From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 24 09:15:48 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D220E106564A for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 09:15:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ady@ady.ro) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.175]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A45ED8FC1B for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 09:15:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ady@ady.ro) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so1061395wfg.7 for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 02:15:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.143.12.19 with SMTP id p19mr1089655wfi.171.1219567628439; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 01:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.80.3 with HTTP; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 01:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <78cb3d3f0808240147m3bc941adpa565dff67e870c89@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 10:47:08 +0200 From: "Adrian Penisoara" Sender: ady@ady.ro To: "Alexander Churanov" In-Reply-To: <3cb459ed0808221700w335b0906g6901d8b8bec4dad9@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <3cb459ed0808221700w335b0906g6901d8b8bec4dad9@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: c7a55fc787f5ca68 Cc: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unicode-based FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 09:15:48 -0000 Hi, On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 2:00 AM, Alexander Churanov wrote: > Hi folks! > > I am interested in FreeBSD internationalization and unicode support. I > already spent some time examining the source of syscons. I think that > syscons is the main problem in bringing full UTF-8 support to FreeBSD out of > box. It seems that I am ready with the solution. That's why I am writing to > this list. > > I have following questions: > > 0) Is moving to UTF-8 from 8-bit codepages desired for FreeBSD? I can't pronounce on this but, since the majority of modern OS'es have Unicode support in the console, I believe it's a good thing to have. > > 1) Is unicode support in character-mode (I mean plain tty, not Xorg) FreeBSD > human interface alreay implemented? Last time I checked, no. > > 2) Is somebody working on that? > > 3) What is the correct branch to check out source code? From what > repository? Usually stuff gets imported into the development tree (HEAD, also known as -CURRENT) then, if proven stable, is ported back to the -STABLE branch. SVN repository is available on http://svn.freebsd.org/base/ , but developers may get access to Perforce (P4) development branches for long running projects. > > 4) What is the process of submitting changes? Get in touch with a FreeBSD committer. For starters I think you could engage someone on the freebsd-hackers list. Regards, Adrian. From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 24 13:52:52 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 035711065682 for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:52:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk) Received: from ptb-relay01.plus.net (ptb-relay01.plus.net [212.159.14.145]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB0578FC12 for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:52:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk) Received: from [81.174.208.153] (helo=81-174-208-153.pth-as1.dial.plus.net) by ptb-relay01.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KXFTd-0000pB-7e for freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 14:17:53 +0100 From: Frank To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 14:15:31 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 20070904.708012) References: <3cb459ed0808221700w335b0906g6901d8b8bec4dad9@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3cb459ed0808221700w335b0906g6901d8b8bec4dad9@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200808241415.31812.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Plusnet-Relay: 4484cafc719585d26e276e12c56bf0ce Subject: Re: Unicode-based FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:52:52 -0000 Even if you use an English locale with occasional accented letters, you might want ISO-8859-1 for legacy compatibility. Also I multiboot, sharing a Data Partition with other Unix flavours using ISO-8859-1. And I need to import previous tracks during Multisession CD/DVD Archive/Backup operations. And naturally I have legacy documents in ISO-8859-1, which corresponds to my old Windows Codepage 1252. I've heard that Japanese and Chinese users prefer their own coding systems, because the Unicode Character Set in these languages is limited. Korean also has Combining Characters, and UTF-8 comes in 3 different Levels depending on its ability to cope with this. Maybe you need some contacts in other countries. Faictz Ce Que Vouldras: Frank Mitchell On Saturday 23 August 2008 01:00:28 Alexander Churanov wrote: > > I am interested in FreeBSD internationalization and unicode support. I > already spent some time examining the source of syscons. I think that > syscons is the main problem in bringing full UTF-8 support to FreeBSD out > of box. It seems that I am ready with the solution. That's why I am writing > to this list. > > 0) Is moving to UTF-8 from 8-bit codepages desired for FreeBSD? > From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 24 20:12:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D381106566C for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:12:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tzhuan@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.155]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF6848FC14 for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:12:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tzhuan@gmail.com) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so1186435fgb.35 for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:12:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=2cz5olmQ079e336uVzfNJ26pn+XuEemt3bzg5ktqeSk=; b=VVGXFif+R4qBaZBGwjAdpPrARHdrUsNuTGT2gT0ckuiLtDgp5lEqijxBgmwE/uVBNK tDg4js1k4WNYgTfDwGOdN0kKsIb7GaHS6+lNpApYHQbg2P8Db+eKDO7x2oMiupkpMVrP txbzIydtrpc7G2tR6mSXYbcUOglMUi7veCbgs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=xpw3cTAgaA3vx8ZAWtp1WlavD/m4c8FbeRxC4COSdm3f0O336pccCU9tZbUBNWUx09 9O+tGhq3Qvk9WGt8J5zAaGfTlCH6LwbLIm5bXG9QeGYffNvVjqSmDfoQb5f0o/zXFiZK DXWYx4tK11Wto/8ameNJ9QEFcWjWOkBnRsu3Y= Received: by 10.86.59.18 with SMTP id h18mr2744715fga.4.1219606740247; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 12:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.3.2 with HTTP; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 12:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6a7033710808241239p1cbdc7adwd4f87814b428b10b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 03:39:00 +0800 From: "Tz-Huan Huang" Sender: tzhuan@gmail.com To: Frank In-Reply-To: <200808241415.31812.