From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 1 10:18:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0020A1065676 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 10:18:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from se@freebsd.org) Received: from nm8.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com (nm8.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com [77.238.189.23]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 639618FC20 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 10:18:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [77.238.189.234] by nm8.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2012 10:18:03 -0000 Received: from [217.146.189.246] by tm15.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2012 10:18:03 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp111.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jul 2012 10:18:03 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 600877.35538.bm@smtp111.mail.ird.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: cvcCQvwVM1nfdEv6tz51PK1O3y6oBHSe4cOoORYUHZUxs4v s0eaxaABAzpiO593u2LoULxJwOH87OBwW__ZphfCp2k2r95ZrNdPiHjjIP4U a_c9ouGFJo4bKWPQaLM188i7ai0CZIPigSCKM_p47lINsgIBYUdo1GLYAmcn jUhbcKJxuw2.trourhIGup4I2d5rcH3xHk.qms.kBPAEIyR43aB40erxLHAx IpWEylkywqN.te5FO2yW9qY.b5FGlgvmKPeLFsO4sZGaxdG6cNWVh8J0kwu2 9IkPRBKEftVjztOB.Ub0j4JcUWJtEk6Oo2wKmC79WMxEudzCKSy3tLKdU8qh 6CI3gIXmAhfHoeQYRYQ9YRnVgNV6i0M91Z83KLGwhEen_oSnnIg3.ki0vXto CuvPRBVOny9ALcMBc.QM1B0qaoHXKUYFsYYNsAbTOzaD11rL714pw3hp2HlN L8GCQk45Z8Aa6pISRNha_WXRb625vezYVero.EJ8N5odkTWjVWBKgxZjiSl7 4h7TviT9hdWfvIyMjlgzODsd3Ou5wzwO7tvPt1NVUCAF45L8bb15UIPJLmPk alsNUe8pll.Pp2kJRkuYAlGTDJlJ3UPKH8EK8CW3bzXe1HcXhtkDA.hk- X-Yahoo-SMTP: iDf2N9.swBDAhYEh7VHfpgq0lnq. Received: from [192.168.119.11] (se@81.173.144.247 with plain) by smtp111.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 01 Jul 2012 03:18:03 -0700 PDT Message-ID: <4FF023DF.8000003@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 12:18:07 +0200 From: Stefan Esser User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD developers References: <4FEAA3C1.2040807@freebsd.org> <4FECBBC1.3000800@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <4FECBBC1.3000800@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [RFT/RFC]: Please test NSCD patch (was: Re: [PATCH] Fix for negative cacheing problem in NSCD) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 10:18:06 -0000 [Since I did not receive any feedback on my previous message to the -hackers list, I try again and CC: to -current in the hope to attract more interest ...] The NSCD patch attached to the previous mail, which can be found at: http://www.mail-archive.com/freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org/msg164538.html It fixes an often reported problem with negative cacheing in NSCD: E.g. when a new user account is created, there is a query for this username to give a meaningful reply to the user, if that username has been choosen before. The query result is cached, and if the username was not found and a new account is created, NSCD does not notice and returns the "user does not exist" result for the cache's time-to-live duration that is configured for negative queries (default is 60 seconds, could be increased when the patch is applied). The patch fixes the scenario given by marking the first negative reply as preliminary result and requires further queries to the original data source to deliver the same result before the cached value is used and the data source is not queried again. I'd want to commit this patch to -CURRENT within the next week, if there are no objections. The patch does not violate POLA, since it does not change the behavior without an additional configuration line in /etc/nscd.conf. Before I commit the patch I'd appreciate the following feedback: 1) Does it work for you with your data sources (e.g. LDAP) (The patch has worked on my box in the cases I tested.) 2) Should the defaults be changed, e.g. the negative confidence threshold could be set to 3 with a timeout of 10 minutes instead of the current values of 1 and 1 minute. (I plan to commit the change without change to the defaults to prevent a violation of POLA, unless there are strong arguments in favor of changed defaults.) 3) Is there a better name for the new option? I used "negative-confidence-threshold" since I could not think of a simpler/shorter name to express its purpose. 4) Is the patch to the man page comprehensible? Any suggestions to improve the wording? 5) I also added support for retries on positive cache results, which might for example help with DNS based load balancing. For example "positive-confidence-threshold hosts 4" will require 4 identical DNS replies before the cache trusts its contents and stops sending DNS queries. This may or may not be useful; the feature came at negligible cost, and so I kept it in the attached patch, but might as well commit a stripped down version that only supports negative cacheing. The patch was attached to my previous mail and is also available from: http://people.freebsd.org/~se/nscd-Negative-Threshold.patch Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 1 15:57:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 161FD1065672 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 15:57:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDAF28FC0C for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 15:57:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so7118020pbb.13 for ; Sun, 01 Jul 2012 08:57:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=zNnkOVOMNVXg9apIQccztFFItoUZ+wQKcsxBr306G0s=; b=yxQX2j5X+s+D1y3awSHhmQ4azVv0ksSmyfZJKXND8OkYk1E9BgbaG2fNnif2RQ72mP hNBnz8SMB9MFR4bVKLtg2M/hFQYWnma6Pg+148nWm7nGIlj4tlz0nzg7yuEkuJU0AbTd zqnI90ViUiLj7m23qGBmXwQDlrm3zXzu63w2mo7iABQYYZHMOwoA0yqqpRk0+DTBQjlI fHiVrofUfuf0khHnQ6U4vPzO1V67+fkZBIp8gqgmCe5zaJZCz08nHOQcECQto9nKCxyx AqPv4mI8hBjkawq0Aqbhpud3N1PGg2xi0mromtZUoMGdqE/KuxHGqFIyvJn2JtAGWiFU u99w== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.66.73.69 with SMTP id j5mr8645590pav.8.1341158251411; Sun, 01 Jul 2012 08:57:31 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.68.195.102 with HTTP; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 08:57:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FEE0D2F.4010808@rawbw.com> References: <4FEE0D2F.4010808@rawbw.com> Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 08:57:31 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: BKZXnOTvqEmnMmSdff0SAA1lGw8 Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Yuri Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System is flooded with failed read(2) calls: Resource temporarily unavailable (errno=35) coming from xorg unix socket X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 15:57:32 -0000 Ah! I'm not the only person seeing this. On 29 June 2012 13:16, Yuri wrote: > When I run dtrace script (attached) on 9.0 amd64 with kde4 I see a lot of > failed read(2) calls from the xorg socket /tmp/.X11-unix/X0 . > This can't be right in my opinion. This means that code keeps reading from > this socket and failing, instead of using select(2) or kquere(2). > Requests mostly come from kdeinit4 but some also from kwin, chrome and even > Xorg itself. > Rate of failure for read(2) calls is ~2500/sec systemwide. > > This is of course not a deadly problem. > But is this situation considered to be normal? I haven't yet done digging to see if poll() is returning the xorg socket as being ready. I think that's worth doing. And it's a huge problem for battery consumption. :) Adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 1 16:34:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B5581065673; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 16:34:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from br@jail.io) Received: from mx.bsdpad.com (mx.bsdpad.com [46.4.68.80]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDA328FC0C; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 16:34:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx.bsdpad.com ([46.4.68.80] helo=jail.io) by mx.bsdpad.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SlN5j-000LE8-VJ; Sun, 01 Jul 2012 20:33:44 +0400 Received: (from br@localhost) by jail.io (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q61GXhEc081599; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 16:33:43 GMT (envelope-from br) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 20:33:43 +0400 From: Ruslan Bukin To: John Baldwin Message-ID: <20120701163343.GA81569@jail.io> References: <20120620204441.GA63638@jail.io> <201206210812.41137.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120622091146.GA5305@jail.io> <201206221023.46697.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120622164425.GA13364@jail.io> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120622164425.GA13364@jail.io> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: newbus / snd_hdspe(4) trouble X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 16:34:03 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:44:25PM +0400, Ruslan Bukin wrote: > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:23:46AM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > On Friday, June 22, 2012 5:11:46 am Ruslan Bukin wrote: > > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 08:12:41AM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 4:44:41 pm Ruslan Bukin wrote: > > > > > Hi. > > > > > > > > > > I have the problem with different behavior of snd_hdspe(4) sound card > > > > > driver initialization. [..] > > > > > > > > > The snd_hdspe driver probably needs to use DRIVER_MODULE_ORDERED() to ensure > > > > the other modules in its kld are registered with new-bus before it tries to > > > > attach to devices. > > > > > > I have changed, but no success. > > > > > > hdspe.c: > > > DRIVER_MODULE_ORDERED(snd_hdspe, pci, hdspe_driver, pcm_devclass, 0, 0, SI_ORDER_SECOND); > > > > Try making this one use SI_ORDER_ANY. > > Also no success. I have added bus_generic_attach(dev) call, and now works fine. the problem is resolved > > -Ruslan > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 1 20:11:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 558B8106566C; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 20:11:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell0.rawbw.com (shell0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37FC58FC08; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 20:11:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from eagle.yuri.org (stunnel@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by shell0.rawbw.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q61KBHiw052865; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 13:11:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Message-ID: <4FF0AEE1.5040607@rawbw.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 13:11:13 -0700 From: Yuri User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120625 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Chadd References: <4FEE0D2F.4010808@rawbw.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System is flooded with failed read(2) calls: Resource temporarily unavailable (errno=35) coming from xorg unix socket X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 20:11:28 -0000 On 07/01/2012 08:57, Adrian Chadd wrote: > I haven't yet done digging to see if poll() is returning the xorg > socket as being ready. I think that's worth doing. > > And it's a huge problem for battery consumption.:) For simple qt4 apps, reads in question originate from libxcb from _xcb_in_read function. I tried to replace read with poll in there but poll just blocks: //int n = read(c->fd, c->in.queue + c->in.queue_len, sizeof(c->in.queue) - c->in.queue_len); struct pollfd fds = {c->fd, POLLIN|POLLERR|POLLHUP, INFTIM}; int n = poll(&fds, 1, INFTIM); poll hangs during the third call in simple test app, because poll_for_response is called during XFlush when it is nothing to actually read. So some of libX11 code should be changed to only call poll when response is expected. Otherwise it looks like poll indeed returns xorg socket as being ready. Yuri From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 1 20:27:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B41271065672 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 20:27:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86C1C8FC12 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 20:27:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so7274502pbb.13 for ; Sun, 01 Jul 2012 13:27:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=WQxYQmU8Q9Hz2h0ZgzCQUAiKu9vTxDoZ14jwsaZEXFg=; b=i8bH79jqFXJcObxLDJLDS8DEaOqF6Ew1W/idE/NSqP64+FrtNN3HyVmY9sGpj4voew FHdGupBOdOhM8BfR5dXRccm7xdrydc9mRsXJ9tI1TdnWdaH6JvQ0PxcoP11/wHfPwQzm XDUVkZjPib/r/0mKmE4HgEGp1UUyPvlDmUNNmr0wp6CXaJsPE0dtpRBXmc7nWP4QGv0/ o++3pn5snaEYYKtCNhJgFfpqcRypMRVVXRln2gyfEzaA2JMiaF8sk01BXyiHh6iDqWVN coJyezmfDpLzzySkwv0iwbc/L0RihEelgKRG0wu/9Od++mPJeM4fJMuDHE5CCJTQTifE 89xw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.66.78.42 with SMTP id y10mr16303191paw.31.1341174427392; Sun, 01 Jul 2012 13:27:07 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.68.195.102 with HTTP; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 13:27:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FF0AEE1.5040607@rawbw.com> References: <4FEE0D2F.4010808@rawbw.com> <4FF0AEE1.5040607@rawbw.com> Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 13:27:07 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7Tzpr_jTXMsB8HzP-DWWfKovBXg Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Yuri Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System is flooded with failed read(2) calls: Resource temporarily unavailable (errno=35) coming from xorg unix socket X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 20:27:07 -0000 Hm, can you try it with an xorg TCP socket versus an xorg UNIX socket and see if the behaviour differs? Adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 1 21:38:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70E581065673; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 21:38:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell0.rawbw.com (shell0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CBA38FC1A; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 21:38:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from eagle.yuri.org (stunnel@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by shell0.rawbw.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q61LcTHe064975; Sun, 1 Jul 2012 14:38:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Message-ID: <4FF0C352.6010805@rawbw.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 14:38:26 -0700 From: Yuri User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120625 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Chadd References: <4FEE0D2F.4010808@rawbw.com> <4FF0AEE1.5040607@rawbw.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System is flooded with failed read(2) calls: Resource temporarily unavailable (errno=35) coming from xorg unix socket X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:38:35 -0000 On 07/01/2012 13:27, Adrian Chadd wrote: > Hm, can you try it with an xorg TCP socket versus an xorg UNIX socket > and see if the behaviour differs? TCP connection exhibits exactly the same behavior. Yuri From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 08:26:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C530A106566B for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 08:26:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21AD98FC0C for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 08:26:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so7839024pbb.13 for ; Mon, 02 Jul 2012 01:26:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=s+D9+fFU54jZouxy8px/qPOpxx0lHR4XHq5FjNLEF7s=; b=DVjVI7XbrWdDmRrp6Rw+eO6eY/vxNAZfQFWym4RNW0qHDKuUZTO/1+UDSuhOEBcIma 673QzqYSq41ML6IUJNzc+OfqJtInxNJ91kJerY1yMl4qNqlo1bZODaIlqpLV0F3kxODd q6RET5f7enZ4HYy91L7Anq6lo8rARMM8FYsiceUSkuctUglIagpDGYrlN1UW6VKdMTXg 5DI3GA/zUcQdy6KdO0LY8a3CJXGXScFzdmQPFiw8uA6jCxzmgA04SU/TVSVvDeWOwRVK ictTMMI9LJX6RtKiS36d1DCgT3e17a7gIjXJvxs8jjoRLYrI+UoVeKGDRLHbvL1CiPmM p15A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.222.163 with SMTP id qn3mr28370359pbc.135.1341217603699; Mon, 02 Jul 2012 01:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.68.195.102 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 01:26:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FF0C352.6010805@rawbw.com> References: <4FEE0D2F.4010808@rawbw.com> <4FF0AEE1.5040607@rawbw.com> <4FF0C352.6010805@rawbw.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 01:26:43 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: dtxy-59Q4KiSzjhoS0yonfff5fo Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Yuri Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System is flooded with failed read(2) calls: Resource temporarily unavailable (errno=35) coming from xorg unix socket X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 08:26:44 -0000 On 1 July 2012 14:38, Yuri wrote: > On 07/01/2012 13:27, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> >> Hm, can you try it with an xorg TCP socket versus an xorg UNIX socket >> and see if the behaviour differs? > > > TCP connection exhibits exactly the same behavior. Ok, so something is really really odd here. Are you able to dig deeper into what the socket code in xorg is doing wrong? It'd certainly be nice to fix all of this stuff up. Thanks so much for digging into this! It's been annoying me, but I've just been ridiculously busy trying to bring up some more Atheors wifi chipset support in FreeBSD. Adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 08:28:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CE881065715; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 08:28:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@freebsd.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 342678FC08; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 08:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.2.111] (host86-149-82-83.range86-149.btcentralplus.com [86.149.82.83]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6D4C946B1A; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 04:28:37 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: "Robert N. M. Watson" In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:28:35 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: mdf@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: bp@freebsd.org, Arnaud Lacombe , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current , kby@freebsd.org, Wojciech Puchar , Chris Rees Subject: Re: sysctl filesystem ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 08:28:42 -0000 On 26 Jun 2012, at 15:42, mdf@FreeBSD.org wrote: > While I understand the problems you allude to, the sysctl(8) binary > can protect itself from them. IMO the biggest problem with sysctls > not being files is that it makes no sense from the core UNIX > philosophy that everything is a file. Sockets and pipes and character > devices and even unseekable things like stdout are files; why aren't > these other objects that allow read, write, and have their own > namespace? I think I agree with what you're saying, subject to one modification: = rather than saying "files", say "file descriptors", which are not quite = the same but are, I think, what you mean. This doesn't mean you end up = with a special file system mounted on /foo -- we don't do that for = sockets or pipes --- but rather, we end up with using a similar = object-oriented interface. And hence, BTW, our recent experimental = addition of process descriptors to the API in support of Capsicum. = However, I wonder how well that applies to sysctls, which unlike = pipes/sockets, don't have an event model, etc... Robert= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 09:42:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 038F0106566B for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:42:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9BFA8FC0A for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:42:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F22761B402F for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:42:46 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF16CA4.2040700@gentoo.org> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 05:40:52 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120628 Thunderbird/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "hackers@FreeBSD.org" X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig6F5A96D2385B07D0A9E0744D" Cc: Subject: How does bootinfo64.c find read_eflags() and write_eflags() on amd64? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 09:42:56 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig6F5A96D2385B07D0A9E0744D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable /usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/bootinfo64.c uses read_eflags() and write_eflags(), which live as inline functions in /usr/src/sys/i386/include/cpufunc.h. /usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/bootinfo64.c also includes /usr/include/machine/cpufunc.h, but that is /usr/src/sys/amd64/include/cpufunc.h on amd64, which does not contain either of them. I do not understand how FreeBSD's build system finds these. I am trying to build /usr/src/sys/boot on Gentoo Linux, but Gentoo Linux does not understand this either: # env CFLAGS=3D"-march=3Dcore2 -mtune=3Dcore2 -O2 -pipe -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -D__FreeBSD__=3D9 -D__FBSDID\(x\)=3D -nostdinc -I/var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/include_proper" MACHINE_CPUARCH=3Damd64 MACHINE_ARCH=3Damd64 MAKESYSPATH=3D/usr/share/mk/freebsd pmake Warning: Object directory not changed from original /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader cc -march=3Dcore2 -mtune=3Dcore2 -O2 -pipe -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -D__FreeBSD__=3D9 -D__FBSDID\(x\)=3D -nostdinc -I/var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/include_proper -DLOADER_NFS_SUPPORT -DBOOT_FORTH -I/var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../fic= l -I/var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../fic= l/i386 -DLOADER_GZIP_SUPPORT -DLOADER_GPT_SUPPORT -I/var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../com= mon -I. -Wall -I/var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/.. -I/var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../btx/li= b -ffreestanding -mpreferred-stack-boundary=3D2 -mno-mmx -mno-3dnow -mno-sse -mno-sse2 -mno-sse3 -msoft-float -m32 -march=3Di386 -std=3Dgnu99= -static -Wl,-Ttext,0x0 -nostdlib -Wl,-m,elf_i386 -o loader.sym /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../btx/lib/= crt0.o main.o conf.o vers.o boot.o commands.o console.o devopen.o disk.o interp.o interp_backslash.o interp_parse.o ls.o misc.o module.o panic.o load_elf32.o load_elf32_obj.o reloc_elf32.o load_elf64.o load_elf64_obj.o reloc_elf64.o bcache.o isapnp.o pnp.o interp_forth.o /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../ficl/= libficl.a /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../libi386/= libi386.a /usr/lib/libstand.a /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../libi386/= libi386.a(bootinfo64.o): In function `bi_load64': bootinfo64.c:(.text+0x45a): undefined reference to `read_eflags' bootinfo64.c:(.text+0x469): undefined reference to `write_eflags' bootinfo64.c:(.text+0x46e): undefined reference to `read_eflags' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status *** Error code 1 Stop. pmake: stopped in /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader How does bootinfo64.c obtain these symbols on FreeBSD? --------------enig6F5A96D2385B07D0A9E0744D Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJP8WynAAoJECDuEZm+6ExkCcMP/0uZ5mr5JQV29cf0PYsDcf3j uLjfgeeKNNlGQnc+N+wmKtuWXZuoqAY6HkXtk4dZcY3FsIynkbA7WE7edWedGcUY mZ8BMN3rcJYx6FJSTnp4tz+X9to4xrchomiRA/7evO306myAmRz0eM629ozX6cMY s7q1soM3q01BZDRKUfOU6DT/sg6O3xfaQtVhy6jUpjSqaq1kFcqbVwi2mq5N6GhD fn9V50r0Kfqje5bLTEiaReBPUt2uxMoUBv5TI4hp23J4FfWuuJuCbLzKrVv17wVq GyKgU8wHkuWnBnUqj0di44ZsnQeS7tetzFHM1xBpZ/ymPhQ62fvfJAMlenlhthX0 yhq4ILf7x0TXJuH9avWEZXMnvmV+J/yXfZyJ6nNEBreWsVBscBbOOqLr1gnVEDTT IBrI/2JjqsTA86AQoZ7g2WCF3k2ZqFJCZVcgpCGtzTD+rQhXk6mDKtHl3JWwndNH gurUZtdo1A02pZB7FGQJ3x9l2KzeP8dkvpxK9RHCmemzKCTSPRkLWT02l5v8EV8B 6El5UpGyn3PUa6YJDhYqqwkPeYDmD2XTAQAF+tRjKEzaRJOYdmc2IL16uRJtrn88 SiP3+V2CK4aAQWog+5x9+NO+Tz+RJU7fbMot7QAR9ax8MHsPVvwNpoM9Y3iqcBK/ Y1B2pQpdDcbjARJHJIKO =kpkQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig6F5A96D2385B07D0A9E0744D-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 09:44:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E7F106566B; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:44:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell0.rawbw.com (shell0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B3808FC1E; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:44:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from eagle.yuri.org (stunnel@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by shell0.rawbw.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q629iVfT045079; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 02:44:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Message-ID: <4FF16D7B.1080806@rawbw.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 02:44:27 -0700 From: Yuri User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120625 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Chadd References: <4FEE0D2F.4010808@rawbw.com> <4FF0AEE1.5040607@rawbw.com> <4FF0C352.6010805@rawbw.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System is flooded with failed read(2) calls: Resource temporarily unavailable (errno=35) coming from xorg unix socket X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 09:44:39 -0000 On 07/02/2012 01:26, Adrian Chadd wrote: > Ok, so something is really really odd here. Are you able to dig deeper > into what the socket code in xorg is doing wrong? It'd certainly be > nice to fix all of this stuff up. > > Thanks so much for digging into this! It's been annoying me, but I've > just been ridiculously busy trying to bring up some more Atheors wifi > chipset support in FreeBSD. To begin with, I filed the xorg PR for this to see what xorg maintainers think of this issue, if anything at all: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51648 I find it hard to believe that nobody ever fixed this issue on any platform where xorg is running. Yuri From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 09:49:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DD671065672 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:49:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAB2E8FC0A for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:49:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so10328779obb.13 for ; Mon, 02 Jul 2012 02:49:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=dyoq6Kg29a4QD7VmC/o25V+eH9F5UAhCJ7Bzg7qN7CU=; b=srdHU36oXsnfOkvHyqpxx8kr+on7jA2/Mlx8qALF78FylkZKjW3ir6pAiAj5u35gh5 VZUD69lf2J32uanmAN36cxvZ6Up47GxGW2a8WK2JaCCZnwLaPjXU8D1zs2qFnAlaFIPG fsqykgdt79j9RlMJou4fmYtpP9/OaESH4SEWtkRuVy9jTpmE6b8VZnVQed35aCLHCu/w r3T/LEDvaa+ZIXh4Q0QTOGKJFt9kGlB7mLhYpkzupPxeD6aRdb+dcKDole+zh86fcR4h Zk9Z279do2B4a4PdZS2I43d5dn46bPsS/ohrvgzozTSWHGj23roH0EtQ8bCuE8YNAMPA tMTQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.3.194 with SMTP id e2mr12850382oee.1.1341222577168; Mon, 02 Jul 2012 02:49:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.84.7 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 02:49:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FF16CA4.2040700@gentoo.org> References: <4FF16CA4.2040700@gentoo.org> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 02:49:37 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Richard Yao Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: How does bootinfo64.c find read_eflags() and write_eflags() on amd64? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 09:49:38 -0000 On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 2:40 AM, Richard Yao wrote: > /usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/bootinfo64.c uses read_eflags() and > write_eflags(), which live as inline functions in > /usr/src/sys/i386/include/cpufunc.h. > /usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/bootinfo64.c also includes > /usr/include/machine/cpufunc.h, but that is > /usr/src/sys/amd64/include/cpufunc.h on amd64, which does not contain > either of them. > > I do not understand how FreeBSD's build system finds these. I am trying > to build /usr/src/sys/boot on Gentoo Linux, but Gentoo Linux does not > understand this either: > > # env CFLAGS="-march=core2 -mtune=core2 -O2 -pipe -O2 > -fno-strict-aliasing -D__FreeBSD__=9 -D__FBSDID\(x\)= -nostdinc > -I/var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/include_proper" > MACHINE_CPUARCH=amd64 MACHINE_ARCH=amd64 > MAKESYSPATH=/usr/share/mk/freebsd pmake > Warning: Object directory not changed from original > /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader > cc -march=core2 -mtune=core2 -O2 -pipe -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing > -D__FreeBSD__=9 -D__FBSDID\(x\)= -nostdinc > -I/var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/include_proper > -DLOADER_NFS_SUPPORT -DBOOT_FORTH > -I/var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../ficl > -I/var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../ficl/i386 > -DLOADER_GZIP_SUPPORT -DLOADER_GPT_SUPPORT > -I/var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../common > -I. -Wall > -I/var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/.. > -I/var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../btx/lib > -ffreestanding -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -mno-mmx -mno-3dnow > -mno-sse -mno-sse2 -mno-sse3 -msoft-float -m32 -march=i386 -std=gnu99 > -static -Wl,-Ttext,0x0 -nostdlib -Wl,-m,elf_i386 -o loader.sym > /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../btx/lib/crt0.o > main.o conf.o vers.o boot.o commands.o console.o devopen.o disk.o > interp.o interp_backslash.o interp_parse.o ls.o misc.o module.o panic.o > load_elf32.o load_elf32_obj.o reloc_elf32.o load_elf64.o > load_elf64_obj.o reloc_elf64.o bcache.o isapnp.o pnp.o interp_forth.o > /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../../ficl/libficl.a > > /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../libi386/libi386.a > /usr/lib/libstand.a > /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader/../libi386/libi386.a(bootinfo64.o): > In function `bi_load64': > bootinfo64.c:(.text+0x45a): undefined reference to `read_eflags' > bootinfo64.c:(.text+0x469): undefined reference to `write_eflags' > bootinfo64.c:(.text+0x46e): undefined reference to `read_eflags' > collect2: ld returned 1 exit status > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > pmake: stopped in > /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/boot0-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/loader > > How does bootinfo64.c obtain these symbols on FreeBSD? Via patterns like the following sprinkled around Makefiles under sys/boot that link things to their "proper spots": ln -sf ${.CURDIR}/../../../${MACHINE_CPUARCH}/include machine Cheers, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 11:12:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 604C2106566B for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 11:12:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) Received: from mailhost.m5p.com (ip-2-1-0-2.r03.asbnva02.us.ce.gin.ntt.net [IPv6:2001:418:0:5000::16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 147478FC14 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 11:12:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonderland.m5p.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mailhost.m5p.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q62BCM4O067994 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 07:12:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) Message-ID: <4FF18216.3070207@m5p.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 07:12:22 -0400 From: George Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120609 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (mailhost.m5p.com [IPv6:::1]); Mon, 02 Jul 2012 07:12:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.72 on 10.100.0.3 Subject: Browsing over IPv6 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 11:12:29 -0000 With both firefox and chrome, if I browse to http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/bos the computer hangs forever "Waiting for l.yimg.com". If I browse to http://dvd.netflix.com/, the computer hangs forever "Waiting for cdn-0.nflxing.com". I've been using IPv6 for quite a few years without problems and I've had no difficulty browsing www.ipv6.org and other IPv6 sites over IPv6, and my system serves www.worldcon.org over IPv6 as well. Further, I can ping6 and traceroute6 to both l.yimg.com and cdn-0.nflxing.com, and I can even telnet to port 80 of those two sites (but I get errors trying to "GET / HTTP/1.1"). So what's the most likely point of failure? -- George From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 11:41:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C61B11065670 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 11:41:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from mx0.gid.co.uk (mx0.gid.co.uk [194.32.164.250]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 606E88FC17 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 11:41:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [194.32.164.22] (80-46-130-69.static.dsl.as9105.com [80.46.130.69]) by mx0.gid.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q62BecqK047931; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 12:40:38 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Bob Bishop In-Reply-To: <4FF18216.3070207@m5p.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 12:40:33 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <773BE860-47DF-484D-83F3-ABA3457D9319@gid.co.uk> References: <4FF18216.3070207@m5p.com> To: George Mitchell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Browsing over IPv6 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 11:41:27 -0000 Hi, On 2 Jul 2012, at 12:12, George Mitchell wrote: > With both firefox and chrome, if I browse to > http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/bos > the computer hangs forever "Waiting for l.yimg.com". If I browse to > http://dvd.netflix.com/, the computer hangs forever "Waiting for > cdn-0.nflxing.com". > > I've been using IPv6 for quite a few years without problems and I've > had no difficulty browsing www.ipv6.org and other IPv6 sites over IPv6, > and my system serves www.worldcon.org over IPv6 as well. Further, I can > ping6 and traceroute6 to both l.yimg.com and cdn-0.nflxing.com, and I > can even telnet to port 80 of those two sites (but I get errors trying > to "GET / HTTP/1.1"). So what's the most likely point of failure? Possibly DNS. Try http://test-ipv6.com > -- George > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Bob Bishop rb@gid.co.uk From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 15:04:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53E2F106566B for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:04:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AEEE8FC17 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:04:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8B31FB963; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 11:04:35 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Richard Yao Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 10:41:38 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p17; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <4FF16CA4.2040700@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <4FF16CA4.2040700@gentoo.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201207021041.38640.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Mon, 02 Jul 2012 11:04:35 -0400 (EDT) Cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: How does bootinfo64.c find read_eflags() and write_eflags() on amd64? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:04:36 -0000 On Monday, July 02, 2012 5:40:52 am Richard Yao wrote: > /usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/bootinfo64.c uses read_eflags() and > write_eflags(), which live as inline functions in > /usr/src/sys/i386/include/cpufunc.h. > /usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/bootinfo64.c also includes > /usr/include/machine/cpufunc.h, but that is > /usr/src/sys/amd64/include/cpufunc.h on amd64, which does not contain > either of them. The boot utilities on amd64 are built as 32-bit binaries using -m32 and with 'machine' pointing to 'i386' instead of amd64. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 15:09:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32FD11065674 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:09:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82B068FC20 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:09:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q62F9bee003849; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 17:09:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q62F9aVA003846; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 17:09:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 17:09:36 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: George Mitchell In-Reply-To: <4FF18216.3070207@m5p.com> Message-ID: References: <4FF18216.3070207@m5p.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 02 Jul 2012 17:09:37 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Browsing over IPv6 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:09:47 -0000 > to "GET / HTTP/1.1"). So what's the most likely point of failure? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ you already answered your question :) check telnet ... 80 GET http://fullsitename/ HTTP/1.1 if it doesn't work it's their failure From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 15:10:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468621065678 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:10:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DA098FC19 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:10:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q62FA3f6003857; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 17:10:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q62FA3fN003854; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 17:10:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 17:10:03 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Bob Bishop In-Reply-To: <773BE860-47DF-484D-83F3-ABA3457D9319@gid.co.uk> Message-ID: References: <4FF18216.3070207@m5p.com> <773BE860-47DF-484D-83F3-ABA3457D9319@gid.co.uk> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 02 Jul 2012 17:10:03 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, George Mitchell Subject: Re: Browsing over IPv6 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:10:07 -0000 > > Possibly DNS. Try http://test-ipv6.com for sure not. he tested telnet to the same host - by name. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 15:23:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88535106566B for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:23:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joerg@britannica.bec.de) Received: from mo6-p00-ob.rzone.de (mo6-p00-ob.rzone.de [IPv6:2a01:238:20a:202:5300::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A0FA8FC12 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:23:21 +0000 (UTC) X-RZG-AUTH: :JiIXek6mfvEEUpFQdo7Fj1/zg48CFjWjQv0cW+St/nW/avgusCdvwXOZ/NA7x/bslxgXaSyGt2q30/cJecSNjxGIS5J8 X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from britannica.bec.de ([2001:6f8:13f0:0:41d4:9bbe:5125:6e58]) by smtp.strato.de (joses mo94) (RZmta 29.19 AUTH) with (AES128-SHA encrypted) ESMTPA id 503d5do62EMmg9 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 17:23:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: by britannica.bec.de (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 02 Jul 2012 17:23:19 +0200 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 17:23:19 +0200 From: Joerg Sonnenberger To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120702152319.GB13749@britannica.bec.de> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FF18216.3070207@m5p.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: Browsing over IPv6 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:23:22 -0000 On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 05:09:36PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >to "GET / HTTP/1.1"). So what's the most likely point of failure? > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > you already answered your question :) > > check > > > telnet ... 80 > GET http://fullsitename/ HTTP/1.1 Full URL is only valid for proxies. What you want to do is: GET / HTTP/1.0 Host: fullsitename Joerg From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 15:36:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D61A0106564A for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:36:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DDE58FC08 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:36:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q62FaEaX003975; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 17:36:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q62FaDOg003972; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 17:36:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 17:36:13 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Joerg Sonnenberger In-Reply-To: <20120702152319.GB13749@britannica.bec.de> Message-ID: References: <4FF18216.3070207@m5p.com> <20120702152319.GB13749@britannica.bec.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 02 Jul 2012 17:36:14 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Browsing over IPv6 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:36:18 -0000 >> >> telnet ... 80 >> GET http://fullsitename/ HTTP/1.1 > > Full URL is only valid for proxies. What you want to do is: > > GET / HTTP/1.0 > Host: fullsitename > > tested on most sites - ALL three ways do work. Of course yours are proper. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 16:16:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D059106566C for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 16:16:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (m209-73.dsl.rawbw.com [198.144.209.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72768FC20 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 16:16:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q62GG1mv011872 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:16:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@albert.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q62GG1TH011869 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:16:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:16:01 -0700 From: David Wolfskill To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120702161601.GF1754@albert.catwhisker.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="b8GWCKCLzrXbuNet" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: Subject: PORTS_MODULES in src.conf: make: don't know how to make instclean. Stop X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 16:16:02 -0000 --b8GWCKCLzrXbuNet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Huh??!? At least as far back as 06 Jan (based on the mtime of /etc/src.conf), I had set up src.conf to read: PORTS_MODULES=3Dx11/nvidia-driver as I use that driver on my laptop. Further (as some of you may recall), I maintain private mirrors of the src & ports repositories on the laptop, which I re-sync overnight. Then, each morning, I update the /usr/ports working directory, and I also update the /usr/src working copies -- on each of the 4 slices that's bootable: * slice 1 -- stable/8 i386 (gcc) * slice 2 -- stable/9 i386 (clang) * slice 3 -- stable/9 i386 (gcc) * slice 4 -- head i386 (gcc) and boot each slice in turn and perform an in-place source update. Through symlinks, /usr/local is actually shared among all 4 environments, so I build & update installed ports immediately after smoke-testing the newly-built stable/8. By setting up src.conf as above, the nvidia.ko module gets built for each environment; since the module is stored in /boot/modules, it remains specific to each environment. This has been working rather uneventfully for some time... until this morning. Yesterday, I built & booted: FreeBSD g1-227.catwhisker.org 8.3-STABLE FreeBSD 8.3-STABLE #419 237918M: S= un Jul 1 04:14:48 PDT 2012 root@g1-227.catwhisker.org:/common/S1/obj/u= sr/src/sys/CANARY i386 After updating /usr/src to r237994 this morning, the buildworld & buildkernel proceeded without incident. installkernel got through the usual base kernel install and started in on the PORTS_MODULES stuff, when BLAM! I was rather surprised to see: =2E.. kldxref /boot/kernel cd ${PORTSDIR:-/usr/ports}/x11/nvidia-driver; PATH=3D/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/l= egacy/usr/sbin:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/bin:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/leg= acy/usr/games:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/sbin:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin:/u= sr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/games:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:/= usr/local/sbin SRC_BASE=3D/usr/src OSVERSION=3D803500 WRKDIRPREFIX=3D/us= r/obj/usr/src/sys/CANARY /usr/obj/usr/src/make.i386/make -B instclean all make: don't know how to make instclean. Stop *** Error code 2 Stop in /common/S1/obj/usr/src/sys/CANARY. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. Errr... (I repeat): Huh??!? I circumvented this for now by moving /etc/src.conf aside, but that rather defeats the purpose of having created it. :-/ As a bit of a reality check (at that point), I ran "portmaster x11/nvidia-driver", and that ran to completion successfully, but another attempt at "make installkernel" (before I moved src.conf aside) still failed in the same way. It turns out that I encountered precisely the same mode of failure for each of the 4 slices this morning. (Each had been running @r237918M; each was updated to r237994. The "M" suffix on the GRN is merely for my local changes to newvers.sh to make it VCS-agnostic, rather than cluttering it with code for various VCSen that seem to be of interest to some folks.) A quick look for the word "instclean" in /usr/share/mk, /usr/ports/Mk, and /usr/src came up empty. So: What's going on? What is "instclean" supposed to do for us? Was this an error on my part? What sort of evasive action should I be taking to avoid a recurrence (while still keeping my machines up-to-date)? Thanks.... Peace, david --=20 David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org Depriving a girl or boy of an opportunity for education is evil. See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. --b8GWCKCLzrXbuNet Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/xyUAACgkQmprOCmdXAD2sjQCfQCFOH8E0QIqz8fLJ7c4vYbhT ZbQAnjI4PKf+HqNs+F1P4odF5Wy6Dskf =I1PE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --b8GWCKCLzrXbuNet-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 16:25:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5096610657FE for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 16:25:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaduk@mit.edu) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (DMZ-MAILSEC-SCANNER-3.MIT.EDU [18.9.25.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20A78FC1D for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 16:25:12 +0000 (UTC) X-AuditID: 1209190e-b7fb56d0000008b2-09-4ff1cb61236a Received: from mailhub-auth-3.mit.edu ( [18.9.21.43]) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 7B.65.02226.16BC1FF4; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 12:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.103]) by mailhub-auth-3.