From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 3 05:20:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 112D2D87 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2012 05:20:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from martin.kelly4000@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oa0-f54.google.com (mail-oa0-f54.google.com [209.85.219.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF1118FC14 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2012 05:20:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n9so2984303oag.13 for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 21:20:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=4UZerF3AmxOmIuMqxOtIMVjV3c7Jwz9qiir+rvv2XVw=; b=TZU+l8gdrpmMJ4+kRQrcMcsIFwV563qOiqY6AU89N3GWCl7p1HfGSRv+qtyW14kcAh /ODhIH3fpQ6YGVNUp0c258sjk9saH35AWT3DkJ2eV5633A3ihtsTFLwQGbS13eP8x5VV bOME2abwg5+D6ddz7eFLQ//dZKv2vUnX8Ns/dVcHzZi225eOeZIqvICkysxDqypRXLzs VcTVTDONMPpxYiT418Ph5CAUwmFDTi3n4/2MXvRTRGcdwxY0vzcGuKV0cX35lGPtU/8M N3G6R8kWTpKar62ZpATaFGMCTIFobU9A4uBZVBcTsb9l3Cseg7jWjK0bdHyh+73oBK3M kFdg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.170.114 with SMTP id al18mr7441919oec.56.1354512050288; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 21:20:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.76.233 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Dec 2012 21:20:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1352882728.28075.140661153435965.302F0E4C@webmail.messagingengine.com> <87a9tw5qju.fsf@inbox.ru> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 16:20:50 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: Fwd: Unified BSD? From: Martin To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 05:20:51 -0000 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Martin Date: Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 4:20 PM Subject: Re: Unified BSD? To: Aleksej Saushev I can see how you could misunderstand what i said. My point was about that each of the BSD's use pkgsrc in a different way and the releases from FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD or DflyBSD don't all rely on the exact same packages for every release (i.e. NetBSD 6 and FreeBSD 9 do not use the same version of GNOME-2 desktop; poor example), and that generally per BSD release they generally blob the binaries that are compatible for that release together. While each of the aformentioned distros run on a different release schedule (i.e. FreeBSD will release a new version a lot quicker than per-say NetBSD). These two things in combination with each other make it harder for one to update even if all BSD's had certain standardized components related to binaries and compatibility. That was not saying one can't use pkgsrc to update or install packages on an earlier version of BSD persay FreeBSD 6 or how pkgsrc releases binaries and source. On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 4:09 AM, Aleksej Saushev wrote: > Martin writes: > > > The biggest fault i see with this idea is updates. Pkgsrc is generally > just > > one large blob of binaries or source that have been deemed stable and > > compatible with that current release of whichever BSD in question > > (generally archived by date). > > Sorry? This is just lie. pkgsrc is generally compatible with a lot more > than just current FreeBSD release. I have successfully used it on FreeBSD 6 > when it was forgotten upstream. > > > That means in its current form with each BSD > > on a different release schedule there would be incompatibilities for > those > > BSDs that don't update as frequently (namely NetBSD, OpenBSD & > > DragonflyBSD). Which means a change of how source and binaries are > archived > > not to mention pooled together. > > pkgsrc release cycle is shorter than that of any of all those operating > systems > you listed. > > > -- > HE CE3OH... > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 01:31:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2EC9D4D for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 01:31:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from prvs=1685a61a7f=evendas@krazer.com.br) Received: from krazer.com.br (usaimport.com.br [74.208.147.131]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7A908FC16 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 01:31:34 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=krazer.com.br; s=MDaemon; t=1354583454; x=1355188254; q=dns/txt; h=DomainKey-Signature: Received:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Message-ID; bh=/AGF6JRzB/J7iTsWt8UkF/2jJ0/KNRujXWNnXTa6qHA=; b=D xROS4so3PdK3sJe6Amh0Cm02eTDZRqMkXGZhjDhvYv2KUwe8X4gM+3TSkXvN+ph/ 2f+zLjyA8FNsSjoW8QZwEWPRVSpqm206fSb5irT6QkIyGtu6ERS0pUqX3LU9QVFJ dN3gqGiLFL+c/+IejiYUXl9mHxzMOlSY7WPSlXTt+o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=MDaemon; d=krazer.com.br; c=simple; q=dns; h=from:message-id; b=Cmw4SFJcVuCu6J2ebyrHfYo2vWLUO2sIS0cbPRU2JDYBHutoTfxPVpnqhBv1 B+08leIJp0JSKVvQKTz/0+YJjE3jSh6aAJSHOGy1XLTu6m4qasJkK2Lr4 WtyEKP5T6MJQiCEGnD+rBuH9ZeDdqSlF1dhHnEcoXWJMr3b2XWbE9k=; X-MDAV-Processed: allearth.com.br, Mon, 03 Dec 2012 23:10:54 -0200 Received: from krazer by allearth.com.br (MDaemon PRO v11.0.0) with ESMTP id md50003170641.msg for ; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 23:10:53 -0200 X-Spam-Processed: allearth.com.br, Mon, 03 Dec 2012 23:10:53 -0200 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-Authenticated-Sender: evendas@krazer.com.br X-MDRemoteIP: 74.208.167.75 X-Return-Path: prvs=1685a61a7f=evendas@krazer.com.br X-Envelope-From: evendas@krazer.com.br X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: "Vendas Krazer Technologies" To: Subject: =?utf-8?B?Tm92YSBDUEUgS3JhemVyIFNreSBTdGF0aW9uIDVHSHo=?= =?utf-8?B?IE4gLSBDUEUgQW50ZW5hIEludGVncmFkYSBkZSAxOGRCaQ==?= =?utf-8?B?IGUgQ29tIFNhw61kYSBwYXJhIEFudGVuYSBFeHRlcm5h?= Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 22:08:15 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=45652905_3502_4801_0078_850943129657" Message-ID: X-Mailer: Clientes Krazer X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 01:31:42 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=45652905_3502_4801_0078_850943129657 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lan=C3=A7amento CPE Krazer Sky Station 5GHz N Voc=C3=AA cliente pediu que a Krazer fizesse uma nova CPE num formato mais = estiloso, pequena, de menor tamanho e que tivesse novas funcionabilidade, m= ais especificamente acesso f=C3=A1cil ao bot=C3=A3o de reset, prote=C3=A7= =C3=A3o contra queima e a t=C3=A3o desejada SA=C3=8DDA PARA ANTENA EXTERNA!= !! 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Le= i Federal Brasil. ------=45652905_3502_4801_0078_850943129657-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 08:12:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCB482C2 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 08:12:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from netbsd@marino.st) Received: from shepard.synsport.net (mail.synsport.com [208.69.230.148]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 983F18FC08 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 08:12:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.31.9.103] (unknown [213.225.137.129]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by shepard.synsport.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E9C7435C7; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 02:02:22 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <50BDAE0C.90303@marino.st> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 09:02:20 +0100 From: John Marino User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:10.0) Gecko/20120129 Thunderbird/10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aleksej Saushev Subject: Re: Fwd: Unified BSD? References: <1352882728.28075.140661153435965.302F0E4C@webmail.messagingengine.com> <87a9tw5qju.fsf@inbox.ru> <87wqwyuyxb.fsf@inbox.ru> In-Reply-To: <87wqwyuyxb.fsf@inbox.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: misc@openbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 08:12:04 -0000 On 12/4/2012 07:14, Aleksej Saushev wrote: > Martin writes: > >> I can see how you could misunderstand what i said. >> >> My point was about that each of the BSD's use pkgsrc in a different way and >> the releases from FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD or DflyBSD don't all rely on the >> exact same packages for every release (i.e. NetBSD 6 and FreeBSD 9 do not >> use the same version of GNOME-2 desktop; poor example), and that generally >> per BSD release they generally blob the binaries that are compatible for >> that release together. > > No, pkgsrc is one for everyone, unless someone maintains his own branch. > As far as I know, only DragonFly and SmartOS do, though nothing serious > stops them from using original distribution. Thus NetBSD 6 and FreeBSD 9 use > the same version of GNOME, provided that they use supported pkgsrc branch. DragonFly has a git mirror mirror of the pkgsrc cvs repository, but its contents are identical to what is in cvs. I would not classify this as "maintaining its own branch". We use the same distribution as NetBSD. Just clarifying this statement to avoid misinformation. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 14:54:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D40C0EB for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 14:54:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from martin.kelly4000@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oa0-f54.google.com (mail-oa0-f54.google.com [209.85.219.