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <3cb459ed0808221700w335b0906g6901d8b8bec4dad9@mail.gmail.com> <200808241415.31812.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 01f8df7b51d19aa2 Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unicode-based FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:12:17 -0000 On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Frank wrote: > I've heard that Japanese and Chinese users prefer their own coding systems, > because the Unicode Character Set in these languages is limited. Korean also > has Combining Characters, and UTF-8 comes in 3 different Levels depending on > its ability to cope with this. Maybe you need some contacts in other > countries. This is not true -- at least for Chinese. I'm a Chinese living in Taiwan and I am probably sure that Unicode is larger than any other Chinese character sets (including traditional and simplified Chinese). The UTF-8 support in FreeBSD/Xorg is good enough for me. I can read/type all Unicode 4.0 characters (including CJKV extension A/B) in Firefox or any gtk/qt programs if I have the needed font; I can produce documents with any Unicode characters by LaTeX+CJK package. It's much better than MS IE and Word because IE and Word only support Unicode 2.0 (or maybe 3.0, I'm not so sure). There are two reasons to use any character sets other than UTF-8: 1. compatibility for old programs/services or other OS. 2. the old man wrote the document when Unicode was not so popular and newbies read the old document. UTF-8 is more and more popular in Chinese, at least in Taiwan. Almost everything works well in my daily jobs (of course under the X). The major missing part is the kiconv UTF-8 support -- currently the kiconv doesn't support more than two bytes character conversion so there is no UTF-8 support for Chinese (most Chinese characters are 3-byte or more). I should mount msdosfs/cd9660 in zh_TW.Big5 and convert the filename to UTF-8 by lint or screen. IMHO, If I need Chinese support, I'll go into X. I have no reason to use Chinese under console even if I can read/type in Chinese. I prefer Firefox rather than w3m or links. :-) Regards, Tz-Huan From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 25 02:59:01 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7A57106567D for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 02:59:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexanderchuranov@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CCC48FC08 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 02:59:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexanderchuranov@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h3so749442nfh.33 for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:58:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=Hd/45f+ooIFUDeWPLpBHWkkIMRG11egWGSE31nkQHPY=; b=qnTbIGmzEOwmU/qgygmaYoIBx7EXHNSXTqrzo8Z7mXFNFoOQquHt9yjHyDUjkmUor9 jmtnd6jTKO1esgpDlhPsXr/y+KKx/C4+iml3KAZ1ZNtJQhHoVlNr2Kr8eUUQeYYZw87Z yfn4wM74S331ub54aOUf+mfse9TSmoo0rftA8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=c2CXYkIVKmO8q+1t/pXBGsqOx0IN2p/Xj4juvBvc9yyaLW8DOP0tYvpGzjGYEDR5xG aD6ywtkdh6Al7zUifvz3+ODKIqgBHnWUd2KM54SpzagOIdK3Ov6++yBT1hPZCn1mo8am ss7MzNL9DgEs5c7RYh3EWUxmXWkkkdNL9w5Ts= Received: by 10.210.72.14 with SMTP id u14mr5857740eba.177.1219633139334; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:58:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.130.15 with HTTP; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:58:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3cb459ed0808241958v552eafejf7841f0f9993928e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 06:58:59 +0400 From: "Alexander Churanov" To: "Tz-Huan Huang" In-Reply-To: <6a7033710808241239p1cbdc7adwd4f87814b428b10b@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3cb459ed0808221700w335b0906g6901d8b8bec4dad9@mail.gmail.com> <200808241415.31812.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> <6a7033710808241239p1cbdc7adwd4f87814b428b10b@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unicode-based FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 02:59:01 -0000 2008/8/24 Tz-Huan Huang > I'm a Chinese living in Taiwan and I am probably sure that Unicode is > larger > than any other Chinese character sets (including traditional and simplified > Chinese). The UTF-8 support in FreeBSD/Xorg is good enough for me. > I can read/type all Unicode 4.0 characters (including CJKV extension A/B) > in Firefox or any gtk/qt programs if I have the needed font; I can produce > documents with any Unicode characters by LaTeX+CJK package. > It's much better than MS IE and Word because IE and Word only support > Unicode 2.0 (or maybe 3.0, I'm not so sure). > > There are two reasons to use any character sets other than UTF-8: > 1. compatibility for old programs/services or other OS. > 2. the old man wrote the document when Unicode was not so popular and > newbies read the old document. > > UTF-8 is more and more popular in Chinese, at least in Taiwan. > Almost everything works well in my daily jobs (of course under the X). > The major missing part is the kiconv UTF-8 support -- currently the kiconv > doesn't support more than two bytes character conversion so there > is no UTF-8 support for Chinese (most Chinese characters are 3-byte or > more). I should mount msdosfs/cd9660 in zh_TW.Big5 and convert the > filename to UTF-8 by lint or screen. > > IMHO, If I need Chinese support, I'll go into X. I have no reason to use > Chinese under console even if I can read/type in Chinese. I prefer Firefox > rather than w3m or links. :-) > > Regards, > Tz-Huan > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Tz-Huan, Working with Chinese text is the hard part of my solution (described in full in freebsd-current@freebsd.org). In brief it's about moving FreeBSD to UTF-8 completely and making syscons map UTF-8 to selected 8-bit charset for displaying (a failsafe solution). It seems that this makes syscons somewhat more usable for some people, but not for from East Asia, am I right? I was thinking of how to make working with Chinese filenames possible under syscons, but the help of a native speaker/writer would help much, because I know only basic facts about that matter. I see two alternatives of displaying unicode code points that do not fit into selected 8-bit display charset: 1) Substituting with some character, like '?'. This is very affordable solutiuon, but makes inconvenient working with files having names that do not fit into selected charset. 