From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 07:46:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9E8E106566B for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 07:45:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vw0-f54.google.com (mail-vw0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C0D78FC12 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 07:45:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vbbey12 with SMTP id ey12so1947196vbb.13 for ; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 23:45:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=KVBF/NQDb5nS+/b+LSNEf9AlE/eYaoxnN/hXNG3zkAA=; b=Wo4Kimxkh+Vx3GQx3Ee3077HsJ+jtLB9/IrGegzCw4e2CHVolITUTY6rLjlOwOVWpk cMM6vm6TmwyqH7nj/SfPCQkgLXHZ895O7b+NQjashngEGcM5vSZcKIXElr9sc1AcLnKZ oot4T9DtH55CmvmW1sxLjKAuJyvW5nZwjz0Qo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.24.35 with SMTP id r3mr1768387vdf.81.1327218358822; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 23:45:58 -0800 (PST) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.52.36.5 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 23:45:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4F19188A.4090907@herveybayaustralia.com.au> References: <20120119005658.218280@gmx.com> <4F19188A.4090907@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 23:45:58 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: r8IA9s1gRXvyWAXoupixL7lGOwM Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Da Rock Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 07:46:00 -0000 Hi, It's not an easy task to get "noticed". Well, no i lie - that's easy, start submitting patches. Then you need to find someone who you can nag to get it done. I've offered to a few people to include stuff - just keep nagging me. Linux projects have the same problem, don't doubt it - but they have a larger group of active people, generally looking after a very specific corner of the world. If you want to join the fray and get a commit bit, just be persistent and be willing to look after one specific corner of the tree. Then you'll be responsible for dealing with others nagging you. :) Getting to that point can take a bit of effort though. In terms of wifi, I jumped in with both feet and asked a whole bunch of questions (and nagged a whole lot of people) until I wrapped my head around things. This may or may not be the way you work. :-) The trouble is it's just (mostly) me. It's a little overwhelming, especially since I don't subscribe to the "copy everyone elses' work and hope it works fine" method of working.. Adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 08:32:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 953531065670; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:32:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@acm.org) Received: from fallbackmx06.syd.optusnet.com.au (fallbackmx06.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 228D88FC16; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:32:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail14.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail14.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.195]) by fallbackmx06.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q0M7CjW0013108; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:12:45 +1100 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c220-239-116-103.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.116.103]) by mail14.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q0M7ChYI013720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:12:43 +1100 X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.5/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q0M7Cfvh021137; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:12:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.5/8.14.4/Submit) id q0M7Cf9N021136; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:12:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:12:40 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Daniel Gerzo Message-ID: <20120122071240.GB1913@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <4F153AE3.9010602@my.gd> <20120120133826.GB16676@FreeBSD.org> <4F196F9B.3050506@my.gd> <20120120135936.GC16676@FreeBSD.org> <4F1A0FD7.2020604@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F1A0FD7.2020604@FreeBSD.org> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:32:57 -0000 --hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2012-Jan-21 02:07:35 +0100, Daniel Gerzo wrote: >I have already said it in this thread - I believe we should consider=20 >issuing much more errata notices (i.e. -pX); with that I mean we should=20 >consider more bugs as "major bugs". I don't really see a reason why not.= =20 The problem is that one person's "major bug" is completely unimportant to another person. Increasing the number of errata notices would annoy just as many people as it would please. >And we should also provide some mechanism to allow for cherry-picking=20 >individual errata notices to be applied on the given release (e.g. p1,=20 >p2, p5, but not p3, p4). This is a nice idea and is something you might be able to do yourself (because the exact list of changes are in the errata notes) but I don't believe this is practical for the Project to support. Errata updates need to be lightweight from the Project's point of - it can't afford to spend months testing them. With the current model, p4 can only be applied on top of p3 so releasing p4 means: 1) verifying that applying the p4 changes to p3 corrects the bug(s) that caused p4 to be created. 2) doing regression tests to ensure that adding the p4 change to p3 doesn't break anything. With your model, someone can apply p4 on top of any combination of p0, p1, p2, p3 - 8 possibilities. This means there's now 8 times the effort involved in releasing the errata update and it increases exponentially with the number of errata. And it gets more complicated if more than one update affects the same (or related) areas of code. >I don't think it makes sense to issue errata notices for driver updates=20 >as in support for new devices because we don't ship installation media=20 >with these patches applied. I'm not sure that's really an issue - except for people who can't install because the updated driver is needed to support their install media. That said, driver updates can be problematic - someone who has a new chip that isn't supported by the current driver, or who is having a serious issue with the current driver will want the update. Someone who isn't having problems won't want to touch their driver in=20 case it introduces problems with their system. --=20 Peter Jeremy --hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk8btugACgkQ/opHv/APuIcPCwCgiTBtqjSsOn/n9Gv+Z4yP0zvo TEAAoMTjEKD0VD2gm3xvLEEMjp/uBxyj =QL5m -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 05:49:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2B9E1065672 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 05:49:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA6568FC13 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 05:49:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 144ED56172; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 23:49:03 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 23:49:03 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: vermaden Message-ID: <20120122054903.GB12469@lonesome.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:22:06 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 05:49:04 -0000 On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 08:07:43AM +0100, vermaden wrote: > I submit PRs and try to help test them as some developer/committer > will pick up the PR, submit a patch to test, but it was MANY times > that the response from developer/committer was way too long that > I even DID NOT HAVE THE HARDWARE anymore ... I don't have a magic wand to solve this problem. I've spent a lot of time thinking about it and it's just a hard problem to solve in general. There are several aspects: - so many computers are very broken (specifically, horrible BIOS bugs). - most committers only have one or two computers that they work with. - most committers have their own tasklist, and "support users" is something they never have time to get around to. "support users" is, in general, something Open Source OSes do not do very well (at least without a paid support staff, as is the case in some of the Linux distros.) But what's discouraging for the people that try to clean up the stale PRs is that they get yelled at when they try to do so. Thus, they tend to get demotivated as well. Support/bug triage is hard and unrewarding work. People can tend to feel that they're being blamed for bugs that they had nothing to do with creating, and burn out. > Here is one of the messages that I sent by then to the mailing lists: > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-doc/2007-May/012507.html > > ... and NOTHING HAPPENED, no one told me what to do next, > should I sent a SGML version or anything ... or just GTFO. I'm sorry that nothing happened, but unfortunately that's common. Submitters sometimes have to be persistent, and maybe even catch new committers when they sign up. Our documentation is certainly in need of updating. > What I have done about these 'Ports issues'? I contacted these > ports maintainers and said that both RC script and AIO support for > samba should be enabled by default by linking to several threads > at FreeBSD Forums that the problem is known and exists ... and I > did not get ANY RESPONSE till this very day, not even a GTFO > (which would probably be better then nothing). When you don't get a response from a maintainer, your best bet is to file a PR against the port. If the maintainer doesn't respond, then after 2 weeks any FreeBSD ports committer is free to work on the PR and, if they agree with you, commit it via maintainer-timeout. We don't have a way to track emails that various users send to individual maintainers. With a PR open, we have a way to do that. We also track maintainer-timeouts, and these can eventually lead to a maintainer reset. > I got these maintainers email addresses from http://freshports.org > page, are they up-to-date there? They should be, but looking on cvsweb will tell you for certain. IIRC on each freshports page there is a link to cvsweb for the port. > It's not that people does not try to help, a lot tried (and I am still > trying), but its VERY unpleasant to have awareness, that you dedicated > your time, tried to help as much as possible, made some steps to achieve > that ... and no one even cares about that. I think it's not "don't care", I think it's that "unable to cope with number of incoming PRs and other requests for changes and support". As I type this, there are 1122 ports PRs (6272 total PRs). On most days, around 40 come in. It would take a few dozen more volunteers to be able to keep up with them all. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 05:56:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B871065670; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 05:56:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F04FC8FC0A; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 05:56:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 6FD4256172; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 23:56:42 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 23:56:42 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Andriy Gapon Message-ID: <20120122055642.GC12469@lonesome.com> References: <1326836797.1669.234.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <4F16019F.2060300@FreeBSD.org> <1326843399.1669.249.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <4F160B99.1060001@FreeBSD.org> <4F16900A.90905@FreeBSD.org> <4F16A83C.5070204@FreeBSD.org> <4F16B8AA.2040004@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F16B8AA.2040004@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:22:17 +0000 Cc: Ian Lepore , Igor Mozolevsky , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 05:56:43 -0000 On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 02:18:50PM +0200, Andriy Gapon wrote: > So software can already send the reminders, but the real problem is to > assign the PRs in the first place. Currently most assignment are self- > assignments. My experience has been that assigning PRs to people who have not specifically requested that PRs related to that subject be assigned to them, almost always results in the PRs languishing. This is why I (with bugmeister hat on) discourage the bugbusters from doing so. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 10:19:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D276C106566C for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:19:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from geoffrey.levand@mail.ru) Received: from f69.mail.ru (f69.mail.ru [217.69.128.218]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 440B78FC0C for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:19:15 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mail.ru; s=mail; h=Message-Id:Content-Type:Reply-To:Date:Mime-Version:Subject:To:From; bh=Ye4kc91oIaUvx+PVtEeAOxE42x8+2POVsfZpMhbt/MY=; b=HjD2pdB2oKC7sGpUcYmkPInkRyYO71KoohB5AOU6HTEbwNx2sFOy1LJg0vec/sTQ5DwzmFwy31Z23GGhw2YKTd05UTwozq0w6vbTUu5BjrlAarC4axz1Zv22pm0mZ03k; Received: from mail by f69.mail.ru with local (envelope-from ) id 1RouW1-0003BY-9s for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:19:13 +0400 Received: from [109.192.123.222] by e.mail.ru with HTTP; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:19:13 +0400 From: =?UTF-8?B?Z2VvZmZyZXkgbGV2YW5k?= To: =?UTF-8?B?ZnJlZWJzZC1oYWNrZXJz?= Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: mPOP Web-Mail 2.19 X-Originating-IP: [109.192.123.222] Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:19:13 +0400 X-Mru-UID: 345348777 X-Mru-IsAutoreg: 0 X-Mru-AutoregInfo: 112334, [] X-Mru-User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1 X-Mru-Data: 282:0:0:202:202:0 X-Priority: Message-Id: X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Mru-Karma: 0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:22:54 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Rebooting/Halting system from kernel module X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: =?UTF-8?B?Z2VvZmZyZXkgbGV2YW5k?= List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:19:15 -0000 CkhpLAoKaG93IHdvdWxkIGkgcmVib290L2hhbHQgdGhlIHN5c3RlbSBmcm9tIGEga2VybmVsIG1v ZHVsZSA/CgpyZWdhcmRzCgotLQrQn9C+0YfRgtCwQE1haWwuUnUg0LIg0YLQstC+0LXQvCDQvNC+ 0LHQuNC70YzQvdC+0LwhCtCf0YDQvtGB0YLQviDQt9Cw0LnQtNC4INGBINGC0LXQu9C10YTQvtC9 0LAg0L3QsCBtLm1haWwucnU= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 11:36:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1977E106568C for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:36:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2D7A8FC12 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:36:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (bell.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.40]) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D38C5C28 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:48:39 +1000 (EST) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.179]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D28895C21 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:48:38 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F1BF3BB.2000504@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:32:11 +1000 From: Da Rock <9Phackers@herveybayaustralia.com.au> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20120122054903.GB12469@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: <20120122054903.GB12469@lonesome.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 12:04:48 +0000 Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:36:09 -0000 On 01/22/12 15:49, Mark Linimon wrote: > As I type this, there are 1122 ports PRs (6272 total PRs). On most > days, around 40 come in. How do you get that number? I ran a search on pr's and only came up with around ~4k. Is there a trick I'm missing? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 12:44:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92E881065686 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 12:44:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D8E28FC08 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 12:44:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iagz16 with SMTP id z16so5017611iag.13 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 04:44:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=cnz1IDRab4csTBJyi/GwrEX0XR6T2kZp/UhEve+lxBQ=; b=Lfy+qY51vcSdDELZPxDNkBO9h2/CpQxZA8uU/v+yZynppn4OTg+DC4EZmyOBvcF3n/ zzUa7hBmmHQRSHoG04+l0tnGiPTcXLvc8FRvXMhwK29Q7yWLkC11ugO6EuDIUBkU0I1e guzf+AFifnpxHSo7KhMIblKPEEGAcc7rY4p9c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.12.162 with SMTP id z2mr5636374igb.3.1327236254022; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 04:44:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.70.15 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 04:44:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.70.15 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 04:44:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4F1BF3BB.2000504@herveybayaustralia.com.au> References: <20120122054903.GB12469@lonesome.com> <4F1BF3BB.2000504@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 12:44:13 +0000 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 12:44:14 -0000 On 22 Jan 2012 12:05, "Da Rock" <9Phackers@herveybayaustralia.com.au> wrote: > > On 01/22/12 15:49, Mark Linimon wrote: >> >> As I type this, there are 1122 ports PRs (6272 total PRs). On most days, around 40 come in. > > How do you get that number? I ran a search on pr's and only came up with around ~4k. Is there a trick I'm missing? > > Scroll up and count the serious and critical bugs too :) Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 14:39:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071A21065674 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:39:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA48F8FC17 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:39:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.37]) by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 22 Jan 2012 09:39:43 -0500 Received: from smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.104]) by mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 4.3.4-GA) with ESMTP id BHK36600; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 09:39:43 -0500 Received: from 209-6-86-84.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) ([209.6.86.84]) by smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 22 Jan 2012 09:39:42 -0500 From: Robert Huff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <20252.8109.369278.46542@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 09:39:41 -0500 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" XEmacs Lucid X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net) Cc: Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:39:49 -0000 Doug Barton writes: > > That would suggest that the end users don't really lose on features by > > delaying the new releases, since those features typically aren't ready > > anyway. > > I think "typically" is stretching it a bit here. As humans we > tend to focus our attention on the things that cause us problems, > rather than acknowledging (or even being aware of) the things > that are working well in the background. Also: how many (non-ports) developers out there remember bugs (including performance issues) that weren't triggered until the code went live? One can argue it shouldn't happen ... but it does. Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 13:19:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE5671065670 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 13:19:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A159E8FC18 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 13:19:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (bell.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.40]) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4593D5C2B for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:31:37 +1000 (EST) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.179]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 08CEC5C21 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:31:37 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F1C0BDD.7020205@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:15:09 +1000 From: Da Rock <9Phackers@herveybayaustralia.com.au> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20120122054903.GB12469@lonesome.com> <4F1BF3BB.2000504@herveybayaustralia.com.au> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:51:36 +0000 Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 13:19:06 -0000 On 01/22/12 22:44, Chris Rees wrote: > On 22 Jan 2012 12:05, "Da Rock"<9Phackers@herveybayaustralia.com.au> wrote: >> On 01/22/12 15:49, Mark Linimon wrote: >>> As I type this, there are 1122 ports PRs (6272 total PRs). On most days, > around 40 come in. >> How do you get that number? I ran a search on pr's and only came up with > around ~4k. Is there a trick I'm missing? >> > Scroll up and count the serious and critical bugs too :) Oh shit! That's embarrassing... I was only looking at the number at the bottom- I didn't realise it broke the numbers into the sections. Sorry for the cruft From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 16:28:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 793F21065690 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 16:28:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05CEB8FC23 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 16:28:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eaai10 with SMTP id i10so916073eaa.13 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:28:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer; bh=psHvwU94zeBAn+b+VITLxJlL7pMQRuUIwtLaCltukVI=; b=nQJZiECvBNfoTyWG19U9m4KTsovTXnYNn0buHNFFg4MDUz4RqatwEXoTaW4xNmPDaf B0dhSahLopen6isxlXguQPdblooBW3UOW6dJ0P43LDLvZyz8SKme+YJyrR4rqlSXUSDb +zWAkzwTEo+m3xDbw5q7bSXu8lR/47BIlPZLs= Received: by 10.213.10.82 with SMTP id o18mr937482ebo.142.1327248111318; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:01:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w46sm9674162eeb.0.2012.01.22.08.01.48 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:01:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20120122.160151.137.1@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:01:51 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <20252.8109.369278.46542@jerusalem.litteratus.org> References: <20252.8109.369278.46542@jerusalem.litteratus.org> X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: Change of ftp download server's dir layout, from 9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 16:28:41 -0000 Example:=0D=0Aftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/9.0-RELEASE/=0D=0A=0D=0ARefering = to KERNEL:=0D=0A 8 -> kernels=0D=0A 9 -> kernel (It was supposed to = be 'kernels.txz', in order to preserve naming scheme)=0D=0A=0D=0A 9 -> = manpages is a NO MORE=0D=0A=0D=0AWhere are CHECKSUM.MD5 and = CHECKSUM.SHA256 for *.txz ?!?=0D=0A=0D=0AThis confused my script, so I'm = all in filling additional IFs statements for >9=0D=0A=0D=0APS: I do = welcome .txz=0D=0A;)=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ADomagoj Smol=E8i=E6 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 16:57:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DFB7106566B for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 16:57:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from f0andrey@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vx0-f182.google.com (mail-vx0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BC708FC0C for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 16:57:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcbfl17 with SMTP id fl17so2140447vcb.13 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:57:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=abKZAMnbSGikTfcxPiYJopsHO38Tr/MlIoXAJAf6Om8=; b=ww2CF3eiXHsiMOwTJhQftqXuwYjLXUOpACHoqOd8Xw+hbAMWJ09Aa+tVuZ7NUeJu4h RInPxjKTLqe7yghvOnapr4ZwIEWuCKicGtTkaaZJKbCvuqn1ClELnrdDKyTywfsO54AI MuRDHvgamPuuOQyhWw69X5ewlX0jMhAlodGUI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.115.135 with SMTP id i7mr2841494vcq.40.1327250139223; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:35:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.230.196 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:35:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20120122.160151.137.1@DOMY-PC> References: <20252.8109.369278.46542@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20120122.160151.137.1@DOMY-PC> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 19:35:39 +0300 Message-ID: From: Andrey Fesenko To: rank1seeker@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Change of ftp download server's dir layout, from 9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 16:57:45 -0000 2012/1/22 : > Example: > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/9.0-RELEASE/ > > Refering to KERNEL: > =C2=A0 =C2=A08 -> kernels > =C2=A0 =C2=A09 -> kernel (It was supposed to be 'kernels.txz', in order t= o preserve naming scheme) > > =C2=A0 =C2=A09 -> manpages is a NO MORE > > Where are CHECKSUM.MD5 and CHECKSUM.SHA256 for *.txz ?!? > > This confused my script, so I'm all in filling additional IFs statements = for >9 > > PS: I do welcome .txz > ;) > I think now ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/9.0-RELEASE/MAN= IFEST From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 17:07:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3AE31065673 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:07:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) Received: from qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.64]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A95C88FC0A for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:07:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.12]) by qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Qh6m1i0070FhH24A7h7eK2; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:07:38 +0000 Received: from damnhippie.dyndns.org ([24.8.232.202]) by omta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Qh7d1i00W4NgCEG8Uh7dmb; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:07:38 +0000 Received: from [172.22.42.240] (revolution.hippie.lan [172.22.42.240]) by damnhippie.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q0MH7Zkg010727; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:07:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) From: Ian Lepore To: geoffrey levand In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:07:35 -0700 Message-Id: <1327252055.69022.46.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.0 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Rebooting/Halting system from kernel module X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:07:38 -0000 On Sun, 2012-01-22 at 14:19 +0400, geoffrey levand wrote: > Hi, > > how would i reboot/halt the system from a kernel module ? > > regards > > -- > ðÏÞÔÁ@Mail.Ru × Ô×ÏÅÍ ÍÏÂÉÌØÎÏÍ! > ðÒÏÓÔÏ ÚÁÊÄÉ Ó ÔÅÌÅÆÏÎÁ ÎÁ m.mail.ru There is an undocumented (at least in terms of a manpage) function named shutdown_nice() in sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c that will send a signal to the init process if it's running or call boot(9) if not. Or maybe a direct call to boot(9) is what you're looking for, if bypassing the running of rc shutdown scripts and all is your goal. (There is a mapage for boot(9)). -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 17:11:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151841065673 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:11:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97E148FC14 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:11:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eaai10 with SMTP id i10so926406eaa.13 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 09:11:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer; bh=3eaDDQbfsbvEI4p9oq2MxqbDk3zz22BLwjR1PAlOtGw=; b=nO4h4+xk3qj0aNDiSf4tGPjyDIUBpEFI5pMfIzUkw9q0LDRPZDDzLBxDmUqzNN9KVW KrgLgYAHTklXp2bCsIhnY+12zThLJWRehid6rgMeorX87an3Pz6o8NtoWB6b4rWZYKF7 KN2//GfxdZsJ1HBvbioxCQDhKyU0eoC2Y8+TY= Received: by 10.213.13.214 with SMTP id d22mr1004156eba.148.1327252281402; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 09:11:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w46sm10423729eeb.0.2012.01.22.09.11.19 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 22 Jan 2012 09:11:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20120122.171121.130.2@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:11:21 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <109B9DBE-67D1-4EC6-8B37-8937996EC340@fisglobal.com> References: <20252.8109.369278.46542@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20120122.160151.137.1@DOMY-PC> <109B9DBE-67D1-4EC6-8B37-8937996EC340@fisglobal.com> X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: Re: Change of ftp download server's dir layout, from 9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:11:23 -0000 ----- Original Message -----=0D=0AFrom: Devin Teske = =0D=0ATo: =0D=0ACc: = =0D=0ADate: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:42:00 = -0800=0D=0ASubject: Re: Change of ftp download server's dir layout, from = 9=0D=0A=0D=0A> =0D=0A> On Jan 22, 2012, at 8:01 AM, = wrote:=0D=0A> =0D=0A> > Example:=0D=0A> > = ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/9.0-RELEASE/=0D=0A> > = =0D=0A> > Refering to KERNEL:=0D=0A> > 8 -> kernels=0D=0A> > 9 -> = kernel (It was supposed to be 'kernels.txz', in order to preserve naming = scheme)=0D=0A> > =0D=0A> > 9 -> manpages is a NO MORE=0D=0A> > =0D=0A> = > Where are CHECKSUM.MD5 and CHECKSUM.SHA256 for *.txz ?!?=0D=0A> =0D=0A> = You want the new "MANIFEST" file for such info.=0D=0A> =0D=0A> Though, = it's unclear merely by just looking at the hash what digest it is (looks = long enough to be sha256).=0D=0A> -- =0D=0A> = Devin=0D=0A=0D=0AYep.=0D=0AAnd regarding a manpages ... I have a HUNCH, = it is now part of a base.txz=0D=0AThou, will know for sure, once I spit = it into DESTDIR. ;)=0D=0A=0D=0A> > =0D=0A> > =0D=0A> > Domagoj = Smol=E8i=E6=0D=0A> =0D=0A> -- =0D=0A> Cheers,=0D=0A> Devin Teske> From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 17:18:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E46361065672 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:18:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8BC98FC08 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:18:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (ltcfislmsgpa07 [127.0.0.1]) by ltcfislmsgpa07.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q0MGbhmX001233; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:42:02 -0600 Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.16]) by ltcfislmsgpa07.fnfis.com with ESMTP id 12g9n8j5wc-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:42:02 -0600 Received: from [10.0.0.104] (10.14.152.28) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:42:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) From: Devin Teske In-Reply-To: <20120122.160151.137.1@DOMY-PC> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:42:00 -0800 Message-ID: <109B9DBE-67D1-4EC6-8B37-8937996EC340@fisglobal.com> References: <20252.8109.369278.46542@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20120122.160151.137.1@DOMY-PC> To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.28] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7361, 1.0.211, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-01-22_05:2012-01-20, 2012-01-22, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Change of ftp download server's dir layout, from 9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:18:24 -0000 On Jan 22, 2012, at 8:01 AM, wrote: > Example: > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/9.0-RELEASE/ >=20 > Refering to KERNEL: > 8 -> kernels > 9 -> kernel (It was supposed to be 'kernels.txz', in order to preserve= naming scheme) >=20 > 9 -> manpages is a NO MORE >=20 > Where are CHECKSUM.MD5 and CHECKSUM.SHA256 for *.txz ?!? You want the new "MANIFEST" file for such info. Though, it's unclear merely by just looking at the hash what digest it is (= looks long enough to be sha256). --=20 Devin >=20 > This confused my script, so I'm all in filling additional IFs statements = for >9 >=20 > PS: I do welcome .txz > ;) >=20 >=20 > Domagoj Smol=E8i=E6 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --=20 Cheers, Devin Teske -> CONTACT INFORMATION <- Business Solutions Consultant II FIS - fisglobal.com 510-735-5650 Mobile 510-621-2038 Office 510-621-2020 Office Fax 909-477-4578 Home/Fax devin.teske@fisglobal.com -> LEGAL DISCLAIMER <- This message contains confidential and proprietary information of the sender, and is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by any other person is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the e-mail sender immediately, and delete the original message without making a copy. -> END TRANSMISSION <- _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware= that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and revie= w by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 18:17:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF92F106564A for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:17:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nwhitehorn@freebsd.org) Received: from agogare.doit.wisc.edu (agogare.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.211]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B255C8FC08 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:17:19 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from avs-daemon.smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu by smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) id <0LY700E00MOUG100@smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:17:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from comporellon.tachypleus.net (adsl-76-208-68-223.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net [76.208.68.223]) by smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0LY7001TQMOTGT10@smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:17:17 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:17:16 -0600 From: Nathan Whitehorn In-reply-to: <20120122.171121.130.2@DOMY-PC> To: rank1seeker@gmail.com Message-id: <4F1C449C.2000707@freebsd.org> X-Spam-Report: AuthenticatedSender=yes, SenderIP=76.208.68.223 X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-11, Version=5.6.1.2065439, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2012.1.22.170615, SenderIP=76.208.68.223 References: <20252.8109.369278.46542@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20120122.160151.137.1@DOMY-PC> <109B9DBE-67D1-4EC6-8B37-8937996EC340@fisglobal.com> <20120122.171121.130.2@DOMY-PC> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20120107 Thunderbird/9.0 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Change of ftp download server's dir layout, from 9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:17:20 -0000 On 01/22/12 11:11, rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Devin Teske > To: > Cc: > Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:42:00 -0800 > Subject: Re: Change of ftp download server's dir layout, from 9 > >> On Jan 22, 2012, at 8:01 AM, wrote: >> >>> Example: >>> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/9.0-RELEASE/ >>> >>> Refering to KERNEL: >>> 8 -> kernels >>> 9 -> kernel (It was supposed to be 'kernels.txz', in order to preserve naming scheme) >>> >>> 9 -> manpages is a NO MORE >>> >>> Where are CHECKSUM.MD5 and CHECKSUM.SHA256 for *.txz ?!? >> You want the new "MANIFEST" file for such info. >> >> Though, it's unclear merely by just looking at the hash what digest it is (looks long enough to be sha256). >> -- >> Devin > Yep. > And regarding a manpages ... I have a HUNCH, it is now part of a base.txz > Thou, will know for sure, once I spit it into DESTDIR. ;) > It is SHA256 and base.txz does contain the manpages. The script that generates MANIFEST is at /usr/src/releases/scripts/make-manifest.sh if you want to see what the rest of the fields are. -Nathan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 17:21:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF7631065670 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:21:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFA978FC0A for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:21:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 572E656172; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:21:18 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:21:18 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120122172118.GA10103@lonesome.com> References: <20120122054903.GB12469@lonesome.com> <4F1BF3BB.2000504@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4F1C0BDD.7020205@herveybayaustralia.