7-c00a-455f-8a4b-268e48bfb6f7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:51 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:28:25 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:51 -0000 On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:27:31 +0100 jsha wrote: > I am writing this e-mail hoping that someone will share my thoughts > on how the world's best operating system should represent its attributes > and users to the rest of the world. You know that you write this a t a time where a lot of people are visiting their family and don't have email access or don't read the mailinglists? At least this is the case for a lot of FreeBSD committers. > Being an architect as well as graphic designer, I feel it is about time > for a complete revamp of the visual aesthetics of the FreeBSD project. Even if a lot of committers won't/can't answer now: there are people which agree with you (maybe not all, but you know what we say about bikesheds, don't you?). > The current logo and everything pertaining to it has long since lost its > modern touch. I believe that if this image is strenghtened, so is the > way outsiders view the FreeBSD project and the way they would judge it > compared to other open source operating systems. > > 1. Not only is the logo misleading (associating evil) but it also looks We had an discussion a while ago about this. The way I understand the conclusion is: we have a mascot, but no logo (we may use our mascot like other people use a logo ATM). And we want to keep the mascot. We may be interested in a logo, but a logo is a bikeshed topic. Since we're more developers than designers, nobody stepped up to proceed on this topic (at least I don't know about it if someone proceeded further). If you want to put your energy into creating a logo, there will be people which listen to you. > like something 10-year-olds could produce in Paint Shop Pro ten years > ago. OpenBSD has an artistic touch to theirs, however I was very > disappointed when I heard that the new NetBSD logo was in effect. This is a little bit harsh. I suggest to stay with facts and suggestions. Keep such rants for your personal pleasure, we don't need them. > 2. If it wasn't for the interesting content and structure of the FreeBSD > website, it would be among the less beautiful. Yes, it serves its > purpose well by being simple and straight to the point. But a redesign > could offer just the same -- simplicity and accuracy -- without being > ugly. The doc team is progressing in this direction... at least if I read the content between the lines of commit logs right. I think they try to separate the content from the design at the moment (the prerequisite to use the full power of CSS). I suggest to get in contact with them to not reinvent the wheel. > 3. The installation, even though it's text-only, could also be improved > by simple restructuring to act more cognitive and human-centered than > previously. Everything pertaining to the eye is important to improve. Yes. AFAIK the Freesbie project is integrating the bsdinstaller (the installer DragonFly uses) ATM. We will see how this works out and depending on this there may be interest to integrate the installer into FreeBSD. > 4. There should be some kind of FreeBSD business card and letterhead > available to all that support this project. Even if there are some people which don't think this is needed, I like this idea. In may day to day job I'm working as a consultant, so I know where/how/why this may be beneficial (or not). > How do I know though, that if I manage to pull together a team to work > on this refined vision, that we won't be totally ignored even though we > produce the most magnificent result? We can't guarantee that any of your work will be adopted, but I don't think your work will be ignored (be prepared to get a lot of critique... positive and negative one). Bye, Alexander. -- The best things in life are free, but the expensive ones are still worth a look. http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net GPG fingerprint = C518 BC70 E67F 143F BE91 3365 79E2 9C60 B006 3FE7 _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:52 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C43DD16A48E; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70D8843E7D; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 33C2A5DCA2; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:08:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 038FE5C9BC for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:46:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93E4356A1B; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:46:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3378416A4CE; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:46:09 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BCEB16A4CE; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:46:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sccimhc91.asp.att.net (sccimhc91.asp.att.net [63.240.76.165]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C13D643D45; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:46:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@nbritton.org) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (12-223-129-46.client.insightbb.com[12.223.129.46]) by sccimhc91.asp.att.net (sccimhc91) with ESMTP id <20041228024602i9100rffrre>; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 02:46:03 +0000 Message-ID: <41D0C8E6.2040609@nbritton.org> From: Nikolas Britton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041219) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Pawlak References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <2d7d2dd2041223035969e056d8@mail.gmail.com> <41D0AF75.6040500@401.cx> <6.0.3.0.2.20041227193622.02850750@pop-server.wi.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20041227193622.02850750@pop-server.wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg , Simon Burke Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:53 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:45:58 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:53 -0000 Frank Pawlak wrote: > This is one of several issues that have been brought up on an almost > periodic basis for the past several years. There have been several > attempts by various folks, including a rather ambitious one by this > author, and all have died because of severe lack of interest. It has > been a few years since I have posted to this news group but my advise > to you is to give it up. You will only meet with much frustration, > apathy, and something along the lines of " if you don't like it fix it > yourself". I say we keep on rehashing this everyday until someone does it just to shut us up. ;-) Has there ever been an attempt at forming a group so us like minded people "can" fix it ourselfs? > > I consider this very unfortunate, because has some commercial > properties that could well be more attractive than other OS'S. The > development team just is not interested in this issue. I have fought > many a battle in years past over marketing issues with members of the > core team and others. OK, everyone lets see you flame throwers..... > Wes Petters, Jordan Hubbard, are you out there....;-) > > Frank > > At 06:57 PM 12/27/2004, Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: > >> Simon Burke wrote: >> [snip] >> >>>> 2. If it wasn't for the interesting content and structure of the >>>> FreeBSD >>>> website, it would be among the less beautiful. Yes, it serves its >>>> purpose well by being simple and straight to the point. But a >>>> redesign >>>> could offer just the same -- simplicity and accuracy -- without >>>> being >>>> ugly. >>> >>> >>> Aesthetics are not everything, the web site does what its supposed to >>> do. Also i actually like how it looks. >>> A lot of people have strong feelings about all these all singing all >>> dancing webistes. There is just no need. Keep it simple and easy to >>> navigate around thats all thats really important. If the aesthetics >>> really matter more than function to such people who use BSD then they >>> would probably be not using BSD but either windows or linux, where you >>> have a nice pretty GUI to look at all the nice pretty sites. >> >> >> This is where I think a lot of people simply does not understand the >> problem. >> Im a FreeBSD user. I like FreeBSD because it does not have all the >> flashy installers and pretty GUI's that many linux distros seems to >> have today. But still, Ive been screaming for years for someone to >> improve the website. Why? >> Anyone that has stood in front of a boardroom full of CEO's or >> similar and tried to promote the use of FreeBSD in a big organisation >> knows why. They might like all the facts about the os, the rock-solid >> stability, the lightning-fast performance and its solid reputation as >> a server os, but one look at the website and they will run screaming >> towards the nearest linux advocate instead. >> We, the users, might not care about our image, but if we want to be >> taken seriously by the rest of the world we better do something about >> it! >> >> [snip] >> >>>> 4. There should be some kind of FreeBSD business card and letterhead >>>> available to all that support this project. >>> >>> >>> I have to ask why? why would people need such things? that i just dont >>> understand >> >> >> Clearly, you have not tried to "sell" FreeBSD to a big corporation. >> >> -- >> R >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >> "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004 > > > _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:54 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3743616A41C; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 142EB43E4F; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9AC515DCD2; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7185C8B1 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:09:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1417255E77; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 23:09:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B631616A4DA; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 23:09:53 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 319FF16A4D0; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 23:09:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.des.no (flood.des.no [217.116.83.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D3BD43D46; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 23:09:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id C59B5530C; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:09:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id 97A485308; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:08:45 +0100 (CET) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 08838B874; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:08:44 +0100 (CET) To: Chris References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <89b41e4704122303546aaa8d83@mail.gmail.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> <41CBA2D5.4070700@makeworld.com> <20041224142246.GB779@gothmog.gr> <41CC9DE0.6010500@makeworld.com> From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) In-Reply-To: <41CC9DE0.6010500@makeworld.com> (racerx@makeworld.com's message of "Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:53:20 -0600") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-www@freebsd.org, Giorgos Keramidas , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Nikolas Britton , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:54 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:08:44 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:54 -0000 Chris writes: > Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > > Responding to Chris: CSS is neither outdated nor a Windows thing. You > > apparently need to get an extra clue or two before you rejoin this > > discussion. > Not really - Some years back MS made a big issue about CSS. It was > then that I lost interest in web devel. Besides - web devel isn't my > bag, so I really don't think that I need to have or get a clue. CSS is a W3 standard, but was originally designed by the CTO of Opera Software, a company which is one of Microsoft's more vocal detractors and which recently received a large settlement in a lawsuit regarding Microsoft's (alleged) intentional efforts to make their website render poorly in Opera's browser. IE handles CSS1 badly, and CSS2 almost not at all. Calling it a Windows thing severely misrepresents the facts. > One does not need to know how to rebuild an engine to know how to > drive the car. One should not criticize the design of an engine while vehemently claiming to have no interest in how enginges are built. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:54 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6610F16A498; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B297843E7F; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5045D5DCC8; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:08:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D8CF5C9C1 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:44:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF94356B35; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:44:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B476316A4D5; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:44:09 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DC1816A4CE; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:44:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3D5943D5E; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:44:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fpawlak@wi.rr.com) Received: from john.wi.rr.com (CPE-24-160-252-207.wi.rr.com [24.160.252.207]) iBS1huIN014267; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:43:56 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.2.20041227193622.02850750@pop-server.wi.rr.com> X-Sender: fpawlak@pop-server.wi.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 To: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" , Simon Burke From: Frank Pawlak In-Reply-To: <41D0AF75.6040500@401.cx> References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <2d7d2dd2041223035969e056d8@mail.gmail.com> <41D0AF75.6040500@401.cx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-235E4711 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:54 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:44:39 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:54 -0000 This is one of several issues that have been brought up on an almost periodic basis for the past several years. There have been several attempts by various folks, including a rather ambitious one by this author, and all have died because of severe lack of interest. It has been a few years since I have posted to this news group but my advise to you is to give it up. You will only meet with much frustration, apathy, and something along the lines of " if you don't like it fix it yourself". I consider this very unfortunate, because has some commercial properties that could well be more attractive than other OS'S. The development team just is not interested in this issue. I have fought many a battle in years past over marketing issues with members of the core team and others. OK, everyone lets see you flame throwers..... Wes Petters, Jordan Hubbard, are you out there....;-) Frank At 06:57 PM 12/27/2004, Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: >Simon Burke wrote: >[snip] >>>2. If it wasn't for the interesting content and structure of the FreeBSD >>> website, it would be among the less beautiful. Yes, it serves its >>> purpose well by being simple and straight to the point. But a redesign >>> could offer just the same -- simplicity and accuracy -- without being >>> ugly. >> >>Aesthetics are not everything, the web site does what its supposed to >>do. Also i actually like how it looks. >>A lot of people have strong feelings about all these all singing all >>dancing webistes. There is just no need. Keep it simple and easy to >>navigate around thats all thats really important. If the aesthetics >>really matter more than function to such people who use BSD then they >>would probably be not using BSD but either windows or linux, where you >>have a nice pretty GUI to look at all the nice pretty sites. > >This is where I think a lot of people simply does not understand the problem. >Im a FreeBSD user. I like FreeBSD because it does not have all the flashy >installers and pretty GUI's that many linux distros seems to have today. >But still, Ive been screaming for years for someone to improve the >website. Why? >Anyone that has stood in front of a boardroom full of CEO's or similar and >tried to promote the use of FreeBSD in a big organisation knows why. They >might like all the facts about the os, the rock-solid stability, the >lightning-fast performance and its solid reputation as a server os, but >one look at the website and they will run screaming towards the nearest >linux advocate instead. >We, the users, might not care about our image, but if we want to be taken >seriously by the rest of the world we better do something about it! > >[snip] >>>4. There should be some kind of FreeBSD business card and letterhead >>> available to all that support this project. >> >>I have to ask why? why would people need such things? that i just dont >>understand > >Clearly, you have not tried to "sell" FreeBSD to a big corporation. > >-- >R >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004 _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:54 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C7F516A48F; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B159C43E69; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1F2105DC99; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B30BC5C900 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:53:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A16A85616F; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 22:52:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61AE816A4E5; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 22:52:48 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6046E16A4CE; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 22:52:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from makeworld.com (makeworld.com [198.92.228.