From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 14 01:09:24 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 741DD1065673 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 01:09:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oliver.pntr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ww0-f50.google.com (mail-ww0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C18D8FC1E for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2011 01:09:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wwf26 with SMTP id 26so4258010wwf.31 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2011 17:09:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type; bh=lMp/MRJXHj/4P5VrzrxjsOttB+1FECIu8LSkXUgN7sk=; b=ZGB6wWvCpxcub4uPdVuuZKIPFGr1iUE4CVNeZDJ6R0Gqb3gIscAVPp+vE6F2LSjNcw V/UreefFJy7TUHyGpbiWAboQPmHTlAsihNv0G4yxpiltkzsenbNAhonjXbgqYGbFzVcC K2Fuj31KXdh9djODFrkhoHocNtqqQwXDNbXcE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=x1wfTeveqSebrBaz460UdlAYJ7Kr5326zUbPnQ1FCVlxuh/WN/NmPBwqYcr6bSmWcP J3XDwBDpMwM1iZzgHEpTAG5Y2mbq8HIb5sEgWrPRgQ6qMj3BqQFeBGROgOVPm06+Ovzq fGpGcQAfzut77IfFnOAbIPwpO+jJaFV5GSGL8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.2.76 with SMTP id 12mr1998148wbi.14.1297644393276; Sun, 13 Feb 2011 16:46:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.159.135 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Feb 2011 16:46:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 01:46:33 +0100 Message-ID: From: Oliver Pinter To: FreeBSD Current Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-arch Subject: [head] does not build arm X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 01:09:24 -0000 Hi all! I try to build 9-CURRENT for arm, but become this error: tcp_output.o(.text+0x2b00): In function `tcp_addoptions': : undefined reference to `__ucmpdi2' *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/home/op/xtalin/build/arm.arm/usr/9-CURRENT.git/sys/DB-88F5XXX. *** Error code 1 the command is: # make buildkernel TARGET_ARCH=arm KERNCONF=DB-88F5XXX host: FreeBSD pandora-devel9 9.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 9.0-CURRENT #0: Sun Feb 13 22:41:19 CET 2011 root@pandora-devel9:/usr/obj/usr/9-CURRENT.git/sys/GENERIC amd64 and the top of the source: commit 7eaeb4db8ae148ecfcf232bf7652d9cf508788d3 Author: uqs Date: Sun Feb 13 22:17:49 2011 +0000 Add back soon-to-be-release FreeBSD 7.4 which got clobbered in the previous merges. git-svn-id: svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/head@218672 ccf9f872-aa2e-dd11-9fc8-001c23d0bc1f From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 18 15:46:44 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 355CD106564A; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 15:46:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nwhitehorn@freebsd.org) Received: from adsum.doit.wisc.edu (adsum.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 070E18FC08; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 15:46:43 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from avs-daemon.smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu by smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) id <0LGT00H14L5VV200@smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu>; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 09:46:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from comporellon.tachypleus.net (adsl-76-208-68-88.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net [76.208.68.88]) by smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0LGT00FUEL5RRT00@smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu>; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 09:46:40 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 09:46:39 -0600 From: Nathan Whitehorn In-reply-to: <4D35CFFB.3010302@freebsd.org> To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org Message-id: <4D5E945F.60106@freebsd.org> X-Spam-Report: AuthenticatedSender=yes, SenderIP=76.208.68.88 X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-13, Version=5.6.0.2009776, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2011.2.18.153620, SenderIP=76.208.68.88 References: <4D35CFFB.3010302@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101214 Thunderbird/3.1.7 Cc: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Installer Roadmap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 15:46:44 -0000 On 01/18/11 11:38, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > This plan ensures that we have a minimum of three months of testing of > the new installer on snapshot media before the 9.0 release, which > should ensure a minimum of bugs. I would also like to point out that > there are no roads in this map that end up with us having sysinstall > as the default installer past the 18th of February. After 15 years of > sysinstall being "greatly in need of death", it will finally be time > to retire it. Today is the 18th of February. Josh Paetzel and I (mostly him) have done a significant amount of infrastructural work required to do the bsdinstall/pc-sysinstall