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F1C0BDD.7020205@herveybayaustralia.com.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 01:20:40 +0000 Cc: Mark Linimon Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:21:20 -0000 On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 11:15:09PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: > >Scroll up and count the serious and critical bugs too :) > I didn't realise it broke the numbers into the sections. Yeah. The problem is that, over time, the values in those fields has become meaningless. Some of us try to triage what should and should not be 'critical', but other than that, the whole concept has become useless. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 22 17:38:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC1A41065670 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:38:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from geoffrey.levand@mail.ru) Received: from f77.mail.ru (f77.mail.ru [217.69.128.225]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 580E58FC08 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:38:52 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mail.ru; s=mail; h=Message-Id:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Reply-To:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Mime-Version:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=fRmgIsFDm6NSEZ/MHoms3OilEjl65x5pRBfQNudMR8A=; b=t5RjsOR8TT7Mn+ChndrwAl9WoOTyVTJHfxrIaQWuHYRm+bvY5AkmmSBDAqMiVzbrl12dBS0+5U5Qe7q2XpHehLWWejVc7/kfOXT+lgCFwPO1ylO63N7Cb12PY7R+20fl; Received: from mail by f77.mail.ru with local (envelope-from ) id 1Rp1NR-00050n-O6; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:38:50 +0400 Received: from [109.192.123.222] by e.mail.ru with HTTP; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:38:49 +0400 From: =?UTF-8?B?Z2VvZmZyZXkgbGV2YW5k?= To: =?UTF-8?B?SWFuIExlcG9yZQ==?= Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: mPOP Web-Mail 2.19 X-Originating-IP: [109.192.123.222] Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:38:49 +0400 X-Mru-UID: 345348777 X-Mru-IsAutoreg: 0 X-Mru-AutoregInfo: 112334, [] X-Mru-User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1 References: <1327252055.69022.46.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> X-Mru-Data: 282:0:0:202:202:0 In-Reply-To: <1327252055.69022.46.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> X-Priority: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Message-Id: X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Mru-Karma: 0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 01:21:21 +0000 Cc: =?UTF-8?B?ZnJlZWJzZC1oYWNrZXJz?= Subject: Re[2]: Rebooting/Halting system from kernel module X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: =?UTF-8?B?Z2VvZmZyZXkgbGV2YW5k?= List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:38:53 -0000 VGhhbmtzLgoKc2h1dGRvd25fbmljZSBpcyB3b3JraW5nIGdyZWF0LgoKcmVnYXJkcwoKCjIyINGP 0L3QstCw0YDRjyAyMDEyLCAyMTowNyDQvtGCIElhbiBMZXBvcmUgPGZyZWVic2RAZGFtbmhpcHBp ZS5keW5kbnMub3JnPjoKPiBPbiBTdW4sIDIwMTItMDEtMjIgYXQgMTQ6MTkgKzA0MDAsIGdlb2Zm cmV5IGxldmFuZCB3cm90ZToKPiA+IEhpLAo+ID4KPiA+IGhvdyB3b3VsZCBpIHJlYm9vdC9oYWx0 IHRoZSBzeXN0ZW0gZnJvbSBhIGtlcm5lbCBtb2R1bGUgPwo+ID4KPiA+IHJlZ2FyZHMKPiA+Cj4g PiAtLQo+ID4g0J/QvtGH0YLQsEBNYWlsLlJ1INCyINGC0LLQvtC10Lwg0LzQvtCx0LjQu9GM0L3Q vtC8IQo+ID4g0J/RgNC+0YHRgtC+INC30LDQudC00Lgg0YEg0YLQtdC70LXRhNC+0L3QsCDQvdCw IG0ubWFpbC5ydQo+IAo+IFRoZXJlIGlzIGFuIHVuZG9jdW1lbnRlZCAoYXQgbGVhc3QgaW4gdGVy bXMgb2YgYSBtYW5wYWdlKSBmdW5jdGlvbiBuYW1lZAo+IHNodXRkb3duX25pY2UoKSBpbiBzeXMv a2Vybi9rZXJuX3NodXRkb3duLmMgdGhhdCB3aWxsIHNlbmQgYSBzaWduYWwgdG8KPiB0aGUgaW5p dCBwcm9jZXNzIGlmIGl0J3MgcnVubmluZyBvciBjYWxsIGJvb3QoOSkgaWYgbm90LiAgT3IgbWF5 YmUgYQo+IGRpcmVjdCBjYWxsIHRvIGJvb3QoOSkgaXMgd2hhdCB5b3UncmUgbG9va2luZyBmb3Is IGlmIGJ5cGFzc2luZyB0aGUKPiBydW5uaW5nIG9mIHJjIHNodXRkb3duIHNjcmlwdHMgYW5kIGFs bCBpcyB5b3VyIGdvYWwuICAoVGhlcmUgaXMgYSBtYXBhZ2UKPiBmb3IgYm9vdCg5KSkuCj4gCj4g LS0gSWFuCj4gCj4g From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 02:31:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4792106566B for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 02:31:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 697AD8FC17 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 02:31:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from julian-mac.elischer.org (c-67-180-24-15.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.180.24.15]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q0N2V1fl053666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:31:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <4F1CC6A8.3010007@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:32:08 -0800 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10.4; en-US; rv:1.9.2.25) Gecko/20111213 Thunderbird/3.1.17 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: geoffrey levand References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Rebooting/Halting system from kernel module X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 02:31:05 -0000 On 1/22/12 2:19 AM, geoffrey levand wrote: > Hi, > > how would i reboot/halt the system from a kernel module ? the answer is "that depends".. do you want to sync the disks first? of just hard reset? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 03:25:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E9271065672; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 03:25:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glneolistmail@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vx0-f182.google.com (mail-vx0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE088FC0C; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 03:25:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcbfl17 with SMTP id fl17so2411542vcb.13 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 19:25:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=rrOWXfuLwFfGghc4M+I6yBbZrA7aIOx9+CQWVjfRYIk=; b=w6gsW6efa6tMVnjVc+2Hyp6HTwiU6NFPAm8d/4q27+2LT8WBvCzm33D7ubFY7x7n+N F3wlvHkvEUdBmJiugMp2e9HUtWWAWyF3aWTDfE+YPAtGcEIi8Ifr1s/KipiwmMfZA508 zjb6DKGvtc43+zKvigU4nFAWEQlwts2e4zRwE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.224.135 with SMTP id io7mr3476309vcb.70.1327287819764; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 19:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.184.165 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 19:03:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4F1CC6A8.3010007@freebsd.org> References: <4F1CC6A8.3010007@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 22:03:39 -0500 Message-ID: From: Andrew Davis To: Julian Elischer , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Rebooting/Halting system from kernel module X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 03:25:33 -0000 >do you want to sync the disks first? of just hard reset? Why would anyone ever want to do that, you're a kernel mod, if you want to do that just triple-fault. On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Julian Elischer wrote: > On 1/22/12 2:19 AM, geoffrey levand wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> how would i reboot/halt the system from a kernel module ? >> > > the answer is "that depends".. > > do you want to sync the disks first? of just hard reset? > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/**mailman/listinfo/freebsd-**hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@** > freebsd.org " > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 05:39:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 966E0106566B; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 05:39:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD60F8FC16; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 05:39:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ur.gsoft.com.au (Ur.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.55]) (authenticated bits=0) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q0N56OsW093166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:36:30 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: "Daniel O'Connor" In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:36:24 +1030 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4F1CC6A8.3010007@freebsd.org> To: Andrew Davis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) X-Spam-Score: -2.51 () ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 203.31.81.10 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Rebooting/Halting system from kernel module X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 05:39:52 -0000 On 23/01/2012, at 13:33, Andrew Davis wrote: >> do you want to sync the disks first? of just hard reset? >=20 > Why would anyone ever want to do that, you're a kernel mod, if you = want to > do that just triple-fault. You can call cpu_reset(). I wrote a KLD which did this because we had a driver issue where the = system wouldn't reboot if you did shutdown -r (it would hang). =3D=3D=3D=3D reset.c =3D=3D=3D=3D #include #include #include #include #include #include static int reset_handler(module_t mod, int /*modeventtype_t*/ what, void *arg); static moduledata_t mod_data=3D { "reset", reset_handler, 0 }; MODULE_VERSION(reset, 1); DECLARE_MODULE(reset, mod_data, SI_SUB_EXEC, SI_ORDER_ANY); static int=20 reset_handler(module_t mod, int /*modeventtype_t*/ what, void *arg) { switch (what) { case MOD_LOAD: printf("Forced reboot\n"); DELAY(1000000); /* wait 1 sec for printf's to complete and = be read */ /* cpu_boot(howto); */ /* doesn't do anything at the moment = */ cpu_reset(); printf("Reset failed!\n"); /* NOTREACHED */ /* assuming reset worked */ break; =20 default: return(EOPNOTSUPP); break; } return(ENXIO); } =3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D Makefile =3D=3D=3D=3D KMOD =3D reset SRCS =3D reset.c .include =3D=3D=3D=3D > On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Julian Elischer = wrote: >=20 >> On 1/22/12 2:19 AM, geoffrey levand wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> how would i reboot/halt the system from a kernel module ? >>>=20 >>=20 >> the answer is "that depends".. >>=20 >> do you want to sync the disks first? of just hard reset? >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> ______________________________**_________________ >> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >> = http://lists.freebsd.org/**mailman/listinfo/freebsd-**hackers >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@** >> freebsd.org " >>=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 05:21:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1E111065678 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 05:21:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lgj@usenix.org) Received: from lonestar.usenix.org (lonestar.usenix.org [131.106.3.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79BFB8FC1C for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 05:21:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (c-76-102-194-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.102.194.116]) (authenticated bits=0) by lonestar.usenix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q0N5JPuQ021859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:21:17 -0800 (PST) From: Lionel Garth Jones Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:20:46 -0800 Message-Id: <49BF4E58-4CF0-4C32-AA02-2CB94A260450@usenix.org> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-DCC-Usenix-Metrics: lonestar; whitelist X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.2 required=6.0 tests=FH_DATE_PAST_20XX, RDNS_DYNAMIC autolearn=no version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on lonestar X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:00:43 +0000 Subject: HotPar '12 Submission Deadline Approaching X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 05:21:18 -0000 I'm writing to remind you that the submission deadline for the 4th USENIX Workshop on Hot Topics in Parallelism (HotPar '12) is approaching. Paper registration (abstract submission) is due Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 11:59 p.m. PST. Full paper submission is due Tuesday, January 31, 2012, 11:59 p.m. PST. There will be no extension of the deadlines. http://www.usenix.org/hotpar12/cfpb HotPar '12 will bring together researchers and practitioners doing innovative work in the area of parallel computing. Multicore and multithreaded processors are pervasive, and core counts are increasing. This trend is driven by limits on energy consumption in computer systems and the poor energy performance of increasingly complex uniprocessors. Parallel architectures can potentially mitigate these problems, but larger core counts will be successful only if languages, systems, and applications can take advantage of parallel hardware. Navigating this change will require new parallel programming paradigms, new methods of application design, new structures for system software, and new models of interaction among applications, compilers, operating systems, and hardware. We request submissions of position papers that propose new directions for research or products in these areas, advocate non-traditional approaches to the problems engendered by parallelism, or potentially generate controversy and discussion. More information and submission guidelines are available at http://www.usenix.org/hotpar12/cfpb We look forward to receiving your submissions. Sincerely, Hans-J. Boehm, HP Labs Luis Ceze, University of Washington HotPar Program Co-Chairs hotpar12chairs@usenix.org -------------------------------------------------------------- Call for Papers 4th USENIX Workshop on Hot Topics in Parallelism (HotPar '12) June 7-8, 2012, Berkeley, CA http://www.usenix.org/hotpar12/cfpb/ Paper registration (abstract submission) due: Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 11:59 p.m. PST Paper submission due: Tuesday, January 31, 2012, 11:59 p.m. PST -------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 07:16:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11229106566C for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 07:16:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from geoffrey.levand@mail.ru) Received: from f78.mail.ru (f78.mail.ru [217.69.128.226]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 631F68FC0C for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 07:16:11 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Message-Id: X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Mru-Karma: 0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:14:24 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcmV3IERhdmlz?= Subject: Re[2]: Rebooting/Halting system from kernel module X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: =?UTF-8?B?Z2VvZmZyZXkgbGV2YW5k?= List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 07:16:12 -0000 VGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgZXhhbXBsZS4KCnJlZ2FyZHMKCgoyMyDRj9C90LLQsNGA0Y8gMjAxMiwg MDk6NDEg0L7RgiAiRGFuaWVsIE8nQ29ubm9yIiA8ZG9jb25ub3JAZ3NvZnQuY29tLmF1PjoKPiAK PiBPbiAyMy8wMS8yMDEyLCBhdCAxMzozMywgQW5kcmV3IERhdmlzIHdyb3RlOgo+IAo+ID4+IGRv IHlvdSB3YW50IHRvIHN5bmMgdGhlIGRpc2tzIGZpcnN0PyBvZiBqdXN0IGhhcmQgcmVzZXQ/Cj4g Pgo+ID4gV2h5IHdvdWxkIGFueW9uZSBldmVyIHdhbnQgdG8gZG8gdGhhdCwgeW91J3JlIGEga2Vy bmVsIG1vZCwgaWYgeW91IHdhbnQgdG8KPiA+IGRvIHRoYXQganVzdCB0cmlwbGUtZmF1bHQuCj4g Cj4gWW91IGNhbiBjYWxsIGNwdV9yZXNldCgpLgo+IAo+IEkgd3JvdGUgYSBLTEQgd2hpY2ggZGlk IHRoaXMgYmVjYXVzZSB3ZSBoYWQgYSBkcml2ZXIgaXNzdWUgd2hlcmUgdGhlIHN5c3RlbSB3b3Vs ZG4ndCByZWJvb3QgaWYgeW91IGRpZCBzaHV0ZG93biAtciAoaXQgd291bGQgaGFuZykuCj4gCj4g PT09PSByZXNldC5jID09PT0KPiAjaW5jbHVkZSA8c3lzL3BhcmFtLmg+Cj4gI2luY2x1ZGUgPHN5 cy9rZXJuZWwuaD4KPiAjaW5jbHVkZSA8c3lzL21vZHVsZS5oPgo+ICNpbmNsdWRlIDxzeXMvdHlw ZXMuaD4KPiAjaW5jbHVkZSA8c3lzL3N5c3RtLmg+Cj4gI2luY2x1ZGUgPG1hY2hpbmUvY3B1Lmg+ Cj4gCj4gc3RhdGljIGludCByZXNldF9oYW5kbGVyKG1vZHVsZV90IG1vZCwgaW50IC8qbW9kZXZl bnR0eXBlX3QqLyB3aGF0LAo+IAkJICAgICAgIHZvaWQgKmFyZyk7Cj4gCj4gc3RhdGljIG1vZHVs ZWRhdGFfdCBtb2RfZGF0YT0gewo+ICAgICAicmVzZXQiLAo+ICAgICByZXNldF9oYW5kbGVyLAo+ ICAgICAwCj4gfTsKPiAKPiBNT0RVTEVfVkVSU0lPTihyZXNldCwgMSk7Cj4gCj4gREVDTEFSRV9N T0RVTEUocmVzZXQsIG1vZF9kYXRhLCBTSV9TVUJfRVhFQywgU0lfT1JERVJfQU5ZKTsKPiAKPiBz dGF0aWMgaW50Cj4gcmVzZXRfaGFuZGxlcihtb2R1bGVfdCBtb2QsIGludCAvKm1vZGV2ZW50dHlw ZV90Ki8gd2hhdCwgdm9pZCAqYXJnKSB7Cj4gICAgIHN3aXRjaCAod2hhdCkgewo+IAljYXNlIE1P RF9MT0FEOgo+IAkgICAgcHJpbnRmKCJGb3JjZWQgcmVib290XG4iKTsKPiAJICAgIERFTEFZKDEw MDAwMDApOyAvKiB3YWl0IDEgc2VjIGZvciBwcmludGYncyB0byBjb21wbGV0ZSBhbmQgYmUgcmVh ZCAqLwo+IAkgICAgLyogY3B1X2Jvb3QoaG93dG8pOyAqLyAvKiBkb2Vzbid0IGRvIGFueXRoaW5n IGF0IHRoZSBtb21lbnQgKi8KPiAJICAgIGNwdV9yZXNldCgpOwo+IAkgICAgcHJpbnRmKCJSZXNl dCBmYWlsZWQhXG4iKTsKPiAJICAgIC8qIE5PVFJFQUNIRUQgKi8gLyogYXNzdW1pbmcgcmVzZXQg d29ya2VkICovCj4gCSAgICBicmVhazsKPiAJCj4gCWRlZmF1bHQ6Cj4gCSAgICByZXR1cm4oRU9Q Tk9UU1VQUCk7Cj4gCSAgICBicmVhazsKPiAgICAgfQo+IAo+ICAgICByZXR1cm4oRU5YSU8pOwo+ IH0KPiA9PT09Cj4gCj4gPT09PSBNYWtlZmlsZSA9PT09Cj4gS01PRAk9IHJlc2V0Cj4gU1JDUwk9 IHJlc2V0LmMKPiAKPiAuaW5jbHVkZSA8YnNkLmttb2QubWs+Cj4gPT09PQo+IAo+ID4gT24gU3Vu LCBKYW4gMjIsIDIwMTIgYXQgOTozMiBQTSwgSnVsaWFuIEVsaXNjaGVyIDxqdWxpYW5AZnJlZWJz ZC5vcmc+IHdyb3RlOgo+ID4KPiA+PiBPbiAxLzIyLzEyIDI6MTkgQU0sIGdlb2ZmcmV5IGxldmFu ZCB3cm90ZToKPiA+Pgo+ID4+PiBIaSwKPiA+Pj4KPiA+Pj4gaG93IHdvdWxkIGkgcmVib290L2hh bHQgdGhlIHN5c3RlbSBmcm9tIGEga2VybmVsIG1vZHVsZSA/Cj4gPj4+Cj4gPj4KPiA+PiB0aGUg YW5zd2VyIGlzICJ0aGF0IGRlcGVuZHMiLi4KPiA+Pgo+ID4+IGRvIHlvdSB3YW50IHRvIHN5bmMg dGhlIGRpc2tzIGZpcnN0PyBvZiBqdXN0IGhhcmQgcmVzZXQ/Cj4gPj4KPiA+Pgo+ID4+Cj4gPj4g X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fKipfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwo+ID4+IGZy ZWVic2QtaGFja2Vyc0BmcmVlYnNkLm9yZyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKPiA+PiBodHRwOi8vbGlzdHMu ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmcvKiptYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2ZyZWVic2QtKipoYWNrZXJzPGh0dHA6Ly9s aXN0cy5mcmVlYnNkLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2ZyZWVic2QtaGFja2Vycz4KPiA+PiBU byB1bnN1YnNjcmliZSwgc2VuZCBhbnkgbWFpbCB0byAiZnJlZWJzZC1oYWNrZXJzLXVuc3Vic2Ny aWJlQCoqCj4gPj4gZnJlZWJzZC5vcmcgPGZyZWVic2QtaGFja2Vycy11bnN1YnNjcmliZUBmcmVl YnNkLm9yZz4iCj4gPj4KPiA+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fCj4gPiBmcmVlYnNkLWhhY2tlcnNAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmcgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cj4g PiBodHRwOi8vbGlzdHMuZnJlZWJzZC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9mcmVlYnNkLWhhY2tl cnMKPiA+IFRvIHVuc3Vic2NyaWJlLCBzZW5kIGFueSBtYWlsIHRvICJmcmVlYnNkLWhhY2tlcnMt dW5zdWJzY3JpYmVAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmciCj4gPgo+IAo+IC0tCj4gRGFuaWVsIE8nQ29ubm9yIHNv ZnR3YXJlIGFuZCBuZXR3b3JrIGVuZ2luZWVyCj4gZm9yIEdlbmVzaXMgU29mdHdhcmUgLSBodHRw Oi8vd3d3Lmdzb2Z0LmNvbS5hdQo+ICJUaGUgbmljZSB0aGluZyBhYm91dCBzdGFuZGFyZHMgaXMg dGhhdCB0aGVyZQo+IGFyZSBzbyBtYW55IG9mIHRoZW0gdG8gY2hvb3NlIGZyb20uIgo+ICAgLS0g QW5kcmV3IFRhbmVuYmF1bQo+IEdQRyBGaW5nZXJwcmludCAtIDU1OTYgQjc2NiA5N0MwIDBFOTQg NDM0NyAyOTVFIEU1OTMgREMyMCA3QjNGIENFOEMKPiAKPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwo+IGZyZWVic2QtaGFja2Vyc0BmcmVlYnNkLm9yZyBt YWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKPiBodHRwOi8vbGlzdHMuZnJlZWJzZC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9m cmVlYnNkLWhhY2tlcnMKPiBUbyB1bnN1YnNjcmliZSwgc2VuZCBhbnkgbWFpbCB0byAiZnJlZWJz ZC1oYWNrZXJzLXVuc3Vic2NyaWJlQGZyZWVic2Qub3JnIgo+IA== From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 07:17:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5649A106566B for ; 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rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1 References: <4F1CC6A8.3010007@freebsd.org> X-Mru-Data: 282:0:0:202:202:0 In-Reply-To: X-Priority: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Message-Id: X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Mru-Karma: 0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:15:38 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re[2]: Rebooting/Halting system from kernel module X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: =?UTF-8?B?Z2VvZmZyZXkgbGV2YW5k?= List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 07:17:04 -0000 SSdtIGltcGxlbWVudGluZyBwb3dlciBidXR0b24gZnVuY3Rpb25hbGl0eSBvbiBQUzMuCkkgd2Fu dCBGcmVlQlNEIHRvIHNodXRkb3duIHdoZW4gaSBwcmVzcyB0aGUgYnV0dG9uIGxpa2Ugb24gTGlu dXguCgpyZWdhcmRzCgoKMjMg0Y/QvdCy0LDRgNGPIDIwMTIsIDA3OjI2INC+0YIgQW5kcmV3IERh dmlzIDxnbG5lb2xpc3RtYWlsQGdtYWlsLmNvbT46Cj4gPmRvIHlvdSB3YW50IHRvIHN5bmMgdGhl IGRpc2tzIGZpcnN0PyBvZiBqdXN0IGhhcmQgcmVzZXQ/Cj4gCj4gV2h5IHdvdWxkIGFueW9uZSBl dmVyIHdhbnQgdG8gZG8gdGhhdCwgeW91J3JlIGEga2VybmVsIG1vZCwgaWYgeW91IHdhbnQgdG8K PiBkbyB0aGF0IGp1c3QgdHJpcGxlLWZhdWx0Lgo+IAo+IE9uIFN1biwgSmFuIDIyLCAyMDEyIGF0 IDk6MzIgUE0sIEp1bGlhbiBFbGlzY2hlciA8anVsaWFuQGZyZWVic2Qub3JnPiB3cm90ZToKPiAK PiA+IE9uIDEvMjIvMTIgMjoxOSBBTSwgZ2VvZmZyZXkgbGV2YW5kIHdyb3RlOgo+ID4KPiA+PiBI aSwKPiA+Pgo+ID4+IGhvdyB3b3VsZCBpIHJlYm9vdC9oYWx0IHRoZSBzeXN0ZW0gZnJvbSBhIGtl cm5lbCBtb2R1bGUgPwo+ID4+Cj4gPgo+ID4gdGhlIGFuc3dlciBpcyAidGhhdCBkZXBlbmRzIi4u Cj4gPgo+ID4gZG8geW91IHdhbnQgdG8gc3luYyB0aGUgZGlza3MgZmlyc3Q/IG9mIGp1c3QgaGFy ZCByZXNldD8KPiA+Cj4gPgo+ID4KPiA+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXyoq X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KPiA+IGZyZWVic2QtaGFja2Vyc0BmcmVlYnNkLm9yZyBtYWlsaW5n IGxpc3QKPiA+IGh0dHA6Ly9saXN0cy5mcmVlYnNkLm9yZy8qKm1haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZnJl ZWJzZC0qKmhhY2tlcnM8aHR0cDovL2xpc3RzLmZyZWVic2Qub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8v ZnJlZWJzZC1oYWNrZXJzPgo+ID4gVG8gdW5zdWJzY3JpYmUsIHNlbmQgYW55IG1haWwgdG8gImZy ZWVic2QtaGFja2Vycy11bnN1YnNjcmliZUAqKgo+ID4gZnJlZWJzZC5vcmcgPGZyZWVic2QtaGFj a2Vycy11bnN1YnNjcmliZUBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZz4iCj4gPgo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCj4gZnJlZWJzZC1oYWNrZXJzQGZyZWVic2Qub3Jn IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdAo+IGh0dHA6Ly9saXN0cy5mcmVlYnNkLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZv L2ZyZWVic2QtaGFja2Vycwo+IFRvIHVuc3Vic2NyaWJlLCBzZW5kIGFueSBtYWlsIHRvICJmcmVl YnNkLWhhY2tlcnMtdW5zdWJzY3JpYmVAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmciCj4g From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 07:17:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B47A8106564A for ; 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rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1 References: <4F1CC6A8.3010007@freebsd.org> X-Mru-Data: 282:0:0:202:202:0 In-Reply-To: <4F1CC6A8.3010007@freebsd.org> X-Priority: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Message-Id: X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Mru-Karma: 0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:16:03 +0000 Cc: =?UTF-8?B?ZnJlZWJzZC1oYWNrZXJz?= Subject: Re[2]: Rebooting/Halting system from kernel module X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: =?UTF-8?B?Z2VvZmZyZXkgbGV2YW5k?= List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 07:17:36 -0000 Tm8sIG5vIGhhcmQgcmVzZXQgYnV0IGdyYWNlZnVsIHNodXRkb3duL3JlYm9vdC4KCnJlZ2FyZHMK CgoyMyDRj9C90LLQsNGA0Y8gMjAxMiwgMDY6MzEg0L7RgiBKdWxpYW4gRWxpc2NoZXIgPGp1bGlh bkBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZz46Cj4gT24gMS8yMi8xMiAyOjE5IEFNLCBnZW9mZnJleSBsZXZhbmQgd3Jv dGU6Cj4gPiBIaSwKPiA+Cj4gPiBob3cgd291bGQgaSByZWJvb3QvaGFsdCB0aGUgc3lzdGVtIGZy b20gYSBrZXJuZWwgbW9kdWxlID8KPiAKPiB0aGUgYW5zd2VyIGlzICJ0aGF0IGRlcGVuZHMiLi4K PiAKPiBkbyB5b3Ugd2FudCB0byBzeW5jIHRoZSBkaXNrcyBmaXJzdD8gb2YganVzdCBoYXJkIHJl c2V0Pwo+IAo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f Cj4gZnJlZWJzZC1oYWNrZXJzQGZyZWVic2Qub3JnIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdAo+IGh0dHA6Ly9saXN0 cy5mcmVlYnNkLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2ZyZWVic2QtaGFja2Vycwo+IFRvIHVuc3Vi c2NyaWJlLCBzZW5kIGFueSBtYWlsIHRvICJmcmVlYnNkLWhhY2tlcnMtdW5zdWJzY3JpYmVAZnJl ZWJzZC5vcmciCj4g From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 15:11:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA7AE1065670; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:11:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from f0andrey@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vx0-f182.google.com (mail-vx0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8458C8FC0C; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:11:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcbfl17 with SMTP id fl17so2935834vcb.13 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 07:11:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=IzCMxa+vxLz0wwQQp/0/c4PSx5YXSAApAtqweR+k0VI=; b=PGiehfEIVjwD4RhDhoj0iOOpgVJajmbwvtL8KaExbLPG6Q9JsSAVXlqWCtdZCOX5GT 1yjCGber2egSK3hC5DM161U2wbFtSPUUYZx4wm4oUIuxzzeOXigADvHo1cqZONfAHgeW pHspbQAa4IC7Di/Q5NVmshmHNp4PBqxzvhvdU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.115.135 with SMTP id i7mr4693537vcq.40.1327329977280; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:46:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.187.130 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:46:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:46:17 +0300 Message-ID: From: Andrey Fesenko To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Root on ZFS & GPT and boot to ufs partition X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:11:06 -0000 System install for manual http://wiki.freebsd.org/RootOnZFS/GPTZFSBoot only + freebsd-ufs (ada0p2) > uname -a FreeBSD beastie.mydomain.local 10.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT #0 r229812: Mon Jan 9 19:08:10 MSK 2012 andrey@beastie.mydomain.local:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/W_BOOK amd64 > gpart show => 34 625142381 ada0 GPT (298G) 34 128 1 freebsd-boot (64k) 162 26621952 2 freebsd-ufs (12G) 26622114 8388608 3 freebsd-swap (4.0G) 35010722 590131693 4 freebsd-zfs (281G) boot code MBR (pmbr) and gptzfsboot loader In the old loader was F1,F2,F3.... new no :( Is there a way to boot system freebsd-ufs (ada0p2) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 15:41:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B82D1065672 for ; 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[95.132.179.32]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m8sm20971178wia.11.2012.01.23.07.18.23 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 23 Jan 2012 07:18:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4F1D7A3E.9050806@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:18:22 +0200 From: Volodymyr Kostyrko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20120110 Firefox/9.0.1 SeaMonkey/2.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrey Fesenko References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Root on ZFS & GPT and boot to ufs partition X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:41:17 -0000 Andrey Fesenko wrote: > System install for manual http://wiki.freebsd.org/RootOnZFS/GPTZFSBoot > only + freebsd-ufs (ada0p2) >> uname -a > FreeBSD beastie.mydomain.local 10.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT #0 > r229812: Mon Jan 9 19:08:10 MSK 2012 > andrey@beastie.mydomain.local:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/W_BOOK amd64 >> gpart show > => 34 625142381 ada0 GPT (298G) > 34 128 1 freebsd-boot (64k) > 162 26621952 2 freebsd-ufs (12G) > 26622114 8388608 3 freebsd-swap (4.0G) > 35010722 590131693 4 freebsd-zfs (281G) > boot code MBR (pmbr) and gptzfsboot loader > > In the old loader was F1,F2,F3.... new no :( > > Is there a way to boot system freebsd-ufs (ada0p2) `gpart set -a bootonce -i 2 ada0` should do. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 16:13:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 024A61065672; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:13:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from f0andrey@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vw0-f54.google.com (mail-vw0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0EB58FC0A; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:13:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vbbey12 with SMTP id ey12so3003267vbb.13 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 08:13:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=X7thbNFkl5wJpqpXeutcerbjoGvPVK+GnI66rcr5AGY=; b=eGdQqcEZ0b1XafmCJFJ8YA0HkWfhXqGlBPxY0rmJJEWVLp35O1Mb2sc/5cu5FaMhFN pCMTnRSi5ryEGjEVcauMFfkdo8yNAQ3ScQR+xeAjj+UhCFOlf8IYcXqXRN7IoPwydkF9 ESgVflbjiVTEVps69ToN97Q/LpqnuUughIKTU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.71.33 with SMTP id r1mr4202655vdu.113.1327335218962; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 08:13:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.187.130 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 08:13:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4F1D7A3E.9050806@gmail.com> References: <4F1D7A3E.9050806@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:13:38 +0300 Message-ID: From: Andrey Fesenko To: Volodymyr Kostyrko Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Root on ZFS & GPT and boot to ufs partition X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:13:40 -0000 On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 7:18 PM, Volodymyr Kostyrko wro= te: > Andrey Fesenko wrote: >> >> System install for manual http://wiki.freebsd.org/RootOnZFS/GPTZFSBoot >> only + freebsd-ufs (ada0p2) >>> >>> uname -a >> >> FreeBSD beastie.mydomain.local 10.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT #0 >> r229812: Mon Jan =C2=A09 19:08:10 MSK 2012 >> andrey@beastie.mydomain.local:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/W_BOOK =C2=A0amd64 >>> >>> gpart show >> >> =3D> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A034 =C2=A0625142381 =C2=A0ada0 =C2=A0GPT = =C2=A0(298G) >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A034 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0128 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 1 =C2=A0freebsd-boot =C2=A0(64k) >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 162 =C2=A0 26621952 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2 =C2=A0fr= eebsd-ufs =C2=A0(12G) >> =C2=A0 =C2=A026622114 =C2=A0 =C2=A08388608 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 3 =C2=A0freebsd= -swap =C2=A0(4.0G) >> =C2=A0 =C2=A035010722 =C2=A0590131693 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 4 =C2=A0freebsd-zfs = =C2=A0(281G) >> boot code MBR (pmbr) and gptzfsboot loader >> >> In the old loader was F1,F2,F3.... new no :( >> >> Is there a way to boot system freebsd-ufs (ada0p2) > > > `gpart set -a bootonce -i 2 ada0` should do. > > -- > Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. # gpart set -a bootonce -i 2 ada0 bootonce set on ada0p2 #shutdown -r now No, not work. After reboot freebsd-zfs (ada0p4) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 18:07:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90AD81065677 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:07:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 522A08FC23 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:07:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (ltcfislmsgpa06 [127.0.0.1]) by ltcfislmsgpa06.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q0NHSJeo019620 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:07:01 -0600 Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.17]) by ltcfislmsgpa06.fnfis.com with ESMTP id 12hbkf0agg-14 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:07:01 -0600 Received: from dtwin (10.14.152.15) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:06:51 -0600 From: Devin Teske To: Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:06:49 -0800 Message-ID: <009501ccd9f9$cad088d0$60719a70$@fisglobal.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AczZ9/5+wWQNMkPcRASncZTp61Im5Q== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.15] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7361, 1.0.211, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-01-23_03:2012-01-22, 2012-01-23, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Subject: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:07:02 -0000 I have a Parallels virtual machine and it runs FreeBSD 4 through 8 just swimmingly. However, in RELENG_9 I notice something different. My once "ad0" is now showing up as "ada0". However, something even stranger is that devfs is providing both ad0 family devices AND ada0 family devices. What's worse is that I can't seem to partition the disk with MBR+disklabel scheme. My procedure goes something like this: 1. Boot from RELENG_9 LiveCD 2. Execute: sysctl -n kern.disks 3. Notice two items: cd0 ada0 4. Look in /dev 5. Notice several items: ad0 ad0p1 ad0p2 ad0p3 ada0 ada0p1 ada0p2 ada0p3 6. Wipe partition table by executing: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/ada0 bs=512k count=256 7. Look in /dev 8. Notice less items now: ad0 ada0 9. Execute: sysctl -n kern.disks 10. Notice nothing changed: cd0 ada0 11. Write out standard "whole disk" MBR "slice" 12. Look in /dev 13. Notice that nothing changed: ad0 ada0 NOTE: Where is ad0s1 or ada0s1? 14. Use fdisk to make sure everything was written successfully 15. Notice everything looks good (slice 1 is of type FreeBSD, slice 2, 3, and 4 are unused) 16. Reboot 17. Boot back into RELENG_9 LiveCD 18. Look in /dev 19. Notice that the old devices are back!: ad0 ad0p1 ad0p2 ad0p3 ada0 ada0p1 ada0p2 ada0p3 20. Use fstab to look at MBR partition table 21. Notice that things look good (with respect to fdisk'ing): slice 1 is FreeBSD, 2, 3, and 4 are still unused 22. Notice /dev still doesn't have ad0s1 or ada0s1 23. Use gpart to look at ada0 24. Notice "GPT [CORRUPT]" ... OK!?!? ... Use same exact RELENG_9 LiveCD on either a physical machine or VMware Virtual machine. SUCCESS!! Go back to Parallels 4 FAILURE!! Go back to RELENG_8 LiveCD with Parallels 4 SUCCESS!! What's going on here? I think ada(4) is my problem. Can someone please provide feedback? Willing to dig further and provide any/all feedback to help fix this regression. -- Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. 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From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 18:15:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A35B3106566B for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:15:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-tul01m020-f182.google.com (mail-tul01m020-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F6EB8FC13 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:15:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcwo16 with SMTP id wo16so4936068obc.13 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:15:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=JckZnxsUyGYl36PodRata4BMVi97BoG+Y61G9iNlii0=; b=QwecA9V3LwS6FPsRFui8MSnjKHbo2IMU6+jVNXLsYGINmm6jQvHLYUlt58O2lsA+lO wcnoxIqhzx+uzXNsxYAAk/wUBmN50JfAgnJ8AkhZ9RsijcdsaMYhOwSnCUcpbU8bzA+g IW7NBSlNC+3+fH4VGChqMqsAFHkFebzJDJTJE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.8.69 with SMTP id p5mr8824518oba.28.1327342547798; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:15:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.46.163 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:15:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <009501ccd9f9$cad088d0$60719a70$@fisglobal.com> References: <009501ccd9f9$cad088d0$60719a70$@fisglobal.