From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 22 03:18:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 435C1106564A for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 03:18:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell0.rawbw.com (shell0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11BD88FC0A for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 03:18:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from eagle.yuri.org (stunnel@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by shell0.rawbw.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q3M3IChm023624 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:18:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Message-ID: <4F937874.7050506@rawbw.com> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:18:12 -0700 From: Yuri User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120316 Thunderbird/10.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Why make(1) doesn't support the internal macro $< ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 03:18:19 -0000 When I run 'make' on the following makefile, $@ gets printed but $< doesn't. Why? Yuri --- Makefile --- file-out: file-in @echo "target=" $@ " src=" $<; touch $@ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 22 03:28:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ED9D106564A for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 03:28:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C52748FC12 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 03:28:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obqv19 with SMTP id v19so16111959obq.13 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:28:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=tX2d64QWFiFLY3G+sZeJzf3L28ntPRBhU65RfzeTOOM=; b=pel/XqcRlu8DdulTWwU2KVc3A8kiKhbShv2uGOXqRltnlmfXeq3dMB8FMmivZLOAao a7YbvSUmVEXpvJdK8CD11ugKB/kk9XsO9a8VCHERUn1O7ZCgGVKdXW568jNJxKhimFUo tFYXHT0V+Dk2UhqTuZWPs2SeGqtr+tp7fZHNKVKVSm9ce7jmsKONTnSZc/4aIZU29do6 l7dVomrZCIJTPfJgf7+zyjE24Tp+DYMAftjBDkMj4grZr5lfexfkMUAl4CbhRwMeW7Ew Sr9yCfLcUKEsWpj98nsUIs9Cliwf2fJN+fnz+awwHcLzKJb805ISpk9PHGYRuKrQ4mby pdIw== Received: by 10.60.0.226 with SMTP id 2mr16281478oeh.18.1335065295474; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.5] (dpc691939029.direcpc.com. [69.19.39.29]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b6sm11681603obe.12.2012.04.21.20.28.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Garrett Cooper In-Reply-To: <4F937874.7050506@rawbw.com> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:27:55 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <636B7510-BBE3-4147-B6F4-04F47438858A@gmail.com> References: <4F937874.7050506@rawbw.com> To: Yuri X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Why make(1) doesn't support the internal macro $< ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 03:28:16 -0000 On Apr 21, 2012, at 8:18 PM, Yuri wrote: > When I run 'make' on the following makefile, $@ gets printed but $< = doesn't. >=20 > Why? >=20 > Yuri >=20 >=20 > --- Makefile --- > file-out: file-in > @echo "target=3D" $@ " src=3D" $<; touch $@ You want `$>`... .IMPSRC is something else=85 Cheers, -Garrett= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 22 09:22:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43E87106566B for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 09:22:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scdbackup@gmx.net) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AB08F8FC14 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 09:22:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 22 Apr 2012 09:22:19 -0000 Received: from 165.126.46.212.adsl.ncore.de (HELO 192.168.2.69) [212.46.126.165] by mail.gmx.net (mp072) with SMTP; 22 Apr 2012 11:22:19 +0200 X-Authenticated: #2145628 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/E9UYKZrzEcfHUAjKyhNo+p2Eu0TVJyvw9tjcTvt yY9fPhZd6KavFV Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:23:05 +0200 From: "Thomas Schmitt" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <99345376512413@192.168.2.69> X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl Subject: Re: what's wrong with cd9660 fs X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 09:22:28 -0000 Hi, > for now i add -udf when using mkisofs and mount_udf reads fine. anyway i > would be happy to see fully working ISO filesystem, I am not a FreeBSD hacker but just lurking here for the topics of ISO 9660 and SCSI command transport to DVD burners. So i lack the knowledge to develop a patch. Nevertheless i am trying to understand how FreeBSD interprets the filesystem images which are produced by my software too. Meanwhile i learned that the UDF implementation in fs/udf does not provide a straightforward example for a multi-extent implementation in fs/cd9600. The udf vnodes have a 1:1 relation to ECMA-167 File Entries which have a 1:N relation to ECMA-167 Allocation Descriptors which describe the extents. For ISO 9660 one would need to submit multiple ECMA-119 Directory Records to the creator of a vnode. The directory records are stored in a continuous sequence in the image. A bit in their Flags field indicates whether there is another directory record of the same file following. In FreeBSD this would be a set of struct iso_directory_record. Only the fields iso_directory_record.extent, iso_directory_record.size, and iso_directory_record.flags are supposed to vary within the set. Bit 7 of iso_directory_record.flags is 1 if another record with the next extent of the same file follows. (ECMA-119 9.1.6 File Flags) struct iso_node would need to store the set of .extent and .size values instead of its components iso_node.iso_extent and iso_node.i_size. Then one could let cd9660_bmap() iterate over the set of extents like it is done by udf_bmap_internal(). The vnode is created in cd9660_vget_internal(), which gets called in cd9660_vfsops.c and in cd9660_lookup.c. The occasions in cd9660_vfsops.c submit directories and thus are not prone to multi-extent (ECMA-119 6.3 "Each directory shall be recorded as a file in a single Extent"). So the place to read multiple iso_directory_record before calling cd9660_vget_internal() seems to be in cd9660_lookup(): /* * Check for a name match. */ Well, here i got stopped for now by my lack of FreeBSD knowledge. > ISO filesystem, which is nearly optimal for read only usage. It has a few limitations. E.g. images cannot have more than 8 TiB size. But together with Rock Ridge it makes a fine backup filesystem, and even the most future-ish optical media plans to not yet reach the size limit. Have a nice day :) Thomas From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 22 11:54:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8A83106566B for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:54:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shen.elf@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49AEA8FC0C for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:54:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhgm50 with SMTP id m50so6883664yhg.13 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 04:54:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=nwZeb2Sa9Bw4UJ7n0jlwwHVpVpupeaAUIm7v+2K61ZM=; b=gEpw4h8Uzh6C0Ec5nJ7kmi6UuHCoCvLoDku75L2XuL3hJPxVF+kKEzntA4Abj7CCu2 p93IcuVmZ9IrajSoiif6fpvnzgttWlJzdhzUnG2x1yyQk9uI7ElZHPpQyPvQqhZ3Zzua vL7NTryi9ofQZ1eBsdQZrWaK835xIzDgbEXve3GswIu1hw5UT+vgt4Az16CilbbVTnQ9 5e2xOvokbgKx5o66RF5YR9fA+c5l6yVZ1dZHMuAXC5DYQ+Uj60a3QzVnpKiAJA8A/wSO KA4PTVSPJRIN7ir/P+CDLmVtPxZmHtUj527WgC83FMwyARhy9IuqbPTiWUUSdesiIsIS poRQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.181.39 with SMTP id k27mr11830734yhm.52.1335095652128; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 04:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.29.199 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 04:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 19:54:12 +0800 Message-ID: From: Yanhui Shen To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: CPU usage so high, fread() on the FILE wrapped by libfetch's fetchXGetURL() X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:54:18 -0000 Hi, I found the CPU usage is pretty high while running 'pkg update', 'pkg install [fooapp]'. Seems it was caused by fread() on the FILE wrapped by libfetch's fetchXGetURL() , maybe fetch_read() in common.c. Here is a simple test code: http://pastebin.com/2sP1f4Wv I want to know whether it is a bug, or misuse of libfetch API, or any other matter? Run and look about its CPU usage (HTTP url has this issue, FTP url has not): % ./a.out http://mirrors.163.com/FreeBSD/ISO-IMAGES-amd64/8.3/FreeBSD-8.3-RELEASE-amd64-bootonly.iso Env: % uname -a FreeBSD ThinkPad 9.0-STABLE FreeBSD 9.0-STABLE #1: Tue Apr 10 12:46:50 CST 2012 shen@ThinkPad:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/ThinkPad amd64 -- Best regards, Yanhui Shen From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 22 12:07:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5E41065672 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 12:07:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3B568FC08 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 12:07:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds12 with SMTP id ds12so10589477wgb.31 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 05:07:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer; bh=TZVMbccYworZ0aWekQ+NpX8lCivN9Nu3n4h/bJfwcmk=; b=YQivLztlrhGD6WoiTEMVEA21Xubaj5dDDwbvMeFJ/BW9QpLuyJVvexYC3iPeR0bv90 BqOuHfJm5C/P71AbCnXP0/qxGp4xAxuIf0weSKD2uYVtC2N/YLW4AQMZU5fYIEtBf0VE pj4g7wosezDONZu0+JfNxiqzXZlr+wXQExag/76b2CDNK7yccZVcyyjluvb8PJmCCw8M xp/13irk2et57XwfTb0fby++eVuvOR5yOBG6jVA+BfPvetRJfgQrpHReABr++IpxuLi/ j5Pm8NRV7qbqoKtB98q+Qg+QD8VqSRurXAU06ODFtkwIKWyTzkVZdnE3KGM4BqXd67ZU eLyA== Received: by 10.180.103.35 with SMTP id ft3mr12868135wib.0.1335096464113; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 05:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b3sm14081751wib.4.2012.04.22.05.07.41 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 22 Apr 2012 05:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120422.120742.857.2@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:07:42 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: service causes ps errors in chroot X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 12:07:45 -0000 When I use '/usr/sbin/service' in chroot, it outputs:=0D=0Aps: empty file: = Invalid argument=0D=0A OR=0D=0Aps: cannot read IdlePTD=0D=0A=0D=0ABut it = does work.=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ADomagoj Smol=E8i=E6 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 22 13:41:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4526B106566C; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 13:41:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthewstory@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vx0-f182.google.com (mail-vx0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CECF98FC08; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 13:41:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcmm1 with SMTP id m1so10223249vcm.13 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 06:41:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=FovmoWrBEAYLOQjsw2j0LAwzCPRdwuk+QakMrcbbHW0=; b=A5BssT5Gqfj3OdhwpXlS4t8aSqmNlH2h6pIgWvfNRPZCHJxKSPo6stgl0on6XI6pfA mPryJuD5sve4Vm8kXYbBn1auM3dH9WMd6ra+JYpDQZPysciOl0yX2QKMkFd5FdmVoWhx BH9zBhBV2Hkr0e00hmxmSHfafCe+WOp8g7Xpd9X33X+aHz3uOVLkoXoV8FVn/ybbdc2K r/1qM1oJmHp3duJM11OsrWu/C2kQjOdpQbqMkaOfCO6fMk2dDSg6OU4/3Tb88out9iTM CFLFtFNt/cqOG9i1Up4vo9e44G17x3/ujHTm6WcQzgYwwUQAip/NV2iziUyCZi9XjLAN DXOw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.38.167 with SMTP id h7mr7632668vdk.109.1335102115358; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 06:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.185.167 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 06:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.185.167 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 06:41:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4F8E0163.9030009@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 09:41:55 -0400 Message-ID: From: Matthew Story To: Ben Fiedler Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Gabor Kovesdan Subject: Re: Status of BSD Diff replacement? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 13:41:57 -0000 On Apr 21, 2012 4:15 PM, "Ben Fiedler" wrote: > > http://www.public.asu.edu/~bfiedler/bsdtextproc.tar.gz > > Here's a tar.gz of my project file: I did not include the diff/ directory, but instead gabor_diff/ , as that's where the latest changes are. iirc the original diff/ in my project was taken from the source for Gabor's 'bsdiff' under the ports tree, but then after a few weeks I discovered he had made newer changes to the code under perforce, so I based gabor_diff/ off of that. Sorry if this is all confusing :) > > -Ben Thanks a lot Ben. > > > > On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Matthew Story wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Ben Fiedler wrote: >>> >>> Gabor, >>> >>> I made a branch off of your perforce diff code in my work on the diff tool: From my understanding you started those modifications from OpenBSD's diff in 2008, so Matthew's assertion that "our incomplete BSD diff is OpenBSD diff + improvements" is 100% correct. I also ported and started work on sdiff and diff3 from OpenBSD, but made minimal headway on each. >>> >>> The red items on the table here lists the needed argument support to match GNU grep: http://wiki.freebsd.org/SOC2010BenFiedler#diff >> >> >> Awesome, thanks for that link. >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Though there's only a few left, they are not trivial by any means. >>> >>> -Ben >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 4:48 PM, Gabor Kovesdan wrote: >>>> >>>> On 2012.04.17. 23:03, Matthew Story wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Just wondering what the current status is on a BSD diff replacement. The IdeasPage suggests that a goodly amount of work was done on this for GSoC 2010 ( http://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage#BSD-licensed_Text-Processing_Tools), but the GPLinBase page says it's unowned and suggests replacement with OpenBSD diff (http://wiki.freebsd.org/GPLinBase). >>>> >>>> Unless OpenBSD folks have changed or developed something, our incomplete BSD diff is OpenBSD diff + improvements. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Wondering how much is outstanding on this, and where to start reading to catch up on what's been done? >>>> >>>> >>>> I worked a bit on that in 2008 along with grep and sort but these got more priorities so lots of features are still missing. Then Ben Fiedler also worked on it in 2010 but I don't exactly know what he accomplished and whether he took my code or chose another way. So for someone who wants to work on it, first it should be checked what's done, maybe merge my version and Ben's version, >> >> >> just to verify, these are the correct 2 branches to look at: >> >> http://p4web.freebsd.org/@md=d&cd=//depot/projects/soc2008/&c=iZC@//depot/projects/soc2008/gabor_textproc/?ac=83 >> http://p4web.freebsd.org/@md=d&cd=//depot/projects/soc2010/&c=QTP@//depot/projects/soc2010/bsdtextproc/?ac=83 >> >> it looks like gabor_diff in soc2010 is based off the soc2008 work. >> >> Is there anyway either of you could provide me with an archive of the working tree for these 2 perforce repos? or make it available in a branch on svn.freebsd.org? I'd like to look into this more, but after reading through the P4Web docs, trying to gain anonymous read-only access through p4 itself, and then reading: >> >> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2007-August/156862.html >> >> it seems there's no real way to accommodate this sort of thing at current. >> >>>> >>>> check whether OpenBSD added something new or fixed somethings and then implement missing features and do lots of testing to ensure compatibility with GNU diff. And performance tests and improvements if necessary. >> >> >> Since 2008/2010 the OpenBSD change logs referencing diff(1) sdiff(1) and diff(3) are: >> >> 4.9 >> Use scandir(3) instead of getdirentries(2) in diff(1). Call to getdirentries(2) should be avoided outside of libc >> 4.8 >> Many diff(1) improvements. >> Make diff(1) return 2 on error. >> 4.6 >> Fix file descriptor leaks in sdiff(1) when diffing regular files. >> >> I think the many diff(1) improvements is when ray started maintaining diff (not millert), so perhaps I can ping him as well if I make any headway on this. >> >>>> >>>> >>>> I work on grep/regex related things and recently Oleg Moskalenko took over my incomplete BSD sort code but noone is working on BSD diff so any contribution is very welcome. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Gabor >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> regards, >> matt > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 22 17:10:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64FC01065674 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 17:10:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scdbackup@gmx.net) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.23]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C5AA48FC16 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 17:10:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 22 Apr 2012 17:10:27 -0000 Received: from 165.126.46.212.adsl.ncore.de (HELO 192.168.2.69) [212.46.126.165] by mail.gmx.net (mp039) with SMTP; 22 Apr 2012 19:10:27 +0200 X-Authenticated: #2145628 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX199bRlpfm99VXG/Q1ZW06xGmaMA/8UowfeypMyBgN 5kq6ojAbjhWleQ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 19:11:13 +0200 From: "Thomas Schmitt" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <99307124515092@192.168.2.69> X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl Subject: Re: what's wrong with cd9660 fs X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 17:10:35 -0000 Hi, there are problems in fs/cd9660 concerning multi-session, if the new session was written to addresses above 4 GiB. $ fetch https://dev.haiku-os.org/raw-attachment/ticket/8473/reloc_dir.iso.bz2 $ bunzip2 reloc_dir.iso.bz2 # mdconfig -a -t vnode -f reloc_dir.iso md1 # mount_cd9660 /dev/md1 /mnt # find /mnt /mnt # ls -ld /mnt -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 0 Jan 1 1970 /mnt It must be related to Rock Ridge interpretation: # umount /mnt # mount_cd9660 -r /dev/md1 /mnt # find /mnt /mnt /mnt/deep_dir /mnt/deep_dir/1 /mnt/deep_dir/1/2 ... /mnt/7/file_7_1 # ls -ld /mnt dr-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 2048 Apr 16 14:12 /mnt The image shows no visible problems with Linux kernels. The missing S_IFDIR property should get set by cd9660_rrip_attr() while cd9660_rrip_loop() iterates over the SUSP entries of ithe directory record. I see in /var/log/messages these two messages for each time i mount without option -r: Apr 22 14:11:39 freebsd1 kernel: cd9660: RockRidge Extension Apr 22 14:11:39 freebsd1 kernel: RRIP without PX field? My first candidate for the cause would be some 32 bit bottleneck in the computation of byte addresses of directory records. All the directory records which are pointed to by the PVDs of the images are stored above 4 GiB. (The PVDs are at block 16.) E.g. this gesture in cd9660_vfsops.c looks prone to rollover at 1 TiB (imp->im_bshift == 11 , DEV_BSHIFT == 9, sizeof(int) == 4) int lbn, off; [...] error = bread(imp->im_devvp, lbn << (imp->im_bshift - DEV_BSHIFT), imp->logical_block_size, NOCRED, &bp); This is a computation from 2 KiB block address to 512 byte block address. A similar lapse with byte addresses would already rollover at 4 GiB. Have a nice day :) Thomas From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 22 21:21:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABA33106564A; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 21:21:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marius@alchemy.franken.de) Received: from alchemy.franken.de (alchemy.franken.de [194.94.249.214]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28ADB8FC12; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 21:21:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from alchemy.franken.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alchemy.franken.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/ALCHEMY.FRANKEN.DE) with ESMTP id q3MLL2S4067134; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 23:21:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marius@alchemy.franken.de) Received: (from marius@localhost) by alchemy.franken.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id q3MLL2fr067133; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 23:21:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marius) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 23:21:02 +0200 From: Marius Strobl To: Andriy Gapon Message-ID: <20120422212102.GA66855@alchemy.franken.de> References: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 21:21:03 -0000 On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 06:37:54PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > > I would like to ask for a review and/or testing of the following three patches: > http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/zfsboot.patches.diff > > These patches add support for booting from an arbitrary filesystem of any > detected ZFS pool. A filesystem could be selected in zfsboot and thus will > affectfrom where zfsloader would be loaded. zfsboot passes information about > the boot pool and filesystem to zfsloader, which uses those for loaddev and > default value of currdev. A different pool+filesystem could be selected in > zfsloader for booting kernel. Also if vfs.root.mountfrom is not explicitly set > and is not derived from fstab, then it gets set to the selected boot filesystem. > > This should could be used as a foundation for the support of Solaris-like boot > environment selection. I believe that other people have already developed > scripts utilizing ZFS capabilities to provide other aspects of management of > boot environments. > > I am particularly interested in reviews of my attempt to make ZFS boot support > arch-independent. The arches, of course, would have to add some code to make > use of that support. Currently I only enabled it for x86. > I can't say much about these patches as a whole as they are rather big and I'm not aware of all the details of ZFS. However, one bit that makes the current implementation x86-specific is zfs_dev_init(). If you could move it to the MD part in the course of these patches that would be great. If you could also take the second patch in PR 165025 into account, which I plan to commit once the issue with the current ofw_disk.c are properly solved, that would be great. Marius From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 23 00:51:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C711106564A for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 00:51:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell0.rawbw.com (shell0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D11CC8FC0A for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 00:51:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from eagle.yuri.org (stunnel@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by shell0.rawbw.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q3N0pm2O012281; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 17:51:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Message-ID: <4F94A7A4.5080203@rawbw.com> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 17:51:48 -0700 From: Yuri User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120316 Thunderbird/10.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Can't unload snd_uaudio: it hangs in D+ state X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 00:51:51 -0000 I was debugging Logitech C910 webcam. 1. 'kldload snd_uaudio' while camera was attached 2. ran webcamd, which worked 3. stopped webcamd 4. 'kldunload snd_uaudio' while the camera is still attached => hanged in D+ 5. 'kldstat' also hangs in D+ I didn't really use usound, just loaded the module. What is wrong with snd_uaudio? Yuri From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 23 05:55:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E30E1106566B for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 05:55:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe07.c2i.net [212.247.154.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710978FC20 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 05:55:53 +0000 (UTC) X-T2-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, BAYES_50 Received: from [176.74.212.201] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop002.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe07.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPA id 265715873; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 07:55:50 +0200 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 07:54:49 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.3-PRERELEASE; KDE/4.4.5; amd64; ; ) References: <4F94A7A4.5080203@rawbw.com> In-Reply-To: <4F94A7A4.5080203@rawbw.com> X-Face: 'mmZ:T{)),Oru^0c+/}w'`gU1$ubmG?lp!=R4Wy\ELYo2)@'UZ24N@d2+AyewRX}mAm; Yp |U[@, _z/([?1bCfM{_"B<.J>mICJCHAzzGHI{y7{%JVz%R~yJHIji`y>Y}k1C4TfysrsUI -%GU9V5]iUZF&nRn9mJ'?&>O MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201204230754.49422.hselasky@c2i.net> Cc: Yuri Subject: Re: Can't unload snd_uaudio: it hangs in D+ state X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 05:55:54 -0000 On Monday 23 April 2012 02:51:48 Yuri wrote: > I was debugging Logitech C910 webcam. > 1. 'kldload snd_uaudio' while camera was attached > 2. ran webcamd, which worked > 3. stopped webcamd > 4. 