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86C6A8FC08 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 14:54:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n9so5164907oag.13 for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 06:54:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=0hO+MTxQQl9KyCFIyFQ+vGgOLgdp2snLKG5Rj8mFZJU=; b=ZrjHo/sYQNY38SYaq5FM11hSIHFMHILsM0mEtS6AX7qI0wRHx870Lskurlg5R5DhRh XO19Mmj1yOnDQcp3U6Na6Xg3qXEoqy77lpz5dMYQi80dyKEshQJHSjUEFuwdwbIFN/3N 7cRZYi0YzgROv5sWg5EBoRcJBExjMf2n/TJWZrzBr+jNZpdvXd0qI6VXtflZD/RzXO4H GpK2mbgrqD1YwQKAmHx3vG7S86pEDm+tDPg8kjn4PzuYMl/z1UK0DoJICBpCllsggZ0S 0r5llpkPmHqWg+j/drZCFuGORiYCgacuTL3ZIdeZ6mD/3MQ8vmZpqJe2NsAjCk9ux76s vu5Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.1.164 with SMTP id 4mr11413280oen.47.1354632852109; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 06:54:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.76.233 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 06:54:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <50BDAE0C.90303@marino.st> References: <1352882728.28075.140661153435965.302F0E4C@webmail.messagingengine.com> <87a9tw5qju.fsf@inbox.ru> <87wqwyuyxb.fsf@inbox.ru> <50BDAE0C.90303@marino.st> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 01:54:11 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Fwd: Unified BSD? From: Martin To: John Marino Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: users@dragonflybsd.org, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, Aleksej Saushev , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 14:54:13 -0000 I understand that, what your not getting is that i am talking about the release schedule of the individual BSD distros not the release schedule of pkgsrc. On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 7:02 PM, John Marino wrote: > On 12/4/2012 07:14, Aleksej Saushev wrote: > >> Martin> >> writes: >> >> I can see how you could misunderstand what i said. >>> >>> My point was about that each of the BSD's use pkgsrc in a different way >>> and >>> the releases from FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD or DflyBSD don't all rely on >>> the >>> exact same packages for every release (i.e. NetBSD 6 and FreeBSD 9 do not >>> use the same version of GNOME-2 desktop; poor example), and that >>> generally >>> per BSD release they generally blob the binaries that are compatible for >>> that release together. >>> >> >> No, pkgsrc is one for everyone, unless someone maintains his own branch. >> As far as I know, only DragonFly and SmartOS do, though nothing serious >> stops them from using original distribution. Thus NetBSD 6 and FreeBSD 9 >> use >> the same version of GNOME, provided that they use supported pkgsrc branch. >> > > > DragonFly has a git mirror mirror of the pkgsrc cvs repository, but its > contents are identical to what is in cvs. I would not classify this as > "maintaining its own branch". We use the same distribution as NetBSD. > > Just clarifying this statement to avoid misinformation. > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 15:07:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 490A048D for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:07:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from martin.kelly4000@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECFD08FC16 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:07:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 16so4948642obc.13 for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 07:07:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=xpOSDC8OXj5gWrRLRKXtHcEKrDOEb3InglBqPIUhxug=; b=XIFW6CuV3Lfi2NqRtui9YPtwJY/5jR0KfZhUxEz2XgYr8/z3lzLOjxw0e9GyzJ3u1E 88bJ08RnNiKQxrkhSCts6iILLQPZQElXD0qpZe0AE3CS9bOpjaM0wsndJrlG1oWsWoWY HrluyGA5/OXsFImz75sDNskkOgKluPGC8vjvdNRDJXY0cgqIhIH3yQv5qW8tIwVnuG2C JBYqTfNh4ToohvjAxN/Rs2ivx+8N5N/6/bLdqEkTiMyeToSut2FKq1T+K4GED0stQWfC 2PHxeVfuEWYKLMSgmlLeKLhdic+ewF6H12AVhx8y91Jl8N4FmJUVHFAHhuQdrA2gDI1L aP+A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.240.50 with SMTP id vx18mr7842981obc.31.1354633626310; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 07:07:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.76.233 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 07:07:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1352882728.28075.140661153435965.302F0E4C@webmail.messagingengine.com> <87a9tw5qju.fsf@inbox.ru> <87wqwyuyxb.fsf@inbox.ru> <50BDAE0C.90303@marino.st> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 02:07:06 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Fwd: Unified BSD? From: Martin To: John Marino Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: users@dragonflybsd.org, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, Aleksej Saushev , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 15:07:07 -0000 Sorry forget that last message. GNOME was a bad example, but you did in essence you clarify my point. That FreeBSD or whichever one you talk about may or may not be using a different pkgsrc branch. I didn't call any components standardized, i said even if you *were* to standardize certain components for all BSDs (related to package management/ source) you still would have to get around the fact that each of them may use a different pkgsrc branch. Otherwise you wouldn't have the current differences in software compatibility where FreeBSD has what (28000 packages?) and NetBSD has (15000?) On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 1:54 AM, Martin wrote: > I understand that, what your not getting is that i am talking about the > release schedule of the individual BSD distros not the release schedule of > pkgsrc. > > > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 7:02 PM, John Marino wrote: > >> On 12/4/2012 07:14, Aleksej Saushev wrote: >> >>> Martin> >>> writes: >>> >>> I can see how you could misunderstand what i said. >>>> >>>> My point was about that each of the BSD's use pkgsrc in a different way >>>> and >>>> the releases from FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD or DflyBSD don't all rely on >>>> the >>>> exact same packages for every release (i.e. NetBSD 6 and FreeBSD 9 do >>>> not >>>> use the same version of GNOME-2 desktop; poor example), and that >>>> generally >>>> per BSD release they generally blob the binaries that are compatible for >>>> that release together. >>>> >>> >>> No, pkgsrc is one for everyone, unless someone maintains his own branch. >>> As far as I know, only DragonFly and SmartOS do, though nothing serious >>> stops them from using original distribution. Thus NetBSD 6 and FreeBSD 9 >>> use >>> the same version of GNOME, provided that they use supported pkgsrc >>> branch. >>> >> >> >> DragonFly has a git mirror mirror of the pkgsrc cvs repository, but its >> contents are identical to what is in cvs. I would not classify this as >> "maintaining its own branch". We use the same distribution as NetBSD. >> >> Just clarifying this statement to avoid misinformation. >> > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 15:15:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 614DB55B for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:15:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from netbsd@marino.st) Received: from shepard.synsport.net (mail.synsport.com [208.69.230.148]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27DC88FC08 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:15:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.31.9.103] (unknown [213.225.137.129]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by shepard.synsport.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D14E2435C7; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 09:15:30 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <50BE1391.7050009@marino.st> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 16:15:29 +0100 From: John Marino User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:10.0) Gecko/20120129 Thunderbird/10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Subject: Re: Fwd: Unified BSD? References: <1352882728.28075.140661153435965.302F0E4C@webmail.messagingengine.com> <87a9tw5qju.fsf@inbox.ru> <87wqwyuyxb.fsf@inbox.ru> <50BDAE0C.90303@marino.st> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: users@dragonflybsd.org, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, Aleksej Saushev , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 15:15:33 -0000 On 12/4/2012 16:07, Martin wrote: > Sorry forget that last message. > > GNOME was a bad example, but you did in essence you clarify my point. > That FreeBSD or whichever one you talk about may or may not be using a > different pkgsrc branch. > > I didn't call any components standardized, i said even if you _*were*_ > to standardize certain components for all BSDs (related to package > management/ source) you still would have to get around the fact that > each of them may use a different pkgsrc branch. > > Otherwise you wouldn't have the current differences in software > compatibility where FreeBSD has what (28000 packages?) and NetBSD has > (15000?) > The package count of the two systems is basically affected by lifespan (ports existed first) and manpower, so don't read into this. Ports has about 24000 unique packages, pkgsrc has around 10,800 unique packages (about 2000 are duplicated with multiple python, ruby, php combinations). The user has the option to stay on the branch suggested at the time of the release, or can migrate as he/she wants. In the case of DragonFly, it was catching up with fixing broken packages for a long time, so migrating to newest quarterly is generally recommended. I would say pkgsrc serves to standardize the systems that use it. I could install pkgsrc on OpenIndiana as an example and use the same software on that platform. John From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 15:42:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D048B44 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:42:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from martin.kelly4000@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E0458FC14 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:42:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 16so5003448obc.13 for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 07:42:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=D3NOHqbihydLktzO7g7xVAdHThYYLe6khWfdJozOaUA=; b=cosT3I1awoLdnTvFUPex/QqHdhadEMXKyzfgFbRNHer9hAQdUIT9JJLX3s9AaSqBsW bSgodC1d/Xu8+zjIvjAgJeMxwfMrPGKkSOWG2oeryB8cATm2ZpAGVqQ0+/4HPSjJ6CpJ tlEYe5Od4aOvw8fkYDWqJVLCurIlt5WiFBMECGmjZezML3+c0fDH14zxz82cNLSRIMRU