From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 4 20:57:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CEF16A533 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 20:57:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [63.240.77.81]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE6144126 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 20:43:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from gimpy (c-24-118-173-219.hsd1.mn.comcast.net[24.118.173.219]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2006120420433801100rjbine>; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 20:43:38 +0000 From: Josh Paetzel To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 14:43:15 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> Cc: Subject: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 20:57:29 -0000 10 years ago I thought it would be fun to upgrade my 486 from DOS 6.22 to windows 95. It took me about two weeks to realize what a horrible mistake I had made, and my general dissatisfaction led me to seek out a non-MS alternative. I talked to some friends and mentioned that it would be sort of fun to learn a unix of some sort. One of them recommended FreeBSD and about a week later I had a set of CDs from Walnut Creek in my hand containing FreeBSD 2.1.5. I've been using FBSD ever since on my desktop and have even managed to make a living at administrating FBSD boxes for others. I've run into other OS's over the years. IRIX, Solaris, several linux distros, and am always glad when I can get away from them and back to FreeBSD. :) This email was sort of prompted by the news that the friend who showed me the wonders of FreeBSD has started migrating everything he runs to linux. I won't get into his reasoning, it's not really relevent to what I'm going on about. I started thinking about what would force *me* into the corner of having to move to a different OS and came up with a short list. 1) SMP scalability. 4-way boxes are relatively common, and hardware with higher CPU counts is only going to get more and more common. I'm no industry expert, but 5 years from now will my clients be considering buying 32 and 64 way boxes? Possibly. Will FreeBSD be in a positiion to compete favorably vs. the alternatives on such hardware? 2) RAID controller support. This is a huge one that affects me directly even today. Lack of in OS management tools for RAID controllers. I have some options if I can pick the hardware, but if a client brings me something and says this is the hardware you have to deal with a lot of times putting FBSD on it means living without management tools for the RAID controller in the OS. What good is hot-swappable drives if I have to take down the OS to rebuild the array? 3) Lack of direction in the project. The FreeBSD project has lost it's focus. 10 years ago there was a clear direction and purpose to the OS. It was targetted at high-performance network server apps on x86 and alpha hardware. Now days I'm not so sure. Is FBSD targetted at network servers, at desktops, at embedded devices? What architectures do we target? Looking at the website I see alpha, amd64, ARM, i386, ia64, MIPS, pc98, ppc, sparc64, sun4v, and xbox. I know this is a volunteer project, I know you really can't keep people from tinkering with what they want to tinker with, but xbox? It seems to me to be a waste of resources to concentrate on anything besides i386/AMD64.....there's plent of market share to be captured right there. I look at that list and see a future for AMD64. (Yes, I wouldn't be at all surprised if sparc went away) ARM isn't going away, but is FreeBSD really concerned with the embedded market? FreeBSD does not have the support or the financial backing to be all things to all people. It can't compete across the board with linux, so why try? Even if FBSD got to the point where it was as flexible as linux, HI, I'm a hard real time OS, and I'm a terrific desktop OS, and I make a great platform for apache, and I scale really well on 1024-way clusters, it would end up being linux.....fragmented and hacky and patched and ugly. This is a rant, and I've purposely posted it here and not forwarded it anyone who matters because it's not going to make any difference anyways. Feel free to prove me wrong, or to flame me. It's slow at work and I could use the diversion. If you *do* decide to flame me please take a moment to grep for josh@tcbug.org through the ports tree, or look for PR's with my name on them, or browse through the questions@ mailing list archives looking for responses from me. I have, and do, contribute to FreeBSD, which I feel gives me the right to complain a bit. I fully intend to ride the FBSD boat as long as possible, I just can't help but wonder if the slow leaks I see now are serious. -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 4 22:32:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE05E16A47E for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 22:32:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from ca.pugetsoundtechnology.com (ca.pugetsoundtechnology.com [38.99.2.247]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE01943CE9 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 22:27:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from pool-71-123-204-253.dllstx.fios.verizon.net ([71.123.204.253] helo=reedmedia.net) by ca.pugetsoundtechnology.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.54) id 1GrMHr-0002VL-9s; Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:27:47 -0800 Received: from reed@reedmedia.net by reedmedia.net with local (mailout 0.17) id 25566-1165271268; Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:27:51 -0600 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 16:27:48 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: Josh Paetzel In-Reply-To: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> Message-ID: References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:32:12 -0000 ... > pc98, ppc, sparc64, sun4v, and xbox. I know this is a volunteer > project, I know you really can't keep people from tinkering with what > they want to tinker with, but xbox? It seems to me to be a waste of > resources to concentrate on anything besides i386/AMD64.....there's > plent of market share to be captured right there. I look at that > list and see a future for AMD64. (Yes, I wouldn't be at all > surprised if sparc went away) ARM isn't going away, but is FreeBSD > really concerned with the embedded market? > > FreeBSD does not have the support or the financial backing to be all > things to all people. It can't compete across the board with linux, > so why try? Even if FBSD got to the point where it was as flexible You mention its a volunteer project above. I'd assume that some developers who volunteer their time to esoteric features or rarely used platforms also volunteer some time on features / bug fixes that are also widely used. But if they weren't allowed to do their "tinkering" they may never have volunteered on anything in the first place. Does anyone have any examples of this? Or thoughts about this? That's just my thought. I also volunteer to do open source related work which has involved tons of "tinkering". For example, I built and maintained an entire *Linux* distribution using the *NetBSD* "pkgsrc" for a few years (including Linux kernel, glibc, util-linux, etc via pkgsrc). But this work encouraged me to fix or improve many things not related to my custom distro. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 4 22:56:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E2CC16A5E2 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 22:56:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from illoai@gmail.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.171]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EBCC44011 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 22:50:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from illoai@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so2803672uge for ; Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:51:12 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ruuIxqQLAEA+qMWMAC24FMxWsO9E8h5uB0/IJoHYmGJBcQb1009w98p48JZosZFcrs9vSqc2oX0cdmyqCJX+ioVtBmHzDOqbwnmd+lWoaBkQrDoDbBsqbPM+7h2acYSyNiQpxK9WNUcfQgvj+ebbJEvAwHJ9hHByGVJPQnfrTTM= Received: by 10.82.169.4 with SMTP id r4mr1592232bue.1165272672067; Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:51:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.175.1 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 14:51:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 16:51:11 -0600 From: "illoai@gmail.com" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> Cc: Josh Paetzel Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:56:22 -0000 On 12/4/06, Josh Paetzel wrote (in part): : fragmented It needed to be said. -- -- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 4 23:32:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3078916A403 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 23:32:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nicole@unixgirl.com) Received: from web51814.mail.yahoo.com (web51814.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.233]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6C52A43CBF for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 23:31:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nicole@unixgirl.com) Received: (qmail 66444 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Dec 2006 23:31:55 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 6nMM3zMVM1mvmTIbzZ5LNwWoL9fkryUXOzY3caEWw5llQnWQfzZdjRYWpJmHRI.60IFFYrYReuRK7hI5.P950ZJ1qG_g6ExwN_xF1vTM.FQlZrYoGReLCTSCl53J96INV_lwa3WV4mwY.Mw- Received: from [67.112.21.27] by web51814.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:31:55 PST X-RocketYMMF: blabgoo Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 15:31:55 -0800 (PST) From: Nicole To: Josh Paetzel , chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <774463.66161.qm@web51814.mail.yahoo.com> Cc: Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: nicole@unixgirl.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:32:31 -0000 Since you started the thread, I thought I might add my 2cents... --- Josh Paetzel wrote: > 10 years ago I thought it would be fun to upgrade my 486 from DOS > 6.22 > to windows 95. It took me about two weeks to realize what a horrible > > mistake I had made, and my general dissatisfaction led me to seek out > > a non-MS alternative. I talked to some friends and mentioned that it > > would be sort of fun to learn a unix of some sort. One of them > recommended FreeBSD and about a week later I had a set of CDs from > Walnut Creek in my hand containing FreeBSD 2.1.5. I've been using > FBSD ever since on my desktop and have even managed to make a living > at administrating FBSD boxes for others. I've run into other OS's > over the years. IRIX, Solaris, several linux distros, and am always > glad when I can get away from them and back to FreeBSD. :) I started at about the same time. Since then I have loved using FreeBSD and helping others do the same. > This email was sort of prompted by the news that the friend who > showed > me the wonders of FreeBSD has started migrating everything he runs to > > linux. I won't get into his reasoning, it's not really relevent to > what I'm going on about. > > I started thinking about what would force *me* into the corner of > having to move to a different OS and came up with a short list. I have found myself in several situations of practicly being told to Run Linux. 1) MySql - My company paid them $5K support money to solve a problem we were having. After a few months their best advice was to switch to running RedHat Linux. Since Redhat paid them lots of money to make sure things were right, they felt our problem would magicaly go away or at least they could use their big money backers to help solve it. (We switched to 4.11 w/linux threads) Hoping to try FreeBSD 6 soon. 2) Zeus web servers/load balancers. Sold for linux or freeBSD or Solaris. However I was told that it was "designed for linux" and that would provide the best performance. 3) Network Appliance. Who I seriously had tech support people say, FreeBSD? I have never heard of that distro of Linux before. They bascicly told me FreeBSD's NFS support was greatly wanting and if we wanted any more improvment, to switch to linux. > 1) SMP scalability. 4-way boxes are relatively common, and hardware > > with higher CPU counts is only going to get more and more common. > I'm no industry expert, but 5 years from now will my clients be > considering buying 32 and 64 way boxes? Possibly. Will FreeBSD be > in a positiion to compete favorably vs. the alternatives on such > hardware? We use almost all Opteron Servers. As such, it is getting harder and harder to not have at least a dual core cpu and now to also have the apperance of 4 cpu's. > 2) RAID controller support. This is a huge one that affects me > directly even today. Lack of in OS management tools for RAID > controllers. I have some options if I can pick the hardware, but if > a client brings me something and says this is the hardware you have > to deal with a lot of times putting FBSD on it means living without > management tools for the RAID controller in the OS. What good is > hot-swappable drives if I have to take down the OS to rebuild the > array? Yes I have run into this as well. I use Infortrend (as it has out of band management) and 3-ware. Some Adaptec management tools worked back in 4.11 but I do not know if they will still work with 4.11 emulation. > 3) Lack of direction in the project. Oh my, I miss Jordan Hubbard. He was a great spokes-person / representative for FreeBSD. Well both he and Mike Smith gave a great front and nice face to FreeBSD. They, managed to give it more of a cult of personality. People like associating Linux with Linus Torvalds. People have a really hard time associating something to an entity like the FreeBSD foundation. I have always found Open Source people don't care much for headless corporations or foundations. FreeBSD needs that back to help give it a Someone as well as a Something to rally around. > The FreeBSD project has lost it's focus. 