2) Substituting with encoded code point value like "#1234;". This is more complex solutuon, if correct baskspacing and things like that are required. I am not ready to implement it. In any case, it would be nice to have some "magic" implemented: if copying a text with substitued code points and then pasting it would case the original UTF-8 sequence to be inserted. For all folks I'd like to explain again that I'm not discussing correct rendering of non-latin scripts. It's not possible to render Devanagari in character mode. And approach that Linux console takes is partial. The cost of full solution is like X, freetype, freebidi and so on. Tz-Huan, could you comment on the proposed solution? From your point of view, are proposed changes in syscons useful? Again, this does not affect X, Firefox, etc, but would make possible to have the whole system using UTF-8 out of box. Alexander Churanov From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 26 02:04:39 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200801065674 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:04:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tzhuan@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.152]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E998FC16 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:04:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tzhuan@gmail.com) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so1578930fgb.35 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:04:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=atDwgqJcQ/YsbGg+uWpL0bDnCo+arT19iWB0uGPN4/w=; b=Cf0QqzVxFJKClzV9gTXE13tgugGgif307Vl/2SnhUwrQ/Y+v81DARQouOkx9vHT8j6 GEE7+ebvH8faritY53wK1W55Sad90htzyo3Ais0k9FJI4EUT/9r37Q1luIE6ey70Qlkc kY9JT/kS/C1IohDA+R/ZP4Bz9UOgQMq6VVaPo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=bXde2c+vCEDmNjHnDqOaEvJTf+SBYL9hRJp8is6BEPYk1yBGXH/kWyi6pmn5RnZ2ua pO2OpatyDuZHg9Lo5sASV49+Zknb39S+eoj7dopc9gipvw1IOehciYOSnv4soYH+12Mi ngFs1P6DRHe3gtFYv2GTr6XR+742LlOWHDOgo= Received: by 10.86.93.19 with SMTP id q19mr1152775fgb.76.1219716277296; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.3.2 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6a7033710808251904t37df0733s91fd7eb31beae76f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:04:37 +0800 From: "Tz-Huan Huang" Sender: tzhuan@gmail.com To: "Alexander Churanov" In-Reply-To: <3cb459ed0808241958v552eafejf7841f0f9993928e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <3cb459ed0808221700w335b0906g6901d8b8bec4dad9@mail.gmail.com> <200808241415.31812.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> <6a7033710808241239p1cbdc7adwd4f87814b428b10b@mail.gmail.com> <3cb459ed0808241958v552eafejf7841f0f9993928e@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 00207495a842a65a Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unicode-based FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:04:39 -0000 Hi, > Tz-Huan, > > Working with Chinese text is the hard part of my solution (described in full > in freebsd-current@freebsd.org). In brief it's about moving FreeBSD to UTF-8 > completely and making syscons map UTF-8 to selected 8-bit charset for > displaying (a failsafe solution). It seems that this makes syscons somewhat > more usable for some people, but not for from East Asia, am I right? Agree. > I was thinking of how to make working with Chinese filenames possible under > syscons, but the help of a native speaker/writer would help much, because I > know only basic facts about that matter. > > I see two alternatives of displaying unicode code points that do not fit > into selected 8-bit display charset: > > 1) Substituting with some character, like '?'. This is very affordable > solutiuon, but makes inconvenient working with files having names that do > not fit into selected charset. > > 2) Substituting with encoded code point value like "#1234;". This is more > complex solutuon, if correct baskspacing and things like that are required. > I am not ready to implement it. IMHO, both solutions are interesting but they might be not so useful for Chinese users. The current syscons will display the Chinese filename byte by byte, so a Chinese character will be displayed as a sequence of 8-bit ASCII characters. When I see that I just know ``oh, that's a file with Chinese filename'', I don't want to recognize which characters it is because there are thousands of different Chinese characters. In this case, if I see ``???'' or ``#1234#3456'', I still cannot recognize the characters if I have no other computer with desktop environment like X or MS Windows. So, whether the Chinese character is displayed as a sequence of 8-bit ASCII, as '?' or as '#xxxx', they are all probably the same for me. > In any case, it would be nice to have some "magic" implemented: if copying > a text with substitued code points and then pasting it would case the > original UTF-8 sequence to be inserted. Yes it's nice, but I think the chance to copy/paste the text of a Chinese filename in syscons is less. The feature might be not easy to implement and you might waste too many time to implement a feature that is used in very less frequency. Of course that's my case, this feature might be very useful for others or other language. :-) Regards, Tz-Huan From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 27 20:15:56 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 416221065673 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:15:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lorenl@north-winds.org) Received: from hosea.tallye.com (unknown [IPv6:2002:d863:c74e::104]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DB108FC19 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:15:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lorenl@north-winds.org) Received: from [IPv6:2002:d863:c74e:0:219:d1ff:fe5c:99c] (habakkuk.aloha.tallye.com [IPv6:2002:d863:c74e:0:219:d1ff:fe5c:99c]) (authenticated bits=0) by hosea.tallye.com (8.14.1/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m7RKFr1U005638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:15:53 -0700 Authentication-Results: hosea.tallye.com from=lorenl@north-winds.org; sender-id=fail (NotPermitted); spf=fail (NotPermitted) X-SenderID: Sendmail Sender-ID Filter v0.2.14 hosea.tallye.com m7RKFr1U005638 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=main; d=north-winds.org; c=nofws; q=dns; h=subject:from:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date: message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:x-greylist:received-spf: x-virus-scanned:x-virus-status; b=liB8toZweS9i5tiG6nXvNa4XG1NHQMxMQR9Bsgv/cNevWW83DyOEumgJpL73zIlE+ KSG6epjJWSTYNVT8jIVUSZAsXma4OlsyENVWCtHd8E5+BgPVIgmi1bLtUcB10jh From: "Loren M. Lang" To: Alexander Churanov In-Reply-To: <3cb459ed0808221700w335b0906g6901d8b8bec4dad9@mail.gmail.com> References: <3cb459ed0808221700w335b0906g6901d8b8bec4dad9@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-7CGkbxkHvJAXo4mK/kDD" Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:15:52 -0700 Message-Id: <1219868153.6962.37.camel@habakkuk.aloha.tallye.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (hosea.tallye.com [IPv6:2002:d863:c74e::2]); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (hosea.tallye.com: is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.92, clamav-milter version 0.92 on hosea.tallye.