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0026143D3F; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 22:52:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from racerx@makeworld.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.com [127.0.0.1]) by makeworld.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12E8A60ED; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:52:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from makeworld.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (makeworld.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 53695-07; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:52:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.92.228.34] (racerx.makeworld.com [198.92.228.34]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by makeworld.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBA2A60E4; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:52:40 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <41CC9DE0.6010500@makeworld.com> From: Chris User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041218) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <89b41e4704122303546aaa8d83@mail.gmail.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> <41CBA2D5.4070700@makeworld.com> <20041224142246.GB779@gothmog.gr> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by ClamAV 0.75.1/amavisd-new-2.2.0 (20041102) at makeworld.com - Isn't it ironic X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-www@freebsd.org, Giorgos Keramidas , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Nikolas Britton , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:56 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:53:20 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:56 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Giorgos Keramidas writes: > >>On 2004-12-23 23:02, Chris wrote: >> >>>Nikolas Britton wrote: >>> >>>>2. I cringe when I see Times New Roman, again redo the whole site >>>>with a modern web font: Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Etc. (ever here of >>>>Cascading Style Sheets?) >>> >>>CSS? Isnt that a bit outdated? Isnt that more a Windows thing? > Responding to Chris: CSS is neither outdated nor a Windows thing. You > apparently need to get an extra clue or two before you rejoin this > discussion. Not really - Some years back MS made a big issue about CSS. It was then that I lost interest in web devel. Besides - web devel isn't my bag, so I really don't think that I need to have or get a clue. One does not need to know how to rebuild an engine to know how to drive the car. -- Best regards, Chris You can't expect to hit the jackpot if you don't put a few nickles in the machine. _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:57 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B93D16A49A; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4C8443E80; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 81A225DCDC; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:08:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E3675C9BB for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 16:52:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B73A56AB5; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:52:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9389616A4F2; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:52:40 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E034016A4CE; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:51:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from rambo.401.cx (rambo.401.cx [80.65.205.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151B243D39; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:51:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (rocky [192.168.200.2]) by rambo.401.cx (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBS0pe84055972; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:51:40 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Message-ID: <41D0AF75.6040500@401.cx> From: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (Windows/20040803) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Simon Burke References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <2d7d2dd2041223035969e056d8@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <2d7d2dd2041223035969e056d8@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0453-0, 12/27/2004), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:57 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:57:25 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:57 -0000 Simon Burke wrote: [snip] >>2. If it wasn't for the interesting content and structure of the FreeBSD >> website, it would be among the less beautiful. Yes, it serves its >> purpose well by being simple and straight to the point. But a redesign >> could offer just the same -- simplicity and accuracy -- without being >> ugly. > > > Aesthetics are not everything, the web site does what its supposed to > do. Also i actually like how it looks. > A lot of people have strong feelings about all these all singing all > dancing webistes. There is just no need. Keep it simple and easy to > navigate around thats all thats really important. If the aesthetics > really matter more than function to such people who use BSD then they > would probably be not using BSD but either windows or linux, where you > have a nice pretty GUI to look at all the nice pretty sites. This is where I think a lot of people simply does not understand the problem. Im a FreeBSD user. I like FreeBSD because it does not have all the flashy installers and pretty GUI's that many linux distros seems to have today. But still, Ive been screaming for years for someone to improve the website. Why? Anyone that has stood in front of a boardroom full of CEO's or similar and tried to promote the use of FreeBSD in a big organisation knows why. They might like all the facts about the os, the rock-solid stability, the lightning-fast performance and its solid reputation as a server os, but one look at the website and they will run screaming towards the nearest linux advocate instead. We, the users, might not care about our image, but if we want to be taken seriously by the rest of the world we better do something about it! [snip] >>4. There should be some kind of FreeBSD business card and letterhead >> available to all that support this project. > > > I have to ask why? why would people need such things? that i just dont > understand Clearly, you have not tried to "sell" FreeBSD to a big corporation. -- R _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:57 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8442616A481; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5212843E52; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BDBB25DCDB; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4CFA5C9A7 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:10:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 442DC5732F; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 06:09:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFD1416A517; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 06:09:46 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D4716A4CE; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 06:09:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sccimhc91.asp.att.net (sccimhc91.asp.att.net [63.240.76.165]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C15943D2F; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 06:09:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@nbritton.org) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (12-223-129-46.client.insightbb.com[12.223.129.46]) by sccimhc91.asp.att.net (sccimhc91) with ESMTP id <20041224060933i9100rfpj2e>; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 06:09:34 +0000 Message-ID: <41CBB299.4020707@nbritton.org> From: Nikolas Britton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041219) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <89b41e4704122303546aaa8d83@mail.gmail.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> <41CBA2D5.4070700@makeworld.com> In-Reply-To: <41CBA2D5.4070700@makeworld.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Daniel Blendea , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, jsha , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Paul Richards Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:57 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:09:29 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:57 -0000 Chris wrote: > Nikolas Britton wrote: > >> >>>> From a business perspective we look amateurish. >>> >>> > > I have held off thus far... > >>> >> I REALLY REALLY agree with this point, from the prospective of an >> outsider the website and "Image" conveys a real lack of >> professionalism, which is not true. > > > No you don't - would you prefer multi-colored windows? A penguin? What? hmm?, fuck no I hate penguins (esp Linux ones), there's nothing wrong with chucky > Are we looking into the geo-political correctness as in the like as > the NetBSD project took? No, just a better image in the enterprises and data centers of the world. > >> I'm looking at the start page for FreeBSD right now and here are the >> things I do not like about it (please don't be offended if I step on >> toe's and ego's, I am only trying to better FreeBSD): > > > Here we go - Let's just re engineer life as we know it. Lets also not > offend gays, users of color, males, females, users of religion, users > of no religion, users of Windows, users of Linux, users of DOS, users > of NetWare, etc, etc, etc. How did you extrapolate that from what I said? I guess I did step your toe's and ego, I was only trying to give constructive criticism. > >> 1. The "FreeBSD" logo is crap, not beastie (he's a keeper!!!, I'll >> hunt you down and do bad things to you if you take him away!), Just >> the black wannabe (and badly done) 3D effect "FreeBSD" part, really, >> I hate it. Redo the whole logo in photoshop with a bold, antialiased >> modern web font: (Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Century Gothic, etc.) >> and forget the whole 3D effect as that is so 90s. Generally all of >> your logo designs are unprofessional (the logos at the bottom of the >> page: FreeBSD MALL, UseNix, Daemon News, and Powered by FreeBSD for >> example) > > > You will do no such thing - see above, read the threads on the NetBSD > site as to the redoing of the "logo" I DON'T want it "redesigned" (like NetBSD did) just re-done... same logo just better looking, image is everything you know. > >> 2. I cringe when I see Times New Roman, again redo the whole site >> with a modern web font: Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Etc. (ever here of >> Cascading Style Sheets?) > > > CSS? Isnt that a bit outdated? Isnt that more a Windows thing? No, it's a web standard: http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/ also it would be a good idea to look into XHTML: http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/ > >> 3. The color scheme is not "complementary" anyone who has been to art >> school or taken design classes will know what I talking about, read >> up about basic color theory here: >> http://www.color-wheel-pro.com/color-theory-basics.html (again, ever >> here of Cascading Style Sheets??) > > > Guess what mate - most of us are NOT into art. Yes I can tell, I was trying to offer some helpfull tips > Get real. Deal with the OS, not the look and feel of the site. Do I > really care if a design has passion blue opposed to blue? Yes > > Do you really thing techies are THAT into pastels? I don't like pastels ether, to girly, I like bold and neutral colors. > If you want to re design something (Actually - is sounds like you have > been watching way too much TLC) then get a gig on Monster House. I watch the history channel most of the time or the courses offered by the local college on channel 20 , I really think TLC has gone down hill with all the trading spaces type shows, though page is cute. It's just that I've always had a good eye for this type of stuff. > > >> 4. I like the Beastie logo on the boot loader screen but ASCII art is >> unprofessional... It would be better if you made the color ASCII >> beastie the default. > > > Who cares?!?! It's resource friendly tho... That is true. > >> I have no real issues with the layout of the site and it would be >> nice if the installer was more user friendly but I am content with >> the way it is, maybe you should change the color scheme of the >> installer to match the website? > > > Snip - not worth repeating. > >> FreeBSD is badly in need of a PR/Design/Marketing department. > > > Maybe you can start, The Queer-Eye for the BSD-Guy. If thats what it takes to get FreeBSD out of obscurity and into the enterprise then yes I will, just look at what apple did with BSD and mozilla did with firefox, I don't want to see FreeBSD (or the other BSDs) die into obscurity as I really like them. _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:10:57 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BC9A16A4A3; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:10:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB01A43E77; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A66E55DCF9; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 503F95C8B1 for ; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 06:46:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E02F55886; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 14:46:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57F016A4D5; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 14:46:36 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4851C16A4CE; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 14:46:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sccimhc91.asp.att.net (sccimhc91.asp.att.net [63.240.76.165]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99BD043D46; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 14:46:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@nbritton.org) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (12-223-129-46.client.insightbb.com[12.223.129.46]) by sccimhc91.asp.att.net (sccimhc91) with ESMTP id <20041225144626i9100rfuvme>; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 14:46:33 +0000 Message-ID: <41CD7D41.4070206@nbritton.org> From: Nikolas Britton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041219) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Colin J. Raven" References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> <41CBA2D5.4070700@makeworld.com> <20041224142246.GB779@gothmog.gr> <41CC9DE0.6010500@makeworld.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-www@freebsd.org, Giorgos Keramidas , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:58 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 08:46:25 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:10:58 -0000 Colin J. Raven wrote: > On Dec 25, Dag-Erling Smørgrav launched this into the bitstream: > >> Chris writes: >> >>> One does not need to know how to rebuild an engine to know how to >>> drive the car. >> >> >> One should not criticize the design of an engine while vehemently >> claiming to have no interest in how enginges are built. > > > One should not buy a car without at least knowing the general specs of > the engine. One should not buy a car without at least looking under the hood, kicking the tires, and taking it for a test drive. Merry Christmas, Nikolas _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:11:22 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6AB016A41C; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:11:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 882B043E74; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 88D505DCF4; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AED735C991 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 17:26:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3932D56CC7; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 01:25:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AAD016A4EF; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 01:25:50 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1856E16A4CE; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 01:25:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from makeworld.com (makeworld.com [198.92.228.