From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 00:59:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9D5A106564A for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 00:59:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eric@shadowsun.net) Received: from mail.atlantawebhost.com (dns1.atlantawebhost.com [66.223.40.39]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4338A8FC08 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 00:59:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 21245 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2012 20:52:49 -0400 Received: from c-71-234-176-233.hsd1.ct.comcast.net (HELO ?172.16.1.205?) (71.234.176.233) by mail.atlantawebhost.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 2012 20:52:49 -0400 Message-ID: <4FDD2A60.6080700@shadowsun.net> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:52:48 -0400 From: Eric McCorkle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120612 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FDBBACF.9040809@shadowsun.net> <4FDC59F5.9010801@yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: <4FDC59F5.9010801@yandex.ru> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: EFI development tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 00:59:36 -0000 On 06/16/12 06:03, Andrey V. Elsukov wrote: > Hi, Eric. > > Did you try the GNU EFI toolchain? It contains a good descriptions > on how to build EFI application and we probably can use some > suggestions even without importing it. > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnu-efi/ > I did. It looks like what's in the base system now was adapted from that. Now that I can build OVMF, I have substantially more ability to figure out what's going wrong with the programs I build using that method. I can also compare the files and assembly coming out of EDK builds to what comes out of the GNU toolchain. I'd be willing to bet it's some sort of subtle ABI issue. There are a couple of very subtle differences between the PE (microsoft) and ELF ABIs. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 02:14:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F2FB106566B for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 02:14:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2BD98FC0C for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 02:14:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so3704439yen.13 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:14:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Ds5x7eXg+jdobmA6M2MUbDlSlryf9AD3LIEQKJinieU=; b=crSReaYLiCm8jP+/U9Qc6nO8OpyUsVF7FZSEQaiBy+gy5r5UqU393YDJp51fcKaTLD kt+64c8KkpkUQyF8vGd4GsNzzxsSqb11pmTnSHHVrbtAbQrjf7mP7uZD5+LRytaefGEu hdqy4QMIH0jRkt1HzbHvbTQT7QpeTexM14bpMG9OIL2KckEntdZR1l1dYzAFekLrxdMj IKOq+CTskQ8pnKUe3t1uv15Rw9U0s+IibO5BedLGa5VP2rNplH5z9Pu2ltvtul2hz8w6 HJHfUtMRz7lrHdh6fW7B/AXIye+ELqP8ic3aDqFr+8eiddoCW0shxmgaOfG1Xri4qiUC MGTg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.148.196 with SMTP id s4mr2397207icv.19.1339899269082; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.44.11 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 22:14:29 -0400 Message-ID: From: Aryeh Friedman To: FreeBSD Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 02:14:30 -0000 I just moved into a very cramped apartment and we only have room for one monitor so it is the computer then I heard it is possible to make it so you can watch TV on your computer.... I know about some this for windows but I am dedicated FreeBSD person... how do I go about doing all the research I need to make sure that the following is true: 1. FreeBSD supports all hardware (and the needed functionality) to watch full screen tv on my computer (extra points of a remote can be used)... NOTE: This hardware must be currently fairly mass market 2. What ports to install (right now my desktop is x11-wm/xfce4) make this happen 3. Any tips on making it optimal From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 06:01:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 051A4106564A for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 06:01:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zim.MIT.EDU (ZIM.MIT.EDU [18.95.3.101]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C978FC17 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 06:01:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zim.MIT.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zim.MIT.EDU (8.14.5/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5H61ZaO008059; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 02:01:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by zim.MIT.EDU (8.14.5/8.14.2/Submit) id q5H61ZTL008058; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 02:01:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 02:01:35 -0400 From: David Schultz To: Aldis Berjoza Message-ID: <20120617060135.GA7986@zim.MIT.EDU> Mail-Followup-To: Aldis Berjoza , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20120530204502.5cab974c@desktop.pc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120530204502.5cab974c@desktop.pc> Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TeXLive merge into FreeBSD ports tree - FreeBSD project idea X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 06:01:47 -0000 On Wed, May 30, 2012, Aldis Berjoza wrote: > On Sat, 26 May 2012 22:45:37 +1200 > Sam Lin wrote: > > > Hi FreeBSD fellows, > > > > Those who are using LaTeX on FreeBSD must know that tetex has been > > discontinued years ago and that TeXLive is now recommended, however > > TeXLive has never been merged in the ports tree on FreeBSD and that > > tetex is still used on FreeBSD ports. Although there have been some > > "customized" work so that FreeBSD users can install and use TeXLive > > on FreeBSD machine (for example, > > http://code.google.com/p/freebsd-texlive/wiki/Installing), this is > > quite confusing and may still cause conflict on the system side when > > using or maintaining it. > > > > There has also been years of gossips that a Japanese developer Hiroki > > Sato (hrs@freebsd) has been working on this matter for the last years > > and therefore the FreeBSD admin panel don't want anyone else to work > > on this and merge it into the ports tree. > > > > I actually contacted Hiroki Sato in the beginning of last year (2011) > > regarding this, and in his reply he said that there had been several > > technical issues but most of them had been solved and almost ready to > > merge into the port tree, and that he was planning to go forward > > after the 8.2/7.4 releases (one or two weeks later from that time > > stage) are out. However, more than a year has passed since then and > > still nothing happened. I tried to contact him several times after > > that (email, tweet, etc) but haven't heard anything back from him at > > all. > > > > Is TeXLive really going to be merged into the FreeBSD ports tree as > > Hiroki Sato mentioned previously? Or is this just a myth?? > > > > I am now thinking that this should be put into the "FreeBSD Project > > ideas List" [http://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage]. > > > > Regards, > > Sam > > > > Hey, Sam! > > I which TeXLive would be merged in FreeBSD ports. Romain is doing great > job maintaining it. And it work, And it work now. In fact it works for > more than a year. I have used his TeXLive ports through portshaker for a while. They work pretty well, but there are some issues due to the fact that the TeXLive folks have some strange ideas. For one, TeXLive is split into over 2000 packages, many of which are tiny; the FreeBSD package system doesn't handle that very well. For another, TeXLive now has its own (dubious) package manager, tlmgr, which doesn't play well with other package management systems. I'm not a ports committer, but perhaps a good first step to getting TeXLive working better in FreeBSD is to introduce a TeTeX vs TeXLive knob in the ports tree so that people don't wind up accidentally clobber their TeXLive install when TeTex gets pulled in as a dependency. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 12:07:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 628C41065672; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 12:07:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from me@janh.de) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B15F8FC1C; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 12:07:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nb981.math (31-18-144-171-dynip.superkabel.de [31.18.144.171]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrbap3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MCZ7q-1Spbqk0gZ0-009PPb; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:02:08 +0200 Message-ID: <4FDDC73A.3090203@janh.de> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:02:02 +0200 From: Jan Henrik Sylvester User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120609 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Schultz References: <20120530204502.5cab974c@desktop.pc> <20120617060135.GA7986@zim.MIT.EDU> In-Reply-To: <20120617060135.GA7986@zim.MIT.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:4q9vCKTlp6PcP+r9rTC6A0fufTv3N7U7CZsk6OhOdJE EUn2D8IYFm1Ypjq54ZSlFY/+YRpwrB7LwmXPTg7SaLol9/iLgU 5D8SEZW8v36o0SxrWJkYURC3TOOIfgJK4dSsYDOsC/u1vN0Hj+ VU1KU1e9YT8PjpxM2CyzwxhtBs/IhbdK7su/X5G9hCftEkggv+ 4ESWqnqA04hXEM3KQ25LSXzbwkqUveZYlX6TFLMHrbsCBdxgGM idy1nMs6WUxLGlu6rgIRGY7FrEli0fiexxapC3BUtAdBhRYd+f yNAg1M6kuTrybLoxFRb2IOPfD/i7UCuGsgG3o/zT/BkNo3cmg= = X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 13:01:22 +0000 Cc: hackers-list freebsd Subject: Re: TeXLive merge into FreeBSD ports tree - FreeBSD project idea X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 12:07:29 -0000 On 06/17/2012 08:01, David Schultz wrote: > On Wed, May 30, 2012, Aldis Berjoza wrote: >> I which TeXLive would be merged in FreeBSD ports. Romain is doing great >> job maintaining it. And it work, And it work now. In fact it works for >> more than a year. > > I have used his TeXLive ports through portshaker for a while. > They work pretty well, but there are some issues due to the fact > that the TeXLive folks have some strange ideas. For one, TeXLive > is split into over 2000 packages, many of which are tiny; the > FreeBSD package system doesn't handle that very well. For another, > TeXLive now has its own (dubious) package manager, tlmgr, which > doesn't play well with other package management systems. > > I'm not a ports committer, but perhaps a good first step to > getting TeXLive working better in FreeBSD is to introduce a > TeTeX vs TeXLive knob in the ports tree so that people don't > wind up accidentally clobber their TeXLive install when TeTex > gets pulled in as a dependency. I have been using Romain's TeXLive for almost a year, too. It is great, Romain does a good job and is very helpful, but it is definitely not ready for ports, yet. On machines not older than two years, the 500 to 600 ports that texlive-scheme-tetex is bearable, although it considerably slows down testing if all ports are up to date etc. Though it would like to have texlive-scheme-full, I have stopped using it for that reason. On older machines, even texlive-scheme-tetex adds a lot to port upgrading operations. The last time I checked, there still have been many broken links installed into bin. It is pretty easy to fix after installing the ports, but of course it should be done in the port, which at least does not seem to be trivial. Some other ports do not build because of this, for example with epstopdf missing. Quite a few conflicts and changes in dependencies are needed for TeXLive. TeXLive does not just replace teTeX, but also ports like freetype-tools, t1utils, jadetex, etc. I have patches for all ports I use, which has been working for me for half a year. If TeXLive and teTeX were supposed to exist in ports in parallel for some time, something like bsd.tex.mk would be needed with a generic way to specify tex related dependencies. Maybe this would be useful for the transition period, since we probably would not want texlive-scheme-tetex to replace all teTeX dependencies, but many people disagree that having both TeX at the same time in ports would be a good idea. There are ports that I could not get to build with TeXLive at all: misc/freebsd-doc-* There are too many error messages I do not understand. Someone with a lot more insight will have to look at these, before TeXLive can replace teTeX in ports. I have posted to texlive-freebsd@googlegroups.com about this, but there were no answers. I guess the biggest problem for people to put more effort into fixing TeXLive in FreeBSD ports is the huge disagreement about how a final solution should look like. OT: FreeBSD might be more behind than others, but others have trouble with TeXLive in their native packaging system, too: Nothing never than TeXLive 2009 made it into Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. Cheers, Jan Henrik From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 13:38:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A54D106566C for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 13:38:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising@daemonic.se) Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se (mail.lysator.liu.se [IPv6:2001:6b0:17:f0a0::3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B818FC08 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 13:38:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF7FF40027 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:38:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix, from userid 1004) id D530040026; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:38:49 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on bernadotte.lysator.liu.se X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=disabled version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 Received: from mx.daemonic.se (h-45-105.a163.priv.bahnhof.se [94.254.45.105]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 796EA40025; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:38:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mailscanner.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:0:1::6]) by mx.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3WFc3F1F3zz8ggx; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:38:49 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daemonic.se Received: from mx.daemonic.se ([IPv6:2001:470:dca9:0:1::3]) (using TLS with cipher CAMELLIA256-SHA) by mailscanner.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [2001:470:dca9:0:1::6]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTPS id SY9yf9-YVPuC; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:38:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.daemonic.se (mail.daemonic.se [10.1.0.4]) by mx.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3WFc3C0pJpz8ggv; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:38:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from tifa.daemonic.se (78-69-168-131-no84.tbcn.telia.com [78.69.168.131]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3WFc3C06qJz9Ctq; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:38:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from tifa.daemonic.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tifa.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CF8D22AC3; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:38:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4FDDDDE6.2000104@daemonic.se> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:38:46 +0200 From: Niclas Zeising User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aryeh Friedman References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:00:51 +0000 Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 13:38:51 -0000 On 06/17/12 04:14, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > I just moved into a very cramped apartment and we only have room for > one monitor so it is the computer then I heard it is possible to make > it so you can watch TV on your computer.... I know about some this for > windows but I am dedicated FreeBSD person... how do I go about doing > all the research I need to make sure that the following is true: > > 1. FreeBSD supports all hardware (and the needed functionality) to > watch full screen tv on my computer (extra points of a remote can be > used)... NOTE: This hardware must be currently fairly mass market > 2. What ports to install (right now my desktop is x11-wm/xfce4) make this happen > 3. Any tips on making it optimal This is perhaps not the solution you are looking for, but many modern TV screens has a VGA and a DVI input connector, as well as many fairly modern computers has HDMI output. DVI is also compatible with HDMI, at least to an extent. Perhaps you can find a monitor and use it as a dual-purpose monitor instead? Regards! -- Niclas Zeising From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 14:58:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C7A9106564A for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:58:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from outbackdingo@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCDBB8FC16 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:58:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so4233048bkv.13 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:58:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=jP+dynIszrZV/+bTKiReHrExdFrfrB70fChM2obhB3M=; b=U+8cIYrnZYFR+0qPk8TuyLdlH2a7Zz6FcFXVnx899zkSbovtwSvS2WEJeXmPAK22Qb FU1AMHwH5GACcGEx1EnHD7w7MKfVLDFB+yMIpF88dZYC8ItaTqodjOF1Ht21U9Y29wvG MZzYiSJDiytizkso8i686vyR0gf350+TJcMIu+IPuci8I31R/zlwSPjUi3EJLLOhBnMB J+WizoNKya8g51eDRkwPPAMyxXJt5M0hBDw5gWcPdlRWL6Fg6m2DoFp54QBZQuZb8Vq3 ve3otGwqP1ieapqGpqky18FFD50cS4Z2xQe1yTaZtzlcthiJbXbeEeTYZXfgM9mEadrr YhMw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.155.154 with SMTP id s26mr5037538bkw.129.1339945129658; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.33.193 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:58:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FDDDDE6.2000104@daemonic.se> References: <4FDDDDE6.2000104@daemonic.se> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 10:58:49 -0400 Message-ID: From: Outback Dingo To: Niclas Zeising Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List , Aryeh Friedman Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:58:51 -0000 On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Niclas Zeising wrote: > On 06/17/12 04:14, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >> >> I just moved into a very cramped apartment and we only have room for >> one monitor so it is the computer then I heard it is possible to make >> it so you can watch TV on your computer.... I know about some this for >> windows but I am dedicated FreeBSD person... how do I go about doing >> all the research I need to make sure that the following is true: >> >> 1. FreeBSD supports all hardware (and the needed functionality) to >> watch full screen tv on my computer (extra points of a remote can be >> used)... NOTE: This hardware must be currently fairly mass market >> 2. What ports to install (right now my desktop is x11-wm/xfce4) make this >> happen >> 3. Any tips on making it optimal > > > This is perhaps not the solution you are looking for, but many modern TV > screens has a VGA and a DVI input connector, as well as many fairly modern > computers has HDMI output. DVI is also compatible with HDMI, at least to an > extent. Perhaps you can find a monitor and use it as a dual-purpose monitor > instead? > Regards! > -- > Niclas Zeising I think hes maybe looking for a tv tuner card to plug into his computer so he can watch TV on the PC also... Haupauge makes a few and are compatible with FreeBSD. See Setting Up TV Cards and a good list is freebsd-multimedia http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/tvcard.html > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 16:32:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4E38106566C for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 16:32:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zim.MIT.EDU (ZIM.MIT.EDU [18.95.3.101]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6548F8FC08 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 16:32:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zim.MIT.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zim.MIT.EDU (8.14.5/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5HGWI32010818; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 12:32:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by zim.MIT.EDU (8.14.5/8.14.2/Submit) id q5HGWIf1010817; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 12:32:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 12:32:18 -0400 From: David Schultz To: Jan Henrik Sylvester Message-ID: <20120617163218.GA10776@zim.MIT.EDU> Mail-Followup-To: Jan Henrik Sylvester , Aldis Berjoza , hackers-list freebsd References: <20120530204502.5cab974c@desktop.pc> <20120617060135.GA7986@zim.MIT.EDU> <4FDDC73A.3090203@janh.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FDDC73A.3090203@janh.de> Cc: hackers-list freebsd Subject: Re: TeXLive merge into FreeBSD ports tree - FreeBSD project idea X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 16:32:19 -0000 On Sun, Jun 17, 2012, Jan Henrik Sylvester wrote: > Quite a few conflicts and changes in dependencies are needed for > TeXLive. TeXLive does not just replace teTeX, but also ports like > freetype-tools, t1utils, jadetex, etc. I have patches for all ports I > use, which has been working for me for half a year. If TeXLive and teTeX > were supposed to exist in ports in parallel for some time, something > like bsd.tex.mk would be needed with a generic way to specify tex > related dependencies. Maybe this would be useful for the transition > period, since we probably would not want texlive-scheme-tetex to replace > all teTeX dependencies, but many people disagree that having both TeX at > the same time in ports would be a good idea. Right, so like I said, having the knob in the tree would be a useful first step, even if TeXLive isn't ready for inclusion. (I'd be surprised if there's a good reason to have multiple versions of things like t1utils, but that's a separate issue.) > I guess the biggest problem for people to put more effort into fixing > TeXLive in FreeBSD ports is the huge disagreement about how a final > solution should look like. > > OT: FreeBSD might be more behind than others, but others have trouble > with TeXLive in their native packaging system, too: Nothing never than > TeXLive 2009 made it into Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. Yep, it's a giant mess. IIRC Ubuntu ships the most popular TeXLive schemas as separate packages. Doing anything more fine-grained than that seems unmanageable, especially since dependencies among TeXLive packages aren't tracked properly. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 17:19:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C65C4106566B for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:19:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86FD28FC0A for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:19:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so9152726obc.13 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 10:19:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5vL0/HvnzJ2uYQf4/22YExckDeIpyO3Y/RsxxXs1HgI=; b=by2+Cot8AlNoS1UyUgNNvvKtYBR3HcD4Ht31UlLohaBvK8+eMhI+d6VJj9Jya1Zan5 M0y50LXtDBpKihWoWIjm92mo8qogxdwT+Ti1uvcHe9WDSsag2lJXe/EZHXkkRqgwvHEP 8Jp4LYV/UPXUnvRNFFbKDqiVoGX1XDy5iduHhg3KaJWuuy5de0YM9JETjUDk6qDVwpuj EJ7KSU6+az/+TAQddeEs4bPr4fKe6nC8iglFO2G4Ox1yru0NGAIMDg9JYNAQQYNSHfRT p18R0EOpWMuSZZtoOMo4VwPWaoM3ugAhpyYK9GdMPk1e/ePVzZSNGK8ol5OpQRfqm0ek KwAQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.30.101 with SMTP id r5mr12857385oeh.68.1339953578829; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 10:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.85.4 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 10:19:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201206171702.q5HH2qJY039490@triton8.kn-bremen.de> References: <4FDDDDE6.2000104@daemonic.se> <201206171702.q5HH2qJY039490@triton8.kn-bremen.de> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 13:19:38 -0400 Message-ID: From: Aryeh Friedman To: Juergen Lock Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Niclas Zeising , outbackdingo@gmail.com, FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:19:40 -0000 Just a small notes on requirements we *DO NOT* have cable or any other non-broadcast service (we are using a broadcast signal only [current US {NYC} standards]) On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Juergen Lock wrot= e: > In article you write: >>On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Niclas Zeising wro= te: >>> On 06/17/12 04:14, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >>>> >>>> I just moved into a very cramped apartment and we only have room for >>>> one monitor so it is the computer then I heard it is possible to make >>>> it so you can watch TV on your computer.... I know about some this for >>>> windows but I am dedicated FreeBSD person... how do I go about doing >>>> all the research I need to make sure that the following is true: >>>> >>>> 1. FreeBSD supports all hardware (and the needed functionality) to >>>> watch full screen tv on my computer (extra points of a remote can be >>>> used)... NOTE: This hardware must be currently fairly mass market >>>> 2. What ports to install (right now my desktop is x11-wm/xfce4) make t= his >>>> happen >>>> 3. Any tips on making it optimal >>> >>> >>> This is perhaps not the solution you are looking for, but many modern T= V >>> screens has a VGA and a DVI input connector, as well as many fairly mod= ern >>> computers has HDMI output. DVI is also compatible with HDMI, at least t= o an >>> extent. Perhaps you can find a monitor and use it as a dual-purpose mon= itor >>> instead? >>> Regards! >>> -- >>> Niclas Zeising >> >>I think hes maybe looking for a tv tuner card to plug into his >>computer so he can watch TV on the PC also... >>Haupauge makes a few and are compatible with FreeBSD. See =A0Setting Up T= V Cards >>and a good list is freebsd-multimedia >>http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/tvcard.html > > That handbook chapter only mentions analog bktr(4) tuner cards so > it's a bit outdated. =A0Nowadays you can also use cx88-based analog > and dvb-t/atsc(?) pci(e) tuner cards driven by the multimedia/cx88 > port, as well as a greater variety of usb tuners supported by > multimedia/webcamd which runs the Linux v4l/dvb driver code in > FreeBSD userland. =A0See > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://wiki.freebsd.org/WebcamCompat > > for some tuners people have reported as working. =A0Another usb > atsc tuner that has good chances of working is this one: > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-HVR-= 950Q > > (at least it seems pretty popular on Linux.) > > =A0And about tv apps that you can control using a remote (usually via > comms/lirc), the most popular ones are multimedia/mythtv and > multimedia/vdr, see these pages: > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://wiki.freebsd.org/HTPC > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://wiki.freebsd.org/MythTV > > and > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://wiki.freebsd.org/VDR > > as well as multimedia/xbmc-pvr that you can use with vdr as backend > as also described in the above vdr wiki page. > > =A0HTH, :) > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Juergen From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 17:05:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1C101065670 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:05:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nox@jelal.kn-bremen.de) Received: from smtp.kn-bremen.de (gelbbaer.kn-bremen.de [78.46.108.116]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA0618FC14 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:05:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kn-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id 037771E000EB; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 19:05:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from triton8.kn-bremen.de (noident@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5HH2qEY039491; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 19:02:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from nox@triton8.kn-bremen.de) Received: (from nox@localhost) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.3/Submit) id q5HH2qJY039490; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 19:02:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from nox) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 19:02:52 +0200 (CEST) From: Juergen Lock Message-Id: <201206171702.q5HH2qJY039490@triton8.kn-bremen.de> To: outbackdingo@gmail.com X-Newsgroups: local.list.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: References: <4FDDDDE6.2000104@daemonic.se> Organization: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 19:13:59 +0000 Cc: Niclas Zeising , FreeBSD Mailing List , Aryeh Friedman Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:05:54 -0000 In article you write: >On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Niclas Zeising wrote: >> On 06/17/12 04:14, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >>> >>> I just moved into a very cramped apartment and we only have room for >>> one monitor so it is the computer then I heard it is possible to make >>> it so you can watch TV on your computer.... I know about some this for >>> windows but I am dedicated FreeBSD person... how do I go about doing >>> all the research I need to make sure that the following is true: >>> >>> 1. FreeBSD supports all hardware (and the needed functionality) to >>> watch full screen tv on my computer (extra points of a remote can be >>> used)... NOTE: This hardware must be currently fairly mass market >>> 2. What ports to install (right now my desktop is x11-wm/xfce4) make this >>> happen >>> 3. Any tips on making it optimal >> >> >> This is perhaps not the solution you are looking for, but many modern TV >> screens has a VGA and a DVI input connector, as well as many fairly modern >> computers has HDMI output. DVI is also compatible with HDMI, at least to an >> extent. Perhaps you can find a monitor and use it as a dual-purpose monitor >> instead? >> Regards! >> -- >> Niclas Zeising > >I think hes maybe looking for a tv tuner card to plug into his >computer so he can watch TV on the PC also... >Haupauge makes a few and are compatible with FreeBSD. See Setting Up TV Cards >and a good list is freebsd-multimedia >http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/tvcard.html That handbook chapter only mentions analog bktr(4) tuner cards so it's a bit outdated. Nowadays you can also use cx88-based analog and dvb-t/atsc(?) pci(e) tuner cards driven by the multimedia/cx88 port, as well as a greater variety of usb tuners supported by multimedia/webcamd which runs the Linux v4l/dvb driver code in FreeBSD userland. See http://wiki.freebsd.org/WebcamCompat for some tuners people have reported as working. Another usb atsc tuner that has good chances of working is this one: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-HVR-950Q (at least it seems pretty popular on Linux.) And about tv apps that you can control using a remote (usually via comms/lirc), the most popular ones are multimedia/mythtv and multimedia/vdr, see these pages: http://wiki.freebsd.org/HTPC http://wiki.freebsd.org/MythTV and http://wiki.freebsd.org/VDR as well as multimedia/xbmc-pvr that you can use with vdr as backend as also described in the above vdr wiki page. HTH, :) Juergen From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 19:24:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71318106564A; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 19:24:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from me@janh.de) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.186]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D75598FC18; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 19:24:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nb981.math (31-18-144-171-dynip.superkabel.de [31.18.144.171]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreu2) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Lx3gz-1RsCKl0Nhp-016Sey; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:24:30 +0200 Message-ID: <4FDE2EE9.5020602@janh.de> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:24:25 +0200 From: Jan Henrik Sylvester User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120609 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Schultz References: <20120530204502.5cab974c@desktop.pc> <20120617060135.GA7986@zim.MIT.EDU> <4FDDC73A.3090203@janh.de> <20120617163218.GA10776@zim.MIT.EDU> In-Reply-To: <20120617163218.GA10776@zim.MIT.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:Vn3VUVJ4w+12W+zklonJirXJjOFkpWOxskGsr6UC2FC UPaW/pq0IDeWU5mCV0UeSm/86deNfFW3W+q0HuXhPl3/Jrwoti TZFcDVcY4Z/MsKXV2Rry79xIFG77RwuuqrZte2wbrQd19DsBh/ YiMDHyGvFGtduR1RgG+c+3VWDYRkj9dkGH2rhRMNho+t02r5vR Y+yElCecDNWkJTZl0HEakk8mQl1vhslVZWOAC3lXNZzXuVP7ft Q19cE60/GX1gL+s0GWu7/2JFVg+y/TlsYYvO83MvfUeM/C3e8S S6ZL5dzivQHwtzXmWZOnpNA3HOeLQ7O4i2HiNzKd+/Xn/rFfg= = X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 19:49:12 +0000 Cc: hackers-list freebsd Subject: Re: TeXLive merge into FreeBSD ports tree - FreeBSD project idea X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 19:24:38 -0000 On 06/17/2012 18:32, David Schultz wrote: > On Sun, Jun 17, 2012, Jan Henrik Sylvester wrote: >> Quite a few conflicts and changes in dependencies are needed for >> TeXLive. TeXLive does not just replace teTeX, but also ports like >> freetype-tools, t1utils, jadetex, etc. I have patches for all ports I >> use, which has been working for me for half a year. If TeXLive and teTeX >> were supposed to exist in ports in parallel for some time, something >> like bsd.tex.mk would be needed with a generic way to specify tex >> related dependencies. Maybe this would be useful for the transition >> period, since we probably would not want texlive-scheme-tetex to replace >> all teTeX dependencies, but many people disagree that having both TeX at >> the same time in ports would be a good idea. > > Right, so like I said, having the knob in the tree would be a > useful first step, even if TeXLive isn't ready for inclusion. > (I'd be surprised if there's a good reason to have multiple > versions of things like t1utils, but that's a separate issue.) I do not understand what you precisely mean with a knob as a useful first step. If we do not create a generic way to specify tex related dependencies (USE_TEX=core t1utils tocloft), we need to decide that TeXLive will eventually go into the tree the way Romain created the ports to be able to depend on print/texlive-core, print/texlive-tocloft, etc. Or what other way to introduce dependencies are you thinking about? It is not possible to simply use print/texlive-core instead of print/teTeX, not even print/texlive-scheme-tetex is enough as teTeX includes more than that scheme currently gives. At the same time, print/texlive-core replaces more than just print/teTeX: I have a list of about 10 ports I had previously installed, which conflict with TeXLive but have their functionality provided mostly by print/texlive-core as far as I need it (except for building misc/freebsd-doc-*, which I cannot fix). For the ports I use, I have patches that introduce dependencies like this one in devel/doxygen: .if exists(${LOCALBASE}/share/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgr.pl) BUILD_DEPENDS+= texlive-scheme-tetex>=0:${PORTSDIR}/print/texlive-scheme-tetex \ ${LOCALBASE}/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/tocloft/tocloft.sty:${PORTSDIR}/print/texlive-tocloft .else BUILD_DEPENDS+= dvips:${PORTSDIR}/print/dvipsk-tetex \ latex:${PORTSDIR}/print/teTeX .endif Even with a knob instead of checking if print/texlive-core is installed, it would put a lot of mess into the ports tree. Some maintainers will not agree to introduce these conditions, if there is no general agreement that we want to transition to TeXLive that way. As far as I remember, both romain@ and hrs@ have stated that they do not want both teTeX and TeXLive in the tree concurrently. Cheers, Jan Henrik From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 20:04:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A282F106564A for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:04:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zim.MIT.EDU (ZIM.MIT.EDU [18.95.3.101]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 633D58FC0A for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:04:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zim.MIT.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zim.MIT.EDU (8.14.5/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5HK4Fbb011682; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 16:04:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by zim.MIT.EDU (8.14.5/8.14.2/Submit) id q5HK4FRi011681; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 16:04:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 16:04:15 -0400 From: David Schultz To: Jan Henrik Sylvester Message-ID: <20120617200415.GA11652@zim.MIT.EDU> Mail-Followup-To: Jan Henrik Sylvester , Aldis Berjoza , hackers-list freebsd References: <20120530204502.5cab974c@desktop.pc> <20120617060135.GA7986@zim.MIT.EDU> <4FDDC73A.3090203@janh.de> <20120617163218.GA10776@zim.MIT.EDU> <4FDE2EE9.5020602@janh.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FDE2EE9.5020602@janh.de> Cc: hackers-list freebsd Subject: Re: TeXLive merge into FreeBSD ports tree - FreeBSD project idea X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:04:17 -0000 On Sun, Jun 17, 2012, Jan Henrik Sylvester wrote: > Even with a knob instead of checking if print/texlive-core is installed, > it would put a lot of mess into the ports tree. Some maintainers will > not agree to introduce these conditions, if there is no general > agreement that we want to transition to TeXLive that way. > > As far as I remember, both romain@ and hrs@ have stated that they do not > want both teTeX and TeXLive in the tree concurrently. In that case, it sounds like using TeXLive in FreeBSD will be a bit tricky until someone steps in and does all the work required for integration. Unfortunately I'm a bit time-constrained for the next few months, but I do use TeXLive and would be happy to test any proposed patches. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 20:09:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC66C106566B; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:09:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gperez@entel.upc.edu) Received: from dash.upc.es (dash.upc.es [147.83.2.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CFDE8FC14; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:09:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ackerman2.upc.es (ackerman2.upc.es [147.83.2.244]) by dash.upc.es (8.14.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5HIlnwV025083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:47:49 +0200 Received: from [10.161.70.4] (75.Red-176-83-108.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net [176.83.108.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by ackerman2.upc.es (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5HIljDY025438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:47:48 +0200 References: <20120530204502.5cab974c@desktop.pc> <20120617060135.GA7986@zim.MIT.EDU> <4FDDC73A.3090203@janh.de> In-Reply-To: <4FDDC73A.3090203@janh.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Message-Id: <0E7B7EE4-CA8A-4836-B839-564EAD2966EE@entel.upc.edu> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B206) From: Gustau Perez Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:47:41 +0200 To: Jan Henrik Sylvester X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.70 on 147.83.2.244 X-Mail-Scanned: Criba 2.0 + Clamd X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (dash.upc.es [147.83.2.50]); Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:47:50 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:24:24 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: hackers-list freebsd , David Schultz Subject: Re: TeXLive merge into FreeBSD ports tree - FreeBSD project idea X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:09:02 -0000 Enviat des del meu iTotxo (disculpeu la brevetat) Sent from my iBrick (excuse me for the brief message) >=20 >=20 > Quite a few conflicts and changes in dependencies are needed for TeXLive. T= eXLive does not just replace teTeX, but also ports like freetype-tools, t1ut= ils, jadetex, etc. I have patches for all ports I use, which has been workin= g for me for half a year. If TeXLive and teTeX were supposed to exist in por= ts in parallel for some time, something like bsd.tex.mk would be needed with= a generic way to specify tex related dependencies. Maybe this would be usef= ul for the transition period, since we probably would not want texlive-schem= e-tetex to replace all teTeX dependencies, but many people disagree that hav= ing both TeX at the same time in ports would be a good idea. >=20 > There are ports that I could not get to build with TeXLive at all: misc/fr= eebsd-doc-* There are too many error messages I do not understand. Someone w= ith a lot more insight will have to look at these, before TeXLive can replac= e teTeX in ports. I have posted to texlive-freebsd@googlegroups.com about th= is, but there were no answers. >=20 > I guess the biggest problem for people to put more effort into fixing TeXL= ive in FreeBSD ports is the huge disagreement about how a final solution sho= uld look like. >=20 > OT: FreeBSD might be more behind than others, but others have trouble with= TeXLive in their native packaging system, too: Nothing never than TeXLive 2= 009 made it into Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. >=20 > Cheers, > Jan Henrik > _______________________________________________ One (among others) problems is the TL nanescheme. They don't release packag= es with version number. Because of that maintaining the distinfo of thousand= s of packages is quite difficult. Then I'd vote for keeping an old version of the TL tarballs (like ubuntu d= oes) in the FreeBSD FTP distfiles dir and proceed with fixing the ports need= ing teTeX. =20 I did for gnome2 sometime ago and wasn't that for most of the gnome2 packa= ges. I would like to help if this patch is taken. =20 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 21:42:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1A35106566B for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:42:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 659E38FC0A for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:42:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so9498403obc.13 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:42:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HHwcwjiHGN9ug7IJlKUUk0VOA9B7rfzOu4cr+MW3ANM=; b=eTv0vh64+LTeJj9WTAPLLGtSvQAN27q07+HU2a+QT/W5ONTvLOaqMT3GrIPFGDty22 6mxQain1wo6gDOh4t5rcAfrqVnd9JZKt9Vwn7vF0vlYCQ8JPnKaqU3GcTm864kpvDFmL vOOMuI7/DcOhQM7dedHX9iyeN7BZ4lKPcREC0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=HHwcwjiHGN9ug7IJlKUUk0VOA9B7rfzOu4cr+MW3ANM=; b=fDXlfJWSKogAVYcLSvCIQLhFzFt2Y2oj1SF9Juir+CLPBHDEgCAm+tiBmCzXY3oELe UTvA7MxAH+sNrh5ikHO0yQQ/s1pD6nx9epHkFWoH++1AIMCcqLL4MFUzXluml6pyPp/x uzs43VYu8lptTMwJjA3UnvGjo875uYamcCv70HR17jtH/uTFyuCl7P7i5OnSAUyxr+nh OdED4vTYtU1YdTTpUrVN8x8+4KY+BoGSonP1paA/Zclp/38U38SvjtQyvJzpXe6WfRgE 3Ix2S91vE21bAZGIYyhuihRfC8pMoqTnIvhqZyrNgC4FQpsSy8rdLWx1hXrWu0aQ1PIY HH0A== Received: by 10.182.131.2 with SMTP id oi2mr13202189obb.43.1339969347636; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:42:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.125.70 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:41:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FD94240.6060806@delphij.net> <20120616163450.2d0fa3c7@bhuda.mired.org> From: Eitan Adler Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:41:57 -0700 Message-ID: To: Garrett Cooper Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmJwItL0ep2LzKI5WMQNqq9Hu8On2l/XKlZhWxG1TQYl3nntb9gx2MeHaNDKWrkZUP0HYV1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: BIO_DELETE equivalent for file on FFS filesystem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:42:28 -0000 On 16 June 2012 13:46, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>> > > What if you cp it? > =C2=A0 =C2=A0Our version of cp doesn't support sparsing of files, but Lin= ux's > does: http://linux.about.com/od/commands/l/blcmdl1_cp.htm Is this intentional that we don't support sparse files or just no one wrote the code? --=20 Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 22:45:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5FE1065670 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:45:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eric@shadowsun.net) Received: from mail.atlantawebhost.com (dns1.atlantawebhost.com [66.223.40.39]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 855698FC17 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:45:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 9071 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2012 18:45:46 -0400 Received: from c-71-192-38-198.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (HELO Macintosh-21.local) (71.192.38.198) by mail.atlantawebhost.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2012 18:45:46 -0400 Message-ID: <4FDE5E19.5050705@shadowsun.net> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 18:45:45 -0400 From: Eric McCorkle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FDBBACF.9040809@shadowsun.net> In-Reply-To: <4FDBBACF.9040809@shadowsun.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: EFI development tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:45:48 -0000 On 6/15/12 6:44 PM, Eric McCorkle wrote: > However, the EFI programs I produce using the EDK system work > properly, and don't have the same issues as the ones I produce using > what's in the base system. > Okay, after a whole lot of slogging, I figured out the root of the problems I've been seeing, and it needs to be addressed ASAP. When I compile the following program: #include #include #include #include int main() { printf("%d\n", UINT64); return 0; } as follows: gcc -o test -O2 -m32 -I${HEAD}/sys/boot/efi/include -I${HEAD}/sys/boot/efi/include/i386 -I${HEAD}/sys/boot/common test.c and run it, the output is 4, not 8 as it should be. You can replace UINT64 with uint64_t and see the same (erroneous) behavior. The -m32 flag seems to be the culprit; removing it fixes the problem. This is why I was having problems, as the offsets in EFI_SYSTEM_TABLE were wrong. In any case, this is a pretty serious error, and someone should try to reproduce it and take a look at it. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 23:10:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F28CB1065676 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 23:10:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eric@shadowsun.net) Received: from mail.atlantawebhost.com (dns1.atlantawebhost.com [66.223.40.39]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B829E8FC18 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 23:10:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 11575 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2012 19:10:50 -0400 Received: from c-71-192-38-198.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (HELO Macintosh-21.local) (71.192.38.198) by mail.atlantawebhost.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2012 19:10:50 -0400 Message-ID: <4FDE63F9.7060409@shadowsun.net> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 19:10:49 -0400 From: Eric McCorkle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FDBBACF.9040809@shadowsun.net> <4FDE5E19.5050705@shadowsun.net> In-Reply-To: <4FDE5E19.5050705@shadowsun.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: EFI development tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 23:10:51 -0000 On 6/17/12 6:45 PM, Eric McCorkle wrote: > On 6/15/12 6:44 PM, Eric McCorkle wrote: > > int main() { > printf("%d\n", UINT64); > return 0; > } > Correction: it should be sizeof(UINT64) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 00:26:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A5E1065670 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:26:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C53AB8FC0A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:26:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so7946700pbb.13 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:26:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=1YTohBTdLhSx+exxdSS52gCLJjxXGOXeD4x76PMPRZQ=; b=clRxX/MX7uQIHD6jaz2w1I+OdLOX0Gy4q8ZJrJQOVgG9PKfZxe2gJjMcxzXYqOVJVp LjfwDlxoXDeVxAO0Jhryb4sjHPrKp99dN70/4UUK6KLnbMotkco6ZaweocPhHuRlGffr JfyKHCjjzsNQ9FFhr3htHhcBeW+P6e4AcZ4KWiR1CMtGiDePJHjwBp7r7eR2Kz6y2jMB 0ebzJG+NNaFcS7S3a9h3hmSep7vCOLWFBfi7BxU1a8wc/5TRaLD7fiMqYL4EtuZ1mObC r9MoYU5P+e0a94bpY5ImQ1m7L8VsCxWQrqeoGpcoq2o2vkmBSW7D1AGOlNBo96pP1N/K VjBg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.222.103 with SMTP id ql7mr45497413pbc.68.1339979164456; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.143.91.18 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:26:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FDE63F9.7060409@shadowsun.net> References: <4FDBBACF.9040809@shadowsun.net> <4FDE5E19.5050705@shadowsun.net> <4FDE63F9.7060409@shadowsun.net> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:26:03 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: vVqtTyi9a-Nhz4H7We7jJUgi108 Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Eric McCorkle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EFI development tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:26:05 -0000 Hiya, don't suppose you could file a PR for this? Adrian On 17 June 2012 16:10, Eric McCorkle wrote: > On 6/17/12 6:45 PM, Eric McCorkle wrote: >> >> On 6/15/12 6:44 PM, Eric McCorkle wrote: >> > >> int main() { >> =A0 printf("%d\n", UINT64); >> =A0 return 0; >> } >> > > Correction: it should be sizeof(UINT64) > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 00:30:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10B9B106566C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:30:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eric@shadowsun.net) Received: from mail.atlantawebhost.com (dns1.atlantawebhost.com [66.223.40.39]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 992AF8FC0C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:30:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 19247 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2012 20:30:17 -0400 Received: from c-71-192-38-198.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (HELO Macintosh-21.local) (71.192.38.198) by mail.atlantawebhost.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2012 20:30:17 -0400 Message-ID: <4FDE7698.1080105@shadowsun.net> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:30:16 -0400 From: Eric McCorkle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Chadd References: <4FDBBACF.9040809@shadowsun.net> <4FDE5E19.5050705@shadowsun.net> <4FDE63F9.7060409@shadowsun.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EFI development tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:30:18 -0000 On 6/17/12 8:26 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > Hiya, > > don't suppose you could file a PR for this? > Typing one up just now, after figuring out the root cause. The short version is this: __uint64_t gets defined in as unsigned long. This breaks when you use -m32, in which case sizeof(unsigned long) == 4. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 00:43:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E34C106566C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:43:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41FE18FC08 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:43:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so3143431qcs.13 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:43:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:user-agent:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:date:to:message-id :x-gm-message-state; bh=6PxFtLdIXQJ1DXlu5KffdCHz0pqS7bY7GFq2p24ryV0=; b=MOez9g4ZWCiS7BvmKFUXxiHAKaUiHTw2ZLEqzJ3L92yzS0NtOpqlVoShUAy8rJ5lxR ibA9aPmVyDphdAb3i/vuwDOhaADHfNiUT4JoIrLwNOsqlwmSkM00DJ/ATOksbFpZQmZ7 P2Vni7rThAS9k2B5nOi8I3XEl+5IoPL0FDlzkyRq/0Ud6EhgBoEQkywBo4jtwACHdAad hXPboI+PuhxMieb0IW3m1JI7tsvmiR9PBSBuoqG82uFLmxo4qjgCQNJF+wvMPg33jS9B Sjl2F20CbO/ZokJq40z9JzZH48iS/n9LDFuw80jraRNDBa0OxHQ7JCjl8eyaSOtWGYqd 900g== Received: by 10.224.187.207 with SMTP id cx15mr3989706qab.47.1339980234675; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:43:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.195.145] (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dq7sm38024797qab.0.2012.06.17.17.43.52 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:43:53 -0700 (PDT) References: <4FDBBACF.9040809@shadowsun.net> <4FDE5E19.5050705@shadowsun.net> User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <4FDE5E19.5050705@shadowsun.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Mike Meyer Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:43:16 -0400 To: Eric McCorkle ,freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <2d9e0a80-658b-438f-90f0-1f510fb1cdd8@email.android.com> X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmgfpg8zUHe9/ZJXEkqNA2VAzR6PSfKXIqq65jNNJMcGF5nlqoQHGUJ/81hugthcmdELu56 Cc: Subject: Re: EFI development tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:43:55 -0000 Eric McCorkle wrote: >The -m32 flag seems to be the culprit; removing it fixes the problem. > >This is why I was having problems, as the offsets in EFI_SYSTEM_TABLE >were wrong. > >In any case, this is a pretty serious error, and someone should try to >reproduce it and take a look at it. This is a known issue, and had been around for a long time. You can't reliably build 32 bit binaries (what the -m32 flag specifies) on a 64 bit system. The header files (and possibly other things) are wrong. Doesn't look like anyone has opened a PR for it. -- Sent from my Android tablet. Please excuse my swyping. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 00:52:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D427A106566C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:52:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eric@shadowsun.net) Received: from mail.atlantawebhost.com (dns1.atlantawebhost.com [66.223.40.39]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2FC8FC08 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:52:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 21231 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2012 20:52:12 -0400 Received: from c-71-192-38-198.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (HELO Macintosh-21.local) (71.192.38.198) by mail.atlantawebhost.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2012 20:52:11 -0400 Message-ID: <4FDE7BBB.7040704@shadowsun.net> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:52:11 -0400 From: Eric McCorkle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FDBBACF.9040809@shadowsun.net> <4FDE5E19.5050705@shadowsun.net> <2d9e0a80-658b-438f-90f0-1f510fb1cdd8@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: <2d9e0a80-658b-438f-90f0-1f510fb1cdd8@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: EFI development tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:52:12 -0000 On 6/17/12 8:43 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > Eric McCorkle wrote: > >> The -m32 flag seems to be the culprit; removing it fixes the problem. >> >> This is why I was having problems, as the offsets in EFI_SYSTEM_TABLE >> were wrong. >> >> In any case, this is a pretty serious error, and someone should try to >> reproduce it and take a look at it. > > This is a known issue, and had been around for a long time. You can't reliably build 32 bit binaries (what the -m32 flag specifies) on a 64 bit system. The header files (and possibly other things) are wrong. > > Doesn't look like anyone has opened a PR for it. > I just did. I'll keep that in mind, as I'm working on the 32-bit EFI implementation on a 64-bit machine. In the short term, I'll edit efibind.h (or wherever UINT64 is defined in the efi hierarchy) in my checkout and add a workaround. That should, in theory, hold. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 01:31:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D0F106566C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 01:31:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com (mailout-us.gmx.com [74.208.5.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9AA888FC12 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 01:31:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 2714 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jun 2012 01:31:18 -0000 Received: from 67.206.185.231 by rms-us002.v300.gmx.net with HTTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:31:16 -0400 From: "Dieter BSD" Message-ID: <20120618013118.303420@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Authenticated: #74169980 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GMX-UID: seGsb+IX3zOlNR3dAHAh3SJ+IGRvb4CJ Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 01:31:25 -0000 [ Added multimedia@ as that is a more appropriate list than hackers ] > I just moved into a very cramped apartment > we are using a broadcast signal only [current US {NYC} standards] You'll need to know if you have any NTSC (analog) stations you care about or if everything is ATSC (digital).  Hopefully your building has a good antenna system. Next, select your tuner(s).  