10 years ago there was a > clear direction and purpose to the OS. It was targetted at > high-performance network server apps on x86 and alpha hardware. Now > days I'm not so sure. Is FBSD targetted at network servers, at > desktops, at embedded devices? What architectures do we target? > Looking at the website I see alpha, amd64, ARM, i386, ia64, MIPS, > pc98, ppc, sparc64, sun4v, and xbox. I know this is a volunteer > project, I know you really can't keep people from tinkering with what > > they want to tinker with, but xbox? It seems to me to be a waste of > resources to concentrate on anything besides i386/AMD64.....there's > plent of market share to be captured right there. I look at that > list and see a future for AMD64. (Yes, I wouldn't be at all > surprised if sparc went away) ARM isn't going away, but is FreeBSD > really concerned with the embedded market? > > FreeBSD does not have the support or the financial backing to be all > things to all people. It can't compete across the board with linux, > so why try? Even if FBSD got to the point where it was as flexible > as linux, HI, I'm a hard real time OS, and I'm a terrific desktop OS, > > and I make a great platform for apache, and I scale really well on > 1024-way clusters, it would end up being linux.....fragmented and > hacky and patched and ugly. > > This is a rant, and I've purposely posted it here and not forwarded > it > anyone who matters because it's not going to make any difference > anyways. Feel free to prove me wrong, or to flame me. It's slow at > work and I could use the diversion. > > If you *do* decide to flame me please take a moment to grep for > josh@tcbug.org through the ports tree, or look for PR's with my name > on them, or browse through the questions@ mailing list archives > looking for responses from me. I have, and do, contribute to > FreeBSD, which I feel gives me the right to complain a bit. I fully > intend to ride the FBSD boat as long as possible, I just can't help > but wonder if the slow leaks I see now are serious. 4) Lack of File Journaling. If it were not for the work done by Pawel Jakub and his Journaling Patches recently, I would be running Linux for a growing number of servers right now. I can only hope it gets included into the OS soon so that OS partitions can be journaled as well. 5) My personal Pet Peeve. I miss, when apache (as an example) would get installed in /usr/local/apache. And all its configs and includes were there with it. Much like the /opt concept. If its not part of the OS, keep it seperate! There are so many ports I cannot use becouse it makes tracking updates and such across many servers much more difficult. I don't have the street cred that you have, but I have always been a supporter and heavy user (I run a very large site based 99% on freeBSD) and I would give more if I could. I often check the donations page to see if there is something needed I could justify to by bossees we should donate. (IE something that is needed that would benefit us) I will add however, that I have been looking more at various Linux's lately out of need and I have found them wanting in many ways for things I enjoy with FreeBSD. (Ability to boot off of a USB attached CD is a big one) I have stated or offered my view on the above vent. Some will call it ranting. Others will hopefully call it constructive criticism. What is used by FreeBSD to drive a direction or need these days? How can someone who is not a programmer really contribute to the faceless entity that is FreeBSD of late? As an example, if I knew I could help get better SMP performance work done by someone, but they needed hardware, I know I could get my bosses to donate some. But sadly bosses like some sort of proof they arn't just sending things or money off and not get something to show for it. Anyway, that's my rambling 2 cent addition. Flame away. That always wins people over. Nicole > -- > Thanks, > > Josh Paetzel > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 00:23:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C450A16A492 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 00:23:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fcash@ocis.net) Received: from smtp.sd73.bc.ca (smtp.sd73.bc.ca [142.24.13.140]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5360943CC1 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 00:21:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fcash@ocis.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.sd73.bc.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CDAB8A0073 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 16:21:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.sd73.bc.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.sd73.bc.ca [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 28283-89 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 16:21:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from s10.sbo (s10.sbo [192.168.0.10]) by smtp.sd73.bc.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32E08A0048 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 16:21:52 -0800 (PST) From: Freddie Cash To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 16:21:50 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <774463.66161.qm@web51814.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <774463.66161.qm@web51814.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200612041621.50857.fcash@ocis.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at sd73.bc.ca Cc: Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 00:23:09 -0000 On Monday 04 December 2006 03:31 pm, Nicole wrote: > --- Josh Paetzel wrote: > 5) My personal Pet Peeve. I miss, when apache (as an example) would > get installed in /usr/local/apache. And all its configs and includes > were there with it. Much like the /opt concept. If its not part of the > OS, keep it seperate! There are so many ports I cannot use becouse it > makes tracking updates and such across many servers much more > difficult. I like the FreeBSD filesystem hierarchy. It makes a lot more sense to me than the hodge-podge created by installing an app (including config files) into /path/to/app-name or the Linux method of "everything under /usr, all configs under /etc). The OS is installed to / and /usr, with OS config files under /etc. 3rd-party apps (ie ports) are installed under /usr/local with config files under /usr/local/etc. Gives a nice delineation between the OS and installed apps. Something I can't stand on Linux systems is that there is no concept of a "base OS" separate from "installed apps". Everything is a mish-mash under /usr and /etc. And don't get me started on the mess that is /var. I've tried reading through the Linux Filesystem Hierarchy Standard several times, and each time I've come away from it wondering how anyone could follow it. There's enough wiggle room in it that two distros could be FHS-compliant without any commonalities in the filesystem layouts. hier(7) on FreeBSD is not perfect, but it makes sense, and it's easy to read, and it's logical. For me, the only time it makes sense to put an entire app (including config and log files) into its own separate directory, is when manually installing from source (by-passing any package management tools the OS ships with). We do this quite often on RedHat systems as building RPMs from scratch is nobody's idea of fun. -- Freddie Cash fcash@ocis.net From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 02:15:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E2ED16A403 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 02:15:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ray@lambda.cultofray.net) Received: from lambda.cultofray.net (lambda.cultofray.net [80.68.95.53]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5663043CAF for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 02:15:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ray@lambda.cultofray.net) Received: from lambda.cultofray.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lambda.cultofray.net (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kB52FrG5016069; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 21:15:53 -0500 Received: (from ray@localhost) by lambda.cultofray.net (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id kB52Fq2S016068; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 21:15:52 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 21:15:52 -0500 From: Raymond Pasco To: Freddie Cash Message-ID: <20061205021552.GA16048@lambda.cultofray.net> References: <774463.66161.qm@web51814.mail.yahoo.com> <200612041621.50857.fcash@ocis.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200612041621.50857.fcash@ocis.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 02:15:57 -0000 On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 04:21:50PM -0800, Freddie Cash wrote: > Something I can't stand on Linux systems is that there is no concept of > a "base OS" separate from "installed apps". Everything is a mish-mash > under /usr and /etc. And don't get me started on the mess that is /var. If I had to pick one *single* reason why I use FreeBSD, that "separation" is it. Everything else is just cake under the icing. -- Raymond Pasco Mobile: +1 860 335 5022 (SMS only please) By receiving this email, you are agreeing to my terms and conditions, which can be found at: http://lambda.cultofray.net/~ray/terms.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 03:10:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DFF616A403 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 03:10:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dkelly@hiwaay.net) Received: from bee.hiwaay.net (bee.hiwaay.net [216.180.54.11]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 750D743CA5 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 03:09:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dkelly@hiwaay.net) Received: from [10.0.0.2] ([216.186.148.249]) (authenticated bits=0) by bee.hiwaay.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kB53AS9J1289064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 4 Dec 2006 21:10:30 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David Kelly Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 21:10:36 -0600 To: Josh Paetzel X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 03:10:32 -0000 On Dec 4, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Josh Paetzel wrote: > If you *do* decide to flame me please take a moment to grep for > josh@tcbug.org through the ports tree, or look for PR's with my name > on them, or browse through the questions@ mailing list archives > looking for responses from me. I have, and do, contribute to > FreeBSD, which I feel gives me the right to complain a bit. I fully > intend to ride the FBSD boat as long as possible, I just can't help > but wonder if the slow leaks I see now are serious. Know what I like best about FreeBSD? That this thread has NOT become a flamefest. That FreeBSD users and developers know the difference between constructive criticism and a troll. Know how to take constructive criticism, and how to ignore a troll. And just so there isn't any doubt, Josh's posting is "constructive criticism." -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net ======================================================================== Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 04:08:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17A1116A40F for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 04:08:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from sccrmhc15.comcast.net (sccrmhc15.comcast.net [204.127.200.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E409643CA5 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 04:07:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from gimpy (c-24-118-173-219.hsd1.mn.comcast.net[24.118.173.219]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc15) with ESMTP id <2006120504081301500b2hm4e>; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 04:08:13 +0000 From: Josh Paetzel To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 22:07:50 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200612042207.50372.josh@tcbug.org> Cc: David Kelly Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 04:08:15 -0000 On Monday 04 December 2006 21:10, David Kelly wrote: > On Dec 4, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > If you *do* decide to flame me please take a moment to grep for > > josh@tcbug.org through the ports tree, or look for PR's with my > > name on them, or browse through the questions@ mailing list > > archives looking for responses from me. I have, and do, > > contribute to FreeBSD, which I feel gives me the right to > > complain a bit. I fully intend to ride the FBSD boat as long as > > possible, I just can't help but wonder if the slow leaks I see > > now are serious. > > Know what I like best about FreeBSD? That this thread has NOT > become a flamefest. That FreeBSD users and developers know the > difference between constructive criticism and a troll. Know how to > take constructive criticism, and how to ignore a troll. And just so > there isn't any doubt, Josh's posting is "constructive criticism." > > -- > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net > =================================================================== >===== Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. I started and run the local BSD user group, and I've always been interested in seeing what the local LUG does, so I read their mailing list. One of the things I've always noticed is that the LUG mailing list is one big flame-fest. In the years our BUG has been in existance we've had one thread that was at all hostile, and it was the result of someone posting a bunch of political propaganda during the 04 presidential elections. We also have an IRC channel on freenode, and just the other day I went to kick someone out for the first time, only to find I wasn't on the access list. (For the record, the only reason I wanted to kick them is their client was dorked up and caught in a join/part cycle) What I'm getting at is that the FreeBSD community is for the most part terrific. For the record I haven't gotten anything close to a flame from anyone, either onlist or off. To be fair, I should mention the things that I think are awesome about FreeBSD. 