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:15:47 -0800 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Devin Teske Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:15:48 -0000 On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Devin Teske wrote: > I have a Parallels virtual machine and it runs FreeBSD 4 through 8 just > swimmingly. > > However, in RELENG_9 I notice something different. My once "ad0" is now showing > up as "ada0". However, something even stranger is that devfs is providing both > ad0 family devices AND ada0 family devices. > > What's worse is that I can't seem to partition the disk with MBR+disklabel > scheme. > > My procedure goes something like this: > > 1. Boot from RELENG_9 LiveCD > 2. Execute: sysctl -n kern.disks > 3. Notice two items: cd0 ada0 > 4. Look in /dev > 5. Notice several items: ad0 ad0p1 ad0p2 ad0p3 ada0 ada0p1 ada0p2 ada0p3 > 6. Wipe partition table by executing: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/ada0 bs=512k > count=256 > 7. Look in /dev > 8. Notice less items now: ad0 ada0 > 9. Execute: sysctl -n kern.disks > 10. Notice nothing changed: cd0 ada0 > 11. Write out standard "whole disk" MBR "slice" > 12. Look in /dev > 13. Notice that nothing changed: ad0 ada0 > NOTE: Where is ad0s1 or ada0s1? > 14. Use fdisk to make sure everything was written successfully > 15. Notice everything looks good (slice 1 is of type FreeBSD, slice 2, 3, and 4 > are unused) > 16. Reboot > 17. Boot back into RELENG_9 LiveCD > 18. Look in /dev > 19. Notice that the old devices are back!: ad0 ad0p1 ad0p2 ad0p3 ada0 ada0p1 > ada0p2 ada0p3 > 20. Use fstab to look at MBR partition table > 21. Notice that things look good (with respect to fdisk'ing): slice 1 is > FreeBSD, 2, 3, and 4 are still unused > 22. Notice /dev still doesn't have ad0s1 or ada0s1 > 23. Use gpart to look at ada0 > 24. Notice "GPT [CORRUPT]" > > ... > > OK!?!? > > ... > > Use same exact RELENG_9 LiveCD on either a physical machine or VMware Virtual > machine. > > SUCCESS!! > > Go back to Parallels 4 > > FAILURE!! > > Go back to RELENG_8 LiveCD with Parallels 4 > > SUCCESS!! > > What's going on here? I think ada(4) is my problem. Can someone please provide > feedback? Willing to dig further and provide any/all feedback to help fix this > regression. The 'bug' is in gpart/geom and the 'issue' is present in prior versions of FreeBSD. The backup partition is now more of a thorn in everyone's side than previous versions. gpart delete'ing all the partitions, then doing gpart destroy is probably what you want (there isn't a simple one-liner that would do this). Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 18:17:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB48106568A for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:17:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) Received: from qmta10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.17]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8290B8FC13 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:17:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.73]) by qmta10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id R64A1i0021afHeLAA6H25Z; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:17:02 +0000 Received: from damnhippie.dyndns.org ([24.8.232.202]) by omta17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id R6H01i00b4NgCEG8d6H19q; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:17:01 +0000 Received: from [172.22.42.240] (revolution.hippie.lan [172.22.42.240]) by damnhippie.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q0NIGwJH011925; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:16:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) From: Ian Lepore To: Devin Teske In-Reply-To: <009501ccd9f9$cad088d0$60719a70$@fisglobal.com> References: <009501ccd9f9$cad088d0$60719a70$@fisglobal.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:16:58 -0700 Message-Id: <1327342618.69022.83.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.0 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:17:02 -0000 On Mon, 2012-01-23 at 10:06 -0800, Devin Teske wrote: > I have a Parallels virtual machine and it runs FreeBSD 4 through 8 just > swimmingly. > > However, in RELENG_9 I notice something different. My once "ad0" is now showing > up as "ada0". However, something even stranger is that devfs is providing both > ad0 family devices AND ada0 family devices. > > What's worse is that I can't seem to partition the disk with MBR+disklabel > scheme. > > My procedure goes something like this: > > 1. Boot from RELENG_9 LiveCD > 2. Execute: sysctl -n kern.disks > 3. Notice two items: cd0 ada0 > 4. Look in /dev > 5. Notice several items: ad0 ad0p1 ad0p2 ad0p3 ada0 ada0p1 ada0p2 ada0p3 > 6. Wipe partition table by executing: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/ada0 bs=512k > count=256 > 7. Look in /dev > 8. Notice less items now: ad0 ada0 > 9. Execute: sysctl -n kern.disks > 10. Notice nothing changed: cd0 ada0 > 11. Write out standard "whole disk" MBR "slice" > 12. Look in /dev > 13. Notice that nothing changed: ad0 ada0 > NOTE: Where is ad0s1 or ada0s1? > 14. Use fdisk to make sure everything was written successfully > 15. Notice everything looks good (slice 1 is of type FreeBSD, slice 2, 3, and 4 > are unused) > 16. Reboot > 17. Boot back into RELENG_9 LiveCD > 18. Look in /dev > 19. Notice that the old devices are back!: ad0 ad0p1 ad0p2 ad0p3 ada0 ada0p1 > ada0p2 ada0p3 > 20. Use fstab to look at MBR partition table > 21. Notice that things look good (with respect to fdisk'ing): slice 1 is > FreeBSD, 2, 3, and 4 are still unused > 22. Notice /dev still doesn't have ad0s1 or ada0s1 > 23. Use gpart to look at ada0 > 24. Notice "GPT [CORRUPT]" > > ... > > OK!?!? > > ... > > Use same exact RELENG_9 LiveCD on either a physical machine or VMware Virtual > machine. > > SUCCESS!! > > Go back to Parallels 4 > > FAILURE!! > > Go back to RELENG_8 LiveCD with Parallels 4 > > SUCCESS!! > > What's going on here? I think ada(4) is my problem. Can someone please provide > feedback? Willing to dig further and provide any/all feedback to help fix this > regression. I've experienced the part of that scenario where changing a drive from gpt to mbr scheme results in all the gpt partitions reappearing after a reboot. I concluded (but didn't take time to be absolutely certain) that during boot the geom layer was seeing the backup gpt partition info at the end of the disk and concluding that it needed to ignore the mbr and use the backup gpt info instead. Once I quit using dd and similar tools and consistantly used "gpart destroy" to wipe out the gpt before changing to mbr, it stopped happening. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 18:18:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8BD11065672 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:18:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01B28FC18 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:18:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (ltcfislmsgpa06 [127.0.0.1]) by ltcfislmsgpa06.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q0NHxfOH022793; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:18:42 -0600 Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.15]) by ltcfislmsgpa06.fnfis.com with ESMTP id 12hbkf0c39-8 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:18:42 -0600 Received: from dtwin (10.14.152.15) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:18:16 -0600 From: Devin Teske To: "'Garrett Cooper'" References: <009501ccd9f9$cad088d0$60719a70$@fisglobal.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:18:18 -0800 Message-ID: <009a01ccd9fb$628ce000$27a6a000$@fisglobal.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQI49xgFl+9M2RezXQleHqiUG5VWrwIlL0z1lTDervA= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.15] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7361, 1.0.211, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-01-23_03:2012-01-22, 2012-01-23, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:18:43 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Garrett Cooper [mailto:yanegomi@gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 10:16 AM > To: Devin Teske > Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 > > On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Devin Teske > wrote: > > I have a Parallels virtual machine and it runs FreeBSD 4 through 8 just > > swimmingly. > > > > However, in RELENG_9 I notice something different. My once "ad0" is now > showing > > up as "ada0". However, something even stranger is that devfs is providing both > > ad0 family devices AND ada0 family devices. > > > > What's worse is that I can't seem to partition the disk with MBR+disklabel > > scheme. > > > > My procedure goes something like this: > > > > 1. Boot from RELENG_9 LiveCD > > 2. Execute: sysctl -n kern.disks > > 3. Notice two items: cd0 ada0 > > 4. Look in /dev > > 5. Notice several items: ad0 ad0p1 ad0p2 ad0p3 ada0 ada0p1 ada0p2 ada0p3 > > 6. Wipe partition table by executing: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/ada0 bs=512k > > count=256 > > 7. Look in /dev > > 8. Notice less items now: ad0 ada0 > > 9. Execute: sysctl -n kern.disks > > 10. Notice nothing changed: cd0 ada0 > > 11. Write out standard "whole disk" MBR "slice" > > 12. Look in /dev > > 13. Notice that nothing changed: ad0 ada0 > > NOTE: Where is ad0s1 or ada0s1? > > 14. Use fdisk to make sure everything was written successfully > > 15. Notice everything looks good (slice 1 is of type FreeBSD, slice 2, 3, and 4 > > are unused) > > 16. Reboot > > 17. Boot back into RELENG_9 LiveCD > > 18. Look in /dev > > 19. Notice that the old devices are back!: ad0 ad0p1 ad0p2 ad0p3 ada0 ada0p1 > > ada0p2 ada0p3 > > 20. Use fstab to look at MBR partition table > > 21. Notice that things look good (with respect to fdisk'ing): slice 1 is > > FreeBSD, 2, 3, and 4 are still unused > > 22. Notice /dev still doesn't have ad0s1 or ada0s1 > > 23. Use gpart to look at ada0 > > 24. Notice "GPT [CORRUPT]" > > > > ... > > > > OK!?!? > > > > ... > > > > Use same exact RELENG_9 LiveCD on either a physical machine or VMware > Virtual > > machine. > > > > SUCCESS!! > > > > Go back to Parallels 4 > > > > FAILURE!! > > > > Go back to RELENG_8 LiveCD with Parallels 4 > > > > SUCCESS!! > > > > What's going on here? I think ada(4) is my problem. Can someone please > provide > > feedback? Willing to dig further and provide any/all feedback to help fix this > > regression. > > The 'bug' is in gpart/geom and the 'issue' is present in prior > versions of FreeBSD. The backup partition is now more of a thorn in > everyone's side than previous versions. gpart delete'ing all the > partitions, then doing gpart destroy is probably what you want (there > isn't a simple one-liner that would do this). So "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/ada0 bs=512k count=256" is not enough to wipe out "the backup partition" (presumably created by prior-usage of bsdinstall guided/auto partitioning)?? -- Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 18:20:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A3A11065687 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:20:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-tul01m020-f182.google.com (mail-tul01m020-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03DEC8FC14 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:20:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcwo16 with SMTP id wo16so4943419obc.13 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:20:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fxYxXuiBJ+ZMTVd9IrOtp/eSlf536scC6IZv33YGJDE=; b=jc8nARZBLH/pEXvtUDoKJchqEmmNLBETsjqywTbAQuKj0uKb6rtyOySKPrZTBM61FR nh3vPojrbdYqhYSR80gogwZ44c0dUWL6qewzjBVeDgzR33L6NZ0HDyL2FVtzFJIpqa9K 4KZuYroiynDmztgewPeZ45H0IYiaaV3CPoVLw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.8.69 with SMTP id p5mr8842281oba.28.1327342839226; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:20:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.46.163 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:20:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <009a01ccd9fb$628ce000$27a6a000$@fisglobal.com> References: <009501ccd9f9$cad088d0$60719a70$@fisglobal.com> <009a01ccd9fb$628ce000$27a6a000$@fisglobal.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:20:39 -0800 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Devin Teske Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:20:40 -0000 On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Devin Teske w= rote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Garrett Cooper [mailto:yanegomi@gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 10:16 AM >> To: Devin Teske >> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org >> Subject: Re: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 >> ... >> =A0 =A0 The 'bug' is in gpart/geom and the 'issue' is present in prior >> versions of FreeBSD. The backup partition is now more of a thorn in >> everyone's side than previous versions. gpart delete'ing all the >> partitions, then doing gpart destroy is probably what you want (there >> isn't a simple one-liner that would do this). > > So "dd if=3D/dev/zero of=3D/dev/ada0 bs=3D512k count=3D256" is not enough= to wipe out > "the backup partition" (presumably created by prior-usage of bsdinstall > guided/auto partitioning)?? The backup partition sits at the back of the disk, so yes that dd by itself won't work. Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 18:21:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08D46106564A for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:21:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C569F8FC1E for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:21:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (ltcfislmsgpa03 [127.0.0.1]) by ltcfislmsgpa03.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q0NHfboR017838; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:21:09 -0600 Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.16]) by ltcfislmsgpa03.fnfis.com with ESMTP id 12hc5xr605-8 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:21:09 -0600 Received: from dtwin (10.14.152.15) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:20:33 -0600 From: Devin Teske To: "'Ian Lepore'" References: <009501ccd9f9$cad088d0$60719a70$@fisglobal.com> <1327342618.69022.83.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> In-Reply-To: <1327342618.69022.83.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:20:35 -0800 Message-ID: <009c01ccd9fb$b40cfaf0$1c26f0d0$@fisglobal.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQI49xgFl+9M2RezXQleHqiUG5VWrwH+7YvilTIRdFA= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.15] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7361, 1.0.211, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-01-23_03:2012-01-22, 2012-01-23, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:21:15 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Lepore [mailto:freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org] > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 10:17 AM > To: Devin Teske > Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 > > On Mon, 2012-01-23 at 10:06 -0800, Devin Teske wrote: > > I have a Parallels virtual machine and it runs FreeBSD 4 through 8 just > > swimmingly. > > > > However, in RELENG_9 I notice something different. My once "ad0" is now > showing > > up as "ada0". However, something even stranger is that devfs is providing both > > ad0 family devices AND ada0 family devices. > > > > What's worse is that I can't seem to partition the disk with MBR+disklabel > > scheme. > > > > My procedure goes something like this: > > > > 1. Boot from RELENG_9 LiveCD > > 2. Execute: sysctl -n kern.disks > > 3. Notice two items: cd0 ada0 > > 4. Look in /dev > > 5. Notice several items: ad0 ad0p1 ad0p2 ad0p3 ada0 ada0p1 ada0p2 ada0p3 > > 6. Wipe partition table by executing: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/ada0 bs=512k > > count=256 > > 7. Look in /dev > > 8. Notice less items now: ad0 ada0 > > 9. Execute: sysctl -n kern.disks > > 10. Notice nothing changed: cd0 ada0 > > 11. Write out standard "whole disk" MBR "slice" > > 12. Look in /dev > > 13. Notice that nothing changed: ad0 ada0 > > NOTE: Where is ad0s1 or ada0s1? > > 14. Use fdisk to make sure everything was written successfully > > 15. Notice everything looks good (slice 1 is of type FreeBSD, slice 2, 3, and 4 > > are unused) > > 16. Reboot > > 17. Boot back into RELENG_9 LiveCD > > 18. Look in /dev > > 19. Notice that the old devices are back!: ad0 ad0p1 ad0p2 ad0p3 ada0 ada0p1 > > ada0p2 ada0p3 > > 20. Use fstab to look at MBR partition table > > 21. Notice that things look good (with respect to fdisk'ing): slice 1 is > > FreeBSD, 2, 3, and 4 are still unused > > 22. Notice /dev still doesn't have ad0s1 or ada0s1 > > 23. Use gpart to look at ada0 > > 24. Notice "GPT [CORRUPT]" > > > > ... > > > > OK!?!? > > > > ... > > > > Use same exact RELENG_9 LiveCD on either a physical machine or VMware > Virtual > > machine. > > > > SUCCESS!! > > > > Go back to Parallels 4 > > > > FAILURE!! > > > > Go back to RELENG_8 LiveCD with Parallels 4 > > > > SUCCESS!! > > > > What's going on here? I think ada(4) is my problem. Can someone please > provide > > feedback? Willing to dig further and provide any/all feedback to help fix this > > regression. > > I've experienced the part of that scenario where changing a drive from > gpt to mbr scheme results in all the gpt partitions reappearing after a > reboot. I concluded (but didn't take time to be absolutely certain) > that during boot the geom layer was seeing the backup gpt partition info > at the end of the disk Ah! There's a backup partition at the END of the disk! /me is new to GPT > and concluding that it needed to ignore the mbr > and use the backup gpt info instead. Once I quit using dd and similar > tools and consistantly used "gpart destroy" to wipe out the gpt before > changing to mbr, it stopped happening. > Ah! Thanks Ian (and Garrett in another reply)! I'll give "gpart destroy a try" -- Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 18:24:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DEEC1065670 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:24:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) Received: from qmta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.80]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30DCF8FC17 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:24:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.11]) by qmta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id R6MR1i00F0EPchoA86QiNY; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:24:42 +0000 Received: from damnhippie.dyndns.org ([24.8.232.202]) by omta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id R6Qh1i00V4NgCEG8M6QiFs; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:24:42 +0000 Received: from [172.22.42.240] (revolution.hippie.lan [172.22.42.240]) by damnhippie.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q0NIOdiv011947; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:24:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) From: Ian Lepore To: Garrett Cooper In-Reply-To: References: <009501ccd9f9$cad088d0$60719a70$@fisglobal.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:24:39 -0700 Message-Id: <1327343079.69022.87.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.0 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Devin Teske Subject: Re: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:24:43 -0000 On Mon, 2012-01-23 at 10:15 -0800, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Devin Teske wrote: > > I have a Parallels virtual machine and it runs FreeBSD 4 through 8 just > > swimmingly. > > > > However, in RELENG_9 I notice something different. My once "ad0" is now showing > > up as "ada0". However, something even stranger is that devfs is providing both > > ad0 family devices AND ada0 family devices. > > > > What's worse is that I can't seem to partition the disk with MBR+disklabel > > scheme. > > > > My procedure goes something like this: > > > > 1. Boot from RELENG_9 LiveCD > > 2. Execute: sysctl -n kern.disks > > 3. Notice two items: cd0 ada0 > > 4. Look in /dev > > 5. Notice several items: ad0 ad0p1 ad0p2 ad0p3 ada0 ada0p1 ada0p2 ada0p3 > > 6. Wipe partition table by executing: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/ada0 bs=512k > > count=256 > > 7. Look in /dev > > 8. Notice less items now: ad0 ada0 > > 9. Execute: sysctl -n kern.disks > > 10. Notice nothing changed: cd0 ada0 > > 11. Write out standard "whole disk" MBR "slice" > > 12. Look in /dev > > 13. Notice that nothing changed: ad0 ada0 > > NOTE: Where is ad0s1 or ada0s1? > > 14. Use fdisk to make sure everything was written successfully > > 15. Notice everything looks good (slice 1 is of type FreeBSD, slice 2, 3, and 4 > > are unused) > > 16. Reboot > > 17. Boot back into RELENG_9 LiveCD > > 18. Look in /dev > > 19. Notice that the old devices are back!: ad0 ad0p1 ad0p2 ad0p3 ada0 ada0p1 > > ada0p2 ada0p3 > > 20. Use fstab to look at MBR partition table > > 21. Notice that things look good (with respect to fdisk'ing): slice 1 is > > FreeBSD, 2, 3, and 4 are still unused > > 22. Notice /dev still doesn't have ad0s1 or ada0s1 > > 23. Use gpart to look at ada0 > > 24. Notice "GPT [CORRUPT]" > > > > ... > > > > OK!?!? > > > > ... > > > > Use same exact RELENG_9 LiveCD on either a physical machine or VMware Virtual > > machine. > > > > SUCCESS!! > > > > Go back to Parallels 4 > > > > FAILURE!! > > > > Go back to RELENG_8 LiveCD with Parallels 4 > > > > SUCCESS!! > > > > What's going on here? I think ada(4) is my problem. Can someone please provide > > feedback? Willing to dig further and provide any/all feedback to help fix this > > regression. > > The 'bug' is in gpart/geom and the 'issue' is present in prior > versions of FreeBSD. The backup partition is now more of a thorn in > everyone's side than previous versions. gpart delete'ing all the > partitions, then doing gpart destroy is probably what you want (there > isn't a simple one-liner that would do this). > Thanks, > -Garrett 'gpart destroy -F ' should do it in one step. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 18:33:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 017D21065670 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:33:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-tul01m020-f182.google.com (mail-tul01m020-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE36D8FC14 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:32:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcwo16 with SMTP id wo16so4961662obc.13 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:32:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6Fn7DeTSHzT3lv/Ui/lr0P15z8UVl3VAx0Bp3HEqJEU=; b=oPHIS7xbNuffRxe1TGlTbtq6+wtPw+pUM9CYuzBH/9P83qe7Y1szHSmJ7ki5+rLv71 9j/jqTx8tEhFJkXrJsIbBudspWTtMD7J9CLVJuEO8MNq2hTF8L2Z1vtA4d4I2ccyUm5h JkykDpRoa0kAmAceFVGbVOEo/7VSLclAXB37I= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.232.36 with SMTP id tl4mr8803503obc.58.1327343579248; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:32:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.46.163 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:32:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1327343079.69022.87.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> References: <009501ccd9f9$cad088d0$60719a70$@fisglobal.com> <1327343079.69022.87.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:32:59 -0800 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Ian Lepore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Devin Teske Subject: Re: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:33:01 -0000 On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Mon, 2012-01-23 at 10:15 -0800, Garrett Cooper wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Devin Teske wrote: >> > I have a Parallels virtual machine and it runs FreeBSD 4 through 8 jus= t >> > swimmingly. >> > >> > However, in RELENG_9 I notice something different. My once "ad0" is no= w showing >> > up as "ada0". However, something even stranger is that devfs is provid= ing both >> > ad0 family devices AND ada0 family devices. >> > >> > What's worse is that I can't seem to partition the disk with MBR+diskl= abel >> > scheme. >> > >> > My procedure goes something like this: >> > >> > 1. Boot from RELENG_9 LiveCD >> > 2. Execute: sysctl -n kern.disks >> > 3. Notice two items: cd0 ada0 >> > 4. Look in /dev >> > 5. Notice several items: ad0 ad0p1 ad0p2 ad0p3 ada0 ada0p1 ada0p2 ada0= p3 >> > 6. Wipe partition table by executing: dd if=3D/dev/zero of=3D/dev/ada0= bs=3D512k >> > count=3D256 >> > 7. Look in /dev >> > 8. Notice less items now: ad0 ada0 >> > 9. Execute: sysctl -n kern.disks >> > 10. Notice nothing changed: cd0 ada0 >> > 11. Write out standard "whole disk" MBR "slice" >> > 12. Look in /dev >> > 13. Notice that nothing changed: ad0 ada0 >> > NOTE: Where is ad0s1 or ada0s1? >> > 14. Use fdisk to make sure everything was written successfully >> > 15. Notice everything looks good (slice 1 is of type FreeBSD, slice 2,= 3, and 4 >> > are unused) >> > 16. Reboot >> > 17. Boot back into RELENG_9 LiveCD >> > 18. Look in /dev >> > 19. Notice that the old devices are back!: ad0 ad0p1 ad0p2 ad0p3 ada0 = ada0p1 >> > ada0p2 ada0p3 >> > 20. Use fstab to look at MBR partition table >> > 21. Notice that things look good (with respect to fdisk'ing): slice 1 = is >> > FreeBSD, 2, 3, and 4 are still unused >> > 22. Notice /dev still doesn't have ad0s1 or ada0s1 >> > 23. Use gpart to look at ada0 >> > 24. Notice "GPT [CORRUPT]" >> > >> > ... >> > >> > OK!?!? >> > >> > ... >> > >> > Use same exact RELENG_9 LiveCD on either a physical machine or VMware = Virtual >> > machine. >> > >> > SUCCESS!! >> > >> > Go back to Parallels 4 >> > >> > FAILURE!! >> > >> > Go back to RELENG_8 LiveCD with Parallels 4 >> > >> > SUCCESS!! >> > >> > What's going on here? I think ada(4) is my problem. Can someone please= provide >> > feedback? Willing to dig further and provide any/all feedback to help = fix this >> > regression. >> >> =A0 =A0 The 'bug' is in gpart/geom and the 'issue' is present in prior >> versions of FreeBSD. The backup partition is now more of a thorn in >> everyone's side than previous versions. gpart delete'ing all the >> partitions, then doing gpart destroy is probably what you want (there >> isn't a simple one-liner that would do this). > > 'gpart destroy -F ' should do it in one step. It's better to be methodical and delete all of the partitions and create the table from scratch. I've run into reproducible cases in the past where just doing gpart destroy -F for instance [on 9.0-BETA1+ media] didn't work because geom retasted the partition tables and slices. Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 18:56:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 432D6106566C for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:56:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emaste@freebsd.org) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3F658FC14 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:56:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from labgw2.phaedrus.sandvine.com (192.168.222.22) by WTL-EXCH-1.sandvine.com (192.168.196.31) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.339.1; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:46:08 -0500 Received: by labgw2.phaedrus.sandvine.com (Postfix, from userid 10332) id C691A33C02; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:46:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:46:08 -0500 From: Ed Maste To: Garrett Cooper Message-ID: <20120123184604.GA5939@sandvine.com> References: <009501ccd9f9$cad088d0$60719a70$@fisglobal.com> <1327343079.69022.87.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:56:56 -0000 On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:32:59AM -0800, Garrett Cooper wrote: > It's better to be methodical and delete all of the partitions and > create the table from scratch. I've run into reproducible cases in the > past where just doing gpart destroy -F for instance [on 9.0-BETA1+ > media] didn't work because geom retasted the partition tables and > slices. Do you have the reproduction steps documented somewhere (and if not, can you write them up)? In order to have working automated installs we need to be able to unconditionally reinit a drive w/o having behavoiur depend on what happens to be left behind. -Ed From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 19:27:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF652106566C for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:27:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-tul01m020-f182.google.com (mail-tul01m020-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA52E8FC18 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:27:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcwo16 with SMTP id wo16so5041791obc.13 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:27:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fDg7sGqodWobGac69XmWb8DoSiArrk9JQMjDSV5IkHo=; b=KcmZQXAL/b/2Nd/hOnY9XQjmNGurW/uo5U8Hq+BXUnKVMvSK0NKBfHaEgvMTcsuh51 GVDSNbI+OmyOc4XLANTFeIjudLZ5y0juPnJu/dcijBXRbLiFPXHO1HbpmHrDqaSQraCS 3Id024T9cyjUEzmHHdI0tFD8NBTDRiyON3fbw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.85.103 with SMTP id g7mr9039652obz.38.1327346853006; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:27:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.46.163 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:27:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20120123184604.GA5939@sandvine.com> References: <009501ccd9f9$cad088d0$60719a70$@fisglobal.com> <1327343079.69022.87.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120123184604.GA5939@sandvine.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:27:32 -0800 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Ed Maste Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:27:34 -0000 On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Ed Maste wrote: > On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:32:59AM -0800, Garrett Cooper wrote: > >> =A0 =A0 It's better to be methodical and delete all of the partitions an= d >> create the table from scratch. I've run into reproducible cases in the >> past where just doing gpart destroy -F for instance [on 9.0-BETA1+ >> media] didn't work because geom retasted the partition tables and >> slices. > > Do you have the reproduction steps documented somewhere (and if not, can > you write them up)? =A0In order to have working automated installs we nee= d > to be able to unconditionally reinit a drive w/o having behavoiur depend > on what happens to be left behind. Sadly the script that reliably reproduced the issue was was lost with my previous work root drive. I was using the prescribed directions for creating MBRs per the gpart manpage, so it shouldn't be that hard to reproduce. Things got hairy at the end so I also started mixing fdisk -BIq at the time along with gpart create -S GPT. Bottom line is that I guess I'm on the 'hook' for coming up with the repro case again *sigh*.. Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 22:25:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15225106564A for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:25:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from etnapierala@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f182.google.com (mail-wi0-f182.google.com [209.85.212.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A04358FC1C for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:25:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhn14 with SMTP id hn14so3898935wib.13 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:25:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:date:from:to:subject:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:user-agent; bh=kTkSq6JifGlEPicaq2BJN5gSYgZ8AO9FB0kPolsVBqs=; b=Cbnm0xgWV5d5qXsbL4Z9ted6F6hmw8MsNodYJWR/OrCV2PhH75a5ecb49hQDES5tIY 7HaxZ59AXNDLKXa4b1hvvY6MaWTlcGtfsNWStg0Esmc3vg/xAmozj3QnRPCM2t40qPvF kY4WJdlRzFrVjvyhGqpiiUBmF+cbUjnuwmx6w= Received: by 10.180.107.99 with SMTP id hb3mr16330159wib.0.1327355708621; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:55:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from geosci (45.81.datacomsa.pl. [195.34.81.45]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ex2sm45560828wib.1.2012.01.23.13.55.06 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:55:07 -0800 (PST) Sender: =?UTF-8?Q?Edward_Tomasz_Napiera=C5=82a?= Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:55:03 +0100 From: Edward Tomasz =?utf-8?Q?Napiera=C5=82a?= To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120123215503.GA64787@geosci> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Speeding up the loader(8). X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:25:15 -0000 Some time ago I've spent some time on trying to speed up loading modules by the loader(8). Result can be found at: http://people.freebsd.org/~trasz/fast-loader-3.diff This patch solves three issues: 1. As it is now, the code in biosdisk.c tries very hard to split reasonably sized (up to 64kB, IIRC) requests into smaller ones. 2. The code in biosdisk.c rereads the partition table and probably some filesystem metadata every time a file gets opened, i.e. for every module. These reads bypass the bcache. 3. The code in bcache.c doesn't really implement an LRU - it implements 'least recently added' algorithm, i.e. a kind of queue. Not that it matters much, since it flushes the elements two seconds after caching them anyway. I replaced it with Least Frequently Used. LRU didn't behave well, as it tended to replace metadata with data used only once. In my tests under VMWare Fusion, this cut the modules loading time by half. I don't intend to commit the patch as-is - the first part looks dangerous (the splitting was probably done for a reason), the second is hackish, and the third doesn't improve anything by itself. I'm working on something else at a moment; feel free to pick this up. -- If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my body? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 23 23:53:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F95106566C; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 23:53:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AC778FC0A; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 23:53:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (ltcfislmsgpa04 [127.0.0.1]) by ltcfislmsgpa04.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q0NNPtji019030; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:53:56 -0600 Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.16]) by ltcfislmsgpa04.fnfis.com with ESMTP id 12hgxw83de-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:53:56 -0600 Received: from dtwin (10.14.152.15) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:53:56 -0600 From: Devin Teske To: "'Alexander Motin'" References: <4F1DF28A.5010300@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4F1DF28A.5010300@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:53:58 -0800 Message-ID: <010a01ccda2a$46eb2940$d4c17bc0$@fisglobal.