From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 3 01:12:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77737106564A for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 01:12:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCB41152B3F for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 01:12:56 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FCABA18.4020405@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 18:12:56 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120506 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5pre OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Good resources for BSDL vs. GPL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2012 01:12:57 -0000 Does anyone have a good resource for an objective discussion of GPL vs. BSDL? The upstream for one of the ports I maintain is considering switching licenses, and I'd like to present some non-inflammatory facts for him to consider. Please cc me on replies, since I'm not subscribed to this list. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 3 02:10:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5076D106566C; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 02:10:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 067FD8FC0A; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 02:10:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so6651735obc.13 for ; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 19:10:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=d4lJsf8Vdfh5iz0dAWHp+0kP4RubV49fGCvnVOM1Ae4=; b=A88qWzeQBO3dpuLD9SKAOVHIIa2zBA8btFOYWcLRq+d193Mrj46JDBuYp9GEjk4O09 1Nx9S78YDmxDpV6Z4TIBORW+NinaKRFSfmk5LfwCj6PEOdZniZSK8V/2//gh3KFMv9Ib tRQLRl1Zr41bULU3eu83dPE669i9y/fxN8JjVSgFa6qRC0EYfgseuQrA/g6M5YRZ4lvZ +dEGNPQVN6DtcsspUjDFDiVnHgwYTfZbdB/iVJ/cKCWgG6x1PxJb95ZJo5glZeYkY68U 2WWlV7f1BWdF6QFh8T0Rf/66xAehC9SIuY80tsdD5By224F6pVyO1/x+N6SCL3y+TaLK rWlQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.159.5 with SMTP id wy5mr7887971obb.24.1338689442336; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 19:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.53.1 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 19:10:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FCABA18.4020405@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FCABA18.4020405@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 19:10:42 -0700 Message-ID: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: Doug Barton Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good resources for BSDL vs. GPL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2012 02:10:43 -0000 On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > Does anyone have a good resource for an objective discussion of GPL vs. > BSDL? The upstream for one of the ports I maintain is considering > switching licenses, and I'd like to present some non-inflammatory facts > for him to consider. > > Please cc me on replies, since I'm not subscribed to this list. > > Doug > > -- > > This .signature sanitized for your protection > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_software_licenses http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_licenses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_licenses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Software_licenses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Copyright_licenses http://news.slashdot.org/story/99/06/23/1313224/featuregpl-vs-bsd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_licenses http://www.freebsdnews.net/2008/07/18/bsd-license-vs-gpl-license/ http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/bsdl-gpl/article.html http://www.matusiak.eu/numerodix/blog/index.php/2007/12/15/gpl-vs-bsd-a-matter-of-sustainability/ http://tips.developersvoice.com/bsd-or-gpl-choosing-an-open-source-license.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License http://whimsical.nu/2011/01/25/trying-to-choose-between-gpl-and-bsd-licensing/ If you search the following phrase in Internet you may find more links : bsd license vs gpl license Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 3 03:00:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19D7106566B for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 03:00:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C46914E435; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 03:00:50 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FCAD362.6030000@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 20:00:50 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120506 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk References: <4FCABA18.4020405@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5pre OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good resources for BSDL vs. GPL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2012 03:00:50 -0000 On 06/02/2012 19:10, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > If you search the following phrase in Internet you may find more links : Thank you for the response, and sorry I wasn't more clear. I know how to use the google, what I am really looking for are resources that people have used and/or found effective in the past. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 3 09:51:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12721106566B; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 09:51:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC3D18FC0C; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 09:51:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so7200764obc.13 for ; Sun, 03 Jun 2012 02:51:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=WL4BY3BDMeewMcXcuDDKi+SuGvyocsS1n05Pb5m2lOY=; b=G/RwE7H8ngVaMXCMU1mB45y/ZkyG43fZD/BvCYiCaxItu3e2e6zX/vV7vI+JysQGjN 23odhWbIueXwz7fN7jDrp1rfK4/lZ/wsx8DF2u4avMm6L4PRZNAV8I8e/0wx1OIBQcww 2dUeLmlP7gxUBnU86MyjfCA0SiylJNyHeMqdVn1IW5v/EZ+FObRjwOBqvHK0Su9nWTJk CabLbXkEEr9VEklgRpy9eEng3gI+UIsROTiLUbqya8PR7sp6bA28iYW4veBcdYu68Cv1 zX+CYTpUvHV51rtupnUSe+AMa6y/Uee3td45fh6hpoLviBDOeSpqHrDNSQhyV9W70K+x nlkA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.51.100 with SMTP id j4mr8539768obo.78.1338717108151; Sun, 03 Jun 2012 02:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.53.1 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 02:51:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FCAD362.6030000@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FCABA18.4020405@FreeBSD.org> <4FCAD362.6030000@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 02:51:48 -0700 Message-ID: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: Doug Barton Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good resources for BSDL vs. GPL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2012 09:51:49 -0000 On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 8:00 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > On 06/02/2012 19:10, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > > If you search the following phrase in Internet you may find more links : > > Thank you for the response, and sorry I wasn't more clear. I know how to > use the google, what I am really looking for are resources that people > have used and/or found effective in the past. > > Doug > > -- > > This .signature sanitized for your protection > A mailing list reader may be very experienced to least experienced . Therefore , to be useful to least experienced sometimes being a little more explicit should not be taken a personal degradation by experienced people . Everyday I am making searches in Internet . Search engines are not so capable to understand what it is wanted and mostly they are producing garbage until a phrase is written that they understand correctly . There is no any usable index that a phrase may be selected from it . It is necessary to be a "ghost" to realize what should be searched . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 3 10:21:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFA3E106564A for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 10:21:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jakub_lach@mailplus.pl) Received: from sam.nabble.com (sam.nabble.com [216.139.236.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B67E58FC08 for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 10:21:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Sb7wV-0003vN-Su for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2012 03:21:51 -0700 Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 03:21:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jakub Lach To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1338718911333-5714466.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4FCABA18.4020405@FreeBSD.org> <4FCAD362.6030000@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Good resources for BSDL vs. GPL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2012 10:21:53 -0000 Nobody is bashing you Mehmet, no need to be so defensive. -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/Good-resources-for-BSDL-vs-GPL-tp5714397p5714466.html Sent from the freebsd-advocacy mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 3 12:44:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E1651065776 for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 12:44:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk) Received: from avasout07.plus.net (avasout07.plus.net [84.93.230.235]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9354E8FC15 for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 12:44:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from deb604.localnet ([213.120.20.30]) by avasout07 with smtp id HokU1j00E0ewNot01okWE7; Sun, 03 Jun 2012 13:44:33 +0100 X-CM-Score: 0.00 X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=bujO9Tmi c=1 sm=1 a=WNX19RJQ82yJT6DFZmRTjw==:17 a=tvFjYeeLK-cA:10 a=KdljGRtMWWsA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=7vtFykjVAAAA:8 a=9I5xiGouAAAA:8 a=MMbpcZFAV1fkKB3EcnYA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=gXaxqH7TWFMA:10 a=2fPOlPt4dusA:10 a=WNX19RJQ82yJT6DFZmRTjw==:117 From: Frank Mitchell To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 13:39:31 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (Linux/2.6.32-5-686; KDE/4.4.5; i686; ; ) References: <1SHqI5-0000qk-02@internal.tormail.net> <86pqapmxmc.fsf@ds4.des.no> <1338592078824-5714091.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: <1338592078824-5714091.post@n5.nabble.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201206031339.31442.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Wildebeest Licensing X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2012 12:44:41 -0000 Hi: As the author of the Wildebeest License, I can explain the inspiration behind it. I live in England, and Licenses formulated for US Law are kind of illegal here. The "No Warranty Express Or Implied" stuff is apparently intended to satisfy the Uniform Commercial Code covering sales of goods to US consumers. The version I got applies to the State Of Michigan, and there are variations between States which I wouldn't know about. But according to the informal Legal Advice which I got from the British Trading Standards people, this Warranty Disclaimer is totally invalid in England. Actually I could put: "No Warranty Express Or Implied" because I'm giving my software away free of charge. This means no exchange of value, therefore no Contract between myself and the User, so I'm not cheating him if the Software doesn't work. However I understand this wouldn't be valid in France and Germany. And ultimately if some User wanted to sue, I'd have better defences than a Clause in a License, which wouldn't count so much under English Law anyway. I don't admire the way other Licenses tackle this issue. Put it this way: I'm a Serial Killer "To The Fullest Extent Of Applicable Law". I was also motivated by Joerg Schilling's experience. He describes how "cdrecord" suffers from faulty development, and I conclude that the Warranty Disclaimer attracts such activity. It reminds me of the days when I worked in the British Nuclear Power Industry, where some people believed they could disclaim Liability for