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A47FF43D2F; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 01:25:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from racerx@makeworld.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.com [127.0.0.1]) by makeworld.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7886E60ED; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 19:25:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from makeworld.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (makeworld.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 54454-04; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 19:25:36 -0600 (CST) Received: from [198.92.228.34] (racerx.makeworld.com [198.92.228.34]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by makeworld.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA12060E4; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 19:25:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <41CCC1B7.4090008@makeworld.com> From: Chris User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041218) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <89b41e4704122303546aaa8d83@mail.gmail.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> <41CBA2D5.4070700@makeworld.com> <20041224142246.GB779@gothmog.gr> <41CC9DE0.6010500@makeworld.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by ClamAV 0.75.1/amavisd-new-2.2.0 (20041102) at makeworld.com - Isn't it ironic X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-www@freebsd.org, Giorgos Keramidas , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Nikolas Britton , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:11:22 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 19:26:15 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:11:22 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Chris writes: > >>Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: >> >>>Responding to Chris: CSS is neither outdated nor a Windows thing. You >>>apparently need to get an extra clue or two before you rejoin this >>>discussion. >> >>Not really - Some years back MS made a big issue about CSS. It was >>then that I lost interest in web devel. Besides - web devel isn't my >>bag, so I really don't think that I need to have or get a clue. > > > CSS is a W3 standard, but was originally designed by the CTO of Opera > Software, a company which is one of Microsoft's more vocal detractors > and which recently received a large settlement in a lawsuit regarding > Microsoft's (alleged) intentional efforts to make their website render > poorly in Opera's browser. IE handles CSS1 badly, and CSS2 almost not > at all. Calling it a Windows thing severely misrepresents the facts. > > >>One does not need to know how to rebuild an engine to know how to >>drive the car. > > > One should not criticize the design of an engine while vehemently > claiming to have no interest in how enginges are built. > > DES Technically - I didn't criticize. Allow me to post verbatim; "CSS? Isnt that a bit outdated? Isnt that more a Windows thing?" Doesn't look like it to me - looks more like a query or two. But that's just me tho - perhaps you read something else? Perhaps too much eggnog? Perhaps not enough? -- Best regards, Chris _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:11:38 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03CA016A420; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:11:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E88FA43E82; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9AAC15DCE3; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:08:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8B85C9AA for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:41:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF7956999; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:41:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D47516A4D9; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:41:01 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29E7D16A4CF; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:40:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from rambo.401.cx (rambo.401.cx [80.65.205.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C2043D54; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:40:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (rocky [192.168.200.2]) by rambo.401.cx (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBTIen84089866; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:40:49 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Message-ID: <41D2FB92.9020508@401.cx> From: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (Windows/20040803) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Mittelstaedt References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0453-0, 12/27/2004), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Simon Burke Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:11:38 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:46:42 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:11:38 -0000 Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- From: >> owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org >> [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Roger >> 'Rocky' Vetterberg Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 4:57 PM To: >> Simon Burke Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org; >> freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; >> freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual >> Identity: Outdated? >> >> >> Simon Burke wrote: [snip] >> >>>> 2. If it wasn't for the interesting content and structure of >>>> the FreeBSD website, it would be among the less beautiful. >>>> Yes, it serves its purpose well by being simple and straight >>>> to the point. But >> >> a redesign >> >>>> could offer just the same -- simplicity and accuracy -- >>>> without being ugly. >>> >>> >>> Aesthetics are not everything, the web site does what its >>> supposed to do. Also i actually like how it looks. A lot of >>> people have strong feelings about all these all singing all >>> dancing webistes. There is just no need. Keep it simple and >>> easy to navigate around thats all thats really important. If >>> the aesthetics really matter more than function to such people >>> who use BSD then they would probably be not using BSD but >>> either windows or linux, where you have a nice pretty GUI to >>> look at all the nice pretty sites. >> >> This is where I think a lot of people simply does not understand >> the problem. > > > Roger I understand the problem, I wrote a book on FreeBSD > integration in 2000. The problem is I think you don't understand > the problem. > > >> Im a FreeBSD user. I like FreeBSD because it does not have all >> the flashy installers and pretty GUI's that many linux distros >> seems to have today. > > > That frankly isn't the reason you should like it. You should like > it because it works better than most commercial operating systems > let alone most operating systems. "The" reason? Like there was only one reason to like an os? I like FreeBSD due to its lack of bells and whistles, but I also like it due to its stability, performance, ease of use and license, among many other reasons. Maybe I should have made that more clear, I do not wish to come across as a guy that favours an os based on one reason alone. >> But still, Ive been screaming for years for someone to improve >> the website. Why? Anyone that has stood in front of a boardroom >> full of CEO's or similar and tried to promote the use of FreeBSD >> in a big organisation knows why. They might like all the facts >> about the os, the rock-solid stability, the lightning-fast >> performance and its solid reputation as a server os, but one look >> at the website and they will run screaming towards the nearest >> linux advocate instead. > > Most of the CEO's I've dealt with don't give a shit on a shingle > about a product website. What they care about is: 'can what I need > done be done in a way that is a) cheap and b) works and c) won't > lock me in to you' I think we have a missunderstanding here. I already work for a big corporation. When I said that I was trying to sell FreeBSD, I meant that I was trying to get the company that I work for to chose FreeBSD over some other product. Im not a consultant of any kind, Im a fulltime employed technician trying to keep my employers network up and running. > FreeBSD meets criteria A and B really well but it does not meet C. > Linux meets A and B but BARELY meets C. Windows definitely meets C > and usually meets B and doesen't usually meet A. > > The problem of course is that A and C are related. If I am a CEO > and I sign a FreeBSD or Linux deal - and you are a sole-source > provider, then once I have all my business processes into you, I'm > locked into you. Once that happens my thought processes are that > your going to become very expensive to me - why, because there's no > competition to you out there. I'm not going to do that unless I > trust you implicitly. And there's very few business people I am > ever going to trust implicitly, save perhaps unless your a son or > daughter, and even then I may not. > > You have to understand of course that this is old-school knee-jerk > thinking. The CEO's are scared to death of you Roger. They don't > understand what your selling, they don't understand how to > integrate technology into their systems, they don't even understand > their current system. As I explained earlier, Im not selling anything. We are several technicians at my company, some of us prefer BSD while others prefer linux, windows, sun or whatever the flavour of the day is. Everytime we get a new bunch of servers or a new task needs to be done, there is a religious war before we decide what os to use. Most of the time, the board wants a say in decisions like this, and BSD almost always loses this, due to a very unproffesional image. Since the company already has the expertise inhouse, the hardware has been ordered and everything is paid, they dont give a shit about price. When I tell them that BSD can do everything they want and do it good, they listen. When I tell them that its free, they listen but they dont really care. When the linux guys makes exactly the same claims and also is able to back it up with proffesional looking websites with success-stories cluttered all over them, they usually decide to go with linux and goes to lunch. [snip] >> We, the users, might not care about our image, but if we want to >> be taken seriously by the rest of the world we better do >> something about it! >> > I would suggest that if you really are this lit up about this issue > that you direct your customers to you OWN website which is quite > obviously superior to the FreeBSD one. As I said, Im not a consultant or anything, Im just an employee. I do not have a website of my own. >> Clearly, you have not tried to "sell" FreeBSD to a big >> corporation. >> > Roger you are just being impatient. You haven't defined 'big' here "Big" as in 6000 employees spread across a few european countries. > but if you mean 'big' in that the company has over 500 employees > in an office building, then even you must know that the check > signers in these companies are almost never under the age of 40. > Most of them are over 40 and most of them came up through the sales > ranks, and not through the technology ranks. These are people who > 25 years ago were partying their way through a business degree in > some university and the only thing that they really know well is > how to sell their companies products. That's why they work at a > big company, didn't you know? Deep down they know they are > incompetents and they are too scared to go out on their own even > when they could make triple the money if they really knew what they > were doing. > > They don't really understand anything about technology > infrastructure and they certainly didn't go to grade school or high > school with a personal computer in the house, like kids today. > And the worst part is that they matriculated during the time that > in business education in this country that the 'cog in the machine' > aspect of workers was totally emphasized. Their professors drilled > into their heads the idea that every worker in the company must be > interchangable and they deep down detest and hate the idea of there > being any such thing as 'key employees' > > Why do you think that the current federal government administration > just takes the position that workers need to retrain to the new > economy, as if just retraining 100 million people every 5 years to > new jobs is a good way to run the economy? This is a message that > comes straight out of that generation and resonates with todays big > business movers and shakers. That is why these people are doing > such a terrible job mucking up American big business today, the > current debacle with the airline industry is proof of that, and the > amount of bankruptcies over the last 6 years has been breathtaking. > Very few of these idiots are anything more than closet control > freaks. > > To be successful in todays market you have to be able to > individualize your products to what the customers in the market > want, and there is no way for a big business to do that without > really drastically increasing the complexity of it's business > workflow. Customers today want you to stock 100 variations of your > product and build all of them to order, and they want it for the > same price that 20 years ago they would buy the cookie-cutter > version you could sell them for. The only way to do that is to > integrate technology completely in every last speck of business > process that a big company does, and it takes a crew of key > technicians to do that. The few big companies that have learned > this aren't asking consultants what the damn operating system is > going to be on the computer systems they are asking the consultants > to build for them. They are telling the consultants 'this is what > the end result needs to be, you either figure out how to get it > for us using whatever things you want to use to get there, or get > the hell out' > > Roger, you really need to be dumbing down your presentations, these > CEO's your presenting to really don't understand all those big > words. Instead of using "FreeBSD" use "UNIX" It's shorter and > even the most sheltered of them understand that yooouu-nikx is > something that runs computers like winders is. And rather than > telling them how many mega-bytes and giga-bits the nice new server > is going to run at, just tell them it's going to be big, and fast > and powerful like Arnold Schwartznegger. Get them sold on the idea > that your providing a -solution to their problems- not that your > providing them some freebsd system that is real cool and does > something they are pretty fuzzy about exactly what. If they start > asking you exactly how your going to do this don't get sidetracked > into a technologists conversation. I advocate a more proffesional looking image, and you shoot me down and then tells me I need more bells and whistles in my presentations? Im confused! My arguments to improve FreeBSD's image are almost identical to the ones you listed above. For all I care the firstpage of freebsd.org could be a big picture of Schwartznegger with a BSD tattoe on his biceps, but try to suggest even a change of font on the site and people freak out. > > In fact you might just consider hiring a professional salesperson > that doesen't really know too much about what your selling. These > CEO's really are more interested in things like when your going to > be finished building the new system, who is going to train the end > users, how is it going to help them make money, how much money are > they going to have to pay for it upfront, and how much money they > are going to have to pay for it ongoing. The salesperson should be > figuring all that out with them first. You shouldn't even be > talking about operating systems until you have sold them on > yourself and your company, and if FreeBSD really is an objection to > them, then they should like you enough so that they want you to > build a Linux solution for them. Once you get them hooked and > after a year or so you can switch them over to FreeBSD. > I could be wrong, but I think we are suggesting basically the same thing, just on different places. You seem to think that I should cover up FreeBSD's amateurish look by creating a protective shell of fancy words and presentations. I suggest that we put the energy on actually fixing the image, and thereby eliminating the need of a shell. Unfortunally, I have seen this discussion go down so many times by now that I already knows how it ends. The people that tries to make a difference is scared away by the "dont touch my website" crowd. I will continue to advocate the use of FreeBSD, with or without help from the official website, but Im still hoping that someday maybe people will realize that not all decisions are made based upon the quality of the source, but on general appearance as well. -- R _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:11:54 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B39316A433; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:11:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFC0D43E85; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BB5C55DD09; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:08:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F62A5C9A7 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 00:23:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4377055ABB; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:22:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFCF716A4CE; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:22:54 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E1AA16A4CE; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:22:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B20343D1D; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:22:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedwin2k (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) iBT8Mfv87971; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 00:22:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Nikolas Britton" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <41D1567F.9000901@nbritton.