You have a choice of tuners that connect via Ethernet (HDHomeRun, pros: small external box, doesn't need a slot, works with any OS, better diagnostic info than others. cons: I've seen a *lot* of postings with people saying that various other tuners get better reception, digital only no NTSC analog), Firewire (if they are still available?), USB, PCIe cards (needs a slot), PCI cards (needs a slot). Some cards also do FM radio. > 2. What ports to install Depends on what tuner(s) you select. Cards based on cx88 need multimedia/cx88 and multimedia/libtuner http://corona.homeunix.net/cx88wiki has a list of supported cards. Some cards are supported by bktr(4). Make sure the tuner you select is supported by FreeBSD. Recording ATSC takes very little CPU.  Recording NTSC takes either a lot of CPU or hardware compression.  Decoding either takes a lot of CPU (or hardware decoding which AFAIK FreeBSD doesn't have). You can use at(1) for automated recordings.  A full ATSC channel is 19.3 Mbps. Some tuners allow filtering by PID, which saves disk space. For playback you can use mplayer or any of several similar programs. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 03:16:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94172106566B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 03:16:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49EBC8FC12 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 03:16:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5I3GCcD040533; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:16:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5I3GCPt040530; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:16:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:16:12 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Matthias Apitz In-Reply-To: <20120616185822.GA1253@tiny.Sisis.de> Message-ID: References: <4fb7dfd6.736a980a.186d.ffff902f@mx.google.com> <20120519180901.GA1264@tiny> <20120525183006.GA1259@tiny> <20120525225839.GA7347@server.rulingia.com> <20120527082745.GA2591@tinyCurrent> <20120616185822.GA1253@tiny.Sisis.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:16:12 -0600 (MDT) Cc: Wojciech Puchar , rozhuk.im@gmail.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: proper newfs options for SSD disk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 03:16:13 -0000 On Sat, 16 Jun 2012, Matthias Apitz wrote: > OK, but I wanted to have most of the space of the 4 GB SSD encrypted > with geli(8); so I should make there some slice containing /boot > (unencrypted) and a second slice which later will contain my HOME and > encrypted; wrong? That's correct: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=29652 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 08:11:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC40A106566C; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:11:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from atte.peltomaki@iki.fi) Received: from kameli.org (kameli.org [83.150.86.93]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91E258FC0C; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:11:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by kameli.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D556211F81E; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:11:40 +0300 (EEST) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:11:40 +0300 From: Atte =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peltom=E4ki?= To: Outback Dingo Message-ID: <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , openrc@gentoo.org, Nathan Whitehorn Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:11:48 -0000 On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 03:43:37PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote: > On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Atte Peltomäki wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 02:09:38PM -0400, Richard Yao wrote: > >> Also, I am certain that the OpenRC developers would be thrilled if > >> FreeBSD adopted OpenRC. If FreeBSD core is interested in OpenRC, feel > >> free to contact the OpenRC and/or the Gentoo FreeBSD developers. We > >> would all love to see OpenRC in upstream FreeBSD. > > > > Replacing rc(8) has a lot of risks and not many benefits. Current system > > is somewhat limited, but it works, it's simple to understand and > > everyone already knows it and uses it. > > > > Solaris SMF is by far the most advanced bootup/service manager I've come > > across, [...] > > > > Personally, as much as I like power of SMF, I think FreeBSD devs have > > much more important (and interesting) things to do. > > Theres always Launchd also......... Launchd is strikingly similar to SMF, which probably isn't a coincidence, knowing how much other code Apple pulled from Solaris during those days. -- Atte Peltomäki atte.peltomaki@iki.fi <> http://kameli.org "Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 12:39:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E892B106566B; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:39:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5740C8FC08; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:39:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5ICdeBB011779; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:39:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5ICde3n011776; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:39:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:39:40 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= In-Reply-To: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> Message-ID: References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:39:41 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , openrc@gentoo.org, Nathan Whitehorn Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:39:47 -0000 > Replacing rc(8) has a lot of risks and not many benefits. Current system if you make single-use system (for eg. X11 terminal) just delete most of files from /etc including /etc/rc and write your own - the simplest possibe, just put command to run all needed things. that's all. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 13:21:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB29106566B; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:21:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naylor.b.david@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E7EC8FC0A; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:21:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so5123557wgb.31 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:21:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:user-agent:cc:references:in-reply-to :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; bh=uBbW862zNvQ7Zudjhw18cK0m/ZY5lbLVOE105AXk780=; b=q/5zS+M4hCqENf2fwakfNIzGTMAx4hWbvMxf5UQuKBXykdg/HPNsgbv/lUgoa5tar3 jHIwdfwfASPEIHXeovxq1L/rFBwW4bcpT6f1ou2Gm4KPwdGWkD+lMeTVOZk+SHtJ5Oye ehDzRKdrY640zgpY8D6oOYJoORJnEMkijLY7IqVWG5RByIZ3lstaMzxmWscp1JAIhsnR xIFwMMyqzgPVfsHGpUUJOG1g2vI4laXtCp2jmBwLlIm400OurFhSvM8ibGn6T9H3mL5X aQfSAsKqj9dGykSpU3TQRQi4FROtzKUX0aPdmBYOwlI7d8B0og2/VE5RQ9LCzFhe4lNC khwQ== Received: by 10.180.78.161 with SMTP id c1mr24194173wix.1.1340025703152; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.dg (41-132-211-220.dsl.mweb.co.za. [41.132.211.220]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id et10sm25660749wib.2.2012.06.18.06.21.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:21:41 -0700 (PDT) From: David Naylor To: David Schultz Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:21:29 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/9.0-STABLE; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <4FDE2EE9.5020602@janh.de> <20120617200415.GA11652@zim.MIT.EDU> In-Reply-To: <20120617200415.GA11652@zim.MIT.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart12887154.MV0TCf0HVE"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206181521.33409.naylor.b.david@gmail.com> Cc: Jan Henrik Sylvester , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TeXLive merge into FreeBSD ports tree - FreeBSD project idea X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:21:51 -0000 --nextPart12887154.MV0TCf0HVE Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Summary of below. I have started an effort to get TeXLive into the FreeBSD= =20 ports. See github.com/DragonSA/texlive for details. Volunteers welcome. =20 On Sunday, 17 June 2012 22:04:15 David Schultz wrote: > On Sun, Jun 17, 2012, Jan Henrik Sylvester wrote: > > Even with a knob instead of checking if print/texlive-core is installed, > > it would put a lot of mess into the ports tree. Some maintainers will > > not agree to introduce these conditions, if there is no general > > agreement that we want to transition to TeXLive that way. teTeX hasn't been updated since 2006 and the maintainer of teTeX has=20 discontinued development and recommends using TeXLive. Undoubtably updatin= g=20 the TeXLive will break some things but the same could be said about teTeX i= f=20 an update existed. =20 Are there any people who don't want to migrate to TeXLive? > > As far as I remember, both romain@ and hrs@ have stated that they do not > > want both teTeX and TeXLive in the tree concurrently. Looking through the list of bundled packages for TeXLive it will be quite=20 difficult to have both TeXLive and teTeX in the tree concurrently. There a= re=20 a group of "support" ports, such as xdvik and ptex that require special=20 integration into either teTeX or TeXLive. To switch between either will=20 require reinstalling many dependencies, not just the TeXLive or teTeX ports= =2E =20 With that said, it is not impossible nor, I think, will it impose a big=20 maintenance burden. =20 =20 > In that case, it sounds like using TeXLive in FreeBSD will be a > bit tricky until someone steps in and does all the work required > for integration. Unfortunately I'm a bit time-constrained for the > next few months, but I do use TeXLive and would be happy to test > any proposed patches. I have started working on just this, getting TeXLive into FreeBSD ports. I= t=20 is still early days and I have only two monolithic ports, with texlive-base= =20 requiring lots of love. =20 I believe my work is in a state ready for initial testing (verifying the=20 ports) and some feedback. Some open questions are: - how to split texlive-texmf (OpenBSD has an approach) - how to handle bundled software that has existing (sometimes outdated) po= rts Also, I am looking for a sponsor: someone who will commit the ports when th= ey=20 are ready, and to provide feedback so that the ports may get to a ready sta= te. =20 =46or details about the project, and to get the ports, please see:=20 github.com/DragonSA/texlive Regards P.S. I am not subscribed to freebsd-ports@ so please CC me. =20 --nextPart12887154.MV0TCf0HVE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEABECAAYFAk/fK10ACgkQUaaFgP9pFrL/KQCeLCB/mjAcq11kDHrZKubxyDep /jUAnREPD1d2DIG7fvXIulNMNIfBNCSl =r2yE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart12887154.MV0TCf0HVE-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 15:19:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 060FC106564A; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:19:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B8918FC17; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:19:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IFJ2ca037055; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:19:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IFIv0V037052; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:19:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:18:57 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Dieter BSD In-Reply-To: <20120618013118.303420@gmx.com> Message-ID: References: <20120618013118.303420@gmx.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="2456600518-1686271342-1340032742=:37038" X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:19:08 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:19:54 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --2456600518-1686271342-1340032742=:37038 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > a lot of CPU or hardware compression.  Decoding either takes a lot of CPU > (or hardware decoding which AFAIK FreeBSD doesn't have). You can use watching SDTV movie takes very little part of one core of any modern CPU including intel atom. encoding SDTV will take more but still not much. watching HDTV should work on almost ANY modern PC CPU, including dual core/quad thread atom D525+included graphics, but with no other load as it will be close to saturating all cores/threads. most people vastly underestimate power of modern CPUs. --2456600518-1686271342-1340032742=:37038-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 15:23:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D00C106567C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:23:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB708FC16 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:23:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IFMiL7037091; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:22:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IFMXTY037088; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:22:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:22:33 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Matthias Apitz In-Reply-To: <20120616185822.GA1253@tiny.Sisis.de> Message-ID: References: <4fb7dfd6.736a980a.186d.ffff902f@mx.google.com> <20120519180901.GA1264@tiny> <20120525183006.GA1259@tiny> <20120525225839.GA7347@server.rulingia.com> <20120527082745.GA2591@tinyCurrent> <20120616185822.GA1253@tiny.Sisis.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:22:50 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, rozhuk.im@gmail.com Subject: Re: proper newfs options for SSD disk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:23:12 -0000 > OK, but I wanted to have most of the space of the 4 GB SSD encrypted > with geli(8); so I should make there some slice containing /boot > (unencrypted) and a second slice which later will contain my HOME and > encrypted; wrong? right. but do not forget bootloader requires things to be in /boot directory on boot partition so do it that way 20MB /b partition (a) rest - geli encrypted / partition (d) on / partition make link /boot -> /b/boot put /boot things in /b/boot well done custom kernel should fit in 10MB /b partition including boot loader. and you can gzip /boot/kernel/kernel From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 15:59:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBD74106566B; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:59:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from user.vdr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57B458FC0C; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:59:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhgm50 with SMTP id m50so4535567yhg.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:59:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Fy1Gapl0KXZZba86BpZpcVRhYb073AIJXljPmv7GbLQ=; b=D7inYqOoUcKw1omOWuHTPtyJZ/VFVnd2PjYpkU/JRh4eyb1gB2X4IAe+30bMqpWxXr O4hSwUrl2FNkGLmQWvQVg+A1EJAlBB56msqDs4y/vqxTMoZ+4vi5rh6Bs8cT7FDjexG/ jRhrQkXt7Xadyp+o4JLL/E2lr8TQAnEk0iart9awkDOd1A5r8Ldf9YoL4ExaLOzKHR6P ofs35g6M0REAOBw+a+xTGxW1y1h8y/IrCLOBQg0TZJmEe1TVW+AOTCcyl22WgXQYOX5m Mwlo98eAslJ7yuLzX1LyBWzLD+Y9RNTTJyJT52TtOZNcItib9xC80ZcKw4bpk8VVfger r05Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.106.136 with SMTP id gu8mr9078314igb.23.1340035176923; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.189.201 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:59:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120618013118.303420@gmx.com> References: <20120618013118.303420@gmx.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:59:36 -0700 Message-ID: From: VDR User To: Dieter BSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:07:55 +0000 Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:59:43 -0000 On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 6:31 PM, Dieter BSD wrote: > [ Added multimedia@ as that is a more appropriate list than hackers ] > >> I just moved into a very cramped apartment >> we are using a broadcast signal only [current US {NYC} standards] > > Recording ATSC takes very little CPU. =C2=A0Recording NTSC takes either > a lot of CPU or hardware compression. =C2=A0Decoding either takes a lot o= f CPU > (or hardware decoding which AFAIK FreeBSD doesn't have). You can use > at(1) for automated recordings. =C2=A0A full ATSC channel is 19.3 Mbps. > Some tuners allow filtering by PID, which saves disk space. Recording doesn't require any compression unless you are transcoding in real-time. There's no difference between recording ATSC, NTSC, PAL, etc, and it's actually irrelevant what the stream is. The broadcast streams are digital so when you "record" them, you are actually just saving the stream to some type of media (usually a harddrive). It's like saving a file where the file contents is audio/video, and it takes however long your show/timer/etc is. The only impact on the cpu is the same impact you have when you save any big file -- very little on any modern cpu. Lastly, it's possible to save a single channel or the entire stream which usually contains several channels. Even when saving the full stream, it likely uses far less bandwidth than your media offers so there's no problem there. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 17:13:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D21341065674; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:13:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vince@unsane.co.uk) Received: from unsane.co.uk (unsane-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f08:110::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41FE48FC17; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:13:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vincemacbook.unsane.co.uk (vincemacbook.unsane.co.uk [10.10.10.20]) (authenticated bits=0) by unsane.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IHDcMw089606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:13:38 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from vince@unsane.co.uk) Message-ID: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:12:23 +0100 From: Vincent Hoffman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120601 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> In-Reply-To: <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , Richard Yao , openrc@gentoo.org, "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:13:40 -0000 On 18/06/2012 09:11, Atte Peltomäki wrote: > On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 03:43:37PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote: >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Atte Peltomäki wrote: >>> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 02:09:38PM -0400, Richard Yao wrote: >>>> Also, I am certain that the OpenRC developers would be thrilled if >>>> FreeBSD adopted OpenRC. If FreeBSD core is interested in OpenRC, feel >>>> free to contact the OpenRC and/or the Gentoo FreeBSD developers. We >>>> would all love to see OpenRC in upstream FreeBSD. >>> Replacing rc(8) has a lot of risks and not many benefits. Current system >>> is somewhat limited, but it works, it's simple to understand and >>> everyone already knows it and uses it. >>> >>> Solaris SMF is by far the most advanced bootup/service manager I've come >>> across, [...] >>> >>> Personally, as much as I like power of SMF, I think FreeBSD devs have >>> much more important (and interesting) things to do. >> Theres always Launchd also......... > Launchd is strikingly similar to SMF, which probably isn't a > coincidence, knowing how much other code Apple pulled from Solaris > during those days. > There was even some work done to get it working for FreeBSD if anyone feels like taking it up again. http://wiki.freebsd.org/launchd From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 17:21:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA57B1065680 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:21:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com (mailout-us.gmx.com [74.208.5.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8CD6D8FC0C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:21:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 31173 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jun 2012 17:21:47 -0000 Received: from 67.206.186.186 by rms-us009.v300.gmx.net with HTTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:21:43 -0400 From: "Dieter BSD" Message-ID: <20120618172144.303410@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Authenticated: #74169980 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GMX-UID: /watb+EX3zOlNR3dAHAhC/N+IGRvbwAm Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:21:49 -0000 user.vdr writes: > Recording doesn't require any compression unless you are transcoding > in real-time. There's no difference between recording ATSC, NTSC, PAL, > etc, and it's actually irrelevant what the stream is. This is incorrect.  ATSC is compressed before broadcast, so you receive the data already compresed.  NTSC and PAL are broadcast in analog.  The tuner performs A-to-D which gives an uncompressed data stream.  Have fun trying to store that. As a practical matter, you have to compress the data in real time. Some, not all, tuners include hardware compression. > Lastly, it's possible to save a single channel or the entire stream > which usually contains several channels. Even when saving the full > stream, it likely uses far less bandwidth than your media offers so > there's no problem there. This appariently refers to ATSC.  Yes, modern disks have plenty of bandwidth to store the entire ATSC stream.  The main reason to filter PIDs is to save disk *space*.  Also, some software can't select which program to decode. Wojciech writes: > most people vastly underestimate power of modern CPUs. Many people overestimate the "moderness" of most people's CPUs. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 17:23:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90A091065670 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:23:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com (mailout-us.gmx.com [74.208.5.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5EC8B8FC18 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:23:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 14259 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jun 2012 17:23:26 -0000 Received: from 67.206.186.186 by rms-us006.v300.gmx.net with HTTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:23:25 -0400 From: "Dieter BSD" Message-ID: <20120618172326.303450@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Authenticated: #74169980 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GMX-UID: WQGtb+0X3zOlNR3dAHAhofN+IGRvbwDt Subject: Re: EFI development tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:23:43 -0000 > This is a known issue, and had been around for a long time. > You can't reliably build 32 bit binaries (what the -m32 flag specifies) > on a 64 bit system. The header files (and possibly other things) are wrong. People build 32 bit binaries on 64 bit systems all the time. It is called cross-compiling. I rather doubt that just setting the -m32 flag is sufficient to set up a proper cross-compiling environment. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 17:31:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96DBA1065670; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:31:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72EEE8FC14; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:31:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A14561B4030; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:31:16 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:29:42 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120613 Thunderbird/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vincent Hoffman References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:53:31 +0000 Cc: Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:31:24 -0000 On 06/18/2012 01:12 PM, Vincent Hoffman wrote: > On 18/06/2012 09:11, Atte Peltomäki wrote: >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 03:43:37PM -0400, Outback Dingo wrote: >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Atte Peltomäki wrote: >>>> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 02:09:38PM -0400, Richard Yao wrote: >>>>> Also, I am certain that the OpenRC developers would be thrilled if >>>>> FreeBSD adopted OpenRC. If FreeBSD core is interested in OpenRC, feel >>>>> free to contact the OpenRC and/or the Gentoo FreeBSD developers. We >>>>> would all love to see OpenRC in upstream FreeBSD. >>>> Replacing rc(8) has a lot of risks and not many benefits. Current system >>>> is somewhat limited, but it works, it's simple to understand and >>>> everyone already knows it and uses it. >>>> >>>> Solaris SMF is by far the most advanced bootup/service manager I've come >>>> across, [...] >>>> >>>> Personally, as much as I like power of SMF, I think FreeBSD devs have >>>> much more important (and interesting) things to do. >>> Theres always Launchd also......... >> Launchd is strikingly similar to SMF, which probably isn't a >> coincidence, knowing how much other code Apple pulled from Solaris >> during those days. >> > There was even some work done to get it working for FreeBSD if anyone > feels like taking it up again. > http://wiki.freebsd.org/launchd > Would someone elaborate on what launchd and SMF do well in comparison to OpenRC (or FreeBSD's init)? Gentoo does active OpenRC development. If there is anything that it could do better, please do not hesitate to let us know so that improvements can be made. Would licensing be a problem for either SMF or launchd? I know that CDDL code is not allowed in GENERIC kernels, so I would be surprised if SMF would be acceptable for FreeBSD's init system. I am not sure what the situation is for Apache 2.0 licensed code, but I would think that FreeBSD would code that is available under the 2-clause BSD license. With that said, the Gentoo developers already have OpenRC working on FreeBSD and OpenRC is available under the 2-clause BSD license, so it should have a compatible license. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 18:31:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9EB9106564A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:31:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0DE8FC17 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:31:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IIVXNJ093580 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:31:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IIVXQc093577 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:31:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:31:33 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:31:33 +0200 (CEST) Subject: /proc filesystem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:31:38 -0000 where can i find description of field of files /proc/*/map ? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 18:42:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CCB1106564A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:42:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nwhitehorn@freebsd.org) Received: from adsum.doit.wisc.edu (adsum.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BAF98FC0A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:42:38 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from avs-daemon.smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu by smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) id <0M5T00C04TAWLJ00@smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:42:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from wanderer.tachypleus.net (i3-user-nat.icecube.wisc.edu [128.104.255.12]) by smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0M5T005NWTARLY10@smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu>; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:42:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:42:27 -0500 From: Nathan Whitehorn In-reply-to: <2d9e0a80-658b-438f-90f0-1f510fb1cdd8@email.android.com> To: Mike Meyer Message-id: <4FDF7693.6010506@freebsd.org> X-Spam-Report: AuthenticatedSender=yes, SenderIP=128.104.255.12 X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-13, Version=5.6.1.2065439, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2012.6.18.183016, SenderIP=128.104.255.12 References: <4FDBBACF.9040809@shadowsun.net> <4FDE5E19.5050705@shadowsun.net> <2d9e0a80-658b-438f-90f0-1f510fb1cdd8@email.android.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120502 Thunderbird/12.0 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Eric McCorkle Subject: Re: EFI development tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:42:38 -0000 On 06/17/12 19:43, Mike Meyer wrote: > Eric McCorkle wrote: > >> The -m32 flag seems to be the culprit; removing it fixes the problem. >> >> This is why I was having problems, as the offsets in EFI_SYSTEM_TABLE >> were wrong. >> >> In any case, this is a pretty serious error, and someone should try to >> reproduce it and take a look at it. > This is a known issue, and had been around for a long time. You can't reliably build 32 bit binaries (what the -m32 flag specifies) on a 64 bit system. The header files (and possibly other things) are wrong. > > Doesn't look like anyone has opened a PR for it. > This isn't as complicated as you make it seem. buildworld already does it to build the things in lib32 and on some platforms (mips and powerpc) the headers are the same for both 32- and 64-bit systems and so -m32 works perfectly already. All that is needed on x86 is some further header unification, which seems to be in progress. Moreover, if you are building standalone binaries (which the EFI stuff probably is) it should just work now, since standalone code doesn't depend on system headers. -Nathan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 18:22:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD3C6106566B; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:22:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from user.vdr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 705A48FC0C; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:22:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so4542005ghb.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:22:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XBl0VTnm5U8RucdQJOBT3a9noH2XT2ahcyN6+5P3Uc0=; b=XFf9ODtOE8duA1fpfvhzDwkpYgBOj8x7VhEvYK8GwQqcUOOUwtH4pEYRv4WxNaA4er DgKQ9eCYJKyX+pbFh+p+4OkTPHDq4O4Gd9Wwt1+ysoqGq5cKZXMUV4GF++DlSuJyCdKt ytfZ1/OtqtgLM13tU992w3n6Sl9e9vEO3VJ4nPaBSF9+hcW/sIX03OCU3TMJ3pa09npw rONWAiP4WMgLB9Ruy6FMO4f54huWixkDklB4XWd3TxcPbVo74KcnhUrzVd5t060DeGFT k33MKpWQ3bnDCoSTbyGEmMrRfHs7XQOPEP4m4ubc/KuBMaVsna+imJK0cwn22LHzBzm2 34GA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.100.169 with SMTP id ez9mr9362807igb.44.1340043728827; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:22:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.189.201 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:22:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120618172144.303410@gmx.com> References: <20120618172144.303410@gmx.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:22:08 -0700 Message-ID: From: VDR User To: Dieter BSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:51:22 +0000 Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:22:11 -0000 On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Dieter BSD wrote= : > user.vdr writes: >> Recording doesn't require any compression unless you are transcoding >> in real-time. There's no difference between recording ATSC, NTSC, PAL, >> etc, and it's actually irrelevant what the stream is. > > This is incorrect. =C2=A0ATSC is compressed before broadcast, so > you receive the data already compresed. =C2=A0NTSC and PAL are > broadcast in analog. =C2=A0The tuner performs A-to-D which gives > an uncompressed data stream. =C2=A0Have fun trying to store that. > As a practical matter, you have to compress the data in real time. > Some, not all, tuners include hardware compression. All consumer digital broadcasts are compressed typically with mpeg2 or mpeg= 4. With very very very few exceptions, all analog NTSC broadcasts have been switched to digital, by the FCC mandated deadline of June 12, 2009. Tuners perform demodulation, not decompression. There are a few "premium" or "full-featured" devices which have an on-board decoder such as a Hauppauge Nexus-s or the TechnoTrend S2-6400. You absolutely do NOT have to reencode a stream unless you want to alter the resolution, bitrate, or compression method. Tuners do NOT provide raw audio/video to the system in any case. >> Lastly, it's possible to save a single channel or the entire stream >> which usually contains several channels. Even when saving the full >> stream, it likely uses far less bandwidth than your media offers so >> there's no problem there. > > This appariently refers to ATSC. =C2=A0Yes, modern disks have plenty > of bandwidth to store the entire ATSC stream. =C2=A0The main reason > to filter PIDs is to save disk *space*. =C2=A0Also, some software > can't select which program to decode. It refers to ANY multiplex. Again, the standard used for broadcast is irrelevant. Also, any program that can tune a channel has the ability to filter the pids, otherwise it would be impossible to tune a channel. > Wojciech writes: >> most people vastly underestimate power of modern CPUs. > > Many people overestimate the "moderness" of most people's CPUs. An old Pentium 4 3ghz can decode HD with plenty of cpu resources to spare so unless a person using something older than that, they've certainly got "modern" cpu power. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 19:01:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC699106566B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:01:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dcherednik@roshianokatachi.com) Received: from smtp.nanocore.sportcomitet.org (mail.sportcomitet.org [78.47.203.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 991DF8FC0C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:01:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.nanocore.sportcomitet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D48AAC06C9 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:56:33 +0400 (MSK) Received: from nxs1.localnet (ppp91-76-112-188.pppoe.mtu-net.ru [91.76.112.188]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: dcherednik@roshianokatachi.com) by smtp.nanocore.sportcomitet.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 66972C0530 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:56:33 +0400 (MSK) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Daniil Cherednik Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:56:30 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206182256.30535.dcherednik@roshianokatachi.com> X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent X-DSPAM-Processed: Mon Jun 18 22:56:33 2012 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 1.0000 X-DSPAM-Improbability: 1 in 98689409 chance of being spam X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.0023 X-DSPAM-Signature: 24,4fdf79e1298013881511382 X-DSPAM-Factors: 27, beginner+#+kernel, 0.40000, Received*Postfix+with, 0.40000, pushl+#+#+3, 0.40000, Received*with+#+id, 0.40000, works+#+I, 0.40000, just+c, 0.40000, of+fast, 0.40000, to+#+the, 0.40000, beginner+in, 0.40000, Received*Authenticated+sender, 0.40000, was+changed, 0.40000, to+#+#+in, 0.40000, To*freebsd-hackers+freebsd.org, 0.40000, Received*using+TLSv1, 0.40000, see+#+#+was, 0.40000, continue+the, 0.40000, frame+#+edx, 0.40000, Date*18+#+2012, 0.40000, store+#+to, 0.40000, Unfortunately+#+am, 0.40000, some+#+1, 0.40000, What+is, 0.40000, In+#+store, 0.40000, Date*Mon+#+#+#+22, 0.40000, have+#+#+1, 0.40000, esi+#+calling, 0.40000, 3+#+#+#+movl, 0.40000 Subject: Fast syscalls via sysenter X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:01:47 -0000 Hi! I am trying to continue the work started by DavidXu on implemention of fast syscalls via sysenter/sysexit. http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/ I have ported it on FreeBSD9. It looks like it works. Unfortunately I am a beginner in kernel so I have some questions: 1. see http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/kernel.patch /* * If %edx was changed, we can not use sysexit, because it * needs %edx to restore userland %eip. */ if (orig_edx != frame.tf_edx) td->td_pcb->pcb_flags |= PCB_FULLCTX; What is the reason why we have to do this additional check? In http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/sysenter.s we store %edx to the stack in pushl %edx /* ring 3 next %eip */ and we restore the register in popl %edx /* ring 3 %eip */ 2. see http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/sysenter.s movl PCPU(CURPCB),%esi call syscall Why do we movl PCPU(CURPCB),%esi before calling syscall? syscall is just c- function. -- Daniil Cherednik From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 20:30:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D971065674 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:30:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrey@zonov.org) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0F198FC12 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:30:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so5867000lbo.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:30:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=BBxy1R34Z8OrHnLi56AgBIKo2nHXPXbOl7KwyHYmtmo=; b=NP8BCFHEN8UInlkSu7HnneGqZP3IM3w1TUvuJVjuqIQLkHveYza44crDCRX4VAb/Qv vju1kx0UsgAQGolX4xjUDzxsDI9ej51XyV6TUtPwn3bfpE7+pIYiET3iaMabozbtFx1w P6SxRkmMVtXCJGmmev7Xga7PQXxEQhxHq6MB4RmTy9YAWhFuKn4C/ZnQb+2jPRVOFVIO /dwHSF+Ubi7mv8owdAbw/E9daYCNWtqdldzbOwqj1o2pYwjHfF7UQ8XvAHjyYTsYdYu7 QxUkY/o7N+XhwqBqB54u4JqRIW+YzWu366F+AYoKpdycYF3rCDrgiSDAZhuxjnSFvdQP +G/w== Received: by 10.152.146.67 with SMTP id ta3mr15754289lab.27.1340051443510; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zont-osx.local (ppp95-165-145-106.pppoe.spdop.ru. [95.165.145.106]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id pi5sm29114753lab.7.2012.06.18.13.30.42 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FDF8FF1.7020202@zonov.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:30:41 +0400 From: Andrey Zonov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnYv/K/iT1gWl1jjjxuWpyT7QBqJxs/8rytIakAQnI332nW7yiCFE6gOJ2Cb6MswxVNYaRP Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /proc filesystem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:30:45 -0000 On 6/18/12 10:31 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > where can i find description of field of files /proc/*/map > ? Use procstat -v instead. All fields are documented in procstat(1). -- Andrey Zonov From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 20:46:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EF741065673 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:46:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-qa0-f52.google.com (mail-qa0-f52.google.com [209.85.216.52]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5E848FC17 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:46:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qabj34 with SMTP id j34so2125168qab.11 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:46:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=jV5NEU9Nw5wqiWO6yW9TN/Um4cGPQZLaYOKaU2dNXFw=; b=emLokhlxNGAUV2dLSY4FtB1/m0mYV4fa0DXw/UR9uCS5ErUu3sxDwZneV8Lu3fAMTZ VP9yt1//sqiBPEllv8PdmSqawdrn/ZbmaBKvrv5GimmeZM0LlVUoWI8sv2g+Tbhr9EyE V90KiKMILhdv+nt/ADHesYC+rj1w5X0BZ2Xf5PyBHqb2WxnW3ilRyHSvTV3pAXrEhlQR OQVc3JYQOImHw7ZUtRb8c9OHsLKK+9bDrsEy7TKYOih2yVbRB5wpNMjmdwOD+FPgo8hK G7dkrslZFGT2S5oXOmaX9KS6Kjc67EFP7vut5fdNcQyE6pyyIV9ZFN+4LUfPObfl+2UW fhLA== Received: by 10.229.136.148 with SMTP id r20mr8344170qct.58.1340052396941; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bhuda.mired.org (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n2sm43499347qap.10.2012.06.18.13.46.36 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:46:32 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120618164632.0c11695b@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <4FDF7693.6010506@freebsd.org> References: <4FDBBACF.9040809@shadowsun.net> <4FDE5E19.5050705@shadowsun.net> <2d9e0a80-658b-438f-90f0-1f510fb1cdd8@email.android.com> <4FDF7693.6010506@freebsd.org> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmywdUEbJ8OtY5GTFyIIOl0G3YMnwj1zRscsDbgenMRQRoYu3E1AAzdNdvnjMj5SfdDB34J Subject: Re: EFI development tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:46:38 -0000 On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:42:27 -0500 Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > On 06/17/12 19:43, Mike Meyer wrote: > > Eric McCorkle wrote: > >> The -m32 flag seems to be the culprit; removing it fixes the problem. > >> This is why I was having problems, as the offsets in EFI_SYSTEM_TABLE > >> were wrong. > >> In any case, this is a pretty serious error, and someone should try to > >> reproduce it and take a look at it. > > This is a known issue, and had been around for a long time. You can't reliably build 32 bit binaries (what the -m32 flag specifies) on a 64 bit system. The header files (and possibly other things) are wrong. > > Doesn't look like anyone has opened a PR for it. > This isn't as complicated as you make it seem. buildworld already does > it to build the things in lib32 and on some platforms (mips and powerpc) > the headers are the same for both 32- and 64-bit systems and so -m32 > works perfectly already. All that is needed on x86 is some further > header unification, which seems to be in progress. It isn't as simple as you make it seem, either. buildworld has been cross-compiling for years now. But buildworld builds against system headers/libraries/etc other than those installed on the system, so making it use the appropriate ones for a cross-compile is a straightforward modification. Changing a build process that expect to build against the headers/libraries/etc installed on the system is a lot more work. The header unification has been "in progress" for years. We still don't have general-purpose cross-compiling working - at least not for FreeBSD targets. I admit that I haven't been following the issue, as my need for it vanished with my last 32-bit system (years ago), so it may be possible with the right set of ports installed, as it is for non-FreeBSD targets. > Moreover, if you are building standalone binaries (which the EFI > stuff probably is) it should just work now, since standalone code > doesn't depend on system headers. Except the headers they do depend on (like ctype.h) depend on system headers. http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 22:53:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F310B106571B; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:53:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26714154949; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:53:27 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:53:26 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120604 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Yao References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:53:31 -0000 It's unfortunate that this thread evolved into a discussion about replacing rc.d, since that's almost certainly not relevant to the original topic of improving the overall boot time. If you analyze the boot process thoroughly you should see that out of the total time taken to boot, nearly 0 is spent by rc.d actually doing something. Almost all of the actual time is spent waiting for other stuff, either the kernel (primarily) or the services that the system is running actually starting up. The latter item is the only place where making changes to rc.d is going to help, and only then by parellelizing, and even then you are not really going to gain much since most things at boot time are serial. So while talk of how to get your favorite boot-time manager into FreeBSD may be entertaining, it's not likely to be productive, and almost certainly isn't going to help the goal of actually making the boot time faster. But, I'm willing to be proven wrong by someone who actually _implements_ one of these systems and can demonstrate, in a statistically rigorous fashion, how much the boot time is improved. Doug From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 23:19:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2885810657DF for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:19:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bfalk_bsd@brandonfa.lk) Received: from mail-qa0-f42.google.com (mail-qa0-f42.google.com [209.85.216.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BD9F8FC0C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:19:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qafi31 with SMTP id i31so1611255qaf.15 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:19:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=brandonfa.lk; s=google; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kOSKxUMZeJ6FBxG9h1pPbI4zuQvWFN088XGaQpRD8b8=; b=kcvNBHyvBQ8orN5RuhLfGKfwNvNcL7S5SdTXm8MV5MfbX59iDcwl82SF1TP+tohJ7u sVeThPKSv5AdQo/5k80eBwdcb9FqBYGQZuN8A1Mjp0TApr1G0US6KhiE5R6mwb4jOfGC 7AvlYKU3hNf/gz+7vjvR0zmwIa3ZoUAFQAGsM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=kOSKxUMZeJ6FBxG9h1pPbI4zuQvWFN088XGaQpRD8b8=; b=ECQuqvtwCmd+ctXPnubBgnRjIuv08mK/XRZdZkn8LcEw+1bJ0Ebz/iE+jFqLEp/o81 1iMRsDj6SR660SppUty/aiEXcb6xaevzA38ZB7XUu7MLQGtNnOdD2ikuTbbXnwh+ZZuv nVmY6IsshRriKMhepGlNhNlDPWKNKqvoIddGrxPu+zGDxbb+SIs1U//OYzBb9aCCKlIJ hXMyJMQk2PF5jCO/989JhfFdTvmtrioJZm88sVba5dRsNOCHYzUVq+4Mn2qkahgHBdXJ HmxfjEhvAnT93f8hU1DIfoZ4+jHXhQD5t16j4SClsOd5ZMXbHbbVj7WM3QFC2dkquMy2 Iu5A== Received: by 10.224.205.194 with SMTP id fr2mr30260178qab.66.1340061542551; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.42.64] (wsip-184-183-177-134.dc.dc.cox.net. [184.183.177.134]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id di8sm44320994qab.8.2012.06.18.16.18.58 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:18:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FDFB761.60406@brandonfa.lk> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:18:57 -0400 From: Brandon Falk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnhi9jS/bHSDTnGCNOJxE3dgdIQ1VCx0xHxC7bB7oNOewAfcIufKQ2Ax/RJMp2WDg4dH+kD Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:19:04 -0000 As the original poster of this thread, I can also say that Doug is correct. The issue is not rc, it is the actual kernel boot process. Maybe I could see rc becoming an issue in a massive server environment where there are a lot of userland processes to start, but that delay would most likely be in the programs themselves and not rc (I think of rc as more of a dispatcher). When it comes to a desktop/laptop/simple server and all you do with rc is configure a static IP, start dbus/hal/sshd, and maybe launch a few jails... at least 90-98% of the boot process is spent doing the kernel work. -Brandon On 6/18/2012 6:53 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > It's unfortunate that this thread evolved into a discussion about > replacing rc.d, since that's almost certainly not relevant to the > original topic of improving the overall boot time. > > If you analyze the boot process thoroughly you should see that out of > the total time taken to boot, nearly 0 is spent by rc.d actually doing > something. Almost all of the actual time is spent waiting for other > stuff, either the kernel (primarily) or the services that the system is > running actually starting up. > > The latter item is the only place where making changes to rc.d is going > to help, and only then by parellelizing, and even then you are not > really going to gain much since most things at boot time are serial. > > So while talk of how to get your favorite boot-time manager into FreeBSD > may be entertaining, it's not likely to be productive, and almost > certainly isn't going to help the goal of actually making the boot time > faster. > > But, I'm willing to be proven wrong by someone who actually _implements_ > one of these systems and can demonstrate, in a statistically rigorous > fashion, how much the boot time is improved. > > Doug > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 23:07:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A79151065677; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:07:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81D0D8FC1C; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:07:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5ACA21B4017; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:07:22 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:05:49 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120613 Thunderbird/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 01:26:06 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:07:23 -0000 On 06/18/2012 06:53 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > It's unfortunate that this thread evolved into a discussion about > replacing rc.d, since that's almost certainly not relevant to the > original topic of improving the overall boot time. > > If you analyze the boot process thoroughly you should see that out of > the total time taken to boot, nearly 0 is spent by rc.d actually doing > something. Almost all of the actual time is spent waiting for other > stuff, either the kernel (primarily) or the services that the system is > running actually starting up. > > The latter item is the only place where making changes to rc.d is going > to help, and only then by parellelizing, and even then you are not > really going to gain much since most things at boot time are serial. > > So while talk of how to get your favorite boot-time manager into FreeBSD > may be entertaining, it's not likely to be productive, and almost > certainly isn't going to help the goal of actually making the boot time > faster. > > But, I'm willing to be proven wrong by someone who actually _implements_ > one of these systems and can demonstrate, in a statistically rigorous > fashion, how much the boot time is improved. > > Doug Doug, we already have OpenRC implemented. You can install Gentoo FreeBSD in a jail, install regular FreeBSD in another jail and do your own performance comparisons. Here are instructions: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_FreeBSD#Howto_run_G.2FFBSD_in_vanilla_FreeBSD.27s_jail Is there anything else that you need? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 04:39:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A6BF106566C; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:39:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B58EF8FC14; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:39:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5J4ddws001841; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:39:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5J4ddSQ001838; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:39:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:39:39 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Doug Barton In-Reply-To: <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:39:40 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:39:48 -0000 > replacing rc.d, since that's almost certainly not relevant to the > original topic of improving the overall boot time. indeed. > > If you analyze the boot process thoroughly you should see that out of > the total time taken to boot, nearly 0 is spent by rc.d actually doing > something. Almost all of the actual time is spent waiting for other > stuff, either the kernel (primarily) or the services that the system is > running actually starting up. > most of boot time consist of - delay in bootloader. setting autoboot_delay can partially delay it, delay to zero can be achieved by patching first stage booter that too add delay - delay in kernel initialization. making custom kernel helps of course but still it takes eg 10 seconds on my laptop. putting things that are not needed instantly at boot - as module - may help. USB being prime example. - delay at rc.d scripts - there are some delays inserted. > The latter item is the only place where making changes to rc.d is going > to help, and only then by parellelizing, and even then you are not > really going to gain much since most things at boot time are serial. grep sleep /etc/rc.d/* usr/local/etc/rc.d/* > > So while talk of how to get your favorite boot-time manager into FreeBSD > may be entertaining, it's not likely to be productive, and almost it is unimportant as FreeBSD don't crash. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 04:47:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C6FD106566B for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:47:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A9968FC08 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:47:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5J4lNxt001971; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:47:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5J4lNqO001968; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:47:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:47:23 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Andrey Zonov In-Reply-To: <4FDF8FF1.7020202@zonov.org> Message-ID: References: <4FDF8FF1.7020202@zonov.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:47:23 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /proc filesystem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:47:27 -0000 that is what i need. but still need some explanation after using it and reading manual say: PID START END PRT RES PRES REF SHD FL TP PATH 1378 0x400000 0x5ac000 r-x 385 415 2 1 CN- vn /usr/local/bin/Xorg 1378 0x7ab000 0x7bc000 rw- 17 0 1 0 C-- vn /usr/local/bin/Xorg 1378 0x7bc000 0x800000 rw- 14 0 1 0 C-- df 1378 0x8007ab000 0x8007c3000 r-x 24 0 32 0 CN- vn /libexec/ld-elf.so.1 1378 0x8007c3000 0x8007f0000 rw- 43 0 1 0 C-- df 1378 0x8007f0000 0x8007f2000 rw- 1 0 4 0 --- dv 1378 0x8007f2000 0x8007f4000 rw- 2 0 4 0 --- dv 1378 0x8007f4000 0x800874000 rw- 11 0 4 0 --- dv 1378 0x800874000 0x800884000 rw- 16 0 4 0 --- dv 1378 0x800884000 0x800895000 rw- 10 0 1 0 CN- df 1378 0x8009c2000 0x8009c5000 rw- 3 0 1 0 C-- df 1) Xorg is mapped twice - IMHO first is text/rodata second is data. But what "REF" really means here and why it is 2 once and 1 second. 2) what really PRES ("private resident") means? df (default) mappings are IMHO anonymous maps==private data of process. so why RES is nonzero while PRES is zero, while on shared code PRES is nonzero and large. what does it really means? thanks. On Tue, 19 Jun 2012, Andrey Zonov wrote: > On 6/18/12 10:31 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> where can i find description of field of files /proc/*/map >> ? > > Use procstat -v instead. All fields are documented in procstat(1). > > -- > Andrey Zonov > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 05:58:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92950106566C; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:58:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fernando.apesteguia@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F7038FC1D; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:58:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so6448449lbo.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:58:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=5I+F+cMKgwOevUxTwqnS/atSegWWEej1xZLKFOVP5RE=; b=ozZFshP5XUygRwVs+VCyyxUNSFkhcjNU9qDukNp5DcdtrffVUvlDpg9pU43eDiziRU mQdGoV6IDap/6QbxOmfyUN2CsDLvqA/1bXfPNlkWuIKJTGwOZ4+Az28TOBT1O6mgWIKv VZ9Bp0ah7I9NThj69d6Bbc04sS14FuGgVuiCHAKiKgZN7xpSVhby23T6ZY+tUJGLfFiJ K63S9MjFbfXSZM6Z0Ss6mNK5FlL3l5hQkftAsXOlLCIl+ZCm2Zm2vOqWYQgm5aDHpVGJ PAE9bdOb0wBuxSB9/tP9djYhiV7az/NKCfeTmcJNb3OyM7qy2L30JYKPGZGqKhxgAcKP dIgg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.29.166 with SMTP id l6mr7621787lbh.68.1340085522809; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.24.131 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:58:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:58:42 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=EDa?= To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:58:50 -0000 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 6:39 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> replacing rc.d, since that's almost certainly not relevant to the >> original topic of improving the overall boot time. > > > indeed. > > >> >> If you analyze the boot process thoroughly you should see that out of >> the total time taken to boot, nearly 0 is spent by rc.d actually doing >> something. Almost all of the actual time is spent waiting for other >> stuff, either the kernel (primarily) or the services that the system is >> running actually starting up. >> > most of boot time consist of > > - delay in bootloader. setting autoboot_delay can partially delay it, delay > to zero can be achieved by patching first stage booter that too add delay > > - delay in kernel initialization. making custom kernel helps of course but > still it takes eg 10 seconds on my laptop. putting things that are not > needed instantly at boot - as module - may help. USB being prime example. > > - delay at rc.d scripts - there are some delays inserted. > > >> The latter item is the only place where making changes to rc.d is going >> to help, and only then by parellelizing, and even then you are not >> really going to gain much since most things at boot time are serial. > > > grep sleep /etc/rc.d/* usr/local/etc/rc.d/* > > >> >> So while talk of how to get your favorite boot-time manager into FreeBSD >> may be entertaining, it's not likely to be productive, and almost > > > it is unimportant as FreeBSD don't crash. Please, re-read already sent mails in this thread about that statement so we don't get stuck in a loop. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 06:56:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88B7D1065675; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:56:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED47A8FC1F; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:56:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5J6ufeb005627; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:56:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5J6ueox005624; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:56:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:56:40 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: VDR User In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20120618172144.303410@gmx.