From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 02:01:51 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B2FC16A419 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 02:01:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from outbound-mail-69.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-69.bluehost.com [69.89.21.29]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2B39D13C458 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 02:01:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (qmail 21101 invoked by uid 0); 26 Nov 2007 01:35:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box183.bluehost.com) (69.89.25.183) by mailproxy4.bluehost.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2007 01:35:10 -0000 Received: from c-24-9-123-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.9.123.251] helo=demeter.hydra) by box183.bluehost.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1IwSsQ-0007pc-OP for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:35:10 -0700 Received: from demeter.hydra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lAQ1ZjQW029776 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:35:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (from ren@localhost) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id lAQ1ZjO0029775 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:35:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) X-Authentication-Warning: demeter.hydra: ren set sender to perrin@apotheon.com using -f Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:35:45 -0700 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20071126013545.GB29622@demeter.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <200711221711.lAMHB2Go059678@fire.js.berklix.net> <4746DC61.3070409@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4746DC61.3070409@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {737:box183.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.net} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 24.9.123.251 authed with apotheon.com} X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box183.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [737 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - apotheon.com Subject: Re: [alerts@infosecnews.org: [ISN] Top Ten Reasons Why Ubuntu, Is Best for Enterprise Use] X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 02:01:51 -0000 On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 10:57:53AM -0300, Sd??vtaker wrote: > Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > Source available > > If bug fixes or enhancements later needed, can easily > > Pay a consultant to do it, Global Index: > > http://berklix.com/consultants/ > > Can choose Any competing consultant, not dependent on > > just one software vendor who has access to closed source, > > but may not consider it his priority. > :-) > > Security, Peace of mind: > > Code can be read by many, loopholes exposed & fixed, > > not hidden & left open. > Yeap!!! So . . . what exactly is the point of confusion? Those two compound points seem like good enough reasons for using open source software, to me, all by themselves -- at least for some people's needs. > > 16,000 odd packages, mostly free from ports/ many not on MS. > Yes, but you miss some great products sometimes... The one i can > remember now is VMware, they not porting it to BSD only works in windows > and linux, and the linux version got limited functionallity. There's a lot of stuff you can miss in the commercial world, too. Another note: Often, people choose open source software for reasons of idealism. I, for instance, and not a huge fan of software patents and copyright restrictions (which serve as a sort of intellectual prior restraint). -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Marvin Minsky: "It's just incredible that a trillion-synapse computer could actually spend Saturday afternoon watching a football game." From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 15:08:01 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99ED716A418 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:08:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mcmxvii@gmail.com) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.177]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DD3C13C468 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:08:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mcmxvii@gmail.com) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k17so1410065waf for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:07:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=0LNWgpdXiQPOpRFSRlGuigRl33Xhg08qVMFZLhEj8SE=; b=DyKmbfFpxQ5MD1vuDtdSulvTviINlYbCzfkULa55Yawj2AS+9SebtbL6inoAPko+9huPkndwzIOhpGGYfDhP2+XEfd5W7tgdoXo+2hUhLlavgZ6d2+V/p8qMqvHVLpKdSDH4EIMzYRh2Yp6VHIz/AcExVO/51A/lf0ecbWurO/w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=PySe320GVLA/cWT3nzJdUoVSLwm8+OwCBwhPhc6i+OcH5BVteTs8Z02kkkudORvrTAk53/BpSszKhu1rcPOXN6OQWuaVjuT1Dl2BGcXmW3Ui3o+dl6MgC8PgTVo8EionL43UopLFpg3zJI6wNSYSoEnh1YeP2GXoshw+Q1HJr0s= Received: by 10.115.54.1 with SMTP id g1mr746658wak.1196174383485; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:39:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.211.11 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:39:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <9964e6660711270639icb920e0nc2e51d0a14ac7604@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:39:43 +0300 From: "Nico Revin" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20071126013545.GB29622@demeter.hydra> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200711221711.lAMHB2Go059678@fire.js.berklix.net> <4746DC61.3070409@gmail.com> <20071126013545.GB29622@demeter.hydra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: [alerts@infosecnews.org: [ISN] Top Ten Reasons Why Ubuntu, Is Best for Enterprise Use] X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:08:01 -0000 You know... The only thing I can say for sure is that FreeBSD and *buntu are both great systems. But the problem is in management. Why do you think Ubuntu became so popular? Mark sold his business and had a great credit to fire a start-up. So he did. And what had he done