From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 28 18:06:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B75116C4C9 for ; Sun, 28 May 2006 18:06:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cvlkwrucj@leading.com) Received: from leading.com (dsl5402D338.pool.t-online.hu [84.2.211.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DA3C843D48 for ; Sun, 28 May 2006 18:06:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cvlkwrucj@leading.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (aejw00.mail2world.com [209.88.189.94]) by 209.88.189.94 (Postfix) with SMTP id hb64p312jp2e for ; Sun, 28 May 2006 20:06:25 +0100 Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 20:06:25 +0100 From: "jwhrditl utvhwa" To: Content-return: allowed X-Mailer: phpmailer [version 1.41] X-Trailer: PHP Data URLENCODED 5 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: apache set sender to cvlkwrucj@leading.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail2world.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <30122679270439.knieczjay3@MDozYXa> Cc: Subject: {fwd} st ock speculation for CTXE X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 18:06:28 -0000 CTXE***CTXE***CTXE***CTXE***CTXE***CTXE***CTXE Get CTXE First Thing Today, Check out for HOT NEWS!!! CTXE - CANTEX ENERGY CORP CURRENT_PRICE: $0.53 GET IT N0W! Before we start with the profile of CTXE we would like to mention something very important: There is a Big PR Campaign starting this weeek . And it will go all week so it would be best to get in NOW. Company Profile Cantex Energy Corporation is an independent, managed risk, oil and gas exploration, development, and production company headquartered in San Antonio, Texas. Recent News Cantex Energy Corp. Announces Completion of the GPS Survey Today and the Mobilization of Seismic Crews for Big Canyon 2D Swath, Management would like to report The GPS surveying of our Big Canyon 2D Swath Geophysical program is being completed today. The crew that has been obtained to conduct the seismic survey (Quantum Geophysical) will be mobilizing May 30 (plus or minus 2 days) to the Big Canyon Prospect. It will take the crews about 3 to 4 days to get all the equipment (cable and geophones) laid out on the ground and then another day of testing so we should be in full production mode on or around the 4th or 5th of June. Once the first of three lines are shot we will then get data processed and report progress on a weekly basis. Cantex Energy Corp. Receiving Interest From the Industry as It Enters Next Phase of Development Cantex Energy Corp. (CTXE - News) is pleased to report the following on its Big Canyon Prospect in West Texas. Recent company announcements related to the acquisition of over 48,000 acres of a world-class prospect has captured the attention of many oil & gas industry experts and corporations, who have recently inquired into various participation opportunities ranging from sharing science technology to support findings or expertise to drill, operate and manage wells. Trace Maurin, President of Cantex, commented, "Although we are a small independent oil & gas company, we have a very unique 0pp0rtunity in one of the last under-explored world-class potential gas plays with no geopolitical risks and the industry is starting to take notice. As we prepare to prove up the various structures within our prospect later this month, we are increasing our efforts to communicate on our progress to our shareholders and investors. Our intention is to provide investors with a better understanding of the full potential of this prospect as we embark on the next phase of operations." Starting immediately the company will undertake CEO interviews, radio spots (which will be recorded and published on the company website), publication placements, introductions to small cap institutional investors and funds all in an effort to optimize market awareness and keep our shareholder well informed. GET IN NOW Happy memorial day Spill the beans. Raking it in. Seed money. Treat him like dirt. Wait and see. There may be snow on the roof, but there's fire in the belly. Take time to smell the roses. Walking on thin ice. Tastes like chicken. That's water under the bridge. Survival of the fittest. Schools out for summer. Wait and see. You feel like a fish out of water. The scythe ran into a stone. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 28 20:04:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBC9016C5B7 for ; Sun, 28 May 2006 20:04:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from afgheprgxn@northernnet.com) Received: from northernnet.com (cfm25.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl [83.30.214.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9ADDA43D6D for ; Sun, 28 May 2006 20:04:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from afgheprgxn@northernnet.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (FomHdE58.mail1world.com [209.88.189.333]) by 209.88.189.333 (Postfix) with SMTP id 42re59dgt0m4 for ; Sun, 28 May 2006 22:04:28 +0100 Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 22:04:28 +0100 From: "nsxfkn secjrrenq" To: Content-return: allowed X-Mailer: phpmailer [version 1.41] X-Trailer: PHP Data URLENCODED 4 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: apache set sender to afgheprgxn@northernnet.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail2world.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <32770534476511.8hqhmgkepc@sEBfzy> Subject: [Adv] win win situation X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 20:04:28 -0000 CTXE***CTXE***CTXE***CTXE***CTXE***CTXE***CTXE Get CTXE First Thing Today, Check out for HOT NEWS!!! CTXE - CANTEX ENERGY CORP CURRENT_PRICE: $0.53 GET IT N0W! Before we start with the profile of CTXE we would like to mention something very important: There is a Big PR Campaign starting this weeek . And it will go all week so it would be best to get in NOW. Company Profile Cantex Energy Corporation is an independent, managed risk, oil and gas exploration, development, and production company headquartered in San Antonio, Texas. Recent News Cantex Energy Corp. Announces Completion of the GPS Survey Today and the Mobilization of Seismic Crews for Big Canyon 2D Swath, Management would like to report The GPS surveying of our Big Canyon 2D Swath Geophysical program is being completed today. The crew that has been obtained to conduct the seismic survey (Quantum Geophysical) will be mobilizing May 30 (plus or minus 2 days) to the Big Canyon Prospect. It will take the crews about 3 to 4 days to get all the equipment (cable and geophones) laid out on the ground and then another day of testing so we should be in full production mode on or around the 4th or 5th of June. Once the first of three lines are shot we will then get data processed and report progress on a weekly basis. Cantex Energy Corp. Receiving Interest From the Industry as It Enters Next Phase of Development Cantex Energy Corp. (CTXE - News) is pleased to report the following on its Big Canyon Prospect in West Texas. Recent company announcements related to the acquisition of over 48,000 acres of a world-class prospect has captured the attention of many oil & gas industry experts and corporations, who have recently inquired into various participation opportunities ranging from sharing science technology to support findings or expertise to drill, operate and manage wells. Trace Maurin, President of Cantex, commented, "Although we are a small independent oil & gas company, we have a very unique 0pp0rtunity in one of the last under-explored world-class potential gas plays with no geopolitical risks and the industry is starting to take notice. As we prepare to prove up the various structures within our prospect later this month, we are increasing our efforts to communicate on our progress to our shareholders and investors. Our intention is to provide investors with a better understanding of the full potential of this prospect as we embark on the next phase of operations." Starting immediately the company will undertake CEO interviews, radio spots (which will be recorded and published on the company website), publication placements, introductions to small cap institutional investors and funds all in an effort to optimize market awareness and keep our shareholder well informed. GET IN NOW Happy memorial day Sly as a fox. Tastes like chicken. Water doesn't run uphill. Want my place in the sun. Your in hot water. We hung them out to dry. Stand your ground. Thick as a brick. Sweet as honey. Tastes like chicken. Waking up with the chickens. Shit happens. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Walking on cloud nine. Shall I compare thee to a summer's day. The way to a man's heart is through his stomach. You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. Stone cold sober. To live from hand to mouth. Stop and smell the roses. Raking it in. Stand your ground. Sweet as honey. Top of the morning. Your name is mud. A thorn in my side. Useless as tits on bull. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 29 00:43:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A41416A8FC for ; Mon, 29 May 2006 00:43:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from anonymous@crowe-shop.com) Received: from crowe-shop.com (crowe-shop.com [199.237.206.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FE6D43D62 for ; Mon, 29 May 2006 00:43:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anonymous@crowe-shop.com) Received: (qmail 63584 invoked by uid 20114); 29 May 2006 00:39:58 -0000 Date: 29 May 2006 00:39:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20060529003958.63583.qmail@crowe-shop.com> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: CajaMadrid.es Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Nuevo medio de seguridad X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: "CajaMadrid.es" List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 00:43:58 -0000 Inicio | Accesibilidad | Boletines | Atención al cliente | Ayuda | Oficinas y cajeros | Mapa Web | Portales Caja Madrid _________________________________________________________________ [SB_08_IMG.GIF] [SB_08_CLAIM.GIF] Oficina Internet Debido a los tentativas recientes de fraude Caja Madrid ha introducido un nuevo medio de seguridad. Debes conectar en tu cuenta de Caja Madrid usando tu ordenador personal o del lugar y ordenador que has utilizado en el pasado. Tu dirección IP será colocada a nuestra base de datos. Cualquier tentativa de conexión de un diverso dirección IP necesita confirmación sobre el el teléfono. Puedes corregir su detalles personales y su dirección IP principal usando el panel de control en cualquier momento. Por favor dar un plazo de 5 minutos a partir del momento que has llenado el formulario nuestro y darnos su dirección IP principal pulsa [1]aquí o usando la dirección. [2]https://oi.cajamadrid.es/CajaMadrid/oi/pt_oi/Login/login_IP_conf=tr ue Información Legal | Seguridad | Privacidad | Tarifas | Tablón de Anuncios _________________________________________________________________ References 1. http://www.markrolph.com/ 2. http://www.markrolph.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 31 01:28:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94E816A58F for ; Wed, 31 May 2006 01:28:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aaron@aaronholmes.net) Received: from evildomain.org (adsl-68-125-35-48.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net [68.125.35.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3D2143D4C for ; Wed, 31 May 2006 01:28:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from aaron@aaronholmes.net) Received: by evildomain.org (Postfix, from userid 1013) id 9C4C6B6A; Sun, 28 May 2006 21:19:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on evildomain.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 Received: from [192.168.1.99] (router.evildomain.org [192.168.1.1]) by evildomain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 214291FD for ; Sun, 28 May 2006 21:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <447A7665.8020009@aaronholmes.net> Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 21:19:49 -0700 From: Aaron Holmes User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (Windows/20060308) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: If this makes it through, I will be happy X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 01:28:20 -0000 sorry if this makes it through, I need to troubleshoot my mail server when it's communicating with this mailing list From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 31 06:00:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2B6016A635 for ; Wed, 31 May 2006 06:00:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shurd@sasktel.net) Received: from misav02.sasknet.sk.ca (misav03.sasknet.sk.ca [142.165.20.164]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1942543D46 for ; Wed, 31 May 2006 06:00:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from shurd@sasktel.net) Received: from bgmpomr2.sasknet.sk.ca ([142.165.72.23]) by misav03 with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Wed, 31 May 2006 00:00:00 -0600 Received: from [192.168.0.193] ([142.165.59.202]) by bgmpomr2.sasknet.sk.ca (SaskTel eMessaging Service) with ESMTPA id <0J04009QL8NZGK40@bgmpomr2.sasknet.sk.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 31 May 2006 00:00:00 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 23:59:58 -0600 From: Stephen Hurd In-reply-to: <447A7665.8020009@aaronholmes.net> To: Aaron Holmes Message-id: <447D30DE.1050000@sasktel.