Death & Personal Injury because they worked for a Limited Liability Company. My "Spiegel" CD/DVD Writer is my personal project, and I tried to keep it simple and effective. I like to think it will help Linux Users record their data, but I don't need other people working on it. Looking at some Legal eBooks, it's appropriate to specify which Legal System is intended to apply to your License. Some bits of the Wildebeest License are just a liberal interpretation of the British Copyright Designs & Patents Act 1998. But it would be interesting if people in other countries wanted to adapt it for their Locale. If anybody can imagine an international version, or any other improvement, like making it simpler to understand, do let me know. For reference, here's the Wildebeest License again. Obviously I wanted to parody the GNU License too: ==================================================== WILDEBEEST LICENSE PREAMBLE: The Licenses for most Software are designed to repudiate any legal liability if it doesn't work. By contrast, the Wildebeest License tries to ensure that it will work, and that you know about any problems beforehand. No permission is needed to modify your Software to serve its intended purpose, because United States and European Union Law both allow Lawful Users to do this anyway. So when this License speaks of Free Software, we mean that you don't need to pay money for it, not that you can modify it until it stops working and nobody understands why. Open Source Users will be aware of such problems when using Free Software, and check for reliability before depending on it. So instead of including a Warranty Disclaimer which could be invalid, the Wildebeest License seeks to ensure that reliability issues are documented. Note that Software is not patentable under European Law, though it can be covered by a patent for another invention which is. Also, Multiple Licensing is possible, so you can contact the Original Author if you believe the terms of the Wildebeest License need to be altered. 1: This version of the Wildebeest License is intended to be governed by the Legal System of England, which entitles Lawful Users to modify Software if necessary for their own use. You can correct it or adapt it to serve its intended purpose, study its operation and incorporate any underlying ideas into completely different Software licensed under other terms, and make as many Backup or Development Copies as you wish. 2: For Users this Software is intended as a Free Gift, available free of charge apart from incidental expenses, and free from any other obligation beyond the provisions of Copyright and other legal requirements. 3: If you distribute this Software or a modified version to other people, you must do so under the terms of this License. You must ensure that the relevant Documentation and Source Code are available. If you are aware of problems, you must check the Documentation and ensure they are described. This could mean adding Comment Statements to the Source Code as well as editing plaintext documents. 4: If you distribute an adaptation of this Software or a modified version, you must update the Documentation, identifying yourself and your changes. The Wildebeest License does not contain a Warranty Disclaimer, so this Documentation amounts to a Limited Warranty that within the resources available, you have tested the modified Software and that in your experience it functions as future Users are likely to expect. ==================================================== On Saturday 02 June 2012 00:07:58 Jakub Lach wrote: > I would add- > > "Some strange license? Ditch it, we > are not going to take chances." - Voice of > Responsible (TM) corporate management. > > Seriously, why they should pay for > legal expertise and still would not be > sure of (practical) consequences? > > Popular/known licenses are hard enough... > > And if stake is high enough some obvious > things easily can become debatable. > > But interesting idea nonetheless, I would > like to read it again after feeling somewhat > comfortable (If this time comes at all) with > EU IP law and seek for possible problems. > > But it has theoretical value at best. > > -- > View this message in context: > http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/BSD-license-tp5632493p5714091.html > Sent from the freebsd-advocacy mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 3 17:25:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AD831065675 for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 17:25:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy6-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy6.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a6]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4BC1A8FC15 for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2012 17:25:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 21264 invoked by uid 0); 3 Jun 2012 17:25:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by cpoproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2012 17:25:39 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date; bh=qiPIFaCX8c/ZpQgpEUokmSJDtZFIYTcjXtTb96emerQ=; b=fX3CNDswH/6L732vLqcEu1vNfiOoIHg8XjNbWR+tPL11yRgFEvfvvBq34JOa8yxaa4RSgIAxHoMi4oX6yWC96xvKDnx5jRkW6g186guocwfQZfFPGYbfSrm+bN6ljhNA; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=63945 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SbEYc-0001Ld-E6; Sun, 03 Jun 2012 11:25:38 -0600 Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 11:25:37 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: Doug Barton Message-ID: <20120603172537.GA31094@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: Doug Barton , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org References: <4FCABA18.4020405@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4FCABA18.4020405@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Good resources for BSDL vs. GPL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2012 17:25:39 -0000 On Sat, Jun 02, 2012 at 06:12:56PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > Does anyone have a good resource