merge, but it is not quite done yet, so I have imported bsdinstall into HEAD with its own backend. As per the original roadmap, we will now continue work on merging (first retaining the bsdinstall partition editor backend combined with the rest of pc-sysinstall) while simultaneously working on release integration and bug fixes for bsdinstall. Many thanks to everyone who provided test results and feedback. Recent test ISOs can be found at the BSDInstall wiki page at http://wiki.freebsd.org/BSDInstall for amd64, i386, powerpc, powerpc64, and sparc64. -Nathan From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 19 03:34:39 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1256F106566B; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 03:34:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dteske@vicor.com) Received: from postoffice.vicor.com (postoffice.vicor.com [69.26.56.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B00BA8FC08; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 03:34:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [210.177.209.182] (port=13628 helo=[192.168.1.151]) by postoffice.vicor.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Pqd7i-0006x4-Dj; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 19:04:46 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) From: Devin Teske In-Reply-To: <4D5E945F.60106@freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 19:04:39 -0800 Message-Id: <61079648-D76C-4699-AC4D-F6EBE64ABFFC@vicor.com> References: <4D35CFFB.3010302@freebsd.org> <4D5E945F.60106@freebsd.org> To: Nathan Whitehorn X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-Scan-Signature: 2f29950d470aac1890067ac5925e7e97 X-Scan-Host: postoffice.vicor.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Devin Teske , freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Installer Roadmap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 03:34:39 -0000 On Feb 18, 2011, at 7:46 AM, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > On 01/18/11 11:38, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: >> This plan ensures that we have a minimum of three months of testing = of the new installer on snapshot media before the 9.0 release, which = should ensure a minimum of bugs. I would also like to point out that = there are no roads in this map that end up with us having sysinstall as = the default installer past the 18th of February. After 15 years of = sysinstall being "greatly in need of death", it will finally be time to = retire it. >=20 > Today is the 18th of February. Josh Paetzel and I (mostly him) have = done a significant amount of infrastructural work required to do the = bsdinstall/pc-sysinstall merge, but it is not quite done yet, so I have = imported bsdinstall into HEAD with its own backend. As per the original = roadmap, we will now continue work on merging (first retaining the = bsdinstall partition editor backend combined with the rest of = pc-sysinstall) while simultaneously working on release integration and = bug fixes for bsdinstall. >=20 > Many thanks to everyone who provided test results and feedback. Recent = test ISOs can be found at the BSDInstall wiki page at = http://wiki.freebsd.org/BSDInstall for amd64, i386, powerpc, powerpc64, = and sparc64. > -Nathan I've been following this (and related) threads for months (regarding = alternatives to sysinstall), and yet I am still hesitant to write this = e-mail (perhaps unnecessarily-so)(that is to say, that I've been biting = our collective tongue until now). However, the fact remains that this is = perhaps going to raise some ire (or perhaps the opposite ... maybe = people will like what I have to say), and for that I apologize in = advance. Okay, here we go. I -- having a _deep_ love and respect for sysinstall and further having = spent many years of my life in the deep annals of its twisted home-grown = code base -- plan to create/manage/maintain a 3rd-party distribution = installer that continues to use sysinstall to install the later (assumed = bsdinstall-based) versions of FreeBSD. There are many reasons for this, and none of them are selfish (although = it remains possible to drum-up some selfish reason, all of the reasons = behind our motivation are in-fact unselfish). Truth-be-told, I welcome = the replacement of sysinstall but am very wary that ANY replacement will = be able to exactly replicate the hardware compatibility that sysinstall = currently enjoys. I do indeed envision a great celebration as FreeBSD-9 = bucks sysinstall but also at the same time have nightmares of receiving = waves of calls from people having trouble (for example) "installing = FreeBSD-9 on their AMD K6 based system, circa long-long-ago in a = universe far-far-away." (yes, we do have data centers running that very = equipment with uptime in the 1,000's of days). This project is simply to give people an alternative as bugs are = ironed-out in the new installer. A quick note however... this project will _NOT_ be continued in = perpetuity. That is to say that I will only offer a