From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 17 08:35:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D8316A416; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:35:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E87443D49; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:35:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (ncvkbc@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k9H8ZjfP061605; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:35:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id k9H8ZjKH061604; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:35:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:35:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200610170835.k9H8ZjKH061604@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-stable User-Agent: tin/1.8.2-20060425 ("Shillay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.11-STABLE (i386)) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:35:51 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:35:53 -0000 Just an interesting thing to note ... Danial Thom is accusing the FreeBSD team of "lying" and being "dishonest". He's saying that FreeBSD is going to die and DragonFly BSD will take its place in one year, and that Matt Dillon had more IQ than the whole FreeBSD team together. Not very long ago, the very same person said exactly the opposite. He wrote that DragonFly was going in the wrong direction, that the project would die and never would catch up with FreeBSD, and he insulted Matt Dillon and other developers up to the point he had to be banned from the mailing list in order to get the S/N ration back to a usable level. (I'm not wasting my time with quotes; you can easily find all of that with Google if you care.) Now look who is lying and being dishonest. Best regards Oliver PS: Redirected to -chat. PPS: I've switched several machines from 4.x to RELENG_6, skipping 5.x alltogether, and so far I'm very pleased with the new features and the performance (except for the NFS performance which is not as good as it used to be, but I assume it's already being worked on, since NFS is such an important thing). -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing Dienstleistungen mit Schwerpunkt FreeBSD: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. "I started using PostgreSQL around a month ago, and the feeling is similar to the switch from Linux to FreeBSD in '96 -- 'wow!'." -- Oddbjorn Steffensen From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 18 19:00:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 779A516A40F for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2006 19:00:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mmendez@energyhq.be) Received: from spitfire.energyhq.be (158.Red-88-0-176.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net [88.0.176.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA57143D45 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2006 19:00:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mmendez@energyhq.be) Received: from scienide.energyhq.be (scienide.energyhq.be [192.168.2.2]) by spitfire.energyhq.be (Postfix) with SMTP id 2ACF8100E0 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:00:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 20:56:47 +0200 From: Miguel Mendez To: chat@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20061018205647.b8578efc.mmendez@energyhq.be> Organization: EnergyHQ X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.2.7 (GTK+ 2.8.20; amd64-portbld-freebsd6.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Propietary NVIDIA driver pwn3d X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 19:00:59 -0000 Told you so :) http://www.rapid7.com/advisories/R7-0025.jsp Hopefully this kind of stuff will make some people reconsider their opinion about proprietary kernel drivers. Cheers, -- Miguel Mendez http://www.energyhq.be PGP Key: 0xDC8514F1 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 19 09:41:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A65016A40F for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:41:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25DE843D96 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:41:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26F5A208C; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:41:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.4 (2006-07-25) on tim.des.no Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C6D2082; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:41:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8EA03B85E; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:41:42 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Miguel Mendez References: <20061018205647.b8578efc.mmendez@energyhq.be> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:41:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20061018205647.b8578efc.mmendez@energyhq.be> (Miguel Mendez's message of "Wed, 18 Oct 2006 20:56:47 +0200") Message-ID: <86slhk7icp.fsf@dwp.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110004 (No Gnus v0.4) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Propietary NVIDIA driver pwn3d X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:41:55 -0000 Miguel Mendez writes: > Told you so :) > > http://www.rapid7.com/advisories/R7-0025.jsp > > Hopefully this kind of stuff will make some people reconsider their > opinion about proprietary kernel drivers. Oh yes, because open source kernel drivers are *never* vulnerable to local privilege escalation attacks. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 19 10:16:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA8A16A403 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:16:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd5mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE61E43D5A for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:16:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd3mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr6so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.21]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J7D00KIHOJD01C0@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 04:16:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml5so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.149]) by pd3mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J7D00EP7OJC2DL0@pd3mr6so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 04:16:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soralx.cydem.org ([24.87.27.3]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J7D002ZKOJC6QH0@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 04:16:24 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 03:16:22 -0700 From: soralx@cydem.org In-reply-to: <86slhk7icp.fsf@dwp.des.no> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <200610190316.23179.soralx@cydem.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline References: <20061018205647.b8578efc.mmendez@energyhq.be> <86slhk7icp.fsf@dwp.des.no> User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 Subject: Re: Propietary NVIDIA driver pwn3d X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:16:25 -0000 > Miguel Mendez writes: > > Told you so :) > > > > http://www.rapid7.com/advisories/R7-0025.jsp > > > > Hopefully this kind of stuff will make some people reconsider their > > opinion about proprietary kernel drivers. > > Oh yes, because open source kernel drivers are *never* vulnerable to > local privilege escalation attacks. al least those can be promptly fixed... > DES [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 19 18:20:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2456F16A47C for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:20:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D7943D70 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:20:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 432F31A4D86; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4B4DD51D02; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:20:11 -0400 From: Kris Kennaway To: soralx@cydem.org Message-ID: <20061019182010.GA33997@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20061018205647.b8578efc.mmendez@energyhq.be> <86slhk7icp.fsf@dwp.des.no> <200610190316.23179.soralx@cydem.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200610190316.23179.soralx@cydem.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Propietary NVIDIA driver pwn3d X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:20:17 -0000 --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 19, 2006 at 03:16:22AM -0700, soralx@cydem.org wrote: >=20 > > Miguel Mendez writes: > > > Told you so :) > > > > > > http://www.rapid7.com/advisories/R7-0025.jsp > > > > > > Hopefully this kind of stuff will make some people reconsider their > > > opinion about proprietary kernel drivers. > >=20 > > Oh yes, because open source kernel drivers are *never* vulnerable to > > local privilege escalation attacks. >=20 > al least those can be promptly fixed... Wasn't this one promptly fixed too? Kris --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFN8HaWry0BWjoQKURAkzzAJ9We6srlJcXzxemeAGztfIhAoJRIwCcD4FH THWJfmZwN47twopYtAFLQv4= =NoOR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 19 19:08:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF10D16A412 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:08:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thierry@pompo.net) Received: from graf.pompo.net (graf.pompo.net [81.56.186.139]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DC9A43E1B for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:06:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from thierry@pompo.net) Received: by graf.pompo.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id C49BA11457; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:04:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:04:36 +0200 From: Thierry Thomas To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20061019190436.GE19415@graf.pompo.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20061018205647.b8578efc.mmendez@energyhq.be> <86slhk7icp.fsf@dwp.des.no> <200610190316.23179.soralx@cydem.org> <20061019182010.GA33997@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NtwzykIc2mflq5ck" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20061019182010.GA33997@xor.obsecurity.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.2-PRERELEASE i386 Organization: Kabbale Eros X-Face: (hRbQnK~Pt7$ct`!fupO(`y_WL4^-Iwn4@ly-.,[4xC4xc; y=\ipKMNm<1J>lv@PP~7Z<.t KjAnXLs: X-PGP: 0xC71405A2 Subject: Re: Propietary NVIDIA driver pwn3d X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:08:18 -0000 --NtwzykIc2mflq5ck Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le Jeu 19 oct 06 =E0 20:20:11 +0200, Kris Kennaway =E9crivait=A0: > > al least those can be promptly fixed... >=20 > Wasn't this one promptly fixed too? This bug was reported on 2004-12-21: . --=20 Th. Thomas. --NtwzykIc2mflq5ck Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFN8xEc95pjMcUBaIRAghlAKCB+uhpxkzVMhFelVELZ3/dcNLDSQCg4H9b +rRA9sAY2vS5dCnV/R7z9yU= =G+r6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NtwzykIc2mflq5ck-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 19 19:14:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBCDC16A49E for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:14:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cleyon@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A2B443D90 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:14:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cleyon@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id