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQEDi7j4doRuD7XgJimkI4RKZXFZHAKDFSNVl5kkWwA= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.15] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7361, 1.0.211, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-01-23_05:2012-01-23, 2012-01-23, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 23:53:57 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Alexander Motin [mailto:mavbsd@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alexander > Motin > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:52 PM > To: Devin Teske > Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 > > On 01/23/12 20:06, Devin Teske wrote: > > I have a Parallels virtual machine and it runs FreeBSD 4 through 8 just > > swimmingly. > > > > However, in RELENG_9 I notice something different. My once "ad0" is now > showing > > up as "ada0". However, something even stranger is that devfs is providing both > > ad0 family devices AND ada0 family devices. > > That is compatibility shims. You can disable them if you want by adding > to /boot/loader.conf line: kern.cam.ada.legacy_aliases=0 > Ah, thanks Alexander! -- Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 24 00:17:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 178AC1065670 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:17:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mavbsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 952618FC12 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:17:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eekb47 with SMTP id b47so1473772eek.13 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:17:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=N9FqnOx5moDzbPBzNGNfzS0SLm3dHyqaXQHXNNO/fYM=; b=Kq8fvHJBxA3KSRuWOJZq3d0yAoRl7euBbuNLptQ7gQI8VSKAXLtEPpuFXb5Ungu1Q7 SGrrAqTZ2AGGGQ5g7cWv1oBSW05F1P5+ad2GRakbKWtob1EeSEJrEw38SA2YA9piqtRB 1i3FMbQ1w9WElD8kwtP6b7x5PadbD7wcu1/0w= Received: by 10.14.51.18 with SMTP id a18mr3708820eec.39.1327362702038; Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:51:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mavbook2.mavhome.dp.ua (pc.mavhome.dp.ua. [212.86.226.226]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n56sm16566038eeh.6.2012.01.23.15.51.40 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:51:41 -0800 (PST) Sender: Alexander Motin Message-ID: <4F1DF28A.5010300@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 01:51:38 +0200 From: Alexander Motin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111227 Thunderbird/9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Devin Teske References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:17:31 -0000 On 01/23/12 20:06, Devin Teske wrote: > I have a Parallels virtual machine and it runs FreeBSD 4 through 8 just > swimmingly. > > However, in RELENG_9 I notice something different. My once "ad0" is now showing > up as "ada0". However, something even stranger is that devfs is providing both > ad0 family devices AND ada0 family devices. That is compatibility shims. You can disable them if you want by adding to /boot/loader.conf line: kern.cam.ada.legacy_aliases=0 -- Alexander Motin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 24 11:24:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A71AA1065677 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:24:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo.poczta.interia.pl (smtpo.poczta.interia.pl [217.74.65.207]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D89FB8FC08 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:24:24 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:24:22 +0100 From: vermaden To: Mark Linimon X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <20120122054903.GB12469@lonesome.com> References: <20120122054903.GB12469@lonesome.com> X-Originating-IP: 194.0.181.128 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1327404262; bh=3NsMnKfjrPoqVSw5Vx72v7MNB9J8Ql0f4sH3d3AtR5k=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:X-Mailer:In-Reply-To:References: X-Originating-IP:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Worv4/5u0dBupqRZY5w4f7AweEtf8lbLT2o617UuQvwMYkfr08gQSWml6DES95x/7 GIY9tVLrXIeAMN0KkZcSq3dgcOQqMRvcsmISMjBAWlLlO62AjcO2Hg1u/9gtb9wxAD qmk0u34k/Pv65KpkR+acKg5SdLIsLFt4SrbqTqZs= Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:24:25 -0000 "Mark Linimon" pisze: > On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 08:07:43AM +0100, vermaden wrote: > > I submit PRs and try to help test them as some developer/committer > > will pick up the PR, submit a patch to test, but it was MANY times > > that the response from developer/committer was way too long that > > I even DID NOT HAVE THE HARDWARE anymore ... >=20 > I don't have a magic wand to solve this problem. I've spent a lot > of time thinking about it and it's just a hard problem to solve in > general. There are several aspects: >=20 > - so many computers are very broken (specifically, horrible BIOS > bugs). >=20 > - most committers only have one or two computers that they work with. >=20 > - most committers have their own tasklist, and "support users" is > something they never have time to get around to. >=20 > "support users" is, in general, something Open Source OSes do not > do very well (at least without a paid support staff, as is the case > in some of the Linux distros.) >=20 > But what's discouraging for the people that try to clean up the stale > PRs is that they get yelled at when they try to do so. Thus, they > tend to get demotivated as well. >=20 > Support/bug triage is hard and unrewarding work. People can tend to > feel that they're being blamed for bugs that they had nothing to do > with creating, and burn out. Hi, I do not have anything against You, or any other commiter/developer, maybe the answer to that PR should be 'I have checked that and that, but I do not have that hardware so no luck ...' It would be also great to have FreeBSD base system tool, that would collect all system data, dmesg, uname, hardware configuration, literally EVERYTHING, that would provide some useful input for a commiter/developer. It would also be good to have some wiki.freebsd.org page that would describe what information is needed to fill a good PR if such tool is not going to 'happen', I could write a simple SH script myself, that would collect dmesg/dmidecode/uname and more output from other commands, but I do not know what knowledge You need, so that simple program to get all that useful data can help a little, at least in theory. > > Here is one of the messages that I sent by then to the mailing lists: > > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-doc/2007-May/012507.html > >=20 > > ... and NOTHING HAPPENED, no one told me what to do next, > > should I sent a SGML version or anything ... or just GTFO. >=20 > I'm sorry that nothing happened, but unfortunately that's common. > Submitters sometimes have to be persistent, and maybe even catch > new committers when they sign up. Our documentation is certainly > in need of updating. I still was (or at least felt) that was a FreeBSD newbie that time, so I did not knew if my 'handbook part' was just rubbish, or stupid, or ... whatever, no one responded, so I assumed that its not needed/useless and moved along. It would be also good to have a wiki.freebsd.org page describing what is needed and in what format a user should send the documentation changes, currently its just wasting developers' time for asking them how to do that and that, what format, where to send it ... > > What I have done about these 'Ports issues'? I contacted these > > ports maintainers and said that both RC script and AIO support for > > samba should be enabled by default by linking to several threads > > at FreeBSD Forums that the problem is known and exists ... and I > > did not get ANY RESPONSE till this very day, not even a GTFO > > (which would probably be better then nothing). >=20 > When you don't get a response from a maintainer, your best bet is to > file a PR against the port. If the maintainer doesn't respond, then > after 2 weeks any FreeBSD ports committer is free to work on the PR > and, if they agree with you, commit it via maintainer-timeout. >=20 > We don't have a way to track emails that various users send to individual > maintainers. With a PR open, we have a way to do that. We also track > maintainer-timeouts, and these can eventually lead to a maintainer reset. I have now filled these PR's here: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3D164431 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3D164432 > > It's not that people does not try to help, a lot tried (and I am still > > trying), but its VERY unpleasant to have awareness, that you dedicated > > your time, tried to help as much as possible, made some steps to achiev= e > > that ... and no one even cares about that. >=20 > I think it's not "don't care", I think it's that "unable to cope with > number of incoming PRs and other requests for changes and support". > As I type this, there are 1122 ports PRs (6272 total PRs). On most > days, around 40 come in. It would take a few dozen more volunteers > to be able to keep up with them all. >=20 > mcl So its time for another article/page on wiki.freebsd.org, how to become a commiter and help to solve PRs', how to add your mirror to FreeBSD project, etc, etc ... Regards and have a nice day, vermaden ... From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 24 18:47:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEA2B106564A for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:47:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from artemb@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gy0-f182.google.com (mail-gy0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1D08FC08 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:47:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbg15 with SMTP id g15so691480ghb.13 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 10:47:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=CWhYNMv17xdyX+SfqN1Ondvm5MtUPqwUS5BIPK+ye8Y=; b=Cdcn/Vg4Zy3f+2d7RYHVp6viU7rHsl4Zw0tciNkWMI9MJqJn85tjk15pl01fVvsS00 sYyiQJcpEs/bcDjss1LkCEs5qmWuox+9I0bY1FLrV44G+Zjfe527F4monJE4FxrhqSpy s7A3W/GOUoe2Z4zKb0nrBaFtAaXnmYjcJP7+c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.5.16 with SMTP id h16mr6071967ani.48.1327429377863; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 10:22:57 -0800 (PST) Sender: artemb@gmail.com Received: by 10.147.47.6 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 10:22:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20120123215503.GA64787@geosci> References: <20120123215503.GA64787@geosci> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 10:22:57 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: jWd53WFoK0S7aqXBxxa3s5MJJ98 Message-ID: From: Artem Belevich To: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Edward_Tomasz_Napiera=B3a?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Speeding up the loader(8). X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:47:56 -0000 2012/1/23 Edward Tomasz Napiera=C5=82a : > Some time ago I've spent some time on trying to speed up loading > modules by the loader(8). =C2=A0Result can be found at: > > http://people.freebsd.org/~trasz/fast-loader-3.diff > > This patch solves three issues: > > 1. As it is now, the code in biosdisk.c tries very hard to split > =C2=A0 reasonably sized (up to 64kB, IIRC) requests into smaller ones. > > 2. The code in biosdisk.c rereads the partition table and probably > =C2=A0 some filesystem metadata every time a file gets opened, i.e. > =C2=A0 for every module. =C2=A0These reads bypass the bcache. > > 3. The code in bcache.c doesn't really implement an LRU - it implements > =C2=A0 'least recently added' algorithm, i.e. a kind of queue. =C2=A0Not = that > =C2=A0 it matters much, since it flushes the elements two seconds after > =C2=A0 caching them anyway. =C2=A0I replaced it with Least Frequently Use= d. > =C2=A0 LRU didn't behave well, as it tended to replace metadata with data > =C2=A0 used only once. 4. it flushes cache on access to a different drive which means that cache does not help on multi-disk ZFS setups. I've posted a patch some time back. See http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-fs/2011-September/012527.html Feel free to combine the changes. --Artem > > In my tests under VMWare Fusion, this cut the modules loading time > by half. =C2=A0I don't intend to commit the patch as-is - the first part > looks dangerous (the splitting was probably done for a reason), > the second is hackish, and the third doesn't improve anything by itself. > I'm working on something else at a moment; feel free to pick this up. > > -- > If you cut off my head, what would I say? =C2=A0Me and my head, or me and= my body? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 24 19:04:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64959106566C for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:04:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lacombar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ww0-f50.google.com (mail-ww0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEF918FC08 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:04:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbdr11 with SMTP id dr11so4707284wgb.31 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:04:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jDcP1RPJUIUhe1ar0Nu73FPKSKntxyA3T8yC36XKUDY=; b=AJzs2FAu3Hu/HAW1nni7H6VYCkBAf+DMCE0YkEcCyGvkk21MfhGTd3aAQIzOS5n2it LiRB9lu6Nnv2kYHEA0vUtRgauc5L+gOwRAx2OEG/zKidKzP5SdxyPjl/U58KSwasbSX6 jgf6WoxzkmCYb6JtT+vMjnF4NbeDTaa+gSFeg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.94.97 with SMTP id db1mr22918983wib.16.1327430162286; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 10:36:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.82.2 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 10:36:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20120122054903.GB12469@lonesome.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:36:02 -0500 Message-ID: From: Arnaud Lacombe To: Mark Linimon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:04:11 -0000 Hi, "Mark Linimon" pisze: > We don't have a way to track emails that various users send to individual > maintainers. =A0With a PR open, we have a way to do that. =A0We also trac= k > maintainer-timeouts, and these can eventually lead to a maintainer reset. > It is less a problem of having the tools than having the will to do everything publicly. From experience, committers loves to do all kind of things privately/secretly. - Arnaud From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 24 19:52:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09D2C106566B for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:52:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C70508FC08 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:52:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iagz16 with SMTP id z16so10160055iag.13 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:52:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mUAMmha2WdqN3OvwW58wPHczhdttCnBMghDx3CEzriw=; b=aFbd4FuPihwh0w0faaVb/+3IeHp3m7is9D1EGCzfCnHK1MnXggjLvWEtODTTqDR+DS sCKUOeCVMNLpANqqhOwKRt9QkUe33zltA8TeYgAxUWWLPVBAFfBw/tJU8UZ99UA54QAG WdZxhTsOmsywPI0gF6ViOjQcZ82asH1m6uyss= Received: by 10.42.145.131 with SMTP id f3mr15538478icv.8.1327434726271; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:52:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: utisoft@gmail.com Received: by 10.231.70.15 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:51:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20120122054903.GB12469@lonesome.com> From: Chris Rees Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:51:35 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9OHErun-4jS4CgdaOnb_efguq0A Message-ID: To: Arnaud Lacombe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Mark Linimon , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:52:07 -0000 On 24 January 2012 18:36, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > Hi, > > "Mark Linimon" pisze: >> We don't have a way to track emails that various users send to individua= l >> maintainers. =A0With a PR open, we have a way to do that. =A0We also tra= ck >> maintainer-timeouts, and these can eventually lead to a maintainer reset= . >> > It is less a problem of having the tools than having the will to do > everything publicly. From experience, committers loves to do all kind > of things privately/secretly. Hm, a bit of a paradox-- I now deny that anything like that happens secretly, then you ask for proof? Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 24 21:10:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B97106564A for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:10:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A14E8FC08 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:10:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id A6F4256173; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:10:11 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:10:11 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Arnaud Lacombe Message-ID: <20120124211011.GA3528@lonesome.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:29:15 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:10:12 -0000 > On 24 January 2012 18:36, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > It is less a problem of having the tools than having the will to do > everything publicly. From experience, committers loves to do all kind > of things privately/secretly. Perhaps it's human nature because of all the increasingly nit-picky, passive- agressive, whiny, sarcastic, and generally asinine postings such as yours. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 24 21:34:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D11B10656DE for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:34:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lacombar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ww0-f50.google.com (mail-ww0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABDF08FC24 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:34:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbdr11 with SMTP id dr11so4857689wgb.31 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:34:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=9dmw5UnX89UPtUtU6Jd2EE0zPGUo0ZsMZIDDMlvvgqY=; b=f9eBWtIU4zvDbELhAuRT6rpd/iFrFfADV2EDvNRBRQUhE1+dL2fZWkZnJl7c1k7bnR 2FyIFoJ6QATHH85V+P4MXn/6vaTWrcOXSFb99XkCOt+9HJfQ6cnCpoAsz4oWpBQCyNpY Vt2PsnpqpYj0ktAQRzlWJdrSuFvJ5f0ogT/b0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.108.232 with SMTP id hn8mr23901450wib.16.1327440840671; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:34:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.82.2 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:34:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20120124211011.GA3528@lonesome.com> References: <20120124211011.GA3528@lonesome.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 16:34:00 -0500 Message-ID: From: Arnaud Lacombe To: Mark Linimon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:34:02 -0000 Hi, On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Mark Linimon wrote: >> On 24 January 2012 18:36, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: >> It is less a problem of having the tools than having the will to do >> everything publicly. From experience, committers loves to do all kind >> of things privately/secretly. > > Perhaps it's human nature because of all the increasingly nit-picky, passive- > agressive, whiny, sarcastic, and generally asinine postings such as yours. > You are indeed right. However, I might just be also interested to review/comment code, discuss regressions, and architecture, for a change ;-) Unfortunately, such threads rarely ever happens. Most of the time, the only food provided is a really indigestible +5000/-3000 patch, where all the thinking, architectural design and code has been done behind closed door of a limited few committers, research lab or company. regards. - Arnaud From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 24 21:23:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FBA4106566B for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:23:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 014648FC1E for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:23:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 8145856173; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:23:47 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:23:47 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: vermaden Message-ID: <20120124212347.GB3528@lonesome.com> References: <20120122054903.GB12469@lonesome.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:58:53 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:23:48 -0000 On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 12:24:22PM +0100, vermaden wrote: > It would also be good to have some wiki.freebsd.org page that > would describe what information is needed to fill a good PR See: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/ . Your suggestion to include things like dmidecode is a good one, and we should add those. > I still was (or at least felt) that was a FreeBSD newbie that time, > so I did not knew if my 'handbook part' was just rubbish, or stupid, > or ... whatever, no one responded, so I assumed that its not > needed/useless and moved along. I'm hoping that the forums are a better place for new users to ask questions these days, than the high-volume mailing lists. In theory it should be a more appropriate venue. (Having said that, I don't participate in the forums due to lack of time, but I understand there is a community of moderators and seasoned users on it.) > It would be also good to have a wiki.freebsd.org page describing > what is needed and in what format a user should send the > documentation changes Perhaps there should be a docs analogue to the following: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributing-ports/ doc folks, any takers? > I have now filled these PR's here: > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=164431 > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=164432 Thanks. This makes these issues visible. > So its time for another article/page on wiki.freebsd.org, how to become > a committer and help to solve PRs' See: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributing/ http://wiki.freebsd.org/BecomingACommitter > how to add your mirror to FreeBSD project See: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/hubs/index.html So, let me add in conclusion, I'm willing to give a hearing to constructive criticism such as this posting. There are some good, concrete, suggestions here. If I've given the impression in my earlier response that I'm not, I'm sorry. OTOH I see a lot of non-constructive criticism go by and you'll have to excuse me for being rude to those posters. After the Nth posting like that it's simply too much for my patience. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 24 22:10:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C43106564A for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 22:10:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-pw0-f68.google.com (mail-pw0-f68.google.com [209.85.160.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4404D8FC19 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 22:10:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbdy10 with SMTP id y10so378391pbd.7 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:10:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.74.138 with SMTP id t10mr17325649pbv.126.1327443023818; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:10:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mikmeyer-vm-fedora (dhcp-173-37-11-196.cisco.com. [173.37.11.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i1sm1034574pbt.19.2012.01.24.14.10.23 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:10:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:10:20 -0800 From: Mike Meyer To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120124141020.57c9f479@mikmeyer-vm-fedora> In-Reply-To: <20120124212347.GB3528@lonesome.com> References: <20120122054903.GB12469@lonesome.com> <20120124212347.GB3528@lonesome.com> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.10 (GTK+ 2.24.7; i386-redhat-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmcKecOWg9ZJ1on6BkIxAfI6+jJvCBqr/KEsegQhDHPuAzl6mNWg7wNln6sce++vvxjsQes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 22:10:24 -0000 On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:23:47 -0600 Mark Linimon wrote: > On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 12:24:22PM +0100, vermaden wrote: > > It would be also good to have a wiki.freebsd.org page describing > > what is needed and in what format a user should send the > > documentation changes > > Perhaps there should be a docs analogue to the following: > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributing-ports/ > > doc folks, any takers? You mean something like: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/fdp-primer/ Making it a bit easier to find would probably be a good idea. Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BEE81065672 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:05:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo.poczta.interia.pl (smtpo.poczta.interia.pl [217.74.65.207]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B52908FC19 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:05:56 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:05:55 +0100 From: vermaden To: Mark Linimon X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <20120124212347.GB3528@lonesome.com> References: <20120122054903.GB12469@lonesome.com> <20120124212347.GB3528@lonesome.com> X-Originating-IP: 85.89.187.172 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1327446355; bh=yT0gWVEZ3k/2HY6sXGOCSOMe+6+vui+Fi02vEruBMHA=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:X-Mailer:In-Reply-To:References: X-Originating-IP:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=t4NK29+LG6QDNvPI2X+io9vAFW5OdQfRHb1UEgR8+4hSghE5OCq/yC+xHZLwjaqpf c1/c4cDth5OkyZTPxgMOrCeOo+ERuW/+VzsuF0s7hcXXC7dGHASMjPjbBVj0o4V9pj QBx4OHl9yYfgfxRThtr7DkkMdl7Qz7bbqlkfz3O8= Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:05:57 -0000 > > It would also be good to have some wiki.freebsd.org page that > > would describe what information is needed to fill a good PR >=20 > See: >=20 > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/ Thanks, I will read it. > > I have now filled these PR's here: > >=20 > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3D164431 > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3D164432 >=20 > Thanks. This makes these issues visible. One of them is already closed ... with ZERO changes, the reason from the person that closed it: "This is intended, as vsftpd is started by inetd" ... great, but not ALL FreeBSD users want to use inetd, why force them to compile it, is that one file that big or painful that it can not be added to the port? > > So its time for another article/page on wiki.freebsd.org, how to become > > a committer and help to solve PRs' >=20 > See: >=20 > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributing/ > http://wiki.freebsd.org/BecomingACommitter Thanks I did not knew them, seems that there are a lot of useful materials/articles that are mostly known by developers/commiters and not 'casual' users, maybe a 'The Wall' page on freebsd.org with all these useful articles/pages? Kind regards, vermaden ... From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 24 23:35:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCDB01065672 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:35:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-pw0-f68.google.com (mail-pw0-f68.google.com [209.85.160.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B810A8FC0C for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:35:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbdy10 with SMTP id y10so396320pbd.7 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:35:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.75.11 with SMTP id y11mr35044996pbv.51.1327448141580; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:35:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mikmeyer-vm-fedora (dhcp-173-37-11-196.cisco.com. [173.37.11.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 1sm1530053pbn.16.2012.01.24.15.35.40 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:35:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:35:38 -0800 From: Mike Meyer To: vermaden Message-ID: <20120124153538.60bc7707@mikmeyer-vm-fedora> In-Reply-To: References: <20120122054903.GB12469@lonesome.com> <20120124212347.GB3528@lonesome.com> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.10 (GTK+ 2.24.7; i386-redhat-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Mark Linimon , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:35:43 -0000 On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:05:55 +0100 vermaden wrote: > > > I have now filled these PR's here: > > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=164432 > > Thanks. This makes these issues visible. > One of them is already closed ... with ZERO changes, > the reason from the person that closed it: > "This is intended, as vsftpd is started by inetd" > ... great, but not ALL FreeBSD users want to use inetd, > why force them to compile it, is that one file that big > or painful that it can not be added to the port? I don't know why the PR was closed this way, but given that the bug report is simply a statement of a fact, without saying why you consider this fact to be a bug, or any other justification for wanting the change, closing it as "works as intended" seems like a perfectly reasonable response. If you had explained *why* you wanted that changed, and provide some justification for doing so (i.e. - point out that no inetd compliant program, so the default config of the port won't run on the default config of FreeBSD), you might have gotten a different response. Of course, that kind of discussion isn't really appropriate for a PR, since it's really a feature request. As such it deserves a bit of work finding out why it's that way to begin with. All of is covered in the problem-reports document already mentioned in this thread: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/ Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 684BC106566B for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 06:37:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo.poczta.interia.pl (smtpo.poczta.interia.pl [217.74.65.207]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 192788FC0A for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 06:37:10 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 07:37:09 +0100 From: vermaden To: Mike Meyer X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <20120124153538.60bc7707@mikmeyer-vm-fedora> References: <20120122054903.GB12469@lonesome.com> <20120124212347.GB3528@lonesome.com> <20120124153538.60bc7707@mikmeyer-vm-fedora> X-Originating-IP: 85.89.167.26 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1327473429; bh=FgG4gBfkrXeEujslutwGgrmWPnq4M9mcLcE/yF+xf08=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:X-Mailer:In-Reply-To:References: X-Originating-IP:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=icbmIBQ03NoEsNpM2dgBA2ATnHMQWiKbcQAYtbld80FnT5YEahnIHueSOwWr6HrrC 7KtNiQJuVICYC4465Sz5BDbxvFAKdQ9PDSdRTG4HR+DuMpvVGvNoI9GHlu8UzlZfzF 1jnz/WmSivNq7WL+CU9iSqbcQewOnGY8ezYmp2Y8= Cc: Mark Linimon , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 06:37:10 -0000 "Mike Meyer" pisze: > On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:05:55 +0100 > vermaden wrote: > > > > I have now filled these PR's here: > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3D164432 > > > Thanks. This makes these issues visible. > > One of them is already closed ... with ZERO changes, > > the reason from the person that closed it: > > "This is intended, as vsftpd is started by inetd" > > ... great, but not ALL FreeBSD users want to use inetd, > > why force them to compile it, is that one file that big > > or painful that it can not be added to the port? >=20 > I don't know why the PR was closed this way, but given that the bug > report is simply a statement of a fact, without saying why you > consider this fact to be a bug, or any other justification for wanting > the change, closing it as "works as intended" seems like a perfectly > reasonable response. >=20 > If you had explained *why* you wanted that changed, and provide some > justification for doing so (i.e. - point out that no inetd compliant > program, so the default config of the port won't run on the default > config of FreeBSD), you might have gotten a different response. >=20 > Of course, that kind of discussion isn't really appropriate for a PR, > since it's really a feature request. As such it deserves a bit of work > finding out why it's that way to begin with. All of is covered in the > problem-reports document already mentioned in this thread: >=20 > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/ I have sent this in reply to that cosed PR: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ... and if someone DOES NOT WANT to run it by INETD? Why force people to (definitely needless) compile process while this little option/small fail can make like so much easier for everyone that do not use inetd? There are multiple threads at FreeBSD Forums that this script is missing from the package. Also I do not no ANY OTHER package for daemon that has RC_NG script as an option, all of them provide RC_NG script by default, so that is what a user/admin is expecting. Adding this file does not break INETD functionality and only adds a sollution to start it by RC_NG script. Its just one harmless file, why is it such a big problem? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Regards, vermaden ... From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 25 07:14:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF9C10657B1 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 07:14:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Received: from gw.catspoiler.org (gw.catspoiler.org [75.1.14.242]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984C08FC17 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 07:14:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from FreeBSD.org (mousie.catspoiler.org [192.168.101.2]) by gw.catspoiler.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id q0P7EXth060018; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:14:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Message-Id: <201201250714.q0P7EXth060018@gw.catspoiler.org> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:14:33 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis To: atom@smasher.