sysinstall-based = alternative to the newest releases using bsdinstall for a limited time. = How limited? Until I can get our "universal installler" migrated over to = the new install platform AND prove that said new installer can work on = *every* machine that we employ in production. That being said, we may be = looking at years of offerings (no less than one, but beit far-fetched = for me to consider maintaining this longer than 3-4 years; *self-check* = I just _know_ I'm going to eat those words some day). The code to keep this running has already been developed in-house and = will be published in the next 6 months on = http://druidbsd.sourceforge.net/ The long and the short of this is... with a large distribution of over = 1,000 FreeBSD systems running in production (that's an = ultra-conservative estimate by the way), we will be damned-sad to see = sysinstall bite the dust yet eagerly await the day we can perform = real-world tests with the newer installer -- however until then we are = fully intending on extending the life of sysinstall to service our = customer's production-level requirements (sysinstall has served us well, = so we intend to return the favor by extending its life -- and we hope = that there are people out there that have the same sentiments about this = aged-but-rock-solid code). --=20 Cheers, Devin P.S. Call us luddites, call us slow-movers, but don't call us haters ^_^ = (I for one welcome our new bsdinstall overlords -- we just need more = time for the transition but don't want to be pigeon-holed into running = FreeBSD-8.x as our last production OS simply because the FreeBSD-9 = installer is different). P.P.S. I've got _no_ idea what kind of response I'm going to get from = this. But (holds up a snifter of sherry), here's to hoping that someone = out there will be sounding the trumpets in favor of someone willing to = carry on the legacy! (hey, I'm all for advancement, but there's = something to be said for paying homage to your roots). > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-sysinstall > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-sysinstall-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Cheers, Devin Teske -> CONTACT INFORMATION <- Business Solutions Consultant II FIS - fisglobal.com 510-735-5650 Mobile 510-621-2038 Office 510-621-2020 Office Fax 909-477-4578 Home/Fax devin.teske@fisglobal.com -> LEGAL DISCLAIMER <- This message contains confidential and proprietary information of the sender, and is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by any other person is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the e-mail sender immediately, and delete the original message without making a copy. -> FUN STUFF <- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GAT/CS/B/CC/E/IT/MC/M/MU/P/S/TW d+(++) s: a- C+++@$ UB++++$ P++++@$ = L++++$ E- W+++ N? o? K? w@ O M++$ V- PS+>++ PE@ Y+ PGP-> t(+) 5? X(+) R(-) tv+ = b+>++ DI+ D+(++) G++ e>++++ h r+++ z+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ http://www.geekcode.com/ -> END TRANSMISSION <- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 19 04:22:12 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BD03106566B; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 04:22:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nwhitehorn@freebsd.org) Received: from adsum.doit.wisc.edu (adsum.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68F738FC08; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 04:22:12 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from avs-daemon.smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu by smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) id <0LGU00802K4ZS300@smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu>; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 22:22:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from comporellon.tachypleus.net (adsl-76-208-68-88.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net [76.208.68.88]) by smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0LGU00IC9K4WQ520@smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu>; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 22:22:10 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 22:22:08 -0600 From: Nathan Whitehorn In-reply-to: To: Shawn Webb Message-id: <4D5F4570.7090507@freebsd.org> X-Spam-Report: AuthenticatedSender=yes, SenderIP=76.208.68.88 X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-12, Version=5.6.0.2009776, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2011.2.19.41523, SenderIP=76.208.68.88 References: <4D35CFFB.3010302@freebsd.org> <4D5E945F.60106@freebsd.org> <61079648-D76C-4699-AC4D-F6EBE64ABFFC@vicor.