t4so714596wxc for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:14:19 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=QJEf+DTjbx8CqcgcJrl5WLjxvSnFvl0Xku1flKJEv7yJMxjsrf4/ruRt7g5hgmVwXE9jRnNzb0AuAGPsbDctXKlXvwARw0ocHJT5BNmq196mIN8hKn5D73MsGqniIlKZq8IpbWF9KASseqqkWGBgM743NzyNkrkZ4Jc2nR+23QQ= Received: by 10.90.113.20 with SMTP id l20mr480114agc; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.54.1 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5ea706d0610191214s6dabfa53q187976a144028eca@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:14:19 -0400 From: "Chris Leyon" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20061019182010.GA33997@xor.obsecurity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20061018205647.b8578efc.mmendez@energyhq.be> <86slhk7icp.fsf@dwp.des.no> <200610190316.23179.soralx@cydem.org> <20061019182010.GA33997@xor.obsecurity.org> Subject: Re: Propietary NVIDIA driver pwn3d X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:14:51 -0000 On 10/19/06, Kris Kennaway wrote: > Wasn't this one promptly fixed too? I read on this week's LWN.net security page: "This problem may have been known since 2004; NVidia acknowledged it back in July, but it remains unfixed. It has been reported that the beta versions of the drivers do contain the fix." Even giving NVidia the benefit of the doubt, they've known about it for at least three months. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 19 19:14:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20A8116A4E7 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:14:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6209043D8B for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:14:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42A961A3C1A for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6FE445160E; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:14:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:14:29 -0400 From: Kris Kennaway To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20061019191429.GA34611@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20061018205647.b8578efc.mmendez@energyhq.be> <86slhk7icp.fsf@dwp.des.no> <200610190316.23179.soralx@cydem.org> <20061019182010.GA33997@xor.obsecurity.org> <20061019190436.GE19415@graf.pompo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20061019190436.GE19415@graf.pompo.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Subject: Re: Propietary NVIDIA driver pwn3d X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:14:53 -0000 --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 19, 2006 at 09:04:36PM +0200, Thierry Thomas wrote: > Le Jeu 19 oct 06 ? 20:20:11 +0200, Kris Kennaway > ?crivait?: > > > al least those can be promptly fixed... > >=20 > > Wasn't this one promptly fixed too? >=20 > This bug was reported on 2004-12-21: >=20 > . Well...sort of. The *symptoms* are reported there but no-one identified it as a nvidia driver bug. In fact there's no mention of nvidia at all until September 2006. Kris --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFN86VWry0BWjoQKURAinYAKCBDc/6OYzxTKwOYy2SZwCsG21IYACeKYg1 4WxoOfbEBMbMQ1SqGrf4QiY= =v6Mi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 19 19:35:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DC2A16A412; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:35:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tataz@tataz.chchile.org) Received: from smtp3-g19.free.fr (smtp3-g19.free.fr [212.27.42.29]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6551F43D6D; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:35:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tataz@tataz.chchile.org) Received: from tatooine.tataz.chchile.org (tataz.chchile.org [82.233.239.98]) by smtp3-g19.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 341D548141; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:35:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from obiwan.tataz.chchile.org (unknown [192.168.1.25]) by tatooine.tataz.chchile.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADA969E6C2; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:35:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obiwan.tataz.chchile.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 93CB6405B; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:35:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:35:56 +0200 From: Jeremie Le Hen To: John Baldwin Message-ID: <20061019193556.GL53114@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> References: <200610131751.k9DHph6C076014@repoman.freebsd.org> <200610131615.09414.jhb@freebsd.org> <45301100.9040908@FreeBSD.org> <200610161335.11850.jhb@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200610161335.11850.jhb@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Cc: jeremie@le-hen.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD branches stats (was: Re: cvs commit: src/share/zoneinfo africa antarctica asia australasia backward etcetera europe factory leapseconds northamerica southamerica systemv yearistype.sh zone.tab) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:35:15 -0000 Hi, On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 01:35:11PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote on cvs-src@ > Woo, great! Thanks for syncing 4.x up. A lot of people still use 4.x > (significantly more than 5.x I'm sure) so the updates are appreciated. BTW, is it possible to gather statistics from the cvsup and cvs servers to get some figures about the use of FreeBSD branches ? Regards, -- Jeremie Le Hen < jeremie at le-hen dot org >< ttz at chchile dot org > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 19 