From owner-freebsd-sun4v@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 8 08:30:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sun4v@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518D7106564A; Mon, 8 Sep 2008 08:30:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from darrenr@freebsd.org) Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (out1.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CAFA8FC25; Mon, 8 Sep 2008 08:30:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from darrenr@freebsd.org) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FFB015D4BE; Mon, 8 Sep 2008 04:14:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from heartbeat2.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.161]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:14:43 -0400 X-Sasl-enc: W6YzLZU8rsIh4fw2lgRJbY1xgUIGE4Lg4w6YWPZ7FYLU 1220861683 Received: from [192.168.1.235] (76-191-150-176.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [76.191.150.176]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D03B83D41A; Mon, 8 Sep 2008 04:14:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <48C4DEEF.7070201@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 01:14:39 -0700 From: Darren Reed User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marius Strobl References: <3c1674c90808211442t707966fq29997b53a70ed2f7@mail.gmail.com> <20080822113317.GD32539@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <48AEA699.10903@FreeBSD.org> <20080822201603.GA14444@alchemy.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <20080822201603.GA14444@alchemy.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: sun4v@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, Kip Macy , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-sun4v@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: the future of sun4v X-BeenThere: freebsd-sun4v@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the sun4v List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 08:30:59 -0000 Marius Strobl wrote: > On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 01:44:25PM +0200, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > Peter Jeremy wrote: > > >[Replies re-directed to freebsd-sun4v] > > > > > >On 2008-Aug-21 14:42:55 -0700, Kip Macy wrote: > > >>I believe that there is a general expectation by freebsd users and > > >>developers that unsupported code should not be in CVS. Although sun4v > > >>is a very interesting platform for developers doing SMP work, I simply > > >>do not have the time or energy to maintain it. If someone else would > > >>like to step up and try his hand I would be supportive of his efforts. > > >>In the likely event that no one steps forward by the time that 7.1 is > > >>released I will ask that it be moved to the Attic. > > > > > >Since there are no other current SPARC CPUs that FreeBSD can run on > > >(the US-II has been obsolete for about 6 years and FreeBSD won't run > > >on any more recent sun4u chips), that will also remove the > > >justification for maintaining a SPARC64 port. > > > > > >I don't have the knowledge or available time to maintain the sun4v > > >port by myself but would be happy to be part of a team doing so. One > > >impediment I have is that I don't have a T-1 or T-2 system that I can > > >dedicate to FreeBSD. I could work on FreeBSD in a guest domain - but > > >since FreeBSD doesn't support either the virtual disk or virtual > > >network, actually getting FreeBSD running there presents somewhat of a > > >challenge. > > > > > > > There are two t1000 systems in the freebsd.org cluster that are > > available for people to work on. Rink Springer has also expressed > > interest in this. > > > > Perhaps Kip can explain some more about what things he looked at, but > > the most serious bugs might be in pmap or perhaps trap handling. > > Operationally, things like buildworld -jN die quickly with random > > signals, kernel traps, etc. > > > > Kris > > > > P.S. It looks like marius has made progress on US III but sun4u is still > > an architectural dead end. > > Well, let's see what architecture the upcoming Rock CPUs are; > judging their feature list they appear to be a continuation of > the Fujitsu sun4u line rather than a successor of UST1/2 :) > That's inaccurate. Rock is meant to be very compatible with sun4v, although I don't know if uname will say "sun4v" or something else...but you will need a bug-free sun4v operating system to run them (which is to say that various bugs in the solaris sun4v support needed to get fixed rather than left...) The critical issue for freebsd (and any operating system for that matter) on rock is how well does the kernel scale to a system with that many concurrent threads? Darren From owner-freebsd-sun4v@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 8 08:30:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: sun4v@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518D7106564A; Mon, 8 Sep 2008 08:30:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from darrenr@freebsd.org) Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (out1.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CAFA8FC25; Mon, 8 Sep 2008 08:30:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from darrenr@freebsd.org) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FFB015D4BE; Mon, 8 Sep 2008 04:14:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from heartbeat2.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.161]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:14:43 -0400 X-Sasl-enc: W6YzLZU8rsIh4fw2lgRJbY1xgUIGE4Lg4w6YWPZ7FYLU 1220861683 Received: from [192.168.1.235] (76-191-150-176.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [76.191.150.176]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D03B83D41A; Mon, 8 Sep 2008 04:14:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <48C4DEEF.7070201@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 01:14:39 -0700 From: Darren Reed User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marius Strobl References: <3c1674c90808211442t707966fq29997b53a70ed2f7@mail.gmail.com> <20080822113317.GD32539@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <48AEA699.10903@FreeBSD.org> <20080822201603.GA14444@alchemy.