1) The ports tree. Not without it's faults, but if you know how to massage it properly I think it's the best package management system in existance in the open source world....and it's better than any of the proprietary ones I've used from commercial vendors too. 2) The documentation. Chances are, if you want to do it it has excellent OFFICIAL documentation. My hats off to everyone that slaves away on the doc team. 3) The filesystem layout. Simply fantastic. The seperation between the base system and 3rd party apps is a godsend. 4) The ease of updating the base system. Sure, there have been some ugly upgrade paths between major version numbers. (2.x -> 3.x) and the fact that there's no feasible way to get UFS2 without a reinstall making 4.x -> 5.x || 6.x somewhat pointless, but even so, 5.x -> 6.x is cake, as was 3.x -> 4.x which is impressive. And minor version numbers are of course trivial. I could go on, but I'm getting too touchy feely for my own good I think. :) I think I'll add one more thing to my original rant. Why oh why oh why can't we have a journalling filesystem? I'll also add, I so hope I'm wrong and FreeBSD will be there for me for years and years and years to come. :) -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 12:51:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8581A16A4FC for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:51:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from cydem.org (S0106000103ce4c9c.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.27.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4F2D43D41 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:50:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from freen0de (unknown [192.168.0.250]) by cydem.org (Postfix/FreeBSD) with ESMTP id CBC5390F9E for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 04:51:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 04:51:08 -0800 From: To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20061205045108.6b3d8633@freen0de> In-Reply-To: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.5.2 (GTK+ 2.10.6; i386-portbld-freebsd6.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 12:51:46 -0000 On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 14:43:15 -0600 Josh Paetzel wrote: > days I'm not so sure. Is FBSD targetted at network servers, at > desktops, at embedded devices? don't know about the official target, but it does make a good workstation (or used to, before came pthreads and gnome, and maybe KDE: now tracking down crashes, bugs, compile errors, sudden breakage of things, never ending instability -- all this wastes huge amounts of time. Huge.) > What architectures do we target? > Looking at the website I see alpha, amd64, ARM, i386, ia64, MIPS, > pc98, ppc, sparc64, sun4v, and xbox. I know this is a volunteer > project, I know you really can't keep people from tinkering with what > they want to tinker with, but xbox? It seems to me to be a waste of > resources to concentrate on anything besides i386/AMD64..... perfectly normal and acceptable (and, IMHO, welcome) directions. Just like you, everyone (I suppose) wants to be able to run their favourite OS on the available hardware (every hw has its pros&cons, too) > surprised if sparc went away) ARM isn't going away, but is FreeBSD > really concerned with the embedded market? of course! (e.g., m0n0wall) can you suggest a better OS for this purpose? -- [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 13:54:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7004416A501 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 13:54:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cmc3list-bsd@yahoo.com) Received: from smtp106.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp106.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 81B5F43CA5 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 13:53:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cmc3list-bsd@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 42084 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2006 13:54:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=1OONmTZFfKLEZLNGUeCZ2WWVBPClCUYyOmyUKchAWHZSL96uvVpeJL4GquZHctnnFlD/9BUb/44+Wjdb4QUkJsXcZnIXilT0IvvIliy5OKUJhdTtm6oyhJRGAS0MU60WBwIPr5bbcp21weElEoR08QrfkC9cNj0OOY5xmJuPySE= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.102?) (cmc3goat@swbell.net@71.145.201.21 with plain) by smtp106.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2006 13:54:28 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: eJqs8UIVM1m9qK2oQvGF0YZL3eI5KRX_o9sOQVpEDi5jD_mPOlOjtbHK8zM9HcmbqhKkwkXuVb2j0pZEVIN6oJ1.gv4JwiHznHUM.8T2pJ2zvlsp.ea4OA-- Message-ID: <45757985.1080706@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 07:52:05 -0600 From: Chris Conn User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Raymond Pasco References: <774463.66161.qm@web51814.mail.yahoo.com> <200612041621.50857.fcash@ocis.net> <20061205021552.GA16048@lambda.cultofray.net> In-Reply-To: <20061205021552.GA16048@lambda.cultofray.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 13:54:31 -0000 Raymond Pasco wrote: > On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 04:21:50PM -0800, Freddie Cash wrote: >> Something I can't stand on Linux systems is that there is no concept of >> a "base OS" separate from "installed apps". Everything is a mish-mash >> under /usr and /etc. And don't get me started on the mess that is /var. > If I had to pick one *single* reason why I use FreeBSD, that > "separation" is it. Everything else is just cake under the icing. When I started working at IBM in 1997 I heard of Linux and thought, hmmm, that sounds interesting. One of my co-workers said "try FreeBSD, it's more like AIX". So I started with FreeBSD and later converted one of my PCs to use Slackware Linux too just do I'd have a feel for it, ran both for a few years. Over the years I stopped using Linux and stayed with FreeBSD. I don't mind Linux and IBM has done some great things with it (the product I support is built from Linux) but as a personal system FreeBSD just feels right to me, and I feel a strong loyalty to the project. Right now I'm using FreeBSD with Cygwin, gave my monitor to my kids so I have a little notebook running Win2K and can use Cygwin as an X Server to switch over to my FreeBSD box where I run Window Maker and have my music collection. I'm using Win2K for my mail because Thunderbird is a bit slower on the FreeBSD side (this is probably a limitation of Cygwin not FreeBSD). But otherwise it's a great setup. Sometime next year I'll probably buy a monitor to act as a 'head' for my FreeBSD box again :-). Chris in Austin From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 15:11:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E33816A508 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 15:11:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29C5143CA3 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 15:11:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AEA92088; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 16:11:38 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on tim.des.no Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EF402086; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 16:11:38 +0100 (CET) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E3594B85E; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 16:11:37 +0100 (CET) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: nicole@unixgirl.com References: <774463.66161.qm@web51814.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:11:37 +0100 In-Reply-To: <774463.66161.qm@web51814.mail.yahoo.com> (nicole@unixgirl.com's message of "Mon, 4 Dec 2006 15:31:55 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <8664cq9y3a.fsf@dwp.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Josh Paetzel , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:11:48 -0000 Nicole writes: > 3) Network Appliance. Who I seriously had tech support people say, > FreeBSD? I have never heard of that distro of Linux before. They > bascicly told me FreeBSD's NFS support was greatly wanting and if we > wanted any more improvment, to switch to linux. You were misinformed. NetApp filers are FreeBSD-based, and NetApp have made significant contributions to the project (e.g. the CVS repositories, mail archives, committers' home directories etc. are stored on a filer donated by NetApp) DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 15:26:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE3D16A416 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 15:26:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B80C143C9D for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 15:25:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2423B1A3C1C; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 07:26:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2C7615133E; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 10:26:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 10:26:03 -0500 From: Kris Kennaway To: Josh Paetzel Message-ID: <20061205152602.GA24071@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> <200612042207.50372.josh@tcbug.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200612042207.50372.josh@tcbug.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: David Kelly , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:26:23 -0000 --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 10:07:50PM -0600, Josh Paetzel wrote: > On Monday 04 December 2006 21:10, David Kelly wrote: > > On Dec 4, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > > If you *do* decide to flame me please take a moment to grep for > > > josh@tcbug.org through the ports tree, or look for PR's with my > > > name on them, or browse through the questions@ mailing list > > > archives looking for responses from me. I have, and do, > > > contribute to FreeBSD, which I feel gives me the right to > > > complain a bit. I fully intend to ride the FBSD boat as long as > > > possible, I just can't help but wonder if the slow leaks I see > > > now are serious. > > > > Know what I like best about FreeBSD? That this thread has NOT > > become a flamefest. That FreeBSD users and developers know the > > difference between constructive criticism and a troll. Know how to > > take constructive criticism, and how to ignore a troll. And just so > > there isn't any doubt, Josh's posting is "constructive criticism." > > > > -- > > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. >=20 > I started and run the local BSD user group, and I've always been=20 > interested in seeing what the local LUG does, so I read their mailing=20 > list. One of the things I've always noticed is that the LUG mailing=20 > list is one big flame-fest. In the years our BUG has been in=20 > existance we've had one thread that was at all hostile, and it was=20 > the result of someone posting a bunch of political propaganda during=20 > the 04 presidential elections. We also have an IRC channel on=20 > freenode, and just the other day I went to kick someone out for the=20 > first time, only to find I wasn't on the access list. (For the=20 > record, the only reason I wanted to kick them is their client was=20 > dorked up and caught in a join/part cycle) What I'm getting at is=20 > that the FreeBSD community is for the most part terrific. For the=20 > record I haven't gotten anything close to a flame from anyone, either=20 > onlist or off. >=20 > To be fair, I should mention the things that I think are awesome about=20 > FreeBSD. >=20 > 1) The ports tree. Not without it's faults, but if you know how to=20 > massage it properly I think it's the best package management system=20 > in existance in the open source world....and it's better than any of=20 > the proprietary ones I've used from commercial vendors too. >=20 > 2) The documentation. Chances are, if you want to do it it has=20 > excellent OFFICIAL documentation. My hats off to everyone that=20 > slaves away on the doc team. >=20 > 3) The filesystem layout. Simply fantastic. The seperation between=20 > the base system and 3rd party apps is a godsend. >=20 > 4) The ease of updating the base system. Sure, there have been some=20 > ugly upgrade paths between major version numbers. (2.x -> 3.x) and=20 > the fact that there's no feasible way to get UFS2 without a reinstall=20 > making 4.x -> 5.x || 6.x somewhat pointless, but even so, 5.x -> 6.x=20 > is cake, as was 3.x -> 4.x which is impressive. And minor version=20 > numbers are of course trivial. Actually there's something evil you can do involving using your swap partition as a temporary root mount so you can pivot over onto a new / and then reinitialize your slice a. You still need to dump and restore your other partitions though. OTOH, UFS2 isn't really necessary unless you need it. Kris --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFdY+KWry0BWjoQKURAu//AJ9fmF7w+JJYbcmNGrM6ukJy/CrgywCgs3HL moJljD9rOa4deVEWoJQjipo= =orGO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 15:26:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C707116A407 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 15:26:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3ABB43C9D for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 15:26:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BC021A3C19; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 07:26:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8761651A00; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 10:26:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 10:26:28 -0500 From: Kris Kennaway To: Josh Paetzel Message-ID: <20061205152628.GB24071@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> <200612042207.50372.josh@tcbug.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="i0/AhcQY5QxfSsSZ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200612042207.50372.josh@tcbug.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: David Kelly , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:26:48 -0000 --i0/AhcQY5QxfSsSZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 10:07:50PM -0600, Josh Paetzel wrote: > I think I'll add one more thing to my original rant. Why oh why oh=20 > why can't we have a journalling filesystem? 