19:41:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B55E16A416; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:41:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1112943D81; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:40:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 216651A3C1A; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A44CE51D0C; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:40:46 -0400 From: Kris Kennaway To: Jeremie Le Hen Message-ID: <20061019194046.GA35135@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <200610131751.k9DHph6C076014@repoman.freebsd.org> <200610131615.09414.jhb@freebsd.org> <45301100.9040908@FreeBSD.org> <200610161335.11850.jhb@freebsd.org> <20061019193556.GL53114@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20061019193556.GL53114@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD branches stats (was: Re: cvs commit: src/share/zoneinfo africa antarctica asia australasia backward etcetera europe factory leapseconds northamerica southamerica systemv yearistype.sh zone.tab) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:41:14 -0000 --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 19, 2006 at 09:35:56PM +0200, Jeremie Le Hen wrote: > Hi, >=20 > On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 01:35:11PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote on cvs-src@ > > Woo, great! Thanks for syncing 4.x up. A lot of people still use 4.x= =20 > > (significantly more than 5.x I'm sure) so the updates are appreciated. >=20 > BTW, is it possible to gather statistics from the cvsup and cvs servers > to get some figures about the use of FreeBSD branches ? Wouldn't be very meaningful, since almost by definition anyone still using 4.x isn't aggressively tracking RELENG_4 (since a) there is almost nothing to track, and b) such people will mostly have already followed along to 6.x). Kris --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFN9S9Wry0BWjoQKURAkFaAJ449meheBGP2nY7eCvIrf+mnFmvwgCgjdrH 0xORso0GzJx6FoAUZG8ALKw= =sBmj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 20 02:16:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 414A116A494 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:16:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd2mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F0243D5A for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:16:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd2mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr5so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.8]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J7E006XMWWJ6OA0@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:14:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml3so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.147]) by pd2mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J7E00BHTWWJNF01@pd2mr5so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:14:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soralx.cydem.org ([24.87.27.3]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J7E00B9OWWIWAE0@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:14:43 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:14:41 -0700 From: soralx@cydem.org In-reply-to: <20061019191429.GA34611@xor.obsecurity.org> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <200610191914.41286.soralx@cydem.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline References: <20061018205647.b8578efc.mmendez@energyhq.be> <20061019190436.GE19415@graf.pompo.net> <20061019191429.GA34611@xor.obsecurity.org> User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 Subject: Re: Propietary NVIDIA driver pwn3d X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:16:07 -0000 > > > > al least those can be promptly fixed... > > > Wasn't this one promptly fixed too? > > This bug was reported on 2004-12-21: > > . > Well...sort of. The *symptoms* are reported there but no-one > identified it as a nvidia driver bug. duh... could the fact that the bug was well hidden within the depths of the binary blob play a role? Debugging _with_ a source code is a hell of a way to waste time sometimes, let alone trying to fix something when all you have is a binary module... a kernel module. des has a good point, though. IMHO, what he wanted to say is this: it doesn't help to be so ungrateful to nvidia. Bugs happen, especially in things as comlicated as modern videocard drivers. Videocards these days are far beyond the point when, given full documentation, a single person could write a driver for. They're not like a NIC, a soundcard, etc in that respect. Moreover, neither nvidia nor ati (or anyone else) are allowed to release any docs on their chips without an NDA (I know not what they're hiding, but, given how vast the windoze market is, they have a lot to lose). So those companies who do release a working driver for their videocards deserve a little respect for at least _trying_ to support us OSS users. However, a little more cooperation hardly would hurt, I think. Now, what to do if you need to use the nvidia driver, but want to avoid the security risk? Back in the good old days (for me, these were the days of DOS and Windoze 98), I used to patch misbehaving programs by disassembling and modifying the data... you know, standard procedure: insert some instructions bytes in suitable empty space, then trow in some form of jump, etc. I'm curious now, would this type of approach work in FreeBSD kernel module? > In fact there's no mention of nvidia at all until September 2006. > > Kris [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 20 02:30:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E1D116A403 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:30:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FD1843D67 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:30:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F8D41A4D8B; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E2801515AA; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:30:43 -0400 From: Kris Kennaway To: soralx@cydem.org Message-ID: <20061020023043.GA41532@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20061018205647.b8578efc.mmendez@energyhq.be> <20061019190436.GE19415@graf.pompo.net> <20061019191429.GA34611@xor.obsecurity.org> <200610191914.41286.soralx@cydem.