for an objective discussion of GPL vs. > BSDL? The upstream for one of the ports I maintain is considering > switching licenses, and I'd like to present some non-inflammatory facts > for him to consider. > > Please cc me on replies, since I'm not subscribed to this list. I think you may find it difficult to track down resources that appear entirely nonpartisan *and* do not present inaccurate views of how software licensing works. There is a fair bit of misunderstanding on the issue in the world. Those who actually know a fair bit about the matter tend to have gotten to that point because of an intense interest motivated by a distinct preference for one or the other. That having been said, I'll direct you to some resources I think are convincing as counterpoints to common "wisdom", explaining some instances where reality diverges from what a lot of people believe they know about how open source licensing works, particularly on the matter of copyfree licenses (such as the various BSD licenses) versus copyleft licenses (such as the various GNU licenses). The following list (presented in alphabetical order) is long. I'm afraid the vagueness of the specific conditions of your need for such references makes it difficult for me to narrow down the list items to the most relevant. I hope this helps. If you have concerns not addressed in this list, let me know and I'll see if I can dig something up or otherwise help out. Advancement Through License Simplicity http://univacc.net/?page=license_simplicity (relevant to technical and social benefits of permissive licensing) Advocacy's Fifth Column http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=972 (relevant to advocacy effectiveness) BSD/Copyfree vs. Corporate Copyleft http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=622 BSD License Vs. Copyright Assignment http://lwn.net/Articles/368449/ Choose The Right Licensing Model For Security Software http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/security/?p=610 (relevant to technical and social benefits of permissive licensing) Code Reuse and Technological Advancement http://blogstrapping.com/?page=2011.060.00.28.21 (relevant to technical and social benefits of permissive licensing) Copyfree Initiative http://copyfree.org/ Copyfree Is Not The New Copyleft. http://blog.appamatto.com/2011/12/04/copyfree-is-not-the-new-copyleft.html Copyfree vs Copyleft http://www.wikivs.com/wiki/Copyfree_vs_Copyleft GNU/Linux vs. Open Source Software http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=607 GPL vs BSD http://eksith.wordpress.com/2008/11/24/gpl-vs-bsd/ Legal Considerations When Using Free Software In IT Consulting Projects http://www.techrepublic.com/project-management/?p=1363 MEPIS GPL Compliance FAQ http://www.mepis.org/gpl-compliance-faq (relevant to the unintended consequences of the GPL) MS: Freedom Is Slavery; FSF: Slavery Is Freedom http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=70 Promote Openness: Custom Applications And Standardized Formats http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=2248 (relevant to promoting open data formats) RMS And The FSF: One Map, One Flashlight, No Ass In Sight http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=79 The Economic Case Against the GPL http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=928 The Problem With GPL Thinking http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=236 Why Copyfree http://files.stdrand.com/why_copyfree.txt Why We Should Allow DRM On Open Source Platforms http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=2633 (relevant to licenses that allow vs. disallow DRM) Why You Should Use A BSD Style License For Your Open Source Project http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/bsdl-gpl/article.html In the case of older articles, many links may be broken due to reorganizing at the target sites and other changes that could have resulted in target articles being moved or deleted. Full Disclosure: I wrote a lot of the articles listed above (though not all of them). -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 4 01:01:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A04FF106566B for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2012 01:01:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rhyous@yahoo.com) Received: from nm17-vm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm17-vm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.177]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 491FF8FC0A for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2012 01:01:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.138.90.49] by nm17.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2012 01:01:40 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.196] by tm2.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2012 01:01:40 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1054.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2012 01:01:40 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 857422.90469.bm@omp1054.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 64948 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2012 01:01:40 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1338771700; bh=zUq0yElyuHbZ6mpVG2Gk2VUUc0dW+Fl5bMy+9EY+KV8=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=o+6E0GC7eI5vd9hXLU2GNVy7o2KPw2OoIbm7VcZu2MIYC0E951pNhTpPaLGuCz3aC3cjqnHJcPlCLXJ8D8g35ZyIFnxGW4K0H6nyJfnu2EsQx/ZP9IGcRDYQUaBUwDX/t8D9lXnNaIp1QyJuUMmow63vkemhUJi5Qp0MRsPAxW0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=VvRdBz6Xir7Y6fgdk1ogN6DLxDqn2qZgzgorwCKYZYgAyyg+SBZ27FpNI0uGR4bYS+OtL9MuaixnwILMIPYAw/UU0XBQmvjk/IliUzH/+IsesklhW9dmuRoAxxA//hSeXVIxn83f10lkKrnUTwbbMBbKDigex08XNjT+icgoNAQ=; X-YMail-OSG: qD.C1koVM1lFq55hnD_cbA6Yp0SzJ1HiNHYdKnMS68V.KOI QlViBjTlm614QReI8RGaDrX_x2hPrhBsff4aFLjQvFk8mkqDWqnJJWkRP.3N Xnm9yVudj5R3lgQSPlm8niuAcmkWyz9V0Y98Ew1feM3nlzp3KDCax7AO6xmD l6BEun6d9NsodidaP3hV7PLGsaXc2e_3JqcQ.Tcu4OBA_EyEDMbOU5d1Z5JM 6w6WNvmvBbFmG5fZoBBpPAUUx4HT4O0K5KiTtRpVw_MGnsD9x9SUc9ZG2ceU uPnCeIAIgu0Pg_xEF76uKHH8TwsIva8feGZWw4JZBDHKYIF68m1uQTnIcI1o