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101214 Thunderbird/3.1.7 Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Devin Teske , freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Installer Roadmap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 04:22:12 -0000 On 02/18/11 22:11, Shawn Webb wrote: >> There are many reasons for this, and none of them are selfish (although it >> remains possible to drum-up some selfish reason, all of the reasons behind >> our motivation are in-fact unselfish). Truth-be-told, I welcome the >> replacement of sysinstall but am very wary that ANY replacement will be able >> to exactly replicate the hardware compatibility that sysinstall currently >> enjoys. I do indeed envision a great celebration as FreeBSD-9 bucks >> sysinstall but also at the same time have nightmares of receiving waves of >> calls from people having trouble (for example) "installing FreeBSD-9 on >> their AMD K6 based system, circa long-long-ago in a universe far-far-away." >> (yes, we do have data centers running that very equipment with uptime in the >> 1,000's of days). >> > I'm sure I'm not fully aware of the situation at your data center, but would > systems that have 1,000+ day uptimes be candidates for upgrade to FreeBSD 9? > It seems that if a system has that kind of uptime, it's a high priority > server and uptime needs to be maintained. > > Maybe it would be possible to have both sysinstall and bsdinstall on the > same install medium? It may. If it is possible without enormous difficulty, this is something that should certainly be in place for 9.0. If it isn't possible, it may be a good idea to provide a second set of media with sysinstall for those who want it. I think that in any case, it is extremely unlikely that sysinstall will be entirely disconnected from the build before the release. As regards the original posting, I totally share Devin's concern about wide hardware compatibility, including with very old hardware, and wish him the best of luck with sysinstall life support! As for bsdinstall, I have taken a substantial amount of effort to ensure that bsdinstall work on older hardware (I have tested it on a VT220 at 9600 baud connected to a 13-year-old Sun Ultra 5) and would regard it failing in any way on any hardware on which FreeBSD will boot as a serious bug. -Nathan From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 19 04:35:49 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACC17106566B; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 04:35:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lattera@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ww0-f50.google.com (mail-ww0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E64378FC0A; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 04:35:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wwf26 with SMTP id 26so4333180wwf.31 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 20:35:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=9GUKhYlLbyG/BJC/6dQQaxgyGXeq2iFTB1+jbQB2jNw=; b=cOTCwf4fcJSDKk5qFaOsZlvtUniIEgzy6DKCN8dPWtpIbS1kzCNX2fT0ryFSPoWPLB Oq9mvmRNiySM8yueUPt4C8qvzoNAOc82A7A2B5I9R1sy4VGz/r1+eZZu/OVRHqs0G+Lo cNAUKXhsaFUvs50A1K8DOuN6xhCbpThKoCVXk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=kQu7CsWKAkx+JDJRSF/Uy1X0eAs122Nu62iUVAl7qxDCBMznsA26IRMpFc2HVRBsxE 5V7U/jaNGKILWG2FUH49FiXp9jFm6ozxcYyZoITDysnKEolFSHXPG86/i813y7TAXLLy F0yHcbcQ1qLfEXJFSZjD6LpcFxVXuPLLWGGM4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.9.222 with SMTP id m30mr1340194wbm.211.1298088716916; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 20:11:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.68.204 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 20:11:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <61079648-D76C-4699-AC4D-F6EBE64ABFFC@vicor.com> References: <4D35CFFB.3010302@freebsd.org> <4D5E945F.60106@freebsd.org> <61079648-D76C-4699-AC4D-F6EBE64ABFFC@vicor.com> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 21:11:56 -0700 Message-ID: From: Shawn Webb To: Devin Teske Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Nathan Whitehorn , freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Installer Roadmap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 04:35:49 -0000 > There are many reasons for this, and none of them are selfish (although it > remains possible to drum-up some selfish reason, all of the reasons behind > our motivation are in-fact unselfish). Truth-be-told, I welcome the > replacement of sysinstall but am very wary that ANY replacement will be able > to exactly replicate the hardware compatibility that sysinstall currently > enjoys. I do indeed envision a great celebration as FreeBSD-9 bucks > sysinstall but also at the same time have nightmares of receiving waves of > calls from people having trouble (for example) "installing FreeBSD-9 on > their AMD K6 based system, circa long-long-ago in a universe far-far-away." > (yes, we do have data centers running that very equipment with uptime in the > 1,000's of days). > I'm sure I'm not fully aware of the situation at your data center, but would systems that have 1,000+ day uptimes be candidates for upgrade to FreeBSD 9? It seems that if a system has that kind of uptime, it's a high priority server and uptime needs to be maintained. Maybe it would be possible to have both sysinstall and bsdinstall on the same install medium? Thanks, Shawn Webb From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 19 08:45:11 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98BA31065673; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 08:45:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bruce@cran.org.uk) Received: from muon.cran.org.uk (unknown [IPv6:2a01:348:0:15:5d59:5c40:0:1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2700B8FC12; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 08:45:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from muon.cran.