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id q62GP4cv000968; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 12:25:05 -0400 Received: from multics.mit.edu (MULTICS.MIT.EDU [18.187.1.73]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id q62GP2fR017331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 2 Jul 2012 12:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kaduk@localhost) by multics.mit.edu (8.12.9.20060308) id q62GP10d016945; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 12:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 12:25:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Benjamin Kaduk To: David Wolfskill In-Reply-To: <20120702161601.GF1754@albert.catwhisker.org> Message-ID: References: <20120702161601.GF1754@albert.catwhisker.org> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (GSO 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrOIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixCmqrZt0+qO/we9yi1Nf7rJYbFhQ6MDk sfBJP7PHjE/zWQKYorhsUlJzMstSi/TtErgyZn2QLHjLXHHh6VSWBsY25i5GTg4JAROJ3acX sEHYYhIX7q0Hs4UE9jFKdL9362LkArLXM0q0nn7NDOHsZ5LYdn4DE0RVvcT+lwtYuxg5OFgE tCSWrNUHCbMJqEjMfLMRbJAIULjrxhsWEJtZQFxi4b1eMFtYIEzi0vY2sDGcAlYS3Y8amEDG 8Ao4SjxYYwIx3VJi45RlYOWiAjoSq/dPAbN5BQQlTs58AjXSUuLf2l+sExgFZyFJzUKSWsDI tIpRNiW3Sjc3MTOnODVZtzg5MS8vtUjXWC83s0QvNaV0EyM4PCX5djB+Pah0iFGAg1GJh1f5 9gd/IdbEsuLK3EOMkhxMSqK8m45/9BfiS8pPqcxILM6ILyrNSS0+xCjBwawkwht3BCjHm5JY WZValA+TkuZgURLnvZJy019IID2xJDU7NbUgtQgmK8PBoSTBe/AUUKNgUWp6akVaZk4JQpqJ gxNkOA/Q8B0gNbzFBYm5xZnpEPlTjIpSQKNBEgIgiYzSPLheWPp4xSgO9Iow7xKQKh5g6oHr fgU0mAlo8PPV70AGlyQipKQaGL1S13e9q3xqUfNaMn23zLXt17wCNnpFfBWZb7+vMX+qWLX5 vwUJHRMn+z2xCt1jnl+ufaW/RXXZA7l3ppLWwmoX1Iu2hNvtDWxftFlSOL+l7pjU5ieXbzRd Zgy/ePQ2c+3Dm1fKT5/p6C7lnvHqmp90wt4zMvuP/+28vSxeOUz110Sb52KB1kosxRmJhlrM RcWJAJYdkGn6AgAA Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PORTS_MODULES in src.conf: make: don't know how to make instclean. Stop X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 16:25:13 -0000 On Mon, 2 Jul 2012, David Wolfskill wrote: > Huh??!? > > At least as far back as 06 Jan (based on the mtime of /etc/src.conf), I > had set up src.conf to read: > > PORTS_MODULES=x11/nvidia-driver "Don't do that." PORTS_MODULES is documented to belong in make.conf, not src.conf. That said, dougb has tweaked the behavior of PORTS_MODULES recently, so you could look more carefully at those changes. (r237090 and r237958, both have been merged back to 7/8/9.) -Ben Kaduk From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 20:29:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06D15106566B for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 20:29:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8E9A15808B; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 20:29:44 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF204B8.7020804@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 13:29:44 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120621 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: George Mitchell References: <4FF18216.3070207@m5p.com> In-Reply-To: <4FF18216.3070207@m5p.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Browsing over IPv6 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 20:29:47 -0000 On 07/02/2012 04:12, George Mitchell wrote: > I've been using IPv6 for quite a few years without problems and I've > had no difficulty browsing Many more sites are actually putting, or have put, IPv6 into production since the latest world IPv6 day last month. Some growing pains are inevitable. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 20:33:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD9EB1065678 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 20:33:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1BD215F346; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 20:32:44 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF2056C.5080500@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 13:32:44 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120621 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benjamin Kaduk References: <20120702161601.GF1754@albert.catwhisker.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, David Wolfskill Subject: Re: PORTS_MODULES in src.conf: make: don't know how to make instclean. Stop X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 20:33:45 -0000 On 07/02/2012 09:25, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > On Mon, 2 Jul 2012, David Wolfskill wrote: > >> Huh??!? >> >> At least as far back as 06 Jan (based on the mtime of /etc/src.conf), I >> had set up src.conf to read: >> >> PORTS_MODULES=x11/nvidia-driver > > "Don't do that." > PORTS_MODULES is documented to belong in make.conf, not src.conf. It works fine in src.conf. Please point to the documentation you speak of so that it can be fixed. > That said, dougb has tweaked the behavior of PORTS_MODULES recently Yes, this is my mistake, I'll fix it. -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 20:41:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40EC9106566B; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 20:41:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaduk@mit.edu) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu (DMZ-MAILSEC-SCANNER-8.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.37]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFA208FC17; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 20:41:24 +0000 (UTC) X-AuditID: 12074425-b7f9b6d0000008c4-e1-4ff207735bf8 Received: from mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu ( [18.7.62.36]) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id B7.66.02244.37702FF4; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 16:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.103]) by mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id q62KfMBL027933; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 16:41:22 -0400 Received: from multics.mit.edu (MULTICS.MIT.EDU [18.187.1.73]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id q62KfL5C023272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 2 Jul 2012 16:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kaduk@localhost) by multics.mit.edu (8.12.9.20060308) id q62KfKKY020486; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 16:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 16:41:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Doug Barton In-Reply-To: <4FF2056C.5080500@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: References: <20120702161601.GF1754@albert.catwhisker.org> <4FF2056C.5080500@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (GSO 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrHIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixG6nolvM/snfoO22jcWpL3dZLF5f+sZq sWFBoQOzx8In/cweMz7NZwlgiuKySUnNySxLLdK3S+DKOHnnK3vBC86K3S272RsYb7N3MXJy SAiYSCz8eYUNwhaTuHBvPZDNxSEksI9R4nvDVEYIZz2jxM6jc8E6hAT2M0n8em8NYddLdHw7 wwJiswhoSXQcXsAMYrMJqEjMfLMRaBIHh4iAssSVh24gJrOAvcTBexIgFcICYRKXtrcxgdic AtoS384uApvCK+Ao8ejsNCaI6X2MEk8fgU0UFdCRWL1/ClSNoMTJmU/AbGYBS4lzf66zTWAU nIUkNQtJagEj0ypG2ZTcKt3cxMyc4tRk3eLkxLy81CJdC73czBK91JTSTYzgYHVR3cE44ZDS IUYBDkYlHl7F2x/8hVgTy4orcw8xSnIwKYny6v3/6C/El5SfUpmRWJwRX1Sak1p8iFGCg1lJ hDfuCFCONyWxsiq1KB8mJc3BoiTOeyPlpr+QQHpiSWp2ampBahFMVoaDQ0mCt5Ltk7+QYFFq empFWmZOCUKaiYMTZDgP0HApkBre4oLE3OLMdIj8KUZFKXHeFJCEAEgiozQPrheWTF4xigO9 Isw7FaSKB5iI4LpfAQ1mAhr8fPU7kMEliQgpqQZGFSnjcAmFzL337nfYq7xrczk1TaF1ehT/ lU2PM04ujrm5/x3Hvr31FlxSFwycDJsOczT0S5lULItTFReMOnXmh46bidh/VReT28AgbyrY cWjl3dg7FW6xvJ7HQxI/dRyxN1orq6LQfPNDZMMUu0nJjdOnK1088N7gxdJg4zQhz4OzJV7s EFRiKc5INNRiLipOBAAjCWWvAQMAAA== Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, David Wolfskill Subject: Re: PORTS_MODULES in src.conf: make: don't know how to make instclean. Stop X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 20:41:25 -0000 On Mon, 2 Jul 2012, Doug Barton wrote: > On 07/02/2012 09:25, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: >> On Mon, 2 Jul 2012, David Wolfskill wrote: >> >>> Huh??!? >>> >>> At least as far back as 06 Jan (based on the mtime of /etc/src.conf), I >>> had set up src.conf to read: >>> >>> PORTS_MODULES=x11/nvidia-driver >> >> "Don't do that." >> PORTS_MODULES is documented to belong in make.conf, not src.conf. > > It works fine in src.conf. Please point to the documentation you speak > of so that it can be fixed. PORTS_MODULES is listed in make.conf.5, and is not listed in src.conf.5. >From src.conf: The only purpose of src.conf is to control the compilation of the FreeBSD source code, which is usually located in /usr/src. This would seem to not include Ports code (which is usually located in /usr/ports). I'm pretty sure it's come up in the past that src.conf should only be used for those build options explicitly documented in it, and not other settings, and the implementation may be subject to change (so that other settings would no longer work) in the future. If you would like me to go search for those previous discussions, I can try, but my reading of these man pages is that it's pretty clear-cut. -Ben From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 22:26:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B21C106567B for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:26:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E27017AD5A; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:21:07 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF21ED3.6050304@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:21:07 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120621 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benjamin Kaduk References: <20120702161601.GF1754@albert.catwhisker.org> <4FF2056C.5080500@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FF2056C.5080500@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, David Wolfskill Subject: Re: PORTS_MODULES in src.conf: make: don't know how to make instclean. Stop X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 22:26:33 -0000 The problem is fixed now. This time I tested build and install with the same code. :( Sorry for the breakage, Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 22:30:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29126106564A; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:30:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (m209-73.dsl.rawbw.com [198.144.209.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB0418FC08; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:30:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q62MUAjm007006; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:30:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@albert.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q62MUAnO007005; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:30:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:30:09 -0700 From: David Wolfskill To: Doug Barton Message-ID: <20120702223009.GC1544@albert.catwhisker.org> References: <20120702161601.GF1754@albert.catwhisker.org> <4FF2056C.5080500@FreeBSD.org> <4FF21ED3.6050304@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NU0Ex4SbNnrxsi6C" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FF21ED3.6050304@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PORTS_MODULES in src.conf: make: don't know how to make instclean. Stop X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 22:30:11 -0000 --NU0Ex4SbNnrxsi6C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 03:21:07PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > The problem is fixed now. This time I tested build and install with the > same code. :( Ah; I see. Cool; thanks! :-) > Sorry for the breakage, > ... Eh; let's hope that's the worst thing that happens for the rest of the month, shall we? :-) (If it is, we will truly be blessed!) Peace, david --=20 David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org Depriving a girl or boy of an opportunity for education is evil. See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. --NU0Ex4SbNnrxsi6C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/yIPEACgkQmprOCmdXAD2A6QCfVmh2KlDf6oh5pwIhKcItm7VO SQEAn3HQBTaTppR02dmtAzKsUjGpZ0nr =mTzJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NU0Ex4SbNnrxsi6C-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 22:32:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90AB81065672 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:32:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kabaev@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44C448FC17 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:32:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so3714963qcs.13 for ; Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:32:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type; bh=LegKp5JGlTVeKHCbT6z5CDC45jIvEff5NFU64DotEDI=; b=lp+LYwhPZFV2YFojEIERffNlKqrpySGVPBJoDiI8iaZSREo7gvt3tEclbjVKLmoKmI 0CJiinLqMsX5aHDyLSRy9IQloIETBCFQ1BZdxJE1I+9AAvY3MajnJHKVytqdev5HBwlX TP2RpSXvI0n2LYvhdsXn5irh9kaR2/Xx/0fA31erffJcllsGYqLiC/INUAFw3kKwu9k1 FaE35wyKRvxgQXYmYh7h4oTw2Ij9WqRilQp/cdjrVvoSRybCOG0tOzKdQDIFZKD4aXSx fyvVrgRSfKGp3cZ2SK+AmQ14TK18HFKubdD/lIK0FjXFWxjdhiTOJqLJduJtAEQ++4/H hZPA== Received: by 10.229.134.203 with SMTP id k11mr7434417qct.146.1341268359735; Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kan.dyndns.org (c-24-63-226-98.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [24.63.226.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gy9sm34048068qab.22.2012.07.02.15.32.38 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 18:32:32 -0400 From: Alexander Kabaev To: Yuri Message-ID: <20120702183232.037dda59@kan.dyndns.org> In-Reply-To: <4FEE0D2F.4010808@rawbw.com> References: <4FEE0D2F.4010808@rawbw.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/LxNGpS6jFIS.aanY2qxGxc="; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: System is flooded with failed read(2) calls: Resource temporarily unavailable (errno=35) coming from xorg unix socket X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 22:32:40 -0000 --Sig_/LxNGpS6jFIS.aanY2qxGxc= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:16:47 -0700 Yuri wrote: > # Declare DTrace script > # > if ($COUNT) { # aggregate style > $dtrace =3D < /usr/sbin/dtrace -n ' > #pragma D option quiet > syscall:::return > /errno !=3D 0 && pid !=3D \$pid $FILTER/ > { > \@Errs[execname, probefunc, errno] =3D count(); > } > dtrace:::END { > printa("%s %s %d %\@d\\n", \@Errs); > }' > END Pardon my possibly naive question, but isn't using errno to detect whether the syscall is succesful a wrong techique? Syscall will NOT change errno unless unless it actually failed, so unless dtrace's errno emulation is more magic than I thought, your script will mistakenly attribute error code coming from a distant past to syscalls just complete with no errors? --=20 Alexander Kabaev --Sig_/LxNGpS6jFIS.aanY2qxGxc= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFP8iGFQ6z1jMm+XZYRArNDAJ9oo+vJ6KbVEWIlYrI7K0sx7KaQ2gCdHKUs 0KRbUNhVYkzCXZ2dE1xIaII= =VMIB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/LxNGpS6jFIS.aanY2qxGxc=-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 22:33:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C55B01065675 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:33:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03DD71779EA; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:31:45 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF22151.9040908@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:31:45 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120621 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benjamin Kaduk References: <20120702161601.GF1754@albert.catwhisker.org> <4FF2056C.5080500@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, David Wolfskill Subject: Re: PORTS_MODULES in src.conf: make: don't know how to make instclean. Stop X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 22:33:46 -0000 On 07/02/2012 13:41, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > On Mon, 2 Jul 2012, Doug Barton wrote: > >> On 07/02/2012 09:25, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: >>> On Mon, 2 Jul 2012, David Wolfskill wrote: >>> >>>> Huh??!? >>>> >>>> At least as far back as 06 Jan (based on the mtime of /etc/src.conf), I >>>> had set up src.conf to read: >>>> >>>> PORTS_MODULES=x11/nvidia-driver >>> >>> "Don't do that." >>> PORTS_MODULES is documented to belong in make.conf, not src.conf. >> >> It works fine in src.conf. Please point to the documentation you speak >> of so that it can be fixed. > > PORTS_MODULES is listed in make.conf.5, and is not listed in src.conf.5. I see. That's a side effect of the wacky way in which src.conf.5 is built, combined with the fact that no one has yet migrated the things in make.conf.5 that predated the creation of src.conf altogether. There are numerous other examples, including KERNCONF and MODULES_OVERRIDE that I have in my src.conf just off the top of my head. Fixing this would be a great task for a doc person who wanted to get more exposure to src stuff. :) > From src.conf: > The only purpose of src.conf is to control the compilation of the > FreeBSD > source code, which is usually located in /usr/src. > This would seem to not include Ports code (which is usually located in > /usr/ports). I think the first "usually" is the one that is more relevant. However, that sentence is badly phrased to start with. It should probably say something like, "The /etc/src.conf file is used for make options that are exclusive to the build process for the base OS." Since PORTS_MODULES falls into that category (even though the code lives in ports, it's part of the base build process), it qualifies. Also, and much more importantly, putting it in src.conf actually works, which you probably should have checked first before commenting. :) > I'm pretty sure it's come up in the past that src.conf should only be > used for those build options explicitly documented in it, and not other > settings Unfortunately, there has been confusion on this point in the past, I agree. However it's important to note that "the documentation" is not necessarily the final appeal to authority, since "we" wrote the documentation, and "we" get it wrong sometimes. :) Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 2 23:14:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4952C1065678; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 23:14:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell0.rawbw.com (shell0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A3838FC0C; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 23:14:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from eagle.yuri.org (stunnel@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by shell0.rawbw.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q62NEJ67065442; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 16:14:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Message-ID: <4FF22B46.4000301@rawbw.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 16:14:14 -0700 From: Yuri User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120702 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Chadd References: <4FEE0D2F.4010808@rawbw.com> <4FF0AEE1.5040607@rawbw.com> <4FF0C352.6010805@rawbw.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System is flooded with failed read(2) calls: Resource temporarily unavailable (errno=35) coming from xorg unix socket X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 23:14:30 -0000 > Ok, so something is really really odd here. Are you able to dig deeper > into what the socket code in xorg is doing wrong? It'd certainly be > nice to fix all of this stuff up. > > Thanks so much for digging into this! It's been annoying me, but I've > just been ridiculously busy trying to bring up some more Atheors wifi > chipset support in FreeBSD. Now it is clear what is happening. Xlib routinely calls read one more time during every X-protocol call one extra time, kinda just in case. And such calls always fail with EAGAIN, unless disconnect or socket error happens to happen at this time. This essentially about doubles the number of system calls that any X app makes. Yuri From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 02:08:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDD7E106566C; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 02:08:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rsimmons0@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D91B8FC0A; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 02:08:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcbfy7 with SMTP id fy7so4791393vcb.13 for ; Mon, 02 Jul 2012 19:08:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=N85mXg7Dolrj09rXycLImLqcAZGEnVfakB/aJywAo4Y=; b=VBgp1wctU4oeIRFxqIV8/EjuPekbwShP39LprotfiUpnliCvqfIA9TKOw84UKjDlmN QVkNWgpQuiNPjIJQzF2D84HHYtJpzus4un8xgPIg+OjHzhbuwib3mX5791B2sCIJcQbw nXwcKiQsO0227UxUW47kqUm8OxsxQ3yTwubiL39YDkF5xF59y0I+w5tJU5Lbi3YXHmU5 ebHFCuIl2TwkBsqvlcG/1PILbxGBoJBc93b74UCj3reutpZZ2By22EPZ6xI/RVGg+nuY M4BaBHl3Q3QAPZP/zITjuAciSbf3vZ0sT8BaUmFT8z0Nx1NJ9we3FEERH5NNxKBk5NC4 oCSw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.100.36 with SMTP id ev4mr5805792vdb.43.1341281320670; Mon, 02 Jul 2012 19:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.180.168 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 19:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:08:40 -0400 Message-ID: From: Robert Simmons To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Subject: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 02:08:41 -0000 Are there plans to pull the following into head before the code freeze for 9.1? BIND 9.9.1p1 OpenSSH 6.0p1 IPFilter 5.1.1 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 03:23:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9E2F1065670 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 03:23:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell0.rawbw.com (shell0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B04888FC08 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 03:23:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from eagle.yuri.org (stunnel@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by shell0.rawbw.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q633NYHp002772; Mon, 2 Jul 2012 20:23:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Message-ID: <4FF265B3.8050301@rawbw.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 20:23:31 -0700 From: Yuri User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120702 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexander Kabaev References: <4FEE0D2F.4010808@rawbw.com> <20120702183232.037dda59@kan.dyndns.org> In-Reply-To: <20120702183232.037dda59@kan.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: System is flooded with failed read(2) calls: Resource temporarily unavailable (errno=35) coming from xorg unix socket X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 03:23:40 -0000 On 07/02/2012 15:32, Alexander Kabaev wrote: > Pardon my possibly naive question, but isn't using errno to detect > whether the syscall is succesful a wrong techique? Syscall will NOT > change errno unless unless it actually failed, so unless dtrace's errno > emulation is more magic than I thought, your script will mistakenly > attribute error code coming from a distant past to syscalls just > complete with no errors? I didn't think about this at all, just picked this script from some website. But now I did an experiment: in the test process I placed on failing open(2) call and next to it a succeeding one. And this dtrace script only shows one failed open(2) call, not two as you would expect if errno was indeed preserved between them. So maybe there is some magic to it in dtrace functionality. Someone more familiar with the matter maybe can explain this. Yuri From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 06:01:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0A111065673; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 06:01:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20048FC1C; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 06:01:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q6361Ji2002320; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 08:01:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q6361JFu002317; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 08:01:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 08:01:18 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Doug Barton In-Reply-To: <4FF204B8.7020804@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: References: <4FF18216.3070207@m5p.com> <4FF204B8.7020804@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 03 Jul 2012 08:01:19 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, George Mitchell Subject: Re: Browsing over IPv6 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 06:01:27 -0000 > > Many more sites are actually putting, or have put, IPv6 into production > since the latest world IPv6 day last month. Some growing pains are > inevitable. i've actually had IPv6 working 5 years ago, but only as tunneled and still no operators here provide IPv6. Nothing special. As they needed 10-20 years to learn how to make IPv4 work ;) they will need at least 20 years to learn IPv6. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 10:32:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 063F51065670; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 10:32:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA8DB8FC0A; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 10:32:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89DD765F2; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 10:32:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0CF928367; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 12:32:19 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Robert Simmons References: Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 12:32:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Robert Simmons's message of "Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:08:40 -0400") Message-ID: <86fw99p233.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 10:32:28 -0000 Robert Simmons writes: > OpenSSH 6.0p1 No. It doesn't build cleanly on FreeBSD (I reported two issues during the pre-release cycle, one was fixed but the other was not), and even if it did, it's too big a change to push through on such short notice. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 11:18:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15E77106564A for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 11:18:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vps.rulingia.com (host-122-100-2-194.octopus.com.au [122.100.2.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8FF98FC18 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 11:18:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server.rulingia.com (c220-239-248-69.belrs5.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.248.69]) by vps.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q63BHxbt021957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:17:59 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q63BHrc8079486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:17:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q63BHrZ6079485 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:17:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:17:53 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120703111753.GB72292@server.rulingia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jI8keyz6grp/JLjh" Content-Disposition: inline X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: contigmalloc() breaking Xorg X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 11:18:08 -0000 --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a reasonably recent 8-stable/amd64 system (r237444) with a "ATI Radeon HD 2400 Pro", xorg-server-1.10.6,1 and xf86-video-ati-6.14.3_1 8GB RAM and ZFS. I'm seeing fairly consistent problems with Xorg spinning in swwrt for long periods (I've seen =BDhr) and then failing. The resultant Xorg.0.log shows (eg): [854259.962] (EE) RADEON(0): [pci] Out of memory (-12) That message comes from xf86-video-ati-6.14.3/src/radeon_dri.c:RADEONDRIPciInit() and the -12 indicates ENOMEM. That code (indirectly) issues DRM_IOCTL_SG_ALLOC and winds up in sys/dev/drm/drm_scatter.c:drm_sg_alloc(), which uses bus_dma_tag_create(), bus_dmamem_alloc() and bus_dmamap_load() to actually allocate memory below 4GB. Setting hw.dri.0.debug shows that it's trying to allocate 32MB: Jul 3 18:57:49 server kernel: [drm:pid72128:drm_ioctl] pid=3D72128, cmd=3D= 0xc0106438, nr=3D0x38, dev 0xffffff000246ee00, auth=3D1 Jul 3 18:57:49 server kernel: [drm:pid72128:drm_sg_alloc_ioctl]=20 Jul 3 18:57:49 server kernel: [drm:pid72128:drm_sg_alloc] sg size=3D335544= 32 pages=3D8192 Jul 3 19:28:09 server kernel: [drm:pid72128:drm_ioctl] returning 12 [note the timestamps] Whilst drm_sg_alloc() allows non-contiguous allocation (the code just wants 8192 pages), bus_dma(9) states: "The current implementation of bus_dmamem_alloc() will allocate all requests as a single segment." (and this is the same in 10-current). bus_dmamem_alloc() for a region greater than one page uses contigmalloc(). I believe that Xorg spinning in swwrt is a regression but I don't have a good idea for when it started (and http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2011-February/061369.html suggests that it's been occurring for quite a while). For that matter contigmalloc() also seems to have a long history of causing problems with other parts of FreeBSD - I first crossed swords with it 7=BD years ago (when it was causing panics in umass(4)). Previously, the work-around for contigmalloc() issues was to ensure that the appropriate contigmalloc() calls occurred shortly after a reboot - before RAM got too fragmented. That doesn't appear to work here because it looks like Xorg releases and (tries to) re-allocates the memory during a reset (ie on logout). It is a _serious_ nuisance having to reboot because I fumbled my password... Can anyone suggest a way forward? Note that additional RAM isn't an option for this box. How difficult would it be to modify bus_dmamem_alloc() [at least on x86] to handle multi-segment allocations? Does anyone have a tool that can display physical RAM allocation? This would at least allow me to identify offending allocations. http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2011-February/thread.html asks the same question but just peters out. --=20 Peter Jeremy --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEUEARECAAYFAk/y1OEACgkQ/opHv/APuIc7IwCVFQXPX6b1dStc/nTA4koh8fnm AACgwBAFfQdZF0j5omNH8w5Jgq1tZPU= =Oo8S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 11:36:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9512F106566B for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 11:36:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vps.rulingia.com (host-122-100-2-194.octopus.com.au [122.100.2.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26C2C8FC19 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 11:36:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server.rulingia.com (c220-239-248-69.belrs5.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.248.69]) by vps.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q63Baesm022012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:36:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q63BaZP9080775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:36:35 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q63BaZ3Z080774 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:36:35 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:36:35 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120703113634.GC72292@server.rulingia.com> References: <20120703111753.GB72292@server.rulingia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZoaI/ZTpAVc4A5k6" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120703111753.GB72292@server.rulingia.com> X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: contigmalloc() breaking Xorg X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 11:36:42 -0000 --ZoaI/ZTpAVc4A5k6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2012-Jul-03 21:17:53 +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: >Does anyone have a tool that can display physical RAM allocation? >This would at least allow me to identify offending allocations. >http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2011-February/thread.ht= ml >asks the same question but just peters out. That link should be http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2011-February/034321.html sorry about the mis-paste. --=20 Peter Jeremy --ZoaI/ZTpAVc4A5k6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/y2UIACgkQ/opHv/APuIcLgACgrFU9nql3MEkkeTlM+kC1qlzL RoQAni89fyEYf/nlXfSndgclhJEvankJ =gVKo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZoaI/ZTpAVc4A5k6-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 11:27:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDEF7106566B for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 11:27:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from islamyasar@yandex.com) Received: from forward18.mail.yandex.net (forward18.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1402::3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4900F8FC16 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 11:27:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from web14g.yandex.ru (web14g.yandex.ru [95.108.252.114]) by forward18.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id B46691781DB7 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 15:27:13 +0400 (MSK) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.com; s=mail; t=1341314833; bh=DacgKcn2sb1wOA9jm3x/9YmuHxDcZ3l6qd4YvNa2Rxo=; h=From:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Message-Id:Date: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type; b=MUXdW1jB5bdwVSZh8LocvpG4iapsI8k2N59kE8FcT49RLgTvPC55fxVEaow5775kr ZhX9ynm+J3JcVlnLg15Aciy7hc2kZFsZ98RNYaWvxboVXlv9nHxzu4j0eInGh92dz9 limhSl/Yf5GmGbtStU5m6YARQLY+h1YlJuezkBVU= Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by web14g.yandex.ru (Yandex) with ESMTP id 827DF10904CF; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 15:27:13 +0400 (MSK) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.com; s=mail; t=1341314833; bh=DacgKcn2sb1wOA9jm3x/9YmuHxDcZ3l6qd4YvNa2Rxo=; h=From:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Message-Id:Date: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type; b=MUXdW1jB5bdwVSZh8LocvpG4iapsI8k2N59kE8FcT49RLgTvPC55fxVEaow5775kr ZhX9ynm+J3JcVlnLg15Aciy7hc2kZFsZ98RNYaWvxboVXlv9nHxzu4j0eInGh92dz9 limhSl/Yf5GmGbtStU5m6YARQLY+h1YlJuezkBVU= Received: from asy62.asy144.tellcom.com.tr (asy62.asy144.tellcom.com.tr [195.214.144.62]) by web14g.yandex.ru with HTTP; Tue, 03 Jul 2012 15:27:13 +0400 From: =?utf-8?B?WWHFn2FyIMSwc2xhbQ==?= To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <695811341314833@web14g.yandex.ru> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 14:27:13 +0300 X-Mailer: Yamail [ http://yandex.ru ] 5.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 11:38:52 +0000 Subject: file version and libmagic X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 11:27:15 -0000 Hi Why do FreeBSD-9 use still file-5.3 ? whereas file-5.09 was ready to use with updated magic databases (was ready FreeBSD9 release date). Do you know why FreeBSD insist to use old magic databases ? thanks.. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 12:05:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAF41106564A; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 12:05:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8548F14FA6C; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 12:05:34 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 05:05:34 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120621 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Simmons References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 12:05:35 -0000 On 07/02/2012 19:08, Robert Simmons wrote: > Are there plans to pull the following into head before the code freeze for 9.1? > > BIND 9.9.1p1 We never change the version of BIND in a release branch. The 9.8 version that's there is up to date. The correct solution to this problem is to remove BIND from the base altogether, but I have no energy for all the whinging that would happen if I tried (again) to do that. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 12:39:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BB45106566B; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 12:39:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D3E28FC1B; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 12:39:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id F26956644; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 12:39:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id AC7DE8387; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 14:39:34 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Doug Barton References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 14:39:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> (Doug Barton's message of "Tue, 03 Jul 2012 05:05:34 -0700") Message-ID: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Robert Simmons , freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 12:39:36 -0000 Doug Barton writes: > The correct solution to this problem is to remove BIND from the base > altogether, but I have no energy for all the whinging that would happen > if I tried (again) to do that. I don't think there will be as much whinging as you expect. Times have changed. I'm willing to import and maintain unbound (BSD-licensed validating, recursive, and caching DNS resolver) if you remove BIND. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 13:36:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223D01065670 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 13:36:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E01428FC18 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 13:36:56 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=ev292ud0TUAVvCxrrTnzPPuCp7WTS/stb6ECMbXsVfI=; b=JUq3OBAyx20L2eDavaSoVBQMW/n2bAvL7pvY1aDzk1muhUDndu2hPUGT2B72DuxMGA9IcPzppkqZjKrd8sOxa5tmUAFBFVunc6oYXY55pqOXcid7JX3g6FDR7vsiQfVT; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Sm3Hj-00066z-Ag for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2012 08:36:56 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1341322609-94480-94479/5/82; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 13:36:49 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 08:36:45 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 13:36:57 -0000 On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 07:39:34 -0500, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav = wrote: > > I don't think there will be as much whinging as you expect. Times have > changed. Agreed; if we need DNS in base (really, why?) then unbound+nsd are prime = =20 candidates, but they're healthily maintained in ports...soo... no real =20 advantage. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 16:12:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13DD6106566C; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 16:12:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from melifaro@FreeBSD.org) Received: from dhcp170-36-red.yandex.net (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333D114DE4F; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 16:12:21 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF319A2.6070905@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 20:11:14 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Chernikov" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120511 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: net@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, performance@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: FreeBSD 10G forwarding performance @Intel X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 16:12:24 -0000 Hello list! I'm quite stuck with bad forwarding performance on many FreeBSD boxes doing firewalling. Typical configuration is E5645 / E5675 @ Intel 82599 NIC. HT is turned off. (Configs and tunables below). I'm mostly concerned with unidirectional traffic flowing to single interface (e.g. using singe route entry). In most cases system can forward no more than 700 (or 1400) kpps which is quite a bad number (Linux does, say, 5MPPs on nearly the same hardware). Test scenario: Ixia XM2 (traffic generator) <> ix0 (FreeBSD). Ixia sends 64byte IP packets from vlan10 (10.100.0.64 - 10.100.0.156) to destinations in vlan11 (10.100.1.128 - 10.100.1.192). Static arps are configured for all destination addresses. Traffic level is slightly above or slightly below system performance. ================= Test 1 ======================= Kernel: FreeBSD-8-S r237994, stock drivers, stock routing, no FLOWTABLE, no firewall Traffic: 1-1 flow (1 src, 1 dst) (This is actually a bit different from described above) Result: input (ix0) output packets errs idrops bytes packets errs bytes colls 878k 48k 0 59M 878k 0 56M 0 874k 48k 0 59M 874k 0 56M 0 875k 48k 0 59M 875k 0 56M 0 16:41 [0] test15# top -nCHSIzs1 | awk '$5 ~ /(K|SIZE)/ { printf " %7s %2s %6s %10s %15s %s\n", $7, $8, $9, $10, $11, $12}' STATE C TIME CPU COMMAND CPU6 6 17:28 100.00% kernel{ix0 que} CPU9 9 20:42 60.06% intr{irq265: ix0:que 16:41 [0] test15# vmstat -i | grep ix0 irq256: ix0:que 0 500796 167 irq257: ix0:que 1 6693573 2245 irq258: ix0:que 2 2572380 862 irq259: ix0:que 3 3166273 1062 irq260: ix0:que 4 9691706 3251 irq261: ix0:que 5 10766434 3611 irq262: ix0:que 6 8933774 2996 irq263: ix0:que 7 5246879 1760 irq264: ix0:que 8 3548930 1190 irq265: ix0:que 9 11817986 3964 irq266: ix0:que 10 227561 76 irq267: ix0:link 1 0 Note that system is using 2 cores to forward, so 12 cores should be able to forward 4+ mpps which is more or less consistent with Linux results. Note that interrupts on all queues are (as far as I understand from the fact that AIM is turned off and interrupt rates are the same from previous test). Additionally, despite hw.intr_storm_threshold = 200k, i'm constantly getting interrupt storm detected on "irq265:"; throttling interrupt source message. ================= Test 2 ======================= Kernel: FreeBSD-8-S r237994, stock drivers, stock routing, no FLOWTABLE, no firewall Traffic: Unidirectional many-2-many 16:20 [0] test15# netstat -I ix0 -hw 1 input (ix0) output packets errs idrops bytes packets errs bytes colls 507k 651k 0 74M 508k 0 32M 0 506k 652k 0 74M 507k 0 28M 0 509k 652k 0 74M 508k 0 37M 0 16:28 [0] test15# top -nCHSIzs1 | awk '$5 ~ /(K|SIZE)/ { printf " %7s %2s %6s %10s %15s %s\n", $7, $8, $9, $10, $11, $12}' STATE C TIME CPU COMMAND CPU10 6 0:40 100.00% kernel{ix0 que} CPU2 2 11:47 84.86% intr{irq258: ix0:que CPU3 3 11:50 81.88% intr{irq259: ix0:que CPU8 8 11:38 77.69% intr{irq264: ix0:que CPU7 7 11:24 77.10% intr{irq263: ix0:que WAIT 1 10:10 74.76% intr{irq257: ix0:que CPU4 4 8:57 63.48% intr{irq260: ix0:que CPU6 6 8:35 61.96% intr{irq262: ix0:que CPU9 9 14:01 60.79% intr{irq265: ix0:que RUN 0 9:07 59.67% intr{irq256: ix0:que WAIT 5 6:13 43.26% intr{irq261: ix0:que CPU11 11 5:19 35.89% kernel{ix0 que} - 4 3:41 25.49% kernel{ix0 que} - 1 3:22 21.78% kernel{ix0 que} - 1 2:55 17.68% kernel{ix0 que} - 4 2:24 16.55% kernel{ix0 que} - 1 9:54 14.99% kernel{ix0 que} CPU0 11 2:13 14.26% kernel{ix0 que} 16:07 [0] test15# vmstat -i | grep ix0 irq256: ix0:que 0 13654 15 irq257: ix0:que 1 87043 96 irq258: ix0:que 2 39604 44 irq259: ix0:que 3 48308 53 irq260: ix0:que 4 138002 153 irq261: ix0:que 5 169596 188 irq262: ix0:que 6 107679 119 irq263: ix0:que 7 72769 81 irq264: ix0:que 8 30878 34 irq265: ix0:que 9 1002032 1115 irq266: ix0:que 10 10967 12 irq267: ix0:link 1 0 Note that all cores are loaded more or less evenly, but the result is _worse_. The first reason for this is mtx_lock which is acquired twice on every lookup (once in in in_matroute() where it can possibly be removed and once again in rtalloc1_fib()). Latter one is addressed by andre@ in r234650). Additionally, despite itreads are bound to singe CPU each, kernel que are not in stock setup. However, configuration with 5 queues and 5 kernel threads bound to different CPU provides the same bad results. ================= Test 3 ======================= Kernel: FreeBSD-8-S June 4 SVN, +merged ifaddrlock, stock drivers, stock routing, no FLOWTABLE, no firewall packets errs idrops bytes packets errs bytes colls 580k 18k 0 38M 579k 0 37M 0 581k 26k 0 39M 580k 0 37M 0 580k 24k 0 39M 580k 0 37M 0 ................ Enabling ipfw _increases_ performance a bit: 604k 0 0 39M 604k 0 39M 0 604k 0 0 39M 604k 0 39M 0 582k 19k 0 38M 568k 0 37M 0 527k 81k 0 39M 530k 0 34M 0 605k 28 0 39M 605k 0 39M 0 ================= Test 3.1 ======================= Same as test 3, the only difference is the following: route add -net 10.100.1.160/27 -iface vlan11. input (ix0) output packets errs idrops bytes packets errs bytes colls 543k 879k 0 91M 544k 0 35M 0 547k 870k 0 91M 545k 0 35M 0 541k 870k 0 91M 539k 0 30M 0 952k 565k 0 97M 962k 0 48M 0 1.2M 228k 0 91M 1.2M 0 92M 0 1.2M 226k 0 90M 1.1M 0 76M 0 1.1M 228k 0 91M 1.2M 0 76M 0 1.2M 233k 0 90M 1.2M 0 76M 0 ================= Test 3.2 ======================= Same as test 3, splitting destination into 4 smaller rtes: route add -net 10.100.1.128/28 -iface vlan11 route add -net 10.100.1.144/28 -iface vlan11 route add -net 10.100.1.160/28 -iface vlan11 route add -net 10.100.1.176/28 -iface vlan11 input (ix0) output packets errs idrops bytes packets errs bytes colls 1.4M 0 0 106M 1.6M 0 106M 0 1.8M 0 0 106M 1.6M 0 71M 0 1.6M 0 0 106M 1.6M 0 71M 0 1.6M 0 0 87M 1.6M 0 71M 0 1.6M 0 0 126M 1.6M 0 212M 0 ================= Test 3.3 ======================= Same as test 3, splitting destination into 16 smaller rtes: input (ix0) output packets errs idrops bytes packets errs bytes colls 1.6M 0 0 118M 1.8M 0 118M 0 2.0M 0 0 118M 1.8M 0 119M 0 1.8M 0 0 119M 1.8M 0 79M 0 1.8M 0 0 117M 1.8M 0 157M 0 ================= Test 4 ======================= Kernel: FreeBSD-8-S June 4 SVN, stock drivers, routing patch 1, no FLOWTABLE, no firewall input (ix0) output packets errs idrops bytes packets errs bytes colls 1.8M 0 0 114M 1.9M 0 114M 0 1.7M 0 0 114M 1.7M 0 114M 0 1.8M 0 0 114M 1.8M 0 114M 0 1.7M 0 0 114M 1.7M 0 114M 0 1.8M 0 0 114M 1.8M 0 74M 0 1.5M 0 0 114M 1.8M 0 74M 0 2M 0 0 114M 1.8M 0 194M 0 Patch 1 totally eliminates mtx_lock for fastforwarding path to get an idea how much performance we can achieve. The result is nearly the same as in 3.3 ================= Test 4.1 ======================= Same as the test 4, same traffic level, enabling firewall with single allow rule (evaluating RLOCK performance) 22:35 [0] test15# netstat -I ix0 -hw 1 input (ix0) output packets errs idrops bytes packets errs bytes colls 1.8M 149k 0 114M 1.6M 0 142M 0 1.4M 148k 0 85M 1.6M 0 104M 0 1.8M 149k 0 143M 1.6M 0 104M 0 1.6M 151k 0 114M 1.6M 0 104M 0 1.6M 151k 0 114M 1.6M 0 104M 0 1.4M 152k 0 114M 1.6M 0 104M 0 E.g something like 10% performance loss. ================= Test 4.2 ======================= Same as test4, playing with number of queues. 5queues, same traffic level 1.5M 225k 0 114M 1.5M 0 99M 0 ================= Test 4.3 ======================= Same as test 4, HT on, number of queues = 16 input (ix0) output packets errs idrops bytes packets errs bytes colls 2.4M 0 0 157M 2.4M 0 156M 0 2.4M 0 0 156M 2.4M 0 157M 0 However, enabling firewall immediately drops rate to 1.9mpps which is nearly the same as 4.1 (and complicated fw ruleset possibly kill HT core much faster) ================= Test 4.3 ======================= Same as test4, kerwnel ix0 que Tx threads bound to specific CPUs (corresponding to RX ): 18:02 [0] test15# procstat -ak | grep ix0 | sort -nk 2 12 100045 intr irq256: ix0:que 0 100046 kernel ix0 que 12 100047 intr irq257: ix0:que 0 100048 kernel ix0 que mi_switch sleepq_wait msleep_spin taskqueue_thread_loop fork_exit fork_trampoline 12 100049 intr irq258: ix0:que .. test15# for i in `jot 12 0`; do cpuset -l $i -t $((100046+2*$i)); done Result: input (ix0) output packets errs idrops bytes packets errs bytes colls 2.1M 0 0 139M 2M 0 193M 0 2.1M 0 0 139M 2.3M 0 139M 0 2.1M 0 0 139M 2.1M 0 85M 0 2.1M 0 0 139M 2.1M 0 193M 0 Quite considerable increase, however this works better for uniform traffic distribution only. ================= Test 5 ======================= Same as test 4, make radix use rmlock (r234648, r234649). Result: 1.7 MPPS. ================= Test 6 ======================= Same as test 4 + FLOWTABLE Result: 1.7 MPPS. ================= Test 7 ======================= Same as test 4, build with GCC 4.7 Result: No performance gain Further investigations: ================= Test 8 ======================= Test 4 setup with kernel build with LOCK_PROFILING. 17:46 [0] test15# sysctl debug.lock.prof.enable=1 ; sleep 2 ; sysctl debug.lock.prof.enable=0 920k 0 0 59M 920k 0 59M 0 875k 0 0 59M 920k 0 59M 0 628k 0 0 39M 566k 0 45M 0 79k 2.7M 0 186M 57k 0 6.5M 0 71k 878k 0 61M 73k 0 4.0M 0 891k 254k 0 72M 917k 0 54M 0 920k 0 0 59M 920k 0 59M 0 When enabled, forwarding performance goes down to 60kpps. Enabled for 2 seconds (so actually 130k packets forwarded), results attached as separate file. Several hundred lock contentions in ixgbe, that's all. ================= Test 9 ======================= Same as test 4 setup with hwpmc. Results attached. ================= Test 9 ======================= Kernel: Freebsd-9-S. No major difference Some (my) preliminary conclusions: 1) rte mtx_lock should (and can) be eliminated from stock kernel. (And it can be done more or less easily for in_matroute). 