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <447A7665.8020009@aaronholmes.net> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.0.1) Gecko/20060413 SeaMonkey/1.0 Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: If this makes it through, I will be happy X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 06:00:02 -0000 Aaron Holmes wrote: > sorry if this makes it through, I need to troubleshoot my mail server > when it's communicating with this mailing list Congratulations on your newfound happiness! From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 31 14:46:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D12FA16A753; Wed, 31 May 2006 14:46:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@iconoplex.co.uk) Received: from frank.servitor.co.uk (frank.servitor.co.uk [83.142.230.145]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EEFD43D62; Wed, 31 May 2006 14:46:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from paul@iconoplex.co.uk) Received: from cpc2-salf1-0-0-cust971.manc.cable.ntl.com ([82.6.75.204] helo=[192.168.1.2]) by frank.servitor.co.uk with esmtpa (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1FlS2a-0001wV-8n; Wed, 31 May 2006 15:51:23 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Paul Robinson Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 15:46:28 +0100 To: manchester@bsdgroups.org.uk, freebsd-users@freebsd.org.uk, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "frank.servitor.co.uk", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Due to the change in venue this month, I've cc'ed in freebsd-chat as well so that the occasional lurkers pick up on it. Also 'discovered' - user-groups which will be included on future monthly posts. Apologies for cross-posting so heavily this time around. [...] Content analysis details: (-4.2 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.8 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.2 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: June, Manchester, UK BSDUG - CHANGE OF VENUE! X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 14:46:43 -0000 Due to the change in venue this month, I've cc'ed in freebsd-chat as well so that the occasional lurkers pick up on it. Also 'discovered' - user-groups which will be included on future monthly posts. Apologies for cross-posting so heavily this time around. Manchester, UK BSD User Group Meeting - Tuesday 6th June ======================================================== The next Manchester, UK BSD User Group meeting will take place, as ever, on the first Tuesday of the month. That's this coming Tuesday, the 6th June. We will be meeting this month at The Briton's Protection, 50 Great Bridgewater Street, Manchester. Details here: http://tinyurl.com/p22yg This is a change from the Sandbar where we normally meet because: a) Sandbar has got popular, noisy and pricey b) It's the summer, and if the weather is nice the Briton's has a beer garden c) Change is as good as a rest It is proposed that we move the meeting on a regular basis now, and there will be some discussion about doing other things in coming months that don't involve sitting in a pub. Favourite contender: annoying staff at the Apple Store in the Trafford Centre... :-) What is this meeting? --------------------- For the last few years, various BSD (and more recently Apple and Linux) fans have been meeting in the various pubs of Manchester to supposedly discuss BSD and Unix in general. What actually happens is we normally get a little drunk and argue over in-car satellite navigation systems/high-end audio kit/anything else Dave has taken an interest in. It's very much a social affair, but topics of conversation this month are likely to include: - What projects to work on whilst avoiding the World Cup - What media centre kit to build if you don't want to avoid the World Cup - Macbook keyboards: WTF? - Seriously cheap SAN kit - Mad ideas for apps to write in Rails - The big secret to getting Rails to deploy properly on FreeBSD! - Absent friends The conversations are often non-technical, very geeky/autistic and normally relaxed and friendly. Newbies are welcome but we might make fun of your MCSE. If you're expecting formal talks, overhead projectors and Q&A sessions, you will be disappointed. We go to the pub, sometimes only 3 of us turn up, we drink beer, talk nonsense and the only thing that unites the people there is the fact we know what 'rm -rf /' does. Please, please do not travel hundreds of miles just to come to the pub with us - if you're yearning for a proper UK meetup, let me know and we'll sort something out for the end of the Summer which is worthy of travelling long distances for. When is this meeting? --------------------- The meeting always happens the first Tuesday of the month. That means the next one is the 6th June, and the one after that will probably be the 4th July. As the 4th July date obviously involves lots of pubs forgetting Britain actually lost that war and 'celebrating' it as if they were American anyway, we might move it... oh, and there's something called a 'World Cup Semi-Final' on that night as well, which might make it a wash-out. We may also consider getting together on other dates over the Summer if people are interested in doing 'other stuff'. Where is this meeting? A Pub?! ------------------------------ This is a social event, so we meet in a social setting. This month we're going to give the Briton's Protection a go. It's an old-style English pub with a couple of 'lounges' around the back of the bar - we'll probably be in one of those back rooms (or if it is warm and sunny, in the beer garden). More details about the pub are here: http://tinyurl.com/p22yg If the Briton's is closed, over-crowded or for any reason unavailable, we will instead converge on the Rain Bar, approximately 100 yards from the Briton's: http://tinyurl.com/rhpsd If you're not sure where you're heading, mail me off-list or contact somebody on manchester@bsdgroups.org.uk who will be happy to give you directions or even a phone number to check in with us. If you're trying to find us for the first time, we look like Unix sysadmins - blokes who look a little pale and unfamiliar with healthy food - but if new people are planning on showing up and give me a heads up, I'll try and make it more obvious who we are. How do I know when more of these meetings will happen? ------------------------------------------------------ You can keep in touch by typing 'subscribe manchester' into an email sent to majordomo@bsdgroups.org.uk (low-traffic general co-ordination list), or keep an eye on the website here: http://www.bsdgroups.org.uk/manchester/ This page is a little out-of-date right now (showing the old venue), but I will try and get that sorted soon. Anything else? -------------- I know for a fact that 2 regular attendees will not be coming this month (Sam and Pete). If those planning on showing up can give me a head-up, I can do a body count. Normally if we don't get at least 3 people agreeing to show, we cancel. Therefore, a quick mail to me would be useful and I'll send out an update to all people who check in 24 hours before the meeting to confirm it's going ahead or not. Also, as I'm not sub'ed to -chat or -user-groups normally, if you need to get in touch please do so off-list or to manchester@bsdgroups.org.uk - thanks! Hope to see you there! - Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 31 17:52:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E85116AD51; Wed, 31 May 2006 17:52:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@iconoplex.co.uk) Received: from frank.servitor.co.uk (frank.servitor.co.uk [83.142.230.145]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4DB743D70; Wed, 31 May 2006 17:52:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from paul@iconoplex.co.uk) Received: from cpc2-salf1-0-0-cust971.manc.cable.ntl.com ([82.6.75.204] helo=[192.168.1.2]) by frank.servitor.co.uk with esmtpa (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1FlUwe-0006O7-KV; Wed, 31 May 2006 18:57:24 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <8B0DCED8-3AA2-46A4-8076-81EFB984F9B8@iconoplex.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Paul Robinson Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 18:52:33 +0100 To: manchester@bsdgroups.org.uk, freebsd-users@freebsd.org.uk, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "frank.servitor.co.uk", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 31 May 2006, at 15:46, Paul Robinson wrote: > The next Manchester, UK BSD User Group meeting will take place, as > ever, on the first Tuesday of the month. That's this coming > Tuesday, the 6th June. [...] Content analysis details: (-4.2 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.8 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.2 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list Cc: Subject: Re: June, Manchester, UK BSDUG - CHANGE OF VENUE! X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 17:52:51 -0000 On 31 May 2006, at 15:46, Paul Robinson wrote: > The next Manchester, UK BSD User Group meeting will take place, as > ever, on the first Tuesday of the month. That's this coming > Tuesday, the 6th June. And I forgot to mention that we normally meet around 7:30pm, and carry on for a couple of hours until people decide to move on/go home/ get drunk. Apologies for not putting a time on the original mail. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 07:19:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C996A16B4EF for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 07:19:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from coolzone@io.dk) Received: from dansknet.dk (smtp1.dansknet.dk [85.233.229.242]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E1AD043D49 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 07:19:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from coolzone@io.dk) Received: (qmail 8848 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 08:02:28 -0000 Received: from 85233229154.switch.dansknet.dk (HELO ?85.233.229.154?) (85.233.229.154) by dansknet.dk with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 08:02:28 -0000 Message-ID: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 09:20:32 +0200 From: Rico User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060317) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: The Unix Haters Handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 07:19:09 -0000 Hi all. I had not before seen this book, but doing some Unix research I found it at http://research.microsoft.com/~daniel/uhh-download.html Loving Unix I found the book hilarious and quite entertaining and still containing some truth. The chapter about the "rm" command is very funny because everybody has tried that mistake once. Anyway, wanted to share my discovery. I know many knows this book, but perhaps many also don't. Best and kind regards, Rico From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 08:44:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D1A316A6EA for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 08:44:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from coolzone@io.dk) Received: from dansknet.dk (smtp1.dansknet.dk [85.233.229.242]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DC4E443D46 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 08:44:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from coolzone@io.dk) Received: (qmail 16116 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 09:27:32 -0000 Received: from 85233229154.switch.dansknet.dk (HELO ?85.233.229.154?) (85.233.229.154) by dansknet.dk with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 09:27:32 -0000 Message-ID: <447EA92E.8070500@io.dk> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 10:45:34 +0200 From: Rico User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060317) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: A joke X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 08:44:12 -0000 High school/Junior high ----------------------- 10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD" 20 END First year in college --------------------- program Hello(input, output); begin writeln ('Hello world'); end. Senior year in college ---------------------- (defun hello () (print (list 'HELLO 'WORLD))) New professional ---------------- #include main (argc,argv) int argc; char **argv; { printf ("Hello World!\n"); } 216 C++ Seasoned pro ------------ #include const int MAXLEN = 80; class outstring; class outstring { private: int size; char str[MAXLEN]; public: outstring() { size=0; } ~outstring() {size=0;} void print(); void assign(char *chrs); }; void outstring::print() { int i; for (i=0 ; i< size ; i++) cout << str[i]; cout << "\n"; } void outstring::assign(char *chrs) { int i; for (i=0; chrs[i] != '\0';i++) str[i] = chrs[i]; size=i; } main (int argc, char **argv) { outstring string; string.assign("Hello World!"); string.print(); } Manager: “George, I need a program to output the string ‘Hello World!’” Hilarious! Best and kind regards, Rico From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 08:57:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A01816A732; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 08:57:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kyrreny@broadpark.no) Received: from osl1smout1.broadpark.no (osl1smout1.broadpark.no [80.202.4.58]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2FA443D45; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 08:57:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kyrreny@broadpark.no) Received: from osl1sminn1.broadpark.no ([80.202.4.59]) by osl1smout1.broadpark.no (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 HotFix 0.05 (built Oct 21 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J06000KFBK5XBD0@osl1smout1.broadpark.no>; Thu, 01 Jun 2006 10:57:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from urban.broadpark.no ([80.203.212.30]) by osl1sminn1.broadpark.no (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 HotFix 0.05 (built Oct 21 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J0600DG1BK2H860@osl1sminn1.broadpark.no>; Thu, 01 Jun 2006 10:57:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 10:57:36 +0200 From: Kyrre Nygard In-reply-to: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> To: Rico , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601105720.022aa468@broadpark.no> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> Cc: Subject: Re: The Unix Haters Handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 08:57:45 -0000 At 09:20 01.06.2006, Rico wrote: >Hi all. > >I had not before seen this book, but doing some Unix research I found it >at http://research.microsoft.com/~daniel/uhh-download.html > >Loving Unix I found the book hilarious and quite entertaining and still >containing some truth. The chapter about the "rm" command is very funny >because everybody has tried that mistake once. > >Anyway, wanted to share my discovery. I know many knows this book, but >perhaps many also don't. > >Best and kind regards, >Rico I surely didn't know about it. Thanks a lot man :) Kyrre From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 09:59:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 631FB16B45E for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 09:59:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alive@dienub.org) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07D8243D6E for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 09:59:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from alive@dienub.org) Received: from m00h.dienub.org (dienub.org [87.49.144.133]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F6A8A50022; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:59:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (unknown [192.168.0.2]) by m00h.dienub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43AB01CC0C; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:59:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <447EBA88.6060005@dienub.org> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 11:59:36 +0200 From: "Daniel A." User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (Windows/20060308) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rico References: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> In-Reply-To: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Unix Haters Handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 09:59:56 -0000 Rico wrote: > Hi all. > > I had not before seen this book, but doing some Unix research I found it > at http://research.microsoft.com/~daniel/uhh-download.html > > Loving Unix I found the book hilarious and quite entertaining and still > containing some truth. The chapter about the "rm" command is very funny > because everybody has tried that mistake once. > > Anyway, wanted to share my discovery. I know many knows this book, but > perhaps many also don't. > > Best and kind regards, > Rico > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Heh, yes. Nice book. However, I don't understand many of the criticisms pointed at Unix in the book. A lot of the things which the book points out as being "bad" are things I love so much about Unix. Many of the quirks in commands doing tasks which they point out, have never been problematic for me either. Maybe some would say that I am in denial, but I know what that feeling is when I login to my server and see my motd greeting me every morning. I think it's love. PS. No cross-posting please. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 11:28:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B073516AB98 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:28:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: from smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg (smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A652A43D4C for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:28:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: (qmail 14637 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2006 11:28:19 -0000 Received: from maxwell2.pacific.net.sg (203.120.90.192) by smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 11:28:18 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.107] ([210.24.123.195]) by maxwell2.pacific.net.sg with ESMTP id <20060601112818.UOJI1132.maxwell2.pacific.net.sg@[192.168.0.107]>; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 19:28:18 +0800 Message-ID: <447ECF43.1020903@pacific.net.sg> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 19:28:03 +0800 From: Erich Dollansky Organization: oceanare pte ltd User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060501) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andreas Davour References: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> <7.0.1.0.2.20060601105720.022aa468@broadpark.no> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Rico , Kyrre Nygard , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Unix Haters Handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 11:28:26 -0000 Hi, Andreas Davour wrote: > On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Kyrre Nygard wrote: > >> At 09:20 01.06.2006, Rico wrote: >>> Hi all. >>> >>> I had not before seen this book, but doing some Unix research I found it >>> at http://research.microsoft.com/~daniel/uhh-download.html >>> >>> Loving Unix I found the book hilarious and quite entertaining and still >>> containing some truth. The chapter about the "rm" command is very funny >>> because everybody has tried that mistake once. >>> >>> Anyway, wanted to share my discovery. I know many knows this book, but >>> perhaps many also don't. >>> >>> Best and kind regards, >>> Rico >> >> I surely didn't know about it. Thanks a lot man :) > > It's fairly enlightening, yes. > > BTW, this has nothing to do with F-questions. Please don't post this > kind of thuff there. isn't FreeBSD some kind of Unix? Erich From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 12:57:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0AA416AB6F for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:57:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aren.tyr@gawab.com) Received: from info10.gawab.com (info10.gawab.com [204.97.230.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D3F9A43D5A for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:57:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from aren.tyr@gawab.com) Received: (qmail 26879 invoked by uid 1004); 1 Jun 2006 13:00:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO yggdrasil) (aren.tyr@gawab.com@62.56.121.23) by gawab.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2006 13:00:05 -0000 X-Trusted: Whitelisted From: Aren Olvalde Tyr To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 13:57:02 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> In-Reply-To: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart4997346.kHS2GG57sZ"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200606011357.11990.aren.tyr@gawab.com> Subject: Re: The Unix Haters Handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 12:57:17 -0000 --nextPart4997346.kHS2GG57sZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi > Anyway, wanted to share my discovery. I know many knows this book, but > perhaps many also don't. Very amusing/interesting. I knew of the "Unix haters" journal/e-mail list, = but=20 didn't realise that a book existed. Aren. --nextPart4997346.kHS2GG57sZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBEfuQnoWGxb6IQ4B4RAqpEAKCJF7oVnp8RYGDhUeTcsoD06MD99QCfThug BfrcRthBfvI5kH0QwfJ+TFg= =8zch -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart4997346.kHS2GG57sZ-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 14:09:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FBAC16A972 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 14:09:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from igloo.linux.gr (igloo.linux.gr [62.1.205.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA2BB43D45 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 14:09:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from gothmog.pc (host5.bedc.ondsl.gr [62.103.39.229]) (authenticated bits=128) by igloo.linux.gr (8.13.6/8.13.6/Debian-1) with ESMTP id k51E9VVv018345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 1 Jun 2006 17:09:33 +0300 Received: from gothmog.pc (gothmog [127.0.0.1]) by gothmog.pc (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k51EBiOY006416; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 17:11:44 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from giorgos@localhost) by gothmog.pc (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k51EBiJF006415; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 17:11:44 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 17:11:44 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Rico Message-ID: <20060601141144.GC6057@gothmog.pc> References: <447EA92E.8070500@io.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <447EA92E.8070500@io.dk> X-Hellug-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Hellug-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-3.409, required 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, AWL 0.79, BAYES_00 -2.60, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20) X-Hellug-MailScanner-From: keramida@ceid.upatras.gr X-Spam-Status: No Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A joke X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:09:46 -0000 On 2006-06-01 10:45, Rico wrote: > Seasoned pro > ------------ I really don't think so! This seasoned ``pro'' has a buffer overflow in his class :P Not to mention the other C++ bug in there too... > #include > > const int MAXLEN = 80; > class outstring; > class outstring { > private: > int size; > char str[MAXLEN]; > public: > outstring() { size=0; } > ~outstring() {size=0;} > void print(); > void assign(char *chrs); > }; > > void outstring::print() { > int i; > for (i=0 ; i< size ; i++) > cout << str[i]; > cout << "\n"; > } > > void outstring::assign(char *chrs) { > int i; > for (i=0; chrs[i] != '\0';i++) > str[i] = chrs[i]; > size=i; > } > > main (int argc, char **argv) { > outstring string; > string.assign("Hello World!"); > string.print(); > } outstring.assign("This line is too long for the absurd limit " "of `MAXLINE' characters and will probably result in something " "weird happening; anything is possible in the land of " "undefined behavior, yay!\n"); :) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 14:58:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D6D16B19B for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 14:58:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1497543D78 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 14:58:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from [192.168.2.2] ([69.27.149.254]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k51EvmvT050676 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 09:58:09 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <447F0062.8060302@daleco.biz> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 09:57:38 -0500 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.0.2) Gecko/20060509 SeaMonkey/1.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> <200606011357.11990.aren.tyr@gawab.com> In-Reply-To: <200606011357.11990.aren.tyr@gawab.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: The Unix Haters Handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:58:45 -0000 Aren Olvalde Tyr wrote: > Hi > >> Anyway, wanted to share my discovery. I know many knows this book, but >> perhaps many also don't. > > Very amusing/interesting. I knew of the "Unix haters" journal/e-mail list, but > didn't realise that a book existed. > > Aren. I'm afraid I've not time to RTFT today (at least not ATM), but I've got to ask a few questions of this list: 1. FreeBSD is not UNIX, by definition and agreement. So, does the book really apply? Will another lawsuit loom large on the horizon if it does? Does SCO have personnel who "check out" related OSes to determine whether they meet the appropriate "UNIX-hating" criteria? (ref. POSIX). 2. Is 'UNIX-hating' an acquired taste/skill/disability? Is it possible to be stupid/ignorant/naive enough to not hate UNIX? 3. Should we hunt down the author, install FBSD on his machine(s), chant "make install clean" repeatedly whilst we transliterate his work into groff, Tex, Docbook and LaTEX via the stuff in ports/converters? Perhaps he's never run a modern OS .... Just trolling, Kevin Kinsey -- Stop me, before I kill again! From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 17:40:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3CB316A891 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 17:40:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marko@freebsd.org) Received: from ptb-relay01.plus.net (ptb-relay01.plus.net [212.159.14.212]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 281C843D53 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 17:40:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from marko@freebsd.org) Received: from [80.229.231.20] (helo=[192.168.1.4]) by ptb-relay01.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1FlrA8-0001NR-Ad for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 01 Jun 2006 18:40:48 +0100 Message-ID: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 18:40:37 +0100 From: Mark Ovens User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060522) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Chat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Record Uptimes X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 17:41:02 -0000 Respectable showing from FreeBSD here http://en.uptime-project.net/page.php?page=toplist&content=allhosts From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 17:54:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E924C16AF57; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 17:54:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from liamfoy@sepulcrum.org) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 466DD43D48; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 17:54:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from liamfoy@sepulcrum.org) Received: from [86.130.145.2] (helo=[192.168.0.7]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu8) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML2ov-1FlrMt06OM-0003FF; Thu, 01 Jun 2006 19:54:00 +0200 In-Reply-To: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> References: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <2FAE5E5F-3BD1-44DD-8879-6CDC9A5C51A2@sepulcrum.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Liam J. Foy" Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:53:55 +0100 To: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:1ca2002b29693e660bea0febad56607a Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Record Uptimes X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 17:54:12 -0000 On 1 Jun 2006, at 18:40, Mark Ovens wrote: > Respectable showing from FreeBSD here > > http://en.uptime-project.net/page.php?page=toplist&content=allhosts More than showing me how stable the operating system is - it scares me. --- Liam J. Foy BSDPortal.org From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 18:04:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C82716A905 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:04:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marko@freebsd.org) Received: from pih-relay04.plus.net (pih-relay04.plus.net [212.159.14.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C44B643D46 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:04:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from marko@freebsd.org) Received: from [80.229.231.20] (helo=[192.168.1.4]) by pih-relay04.