From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 9 05:01:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0EE16A41F for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 05:01:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34DEC43D46 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 05:01:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.144]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FA8A62C855; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 01:01:13 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (av.hub.org [200.46.204.144]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 73298-04; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 01:01:13 -0400 (AST) Received: from ganymede.hub.org (blk-222-82-85.eastlink.ca [24.222.82.85]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED77E62C852; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 01:01:12 -0400 (AST) Received: by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8BEDB3AC14; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 01:01:11 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AB503962E; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 01:01:11 -0400 (AST) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 01:01:11 -0400 (AST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Nikolas Britton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060109005751.B1088@ganymede.hub.org> References: <63553.67.101.81.97.1136391140.squirrel@webmail.shadowdev.org> <43BD2D46.5040502@t-hosting.hu> <43BD48F2.2090609@vonostingroup.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1658067568-1136782871=:1088" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at hub.org Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6vesd=E1n_G=E1bor?= , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, speedydemon@shadowdev.org, Frank Laszlo Subject: Re: FreeBSD as a Desktop Article X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 05:01:17 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1658067568-1136782871=:1088 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Nikolas Britton wrote: > On 1/5/06, Frank Laszlo wrote: >> >> >> K=F6vesd=E1n G=E1bor wrote: >>> Nikolas Britton wrote: >>> >>>> On 1/4/06, James Cornell wrote: >>>> >>>> never mind, I just made one so go sign it!!! >>>> http://www.petitiononline.com/flash4me/petition.html >>>> >>>> >>> I've signed it and posted it to a Hungarian open-source community, but >>> I think it would be nice if somebody from the doc team can add it to >>> the news on the website, so I cc'd freebsd-doc@, I hope this helps >>> geting Adobe to release a working Flash for FreeBSD. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Gabor Kovesdan >> >> Not to rain on the parade, but since when has one of those online >> petitions done any good? >> > > It may be trivial but at least I did something to rectify it. Talking > about are problems will get us nowhere unless we also do. Do you have > a better plan of action? The problem is, anyone can sign a petition, even those that don't, nor=20 will ever, use the software, which is what makes them meaningless :( You really need to get someone on the inside that is using FreeBSD and=20 push from that direction ... unless its a product you can pay for, and=20 then you make the dollars speak for you ... What about the FreeBSD Foundation ... maybe something that they can=20 organize? ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 --0-1658067568-1136782871=:1088-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 9 11:32:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4ECC16A439 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 11:32:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.207]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01A7943D45 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 11:32:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s9so2519585wxc for ; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 03:32:48 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=nW9AXU83UQLGO0bS3Qj4p3VPBtiY/F7fuxntEfZGD4pOBTPqCo5CItDe2WWlq+bms6zikbY0Py2x+x6orgtApopEks1g5srICy9NYnbl1fVJNLvvKGgN1iyilLFcINb+bpr6+Ecj3lRMtmlPP2Zswt4Y6IEN7mbvTah3riKUOu8= Received: by 10.70.122.16 with SMTP id u16mr5712135wxc; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 03:32:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.66.9 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 03:32:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 05:32:48 -0600 From: Nikolas Britton To: "Marc G. Fournier" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6vesd=E1n_G=E1bor?= , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, speedydemon@shadowdev.org, Frank Laszlo Subject: Flash Petition (Was Re: FreeBSD as a Desktop Article) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 11:32:49 -0000 On 1/8/06, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Nikolas Britton wrote: > > > On 1/5/06, Frank Laszlo wrote: > >> > >> > >> K=F6vesd=E1n G=E1bor wrote: > >>> Nikolas Britton wrote: > >>> > >>>> On 1/4/06, James Cornell wrote: > >>>> > >>>> never mind, I just made one so go sign it!!! > >>>> http://www.petitiononline.com/flash4me/petition.html > >>>> > >>>> > >>> I've signed it and posted it to a Hungarian open-source community, bu= t > >>> I think it would be nice if somebody from the doc team can add it to > >>> the news on the website, so I cc'd freebsd-doc@, I hope this helps > >>> geting Adobe to release a working Flash for FreeBSD. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Gabor Kovesdan > >> > >> Not to rain on the parade, but since when has one of those online > >> petitions done any good? > >> > > > > It may be trivial but at least I did something to rectify it. Talking > > about are problems will get us nowhere unless we also do. Do you have > > a better plan of action? > > The problem is, anyone can sign a petition, even those that don't, nor > will ever, use the software, which is what makes them meaningless :( > > You really need to get someone on the inside that is using FreeBSD and > push from that direction ... unless its a product you can pay for, and > then you make the dollars speak for you ... I make all IT, purchasing, decisions at my company. I suspect most other senior IT folk also make or have strong influence in, purchasing, decisions at their company's. What are the demographics for people who use FreeBSD? I suspect a higher then normal percentage of senior IT folk make up the ranks. Here's an excellent example of the point I'm trying to make: Last year my company wanted to build a flash website. I put my foot down and said no, not everyone can use or see flash websites. Macromedia lost a $999 dollar sale. > > What about the FreeBSD Foundation ... maybe something that they can > organize? I'm all for that and other organisations getting involved, maybe they can actually do something too. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 9 13:11:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16E9E16A41F for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:11:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from mh2.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73D6B43D46 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:11:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from [10.177.171.220] (neutrino.centtech.com [10.177.171.220]) by mh2.centtech.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k09DB4M3032111; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 07:11:04 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <43C260D4.1040202@centtech.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 07:10:44 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20060104) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nikolas Britton References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.87.1/1235/Sun Jan 8 12:13:01 2006 on mh2.centtech.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Flash Petition (Was Re: FreeBSD as a Desktop Article) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 13:11:06 -0000 Nikolas Britton wrote: >On 1/8/06, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > >>On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Nikolas Britton wrote: >> >> >> >>>On 1/5/06, Frank Laszlo wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Kövesdán Gábor wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Nikolas Britton wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>On 1/4/06, James Cornell wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>never mind, I just made one so go sign it!!! >>>>>>http://www.petitiononline.com/flash4me/petition.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>I've signed it and posted it to a Hungarian open-source community, but >>>>>I think it would be nice if somebody from the doc team can add it to >>>>>the news on the website, so I cc'd freebsd-doc@, I hope this helps >>>>>geting Adobe to release a working Flash for FreeBSD. >>>>> >>>>>Regards, >>>>> >>>>>Gabor Kovesdan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Not to rain on the parade, but since when has one of those online >>>>petitions done any good? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>It may be trivial but at least I did something to rectify it. Talking >>>about are problems will get us nowhere unless we also do. Do you have >>>a better plan of action? >>> >>> >>The problem is, anyone can sign a petition, even those that don't, nor >>will ever, use the software, which is what makes them meaningless :( >> >>You really need to get someone on the inside that is using FreeBSD and >>push from that direction ... unless its a product you can pay for, and >>then you make the dollars speak for you ... >> >> > >I make all IT, purchasing, decisions at my company. I suspect most >other senior IT folk also make or have strong influence in, >purchasing, decisions at their company's. What are the demographics >for people who use FreeBSD? I suspect a higher then normal percentage >of senior IT folk make up the ranks. Here's an excellent example of >the point I'm trying to make: Last year my company wanted to build a >flash website. I put my foot down and said no, not everyone can use or >see flash websites. Macromedia lost a $999 dollar sale. > > Same here - I also host several domains on a colocated server, and I tell everyone who is getting a site done to refuse flash for their website creation. I point them in other directions, and cite that flash is not visible to everyone. I'm sure I've stopped the sale of at least 10 macromedia sales, not to mention the sites that use flash to display product information losing business from those of us that are using a FreeBSD desktop and want to order something online. I get frustrated, and find another site selling the product, or skip the purchase altogether. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Sr. Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Anything that works is better than anything that doesn't. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 9 17:09:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7423016A41F for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:09:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from kane.otenet.gr (kane.otenet.gr [195.170.0.95]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0141243D5A for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:09:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from flame.pc (aris.bedc.ondsl.gr [62.103.39.226]) by kane.otenet.gr (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-8) with SMTP id k09H9aX7022192; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:09:36 +0200 Received: by flame.pc (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 89F0B11822; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:08:09 +0200 (EET) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:08:07 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Eric Anderson Message-ID: <20060109170807.GA28017@flame.pc> References: <43C260D4.1040202@centtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <43C260D4.1040202@centtech.com> Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Flash Petition (Was Re: FreeBSD as a Desktop Article) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:09:45 -0000 On 2006-01-09 07:10, Eric Anderson wrote: > Nikolas Britton wrote: > > I make all IT, purchasing, decisions at my company. I suspect > > most other senior IT folk also make or have strong influence > > in, purchasing, decisions at their company's. What are the > > demographics for people who use FreeBSD? I suspect a higher > > then normal percentage of senior IT folk make up the > > ranks. Here's an excellent example of the point I'm trying to > > make: Last year my company wanted to build a flash website. I > > put my foot down and said no, not everyone can use or see > > flash websites. Macromedia lost a $999 dollar sale. > > Same here - I also host several domains on a colocated server, > and I tell everyone who is getting a site done to refuse flash > for their website creation. I point them in other directions, > and cite that flash is not visible to everyone. I'm sure I've > stopped the sale of at least 10 macromedia sales, not to > mention the sites that use flash to display product information > losing business from those of us that are using a FreeBSD > desktop and want to order something online. I get frustrated, > and find another site selling the product, or skip the purchase > altogether. I have a similar aversion to all sites that force Flash on their users; especially the ones that fail miserably to implement an 'alternative' entry point. Most of the time, I just hit "Home" or "Back" and surf elsewhere. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 9 14:12:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7554116A41F for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:12:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from algould@datawok.com) Received: from smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF61A43D46 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:12:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from algould@datawok.com) Received: from [206.255.31.21] (helo=grokwell.org) by smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1Evxkk-0008Fu-TE; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 09:12:07 -0500 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 08:12:09 -0600 From: "Andrew L. Gould" To: Nikolas Britton Message-ID: <20060109081209.114ce611@grokwell.org> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 1.9.13 (GTK+ 2.6.9; i386-portbld-freebsd6.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ELNK-Trace: ee791d459e3d6817d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc4c6d7c556719886987eae93b4d07f0af350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 206.255.31.21 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:50:38 +0000 Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, speedydemon@shadowdev.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?bor?= , Frank Laszlo , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6vesd=E1n_G=E1?= Subject: Re: Flash Petition (Was Re: FreeBSD as a Desktop Article) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:12:11 -0000 On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 05:32:48 -0600 Nikolas Britton wrote: > On 1/8/06, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Nikolas Britton wrote: > > > > > On 1/5/06, Frank Laszlo wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> K=F6vesd=E1n G=E1bor wrote: > > >>> Nikolas Britton wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> On 1/4/06, James Cornell wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> never mind, I just made one so go sign it!!! > > >>>> http://www.petitiononline.com/flash4me/petition.html > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> I've signed it and posted it to a Hungarian open-source > > >>> community, but I think it would be nice if somebody from the > > >>> doc team can add it to the news on the website, so I cc'd > > >>> freebsd-doc@, I hope this helps geting Adobe to release a > > >>> working Flash for FreeBSD. > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> > > >>> Gabor Kovesdan > > >> > > >> Not to rain on the parade, but since when has one of those online > > >> petitions done any good? > > >> > > > > > > It may be trivial but at least I did something to rectify it. > > > Talking about are problems will get us nowhere unless we also do. > > > Do you have a better plan of action? > > > > The problem is, anyone can sign a petition, even those that don't, > > nor will ever, use the software, which is what makes them > > meaningless :( > > > > You really need to get someone on the inside that is using FreeBSD > > and push from that direction ... unless its a product you can pay > > for, and then you make the dollars speak for you ... >=20 > I make all IT, purchasing, decisions at my company. I suspect most > other senior IT folk also make or have strong influence in, > purchasing, decisions at their company's. What are the demographics > for people who use FreeBSD? I suspect a higher then normal percentage > of senior IT folk make up the ranks. Here's an excellent example of > the point I'm trying to make: Last year my company wanted to build a > flash website. I put my foot down and said no, not everyone can use or > see flash websites. Macromedia lost a $999 dollar sale. >=20 > > > > What about the FreeBSD Foundation ... maybe something that they can > > organize? >=20 > I'm all for that and other organisations getting involved, maybe they > can actually do something too. How about a campaign where every time a FreeBSD user comes across a Flash website, he/she sends the webmaster an email stating that we can't see their content because Flash is not available for FreeBSD? I wonder if we could generate a noticeable volume. Andrew From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 9 14:45:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D169616A420 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:45:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.203]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59E1143D45 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:45:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s9so2542751wxc for ; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 06:45:13 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=SF9UEzpJZh3CUPLy2r/bB9rUSvTWJhBP128h272Y5LLt7XAiJ1HK/+5yVeSTu5mMI0ML/Px8XsRBcBU4GegHDfKf9D84lkKSlcoEQOxASj2uxArhL+tHsvrs9XoPLySyDk8IRjtsF+2Wp13GpkCNL0cGrK19BYffsJSbrQpivmk= Received: by 10.70.124.4 with SMTP id w4mr6824680wxc; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 06:45:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.66.9 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 06:45:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 08:45:13 -0600 From: Nikolas Britton To: "Andrew L. Gould" In-Reply-To: <20060109081209.114ce611@grokwell.