2) rmlock vs rwlock performance difference is insignificant (maybe because of 3) ) 3) there are locks contention between ixgbe taskq threads and ithreads. I'm not sure if taskq threads are necessary in the case of packet forwarding and not traffic generation. Maybe I'm missing something else? (l2 cache misses or other things). What else I can do to debug this further? Relevant files: http://static.ipfw.ru/files/fbsd10g/0001-no-rt-mutex.patch http://static.ipfw.ru/files/fbsd10g/kernel.gprof.txt http://static.ipfw.ru/files/fbsd10g/prof_stats.txt ============= CONFIGS ==================== sysctl.conf: kern.ipc.maxsockbuf=33554432 net.inet.udp.maxdgram=65535 net.inet.udp.recvspace=16777216 net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_auto=0 net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_auto=0 net.inet.tcp.sendspace=16777216 net.inet.tcp.recvspace=16777216 net.inet.ip.maxfragsperpacket=64 kern.random.sys.harvest.ethernet=0 kern.random.sys.harvest.point_to_point=0 kern.random.sys.harvest.interrupt=0 net.inet.ip.forwarding=1 net.inet.ip.fastforwarding=1 net.inet.ip.redirect=0 hw.intr_storm_threshold=20000 loader.conf: kern.ipc.nmbclusters="512000" ixgbe_load="YES" hw.ixgbe.rx_process_limit="300" hw.ixgbe.nojumbobuf="1" hw.ixgbe.max_loop="100" hw.ixgbe.max_interrupt_rate="20000" hw.ixgbe.num_queues="11" hw.ixgbe.txd=4096 hw.ixgbe.rxd=4096 kern.hwpmc.nbuffers=2048 debug.debugger_on_panic=1 net.inet.ip.fw.default_to_accept=1 kernel: cpu HAMMER ident CORE_RELENG_7 options COMPAT_IA32 makeoptions DEBUG=-g # Build kernel with gdb(1) debug symbols options SCHED_ULE # ULE scheduler options PREEMPTION # Enable kernel thread preemption options INET # InterNETworking options INET6 # IPv6 communications protocols options SCTP # Stream Control Transmission Protocol options FFS # Berkeley Fast Filesystem options SOFTUPDATES # Enable FFS soft updates support options UFS_ACL # Support for access control lists options UFS_DIRHASH # Improve performance on big directories options UFS_GJOURNAL # Enable gjournal-based UFS journaling options MD_ROOT # MD is a potential root device options PROCFS # Process filesystem (requires PSEUDOFS) options PSEUDOFS # Pseudo-filesystem framework options GEOM_PART_GPT # GUID Partition Tables. options GEOM_LABEL # Provides labelization options COMPAT_43TTY # BSD 4.3 TTY compat [KEEP THIS!] options COMPAT_FREEBSD4 # Compatible with FreeBSD4 options COMPAT_FREEBSD5 # Compatible with FreeBSD5 options COMPAT_FREEBSD6 # Compatible with FreeBSD6 options COMPAT_FREEBSD7 # Compatible with FreeBSD7 options COMPAT_FREEBSD32 options SCSI_DELAY=4000 # Delay (in ms) before probing SCSI options KTRACE # ktrace(1) support options STACK # stack(9) support options SYSVSHM # SYSV-style shared memory options SYSVMSG # SYSV-style message queues options SYSVSEM # SYSV-style semaphores options _KPOSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING # POSIX P1003_1B real-time extensions options KBD_INSTALL_CDEV # install a CDEV entry in /dev options AUDIT # Security event auditing options HWPMC_HOOKS options GEOM_MIRROR options MROUTING options PRINTF_BUFR_SIZE=100 # To make an SMP kernel, the next two lines are needed options SMP # Symmetric MultiProcessor Kernel # CPU frequency control device cpufreq # Bus support. device acpi device pci device ada device ahci # SCSI Controllers device ahd # AHA39320/29320 and onboard AIC79xx devices options AHD_REG_PRETTY_PRINT # Print register bitfields in debug # output. Adds ~215k to driver. device mpt # LSI-Logic MPT-Fusion # SCSI peripherals device scbus # SCSI bus (required for SCSI) device da # Direct Access (disks) device pass # Passthrough device (direct SCSI access) device ses # SCSI Environmental Services (and SAF-TE) # RAID controllers device mfi # LSI MegaRAID SAS # atkbdc0 controls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse device atkbdc # AT keyboard controller device atkbd # AT keyboard device psm # PS/2 mouse device kbdmux # keyboard multiplexer device vga # VGA video card driver device splash # Splash screen and screen saver support # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc device agp # support several AGP chipsets ## Power management support (see NOTES for more options) #device apm ## Add suspend/resume support for the i8254. #device pmtimer # Serial (COM) ports #device sio # 8250, 16[45]50 based serial ports device uart # Generic UART driver # If you've got a "dumb" serial or parallel PCI card that is # supported by the puc(4) glue driver, uncomment the following # line to enable it (connects to sio, uart and/or ppc drivers): #device puc # PCI Ethernet NICs. device em # Intel PRO/1000 adapter Gigabit Ethernet Card device bce #device ixgb # Intel PRO/10GbE Ethernet Card #device ixgbe # PCI Ethernet NICs that use the common MII bus controller code. # NOTE: Be sure to keep the 'device miibus' line in order to use these NICs! device miibus # MII bus support # Pseudo devices. device loop # Network loopback device random # Entropy device device ether # Ethernet support device pty # Pseudo-ttys (telnet etc) device md # Memory "disks" device firmware # firmware assist module device lagg # The `bpf' device enables the Berkeley Packet Filter. # Be aware of the administrative consequences of enabling this! # Note that 'bpf' is required for DHCP. device bpf # Berkeley packet filter # USB support device uhci # UHCI PCI->USB interface device ohci # OHCI PCI->USB interface device ehci # EHCI PCI->USB interface (USB 2.0) device usb # USB Bus (required) #device udbp # USB Double Bulk Pipe devices device uhid # "Human Interface Devices" device ukbd # Keyboard device umass # Disks/Mass storage - Requires scbus and da device ums # Mouse # USB Serial devices device ucom # Generic com ttys options INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE options KDB options KDB_UNATTENDED options DDB options ALT_BREAK_TO_DEBUGGER options IPFIREWALL #firewall options IPFIREWALL_FORWARD #packet destination changes options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #print information about # dropped packets options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE_LIMIT=10000 #limit verbosity # MRT support options ROUTETABLES=16 device vlan #VLAN support # Size of the kernel message buffer. Should be N * pagesize. options MSGBUF_SIZE=4096000 options SW_WATCHDOG options PANIC_REBOOT_WAIT_TIME=4 # # Hardware watchdog timers: # # ichwd: Intel ICH watchdog timer # #device ichwd device smbus device ichsmb device ipmi -- WBR, Alexander From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 16:35:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06444106564A; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 16:35:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from luigi@onelab2.iet.unipi.it) Received: from onelab2.iet.unipi.it (onelab2.iet.unipi.it [131.114.59.238]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85F88FC14; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 16:35:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by onelab2.iet.unipi.it (Postfix, from userid 275) id EB07573027; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 18:55:06 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 18:55:06 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo To: "Alexander V. Chernikov" Message-ID: <20120703165506.GA90114@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> References: <4FF319A2.6070905@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FF319A2.6070905@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, performance@freebsd.org, net@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 10G forwarding performance @Intel X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 16:35:49 -0000 On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 08:11:14PM +0400, Alexander V. Chernikov wrote: > Hello list! > > I'm quite stuck with bad forwarding performance on many FreeBSD boxes > doing firewalling. ... > In most cases system can forward no more than 700 (or 1400) kpps which > is quite a bad number (Linux does, say, 5MPPs on nearly the same hardware). among the many interesting tests you have run, i am curious if you have tried to remove the update of the counters on route entries. They might be another severe contention point. cheers luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 17:04:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FFCF106566B; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 17:04:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from remko@elvandar.org) Received: from mailout.jr-hosting.nl (mailout.jr-hosting.nl [78.47.69.236]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDF4F8FC0C; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 17:04:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.jr-hosting.nl (mail.jr-hosting.nl [IPv6:2a01:4f8:141:5ffd::25]) by mailout.jr-hosting.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B2103902633; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 19:04:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.0.2.10] (a44084.upc-a.chello.nl [62.163.44.84]) by mail.jr-hosting.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 032BA38B3330; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 19:04:33 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Remko Lodder In-Reply-To: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 19:04:31 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Doug Barton , Robert Simmons , freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 17:04:41 -0000 On Jul 3, 2012, at 2:39 PM, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > Doug Barton writes: >> The correct solution to this problem is to remove BIND from the base >> altogether, but I have no energy for all the whinging that would = happen >> if I tried (again) to do that. >=20 > I don't think there will be as much whinging as you expect. Times = have > changed. >=20 > I'm willing to import and maintain unbound (BSD-licensed validating, > recursive, and caching DNS resolver) if you remove BIND. >=20 > DES > --=20 > Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no >=20 +1 for unbound :-) --=20 /"\ With kind regards, | remko@elvandar.org \ / Remko Lodder | remko@FreeBSD.org X FreeBSD | = http://www.evilcoder.org / \ The Power to Serve | Quis custodiet ipsos custodes From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 17:38:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E168106572A; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 17:38:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from melifaro@FreeBSD.org) Received: from dhcp170-36-red.yandex.net (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD66314E588; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 17:38:46 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF32DE2.2010606@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 21:37:38 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Chernikov" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120511 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Luigi Rizzo References: <4FF319A2.6070905@FreeBSD.org> <20120703165506.GA90114@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> In-Reply-To: <20120703165506.GA90114@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, performance@freebsd.org, net@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 10G forwarding performance @Intel X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 17:38:49 -0000 On 03.07.2012 20:55, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 08:11:14PM +0400, Alexander V. Chernikov wrote: >> Hello list! >> >> I'm quite stuck with bad forwarding performance on many FreeBSD boxes >> doing firewalling. > ... >> In most cases system can forward no more than 700 (or 1400) kpps which >> is quite a bad number (Linux does, say, 5MPPs on nearly the same hardware). > > among the many interesting tests you have run, i am curious > if you have tried to remove the update of the counters on route > entries. They might be another severe contention point. 21:47 [0] m@test15 netstat -I ix0 -w 1 input (ix0) output packets errs idrops bytes packets errs bytes colls 1785514 52785 0 121318340 1784650 0 117874854 0 1773126 52437 0 120701470 1772977 0 117584736 0 1781948 52154 0 121060126 1778271 0 75029554 0 1786169 52982 0 121451160 1787312 0 160967392 0 21:47 [0] test15# sysctl net.rt_count=0 net.rt_count: 1 -> 0 1814465 22546 0 121302076 1814291 0 76860092 0 1817769 14272 0 120984922 1816254 0 163643534 0 1815311 13113 0 120831970 1815340 0 120159118 0 1814059 13698 0 120799132 1813738 0 120172092 0 1818030 13513 0 120960140 1814578 0 120332662 0 1814169 14351 0 120836182 1814003 0 120164310 0 Thanks, another good point. I forgot to merge this option from andre's patch. Another 30-40-50kpps to win. +u_int rt_count = 1; +SYSCTL_INT(_net, OID_AUTO, rt_count, CTLFLAG_RW, &rt_count, 1, ""); @@ -601,17 +625,20 @@ passout: if (error != 0) IPSTAT_INC(ips_odropped); else { - ro.ro_rt->rt_rmx.rmx_pksent++; + if (rt_count) + ro.ro_rt->rt_rmx.rmx_pksent++; IPSTAT_INC(ips_forward); IPSTAT_INC(ips_fastforward); > > cheers > luigi > -- WBR, Alexander From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 19:44:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E97106566C for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 19:44:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C89D8FC08 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 19:44:03 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=PNpNrK7foKSZZgIWqu1bqNPTM6GexJ3vD+wvqa8IHJY=; b=b6fVKKuI7ZiDSAy9K7fsr9FG6MVAz9yZ+xhmWMxQobpoODFKNyp0BkI8fXEnoYn4S1aqpRP0ZDKoMbELuE+5ZaZ2FLt3WmQUnHf0BwtKI3MbbnsSizwDN9Dra6P5+mrt; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Sm90z-000IEP-FW for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2012 14:44:02 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1341344635-94480-94479/5/83; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 19:43:55 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 14:43:53 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 19:44:03 -0000 On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 07:39:34 -0500, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav = wrote: > I'm willing to import and maintain unbound (BSD-licensed validating, > recursive, and caching DNS resolver) if you remove BIND. My only issue is that unbound is still a relatively young project =20 (released 2007) and rapidly evolving. Unless the FreeBSD releases really = =20 pick up the pace it might be worse to have an older version in base. = Just =20 read the changelogs for the last year and you'll see what I mean. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 20:08:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA80106564A; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 20:08:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from luigi@onelab2.iet.unipi.it) Received: from onelab2.iet.unipi.it (onelab2.iet.unipi.it [131.114.59.238]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7995F8FC0A; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 20:08:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by onelab2.iet.unipi.it (Postfix, from userid 275) id E232273029; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 22:27:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 22:27:57 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo To: "Alexander V. Chernikov" Message-ID: <20120703202757.GA90741@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> References: <4FF319A2.6070905@FreeBSD.org> <20120703165506.GA90114@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> <4FF32DE2.2010606@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FF32DE2.2010606@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, performance@freebsd.org, net@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 10G forwarding performance @Intel X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 20:08:33 -0000 On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 09:37:38PM +0400, Alexander V. Chernikov wrote: ... > Thanks, another good point. I forgot to merge this option from andre's > patch. > > Another 30-40-50kpps to win. not much gain though. What about the other IPSTAT_INC counters ? I think the IPSTAT_INC macros were introduced (by rwatson ?) following a discussion on how to make the counters per-cpu and avoid the contention on cache lines. But they are still implemented as a single instance, and neither volatile nor atomic, so it is not even clear that they can give reliable results, let alone the fact that you are likely to get some cache misses. the relevant macro is in ip_var.h. Cheers luigi > > +u_int rt_count = 1; > +SYSCTL_INT(_net, OID_AUTO, rt_count, CTLFLAG_RW, &rt_count, 1, ""); > > @@ -601,17 +625,20 @@ passout: > if (error != 0) > IPSTAT_INC(ips_odropped); > else { > - ro.ro_rt->rt_rmx.rmx_pksent++; > + if (rt_count) > + ro.ro_rt->rt_rmx.rmx_pksent++; > IPSTAT_INC(ips_forward); > IPSTAT_INC(ips_fastforward); > > > > > >cheers > >luigi > > > > > -- > WBR, Alexander > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-net@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-net > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-net-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 20:33:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0D10106567E; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 20:33:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from melifaro@FreeBSD.org) Received: from dhcp170-36-red.yandex.net (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25AC9158FDC; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 20:33:04 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF356BC.2060306@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 00:31:56 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Chernikov" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120511 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Luigi Rizzo References: <4FF319A2.6070905@FreeBSD.org> <20120703165506.GA90114@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> <4FF32DE2.2010606@FreeBSD.org> <20120703202757.GA90741@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> In-Reply-To: <20120703202757.GA90741@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, performance@freebsd.org, net@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 10G forwarding performance @Intel X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 20:33:21 -0000 On 04.07.2012 00:27, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 09:37:38PM +0400, Alexander V. Chernikov wrote: > ... >> Thanks, another good point. I forgot to merge this option from andre's >> patch. >> >> Another 30-40-50kpps to win. > > not much gain though. > What about the other IPSTAT_INC counters ? Well, we should then remove all such counters (total, forwarded) and per-interface statistics (at least for forwarded packets). > I think the IPSTAT_INC macros were introduced (by rwatson ?) > following a discussion on how to make the counters per-cpu > and avoid the contention on cache lines. > But they are still implemented as a single instance, > and neither volatile nor atomic, so it is not even clear > that they can give reliable results, let alone the fact > that you are likely to get some cache misses. > > the relevant macro is in ip_var.h. Hm. This seems to be just per-vnet structure instance. We've got some more real DPCPU stuff (sys/pcpu.h && kern/subr_pcpu.c) which can be used for global ipstat structure, however since it is allocated from single area without possibility to free we can't use it for per-interface counters. I'll try to run tests without any possibly contested counters and report the results on Thursday. > > Cheers > luigi > >> >> +u_int rt_count = 1; >> +SYSCTL_INT(_net, OID_AUTO, rt_count, CTLFLAG_RW,&rt_count, 1, ""); >> >> @@ -601,17 +625,20 @@ passout: >> if (error != 0) >> IPSTAT_INC(ips_odropped); >> else { >> - ro.ro_rt->rt_rmx.rmx_pksent++; >> + if (rt_count) >> + ro.ro_rt->rt_rmx.rmx_pksent++; >> IPSTAT_INC(ips_forward); >> IPSTAT_INC(ips_fastforward); >> >> >>> >>> cheers >>> luigi >>> >> >> >> -- >> WBR, Alexander >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-net@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-net >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-net-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-net@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-net > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-net-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- WBR, Alexander From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 20:39:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EEBF106566C; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 20:39:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B3D14E213; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 20:39:00 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 13:39:00 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120621 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> In-Reply-To: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 20:39:01 -0000 On 07/03/2012 05:39, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Doug Barton writes: >> The correct solution to this problem is to remove BIND from the base >> altogether, but I have no energy for all the whinging that would happen >> if I tried (again) to do that. > > I don't think there will be as much whinging as you expect. Times have > changed. > > I'm willing to import and maintain unbound (BSD-licensed validating, > recursive, and caching DNS resolver) if you remove BIND. You've got a deal! Unbound requires ldns, which is a good thing. Part of this project would also be to enable drill so that we have a command-line dns lookup tool in the base, but that's trivial once you've got ldns imported. After you get those 3 elements in the base I'm happy to pull BIND out by the roots. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 21:08:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0390106564A; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:08:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from luigi@onelab2.iet.unipi.it) Received: from onelab2.iet.unipi.it (onelab2.iet.unipi.it [131.114.59.238]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97C338FC0C; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:08:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by onelab2.iet.unipi.it (Postfix, from userid 275) id 2AFCB73027; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 23:28:16 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 23:28:16 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo To: "Alexander V. Chernikov" Message-ID: <20120703212816.GA92445@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> References: <4FF319A2.6070905@FreeBSD.org> <20120703165506.GA90114@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> <4FF32DE2.2010606@FreeBSD.org> <20120703202757.GA90741@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> <4FF356BC.2060306@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FF356BC.2060306@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, performance@freebsd.org, net@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 10G forwarding performance @Intel X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 21:08:53 -0000 On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 12:31:56AM +0400, Alexander V. Chernikov wrote: > On 04.07.2012 00:27, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > >On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 09:37:38PM +0400, Alexander V. Chernikov wrote: > >... > >>Thanks, another good point. I forgot to merge this option from andre's > >>patch. > >> > >>Another 30-40-50kpps to win. > > > >not much gain though. > >What about the other IPSTAT_INC counters ? > Well, we should then remove all such counters (total, forwarded) and > per-interface statistics (at least for forwarded packets). I am not saying to remove them for good, but at least have a try at what we can hope to save by implementing them on a per-cpu basis. There is a chance that one will not see big gains util the majority of such shared counters are fixed (there are probably 3-4 at least on the non-error path for forwarded packets), plus the per-interface ones that are not even wrapped in macros (see if_ethersubr.c) > >I think the IPSTAT_INC macros were introduced (by rwatson ?) > >following a discussion on how to make the counters per-cpu > >and avoid the contention on cache lines. > >But they are still implemented as a single instance, > >and neither volatile nor atomic, so it is not even clear > >that they can give reliable results, let alone the fact > >that you are likely to get some cache misses. > > > >the relevant macro is in ip_var.h. > Hm. This seems to be just per-vnet structure instance. yes but essentially they are still shared by all threads within a vnet (besides you probably ran your tests in the main instance) > We've got some more real DPCPU stuff (sys/pcpu.h && kern/subr_pcpu.c) > which can be used for global ipstat structure, however since it is > allocated from single area without possibility to free we can't use it > for per-interface counters. yes, those should be moved to a private, dynamically allocated region of the ifnet (the number of CPUs is known at driver init time, i hope). But again for a quick test disabling the if_{i|o}{bytesC|packets} should do the job, if you can count the received rate by some other means. > I'll try to run tests without any possibly contested counters and report > the results on Thursday. great, that would be really useful info. cheers luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 21:17:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 343E9106566B for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:17:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964F414E9AF; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:17:40 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF36174.2000806@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 14:17:40 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120621 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Felder References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 21:17:41 -0000 On 07/03/2012 06:36, Mark Felder wrote: > On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 07:39:34 -0500, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > >> >> I don't think there will be as much whinging as you expect. Times have >> changed. > > Agreed; if we need DNS in base (really, why?) then unbound+nsd are prime > candidates, but they're healthily maintained in ports...soo... no real > advantage. We should not put nsd in the base. There is no need for an authoritative server in the base, the only reason BIND is there is that it is also a resolver, and, of course, hysterical raisins. The dream scenario is one we've discussed in the past: 1. Promote certain ports to "system" status, with more stringent requirements for both the ports, and the maintainers. 2. Re-tool the installer to give the users choice of which (if any) of the key system components get installed. Obvious choices for this category are the perennial favorites of DNS (resolver) and mail, reasonable arguments can be made for others of course. Whether we do the above or not, ldns/drill should be imported into the base so that we have at least one command line DNS resolution tool. A good "junior hacker" project would be to make a host(1) clone using ldns. If users want the regular bind tools, ports/dns/bind-tools already exists. Given it's unlikely that actually making the installer more modular will happen before 10-RELEASE, importing unbound is the next best alternative. And regarding the "it's a young project" issue, I've followed their development closely, I know the people involved, and I've used it for some projects. I have zero hesitation. And for those who are unclear on the problem we're trying to solve, a quick recap. As things have evolved over time the BIND release cycles and ours have diverged. Since we don't update the version of BIND in the base for POLA reasons, for FreeBSD 6, and now 7, this has led to a situation where our oldest release has an unsupported version of BIND. Clearly this is unacceptable. Oh, and to anticipate the traditional "zomg! don't turn freebsd into linux!!!11!!!" response: First, just because linux does something doesn't make it wrong, and Second, we can definitely add a *little* more modularity (which the users have been asking for as long as I can remember) without "turning into linux." And finally, to address the "why have a resolver on the system at all?" question, one word: DNSSEC. At this time there is no good solution to the problem of the local host system being able to validate a DNSSEC response. The only viable solution _at this time_ is to have a local, validating resolver. (Of course, other solutions are being worked on, but they aren't here yet.) This will become much more important over time as DNSSEC adoption increases, and more things begin to use it (like DANE). Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 3 22:08:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91A021065670 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 22:08:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bf1783@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FBF58FC14 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 22:08:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werp13 with SMTP id p13so2948496wer.13 for ; Tue, 03 Jul 2012 15:08:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type; bh=2knnyOD7pchzC/YMRVTJ9cM9sCAL2ERJ2e3aF+xzesI=; b=QBgS/WMRW4o/cSz5mmdAOc7j+7hZcVTmO2YMBEVucehv990D1gSxFYfRUCw0qyb12S qwEJ0VMWZPt6Ef2bQqumamPiI7d4tzOm91d90PywqDMyfGIrF33imfSJQiXPwOQlqybP HmzPV3rAHglN0oc6jzxXXYVdjTXJDd0aPWBJBSQ8/JzD4olAb1rS+eeaFmkBgzJk7nl6 eLA68Si5Mmo57UPuKjNNalGhF6VJrkq+xWPPLD0IEbhAvYbJdUP1z0/LzjFb4WJjWjV+ Y8vH4X6/a3cN/y114pUIKkK1SMfxT+B4LPoN2kQcyXqSMvRwukqz4/CR1wZqKajMefS4 BKwg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.215.154 with SMTP id e26mr5212935wep.224.1341353278231; Tue, 03 Jul 2012 15:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.95.40 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 15:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 18:07:58 -0400 Message-ID: From: "b. f." To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: =?ISO-8859-9?Q?Ya=FEar_=DDslam?= Subject: Re: file version and libmagic X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: bf1783@gmail.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 22:08:01 -0000 >Why do FreeBSD-9 use still file-5.3 ? whereas file-5.09 was ready to use with updated >magic databases (was ready FreeBSD9 release date). Do you know why FreeBSD insist >to use old magic databases ? FreeBSD doesn't "insist" on the use of old versions of file -- it is just that no committer imported the new version into the base system during the time that FreeBSD 9.0 was being developed and tested. (This may have been partly influenced by the discovery of several security problems in newer versions of file, but it is more likely that the committer that usually maintains file in the base system was simply preoccupied with other matters.) You could have requested an import during that time, if you were interested. file 5.11 was recently imported into -CURRENT and 9-STABLE, so it should be in the next 9-* and 10-* releases. In the meantime, you may use ports/sysutils/file from FreeBSD Ports. Incidentally, it is more appropriate to send an inquiry of this kind to the freebsd-stable mailing list, rather than to freebsd-hackers. b. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 03:20:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51680106564A; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 03:20:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell0.rawbw.com (shell0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233B48FC12; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 03:20:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from eagle.yuri.org (stunnel@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by shell0.rawbw.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q643Kn94085117; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 20:20:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Message-ID: <4FF3B691.5090206@rawbw.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 20:20:49 -0700 From: Yuri User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120702 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexey Dokuchaev References: <4FC25A5F.4020401@rawbw.com> <20120527200850.GA63911@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20120527200850.GA63911@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nvidia-driver-295.49 is highly unstable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 03:20:55 -0000 On 05/27/2012 13:08, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > Perhaps you can try asking on official nVidia FreeBSD forum: > > http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=47 I reported there 05-28-12, but got no response. Do you know if there is a way to report a problem with NVidia? For example, is there a for example bugzilla or other bug reporting system for this? In addition, I observe system hangup for a few seconds when running glxinfo. Also I observe Xorg freeze when I run nvidia-settings. So I have to run 285.05.09 from cvs instead. Yuri From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 04:18:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1033) id 95D66106566B; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 04:18:34 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 04:18:34 +0000 From: Alexey Dokuchaev To: Yuri Message-ID: <20120704041834.GA7747@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FC25A5F.4020401@rawbw.com> <20120527200850.GA63911@FreeBSD.org> <4FF3B691.5090206@rawbw.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FF3B691.5090206@rawbw.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nvidia-driver-295.49 is highly unstable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 04:18:34 -0000 On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 08:20:49PM -0700, Yuri wrote: > On 05/27/2012 13:08, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > >Perhaps you can try asking on official nVidia FreeBSD forum: > > > > http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=47 > > I reported there 05-28-12, but got no response. That's very sad indeed. > Do you know if there is a way to report a problem with NVidia? For > example, is there a for example bugzilla or other bug reporting system > for this? Unfortunately, I am not aware of such thing being exposed to the public. Forum is the closest thing that comes to mind. Individual developers can probably be contacted privately, but AFAICT they all read forum pretty regularly, so it makes little sense to spam them directly. > In addition, I observe system hangup for a few seconds when running > glxinfo. Also I observe Xorg freeze when I run nvidia-settings. > So I have to run 285.05.09 from cvs instead. Do these issues persist with 295.59, latest long lived branch version? ./danfe From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 06:46:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95DEF106566B; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 06:46:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B1E38FC0A; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 06:46:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhfs35 with SMTP id s35so909358yhf.13 for ; Tue, 03 Jul 2012 23:46:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to; bh=H047uxNz4nPmhdpBV6D/Qzu5jRcd4R9u0qg9wTcY9nY=; b=XRjhFpcy2+5C+W5/oeOQuWz3rSA78384/f2VyentrHq28eQtRB/qiWGKUkGuP9PKMs E8bhMdz0xCKEvAlGUOfP9HNkoKlBUGh71+JKN6yx9G01ReT7IJ0yQuLzTihzvk+wrAIl 4oKHkmfpHcySqA/fm9A35xb+gjYQVQ2w1f7odYLzxLb1fUujwxvgOKKL94o4iyr8pHhL Ybtd0JTdk95tC/dXFI8XVFYdnBegy/vpo2GvcoGarzqA/+K7XwXj2IG3cqQBG2st6LnF W71G5b8kIx8/kGZhp/3s55Ab5Yce5c+lLuKLKTq6XNIXxl9PpMxXAr1Zvo/Qc7qHL4pt U3hg== Received: by 10.68.239.164 with SMTP id vt4mr14162347pbc.166.1341384377128; Tue, 03 Jul 2012 23:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.163.91.126] (mobile-166-147-094-025.mycingular.net. [166.147.94.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id qp9sm17132684pbc.9.2012.07.03.23.46.16 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 03 Jul 2012 23:46:16 -0700 (PDT) References: <4FC25A5F.4020401@rawbw.com> <20120527200850.GA63911@FreeBSD.org> <4FF3B691.5090206@rawbw.com> In-Reply-To: <4FF3B691.5090206@rawbw.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B206) From: Garrett Cooper Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 23:46:12 -0700 To: Yuri Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Alexey Dokuchaev Subject: Re: nvidia-driver-295.49 is highly unstable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 06:46:18 -0000 On Jul 3, 2012, at 8:20 PM, Yuri wrote: > On 05/27/2012 13:08, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: >> Perhaps you can try asking on official nVidia FreeBSD forum: >>=20 >> http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=3D47 >=20 > I reported there 05-28-12, but got no response. > Do you know if there is a way to report a problem with NVidia? For example= , is there a for example bugzilla or other bug reporting system for this? ... There isn't an official means to do this (maybe due to resource constraints)= , but word of warning: they ban people that nag too much about the "right" t= opics. Thanks, -Garrett= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 09:31:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 901811065673 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 09:31:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 176238FC1B for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 09:31:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcje9 with SMTP id je9so2057657bkc.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 02:31:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer; bh=UBDmB+YdVp0D5oBS37Xt5c6o+KE6Wk74LnDH5hSwKEw=; b=gKFwzdqOObvWqobavDYl79NxBpYofOU/Kg0NNllf04kdiZXofmcPO7S0DUPVMK6cWU c8eaHZvYoK1FRTmdPe9CIekY+ifJZUXKCMNRXNflybel2FNFV7bYxzXpD51xaEwx/f3m Jd67WlPiHNmICYdoNUrA7Kc5dQPhOJJZ7/vUfJP46It0T6ZsVdbnbvIWinO0XisslqTn jhb7fBjleSwFfqcLsrBmeVv77hbfvbvCnyTwv1xVPbQHLYsaKhWeyqgo05l0ss+18LNQ sIj7zJTLi9aqyStzOHQOC/3jDBWjdrTNkeIEiwHQFClP86wqhzTuH/cMinq//gQ0ozGv farw== Received: by 10.204.151.69 with SMTP id b5mr11083091bkw.69.1341394284131; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 02:31:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 9sm18542241bku.9.2012.07.04.02.30.56 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jul 2012 02:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120704.093115.712.1@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 11:31:15 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: Re: run_interrupt_driven_hooks: ... xpt_config" delay X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 09:31:25 -0000 This behaviour persist across MAJOR branches.=0D=0AThat is, I've tested = with RELs: 8.2, 8,3 and 9.0, each with it's custom KERNCONF.=0D=0AThey = all hang at exacly same "spot"!=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0AThis is latest test = ...=0D=0A=0D=0A9.0-p3:=0D=0A-------=0D=0Aident = FACTORY=0D=0A=0D=0Amakeoptions DEBUG=3D-g=0D=0A=0D=0Acpu = HAMMER=0D=0A=0D=0Adevice acpi=0D=0Adevice = ahci=0D=0Adevice atacore=0D=0Adevice atapci=0D=0Adevice = atkbd=0D=0Adevice atkbdc=0D=0Adevice = atpic=0D=0Adevice bpf=0D=0Adevice cd=0D=0Adevice = cpufreq=0D=0Adevice da=0D=0Adevice dcons=0D=0Adevice = dcons_crom=0D=0Adevice ehci=0D=0Adevice = em=0D=0Adevice ether=0D=0Adevice faith=0D=0Adevice = fdc=0D=0Adevice firewire=0D=0Adevice = firmware=0D=0Adevice fwe=0D=0Adevice fwip=0D=0Adevice = gif=0D=0Adevice loop=0D=0Adevice lpt=0D=0Adevice = md=0D=0Adevice pass=0D=0Adevice = pci=0D=0Adevice pf=0D=0Adevice plip=0D=0Adevice = ppbus=0D=0Adevice ppc=0D=0Adevice ppi=0D=0Adevice = pty=0D=0Adevice random=0D=0Adevice sc=0D=0Adevice = scbus=0D=0Adevice tun=0D=0Adevice = uhci=0D=0Adevice umass=0D=0Adevice ums=0D=0Adevice = urtw=0D=0Adevice usb=0D=0Adevice vga=0D=0Adevice = vlan=0D=0Adevice wlan=0D=0Adevice = wlan_amrr=0D=0Adevice wlan_ccmp=0D=0Adevice = wlan_tkip=0D=0Adevice wlan_wep=0D=0Adevice = wlan_xauth=0D=0A=0D=0Aoption SC_PIXEL_MODE=0D=0Aoption = VESA=0D=0A=0D=0Aoption ATA_CAM=0D=0Aoption = IEEE80211_AMPDU_AGE=0D=0Aoption IEEE80211_DEBUG=0D=0Aoption = IEEE80211_SUPPORT_MESH=0D=0Aoption SMP=0D=0A=0D=0Aoption = CD9660=0D=0Aoption FFS=0D=0Aoption = MSDOSFS=0D=0Aoption PROCFS=0D=0Aoption = PSEUDOFS=0D=0Aoption SOFTUPDATES=0D=0Aoption = UFS_DIRHASH=0D=0A=0D=0Aoption GEOM_LABEL=0D=0Aoption = GEOM_PART_GPT=0D=0A=0D=0Aoption INET=0D=0Aoption = INET6=0D=0Aoption SCTP=0D=0A=0D=0Aoption = COMPAT_43TTY=0D=0Aoption COMPAT_FREEBSD32=0D=0Aoption = COMPAT_FREEBSD4=0D=0Aoption COMPAT_FREEBSD5=0D=0Aoption = COMPAT_FREEBSD6=0D=0Aoption COMPAT_FREEBSD7=0D=0Aoption = FLOWTABLE=0D=0Aoption INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE=0D=0Aoption = KBD_INSTALL_CDEV=0D=0Aoption P1003_1B_SEMAPHORES=0D=0Aoption = PREEMPTION=0D=0Aoption PRINTF_BUFR_SIZE=3D128=0D=0Aoption = SCHED_ULE=0D=0Aoption SCSI_DELAY=3D1000=0D=0Aoption = SYSVMSG=0D=0Aoption SYSVSEM=0D=0Aoption = SYSVSHM=0D=0Aoption = _KPOSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING=0D=0A-------=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0AHanging = part:=0D=0A-------------=0D=0A ...=0D=0Augen2.2: at = usbus2=0D=0Aurtw0: on usbus2=0D=0Aurtw0: unknown RTL8187L type: = 0x8000000=0D=0Aurtw0: rtl8187l rf rtl8225u hwrev none=0D=0Augen4.2: = at usbus4=0D=0Aums0: on usbus4=0D=0Aums0: 3 buttons = and [XYZ] coordinates ID=3D0=0D=0A =3D=3D> = RUN_INTERRUPT_DRIVEN_HOOKS: STILL WAITING AFTER 60 SECONDS FOR = XPT_CONFIG=0D=0Aada0 at ahcich0 bus 0 scbus2 target 0 lun 0=0D=0Aada0: = ATA-7 SATA 1.x device=0D=0A = ...=0D=0A-------------=0D=0A=0D=0AThx in advance=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ADomagoj = Smol=E8i=E6 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 12:01:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1188D1065697 for ; 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[88.3.143.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n17sm4701782bks.6.2012.07.04.05.01.11 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jul 2012 05:01:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FF4307E.1030202@safetybits.net> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 14:01:02 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Chema_Garc=EDa?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120624 Icedove/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 OpenPGP: id=68183F86 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig2C8DA7911DACE42E56D7A0D7" X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkE9n/a5BrO9NmSVbO+3VnQsx+vuN6nTFeCaWXeYyWQ69GT1Onj0Ao+8+JkftgnHJ9r+ECF X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: DTrace issue (infinite loop) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 12:01:16 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig2C8DA7911DACE42E56D7A0D7 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060200080204090907010309" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060200080204090907010309 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000307040105010102020002" --------------000307040105010102020002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I've been trying to compile Python 2.7 with dtrace support from https://hg.jcea.es/cpython-2011/ (branch dtrace-issue13405_2.7 ) to test http://bugs.python.org/issue13405#msg164610. I've also recompiled the kernel to enable dtrace support by following http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/dtrace-enable.html , but dtrace enters into an infinite loop when compiling, and using 100% of CPU usage. I'm using FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE-p3, and used: =2E/configure --with-dtrace && make And the issue occurs at: gcc -pthread -fno-strict-aliasing -g -O2 -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I. -IInclude -I./Include -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Include/pydtrace_offsets Include/pydtrace_offsets.c Include/pydtrace_offsets.sh OTHER Python/ceval.o Include/pydtrace_offsets > Include/pydtrace_offsets.h if test "dtrace" !=3D "" ; then dtrace -o Python/pydtrace.o -DPYDTRACE_STACK_HELPER -I. -IInclude -I./Include -32 -C -G -s Include/pydtrace.d Python/ceval.o Modules/gcmodule.o=20 Objects/classobject.o Objects/typeobject.o; else touch Python/pydtrace.o ; fi; I've tried removing '-DPYDTRACE_STACK_HELPER' with same results. When running dtrace with truss, it enters in the infinite loop at: sigaction(SIGQUIT,{ SIG_DFL 0x0 ss_t },{ SIG_IGN 0x0 ss_t }) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGCHLD,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) open("Python/pydtrace.o",O_RDWR,00) =3D 4 (0x4) fstat(4,{ mode=3D-rw-r--r-- ,inode=3D22735461,size=3D6487,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,6487,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,4,0x0) =3D 674222080 (0x282fd000)= And 10 minutes after, it causes a SIGABRT: Assertion failed: (nrc =3D=3D rc), function _libelf_resync_sections, file= /usr/src/lib/libelf/elf_update.c, line 341. write(2,"Assertion failed: (nrc =3D=3D rc), f"...,114) =3D 114 (0x72) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGILL|SIGTRAP|SIGEMT|SIGFP= E|SIGKILL|SIGBUS|SIGSEGV|SIGSYS|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTERM|SIGURG|SIGSTOP|SI= GTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|SIGXFSZ|SIGVTALRM|SIG= PROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) thr_kill(0x187e7,0x6,0x28050519,0x28094200,0x1528,0x2829d5d0) =3D 0 (0x0)= SIGNAL 6 (SIGABRT) process exit, rval =3D 0 The output of ps is: USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TT STAT STARTED TIME COMMAND sch3m4 9110 100.0 0.5 36652 14992 0 RX+ 1:38PM 7:30.25 dtrace -o Python/pydtrace.o -DPYDTRACE_STACK_HELPER -I. -IInclude -I./Include -32 -C -G -s Include/pydtrace.d Python/ceval.o Modules/gcmodule.o=20 Objects/classobject.o Objects/typeobject.o Any help is welcomed. PS: Truss output attached. --=20 Un saludo, */Chema Garc=EDa/* /SafetyBits | @sch3m4 / --------------000307040105010102020002 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Hi all, I've been trying to compile Python 2.7 with dtrace support from [1]https://hg.jcea.es/cpython-2011/ (branch dtrace-issue13405_2.= 7 ) to test [2]http://bugs.python.org/issue13405#msg164610.<= br> I've also recompiled the kernel to enable dtrace support by following [3]http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/book= s/handbook/dtrace-enable.html , but dtrace enters into an infinite loop when compiling, and using 100% of CPU usage. I'm using FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE-p3, and used: ./configure --with-dtrace && make And the issue occurs at: gcc -pthread -fno-strict-aliasing -g -O2 -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I. -IInclude -I./Include -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Include/pydtrace_offsets Include/pydtrace_offsets.c Include/pydtrace_offsets.sh OTHER Python/ceval.o Include/pydtrace_offsets > Include/pydtrace_offsets.h if test "dtrace" !=3D "" ; then dtrace -o Python/pydtrace.o -DPYDTRACE_STACK_HELPER -I. -IInclude -I./Include -32 -C = -G -s Include/pydtrace.d Python/ceval.o Modules/gcmodule.o Objects/classobject.o Objects/typeobject.o; else &nb= sp; touch Python/pydtrace.o ; fi; I've tried removing '-DPYDTRACE_STACK_HELPER' with same results. When running dtrace with truss, it enters in the infinite loop at: sigaction(SIGQUIT,{ SIG_DFL 0x0 ss_t },{ SIG_IGN 0x0 ss_t }) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGCHLD,0x0) &n= bsp; =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) = =3D 0 (0x0) open("Python/pydtrace.o",O_RDWR,00) &nb= sp; =3D 4 (0x4) fstat(4,{ mode=3D-rw-r--r-- ,inode=3D22735461,size=3D6487,blksize=3D3= 2768 }) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,6487,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,4,0x0) =3D= 674222080 (0x282fd000) And 10 minutes after, it causes a SIGABRT: Assertion failed: (nrc =3D=3D rc), function _libelf_resync_sections, file /usr/src/lib/libelf/elf_update.c, line 341. write(2,"Assertion failed: (nrc =3D=3D rc), f"...,114) =3D 114 (0x72)= sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGILL|SIGTRAP|SIGEMT|S= IGFPE|SIGKILL|SIGBUS|SIGSEGV|SIGSYS|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTERM|SIGURG|SIG STO= P|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|SIGXFSZ|SIGVTA LRM= |SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) thr_kill(0x187e7,0x6,0x28050519,0x28094200,0x1528,0x2829d5d0) =3D 0 (0x0) SIGNAL 6 (SIGABRT) process exit, rval =3D 0 The output of ps is: USER PID %CPU %MEM VS= Z RSS TT STAT STARTED TIM= E COMMAND sch3m4 9110 100.0 0.5 36652 14992 = 0 RX+ 1:38PM 7:30.25 dtrace -o Python/pydtrace.o -DPYDTRACE_STACK_HELPER -I. -IInclu= de -I./Include -32 -C -G -s Include/pydtrace.d Python/ceval.= o Modules/gcmodule.o Objects/classobject.o Objects/typeobject.o Any help is welcomed. PS: Truss output attached. -- Un saludo, Chema García [4]SafetyBits | [5]@sch3m4 References 1. 3D"https://hg.jcea.es/cpython= 2. 3D"http://bugs.python.or=/ 3. 3D"http://www.freebsd.org/doc= 4. 3D"http://safetybits.net"/ 5. 3D"https://twitter.com/sch3m4" --------------000307040105010102020002-- --------------060200080204090907010309 Content-Type: text/plain; name="truss.output.