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200610191914.41286.soralx@cydem.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Propietary NVIDIA driver pwn3d X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:30:51 -0000 --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 19, 2006 at 07:14:41PM -0700, soralx@cydem.org wrote: >=20 > > > > > al least those can be promptly fixed... > > > > Wasn't this one promptly fixed too? > > > This bug was reported on 2004-12-21: > > > . > > Well...sort of. The *symptoms* are reported there but no-one > > identified it as a nvidia driver bug. >=20 > duh... could the fact that the bug was well hidden within the depths > of the binary blob play a role? Debugging _with_ a source code is a > hell of a way to waste time sometimes, let alone trying to fix > something when all you have is a binary module... a kernel module. No, the point was that no-one in that URL pieced together that "the crash occurs only when I have nvidia loaded" until a few days ago, so it's not supportive of the original claim. i.e. since no-one even figured out nvidia was relevant, the closed-source nature of the nvidia driver isn't relevant either. Anyway, someone else suggested they did take a few months to deal with the problem once reported by someone else (but not nearly 2 years as originally claimed), so I'll give that the benefit of doubt. Kris --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFODTTWry0BWjoQKURAtY3AKCKR8FrzRzv+qwRDqP13uy4nf9/TgCg7bO0 12V1kefDzNsJRdfK4uNREHg= =XN9A -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 20 08:16:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F2D716A403 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 08:16:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B73643D75 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 08:16:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (wxklmr@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k9K8GgQP063509; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:16:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id k9K8GcBu063508; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:16:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:16:38 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200610200816.k9K8GcBu063508@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jeremie@le-hen.org, kris@obsecurity.org In-Reply-To: <20061019194046.GA35135@xor.obsecurity.org> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.2-20060425 ("Shillay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.11-STABLE (i386)) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:16:47 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Subject: Re: FreeBSD branches stats X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jeremie@le-hen.org, kris@obsecurity.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 08:16:49 -0000 Kris Kennaway wrote: > Jeremie Le Hen wrote: > > BTW, is it possible to gather statistics from the cvsup and cvs servers > > to get some figures about the use of FreeBSD branches ? > > Wouldn't be very meaningful, since almost by definition anyone still > using 4.x isn't aggressively tracking RELENG_4 (since a) there is > almost nothing to track, and b) such people will mostly have already > followed along to 6.x). That's probably right. However, there are release statistics at http://bsdstats.org/releases.php At the time of this writing, it's 1344 (6.x) vs 1152 (4.x). However, those numbers are probably not very meaningful either, because they represent only a very small fraction of all FreeBSD users. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing Dienstleistungen mit Schwerpunkt FreeBSD: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. "... there are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are _obviously_ no deficiencies and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no _obvious_ deficiencies." -- C.A.R. Hoare, ACM Turing Award Lecture, 1980 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 20 08:20:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9126F16A403 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 08:20:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Colin.Tovey@matrix.eu.com) Received: from mail.aquilaconsulting.com (mail1.aquilaconsulting.com [212.2.28.213]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48B7A43D72 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 08:20:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Colin.Tovey@matrix.eu.com) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:20:49 +0100 Message-ID: <7A16028B5DD3B142BF8C529F8D607B0298F02B@mail.aquilaconsulting.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: FreeBSD branches stats thread-index: Acb0IDeW+Dvapw87Q/2Ru+2LIvDSegAABH4A From: "Colin Tovey" To: , , Cc: Subject: RE: FreeBSD branches stats X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 08:20:55 -0000 Morning all, Don't know if any one can help... I am looking for a VMWare, Free/Open DSB, Redhat & SQL Project Manager. Does any one know of a anyone who might be interested. 3-6 mth contract paying =A3350/400 per day then perm @ Circa =A350k + = benefits package. Regards, Colin 07917 687 248=20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org = [mailto:owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Oliver Fromme Sent: 20 October 2006 09:17 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; jeremie@le-hen.org; kris@obsecurity.