7.0 has UFS journalling via gjournal. Kris --i0/AhcQY5QxfSsSZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFdY+kWry0BWjoQKURAla/AJ0XVb+yBnGluPRIepSBmUFJ77xgZQCg/fNG A6LwJBZlIRSUzfrttYyw8gs= =0AiG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --i0/AhcQY5QxfSsSZ-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 16:48:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC78116A40F for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 16:48:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsdworld@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.184]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B30E43CAC for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 16:48:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsdworld@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id x37so257259nfc for ; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 08:48:50 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=JQZ61oUY9RpksMWeW/pAdzSL32sOGGH1GOEYIrv0aWnDPZpJkeHWXA4p44v2nFggycf7cybjZtbObyuLrLrMRDFZ2ctGVwrSf6fW/zklHWtowyB2A9ulNlI8ImlcTFK/R32KKreIWIeMWajxTTHCXs+J1e4NhGNYPlUlrYNbBF8= Received: by 10.82.141.4 with SMTP id o4mr1761119bud.1165337330016; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 08:48:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.107.7 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 08:48:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <6199c3dc0612050848g16a0911dga145485ba14bf21f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:48:49 -0500 From: "Benjamin Adams" To: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Bandwidth Monitoring program X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:48:53 -0000 I'm on a network that has a normal store firewall, setup as a NAT. I'm trying to find a way to monitor all bandwidth by clients through that firewall. I don't have the ability to just put an inline box to examine packets. Is there a program where I can see whats going on from the computer on that network. What I'm looking for is: client ip : 2.3 GB List of ports used in bandwidth amounts. Thanks for any help, Ben Adams From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 17:45:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1368E16A47B for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:45:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nomadlogic@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.232]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D931143C9D for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:44:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nomadlogic@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i28so1508070wra for ; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 09:45:22 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=sVAXWkgqNKdRBTbszvOFFrzxF0BrZUYVEqejFOQNDqGQtbdpm9bcJLmkQti/z+3JlAE/oNNQe/Pm+VHx5gRHoioGiPTqlOrG41EdqcTqjqX+IfDfTSQb3sTZaFFCh3kq70RjN6PLp8gmGO+Yf4J/B6lzJi+XXIf4qEtaGjiXR2Q= Received: by 10.78.21.7 with SMTP id 7mr9175720huu.1165340719507; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 09:45:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.195.14 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 09:45:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <57d710000612050945j2b1f7240mdcb58bc5afd2839e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 09:45:19 -0800 From: "pete wright" To: "Benjamin Adams" In-Reply-To: <6199c3dc0612050848g16a0911dga145485ba14bf21f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <6199c3dc0612050848g16a0911dga145485ba14bf21f@mail.gmail.com> Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bandwidth Monitoring program X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:45:24 -0000 On 12/5/06, Benjamin Adams wrote: > I'm on a network that has a normal store firewall, setup as a NAT. I'm > trying to find a way to monitor all bandwidth by clients through that > firewall. I don't have the ability to just put an inline box to examine > packets. Is there a program where I can see whats going on from the > computer on that network. > > What I'm looking for is: > client ip : 2.3 GB > List of ports used in bandwidth amounts. > hard to tell with out knowing what you are running as a gateway/router but I would look into using some sort of SNMP script to gather that info and plot it out. A lot of people use MRTG, i've recently starting using Cacti (www.cacti.net) to help implement this. HTH -pete -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 18:52:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7095B16A407; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 18:52:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joe@joeholden.co.uk) Received: from claire.ber.rewt.org.uk (claire.ber.rewt.org.uk [217.160.200.67]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 780ED43CA3; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 18:51:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from joe@joeholden.co.uk) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by claire.ber.rewt.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE7E5CA9; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 18:52:23 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at claire.ber.rewt.org.uk Received: from claire.ber.rewt.org.uk ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (claire.ber.rewt.org.uk [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xpz-AgLrsjit; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 18:52:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [62.84.172.67] (dsl172-67.as6911.net [62.84.172.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by claire.ber.rewt.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EF665CA5; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 18:52:20 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <4575BFE2.6060601@joeholden.co.uk> Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:52:18 +0000 From: Joe Holden User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benjamin Adams References: <6199c3dc0612050848g16a0911dga145485ba14bf21f@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6199c3dc0612050848g16a0911dga145485ba14bf21f@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bandwidth Monitoring program X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: joe@joeholden.co.uk List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:52:25 -0000 Benjamin Adams wrote: > I'm on a network that has a normal store firewall, setup as a NAT. I'm > trying to find a way to monitor all bandwidth by clients through that > firewall. I don't have the ability to just put an inline box to examine > packets. Is there a program where I can see whats going on from the > computer on that network. > > What I'm looking for is: > client ip : 2.3 GB > List of ports used in bandwidth amounts. > > > Thanks for any help, > Ben Adams Take a look at "bandwidthd," it's in ports HTH, Joe From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 20:17:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B950616A40F for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 20:17:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nick@van-laarhoven.org) Received: from smtp-1.orange.nl (smtp-1.orange.nl [193.252.22.241]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26AA243CA8 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 20:17:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nick@van-laarhoven.org) Received: from uitsmijter.van-laarhoven.org (ap-zvhz-13f05.adsl.wanadoo.nl [81.69.93.5]) by mwinf6009.orange.nl (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 820E970000AC for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 21:17:41 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20061205201741532.820E970000AC@mwinf6009.orange.nl Received: (qmail 1401 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2006 20:17:41 -0000 Received: from 10.66.0.143 by uitsmijter.van-laarhoven.org (envelope-from , uid 82) with qmail-scanner-1.25 (clamdscan: 0.88.4/2187. f-prot: 4.6.6/3.16.14. spamassassin: 3.1.7. Clear:RC:1(10.66.0.143):. Processed in 0.406225 secs); 05 Dec 2006 20:17:41 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: nick@van-laarhoven.org via uitsmijter.van-laarhoven.org X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.25 (Clear:RC:1(10.66.0.143):. Processed in 0.406225 secs) Received: from unknown (HELO van-laarhoven.org) (nick@10.66.0.143) by uitsmijter.van-laarhoven.org with SMTP; 5 Dec 2006 20:17:40 -0000 Received: (nullmailer pid 1594 invoked by uid 1001); Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:19:52 -0000 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 18:19:52 +0100 (CET) From: Nick Hibma X-X-Sender: nick@localhost To: Josh Paetzel In-Reply-To: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> Message-ID: <20061205180450.F1089@localhost> References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:17:43 -0000 > 1) SMP scalability. 4-way boxes are relatively common, and hardware > with higher CPU counts is only going to get more and more common. > I'm no industry expert, but 5 years from now will my clients be > considering buying 32 and 64 way boxes? Possibly. Will FreeBSD be > in a positiion to compete favorably vs. the alternatives on such > hardware? People have been working on this for years. It's a difficult thing to get right. Sun has been spending a *LOT* of time doing this for Solaris, and I bet that even Linux isn't there yet. > 2) RAID controller support. This is a huge one that affects me > directly even today. Lack of in OS management tools for RAID > controllers. I have some options if I can pick the hardware, but if > a client brings me something and says this is the hardware you have > to deal with a lot of times putting FBSD on it means living without > management tools for the RAID controller in the OS. What good is > hot-swappable drives if I have to take down the OS to rebuild the > array? YES! Well said. Actually, user front-end support for hardware is lacking in general. WiFi network handling, USB devices appearing and disappearing (stop pointing at me!), RAID controllers, environment stuff like fans, temperature sensors, I2C busses, etc. > 3) Lack of direction in the project. Sort of true. I like monopolies for this reason. > days I'm not so sure. Is FBSD targetted at network servers, at > desktops, at embedded devices? What architectures do we target? Network devices nowadays become more and more based on architectures like Xscale and MIPS. Perhaps you've seen recent articles on TheRegister.co.uk about small desktop boxes with VGA and USB, non-i386 based systems running Linux. I'm working on an embedded system which is AMD Geode with special hardware and very useful when you want 3 wifi cards + 2 ethernet interfaces plus a modem in a box. The things that I like FreeBSD for is the sometimes incredible stuff that appears in the sources: - GEOM based RAID filesystems. See Engelschalls 15 step process of converting a *running* system to a mirrored root filesystem with just one reboot for downtime. - Network related improvements. BSD still shows the way in many ways (IPSec for one). - The source quality is much,much,much better than in other OSes. Check out the USB drivers for one. We support 80% of the devices, with about 25% of the code (most of it was not written by me). Nick From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 21:10:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2098E16A40F for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 21:10:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [63.240.77.82]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E564243CC2 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 21:09:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from gimpy (c-24-118-173-219.hsd1.mn.comcast.net[24.118.173.219]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <200612052110220120015tp0e>; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 21:10:22 +0000 From: Josh Paetzel To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 15:09:58 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> <20061205180450.F1089@localhost> In-Reply-To: <20061205180450.F1089@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200612051509.58788.josh@tcbug.org> Cc: Nick Hibma Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 21:10:33 -0000 On Tuesday 05 December 2006 11:19, Nick Hibma wrote: > > 1) SMP scalability. 4-way boxes are relatively common, and > > hardware with higher CPU counts is only going to get more and > > more common. I'm no industry expert, but 5 years from now will my > > clients be considering buying 32 and 64 way boxes? Possibly. > > Will FreeBSD be in a positiion to compete favorably vs. the > > alternatives on such hardware? > > People have been working on this for years. It's a difficult thing > to get right. Sun has been spending a *LOT* of time doing this for > Solaris, and I bet that even Linux isn't there yet. > Linux actually scales very well in this area. My friends in the supercomputer business tell me that people are successfully using linux on 1024-way SSI boxes. It doesn't scale quite as well as IRIX, but a lot of people opt for linux anyways. For instance, NASA Columbia, which is a cluster of 20 512-way SSI Altix's is successfully running linux, and comes in #8 on top500.org's supercomputer list. http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2006/june/altix4700.html http://www.cs.virginia.edu/stream/stream_mail/2006/0012.html -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 21:23:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A58B16A40F for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 21:23:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhary@unsane.co.uk) Received: from unsane.co.uk (www.unsane.co.uk [85.233.185.162]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96A4E43CA6 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 21:22:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhary@unsane.co.uk) Received: from [10.0.0.100] (crayfish.unsane.co.uk [10.0.0.100]) (authenticated bits=0) by unsane.co.uk (8.13.7/8.13.3) with ESMTP id kB5LNmG5003151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 21:23:49 GMT (envelope-from jhary@unsane.co.uk) Message-ID: <4575E347.1080502@unsane.co.uk> Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 21:23:19 +0000 From: Vince Hoffman User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20061024) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> <200612042207.50372.josh@tcbug.org> <20061205152628.GB24071@xor.obsecurity.org> In-Reply-To: <20061205152628.GB24071@xor.obsecurity.