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="truss.output.txt" mmap(0x0,32768,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 6716= 70272 (0x2808e000) issetugid(0x2807ccc5,0xbfbfe9d8,0x110,0x0,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/etc/libmap.conf",O_RDONLY,0666) ERR#2 'No such file or directory= ' open("/var/run/ld-elf.so.hints",O_RDONLY,00) =3D 3 (0x3) read(3,"Ehnt\^A\0\0\0\M^@\0\0\0\240\0\0"...,128) =3D 128 (0x80) lseek(3,0x80,SEEK_SET) =3D 128 (0x80) read(3,"/lib:/usr/lib:/usr/lib/compat:/u"...,160) =3D 160 (0xa0) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) access("/lib/libthr.so.3",0) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/lib/libthr.so.3",O_RDONLY,00) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D13639711,size=3D95636,blksize=3D3276= 8 }) =3D 0 (0x0) pread(0x3,0x28084040,0x1000,0x0,0x0,0x0) =3D 4096 (0x1000) mmap(0x0,135168,PROT_NONE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_NOCORE,-1,0x0) =3D 671= 703040 (0x28096000) mmap(0x28096000,94208,PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_NOCOR= E,3,0x0) =3D 671703040 (0x28096000) mmap(0x280ad000,4096,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED,3,0x16000= ) =3D 671797248 (0x280ad000) mmap(0x280ae000,36864,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_ANON= ,-1,0x0) =3D 671801344 (0x280ae000) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) access("/lib/libdtrace.so.2",0) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/lib/libdtrace.so.2",O_RDONLY,027757762334) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D13639717,size=3D480068,blksize=3D327= 68 }) =3D 0 (0x0) pread(0x3,0x28084040,0x1000,0x0,0x0,0x0) =3D 4096 (0x1000) mmap(0x0,557056,PROT_NONE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_NOCORE,-1,0x0) =3D 671= 838208 (0x280b7000) mmap(0x280b7000,454656,PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_NOCO= RE,3,0x0) =3D 671838208 (0x280b7000) mmap(0x28126000,24576,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED,3,0x6f00= 0) =3D 672292864 (0x28126000) mmap(0x2812c000,77824,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_ANON= ,-1,0x0) =3D 672317440 (0x2812c000) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) access("/lib/libproc.so.2",0) ERR#2 'No such file or directory' access("/usr/lib/libproc.so.2",0) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/usr/lib/libproc.so.2",O_RDONLY,027757762334) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D20988502,size=3D15156,blksize=3D3276= 8 }) =3D 0 (0x0) pread(0x3,0x28084040,0x1000,0x0,0x0,0x13000) =3D 4096 (0x1000) mmap(0x0,20480,PROT_NONE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_NOCORE,-1,0x0) =3D 6723= 95264 (0x2813f000) mmap(0x2813f000,16384,PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_NOCOR= E,3,0x0) =3D 672395264 (0x2813f000) mmap(0x28143000,4096,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED,3,0x3000)= =3D 672411648 (0x28143000) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) access("/lib/libctf.so.2",0) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/lib/libctf.so.2",O_RDONLY,027757762334) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D13639716,size=3D48256,blksize=3D3276= 8 }) =3D 0 (0x0) pread(0x3,0x28084040,0x1000,0x0,0x0,0x0) =3D 4096 (0x1000) mmap(0x0,49152,PROT_NONE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_NOCORE,-1,0x0) =3D 6724= 15744 (0x28144000) mmap(0x28144000,45056,PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_NOCOR= E,3,0x0) =3D 672415744 (0x28144000) mmap(0x2814f000,4096,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED,3,0xb000)= =3D 672460800 (0x2814f000) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) access("/lib/libelf.so.1",0) ERR#2 'No such file or directory' access("/usr/lib/libelf.so.1",0) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/usr/lib/libelf.so.1",O_RDONLY,027757762334) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D20988215,size=3D137444,blksize=3D327= 68 }) =3D 0 (0x0) pread(0x3,0x28084040,0x1000,0x0,0x0,0x0) =3D 4096 (0x1000) mmap(0x0,135168,PROT_NONE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_NOCORE,-1,0x0) =3D 672= 464896 (0x28150000) mmap(0x28150000,131072,PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_NOCO= RE,3,0x0) =3D 672464896 (0x28150000) mmap(0x28170000,4096,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED,3,0x1f000= ) =3D 672595968 (0x28170000) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) access("/lib/libz.so.6",0) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/lib/libz.so.6",O_RDONLY,027757762334) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D13639714,size=3D76904,blksize=3D3276= 8 }) =3D 0 (0x0) pread(0x3,0x28084040,0x1000,0x0,0x0,0x0) =3D 4096 (0x1000) mmap(0x0,81920,PROT_NONE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_NOCORE,-1,0x0) =3D 6726= 00064 (0x28171000) mmap(0x28171000,77824,PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_NOCOR= E,3,0x0) =3D 672600064 (0x28171000) mmap(0x28184000,4096,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED,3,0x12000= ) =3D 672677888 (0x28184000) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) access("/lib/libutil.so.9",0) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/lib/libutil.so.9",O_RDONLY,027757762334) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D13639690,size=3D68012,blksize=3D3276= 8 }) =3D 0 (0x0) pread(0x3,0x28084040,0x1000,0x0,0x0,0x0) =3D 4096 (0x1000) mmap(0x0,69632,PROT_NONE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_NOCORE,-1,0x0) =3D 6726= 81984 (0x28185000) mmap(0x28185000,61440,PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_NOCOR= E,3,0x0) =3D 672681984 (0x28185000) mmap(0x28194000,4096,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED,3,0xf000)= =3D 672743424 (0x28194000) mmap(0x28195000,4096,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_ANON,= -1,0x0) =3D 672747520 (0x28195000) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) access("/lib/librtld_db.so.2",0) ERR#2 'No such file or directory' access("/usr/lib/librtld_db.so.2",0) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/usr/lib/librtld_db.so.2",O_RDONLY,027757762334) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D20988513,size=3D6344,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) pread(0x3,0x28084040,0x1000,0x0,0x0,0x1000) =3D 4096 (0x1000) mmap(0x0,12288,PROT_NONE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_NOCORE,-1,0x0) =3D 6727= 51616 (0x28196000) mmap(0x28196000,8192,PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_NOCORE= ,3,0x0) =3D 672751616 (0x28196000) mmap(0x28198000,4096,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED,3,0x1000)= =3D 672759808 (0x28198000) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) access("/lib/libc.so.7",0) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/lib/libc.so.7",O_RDONLY,027757762334) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D13639682,size=3D1174824,blksize=3D32= 768 }) =3D 0 (0x0) pread(0x3,0x28084040,0x1000,0x0,0x0,0x0) =3D 4096 (0x1000) mmap(0x0,1175552,PROT_NONE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_NOCORE,-1,0x0) =3D 67= 2763904 (0x28199000) mmap(0x28199000,1056768,PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_NOC= ORE,3,0x0) =3D 672763904 (0x28199000) mmap(0x2829b000,24576,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED,3,0x1020= 00) =3D 673820672 (0x2829b000) mmap(0x282a1000,94208,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_ANON= ,-1,0x0) =3D 673845248 (0x282a1000) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,36864,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 6739= 39456 (0x282b8000) munmap(0x282bd000,16384) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,69632,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 6739= 59936 (0x282bd000) sysarch(0xa,0xbfbfe560,0x2805143b,0x280817bc,0x2805c9d9,0x280817bc) =3D 0= (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGKILL|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTE= RM|SIGURG|SIGSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|S= IGXFSZ|SIGVTALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0= ) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGKILL|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTE= RM|SIGURG|SIGSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|S= IGXFSZ|SIGVTALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0= ) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGKILL|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTE= RM|SIGURG|SIGSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|S= IGXFSZ|SIGVTALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0= ) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGKILL|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTE= RM|SIGURG|SIGSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|S= IGXFSZ|SIGVTALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0= ) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGKILL|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTE= RM|SIGURG|SIGSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|S= IGXFSZ|SIGVTALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0= ) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGKILL|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTE= RM|SIGURG|SIGSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|S= IGXFSZ|SIGVTALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0= ) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGKILL|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTE= RM|SIGURG|SIGSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|S= IGXFSZ|SIGVTALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0= ) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGKILL|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTE= RM|SIGURG|SIGSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|S= IGXFSZ|SIGVTALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0= ) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGKILL|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTE= RM|SIGURG|SIGSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|S= IGXFSZ|SIGVTALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0= ) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) getpid() =3D 9110 (0x2396) __sysctl(0xbfbfe4fc,0x2,0x280b6140,0xbfbfe508,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbfbfe414,0x2,0xbfbfe454,0xbfbfe4bc,0x280a8e56,0xd) =3D 0 (0x0)= __sysctl(0xbfbfe454,0x3,0x280b5448,0xbfbfe508,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) readlink("/etc/malloc.conf",0xbfbfe006,1024) ERR#2 'No such file or dire= ctory' issetugid(0x28291281,0xbfbfe006,0x400,0x0,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) break(0x8400000) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,4194304,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 67= 4029568 (0x282ce000) mmap(0x286ce000,1253376,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0)= =3D 678223872 (0x286ce000) munmap(0x282ce000,1253376) =3D 0 (0x0) thr_self(0x28404300,0x280b5448,0xbfbfe508,0x0,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0xbf9ff000,4096,PROT_NONE,MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D -1080037376 (0xbf9ff= 000) rtprio_thread(0x0,0x187e7,0xbfbfe4bc,0x28091200,0x210,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sysarch(0xa,0xbfbfe4d0,0xbfbfe504,0x2809058c,0x281e6a99,0x280ad138) =3D 0= (0x0) sigaction(32,{ 0x280a1cc0 SA_SIGINFO ss_t },0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_UNBLOCK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGKILL|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTE= RM|SIGURG|SIGSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|S= IGXFSZ|SIGVTALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0= ) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbfbfe350,0x2,0x2846be54,0xbfbfe358,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbfbfe350,0x2,0x2846bf54,0xbfbfe358,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbfbfe350,0x2,0x2846c054,0xbfbfe358,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbfbfe350,0x2,0x2846c154,0xbfbfe358,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbfbfe350,0x2,0x2846c254,0xbfbfe358,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbfbfe2b4,0x2,0xbfbfe2f4,0xbfbfe35c,0x28118b1c,0xd) =3D 0 (0x0)= __sysctl(0xbfbfe2f4,0x2,0xbfbfe458,0xbfbfe44c,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) kldnext(0) =3D 1 (0x1) kldstat(1,0xbfbfd304) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/boot/kernel/kernel",O_RDONLY,00) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r-xr-xr-x ,inode=3D11555883,size=3D16787157,blksize=3D3= 2768 }) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r-xr-xr-x ,inode=3D11555883,size=3D16787157,blksize=3D3= 2768 }) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,16787157,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,3,0x0) =3D 679477248 (0x28800000= ) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) kldnext(1) =3D 2 (0x2) kldstat(2,0xbfbfd304) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/boot/kernel/reiserfs.ko",O_RDONLY,00) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r-xr-xr-x ,inode=3D11556866,size=3D57251,blksize=3D3276= 8 }) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r-xr-xr-x ,inode=3D11556866,size=3D57251,blksize=3D3276= 8 }) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,57251,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,3,0x0) =3D 674029568 (0x282ce000) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) kldnext(2) =3D 3 (0x3) kldstat(3,0xbfbfd304) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/boot/kernel/accf_data.ko",O_RDONLY,00) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r-xr-xr-x ,inode=3D11555895,size=3D6026,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r-xr-xr-x ,inode=3D11555895,size=3D6026,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,6026,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,3,0x0) =3D 674086912 (0x282dc000) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) kldnext(3) =3D 4 (0x4) kldstat(4,0xbfbfd304) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/boot/kernel/accf_http.ko",O_RDONLY,00) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r-xr-xr-x ,inode=3D11555899,size=3D9639,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r-xr-xr-x ,inode=3D11555899,size=3D9639,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,9639,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,3,0x0) =3D 674095104 (0x282de000) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) kldnext(4) =3D 5 (0x5) kldstat(5,0xbfbfd304) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/boot/kernel/runfw.ko",O_RDONLY,00) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r-xr-xr-x ,inode=3D11556870,size=3D13383,blksize=3D3276= 8 }) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r-xr-xr-x ,inode=3D11556870,size=3D13383,blksize=3D3276= 8 }) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,13383,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,3,0x0) =3D 674107392 (0x282e1000) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) kldnext(5) =3D 6 (0x6) kldstat(6,0xbfbfd304) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/boot/modules/cuse4bsd.ko",O_RDONLY,00) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r-xr-xr-x ,inode=3D11557227,size=3D17783,blksize=3D3276= 8 }) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-r-xr-xr-x ,inode=3D11557227,size=3D17783,blksize=3D3276= 8 }) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,17783,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,3,0x0) =3D 674123776 (0x282e5000) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) kldnext(6) =3D 0 (0x0) getegid() =3D 1001 (0x3e9) geteuid() =3D 1001 (0x3e9) getgid() =3D 1001 (0x3e9) getpid() =3D 9110 (0x2396) getpgid(0) =3D 9108 (0x2394) getppid() =3D 9108 (0x2394) getsid(0) =3D 2518 (0x9d6) getuid() =3D 1001 (0x3e9) mmap(0x0,706,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 674144= 256 (0x282ea000) mprotect(0x282ea000,706,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,730,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 674148= 352 (0x282eb000) mprotect(0x282eb000,730,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282ea000,706) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,480,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 674144= 256 (0x282ea000) mprotect(0x282ea000,480,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,8388608,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 69= 6266752 (0x29803000) munmap(0x29803000,4182016) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x2a000000,12288) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,1309327,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 69= 6266752 (0x29803000) mprotect(0x29803000,1309327,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,8388608,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 70= 4643072 (0x2a000000) munmap(0x2a400000,4194304) =3D 0 (0x0) ioctl(0,TIOCGETA,0xbfbfdbf0) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,41403,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 6741= 52448 (0x282ec000) mprotect(0x282ec000,41403,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,5999,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 67419= 7504 (0x282f7000) mprotect(0x282f7000,5999,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,7748,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 67420= 5696 (0x282f9000) mprotect(0x282f9000,7748,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,3122,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 67421= 3888 (0x282fb000) mprotect(0x282fb000,3122,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) ioctl(0,TIOCGETA,0xbfbfdbb0) =3D 0 (0x0) open("Include/pydtrace.d",O_RDONLY,0666) =3D 3 (0x3) stat("/usr/lib/dtrace",{ mode=3Ddrwxr-xr-x ,inode=3D20988182,size=3D512,b= lksize=3D32768 }) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/usr/lib/dtrace",O_NONBLOCK|0x20000,01) =3D 4 (0x4) fstat(4,{ mode=3Ddrwxr-xr-x ,inode=3D20988182,size=3D512,blksize=3D32768 = }) =3D 0 (0x0) fcntl(4,F_SETFD,FD_CLOEXEC) =3D 0 (0x0) fstatfs(0x4,0xbfbfdf50,0x1,0x0,0x0,0x4) =3D 0 (0x0) getdirentries(0x4,0x2a14d000,0x1000,0x284bf9e4,0x0,0x28094200) =3D 512 (0= x200) open("/usr/lib/dtrace/errno.d",O_RDONLY,0666) =3D 5 (0x5) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(5,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D20988733,size=3D6908,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) read(5,"/*\n * CDDL HEADER START\n *\n *"...,32768) =3D 6908 (0x1afc) read(5,0x2a197000,32768) =3D 0 (0x0) ioctl(0,TIOCGETA,0xbfbfda20) =3D 0 (0x0) close(5) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/usr/lib/dtrace/psinfo.d",O_RDONLY,0666) =3D 5 (0x5) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(5,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D20988734,size=3D3194,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) read(5,"/*\n * CDDL HEADER START\n *\n *"...,32768) =3D 3194 (0xc7a) read(5,0x2a197000,32768) =3D 0 (0x0) ioctl(0,TIOCGETA,0xbfbfda20) =3D 0 (0x0) close(5) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/usr/lib/dtrace/signal.d",O_RDONLY,0666) =3D 5 (0x5) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(5,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D20988735,size=3D3119,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) read(5,"/*\n * CDDL HEADER START\n *\n *"...,32768) =3D 3119 (0xc2f) read(5,0x2a197000,32768) =3D 0 (0x0) ioctl(0,TIOCGETA,0xbfbfda20) =3D 0 (0x0) close(5) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/usr/lib/dtrace/unistd.d",O_RDONLY,0666) =3D 5 (0x5) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(5,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D20988736,size=3D2017,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) read(5,"/*\n * CDDL HEADER START\n *\n *"...,32768) =3D 2017 (0x7e1) read(5,0x2a197000,32768) =3D 0 (0x0) ioctl(0,TIOCGETA,0xbfbfda20) =3D 0 (0x0) close(5) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/usr/lib/dtrace/regs_x86.d",O_RDONLY,0666) =3D 5 (0x5) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(5,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D20988737,size=3D3601,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) read(5,"/* "...,32768) =3D 3601 (0xe11) read(5,0x2a197000,32768) =3D 0 (0x0) ioctl(0,TIOCGETA,0xbfbfda20) =3D 0 (0x0) close(5) =3D 0 (0x0) getdirentries(0x4,0x2a14d000,0x1000,0x284bf9e4,0xbfbfe3f3,0x2812ad44) =3D= 0 (0x0) lseek(4,0x0,SEEK_SET) =3D 0 (0x0) close(4) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/usr/lib/dtrace/regs_x86.d",O_RDONLY,0666) =3D 4 (0x4) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(4,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D20988737,size=3D3601,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) read(4,"/* "...,32768) =3D 3601 (0xe11) read(4,0x2a154000,32768) =3D 0 (0x0) ioctl(0,TIOCGETA,0xbfbfda00) =3D 0 (0x0) close(4) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/usr/lib/dtrace/unistd.d",O_RDONLY,0666) =3D 4 (0x4) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(4,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D20988736,size=3D2017,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) read(4,"/*\n * CDDL HEADER START\n *\n *"...,32768) =3D 2017 (0x7e1) read(4,0x2a154000,32768) =3D 0 (0x0) ioctl(0,TIOCGETA,0xbfbfda00) =3D 0 (0x0) close(4) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/usr/lib/dtrace/signal.d",O_RDONLY,0666) =3D 4 (0x4) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(4,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D20988735,size=3D3119,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) read(4,"/*\n * CDDL HEADER START\n *\n *"...,32768) =3D 3119 (0xc2f) read(4,0x2a154000,32768) =3D 0 (0x0) ioctl(0,TIOCGETA,0xbfbfda00) =3D 0 (0x0) close(4) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/usr/lib/dtrace/psinfo.d",O_RDONLY,0666) =3D 4 (0x4) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(4,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D20988734,size=3D3194,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) read(4,"/*\n * CDDL HEADER START\n *\n *"...,32768) =3D 3194 (0xc7a) read(4,0x2a154000,32768) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,495,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 674217= 984 (0x282fc000) mprotect(0x282fc000,495,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282ea000,480) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,647,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 674144= 256 (0x282ea000) mprotect(0x282ea000,647,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282fc000,495) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,708,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 674217= 984 (0x282fc000) mprotect(0x282fc000,708,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282ea000,647) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,787,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 674144= 256 (0x282ea000) mprotect(0x282ea000,787,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282fc000,708) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,805,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 674217= 984 (0x282fc000) mprotect(0x282fc000,805,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282ea000,787) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,822,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 674144= 256 (0x282ea000) mprotect(0x282ea000,822,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282fc000,805) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,830,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 674217= 984 (0x282fc000) mprotect(0x282fc000,830,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282ea000,822) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,847,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 674144= 256 (0x282ea000) mprotect(0x282ea000,847,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282fc000,830) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,981,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 674217= 984 (0x282fc000) mprotect(0x282fc000,981,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282ea000,847) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,1000,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 67414= 4256 (0x282ea000) mprotect(0x282ea000,1000,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282fc000,981) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,1008,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON,-1,0x0) =3D 67421= 7984 (0x282fc000) mprotect(0x282fc000,1008,PROT_READ) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282ea000,1000) =3D 0 (0x0) ioctl(0,TIOCGETA,0xbfbfda00) =3D 0 (0x0) close(4) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/usr/lib/dtrace/errno.d",O_RDONLY,0666) =3D 4 (0x4) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(4,{ mode=3D-r--r--r-- ,inode=3D20988733,size=3D6908,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) read(4,"/*\n * CDDL HEADER START\n *\n *"...,32768) =3D 6908 (0x1afc) read(4,0x2a154000,32768) =3D 0 (0x0) ioctl(0,TIOCGETA,0xbfbfda00) =3D 0 (0x0) close(4) =3D 0 (0x0) issetugid(0xbfbfe1b4,0x0,0x5,0x2829137f,0x28,0x5) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGILL|SIGTRAP|SIGABRT|SIGEMT= |SIGFPE|SIGKILL|SIGBUS|SIGSEGV|SIGSYS|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTERM|SIGURG|SIGS= TOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|SIGXFSZ|SIGVTAL= RM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/dev/random",O_RDONLY,00) =3D 4 (0x4) read(4,"\M-=3D\b\M-^<\M-h\M-7q\M-*\^N\M^C=3D"...,128) =3D 128 (0x80) close(4) =3D 0 (0x0) stat("/tmp",{ mode=3Ddrwxrwxrwt ,inode=3D7009280,size=3D512,blksize=3D327= 68 }) =3D 0 (0x0) open("/tmp/tmp.K8UXDy",O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_EXCL,0600) =3D 4 (0x4) unlink("/tmp/tmp.K8UXDy") =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) fcntl(4,F_GETFL,) =3D 2 (0x2) ioctl(3,TIOCGETA,0xbfbfe1a0) ERR#25 'Inappropriate ioctl for device' lseek(3,0x0,SEEK_CUR) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-rw-r--r-- ,inode=3D22646429,size=3D830,blksize=3D32768 = }) =3D 0 (0x0) read(3,"provider python {\n probe fun"...,32768) =3D 830 (0x33e) lseek(3,0x0,SEEK_CUR) =3D 830 (0x33e) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,SIGCHLD,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGILL|SIGTRAP|SIGABRT|SIGE= MT|SIGFPE|SIGKILL|SIGBUS|SIGSEGV|SIGSYS|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTERM|SIGURG|SI= GSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|SIGXFSZ|SIGVT= ALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,SIGCHLD) =3D 0 (0x0) sigaction(SIGCHLD,{ SIG_DFL 0x0 ss_t },{ SIG_DFL SA_RESTART ss_t }) =3D 0= (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGCHLD,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGILL|SIGTRAP|SIGABRT|SIGEMT= |SIGFPE|SIGKILL|SIGBUS|SIGSEGV|SIGSYS|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTERM|SIGURG|SIGS= TOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|SIGXFSZ|SIGVTAL= RM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,SIGCHLD) =3D 0 (0x0) fork() =3D 9111 (0x2397) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGCHLD,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) wait4(0x2397,0xbfbfe3e0,0x0,0x0,0x286,0x280ad138) =3D 9111 (0x2397) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGILL|SIGTRAP|SIGABRT|SIGE= MT|SIGFPE|SIGKILL|SIGBUS|SIGSEGV|SIGSYS|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTERM|SIGURG|SI= GSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|SIGXFSZ|SIGVT= ALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,SIGCHLD) =3D 0 (0x0) sigaction(SIGCHLD,{ SIG_DFL SA_RESTART ss_t },{ SIG_DFL 0x0 ss_t }) =3D 0= (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGCHLD,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) fstat(4,{ mode=3D-rw------- ,inode=3D7009287,size=3D831,blksize=3D32768 }= ) =3D 0 (0x0) lseek(4,0x0,SEEK_SET) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) read(4,"\n\nprovider python {\n probe"...,32768) =3D 831 (0x33f) read(4,0x2a15c000,32768) =3D 0 (0x0) ioctl(0,TIOCGETA,0xbfbfe060) =3D 0 (0x0) close(4) =3D 0 (0x0) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) ioctl(0,TIOCGETA,0xbfbfe080) =3D 0 (0x0) access("Python/pydtrace.o",4) ERR#2 'No such file or directory' open("Python/ceval.o",O_RDWR,00) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-rw-r--r-- ,inode=3D22735375,size=3D163664,blksize=3D327= 68 }) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,163664,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,3,0x0) =3D 674222080 (0x282fd000) stat("Python/ceval.o",{ mode=3D-rw-r--r-- ,inode=3D22735375,size=3D163664= ,blksize=3D32768 }) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282fd000,163664) =3D 0 (0x0) write(3,"\^?ELF\^A\^A\^A\t\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"...,163664) =3D 163664 (0x27f50)= lseek(3,0x0,SEEK_SET) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,163664,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,3,0x0) =3D 674222080 (0x282fd000) madvise(0x2a297000,0x28000,0x5,0x804f398,0x804f390,0x4) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282fd000,163664) =3D 0 (0x0) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) open("Modules/gcmodule.o",O_RDWR,00) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-rw-r--r-- ,inode=3D22735440,size=3D64580,blksize=3D3276= 8 }) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,64580,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,3,0x0) =3D 674222080 (0x282fd000) stat("Modules/gcmodule.o",{ mode=3D-rw-r--r-- ,inode=3D22735440,size=3D64= 580,blksize=3D32768 }) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282fd000,64580) =3D 0 (0x0) write(3,"\^?ELF\^A\^A\^A\t\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"...,64580) =3D 64580 (0xfc44) lseek(3,0x0,SEEK_SET) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,64580,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,3,0x0) =3D 674222080 (0x282fd000) munmap(0x282fd000,64580) =3D 0 (0x0) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) open("Objects/classobject.o",O_RDWR,00) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-rw-r--r-- ,inode=3D22735495,size=3D163404,blksize=3D327= 68 }) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,163404,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,3,0x0) =3D 674222080 (0x282fd000) stat("Objects/classobject.o",{ mode=3D-rw-r--r-- ,inode=3D22735495,size=3D= 163404,blksize=3D32768 }) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282fd000,163404) =3D 0 (0x0) write(3,"\^?ELF\^A\^A\^A\t\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"...,163404) =3D 163404 (0x27e4c)= lseek(3,0x0,SEEK_SET) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,163404,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,3,0x0) =3D 674222080 (0x282fd000) madvise(0x2a261000,0x28000,0x5,0x804f398,0x804f390,0x4) =3D 0 (0x0) madvise(0x2a213000,0x6000,0x5,0x804f398,0x804f390,0x4) =3D 0 (0x0) madvise(0x2a20d000,0x1000,0x5,0x804f398,0x804f390,0x4) =3D 0 (0x0) madvise(0x2a1c0000,0x7000,0x5,0x804f398,0x804f390,0x4) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282fd000,163404) =3D 0 (0x0) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) open("Objects/typeobject.o",O_RDWR,00) =3D 3 (0x3) fstat(3,{ mode=3D-rw-r--r-- ,inode=3D22735393,size=3D321476,blksize=3D327= 68 }) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,321476,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,3,0x0) =3D 674222080 (0x282fd000) stat("Objects/typeobject.o",{ mode=3D-rw-r--r-- ,inode=3D22735393,size=3D= 321476,blksize=3D32768 }) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282fd000,321476) =3D 0 (0x0) write(3,"\^?ELF\^A\^A\^A\t\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"...,321476) =3D 321476 (0x4e7c4)= lseek(3,0x0,SEEK_SET) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,321476,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,3,0x0) =3D 674222080 (0x282fd000) madvise(0x2a2a4000,0x4f000,0x5,0x804f398,0x804f390,0x4) =3D 0 (0x0) madvise(0x2a25f000,0x3000,0x5,0x804f398,0x804f390,0x4) =3D 0 (0x0) madvise(0x2a25c000,0x1000,0x5,0x804f398,0x804f390,0x4) =3D 0 (0x0) madvise(0x2a204000,0x8000,0x5,0x804f398,0x804f390,0x4) =3D 0 (0x0) madvise(0x2a1fc000,0x1000,0x5,0x804f398,0x804f390,0x4) =3D 0 (0x0) madvise(0x2a1b9000,0x2000,0x5,0x804f398,0x804f390,0x4) =3D 0 (0x0) madvise(0x2a190000,0x1c000,0x5,0x804f398,0x804f390,0x4) =3D 0 (0x0) munmap(0x282fd000,321476) =3D 0 (0x0) close(3) =3D 0 (0x0) open("Python/pydtrace.o.tmp",O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC,0666) =3D 3 (0x3) write(3,"\^?DOF\^A\^A\^B\^B\b\b\0\0\0\0\0"...,3972) =3D 3972 (0xf84) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGILL|SIGTRAP|SIGABRT|SIGE= MT|SIGFPE|SIGKILL|SIGBUS|SIGSEGV|SIGSYS|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTERM|SIGURG|SI= GSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|SIGXFSZ|SIGVT= ALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigaction(SIGINT,{ SIG_IGN 0x0 ss_t },{ SIG_DFL 0x0 ss_t }) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGILL|SIGTRAP|SIGABRT|SIGE= MT|SIGFPE|SIGKILL|SIGBUS|SIGSEGV|SIGSYS|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTERM|SIGURG|SI= GSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|SIGXFSZ|SIGVT= ALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigaction(SIGQUIT,{ SIG_IGN 0x0 ss_t },{ SIG_DFL 0x0 ss_t }) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,SIGCHLD,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_BLOCK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGILL|SIGTRAP|SIGABRT|SIGEMT= |SIGFPE|SIGKILL|SIGBUS|SIGSEGV|SIGSYS|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTERM|SIGURG|SIGS= TOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|SIGXFSZ|SIGVTAL= RM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,SIGCHLD) =3D 0 (0x0) fork() =3D 9113 (0x2399) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGCHLD,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) wait4(0x2399,0xbfbfde48,0x0,0x0,0xbfbfddf0,0xbfbfde24) =3D 9113 (0x2399) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGILL|SIGTRAP|SIGABRT|SIGE= MT|SIGFPE|SIGKILL|SIGBUS|SIGSEGV|SIGSYS|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTERM|SIGURG|SI= GSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|SIGXFSZ|SIGVT= ALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,SIGCHLD) =3D 0 (0x0) sigaction(SIGINT,{ SIG_DFL 0x0 ss_t },{ SIG_IGN 0x0 ss_t }) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGCHLD,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGILL|SIGTRAP|SIGABRT|SIGE= MT|SIGFPE|SIGKILL|SIGBUS|SIGSEGV|SIGSYS|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTERM|SIGURG|SI= GSTOP|SIGTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|SIGXFSZ|SIGVT= ALRM|SIGPROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,SIGCHLD) =3D 0 (0x0) sigaction(SIGQUIT,{ SIG_DFL 0x0 ss_t },{ SIG_IGN 0x0 ss_t }) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGCHLD,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,0x0,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) open("Python/pydtrace.o",O_RDWR,00) =3D 4 (0x4) fstat(4,{ mode=3D-rw-r--r-- ,inode=3D22735461,size=3D6487,blksize=3D32768= }) =3D 0 (0x0) mmap(0x0,6487,PROT_READ,MAP_PRIVATE,4,0x0) =3D 674222080 (0x282fd000) Assertion failed: (nrc =3D=3D rc), function _libelf_resync_sections, file= /usr/src/lib/libelf/elf_update.c, line 341. write(2,"Assertion failed: (nrc =3D=3D rc), f"...,114) =3D 114 (0x72) sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK,SIGHUP|SIGINT|SIGQUIT|SIGILL|SIGTRAP|SIGEMT|SIGFP= E|SIGKILL|SIGBUS|SIGSEGV|SIGSYS|SIGPIPE|SIGALRM|SIGTERM|SIGURG|SIGSTOP|SI= GTSTP|SIGCONT|SIGCHLD|SIGTTIN|SIGTTOU|SIGIO|SIGXCPU|SIGXFSZ|SIGVTALRM|SIG= PROF|SIGWINCH|SIGINFO|SIGUSR1|SIGUSR2,0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) thr_kill(0x187e7,0x6,0x28050519,0x28094200,0x1528,0x2829d5d0) =3D 0 (0x0)= SIGNAL 6 (SIGABRT) process exit, rval =3D 0 --------------060200080204090907010309-- --------------enig2C8DA7911DACE42E56D7A0D7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJP9DCFAAoJEIhVozRoGD+G5J0P/iA42zmjLSM8Cq4Aa/sEJo9s oWt6uz9nGMhiSMzTpMp1irtMzGA9L/NIaoP/5RTffMeFpVJAxwCt8lXwTF0bpOcx RMqvAKzNDUrLty7W3beZtuX31EAfNvapnAZftBvgax3xMTyGkFQjMTaXX6Ad6C3N dcxE6hqrCLKAhYg0R3HnY1SqtPudH14CwS2IuHYDKm9e07kIY17si5nqoLCWEvtT 5wzoO/m8169t38XvulMmq+m9Fnm/LLyKlxTz4fLqfTxC6Gvrv3NHzHcx0fozZo8N K7nRHnK6Nqe562p4svaUNR6XD3tfdafXjfkrXmKUhrh/BcSDbPmaYeihCBSKSk1C /9CrD8JYHOXb3ZbThqriL4VR4dSDfc+57qExi2P6gkCVrdHxRKAQLx4dIq+npUj1 erQLrcgGF9zKwHC8kM76qC36N4fA49rT+kGhyrpXfjMZmjQcpS11EsiZoiiXUCSm 5HxLQ+0GiVvfZ8mqHs+21yx88qwiQ8gxtJe129A3TTge3ST3xthqag8K5bm9qiA0 BImEBfVf5t8knslK7sUCHTFLgxQPFPKlTkCKsEhS1tHgNZVAs+uDYUYgkxN04uX+ N2CEPI5EAcu74GB6+xBpvR8THBeCnp/rqsF/CSzlxgxlci8NALqhNOMLPaSqDrHP nYK0rcX5MuWtkHXLtI8F =o35J -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig2C8DA7911DACE42E56D7A0D7-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 16:51:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE9461065673 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 16:51:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simon@qxnitro.org) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672528FC0A for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 16:51:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so7826487ghb.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 09:51:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=qxnitro.org; s=google; h=mime-version:sender:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=6CyPwBbCn5BorhtyovamEMpDQiFfjXdap5yjb9FMBNA=; b=Kkj+uIchxG3/2a0rJUkvLXaburA2C++XBQYIkhTn9RfF4nPB1SraiSBZ5o30nyck7h afXGUNMzOjXs7FGzf0DGP0wj6iRoZscM56rpPt7eA8yqjDp4Zf24XGFn6yHLiXMcSBGy iyj9i+boDb+E3khCA5m8eW+x5A9txNZMRawcg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=6CyPwBbCn5BorhtyovamEMpDQiFfjXdap5yjb9FMBNA=; b=VucarrDsRkz63G+OhNo+pwbtrRJm7fJZCE+WF3amMKbz/NbLyXQ+uCPjcohQf19hvs YjJb55V+PE9x8lk3TJiL3Ee6eW9tTdmvIifpoA8Xb1YGhxwS6xOYxvhV/8hs4gyPBms5 eKSCjZSbRCaCwfklY/d+wZyNM1EEh2sf5gMU7+RuYl1Ntz3x3esfItdT5LTRWlF2MlyT x1MY3pZadph1qE152Ox5jTT/R4ZzSL1vjjsku1EH9tvIJZB/gtaBNLlz/xfPnReCnfFI TkqJJXgkWTSVbp/CJA4L9hDtEX5MTjL5h8qHjqcOxs0xRjAO9eQeTOeSWq+vyGQPdI4/ zdvg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.153.161 with SMTP id vh1mr13834319igb.3.1341420712341; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 09:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Sender: simon@qxnitro.org Received: by 10.64.18.206 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 09:51:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [2620:0:1040:201:6d04:4bfa:a90:43d6] In-Reply-To: <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 17:51:52 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: f6TMIXHKUy4GJL00uXKAxQ20aIc Message-ID: From: "Simon L. B. Nielsen" To: Doug Barton Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnLQ1tL6CD5TnGT2C2h1w4EJl3JJUcPPD9X+xsiXtECw8ZGob6LI0JMjB/iDmYQJU1jV/2U Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Dag=2DErling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 16:51:53 -0000 On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > On 07/03/2012 05:39, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav wrote: >> Doug Barton writes: >>> The correct solution to this problem is to remove BIND from the base >>> altogether, but I have no energy for all the whinging that would happen >>> if I tried (again) to do that. >> >> I don't think there will be as much whinging as you expect. Times have >> changed. >> >> I'm willing to import and maintain unbound (BSD-licensed validating, >> recursive, and caching DNS resolver) if you remove BIND. > > You've got a deal! > > Unbound requires ldns, which is a good thing. Part of this project would How's the security support for ldns / unbound? For third party software sitting in the 'frontline' that part is rather important. > also be to enable drill so that we have a command-line dns lookup tool > in the base, but that's trivial once you've got ldns imported. Does that means loosing host(1) ? That would be somewhat annoying. --=20 Simon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 17:01:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 446D5106564A; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 17:01:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0DB8FC0A; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 17:01:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so13393464lbo.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 10:01:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=aHw47E1E5xZlQ15DCRjENszanWd986Ud1CfkaHytyAg=; b=jXnsiJ5AXGQ/Ro5wq2VRHPjoFZa9zZpo7ebvlmeRACVXmwOKnVSEnYbBBcZuxqVpBr O23irFBEY6HxUKf08bWnJlItHZZZNdANXOfi0bMHY2vPqwznYgblwxOhLg7JPVQOGkOK py28+gQ96DqtPrpVb5Asg9qiRbdD5nnzZg9U2IRzzXyD/jEGnEshH1kIvibN9YdBxaPS FzTWpeG8ctJwl74R5w3e+AhGm7R8Y9YNe6ma5k3yW5cvl4IafCOajfkFbSuQ2ZPCrPI+ 8FfvYKvOvCjjXDl+Ze4L5VBV8ru5sixKrIOh2ne7zf9bRqO8bqOrMmVP99/Qk+KKKAE0 sVnA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.48.37 with SMTP id i5mr22441192lan.36.1341421264720; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 10:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.37.74 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 10:01:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 10:01:04 -0700 Message-ID: From: Freddie Cash To: "Simon L. B. Nielsen" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Doug Barton , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Dag=2DErling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 17:01:07 -0000 On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Simon L. B. Nielsen wro= te: > On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Doug Barton wrote: >> On 07/03/2012 05:39, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav wrote: >>> Doug Barton writes: >>>> The correct solution to this problem is to remove BIND from the base >>>> altogether, but I have no energy for all the whinging that would happe= n >>>> if I tried (again) to do that. >>> >>> I don't think there will be as much whinging as you expect. Times have >>> changed. >>> >>> I'm willing to import and maintain unbound (BSD-licensed validating, >>> recursive, and caching DNS resolver) if you remove BIND. >> >> You've got a deal! >> >> Unbound requires ldns, which is a good thing. Part of this project would > > How's the security support for ldns / unbound? For third party > software sitting in the 'frontline' that part is rather important. > >> also be to enable drill so that we have a command-line dns lookup tool >> in the base, but that's trivial once you've got ldns imported. > > Does that means loosing host(1) ? That would be somewhat annoying. There's a version of host based on unbound. At least, there's an unbound-host package for Debian Linux: http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=3Dunbound-host --=20 Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 17:14:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9B3C106566C for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 17:14:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-listen@fabiankeil.de) Received: from smtprelay02.ispgateway.de (smtprelay02.ispgateway.de [80.67.31.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 830648FC08 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 17:14:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [78.35.128.44] (helo=fabiankeil.de) by smtprelay02.ispgateway.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1SmT3j-0006Lc-NZ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 19:08:11 +0200 Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 19:07:59 +0200 From: Fabian Keil To: Chema =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Garc=EDa?= Message-ID: <20120704190759.461015c1@fabiankeil.de> In-Reply-To: <4FF4307E.1030202@safetybits.net> References: <4FF4307E.1030202@safetybits.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/xV2pqKoNfJdf3borTiwjwQX"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Df-Sender: Nzc1MDY3 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DTrace issue (infinite loop) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 17:14:07 -0000 --Sig_/xV2pqKoNfJdf3borTiwjwQX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chema Garc=EDa wrote: > I've been trying to compile Python 2.7 with dtrace support from > https://hg.jcea.es/cpython-2011/ (branch dtrace-issue13405_2.7 ) to test > http://bugs.python.org/issue13405#msg164610. >=20 > I've also recompiled the kernel to enable dtrace support by following > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/dtrace-enable.html , but > dtrace enters into an infinite loop when compiling, and using 100% of > CPU usage. >=20 > I'm using FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE-p3, and used: >=20 > ./configure --with-dtrace && make >=20 > And the issue occurs at: >=20 > gcc -pthread -fno-strict-aliasing -g -O2 -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O3 -Wall > -Wstrict-prototypes -I. -IInclude -I./Include -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o > Include/pydtrace_offsets Include/pydtrace_offsets.c > Include/pydtrace_offsets.sh OTHER Python/ceval.o > Include/pydtrace_offsets > Include/pydtrace_offsets.h > if test "dtrace" !=3D "" ; then dtrace -o Python/pydtrace.o > -DPYDTRACE_STACK_HELPER -I. -IInclude -I./Include -32 -C -G -s > Include/pydtrace.d Python/ceval.o Modules/gcmodule.o=20 > Objects/classobject.o Objects/typeobject.o; else touch > Python/pydtrace.o ; fi; >=20 > I've tried removing '-DPYDTRACE_STACK_HELPER' with same results. Does it make a difference if you remove the -O3 (and maybe -O2)? Fabian --Sig_/xV2pqKoNfJdf3borTiwjwQX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/0eHMACgkQBYqIVf93VJ1hkgCgq29f62zbDEilH3I1j/fu8T+p tC4An3koZSal5FU9NHlQ19XHHTLr/fJk =u1Cl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/xV2pqKoNfJdf3borTiwjwQX-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 17:25:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81CD6106571F for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 17:25:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chema@safetybits.net) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD6F08FC15 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 17:25:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcje9 with SMTP id je9so2458647bkc.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 10:25:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type :x-gm-message-state; bh=8SVl6R6yB1q1ux/onTYtbfLsHqhGqICVdHT5/S4QQZU=; b=mZ2vvPa1fPTacF2MyNmLkGEKVMr4j1h2yRlDhhz/t+A52UtNkSX10hFH6FbohR3atp KmXQzgJX2WA7IIo7dkwURK/B4PAi/GZGX0rZhGpXWn6wj45tTDDdRqh/VwhWCoVXDYDL Xl/hr+DTFzoz4XpddhL+FPnjBED0X7omYud/NjnWoeIYqXh3Dg4qRDvvQGDoHPdY6SL/ v+X4WRRglEctzmPUH5bEP0Us5XINqnj0ZjDK46+C6CZD/sJSiE47K1CXCoptuMkqXLmZ 2pH5CAtTV+w481y1pHTfWY6aJfvZ+d2o62XfVL1Dv3ChVVbk4gZL4RsM5nggUMMnO6o2 j5HA== Received: by 10.205.117.141 with SMTP id fm13mr3767344bkc.125.1341422711289; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 10:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.2] (235.Red-88-3-143.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net. [88.3.143.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 9sm19373847bku.9.2012.07.04.10.25.09 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jul 2012 10:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FF47C73.6070108@safetybits.net> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 19:25:07 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Chema_Garc=EDa?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120624 Icedove/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FF4307E.1030202@safetybits.net> <20120704190759.461015c1@fabiankeil.de> In-Reply-To: <20120704190759.461015c1@fabiankeil.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 OpenPGP: id=68183F86 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigCA02DDD63BF0A74229E5959A" X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn3ZxXxQgV7aEb4QQc5Wmh61rWiY00+vp0qi6NzIyUJ2+SSNJOe+RC3/SMr+wDHNr50hAmt X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: DTrace issue (infinite loop) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 17:25:13 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigCA02DDD63BF0A74229E5959A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No it doesn't, I get the same result without -O3 and with -O2 Un saludo, */Chema Garc=EDa/* /SafetyBits | @sch3m4 / On 04/07/12 19:07, Fabian Keil wrote: > Chema Garc=EDa wrote: > >> I've been trying to compile Python 2.7 with dtrace support from >> https://hg.jcea.es/cpython-2011/ (branch dtrace-issue13405_2.7 ) to te= st >> http://bugs.python.org/issue13405#msg164610. >> >> I've also recompiled the kernel to enable dtrace support by following >> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/dtrace-enable.html , but >> dtrace enters into an infinite loop when compiling, and using 100% of >> CPU usage. >> >> I'm using FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE-p3, and used: >> >> ./configure --with-dtrace && make >> >> And the issue occurs at: >> >> gcc -pthread -fno-strict-aliasing -g -O2 -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O3 -Wall= >> -Wstrict-prototypes -I. -IInclude -I./Include -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o >> Include/pydtrace_offsets Include/pydtrace_offsets.c >> Include/pydtrace_offsets.sh OTHER Python/ceval.o >> Include/pydtrace_offsets > Include/pydtrace_offsets.h >> if test "dtrace" !=3D "" ; then dtrace -o Python/pydtrace.o >> -DPYDTRACE_STACK_HELPER -I. -IInclude -I./Include -32 -C -G -s >> Include/pydtrace.d Python/ceval.o Modules/gcmodule.o=20 >> Objects/classobject.o Objects/typeobject.o; else touch >> Python/pydtrace.o ; fi; >> >> I've tried removing '-DPYDTRACE_STACK_HELPER' with same results. > Does it make a difference if you remove the -O3 (and maybe -O2)? > > Fabian --------------enigCA02DDD63BF0A74229E5959A Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJP9HxzAAoJEIhVozRoGD+GCtkP/2Bqd9ESRi7fZ3CtmEdUlc68 Kmz/to3tTDd4aBZLMcHBIZ3rHhvYViEXvv4FR9GmhJWTHTnD06aO6ebWus1a3wlv gDtXMEp5Mc3MUE7bVeg0Imh6aLeUZ530a6wj6pipGWXj9WxO7/Ii2yiq649o5oag voQREiZBT06mH9QTzP6PSCEmB/8j3m/SLWdmFRFsDksHBPqml1cl2babl+G/5Msr YF0m11p/8FXQVPEsZcPXRHWrl4wIyciusWTtf7ZNVD2o9TSlCB6mudR9bzXkyPu8 duc0f5ON8Zh8PURyIikQb5go+CHlQFdpg6hoknM4NQ7KxVxon+uuexRR8SsA5PYJ 7xNluOJAJidJRU8n2XAyqGh7zJzRGSKuiezMYoUcCtiZoy3dUqfQWeeSB0KGRwQr NXk3Ln9cOd8qGmI2UaxuU4jAJjpRwBlvJ5QqmYV8g4tP23YtNyHT1UVcNeOIe4hT 3GhPazJgH7ephAUz0nfnkj+usQ9U6yqSmCSc1+MbNDIXdIJLAcdY0NrwBsxFy+sX 4b6H7u2QU6nlij8Sh5qQP8mF5lr/rcIqsvlQS1/hl3iLuc12oFgSk/L2/CSsbhsx dw45QrLXwTHehHIkNrtUelV7ZWtckd+VYf3vvcXoEF7H9Zcuxl8sHSP1zI2bzw6R yXd7j50xnXJGYolJnEur =lNr+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigCA02DDD63BF0A74229E5959A-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 18:51:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 584931065672 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:51:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@dataix.net) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C1E8FC17 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:51:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnm2 with SMTP id m2so7905489ggn.