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD branches stats Kris Kennaway wrote: > Jeremie Le Hen wrote: > > BTW, is it possible to gather statistics from the cvsup and cvs = servers > > to get some figures about the use of FreeBSD branches ? >=20 > Wouldn't be very meaningful, since almost by definition anyone still > using 4.x isn't aggressively tracking RELENG_4 (since a) there is > almost nothing to track, and b) such people will mostly have already > followed along to 6.x). That's probably right. However, there are release statistics at http://bsdstats.org/releases.php At the time of this writing, it's 1344 (6.x) vs 1152 (4.x). However, those numbers are probably not very meaningful either, because they represent only a very small fraction of all FreeBSD users. Best regards Oliver --=20 Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing Dienstleistungen mit Schwerpunkt FreeBSD: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. "... there are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are _obviously_ no deficiencies and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no _obvious_ deficiencies." -- C.A.R. Hoare, ACM Turing Award Lecture, 1980 _______________________________________________ freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 20 09:51:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 686C416A416 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:51:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd3mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C21343D45 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:51:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd2mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr4so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.107]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J7F009ERI264P10@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 03:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml3so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.147]) by pd2mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J7F00L94I26HHN0@pd2mr4so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 03:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soralx.cydem.org ([24.87.27.3]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J7F009UII26ZS60@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 03:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:51:40 -0700 From: soralx@cydem.org To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <200610200251.40894.soralx@cydem.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 Subject: windoze 'kldload' equivalent X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:51:42 -0000 is there? anyone brave enough to use windows (the nerve-wrecking type -- without the X)? [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 20 12:40:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67AEB16A40F for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 12:40:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-chat@m.gmane.org) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AEF443D49 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 12:40:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd-chat@m.gmane.org) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1GatfO-00007A-9Z for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:40:02 +0200 Received: from lara.cc.fer.hr ([161.53.72.113]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:40:02 +0200 Received: from ivoras by lara.cc.fer.hr with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:40:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Ivan Voras Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:33:27 +0200 Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <20061019194046.GA35135@xor.obsecurity.org> <200610200816.k9K8GcBu063508@lurza.secnetix.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: lara.cc.fer.hr User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060625) In-Reply-To: <200610200816.k9K8GcBu063508@lurza.secnetix.de> Sender: news Subject: Re: FreeBSD branches stats X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 12:40:20 -0000 Oliver Fromme wrote: > http://bsdstats.org/releases.php Hmm, these stats look garbled to me. There are even some nonsensical data - versions 1.x and 9.x. My suggestion is to the creators of bsdstats to group version numbers by OS type (FreeBSD/NetBSD/others) since the current display seems unusable. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 20 13:47:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5DD016A47E for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:47:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from alnrmhc13.comcast.net (alnrmhc13.comcast.net [206.18.177.53]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 838F043D53 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:47:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from gimpy (c-24-118-173-219.hsd1.mn.comcast.net[24.118.173.219]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) with ESMTP id <20061020134735b1300l6croe>; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:47:38 +0000 From: Josh Paetzel To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 08:47:24 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.3 References: <20061019194046.GA35135@xor.obsecurity.org> <200610200816.k9K8GcBu063508@lurza.secnetix.de> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200610200847.25039.josh@tcbug.org> Cc: Ivan Voras Subject: Re: FreeBSD branches stats X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:47:39 -0000 On Friday 20 October 2006 07:33, Ivan Voras wrote: > Oliver Fromme wrote: > > http://bsdstats.org/releases.php > > Hmm, these stats look garbled to me. There are even some > nonsensical data - versions 1.x and 9.x. > > My suggestion is to the creators of