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:56:41 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Dieter BSD Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:56:48 -0000 > > An old Pentium 4 3ghz can decode HD with plenty of cpu resources to > spare so unless a person using something older than that, they've > certainly got "modern" cpu power. actually even intel atom D525 is OK if decoder can be multithreaded. As for analog streams older PCI based TV cards are still useful for converting VHS tapes. realtime encoding of PAL/SECAM input is too - trivial for todays CPU. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 07:09:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D8E71065675 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:09:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from ms16-1.1blu.de (ms16-1.1blu.de [89.202.0.34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB0168FC16 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:09:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [89.204.139.247] (helo=tiny.Sisis.de) by ms16-1.1blu.de with esmtpsa (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SgsYW-0002AX-Oz; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:08:53 +0200 Received: from tiny.Sisis.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tiny.Sisis.de (8.14.5/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5J78nWg001300; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:08:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: (from guru@localhost) by tiny.Sisis.de (8.14.5/8.14.3/Submit) id q5J78leQ001299; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:08:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) X-Authentication-Warning: tiny.Sisis.de: guru set sender to guru@unixarea.de using -f Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:08:47 +0200 From: Matthias Apitz To: Warren Block Message-ID: <20120619070846.GA1283@tiny.Sisis.de> References: <4fb7dfd6.736a980a.186d.ffff902f@mx.google.com> <20120519180901.GA1264@tiny> <20120525183006.GA1259@tiny> <20120525225839.GA7347@server.rulingia.com> <20120527082745.GA2591@tinyCurrent> <20120616185822.GA1253@tiny.Sisis.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT r226986 (i386) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Con-Id: 51246 X-Con-U: 0-guru X-Originating-IP: 89.204.139.247 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , rozhuk.im@gmail.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: proper newfs options for SSD disk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Matthias Apitz List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:09:04 -0000 El día Sunday, June 17, 2012 a las 09:16:12PM -0600, Warren Block escribió: > On Sat, 16 Jun 2012, Matthias Apitz wrote: > > > OK, but I wanted to have most of the space of the 4 GB SSD encrypted > > with geli(8); so I should make there some slice containing /boot > > (unencrypted) and a second slice which later will contain my HOME and > > encrypted; wrong? > > That's correct: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=29652 Thanks for the pointers and the comments from you and Wojciech; I'm attaching below what I have planned as the exactly procedure now and would thank in advance for any comments; one remaining question is, how could I attache the geli(8) crypted file system during boot (via rc.conf) but using a passphrase which should be asked and typed in on boot? is this somehow possible? Thanks matthias $Id:$ current disk layout of EeePC: Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ada0s1a 3.7G 568M 3.1G 15% / /dev/ada1s1a 14G 8.7G 5.8G 60% /usr/local future disk layout. /dev/ada0p1 freebsd-boot /dev/ada0p2 freebsd-ufs /boot 256 Mbyte /dev/ada0p3 freebsd-ufs /private 3.5 GByte (geli encrypted) /dev/ada1p1 freebsd-boot /dev/ada1p2 freebsd-ufs / 14.0 GByte (/ /usr /var ... all in one file system and unencrypted) commands: # gpart destroy -F ada0 # gpart create -s gpt ada0 # gpart add -t freebsd-boot -s 512k ada0 # gpart bootcode -b /boot/pmbr -p /boot/gptboot -i1 ada0 # gpart add -t freebsd-ufs -b 1m -s 256m ada0 # gpart add -t freebsd-ufs ada0 # gpart destroy -F ada1 # gpart create -s gpt ada1 # gpart add -t freebsd-boot -s 512k ada1 # gpart bootcode -b /boot/pmbr -p /boot/gptboot -i1 ada1 # gpart add -t freebsd-ufs -b 1m ada1 this allows as well at the beginning to boot the system from ada1 (must be done manually from BIOS); later we will copy over /boot from ada1p2 to ada0p2 (see below); create on ada0 the future /boot and /privae file systems and on ada1 the future / root file system; and mount the last as /mnt # newfs /dev/ada0p2 # newfs /dev/ada0p3 # newfs /dev/ada1p2 # mount /dev/ada1p2 /mnt start the mouse daemon (only for cut&paste: # /etc/rc.d/moused onestart install the system (user land and kernel) from /usr/src to /mnt: # cd /usr/src # make installworld DESTDIR=/mnt # make installkernel DESTDIR=/mnt KERNCONF=GENERIC INSTALL_NODEBUG=t # make distrib-dirs DESTDIR=/mnt # make distribution DESTDIR=/mnt create the future /etc/fstab to mount / as root fs: # echo /dev/ada1p2 / ufs rw 1 1 > /mnt/etc/fstab configure some basic services in future /etc/rc.conf: # cat < /mnt/etc/rc.conf tmpmfs="YES" tmpsize="128m" wlans_ath0="wlan0" ifconfig_wlan0="WPA DHCP" ifconfig_bge0="DHCP" ifconfig_em0="DHCP" hostname=aurora.Sisis.de sshd_enable="YES" moused_enable="YES" keymap="german.iso" EOF create at least one unpriv user to be able to SSH into the new system later: # chroot /mnt /usr/sbin/adduser unmount the new / and reboot: # umount /mnt # reboot after reboot system should now come up from ada1 and we copy over the /boot to ada0p2 # mount /dev/ada0p2 /mnt # cp -Rp /boot /mnt # echo 'geom_eli_load="YES"' > /mnt/boot/loader.conf # echo 'vfs.root.mountfrom="ufs:ada1p2"' >> /mnt/boot/loader.conf # umount /mnt # reboot should now boot by itself from ada0 and mount the tootfs from ada1p2; later we will use /dev/ada0p3 for the geli(8) encrypted file system and we will mount this as /private; my $HOME should be /private/home -- Matthias Apitz e - w http://www.unixarea.de/ UNIX since V7 on PDP-11, UNIX on mainframe since ESER 1055 (IBM /370) UNIX on x86 since SVR4.2 UnixWare 2.1.2, FreeBSD since 2.2.5 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 08:44:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 191D41065670 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:44:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 515C58FC14 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:44:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5J8iCYc006106; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:44:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5J8iCba006103; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:44:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:44:12 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Matthias Apitz In-Reply-To: <20120619070846.GA1283@tiny.Sisis.de> Message-ID: References: <4fb7dfd6.736a980a.186d.ffff902f@mx.google.com> <20120519180901.GA1264@tiny> <20120525183006.GA1259@tiny> <20120525225839.GA7347@server.rulingia.com> <20120527082745.GA2591@tinyCurrent> <20120616185822.GA1253@tiny.Sisis.de> <20120619070846.GA1283@tiny.Sisis.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:44:13 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, rozhuk.im@gmail.com Subject: Re: proper newfs options for SSD disk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:44:17 -0000 > future disk layout. > > /dev/ada0p1 freebsd-boot > /dev/ada0p2 freebsd-ufs /boot 256 Mbyte > /dev/ada0p3 freebsd-ufs /private 3.5 GByte (geli encrypted) > over 200 MB wasted for /boot. what do you want to but there? except this it is all right. > /dev/ada1p1 freebsd-boot > /dev/ada1p2 freebsd-ufs / 14.0 GByte (/ /usr /var ... all > in one file system and unencrypted) > nonsense here. why partitions AT ALL? just /dev/ada1 - /, no partitions > commands: > > # gpart destroy -F ada0 > # gpart create -s gpt ada0 > # gpart add -t freebsd-boot -s 512k ada0 > # gpart bootcode -b /boot/pmbr -p /boot/gptboot -i1 ada0 > # gpart add -t freebsd-ufs -b 1m -s 256m ada0 > # gpart add -t freebsd-ufs ada0 i cannot help here as i am not really gpart user. i use bsdlabel everywhere for now. > # newfs /dev/ada0p2 > # newfs /dev/ada0p3 don't waste space, read newfs manual and add good options. on flash disks don't fear to use smallest (4KB) block size and smallest (512) fragment size. on any disk don't overallocate inodes as newfs do. You know how many files you have so i can't help you. newfs -i 16384 means over 1% locked space, on hard disks i usually use -i 65536 and it still result in most inodes unused. on small flash disks 16384 or 32768 is usually fine but YOU know how much files you store. on private system do not fear -m 0, even more on flash media where fragmentation doesn't hurt. and you definitely forgot -U option. REALLY - read out newfs manual carefully and make optimal filesystem layout every time. newfs defaults are certainly non optimal, but universal and mostly safe. > # newfs /dev/ada1p2 > # mount /dev/ada1p2 /mnt > > start the mouse daemon (only for cut&paste: > > # /etc/rc.d/moused onestart > > > # echo /dev/ada1p2 / ufs rw 1 1 > /mnt/etc/fstab rw,noatime always worth using, definitely on flash disks. the rest is quite complex for me. i would rather back up all your existing filesystem to something external, make new partitioning and restore. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 05:06:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF42B1065673; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:06:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C1D18FC15; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:06:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 88FA91B4030; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:06:20 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FE0086F.4000507@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 01:04:47 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120613 Thunderbird/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:05:42 +0000 Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:06:22 -0000 On 06/19/2012 12:39 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > - delay at rc.d scripts - there are some delays inserted. > >> The latter item is the only place where making changes to rc.d is going >> to help, and only then by parellelizing, and even then you are not >> really going to gain much since most things at boot time are serial. > > grep sleep /etc/rc.d/* usr/local/etc/rc.d/* > >> >> So while talk of how to get your favorite boot-time manager into FreeBSD >> may be entertaining, it's not likely to be productive, and almost > > it is unimportant as FreeBSD don't crash. OpenRC init scripts lack such delays. They store dependency information, which enables OpenRC to start them as soon as their dependencies are ready. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 11:20:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2790A106564A; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:20:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A817E8FC14; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:20:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so5188480ghb.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:20:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=vbVdB0O565w7KH9UV6My3wazLmMxQ2ZyYDvUohzEv/M=; b=gueUgo/LBTdTyKjKDI3JxunmHIk3XgMwtDPHB02B2/OwFeQ5dz2lTHylBfPpZLMrH+ Cr07YN/rQEBUmwy9lc3ZKDXtffRZlA+VevAwxTdvzlFMKxrAH1jkeAq8d0ZM8M/a04Iw rFHUAO80A82jB5l4TiS7zjouJoBxffUvtUvCfOk5EUhM7Bri7tCfWSLTnKnqXAetLMlZ fy9TLkP2VqbnKe8zOmOxIV3/f6QjY77Z5xO0Vr9QqgoQHZtswZwEDtgI/jGu23b+9ZBG yYavT73FT9m5c7g0gXDmuDwVPLtgwdiwelxGKIkE9VuJywWRhPstW+9HWI8RNRDPcyen schw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.3.202 with SMTP id e10mr19416689oee.52.1340104819900; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.98.77 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:20:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FE0086F.4000507@gentoo.org> References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0086F.4000507@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:20:19 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Richard Yao Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , Wojciech Puchar , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:20:21 -0000 On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Richard Yao wrote: > On 06/19/2012 12:39 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> - delay at rc.d scripts - there are some delays inserted. >> >>> The latter item is the only place where making changes to rc.d is going >>> to help, and only then by parellelizing, and even then you are not >>> really going to gain much since most things at boot time are serial. >> >> grep sleep /etc/rc.d/* usr/local/etc/rc.d/* >> >>> >>> So while talk of how to get your favorite boot-time manager into FreeBSD >>> may be entertaining, it's not likely to be productive, and almost >> >> it is unimportant as FreeBSD don't crash. > > OpenRC init scripts lack such delays. They store dependency information, > which enables OpenRC to start them as soon as their dependencies are ready. Assuming that the hacks aren't working around other issues, like routes not already being available for a certain period of time, e.g. defaultroute, etc (which doesn't work 100% of the time, e.g. static gateways and mounting NFS shares). This is something that launchd, systemd, upstart, etc handle (because they either have more knowledge of the system or it's been coded into the files that execute the jobs/services), or alternatively the services need to fail more gracefully (this is more difficult -- but not impossible -- to code). Even OpenRC in gentoo doesn't handle this, unless things have changed dramatically since I used Gentoo ~2 years ago... Thanks! -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 11:55:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10584106566B for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:55:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 877EE8FC0C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:55:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so2209473eek.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:54:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=d7Z7ZXf/zpeq7j+rZNKCm5P5v8A7BQCBjokZ6h52uBE=; b=SMj+74n+wZIJ6fPo2f8Ml0O3sAt+LFeWiIcjiMWgbWHD6E5ol2/sLwKAKrqg9ZTp35 lX8rqQ9EAxsCmNVjY6uNwtQ2m33tYTqnjACe6QWD3LVDLoP3gFkbPWZqwphUxNUvSHnd ZaQcykD2r7x6x1yEz0JDmZT7jQ//1/jZ9KA8IMcWmeN+6PBXpaEkx+v+uEn6MTIvMNG3 I5p5wEIEQfO5FQnJklJLprpLn+6Y+q7eofM3G4lWe6OCOSjsyDk/lrVc+MyQBqDBTHzH dRcsEPInDV9rwER9OE92jzdY8xlIv+AgauuKg2LuMWerUdAYotOYCBhvc4z/JTrtAO3i 1nqQ== Received: by 10.14.100.144 with SMTP id z16mr4223282eef.50.1340106899428; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:54:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com (87-194-105-247.bethere.co.uk. [87.194.105.247]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c42sm75009175eeb.2.2012.06.19.04.54.57 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:54:55 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120619125455.7f19d484@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <4FE0086F.4000507@gentoo.org> References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0086F.4000507@gentoo.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:55:01 -0000 On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 01:04:47 -0400 Richard Yao wrote: > On 06/19/2012 12:39 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > - delay at rc.d scripts - there are some delays inserted. > > > >> The latter item is the only place where making changes to rc.d is > >> going to help, and only then by parellelizing, and even then you > >> are not really going to gain much since most things at boot time > >> are serial. > > > > grep sleep /etc/rc.d/* usr/local/etc/rc.d/* > > > >> > >> So while talk of how to get your favorite boot-time manager into > >> FreeBSD may be entertaining, it's not likely to be productive, and > >> almost > > > > it is unimportant as FreeBSD don't crash. > > OpenRC init scripts lack such delays. They store dependency > information, which enables OpenRC to start them as soon as their > dependencies are ready. That's not the reason for the sleeps. FreeBSD sorts the scripts into dependency order and runs them sequentially, so there's no reason to sleep waiting for a dependency script to complete. The sleeps exist for a variety of reasons. Just looking at the grep can be a bit misleading. Not all of the scripts are going to be used, the sleep is not always relevant to startup, in some case it's in a code path that's not typically taken. One thing that I think could be easily improved is that the polling delays could be changed from 1 second to 0.1 seconds. If there's a reason for rc scipts needing to be portable, there could be a polling delay function with a "fast polling" option in defaults/rc.conf. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 13:15:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3521106574D for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:15:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D3C68FC20 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:15:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5JDFANe050094; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:15:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5JDFAfi050091; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:15:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:15:10 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Matthias Apitz In-Reply-To: <20120619070846.GA1283@tiny.Sisis.de> Message-ID: References: <4fb7dfd6.736a980a.186d.ffff902f@mx.google.com> <20120519180901.GA1264@tiny> <20120525183006.GA1259@tiny> <20120525225839.GA7347@server.rulingia.com> <20120527082745.GA2591@tinyCurrent> <20120616185822.GA1253@tiny.Sisis.de> <20120619070846.GA1283@tiny.Sisis.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-902635197-251258654-1340111710=:50062" X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Cc: Wojciech Puchar , rozhuk.im@gmail.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: proper newfs options for SSD disk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:15:17 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---902635197-251258654-1340111710=:50062 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Tue, 19 Jun 2012, Matthias Apitz wrote: > El día Sunday, June 17, 2012 a las 09:16:12PM -0600, Warren Block escribió: > >> On Sat, 16 Jun 2012, Matthias Apitz wrote: >> >>> OK, but I wanted to have most of the space of the 4 GB SSD encrypted >>> with geli(8); so I should make there some slice containing /boot >>> (unencrypted) and a second slice which later will contain my HOME and >>> encrypted; wrong? >> >> That's correct: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=29652 > > Thanks for the pointers and the comments from you and Wojciech; > I'm attaching below what I have planned as the exactly procedure now and > would thank in advance for any comments; > > one remaining question is, how could I attache the geli(8) crypted file > system during boot (via rc.conf) but using a passphrase which should be > asked and typed in on boot? is this somehow possible? When set up like that link, it does ask for the passphrase on startup. ---902635197-251258654-1340111710=:50062-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 13:19:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAE71106566C; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:19:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0C7B8FC16; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:19:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6CE621B401A; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:19:37 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FE07C0C.3030207@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:18:04 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120613 Thunderbird/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garrett Cooper References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0086F.4000507@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:29:09 +0000 Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , Wojciech Puchar , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:19:39 -0000 On 06/19/2012 07:20 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Richard Yao wrote: >> On 06/19/2012 12:39 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> - delay at rc.d scripts - there are some delays inserted. >>> >>>> The latter item is the only place where making changes to rc.d is going >>>> to help, and only then by parellelizing, and even then you are not >>>> really going to gain much since most things at boot time are serial. >>> >>> grep sleep /etc/rc.d/* usr/local/etc/rc.d/* >>> >>>> >>>> So while talk of how to get your favorite boot-time manager into FreeBSD >>>> may be entertaining, it's not likely to be productive, and almost >>> >>> it is unimportant as FreeBSD don't crash. >> >> OpenRC init scripts lack such delays. They store dependency information, >> which enables OpenRC to start them as soon as their dependencies are ready. > > Assuming that the hacks aren't working around other issues, like > routes not already being available for a certain period of time, e.g. > defaultroute, etc (which doesn't work 100% of the time, e.g. static > gateways and mounting NFS shares). > This is something that launchd, systemd, upstart, etc handle > (because they either have more knowledge of the system or it's been > coded into the files that execute the jobs/services), or alternatively > the services need to fail more gracefully (this is more difficult -- > but not impossible -- to code). Even OpenRC in gentoo doesn't handle > this, unless things have changed dramatically since I used Gentoo ~2 > years ago... > Thanks! > -Garrett It works for me. I suggest you try Gentoo FreeBSD in a jail: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_FreeBSD#Howto_run_G.2FFBSD_in_vanilla_FreeBSD.27s_jail From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 15:33:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3D11065676; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:33:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from user.vdr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FEA28FC1B; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:33:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so5659989yen.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:33:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=JUo1BtGMHnSNvTguLNgSDHEH2zCf2ODC2pXrepDg/xk=; b=TvVhMJMEqnzz4SeWUo3mbm1XUAMdDhEzfkiFBNq41VJVbJe3ts7nWx8ANHsaxqojcO svYD8ph2eGuxImbE926pygFetabXZseBsTQ7h57L0OzR3Sabgj99r+2aoDRc3n7f9RaP vw36ovcJbc+TfB5Gpwds2/RrakJvlI0CrvE3xVRWqXZe/MLEdwNEZI10O9DFHwM+f+Uz RR+CX+yTSmBTd4wCrOO25r5FFa4rQa3bIBNs82pur9Z7l4GXZYH874qyFgpNz/nhB+Ih gICXFh4iz9xGiVq3O3FLWtaK1BuT3qdaoVP3j9xQx8an0iINUSQpaqs7D0geV+LoB+5z mdXg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.189.138 with SMTP id de10mr8132565icb.38.1340120011390; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.189.201 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:33:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120618172144.303410@gmx.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:33:31 -0700 Message-ID: From: VDR User To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:52:43 +0000 Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Dieter BSD Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:33:37 -0000 On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 11:56 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> >> An old Pentium 4 3ghz can decode HD with plenty of cpu resources to >> spare so unless a person using something older than that, they've >> certainly got "modern" cpu power. > > actually even intel atom D525 is OK if decoder can be multithreaded. I have a few Atom systems but they all use vdpau for decoding and I never bothered to see how just the Atom holds up on it's own for decoding. :) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 16:48:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 055C0106566C; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:48:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E3C214D8D4; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:48:23 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FE0AD56.8050604@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:48:22 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120604 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:48:24 -0000 On 6/18/2012 9:39 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> The latter item is the only place where making changes to rc.d is going >> to help, and only then by parellelizing, and even then you are not >> really going to gain much since most things at boot time are serial. > > grep sleep /etc/rc.d/* usr/local/etc/rc.d/* Sleeps in /etc tend to be there for good reasons, and new ones are vigorously scrutinized. If you see any that you think are dubious, feel free to mention them on freebsd-rc@. In the ports' scripts we tend to be more forgiving, but I've worked with several maintainers to apply more effective solutions where there is a good reason to wait for a dependent service to actually be running. This also brings up a good point, any new rc-alike solution we consider must have support for scripts in ports that is at least as robust as what we have now. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 16:50:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED7EA1065675; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:50:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36EE91553AD; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:50:22 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:50:21 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120604 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Yao References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:50:38 -0000 On 6/18/2012 4:05 PM, Richard Yao wrote: > Doug, we already have OpenRC implemented. You can install Gentoo FreeBSD > in a jail, install regular FreeBSD in another jail and do your own > performance comparisons. Bzzzzzzzzt! Thanks for playing. :) You're the one proposing the change, YOU get to do the performance comparisons. If you want a rough idea of what I personally would consider to be a robust test, don't hesitate to ask. I'm sure others would have ideas as well. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 17:51:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF76106564A; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:51:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A726A8FC14; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:51:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5JHp29K008238; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:51:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5JHp2Nj008235; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:51:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:51:02 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: VDR User In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20120618172144.303410@gmx.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:51:03 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Dieter BSD Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:51:12 -0000 > > I have a few Atom systems but they all use vdpau for decoding and I > never bothered to see how just the Atom holds up on it's own for > decoding. :) didn't have 1920x1080 video but 1366x768 MPEG4 plays smooth From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 17:52:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9F60106564A; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:52:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 008B08FC1F; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:52:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5JHppvq008244; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:51:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5JHpp9G008241; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:51:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:51:51 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Doug Barton In-Reply-To: <4FE0AD56.8050604@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0AD56.8050604@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:51:53 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:52:10 -0000 >> grep sleep /etc/rc.d/* usr/local/etc/rc.d/* > > Sleeps in /etc tend to be there for good reasons, and new ones are > vigorously scrutinized. If you see any that you think are dubious, feel > free to mention them on freebsd-rc@. I don't say they are not needed but that they exist. anyway i don't understand sleep 1 after setting default route. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 18:03:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 697BD106566C; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:03:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B5058FC08; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:03:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so700758obc.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:03:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=T9Gvh1pkeo9TQalbLJkuagTdnK3+v6jj7DdmVIIhJMM=; b=qZUuv+YrTbMPzdljnRIUuYWsoCP0NuEfvpoc/iTPjRgxidV2Ol6bFfZWxTyS6Q+lli 2i5won0RH/lSVKOxajtYCkaWMcpMt1zy3sAwMVn3dAcgmEnfqi673Qqfs0zC4At370zL WiAEDE1fiBMAN9Dal8q+D4GvXxeDD3E4t3WqWTHi/YFcNhqb5uKFLi877/kpxdOKYnwJ RAorokebGnSIWREl1xvERdIHh8i2n4qmBVN/zohfl9pGBIxD7wiQwNanrqGDc8BoDnGc CDdjvbVBXHsvN2EjOoYMgBevKAUKznylVY8MshylDLlR0PtlhOZVwg2gjN2wCK+eOVoR heoQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.117.71 with SMTP id kc7mr18942426obb.62.1340129011439; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:03:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.98.77 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:03:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0AD56.8050604@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:03:31 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:03:32 -0000 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> grep sleep /etc/rc.d/* usr/local/etc/rc.d/* >> >> Sleeps in /etc tend to be there for good reasons, and new ones are >> vigorously scrutinized. If you see any that you think are dubious, feel >> free to mention them on freebsd-rc@. > > I don't say they are not needed but that they exist. > anyway i don't understand sleep 1 after setting default route. Probably working around annoying races in the driver / network / routing stack. Please see my previous reply. Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 18:18:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2591F106566B; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:18:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759CD8FC15; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:18:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5JIIkrm034303; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:18:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5JIIkFQ034296; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:18:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:18:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Garrett Cooper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0AD56.8050604@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:18:47 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:18:51 -0000 sorry i was wrong /etc/rc.d/defaultroute use sleep to wait for dhclient only. On Tue, 19 Jun 2012, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Wojciech Puchar > wrote: >>>> grep sleep /etc/rc.d/* usr/local/etc/rc.d/* >>> >>> Sleeps in /etc tend to be there for good reasons, and new ones are >>> vigorously scrutinized. If you see any that you think are dubious, feel >>> free to mention them on freebsd-rc@. >> >> I don't say they are not needed but that they exist. >> anyway i don't understand sleep 1 after setting default route. > > Probably working around annoying races in the driver / network / > routing stack. Please see my previous reply. > Thanks, > -Garrett > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 18:14:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D58106578E; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:14:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6041E8FC16; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:14:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0B1791B4030; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:14:23 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:12:51 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120613 Thunderbird/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:47:52 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:14:33 -0000 On 06/19/2012 12:50 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > On 6/18/2012 4:05 PM, Richard Yao wrote: >> Doug, we already have OpenRC implemented. You can install Gentoo FreeBSD >> in a jail, install regular FreeBSD in another jail and do your own >> performance comparisons. > > Bzzzzzzzzt! Thanks for playing. :) You're the one proposing the change, > YOU get to do the performance comparisons. If you want a rough idea of > what I personally would consider to be a robust test, don't hesitate to > ask. I'm sure others would have ideas as well. > > Doug > Would you elaborate on what you consider to be a robust test? I really have no idea. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 20:12:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 611381065678; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:12:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03F108FC16; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:12:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so879958obc.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:12:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=L0BerlRVZy5xaQekDZm7D0iRB7UmHurpfrx2S5gsm6Y=; b=plUUD8BXxpgeHWWMv4Sr/+WWiKk7PWQxrd7BBbKzImNLSoxpOgOoqtgCwOOMzcMxfN PCf2TmlLgJzpweD6IF+7rZFo53iy5Okzq2MESt15VpEm/B0ja5LhVDQ8DfczeP82S1Fp 3PDxfjjUhlgyNOn4sKXaQpyyuzfzHDioIn5nz1BlqNRspoPGJSM8r+nAOCcZ5BD2wHrF 6eAWzfzkCP5XGxkgLM9sCKMQUD3V2q29di81jjddizZ4zlap/Nk9qAqA+wvBsfLfMILL wnmPQOYNBmvXQ7JNJAvZpZeo5GwCuHRU8dWmYk+6xNnOzsbmv+ZkNUjhx+pvjt2lPsL0 XwoQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.117.71 with SMTP id kc7mr19340951obb.62.1340136774359; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.98.77 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:12:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:12:54 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Richard Yao Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:12:55 -0000 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Richard Yao wrote: > On 06/19/2012 12:50 PM, Doug Barton wrote: >> On 6/18/2012 4:05 PM, Richard Yao wrote: >>> Doug, we already have OpenRC implemented. You can install Gentoo FreeBS= D >>> in a jail, install regular FreeBSD in another jail and do your own >>> performance comparisons. >> >> Bzzzzzzzzt! Thanks for playing. :) =A0You're the one proposing the chang= e, >> YOU get to do the performance comparisons. If you want a rough idea of >> what I personally would consider to be a robust test, don't hesitate to >> ask. I'm sure others would have ideas as well. > > Would you elaborate on what you consider to be a robust test? I really > have no idea. It might be an ok smoke test, but it's hardly a realistic test/comparison as the pseudo startup for a jail and a real system aren't close to being the same (this is in part because of how jails function). Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 22:06:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F9C5106566C; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:06:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17E588FC14; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:06:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9B4511B4021; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:06:08 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:04:35 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120613 Thunderbird/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garrett Cooper References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:17:21 +0000 Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:06:10 -0000 On 06/19/2012 04:12 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Richard Yao wrote: >> On 06/19/2012 12:50 PM, Doug Barton wrote: >>> On 6/18/2012 4:05 PM, Richard Yao wrote: >>>> Doug, we already have OpenRC implemented. You can install Gentoo FreeBSD >>>> in a jail, install regular FreeBSD in another jail and do your own >>>> performance comparisons. >>> >>> Bzzzzzzzzt! Thanks for playing. :) You're the one proposing the change, >>> YOU get to do the performance comparisons. If you want a rough idea of >>> what I personally would consider to be a robust test, don't hesitate to >>> ask. I'm sure others would have ideas as well. >> >> Would you elaborate on what you consider to be a robust test? I really >> have no idea. > > It might be an ok smoke test, but it's hardly a realistic > test/comparison as the pseudo startup for a jail and a real system > aren't close to being the same (this is in part because of how jails > function). > Thanks, > -Garrett Would you elaborate on what you consider to be acceptable? Honestly, I am not certain if you will appreciate any tests unless you do them yourself. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 22:17:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857441065672; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:17:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1065E8FC19; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:17:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so5967772ghb.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:17:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZVP6BLzbGPrS+c8i/WwZ/Rcvp34fZeUgqEhz1Ytzm+4=; b=gkTLw1fmrVpFq0m8qcz2H7uEvTJDZfsNMHXdlMX4Bm8tKPzk755dsEhgFUrQZwyQWg 731bvkSKKOSeN+TM5cCC2N9yspqKhzeLFriEBy+AX/KMv9CIVWlX2ziA606tyQUmm7Qb M54ePqo8Toi05OT0vdQ4JTHyym8uXPLHUPR1w8iNGlplScIiM7MwkFcisS74tlRgETCW RCYWXkiSd9Bf/lmhBGi2ALhgSHMNF+y4b1qRCOlmAlDajoxOgRcuPRCqdR2n3UnrrCd+ 4cHs6PgkLiU2eYg20hl9Iq4fUj9JfcZN3ozcBGb7x+WgRCA/3+gQquHapnDHc4v/3Acf WpgQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.172.209 with SMTP id be17mr3832830oec.16.1340144265101; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.98.77 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:17:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:17:45 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Richard Yao Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:17:46 -0000 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Richard Yao wrote: > On 06/19/2012 04:12 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Richard Yao wrote: >>> On 06/19/2012 12:50 PM, Doug Barton wrote: >>>> On 6/18/2012 4:05 PM, Richard Yao wrote: >>>>> Doug, we already have OpenRC implemented. You can install Gentoo Free= BSD >>>>> in a jail, install regular FreeBSD in another jail and do your own >>>>> performance comparisons. >>>> >>>> Bzzzzzzzzt! Thanks for playing. :) =A0You're the one proposing the cha= nge, >>>> YOU get to do the performance comparisons. If you want a rough idea of >>>> what I personally would consider to be a robust test, don't hesitate t= o >>>> ask. I'm sure others would have ideas as well. >>> >>> Would you elaborate on what you consider to be a robust test? I really >>> have no idea. >> >> =A0 =A0 It might be an ok smoke test, but it's hardly a realistic >> test/comparison as the pseudo startup for a jail and a real system >> aren't close to being the same (this is in part because of how jails >> function). > > Would you elaborate on what you consider to be acceptable? Honestly, I > am not certain if you will appreciate any tests unless you do them yourse= lf. Change /etc/rc to use OpenRC in the base system. -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 22:46:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3020106564A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:46:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@funtoo.org) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F9F8FC0C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:46:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so4675655qcs.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:46:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=6/9fol+QVkwhWZ3qbj00W3VKqjPwgFJPzxiUGwW3wpE=; b=BBbvGTpGxYF8nOVBjsRXHvBlLofCXj0NQm5fbnNpNQnHEiQ7SwNR3E/l/l5DEs2OQG buJdbP275b6U1xnUWgyja2dSSOYV7BjBFcU4sDDlMMxFg9DTfo1+boFDZl07uRWdmYLY yzbSFJGUqinNAMXdp29no99CV7A3r6NMfYsbOlD1JDIYLdjGfA1M7r5X1ocn9KyB6myY Mxia03mw/PurdUQjbo5YWpWQUUdQE/9+85OePtjngirQBn8hNNuzTGDyMPDaFY5DwtRD ziCDN9C6fd5OiI3oiUL4B5mUag7N3Cih0oXk53hX585gza9j+X0bcjEogAS1KRvMOXx+ H2NA== Received: by 10.229.105.100 with SMTP id s36mr1055258qco.88.1340146006849; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net. [108.46.203.161]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j12sm31325713qak.15.2012.06.19.15.46.45 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:45:13 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120613 Thunderbird/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garrett Cooper References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlQ5/7tcG2SYxU45BoKzdNs1Tc56CE5KuJVMUNPHpqDv5D2YldR62jx/KU4hG3fLFyKGOk2 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:54:20 +0000 Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:46:47 -0000 On 06/19/2012 06:17 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Richard Yao wrote: >> On 06/19/2012 04:12 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Richard Yao wrote: >>>> On 06/19/2012 12:50 PM, Doug Barton wrote: >>>>> On 6/18/2012 4:05 PM, Richard Yao wrote: >>>>>> Doug, we already have OpenRC implemented. You can install Gentoo FreeBSD >>>>>> in a jail, install regular FreeBSD in another jail and do your own >>>>>> performance comparisons. >>>>> >>>>> Bzzzzzzzzt! Thanks for playing. :) You're the one proposing the change, >>>>> YOU get to do the performance comparisons. If you want a rough idea of >>>>> what I personally would consider to be a robust test, don't hesitate to >>>>> ask. I'm sure others would have ideas as well. >>>> >>>> Would you elaborate on what you consider to be a robust test? I really >>>> have no idea. >>> >>> It might be an ok smoke test, but it's hardly a realistic >>> test/comparison as the pseudo startup for a jail and a real system >>> aren't close to being the same (this is in part because of how jails >>> function). >> >> Would you elaborate on what you consider to be acceptable? Honestly, I >> am not certain if you will appreciate any tests unless you do them yourself. > > Change /etc/rc to use OpenRC in the base system. > -Garrett That is already done in Gentoo FreeBSD, or do you want me to do the work for you to integrate OpenRC in the base system? I already have OpenRC in Gentoo FreeBSD. Taking the time to integrate OpenRC into FreeBSD would be an inefficient use of my time. Not only would I fail to gain any improvements on my systems, but I would divert development time from things that do benefit me. People can use Gentoo FreeBSD in jails (or on physical hardware) to do comparisons. If they like it, Gentoo's developers are willing to help, but you cannot expect us to do your work for you. That would be like asking the Clang developers to replace your system compiler or the Illumos developers to replace your file system. FreeBSD's developers need to be the ones to import OpenRC into FreeBSD's base system, not us. We will just fix problems you encounter and collaborate on improvements. That is what every other upstream does. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 22:57:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC41106566B; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:57:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DC928FC15; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:57:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so1104197obc.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:57:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=gEKNenHvgPG4oE8fj4rzLsYnn967LKIpyG0n/ExcXsg=; b=pc5Iy6uTCswUH507Vuys2ljOZUSmKzkc0vqhGLnAh7it+OLUT76sAzoB+BJrvLdjHA T5cpNQ3ZzE3QozcDDMF5H4A6vXmPGUDdO/tz2CATa8vUO69cEnl4x7p+IHb8u65e/MOx MOkK2tgxyEoWFWzT/N5nP+lscFqKA3/gDmjYYWjB9V61KW7+Z98pQemKTOfLy5B9R4kX R5oDv4C3Cjx5fXg9CDZSN6w6HbW8lhuhGBvk2WH6QkLGJatO6u4JNe6nNHU5u/l8jtdT NDtoPJLcI/++Lx04eEkPzeqAo36KIZBOOqEXacQS3whNxiqgG4ULwe4K/QlIWFvSJ6K2 hJfw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.2.3 with SMTP id 3mr21756541oeq.29.1340146663473; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.98.77 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:57:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:57:43 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Richard Yao Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:57:49 -0000 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Richard Yao wrote: > On 06/19/2012 06:17 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Richard Yao wrote: >>> On 06/19/2012 04:12 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>>> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Richard Yao wrote: >>>>> On 06/19/2012 12:50 PM, Doug Barton wrote: >>>>>> On 6/18/2012 4:05 PM, Richard Yao wrote: >>>>>>> Doug, we already have OpenRC implemented. You can install Gentoo Fr= eeBSD >>>>>>> in a jail, install regular FreeBSD in another jail and do your own >>>>>>> performance comparisons. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bzzzzzzzzt! Thanks for playing. :) =A0You're the one proposing the c= hange, >>>>>> YOU get to do the performance comparisons. If you want a rough idea = of >>>>>> what I personally would consider to be a robust test, don't hesitate= to >>>>>> ask. I'm sure others would have ideas as well. >>>>> >>>>> Would you elaborate on what you consider to be a robust test? I reall= y >>>>> have no idea. >>>> >>>> =A0 =A0 It might be an ok smoke test, but it's hardly a realistic >>>> test/comparison as the pseudo startup for a jail and a real system >>>> aren't close to being the same (this is in part because of how jails >>>> function). >>> >>> Would you elaborate on what you consider to be acceptable? Honestly, I >>> am not certain if you will appreciate any tests unless you do them your= self. >> >> Change /etc/rc to use OpenRC in the base system. >> -Garrett > > That is already done in Gentoo FreeBSD, or do you want me to do the work > for you to integrate OpenRC in the base system? > > I already have OpenRC in Gentoo FreeBSD. Taking the time to integrate > OpenRC into FreeBSD would be an inefficient use of my time. Not only > would I fail to gain any improvements on my systems, but I would divert > development time from things that do benefit me. > > People can use Gentoo FreeBSD in jails (or on physical hardware) to do > comparisons. If they like it, Gentoo's developers are willing to help, > but you cannot expect us to do your work for you. That would be like > asking the Clang developers to replace your system compiler or the > Illumos developers to replace your file system. > > FreeBSD's developers need to be the ones to import OpenRC into FreeBSD's > base system, not us. We will just fix problems you encounter and > collaborate on improvements. That is what every other upstream does. No. I'm saying that this is what would need to be done to qualify it and it would need to be run with the base system and a series of rc scripts in ports. In order for things to ultimately be committed, things would need to be regression tested enough that FreeBSD developers would be confident with the end-result. And yes, there would need to be a conversion plan, documentation update, and the full nine yards for whatever's done with an rc replacement, as this would impact a lot of folks and projects. Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 23:15:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29BC7106564A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:15:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A77BC8FC0A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:15:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so6805508wgb.31 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:15:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=StNae1GCQHwqe4w+57pM4NoD64kt18NXwmLIAsNJREI=; b=hgDswL13DGzK4K0zrwBO+ijiVz5sLvoCVtxHSpdu61WI82ubFfE2nx5JIgwtHeKEzu LpRWsBSd5nloZmW3865U1tBHFMHuglGyINA6KVpge4YDCBZgDaVndcHWgY6PRPPn5WuK 8KBpaeyiu2GR+F6NYiS0Lfea7PxD8+dluc2vzt//iKY5QTprz3uo3E1G5b2erEEzwFEz tb0Av7CTu3oJ8ke2HDzAtOQWqIoYgHb4GZTzA4XNN6Hv8FrFsRrLyXvdVsRiM53idUm9 P+hT5+GEwhAnqokklefpXenc6ZTGLdFTk5LC4lmOwG8IoYnz9VzN9sRsi+ggUQcoXCEr maMw== Received: by 10.180.80.35 with SMTP id o3mr7025856wix.7.1340147751837; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com (87-194-105-247.bethere.co.uk. [87.194.105.247]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dg2sm65445049wib.4.2012.06.19.16.15.50 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:15:49 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620001549.60c1166d@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0AD56.8050604@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:15:55 -0000 On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:03:31 -0700 Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Wojciech Puchar > wrote: > >>> grep sleep /etc/rc.d/* usr/local/etc/rc.d/* > >> > >> Sleeps in /etc tend to be there for good reasons, and new ones are > >> vigorously scrutinized. If you see any that you think are dubious, > >> feel free to mention them on freebsd-rc@. > > > > I don't say they are not needed but that they exist. > > anyway i don't understand sleep 1 after setting default route. > > Probably working around annoying races in the driver / network / > routing stack. Please see my previous reply. There are a few sleeps where some action is performed and and then a fixed sleep is done, but this is one of the ones where the sleep is in a while loop - a full second seems a bit long. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 23:43:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D27D61065672 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:43:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gad@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp5.server.rpi.edu (smtp5.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.225]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 918438FC12 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:43:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gilead.netel.rpi.edu (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.124.121]) by smtp5.server.rpi.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5JNhkSH025166; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:43:46 -0400 Message-ID: <4FE10EB2.5050009@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:43:46 -0400 From: Garance A Drosehn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100722 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthias Apitz References: <20120609143521.GA3940@tinyCurrent> <79C2B8B9-9A7E-4793-AE03-FE387BB1694B@kientzle.com> <20120610130758.74a8b65b@desktop.pc> <20120611072402.GL5592@e-new.0x20.net> <20120611123409.GA1950@tiny> In-Reply-To: <20120611123409.GA1950@tiny> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0) X-RPI-SA-Score: 1.50 (*) [Hold at 8.00] COMBINED_FROM,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD X-CanItPRO-Stream: outgoing X-Canit-Stats-ID: 50416137 - c48fcc559c19 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 128.113.2.225 Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cleaning /usr/obj before copying it to USB key X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:43:53 -0000 On 6/11/12 8:34 AM, Matthias Apitz wrote: > Thanks for the hints concerning find(1) usage. I was wondering if there > is nothing like > > # make install-clean > or > # make remove-tempfiles > > Thanks > > matthias > I missed the beginning of this thread, but if you're talking about doing a 'make buildworld' and 'make installworld', then note that there is also a target for /usr/src called 'make cleanworld'. This will clean up the files from 'make buildworld', but would not clean up files in /usr/obj which were created by other things (such as ports, for instance). The subject says "before copying to USB key". Another thing you could do is build up an 'rsync' command with the appropriate set of options such that /usr/obj is not copied to your USB key. I don't know if that option makes sense for what you are trying to do. Another thing you could do is to set the environment variable MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX before you do buildworld and installworld, so that those are not using /usr/obj at all. This is a little trickier to do right, and you'll regret it if you do not set the variable in all the situations that you want to. But it might be another option for you. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 05:33:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7442010657BD; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:33:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from ms16-1.1blu.de (ms16-1.1blu.de [89.202.0.34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B838FC0A; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:33:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [88.217.83.130] (helo=localhost.my.domain) by ms16-1.1blu.de with esmtpsa (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ShDXe-0005Te-7Z; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:33:22 +0200 Received: from localhost.my.domain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.my.domain (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5K5XKsb002519; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:33:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: (from guru@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.14.4/8.14.3/Submit) id q5K5XKcO002518; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:33:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: guru set sender to guru@unixarea.de using -f Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:33:20 +0200 From: Matthias Apitz To: Garance A Drosehn Message-ID: <20120620053320.GB2443@tinyCurrent> References: <20120609143521.GA3940@tinyCurrent> <79C2B8B9-9A7E-4793-AE03-FE387BB1694B@kientzle.com> <20120610130758.74a8b65b@desktop.pc> <20120611072402.GL5592@e-new.0x20.net> <20120611123409.GA1950@tiny> <4FE10EB2.5050009@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4FE10EB2.5050009@FreeBSD.org> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 9.0-CURRENT r214444 (i386) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Con-Id: 51246 X-Con-U: 0-guru X-Originating-IP: 88.217.83.130 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cleaning /usr/obj before copying it to USB key X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Matthias Apitz List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:33:24 -0000 El día Tuesday, June 19, 2012 a las 07:43:46PM -0400, Garance A Drosehn escribió: > On 6/11/12 8:34 AM, Matthias Apitz wrote: > > Thanks for the hints concerning find(1) usage. I was wondering if there > > is nothing like > > > > # make install-clean > > or > > # make remove-tempfiles > > > > Thanks > > > > matthias > > > I missed the beginning of this thread, but if you're talking about doing yes :-) > a 'make buildworld' and 'make installworld', then note that there is also > a target for /usr/src called 'make cleanworld'. This will clean up the > files from 'make buildworld', but would not clean up files in /usr/obj > which were created by other things (such as ports, for instance). I was looking for a way to remove all temp. files in /usr/obj, but after this it must still be possible to do 'make installworld' and 'make installkernel'; just to reduce the amount of files to copy over to the USB key; matthias -- Matthias Apitz t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.unixarea.de/ UNIX since V7 on PDP-11 | UNIX on mainframe since ESER 1055 (IBM /370) UNIX on x86 since SVR4.2 UnixWare 2.1.2 | FreeBSD since 2.2.5 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 06:14:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4961106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:14:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2649C8FC15 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:14:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5K6E9C4071413 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:14:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5K6E9Kp071410 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:14:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:14:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:14:09 +0200 (CEST) Subject: MAGIC with HP KVM - someone will help? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:14:10 -0000 i am not sure if it is related at all to FreeBSD, but maybe someone here know the solution. Anyway it is somewhat FreeBSD related for sure as you will see from description. I bought used IP 16 port KVM connected to few servers, in between them FreeBSD 8 server running on Dell PowerEdge T110. As this KVM have PS/2 connectors to keyboard and mouse i added USB to dual-PS/2 converter. So: 1)when KVM is used locally with plugged monitor, keyboard and mouse everything is fine. 2)when it is used remotely before FreeBSD is booted or after successful multiuser boot everything is fine. 3)when kernel boots and waits for GELI password, and i SLOOOWLY type it (at most one keypress per second) over remote KVM connection - everything is fine. 4)when i type the password faster keyboard locks. you have to turn off server and on again to recover. Please don't laught from 3 and 4 as it is true, tested several times. The problem happens ONLY at FreeBSD but before mounting root, when geli ask for password. And it is serious as ability to enter geli password is the main reason for this KVM to be installed! And really not forgetting to type password very slowly isn't easy. Any idea what it is and how to fix it. It really looks like magic. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 07:35:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB4FD106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:35:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from subbsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B51A28FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:35:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so632887obb.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:35:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ZQISYDQ+fr7xSRYicWyiGUuYamrkOJObxuMcCtXhY3g=; b=mNs5Af9TEpmGHnHvWIWo4pjP4KkViMdytSr+9MNHTc4XPMKSt/LjU0CXcpWVk85OsY OZ4mqQIzAeTmrT+YgZ3+EY7fpVy3ucrN+ycgbTuQgjc/5brUmNre86+VSZHtB8usv1BY qxS/CUsXnlroQQLE4PZ3ca6xoshmq1w7VzLPV9n43bWqZ+vmYlSA6OuLkUkbD//jJQLl mywUbiT0C1WnnKsNU/swd5/U4fnufg4Ah6L41X/QMe8FvHZmVQe/Xr4gU9HIXAbvdtcL sqs6T2/1bUkjqnMPZkvK7hyZ2TU/cjRSMgEacEORxedU9kTLMRhGO18Urmhd892cMEdE Fz9Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.1.130 with SMTP id 2mr22447734oem.7.1340177723165; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.8.163 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:35:23 +0400 Message-ID: From: Subbsd To: freebsd-hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Are there any plans to increase the username length? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:35:24 -0000 Hi Looks like FreeBSD one of the few modern OS which have the maximum length of username less than 255. Windows: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc783323.aspx (255) Linux: getconf LOGIN_NAME_MAX = 256 MacOSX: getconf LOGIN_NAME_MAX = 255 FreeBSD: getconf LOGIN_NAME_MAX = 17 Any plan to catch up with other OSes? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 08:08:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE3C106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:08:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from varuna@eudaemonicsystems.net) Received: from lnx6.securehostdns.com (174.36.194.176-static.reverse.softlayer.com [174.36.194.176]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8F5B8FC16 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:08:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [117.216.172.94] (port=42679 helo=shastry.eudaemonicsystems.net) by lnx6.securehostdns.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1ShFxy-0006rb-3i; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:38:42 +0530 Message-ID: <4FE1853C.2090002@eudaemonicsystems.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:39:32 +0530 From: Varuna Organization: Eudaemonic Systems User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20100716) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ian Lepore References: <4FDB25E0.2070705@eudaemonicsystems.net> <4FDB3BAA.6090906@fluffy.khv.ru> <4FDB71B9.9070804@eudaemonicsystems.net> <1339784344.73426.40.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> In-Reply-To: <1339784344.73426.40.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - lnx6.securehostdns.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - eudaemonicsystems.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/resolv.conf getting over written with dhcp X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:08:43 -0000 Ian Lepore wrote: > > Using the 'prepend' or 'supercede' keywords in /etc/dhclient.conf is > pretty much the standard way of handling a mix of static and dhcp > interfaces where the static config needs to take precedence. I'm not > sure why you dismiss it as essentially good, but somehow not good > enough. It's been working for me for years. > > -- Ian > The issue that I had indicated that the issue with the /etc/resolv.conf is being caused by an error in /sbin/dhclient-script; hence, I am definitely not looking at solving the issue either with /etc/dhclient.conf or /etc/dhclient-exit-hooks configuration file. BTW, resolver(5) / resolv.conf(5) does not mention the usage of /etc/dhclient-exit-hooks file to protect the earlier contents of /etc/resolv.conf file. Will put this issue in the freebsd-doc mailing list. With regards, Varuna Eudaemonic Systems Simple, Specific & Insightful IT Consultants, Continued Education & Systems Distribution +91-88-92-47-62-63 http://www.eudaemonicsystems.net http://enquiry.eudaemonicsystems.net ------------------------------------------------------------------ This email is confidential, and may be legally privileged. 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From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 08:22:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03ACC106568C; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:22:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBEA88FC1F; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:22:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so326277pbb.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:22:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=+ZaSZkwNV3+8w2XxH5fzwfpGsDOvfi/hsoMZCn8FDFE=; b=e3C4bYfzKW0vEE1ePqn0qhezKAsOZnb1VPqUTzKO3CNuhj8uj92E0QOpsb6lKdh/z6 /m2J1rglGSpvNeXeaN0X9Xb59ZOVE+3Toh139P0Y/BKJ2JTSeyXxZlO/G6l4z1JkxfU6 wu5cO7COiCPcu3GY3LBUvyuEXXcGuS5IbM0GubW+8mOk8sJxYvPeHp54g6hItWP1+dE9 JRtTmm5+ipEybCNNc718vFVkIVnFXH/lF3yGH1CzxuKJisMvWC8vwGYuUyRLCR4exJir +P+57lIZarQXyNriF21c3ZEoxBgeKstwbQoS5qdsB175FsqUD7YTTVMEP3Ioveo4Ckft EmFA== Received: by 10.68.193.195 with SMTP id hq3mr72742518pbc.30.1340180530210; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fuji-wireless.local (c-24-19-191-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net. [24.19.191.56]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id rg9sm7678246pbc.67.2012.06.20.01.22.09 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Garrett Cooper In-Reply-To: <4FE17F98.6030206@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:22:08 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <43F3944B-0400-4ACB-BCC2-7306CBF4CB72@gmail.com> References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <4FE17F98.6030206@FreeBSD.org> To: Doug Barton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: Mark Linimon , hackers@FreeBSD.org, Richard Yao Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:22:11 -0000 On Jun 20, 2012, at 12:45 AM, Doug Barton wrote: > I was working on a reply along similar lines, but instead I'll say = that > i agree 100% with what Mark said, and thanks to him for saving me a = lot > of time. :) >=20 > Richard, with all that said if you still are interested in specs for a > test program, I'm still willing to help with that. Just let me know. I agree with both Mark and Doug. For the record, my point wasn't to discourage anyone from proposing = ideas or to do good work. If the change is beneficial and helps make = folks' lives easier, I'm sure at least one person will welcome the = change with open arms in FreeBSD proper. Thanks, -Garrett= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 08:59:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77054106564A; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:59:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from atte.peltomaki@iki.fi) Received: from kameli.org (kameli.org [83.150.86.93]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ABB38FC0A; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:59:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by kameli.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id F35F911F81E; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:59:38 +0300 (EEST) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:59:38 +0300 From: Atte =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peltom=E4ki?= To: Doug Barton Message-ID: <20120620085938.GL96212@ass.kameli.org> References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:59:46 -0000 On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 03:53:26PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > It's unfortunate that this thread evolved into a discussion about > replacing rc.d, since that's almost certainly not relevant to the > original topic of improving the overall boot time. Improving boot times can be done in two ways: 1) Implement proper service dependency handling framework 2) Implement ad-hoc service dependencies Second choice is obviously not kosher for all things BSD. *if* the first choice can be implemented into existing rc with reasonable amount of work and non-intrusively, it could be a viable approach. Otherwise it would make more sense to go ahead and implement a real improvement over existing system. In my view, this is a similar issue to what UFS2 had; rather breathe some life into old system without taking much risks and have ZFS take over later as a real improvement. In any case, improving boot times is the very least significant benefit from implementing service dependencies, especially for an OS such as FreeBSD which isn't meant to be rebooted except during OS upgrade. -- Atte Peltomäki atte.peltomaki@iki.fi <> http://kameli.org "Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 09:27:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7185310656A8; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:27:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fernando.apesteguia@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 754B08FC0A; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:27:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so460617lbo.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:27:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=un+PDWJwXZeFMdzTbWEopgnTr5my+NRFzt4FxjiP/Jg=; b=XDEkZ0V/h6Q2vmP1t09gTe4GiKhhBDVARYShcsOzhn3M/zSdkZEFMlwCYa45oYLny9 VNmWeacH+yQFHd6QXF2EMec+W20JFNilz+XEh9si2Tdogg77EXIDarUyxpkI6/vOxMzm xFpUTTo5p7kmOptP5hYTdlvIekz/G4huzigBwJbDHSkWDpkfmE6/lJHB4bVn6SOouUbY S+D/52k6CNeFv2Prxwc+Z9P1pi6ikfNW0s1oVQTCBPZJhYAeasnNXFr1ym8Cf2MQtDHg 5HRLjJ0/XZ52Eg75m7SQzjckq9j0cXfV3zB+mLjA+rutSTma0Qwx4gA51+HONgBpKa1Q w8XQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.105.51 with SMTP id gj19mr21595813lab.38.1340184429319; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.24.131 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:27:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120620085938.GL96212@ass.kameli.org> References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <20120620085938.GL96212@ass.kameli.org> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:27:09 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=EDa?= To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:27:11 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Atte Peltom=E4ki = wrote: > On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 03:53:26PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: >> It's unfortunate that this thread evolved into a discussion about >> replacing rc.d, since that's almost certainly not relevant to the >> original topic of improving the overall boot time. > > Improving boot times can be done in two ways: > > 1) Implement proper service dependency handling framework > 2) Implement ad-hoc service dependencies > > Second choice is obviously not kosher for all things BSD. > > *if* the first choice can be implemented into existing rc with > reasonable amount of work and non-intrusively, it could be a viable > approach. > > Otherwise it would make more sense to go ahead and implement a real > improvement over existing system. In my view, this is a similar issue to > what UFS2 had; rather breathe some life into old system without taking > much risks and have ZFS take over later as a real improvement. > > In any case, improving boot times is the very least significant benefit > from implementing service dependencies, especially for an OS such as > FreeBSD which isn't meant to be rebooted except during OS upgrade. Sorry, but as it's been said in this list, there are several use patterns for FreeBSD. I use it in both a laptop and a PC and I boot them every time I want to use them. Believe it or not I don't like let them consuming energy and making noise during night, specially the laptop :) So please, let's assume FreeBSD has to be (re)booted from time to time and not only for OS upgrades or when it crashes. Also, in embedded systems, boot time is an important factor. > > -- > Atte Peltom=E4ki > =A0 =A0 atte.peltomaki@iki.fi <> http://kameli.org > "Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 09:36:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257081065672; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:36:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FB528FC18; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:36:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5K9aqf0023590; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:36:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5K9apQW023587; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:36:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:36:51 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= In-Reply-To: <20120620085938.GL96212@ass.kameli.org> Message-ID: References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <20120620085938.GL96212@ass.kameli.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:36:52 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:36:55 -0000 > Improving boot times can be done in two ways: > > 1) Implement proper service dependency handling framework > 2) Implement ad-hoc service dependencies ZERO) Speed up kernel startup With custom kernel containing only needed devices it is still a bit long. rc.d/* things take trivial amount of time compared to kernel! Anyway -1) don't care in most cases. FreeBSD is rarely rebooted. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 09:49:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B79FD1065672; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:49:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from claudiu.vasadi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74CEC8FC14; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:49:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so435180pbb.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:49:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=hHeK504EfwMIRgRJ0sb5yXyrjxpO+xWzPlJR9uBleIQ=; b=rOH6uNQorUGfrgQeXiX9O3eELWqCSqwueHYUinSCCfeDEv01+2DmI0wfeumxOgzplI deM9RckRCwSq/gnw0tCUtTKs1oGJDV0OgkwJUW4mzJmqI2eyqObXt52zG1WzJQR502T5 hUQks1dCvnAy+LwqY+9/zzKnMbq/agK5piFGJMnfMd56Oi93TSw725hSJ9lq72Oht41w FPp4KWEp/wurCxCgJuX+hzCmzfDqYsP9SIMsJo8knA3i83bF9LByOHB3kJkydgfUX4yL kdSKR2d4iD75SI68l+yRZ3VXE8W1p6aHOg07rDhEueLTYY2jKODm9T4pLZhGnqkQXQ1/ dXFw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.220.39 with SMTP id pt7mr75407231pbc.40.1340185745847; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.50.74 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:49:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <20120620085938.GL96212@ass.kameli.org> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:49:05 +0200 Message-ID: From: claudiu vasadi To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:49:06 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Wojciech Puchar < wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote: > Improving boot times can be done in two ways: >> >> 1) Implement proper service dependency handling framework >> 2) Implement ad-hoc service dependencies >> > > ZERO) Speed up kernel startup > > With custom kernel containing only needed devices it is still a bit long. > > rc.d/* things take trivial amount of time compared to kernel! > > > Anyway > > -1) don't care in most cases. FreeBSD is rarely rebooted. While you may not care, please bear in mind that there are users who do care. Personally I think that the kernel boot time is the killer here and the work should go there and second on the rc system. PS: nothing wrong in having an OS that boots faster, performs better is more stable than others :). This is something I would like to see as an improvement. Wouldn't you ? -- Best regards, Claudiu Vasadi From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 10:00:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C981065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:00:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEC618FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:00:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so7488135bkv.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:00:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer; bh=q2/ABg0mJgkHMYg/6biI4E/2Qot+qqZQHlQIQRZJ19o=; b=N37NsvdJdDtpE7FsxvCBp7DVRU1Z0CL7xpB4KgoMqh+mjcfu62zHhOYDMcFg9Iol2S 9sO0qcB1U5sRAPjwUUnLBJCGy19BR2H9FuiPt6bTvMHHZBEOTuUF40oPgpLxSA6dVfgk 61TjVlgGj1o9dX8KKLhZDeIo1Vv0RHH09YZgtp17tvyW9zoRfdZldxTJR3+YrMkyBrC7 n+YS85KBA522Q2I/xufQ8IvF8M88eGxDa0+HB7O57JTPqMxZvVSdj0trk6iDzZ57yQc1 m5IlDBtTjHTlA5M0pshvEsJR5wj+h6Tygvie5IbGNsi4LGcgF/TbGzJjeyOMqh8IWjKx 9bFw== Received: by 10.204.157.6 with SMTP id z6mr7495494bkw.15.1340186413939; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gm18sm26902511bkc.7.2012.06.20.02.59.58 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120620.100005.305.1@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:00:05 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: run_interrupt_driven_hooks: ... xpt_config" delay X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:00:15 -0000 So, I have this problem, through all versions, from 8.* to 9.0=0D=0AIt = happens when I build a custom kernel, which has ONLY 'device' lines, of = machine's hardware.=0D=0AFrom 3 machines with that type of cutom kernels, = only 1 suffers from this (and problem is gone, as soon as I revert to = GENERIC)=0D=0A=0D=0AThis delays boot procedure (which IS successfull, at = the end) for at least twice:=0D=0A"run_interrupt_driven_hooks: still = waiting after 60 seconds for xpt_config"=0D=0A=0D=0AFACT 1 - GENERIC has = something, which doesn't cause a problem! (reverting to it, resolves an = issue)=0D=0A=0D=0AI've found this:=0D=0A = http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3D136327=0D=0A=0D=0ABut my = custom kernels already don't have 'device spb' as well as GENERIC, so I = doubt this is the cause.=0D=0AI've even done vice versa, added 'device = spb' line to custom kernel, to no effect.=0D=0ASo I doubt, above pr is = relevant to me, but FACT 1.=0D=0A=0D=0AWhich config line, GENERIC has = that remedies my issue?=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ADomagoj Smol=E8i=E6 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 10:03:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D7BF1065672; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:03:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2F848FC18; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:03:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KA36J0023758; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:03:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KA365V023755; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:03:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:03:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: claudiu vasadi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <20120620085938.GL96212@ass.kameli.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:03:07 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:03:18 -0000 > > Personally I think that the kernel boot time is the killer here and the work should go there and second on the rc system. exactly what i wrote. rc.d subsystem is quick, and anyway in special cases just delete in and write all needed startup in /etc/rc i assume it is embedded system - in which boot time is very important. > PS: nothing wrong in having an OS that boots faster, performs better is more stable than others :). This is something I would like > to see as an improvement. Wouldn't you ? of course i do! Do you have USB in that system? Compile whole USB as module. put kldload statement in /etc/rc that way (example): /sbin/kldload /boot/kernel/uhci.ko & USB takes long in kernel, but now it will go in background while the rest initializes. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 07:39:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F8621065743; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:39:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03F398FC0C; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:39:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 701395620B; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:39:20 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:39:20 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: Richard Yao Message-ID: <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:49:18 +0000 Cc: Doug Barton , Garrett Cooper , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, Atte =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:39:21 -0000 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 06:45:13PM -0400, Richard Yao wrote: > That is already done in Gentoo FreeBSD, or do you want me to do the > work for you to integrate OpenRC in the base system? We want you to do the work to prove that it is an improvement. Otherwise it's "just another claim." You seem to be missing a couple of principles here, the most important of which is "first, do no harm." FreeBSD has as one of its underlying principles not to violate POLA (Principle Of Least Astonishment.) The corollary is that we don't replace code unless we're convinced (not just told) that the replacement is a better solution. If this makes FreeBSD more conservative than the way other OSes do things, so be it. I'm not trying to be harsh here. What I'm saying is that the burden of proof is on the person making the claims "it's better" to demonstrate that it's so. Otherwise, there are a zillion PRs with patches already in the database for committers to pick up and work on. > I already have OpenRC in Gentoo FreeBSD. Taking the time to integrate > OpenRC into FreeBSD would be an inefficient use of my time. Not only > would I fail to gain any improvements on my systems, but I would divert > development time from things that do benefit me. Then I expect the situation to remain unchanged. fwiw, from previous discussions on FreeBSD boot time, ISTR that there are other places where more time is spent. Some analysis to prove that indeed the rc subsystem is the dominant term would be a good starting place. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 07:45:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2016C106564A; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:45:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EEEC150815; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:45:28 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FE17F98.6030206@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:45:28 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Linimon References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:49:40 +0000 Cc: Garrett Cooper , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Richard Yao , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:45:29 -0000 I was working on a reply along similar lines, but instead I'll say that i agree 100% with what Mark said, and thanks to him for saving me a lot of time. :) Richard, with all that said if you still are interested in specs for a test program, I'm still willing to help with that. Just let me know. Doug On 06/20/2012 12:39 AM, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 06:45:13PM -0400, Richard Yao wrote: >> That is already done in Gentoo FreeBSD, or do you want me to do the >> work for you to integrate OpenRC in the base system? > > We want you to do the work to prove that it is an improvement. Otherwise > it's "just another claim." > > You seem to be missing a couple of principles here, the most important > of which is "first, do no harm." FreeBSD has as one of its underlying > principles not to violate POLA (Principle Of Least Astonishment.) The > corollary is that we don't replace code unless we're convinced (not just > told) that the replacement is a better solution. > > If this makes FreeBSD more conservative than the way other OSes do > things, so be it. > > I'm not trying to be harsh here. What I'm saying is that the burden > of proof is on the person making the claims "it's better" to demonstrate > that it's so. > > Otherwise, there are a zillion PRs with patches already in the database > for committers to pick up and work on. > >> I already have OpenRC in Gentoo FreeBSD. Taking the time to integrate >> OpenRC into FreeBSD would be an inefficient use of my time. Not only >> would I fail to gain any improvements on my systems, but I would divert >> development time from things that do benefit me. > > Then I expect the situation to remain unchanged. > > fwiw, from previous discussions on FreeBSD boot time, ISTR that there > are other places where more time is spent. Some analysis to prove that > indeed the rc subsystem is the dominant term would be a good starting > place. > > mcl > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 10:14:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F3551065675; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:14:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from c.kworr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 467D88FC22; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:14:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so7505627bkv.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:14:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+93YOgJJZH15gN8Wap8qHET184fPsHUqO+0NR7yeV2k=; b=ws/FZucuxsijQMe8ol1Qnh0kcFav5W35taG1I9r9pG7XBM2U4s86DSHengKWeWZ9jA Hg5dGYkfRB8jwlHVcA6THzZWgpejT7FWNCbTuk9TSnGMcAB5xnOdfKFGOs1cric9xOLa g/GWc243VzdMZ8+YArgAcN6penQ3RNIeTpgl/gCPmKWX3wcnttZXAN5DYOC5l2/vysxL yPlLUL7axYNu8r39qodzd+qy/eONwvkilh4RiqxnJV7wiQjXZj7HZO4+cWFfSnmCtzux 4d4zSefW8SwTWeXSNwFsWIYc4Nt00dUslpveWM484JzoGCEHGx2ZDevHfTnbZgQOXoRb UY2w== Received: by 10.205.134.6 with SMTP id ia6mr9966764bkc.51.1340187241227; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from green.tandem.local (utwig.xim.bz. [91.216.237.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gm18sm26971879bkc.7.2012.06.20.03.13.58 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE1A265.1030107@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:13:57 +0300 From: Volodymyr Kostyrko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120605 Firefox/12.0 SeaMonkey/2.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <20120620085938.GL96212@ass.kameli.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:50:33 +0000 Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , claudiu vasadi , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:14:03 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> Personally I think that the kernel boot time is the killer here and >> the work should go there and second on the rc system. > exactly what i wrote. rc.d subsystem is quick, and anyway in special > cases just delete in and write all needed startup in /etc/rc > > i assume it is embedded system - in which boot time is very important. > >> PS: nothing wrong in having an OS that boots faster, performs better >> is more stable than others :). This is something I would like >> to see as an improvement. Wouldn't you ? > of course i do! > > Do you have USB in that system? The problem is deeper, I'm using minimalized kernel without USB and greatest hang is 3 or so seconds after "Timecounters tick every 1.000 msec" just before ada0 appears. And I have already tried modularized ada - results are the same. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 10:20:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 089C11065688; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:20:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F30A8FC1C; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:20:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KAK3sw023857; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:20:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KAK3a0023854; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:20:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:20:03 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Volodymyr Kostyrko In-Reply-To: <4FE1A265.1030107@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <20120620085938.GL96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FE1A265.1030107@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:20:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:50:50 +0000 Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , claudiu vasadi , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:20:06 -0000 > > The problem is deeper, I'm using minimalized kernel without USB and greatest > hang is 3 or so seconds after "Timecounters tick every 1.000 msec" just > before ada0 appears. > > And I have already tried modularized ada - results are the same. Did you tried to add printk within freebsd kernel now and then to find out where exactly that wait happen? On my laptop no such delay near that place happens. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 13:18:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98331065676 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:18:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vmagerya@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53A9B8FC12 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:18:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eabm6 with SMTP id m6so2811815eab.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:18:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rALuY0+yWi8LbnVPV73MUiMTboU6XfmqCkFz4dZ4brQ=; b=MWEdLUiXhK9cdzcfaM2CqTWaNc6GLgDvaaBJNYIFjPZngLghdeZ8SN1FDfIHYvHWSH 5XGHaXknc4HW+7NNj0cNj6D81CotrIkrF+2G61RKhTG8ixjPeXgaWXI8F+uqwl+foE7g 2bikYKQVe34x73YWioTdiS2rPEeVKhN71mqeyTgpxF2jlPX4kirchNgOzemSFVp7ef8u zIcTeGlzCC8UHOGyNoBmEdo5u/aduMNEdGGc1wy00AVjxjKjjN056Fw8QTPsbL6IFvx5 aJSEWjBfzRQJY4JdnuMA9PSUSyDH3dukhOqdqcoiEijcbg5V9STgfbiQxVN3Mdvu5+gk kFbQ== Received: by 10.14.28.202 with SMTP id g50mr5169816eea.167.1340198330474; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.29.1.142] (altimet-gw.cs2.dp.wnet.ua. [217.20.178.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q53sm90508216eef.8.2012.06.20.06.18.48 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE1CD80.2060108@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:17:52 +0300 From: Vitaly Magerya User-Agent: Thunderbird MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Linimon References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:18:52 -0000 Mark Linimon wrote: > fwiw, from previous discussions on FreeBSD boot time, ISTR that there > are other places where more time is spent. Some analysis to prove that > indeed the rc subsystem is the dominant term would be a good starting > place. While I don't want to proliferate this thread or advocate any kind of change, I want to address the sentiment that time spent in rc during boot is small or insignificant relative to the kernel time. The last time concurrent rc patches where proposed I measured boot time on my laptop (running 8.2-RELEASE i386 IIRC): out of 45 seconds from power on to login prompt, 20-25 where spent in rc, and parallel execution of it shaved off 7 seconds from boot time. I'm also seeing similar breakdown on VirtualBox: rc subsystem consistently takes about 40-50% of boot time. This is on a system with a static IP and where only sshd is started (even sendmail is disabled). From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 13:23:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 580101065673 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:23:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 171F78FC1F for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:23:50 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=WKpEB12kIpDOyAnA+SbCyseCDwWRevsIg9u3Ajh3uhI=; b=aJ3o9IbUoRQKwqDbTHx3mLMG8QUcfmdULbKEPS0sMNFd6Gm+7YM8SCgEGXW8jhFm5L8wQIdGFoQB3D6ioyTTKKTXzB4dT6teGNPJhvZ/v29emlNl/WXn5mX0OANqLJFx; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ShKss-00002Q-AC for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:23:49 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340198620-94480-94479/5/14; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:23:40 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <20120620085938.GL96212@ass.kameli.org> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:23:40 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:23:50 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:27:09 -0500, Fernando Apestegu=C3=ADa =20 wrote: > Also, in embedded systems, boot time is an important factor. If you're designing a very specific embedded product based on FreeBSD = why =20 aren't you writing your own startup system? Why would anyone expect a =20 general purpose "out of the box" OS to excel in a highly optimized =20 embedded environment? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 13:28:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9B51065673 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:28:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A4818FC17 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:28:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 814621B4001 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:28:22 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FE1CF99.1070108@gentoo.org> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:26:49 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120613 Thunderbird/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:28:23 -0000 On 06/20/2012 03:39 AM, Mark Linimon wrote: > fwiw, from previous discussions on FreeBSD boot time, ISTR that there > are other places where more time is spent. Some analysis to prove that > indeed the rc subsystem is the dominant term would be a good starting > place. I neither claimed that it was dominant nor should that be a prerequisite for improvements to be made. The start time of FreeBSD jails in particular would benefit most from RC improvements. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 14:20:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698BF106567B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:20:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA68C8FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:20:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KEKdPB082516; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:20:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KEKdPw082495; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:20:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:20:39 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Vitaly Magerya In-Reply-To: <4FE1CD80.2060108@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <4FE1CD80.2060108@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:20:39 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Mark Linimon , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:20:43 -0000 > The last time concurrent rc patches where proposed I measured boot time > on my laptop (running 8.2-RELEASE i386 IIRC): out of 45 seconds from > power on to login prompt, 20-25 where spent in rc, and parallel > execution of it shaved off 7 seconds from boot time. > > I'm also seeing similar breakdown on VirtualBox: rc subsystem > consistently takes about 40-50% of boot time. This is on a system with a > static IP and where only sshd is started (even sendmail is disabled). strange but with static IP it takes maybe 3 seconds without any modifications. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 14:22:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C22110656DC for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:22:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BC228FC1D for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:22:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KEM78A088014; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:22:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KEM7Fj088011; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:22:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:22:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Felder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <20120620085938.GL96212@ass.kameli.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:22:08 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:22:17 -0000 > >> Also, in embedded systems, boot time is an important factor. > > If you're designing a very specific embedded product based on FreeBSD why > aren't you writing your own startup system? Why would anyone expect a general what i not only already proposed, but did myself doing my own FreeBSD set for X11 terminal that had to fit in 128MB flash (or use NFS, but flash is there already :) and as fast as possible run Xorg -query i removed most of /etc, and put everything in /etc/rc. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 15:28:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B87C11065674 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:28:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F10108FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:28:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KFSkfJ001866; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:28:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KFSj7T001863; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:28:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:28:45 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Daniel Robbins In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:28:46 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:28:51 -0000 > Hi all, I wanted to jump in here. My name is Daniel Robbins and I'm > the creator of Gentoo Linux and the original designer of the Gentoo > initscripts, which now exist in rewritten form as OpenRC. FreeBSD > inspired many of the concepts in Gentoo Linux. > > I see a great potential for collaboration here between Gentoo, Funtoo > (my current project, a derivative/fork of Gentoo), FreeBSD and OpenRC > (which is now an independently-managed project, distinct from the > upstream distros) stripped list of CC recipient - got too large. > There has been some suggestion of a boot-time shoot-out, and it makes > perfect sense to me that the OpenRC team would need to demonstrate the > benefits of OpenRC first, before FreeBSD devs devote time to looking > at OpenRC. Whatever benefits are, and for sure they are think of this: 1) can it be compatible with 20000 ports already made for FreeBSD, where many of them install rc.d scripts in CURRENT format. 2) is the problem 1 worth of slight improvement over already good, but certainly not perfect rc.d subsystem. If someone would like to make new ports subsystem from scratch then it would be great. Would you like to ? ;) Certainly it will be great, as ports are certainly a mess, but it's "quite" a hell amount of work! lets assume someone working of port subsystem would prepare 3 well done ports per day average, then you need 20 people working for it for a year at least... when i would have million dollars handy call me and find these 20 people ;) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 13:46:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B8F106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:46:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CDC08FC16 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:46:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 125EC5620B; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:46:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:46:51 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: Vitaly Magerya Message-ID: <20120620134650.GA2801@lonesome.com> References: <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <4FE1CD80.2060108@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FE1CD80.2060108@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:38:12 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:46:51 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 04:17:52PM +0300, Vitaly Magerya wrote: > The last time concurrent rc patches where proposed I measured boot time > on my laptop (running 8.2-RELEASE i386 IIRC): out of 45 seconds from > power on to login prompt, 20-25 where spent in rc, and parallel > execution of it shaved off 7 seconds from boot time. OK, I stand corrected. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 14:19:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B87BD106566C; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:19:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 167038FC12; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:19:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KEJMIT078345; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:19:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KEJMeW078290; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:19:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:19:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Linimon In-Reply-To: <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> Message-ID: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:19:23 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:49:21 +0000 Cc: Doug Barton , Garrett Cooper , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Richard Yao , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:19:31 -0000 >> That is already done in Gentoo FreeBSD, or do you want me to do the >> work for you to integrate OpenRC in the base system? > > We want you to do the work to prove that it is an improvement. Otherwise > it's "just another claim." rc subsystem is fine. Changing it would be another mess. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 15:05:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189F21065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:05:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drobbins@funtoo.org) Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com (mail-wi0-f178.google.com [209.85.212.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8866A8FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:05:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhn6 with SMTP id hn6so3492731wib.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:05:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=yuuVOLO0rvMUPhkLdhky9qpNlspPdF0ze3cWBBG5n/I=; b=AYXTmgojY4gXbr6wKau/Q4KO4ahptRpvzBAbwv1plvHWMOl/U6flZJXdxkal1XEnX+ X16bTjrCi6h8+p+br96deOnRe9b0CNM8y0GFRiGb0tgajYqQ/CQXWC78GHHDV8PYe9zI XABcqj5F+eCfxvSA2oHI1qqS2RF/qQwMMdhtflJ+/voj9MgFErKCMfdQW9vMGkuW4+ws TXzrJPxxDhEtE+Tc6Mu5hDfrYZerYNiJ33KKP9rtjUb1N6tOrryCVZOMn4gBEfwgW2xj Qxn2NgSFIUYRbP7MNrvKO13Vq5MagEOtVRHn1u6GJ5vDZBVmohsQIgXwY4cxA13PsUvr qBqg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.80.37 with SMTP id o5mr12772590wix.12.1340204705476; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.104.1 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:05:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:05:05 -0600 Message-ID: From: Daniel Robbins To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQny6QpGBiUYsDVJb1G5iKZ+RkpYTlg8bkY+Ee4FmX9fDQREjfjEC94+r1EYL0+pboQF3W6B X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:49:39 +0000 Cc: Doug Barton , Garrett Cooper , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Richard Yao , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , Mark Linimon , openrc@gentoo.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Atte_Peltom=C3=A4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:05:13 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 8:19 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> That is already done in Gentoo FreeBSD, or do you want me to do the >>> work for you to integrate OpenRC in the base system? >> >> We want you to do the work to prove that it is an improvement. =C2=A0Oth= erwise >> it's "just another claim." > > rc subsystem is fine. Changing it would be another mess. Hi all, I wanted to jump in here. My name is Daniel Robbins and I'm the creator of Gentoo Linux and the original designer of the Gentoo initscripts, which now exist in rewritten form as OpenRC. FreeBSD inspired many of the concepts in Gentoo Linux. I see a great potential for collaboration here between Gentoo, Funtoo (my current project, a derivative/fork of Gentoo), FreeBSD and OpenRC (which is now an independently-managed project, distinct from the upstream distros) There has been some suggestion of a boot-time shoot-out, and it makes perfect sense to me that the OpenRC team would need to demonstrate the benefits of OpenRC first, before FreeBSD devs devote time to looking at OpenRC. But if boot time isn't a huge priority, then maybe it is the wrong place to focus. I think the big benefit of OpenRC to FreeBSD is that we are looking to continually improve it and include you in the requirements-gathering process for future development efforts. This means that we are able and willing to incorporate functionality that has been on your wish-list for some time, alleviating the burden of you having to do this work. Gentoo and Funtoo would also be able to benefit from any improvements that are made to OpenRC, so it is likely that you would see support from other OpenRC-using distros. So in this spirit, I would be interested in shifting the conversation to an effort to gather a list of semi-formal functional and non-functional requirements for a future FreeBSD initscript system. This would give the OpenRC team insight into what features would make OpenRC desireable to you and a serious candidate for inclusion in FreeBSD at some point in the future. Solaris SMF has already been mentioned. I would like to get a better understanding of your needs in this area. In 1999, Gentoo 0.99 was originally using supervise to ensure service availability (but was removed due to licensing quirks,) and we never quite got around to adding this functionality back in, so I would be interested in having similar functionality integrated into OpenRC as well. If there are any other things you would like to see in a future FreeBSD initscript system, please let us know. Note that I contribute to OpenRC but do not run the project. But I have a personal attachment to the system since it was originally my baby :) And of course I am willing to help where I can. Best Regards, Daniel Robbins From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 15:51:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA3251065674 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:51:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7EEF8FC12 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:51:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KFpBh0001989; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:51:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KFpBMh001986; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:51:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:51:10 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Daniel Robbins In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:51:11 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:51:15 -0000 > So let me know if you have any ideas for anything that would be > considered more than just a slight improvement, that would make you go > "OK, now it's seriously worth considering OpenRC as this is more than > just a nominal improvement in functionality." actually i am happy with current system, but maybe others. My most important ideas are: - any new system should not be more complex - ability to keep all flags and main config in single file (/etc/rc.conf) must persist. I don't want mess. And for sure not only me. - once again - the less files, the better. Some time ago i had to use linux (fortunately no longer needed). As i don't use it normally i just took debian installer that i remembered it WAS usable. After seeing the incredible complexity of /etc structure, not just rc scripts, i deleted most of it and put startup sequence in single file. It was plain horror. >> If someone would like to make new ports subsystem from scratch then it would >> be great. Would you like to ? ;) > > I know you are joking, but in all seriousness, this is another area of yes i am. but that joke is clear suggestion that we have already tens of thousands better or worse made ports! > it's a good idea to stay in touch :) if you have idea how to improve existing rc.d AND make ports working as is then go on. Anyway i don't see rc.d subsystem to be such a big deal that great improvement are possible at all. For me it is OK. For a cases when i need really quick start or so - i just deleted it and put everything in /etc/rc From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 15:43:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 724871065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:43:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drobbins@funtoo.org) Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com (mail-wi0-f178.google.com [209.85.212.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC8018FC12 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:43:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhn6 with SMTP id hn6so3522796wib.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:43:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=N2WXb0OPw+R8kVA0VtLfIYXKScbnFYb1ejYcVqr00R4=; b=ov6c0AvCjBRtezCbV8L2bQaIUOK41WTHWmnRjMKMF7QKAM0gjH73BHaLueq9UDm/CL qb/+O8BFqHgqey9YXnS+POvMcu6hcMxG++1EId3O9kKAAJa3yP5N/wCQIKw4QaZ/19zh CMPRfiC6eOKmZ0jtgL7bGryXzQIPIXF5A84f+1wrbF2Nma0rjyZbQ7pQqaOi2Hk+uPf4 wm0yRcgLyOve44V7ELTQ/vOGPTSlHTb4y3GaJbs+zcfmyqmE5jJmPoz380VmgOTh8OWt wOsfG+GP2b1gC2Qfg5j6vNPSI0dcjRhTK2B6qALvi7a+3ZJBtLVil2Hs+4+Fz96Uv4xX eQQg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.80.37 with SMTP id o5mr13011781wix.12.1340207025090; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.104.1 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:43:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:43:45 -0600 Message-ID: From: Daniel Robbins To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn0nFi5fbdKD+XtWVkZO6ISkg3gPcYJ6dkMxVW/0lpvEY1hnzP9f7rOwSXP1zXmiBD1TEcd X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:11:06 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:43:46 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > Whatever benefits are, and for sure they are think of this: > > 1) can it be compatible with 20000 ports already made for FreeBSD, where > many of them install rc.d scripts in CURRENT format. OK. This will clearly be needed, and shouldn't take too much time to investigate. > 2) is the problem 1 worth of slight improvement over already good, but > certainly not perfect rc.d subsystem. Yes, clearly OpenRC will need to offer significant improvements to make it worthwhile to justify migrating over to it. So let me know if you have any ideas for anything that would be considered more than just a slight improvement, that would make you go "OK, now it's seriously worth considering OpenRC as this is more than just a nominal improvement in functionality." > If someone would like to make new ports subsystem from scratch then it would > be great. Would you like to ? ;) I know you are joking, but in all seriousness, this is another area of potential collaboration, because at some point I will be looking to significantly improve Portage. And Gentoo and Funtoo have the same challenging of upgrading ports systems -- there's so much stuff that already uses our *existing* ports system that needs to be moved over. There are creative solutions to this problem that I have found. So it's a good idea to stay in touch :) > when i would have million dollars handy call me and find these 20 people ;) I have some ideas that should make it possible to transition ports systems with less effort than this. But this isn't related to the current thread :) Best Regards, Daniel From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 16:32:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A03E8106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:32:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from seanbru@yahoo-inc.com) Received: from mrout1-b.corp.bf1.yahoo.com (mrout1-b.corp.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.253.104]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C628FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:32:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (rideseveral.corp.yahoo.com [10.73.160.231]) by mrout1-b.corp.bf1.yahoo.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/y.out) with ESMTP id q5KGWH61023772; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:32:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=yahoo-inc.com; s=cobra; t=1340209938; bh=C5Xs8ovYTUanL+I2rD6tFi7PBbUenvDxWISXD97nCKo=; h=Subject:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type: Date:Message-ID:Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=UB98L5mdw/EosC4c/6Sg8Hfn5P0JGEfX0hxOOPVYv1J+/bHDsS3zgJlBb+dg6AcMR 5QTvYox+vsXjDVltzvvrUrqLg1Bx5SgHXilu+DBkM+/IUrAK32IC7D/2tyt0Th2KCO UnAjC7MVisR/nfYlcsaQkuewXQKq6QUewsC+7uC8= From: Sean Bruno To: "rank1seeker@gmail.com" In-Reply-To: <20120620.100005.305.1@DOMY-PC> References: <20120620.100005.305.1@DOMY-PC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:32:16 -0700 Message-ID: <1340209936.2858.6.camel@powernoodle.corp.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Milter-Version: master.31+4-gbc07cd5+ X-CLX-ID: 209937004 Cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: run_interrupt_driven_hooks: ... xpt_config" delay X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sbruno@freebsd.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:32:56 -0000 On Wed, 2012-06-20 at 03:00 -0700, rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote: > >From 3 machines with that type of cutom kernels, only 1 suffers from > this (and problem is gone, as soon as I revert to GENERIC) Please post your "custom kernel config" somewhere so we can see what is different. Sean From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 16:38:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 382671065678 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:38:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerrymc@jerrymc.net) Received: from jerrymc.net (jerrymc.net [75.75.214.34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E591C8FC24 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:38:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jerrymc.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jerrymc.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KG9sTH099310; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:09:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jerrymc@jerrymc.net) Received: (from jerrymc@localhost) by jerrymc.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5KG9sY5099309; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:09:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jerrymc) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:09:54 -0400 From: Jerry McAllister To: Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <20120620160954.GA99243@jerrymc.net> References: <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: Daniel Robbins , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:38:23 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 05:51:10PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >So let me know if you have any ideas for anything that would be > >considered more than just a slight improvement, that would make you go > >"OK, now it's seriously worth considering OpenRC as this is more than > >just a nominal improvement in functionality." > > actually i am happy with current system, but maybe others. > > My most important ideas are: > > - any new system should not be more complex Just to point out what may seem to only be a symantic issue, but can be significant. There is a difference between being complex and being complicated. Complex refers to the ability to handle a good variety of needs in a diverse environment. Complexity can mean adding the ability to work with current and know requirements as well as new - even yet to be discover - needs and circumstances. Complicated can mean making things require more steps or locations and/or exceptions and levels of abstraction to do the tasks than would be imposed in a well designed system. A well designed process handles a very complex set of needs without adding unnecessary complications. So, if Mr Puchar, in his comment, changes complex for complicated, then I think we can all agree with the wish that it does not add complication. But, a sophisticated complexity might be needed to handle all of the complications and diversity in the process. ////jerry > - ability to keep all flags and main config in single file (/etc/rc.conf) > must persist. I don't want mess. And for sure not only me. > > - once again - the less files, the better. > > Some time ago i had to use linux (fortunately no longer needed). As i > don't use it normally i just took debian installer that i remembered it > WAS usable. > > After seeing the incredible complexity of /etc structure, not just rc > scripts, i deleted most of it and put startup sequence in single file. > > It was plain horror. > > >>If someone would like to make new ports subsystem from scratch then it > >>would > >>be great. Would you like to ? ;) > > > >I know you are joking, but in all seriousness, this is another area of > > yes i am. but that joke is clear suggestion that we have already tens of > thousands better or worse made ports! > > >it's a good idea to stay in touch :) > > if you have idea how to improve existing rc.d AND make ports working as is > then go on. > > Anyway i don't see rc.d subsystem to be such a big deal that great > improvement are possible at all. > > For me it is OK. > > For a cases when i need really quick start or so - i just deleted it and > put everything in /etc/rc > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 16:48:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E740C1065686 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:48:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fernando.apesteguia@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 617708FC16 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:48:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so1119706lbo.