moOxcNddAx4xomzgJJwZKligfrCebiZI8NrqpTZL2qSD2Ab9gBA3EX8XixTA VK8_.jP96Bo7l9Q8Ki_YN1sYLxMRqFG5JELXzSUQjLt2HG6zUhOzguksiL2d fhXAr8Q8yXuCGfdm0mA_zXouIRtcjvC_GK0g3Ga3iaaPA2YwtZYxPt4IaJUx mty8U0pK_uFpqDlElW1zpCVBb6xuN0Okli.RDDxzdy6e8aKScgo118duq2uK ck8Aa1P1QOMqu2qp7S8w45zzkQXuglQVATQgPAQcdCAvGR0nS0Kn5DO._g1h WN4rQlNiV0CQIPC1tLzzCK57vA1cZkiwD_h12cxprFaA2jEc3sCSlAT6ZIRB b2nLl_hBA8BBN0TQKD2CjOUlCOntmBUqTZjz10qIk3g1Bj1.nbE5wPuhbqFm 3JwamgeYPAvw145HoVkhzO9fKyzln45FoqrP1vvfBrZnCeSOi32a5Ww5UcJT DKpwL0uN8H57Kt53UFO3.T.jPO8kEwwt7x2VFQXLHHpIcbGO3ZopOzSE8gS1 q35M0l4DpLE7l8MkeGY9iu5i.aPRZlS0N0tx0XRdORGkBwm1ntOCY4e4_LUV o.fgWOiSjQHXTfSDPDHiDRVjX3UryE5quFJ7hS3L.857NIihJYyt.28zENs6 M9QDoixEWSR_MJMafu4sT4v_siqKvWiZBWESdVQyYUgyNFTGdnA3xHD6lPZV 4aUvzlHkBxFlo81eu.I2LATsFOQT38cVwW2z3fZlccL68tqcOBlSkBgg.hVr uXIWj9OyV2dd.4.5m1kTFv.NSBAI0qoHpPDO7olUcF1vjMFaoMX8PpLANhax _G9kKfVcL8hUwipep.1iiuJExSQyv8fH0LLI41cYIJKRdbXiy1YtDYg2mCQl Mr1.j1Zcfp38Dd9rArPcPAWR9OtIhc7jt5S818CPakeWpFRLEbnJLyy8coZR Ll_56URJ5NXi.maNx0hcwhr.Biijkjh2FljjwR0PY7ptZetXBFGYZC5warJC v67UNyWXgiOLn.ibEyYs_bTNwB9QKY7Zf1zS0quRuVirOr5OgSTLz42YrkAV iLwmJL8iNxBk4bSy4iCp9kmQzsNg_yW4e6cUYyjFmFBK1ULpWLW3SE2iC6En _PBywchyYN2JNN8.USbGs8mIQx0RS7lUKoebS1KfHUAZRTK017d.qmMGCMat upCVQv4pF_Ws8CjoZjr5b4SHVjsYnsJ7moUNBAZwQQNdOaQDMqw4k2Lv.KhC H4l3xQHYmB0X.U5aXRgG5Cfv1G.7Pv5lW5tA_ Received: from [67.182.199.133] by web130206.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Jun 2012 18:01:39 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.118.349524 References: <4FCABA18.4020405@FreeBSD.org> <20120603172537.GA31094@hemlock.hydra> Message-ID: <1338771699.64933.YahooMailNeo@web130206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 18:01:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jared Barneck To: Chad Perrin , Doug Barton In-Reply-To: <20120603172537.GA31094@hemlock.hydra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: "freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: Good resources for BSDL vs. GPL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Jared Barneck List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2012 01:01:46 -0000 I helped out with licensing at my last company and I wrote this, mostly for= the table it contains.=0Ahttp://www.rhyous.com/2010/04/02/differences-betw= eent-the-bsdfreebsd-copyrights-and-the-the-gnu-public-license-gpl/=A0=0A=0A= =A0=0AJared Barneck=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Chad = Perrin =0ATo: Doug Barton =0ACc: f= reebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org =0ASent: Sunday, June 3, 2012 11:25 AM=0ASubjec= t: Re: Good resources for BSDL vs. GPL?=0A =0AOn Sat, Jun 02, 2012 at 06:12= :56PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote:=0A> Does anyone have a good resource for an= objective discussion of GPL vs.=0A> BSDL? The upstream for one of the port= s I maintain is considering=0A> switching licenses, and I'd like to present= some non-inflammatory facts=0A> for him to consider.=0A> =0A> Please cc me= on replies, since I'm not subscribed to this list.=0A=0AI think you may fi= nd it difficult to track down resources that appear=0Aentirely nonpartisan = *and* do not present inaccurate views of how=0Asoftware licensing works.=A0= There is a fair bit of misunderstanding on the=0Aissue in the world.=A0 Th= ose who actually know a fair bit about the matter=0Atend to have gotten to = that point because of an intense interest=0Amotivated by a distinct prefere= nce for one or the other.=0A=0AThat having been said, I'll direct you to so= me resources I think are=0Aconvincing as counterpoints to common "wisdom", = explaining some instances=0Awhere reality diverges from what a lot of peopl= e believe they know about=0Ahow open source licensing works, particularly o= n the matter of copyfree=0Alicenses (such as the various BSD licenses) vers= us copyleft licenses=0A(such as the various GNU licenses).=0A=0AThe followi= ng list (presented in alphabetical order) is long.=A0 I'm afraid=0Athe vagu= eness of the specific conditions of your need for such references=0Amakes i= t difficult for me to narrow down the list items to the most=0Arelevant.=A0= I hope this helps.=A0 If you have concerns not addressed in this=0Alist, l= et me know and I'll see if I can dig something up or otherwise=0Ahelp out.= =0A=0A=A0 =A0 Advancement Through License Simplicity=0A=A0 =A0 http://univa= cc.net/?page=3Dlicense_simplicity=0A=A0 =A0 (relevant to technical and soci= al benefits of permissive licensing)=0A=0A=A0 =A0 Advocacy's Fifth Column= =0A=A0 =A0 http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=3D972=0A=A0 =A0 (relevant to advocacy= effectiveness)=0A=0A=A0 =A0 BSD/Copyfree vs. Corporate Copyleft=0A=A0 =A0 = http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=3D622=0A=0A=A0 =A0 BSD License Vs. Copyright Ass= ignment=0A=A0 =A0 http://lwn.net/Articles/368449/=0A=0A=A0 =A0 Choose The R= ight Licensing Model For Security Software=0A=A0 =A0 http://blogs.techrepub= lic.com.com/security/?p=3D610=0A=A0 =A0 (relevant to technical and social b= enefits of permissive licensing)=0A=0A=A0 =A0 Code Reuse and Technological = Advancement=0A=A0 =A0 http://blogstrapping.com/?page=3D2011.060.00.28.21=0A= =A0 =A0 (relevant to technical and social benefits of permissive licensing)= =0A=0A=A0 =A0 Copyfree Initiative=0A=A0 =A0 http://copyfree.org/=0A=0A=A0 = =A0 Copyfree Is Not The New Copyleft.