From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 30 11:02:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98FFA16A420 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:02:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EDD843D5A for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:02:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (peter@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k0UB2mV4019983 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:02:48 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k0UB2lN9019977 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:02:47 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:02:47 GMT Message-Id: <200601301102.k0UB2lN9019977@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: peter set sender to owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Current problem reports assigned to you X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:02:49 -0000 Current FreeBSD problem reports Critical problems Serious problems Non-critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [2000/01/04] misc/15876 small PicoBSD message of the day problems o [2001/06/18] misc/28255 small picobsd documentation still references ol o [2002/09/13] kern/42728 small many problems in src/usr.sbin/ppp/* afte o [2003/05/14] misc/52255 small picobsd build script fails under FreeBSD o [2003/05/14] misc/52256 small picobsd build script does not read in use 5 problems total. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 31 18:52:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAEA716A420; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:52:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rizzo@icir.org) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (xorpc.icir.org [192.150.187.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC29D43D78; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:52:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rizzo@icir.org) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k0VIqOwr057984; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 10:52:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo@xorpc.icir.org) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.11/8.12.3/Submit) id k0VIqODC057983; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 10:52:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 10:52:24 -0800 From: Luigi Rizzo To: current@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060131105224.A57698@xorpc.icir.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i Cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:52:31 -0000 [i am cc-ing -small because they are interested, but please keep the discussion on -current] as the subject says... The picobsd script in the tree at the moment is broken in several ways. It may work on 4.x, but not on newer releases. I have a fixed version (mostly the one i attached yesterday, with a minor fix to handle the newer boot blocks) that works also up to -current. Besides, it relies on ports/sysutils/makefs to build the filesystem image so it can run without superuser privs. I know it is not ideal to have a piece of code in the main tree that depends on an external port. Yet, better than have it broken. Now the options are: 1. do nothing and leave things broken; 2. commit the updated script, fix one or two sample targets, and remove the others (all of this is in src/release/picobsd) 3. remove the entire src/release/picobsd tree and move it to a port (question - do we want the old content of src/release/picobsd in ports/foo/picobsd/files ? In any case, we need a place in some repository to store these things) Option #3 is probably the best one, except that the exact 'config' files are strongly tied to the target source tree you are using, at least for major releases (libraries differ, application name change, etc) and so I'd need to modify the script to reach the templates for RELENG_7, RELENG_6... if they are not already in the target source tree. Also, this requires a repocopy. However given that i don't have a lot of time at the moment, i would compromise on option #2 for the time being, and move to option #3 at a later (but unspecified) time. comments ? cheers luigi From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 31 19:18:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4380E16A420; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:18:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66BE343D6E; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:18:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0VJFlLq035762; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:15:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:15:59 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20060131.121559.127178102.imp@bsdimp.com> To: rizzo@icir.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20060131105224.A57698@xorpc.icir.org> References: <20060131105224.A57698@xorpc.icir.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:15:49 -0700 (MST) Cc: current@freebsd.org, small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:18:22 -0000 In message: <20060131105224.A57698@xorpc.icir.org> Luigi Rizzo writes: : [i am cc-ing -small because they are interested, but please : keep the discussion on -current] : : as the subject says... : : The picobsd script in the tree at the moment is broken in : several ways. It may work on 4.x, but not on newer releases. : : I have a fixed version (mostly the one i attached yesterday, with : a minor fix to handle the newer boot blocks) that works also : up to -current. Besides, it relies on ports/sysutils/makefs to build : the filesystem image so it can run without superuser privs. : : I know it is not ideal to have a piece of code in the main tree : that depends on an external port. Yet, better than have it broken. : : Now the options are: : : 1. do nothing and leave things broken; : : 2. commit the updated script, fix one or two sample targets, : and remove the others (all of this is in src/release/picobsd) : : 3. remove the entire src/release/picobsd tree and move it to : a port (question - do we want the old content of src/release/picobsd : in ports/foo/picobsd/files ? In any case, we need a place in : some repository to store these things) : : Option #3 is probably the best one, except that the exact 'config' : files are strongly tied to the target source tree you are using, : at least for major releases (libraries differ, application name : change, etc) and so I'd need to modify the script to reach the : templates for RELENG_7, RELENG_6... if they are not already in the : target source tree. Also, this requires a repocopy. : : However given that i don't have a lot of time at the moment, : i would compromise on option #2 for the time being, and move : to option #3 at a later (but unspecified) time. : : comments ? Given how intertwingled picobsd is to the underly OS, I think you are going to have a hard time getting to #3. #2 is fine with me. Warner From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 31 19:56:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3656D16A420; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:56:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A9E543D45; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:56:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D46246BE7; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:55:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:57:57 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20060131.121559.127178102.imp@bsdimp.com> Message-ID: <20060131195637.U95776@fledge.watson.org> References: <20060131105224.A57698@xorpc.icir.org> <20060131.121559.127178102.imp@bsdimp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: rizzo@icir.org, current@freebsd.org, small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:56:08 -0000 On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, M. Warner Losh wrote: > Given how intertwingled picobsd is to the underly OS, I think you are going > to have a hard time getting to #3. #2 is fine with me. My feelings here are pretty much the same -- I'm skeptical about the continued ability to maintain PicoBSD outside CVS in a long-term way, given tight integration with the source tree. People can and do maintain there own versions of FreeBSD releases and wrappers (FreeSBIE is presumably the most successful example), but it's a lot of work, and if there's trouble finding enough hands for the current PicoBSD, it doesn't seem likely it will get more hands somewhere else. Robert N M Watson From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 31 20:03:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F61116A422; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:03:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from sam@errno.com) Received: from ebb.errno.com (ebb.errno.com [69.12.149.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3BC43D5C; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:03:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from sam@errno.com) Received: from [10.0.0.248] (trouble.errno.com [10.0.0.248]) (authenticated bits=0) by ebb.errno.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k0VK2to7006930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:02:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sam@errno.com) Message-ID: <43DFC2D5.7040706@errno.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:04:37 -0800 From: Sam Leffler User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051227) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson References: <20060131105224.A57698@xorpc.icir.org> <20060131.121559.127178102.imp@bsdimp.com> <20060131195637.U95776@fledge.watson.org> In-Reply-To: <20060131195637.U95776@fledge.watson.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: rizzo@icir.org, current@freebsd.org, small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:03:13 -0000 Robert Watson wrote: > > On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, M. Warner Losh wrote: > >> Given how intertwingled picobsd is to the underly OS, I think you are >> going to have a hard time getting to #3. #2 is fine with me. > > > My feelings here are pretty much the same -- I'm skeptical about the > continued ability to maintain PicoBSD outside CVS in a long-term way, > given tight integration with the source tree. People can and do > maintain there own versions of FreeBSD releases and wrappers (FreeSBIE > is presumably the most successful example), but it's a lot of work, and > if there's trouble finding enough hands for the current PicoBSD, it > doesn't seem likely it will get more hands somewhere else. My derivative of thewall project is similar to picobsd in it's approach and it might be worth combining the two. I've kept mine reasonably up to date and believe it works for 4.x, 5.x, and 6.x systems. Sam From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 31 20:05:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F2EE16A420; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:05:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E29643D6B; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:05:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0VK5CNe036373; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:05:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:05:24 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20060131.130524.66709261.imp@bsdimp.com> To: rwatson@freebsd.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20060131195637.U95776@fledge.watson.org> References: <20060131105224.A57698@xorpc.icir.org> <20060131.121559.127178102.imp@bsdimp.com> <20060131195637.U95776@fledge.watson.