'kldunload snd_uaudio' while the camera is still attached => hanged in > D+ 5. 'kldstat' also hangs in D+ > I didn't really use usound, just loaded the module. > > What is wrong with snd_uaudio? Hi, If it says in dmesg that an application is using a device, that is a problem with the PCM layer, that doesn't support detach of devices if they are in use. --HPS From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 23 06:23:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F131A106566C; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 06:23:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ae@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail.kirov.so-ups.ru (ns.kirov.so-ups.ru [178.74.170.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F6B38FC08; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 06:23:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kas30pipe.localhost (localhost.kirov.so-ups.ru [127.0.0.1]) by mail.kirov.so-ups.ru (Postfix) with SMTP id 23660B801B; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 10:23:48 +0400 (MSK) Received: from kirov.so-ups.ru (unknown [172.21.81.1]) by mail.kirov.so-ups.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D8F8B8008; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 10:23:48 +0400 (MSK) Received: by ns.kirov.so-ups.ru (Postfix, from userid 1010) id 14C7FBA020; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 10:23:48 +0400 (MSK) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (elsukov.kirov.oduur.so [10.118.3.52]) by ns.kirov.so-ups.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1CF9BA00C; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 10:23:47 +0400 (MSK) Message-ID: <4F94F56E.1010501@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 10:23:42 +0400 From: "Andrey V. Elsukov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5 (FreeBSD/20051231) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marius Strobl References: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> <20120422212102.GA66855@alchemy.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <20120422212102.GA66855@alchemy.franken.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigC7029BA0145B0E0BC6B4FC9D" X-SpamTest-Version: SMTP-Filter Version 3.0.0 [0284], KAS30/Release X-SpamTest-Info: Not protected Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Andriy Gapon Subject: Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 06:23:55 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigC7029BA0145B0E0BC6B4FC9D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 23.04.2012 1:21, Marius Strobl wrote: > I can't say much about these patches as a whole as they are rather > big and I'm not aware of all the details of ZFS. However, one bit that > makes the current implementation x86-specific is zfs_dev_init(). If > you could move it to the MD part in the course of these patches that > would be great. If you could also take the second patch in PR 165025 > into account, which I plan to commit once the issue with the current > ofw_disk.c are properly solved, that would be great. I also have some WIP related to moving partition table handling into MD p= art. You can look here: http://people.freebsd.org/~ae/sys_boot.diff This patch have one problem, there is no way to determine disk size and i'm thinking about adding ioctl(DIOCGMEDIASIZE) to the "disk" devsw. --=20 WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov --------------enigC7029BA0145B0E0BC6B4FC9D Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPlPVzAAoJEAHF6gQQyKF6pzMH/AmB7G4BFMM9jYW8TMIexfOX 7xPLKbgFuIHeMcXyOjZseDEdTrLcC7DsCyS/euT7ScvdcTtImt9mpxSYznRgWZ2Y h+pD2zH1UT3AxPKwMvyIbt54E91W/2m7tDmMskWuFtyWrYlOKzacZlr7QT+ylfqd IotkgPSs1nyEo8+blzEfj7sjLHFVApeclYIeZT8GUQ0iVlHPyQJZ3TPSHGP50ozj VvVT07PZdcf/t73sa8xUdV5sIoN3zV211PNKMuMFvB9DdcP9ZBbiOpYFoUBtLTsa WomrpDKZ8OZr5jbJx7411BnfwgbJzyuxbPune1E1j8ver8rm2YYhdEwAHmXtzr4= =VC6q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigC7029BA0145B0E0BC6B4FC9D-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 23 06:36:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E99C2106564A for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 06:36:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrey@zonov.org) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66CAA8FC15 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 06:36:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbbgm6 with SMTP id gm6so5322822lbb.13 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 23:36:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=vcjQZitpZMyOj519MSsywIA+lZzVkI6JR1pUNobxEOs=; b=c+HeDx/X7V0EnP8s2LWuUsdrdg6IFOqVzAUZ2eij7Db+VX7rf6luPBLuyJxyyA4z0I a4yoDkPRGUIyZBdNE6tlCz7N4WWvFh2VZE2alUFv4XMBhSwfWwQj8pmE8wtAMuQIbS0O QVRH+VQu59LVSFZgpCaqbNNyKyN+VNiOlK8mjYOMM/28iPXjMveg+aYxN0bKvTQ5vhaJ azVBZAGjcKFs54h71Hejlm0acynmLY0imr+lZKQKim7id+PfuvB54tG4Xe/lDBbUMU7A /goCQSkCGgn1hDRcKbdzt+ESz8/pAkaoTLUBGpxHLybOl+9jdBoW2M7XVn2OtFyOg6JT td+Q== Received: by 10.152.112.97 with SMTP id ip1mr899949lab.31.1335162985208; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 23:36:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zont-osx.local (ppp95-165-137-153.pppoe.spdop.ru. [95.165.137.153]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id pb13sm14613546lab.16.2012.04.22.23.36.24 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 22 Apr 2012 23:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F94F867.50703@zonov.org> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 10:36:23 +0400 From: Andrey Zonov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rank1seeker@gmail.com References: <20120422.120742.857.2@DOMY-PC> In-Reply-To: <20120422.120742.857.2@DOMY-PC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk20bYHYD6M43FnLPdJ3pU0WOA7IKGXvrqZt18K73PQ4IvNnWxppMJgs4RcPihHG+QPRIcQ Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: service causes ps errors in chroot X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 06:36:27 -0000 On 4/22/12 4:07 PM, rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote: > When I use '/usr/sbin/service' in chroot, it outputs: > ps: empty file: Invalid argument > OR > ps: cannot read IdlePTD > > But it does work. > I think you need devfs in your chroot. Try this: mount -t devfs devfs /path/to/chroot/dev -- Andrey Zonov From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 23 06:59:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9399F106564A for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 06:59:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell0.rawbw.com (shell0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61FCB8FC0C for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 06:59:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from eagle.yuri.org (stunnel@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by shell0.rawbw.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q3N6xMix075512; Sun, 22 Apr 2012 23:59:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Message-ID: <4F94FDCA.6050003@rawbw.com> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 23:59:22 -0700 From: Yuri User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120316 Thunderbird/10.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hans Petter Selasky References: <4F94A7A4.5080203@rawbw.com> <201204230754.49422.hselasky@c2i.net> In-Reply-To: <201204230754.49422.hselasky@c2i.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can't unload snd_uaudio: it hangs in D+ state X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 06:59:34 -0000 On 04/22/2012 22:54, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > If it says in dmesg that an application is using a device, that is a problem > with the PCM layer, that doesn't support detach of devices if they are in use. Other snd_xxx.ko can't be unloaded when in use, ex: # kldunload snd_es137x.ko kldunload: can't unload file: Device busy Something is different with snd_usound.ko Yuri From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 23 18:47:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81685106564A for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 18:47:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jean-sebastien.pedron@dumbbell.fr) Received: from mail.made4.biz (unknown [IPv6:2001:41d0:1:7018::1:3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FF778FC1A for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 18:47:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [2a01:e35:8b50:830:290:f5ff:fe9d:b78c] (helo=magellan.dumbbell.fr) by mail.made4.biz with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SMOI7-000NLA-HG for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:47:16 +0200 Message-ID: <4F95A3B3.9000209@dumbbell.fr> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:47:15 +0200 From: =?windows-1252?Q?Jean-S=E9bastien_P=E9dron?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120419 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4F937874.7050506@rawbw.com> <636B7510-BBE3-4147-B6F4-04F47438858A@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <636B7510-BBE3-4147-B6F4-04F47438858A@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: Why make(1) doesn't support the internal macro $< ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 18:47:17 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 22.04.2012 05:27, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Apr 21, 2012, at 8:18 PM, Yuri wrote: > >> When I run 'make' on the following makefile, $@ gets printed but >> $< doesn't. > > You want `$>`... .IMPSRC is something else… If the OP is used to GNU make, there's a difference: o $> in our make evaluates to all prerequisites o $< in GNU make evaluates to the first prerequisite only - -- Jean-Sébastien Pédron -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk+Vo7MACgkQa+xGJsFYOlNmVQCeNjHKRKq9bBQr1e3MEuPe578k 9NMAnipvdpN26H9AgpOeClusa1bJ3tOB =13wY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 23 19:07:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D799E106567C; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:07:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A956A8FC25; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:07:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 050A2B96D; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:07:14 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:22:56 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p13; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201204231422.56916.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:07:14 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Attilio Rao , FreeBSD Current , Arnaud Lacombe Subject: Re: Disabling an arbitrary device X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:07:14 -0000 On Friday, April 20, 2012 8:50:07 pm Attilio Rao wrote: > Il 20 aprile 2012 19:18, Arnaud Lacombe ha scritto: > > Hi, > > > > On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> I will be bringing up an old thread there, but it would seem the > >> situation did not evolve in the past 9 years. I have a machine running > >> 7.1 whose UHCI controller is generating some interrupt storm: > >> > >> # vmstat -i > >> interrupt total rate > >> irq4: sio0 1328 2 > >> irq19: uhci1+ 63514509 96380 > >> [...] > >> > >> generating useless load on one CPU: > >> > >> # top -SH > >> last pid: 5223; load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 up 0+00:17:21 13:10:35 > >> 117 processes: 14 running, 79 sleeping, 24 waiting > >> CPU: 0.2% user, 0.0% nice, 0.2% system, 6.6% interrupt, 93.0% idle > >> Mem: 33M Active, 9348K Inact, 67M Wired, 400K Cache, 29M Buf, 2892M Free > >> [...] > >> 57 root -64 - 0K 8K CPU0 0 11:59 86.57% irq19: uhci1+ > >> > >> I thought I could use an hint to forbid uhci(4) attachment, ala: > >> > >> hint.uhci.0.disabled="1" > >> hint.uhci.1.disabled="1" > >> > >> in /boot/loader.conf. However, it would seem that what should be > >> usable with any arbitrary devices, ie. be an integral part of > >> device(9), has to be hardcoded in every driver, sad. > >> > > as for the usual "if you're not happy, please provide a patch": > > > > https://github.com/lacombar/freebsd/commit/30786d09b0cb441890cdc749ee5243238e81d2d8 > > I think a generalized kludge should really belong to > device_probe_child() rather than device_add_child_ordered(). eadler@ has a patch that is a better workaround, (it marks the device disabled after probe but before attach is called). This patch above only disables manually added devices that are added by name, so it wouldn't work for PCI devices (e.g. the uhci devices). -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 23 19:07:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0343106564A; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:07:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C79128FC18; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:07:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3043FB999; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:07:15 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:28:49 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p13; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <20120421.164328.068.1@DOMY-PC> In-Reply-To: <20120421.164328.068.1@DOMY-PC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201204231428.49712.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Cc: rank1seeker@gmail.com, dougb@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Forgotten debuging flags in 9.0 RELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:07:16 -0000 On Saturday, April 21, 2012 12:43:28 pm rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote: > Whenever I run: > # make distribution > > I also get: > + ln -s ../var/named/etc/namedb /usr/TZONE/etc/namedb > + ln -s mail/aliases /usr/TZONE/etc/aliases > > Looks like someone forgot to turn off/remove debuging flags(set -x), before building 9.0 RELEASE Actually, those have been there for at least 7 years. The namedb one was first added in r136242, and the mail one is older than that. > /usr/src/etc/Makefile: > ---- > @if [ ! -e ${DESTDIR}/etc/namedb ]; then \ > set -x; \ > ln -s ../var/named/etc/namedb ${DESTDIR}/etc/namedb; \ > fi > ---- > @if [ -d ${DESTDIR}/etc/mail -a -f ${DESTDIR}/etc/mail/aliases -a \ > ! -f ${DESTDIR}/etc/aliases ]; then \ > set -x; \ > ln -s mail/aliases ${DESTDIR}/etc/aliases; \ > fi > ---- -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 24 09:37:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9014F1065680 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:37:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simon@comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua) Received: from comsys.kpi.ua (comsys.kpi.ua [77.47.192.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FD2A8FC17 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:37:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pm513-1.comsys.kpi.ua ([10.18.52.101] helo=pm513-1.comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua) by comsys.kpi.ua with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1SMcBJ-0001MJ-PC; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:37:09 +0300 Received: by pm513-1.comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (Postfix, from userid 1001) id C42761CC31; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:37:09 +0300 (EEST) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:37:09 +0300 From: Andrey Simonenko To: Sebastian Huber Message-ID: <20120424093709.GA9857@pm513-1.comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua> References: <4F8C1082.3020801@embedded-brains.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F8C1082.3020801@embedded-brains.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Authenticated-User: simon@comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua X-Authenticator: plain X-Sender-Verify: SUCCEEDED (sender exists & accepts mail) X-Exim-Version: 4.63 (build at 28-Apr-2011 07:11:12) X-Date: 2012-04-24 12:37:09 X-Connected-IP: 10.18.52.101:23220 X-Message-Linecount: 154 X-Body-Linecount: 139 X-Message-Size: 4336 X-Body-Size: 3692 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: XDR Library and Short Enums X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:37:12 -0000 On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 02:28:50PM +0200, Sebastian Huber wrote: > Hi, > > the XDR library implementation of xdr_enum() is currently: > > /* > * XDR enumerations > */ > bool_t > xdr_enum(XDR *xdrs, enum_t *ep) > { > enum sizecheck { SIZEVAL }; /* used to find the size of an enum */ > > /* > * enums are treated as ints > */ > /* LINTED */ if (sizeof (enum sizecheck) == sizeof (long)) { > return (xdr_long(xdrs, (long *)(void *)ep)); > } else /* LINTED */ if (sizeof (enum sizecheck) == sizeof (int)) { > return (xdr_int(xdrs, (int *)(void *)ep)); > } else /* LINTED */ if (sizeof (enum sizecheck) == sizeof (short)) { > return (xdr_short(xdrs, (short *)(void *)ep)); > } else { > return (FALSE); > } > } > > The enum_t is defined as: > > typedef int32_t enum_t; > > This is problematic with short enums (variable sized enums). I case of short > enums sizeof (enum sizecheck) would be 1. The ARM EABI lets you a choice > between two alternatives described in the document issued by ARM. See also > section 7.1.3 "Enumerated Types" > > http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.ihi0042d/IHI0042D_aapcs.pdf > > How would you implement and use the XDR library with short enums? The > xdr_enum() can be easily changed to: > > /* > * XDR enumerations > */ > bool_t > xdr_enum(XDR *xdrs, enum_t *ep) > { > /* > * enums are treated as ints > */ > /* LINTED */ if (sizeof (enum_t) == sizeof (long)) { > return (xdr_long(xdrs, (long *)(void *)ep)); > } else /* LINTED */ if (sizeof (enum_t) == sizeof (int)) { > return (xdr_int(xdrs, (int *)(void *)ep)); > } else /* LINTED */ if (sizeof (enum_t) == sizeof (short)) { > return (xdr_short(xdrs, (short *)(void *)ep)); > } else { > return (FALSE); > } > } > > The problem is in the XDR library usage. An example is this (rpc_msg.h): > > enum msg_type { > CALL=0, > REPLY=1 > }; > > How would you fix this? What about > > enum msg_type { > CALL=0, > REPLY=1, > _MSG_TYPE_INVALID = 0xffffffff > }; > RFC1832 and RFC4506 specify enumerations: Enumerations have the same representation as signed integers. Enumerations are handy for describing subsets of the integers. and specify signed integers: An XDR signed integer is a 32-bit datum that encodes an integer in the range [-2147483648,2147483647]. Can somebody explain why xdr_enum() implementation has such logic that does not correspond to the description of XDR enumeration type in the above mentioned RFCs? Another question. xdr_long() translates C 'long' integers to their external representation. Actually it converts C 'long' integer to uint32_t, obviously such conversion is incorrect. Is is expected that the given value of 'long' type in xdr_long() will fit to uint32_t type and is not negative? Example: ------------------------------------------------------------------- #include #include #include #include #define BUF_SIZE 1024 int main(void) { char buf[BUF_SIZE] = {}; XDR xdrs1, xdrs2; long x1, x2, y1, y2; xdrmem_create(&xdrs1, buf, sizeof(buf), XDR_ENCODE); xdrmem_create(&xdrs2, buf, sizeof(buf), XDR_DECODE); x1 = 0x0123456789abcdefL; x2 = -1; if (xdr_long(&xdrs1, &x1) == FALSE || xdr_long(&xdrs1, &x2) == FALSE) err(1, "xdr_long(xdrs1)"); if (xdr_long(&xdrs2, &y1) == FALSE || xdr_long(&xdrs2, &y2) == FALSE) err(1, "xdr_long(xdrs2)"); printf("x1 = 0x%016lx\ny1 = 0x%016lx\n", x1, y1); printf("x2 = %ld\ny2 = %ld\n", x2, y2); return (0); } ------------------------------------------------------------------- Running it on amd64: x1 = 0x0123456789abcdef y1 = 0x0000000089abcdef x2 = -1 y2 = 4294967295 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 24 17:19:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45761106566C for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 17:19:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lidl@hydra.pix.net) Received: from hydra.pix.net (hydra.pix.net [IPv6:2001:470:e254::3c]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 152BC8FC12 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 17:19:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hydra.pix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hydra.pix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q3OHJBY4099552 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:19:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lidl@hydra.pix.net) X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.1 at mail.pix.net Received: (from lidl@localhost) by hydra.pix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id q3OHJAEC099551 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:19:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lidl) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:19:10 -0400 From: Kurt Lidl To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120424171909.GA99220@pix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: criteria for patch inclusion in patch release? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 17:19:12 -0000 What determines the patch worthiness of particular fixes that have gone into a the source tree for inclusion into the next patch release of a given -RELEASE branch? As an example, there are two patches that improve life for those of us who use fxp ethernet adaptors (r233158, r233585). Both of these came out after the branch of 8.3-RELEASE, I believe. Neither of these patches are in 8.3-STABLE, as far as I can tell. I think they ought to be in at least 8-STABLE or 9-STABLE, based on their change dates and the "MFC after: 1 week"/"MFC after: 2 weeks" notations in the SVN entries. In my ideal world, these two patches would wind up in the first patch release of 8.3-RELEASE, but that's my ideal world. Is there some way to nominate these changes for inclusion in what will be the p1 release of 8.3? Thanks for any insight... -Kurt From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 25 13:34:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 321061065741 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 13:34:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32758FC08 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 13:34:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcjc3 with SMTP id jc3so108582bkc.13 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 06:34:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer; bh=mMpzMcwS2qBdOqoRCxOIzfpmueVlIg8ka5OOSqkIZ2g=; b=XijsUeaYe8eQ1XDx9aq0e9iNQuB4pAFWkye2iDYtyC94YLKNKAGStbOMVLFHKdOA2x fZ5omINbqtere/YnCiIGQOsV0ZlwfyF1geV4aLv1LFNV2LV829XZVNoleWRek/fRx01/ 6itsIr9+qYCTeNt8wyT+51MwctjM/ms9DdOQ0QJhNiF5Bm7cPO8jLvyZj/INZDTencsI e6JPelKtLYihvN4PFm6cdo4vJVpmURKn5Zc83smrpdalkvUhxr8KlEH8Ib7EjnlUsYw1 PF3DxRgM/m7LdLyFZSlqLV1YpKiKQDMTDZTRynBiLPTfWSXCCVVJ3tIJCudRQe8MhRQo KoFQ== Received: by 10.204.133.195 with SMTP id g3mr859790bkt.73.1335360869229; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 06:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id im9sm34650664bkc.5.2012.04.25.06.33.56 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 25 Apr 2012 06:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120425.133426.140.1@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: "Andrey Zonov" , hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 15:34:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4F94F867.50703@zonov.org> References: <20120422.120742.857.2@DOMY-PC> <4F94F867.50703@zonov.org> X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: Re: service causes ps errors in chroot X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 13:34:36 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrey Zonov To: rank1seeker@gmail.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 10:36:23 +0400 Subject: Re: service causes ps errors in chroot > On 4/22/12 4:07 PM, rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote: > > When I use '/usr/sbin/service' in chroot, it outputs: > > ps: empty file: Invalid argument > > OR > > ps: cannot read IdlePTD > > > > But it does work. > > > > I think you need devfs in your chroot. Try this: > > mount -t devfs devfs /path/to/chroot/dev > > > -- > Andrey Zonov > Today I tried to recreate/reproduce this, but nada. Without devfs mounted inside of DESTDIR. I don't know what happened? 'service' was supposed to be completely shell bassed, so I've was puzzled with 'ps' output. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 25 13:37:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 133E5106564A; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 13:37:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E1818FC08; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 13:37:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcjc3 with SMTP id jc3so112078bkc.13 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 06:37:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer; bh=9eV38Xhg01LDweFW4VxJNc1psS9OxjPY7GW/FGsrDj0=; b=QzfWxPJvkbOeFg8FCi9+8yEEsFYTSe+tb6cauuSWvq2+TIXs4ZeNf8FVK5PD9vS/jB WtpgdLT6ZLwdbb+hTXlGgZLxQ/T4QLlUGB4NK/aN79/8bJMef+UHSwFYCpdlkFA1FCCI Cc9X5HjjuLhxlp/GWzG67HZ2Q3lxhCZqIVNiwBkCoiFtOyUX5FD/u1q2cUD2ql3F0NUQ 9Z5/+MEQhKAl2Sy5zSFSvozPMBQ3eDZzlORFqXfb+K+zJLwQhdGlMsHyFKbTm3A5aUDA KnDoASqcLdcl0p8pE8sKPPNyN/VOlyxm237TwpP8kjgfPJvRQHwNmAEW7sgdQzDRwbdD NZpg== Received: by 10.204.151.75 with SMTP id b11mr858192bkw.1.1335361029169; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 06:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id jr13sm38606761bkb.14.2012.04.25.06.36.59 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 25 Apr 2012 06:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120425.133709.484.2@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: "John Baldwin" , dougb@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 15:37:09 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <201204231428.49712.jhb@freebsd.org> References: <20120421.164328.068.1@DOMY-PC> <201204231428.49712.