ATh+XCDDloN8r+4t0yRCw8Bf8fSChIDAF348/m9k3xC8S+cJfxNI65CHGTdMZTVXy5mT yKZ0h4zkc3J84aZlaqbCYpZfHHx32eCBNu95QRnnHK8QCUARECkDOtUNS2Y3hTzU1LuV JHXQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.88.3 with SMTP id bc3mr7451408obb.8.1354635729412; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 07:42:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.76.233 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 07:42:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <50BE1391.7050009@marino.st> References: <1352882728.28075.140661153435965.302F0E4C@webmail.messagingengine.com> <87a9tw5qju.fsf@inbox.ru> <87wqwyuyxb.fsf@inbox.ru> <50BDAE0C.90303@marino.st> <50BE1391.7050009@marino.st> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 02:42:09 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Fwd: Unified BSD? From: Martin To: John Marino Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: users@dragonflybsd.org, misc@openbsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, Aleksej Saushev , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 15:42:10 -0000 Don't get me wrong, i am not criticising pkgsrc or intentionally trying get people offside. So aside from the obvious differences and limitations (i.e. manpower, design of each BSD system) What is stopping per say DragonflyBSD or any other BSD from using packages from FreeBSD or vice versa through pkgsrc? Or is it simply that some choose not to provide back to pkgsrc? On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 2:15 AM, John Marino wrote: > On 12/4/2012 16:07, Martin wrote: > >> Sorry forget that last message. >> >> GNOME was a bad example, but you did in essence you clarify my point. >> That FreeBSD or whichever one you talk about may or may not be using a >> different pkgsrc branch. >> >> I didn't call any components standardized, i said even if you _*were*_ >> >> to standardize certain components for all BSDs (related to package >> management/ source) you still would have to get around the fact that >> each of them may use a different pkgsrc branch. >> >> Otherwise you wouldn't have the current differences in software >> compatibility where FreeBSD has what (28000 packages?) and NetBSD has >> (15000?) >> >> > The package count of the two systems is basically affected by lifespan > (ports existed first) and manpower, so don't read into this. > > Ports has about 24000 unique packages, pkgsrc has around 10,800 unique > packages (about 2000 are duplicated with multiple python, ruby, php > combinations). > > The user has the option to stay on the branch suggested at the time of the > release, or can migrate as he/she wants. In the case of DragonFly, it was > catching up with fixing broken packages for a long time, so migrating to > newest quarterly is generally recommended. > > I would say pkgsrc serves to standardize the systems that use it. I could > install pkgsrc on OpenIndiana as an example and use the same software on > that platform. > > John > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 15:57:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C7A8F80 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:57:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from netbsd@marino.st) Received: from shepard.synsport.net (mail.synsport.com [208.69.230.148]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 060D98FC12 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:57:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.31.9.103] (unknown [213.225.137.129]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by shepard.synsport.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5668435C7; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 09:57:17 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <50BE1D5B.6060606@marino.st> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 16:57:15 +0100 From: John Marino User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:10.0) Gecko/20120129 Thunderbird/10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Subject: Re: Fwd: Unified BSD? References: <1352882728.28075.140661153435965.302F0E4C@webmail.messagingengine.com> <87a9tw5qju.fsf@inbox.ru> <87wqwyuyxb.fsf@inbox.ru> <50BDAE0C.90303@marino.st> <50BE1391.7050009@marino.st> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, Aleksej Saushev , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 15:57:19 -0000 On 12/4/2012 16:42, Martin wrote: > Don't get me wrong, i am not criticising pkgsrc or intentionally trying > get people offside. > > So aside from the obvious differences and limitations (i.e. manpower, > design of each BSD system) What is stopping per say DragonflyBSD or any > other BSD from using packages from FreeBSD or vice versa through pkgsrc? > > Or is it simply that some choose not to provide back to pkgsrc? > Recent work by myself has proven that it is feasible for DragonFly to use FreeBSD ports collection with an specialized overlay. So there's nothing technically stopping that from happening. Pkgsrc has a goal to be universal, so theoretically all platforms will benefit from contributing because the committer is ideally conscious that multiple platforms use it while FreeBSD ports committers only concern themselves with making the port work on FreeBSD. While pkgsrc supports FreeBSD and OpenBSD, in practice it seems most users of those systems tend to stick with FreeBSD Ports Collection and OpenBSD package system. You can speculate why that is. It takes a ton of work to keep a platform current on pkgsrc (which is why I used the words "theoretically" and "ideally") so somebody from those systems has to do that work, which means they have to consider that work worthwhile. I don't see activity to that effect. Pkgsrc would be happy to have parties from FreeBSD and OpenBSD improve the quality of the packages in the repository, I am quite sure of that. Somebody just needs to donate that energy. John From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 19:00:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E1EFB8E for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:00:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.62.230.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3238E8FC19 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:00:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Toshi.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2] (may be forged)) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14107 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 12:00:18 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 12:00:06 -0700 To: chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass Subject: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 19:00:21 -0000 Everyone: Today, I received a rather shocking the announcement: The FreeBSD Project's Web developer announced his intent to incorporate corporate spyware into the FreeBSD.org Web site. As you may or may not know, the so-called "Google Analytics" scripts do more than analyze the traffic which goes to a Web site. They also spy on its users, planting cookies in their browsers and tracking their activities on the Web for the exclusive benefit of one corporation: Google. What's more, at least one organization which is paid to lobby for Google in Washington, DC has announced that it does not intend to honor, and does not recommend that Web sites honor, the "Do Not Track" header. So, even if users are knowledgeable enough to cause their browsers to generate this header (most are not), there is no reason to trust Google to honor it. The FreeBSD project should not allow or condone such behavior -- which is a serious security risk and violation of visitors' privacy. Nor should it show favoritism toward a single corporation. I'd like to ask that the FreeBSD project set a good example for others by refusing to incorporate corporate spyware into its Web site. If it is desirable to gather statistics regarding the site, there are ways to do it that do not compromise visitors' privacy or execute invasive spyware on their machines. Sincerely, Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 19:08:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC6F4CBC for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:08:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nomadlogic@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f45.google.com (mail-vb0-f45.google.com [209.85.212.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E7208FC13 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:08:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vb0-f45.google.com with SMTP id p1so3927075vbi.18 for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 11:08:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Zm0x5Jj+jphktL3mXXxo6tb8rwaBMTtZg4dWJk6m67k=; b=f3ZiOYVKebfOpJMZnWu6HUPkzdejED8JovanyeQGBDyvkg/fdEE6vPuTmJah4uwGk5 Eq2p8a5IrccKgZlYCHP/jOKvNXB1sAUJCXp8ZUWuFZnH6RpOsfZG80Qfy/vk+PsuLKFG jYeudXbpt73HL584e/R5oH8cIMF1CFw77khtViSjAM5Pc4Aw2pWU26cig7aLPBQkSngu xZmriJVD5qleTBXucvkSPUi6bs9bqaDuw8baXVeGczxfyRUXtwWozvUBEwyhV9JyFSpM WF0U1IYa0Rbm/EjCwEFkq/RNerICRJ73aDR8IwYEiBKvnIhOP0xaBlVLOtlPeb/4GQXm PPKg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.89.68 with SMTP id bm4mr10820036vdb.129.1354648080886; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 11:08:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.221.230 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 11:08:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 11:08:00 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? From: pete wright To: Brett Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 19:08:02 -0000 On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Brett Glass wrote: > Everyone: > > Today, I received a rather shocking the announcement: The FreeBSD > Project's Web developer announced his intent to incorporate > corporate spyware into the FreeBSD.org Web site. > Do you have a link to this annoucement as well as an example of the Javascript that will deployed for dropping cookies and/or local-storage files from google that will deployed via *.freebsd.org