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 21:23:42 -0000 Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 10:07:50PM -0600, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > >> I think I'll add one more thing to my original rant. Why oh why oh >> why can't we have a journalling filesystem? >> > > 7.0 has UFS journalling via gjournal. > > Kris > I have the patches for 6.x and as yet the disk i'm trying it on is happy. i'm using to store a periodic backup of a 9 gig file system (approx 300k files) and havent had any issues yet. If its something your keen to try then the link to the patches for 6-stable are below (search the geom mailing list for 6.0/6.1 patches) http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=914181+0+archive/2006/freebsd-stable/20061119.freebsd-stable Vince From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 21:36:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C931C16A412 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 21:36:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nomadlogic@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.236]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB03F43CB7 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 21:35:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nomadlogic@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i28so1563716wra for ; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 13:36:15 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ZJOw068TbDahY9qFCyUwPZruJ3ZIZ0OPAw8TqmMius0yfnXbGgGMESlTP8QBlTClKr8oTYcenMCUHSQrrSsZMOiSWZDyucvVbTXoqmvGBt7Ar6kt3nwXmNBkbk8BJyBYU0qkPPHwac7BMcXsn3ojiLwAzEVchUnU16nkz2z0480= Received: by 10.78.166.7 with SMTP id o7mr9463404hue.1165354574604; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 13:36:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.195.14 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 13:36:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <57d710000612051336y60823c77ta4143645529c1878@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 13:36:14 -0800 From: "pete wright" To: "Josh Paetzel" In-Reply-To: <200612051509.58788.josh@tcbug.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> <20061205180450.F1089@localhost> <200612051509.58788.josh@tcbug.org> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Nick Hibma Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 21:36:20 -0000 On 12/5/06, Josh Paetzel wrote: > On Tuesday 05 December 2006 11:19, Nick Hibma wrote: > > > 1) SMP scalability. 4-way boxes are relatively common, and > > > hardware with higher CPU counts is only going to get more and > > > more common. I'm no industry expert, but 5 years from now will my > > > clients be considering buying 32 and 64 way boxes? Possibly. > > > Will FreeBSD be in a positiion to compete favorably vs. the > > > alternatives on such hardware? > > > > People have been working on this for years. It's a difficult thing > > to get right. Sun has been spending a *LOT* of time doing this for > > Solaris, and I bet that even Linux isn't there yet. > > > > Linux actually scales very well in this area. My friends in the > supercomputer business tell me that people are successfully using > linux on 1024-way SSI boxes. It doesn't scale quite as well as IRIX, > but a lot of people opt for linux anyways. > > For instance, NASA Columbia, which is a cluster of 20 512-way SSI > Altix's is successfully running linux, and comes in #8 on > top500.org's supercomputer list. yea, i'm pretty familiar with those systems and i would have to say that the Altix is indeed quite impressive. but, i would not equate the ability for SGI to implement a large SSI cluster like this to a "normal" user being able to implement a similar setup with a stock linus kernel or stock distro for that matter.... -pete -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 22:07:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEE5916A407 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 22:07:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from sccrmhc15.comcast.net (sccrmhc15.comcast.net [204.127.200.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 224DC43C9D for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 22:06:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from gimpy (c-24-118-173-219.hsd1.mn.comcast.net[24.118.173.219]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc15) with ESMTP id <2006120522071301500b1mdke>; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 22:07:13 +0000 From: Josh Paetzel To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 16:06:49 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> <200612051509.58788.josh@tcbug.org> <57d710000612051336y60823c77ta4143645529c1878@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <57d710000612051336y60823c77ta4143645529c1878@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200612051606.50137.josh@tcbug.org> Cc: pete wright Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:07:14 -0000 On Tuesday 05 December 2006 15:36, pete wright wrote: > On 12/5/06, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > On Tuesday 05 December 2006 11:19, Nick Hibma wrote: > > > > 1) SMP scalability. 4-way boxes are relatively common, and > > > > hardware with higher CPU counts is only going to get more and > > > > more common. I'm no industry expert, but 5 years from now > > > > will my clients be considering buying 32 and 64 way boxes? > > > > Possibly. Will FreeBSD be in a positiion to compete favorably > > > > vs. the alternatives on such hardware? > > > > > > People have been working on this for years. It's a difficult > > > thing to get right. Sun has been spending a *LOT* of time doing > > > this for Solaris, and I bet that even Linux isn't there yet. > > > > Linux actually scales very well in this area. My friends in the > > supercomputer business tell me that people are successfully using > > linux on 1024-way SSI boxes. It doesn't scale quite as well as > > IRIX, but a lot of people opt for linux anyways. > > > > For instance, NASA Columbia, which is a cluster of 20 512-way SSI > > Altix's is successfully running linux, and comes in #8 on > > top500.org's supercomputer list. > > yea, i'm pretty familiar with those systems and i would have to say > that the Altix is indeed quite impressive. but, i would not equate > the ability for SGI to implement a large SSI cluster like this to a > "normal" user being able to implement a similar setup with a stock > linus kernel or stock distro for that matter.... > > -pete What sort of 'normal' user has access to that kind of hardware? Of course they aren't running a stock kernel or distro, but neither are a lot of the guys using linux on real-time embedded hardware. Google doesn't run a stock kernel or distro either, and Verio and Yahoo don't run stock FreeBSD distributions or kernels either. -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 22:45:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19B9016A492 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 22:45:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (66-23-211-162.clients.speedfactory.net [66.23.211.162]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E68F43CCA for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 22:45:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost.corp.yahoo.com (john@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kB5MjeS0053309; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:45:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:36:47 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> <57d710000612051336y60823c77ta4143645529c1878@mail.gmail.com> <200612051606.50137.josh@tcbug.org> In-Reply-To: <200612051606.50137.josh@tcbug.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200612051736.47980.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:45:43 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.3/2285/Tue Dec 5 08:58:47 2006 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.2 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: Josh Paetzel , pete wright Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:45:57 -0000 On Tuesday 05 December 2006 17:06, Josh Paetzel wrote: > On Tuesday 05 December 2006 15:36, pete wright wrote: > > On 12/5/06, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > > On Tuesday 05 December 2006 11:19, Nick Hibma wrote: > > > > > 1) SMP scalability. 4-way boxes are relatively common, and > > > > > hardware with higher CPU counts is only going to get more and > > > > > more common. I'm no industry expert, but 5 years from now > > > > > will my clients be considering buying 32 and 64 way boxes? > > > > > Possibly. Will FreeBSD be in a positiion to compete favorably > > > > > vs. the alternatives on such hardware? > > > > > > > > People have been working on this for years. It's a difficult > > > > thing to get right. Sun has been spending a *LOT* of time doing > > > > this for Solaris, and I bet that even Linux isn't there yet. > > > > > > Linux actually scales very well in this area. My friends in the > > > supercomputer business tell me that people are successfully using > > > linux on 1024-way SSI boxes. It doesn't scale quite as well as > > > IRIX, but a lot of people opt for linux anyways. > > > > > > For instance, NASA Columbia, which is a cluster of 20 512-way SSI > > > Altix's is successfully running linux, and comes in #8 on > > > top500.org's supercomputer list. > > > > yea, i'm pretty familiar with those systems and i would have to say > > that the Altix is indeed quite impressive. but, i would not equate > > the ability for SGI to implement a large SSI cluster like this to a > > "normal" user being able to implement a similar setup with a stock > > linus kernel or stock distro for that matter.... > > > > -pete > > What sort of 'normal' user has access to that kind of hardware? > > Of course they aren't running a stock kernel or distro, but neither > are a lot of the guys using linux on real-time embedded hardware. > Google doesn't run a stock kernel or distro either, and Verio and > Yahoo don't run stock FreeBSD distributions or kernels either. I would wager that Yahoo's FreeBSD kernel is a lot more stock than the Altix one for Linux though. I think the poster's point is that you aren't going to get an OTS OS to run on a 512-way cluster, and that if one had time and hardware one could probably hack FreeBSD up a bunch to run on a 512-way system just as SGI hacked up Linux. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 5 23:08:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF8BA16A47C; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 23:08:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from sccrmhc15.comcast.net (sccrmhc15.comcast.net [204.127.200.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5F843CA3; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 23:07:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from gimpy (c-24-118-173-219.hsd1.mn.comcast.net[24.118.173.219]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc15) with ESMTP id <2006120523081001500b3looe>; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 23:08:10 +0000 From: Josh Paetzel To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:07:46 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> <200612051606.50137.josh@tcbug.org> <200612051736.47980.jhb@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <200612051736.47980.jhb@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200612051707.46705.josh@tcbug.org> Cc: Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 23:08:13 -0000 On Tuesday 05 December 2006 16:36, John Baldwin wrote: > On Tuesday 05 December 2006 17:06, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > On Tuesday 05 December 2006 15:36, pete wright wrote: > > > On 12/5/06, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > > > On Tuesday 05 December 2006 11:19, Nick Hibma wrote: > > > > > > 1) SMP scalability. 4-way boxes are relatively common, > > > > > > and hardware with higher CPU counts is only going to get > > > > > > more and more common. I'm no industry expert, but 5 years > > > > > > from now will my clients be considering buying 32 and 64 > > > > > > way boxes? Possibly. Will FreeBSD be in a positiion to > > > > > > compete favorably vs. the alternatives on such hardware? > > > > > > > > > > People have been working on this for years. It's a > > > > > difficult thing to get right. Sun has been spending a *LOT* > > > > > of time doing this for Solaris, and I bet that even Linux > > > > > isn't there yet. > > > > > > > > Linux actually scales very well in this area. My friends in > > > > the supercomputer business tell me that people are > > > > successfully using linux on 1024-way SSI boxes. It doesn't > > > > scale quite as well as IRIX, but a lot of people opt for > > > > linux anyways. > > > > > > > > For instance, NASA Columbia, which is a cluster of 20 512-way > > > > SSI Altix's is successfully running linux, and comes in #8 on > > > > top500.org's supercomputer list. > > > > > > yea, i'm pretty familiar with those systems and i would have to > > > say that the Altix is indeed quite impressive. but, i would > > > not equate the ability for SGI to implement a large SSI cluster > > > like this to a "normal" user being able to implement a similar > > > setup with a stock linus kernel or stock distro for that > > > matter.... > > > > > > -pete > > > > What sort of 'normal' user has access to that kind of hardware? > > > > Of course they aren't running a stock kernel or distro, but > > neither are a lot of the guys using linux on real-time embedded > > hardware. Google doesn't run a stock kernel or distro either, and > > Verio and Yahoo don't run stock FreeBSD distributions or kernels > > either. > > I would wager that Yahoo's FreeBSD kernel is a lot more stock than > the Altix one for Linux though. I think the poster's point is that > you aren't going to get an OTS OS to run on a 512-way cluster, and > that if one had time and hardware one could probably hack FreeBSD > up a bunch to run on a 512-way system just as SGI hacked up Linux. Not to be pedantic, but the 512 way systems I mentioned are SSI boxes, not clusters. Granted I did mention a cluster of SSI boxes.... But yes, your point is taken. My point is no one has bothered (AFAIK) to do the needed work to FBSD. -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 04:06:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D05216A403 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 04:06:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sfourman@gmail.