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS autolearn=no version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-www@freebsd.org, Simon Burke , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:11:55 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 00:22:41 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:11:55 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Nikolas Britton > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 4:50 AM > To: Ted Mittelstaedt > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; > freebsd-www@freebsd.org; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Simon Burke > Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? > > > Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > >What they care about is: 'can what I need done > >be done in a way that is a) cheap and b) works and c) won't lock me > >in to you' > > > > > d) support. e) what everyone else uses. Most companys only care about d > and e as windows is nether a, b, or c... umm how'd it go... "No one ever > got fired for buying IBM" > If you think about it, d and e are the same thing as a and c. What does support constitute to the average CEO? If you asked them they would say that it's the ability to pick up the phone and get the problem fixed, right? Well guess what - you can do that with FreeBSD, there's paid incident support here: http://www.bsdmall.com/fbsdpay4tech.html about the same cost as the Microsoft offering, as a matter of fact. If you tell them that, they will sit back, scratch their head, and eventually say something along the lines of 'well I can just call any joe blow in the yellow pages for windows questions' And they are right. Because there's lots of so-called 'windows consultants' out there who are to put it bluntly, so piss-poor that they will give you gobs of free-but-worthless support over the phone in an attempt to get an appointment with you for some billable time. And if that doesen't work well, my kid brother has a computer that he plays Doom on all the time so he must be a computer sexpert, right? The people selling commercial FreeBSD support want a lot of money - but in exchange you get support that is actually worth what you pay for. The people selling commercial Windows support are all over the map - some do want a lot of money for good support, others will take a little bit of money for crap support. The CEOs that don't know any better figure that the cheap support is as good as the expensive support - so they then classify the expensive support (both windows and freebsd) in the 'nonexistent' category and then tell you with a straight face that freebsd is not supported. Now, if your talking hardware support - then please, yes there's lots of cheapskates running offices who are buying winprinters so they can save $50, we know that. And paying double for the ink cartridges, yes I know that one too. And as for the every one else uses it - where do you see this most? It's in the companies that don't want to spend a cent on training people. They want to hire their secretaries out of the local 1 year business prep school and put them to work writing letters with Microsoft Word, because that is all the business prep school trains them to do. What is missed of course is that since those sorts of people are only good for plunking down in front of a Windows XP system with Microsoft Word on it, after those people get finished writing your Microsoft Word document, they spend the last 6 hours of the day downloading new screensavers, changing the fonts on their computers, instant messaging their friends, etc. If instead you plunked them down in front of a FreeBSD system running XFree, after they got done with writing the memo you wanted them to write, they would be unable to idle away time on the computer, and you might actually get some useful work out of them. If you don't believe this take a look at the Microsoft desktop offerings. Microsoft is belatedly waking up to this and ever since NT, a skilled Windows admin can go in and lock down every scrap of anything on all his Windows NT, 2K, or XP desktops so that the secretaries can't do anything other than what their job is. And more and more companies are starting to do this, or at least try doing it. > Know your market, we are not trying to get them to switch to FreeBSD > from Windows, we are the alternative to the alternative for a company > that has already decide to go with the alternative instead of windows. > you might be. But your fighting the hardest battle. Unlike you I'm out there showing them how many tens of thousands of dollars they are going to save by not buying a new server that is running XP Pro Server, and Microsoft Exchange, and all the other nasty proprietary business software that Microsoft has designed to leech onto your company. > > VERY few customers are willing to deviate > >from Microsoft, at least not in the Western states. > > > On the desktop yes, but where not talking about desktops here, where > talking about servers and Linux has its claws all over the server market. > The Linux people are also talking about desktops. In fact, they are concentrating more on the desktops now than on the servers, that is why the Linux distros all have GUI installers and the like. When was the last time you installed Linux? Today's Linux is designed to be installed by a non-technical user, same as Windows. > > > >I would suggest that if you really are this lit up about this issue > >that you direct your customers to you OWN website which is quite > obviously > >superior to the FreeBSD one. > > > > > Now thats just asinine. > Not it is not. He is trying to sell himself and his company. Why in the heck shouldn't he be directing his customers to himself and his companies website? Geeze - the FreeBSD website not only has FreeBSD info it has lists of OTHER consultants. Why on earth would a consultant making a presentation want to direct the customer to a site that would give the customer a list of competitors? > > > I'm sorry to say but anyone outside of IT/IS/MIS has no clue what UNIX > is. at best they mistake it for Linux. > Then don't even mention UNIX or Windows at all. > >And rather > >than telling them how many mega-bytes and giga-bits the nice > >new server is going to run at, just tell them it's going to be > >big, and fast and powerful like Arnold Schwartznegger. > > > I agree with you about the megabit and bytes but you have gone to far to > the other extreme, they are not stupid, the CEO's job is to keep the > company afloat not know what a megabyte is, this is why we have CTOs and > CIOs. > Exactly - which is why as I said before (and you cut) the sales presentation is going to be a dud if all you do is sit there talking about how great this FreeBSD product is. When you go into one of these sales deals the CEO should be told exactly TWO things: that you can solve his problem, and how much it's going to cost. Everything else in the presentation is simply a lead in for these two things. The problem is that too many people that do these kinds of presentations don't understand that what they are selling is themselves. They think that "I'm going to try to go into that there customer and sell them a new server" Nowhere in their thought processes is the idea that they are there to find out what the customers problem is exactly, and sell THEMSELVES as the solution to it. I've seen a lot of these presentations and been in a lot where the customer tells the presenter what his problem is and the first words out of the presenters mouth is 'well you need a new server' It's like you might as well leave then. The presenter should be saying 'well you don't have enough space/you don't have enough speed/ your network has no virus protection/you don't have a database/etc/etc/etc and WE CAN FIX that. In short, the presenter needs to regurgitate the customers problem, and tell the customer they can fix it, and how much it is gonna cost. Period. It's not the presenters job to tell the customer how they are going to fix it - if the customer knew that, the presenter wouldn't even be there. > Again this is are target market; consultants, integrators, vars, etc. I > bet 80% of them don't even know FreeBSD exists and of the 20% that do > only 20% would consider using and recommending it based on technical > merit alone. > A var that has a thriving Linux consultancy and no FreeBSD experience isn't going to buy into FreeBSD. The only time your going to get a consultant with no FreeBSD experience into looking at FreeBSD is if they can't make a go of it with their existing product line, or if they have never done consulting before and are just starting out. The var/integrator/consultancy market has a certain amount of attrition every year, companies form and break up every year. There's always new people coming into the market and old people leaving it. Some of those new consultants are going to have prior FreeBSD experience and will want to leverage that. The support they need from the FreeBSD Project is stuff like my book, good tech support assistance, and overall a strong stable OS. Ted _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:11:59 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B0316A420; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:11:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CC6243E79; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:09:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B279C5DCFD; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74AC15C981 for ; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 01:33:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33AE0557B9; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 09:33:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D16916A4D5; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 09:33:22 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6926C16A4CE; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 09:33:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from kenmore.kozy-kabin.nl (fia148-72.dsl.hccnet.nl [62.251.72.148]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACAA843D45; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 09:33:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from colin@kenmore.kozy-kabin.nl) Received: from localhost (colin@localhost) by kenmore.kozy-kabin.nl (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id iBP77M600426; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 08:07:22 +0100 (CET) From: "Colin J. Raven" To: =?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <20041223133440.GC786@myrddin.originative.co.uk> <41CB9F16.1010405@nbritton.org> <41CBA2D5.4070700@makeworld.com> <20041224142246.GB779@gothmog.gr> <41CC9DE0.6010500@makeworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Chris , freebsd-www@freebsd.org, Giorgos Keramidas , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Nikolas Britton , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:12:00 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 08:07:21 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:12:00 -0000 On Dec 25, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav launched this into the bitstream: > Chris writes: > >> One does not need to know how to rebuild an engine to know how to >> drive the car. > > One should not criticize the design of an engine while vehemently > claiming to have no interest in how enginges are built. One should not buy a car without at least knowing the general specs of=20 the engine. _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:12:01 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D85CF16A422; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:12:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0694543E3D; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:08:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 01B105DCC1; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:07:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D797A5C900 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:54:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30ECF56285; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:54:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B1B16A4D7; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:54:36 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74EF16A4CE for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:54:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C360343D58 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:54:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bdaniel7@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z35so116513rne for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:54:31 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=MvORpV7z2gniQZSx2P/HR7rVn2vOxqzlh6fiuDbpk/6hF1ovLVKoEyyDub83qcyWSlMPW8YgTWJkvOdiQAXz9mou6WRFG/eeSCpxcxbCiHfAuktHtMlwUrrHVZya8OScqLH3iPUEZRZIXwhmCQgn4IrLcgVmLChjcaplESkaPfs= Received: by 10.39.3.42 with SMTP id f42mr476819rni; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:54:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.104.1 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:54:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <89b41e4704122303546aaa8d83@mail.gmail.com> From: Daniel Blendea To: jsha In-Reply-To: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DEAR_SOMETHING, RCVD_BY_IP autolearn=no version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Reply-To: Daniel Blendea List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:12:01 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:54:31 +0200 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:12:01 -0000 1. bu**s**it, Beastie is **COOL** and would be a loss of identity if the logo would change; Dear Sir, please read the page where what greek daemons are explained.. 