servers? I'd be keen to see more info on this. Cheers, -pete -- pete wright www.nycbug.org @nomadlogicLA From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 19:21:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87C63CA for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:21:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-la0-f54.google.com (mail-la0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0270E8FC13 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:21:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-la0-f54.google.com with SMTP id j13so4551509lah.13 for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 11:21:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=NnrS/irio6UbgphsgvPpFFMBCrKs/LcvV6Cc9Sov+ec=; b=ZxpmS0TIuujvE6X5J1uBylJ15wtiKwMNOtnm4rmhPOpCmUgkAlnpysv17YggCW9Rhu uy0WuytyjbFYcJPMM2JkZYSX/Gm+733MUzCP/aszPrqoTYbDU5nt2p9TLyN6MzaLoLPo JKbXnKT88dg0EbcWWdREURMTb1qy1DgjXTW7U= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=NnrS/irio6UbgphsgvPpFFMBCrKs/LcvV6Cc9Sov+ec=; b=bsgyHtc4Yz+WNxXQ9BzZw27iVv7M855AfrdPUhXoZEUIqZmAi/NAf62NXU4CtjERPH qRtC6u2h6RksgrEWrkZdYYQhXRhHmQ3PE8iGEM61LxHdG+xTiVKDxktLg+E3wUauSsDE X9FP+jhSavctABtG43XVzjEaccZLyUasL7/NARP55NG2JYZohNH4/nRu/n3ZXfIAG4cr DA68zMG9jj2MYAmqsTPWIp3dSVLDe2ByvneKPWsquEqTuKBh+0IqhF5CF3icGBL02itL iZvo6dXY8HRyDlauus197mAIVED10kMIU3oFJMYzGRJ4+aViM4PNMbQk2mdvl7Z/r+Vc mDIw== Received: by 10.112.25.34 with SMTP id z2mr6247553lbf.125.1354648878294; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 11:21:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.4.134 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 11:20:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> From: Eitan Adler Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 14:20:48 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? To: Brett Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmsVQcfgpY/J3czpj5y4/lt5Dz7rskvPjt47kFkeyNqgL5scjJg4TTtejgG01wFSaCrnoDy Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 19:21:20 -0000 On 4 December 2012 14:00, Brett Glass wrote: > What's more, at least one organization which is paid to lobby for Google > in Washington, DC has announced that it does not intend to honor, and > does not recommend that Web sites honor, the "Do Not Track" header. > So, even if users are knowledgeable enough to cause their browsers to > generate this header (most are not), there is no reason to trust Google > to honor it. FreeBSD will be the party honoring it, not Google, even for non-conforming implementations of the DNT header. On 4 December 2012 14:08, pete wright wrote: > Do you have a link to this annoucement as well as an example of the > Javascript that will deployed for dropping cookies and/or > local-storage files from google that will deployed via *.freebsd.org > servers? I'd be keen to see more info on this. The full patch will be released shortly but it will look something like: if (window.navigator.doNotTrack !== "yes") { ( function() { var ga = document.createElement('script'); ga.type = 'text/javascript'; ga.async = true; ga.src = 'https://ssl.google-analytics.com/ga.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(ga, s); })(); } -- Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 19:30:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1B0A1F7 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:30:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bright@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86D778FC0C for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:30:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kruse-124.4.ixsystems.com (drawbridge.ixsystems.com [206.40.55.65]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42A881A3DE1; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 11:30:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50BE4F4B.4040602@mu.org> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 11:30:19 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> In-Reply-To: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 19:30:30 -0000 Brett, Can you please educate us more on these so called "cookies"? One would think that a cookie would be a delicious snack, even more so when you consider it combined with computers and especially the web. For how long have people been using these insidious "cookies" on the web? Are they as dangerous as you describe? I for one am seriously concerned about this issue as well. I was hoping for sweetness but I am now envisioning poison, sort of like the inevitable result of having Chipotle for lunch after a heavy night of drinking. -Alfred On 12/4/12 11:00 AM, Brett Glass wrote: > Everyone: > > Today, I received a rather shocking the announcement: The FreeBSD > Project's Web developer announced his intent to incorporate > corporate spyware into the FreeBSD.org Web site. > > As you may or may not know, the so-called "Google Analytics" scripts > do more than analyze the traffic which goes to a Web site. They also > spy on its users, planting cookies in their browsers and tracking their > activities on the Web for the exclusive benefit of one corporation: > Google. > > What's more, at least one organization which is paid to lobby for Google > in Washington, DC has announced that it does not intend to honor, and > does not recommend that Web sites honor, the "Do Not Track" header. > So, even if users are knowledgeable enough to cause their browsers to > generate this header (most are not), there is no reason to trust Google > to honor it. > > The FreeBSD project should not allow or condone such behavior -- > which is a serious security risk and violation of visitors' privacy. Nor > should it show favoritism toward a single corporation. > > I'd like to ask that the FreeBSD project set a good example for others > by refusing to incorporate corporate spyware into its Web site. If it > is desirable to gather statistics regarding the site, there are ways > to do it that do not compromise visitors' privacy or execute invasive > spyware on their machines. > > Sincerely, > Brett Glass > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 19:31:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AA0D257 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:31:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from nyi.unixathome.org (nyi.unixathome.org [64.147.113.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64A088FC12 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:31:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nyi.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DA41508FE for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:31:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at unixathome.org Received: from nyi.unixathome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (nyi.unixathome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yy44T83rRK42 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:31:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp-auth.unixathome.org (smtp-auth.unixathome.org [10.4.7.7]) (Authenticated sender: hidden) by nyi.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CC938508F2 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:31:51 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? From: Dan Langille In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 14:31:48 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8C4CD043-64B0-45F5-9E71-9CE0860E6097@langille.org> References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> To: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 19:31:59 -0000 On Dec 4, 2012, at 2:08 PM, pete wright wrote: > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Brett Glass wrote: >> Everyone: >> >> Today, I received a rather shocking the announcement: The FreeBSD >> Project's Web developer announced his intent to incorporate >> corporate spyware into the FreeBSD.org Web site. >> > > Do you have a link to this announcement http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2012-December/001441.html I am shocked that people on chat are not reading announce. -- Dan Langille - http://langille.org From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 19:59:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC874BAF for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:59:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-la0-f54.google.com (mail-la0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2178FC14 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:59:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-la0-f54.google.com with SMTP id j13so4587264lah.13 for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 11:59:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=/8A5r0z0iQs/DPYNNmw5/m5dVeruoH2hmArHxbVHHOA=; b=TSW1vjw6cMWL5eOJsqyVawmfHX3e4Igbfy57KvFczvcmKHvHv9YL9HdrOws1ll5mVt Dip0dX7iYx1xo8EVh2+HKSI6gKcVAMzj7Znd+GWjluZO48NJ2afvLPazazPEDXsohJID g1ICxxrqqjfNtBZNrE0KnUKG26SNSyqXaLCKY77VN/lll8GzR6GXeqSrtnwA+Cte+3cw 7c3Pyj4nS6LJhN+rAI/sDv728qyS0EHde7/aKfdQdR1egaH1O1GPYKkBEyjC2fu0evg6 kKdrD587YZoCWimy7VL8jjXUCibdD4yYQjq7PzSQPqUTfsAJn5Z0Shr/4puryGL6g09H og4w== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.25.34 with SMTP id z2mr6289688lbf.125.1354651146154; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 11:59:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.68.6 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 11:59:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8C4CD043-64B0-45F5-9E71-9CE0860E6097@langille.org> References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> <8C4CD043-64B0-45F5-9E71-9CE0860E6097@langille.org> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 11:59:05 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? From: Freddie Cash To: Dan Langille Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 19:59:07 -0000 I'm subscribed to both lists, and I have not yet received the announcement e-mail. So, it's not as cut-n-dried, black'n white, easy as "why aren't you readding announce". :) On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Dan Langille wrote: > > On Dec 4, 2012, at 2:08 PM, pete wright wrote: > > > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Brett Glass wrote: > >> Everyone: > >> > >> Today, I received a rather shocking the announcement: The FreeBSD > >> Project's Web developer announced his intent to incorporate > >> corporate spyware into the FreeBSD.org Web site. > >> > > > > Do you have a link to this announcement > > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2012-December/001441.html > > I am shocked that people on chat are not reading announce. > > -- > Dan Langille - http://langille.org > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 20:11:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEFC12AE for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:11:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nomadlogic@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f45.google.com (mail-vb0-f45.google.com [209.85.212.