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: Re: Forgotten debuging flags in 9.0 RELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 13:37:11 -0000 ----- Original Message -----=0D=0AFrom: John Baldwin = =0D=0ATo: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org=0D=0ACc: = rank1seeker@gmail.com, dougb@freebsd.org=0D=0ADate: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 = 14:28:49 -0400=0D=0ASubject: Re: Forgotten debuging flags in 9.0 = RELEASE=0D=0A=0D=0A> On Saturday, April 21, 2012 12:43:28 pm = rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote:=0D=0A> > Whenever I run:=0D=0A> > # make = distribution=0D=0A> > =0D=0A> > I also get:=0D=0A> > + ln -s = ../var/named/etc/namedb /usr/TZONE/etc/namedb=0D=0A> > + ln -s = mail/aliases /usr/TZONE/etc/aliases=0D=0A> > =0D=0A> > Looks like someone = forgot to turn off/remove debuging flags(set -x), before =0D=0A> building = 9.0 RELEASE=0D=0A> =0D=0A> Actually, those have been there for at least 7 = years. The namedb one was =0D=0A> first added in r136242, and the mail = one is older than that.=0D=0A> =0D=0A> > /usr/src/etc/Makefile:=0D=0A> > = ----=0D=0A> > @if [ ! -e ${DESTDIR}/etc/namedb ]; then \=0D=0A> > = set -x; \=0D=0A> > ln -s = ../var/named/etc/namedb ${DESTDIR}/etc/namedb; \=0D=0A> > = fi=0D=0A> > ----=0D=0A> > @if [ -d ${DESTDIR}/etc/mail -a -f = ${DESTDIR}/etc/mail/aliases -a \=0D=0A> > ! -f = ${DESTDIR}/etc/aliases ]; then \=0D=0A> > set -x; = \=0D=0A> > ln -s mail/aliases ${DESTDIR}/etc/aliases; = \=0D=0A> > fi=0D=0A> > ----=0D=0A> =0D=0A> -- =0D=0A> John = Baldwin=0D=0A> =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A7 years ?!?=0D=0AWow, it's time to get = rid of them, unless someone finds it criticaly = useful/needed.=0D=0A=0D=0AMy build script had many set -x lines, so I was = thinking it was my script outputing it.=0D=0AI thought I was going mad, = by being unable to find where am I using 'ln -s' lines, even after I've = removed all 'set -x' lines=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ADomagoj Smol=E8i=E6 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 25 14:15:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 590BF1065677; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:15:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E9258FC14; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:15:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8F773B95A; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:15:29 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: rank1seeker@gmail.com Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:14:56 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p13; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <20120421.164328.068.1@DOMY-PC> <201204231428.49712.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120425.133709.484.2@DOMY-PC> In-Reply-To: <20120425.133709.484.2@DOMY-PC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201204251014.56568.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, dougb@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Forgotten debuging flags in 9.0 RELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:15:30 -0000 On Wednesday, April 25, 2012 9:37:09 am rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Baldwin > To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Cc: rank1seeker@gmail.com, dougb@freebsd.org > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:28:49 -0400 > Subject: Re: Forgotten debuging flags in 9.0 RELEASE > > > On Saturday, April 21, 2012 12:43:28 pm rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote: > > > Whenever I run: > > > # make distribution > > > > > > I also get: > > > + ln -s ../var/named/etc/namedb /usr/TZONE/etc/namedb > > > + ln -s mail/aliases /usr/TZONE/etc/aliases > > > > > > Looks like someone forgot to turn off/remove debuging flags(set -x), before > > building 9.0 RELEASE > > > > Actually, those have been there for at least 7 years. The namedb one was > > first added in r136242, and the mail one is older than that. > > > > > /usr/src/etc/Makefile: > > > ---- > > > @if [ ! -e ${DESTDIR}/etc/namedb ]; then \ > > > set -x; \ > > > ln -s ../var/named/etc/namedb ${DESTDIR}/etc/namedb; \ > > > fi > > > ---- > > > @if [ -d ${DESTDIR}/etc/mail -a -f ${DESTDIR}/etc/mail/aliases - a \ > > > ! -f ${DESTDIR}/etc/aliases ]; then \ > > > set -x; \ > > > ln -s mail/aliases ${DESTDIR}/etc/aliases; \ > > > fi > > > ---- > > > > -- > > John Baldwin > > > > > 7 years ?!? > Wow, it's time to get rid of them, unless someone finds it criticaly useful/needed. Alternatively, it hasn't broken anything in 7 years. :) > My build script had many set -x lines, so I was thinking it was my script outputing it. > I thought I was going mad, by being unable to find where am I using 'ln -s' lines, even after I've removed all 'set -x' lines I will defer to dougb@ on this one as it is a chunk of the code he maintains. You will have to convince him that the verbosity is somehow harmful. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 25 14:55:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 669FC1065670; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:55:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DA5E8FC15; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:55:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcjc3 with SMTP id jc3so213457bkc.13 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 07:55:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer; bh=GR/HIs5w1NBWvG0pSaQRfqZq0do1IeMYmv23lcUhPKc=; b=B2Na8m7UvAUHC5y1TJWmeAeCr2rQaBo3wcRwxW6QMU6xa0QWgGbLYGKGq46O1+er7Y 4HfCmWyWmXZetLJRZ0v3cI62opacg1WEfPQhCPuZtHoAKOI2GeQMrawLUn9+f188D0lr iM8evQZXL4iXpY8IX5sXyAW+xuhOIZbFdrYCl/f9z8/mheb7Q5h0gyp1lfsHHV0MXEaU 43wt/1aRU/EoFMBGLtQMwOjrD9g7qJ+S3cU6yZgk+9xt30HLCIvxKU5HvkbpMrYdWQZA xdUgSSHuotA3VbQ57VqBsQM9ybzsGs+CZHioAutvP0P8qLnO/QTIujDVKPUAVJVet5RH 4hYg== Received: by 10.205.131.3 with SMTP id ho3mr976791bkc.48.1335365731142; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 07:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c5sm30033574bkw.7.2012.04.25.07.54.50 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 25 Apr 2012 07:55:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120425.145531.264.3@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: "John Baldwin" , dougb@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:55:31 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <201204251014.56568.jhb@freebsd.org> References: <20120421.164328.068.1@DOMY-PC> <201204231428.49712.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120425.133709.484.2@DOMY-PC> <201204251014.56568.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: Re: Forgotten debuging flags in 9.0 RELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:55:33 -0000 ----- Original Message -----=0D=0AFrom: John Baldwin = =0D=0ATo: rank1seeker@gmail.com=0D=0ACc: = dougb@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org=0D=0ADate: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 = 10:14:56 -0400=0D=0ASubject: Re: Forgotten debuging flags in 9.0 = RELEASE=0D=0A=0D=0A> On Wednesday, April 25, 2012 9:37:09 am = rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote:=0D=0A> > ----- Original Message -----=0D=0A> = > From: John Baldwin =0D=0A> > To: = freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org=0D=0A> > Cc: rank1seeker@gmail.com, = dougb@freebsd.org=0D=0A> > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:28:49 -0400=0D=0A> > = Subject: Re: Forgotten debuging flags in 9.0 RELEASE=0D=0A> > =0D=0A> > > = On Saturday, April 21, 2012 12:43:28 pm rank1seeker@gmail.com = wrote:=0D=0A> > > > Whenever I run:=0D=0A> > > > # make = distribution=0D=0A> > > > =0D=0A> > > > I also get:=0D=0A> > > > + ln -s = ../var/named/etc/namedb /usr/TZONE/etc/namedb=0D=0A> > > > + ln -s = mail/aliases /usr/TZONE/etc/aliases=0D=0A> > > > =0D=0A> > > > Looks like = someone forgot to turn off/remove debuging flags(set -x), =0D=0A> before = =0D=0A> > > building 9.0 RELEASE=0D=0A> > > =0D=0A> > > Actually, those = have been there for at least 7 years. The namedb one was =0D=0A> > > = first added in r136242, and the mail one is older than that.=0D=0A> > > = =0D=0A> > > > /usr/src/etc/Makefile:=0D=0A> > > > ----=0D=0A> > > > = @if [ ! -e ${DESTDIR}/etc/namedb ]; then \=0D=0A> > > > = set -x; \=0D=0A> > > > ln -s ../var/named/etc/namedb = ${DESTDIR}/etc/namedb; \=0D=0A> > > > fi=0D=0A> > > > ----=0D=0A> = > > > @if [ -d ${DESTDIR}/etc/mail -a -f = ${DESTDIR}/etc/mail/aliases -=0D=0A> a \=0D=0A> > > > ! -f = ${DESTDIR}/etc/aliases ]; then \=0D=0A> > > > set -x; = \=0D=0A> > > > ln -s mail/aliases ${DESTDIR}/etc/aliases; = \=0D=0A> > > > fi=0D=0A> > > > ----=0D=0A> > > =0D=0A> > > -- = =0D=0A> > > John Baldwin=0D=0A> > > =0D=0A> > =0D=0A> > =0D=0A> > 7 years = ?!?=0D=0A> > Wow, it's time to get rid of them, unless someone finds it = criticaly =0D=0A> useful/needed.=0D=0A> =0D=0A> Alternatively, it hasn't = broken anything in 7 years. :)=0D=0A=0D=0ALOL. Vey funny!=0D=0A=0D=0A> > = My build script had many set -x lines, so I was thinking it was my script = =0D=0A> outputing it.=0D=0A> > I thought I was going mad, by being unable = to find where am I using 'ln -s' =0D=0A> lines, even after I've removed = all 'set -x' lines=0D=0A> =0D=0A> I will defer to dougb@ on this one as = it is a chunk of the code he maintains.=0D=0A> You will have to convince = him that the verbosity is somehow harmful.=0D=0A> =0D=0A> -- =0D=0A> John = Baldwin=0D=0A=0D=0AWell, those can be left in place, if they are part of = STDOUT, as I leave only STDERR to reach my eyes.=0D=0AAnd I see exactly = those 2 'ln -s ...' lines because they are outputed to = STDERR.=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ADomagoj Smol=E8i=E6 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 25 18:09:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2324A1065674 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:09:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D30D8FC15 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:09:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcjc3 with SMTP id jc3so428045bkc.13 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:09:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer; bh=aDbp5NKYXgucIc1nm+Kmz32I3hwTWtpvDphwDPUCtEo=; b=Op8DRT5YAge7eOVBx5+R6bj8qdSuWXtY56yAYskhP/Sbqkg7+DPpMrl/FgRC6WQs0e il+sYv7L980DhZLB+C1808WsUDcf6zJJNjgXbr27QYSv36N75Qj2s/bDdNAYMYYzVdIB l9HI/ibOae2EEUCfsAZ9Y90AUK7dReblTJXY4KYB8kCotcmQBvn6DYg+Ddv/soXfebAn c4IUAfzXlifitTnyn5G6xu/mkK07hiM3KR8Pa2QGUXb4nEIskEFh8peWPOtVVQ0JBVUx OxgmO9kzLZrVjMTN8IROfHAFdIkPpjnaIjEgCoEah1SE5WBIzHrqowRE95F9Egmby0ox sliA== Received: by 10.204.151.86 with SMTP id b22mr1233340bkw.81.1335377347693; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:09:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g5sm429412bkt.9.2012.04.25.11.09.03 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120425.180906.586.4@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 20:09:06 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: sendmail disabled, but 'service -e' lists it as enabled X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:09:09 -0000 # grep sendmail /etc/rc.conf=0D=0Asendmail_enable=3D"NONE"=0D=0A# service = -e | grep sendmail=0D=0A/etc/rc.d/sendmail=0D=0A# ps -U root | grep = sendmail=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ADomagoj Smol=E8i=E6 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 25 18:33:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44B61106566C; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:33:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D74111502F9; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:33:41 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4F984383.8020000@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:33:39 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rank1seeker@gmail.com References: <20120421.164328.068.1@DOMY-PC> <201204231428.49712.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120425.133709.484.2@DOMY-PC> <201204251014.56568.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120425.145531.264.3@DOMY-PC> In-Reply-To: <20120425.145531.264.3@DOMY-PC> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Forgotten debuging flags in 9.0 RELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:33:42 -0000 On 4/25/2012 7:55 AM, rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote: > Well, those can be left in place, if they are part of STDOUT, as I > leave only STDERR to reach my eyes. And I see exactly those 2 'ln -s > ...' lines because they are outputed to STDERR. Right, I have the same issue with mergemaster ever since I redirected stdout from 'make distribution' to /dev/null. John is correct that I simply copied the existing example, my assumption at the time was that 'set -x' there was a cheap way to get some kind of output to let the user know what was being done (similar to what make does by default). I will test a patch to change that to echo'ing something useful to stdout instead unless anyone has an objection. Don't expect the result soon though, super, super, super busy with work/life/etc. atm. And as John pointed out, it's been there for a while. :) Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 25 18:56:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F80B106566B for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:56:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glarkin@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail1.sourcehosting.net (mail1.sourcehosting.net [74.205.51.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3299D8FC12 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:56:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 24-181-237-39.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com ([24.181.237.39] helo=Gregory-Larkins-iMac.local) by mail1.sourcehosting.net with esmtp (Exim 4.73 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SN7O2-000PCk-QO; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:56:25 -0400 Received: from Gregory-Larkins-iMac.local (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Gregory-Larkins-iMac.local (Postfix) with ESMTP id 569FD1184239; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4F9848D6.5040703@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:56:22 -0400 From: Greg Larkin Organization: The FreeBSD Project User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rank1seeker@gmail.com References: <20120425.180906.586.4@DOMY-PC> In-Reply-To: <20120425.180906.586.4@DOMY-PC> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 24.181.237.39 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: glarkin@FreeBSD.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on mail1.sourcehosting.net X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_PBL, RCVD_IN_RP_RNBL, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL, RDNS_DYNAMIC, TVD_RCVD_IP autolearn=no version=3.3.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail1.sourcehosting.net) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sendmail disabled, but 'service -e' lists it as enabled X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: glarkin@FreeBSD.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:56:31 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 4/25/12 2:09 PM, rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote: > # grep sendmail /etc/rc.conf sendmail_enable=3D"NONE" # service -e | > grep sendmail /etc/rc.d/sendmail # ps -U root | grep sendmail >=20 >=20 > Domagoj Smol=E8i=E6 Hi Domagoj, /etc/rc.d/sendmail explicitly sets some variables to "NO" when sendmail_enable is "NONE". Unfortunately, the service script does not take that into account, so if you want it to report correctly, place these lines in /etc/rc.conf: sendmail_enable=3D"NONE" sendmail_submit_enable=3D"NO" sendmail_outbound_enable=3D"NO" sendmail_msp_queue_enable=3D"NO" That will cover all bases, in case some other tool depends on the value of sendmail_enable. Hope that helps, Greg - --=20 Greg Larkin http://www.FreeBSD.org/ - The Power To Serve http://www.sourcehosting.net/ - Ready. Set. Code. http://twitter.com/cpucycle/ - Follow you, follow me -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk+YSNUACgkQ0sRouByUApAWVQCgtKdAVtJ6Cv/TMEbpEafZRmEA 6ZkAoKyxKQGuyj73w4Hrb/hIF7xwJurg =3Dbb7F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 25 19:30:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 073DE106564A for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 19:30:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bryan@shatow.net) Received: from secure.xzibition.com (secure.xzibition.com [173.160.118.92]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAD678FC0C for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 19:30:42 +0000 (UTC) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=shatow.net; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type; q=dns; s=sweb; b=t9BS+lJykOq5+rryEzHM9Rz7AwM9iLNd S6V7MTOd63TPXsB6+ow2MzGdFamV+S1DnKsqkgMZkGCT2pR7konUrY9tzNlzo9Ar tDKKkLNa/TNKD2QUyNV/cSL2jLriOv77QsOZTbFIOgg7gmKxr9iisUpQg9uBLtSq UvVJxicZcV8= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=shatow.net; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type; s=sweb; bh=kA36oua2mTxNbDqukxo5410J8mXKUtW5Z8xsTx 8Agno=; b=aLiJc6sbPF9qEKEhmU405TLYXZd/k9WHsvuZC2a8obD9MF0oj/wxXp b9N1u5IhYwlNvVMHrBr65ofmjKoBsjT3r1uct8o9y1AefIdZYL4dQ3/JpCQfH3Ge iltXcRrLVdzRNF2EY2mCfBxQBKEtbkFKr1rx/c0w1W0Kf5SuFri7Q= Received: (qmail 94051 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2012 14:30:35 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.107?) (bryan@shatow.net@74.94.87.209) by sweb.xzibition.com with ESMTPA; 25 Apr 2012 14:30:35 -0500 Message-ID: <4F9850D9.90300@shatow.net> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:30:33 -0500 From: Bryan Drewery User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120329 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jeremie@le-hen.org References: <4F4AFB53.8020503@shatow.net> <20120315223454.GA30360@felucia.tataz.chchile.org> In-Reply-To: <20120315223454.GA30360@felucia.tataz.chchile.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig5FC8CB90B84D717CF4A1571C" Cc: Subject: Re: compiling ports with SSP X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 19:30:43 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig5FC8CB90B84D717CF4A1571C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 03/15/2012 05:34 PM, Jeremie Le Hen wrote: > Hi Bryan >=20 > On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 09:41:07PM -0600, Bryan Drewery wrote: >> >> Thanks for this patch [1]! >> >> I've been building my ports tree with -fstack-protector on FreeBSD 6, = 7 >> and 8. Once I upgraded to 8, I started running into the issue [2] this= >> patch is fixing. >> >> I have a situation where non-ports applications are compiling >> statically, which ran into this. Specifically, the application is >> linking in security/openssl statically, which of course was compiled >> with -fstack-protector. Adding the /usr/lib/libc.ld fixed it without >> needing to hack at the failing non-port application. >> >> Would be nice if this, and PR 138228 were finally committed. >> >> Bryan Drewery >> >> [1] http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2011-June/03553= 8.html >> [2] http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-help/2006-05/msg00092.html >=20 > Wow, the perspective provided by those two posts makes me dizzy. This > has been a very long standing project. The base system is now compiled= > with SSP, but doing so for ports still requires some manual hacking > unfortenately. I've proposed a patch to compile ports with SSP a few > years ago, but some ports with special building strategy suffered the > problem described in [2]. Then I learned the possibilities of ld > scripts and provided the patch in [1] last year. >=20 > I think we have all the bits necessary to be able to compile ports with= > SSP painlessly. >=20 > First the patch in [1] has to be committed in the base system. I think= > this can be done in CURRENT without any problem, I run it myself on my > own servers without problem. Unfortunately it will probably never appe= ar > in RELENG_9 because it may be deemed too dangerous to make such a chang= e > in a stable branch. It would be nice to hear what kib@ and kan@ think > about this. >=20 > Next, the patch to bsd.port.mk in this PR [3] has to be applied to be > able to compile ports with SSP using a single knob. (Other patches > along this one can be thrown away, they were required hacks back when > the libc ld script didn't exist.) Then portmgr@ will naturally want to= > make a full port build with this knob turned on to check, but last time= > I was told they had very few resource and that this couldn't be > scheduled in the next couple of week, IIRC. >=20 > I admit the situation is partly my fault, because I did the fun > technical work but I didn't keep up with the "lobbying" part :). > I asked once or twice, without success, and then went to other subjects= =2E >=20 > I would be really glad if we could proceed with this. FreeBSD-9.0 has > just been release, this is probably a good time to step forward. >=20 > [3] http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3Dports/138228 >=20 > Cheers, Something to keep an eye on is that some ports may run `file /usr/lib/libc.so` and find that it is an ASCII text file. As I've mentioned, I've been running with SSP in my ports for at least a year now, and with this ld script for several months. The only issue I've ran into is the security/openssl port is looking at /usr/lib/libc.so to see if it is ELF or not, and due to this is falling back on a.out binary format and then generating incorrect ASM. I think this is going to be a pretty rare and specific case though. Regards, Bryan Drewery --------------enig5FC8CB90B84D717CF4A1571C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPmFDaAAoJEG54KsA8mwz5KhUP/i0e1poEEjIgDGfjiG2+y+K0 UTmM8iiExYIuGEGRIKpQpylVSUT1LvRLet2Dww9jzZn9C2CB1Ke6Vb+h8ifK38yB LdMcnXMXZdBC5sWpG4KM2vzsUmXESoeoc9h0KFodkzRwa307vBY8DHQ0y/2mOn3v azVE2d0yVu9pUsXe1ZtjxV8uV9q7juxkmHr+IRG585KPy1iDNp5GpCDgu4LHP8sh TWfWzFgtE1hm8MJ7brlMumirTWHL+QLBqkKFiAZr9cnoLqoJ3kq4MKFiOa1iBMno /0PhXerdiMBLgaHFBOgiv3CrlMqIz15XJj651nlNIBevRDRxR/dCMaC5jsWK0RHz rWvpXQ7JMw0hxtsNVPfZTsfffQBcrI055klxRvaTk0fgEzl7XB55w80NIw7MBH3W XrDv53pnldwXOE30/2mylDdg1ygNLepP5/bA57PWlu2G4Fj1fK8P9/m8fvNmDoNm i/5ytCvgXcxxFp2aQQEyvFWb5tIkSOCySUygg0IGCaX0AQoIZaT970h4znKYr2G4 +48PJmgzWTSE3+E9YhMdLmBxWQ46DOWzI6bc4twvK8RiWxORizUGPSwrrX4ewpmD 8pSXxOUhEmltOY2WY8ThyWXL/dVsv5KwUiYosFBUeUBYMKDGT3iEDUsrdvZmx80o G09RKuWtrhkNwmTxBD1g =xglu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig5FC8CB90B84D717CF4A1571C-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 25 20:51:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7973106564A for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 20:51:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F36CF8FC17 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 20:51:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id XAA16314; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 23:50:52 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1SN9Ap-00009t-SR; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 23:50:51 +0300 Message-ID: <4F986372.1070400@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 23:49:54 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120420 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kurt Lidl References: <20120424171909.GA99220@pix.net> In-Reply-To: <20120424171909.GA99220@pix.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: criteria for patch inclusion in patch release? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 20:51:11 -0000 on 24/04/2012 20:19 Kurt Lidl said the following: > What determines the patch worthiness of particular fixes that > have gone into a the source tree for inclusion into the next > patch release of a given -RELEASE branch? > > As an example, there are two patches that improve life for > those of us who use fxp ethernet adaptors (r233158, r233585). > Both of these came out after the branch of 8.3-RELEASE, > I believe. Neither of these patches are in 8.3-STABLE, as > far as I can tell. I think they ought to be in at least > 8-STABLE or 9-STABLE, based on their change dates and the > "MFC after: 1 week"/"MFC after: 2 weeks" notations in the > SVN entries. > > In my ideal world, these two patches would wind up in the > first patch release of 8.3-RELEASE, but that's my ideal world. > Is there some way to nominate these changes for inclusion > in what will be the p1 release of 8.3? > > Thanks for any insight... Only security issues and severe bugs affecting majority of the users get into patch releases. "Normal" bug fixes (should) get into the next release. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 25 22:39:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 774E81065673 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 22:39:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sendtomatt@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f44.google.com (mail-pz0-f44.google.com [209.85.210.