From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 22 16:53:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72868106566C for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 16:53:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A9738FC08 for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 16:53:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C48146B17; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 12:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 17:53:58 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Matthew Jacob In-Reply-To: <500752CD.9030107@feral.com> Message-ID: References: <3CE55F29-A5B2-44A7-8854-1ED38BAE6F16@FreeBSD.org> <50075072.5050906@gmail.com> <500752CD.9030107@feral.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: aio in GENERIC? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 16:53:59 -0000 On Wed, 18 Jul 2012, Matthew Jacob wrote: > What practically does aio offer that is not achieved via pthreads other than > slightly simpler code? Although the VFS side of the AIO code blocks kernel threads during in-progress I/O, the socket side is able to do fully asynchronous I/O down the stack without committing a kernel thread to it. As such, it probably is actually significantly more scalable, allowing larger numbers of simultaneous outstanding I/Os in the network layer, and more efficiently than simply using threads. Robert From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 23 07:51:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3D921065675; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 07:51:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C768FC18; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 07:51:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from JRE-MBP-2.local (c-67-180-24-15.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.180.24.15]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q6N7pm32030804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Jul 2012 00:51:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <500D028F.2040904@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 00:51:43 -0700 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson References: <3CE55F29-A5B2-44A7-8854-1ED38BAE6F16@FreeBSD.org> <50075072.5050906@gmail.com> <500752CD.9030107@feral.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Matthew Jacob , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: aio in GENERIC? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 07:51:56 -0000 On 7/22/12 9:53 AM, Robert Watson wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Jul 2012, Matthew Jacob wrote: > >> What practically does aio offer that is not achieved via pthreads >> other than slightly simpler code? > > Although the VFS side of the AIO code blocks kernel threads during > in-progress I/O, the socket side is able to do fully asynchronous > I/O down the stack without committing a kernel thread to it. As > such, it probably is actually significantly more scalable, allowing > larger numbers of simultaneous outstanding I/Os in the network > layer, and more efficiently than simply using threads. this is the reason that the cisco web security appliance uses aio and kevent but is generally not threaded... > > Robert > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 23 13:36:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 677C6106566C for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 13:36:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mj@feral.com) Received: from ns1.feral.com (ns1.feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B4378FC08 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 13:36:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.135.103] (c-76-126-166-136.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.166.136]) (authenticated bits=0) by ns1.feral.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q6NDabcK037673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 06:36:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mj@feral.com) Message-ID: <500D5360.80607@feral.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 06:36:32 -0700 From: Matthew Jacob Organization: Feral Software User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <3CE55F29-A5B2-44A7-8854-1ED38BAE6F16@FreeBSD.org> <50075072.5050906@gmail.com> <500752CD.9030107@feral.com> <500D028F.2040904@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <500D028F.2040904@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (ns1.feral.com [192.67.166.1]); Mon, 23 Jul 2012 06:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: aio in GENERIC? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Matt Jacob List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 13:36:44 -0000 Thanks for all of the responses to my simplistic query. I really wanted to know what others thought about this. Way back in the day when I was splitting my programming time between Unix, RT-11 and RSX-11, I was much frustrated with Unix not having asynchronous I/O at the application level. Then when Unix acquired it, it was buggy forever. Then we got multithreaded applications, to a first approximation that seemed good enough. The scalability issue makes sense. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 24 23:22:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA1C4106566B; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 23:22:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaduk@mit.edu) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (DMZ-MAILSEC-SCANNER-5.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 623418FC08; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 23:22:47 +0000 (UTC) X-AuditID: 12074422-b7f1f6d00000090b-b6-500f2e46078c Received: from mailhub-auth-1.mit.edu ( [18.9.21.35]) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 46.FC.02315.64E2F005; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.103]) by mailhub-auth-1.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id q6ONMkOE029366; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:22:46 -0400 Received: from multics.mit.edu (MULTICS.MIT.EDU [18.187.1.73]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id q6ONMioB005516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:22:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kaduk@localhost) by multics.mit.edu (8.12.9.20060308) id q6ONMiDa016914; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:22:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Tim Kientzle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20120626063017.D05DA58081@chaos.jnpr.net> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (GSO 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrDIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixCmqrOumxx9gsPanlsXs6dOYLB4cesps cXVvvkVj9wdGBxaPGZ/ms3hcb7rK7rFv6V7GAOYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsEroymbTcYC84yVez9 +5q9gbGJqYuRk0NCwERiadMDFghbTOLCvfVsXYxcHEIC+xglNu7sZIRwNjBKHPvWAJU5wCSx 5PpWJgingVHiZvtbdpB+FgFtiUer29hAbDYBFYmZbzaC2SICyhKvmmeD2cwC6RLL7m0Bs4UF 5CUuHj7GDGJzCjhIXNr7gLWLkYODV8BR4nK3IsT89YwSnx+/BasRFdCRWL1/CtitvAKCEidn PmGBmGkpce7PdbYJjIKzkKRmIUktYGRaxSibklulm5uYmVOcmqxbnJyYl5dapGuql5tZopea UrqJERTI7C5KOxh/HlQ6xCjAwajEw/vzCV+AEGtiWXFl7iFGSQ4mJVFeTW3+ACG+pPyUyozE 4oz4otKc1OJDjBIczEoivHfXA5XzpiRWVqUW5cOkpDlYlMR5r6Xc9BcSSE8sSc1OTS1ILYLJ ynBwKEnweukCDRUsSk1PrUjLzClBSDNxcIIM5wEaXg1Sw1tckJhbnJkOkT/FqCglzqsCkhAA SWSU5sH1whLNK0ZxoFeEeZ1BqniASQqu+xXQYCagwc/DQK4uLklESEk1MHqrC6zIudalEKN7 5062789V0y513Dhffj1RXXODu714l2Lk3MRY7bQLwUzfNZQqrNoWbDpz7OaEJVfuRL301Cu8 cbnaxFXmX8GRh9nzZSdsXXnyWJ/v26Ap1cfPuxYdXffn/qv78ScPFquo7A6PPBfmtzLVT8L8 2Lu+7585Nq0oKeSUVFprla7EUpyRaKjFXFScCADhXXcnDwMAAA== Cc: Simon Gerraty , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Robert Millan Subject: Re: Allow user install X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 23:22:48 -0000 On Sat, 21 Jul 2012, Tim Kientzle wrote: > > > Does fakeroot itself require root permissions to run? > > I was under the impression that it used some form of > loopback mount which --- at least in FreeBSD --- still > requires root permissions. I thought it was an LD_PRELOAD wrapping g/setuid and friends. -Ben Kaduk From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 27 08:37:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB1DA106566B; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:37:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9815C8FC1A; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:37:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC596CD7; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:37:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0A34F8255; Thu, 26 Jul 2012 12:14:37 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Benjamin Kaduk References: <20120626063017.D05DA58081@chaos.jnpr.net> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 12:14:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Benjamin Kaduk's message of "Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:22:43 -0400 (EDT)") Message-ID: <86ipdarfqq.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.4 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Tim Kientzle , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Robert Millan , Simon Gerraty Subject: Re: Allow user install X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:37:09 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk writes: > Tim Kientzle writes: > > Does fakeroot itself require root permissions to run? Of course not. What would be the point if it did? > > I was under the impression that it used some form of > > loopback mount which --- at least in FreeBSD --- still > > requires root permissions. > I thought it was an LD_PRELOAD wrapping g/setuid and friends. It is. It actually wraps a large number of syscalls; it needs to keep track of what the wrapped program thinks the ownership and permissions of files it has created or modified are, etc. so you can do fakeroot the equivalent of "make all install package" and end up with a tarball that contains the right ownership and permission information. There is a competing implementation that uses PTRACE instead, which allows it to also handle static binaries. Unfortunately, FreeBSD's PTRACE breaks job control. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no