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AAD08FC14 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:11:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vb0-f45.google.com with SMTP id p1so4002643vbi.18 for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 12:11:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=NFucZ6FjtQvpDW81kETGvYVPYPAm/v/ZFqhkv+j0a4I=; b=QmDeY1lhAJu3Y19xCvVMMetjI6GXnsfkMC8+gEFbKUsVyyosrxAJ7Ei3pKYymcLiGn Vdg/WiX45gAo18vshlC/TfnguxkIljrimcBSiVM1iJoqWKXUqmhJlM+Jb9xYy0ND1jvq A5ccJ5HEqDcAkxDnO9MnmYH9+JLtdtLGvzRKYpHgs2zrALf4bZk6G6L0qsr8ULytbeXK 9r1+9EangN+uF20AU8fRlf4Jr4fu6xwklWToL5KxHUWBfRrTTTtXL7VDXkAq3UqVZ8Uu agmmfnXz9C8b828qnC9PhGpKpf4nRSenTg2glaGTS32XBS6wJWuk2DiU7dioRAK5WtRy cruA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.66.34 with SMTP id c2mr10819493vdt.62.1354651891169; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 12:11:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.221.230 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 12:11:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> <8C4CD043-64B0-45F5-9E71-9CE0860E6097@langille.org> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 12:11:31 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? From: pete wright To: Freddie Cash Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:11:32 -0000 On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Freddie Cash wrote: > I'm subscribed to both lists, and I have not yet received the announcement > e-mail. So, it's not as cut-n-dried, black'n white, easy as "why aren't > you readding announce". :) > +1 also the subject line on this thread was much more eye catching as well :) -pete -- pete wright www.nycbug.org @nomadlogicLA From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 20:14:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71A9130D for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:14:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D47828FC12 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:13:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lb0-f182.google.com with SMTP id go10so4733308lbb.13 for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 12:13:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=qqq8N4jVe2+U+TxvF84NF4/Ipq0/Bz1VDCgBEuQbgiw=; b=WXrWaDdFI6qiZut7DAas2upHfG+50eFsgrY1+BpbcPtZxVvtd40o/wRs/4Osa8rn2/ cHs3bbkcjaPNsRCqoEAw5Sg9xdaT4re6n8RUbICn/z+SsvmL8GTAa1EMLuUlYoKwdDPZ nbgSZV/mKnpnXseov9QchuXP3scXOcB7d0pfw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=qqq8N4jVe2+U+TxvF84NF4/Ipq0/Bz1VDCgBEuQbgiw=; b=Ze0iEE30LE55ny+SP3774xgooJkQlAPcv2qvTPiGzhq+WOvhW8Vu+6ReP82LnsH/30 jptwEbYPZ/B/DX5/AZaIY5IZDc+0LEJiWcSkXvGZxqVm7DYAXhHTwaK1iQy7205kj2Ro 9PXSgdBXpSsdLZedfIO2q8o7NHFep1ff7ENNkTf1tgiTyfnlkcot2889Y20qB2bKpby6 t9W6Hi87Mu4QGi0B5ypQrE9wd6fU1VwB1BBlcgAd3U4DCCCMIWSMCHilvbvTc2AxFqDk iGeqXkX7ZtgRVMt0B7yw1V5jGjIf8aKoWt9VhWHC/n6m5VdqAHRPEPHYolmScRmrZsj1 KcWg== Received: by 10.112.25.34 with SMTP id z2mr6306458lbf.125.1354652038478; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 12:13:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.4.134 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 12:13:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> <8C4CD043-64B0-45F5-9E71-9CE0860E6097@langille.org> From: Eitan Adler Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:13:28 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? To: pete wright Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnyKzkeQMBIWvWx3rmVlL55rmUSQpiNS2vL32NWnyzgcnQ6Fbbfe7MWLa/xGt40u5O5bLCw Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:14:00 -0000 On 4 December 2012 15:11, pete wright wrote: > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Freddie Cash wrote: >> I'm subscribed to both lists, and I have not yet received the announcement >> e-mail. So, it's not as cut-n-dried, black'n white, easy as "why aren't >> you readding announce". :) >> > > +1 > > also the subject line on this thread was much more eye catching as well :) It was also incorrect and misleading. GA is not "spyware". It may have properties you dislike but it is not (a) software installed on your computer (b) without notice (c) malicious. -- Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 20:21:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F02217FA for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:21:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nomadlogic@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92FD28FC16 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:21:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vc0-f182.google.com with SMTP id fo14so4567661vcb.13 for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 12:21:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=+MkEQNK9VWwHLn5Z61khsNDuOOnEuPifHr4oPzDMI/E=; b=l/2XawUuC+RVkWZy6oxAlKZWykH6QjxEx/NMao+VyyRIUZaTxVjuzbJO4ogUuTelgc UfOuKMbF8CbaW5AAqGu+/F90CrN9gZyMf/udbQppDwJGV9WvOC6cooFskHbGyKmqyFru VYd/UbYZAveFt2nRh4F2ikojUUNYT9AwKlFK1RjqEmx+U8yJjBlX7ISRsnhPkJdvAScE Sb8/Tgu/92Edry/r3do1hOaMKXc9iPZet8e+dbz3EIGk222R+tQAgB08jBgtrVg57Yj/ tCv+UbQgAxiOxUjXNb8U15qK9Cn81COHvh9U37mGW5j5Tt+I701DDWRBjS3gNbNmNR/k kqJg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.240.80 with SMTP id kz16mr12586696vcb.7.1354652486162; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 12:21:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.221.230 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 12:21:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> <8C4CD043-64B0-45F5-9E71-9CE0860E6097@langille.org> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 12:21:26 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? From: pete wright To: Eitan Adler Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:21:28 -0000 On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Eitan Adler wrote: > On 4 December 2012 15:11, pete wright wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Freddie Cash wrote: >>> I'm subscribed to both lists, and I have not yet received the announcement >>> e-mail. So, it's not as cut-n-dried, black'n white, easy as "why aren't >>> you readding announce". :) >>> >> >> +1 >> >> also the subject line on this thread was much more eye catching as well :) > > It was also incorrect and misleading. GA is not "spyware". It may > have properties you dislike but it is not (a) software installed on > your computer (b) without notice (c) malicious. > > yes, i whole heartedly agree - hence my interest in getting more details on this. -p -- pete wright www.nycbug.org @nomadlogicLA From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 20:21:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9494C7FE for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:21:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from nyi.unixathome.org (nyi.unixathome.org [64.147.113.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E3E78FC18 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:21:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nyi.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AEFC508FE for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:21:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at unixathome.org Received: from nyi.unixathome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (nyi.unixathome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w22V5yXJNWAH for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:21:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp-auth.unixathome.org (smtp-auth.unixathome.org [10.4.7.7]) (Authenticated sender: hidden) by nyi.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 155E6508F2 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:21:29 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? From: Dan Langille In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:21:23 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <27505D5D-426D-47A7-B143-C84AF68B8612@langille.org> References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> <8C4CD043-64B0-45F5-9E71-9CE0860E6097@langille.org> To: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:21:32 -0000 On Dec 4, 2012, at 3:11 PM, pete wright wrote: > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Freddie Cash wrote: >> I'm subscribed to both lists, and I have not yet received the announcement >> e-mail. So, it's not as cut-n-dried, black'n white, easy as "why aren't >> you readding announce". :) >> > > +1 > > also the subject line on this thread was much more eye catching as well :) Sorry, my sarcasm is far too light. -- Dan Langille - http://langille.org From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 20:22:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6BE095F for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:22:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from nyi.unixathome.org (nyi.unixathome.org [64.147.113.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABB498FC14 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:22:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nyi.