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060109081209.114ce611@grokwell.org> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:50:38 +0000 Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, speedydemon@shadowdev.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6vesd=E1n_G=E1bor?= , Frank Laszlo Subject: Re: Flash Petition (Was Re: FreeBSD as a Desktop Article) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:45:17 -0000 On 1/9/06, Andrew L. Gould wrote: > On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 05:32:48 -0600 > Nikolas Britton wrote: > > > On 1/8/06, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Nikolas Britton wrote: > > > > > > > On 1/5/06, Frank Laszlo wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> K=F6vesd=E1n G=E1bor wrote: > > > >>> Nikolas Britton wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> On 1/4/06, James Cornell wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> never mind, I just made one so go sign it!!! > > > >>>> http://www.petitiononline.com/flash4me/petition.html > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> I've signed it and posted it to a Hungarian open-source > > > >>> community, but I think it would be nice if somebody from the > > > >>> doc team can add it to the news on the website, so I cc'd > > > >>> freebsd-doc@, I hope this helps geting Adobe to release a > > > >>> working Flash for FreeBSD. > > > >>> > > > >>> Regards, > > > >>> > > > >>> Gabor Kovesdan > > > >> > > > >> Not to rain on the parade, but since when has one of those online > > > >> petitions done any good? > > > >> > > > > > > > > It may be trivial but at least I did something to rectify it. > > > > Talking about are problems will get us nowhere unless we also do. > > > > Do you have a better plan of action? > > > > > > The problem is, anyone can sign a petition, even those that don't, > > > nor will ever, use the software, which is what makes them > > > meaningless :( > > > > > > You really need to get someone on the inside that is using FreeBSD > > > and push from that direction ... unless its a product you can pay > > > for, and then you make the dollars speak for you ... > > > > I make all IT, purchasing, decisions at my company. I suspect most > > other senior IT folk also make or have strong influence in, > > purchasing, decisions at their company's. What are the demographics > > for people who use FreeBSD? I suspect a higher then normal percentage > > of senior IT folk make up the ranks. Here's an excellent example of > > the point I'm trying to make: Last year my company wanted to build a > > flash website. I put my foot down and said no, not everyone can use or > > see flash websites. Macromedia lost a $999 dollar sale. > > > > > > > > What about the FreeBSD Foundation ... maybe something that they can > > > organize? > > > > I'm all for that and other organisations getting involved, maybe they > > can actually do something too. > > How about a campaign where every time a FreeBSD user comes across a > Flash website, he/she sends the webmaster an email stating that we > can't see their content because Flash is not available for FreeBSD? I > wonder if we could generate a noticeable volume. > I remember Firefox / Mozilla having a system like this. They had a website that you could post / list sites that didn't work with the browser, then we would send complaints to the site owners. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 04:08:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D7B216A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 04:08:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from algould@datawok.com) Received: from smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C132443D45 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 04:08:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from algould@datawok.com) Received: from [206.255.31.21] (helo=grokwell.org) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1EwXHI-000468-TG for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:08:05 -0500 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:08:12 -0600 From: "Andrew L. Gould" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060110220812.1a51b70a@grokwell.org> In-Reply-To: References: <20060109081209.114ce611@grokwell.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 1.9.13 (GTK+ 2.6.9; i386-portbld-freebsd6.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ELNK-Trace: ee791d459e3d6817d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc8e5914839f00b531462abbd8a4dfbf1a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 206.255.31.21 Subject: Re: Flash Petition (Was Re: FreeBSD as a Desktop Article) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 04:08:12 -0000 On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 08:45:13 -0600 Nikolas Britton wrote: > On 1/9/06, Andrew L. Gould wrote: > > On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 05:32:48 -0600 > > Nikolas Britton wrote: > > > > > On 1/8/06, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > > On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Nikolas Britton wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 1/5/06, Frank Laszlo wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> K=F6vesd=E1n G=E1bor wrote: > > > > >>> Nikolas Britton wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> On 1/4/06, James Cornell wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> never mind, I just made one so go sign it!!! > > > > >>>> http://www.petitiononline.com/flash4me/petition.html > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> I've signed it and posted it to a Hungarian open-source > > > > >>> community, but I think it would be nice if somebody from the > > > > >>> doc team can add it to the news on the website, so I cc'd > > > > >>> freebsd-doc@, I hope this helps geting Adobe to release a > > > > >>> working Flash for FreeBSD. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Regards, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Gabor Kovesdan > > > > >> > > > > >> Not to rain on the parade, but since when has one of those > > > > >> online petitions done any good? > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > It may be trivial but at least I did something to rectify it. > > > > > Talking about are problems will get us nowhere unless we also > > > > > do. Do you have a better plan of action? > > > > > > > > The problem is, anyone can sign a petition, even those that > > > > don't, nor will ever, use the software, which is what makes them > > > > meaningless :( > > > > > > > > You really need to get someone on the inside that is using > > > > FreeBSD and push from that direction ... unless its a product > > > > you can pay for, and then you make the dollars speak for you ... > > > > > > I make all IT, purchasing, decisions at my company. I suspect most > > > other senior IT folk also make or have strong influence in, > > > purchasing, decisions at their company's. What are the > > > demographics for people who use FreeBSD? I suspect a higher then > > > normal percentage of senior IT folk make up the ranks. Here's an > > > excellent example of the point I'm trying to make: Last year my > > > company wanted to build a flash website. I put my foot down and > > > said no, not everyone can use or see flash websites. Macromedia > > > lost a $999 dollar sale. > > > > > > > > > > > What about the FreeBSD Foundation ... maybe something that they > > > > can organize? > > > > > > I'm all for that and other organisations getting involved, maybe > > > they can actually do something too. > > > > How about a campaign where every time a FreeBSD user comes across a > > Flash website, he/she sends the webmaster an email stating that we > > can't see their content because Flash is not available for > > FreeBSD? I wonder if we could generate a noticeable volume. > > >=20 > I remember Firefox / Mozilla having a system like this. They had a > website that you could post / list sites that didn't work with the > browser, then we would send complaints to the site owners. Maybe we'll be lucky and gnash will help make this issue moot: http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2006011002026NWSWRL http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/ There are times I wish I knew more about programming than a few commands in Python and SQL. Andrew From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 14:28:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B35A916A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:28:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from algould@datawok.com) Received: from smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7D5543D6B for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:28:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from algould@datawok.com) Received: from [206.255.31.21] (helo=grokwell.org) by smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1Ewgx8-0008Pb-RH; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:27:55 -0500 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:28:00 -0600 From: "Andrew L. Gould" To: Tim Greening-Jackson Message-ID: <20060111082800.3e9f1cac@grokwell.org> In-Reply-To: <43c50ec2.42cbe3f2.31ad.352e@mx.gmail.com> References: <20060109081209.114ce611@grokwell.org> <43c50ec2.42cbe3f2.31ad.352e@mx.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 1.9.13 (GTK+ 2.6.9; i386-portbld-freebsd6.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ELNK-Trace: ee791d459e3d6817d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc2f99778af3c862e3db674a1e60b22915350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 206.255.31.21 Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Flash Petition (Was Re: FreeBSD as a Desktop Article) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:28:18 -0000 On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:57:28 -0000 Tim Greening-Jackson wrote: >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- > > advocacy@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Andrew L. Gould > > Sent: 09 January 2006 14:12 > > To: Nikolas Britton > > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; speedydemon@shadowdev.org; bor; > > Frank Laszlo; K=F6vesd=E1n G=E1@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: Flash Petition (Was Re: FreeBSD as a Desktop Article) > >=20 > > How about a campaign where every time a FreeBSD user comes across a > > Flash website, he/she sends the webmaster an email stating that we > > can't see their content because Flash is not available for > > FreeBSD? I wonder if we could generate a noticeable volume. >=20 > Well, I suppose if you wanted to be super-sneaky/smart, it's fairly > easy to write a web-crawler that would recurse its way through the > whole interweb thing noting those sites with flash and then > automatically mailing the webmaster. You could do it in about 10 > lines of Python (note I am NOT offering to do this - it's merely a > suggestion). >=20 Hmm...thanks for the suggestion; but no. I would like sincere consideration by Macromedia for a FreeBSD port of Flash. The least I can do is maintain my own sincerity/integrity. Andrew From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 13:57:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE6F16A48B for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:57:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from timgreeningjackson@gmail.com) Received: from uproxy.gmail.com (uproxy.gmail.com [66.249.92.