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <20080822201603.GA14444@alchemy.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: sun4v@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, Kip Macy , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-sun4v@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: the future of sun4v X-BeenThere: freebsd-sun4v@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the sun4v List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 08:30:59 -0000 Marius Strobl wrote: > On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 01:44:25PM +0200, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > Peter Jeremy wrote: > > >[Replies re-directed to freebsd-sun4v] > > > > > >On 2008-Aug-21 14:42:55 -0700, Kip Macy wrote: > > >>I believe that there is a general expectation by freebsd users and > > >>developers that unsupported code should not be in CVS. Although sun4v > > >>is a very interesting platform for developers doing SMP work, I simply > > >>do not have the time or energy to maintain it. If someone else would > > >>like to step up and try his hand I would be supportive of his efforts. > > >>In the likely event that no one steps forward by the time that 7.1 is > > >>released I will ask that it be moved to the Attic. > > > > > >Since there are no other current SPARC CPUs that FreeBSD can run on > > >(the US-II has been obsolete for about 6 years and FreeBSD won't run > > >on any more recent sun4u chips), that will also remove the > > >justification for maintaining a SPARC64 port. > > > > > >I don't have the knowledge or available time to maintain the sun4v > > >port by myself but would be happy to be part of a team doing so. One > > >impediment I have is that I don't have a T-1 or T-2 system that I can > > >dedicate to FreeBSD. I could work on FreeBSD in a guest domain - but > > >since FreeBSD doesn't support either the virtual disk or virtual > > >network, actually getting FreeBSD running there presents somewhat of a > > >challenge. > > > > > > > There are two t1000 systems in the freebsd.org cluster that are > > available for people to work on. Rink Springer has also expressed > > interest in this. > > > > Perhaps Kip can explain some more about what things he looked at, but > > the most serious bugs might be in pmap or perhaps trap handling. > > Operationally, things like buildworld -jN die quickly with random > > signals, kernel traps, etc. > > > > Kris > > > > P.S. It looks like marius has made progress on US III but sun4u is still > > an architectural dead end. > > Well, let's see what architecture the upcoming Rock CPUs are; > judging their feature list they appear to be a continuation of > the Fujitsu sun4u line rather than a successor of UST1/2 :) > That's inaccurate. Rock is meant to be very compatible with sun4v, although I don't know if uname will say "sun4v" or something else...but you will need a bug-free sun4v operating system to run them (which is to say that various bugs in the solaris sun4v support needed to get fixed rather than left...) The critical issue for freebsd (and any operating system for that matter) on rock is how well does the kernel scale to a system with that many concurrent threads? Darren From owner-freebsd-sun4v@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 8 19:55:01 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sun4v@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FD0F1065674; Mon, 8 Sep 2008 19:55:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail18.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail18.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.199]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 215AA8FC17; Mon, 8 Sep 2008 19:55:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c122-106-215-175.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.106.215.175]) by mail18.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m88JswBH022437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Sep 2008 05:54:59 +1000 X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m88JsvvH012991; Tue, 9 Sep 2008 05:54:57 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m88JsvNh012990; Tue, 9 Sep 2008 05:54:57 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 05:54:57 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Darren Reed Message-ID: <20080908195457.GD15376@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <3c1674c90808211442t707966fq29997b53a70ed2f7@mail.gmail.com> <20080822113317.GD32539@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <48AEA699.10903@FreeBSD.org> <20080822201603.GA14444@alchemy.franken.de> <48C4DEEF.7070201@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5LiOUhUlsRX0HDkW" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <48C4DEEF.7070201@freebsd.org> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Kip Macy , freebsd-sun4v@freebsd.org Subject: Re: the future of sun4v X-BeenThere: freebsd-sun4v@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the sun4v List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 19:55:01 -0000 --5LiOUhUlsRX0HDkW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [cc list trimmed] On 2008-Sep-08 01:14:39 -0700, Darren Reed wrote: >The critical issue for freebsd (and any operating system for >that matter) on rock is how well does the kernel scale to a >system with that many concurrent threads? Right now it doesn't. And based on some previous threads, there is a lot of redesign to do before it can. But stability needs to come before scalability. There's no point in FreeBSD pretending it can support some arbitrary number of CPUs when it panics due to races in one of the CPU subsystems - which is my understanding of the current sun4v state. --=20 Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. --5LiOUhUlsRX0HDkW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkjFgxEACgkQ/opHv/APuIfMpACgvrMTawiIxmUTlZpHyobVSSCB MhYAoIoMncY72LEhXX3BCPuJmyxsP7lF =K28Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5LiOUhUlsRX0HDkW--