From owner-freebsd-arm@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 20 04:02:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E57B916A41F for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 04:02:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wittend@wwrinc.com) Received: from tranq1.tranquility.net (tranq1.tranquility.net [206.156.230.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63E3143D45 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 04:02:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wittend@wwrinc.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (oblivion.wwrinc.com [206.152.116.84] (may be forged)) by tranq1.tranquility.net (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k0K42ohB052921 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:02:56 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from wittend@wwrinc.com) Message-ID: <43D0607F.3000404@wwrinc.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:01:03 -0600 From: David Witten User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: ARM5 (?) - PXA255 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the StrongARM Processor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 04:02:58 -0000 For what it is worth, I would really like to be able to run FreeBSD on the Gumstix boards. In case someone's not familiar with them, they are PXA255 boards (at present) with 6 or 16 MB flash, 64Mb SRAM, a MMC Flash card socket, USB, I2C, SPI, and UARTS. Very inexpensive add-ons for robotics, WiFi, ethernet and other good stuff are available as well. Essentially a 200 or 400MHz PDA on an 20mm x 80 mm board (like a stick of gum). The least expensive board is < $100 US. Boards based on a more recent Intel PDA processors are reportedly due this spring, but the PXA255 is a well established processor. These come with Linux, but much of my other work is with BSD, and I would really prefer to stick with one OS. I have several of these things and they are fun, but I always have a nagging feeling that I am diluting my efforts by diddling with the Linux drivers when my real interest is in BSD. I would also really like to have an ARM7 port, probably something that could run on the Olimex LPC-H2294 board ($99 US) that has 16k + 1Mb SRAM and 256k + 4Mb Flash. Is either of these projects feasible, and is there anyone out there who has done work in either of these directions? From owner-freebsd-arm@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 20 04:54:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4863D16A41F for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 04:54:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B902143D48 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 04:54:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0K4psQG043294; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:51:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:52:06 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20060119.215206.85390099.imp@bsdimp.com> To: wittend@wwrinc.com From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <43D0607F.3000404@wwrinc.com> References: <43D0607F.3000404@wwrinc.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:51:54 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ARM5 (?) - PXA255 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the StrongARM Processor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 04:54:29 -0000 In message: <43D0607F.3000404@wwrinc.com> David Witten writes: : For what it is worth, I would really like to be able to run FreeBSD on : the Gumstix boards. Assuming that you mean: http://www.gumstix.org/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=gumstix : In case someone's not familiar with them, they are PXA255 boards (at : present) with 6 or 16 MB flash, 64Mb SRAM, a MMC Flash card socket, USB, : I2C, SPI, and UARTS. Very inexpensive add-ons for robotics, WiFi, : ethernet and other good stuff are available as well. Essentially a 200 : or 400MHz PDA on an 20mm x 80 mm board (like a stick of gum). The least : expensive board is < $100 US. 64MB is plenty of space to run FreeBSD. The company I work for is looking at running in 64MB, and we're thinking it will be plenty for what we're looking at putting on the box (although sshd might be a bit ambitious for our chip). 4MB flash will be enough for a kernel, but might not be enough for both a kernel and a ram disk. At least not without a lot of subsetting work. We're going to do some, but not likely to the level of busybox. Busybox might also be a good alternative, but since it is GPL'd, our company prefers not to use it... You'll need drivers for I2C, SPI and MMC controller. I'm working on a mmc stack for the board we're using, but the MMC bridge part might have a different interface and need its own driver. This is a doable project. : I would also really like to have an ARM7 port, probably something that : could run on the Olimex LPC-H2294 board ($99 US) that has 16k + 1Mb SRAM : and 256k + 4Mb Flash. : : Is either of these projects feasible, and is there anyone out there who : has done work in either of these directions? ARM7TDMI-S doesnt have a MMU. You are going to have a tough time porting FreeBSD. Such a small amount of ram/rom also is likely to be a problem. While there are some ARM7 CPUswhich do have a MMU that FreeBSD could run on (like the Cirrus Logic EP7312), I don't think the Phillips LPC2294 is one of them. Warner From owner-freebsd-arm@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 20 08:49:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79E6C16A41F for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:49:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wittend@wwrinc.com) Received: from tranq1.tranquility.net (tranq1.tranquility.net [206.156.230.