first? He bought all of us. Show me a person who DID NOT got ubuntu via ship-it system? It was really for free!!! And when the quantity of ship-it users and the community became really great and the demand in his products grew enough, he began to sell dvd-s. He divided all users into categories. He made the deployment and the support efficient and transparent. His products are like christmas candies. Shipit cd is a huge marketing victory and it helped Mark to popularize Ubuntu and to begin selling it. FreeBSD was the best OS for servers (and not only for servers ;). And it is the best now. But the current market situation is that linux/bsd systems MUST compete with each other. FreeBSD is one of the best platforms (remember MAC OS X?). And it CAN be competitive. Marketing is evil. But without it you can lose the market share, respect and money... The economic model of the open-source projects is very weak. Mark demonstrates that it can be efficient. Oh! Some notes about Mark. He is a public person. He appears regularly in different interviews, magazines, e-magazines. He finds million ways to make people get intrigued. just visit ubuntu.com. well FreeBSD makes some presentations like http://people.freebsd.org/~kris/scaling/7.0%20Preview.pdf which would be good enough if someone knew it exists! if you organize a quiz most people will say smth like "oh! freebsd is still alive?!" I wouldn't like my project to be told about like that!.. -- Best regards, Nico Revin. icq #273780534 http://koshak.blogspot.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 28 06:37:01 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 036F516A420 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:37:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from office@inlibris.at) Received: from easyspace.acw.at (easyspace.acw.at [217.116.177.19]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8772013C478 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:37:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from office@inlibris.at) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by easyspace.acw.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5751E35CBC0 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:16:51 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at easyspace.acw.at Received: from easyspace.acw.at ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (easyspace.acw.at [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6NsuLUYbwq39 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:16:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from 62.116.3.146 (unknown [62.116.3.146]) by easyspace.acw.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15A735CA64 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:13:18 +0100 (CET) From: "Inlibris" To: "freebsd-advocacy" Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:11:42 +0100 Organization: Inlibris MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20071128061318.B15A735CA64@easyspace.acw.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Antique books and manuscripts, off to Dubai X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:37:01 -0000 Yesterday, a dozen heavy trunks with rare books, prints, and manuscripts from the 15th to 20th centuries left Vienna, Austria, for Dubai in the United Arab Emirates. Inlibris Gilhofer Nfg., dealers in rare books and manuscripts, established in 1883 and regular suppliers to major national libraries, universities, and museums worldwide for more than a century, will be the only participating rare book dealer at the inaugural Dubai International Fine Art and Antiques Fair. Our offer will include the most beautiful and valuable illustrated books on natural history (including marine life, falconry, horsemanship, birds, and flowers), history of civilization (including the most comprehensive work on the 17th-century wars), science (including a complete copy Diderot's Encyclopedie, formerly in the possession of Napoleon's son-in-law, and the great classics of medicine and pharmacology), and geography (including a perfect copy of an atlas published in the late 15th century), as well as art and architecture books from five centuries. Furthermore, we will be showing several Arabic manuscripts (including an early 16th-century miniature Koran) and an impressive collection of early Arabic printing (including the first oriental manuscript to be reproduced in facsimile in 1676). Local prints, maps, and historic photos will also be on view during the fair. Our illustrated catalogue describes some of these objects in greater detail. Its digital version may be consulted on http://www.rarebooksandautographs.com/content/english/bestand/auswahlkatalog.php Although the fair will be taking place in mid-december, reservations and orders are already welcome now. Those of you interested in free admission to the fair (opening on the 12th of December at the Dubai Convention Center) or a private meeting with our staff please contact us in advance via e-mail. Kind regards from Vienna, Hugo Wetscherek __________________________________ Antiquariat INLIBRIS, Gilhofer Nfg. GmbH www.rarebooksandautographs.com INLIBRIS Ges.m.b.H. Rathausstrasse 19 A-1010 Wien Tel.: (+43 1) 409 61 90 0 Fax: (+43 1) 409 61 90 9 www.inlibris.at office@inlibris.at From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 28 15:52:57 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94CD316A419 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:52:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from outbound-mail-20.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-20.bluehost.com [69.89.20.235]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 60A9D13C45B for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:52:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (qmail 24746 invoked by uid 0); 28 Nov 2007 15:52:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box183.bluehost.com) (69.89.25.183) by mailproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2007 15:52:56 -0000 Received: from c-24-9-123-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.9.123.251] helo=demeter.hydra) by box183.bluehost.