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by muon.cran.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29AEAE81CA; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 08:45:05 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=cran.org.uk; h=from:to :subject:date:cc:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; s=mail; bh=v 0g3w/9olMaseMM1nZzRpksB8TY=; b=uv8O9+XeMoVn/JysRNm80CUvRiQ3FjVx6 GDeAMSt8yTmGsS7hFXxRU/o7FsfcdJAGawEO2S3qUlJmg5ltHhlC9KdlKH79w8NT x6Hg/WCYvOrKEJdueyqGNxWXRpg2innQ95s0lwpukk+1UOCy10FST/eDYeeBz7F5 bHPSVvHc94= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=cran.org.uk; h=from:to :subject:date:cc:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; q=dns; s= mail; b=QZZjT2IfBLoQC3F2+/oJp7MqPKGCa2AlLv6MlUk9NszcoWZ9t9viRcWJ kubgwJY0h6u+WCqT/AzrA9ns4/YXi/q9gtAedzWq1P8v0lKv+ehYM/EpQFCLudb1 Hrd09uDxoX5UaB+7X1olZYwVy/ZeZ7O/NLHG3BR+ihbkgoTxhyw= Received: from core.nessbank (client-86-31-177-138.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com [86.31.177.138]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by muon.cran.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 04AD4E8189; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 08:45:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Bruce Cran To: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 08:44:42 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/9.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <4D35CFFB.3010302@freebsd.org> <4D5E945F.60106@freebsd.org> <61079648-D76C-4699-AC4D-F6EBE64ABFFC@vicor.com> In-Reply-To: <61079648-D76C-4699-AC4D-F6EBE64ABFFC@vicor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201102190844.43267.bruce@cran.org.uk> Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Devin Teske , Nathan Whitehorn , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Installer Roadmap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 08:45:11 -0000 On Saturday 19 February 2011 03:04:39 Devin Teske wrote: > There are many reasons for this, and none of them are selfish (although it > remains possible to drum-up some selfish reason, all of the reasons behind > our motivation are in-fact unselfish). Truth-be-told, I welcome the > replacement of sysinstall but am very wary that ANY replacement will be > able to exactly replicate the hardware compatibility that sysinstall > currently enjoys. I do indeed envision a great celebration as FreeBSD-9 > bucks sysinstall but also at the same time have nightmares of receiving > waves of calls from people having trouble (for example) "installing > FreeBSD-9 on their AMD K6 based system, circa long-long-ago in a universe > far-far-away." (yes, we do have data centers running that very equipment > with uptime in the 1,000's of days). I think bsdinstall as it currently is is simple enough that there shouldn't be any compatibility issues: it uses gpart for partitioning, runs tools like tzsetup to configure settings etc. so there's far less to go wrong than sysinstall's custom code which for example could crash on the "probing devices" screen. -- Bruce Cran From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 19 09:58:49 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06B171065673; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:58:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pw0-f54.google.com (mail-pw0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C84028FC17; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:58:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pwj8 with SMTP id 8so217778pwj.13 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 01:58:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=Qv4u9ltVgNyvA7dKVj8nSSCffm5ZZp3veH6Mx7djFq4=; b=Nm9h6qVyt5zxu5vDJHOj1xx/SAPXte4TMM/6BH6omMPY3aYUeX9cZd40HEqZ2HTSYD 91LEc/Ig3TbmBu0z4N22woE44u0c4r+BTpgD5vzlDozoJTqOQ3tlAN0nIv7rryJg7m3r WBxKZVgASTqvX1yeHURW4bJZ4qzemocfdFl78= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=G5w2p5wLjFPvoysk/75CFq1GJqu96cjK3DT381i2xO05nTHailgRQlVeA10DAjC+mV +SqmmNlHyJYx+C1nOAN2Rshoya97yvREb/fWUsLnlmGZlc6ioM7wOtwYCuZGKjUy/zkG XSancPe6xtWNoRExt4Q75SVPJOOeDD22it0w8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.13.8 with SMTP id 8mr1285484wfm.133.1298108051640; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 01:34:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.128.18 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 01:34:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 04:34:11 -0500 Message-ID: From: grarpamp To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Subject: FreeBSD Installer Roadmap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:58:49 -0000 Sysinstall is fine, as I'm sure any replacement will be. So I'll just note a few things I'd like to see in any such replacement... 