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:05:13 -0700 (MST) Cc: rizzo@icir.org, current@freebsd.org, small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:05:33 -0000 In message: <20060131195637.U95776@fledge.watson.org> Robert Watson writes: : : On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, M. Warner Losh wrote: : : > Given how intertwingled picobsd is to the underly OS, I think you are going : > to have a hard time getting to #3. #2 is fine with me. : : My feelings here are pretty much the same -- I'm skeptical about the continued : ability to maintain PicoBSD outside CVS in a long-term way, given tight : integration with the source tree. People can and do maintain there own : versions of FreeBSD releases and wrappers (FreeSBIE is presumably the most : successful example), but it's a lot of work, and if there's trouble finding : enough hands for the current PicoBSD, it doesn't seem likely it will get more : hands somewhere else. Our company maintains its own release tools that would fall somewhere between PicoBSD and NanoBSD. We've tried very hard to make them version independent, but it is a constant struggle. Warner From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 31 20:17:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E336A16A420; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:17:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 716CC43D53; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:17:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0VKGgqL036518; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:16:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:16:54 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20060131.131654.134137067.imp@bsdimp.com> To: sam@errno.com From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <43DFC2D5.7040706@errno.com> References: <20060131.121559.127178102.imp@bsdimp.com> <20060131195637.U95776@fledge.watson.org> <43DFC2D5.7040706@errno.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:16:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: rizzo@icir.org, rwatson@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:17:42 -0000 In message: <43DFC2D5.7040706@errno.com> Sam Leffler writes: : Robert Watson wrote: : > : > On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, M. Warner Losh wrote: : > : >> Given how intertwingled picobsd is to the underly OS, I think you are : >> going to have a hard time getting to #3. #2 is fine with me. : > : > : > My feelings here are pretty much the same -- I'm skeptical about the : > continued ability to maintain PicoBSD outside CVS in a long-term way, : > given tight integration with the source tree. People can and do : > maintain there own versions of FreeBSD releases and wrappers (FreeSBIE : > is presumably the most successful example), but it's a lot of work, and : > if there's trouble finding enough hands for the current PicoBSD, it : > doesn't seem likely it will get more hands somewhere else. : : My derivative of thewall project is similar to picobsd in it's approach : and it might be worth combining the two. I've kept mine reasonably up : to date and believe it works for 4.x, 5.x, and 6.x systems. Since I've started working on the bring up on an ARM based board, I've been wanting something that is easy to work with and that worked. I think it would help us a lot in the embedded space if we had something integrated into the base OS to do this stuff. Warner From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 31 21:23:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DF3016A420; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:23:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from pasmtp.tele.dk (pasmtp.tele.dk [193.162.159.95]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F04B43D7F; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:23:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (0x535c0e2a.sgnxx1.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [83.92.14.42]) by pasmtp.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B3B91EC30C; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:23:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k0VLMw8w003282; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:22:59 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: "M. Warner Losh" From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:16:54 MST." <20060131.131654.134137067.imp@bsdimp.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:22:58 +0000 Message-ID: <3281.1138742578@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@critter.freebsd.dk Cc: small@freebsd.org, sam@errno.com, rwatson@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, rizzo@icir.org Subject: Re: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:23:33 -0000 In message <20060131.131654.134137067.imp@bsdimp.com>, "M. Warner Losh" writes: >In message: <43DFC2D5.7040706@errno.com> > Sam Leffler writes: >Since I've started working on the bring up on an ARM based board, I've >been wanting something that is easy to work with and that worked. I >think it would help us a lot in the embedded space if we had something >integrated into the base OS to do this stuff. I agree. I think we need to be much more inclusive in our concept of a 'release' than we are now. As I see it, PicoBSD with its "additive" approach would cover the low-capacity (<32 MB ?) range, NanoBSD with its "subtractive" approach takes over from there, FreeSBIE covers the "don't touch my disk" range and finally the full blown release as we know it. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 31 21:29:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77EA816A43E; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:28:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from a50.ironport.com (a50.ironport.com [63.251.108.112]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15FC143D45; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:28:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from unknown (HELO [10.251.17.229]) ([10.251.17.229]) by a50.ironport.com with ESMTP; 31 Jan 2006 13:28:57 -0800 Message-ID: <43DFD698.7040508@elischer.org> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:28:56 -0800 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.11) Gecko/20050727 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poul-Henning Kamp References: <3281.1138742578@critter.