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 07:14:41 -0000 On 17 Jan, Atom Smasher wrote: > thanks john. > > i've been a long-time (10+ years) freeBSD user (desktops, laptops, > servers, and anywhere else i can run it) and advocate (encouraging others > to at least check it out) and also a long-time satisfied johnco customer. > > my freeBSD days seem to be coming to an end. > > i bought myself a LENOVO T510 when it first came out, around early 2010. > it's got an i5 CPU and Arrandale GPU. it's two years old and on freeBSD i > STILL can't run xorg properly with it. linux has run fine with it since i > opened the box. last i checked, freeBSD will be support this GPU in R9... > or maybe R10...? > > i really like freeBSD's robustness, especially compared to linux, among > other things. i like that freeBSD is genetically a "real" unix... what's > the real difference between BSD and linux? BSD was developed by unix > hackers porting the OS to PC hardware; linux was developed by PC hackers > trying to make their own version of unix. these origins are still very > apparent, if one knows where to look. > > i like that i can set up a freeBSD bare-bones (eg secure) mail-server or > web-server in an afternoon. > > but none of that matters if the damn thing just doesn't work. > > over the last two years, and it pains me to say this, i've been running > linux on that T510. but it gets worse... i've been finding that i'm simply > more productive on that machine, and spending more time in front of it, > and more time getting useful things done. > > i understand that it's ultimately a matter of manpower and resources, and > linux seems to have more momentum and "sex appeal", but i'm finding myself > in a real crisis of faith... the OS that i've been using and loving for > 10+ years seems to be dying, from any real usability perspective. > > and for now, i'm slowly and reluctantly migrating towards linux. My experience has been pretty much the opposite. I've been using FreeBSD since 2.1 both as part of my job and also for personal use. I've been using Linux for work for about the last ten years. I'm currently running FreeBSD 8.2-STABLE for my personal computing needs. My experience is that the base system has been very solid and the only problems that I run into have been with the ports. The last major problem that I had with the base system was USB printer support in 7.x, which was incomplete and flakey and then deteriorated to the point of being unusable. This motivated me to migrate to 8 which has a rewritten USB implementation. At work, our major software vendor only supports their software on Red Hat Enterprise Linux and SUSE Linux Enterprise. Since our budget is tight, we run CentOS, which is essentially a repackaged version of RHEL. We've been running CentOS 4.x, but are switching to CentOS 5.x now that 4.x has been EOLed. My experience with CentOS is that new features and support for recent hardware lags quite a bit. A few years ago I had a motherboard that I liked a lot that ran Fedora just fine, but CentOS lacked support for. It took a very long time before CentOS supported NFS over TCP. This was especially painful because we rely heavily on NFS across a WAN to support access to the same data from diferent sites. In addition our WAN is implemented using IPSEC tunnels, which have a smaller MTU, and Linux doesn't support manually setting the MTU on a per-route basis (and I wasn't able to get PMUTD to work). What I observed was that the NFS packets would first be fragmented to the default 1500 byte MTU and then the firewall would fragment each of those packets into one large packet followed by a tiny one. This, along with the lack of TCP's congestion control, was not beneficial to NFS performance ... Bugs are also slow to get fixed. For a very long time I had problems with gam_server running away. I'd frequently start top and see gam_server pegged at 100% CPU, stealing time from my simulations. If I killed it, it would get respawed, and would then behave itself for a few days before running away again. This bug eventually got fixed, but there's a kwin bug in CentOS 4 that still hasn't been fixed. Every now an then, kwin will stop working and I can no longer move windows around my desktop. I'm pretty sure this is fixed in a newer version of KDE, but RHEL/CentOS tend to stick with one major version of their "ports" forever, so I probably couldn't expect to see this fixed until I upgrade to the next version of CentOS. Things might be different if I was a paying RHEL customer and was able to motivate Red Hat into back porting patches for particular bugs. Another "feature" that I get to enjoy on a daily basis is that the kernel in CentOS 4 does not like my KVM switch. When switching to my CentOS machine, I have about a 50% chance that any mouse movement will cause the cursor to fly all over the screen and spew random mouse clicks all over my desktop. This typically causes a bunch of windows to pop up, and it also usually causes parts of email messages to get pasted into my shell windows. That causes a lot of command not found messages as well as the creation of a bunch of unwanted files because of the > email quote character. I can fix the mouse problem by switching to a text vty and running a script to reset the mouse, but if I try to do this proactively and the mouse isn't in a confused state when I run the script, that also confuses the mouse and the only means of recovery is to unplug the mouse and plug it back in. The same KVM switch works flawlessly with both FreeBSD and older Linux kernels. Supposedly the code that someone inserted into the Linux kernel to detect the problem and automagically reset the mouse got yanked out, with the suggestion to buy better KVM switches. I also run Fedora 14 on one machine at home for MythTV. Hardware support is a lot quicker to show up in Fedora than it is in CentOS, but it still isn't great. A recent example is that I tried to expand my storage this last weekend by adding an external enclosure containing a couple of drives plugged into an ESATA port multiplier backplane. I had to plug a new ESATA HBA into one of the PCI Express slots in the motherboard to drive it. The first HBA I tried uses the Asmedia 1061 controller. It's BIOS was able to communicate with the port multiplier and find both drives, but once the Linux kernel took over, it reset things a bunch of times, complained about not being able to clear an error, and gave up. Just for grins, I plugged this same card into a FreeBSD box running 8.2-STABLE and was able to see both drives. I also happened have another HBA with a Marvell controller. I tried that in the Fedora box, but the drives never showed up. After much head scratching and Googling, I finally figured out that the controller was a Marvell 9128, which didn't get Linux support until the 3.x kernel. Looks like I'll have to upgrade to Fedora 16 for that ... The downside to the faster hardware support in Fedora is the very rapid turnover of its major releases. There are new major releases per year and each release gets EOLed when version N+2 is released, so it's necessary to upgrade major releases way more than I'd like. In addition to new features and new hardware support each major release seems to come with its own set of "surprises" as well. The first one that bit me with the upgrade to Fedora 14 was the overly agressive nouveau driver, which didn't like my Nvidia graphics card and resulted in a black screen once it grabbed the card. Even putting rdblacklist=nouveau on the kernel boot line didn't help. I was finally able to get things installed in text mode, but for normal operation I always had to rebuild initramfs without this driver by messing around with dracut. Definitely not user friendly. This finally seems to have gotten fixed (rdblacklist getting obeyed?) with the last kernel update since I didn't have to mess with dracut. I also had a lot of initial stability issues with Fedora 14 and after much time digging with Google and much experimentation (much of which didn't help or made things worse) I finally got things working with the nohz=off highres=off boot options. Definitely not user friendly ... When I get around to moving my MythTV frontend and backend to separate machines, I'm actually thinking of switching the backend to FreeBSD so that I can take advantage of the native ZFS support. So how do I achieve your level of Linux computing nirvana? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 25 08:58:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D9E7106566B for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 08:58:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lacombar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ww0-f50.google.com (mail-ww0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC918FC26 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 08:58:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbdr11 with SMTP id dr11so5275277wgb.31 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:58:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=I4PUWtIqvxgvU3yPtyUo4N9T83pqVoZ9JRcbnlHWn6I=; b=sFZkXB1bqCaTyJVk/46WmsRhB7gUjRYMYN085gWVv0K+23kRVdzoTXfyh57uUGo13d x4a5y8vIqzZDQE69pkIciulLIlLUcqqjaa2kLdr0CP7r6RDLlvzghfSOZcxcu1vE7BEj +FEaGooVXbq700dZoUJxwHyNbwPJrfocyHIAY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.80.8 with SMTP id n8mr12937358wix.14.1327481921085; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:58:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.82.2 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:58:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20120125072809.GA11115@lonesome.com> References: <20120125072809.GA11115@lonesome.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 03:58:41 -0500 Message-ID: From: Arnaud Lacombe To: Mark Linimon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 08:58:42 -0000 Hi, On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 2:28 AM, Mark Linimon wrote: >> I might just be also interested to review/comment code, discuss >> regressions, and architecture, for a change ;-) >> Unfortunately, such threads rarely ever happen. Most of the time, the >> only food provided is a really indigestible +5000/-3000 patch, where >> all the thinking, architectural design and code has been done behind >> closed door of a limited few committers, research lab or company. > > That's odd. =A0What the src committers usually tell me, when I have my > bugmeister-advocate hat on, is that they post patches and then no one > comments until after they check them in, at which time they complain. > This discourages them from going through this the next time. > exactly my point, huge patches are impossible to review. > You will also note that some of the large commits say "MFp4" or "MF: > ". =A0That means that either our Perforce repository, or > SVN project/ directory, were used as staging areas. =A0It's possible to > subscribe to these email messages. =A0(Exactly how is left as an exercise > for the reader; the hour is getting late.) > that is indeed a good source for having a look at early-alpha-WIP stuff. > As for the research lab/company commits, I'm sure you'd complain equally > if the code that these groups develop in-house and then release when it's > in some kind of stable state, instead didn't get released at all. > I see company contributed code as ad-hoc solution to the company's problem, not general solution for the whole FreeBSD userbase. To make a comparison with Linux, it is just as if Google got all the Android code merged in mainline as-is, without re-working anything. It did not happen that way. Much of their code had (and still has) to be re-designed, abstracted, and adapted to fit the general-purpose mainline. > But, of course, I'm wasting my time trying to give you reasoned arguments > about why FreeBSD does one thing or another. =A0AFAICT you're only intere= sted > in spreading FUD about what we do, how we do it, and what we say about it > before, during, and afterwards. is this FUD: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3Dkern/160992 ? is this FUD: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3Dkern/156540 ? is this FUD: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3Dkern/156799 ? is this FUD: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2011-Septem= ber/027400.html ? is this FUD: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2011-Decemb= er/030076.html ? answer to all the above: no, this is bugs, regressions, and mis-design you folks introduced, not me. Don't blame me to point it out. > You seem to be obsessed by picking over > semantics and finding shortcomings to be aggreived over. > Semantics and proper, independent, API are crucial. There is tons of ad-hoc code in FreeBSD which should be properly generalized. The most silly example I can think about is `time_after()', defined in . This has _nothing_ to do specifically with IEEE802.11, it's about time manipulation. Feel free to search the tree, there is tons of potentially unsafe, open-coded version of this macros. Call it nit-picking if you want, but when I write code, I want an API to use, I'm fed up to always have to re-invent the wheel. Btw, I do not even speak about some functions in the kernel re-implementing the exact same logic +10 times in a row, one after the other, within the same function body... For the story, I've been hacking tonight in Linux... a pure pleasure, real tough to get to, but really enjoyable. > Whatever patches or review you've contributed to date, to my mind, are > like the last tiny little bits of onion that are left over after one peel= s > off all the outer layers. =A0There may be something to it, but the effort > to get down to that point is so painful that it's not worth it. > > tl;dr: your drama outweighs your contributions. > I already commented on this. I'm no longer interested in getting my stuff integrated in FreeBSD. I put it on github, eventually send patches on MLs, then you do what you want with it, I no longer particularly care. I know some patches are used around, that's enough. I did my time fighting committers to fix their not-so-bugfree code and won those battles, that's enough for me. - Arnaud ps: I have a particular appreciation for this PR, a feature praised by users, and no committer dares to care: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3Dkern/161553 ... silly. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 25 09:08:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E41106564A for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:08:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from davide.italiano@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vw0-f54.google.com (mail-vw0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2C378FC0A for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:08:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vbbfa15 with SMTP id fa15so1957992vbb.13 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 01:08:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fTa/ucygukVGY5ZrnQjrNuxFL/JnqTkdt4iIY+ht5Ik=; b=h0+aDBfyjHNRuGnC6IcmTjW6zb+uXVpQ07dbbCMNBgtCh8o8p9welx6ld88BUzWwJO woSKinQxtNE4ld+bNrbrPhNac1SLA1jmCovGZIr9L9bAHTmLW5jkW4ocutPS3q4wys5q CErwT00oh4xidlhjj5GpVt7VQjJhzIReF5/tg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.33.68 with SMTP id p4mr8351330vdi.52.1327482523006; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 01:08:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.181.199 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 01:08:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20120125072809.GA11115@lonesome.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:08:42 +0100 Message-ID: From: Davide Italiano To: Arnaud Lacombe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Mark Linimon , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:08:44 -0000 On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 2:28 AM, Mark Linimon wrot= e: >>> I might just be also interested to review/comment code, discuss >>> regressions, and architecture, for a change ;-) >>> Unfortunately, such threads rarely ever happen. Most of the time, the >>> only food provided is a really indigestible +5000/-3000 patch, where >>> all the thinking, architectural design and code has been done behind >>> closed door of a limited few committers, research lab or company. >> >> That's odd. =A0What the src committers usually tell me, when I have my >> bugmeister-advocate hat on, is that they post patches and then no one >> comments until after they check them in, at which time they complain. >> This discourages them from going through this the next time. >> > exactly my point, huge patches are impossible to review. > >> You will also note that some of the large commits say "MFp4" or "MF: >> ". =A0That means that either our Perforce repository, or >> SVN project/ directory, were used as staging areas. =A0It's possible to >> subscribe to these email messages. =A0(Exactly how is left as an exercis= e >> for the reader; the hour is getting late.) >> > that is indeed a good source for having a look at early-alpha-WIP stuff. > >> As for the research lab/company commits, I'm sure you'd complain equally >> if the code that these groups develop in-house and then release when it'= s >> in some kind of stable state, instead didn't get released at all. >> > I see company contributed code as ad-hoc solution to the company's > problem, not general solution for the whole FreeBSD userbase. To make > a comparison with Linux, it is just as if Google got all the Android > code merged in mainline as-is, without re-working anything. It did not > happen that way. Much of their code had (and still has) to be > re-designed, abstracted, and adapted to fit the general-purpose > mainline. > >> But, of course, I'm wasting my time trying to give you reasoned argument= s >> about why FreeBSD does one thing or another. =A0AFAICT you're only inter= ested >> in spreading FUD about what we do, how we do it, and what we say about i= t >> before, during, and afterwards. > > is this FUD: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3Dkern/160992 ? > is this FUD: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3Dkern/156540 ? > is this FUD: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3Dkern/156799 ? > is this FUD: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2011-Sept= ember/027400.html > ? > is this FUD: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2011-Dece= mber/030076.html > ? > > answer to all the above: no, this is bugs, regressions, and mis-design > you folks introduced, not me. Don't blame me to point it out. > >> You seem to be obsessed by picking over >> semantics and finding shortcomings to be aggreived over. >> > Semantics and proper, independent, API are crucial. > > There is tons of ad-hoc code in FreeBSD which should be properly > generalized. The most silly example I can think about is > `time_after()', defined in . This has > _nothing_ to do specifically with IEEE802.11, it's about time > manipulation. Feel free to search the tree, there is tons of > potentially unsafe, open-coded version of this macros. Call it > nit-picking if you want, but when I write code, I want an API to use, > I'm fed up to always have to re-invent the wheel. > > Btw, I do not even speak about some functions in the kernel > re-implementing the exact same logic +10 times in a row, one after the > other, within the same function body... > > For the story, I've been hacking tonight in Linux... a pure pleasure, > real tough to get to, but really enjoyable. > >> Whatever patches or review you've contributed to date, to my mind, are >> like the last tiny little bits of onion that are left over after one pee= ls >> off all the outer layers. =A0There may be something to it, but the effor= t >> to get down to that point is so painful that it's not worth it. >> >> tl;dr: your drama outweighs your contributions. >> > I already commented on this. I'm no longer interested in getting my > stuff integrated in FreeBSD. I put it on github, eventually send > patches on MLs, then you do what you want with it, I no longer > particularly care. I know some patches are used around, that's enough. > I did my time fighting committers to fix their not-so-bugfree code and > won those battles, that's enough for me. > What I'm completely missing is the reason why you're repeating "this is my last word" or "that's enough for me" or $THATSALLFOLKS_SENTENCE, but you continue adding some Gaussian noise on the MLs w/out a valid reason. If you enjoy other projects, go there. But please, don't piss off. > =A0- Arnaud > > ps: I have a particular appreciation for this PR, a feature praised by > users, and no committer dares to care: > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3Dkern/161553 ... silly. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " Davide From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 25 10:44:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BEAF106566B for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:44:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from etnapierala@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20AD78FC14 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:44:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so5932323wer.13 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 02:44:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:date:from:to:subject:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:user-agent; bh=63VdtmkW4oh5HUo0da0GsQIJJFWUUJmQ0saAAntVb8M=; b=q0+ajP2RPiuoorHMiGyHy0lprfF+oTn/xCwJ7o7wDVOV56A9ogOht/stjmSMQnkBlC 2l1nk581zM2dPc5nopbctRrFRQhiJPTR2IEckMbj1R5qmq7EPwiAWbQRICpgHQmAzh1+ dCDJw6EVu6JAltQR41IA2FZPQMURu72rq35Sg= Received: by 10.216.133.204 with SMTP id q54mr2632918wei.2.1327488268035; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 02:44:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from geosci (45.81.datacomsa.pl. [195.34.81.45]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fr8sm41886wib.10.2012.01.25.02.44.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 25 Jan 2012 02:44:27 -0800 (PST) Sender: =?UTF-8?Q?Edward_Tomasz_Napiera=C5=82a?= Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:44:23 +0100 From: Edward Tomasz =?utf-8?Q?Napiera=C5=82a?= To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120125104423.GA52830@geosci> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: mdconfig(8) argument parsing. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:44:29 -0000 Patch below changes the way mdconfig(8) parses its arguments: it removes the ordering requirement and makes error messages more descriptive; it also makes the code more readable by getting rid of the 'cmdline' variable. Now, the mdconfig(8) syntax is somewhat weird, and I'm not sure I tested all the ways people use it. Thus, testing is welcome. http://people.freebsd.org/~trasz/mdconfig-parsing.diff -- If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my body? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 25 10:52:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12976106568A for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:52:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9109D8FC18 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:52:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkbc12 with SMTP id c12so5695737bkb.13 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 02:52:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.149.220 with SMTP id u28mr6906192bkv.100.1327488724450; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 02:52:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfleuriot-at-hi-media.com ([83.167.62.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a17sm55639bkz.7.2012.01.25.02.52.03 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 25 Jan 2012 02:52:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4F1FDED2.7040003@my.gd> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:52:02 +0100 From: Damien Fleuriot User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111222 Thunderbird/9.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20120125104423.GA52830@geosci> In-Reply-To: <20120125104423.GA52830@geosci> X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmxTTkUBDDUYw8dmkVPbHoQQn7OL4XHqWW75AvT3kJe3/kGUNXgO5DsMg/VVIl+o2zaYtYp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: mdconfig(8) argument parsing. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:52:07 -0000 On 1/25/12 11:44 AM, Edward Tomasz NapieraÅ‚a wrote: > Patch below changes the way mdconfig(8) parses its arguments: > it removes the ordering requirement and makes error messages > more descriptive; it also makes the code more readable by > getting rid of the 'cmdline' variable. > > Now, the mdconfig(8) syntax is somewhat weird, and I'm not sure > I tested all the ways people use it. Thus, testing is welcome. > > http://people.freebsd.org/~trasz/mdconfig-parsing.diff > Against what version is this patched ? We're running 8.2-RELEASE here at work, I've got private boxes with 8.2-STABLE, and 2 test ones with 9.0-RELEASE. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 25 11:42:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104CC106566C for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:42:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from etnapierala@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 929238FC14 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:42:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-we0-f182.google.com with SMTP id g1so5992192wer.13 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 03:42:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding :in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=uj4c2z6pAf09N4yL/d1Hbskt3Mujyg68caHvfBS931o=; b=BXSuaNneHrp2E5DTCVhZGmCzbha00H3lK6u+1Hy5La8bQYE1AmnwnLeDSpyFBXIQk7 +roh/y5BJI3VUu+yF6JeXzyo1+LXtiu/YJxdpTCRtzftI3uSs1RJXymo1baAmNE5c0oi mQOfgb4QQczcRAFa35sB3IO/jpJZFqK8/0Fk4= Received: by 10.216.132.211 with SMTP id o61mr2663673wei.58.1327491776264; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 03:42:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from geosci (45.81.datacomsa.pl. [195.34.81.45]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dr5sm759926wib.0.2012.01.25.03.42.54 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 25 Jan 2012 03:42:55 -0800 (PST) Sender: =?UTF-8?Q?Edward_Tomasz_Napiera=C5=82a?= Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 12:42:51 +0100 From: Edward Tomasz =?utf-8?Q?Napiera=C5=82a?= To: Damien Fleuriot Message-ID: <20120125114251.GA53037@geosci> References: <20120125104423.GA52830@geosci> <4F1FDED2.7040003@my.gd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4F1FDED2.7040003@my.gd> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mdconfig(8) argument parsing. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:42:58 -0000 On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 11:52:02AM +0100, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > On 1/25/12 11:44 AM, Edward Tomasz NapieraÅ‚a wrote: > > Patch below changes the way mdconfig(8) parses its arguments: > > it removes the ordering requirement and makes error messages > > more descriptive; it also makes the code more readable by > > getting rid of the 'cmdline' variable. > > > > Now, the mdconfig(8) syntax is somewhat weird, and I'm not sure > > I tested all the ways people use it. Thus, testing is welcome. > > > > http://people.freebsd.org/~trasz/mdconfig-parsing.diff > > > > Against what version is this patched ? > > We're running 8.2-RELEASE here at work, I've got private boxes with > 8.2-STABLE, and 2 test ones with 9.0-RELEASE. Against 10.0-CURRENT (i.e. HEAD), but it should work on other versions as well. -- If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my body? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 25 12:50:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A67C0106564A; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 12:50:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from tensor.andric.com (cl-327.ede-01.nl.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:7b8:2ff:146::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EDEE8FC1B; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 12:50:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7:0:38da:2091:33eb:b834] (unknown [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7:0:38da:2091:33eb:b834]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tensor.andric.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D839A5C59; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 13:50:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4F1FFAA6.4070305@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 13:50:46 +0100 From: Dimitry Andric Organization: The FreeBSD Project User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:10.0) Gecko/20120106 Thunderbird/10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ed Maste References: <009501ccd9f9$cad088d0$60719a70$@fisglobal.com> <1327343079.69022.87.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120123184604.GA5939@sandvine.com> In-Reply-To: <20120123184604.GA5939@sandvine.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Garrett Cooper , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 12:50:47 -0000 On 2012-01-23 19:46, Ed Maste wrote: ... > Do you have the reproduction steps documented somewhere (and if not, can > you write them up)? In order to have working automated installs we need > to be able to unconditionally reinit a drive w/o having behavoiur depend > on what happens to be left behind. Maybe just zero the first and last N sectors of the drive, where N is 10,000 or greater? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 25 07:28:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C9D5106566B for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 07:28:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AA0B8FC16 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 07:28:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 8B90556172; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 01:28:09 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 01:28:09 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Arnaud Lacombe Message-ID: <20120125072809.GA11115@lonesome.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 13:06:34 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 07:28:10 -0000 > I might just be also interested to review/comment code, discuss > regressions, and architecture, for a change ;-) > Unfortunately, such threads rarely ever happen. Most of the time, the > only food provided is a really indigestible +5000/-3000 patch, where > all the thinking, architectural design and code has been done behind > closed door of a limited few committers, research lab or company. That's odd. What the src committers usually tell me, when I have my bugmeister-advocate hat on, is that they post patches and then no one comments until after they check them in, at which time they complain. This discourages them from going through this the next time. You will also note that some of the large commits say "MFp4" or "MF: ". That means that either our Perforce repository, or SVN project/ directory, were used as staging areas. It's possible to subscribe to these email messages. (Exactly how is left as an exercise for the reader; the hour is getting late.) As for the research lab/company commits, I'm sure you'd complain equally if the code that these groups develop in-house and then release when it's in some kind of stable state, instead didn't get released at all. But, of course, I'm wasting my time trying to give you reasoned arguments about why FreeBSD does one thing or another. AFAICT you're only interested in spreading FUD about what we do, how we do it, and what we say about it before, during, and afterwards. You seem to be obsessed by picking over semantics and finding shortcomings to be aggreived over. Whatever patches or review you've contributed to date, to my mind, are like the last tiny little bits of onion that are left over after one peels off all the outer layers. There may be something to it, but the effort to get down to that point is so painful that it's not worth it. tl;dr: your drama outweighs your contributions. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 25 14:27:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F3CD106566B; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:27:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5092F8FC08; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:27:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (ltcfislmsgpa04 [127.0.0.1]) by ltcfislmsgpa04.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q0PERV1c025612; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 08:27:40 -0600 Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.17]) by ltcfislmsgpa04.fnfis.com with ESMTP id 12jjav0bu9-2 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 25 Jan 2012 08:27:37 -0600 Received: from [10.0.0.105] (10.14.152.28) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 08:26:09 -0600 References: <009501ccd9f9$cad088d0$60719a70$@fisglobal.com> <1327343079.69022.87.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120123184604.GA5939@sandvine.com> <4F1FFAA6.4070305@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4F1FFAA6.4070305@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 8C148) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: <00640278-D152-4203-90AE-F0846AE1F7D3@fisglobal.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (8C148) From: Devin Teske Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 06:25:59 -0800 To: Dimitry Andric X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.28] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7361, 1.0.211, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-01-25_06:2012-01-25, 2012-01-25, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: Garrett Cooper , "" , Ed Maste Subject: + Re: Parallels v4 regression (aka ada(4) oddity) in RELENG_9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:27:41 -0000 On Jan 25, 2012, at 4:50 AM, Dimitry Andric wrote: > On 2012-01-23 19:46, Ed Maste wrote: > ... >> Do you have the reproduction steps documented somewhere (and if not, can >> you write them up)? In order to have working automated installs we need >> to be able to unconditionally reinit a drive w/o having behavoiur depend >> on what happens to be left behind. > > Maybe just zero the first and last N sectors of the drive, where N is > 10,000 or greater? gpart destroy -F adaX Worked. -- Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 25 18:57:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85885106564A for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 18:57:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from info@o-notation.org) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.186]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19B738FC0A for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 18:57:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kant.vitec-loesung.de (p4FE9BC80.dip.t-dialin.net [79.233.188.128]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreu2) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LdZfa-1SHFNe44iA-00ivws; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:45:01 +0100 Received: from [10.0.2.21] (unknown [10.0.2.21]) by kant.vitec-loesung.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 128C92A23E for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:44:09 +0100 (CET) From: Matthias Zitzen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:44:09 +0100 Message-Id: To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:gRBYuC5edgfVYC/vg6FXsTHZOFwdpU752pxMKZQzYqG gdTjo2df0Wp1XjdaFMCRnGoAk/1h9DdVc+CyTelLXQWcsF0Zx3 wsT8Gnvk4uC+Ml4+dlfCguEAvN511qIzZlzIJakzYnWTYZsfGF Xoz3pDvcgnubuHKh+/7mJ1ncUnF9Kn9ilwR+rRTAxM9Hs4LmMK Fx/C4SvBOmkLUtt+WIuTMw/m0c/aka198YV0HzUvXBLOZa0jr5 6OFzM09JGhaKJ3gmoPSQvH64TOzn0QiyGjNn39t7bs07XjQRV0 FH9M/6jRxQQGg19MKf6T16RBiBHB43/fW8EfBglADl5WCsy1Wq SkhaoxSmhkASwxrgRuKPmkV55tMwIMzUGh5Jay4qakSzF8m3Io whV3JeqvGq1DA== Subject: kqueue and note_rename X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 18:57:37 -0000 Hello list, does anybody have an idea, how to obtain the new name of a renamed file = after the note_rename event is fired. I'm not very familiar with = filesystem-operations. I checked the typical functions like stat or = lstat, but these functions are working only with filenames. Matthias From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 25 20:22:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF8C11065670 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 20:22:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C00888FC14 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 20:22:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 1A31056172; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:22:46 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:22:46 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Arnaud Lacombe Message-ID: <20120125202246.GA26447@lonesome.com> References: <20120125072809.GA11115@lonesome.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:38:27 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 20:22:47 -0000 On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 03:58:41AM -0500, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > > You seem to be obsessed by picking over > > semantics and finding shortcomings to be aggreived over. > > > Semantics and proper, independent, API are crucial. I'm talking about the semantics of the non-technical part: the wording of things that people post in email. viz: the time-wasting nonsense about "oh, it seems to be released already, has anyone noticed?" from a few weeks ago. It was 100% FUD, which apparently you knew perfectly well at the time, and thus AFAICT only posted it to draw attention to yourself. That's the drama I'm talking about. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 25 22:26:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44ABE106564A for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:26:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lacombar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f182.google.com (mail-wi0-f182.google.com [209.85.212.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBFD08FC13 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:26:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhn14 with SMTP id hn14so6598333wib.13 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:26:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=EtJGTbhETn8faF7UTrssI78XT/By+xhVZ3OA/djsMkE=; b=EX/brXHPBtafSG9Bz3suYXSmbWYeaeiwAbTKmyBazyt+Abfx5eBOq7xL58Zzuc3dSH 9eQ9Oyoe3ZAxK9pvE1/3ih34pExQadrJgYsckZ3nxj7jBm+iK4eu0Ywv+0xE8NbGCrnC tkTQkA6FT/3qhi4B05SlSysnaM4qZQUSeOqpM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.103.97 with SMTP id fv1mr31554840wib.17.1327530383715; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:26:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.82.2 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:26:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20120125202246.GA26447@lonesome.com> References: <20120125072809.GA11115@lonesome.com> <20120125202246.GA26447@lonesome.