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:48:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=N4/qP0DiuhWRlZwOzzP82LaN2n6TgSeta4W6uIE84wM=; b=dxbHr947GEPVDqr7ZRIC1BiqCxZRSYS7/lBCxSVmSpvRXguG7w9AzreQYpaWr0zLD/ zT1QWYjfcrcqcMRbrXYRFSeWynzbV95vqQqUE5PGZ/7pKqVXXfQ/rmxDLILFlwTQqcRs K8ygPU49uWslYzuYqS7F6pVvAtKzjUXSFsevvNg9pbt60tS7k01VB35tEQxtmVSwfOBl SameJiB0WoEsolryLIgrti0p5jPl4k68gCbExzXtF4/DvGhX9y4bj0mChWE71vlg/aHd INlPuHUnc7R/pZ1gZm1pXn7zOpNI1Ojx+VpYcj5egkMRyBL+mPLjgALjqC6hZhBS5MWe rIfQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.113.199 with SMTP id ja7mr12595203lab.10.1340210915329; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:48:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.24.131 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:48:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <20120620085938.GL96212@ass.kameli.org> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:48:35 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=EDa?= To: Mark Felder Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:48:37 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Mark Felder wrote: > On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:27:09 -0500, Fernando Apestegu=EDa > wrote: > >> Also, in embedded systems, boot time is an important factor. > > > If you're designing a very specific embedded product based on FreeBSD why > aren't you writing your own startup system? Why would anyone expect a > general purpose "out of the box" OS to excel in a highly optimized embedd= ed > environment? I didn't say I was designing anything, I just said it is a factor. I've worked in some embedded projects in which the board had to be rebooted from time to time. In that case we needed/wanted the system to be up and running ASAP. Anyway, being a general purpose OS we can not expect FreeBSD to be installed on systems that almost never boot. That is not a reality IMHO. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 16:51:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44CA710657CA for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:51:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AC7D8FC17 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:51:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5D7FF1B4008; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:51:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FE1FF37.7020007@gentoo.org> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:49:59 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120613 Thunderbird/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Daniel Robbins , openrc@gentoo.org, "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:51:34 -0000 On 06/20/2012 11:28 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> Hi all, I wanted to jump in here. My name is Daniel Robbins and I'm >> the creator of Gentoo Linux and the original designer of the Gentoo >> initscripts, which now exist in rewritten form as OpenRC. FreeBSD >> inspired many of the concepts in Gentoo Linux. >> >> I see a great potential for collaboration here between Gentoo, Funtoo >> (my current project, a derivative/fork of Gentoo), FreeBSD and OpenRC >> (which is now an independently-managed project, distinct from the >> upstream distros) > stripped list of CC recipient - got too large. Lets include the OpenRC developers in the conversation. Hopefully one of them will add their two cents. Note that I am not actually a part of the OpenRC development team. I do stuff in Gentoo with ZFS (Linux), Clang and Gentoo FreeBSD. >> There has been some suggestion of a boot-time shoot-out, and it makes >> perfect sense to me that the OpenRC team would need to demonstrate the >> benefits of OpenRC first, before FreeBSD devs devote time to looking >> at OpenRC. > > Whatever benefits are, and for sure they are think of this: > > 1) can it be compatible with 20000 ports already made for FreeBSD, where > many of them install rc.d scripts in CURRENT format. I believe that any combination of 3 possibilities can be done: 1. We could try to modify OpenRC could be modified to work with FreeBSD init scripts. 2. We could convert the FreeBSD init scripts to the OpenRC format. On Gentoo FreeBSD, we use the same init scripts we use on Gentoo Linux, so this has not gotten much attention, but there have been a few exceptions. In particular, I have converted encswap with only minor changes. 3. We could adapt Gentoo's init scripts. In theory, they should not require modifications. In practice, exceptions are possible. > 2) is the problem 1 worth of slight improvement over already good, but > certainly not perfect rc.d subsystem. Code sharing among open source projects provides a deduplication of work, which benefits everyone. Clang and ZFS are excellent examples of this. Adoption of OpenRC in FreeBSD init system would enable us to pool our resources, which should have similar benefits. I will try to make time to write patches that import OpenRC into the base system and then do some benchmarks. To be honest, I think that the biggest advantage of OpenRC is the ease with which changes to the init system's configuration are made. Currently, you have 3 files that control things and what actually is started is a juxaposition of them. With OpenRC, you can get a very simple summary of what is started by doing `rc-update`. You can also make changes such as adding sshd by doing `rc-update add sshd default` or removing sshd by doing `rc-update remove sshd default`. It takes much less time than typing out an editor command, finding the appropriate entry (or making a new one), and making the change. There is an open bug at Gentoo for a few init scripts that we are missing. One is encswap and the conversion from FreeBSD's format to OpenRC's format was quite simple: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=420165 OpenRC init scripts lack much of the boiler plate code that FreeBSD's init scripts contain. FreeBSD's syslogd init script is 72 lines in length. OpenRC's syslogd init script is 19 lines in length and I reproduce it below: #!/sbin/runscript # Copyright (c) 2007-2009 Roy Marples # Released under the 2-clause BSD license. command=/usr/sbin/syslogd command_args=$syslogd_args case "$RC_UNAME" in FreeBSD|DragonFly) pidfile=/var/run/syslog.pid;; *) pidfile=/var/run/syslogd.pid;; esac name="System Logger Daemon" depend() { provide logger use net newsyslog need localmount after bootmisc } There is clearly much more boilerplate code in the FreeBSD counterpart. The syslogd script is unusually short for an OpenRC init script, so I present pf for something a bit more representative: #!/sbin/runscript # Copyright (c) 2007-2009 Roy Marples # Released under the 2-clause BSD license. name="Packet Filter" : ${pf_conf:=${pf_rules:-/etc/pf.conf}} required_files=$pf_conf extra_commands="checkconfig showstatus" extra_started_commands="reload" depend() { need localmount keyword -jail } start() { ebegin "Starting $name" if type kldload >/dev/null 2>&1; then kldload pf 2>/dev/null fi pfctl -q -F all pfctl -q -f "$pf_conf" $pf_args pfctl -q -e eend $? } stop() { ebegin "Stopping $name" pfctl -q -d eend $? } checkconfig() { ebegin "Checking $name configuration" pfctl -n -f "$pf_conf" eend $? } reload() { ebegin "Reloading $name rules." pfctl -q -n -f "$pf_conf" && \ { # Flush everything but existing state entries that way when # rules are read in, it doesn't break established connections. pfctl -q -Fnat -Fqueue -Frules -FSources -Finfo -FTables -Fosfp pfctl -q -f "$pf_conf" $pf_args } eend $? } showstatus() { pfctl -s info } OpenRC's init script is 59 lines while FreeBSD's pf script is 72 lines in length (just like syslogd). If you do a comparison, you should find differences in length to be consistent. OpenRC has less boilerplate code. Also, OpenRC abstracts common daemon starting/stopping functionality into a start-stop-daemon command, which is implicitly executed in the syslogd script. When `rc-status` is invoked, OpenRC is able to report daemons that have crashed. Unfortunately, OpenRC currently does not respond to such events in real time, but it should happen as soon as someone writes that functionality. > If someone would like to make new ports subsystem from scratch then it > would be great. Would you like to ? ;) > Certainly it will be great, as ports are certainly a mess, but it's > "quite" a hell amount of work! > lets assume someone working of port subsystem would prepare 3 well done > ports per day average, then you need 20 people working for it for a year > at least... I would very much like to see Gentoo's package manager rewritten in C under a BSD license along with the ability to invoke the package manager on ebuild files as is done in ports. Currently, it is in python, under the GPL and invoking the package manager on ebuild files bypasses dependency calculations. When/If those things happen, I will be sure to let people on the hackers mailing list know. For now, available development resources make that impractical. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 16:57:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCF321065677 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:57:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from luke@foolishgames.com) Received: from stargazer.midnightbsd.org (cl-218.chi-02.us.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:4978:f:d9::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D3688FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:57:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.39.1.67] (mobile-166-137-083-052.mycingular.net [166.137.83.52] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by stargazer.midnightbsd.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KGvGQo022184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:57:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from luke@foolishgames.com) X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.4 at stargazer.midnightbsd.org X-Authentication-Warning: stargazer.midnightbsd.org: Host mobile-166-137-083-052.mycingular.net [166.137.83.52] (may be forged) claimed to be [10.39.1.67] References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B206) From: Lucas Holt Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:57:11 -0400 To: Daniel Robbins Cc: Wojciech Puchar , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:57:20 -0000 On Jun 20, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Daniel Robbins wrote: > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Wojciech Puchar > wrote: >>=20 >> Whatever benefits are, and for sure they are think of this: >>=20 >> 1) can it be compatible with 20000 ports already made for FreeBSD, where >> many of them install rc.d scripts in CURRENT format. >=20 > OK. This will clearly be needed, and shouldn't take too much time to > investigate. >=20 >> 2) is the problem 1 worth of slight improvement over already good, but >> certainly not perfect rc.d subsystem. >=20 > Yes, clearly OpenRC will need to offer significant improvements to > make it worthwhile to justify migrating over to it. >=20 > So let me know if you have any ideas for anything that would be > considered more than just a slight improvement, that would make you go > "OK, now it's seriously worth considering OpenRC as this is more than > just a nominal improvement in functionality." >=20 >> If someone would like to make new ports subsystem from scratch then it wo= uld >> be great. Would you like to ? ;) >=20 > I know you are joking, but in all seriousness, this is another area of > potential collaboration, because at some point I will be looking to > significantly improve Portage. And Gentoo and Funtoo have the same > challenging of upgrading ports systems -- there's so much stuff that > already uses our *existing* ports system that needs to be moved over. > There are creative solutions to this problem that I have found. So > it's a good idea to stay in touch :) >=20 >> when i would have million dollars handy call me and find these 20 people ;= ) >=20 > I have some ideas that should make it possible to transition ports > systems with less effort than this. But this isn't related to the > current thread :) >=20 For one thing, it depends on how different the new ports system is. We migra= ted MidnightBSD's mports in about a year for roughly 2000 ports with four pe= ople, but that was a refactor of FreeBSD ports rather than a whole new syste= m. The biggest problems were related to installing into a fake root as many p= lists were terribly bad. There are classes of problems like perl ports or g= nu autotools which tend to have common solutions. In our case, we wanted so= me compatibility due to the limited resources we had. Looking at modern Fre= eBSD, most of the problems have been solved by automated testing and hard wo= rk by the ports people. I personally think the problem now is packages. They= must be updated and the tools must be better to upgrade. I know several fol= ks are working on it and both midnightbsd and pc-bsd have solutions to look a= t there as well.=20 As far as rc goes, I think it is slow for some setups and reasonable for oth= ers. Kernel boot time needs improvement as well as loading kernel modules. T= here isn't a one size fits all fix for the boot time problem. Maybe a bunch= of little improvements would help the most folks. rcorder caching or someth= ing ? Luke= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 16:13:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB0D81065675 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:13:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drobbins@funtoo.org) Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com (mail-wi0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 215418FC22 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:13:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhm11 with SMTP id hm11so1630964wib.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:13:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=4JPJfXX6bPCKdxyIRypWn7ElGDDHcvgCpSTesyW2biI=; b=l/5mI1Ce52m/JJBxUFvbFz0IFbiRa6/2r8Mc0NjMntr4ncUYZgPNRTBrLWIoWvlbAi 2HlyHi7p1J+CtTlgX2ichfQt9LyuHdrCrOV7PfxeASXUPL/meJ8557xzlDpYsEbxRJyM sDb0umpqrEZ4ekWNsvfUFQJozT6MmY4xf+oz4B9XFSAFdxF3JbRY4ZyDjkrXoSP99pDl ygtkDbdUDmRjAw/LeKOE+jOe0jXTCeERoU89IeR4xplv+8NDGgRbY+hrdr6P0z+spd5k 2uHa9+P9JlX+Id9KQspJHCzk1gDa8MKdeVM7+QidGadCsUTsy0fi2HnozlPYu6UQc7vM DYsw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.7.133 with SMTP id j5mr13126503wia.14.1340208789991; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:13:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.104.1 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:13:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:13:09 -0600 Message-ID: From: Daniel Robbins To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmKN21p32jYOyIE1ZyPIUxrGiSvcXB0zbwSct95zOduN2zLMFkc84BjTNLRc4L7S4HzPsZ5 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:05:07 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:13:11 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > actually i am happy with current system, but maybe others. > > My most important ideas are: > > - any new system should not be more complex - ability to keep all flags and > main config in single file (/etc/rc.conf) must persist. I don't want mess. > And for sure not only me. > > - once again - the less files, the better. > > Some time ago i had to use linux (fortunately no longer needed). As i don't > use it normally i just took debian installer that i remembered it WAS > usable. > > After seeing the incredible complexity of /etc structure, not just rc > scripts, i deleted most of it and put startup sequence in single file. > > It was plain horror. I think our current system for OpenRC is pretty elegant. Initscripts go in /etc/init.d. Runlevels are defined as directories in /etc/runlevels. The default runlevel is /etc/runlevels/default. To add a service to a runlevel, you type "rc-update add ". To start/stop all services according to runlevel, you type "rc". To switch runlevels, you type "rc ", like "rc mobile". > yes i am. but that joke is clear suggestion that we have already tens of > thousands better or worse made ports! Well, if ports maintenance is the much bigger problem we can also look at coordinating efforts there in the future. > if you have idea how to improve existing rc.d AND make ports working as is > then go on. I think that if FreeBSD used OpenRC (maybe initially with a compatibility layer for existing initscripts) then it would make it easier for us all to transition to a compatible ports format, since we could use the same ports initscripts. Then, an nginx port could contain an initscript that could work on both FreeBSD and Gentoo/Funtoo Linux. This could definitely open up the possibility of collaborating more easily in the future on ports maintenance. But collaborating on ports is such a big topic, and initscript compatibility is a relatively minor issue in the grand scheme of things. Is the maintenance of ports a huge issue for FreeBSD, and would you be interested in looking into working with Gentoo and Funtoo on sharing build scripts? > For me it is OK. You know, I often wonder why so much effort in the Linux world is spent on the first few seconds of a system's uptime. So I definitely understand and appreciate that you are not ready to make reckless changes to your boot process. >From my perspective, the upstart/launchd/systemd/udev mess in Linux is ugly, and we are promoting OpenRC as a sane alternative. So it helps us to have other distributions and operating systems using it. Because for Gentoo and Funtoo, OpenRC *is* our standard design, and we want to promote something more "normal" than the other stuff coming from Linux. It helps us to fight that battle when we have a broader base of users. I think that is one of the motivations of reaching out to FreeBSD -- the Gentoo and Funtoo user-base is more aligned with the sensibilities of FreeBSD than the other Linux distros moving to upstart/launchd, etc. I think that may be a major benefit of FreeBSD using OpenRC -- that you will be treated as a respected and listened-to member of the OpenRC community. I don't know if you have been following some of the politics in Linux recently, but a lot of this service management stuff has been almost shoved down our throats with the justification that it's necessary for Linux dominating the desktop. (!) Best Regards, Daniel From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 19:52:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 450DA106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:52:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gmx@ross.cx) Received: from www81.your-server.de (www81.your-server.de [213.133.104.81]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6CF18FC15 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:52:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [92.76.95.179] (helo=michael-think) by www81.your-server.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.74) (envelope-from ) id 1ShQwx-0006pI-Hp; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:52:23 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: "Wojciech Puchar" , "Daniel Robbins" References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:52:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Michael Ross" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (Win32) X-Authenticated-Sender: gmx@ross.cx X-Virus-Scanned: Clear (ClamAV 0.97.3/15064/Wed Jun 20 21:03:45 2012) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:58:11 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:52:31 -0000 Am 20.06.2012, 18:13 Uhr, schrieb Daniel Robbins : > To add a service to a runlevel, you type "rc-update add > ". > > To start/stop all services according to runlevel, you type "rc". > > To switch runlevels, you type "rc ", like "rc mobile". Just to clarify: In OpenRC I can have *arbitrary* runlevels? Not like as I remember from years ago when I used Linux, "runlevel 1 2 3 4 5", but any number of "default" "online" "maintenance", and thus I'd have *sets* of services I could conveniently start and stop together? But there is no possibility of separating base system /etc and ports /usr/local/etc? The separation between the two is something I'd not want to loose. Michael From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 20:22:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D829210656D3 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:22:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A4498FC14 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:22:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KKMdUp003315; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:22:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KKMcti003312; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:22:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:22:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Jerry McAllister In-Reply-To: <20120620160954.GA99243@jerrymc.net> Message-ID: References: <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120620160954.GA99243@jerrymc.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:22:39 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Daniel Robbins , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:22:42 -0000 > So, if Mr Puchar, in his comment, changes complex for complicated, then > I think we can all agree with the wish that it does not add complication. right. i mean complicated or overcomplex. If anyone still don't know what i mean, i recommend installing any of those trendy new cool flashy linux distro like ubuntu ;) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 20:28:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C00C5106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:28:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 236838FC19 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:28:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KKSatX003352; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:28:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KKSakZ003349; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:28:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:28:35 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Daniel Robbins In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:28:36 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:28:39 -0000 > I think our current system for OpenRC is pretty elegant. Initscripts > go in /etc/init.d. Runlevels are defined as directories in > /etc/runlevels. The default runlevel is /etc/runlevels/default. in FreeBSD you must handle /etc/* and /usr/local/etc/* - one for base system rest for ports. runlevels are quite linuxism IMHO. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 20:29:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 324491065702 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:29:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83BDD8FC16 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:29:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KKTNn4003361; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:29:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KKTNuk003358; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:29:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:29:23 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Daniel Robbins In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:29:23 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Michael Ross , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:29:27 -0000 > > # rc maintenance > # rc online this functionality seems useful. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 20:23:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18944106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:23:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drobbins@funtoo.org) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D8EA8FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:23:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so7146173wer.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:22:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=lMOE3gK0PVorVzTkNfkBYW4Y3IkA69L/YbSnFx5RTM8=; b=nmvkXcGvfbq2kDaCcOJfS3tP2+NjUagh9E8vvUr4/5gMCAX24Ijuy0pqt7RL88ogl0 JoTKq0XOAK7+jnI+UPUm3m6NJ/HBMazs+xKjOhPyYhV1btrQL2sX5IFuqHf8nI9xs83X qW28aTrc6ckmiS0PMKcjYjlFsUvTOH5QcupCYJTQJZSdpDNQEyE0F4rLWtNYQrVSlaMz ZhUNU61bthVfVZ3fe4xD1qkRRfpFYT4ExatrZEPbs51ilCVjNsw1bbmC4Bf3TDLa+8HO 7eVohwl944ytW2OFEO6nClOdsyNpjPV4LO8zRDnvZWH59fI3lBQImB477gI7cMYfpyHB 3+aA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.213.79 with SMTP id z57mr13273509weo.27.1340223777631; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.104.1 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:22:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:22:57 -0600 Message-ID: From: Daniel Robbins To: Michael Ross Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmT8aqOmsrkR4/QxDA+bCDl3YlPdt48XCoQ1Kn++jUZ7TCyLMuUGu/vEj7vkQ0dw3dBzr54 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:44:45 +0000 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:23:05 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Michael Ross wrote: > > Just to clarify: > In OpenRC I can have *arbitrary* runlevels? > Not like as I remember from years ago when I used Linux, "runlevel 1 2 3 4 > 5", > but any number of "default" "online" "maintenance", > and thus I'd have *sets* of services I could conveniently start and stop > together? Yes, this is what OpenRC offers. You can even have one runlevel be a child of another runlevel. All runlevels have logical names. By default, the system boots into "default". These are mapped to old-school 1 2 3 4 5 runlevels under linux since we are still using sysvinit, 3 maps to "default". But you can change after boot: # rc maintenance # rc online etc. This doesn't change the "hard" runlevel (3) but it changes the OpenRC logical runlevel. Basically, this convenient system is compatible with traditional linux numerical runlevels but does depend on them. > But there is no possibility of separating base system /etc and ports > /usr/local/etc? > The separation between the two is something I'd not want to loose. I don't think it would be a very huge leap at all to map in both system and ports scripts. It would likely be a relatively straightforward patch if it is not already supported. Regards, Daniel From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 20:54:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE81C1065672 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:54:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brodbd@uw.edu) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A52C28FC14 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:54:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so1776955obb.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:54:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=yoFAm5quj8undMH+dJE14Z4Kay76vpXId+BipHCejLc=; b=AUGN0SIv4NwNUfQ5LEkJUDGQI1GaHrS5TEikNCoNFTaYMR+Tsl4lb79b5EHVn+tPVp Sh2UTuCwolInrBSYa3Tzuk/OztTV5UNKIt2ycncbir8EbMNgxgG++oYiUxeNGWMPiFRX hGoDY/0Ju04sWK3z2gkjZPJ/OH97Hu0gc5tXPunftJgsj9uzR+foreGtedVUjPTtmJVP 9yrvrsb/oxv+oiambDbGeWLMBS4ZWSDtE4VkaKh2TvJ8G5bKqtIjgAMaRYOPGgiYARCg skLZojrBijeUt/yD7BNOx1ORDvez4rgHk9Ds1BYosQ9oAPbdAG3gRp3GWZ+ZWnzqXUOX d1jA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.174.70 with SMTP id bq6mr14979113obc.78.1340225651209; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.136.1 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:54:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:54:11 -0700 Message-ID: From: David Brodbeck To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmsy4L9Hl3nA97rBbdudDFBfs/YhLcEqMMezD8MQ8jmtgc4yP6+H1ljwcCcZTtBEmy2/qNE Cc: Daniel Robbins , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:54:12 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > Some time ago i had to use linux (fortunately no longer needed). As i don= 't > use it normally i just took debian installer that i remembered it WAS > usable. > > After seeing the incredible complexity of /etc structure, not just rc > scripts, i deleted most of it and put startup sequence in single file. > > It was plain horror. You would weep if you saw Solaris's SMF, then. Everything is controlled by XML files, which you have to install and uninstall via the black-box 'svcadm' and 'svcs' commands. It's the most opaque init system I've ever seen. Lots of neat features, but I never feel confident I'm dealing with it right, especially when trying to implement a new service. rc.d-style init scripts aren't *that* bad, but some of the new parallel init systems are quite confusing. I recently spent most of a day trying to figure out why Ubuntu wouldn't launch a new rc script I'd installed before realizing that the parallel init system it uses simply silently ignores scripts that don't indicate their dependencies in a way it understands. --=20 David Brodbeck System Administrator,=A0Linguistics University of Washington From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 21:18:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A6A1065672 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:18:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from br@jail.io) Received: from mx.bsdpad.com (mx.bsdpad.com [46.4.68.80]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 410058FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:18:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx.bsdpad.com ([46.4.68.80] helo=jail.io) by mx.bsdpad.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ShRla-000GZa-2N for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:44:42 +0400 Received: (from br@localhost) by jail.io (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5KKifdq063709 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:44:41 GMT (envelope-from br) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:44:41 +0400 From: Ruslan Bukin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620204441.GA63638@jail.io> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: newbus / snd_hdspe(4) trouble X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:18:52 -0000 Hi. I have the problem with different behavior of snd_hdspe(4) sound card driver initialization. If I load the driver by hand using kldload everything works fine, but in case of loading driver at boot time (loader.conf) or compile in kernel the driver can't initialize propertly. The snd_hdspe(4) driver is designed to create a pcm child device per each pair of sound channels. The problem is that snd_hdspe loaded normally, but pcm child devices are not appears. hdspe_pcm_probe() in driver is not called at all. However snd_hdspe_pcm driver exists in kldstat -v after boot: 5 1 0xffffffff81377000 a2c8 snd_hdspe.ko (/boot/kernel/snd_hdspe.ko) Contains modules: Id Name 7 hdspe/snd_hdspe_pcm 6 pci/snd_hdspe and I have checked, device_add_child() returns not NULL. I played with MODULE_DEPEND as done in snd_hda(4) but no luck. What can I do to debug the problem? -Ruslan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 20:28:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38968106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:28:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drobbins@funtoo.org) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABBF98FC18 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:28:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so7757541wgb.31 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:28:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=nGKyhJ+SjUH9R5HytxT9vaLhhvLa2XfdIqntIx8V1Ak=; b=KzWezRlahOJzCQ2+DbTEbBO2W5AODQqAk+OoW82kFXMHwNlx0CtZN4OAcLIz/uPgjE HroDXsSMJOgkHurtUSMjD6k0WMBfPXH2gHow7jAjrxNkJJoC6gCUcFBnm2LnrErt9fvt gdkf96vrlJ2nLJyUmD58eXQlS70i1qFFxD4/ijndM0HbJRRAy2u6BPeaqh0YS4YINeB7 ykn3cr6Cbqzi+aAEYp3EV8MSnlVGlc1yWzXxiV47U7E6DfDmkNdzcfntxtfDqvJAZU0x FgouYOEfG+HrqfKjdsKZHLZAwRa9Et443ClpzhpdAOOu1Eqmk6fwfrgDIVV+5Ij/LJ9G z+8g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.50.211 with SMTP id z61mr12255674web.57.1340224117659; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:28:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.104.1 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:28:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:28:37 -0600 Message-ID: From: Daniel Robbins To: Michael Ross Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk6WXZPFpfFXzL5FijiAnp9LQD5r7mlwGj5A4s/e96F1WZ1r0LOQh5Cjew1VFG3VRMF4IZ/ X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:22:57 +0000 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:28:39 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Daniel Robbins wrote: > > This doesn't change the "hard" runlevel (3) but it changes the OpenRC > logical runlevel. Basically, this convenient system is compatible with > traditional linux numerical runlevels but does depend on them. > Meant to type: "does NOT depend on them". Here is a bit more info: Runlevel-specific conf.d files: http://www.funtoo.org/wiki/Funtoo_Linux_Networking#Alternate_Configs Stacked runlevels (this is a more sophisticated feature than just creating a duplicate, separately-managed runlevel): http://www.funtoo.org/wiki/Stacked_Runlevels To create a separately-managed runlevel, you would just: # mkdir /etc/runlevels/maintenance # rc-update add maintenance svc1 # rc-update add maintenance svc2 # rc-update add maintenance svc1 You could then switch by typing: # rc maintenance Anything not in the maintenance runlevel that is currently running would be stopped, and any new services in maintenance that are not running would be started. Regards, Daniel From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 21:34:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF8201065897 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:34:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gmx@ross.cx) Received: from www81.your-server.de (www81.your-server.de [213.133.104.81]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B9F98FC15 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:34:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [92.76.95.179] (helo=michael-think) by www81.your-server.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.74) (envelope-from ) id 1ShSXs-0005CB-KF; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:34:36 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: "Daniel Robbins" , "Wojciech Puchar" References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:34:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Michael Ross" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (Win32) X-Authenticated-Sender: gmx@ross.cx X-Virus-Scanned: Clear (ClamAV 0.97.3/15064/Wed Jun 20 21:03:45 2012) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:38:51 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:34:38 -0000 Am 20.06.2012, 22:29 Uhr, schrieb Wojciech Puchar : >> >> # rc maintenance >> # rc online > > this functionality seems useful. That's... not the word I'd have used. I'm sort-of-emulating this using custom scripts quite often, and especially with the stacked runlevel variety, this is something I really would like to have. http://www.funtoo.org/wiki/Stacked_Runlevels shows the possibility of multiple network configs, too, if I read this right, i could have # rc online with 2 children: # rc online-devel vs # rc online-demo to have the same services, but different network settings, without (un)commenting lines in rc.conf before and after the on-site demonstration. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 21:42:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EFF2106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:42:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94458FC21 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:42:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so5456232qcs.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:42:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=CyIF95rdEFheKsP1B/XC7ATYVgUkZmiCo3+oBOxn1zA=; b=a3jRXYtJT2OAE14SWdlNhxWk+S5OaInus48H6IRHXyh+Fif2ReDX3hfNaI+3j2EnvM DqaXIj21Y3gZ9ejaIDKOQ3kXmMEjyOLBN81hFdRuTrM1wafcbSPqI7/DfDLLwKznrwGB JL7BhPWTKn7x5zwcymLPTfrRhOqGKJy4034vX0LAHT2iJ4wMSmCYw6zr0tGP+/h2uuur skwhmGXvPDO+c7ulawBINsWJewj0ZcRWfErg/3uFX+0Y2mQGxOvqpCb9reh3/cfCWcCG QGp5McCB9Ps3QX8IWWtlCOXuRY8gG9O8wD+dmjZ6EOKdxEI89YGjbLDgFo2x3kyelLzD Td9A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.204.197 with SMTP id fn5mr387731qab.65.1340228569401; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.192.68 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:42:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:42:49 -0700 Message-ID: From: Freddie Cash To: Daniel Robbins Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: Michael Ross , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:42:50 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Daniel Robbins wrote: > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Daniel Robbins wrote: >> >> This doesn't change the "hard" runlevel (3) but it changes the OpenRC >> logical runlevel. Basically, this convenient system is compatible with >> traditional linux numerical runlevels but does depend on them. >> > > Meant to type: "does NOT depend on them". > > Here is a bit more info: > > Runlevel-specific conf.d files: > > http://www.funtoo.org/wiki/Funtoo_Linux_Networking#Alternate_Configs > > Stacked runlevels (this is a more sophisticated feature than just > creating a duplicate, separately-managed runlevel): > > http://www.funtoo.org/wiki/Stacked_Runlevels > > To create a separately-managed runlevel, you would just: > > # mkdir /etc/runlevels/maintenance > # rc-update add maintenance svc1 > # rc-update add maintenance svc2 > # rc-update add maintenance svc1 > > You could then switch by typing: > > # rc maintenance > > Anything not in the maintenance runlevel that is currently running > would be stopped, and any new services in maintenance that are not > running would be started. There's no need to do a wholesale replacement of the RC system in FreeBSD to support this concept. What you are describing are "service profiles". And we already have a single file that describes the default "service profile" for FreeBSD: /etc/rc.conf. That lists every service that should be started (or stopped). All that's missing is a way to tell the RC system to use a different rc.conf file (like rc.conf.mobile, or rc.conf.wireless or rc.conf.whatever), and to run through the RC setup based on that file. Our current RC system does everything needed except: - parallel execution of items that don't depend on each other - monitor running services and restart them if they crash Compared to all the init/RC systems on Linux, ours has *many* advantages, not the least of which are: - very simple text configuration file - only 2 directories of init scripts to worry about (/etc/rc.d; /usr/local/etc/rc.d) - ability to create "generic" or global config file (/etc/rc.conf) with local overrides (/etc/rc.conf.local) - ability to see the exact order that things will start (or stop) via rcorder - everything is written in nice, simple, sh We don't need to replace a perfectly working system. Maybe it needs improving, but it doesn't need replacing. -- Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 21:48:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48806106566C; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:48:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@aspire.rulingia.com) Received: from vps.rulingia.com (host-122-100-2-194.octopus.com.au [122.100.2.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C43B78FC14; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:48:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from aspire.rulingia.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aspire.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KLeA38015683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:40:31 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@aspire.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by aspire.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5KLe6nD015682; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:40:06 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:40:06 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Daniel Robbins Message-ID: <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> References: <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="6TrnltStXW4iwmi0" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:54:46 +0000 Cc: Mark Linimon , Doug Barton , Garrett Cooper , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Vincent Hoffman , Richard Yao , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , Wojciech Puchar , openrc@gentoo.org, Atte =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:48:55 -0000 --6TrnltStXW4iwmi0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2012-Jun-20 09:05:05 -0600, Daniel Robbins wrote: >I see a great potential for collaboration here between Gentoo, Funtoo >(my current project, a derivative/fork of Gentoo), FreeBSD and OpenRC >(which is now an independently-managed project, distinct from the >upstream distros) The more different projects can share common code, the better. >But if boot time isn't a huge priority, then maybe it is the wrong >place to focus. Boot time is an issue for some people - even people with "never rebooted" servers need fast boot times when they _do_ need to reboot (hardware failures, kernel security fixes) to get that last '9' of uptime. > I think the big benefit of OpenRC to FreeBSD is that >we are looking to continually improve it and include you in the >requirements-gathering process for future development efforts. Even if FreeBSD doesn't switch to OpenRC, it's definitely worth looking at the shortcomings of the current rc system and how it could be improved. The most obvious ones (IMHO) are: - Lack of dependency handling for manual start/stop - No provision to automatically restart a daemon if it dies. >Solaris SMF has already been mentioned. As someone who has had the misfortune to use it, I would say that the underlying concept is nice but the implementation is a disaster. In particular, _everything_ is different to "traditional" Unix init systems. The systems administrator needs to learn a completely new mindset for interacting with the init system and the package developer has to develop completely different service management scripts. On 2012-Jun-20 17:28:45 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >1) can it be compatible with 20000 ports already made for FreeBSD, where= =20 >many of them install rc.d scripts in CURRENT format. The dependency information should already be encoded in both base and ports rc scripts. Unfortunately, it looks like OpenRC encodes the information in a different way, so it's not just a plugin replacement. One task for anyone wanting to integrate OpenRC would be working out how to handle this - preferably without rewriting every rc script. Since we already have dependency information, there is no technical reason why a tool like rcorder(8) couldn't indicate that particular scripts or groups of scripts could run in parallel. In practice, I expect that doing so will turn up a large number of scripts which have incorrect dependency information which has been masked by the current serial processing. Anyone implementing parallel rc processing will need to be able to distinguish between errors in their tools and errors in the actual rc scripts. I know dougb@ regularly picks up issues with new & updated ports but it's not realistic to rely on him manually picking up every rc script error. --=20 Peter Jeremy --6TrnltStXW4iwmi0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/iQzYACgkQ/opHv/APuIcvXACfdI9oHpHFdU4CB0KvK9mtB3xX 7WkAn089XtD4Cs9vxILx/BB5g1gywe4r =JQ1V -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --6TrnltStXW4iwmi0-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 22:02:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DB6D106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:02:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6262D8FC16 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:02:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KM2Y9U001505; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:02:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KM2YG0001502; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:02:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:02:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: David Brodbeck In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:02:34 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Daniel Robbins , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:02:39 -0000 >> scripts, i deleted most of it and put startup sequence in single file. >> >> It was plain horror. > > You would weep if you saw Solaris's SMF, then. Everything is i don't really know what i've seen. i've installed latest solaris demo downloaded from oracle. After nearly an hour of installation over which i had really no control and no real clue what's going on i finally after over 5 minutes got the system booted, logged as root and tried to understand the /etc tree, boot process and gave up really quickly. just seeing a files and directories (both numerous) of just a kernel binaries was truly enough. Now... lets go back to FreeBSD which is controllable and understandable by a human. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 22:03:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8CCA106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:03:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285A58FC1F for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:03:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KM3f4w001514; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:03:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KM3erG001511; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:03:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:03:40 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Freddie Cash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:03:41 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Daniel Robbins , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Michael Ross Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:03:45 -0000 >> To create a separately-managed runlevel, you would just: >> >> # mkdir /etc/runlevels/maintenance >> # rc-update add maintenance svc1 >> # rc-update add maintenance svc2 >> # rc-update add maintenance svc1 seems already not nice. Cannot i just edit one file to do this using my favourite text editor? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 22:17:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7A20106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:17:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A0C18FC17 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:17:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KMHCnY001644; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:17:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KMHB3g001641; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:17:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:17:11 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Peter Jeremy In-Reply-To: <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> Message-ID: References: <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:17:13 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Daniel Robbins , openrc@gentoo.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:17:26 -0000 > The more different projects can share common code, the better. as long as we share good code and good ideas. > Boot time is an issue for some people - even people with "never > rebooted" servers need fast boot times when they _do_ need to reboot speeding up anything is always good. >> I think the big benefit of OpenRC to FreeBSD is that >> we are looking to continually improve it and include you in the >> requirements-gathering process for future development efforts. > > Even if FreeBSD doesn't switch to OpenRC, it's definitely worth > looking at the shortcomings of the current rc system and how it could > be improved. The most obvious ones (IMHO) are: > - Lack of dependency handling for manual start/stop which is not really a problem and often an adventage. > - No provision to automatically restart a daemon if it dies. but it should not be a part of rc subsystem at all. First - deamons should not die without reason. If they do, admin should clearly know it and feel it's effects, and after fixing a source problem , restart it manually. in case when you are for some reason required (temporarily of course) to use daemons that often dies, then just make restart wrapper shell script and put it in place of actual daemon in rc.d script. This is what i do with asterisk process that rarely but do crash. But i did it myself and any responsible admin should do this himself, knowing a problem. The proposition sounds for me somehow like windows XP/7 solution that restarts services and windows explorer so it "doesn't fail". Such ideas and methods of constructing operating environment is possibly acceptable under linux community, MAYBE for PC-BSD, but not for anything serious. there is IMHO already too much automata in default FreeBSD: default /etc/crontab, /etc/newsyslog.conf and /etc/periodic directory. All gets deleted by me as soon as i install FreeBSD. All of this mechanisms are good, but none should be in default system install with possible exception: */5 * * * * root /usr/libexec/atrun */11 * * * * operator /usr/libexec/save-entropy Everything else should be run after clear request and knowledge of sysadmin. scripts from /etc/periodic should go to /usr/share/examples From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 22:22:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0225106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:22:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 345C28FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:22:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KMMtbk001675; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:22:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KMMtR7001672; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:22:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:22:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Michael Ross In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:22:55 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Daniel Robbins , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:23:00 -0000 > >>> >>> # rc maintenance >>> # rc online >> >> this functionality seems useful. > > That's... not the word I'd have used. > I'm sort-of-emulating this using custom scripts quite often, true. custom script that do lots of start or stops are good. But with N>2 "runlevels" without this subsystem you would need to run multiple of them or have N*(N-1) scripts. But i don't like the idea of executing commands to add new "runlevels", configure it etc. I like the idea of single config file, or POSSIBLY integrating it in rc.conf service_enable=YES could be replaced by service1_enable=YES service1_disable="maintenance blah" service2_enable="maintenance" which means service1 should be stopped at "runlevels" maintenance and blah, and service2 enabled only at "runlevel" maintenance. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 23:32:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5812C106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:32:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfg@freebsd.org) Received: from nm10-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm10-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.91.198]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2A8958FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:32:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [72.30.22.79] by nm10.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jun 2012 23:31:59 -0000 Received: from [98.139.91.39] by tm13.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jun 2012 23:31:59 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1039.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jun 2012 23:31:59 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 358823.27160.bm@omp1039.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 68778 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Jun 2012 23:31:58 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1340235118; bh=ibnZTlbQDEWbwspyn0pXZrEPe0ogipGvKXFU82TyIxo=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-RocketYMMF:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=NPnCUla5RCsQDrEJaVDlXNBrY+tdfuDN/VfTV3K221AW1XeAUEdC7l/865BqoIOsVGXJEsAFbq2nFUm9aOt3a998jWbuZvnKzzkCICVYNUuSBQovlhnEjGcr63nlJDab0/EgAGOHBLEK3/S0zue5PYwO9lUHIQW1d1Xn1pLPW9s= X-YMail-OSG: 1aP2LKsVM1mxj1xUWcfc7XNxSkS92_YzvJM23.UYwkE.RoK xynQ_700pIeNusCz1L9dCtWtq05jS5IVRubfw1psmIisF5QBhKeRlMohhWQN Z2dcySc2YmlHfbgePoh.FQaE8.RsowopaQ_K1BmNVX5DV04idnFfR9kJ6aWI pUa4p4fAeFyqAvPUOw_1xi1lzGZuHwg8W.NfFDFAHyLGHk9LYK16Szdd7bNz TFDKh8l_qUc0zrQTkcoLB_lgzDuJwSMUFhPhU.c._ylQNZ6pjQIdUL_Hrz1u 1MA.l7nMqI7g03jURd5sTAodaKqHCZG1XwiLEjAqOrw7d9x3yNKfgSH2_6ld SPNB6gPHW.o5WokJrsnXX0HoHdhA77qTXt2NLEuaeOCy1lOE_OR9jKb6Y7jQ s2bzBxc8w_SbQsbR6X9P_wkBBdN1h6l.k1RcBlrScRm5Cv1kL7AS_H6hFZtk MwQTqP_UIQgwEADK3D5khpnk9i4TTrMsLH8AZF0Uwx0oJYuAPjVocnkVk1GM VUmpNIQ.1eb8WOQBImxwlMXq6upOd1rFa65Db4NcsnnkjII922LYkeASTCqL B37D2twaE6dyUHQAv Received: from [200.118.157.7] by web113509.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:31:58 PDT X-RocketYMMF: giffunip X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/15.0.6 YahooMailWebService/0.8.118.349524 Message-ID: <1340235118.8901.YahooMailClassic@web113509.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:31:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Pedro Giffuni To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: brooks@FreeBSD.org Subject: Interest in a Summer of Code in Space? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: pfg@freebsd.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:32:05 -0000 Hello;=0A=0AThis year the European Space Agency will have it's=0Asecond Sum= mer of Code in Space:=0A=0Ahttp://sophia.estec.esa.int/socis2012/=0A=0AThis= may be a good opportunity to get FreeBSD in=0Ayet-another interesting fiel= d, plus one of our=0Aprojects in the "Ideas Page" seems to be ideal=0Ato ge= t some funding from them:=0A=0Ahttp://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage#SCPS.2C_Sp= ace_Communication_Protocol_Standards=0A=0AJust thought I would share this i= n case someone=0Ais interested :).=0A=0ACheers,=0A=0APedro. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 23:48:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0DB106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:48:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root.vagner@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE97A8FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:48:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so31381yen.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:48:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Xf49McLYjCdfa79/VD/dT4Nw8r+RHDd2KdoUjJmOzU4=; b=mwNFUJefTdo9LERrsaiowgpfYB5+hom4vPHEMlF21750EJ9UAkI0HIEHv2PQH4FQpU H9HVLmZU7tnrmRvUj18EjIa7xpHPEdTiEuPLMuSz2h+bWzDQIGNBykYkxqitSWQXw2aN zKJ/nx6K1qScV0Uzyi3/cMugH5wtOM95EFtDMq24xkF7LDS15gcM6O6X8XYrqvs8qB7v J7zFAOE7cAiYTfq02WI7l9U+XOWYAWjHL9ANkV+avDpXUQGuZxjuMy0YhcFHwYlQQhxz pf44dR1BdTAzxuo8lWZ3MaWwfj1ZAXiJ/k0sbletLHe+cng/9z1+45DflsV/WpCgrmlE u0DQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.187.228 with SMTP id fv4mr6116102igc.10.1340236097711; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.165.200 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:48:17 +0400 Message-ID: From: Stanislav Zaharov To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: sockstat.c X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:48:19 -0000 Hi all! I changed the sockstat.c, function display() - added a resize of fields, depending on the length of the data. Can I suggest you look at the resulting source code? -- Respectfully, Stanislav Putrya System & network administrator WWW: fotostrana.ru WWW2: bsdway.ru icq: 328585847 e-mail: root.vagner@gmail.com e-mail: vagner@bsdway.ru From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 23:55:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55AB3106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:55:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13F948FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:55:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so87035obb.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:55:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=VjZCjwJw4viMRl0idtf4K7ouxlHCCBvaeA5v6aU1PDA=; b=IwDIUQyaiITOCJCfBfHQv/4jEt6C/YeZyMY9l4KQejhitbeuMiWFkaoc64qUsL+XW7 bC1uSL9RHCoF5qFcVvGBy4lMowV/LLf04RzD11ywP4EXdg85FzbteYQ5kTkwK+yGucnJ weq/6WtgBj1hObQWSmuSwZTrQXW4POQMtOW6o= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=VjZCjwJw4viMRl0idtf4K7ouxlHCCBvaeA5v6aU1PDA=; b=CpxuYmccOavLZ/rq2uvUnwsEMg4hkIImEtHxyEGfPDUxu/k0z+QBOF9zF2MYuNYZsn cYp6U692RHL1CwtCywaTRFv1eKMPPZg5F3/Tzd2laR3cILqUB7BywD+eijP/a80gzNsB ZG1fRd15pnT1g1BuoG2L1MlIOSWWuAsrsmIVh/8NBK1+PFlevVLKJH7Y/aOKN33Wj2RN a7jN/xcMhZ566ZQktUTyQo4nCAbe+7zfKZRIoK+xfnJN1TQsoVXeBhoqUqaygWsmkFeC qt+n0x6t4Z8Fo++rTyq4h2MDtANVcYN6hJxTo3ZWI40fY0aHfPwmx/25ERpICgWLpnqh nN+Q== Received: by 10.182.151.113 with SMTP id up17mr25695955obb.40.1340236552617; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:55:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.125.70 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:55:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Eitan Adler Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:55:22 -0700 Message-ID: To: Stanislav Zaharov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmWYVR6XPpzz7sU/3QeUMjjnr5inyo6dNFBxmh585N+6AE/8HYNcz+3K00Fc1/IQBb4fFQ/ Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sockstat.c X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:55:53 -0000 On 20 June 2012 16:48, Stanislav Zaharov wrote: > Hi all! > I changed the sockstat.c, function display() - added a resize of fields, > depending on the length of the data. Can I suggest you look at the > resulting source > code? no patch is attached. Can you resend or upload somewhere and give the url? -- Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 22:23:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29FCD106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:23:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gmx@ross.cx) Received: from www81.your-server.de (www81.your-server.de [213.133.104.81]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C96698FC15 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:23:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [92.76.95.179] (helo=michael-think) by www81.your-server.