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unicode-based FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:15:56 -0000 --=-7CGkbxkHvJAXo4mK/kDD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 2008-08-23 at 04:00 +0400, Alexander Churanov wrote: > Hi folks! >=20 > I am interested in FreeBSD internationalization and unicode support. I > already spent some time examining the source of syscons. I think that > syscons is the main problem in bringing full UTF-8 support to FreeBSD out= of > box. It seems that I am ready with the solution. That's why I am writing = to > this list. >=20 > I have following questions: >=20 > 0) Is moving to UTF-8 from 8-bit codepages desired for FreeBSD? I would assume that the answer is "most definetly," but that's just my assumption. >=20 > 1) Is unicode support in character-mode (I mean plain tty, not Xorg) Free= BSD > human interface alreay implemented? There are several levels I can see Unicode support being improved in FreeBSD. First of all, Text-based Unicode applications do work using a Pseudo TTY such as via SSH from another machine or inside an X Terminal. And, of course, GUI applications in Xorg have Unicode support. Unicode applications that are on the console (aka syscons) cannot use anything outside of 7-bit US ASCII due to assumptions syscons. Syscons assumes a plain single byte 8-bit character set and that there is a one-to-one mapping from a byte value to a character in the VGA font. This also means that syscons cannot utilize the full 256 font palette like DOS could. Syscons will need to be rewritten to interpret UTF-8 sequences and store them internally, probably using UTF-16 or UTF-32 for efficiency in lookups. It will also need a more complex translator for character to font glyphs ideally supporting a many to one table so that combining characters and similar characters like =C3=9F (German SS) and =CE= =B2 (Greek Beta) can be shown with the same glyph on the console. The current font format used by syscons is effectively a raw dump of the font with no header information at all. The font size (8x8, 8x14, 8x16) is determined by the file size which only works if it's a full 256 character font. I recommend using .psf font used by the Linux Console as it is a much more feature complete format with full support for the previously mentions Unicode character to font glyph mappings. The second area that FreeBSD's Unicode needs improving is in the TTY driver itself. When the TTY driver is in canonical mode, it is the kernel that handles how backspace and other simple editing functions work. Currently, it does not understand UTF-8 and has a similar assumption of 8-bit character. This does not effect applications that use the TTY in raw mode such as libreadline based applications like bash or (n)curses/slang based applications. Simpler applications like the basic bourne shell (sh) and applications that don't offer an interface like grep, awk, sed when reading from the TTY cannot handle backspace. This affects all TTY applications on FreeBSD, in or out of X. The third area that FreeBSD might need some improvement is in libc. I am less familiar with this area so my information may be incorrect. Basic locale and Unicode support exists in libc, but more advanced functionality like character classes and collating needs work. The commands mklocale and colldef are used to create the appropriate binary data files from source and, if I remember correctly, used a format which is too simplified to fully support a modern Unicode specification. >=20 > 2) Is somebody working on that? >=20 > 3) What is the correct branch to check out source code? From what > repository? >=20 > 4) What is the process of submitting changes? >=20 > Alexander Churanov > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-i18n > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-i18n-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --=20 Loren M. Lang lorenl@north-winds.org http://www.north-winds.org/ Public Key: ftp://ftp.north-winds.org/pub/lorenl_pubkey.asc Fingerprint: 10A0 7AE2 DAF5 4780 888A 3FA4 DCEE BB39 7654 DE5B --=-7CGkbxkHvJAXo4mK/kDD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBItbX43O67OXZU3lsRAo27AJ44Mk0Zcdyh6cBDj+PS8Bw8RU0HcgCcDsGZ 7o53Fx5mQX1Ro43K5aYvm6A= =/5D7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-7CGkbxkHvJAXo4mK/kDD-- From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 28 01:00:15 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 962991065678 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:00:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: from mail.geek.sh (decoder.geek.sh [196.36.198.81]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF4218FC0C for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:00:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: by mail.geek.sh (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D033E24D22; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:34:26 +0200 (SAST) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:34:26 +0200 From: Aragon Gouveia To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080828003426.GB57611@phat.za.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.10-RELEASE-p2 i386 Subject: Adding or editing a locale X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:00:15 -0000 Hi, I was wondering what is involved in adding a new system locale, or editing an existing locale? I've been poking around and saw mklocale(1) and colldef(1) for compiling LC_CTYPE and LC_COLLATE sources, but I can't figure out how to compile the remaining 3 categories' source files? As well, I can't find documentation on the format of the remaining 3 source files? Thanks, Aragon From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 28 19:26:25 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419491065680 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:26:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lichave@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.155]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C09B48FC18 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:26:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lichave@gmail.com) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so372982fgb.35 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:26:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=DhQCOPzPzEF3pBH0+A0G+FPsUVoSGndt5Mb/X37ZS30=; b=XZVppEwk1Q/6YsU4Jpoc51dHNWXT99+nOg9HCZxKb/DL2RWiVMOqi2J+Okb/rWk/oq x6RY2yIfmG0UkD1EHliCYaucfz3NVSuula53uilv8m1nFGJcWU0s5b7GoRP0n7lY0iYB 0TMLzbnjSenXuc9KUarS5bHtmaptrvaiNTLO4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=B/CRX1BN/Xi8HdQzmG5BW8mtoqJQU3TehgBltkPxjk1aGolGxyvv7vLp/PlDA8/3Sd 0zClf9zNrmHk8nDZPPjX5Eoji9m1up7gFKMou3y9EBDHjEB1dCaw+m3zkDZYJKQ9FiYx Hi88uA83hun3AkUgguRDWZmwpeVHe9TSqtWm8= Received: by 10.180.207.7 with SMTP id e7mr2719210bkg.18.1219950664329; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.240.4 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <716a8d5f0808281211s73f753bs557b3ac4446410ed@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:11:04 +0200 From: "Konrad Jankowski" To: "Aragon Gouveia" In-Reply-To: <20080828003426.GB57611@phat.za.