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 11:51:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding :in-reply-to; bh=0Toe4k1uoeShD/JW9NkD4QVxqlXqZxN17UX8zFSryrE=; b=PIBFcCSnKy7pIG/+8HI4ocBa/mYqMyM9V+q79hkUrdj4Ivdcdcr93XRQkELl4RKuo8 TUcA/B+K1IjY+WkP+Ya/gKdpusnm2N3uNIfcMkQs6YuTXCP/AhQS524R2XFT34txWK29 9moQHRJ3ygYR8tlexraN0wPHS2ylFsQDHJ9wU= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding :in-reply-to:x-gm-message-state; bh=0Toe4k1uoeShD/JW9NkD4QVxqlXqZxN17UX8zFSryrE=; b=AqDgxwqDybeGuu62mQmVkyznO8Doi43kLQA95p5IGcGXXPIy3mt69LMIfk/kbK0FL7 648KOU7sNh30LyFKmtRkjrtEbIKtd5Gn2NzkQq3K3FaJkvg0INFxjc90eBWmIeS1z2gB PZsqJTPe0AmwVsNJy2uanPkkFoKMW7Fp8P8R6HksvvfnFkrNmA4tGUFF2yqN6tTWxTvP NHEDlOIWfsPMWvsU99bAIOT7cNA+sZfKQf1eMegXhIXuZnU20o1canw3fCo4wy2LYqIS nYI+JsAoq4+KTWVEYmlr8Bl9GR7/p22DcZQkn04220CtnI5XiUx0K+izpZdwo4LXTi1l T3MA== Received: by 10.42.140.4 with SMTP id i4mr5103318icu.18.1341427868890; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 11:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (adsl-108-195-138-67.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net. [108.195.138.67]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v17sm30973163igv.7.2012.07.04.11.51.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jul 2012 11:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q64Ip5sZ059550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 4 Jul 2012 14:51:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Received: (from jh@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q64Ip4ct059549; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 14:51:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 14:51:04 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal To: Freddie Cash Message-ID: <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlnG1ToKjdbq9SZaAz0Xyh/JrJj6XtZNxLg/9TaMiENfLo6PTFFiR4ispbgdNh4RIkWqSJn Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , Doug Barton , "Simon L. B. Nielsen" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 18:51:10 -0000 On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 10:01:04AM -0700, Freddie Cash wrote: > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Simon L. B. Nielsen wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > >> On 07/03/2012 05:39, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > >>> Doug Barton writes: > >>>> The correct solution to this problem is to remove BIND from the base > >>>> altogether, but I have no energy for all the whinging that would happen > >>>> if I tried (again) to do that. > >>> > >>> I don't think there will be as much whinging as you expect. Times have > >>> changed. > >>> > >>> I'm willing to import and maintain unbound (BSD-licensed validating, > >>> recursive, and caching DNS resolver) if you remove BIND. > >> > >> You've got a deal! > >> > >> Unbound requires ldns, which is a good thing. Part of this project would > > > > How's the security support for ldns / unbound? For third party > > software sitting in the 'frontline' that part is rather important. > > > >> also be to enable drill so that we have a command-line dns lookup tool > >> in the base, but that's trivial once you've got ldns imported. > > > > Does that means loosing host(1) ? That would be somewhat annoying. > > There's a version of host based on unbound. At least, there's an > unbound-host package for Debian Linux: > > http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=unbound-host > What would be really nice here is a command wrapper hooked into the shell so that when you type a command and it does not exist it presents you with a question for suggestions to install somewhat like Fedora has done. You type nmap in the root shell and it will ask you if you would like to install it. With that said, given this is FreeBSD, it could offer ... Would you like to install base package [y/N] ?: N Would you like to install ports package [y/N] ?: N Would you like to compile this from ports [y/N] ?: Y You have these options available: 1) BIND 2) LDNS 3) DJBDNS Which would you like [0-3]: I entirely dislike the idea of including something other than bind-tools within base that are installed, but fully support the idea of providing a way to allow the user to install a "base package" one that is meant to install into the base system and have as many as are seen suited to support the community. I currently buildworld WITHOUT_BIND and use bind from ports and cannot justify the time to go through learning/using another instance or at least at this time when BIND has been perfect for everything I needed to do. -- - (2^(N-1)) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 18:51:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 427B2106580D for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:51:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from apeiron@isuckatdomains.net) Received: from isuckatdomains.net (unknown [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:4::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 230C48FC17 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:51:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from isuckatdomains.isuckatdomains.net (isuckatdomains.net [74.207.243.179]) by isuckatdomains.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C95ED45C5F for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 14:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 14:51:32 -0400 From: Chris Nehren To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120704185132.GD6569@isuckatdomains.isuckatdomains.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VMt1DrMGOVs3KQwf" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 18:51:33 -0000 --VMt1DrMGOVs3KQwf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 17:51:52 +0100 , Simon L. B. Nielsen wrote: > On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > > also be to enable drill so that we have a command-line dns lookup tool > > in the base, but that's trivial once you've got ldns imported. >=20 > Does that means loosing host(1) ? That would be somewhat annoying. You seem to have missed another message Doug posted to this thread (message-id <4FF36174.2000806@FreeBSD.org>, dated Tue, 03 Jul 2012 14:17:40 -0700) wherein he wrote: > Whether we do the above or not, ldns/drill should be imported into the > base so that we have at least one command line DNS resolution tool. A > good "junior hacker" project would be to make a host(1) clone using > ldns. If users want the regular bind tools, ports/dns/bind-tools > already exists. I was curious and started poking at ldns to create such a tool. It shouldn't be difficult for anyone familiar with C and DNS who has the tuits to spare. --=20 Thanks and best regards, Chris Nehren --VMt1DrMGOVs3KQwf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJP9JCzAAoJEB3ywRGrHAnQ/pUP/iEsFvviKw21tv+sfONT5SAR p9A8eAuurW59f3091sDybwsNld8rV/R3zauhpdq/REQ3aNue3TUwz4pKyVaJZMB3 L3RJ3lysvIzjOjMgIUY0pb0qSPAEM3PRfiWGGfQH9DbeSQfQ43YF4Wj3DiMPGtDV PDi1fICUgvRW7Q9MOIlsuKM6+n2wmvofQ9DHvEEVBOIPVM5mZQ/gsnkj9HQ+qqyY MyoQ66yCUWgTXfjFgCGnQSg9hW9/+22PolyYVgH2W/h4IsxIVs+qcTx0lrFb1AJi B5VaIlzHhDmSu6V5WWhWmHZ/PZGCkGGLjU4B3/4IV7sAP3uW6FqbLBTxsQYLPyLX 2r0FLTWeu3XfHZTJBoQl3JB7TU3WmCgG61rXorKTZa5bR1SL5obOvwJPTFdwSjoS k7w/ISEf1Ukg7fVkn7yRQT6sLpzrGuj0HWRuKRJrSIgAF7w9JWJAdrnqLtYMHNkD KUCY+XFv1jlwPrersY7nxlsxdt480wVbbsRH0B7xuZUPPOtMIfA7Ar2Y348bMcge qL4GR+lGS4jFdiTwrTg9UiYdO+1c+CkTdt27IFsNlhJDWummfkmpE2ZnADSrNABr 1eahydWX5VfAU+6r8bftDN8JrIGM+n2ZI5Blh9wjAb/h1zBFTuOVXov8DtaWsjvQ NxixWj00MscAaVG2bXfY =IhSc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VMt1DrMGOVs3KQwf-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 21:15:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7597D1065676; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 21:15:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 846C61505F4; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 21:14:49 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF4B249.4010107@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 14:14:49 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120624 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Freddie Cash References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, "Simon L. B. Nielsen" , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 21:15:56 -0000 On 07/04/2012 10:01, Freddie Cash wrote: > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Simon L. B. Nielsen wrote: >> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Doug Barton wrote: >>> On 07/03/2012 05:39, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: >>>> Doug Barton writes: >>>>> The correct solution to this problem is to remove BIND from the base >>>>> altogether, but I have no energy for all the whinging that would happen >>>>> if I tried (again) to do that. >>>> >>>> I don't think there will be as much whinging as you expect. Times have >>>> changed. >>>> >>>> I'm willing to import and maintain unbound (BSD-licensed validating, >>>> recursive, and caching DNS resolver) if you remove BIND. >>> >>> You've got a deal! >>> >>> Unbound requires ldns, which is a good thing. Part of this project would >> >> How's the security support for ldns / unbound? For third party >> software sitting in the 'frontline' that part is rather important. Other than my followup where I expressed total confidence in the folks that produce these tools, I'll leave the advocacy to Dag-Erling. >>> also be to enable drill so that we have a command-line dns lookup tool >>> in the base, but that's trivial once you've got ldns imported. >> >> Does that means loosing host(1) ? Yes! Code must be free!!!!!11!!!! :) >> That would be somewhat annoying. Again, see my followup. > There's a version of host based on unbound. At least, there's an > unbound-host package for Debian Linux: Yes, it's a SMOP. If we produced a BSDL version I'm fairly sure the NLnet Labs guys would be interested. Dag-Erling probably wants to contact them first to see if they are already working on something similar. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 21:20:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E0FA10656AD; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 21:20:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1278415826E; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 21:19:39 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 14:19:38 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120624 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jason Hellenthal References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> In-Reply-To: <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 21:20:19 -0000 On 07/04/2012 11:51, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > What would be really nice here is a command wrapper hooked into the > shell so that when you type a command and it does not exist it presents > you with a question for suggestions to install somewhat like Fedora has > done. I would also like to see this feature, which is pretty much universal in linux at this point. It's very handy. I look forward to reviewing your patches to implement it. :) Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 18:46:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A13106566C for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:46:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yintothayang@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FD818FC0A for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:46:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vbmv11 with SMTP id v11so6201687vbm.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 11:46:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=NVrJGt+CfVguG/nzfIQjsRwKAPdyf+ByX3grKGsthoo=; b=gLweL4tm/WHjWStQRS8yyIlvtjuwECp+ONP+pw+jwjULJxeKz+2J6TSstCsV5jw8no 8QefQ4LLEiuSJA0gV1IUb1eQDjzUPuIqjFj0B/Lh+W3Vke02cNQI1uZ0PVe0n156lwH/ 0qS3gqTdEFctqniAdGwuzng+7FO60VaiNxq5U9YvqrCUYS//G9GL6hjCeibVdgqANCrE /XKsU+MxjQoRTeQgnHDH7d7BZCvoaC2TDI7zbljSjiSooNEMZsdWyTCuDv0qDnKTBaKq XvQ7tL7O6yNgOvFi49CMLgUg5jYrbT7nVIMZMtNdl4JqdygoGT2mZb4ldonlSucFg7AT rr6Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.115.81 with SMTP id h17mr10934462vcq.66.1341427572068; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 11:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.221.10.203 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 11:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 14:46:11 -0400 Message-ID: From: Dylan Castine To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 21:20:34 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: adding new cipher support to kernel X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 18:46:13 -0000 Hi, My name is Dylan, I want to add support for the AES-GCM cipher to the kernel. I am currently using strongswan for an IPsec build and need ESP to use the AES-GCM algorithm. Any info is appreciated, Thanks for your time, Dylan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 22:01:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51FF9106566C for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:01:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E98888FC0C for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:01:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so5126335qcs.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 15:01:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=QMa3ggxKAqbRIDg2OHv9aPy+7zs/Gcib0NUr1iXaMoA=; b=bZBvtIP7l+9v/ZzdC38A25LXlgJl82Vt1Abc5cRLDhkNf8SSHBodSs981DQ0p+Op5c 5wB3gmBqKe65fPjDuKGk4p/zmPlnH6yQZZdsTeGhSKyjKNA2JH6uwDqm2pdhaxmW+8vx 6Lbk2CvbLidY2kcoKpZv2NXNyOOUCvSIwSb1crPgcdkr3GBl6AKjym5icIW+mZPPvMwc lM/UkllWLmLUgkO5JoqaWn1j9demaf+/J4U3iTgwUQ7p1l6wRs1vNazRPYixvEQF9eAO hvMbQpPPL4hTF83sxRs437yFbzatsyKucinPIpKQmnV49eirjiW8IS8nKzqy+rOLNipg QqFg== Received: by 10.229.105.100 with SMTP id s36mr11989927qco.88.1341439301162; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 15:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bhuda.mired.org (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dy2sm16655641qab.11.2012.07.04.15.01.40 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jul 2012 15:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:01:34 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: Message-ID: <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnrt7iMvaC78g3/BQXbG/uChIbDIoE52vrcrJdG+JNppaRJ4VcD4kEkL5ed0EAJRuSN5gq9 Cc: Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 22:01:42 -0000 On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 14:19:38 -0700 Doug Barton wrote: > On 07/04/2012 11:51, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > > What would be really nice here is a command wrapper hooked into the > > shell so that when you type a command and it does not exist it presents > > you with a question for suggestions to install somewhat like Fedora has > > done. > I would also like to see this feature, which is pretty much universal in > linux at this point. It's very handy. I, on the other hand, count it as one of the many features of Linux that make me use FreeBSD. I long ago gave up trying to turn off such cruft in Linux. I hope that if it's added to FreeBSD, turning it off will at least be easy and obvious. http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 22:04:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1515D106566C; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:04:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2B61A6930; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:03:21 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF4BDA8.50303@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 15:03:20 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120624 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <201207042156.PAA09080@lariat.net> In-Reply-To: <201207042156.PAA09080@lariat.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= , Robert Simmons , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 22:04:25 -0000 On 07/04/2012 14:55, Brett Glass wrote: > At 06:39 AM 7/3/2012, Dag-Erling SmÞrgrav wrote: > >> I'm willing to import and maintain unbound (BSD-licensed validating, >> recursive, and caching DNS resolver) if you remove BIND. > > I've been using djb, and -- despite its quirks -- I'm very happy with > it. Completely aside from its "quirks," djbdns is wholly unsuitable in the modern DNS world due to it's poor and/or total lack of support for IDNs and DNSSEC. > I'd like to have the option of installing dnscache, with the > so-called "Jumbo" patch, as the default resolver. As soon as you start talking about "with/without $option" you are talking about a ports install, which is perfectly fine. Other than that, if whoever actually pushes all the rocks uphill to make the installer more modular in this regard decides to include djbdns, more power to them. :) Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 21:56:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1373106564A; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 21:56:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.62.230.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A44E8FC17; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 21:56:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from WildRover.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2] (may be forged)) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09080; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 15:56:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <201207042156.PAA09080@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 15:55:54 -0600 To: Dag-Erling SmÞrgrav , Doug Barton From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 22:09:19 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Robert Simmons , freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 21:56:17 -0000 At 06:39 AM 7/3/2012, Dag-Erling SmÞrgrav wrote: >I'm willing to import and maintain unbound (BSD-licensed validating, >recursive, and caching DNS resolver) if you remove BIND. I've been using djb, and -- despite its quirks -- I'm very happy with it. I'd like to have the option of installing dnscache, with the so-called "Jumbo" patch, as the default resolver. I beleive that the code has been released into the public domain. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 22:10:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36C081065688 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:10:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E61121A6DD5; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:08:45 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 15:08:45 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120624 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Meyer References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 22:10:14 -0000 On 07/04/2012 15:01, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 14:19:38 -0700 > Doug Barton wrote: >> On 07/04/2012 11:51, Jason Hellenthal wrote: >>> What would be really nice here is a command wrapper hooked into the >>> shell so that when you type a command and it does not exist it presents >>> you with a question for suggestions to install somewhat like Fedora has >>> done. >> I would also like to see this feature, which is pretty much universal in >> linux at this point. It's very handy. > > I, on the other hand, count it as one of the many features of Linux > that make me use FreeBSD. First, I agree that being able to turn it off should be possible. But I can't help being curious ... why would you *not* want a feature that tells you what to install if you type a command that doesn't exist on the system? Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 22:39:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AA911065672 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:39:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) Received: from qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.64]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 275558FC08 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:39:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.59]) by qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id WNbJ1j0011GXsucA7NfTNi; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 22:39:27 +0000 Received: from damnhippie.dyndns.org ([24.8.232.202]) by omta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id WNfS1j00R4NgCEG8UNfTiE; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 22:39:27 +0000 Received: from [172.22.42.240] (revolution.hippie.lan [172.22.42.240]) by damnhippie.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q64MdOmN006561; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 16:39:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) From: Ian Lepore To: Doug Barton In-Reply-To: <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 16:39:24 -0600 Message-ID: <1341441564.1097.50.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 22:39:33 -0000 On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 15:08 -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > On 07/04/2012 15:01, Mike Meyer wrote: > > On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 14:19:38 -0700 > > Doug Barton wrote: > >> On 07/04/2012 11:51, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > >>> What would be really nice here is a command wrapper hooked into the > >>> shell so that when you type a command and it does not exist it presents > >>> you with a question for suggestions to install somewhat like Fedora has > >>> done. > >> I would also like to see this feature, which is pretty much universal in > >> linux at this point. It's very handy. > > > > I, on the other hand, count it as one of the many features of Linux > > that make me use FreeBSD. > > First, I agree that being able to turn it off should be possible. But I > can't help being curious ... why would you *not* want a feature that > tells you what to install if you type a command that doesn't exist on > the system? > > Doug > The only response I can think of is... If you can even ask that question, then there's no answer I could give that would make any sense to you. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 22:55:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC0301065670 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:55:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@dataix.net) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01B6E8FC0A for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:55:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so15603208obb.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 15:55:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=ADlg80JKdooOkEYmHuNgwkyw4LxMZT3LbM1OOu/vWGM=; b=AdSow0yKffbg7L7sTdONcME2d5PSyNqLB7KerUW6bQZ4RdZma9iGniZjPP92ey0kmH LshqgpP5b67aXF0FSH5H6FrmNuiOmwTjf9kYr7FUY0Sf2e7uOO0FDWJMREKND2vOV5DG 1+Kc+vqUm6PDKlhg+SiTi4yIwF4WBs/ou3c3s= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-gm-message-state; bh=ADlg80JKdooOkEYmHuNgwkyw4LxMZT3LbM1OOu/vWGM=; b=DochM28SnMtKR8ZRBEBO/9BNDT6ZUW/kv3aBKAAjt+ma0hYyNucMHCtD5YuqEDFTfR SeP5FmxwwbaVfCngKasKk3a1bsUbwaiuCKnRVzKdWzbh2lAWzWQ/+AsexZVzXRXQLzNt nMbqKGXAC5SVdIaYvgNRKTavbF7zsj7CtYid66gJMgMI78NwGoXyUTAAlY8ln2lxYXEY pmaJ0K9s1tzZJEWDtmloHB7ShMC3EFDoSW1ExN8BAMglyY1oRUWyNyh92roD39qjOlKe /S6S6KiJq8zhqE4ZI22PeyWT+rT70KeLr1xZFp9bwx/04GKjzqGNedoezbOD33Kdn/ro g6kA== Received: by 10.50.41.195 with SMTP id h3mr14591378igl.34.1341442525225; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 15:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (adsl-108-195-138-67.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net. [108.195.138.67]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id pp4sm31891557igb.5.2012.07.04.15.55.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jul 2012 15:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q64MtJB1023858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:55:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Received: (from jh@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q64MtJ6e023857; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:55:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:55:19 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal To: Doug Barton Message-ID: <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlfQzehcPJ5RFT9TVgzWBrvv6Id/7fxiJSq0LG0zzH8KuCQJxkty90xMjfO+8etPklzjg3b Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 22:55:26 -0000 On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 03:08:45PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > On 07/04/2012 15:01, Mike Meyer wrote: > > On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 14:19:38 -0700 > > Doug Barton wrote: > >> On 07/04/2012 11:51, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > >>> What would be really nice here is a command wrapper hooked into the > >>> shell so that when you type a command and it does not exist it presents > >>> you with a question for suggestions to install somewhat like Fedora has > >>> done. > >> I would also like to see this feature, which is pretty much universal in > >> linux at this point. It's very handy. > > > > I, on the other hand, count it as one of the many features of Linux > > that make me use FreeBSD. > > First, I agree that being able to turn it off should be possible. But I > can't help being curious ... why would you *not* want a feature that > tells you what to install if you type a command that doesn't exist on > the system? > Seeing as sudo plays a big part of this on the user end part I could see why someone would want to turn it off. But on the other hand it would be easy enough ... sudo wise ... to designate a %installgroup of users that install suggestions would be available to. So this shouldn't be a problem for those that want to disable it or never use it. Without in-depth knowledge of how it works I could suggest that shell completion and checking return codes from interactive shell commands has a lot to do with it and passing "the right stuff" to sudo. Ill have to look deeper into Fedora when I get a chance at some point. -- - (2^(N-1)) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 22:57:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B219A1065670; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:57:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell0.rawbw.com (shell0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78C3B8FC19; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:57:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from eagle.yuri.org (stunnel@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by shell0.rawbw.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q64Mv9Rr064321; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 15:57:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Message-ID: <4FF4CA45.7070502@rawbw.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 15:57:09 -0700 From: Yuri User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120702 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 22:57:10 -0000 On 07/04/2012 15:08, Doug Barton wrote: > First, I agree that being able to turn it off should be possible. But I > can't help being curious ... why would you*not* want a feature that > tells you what to install if you type a command that doesn't exist on > the system? Given the potentially controversial nature of this feature, it's maybe best to almost completely isolate it from the base system and make it into a port. When this port is installed and when some special environment variable points to its executable, shells would call this executable when an unknown command is typed by the user. Such implementation should leave all parties happy. People who hate it just wouldn't install this port. Yuri From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 22:59:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCC331065673 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:59:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A3C5160D12; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:59:30 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 15:59:29 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120624 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jason Hellenthal References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> In-Reply-To: <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 22:59:30 -0000 On 07/04/2012 15:55, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > Seeing as sudo plays a big part of this No ... not only is sudo not a necessary component, it shouldn't be involved at all. The feature works on debian/ubuntu for regular userspace commands. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 23:01:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D36631065672 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 23:01:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 614E114E73C; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 23:01:40 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF4CB54.1060004@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 16:01:40 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120624 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yuri References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <4FF4CA45.7070502@rawbw.com> In-Reply-To: <4FF4CA45.7070502@rawbw.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: install-prompt for missing features (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 23:01:40 -0000 On 07/04/2012 15:57, Yuri wrote: > On 07/04/2012 15:08, Doug Barton wrote: >> First, I agree that being able to turn it off should be possible. But I >> can't help being curious ... why would you *not* want a feature that >> tells you what to install if you type a command that doesn't exist on >> the system? > > Given the potentially controversial nature of this feature, it's maybe > best to almost completely isolate it from the base system and make it > into a port. Normally I would agree, but something like this would be *really* valuable to ease the transition for people coming from a Linux background. -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 23:10:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC4DB106564A for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 23:10:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-qa0-f47.google.com (mail-qa0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68F3F8FC12 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 23:10:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qabg1 with SMTP id g1so3627420qab.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 16:10:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=e4UkIm2EtiM3o89dx1OaD4xoRjv5wZjvJbhvo8mF37w=; b=V3B7kntLxqUDPwbNXXW5BRu7eXTHgZiAorklCT6tBOXeHjCSUBWBNNz3/2HDX4c1Vl ZXz80Ge3mH51g3YnNK26dntbGs7bFA7D73JhdL0zQVQ+k+aq+iqCO99eTNR/bYdVIlLB gJ46NT+w5+dR3PWGFymH4vSQU+jw7hBkiJVh/9a43cVwumNYiOciW5qGX0rTZJGdkg/Y /8kByC6O1fy5DeqE4OeTn2/TkbqCJsLSwYOyL9B/4hXvZgGAsIxYPd2ajvQV/fMY1Yri SCJuYL1oM8sRuLsIlVl2AWTwVUECxDVLvL2LWcaW/JTjrX+Of/s8fOcFf48OIsmT4Vvb prNQ== Received: by 10.224.198.5 with SMTP id em5mr36505007qab.30.1341443413348; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 16:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bhuda.mired.org (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gb7sm43890360qab.12.2012.07.04.16.10.12 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jul 2012 16:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 19:10:08 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120704191008.0aa46225@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <4FF4CB54.1060004@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <4FF4CA45.7070502@rawbw.com> <4FF4CB54.1060004@FreeBSD.org> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAG1BMVEXguIzRkGnhyaz069mXhW0WHRnbrnR9WCQ6LB0CchNMAAACSUlEQVQ4jV2TQW7jMAxFGaPQOgQEdZaGMsgBrAvUA03dCxj1Uu4U2gfwQD7AGNax51NK07RcxXz6/CSl0Ij450vkPG1jzpIZM1UwDCl/xB14TWnNX8A00Qj5a0mnVFVbVUz4MeErea2HikSRqZzY894zwg9p2+/AtO8LzxFED+tNAUFeU29iFOLRxlZAcdo9A8wi8ZBMV4BKPde82Oxrvs6BTkulQIClte0DLFzzsKk9j1MBex8iUaP00Bd78S/muyFScrTXz6zLkEUxJp+SabQfNOs4f4Jpx5qSZ/304PWwlEWP1cOn/mJQR7EOD+uKhjcBLziuL7xoY5Xm+VFAUSw/LwwwsHEHxihpwV4EJH0xXRkbw1PkRw+X4pEuSJwBggqk+HEYKkiL5/74/nQkogigzQsAFrakxZyfw3wMIEEZPv4AWMfxwqE5GNxGaERjmH+PG8AE0L4/w9g0lsp1raLYAN5azQa+AOoO9NwcpFkTrG2VKNMNEL5UKUUAw34tha0z7onUG0oBoNtczE04GwFE3wCHc0ChezAJ6A1WMV81AtY7wDAJSlXwV+4cwBvsOsrQMRawfQEBz0deEZ7WNpV2szckIKo5VpDHDSDvF1GItwqqAlG01Hh50BGtVhuUkjkasg/14bYFGCgWg1fSWHvmOoJck2xdp9ZvZBHzDVTzX23TkrOn7qe5U2COEw5D4Vx3qEQpFY2Z/3QFnJxzp7YCmSMG19nOUoe869zZfOQb5ywQuWu0yCn5+8gxZz+BE7vG3j4/wbf4D/sXN9Wug1s7AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnuPZc62iYOVq2AWdSV5CZQXrtnsw12dcy0hnGMG3Jsf62a/+TPjv5i3Vcz22ZKA2FP2rq7 Subject: Re: install-prompt for missing features (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 23:10:20 -0000 On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 16:01:40 -0700 Doug Barton wrote: > On 07/04/2012 15:57, Yuri wrote: > > On 07/04/2012 15:08, Doug Barton wrote: > >> First, I agree that being able to turn it off should be possible. But I > >> can't help being curious ... why would you *not* want a feature that > >> tells you what to install if you type a command that doesn't exist on > >> the system? > > Given the potentially controversial nature of this feature, it's maybe > > best to almost completely isolate it from the base system and make it > > into a port. My first thought was to suggest it be a port as well, but I'm not sure that can be done sanely. > Normally I would agree, but something like this would be *really* > valuable to ease the transition for people coming from a Linux background. So would installing all the GNU tools instead of our own. To me, that's clearly a bad idea (yes, it's an ideological issue, but the issue is UI design, *not* licenses). For this kind of thing, I think a "linux tools" metaport (and group/option in the installer) would be a better approach. Linux users could then install one port, and possibly source a script in /usr/local/etc in their .bashrc, and get a system/shell that acts as much like some popular linux distro as the maintainers heart desired. Nuts, it may even be easy to config it for different distros. http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 23:30:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0683A106566B for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 23:30:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from colin.barnabas@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF0D68FC0A for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 23:30:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so12740436pbb.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 16:30:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:user-agent; bh=SosUdCZf+4yFAN1gkM/pCRA23p3ltze2XlncwNxbQ3Q=; b=MX7ArSxN6ZgkpL4MD4V+G6oIiahamiRg/xxZwEfkH64vhQJV+XFgJoEomzaWuXR5JD Ejq5WFyKLGIuHN6J3pScPz9DIVdiRn6rOtnZeNjqTzjh6t+Q6rgnwEAgjtR/q2+UGVLy pXrPLOY9qORNiHVX3dTWQDzoj2mYHejk67y/clwXoivx9RyN7n5rhLv2gd3q8rqaHhli AopLsbox+544KHDDuWz8v2Eyt/z8ZCGZbMhbiIh0LBX4ANU9h8g4ks6nlPOLR1iJpL+N wWuVYzvxxsevzxAQjkT/gEnmDlhEJlKJnx4dQCbBo/ezFZ2OZiYFaOTGXZjXx7SCXCmH zzoA== Received: by 10.68.222.163 with SMTP id qn3mr22948075pbc.135.1341444648720; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 16:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ip68-98-76-182.ph.ph.cox.net. [68.98.76.182]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ms1sm18504062pbb.63.2012.07.04.16.30.47 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jul 2012 16:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 16:32:02 -0700 From: Colin Barnabas To: FreeBSD Hackers Message-ID: <20120704233202.GA9910@hs1.VERBENA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Subject: GAS AT&T linkage issue X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 23:30:50 -0000 I've been dabbling in assembly and decided to try AT&T syntax and the GAS assembler. I'm trying to get a cpuid test program running. It assembles fine if I give the command: as -o cpuid.o cpuid.s But starts complaining when I try to link it with: ld -o cpuid cpuid.o Which produces these errors: cpuid.o: In function `_start': (.text+0x10): undefined reference to `ebx' cpuid.o: In function `_start': (.text+0x18): undefined reference to `edx' cpuid.o: In function `_start': (.text+0x20): undefined reference to `ecx' Im running FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE amd64 and here is the text I am using: #cpuid.s Sample program to extract the processor Vendor ID .section .data output: .ascii "The processor Vendor ID is 'xxxxxxxxxxxx'\n" .section .text .globl _start _start: movl $0, %eax cpuid movl $output, %edi movl $ebx, 28(%edi) movl $edx, 32(%edi) movl $ecx, 36(%edi) movl $4, %eax movl $1, %ebx movl $output, %ecx movl $42, %edx int $0x80 movl $1, %eax movl $0, %ebx int $0x80 Any advice would be appreciated. -- Colin Barnabas From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 23:41:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC1F106566B for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 23:41:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@dataix.net) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E6668FC0C for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 23:41:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so8109628yen.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 16:41:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=05FNb4VGb3vNaWp7ROmbhIZi1l3PS2nZPGAqmkUPqPY=; b=GhWKwGZ2XnqEJMyRpLw/W6l8PaAzzP0G6Phco6HxQ7muMS+p3ERYQ+0KPa0s/uX4np 8sinJZAhChSVy2aIjqqnh24nBqKCwz2OUSzEldnW55iJ0VYgJxgPKIvSerR1+ukyGyQl 8MHz2SgUpjWzdaDNuz7BQBmVjz5D8YBjftQSY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-gm-message-state; bh=05FNb4VGb3vNaWp7ROmbhIZi1l3PS2nZPGAqmkUPqPY=; b=MMNwpIzwNaz6ljhjyO0b8H/gsGlwlbMX5eyVK+A6V3O8te04NWZc2MSrQ0lXEg6FvU Df4NFBLZFk7BR7TDNxWneGuasbO9S8zVFpPFlgv/cQedWUw2rslnVea+nx0fg1uDY4Fw 010AFPreG0JJyECIG4uwrlIhm7WX2Jf6MpLKxqhC+1bpYMoaMVsZNZWU1ADoHI7FDjqH W7XFUyQvlbZ2MXP6dNHz0ZEaKfAkPI0XXFINJY/DDH8uS/gjjXHUEpujb3UI11G+GUh2 cLgYIA/P3S3BTHTZrvaGJiUt6E/mqqtyikNzUot6cAhCACOlC/MgbgVesSkFRgGWI8C6 fjEQ== Received: by 10.50.156.228 with SMTP id wh4mr12842509igb.47.1341445268344; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 16:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (adsl-108-195-138-67.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net. [108.195.138.67]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dc7sm14994278igc.13.2012.07.04.16.41.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jul 2012 16:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q64Nf40q012854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 4 Jul 2012 19:41:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Received: (from jh@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q64Nf4BG012782; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 19:41:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 19:41:04 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal To: Doug Barton Message-ID: <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmu59LUHdYdY8km/rWyi02rQknwZVjj8wC8cbKy9OtzciEgbcAaALTugKcBJZe8Q6hIhtFp Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 23:41:09 -0000 On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 03:59:29PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > On 07/04/2012 15:55, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > > Seeing as sudo plays a big part of this > > No ... not only is sudo not a necessary component, it shouldn't be > involved at all. The feature works on debian/ubuntu for regular > userspace commands. > What are they using to authenticate for the install ? do you know ? -- - (2^(N-1)) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 4 23:44:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34C0E106566B for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 23:44:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A238A14DAC1; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 23:44:48 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF4D570.7020002@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 16:44:48 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120624 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jason Hellenthal References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> In-Reply-To: <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: install-prompt for missing features (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 23:44:49 -0000 On 07/04/2012 16:41, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 03:59:29PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: >> On 07/04/2012 15:55, Jason Hellenthal wrote: >>> Seeing as sudo plays a big part of this >> >> No ... not only is sudo not a necessary component, it shouldn't be >> involved at all. The feature works on debian/ubuntu for regular >> userspace commands. >> > > What are they using to authenticate for the install ? do you know ? Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant. Certainly you'd need proper permissions for installing something. What I meant was that the concept of prompting for uninstalled stuff does not, and should not require sudo to be involved in any way. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 00:30:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEB9A106564A; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 00:30:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim@kientzle.com) Received: from monday.kientzle.com (99-115-135-74.uvs.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [99.115.135.74]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68A868FC14; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 00:30:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from root@localhost) by monday.kientzle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) id q650UP8i095042; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 00:30:25 GMT (envelope-from tim@kientzle.com) Received: from [192.168.2.143] (CiscoE3000 [192.168.1.65]) by kientzle.com with SMTP id xz9kt6fwt2kf7h9j2ck6mf2hu6; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 00:30:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim@kientzle.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Tim Kientzle In-Reply-To: <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 17:30:23 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> To: Jason Hellenthal X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Doug Barton , Mike Meyer Subject: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 00:30:27 -0000 On Jul 4, 2012, at 4:41 PM, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 03:59:29PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: >> On 07/04/2012 15:55, Jason Hellenthal wrote: >>> Seeing as sudo plays a big part of this >> >> No ... not only is sudo not a necessary component, it shouldn't be >> involved at all. The feature works on debian/ubuntu for regular >> userspace commands. >> > > What are they using to authenticate for the install ? do you know ? Huh? What install? Who's talking about install? The version of this I've seen looks like this: $ svn co https://some.url/ svn: Command not found. To use this command, install one of the following packages: devel/subversion devel/subversion-freebsd devel/subversion16 That's all it does: It just prints out a more informative error message. It does not install anything, it requires no special permissions, and does not (as far as I can see) introduce any security or performance problems. The implementation is pretty simple: * A tool for building a database that maps command names to package names. (This would run against a ports tree or package repository. Conceptually, it's pretty similar to how port/package indexes get built today.) * Some way to distribute that database (Probably as part of ISO releases, maybe extend 'portsnap' or 'pkg_add' to update it?) * A program to look up command names in that database and print out the results. * A shell hook to run said program whenever a "command not found" error occurs. As a first prototype, the database could just be a text file and the look up program could be a shell script that uses grep and sed. Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 00:34:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1160B1065670 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 00:34:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FDCF1528D6; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 00:34:13 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 17:34:13 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120624 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Kientzle References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> In-Reply-To: <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 00:34:14 -0000 On 07/04/2012 17:30, Tim Kientzle wrote: > On Jul 4, 2012, at 4:41 PM, Jason Hellenthal wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 03:59:29PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: >>> On 07/04/2012 15:55, Jason Hellenthal wrote: >>>> Seeing as sudo plays a big part of this >>> >>> No ... not only is sudo not a necessary component, it shouldn't be >>> involved at all. The feature works on debian/ubuntu for regular >>> userspace commands. >>> >> >> What are they using to authenticate for the install ? do you know ? > > Huh? What install? Who's talking about install? > > The version of this I've seen looks like this: > > $ svn co https://some.url/ > svn: Command not found. > To use this command, install one of the following packages: > devel/subversion > devel/subversion-freebsd > devel/subversion16 > > That's all it does: It just prints out a more informative error message. > It does not install anything, it requires no special permissions, > and does not (as far as I can see) introduce any security or > performance problems. > > The implementation is pretty simple: > * A tool for building a database that maps command names > to package names. (This would run against a ports tree or > package repository. Conceptually, it's pretty similar to > how port/package indexes get built today.) > * Some way to distribute that database (Probably as part of ISO > releases, maybe extend 'portsnap' or 'pkg_add' to update it?) > * A program to look up command names in that database > and print out the results. > * A shell hook to run said program whenever a "command not found" > error occurs. > > As a first prototype, the database could just be a text file > and the look up program could be a shell script that uses > grep and sed. Right-O. The db should almost certainly be updated and distributed as part of the (already automated) INDEX generation and distribution process. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 00:37:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7C6106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 00:37:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-qa0-f47.google.com (mail-qa0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BD9D8FC0C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 00:37:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qabg1 with SMTP id g1so3649051qab.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 17:37:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=7sqcMsVbIrvlz7thfR7O1zih1mhrLmr35xi6vPJZMXs=; b=D/m/mgQR94sKR9pjbO5S/mfSKIWvLP6UHK1u+1fOtPVt/ZerLiuIjf/oSPFu/Ws42D ANGGX5DTOv5yU5OP4GsWmWV6TymeQJceaJm9DCBuDqUFobqrw54vwpo/wvtkhWvji3Nu qf+VANxvhzXgmPohu2qPh2AwOIavQBKAmkKGRJ6beQnQurzY+YkC2humCdqPr0Co64z3 ZDDJeCin46LT6oKtTI3p0M40n6CWrZzppSDGQG76wAKrLsWD0Jr/QzZQ7IhZLnNDB/q5 Rh+EGlQ4I2qdjCxxRnT6wmfn5QqCVWgxO7g1l040CIITSOkiOC9D4gkFZ98jp6ig0LtX sWBw== Received: by 10.224.77.19 with SMTP id e19mr41717228qak.49.1341448638200; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 17:37:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bhuda.mired.org (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ds8sm35733421qab.18.2012.07.04.17.37.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jul 2012 17:37:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 20:37:11 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: Message-ID: <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmqGk2rpQUBEJ+JfcWHH/EDgD58Fnf1q+m9fNh5pAQ+cWVRSIELQOP2K0iX5ZAIbymRvPHz Cc: Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 00:37:19 -0000 On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 17:34:13 -0700 Doug Barton wrote: > > As a first prototype, the database could just be a text file > > and the look up program could be a shell script that uses > > grep and sed. > Right-O. The db should almost certainly be updated and distributed as > part of the (already automated) INDEX generation and distribution process. There are already tools in the ports tree that do the search. Personally, I use portsearch. Tweaking them to use INDEX (or tweaking the makefile to generate their database with INDEX) should be straightforward. http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 01:03:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E1F2106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 01:03:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim@kientzle.com) Received: from monday.kientzle.com (99-115-135-74.uvs.