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462EA8FC0C for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 22:39:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadz14 with SMTP id z14so2077477dad.17 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 15:39:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=GAz57xTAStdZuDfFWvnn0pFRfVTce7IwGHAjCaIFess=; b=vNqQsfxMgBUsodbajMeODZFojk5wYAJc+7YapMHkWvd46PAnMl5DS2u5+T+Jr45kx5 KIz7RFifBVQzNXFCtJN7DgTNXxRk22kPwjScfeoSF8kP8mQcddnX5bAVs32XX7LndLYQ plX9QZn6T3vb7yFikTBUJm/QdDRHb0HYZeW3PkoJLr36md7igYUrkc38eKb2xPFf+HBf SQ6z3aZXxk/ae2HdBHMOA2ZuECCH3iSCq2DU0J7bCs9BDid8XIG1SlS2tkbMfkr35rGj h0TDOvHgznz50abSxxjrCky53plCZn9ojvgOKKkgE2nYJWpoK/odiCgOVHR834NXwhh0 +rng== Received: by 10.68.232.163 with SMTP id tp3mr4456153pbc.96.1335393589776; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 15:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bakeneko.local ([75.101.87.90]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ud10sm1325793pbc.25.2012.04.25.15.39.46 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 25 Apr 2012 15:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F987D0D.2000906@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 15:39:09 -0700 From: matt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120326 Thunderbird/10.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bryan Drewery References: <4F4AFB53.8020503@shatow.net> <20120315223454.GA30360@felucia.tataz.chchile.org> <4F9850D9.90300@shatow.net> In-Reply-To: <4F9850D9.90300@shatow.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jeremie@le-hen.org Subject: Re: compiling ports with SSP X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 22:39:50 -0000 On 04/25/12 12:30, Bryan Drewery wrote: > On 03/15/2012 05:34 PM, Jeremie Le Hen wrote: >> Hi Bryan >> >> On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 09:41:07PM -0600, Bryan Drewery wrote: >>> Thanks for this patch [1]! >>> >>> I've been building my ports tree with -fstack-protector on FreeBSD 6,= 7 >>> and 8. Once I upgraded to 8, I started running into the issue [2] thi= s >>> patch is fixing. >>> >>> I have a situation where non-ports applications are compiling >>> statically, which ran into this. Specifically, the application is >>> linking in security/openssl statically, which of course was compiled >>> with -fstack-protector. Adding the /usr/lib/libc.ld fixed it without >>> needing to hack at the failing non-port application. >>> >>> Would be nice if this, and PR 138228 were finally committed. >>> >>> Bryan Drewery >>> >>> [1] http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2011-June/0355= 38.html >>> [2] http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-help/2006-05/msg00092.html >> Wow, the perspective provided by those two posts makes me dizzy. This= >> has been a very long standing project. The base system is now compile= d >> with SSP, but doing so for ports still requires some manual hacking >> unfortenately. I've proposed a patch to compile ports with SSP a few >> years ago, but some ports with special building strategy suffered the >> problem described in [2]. Then I learned the possibilities of ld >> scripts and provided the patch in [1] last year. >> >> I think we have all the bits necessary to be able to compile ports wit= h >> SSP painlessly. >> >> First the patch in [1] has to be committed in the base system. I thin= k >> this can be done in CURRENT without any problem, I run it myself on my= >> own servers without problem. Unfortunately it will probably never app= ear >> in RELENG_9 because it may be deemed too dangerous to make such a chan= ge >> in a stable branch. It would be nice to hear what kib@ and kan@ think= >> about this. >> >> Next, the patch to bsd.port.mk in this PR [3] has to be applied to be >> able to compile ports with SSP using a single knob. (Other patches >> along this one can be thrown away, they were required hacks back when >> the libc ld script didn't exist.) Then portmgr@ will naturally want t= o >> make a full port build with this knob turned on to check, but last tim= e >> I was told they had very few resource and that this couldn't be >> scheduled in the next couple of week, IIRC. >> >> I admit the situation is partly my fault, because I did the fun >> technical work but I didn't keep up with the "lobbying" part :). >> I asked once or twice, without success, and then went to other subject= s. >> >> I would be really glad if we could proceed with this. FreeBSD-9.0 has= >> just been release, this is probably a good time to step forward. >> >> [3] http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3Dports/138228 >> >> Cheers, > Something to keep an eye on is that some ports may run `file > /usr/lib/libc.so` and find that it is an ASCII text file. > > As I've mentioned, I've been running with SSP in my ports for at least = a > year now, and with this ld script for several months. > > The only issue I've ran into is the security/openssl port is looking at= > /usr/lib/libc.so to see if it is ELF or not, and due to this is falling= > back on a.out binary format and then generating incorrect ASM. I think > this is going to be a pretty rare and specific case though. > > Regards, > Bryan Drewery > Any reason not to use -fstack-protector-all as opposed to -fstack-protect= or? I've been using this on all ports for quite a while, I don't usually run into problems that make me need to revert to stock cflags. I don't use ports OpenSSL so that's maybe why I've escaped. Matt From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 26 06:52:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1323C106564A for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 06:52:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from j.mckeown@ru.ac.za) Received: from mail.ru.ac.za (mail.ru.ac.za [IPv6:2001:4200:1010:0:250:56ff:fe8d:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5B6E8FC08 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 06:52:27 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ru.ac.za; s=ru-msa; h=X-Authenticated-User:Message-Id:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=IbYHGvAWgoE69Cia+TDo0KgjQoN/j9GxPirVcZaLqUs=; b=A3bL5GobBR+rT1YrtLtlzH75K9fLsfQh24gNJOXBwyUR32GxyIh8FcysgScACdCFVy78+A/rVU0pc3OQZbjjzjFQwZLccle1koYd2GVOA8oB7zsyjYaOgjIPtOSdvGi+; Received: from vorkosigan.ru.ac.za ([2001:4200:1010:1058:219:d1ff:fe9f:a932]:58281) by mail.ru.ac.za with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SNIYz-000ClM-A5 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 08:52:25 +0200 From: Jonathan McKeown Organization: Rhodes University To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 08:52:25 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: <20120425.180906.586.4@DOMY-PC> <4F9848D6.5040703@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4F9848D6.5040703@FreeBSD.org> X-Face: $@VrUx^RHy/}yu]jKf/<4T%/d|F+$j-Ol2"2J$q+%OK1]&/G_S9(=?utf-8?q?HkaQ*=60!=3FYOK=3FY!=27M=60C=0A=09aP=5C9nVPF8Q=7DCilHH8l=3B=7E!4?= =?utf-8?q?2HK6=273lg4J=7Daz?=@1Dqqh:J]M^"YPn*2IWrZON$1+G?oX3@ =?utf-8?q?k=230=0A=0954XDRg=3DYn=5FF-etwot4U=24b?=dTS{i X-Virus-Scanned: mail.ru.ac.za (2001:4200:1010:0:250:56ff:fe8d:5) X-Authenticated-User: s0900137 from vorkosigan.ru.ac.za (2001:4200:1010:1058:219:d1ff:fe9f:a932) using auth_plaintext Subject: Re: sendmail disabled, but 'service -e' lists it as enabled X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 06:52:29 -0000 On Wednesday 25 April 2012 20:56:22 Greg Larkin wrote: > On 4/25/12 2:09 PM, rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote: > > # grep sendmail /etc/rc.conf sendmail_enable="NONE" # service -e | > > grep sendmail /etc/rc.d/sendmail # ps -U root | grep sendmail > > /etc/rc.d/sendmail explicitly sets some variables to "NO" when > sendmail_enable is "NONE". Unfortunately, the service script does not > take that into account, so if you want it to report correctly, place > these lines in /etc/rc.conf: > > sendmail_enable="NONE" > sendmail_submit_enable="NO" > sendmail_outbound_enable="NO" > sendmail_msp_queue_enable="NO" And in fact man 8 rc.sendmail says (under sendmail_enable in the RC.CONF VARIABLES section): The ``NONE'' option is deprecated and should not be used. It will be removed in a future release. and later in the manpage: To completely prevent any sendmail(8) daemons from starting, you must set the following variables in /etc/rc.conf: sendmail_enable="NO" sendmail_submit_enable="NO" sendmail_outbound_enable="NO" sendmail_msp_queue_enable="NO" Jonathan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 26 10:45:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD3A106566C; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 10:45:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jlh@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp5-g21.free.fr (smtp5-g21.free.fr [IPv6:2a01:e0c:1:1599::14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78C6A8FC08; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 10:45:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from endor.tataz.chchile.org (unknown [82.233.239.98]) by smtp5-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CBB7D481E6; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 12:45:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from felucia.tataz.chchile.org (felucia.tataz.chchile.org [192.168.1.9]) by endor.tataz.chchile.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F000C6E2; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 12:45:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: by felucia.tataz.chchile.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 98359EFB1; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 10:45:49 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 12:45:49 +0200 From: Jeremie Le Hen To: Bryan Drewery Message-ID: <20120426104549.GA67758@felucia.tataz.chchile.org> Mail-Followup-To: Bryan Drewery , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4F4AFB53.8020503@shatow.net> <20120315223454.GA30360@felucia.tataz.chchile.org> <4F9850D9.90300@shatow.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F9850D9.90300@shatow.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: compiling ports with SSP X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 10:45:59 -0000 --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 02:30:33PM -0500, Bryan Drewery wrote: >=20 > Something to keep an eye on is that some ports may run `file > /usr/lib/libc.so` and find that it is an ASCII text file. >=20 > As I've mentioned, I've been running with SSP in my ports for at least a > year now, and with this ld script for several months. >=20 > The only issue I've ran into is the security/openssl port is looking at > /usr/lib/libc.so to see if it is ELF or not, and due to this is falling > back on a.out binary format and then generating incorrect ASM. I think > this is going to be a pretty rare and specific case though. I'm glad to hear that the problem doesn't seem to be widespread. How many ports do you have installed? Do you have big families like X.Org, Gnome or KDE? --=20 Jeremie Le Hen Men are born free and equal. Later on, they're on their own. Jean Yanne --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iF4EAREIAAYFAk+ZJ1wACgkQKN43Aov2z5I+qQD/fetVVR+KL/YO9YnyaSEPQ/Cj FDSM67YVgHlESb5G9BkA/1KuQDqMgb0z9ALHs7oaCwYTkuJTgw3WyuRN8fSVW0U6 =eBiB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 26 12:50:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B13F106568F for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 12:50:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bryan@shatow.net) Received: from secure.xzibition.com (secure.xzibition.com [173.160.118.92]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C0AA8FC16 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 12:50:59 +0000 (UTC) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=shatow.net; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type; q=dns; s=sweb; b=DeBcs75o1VmW3JzBf6jf8lVcGOKjcb5h GmKTh1+w1C9W4rvZPwrdGaCQW7JJvBdJOlIeRBROH6wKG0ZU40MqqJuc20N3fPOH cU9OcXWw9FwwPy4i974CgpRup/yCktV4U/J+GnUZAWvDE4cJPcRVCcoOIGpGvbyN h6h3UGl8GVk= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=shatow.net; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type; s=sweb; bh=qD13NO7lpyZPcaZWHwPX11pKorT34vHo3kacm5 qKrwk=; b=czIvs+hhYfWkczNcmMNu9F8UxI6roYvQaWn/qjezbmv/J5015fndQM mc+lwr1xJ0H1yvKPH03F8B/08Eb2Y2w3lQpQqU57W0i8cCSxWUqp4CEkNdA30cky 8YJkpD1UttkOV/aY3gnuoxAuLhn3+ayJhVnWQYPHMBJb4Hx0Qw/pg= Received: (qmail 7836 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2012 07:50:57 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.10.1.87?) (bryan@shatow.net@10.10.1.87) by sweb.xzibition.com with ESMTPA; 26 Apr 2012 07:50:57 -0500 Message-ID: <4F9944A3.4090200@shatow.net> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 07:50:43 -0500 From: Bryan Drewery User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120420 Thunderbird/12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jlh@FreeBSD.org References: <4F4AFB53.8020503@shatow.net> <20120315223454.GA30360@felucia.tataz.chchile.org> <4F9850D9.90300@shatow.net> <20120426104549.GA67758@felucia.tataz.chchile.org> In-Reply-To: <20120426104549.GA67758@felucia.tataz.chchile.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 OpenPGP: id=3C9B0CF9; url=http://www.shatow.net/bryan/bryan.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig1F67E5203EA69508DEFF1EEA" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: compiling ports with SSP X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 12:50:59 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig1F67E5203EA69508DEFF1EEA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 4/26/2012 5:45 AM, Jeremie Le Hen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 02:30:33PM -0500, Bryan Drewery wrote: >> >> Something to keep an eye on is that some ports may run `file >> /usr/lib/libc.so` and find that it is an ASCII text file. >> >> As I've mentioned, I've been running with SSP in my ports for at least= a >> year now, and with this ld script for several months. >> >> The only issue I've ran into is the security/openssl port is looking a= t >> /usr/lib/libc.so to see if it is ELF or not, and due to this is fallin= g >> back on a.out binary format and then generating incorrect ASM. I think= >> this is going to be a pretty rare and specific case though. >=20 > I'm glad to hear that the problem doesn't seem to be widespread. How > many ports do you have installed? Do you have big families like X.Org,= > Gnome or KDE? >=20 No, not running any desktop ports here. I've only disabled SSP for the gcc ports. Here's a list of ports that have worked for me: http://pastebin.com/x9wE7rAq Also, congrats! Bryan Drewery --------------enig1F67E5203EA69508DEFF1EEA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPmUSoAAoJEG54KsA8mwz55goP/3RxKWnXcw3L3uKnAJO149uz dchy5XeTzXJjff9edUk2EDQu91n1lzGWq54ECkYi7Cp6E1tsdVyg1PMqAQdM0NAM qUUQ8kS8724O/0MQEKNNtNF/HZFe0pkUsy3yw63DznzxgbwWD4dsbGNP/+3Sg/I1 lJMmMXP5Jd5HWC59qSuVwgrR10DT4qMyGbZFHCadH85CTDxtD7Im3kNugc5CHkph UU9eIralhd1sOCLfHUqYAw4/EJ5nCEvm+4H/FvH2YrmR8cPGDZiN1Eh2Oz+MmGfA pxfjXdhIzcmbsjPiVBMljbmPhb2/Cp+ajxP84X41xJjPsdVcY9DJ0Gh6u79cILu7 RM3xltfkV7/v3hKKhHFqs1XvThvgO1+5wlKDYYZpnY4aQoSaw94U9+Tss9IZVS5b qyKax7z0MDRwgKcX4BxQ7MdYYGJXwO/h47TmEtcHg90YiQ/GCqem98/awhKMMwKO NekvRnXjswbIueJsdnb/wgjb0rHTSFXhEG209Bg/LvakvndzK3sP3jwm4fX7y2x+ mUkkuLp2tWky53rgN/MNVTM2s7tGXKZCT1hQnRlded8puewq9rhjdHICcVSLQ0nW Q20dyFq6vMf1BwPO7awMPr7qV4SdhFXX8kDkMQuw+P8IHLXo13cHVBBwiYLVcs09 6oyktwFgGHHkXocJvWDW =1M6e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig1F67E5203EA69508DEFF1EEA-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 26 17:16:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAAC71065672 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:16:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06CB68FC12 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:16:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3QHGZn9054103 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:16:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q3QHGYDY054100 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:16:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:16:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:16:35 +0200 (CEST) Subject: best possible GJOURNAL device? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:16:45 -0000 http://www.vikingmodular.com/products/arxcis/ddr3/ddr3.html or ZFS ZIL device for ZFS fans. anyone know exactly how it is visible and how it works? isn't BIOS clearing out memory on reboot? FreeBSD is but it can be patched easily. How to get DRAM controller mapping i mean what DIMM is at what address? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 26 17:25:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F302106566B for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:25:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367E28FC0A for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:25:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vbmv11 with SMTP id v11so1474964vbm.13 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 10:25:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Ggg27udiIiJk1HrHPCbdMB6UY3S09StkC2gEnZ7Nvy0=; b=KXRuF8t+CHRYslSwzo7NM6w5nWATOWgFoWu5QFxqvWj0lR6iJrhVx2UwVZ0lSokaMg TWzTa4E8C/fwN0w2sEWo0KG7/5PloChkjBFsshpmHQ+aN/goeDi5CLo6T8gNHN5nt+7L I53YpCG0MX9TMiQIIhrEScpG+oXGKw8KEEdVKoVpXpg8XRn3V0ObdQgTG1aSz/O/WHuC Wad5y6m63Qr9TWFEFcAF29E0Ww9gdfygd0rofAxhAppF6Jq3oU5nT/amyOR5j+SkQiQC 2Z6rf4vqVyd1Wrwv2HXtOQC9J4tSG0clFjlf7bYhFWwvM2nnbTPTLdp0HS3NGL0cOiIn 2Fqw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.73.132 with SMTP id l4mr6828934vdv.4.1335461108324; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 10:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.230.135 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 10:25:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 10:25:08 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: best possible GJOURNAL device? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:25:09 -0000 On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 10:16 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > http://www.vikingmodular.com/products/arxcis/ddr3/ddr3.html > > or ZFS ZIL device for ZFS fans. > > anyone know exactly how it is visible and how it works? In general devices like these that I've dealt with in the past are presented as SATA or SAS devices, but some devices require additional drivers (take Ramdrives devices for instance). > isn't BIOS clearing out memory on reboot? Depends on the BIOS, the settings set in the BIOS, etc. > FreeBSD is but it can be patched easily. I wouldn't depend on volatile memory working in a non-volatile manner unless it's battery backed (which companies like Ramdrive, STEC, Viking, etc do) and in which case all you're doing (depending on how the device is designed) is delaying writes out to non-volatile (NAND/NOR flash) or another non-volatile medium (USB thumbdrive? etc... I vaguely remember seeing a vendor doing something "clever" like that...). > How to get DRAM controller mapping i mean what DIMM is at what address? What is located where should be opaque if the designer designed it properly (otherwise a driver will need to be added to interface with the device if the vendor is trying to be clever or is not fully conforming to ATA/SCSI standards). Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 26 17:42:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1534C1065677 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:42:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5299A8FC18 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:42:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3QHgGTj001461; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:42:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q3QHgG8a001458; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:42:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:42:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Garrett Cooper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:42:16 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: best possible GJOURNAL device? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:42:21 -0000 >> http://www.vikingmodular.com/products/arxcis/ddr3/ddr3.html > In general devices like these that I've dealt with in the past are > presented as SATA or SAS devices, but some devices require additional > drivers (take Ramdrives devices for instance). this one - as described - is 100% regular DDR3 DIMM and plugged as normal memory. > > > Depends on the BIOS, the settings set in the BIOS, etc. > >> FreeBSD is but it can be patched easily. > > I wouldn't depend on volatile memory working in a non-volatile manner > unless it's battery backed (which companies like Ramdrive, STEC, this is supercapacitor backed. after poweroff it have enough time to write all to SLC flash chip. >> How to get DRAM controller mapping i mean what DIMM is at what address? > > What is located where should be opaque if the designer designed it > properly (otherwise a driver will need to be added to interface with > the device if the vendor is trying to be clever or is not fully > conforming to ATA/SCSI standards). please read attached link. it is NOT SATA/ATA/SAS/PCIe device. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 26 18:18:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47A87106564A; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:18:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E8168FC0A; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:18:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcjc3 with SMTP id jc3so1634889bkc.13 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:18:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer; bh=s06/1feZdLzhDQFxmtzZGkESMdiNZTsuSeUuNt0eQPw=; b=ftLWgSbx0HudFGLwNf75YuaAsdryDmtjTuWpIgzulxNW5CCjnwXqKu0ipU4HekPiiD wjRzjd+bHxWulieJdh10f7fQERbnNU4Min+NQLoGT1sS3QF42cWQVdj4504FNbeW1MzV 3GxhBO9GGq3SBVb19Z49sZXy3neYsrz2RSQNdB05R4u1UpwFXfYY0hVmHpib6VE3i+Nj eywshsxYxoyyoXf6QFaBeu2jle8CoIMEfBabuvytyEgftAsbrO0OILdnMyvuAsm4BR7f Y/bSeDB61aqW1i+3qp1r9W6h9CGKXDhHSZEKdcir5mHr8UDxid338OHP0xZYnbQMNYbV EWOg== Received: by 10.205.129.4 with SMTP id hg4mr2892769bkc.16.1335464303697; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:18:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s16sm7228765bkt.3.2012.04.26.11.17.34 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120426.181745.913.5@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: "Jonathan McKeown" , "Greg Larkin" , hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 20:17:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: <201204260852.25101.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> References: <20120425.180906.586.4@DOMY-PC> <4F9848D6.5040703@FreeBSD.org> <201204260852.25101.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: Re: sendmail disabled, but 'service -e' lists it as enabled X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:18:25 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan McKeown To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 08:52:25 +0200 Subject: Re: sendmail disabled, but 'service -e' lists it as enabled > On Wednesday 25 April 2012 20:56:22 Greg Larkin wrote: > > On 4/25/12 2:09 PM, rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote: > > > # grep sendmail /etc/rc.conf sendmail_enable="NONE" # service -e | > > > grep sendmail /etc/rc.d/sendmail # ps -U root | grep sendmail > > > > /etc/rc.d/sendmail explicitly sets some variables to "NO" when > > sendmail_enable is "NONE". Unfortunately, the service script does not > > take that into account, so if you want it to report correctly, place > > these lines in /etc/rc.conf: > > > > sendmail_enable="NONE" > > sendmail_submit_enable="NO" > > sendmail_outbound_enable="NO" > > sendmail_msp_queue_enable="NO" > > And in fact man 8 rc.sendmail says (under sendmail_enable in the RC.CONF > VARIABLES section): > > The ``NONE'' option is deprecated and should not be used. It will be removed > in a future release. > > and later in the manpage: > > To completely prevent any sendmail(8) daemons from starting, you must set the > following variables in /etc/rc.conf: > > sendmail_enable="NO" > sendmail_submit_enable="NO" > sendmail_outbound_enable="NO" > sendmail_msp_queue_enable="NO" > > Jonathan I've thought NONE was a new, advanced form, which saves 4 lines of NO It ended up being deprecated one. Setting them all to NO, doesn't confuse 'service -e' anymore. Thx! Domagoj From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 26 18:18:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 595E71065680 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:18:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f54.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF2E78FC15 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:18:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lagv3 with SMTP id v3so1519746lag.13 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:18:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=rudCtQk5EuHKNSj7ka/kgBj96tSJpAAlO23zL4S+oDE=; b=cnAsiDRg2cmcn/rqpFxAfBHsmlflczkd3nS3j4eF0MsucYS0j8ujIsFjcRgLP+meXk txgAMYOGjgC6xB+ef0AfVKT9hQs40jnI1PbOUXtxxoQnd5qDSRZG2SJuQC0o8hiD6ymn X8Plxa7auLPuqBzlDXRGoHUFfpOAVE3/Olrq9GAl/NVbo+laCnJiVb+umVGQTSGuXHG/ tJQ2X9EaBZKcZMOsDX6gOidQ0pKxVKI+bfVNO1Lv91ujb8h/LYBulD5cOqZ+jcML3qwn L2/VGkZyG+fj16sSbNWa/Fmjtj+ANiqiU6Q44oOqimWY5015ceRTBW5jzm6J1cn1oA/X cQqg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.41.5 with SMTP id b5mr3704987lbl.61.1335464321582; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.76.169 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:18:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:18:41 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: best possible GJOURNAL device? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:18:43 -0000 On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> http://www.vikingmodular.com/products/arxcis/ddr3/ddr3.html >> >> In general devices like these that I've dealt with in the past are >> presented as SATA or SAS devices, but some devices require additional >> drivers (take Ramdrives devices for instance). > > this one - as described - is 100% regular DDR3 DIMM and plugged as normal > memory. > >> Depends on the BIOS, the settings set in the BIOS, etc. >> >>> FreeBSD is but it can be patched easily. >> >> >> I wouldn't depend on volatile memory working in a non-volatile manner >> unless it's battery backed (which companies like Ramdrive, STEC, > > this is supercapacitor backed. after poweroff it have enough time to write > all to SLC flash chip. > >>> How to get DRAM controller mapping i mean what DIMM is at what address? >> >> >> What is located where should be opaque if the designer designed it >> properly (otherwise a driver will need to be added to interface with >> the device if the vendor is trying to be clever or is not fully >> conforming to ATA/SCSI standards). > > please read attached link. it is NOT SATA/ATA/SAS/PCIe device. I just read the product tearout. It says that it depends purely on BIOS support, which may or may not exist for your motherboard (and there's an SSD that it uses to write out the data in the event that power fails). So I'm guessing that if it works with your motherboard, it will work regardless of the OS. How it's presented to the OS? ENOCLUE (ask Viking). Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 26 18:43:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DA701065672; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:43:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD0998FC15; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:43:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcjc3 with SMTP id jc3so1658999bkc.13 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:43:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer; bh=LQpVEs17p77qBOZa0gqLGGpQH41wiEssPgneXYO0dJI=; b=AnvOFbrwPMyvIehhyR30bT6ABuZwge0Z24yeoHQSsYMi7U1cnNaJ8mk2NuwAf1kBCY Kd8flYOtK7fcwzq0Flg5eB+66U6ZV4VpLb8G/pSBV0TquiISJbp0aXkYaoKLxllY8WGK opXZx0cTaBdJKU7YZKdWKqGJGjazK4T2D/vK8nBmt6EsSKtJ1CYfNcNh3ixxCp0W8im6 ExSf5cDtXt+PYoi+HshHsxDTIPqRblTaQpbokPtfhXkgQWR5mM9qsaQ2a4OcMh5VDKVo y79K83EajqfYyQj8P8l8/qdr1uK/RN60NDvK/GyN+UwAfo5D4qaRXzZH/0pYnnfSSkw5 jypA== Received: by 10.204.128.207 with SMTP id l15mr2882118bks.100.1335465782778; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c5sm7309904bkw.7.2012.04.26.11.42.11 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120426.184227.760.6@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: "Doug Barton" , "John Baldwin" , hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 20:42:27 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <4F984383.8020000@FreeBSD.org> References: <20120421.164328.068.1@DOMY-PC> <201204231428.49712.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120425.133709.484.2@DOMY-PC> <201204251014.56568.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120425.145531.264.3@DOMY-PC> <4F984383.8020000@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: Re: Forgotten debuging flags in 9.0 RELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:43:04 -0000 ----- Original Message -----=0D=0AFrom: Doug Barton = =0D=0ATo: rank1seeker@gmail.com=0D=0ACc: John Baldwin = , hackers@freebsd.org=0D=0ADate: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 = 11:33:39 -0700=0D=0ASubject: Re: Forgotten debuging flags in 9.0 = RELEASE=0D=0A=0D=0A> On 4/25/2012 7:55 AM, rank1seeker@gmail.com = wrote:=0D=0A> > Well, those can be left in place, if they are part of = STDOUT, as I=0D=0A> > leave only STDERR to reach my eyes. And I see = exactly those 2 'ln -s=0D=0A> > ...' lines because they are outputed to = STDERR.=0D=0A> =0D=0A> Right, I have the same issue with mergemaster ever = since I redirected=0D=0A> stdout from 'make distribution' to = /dev/null.=0D=0A> =0D=0A> John is correct that I simply copied the = existing example, my assumption=0D=0A> at the time was that 'set -x' = there was a cheap way to get some kind of=0D=0A> output to let the user = know what was being done (similar to what make=0D=0A> does by default). I = will test a patch to change that to echo'ing=0D=0A> something useful to = stdout instead unless anyone has an objection.=0D=0A> =0D=0A> Don't = expect the result soon though, super, super, super busy with=0D=0A> = work/life/etc. atm. And as John pointed out, it's been there for a while. = :)=0D=0A> =0D=0A> Doug=0D=0A> =0D=0A=0D=0ANo problem.=0D=0ABUT, before = you start doing ANYTHING, look at 'src builds and STDERR' = thread:=0D=0A=0D=0Ahttp://docs.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?20120302.180625.051.3=0D=0A=0D=0AIt = is critical to continue right on top of those patches.=0D=0AI hope it'll = all end up in 9.1=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ADomagoj Smol=E8i=E6=0D=0A From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 26 21:35:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF626106566B for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:35:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 946E38FC1E for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:35:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbcwz17 with SMTP id wz17so206683pbc.13 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:35:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=yY239/K48FaH7zX7Pw/5Xo4AZxItqma+rMJV7S62a4g=; b=Om6bGK81jhGl2+2553OT9h+LiryjZmB8n0yJu6BAlWFY0x33sxDrmZ7904hfxGx5fJ WGXYOnOkBLqtCrCeghcdhK7h/3kMXFp7g6ebb3r4/gLRQXIqZeMDV6sxQXTBShUMw6Fu 0IKeE5tsl0lp+yOgkQqBh0ONgLrQmWMi90ciN00xFyCiPrQdWc9pV9YPbMpF5ewnYaQq gI7ch59KWVP01DvYEwS/4EyPYOB3Q6pGUQwCedofdNIyRrmbxO3QNQIejdk4OI03nq9u 8xTG8uAULgEKEadHZbAr+yGU6Vz3T+9/5CvPMCiDzNKDOohN+Z3p7sursZT7tMBiHe0S LRIA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.213.200 with SMTP id nu8mr6200786pbc.59.1335476112161; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.142.101.9 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:35:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120424171909.GA99220@pix.net> References: <20120424171909.GA99220@pix.net> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:35:12 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 4nF1tmhP9U4ELGDYmeWawBDUUYA Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Kurt Lidl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: criteria for patch inclusion in patch release? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:35:12 -0000 In addition to Andriy, people MFC bugfixes and patches as their time and motivation permits. If you'd like to backport the patch yourself and test it out, then tell the author that the backport works, that'll dramatically increase the chances it gets done. Do that enough times and you'll likely find yourself with a commit bit, so you too can do the work yourself without having to ask for a committer to commit it. :) Adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 26 22:01:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A71551065687 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 22:01:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9D668FC08 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 22:01:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3QM1VVm002581; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 00:01:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q3QM1VeB002578; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 00:01:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 00:01:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Garrett Cooper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 27 Apr 2012 00:01:31 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: best possible GJOURNAL device? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 22:01:36 -0000 > power fails). So I'm guessing that if it works with your motherboard, > it will work regardless of the OS. > How it's presented to the OS? ENOCLUE (ask Viking). it is DDR3 DIMM so it is presented as RAM. ENODRIVER in FreeBSD. but could be trivial to implement, if it is known on which memory address (non-translated) this exist. ENOIDEA about price too. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 08:04:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55779106564A for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 08:04:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de) Received: from mail.embedded-brains.de (host-82-135-62-35.customer.m-online.net [82.135.62.35]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9688FC08 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 08:04:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.embedded-brains.de (Postfix, from userid 65534) id C5B0D6528FC; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:56:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.96.31] (eb0011.eb.z [192.168.96.31]) by mail.embedded-brains.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6814C6528FA for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:56:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4F9A5116.6080908@embedded-brains.de> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:56:06 +0200 From: Sebastian Huber User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20110920 SUSE/3.1.15 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: thread0 usage in syncache_socket() X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 08:04:51 -0000 Hi, in syncache_socket() in tcp_syncache.c the global variable thread0 is used to do a in6_pcbconnect() with the ucread of thread0. Why is the thread0 used here and not the one of the current thread? -- Sebastian Huber, embedded brains GmbH Address : Obere Lagerstr. 30, D-82178 Puchheim, Germany Phone : +49 89 18 90 80 79-6 Fax : +49 89 18 90 80 79-9 E-Mail : sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de PGP : Public key available on request. Diese Nachricht ist keine geschäftliche Mitteilung im Sinne des EHUG. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 09:06:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 790D71065673; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:06:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F1F38FC1B; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:06:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id MAA05215; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:06:14 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1SNh81-0007Wn-VU; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:06:14 +0300 Message-ID: <4F9A6180.8090500@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:06:08 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120425 Thunderbird/12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marius Strobl References: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> <20120422212102.GA66855@alchemy.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <20120422212102.GA66855@alchemy.franken.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:06:19 -0000 on 23/04/2012 00:21 Marius Strobl said the following: > On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 06:37:54PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: [snip] >> I am particularly interested in reviews of my attempt to make ZFS boot support >> arch-independent. The arches, of course, would have to add some code to make >> use of that support. Currently I only enabled it for x86. >> > > I can't say much about these patches as a whole as they are rather > big and I'm not aware of all the details of ZFS. However, one bit that > makes the current implementation x86-specific is zfs_dev_init(). If > you could move it to the MD part in the course of these patches that > would be great. I have arranged this in my WIP version of the patch, which I hope to share soon. Need to work out some unrelated details. > If you could also take the second patch in PR 165025 > into account, which I plan to commit once the issue with the current > ofw_disk.c are properly solved, that would be great. Thank you for the heads up. Since I also hope to commit my patch rather soon, I would also appreciate if you keep my changes in mind :-) In fact, I would like to ask you if it would make sense to postpone the patch from the PR until my patch is committed. That should make some things easier to do (e.g. MD zfs_dev_init), but on the other hand some things would become different. Either way, one of the patches would have to be rebased on top of the other. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 09:14:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD5A8106566B; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:14:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 577048FC15; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:14:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id MAA05309; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:14:23 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1SNhFv-0007XH-Gq; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:14:23 +0300 Message-ID: <4F9A6369.5060305@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:14:17 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120425 Thunderbird/12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Andrey V. Elsukov" References: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> <20120422212102.GA66855@alchemy.franken.de> <4F94F56E.1010501@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4F94F56E.1010501@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, John Baldwin , Marius Strobl Subject: Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:14:26 -0000 on 23/04/2012 09:23 Andrey V. Elsukov said the following: > On 23.04.2012 1:21, Marius Strobl wrote: >> I can't say much about these patches as a whole as they are rather big >> and I'm not aware of all the details of ZFS. However, one bit that makes >> the current implementation x86-specific is zfs_dev_init(). If you could >> move it to the MD part in the course of these patches that would be >> great. If you could also take the second patch in PR 165025 into account, >> which I plan to commit once the issue with the current ofw_disk.c are >> properly solved, that would be great. > > I also have some WIP related to moving partition table handling into MD > part. You can look here: http://people.freebsd.org/~ae/sys_boot.diff I like this patch. OTOH, I couldn't help by wonder if it is possible to somehow directly re-use the results of dv_init probing by other drivers (or subset of the drivers, like only 'disk'). E.g. if instead of re-examining the partition tables, we could ask a driver for a list of devices that it discovered. But how to do that is not something that I can answer. > This patch have one problem, there is no way to determine disk size and i'm > thinking about adding ioctl(DIOCGMEDIASIZE) to the "disk" devsw. > -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 10:37:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB398106564A; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 10:37:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ae@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail.kirov.so-ups.ru (mail.kirov.so-ups.ru [178.74.170.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 813B18FC08; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 10:37:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kas30pipe.localhost (localhost.kirov.so-ups.ru [127.0.0.1]) by mail.kirov.so-ups.ru (Postfix) with SMTP id ADFCCB801B; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:37:25 +0400 (MSK) Received: from kirov.so-ups.ru (unknown [172.21.81.1]) by mail.kirov.so-ups.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82F0B8008; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:37:25 +0400 (MSK) Received: by ns.kirov.so-ups.ru (Postfix, from userid 1010) id A14B8BA022; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:37:25 +0400 (MSK) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [10.118.3.52]) by ns.kirov.so-ups.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 682B9BA01D; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:37:25 +0400 (MSK) Message-ID: <4F9A76E5.7000809@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:37:25 +0400 From: "Andrey V. Elsukov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5 (FreeBSD/20051231) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andriy Gapon References: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> <20120422212102.GA66855@alchemy.franken.de> <4F94F56E.1010501@FreeBSD.org> <4F9A6369.5060305@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4F9A6369.5060305@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SpamTest-Version: SMTP-Filter Version 3.0.0 [0284], KAS30/Release X-SpamTest-Info: Not protected Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, John Baldwin , Marius Strobl Subject: Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 10:37:37 -0000 On 27.04.2012 13:14, Andriy Gapon wrote: >> I also have some WIP related to moving partition table handling into MD Oh, i did mean MI part. >> part. You can look here: http://people.freebsd.org/~ae/sys_boot.diff > > I like this patch. OTOH, I couldn't help by wonder if it is possible to > somehow directly re-use the results of dv_init probing by other drivers (or > subset of the drivers, like only 'disk'). E.g. if instead of re-examining the > partition tables, we could ask a driver for a list of devices that it discovered. > But how to do that is not something that I can answer. What you think about this concept: We can implement some MI API to query disks count and each disk parameters (mediasize, sectorsize). This MI code will use some IOCTL that will act with MD "disk"'s devsw->ioctl. devicename.c functions can be changed to use MI DISK API together with PART API, or maybe even moved to the MI code. In the result we will have some MI API to get access to the disks and partitions, that we can use anywhere, e.g. in the ZFS code. -- WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 13:40:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39A551065670; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 13:40:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 112718FC16; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 13:40:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 81125B91C; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:40:23 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:40:14 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p13; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <4F9A5116.6080908@embedded-brains.de> In-Reply-To: <4F9A5116.6080908@embedded-brains.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201204270940.14939.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Sebastian Huber , Robert Watson Subject: Re: thread0 usage in syncache_socket() X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 13:40:24 -0000 On Friday, April 27, 2012 3:56:06 am Sebastian Huber wrote: > Hi, > > in syncache_socket() in tcp_syncache.c the global variable thread0 is used to > do a in6_pcbconnect() with the ucread of thread0. Why is the thread0 used here > and not the one of the current thread? The current thread is generally not all that interesting in this case. Note that this is used for building a socket that will be returned by accept(), not due to a call to connect(), so the only credential establishing this connection would be the user on the remote machine that opened the connection. The current thread for this call is typically an interrupt thread of some sort, but it can also be a netisr thread, or a device driver taskqueue thread, etc. thread0 gives a stable credential to use for creating accepted connections. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 14:07:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F354D1065670; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:07:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63F998FC0C; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:07:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id RAA09079; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:07:07 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <4F9AA80A.6040506@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:07:06 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120426 Thunderbird/12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Andrey V. Elsukov" References: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> <20120422212102.GA66855@alchemy.franken.de> <4F94F56E.1010501@FreeBSD.org> <4F9A6369.5060305@FreeBSD.org> <4F9A76E5.7000809@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4F9A76E5.7000809@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, John Baldwin , Marius Strobl Subject: Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:07:11 -0000 on 27/04/2012 13:37 Andrey V. Elsukov said the following: > What you think about this concept: > We can implement some MI API to query disks count and each disk parameters (mediasize, > sectorsize). This MI code will use some IOCTL that will act with MD "disk"'s devsw->ioctl. > > devicename.c functions can be changed to use MI DISK API together with PART API, > or maybe even moved to the MI code. > > In the result we will have some MI API to get access to the disks and partitions, > that we can use anywhere, e.g. in the ZFS code. Sorry, but I couldn't understand your design. Probably I am missing the bigger picture. I think that for ZFS case it would be sufficient to be able to iterate over detected device names or devspecs. Size and other disk properties do not seem to be needed. Unless I am mistaken, of course. E.g. something akin to what bd_print (dv_print, in the general case) does but oriented towards programmatic use rather than end-user. Maybe all that partition table parsing should be done only once (e.g. in the init method) and the result should be saved. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 14:16:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C91AC106564A for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:16:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ayoung@mosaicarchive.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D2C58FC12 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:16:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so1427491obc.13 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 07:16:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=gIXIlk0Ek5ZBNau973BiCYSZPh2lp5hLUzp55HEMFCQ=; b=oYMxZwfxkxcEJ+UX0kO0jqoDwHRq1wAeQ9IGPvPmtUge8l2rSRB54ApbjDtGcGF/lg f28f/pdMU2ON7Hx9IzM1hz0yPKE4hdrZmFqdS4c91v8OvnHP2Xa1O8CQeVjIg8DzM0Xs wiMLdySkgHk0Hgr07x5ZpNWS8L2r0D6RuOX2w6FmHgW2dzzTCh0Uaj76E70ZJqwZt/N3 uGuKzNHYU/v/B4Rf/5Vaxtna1zwcyAr2u89qPJf4WoxmaRnjHejVLEmvMBA1mJSvolLg ed1ZzL+Q/vjTO7DhbRi+NNhCCI4vqCPpxlckFGRBg3YDUdUKgs9BEFJ95Jg8nAmIgyOK 9Stg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.131.7 with SMTP id oi7mr14405517obb.74.1335536211684; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 07:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.22.106 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 07:16:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [173.76.237.148] Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 10:16:51 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Young To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmegsgqTRQ/NNS8qwteK6Y1lItwgoX/+TBYNXdhTjcxfj34dgz3xG5YifquLbYFJwM96Jxo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:16:53 -0000 After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for implementing large-scale storage servers. In my research I found ZFS and subsequently found FreeBSD. As I learned more about it, I was incredibly impressed. There are so many elements of FreeBSD that I love, I've completely ditched Linux and am deploying FreeBSD exclusively on my company's server infrastructure. I can't help wonder why I hadn't heard all about it before. Sure, I knew the name, but I had never seen it in use, either in college or in over ten years as a software developer since then. In contrast Linux is everywhere! Even though there are so many applications where FreeBSD seems to be a better or at least more mature solution. What are the current efforts to promote and educate people on FreeBSD? I'd love to help spread the word. -- Andrew Young Mosaic Storage Systems, Inc http://www.mosaicarchive.com/ Twitter: @MosaicArchive Facebook: Mosaic From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 15:30:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B049D10657B9 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 15:30:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@dataix.net) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F9FC8FC0A for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 15:30:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iahk25 with SMTP id k25so1508944iah.13 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 08:30:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=dyI9CzRn4GuQRB9E1LWF0acFIJ0dPVVf1dnEErfw1Ws=; b=HX2VqkoaNxvpoY7sLrHG7IYquSu62BdQORsc6Z5zV+VwneqgVqtcGozh55uytRg7Sf ub4RezxilvNT9x+1HMakDx6lbq77XKHp3JyexC1NdOTLIDdPlC+sf7v2bpFTJfjY5ewj 3raA7XOarEiSHzI1La+QEzEZA+9Wbywh58XoQ= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-gm-message-state; bh=dyI9CzRn4GuQRB9E1LWF0acFIJ0dPVVf1dnEErfw1Ws=; b=PbE4kUNQ99NtAQSjtY9IGGEfTBdHM4Ov2wj3ng5hCDrhjO09TkO7kTMT9uvMWd3QJQ /wwx5cGVdn4VwLtLMMbEtUekL7fuFPDabdGt3wMWpXr9nf0xOPzvXb5JRCESdTDu7gqf m3G1HAkWTfkx73MpgmT6ViKN/i81PlOhwnMSn6JRFpPo2P91EGA+2hKxD/fpZ9JGwwJz nANMRvdRm3WnZ7+Oo56CVpdRD0LNJvHvDO+R18yBe7wGECBjO3SzwP6IcFpfrMpDh3W4 Pkrcgas1l4W1VB5aqHKzau89A6HDnXCRJ/pq/hL4QDFT4Q3W+10vA14dLOfbCTn7Ry9R qKfw== Received: by 10.42.169.129 with SMTP id b1mr9718445icz.14.1335540642515; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 08:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (adsl-99-181-130-92.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net. [99.181.130.92]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b11sm6907716igq.7.2012.04.27.08.30.