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20080828003426.GB57611@phat.za.net> Cc: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding or editing a locale X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:26:25 -0000 On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Aragon Gouveia wrote: > Hi, > > I was wondering what is involved in adding a new system locale, or editing > an existing locale? > > I've been poking around and saw mklocale(1) and colldef(1) for compiling > LC_CTYPE and LC_COLLATE sources, but I can't figure out how to compile the > remaining 3 categories' source files? As well, I can't find documentation on > the format of the remaining 3 source files? > > Hi. The format of the rest is textual - doesn't need compilation. I don't know of any documentation for it apart of libc sources. From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 28 19:26:54 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5314E10656FA for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:26:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: from mail.geek.sh (decoder.geek.sh [196.36.198.81]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5AF48FC0C for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:26:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: by mail.geek.sh (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2A68324D22; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:26:52 +0200 (SAST) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:26:52 +0200 From: Aragon Gouveia To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080828192652.GB40752@phat.za.net> References: <20080828003426.GB57611@phat.za.net> <716a8d5f0808281211s73f753bs557b3ac4446410ed@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <716a8d5f0808281211s73f753bs557b3ac4446410ed@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.10-RELEASE-p2 i386 Subject: Re: Adding or editing a locale X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:26:54 -0000 | By Konrad Jankowski | [ 2008-08-28 21:11 +0200 ] > > I've been poking around and saw mklocale(1) and colldef(1) for compiling > > LC_CTYPE and LC_COLLATE sources, but I can't figure out how to compile the > > remaining 3 categories' source files? As well, I can't find documentation on > > the format of the remaining 3 source files? > > Hi. > The format of the rest is textual - doesn't need compilation. > I don't know of any documentation for it apart of libc sources. So they are! I didn't even think to look. Thanks. I'd like to create a locale and might take the effort of figuring out the formats from libc source. I'll try write some kind of documentation up on it all if I get the time. A single man page on this would be helpful to others in future I'm sure... Thanks, Aragon From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 28 19:42:11 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98381106564A for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:42:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: from mail.geek.sh (decoder.geek.sh [196.36.198.81]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35A3D8FC26 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:42:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: by mail.geek.sh (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A9D9B24D22; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:42:09 +0200 (SAST) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:42:09 +0200 From: Aragon Gouveia To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080828194209.GA44154@phat.za.net> References: <20080828003426.GB57611@phat.za.net> <716a8d5f0808281211s73f753bs557b3ac4446410ed@mail.gmail.com> <20080828192652.GB40752@phat.za.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080828192652.GB40752@phat.za.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.10-RELEASE-p2 i386 Subject: Re: Adding or editing a locale X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:42:11 -0000 | By Aragon Gouveia | [ 2008-08-28 21:29 +0200 ] > I'd like to create a locale and might take the effort of figuring out the formats > from libc source. I'll try write some kind of documentation up on it all if I > get the time. A single man page on this would be helpful to others in future I'm > sure... Ok, I just jumped into LC_TIME and timelocal.* - it was a lot easier than I thought it'd be. Cool! I'm from South Africa. I'd like to submit an en_ZA and a fix to the existing af_ZA (which has errors). Can I just submit a diff via the PR system? Thanks, Aragon From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 29 08:57:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB98E1065676 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:57:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lichave@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.152]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EC408FC16 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:57:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lichave@gmail.com) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so531661fgb.35 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 01:57:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=KImDvF6FQYntQsnanvvJElKbMDyIlLwazI1nCJTT20g=; b=b+agM4xYx1bIR5WMrUK54YUPUZgr559SP8vifablBy92wAm+1k0a5PvTzhoJRvcdyB 2lMpnPIjMs42/POV9eACP3YDPQsFGcmBPAGirSfUAos8totLZnh/P3+pnaBbATa8LcTi GN0nYtryJ86z+zGD+Uls0uNdpGQjvChfyrl8U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=SWszba2H5PurcgRokiAeAktoqjzKvef44CqAcS+JzExuRY4NOKyyntC0xNmY3dbRGN 8d04ZHxGwat+cGF232teHpMP3yAiO1mU0pkt1NKtUyUkykhlqd6mUosd7QX2kZ/jbNMC /wdp7FWA/tMrSwtFg84XCHrUELI5tIUlNq+l8= Received: by 10.180.211.5 with SMTP id j5mr3125265bkg.38.1220000224259; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 01:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.240.4 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 01:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <716a8d5f0808290157v6f561908r98ec10b1ca09aa9e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:57:04 +0200 From: "Konrad Jankowski" To: "Loren M. Lang" In-Reply-To: <1219868153.6962.37.camel@habakkuk.aloha.tallye.