bsdstats to group version > numbers by OS type (FreeBSD/NetBSD/others) since the current > display seems unusable. > Personally I've never had a very high opinion of the whole bsdstats thing. And while the merits of the whole thing might be debatable I think it's pretty obvious that the implimentation of it is poor at best. -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 21 02:31:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A7ED16A40F for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 02:31:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd4mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E6B643D46 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 02:31:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd2mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr5so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.8]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J7G005LLSBYWO20@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:31:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml8so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.152]) by pd2mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J7G00L4BSBY8P00@pd2mr5so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:31:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soralx.cydem.org ([24.87.27.3]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J7G0036RSBXK9E0@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:31:10 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 19:31:08 -0700 From: soralx@cydem.org In-reply-to: <200610200251.40894.soralx@cydem.org> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <200610201931.08399.soralx@cydem.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline References: <200610200251.40894.soralx@cydem.org> User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 Subject: Re: windoze 'kldload' equivalent X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 02:31:54 -0000 > is there? anyone brave enough to use windows (the nerve-wrecking > type -- without the X)? maybe somebody could suggest where to start looking? there _must_ be a mechanism to load kernel modules (drivers)... [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 21 04:04:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1106216A415 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 04:04:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from evil@evildomain.org) Received: from flpi102.sbcis.sbc.com (flpi102.sbcis.sbc.com [207.115.20.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF9CA43D45 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 04:04:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from evil@evildomain.org) X-ORBL: [75.4.252.2] Received: from [192.168.1.99] (adsl-75-4-252-2.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net [75.4.252.2]) by flpi102.sbcis.sbc.com (8.13.7 out spool5000 dk/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9L44n7k019809; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 21:04:52 -0700 Message-ID: <45399C59.8000302@evildomain.org> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 21:04:41 -0700 From: Aaron Holmes User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: soralx@cydem.org References: <200610200251.40894.soralx@cydem.org> <200610201931.08399.soralx@cydem.org> In-Reply-To: <200610201931.08399.soralx@cydem.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: windoze 'kldload' equivalent X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 04:04:41 -0000 soralx@cydem.org wrote: > NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.5 > X-Spam-Level: * > X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.5 (2006-08-29) on evildomain.org > > > >> is there? anyone brave enough to use windows (the nerve-wrecking >> type -- without the X)? >> > > maybe somebody could suggest where to start looking? there _must_ be > a mechanism to load kernel modules (drivers)... > > [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > with windows, all you need to do is tell windows where to look when you put in a piece of hardware, or run the installer that comes with it. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 21 08:45:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8D516A40F for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 08:45:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd5mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED7FA43D49 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 08:45:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd2mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr4so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.107]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J7H007IL9NS0870@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 02:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml8so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.152]) by pd2mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J7H00JLU9NSJDR0@pd2mr4so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 02:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soralx.cydem.org ([24.87.27.3]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J7H00JPE9NRZE90@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 02:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 01:45:25 -0700 From: soralx@cydem.org In-reply-to: <45399C59.8000302@evildomain.org> To: Undisclosed.Recipients: ; Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <200610210145.26143.soralx@cydem.