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1IxPDc-0003HE-Jb for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:52:56 -0700 Received: from demeter.hydra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lASFrVps044932 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:53:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (from ren@localhost) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id lASFrVNu044931 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:53:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) X-Authentication-Warning: demeter.hydra: ren set sender to perrin@apotheon.com using -f Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:53:31 -0700 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20071128155331.GA44867@demeter.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <200711221711.lAMHB2Go059678@fire.js.berklix.net> <4746DC61.3070409@gmail.com> <20071126013545.GB29622@demeter.hydra> <9964e6660711270639icb920e0nc2e51d0a14ac7604@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9964e6660711270639icb920e0nc2e51d0a14ac7604@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {737:box183.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.net} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 24.9.123.251 authed with apotheon.com} X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box183.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [737 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - apotheon.com Subject: Re: [alerts@infosecnews.org: [ISN] Top Ten Reasons Why Ubuntu, Is Best for Enterprise Use] X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:52:57 -0000 On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 05:39:43PM +0300, Nico Revin wrote: > You know... The only thing I can say for sure is that FreeBSD and *buntu are > both great systems. But the problem is in management. Why do you think > Ubuntu became so popular? Mark sold his business and had a great credit to > fire a start-up. So he did. > > And what had he done first? He bought all of us. Show me a person who DID > NOT got ubuntu via ship-it system? It was really for free!!! I didn't, actually. It's faster to burn it to CD -- and it didn't take me long to realize that no matter how free it was, it wasn't what I wanted out of my OS. I agree that taking that approach has spurred on adoption rates, though, even if it didn't work on me in particular. > > Marketing is evil. But without it you can lose the market share, respect and > money... The economic model of the open-source projects is very weak. Mark > demonstrates that it can be efficient. I disagree that it's "weak". The problem is that it's competing with legislation and entrenched corporate interests that have a lot of market clout and paid lobbyists fighting against any rapid changes in market realities. Visibility is a pretty handy tool for resisting those influences of course -- and that's what Shuttleworth is bringing to Ubuntu (as you've pretty much pointed out): visibility. None of that or anything related to it means that the "economic model of the open-source projects is very weak," though. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Baltasar Gracian: "A wise man gets more from his enemies than a fool from his friends." From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 29 09:29:09 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B20A16A418 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:29:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@varusonline.com) Received: from rn-out-0102.google.com (rn-out-0910.google.com [64.233.170.186]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5BEA13C469 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:29:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@varusonline.com) Received: by rn-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id e5so1571186rng for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.29.7 with SMTP id c7mr3904827wxc.1196327005369; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:03:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from Serval.local ( [24.153.116.131]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i40sm4807529wxd.2007.11.29.01.03.24 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:03:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <474E80CD.3020803@varusonline.com> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:05:17 -0500 From: Jessica Mahoney Organization: Varus Online User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Laptop] Battery Time X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:29:09 -0000 Thinking about this for a while, I decided to post it. May not be much, but it is something. In July 2007 I acquired a brand new Compaq Presario V6000Z laptop. It came with the "High Capacity 6-Cell Battery" (6,000 mAh battery), an AMD Turion 64 X2 @ 1.8GHz, and I also got the "Imprint Finish" so I could get the FireWire and additional USB ports. For what it is, $1,000 wasn't that bad. It came with Windows Vista Home Basic. This system took about two minutes to boot, and sucked the battery dry in 90 minutes, even with all power-saving settings enabled (eeps!). Then I installed Linux on it. Linux had some serious stability issues, and even with everything I did, it was never all that stable, but it booted in about a minute. Linux did do better with battery time, clocking 2 hours. True, that's not much better, but still. Well, I've been using FreeBSD for my servers, and I have had a few FreeBSD desktops off and on over the years, so I decided to give it a shot. After installing FreeBSD and configuring the kernel/world, and then installing some ports, I noticed something wildly different, so different, that its freaking amazing. FreeBSD boots in a mere fifteen seconds (kernel: 11s; services: 2s; gdm+Xorg: instant; gnome-desktop: 2s). FreeBSD is just as amazing with battery time, as I can now get not just two, but four hours of battery time. Plus, its just as rock-solid-will-keep-running-until-the-sun-blows-up stable as I remember from every other machine I've used as a FreeBSD desktop. Quick recap: Windows Vista: 2 minute boot, 90 minutes of battery Linux: one minute boot, 120 minutes of battery FreeBSD: 15 second boot, 240 minutes of battery FreeBSD is pure awesomeness, made of awesome and win, featuring Power, Performance, Stability, and Reliability. I have also learned (from my laptop) that FreeBSD is also a Green OS, as it causes the hardware to use less power than other systems. ~Jessica From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 29 17:50:43 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 540E216A419 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:50:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from email@phillipgonzalez.com) Received: from mail.ppgnetworksolutions.com (static-206-126-220-70.nconnect.net [206.126.220.