From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 16 03:29:06 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0423616A417 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 03:29:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scrappy@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 955FC13C461 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 03:29:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scrappy@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56EA9B46D14; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:29:04 -0300 (ADT) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 81000-04; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:29:03 -0300 (ADT) Received: from fserv.hub.org (blk-137-93-67.eastlink.ca [24.137.93.67]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C424B46D02; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:29:03 -0300 (ADT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (unknown [192.168.1.2]) by fserv.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8326C4BB54; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:29:02 -0300 (ADT) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:28:55 -0300 From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-ID: X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 03:29:06 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Friday, October 05, 2007 13:05:56 +0100 Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: >> From: "Marc G. Fournier" > [...] >> Percentage Change in September from August: >> >> Overall +12.8% > [...] >> FreeBSD - 7.4% (5008 hosts) > > Numbers have gone down as to what FreeBSD is concerned. Actually, so far this month, they've gone up 0.3% (and its only middle of month) ... it does fluctuate from month to month ... > I think it's because the bsdstats script is becoming a bit of a pain... > - The script keeps being changed and updated... Pardon? I have very rarely changed it ... I committed a change on Aug 29th to fix a problem with install.sh generating an error, and the last commit before that was on April 30th to clean up a bunch of portlint warnings ... prior to that, it was modified Dec 9th ... so there is about 4 months between updates ... > - The script now wants to run on startup, which is a pain. Why? What was wrong > with monthly reports? Why the haste? In my case it runs before an HTTP proxy > is up and running... I had to disable it. Why on earth enabled by default? > That's not what most ports do... The FreeBSD user is usually expected to > manually enable the port after installing it. ... we had several ppl reporting issues where they were using it on desktop's where the desktop was shut down over night, and would therefore *never* get reported ... if you are running a server, by all means, disable it in /etc/rc.conf ... Oddly enough, when I did add the /etc/rc.conf option, it was asking if you wanted to enable it there or not ... now that you point it out, am looking into it, since it was meant to be optional ... in fact, will add a note to the question that states that enabling in /etc/rc.conf is meant for desktop/laptops that aren't necessarily 'always on', not for servers that are ... thanks for pointing this one out, I didn't realize ... > While a lot of us understands the interest of this, and even takes the time to > take a look at how it's done, we also don't have the time to keep peting it > every time it changes behaviour. The first reaction might be uninstall the > port. Changing behaviour? Other then cleaning up some port code itself, and adding the /etc/rc.conf (which only affects things the first time installed), there has been no change in behaviour since ... December, from what I can tell, and the only change of behaviour then was to actually report non-configured devices that pciconf files ... so not 100% certain what you are talking about concerning 'changing behavioiur' ... > Also, I think the enabled by default thing is a very bad idea. Consider when > you're deploying a BSD in an enterprise environment; not everybody might > understand imediatly that it would be beneficial to have that thing reporting > automatically and by default... I don't believe anyone has advocated for 'enabled by default' in FreeBSD ... one of these days it would be nice if it was an install option in sysinstall, but that would again be purely opt-in, not on by default ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHFC/34QvfyHIvDvMRAqUfAKDP0LrlDNWqccdjMFitLCFB2Cj/EACfepiZ 2zJSUsvCDclGlaiI0Twi/rQ= =OyPU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 16 03:50:28 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B78B716A469 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 03:50:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 829E913C47E for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 03:50:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.184]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 504AFB46D49; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:32:12 -0300 (ADT) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.184]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 92470-04; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:32:01 -0300 (ADT) Received: from fserv.hub.org (blk-137-93-67.eastlink.ca [24.137.93.67]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEE05B46D02; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:32:10 -0300 (ADT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (unknown [192.168.1.2]) by fserv.