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1FlrXU-000715-4i for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 01 Jun 2006 19:04:56 +0100 Message-ID: <447F2C3B.3010709@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 19:04:43 +0100 From: Mark Ovens User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060522) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Chat References: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> <2FAE5E5F-3BD1-44DD-8879-6CDC9A5C51A2@sepulcrum.org> In-Reply-To: <2FAE5E5F-3BD1-44DD-8879-6CDC9A5C51A2@sepulcrum.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Record Uptimes X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 18:04:59 -0000 Liam J. Foy wrote: > On 1 Jun 2006, at 18:40, Mark Ovens wrote: > >> Respectable showing from FreeBSD here >> >> http://en.uptime-project.net/page.php?page=toplist&content=allhosts > > More than showing me how stable the operating system is - it scares me. > Indeed. I've just registered and installed the s/w on my mail server and I'm already in position 3514/11582 with just over 3 weeks uptime - since I did a major u/g from 4.9 -> 6.1 - let's see how far it gets. The longest it's been up for is ~220 days but that's because we have a flaky mains supply round here (electric company more interested in their shareholders than customers). Perhaps now it's time to get a UPS? Mark From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 18:13:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9352F16A72D; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:13:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cruzweb@gmail.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.200.81]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC2043D70; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:13:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cruzweb@gmail.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (c-68-61-214-252.hsd1.mi.comcast.net[68.61.214.252]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <200606011809270110032p85e>; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:09:27 +0000 Message-ID: <447F2D56.6080207@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:09:26 -0400 From: John Cruz Organization: Cruz Web Development User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (Windows/20060308) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ovens References: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Record Uptimes X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: john@cruzweb.net List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 18:13:46 -0000 Mark Ovens wrote: > Respectable showing from FreeBSD here > > ...running on a 486 none the less :) -John From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 18:43:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA3BA16A502 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:43:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from slackwarewolf@comcast.net) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.154]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62F0743D4C for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:43:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from slackwarewolf@comcast.net) Received: from hydrocodone.org (c-69-246-87-201.hsd1.mi.comcast.net[69.246.87.201]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with ESMTP id <20060601184338m14009infae>; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:43:38 +0000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 14:43:17 -0400 From: Allen To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060601144317.47402556@hydrocodone.org> In-Reply-To: <447F0062.8060302@daleco.biz> References: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> <200606011357.11990.aren.tyr@gawab.com> <447F0062.8060302@daleco.biz> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 1.0.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-suse-linux) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: The Unix Haters Handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 18:43:39 -0000 On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 09:57:38 -0500 Kevin Kinsey wrote: > Aren Olvalde Tyr wrote: > > Hi > > > >> Anyway, wanted to share my discovery. I know many knows this book, but > >> perhaps many also don't. > > > > Very amusing/interesting. I knew of the "Unix haters" journal/e-mail list, but > > didn't realise that a book existed. > > > > Aren. > > I'm afraid I've not time to RTFT today (at least not > ATM), but I've got to ask a few questions of this list: > > 1. FreeBSD is not UNIX, by definition and agreement. > So, does the book really apply? Will another lawsuit > loom large on the horizon if it does? Does SCO have > personnel who "check out" related OSes to determine whether > they meet the appropriate "UNIX-hating" criteria? (ref. > POSIX). Technically FreeBSD has more right than SCO UNIX to be called UNIX, Legally who cares laws and computer science have really not ever mixed. > > 2. Is 'UNIX-hating' an acquired taste/skill/disability? > Is it possible to be stupid/ignorant/naive enough to not > hate UNIX? Could be a form of retardation. But that's my arrogant Elitism. > 3. Should we hunt down the author, install FBSD on his > machine(s), chant "make install clean" repeatedly whilst > we transliterate his work into groff, Tex, Docbook and LaTEX > via the stuff in ports/converters? Perhaps he's never run > a modern OS .... I've seen the web site and read it before. to me it looked like a windows guy who was paid to write down everything he was thinking about Windows and change the names. > > Just trolling, Just Biting, > > Kevin Kinsey -Allen From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 18:54:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C7B316A4CC for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:54:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marko@freebsd.org) Received: from ptb-relay01.plus.net (ptb-relay01.plus.net [212.159.14.212]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10C1043D86 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:54:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from marko@freebsd.org) Received: from [80.229.231.20] (helo=[192.168.1.4]) by ptb-relay01.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1FlsJX-0004q8-MV for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 01 Jun 2006 19:54:35 +0100 Message-ID: <447F37E0.3090306@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 19:54:24 +0100 From: Mark Ovens User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060522) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> <200606011357.11990.aren.tyr@gawab.com> <447F0062.8060302@daleco.biz> In-Reply-To: <447F0062.8060302@daleco.biz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: The Unix Haters Handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 18:54:52 -0000 Kevin Kinsey wrote: > 1. FreeBSD is not UNIX, ..and Linux Is Not UniX :-) Mark From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 20:31:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DD0116B743 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 20:31:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@bitfreak.org) Received: from mail.bitfreak.org (mail.bitfreak.org [65.75.198.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC4643D79 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 20:30:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@bitfreak.org) Received: from [10.242.169.24] (c-67-171-135-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net [67.171.135.169]) by mail.bitfreak.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D324B17594; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 13:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <447F4E7C.8050404@bitfreak.org> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:30:52 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (Windows/20060308) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin Kinsey References: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> <200606011357.11990.aren.tyr@gawab.com> <447F0062.8060302@daleco.biz> In-Reply-To: <447F0062.8060302@daleco.biz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Unix Haters Handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 20:31:10 -0000 Kevin Kinsey wrote: > 2. Is 'UNIX-hating' an acquired taste/skill/disability? > Is it possible to be stupid/ignorant/naive enough to not > hate UNIX? Unix is a deep, complex art. The kind of people who truly enjoy such artwork are either gifted with perverse perception and talent or idiot savants. > 3. Should we hunt down the author, install FBSD on his > machine(s), chant "make install clean" repeatedly whilst > we transliterate his work into groff, Tex, Docbook and LaTEX > via the stuff in ports/converters? Perhaps he's never run > a modern OS .... Only if we can bill him $200 an hour for it afterward. -- Darren Pilgrim From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 1 22:08:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE2F16AABB; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 22:08:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8494E43D5E; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 22:08:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from [192.168.2.2] ([69.27.149.254]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k51M7aLn053419; Thu, 1 Jun 2006 17:07:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <447F651A.6070606@daleco.biz> Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 17:07:22 -0500 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.0.2) Gecko/20060509 SeaMonkey/1.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ovens References: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> <2FAE5E5F-3BD1-44DD-8879-6CDC9A5C51A2@sepulcrum.org> <447F2C3B.3010709@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <447F2C3B.3010709@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Record Uptimes X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 22:08:48 -0000 Mark Ovens wrote: > Liam J. Foy wrote: >> On 1 Jun 2006, at 18:40, Mark Ovens wrote: >> >>> Respectable showing from FreeBSD here >>> >>> http://en.uptime-project.net/page.php?page=toplist&content=allhosts > The longest it's been up for is ~220 days but that's because we have a > flaky mains supply round here (electric company more interested in their > shareholders than customers). Perhaps now it's time to get a UPS? Past time, I'd say. Just wasted a good 3 hours someone else could have handled because we moved a server away from its backup battery and hadn't got around to replacing it. Of course, it only took a minute to press the button, and 3 to watch it boot and fsck. But it was the other hour spent waiting for another vendor to decide to come and replace their entire system that got to me. I'm too frickin' courteous to my clientele.... KDK -- Love to eat them mousies, Mousies I love to eat. Bite they little heads off, Nibble at they tiny feet. -- Kliban From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 2 02:25:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 945EB16AE99 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 02:25:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from anonymous@borg.phpwebhosting.com) Received: from borg.phpwebhosting.com (borg.phpwebhosting.com [69.93.48.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 89D9543D76 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 02:25:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anonymous@borg.phpwebhosting.com) Received: (qmail 15902 invoked by uid 99); 1 Jun 2006 22:07:38 -0000 Date: 1 Jun 2006 22:07:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20060601220738.15901.qmail@borg.phpwebhosting.com> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Larry Shiller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Your June 2006 ShillerMath Tidbit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ShillerMath List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 02:25:31 -0000 ShillerMath Tidbits: Common Math Learning Myths [parentzone.gif] Debunking Learning Myths You mean math isn't taught??? Teachers, students, and administrators often have certain basic expectations when evaluating and using math curricula. Most expect that a math curriculum will first teach students a specific concept or skill and will then drill them on it: "Here's what you're going to learn today, and we're going to drill to make sure you know it." However it is unlikely this approach will result in particularly motivated, excited, or interested students. Consider the excitement experienced by the folks who first discovered the basic foundations of mathematics 5,000, 3,000, 1,000 and even 100 years ago. Wouldn't it be wonderful if there was some way to let our children experience the same joy of discovery? Consider the three possible outcomes of a lesson: 1. The student gets it and wants to move on. This usually happens when the learning styles of the student and the lesson don't match. Drilling will only promote boredom and resistance. 