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07E195094D for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:22:24 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at unixathome.org Received: from nyi.unixathome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (nyi.unixathome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Kj-4VX0mYQC for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:22:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp-auth.unixathome.org (smtp-auth.unixathome.org [10.4.7.7]) (Authenticated sender: hidden) by nyi.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7050B508F2 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:22:24 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? From: Dan Langille In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:22:23 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <305B691A-5DC7-49DF-A49B-6F51253D4BB3@langille.org> References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> <8C4CD043-64B0-45F5-9E71-9CE0860E6097@langille.org> To: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:22:26 -0000 On Dec 4, 2012, at 3:11 PM, pete wright wrote: > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Freddie Cash wrote: >> I'm subscribed to both lists, and I have not yet received the announcement >> e-mail. So, it's not as cut-n-dried, black'n white, easy as "why aren't >> you readding announce". :) >> > > +1 > > also the subject line on this thread was much more eye catching as well :) I blame the OP for not including references. -- Dan Langille - http://langille.org From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 20:23:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B22D69CC for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:23:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from katinka@lavabit.com) Received: from karen.lavabit.com (karen.lavabit.com [72.249.41.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 875168FC14 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:23:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from d.earth.lavabit.com (d.earth.lavabit.com [192.168.111.13]) by karen.lavabit.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4E9611BC58 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 13:57:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from firlefanz.org (p508CED81.dip.t-dialin.net [80.140.237.129]) by lavabit.com with ESMTP id EJ7E8FIO4QMF for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 13:57:42 -0600 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lavabit; d=lavabit.com; b=ni2PEoZmt/7V3IZ0UKJa3M0E8Q/PbC9c8tfJQSzg0mQ0hx1y+XCtBZj7uJyGUo+/7py5O0mqdFmiJ7N3cFRWy0Izg89GON4hBbT7/i6IIcP2JPzfwthtm8DQMjr+ZI18gqhCG1ngR7yMvWsVbUAhkCMxhc/7ORbLPy0NpIpvg54=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; Message-ID: <50BE479B.10602@lavabit.com> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 19:57:31 +0100 From: Katinka User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120531 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> In-Reply-To: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:23:23 -0000 Thx for the heads up but I think that's a non-issue. If one dislikes Google, their scripts are already blocked. Don't get me wrong, though. I wouldn't dream of having a G*-whatever account. Google scripts are avoided through various measures. Still, Google and FreeBSD always got along pretty well. Think of 'Summer of Code' and suchlike. Some even said that "Google is tailored to FreeBSD". Maybe it was time for a favor. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 20:41:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D164383 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:41:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 810EE8FC08 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:41:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.2.117.99]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qB4Kf3hB050613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:41:04 GMT (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.7.1 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk qB4Kf3hB050613 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infracaninophile.co.uk; s=201001-infracaninophile; t=1354653664; bh=gCBxxt5yqnhwrA84agUxNRhwjCi/4XoN/bPK5yQ8Yko=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; z=Date:=20Tue,=2004=20Dec=202012=2020:41:03=20+0000|From:=20Matthew =20Seaman=20|To:=20pete=20wright= 20|CC:=20Eitan=20Adler=20,=20chat@freebsd.org|Subject:=20Re:=20Google=20spyware=20on=20F reeBSD=20Web=20site?|References:=20<201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.n et>=20=20<8C4CD043-64B0-45F5-9E71-9CE0860E6097@langille.org>=2 0=20=20=20|In-Reply-To:=20; b=tlkmQIXCb8JCBc4nTVwlB79GPTsJIbua0pRjfh6TfhA8wiwOn2LM00vRTYO3xsZ0b 0mqyTMxWiBvZRxQxrvf9RcYdVsLc8e/GiDU4KYZ9eU1HkGrC/qcRf8fVyETvNcUJcg p9Rv5Oi+5bVoUoj5FvVjsvNXpIqgonhG9D9iKbZU= Message-ID: <50BE5FDF.7010604@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:41:03 +0000 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pete wright Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> <8C4CD043-64B0-45F5-9E71-9CE0860E6097@langille.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.6 OpenPGP: id=60AE908C Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig232E6C879535ABFB7327B010" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.6 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,SPF_FAIL autolearn=no version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: Eitan Adler , chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:41:09 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig232E6C879535ABFB7327B010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 04/12/2012 20:21, pete wright wrote: > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Eitan Adler wro= te: >> On 4 December 2012 15:11, pete wright wrote: >>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Freddie Cash wro= te: >>>> I'm subscribed to both lists, and I have not yet received the announ= cement >>>> e-mail. So, it's not as cut-n-dried, black'n white, easy as "why ar= en't >>>> you readding announce". :) >>>> >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> also the subject line on this thread was much more eye catching as we= ll :) >> >> It was also incorrect and misleading. GA is not "spyware". It may >> have properties you dislike but it is not (a) software installed on >> your computer (b) without notice (c) malicious. >> >> > yes, i whole heartedly agree - hence my interest in getting more > details on this. If you're unhappy about websites that pass your details on to advertizers and you don't want to have to trust that all those sites out there have correctly implemented 'Do Not Track' then I heartily recommend the RequestPolicy plugin for FireFox. The downside is that the first time you go to a new site, you'll have to set which sites you allow the site your visiting to cross-site too, but that can be quite an eye-opener in itself. (Works well with NoScript too.) Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey JID: matthew@infracaninophile.co.uk --------------enig232E6C879535ABFB7327B010 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlC+X98ACgkQ8Mjk52CukIyqRgCeKLmu3eKB/clJOz93HqU9Hv1L ZGoAoILqSPCupjmooeaJ83XZdKwu9JtZ =0P35 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig232E6C879535ABFB7327B010-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 20:58:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 131D6D32 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:58:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.62.230.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4C328FC14 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:58:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Toshi.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2] (may be forged)) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15597; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 13:58:30 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <201212042058.NAA15597@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 13:58:26 -0700 To: Eitan Adler , pete wright From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? In-Reply-To: References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> <8C4CD043-64B0-45F5-9E71-9CE0860E6097@langille.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:58:36 -0000 At 01:13 PM 12/4/2012, Eitan Adler wrote: >GA is not "spyware". It may >have properties you dislike but it is not (a) software installed on >your computer (b) without notice (c) malicious. It does not matter whether the code is permanently installed on your computer (though Google's tracking cookies certainly are), because it is simply loaded again and again. There is no notice. As for malicious intent: YMMV, but I certainly do not trust any multi-billion dollar monopolistic corporation, and least of all Google, which has a long track record of anticompetitive and invasive practices. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 21:02:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D8AE4D for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 21:02:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.62.230.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84F4F8FC13 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 21:02:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Toshi.lariat.net (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2] (may be forged)) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15657; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 14:02:00 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <201212042102.OAA15657@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 14:01:53 -0700 To: Matthew Seaman , pete wright From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? In-Reply-To: <50BE5FDF.7010604@infracaninophile.co.uk> References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> <8C4CD043-64B0-45F5-9E71-9CE0860E6097@langille.org> <50BE5FDF.7010604@infracaninophile.