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <3cb459ed0808221700w335b0906g6901d8b8bec4dad9@mail.gmail.com> <1219868153.6962.37.camel@habakkuk.aloha.tallye.com> Cc: Alexander Churanov , freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unicode-based FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:57:05 -0000 On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 10:15 PM, Loren M. Lang wrote: > The third area that FreeBSD might need some improvement is in libc. I > am less familiar with this area so my information may be incorrect. > Basic locale and Unicode support exists in libc, but more advanced > functionality like character classes and collating needs work. The > commands mklocale and colldef are used to create the appropriate binary > data files from source and, if I remember correctly, used a format which > is too simplified to fully support a modern Unicode specification. The collation and colldef are being worked on right now, and the work is almost finished. Link to my wiki with project status, if somebody is interested: http://wiki.freebsd.org/KonradJankowski/Collation From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 29 09:05:07 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9615E1065672 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:05:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lichave@gmail.com) Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com (fk-out-0910.google.com [209.85.128.185]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 226018FC23 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:05:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lichave@gmail.com) Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k31so628631fkk.11 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:05:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=0kAhfPTrvPwWXYw4lvWgy4BubvR3qDmSh/CRdnPYLQM=; b=hz8DB/QR8MfZ1rVajDwdc3irSpU92zfJ2wHqed4b6rDc4cRHs3SyjLBtGUdcZrFJBU o0ky32uhmMmHD0ku6hgejiISYerE4IV2KoE9hi6JQSN1GHzpfG6+sAXlPOppEgSelnmB yAbYX9oZVEfpTB27tba6rwePPqll9EvTL2QZg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=T8YLpOReuy5yFXEuhIG3OdnsVdpvy+zAhASLLPiMSeN1DNbNedRxbdbtt3g6VvRmVK I5sjjv7uEBknXiIH3kyPNqtvatdo/6U4+9R49hHToFl5jURglfVaFd+YI6ETRvA8d1nq tEA9FDCbVz7v5L4T7wM/1W3exqB4hyEHLi49Q= Received: by 10.180.235.10 with SMTP id i10mr3110572bkh.56.1220000705629; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.240.4 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <716a8d5f0808290205v53257632qa7ceb8bc3dcd3e8b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:05:05 +0200 From: "Konrad Jankowski" To: "Aragon Gouveia" In-Reply-To: <20080828194209.GA44154@phat.za.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20080828003426.GB57611@phat.za.net> <716a8d5f0808281211s73f753bs557b3ac4446410ed@mail.gmail.com> <20080828192652.GB40752@phat.za.net> <20080828194209.GA44154@phat.za.net> Cc: dds@aueb.gr, freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding or editing a locale X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:05:07 -0000 On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 9:42 PM, Aragon Gouveia wrote: > Ok, I just jumped into LC_TIME and timelocal.* - it was a lot easier than I > thought it'd be. Cool! > > I'm from South Africa. I'd like to submit an en_ZA and a fix to the > existing af_ZA (which has errors). Can I just submit a diff via the PR > system? Yeah, that's the correct way. Than the appropriate committer will pick it up. I'm CC'ing Diomidis, who might help on getting it committed. From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 29 17:40:37 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EEAD1065678 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:40:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lorenl@north-winds.org) Received: from hosea.tallye.com (unknown [IPv6:2002:d863:c74e::104]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20C8C8FC12 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:40:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lorenl@north-winds.org) Received: from [IPv6:2002:d863:c74e:0:219:d1ff:fe5c:99c] (habakkuk.aloha.tallye.com [IPv6:2002:d863:c74e:0:219:d1ff:fe5c:99c]) (authenticated bits=0) by hosea.tallye.com (8.14.1/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m7THeWGV021995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:40:33 -0700 Authentication-Results: hosea.tallye.com from=lorenl@north-winds.org; sender-id=fail (NotPermitted); spf=fail (NotPermitted) X-SenderID: Sendmail Sender-ID Filter v0.2.14 hosea.tallye.com m7THeWGV021995 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=main; d=north-winds.org; c=nofws; q=dns; h=subject:from:to:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date: message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:x-greylist:received-spf: x-virus-scanned:x-virus-status; b=Guvp+o7tnwHbtSqb7PhVl6qapveWqXa/y+v/HeyA78jIE/E+3876WVaKii3dR3SGI gwsjSE9KKGsftAWO+uhlMlsUkwEfL60yePgleVssvhnZ0B79S7HnoddmLElzZGJ From: "Loren M. Lang" To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200808241415.31812.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> References: <3cb459ed0808221700w335b0906g6901d8b8bec4dad9@mail.gmail.com> <200808241415.31812.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-ilcSBMzPTU9neE/PAI1a" Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:40:32 -0700 Message-Id: <1220031632.7224.66.camel@habakkuk.aloha.tallye.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (hosea.tallye.com [IPv6:2002:d863:c74e::2]); Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (hosea.tallye.com: is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.92, clamav-milter version 0.92 on hosea.tallye.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: Re: Unicode-based FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:40:37 -0000 --=-ilcSBMzPTU9neE/PAI1a Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hmm, I seem to have sent this from the wrong identity, take two: On Sun, 2008-08-24 at 14:15 +0100, Frank wrote: > Even if you use an English locale with occasional accented letters, you might =20 > want ISO-8859-1 for legacy compatibility. Also I multiboot, sharing a Data=20 > Partition with other Unix flavours using ISO-8859-1. And I need to import=20 > previous tracks during Multisession CD/DVD Archive/Backup operations. And=20 > naturally I have legacy documents in ISO-8859-1, which corresponds to my=20 > old Windows Codepage 1252. As far other Unices, all modern ones support a full Unicode environment and I am just lucky enough that all mine are a recent enough install that I've been able to use UTF-8 since install. The filesystems all use UTF-8 for filenames and documents and are compatible across each other. Any CD-ROM using Microsoft's Joliet extensions for long filenames use Unicode as there internal encoding and FreeBSD has to translate that to the local encoding to display them properly, though, I am not sure if FreeBSD currently supports converting to UTF-8. >=20 > I've heard that Japanese and Chinese users prefer their own coding systems,=20 > because the Unicode Character Set in these languages is limited. Korean also=20 > has Combining Characters, and UTF-8 comes in 3 different Levels depending on=20 > its ability to cope with this. Maybe you need some contacts in other=20 > countries. Actually, China's official character set is GB18030. GB18030 is fully backward compatible to their old character set, GB2312, but contains an identical set of characters as is in Unicode. It's basically their version of UTF-8. >=20 > Faictz Ce Que Vouldras: Frank Mitchell >=20 > On Saturday 23 August 2008 01:00:28 Alexander Churanov wrote: > > > > I am interested in FreeBSD internationalization and unicode support. I > > already spent some time examining the source of syscons. I think that > > syscons is the main problem in bringing full UTF-8 support to FreeBSD out > > of box. It seems that I am ready with the solution. That's why I am