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 129F613C465 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:50:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from email@phillipgonzalez.com) Received: from localhost (mail.ppgnetworksolutions.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.ppgnetworksolutions.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 740CD3CE8A9; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:49:25 -0600 (CST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at X-Spam-Score: -4.186 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.186 tagged_above=-10 required=6.6 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.8, AWL=0.213, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ppgnetworksolutions.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ppgnetworksolutions.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1nlnnVExh2p6; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:49:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from [192.168.0.195] (firewall1.localdomain [192.168.0.1]) by mail.ppgnetworksolutions.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07B3A3CE883; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:49:19 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <474E80CD.3020803@varusonline.com> References: <474E80CD.3020803@varusonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <4A8AB67E-B589-4768-A77B-72FAC77F3554@phillipgonzalez.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Phillip Gonzalez Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:50:31 -0600 To: Jessica Mahoney X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Laptop] Battery Time X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:50:43 -0000 That's what I'm talkin bout :-) -phil On Nov 29, 2007, at 3:05 AM, Jessica Mahoney wrote: > Thinking about this for a while, I decided to post it. May not be > much, but it is something. > > In July 2007 I acquired a brand new Compaq Presario V6000Z laptop. > It came with the "High Capacity 6-Cell Battery" (6,000 mAh > battery), an AMD Turion 64 X2 @ 1.8GHz, and I also got the "Imprint > Finish" so I could get the FireWire and additional USB ports. For > what it is, $1,000 wasn't that bad. > > It came with Windows Vista Home Basic. This system took about two > minutes to boot, and sucked the battery dry in 90 minutes, even > with all power-saving settings enabled (eeps!). > > Then I installed Linux on it. Linux had some serious stability > issues, and even with everything I did, it was never all that > stable, but it booted in about a minute. Linux did do better with > battery time, clocking 2 hours. True, that's not much better, but > still. > > Well, I've been using FreeBSD for my servers, and I have had a few > FreeBSD desktops off and on over the years, so I decided to give it > a shot. After installing FreeBSD and configuring the kernel/world, > and then installing some ports, I noticed something wildly > different, so different, that its freaking amazing. FreeBSD boots > in a mere fifteen seconds (kernel: 11s; services: 2s; gdm+Xorg: > instant; gnome-desktop: 2s). FreeBSD is just as amazing with > battery time, as I can now get not just two, but four hours of > battery time. Plus, its just as rock-solid-will-keep-running-until- > the-sun-blows-up stable as I remember from every other machine I've > used as a FreeBSD desktop. > > Quick recap: > Windows Vista: 2 minute boot, 90 minutes of battery > Linux: one minute boot, 120 minutes of battery > FreeBSD: 15 second boot, 240 minutes of battery > > FreeBSD is pure awesomeness, made of awesome and win, featuring > Power, Performance, Stability, and Reliability. I have also > learned (from my laptop) that FreeBSD is also a Green OS, as it > causes the hardware to use less power than other systems. > > > ~Jessica > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy- > unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 29 18:44:17 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9213316A418 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:44:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@varusonline.com) Received: from rn-out-0102.google.com (rn-out-0910.google.com [64.233.170.184]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4846A13C4F5 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:44:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@varusonline.com) Received: by rn-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id e5so1788655rng for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 10:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.41.16 with SMTP id o16mr12205424ano.1196361856389; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 10:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from Serval.local ( [24.153.116.131]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b3sm7227436ana.2007.11.29.10.44.15 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 29 Nov 2007 10:44:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <474F08F2.1050506@varusonline.com> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 13:46:10 -0500 From: Jessica Mahoney Organization: Varus Online User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alaksiej C , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <474E80CD.3020803@varusonline.com> <5709ce310711290752i42bcb91ey5555c84aef00d628@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5709ce310711290752i42bcb91ey5555c84aef00d628@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Re: [Laptop] Battery Time X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:44:17 -0000 Alaksiej, I used Kubuntu 7.04 