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: Eitan Adler , chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 21:02:16 -0000 At 01:41 PM 12/4/2012, Matthew Seaman wrote: >If you're unhappy about websites that pass your details on to >advertizers and you don't want to have to trust that all those sites out >there have correctly implemented 'Do Not Track' then I heartily >recommend the RequestPolicy plugin for FireFox. The downside is that the >first time you go to a new site, you'll have to set which sites you >allow the site your visiting to cross-site too, but that can be quite an >eye-opener in itself. (Works well with NoScript too.) I actually use several such plug-ins. However, the average user does not; in fact, most users do not even know how to activate the "Do Not Track" header (which Google's lobbyists in DC have advocated that Web sites ignore). It seems to me that The FreeBSD Project should be on the side of security, privacy, and good ethics. Just because it has received contributions of labor from Google does not mean it should not sell out to it. Just my $0.02. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 21:14:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28F0A3D1 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 21:14:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jakub_lach@mailplus.pl) Received: from sam.nabble.com (sam.nabble.com [216.139.236.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0FD08FC08 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 21:14:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TfzpQ-0006Gm-Lh for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 13:14:56 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 13:14:56 -0800 (PST) From: Jakub Lach To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1354655696661-5766629.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: <201212042058.NAA15597@lariat.net> References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> <8C4CD043-64B0-45F5-9E71-9CE0860E6097@langille.org> <201212042058.NAA15597@lariat.net> Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 21:14:58 -0000 IF you trust Opera and IF you trust said extension, there is always Ghostery with very wide selection of blocking tracking scripts, google related included. This is probably most user friendly solution of unfortunate state of modern web. FYI, freshports.org supplementary uses google search already. -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/Google-spyware-on-FreeBSD-Web-site-tp5766563p5766629.html Sent from the freebsd-chat mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 22:04:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7575D884 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 22:04:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichsfreebsdlist@alogt.com) Received: from alogt.com (alogt.com [69.36.191.58]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B5C48FC08 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 22:04:23 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alogt.com; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Mime-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date; bh=P4qws3DiqKpuoMUHQiITh9enaNlBW3cU0iJ1scn2swo=; b=par/drNDGov7crRUwS+/zd7+RzxwONyXoiYbH3Wo2VixS7ro1K4NZ8EKm9+WWMimvOclPBAUohCFxqgOrIxm6Zqid66cB2+iuMHsvAa/PZ7CH14hZ9IFkdQHtqx0DsFH; Received: from [122.129.203.50] (port=20029 helo=X220.ovitrap.com) by sl-508-2.slc.westdc.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Tg0bA-001p1i-7H; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 15:04:16 -0700 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 05:04:13 +0700 From: Erich Dollansky To: Katinka Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? Message-ID: <20121205050413.77f3c3f1@X220.ovitrap.com> In-Reply-To: <50BE479B.10602@lavabit.com> References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> <50BE479B.10602@lavabit.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - sl-508-2.slc.westdc.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - alogt.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: sl-508-2.slc.westdc.net: authenticated_id: erichsfreebsdlist@alogt.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 22:04:23 -0000 Hi, On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 19:57:31 +0100 Katinka wrote: > Thx for the heads up but I think that's a non-issue. > If one dislikes Google, their scripts are already blocked. you got the point. Erich From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 23:48:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559D0C97 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 23:48:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from outsidetheboxllc@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f45.google.com (mail-vb0-f45.google.com [209.85.212.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06B7C8FC08 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 23:48:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vb0-f45.google.com with SMTP id p1so4219685vbi.18 for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 15:48:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=cXm6pyhNS9rEhFTPTm5mGmRDvnEdyrIhaXHtU0lOvJU=; b=1CV9H1jW/NhLdToW6d4/O8vlDpuccUgC/tgry8skO6CluowHYTDbtZCRqLNgUzdoXG L+TNImQxtK3ELvvfrmZpGQHlmRD4kXT9FeIiE9eJERVjHg53V4Su+vuWnH1m7qB3qQYR 2xVjiQMWdJhohmZjlaYtux6uEc2favsy64h17ZzIOif/saJTc98zWZVf/GOzpUPwUI1I IOH0ud3kyN6mAa0NRC63oyo4Lnq/D2XtHdCGLcGGVHsI5hqr/OV1OBNtOo32qGcP+nsX 5afa1ChIMKnCkeeR6gmPC3BjnvZZiko4In0n/Ledr/3A4a3TkTwd+yYGotksKjpyY+9N WRig== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.33.228 with SMTP id u4mr11566284vdi.4.1354664922998; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 15:48:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.235.41 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:48:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:48:42 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? From: Outside_the_Box LLC To: Brett Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 23:48:44 -0000 * +1... On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Brett Glass wrote: > Everyone: > > Today, I received a rather shocking the announcement: The FreeBSD > Project's Web developer announced his intent to incorporate > corporate spyware into the FreeBSD.org Web site. > > As you may or may not know, the so-called "Google Analytics" scripts > do more than analyze the traffic which goes to a Web site. They also > spy on its users, planting cookies in their browsers and tracking their > activities on the Web for the exclusive benefit of one corporation: > Google. > > What's more, at least one organization which is paid to lobby for Google > in Washington, DC has announced that it does not intend to honor, and > does not recommend that Web sites honor, the "Do Not Track" header. > So, even if users are knowledgeable enough to cause their browsers to > generate this header (most are not), there is no reason to trust Google > to honor it. > > The FreeBSD project should not allow or condone such behavior -- > which is a serious security risk and violation of visitors' privacy. Nor > should it show favoritism toward a single corporation. > > I'd like to ask that the FreeBSD project set a good example for others > by refusing to incorporate corporate spyware into its Web site. If it > is desirable to gather statistics regarding the site, there are ways > to do it that do not compromise visitors' privacy or execute invasive > spyware on their machines. > > Sincerely, > Brett Glass > > ______________________________**_________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/**mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@**freebsd.org > " > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 6 20:38:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6093F58A for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2012 20:38:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (mail-in-01.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.41]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF46D8FC15 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2012 20:38:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-in-17-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-17-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.34]) by mx.arcor.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88AC05A833 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2012 21:05:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (mail-in-06.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.46]) by mail-in-17-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8632C10C019 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2012 21:05:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from lorvorc.mips.inka.de (dslb-092-075-197-004.pools.arcor-ip.net [92.75.197.4]) by mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B96410C303 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2012 21:05:19 +0100 (CET) X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 mail-in-06.arcor-online.net 5B96410C303 Received: from lorvorc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lorvorc.mips.inka.de (8.14.5/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qB6K5Ii7088055 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2012 21:05:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mailnull@lorvorc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by lorvorc.mips.inka.de (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id qB6K5IeM088054 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 6 Dec 2012 21:05:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mailnull) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 20:05:18 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 20:38:40 -0000 Brett Glass wrote: > What's more, at least one organization which is paid to lobby for Google > in Washington, DC has announced that it does not intend to honor, and > does not recommend that Web sites honor, the "Do Not Track" header. I've never understood the point of DNT. It's like sticking a sign to your door "Do Not Burglarize". -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 6 20:48:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20836ED for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2012 20:48:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from raistlin@tacorp.net) Received: from mail.tacorp.net (mail.tacorp.net [72.240.52.43]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADD188FC14 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2012 20:48:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.tacorp.