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 17:26:23 -0500 Message-ID: From: Arnaud Lacombe To: Mark Linimon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:26:25 -0000 Hi, On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 03:58:41AM -0500, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: >> > You seem to be obsessed by picking over >> > semantics and finding shortcomings to be aggreived over. >> > >> Semantics and proper, independent, API are crucial. > > I'm talking about the semantics of the non-technical part: the wording > of things that people post in email. =A0viz: the time-wasting nonsense > about "oh, it seems to be released already, has anyone noticed?" from > a few weeks ago. > > It was 100% FUD, which apparently you knew perfectly well at the time, > and thus AFAICT only posted it to draw attention to yourself. > > That's the drama I'm talking about. > you are misquoting and misinterpreting me, I merely asked "Has 9.0 been released ?", followed by misleading clues I tried to gather in a thread where the original poster's uname shown "9-RELEASE". I see no FUD in this and none was intended. The rest of the thread indeed went ballistic. - Arnaud From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 25 22:50:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45857106566C for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:50:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13C898FC15 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:50:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from julian-mac.elischer.org (c-67-180-24-15.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.180.24.15]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q0PMof11073452 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:50:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <4F208787.7050605@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:51:51 -0800 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10.4; en-US; rv:1.9.2.25) Gecko/20111213 Thunderbird/3.1.17 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthias Zitzen References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kqueue and note_rename X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:50:45 -0000 On 1/25/12 10:44 AM, Matthias Zitzen wrote: > Hello list, > does anybody have an idea, how to obtain the new name of a renamed file after the note_rename event is fired. I'm not very familiar with filesystem-operations. I checked the typical functions like stat or lstat, but these functions are working only with filenames. there is no real way. the new link to the inode could come from any point in the filesystem so the only way to find it would be an exhaustive search. the only information that you could return that might make any sense would be the inode number of the new parent. That would allow you to follow the '..' links and do 'pwd' in effect. I have not checked to see if that information is returned. If it isn't it might be a really nice enhancement to see if it could be added. > > Matthias > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 25 22:54:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70E5E106564A for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:54:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jilles@stack.nl) Received: from mx1.stack.nl (relay02.stack.nl [IPv6:2001:610:1108:5010::104]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93F938FC0A for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:54:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from snail.stack.nl (snail.stack.nl [IPv6:2001:610:1108:5010::131]) by mx1.stack.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E65B359B5B for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 23:54:46 +0100 (CET) Received: by snail.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 1677) id 6B7F028468; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 23:54:46 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 23:54:46 +0100 From: Jilles Tjoelker To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120125225446.GA64833@stack.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: sh(1) vfork patch, with benchmarks X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:54:49 -0000 Here is a new version of the vfork patch. The concept is the same, trying to use vfork in simple common cases. Compared to http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2011-June/035618.html I have extended vfork use to some command substitutions and allowed setting an environment variable SH_DISABLE_VFORK to disable all vfork use. The test machine is a 4-core Phenom II X4 in 32-bit mode with 4GB RAM, stable/8 with newer sh. I have run tests with a dummy environment variable SH_DISABLE_VFORL=1 (y) and with SH_DISABLE_VFORK=1 (n). A microbenchmark sh -c 'x=0; while [ $x -lt 10000 ]; do /bin/kill -0 $$; x=$(($x + 1)); done' is much faster: x micro-vfork-timings1-n + micro-vfork-timings1-y +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | + | | + x | | + ++ x xx | |++ ++ xx xx x| | |_A| |___AM_| | +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ N Min Max Median Avg Stddev x 9 3.86 4.05 4 3.9633333 0.076648549 + 9 2.52 2.6 2.58 2.5722222 0.033082389 Difference at 95.0% confidence -1.39111 +/- 0.0589948 -35.0995% +/- 1.48851% (Student's t, pooled s = 0.0590315) A make -j4 buildkernel is about 0.5% faster: x buildkernel-vfork-timings-n + buildkernel-vfork-timings-y +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | + x + | |+ + + * + + +x*+xx+ x xx x + x x x *+ * x + x| | |__________________|M_A____________MA________|_______| | +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ N Min Max Median Avg Stddev x 17 435.3 443.65 438.8 439.03588 2.378805 + 17 432.8 442.86 436.76 437.06412 3.20108 Difference at 95.0% confidence -1.97176 +/- 1.97034 -0.449112% +/- 0.448789% (Student's t, pooled s = 2.82007) In both cases, the difference comes mainly from the system time, but the user time is also a bit lower (statistically significant). In a virtual machine with 10-current (default kernel config + capsicum and procdesc) and the patch, the microbenchmark is similarly much faster: x micro-vfork-timings-n + micro-vfork-timings-y +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |+ + | |+++ x | |++++ xx x | |++++ xxxxxx | |+++++ x xxxxxxx| ||_A| |_A_| | +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ N Min Max Median Avg Stddev x 18 15.14 15.85 15.57 15.555 0.17088868 + 18 9.79 10.14 9.92 9.9127778 0.096820365 Difference at 95.0% confidence -5.64222 +/- 0.0940703 -36.2727% +/- 0.604759% (Student's t, pooled s = 0.138883) Ian Lepore has been kind enough to try an earlier version of this patch on some sort of ARM board and reports an improvement in boot time from 54 to 51 seconds, and a large difference in microbenchmarks. commit f55a350fa9c3792e10f93160a93d016a7bfdd630 Author: Jilles Tjoelker Date: Mon May 30 00:31:45 2011 +0200 sh: Use vfork in a few common cases. This uses vfork() for simple commands and command substitutions containing a single simple command, invoking an external program under certain conditions (no redirections or variable assignments, non-interactive shell, no job control). The use of vfork() can be disabled by setting a variable named SH_DISABLE_VFORK. diff --git a/bin/sh/eval.c b/bin/sh/eval.c index a5f0aff..2d90921 100644 --- a/bin/sh/eval.c +++ b/bin/sh/eval.c @@ -921,6 +921,15 @@ evalcommand(union node *cmd, int flags, struct backcmd *backcmd) if (pipe(pip) < 0) error("Pipe call failed: %s", strerror(errno)); } + if (cmdentry.cmdtype == CMDNORMAL && + cmd->ncmd.redirect == NULL && + varlist.list == NULL && + (mode == FORK_FG || mode == FORK_NOJOB) && + !disvforkset() && !iflag && !mflag) { + vforkexecshell(jp, argv, environment(), path, + cmdentry.u.index, flags & EV_BACKCMD ? pip : NULL); + goto parent; + } if (forkshell(jp, cmd, mode) != 0) goto parent; /* at end of routine */ if (flags & EV_BACKCMD) { diff --git a/bin/sh/jobs.c b/bin/sh/jobs.c index 75b503e..4405267 100644 --- a/bin/sh/jobs.c +++ b/bin/sh/jobs.c @@ -57,6 +57,7 @@ __FBSDID("$FreeBSD$"); #undef CEOF /* syntax.h redefines this */ #endif #include "redir.h" +#include "exec.h" #include "show.h" #include "main.h" #include "parser.h" @@ -884,6 +885,54 @@ forkshell(struct job *jp, union node *n, int mode) } +pid_t +vforkexecshell(struct job *jp, char **argv, char **envp, const char *path, int idx, int pip[2]) +{ + pid_t pid; + struct jmploc jmploc; + struct jmploc *savehandler; + + TRACE(("vforkexecshell(%%%td, %p, %d) called\n", jp - jobtab, (void *)n, + mode)); + INTOFF; + flushall(); + savehandler = handler; + pid = vfork(); + if (pid == -1) { + TRACE(("Vfork failed, errno=%d\n", errno)); + INTON; + error("Cannot fork: %s", strerror(errno)); + } + if (pid == 0) { + TRACE(("Child shell %d\n", (int)getpid())); + if (setjmp(jmploc.loc)) + _exit(exception == EXEXEC ? exerrno : 2); + if (pip != NULL) { + close(pip[0]); + if (pip[1] != 1) { + dup2(pip[1], 1); + close(pip[1]); + } + } + handler = &jmploc; + shellexec(argv, envp, path, idx); + } + handler = savehandler; + if (jp) { + struct procstat *ps = &jp->ps[jp->nprocs++]; + ps->pid = pid; + ps->status = -1; + ps->cmd = nullstr; + jp->foreground = 1; +#if JOBS + setcurjob(jp); +#endif + } + INTON; + TRACE(("In parent shell: child = %d\n", (int)pid)); + return pid; +} + /* * Wait for job to finish. diff --git a/bin/sh/jobs.h b/bin/sh/jobs.h index 5e9d70d..e741b2c 100644 --- a/bin/sh/jobs.h +++ b/bin/sh/jobs.h @@ -91,6 +91,7 @@ void setjobctl(int); void showjobs(int, int); struct job *makejob(union node *, int); pid_t forkshell(struct job *, union node *, int); +pid_t vforkexecshell(struct job *, char **, char **, const char *, int, int []); int waitforjob(struct job *, int *); int stoppedjobs(void); int backgndpidset(void); diff --git a/bin/sh/var.c b/bin/sh/var.c index b3bc6f7f..bc00e06 100644 --- a/bin/sh/var.c +++ b/bin/sh/var.c @@ -94,6 +94,7 @@ struct var vps2; struct var vps4; struct var vvers; static struct var voptind; +struct var vdisvfork; int forcelocal; @@ -125,6 +126,8 @@ static const struct varinit varinit[] = { #endif { &voptind, 0, "OPTIND=1", getoptsreset }, + { &vdisvfork, VUNSET, "SH_DISABLE_VFORK=", + NULL }, { NULL, 0, NULL, NULL } }; diff --git a/bin/sh/var.h b/bin/sh/var.h index 347c377..6cdfbfe 100644 --- a/bin/sh/var.h +++ b/bin/sh/var.h @@ -79,6 +79,7 @@ extern struct var vppid; extern struct var vps1; extern struct var vps2; extern struct var vps4; +extern struct var vdisvfork; #ifndef NO_HISTORY extern struct var vhistsize; extern struct var vterm; @@ -109,6 +110,7 @@ extern int initial_localeisutf8; #endif #define mpathset() ((vmpath.flags & VUNSET) == 0) +#define disvforkset() ((vdisvfork.flags & VUNSET) == 0) void initvar(void); void setvar(const char *, const char *, int); -- Jilles Tjoelker From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 26 00:05:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3DE7106567B for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 00:05:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jilles@stack.nl) Received: from mx1.stack.nl (relay02.stack.nl [IPv6:2001:610:1108:5010::104]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39C888FC15 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 00:05:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from snail.stack.nl (snail.stack.nl [IPv6:2001:610:1108:5010::131]) by mx1.stack.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CFDA3596FD for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 01:05:28 +0100 (CET) Received: by snail.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 1677) id 3D4D228468; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 01:05:28 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 01:05:28 +0100 From: Jilles Tjoelker To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120126000527.GB64833@stack.nl> References: <20120125225446.GA64833@stack.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120125225446.GA64833@stack.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: sh(1) vfork patch, with benchmarks X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 00:05:29 -0000 On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 11:54:46PM +0100, Jilles Tjoelker wrote: > [snip] > x micro-vfork-timings1-n > + micro-vfork-timings1-y > +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | + | > | + x | > | + ++ x xx | > |++ ++ xx xx x| > | |_A| |___AM_| | > +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > N Min Max Median Avg Stddev > x 9 3.86 4.05 4 3.9633333 0.076648549 > + 9 2.52 2.6 2.58 2.5722222 0.033082389 > Difference at 95.0% confidence > -1.39111 +/- 0.0589948 > -35.0995% +/- 1.48851% > (Student's t, pooled s = 0.0590315) > [snip] I forgot to mention, the numbers are time in seconds (measured with /usr/bin/time). -- Jilles Tjoelker From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 26 11:49:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20DC106566C for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:49:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9069F8FC18 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:49:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (bell.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.40]) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24565C57 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:02:29 +1000 (EST) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.179]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3BBD75C55 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:02:29 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F213CEB.4020207@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:45:47 +1000 From: Da Rock <9Phackers@herveybayaustralia.com.au> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20120119005658.218280@gmx.com> <4F19188A.4090907@herveybayaustralia.com.au> In-Reply-To: <4F19188A.4090907@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:05:28 +0000 Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:49:58 -0000 > On 01/20/12 09:13, John Kozubik wrote: I normally hate to dredge up old threads, but this is like getting halfway through a story and not finding out the ending... :) What is the answer? Is there a solution to this? I have a string of questions on this: 1. Incidentally, what exactly does constitute a major release? 2. Is there a reason to update the numbers so quickly? 3. Could a higher bar be set to reach a major release than simply temporal objectives? One of the differentiating factors between linux and FreeBSD is the simple fact that linux distros tend to run so fast through the numbers- and while just a matter of perspective, it could provide some sense of stability to enterprise users. Weighed against, of course, the ability to upgrade easily. 4. If in the case of the former, could some backporting to the stable and release branches facilitate an easy upgrade to the next major release? 5. Could binaries be the answer to easier upgrades (customised for enterprise users)? I'd really like to know the OP's thoughts on this... Cheers From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 26 16:40:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C05A2106566C; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:40:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90D588FC16; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:40:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigwig.baldwin.cx [96.47.65.170]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 35AB046B06; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:40:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A1F4EB940; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:40:48 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:37:47 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p10; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201201260937.47448.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:40:48 -0500 (EST) Cc: Adrian Chadd , Mark Saad Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:40:49 -0000 On Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:33:40 pm Adrian Chadd wrote: > On 19 January 2012 09:47, Mark Saad wrote: > > > I just want to chime in here, what is the deal with killing off a > > potential 7.5-RELEASE ? Having a few 7.3-RELEASE and 7.4-RELEASE > > servers I would like to see a 7.5-RELEASE that is supported to 2015 > > to prevent another major upgrade cycle . There are still freebsd > > developers working on 7-STABLE and its been reliable and working for > > me and I am sure a few other people. > > > > What could I do to help make 7.5-RELEASE a reality ? > > > > Put your hand up and volunteer to run the 7.5-RELEASE release cycle. That's not actually true or really fair. There has to be some buy-in from the project to do an official release; it is not something that a single person can do off in a corner and then have the Project bless the bits as an official release. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 26 16:40:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AD41106564A; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:40:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C56C8FC19; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:40:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigwig.baldwin.cx [96.47.65.170]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 24B3F46B2D; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:40:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 93A86B95E; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:40:49 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:54:22 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p10; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <20120123215503.GA64787@geosci> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <201201260954.23179.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:40:49 -0500 (EST) Cc: Artem Belevich , Edward, =?utf-8?q?Napiera=C5=82a?= Subject: Re: Speeding up the loader(8). X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:40:50 -0000 On Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:22:57 pm Artem Belevich wrote: > 2012/1/23 Edward Tomasz Napiera=C5=82a : > > Some time ago I've spent some time on trying to speed up loading > > modules by the loader(8). Result can be found at: > > > > http://people.freebsd.org/~trasz/fast-loader-3.diff > > > > This patch solves three issues: > > > > 1. As it is now, the code in biosdisk.c tries very hard to split > > reasonably sized (up to 64kB, IIRC) requests into smaller ones. It is more that the I/O's cannot cross a 64kb boundary. This is due to a=20 limitation in old disk controllers. Newer versions of EDD provide flags that indicate whether a device needs this to be honored or not. You could = use=20 these flags from EDD to determine if the splitting should be used or not wh= ich=20 might help with your case while still being safe for older devices (and for= =20 some more limited devices such as flash). EDD3 can also let you specify th= e=20 raw 64-bit physical address to write the bits into rather than always using= a=20 bounce buffer in the low 1MB. This would also be a good thing to take=20 advantage of. > > 2. The code in biosdisk.c rereads the partition table and probably > > some filesystem metadata every time a file gets opened, i.e. > > for every module. These reads bypass the bcache. > > > > 3. The code in bcache.c doesn't really implement an LRU - it implements > > 'least recently added' algorithm, i.e. a kind of queue. Not that > > it matters much, since it flushes the elements two seconds after > > caching them anyway. I replaced it with Least Frequently Used. > > LRU didn't behave well, as it tended to replace metadata with data > > used only once. These sound reasonable, though I suspect they are in part due to dealing wi= th=20 floppies where the user can swap out of the disk and we have no way of=20 noticing otherwise. However, we could possibly adjust some behavior to cac= he=20 the bits if the disk is not a floppy drive. > 4. it flushes cache on access to a different drive which means that > cache does not help on multi-disk ZFS setups. I believe this is also necessary to deal with floppies and the fact that yo= u=20 don't have a reliable way of knowing if a floppy has changed. =2D-=20 John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 26 16:49:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 405AB106564A for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:49:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark@exonetric.com) Received: from relay0.exonetric.net (relay0.exonetric.net [82.138.248.161]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C36FF8FC15 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:49:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [172.16.0.123] (94-30-105-106.xdsl.murphx.net [94.30.105.106]) by relay0.exonetric.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E8957003; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:49:23 +0000 (GMT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) From: Mark Blackman In-Reply-To: <201201260937.47448.jhb@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:49:22 +0000 Message-Id: <6D5F6ECE-5966-4849-AFDC-7F385E2CE906@exonetric.com> References: <201201260937.47448.jhb@freebsd.org> To: John Baldwin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Mark Saad Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:49:25 -0000 On 26 Jan 2012, at 14:37, John Baldwin wrote: > On Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:33:40 pm Adrian Chadd wrote: >> On 19 January 2012 09:47, Mark Saad wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> What could I do to help make 7.5-RELEASE a reality ? >>>=20 >>=20 >> Put your hand up and volunteer to run the 7.5-RELEASE release cycle. >=20 > That's not actually true or really fair. There has to be some buy-in = from the=20 > project to do an official release; it is not something that a single = person > can do off in a corner and then have the Project bless the bits as an = official=20 > release. And raises the interesting question for an outsider of=20 a) who is "the project" in this case and b) what does it take for a release to be a release? Wasn't there a freebsd-releng (or similar) mailing list ages ago? I didn't spot an active one at http://docs.freebsd.org/mail/ - Mark= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 26 18:22:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE0C106566B; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:22:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from artemb@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C8288FC17; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:22:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenq3 with SMTP id q3so434533yen.13 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:22:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=HvQiEYb5VUbFo8FRd80CI1OmXHIITsiDOenuuffxbYo=; b=N/BxO2LZmqlVXttKx3mu3VBOqe29TP0pLYM653XXbSHm2LPUmHiHyHxCByZstX6Wm8 0w0Yv1GB3QTW7fKHz5P9h2yOBqEDRb0dbu/5yk/2ZTyGhOM8729QmfRrX/p6AFVPtJZV HkuuctPNu+CQTK/ch6nau0yJd/7xrcgG00qMQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.80.71 with SMTP id j47mr5088259yhe.28.1327602122595; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:22:02 -0800 (PST) Sender: artemb@gmail.com Received: by 10.147.47.6 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:22:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201201260954.23179.jhb@freebsd.org> References: <20120123215503.GA64787@geosci> <201201260954.23179.jhb@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:22:02 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Jy7ekaxEtNROqktEsKfoYhP6eOs Message-ID: From: Artem Belevich To: John Baldwin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Edward_Tomasz_Napiera=B3a?= Subject: Re: Speeding up the loader(8). X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:22:03 -0000 On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 6:54 AM, John Baldwin wrote: >> > 3. The code in bcache.c doesn't really implement an LRU - it implement= s >> > =A0 'least recently added' algorithm, i.e. a kind of queue. =A0Not tha= t >> > =A0 it matters much, since it flushes the elements two seconds after >> > =A0 caching them anyway. =A0I replaced it with Least Frequently Used. >> > =A0 LRU didn't behave well, as it tended to replace metadata with data >> > =A0 used only once. > > These sound reasonable, though I suspect they are in part due to dealing = with > floppies where the user can swap out of the disk and we have no way of > noticing otherwise. =A0However, we could possibly adjust some behavior to= cache > the bits if the disk is not a floppy drive. > >> 4. it flushes cache on access to a different drive which means that >> cache does not help on multi-disk ZFS setups. > > I believe this is also necessary to deal with floppies and the fact that = you > don't have a reliable way of knowing if a floppy has changed. Are floppies still relevant? When I attempted to address your concern about floppies that you raised when I've sent my patch, I've discovered that there's no floppy connector on any of the computers/motherboards that I have. Few years back I was amused by an Intel motherboard that came with a floppy disk with RAID drivers on it, but which had no floppy connector on the motherboard. In any case, it's easy enough to enforce old behavior for floppy drives. I will make required changes but I will not be able to test it due to lack of floppy drives. --Artem From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 26 18:31:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 987F51065670; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:31:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D32F8FC18; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:31:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigwig.baldwin.cx [96.47.65.170]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 23A1446B09; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:31:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A586FB940; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:31:27 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Mark Blackman Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:22:29 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p10; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <201201260937.47448.jhb@freebsd.org> <6D5F6ECE-5966-4849-AFDC-7F385E2CE906@exonetric.com> In-Reply-To: <6D5F6ECE-5966-4849-AFDC-7F385E2CE906@exonetric.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201201261322.29688.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:31:27 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Mark Saad Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:31:28 -0000 On Thursday, January 26, 2012 11:49:22 am Mark Blackman wrote: > > On 26 Jan 2012, at 14:37, John Baldwin wrote: > > > On Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:33:40 pm Adrian Chadd wrote: > >> On 19 January 2012 09:47, Mark Saad wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> What could I do to help make 7.5-RELEASE a reality ? > >>> > >> > >> Put your hand up and volunteer to run the 7.5-RELEASE release cycle. > > > > That's not actually true or really fair. There has to be some buy-in from the > > project to do an official release; it is not something that a single person > > can do off in a corner and then have the Project bless the bits as an official > > release. > > And raises the interesting question for an outsider of > > a) who is "the project" in this case > and > b) what does it take for a release to be a release? I'll answer the two together. The project is the entity that "owns" freebsd.org and a release is not a release unless it is present on ftp.freebsd.org and has a signed announcement e-mail with hashes, etc. on the freebsd-announce@ mailing list. Without those things there is no reason for a user to believe that a particular set of bits is a legitimate FreeBSD release. Additionally, a release should be available via the appropriate tags in the CVS and SVN repositories available from freebsd.org machines. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 26 18:43:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B4041065675; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:43:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vx0-f182.google.com (mail-vx0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0C8A8FC20; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:43:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcmm1 with SMTP id m1so1025725vcm.13 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:43:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nJkqwVj7+1sgpZQyses4SZDoU3xIiDVqvjKfT7tR4mA=; b=QX//WvnvBBu4LCQFVy/BJk1D2nXvOmP+6xLNxZqcVU1nlQyIxcaMBJCIzclmzswUPH NAlWWIjj6AyMBcCE+S2GGgvzoo7tLtTOZslxGteDXkJNz7xeGl5P0LbumzIGM5HKhs7w dZ77qUrziYknU/IJiiqaqyMJxTzBl3vyNhDWM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.221.13.196 with SMTP id pn4mr1934526vcb.74.1327603409147; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:43:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.117.11 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:43:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20120123215503.GA64787@geosci> <201201260954.23179.jhb@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:43:29 -0800 Message-ID: From: Freddie Cash To: Artem Belevich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Edward_Tomasz_Napiera=C5=82a?= Subject: Re: Speeding up the loader(8). X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:43:30 -0000 On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 10:22 AM, Artem Belevich wrote: > On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 6:54 AM, John Baldwin wrote: >>> > 3. The code in bcache.c doesn't really implement an LRU - it implemen= ts >>> > =C2=A0 'least recently added' algorithm, i.e. a kind of queue. =C2=A0= Not that >>> > =C2=A0 it matters much, since it flushes the elements two seconds aft= er >>> > =C2=A0 caching them anyway. =C2=A0I replaced it with Least Frequently= Used. >>> > =C2=A0 LRU didn't behave well, as it tended to replace metadata with = data >>> > =C2=A0 used only once. >> >> These sound reasonable, though I suspect they are in part due to dealing= with >> floppies where the user can swap out of the disk and we have no way of >> noticing otherwise. =C2=A0However, we could possibly adjust some behavio= r to cache >> the bits if the disk is not a floppy drive. >> >>> 4. it flushes cache on access to a different drive which means that >>> cache does not help on multi-disk ZFS setups. >> >> I believe this is also necessary to deal with floppies and the fact that= you >> don't have a reliable way of knowing if a floppy has changed. > > Are floppies still relevant? > > When I attempted to address your concern about floppies that you > raised when I've sent my patch, I've discovered that there's no floppy > connector on any of the computers/motherboards that I have. > > Few years back I was amused by an Intel motherboard that came with a > floppy disk with RAID drivers on it, but which had no floppy connector > on the motherboard. > > In any case, it's easy enough to enforce old behavior for floppy > drives. I will make required changes but I will not be able to test it > due to lack of floppy drives. USB-based floppy drives are still common. We use them to upgrade firmware, upgrade BIOS, install drivers, etc on our servers ... none of which have floppy headers on the motherboard. But the BIOSes still support floppies, and floppies are still used a lot (unfortunately). Now, whether or not a floppy-based loader would be useful for FreeBSD ... --=20 Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 26 22:23:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F26A106564A; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:23:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark@exonetric.com) Received: from relay0.exonetric.net (relay0.exonetric.net [82.138.248.161]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D89158FC12; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:23:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.29] (unknown [78.86.207.85]) by relay0.exonetric.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB95C57007; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:23:44 +0000 (GMT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Mark Blackman In-Reply-To: <201201261322.29688.jhb@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:23:43 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <201201260937.47448.jhb@freebsd.org> <6D5F6ECE-5966-4849-AFDC-7F385E2CE906@exonetric.com> <201201261322.29688.jhb@freebsd.org> To: John Baldwin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Mark Saad Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:23:46 -0000 On 26 Jan 2012, at 18:22, John Baldwin wrote: > On Thursday, January 26, 2012 11:49:22 am Mark Blackman wrote: >> a) who is "the project" in this case >> and >> b) what does it take for a release to be a release? >=20 > I'll answer the two together. The project is the entity that "owns" > freebsd.org and a release is not a release unless it is present on > ftp.freebsd.org and has a signed announcement e-mail with hashes, etc. > on the freebsd-announce@ mailing list. Without those things there is > no reason for a user to believe that a particular set of bits is a > legitimate FreeBSD release. Additionally, a release should be = available > via the appropriate tags in the CVS and SVN repositories available = from > freebsd.org machines. Thanks. I wonder who that "entity" is? Everyone with a commit bit, or perhaps just the RE team? Anyway, it's not very important in this context. I also tracked this down, but might be out of date. = http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/releng/release-proc.ht= ml "New releases of FreeBSD are released from the -STABLE branch at = approximately four month intervals." To be honest, I'm sure we all agree this sort of discussion is not = useful on hackers=20 and obviously at some point needs to turn into work rather than points = of view. Mostly it just boils down, "lets see if we can do -STABLE point releases a bit more = frequently". - Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 26 22:52:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E74C1106566C; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:52:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark@exonetric.com) Received: from relay0.exonetric.net (relay0.exonetric.net [82.138.248.161]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3B3D8FC16; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:52:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.29] (unknown [78.86.207.85]) by relay0.exonetric.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5068957007; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:52:45 +0000 (GMT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Mark Blackman In-Reply-To: <20120126224921.GA26109@lonesome.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:52:44 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <201201260937.47448.jhb@freebsd.org> <6D5F6ECE-5966-4849-AFDC-7F385E2CE906@exonetric.com> <201201261322.29688.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120126224921.GA26109@lonesome.com> To: Mark Linimon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Mark Saad , John Baldwin Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:52:50 -0000 On 26 Jan 2012, at 22:49, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 10:23:43PM +0000, Mark Blackman wrote: >> = http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/releng/release-proc.ht= ml >>=20 >> "New releases of FreeBSD are released from the -STABLE branch at >> approximately four month intervals." >=20 > That was our intention at one point. Obviously we've not stuck to = that. > (IMHO doing releases quite that frequently is probably beyond what we = can > do with volunteer staffing, but I'm not on re@ so take it as you = will.) >=20 > In any case, various people within the project have now absorbed the > lesson that "10 months between releases is too long", and are trying = to > figure out what to do about it. Indeed, I was just reviewing the last couple of years of release and the = thing that struck me was the number of BETAs and RCs for each point release. I suspect poor old RE is putting too much work into BETAs and RCs for point releases.