for the linux system. For FreeBSD, I had to use FreeBSD 7.0, since FreeBSD 6.2-R could not boot (no matter what I did, it just wouldn't work). As for the laptop's hardware, it came with a Broadcom BCM4321AG (14e4:4328) Mini-PCIe card, which I removed since it doesn't work at all in FreeBSD and constantly dropped the connection in Linux. For wireless, I'm now using a Linksys WUSBF54G, which requires the zyd(4) module. Other than that, the machine is all OEM. Why FreeBSD 6.2-R would not work: Normal boot: hardlock on attach of hard drive (ad4) ACPI Disabled: hardlock on attach of network (nfe0) ACPI and nfe disabled: hardlock on attach of hard drive (ad4) FreeBSD 6.2-R does not seem to like the nVidia MCP51 Serial ATA controller, but FreeBSD 7.0 is just fine. Started with FreeBSD 7.0-CURRENT 200709 and now have 7.0-BETA3. Must use GRUB to load the loader (but the CD boots fine). ~Jessica Alaksiej C wrote: > Thanks Jessica, it's interesting. Would you please attach some details > (linux distro, FreeBSD version, out-of-the-box or tweaked)? I will you > use it to persuade my linux-loving friend :) > > Thank you in advance. > > On 11/29/07, *Jessica Mahoney* > wrote: > > Thinking about this for a while, I decided to post it. May not be > much, > but it is something. > > In July 2007 I acquired a brand new Compaq Presario V6000Z laptop. It > came with the "High Capacity 6-Cell Battery" (6,000 mAh battery), > an AMD > Turion 64 X2 @ 1.8GHz, and I also got the "Imprint Finish" so I could > get the FireWire and additional USB ports. For what it is, $1,000 > wasn't that bad. > > It came with Windows Vista Home Basic. This system took about two > minutes to boot, and sucked the battery dry in 90 minutes, even > with all > power-saving settings enabled (eeps!). > > Then I installed Linux on it. Linux had some serious stability > issues, > and even with everything I did, it was never all that stable, but it > booted in about a minute. Linux did do better with battery time, > clocking 2 hours. True, that's not much better, but still. > > Well, I've been using FreeBSD for my servers, and I have had a few > FreeBSD desktops off and on over the years, so I decided to give it a > shot. After installing FreeBSD and configuring the kernel/world, and > then installing some ports, I noticed something wildly different, so > different, that its freaking amazing. FreeBSD boots in a mere fifteen > seconds (kernel: 11s; services: 2s; gdm+Xorg: instant; gnome-desktop: > 2s). FreeBSD is just as amazing with battery time, as I can now > get not > just two, but four hours of battery time. Plus, its just as > rock-solid-will-keep-running-until-the-sun-blows-up stable as I > remember > from every other machine I've used as a FreeBSD desktop. > > Quick recap: > Windows Vista: 2 minute boot, 90 minutes of battery > Linux: one minute boot, 120 minutes of battery > FreeBSD: 15 second boot, 240 minutes of battery > > FreeBSD is pure awesomeness, made of awesome and win, featuring Power, > Performance, Stability, and Reliability. I have also learned (from my > laptop) that FreeBSD is also a Green OS, as it causes the hardware to > use less power than other systems. > > > ~Jessica > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org > " > > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 29 23:04:12 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38F4116A417 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:04:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4BC413C458 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:04:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from js.berklix.net (p549A4C66.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.76.102]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lATN487P047526; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:04:09 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lATN5BIE017418; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 00:05:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost.js.berklix.net [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lATN53Ko044982; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 00:05:03 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <200711292305.lATN53Ko044982@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Jessica Mahoney In-reply-to: <474E80CD.3020803@varusonline.com> References: <474E80CD.3020803@varusonline.com> Comments: In-reply-to Jessica Mahoney message dated "Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:05:17 -0500." Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 00:05:03 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Laptop] Battery Time X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:04:12 -0000 > Performance, Stability, and Reliability. I have also learned (from my > laptop) that FreeBSD is also a Green OS, as it causes the hardware to > use less power than other systems. If anyone has right contacts in eg HP/Compaq &/or US EPA (Environmental Protection Agency ?) & other national agencies that compile lists of preferred hardware for government agency acquisition, .... ? We could use that edge to get some good PR & HP/Compaq might get a lot of government sales so might be keen to help - if anyone knows right address so an approach isn't lost in spam. -- Julian Stacey. Munich Computer Consultant, BSD Unix C Linux. http://berklix.com Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. Dump cigs 4 snuff. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 30 14:38:56 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C02916A468 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:38:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tony@tntpro.net) Received: from ms-smtp-04.nyroc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.nyroc.rr.com [24.24.2.58]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A85A813C47E for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:38:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tony@tntpro.net) Received: from tntpro.com (cpe-204-210-86-53.maine.res.rr.com [204.210.86.53]) by ms-smtp-04.nyroc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lAU1mh45012989; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:48:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from outkast (outkast.tntpro.com [192.168.0.10]) by tntpro.com (8.13.8/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lAU1mOhU022420; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:48:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from tony@tntpro.net) From: "Tony" To: "'Julian H. Stacey'" , "'Jessica Mahoney'" Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:48:48 -0500 Message-ID: <002201c832f3$26e5b850$f300a8c0@outkast> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-reply-to: <200711292305.lATN53Ko044982@fire.js.berklix.