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 029D04BB54; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:32:09 -0300 (ADT) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:32:03 -0300 From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Chad Perrin , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20071005190854.GB56296@demeter.hydra> References: <200710051205.l95C5u3r002502@satan.anjos.strangled.net> <20071005190854.GB56296@demeter.hydra> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 03:50:28 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Friday, October 05, 2007 13:08:54 -0600 Chad Perrin wrote: > I don't have any problem with running on start-up, or daily, or whatever > (as long as it's not in constant communication with the mothership, > sucking up bandwidth and system resources). I just wish that, succeed or > fail, it wasn't so damned slow. I don't need my bootup time or my > networking restart time slowed down by several minutes. I'll look into what i can do to speed things up ... see if I can shave some time off of the updates itself ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHFDCz4QvfyHIvDvMRAtKUAJ4o90gLUM/3sMZh5vf2TKEJtNS/ewCgtG5V e5UVWOQzCW7EJ1CyaA41kbg= =8g19 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 16 04:26:41 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9EAB16A417 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 04:26:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scrappy@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F1E613C458 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 04:26:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scrappy@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04A24B46D14; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:26:41 -0300 (ADT) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 36520-09; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:26:40 -0300 (ADT) Received: from fserv.hub.org (blk-137-93-67.eastlink.ca [24.137.93.67]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98F78B46D03; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:26:40 -0300 (ADT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (unknown [192.168.1.2]) by fserv.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565924BB54; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:26:40 -0300 (ADT) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:26:33 -0300 From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: "Marc G. Fournier" , Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 04:26:41 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Tuesday, October 16, 2007 00:28:55 -0300 "Marc G. Fournier" wrote: > Oddly enough, when I did add the /etc/rc.conf option, it was asking if you > wanted to enable it there or not ... now that you point it out, am looking > into it, since it was meant to be optional ... in fact, will add a note to > the question that states that enabling in /etc/rc.conf is meant for > desktop/laptops that aren't necessarily 'always on', not for servers that > are ... thanks for pointing this one out, I didn't realize ... I'm not sure why we merged it that 'if enabled in periodic.conf, also enable in /etc/rc.conf', but I've pulled that back out and made it a seperate optional, with a message explaining that that feature is meant for desktop/laptop environments, where they aren't 'always on', especially when monthly runs ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHFD154QvfyHIvDvMRAuQJAKCem2cWREl2ugzbb/iWHio2MEb+4ACdHheO FLRopqf3FeVe3ETtRb2ETeI= =AeRd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 16 04:39:02 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7958916A46E for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 04:39:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44E1513C45B for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 04:39:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB1B4B46D52; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:39:01 -0300 (ADT) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 97591-05; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:38:56 -0300 (ADT) Received: from fserv.hub.org (blk-137-93-67.eastlink.ca [24.137.93.67]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73E21B46D03; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:38:57 -0300 (ADT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (unknown [192.168.1.2]) by fserv.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BA624BB54; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:38:57 -0300 (ADT) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:38:49 -0300 From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: "Marc G. Fournier" , Chad Perrin , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <200710051205.l95C5u3r002502@satan.anjos.strangled.net> <20071005190854.GB56296@demeter.hydra> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 04:39:02 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Tuesday, October 16, 2007 00:32:03 -0300 "Marc G. Fournier" wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > - --On Friday, October 05, 2007 13:08:54 -0600 Chad Perrin > wrote: > >> I don't have any problem with running on start-up, or daily, or whatever >> (as long as it's not in constant communication with the mothership, >> sucking up bandwidth and system resources). I just wish that, succeed or >> fail, it wasn't so damned slow. I don't need my bootup time or my >> networking restart time slowed down by several minutes. > > I'll look into what i can do to speed things up ... see if I can shave some > time off of the updates itself ... not the most perfect solution, but I've changed the script so that *if* it is run with the - -nodelay option (ie. how it runs from /usr/local/etc/rc.d/bsdstats.sh, as well as when you install the port the first time), it will only report the Operating System, and neither devices or ports, even if configured ... The only time devices / ports will be reported is when run as part of monthly ... so, running it on reboot *should* be near invisible now, as devices/ports were the ones that took alot report in ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHFEBZ4QvfyHIvDvMRAqyZAJ0fRmgolh1hDOzJ6ad5nZWEirtpbgCg4YYH rtMJ7+Tya7AMfWrHhBpTosc= =AIM3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 16 17:06:05 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9920016A41B for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:06:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from outbound-mail-05.