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 199C943D49 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:49:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wittend@wwrinc.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (oblivion.wwrinc.com [206.152.116.84] (may be forged)) by tranq1.tranquility.net (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k0K8n2O9020813; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 02:49:08 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from wittend@wwrinc.com) Message-ID: <43D0A393.80103@wwrinc.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 02:47:15 -0600 From: David Witten User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. Warner Losh" References: <43D0607F.3000404@wwrinc.com> <20060119.215206.85390099.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20060119.215206.85390099.imp@bsdimp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ARM5 (?) - PXA255 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the StrongARM Processor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:49:17 -0000 Thanks for the reply. Yes, the link you provide points to the support site for the boards I'm referring to. This is sort of what I expected. I was unclear whether the efforts to port to ARM architectures supported non-MMU systems. I gather that they do not. I don't entirely understand how difficult it is to separate out the memory management strategy from the rest of the OS. I imagine that it is no simple undertaking. I have looked at uCLinux and uCos for those situations, but I'm not really certain that the ARM7 projects that interest me have real need of a full blown OS anyway. I suspect that a light weight real time executive is probably the most that is really necessary. If the box that you are putting together is based on or similar to the Gumstix designs, I know that sshd works well and is active by default on their standard boards. I have m0n0BSD running on a number of WRAP and Soekris boards, which use a Pentium 5 class AMD GEODE SC110 and I use these days as Firewall/IPSEC VPN endpoints with very satisfactory performance at 266 MHz. I don't believe that crypto is likely to be a problem on anything 200 MHz or above. Unfortunately, though these are low power boards, they still do not offer the power management and the physical density that the XScale family does. And while they are rugged and I2C plus a few GPIO's are pinned out on the boards, they don't provide the rich set of I/O facilities one could want. M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <43D0607F.3000404@wwrinc.com> > David Witten writes: > : For what it is worth, I would really like to be able to run FreeBSD on > : the Gumstix boards. > > Assuming that you mean: > http://www.gumstix.org/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=gumstix > > : In case someone's not familiar with them, they are PXA255 boards (at > : present) with 6 or 16 MB flash, 64Mb SRAM, a MMC Flash card socket, USB, > : I2C, SPI, and UARTS. Very inexpensive add-ons for robotics, WiFi, > : ethernet and other good stuff are available as well. Essentially a 200 > : or 400MHz PDA on an 20mm x 80 mm board (like a stick of gum). The least > : expensive board is < $100 US. > > 64MB is plenty of space to run FreeBSD. The company I work for is > looking at running in 64MB, and we're thinking it will be plenty for > what we're looking at putting on the box (although sshd might be a bit > ambitious for our chip). > > 4MB flash will be enough for a kernel, but might not be enough for > both a kernel and a ram disk. At least not without a lot of > subsetting work. We're going to do some, but not likely to the level > of busybox. Busybox might also be a good alternative, but since it is > GPL'd, our company prefers not to use it... > > You'll need drivers for I2C, SPI and MMC controller. I'm working on a > mmc stack for the board we're using, but the MMC bridge part might > have a different interface and need its own driver. > > This is a doable project. > > : I would also really like to have an ARM7 port, probably something that > : could run on the Olimex LPC-H2294 board ($99 US) that has 16k + 1Mb SRAM > : and 256k + 4Mb Flash. > : > : Is either of these projects feasible, and is there anyone out there who > : has done work in either of these directions? > > ARM7TDMI-S doesnt have a MMU. You are going to have a tough time > porting FreeBSD. Such a small amount of ram/rom also is likely to be > a problem. While there are some ARM7 CPUswhich do have a MMU that > FreeBSD could run on (like the Cirrus Logic EP7312), I don't think the > Phillips LPC2294 is one of them. > > Warner