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.74) (envelope-from ) id 1ShTJa-0007KN-8b; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:23:54 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: "Daniel Robbins" , "Freddie Cash" References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:23:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Michael Ross" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (Win32) X-Authenticated-Sender: gmx@ross.cx X-Virus-Scanned: Clear (ClamAV 0.97.3/15064/Wed Jun 20 21:03:45 2012) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 01:13:17 +0000 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:23:56 -0000 Am 20.06.2012, 23:42 Uhr, schrieb Freddie Cash : > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Daniel Robbins > wrote: >> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Daniel Robbins >> wrote: >>> >>> This doesn't change the "hard" runlevel (3) but it changes the OpenRC >>> logical runlevel. Basically, this convenient system is compatible with >>> traditional linux numerical runlevels but does depend on them. >>> >> >> Meant to type: "does NOT depend on them". >> >> Here is a bit more info: >> >> Runlevel-specific conf.d files: >> >> http://www.funtoo.org/wiki/Funtoo_Linux_Networking#Alternate_Configs >> >> Stacked runlevels (this is a more sophisticated feature than just >> creating a duplicate, separately-managed runlevel): >> >> http://www.funtoo.org/wiki/Stacked_Runlevels >> >> To create a separately-managed runlevel, you would just: >> >> # mkdir /etc/runlevels/maintenance >> # rc-update add maintenance svc1 >> # rc-update add maintenance svc2 >> # rc-update add maintenance svc1 >> >> You could then switch by typing: >> >> # rc maintenance >> >> Anything not in the maintenance runlevel that is currently running >> would be stopped, and any new services in maintenance that are not >> running would be started. > > There's no need to do a wholesale replacement of the RC system in > FreeBSD to support this concept. What you are describing are "service > profiles". And we already have a single file that describes the > default "service profile" for FreeBSD: /etc/rc.conf. That lists > every service that should be started (or stopped). > > All that's missing is a way to tell the RC system to use a different > rc.conf file (like rc.conf.mobile, or rc.conf.wireless or > rc.conf.whatever), and to run through the RC setup based on that file. ... and to be able to switch between two configurations at runtime, without taking down services listed active in both configurations preferably. > Our current RC system does everything needed except: > - parallel execution of items that don't depend on each other > - monitor running services and restart them if they crash > > Compared to all the init/RC systems on Linux, ours has *many* > advantages, not the least of which are: > - very simple text configuration file > - only 2 directories of init scripts to worry about (/etc/rc.d; > /usr/local/etc/rc.d) > - ability to create "generic" or global config file (/etc/rc.conf) > with local overrides (/etc/rc.conf.local) > - ability to see the exact order that things will start (or stop) via > rcorder > - everything is written in nice, simple, sh > > We don't need to replace a perfectly working system. Maybe it needs > improving, but it doesn't need replacing. > Yes. I don't even think it *needs* improving, but "service profiles" including "network profiles" would be really nice and worth looking into. If we can get that without loosing the simple text-file-based configuration, the better. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 05:13:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2201D106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:13:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root.vagner@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E09C98FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:13:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so354676dad.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:13:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=GsqzGhFy9tEfDSQYbX0AxSqg+Ne27KoZhepFArwk+K0=; b=WIuiW6o97Uq4pWszosuVS/HDX3JBVxiBO065Qidj09icRKUpuyW0t5lCkgbw/Ko3xR PVIxyP31HUmg0cdxjAwXwkA5+HO4tbiITYUfln86EEhkFVF2GnnneReWyI5z4qqFH9FA LqH5C+FAe4cU4gIvgZm1JYM/dPISSes8zalRqM97y+jMaMxZUwl8Ug52EYx1I3el46NC fmHcrTHGOnk7GiWP7LhgXsXkKhD0530iaGa1lisSZzQlEhU0B/oE07SJymXuHVvBRrsl w1zH/bLjw+9F8RhSXSoWRofKmBAl2YCAv9R+XAT/vJEGOWtR5beGyOX8of2yUgizkXEm Ahkg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.239.164 with SMTP id vt4mr81285766pbc.166.1340255582188; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.36.5 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:13:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:13:01 +0400 Message-ID: From: Stanislav Zaharov To: Eitan Adler Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=047d7b33d664e273ca04c2f49178 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sockstat.c X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:13:03 -0000 --047d7b33d664e273ca04c2f49178 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Sorry, patch now as an attachment On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 3:55 AM, Eitan Adler wrote: > On 20 June 2012 16:48, Stanislav Zaharov wrote: > > Hi all! > > I changed the sockstat.c, function display() - added a resize of fields, > > depending on the length of the data. Can I suggest you look at the > > resulting source > > code? > > no patch is attached. Can you resend or upload somewhere and give the url? > > > -- > Eitan Adler > -- Dear , Respectfully, Stanislav Putrya System & network administrator LTD "RMK Kovsh" icq: 328585847 e-mail: root.vagner@gmail.com e-mail: vagner_rider@bk.ru --047d7b33d664e273ca04c2f49178 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="sockstat.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sockstat.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: f_h3pdl6qe0 KioqIC91c3Ivc3JjL3Vzci5iaW4vc29ja3N0YXQvc29ja3N0YXQuYwkyMDExLTExLTExIDA4OjIw OjIyLjAwMDAwMDAwMCArMDQwMAotLS0gL3Vzci9zcmMvc29ja3N0YXQuYwkyMDEyLTA2LTIxIDA5 OjA0OjMzLjAwMDAwMDAwMCArMDQwMAoqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioKKioqIDU3LDczICoqKioKLS0t IDU3LDc2IC0tLS0KICAjaW5jbHVkZSA8c3RkaW8uaD4KICAjaW5jbHVkZSA8c3RkbGliLmg+CiAg I2luY2x1ZGUgPHN0cmluZy5oPgogICNpbmNsdWRlIDx1bmlzdGQuaD4KICAKKyAjZGVmaW5lIE1B WExFTiAxMDAKKyAKICBzdGF0aWMgaW50CSBvcHRfNDsJCS8qIFNob3cgSVB2NCBzb2NrZXRzICov CiAgc3RhdGljIGludAkgb3B0XzY7CQkvKiBTaG93IElQdjYgc29ja2V0cyAqLwogIHN0YXRpYyBp 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CWNhc2UgJ3UnOgogIAkJCW9wdF91ID0gMTsK --047d7b33d664e273ca04c2f49178-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 09:58:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 093441065674 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:58:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B1CB8FC1E for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:58:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5L9wc2w001659; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:58:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5L9wbe9001656; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:58:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:58:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Michael Ross In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:58:38 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Daniel Robbins , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:58:44 -0000 >> All that's missing is a way to tell the RC system to use a different >> rc.conf file (like rc.conf.mobile, or rc.conf.wireless or >> rc.conf.whatever), and to run through the RC setup based on that file. > > ... and to be able to switch between two configurations at runtime, > without taking down services listed active in both configurations preferably. i already proposed how to make this easily with single rc.conf only. >> Our current RC system does everything needed except: >> - parallel execution of items that don't depend on each other true. can be actually added easily. >> - monitor running services and restart them if they crash should not be done, or at least not default. >> Compared to all the init/RC systems on Linux, ours has *many* >> advantages, not the least of which are: >> - very simple text configuration file it's a requirement not just adventage :) > Yes. > I don't even think it *needs* improving, but "service profiles" including > "network profiles" would be really nice and worth looking into. If we can get > that without loosing the simple text-file-based configuration, the better. we can. but from what i've seen about openrc it is overly complicated. For sure better that other things used in linux distros but still not tolerable. why replace something very good? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 10:22:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F4ED1065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:22:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0B6D8FC12 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:22:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LAM9fn001812; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LAM8U6001809; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:08 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Peter Jeremy In-Reply-To: <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> Message-ID: References: <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:10 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , openrc@gentoo.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:22:14 -0000 Lets make a summary. What functionality would be good to have in FreeBSD that doesn't exist: 1) "runlevels" with arbitrary names. runlevel change would start and stop right services. 2) exploit startup parallelism. What we do not want to change: - file structure which is simple. one file in rc.d/ per service and one global config file (rc.conf) - anything else that would make things more complicated. As for 1) i propose in rc.conf an option to put "NO", "YES" (or ALL) or runlevel list for each service or runlevel exclusion list for service. examples: service1_enable="YES" service2_enable="NO" service3_enable="foolevel maintenance" service4_enable="YES -foolevel" (or ALL -funkyrunlevel) name of default runlevel may be "full" or "multiuser" service 1 will always work, service 2 never, service 3 only at runlevels "foolevel" and "maintenance", service4 with any runlevel except "foolevel". still single rc.conf, not much bigger in practice. 2) no change in rc.d/* scripts and rc.conf, but change in scripts. If everyone agree i think i may write this new scripts. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 10:56:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F40A1065679 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:56:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 699808FC1D for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:56:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LAuBpo001977; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:56:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LAuA6G001974; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:56:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:56:10 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Michael Ross In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:56:11 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , openrc@gentoo.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:56:15 -0000 > > ifconfig_em0="inet ..." ( default (or unknown) runlevel ) > ifconfig_em0_foolevel="inet ..." ( foolevel runlevel ) > ifconfig_em0_maintenance="inet ..." ( maintanence runlevel ) > > too ? well - possible BUT... but well. this will not require only changing "launcher" script for rc.d/* things but scripts itself. and extra flag so launcher at runlevel change will have to rerun network initialization script. Can you give an example where you need that? it is a bit strange, network IP numbers are the same no matter what we do at present. i will think about it, not doing it but allowing to easy make it then. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 06:50:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9EA7106566B; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:50:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vps.rulingia.com (host-122-100-2-194.octopus.com.au [122.100.2.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 454C48FC17; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:50:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server.rulingia.com (c220-239-254-65.belrs5.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.254.65]) by vps.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5L6oE2D017945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:50:14 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from aspire.rulingia.com (aspire.rulingia.com [192.168.123.161]) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5L6nx1B068531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:50:07 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from aspire.rulingia.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aspire.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KLeA38015683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:40:31 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@aspire.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by aspire.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5KLe6nD015682; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:40:06 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:40:06 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Daniel Robbins Message-ID: <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> References: <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="6TrnltStXW4iwmi0" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:12:49 +0000 Cc: Mark Linimon , Doug Barton , Garrett Cooper , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Vincent Hoffman , Richard Yao , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , Wojciech Puchar , openrc@gentoo.org, Atte =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:50:19 -0000 --6TrnltStXW4iwmi0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2012-Jun-20 09:05:05 -0600, Daniel Robbins wrote: >I see a great potential for collaboration here between Gentoo, Funtoo >(my current project, a derivative/fork of Gentoo), FreeBSD and OpenRC >(which is now an independently-managed project, distinct from the >upstream distros) The more different projects can share common code, the better. >But if boot time isn't a huge priority, then maybe it is the wrong >place to focus. Boot time is an issue for some people - even people with "never rebooted" servers need fast boot times when they _do_ need to reboot (hardware failures, kernel security fixes) to get that last '9' of uptime. > I think the big benefit of OpenRC to FreeBSD is that >we are looking to continually improve it and include you in the >requirements-gathering process for future development efforts. Even if FreeBSD doesn't switch to OpenRC, it's definitely worth looking at the shortcomings of the current rc system and how it could be improved. The most obvious ones (IMHO) are: - Lack of dependency handling for manual start/stop - No provision to automatically restart a daemon if it dies. >Solaris SMF has already been mentioned. As someone who has had the misfortune to use it, I would say that the underlying concept is nice but the implementation is a disaster. In particular, _everything_ is different to "traditional" Unix init systems. The systems administrator needs to learn a completely new mindset for interacting with the init system and the package developer has to develop completely different service management scripts. On 2012-Jun-20 17:28:45 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >1) can it be compatible with 20000 ports already made for FreeBSD, where= =20 >many of them install rc.d scripts in CURRENT format. The dependency information should already be encoded in both base and ports rc scripts. Unfortunately, it looks like OpenRC encodes the information in a different way, so it's not just a plugin replacement. One task for anyone wanting to integrate OpenRC would be working out how to handle this - preferably without rewriting every rc script. Since we already have dependency information, there is no technical reason why a tool like rcorder(8) couldn't indicate that particular scripts or groups of scripts could run in parallel. In practice, I expect that doing so will turn up a large number of scripts which have incorrect dependency information which has been masked by the current serial processing. Anyone implementing parallel rc processing will need to be able to distinguish between errors in their tools and errors in the actual rc scripts. I know dougb@ regularly picks up issues with new & updated ports but it's not realistic to rely on him manually picking up every rc script error. --=20 Peter Jeremy --6TrnltStXW4iwmi0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/iQzYACgkQ/opHv/APuIcvXACfdI9oHpHFdU4CB0KvK9mtB3xX 7WkAn089XtD4Cs9vxILx/BB5g1gywe4r =JQ1V -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --6TrnltStXW4iwmi0-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 10:48:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7598E106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:48:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gmx@ross.cx) Received: from www81.your-server.de (www81.your-server.de [213.133.104.81]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 271158FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:48:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [92.76.95.179] (helo=michael-think) by www81.your-server.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.74) (envelope-from ) id 1ShewU-0008JI-TM; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:48:51 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: "Peter Jeremy" , "Wojciech Puchar" References: <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:48:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Michael Ross" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (Win32) X-Authenticated-Sender: gmx@ross.cx X-Virus-Scanned: Clear (ClamAV 0.97.3/15065/Thu Jun 21 00:00:04 2012) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:13:12 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , openrc@gentoo.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:48:53 -0000 Am 21.06.2012, 12:22 Uhr, schrieb Wojciech Puchar : > Lets make a summary. > > What functionality would be good to have in FreeBSD that doesn't exist: > > 1) "runlevels" with arbitrary names. runlevel change would start and > stop right services. > 2) exploit startup parallelism. > > > What we do not want to change: > > - file structure which is simple. one file in rc.d/ per service and one > global config file (rc.conf) > - anything else that would make things more complicated. > > > As for > > 1) i propose in rc.conf an option to put "NO", "YES" (or ALL) or > runlevel list for each service or runlevel exclusion list for service. > > > examples: > > service1_enable="YES" > service2_enable="NO" > service3_enable="foolevel maintenance" > service4_enable="YES -foolevel" (or ALL -funkyrunlevel) > > name of default runlevel may be "full" or "multiuser" > > service 1 will always work, service 2 never, service 3 only at runlevels > "foolevel" and "maintenance", service4 with any runlevel except > "foolevel". > > still single rc.conf, not much bigger in practice. > > 2) no change in rc.d/* scripts and rc.conf, but change in scripts. > > > If everyone agree i think i may write this new scripts. Nicely thought. Count me in for testing. Do you think it would be possible to have something along the lines of ifconfig_em0="inet ..." ( default (or unknown) runlevel ) ifconfig_em0_foolevel="inet ..." ( foolevel runlevel ) ifconfig_em0_maintenance="inet ..." ( maintanence runlevel ) too ? Michael From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 11:42:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46DEA1065674 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:42:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gmx@ross.cx) Received: from www81.your-server.de (www81.your-server.de [213.133.104.81]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC158FC14 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:42:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [92.76.95.179] (helo=michael-think) by www81.your-server.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.74) (envelope-from ) id 1Shfm6-00049j-4v; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:42:10 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: "Wojciech Puchar" References: <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:42:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Michael Ross" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (Win32) X-Authenticated-Sender: gmx@ross.cx X-Virus-Scanned: Clear (ClamAV 0.97.3/15065/Thu Jun 21 00:00:04 2012) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:50:28 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , openrc@gentoo.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:42:11 -0000 Am 21.06.2012, 12:56 Uhr, schrieb Wojciech Puchar : >> >> ifconfig_em0="inet ..." ( default (or unknown) runlevel ) >> ifconfig_em0_foolevel="inet ..." ( foolevel runlevel ) >> ifconfig_em0_maintenance="inet ..." ( maintanence runlevel ) >> >> too ? > well - possible BUT... but well. > > this will not require only changing "launcher" script for rc.d/* things > but scripts itself. and extra flag so launcher at runlevel change will > have to rerun network initialization script. > > Can you give an example where you need that? it is a bit strange, > network IP numbers are the same no matter what we do at present. I thought that network would be more complicated. My use case: I maintain a business application consisting of - FreeBSD - several ports - my software and I run this system: a) for development, in a VM on my laptop on my local network; b) for demonstration and customer guided planning, in a VM on my laptop on the customers network, c) for production, on a machine on the customers network, d) for production, in a VM on the laptops of the customers team. The software is the same for all 4, but they differ in services started and in network settings. Having "service profiles" and "network profiles" would allow me to have a convenient method of delegating the whole setup to the application: System boots, no services default network, application starts, detects machine role (devel, demo, server, portable), configures the network and starts the appropriate services. As in: I have a configuration file for the application anyway. This configuration file contains the machine role (devel, demo ...) anyway. If I could send this role as a parameter to "rc mode " and network and services would be configured accordingly, I could have an identical rc.conf over all roles, and I'd consider that a big plus. Michael From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:13:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C7EB1065673 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:13:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2D678FC1D for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:13:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so575478bkv.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:13:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=lKFQum5JAIcOiGAb2RenKPpcEB+wfqSXI07VyjxCaFA=; b=dAO6sVq0TOfvF1lF8i23z86l6s4JFWbG29QPVhjOuujtt+lnfv8I+dyOhElGjJ8D4O JDBATcSI/t4V73BlMRkbDiR8yTLMZvMrOaFu5bhVWo4uxm5doRB8rZUo5Vq563/duVJw j8R8B2LyIXF5/I46aEt4attf1WtTuIlyztb7Kb+TW30m4Ax0zBWqfgVpPNnq8jZWj6nB wv+W173Q4Bjl5ArtdrJcLa1I1sXfbwyXDy5ma6NfM/QtJYMrQIL+lcusCxwQ2HmrZRD0 NrNUSJ/AjfoZdJdJxLnJhP16ft5/rXb18ayqV0zFgUgRVdVB332Tu+9vBs0tNDLvk0pk NfjQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.156.69 with SMTP id v5mr11566026bkw.133.1340280836781; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:13:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:13:56 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Daniel Robbins , David Brodbeck , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:13:58 -0000 On Jun 20, 2012 11:03 PM, "Wojciech Puchar" wrote: >>> >>> scripts, i deleted most of it and put startup sequence in single file. >>> >>> It was plain horror. >> >> >> You would weep if you saw Solaris's SMF, then. Everything is > > > i don't really know what i've seen. i've installed latest solaris demo downloaded from oracle. After nearly an hour of installation over which i had really no control and no real clue what's going on i finally after over 5 minutes got the system booted, logged as root and tried to understand the /etc tree, boot process and gave up really quickly. > just seeing a files and directories (both numerous) of just a kernel binaries was truly enough. > > Now... lets go back to FreeBSD which is controllable and understandable by a human. Your arrogance is astounding. Did you read man hier? Unfamiliarity does not make it incomprehensible. Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:22:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1520D106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9BA28FC18 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4302AB97F; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:22:05 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:07:07 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p13; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <4FDBBACF.9040809@shadowsun.net> <4FDF7693.6010506@freebsd.org> <20120618164632.0c11695b@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <20120618164632.0c11695b@bhuda.mired.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206210807.07123.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:22:05 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Mike Meyer Subject: Re: EFI development tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:06 -0000 On Monday, June 18, 2012 4:46:32 pm Mike Meyer wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:42:27 -0500 > Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > > > On 06/17/12 19:43, Mike Meyer wrote: > > > Eric McCorkle wrote: > > >> The -m32 flag seems to be the culprit; removing it fixes the problem. > > >> This is why I was having problems, as the offsets in EFI_SYSTEM_TABLE > > >> were wrong. > > >> In any case, this is a pretty serious error, and someone should try to > > >> reproduce it and take a look at it. > > > This is a known issue, and had been around for a long time. You can't reliably build 32 bit binaries (what the -m32 flag specifies) on a 64 bit system. The header files (and possibly other things) are wrong. > > > Doesn't look like anyone has opened a PR for it. > > This isn't as complicated as you make it seem. buildworld already does > > it to build the things in lib32 and on some platforms (mips and powerpc) > > the headers are the same for both 32- and 64-bit systems and so -m32 > > works perfectly already. All that is needed on x86 is some further > > header unification, which seems to be in progress. > > It isn't as simple as you make it seem, either. buildworld has been > cross-compiling for years now. But buildworld builds against system > headers/libraries/etc other than those installed on the system, so > making it use the appropriate ones for a cross-compile is a > straightforward modification. Changing a build process that expect to > build against the headers/libraries/etc installed on the system is a > lot more work. Note that all the current boot bits on amd64 use -m32 and work fine. I think this is not nearly as complicated as you are making it out to be. > The header unification has been "in progress" for years. Actually, jilles@ has only been working on that for x86 in the last year or so. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:22:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08C681065675 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3F3D8FC1E for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 41511B94F; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:22:06 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:11:20 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p13; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <201206182256.30535.dcherednik@roshianokatachi.com> In-Reply-To: <201206182256.30535.dcherednik@roshianokatachi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206210811.20427.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Daniil Cherednik Subject: Re: Fast syscalls via sysenter X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:07 -0000 On Monday, June 18, 2012 2:56:30 pm Daniil Cherednik wrote: > Hi! > > I am trying to continue the work started by DavidXu on implemention of fast > syscalls via sysenter/sysexit. > http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/ > I have ported it on FreeBSD9. It looks like it works. Unfortunately I am a > beginner in kernel so I have some questions: > > 1. see http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/kernel.patch > /* > * If %edx was changed, we can not use sysexit, because it > * needs %edx to restore userland %eip. > */ > if (orig_edx != frame.tf_edx) > td->td_pcb->pcb_flags |= PCB_FULLCTX; > > What is the reason why we have to do this additional check? In > http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/sysenter.s > we store %edx to the stack in > pushl %edx /* ring 3 next %eip */ > and we restore the register in > popl %edx /* ring 3 %eip */ Some system calls return two return values (pipe(2)) or return a 64-bit off_t (lseek(2)). Those system calls change %edx's value and need that changed value to make it out to userland. > 2. see http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/sysenter.s > movl PCPU(CURPCB),%esi > call syscall > > Why do we movl PCPU(CURPCB),%esi before calling syscall? syscall is just c- > function. No clue on this one, looks like it is not needed. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:22:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E10ED1065672 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B80B98FC14 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 18808B987; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:22:07 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:12:41 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p13; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <20120620204441.GA63638@jail.io> In-Reply-To: <20120620204441.GA63638@jail.io> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206210812.41137.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Ruslan Bukin Subject: Re: newbus / snd_hdspe(4) trouble X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:08 -0000 On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 4:44:41 pm Ruslan Bukin wrote: > Hi. > > I have the problem with different behavior of snd_hdspe(4) sound card > driver initialization. > > If I load the driver by hand using kldload everything works fine, > but in case of loading driver at boot time (loader.conf) or compile > in kernel the driver can't initialize propertly. > > The snd_hdspe(4) driver is designed to create a pcm child device per > each pair of sound channels. > > The problem is that snd_hdspe loaded normally, but pcm child devices > are not appears. hdspe_pcm_probe() in driver is not called at all. > However snd_hdspe_pcm driver exists in kldstat -v after boot: > 5 1 0xffffffff81377000 a2c8 snd_hdspe.ko (/boot/kernel/snd_hdspe.ko) > Contains modules: > Id Name > 7 hdspe/snd_hdspe_pcm > 6 pci/snd_hdspe > > and I have checked, device_add_child() returns not NULL. > > I played with MODULE_DEPEND as done in snd_hda(4) but no luck. > What can I do to debug the problem? The snd_hdspe driver probably needs to use DRIVER_MODULE_ORDERED() to ensure the other modules in its kld are registered with new-bus before it tries to attach to devices. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:28:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7F82106566B; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:28:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vps.rulingia.com (host-122-100-2-194.octopus.com.au [122.100.2.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37EE18FC1F; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:28:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server.rulingia.com (c220-239-254-65.belrs5.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.254.65]) by vps.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LCSBW4018870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:28:13 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LCS4Ns071994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:28:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5LCS2gm071993; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:28:02 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:28:02 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Brandon Falk Message-ID: <20120621122802.GA71656@server.rulingia.com> References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB761.60406@brandonfa.lk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FDFB761.60406@brandonfa.lk> X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Doug Barton Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:28:19 -0000 --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2012-Jun-18 19:18:57 -0400, Brandon Falk wrote: >As the original poster of this thread, I can also say that Doug is=20 >correct. The issue is not rc, it is the actual kernel boot process.=20 I've videoed my netbook rebooting and gone through the video in slow motion and that definitely doesn't match what I see. >When it comes to a desktop/laptop/simple server and all you do with rc=20 >is configure a static IP, start dbus/hal/sshd, and maybe launch a few=20 >jails... at least 90-98% of the boot process is spent doing the kernel wor= k. In my case, starting from when the screen blanks after a reboot, the breakdown is: 7.4s - POST + BIOS splash (including ~1s waiting for input) 4.4s - boot0/1/2, starting loader (including boot spinners) 1.5s - loading kernel 11.0s - loader countdown 7.0s - kernel startup 32.0s - rc scripts ("mounting root" through VTY login prompt) 5.0s - X + xdm startup Note that the majority of kernel probe time is: 2000ms - atkbd 750ms - ata 500ms - memory probe 500ms - ath0 450ms - psm0 So, in my case, rc scripts account for just under 50% of the total boot time and 50% of the remainder are various "waiting for input" timeouts. The kernel amounts for 10% of the total time and 50% of that is 4 devices. I intend to work through the rc process in more detail to see where I can reduce the elapsed time. --=20 Peter Jeremy --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/jE1IACgkQ/opHv/APuIcTPACeOvNLvajvv3ZlMi1ucx4OckJS 12EAn0ip/rcttNKsMz0KqtdN1NDnHmP6 =HfeA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:47:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0106106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:47:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from islamyasar@yandex.com) Received: from forward17.mail.yandex.net (forward17.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1402::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 271608FC19 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:47:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from web10g.yandex.ru (web10g.yandex.ru [95.108.252.110]) by forward17.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id ADB1F10600BD for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:47:10 +0400 (MSK) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.com; s=mail; t=1340282830; bh=3kWQJjiuio+uZsC52LWLJJ2WU4zOe4KyQZjebJbABkM=; h=From:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Message-Id:Date: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type; b=Wy2BciPyOlO89I/vikHdcSo6LSkTTyXuIRqh/VyZ59+vKJIqfFqlUcHR6UV3o3Ie+ ZZaR7Y2x2Vk8TUP09wwp4pBrOAjZDdqHDRv/innCpqyCWgJXbsKrZpP2k8571SjrYI bQz7Tf9yaZ670t5uZOD1dlxFG45ZT0tzXvE39Jlc= Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by web10g.yandex.ru (Yandex) with ESMTP id 7F29527006F; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:47:10 +0400 (MSK) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.com; s=mail; t=1340282830; bh=3kWQJjiuio+uZsC52LWLJJ2WU4zOe4KyQZjebJbABkM=; h=From:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Message-Id:Date: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type; b=Wy2BciPyOlO89I/vikHdcSo6LSkTTyXuIRqh/VyZ59+vKJIqfFqlUcHR6UV3o3Ie+ ZZaR7Y2x2Vk8TUP09wwp4pBrOAjZDdqHDRv/innCpqyCWgJXbsKrZpP2k8571SjrYI bQz7Tf9yaZ670t5uZOD1dlxFG45ZT0tzXvE39Jlc= Received: from asy62.asy144.tellcom.com.tr (asy62.asy144.tellcom.com.tr [195.214.144.62]) by web10g.yandex.ru with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:47:10 +0400 From: =?utf-8?B?WWHFn2FyIMSwc2xhbQ==?= To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <506061340282830@web10g.yandex.ru> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:47:10 +0300 X-Mailer: Yamail [ http://yandex.ru ] 5.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:11:04 +0000 Subject: libmagic issue X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:47:12 -0000 Hi all, I m using libmagic for my application on FreeBSD. I have some problems. libmagic doenst šreturn properly mimetype of file. For example : system is FreeBSD 8.2-RELEASE . file --mime-type example.7z ----> ššapplication/octet-stream file example.7z ----> š7-zip archive data, version 0.3 šššand when i try to test same file on linux (ubuntu 12.04) : file --mime-type example.7z š----> ššapplication/x-7z-compressed file example.7z š----> 7-zip archive data, version 0.3 why does not šFreeBSD behave like linux and if i need to update magic.mgc , how can i do that ? i need the result application/x-7z-compressed šafter i type as command file --mime-type example.7z.. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks ... I.Yasar From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 14:35:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7E571065673 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:35:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A9D8FC14 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:35:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LEZVBV003229; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:35:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LEZUNW003226; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:35:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:35:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: =?UTF-8?Q?Ya=C5=9Far_=C4=B0slam?= In-Reply-To: <506061340282830@web10g.yandex.ru> Message-ID: References: <506061340282830@web10g.yandex.ru> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="2456600518-18123994-1340289331=:3170" X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:35:31 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: libmagic issue X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:35:35 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --2456600518-18123994-1340289331=:3170 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=koi8-r; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > file --mime-type example.7z š----> ššapplication/x-7z-compressed > file example.7z š----> 7-zip archive data, version 0.3 > > why does not šFreeBSD behave like linux you answered it yourself just below. > and if i need to update magic.mgc , how can i do that ? i need the edit/update /usr/share/misc/magic and use file -C to rebuild magic.mgc file. then post your added/fixed/updated entries using send-pr tool so it will be included. --2456600518-18123994-1340289331=:3170-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 15:20:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 041C31065672 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:20:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D4768FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:20:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LFKUSZ003427 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:20:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LFKU4C003424 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:20:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:20:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:20:30 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: MAGIC with HP KVM - someone will help? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:20:34 -0000 no ideas? On Wed, 20 Jun 2012, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > i am not sure if it is related at all to FreeBSD, but maybe someone here know > the solution. Anyway it is somewhat FreeBSD related for sure as you will see > from description. > > > I bought used IP 16 port KVM connected to few servers, in between them > FreeBSD 8 server running on Dell PowerEdge T110. > > As this KVM have PS/2 connectors to keyboard and mouse i added USB to > dual-PS/2 converter. > > So: > > 1)when KVM is used locally with plugged monitor, keyboard and mouse > everything is fine. > > 2)when it is used remotely before FreeBSD is booted or after successful > multiuser boot everything is fine. > > 3)when kernel boots and waits for GELI password, and i SLOOOWLY type it (at > most one keypress per second) over remote KVM connection - everything is > fine. > > 4)when i type the password faster keyboard locks. you have to turn off server > and on again to recover. > > Please don't laught from 3 and 4 as it is true, tested several times. The > problem happens ONLY at FreeBSD but before mounting root, when geli ask for > password. > > And it is serious as ability to enter geli password is the main reason for > this KVM to be installed! And really not forgetting to type password very > slowly isn't easy. > > Any idea what it is and how to fix it. It really looks like magic. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 15:42:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1847106566C; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:42:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from hapkido.dreamhost.com (hapkido.dreamhost.com [66.33.216.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 943D88FC0A; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:42:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from homiemail-a26.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdcbhh.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.177]) by hapkido.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A800B1856; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a26.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a26.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93DD7B8072; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lab (ip72-219-240-45.dc.dc.cox.net [72.219.240.45]) (Authenticated sender: trhodes@fbsdsecure.org) by homiemail-a26.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 2F026B800A; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:42:00 -0400 From: Tom Rhodes To: Daniel Gerzo Message-Id: <20120621114200.23ff599b.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20120621171006.Horde.Rzi7VU-oyn9P4zlOtE-CvdA@horde.syscare.sk> References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120621171006.Horde.Rzi7VU-oyn9P4zlOtE-CvdA@horde.syscare.sk> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 1.0.6 (GTK+ 1.2.10; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, trhodes@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:42:22 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:10:06 +0200 Daniel Gerzo wrote: > Hello, >=20 >=20 > Just picking a random message related to this issue. Maybe Tom might =20 > update us a bit with the status of his project ;-) Oh, put me on the spot, thanks Daniel! :) >=20 > Cit=E1t Wojciech Puchar : > >>> - monitor running services and restart them if they crash > > > > should not be done, or at least not default. >=20 > http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2010-10-2010-12.html#FreeBSD-Se= rvices-Control-(fsc) > http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2012-01-2012-03.html#FreeBSD-Se= rvices-Control >=20 So, I'm not following the -hackers list (too much email, too little personal time); however, I did take a few moments to familarize myself with the conversation. First off, my project was an attempt to pull what I liked from SMF without some of the annoying parts. I hadn't found it overly complicated, but very SYSV like (for very obvious reasons). At point, I wondered how interesting it would be to replace rc or augment it in some way that we could have several of the very interesting ideas that are floating around out there. Like parallel start up, control of base and ports rc, control of inetd and xinet services, and a quick way to get their status. But it was a passing interest that, without some additional hands, will never turn into a real project. Though, my services control stuff is in the ports collection now (see sysutils/fsc) but that is a post-startup mechanism. Sorry I don't really have more to contribute right now, thanks, -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 15:10:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95A6F106566C; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:10:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danger@rulez.sk) Received: from services.syscare.sk (services.syscare.sk [188.40.39.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6868FC0A; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:10:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from services.syscare.sk (services [188.40.39.36]) by services.syscare.sk (Postfix) with ESMTP id F21E5106BDB; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:10:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rulez.sk Received: from services.syscare.sk ([188.40.39.36]) by services.syscare.sk (services.rulez.sk [188.40.39.36]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BkpocRgslwo5; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:10:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hosting.syscare.sk (hosting [188.40.39.37]) by services.syscare.sk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BAE5106B9D; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:10:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bband-dyn50.95-103-49.t-com.sk (bband-dyn50.95-103-49.t-com.sk [95.103.49.50]) by horde.syscare.sk (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:10:07 +0200 Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:10:06 +0200 Message-ID: <20120621171006.Horde.Rzi7VU-oyn9P4zlOtE-CvdA@horde.syscare.sk> From: Daniel Gerzo To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H4 (5.0.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:07:06 +0000 Cc: trhodes@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:10:18 -0000 Hello, Just picking a random message related to this issue. Maybe Tom might update us a bit with the status of his project ;-) Citát Wojciech Puchar : >>> - monitor running services and restart them if they crash > > should not be done, or at least not default. http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2010-10-2010-12.html#FreeBSD-Services-Control-(fsc) http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2012-01-2012-03.html#FreeBSD-Services-Control -- S pozdravom / Best regards Daniel Gerzo From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:15:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E6D6106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:15:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@dataix.net) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE3C48FC12 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:15:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so750417yen.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:15:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=SJeR7hZwjyNsrBNx9P2gGYi9pXHlwhugS6Tg4E5ZWBg=; b=UMuAU7ohLwF15WLvP5xbAeBKp7cE2Avz2+YFcxs6bsEXPRMr7I2B573avLD3yT8A9I eLVEzAFUrxGXySgWwTbkeHWpif1VE6MzKGL6fjJ1DDAM+KQoXxlERCDJ8SM0MOc60wE2 oWVGYd/I3l55yg5TJOU2+IW/HlhVtHEg0VTb0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-gm-message-state; bh=SJeR7hZwjyNsrBNx9P2gGYi9pXHlwhugS6Tg4E5ZWBg=; b=ZXW+Okzi2fYG9juknmJ0ugq9RwMDWD62bl9UfMyO1avpywloKcgkTmY1CylT3+Z4T0 eLC3fIlumrJvxnin6wX0daLfarW0lBPiwGnnKKbYhpOC7A0Wx7NSrsTqWfWqJ1ONJiNT QSB39o6skUNy+ahsd9hPfGdXr9rSVEbM3LIBS4VSCTlKh62efNOhbmHwv4hiUZ4YBU+e 5ybMgxnTfckLQ5zCn/IZd7syZub0ICwdwLfQqjRtKS/dAytgpGfEH+y6uF8J2XjHykvU CZ3BlcI1oGB442gjNFcvp6JctJ3qXc6iCqWV1Z6FP7HVpI9to6giR2u5Ih56MGLhVVOS ZzRA== Received: by 10.50.179.72 with SMTP id de8mr8172589igc.23.1340295318177; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (75-128-120-86.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com. [75.128.120.86]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dc7sm18213463igc.13.2012.06.21.09.15.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LGFFmZ094084 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:15:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Received: (from jh@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5LGFErc094083; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:15:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:15:13 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal To: Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <20120621161513.GA88762@DataIX.net> References: <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnaiNuBfcL45M4ULkpKsaiDxbduCgXDUcs7yJPuSPoxMizkIMdUFTri4ZNbTAiKaE2ZLfAQ Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , openrc@gentoo.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:15:19 -0000 --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:22:08PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > Lets make a summary. >=20 > What functionality would be good to have in FreeBSD that doesn't exist: >=20 > 1) "runlevels" with arbitrary names. runlevel change would start and stop= =20 > right services. > 2) exploit startup parallelism. >=20 >=20 > What we do not want to change: >=20 > - file structure which is simple. one file in rc.d/ per service and one= =20 > global config file (rc.conf) > - anything else that would make things more complicated. >=20 >=20 > As for >=20 > 1) i propose in rc.conf an option to put "NO", "YES" (or ALL) or runlevel= =20 > list for each service or runlevel exclusion list for service. >=20 >=20 > examples: >=20 > service1_enable=3D"YES" > service2_enable=3D"NO" > service3_enable=3D"foolevel maintenance" > service4_enable=3D"YES -foolevel" (or ALL -funkyrunlevel) >=20 > name of default runlevel may be "full" or "multiuser" >=20 > service 1 will always work, service 2 never, service 3 only at runlevels= =20 > "foolevel" and "maintenance", service4 with any runlevel except=20 > "foolevel". >=20 > still single rc.conf, not much bigger in practice. >=20 > 2) no change in rc.d/* scripts and rc.conf, but change in scripts. >=20 >=20 > If everyone agree i think i may write this new scripts. Sorry but I completely disagree here. Why ? Because do one thing and do one thing well. What do you mean ? service_enable=3D"YES" - enables the service ... IT IS NOT TO ALSO ADD MORE CRAP TO. Try something like the following... service_runlevels=3D"1 2 3 4 5" And provide a way to say... allservice_runlevels=3D"3 4 5" which would basically state that every service runs under runlevel 3,4,5 unless specifically stated. Lets not bastardize this overly simple process by modifying already existing variables. Add a framework to coexist and teach rc to respect and comply with it. current rc scripts would not have to be modified if done correctly as well. You can short circuit the _enable=3D vars early on by just inspecting its _runlevel=3D var... Same thing could be had for a service profile script. nothing in etc/rc.d/ would have to be modified. --=20 - (2^(N-1)) --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJP40iRAAoJEBSh2Dr1DU7WZZwH/3M+IMVRyWL7iFKjm7V2MONg HHOzUfLfbVZQB0UIkUJTKeIm7CKAcQjMVXosbu8x22fYwVRBOKPOdfWy2UbQvipx Gz38AYiUAt3n9Yr2smPP6+17DL+PHeqXiUaFkohBa3RoPdFVzyvO1HpB84MGKufm LtA8awDzULSbDWB/44UpYR3uCdT0wPkkfhzkE1AiEwVijydAEkv/R+ZJH4mal37a 1fH2DoHfApTq5BICi4K7Ko3HE17TobnqKPN9WcUdBgY/mdvMPCP8Qblywqb2V2Nt rlHebCRT6Tm+NWC/x/kLj/fQvyXu2/faslurEWrKL1sFsTKq7DnCp2fIO++I1ig= =n1YJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:19:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AC2C106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:19:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E520C8FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:19:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LGIu7l003746; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:18:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LGItWO003743; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:18:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:18:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Jason Hellenthal In-Reply-To: <20120621161513.GA88762@DataIX.net> Message-ID: References: <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> <20120621161513.GA88762@DataIX.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:18:57 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , openrc@gentoo.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:19:02 -0000 > > Try something like the following... > > service_runlevels="1 2 3 4 5" > > And provide a way to say... Well - i agree with you. just invent a syntax to define service runlevels as "all except ...". From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:19:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29615106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:19:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A6578FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:19:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so933718bkv.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:19:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=JLeNBw6c+/UK7SS6L1u/6P0TFmXHCsRCPWpw7RS0EVk=; b=0B1ZgRs/dsw9iYrHUc+pPECBIQsZet315x+Rp9RBMLXGDrnIJAb28xgJogonHOQM69 7mNaQgcKF+uEBu4HhNxPAAhTT3sFl0+9vd4Qd+/xKvTf6dlHl7Zovf/vy2ITjMzGKp5W ArxsRN5Ir6Kv2iCwt/S1R0rTRjr4hG8uPhbFBTscADZ07aFmXbVJdXzXW0FT3Zz3b/6O hZQMUZu2wEvMrh3wgR6UsMzItBRxFH7QkHx5dSHu5AWU0GyGChjlHa1GRgewZ0LU/+xu UWfaaIAHc2S31T4Mb3zXGlDbeVrP9p0SHVe/BCW0P2hv93DaZuJEa07EmpgYViS1vZyI paiA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.145.89 with SMTP id c25mr58070bkv.5.1340295567474; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:19:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120621161513.GA88762@DataIX.net> References: <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> <20120621161513.GA88762@DataIX.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:19:27 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Jason Hellenthal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , openrc@gentoo.org, "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:19:29 -0000 On Jun 21, 2012 5:15 PM, "Jason Hellenthal" wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:22:08PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > Lets make a summary. > > > > What functionality would be good to have in FreeBSD that doesn't exist: > > > > 1) "runlevels" with arbitrary names. runlevel change would start and stop > > right services. > > 2) exploit startup parallelism. > > > > > > What we do not want to change: > > > > - file structure which is simple. one file in rc.d/ per service and one > > global config file (rc.conf) > > - anything else that would make things more complicated. > > > > > > As for > > > > 1) i propose in rc.conf an option to put "NO", "YES" (or ALL) or runlevel > > list for each service or runlevel exclusion list for service. > > > > > > examples: > > > > service1_enable="YES" > > service2_enable="NO" > > service3_enable="foolevel maintenance" > > service4_enable="YES -foolevel" (or ALL -funkyrunlevel) > > > > name of default runlevel may be "full" or "multiuser" > > > > service 1 will always work, service 2 never, service 3 only at runlevels > > "foolevel" and "maintenance", service4 with any runlevel except > > "foolevel". > > > > still single rc.conf, not much bigger in practice. > > > > 2) no change in rc.d/* scripts and rc.conf, but change in scripts. > > > > > > If everyone agree i think i may write this new scripts. > > Sorry but I completely disagree here. Why ? > > Because do one thing and do one thing well. What do you mean ? He means the UNIX philosophy. http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch01s06.html Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:20:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0878F106566C; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:20:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 597F48FC08; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:20:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LGKixJ003761; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:20:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LGKivM003758; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:20:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:20:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Daniel Gerzo In-Reply-To: <20120621171006.Horde.Rzi7VU-oyn9P4zlOtE-CvdA@horde.syscare.sk> Message-ID: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120621171006.Horde.Rzi7VU-oyn9P4zlOtE-CvdA@horde.syscare.sk> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:20:44 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, trhodes@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:20:48 -0000 >> should not be done, or at least not default. > > http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2010-10-2010-12.html#FreeBSD-Services-Control-(fsc) > http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2012-01-2012-03.html#FreeBSD-Services-Control separate and optional program. that's acceptable, except i have no idea why this fscadm enable/disable. editing config is enough. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:40:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1FA9106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:40:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@dataix.net) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 613038FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:40:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnm2 with SMTP id m2so779195ggn.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:40:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=pRX2wpAwHf7P3h8y4UVkeSO1NVqBssfcEJ779Q9RnT8=; b=SWZJEK361jhChIqzH0/xCv70M1Z+tXwMlt4d2NSVkYUqFt87f/snSBPMe9n/lwCXpR ZSM95epm2J/gmkD1QByrOY6wbBE4Kxxv64THLJonNacq+00p0v6BYYbvTILf4B8FhPrc uQlU3zoj6GqbEqWtWGG4rZoZ+caOLpoTfew+4= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-gm-message-state; bh=pRX2wpAwHf7P3h8y4UVkeSO1NVqBssfcEJ779Q9RnT8=; b=eXTcDans5Idwon+DfXYHgpcMF9qoAgxWiA39OWLAR0D+IlE8pBOLwUKWduIw0tQLe+ qQan0RlzOmPvsSekGlcFxFrocCbLxpu8fZfV+c4YqnrUdTi/t62yXOsWi6L0DLI1gquz NyyQgFIHXS9RsI5WOJ6O76IuOJRWESZufrLsKJalOsBvO1HY9StRiUjhnzW+27Z5iI+o jzJCnHrphpxlPbmOAbBlXwEP9Vjo0Z7AI9GeUblJ2sNly1x4PbC1SBWaIYSJ3FBo9jxZ ivFCzhi5kOREYRGioFVRcPBalNMcS6s90crANEHYBdTqsN6eCH5ypaCKbWzEu7aSMwIC xqHg== Received: by 10.50.135.1 with SMTP id po1mr8082483igb.67.1340296840340; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (75-128-120-86.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com. [75.128.120.86]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id wo8sm33867799igb.17.2012.06.21.09.40.39 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LGebcB095735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:40:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Received: (from jh@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5LGebYY095734; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:40:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:40:37 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal To: Chris Rees Message-ID: <20120621164037.GB88762@DataIX.net> References: <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> <20120621161513.GA88762@DataIX.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnVpKuc0O8ZCjMLvFovcEYmXkOwxRF2eAgiklHNBlB+U3hILDDRrPVDHnVcZq4P/4Yk/q9K Cc: Wojciech Puchar , openrc@gentoo.org, "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:40:42 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 05:19:27PM +0100, Chris Rees wrote: > On Jun 21, 2012 5:15 PM, "Jason Hellenthal" wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:22:08PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > Lets make a summary. > > > > > > What functionality would be good to have in FreeBSD that doesn't exist: > > > > > > 1) "runlevels" with arbitrary names. runlevel change would start and > stop > > > right services. > > > 2) exploit startup parallelism. > > > > > > > > > What we do not want to change: > > > > > > - file structure which is simple. one file in rc.d/ per service and one > > > global config file (rc.conf) > > > - anything else that would make things more complicated. > > > > > > > > > As for > > > > > > 1) i propose in rc.conf an option to put "NO", "YES" (or ALL) or > runlevel > > > list for each service or runlevel exclusion list for service. > > > > > > > > > examples: > > > > > > service1_enable="YES" > > > service2_enable="NO" > > > service3_enable="foolevel maintenance" > > > service4_enable="YES -foolevel" (or ALL -funkyrunlevel) > > > > > > name of default runlevel may be "full" or "multiuser" > > > > > > service 1 will always work, service 2 never, service 3 only at runlevels > > > "foolevel" and "maintenance", service4 with any runlevel except > > > "foolevel". > > > > > > still single rc.conf, not much bigger in practice. > > > > > > 2) no change in rc.d/* scripts and rc.conf, but change in scripts. > > > > > > > > > If everyone agree i think i may write this new scripts. > > > > Sorry but I completely disagree here. Why ? > > > > Because do one thing and do one thing well. What do you mean ? > > He means the UNIX philosophy. > > http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch01s06.html > Thanks.. I didn't have a link at hand for that. -- - (2^(N-1)) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:09:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A25FB106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:09:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E448175CA2; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:09:01 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FE3552D.9090202@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:09:01 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Jeremy References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB761.60406@brandonfa.lk> <20120621122802.GA71656@server.rulingia.com> In-Reply-To: <20120621122802.GA71656@server.rulingia.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:09:47 -0000 On 06/21/2012 05:28 AM, Peter Jeremy wrote: > 32.0s - rc scripts ("mounting root" through VTY login prompt) I think that there is some confusion about what I wrote originally, so let me clarify. From the time that /etc/rc starts through the time that the prompt appears almost all of the time is spent waiting for the services to start. There is very little time spent IN the rc scripts themselves (barring something that is poorly written of course). It's also worth noting that because the time spent in this phase is heavily dependent on what services you're starting, different people are going to have vastly different experiences. So the only way to improve the time from /etc/rc to "usable system" (whatever that means for the user) is to see what we can parallelize. The problem is that this is a really hard problem. :) And as someone pointed out, changing from a serial to a parallel process is going to be disruptive because it will uncover the inadequately specified dependencies that we have now which are hidden by the serial process ... and that's just the base. The over 800 rc.d scripts in the ports are (sadly) more wrong than right when it comes to specifying their rcorder stuff. This is mostly a holdover from the old days when the local scripts were all run in the same spot regardless of what was in PROVIDE/REQUIRE. Ever since I brought the local scripts into the overall rcorder (over 6 years ago now) we've been refining this, but dealing with this issue has to be something that is carefully considered in the planning for any proposed modifications. Personally, if we were going to undergo the amount of work it would take to handle parallelization of the existing rc.d framework; I'd rather put that work into designing and building a better system that does other things we need in addition to booting faster. To that end I like the direction that the thread is going in terms of discussing what a new system should have. I have some thoughts about that, but I'd like to let others talk for a while first. Doug From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:45:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C288106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:45:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ECB18FC12 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:45:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnm2 with SMTP id m2so862418ggn.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:45:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=1D2B4TuS9z23e5vDpKgtJbq6JE7hHK46Oh10LR68vUA=; b=jInQMB8e0Kk5bprtVHcX6A7BTMt3hNT66kJjsv6H0yepvfN6qlcPKLcWv6QbYYdso7 0HMfatvIYgm1hvQ+ukxqgJWKYCA+x2bMgD855R+9Qkdb6iy8BOj58ixU1Vxwt77tk3qf wADIrcUvOT/tI9wW6bLi13PTD2XssWf+cq3EEWG3DoUCx0DhvrnmXHIIA9hHZ0LIASn4 9Pig0IdBymGHnnL4jXi6FLZjtVhQbKsRuiT7LPxvs/w0KVRxkAAhnZ+fkmgC6fB2hGYj WrPivgW3itBKV4w2gF9uzwi0Lj7ZSZNjo4TRdRbg/lB6jqSnTA3fcu8w7nU26Gxih5Qe JHMg== Received: by 10.50.190.163 with SMTP id gr3mr8545656igc.22.1340300750450; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bhuda.mired.org (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id rd8sm34187908igb.3.2012.06.21.10.45.49 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:45:45 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Message-ID: <20120621134545.5e42b50e@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: References: <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmDp82q5Z6/x/tYA4GULYR+mD2B1TviL2vfwhVhzlH9weN5z1GFxuxoyjXoJaLegvpkH+mm Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:45:52 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:08 +0200 (CEST) Wojciech Puchar wrote: > Lets make a summary. > > What functionality would be good to have in FreeBSD that doesn't exist: > > 1) "runlevels" with arbitrary names. runlevel change would start and stop > right services. With a couple of additions: - it should be easy to see which services are on at a given runlevel. - it should be easy to see which runlevels a service is on at. > 2) exploit startup parallelism. > > > What we do not want to change: > > - file structure which is simple. one file in rc.d/ per service and one > global config file (rc.conf) > - anything else that would make things more complicated. > > > As for > > 1) i propose in rc.conf an option to put "NO", "YES" (or ALL) or runlevel > list for each service or runlevel exclusion list for service. > > > examples: > > service1_enable="YES" > service2_enable="NO" > service3_enable="foolevel maintenance" > service4_enable="YES -foolevel" (or ALL -funkyrunlevel) Using two symbols to indicate negation - one to start, and then one on each runlevel - is overkill. There's not a use case where you have a keyword YES or ALL and then runlevels that you start. Personally, I'd restrict YES/NO/ALL to being single symbols, and use "NOT runlevels" to mean "All but these". A bare "NOT" should get the same treatment as a YES/NO/ALL with text after it. > name of default runlevel may be "full" or "multiuser" > > service 1 will always work, service 2 never, service 3 only at runlevels > "foolevel" and "maintenance", service4 with any runlevel except > "foolevel". > > still single rc.conf, not much bigger in practice. But each line has become more complicated, going from a simple on/off setting to a small language that can even have errors (like "foolevel -barlevel"). This violates the second thing on your list of things we don't want to change. Further, while you can easily tell what runlevels a service is on at, you can't easily tell what services are on at a given runlevel - that begs for a tool to be written. If you instead violate the requirement that we stick with a single rc.conf, the conf files can continue to have the same contents. For instance, create rc.conf.d/. If rc.conf exists, we just ignore the directory. Otherwise, use rc.conf/. Or maybe rc.conf gets is a link to rc.conf/default. The downside is that it adding a service now becomes harder - you have to edit each runlevel script instead of just one. This also begs for a tool to be written. Given the choice between having a file that wants a tool for reading, or one that wants a tool for writing, I'll take the latter. > 2) no change in rc.d/* scripts and rc.conf, but change in scripts. That's also true for my proposal. http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 18:01:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED27E106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:01:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2636A8FC12 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:01:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LI1gvm009409; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:01:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LI1fNd009406; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:01:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:01:41 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mike Meyer In-Reply-To: <20120621134545.5e42b50e@bhuda.mired.org> Message-ID: References: <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> <20120621134545.5e42b50e@bhuda.mired.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:01:42 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:01:46 -0000 >> 1) "runlevels" with arbitrary names. runlevel change would start and stop >> right services. > > With a couple of additions: > - it should be easy to see which services are on at a given runlevel. already proposed in rc.conf > - it should be easy to see which runlevels a service is on at. same. >> service2_enable="NO" >> service3_enable="foolevel maintenance" >> service4_enable="YES -foolevel" (or ALL -funkyrunlevel) > > Using two symbols to indicate negation - one to start, and then one on > each runlevel - is overkill. There's not a use case where you have a better method already proposed by jhellenthal@dataix.net > But each line has become more complicated, going from a simple on/off > setting to a small language that can even have errors (like "foolevel > -barlevel"). This violates the second thing on your list of things we see above. > The downside is that it adding a service now becomes harder - you have > to edit each runlevel script instead of just one. i unable to understand this sentence. rc.d scripts would be exactly as they currently are. extra data in rc.conf would define "runlevels" at which they are active. doing this as currently (_enable=YES) would mean every "runlevel". my point is that if you put new startup system in place of old, nothing will change with your existing rc.conf! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 18:22:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63CBC106567A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:22:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0165B8FC12 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:22:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnm2 with SMTP id m2so911894ggn.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:22:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=16AtpWnzJiKN8x8TM0AKoOVD3fTwFqFVGL86guQofD0=; b=TauezDKojRuuGAaJWdm4j1ZhDjRj+cOuY0346r/X84M4/u5bammQpCY8bTTx7+yPPg O4UOSmmcIqK3iHsOgamLoPF3it2bI0HLmCusnbn6cXbjMHaQqGd5o6RoZ2GCBecOYT1N la4w4eDP/2BJgtSU8HWacNfRV62t0fZPjCGsN+rpKRSXETedzjyIo8Ece+HB+JGXM7IP J/OpqVPAXv8Rr8spro7m5q+jWuoxjVgRhKQB59UHhd2YMs6JdKphjEzCbTm0SR6E1b+F 4tmpo3N9tekVhnt9vTBKbrgPojphr0EfmvTXEvrnCKQI27okkmxrJKPeAF2CqaL/1g3C ZZ3Q== Received: by 10.50.42.165 with SMTP id p5mr8566454igl.68.1340302946168; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bhuda.mired.org (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id xs8sm34321961igb.15.2012.06.21.11.22.25 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:22:20 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <20120621142220.4d4302c8@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: References: <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> <20120621134545.5e42b50e@bhuda.mired.org> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlNKt4abvuVYFlyb1aTFgAuyVqzVa/nVofJ5pUpbZJU319m/9v89WDGqn7cMqmKtJmJGwQF Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:22:27 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:01:41 +0200 (CEST) Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >> 1) "runlevels" with arbitrary names. runlevel change would start and stop > >> right services. > > > > With a couple of additions: > > - it should be easy to see which services are on at a given runlevel. > > already proposed in rc.conf > > > - it should be easy to see which runlevels a service is on at. > same. No, harder. > > The downside is that it adding a service now becomes harder - you have > > to edit each runlevel script instead of just one. > i unable to understand this sentence. rc.d scripts would be exactly as > they currently are. Because you're taking it out of context. You removed the counter proposal above it. > extra data in rc.conf would define "runlevels" at which they are active. > doing this as currently (_enable=YES) would mean every "runlevel". Not in the counter proposal. > my point is that if you put new startup system in place of old, nothing > will change with your existing rc.conf! Also true in the counter proposal. http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 18:26:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C04106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:26:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 423DF8FC12 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:26:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LIPxsp014327; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:25:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LIPxLw014321; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:25:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:25:59 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mike Meyer In-Reply-To: <20120621142220.4d4302c8@bhuda.mired.org> Message-ID: References: <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> <20120621134545.5e42b50e@bhuda.mired.org> <20120621142220.4d4302c8@bhuda.mired.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:25:59 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:26:03 -0000 z> >> my point is that if you put new startup system in place of old, nothing >> will change with your existing rc.conf! > > Also true in the counter proposal. > so i miss something about the counterproposal. please point me out From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 18:30:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CCB3106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:30:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brodbd@uw.edu) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3B438FC21 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:30:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so2749622pbb.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:30:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=ej/h9oWYQEMKBfw+PSS9zuvFyD+jrFqYciE+VTlXAHo=; b=VXn3VaAHSQPxXa9WF+eutfNLLP+X4bo7Jl2gkgq97LA4rUWXN5xEVGoXfRyycGwz0v 06rP5UX5kwaosYqYhJT5kHHFwRG6xOfEe6tP9hMoRf28PNxFdWOWAz/QFFRS/y5wTOaG nbLNwrpgAJmyILJv14+pdfcjB3PuwxXrpiYRMoDSF9+F48KqO9GyYXOH1Ttn/wUHhisj vKtGZEqZ4FhJ8GYzd5Pe+HhJ/xqzVDZzbIHBHcdQlgGviihr1fBQB0ABYAUU5vcqz3Ou 77wVz53xpiKNScImkLTPe56PO4oJiUO7/em5mO8lIWNyxuZlkmfxVdp3C9oZUTW3TYEL ZswQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.230.68 with SMTP id sw4mr709683pbc.142.1340303446591; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.36.202 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:30:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:30:46 -0700 Message-ID: From: David Brodbeck To: Chris Rees Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlpsEumqrtx2rYzDkXdhPxLMM/S6cCYGDkUOdvwE523vFksYmTusefvbJxiZhbTUr5HNyof Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:30:47 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 5:13 AM, Chris Rees wrote: > Your arrogance is astounding. > > Did you read man hier? Unfamiliarity does not make it incomprehensible. There's more going on than just unfamiliarity. Earlier versions were unfamiliar to someone used to Linux or BSD, but easy to understand because they were mostly configured by flat files. Modern Solaris has deliberately moved away from this and toward opaque configuration tools that modify stuff you aren't supposed to touch, behind the scenes. It's a bit like Windows that way; it's made it easier to manage if you're doing something pre-configured (like starting/stopping an existing service), but if you want to do something custom you have to do a *lot* of digging to figure out how to make it work. Some of the new stuff (like NWAM network configuration) is not even configurable without a GUI. --=20 David Brodbeck System Administrator,=A0Linguistics University of Washington From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 18:35:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C971065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:35:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 895378FC1B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:35:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LIZGdu015964; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:35:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LIZGp3015960; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:35:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:35:16 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: David Brodbeck In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:35:17 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Chris Rees Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:35:20 -0000 > manage if you're doing something pre-configured (like > starting/stopping an existing service), but if you want to do > something custom you have to do a *lot* of digging to figure out how > to make it work. Some of the new stuff (like NWAM network > configuration) is not even configurable without a GUI. Fortunately FreeBSD is not solaris so we shouldn't care about how solaris do this. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 20:29:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0917106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:29:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com (mailout-us.gmx.com [74.208.5.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 872248FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:29:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 22279 invoked by uid 0); 21 Jun 2012 20:29:29 -0000 Received: from 67.206.186.139 by rms-us013.v300.gmx.net with HTTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:29:26 -0400 From: "Dieter BSD" Message-ID: <20120621202927.303410@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Authenticated: #74169980 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GMX-UID: cOGRb+EX3zOlNR3dAHAhTUN+IGRvb0BL Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: (no subject) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:29:36 -0000 user.vdr writes: >>> Recording doesn't require any compression unless you are transcoding >>> in real-time. There's no difference between recording ATSC, NTSC, PAL, >>> etc, and it's actually irrelevant what the stream is. >> >> This is incorrect. ATSC is compressed before broadcast, so >> you receive the data already compresed.  NTSC and PAL are >> broadcast in analog. The tuner performs A-to-D which gives >> an uncompressed data stream.  Have fun trying to store that. >> As a practical matter, you have to compress the data in real time. >> Some, not all, tuners include hardware compression. > > With very very very few exceptions, all analog NTSC broadcasts have > been switched to digital, by the FCC mandated deadline of June 12, > 2009. As long as there remain some NTSC broadcasts, there might be some that you wish to watch.  That's why I wrote: >>>> You'll need to know if you have any NTSC (analog) stations you >>>> care about or if everything is ATSC (digital). Aryeh may or may not have any NTSC stations of interest. Given "we are using a broadcast signal only [current US {NYC} standards]" I rather doubt that Aryeh has any PAL stations to worry about. > You absolutely do NOT have to reencode a stream I did not say anything about RE-encoding anything.  Only about encoding/compressing the high bandwidth datastream the tuner generates from NTSC.  And to be clear, this only applies to NTSC, not to ATSC. > Tuners do NOT provide raw audio/video to the system in any case. http://corona.homeunix.net/cx88wiki/Overview/RawVideo From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 20:51:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99AD7106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:51:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cjr@cruwe.de) Received: from cruwe.de (cruwe.de [188.40.164.98]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1F0C8FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:51:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from cruwe.de (unknown [127.0.0.4]) by cruwe.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B876D0CB for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:42:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: by cruwe.de (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 1D665D0CA; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:42:03 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on mail.cruwe.de X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from dijkstra.cruwe.de (p57BDF440.dip.t-dialin.net [87.189.244.64]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by cruwe.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ABA74D0C7 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:42:00 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:41:48 +0200 From: "Christopher J. Ruwe" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120621224148.36ed4c7e@dijkstra.cruwe.de> In-Reply-To: <20120617060135.GA7986@zim.MIT.EDU> References: <20120530204502.5cab974c@desktop.pc> <20120617060135.GA7986@zim.MIT.EDU> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd9.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/hjAXrYF=iPT0aT3.B3p0CXA"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV on mail.cruwe.de using ClamSMTP Subject: Re: TeXLive merge into FreeBSD ports tree - FreeBSD project idea X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:51:49 -0000 --Sig_/hjAXrYF=iPT0aT3.B3p0CXA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 02:01:35 -0400 David Schultz wrote: > On Wed, May 30, 2012, Aldis Berjoza wrote: > > On Sat, 26 May 2012 22:45:37 +1200 > > Sam Lin wrote: > >=20 > > > Hi FreeBSD fellows, > > >=20 > > > Those who are using LaTeX on FreeBSD must know that tetex has been > > > discontinued years ago and that TeXLive is now recommended, > > > however TeXLive has never been merged in the ports tree on > > > FreeBSD and that tetex is still used on FreeBSD ports. Although > > > there have been some "customized" work so that FreeBSD users can > > > install and use TeXLive on FreeBSD machine (for example, > > > http://code.google.com/p/freebsd-texlive/wiki/Installing), this is > > > quite confusing and may still cause conflict on the system side > > > when using or maintaining it. > > >=20 > > > There has also been years of gossips that a Japanese developer > > > Hiroki Sato (hrs@freebsd) has been working on this matter for the > > > last years and therefore the FreeBSD admin panel don't want > > > anyone else to work on this and merge it into the ports tree. > > >=20 > > > I actually contacted Hiroki Sato in the beginning of last year > > > (2011) regarding this, and in his reply he said that there had > > > been several technical issues but most of them had been solved > > > and almost ready to merge into the port tree, and that he was > > > planning to go forward after the 8.2/7.4 releases (one or two > > > weeks later from that time stage) are out. However, more than a > > > year has passed since then and still nothing happened. I tried to > > > contact him several times after that (email, tweet, etc) but > > > haven't heard anything back from him at all. > > >=20 > > > Is TeXLive really going to be merged into the FreeBSD ports tree > > > as Hiroki Sato mentioned previously? Or is this just a myth?? > > >=20 > > > I am now thinking that this should be put into the "FreeBSD > > > Project ideas List" [http://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage]. > > >=20 > > > Regards, > > > Sam > > > > >=20 > > Hey, Sam! > >=20 > > I which TeXLive would be merged in FreeBSD ports. Romain is doing > > great job maintaining it. And it work, And it work now. In fact it > > works for more than a year. >=20 > I have used his TeXLive ports through portshaker for a while. > They work pretty well, but there are some issues due to the fact > that the TeXLive folks have some strange ideas. For one, TeXLive > is split into over 2000 packages, many of which are tiny; the > FreeBSD package system doesn't handle that very well. For another, > TeXLive now has its own (dubious) package manager, tlmgr, which > doesn't play well with other package management systems. >=20 > I'm not a ports committer, but perhaps a good first step to > getting TeXLive working better in FreeBSD is to introduce a > TeTeX vs TeXLive knob in the ports tree so that people don't > wind up accidentally clobber their TeXLive install when TeTex > gets pulled in as a dependency. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" When I was using Linux, my favourite distro was Gentoo. Packages on Gentoo are installed in a fashion very alike to FreeBSD - in fact, Gentoos portage was modeled after FreeBSD ports. In portage, there is a knob package_provided meaning that the package referenced as being provided is installed externally and that portage does not need to resolve said dependancy, as it is already there. I do not know of a similar FreeBSD-construct, but have really wished for something alike to stop the pulling in of the teTeX-tree. Cheers, --=20 Christopher TZ: GMT + 2h --Sig_/hjAXrYF=iPT0aT3.B3p0CXA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJP44cVAAoJEJTIKW/o3iwUYfkQALkzis68OMe61mEuFpvUTb8m Qn0xlrjBFbx+S5cWmRsKUsP4+8oYFG8MYw918jG/dDIoYi3ypHdS4G2wzaxgl+Cr WQCGU1xb1RgdpuyCHbl3RhtmgqBXIL9gV+DVC+/K7dbxuFp+MnfpWgw3EsimnnOe U9h/g67ZWb3hQLBTh31MmMdTrwB9EGhjp6KahmcvJYqYe/+WD7nliACJR/Un5846 Ltl1zA+J5m5IOgd/we+2Zknwz+cv75WSR8hfRr1VlG6fnliAEs1sU+M+wdhPYpLv JDUMr0m9OKVqPbEYfVP+S3k1SbXeKwwUYTs/h+jlUj6ea03dOyKBpv3VQl3crpBf v16UR1V/kl0McZ1YGCLPAs3GBg55TNybruzRYF+n9vjmFnGZjQmuhfZc95NKTGVs O1B2Vq2w/jB3q8mzkY1JgyMD98jlddNx1C8JUP65lC0vsi9ksa92CUS1JxOE7pVU 8O5/gMYIRyOKNbUtoufGVPx7nUv2VmVnRbc9ZcQmqxzZAqakI6j6aabZqbMiI7MC BCqn0TuHIG96NA9zmn0g0VipBqN2Mh21TfWPfwpltOoAx9UrgK2c9Sh6vm2lcsIC Sw9YMeJYbY5546frBfCuVZbkgXXETJg72X24ET9p4E6tx8T4Gu/fznrTBVvx8FoW sL9nULeZFCPpiIV5C+tZ =Fv5I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/hjAXrYF=iPT0aT3.B3p0CXA-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 21:59:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8946106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:59:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 501748FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:59:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.187.76.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LLxEmG024115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:59:14 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q5LLxEmG024115 Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/q5LLxEmG024115; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none Message-ID: <4FE39932.60300@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:59:14 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <20120530204502.5cab974c@desktop.pc> <20120617060135.GA7986@zim.MIT.EDU> <20120621224148.36ed4c7e@dijkstra.cruwe.de> In-Reply-To: <20120621224148.36ed4c7e@dijkstra.cruwe.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig9A5872600D24CB92044700A9" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.5 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: Subject: Re: TeXLive merge into FreeBSD ports tree - FreeBSD project idea X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:59:19 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig9A5872600D24CB92044700A9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 21/06/2012 21:41, Christopher J. Ruwe wrote: > In portage, there is a knob package_provided meaning that the package > referenced as being provided is installed externally and that portage > does not need to resolve said dependancy, as it is already there. >=20 > I do not know of a similar FreeBSD-construct, but have really wished fo= r > something alike to stop the pulling in of the teTeX-tree. Ports sort of does this automatically. Some of the time. It depends on how the port is written. If you've got a dependency line like: RUN_DEPENDS=3D fc-cache:${PORTSDIR}/x11-fonts/fontconfig or LIB_DEPENDS=3D expat:${PORTSDIR}/textproc/expat2 then in the first instance the ports will check for the existence of fc-cache as an executable on $PATH, and in the second instance for libexpat.so as a shared library known to ld.so(1). There's nothing to say that either of those files should have been installed from the ports, and you can install quite happily against a non-ports-installed dependency. Ports management software like portmaster(8) or portupgrade(8) can get confused by this and may try and install the dependency from ports in some circumstances. However, if you've got a dependency that looks like so: BUILD_DEPENDS=3D p5-BerkeleyDB>0:${PORTSDIR}/databases/p5-BerkeleyDB ie. with > or >=3D and a version number, then the ports checks for the installation of a package of at least the specified version. So in this case, the ports has to be used to fulfil the dependency. (Perl module dependencies are pretty much always done in this form nowadays in order to avoid having to use ${SITE_PERL} in dependency lines.) Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey --------------enig9A5872600D24CB92044700A9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/jmTIACgkQ8Mjk52CukIwlGgCfc9dPExeXFjeQILzgVIE2kQFo AnUAn1JsiXlrDuAVC3ecCQri08gefBxZ =HaxA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig9A5872600D24CB92044700A9-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 22:27:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1348C106564A; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:27:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vps.rulingia.com (host-122-100-2-194.octopus.com.au [122.100.2.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B21F68FC08; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:27:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server.rulingia.com (c220-239-254-65.belrs5.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.254.65]) by vps.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LMRQ2C021869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:27:27 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LMRJUF092417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:27:19 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5LMRHBe092416; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:27:17 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:27:17 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Doug Barton Message-ID: <20120621222717.GA91640@server.rulingia.com> References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB761.60406@brandonfa.lk> <20120621122802.GA71656@server.rulingia.com> <4FE3552D.9090202@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FE3552D.9090202@FreeBSD.org> X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:27:34 -0000 --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2012-Jun-21 10:09:01 -0700, Doug Barton wrote: >On 06/21/2012 05:28 AM, Peter Jeremy wrote: >> 32.0s - rc scripts ("mounting root" through VTY login prompt) > >I think that there is some confusion about what I wrote originally, so >let me clarify. From the time that /etc/rc starts through the time that >the prompt appears almost all of the time is spent waiting for the >services to start. There is very little time spent IN the rc scripts >themselves (barring something that is poorly written of course). Agreed - I (and I expect everyone else) am using "rc script" to cover the total wall time between exec()ing the script and it returning - in most cases, this is almost entirely synchronous service startup time. The end-user experience is governed by "how long does it take between rebooting or turning the power on and when I can login or interact with my service". Reducing this total time is going to require a combination of changes in multiple areas. One point I'd make is that the rc scripts run with cold caches so reads cause physical I/O. There are somewhat over 150 scripts in /etc/rc.d and a variable number in /usr/local/etc/rc.d (I have between 6 & 33 on different systems). rcorder(8) needs to read each script so, on a system using spinning rust, this amounts to 2-3 seconds overhead. >So the only way to improve the time from /etc/rc to "usable system" >(whatever that means for the user) is to see what we can parallelize. >The problem is that this is a really hard problem. :) And as someone >pointed out, changing from a serial to a parallel process is going to be >disruptive because it will uncover the inadequately specified >dependencies that we have now which are hidden by the serial process ... (I mentioned this problem). One (though intrusive) way would be to use the approach the ports system used when it enabled parallelism within port builds: Add new keyword(s) within each script to control parallelism for that script. Initially, the infrastructure would assume "serial" unless scripts were explicitly marked "parallel" or "background" but once the situation was sufficiently under control, it could be flipped to assume "parallel" unless a script specifically specified "serial". (Note that I haven't looked at the detail of actually implementing this). As an aside, "usable system" is a relevant point. My Netbook originally came with Linpus and it took about 30s from poweron until the Linpus GUI was displayed and allowed user interaction. This looked quite impressive but it took another 30-60s before the system was actually usable because the GUI was started quite early before (eg) the network was up. --=20 Peter Jeremy --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/jn8UACgkQ/opHv/APuIeqFACfesMz98jnmMtYHmKiM7owYW0V jycAni6lXI65KLqPQxWjHJgNNkxIH/TE =w575 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 22:49:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A4211065672 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:49:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from atte.peltomaki@iki.fi) Received: from kameli.org (kameli.org [83.150.86.93]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD0D58FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:49:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by kameli.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4AC1D11F81E; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 01:49:24 +0300 (EEST) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 01:49:24 +0300 From: Atte =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peltom=E4ki?= To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120621224924.GM96212@ass.kameli.org> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:49:33 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 02:42:49PM -0700, Freddie Cash wrote: > There's no need to do a wholesale replacement of the RC system in > FreeBSD to support this concept. What you are describing are "service > profiles". And we already have a single file that describes the > default "service profile" for FreeBSD: /etc/rc.conf. That lists > every service that should be started (or stopped). > > All that's missing is a way to tell the RC system to use a different > rc.conf file (like rc.conf.mobile, or rc.conf.wireless or > rc.conf.whatever), and to run through the RC setup based on that file. > > Our current RC system does everything needed except: > - parallel execution of items that don't depend on each other > - monitor running services and restart them if they crash - Service dependencies: if a service fails that is required by another service, the other is stopped as well. - Monitoring services and ability to configure the service supervisor behaviour: if service fails and is restarted X times in period Y, execute action Z. - Extending the concept of service beyond userland. Kernel services are services too, if eg. network is down, you probably don't want to even try to start a dozen jails. - Permission control (like possible in jails now, "limited root"), non-root users can be delegated permissions to start/stop selected services and configure their behaviour. It's clearly arguable as to which of these features and to what extent is reasonable to implement and whether or not it can or should be done in the existing rc system, instead of implementing a new one that just supports the old rc system as it is. There are real benefits in some of these features, but they can easily turn out as esoteric features in a bloated piece of code, if not implemented with great care. I don't know the internals of current rc system well enough to form educated opinion on how any of this could be done in practice, but I have plentyful experience in how and why projects fail and in this particular case I see a lot of chances for fail with relatively little gain. Just something to think about.. Might be worth noting that I work with Linux systems most of the time and over-engineering is a chronic problem there. I've always admired the simple but effective BSD approach, rather do less but well than a lot badly. -- Atte Peltomäki atte.peltomaki@iki.fi <> http://kameli.org "Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 23:59:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 456A1106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:59:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vps.rulingia.com (host-122-100-2-194.octopus.com.au [122.100.2.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69FA18FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:59:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server.rulingia.com (c220-239-254-65.belrs5.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.254.65]) by vps.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LNxBSf022082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:59:12 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LNx2Kn009872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:59:02 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5LNwxNU009867; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:58:59 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:58:59 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <20120621235859.GA92948@server.rulingia.com> References: <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120620214006.GA1651@aspire.rulingia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mYCpIKhGyMATD0i+" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Daniel Robbins , openrc@gentoo.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:59:15 -0000 --mYCpIKhGyMATD0i+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2012-Jun-21 00:17:11 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> - Lack of dependency handling for manual start/stop > >which is not really a problem and often an adventage. In your opinion. IMO, "runlevels" are a mostly a work-around to hide the lack of proper dependency handling. One obvious use for dependencies is where I have an occasional need for a box to be a NFS server. Given proper dependency handling, I can say "service nfsserver onestart" and it will automatically start rpcbind, statd, lockd and mountd. Another case is doing single-user maintenance on a ZFS system. It would be nice to be able to just say "service zfs start" instead of having to remember to start hostname and hostid first. I agree there are cases where you might want to ignore dependencies. This is easily handled with at "ignore dependencies" flag on service. >> - No provision to automatically restart a daemon if it dies. > >but it should not be a part of rc subsystem at all. Both the monitoring tool and rc subsystem have to interwork to ensure that services aren't inappropriately started or stopped. You can treat them as separate if you insist but the interactions make it much easier if they are designed together. >First - deamons should not die without reason. Agreed but sometimes they can for a wide variety of reasons. > If they do, admin should clearly know it Agreed. But this still requires infrastructure that is not currently avaliable in the base system and is irrelevant to the issue of whether the daemon should be restarted automatically. > and feel it's effects, Some of this can be automated. And a fallback of "try starting it a few times and complain loudly if that doesn't work" is easily implemented (init(8) does it now) and generally works. > and after fixing a source problem , restart it manually. This can present difficulties if you can't actually login remotely because it's sshd that has aborted unexpectedly. And it can be irritating when you get woken at 0300 just to restart some random service that glitched. >in case when you are for some reason required (temporarily of course) to >use daemons that often dies, then just make restart wrapper shell script= =20 >and put it in place of actual daemon in rc.d script. It's nothing to do with "often dies". Unless you have bug-free sotfware, you can have "rarely-and-unexpectedly dies" - which is just as annoying if it occurs when you (or a customer) needs it. And, with this approach, you wind up with N protected daemons and a further N (or 2N if you're paranoid) monitoring daemons - each thrown together independently. A single, central process that can detect when a process dies (or fails some pre-defined "working normally" test) and optionally take some pre-defined action would seem preferable. (Hint: init(8) can already do a lot of this). >there is IMHO already too much automata in default FreeBSD:=20 >default /etc/crontab, /etc/newsyslog.conf and /etc/periodic directory. > >All gets deleted by me as soon as i install FreeBSD. You are free to disable or delete as much of FreeBSD as you like but I personally prefer my systems to reduce my workload by automating normal maintenance tasks. --=20 Peter Jeremy --mYCpIKhGyMATD0i+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/jtUMACgkQ/opHv/APuIfW0QCfcHGODd+qdvVFB2jcqcQuUj/P NGoAoKovM+/n8JYThBVmGA3HfuobYqyq =2GKl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mYCpIKhGyMATD0i+-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 00:37:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFA7C1065679 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:37:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A26AE8FC16 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:37:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 37DA51B4003 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:37:03 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FE3BDD3.8080403@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:35:31 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120613 Thunderbird/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20120621224924.GM96212@ass.kameli.org> In-Reply-To: <20120621224924.GM96212@ass.kameli.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:37:10 -0000 On 06/21/2012 06:49 PM, Atte Peltomäki wrote: > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 02:42:49PM -0700, Freddie Cash wrote: >> There's no need to do a wholesale replacement of the RC system in >> FreeBSD to support this concept. What you are describing are "service >> profiles". And we already have a single file that describes the >> default "service profile" for FreeBSD: /etc/rc.conf. That lists >> every service that should be started (or stopped). >> >> All that's missing is a way to tell the RC system to use a different >> rc.conf file (like rc.conf.mobile, or rc.conf.wireless or >> rc.conf.whatever), and to run through the RC setup based on that file. >> >> Our current RC system does everything needed except: >> - parallel execution of items that don't depend on each other OpenRC does this. >> - monitor running services and restart them if they crash OpenRC does not do monitoring, but it has the prerequisites in place necessary to implement that. It will tell you which services crashed if you run `rc-status`. It should be possible to implement daemon-tools-like monitoring. > - Service dependencies: if a service fails that is required by another > service, the other is stopped as well. It is possible to implement this in OpenRC. > - Monitoring services and ability to configure the service supervisor > behaviour: if service fails and is restarted X times in period Y, > execute action Z. This is also possible to implement, although it would be a pain. > - Extending the concept of service beyond userland. Kernel services are > services too, if eg. network is down, you probably don't want to even > try to start a dozen jails. OpenRC does this. > - Permission control (like possible in jails now, "limited root"), > non-root users can be delegated permissions to start/stop selected > services and configure their behaviour. This description is too vague for me to be able to comment on it. > It's clearly arguable as to which of these features and to what extent > is reasonable to implement and whether or not it can or should be done > in the existing rc system, instead of implementing a new one that just > supports the old rc system as it is. > > There are real benefits in some of these features, but they can easily > turn out as esoteric features in a bloated piece of code, if not > implemented with great care. I don't know the internals of current rc > system well enough to form educated opinion on how any of this could be > done in practice, but I have plentyful experience in how and why projects > fail and in this particular case I see a lot of chances for fail with > relatively little gain. > > Just something to think about.. Might be worth noting that I work with > Linux systems most of the time and over-engineering is a chronic problem > there. I've always admired the simple but effective BSD approach, rather > do less but well than a lot badly. OpenRC is about 10,000 lines of code and is a mix of C and POSIX shell. Performance critical code is written in C. Debian's sysvinit is 3,000 lines of bash. POSIX shell is more verbose than bash and C is even more verbose than POSIX shell, but I would consider it to be fairly lean. If I recall correctly, I was told that Upstart is 80,000 lines of code and systemd is roughly 200,000 lines of code. If you consider of all of systemd's dependencies, it becomes 2,000,000 lines of code. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 00:50:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ED8F1065673 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:50:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from homiemail-a97.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdcaib.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.81]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 144D28FC15 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:50:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from homiemail-a97.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a97.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0A0A28609B; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lab (ip72-219-240-45.dc.dc.cox.net [72.219.240.45]) (Authenticated sender: trhodes@fbsdsecure.org) by homiemail-a97.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 078DC286652; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:12:17 -0400 From: Tom Rhodes To: Wojciech Puchar Message-Id: <20120621131217.5763ffc4.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120621171006.Horde.Rzi7VU-oyn9P4zlOtE-CvdA@horde.syscare.sk> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 1.0.6 (GTK+ 1.2.10; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, danger@rulez.sk Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:50:29 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:20:44 +0200 (CEST) Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >> should not be done, or at least not default. > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2010-10-2010-12.html#FreeBSD-Services-Control-(fsc) > > http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2012-01-2012-03.html#FreeBSD-Services-Control > separate and optional program. > that's acceptable, except i have no idea why this fscadm enable/disable. > editing config is enough. I don't think I understand "i have no idea why this fscadm enable/disable. editing config is enough." and would ask you elaborate for me. Thanks, -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 06:30:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E88A71065670; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:30:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 445A48FC18; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:30:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5M6Ui6k026594; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:30:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5M6UiF2026591; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:30:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:30:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Tom Rhodes In-Reply-To: <20120621131217.5763ffc4.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120621171006.Horde.Rzi7VU-oyn9P4zlOtE-CvdA@horde.syscare.sk> <20120621131217.5763ffc4.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:30:45 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, danger@rulez.sk Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:30:47 -0000 >> separate and optional program. >> that's acceptable, except i have no idea why this fscadm enable/disable. >> editing config is enough. > > I don't think I understand > "i have no idea why this fscadm enable/disable. editing config is enough." > and would ask you elaborate for me. Thanks, why adding solaris style command to add a line in text file. just edit a text file. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 06:57:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5ADA106564A; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:57:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 308DB8FC0C; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:57:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so1600645bkv.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:57:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=0m/EKdbWdxdBX61RgEiWAA/rII2vX/7RXwYKjIhkaq4=; b=xkdc5ptt2ickIU2NxywQKuxfAu5e7YTLHaaSTvujz9PWBZseabZ1zCq1CCTUhCMke8 uft2rta0EfHhAkHtJws4FRBTDo6j7wRPwOynCSEs8f62u06p9FzkgYptsoHVUK60TM7z 5mw70JtiwI3PPWIGzeW4RbfuIGenzjzRjVMp6Dg1+02oKR9YzhsPv6r+Niq5sC+jGTHG P5OkWyeeM1X+Kpz7DoAob8OCQEgg+hEI3UxwlabEhqW1tL40/VRxb/McZ8Qr9iwjVP3z TOc49rFyo8PiX8sk2oVUWQT0qWhDiUUrim8HWVd53h7bKi2CTsEEgSK4TSoHeZjVCzjm k/GA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.153.15 with SMTP id i15mr343550bkw.74.1340348261131; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:57:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> <20120621171006.Horde.Rzi7VU-oyn9P4zlOtE-CvdA@horde.syscare.sk> <20120621131217.5763ffc4.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:57:40 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Tom Rhodes , danger@rulez.sk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:57:43 -0000 On Jun 22, 2012 7:33 AM, "Wojciech Puchar" wrote: >>> >>> separate and optional program. >>> that's acceptable, except i have no idea why this fscadm enable/disable. >>> editing config is enough. >> >> >> I don't think I understand >> "i have no idea why this fscadm enable/disable. editing config is enough." >> and would ask you elaborate for me. Thanks, > > > why adding solaris style command to add a line in text file. just edit a text file. > Scripting? Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 07:02:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01C55106564A; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:02:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 512618FC17; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:02:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5M72irh026742; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:02:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5M72iOJ026739; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:02:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:02:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chris Rees In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <20120621171006.Horde.Rzi7VU-oyn9P4zlOtE-CvdA@horde.syscare.sk> <20120621131217.5763ffc4.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:02:45 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Tom Rhodes , danger@rulez.sk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:02:47 -0000 >> why adding solaris style command to add a line in text file. just edit a > text file. >> > > Scripting? echo newserviceline >>file grep -v servicetoberemoved file >file.new;mv file.new file From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 09:12:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69693106564A; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:12:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from br@jail.io) Received: from mx.bsdpad.com (mx.bsdpad.com [46.4.68.80]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26A088FC15; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:12:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx.bsdpad.com ([46.4.68.80] helo=jail.io) by mx.bsdpad.