1 - I used install.cfg's on floppies to clone systems, a lot. Hands on the box were needed with that. Operators skills were in question, so having them use the dialog menus properly was a pain and often resulted in non-zeroed disk or half built systems. And though all else was cloned, it needed a separate .cfg for each box due to: fqdn, gateway, ip/mask interface - sometimes changed root disk - sometimes changed Would have killed for a simple console shell script to ask those questions of the operator, per machine. 2 - Being able to skip, replace, or prefix/suffix each stage of whatever the installer would do with a shell script (ala: distSetCustom local) would be cool. 3 - Options to dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/[x] bs=1m, where x are any boot sectors, drives, slices, partitions, labels, etc that would otherwise be blown away but not fully wiped beforehand. And a request for some remaining bugs to be fixed, implemented anew or figured out... 1 - Setting debug=yes was great[a], up until you tried to get that resultant file off the system or view it. Due to the way things were mounted with mfsroot and the alt-f4 shell being separate, I never did figure out how to do that. [a] - only when calling /stand/sysinstall from your development box to test your install.cfg, and the install process. Not when actually installing a box. 2 - mediaClose - didn't work right. I couldn't get the base distribution bits from one ftp server, and the local distribution bits from another. And in general, I'll cheer for whichever camps are doing... As opposed to mfsroot, boot a stripped kernel, on real filesystem, with init to shell to installer. and installroot things from there. Some sort of plaintext backend that can read a config. Pluggable frontends, at minimum 80x25 console shell, then dialog/web/xorg/whatever. Network boot, retrieve config via net, etc. It would be cool to have an 'installer build' config option set available during buildworld too. Much like you can configure crunchgen to customize the crunch, you could customize certain parts of how you wanted the installer to work. Particularly for things that might take up space, what it thinks are its first places to get input, boot from, display, where to find its config while blind, etc. And a stripped buildworld kernel config for use with the installer. Call it just more permutations on the liveCD concept. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 19 14:55:33 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC00B106566C for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:55:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nwhitehorn@freebsd.org) Received: from adsum.doit.wisc.edu (adsum.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F6EE8FC0C for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:55:33 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from avs-daemon.smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu by smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) id <0LGV00300DGKND00@smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 08:55:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from comporellon.tachypleus.net (adsl-76-208-68-88.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net [76.208.68.88]) by smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0LGV0033DDGI3E00@smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 08:55:31 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 08:55:30 -0600 From: Nathan Whitehorn In-reply-to: To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Message-id: <4D5FD9E2.9030603@freebsd.org> X-Spam-Report: AuthenticatedSender=yes, SenderIP=76.208.68.88 X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-13, Version=5.6.0.2009776, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2011.2.19.144218, SenderIP=76.208.68.88 References: User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101214 Thunderbird/3.1.7 Subject: Re: FreeBSD Installer Roadmap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:55:33 -0000 On 02/19/11 03:34, grarpamp wrote: > Sysinstall is fine, as I'm sure any replacement will be. So I'll > just note a few things I'd like to see in any such replacement... > > 1 - I used install.cfg's on floppies to clone systems, a lot. Hands > on the box were needed with that. Operators skills were in question, > so having them use the dialog menus properly was a pain and often > resulted in non-zeroed disk or half built systems. And though all > else was cloned, it needed a separate.cfg for each box due > to: > > fqdn, gateway, ip/mask > interface - sometimes changed > root disk - sometimes changed > > Would have killed for a simple console shell script to ask those > questions of the operator, per machine. > > 2 - Being able to skip, replace, or prefix/suffix each stage of > whatever the