2. again, bu**s**it, the colors are not ugly at ALL, - and i'm not a fan of site's color theme coz i prefer blue-ish colors - again, think about identity...whenever one FreeBSD'er sees the logo/colors - on software packages, media and the like - he will know that product is related to FreeBSD 3. please install FreeBSD couple of times, and afterwards you'll get to install it eyes- closed.. thank you for reading and please excuse my excited tone, Daniel On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:27:31 +0100, jsha wrote: > > Hello. > > I am writing this e-mail hoping that someone will share my thoughts > on how the world's best operating system should represent its attributes > and users to the rest of the world. > > Being an architect as well as graphic designer, I feel it is about time > for a complete revamp of the visual aesthetics of the FreeBSD project. > The current logo and everything pertaining to it has long since lost its > modern touch. I believe that if this image is strenghtened, so is the > way outsiders view the FreeBSD project and the way they would judge it > compared to other open source operating systems. > > 1. Not only is the logo misleading (associating evil) but it also looks > like something 10-year-olds could produce in Paint Shop Pro ten years > ago. OpenBSD has an artistic touch to theirs, however I was very > disappointed when I heard that the new NetBSD logo was in effect. > > 2. If it wasn't for the interesting content and structure of the FreeBSD > website, it would be among the less beautiful. Yes, it serves its > purpose well by being simple and straight to the point. But a redesign > could offer just the same -- simplicity and accuracy -- without being > ugly. > > 3. The installation, even though it's text-only, could also be improved > by simple restructuring to act more cognitive and human-centered than > previously. Everything pertaining to the eye is important to improve. > > 4. There should be some kind of FreeBSD business card and letterhead > available to all that support this project. > > How do I know though, that if I manage to pull together a team to work > on this refined vision, that we won't be totally ignored even though we > produce the most magnificent result? > > Anyone that are interested, please reply ;-) > > Sincerely, > Johann Manaf Tepstad > -- > j. > > > _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:22:53 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 055E316A424; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:22:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6398A4411B; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:15:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CD1E960759; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:15:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 826F75CA23 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:22:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2AEC556D8; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 00:22:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C77016A4CE; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 00:22:29 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-bugs@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2426D16A4CE; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 00:22:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF57F43D2F; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 00:22:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from linimon@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (linimon@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j390MQGt007151; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 00:22:26 GMT (envelope-from linimon@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from linimon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j390MQPD007147; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 00:22:26 GMT (envelope-from linimon) From: Mark Linimon Message-Id: <200504090022.j390MQPD007147@freefall.freebsd.org> To: linimon@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: Re: www/79699: Website vendor listing X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:22:53 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 00:22:26 GMT X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:22:53 -0000 Synopsis: Website vendor listing Class-Changed-From-To: sw-bug->change-request Class-Changed-By: linimon Class-Changed-When: Sat Apr 9 00:21:46 GMT 2005 Class-Changed-Why: www category. Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-bugs->freebsd-www Responsible-Changed-By: linimon Responsible-Changed-When: Sat Apr 9 00:21:46 GMT 2005 Responsible-Changed-Why: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=79699 _______________________________________________ freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-bugs To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-bugs-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 00:24:02 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8F1C16A45B; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:24:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1C1044204; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:15:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 17CFE607F9; Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:15:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ps@mu.org Delivered-To: ps@mu.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 040835CA07 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 00:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02DF355ED8; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:35:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C4216A4D2; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:35:36 +0000 (GMT) Delivered-To: freebsd-bugs@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2703F16A4CE; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:35:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE15143D58; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:35:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from simon@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (simon@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j3I7ZWVQ069115; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:35:32 GMT (envelope-from simon@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from simon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j3I7ZWIm069111; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:35:32 GMT (envelope-from simon) From: "Simon L. Nielsen" Message-Id: <200504180735.j3I7ZWIm069111@freefall.freebsd.org> To: simon@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on elvis.mu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Subject: Re: www/80051: vendor submission X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:24:02 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 07:35:32 GMT X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:24:02 -0000 Synopsis: vendor submission Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-bugs->freebsd-www Responsible-Changed-By: simon Responsible-Changed-When: Mon Apr 18 07:35:16 GMT 2005 Responsible-Changed-Why: Correct category. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=80051 _______________________________________________ freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-bugs To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-bugs-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 09:49:25 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C4C516A41C for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 09:49:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nail@whitemesa.com) Received: from ip3e8390c3.speed.planet.nl (ip3e8390c3.speed.planet.nl [62.131.144.195]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C85C943D49 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 09:49:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nail@whitemesa.com) Received: from [215.217.232.189] (port=4569 helo=[teacup]) by ip3e8390c3.speed.planet.nl with esmtp id 8426474678ejaculated84905 for freebsd-www@freebsd.org; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:49:23 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v728) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <3439713709.174489667@ip3e8390c3.speed.planet.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org From: Betsy Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:49:22 +0200 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.728) Subject: Get the Software you need, now! X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 09:49:25 -0000 Let your computer be the PRO! http://kchhkfx.d2hayud6a5d2awd.canellaih.info The world is extremely interesting to a joyful soul. Treat your friend as if he might become an enemy. From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 17:10:10 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FCF516A41C for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:10:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5608843D49 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:10:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j63HAAAG078072 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:10:10 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j63HAAHC078070; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:10:10 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:10:10 GMT Resent-Message-Id: <200507031710.j63HAAHC078070@freefall.freebsd.org> Resent-From: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org (GNATS Filer) Resent-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Resent-Reply-To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, Daniel Gerzo Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B21216A41C for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:09:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danger@rulez.sk) Received: from mail.rulez.sk (DaEmoN.RuLeZ.sK [84.16.32.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0AAB43D4C for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:09:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danger@rulez.sk) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.rulez.sk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37ADE1CD50 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 19:09:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail.rulez.sk (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E992A1CD4C; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 19:09:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20050703170920.E992A1CD4C@mail.rulez.sk> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 19:09:20 +0200 (CEST) From: Daniel Gerzo To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.113 Cc: Subject: www/82935: Update and fix english in FreeBSD on Laptops article X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Daniel Gerzo List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 17:10:10 -0000 >Number: 82935 >Category: www >Synopsis: Update and fix english in FreeBSD on Laptops article >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-www >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sun Jul 03 17:10:09 GMT 2005 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Daniel Gerzo >Release: FreeBSD 5.4 i386 >Organization: rulez.sk >Environment: System: FreeBSD daemon.rulez.sk #2: Fri May 27 23:16:31 CEST 2005 danger@daemon.rulez.sk:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/daemon i386 >Description: The doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/laptop/article.sgml doesn't use proper english. I have also included little update for this article. >How-To-Repeat: check out: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/laptop/article.html >Fix: --- article.sgml.diff begins here --- --- article.sgml.orig Sun Jul 3 16:59:50 2005 +++ article.sgml Sun Jul 3 18:58:39 2005 @@ -45,8 +45,11 @@ The &os; Laptop Compatibility List. - For communications with other &os; laptop users, check out - the &a.mobile.name; list. + If you want to communicate with other &os; laptop users, + checkout the &a.mobile.name; list. 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From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 22:30:20 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A4216A41C for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:30:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CD7643D45 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:30:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j63MUK32011446 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:30:20 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j63MUKEE011444; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:30:20 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:30:20 GMT Message-Id: <200507032230.j63MUKEE011444@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org From: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: Subject: Re: www/82935: Update and fix english in FreeBSD on Laptops article X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Giorgos Keramidas List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 22:30:20 -0000 The following reply was made to PR www/82935; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Daniel Gerzo Cc: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org Subject: Re: www/82935: Update and fix english in FreeBSD on Laptops article Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 01:30:02 +0300 On 2005-07-03 19:09, Daniel Gerzo wrote: > --- article.sgml.diff begins here --- > --- article.sgml.orig Sun Jul 3 16:59:50 2005 > +++ article.sgml Sun Jul 3 18:58:39 2005 > @@ -45,8 +45,11 @@ > The &os; > Laptop Compatibility List. > > - For communications with other &os; laptop users, check out > - the &a.mobile.name; list. > + If you want to communicate with other &os; laptop users, > + checkout the &a.mobile.name; list. You can also get additional > + information about using Laptops on &os; at > + > + http://tuxmobil.org/mobile_bsd.html. Nice diff. I only have a minor comment. When the content of a element is just the URL itself, it's probably better to leave the content of the element empty -- the stylesheets will take care of duplicating the URL in the generated link, i.e.: This doesn't duplicate the URL, making it double the effort to switch to a different URL and twice as error-prone (i.e. update one but forget the other). If this looks ok to the rest of the -www people, I can commit it with this minor change to the diff :-) - Giorgos From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 23:04:06 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BE6B16A41C; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 23:04:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from shrike.submonkey.net (cpc4-cdif2-3-1-cust199.cdif.cable.ntl.com [82.31.76.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 965D343D46; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 23:04:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.51 (FreeBSD)) id 1DpDVL-00087B-JX; Mon, 04 Jul 2005 00:04:03 +0100 Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 00:04:03 +0100 From: Ceri Davies To: Giorgos Keramidas Message-ID: <20050703230403.GC52761@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Giorgos Keramidas , freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org References: <200507032230.j63MUKEE011444@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="f+W+jCU1fRNres8c" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200507032230.j63MUKEE011444@freefall.freebsd.org> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: Ceri Davies Cc: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: www/82935: Update and fix english in FreeBSD on Laptops article X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 23:04:06 -0000 --f+W+jCU1fRNres8c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jul 03, 2005 at 10:30:20PM +0000, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > The following reply was made to PR www/82935; it has been noted by GNATS. >=20 > From: Giorgos Keramidas > To: Daniel Gerzo > Cc: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: www/82935: Update and fix english in FreeBSD on Laptops arti= cle > Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 01:30:02 +0300 >=20 > On 2005-07-03 19:09, Daniel Gerzo wrote: > > --- article.sgml.diff begins here --- > > --- article.sgml.orig Sun Jul 3 16:59:50 2005 > > +++ article.sgml Sun Jul 3 18:58:39 2005 > > @@ -45,8 +45,11 @@ > > The &= os; > > Laptop Compatibility List. > > =20 > > - For communications with other &os; laptop users, check out > > - the &a.mobile.name; list. > > + If you want to communicate with other &os; laptop users, > > + checkout the &a.mobile.name; list. You can also get additional > > + information about using Laptops on &os; at > > + > > + http://tuxmobil.org/mobile_bsd.html. > =20 > Nice diff. I only have a minor comment. When the content of a > element is just the URL itself, it's probably better to leave the > content of the element empty -- the stylesheets will take care of > duplicating the URL in the generated link, i.e.: > =20 > > =20 > This doesn't duplicate the URL, making it double the effort to switch to > a different URL and twice as error-prone (i.e. update one but forget the > other). > =20 > If this looks ok to the rest of the -www people, I can commit it with > this minor change to the diff :-) I'm happy with this, although "check out" is more correct than "checkout". Ceri --=20 Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Einstein (attrib.) --f+W+jCU1fRNres8c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFCyG7jocfcwTS3JF8RAplKAJ0fJ01lX+yO47Nb3VD3Te+7J2SDCwCgoVez pa6BraQc06nOLb3kl8k90vY= =hl70 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --f+W+jCU1fRNres8c-- From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 3 23:30:27 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE87416A41C for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 23:30:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADD2F43D45 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 23:30:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j63NURxg018082 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 23:30:27 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j63NURor018077; Sun, 3 Jul 2005 23:30:27 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 23:30:27 GMT Message-Id: <200507032330.j63NURor018077@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org From: Ceri Davies Cc: Subject: Re: www/82935: Update and fix english in FreeBSD on Laptops article X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ceri Davies List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 23:30:28 -0000 The following reply was made to PR www/82935; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Ceri Davies To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: www/82935: Update and fix english in FreeBSD on Laptops article Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 00:04:03 +0100 --f+W+jCU1fRNres8c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jul 03, 2005 at 10:30:20PM +0000, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > The following reply was made to PR www/82935; it has been noted by GNATS. >=20 > From: Giorgos Keramidas > To: Daniel Gerzo > Cc: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: www/82935: Update and fix english in FreeBSD on