writing > > to this list. > > > > 0) Is moving to UTF-8 from 8-bit codepages desired for FreeBSD? > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-i18n > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-i18n-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 --=20 Loren M. Lang lorenl@north-winds.org http://www.north-winds.org/ Public Key: ftp://ftp.north-winds.org/pub/lorenl_pubkey.asc Fingerprint: 10A0 7AE2 DAF5 4780 888A 3FA4 DCEE BB39 7654 DE5B --=-ilcSBMzPTU9neE/PAI1a Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBIuDSQ3O67OXZU3lsRAkY6AKDA7MkqdnbtFn9McGBtlcT5tMLpWACfd30p hnmw1BeuActPO7cq5ByE0rI= =5rbm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-ilcSBMzPTU9neE/PAI1a-- From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 29 17:43:25 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C240E106571F for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:43:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lorenl@north-winds.org) Received: from hosea.tallye.com (unknown [IPv6:2002:d863:c74e::104]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223D98FC0A for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:43:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lorenl@north-winds.org) Received: from [IPv6:2002:d863:c74e:0:219:d1ff:fe5c:99c] (habakkuk.aloha.tallye.com [IPv6:2002:d863:c74e:0:219:d1ff:fe5c:99c]) (authenticated bits=0) by hosea.tallye.com (8.14.1/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m7THhInV022162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:43:19 -0700 Authentication-Results: hosea.tallye.com from=lorenl@north-winds.org; sender-id=fail (NotPermitted); spf=fail (NotPermitted) X-SenderID: Sendmail Sender-ID Filter v0.2.14 hosea.tallye.com m7THhInV022162 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=main; d=north-winds.org; c=nofws; q=dns; h=subject:from:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date: message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:x-greylist:received-spf: x-virus-scanned:x-virus-status; b=u3ikt6uYzSBnaCT4pcPITgvL7yYujxnBexcJdptl6rlLYyaQcEIKv58WpCDtSabYh BKLqBteknfIEe1ziRScN1b/dHfC1U4Fx1+bCS8HoIcQqkzmKG8MVjhHc/XuRtTP From: "Loren M. Lang" To: Aragon Gouveia In-Reply-To: <716a8d5f0808290205v53257632qa7ceb8bc3dcd3e8b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080828003426.GB57611@phat.za.net> <716a8d5f0808281211s73f753bs557b3ac4446410ed@mail.gmail.com> <20080828192652.GB40752@phat.za.net> <20080828194209.GA44154@phat.za.net> <716a8d5f0808290205v53257632qa7ceb8bc3dcd3e8b@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-EM+sxAW6DfDC4HZqA0mw" Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:43:18 -0700 Message-Id: <1220031798.7224.69.camel@habakkuk.aloha.tallye.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (hosea.tallye.com [IPv6:2002:d863:c74e::2]); Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (hosea.tallye.com: is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.92, clamav-milter version 0.92 on hosea.tallye.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: dds@aueb.gr, freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding or editing a locale X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:43:25 -0000 --=-EM+sxAW6DfDC4HZqA0mw Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hmm, I seem to have sent this from the wrong identity, take two: On Fri, 2008-08-29 at 11:05 +0200, Konrad Jankowski wrote: > On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 9:42 PM, Aragon Gouveia wrote: > > Ok, I just jumped into LC_TIME and timelocal.* - it was a lot easier than I > > thought it'd be. Cool! > > > > I'm from South Africa. I'd like to submit an en_ZA and a fix to the > > existing af_ZA (which has errors). Can I just submit a diff via the PR > > system? Hmm, I'm curious what happens when a less common locale such as en_ZA is used and a certain application does not, for example, it has no translations for en_ZA. As I understand it, it will default to trying simply en as a locale, but is en equivalent to en_US or en_GB which are two locales applications are more likely to implement. Since a considerable amount of the software is written in the US, I'd expect that for some applications en would translate to en_US even though en_GB is a more appropriate substitute for en_ZA. (Unless I'm mistaken, I have only been to South Africa once.) How exactly do fallbacks work? _______________________________________________ > freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-i18n > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-i18n-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 --=20 Loren M. Lang lorenl@north-winds.org http://www.north-winds.org/ Public Key: ftp://ftp.north-winds.org/pub/lorenl_pubkey.asc Fingerprint: 10A0 7AE2 DAF5 4780 888A 3FA4 DCEE BB39 7654 DE5B --=-EM+sxAW6DfDC4HZqA0mw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBIuDU13O67OXZU3lsRArkzAKDRF3dl3suzrEKv/oWVLH70lvZFywCdEJCB INKaHBfIrSWyy3v3kcjV3+k= =dxA4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-EM+sxAW6DfDC4HZqA0mw-- From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 29 18:42:31 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 614041065693 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:42:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@opal.com) Received: from smtp.vzavenue.net (smtp.vzavenue.net [66.171.59.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 139C08FC15 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:42:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@opal.com) Received: from 74.79.171.66.subscriber.vzavenue.net (HELO homobox.opal.com) ([66.171.79.74]) by smtp.vzavenue.net with ESMTP; 29 Aug 2008 14:12:48 -0400 X-REPUTATION: None X-REMOTE-IP: 66.171.79.74 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AiQFAL7Lt0hCq09K/2dsb2JhbACBZboWA4Fn X-IronPort-AV: i="4.32,293,1217822400"; d="asc'?scan'208"; a="188481188:sNHT25169472" Received: from vougeot (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by homobox.opal.