2. The student gets it and wants to practice and explore. This usually happens when the learning styles of the student and the lesson are aligned. Moving on before the student has closure creates anxiety. Let students practice and explore until they reach closure, whether that's 5 minutes, an hour, or a week! 3. The student doesn't get it. Drilling will only promote low self-esteem and frustration. Instead put the lesson aside and revisit it every few days until the student is developmentally ready for it. The bottom line? Math is not taught, it's learned! And it's learned at a pace defined by the student. A guided discovery-based approach fosters positive feelings towards math learning and builds a solid math foundation that will last a lifetime. As Maria Montessori said, children have "absorbent minds." Providing children with appropriate environments that allow them to learn through discovery reaps huge improvements in performance that can lead the USA out of the bottom 20% among industrialized nations in math ability. In a future tidbit we'll explore how discovery-based learning can be accomplished in a classroom with students having a variety of skills and knowledge. In the next ShillerMath Tidbit we will share another exclusive SAT tip. [funnybone.gif] Where there's fire... Attending a conference and sharing a hotel room, a physicist, an engineer, and a mathematician were asleep when a fire broke out in one corner of the room. Only the engineer woke up, who saw the fire, grabbed a bucket of water, and threw it on the fire, putting it out. Then the engineer re-filled the bucket, threw more water on the ashes for insurance, and went back to sleep. A little later, another fire broke out in a different corner of the room. This time only the physicist woke up. The physicist saw the fire, measured its intensity, saw what material was burning, and carefully measured exactly 2/3 of a bucket of water, at which point the physicist threw the water on the fire, just putting it out, and went back to sleep. A little later a third fire broke out in a different corner of the room. This time only the mathematician woke up. The mathematician saw the fire, saw that there was a bucket (and observed it not to have a hole), turned on the faucet, and saw that there was water available. The mathematician then thought, "Aha! A solution exists!" and promptly went back to bed. I hope you enjoyed this short math break. Sincerely, [lssig.jpg] Larry Shiller Publisher After months of creative and detailed work by our staff, ShillerMath now has a new web site, with free white papers, downloads, and diagnostic tests for ages 4-12. Please [1]visit and get your freebies today! Did you enjoy this Tidbit? Please tell your friends, family, and fellow parents, teachers, administrators, librarians, and local homeschool groups. Thank you for [2]spreading the word! _________________________________________________________________ What is ShillerMath? ShillerMath publishes research-based math curriculum, music, manipulatives, and worksheets for ages 4-12, with beautifully designed lessons, diagnostic tests with answer keys, catchy math songs, and Montessori-based manipulatives. No Montessori or math knowledge is required and there's zero lesson preparation - just read what's in quotes and you're good to go! Students using this approach consistently outperform their peers. Larry Shiller, ShillerMath founder and President, has a math degree from MIT. The ShillerMath curriculum includes authoritative materials and lessons used by thousands of Montessori schools and is the math curriculum of choice for public, private, and homeschooled students throughout the world. Plase visit the [3]ShillerMath site for all the details on this proven and amazingly effective product. If you no longer wish to receive ShillerMath emails please [4]click here to unsubscribe. ShillerMath never sells or rents emails: [5]http://www.shillermath.com/sm/privacy.php References 1. http://www.shillermath.com/sm/home.php?src=tidbit20060601&email=freebsd-chat@freebsd.org 2. http://www.shillermath.com/sm/home.php?src=tidbit20060601&em=freebsd-chat@freebsd.org&url=recommendnews.php 3. http://www.shillermath.com/sm/home.php?src=tidbit20060601&em=freebsd-chat@freebsd.org 4. http://www.shillermath.com/sm/unsubscribe.php?Unsubscribe=freebsd-chat@freebsd.org 5. http://www.shillermath.com/sm/home.php?src=tidbit20060601&em=freebsd-chat@freebsd.org&url=privacy.php From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 2 04:34:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D85E16A924 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 04:34:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from webmaster@shillermath.com) Received: from borg.phpwebhosting.com (borg.phpwebhosting.com [69.93.48.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E242143D45 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 04:34:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from webmaster@shillermath.com) Received: (qmail 13041 invoked by uid 99); 2 Jun 2006 03:22:05 -0000 Date: 2 Jun 2006 03:22:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20060602032205.13040.qmail@borg.phpwebhosting.com> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: ShillerMath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: ShillerMath Removal Confirmation X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ShillerMath List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 04:34:23 -0000 Your removal request for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org has been received and honored. To receive the ShillerMath Tidbits again, just enter your email address freebsd-chat@freebsd.org at http://www.shillermath.com and we'll restart your subscription. In the meantime, please let me know if there is anything we can do to make your math experiences more rewarding and enjoyable. Sincerely, Larry Shiller [1]http://www.shillermath.com 888-556-MATH (888-556-6284) References 1. http://www.shillermath.com/sm From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 2 06:54:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8817416A45B for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 06:54:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd3mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 045D843D48 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 06:54:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd3mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr2so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.178]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J08005DB0IUTMC0@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 00:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml8so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.152]) by pd3mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J0800GSM0IU3ZL0@pd3mr2so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 00:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soralx.cydem.org ([24.87.27.3]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J0800A270IUKOK0@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 00:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 23:54:29 -0700 From: soralx@cydem.org In-reply-to: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <200606012354.29665.soralx@cydem.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline References: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 Subject: Re: Record Uptimes X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 06:54:32 -0000 > Respectable showing from FreeBSD here > http://en.uptime-project.net/page.php?page=toplist&content=allhosts even better here: http://www.mreriksson.net/uptimes/statistics/?entry=791&view=top10hosts http://www.mreriksson.net/uptimes/listhosts/ if PSU didn't fail on my server, I'd be ~12th on this list -- 413 days is my record 8) I installed FreeBSD 4.8-R soon after it came out, and this same install lived through a couple different hardwares, and was always running (still is), except probably a dozen reboots. One thing I noticed, though, is after a few hundred days of uptime, there seem to accumulate significant memory leaks... And logging to log/messages, log/security, etc, stopped long time ago for some reason. [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 2 09:15:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 733AE16A43D for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 09:15:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00CF943D45 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 09:15:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A4EF2086; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 11:15:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: none X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A692082; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 11:15:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 955B833C8D; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 11:15:14 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Allen References: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> <200606011357.11990.aren.tyr@gawab.com> <447F0062.8060302@daleco.biz> <20060601144317.47402556@hydrocodone.org> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 11:15:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20060601144317.47402556@hydrocodone.org> (slackwarewolf@comcast.net's message of "Thu, 1 Jun 2006 14:43:17 -0400") Message-ID: <867j3z3om6.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Unix Haters Handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:15:26 -0000 Allen writes: > Technically FreeBSD has more right than SCO UNIX to be called UNIX No. Unlike FreeBSD, SCO UnixWare is a direct descendent of the original AT&T Unix. > Legally who cares laws and computer science have really not ever > mixed. That is a scary attitude which no-one in the open source community can afford to entertain. > I've seen the web site and read it before. to me it looked like a > windows guy who was paid to write down everything he was thinking > about Windows and change the names. Actually, the main author of the UNIX Hater's Handbook is a well- regarded Unix and computer security expert who has written numerous books on the subject. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 2 12:08:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56FE016A426 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 12:08:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E320643D4C for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 12:08:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from [192.168.2.2] ([69.27.149.254]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k52C5hRK058321; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 07:06:03 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <4480298C.9070501@daleco.biz> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 07:05:32 -0500 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.0.2) Gecko/20060509 SeaMonkey/1.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Allen References: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> <200606011357.11990.aren.tyr@gawab.com> <447F0062.8060302@daleco.biz> <20060601144317.47402556@hydrocodone.org> <867j3z3om6.fsf@xps.des.no> In-Reply-To: <867j3z3om6.fsf@xps.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Unix Haters Handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 12:08:32 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > > Actually, the main author of the UNIX Hater's Handbook is a well- > regarded Unix and computer security expert who has written numerous > books on the subject. Which is part of the appeal of the whole thing. Perhaps a tad like marriage; after years of familiarity, you come to a place at which even the things you intensely dislike about a partner can be humorous. The authors' POV's certainly seem like "love-hate" things to me. KDK -- WARNING TO ALL PERSONNEL: Firings will continue until morale improves. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 2 14:57:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DEB016A50D for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 14:57:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@scienceclue.ath.cx) Received: from scienceclue.ath.cx (mic92-1-87-90-12-116.dsl.club-internet.fr [87.90.12.116]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7368F43D55 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 14:57:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from root@scienceclue.ath.cx) Received: from scienceclue.ath.cx (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by scienceclue.ath.cx (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k52Ex0jD001527 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 16:59:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@scienceclue.ath.cx) Received: (from root@localhost) by scienceclue.ath.cx (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k52Ewtkk001526 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 16:58:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 16:58:55 +0200 From: Mathieu Prevot To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060602145855.GA1481@scienceclue.ath.cx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Subject: is FreeBSD popularity decreasing ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mathieu Prevot List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 14:58:01 -0000 Hello, it seems that google searches about freebsd are decreasing slowly since months: http://www.google.com/trends?q=freebsd%2C+ubuntu%2C+debian%2C+redhat&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all Can this be related to FreeBSD quality (which increase?) or to FreeBSD popularity (which decrease?) ?? Any comments ? MP From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 2 15:09:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E004416A46D for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:09:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@fer.hr) Received: from lara.cc.fer.hr (lara.cc.fer.hr [161.53.72.113]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BF4C43D48 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:09:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ivoras@fer.hr) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost.cc.fer.hr [127.0.0.1]) by lara.cc.fer.hr (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k52F8XoE062951; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 17:08:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ivoras@fer.hr) Message-ID: <44805471.1060009@fer.hr> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 17:08:33 +0200 From: Ivan Voras User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050921) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mathieu Prevot References: <20060602145855.GA1481@scienceclue.ath.cx> In-Reply-To: <20060602145855.GA1481@scienceclue.ath.cx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: is FreeBSD popularity decreasing ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 15:09:49 -0000 Mathieu Prevot wrote: > Hello, > > it seems that google searches about freebsd are decreasing slowly since months: > http://www.google.com/trends?q=freebsd%2C+ubuntu%2C+debian%2C+redhat&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all Fortunately, both Linux and Windows are also declining in popularity :) http://www.google.com/trends?q=linux%2C+windows&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 2 18:26:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5526D16A44D for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 18:26:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpetsmoker@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3E9F43D48 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 18:26:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from carpetsmoker@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l37so1155092nfc for ; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 11:26:24 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:date:to:subject:content-type:mime-version:references:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:in-reply-to:user-agent:from; b=RJPFbGwwzMNSTe9fhR1v3YNoENDa+R4mbIki7mdi2PQ3oJeniEX/FJTTVp6kbRv8fFZVTG8hvo9hSJiou3IF9CoTLOMlQQ6n0S9686lnLIoS8MionPM526DXeVPESx/sC4MXq4xS5odMoguMziblezhktffgDSGDTLVcXT/bKSA= Received: by 10.49.91.12 with SMTP id t12mr857869nfl; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 08:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carpetsmoker.ictwerkplaats.org ( [80.126.94.163]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id a24sm2494333nfc.2006.06.02.08.55.33; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 08:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 17:53:48 -0000 To: "Mathieu Prevot" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060602145855.GA1481@scienceclue.ath.cx> Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060602145855.GA1481@scienceclue.ath.cx> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.00 (FreeBSD) From: Martin Tournoy Cc: Subject: Re: is FreeBSD popularity decreasing ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 18:26:26 -0000 On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 14:58:55 -0000, Mathieu Prevot = wrote: > Hello, > > it seems that google searches about freebsd are decreasing slowly sinc= e = > months: > http://www.google.com/trends?q=3Dfreebsd%2C+ubuntu%2C+debian%2C+redhat= &ctab=3D0&geo=3Dall&date=3Dall > > Can this be related to FreeBSD quality (which increase?) or to FreeBSD= > popularity (which decrease?) ?? Any comments ? > > MP These results say nothing. What if someone searches for "BSD" instead of "FreeBSD"? Also, most people simply go to www.windows.com if they want windows = information, don't need a search engine for that, it could be that alot = of = people simply go to www.freebsd.org, or www.ubuntu.com... And linux comparisment sites are plentyfull, often including BSD. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 2 18:50:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46BEF16A425 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 18:50:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpetsmoker@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.191]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5814843D45 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 18:50:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from carpetsmoker@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l37so1160910nfc for ; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 11:50:26 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:date:to:subject:content-type:mime-version:references:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:in-reply-to:user-agent:from; b=JNHKecKIASpHRZSSNQ8G62keU5aLmZ6NcUtBqSqz+6MdiUvcVTQ5vFTBaEp1Ou1p/VhYZvklMpyfwPuTTkBWN3htr5rDV9cptIFD1edrOUrSSuSPCRL4UvQHzTciOgZ5BiroJr2qEYuIQ0vygJSeMX+y20nfnx+yivHgRV6aIpI= Received: by 10.48.255.7 with SMTP id c7mr847392nfi; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 08:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carpetsmoker.ictwerkplaats.org ( [80.126.94.163]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id l22sm2491194nfc.2006.06.02.08.48.53; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 08:48:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 17:47:08 -0000 To: "Mark Ovens" , "FreeBSD Chat" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> <2FAE5E5F-3BD1-44DD-8879-6CDC9A5C51A2@sepulcrum.org> <447F2C3B.3010709@freebsd.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <447F2C3B.3010709@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.00 (FreeBSD) From: Martin Tournoy Cc: Subject: Re: Record Uptimes X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 18:50:28 -0000 On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 18:04:43 -0000, Mark Ovens wrote= : > Liam J. Foy wrote: >> On 1 Jun 2006, at 18:40, Mark Ovens wrote: >> >>> Respectable showing from FreeBSD here >>> >>> http://en.uptime-project.net/page.php?page=3Dtoplist&content=3Dallho= sts >> More than showing me how stable the operating system is - it scares = me. >> > > Indeed. I've just registered and installed the s/w on my mail server a= nd = > I'm already in position 3514/11582 with just over 3 weeks uptime - sin= ce = > I did a major u/g from 4.9 -> 6.1 - let's see how far it gets. > > The longest it's been up for is ~220 days but that's because we have a= = > flaky mains supply round here (electric company more interested in the= ir = > shareholders than customers). Perhaps now it's time to get a UPS? > > Mark I love the smell of privatisation in the morning.... From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 2 20:06:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C4E16A5D7 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 20:06:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-unix@earthlink.net) Received: from pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.61]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E56F43D62 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 20:06:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bsd-unix@earthlink.net) Received: from fl-71-54-28-212.dhcp.sprint-hsd.net ([71.54.28.212] helo=kt.weeeble.com) by pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FmFub-00018s-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:06:25 -0400 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 16:07:07 -0400 From: Randy Pratt To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20060602160707.059b3c1c.bsd-unix@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <447F2C3B.3010709@freebsd.org> References: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> <2FAE5E5F-3BD1-44DD-8879-6CDC9A5C51A2@sepulcrum.org> <447F2C3B.3010709@freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.2.5 (GTK+ 2.8.18; i386-portbld-freebsd6.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Record Uptimes X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 20:06:29 -0000 On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 19:04:43 +0100 Mark Ovens wrote: > Liam J. Foy wrote: > > On 1 Jun 2006, at 18:40, Mark Ovens wrote: > > > >> Respectable showing from FreeBSD here > >> > >> http://en.uptime-project.net/page.php?page=toplist&content=allhosts > > > > More than showing me how stable the operating system is - it scares me. > > > > Indeed. I've just registered and installed the s/w on my mail server and > I'm already in position 3514/11582 with just over 3 weeks uptime - since > I did a major u/g from 4.9 -> 6.1 - let's see how far it gets. > > The longest it's been up for is ~220 days but that's because we have a > flaky mains supply round here (electric company more interested in their > shareholders than customers). Perhaps now it's time to get a UPS? That's flaky? I typically get uptimes of 22-30 *hours* from my mains supply without interruption. I have to keep the house clocks on my UPS here in Florida. I suppose the storms we get have a bearing on the quality of our electrical grid ;-) Randy From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 2 20:18:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F3616A42C for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 20:18:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail@ozzmosis.com) Received: from smtp.syd.people.net.au (smtp.syd.people.net.au [218.214.225.98]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1885943D49 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 20:18:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mail@ozzmosis.com) Received: (qmail 32303 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2006 20:18:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blizzard.dnsalias.org) (218.214.144.129) by smtp.syd.people.net.au with SMTP; 2 Jun 2006 20:18:49 -0000 Received: by blizzard.dnsalias.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 45C403AD; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:18:22 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:18:22 +1000 From: andrew clarke Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060602201822.GA51265@ozzmosis.com> References: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Subject: Re: Record Uptimes X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 20:18:27 -0000 On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 06:40:37PM +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: > Respectable showing from FreeBSD here > > http://en.uptime-project.net/page.php?page=toplist&content=allhosts As a comparison of operating systems this list is totally meaningless. The only thing the list demonstrates is some people's dedication to keeping their computers running without a reboot. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 2 20:20:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABF5716A454 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 20:20:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail@ozzmosis.com) Received: from smtp.syd.people.net.au (smtp.syd.people.net.au [218.214.225.98]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B55FA43D58 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 20:20:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mail@ozzmosis.com) Received: (qmail 32678 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2006 20:21:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blizzard.dnsalias.org) (218.214.144.129) by smtp.syd.people.net.au with SMTP; 2 Jun 2006 20:21:18 -0000 Received: by blizzard.dnsalias.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id C39AB434; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:20:51 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:20:51 +1000 From: andrew clarke To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060602202051.GB51265@ozzmosis.com> References: <20060602145855.GA1481@scienceclue.ath.cx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060602145855.GA1481@scienceclue.ath.cx> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Subject: Re: is FreeBSD popularity decreasing ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 20:20:57 -0000 On Fri, Jun 02, 2006 at 04:58:55PM +0200, Mathieu Prevot wrote: > it seems that google searches about freebsd are decreasing slowly since months: > http://www.google.com/trends?q=freebsd%2C+ubuntu%2C+debian%2C+redhat&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all Or perhaps less people are using Google to search for "freebsd". Mathieu, you put too much faith in Google Trends. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 2 20:27:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7C816A44D for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 20:27:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from geekout@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.225]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8988A43D45 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 20:27:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from geekout@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i20so598585wra for ; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 13:27:08 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Yb/9RXtYtcZ4FDQFsxp/acvdjPhcTIYK9BkmLDguuPNP7bEi5x4ynukuYeSlrSvpr/mc8GvdnZcPF8d5q3NvnUX/jzej5HLD8jbCOnNpcV/AoS8DdniMPNJb4/hUXWF9GlvCGQXM89NAd04TSUHLj1OJ6YtQjhdaeqceDv6LRPM= Received: by 10.54.132.11 with SMTP id f11mr2306932wrd; Fri, 02 Jun 2006 13:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.103.12 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 13:27:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e01203b0606021327g7ae6b3c6w6f667b12742f7a8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 10:27:07 -1000 From: "Tyler Gee" To: "andrew clarke" In-Reply-To: <20060602202051.GB51265@ozzmosis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060602145855.GA1481@scienceclue.ath.cx> <20060602202051.GB51265@ozzmosis.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: is FreeBSD popularity decreasing ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 20:27:12 -0000 On 6/2/06, andrew clarke wrote: > On Fri, Jun 02, 2006 at 04:58:55PM +0200, Mathieu Prevot wrote: > > > it seems that google searches about freebsd are decreasing slowly since months: > > http://www.google.com/trends?q=freebsd%2C+ubuntu%2C+debian%2C+redhat&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all > > Or perhaps less people are using Google to search for "freebsd". > It also seems like the "peak" shown here was right around FreeBSD 5.0, which obviously would have been searched for a lot more as people did upgrades and stories were generated and all that. Notice the peaks for Debian are every 6 months, right around upgrade time. -- ~Tyler From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 2 20:37:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29EA416A68F for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 20:37:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ss2@arcor.de) Received: from mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (mail-in-06.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59E0143D46 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 20:37:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ss2@arcor.de) Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.13]) by mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30897151347; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 22:37:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (mail-in-01.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.41]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FD6ACC198; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 22:37:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dslb-084-057-036-158.pools.arcor-ip.net (dslb-084-057-036-158.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.57.36.158]) (Authenticated sender: thescot@arcor.de) by mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C808BE449C; Fri, 2 Jun 2006 22:37:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Simon Streit To: andrew clarke In-Reply-To: <20060602202051.GB51265@ozzmosis.com> References: <20060602145855.GA1481@scienceclue.ath.cx> <20060602202051.GB51265@ozzmosis.