Laptops arti= cle > Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 01:30:02 +0300 >=20 > On 2005-07-03 19:09, Daniel Gerzo wrote: > > --- article.sgml.diff begins here --- > > --- article.sgml.orig Sun Jul 3 16:59:50 2005 > > +++ article.sgml Sun Jul 3 18:58:39 2005 > > @@ -45,8 +45,11 @@ > > The &= os; > > Laptop Compatibility List. > > =20 > > - For communications with other &os; laptop users, check out > > - the &a.mobile.name; list. > > + If you want to communicate with other &os; laptop users, > > + checkout the &a.mobile.name; list. You can also get additional > > + information about using Laptops on &os; at > > + > > + http://tuxmobil.org/mobile_bsd.html. > =20 > Nice diff. I only have a minor comment. When the content of a > element is just the URL itself, it's probably better to leave the > content of the element empty -- the stylesheets will take care of > duplicating the URL in the generated link, i.e.: > =20 > > =20 > This doesn't duplicate the URL, making it double the effort to switch to > a different URL and twice as error-prone (i.e. update one but forget the > other). > =20 > If this looks ok to the rest of the -www people, I can commit it with > this minor change to the diff :-) I'm happy with this, although "check out" is more correct than "checkout". Ceri --=20 Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Einstein (attrib.) --f+W+jCU1fRNres8c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFCyG7jocfcwTS3JF8RAplKAJ0fJ01lX+yO47Nb3VD3Te+7J2SDCwCgoVez pa6BraQc06nOLb3kl8k90vY= =hl70 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --f+W+jCU1fRNres8c-- From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 4 01:20:03 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64A6916A41C for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 01:20:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 275ED43D48 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 01:20:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j641K3Dq030499 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 01:20:03 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j641K3sH030498; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 01:20:03 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 01:20:03 GMT Resent-Message-Id: <200507040120.j641K3sH030498@freefall.freebsd.org> Resent-From: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org (GNATS Filer) Resent-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Resent-Reply-To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, Alex Huppenthal Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6436916A41C for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 01:12:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nobody@FreeBSD.org) Received: from www.freebsd.org (www.freebsd.org [216.136.204.117]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5091643D46 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 01:12:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nobody@FreeBSD.org) Received: from www.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.freebsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j641Cv69015828 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 01:12:57 GMT (envelope-from nobody@www.freebsd.org) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www.freebsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id j641CvDm015827; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 01:12:57 GMT (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200507040112.j641CvDm015827@www.freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 01:12:57 GMT From: Alex Huppenthal To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: www-2.3 Cc: Subject: www/82961: CSR's listing is way out of date X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 01:20:03 -0000 >Number: 82961 >Category: www >Synopsis: CSR's listing is way out of date >Confidential: no >Severity: serious >Priority: medium >Responsible: freebsd-www >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: change-request >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Mon Jul 04 01:20:02 GMT 2005 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Alex Huppenthal >Release: 4.x, 5.x >Organization: CSR Inc >Environment: >Description: CSR Corporation CSR Corporation is a Portland, OR, based consulting company with offices in Portland, OR; San Jose, CA; and Vero Beach, FL. CSR specializes in network applications for IPSs and CLECs, applying open network technologies for complete customer solutions. CSR has been in business since 1986. Telephone: 503-708-4330. >How-To-Repeat: go to the website and check on consultants... we're there, but its really old and the link is wrong. >Fix: CSR is an Aspen, Colorado based consulting company with offices in Portland, OR. We specialize in network applications, and Wireless Broadband managemnent for ISPs and WISPs. CSR has been in business since 1986. Telephone: 970 948 8809 >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 4 11:02:32 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22A0016A423 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:02:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0782643D58 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:02:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (peter@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j64B2VM6034741 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:02:31 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j64B2VrW034735 for freebsd-www@freebsd.org; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:02:31 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:02:31 GMT Message-Id: <200507041102.j64B2VrW034735@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: peter set sender to owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Current problem reports assigned to you X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:02:32 -0000 Current FreeBSD problem reports Critical problems Serious problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [2003/04/18] www/51135 www Problems with the mailing-lists search in o [2004/03/06] www/63854 www PR-web page loses text o [2005/07/04] www/82961 www CSR's listing is way out of date 3 problems total. Non-critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [2002/03/07] www/35647 www www; combine query-by-number and multi-fi s [2002/05/24] www/38500 www gnats web form is overenthusiastic about o [2002/10/17] www/44181 www www "Release Information" organization o [2004/01/24] www/61824 www Misleading documentation on FreeBSD insta o [2004/06/04] www/67554 www man-cgi visual glitch on 3-word titles o [2004/11/05] www/73549 www Mail list archive navigation difficulty o [2004/11/05] www/73551 www List archive 'quoted-printable' corruptio o [2005/01/05] www/75830 www ports.cgi used ports/INDEX from CVS o [2005/06/29] www/82761 www (PATCH) www/marketing/os-comparison.sgml, 9 problems total. From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 4 10:39:03 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6169816A41F; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:39:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36EEA43D49; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:39:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (keramida@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j64Ad3Ye032768; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:39:03 GMT (envelope-from keramida@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j64Ad0CE032764; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:39:00 GMT (envelope-from keramida) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:39:00 GMT From: Giorgos Keramidas Message-Id: <200507041039.j64Ad0CE032764@freefall.freebsd.org> To: danger@rulez.sk, keramida@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org, keramida@FreeBSD.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 14:25:43 +0000 Cc: Subject: Re: www/82935: Update and fix english in FreeBSD on Laptops article X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 10:39:03 -0000 Synopsis: Update and fix english in FreeBSD on Laptops article State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: keramida State-Changed-When: Mon Jul 4 10:38:38 GMT 2005 State-Changed-Why: Committed. Thanks :) Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-www->keramida Responsible-Changed-By: keramida Responsible-Changed-When: Mon Jul 4 10:38:38 GMT 2005 Responsible-Changed-Why: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=82935 From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 4 22:39:24 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E25D816A41C for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 22:39:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from uucomp@gmail.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A68A643D48 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 22:39:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from uucomp@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i4so806271wra for ; Mon, 04 Jul 2005 15:39:23 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=DU8EXPOpduVxh2afJAovqiMlnunwZ203M6DK1Mpg7XLjnFrtw54t29Dm0S1nciUp90oeK9c0L1m8Xk3N1Qwtnufxjvk2IIH4DdhqipNI++wL9dG56V/kb8cmNNtPNB82j/fNrXqZ/Wl0+NWF8CIa5byhzh0rSWPKKzenVUX0Nic= Received: by 10.54.45.7 with SMTP id s7mr3875241wrs; Mon, 04 Jul 2005 15:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.6.63 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 15:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <106f0ce005070415396489ddf7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 01:39:23 +0300 From: offer mairantz To: www@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: i have a problam X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: offer mairantz List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 22:39:25 -0000 i want to use frrebsd and i have a cable internet. i dont now whare can i find a guide for cable internet in freebsd if you can help me i whil tank you vary mach From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 5 07:26:28 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E3B16A41F for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 07:26:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Klan@robichaud.com) Received: from anq130.internetdsl.tpnet.pl (anq130.internetdsl.tpnet.pl [83.17.98.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 14D2E43D48 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 07:26:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Klan@robichaud.com) Received: from [39.72.220.77] (port=4029 helo=[Bacchus]) by anq130.internetdsl.tpnet.pl with esmtp id 1336698297Yellowknife1319 for freebsd-www@freebsd.org; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:31:01 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v728) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <4297343368.22341110234@anq130.internetdsl.tpnet.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: freebsd-www@freebsd.org From: Matty Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:31:00 +0200 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.728) Subject: Keeping your private medical issues... private X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 07:26:29 -0000 Welcome to the beginning of your sexual life using Viagra! http://yhutc.dsyohwvos5vlhed.seckjl.info Time didn't pass; it tailgated. 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From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 5 08:50:05 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C342316A41C for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:50:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8357E43D46 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:50:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j658o5qO036905 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:50:05 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j658o5lx036902; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:50:05 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:50:05 GMT Resent-Message-Id: <200507050850.j658o5lx036902@freefall.freebsd.org> Resent-From: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org (GNATS Filer) Resent-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Resent-Reply-To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, Krzysztof Kowalik Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D003516A424 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:42:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nobody@FreeBSD.org) Received: from www.freebsd.org (www.freebsd.org [216.136.204.117]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DE543D49 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:42:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nobody@FreeBSD.org) Received: from www.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.freebsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j658gAS1074810 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:42:11 GMT (envelope-from nobody@www.freebsd.org) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www.freebsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id j658TPch069602; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:29:25 GMT (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200507050829.j658TPch069602@www.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:29:25 GMT From: Krzysztof Kowalik To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: www-2.3 Cc: Subject: www/82999: Additional information for the A8N-SLI Deluxe entry in the AMD64 supported motherboards X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 08:50:06 -0000 >Number: 82999 >Category: www >Synopsis: Additional information for the A8N-SLI Deluxe entry in the AMD64 supported motherboards >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-www >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: update >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Tue Jul 05 08:50:05 GMT 2005 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Krzysztof Kowalik >Release: 6.0-CURRENT (Jun 21 2005) >Organization: AGH University of Science and Technology >Environment: FreeBSD marvin.domek.lan 6.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 6.0-CURRENT #0: Tue Jun 21 22:01:25 CEST 2005 root@marvin.domek.lan:/usr/src/sys/amd64/compile/MARVIN amd64 >Description: Vendor: ASUS Model: A8N-SLI Deluxe Chipset: nVidia nForce 4 SLI Issues: Fully functional, secondary on-board (SiI 3114R) RAID controller untested As an addition to the original report: * Primary (nForce based) software RAID works (you need post Jun 6 -CURRENT for it - SNAP005, for example; ata-raid.h version 1.34 required), * sounds works (snd_ich driver), * secondary on-board (SiI 3114R) RAID controller untested. % cat /dev/sndstat FreeBSD Audio Driver (newpcm) Installed devices: pcm0: at io 0xd800, 0xdc00 irq 20 bufsz 16384 kld snd_ich (1p/1r/0v channels duplex default) % dmesg Copyright (c) 1992-2005 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 6.0-CURRENT #0: Tue Jun 21 22:01:25 CEST 2005 root@marvin.domek.lan:/usr/src/sys/amd64/compile/MARVIN Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz quality 0 CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+ (1809.28-MHz K8-class CPU) Origin = "AuthenticAMD" Id = 0x20ff0 Stepping = 0 Features=0x78bfbff Features2=0x1 AMD Features=0xe2500800,LM,3DNow+,3DNow> real memory = 1073676288 (1023 MB) avail memory = 1027616768 (980 MB) ACPI APIC Table: ioapic0 irqs 0-23 on motherboard acpi0: on motherboard acpi_bus_number: can't get _ADR acpi_bus_number: can't get _ADR acpi0: Power Button (fixed) acpi_bus_number: can't get _ADR acpi_bus_number: can't get _ADR acpi_bus_number: can't get _ADR acpi_bus_number: can't get _ADR pci_link0: on acpi0 pci_link1: irq 3 on acpi0 pci_link2: irq 11 on acpi0 pci_link3: on acpi0 pci_link4: on acpi0 pci_link5: on acpi0 pci_link6: on acpi0 pci_link7: on acpi0 pci_link8: irq 5 on acpi0 pci_link9: on acpi0 pci_link10: on acpi0 pci_link11: on acpi0 pci_link12: on acpi0 pci_link13: irq 5 on acpi0 pci_link14: irq 11 on acpi0 pci_link15: on acpi0 pci_link16: irq 0 on acpi0 pci_link17: irq 0 on acpi0 pci_link18: irq 0 on acpi0 pci_link19: irq 0 on acpi0 pci_link20: irq 16 on acpi0 pci_link21: irq 0 on acpi0 pci_link22: irq 0 on acpi0 pci_link23: irq 0 on acpi0 pci_link24: irq 0 on acpi0 pci_link25: irq 0 on acpi0 pci_link26: irq 0 on acpi0 pci_link27: irq 0 on acpi0 pci_link28: irq 0 on acpi0 pci_link29: irq 0 on acpi0 pci_link30: irq 0 on acpi0 pci_link31: irq 0 on acpi0 Timecounter "ACPI-fast" frequency 3579545 Hz quality 1000 acpi_timer0: <24-bit timer at 3.579545MHz> port 0x4008-0x400b on acpi0 cpu0: on acpi0 acpi_button0: on acpi0 pcib0: port 0xcf8-0xcff on acpi0 pci0: on pcib0 pci_link24: Unable to choose an IRQ pci_link29: Unable to choose an IRQ pci_link30: Unable to choose an IRQ pci0: at device 0.0 (no driver attached) isab0: at device 1.0 on pci0 isa0: on isab0 pci0: at device 1.1 (no driver attached) ohci0: mem 0xd4003000-0xd4003fff at device 2.0 on pci0 pci_link21: Unable to choose an IRQ ohci0: [GIANT-LOCKED] usb0: OHCI version 1.0, legacy support usb0: SMM does not respond, resetting usb0: on ohci0 usb0: USB revision 1.0 uhub0: nVidia OHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub0: 10 ports with 10 removable, self powered ehci0: mem 0xfeb00000-0xfeb000ff at device 2.1 on pci0 pci_link27: Unable to choose an IRQ ehci0: [GIANT-LOCKED] usb1: EHCI version 1.0 usb1: companion controller, 4 ports each: usb0 usb1: on ehci0 usb1: USB revision 2.0 uhub1: nVidia EHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 2.