=0A=A0 =A0 http://blog.appamatto.com/2= 011/12/04/copyfree-is-not-the-new-copyleft.html=0A=0A=A0 =A0 Copyfree vs Co= pyleft=0A=A0 =A0 http://www.wikivs.com/wiki/Copyfree_vs_Copyleft=0A=0A=A0 = =A0 GNU/Linux vs. Open Source Software=0A=A0 =A0 http://sob.apotheon.org/?p= =3D607=0A=0A=A0 =A0 GPL vs=A0BSD=0A=A0 =A0 http://eksith.wordpress.com/2008= /11/24/gpl-vs-bsd/=0A=0A=A0 =A0 Legal Considerations When Using Free Softwa= re In IT Consulting Projects=0A=A0 =A0 http://www.techrepublic.com/project-= management/?p=3D1363=0A=0A=A0 =A0 MEPIS GPL Compliance FAQ=0A=A0 =A0 http:/= /www.mepis.org/gpl-compliance-faq=0A=A0 =A0 (relevant to the unintended con= sequences of the GPL)=0A=0A=A0 =A0 MS: Freedom Is Slavery; FSF: Slavery Is = Freedom=0A=A0 =A0 http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=3D70=0A=0A=A0 =A0 Promote Open= ness: Custom Applications And Standardized Formats=0A=A0 =A0 http://blogs.t= echrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=3D2248=0A=A0 =A0 (relevant to promoting o= pen data formats)=0A=0A=A0 =A0 RMS And The FSF: One Map, One Flashlight, No= Ass In Sight=0A=A0 =A0 http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=3D79=0A=0A=A0 =A0 The Ec= onomic Case Against the GPL=0A=A0 =A0 http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3D928=0A=0A= =A0 =A0 The Problem With GPL Thinking=0A=A0 =A0 http://sob.apotheon.org/?p= =3D236=0A=0A=A0 =A0 Why Copyfree=0A=A0 =A0 http://files.stdrand.com/why_cop= yfree.txt=0A=0A=A0 =A0 Why We Should Allow DRM On Open Source Platforms=0A= =A0 =A0 http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=3D2633=0A=A0 =A0 (r= elevant to licenses that allow vs. disallow DRM)=0A=0A=A0 =A0 Why You Shoul= d Use A BSD Style License For Your Open Source Project=0A=A0 =A0 http://www= .freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/bsdl-gpl/article.html=0A=0AIn the= case of older articles, many links may be broken due to=0Areorganizing at = the target sites and other changes that could have=0Aresulted in target art= icles being moved or deleted.=0A=0AFull Disclosure: I wrote a lot of the ar= ticles listed above (though not=0Aall of them).=0A=0A-- =0AChad Perrin [ or= iginal content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]=0A__________________= _____________________________=0Afreebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list= =0Ahttp://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy=0ATo unsubscr= ibe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 5 19:48:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40442106566C for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2012 19:48:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bruce@cran.org.uk) Received: from muon.cran.org.uk (muon.cran.org.uk [93.89.92.64]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E907A8FC08 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2012 19:48:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from muon.cran.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by muon.cran.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82AFEE643B; Tue, 5 Jun 2012 20:48:45 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=cran.org.uk; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=mail; bh=83ksgIQzeBQ7 UUnIyvoYSFl2/Oc=; b=DP4xm2iuIGMCHioF33CIWV7SQGaeNw35ECB3hfyb/WvM YL3Ew+Opef6oRT6Nq7RBfnXhpQJOJJrxhyjchUfjTcQBN8IftED8XaPkMK8YzIr+ J11GnLF7/DGsand0ZKklrmtTS38PrOUrh4UT2GcsIRpt3nezR9PEpsF6cGSvTiU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=cran.org.uk; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=mail; b=ECNwQu kpDlC9QP2ragSrG34NFGktBV1anTqHQvTibjVtYstCT0GzrDM+HE19k8BqwfzUz5 jG4iLQ+ZugSeoytVTNwluiQl5q9QukWiQzQASdziZVUR3k5fMZZ2zDo76WfmiArC YO8q7z1+L5+Xs2TLXMdHpf08dquJgpN7aPMx0= Received: from [192.168.2.11] (unknown [93.89.81.205]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by muon.cran.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 59728E643A; Tue, 5 Jun 2012 20:48:45 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <4FCE6273.9030909@cran.org.uk> Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2012 20:48:03 +0100 From: Bruce Cran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benjamin Francom References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netflix's New Peering Appliance Uses FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2012 19:48:05 -0000 [cc freebsd-advocacy] On 05/06/2012 16:56, Benjamin Francom wrote: > I just saw this, and thought I'd share: > > Open Connect Appliance Software > > Netflix delivers streaming content using a combination of intelligent > clients, a central control system, and a network of Open Connect appliances. > > When designing the Open Connect Appliance Software, we focused on these > fundamental design goals: > > - Use of Open Source software > - Ability to efficiently read from disk and write to network sockets > - High-performance HTTP delivery > - Ability to gather routing information via BGP > > Operating System > > For the operating system, we use FreeBSD version > 9.0. This was selected for its balance of stability and features, a strong > development community and staff expertise. We will contribute changes we > make as part of our project to the community through the FreeBSD committers > on our team. > Web server > > We use the nginx web server for its proven > scalability and performance. Netflix audio and video is served via HTTP. > Routing intelligence proxy > > We use the BIRD Internet routing daemon to enable > the transfer of network topology from ISP networks to the Netflix control > system that directs clients to sources of content. > Acknowledgements > > We would would like to express our thanks to the FreeBSD community, the > nginx community, and Ondrej and the BIRD team for providing excellent open > source software. We also work directly with Igor, Maxim, Andrew, Sergey, > Ruslan and the rest of the team at nginx.com, who > provide superb development support for our project." > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 6 20:40:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD081106564A for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2012 20:40:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from petrus4@tpg.com.au) Received: from mail13.tpgi.com.au (smtp-out13.tpgi.com.au [220.244.226.123]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A8308FC1F for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2012 20:40:02 +0000 (UTC) X-TPG-Junk-Checked: Yes X-TPG-Junk-Status: Message not scanned because user authenticated using SMTP AUTH X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tpg.com.au; s=alpha; t=1339013851; bh=/tbIcDlfbhwy66S+xnM3O+HWXxpsb5sy51NNtFwGEDM=; h=X-TPG-Abuse:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=ljxK9gpDQwdIiXH5meOO4fmdxB1NmntaRnYg5+JQ7JTno+PgUYe6zVgFa3Q7qQcjB jnXn0aw7zxW9wlDxP9HWv+jflyEdTvUiYeuWr1WUQm+TBOY5XPa0VltTkEDiXi3Nhv Io5FmZSx3EDX16iXAbOoyhTNUN8ksshzMwWMrD+0= X-TPG-Abuse: host=60-240-17-168.static.tpgi.com.au; ip=60.240.17.168; date=Thu, 7 Jun 2012 06:17:30 +1000; auth=bsIm//OXBk4aG3K+66mH4jMi3tV2dKV1ZihsK1tit1o= Received: from [192.168.1.3] (60-240-17-168.static.tpgi.com.au [60.240.17.168]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail13.