installer would do with a shell script (ala: distSetCustom > local) would be cool. > > 3 - Options to dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/[x] bs=1m, where x are any > boot sectors, drives, slices, partitions, labels, etc that would > otherwise be blown away but not fully wiped beforehand. > > > And a request for some remaining bugs to be fixed, implemented anew > or figured out... > > 1 - Setting debug=yes was great[a], up until you tried to get that > resultant file off the system or view it. Due to the way things > were mounted with mfsroot and the alt-f4 shell being separate, I > never did figure out how to do that. > > [a] - only when calling /stand/sysinstall from your development box > to test your install.cfg, and the install process. Not when actually > installing a box. > > 2 - mediaClose - didn't work right. I couldn't get the base > distribution bits from one ftp server, and the local distribution > bits from another. > > > And in general, I'll cheer for whichever camps are doing... > As opposed to mfsroot, boot a stripped kernel, on real filesystem, > with init to shell to installer. > and installroot things from there. > Some sort of plaintext backend that can read a config. > Pluggable frontends, at minimum 80x25 console shell, then > dialog/web/xorg/whatever. > Network boot, retrieve config via net, etc. > > It would be cool to have an 'installer build' config option set > available during buildworld too. Much like you can configure crunchgen > to customize the crunch, you could customize certain parts of how > you wanted the installer to work. Particularly for things that might > take up space, what it thinks are its first places to get input, > boot from, display, where to find its config while blind, etc. > And a stripped buildworld kernel config for use with the installer. > Call it just more permutations on the liveCD concept. > You've basically described how bsdinstall (and, largely, pc-sysinstall) works in this mail. The zeroing thing would have to be done by hand (e.g. from the installer script or a shell), and there is currently no built-in fetch a configuration from the network option. The 'installer build' option is also something you have to do by hand, although it is not complicated. Since the installation process is controlled by a shell script, any of these things would be easy to add. Since we have several months yet to add them before the release, patches are very welcome. -Nathan From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 19 14:59:36 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 872B71065674; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:59:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bruce@cran.org.uk) Received: from muon.cran.org.uk (unknown [IPv6:2a01:348:0:15:5d59:5c40:0:1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D488FC12; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:59:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from muon.cran.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by muon.cran.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89C2AE81CA; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:59:31 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=cran.org.uk; h=from:to :subject:date:cc:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; s=mail; bh=M adVukJxqEgnPFiajh/8gzYBKHs=; b=CmMYsx07SHm0zAoHUWBVcoCXrsakGD3Vl /N1scN+/YvTj0Tg/YfL7oCKca9vSP2I2qHgqYg/ETF0KEA4Ntd3sQmp8d8jZAqy5 9lo7E1D7Rqh9yRLIOii5MzZR6ux2Adpg32A8v37msLJ76j/B0KMUedFQGoyzb8Ae A7C/7PUzBk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=cran.org.uk; h=from:to :subject:date:cc:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; q=dns; s= mail; b=F41kEbureAQHlKI/qrAOLFtafZnfmmnaKMfaSV3tQZLXJi3gAW+KZKvH ORrz0Q+qJSRu75enS0Z5SNrrCyLcUHiUbsVG+ikt6CKJRhrzgrdB5r31/8oul1Yg n/8ekCpm6uvXSaB7a23dOG2JxSWpcWQ3Y+ml5KzwfH7abAoTmK8= Received: from core.nessbank (client-86-31-177-138.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com [86.31.177.138]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by muon.cran.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 72AD4E8150; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:59:31 +0000 (GMT) From: Bruce Cran To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:59:08 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/9.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <4D5FD9E2.9030603@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <4D5FD9E2.9030603@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201102191459.08788.bruce@cran.org.uk> Cc: Nathan Whitehorn Subject: Re: FreeBSD Installer Roadmap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:59:36 -0000 On Saturday 19 February 2011 14:55:30 Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > The zeroing thing would have to be done by hand > (e.g. from the installer script or a shell), and there is currently no > built-in fetch a configuration from the network option. pc-sysinstall does a certain amount of zeroing (using dd) of existing partitions etc. already. -- Bruce Cran