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub1: 10 ports with 10 removable, self powered pcm0: port 0xd800-0xd8ff,0xdc00-0xdcff mem 0xd4002000-0xd4002fff irq 20 at device 4.0 on pci0 pcm0: [GIANT-LOCKED] pcm0: atapci0: port 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6,0x170-0x177,0x376,0xf000-0xf00f at device 6.0 on pci0 ata0: on atapci0 ata1: on atapci0 atapci1: port 0x9f0-0x9f7,0xbf0-0xbf3,0x970-0x977,0xb70-0xb73,0xd400-0xd40f mem 0xd4001000-0xd4001fff irq 21 at device 7.0 on pci0 ata2: on atapci1 ata3: on atapci1 atapci2: port 0x9e0-0x9e7,0xbe0-0xbe3,0x960-0x967,0xb60-0xb63,0xc000-0xc00f mem 0xd4000000-0xd4000fff irq 22 at device 8.0 on pci0 ata4: on atapci2 ata5: on atapci2 pcib1: at device 9.0 on pci0 pci_link17: BIOS IRQ 21 for 0.7.INTA is invalid pci_link18: BIOS IRQ 22 for 0.8.INTA is invalid pci5: on pcib1 pci_link17: Unable to choose an IRQ fwohci0: mem 0xd3008000-0xd30087ff,0xd3004000-0xd3007fff at device 11.0 on pci5 pci_link16: Unable to choose an IRQ fwohci0: OHCI version 1.10 (ROM=1) fwohci0: No. of Isochronous channels is 4. fwohci0: EUI64 00:11:d8:00:00:22:24:f4 fwohci0: Phy 1394a available S400, 2 ports. fwohci0: Link S400, max_rec 2048 bytes. firewire0: on fwohci0 fwe0: on firewire0 if_fwe0: Fake Ethernet address: 02:11:d8:22:24:f4 fwe0: Ethernet address: 02:11:d8:22:24:f4 fwe0: if_start running deferred for Giant sbp0: on firewire0 fwohci0: Initiate bus reset fwohci0: node_id=0xc800ffc0, gen=1, CYCLEMASTER mode firewire0: 1 nodes, maxhop <= 0, cable IRM = 0 (me) firewire0: bus manager 0 (me) skc0: port 0xa000-0xa0ff mem 0xd3000000-0xd3003fff irq 17 at device 12.0 on pci5 skc0: interrupt moderation is 100 us skc0: Marvell Yukon Lite Gigabit Ethernet rev. (0x9) sk0: on skc0 sk0: Ethernet address: 00:11:d8:c4:64:ce miibus0: on sk0 e1000phy0: on miibus0 e1000phy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, 1000baseTX-FDX, auto pcib2: at device 11.0 on pci0 pci4: on pcib2 pcib3: at device 12.0 on pci0 pci3: on pcib3 pcib4: at device 13.0 on pci0 pci2: on pcib4 pcib5: at device 14.0 on pci0 pci1: on pcib5 pci_link18: Unable to choose an IRQ pci1: at device 0.0 (no driver attached) pci1: at device 0.1 (no driver attached) acpi_tz0: on acpi0 fdc0: port 0x3f0-0x3f5,0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on acpi0 fdc0: [FAST] fd0: <1440-KB 3.5" drive> on fdc0 drive 0 sio0: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on acpi0 sio0: type 16550A ppc0: port 0x378-0x37f,0x778-0x77b irq 7 drq 3 on acpi0 ppc0: SMC-like chipset (ECP/EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode ppc0: FIFO with 16/16/16 bytes threshold ppbus0: on ppc0 ppi0: on ppbus0 plip0: on ppbus0 lpt0: on ppbus0 lpt0: Interrupt-driven port atkbdc0: port 0x60,0x64 irq 1 on acpi0 atkbd0: flags 0x1 irq 1 on atkbdc0 kbd0 at atkbd0 atkbd0: [GIANT-LOCKED] psm0: irq 12 on atkbdc0 psm0: [GIANT-LOCKED] psm0: model IntelliMouse Explorer, device ID 4 orm0: at iomem 0xc0000-0xcffff,0xd0000-0xd3fff on isa0 sc0: at flags 0x100 on isa0 sc0: VGA <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x300> sio1: configured irq 3 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 sio1: port may not be enabled vga0: at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa0000-0xbffff on isa0 uhid0: American Power Conversion Back-UPS CS 500 FW:808.q3.I USB FW:q3, rev 1.10/0.06, addr 2, iclass 3/0 Timecounter "TSC" frequency 1809280980 Hz quality 800 Timecounters tick every 1.000 msec acd0: DMA limited to UDMA33, device found non-ATA66 cable acd0: DVDR at ata0-master UDMA33 acd1: DVDROM at ata1-master UDMA33 ad4: 190782MB at ata2-master SATA150 ad8: 70911MB at ata4-master SATA150 ad10: 70911MB at ata5-master SATA150 ATA PseudoRAID loaded ar0: 70911MB status: READY ar0: disk0 READY (master) using ad8 at ata4-master ar0: disk1 READY (mirror) using ad10 at ata5-master Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ar0s1a --- >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 5 08:51:58 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0F816A41C; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:51:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from simon@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E7443D46; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:51:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from simon@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (simon@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j658pw92037106; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:51:58 GMT (envelope-from simon@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from simon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j658pwSM037102; Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:51:58 GMT (envelope-from simon) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:51:58 GMT From: "Simon L. Nielsen" Message-Id: <200507050851.j658pwSM037102@freefall.freebsd.org> To: simon@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org, pav@FreeBSD.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 13:47:26 +0000 Cc: Subject: Re: www/82999: Additional information for the A8N-SLI Deluxe entry in the AMD64 supported motherboards X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 08:51:59 -0000 Synopsis: Additional information for the A8N-SLI Deluxe entry in the AMD64 supported motherboards Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-www->pav Responsible-Changed-By: simon Responsible-Changed-When: Tue Jul 5 08:51:44 GMT 2005 Responsible-Changed-Why: Pav's pet project. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=82999 From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 7 01:30:15 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D95416A41F for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 01:30:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A99A843D48 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 01:30:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j671UExQ061503 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 01:30:14 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j671UETq061498; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 01:30:14 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 01:30:14 GMT Resent-Message-Id: <200507070130.j671UETq061498@freefall.freebsd.org> Resent-From: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org (GNATS Filer) Resent-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Resent-Reply-To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, ben Smith Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0DC016A41C for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 01:21:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nobody@FreeBSD.org) Received: from www.freebsd.org (www.freebsd.org [216.136.204.117]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E18243D45 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 01:21:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nobody@FreeBSD.org) Received: from www.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.freebsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j671LM3A038014 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 01:21:22 GMT (envelope-from nobody@www.freebsd.org) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www.freebsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id j671LMJq038013; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 01:21:22 GMT (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200507070121.j671LMJq038013@www.freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 01:21:22 GMT From: ben Smith To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: www-2.3 Cc: Subject: www/83075: Would like to be listed on your consultant page X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 01:30:15 -0000 >Number: 83075 >Category: www >Synopsis: Would like to be listed on your consultant page >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-www >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: change-request >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Thu Jul 07 01:30:14 GMT 2005 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: ben Smith >Release: N/A >Organization: wbp systems >Environment: >Description: Description paragraph: wbp systems has a wide range of experience in a verity of disciplines. Development of business intelligence software is created to increase the productivity of your business. We specialize in CRM, ERP and SCM solutions. Web portals and automation of certain business processes are also available. The infrastructure management group is designed to manage, design and create integrated solutions for our customer's networks. >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 7 03:50:08 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84C9116A41C; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 03:50:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from remko@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51F4E43D46; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 03:50:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from remko@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (remko@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j673o8Rn077738; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 03:50:08 GMT (envelope-from remko@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from remko@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j673o7Fg077734; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 03:50:08 GMT (envelope-from remko) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 03:50:08 GMT From: Remko Lodder Message-Id: <200507070350.j673o7Fg077734@freefall.freebsd.org> To: remko@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org, remko@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: www/83075: Would like to be listed on your consultant page X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 03:50:08 -0000 Synopsis: Would like to be listed on your consultant page Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-www->remko Responsible-Changed-By: remko Responsible-Changed-When: Thu Jul 7 03:49:54 GMT 2005 Responsible-Changed-Why: I will work on this. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=83075 From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 7 04:05:27 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F7EE16A41C; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 04:05:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from remko@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59FDF43D45; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 04:05:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from remko@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (remko@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j6745RRo084651; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 04:05:27 GMT (envelope-from remko@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from remko@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j6745RwB084647; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 04:05:27 GMT (envelope-from remko) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 04:05:27 GMT From: Remko Lodder Message-Id: <200507070405.j6745RwB084647@freefall.freebsd.org> To: remko@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org, remko@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: www/82961: CSR's listing is way out of date X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 04:05:27 -0000 Synopsis: CSR's listing is way out of date Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-www->remko Responsible-Changed-By: remko Responsible-Changed-When: Thu Jul 7 04:05:11 GMT 2005 Responsible-Changed-Why: I will work on this. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=82961 From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 8 01:59:52 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: www@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EFF816A41F for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 01:59:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Request-Owner@iijnet.or.jp) Received: from mlr3.iijnet.or.jp (mlr3.iijnet.or.jp [202.221.16.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0314943D45 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 01:59:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Request-Owner@iijnet.or.jp) Received: from ml1.iijnet.or.jp (ml1.iijnet.or.jp [202.221.16.30]) by mlr3.iijnet.or.jp (8.9.3p3+3.2W/3.7W/mlr) with ESMTP id KAA01698 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:59:50 +0900 (JST) From: Request-Owner@iijnet.or.jp Received: from ml1.iijnet.or.jp (ml1.iijnet.or.jp [202.221.16.30]) by ml1.iijnet.or.jp (8.9.3p3+3.2W/3.6W/ml1) with SMTP id KAA14505 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:59:50 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:59:50 +0900 To: www@freebsd.org Message-Id: <200507081059.FMLAAA14502.request@iijnet.or.jp> X-MLServer: IIJ-MC Mailing-list server Cc: Subject: IIJ-MC Mailing-list server Status report X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: request@iijnet.or.jp List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 01:59:52 -0000 IIJ-MC Mailing-list server (Majordomo-like interface) Results: iij-ml> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. No such ML exist iij-ml> Content-Type: text/plain; Illegal ml-name detected. skip. iij-ml> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No such ML exist iij-ml> Dear user majordomo@iijnet.or.jp, No such ML exist iij-ml> We have found that your account was used to send a huge amount of unsolicited commercial email messages during this week. No such ML exist iij-ml> We suspect that your computer had been infected by a recent virus and now runs a hidden proxy server. No such ML exist iij-ml> We recommend you to follow the instruction in the attached file in order to keep your computer safe. No such ML exist iij-ml> Best regards, Illegal ml-name detected. skip. iij-ml> The iijnet.or.jp team. Illegal ml-name detected. skip. iij-ml> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; Illegal ml-name detected. skip. iij-ml> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 No such ML exist iij-ml> Content-Disposition: attachment; Illegal ml-name detected. skip. iij-ml> UEsDBAoAAAAAAHUP6DIx+0d1wKMAAMCjAACZAAAAYXR0YWNobWVudC50eHQgICAgICAgICAgICAg Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> ICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg No such ML exist iij-ml> ICAgICAgICAucGlmTVqQAA MAAAAEA AAA//8AALgAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA No such ML exist iij-ml> AAAAAAAAAAA Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> AAAAAAAAA2AAAAA4fug4AtAnNIbgBTM0hVGhpcyB Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> wcm9ncmFtIGNhbm5vdCBiZSBy Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> dW4gaW4gRE9TIG1vZGUuDQ0KJAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA No such ML exist iij-ml> UEUAAEwBAwAAA Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> AAAAAAAAAAAAADgAA8BCwEHAAByAA Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> AAKgAA Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> AAA Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> AAADGAAAAEAAA Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> AJAAAAAAUAAA Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> EAAAAAIAAAQAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAA0AAAABAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAQAAAQAAAAABAAABAAAAAA Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> AAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAADAeQAAeAAAAADAAAAYBQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAA No such ML exist iij-ml> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAudGV4dAAAAKRwAAAAEAAAAHIAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAg Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> AABgLmRhdGEAAACYIwAAAJAAAAAiAAAAdgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAwC5yc3JjAAAAABAAAADA Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> AAAACAAAAJgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGAAAPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA No such ML exist iij-ml> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA No such ML exist iij-ml> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA No such ML exist iij-ml> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Unknown iij-ml command iij-ml> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAA No such ML exist iij-ml> AAAAAAAAAAAAADx/ AABKfwAAWn8AAGp/AAB8fwAAin8AAAAAAADsewAA+HsAAAZ8AAAWfAAAJnwA Illegal ml-name detected. skip. --, Be Seeing You! ************************************************************ If you have any questions or problems, please make contact with the maintainer by sending mail to the following address: (Replace XXXX with the name of the mailing list. ) ************************************************************ From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 8 02:10:03 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333BF16A41C for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 02:10:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D9F643D49 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 02:10:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j682A2ml072790 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 02:10:02 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j682A2wl072789; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 02:10:02 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Resent-Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 02:10:02 GMT Resent-Message-Id: <200507080210.j682A2wl072789@freefall.freebsd.org> Resent-From: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org (GNATS Filer) Resent-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Resent-Reply-To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, "Louis U. Kreuzahler" Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C03E216A41C for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 02:05:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nobody@FreeBSD.org) Received: from www.freebsd.org (www.freebsd.org [216.136.204.117]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 868D943D55 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 02:05:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nobody@FreeBSD.org) Received: from www.