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: <3281.1138742578@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: rizzo@icir.org, rwatson@freebsd.org, small@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:29:00 -0000 Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >In message <20060131.131654.134137067.imp@bsdimp.com>, "M. Warner Losh" writes: > > >>In message: <43DFC2D5.7040706@errno.com> >> Sam Leffler writes: >> >> > > > >>Since I've started working on the bring up on an ARM based board, I've >>been wanting something that is easy to work with and that worked. I >>think it would help us a lot in the embedded space if we had something >>integrated into the base OS to do this stuff. >> >> > >I agree. I think we need to be much more inclusive in our concept of >a 'release' than we are now. > >As I see it, PicoBSD with its "additive" approach would cover the >low-capacity (<32 MB ?) range, NanoBSD with its "subtractive" approach >takes over from there, FreeSBIE covers the "don't touch my disk" >range and finally the full blown release as we know it. > > I'd like to see us take the freesbie release into the tree somewhere (since it uses so many ports, maybe in ports, or maybe in tools) From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 31 21:35:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F0C016A422; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:35:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A65C43D68; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:35:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0VLYg1S039908; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:34:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:34:54 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20060131.143454.76964518.imp@bsdimp.com> To: phk@phk.freebsd.dk From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <3281.1138742578@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <20060131.131654.134137067.imp@bsdimp.com> <3281.1138742578@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:34:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: small@freebsd.org, sam@errno.com, rwatson@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, rizzo@icir.org Subject: Re: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:35:32 -0000 In message: <3281.1138742578@critter.freebsd.dk> "Poul-Henning Kamp" writes: : In message <20060131.131654.134137067.imp@bsdimp.com>, "M. Warner Losh" writes: : >In message: <43DFC2D5.7040706@errno.com> : > Sam Leffler writes: : : >Since I've started working on the bring up on an ARM based board, I've : >been wanting something that is easy to work with and that worked. I : >think it would help us a lot in the embedded space if we had something : >integrated into the base OS to do this stuff. : : I agree. I think we need to be much more inclusive in our concept of : a 'release' than we are now. : : As I see it, PicoBSD with its "additive" approach would cover the : low-capacity (<32 MB ?) range, NanoBSD with its "subtractive" approach : takes over from there, FreeSBIE covers the "don't touch my disk" : range and finally the full blown release as we know it. I tend to agree. For our build system, we take the additive approach without the crunchgen step... Given the price points for various parts on new projects I'm working on, we may need to move more towards a crunchgen and/or pure RAM disk... Having different alternatives helps us a lot and makes it easy to continue to deploy FreeBSD systems. Warner From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Feb 1 00:22:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4492116A420; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 00:22:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from saturnero@freesbie.org) Received: from jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it [83.149.128.151]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E8B143D46; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 00:21:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from saturnero@freesbie.org) Received: from jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it [83.149.128.151]) by jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADDE8574D; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 01:30:01 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on cvs.freesbie.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [192.168.99.16] (host14-150.pool875.interbusiness.it [87.5.150.14]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (Postfix) with ESMTP; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 01:30:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <43DFFF1A.4050406@freesbie.org> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 01:21:46 +0100 From: Dario Freni User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5 (Macintosh/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3281.1138742578@critter.freebsd.dk> <43DFD698.7040508@elischer.org> In-Reply-To: <43DFD698.7040508@elischer.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saturnero.net/saturnero.