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-VmWGlI2xckoh7FDhpK5c" Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 22:37:28 +0200 Message-Id: <1149280648.5196.8.camel@nova> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Cc: ss2@arcor.de, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: is FreeBSD popularity decreasing ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 20:37:38 -0000 --=-VmWGlI2xckoh7FDhpK5c Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, > Or perhaps less people are using Google to search for "freebsd". I agree with you, because I'm quite new to FreeBSD and I hardly never need Google for any Information when searching. Since I think that the FreeBSD Site is the best designed homepage for any resource of information for this distribution on comparing other Distribution sites, why should I use Google when I even know that I will land on the Site again? Regards, Simon --=-VmWGlI2xckoh7FDhpK5c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBEgKGIYKl9/HfgSCsRAkQQAJ9b+2t61PchTANxtcS/u7MNaA5SbwCfc+ga W+MsYUJtBzA+oyKK5hulyTw= =zSNQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-VmWGlI2xckoh7FDhpK5c-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 3 04:50:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91CC916A41F for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 04:50:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kruptos@mlinux.org) Received: from ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com [65.32.5.132]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2406E43D49 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 04:50:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kruptos@mlinux.org) Received: from fnord.quux.edu (207.40.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com [65.33.40.207]) by ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k534o2Rx003992 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 00:50:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Brunelle To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 00:50:01 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> <447F2C3B.3010709@freebsd.org> <20060602160707.059b3c1c.bsd-unix@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <20060602160707.059b3c1c.bsd-unix@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200606030050.01643.kruptos@mlinux.org> X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Subject: Re: Record Uptimes X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 04:50:04 -0000 > That's flaky? > > I typically get uptimes of 22-30 *hours* from my mains supply > without interruption. I have to keep the house clocks on my UPS > here in Florida. > > I suppose the storms we get have a bearing on the quality of our > electrical grid ;-) Oh you have to love that Florida weather. And just when you think you've got the random power-outages beat with several strategic UPSes... the power is out for 10-20 days thanks to the latest tropical storm. Well, at least that's a rare one... but the power does drive me nuts. I used to joke that a light breeze would kill the power at the place where I worked. -Kevin From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 3 07:25:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D2D016A4FB for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 07:25:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thierry@pompo.net) Received: from graf.pompo.net (graf.pompo.net [81.56.186.139]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 453FC43D68 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 07:25:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from thierry@pompo.net) Received: by graf.pompo.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E8A671145B; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 09:25:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 09:25:19 +0200 From: Thierry Thomas To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060603072519.GE69985@graf.pompo.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> <447F2C3B.3010709@freebsd.org> <20060602160707.059b3c1c.bsd-unix@earthlink.net> <200606030050.01643.kruptos@mlinux.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <200606030050.01643.kruptos@mlinux.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.1-STABLE i386 Organization: Kabbale Eros X-Face: (hRbQnK~Pt7$ct`!fupO(`y_WL4^-Iwn4@ly-.,[4xC4xc; y=\ipKMNm<1J>lv@PP~7Z<.t KjAnXLs: X-PGP: 0xC71405A2 Subject: Re: Record Uptimes X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 07:25:47 -0000 Le Sam 3 jui 06 à 6:50:01 +0200, Kevin Brunelle écrivait : > Well, at least that's a rare one... but the power does drive me nuts. It should drive you to ports/sysutils/nut! -- Th. Thomas. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 3 11:30:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99FB616A41F for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:30:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail@ozzmosis.com) Received: from smtp.syd.people.net.au (smtp.syd.people.net.au [218.214.225.98]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CE4A343D48 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:30:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mail@ozzmosis.com) Received: (qmail 6112 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2006 11:31:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blizzard.dnsalias.org) (218.214.144.129) by smtp.syd.people.net.au with SMTP; 3 Jun 2006 11:31:00 -0000 Received: by blizzard.dnsalias.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 501D14BD; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 21:30:40 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 21:30:40 +1000 From: andrew clarke To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060603113040.GA64024@ozzmosis.com> References: <20060602145855.GA1481@scienceclue.ath.cx> <20060602202051.GB51265@ozzmosis.com> <1149280648.5196.8.camel@nova> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1149280648.5196.8.camel@nova> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Subject: Re: is FreeBSD popularity decreasing ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 11:30:47 -0000 On Fri, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:37:28PM +0200, Simon Streit wrote: > > Or perhaps less people are using Google to search for "freebsd". > > I agree with you, because I'm quite new to FreeBSD and I hardly never > need Google for any Information when searching. I suspect some truly new people to FreeBSD might also search for "free bsd" (sans quotes). Although that may not really matter. But I don't think Google Trends is a useful measurement for anything. It would not surprise me if FreeBSD's popularity has decreased in favour of Mac OS X, for example. But I don't know how you'd measure that. I suppose you would just need to ask individual people. Not rely on data mining. > Since I think that the > FreeBSD Site is the best designed homepage for any resource of > information for this distribution on comparing other Distribution sites, > why should I use Google when I even know that I will land on the Site > again? True. Or if you've installed it, /usr/share/doc/handbook/, etc. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 3 13:42:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42D7616A474 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 13:42:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from slackwarewolf@comcast.net) Received: from rwcrmhc15.comcast.net (rwcrmhc15.comcast.net [204.127.192.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D721643D48 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 13:42:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from slackwarewolf@comcast.net) Received: from hydrocodone.org (c-69-246-87-201.hsd1.mi.comcast.net[69.246.87.201]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc15) with ESMTP id <20060603133830m15000mcnke>; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 13:38:31 +0000 Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 09:38:10 -0400 From: Allen To: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?ISO-8859-1?B?U234cmdyYXY=?=) Message-ID: <20060603093810.601366af@hydrocodone.org> In-Reply-To: <867j3z3om6.fsf@xps.des.no> References: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> <200606011357.11990.aren.tyr@gawab.com> <447F0062.8060302@daleco.biz> <20060601144317.47402556@hydrocodone.org> <867j3z3om6.fsf@xps.des.no> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 1.0.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-suse-linux) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Unix Haters Handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 13:42:37 -0000 On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 11:15:13 +0200 des@des.no (Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav) wrote: > Allen writes: > > Technically FreeBSD has more right than SCO UNIX to be called UNIX >=20 > No. Unlike FreeBSD, SCO UnixWare is a direct descendent of the > original AT&T Unix. So is / was Free BSD. That's why AT&T sued.=20 > > Legally who cares laws and computer science have really not ever > > mixed. >=20 > That is a scary attitude which no-one in the open source community can > afford to entertain. So is the seriousness of yours. Take a joke or a pill ... > > I've seen the web site and read it before. to me it looked like a > > windows guy who was paid to write down everything he was thinking > > about Windows and change the names. >=20 > Actually, the main author of the UNIX Hater's Handbook is a well- > regarded Unix and computer security expert who has written numerous > books on the subject. I know. > DES > --=20 > Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 3 13:43:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70FFC16A4BF for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 13:43:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from slackwarewolf@comcast.net) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.154]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08E7043D5A for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 13:43:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from slackwarewolf@comcast.net) Received: from hydrocodone.org (c-69-246-87-201.hsd1.mi.comcast.net[69.246.87.201]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with ESMTP id <20060603134347m14007plg0e>; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 13:43:48 +0000 Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 09:43:27 -0400 From: Allen To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060603094327.1d4886eb@hydrocodone.org> In-Reply-To: <200606030050.01643.kruptos@mlinux.org> References: <447F2695.40603@freebsd.org> <447F2C3B.3010709@freebsd.org> <20060602160707.059b3c1c.bsd-unix@earthlink.net> <200606030050.01643.kruptos@mlinux.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 1.0.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-suse-linux) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Record Uptimes X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 13:43:56 -0000 On Sat, 3 Jun 2006 00:50:01 -0400 Kevin Brunelle wrote: > > That's flaky? > > > > I typically get uptimes of 22-30 *hours* from my mains supply > > without interruption. I have to keep the house clocks on my UPS > > here in Florida. > > > > I suppose the storms we get have a bearing on the quality of our > > electrical grid ;-) > > Oh you have to love that Florida weather. And just when you think you've got > the random power-outages beat with several strategic UPSes... the power is > out for 10-20 days thanks to the latest tropical storm. You could all move to Michigan. We dont' get tropical weather here.... Actually coming here form Florida, which some friends of mine have, you'd need some warm clothing ;) I still remember friens of mine coming up here saying "Man ti's freezing outside" and this was in the fall. Winter came and they almost cried lol. Anyway did no one think of bringing this up?: http://uptime.netcraft.net/up/today/top.avg.html Almost every box here is BSD, Free BSD, or Linux. And if you know a good one with major uptime, you can check for it and eventually it gets added. > Well, at least that's a rare one... but the power does drive me nuts. I used > to joke that a light breeze would kill the power at the place where I worked. I hate Power outages with a passion. My UPS is dead :( From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 3 22:36:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EB6416A4FD for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 22:36:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.203]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6DED43D67 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 22:36:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id m7so763054nzf for ; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:36:51 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=TDw+Oi90n7iQQNQR6NBT9qnfo0dwNWlycytgpoC4S4zFlzHNSwTceiRrEGm350KzH21eTqPJG/gdqAO7rS03q32piwcOWgtCY9RfU5OCqryYPC3M0Mt5xt11J4dsxUmJ3EamtDRPh9aPecSwKZ7PBRslTB9fl6B0/0OwJkRb93Q= Received: by 10.37.20.73 with SMTP id x73mr4114078nzi; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:36:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.104.17 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:36:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 17:36:51 -0500 From: "Nikolas Britton" To: "Mathieu Prevot" In-Reply-To: <20060602145855.GA1481@scienceclue.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060602145855.GA1481@scienceclue.ath.cx> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: is FreeBSD popularity decreasing ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 22:36:56 -0000 On 6/2/06, Mathieu Prevot wrote: > Hello, > > it seems that google searches about freebsd are decreasing slowly since months: > http://www.google.com/trends?q=freebsd%2C+ubuntu%2C+debian%2C+redhat&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all Does this count google group searches? For example: http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&q=group%3A*.freebsd.*+popularity&qt_s=Search I never "google" for FreeBSD but you can always find me searching through the newsgroups and mailing lists with google groups. -- BSD Podcasts @: http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/ http://freebsdforall.blogspot.