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.tacorp.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F33E1B5138; Thu, 6 Dec 2012 15:39:52 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at tacorp.net Received: from mail.tacorp.net ([127.0.0.1]) by mail.tacorp.net (mail.tacorp.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uP9eJOnzdijY; Thu, 6 Dec 2012 15:39:50 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.tacorp.net (Postfix, from userid 2366) id 496451B5137; Thu, 6 Dec 2012 15:39:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.tacorp.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 476BE1B512B; Thu, 6 Dec 2012 15:39:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 15:39:50 -0500 (EST) From: Jason Slagle To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? In-Reply-To: <201212042102.OAA15657@lariat.net> Message-ID: <20121206153135.L1781@mail.tacorp.net> References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> <8C4CD043-64B0-45F5-9E71-9CE0860E6097@langille.org> <50BE5FDF.7010604@infracaninophile.co.uk> <201212042102.OAA15657@lariat.net> X-message-flag: Get yourself a real mail client! http://www.washington.edu/pine/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: Eitan Adler , pete wright , chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 20:48:32 -0000 On Tue, 4 Dec 2012, Brett Glass wrote: > I actually use several such plug-ins. However, the average user does not; > in fact, most users do not even know how to activate the "Do Not Track" > header (which Google's lobbyists in DC have advocated that Web sites > ignore). It seems to me that The FreeBSD Project should be on the side > of security, privacy, and good ethics. Just because it has received > contributions of labor from Google does not mean it should not sell out > to it. > > Just my $0.02. > > --Brett Glass Sell out? Maybe you should take some time to reread the announcement. This has nothing to do with selling out. It has everything to do with the project wanting to make sure it's resources are spent in productive areas, and to improve the site for users. If you don't want the GA script to load on the site, are you volunteering to write the software to allow them to accomplish those goals? If not you're just whining and not contributing. Also, under the default settings, Google Analytics does NOT set any doubleclick cookies, or as far as I've ever been able to tell, ANY cookies related to ad tracking. Additionally, the cookies it sets are all first party - they will be from the FreeBSD domains, and will not be readable by others. I think you might have put your tin foil hat on a little to tight this morning. Jason -- Jason Slagle - RHCE5, VCP4 /"\ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign . X - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail . / \ - NO Word docs in e-mail . From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 7 01:40:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49DFE4D6 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2012 01:40:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.62.230.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA0468FC13 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2012 01:40:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Toshi.lariat.net (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2] (may be forged)) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15713; Thu, 6 Dec 2012 18:39:52 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <201212070139.SAA15713@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 18:39:33 -0700 To: Jason Slagle From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Google spyware on FreeBSD Web site? In-Reply-To: <20121206153135.L1781@mail.tacorp.net> References: <201212041900.MAA14107@lariat.net> <8C4CD043-64B0-45F5-9E71-9CE0860E6097@langille.org> <50BE5FDF.7010604@infracaninophile.co.uk> <201212042102.OAA15657@lariat.net> <20121206153135.L1781@mail.tacorp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Eitan Adler , pete wright , chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2012 01:40:22 -0000 At 01:39 PM 12/6/2012, Jason Slagle wrote: >Sell out? Yes, sell out. Some sites sell out to Google to get money. Others do it to get cheap analytics instead of using open source analytical tools (which seems odd in the case of FreeBSD, because it is after all a open source project). >If you don't want the GA script to load on the site, are you >volunteering to write the software to allow them to accomplish those goals? Again, there's no need to reinvent the wheel. There are plenty of good analytical tools out there. >Also, under the default settings, Google Analytics does NOT set >any doubleclick cookies, or as far as I've ever been able to tell, >ANY cookies related to ad tracking. Yes, Google Analytics does track users. According to the Wikipedia article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Analytics "Google Analytics (GA) is a service offered by Google that generates detailed statistics about the visits to a website. The product is aimed at marketers as opposed to webmasters and technologists from which the industry of web analytics originally grew." It goes on to say that "GA can track visitors from all referrers, including search engines, display advertising, pay-per-click networks, e-mail marketing and digital collateral such as links within PDF documents." >Additionally, the cookies it sets are all first party - they will >be from the FreeBSD domains, and will not be readable by others. Again, according to the above cited article: "Due to its ubiquity, Google Analytics raises some privacy concerns. Whenever someone visits a website that uses Google Analytics, if Javascript is enabled in the browser then Google tracks that visit via the user's IP address in order to determine the user's approximate geographic location." So, it's not just cookies that one needs to be concerned about. It's also worth remembering that Google surreptitiously hacked Safari to allow it to spy on Safari users, and denied doing so until it was caught. See, for example, http://www.pcworld.com/article/250213/googles_safari_tracking_dilemma_reality_check.html In my opinion, The FreeBSD Project should be on the side of security, privacy, transparency, and good ethics. This means not invoking corporate spyware scripts from its Web site. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 8 16:48:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03F39AF5 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2012 16:48:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from outsidetheboxllc@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA6F88FC0C for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2012 16:48:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id l1so1691752vba.13 for ; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 08:48:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=+r+ks6EbLwv1NGy7EHCPBO4pov1+eduvGF7fv4KYUtA=; b=I5g/t50V39eXCCnbht+nbPFR1aOvK3FbJhujb9kjzbAdmG2EBekT3KsFdOJE93wa+H 5ndglYsjY/WVq5rrMsBEVHsAME1iyWpWDBNxcbRvg8Z1umdrd899bEnJEJiG3khBR7Wd wsdPi5xE5Pqcra5GCS8FdCrMaRAEEsoR7gE5/lLHO+fJJNemgmDn+g5WazjXQmFLxack SSRohsR6MYj856WTu2ak5IwZn1bZZre3R1d/E8f3jIwxcjEeobnCZ64gKoGe79P1asd6 XqRHHFW/63GIZc6a6en/fDsKZrgqHGE5SpfvvfN9+0ys4Rsk5znL8kKnIjId90nDfOFk D1Sg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.33.228 with SMTP id u4mr5174318vdi.4.1354985286847; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 08:48:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.154.66 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Dec 2012 08:48:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 08:48:06 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: /newbie_forums From: Outside_the_Box LLC To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2012 16:48:08 -0000 hey, where do i point my browser to get into freebsd 9 newbie forums?... i have been on the site, handbook, and done searches and don't find one... i find newbie questions listed in searches not newbie forums... i don't want to annoy veteran user forums with my 'stupid' newbie install questions... example: i'm re-installing free 9 and it "could not start wpa_supplicant"... i'm freshly writing it onto entire disc(drive)... thanks for any help in locating forums for new install newbie questions... From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 8 18:41:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 081B3E2A for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2012 18:41:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jakub_lach@mailplus.pl) Received: from sam.nabble.com (sam.nabble.com [216.139.236.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D785B8FC08 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2012 18:41:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ThPL6-0006Xy-1A for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 10:41:28 -0800 Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 10:41:28 -0800 (PST) From: Jakub Lach To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1354992088030-5767659.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: /newbie_forums MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2012 18:41:30 -0000 I'm sure precise and clear described problems/questions [1] are not out of place on -questions, moreover you can always use http://forums.freebsd.org/forumdisplay.php?f=4 [1] http://www.gerv.net/hacking/how-to-ask-good-questions/ -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/newbie-forums-tp5767648p5767659.html Sent from the freebsd-chat mailing list archive at Nabble.com.