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig98EF1275CBBEC52DE5A857BE" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: small@freebsd.org, rizzo@icir.org, Poul-Henning Kamp , rwatson@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 00:22:00 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig98EF1275CBBEC52DE5A857BE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Julian Elischer wrote: > Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >=20 >> In message <20060131.131654.134137067.imp@bsdimp.com>, "M. Warner >> Losh" writes: >> =20 >> >>> In message: <43DFC2D5.7040706@errno.com> >>> Sam Leffler writes: >>> =20 >> >> =20 >> >>> Since I've started working on the bring up on an ARM based board, I'v= e >>> been wanting something that is easy to work with and that worked. I >>> think it would help us a lot in the embedded space if we had somethin= g >>> integrated into the base OS to do this stuff. >>> =20 >> >> I agree. I think we need to be much more inclusive in our concept of >> a 'release' than we are now. >> >> As I see it, PicoBSD with its "additive" approach would cover the >> low-capacity (<32 MB ?) range, NanoBSD with its "subtractive" approach= >> takes over from there, FreeSBIE covers the "don't touch my disk" >> range and finally the full blown release as we know it. >> =20 >> >=20 > I'd like to see us take the freesbie release into the tree somewhere > (since it uses so many > ports, maybe in ports, or maybe in tools) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" Do you mean the livecd or the build toolkit? The toolkit only needs mkisofs as port (like release/ scripts do, afaik). Bye, Dario --=20 Dario Freni (saturnero@freesbie.org) FreeSBIE developer (http://www.freesbie.org) GPG Public key at http://www.saturnero.net/saturnero.asc --------------enig98EF1275CBBEC52DE5A857BE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFD3/8aymi72IiShysRAnCYAKDuLhArEQ2taebuatmLm8/U2vrLggCg2Sjx r5zkVygNMShiZHezUqzgJqk= =6Vus -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig98EF1275CBBEC52DE5A857BE-- From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Feb 1 21:27:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233BC16A44A; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 21:27:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from saturnero@freesbie.org) Received: from jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it [83.149.128.151]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 745B943D48; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 21:27:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from saturnero@freesbie.org) Received: from jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it [83.149.128.151]) by jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D909579E; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:35:23 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on cvs.freesbie.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [192.168.99.16] (host14-150.pool875.interbusiness.it [87.5.150.14]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (Postfix) with ESMTP; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:35:22 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <43E127A5.9060503@freesbie.org> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 22:27:01 +0100 From: Dario Freni User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5 (Macintosh/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poul-Henning Kamp References: <3281.1138742578@critter.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: <3281.1138742578@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saturnero.net/saturnero.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigF60174883D20568F7055FDA3" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: rizzo@icir.org, rwatson@freebsd.org, small@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 21:27:23 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigF60174883D20568F7055FDA3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Poul-Henning Kamp ha scritto: > In message <20060131.131654.134137067.imp@bsdimp.com>, "M. Warner Losh"= writes: >> In message: <43DFC2D5.7040706@errno.com> >> Sam Leffler writes: >=20 >> Since I've started working on the bring up on an ARM based board, I've= >> been wanting something that is easy to work with and that worked. I >> think it would help us a lot in the embedded space if we had something= >> integrated into the base OS to do this stuff. >=20 > I agree. I think we need to be much more inclusive in our concept of > a 'release' than we are now. >=20 > As I see it, PicoBSD with its "additive" approach would cover the > low-capacity (<32 MB ?) range, NanoBSD with its "subtractive" approach > takes over from there, FreeSBIE covers the "don't touch my disk" > range and finally the full blown release as we know it. >=20 Actually, FreeSBIE 2 toolkit covers both approaches. It is successfully used in embedded enviroments. pfSense (www.pfsense.com) use it either for creating an install livecd as well as embedded images for soekris-like machines. It can perfectly act as NanoBSD (the only difference is the partitioning scheme which is trivial to reproduce by customizing FreeSBIE's image script). Nobody of you mind importing the toolkit in the source tree? :) --=20 Dario Freni (saturnero@freesbie.org) FreeSBIE developer (http://www.freesbie.org) GPG Public key at http://www.saturnero.net/saturnero.asc --------------enigF60174883D20568F7055FDA3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFD4Serymi72IiShysRAqK2AJ9fiNtXlzHcpiDIBrGGT3QH+BCNxQCaAqvd bm3Meu90tj3qgOVPKS59mSI= =T553 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigF60174883D20568F7055FDA3-- From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Feb 1 22:04:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 945D616A420; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:04:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from a50.ironport.com (a50.ironport.com [63.251.108.112]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE93F43D70; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:04:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from unknown (HELO [10.251.17.229]) ([10.251.17.229]) by a50.ironport.com with ESMTP; 01 Feb 2006 14:04:09 -0800 Message-ID: <43E13058.7020708@elischer.org> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 14:04:08 -0800 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.11) Gecko/20050727 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dario Freni References: <3281.1138742578@critter.freebsd.dk> <43E127A5.9060503@freesbie.org> In-Reply-To: <43E127A5.9060503@freesbie.