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Shzu6-0001OS-Lb; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:11:46 +0400 Received: (from br@localhost) by jail.io (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5M9Bkjb005359; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:11:46 GMT (envelope-from br) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:11:46 +0400 From: Ruslan Bukin To: John Baldwin Message-ID: <20120622091146.GA5305@jail.io> References: <20120620204441.GA63638@jail.io> <201206210812.41137.jhb@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201206210812.41137.jhb@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: newbus / snd_hdspe(4) trouble X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:12:05 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 08:12:41AM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 4:44:41 pm Ruslan Bukin wrote: > > Hi. > > > > I have the problem with different behavior of snd_hdspe(4) sound card > > driver initialization. > > > > If I load the driver by hand using kldload everything works fine, > > but in case of loading driver at boot time (loader.conf) or compile > > in kernel the driver can't initialize propertly. > > > > The snd_hdspe(4) driver is designed to create a pcm child device per > > each pair of sound channels. > > > > The problem is that snd_hdspe loaded normally, but pcm child devices > > are not appears. hdspe_pcm_probe() in driver is not called at all. > > However snd_hdspe_pcm driver exists in kldstat -v after boot: > > 5 1 0xffffffff81377000 a2c8 snd_hdspe.ko (/boot/kernel/snd_hdspe.ko) > > Contains modules: > > Id Name > > 7 hdspe/snd_hdspe_pcm > > 6 pci/snd_hdspe > > > > and I have checked, device_add_child() returns not NULL. > > > > I played with MODULE_DEPEND as done in snd_hda(4) but no luck. > > What can I do to debug the problem? > > The snd_hdspe driver probably needs to use DRIVER_MODULE_ORDERED() to ensure > the other modules in its kld are registered with new-bus before it tries to > attach to devices. I have changed, but no success. hdspe.c: DRIVER_MODULE_ORDERED(snd_hdspe, pci, hdspe_driver, pcm_devclass, 0, 0, SI_ORDER_SECOND); hdspe-pcm.c: DRIVER_MODULE_ORDERED(snd_hdspe_pcm, hdspe, hdspe_pcm_driver, pcm_devclass, 0, 0, SI_ORDER_FIRST); In this case, pcm devices are not appears neither at boot time nor by manually kldload. In reverse order works as usual (only by manually kldload) -Ruslan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 10:14:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C8081065689; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:14:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C2AE8FC18; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:14:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so1744097bkv.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 03:14:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer; bh=UV4YVQ5zC4SZutC/YLkrO7FPqD7e6ujCQi1qLJ+FrG8=; b=05R5toE2HVo87tHCwafrgm1LljH0ibhdoW+8JTDVZDfYzGDtvqHMP+FwYOirch7XUP mNF8VErxj8l3M0QBAz7/mp3wuk+v5ZpP7GbXaClk3FMy8eejD/HD0cAWCkWwySCCB8Sk msi3VCpkoSUrbhPC5t0p9HYFzGiQqpViN/ldoc+XR/BGJ8AMAWF1Rrxx6p5zA8lm55Jt tDww3Mmt2jtG5HFs5MvE+9VDEfHurAAw1pnD0m6/HjXI51eK36CvibrU+CO894qS7n3h uriszQSgUtlX8rHN5uvpiUHlGWtRydeTtkgk3+nk9PQcFpsFt0U3w9t1p41dc3YqJRFa bBFQ== Received: by 10.205.120.17 with SMTP id fw17mr567752bkc.20.1340360084529; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 03:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u8sm35400742bks.0.2012.06.22.03.14.41 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 03:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120622.101441.643.1@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: hackers@freebsd.org, sbruno@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:14:41 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <1340209936.2858.6.camel@powernoodle.corp.yahoo.com> References: <20120620.100005.305.1@DOMY-PC> <1340209936.2858.6.camel@powernoodle.corp.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: Re: run_interrupt_driven_hooks: ... xpt_config" delay X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:14:46 -0000 ----- Original Message -----=0D=0AFrom: Sean Bruno = =0D=0ATo: "rank1seeker@gmail.com" = =0D=0ACc: "hackers@freebsd.org" = =0D=0ADate: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:32:16 = -0700=0D=0ASubject: Re: run_interrupt_driven_hooks: ... xpt_config" = delay=0D=0A=0D=0A> On Wed, 2012-06-20 at 03:00 -0700, = rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote:=0D=0A> > >From 3 machines with that type of = cutom kernels, only 1 suffers from=0D=0A> > this (and problem is gone, as = soon as I revert to GENERIC)=0D=0A> =0D=0A> Please post your "custom = kernel config" somewhere so we can see what is=0D=0A> different.=0D=0A> = =0D=0A> Sean=0D=0A> =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0AHere it is:=0D=0A--=0D=0Aident = FACTORY=0D=0A=0D=0Amakeoptions DEBUG=3D-g=0D=0A=0D=0Acpu = HAMMER=0D=0A=0D=0Adevice acpi=0D=0Adevice = ahci=0D=0Adevice atacore=0D=0Adevice atapci=0D=0Adevice = atkbd=0D=0Adevice atkbdc=0D=0Adevice = atpic=0D=0Adevice bpf=0D=0Adevice cd=0D=0Adevice = cpufreq=0D=0Adevice da=0D=0Adevice dcons=0D=0Adevice = dcons_crom=0D=0Adevice ehci=0D=0Adevice = em=0D=0Adevice ether=0D=0Adevice faith=0D=0Adevice = fdc=0D=0Adevice firewire=0D=0Adevice = firmware=0D=0Adevice fwe=0D=0Adevice fwip=0D=0Adevice = gif=0D=0Adevice loop=0D=0Adevice lpt=0D=0Adevice = md=0D=0Adevice pass=0D=0Adevice = pci=0D=0Adevice pf=0D=0Adevice plip=0D=0Adevice = ppbus=0D=0Adevice ppc=0D=0Adevice ppi=0D=0Adevice = pty=0D=0Adevice random=0D=0Adevice sc=0D=0Adevice = scbus=0D=0Adevice snd_hda=0D=0Adevice = sound=0D=0Adevice tun=0D=0Adevice uhci=0D=0Adevice = umass=0D=0Adevice ums=0D=0Adevice usb=0D=0Adevice = vga=0D=0Adevice vlan=0D=0Adevice = wlan=0D=0Adevice wlan_amrr=0D=0Adevice = wlan_ccmp=0D=0Adevice wlan_tkip=0D=0Adevice = wlan_wep=0D=0Adevice wlan_xauth=0D=0A=0D=0Aoption = SC_PIXEL_MODE=0D=0Aoption VESA=0D=0A=0D=0Aoption = ATA_CAM=0D=0Aoption IEEE80211_AMPDU_AGE=0D=0Aoption = IEEE80211_DEBUG=0D=0Aoption IEEE80211_SUPPORT_MESH=0D=0Aoption = SMP=0D=0A=0D=0Aoption CD9660=0D=0Aoption = FFS=0D=0Aoption MSDOSFS=0D=0Aoption PROCFS=0D=0Aoption = PSEUDOFS=0D=0Aoption SOFTUPDATES=0D=0Aoption = UFS_DIRHASH=0D=0A=0D=0Aoption GEOM_LABEL=0D=0Aoption = GEOM_PART_GPT=0D=0A=0D=0Aoption INET=0D=0Aoption = INET6=0D=0Aoption SCTP=0D=0A=0D=0Aoption = COMPAT_43TTY=0D=0Aoption COMPAT_FREEBSD32=0D=0Aoption = COMPAT_FREEBSD4=0D=0Aoption COMPAT_FREEBSD5=0D=0Aoption = COMPAT_FREEBSD6=0D=0Aoption COMPAT_FREEBSD7=0D=0Aoption = FLOWTABLE=0D=0Aoption INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE=0D=0Aoption = KBD_INSTALL_CDEV=0D=0Aoption P1003_1B_SEMAPHORES=0D=0Aoption = PREEMPTION=0D=0Aoption PRINTF_BUFR_SIZE=3D128=0D=0Aoption = SCHED_ULE=0D=0Aoption SCSI_DELAY=3D1000=0D=0Aoption = SYSVMSG=0D=0Aoption SYSVSEM=0D=0Aoption = SYSVSHM=0D=0Aoption = _KPOSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING=0D=0A--=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ARelevant hang part: = (always at same place)=0D=0A-------=0D=0Augen1.1: at = usbus1=0D=0Auhub1: on usbus1=0D=0Augen2.1: at usbus2=0D=0Auhub2: on usbus2=0D=0Augen3.1: at = usbus3=0D=0Auhub3: on usbus3=0D=0Augen4.1: at usbus4=0D=0Auhub4: on usbus4=0D=0Augen5.1: at = usbus5=0D=0Auhub5: on usbus5=0D=0Augen6.1: at usbus6=0D=0Auhub6: on usbus6=0D=0Auhub0: 2 ports with = 2 removable, self powered=0D=0Auhub1: 2 ports with 2 removable, self = powered=0D=0Auhub3: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered=0D=0Auhub4: 2 = ports with 2 removable, self powered=0D=0Auhub5: 2 ports with 2 = removable, self powered=0D=0Auhub2: 4 ports with 4 removable, self = powered=0D=0Auhub6: 6 ports with 6 removable, self powered=0D=0Augen2.2: = at usbus2=0D=0Aurtw0: on usbus2=0D=0Aurtw0: unknown RTL8187L = type: 0x8000000=0D=0Aurtw0: rtl8187l rf rtl8225u hwrev none=0D=0Augen4.2: = at usbus4=0D=0Aums0: on usbus4=0D=0Aums0: 3 buttons = and [XYZ] coordinates ID=3D0=0D=0Arun_interrupt_driven_hooks: still = waiting after 60 seconds for xpt_config=0D=0Aada0 at ahcich0 bus 0 scbus3 = target 0 lun 0=0D=0Aada0: ATA-7 SATA 1.x = device=0D=0Aada0: 150.000MB/s transfers (SATA 1.x, UDMA6, PIO = 8192bytes)=0D=0Aada0: Command Queueing enabled=0D=0Aada0: 305245MB = (625142448 512 byte sectors: 16H 63S/T 16383C)=0D=0ASMP: AP CPU #1 = Launched!=0D=0A-------=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ADomagoj Smol=E8i=E6 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 04:51:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1272106567C; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:51:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from user.vdr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77E2C8FC27; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:51:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so1457323ghb.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:51:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tiNCQ6+LyEL0GQs2C9kPKop44vA1KnH/F0rbIaGivo0=; b=OYW2/QdZIQfly0iU7pGS5pbo6iafSH2IH3BDeCHnNISVEEGMjvMQ3FwwhEq2rlPcsS 2nhtMevIt+hIkpyGAyGt20krq2AJvedRBGdnhKJurtrIw4bzg99EtV+bcmdaiI9heYPv 0Cc9J+d2ee2L86DHba/jhGlOl6a53adKqcmGXki86mlT583Go87pyk2NSyoQZY8w2n1Y HHr7Xlv1qaC/xWBShCAOOmoPkCoxrjNTEwZWUWtpiarebfjQX4Q9tRfio2ouPutZAnzX kT8meq5TBrTY3ljas7qB06hc9ATkLORgAVNGi4L75N522BCgrs76aPQ0C8Wf3YW0ZETr +urQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.186.162 with SMTP id fl2mr468946igc.44.1340340675496; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.189.201 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:51:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120621202927.303410@gmx.com> References: <20120621202927.303410@gmx.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:51:15 -0700 Message-ID: From: VDR User To: Dieter BSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:18:26 +0000 Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (no subject) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:51:22 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Dieter BSD wrote: >> With very very very few exceptions, all analog NTSC broadcasts have >> been switched to digital, by the FCC mandated deadline of June 12, >> 2009. > > As long as there remain some NTSC broadcasts, there might be some > that you wish to watch. =C2=A0That's why I wrote: Yes, technically there are still some that exist, for now. However, their death certificate is signed and they're so few that it's not worth mentioning. >> You absolutely do NOT have to reencode a stream > > I did not say anything about RE-encoding anything. =C2=A0Only about > encoding/compressing the high bandwidth datastream the tuner > generates from NTSC. =C2=A0And to be clear, this only applies to > NTSC, not to ATSC. NTSC streams are not broadcast raw. What do you call encoding data that's already encoded if you don't think it's reencoding? Also, doing so causes degredation so unless there's a need for the user to do so, he's better off not wasting his time. >> Tuners do NOT provide raw audio/video to the system in any case. > > http://corona.homeunix.net/cx88wiki/Overview/RawVideo While that's technically possible in _some_ cases, and assuming it's fully implemented and functional, I'm unaware of any software that actually provides raw data to the user. I suppose I should have worded my point differently. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 13:06:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13CF41065670; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:06:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from homiemail-a95.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdcaid.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.83]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC6FB8FC08; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:06:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from homiemail-a95.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a95.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40AE1E00B; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lab (ip72-219-240-45.dc.dc.cox.net [72.219.240.45]) (Authenticated sender: trhodes@fbsdsecure.org) by homiemail-a95.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 0E8CF1E00D; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:06:28 -0400 From: Tom Rhodes To: Wojciech Puchar Message-Id: <20120622090628.3c4bb449.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <20120621171006.Horde.Rzi7VU-oyn9P4zlOtE-CvdA@horde.syscare.sk> <20120621131217.5763ffc4.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 1.0.6 (GTK+ 1.2.10; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: trhodes@freebsd.org, danger@rulez.sk, utisoft@gmail.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:06:31 -0000 On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:02:44 +0200 (CEST) Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >> why adding solaris style command to add a line in text file. just edit a > > text file. > >> > > > > Scripting? > > > > echo newserviceline >>file > > grep -v servicetoberemoved file >file.new;mv file.new file > Why have people edit yet another file to do process monitoring, and have them kill hup a service just to have it work? Not very optimal I thought. -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 14:24:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E16921065675 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:24:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B69028FC17 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:24:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 15052B9B4; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:24:24 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Ruslan Bukin Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:23:46 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p13; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <20120620204441.GA63638@jail.io> <201206210812.41137.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120622091146.GA5305@jail.io> In-Reply-To: <20120622091146.GA5305@jail.io> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206221023.46697.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:24:24 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: newbus / snd_hdspe(4) trouble X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:24:25 -0000 On Friday, June 22, 2012 5:11:46 am Ruslan Bukin wrote: > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 08:12:41AM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 4:44:41 pm Ruslan Bukin wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > > > I have the problem with different behavior of snd_hdspe(4) sound card > > > driver initialization. > > > > > > If I load the driver by hand using kldload everything works fine, > > > but in case of loading driver at boot time (loader.conf) or compile > > > in kernel the driver can't initialize propertly. > > > > > > The snd_hdspe(4) driver is designed to create a pcm child device per > > > each pair of sound channels. > > > > > > The problem is that snd_hdspe loaded normally, but pcm child devices > > > are not appears. hdspe_pcm_probe() in driver is not called at all. > > > However snd_hdspe_pcm driver exists in kldstat -v after boot: > > > 5 1 0xffffffff81377000 a2c8 snd_hdspe.ko (/boot/kernel/snd_hdspe.ko) > > > Contains modules: > > > Id Name > > > 7 hdspe/snd_hdspe_pcm > > > 6 pci/snd_hdspe > > > > > > and I have checked, device_add_child() returns not NULL. > > > > > > I played with MODULE_DEPEND as done in snd_hda(4) but no luck. > > > What can I do to debug the problem? > > > > The snd_hdspe driver probably needs to use DRIVER_MODULE_ORDERED() to ensure > > the other modules in its kld are registered with new-bus before it tries to > > attach to devices. > > I have changed, but no success. > > hdspe.c: > DRIVER_MODULE_ORDERED(snd_hdspe, pci, hdspe_driver, pcm_devclass, 0, 0, SI_ORDER_SECOND); Try making this one use SI_ORDER_ANY. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 15:27:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73C36106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:27:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from mailout-us.mail.com (mailout-us.gmx.com [74.208.5.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 167118FC0A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:27:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 940 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jun 2012 15:27:32 -0000 Received: from 67.206.187.88 by rms-us015 with HTTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:27:30 -0400 From: "Dieter BSD" Message-ID: <20120622152731.303450@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Authenticated: #74169980 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GMX-UID: tOuWb+0X3zOlNR3dAHAhph1+IGRvb8A7 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:27:38 -0000 user.vdr writes: >> As long as there remain some NTSC broadcasts, there might be some >> that you wish to watch. That's why I wrote: > > Yes, technically there are still some that exist, for now. However, > their death certificate is signed and they're so few that it's not > worth mentioning. If you don't think NTSC is worth mentioning, why do you keep posting the same incorrect statements over and over again? >>> You absolutely do NOT have to reencode a stream >> >> I did not say anything about RE-encoding anything. Only about >> encoding/compressing the high bandwidth datastream the tuner >> generates from NTSC. And to be clear, this only applies to >> NTSC, not to ATSC. > > NTSC streams are not broadcast raw. What do you call encoding data > that's already encoded if you don't think it's reencoding? Also, doing > so causes degredation so unless there's a need for the user to do so, > he's better off not wasting his time. NTSC is not a stream of bits. NTSC is analog. The tuner converts the NTSC analog waveform into a raw stream of bits. This raw stream of bits is too large to conviently store on disk, so it needs to be compressed/encoded into mpeg or similar. Some tuners include a hardware encoder, but many do not. >>> Tuners do NOT provide raw audio/video to the system in any case. >> >> http://corona.homeunix.net/cx88wiki/Overview/RawVideo > > While that's technically possible in _some_ cases, and assuming it's > fully implemented and functional, I'm unaware of any software that > actually provides raw data to the user. I suppose I should have worded > my point differently. The cx88wiki URL above describes the cx88 software (in ports). For tuners without a hardware encoder, raw video/audio is the only thing you can get from the tuner when receiving NTSC. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 16:44:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D2B1065670; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:44:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from br@jail.io) Received: from mx.bsdpad.com (mx.bsdpad.com [46.4.68.80]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 931F08FC14; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:44:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx.bsdpad.com ([46.4.68.80] helo=jail.io) by mx.bsdpad.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Si6y9-0003WV-PY; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:44:25 +0400 Received: (from br@localhost) by jail.io (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5MGiPSt013546; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:44:25 GMT (envelope-from br) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:44:25 +0400 From: Ruslan Bukin To: John Baldwin Message-ID: <20120622164425.GA13364@jail.io> References: <20120620204441.GA63638@jail.io> <201206210812.41137.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120622091146.GA5305@jail.io> <201206221023.46697.jhb@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201206221023.46697.jhb@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: newbus / snd_hdspe(4) trouble X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:44:38 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:23:46AM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > On Friday, June 22, 2012 5:11:46 am Ruslan Bukin wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 08:12:41AM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > > On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 4:44:41 pm Ruslan Bukin wrote: > > > > Hi. > > > > > > > > I have the problem with different behavior of snd_hdspe(4) sound card > > > > driver initialization. > > > > > > > > If I load the driver by hand using kldload everything works fine, > > > > but in case of loading driver at boot time (loader.conf) or compile > > > > in kernel the driver can't initialize propertly. > > > > > > > > The snd_hdspe(4) driver is designed to create a pcm child device per > > > > each pair of sound channels. > > > > > > > > The problem is that snd_hdspe loaded normally, but pcm child devices > > > > are not appears. hdspe_pcm_probe() in driver is not called at all. > > > > However snd_hdspe_pcm driver exists in kldstat -v after boot: > > > > 5 1 0xffffffff81377000 a2c8 snd_hdspe.ko (/boot/kernel/snd_hdspe.ko) > > > > Contains modules: > > > > Id Name > > > > 7 hdspe/snd_hdspe_pcm > > > > 6 pci/snd_hdspe > > > > > > > > and I have checked, device_add_child() returns not NULL. > > > > > > > > I played with MODULE_DEPEND as done in snd_hda(4) but no luck. > > > > What can I do to debug the problem? > > > > > > The snd_hdspe driver probably needs to use DRIVER_MODULE_ORDERED() to ensure > > > the other modules in its kld are registered with new-bus before it tries to > > > attach to devices. > > > > I have changed, but no success. > > > > hdspe.c: > > DRIVER_MODULE_ORDERED(snd_hdspe, pci, hdspe_driver, pcm_devclass, 0, 0, SI_ORDER_SECOND); > > Try making this one use SI_ORDER_ANY. Also no success. -Ruslan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 17:13:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4456C1065675 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:13:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com (mailout-us.gmx.com [74.208.5.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DD48B8FC1E for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:13:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 6113 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jun 2012 17:13:57 -0000 Received: from 67.206.187.88 by rms-us008.v300.gmx.net with HTTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:13:53 -0400 From: "Dieter BSD" Message-ID: <20120622171355.303430@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Authenticated: #74169980 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GMX-UID: hMKWb+MX3zOlNR3dAHAhKcV+IGRvb0DQ Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:13:59 -0000 user.vdr writes: >>>>> Tuners do NOT provide raw audio/video to the system in any case. >>>> >>>> http://corona.homeunix.net/cx88wiki/Overview/RawVideo >>> >>> While that's technically possible in _some_ cases, and assuming it's >>> fully implemented and functional, I'm unaware of any software that >>> actually provides raw data to the user. I suppose I should have worded >>> my point differently. >> >> The cx88wiki URL above describes the cx88 software (in ports). >> For tuners without a hardware encoder, raw video/audio is the only >> thing you can get from the tuner when receiving NTSC. > > Nope. Prove me wrong.  Post the command line to have cx88 (in ports) output encoded (mpeg or similar) video with a pcHDTV HD3000 tuner card receiving a NTSC input. Since you claim that the cx88 output is already encoded, piping the output into mplayer or similar to do the encoding doesn't count. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 15:48:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004AD106564A; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:48:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from user.vdr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D8948FC14; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:48:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so1945165yen.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:48:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=qgubgwpQh55WERyAf1HaFUrEpJNtwtF74Jw2ezKUnSs=; b=VxgFbBEc2rXUBt/gwI2NtTUJKdHLixJVIS+IBv+c6bUUIZrqr817Y5boXMErfi26wo /3Cz4IV8d//KUY/I+O4u5byCb+gU4fKlMeJ8Ym2ZEzNv1Eg1J/16GXQlp0lpop0vX8U+ ZbouY0aPNiMCqT1sOAPL761zR5CLkCNh6XAu2jmj7WfL7iKS92qHNHc+yHAWKYgLAlTs q2Y904sNnArDT7CFL8SHVJftZzCIOBOo8+plVBQnUh8/52w74aN4HuJYqOTwv+dKd7FI r1+slraI++W7THMEsAqwS7E+g6T5Euuhc7dyUF/eWgRTjkUqZvxzTnaVjlgPGVBqSQz5 8UPQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.80.129 with SMTP id v1mr413222ick.21.1340380101365; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.189.201 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:48:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120622152731.303450@gmx.com> References: <20120622152731.303450@gmx.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:48:21 -0700 Message-ID: From: VDR User To: Dieter BSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:47:35 +0000 Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:48:23 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Dieter BSD wrote: >> Yes, technically there are still some that exist, for now. However, >> their death certificate is signed and they're so few that it's not >> worth mentioning. > > If you don't think NTSC is worth mentioning, why do you keep posting > the same incorrect statements over and over again? Your disagree that NTSC is out, soon including the very few exceptions that remain? You disagree that NTSC is not worth mentioning at this point? Well, to be fair, one of those is fact but the other is opinion, which everyone is welcome to -- differing or not. > NTSC is not a stream of bits. NTSC is analog. The tuner converts > the NTSC analog waveform into a raw stream of bits. This raw > stream of bits is too large to conviently store on disk, so it > needs to be compressed/encoded into mpeg or similar. Some > tuners include a hardware encoder, but many do not. Nope. > The cx88wiki URL above describes the cx88 software (in ports). > For tuners without a hardware encoder, raw video/audio is the only > thing you can get from the tuner when receiving NTSC. Nope. It seems you want to talk about things more along the lines of what's technically in the realm of possibility while I prefer sticking to real world scenario & application. Which, leaves us at an impasse....I guess. Cheers From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 17:17:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B9ED106564A; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:17:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from user.vdr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A6B8FC18; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:17:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhq56 with SMTP id 56so1924993yhq.17 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:17:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tABGZOZMY197LP1nrowjgKxWHaSbLNwCJmh83GE6Oqo=; b=rB3rIqG0dXuoMQmHAymfbM9lKv/NxVAYSOeAY/h9PZllxABVuSOX/3MRxfzVQXgTgG CkJ7HIn5lGlgnrvFRTa0K/Vp9BzV2duqZ79m8Kuy/ahotJm0xkqWNJ4KUl78LSGDRqD8 V5Gqo2kbj5cUjOA7JzPViKskFVw3Mf7MTK6mwvR2qCsSalrTWEh+fFKwicT3mvK2ZEfI wKBElu/CfFUhgKyStJGkD5K+cXZ8fmQi1tyS8eJ5g1yJSm4b7KcdXsaRyyU+CZPW7447 mGSU/soKf0BUBLNpC9c4yNoSNsuMFXPyS7o6qu38AJzOHV1LOA7gIRKJox3LVk33uwI0 Sr9A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.188.201 with SMTP id gc9mr2408237igc.44.1340385465945; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.189.201 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:17:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120622171355.303430@gmx.com> References: <20120622171355.303430@gmx.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:17:45 -0700 Message-ID: From: VDR User To: Dieter BSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:58:15 +0000 Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:17:47 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Dieter BSD wrote= : >>> The cx88wiki URL above describes the cx88 software (in ports). >>> For tuners without a hardware encoder, raw video/audio is the only >>> thing you can get from the tuner when receiving NTSC. >> >> Nope. > > Prove me wrong. =C2=A0Post the command line to have cx88 (in ports) outpu= t > encoded (mpeg or similar) video with a pcHDTV HD3000 tuner card > receiving a NTSC input. Please see my comment following the bit you quoted. Cheers From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 18:18:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC40B106566C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:18:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nec556@retena.com) Received: from resmaa12.ono.com (smtp12.ono.com [62.42.230.20]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B9C78FC0A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:18:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from GogPortatil.retena.com (95.20.251.164) by resmaa12.ono.com (8.5.113) (authenticated as nec556@retena.com) id 4FA8826F00C1104C; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:18:40 +0200 Message-ID: <4FA8826F00C1104C@> (added by postmaster@resmaa12.ono.com) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:21:16 +0200 To: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Eduardo Morras In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 2012.0.2180 [2437/5086] Cc: Subject: Re: MAGIC with HP KVM - someone will help? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:18:53 -0000 At 17:20 21/06/2012, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >no ideas? Nop, sorry. I don't use KVMs. Perhaps the PS2 to USB converter is doing something bad. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 18:38:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8644710656DD for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:38:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC368FC1A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:38:32 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=5RdqC59s+1zkulwHrz2t87EyqQDm1gdnXoVB5hls+EU=; b=EtGWxSdzEdkBoRulRJtXzAZT0Y7Nz7DembvRZfno9ZrINDJ2JMWyT6GfCJVJKsWROfVWjj79OaqpVWYwZg4T6RUIy/RXoyXhh8HOt4sOyaWaHMyLK2GwyN3edNk7ezTP; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Si8kX-000MI1-Dj for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:38:31 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340390303-94480-94479/5/47; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:38:23 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:38:22 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -0.6 Subject: Re: MAGIC with HP KVM - someone will help? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:38:32 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:14:09 -0500, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > As this KVM have PS/2 connectors to keyboard and mouse i added USB to > dual-PS/2 converter. http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=PS2-to-USB+adapters You probably have a ps/2 converter that's known to be super buggy From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 19:25:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1ADC106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:25:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com (mail-wi0-f178.google.com [209.85.212.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 765498FC0C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:25:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhn6 with SMTP id hn6so796654wib.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:25:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer; bh=9gvICmuRfEiAYb5QY3pzK7vYX3EjgO97Suzrg+wu5eo=; b=wtam5ZQOIb3T1NyWhXgF3LmlS8/2JLNnJSRx++XEe1ZE9m0ykWC9Xe7Y/+eXoY/q3x TAAwVmxm7k30agHA3nTMdMVlD/Gd5oowXbt77eQE6nJsrijeMffNcOOsrIZA04gfFv0Z SvDSQjVrIg2Gv43b8QS64nFT+6WOhBUnF5kQ/foZMDmRyGZ54QJZOPvKJRL1alMY2s3g X8wv7ptiqwnB97ON6EKClOlkaFtzO0g82lOKK8X+JvZIPKnqColpjbo8SYhtKQTrKfGT 5RCmT8s3x3jjIS4zebCoXT5kfX66pKpI+dTUgMaxYZqRRudxt6uwZNzAXXAD9A2V6JL4 gOGA== Received: by 10.180.102.228 with SMTP id fr4mr6970971wib.6.1340393144697; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:25:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t8sm480344wiy.3.2012.06.22.12.25.31 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120622.192538.734.2@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:25:38 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: tcsh's exit codes X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:25:46 -0000 There is something wrong with tcsh shell:=0D=0A=0D=0A# mergemaster -V | = grep '\--run-updates'=0D=0A Returned exit code 1=0D=0A# mergemaster -V = | grep -q '\--run-updates'=0D=0A Returned exit code 141=0D=0A=0D=0AIn = '/bin/sh' both above CMDs return correct 0 exit = code=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ADomagoj Smol=E8i=E6 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 01:25:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 124C7106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 01:25:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) Received: from mailhost.m5p.com (ip-2-2-0-2.r20.asbnva02.us.ce.gin.ntt.net [IPv6:2001:418:0:5000::16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2EE48FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 01:25:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonderland.m5p.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mailhost.m5p.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5N1PaHT095497 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:25:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) Message-ID: <4FE51B10.5030701@m5p.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:25:36 -0400 From: George Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120609 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20120622152731.303450@gmx.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (mailhost.m5p.com [IPv6:::1]); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:25:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.72 on 10.100.0.3 Subject: Re: how to turn my computer into a TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 01:25:43 -0000 On 06/22/12 11:48, VDR User wrote: > [...] >> NTSC is not a stream of bits. NTSC is analog. The tuner converts >> the NTSC analog waveform into a raw stream of bits. This raw >> stream of bits is too large to conviently store on disk, so it >> needs to be compressed/encoded into mpeg or similar. Some >> tuners include a hardware encoder, but many do not. > > Nope. > [...] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC Black-and-white NTSC was standardized in 1941. Color NTSC was standardized in 1953. What digital parts do you imagine were used in those years? -- George From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 06:01:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6359106566B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:01:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5254C8FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:01:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5N61dOK030729; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:01:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5N61dCO030726; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:01:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:01:39 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Eduardo Morras In-Reply-To: <4FA8826F00C1104C@> (added by postmaster@resmaa12.ono.com) Message-ID: References: <4FA8826F00C1104C@> (added by postmaster@resmaa12.ono.com) User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:01:40 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MAGIC with HP KVM - someone will help? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:01:43 -0000 > > Nop, sorry. I don't use KVMs. Perhaps the PS2 to USB converter is doing > something bad. that was my first idea BUT: 1) i know for a friend that on some motherboards (it was embedded VIA based CPU) geli doesn't work at typing password. 2) in my case (as well as his case) problems happen everytime kernel function cngets is used, it maybe after being unable to mount root in a kernel prompt. The problem IS FreeBSD specific AND some hardware specific. this seems like an interaction between FreeBSD and some hardware (timings?). Really have no idea. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 06:03:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07836106564A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:03:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D7508FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:03:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5N63obK030759; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:03:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5N63n6C030756; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:03:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:03:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Felder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:03:50 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MAGIC with HP KVM - someone will help? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:03:56 -0000 100% HIT! yes i have on of those that have "PS/2 reset" issues " On Fri, 22 Jun 2012, Mark Felder wrote: > On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:14:09 -0500, Wojciech Puchar > wrote: > >> As this KVM have PS/2 connectors to keyboard and mouse i added USB to >> dual-PS/2 converter. > > http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=PS2-to-USB+adapters > > > You probably have a ps/2 converter that's known to be super buggy > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 06:19:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857211065670; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:19:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from listlog2011@gmail.com) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E4C58FC14; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:19:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from xp5k.my.domain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5N6JRao022350; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:19:28 GMT (envelope-from listlog2011@gmail.com) Message-ID: <4FE55F91.5070303@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:17:53 +0800 From: David Xu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111228 Thunderbird/9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin References: <201206182256.30535.dcherednik@roshianokatachi.com> <201206210811.20427.jhb@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <201206210811.20427.jhb@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Daniil Cherednik , kib@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fast syscalls via sysenter X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: davidxu@freebsd.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:19:31 -0000 On 2012/06/21 20:11, John Baldwin wrote: > On Monday, June 18, 2012 2:56:30 pm Daniil Cherednik wrote: >> Hi! >> >> I am trying to continue the work started by DavidXu on implemention of fast >> syscalls via sysenter/sysexit. >> http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/ >> I have ported it on FreeBSD9. It looks like it works. Unfortunately I am a >> beginner in kernel so I have some questions: >> >> 1. see http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/kernel.patch >> /* >> * If %edx was changed, we can not use sysexit, because it >> * needs %edx to restore userland %eip. >> */ >> if (orig_edx != frame.tf_edx) >> td->td_pcb->pcb_flags |= PCB_FULLCTX; >> >> What is the reason why we have to do this additional check? In >> http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/sysenter.s >> we store %edx to the stack in >> pushl %edx /* ring 3 next %eip */ >> and we restore the register in >> popl %edx /* ring 3 %eip */ > Some system calls return two return values (pipe(2)) or return a 64-bit > off_t (lseek(2)). Those system calls change %edx's value and need that > changed value to make it out to userland. > >> 2. see http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/sysenter.s >> movl PCPU(CURPCB),%esi >> call syscall >> >> Why do we movl PCPU(CURPCB),%esi before calling syscall? syscall is just c- >> function. > No clue on this one, looks like it is not needed. > [kib@ is cc'ed] I implemented the sysenter syscall long time ago, it indeed can reduce system call overhead on i386. I think it might be the time to implement linux like vdso syscall now based on the work kib@ recently has done, though I don''t know how to hook it into kib's code. I quick googled it, and found they put some data into aux vector: http://www.trilithium.com/johan/2005/08/linux-gate/ http://www.takatan.net/lxr/source/arch/um/os-Linux/elf_aux.c?a=x86_64#L40 Regards, David Xu From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 14:58:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55340106566B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:58:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8DC58FC14 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:58:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so2851327bkv.13 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:58:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=td6VIgZ/JEyaZcr78i7LCb+miqpbIAExXNCOUiCHmBw=; b=xE4xDeNCcl/ETCzshBkvrlk67FYiyLjbkmXPval6OAujo4zHZhQg2JqIrAWtcLG2FA GX833OE0lpm6txYptYyShrH0RBu1r9q86h4c8Jslwoo4T/ziwsnYuRl7xgZO6E6bqLkc cNCvHF3J0tnx7jwPQpxyDGYSFDalcbjoQaEuDhA11rEt2OwuEkjkqsLE+cpxGBHvoe5x HpnqbSIPsfSKgpiXf+ta4PVu/EpQTblzgm3Qke/gpYyA8AOltjXUFg/Qv9jGo9t0D7Hy N6YZZrVTUwiWdeBvBOZ32AvvghGconGKQ4gTaMKd29f/QBH0sA3ggJIF/axmuFUJsIO6 Y2Cw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.145.89 with SMTP id c25mr2106234bkv.5.1340463526436; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:58:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:58:46 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mark Felder Subject: Re: MAGIC with HP KVM - someone will help? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:58:48 -0000 On Jun 23, 2012 7:04 AM, "Wojciech Puchar" wrote: > > 100% HIT! > > yes i have on of those that have "PS/2 reset" issues " Unfortunately even good adaptors have their share of problems. I refuse to move from the keyboard I have currently, and occasionally keys get 'stuck'.... but it's so obvious when it happens it's no big hardship. I have a Belkin adaptor one by the way, and it works very well with FreeBSD apart from that issue, if that's any help. Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 15:09:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65A381065670 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:09:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA5A58FC1A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:09:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NF9VUC039364; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:09:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5NF9VS3039361; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:09:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:09:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chris Rees In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:09:32 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mark Felder Subject: Re: MAGIC with HP KVM - someone will help? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:09:36 -0000 > > > > yes i have on of those that have "PS/2 reset" issues " > > Unfortunately even good adaptors have their share of problems. as for now i already planned to rearrange boot sequence of this server and /etc/rc so network would be temporarily up and sshd active until i log in and geli attach needed devices. > I refuse to move from the keyboard I have currently, and occasionally > keys get 'stuck'.... but it's so obvious when it happens it's no big hardship. I have a Belkin adaptor one by the way, and it works but the PROBABLY FReeBSD specific is that some configuration, not only USB to PS/2 adapters, have problems only when kernel cngets routine. my friend switched to linux, in spite of lower performance, on his dedicated fileserver machine with VIA processor, only because keyboard didn't work when geli asked for password at boot, or - for whatever reason - in kernel command prompt activated. it works every other case properly. I would like to help fixing a problem, but not even have idea how. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 16:11:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79CF01065672 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:11:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nec556@retena.com) Received: from resmaa14.ono.com (smtp14.ono.com [62.42.230.176]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03DF08FC15 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:11:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from GogPortatil.retena.com (37.11.165.133) by resmaa14.ono.com (8.5.113) (authenticated as nec556@retena.com) id 4FA8828000C34124 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:11:41 +0200 Message-ID: <4FA8828000C34124@> (added by postmaster@resmaa14.ono.com) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:14:18 +0200 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Eduardo Morras In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 2012.0.2180 [2437/5087] Subject: Re: MAGIC with HP KVM - someone will help? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:11:48 -0000 At 17:09 23/06/2012, you wrote: >my friend switched to linux, in spite of lower performance, on his >dedicated fileserver machine with VIA processor, only because >keyboard didn't work when geli asked for password at boot, or - for >whatever reason - in kernel command prompt activated. I don't know but here you have another idea, perhaps geli asks for password and stops boot sequence before the usb stack is loaded and keyboard is recognized. >it works every other case properly. > >I would like to help fixing a problem, but not even have idea how. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 16:16:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A2F0106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:16:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8663D8FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:16:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NGGDp1039717; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:16:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5NGGD1c039714; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:16:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:16:13 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Eduardo Morras In-Reply-To: <4FA8828000C34124@> (added by postmaster@resmaa14.ono.com) Message-ID: References: <4FA8828000C34124@> (added by postmaster@resmaa14.ono.com) User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:16:13 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MAGIC with HP KVM - someone will help? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:16:13 -0000 > I don't know but here you have another idea, perhaps geli asks for password > and stops boot sequence before the usb stack is loaded and keyboard is > recognized. no. it is recognized and keyboard. in my case - keyboard works but if i type too fast (which is faster than about one key per second ;) it stops working > >> it works every other case properly. >> >> I would like to help fixing a problem, but not even have idea how. > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 16:24:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69E891065677 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:24:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com (mailout-us.gmx.com [74.208.5.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0C38C8FC14 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:24:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 14116 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jun 2012 16:24:17 -0000 Received: from 67.206.185.58 by rms-us006.v300.gmx.net with HTTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:24:13 -0400 From: "Dieter BSD" Message-ID: <20120623162415.303430@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Authenticated: #74169980 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GMX-UID: +IiXb+MX3zOlNR3dAHAhOqR+IGRvbwCs Subject: Re: MAGIC with HP KVM - someone will help? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:24:19 -0000 Wojciech writes: > 1) i know for a friend that on some motherboards (it was embedded VIA > based CPU) geli doesn't work at typing password. > > 2) in my case (as well as his case) problems happen everytime kernel > function cngets is used, it maybe after being unable to mount root in > a kernel prompt. > > The problem IS FreeBSD specific AND some hardware specific. > > this seems like an interaction between FreeBSD and some hardware > (timings?). Really have no idea. >> I refuse to move from the keyboard I have currently, and occasionally >> keys get 'stuck'.... but it's so obvious when it happens it's no big >> hardship. I have a Belkin adaptor one by the way, and it works > but the PROBABLY FReeBSD specific is that some configuration, not > only USB to PS/2 adapters, have problems only when kernel cngets routine. > > my friend switched to linux, in spite of lower performance, on his > dedicated fileserver machine with VIA processor, only because keyboard > didn't work when geli asked for password at boot, or - for whatever reason > - in kernel command prompt activated. > > it works every other case properly. This reminds me of a problem I have when using a RS-232 console. When the loader is sitting there waiting for a few seconds to see if you will type something, it doesn't always notice keystrokes. I would have to hold the key down (letting it autorepeat) and then it would usually notice. This problem does not happen with the PS/2 keyboard. (no KVM, no USB adapters) If it is a timing problem, perhaps it is related? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 16:58:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54E2D1065674; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:58:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from mail.zoral.com.ua (mx0.zoral.com.ua [91.193.166.200]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E30A68FC0A; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:58:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.zoral.com.ua (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5NGwNm1022895; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:58:23 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (kostik@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NGwNsj064794; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:58:23 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: (from kostik@localhost) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5NGwNaT064793; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:58:23 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:58:23 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: davidxu@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120623165823.GX2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> References: <201206182256.30535.dcherednik@roshianokatachi.com> <201206210811.20427.jhb@freebsd.org> <4FE55F91.5070303@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="qBOV/12gVmFoc0GF" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FE55F91.5070303@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.2 at skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Daniil Cherednik Subject: Re: Fast syscalls via sysenter X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:58:30 -0000 --qBOV/12gVmFoc0GF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 02:17:53PM +0800, David Xu wrote: > On 2012/06/21 20:11, John Baldwin wrote: > >On Monday, June 18, 2012 2:56:30 pm Daniil Cherednik wrote: > >>Hi! > >> > >>I am trying to continue the work started by DavidXu on implemention of= =20 > >>fast > >>syscalls via sysenter/sysexit. > >>http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/ > >>I have ported it on FreeBSD9. It looks like it works. Unfortunately I a= m a > >>beginner in kernel so I have some questions: > >> > >>1. see http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/kernel.patch > >>/* > >>* If %edx was changed, we can not use sysexit, because it > >>* needs %edx to restore userland %eip. > >>*/ > >>if (orig_edx !=3D frame.tf_edx) > >> td->td_pcb->pcb_flags |=3D PCB_FULLCTX; > >> > >>What is the reason why we have to do this additional check? In > >>http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/sysenter.s > >>we store %edx to the stack in > >>pushl %edx /* ring 3 next %eip */ > >>and we restore the register in > >>popl %edx /* ring 3 %eip */ > >Some system calls return two return values (pipe(2)) or return a 64-bit > >off_t (lseek(2)). Those system calls change %edx's value and need that > >changed value to make it out to userland. > > > >>2. see http://people.freebsd.org/~davidxu/sysenter/kernel/sysenter.s > >>movl PCPU(CURPCB),%esi > >>call syscall > >> > >>Why do we movl PCPU(CURPCB),%esi before calling syscall? syscall is ju= st=20 > >>c- > >>function. > >No clue on this one, looks like it is not needed. > > > [kib@ is cc'ed] > I implemented the sysenter syscall long time ago, it indeed can reduce > system call overhead on i386. I think it might be the time to implement > linux like vdso syscall now based on the work kib@ recently has done, > though I don''t know how to hook it into kib's code. > I quick googled it, and found they put some data into aux vector: > http://www.trilithium.com/johan/2005/08/linux-gate/ > http://www.takatan.net/lxr/source/arch/um/os-Linux/elf_aux.c?a=3Dx86_64#L= 40 Yes, intent is to eventually switch to VDSO from current situation were libc is aware of shared page content. This was extensively discussed in flame that resulted in me writing the current gettimeofday(2) patch. It was arch@ several weeks ago, AFAIR. Committed gettimeofday() code structure allows for VDSO interposing without breaking normal symbol visibility rules. I do not see a sense in implementing syscall or sysenter support for i386 kernel. On the other hand, using syscall for 32bit binaries on amd64 looks reasonable. --qBOV/12gVmFoc0GF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/l9a4ACgkQC3+MBN1Mb4hCfACgqHGnquHF6p96npl7HJyERWfN rpkAoJRdG8/IWtROWbSVhAaSBqiqCJt5 =6qU8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --qBOV/12gVmFoc0GF-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 17:14:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 972C5106566B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:14:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johans@stack.nl) Received: from mx1.stack.nl (relay04.stack.nl [IPv6:2001:610:1108:5010::107]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2812E8FC0C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:14:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mx1.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 1D9D81DD5BC; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:14:09 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-DCC: wuwien: scanner01.stack.nl 1290; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on scanner01.stack.nl X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Relay-Country: _RELAYCOUNTRY_ Received: from mud.stack.nl (mud.stack.nl [131.155.141.70]) by mx1.stack.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43E3A1DD5AD; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:14:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mud.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 801) id 3B94C96537; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:14:07 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:14:07 +0200 From: Johan van Selst To: rank1seeker@gmail.com Message-ID: <20120623171407.GA32232@mud.stack.nl> References: <20120622.192538.734.2@DOMY-PC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="AhhlLboLdkugWU4S" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120622.192538.734.2@DOMY-PC> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: tcsh's exit codes X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:14:11 -0000 --AhhlLboLdkugWU4S Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote: > There is something wrong with tcsh shell: > > # mergemaster -V | grep '\--run-updates' > Returned exit code 1 > # mergemaster -V | grep -q '\--run-updates' > Returned exit code 141 I believe this has been a feature of csh and tcsh since the dark ages. Negative status codes propagate through pipelines (and through backtick sub-commands as well). In fact the returned $status value is the value of the last command that returned an error (non-zero) status code. This makes it easy to determine if a pipeline command sequence has failed. The 141 status code indicates a sigpipe: the pipeline was not completely read (as described in the grep manual for this case). This also is the common exit code when using head(1) for example. This error-propagation behaviour can be suppessed with 'unset anyerror' in tcsh. In that case it should work as you expect. But note that your commands are no longer compatible with 'good old' csh behaviour then. Regards, Johan --AhhlLboLdkugWU4S Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF4EAREIAAYFAk/l+V4ACgkQAEpMHW8nCPTzagD/YrtplIISlVDTgfVjxCpVeS1s 7oK6OJ5+AoIfx09ra8sA/iGXuJEuhRx2LTZQFfIEwch1foGDiOIqzW64fII/ZENg =Dliq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --AhhlLboLdkugWU4S-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 17:47:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D56F1106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:47:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B1988FC1B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:47:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NHlobb040099; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:47:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5NHloJ1040096; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:47:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:47:50 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Dieter BSD In-Reply-To: <20120623162415.303430@gmx.com> Message-ID: References: <20120623162415.303430@gmx.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:47:50 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MAGIC with HP KVM - someone will help? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:47:53 -0000 > This reminds me of a problem I have when using a RS-232 console. > When the loader is sitting there waiting for a few seconds to see > if you will type something, it doesn't always notice keystrokes. > I would have to hold the key down (letting it autorepeat) and then > it would usually notice. This problem does not happen with the > PS/2 keyboard. (no KVM, no USB adapters) If it is a timing problem, > perhaps it is related? probably not. keyboard workd in loader perfectly. As well as it works perfectly after "mounting root"