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB14043D45 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:57:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from timgreeningjackson@gmail.com) Received: by uproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id o2so44557uge for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:57:23 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:to:cc:subject:date:organization:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:x-mimeole:thread-index:in-reply-to:from:message-id; b=j1Yb+eryGmo+xzgPFP3R3GFTpzs4XUGqlZR5Gx+VSJwoCQNn3dl91uCjF5CXjSPJHrYdJj+SQq49RCAvqTB4cZeMnyfMMKPQPF6Nvpasyfd9MeGSOyE5HoYoV8vK3sTf4pyioVXq6z9plCF0X+qu3p4Kw5FaEdzuTqzP+7nCteY= Received: by 10.66.239.7 with SMTP id m7mr309405ugh; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:57:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from tordella ( [213.106.189.79]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id j2sm307055ugf.2006.01.11.05.57.21; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:57:22 -0800 (PST) To: "'Andrew L. Gould'" , "'Nikolas Britton'" Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:57:28 -0000 Organization: Shellike Ltd. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Thread-Index: AcYWYn8A2bE9rvTCQXOPI56YUYvOrgAVBl0Q In-Reply-To: <20060109081209.114ce611@grokwell.org> From: Tim Greening-Jackson Message-ID: <43c50ec2.42cbe3f2.31ad.352e@mx.gmail.com> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 03:47:53 +0000 Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, speedydemon@shadowdev.org, 'bor' , 'Frank Laszlo' , KövesdánGá@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Flash Petition (Was Re: FreeBSD as a Desktop Article) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:57:28 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- > advocacy@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Andrew L. Gould > Sent: 09 January 2006 14:12 > To: Nikolas Britton > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; speedydemon@shadowdev.org; bor; = Frank > Laszlo; K=F6vesd=E1n G=E1@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Flash Petition (Was Re: FreeBSD as a Desktop Article) >=20 > How about a campaign where every time a FreeBSD user comes across a > Flash website, he/she sends the webmaster an email stating that we > can't see their content because Flash is not available for FreeBSD? I > wonder if we could generate a noticeable volume. Well, I suppose if you wanted to be super-sneaky/smart, it's fairly easy = to write a web-crawler that would recurse its way through the whole = interweb thing noting those sites with flash and then automatically mailing the webmaster. You could do it in about 10 lines of Python (note I am NOT offering to do this - it's merely a suggestion). From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 11 14:18:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744A816A41F for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:18:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from laszlof@vonostingroup.com) Received: from ritamari.vonostingroup.com (ritamari.vonostingroup.com [216.144.193.230]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2BBC43D45; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:18:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from laszlof@vonostingroup.com) Received: from adsl-68-72-248-38.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net ([68.72.248.38] helo=[192.168.1.33]) by ritamari.vonostingroup.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ewgna-00024K-7g; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:18:02 -0500 Message-ID: <43C51396.7060705@vonostingroup.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:17:58 -0500 From: Frank Laszlo User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Greening-Jackson References: <43c50ec2.42cbe3f2.31ad.352e@mx.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <43c50ec2.42cbe3f2.31ad.352e@mx.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.93.2.0 OpenPGP: url=http://www.franksworld.org/~laszlof/keys/0x0B3FCA4B.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ritamari.vonostingroup.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [26 6] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - vonostingroup.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 03:48:07 +0000 Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, speedydemon@shadowdev.org, 'bor' , "Kövesdán Gá"@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Flash Petition (Was Re: FreeBSD as a Desktop Article) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:18:09 -0000 Tim Greening-Jackson wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- >> advocacy@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Andrew L. Gould >> Sent: 09 January 2006 14:12 >> To: Nikolas Britton >> Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; speedydemon@shadowdev.org; bor; Frank >> Laszlo; Kövesdán Gá@FreeBSD.ORG >> Subject: Re: Flash Petition (Was Re: FreeBSD as a Desktop Article) >> >> How about a campaign where every time a FreeBSD user comes across a >> Flash website, he/she sends the webmaster an email stating that we >> can't see their content because Flash is not available for FreeBSD? I >> wonder if we could generate a noticeable volume. >> > > Well, I suppose if you wanted to be super-sneaky/smart, it's fairly easy to > write a web-crawler that would recurse its way through the whole interweb > thing noting those sites with flash and then automatically mailing the > webmaster. You could do it in about 10 lines of Python (note I am NOT > offering to do this - it's merely a suggestion). > Kinda like those crawlers that find broken links on you site and mail you offering to fix them.. I hate getting those and usually discard them as spam. I imagine the same would be true for your idea. __________________________________________________ Frank Laszlo System Administrator The VonOstin Group Email: laszlof@tvog.net WWW: http://www.vonostingroup.com Mobile: 248-863-7584