=20 - Mark= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 26 22:49:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16327106566C; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:49:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5B448FC08; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:49:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 56B0C56172; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:49:21 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:49:21 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Mark Blackman Message-ID: <20120126224921.GA26109@lonesome.com> References: <201201260937.47448.jhb@freebsd.org> <6D5F6ECE-5966-4849-AFDC-7F385E2CE906@exonetric.com> <201201261322.29688.jhb@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:57:18 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Mark Saad , John Baldwin Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:49:22 -0000 On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 10:23:43PM +0000, Mark Blackman wrote: > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/releng/release-proc.html > > "New releases of FreeBSD are released from the -STABLE branch at > approximately four month intervals." That was our intention at one point. Obviously we've not stuck to that. (IMHO doing releases quite that frequently is probably beyond what we can do with volunteer staffing, but I'm not on re@ so take it as you will.) In any case, various people within the project have now absorbed the lesson that "10 months between releases is too long", and are trying to figure out what to do about it. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 27 02:18:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6C6106564A; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 02:18:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from esa-annu.mail.uoguelph.ca (esa-annu.mail.uoguelph.ca [131.104.91.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82FC28FC12; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 02:18:51 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ap4EAKcIIk+DaFvO/2dsb2JhbABChQuqTYFyAQEFI0sLGxgCAg0ZAlkGE641kWCBL4dqAQUDHAQBCwEIAQYEAwMEEBIDgmYFAwMBAgcDFQEFCwcCAYEJDAYJgh6BFgSIP4xgkm8 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.71,577,1320642000"; d="scan'208";a="153920149" Received: from erie.cs.uoguelph.ca (HELO zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca) ([131.104.91.206]) by esa-annu-pri.mail.uoguelph.ca with ESMTP; 26 Jan 2012 21:18:47 -0500 Received: from zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0EB1B3F59; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:18:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:18:47 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Macklem To: Mark Blackman Message-ID: <937372083.236461.1327630727642.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> In-Reply-To: <6D5F6ECE-5966-4849-AFDC-7F385E2CE906@exonetric.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [172.17.91.202] X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.10_GA_2692 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/6.0.10_GA_2692) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Mark Saad Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 02:18:51 -0000 Mark Blackman wrote: > On 26 Jan 2012, at 14:37, John Baldwin wrote: > > > On Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:33:40 pm Adrian Chadd wrote: > >> On 19 January 2012 09:47, Mark Saad wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> What could I do to help make 7.5-RELEASE a reality ? > >>> > >> > >> Put your hand up and volunteer to run the 7.5-RELEASE release > >> cycle. > > > > That's not actually true or really fair. There has to be some buy-in > > from the > > project to do an official release; it is not something that a single > > person > > can do off in a corner and then have the Project bless the bits as > > an official > > release. > > And raises the interesting question for an outsider of > > a) who is "the project" in this case > and > b) what does it take for a release to be a release? > > Wasn't there a freebsd-releng (or similar) mailing list ages ago? > I am going to avoid the above question, since I don't know the answer and I believe other(s) have already answered it. However, I will throw out the following comment: I can't seem to find the post, but someone suggested a release mechanism where stable/N would simply be branched when it appeared to be in good shape. Although I have no idea if this is practical for all releases, it seems that it might be a "low overhead" approach for releases off old stable branches like stable/7 currently is? (ie. Since there aren't a lot of commits happening to stable/7, just branch it. You could maybe give a one/two week warning email about when this will happen. I don't think it would cause a "flurry of commits" like happens when code slush/freeze approaches for a new .0 one.) Just a thought, rick From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 27 03:26:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7154E106566C; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 03:26:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA5B8FC0A; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 03:26:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id C2E435619E; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:26:16 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:26:16 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Mark Blackman Message-ID: <20120127032616.GB32500@lonesome.com> References: <201201260937.47448.jhb@freebsd.org> <6D5F6ECE-5966-4849-AFDC-7F385E2CE906@exonetric.com> <201201261322.29688.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120126224921.GA26109@lonesome.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 05:18:38 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Mark Saad , John Baldwin Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 03:26:17 -0000 On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 10:52:44PM +0000, Mark Blackman wrote: > I suspect poor old RE is putting too much work into BETAs and RCs for > point releases. The counter-argument is that we have a lot more leeway to make mistakes on a .0 release. We're not going to be cut any slack at all for shipping a badly regressed point release. Some minor regressions are inevitable in software, but they do indeed need to be minor. For how we're doing with regressions in general, see: http://people.freebsd.org/~linimon/studies/prs/prs_for_tag_regression.html Now, it's true that many of the recent PRs are against 9.0, and many of the ones that aren't may be stale (certainly most of the pre-2010 ones), but these are the types of things that users really notice and become unhappy about. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 27 10:06:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09ABF106566B; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:06:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danger@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E98E68FC19; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:06:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q0RA6le0037726; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:06:47 GMT (envelope-from danger@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from danger@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q0RA6ljK037725; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:06:47 GMT (envelope-from danger) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:06:47 +0000 From: Daniel Gerzo To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20120127100647.GA37668@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: stable@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD Quarterly Status Report October-December, 2011 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: monthly@FreeBSD.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:06:48 -0000 FreeBSD Quarterly Status Report October-December, 2011 Introduction This report covers FreeBSD-related projects between October and December 2011. It is the last of the four reports planned for 2011. This quarter was mainly devoted to polishing the bits for the next major version of FreeBSD, 9.0, which was already successfully released in the beginning of January 2012. Thanks to all the reporters for the excellent work! This report contains 32 entries and we hope you enjoy reading it. Please note that the deadline for submissions covering the period between January and March 2012 is April 15th, 2012. __________________________________________________________________ Projects * Auditdistd Project * BSD-Licensed C++ Stack * pfSense User-land Programs * Replacing the Regular Expression Code * System Configuration Utilities FreeBSD Team Reports * FreeBSD Ports Management Team Status Report * Release Engineering Team Status Report * The FreeBSD Foundation Status Report Kernel * CAM Target Layer (CTL) * FreeBSD No-IPv4 ("IPv6-Only") Support * GEOM MULTIPATH Rewrite * HDA Sound Driver (snd_hda) Improvements * LSI Supported mps(4) SAS driver * SCSI Direct Access Driver (da) Improvements * Status Report for NFS * The New CARP Documentation * A Tool to Check for Mistakes in Documentation -- igor * The FreeBSD German Documentation Project * The FreeBSD Japanese Documentation Project Architectures * FreeBSD/390 * FreeBSD/arm on Marvell Armada XP * FreeBSD/powerpc on AppliedMicro APM86290 * FreeBSD/powerpc on Freescale QorIQ DPAA * Improving Support for New Features in the Intel SandyBridge CPUs Ports * FreeBSD Haskell Ports * FreeBSD Ruby Ports * FreeBSD/GNOME * FreeBSD/KDE * Multimedia -- Watching/Recording Digital TV * Perl Ports Testing * Public FreeBSD Ports Development Infrastructure -- redports.org * Up to Date X.Org Server __________________________________________________________________ A Tool to Check for Mistakes in Documentation -- igor URL: http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/igor/ Contact: Warren Block igor is a program that proofreads man pages, DocBook SGML source, and other text files for many common mistakes. Files are tested for spelling mistakes, repeated words, and white-space problems. Man pages are also checked for minimal structure, and DocBook SGML source files are checked for formatting and tag problems. If you write or edit FreeBSD documentation, let igor help you check it for correctness. Open tasks: 1. Find a testing or parsing framework that can do a faster or better job, or that can understand the state of DocBook tags. 2. Add more tests. 3. Improve speed. __________________________________________________________________ Auditdistd Project Contact: Pawel Jakub Dawidek Current weakness of FreeBSD's Security Event Audit facility is that audit records are stored locally and can be modified or removed by an attacker after a system compromise. The auditdistd will allow to reliably and securely distribute audit trail files over TCP/IP network to remote system. In case of system compromise it will enable administrators to analyze audit records in trusted environment. This project is sponsored by the FreeBSD Foundation and should be completed by the end of February 2012. __________________________________________________________________ BSD-Licensed C++ Stack Contact: David Chisnall Two new libraries, libc++ (providing a C++11 STL implementation) and libcxxrt (providing an implementation of the C++ ABI specification) have been added. This is enabled by adding WITH_LIBCPLUSPLUS=yes to src.conf. It is not enabled by default because libc++ does not build with the version of gcc in the base system and requires you to build with clang. Once it is built, you can select between using GNU libstdc++ and libc++ by adding -stdlib=libc++ or -stdlib=libstdc++ to your compile and link flags (when building with clang). If you are running head (or have a spare [virtual] machine you can try it on) then please try building your C++ code with libc++ and let me know of any failures, ideally with reduced test cases. Open tasks: 1. Test ports with libc++. Hopefully most will Just Work., but others may need patches or have a hard dependency on libstdc++. 2. Make libstdc++ dynamically link to libsupc++. This will allow us to use libmap.conf to switch between libsupc++ and libcxxrt. 3. Enable building libc++ by default (hopefully in the 9.1 time-frame, when clang becomes the default system compiler) and switch to using libcxxrt instead of libsupc++ by default. 4. Lots more testing. Followed by even more testing. 5. Removing libstdc++ from the base system and making it available through ports for backwards compatibility. __________________________________________________________________ CAM Target Layer (CTL) URL: http://lists.FreeBSD.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-January/031007. html Contact: Ken Merry The CAM Target Layer (CTL) is now in FreeBSD/head. CTL is a disk and processor device emulation subsystem originally written for Copan Systems under Linux starting in 2003. It has been shipping in Copan (now SGI) products since 2005. It was ported to FreeBSD in 2008, and thanks to an agreement between SGI (who acquired Copan's assets in 2010) and Spectra Logic in 2010, CTL is available under a BSD-style license. The intent behind the agreement was that Spectra would work to get CTL into the FreeBSD tree. It will likely be merged into the stable/9 tree in mid-February. Some CTL features: * Disk and processor device emulation * Tagged queueing * SCSI task attribute support (ordered, head of queue, simple tags) * SCSI implicit command ordering support. (e.g. if a read follows a mode select, the read will be blocked until the mode select completes.) * Full task management support (abort, LUN reset, target reset, etc.) * Support for multiple ports * Support for multiple simultaneous initiators * Support for multiple simultaneous backing stores * Persistent reservation support * Mode sense/select support * Error injection support * High Availability support (1) * All I/O handled in-kernel, no userland context switch overhead. (1) HA Support is just an API stub, and needs much more to be fully functional. For the basics on configuring and running CTL, see src/sys/cam/ctl/README.ctl.txt in the FreeBSD/head source tree. __________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD Haskell Ports URL: http://wiki.FreeBSD.org/Haskell URL: https://github.com/freebsd-haskell/freebsd-haskell/ URL: http://haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-haskell/ Contact: Gábor János PÁLI Contact: Ashish SHUKLA We are proud to announce that the FreeBSD Haskell Team has updated the Haskell Platform to 2011.4.0.0, as well as updated GHC to 7.0.4 in FreeBSD Haskell ports repository. We also added a number of new Haskell ports, and their count is now more than 300. Some of the new ports include Yesod, Happstack (popular web development frameworks in Haskell), ThreadScope (a graphical profiler tool for parallel Haskell programs). Due to ports repository freeze for 9.0-RELEASE, these updates are not in official ports tree yet. They will be committed to the ports repository after it is unfrozen again, in the meantime they can be accessed through FreeBSD Haskell ports repository. Open tasks: 1. Commit pending Haskell ports to FreeBSD ports repository. 2. Test GHC to work with clang/LLVM. 3. Add an option to the lang/ghc port to be able to build it with already installed GHC instead of requiring a separate GHC bootstrap tarball. __________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD No-IPv4 ("IPv6-Only") Support URL: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ipv6/ipv6only.html Contact: Bjoern A. Zeeb The No-IPv4 (fka. "IPv6-Only") project initially prototyped in p4 and merged into mainstream FreeBSD with support from the FreeBSD Foundation and iXsystems earlier in 2011 for World IPv6 Day continued as a free time project. Thanks to the help of an anonymous source, dedicated i386 and amd64 build machines and a distribution node were setup to allow continuous building of snapshots and we hope to extend the support for the snapshots in the future providing more services. During the 9.0 release cycle a BETA and an RC snapshot were built and released. FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE will be the first official release supporting a kernel to compile out IPv4 support. We will provide (and given 9.0 is out at time of writing do provide) a no-IPv4 snapshot accompanying the official release and hope for your feedback. I would like to thank Hiroki Sato/allbsd.org for providing a mirror in Japan for the Asian community in addition to mine in Europe. Open tasks: 1. Commit/Submit upstream a few user space fixes. 2. More user space cleanup and testing. 3. Get rid of gethostby*() calls. __________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD Ports Management Team Status Report URL: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ports/ URL: http://www.FreeBSD.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributing-ports/ URL: http://portsmon.FreeBSD.org/index.html URL: http://www.FreeBSD.org/portmgr/index.html URL: http://blogs.FreeBSDish.org/portmgr/ URL: http://www.twitter.com/freebsd_portmgr/ URL: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=135441496471197 Contact: Thomas Abthorpe Contact: Port Management Team The ports tree finally surpassed 23,000 ports. The PR count still remains at about 1100. In Q4 we added 4 new committers, took in 4 commit bit for safe keeping, and had one committer return to ports work. The Ports Management team have been running -exp runs on an ongoing basis, verifying how base system updates may affect the ports tree, as well as providing QA runs for major ports updates. Of note, -exp runs were done for: * KDE4 and cmake updates * Multiple runs to test and fix breakages induced by the bump in digits for FreeBSD 10 * Verify the removal of X11BASE from ports * Test ports after import of flex and m4 into src base * Optimizations to bsd.ports.mk * Test xcb update and split into multiple ports * Estimate number of ports utilizing old interface ioctls * Ongoing validation of infrastructure with pkgng * testing ports with clang as default compiler pkgng now has real safe binary upgrade, as well as real integrity checking, work has been started to have the ports tree be able to bootstrap pkgng. More info on the CFT email.. The pointyhat-west build machine continues toward production use, code updates have made it more versatile such as swapping out information in make.conf for build slaves, assist in testing of pkgng -exp runs and to properly build linux_base ports. It has been decided that the ports tree will be migrated from CVS to Subversion, beat@ will be in charge of the project. More information on the wiki. A moderated mailing list has been created for ports related announcements, http://lists.FreeBSD.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports-announce, it is intended, but not limited, to be a means of communicating portmgr@ announcements, Calls for Testing, plus other relevant information to be used by our committers and ports maintainer community. Open tasks: 1. Looking for help getting ports to build with clang. 2. Looking for help fixing ports broken on CURRENT. (List needs updating, too) 3. Looking for help with Tier-2 architectures. 4. ports broken by src changes. 5. ports failing on pointyhat. 6. ports failing on pointyhat-west. 7. ports that are marked as BROKEN. 8. When did that port break. 9. Most ports PRs are assigned, we now need to focus on testing, committing and closing. __________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD Ruby Ports URL: http://wiki.FreeBSD.org/Ruby URL: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~pgollucci/FreeBSD/prs/prefixes.html#ruby- URL: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~pgollucci/FreeBSD/prs/prefixes.html#rubygem- Contact: Philip Gollucci Contact: Steve Wills Work is underway to convert the remaining ruby- ports to rubygem-* ports in order to keep up with the gem community. A second attempt will be made to change the default ruby from 1.8 to 1.9. There will be some unavoidable casualties of this transition. The sysutils/rubygem-chef-server port was contributed by RideCharge Inc / Taxi Magic who is now using it exclusively. Open tasks: 1. Need some fresh -exp runs to check the new status especially with ruby 1.9.3-p0. __________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD/390 Contact: Pau Amma Contact: Bjoern A. Zeeb I wandered in and started working on FreeBSD/390 about 1 month ago based on source Bjoern provided. My short term goals are to sync it with the current HEAD and write a minimal IPLabel loader, so we do not have to depend on Hercules-only commands to test the kernel boot process. Then it will be time to make the crossbuild work again and get the kernel booting. __________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD/arm on Marvell Armada XP URL: http://svnweb.FreeBSD.org/base/projects/armv6/ Contact: Grzegorz Bernacki Contact: Rafal Jaworowski Marvell Armada XP is a complete system-on-chip solution based on Sheeva embedded CPU. These devices integrate up to four ARMv6/v7 compliant Sheeva CPU cores with shared L2 cache. This work is extending the FreeBSD/arm infrastructure towards support for recent ARM architecture variations along with a basic set of device drivers for integrated peripherals. The following code has been implemented since the last status report: * SMP support * + Implemented TLB broadcast and RFO + Tested 2 and 4 cores setup in WT cache mode * SATA driver integrated and tested * CESA driver integrated and tested Next steps: * L2 cache support * Full support for WB/WBA cache __________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD/GNOME URL: http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome URL: http://www.marcuscom.com:8080/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/ Contact: GNOME FreeBSD mailing list It has been a while since we did a status report. This year we started work on GNOME 3.0. Due to time constrains and lack of man power, this version did not make it into the ports. Currently we have 3.2 in our development repo. See the development FAQ on our website for details. The MC-UPDATING file contains upgrade instructions. Currently the GNOME team is understaffed, help is welcome! Open tasks: 1. Update the FreeBSD gnome website with GNOME 3.x information, and still supply the 2.32.x info. __________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD/KDE URL: http://FreeBSD.kde.org URL: http://FreeBSD.kde.org/area51.php Contact: FreeBSD KDE The KDE/FreeBSD team have continued to improve the experience of KDE software and Qt under FreeBSD. The latest round of improvements include: * Many fixes upstream to make KDE and Qt build with Clang * Making automoc not freeze with parallel builds The team has also made many releases and upstreamed many fixes and patches. The latest round of releases include: * KDE SC: 4.7.3, 4.7.4 (in the area51 experimental repository) * Qt: 4.8.0 (in the area51 experimental repository) * CMake: 2.8.6, 2.8.7 The team is always looking for more testers and porters so please contact us at kde@FreeBSD.org and visit our home page at http://FreeBSD.kde.org. Open tasks: 1. Testing KDE SC 4.8.0. 2. Testing KDE PIM 4.7.4. 3. Testing phonon-gstreamer and phonon-vlc as the phonon-xine backend was deprecated (but will remain in the ports for now). 4. Testing the Calligra beta releases (in the area51 repository). __________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD/powerpc on AppliedMicro APM86290 Contact: Grzegorz Bernacki Contact: Rafal Jaworowski The APM86290 system-on-chip device is a member of AppliedMicro's PACKETpro family of embedded processors. The chip includes two Power Architecture PPC465 processor cores, which are compliant with Book-E specification of the architecture, and a number of integrated peripherals. This work is extending current Book-E support in FreeBSD towards PPC4xx processors variation along with device drivers for integrated peripherals. The following drivers have been created since the last report: * Ethernet controller driver * Classifier driver * Finished Queue Manager/Traffic Manager * Improved performance and stability Next steps: * L2 cache support * Merge APM86290 support to -CURRENT __________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD/powerpc on Freescale QorIQ DPAA URL: http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=P2040 URL: http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=P3041 URL: http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=P5020 Contact: Michal Dubiel Contact: Rafal Jaworowski Contact: Piotr Ziecik The QorIQ Data Path Acceleration Architecture (DPAA) from Freescale is a comprehensive architecture, which integrates all aspects of packet processing in the SoC, addressing issues and requirements resulting from the nature of QorIQ multicore SoCs. It includes: * Cores * Network and packet I/O * Hardware offload accelerators * The infrastructure required to facilitate the flow of packets between the above The DPAA also addresses various performance related requirements, especially those created by the high speed network I/O found on multicore SoCs such as P2041, P3041, P5020, etc. This work is bringing up FreeBSD on these system-on-chip devices along with device drivers for integrated peripherals. Current FreeBSD QorIQ DPAA support includes: * QorIQ P2041 and P3041 devices * E500mc core complex * Adaptation of toolchain for the new core * Booting via U-Boot bootloader * CoreNet interconnect fabric * L1, L2, L3 cache * Serial console (UART) * Interrupt controller * DPAA infrastructure (BMAN, FMAN, QMAN) * Ethernet (basic network functionality using Independent Mode of DPAA infrastructure) * EHCI controller * PCI Express controller (host mode) * SMP support (up to quad-core) * I2C Next steps: * QorIQ P5020 (32-bit mode) support * Ethernet (full network functionality using Regular Mode of DPAA infrastructure) * Enhanced SDHC __________________________________________________________________ GEOM MULTIPATH Rewrite URL: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~mav/gmultipath5.patch Contact: Alexander Motin The GEOM MULTIPATH class underwent a major rewrite to fix many problems and improve functionality, including: * Improved locking and destruction process to fix crashes. * "Automatic" configuration method improved to make it safe by reading metadata back from all specified paths after writing to one. * "Manual" configuration method added to work without using on-disk metadata. New "add" and "remove" commands allow to manage paths manually. * Failed paths are no longer dropped from GEOM, but only marked as failed and excluded from I/O operations. Failed paths can be automatically restored when all other paths are lost or marked as failed, for example, because of device-caused (not transport) errors. "Fail" and "restore" commands added to manually control failure status. * Added Active/Active mode support. Unlike the default Active/Passive mode, the load is evenly distributed between all working paths. If supported by the device, it allows to significantly improve performance, utilizing bandwidth of all paths. It is controlled by the -A option during creation. * Provider size check added to reduce chance of conflict with other GEOM classes. * GEOM is now destroyed on last provider disconnection. * `status` and `list` commands output was improved. These changes are now committed into the FreeBSD HEAD branch. Merge to 9-STABLE and 8-STABLE is planned after 9.0 release. Project sponsored by iXsystems, Inc. Open tasks: 1. Implement some additional request ordering mechanism for the Active/Active mode. Some consumers in theory may not wait for previous requests completion before submitting new overlapping or dependent requests. Those requests may be reordered on device if run via different paths simultaneously. __________________________________________________________________ HDA Sound Driver (snd_hda) Improvements URL: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~mav/hda.rewrite2.patch Contact: Alexander Motin snd_hda(4) driver took major rewrite: * Big old hdac driver was split into three independent pieces: HDA controller driver (hdac), HDA CODEC driver (hdacc) and HDA audio function driver (hdaa). All drivers are completely independent and talk to each other only via NewBus interfaces. Using more NewBus bells and whistles allows to properly see HDA structure with standard system instruments, such as `devinfo -v`. Biggest driver file size now is 150K, instead of 240K before, and the code is much cleaner. * Support for multichannel recording was added. While I have never seen it configured by default, UAA specification tells that it is possible. Now, as specification defines, driver checks input associations for pins with sequence numbers 14 and 15, and if found (usually) -- works as before, mixing signals together. If it does not, it configures input association as multichannel. I have found some CODECs doing strange things when configured for multichannel recording, but I have also found successfully working examples. * Signal tracer was improved to look for cases where several DACs/ADCs in CODEC can work with the same audio signal. If such a case is found, the driver registers additional playback/record stream (channel) for the pcm device. Having more than one stream allows to avoid vchans use and so avoid extra conversion to vchan's pre-configured sample rate and format. Not many CODECs allow this, especially on playback, but some do. * New controller streams reservation mechanism was implemented. That allows to have more pcm devices than streams supported by the controller (usually 4 in each direction). Now it limits only number of simultaneously transferred audio streams, that is rarely reachable and properly reported if happens. * Codec pins and GPIO signals configuration was exported via set of writable sysctls. Another sysctl dev.hdaa.X.reconfig allows to trigger driver reconfiguration in run-time. The only requirement is that all pcm devices should be closed at the moment, as they will be destroyed and recreated. This should significantly simplify process of fixing CODEC configuration. It should be possible now even to write GUI to do it with few mouse clicks. * Driver now decodes pins location and connector type names. In some cases it gives a hint to the user where the connectors of the pcm device are located on the system case. The number of channels supported by pcm device, reported now (if it is not 2), should also make finding them easier. The code is in testing now and should be soon committed to the HEAD branch. Project sponsored by iXsystems, Inc. Open tasks: 1. Closer inspection of HDMI/DisplayPort audio is planned. 2. A number of hardware, mostly laptops, need workarounds to work properly. Some statistics should be collected to implement some of them avoiding excessive code bloat. __________________________________________________________________ Improving Support for New Features in the Intel SandyBridge CPUs Contact: Konstantin Belousov Support for new features in the Intel SandyBridge CPUs is progressing. The patch to query and allow extended FPU states was committed, which enabled the YMM registers and AVX instruction set on the capable processors. Todo items include get wider testing of the change before planned merge to stable/9 in a month, and start using XSAVEOPT instruction to optimize context switch times. Patch to enable and use per-process TLB was developed. Latest version is available at http://people.freebsd.org/~kib/misc/pcid.2.patch. The facility, referred in the documentation as PCID, allows to avoid TLB flush on context switches by applying PID tag to each non-global TLB entry. On SandyBridge, measurements did not prove any difference between context switch latencies on patched and stock kernels. Forthcoming IvyBridge CPUs promised to provide optimizations in the form of INVPCID instructions that allow to optimize TLB shootdown handlers. The patch above uses the instruction on the capable CPU. Todo items are to get access to IvyBridge and do the benchmarks. Future work might provide SEP support, use hardware random generator from IvyBridge for random(4), considering using faster instructions to access %fs and %gs bases, and use improved AES-NI instruction set for aesni(4). __________________________________________________________________ LSI Supported mps(4) SAS driver URL: http://lists.FreeBSD.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2012-January/031358. html Contact: Ken Merry Contact: Kashyap Desai The LSI-supported version of the mps(4) driver, that supports their 6Gb SAS controllers and WarpDrive solid state drives, is available in FreeBSD/head. In addition to WarpDrive support, the driver also has several other new features: * Integrated RAID (IR) support * Improved error recovery code * Support for SCSI protection information (EEDP) * Support for TLR (Transport Level Retries), needed for tape drives * ioctl interface compatible with LSI utilities Thanks to LSI for doing the work on this driver, and the testing. I plan to merge it into stable/9 and stable/8 in early February. __________________________________________________________________ Multimedia -- Watching/Recording Digital TV URL: http://wiki.FreeBSD.org/WebcamCompat URL: http://wiki.FreeBSD.org/HTPC URL: http://wiki.FreeBSD.org/VDR Contact: Hans Petter Selasky Contact: Jason Harmening Contact: Juergen Lock Progress has been made when watching/recording live digital TV using FreeBSD: * multimedia/webcamd is continuously adding support for more and more USB tuners using the Linux V4L/DVB drivers (also including remotes via webcamd and comms/lirc.) * multimedia/cx88 recently added Linux DVB API support for CX88-based PCI(-e) DVB-T tuners so "common" apps can now also be used with that hardware. * multimedia/xbmc-pvr was committed recently and the multimedia/vdr ports are working too for watching/recording live digital TV, and also other apps like kaffeine, or mplayer, or vlc. Open tasks: 1. Continue updating the VDR ports to the latest versions and fix remaining bugs. 2. Update multimedia/libxine to 1.2.0 that recently was released (which VDR uses.) 3. Test more hardware? __________________________________________________________________ Perl Ports Testing Contact: Steve Wills Contact: Sunpoet Po-Chuan Hsieh Many Perl modules in ports come with test cases included with their source. This project's goal is to ensure that all these tests pass. Patches have been added to the ports tinderbox to allow test related dependencies to be installed and many ports have TEST_DEPENDS now. A patch is available to enable testing for those who wish to help out. All p5- ports have been built and tests attempted. Approximately 61% of the Perl ports pass currently. Many ports have been updated to include missing dependencies or make other changes which allow tests to pass. Long term goals include a more generic framework for testing ports and automated tests executed when ports are updated. Open tasks: 1. Many Perl ports which do not pass tests remain. 2. Need to figure out how to move testing out of tinderbox. 3. A patch to build Perl with -pthread (but not enable useithreads in Perl) is pending. It will fix many currently broken tests __________________________________________________________________ pfSense URL: http://www.pfsense.org/ Contact: Scott Ullrich Contact: Chris Buechler Contact: Ermal Luçi pfSense is a free and open source customized distribution of FreeBSD tailored for use as a firewall and router. 2.0.1 was just released which corrected a number of issues http://blog.pfsense.org/?p=633. Open tasks: 1. 6 month release cycle. 2. Moving builds to FreeBSD 9. 3. Full IPV6 support. 4. PBI Package binaries. 5. Unbound integration. 6. Multi-instance Captive Portal. 7. Replacing Prototype with jQuery. __________________________________________________________________ Public FreeBSD Ports Development Infrastructure -- redports.org URL: http://redports.org/ URL: irc://irc.freenode.net#redports URL: https://groups.google.com/group/redports URL: http://redports.org/wiki/UserGuide Contact: Bernhard Froehlich Redports is a free service for FreeBSD port maintainers and port committers to automatically buildtest ports on various FreeBSD versions and architectures. The motivation to do that was because there are many people that do not have access to Ports Tinderboxes and the existing Tinderboxes are usually dedicated to a single team. The platform was designed with scalability in mind but building capacity is currently very limited until more hardware is available. I am already in contact with the usual suspects to improve that. Open tasks: 1. Get more Hardware for building. 2. Port options support. 