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m7TICcYP032835; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:12:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from fbsd@opal.com) Received: from vougeot ([72.68.203.73] helo=vougeot) by ASSP-nospam; 29 Aug 2008 14:12:38 -0400 Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:13:02 -0400 From: "J.R. Oldroyd" To: "Konrad Jankowski" Message-ID: <20080829141302.08dcbf4f@vougeot> In-Reply-To: <716a8d5f0808290157v6f561908r98ec10b1ca09aa9e@mail.gmail.com> References: <3cb459ed0808221700w335b0906g6901d8b8bec4dad9@mail.gmail.com> <1219868153.6962.37.camel@habakkuk.aloha.tallye.com> <716a8d5f0808290157v6f561908r98ec10b1ca09aa9e@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.3.1 (GTK+ 2.12.1; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/+SNPTby8GG3n7qQ=GhnezVm"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 Cc: Alexander Churanov , freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unicode-based FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:42:31 -0000 --Sig_/+SNPTby8GG3n7qQ=GhnezVm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:57:04 +0200, "Konrad Jankowski" = wrote: >=20 > The collation and colldef are being worked on right now, and the work > is almost finished. Link to my wiki with project status, if somebody > is interested: > http://wiki.freebsd.org/KonradJankowski/Collation > Some two years ago, I put together a document describing how to run FreeBSD under UTF-8 now. It is still available here: http://opal.com/jr/freebsd/unicode/ It contains notes about what is needed to make the base system and various tools and ports work with UTF-8. Some of the ports info may need updating, but it is still more-or-less accurate. Based on discussion on this list and -current at the time, there is also a roadmap documenting what would be needed to before FreeBSD can be switched. Konrad's collation work is one of the major items on that list. -jr =20 --Sig_/+SNPTby8GG3n7qQ=GhnezVm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAki4PC8ACgkQls33urr0k4nznACgjmcmuhVUc+hVmTY9td2X1Y1k yvIAoJnVBOFjD79/d37dPHfxBQ/58J3L =CWcq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/+SNPTby8GG3n7qQ=GhnezVm-- From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 29 23:01:07 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7C621065673 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:01:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: from mail.geek.sh (decoder.geek.sh [196.36.198.81]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB0D8FC08 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:01:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: by mail.geek.sh (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E636D24D22; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 01:01:05 +0200 (SAST) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 01:01:05 +0200 From: Aragon Gouveia To: "Loren M. Lang" Message-ID: <20080829230105.GA54406@phat.za.net> References: <20080828003426.GB57611@phat.za.net> <716a8d5f0808281211s73f753bs557b3ac4446410ed@mail.gmail.com> <20080828192652.GB40752@phat.za.net> <20080828194209.GA44154@phat.za.net> <716a8d5f0808290205v53257632qa7ceb8bc3dcd3e8b@mail.gmail.com> <1220031798.7224.69.camel@habakkuk.aloha.tallye.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1220031798.7224.69.camel@habakkuk.aloha.tallye.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.10-RELEASE-p2 i386 Cc: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding or editing a locale X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:01:07 -0000 | By Loren M. Lang | [ 2008-08-29 19:43 +0200 ] > Hmm, I'm curious what happens when a less common locale such as en_ZA is > used and a certain application does not, for example, it has no > translations for en_ZA. As I understand it, it will default to trying > simply en as a locale, but is en equivalent to en_US or en_GB which are > two locales applications are more likely to implement. Since a > considerable amount of the software is written in the US, I'd expect > that for some applications en would translate to en_US even though en_GB > is a more appropriate substitute for en_ZA. (Unless I'm mistaken, I > have only been to South Africa once.) How exactly do fallbacks work? I stand to be corrected, but I think if an application lacks translations for a locale it will fall back to the "C" locale (or rather, not change the locale from where it was). In the "C" locale and in terms of gettext (LC_MESSAGES) this means no translation will take place in application messages, so the message output will be in the language and dialect in which they were written in the application source itself. In terms of ctype, collation, etc., I would guess the C locale uses en_US symantics, but that is probably system dependent. As for en_ZA, you are correct - en_GB is a better substitute than en_US. Plain en I think should be prioritised as international english or any english in that order, so the best fit would be en_GB or any other en dialect which is supported by your app (in that order). That is just my opinion. setlocale() doesn't define a fallback mechanism in this case, so trying to call setlocale() for "en" on FreeBSD, for example, should return NULL and leave the locale unchanged. A fallback regime like you describe would need to be application defined. Regards, Aragon From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 30 00:12:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B09E2106566B for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:12:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexanderchuranov@gmail.com) Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com (ey-out-2122.google.com [74.125.78.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE708FC14 for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:12:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexanderchuranov@gmail.com) Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 6so340155eyi.7 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:12:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=N8c4r5NHIXeTmkQpNuWN9PudBBD6xjoGLuekFpHy/gk=; b=gIHOtDDXNUk8S6KWjIRHeIQ/QwXA+2HFFNi1o5GHlvlIdX1MeFl7J/s9Egm9+e92MV u+NTU/wY2SOlUmYfn1Z2S63luDOyWFdBjeIzixKgNOyT7TMvS2EO2UqOV121HMNGiFG6 o6Jvs6C5Tu6NsbswO/KAtyFWnuktybfxCbJgQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=hEmuTmbdMh28O9ZpGu5TinTt2ImI2YuuU6c5n/Nq7mGcF++dcLRG/Bu1j2q5OCiqUh +QUdrD888kI7wiw9S30tAN595Qng7jYPCKxUQX8s5k2xBFcWK8d4dVKiE0TayXkSaXZC WW5kqFCcQARsGkz70j9OYQERg64JwAqzbZtTU= Received: by 10.210.16.1 with SMTP id 1mr2426691ebp.55.1220055178132; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.130.15 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3cb459ed0808291712u74b9ef1m677a21d888f46abd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:12:58 +0400 From: "Alexander Churanov" To: "J.R. Oldroyd" In-Reply-To: <20080829141302.08dcbf4f@vougeot> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3cb459ed0808221700w335b0906g6901d8b8bec4dad9@mail.gmail.com> <1219868153.6962.37.camel@habakkuk.aloha.tallye.com> <716a8d5f0808290157v6f561908r98ec10b1ca09aa9e@mail.gmail.com> <20080829141302.08dcbf4f@vougeot> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unicode-based FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Internationalization Effort List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:12:59 -0000 2008/8/29 J.R. Oldroyd > On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:57:04 +0200, "Konrad Jankowski" > wrote: > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/KonradJankowski/Collation > > Some two years ago, I put together a document describing how to run > FreeBSD under UTF-8 now. It is still available here: > > http://opal.com/jr/freebsd/unicode/ > > Thanks. I've read both documents. As I have previously assumed, syscons is a major bottleneck in moving to Unicode. The collation project is also very useful. However, they work on another part of Unicode support. This means that all efforts will add to the project simultaneously. Alexander Churanov