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.171]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A71743CA5 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 04:05:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from sfourman@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so23588uge for ; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:06:11 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=GoCfthPjvu5ST5C7Xo8Qc3m8+X9IwPPzUK+DFjPSOelztw2ndapjLA2y0KtEm5zC4buwWwgzcHEFswB/o5ymVMx38YJM1UdoaMsNDmlh+V/4lWnZwdd4EOKJD+KF+Mex4a78wxm5V2wlHd8IPg0f7xbsxlODYw7hWNiSUGh/KY8= Received: by 10.78.172.20 with SMTP id u20mr192994hue.1165377970709; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:06:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.135.9 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 20:06:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <11167f520612052006t46ffe6dfhfc3150dac23f964b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 22:06:10 -0600 From: "Sam Fourman Jr." To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Intel SoundMax Sound Card Support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 04:06:13 -0000 hello freebsd-chat@ I am reasonably new to the *BSD community so I hope this post is to a "General Questions list" I am wondering if there is in fact support in FreeBSD 6.2 or 7.0 current for the Intel SoundMax 4 XL on board sound card it is a 865PE chip set motherboard, and the dmesg comes up as no driver attached Thank you for any help Sam Fourman Jr. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 04:27:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B363316A403 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 04:27:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from illoai@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A9B843C9D for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 04:26:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from illoai@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id x37so420088nfc for ; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:27:28 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=U2JIFD15huHwdNQMcyvxJ0kBmSPHC6s/F+9D1Lo5iqj7d0xjUJlc6GVqNWdIKQqL7pLgycXPl0LH4DSN/Kp8yntEWetSJ1aBUj6PgQ/Z4fLY1yg0H8jaKjzdTvSGxs1reVYYajxzaT+Kf3u572XmkVnWchTFtUK546njoGF/+10= Received: by 10.82.169.4 with SMTP id r4mr53955bue.1165379248492; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:27:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.176.4 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 20:27:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 22:27:28 -0600 From: "illoai@gmail.com" To: "Sam Fourman Jr." In-Reply-To: <11167f520612052006t46ffe6dfhfc3150dac23f964b@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <11167f520612052006t46ffe6dfhfc3150dac23f964b@mail.gmail.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intel SoundMax Sound Card Support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 04:27:30 -0000 On 12/5/06, Sam Fourman Jr. wrote: > hello freebsd-chat@ > > I am reasonably new to the *BSD community so I hope this post is to a > "General Questions list" > > I am wondering if there is in fact support in FreeBSD 6.2 or 7.0 > current for the Intel SoundMax 4 XL on board sound card it is a 865PE > chip set motherboard, and the dmesg comes up as no driver attached > > Thank you for any help Being wholley unfamiliar with this device, I would suggest loading snd_driver.ko (I think)* at boot and then seeing a) if anything works and b) if the output of hostname# tail /dev/sndstat is enlightening.** *If I am not mangling something, this should load all of the available sound related modules. **dmesg -a | grep pcm (or perhaps . . . | grep snd) as well. -- -- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 05:52:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2758916A412; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 05:52:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [65.122.236.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3260F43C9D; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 05:52:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from anne-o1dpaayth1.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [65.122.236.2]) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04850; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 22:52:40 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200612060552.WAA04850@lariat.net> X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:52:34 -0700 To: "Benjamin Adams" , freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <6199c3dc0612050848g16a0911dga145485ba14bf21f@mail.gmail.co m> References: <6199c3dc0612050848g16a0911dga145485ba14bf21f@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4213473 Cc: Subject: Re: Bandwidth Monitoring program X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 05:52:47 -0000 Add a few IPFW "count" rules to count the bytes and packets. Then, periodically harvest and reset the counters via a cron job and write the results to a file. You can then prepare tables and charts which are as simple or as fancy as you please, without resorting to SNMP (which isn't secure). A little bit of code in your favorite scripting language will do it. And of course you can output to a graphing package, though for me a simple histogram using asterisks has sufficient precision in most cases. --Brett Glass At 09:48 AM 12/5/2006, Benjamin Adams wrote: >I'm on a network that has a normal store firewall, setup as a NAT. I'm >trying to find a way to monitor all bandwidth by clients through that >firewall. I don't have the ability to just put an inline box to examine >packets. Is there a program where I can see whats going on from the >computer on that network. > >What I'm looking for is: >client ip : 2.3 GB >List of ports used in bandwidth amounts. > > >Thanks for any help, >Ben Adams >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 07:54:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B94C16A5C6 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 07:54:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sfourman@gmail.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.175]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3F5043CA7 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 07:53:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from sfourman@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so57220uge for ; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 23:54:31 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=m9oMPg7AEr1Rh8e/S2GvvZ2J1LfP8MRue7RdH88exwwBjXgRETfKyO0T4Q8ecFEeKKYhBFTzVHcbIJuHrFTnUWCVaFIPvEi6ksSY8sqbuOlzefAhYf3uNPDor9DjvEj5rvtFu/rdcVSBw1umHxzzwHWv/DatU9Z2G5PJHBzABZo= Received: by 10.78.178.5 with SMTP id a5mr338131huf.1165391252349; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 23:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.135.9 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 23:47:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <11167f520612052347u52d38b9dub06f57be5d9f6f03@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 01:47:32 -0600 From: "Sam Fourman Jr." To: "illoai@gmail.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <11167f520612052006t46ffe6dfhfc3150dac23f964b@mail.gmail.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intel SoundMax Sound Card Support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 07:54:33 -0000 ok that advice worked now i get a new error in dmesg, it is the same as this post http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-multimedia/2005-November/003112.html that is what i get, (Primary Codec not ready) there is source code in that post from 2005 out of current? I am using 6.2RC1 can i just diff and compile? should this fix not be in 6.2 release? newbie a little confused Sam Fourman Jr. On 12/5/06, illoai@gmail.com wrote: > On 12/5/06, Sam Fourman Jr. wrote: > > hello freebsd-chat@ > > > > I am reasonably new to the *BSD community so I hope this post is to a > > "General Questions list" > > > > I am wondering if there is in fact support in FreeBSD 6.2 or 7.0 > > current for the Intel SoundMax 4 XL on board sound card it is a 865PE > > chip set motherboard, and the dmesg comes up as no driver attached > > > > Thank you for any help > > Being wholley unfamiliar with this device, I would suggest > loading snd_driver.ko (I think)* at boot and then seeing > a) if anything works and > b) if the output of > hostname# tail /dev/sndstat > is enlightening.** > > *If I am not mangling something, this should load all > of the available sound related modules. > > **dmesg -a | grep pcm (or perhaps . . . | grep snd) as well. > -- > -- > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 08:07:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65D8F16A403 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 08:07:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sfourman@gmail.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.175]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A0643CA2 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 08:06:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from sfourman@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so59177uge for ; Wed, 06 Dec 2006 00:07:09 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Aoi8TFp9xKJ+DJw+dAk0S1eam2rNHlXsSxrXRN9z2NZ9qqmnjv/zzc6vg/iOWf9bWSWLF00XQ72OMmg0aULN3OQzMXk9EaA3haFocJpcvE8/wf5ivKhWivHlN4OeHkzHAaty/a6F86vBNcdkYNtdMBv/aGni75FMXCq/PRxlsVc= Received: by 10.78.178.5 with SMTP id a5mr353415huf.1165392429445; Wed, 06 Dec 2006 00:07:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.135.9 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 00:07:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <11167f520612060007i7ed6927fh4d672662db5891b1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 02:07:08 -0600 From: "Sam Fourman Jr." To: "illoai@gmail.com" In-Reply-To: <11167f520612052347u52d38b9dub06f57be5d9f6f03@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <11167f520612052006t46ffe6dfhfc3150dac23f964b@mail.gmail.com> <11167f520612052347u52d38b9dub06f57be5d9f6f03@mail.gmail.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intel SoundMax Sound Card Support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 08:07:11 -0000 I figure a dmesg would help Copyright (c) 1992-2006 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD is a registered trademark of The FreeBSD Foundation. FreeBSD 6.2-RC1 #0: Thu Nov 16 05:12:08 UTC 2006 root@opus.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/SMP ACPI APIC Table: Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz quality 0 CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz (2423.88-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0xf29 Stepping = 9 Features=0xbfebfbff Features2=0x4400> Logical CPUs per core: 2 real memory = 1071841280 (1022 MB) avail memory = 1031311360 (983 MB) FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor System Detected: 2 CPUs cpu0 (BSP): APIC ID: 0 cpu1 (AP): APIC ID: 1 ioapic0 irqs 0-23 on motherboard kbd1 at kbdmux0 ath_hal: 0.9.17.2 (AR5210, AR5211, AR5212, RF5111, RF5112, RF2413, RF5413) acpi0: on motherboard acpi0: Power Button (fixed) Timecounter "ACPI-fast" frequency 3579545 Hz quality 1000 acpi_timer0: <24-bit timer at 3.579545MHz> port 0x408-0x40b on acpi0 cpu0: on acpi0 acpi_throttle0: on cpu0 cpu1: on acpi0 acpi_throttle1: on cpu1 acpi_throttle1: failed to attach P_CNT device_attach: acpi_throttle1 attach returned 6 pcib0: port 0xcf8-0xcff on acpi0 pci0: on pcib0 agp0: mem 0xf0000000-0xf7ffffff at device 0.0 on pci0 pcib1: at device 1.0 on pci0 pci1: on pcib1 nvidia0: mem 0xfb000000-0xfbffffff,0xe0000000-0xefffffff,0xfc000000-0xfcffffff irq 16 at device 0.0 on pci1 nvidia0: [GIANT-LOCKED] pcib2: at device 3.0 on pci0 pci2: on pcib2 em0: port 0xbc00-0xbc1f mem 0xfe000000-0xfe01ffff irq 18 at device 1.0 on pci2 em0: Ethernet address: 00:07:e9:71:09:ad uhci0: port 0xcc00-0xcc1f irq 16 at device 29.0 on pci0 uhci0: [GIANT-LOCKED] usb0: on uhci0 usb0: USB revision 1.0 uhub0: Intel UHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered uhci1: port 0xd000-0xd01f irq 19 at device 29.1 on pci0 uhci1: [GIANT-LOCKED] usb1: on uhci1 usb1: USB revision 1.0 uhub1: Intel UHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub1: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered uhci2: port 0xd400-0xd41f irq 18 at device 29.2 on pci0 uhci2: [GIANT-LOCKED] usb2: on uhci2 usb2: USB revision 1.0 uhub2: Intel UHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub2: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered uhci3: port 0xd800-0xd81f irq 16 at device 29.3 on pci0 uhci3: [GIANT-LOCKED] usb3: on uhci3 usb3: USB revision 1.0 uhub3: Intel UHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub3: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered ehci0: mem 0xfe200000-0xfe2003ff irq 23 at device 29.7 on pci0 ehci0: [GIANT-LOCKED] usb4: EHCI version 1.0 usb4: companion controllers, 2 ports each: usb0 usb1 usb2 usb3 usb4: on ehci0 usb4: USB revision 2.0 uhub4: Intel EHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 2.