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline References: <200610200251.40894.soralx@cydem.org> <200610201931.08399.soralx@cydem.org> <45399C59.8000302@evildomain.org> User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 Subject: Re: windoze 'kldload' equivalent X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 08:45:28 -0000 > >> is there? anyone brave enough to use windows (the nerve-wrecking > >> type -- without the X)? > > maybe somebody could suggest where to start looking? there _must_ be > > a mechanism to load kernel modules (drivers)... > with windows, all you need to do is tell windows where to look when you > put in a piece of hardware, or run the installer that comes with it. I'm booting from a live-cd, and the stupid thing tries to copy the driver files to it's system dir (which obviously it can't) before loading them [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 21 23:03:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD2F16A40F for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:03:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-unix@earthlink.net) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A2BB43D58 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:03:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bsd-unix@earthlink.net) Received: from fl-71-54-28-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net ([71.54.28.212] helo=kt.weeeble.com) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GbPs5-0006ek-00; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:03:17 -0400 Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:03:15 -0400 From: Randy Pratt To: Josh Paetzel Message-Id: <20061021190315.7aa63143.bsd-unix@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <200610200847.25039.josh@tcbug.org> References: <20061019194046.GA35135@xor.obsecurity.org> <200610200816.k9K8GcBu063508@lurza.secnetix.de> <200610200847.25039.josh@tcbug.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.2.9 (GTK+ 2.10.6; i386-portbld-freebsd6.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Ivan Voras Subject: Re: FreeBSD branches stats X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:03:24 -0000 On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 08:47:24 -0500 Josh Paetzel wrote: > On Friday 20 October 2006 07:33, Ivan Voras wrote: > > Oliver Fromme wrote: > > > http://bsdstats.org/releases.php > > > > Hmm, these stats look garbled to me. There are even some > > nonsensical data - versions 1.x and 9.x. > > > > My suggestion is to the creators of bsdstats to group version > > numbers by OS type (FreeBSD/NetBSD/others) since the current > > display seems unusable. > > > > Personally I've never had a very high opinion of the whole bsdstats > thing. And while the merits of the whole thing might be debatable I > think it's pretty obvious that the implimentation of it is poor at > best. I think the page referenced may include "release" numbers from all the reporting machines regardless of operating system. Better numbers from the relatively small sample can be found at http://www.bsdstats.org/freebsd/releases.php which tally up to the totals for FreeBSD listed on the main page. I find the number of 2.x systems a little puzzling though. The rest seem somewhat reasonable to me. I think seeing what hardware is being used is interesting and may have some future benefits but as it stands, I think there is some abuse by script kiddies going on. I'm sure things will improve as it progresses if Marc continues to work on it. Randy -- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 21 23:25:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC8ED16A49E for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:25:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@fer.hr) Received: from ls405.htnet.hr (ls405.t-com.hr [195.29.150.135]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3533943D62 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:25:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ivoras@fer.hr) Received: from ls422.t-com.hr (ls422.t-com.hr [195.29.150.237]) by ls405.htnet.hr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CC72144277; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 01:25:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ls422.t-com.hr (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ls422.t-com.hr (Qmlai) with ESMTP id 43772C90061; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 01:25:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Envelope-Sender-Info: KDHLkYIFXCRHG7zIR7FVXjcQtv/YKIEOwcYEZAX01KSuUxtbmIXyKdVwJsveOqtl X-Envelope-Sender: ivoras@fer.hr Received: from [10.0.0.100] (89-172-36-146.adsl.net.t-com.hr [89.172.36.146])by ls422.t-com.hr (Qmlai) with ESMTP id 8C72F130803B; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 01:25:11 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <453AAC58.1080409@fer.hr> Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 01:25:12 +0200 From: Ivan Voras User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Pratt References: <20061019194046.GA35135@xor.obsecurity.org> <200610200816.k9K8Gc Bu063508@lurza.secnetix.de> <200610200847.25039.josh@tcbug.org> <20061021190315.7aa63143.bsd-unix@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <20061021190315.7aa63143.bsd-unix@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-imss-version: 2.043 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-scores: Clean:42.32810 C:2 M:3 S:5 R:5 X-imss-settings: Baseline:1 C:1 M:1 S:1 R:1 (0.0000 0.0000) Cc: Josh Paetzel , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD branches stats X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:25:18 -0000 Randy Pratt wrote: > Better numbers from the relatively small sample can be found at > > http://www.bsdstats.org/freebsd/releases.php This is of course much better :) Since the page is already dynamic php, it might be better to offer users to query the system for whatever they need (via appropriate forms). Example query: "list statistics about use of freebsd 6.x on amd64 that use the mfi driver" and similar. Various levels of details can be achieved on such reports - for example listing CPUs, subversions of 6.x, etc.