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [99.115.135.74]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5788B8FC0A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 01:03:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from root@localhost) by monday.kientzle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) id q65135ek095210; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 01:03:05 GMT (envelope-from tim@kientzle.com) Received: from [192.168.2.143] (CiscoE3000 [192.168.1.65]) by kientzle.com with SMTP id 74mz966bvquqhvh2bcydrhwkdn; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 01:03:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim@kientzle.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Tim Kientzle In-Reply-To: <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:03:05 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> To: Mike Meyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 01:03:06 -0000 On Jul 4, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 17:34:13 -0700 > Doug Barton wrote: >>> As a first prototype, the database could just be a text file >>> and the look up program could be a shell script that uses >>> grep and sed. >> Right-O. The db should almost certainly be updated and distributed as >> part of the (already automated) INDEX generation and distribution process. > > There are already tools in the ports tree that do the > search. Personally, I use portsearch. Very close. Unfortunately, portsearch seems to require an installed /usr/ports tree. A system that generated a database and searched that database would be useful also by people who preferred packages over ports. > Tweaking them to use INDEX (or > tweaking the makefile to generate their database with INDEX) should be > straightforward. INDEX can't be used in its current form because it doesn't have filenames (just port names). But yes, a lot of the key pieces already exist in various places. Just need someone to piece it together and make it actually work. I still think this would be a good addition to the base system and would like to see it included in the standard release ISOs so that new FreeBSD users can more quickly find the software they expect. I'm curious whether the earlier objections were due to misunderstandings about auto-install. Auto-install would be problematic, but the feature being discussed here does not require installation. Just better error messages. Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 01:11:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E6FA1065675 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 01:11:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vps.rulingia.com (host-122-100-2-194.octopus.com.au [122.100.2.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944908FC0C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 01:11:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server.rulingia.com (c220-239-248-69.belrs5.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.248.69]) by vps.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q651BFAv031208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:11:16 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q651BAXk029288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:11:10 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q651BAPr029287; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:11:10 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:11:10 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Mike Meyer Message-ID: <20120705011110.GA27618@server.rulingia.com> References: <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <4FF4CA45.7070502@rawbw.com> <4FF4CB54.1060004@FreeBSD.org> <20120704191008.0aa46225@bhuda.mired.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="SUOF0GtieIMvvwua" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120704191008.0aa46225@bhuda.mired.org> X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: install-prompt for missing features (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 01:11:19 -0000 --SUOF0GtieIMvvwua Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2012-Jul-04 19:10:08 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote: >My first thought was to suggest it be a port as well, but I'm not sure >that can be done sanely. The easiest way is probably to implement some form of generic "command not found" hook into sh(1) and tcsh(1) - in interactive mode, if a specific function exists, execute it rather than reporting an error message . The actual functionality to map a command name to a port and suggest it to the user could nten be implemented separately as a port and the user would enable it by adding the appropriate function definition to their .profile/.login/.[t]cshrc files. Note that I'm not currently interested in this functionality and am not volunteering to implement it. --=20 Peter Jeremy --SUOF0GtieIMvvwua Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/06a4ACgkQ/opHv/APuIdfKgCfSrDHoOGa7sxQQjScRHMscwxU vK8AoIjrCDubpgDUunolPEBvjYYUFgpw =+pZr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --SUOF0GtieIMvvwua-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 01:42:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 858A4106566B for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 01:42:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2302C8FC0A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 01:42:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so5187455qcs.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 18:42:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=TXf5BlUKJuZ7UACHnhT5pPnsIPCvhbGSf6cEiLmeG0o=; b=dR1Lrq+gr2Vh4RLCDCAnlvC2LkdrxSmRFkdS8kpm1E3c7yhl+X7Z/t7fWr5IAkhYZV IWM2paOzHJDcxUdJDKw1fV9W5K0QW0Pf7OU4M8BScQMGnn2uAumOD2VKcU9t8X+y363B Zxzsga0DT1NW3zQ8SRI9mgw5v1vJNo1hJls6PPSGCmi+9nZVesFDXOrzkEJDd/vULhXX B88ASyz3rXRi/z14/wT3gGdxj9EdGuPCeZBibU3YSxwsFjUmwAxUChd87RzZuCVMJ+nb sdJvh7W1pes3sm1mSZ056BzLvinrz4x42LqD+b8wPxWXsBR9f9fkqs06gPQt3HvgC0ZQ 6h6Q== Received: by 10.224.205.195 with SMTP id fr3mr4827401qab.68.1341452542261; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 18:42:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bhuda.mired.org (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dy2sm17306800qab.11.2012.07.04.18.42.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jul 2012 18:42:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 21:42:16 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: Message-ID: <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlzKUMJYUEBRfixmXXdUfvQyk2JT+sRAYstibVDZjdNxFJjXI0YiTqynCY+/2sFMcHC6tLZ Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 01:42:23 -0000 On Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:03:05 -0700 Tim Kientzle wrote: > I'm curious whether the earlier objections were due to > misunderstandings about auto-install. Auto-install would > be problematic, but the feature being discussed here does not > require installation. Just better error messages. My objection was not due to misunderstanding about auto-install. I find the feature annoying - spewing a bunch of crap at me because of a typo. It annoys me far more often than it actually helps me, because more often than not the "missing command" is a typo, *not* an attempt to run a command I don't have. I.e., if I type mmap instead of nmap, I get: mwm@IPGhosterCrawlerI:~$ mmap No command 'mmap' found, did you mean: Command 'jmap' from package 'openjdk-6-jdk' (main) Command 'jmap' from package 'openjdk-7-jdk' (universe) Command 'gmap' from package 'gmap' (multiverse) Command 'gmap' from package 'scotch' (universe) Command 'tmap' from package 'emboss' (universe) Command 'smap' from package 'slurm-llnl' (universe) Command 'pmap' from package 'procps' (main) Command 'moap' from package 'moap' (universe) Command 'umap' from package 'libunicode-map8-perl' (main) Command 'map' from package 'sgt-puzzles' (universe) Command 'amap' from package 'amap-align' (universe) mmap: command not found That said, this seems to require modification to the ports system to generate a database for it. And having a command in the base system that I can feed a command (or better yet, file - I need libraries almost as often as I need commands) name to and it tells me what package/port to install would be useful. Again, I hope a FreeBSD implementation would be a bit more constrained, and *not* list "similar" commands. bash and zsh already have command_not_found handlers. I don't really object to that functionality to sh and tcsh. Just *don't turn it on by default*. I don't think I'd even object to setting those handlers in /usr/share/skel. Of course, I might turn around and ask that we add support for command correction ala zsh to sh & tcsh via those hooks if they get added. http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 02:02:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E191D106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 02:02:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim@kientzle.com) Received: from monday.kientzle.com (99-115-135-74.uvs.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [99.115.135.74]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B79A58FC14 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 02:02:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from root@localhost) by monday.kientzle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) id q6522CRJ095646; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 02:02:12 GMT (envelope-from tim@kientzle.com) Received: from [192.168.2.143] (CiscoE3000 [192.168.1.65]) by kientzle.com with SMTP id kyb2py8nw4pnuybus8dpsss7qs; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 02:02:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim@kientzle.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Tim Kientzle In-Reply-To: <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 19:02:11 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8BD384B7-BAE3-46ED-9AFD-50319130767E@kientzle.com> References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> To: Mike Meyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 02:02:17 -0000 On Jul 4, 2012, at 6:42 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:03:05 -0700 > Tim Kientzle wrote: >> I'm curious whether the earlier objections were due to >> misunderstandings about auto-install. Auto-install would >> be problematic, but the feature being discussed here does not >> require installation. Just better error messages. > > My objection was not due to misunderstanding about auto-install. I > find the feature annoying - spewing a bunch of crap at me because of a > typo. It annoys me far more often than it actually helps me, because > more often than not the "missing command" is a typo, *not* an attempt > to run a command I don't have. I.e., if I type mmap instead of nmap, I > get: > > mwm@IPGhosterCrawlerI:~$ mmap > No command 'mmap' found, did you mean: > Command 'jmap' from package 'openjdk-6-jdk' (main) > Command 'jmap' from package 'openjdk-7-jdk' (universe) > Command 'gmap' from package 'gmap' (multiverse) > Command 'gmap' from package 'scotch' (universe) > Command 'tmap' from package 'emboss' (universe) > Command 'smap' from package 'slurm-llnl' (universe) > Command 'pmap' from package 'procps' (main) > Command 'moap' from package 'moap' (universe) > Command 'umap' from package 'libunicode-map8-perl' (main) > Command 'map' from package 'sgt-puzzles' (universe) > Command 'amap' from package 'amap-align' (universe) > mmap: command not found I agree this is excessive. In this case, a better UI might be to separate the typo handling from the package reference, so that you would see something like this: $ mmap mmap: command not found Perhaps you meant one of: jmap, gmap, tmap, smap, (8 others) That way, if you did really mean jmap, you could try again and see $ jmap jmap: command not found Try installing one of the following packages: java/openjdk-6-jdk java/openjdk-7-jdk I agree also about the convenience of having a tool that can identify the port/package that would install a particular library (or other file). I too have run into the situation where I need a particular library and can't figure out what the package is called. > bash and zsh already have command_not_found handlers. I don't really > object to that functionality to sh and tcsh. Just *don't turn it on by > default*. I don't think I'd even object to setting those handlers in > /usr/share/skel. How about if it's on by default (in the default /etc/cshrc) but very easy to turn off? The primary point of such a feature is to help people new to FreeBSD. Someone who sits down at a new FreeBSD installation and wants to run 'nmap' can then get up to speed a lot more quickly, since they'll be pointed at the right package right away. > Of course, I might turn around and ask that we add support for command > correction ala zsh to sh & tcsh via those hooks if they get added. > Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 02:17:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97CFF106566B for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 02:17:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-qa0-f47.google.com (mail-qa0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3295B8FC0A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 02:17:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qabg1 with SMTP id g1so3674841qab.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 19:17:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=tHgVG1q8xcax41J2Tx4/YG6wZ7ufGJXY+iS9BQwmmIU=; b=Uz5eR8bwUWnAse+G2E8rEYH87rq/XApXNyRawfeXus7/nmHQ6rvP+oSjreMwHrfQvG I7uVeG1MlCMtyRQtpE+f5GkeqfQryirGDGm6GJRU3NYIHmWBTuNYL0EvX23RXb1GcCoJ xvcOClfADCT/M45tWADBBwRTVXUEYe9ilKrIcyStaZabMob8aOfTnII93U7EU9/yZoGb ta9pc8evC8mkkCy9PJFyEDzPpgo1LGdxRo5C1/IzxQBI92bN+MLnYe3DsWMjOUoq/34c d/wGAjGpmoV9gQj05UxPDrD/8n8Fb2tJ/a8e1bzTON50Hh+19Zr8SuFLeq+4vX8WA3Fu vBsA== Received: by 10.229.135.81 with SMTP id m17mr12500506qct.26.1341454676346; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 19:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bhuda.mired.org (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ds8sm36041607qab.18.2012.07.04.19.17.55 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jul 2012 19:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:17:49 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: Message-ID: <20120704221749.6a300733@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <8BD384B7-BAE3-46ED-9AFD-50319130767E@kientzle.com> References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> <8BD384B7-BAE3-46ED-9AFD-50319130767E@kientzle.com> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlvH7UYrk3JY2uTGa3/kDd0MpNXqOfAjh33VbG8KMXC118DgQGfaoHd/ZTW7Donq6M94KsZ Cc: Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 02:17:57 -0000 On Wed, 4 Jul 2012 19:02:11 -0700 Tim Kientzle wrote: > On Jul 4, 2012, at 6:42 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > > bash and zsh already have command_not_found handlers. I don't really > > object to that functionality to sh and tcsh. Just *don't turn it on by > > default*. I don't think I'd even object to setting those handlers in > > /usr/share/skel. > > How about if it's on by default (in the default /etc/cshrc) > but very easy to turn off? Actually, that's my biggest gripe about Linux systems. They set things in /etc/* shell profiles that *can't* be turned off in user rc files, because the ones in /etc run last. (And usually more than once. Idiots.) If you don't have root, the best way to deal with them is to install a shell that won't run things in /etc. If you have root and turn them off in /etc, you turn them off for everyone, which may well piss someone off. Which makes me think that setting user preferences via things in /etc instead of /usr/share/skel is a dangerous path to start down. That means users can *always* fix it, and it will also work for shells that the Linux way won't work for. Is there something wrong with using /usr/share/skel? Doesn't it get used when the install scripts create users? How appropriate. There are explosives going off outside my window. http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 04:07:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ED171065670 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 04:07:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@dataix.net) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF5428FC08 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 04:07:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so16010280obb.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 21:07:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=wY7h9cmvC3AwXotARXcI+/eAMnBdDtsx9DkC5zvMYzw=; b=Ff//0E83PMbm6+cmo92eMa5IMMhphFLU90/xoyKfiDicj/jff4H2WB1hUa0bqS23f3 yrfJXlNRlfPypyPIu6R9LXxgzHJpe59SnrXV903Zr8+6CEGcd8Hb+WzKcumREU1eh9Ze QHwGqELnvmotqnoiFeQA8aOxpdnLEYLAodJ+4= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-gm-message-state; bh=wY7h9cmvC3AwXotARXcI+/eAMnBdDtsx9DkC5zvMYzw=; b=X2Sdct1SL7vVKPvqNfLLrdmlXpN01Vgwm6UiuRukN7NRVshvHqD+P8WLkgeQO1LQO3 TGgFyAI4290xn5wtf3NQkhEjdYNhvJCk8EUS4evSuVSAGqHsqfGJ9QaEocPJ+IchpTiU Bw15C+/BwgYI/HHxJOCHlZLXv0zdwKE0xBrhgIxfDYarmgcla+DgLpjdCggPkodBrMs1 qaz5dU+CU1TavBEt6NCJCBclxhlR+V/2J3EoN+J6lPUePO62jWZsQv+lzokfjToPL6Wp mfE0xu/32lqWs7iPEginLFw1GUWNG5dn2xfliTAfZMHzcLHKLQrIL392FzGor/NCdsLL XHlA== Received: by 10.50.237.1 with SMTP id uy1mr13180648igc.18.1341461232281; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 21:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (adsl-108-73-115-46.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net. [108.73.115.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z3sm15450138igc.7.2012.07.04.21.07.11 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jul 2012 21:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q654799m070835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Jul 2012 00:07:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Received: (from jh@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q65478Ml070834; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 00:07:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 00:07:08 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal To: Doug Barton Message-ID: <20120705040708.GB392@DataIX.net> References: <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <4FF4D570.7020002@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FF4D570.7020002@FreeBSD.org> X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlaVCE60sbJ+xYjRkjipb4GHXWC7QtejLOA29h6tIYyH3A9I3qsH3Ex+yF/lvV2RgPmLf1u Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: install-prompt for missing features (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 04:07:13 -0000 On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 04:44:48PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > On 07/04/2012 16:41, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 03:59:29PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > >> On 07/04/2012 15:55, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > >>> Seeing as sudo plays a big part of this > >> > >> No ... not only is sudo not a necessary component, it shouldn't be > >> involved at all. The feature works on debian/ubuntu for regular > >> userspace commands. > >> > > > > What are they using to authenticate for the install ? do you know ? > > Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant. Certainly you'd need proper > permissions for installing something. > > What I meant was that the concept of prompting for uninstalled stuff > does not, and should not require sudo to be involved in any way. > Agreed. I didn't make that quite clear. Most of which I noticed from my very limited use of Fedora in the past since the only thing that was being installed was already built packages is the use of sudo to elevate privelages thats just why I refered to it in that manner. -- - (2^(N-1)) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 04:12:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 415B8106566B; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 04:12:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C451623EE; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 04:10:53 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF513CD.4090308@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 21:10:53 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120624 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <201207042156.PAA09080@lariat.net> <4FF4BDA8.50303@FreeBSD.org> <201207050408.WAA11175@lariat.net> In-Reply-To: <201207050408.WAA11175@lariat.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-security@FreeBSD.org, Robert Simmons , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 04:12:32 -0000 On 07/04/2012 21:08, Brett Glass wrote: > At 04:03 PM 7/4/2012, Doug Barton wrote: > >> Other than that, if whoever actually pushes all the rocks uphill to make >> the installer more modular in this regard decides to include djbdns, >> more power to them. :) > > I'm not suggesting that everyone will prefer djb, and the last thing I > want to do is start a religious war regarding the merits of different > resolvers or the efficacy of DNSSEC. I'm merely asking that any change > to the base system or the installation procedure allow me to choose this > or any of the other most popular resolvers, at install time, with as > little pain as possible. And as usual, your patches to implement that feature are eagerly anticipated. -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 04:08:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 819ED106566C; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 04:08:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.62.230.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1279A8FC1E; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 04:08:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from WildRover.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2] (may be forged)) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11175; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:08:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <201207050408.WAA11175@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 22:08:02 -0600 To: Doug Barton From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <4FF4BDA8.50303@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <201207042156.PAA09080@lariat.net> <4FF4BDA8.50303@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 04:19:04 +0000 Cc: Dag-Erling Smørgrav , freebsd-security@FreeBSD.org, Robert Simmons , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 04:08:12 -0000 At 04:03 PM 7/4/2012, Doug Barton wrote: >Other than that, if whoever actually pushes all the rocks uphill to make >the installer more modular in this regard decides to include djbdns, >more power to them. :) I'm not suggesting that everyone will prefer djb, and the last thing I want to do is start a religious war regarding the merits of different resolvers or the efficacy of DNSSEC. I'm merely asking that any change to the base system or the installation procedure allow me to choose this or any of the other most popular resolvers, at install time, with as little pain as possible. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 04:22:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38B97106566B for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 04:22:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@dataix.net) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D90CC8FC12 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 04:22:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so16031046obb.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 21:22:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=D1aWP4IudsAIP8kMgOl+1+pSThWY9rSlRd3xW7NNFIg=; b=aAv3x1BRDU2PyUP83kMJgqAplylrH8o6Mw5eHApUJ5WNszFk/m42ktWH3V04OoIxPx W9k63hLvgkAQiUXCT8HCUHfWdmB1CmYHKGkQSQHhIkSmd3mV8aBOy/0A7XxJLtV70q+4 CDHGLjPrRxVL+m0YUJlaUXHHlLNTUhbCBjB4s= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-gm-message-state; bh=D1aWP4IudsAIP8kMgOl+1+pSThWY9rSlRd3xW7NNFIg=; b=IjVSV+1pZ78PDoxg1lyLEYjxGkzPh3csIoXbQycyyaWaylX0+fAsQjxZlJwDfWGUK/ nvTmE3Hcz5hR0AYQGZPCMV/bFXv8fdAYpSlBdHlTEZWSD21pHSVcesxvNltiPbXsFesL W9IKmMonZ0hKiKdD0XuxL/GBk4d+fn2U9ghtHYzk/4rL+0UuRqYcN1eVa2ScXWqN3itS rDp/6MW2HSejYbrCo5Ih+PK3KyrIeZ4+vJxgtVnsmt9QfsTMZcPDj+36euelhj3oVh3Z p+Ftz9Twp4d6ARpSGGTiLolCxiKAfx4/Q4vtPR4gvEwuPxQAbYDW7+YhsB2ZnVyHpNYk LyDw== Received: by 10.50.186.196 with SMTP id fm4mr12977032igc.34.1341462163154; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 21:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (adsl-108-73-115-46.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net. [108.73.115.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bj4sm15471834igc.16.2012.07.04.21.22.41 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jul 2012 21:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q654Mc4R072752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Jul 2012 00:22:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Received: (from jh@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q654MRrF072751; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 00:22:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 00:22:27 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal To: Peter Jeremy Message-ID: <20120705042227.GC392@DataIX.net> References: <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <4FF4CA45.7070502@rawbw.com> <4FF4CB54.1060004@FreeBSD.org> <20120704191008.0aa46225@bhuda.mired.org> <20120705011110.GA27618@server.rulingia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120705011110.GA27618@server.rulingia.com> X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlfYzbVRNqDU3lCojF09ATgWxFjFvZaZwnbxM0U97DVeYPetAm1PlLiBHMgbHmFM8SalrLp Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Mike Meyer Subject: Re: install-prompt for missing features (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 04:22:44 -0000 On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 11:11:10AM +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: > On 2012-Jul-04 19:10:08 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote: > >My first thought was to suggest it be a port as well, but I'm not sure > >that can be done sanely. > > The easiest way is probably to implement some form of generic "command > not found" hook into sh(1) and tcsh(1) - in interactive mode, if a > specific function exists, execute it rather than reporting an error > message . The actual functionality to map a command name to a port > and suggest it to the user could nten be implemented separately as a > port and the user would enable it by adding the appropriate function > definition to their .profile/.login/.[t]cshrc files. > > Note that I'm not currently interested in this functionality and am > not volunteering to implement it. > Still appreciated input. I think it might be easier to make use "securely" of LD_PRELOAD and write a library with very specific functions and maybe even functions that will call in pkgng functions and such. LD_PRELOAD - Within interactive shell only load the functions... Check interactivity. Check return codes of commands issued. Make sure its a secure path and that any file referenced should not be owned by the user or writable by anyone else ... etc... etc... Check a database against plist mappings to packages for only those things that would be in the users PATH. Check to make sure that the user is in a preconfigured group of users authorized to be pestered by prompts.. - probably more - -- - (2^(N-1)) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 04:37:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBF75106566C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 04:37:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joerg@britannica.bec.de) Received: from mo6-p00-ob.rzone.de (mo6-p00-ob.rzone.de [IPv6:2a01:238:20a:202:5300::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FA5F8FC15 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 04:37:05 +0000 (UTC) X-RZG-AUTH: :JiIXek6mfvEEUpFQdo7Fj1/zg48CFjWjQv0cW+St/nW/afgnrylsiWq3cSp6yw== X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from britannica.bec.de (ip-109-45-41-16.web.vodafone.de [109.45.41.16]) by smtp.strato.de (jorabe mo91) (RZmta 29.19 DYNA|AUTH) with (AES128-SHA encrypted) ESMTPA id e00231o651ItKN for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 06:37:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: by britannica.bec.de (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 06:37:01 +0200 Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 06:37:01 +0200 From: Joerg Sonnenberger To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120705043701.GA10882@britannica.bec.de> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20120704233202.GA9910@hs1.VERBENA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120704233202.GA9910@hs1.VERBENA> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: GAS AT&T linkage issue X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 04:37:05 -0000 On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 04:32:02PM -0700, Colin Barnabas wrote: > movl $ebx, 28(%edi) ^ this should be %ebx, $ means a literal (immediate) value Joerg From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 05:13:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE94C1065673; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 05:13:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (unknown [IPv6:2607:f678:1010::34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A34D98FC0C; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 05:13:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (66@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id q655DQ6c070770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:13:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.14.2/Submit) with UUCP id q655DQXw070769; Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:13:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from fbsd81 ([192.168.200.81]) by pluto.rain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-pluto-M2060407) id AA15118; Wed, 4 Jul 12 22:09:12 PDT Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 05:09:05 -0700 From: perryh@pluto.rain.com To: dougb@freebsd.org Message-Id: <4ff583e1.p5DKDON6DEU+CQRo%perryh@pluto.rain.com> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <4FF4CA45.7070502@rawbw.com> <4FF4CB54.1060004@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FF4CB54.1060004@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: nail 11.25 7/29/05 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, yuri@rawbw.com, mwm@mired.org Subject: Re: install-prompt for missing features (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 05:13:28 -0000 Doug Barton wrote: > ... something like this would be *really* valuable to ease > the transition for people coming from a Linux background. I'm sure some folks here would count this as a reason *not* to provide it >:-> From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 06:10:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37C51106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 06:10:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0FF8FC0A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 06:10:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so8278305yen.13 for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 23:10:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=cgP6U36b8gIwDebwKXdMIoQneBN0nEJ4xTqtAMk/S5I=; b=YcbV5ITa3P7Dpm0rZPIhyriyyP3egpOHl16wkMPeIJd9nPE/2RkDHRkLPhmw2afbJ6 6pzRjrEqBzf30HOC0xYjtTha86dTOdtoQ347UUgq+/DUfPLpUYSzBoQ5Vwrp4vG7NQ+R E/kyUWZJO7OgLZzQJpNrFP9rp5qhRT9DenJvCxzJHw8Rh5PSXeduAlulKKaHs3vdwtiy dcxUfwaZq50ynwC816QHx9lZPl7t9WQ9wFQiSI/H+tCB0qXg8J6ilZ6F+YUXuSWxJF9V XBQuGqv7Vgp+PzW7kMjR9SM3VI/pi1yOwtxriMmOkGDzf5/m2ibwaAugXb7uUF9XrAnk PsZQ== Received: by 10.66.90.67 with SMTP id bu3mr34759702pab.47.1341468619878; Wed, 04 Jul 2012 23:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.63] (50-78-194-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.78.194.198]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id jv6sm19123616pbc.40.2012.07.04.23.10.18 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 Jul 2012 23:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 00:10:17 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <62039A45-92E4-4588-988D-6DF39D7B01E5@bsdimp.com> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> To: Doug Barton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlcNvj0hM4CciIvSB3MlVvnkZPgombTauq5ExaDWjwzsJlr8ke2oWOQyWjwrtRQVUDOJdtO Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 06:10:21 -0000 On Jul 4, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > On 07/04/2012 15:01, Mike Meyer wrote: >> On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 14:19:38 -0700 >> Doug Barton wrote: >>> On 07/04/2012 11:51, Jason Hellenthal wrote: >>>> What would be really nice here is a command wrapper hooked into the >>>> shell so that when you type a command and it does not exist it = presents >>>> you with a question for suggestions to install somewhat like Fedora = has >>>> done. >>> I would also like to see this feature, which is pretty much = universal in >>> linux at this point. It's very handy. >>=20 >> I, on the other hand, count it as one of the many features of Linux >> that make me use FreeBSD. >=20 > First, I agree that being able to turn it off should be possible. But = I > can't help being curious ... why would you *not* want a feature that > tells you what to install if you type a command that doesn't exist on > the system? Because I find on Linux it often gets it wrong and winds up being = useless noise. Mostly, though, it is because I mistype commands more = than I type commands that should be there, but aren't. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 07:22:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11225106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 07:22:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from j.mckeown@ru.ac.za) Received: from mail.ru.ac.za (mail.ru.ac.za [IPv6:2001:4200:1010:0:250:56ff:fe8d:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30E1A8FC24 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 07:22:29 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ru.ac.za; s=ru-msa; h=X-Authenticated-User:Message-Id:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=n8Q/HbKKP85F2bVkdLq4lbcSDqC5G4DF9YusUuY7nFs=; b=OLav5TlcH+wsvBZ2pscSSg5JVoLVQZXsr4qchkUu+UyJeMg1QArdTbZ4UCluCoWQnZHkBQFgLj0Q7Rz7eOzSWA3RjJjH23o1wNDlJorknz6f90Q+0z/JPfHhBs5AHvdv; Received: from vorkosigan.ru.ac.za ([2001:4200:1010:1058:219:d1ff:fe9f:a932]:51419) by mail.ru.ac.za with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SmgOQ-000N4L-21 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:22:26 +0200 From: Jonathan McKeown Organization: Rhodes University To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 09:22:25 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <62039A45-92E4-4588-988D-6DF39D7B01E5@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <62039A45-92E4-4588-988D-6DF39D7B01E5@bsdimp.com> X-Face: $@VrUx^RHy/}yu]jKf/<4T%/d|F+$j-Ol2"2J$q+%OK1]&/G_S9(=?utf-8?q?HkaQ*=60!=3FYOK=3FY!=27M=60C=0A=09aP=5C9nVPF8Q=7DCilHH8l=3B=7E!4?= =?utf-8?q?2HK6=273lg4J=7Daz?=@1Dqqh:J]M^"YPn*2IWrZON$1+G?oX3@ =?utf-8?q?k=230=0A=0954XDRg=3DYn=5FF-etwot4U=24b?=dTS{i X-Virus-Scanned: mail.ru.ac.za (2001:4200:1010:0:250:56ff:fe8d:5) X-Authenticated-User: s0900137 from vorkosigan.ru.ac.za (2001:4200:1010:1058:219:d1ff:fe9f:a932) using auth_plaintext Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 07:22:30 -0000 On Thursday 05 July 2012 08:10:17 Warner Losh wrote: > On Jul 4, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > > > > First, I agree that being able to turn it off should be possible. But I > > can't help being curious ... why would you *not* want a feature that > > tells you what to install if you type a command that doesn't exist on > > the system? > > Because I find on Linux it often gets it wrong and winds up being useless > noise. Mostly, though, it is because I mistype commands more than I type > commands that should be there, but aren't. Why on earth /would/ I want a command-line Clippy? (``I see you typed gerp. Would you like me to help you find a package with a gerp command?''). It was bloody irritating in Microsoft Office and it would be bloody irritating on the command line. Besides, as Warner points out, I'm many times more likely to get my fingers in a twist than randomly type in a command to see if it does anything. As for the idea that Linux refugees need extra help to migrate, that's the sort of thinking that led to things like: alias dir=ls for MSDOS refugees. It might be a useful crutch for a while but eventually you need to learn the system you're using rather than try to make it more like the one you got rid of. Or perhaps I'm just a grumpy old man.... More seriously, maybe we should have something like in the Handbook. And before someone says patches welcome, I think it needs to be someone who knows Linux rather better than I do. Jonathan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 08:29:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71D46106566C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 08:29:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vps.rulingia.com (host-122-100-2-194.octopus.com.au [122.100.2.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2E9D8FC0A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 08:29:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server.rulingia.com (c220-239-248-69.belrs5.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.248.69]) by vps.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q658T4VM032301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:29:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q658SwZp037479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:28:58 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q658SveE037478 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:28:57 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:28:57 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> References: <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <62039A45-92E4-4588-988D-6DF39D7B01E5@bsdimp.com> <201207050922.25815.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jRHKVT23PllUwdXP" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201207050922.25815.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:29:07 -0000 --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2012-Jul-05 09:22:25 +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote: >As for the idea that Linux refugees need extra help to migrate, that's the= =20 >sort of thinking that led to things like: > >alias dir=3Dls Whilst we're on the subject, can we please also have #define BEGIN { #define END } wired into gcc to help people migrating from Algol and Pascal. --=20 Peter Jeremy --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/1UEkACgkQ/opHv/APuIeqlgCgsIIHvPr4uUBXaWT4kxBN4DR9 zs4AoIg6cgZU0KWBdp+CzSdlp12qBUQp =mfmx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 09:04:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E030C106568D for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 09:04:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B65651A6E14 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 09:03:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 02:03:32 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120624 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <62039A45-92E4-4588-988D-6DF39D7B01E5@bsdimp.com> <201207050922.25815.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> In-Reply-To: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:04:03 -0000 On 07/05/2012 01:28, Peter Jeremy wrote: > On 2012-Jul-05 09:22:25 +0200, Jonathan McKeown > wrote: >> As for the idea that Linux refugees need extra help to migrate, >> that's the sort of thinking that led to things like: >> >> alias dir=ls > > Whilst we're on the subject, can we please also have #define BEGIN > { #define END } wired into gcc to help people migrating from Algol > and Pascal. Um, this kind of elitist crap really isn't helpful. If the new feature gets created, and you don't want to use it, turn it off. No problem. I appreciate the people who've spoken up as to why they wouldn't want to use it, but I haven't seen anything yet that says "having this feature is a universally bad idea." Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 09:32:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2939106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 09:32:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thomas.sparrevohn@btinternet.com) Received: from nm22-vm1.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com (nm22-vm1.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com [212.82.109.251]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0DC3D8FC0C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 09:32:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [77.238.189.233] by nm22.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2012 09:32:17 -0000 Received: from [212.82.108.224] by tm14.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2012 09:32:17 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1001.bt.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2012 09:32:17 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 746361.36500.bm@omp1001.bt.mail.ird.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 17824 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2012 09:32:17 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=DKIM-Signature:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:From:To:Subject:Date:User-Agent:References:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id; b=irVnwagpqE4MMzcyZGTYfdJ33LwdWG4nzV+ieEbf7IaQvGza53PgF7SGHOjuTh0AaP3jUIMjLjtLr9hCnEAGnW1rmxBkA6eohn7b/nl7SI4j8fW+eGt6Yn2d+d4gcjBwgkQr6McKnonIEY75/7jhMVfANa2uKEDdk4c2BJ7ESSc= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1341480737; bh=4LBxLoctM86pY07vgKirT2c3emsypvVlxFd11lxet9E=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:From:To:Subject:Date:User-Agent:References:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id; b=yBZwTG4QDMIsBF+JEV8clnflh5JnKb14Ua7W0ftbTOsiZN1J4+X5j/nVT6Qmd53vjgqQvIzRly5bfhIWF9/KwYcHls4+BlU7maAsTLWMAaRb5awiGdo6fajYCLhhaLz00s9th6OWrFPQfoyuz6N37L2EtaaISGEeMiIj4MLNjEc= X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: IzulLkUVM1n07zfBDI1iToj2zsCYuLHAg.vIf87S0_Qv2zq 1p9xX_ysJhxgTL4Zf2gVUzzAvqo.ErLZofiwZJLuvhx8O99kC17hruoBWxHR R3CNjxRpzVdGTgEafGOvb2uVlKdXcHGSmeRQ8DL4U15iS8Q4rxuRXXapkHlm UWhsLel3KLENb6rh2KptQtju.tHkQbB9idaw3SthU3LiJco.Mjao7eSqJAeX BR6Edp.z3L6WezZaepB2lxL1vYO08l34269UttGvhECw2.U7p.XcSfPR9lRE v4fzf2Iho3UuMBofNpY6U_5K_w6PZzwSYwAuaiQPk03h.QYLzrDlbWLr7QR9 GNHlXYeKu3D0iqhiyQ3JXcE.62fa4l6zcL_Xz.DHGTj_4JoebkpOcPoEK02_ xyvhwCm1c5R3Bi43tWl75UjL8pTHlx8lLIw-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: IZRlAYqswBDptUXTX.cYc1l2h3YNYE0xlrpi4wWl.OMHg4FYv7uDnfZx6kQf Received: from thomas-freebsd.aah-go-on.com (Thomas.Sparrevohn@86.133.211.100 with plain) by smtp823.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 05 Jul 2012 02:32:17 -0700 PDT From: Thomas Sparrevohn To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:32:16 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.4; amd64; ; ) References: <4FF4CB54.1060004@FreeBSD.org> <4ff583e1.p5DKDON6DEU+CQRo%perryh@pluto.rain.com> In-Reply-To: <4ff583e1.p5DKDON6DEU+CQRo%perryh@pluto.rain.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201207051032.16451.Thomas.Sparrevohn@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: install-prompt for missing features (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:32:25 -0000 On Thursday 05 Jul 2012 13:09:05 perryh@pluto.rain.com wrote: > Doug Barton wrote: > > ... something like this would be *really* valuable to ease > > the transition for people coming from a Linux background. > > I'm sure some folks here would count this as a reason *not* > to provide it >:-> > I think the idea is quite silly all in all - There are 23k Ports a lot of which will have executeables - so everytime I make a typo - a database with - say 30,000-40,000 elements and give me a list back of things I could install from say the russian ports - I don't speak russian. I suggest looking at extending locate(1) or apropos(1) instead. Installed as a default in the shell I would count as a major reason to abandon FreeBSD. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 09:48:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B60106566C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 09:48:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivier@gid0.org) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EAB28FC16 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 09:48:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so14474944lbo.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 02:48:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=HIzMRn91jJHeZw2EXSMKrXGgcXGE13k03BoA071TI3o=; b=FrwXVNfRvBJ/xCNNiCVU8t6B/YzoqP7hUUx/17DAWhEMpGMtYROhTcyOizVgeZS4Z/ a93yhwQxU0X+U6lZ9XLywBV8ZLq7FJT0ElOgZMvQclDLRk2uYNFek+8YXXyhQk0PCaJ9 4TWWC0k1hkfwY01PcR4HmFezEtlUz22QCa0CFn6g42Z7I0ZWRQa6Ewi2PJnzyn3J+lTj TyW43kpm1af2EPMSIbSvQgKNQNDhHA4koy/iW3Xntv4wwYcwdvV7ZhAcNO+ggJt4TMTW O/N1oOfzvgoppvnI+3rYfAgIQdhDZLtAnSfi6Aj3z4zDQ+mGicO3bEGL4hFdkh8ROQLP CY/g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.49.227 with SMTP id x3mr11651128lbn.73.1341481680923; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 02:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.100.68 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 02:48:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:48:00 +0200 Message-ID: From: Olivier Smedts To: Mike Meyer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnIVu2mqNaf9jZFMfv/gk4XexA5dW+Y1GdBjzMRoF2vVALJBKxW19RDSq+7EQHeDNt44AA7 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:48:02 -0000 2012/7/5 Mike Meyer : > My objection was not due to misunderstanding about auto-install. I > find the feature annoying - spewing a bunch of crap at me because of a > typo. It annoys me far more often than it actually helps me, because > more often than not the "missing command" is a typo, *not* an attempt > to run a command I don't have. I.e., if I type mmap instead of nmap, I > get: > > mwm@IPGhosterCrawlerI:~$ mmap > No command 'mmap' found, did you mean: > Command 'jmap' from package 'openjdk-6-jdk' (main) > Command 'jmap' from package 'openjdk-7-jdk' (universe) > Command 'gmap' from package 'gmap' (multiverse) > Command 'gmap' from package 'scotch' (universe) > Command 'tmap' from package 'emboss' (universe) > Command 'smap' from package 'slurm-llnl' (universe) > Command 'pmap' from package 'procps' (main) > Command 'moap' from package 'moap' (universe) > Command 'umap' from package 'libunicode-map8-perl' (main) > Command 'map' from package 'sgt-puzzles' (universe) > Command 'amap' from package 'amap-align' (universe) > mmap: command not found And it really annoys me too because usually, instead of an immediate "command not found", you've got a reply seconds later if on a not so fast computer. When working on Ubuntu, after a typo or missing command I have the time to realize that something strange is happening, to read again what I typed and to hit ^C before any message is displayed. -- Olivier Smedts _ ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) e-mail: olivier@gid0.org - against HTML email & vCards X www: http://www.gid0.org - against proprietary attachments / \ "Il y a seulement 10 sortes de gens dans le monde : ceux qui comprennent le binaire, et ceux qui ne le comprennent pas." From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 10:03:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 870FE1065670 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:03:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivier@gid0.org) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03DAF8FC16 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:03:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so14497217lbo.