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-05.bluehost.com [69.89.21.15]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6107513C457 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:06:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (qmail 25537 invoked by uid 0); 16 Oct 2007 17:06:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box183.bluehost.com) (69.89.25.183) by mailproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2007 17:06:04 -0000 Received: from c-24-9-123-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.9.123.251] helo=demeter.hydra) by box183.bluehost.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1Ihpro-000841-Db for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:06:04 -0600 Received: from demeter.hydra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l9GH6Vlf017105 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:06:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (from ren@localhost) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id l9GH6VRh017104 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:06:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) X-Authentication-Warning: demeter.hydra: ren set sender to perrin@apotheon.com using -f Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:06:30 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20071016170630.GA17080@demeter.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <200710051205.l95C5u3r002502@satan.anjos.strangled.net> <20071005190854.GB56296@demeter.hydra> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {737:box183.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.net} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 24.9.123.251 authed with apotheon.com} X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box183.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [737 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - apotheon.com Subject: Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:06:05 -0000 On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 01:38:49AM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > not the most perfect solution, but I've changed the script so that *if* it is > run with the > - -nodelay option (ie. how it runs from /usr/local/etc/rc.d/bsdstats.sh, as well > as when you install the port the first time), it will only report the Operating > System, and neither devices or ports, even if configured ... > > The only time devices / ports will be reported is when run as part of monthly > ... so, running it on reboot *should* be near invisible now, as devices/ports > were the ones that took alot report in ... Thanks much. I appreciate the effort. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] MacUser, Nov. 1990: "There comes a time in the history of any project when it becomes necessary to shoot the engineers and begin production." From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 16 21:39:15 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11C7A16A41A for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:39:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: from mailrly05.isp.novis.pt (mailrly05.isp.novis.pt [195.23.133.215]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64E8F13C45A for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:39:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: (qmail 28746 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2007 21:39:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt01.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.193]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly05.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 16 Oct 2007 21:39:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 19324 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2007 21:39:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO satan.anjos.strangled.net) ([89.180.78.253]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt01.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 16 Oct 2007 21:39:11 -0000 Received: from satan.anjos.strangled.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by satan.anjos.strangled.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l9GLcrMJ014245; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:38:56 +0100 (WEST) (envelope-from miguel@satan.anjos.strangled.net) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by satan.anjos.strangled.net (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id l9GLcr8M014244; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:38:53 +0100 (WEST) (envelope-from miguel) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:38:53 +0100 (WEST) From: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-Id: <200710162138.l9GLcr8M014244@satan.anjos.strangled.net> To: scrappy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:39:15 -0000 > From: "Marc G. Fournier" [...] > Actually, so far this month, they've gone up 0.3% (and its only middle of > month) ... it does fluctuate from month to month ... > Just out of curiosity, on what criteria do you clean up your list? Maybe you're cleaning it up too often, no? > > I think it's because the bsdstats script is becoming a bit of a pain... > > - The script keeps being changed and updated... > > Pardon? I have very rarely changed it ... I committed a change on Aug 29th to > fix a problem with install.sh generating an error, and the last commit before > that was on April 30th to clean up a bunch of portlint warnings ... prior to > that, it was modified Dec 9th ... so there is about 4 months between updates > ... Yes, that is true. My memory deceived me. I still had the troubled initial period of Aug to Dec, 2006 in my memory. Clearly bsdstats is reaching stability. But consider that when you have a port update, you don't know if it was the