3. ports-mgmt/portlint support. __________________________________________________________________ Release Engineering Team Status Report URL: http://www.FreeBSD.org/releng/ Contact: Release Engineering Team The Release Engineering Team was pleased to announce the release of FreeBSD-9.0 on January 12th, 2012. To acknowledge his incredible contributions to the world of computing and in particular the FreeBSD Project's corner of that world FreeBSD-9.0 was dedicated to Dennis Ritchie. May he rest in peace. The Release Engineering Team also wishes to thank the FreeBSD Developers and Community for all the work they put into the release. With the FreeBSD-9.0 release cycle completed our focus shifts to preparing for the FreeBSD-8.3 release. A schedule has not been set but we expect to be shooting for release some time in March 2012. __________________________________________________________________ Replacing the Regular Expression Code URL: http://svnweb.FreeBSD.org/base/user/gabor/tre-integration/ URL: http://laurikari.net/tre/ URL: http://www.tdk.aut.bme.hu/Files/TDK2011/POSIX-regularis-kifejezesek1.pd f Contact: Gábor Kövesdán The current regular expression code in libc has to be replaced because it is old, unmaintained and does not support wide characters. As it has been elaborated, TRE is the most suitable replacement outside that has an acceptable license. However, the development of BSD grep also brought some relevant observations. In short, there are some possibilities to optimize pattern matching but it is not possible with the POSIX API, because: * It uses NUL-terminated strings that requires processing each character and makes longer jumps impossible. * It matches for one pattern at a time. If more patterns are searched, there are more efficient ways for pattern matching but we have to know all of them and process them together. This project intends to implement these shortcut and provide efficient pattern matching for all programs that use regex matching. It will also help avoiding the custom tricks that are hardcoded into some programs, like GNU grep, to work around the limiting POSIX API. Besides, GNU grep has some extensions over the POSIX regular expression, which are necessary if we want to get rid of GNU code in the end. Open tasks: 1. Implement multi-pattern heuristic regex matching. 2. Implement GNU-specific regex extensions. 3. Adapt BSD grep to use the multi-pattern interface. 4. Test standard-compliance and correct behavior. __________________________________________________________________ SCSI Direct Access Driver (da) Improvements Contact: Alexander Motin BIO_DELETE support (aka TRIM) was added to the CAM SCSI Direct Access device driver (da). Depending on device capabilities different methods are used to implement it. Currently used method can be read/set via kern.cam.da.X.delete_method sysctls. Possible values are: * NONE - no provisioning support reported by the device; * DISABLE - provisioning support was disabled because of errors; * ZERO - use WRITE SAME (10) command to write zeroes; * WS10 - use WRITE SAME (10) command with UNMAP bit set; * WS16 - use WRITE SAME (16) command with UNMAP bit set; * UNMAP - use UNMAP command (equivalent of the ATA DSM TRIM command). The last two methods (UNMAP and WS16) are defined by SBC specification and the UNMAP method is the most advanced one. The rest of the methods I have found supported in Linux, and as they were trivial to implement, then why not? I hope they will be useful in some cases. As side product of fetching logical block provisioning support flag, da driver also got support for reporting device physical sector size (aka Advanced Format) via stripesize/stripeoffset GEOM fields. Some quirks were added for known 4K sector disks not reporting it properly. The code was committed to the HEAD branch and is going to be merged to 8/9-STABLE after some time. Project sponsored by iXsystems, Inc. Open tasks: 1. To implement more effective selection of the best delete method some more parameters need to be obtained from the device. Unluckily none of devices I have report them. __________________________________________________________________ Status Report for NFS Contact: Rick Macklem The new NFS client and server are no longer considered experimental and are the default for FreeBSD 9.0. Included is fairly complete support for NFSv4.0, as well as NFSv3 and NFSv2. NFSv4.0 delegations are not enabled by default for the server, since there is no handling of them for local system calls done on the server, as yet. So far, the transition seems to have gone alright, with only a couple of obscure issues identified that did not get fixed for FreeBSD 9.0. Patches for these can be found at http://people.FreeBSD.org/~rmacklem Work is ongoing with respect to NFSv4.1 client support. The current code includes functioning support for the required components, in particular, sessions for both fore and back channels. Development for the big optional component pNFS is in progress and will hopefully be functional for the Files layout in a few months. The modified sources can be found at http://svn.FreeBSD.org/viewvc/base/projects/nfsv4.1-client. There is also a patch for what I call packrats, where threads perform aggressive on-disk caching of delegated file in the NFSv4.0 client. It currently seems to function OK, but does not yet have client reboot recovery implemented, so it can only be used experimentally at this time. This patch can be found at http://people.FreeBSD.org/~rmacklem/packrat-patches. __________________________________________________________________ System Configuration Utilities URL: http://druidbsd.sourceforge.net/ Contact: Devin Teske On December 31st, 2011 sysutils/sysrc was added to the ports-tree. On January 6th, 2012 sysutils/host-setup was added to the ports-tree. Still pending is the addition of sysutils/tzdialog. Together or separately, these utilities try to make configuring the system easier and more efficient. sysrc(8) allows you to safely modify rc.conf(5) without fear or trepidation; making remote-management and scripted changes a simple transaction. Also useful in managing puppet installations. host-setup(8) allows you to configure your time zone, hostname, network interfaces, default router/gateway, DNS nameservers in resolv.conf(5) all via dialog(1) (or Xdialog(1)) interface. Designed to replace sysinstall(8), host-setup is written entirely in sh(1) and is completely stand-alone. tzdialog(8) is an ISO-3166 compatible sh(1) rewrite of tzsetup(8). It is designed to be a drop-in replacement for tzsetup. The major difference between the two is tzdialog(8) adds supports for graphical user interface via Xdialog(1) (by passing the `-X' argument), whereas tzsetup(8) only supports console-based interaction. Open tasks: 1. Write a man-page for tzdialog(8). 2. Submit current tzdialog(8) version (1.1) and yet-to-be completed man-page to ports-tree as sysutils/tzdialog. __________________________________________________________________ The FreeBSD Foundation Status Report URL: www.FreeBSDFoundation.org Contact: Deb Goodkin The most exciting news to report is that we raised $426,000 through our fundraising efforts. We were overwhelmed by the generosity of the FreeBSD community. We would like to thank everyone who made a contribution to FreeBSD by either making a financial donation to the foundation or volunteering on the Project. We published our semi-annual newsletter in December. If you have not already done so, please take a moment to read this publication to find out how we supported the FreeBSD Project and community during the second half of 2011. There are also two great testimonials in the newsletter from TaxiMagic and the Apache Software Foundation. The Foundation sponsored EuroBSDCon 2011 which was held in The Netherlands, October 6-9. And, we sponsored six developers to attend the conference. We sponsored the Bay Area Vendor Summit in November. We were represented at LISA '11, Dec 7-8 in Boston MA. We are a proud sponsor of AsiaBSDCon 2012, which will be held in Tokyo, Japan, March 22-25. The Foundation funded project Feed-Forward Clock Synchronization Algorithms Project by the University of Melbourne completed. We approved two new projects for 2012, they are analyzing the performance of FreeBSD's IPv6 stack by Bjoern Zeeb, and implementing auditdistd daemon by Pawel Jakub Dawidek We purchased more servers and other hardware for the FreeBSD co-location centers at Sentex, NYI, and ISC. The work above, as well as many other tasks which we do for the FreeBSD Project, could not be done without donations. Please help us by making a donation or asking your company to make a donation. We would be happy to send marketing literature to you or your company. Find out how to make a donation at our donate page. Find out more up-to-date Foundation news by reading our blog and Facebook page. __________________________________________________________________ The FreeBSD German Documentation Project URL: https://doc.bsdgroup.de/ URL: http://www.FreeBSD.org/doc/de_DE.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/bsdinstall.ht ml Contact: Benedict Reuschling Contact: Johann Kois The German Documentation Project is happy to report that two big chapters have been translated in the past quarter. The first update is in the firewall chapter and covering the complete IPFW section. It was contributed by Christopher J. Ruwe. There were style and language fixes to be done, but the biggest amount of work, the actual translation, was done by him. We thank Christopher very much. The other chapter that was translated is the new bsdinstall chapter. Benedict Reuschling did the work on this chapter. He tried to keep the same titles for sections that are mostly describing the same things as in the sysinstall chapter (at least where this was possible). German speaking users are encouraged to read both chapters and report typos or grammar errors back to us so we can fix them. The German website is being updated on a regular basis. Open tasks: 1. Catch up with the latest changes made to the documentation. 2. Translate more www pages into German. 3. Find bugs in the German documentation and fix them. __________________________________________________________________ The FreeBSD Japanese Documentation Project URL: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ja/ URL: http://www.jp.FreeBSD.org/doc-jp/ Contact: Hiroki Sato Contact: Ryusuke Suzuki During this period, many part of the outdated contents in the www/ja subtree were updated to the latest versions in the English counterpart. The "bsdinstall" section in Handbook was newly translated and the "cutting-edge" section is now work-in-progress. Open tasks: 1. Further translation work for outdated documents in both doc/ja_JP.eucJP and www/ja. __________________________________________________________________ The New CARP URL: http://svnweb.FreeBSD.org/base?view=revision&revision=228571 Contact: Gleb Smirnoff Contact: Bjoern Zeeb Contact: George Neville-Neil Significantly updated CARP protocol has been committed to head/. I expect the new code to be easier to maintain and less buggy, since it uses less hacks in the networking stack. The new CARP does not bring a lot of new features, however here is a couple: * One can put a single redundant address on an interface. * Master/backup state can be switched via ifconfig. * Feature that demotes carp(4) during pfsync(4) update has been restored (it was lost in 7.0). * The overall ifconfig(8) output is now more readable, since addresses are exactly on the interfaces they are running. Yes, this is feature, too :) The code has been developed by glebius@ with lots of help from bz@. Open tasks: 1. Work on arpbalance/ipbalance features. Since I do not utilize them at all, first I need to find somebody eager to see these features and willing to test patches. Sponsoring work is also appreciated. glebius@ to handle. 2. Estimate whether we need to catch up with OpenBSD on putting demotion counter into datagrams. glebius@ to handle. 3. Update tcpdump(8) to enable nice printing of CARP packets. gnn@ to handle. 4. Work with IANA to get an official protocol number. gnn@ to handle. __________________________________________________________________ Up to Date X.Org Server URL: http://wiki.FreeBSD.org/Xorg Contact: X11 FreeBSD mailing list The X11 team has started work on the next major update for the X.Org ports. You might have noticed libraries and proto ports being updated that belong to the X.Org stack. Currently in our development repository we have the latest versions of many ports including mesa and xf86-video-intel. We support versions 1.7.7 and 1.10.4 of the X.Org tree for users with the appropriate hardware and patches. We need more testers for both the standard version from xorg-devel and the WITH_NEW_XORG version. We also need testers for updated input/video drivers, especially for the less mainstream ones. In order to test check out our svn repository from http://trillian.chruetertee.ch/ports/browser/branches/xorg-dev and the merge script from http://people.FreeBSD.org/~miwi/xorg/xorgmerge. See the wiki for more details. Open tasks: 1. Investigate xorg-server 1.12 which brings xinput 2.2. 2. Merge development repository into the main repository, after more testing. __________________________________________________________________ (c) 1995-2012 The FreeBSD Project. All rights reserved. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 27 12:01:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6BE1065678; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:01:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark@exonetric.com) Received: from relay0.exonetric.net (relay0.exonetric.net [82.138.248.161]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E587F8FC26; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:01:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from simonmacbook.fairfx.local (unknown [62.244.179.66]) by relay0.exonetric.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B61B957228; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:01:45 +0000 (GMT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Mark Blackman In-Reply-To: <20120127032616.GB32500@lonesome.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:01:44 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <201201260937.47448.jhb@freebsd.org> <6D5F6ECE-5966-4849-AFDC-7F385E2CE906@exonetric.com> <201201261322.29688.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120126224921.GA26109@lonesome.com> <20120127032616.GB32500@lonesome.com> To: Mark Linimon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Mark Saad , John Baldwin Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:01:47 -0000 On 27 Jan 2012, at 03:26, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 10:52:44PM +0000, Mark Blackman wrote: >> I suspect poor old RE is putting too much work into BETAs and RCs for >> point releases.=20 >=20 > The counter-argument is that we have a lot more leeway to make = mistakes > on a .0 release. We're not going to be cut any slack at all for = shipping > a badly regressed point release. >=20 > Some minor regressions are inevitable in software, but they do indeed > need to be minor. >=20 > For how we're doing with regressions in general, see: >=20 > = http://people.freebsd.org/~linimon/studies/prs/prs_for_tag_regression.html= >=20 > Now, it's true that many of the recent PRs are against 9.0, and many = of > the ones that aren't may be stale (certainly most of the pre-2010 = ones), > but these are the types of things that users really notice and become > unhappy about. All good points, although I'd guess there's some diminishing returns = argument for progressive RCs/BETAs, however probably only the RE team have a good = feeling for the sweet spot. - Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 28 01:54:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1AD51065670 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:54:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rysto32@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78CF78FC08 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:54:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werm13 with SMTP id m13so336304wer.13 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:54:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=+ZOypNmYg5mH6+YYfdknPJHeIYR/tgLy7S4w9w87VgE=; b=d8j+zODwO6MOQbeKZNHT+Nkwdyk4WrC3NjCB9DBnRaP9qzg2syPlOBFAUPbc9Q1tKZ QDUM7QvMmQiV6K95nYaZ7IsTxvmz310QYCs0CCbmzlNa6DSlGLDO/KPXs0nC1fAny4cG rdhTf2DD4QlQkshlfbZQdjaLh7LmFF+DMI2qU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.145.207 with SMTP id p57mr3690427wej.29.1327714248622; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:30:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.180.106.129 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:30:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 20:30:48 -0500 Message-ID: From: Ryan Stone To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Kernel threads inherit CPU affinity from random sibling X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:54:06 -0000 Right now, whenever a thread is spawned, it inherits CPU affinity from its "parent" thread. I put parent in scare quotes because as far as I can tell, for a kernel thread the parent is essentially chosen arbitrarily (it looks like it is the most recent thread spawned in that kernel process). Inheriting affinity is arguably correct for userland threads (at the very least, an explicit design decision to implement inheritance was clearly implemented). However for kernel threads, this behaviour leads to bizarre results that clearly weren't intended. For example, I added a printf to sched_fork_thread() that prints a message every time a thread inherits affinity from its "parent". Here's the results from booting a dual-core VM with net.isr.bindthreads=1: Thread 100006 inheriting affinity from parent swi1: netisr 0(100005) Thread 100007 inheriting affinity from parent swi3: vm(100006) Thread 100008 inheriting affinity from parent swi4: clock(100007) Thread 100014 inheriting affinity from parent swi4: clock(100008) Thread 100017 inheriting affinity from parent swi5: +(100014) Thread 100018 inheriting affinity from parent swi6: Giant taskq(100017) Thread 100022 inheriting affinity from parent swi6: task queue(100018) Thread 100025 inheriting affinity from parent swi2: cambio(100022) Thread 100026 inheriting affinity from parent irq14: ata0(100025) Thread 100027 inheriting affinity from parent irq15: ata1(100026) Thread 100028 inheriting affinity from parent irq19: le0(100027) Thread 100029 inheriting affinity from parent irq21: pcm0(100028) Thread 100034 inheriting affinity from parent irq22: ohci0(100029) Thread 100035 inheriting affinity from parent irq1: atkbd0(100034) The result is that every thread in intr kernel process ends up inheriting the affinity(my favourite part is that both softclock threads are now forced to fight over the same CPU). I am working on the following patch that adds a flag to sched_fork()/sched_fork_thread() that can be passed to force the child thread to *not* inherit affinity. However, this doesn't address affinity inheritance from calls to kproc_create(). I suppose that I could push the flag up into fork1(), but I'd prefer not to. I am wondering if it even makes sense for affinity to be inherited from a parent process even for userland processes. What are peoples thoughts? Is this the right approach? [rstone@pcbsd-1039 ~/freebsd/head]$ svn diff Index: sys/sys/sched.h =================================================================== --- sys/sys/sched.h (revision 230616) +++ sys/sys/sched.h (working copy) @@ -80,7 +80,7 @@ * Proc related scheduling hooks. */ void sched_exit(struct proc *p, struct thread *childtd); -void sched_fork(struct thread *td, struct thread *childtd); +void sched_fork(struct thread *td, struct thread *childtd, int flags); void sched_fork_exit(struct thread *td); void sched_class(struct thread *td, int class); void sched_nice(struct proc *p, int nice); @@ -90,7 +90,7 @@ * priorities inherited from their procs, and use up cpu time. */ void sched_exit_thread(struct thread *td, struct thread *child); -void sched_fork_thread(struct thread *td, struct thread *child); +void sched_fork_thread(struct thread *td, struct thread *child, int flags); void sched_lend_prio(struct thread *td, u_char prio); void sched_lend_user_prio(struct thread *td, u_char pri); fixpt_t sched_pctcpu(struct thread *td); @@ -105,6 +105,13 @@ void sched_preempt(struct thread *td); /* + * Flags for sched_fork() and sched_fork_thread(). + */ + +/* New child thread will not inherit affinity of parent. */ +#define SCHED_NO_AFFINITY 0x01 + +/* * Threads are moved on and off of run queues */ void sched_add(struct thread *td, int flags); Index: sys/kern/sched_ule.c =================================================================== --- sys/kern/sched_ule.c (revision 230616) +++ sys/kern/sched_ule.c (working copy) @@ -1951,10 +1951,10 @@ * priority. */ void -sched_fork(struct thread *td, struct thread *child) +sched_fork(struct thread *td, struct thread *child, int flags) { THREAD_LOCK_ASSERT(td, MA_OWNED); - sched_fork_thread(td, child); + sched_fork_thread(td, child, flags); /* * Penalize the parent and child for forking. */ @@ -1969,7 +1969,7 @@ * Fork a new thread, may be within the same process. */ void -sched_fork_thread(struct thread *td, struct thread *child) +sched_fork_thread(struct thread *td, struct thread *child, int flags) { struct td_sched *ts; struct td_sched *ts2; @@ -2004,6 +2004,9 @@ #ifdef KTR bzero(ts2->ts_name, sizeof(ts2->ts_name)); #endif + + if (flags & SCHED_NO_AFFINITY) + cpuset_setthread(child->td_tid, cpuset_root); } /* Index: sys/kern/kern_thr.c =================================================================== --- sys/kern/kern_thr.c (revision 230616) +++ sys/kern/kern_thr.c (working copy) @@ -257,7 +257,7 @@ bcopy(p->p_comm, newtd->td_name, sizeof(newtd->td_name)); thread_lock(td); /* let the scheduler know about these things. */ - sched_fork_thread(td, newtd); + sched_fork_thread(td, newtd, 0); thread_unlock(td); if (P_SHOULDSTOP(p)) newtd->td_flags |= TDF_ASTPENDING | TDF_NEEDSUSPCHK; Index: sys/kern/sched_4bsd.c =================================================================== --- sys/kern/sched_4bsd.c (revision 230616) +++ sys/kern/sched_4bsd.c (working copy) @@ -58,6 +58,9 @@ #include #include + +#include + #ifdef HWPMC_HOOKS #include #endif @@ -743,13 +746,13 @@ } void -sched_fork(struct thread *td, struct thread *childtd) +sched_fork(struct thread *td, struct thread *childtd, int flags) { - sched_fork_thread(td, childtd); + sched_fork_thread(td, childtd, flags); } void -sched_fork_thread(struct thread *td, struct thread *childtd) +sched_fork_thread(struct thread *td, struct thread *childtd, int flags) { struct td_sched *ts; @@ -759,7 +762,10 @@ childtd->td_priority = childtd->td_base_pri; ts = childtd->td_sched; bzero(ts, sizeof(*ts)); - ts->ts_flags |= (td->td_sched->ts_flags & TSF_AFFINITY); + if (flags & SCHED_NO_AFFINITY) + cpuset_setthread(childtd->td_tid, cpuset_root); + else + ts->ts_flags |= (td->td_sched->ts_flags & TSF_AFFINITY); } void @@ -1613,7 +1619,6 @@ return (td->td_name); #endif } - void sched_affinity(struct thread *td) { @@ -1642,6 +1647,10 @@ if (!(ts->ts_flags & TSF_AFFINITY)) return; +/* + printf("Thread %s(%d) having affinity applied.\n", td->td_name, td->td_tid); + kdb_backtrace();*/ + /* Pinned threads and bound threads should be left alone. */ if (td->td_pinned != 0 || td->td_flags & TDF_BOUND) return; Index: sys/kern/kern_kthread.c =================================================================== --- sys/kern/kern_kthread.c (revision 230616) +++ sys/kern/kern_kthread.c (working copy) @@ -29,6 +29,7 @@ #include #include +#include #include #include #include @@ -292,7 +293,7 @@ thread_link(newtd, p); thread_lock(oldtd); /* let the scheduler know about these things. */ - sched_fork_thread(oldtd, newtd); + sched_fork_thread(oldtd, newtd, SCHED_NO_AFFINITY); TD_SET_CAN_RUN(newtd); thread_unlock(oldtd); PROC_UNLOCK(p); Index: sys/kern/kern_intr.c =================================================================== --- sys/kern/kern_intr.c (revision 230616) +++ sys/kern/kern_intr.c (working copy) @@ -456,6 +456,7 @@ thread_lock(td); sched_class(td, PRI_ITHD); TD_SET_IWAIT(td); + thread_unlock(td); td->td_pflags |= TDP_ITHREAD; ithd->it_thread = td; Index: sys/kern/kern_fork.c =================================================================== --- sys/kern/kern_fork.c (revision 230616) +++ sys/kern/kern_fork.c (working copy) @@ -488,7 +488,7 @@ * Allow the scheduler to initialize the child. */ thread_lock(td); - sched_fork(td, td2); + sched_fork(td, td2, 0); thread_unlock(td); /* From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 28 03:41:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7DA3106566B for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 03:41:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asmrookie@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AF6E8FC0A for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 03:41:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werm13 with SMTP id m13so390059wer.13 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:41:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=HUYna00jqQPK7ZLZyfSIXoKZjIW0pD7c8MhL7lqhvR4=; b=PhV1a6B5XVTeqYECEExVrv19I95sNKaYvgBPKsPjRA9VkDl/OSiMAhxpAZhca+jCR7 HDCWRwhvK92naOK1PwRMsiRx7h2mvQdWPAx4G088KpVzll2VFcv7bYedCP5EtAT3x8I8 dGvZYoeUX+68m9dNIZOUPHdCPO5cxdH3i/UNE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.133.82 with SMTP id p60mr3984361wei.59.1327722105411; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:41:45 -0800 (PST) Sender: asmrookie@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.177.73 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:41:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 04:41:45 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: PpD7FXlRm4TtMm9sTYks6mkB3ik Message-ID: From: Attilio Rao To: Ryan Stone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel threads inherit CPU affinity from random sibling X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 03:41:47 -0000 2012/1/28 Ryan Stone : > Right now, whenever a thread is spawned, it inherits CPU affinity from > its "parent" thread. =C2=A0I put parent in scare quotes because as far as= I > can tell, for a kernel thread the parent is essentially chosen > arbitrarily (it looks like it is the most recent thread spawned in > that kernel process). =C2=A0Inheriting affinity is arguably correct for > userland threads (at the very least, an explicit design decision to > implement inheritance was clearly implemented). =C2=A0However for kernel > threads, this behaviour leads to bizarre results that clearly weren't > intended. =C2=A0For example, I added a printf to sched_fork_thread() that > prints a message every time a thread inherits affinity from its > "parent". =C2=A0Here's the results from booting a dual-core VM with > net.isr.bindthreads=3D1: > > Thread 100006 inheriting affinity from parent swi1: netisr 0(100005) > Thread 100007 inheriting affinity from parent swi3: vm(100006) > Thread 100008 inheriting affinity from parent swi4: clock(100007) > Thread 100014 inheriting affinity from parent swi4: clock(100008) > Thread 100017 inheriting affinity from parent swi5: +(100014) > Thread 100018 inheriting affinity from parent swi6: Giant taskq(100017) > Thread 100022 inheriting affinity from parent swi6: task queue(100018) > Thread 100025 inheriting affinity from parent swi2: cambio(100022) > Thread 100026 inheriting affinity from parent irq14: ata0(100025) > Thread 100027 inheriting affinity from parent irq15: ata1(100026) > Thread 100028 inheriting affinity from parent irq19: le0(100027) > Thread 100029 inheriting affinity from parent irq21: pcm0(100028) > Thread 100034 inheriting affinity from parent irq22: ohci0(100029) > Thread 100035 inheriting affinity from parent irq1: atkbd0(100034) > > The result is that every thread in intr kernel process ends up > inheriting the affinity(my favourite part is that both softclock > threads are now forced to fight over the same CPU). =C2=A0I am working on > the following patch that adds a flag to > sched_fork()/sched_fork_thread() that can be passed to force the child > thread to *not* inherit affinity. =C2=A0However, this doesn't address > affinity inheritance from calls to kproc_create(). =C2=A0I suppose that I > could push the flag up into fork1(), but I'd prefer not to. =C2=A0I am > wondering if it even makes sense for affinity to be inherited from a > parent process even for userland processes. > > What are peoples thoughts? =C2=A0Is this the right approach? I think what you found out is very sensitive. However, the patch is not correct as you cannot call cpuset_setthread() with thread_lock held. Also, I don't think we need the flag bloat, to be honest. IMHO, we should choose a default policy for sched_fork{_thread}() and have the opposite case to fix the thread inherited affinity manually. For example, for the shortest patch, we can go with sched_fork{_thread}() functions to directly inherited parent affinity which is ok in the userland case but needs to be fixed in the kthread/kproc case. Hence this is my fix: http://www.freebsd.org/~attilio/cpuset_root.patch (just test-compiled, so if you agree and want to test further, be my guest)= . Maybe we can also add a comment to sched_fork() guys explaining the default policy, but the code seems self-explanatory enough to me. What do you think about it? Thanks, Attilio --=20 Peace can only be achieved by understanding - A. Einstein From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 28 04:45:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 057A2106564A for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 04:45:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rysto32@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 641738FC24 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 04:45:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werm13 with SMTP id m13so420400wer.13 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 20:45:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=W2DUq4Z4po0gP/1y7y+GRUZydWgqTLTA3SnFmV5Q/dI=; b=SmIxwpLrvDQ2y3VuYDQ2Re/Tdxt6OY8fyUKH6W4luOc4R4ZCaYkMbTkGh7R+6Sz7+o WklSpybxupVR37NQdaEfn2aGaFdbtYwUOsGTRRqTkrl8FOUVtIqRBF1bEzufaZdye9qe eFRPhyzMmi1q/nrrG3OWnWcrMJdlfNbdau7Cs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.131.67 with SMTP id l45mr3855716wei.21.1327725943229; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 20:45:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.180.106.129 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 20:45:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 23:45:43 -0500 Message-ID: From: Ryan Stone To: Attilio Rao Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel threads inherit CPU affinity from random sibling X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 04:45:45 -0000 On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 10:41 PM, Attilio Rao wrote: > I think what you found out is very sensitive. > However, the patch is not correct as you cannot call > cpuset_setthread() with thread_lock held. Whoops! I actually discovered that for myself and had already fixed it, but apparently I included an old version of the patch in the email. > Hence this is my fix: > http://www.freebsd.org/~attilio/cpuset_root.patch Oh, I do like this better. I tried something similar myself but abandoned it because I misread how sched_affinity() was implemented by 4BSD(I had gotten the impression that once TSF_AFFINITY is set it could never be cleared). From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 28 13:22:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B497106566C for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:22:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asmrookie@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ww0-f50.google.com (mail-ww0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ACF48FC12 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:22:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbdr11 with SMTP id dr11so2846766wgb.31 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 05:22:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=R2Bl2pP8EvEKIHaRDJrUdTXEIbSIgeVjHxYRXxABTBM=; b=h7EdcPXmT240kuTFPF2xntbpOIRJZX8OVSYWb53mUr+1vhoKhXr+0iEkDSC3xnY7Sh cSxVI2gN/DGFSjVxCuEdeHGY+sSHPVP1svxZQeqbxI4hEVT4kOsJ7Cq8Xm9FDcAGTy50 1lZ77JDuQJk1fXJ239d08YdMmi9TlWr7mcVaI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.99.199 with SMTP id es7mr17097578wib.10.1327756935648; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 05:22:15 -0800 (PST) Sender: asmrookie@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.177.73 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 05:22:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 14:22:15 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: yWPJ0snojx1dlKOxD5AlGyVxc5E Message-ID: From: Attilio Rao To: Ryan Stone , Peter Holm , Florian Smeets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel threads inherit CPU affinity from random sibling X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:22:17 -0000 2012/1/28 Ryan Stone : > On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 10:41 PM, Attilio Rao wrote= : >> I think what you found out is very sensitive. >> However, the patch is not correct as you cannot call >> cpuset_setthread() with thread_lock held. > > Whoops! =C2=A0I actually discovered that for myself and had already fixed > it, but apparently I included an old version of the patch in the > email. > >> Hence this is my fix: >> http://www.freebsd.org/~attilio/cpuset_root.patch > > Oh, I do like this better. =C2=A0I tried something similar myself but > abandoned it because I misread how sched_affinity() was implemented by > 4BSD(I had gotten the impression that once TSF_AFFINITY is set it > could never be cleared). Do you have a pathological test-case for it? Are you going to test the patc= h? Thanks, Attilio --=20 Peace can only be achieved by understanding - A. Einstein From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 28 13:41:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CD911065677; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:41:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asmrookie@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20288FC19; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:40:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werm13 with SMTP id m13so752948wer.13 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 05:40:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=S7Uj3U2SHxqt7mmmeJ4+wqwQxzlwoimnVanVe4nrFHQ=; b=uWLLfuOfugxA+A9c7cjyj7BvLCWV/SgJITEYIybrd+HGm9k7OX2UYPKrfBS1V/XeMz OqCXMFzqRkfR4TQCRO1DXDQ+uBOekovX9Eba3/aujirlb3HCa2hcn+mJ66oaoDeDI5rC NVYBshwrONRVKJBGjr3b/Y5cHtIB//zoblQ2c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.133.82 with SMTP id p60mr4549912wei.59.1327757958014; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 05:39:18 -0800 (PST) Sender: asmrookie@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.177.73 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 05:39:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 14:39:17 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: iR_1uY0lPXOiuHgBXlTX0Nwy2Pw Message-ID: From: Attilio Rao To: Ryan Stone , Peter Holm , Florian Smeets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel threads inherit CPU affinity from random sibling X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:41:00 -0000 2012/1/28 Attilio Rao : > 2012/1/28 Ryan Stone : >> On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 10:41 PM, Attilio Rao wrot= e: >>> I think what you found out is very sensitive. >>> However, the patch is not correct as you cannot call >>> cpuset_setthread() with thread_lock held. >> >> Whoops! =C2=A0I actually discovered that for myself and had already fixe= d >> it, but apparently I included an old version of the patch in the >> email. >> >>> Hence this is my fix: >>> http://www.freebsd.org/~attilio/cpuset_root.patch >> >> Oh, I do like this better. =C2=A0I tried something similar myself but >> abandoned it because I misread how sched_affinity() was implemented by >> 4BSD(I had gotten the impression that once TSF_AFFINITY is set it >> could never be cleared). > > Do you have a pathological test-case for it? Are you going to test the pa= tch? BTW, I've just now updated the patch in order to remove an added white line and s/priority/affinity in comments. Thanks, Attilio --=20 Peace can only be achieved by understanding - A. Einstein