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 27 Apr 2012 08:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3RFUZRQ018788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 27 Apr 2012 11:30:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Received: (from jhellenthal@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q3RFUYXm018785; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 11:30:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 11:30:34 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal To: Andy Young Message-ID: <20120427153034.GA5723@DataIX.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jI8keyz6grp/JLjh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkjmeeYGdzZ2Ce6gs6/eONtClofRhUYOFTBUbghslz99oHE8vBoS4+tY5Qq4tyCU0qYp9vB Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 15:30:43 -0000 --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 10:16:51AM -0400, Andy Young wrote: > After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using > FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for > implementing large-scale storage servers. In my research I found ZFS and > subsequently found FreeBSD. As I learned more about it, I was incredibly > impressed. There are so many elements of FreeBSD that I love, I've > completely ditched Linux and am deploying FreeBSD exclusively on my > company's server infrastructure. I can't help wonder why I hadn't heard a= ll > about it before. Sure, I knew the name, but I had never seen it in use, > either in college or in over ten years as a software developer since then. > In contrast Linux is everywhere! Even though there are so many applicatio= ns > where FreeBSD seems to be a better or at least more mature solution. >=20 > What are the current efforts to promote and educate people on FreeBSD? I'd > love to help spread the word. >=20 This is probably a better discussion for advocacy@... added to CC line. Anyway a central point of contact for further information related to that can be found at http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ Welcome --=20 - (2^(N-1)) --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPmruZAAoJEBSh2Dr1DU7WXvAIAIdKhkoh2Xj41dVIZYV6TKCt gpIi5YEo8t4bo3ZNjN0yF0q6Xfu9Op2RXIbUfBjGecP1PNRK5fV/F+G2WHxvjNuq WS3fKjJsqu/BMFzWPy+ldIcwK1250WdzGwuhxv4M6HW4HvdovJw63EnxkAiXPeQZ OnLhbyVsLe5lUz7CRdpnSDmbgdCt33aDNIuPZY628K6eYO3CRqEStsmNScZ2J+n2 t+gMx2uJ7xvUzwNT+1oosPVybLLKRje6s4I/o4n7M+QS5Qqbbr3EUd2bK9rVwNEB fWRgw08SC9rXu6HtDkQW4DWSt6wRw/xlElZn0Ca5Y7aa/RADR6lGwyQE2t7vIws= =Ic37 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 16:41:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F02EF106564A; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 16:41:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vmagerya@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com (mail-wi0-f178.google.com [209.85.212.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 521FC8FC12; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 16:41:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhq7 with SMTP id hq7so641528wib.13 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:41:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=+TfWfUCzmoB8qyPdbf6UiJ5tyY+bwkMpEsK/qgME24A=; b=o12Efjmjw2i1VTkSJ2dh5DhQcP3QUIQdmkdJC/Ne1xtEkg1Sdxl4qudcwIU4GImfXo oRpwbQJf8FjeoHjtwXhyhAy0DYzuTAxyG1hN4uODVrH+sS2+KuW8pXMc15oeacpSmdn0 wWjTvG4zUd7mTlz3QpaSV7kH2q5z3FX0LFSDWmBLhE1mVn44UOUlKYPYig5JuWGk5qq5 mwhoPqxieIUBJ5hokf3CD20Su9zFoI0AKptRO3+OfuqO32GGMDFfVo3yDLkVYRa5gRRv qFPh/0Df/Icc/Roa05bYwfYBLUcB4xIjpYbc0nktc2+LLtnWCvrg44VNhpu6LpJv1oWi Ee9A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.137.97 with SMTP id x75mr7579591wei.25.1335544870092; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.114.79 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:41:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 19:41:09 +0300 Message-ID: From: Vitaly Magerya To: Andy Young Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 16:41:12 -0000 Andy Young wrote: > After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using > FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for > implementing large-scale storage servers. In my research I found ZFS and > subsequently found FreeBSD. As I learned more about it, I was incredibly > impressed. There are so many elements of FreeBSD that I love, Can you name a few? > I've > completely ditched Linux and am deploying FreeBSD exclusively on my > company's server infrastructure. It would be interesting to read about your infrastructure, the reasons why you found FreeBSD to be a better fit than what you used before, challenges during deployment and migration, any resulting performance/maintenance improvements, etc. A short article or a blog post with the above maybe? > I can't help wonder why I hadn't heard all > about it before. Sure, I knew the name, but I had never seen it in use, > either in college or in over ten years as a software developer since then. > In contrast Linux is everywhere! Even though there are so many applications > where FreeBSD seems to be a better or at least more mature solution. > > What are the current efforts to promote and educate people on FreeBSD? I'd > love to help spread the word. (Adding freebsd-advocacy@ to CC). From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 18:27:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6349C1065740 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 18:27:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C806B8FC0C for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 18:27:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3RIR81s005867; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 20:27:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q3RIR7o5005864; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 20:27:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 20:27:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Andy Young In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 27 Apr 2012 20:27:08 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 18:27:18 -0000 > After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using > FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 20:05:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1903F1065675 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 20:05:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82AB58FC08 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 20:05:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3RK5hqk006462 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:05:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q3RK5hkw006459 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:05:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:05:42 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:05:43 +0200 (CEST) Subject: NFS - slow X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 20:05:46 -0000 is there any way to speed up NFS server? from what i noticed: - reads works fast and good, like accessed locally, readahead up to maxbsize works fine on large files etc. - write works terribly. it performs sync on every write IMHO, setting vfs.nfsrv.async=1 improves things SLIGHTLY, but still - writes are sent to hard disk every single block - no clustering. am i doing something wrong or is it that broken? i tried user space nfs from ports, it's funny but it's performance is actually better after i removed fsync from code. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 20:40:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CAAE1065670 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 20:40:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: from gizmo.acns.msu.edu (gizmo.acns.msu.edu [35.8.1.43]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE41C8FC0C for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 20:40:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gizmo.acns.msu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gizmo.acns.msu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id q3RKVIwI002086; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 16:31:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: (from jerrymc@localhost) by gizmo.acns.msu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id q3RKVHDQ002085; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 16:31:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jerrymc) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 16:31:17 -0400 From: Jerry McAllister To: Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Andy Young Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 20:40:24 -0000 On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using > >FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for > > Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need > to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. > > Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded > and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in the field and do not know better than that. Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some more information and encouragement I would guess. ////jerry > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 21:18:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 209D8106564A for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:18:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D47B68FC0C for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:18:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so1990690obc.13 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:18:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=GMa7SsVfQnydnnas3cJ3IwsUaMT3XTKU7a6ViycH/Bs=; b=GfydoHYJ9pEnom2SEEpKmm7cDZHQcgsgQjoXqjTVhkzUViLuF46evCgP73EIaHHx+k 9Hk2fimgzsE0U0atAMCLy88+vQ+Dk/XD/pKEH6xAAi+8VXFm6jVJCvAO+j0kfPQtE8y6 WmEuZGmwqSTaRSWTa6ajwZH6/1kFOF1buMYEt5PXsUzg1icebUxJCZSz2n9lhqbqc/xP 1szLJzSZvIQIvCUIdw7Jz89qJktyHKlTvwCZTLHPm5dvrxODtMLg/HliOriP/hj8s6B4 KxaL4t13/kyLH+DdaJj1/TojP9n9GBHl9tmBHgkx3xleQ3Wna+wGCzE1fo3Q5QBIcTKR 2k4A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.51.41 with SMTP id h9mr15743962obo.7.1335561528176; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:18:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.154.70 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:18:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:18:47 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: Jerry McAllister Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , Andy Young , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:18:49 -0000 On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Jerry McAllister wrote: > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > >After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using > > >FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for > > > > Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need > > to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. > > > > Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded > > and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. > > Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. > Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but > there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are > not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know > that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in > the field and do not know better than that. > > Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then > download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to > be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. > They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too > lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some > more information and encouragement I would guess. > > ////jerry > > > My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really very tiring for experienced users . The first thing for FreeBSD to promote its use is to be done is to remedy this obstacle . All over the years , this fact is ignored , and left as it is , with a counter argument that FreeBSD is for servers . If we stick into this idea indefinitely , FreeBSD user base will not exceed a few with respect to number of desktop users because number of servers with respect to number of desktop users may be considered very small . Such a small user base is not sufficient supply a "breath" to FreeBSD to make it live . An important example is www.wikipedia.org which I mentioned many times . In yearly campaigns , they are collecting more than 15 MILLION US dollars as donations where average donations being around 5 US dollars per donation . Contrary to this , www.freebsdfoundation.org has a yearly budget less than HALF a MILLION US dollars . If the news I read is correct , Mozilla Foundation is getting 300 MILLION US dollars from Google for specifying its name in its search bar . Failure point for the FreeBSD is its usage difficulty and a small number of user base . Another point is that server installers are highly educated with respect to desktop installers and their numbers are small with respect to desktop users . For them , it is very easy to "harden" FreeBSD after installation if ever it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple question to ask : Will this be used as a Server ? With respect to answer to this question , even during installation a "hardened" FreeBSD may be installed . Another , for me , irrespective , idea is to mention PC-BSD in place of FreeBSD . With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about PC-BSD is that it is "complete failure" and mentioning it in front of FreeBSD is only to create another obstacle for it . Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 21:29:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 377851065672 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:29:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: from gizmo.acns.msu.edu (gizmo.acns.msu.edu [35.8.1.43]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6EA68FC0A for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:29:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gizmo.acns.msu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gizmo.acns.msu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id q3RLQGP2002423; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:26:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: (from jerrymc@localhost) by gizmo.acns.msu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id q3RLQFf6002422; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:26:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jerrymc) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:26:15 -0400 From: Jerry McAllister To: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Message-ID: <20120427212615.GC2231@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: Jerry McAllister , Wojciech Puchar , Andy Young , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:29:51 -0000 On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 05:18:47PM -0400, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Jerry McAllister wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > > >After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using > > > >FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for > > > > > > Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need > > > to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. > > > > > > Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded > > > and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. > > > > Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. > > Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but > > there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are > > not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know > > that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in > > the field and do not know better than that. > > > > Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then > > download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to > > be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. > > They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too > > lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some > > more information and encouragement I would guess. > > > > ////jerry > > > > > > > > > My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its > installation structure : > There, you are wrong. If you choose to take the defaults, you can breeze through installation just setting IP and hostame and nameserver the same as on any Lunix I have ever installed. But, FreeBSD does make options much more plentiful than Linux and that is one of the things that makes FreeBSD so powerful and useful. > > It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it > is . Completely not true. > > In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT > root , > can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters > which it is approximately ZERO . > > Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT > use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting > MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . I never set anything special for using USB or CD, etc. I just put in some media and mount them and use them. I don't need to do anything special in installation. I have always had to muck with rc stuff and especially the horrid iptables every time I have installed a Lunic. Enough, though. I doubt you will be convinced. ////jerry > > This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really > very tiring for experienced users . > > The first thing for FreeBSD to promote its use is to be done is to remedy > this obstacle . > > > All over the years , this fact is ignored , and left as it is , with a > counter argument that FreeBSD is for servers . > > If we stick into this idea indefinitely , FreeBSD user base will not exceed > a few with respect to number of desktop users because number of servers > with respect to number of desktop users may be considered very small . Such > a small user base is not sufficient supply a "breath" to FreeBSD to make it > live . > > > An important example is www.wikipedia.org which I mentioned many times . > In yearly campaigns , they are collecting more than 15 MILLION US dollars > as donations where average donations being around 5 US dollars per donation > . > > Contrary to this , www.freebsdfoundation.org has a yearly budget less than > HALF a MILLION US dollars . > > If the news I read is correct , Mozilla Foundation is getting 300 MILLION > US dollars from Google for specifying its name in its search bar . > > > Failure point for the FreeBSD is its usage difficulty and a small number of > user base . > > Another point is that server installers are highly educated with respect to > desktop installers and their numbers are small with respect to desktop > users . > > For them , it is very easy to "harden" FreeBSD after installation if ever > it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple question to ask > : > > Will this be used as a Server ? > > With respect to answer to this question , even during installation a > "hardened" FreeBSD may be installed . > > Another , for me , irrespective , idea is to mention PC-BSD in place of > FreeBSD . > > With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about PC-BSD > is that it is "complete failure" and mentioning it in front of FreeBSD is > only to create another obstacle for it . > > Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a > simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . > > Thank you very much . > > Mehmet Erol Sanliturk From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 21:30:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 358B8106564A for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:30:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E21738FC1C for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:30:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so762672qcs.13 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:30:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Ay3RoPOZ9zqNcCOe053E3VI6jWU8jEtQ7Ow8JeNbXl4=; b=qcgh1www0lj2hchHu0bkfbN9u7JJ6AUN4KrJyiZab69H/giEtfrY6qMj3ptaPJXRui +W3wvwx2G9yK2H7jegsOHalSP3XONuNmj54mauyWjWSXpQylgLalQhF6mayHAf2r7xb/ OnDA6dWbqX5cSXSOBOzOgEjS8MShFfnXWR8CoOuX6D2z2y8pG9Vmem//TZJdvyZ1fYaJ kJhOEaP7zBDIvNIgTyE6MRgMxZ+hb/v8Zng/E7CK6EGbSgR6d8+TQ7zIFBQMKtAeolx8 NDjfBrEGYOuTPSCPIbIBUphEWFvysPSmC/kfuKRv11YkAtLt/tm9wzujhyzmtu8ens4Q EqAQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.101.72 with SMTP id b8mr5678536qao.53.1335562242234; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.91.138 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:30:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:30:42 -0700 Message-ID: From: Freddie Cash To: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:30:43 -0000 On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its > installation structure : > > It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it > is . > > In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT > root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters > which it is approximately ZERO . > > Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT > use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting > MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . > > This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really > very tiring for experienced users . And that's a good thing. :) It forces people to learn. And it allows people to create the system *they* need, instead of being forced to use the system "the project" thinks everyone needs. We spend a good 2-3 hours customising Ubuntu Server and Debian Linux installs to make them work they way *we* want them to, with the software *we* want, and the configurations *we* need. Most of that time is spent undoing all the "helpful" abstractions that Ubuntu/Debian devs think make life simpler (and they do, *IF* you use a GUI to manage things, but CLI users are left in the cold). Just look at the horrible mess that is GRUB2 configuration on Ubuntu/Debina, with shell script snippets spread through 4 different directories. Great for GUI tools to parse and update, but a royal pain for CLI users. Compared to FreeBSD where you get a nice, barebones system where we spend some time *building up* the system we want, instead of tearing down/removing excess crud. The beauty of FreeBSD as well, is that there are other projects that build on FreeBSD to create super-simple-easy-to-use-ready-from-the-word-go setups, like PC-BSD. :) > With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about PC-BSD > is that it is "complete failure" and mentioning it in front of FreeBSD is > only to create another obstacle for it . Everything you rant about is covered by PC-BSD ... yet, you don't want PC-BSD. :) > Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a > simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . Considering how long it's been used by various people around the world, I would hardly call PC-BSD "untested". Maybe it's time to fire up a VM and try it? You may be pleasantly surprised that everything you are complaining about is there, ready and waiting for you to click on it. > Thank you very much . > > Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 22:33:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7054106566B for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:33:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from prvs=146455e263=killing@multiplay.co.uk) Received: from mail1.multiplay.co.uk (mail1.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.96.23]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565DC8FC0C for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:33:44 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Processed: mail1.multiplay.co.uk, Fri, 27 Apr 2012 23:33:16 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on mail1.multiplay.co.uk X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.0 required=6.0 tests=USER_IN_WHITELIST shortcircuit=ham autolearn=disabled version=3.2.5 Received: from r2d2 ([188.220.16.49]) by mail1.multiplay.co.uk (mail1.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.96.23]) (MDaemon PRO v10.0.4) with ESMTP id md50019488757.msg for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 23:33:16 +0100 X-MDRemoteIP: 188.220.16.49 X-Return-Path: prvs=146455e263=killing@multiplay.co.uk X-Envelope-From: killing@multiplay.co.uk X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> From: "Steven Hartland" To: "Mehmet Erol Sanliturk" , "Jerry McAllister" References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 23:32:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , Andy Young , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:33:45 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehmet Erol Sanliturk" > My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its > installation structure : > > > It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it > is . I disagree, we find quite the opposite; FreeBSD's current install is perfect its quick, doesn't install stuff we don't need and leaves a very nice base. Linux on the other had takes ages, asks way to many questions, has issues with some hardware with mouse and gui not work properly making the install difficult to navigate, but most import its quite hard to get a nice simple base as there are so many options, which is default with FreeBSD. In essence it depends on what you want and how you use the OS. For the way we use FreeBSD on our servers its perfect. So if your trying to suggest its not suitable for all that's is incorrect as it depends on what you want :) Regards Steve ================================================ This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to postmaster@multiplay.co.uk. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 22:59:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AB2E106564A for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:59:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from esa-annu.mail.uoguelph.ca (esa-annu.mail.uoguelph.ca [131.104.91.