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: [Laptop] Battery Time X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:38:56 -0000 Has anyone else noticed that type of improvement in laptop run times between Vista and Freebsd? -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Julian H. Stacey Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:05 PM To: Jessica Mahoney Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Laptop] Battery Time > Performance, Stability, and Reliability. I have also learned (from my > laptop) that FreeBSD is also a Green OS, as it causes the hardware to > use less power than other systems. If anyone has right contacts in eg HP/Compaq &/or US EPA (Environmental Protection Agency ?) & other national agencies that compile lists of preferred hardware for government agency acquisition, .... ? We could use that edge to get some good PR & HP/Compaq might get a lot of government sales so might be keen to help - if anyone knows right address so an approach isn't lost in spam. -- Julian Stacey. Munich Computer Consultant, BSD Unix C Linux. http://berklix.com Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. Dump cigs 4 snuff. _______________________________________________ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 1 16:50:31 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9E1B16A418 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:50:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@bitfreak.org) Received: from mail.twinthornes.com (mail.twinthornes.com [65.75.198.147]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C87DA13C45B for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:50:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@bitfreak.org) Received: from [10.9.70.109] (pool-71-117-232-141.ptldor.fios.verizon.net [71.117.232.141]) by mail.twinthornes.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AA2AA1; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:27:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47518B5D.1040105@bitfreak.org> Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 08:27:09 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jessica Mahoney References: <474E80CD.3020803@varusonline.com> In-Reply-To: <474E80CD.3020803@varusonline.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Laptop] Battery Time X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 16:50:32 -0000 Jessica Mahoney wrote: > Quick recap: > Windows Vista: 2 minute boot, 90 minutes of battery What tuning did you do on Vista prior to your measurements? A stock Vista install never actually goes idle, so it eats the battery life. With FreeBSD if you run X with an alpha-blending WM and a background process to continually keep the CPU 10-20% loaded and the disk active, you also get poor battery life. Vista, when properly tuned, will get better battery life than Vista because it can also turn off devices to save power. FreeBSD lacks the ability to power down USB, wireless and wired net devices, CD/DVD drives, etc. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 1 18:06:56 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BED6A16A419 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 18:06:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@varusonline.com) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.179]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96ED313C45B for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 18:06:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@varusonline.com) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k17so3909880waf for ; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 10:06:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.176.1 with SMTP id y1mr1716491wae.1196532415640; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 10:06:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from Serval.local ( [24.153.116.131]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q34sm6731331wrq.2007.12.01.10.06.53 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 01 Dec 2007 10:06:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4751A309.3040206@varusonline.com> Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 13:08:09 -0500 From: Jessica Mahoney Organization: Varus Online User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Pilgrim References: <474E80CD.3020803@varusonline.com> <47518B5D.1040105@bitfreak.org> In-Reply-To: <47518B5D.1040105@bitfreak.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Laptop] Battery Time X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 18:06:56 -0000 Darren Pilgrim wrote: > Jessica Mahoney wrote: >> Quick recap: >> Windows Vista: 2 minute boot, 90 minutes of battery > > What tuning did you do on Vista prior to your measurements? A stock > Vista install never actually goes idle, so it eats the battery life. > > With FreeBSD if you run X with an alpha-blending WM and a background > process to continually keep the CPU 10-20% loaded and the disk active, > you also get poor battery life. > > Vista, when properly tuned, will get better battery life than Vista > because it can also turn off devices to save power. FreeBSD lacks the > ability to power down USB, wireless and wired net devices, CD/DVD > drives, etc. > I had enabled everything in the Power Management panel in Vista (six dots for Power Saving, no dots for Performance), and had the flat panel at its dimmest setting. With FreeBSD, I had the panel at its dimmest setting, average CPU load 2-5%, and had the CPU running at 800MHz. I have no idea what the CPU clock was while running Vista, since there doesn't seem to be a CPU clock monitor in Vista.