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub4: 8 ports with 8 removable, self powered pcib3: at device 30.0 on pci0 pci3: on pcib3 pci3: at device 2.0 (no driver attached) fwohci0: mem 0xfe102000-0xfe102fff irq 17 at device 7.0 on pci3 fwohci0: OHCI version 1.0 (ROM=0) fwohci0: No. of Isochronous channels is 8. fwohci0: EUI64 00:07:e9:00:00:71:09:ad fwohci0: Phy 1394a available S400, 3 ports. fwohci0: Link S400, max_rec 2048 bytes. firewire0: on fwohci0 fwe0: on firewire0 if_fwe0: Fake Ethernet address: 02:07:e9:71:09:ad fwe0: Ethernet address: 02:07:e9:71:09:ad fwe0: if_start running deferred for Giant sbp0: on firewire0 fwohci0: Initiate bus reset fwohci0: node_id=0xc800ffc0, gen=1, CYCLEMASTER mode firewire0: 1 nodes, maxhop <= 0, cable IRM = 0 (me) firewire0: bus manager 0 (me) isab0: at device 31.0 on pci0 isa0: on isab0 atapci0: port 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6,0x170-0x177,0x376,0xffa0-0xffaf at device 31.1 on pci0 ata0: on atapci0 ata1: on atapci0 atapci1: port 0xec00-0xec07,0xe800-0xe803,0xe400-0xe407,0xe000-0xe003,0xdc00-0xdc0f irq 18 at device 31.2 on pci0 ata2: on atapci1 ata3: on atapci1 pci0: at device 31.3 (no driver attached) pci0: at device 31.5 (no driver attached) acpi_button0: on acpi0 atkbdc0: port 0x60,0x64 irq 1 on acpi0 atkbd0: irq 1 on atkbdc0 kbd0 at atkbd0 atkbd0: [GIANT-LOCKED] psm0: irq 12 on atkbdc0 psm0: [GIANT-LOCKED] psm0: model MouseMan+, device ID 0 fdc0: port 0x3f0-0x3f1,0x3f2-0x3f3,0x3f4-0x3f5,0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on acpi0 fdc0: [FAST] fd0: <1440-KB 3.5" drive> on fdc0 drive 0 sio0: configured irq 4 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 sio0: port may not be enabled sio0: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on acpi0 sio0: type 16550A ppc0: port 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on acpi0 ppc0: Generic chipset (EPP/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode ppbus0: on ppc0 plip0: on ppbus0 lpt0: on ppbus0 lpt0: Interrupt-driven port ppi0: on ppbus0 pmtimer0 on isa0 sc0: at flags 0x100 on isa0 sc0: VGA <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x300> sio1: configured irq 3 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 sio1: port may not be enabled vga0: at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa0000-0xbffff on isa0 ukbd0: Honey Bee Nostromo SpeedPad2, rev 1.10/2.10, addr 2, iclass 3/1 kbd2 at ukbd0 ums0: Honey Bee Nostromo SpeedPad2, rev 1.10/2.10, addr 2, iclass 3/1 ums0: 3 buttons and Z dir. Timecounters tick every 1.000 msec acd0: CDRW at ata0-master UDMA33 acd1: DVDROM at ata0-slave PIO4 ad2: 9641MB at ata1-master UDMA100 SMP: AP CPU #1 Launched! Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ad2s1a NVRM: detected agp.ko, aborting NVIDIA AGP setup! On 12/6/06, Sam Fourman Jr. wrote: > ok that advice worked now i get a new error in dmesg, it is the same > as this post > > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-multimedia/2005-November/003112.html > > that is what i get, (Primary Codec not ready) there is source code in > that post from 2005 out of current? I am using 6.2RC1 can i just diff > and compile? should this fix not be in 6.2 release? > > newbie a little confused > > Sam Fourman Jr. > > On 12/5/06, illoai@gmail.com wrote: > > On 12/5/06, Sam Fourman Jr. wrote: > > > hello freebsd-chat@ > > > > > > I am reasonably new to the *BSD community so I hope this post is to a > > > "General Questions list" > > > > > > I am wondering if there is in fact support in FreeBSD 6.2 or 7.0 > > > current for the Intel SoundMax 4 XL on board sound card it is a 865PE > > > chip set motherboard, and the dmesg comes up as no driver attached > > > > > > Thank you for any help > > > > Being wholley unfamiliar with this device, I would suggest > > loading snd_driver.ko (I think)* at boot and then seeing > > a) if anything works and > > b) if the output of > > hostname# tail /dev/sndstat > > is enlightening.** > > > > *If I am not mangling something, this should load all > > of the available sound related modules. > > > > **dmesg -a | grep pcm (or perhaps . . . | grep snd) as well. > > -- > > -- > > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 15:57:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8B7E16A508 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 15:57:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (66-23-211-162.clients.speedfactory.net [66.23.211.162]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2E643CB0 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 15:56:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost.corp.yahoo.com (john@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kB6Fv0Io061076; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 10:57:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: Josh Paetzel Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 10:06:56 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> <200612051736.47980.jhb@freebsd.org> <200612051707.46705.josh@tcbug.org> In-Reply-To: <200612051707.46705.josh@tcbug.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200612061006.56852.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 06 Dec 2006 10:57:01 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.3/2293/Wed Dec 6 09:00:31 2006 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.2 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 15:57:16 -0000 On Tuesday 05 December 2006 18:07, Josh Paetzel wrote: > On Tuesday 05 December 2006 16:36, John Baldwin wrote: > > On Tuesday 05 December 2006 17:06, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > > On Tuesday 05 December 2006 15:36, pete wright wrote: > > > > On 12/5/06, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > > > > On Tuesday 05 December 2006 11:19, Nick Hibma wrote: > > > > > > > 1) SMP scalability. 4-way boxes are relatively common, > > > > > > > and hardware with higher CPU counts is only going to get > > > > > > > more and more common. I'm no industry expert, but 5 years > > > > > > > from now will my clients be considering buying 32 and 64 > > > > > > > way boxes? Possibly. Will FreeBSD be in a positiion to > > > > > > > compete favorably vs. the alternatives on such hardware? > > > > > > > > > > > > People have been working on this for years. It's a > > > > > > difficult thing to get right. Sun has been spending a *LOT* > > > > > > of time doing this for Solaris, and I bet that even Linux > > > > > > isn't there yet. > > > > > > > > > > Linux actually scales very well in this area. My friends in > > > > > the supercomputer business tell me that people are > > > > > successfully using linux on 1024-way SSI boxes. It doesn't > > > > > scale quite as well as IRIX, but a lot of people opt for > > > > > linux anyways. > > > > > > > > > > For instance, NASA Columbia, which is a cluster of 20 512-way > > > > > SSI Altix's is successfully running linux, and comes in #8 on > > > > > top500.org's supercomputer list. > > > > > > > > yea, i'm pretty familiar with those systems and i would have to > > > > say that the Altix is indeed quite impressive. but, i would > > > > not equate the ability for SGI to implement a large SSI cluster > > > > like this to a "normal" user being able to implement a similar > > > > setup with a stock linus kernel or stock distro for that > > > > matter.... > > > > > > > > -pete > > > > > > What sort of 'normal' user has access to that kind of hardware? > > > > > > Of course they aren't running a stock kernel or distro, but > > > neither are a lot of the guys using linux on real-time embedded > > > hardware. Google doesn't run a stock kernel or distro either, and > > > Verio and Yahoo don't run stock FreeBSD distributions or kernels > > > either. > > > > I would wager that Yahoo's FreeBSD kernel is a lot more stock than > > the Altix one for Linux though. I think the poster's point is that > > you aren't going to get an OTS OS to run on a 512-way cluster, and > > that if one had time and hardware one could probably hack FreeBSD > > up a bunch to run on a 512-way system just as SGI hacked up Linux. > > Not to be pedantic, but the 512 way systems I mentioned are SSI boxes, > not clusters. Granted I did mention a cluster of SSI boxes.... > > But yes, your point is taken. My point is no one has bothered (AFAIK) > to do the needed work to FBSD. Yes, but is that due to errors on the part of FreeBSD or is that because some professor likes Linux better and so he tasked his graduate students to go hack up a variant of Linux that runs on a 512-way machine? Scaling on a 512-way machine is quite a different ball of wax from scaling on 4-way, and scaling up to 32 and 64 is going to be another ball of wax as well. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 16:38:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1974016A500 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 16:38:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nomadlogic@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4D543E90 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 16:33:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nomadlogic@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i28so160021wra for ; Wed, 06 Dec 2006 08:34:08 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=JYapZj/Z6ZGHz0bLiqbBFrACTCfPWP/gxDkjT/1h1zcumuW0TpHNKZAl+ZgWFAykxgcLBVwNyKLXRAIjtO1/VYUNTjzT4TYH0bh1ZrUc5ItH2n5Q13/ED0YCBvoOS8rng7vxYjFQc7c8Cej+M0hvBJ7sDz6m0MvAwX7x57DuEfo= Received: by 10.78.204.1 with SMTP id b1mr579964hug.1165422847291; Wed, 06 Dec 2006 08:34:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.195.17 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 08:34:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <57d710000612060834s48fb0b9al6c2a8e895e587b7b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 08:34:06 -0800 From: "pete wright" To: "John Baldwin" In-Reply-To: <200612051736.47980.jhb@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> <57d710000612051336y60823c77ta4143645529c1878@mail.gmail.com> <200612051606.50137.josh@tcbug.org> <200612051736.47980.jhb@freebsd.org> Cc: Josh Paetzel , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 16:38:36 -0000 On 12/5/06, John Baldwin wrote: > On Tuesday 05 December 2006 17:06, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > On Tuesday 05 December 2006 15:36, pete wright wrote: > > > On 12/5/06, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > > > On Tuesday 05 December 2006 11:19, Nick Hibma wrote: > > > > > > 1) SMP scalability. 4-way boxes are relatively common, and > > > > > > hardware with higher CPU counts is only going to get more and > > > > > > more common. I'm no industry expert, but 5 years from now > > > > > > will my clients be considering buying 32 and 64 way boxes? > > > > > > Possibly. Will FreeBSD be in a positiion to compete favorably > > > > > > vs. the alternatives on such hardware? > > > > > > > > > > People have been working on this for years. It's a difficult > > > > > thing to get right. Sun has been spending a *LOT* of time doing > > > > > this for Solaris, and I bet that even Linux isn't there yet. > > > > > > > > Linux actually scales very well in this area. My friends in the > > > > supercomputer business tell me that people are successfully using > > > > linux on 1024-way SSI boxes. It doesn't scale quite as well as > > > > IRIX, but a lot of people opt for linux anyways. > > > > > > > > For instance, NASA Columbia, which is a cluster of 20 512-way SSI > > > > Altix's is successfully running linux, and comes in #8 on > > > > top500.org's supercomputer list. > > > > > > yea, i'm pretty familiar with those systems and i would have to say > > > that the Altix is indeed quite impressive. but, i would not equate > > > the ability for SGI to implement a large SSI cluster like this to a > > > "normal" user being able to implement a similar setup with a stock > > > linus kernel or stock distro for that matter.... > > > > > > -pete > > > > What sort of 'normal' user has access to that kind of hardware? > > > > Of course they aren't running a stock kernel or distro, but neither > > are a lot of the guys using linux on real-time embedded hardware. > > Google doesn't run a stock kernel or distro either, and Verio and > > Yahoo don't run stock FreeBSD distributions or kernels either. > > I would wager that Yahoo's FreeBSD kernel is a lot more stock than the Altix > one for Linux though. I think the poster's point is that you aren't going to > get an OTS OS to run on a 512-way cluster, and that if one had time and > hardware one could probably hack FreeBSD up a bunch to run on a 512-way > system just as SGI hacked up Linux. > yes, I should have been more clear on my intent. I was trying to point out that comparing Altix to a stock FreeBSD system may not be a fair comparison. I recon it'd be closer to what the folks at Juniper networks or NetApp have done. Taken the OS as a foundation to run their specific code on. As an aside, one of the large advantages IMHO opinion with using FreeBSD is the license itself which allows companies to use FreeBSD as a building block unencumbered with a prohibitive license. -pete -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 22:02:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDB9E16A791 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 22:02:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from cydem.org (S0106000103ce4c9c.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.27.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A35B3443B1 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 21:45:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from freen0de (unknown [192.168.0.251]) by cydem.org (Postfix/FreeBSD) with ESMTP id 07ABD91ED4 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 13:45:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 13:45:36 -0800 From: To: Message-ID: <20061206134536.0c775367@freen0de> In-Reply-To: <200612061006.56852.jhb@freebsd.org> References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> <200612051736.47980.jhb@freebsd.org> <200612051707.46705.josh@tcbug.org> <200612061006.56852.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.5.2 (GTK+ 2.10.6; i386-portbld-freebsd6.