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from petrus4@tpg.com.au) (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q56KHQ4Q023512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2012 06:17:30 +1000 Message-ID: <4FCFBAD5.1030308@tpg.com.au> Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 06:17:25 +1000 From: Petrus User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Request for advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2012 20:40:03 -0000 Hello, I'm currently planning on taking the BSD Association certification, as described here. (http://www.bsdcertification.org/) Although I am primarily doing so for personal, rather than economic reasons, I did want to ask whether or not it possibly *would* add to a resume, in the opinions of people here. As much as I've loved using FreeBSD myself, I've been looking for trend and market share numbers on the Web recently, and what I've found has been fairly depressing; the indication usually seems to be a gradual, long term decline of the three major BSDs, with virtually all UNIX market share moving in the direction of Debian Linux. With that said, I've also noticed that FreeBSD is still visible on Netcraft's list of the most reliable ISPs. I consider this tragic, because after close to 15 years of at least intermittent use of both systems, I have developed a belief that FreeBSD is vastly technically superior to any form of Linux that I have used, including Debian. So I wanted to ask; how possible is it still, to become gainfully employed as a BSD administrator? Once I have the BSD certification, will it be necessary to concede to reality, and also seek certification in Linux as well? I have long considered that idea, but the problem is that Linux training generally costs a minimum of $2,000, and I do not have that type of money available. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 7 06:13:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57DE1065672 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2012 06:13:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from csc2012conference@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C8938FC15 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2012 06:13:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so599520pbb.13 for ; Wed, 06 Jun 2012 23:13:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:mime-version:content-type :x-priority:x-msmail-priority:importance:x-mailer:x-mimeole; bh=4syhGTutmYKkBY/fLkQb9P8+AolAf3Q3rjAuvYkomBw=; b=NvVxRtMXc+1fuXPR3tbBuRhR2dzSpSeSDSsAN6XufGBb/CaC63S9M3GOSq6Dpo4/ja 59/iROm+6+v3bl2oITbZ7Q+fEdA1DBIESfe0UbfwgEgcDTIy16pVi0rl/+zLIzvupJSq qPYvd2RmilFjcZyeN14eTV0Z/uq4J6irSx3hodzz2DGDlCbG3OXHEIo0My0t3W3gm+uc dOoFxzE+Um/Hhyg0XDWzwGtPEMsp62LlwPeQ+TvXzgPoaNl7KSSKL9zinjMD0KC6Xkq/ gzLINO1mrXHAjATQ4etPRdsC+VmYCAJUN6EOZOFB2AmW5T7D3xXnM3JSLyou/CGJ1jeC FxsQ== Received: by 10.68.195.106 with SMTP id id10mr4955174pbc.116.1339049599013; Wed, 06 Jun 2012 23:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KeinPC ([202.120.38.3]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id pe2sm2975595pbc.59.2012.06.06.23.13.13 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 06 Jun 2012 23:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: "Minglu Li" To: Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 14:13:08 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3555.308 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3555.308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: IEEE CSC 2012 Call for Paper X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 06:13:19 -0000 Call for papers: The IEEE International Conference on Cloud and Service Computing (CSC = 2012) Nov. 22-24, 2012, Shanghai, China. Website: http://www.cs.sjtu.edu.cn/csc2012/ Key dates: Submission Deadline: July 15, 2012 Submission site: https://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=3Dcsc2012 Publication: Proceedings will be published by IEEE Press and indexed by EI. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Introduction The IEEE International Conference on Cloud and Service Computing (CSC) = is a cross-area international forum on cloud computing and service = computing. CSC2012 will be held in Shanghai with the aim of bringing = together researchers, developers, users, and practitioners interested in = cloud computing and service computing. CSC (Cloud Service Computing) is created to provide a prime = international forum for both researchers and industry practitioners to = exchange the latest fundamental advances in the state of the art and = practice of Cloud computing as well as joint-venture and synergic = research and development in this area. Scope and Topics: Topics of particular interest include, but are not limited to: Architecture & Foundations of Cloud & Service Computing=20 l IaaS & PaaS=20 l Service-Oriented Architectures l Virtualization of Hardware & Software Resources l Sensors, Devices, Embedded Systems, etc. in Cloud & Service = Computing l P2P, Pervasive Networks & Communications=20 Software, Services & Tools in Cloud & Service Computing=20 l SaaS, EaaS, Web Service, Semantic Web, Ubiquitous Service, = etc. l Design, Testing & Evaluation Tools in Cloud & Service = Computing l Cyber-Physical Systems in Cloud & Service Computing l Software Engineering in Cloud & Service Computing Security, Dependability, Trust & Quality in Cloud & Service Computing l Quality of Service in Cloud & Service Computing l Security Models & Quantifications l Dependability Models & Evaluation Algorithms l Trusted Computing & Autonomic Computing in Cloud & Service = Computing l Hardware and Software Reliability, Verification and Testing l Fault Diagnosis, Health