program which was changed or just the installer. You have just commited another set of changes. I respect your decision of commiting the changes. On the other hand, I'm also not too keen on ports which require user intervention on install, because of batch installs and upgrades. Maybe that is not so crucial to a port like bsdstats, but still, wouldn't it just be better to let the user go add bsdstats_enable to rc.conf? I mean, we all have to do it for such basic things such as xdm or linux compatibility. If every FreeBSD user is "required" to do such configuration changes for those basic ports, why not for bsdstats? Now, imagine you would agree with me, and went on changing pkg-install... again... > ... we had several ppl reporting issues where they were using it on desktop's > where the desktop was shut down over night, and would therefore *never* get > reported ... if you are running a server, by all means, disable it in > /etc/rc.conf ... I understand that it is good to have it optionally on rc.conf. > Oddly enough, when I did add the /etc/rc.conf option, it was asking if you > wanted to enable it there or not ... now that you point it out, am looking into > it, since it was meant to be optional ... in fact, will add a note to the > question that states that enabling in /etc/rc.conf is meant for desktop/laptops > that aren't necessarily 'always on', not for servers that are ... thanks for > pointing this one out, I didn't realize ... I saw you just corrected it. > > While a lot of us understands the interest of this, and even takes the time to > > take a look at how it's done, we also don't have the time to keep peting it > > every time it changes behaviour. The first reaction might be uninstall the > > port. > > Changing behaviour? Other then cleaning up some port code itself, and adding > the /etc/rc.conf (which only affects things the first time installed), there > has been no change in behaviour since ... December, from what I can tell, and > the only change of behaviour then was to actually report non-configured devices > that pciconf files ... so not 100% certain what you are talking about > concerning 'changing behavioiur' ... When we, users, see a port changing, we do not know if it is only the install which changed or the program behaviour which changed. Certainly the install has changed behaviour, and that is troublesome for portupgrades done in batch. Thank you very much, and I certainly don't want to dictate the behaviour of bsdstats or its pkg-install script. It was just a complaint, because the idea is excellent but it did annoy me a little bit at some particular times. It will still annoy me a little bit because of the yes/no in pkg-install; maybe its me who should be more criterious before doing my portupgrades... -- Miguel Ramos Lisboa, Portugal From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 16 22:06:08 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E55316A421 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:06:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from outbound-mail-67.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-67.bluehost.com [69.89.21.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D976913C465 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:06:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (qmail 1051 invoked by uid 0); 16 Oct 2007 22:06:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box183.bluehost.com) (69.89.25.183) by mailproxy4.bluehost.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2007 22:06:06 -0000 Received: from c-24-9-123-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.9.123.251] helo=demeter.hydra) by box183.bluehost.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1IhuYA-0007pO-KT for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:06:06 -0600 Received: from demeter.hydra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l9GM6c3w018387 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:06:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (from ren@localhost) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id l9GM6c06018386 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:06:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) X-Authentication-Warning: demeter.hydra: ren set sender to perrin@apotheon.com using -f Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:06:37 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: FreeBSD Advocacy Message-ID: <20071016220637.GA18315@demeter.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <200710162138.l9GLcr8M014244@satan.anjos.strangled.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200710162138.l9GLcr8M014244@satan.anjos.strangled.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {737:box183.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.net} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 24.9.123.251 authed with apotheon.com} X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box183.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [737 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - apotheon.com Subject: Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:06:08 -0000 On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 10:38:53PM +0100, Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: > > On the other hand, I'm also not too keen on ports which require user > intervention on install, because of batch installs and upgrades. > Maybe that is not so crucial to a port like bsdstats, but still, wouldn't it > just be better to let the user go add bsdstats_enable to rc.conf? > > I mean, we all have to do it for such basic things such as xdm or linux > compatibility. If every FreeBSD user is "required" to do such configuration > changes for those basic ports, why not for bsdstats? Actually, I think a good solution for purposes batch installs and other situations where you want to minimize user interaction might be to insert a commented line in rc.conf. Of course, I imagine someone will disagree that scattering commented lines all over rc.conf is a good idea. Another option that might make sense would be to provide a post-install informational file that collects information related to post installation options for all ports/packages when they're added to the system (not just when added to ports). Such a resource would also help people learn something about ports they're installing for the first time, or changes to the ports. On the other hand, it might require a little more work on the part of port maintainers. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] MacUser, Nov. 1990: "There comes a time in the history of any project when it becomes necessary to shoot the engineers and begin production." From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 16 22:12:01 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3B6F16A419 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:12:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gvanessen@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.189]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513A113C447 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:12:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gvanessen@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so1695747nfb for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 15:12:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=YXykdHJPCfcm7WLl59S+SzktB+JU/gpy3eopxecTWTI=; b=Nk1BVsTw9FVBPxr22fZnwd4nDLyk2SMQ4/q1rbKbDV8KMKWj9mHyVgtGp1w3bFIpAH02t043BgyeeGP43RclBABmukjl0edZ3mWKA7d2OFopUejWnhIzQKmvCNlGH3DUNtL9YdbhFquSY0Fy7j3j9z1YY2aBjEYX8Bg/+djS+lA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=XCz7mVbAT0KP8wgMbmy3j3PdIojpPahncS1Y08nI9sHmQe3bEKwelVJM/1HstC9OkVKemSzIKQuOdimNIS3ze1STqxaGPkjD+XWgczkpf4xIawjhL9XHO8jPeF6sO3m8FchViIE4IwbCPGdhTDyTlP9Rgv+dN4OHX94qjjnZsvQ= Received: by 10.82.181.10 with SMTP id d10mr1650357buf.1192571103341; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.176.17 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:45:03 +0100 From: "Gerard van Essen" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20071016170630.GA17080@demeter.hydra> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200710051205.l95C5u3r002502@satan.anjos.strangled.net> <20071005190854.GB56296@demeter.hydra> <20071016170630.GA17080@demeter.hydra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:12:01 -0000 Just a side note: When you click on "platform" or "trends" you get an "URL not found" error. Suggestion: It would be nice to see data from previous months on the website as well. Thanks Gerard FreeBSD - Reliable, Flexible and Secure On 10/16/07, Chad Perrin wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 01:38:49AM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > > not the most perfect solution, but I've changed the script so that *if* > it is > > run with the > > - -nodelay option (ie. how it runs from /usr/local/etc/rc.d/bsdstats.sh, > as well > > as when you install the port the first time), it will only report the > Operating > > System, and neither devices or ports, even if configured ... > > > > The only time devices / ports will be reported is when run as part of > monthly > > ... so, running it on reboot *should* be near invisible now, as > devices/ports > > were the ones that took alot report in ... > > Thanks much. I appreciate the effort. > > -- > CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] > MacUser, Nov. 1990: "There comes a time in the history of any project when > it becomes necessary to shoot the engineers and begin production." > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org > " > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 16 23:50:59 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA53316A468 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:50:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52E4413C459 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:50:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9276B47077; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:50:58 -0300 (ADT) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30082-01; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:50:47 -0300 (ADT) Received: from fserv.hub.org (blk-137-93-67.eastlink.ca [24.137.93.67]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EE6DB4706B; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:50:58 -0300 (ADT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (unknown [192.168.1.2]) by fserv.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28ED34BC95; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:51:02 -0300 (ADT) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:50:46 -0300 From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Gerard van Essen , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <200710051205.l95C5u3r002502@satan.anjos.strangled.net> <20071005190854.GB56296@demeter.hydra> <20071016170630.GA17080@demeter.hydra> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Antony Mawer Subject: Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:50:59 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 These are all on the TODO ... our 'webmaster' went and decided to get married, so has had limited time with getting the 'dead links' and more advanced reporting in place ... now that he's finally gotten past the honeymoon period, and once he gets things caught up again, he'll be diving back into getting the site finished ... - --On Tuesday, October 16, 2007 22:45:03 +0100 Gerard van Essen wrote: > Just a side note: > > When you click on "platform" or "trends" you get an "URL not found" error. > > Suggestion: > It would be nice to see data from previous months on the website as well. > > Thanks > > Gerard > FreeBSD - Reliable, Flexible and Secure > > > On 10/16/07, Chad Perrin wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 01:38:49AM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: >> > >> > not the most perfect solution, but I've changed the script so that *if* >> it is >> > run with the >> > - -nodelay option (ie. how it runs from /usr/local/etc/rc.d/bsdstats.sh, >> as well >> > as when you install the port the first time), it will only report the >> Operating >> > System, and neither devices or ports, even if configured ... >> > >> > The only time devices / ports will be reported is when run as part of >> monthly >> > ... so, running it on reboot *should* be near invisible now, as >> devices/ports >> > were the ones that took alot report in ... >> >> Thanks much. I appreciate the effort. >> >> -- >> CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] >> MacUser, Nov. 1990: "There comes a time in the history of any project when >> it becomes necessary to shoot the engineers and begin production." >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org >> " >> > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHFU5W4QvfyHIvDvMRAmSeAJ9QbNQxT/wzFYtcAYR4jqXF8UksiQCff89p VaSoVZO6QLvhsmj10L0R4ng= =DNpZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 17 00:19:29 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A4C016A41B for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 00:19:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scrappy@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C0CD13C455 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 00:19:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scrappy@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.187]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64108B47094; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:19:28 -0300 (ADT) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.187]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 75194-02; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:19:22 -0300 (ADT) Received: from fserv.hub.org (blk-137-93-67.eastlink.ca [24.137.93.67]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A092DB47078; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:19:27 -0300 (ADT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (unknown [192.168.1.2]) by fserv.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92EF84BD52; Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:19:31 -0300 (ADT) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:19:15 -0300 From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-ID: X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDstats Statistics for Sept, 2007 ... 12 769 Hosts Reported In X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 00:19:29 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Tuesday, October 16, 2007 22:38:53 +0100 Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: >> From: "Marc G. Fournier" > [...] >> Actually, so far this month, they've gone up 0.3% (and its only middle of >> month) ... it does fluctuate from month to month ... >> > > Just out of curiosity, on what criteria do you clean up your list? Maybe > you're cleaning it up too often, no? Clean up our list? > Clearly bsdstats is reaching stability. But consider that when you have a port > update, you don't know if it was the program which was changed or just the > installer. I've tried to make any 'script changes' result in a version change, while 'installer' changes are a PortRevision ... I just screwed that up by up'ng portrevision when I did the reporting speed up change to the script :( > You have just commited another set of changes. I respect your decision of > commiting the changes. > On the other hand, I'm also not too keen on ports which require user > intervention on install, because of batch installs and upgrades. Actually, the Makefile was long ago extended to *not* be interactive on either BATCH or PATCH_BUILDING installs ... and, after the initial install, unless you've wipe'd out either your /etc/periodic.conf or /etc/rc.cofn files, will never (or should never) ask you any more questions ... the only time that *that* has ever changed was when I added the interactive 'do you want to enable in /etc/rc.conf?' to the installer ... We have tried to cover *most* concerns that ppl have brought up ... > I mean, we all have to do it for such basic things such as xdm or linux > compatibility. If every FreeBSD user is "required" to do such configuration > changes for those basic ports, why not for bsdstats? There are actually other ports that are interactive in nature, and more often then bsdstats ... install postfix sometime, and then upgrade it? Every time you upgrade it, it will ask you if you want to enable it ... > When we, users, see a port changing, we do not know if it is only the install > which changed or the program behaviour which changed. > Certainly the install has changed behaviour, and that is troublesome for > portupgrades done in batch. Why? There has only been one time where a change should have affected portupgrade, and that was when we added the /etc/rc.conf interactive ... being that, it *should* be totally transparent ... > Thank you very much, and I certainly don't want to dictate the behaviour > of bsdstats or its pkg-install script. It was just a complaint, because the > idea is excellent but it did annoy me a little bit at some particular times. > It will still annoy me a little bit because of the yes/no in pkg-install; > maybe its me who should be more criterious before doing my portupgrades... There are only two times it should *ever* have prompted ppl ... on initial *manual* install, and, if they installed before the /etc/rc.conf changes, on a portupgrade after that ... beyond that, it should be more transparent then installing postfix ... If you do find a condition where you are being 'held up' on a portupgrade, do please let me know, as it shouldn't happen ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHFVUD4QvfyHIvDvMRAtL2AJ0Tr3+MjBGL7NG1Ng8SmUSSMKDMrgCg6Bkx 4+Ddun5YMf+8MktqyhY+kHo= =UAOz -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----