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 22:02:14 -0000 > 512-way machine? Scaling on a 512-way machine is quite a different > ball of wax from scaling on 4-way, and scaling up to 32 and 64 is > going to be another ball of wax as well. can you give a few examples how scaling ability can be a function of the number of cores? seems like my curiosity exceeds my imagination today -- can't come up with any good reasons why this is true :) > John Baldwin [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 6 23:06:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 908ED16A417 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 23:06:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (66-23-211-162.clients.speedfactory.net [66.23.211.162]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 821A243D69 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 23:05:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost.corp.yahoo.com (john@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kB6N6DOT064156; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 18:06:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 18:05:05 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <200612041443.15154.josh@tcbug.org> <200612061006.56852.jhb@freebsd.org> <20061206134536.0c775367@freen0de> In-Reply-To: <20061206134536.0c775367@freen0de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200612061805.05727.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 06 Dec 2006 18:06:13 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.3/2295/Wed Dec 6 15:57:06 2006 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.2 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: Subject: Re: Venting my frustration with FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 23:06:59 -0000 On Wednesday 06 December 2006 16:45, soralx@cydem.org wrote: > > > 512-way machine? Scaling on a 512-way machine is quite a different > > ball of wax from scaling on 4-way, and scaling up to 32 and 64 is > > going to be another ball of wax as well. > > can you give a few examples how scaling ability can be a function of > the number of cores? seems like my curiosity exceeds my imagination > today -- can't come up with any good reasons why this is true :) You may make different tradeoffs. For example, on a 4-cpu system, it may be fine to have certain data structures shared across CPUs and protected via a lock which avoids the overhead of multiple copies and complexity of updating multiple copies of a data structure. However, with a 512-way system you may have to resort to using duplicated per-cpu (or maybe per-cpu group) copies of a structure because the tradeoffs are different. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 10:09:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C74C16A526 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:09:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from infofarmer@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C8B43CC1 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:08:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from infofarmer@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id x37so804375nfc for ; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 02:09:39 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:x-google-sender-auth; b=YLVg8Tf9oWhcdCW27WTXd0PdXqypNqAn/BQwPL1KBJJViMFHVjSc5g/qPafrS1FFKY7Hm2V7QbUqlQsFyY1D+JBJFw1BWTChctyzpebNwYaqDH0F11+hyTAYt1d3sR7v4evBAApK2Djfwzq1IbBh/XJSVdxdx/JgHxlMXjrLtOs= Received: by 10.49.91.9 with SMTP id t9mr3631759nfl.1165485776270; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 02:02:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.164.20 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 02:02:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:02:55 +0300 From: "Andrew Pantyukhin" Sender: infofarmer@gmail.com To: misc@openbsd.org, ru-committers@freebsd.org, "FreeBSD Chat" , wednesday-meating@rinet.ru MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: cfb89990a2ee27b3 Cc: Subject: One new Soekris net4801-50 available in Moscow X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:09:54 -0000 0J/RgNC40LLQtdGCIQoKV2ltIFZhbmRlcHV0dGUg0YPRgdC/0LXRiNC90L4g0L/RgNC+0LHRgNCw 0LvRgdGPINC6INC90LDQvCDQsgrQnNC+0YHQutCy0YMg0Lgg0LfQsNGF0LLQsNGC0LjQuywg0L/Q vtC80LjQvNC+INC/0YDQvtGH0LjRhSDQt9Cw0LrQsNC30L7QsiwKU29la3JpcyBuZXQ0ODAxLTUw ICgxMDQ4MDE1MSkuCgrQodC/0LXQutC4OgpuZXQ0ODAxLTUwOiAyNjYgTWh6IENQVSwgMTI4IE1i eXRlIFNEUkFNLAozIEV0aGVybmV0LCAyIHNlcmlhbCwgVVNCIGNvbm5lY3RvciwgQ0Ygc29ja2V0 LAo0NCBwaW5zIElERSBjb25uZWN0b3IsIDEgTWluaS1QQ0kgc29ja2V0LCAzLjNWClBDSSBjb25u ZWN0b3IuCgrQn9C+0LTRgNC+0LHQvdC10LU6Cmh0dHBzOi8va2Q4NS5jb20vc29la3Jpcy5odG1s Cmh0dHA6Ly9zb2VrcmlzLmNvbS9uZXQ0ODAxLmh0bQoK0KHQv9C10YbQuNCw0LvRjNC90LDRjyDR htC10L3QsDogRVVSMjAwINC90LDQu9C40YfQvdGL0LzQuAoK0KHRgNC+0LrQuDog0YHQsNC80L7Q tSDQv9C+0LfQtNC90LXQtSAtINGD0YLRgNC+INCx0LvQuNC20LDQudGI0LXQs9C+CtCy0L7RgdC6 0YDQtdGB0LXQvdGM0Y8sIDEwINC00LXQutCw0LHRgNGPIDIwMDYg0LPQvtC00LAuCgrQoNC10YjQ sNC50YLQtdGB0Ywg0LHRi9GB0YLRgNC10LUgOi0pCg== From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 10:41:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CC3E16A524 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:41:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cgi-mailer-bounces-188189862@kundenserver.de) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.184]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29D2D43EC8 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:38:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cgi-mailer-bounces-188189862@kundenserver.de) Received: from [212.227.126.202] (helo=mrvnet.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1GsGeg-0006hz-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:39:06 +0100 Received: from [212.227.34.97] (helo=infong427 ident=8) by mrvnet.kundenserver.de with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1GsGeg-0001pW-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:39:06 +0100 Received: from [196.217.48.159](IP may be forged by CGI script) by infong427.kundenserver.de with HTTP; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:39:06 +0100 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:39:06 +0100 Precedence: bulk To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de sender-info:188189862@infong427 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: **Updat Account** X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Reply-To: PINRobot_donotreply@e-gold.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:41:59 -0000 Dear E-gold customer We regret to inform you that your E-gold account could be suspended if you don't re-update your account information. To resolve this problems please [1]click here and re-enter your account information. If your problems could not be resolved your account will be suspended for a period of 24 hours, after this period your account will be terminated. For the User Agreement, Section 9, we may immediately issue a warning, temporarily suspend, indefinitely suspend or terminate your membership and refuse to provide our services to you if we believe that your actions may cause financial loss or legal liability for you, our users or us. We may also take these actions if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us. Due to the suspension of this account, please be advised you are prohibited from using E-gold in any way. This includes the registering of a new account. Please note that this suspension does not relieve you of your agreed-upon obligation to pay any fees you may owe to E-gold. Regards,Safeharbor Department E-gold, Inc The E-gold team. This is an automatic message. Please do not reply. ______________________________________________________________________ |[2]Home |[3]Terms of Use |[4]About Us |[5]FAQ/Contact | References 1. http://e-gold-service.com/ 2. http://e-gold-service.com/ 3. http://e-gold-service.com/ 4. http://e-gold-service.com/ 5. http://e-gold-service.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 11:31:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F35016A505; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:31:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sem@FreeBSD.org) Received: from relay-er5.mbrd.ru (relay-er5.mbrd.ru [194.117.71.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD2743E01; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:27:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from sem@FreeBSD.org) Received: from msd.mbrd.ru ([172.16.33.193]) by relay-er5.mbrd.ru with esmtpa (Exim 4.x) id 1GsHQ9-000GAW-HW; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:28:09 +0300 Message-ID: <4577FAC9.6060001@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:28:09 +0300 From: Sergey Matveychuk User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Pantyukhin References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.93.2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: wednesday-meating@rinet.ru, misc@openbsd.org, FreeBSD Chat , ru-committers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One new Soekris net4801-50 available in Moscow X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:31:51 -0000 Andrew Pantyukhin wrote: > Привет! > > Wim Vandeputte успешно пробрался к нам в > Москву и захватил, помимо прочих заказов, > Soekris net4801-50 (10480151). > > Спеки: > net4801-50: 266 Mhz CPU, 128 Mbyte SDRAM, > 3 Ethernet, 2 serial, USB connector, CF socket, > 44 pins IDE connector, 1 Mini-PCI socket, 3.3V > PCI connector. > > Подробнее: > https://kd85.com/soekris.html > http://soekris.com/net4801.htm > > Специальная цена: EUR200 наличными > > Сроки: самое позднее - утро ближайшего > воскресенья, 10 декабря 2006 года. > > Решайтесь быстрее :-) Мне такой же обошелся в 300$ (с корпусом и БП) + 275$ растаможка. Так что предоложение хорошее! :) -- Dixi. Sem. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 7 12:56:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE07516A53C for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 12:56:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from infofarmer@gmail.com) Received: from hu-out-0506.google.com (hu-out-0506.google.com [72.14.214.231]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE4F143CF1 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 12:55:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from infofarmer@gmail.com) Received: by hu-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 38so100498huc for ; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 04:56:12 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=jnhIsXZGj6tMWIXwKmRwfsE9/rMGvYME6/S+P8KWOswfu/SBra/oRvlQOnwLxSQQF9wEXnxQkB6LYZJ6yYCBku+qE6FkpSvmQgyrU+N/MgmXi0kB38zzT7gMtQw3cw7wQq4tZtXsMZdC3ZDPVILOMXUGwop4izSAA6is1iL+KU4= Received: by 10.78.127.2 with SMTP id z2mr1449105huc.1165496171754; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 04:56:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.164.20 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 04:56:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 15:56:11 +0300 From: "Andrew Pantyukhin" Sender: infofarmer@gmail.com To: misc@openbsd.org, ru-committers@freebsd.org, "FreeBSD Chat" , wednesday-meating@rinet.ru In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 10fb73cbef6f5775 Cc: Subject: Re: One new Soekris net4801-50 available in Moscow X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:56:36 -0000 Sold. Sorry for the noise. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 8 03:17:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EEA316A40F; Fri, 8 Dec 2006 03:17:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul.koch@statseeker.com) Received: from wally.statseeker.com (wally.statscout.com [203.39.101.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A16A43CAC; Fri, 8 Dec 2006 03:16:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from paul.koch@statseeker.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wally.statseeker.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id kB64hgf5011048; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 14:43:42 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from paul.koch@statseeker.com) Received: from wally.statseeker.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (wally.statseeker.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 10842-01; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 14:43:30 +1000 (EST) Received: from speedy (speedy.statseeker.com [10.1.1.100]) (authenticated bits=0) by wally.statseeker.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id kB64hRhj011033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 6 Dec 2006 14:43:27 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from paul.koch@statseeker.com) From: Paul Koch To: "Benjamin Adams" Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 14:43:23 +1000 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <6199c3dc0612050848g16a0911dga145485ba14bf21f@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6199c3dc0612050848g16a0911dga145485ba14bf21f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200612061443.23626.paul.koch@statseeker.com> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at statseeker.com Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bandwidth Monitoring program X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: paul.koch@statseeker.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 03:17:01 -0000 On Wednesday 06 December 2006 02:48, Benjamin Adams wrote: > I'm on a network that has a normal store firewall, setup as a NAT. > I'm trying to find a way to monitor all bandwidth by clients through > that firewall. I don't have the ability to just put an inline box to > examine packets. Is there a program where I can see whats going on > from the computer on that network. > > What I'm looking for is: > client ip : 2.3 GB > List of ports used in bandwidth amounts. > > > Thanks for any help, > Ben Adams If the firewall device supports netflow, you could use one of the netflow collector/reporter ports. Otherwise you'll have to setup a mirror port on a switch, direct all the packets to another machine and use a program that captures/counts the packets on the wire and does the necessary stats. Fyi, for real-time address/protocol LAN statistics, we submitted a port a few months ago in net/ltm. You can add your own protocol types, but you'll need to read the supplied manual entries first :) Paul.