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 03:03:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=5MFLA1+pk+pzo1WJ9aS/vDO+SxYLldMXuB0UpQUx0og=; b=TUfIw0JdPojeHIYKURC/Lzj5KNnSR3hbw7GObgyUMW7BoeLeyRzCUMTCLIAPcx3yC3 1Az3lJzwv8DCnC/ibjv93+zRYoSCCL/pdzdW3OklFTOi5NRpVrsLu2GYcLkimlHaGmwC M5mDs5RS+Sk2oQmWxBxoThyF3A0jRtCmUnZHxcW0MDF0zIfCuRL7j1Bxj+ZkCSra9ogU OdjMpqGvcwUi2/bW8BFydj/xwjEO/LcBQk7FFgHXFoM8NPD5ESKJbtuZf/DVXgJzVmcq om39q/XYkDRi96sjEunn+W69KrZ9SAPm5hGSYyYQPhznK4uMcuxicDVjhknC/oNWF/3B voDA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.36.34 with SMTP id n2mr11968779lbj.62.1341482601862; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 03:03:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.100.68 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 03:03:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:03:21 +0200 Message-ID: From: Olivier Smedts To: Doug Barton Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlkWFDKNQAn5oZggkb+YU7b22KFyDZQhxhJMzxGB9LaSBUCzScCzdpPeg+4K/EaDWgGMFga Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:03:23 -0000 2012/7/5 Doug Barton : > On 07/04/2012 15:01, Mike Meyer wrote: >> On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 14:19:38 -0700 >> Doug Barton wrote: >>> On 07/04/2012 11:51, Jason Hellenthal wrote: >>>> What would be really nice here is a command wrapper hooked into the >>>> shell so that when you type a command and it does not exist it presents >>>> you with a question for suggestions to install somewhat like Fedora has >>>> done. >>> I would also like to see this feature, which is pretty much universal in >>> linux at this point. It's very handy. >> >> I, on the other hand, count it as one of the many features of Linux >> that make me use FreeBSD. > > First, I agree that being able to turn it off should be possible. But I > can't help being curious ... why would you *not* want a feature that > tells you what to install if you type a command that doesn't exist on > the system? You mean, this desktop "dumb mode" thing that makes my hard drive led crazy-blink and makes me hit (first) my desk and (then) ^C before anything is displayed ? my FreeBSD desktop : % time dsfsd dsfsd: Commande introuvable. 0.000u 0.002s 0:00.00 0.0% 0+0k 0+0io 0pf+0w an Ubuntu "server" : # time fsqfqsdfs fsqfqsdfs: command not found real 0m0.408s user 0m0.120s sys 0m0.040s and that's a *fast* one ! -- Olivier Smedts _ ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) e-mail: olivier@gid0.org - against HTML email & vCards X www: http://www.gid0.org - against proprietary attachments / \ "Il y a seulement 10 sortes de gens dans le monde : ceux qui comprennent le binaire, et ceux qui ne le comprennent pas." From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 10:15:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20E8B1065742 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:15:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from j.mckeown@ru.ac.za) Received: from mail.ru.ac.za (mail.ru.ac.za [IPv6:2001:4200:1010:0:250:56ff:fe8d:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DF268FC14 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:15:47 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ru.ac.za; s=ru-msa; h=X-Authenticated-User:Message-Id:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=c/RXrZEsCOGCpLyjfm1WwDk3FVDMhNc9tEBV1Z82zTc=; b=Ptdr4g6TW5Wrh6dAob8+JIqKLf5wbjJ8PY/IKnB5To0T4I/51z0L4/BjEbiHTTJB50pdSTUphkQNm3haFpa+1LGYCvsfHG+RwKhturkdoDDOnBqURgpsVxrvXFajPr3f; Received: from vorkosigan.ru.ac.za ([2001:4200:1010:1058:219:d1ff:fe9f:a932]:58516) by mail.ru.ac.za with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Smj69-0009LJ-0l for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:15:45 +0200 From: Jonathan McKeown Organization: Rhodes University To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:15:44 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> X-Face: $@VrUx^RHy/}yu]jKf/<4T%/d|F+$j-Ol2"2J$q+%OK1]&/G_S9(=?utf-8?q?HkaQ*=60!=3FYOK=3FY!=27M=60C=0A=09aP=5C9nVPF8Q=7DCilHH8l=3B=7E!4?= =?utf-8?q?2HK6=273lg4J=7Daz?=@1Dqqh:J]M^"YPn*2IWrZON$1+G?oX3@ =?utf-8?q?k=230=0A=0954XDRg=3DYn=5FF-etwot4U=24b?=dTS{i X-Virus-Scanned: mail.ru.ac.za (2001:4200:1010:0:250:56ff:fe8d:5) X-Authenticated-User: s0900137 from vorkosigan.ru.ac.za (2001:4200:1010:1058:219:d1ff:fe9f:a932) using auth_plaintext Subject: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:15:48 -0000 On Thursday 05 July 2012 11:03:32 Doug Barton wrote: > On 07/05/2012 01:28, Peter Jeremy wrote: > > On 2012-Jul-05 09:22:25 +0200, Jonathan McKeown > > > > wrote: > >> As for the idea that Linux refugees need extra help to migrate, > >> that's the sort of thinking that led to things like: > >> > >> alias dir=ls > > > > Whilst we're on the subject, can we please also have #define BEGIN > > { #define END } wired into gcc to help people migrating from Algol > > and Pascal. > > Um, this kind of elitist crap really isn't helpful. It was intended to be a slightly humorous response to your original question: > why would you *not* want a feature that tells you what to > install if you type a command that doesn't exist on the system? rather than ``elitist crap'' (as was the deliberately the over-the-top comparison to Clippy). I don't think suggesting that someone who wants to use a system learn how it works is elitist; and I don't object to optional tools to help them ``settle in'' (but see below). You might also notice that I made a suggestion that might help people migrating - namely some adaptation of the Unix Rosetta Stone in the Handbook so that people who know how to do something in Linux are quickly guided to the best way to do it in FreeBSD (and perhaps vice versa). > If the new feature gets created, and you don't want to use it, turn it > off. No problem. No. I think this is entirely the wrong way round. If the new feature is created and you want it, turn it on. Don't make me turn off something I didn't want in the first place. Given the choice between a system in which I switch on whatever I need, versus one which has absolutely everything switched on where I spend ages switching it all off/deinstalling it all, I know which I prefer - and others have made similar comments. > I haven't seen anything yet that says ``having this feature is a > universally bad idea.'' Several people have pointed out that for minor benefit, this will have the disadvantage of kicking off a subprocess searching a potentially very large database for every typo. I would call that a bad idea; certainly by comparison with a handbook entry or manpage along the lines I suggested. (I'd do it myself if I used Linux more than occasionally). Jonathan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 10:28:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E77E8106566B for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:28:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D0D98FC12 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:28:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so14536496lbo.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 03:28:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=KUDU47KqKE2BOERho6Foe3dKQzMFUUiJskLFSM38fF4=; b=stelrh0JT3u+TX1fUZNAutU9RiixX1RnrvG7xcBLU6B1sbGT1jB4s5vPwlEEEhe39M IC+Q8BC7JEULZ8v3Tgp/jRoOmxbyQ4mcn7ztOyH0hJzzB0VkJ9qj35JlvMJvMcUIToeP CXUmMEJzwlHsOrwlwvIcsYTdRiGXKIto3hKYt8CrlaEob11i+9skjEfGQMW2Y3I9k24u UNi9ppCH/JLr8hdDVBBWWmfbbuhhuPjXEmA9hPKSm/rIu90UyYygNFML1OKyosbrR0Z/ sbxz1uDvMIRdMqua5I+A3sTaRg34l1hHY0D6lhrNAmnF4NIhT1J2oxGgtlzBFS3k24RZ Zuvg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.136.18 with SMTP id pw18mr25366812lab.17.1341484117049; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 03:28:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.129.97 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 03:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.129.97 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 03:28:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:28:36 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Jonathan McKeown Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:28:39 -0000 On Jul 5, 2012 11:16 AM, "Jonathan McKeown" wrote: > > On Thursday 05 July 2012 11:03:32 Doug Barton wrote: > > On 07/05/2012 01:28, Peter Jeremy wrote: > > > On 2012-Jul-05 09:22:25 +0200, Jonathan McKeown > > > > > > wrote: > > >> As for the idea that Linux refugees need extra help to migrate, > > >> that's the sort of thinking that led to things like: > > >> > > >> alias dir=ls > > > > > > Whilst we're on the subject, can we please also have #define BEGIN > > > { #define END } wired into gcc to help people migrating from Algol > > > and Pascal. > > > > Um, this kind of elitist crap really isn't helpful. > > It was intended to be a slightly humorous response to your original question: > > > why would you *not* want a feature that tells you what to > > install if you type a command that doesn't exist on the system? > > rather than ``elitist crap'' (as was the deliberately the over-the-top > comparison to Clippy). I don't think suggesting that someone who wants to use > a system learn how it works is elitist; and I don't object to optional tools > to help them ``settle in'' (but see below). > > You might also notice that I made a suggestion that might help people > migrating - namely some adaptation of the Unix Rosetta Stone in the Handbook > so that people who know how to do something in Linux are quickly guided to > the best way to do it in FreeBSD (and perhaps vice versa). > > > If the new feature gets created, and you don't want to use it, turn it > > off. No problem. > > No. I think this is entirely the wrong way round. If the new feature is > created and you want it, turn it on. Don't make me turn off something I > didn't want in the first place. Given the choice between a system in which I > switch on whatever I need, versus one which has absolutely everything > switched on where I spend ages switching it all off/deinstalling it all, I > know which I prefer - and others have made similar comments. That's crazy- this is the logic that led to our sh having tab completion and history disabled by default for years. How many people honestly knew it was there? The people who would benefit from this feature are the ones who wouldn't know it was there. Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 10:38:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36C971065673; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:38:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from tensor.andric.com (cl-327.ede-01.nl.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:7b8:2ff:146::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB508FC17; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:38:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7:0:918f:6042:6b9e:bcda] (unknown [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7:0:918f:6042:6b9e:bcda]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tensor.andric.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 127A75C59; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:38:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4FF56E92.2010600@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:38:10 +0200 From: Dimitry Andric Organization: The FreeBSD Project User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120619 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Olivier Smedts References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5a1pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Doug Barton , Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:38:10 -0000 On 2012-07-05 12:03, Olivier Smedts wrote: ... > You mean, this desktop "dumb mode" thing that makes my hard drive led > crazy-blink and makes me hit (first) my desk and (then) ^C before > anything is displayed ? The next step will be to start searching the internet in the background, while you incrementally type characters... (complete with insulting "Did you mean 'foo'?" type suggestions. ;) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 10:40:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51E00106566B for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:40:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89D78FC12 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:40:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q65AeGJP004355; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:40:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q65AeF5c004352; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:40:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:40:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Jonathan McKeown In-Reply-To: <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> Message-ID: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:40:16 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:40:20 -0000 > comparison to Clippy). I don't think suggesting that someone who wants to use > a system learn how it works is elitist; and I don't object to optional tools it is normal way of using any system. And actually possible with FreeBSD In 21 century knowing ANYTHING is elitist anyway ;) > No. I think this is entirely the wrong way round. If the new feature is > created and you want it, turn it on. Don't make me turn off something I Correct. No feature that do something "over the curtain" should be active by default. period. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 10:40:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F070106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:40:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06DE38FC0C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:40:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q65AesqH004361; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:40:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q65Aes3n004358; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:40:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:40:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chris Rees In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:40:54 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jonathan McKeown Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:40:58 -0000 > That's crazy- this is the logic that led to our sh having tab completion this feature does not do anything without you knowing. you ENABLE it by pressing tab From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 12:04:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 627AD106566B for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:04:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B8978FC0A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:04:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-72-89-250-138.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [72.89.250.138]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7EB091B40C7 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:04:23 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF58257.4040301@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:02:31 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120628 Thunderbird/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <9fab855109ce448d89081b2ad8e5adc8@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> In-Reply-To: <9fab855109ce448d89081b2ad8e5adc8@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig4205A80AAA2ED048D9E6ACDB" Subject: Gentoo Solution to Nanny Terminal Problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:04:25 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig4205A80AAA2ED048D9E6ACDB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 07/05/2012 02:10 AM, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 > On Jul 4, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Doug Barton wrote: >=20 >> On 07/04/2012 15:01, Mike Meyer wrote: >>> On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 14:19:38 -0700 >>> Doug Barton wrote: >>>> On 07/04/2012 11:51, Jason Hellenthal wrote: >>>>> What would be really nice here is a command wrapper hooked into the= >>>>> shell so that when you type a command and it does not exist it pres= ents >>>>> you with a question for suggestions to install somewhat like Fedora= has >>>>> done. >>>> I would also like to see this feature, which is pretty much universa= l in >>>> linux at this point. It's very handy. >>> >>> I, on the other hand, count it as one of the many features of Linux >>> that make me use FreeBSD. >> >> First, I agree that being able to turn it off should be possible. But = I >> can't help being curious ... why would you *not* want a feature that >> tells you what to install if you type a command that doesn't exist on >> the system? >=20 > Because I find on Linux it often gets it wrong and winds up being usele= ss noise. Mostly, though, it is because I mistype commands more than I t= ype commands that should be there, but aren't. It might be useful to adapt a concept from Gentoo's app-portage/pfl package. It has two components. The first is a cron job that runs weekly. It will report all files installed by portage and which packages own them to an online database. The second is the e-file command, which will query that database for whatever follows it. For example, if I want to find out which package installs repoman, I can do `e-file repoman`. I can also do `e-file /usr/bin/repoman`. if FreeBSD had an equivalent to this command, this command, then I imagine that calls for Ubuntu/Fedora features should cease. Gentoo users seem to be happy with e-file. --------------enig4205A80AAA2ED048D9E6ACDB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJP9YJZAAoJECDuEZm+6ExkbJgP/3YyexYYyl8d7E5hqXrbQ1t8 FU6BAPoGqPUy1206oalVvTDoA9jjTjfQxqT5P3x7w8CqjxC7B5ngOOkYMAM43lEw RO4WOiw8eFp3mBfg0mpKaNTWT6ydICPEVXuvW+u2I+J5A7iEky2zUuNfablF0Htv 2KZEgE6iTMZMA913sBsi9ZVn9/vr2xJsbG3vtYCZ7HZWw6RcaoAnQL3x4tbmSnIW HAvt/ak6HFiFsTvmzuCmlsVNj6olJN+IvgA7eelH3p+BXk50BTuvIVkkzKrcsiPq JEsW+hT7pRKR8lKgENePPqoxiAh1igSBgjndV4J2N6rnHP5ufQIihNQlaCn9E4bK BL2x+crhuloE9BMYETU11BLvU5smFqmMm1R3+XC08sx7ae894FObanFwXLBETByZ ZxkB9rzUErKxsItvXAHnWc+siY1PO1F56lJxAyv82UWlapbb9pnSK/UV/SEHaA6e TTQmzJGC/nc3kJHO8eX5sMeJ/eSHc795xxJ123FasJeNY6Yb0bToo3AnhXDyIyuw cYnKgGWrGQ3gFhe+MnlkhhDP9H932xZ7E8ZSndpwQJgd1jgGr3w5dVUrAyZcwp+9 t/EsoSUGqjwTxoWyHX5tMVlGDMRUCI8h+Q9e9Lo0tA3jwV2wkPskXwy3P4ZirQed ue4Xp1Gx8gP0faTBT2nn =i0dK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig4205A80AAA2ED048D9E6ACDB-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 12:49:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A3BB106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:49:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vanhu@zeninc.net) Received: from smtp.zeninc.net (smtp.zeninc.net [80.67.176.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE0268FC15 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:49:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ken (ken.zen.inc [192.168.1.4]) by smtp.zeninc.net (smtpd) with ESMTP id 1B5DE2798BC; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:41:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: by ken (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C4E644256; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:41:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:41:41 +0200 From: VANHULLEBUS Yvan To: Dylan Castine Message-ID: <20120705124141.GA4568@zeninc.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: All mail clients suck. This one just sucks less. Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Riaan Kruger Subject: Re: adding new cipher support to kernel X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:49:27 -0000 On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 02:46:11PM -0400, Dylan Castine wrote: > Hi, Hi. > My name is Dylan, > > I want to add support for the AES-GCM cipher to the kernel. > I am currently using strongswan for an IPsec build and need ESP to use the > AES-GCM algorithm. > Any info is appreciated, Riaan (CCed to this mail) already worked on a patch to provide software AES-GCM. Patch isn't actually in HEAD because I still could not find time to do a last stage review before commiting it. Feel both free to insult me from time to time unless patch has been commited :-) Riaan: do you have a newer version of your patchset, or can I use the latest you sent to me ? On userland side, I just don't know if *swan supports AES-GCM. Yvan. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 13:08:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BE611065676 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 13:08:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivier@gid0.org) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9227A8FC0C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 13:08:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so14774735lbo.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 06:08:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=JQBW4FGexvGx3qHepWAaNbF5hlC5242phiFdCsalcsg=; b=CHx0wlqqZl4h2dmasWj/4NIgepAForoyX8YCFdANZFGt6Vxht9rjgeSrbXb69p2eg3 O5y/tuACWQztY1weAWN5uYfpW7819iJKep1qHnBgeysSeoknC7955oaZwe4Q9WUXtecT nvKDcDhXwzMfIpZYDQykys1owHU/xwgJvu5Sg6R/vKQApEllpqNZ1ynnVhEVq6v4WA4Y K344SPNUOUGWbigo4STVcJwSVMjHDvdzxkiVhbsdJDYIkZQFicAOxgnSXPCz5zROZ49n jgJYB732+wVbXDorGeYX/bpX1BlVynrJwUwd4yQO/WQm1iKIvbKQu52SCxlB0/7RbG2I xmAQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.49.227 with SMTP id x3mr11965666lbn.73.1341493691919; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 06:08:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.100.68 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 06:08:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FF56E92.2010600@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <4FF56E92.2010600@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 15:08:11 +0200 Message-ID: From: Olivier Smedts To: Dimitry Andric Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlGR6S61G42p/EEMZV4uCMkcNnRXC9K1x89DPac4P3XatqeflHtvuVnIdUDB5HyacDmVTGf Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Doug Barton , Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:08:14 -0000 2012/7/5 Dimitry Andric : > On 2012-07-05 12:03, Olivier Smedts wrote: > ... >> You mean, this desktop "dumb mode" thing that makes my hard drive led >> crazy-blink and makes me hit (first) my desk and (then) ^C before >> anything is displayed ? > > The next step will be to start searching the internet in the background, > while you incrementally type characters... (complete with insulting "Did > you mean 'foo'?" type suggestions. ;) But Google can afford crazy-blinking-led-hard-drives ;-) -- Olivier Smedts _ ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) e-mail: olivier@gid0.org - against HTML email & vCards X www: http://www.gid0.org - against proprietary attachments / \ "Il y a seulement 10 sortes de gens dans le monde : ceux qui comprennent le binaire, et ceux qui ne le comprennent pas." From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 13:15:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEB7F106566C; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 13:15:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from riaank@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0499A8FC08; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 13:15:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so14784906lbo.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 06:15:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=F3AbQZ7byykj1SvZ+RcNbaskl1anLq7eOzVashCtBiU=; b=jA1DNwnX2xS0dlRIPs5GwFgt0BlRr3k5BjQy44BtfK0gq0C57r0IOuYEuDd1g/OZ2z 5nSNEdy1WXyQO/bAor5wgGGYzpGhvjxHGXRN/sRIxMAImTtCH58jFedKotYArcZSGtlK z8KeXF2IEKxnY2EltCgLxjHxU0kqcwfQ6dI03V8Y7sd+AKp1gmaaVLZGXnKesKPVC+zk CCmtXgGpcHQ4HpaZbh7AWCr4vtWIr26UsY7yWrvGSUhpYZtgtbi4upM7vKMPlRR//6GV AgzGNT2IDmFAhmilnZPoU2Y4hZNOMFOeaDNN0BqzLsvR0zG/nWIrFIv9Xs+mM9xUw/ip oHWQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.99.71 with SMTP id eo7mr12245747lbb.84.1341494122959; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 06:15:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.93.43 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 06:15:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120705124141.GA4568@zeninc.net> References: <20120705124141.GA4568@zeninc.net> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 15:15:22 +0200 Message-ID: From: Riaan Kruger To: VANHULLEBUS Yvan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: adding new cipher support to kernel X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:15:24 -0000 > Riaan: do you have a newer version of your patchset, or can I use the > > latest you sent to me ? Yvan: The last one I sent, I believe it was named "aesgcm_cleaned.diff" is the latest. If there is anything I can help with, just say. I know I am not Mr. Speedy, but I would like to help if I can :) Yvan & Dylan: Strongswan does not support aes gcm for freebsd; it does not have the pfkey identifier in its kernel_pfkey plugin. All it needs is the identifier in its kernel_pfkey plugin. We have a simple strongswan patch for that. The identifier is defined in the freebsd aes gcm patches that Yvan is looking at. Riaan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 14:35:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70D34106566B; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:35:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE05A8FC08; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:35:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q65EZ1i3002815; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:35:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q65EZ1pM002811; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:35:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:35:01 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Olivier Smedts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <4FF56E92.2010600@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:35:02 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Dimitry Andric , Mike Meyer , Doug Barton Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 14:35:08 -0000 > > But Google can afford crazy-blinking-led-hard-drives ;-) Google can not afford anything useless or overpriced, only actually cheap and working things. That's why google controls most of you, not the reverse ;) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 14:36:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 666101065673 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:36:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAF648FC15 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:36:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q65EagZJ002904; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:36:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q65Eaf4c002900; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:36:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:36:41 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mike Meyer In-Reply-To: <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> Message-ID: References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:36:42 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 14:36:46 -0000 > mwm@IPGhosterCrawlerI:~$ mmap > No command 'mmap' found, did you mean: > Command 'jmap' from package 'openjdk-6-jdk' (main) > Command 'jmap' from package 'openjdk-7-jdk' (universe) > Command 'gmap' from package 'gmap' (multiverse) > Command 'gmap' from package 'scotch' (universe) > Command 'tmap' from package 'emboss' (universe) > Command 'smap' from package 'slurm-llnl' (universe) > Command 'pmap' from package 'procps' (main) > Command 'moap' from package 'moap' (universe) > Command 'umap' from package 'libunicode-map8-perl' (main) > Command 'map' from package 'sgt-puzzles' (universe) > Command 'amap' from package 'amap-align' (universe) > mmap: command not found are you serious that linux distros have such a think now? I didn't use linux for a long time and no plan to use it, but you are joking isn't it? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 14:58:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D48FC106566B for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:58:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sean@gothic.net.au) Received: from hosted.gothic.net.au (2001-44b8-4114-fe00-5054-00ff-fe31-937e.static.ipv6.internode.on.net [IPv6:2001:44b8:4114:fe00:5054:ff:fe31:937e]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F7748FC14 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:58:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hosted.gothic.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hosted.gothic.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3WShz93kQxzFXvR; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 00:58:45 +1000 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at gothic.net.au Received: from hosted.gothic.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by hosted.gothic.net.au (hosted.gothic.net.au [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3My_4l5tYHv6; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 00:58:39 +1000 (EST) Received: from 2001-44b8-4114-fe02-0080-59d2-963f-eb32.static.ipv6.internode.on.net (2001-44b8-4114-fe02-0080-59d2-963f-eb32.static.ipv6.internode.on.net [IPv6:2001:44b8:4114:fe02:80:59d2:963f:eb32]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: sean@gothic.net.au) by hosted.gothic.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3WShz35XkfzFXv4; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 00:58:39 +1000 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Sean In-Reply-To: <4FF58257.4040301@gentoo.org> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 00:58:39 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <38FB993D-6EB4-49BF-9790-420F7375E331@gothic.net.au> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <9fab855109ce448d89081b2ad8e5adc8@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FF58257.4040301@gentoo.org> To: Richard Yao X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gentoo Solution to Nanny Terminal Problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 14:58:54 -0000 On 05/07/2012, at 10:02 PM, Richard Yao wrote: > > The second is the e-file command, which will query that database for > whatever follows it. For example, if I want to find out which package > installs repoman, I can do `e-file repoman`. I can also do `e-file > /usr/bin/repoman`. > > if FreeBSD had an equivalent to this command, this command, then I > imagine that calls for Ubuntu/Fedora features should cease. Gentoo users > seem to be happy with e-file. > 0:55 Fri 06-Jul sean@queen [~] pkg_info -W bash /usr/local/bin/bash was installed by package bash-4.2.28 0:57 Fri 06-Jul sean@queen [~] pkg_info -W /usr/local/sbin/sendmail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail was installed by package postfix-2.9.3,1 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 15:08:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5716106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 15:08:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8041C8FC12 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 15:08:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so16995245obb.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:08:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=60VnytIId45nDEFNX1Fwq3kiLrFxPozk+/5Zr3ctu4g=; b=tiXapwQTguwO+nDTvH0LZ3Plvs5GFfp4O3xOlJp0D4wT7qCG0/Y7SXDzezXQbNBJqG YqW8FpB4dTUQ17vbwvsT0XyFmp4ocvnmNR3lfaB5Adi4ccF8fzyzYkPGGsdDbxw1k7Re SVXfCnps+jNOl6awSY0uOpW48KZfnO5zHwqOpqhu1KM8ZJCbh/IXDAuwSmLP16lH8z3T LuMB0osiSj40PWReV3Hvi4xCQJGagSG0JRrq64AHachhg0QFZk5HGpBOtG1LYa6qUz21 vsrq599lfmwNixuGfXmP1ioTDaatzTjyHLV53XC7YIGoQiz21sC+20p8v//idWYZyFQE YSWA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.152.73 with SMTP id uw9mr21694973obb.0.1341500914053; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.84.7 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 08:08:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 08:08:33 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Olivier Smedts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 15:08:35 -0000 On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 2:48 AM, Olivier Smedts wrote: > 2012/7/5 Mike Meyer : >> My objection was not due to misunderstanding about auto-install. I >> find the feature annoying - spewing a bunch of crap at me because of a >> typo. It annoys me far more often than it actually helps me, because >> more often than not the "missing command" is a typo, *not* an attempt >> to run a command I don't have. I.e., if I type mmap instead of nmap, I >> get: >> >> mwm@IPGhosterCrawlerI:~$ mmap >> No command 'mmap' found, did you mean: >> Command 'jmap' from package 'openjdk-6-jdk' (main) >> Command 'jmap' from package 'openjdk-7-jdk' (universe) >> Command 'gmap' from package 'gmap' (multiverse) >> Command 'gmap' from package 'scotch' (universe) >> Command 'tmap' from package 'emboss' (universe) >> Command 'smap' from package 'slurm-llnl' (universe) >> Command 'pmap' from package 'procps' (main) >> Command 'moap' from package 'moap' (universe) >> Command 'umap' from package 'libunicode-map8-perl' (main) >> Command 'map' from package 'sgt-puzzles' (universe) >> Command 'amap' from package 'amap-align' (universe) >> mmap: command not found > > And it really annoys me too because usually, instead of an immediate > "command not found", you've got a reply seconds later if on a not so > fast computer. When working on Ubuntu, after a typo or missing command > I have the time to realize that something strange is happening, to > read again what I typed and to hit ^C before any message is displayed. Almost like you need a "Better diagnostic message to note that a package database is being searched" ;]... -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 15:09:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA663106566B for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 15:09:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7912D8FC22 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 15:09:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so5588667qcs.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:09:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=6JDeqt2QrF2u1OtjyTv9WePT/BJsSLMyufqXre1colM=; b=rAg6IWHBaxy9wQu0Ot+gg4eC2OJYqt4RF1IC1I1ApC/0pNkizgLKguj5yDQ1a7IRYs Xim6XW5DLEKdF/pGD9pKCy0AbxE2Q4dk9WGY5kPvQ2H0uTyYw7G1VNJFB8adzSbhTIjR HJHUOopyEoEfl54DTp3aNiY7kjd62R788fTyDeMKY+r5g3EtXjKGY2SFWMI3pOGzgn9r g7NnyoSst6uRDCNAP3OIZPN/noxjNHLCZKqPMXFS1wu667mxs/hBpxe7NFiHD6u9dGl+ BVqmeltRlryYxlFKa9p9IwGkF2nhqqEC+kV8XeE5kYK2V2/1LDUP+Hmq2yY1RQm3mzu7 8ufQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.20.136 with SMTP id n8mr27045793oee.54.1341500980975; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.84.7 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 08:09:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 08:09:40 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 15:09:47 -0000 On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 7:36 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> mwm@IPGhosterCrawlerI:~$ mmap >> No command 'mmap' found, did you mean: >> Command 'jmap' from package 'openjdk-6-jdk' (main) >> Command 'jmap' from package 'openjdk-7-jdk' (universe) >> Command 'gmap' from package 'gmap' (multiverse) >> Command 'gmap' from package 'scotch' (universe) >> Command 'tmap' from package 'emboss' (universe) >> Command 'smap' from package 'slurm-llnl' (universe) >> Command 'pmap' from package 'procps' (main) >> Command 'moap' from package 'moap' (universe) >> Command 'umap' from package 'libunicode-map8-perl' (main) >> Command 'map' from package 'sgt-puzzles' (universe) >> Command 'amap' from package 'amap-align' (universe) >> mmap: command not found > > are you serious that linux distros have such a think now? > I didn't use linux for a long time and no plan to use it, but you are joking > isn't it? It's a Debian thing. It doesn't exist [out of the box] on Gentoo, Redhat, Suse, etc. -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 15:13:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8017C1065672 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 15:13:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1EF08FC18 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 15:13:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.187.76.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q65FDjIK075112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:13:45 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q65FDjIK075112 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infracaninophile.co.uk; s=201001-infracaninophile; t=1341501226; bh=I64u7nR03WH9yDt8BrZ/xytBVCQSrjku/L/8qm23XH8=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Message-ID:Mime-Version; b=TlveYQcnGXE2yCdyeHGoxkJz5awxZD2D4EhVoeWMfHg8aPlzInivNP8CHto1YoAY/ 0hmrC6Qn8AWAScygCshODGY54HFYFzNsR/iWHfqiucm4kTAdPsmbcVNa3mp1AGrrJ3 2kaV7n/+11eRVfRLcDXkgEikRNUFJ4K5hUvN7j+g= Message-ID: <4FF5AF22.9000908@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:13:38 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sean References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <9fab855109ce448d89081b2ad8e5adc8@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FF58257.4040301@gentoo.org> <38FB993D-6EB4-49BF-9790-420F7375E331@gothic.net.au> In-Reply-To: <38FB993D-6EB4-49BF-9790-420F7375E331@gothic.net.au> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=60AE908C Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig011733AE6EE00F0ED49D0F32" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.5 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_ALL,DKIM_SIGNED,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=no version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Richard Yao Subject: Re: Gentoo Solution to Nanny Terminal Problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 15:13:50 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig011733AE6EE00F0ED49D0F32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/07/2012 15:58, Sean wrote: >=20 > On 05/07/2012, at 10:02 PM, Richard Yao wrote: >> >> The second is the e-file command, which will query that database for >> whatever follows it. For example, if I want to find out which package >> installs repoman, I can do `e-file repoman`. I can also do `e-file >> /usr/bin/repoman`. >> >> if FreeBSD had an equivalent to this command, this command, then I >> imagine that calls for Ubuntu/Fedora features should cease. Gentoo use= rs >> seem to be happy with e-file. >> >=20 >=20 > 0:55 Fri 06-Jul sean@queen [~] pkg_info -W bash > /usr/local/bin/bash was installed by package bash-4.2.28 >=20 > 0:57 Fri 06-Jul sean@queen [~] pkg_info -W /usr/local/sbin/sendmail=20 > /usr/local/sbin/sendmail was installed by package postfix-2.9.3,1 Not the same thing. Richard's command doesn't need the packages to be installed first. It's answering "what package should I install to get this program?" rather than "what package did this program come from?" Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate JID: matthew@infracaninophile.co.uk Kent, CT11 9PW --------------enig011733AE6EE00F0ED49D0F32 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/1rykACgkQ8Mjk52CukIxEbwCfUO0h3CnJUxQ7OyarzLn/mHOk rpwAn1/tQFMfZidTsSBYI68NLSEJH1Rp =NJfM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig011733AE6EE00F0ED49D0F32-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 15:16:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D569E1065670; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 15:16:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f54.google.com (mail-qa0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 639948FC08; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 15:16:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qaat11 with SMTP id t11so4022535qaa.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:16:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=pTq7Fxz6u6ZhO5ebYj7bXVKGpnl12CDfb0xnCme88V0=; b=TIL2e1Z3ff0qzKrXuCFWCSZfSdA+SYUOahNYGgtfNyIIXCclpzhH4+XNSvcWbWi5oU eYrUrNssAU06aIDKJrlSn7SkhxQTuqUszVS+m6zxdt993ccrKJgpBgcgZPPAA3I29jIe 5PSEJSR8n+sFJNp4qWDECcAaYN17yHupgaUfs3DCgxKtESBqUy0RERjHcWFsJoyEXFRk Qtc54jf96O3c6LfAgQlGhrA2xznaWtTrlkZfFNRVe2a2aeHs2U3dpe264dEBLQpINxxd 0hM+3imLqp9QZu/wUYQQi39TdvANe6Jan722vyj3LDgmpAK0vw1Nv+r7WCUVyjk9hCJR 8w3Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.20.74 with SMTP id l10mr27472715oee.19.1341501367543; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.84.7 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 08:16:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FF56E92.2010600@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <4FF56E92.2010600@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 08:16:07 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Dimitry Andric Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Olivier Smedts , hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer , Doug Barton Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 15:16:13 -0000 On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 3:38 AM, Dimitry Andric wrote: > On 2012-07-05 12:03, Olivier Smedts wrote: > ... >> You mean, this desktop "dumb mode" thing that makes my hard drive led >> crazy-blink and makes me hit (first) my desk and (then) ^C before >> anything is displayed ? > > The next step will be to start searching the internet in the background, > while you incrementally type characters... (complete with insulting "Did > you mean 'foo'?" type suggestions. ;) http://bit.ly/MLGsuk I'm sorry -- I couldn't help it :D... -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 15:16:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DDDA10656FF for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 15:16:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC6978FC14 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 15:16:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcje9 with SMTP id je9so3183525bkc.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:16:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=SH+oUvL+Mo5Y40JRWOfoMq4GOWrJ1VlfP6TXpB/WtTs=; b=UuLsG4S2swwYh/QC57gmaLl4IBDV+we1x4wDuIaTkL9RYyBCkRP+wag9NK374YCylm kPkfd3v+6ZIPMG3ikTvWkKIQwrGiy8peFl4MwIZfbExXgznZtNreAWnSOUWsE3lapZvz ut5DDzxgABtMBIV2WMDQN2LRbrOWlyuUrI+fQMd5PgA1WljFJE6gvKjeK6CZM1UBhZC7 yDRdsunVtUmju+ah/b+IzRKM7LUaeTvFlcjg1Jp9YHIigy+UKpjD4Xz81bYAMgvzmq+K DvSbLkM0GX6ger0acCZP/L8sV+7XDTcFlGwGaycnyYPRUXYMWIM/CAD+vEa5NqVxYYv1 Jqbg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.152.27 with SMTP id e27mr13763054bkw.56.1341501389489; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 08:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.49.87 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 08:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.49.87 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 08:16:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <38FB993D-6EB4-49BF-9790-420F7375E331@gothic.net.au> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <9fab855109ce448d89081b2ad8e5adc8@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FF58257.4040301@gentoo.org> <38FB993D-6EB4-49BF-9790-420F7375E331@gothic.net.au> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:16:29 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Sean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Richard Yao Subject: Re: Gentoo Solution to Nanny Terminal Problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 15:16:31 -0000 On Jul 5, 2012 4:00 PM, "Sean" wrote: > > > On 05/07/2012, at 10:02 PM, Richard Yao wrote: > > > > The second is the e-file command, which will query that database for > > whatever follows it. For example, if I want to find out which package > > installs repoman, I can do `e-file repoman`. I can also do `e-file > > /usr/bin/repoman`. > > > > if FreeBSD had an equivalent to this command, this command, then I > > imagine that calls for Ubuntu/Fedora features should cease. Gentoo users > > seem to be happy with e-file. > > > > > 0:55 Fri 06-Jul sean@queen [~] pkg_info -W bash > /usr/local/bin/bash was installed by package bash-4.2.28 > > 0:57 Fri 06-Jul sean@queen [~] pkg_info -W /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > /usr/local/sbin/sendmail was installed by package postfix-2.9.3,1 This isn't the same at all; it only reports for installed packages. Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 14:57:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BBA8106566B for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:57:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jonathan.robert.anderson@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com (mail-wi0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1D658FC08 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:57:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhm11 with SMTP id hm11so5241316wib.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 07:57:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=XgADbfiILebGvIeIcOcVrOJH+2IvBrT7UbPZCttPLag=; b=1CDTOhTMpSDNKsN2aYmAb59OQOkZ13kNnJHqBq2Z55QFa+70141Eh48vMbNGDfXC8k GbGE5cqdlpMMEdFIAEV14CRegDoQRivu1v4Kt1B70Rd4QaZJYEmp0c8KincpVnnwp0aw 1syE8iVdgYcmSXAoWKhgiMIcjL7PMqCR/5GHbjp+H/GCNa+RhInG3wJMg30Z33RFLI/m +YhQY5xcFELpndkeT7SD2uja2eggwQNW3Ewp7VHcRbteTxTVXrkZovOz+AkeuvrTOUrh 8sj35BfJe60rnJueQXCbdj0sTkgRhM1hpBB2G/sx72rwKkfwV15zLLwZCx5JqQUujPii s/Ug== Received: by 10.180.78.99 with SMTP id a3mr86733wix.15.1341500231498; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 07:57:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c137.al.cl.cam.ac.uk (c137.al.cl.cam.ac.uk. [128.232.110.137]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y2sm364607wix.7.2012.07.05.07.57.09 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 07:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Jonathan Anderson In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 15:57:09 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2336980A-5AAB-4D45-8177-71609A7B31F7@gmail.com> References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> To: Wojciech Puchar X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 15:30:44 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 14:57:13 -0000 On 5 Jul 2012, at 15:36, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> mwm@IPGhosterCrawlerI:~$ mmap >> No command 'mmap' found, did you mean: >> Command 'jmap' from package 'openjdk-6-jdk' (main) >> Command 'jmap' from package 'openjdk-7-jdk' (universe) >> Command 'gmap' from package 'gmap' (multiverse) >> Command 'gmap' from package 'scotch' (universe) >> Command 'tmap' from package 'emboss' (universe) >> Command 'smap' from package 'slurm-llnl' (universe) >> Command 'pmap' from package 'procps' (main) >> Command 'moap' from package 'moap' (universe) >> Command 'umap' from package 'libunicode-map8-perl' (main) >> Command 'map' from package 'sgt-puzzles' (universe) >> Command 'amap' from package 'amap-align' (universe) >> mmap: command not found >=20 > are you serious that linux distros have such a think now? > I didn't use linux for a long time and no plan to use it, but you are = joking isn't it? They do, and it's actually very useful in two cases: 1. new users =97 "my friend told me to try out latex, but when I type = 'latex' nothing happens! oh wait, that's how I make it work" 2. confusingly-named packages. on FreeBSD: [nick ~]$ latex zsh: command not found: latex [nick ~]$ pkg search latex | awk '{print $1}' latex-chapterfolder-2.0.20051124 latex-supertabular-1_3 ja-latex2html-2002.2.1j2.0_11 latex-beamer-3.07_4 latex-feynmf-1.08.19961202_7 pidgin-latex-1.0_5 latex-biblatex-0.9e latex-pgf-2.10 latex-svninfo-0.7.4_3 latex-keystroke-1.0.20001109_5 latex-aastex-5.2_3 klatexformula-3.1.2_2 latex-nomencl-4.2.20050922 jlatexmath-0.9.7 latex-acm-1.1 latex-circ-1.0f_5 html2latex-0.9c rtf2latex2e-1.0 latex-timing-1.0.19940515_6 latex-aa-6.1_3 latex-ucs-20041017_5 tomboy-plugin-latex-0.6 latex2e-2003.12_1 latex-etoolbox-2.0.a db2latex-0.8p1_1 dblatex-0.3.2 latex2html-2008 latex2slides-1.0_5 platex-jsclasses-1.0.20110510 ja-platex-otf-1.2.4_6 ja-platex209-1.0_7 latex-mk-2.1_2 rtf2latex-1.5 latex-prettyref-3.0_4 latex-texpower-0.2_4 latex-arydshln-1.71.20040831_5 latex-logreq-1.0 cpp2latex-2.3 latex-biblist-1.4.19920113_5 platex-japanese-1.3_4 latex-caption-3.1.20100114_1 latex-auto-greek-1.0b_4 latexmk-431 latex-service-0.1_2 latex2rtf-2.0.0 latex-tipa-1.3_4 latex-mathabx-1.0.20050518_4 latex-logpap-0.6.20040201_5 htmltolatex-1_15 latex-bytefield-1.2.20050731_5 latex-resume-20010823_3 latexdiff-0.5_2 easylatex-0.080 csv2latex-0.18,1 latex-subfloat-2.14.20030821_5 latex-csquotes-5.0b latex-ltablex-1.0_1 latex-cjk-4.8.2_5 Compare to bash on Ubuntu: [jra40@kent ~]$ latex The program 'latex' is currently not installed. You can install it by = typing: sudo apt-get install texlive-latex-base This kind of thing makes the system *very* discoverable for non-experts = (even non-experts wrt a particular package). You don't need to check = mailing lists or freshports or whatnot, you can just try stuff out, and = when it doesn't work, the system sometimes helps you find the thing = you're looking for. For some people (like me), "just try stuff out" is = an excellent way to start playing / getting familiar with a new system; = it makes it more likely that I will stick with that system. The command line shouldn't have to be a scary place for new users. Jon -- Jonathan Anderson jonathan@FreeBSD.org http://freebsd.org/~jonathan/= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 16:05:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E3CA106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:05:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 270FF8FC15 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:05:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so3616906eek.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:05:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=8dDb2L4uiLiLPttpMho7w2xMUcgvUWfxI5QC+UujN8g=; b=POmnNIQeMucf8vGmLSiFvh/g21VMwVTiaPyppIA/r3GmJb6WjvsIUxdEBBtlvyosjb HZ1Zc2R8r07qrlmnX/HcVLsmI1pxFgb1fHXgzhBUGvRqPlrwRAQvMeez6874OH7bDtaG mJl9A72qczOHpO6Gx/rQMySbtQfohjYXDdS4z6wxfgElw90hOiKqgA956b6cdmwcc563 E7mZEMrazNLCIYxJUFi8f320gBel74Gc5UPlqv4CG8OjhIc+F3MF3FBFcSWEPum7Hm5U /qJM0W8NX5tAOTnlnZEIJozKO23JbNmdr24J1ZFHPoinZGNAXbxzF6wELtKaYLrecIc3 V+fA== Received: by 10.14.97.16 with SMTP id s16mr5936678eef.117.1341504345090; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfleuriot-at-hi-media.com ([83.167.62.