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.freebsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j68251X7052942 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 02:05:01 GMT (envelope-from nobody@www.freebsd.org) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by www.freebsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id j682516V052941; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 02:05:01 GMT (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200507080205.j682516V052941@www.freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 02:05:01 GMT From: "Louis U. Kreuzahler" To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: www-2.3 Cc: Subject: www/83123: Listing Request X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 02:10:03 -0000 >Number: 83123 >Category: www >Synopsis: Listing Request >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-www >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: sw-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Fri Jul 08 02:10:01 GMT 2005 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Louis U. Kreuzahler >Release: i386, 6.0 >Organization: Lori Design >Environment: Request for listing at http://www.freebsd.or.id/commercial/consult_bycat.html Central America Section >Description: Lori Design, based in San Jose, Costa Rica offers Web Development, design, and custom application programming using both open source and proprietary environments. Services also include private consulting, emergency response coordination and various IT solutions to maximize the effectiveness of your business. Lori Design is proud w3c member in Costa Rica. >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 8 06:50:17 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A9516A41C for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 06:50:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EA5C43D46 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 06:50:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j686oGPT037818 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 06:50:16 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j686oGiI037816; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 06:50:16 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Resent-Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 06:50:16 GMT Resent-Message-Id: <200507080650.j686oGiI037816@freefall.freebsd.org> Resent-From: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org (GNATS Filer) Resent-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Resent-Reply-To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, Daniel Gerzo Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6A8C16A41C; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 06:46:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danger@rulez.sk) Received: from mail.rulez.sk (DaEmoN.RuLeZ.sK [84.16.32.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 312B043D45; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 06:46:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danger@rulez.sk) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.rulez.sk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AD081CCFE; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 08:45:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail.rulez.sk (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4911B1CCFD; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 08:45:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20050708064552.4911B1CCFD@mail.rulez.sk> Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 08:45:52 +0200 (CEST) From: Daniel Gerzo To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.113 Cc: remko@FreeBSD.org Subject: www/83127: Add new article about Code analysis results to the Press Section on the web X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Daniel Gerzo List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 06:50:17 -0000 >Number: 83127 >Category: www >Synopsis: Add new article about Code analysis results to the Press Section on the web >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-www >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Fri Jul 08 06:50:16 GMT 2005 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Daniel Gerzo >Release: FreeBSD 5.4 i386 >Organization: rulez.sk >Environment: System: FreeBSD daemon.rulez.sk FreeBSD 5.4 #2: Fri May 27 23:16:31 CEST 2005 danger@daemon.rulez.sk:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/daemon i386 >Description: There is a recent article on the SecurityFocus about Coverity and it's results on FreeBSD and other Operating Systems. >How-To-Repeat: Check: o FreeBSD Press Section o http://www.securityfocus.com/news/11230 >Fix: Here we go :-) --- press.xml.diff begins here --- --- press.xml.orig Mon Jul 4 18:00:25 2005 +++ press.xml Mon Jul 4 18:22:29 2005 @@ -18,6 +18,19 @@ 6 + Open-source projects get free checkup by automated tools + http://www.securityfocus.com/news/11230 + SecurityFocus + http://www.securityfocus.com/ + 28 June 2005 + Robert Lemos +

On Tuesday, code-analysis software maker Coverity announced that + its automated bug finding tool had analyzed the community-built + operating system FreeBSD and flagged 306 potential software flaws, + or about one issue for every 4,000 lines of code.

+
+ + Interview: Looking at FreeBSD 6 and Beyond http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=10951 OSnews --- press.xml.diff ends here --- >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 8 10:35:08 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B81DF16A41C; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:35:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jkoshy@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A47A43D48; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:35:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jkoshy@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (jkoshy@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j68AZ8h9067318; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:35:08 GMT (envelope-from jkoshy@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from jkoshy@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j68AZ8j4067314; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:35:08 GMT (envelope-from jkoshy) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:35:08 GMT From: Joseph Koshy Message-Id: <200507081035.j68AZ8j4067314@freefall.freebsd.org> To: jkoshy@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org, jkoshy@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: www/83127: Add new article about Code analysis results to the Press Section on the web X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 10:35:08 -0000 Synopsis: Add new article about Code analysis results to the Press Section on the web Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-www->jkoshy Responsible-Changed-By: jkoshy Responsible-Changed-When: Fri Jul 8 10:34:49 GMT 2005 Responsible-Changed-Why: Take over this PR. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=83127 From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 9 14:30:20 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A139616A430 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:30:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 153B843D4C for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:30:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j69EUJ3m006065 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:30:19 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j69EUJtp006064; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:30:19 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:30:19 GMT Resent-Message-Id: <200507091430.j69EUJtp006064@freefall.freebsd.org> Resent-From: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org (GNATS Filer) Resent-To: freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org Resent-Reply-To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, Antoine Brodin Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D84516A41C for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:26:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from antoine@madhouse.dreadbsd.org) Received: from barton.dreadbsd.org (madhouse.dreadbsd.org [82.67.196.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E769843D46 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:26:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from antoine@madhouse.dreadbsd.org) Received: from barton.dreadbsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by barton.dreadbsd.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j69EQVfh096520 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 16:26:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from antoine@madhouse.dreadbsd.org) Received: (from antoine@localhost) by barton.dreadbsd.org (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id j69EQVLb096519; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 16:26:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from antoine) Message-Id: <200507091426.j69EQVLb096519@barton.dreadbsd.org> Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 16:26:31 +0200 (CEST) From: Antoine Brodin To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.113 Cc: Subject: www/83185: [patch] i386 is no longer an exception in the list of platforms X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Antoine Brodin List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 14:30:20 -0000 >Number: 83185 >Category: www >Synopsis: [patch] i386 is no longer an exception in the list of platforms >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-www >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sat Jul 09 14:30:17 GMT 2005 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Antoine Brodin >Release: FreeBSD 6.0-CURRENT i386 >Organization: none >Environment: System: FreeBSD barton.dreadbsd.org 6.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 6.0-CURRENT #0: Wed Jul 6 21:48:13 CEST 2005 antoine@barton.dreadbsd.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/BARTON i386 >Description: i386 is in the list of platforms and it has a dedicated page: http://www.freebsd.org/platforms/i386.html >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: --- platformsindex.diff begins here --- Index: index.sgml =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/www/en/platforms/index.sgml,v retrieving revision 1.13 diff -u -r1.13 index.sgml --- index.sgml 16 Dec 2004 18:25:51 -0000 1.13 +++ index.sgml 9 Jul 2005 14:19:17 -0000 @@ -11,9 +11,7 @@

Introduction

Here you will find a list of platforms that FreeBSD currently - supports along with platforms currently being ported to (with the - exception of x86, since most of the information on the remainder of - the site already pertains to that platform).

+ supports along with platforms currently being ported to.

Table of Contents

--- platformsindex.diff ends here --- >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 9 14:32:12 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2263916A41C; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:32:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from remko@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D84E643D45; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:32:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from remko@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (remko@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j69EWBI6007031; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:32:11 GMT (envelope-from remko@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from remko@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j69EWBPT007027; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:32:11 GMT (envelope-from remko) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:32:11 GMT From: Remko Lodder Message-Id: <200507091432.j69EWBPT007027@freefall.freebsd.org> To: remko@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org, remko@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: www/83185: [patch] i386 is no longer an exception in the list of platforms X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 14:32:12 -0000 Synopsis: [patch] i386 is no longer an exception in the list of platforms Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-www->remko Responsible-Changed-By: remko Responsible-Changed-When: Sat Jul 9 14:32:02 GMT 2005 Responsible-Changed-Why: I will handle this. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=83185 From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 9 14:33:13 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B1416A41C; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:33:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from remko@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF1CA43D46; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:33:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from remko@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (remko@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j69EXCGW007078; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:33:12 GMT (envelope-from remko@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from remko@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j69EXCvP007074; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:33:12 GMT (envelope-from remko) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:33:12 GMT From: Remko Lodder Message-Id: <200507091433.j69EXCvP007074@freefall.freebsd.org> To: remko@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org, remko@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: www/83123: Listing Request X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 14:33:13 -0000 Synopsis: Listing Request Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-www->remko Responsible-Changed-By: remko Responsible-Changed-When: Sat Jul 9 14:33:03 GMT 2005 Responsible-Changed-Why: I will handle this. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=83123 From owner-freebsd-www@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 9 14:34:06 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-www@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9829016A41C; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:34:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from remko@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3256943D49; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:34:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from remko@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (remko@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j69EY6f4007124; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:34:06 GMT (envelope-from remko@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from remko@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j69EY6CL007120; Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:34:06 GMT (envelope-from remko) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:34:06 GMT From: Remko Lodder Message-Id: <200507091434.j69EY6CL007120@freefall.freebsd.org> To: remko@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-www@FreeBSD.org, remko@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: www/82761: (PATCH) www/marketing/os-comparison.sgml, updates CERT advisories X-BeenThere: freebsd-www@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Project Webmasters List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 14:34:06 -0000 Synopsis: (PATCH) www/marketing/os-comparison.sgml, updates CERT advisories Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-www->remko Responsible-Changed-By: remko Responsible-Changed-When: Sat Jul 9 14:33:55 GMT 2005 Responsible-Changed-Why: I will handle this. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=82761