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: small@freebsd.org, rizzo@icir.org, Poul-Henning Kamp , rwatson@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 22:04:14 -0000 Dario Freni wrote: >Poul-Henning Kamp ha scritto: > > >>In message <20060131.131654.134137067.imp@bsdimp.com>, "M. Warner Losh" writes: >> >> >>>In message: <43DFC2D5.7040706@errno.com> >>> Sam Leffler writes: >>> >>> >>>Since I've started working on the bring up on an ARM based board, I've >>>been wanting something that is easy to work with and that worked. I >>>think it would help us a lot in the embedded space if we had something >>>integrated into the base OS to do this stuff. >>> >>> >>I agree. I think we need to be much more inclusive in our concept of >>a 'release' than we are now. >> >>As I see it, PicoBSD with its "additive" approach would cover the >>low-capacity (<32 MB ?) range, NanoBSD with its "subtractive" approach >>takes over from there, FreeSBIE covers the "don't touch my disk" >>range and finally the full blown release as we know it. >> >> >> > >Actually, FreeSBIE 2 toolkit covers both approaches. It is successfully >used in embedded enviroments. pfSense (www.pfsense.com) use it either >for creating an install livecd as well as embedded images for >soekris-like machines. It can perfectly act as NanoBSD (the only >difference is the partitioning scheme which is trivial to reproduce by >customizing FreeSBIE's image script). > >Nobody of you mind importing the toolkit in the source tree? :) > > on the contrary i thin it should be there.. *somewhere*. the question is, "where?" I thought that's why you have access? From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Feb 1 22:16:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DE8216A420; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:16:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from a50.ironport.com (a50.ironport.com [63.251.108.112]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3071E43D48; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:16:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from unknown (HELO [10.251.17.229]) ([10.251.17.229]) by a50.ironport.com with ESMTP; 01 Feb 2006 14:16:17 -0800 Message-ID: <43E13330.709@elischer.org> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 14:16:16 -0800 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.11) Gecko/20050727 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer References: <3281.1138742578@critter.freebsd.dk> <43E127A5.9060503@freesbie.org> <43E13058.7020708@elischer.org> In-Reply-To: <43E13058.7020708@elischer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: small@freebsd.org, rizzo@icir.org, Poul-Henning Kamp , rwatson@freebsd.org, Dario Freni , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 22:16:17 -0000 Julian Elischer wrote: > Dario Freni wrote: > >> >> >> Nobody of you mind importing the toolkit in the source tree? :) >> >> > > on the contrary i thin it should be there.. *somewhere*. > the question is, "where?" BTW freesbie web page looks a bit sad with teh last post being in Dec 2004 Some_Freesbie_person (TM) should put something new there.. > > > I thought that's why you have access? > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 2 00:37:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0E616A420; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 00:37:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from saturnero@freesbie.org) Received: from jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it [83.149.128.151]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62BE943D53; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 00:37:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from saturnero@freesbie.org) Received: from jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it [83.149.128.151]) by jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90CCA5783; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 01:45:31 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on cvs.freesbie.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [192.168.99.16] (host14-150.pool875.interbusiness.it [87.5.150.14]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (Postfix) with ESMTP; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 01:45:31 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <43E15438.80700@freesbie.org> Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 01:37:12 +0100 From: Dario Freni User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5 (Macintosh/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer References: <3281.1138742578@critter.freebsd.dk> <43E127A5.9060503@freesbie.org> <43E13058.7020708@elischer.org> <43E13330.709@elischer.org> In-Reply-To: <43E13330.709@elischer.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saturnero.net/saturnero.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig04C287225C7733E4C7CD3CF2" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: small@freebsd.org, rizzo@icir.org, Poul-Henning Kamp , rwatson@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 00:37:28 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig04C287225C7733E4C7CD3CF2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Julian Elischer ha scritto: > Julian Elischer wrote: >=20 >> Dario Freni wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Nobody of you mind importing the toolkit in the source tree? :) >>> =20 >>> >> >> on the contrary i thin it should be there.. *somewhere*. >> the question is, "where?" >=20 >=20 > BTW freesbie web page looks a bit sad with teh last post being in Dec = 2004 > Some_Freesbie_person (TM) should put something new there.. I'm working on the new site, it will be up in a couple of days. Most of the people helping us with site, translation, mirrors, etc. were quite busy this year or disappeared at all, now I'm waking up all the tasks. The "news" are on the blog, actually. Sorry for that. >> I thought that's why you have access? Access to what? :) I have only a perforce access derived from SoC and I try to keep my project dir in sync with freesbie's cvs. --=20 Dario Freni (saturnero@freesbie.org) FreeSBIE developer (http://www.freesbie.org) GPG Public key at http://www.saturnero.net/saturnero.asc --------------enig04C287225C7733E4C7CD3CF2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFD4VQ7ymi72IiShysRAh0TAJ9MzB7G0fpfCvfQE/7kGy78homgHwCcDtD3 W807H8BYC5P68u14/OwMa+g= =hOJO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig04C287225C7733E4C7CD3CF2-- From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 2 00:48:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4EC16A420; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 00:48:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from saturnero@freesbie.org) Received: from jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it [83.149.128.151]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D82143D46; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 00:48:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from saturnero@freesbie.org) Received: from jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it [83.149.128.151]) by jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 900C75783; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 01:56:55 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on cvs.freesbie.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [192.168.99.16] (host14-150.pool875.interbusiness.it [87.5.150.14]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by jail1-fbsd4.consiagnet.it (Postfix) with ESMTP; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 01:56:55 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <43E156E7.8080900@freesbie.org> Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 01:48:39 +0100 From: Dario Freni User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5 (Macintosh/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer References: <3281.1138742578@critter.freebsd.dk> <43E127A5.9060503@freesbie.org> <43E13058.7020708@elischer.org> In-Reply-To: <43E13058.7020708@elischer.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saturnero.net/saturnero.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigBA491804E988211CABF1715A" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: small@freebsd.org, rizzo@icir.org, Poul-Henning Kamp , rwatson@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 00:48:47 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigBA491804E988211CABF1715A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Julian Elischer wrote: > on the contrary i thin it should be there.. *somewhere*. > the question is, "where?" I think that it can stay under tools. There's a port already under sysutils/freesbie (actually points to 1.x toolkit, will be updated in the weekend by the mantainer). We should also discuss the opportunity to use freesbie for release builds with bsdinstaller. Integrating the work already made with bsdinstaller test releases should be trivial. Bye, Dario P.S.: Maybe this belongs to arch@... --=20 Dario Freni (saturnero@freesbie.org) FreeSBIE developer (http://www.freesbie.org) GPG Public key at http://www.saturnero.net/saturnero.asc --------------enigBA491804E988211CABF1715A Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFD4Vbnymi72IiShysRArwWAJ44zYw3HDvBtXNv9v34eKSz4+r7PACg33O+ FnrSy7zsG+GdrZcQy3QviQw= =g4aT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigBA491804E988211CABF1715A-- From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 2 05:21:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECA2A16A420 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 05:21:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: from cruzio.com (dsl3-63-249-85-132.cruzio.com [63.249.85.132]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A275843D45 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 05:21:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k126O9rQ000471 for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:24:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: (from brucem@localhost) by mail.cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id k126O9eI000470 for freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:24:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brucem) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:24:09 -0800 (PST) From: "Bruce R. Montague" Message-Id: <200602020624.k126O9eI000470@mail.cruzio.com> To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Subject: Re: [RFC] what do we do with picobsd ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 05:21:38 -0000 Hi. I have found having the source to PicoBSD available in the kernel source tree quite useful, even if it's not in "turn-key" working shape and can't generate things that fit on a floppy anymore (I've used it for Disk-On-Chip and CF based systems, starting with around 2Mbyte devices). Most small systems <32M are going to be customized a bit, so the fact that things don't always completely work is tolerable... It's nice to start with what's conveniently there... Since picobsd is almost all simple config scripts and the picobsd script (well, there's tinyware too), it doesn't take up much space. (around 750K?) It's helpful to know that what you are looking at is the "intended best stuff" that works with the particular kernel/version, even if it doesn't work and isn't in perfect sync. If there was some other picobsd port scheme, you would be rummaging around worrying about whether you had the right version, searching version compatibility lists, etc... So I would encourage FreeBSD to keep PicoBSD where it is. And since Nanobsd's already there and it would be great to have Freesbie... so maybe a single dir with alternative build systems? Also, picobsd might yet again be useful for things like Xen guest-OSes that are each a simple wrapper for a single guest-OS application, enabling application migration. In this case, having a fully-functional OS with TCP/IP in as small a guest-OS footprint as possible might be useful. (and the Xen paravirtualization port of FreeBSD is apparently coming along...) - bruce