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F3518FC0A for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:59:51 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqAEAJsjm0+DaFvO/2dsb2JhbABBA4VorSeCCQEBAQMBAQEBICsgCwUHDw4HAwICDRkCKQEJJgYIBwQBHASHZwULqBiSZIEviViCbIISgRgEk06CL4ERjy+DBIFA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,493,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="166996672" Received: from erie.cs.uoguelph.ca (HELO zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca) ([131.104.91.206]) by esa-annu-pri.mail.uoguelph.ca with ESMTP; 27 Apr 2012 18:58:48 -0400 Received: from zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B9A7B4013; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 18:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 18:58:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Rick Macklem To: Steven Hartland Message-ID: <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> In-Reply-To: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [172.17.91.203] X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.10_GA_2692 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/6.0.10_GA_2692) Cc: Jerry McAllister , Wojciech Puchar , Mehmet Erol Sanliturk , Andy Young , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:59:51 -0000 Steven Hartland wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehmet Erol Sanliturk" > > > My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is > > its > > installation structure : > > > > > > It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution > > directly as it > > is . > > I disagree, we find quite the opposite; FreeBSD's current install is > perfect > its quick, doesn't install stuff we don't need and leaves a very nice > base. > > Linux on the other had takes ages, asks way to many questions, has > issues > with some hardware with mouse and gui not work properly making the > install difficult to navigate, but most import its quite hard to get a > nice simple > base as there are so many options, which is default with FreeBSD. > > In essence it depends on what you want and how you use the OS. For > the way we use FreeBSD on our servers its perfect. So if your trying > to suggest its not suitable for all that's is incorrect as it depends > on what > you want :) > I worked for the CS dept. at a university for 30years. What I observed was that students were usually enthusiastic about trying a new os. However, these days, they have almost no idea how to work in a command line environment. If they installed FreeBSD, it would be zapped off their disk within minutes of the install completing and they'd forget about it. They install and like distros like Ubuntu, which install and work the way they expect (yes, they expect a GUI desktop, etc). When they get out in industry, they remember Linux, but won't remember FreeBSD (at least not in a good way). Now, I am not suggesting that FreeBSD try and generate Ubuntu-like desktop distros. However, it might be nice if the top level web page let people know that the installs there are not desktop systems and point them to PC-BSD (or whatever other desktop distro there might be?) for a desktop install. (I know, the original poster wasn't a PC-BSD fan, but others seem happy with it. I'll admit I've never tried it, but then, I'm not a GUI desktop guy.:-) Just my $0.00 worth, rick > Regards > Steve > > ================================================ > This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. > and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of > misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, > printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in > it. > > In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission > please telephone +44 845 868 1337 > or return the E.mail to postmaster@multiplay.co.uk. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 23:13:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9763106566C for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 23:13:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6E7C8FC0A for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 23:13:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so2138192obc.13 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 16:13:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=vR40295Oj+LvGyj4k4QVIFyzDl6QBe30v+EUi9N0z3Q=; b=qHoUlWJHpraGZuy8njbOeaxoJGbO0uVa25uaB+QlF1CivN6Q+l1t5CBs4Zw/hnv+Do gqkhKSxVWok0qL3npRJXPWNODkTVF/5dHPFM1785jjzfl7+bVgS/yduMjm4eWhRS0Hzk QIJ7H8D8ZX0EfP+mu6qZ1kPgVzDD9SeCZwEXfFK0FetmSJplOITOKm+Xe9v0Om0a/kTK GKYwsrHwia6pmjKA3RShfR/pPbn4ux9PBl8A+ZuOzNQdbDitwDXp5pF1SyoP2/8oJs73 amHOtQVc7txA7D0Oh3f73o7qMzRjxerAV7qJdjpxsBVUFGZh3pB+vsdzTG1DqFbxzBhG HBcA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.51.41 with SMTP id h9mr16103606obo.7.1335568416698; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 16:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.154.70 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 16:13:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 19:13:36 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: Steven Hartland Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Jerry McAllister , Wojciech Puchar , Andy Young , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 23:13:43 -0000 On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 6:32 PM, Steven Hartland wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehmet Erol Sanliturk" > > My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its >> installation structure : >> >> >> It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as >> it >> is . >> > > I disagree, we find quite the opposite; FreeBSD's current install is > perfect > its quick, doesn't install stuff we don't need and leaves a very nice base. > > Linux on the other had takes ages, asks way to many questions, has issues > with some hardware with mouse and gui not work properly making the > install difficult to navigate, but most import its quite hard to get a > nice simple > base as there are so many options, which is default with FreeBSD. > > In essence it depends on what you want and how you use the OS. For > the way we use FreeBSD on our servers its perfect. So if your trying > to suggest its not suitable for all that's is incorrect as it depends on > what > you want :) > > Regards > Steve > > As I mentioned in my previous messages , the new bsdinstall is a very nice and very good installer . My ideas are not about goodness of installer programs , but related to installation structure especially for desktop users . Therefore , it is not suitable to mix these concepts . I am NOT claiming that Linux is better than FreeBSD . I find such comparisons very useless . Each has its advantages and disadvantages . Some Linux distributions require much knowledge for install than FreeBSD requirements . Some distributions are very good for installation structure for desktop users ( for example , Fedora , Mandriva , Mageia , Debian , and some others ) If I repeat once more , I am talking about usage easiness after default installation of FreeBSD by ordinary ( means NOT being computing expert ) new desktop users . It is obvious that if any one attempts to install and maintain a server , it is likely that she or he is much more knowledgeable than a new user . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 23:25:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C851106564A for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 23:25:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C1008FC19 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 23:25:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so2150944obc.13 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 16:25:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=2LlXH6HhdD+Ud/mlJaS+jSrOTTs+y7/9wYlyNGDeTsk=; b=q2TWrr4rUO+ekymeB6JAWTVKJlXhFzP02qK0rp0XvqfkE/8lGqaHHDkXa7g17Z168o QC/JrOqV9nBCpfzOPM+XV2fVH+dWxWJklnh+u9AjrG481Atpxa0pbsFQ0MWSq4OKI1lj l6VP5tsq9DFGqmy2aC7tHr4eMoxYG6qbIIWROzqBMoX0L+ayKWsEnx3iXVHScB630hkZ hkWkNkv38i3SGAC3LPtDssdrKimiGGVEW1qY0FouB465NYf39hB1GxDkb043bamG7dBz lhRb5aNUWyJgpj586Xkmo1OR3hLVCSc8aH9sTWkt1vtp0Jfx98MvO6ybK71gyjuSWQRK XP1Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.164.69 with SMTP id yo5mr15425242obb.17.1335569141706; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 16:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.154.70 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 16:25:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> References: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 19:25:41 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: Rick Macklem Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Jerry McAllister , Wojciech Puchar , Steven Hartland , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Andy Young Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 23:25:42 -0000 On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 6:58 PM, Rick Macklem wrote: > Steven Hartland wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mehmet Erol Sanliturk" > > > > > My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is > > > its > > > installation structure : > > > > > > > > > It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution > > > directly as it > > > is . > > > > I disagree, we find quite the opposite; FreeBSD's current install is > > perfect > > its quick, doesn't install stuff we don't need and leaves a very nice > > base. > > > > Linux on the other had takes ages, asks way to many questions, has > > issues > > with some hardware with mouse and gui not work properly making the > > install difficult to navigate, but most import its quite hard to get a > > nice simple > > base as there are so many options, which is default with FreeBSD. > > > > In essence it depends on what you want and how you use the OS. For > > the way we use FreeBSD on our servers its perfect. So if your trying > > to suggest its not suitable for all that's is incorrect as it depends > > on what > > you want :) > > > I worked for the CS dept. at a university for 30years. What I observed > was that students were usually enthusiastic about trying a new os. However, > these days, they have almost no idea how to work in a command line > environment. > > If they installed FreeBSD, it would be zapped off their disk within minutes > of the install completing and they'd forget about it. > > They install and like distros like Ubuntu, which install and work the way > they expect (yes, they expect a GUI desktop, etc). > > When they get out in industry, they remember Linux, but won't remember > FreeBSD (at least not in a good way). > > Now, I am not suggesting that FreeBSD try and generate Ubuntu-like desktop > distros. However, it might be nice if the top level web page let people > know that the installs there are not desktop systems and point them to > PC-BSD (or whatever other desktop distro there might be?) for a desktop > install. > (I know, the original poster wasn't a PC-BSD fan, but others seem happy > with it. I'll admit I've never tried it, but then, I'm not a GUI desktop > guy.:-) > > Just my $0.00 worth, rick > > > Regards > > Steve > > Absolutely I do NOT have any idea against PC-BSD . My wish is that it should be much better than its current state . My suggestion is that it needs testing before its releases especially on bare metal with new and previously installed different operating system hard disks . Installation success on a VM ( Virtual Machine ) is very misleading because a VM is an artificial environment and it is supplying some services which they are not available in a bare metal machine . FreeBSD installation and boot style are very nice . Personally I dislike very much Ubuntu-like installs ( nothing is displayed about what is going on ) and I never use it ( in spite of I am installing each release of it ) . My ideas are about "parameters set by installation" for "desktop users" , not for computing experts . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 27 22:16:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79176106564A; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:16:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nox@jelal.kn-bremen.de) Received: from smtp.kn-bremen.de (gelbbaer.kn-bremen.de [78.46.108.116]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30B0C8FC14; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:16:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kn-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id EBCD11E00713; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 00:16:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from triton8.kn-bremen.de (noident@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q3RMFnlN055067; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 00:15:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from nox@triton8.kn-bremen.de) Received: (from nox@localhost) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.3/Submit) id q3RMFmZo055066; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 00:15:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from nox) From: Juergen Lock Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 00:15:48 +0200 To: Juergen Lock Message-ID: <20120427221548.GA54848@triton8.kn-bremen.de> References: <20120424210838.GA9258@triton8.kn-bremen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120424210838.GA9258@triton8.kn-bremen.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 23:43:23 +0000 Cc: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: serial lirc driver for testing (and a book review) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 22:16:38 -0000 I have now updated the shar and patch to uart(4) code from head (instead of 9.0), fixed read() not respecting O_NONBLOCK, and improved behaviour at kldunload: http://people.freebsd.org/~nox/tmp/uart-lirc-preliminary-002.patch and http://people.freebsd.org/~nox/tmp/uartlirc-preliminary-002.shar If someone would like to comment on the code I'd be grateful! :) On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 11:08:38PM +0200, Juergen Lock wrote: > Hi! > > For those that don't read forums.freebsd.org: I posted a short review > of "FreeBSD Device Drivers: A Guide for the Intrepid" by Joseph Kong, > > http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?p=175029 > > and wrote a serial lirc driver in the process. If you want to test > it extract the shar, run `make DEBUG_FLAGS=-g' in the extracted uartlirc > dir, then copy uartlirc.ko and uartlirc.ko.symbols to /boot/modules, > reboot to loader prompt, do `load uartlirc.ko' and `boot -v'. > (or add `uartlirc_load="YES"' to loader.conf and reboot.) > > After that make sure you have the comms/lirc port installed, then > you should be able to run: > > mode2 -d /dev/lirc0 > > or if you have X, > > xmode2 -d /dev/lirc0 > > and see pulses and spaces reported when triggering a remote at the > receiver, and using irrecord and lircd should work as normal too, > see the pkg-message of the comms/lirc port which can be shown like > this: > > pkg_info -D lirc\* |less > > Enjoy, :) > Juergen From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 28 00:06:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4F32106564A for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 00:06:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from c.hutchinson0@yahoo.com) Received: from nm26-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm26-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 62EEE8FC15 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 00:06:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.138.90.53] by nm26.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2012 00:06:34 -0000 Received: from [98.138.84.46] by tm6.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2012 00:06:34 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp114.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2012 00:06:34 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1335571594; bh=01Kkcibq8YYgg64ciNeqJXnIfV9cHIPeUiqR/MdhFVY=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:X-Face:X-Mailer:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=S45jDBT2TROs3S1gogkxLspA3VAFT2adQsJTPoxmtBrD5692DNOZdcCazXIsmYN2gg6dzR0jGCrlt/0pyNq0nG84m9s7t5r8oSK8J8Uf//T5FyEojYsENqmiPxsV7b9pbq4mO1FxM4IskiF3yBoLe8FzKGwndJzMNdGM667q2vw= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 762046.3592.bm@smtp114.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: nxQqz6MVM1lKjoC0LOzb8Gg2XSoQrDDeXZ2Aeund_dyhru8 y1yquL1sWaGSZVphpIjtoJzrj2vnTBvyD8ra8EX3YQQ4aFg7siATWkJwn0Ct qjh1Olp9fE.jzlZInkDO0XLJDkrs_sI3XmgGkBkdFainrJfu9ax7Lmf_NMlP RB7B9xerKWHC_KGwBtJLFKGxFgYqY4lF_cxQ1fAJ5K9SzF8JJ_F0P2bmqkT9 Pbzh.1OkOXxH5MbVM0IJrWom6EasoBOYPlsyYs2z9zwlCsoLGWE2BbwjGdIw S6cvo98zkSq5Agvr17eyTRfJ7D0VKRqkQInEeBbNMpv_0IQjAylKt25TmjH2 brABvx4.mhPZwiNoyX2itsDYmNaboolOjDSPI2oYhey1QGnizjxNBY.f7WSb zytToWwgQh7Dl_8p2c4s2.1A7QeQjBo70tZ5h8l5xpEQFnJ8PI7FPDXNU04Q MFyaOEujIaNU9rDl4NLJyz6xQ9ccSZpOoy4HgObGVXbBSSN8_NWGhkjWvf6D QRRqVU3FW1jRAfVQA5_acDQ-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: uW3vktqswBBwhzUUqSfIo9IQDlOyJjOVATmsCrk- Received: from virus.local (c.hutchinson0@107.62.223.182 with login) by smtp114.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2012 17:06:28 -0700 PDT Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:06:34 -0700 From: c.hutchinson0@yahoo.com To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120427170634.52a1675a@virus.local> In-Reply-To: References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> X-Face: $mXi*82up^b>]TbwAyL%A8i^<*; noU6K:r#25QhoV@u[FYZ}`:LJ.g6+'oVI^|LuV~\+3i"#++*|t74; --SZKI/!BFCopG(kR$}T=J6uPma-=qk5ZhU#S">\hUKl{g((V7*MGgn>T~_cFs-UQU4b+o7Jiv List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 00:06:35 -0000 Greetings... On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:18:47 -0400 Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Jerry McAllister > wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > > >After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started > > > >using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a > > > >solution for > > > > > > Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or > > > maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from > > > big users. > > > > > > Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are > > > loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. > > > > Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. > > Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but > > there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are > > not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know > > that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in > > the field and do not know better than that. > > > > Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then > > download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to > > be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. > > They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too > > lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some > > more information and encouragement I would guess. > > > > ////jerry > > > > > > > > > My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its > installation structure : > > > It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly > as it is . > > In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the > user , NOT root , > can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of > parameters which it is approximately ZERO . > > > Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can > NOT use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without > setting MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. > ) . > > This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a > really very tiring for experienced users . > > The first thing for FreeBSD to promote its use is to be done is to > remedy this obstacle . > > > All over the years , this fact is ignored , and left as it is , with a > counter argument that FreeBSD is for servers . > > If we stick into this idea indefinitely , FreeBSD user base will not > exceed a few with respect to number of desktop users because number > of servers with respect to number of desktop users may be considered > very small . Such a small user base is not sufficient supply a > "breath" to FreeBSD to make it live . > > > An important example is www.wikipedia.org which I mentioned many > times . In yearly campaigns , they are collecting more than 15 > MILLION US dollars as donations where average donations being around > 5 US dollars per donation . > > Contrary to this , www.freebsdfoundation.org has a yearly budget less > than HALF a MILLION US dollars . > > If the news I read is correct , Mozilla Foundation is getting 300 > MILLION US dollars from Google for specifying its name in its search > bar . > > > Failure point for the FreeBSD is its usage difficulty and a small > number of user base . > > Another point is that server installers are highly educated with > respect to desktop installers and their numbers are small with > respect to desktop users . > > For them , it is very easy to "harden" FreeBSD after installation if > ever it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple > question to ask : > > Will this be used as a Server ? > > With respect to answer to this question , even during installation a > "hardened" FreeBSD may be installed . > > Another , for me , irrespective , idea is to mention PC-BSD in place > of FreeBSD . > > With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about > PC-BSD is that it is "complete failure" and mentioning it in front of > FreeBSD is only to create another obstacle for it . > > Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a > simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . > > Thank you very much . > > Mehmet Erol Sanliturk I'm wondering if spinning up a "live DVD" desktop version, using GENERIC, and/or Gnome/KDE might be a good option to take FreeBSD for a test drive. That'd give new ppl to FreeBSD an oportunity to try-before-commit. I'd envision the DVD having links on the desktop to all the important info regarding the setup, and use of a *BSD system -- including the pre-requisits to setup/install. It'd give them a "hands on" experience, so they'd know in advance, what to expect. It might also be an image that'd permit something like dd if=/path/freebsd9-kde.img of=/dev/hd/slice||partition While I /know/ PC-BSD offers something similar, I just thought something geared more towards a FULL FreeBSD experience, that includes pointers to LEARNING FreeBSD -- everything you ever wanted to know about FreeBSD, but were afraid || too lazy to ask. ;) my $0.00 worth :-) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 28 00:12:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B12F11065678 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 00:12:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 705708FC12 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 00:12:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so2200576obc.13 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:12:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=PF2McLFmknMiwMpmClHhC/n5QZ3quNB99mz9t2MI8jc=; b=1J5x8az5ygDMwSCbhwFAy96W8CVnghqt/ZEvd3OarkoufT1DqyUOtJQ0vUvS91ymM5 tS9vO0ykr/z9t6vhjvU8L369oTiRrNTclSI1ToXy/QZGKMP7biqbNJg9dqBsjBedaanu cO/E1EPv/w/xn0qw3Jla8nSSmZhRCkq8fP0N5j3GGvrXbeTpKKzBSnFp+937bxGRHkkE V2Dqi5gx+ara1+8qvszgv3ATIpsGCorhAH0DjCc9rG1EXIj5PiFSwU1zFvZmWFHDJCUT yZ1uFmWRLW8UtyfCAgdKCbplb/uuSc0kGzJJV+1xBvr52sGG+Lg/Wc1uUovCMJcUey/Y E8Eg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.18.137 with SMTP id w9mr1744099oed.7.1335571970849; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.154.70 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:12:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120427170634.52a1675a@virus.local> References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> <20120427170634.52a1675a@virus.local> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 20:12:50 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: c.hutchinson0@yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 00:12:51 -0000 On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:06 PM, wrote: > Greetings... > > On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:18:47 -0400 > Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Jerry McAllister > > wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > > > > >After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started > > > > >using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a > > > > >solution for > > > > > > > > Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or > > > > maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from > > > > big users. > > > > > > > > Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are > > > > loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. > > > > > > Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. > > > Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but > > > there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are > > > not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know > > > that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in > > > the field and do not know better than that. > > > > > > Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then > > > download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to > > > be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. > > > They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too > > > lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some > > > more information and encouragement I would guess. > > > > > > ////jerry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its > > installation structure : > > > > > > It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly > > as it is . > > > > In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the > > user , NOT root , > > can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of > > parameters which it is approximately ZERO . > > > > > > Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can > > NOT use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without > > setting MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. > > ) . > > > > This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a > > really very tiring for experienced users . > > > > The first thing for FreeBSD to promote its use is to be done is to > > remedy this obstacle . > > > > > > All over the years , this fact is ignored , and left as it is , with a > > counter argument that FreeBSD is for servers . > > > > If we stick into this idea indefinitely , FreeBSD user base will not > > exceed a few with respect to number of desktop users because number > > of servers with respect to number of desktop users may be considered > > very small . Such a small user base is not sufficient supply a > > "breath" to FreeBSD to make it live . > > > > > > An important example is www.wikipedia.org which I mentioned many > > times . In yearly campaigns , they are collecting more than 15 > > MILLION US dollars as donations where average donations being around > > 5 US dollars per donation . > > > > Contrary to this , www.freebsdfoundation.org has a yearly budget less > > than HALF a MILLION US dollars . > > > > If the news I read is correct , Mozilla Foundation is getting 300 > > MILLION US dollars from Google for specifying its name in its search > > bar . > > > > > > Failure point for the FreeBSD is its usage difficulty and a small > > number of user base . > > > > Another point is that server installers are highly educated with > > respect to desktop installers and their numbers are small with > > respect to desktop users . > > > > For them , it is very easy to "harden" FreeBSD after installation if > > ever it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple > > question to ask : > > > > Will this be used as a Server ? > > > > With respect to answer to this question , even during installation a > > "hardened" FreeBSD may be installed . > > > > Another , for me , irrespective , idea is to mention PC-BSD in place > > of FreeBSD . > > > > With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about > > PC-BSD is that it is "complete failure" and mentioning it in front of > > FreeBSD is only to create another obstacle for it . > > > > Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a > > simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . > > > > Thank you very much . > > > > Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > > I'm wondering if spinning up a "live DVD" desktop version, using > GENERIC, and/or Gnome/KDE might be a good option to take FreeBSD > for a test drive. That'd give new ppl to FreeBSD an oportunity to > try-before-commit. I'd envision the DVD having links on the > desktop to all the important info regarding the setup, and use of > a *BSD system -- including the pre-requisits to setup/install. It'd > give them a "hands on" experience, so they'd know in advance, what > to expect. It might also be an image that'd permit something like > dd if=/path/freebsd9-kde.img of=/dev/hd/slice||partition > While I /know/ PC-BSD offers something similar, I just thought > something geared more towards a FULL FreeBSD experience, that > includes pointers to LEARNING FreeBSD -- everything you ever > wanted to know about FreeBSD, but were afraid || too lazy to ask. ;) > > my $0.00 worth :-) > > There is such a very nice distribution : http://ghostbsd.org/ Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 28 05:38:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BD34106566B for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 05:38:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABA138FC0C for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 05:38:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3S5cBNI008817; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:38:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q3S5cAup008814; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:38:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:38:10 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Jerry McAllister In-Reply-To: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> Message-ID: References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:38:11 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Andy Young Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 05:38:16 -0000 >> and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. > > Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. possibly but this is what i observe. > Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but > there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are > not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know > that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in > the field and do not know better than that. Those would not benefit from FreeBSD or anything else. 99.9% of computer users are actually toying with them. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 28 05:39:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CACCF1065678 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 05:39:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 354178FC18 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 05:39:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3S5dQCa008824; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:39:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q3S5dQQp008821; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:39:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:39:25 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:39:26 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Jerry McAllister , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Andy Young Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 05:39:28 -0000 > > My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : > > > It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . > > In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , > can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . why do you try to position this OS as windows/Mac OS replacement? Unix will never be and is not designed for it, but for users that want to have real control of computers. Linux got this was and fell. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 28 05:40:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52831065676 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 05:40:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518338FC1D for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 05:40:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3S5esKE008851; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:40:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q3S5esWA008848; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:40:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:40:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:40:54 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Jerry McAllister , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Rick Macklem , Steven Hartland , Andy Young Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 05:40:57 -0000 > > Absolutely I do NOT have any idea against PC-BSD . My wish is that it Me too. in spite that it is FreeBSD based, it's good it is separate. This means that people that want windows style computing already have something FreeBSD based. So what a problem? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 28 13:38:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD02B106564A for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 13:38:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ayoung@mosaicarchive.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6957F8FC15 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 13:38:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so2839097obc.13 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 06:38:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to :x-gm-message-state; bh=ktH659TrY+CP95Dbn7jNPTra+aBkjqt+wMqs0oO+k00=; b=BQqPYFahvaXvajJskimcHNeF+tY4QBQMaiIcxZfNVa0cDYFly3hw81mAi5Qnbi6bza aGfIas3thn3O6PSERSaPQQP2gcdLRLMQFAYDiMa2QHPv63chD1FmKV1zpfx8TV1vMKn3 2NxOavDSa5E9M6Y5rjvh3WtNr8oZmFXCD68Ki37qVNTESVznsFcmzoQb8HXVoOqULsVi +t/pLqRaMVEhgcnFdqfBMo1uG9fl416XHK1T0+ZD6SEw0oRdobzpYy8sBX9R9pVMZQgA 7dsERAeN0CnEuVEeIx/RGWiwKut4snZEzktoO6CWfCPNKZP7mZkxKaVQQkOv4wck/sDn 3bXQ== Received: by 10.182.86.165 with SMTP id q5mr19584745obz.0.1335620309933; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 06:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.22.36.11] (mobile-198-228-227-252.mycingular.net. [198.228.227.252]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h7sm8574013oeh.9.2012.04.28.06.38.28 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 28 Apr 2012 06:38:29 -0700 (PDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <75618661-63E5-4DFA-BE3F-AB8B2E06966E@mosaicarchive.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B176) From: Andrew Young Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 09:38:23 -0400 To: Vitaly Magerya X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQklMlb4BQfm9Nl9nGhxeva7fB63R0BLlDrRN4Auw94PPRCkgjEMfqTiCi7xf1ynDLq4Tzor Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 13:38:30 -0000 > Andy Young wrote: >> After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using >> FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for >> implementing large-scale storage servers. In my research I found ZFS and >> subsequently found FreeBSD. As I learned more about it, I was incredibly >> impressed. There are so many elements of FreeBSD that I love, >=20 > Can you name a few? Zfs, jails, and ip aliases are the first that come to mind. I also really li= ke the defaults concept of the config file layout.=20 >=20 >> I've >> completely ditched Linux and am deploying FreeBSD exclusively on my >> company's server infrastructure. >=20 > It would be interesting to read about your infrastructure, the reasons > why you found FreeBSD to be a better fit than what you used before, > challenges during deployment and migration, any resulting > performance/maintenance improvements, etc. >=20 > A short article or a blog post with the above maybe? >=20 Sounds like a good idea.=20 >> I can't help wonder why I hadn't heard all >> about it before. Sure, I knew the name, but I had never seen it in use, >> either in college or in over ten years as a software developer since then= . >> In contrast Linux is everywhere! Even though there are so many applicatio= ns >> where FreeBSD seems to be a better or at least more mature solution. >>=20 >> What are the current efforts to promote and educate people on FreeBSD? I'= d >> love to help spread the word. >=20 > (Adding freebsd-advocacy@ to CC). From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 28 13:43:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F124B106564A for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 13:43:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ayoung@mosaicarchive.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C25D8FC0A for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 13:43:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so2844074obc.13 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 06:43:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to :x-gm-message-state; bh=cZ1b/qLePcUFXzRcX13eIwd/lXpPeBKFYBEGwZ+/X80=; b=cS2zC2GOfHcb7gJIGcTfK7uXUlTeiHHVQbWJpwF913aYPJJNJ6qrxFiga3MNbjOwZ4 McBgEr7kbJGktfTkW/CBpGNrCL4uk/WrfPw4k+OFP/viD+r6+6o8C+Z7sfEE/E6RboHN 1BPQRy4yDEG63LzGmTsQNxHVoNvefEkVVBlaHxXCutVg0qokbiigTWS24IU7I0/LtvFz axpoVaDMN7FgVDakQQV6Ej7zgR7cMXkRcs1s6H86mP1OLKGKfXGNOWCltGoSLWfw3SIK l/pW9jBzpFqiPJYPK+j/ZsSj7C/lG3DSWMeL/uDN9pI/GFsj2Qlv2wAgBaZqEhEZD/1z 008g== Received: by 10.182.48.1 with SMTP id h1mr19221095obn.71.1335620619285; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 06:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.22.36.11] (mobile-198-228-227-252.mycingular.net. [198.228.227.252]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id il8sm10496472obc.18.2012.04.28.06.43.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 28 Apr 2012 06:43:38 -0700 (PDT) References: <4F9AEFD9.3050107@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4F9AEFD9.3050107@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B176) From: Andrew Young Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 09:43:33 -0400 To: "glarkin@FreeBSD.org" X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmO/oGev8K6IwYBeMp34X2Anft9Rq8JSq6i4bKCns5LhhbLmWv+OANI7ZjFURo36OydD+wB Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 13:43:42 -0000 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 >=20 > On 4/27/12 10:16 AM, Andy Young wrote: >> After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started >> using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a >> solution for implementing large-scale storage servers. In my >> research I found ZFS and subsequently found FreeBSD. As I learned >> more about it, I was incredibly impressed. There are so many >> elements of FreeBSD that I love, I've completely ditched Linux and >> am deploying FreeBSD exclusively on my company's server >> infrastructure. I can't help wonder why I hadn't heard all about it >> before. Sure, I knew the name, but I had never seen it in use,=20 >> either in college or in over ten years as a software developer >> since then. In contrast Linux is everywhere! Even though there are >> so many applications where FreeBSD seems to be a better or at least >> more mature solution. >>=20 >> What are the current efforts to promote and educate people on >> FreeBSD? I'd love to help spread the word. >>=20 >=20 > Hi Andrew, >=20 > Your message caught my eye because of your company name in your > signature. I thought I had seen it somewhere before, and I had - I > was at the VentureX competition at the abi when you won the grand prize! >=20 > I'm down the road in Hollis, NH, and I have been to a few of the > Wednesday meetups at the abi. I am a FreeBSD ports tree committer, > and like you, I found it a number of years ago after getting so > frustrated with the multitude of different Linux flavors. I needed an > OS that was packaged consistently, and the ports tree was a huge win > for me. >=20 > After submitting a number of PRs over the years, I was invited to > become a committer, and I have mentored other new committers since > then. If that is ever an interest to you, we should talk about it. >=20 > Anyway, I would be happy to meet with you to talk about FreeBSD in > general, as well as advocacy, if you want. I'm interested to learn > more about how you are managing your infrastructure, too. We > currently making heavy use of jails and are also in the midst of a > project implementing a Puppet-based server provisioning framework. >=20 > We could certainly give a short overview of FreeBSD in one of the > meetups at the abi, and maybe there's even call for a user group, if > there's enough interest in the area. >=20 > Cheers, > Greg >=20 Wow! Talk about a small world. I'd love to meet up. I'll send you a direct e= mail and maybe we can grab coffee or something next week.=20 > - --=20 > Greg Larkin >=20 > http://www.FreeBSD.org/ - The Power To Serve > http://www.sourcehosting.net/ - Ready. Set. Code. > http://twitter.com/cpucycle/ - Follow you, follow me > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ >=20 > iEYEARECAAYFAk+a79kACgkQ0sRouByUApCR+gCePd4rfkcdyq0OuOecxOAbRz6Q > 5e4An15lkn9QRL6T9LvDgCMgYt4TATjp > =3DB/1h > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 28 14:08:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 241EA1065672 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:08:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ayoung@mosaicarchive.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D43708FC14 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:08:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so2867537obc.13 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:08:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to :x-gm-message-state; bh=VT0UtFsUqyJjlpYSCwd+c3Gd4/g1QGZvEHkRnJu0wjM=; b=SgX/ECPsPEktYVAfpvoHEYDf70S/D4vSp3NXg9a9BQydWomcNCn+ec0TMzzj/uyJR7 iMr4cjVF45KthG/9oWCH7iqSzZR2Uhym8I/jDVSt8KeFvO4oMf2RKGoGvJRvvHyA4yqn Qyio9y/EH7cKVyZAI8YwXMUvAw7/ifxTjhZw4TM6HaWo3BXImKt/pJ8utgcU38t+8lxP pnehLQMbM3vCbVibApSwD+vJbS/51U90SLUMQ6ZOH70iPzPyvPOBz0elKvQ9GhnwDzbj 43tMteAfHJFbcitULyYlIs/b3tEe8eNeDNwtPHlGoriuUQFAXEQTvtsE52gJXJ2AmyIA iPow== Received: by 10.60.27.38 with SMTP id q6mr9014448oeg.20.1335622115293; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.22.36.11] (mobile-198-228-227-252.mycingular.net. [198.228.227.252]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id st5sm10571052obb.0.2012.04.28.07.08.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:08:34 -0700 (PDT) References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B176) From: Andrew Young Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 10:08:27 -0400 To: Jerry McAllister X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk2+aGBz2OJlGXHA1RJSQgl8c/byN11nvrAgaezlYlF7wv7tC4dJ4VJEmUHn0qA1fQ/X+H3 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:08:36 -0000 > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >=20 >>> After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using >>> FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for >>=20 >> Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need=20= >> to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. >>=20 >> Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded=20= >> and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. >=20 > Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. > Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but > there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are > not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know > that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in > the field and do not know better than that. =20 >=20 > Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then > download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to > be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. > They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too > lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some > more information and encouragement I would guess. >=20 > ////jerry =20 >=20 Information, encouragement and just more awareness would have helped me out a= lot. I can't help but think that getting students involved earlier on would= pave the way for more awareness and adoption later on.=20 Andy >=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 28 14:35:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89729106564A; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:35:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from luigi@onelab2.iet.unipi.it) Received: from onelab2.iet.unipi.it (onelab2.iet.unipi.it [131.114.59.238]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C26F8FC08; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:35:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by onelab2.iet.unipi.it (Postfix, from userid 275) id A94987300A; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 16:47:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 16:47:45 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo To: chromium@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120428144745.GA40844@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: how to display C sources in Chromium (file:/// only) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:35:33 -0000 (hoping this is of interest for hackers- too) One of the most annoying features of chromium is that it downloads instead of displaying various types of files (.c, .h and so on). After a bit of investigation i found that at least for local files you can override this by defining your preferred mime types in ~/.local/share/mime/globs2 as follows: > cat ~/.local/share/mime/globs2 10:text/plain:*.c 10:text/plain:*.cc 10:text/plain:*.c++ 10:text/plain:*.cpp 10:text/plain:*.h The first field is the priority (smaller number means more important), then follows the mime type, then the pattern that you are matching. The default rules (/usr/local/share/ ...) have a priority of 50 for .c, .h and so on. For remotely-served files, the browser relies on the MIME Type supplied by the server and the trick above does not work. Looking at the Chromium sources chromium-courgette-redacted-18.0.1025.162/net/base/mime_util.cc it seems that a partial fix can be achieved by arring the list of types we want to display to the array static const char* const supported_non_image_types[] = { ... + "text/x-csrc", + "text/x-chdr", ... } Maybe we can have some optional patch to the FreeBSD port, although i'd rather find a way to override the server-supplied mime type in a way that does not require rebuilding Chrome. Anyways, at least for local browsing, this seems a significant improvement. cheers luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 28 14:42:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E882E106579D for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:42:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matheus@eternamente.info) Received: from phoenix.eternamente.info (phoenix.eternamente.info [109.169.62.232]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B91D08FC12 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:42:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by phoenix.eternamente.info (Postfix, from userid 80) id 0BCED1CC71; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:42:42 -0300 (BRT) Received: from 187.115.177.193 (SquirrelMail authenticated user matheus) by eternamente.info with HTTP; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:42:42 -0300 Message-ID: <9300ce35bed957e1337107d2e5e1f70e.squirrel@eternamente.info> In-Reply-To: References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:42:42 -0300 From: "Nenhum_de_Nos" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:42:57 -0000 On Fri, April 27, 2012 18:30, Freddie Cash wrote: > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > wrote: >> My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its >> installation structure : >> >> It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it >> is . >> >> In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT >> root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters >> which it is approximately ZERO . >> >> Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT >> use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting >> MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . >> >> This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really >> very tiring for experienced users . > > And that's a good thing. :) It forces people to learn. And it > allows people to create the system *they* need, instead of being > forced to use the system "the project" thinks everyone needs. > > We spend a good 2-3 hours customising Ubuntu Server and Debian Linux > installs to make them work they way *we* want them to, with the > software *we* want, and the configurations *we* need. Most of that > time is spent undoing all the "helpful" abstractions that > Ubuntu/Debian devs think make life simpler (and they do, *IF* you use > a GUI to manage things, but CLI users are left in the cold). Just > look at the horrible mess that is GRUB2 configuration on > Ubuntu/Debina, with shell script snippets spread through 4 different > directories. Great for GUI tools to parse and update, but a royal > pain for CLI users. that could not be more true. Ubuntu won't even ask if you want GRUB, it installs it and will replace your bootloader regardless. I hate that. this is one reason to just use ubuntu where it is alone, and won't harm no OS. FreeBSD asks, and will respect my will to choose. matheus -- We will call you Cygnus, The God of balance you shall be A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 28 20:36:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFAEE106564A for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 20:36:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (unknown [IPv6:2607:f678:1010::34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86B8C8FC15 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 20:36:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (66@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id q3SKavsT082981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 28 Apr 2012 13:36:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.14.2/Submit) with UUCP id q3SKav1v082980; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 13:36:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from fbsd81 ([192.168.200.81]) by pluto.rain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-pluto-M2060407) id AA05964; Sat, 28 Apr 12 13:25:12 PDT Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 20:24:58 -0700 From: perryh@pluto.rain.com To: m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com Message-Id: <4f9cb48a.x8vU/6qLZViLZ+G5%perryh@pluto.rain.com> References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> <20120427170634.52a1675a@virus.local> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: nail 11.25 7/29/05 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: c.hutchinson0@yahoo.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 20:36:57 -0000 Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:06 PM, wrote: > > I'm wondering if spinning up a "live DVD" desktop version, using > > GENERIC, and/or Gnome/KDE might be a good option to take FreeBSD > > for a test drive ... > > There is such a very nice distribution : > > http://ghostbsd.org/ Also, freesbie.org