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 3 22:49:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7202616A49E for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 22:49:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.207]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4F9343D66 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 22:48:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id m7so764449nzf for ; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:48:55 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=loGIoawquKF0Z52maZaaDqGOJnxj/k6G6MLy+pkvoC2q3TrQFsBSnVz2VqZflyxGLrw+O8vrvUZO7hSQxB5C3fX/bY2z1HqjTwwYfn7gzuIblKuu7kp+47gNYcXkqyy4b2u004rEh9kqUZ7aLLq6Fvvq/oVVBkc3PdqcU7Y4l4k= Received: by 10.36.19.13 with SMTP id 13mr4117146nzs; Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.104.17 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 17:48:55 -0500 From: "Nikolas Britton" To: "Ivan Voras" In-Reply-To: <44805471.1060009@fer.hr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060602145855.GA1481@scienceclue.ath.cx> <44805471.1060009@fer.hr> Cc: Mathieu Prevot , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: is FreeBSD popularity decreasing ?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 22:49:01 -0000 On 6/2/06, Ivan Voras wrote: > Mathieu Prevot wrote: > > Hello, > > > > it seems that google searches about freebsd are decreasing slowly since months: > > http://www.google.com/trends?q=freebsd%2C+ubuntu%2C+debian%2C+redhat&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all > > Fortunately, both Linux and Windows are also declining in popularity :) > http://www.google.com/trends?q=linux%2C+windows&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all > Maybe it's a declining in the popularity of google? Less people using google to search should equal a decline in search volume, look at this: http://www.google.com/trends?q=msn%2C+yahoo&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all -- BSD Podcasts @: http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/ http://freebsdforall.blogspot.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 3 23:55:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E57616A496 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 23:55:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from slackwarewolf@comcast.net) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.192.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD19243D45 for ; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 23:55:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from slackwarewolf@comcast.net) Received: from hydrocodone.org (c-69-246-87-201.hsd1.mi.comcast.net[69.246.87.201]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <20060603235557m1300gabvke>; Sat, 3 Jun 2006 23:55:57 +0000 Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 19:55:31 -0400 From: Allen To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060603195531.3c634eca@hydrocodone.org> In-Reply-To: <447F4E7C.8050404@bitfreak.org> References: <447E9540.2020003@io.dk> <200606011357.11990.aren.tyr@gawab.com> <447F0062.8060302@daleco.biz> <447F4E7C.8050404@bitfreak.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 1.0.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-suse-linux) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: The Unix Haters Handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 23:55:59 -0000 On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:30:52 -0700 Darren Pilgrim wrote: > Kevin Kinsey wrote: > > 2. Is 'UNIX-hating' an acquired taste/skill/disability? > > Is it possible to be stupid/ignorant/naive enough to not > > hate UNIX? > > Unix is a deep, complex art. The kind of people who truly enjoy such > artwork are either gifted with perverse perception and talent or idiot > savants. this is somewhat long... But some of you may have already read it, and probably liked it: [ From http://www.performancecomputing.com...s/9809of1.shtml ] The Elements Of Style: UNIX As Literature If there's nothing different about UNIX people, how come so many were liberal-arts majors? It's the love of words that makes UNIX stand out. Thomas Scoville In the late 1980s, I worked in the advanced R&D arm of the Silicon Valley's regional telephone company. My lab was populated mostly by Ph.D.s and gifted hackers. It was, as you might expect, an all-UNIX shop. The manager of the group was an exception: no advanced degree, no technical credentials. He seemed pointedly self-conscious about it. We suspected he felt (wrongly, we agreed) underconfident of his education and intellect. One day, a story circulated through the group that confirmed our suspicions: the manager had confided he was indeed intimidated by the intelligence of the group, and was taking steps to remedy the situation. His prescription, though, was unanticipated: "I need to become more of an intellectual," he said. "I'm going to learn UNIX." Needless to say, we made more than a little fun out of this. I mean, come on: as if UNIX could transform him into a mastermind, like the supplicating scarecrow in "The Wizard of Oz." I uncharitably imagined a variation on the old Charles Atlas ads: "Those senior engineers will never kick sand in my face again." But part of me was sympathetic: "The boss isn't entirely wrong, is he? There is something different about UNIX people, isn't there?" In the years since, I've come to recognize what my old manager was getting at. I still think he was misguided, but in retrospect I think his belief was more accurate than I recognized at the time. To be sure, the UNIX community has its own measure of technical parochialism and nerdy tunnel vision, but in my experience there seemed to be a suspicious overrepresentation of polyglots and liberal-arts folks in UNIX shops. I'll admit my evidence is sketchy and anecdotal. For instance, while banging out a line of shell, with a fellow engineer peering over my shoulder, I might make an intentionally obscure literary reference: if test -z `ps -fe | grep whom` then echo ^G fi # Let's see for whom the bell tolls. UNIX colleagues were much more likely to recognize and play in a way I'd never expect in the VMS shops, IBM's big-iron data centers, or DOS ghettos on my consulting beat. Being a liberal-arts type myself (though I cleverly concealed this in my resume), I wondered why this should be true. My original explanation--UNIX's historical association with university computing environments, like UC Berkeley's--didn't hold up over the years; many of the UNIX-philiacs I met came from schools with small or absent computer science departments. There had to be a connection, but I had no plausible hypothesis. It wasn't until I started regularly asking UNIX refuseniks what they didn't like about UNIX that better explanations emerged. Some of the prevailing dislike had a distinctly populist flavor--people caught a whiff of snobbery about UNIX and regarded it with the same proletarian resentment usually reserved for highbrow institutions like opera or ballet. They had a point: until recently, UNIX was the lingua franca of computing's upper crust. The more harried, practical, and underprivileged of the computing world seemed to object to this aura of privilege. UNIX adepts historically have been a coddled bunch, and tend to be proud of their hard-won knowledge. But these class differences are fading fast in modern computing environments. Now UNIX engineers are more common, and low- or no-cost UNIX variations run on inexpensive hardware. Certainly UNIX folks aren't as coddled in the age of NT. There was a standard litany of more specific criticisms: UNIX is difficult and time-consuming to learn. There are too many things to remember. It's arcane and needlessly complex. But the most recurrent complaint was that it was too text-oriented. People really hated the command line, with all the utilities, obscure flags, and arguments they had to memorize. They hated all the typing. One mislaid character and you had to start over. Interestingly, this complaint came most often from users of the GUI-laden Macintosh or Windows platforms. People who had slaved away on DOS batch scripts or spent their days on character-based terminals of multiuser non-UNIX machines were less likely to express the same grievance. Though I understood how people might be put off by having to remember such willfully obscure utility names like cat and grep, I continued to be puzzled at why they resented typing. Then I realized I could connect the complaint with the scores of "intellectual elite" (as my manager described them) in UNIX shops. The common thread was wordsmithing; a suspiciously high proportion of my UNIX colleagues had already developed, in some prior career, a comfort and fluency with text and printed words. They were adept readers and writers, and UNIX played handily to those strengths. UNIX was, in some sense, literature to them. Suddenly the overrepresentation of polyglots, liberal-arts types, and voracious readers in the UNIX community didn't seem so mysterious, and pointed the way to a deeper issue: in a world increasingly dominated by image culture (TV, movies, .jpg files), UNIX remains rooted in the culture of the word. UNIX programmers express themselves in a rich vocabulary of system utilities and command-line arguments, along with a flexible, varied grammar and syntax. For UNIX enthusiasts, the language becomes second nature. Once, I overheard a conversation in a Palo Alto restaurant: "there used to be a shrimp-and-pasta plate here under ten bucks. Let me see...cat menu | grep shrimp | test -lt $10..." though not syntactically correct (and less-than-scintillating conversation), a diner from an NT shop probably couldn't have expressed himself as casually. With UNIX, text--on the command line, STDIN, STDOUT, STDERR--is the primary interface mechanism: UNIX system utilities are a sort of Lego construction set for word-smiths. Pipes and filters connect one utility to the next, text flows invisibly between. Working with a shell, awk/lex derivatives, or the utility set is literally a word dance. Working on the command line, hands poised over the keys uninterrupted by frequent reaches for the mouse, is a posture familiar to wordsmiths (especially the really old guys who once worked on teletypes or electric typewriters). It makes some of the same demands as writing an essay. Both require composition skills. Both demand a thorough knowledge of grammar and syntax. Both reward mastery with powerful, compact expression. At the risk of alienating both techies and writers alike, I also suggest that UNIX offers something else prized in literature: a coherence, a consistent style, something writers call a voice. It doesn't take much exposure to UNIX before you realize that the UNIX core was the creation of a very few well-synchronized minds. I've never met Dennis Ritchie, Brian Kernighan, or Ken Thompson, but after a decade and a half on UNIX I imagine I might greet them as friends, knowing something of the shape of their thoughts. You might argue that UNIX is as visually oriented as other OSs. Modern UNIX offerings certainly have their fair share of GUI-based OS interfaces. In practice though, the UNIX core subverts them; they end up serving UNIX's tradition of word culture, not replacing it. Take a look at the console of most UNIX workstations: half the windows you see are terminal emulators with command-line prompts or vi jobs running within. Nowhere is this word/image culture tension better represented than in the contrast between UNIX and NT. When the much-vaunted UNIX-killer arrived a few years ago, backed by the full faith and credit of the Redmond juggernaut, I approached it with an open mind. But NT left me cold. There was something deeply unsatisfying about it. I had that ineffable feeling (apologies to Gertrude Stein) there was no there there. Granted, I already knew the major themes of system and network administration from my UNIX days, and I will admit that registry hacking did vex me for a few days, but after my short scramble up the learning curve I looked back at UNIX with the feeling I'd been demoted from a backhoe to a leaf-blower. NT just didn't offer room to move. The one-size-fits-all, point-and-click, we've-already-anticipated-all-your-needs world of NT had me yearning for those obscure command-line flags and man -k. I wanted to craft my own solutions from my own toolbox, not have my ideas slammed into the visually homogenous, prepackaged, Soviet world of Microsoft Foundation Classes. NT was definitely much too close to image culture for my comfort: endless point-and-click graphical dialog boxes, hunting around the screen with the mouse, pop-up after pop-up demanding my attention. The experience was almost exclusively reactive. Every task demanded a GUI-based utility front-end loaded with insidious assumptions about how to visualize (and thus conceptualize) the operation. I couldn't think "outside the box" because everything literally was a box. There was no opportunity for ad hoc consideration of how a task might alternately be performed. I will admit NT made my life easier in some respects. I found myself doing less remembering (names of utilities, command arguments, syntax) and more recognizing (solution components associated with check boxes, radio buttons, and pull-downs). I spent much less time typing. Certainly my right hand spent much more time herding the mouse around the desktop. But after a few months I started to get a tired, desolate feeling, akin to the fatigue I feel after too much channel surfing or videogaming: too much time spent reacting, not enough spent in active analysis and expression. In short, image-culture burnout. The one ray of light that illuminated my tenure in NT environments was the burgeoning popularity of Perl. Perl seemed to find its way into NT shops as a CGI solution for Web development, but people quickly recognized its power and adopted it for uses far outside the scope of Web development: system administration, revision control, remote file distribution, network administration. The irony is that Perl itself is a subset of UNIX features condensed into a quick-and-dirty scripting language. In a literary light, if UNIX is the Great Novel, Perl is the Cliffs Notes. Mastery of UNIX, like mastery of language, offers real freedom. The price of freedom is always dear, but there's no substitute. Personally, I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, pop-up-happy dungeon like NT. I'm hoping that as IT folks become more seasoned and less impressed by superficial convenience at the expense of real freedom, they will yearn for the kind of freedom and responsibility UNIX allows. When they do, UNIX will be there to fill the need. Thomas Scoville has been wrestling with UNIX since 1983. He currently works at Expert Support Inc. in Mountain View, CA.