Monitoring & Fault tolerance in Cloud = & Service Computing l Job Scheduling, Load Balancing, Performance Evaluation & = Improvement in Cloud & Service Computing Knowledge & Data Engineering in Cloud & Service Computing l Semantic Knowledge Portals=20 l Web Knowledge Discovery=20 l Large-Scale Distributed Knowledge Management=20 l Ontology Information/ Knowledge/Service Integration=20 l Knowledge Flow Network=20 l Internet-based Knowledge Engineering and Software Engineering Business Models of Cloud & Service Computing l Pricing and Billing Models l Cloud & Service Computing Eco-System l Case Study Submission Guidelines: Submissions must include an abstract, keywords, the e-mail address of = the corresponding author and should not exceed 8 pages for main = conference and 6 pages for workshops/symposia, including tables and = figures in IEEE CS format. The template files for LATEX or WORD can be = downloaded on CSC2012 Website. All paper submissions must represent = original and unpublished work. Each submission will be peer reviewed by = at least three program committee members. Submission of a paper should = be regarded as an undertaking that, should the paper be accepted, at = least one of the authors will register for the conference and present = the work. Submit your paper(s) in PDF file at the CSC2012 submission = site: https://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=3Dcsc2012. Authors of = accepted papers, or at least one of them, are requested to register and = present their work at the conference, otherwise their papers may be = removed from the digital libraries of IEEE CS and EI after the = conference. Publications: Accepted and presented papers will be included into the IEEE Conference = Proceedings published by IEEE CS Press (pending). Authors of accepted = papers, or at least one of them, are requested to register and present = their work at the conference, otherwise their papers may be removed from = the digital libraries of IEEE CS and EI after the conference.=20 Honorary Chair: l Wenjun Zhang, Vice President, Shanghai Jiaotong University, = China l Deyi Li, Chinese Academy of Engineering, China General Chairs: l Minglu Li, Shanghai Jiaotong University, China=20 l Xian-He Sun, Illinois Institute of Technology, USA l Frank Wang, University of Kent, UK Program Chairs: l Jian Cao, Shanghai Jiaotong University, China l Jinjun Chen, University of Technology, Sydney, AUS l Bo Li, The Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, = China Program Vice Chairs: l Bo Hong, Georgia Institute of Technology, USA l Xin Yuan, Florida State University, USA l Hongzi Zhu, Shanghai Jiaotong University, China Publicity Chairs: l Xin Wang, Fudan University, China l Wanchun Dou, Nanjing University, China Workshop Chairs: l Zhiming Zhao, University of Amsterdam, Netherland l Ming Liu, Tongji University, China Panel Chairs: l Jiacun Wang, Monmouth University, USA Publication Chairs: l Guangtao Xue, Shanghai Jiaotong University, China l Xing Wu, Shanghai University, China Finance and Registration Chairs: l Wenting Lian, Chinese Institute of Electronics, China Local Organization Chairs: l Meiju Cheng, Shanghai Jiaotong University, China Program Commitee: l CSC2012 committee includes leading researchers from academia = and industry. The list will be made available at the conference web = site. Steering Committee: l Deyi Li (Chair), Chinese Academy of Engineering, China =20 l Rulin Liu, Chinese Institute of Electronics, China l Jie Wu, Temple University, USA l Weiming Zheng, Tsinghua University, China l Jiannong Cao, Hong Kong Polytechnic University, China l Shi Ying, State Key Lab of Software Engineering, Wuhan = University, China Conference Secretarians: l Runhua Lin, Chinese Institute of Electronics, China Important Dates: l Submission deadline: 15 July, 2012 l Notification of acceptance: 20 Aug. 2012 l Final manuscript due: 15 Sept. 2012 l Conference: 22 =A8C 24 Nov. 2012 Further Contracts: l Wenting Lian, lian_wenting@ciecloud.org.cn l Chenyang Liu, CSC2012conference@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 7 09:07:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DFF0106564A for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2012 09:07:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 405178FC0A for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2012 09:07:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44F5E6867; Thu, 7 Jun 2012 09:07:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 132AF9A72; Thu, 7 Jun 2012 11:07:39 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Petrus References: <4FCFBAD5.1030308@tpg.com.au> Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 11:07:38 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4FCFBAD5.1030308@tpg.com.au> (Petrus's message of "Thu, 07 Jun 2012 06:17:25 +1000") Message-ID: <86fwa7sd5x.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Request for advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 09:07:40 -0000 Petrus writes: > Although I am primarily doing so for personal, rather than economic > reasons, I did want to ask whether or not it possibly *would* add to a > resume, in the opinions of people here. What you should ask yourself instead is "can it possibly hurt?" > So I wanted to ask; how possible is it still, to become gainfully > employed as a BSD administrator? Once I have the BSD certification, > will it be necessary to concede to reality, and also seek > certification in Linux as well? It is undoubtedly much easier to get a Linux job than a BSD job, unless you are willing to relocate to where the BSD jobs are. > I have long considered that idea, but the problem is that Linux > training generally costs a minimum of $2,000, and I do not have that > type of money available. I got LPIC-1 without any training, after only a few months of using Linux. There is a lot of overlap with FreeBSD and other Unices. The exam itself costs $173 at any Pearson VUE location. The BSDA exam costs $75 and is usually given at F/OSS conferences and user group meetings. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no