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u56sm64108377eef.7.2012.07.05.09.05.43 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FF5BB56.10100@my.gd> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:05:42 +0200 From: Damien Fleuriot User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlC7daAkxERP80jeeKVl5ignv6KoAO66OKYVNj3EmnNRyl+kO1ScizT3OBLT+BYVM+6N//O Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:05:46 -0000 On 7/3/12 3:36 PM, Mark Felder wrote: > On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 07:39:34 -0500, Dag-Erling SmÞrgrav wrote: > >> >> I don't think there will be as much whinging as you expect. Times have >> changed. > > Agreed; if we need DNS in base (really, why?) Because when people install a server, they expect it to be able to resolve host names ? I fail to see how I'd be able to build BIND (or whatever other resolver) from the ports tree if my server wasn't able to download the sources in the first place. Using a third-party's name servers is not an option ;) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 16:18:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BA87106566B for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:18:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sean@gothic.net.au) Received: from hosted.gothic.net.au (eth1539.vic.adsl.internode.on.net [150.101.217.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF3C8FC08 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:18:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hosted.gothic.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hosted.gothic.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3WSklZ5XSwzFXvR; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 02:18:50 +1000 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at gothic.net.au Received: from hosted.gothic.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by hosted.gothic.net.au (hosted.gothic.net.au [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t6GoWascl5l4; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 02:18:40 +1000 (EST) Received: from 2001-44b8-4114-fe02-0080-59d2-963f-eb32.static.ipv6.internode.on.net (2001-44b8-4114-fe02-0080-59d2-963f-eb32.static.ipv6.internode.on.net [IPv6:2001:44b8:4114:fe02:80:59d2:963f:eb32]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: sean@gothic.net.au) by hosted.gothic.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3WSklN61QFzFXv4; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 02:18:40 +1000 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Sean In-Reply-To: <4FF5B0FE.5010609@gentoo.org> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 02:18:38 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8B6B2F42-71EA-449A-8A83-8F76C34A2DC5@gothic.net.au> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <9fab855109ce448d89081b2ad8e5adc8@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FF58257.4040301@gentoo.org> <38FB993D-6EB4-49BF-9790-420F7375E331@gothic.net.au> <4FF5B0FE.5010609@gentoo.org> To: Richard Yao X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gentoo Solution to Nanny Terminal Problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:18:53 -0000 On 06/07/2012, at 1:21 AM, Richard Yao wrote: > On 07/05/2012 10:58 AM, Sean wrote: >>=20 >> On 05/07/2012, at 10:02 PM, Richard Yao wrote: >>>=20 >>> The second is the e-file command, which will query that database for >>> whatever follows it. For example, if I want to find out which = package >>> installs repoman, I can do `e-file repoman`. I can also do `e-file >>> /usr/bin/repoman`. >>>=20 >>> if FreeBSD had an equivalent to this command, this command, then I >>> imagine that calls for Ubuntu/Fedora features should cease. Gentoo = users >>> seem to be happy with e-file. >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 0:55 Fri 06-Jul sean@queen [~] pkg_info -W bash >> /usr/local/bin/bash was installed by package bash-4.2.28 >>=20 >> 0:57 Fri 06-Jul sean@queen [~] pkg_info -W /usr/local/sbin/sendmail=20= >> /usr/local/sbin/sendmail was installed by package postfix-2.9.3,1 >=20 > Does that tell you about packages that are not installed? >=20 No, but that wasn't part of your description. Or if it was, I missed it = and go me for publicly putting my foot in my mouth :) And if it's going down the path of every package/port there's questions = (at least to me...) - is it all possible ports/packages including = options (and that's a big 'how?'), or just the defaults? Considering how = dynamic ports are with options rather than being broken up into pieces, = it gets ugly fast - which port has /usr/local/bin/ndb_config? ok, yes, = mysql*-server, but only if WITH_NDB - it's not default. Maybe that = should be a mysql*-server-ndb port, but it's not, and it's far from = alone there ... PHP was at one time the poster child for compiling = everything in via options rather than using modules and I'm very = grateful for the maintainers for sorting out that mess as much as they = have. But it's also another example of non-default options making = notable changes; what if you're looking for the mod_php setup? Searching = for mod_php won't work if you just use defaults; it's a non-default = option for the php5* package. Same with php-fpm.=20 It's an effective solution for the default packages and certainly works = well on that basis, but the current ports aren't always amenable to = peeling out the required information in a variety of cases.=20 This is not to say it's a bad idea - it's not, by any means. Quite the = reverse really. It's just the boundaries and limits really need to be = clear or its diving down a rabbit hole... (shuffle/split the ports to = make this easier? Does pkg-ng make it easier to find this sort of = information? Punt on it and say caveat emptor?) Gentoo's ebuilds can be just as dynamic - how does Gentoo deal with it? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 16:19:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA654106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:19:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 553C68FC0C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:19:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so3622398eek.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:19:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=kq4y1uXMCQTRideNzzmPQdjTTtadvKPBUrjIpqrY97U=; b=HgF/d6w1t5XksWmMoC+M2NiYlTBXn28Tkq+o/EefvMhFedLYfcU/3L0/C5sTdiG2JX UIU9E36p9E+lCY+lrgfqlyJlsX2jZs/elTbWqvgseD3h3bup2SqPCgrm4L+20bNY/EVP XLgaqfy4r5UAzhj97ydZKkSwE3lst++kq2MeZT/939cR2qy2E0dmb16BxgVMytH0L6F/ GWUbNteUWvtHDIi8l6y7vPgmImdZ7m6hUBg736MTirj/2vdTdmQrTN0MRG7l7mqfiBkK vk/KOBS3MmlxrqaxspQ8kD39gAHNyblGiEUB4yqaYkzMMeDs3D6f0iOJytXZ/lUDaYTr adVg== Received: by 10.14.101.138 with SMTP id b10mr6522418eeg.56.1341505174221; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfleuriot-at-hi-media.com ([83.167.62.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a16sm64250508eeg.0.2012.07.05.09.19.32 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FF5BE93.4010509@my.gd> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:19:31 +0200 From: Damien Fleuriot User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <62039A45-92E4-4588-988D-6DF39D7B01E5@bsdimp.com> <201207050922.25815.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlkcNn51yuHvUWkwlY/GULiKq4WhnwEpV0/ngoqL6StqLOTQggObUr+E5w0z9ZH3DAKChtw Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:19:36 -0000 On 7/5/12 11:03 AM, Doug Barton wrote: > On 07/05/2012 01:28, Peter Jeremy wrote: >> On 2012-Jul-05 09:22:25 +0200, Jonathan McKeown >> wrote: >>> As for the idea that Linux refugees need extra help to migrate, >>> that's the sort of thinking that led to things like: >>> >>> alias dir=ls >> >> Whilst we're on the subject, can we please also have #define BEGIN >> { #define END } wired into gcc to help people migrating from Algol >> and Pascal. > > Um, this kind of elitist crap really isn't helpful. > > If the new feature gets created, and you don't want to use it, turn it > off. No problem. > > I appreciate the people who've spoken up as to why they wouldn't want > to use it, but I haven't seen anything yet that says "having this > feature is a universally bad idea." > > Doug > As long as it can be toggled off system-wide, persistently (sysctl?), I can't see the harm in bringing that in. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 16:22:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DDE1065672 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:22:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C18D8FC1A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:22:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so3623362eek.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:22:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=CY9kxIMWX8c5YzRZvrBT4IGHShBdgVR+yBpcQSrKG5A=; b=XanAvuzqLs/QUmQTHx2LS57/QkWd/6ImI8RB8oX2cOD1oP963cTLq0ePJxEdDCO9za n0ousMpOP0/d2BHkVD/q2Ll0xYbpOZ35iPPBPNQOSrnNeu/+n6V0aZdDhWn7fvCvzeND BIDA9aa+X313+jpgOsXG2VnHI69wkZXJyHWjxnlRiCMleKRfdPsxqbMhD8p7vBS5Lb9b 2UNI4JCe95IYQUF/xjEBTZ5hfCorse4EzyOlk6dqcbf+OwzbVJlJ84N7TnGCjN+cNl1Q BMBF3+9jgHppolL/cT8yjgoOW4DnZcSyHspqWpy6A2ZYBCYEW6Oo24Mst6YSepTpqCVI MTSA== Received: by 10.14.37.2 with SMTP id x2mr6568420eea.72.1341505329035; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfleuriot-at-hi-media.com ([83.167.62.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m46sm64225753eeh.9.2012.07.05.09.22.00 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:22:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FF5BF27.2030609@my.gd> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:21:59 +0200 From: Damien Fleuriot User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> In-Reply-To: <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnV6OB7X1LYHtjMg1IVVQRilSp/d7qB4CVOrb1DEKkn6F5h8rdkzc3SPdBxgWVvwZFynTsK Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:22:10 -0000 On 7/5/12 12:15 PM, Jonathan McKeown wrote: > On Thursday 05 July 2012 11:03:32 Doug Barton wrote: >> On 07/05/2012 01:28, Peter Jeremy wrote: >>> On 2012-Jul-05 09:22:25 +0200, Jonathan McKeown >>> >>> wrote: >>>> As for the idea that Linux refugees need extra help to migrate, >>>> that's the sort of thinking that led to things like: >>>> >>>> alias dir=ls >>> >>> Whilst we're on the subject, can we please also have #define BEGIN >>> { #define END } wired into gcc to help people migrating from Algol >>> and Pascal. >> >> Um, this kind of elitist crap really isn't helpful. > > It was intended to be a slightly humorous response to your original question: > >> why would you *not* want a feature that tells you what to >> install if you type a command that doesn't exist on the system? > > rather than ``elitist crap'' (as was the deliberately the over-the-top > comparison to Clippy). I don't think suggesting that someone who wants to use > a system learn how it works is elitist; and I don't object to optional tools > to help them ``settle in'' (but see below). > > You might also notice that I made a suggestion that might help people > migrating - namely some adaptation of the Unix Rosetta Stone in the Handbook > so that people who know how to do something in Linux are quickly guided to > the best way to do it in FreeBSD (and perhaps vice versa). > >> If the new feature gets created, and you don't want to use it, turn it >> off. No problem. > > No. I think this is entirely the wrong way round. If the new feature is > created and you want it, turn it on. Don't make me turn off something I > didn't want in the first place. Given the choice between a system in which I > switch on whatever I need, versus one which has absolutely everything > switched on where I spend ages switching it all off/deinstalling it all, I > know which I prefer - and others have made similar comments. > I have to disagree here. This feature is also intended to make things easier for new and/or inexperienced users. Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose. I for one wouldn't mind it being enabled by default as long as I can disable it via a sysctl or rc.conf variable. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 16:37:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF5A3106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:37:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C8708FC0A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:37:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q65Gb7qC003827; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:37:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q65Gb7EI003824; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:37:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:37:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Jonathan Anderson In-Reply-To: <2336980A-5AAB-4D45-8177-71609A7B31F7@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> <2336980A-5AAB-4D45-8177-71609A7B31F7@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:37:08 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:37:13 -0000 >> >> are you serious that linux distros have such a think now? >> I didn't use linux for a long time and no plan to use it, but you are joking isn't it? > > They do, and it's actually very useful in two cases: no it isn't. unless it would be extra keypress for that. i don't want to be treated as a moron just as when i use google search with javascript active. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 16:38:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 558EC1065672 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:38:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9BBB8FC14 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:38:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q65Gckmq003839; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:38:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q65GckLI003836; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:38:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:38:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Damien Fleuriot In-Reply-To: <4FF5BF27.2030609@my.gd> Message-ID: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <4FF5BF27.2030609@my.gd> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:38:46 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:38:50 -0000 > inexperienced users. > > Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose. so is FreeBSD future direction to be moron-OS just like linux is now, or is that just another stupid idea on that forum that came and... will pass? Quite important. There are still people that want normal OS. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 16:40:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFE54106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:40:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@dataix.net) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CE088FC15 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:40:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so8949235ghb.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:40:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=ikGGj/jUGExTvPZiwa7u1ppZDMWniDV3h52akPgjKE8=; b=ZwMEhzvYvSwozn33gvFqWh1+2SySbH5bPg+bnSPkxPvCP5syT3Vvuqur4Aej1TuDmW EOZn30arExJGhmWmbQyknVQwprR+j0UUUA5CQEA+uv0GlfpPrWdUCyP1pVx2g/Eszsi0 eE+9iTKoGqFGqhjkKc7u84vkaje3XM3jD4nyk= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-gm-message-state; bh=ikGGj/jUGExTvPZiwa7u1ppZDMWniDV3h52akPgjKE8=; b=poeLlrMmJXXONNsojRS8r/C9lImyC/UgDxu5XFwZMfsgiZhsSIgSCbMomS3Wm0yXGe CnZTnt1/a5MDakYmwT83YutLQnhmY/NzHQC6S4QS5bxzCpoBbOPWlfkOW/iJ3rg8OSDo hoQuL08Muz81oTdQg3+2zUQP6cp9fagxnLbwvBNQ1YPkMGzzUmY3FA4P66JUIEk6W+DI cLCGgUnoGH8/kWzlslrRR00FvHcTq0DJN4bAAqaVuYkpVkoVoM6Y9nR+f2NyXipcCoBC FAxix+8MZhEtcABoAeCwPzbfggVRGjghNJh7kZoT3IiZA50A2f3pMkuIWMYZUhrp77We RHag== Received: by 10.42.145.7 with SMTP id d7mr13807157icv.45.1341506438234; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (adsl-108-73-115-46.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net. [108.73.115.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k4sm671796igq.16.2012.07.05.09.40.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q65GeYNf042388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:40:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Received: (from jh@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q65GeXvL042387; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:40:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:40:33 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal To: Thomas Sparrevohn Message-ID: <20120705164033.GA35340@DataIX.net> References: <4FF4CB54.1060004@FreeBSD.org> <4ff583e1.p5DKDON6DEU+CQRo%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <201207051032.16451.Thomas.Sparrevohn@btinternet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201207051032.16451.Thomas.Sparrevohn@btinternet.com> X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnhoN2OlVIfPXz6nsDNozV47btkJnX7pgZCLgO+cRq85g/TcDOMELjfkkMFJ5hmFBq1M/Vc Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install-prompt for missing features (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:40:44 -0000 On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 10:32:16AM +0100, Thomas Sparrevohn wrote: > On Thursday 05 Jul 2012 13:09:05 perryh@pluto.rain.com wrote: > > Doug Barton wrote: > > > ... something like this would be *really* valuable to ease > > > the transition for people coming from a Linux background. > > > > I'm sure some folks here would count this as a reason *not* > > to provide it >:-> > > > > I think the idea is quite silly all in all - There are 23k Ports a lot of > which will have executeables - so everytime I make a typo - a database with - > say 30,000-40,000 elements and give me a list back of things I could install > from say the russian ports - I don't speak russian. I suggest looking at > extending locate(1) or apropos(1) instead. Installed as a default in the shell > I would count as a major reason to abandon FreeBSD. > I would consider abandoning a OS that you originally installed for its functionality pretty silly but hey ... its a free world. And so is diabling things or choosing a optin. -- - (2^(N-1)) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 16:45:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15563106568E for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:45:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCE258FC18 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:45:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so3631682eek.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:45:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=wKc2+0lh67xymuy5K6LkP7IQGkAeUwBTdb2ENCtWYZQ=; b=EVmmziSRizVHEG5oa7XLmLJxHsXVZClyVIhAI+JBVQEY7t+Dqb89RRHvOHvKF/mRQY cz3CtgqOOLZ69ahcdPGYEoQOUpbulPnbFHgRieCV8DeoOGws+2smt938j8AlucvA2aSK DJ1NHOPAVraHCu8O9qhWrGLeT80LOeieuObdE6x38uwgJY2a1jp9qYWaVOsTo9LyJjIW 1tN89aeJCo4cQmrilZ3wXX5274Jau/FWR/823IG9QPw5/sx1JQvlYcGBEU7y2G0oB4nS g8wcK+i0SwyeCPevD2UJocvzNUxOtfJUEXhCQcR/kT3VrgrJ7wXszbESNg0bqJLfOWq+ qLKA== Received: by 10.14.101.9 with SMTP id a9mr6009765eeg.143.1341506702772; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfleuriot-at-hi-media.com ([83.167.62.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p41sm64418134eef.5.2012.07.05.09.45.01 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FF5C48C.9030106@my.gd> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:45:00 +0200 From: Damien Fleuriot User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <4FF5BF27.2030609@my.gd> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlmOhXuwYoWzzEBB3WRCkLGsBiFRf7N46vFVBLPAOvFrwdob0zjGlih1olbM8emRLsrm2ht Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:45:05 -0000 On 7/5/12 6:38 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> inexperienced users. >> >> Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose. > > so is FreeBSD future direction to be moron-OS just like linux is now, or > is that just another stupid idea on that forum that came and... will pass? > > Quite important. There are still people that want normal OS. Just because you don't like the idea doesn't make it stupid, and just because it comes from linux doesn't make it bad. The "-p" flag to netstat comes from linux and I would dearly like to see it on BSD, for example. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 16:47:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13733106566B for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:47:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@dataix.net) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC4EF8FC08 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:47:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhfs35 with SMTP id s35so2671419yhf.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:47:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding :in-reply-to; bh=oguhsy8Xt4ZLl3njCLWp3xUdIaiRjPRbvog6BfNqQhg=; b=XgLpO+P3QxbJ9Hz67nJF+KYsonePqhHPon8g4VXitP21mykLKTwUs5UCVANBEIvP8t xXZCmj//h+6v9O/Z4VBwTaOaxmmMDPwQv3b9TQAcOk8n8n9boCf58HipRPf1Iz7h6Miy ujj5O1xbxDerBDWgkwwGCy+jjyFwYhXtoikGo= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding :in-reply-to:x-gm-message-state; bh=oguhsy8Xt4ZLl3njCLWp3xUdIaiRjPRbvog6BfNqQhg=; b=is1l1LFouyxW22HtIWBiYr0FR2UsYXoD8XwX2rjoCHJlzDNNP8yZa4eZj1LV5RL8ky lgr1ju8vyD1Jrj3AFuXDYF7F81FGteEgd2cmfEX0/Z+1Z4yUeLnADowJAXUWaeZkU+TW lxTSF8j8cuUCIOobGRgQx1S1oKwRZHd/kOgLfea7LRw4JYa99Pvf4LMp4EhZGPWlCNv5 llnnqUFdystfur4thMHs4tYTDbPGVoTBQzZm6tIxSPXqkJH5cdjioVzYKmnCKcAgfnLV ksg4fF6hS56VKW3XX0t+cc0uAZ/NBpOL14ErrCu6+jw/wBB9ztDUuhlKsdmcCqWXySV5 G5uA== Received: by 10.50.182.232 with SMTP id eh8mr292619igc.48.1341506848982; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (adsl-108-73-115-46.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net. [108.73.115.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ai6sm746342igc.0.2012.07.05.09.47.27 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:47:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q65Gktrt042741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:46:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Received: (from jh@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q65GktuK042740; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:46:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:46:55 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal To: Damien Fleuriot Message-ID: <20120705164655.GB35340@DataIX.net> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF5BB56.10100@my.gd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4FF5BB56.10100@my.gd> X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmrx+W8lRP3bOAuS3lJXyryB8TiKviA84eyiulnUIRHBgzUz64FeCR2jw6KcI8PLREEFclF Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:47:30 -0000 On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 06:05:42PM +0200, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > On 7/3/12 3:36 PM, Mark Felder wrote: > > On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 07:39:34 -0500, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > > > >> > >> I don't think there will be as much whinging as you expect. Times have > >> changed. > > > > Agreed; if we need DNS in base (really, why?) > > > Because when people install a server, they expect it to be able to > resolve host names ? > > I fail to see how I'd be able to build BIND (or whatever other resolver) > from the ports tree if my server wasn't able to download the sources in > the first place. > > Using a third-party's name servers is not an option ;) And this is exactly why a base package collection of select few ports should be made and distributed in the root of a image. What I mean is a few elected "common" services that server environments use. BIND, unbound, openntpd, openospf, openbgpd, etc... fall into this category. Basicaly core networking utilities because server systems just are not the same without them. -- - (2^(N-1)) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 16:55:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C616106566C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:55:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E62AD8FC15 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:55:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcje9 with SMTP id je9so3308006bkc.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:55:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=pvHEXmoln9dKs+/QMcDgpxo6hxgsHWRH51MqSQvWXGQ=; b=0snaBzZpjmWTAGb15nWdeITphhTyl/fXXEGz+WHRqGqqXUjme3sjNW6FjEyPzPnVX9 ezdY3FMkd2XSaNcRT7bX7ijNa47uahIDfj/4uX6STA7vgWtyMaSvPgptetxTPw4jKOQB DNeu+lsn26/9JfuhSt9y5y4V5zLy4OHI9bvgwo6ZZSeka7QD/jcMOswn55ry4aFP0yOq 6BW+9g0kYxNwac4OOHj7vJbmxLYuJ5CR0zMExGRJGuHZ6cZ0kPgbqYuwzS91uhDhOh5w /U01r8ngssjWVPJNmqftY0/RUxWGdkCygMfAWvTVMBbeomJ8P3O36Q6Qhj2Qre7QSNmF Afpg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.109.166 with SMTP id ht6mr26933547lab.46.1341507350849; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.37.74 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 09:55:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FF5C48C.9030106@my.gd> References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <4FF5BF27.2030609@my.gd> <4FF5C48C.9030106@my.gd> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 09:55:50 -0700 Message-ID: From: Freddie Cash To: Damien Fleuriot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:55:52 -0000 On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > > On 7/5/12 6:38 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> inexperienced users. >>> >>> Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose. >> >> so is FreeBSD future direction to be moron-OS just like linux is now, or >> is that just another stupid idea on that forum that came and... will pass? >> >> Quite important. There are still people that want normal OS. > > > Just because you don't like the idea doesn't make it stupid, and just > because it comes from linux doesn't make it bad. > > The "-p" flag to netstat comes from linux and I would dearly like to see > it on BSD, for example. Well, technically FreeBSD's netstat already has -p (which can be used to get the same result as -t or -u on Linux). ;) And you can get the same info from "sockstat -P tcp" as Linux "netstat -tp". But, yeah, "netstat -antp" is much easier to type than "netstat -an -p tcp; sockstat -P tcp". :) -- Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:09:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E679106566C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:09:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@dataix.net) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6F048FC08 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:09:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so8989208ghb.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:09:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=mDIaND3bpQ9erGPJBIEwSblOTrlsyK1jEqJPKMk/gbk=; b=BGj8hNWHBH+WZMoFmw6CoZ6ZlXBaFlVQsHNqFRIvJMVIiVuHUXbxXb7JS9+jLX904z G6dl1hoeqK747cOX1ltBIHCT/caOFA/pvfJVCOWA+Y+8jtekr5JE2TBANTaF79oVzEas WWQ1OxVRkT8FG2ccsSvAWayKbGqsmYTqnsB9w= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-gm-message-state; bh=mDIaND3bpQ9erGPJBIEwSblOTrlsyK1jEqJPKMk/gbk=; b=B8uh7jOXYkIxq4Kd8iGlVXpWcVF0FVr6gKEeaIBjIOvcQPZuFW0SxiFrjH38ADIHSs g2HKA9XhlGW1akleUQs9GxQMHE7XlVD0UNILr5ttbgn7zy8v9NatZpKhD35L8vlljYVP 1hqOP4HyQMV+hvMnUwoRfjZ2pXGHw7jiD1g5eLKl0Mh+LOoR0p5HCwWJc7RBTMxe9MLZ 3M9o+3JEEK77Rb+zt9yulCwwR3QK/T8FRLtiYmkFn5zz6FQq/vOkUS5MBIPQJszEz8qI ij1YUn3qShqP7zlJbImRkZ4k+X9ekzvFds2pZ53O1exlQJ+jh5XXC6g4+aTFa0lM/eRl 3yUA== Received: by 10.50.179.74 with SMTP id de10mr312347igc.61.1341508188822; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (adsl-108-73-115-46.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net. [108.73.115.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ay5sm397900igb.15.2012.07.05.10.09.47 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q65H9iIC043818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Jul 2012 13:09:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Received: (from jh@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q65H9i80043817; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 13:09:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 13:09:44 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal To: Damien Fleuriot Message-ID: <20120705170944.GA43725@DataIX.net> References: <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <62039A45-92E4-4588-988D-6DF39D7B01E5@bsdimp.com> <201207050922.25815.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <4FF5BE93.4010509@my.gd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FF5BE93.4010509@my.gd> X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmiD5dzx/T955VVJHKFmCg6IbGWxYDxse4+IUbCWywo/hp8F8LwZ+Pz1gkjU08wP6w+dzEr Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:09:50 -0000 On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 06:19:31PM +0200, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > On 7/5/12 11:03 AM, Doug Barton wrote: > > On 07/05/2012 01:28, Peter Jeremy wrote: > >> On 2012-Jul-05 09:22:25 +0200, Jonathan McKeown > >> wrote: > >>> As for the idea that Linux refugees need extra help to migrate, > >>> that's the sort of thinking that led to things like: > >>> > >>> alias dir=ls > >> > >> Whilst we're on the subject, can we please also have #define BEGIN > >> { #define END } wired into gcc to help people migrating from Algol > >> and Pascal. > > > > Um, this kind of elitist crap really isn't helpful. > > > > If the new feature gets created, and you don't want to use it, turn it > > off. No problem. > > > > I appreciate the people who've spoken up as to why they wouldn't want > > to use it, but I haven't seen anything yet that says "having this > > feature is a universally bad idea." > > > > Doug > > > > > As long as it can be toggled off system-wide, persistently (sysctl?), I > can't see the harm in bringing that in. Haha sysctl... thats going quite a bit too far into the system for this. -- - (2^(N-1)) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:15:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C20E51065674 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:15:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-qa0-f47.google.com (mail-qa0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F91D8FC20 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:15:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qabg1 with SMTP id g1so4132895qab.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:15:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=LutrbNfYO+sMBzlXlAime0YFiDts/BrKrJv4Mad7UMo=; b=hrcljLOgRVgwnADaQE7P/fCg5lQRfZh+9PQ0fgCMk9ovGvA5HKPzXsRSX1WQSK4AQp VcgNBQqyooERw7LwrZJm0SdTzh4x4ccvvsNDgGKG7WvAssUVKOfFrN1M9mIts+bPP+/9 0N9+cGszoRnaoUoiuo1uZLOrx4cUhFwiAvFjtuB2Hm8Bf4WknTu2T+tnh4gCP5ZcZzi7 bDhQzgfEqPtCh/OiObBSLiurO/MO3RttujgTveMqp51oDS1yLNwmFtmuzVbhWW3czFvm 6LX4Yqzq5weG9onOskPsHOb2ddcYYPT39OZrKWHUpNQEDE8QYAePaogkAdOBlTutLcNF YMPQ== Received: by 10.224.181.70 with SMTP id bx6mr34580804qab.54.1341508524540; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bhuda.mired.org (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bh13sm46747951qab.21.2012.07.05.10.15.23 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 13:15:18 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: Jason Hellenthal Message-ID: <20120705131518.06898223@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <20120705170944.GA43725@DataIX.net> References: <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <62039A45-92E4-4588-988D-6DF39D7B01E5@bsdimp.com> <201207050922.25815.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <4FF5BE93.4010509@my.gd> <20120705170944.GA43725@DataIX.net> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm6hhIoyKFG8gEHtlk2T5bCDDBOc1O587hJtRThJ1vZ/ZatKbT4VbOf1ekLiLpu7KKczhN1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:15:25 -0000 On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 13:09:44 -0400 Jason Hellenthal wrote: > On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 06:19:31PM +0200, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > > As long as it can be toggled off system-wide, persistently (sysctl?), I > > can't see the harm in bringing that in. > Haha sysctl... thats going quite a bit too far into the system for this. Yup. A sysctl (or rc.conf variable) intended specifically to control the behavior of shells is an even worse idea than turning this nanny behavior on for everyone. http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:17:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95BB4106566C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:17:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBC9C8FC17 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:17:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q65HHkFO003960; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 19:17:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q65HHkWc003957; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 19:17:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 19:17:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Damien Fleuriot In-Reply-To: <4FF5C48C.9030106@my.gd> Message-ID: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <4FF5BF27.2030609@my.gd> <4FF5C48C.9030106@my.gd> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:17:46 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:17:50 -0000 >> so is FreeBSD future direction to be moron-OS just like linux is now, or >> is that just another stupid idea on that forum that came and... will pass? >> >> Quite important. There are still people that want normal OS. > > > Just because you don't like the idea doesn't make it stupid, and just not just because :) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:18:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9931065706 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:18:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EBCB8FC19 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:18:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so17179120obb.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:18:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=QmY/HLk4k0jRu2x8DZ4aGXSJR/ElCyVmkZD+zvvfXlg=; b=eO+T+5g/ja76O6WQGplUgJVsQaY2HBdB2kEgSS8xdQWmx/uO/Fvj9pjsPOXQ1Cd6Zt kjNllOaIgoecEH8vog7D1kRi6sx8LaKf1H8RXG67J/8g9GfgHVzn+sp0Glo46MXnkYkA pm+JvuaXxB6PlYen5KAEdxs8erMl2xZdOS81oCeTTWBSjr92AKNZFrTBK3epHZKFMciO 2dIIa+tbDrzQKm9mT+PwE6JrVYXh1cdAAXjMS9AAUMc8A90H4pRc7yhSE2K3u5RwtBrD a7gkDla1iuO1jWIT/wd3gdE6kIiqA8ZNTK06o/xdabIOYk0LeFIxUgUqMMq/PcWHN+Nx 5AUg== Received: by 10.182.146.84 with SMTP id ta20mr21971873obb.19.1341508688030; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.101.53] ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g1sm15085130oei.4.2012.07.05.10.18.06 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:18:07 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <4FF5C48C.9030106@my.gd> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:18:05 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <4FF5BF27.2030609@my.gd> <4FF5C48C.9030106@my.gd> To: Damien Fleuriot X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm4REy9giY+0TgxHi1jn02dhTxE2YvjI30W+UQoUVGzBBUnlL+Z4/0lNttDNZkHIthCOfDq Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:18:08 -0000 On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Damien Fleuriot wrote: >=20 > On 7/5/12 6:38 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> inexperienced users. >>>=20 >>> Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose. >>=20 >> so is FreeBSD future direction to be moron-OS just like linux is now, = or >> is that just another stupid idea on that forum that came and... will = pass? >>=20 >> Quite important. There are still people that want normal OS. >=20 >=20 > Just because you don't like the idea doesn't make it stupid, and just > because it comes from linux doesn't make it bad. Both true. However, if the database lookups took a long time, or had a = high overhead to maintain, then it would be stupid to have on by = default. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:18:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F7AE1065700 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:18:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA2DF8FC1A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:18:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcje9 with SMTP id je9so3332745bkc.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:18:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=vLj4HxWZQpug+i2Et3hjUGbbyIAGUx9l1Pb3Y1VnCDA=; b=VhpquGgMBGdWvdF8w+0PECMQRiVSyyaXKm9K4KzsbQ/avAUNs0/m8001bw3I56s10e cV8lGV9Ud/TeU1BxNCihRFJ3QuX2CS0RPOB2oHyN0Rfk0WSorY9u7BxXYydirc9ypBev Idh0g5FpZySXWZvZKA23lfM/7VL1/Ou8UxVc8gmcU+2vy6P1BTHGlNePxnj570KXJ6IZ IC8RWH3dBLYKW9dXB3sj/fOzpxPg4jXHUj7kk9DTbaemSwvg5B7rbAUsoL82HWnv45Vx lI2o7vCTap1uAb74d4S2MMizv/ordvRjdLo+e5yrXaC9Zh/gp5TKy/X6GnN2ZQsfpcZD lY7w== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.152.13 with SMTP id e13mr3162838bkw.46.1341508690783; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.49.87 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.49.87 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:18:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> <2336980A-5AAB-4D45-8177-71609A7B31F7@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:18:10 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Jonathan Anderson , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:18:12 -0000 On Jul 5, 2012 5:37 PM, "Wojciech Puchar" wrote: >>> >>> >>> are you serious that linux distros have such a think now? >>> I didn't use linux for a long time and no plan to use it, but you are joking isn't it? >> >> >> They do, and it's actually very useful in two cases: > > > no it isn't. unless it would be extra keypress for that. > > i don't want to be treated as a moron just as when i use google search with javascript active. > You'd fall into the category of 'I would disable that feature' then. Since that is the case, you should stop commenting, now, and simply disable it if/when it comes out. Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:18:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B45B1065880 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:18:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AD3D8FC0C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:18:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q65HIUIk003972; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 19:18:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q65HIUnh003969; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 19:18:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 19:18:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Jason Hellenthal In-Reply-To: <20120705170944.GA43725@DataIX.net> Message-ID: References: <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <62039A45-92E4-4588-988D-6DF39D7B01E5@bsdimp.com> <201207050922.25815.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <4FF5BE93.4010509@my.gd> <20120705170944.GA43725@DataIX.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:18:31 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:18:38 -0000 >> can't see the harm in bringing that in. > > Haha sysctl... thats going quite a bit too far into the system for this. that's just a sign of complete lack of understanding IMHO. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:19:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EAED1065677 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:19:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 991298FC08 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:19:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q65HJjLg003981; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 19:19:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q65HJia4003978; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 19:19:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 19:19:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mike Meyer In-Reply-To: <20120705131518.06898223@bhuda.mired.org> Message-ID: References: <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <62039A45-92E4-4588-988D-6DF39D7B01E5@bsdimp.com> <201207050922.25815.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <4FF5BE93.4010509@my.gd> <20120705170944.GA43725@DataIX.net> <20120705131518.06898223@bhuda.mired.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:19:45 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:19:51 -0000 >> Haha sysctl... thats going quite a bit too far into the system for this. > > Yup. A sysctl (or rc.conf variable) intended specifically to control > the behavior of shells is an even worse idea than turning this nanny > behavior on for everyone. some people work hard to turn FreeBSD to "mainstream" (==useless) piece of software. Not first time, but no great "success" achieved for now. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:21:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A37281065674 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:21:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-qa0-f54.google.com (mail-qa0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 404648FC24 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:21:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qaat11 with SMTP id t11so4142725qaa.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:21:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=eqOA026/A8EJaCXpYjtG2NyW4qiV1Oi4kKlbVyGND/8=; b=j5Wf3Z/+GSuken9R9hwNAJWMOap5DRBc1Lp+IYUE5mVa/qKIsHQ7JyFNXSX7JBrQ1+ 6YEmL4kEcFopX1189UxK5jeUslgH91EilmpYpJ6wu6tpuMbYF/zqZJb12VFPiEzpQW+8 DS1nR5MOYsAc2dEI51JlYa5DjSXhJOzWjBBajSuu6R4BuRa1rOd6nIX4iE1v33b9bt11 VSCsfDuNp9UCWwTFS8QzaYNQza1uJpa56JZcQRdcJfK2NOhr+MPe9XE1DGotOZETgHFy vXxcPcRqN5CvN4qiU+ahEzW6Zdywm/hZW4hUDfUxExpl899RU4ct6TLzU8kBa598/d9E E5Fw== Received: by 10.224.189.17 with SMTP id dc17mr47149607qab.14.1341508915425; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bhuda.mired.org (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id cz12sm46751562qab.5.2012.07.05.10.21.54 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 13:21:50 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: Message-ID: <20120705132150.19f456b1@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <2336980A-5AAB-4D45-8177-71609A7B31F7@gmail.com> References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> <2336980A-5AAB-4D45-8177-71609A7B31F7@gmail.com> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlutLUqHqgzP4q2Xt3CBNl+uoljvCUqe2Ku09Ym/gEZ+lCKYKMaNqd6YyvqTZEVzfl39fLu Cc: Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:21:56 -0000 On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 15:57:09 +0100 Jonathan Anderson wrote: > They do, and it's actually very useful in two cases: > 1. new users =E2=80=94 "my friend told me to try out latex, but when I ty= pe 'latex' nothing happens! oh wait, that's how I make it work" > 2. confusingly-named packages. on FreeBSD: >=20 > [nick ~]$ latex > zsh: command not found: latex > [nick ~]$ pkg search latex | awk '{print $1}' > latex-chapterfolder-2.0.20051124 [long list elided] > Compare to bash on Ubuntu: >=20 > [jra40@kent ~]$ latex > The program 'latex' is currently not installed. You can install it by ty= ping: > sudo apt-get install texlive-latex-base Nobody has argued that making the ports collection easier to search would be a bad idea. I get: bhuda% portsearch -f 'bin/latex$' Port: latex2e-2003.12_1 Info: TeX macro package Path: /usr/ports/print/latex Files: bin/latex Port: teTeX-base-3.0_20 Info: Thomas Esser's distribution of TeX & friends (binaries) Path: /usr/ports/print/teTeX-base Files: bin/latex 2 ports, 2 files bhuda%=20 Hmm. Seems like we have two different versions of latex in the ports - and probably packages - tree. In fact, if you want this functionality in the base, providing the search functionality as an external tool is a crucial step. I'd be surprised if anybody object to that being added to base. > The command line shouldn't have to be a scary place for new users. Nor should it be an annoying place for old users. New users are important. But old users are the ones who make contributions. http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:27:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 618D91065689 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:27:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB9028FC12 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:27:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so5725808qcs.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:27:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=4RlplIZcgD8XKDuzuta8F0iXaechGvr0ewBrGS4mYfk=; b=jfnUgZgpIw/7YvIoMKUAUcmdvZmve7Ijm848Pby8+dzVsMU59xYZZHlvuuaFrBgODz eUyqmNoBkDLn3GcsbJhyABxgAkrc5GLxXyPxNWDUpPlFDPjaLm3MBqWnsxhzI/KlAZRb xAZKjdmuC/Rofq6rhXyWoG/XVZCVQ/0NOfPu2D0PG4Y5dqanc6R3Q26zM75C5qFUQPt+ l6QWKAPYrzpilUcTbRLtCJ3ArOG3tHhqkYkIyPBH8gWCHB9lGGkq3rAbjD7+jHh5cWrP ITCWgk+2mP7DSKGxuoFn8F7aoKq+dgpfS3Bepd+88w5YNLCP5WVXbr9+lbIrUKpgqhOL pCiQ== Received: by 10.229.111.84 with SMTP id r20mr8236083qcp.106.1341509267006; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bhuda.mired.org (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o7sm34103373qaq.17.2012.07.05.10.27.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 13:26:27 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: Message-ID: <20120705132627.2732f24c@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> <2336980A-5AAB-4D45-8177-71609A7B31F7@gmail.com> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnQGkJYpQcIAwCTbmRrutJqLvDWw1GPquYzvpKHmNMRTsVJ8ntAFj8+0XxyhHY4rAZhVZrT Cc: Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:27:48 -0000 On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:18:10 +0100 Chris Rees wrote: > You'd fall into the category of 'I would disable that feature' then. > > Since that is the case, you should stop commenting, now, and simply disable > it if/when it comes out. The claim is that it needs to be on for new users if it's going to do any good. No problem. That is *not* the same thing as "on by default." On by default implies that you're turning it on for everyone, which is going to surprise and annoy a lot of users. I'd say that would be a fail. You need a way to turn it on for new users *without* turning it on for everyone. Like, for instance, adding it to /usr/share/skel. http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:31:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB733106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:31:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A7738FC14 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:31:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so17196784obb.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:31:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=WKxPLjdfjwyYTDAKa2kKp0A9AwJ3kpdpTi5qWMMsgY0=; b=yiVP5os21GSlRUVm2B1S5FHZFAZB4NnzgSHNFl5qE+fIFSzXZQ/OsVbg2H5DJdKpmL nQmO2CHva0+C/AMZaYYNa/YT/wHoLl7oFYIvWHgtiAD+kkj1MNdW0hk/tbf4N8TTf+Zw Pc8sSDpzFwSCyvS8i3pw4xKgPtI5m9jHiHm4/NGyzFEzv9GJ+Wd/te2rzhvW+W/7pC78 VvPQKogNVPhIYR49p8jTkUeXR+KbxoigvitcOCdrQhR5RGirhkQMGEjQHiNtCirRO2FP DrJub190kzu75oqV1NNPothB1dHNfFTW4sllrKWXjfM01JDDaHplv9o9GSi/mirPX3e+ gfkA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.2.99 with SMTP id 3mr27573557oet.20.1341509477853; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.84.7 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:31:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <4FF5BF27.2030609@my.gd> <4FF5C48C.9030106@my.gd> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:31:17 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Warner Losh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:31:18 -0000 On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > >> >> On 7/5/12 6:38 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>>> inexperienced users. >>>> >>>> Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose. >>> >>> so is FreeBSD future direction to be moron-OS just like linux is now, or >>> is that just another stupid idea on that forum that came and... will pass? >>> >>> Quite important. There are still people that want normal OS. >> >> >> Just because you don't like the idea doesn't make it stupid, and just >> because it comes from linux doesn't make it bad. > > Both true. However, if the database lookups took a long time, or had a high overhead to maintain, then it would be stupid to have on by default. Here's a *random* thought to consider. This seems like a feature that FreeNAS/PC-BSD/etc (Linux/Windows/other OS convert) type thing might want -- so maybe the feature should exist (but be off) in FreeBSD and exist (and be on) in custom FreeBSD distros where users aren't necessarily expected to know FreeBSD. -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:34:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F3D0106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:34:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivier@gid0.org) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DEA08FC0C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:34:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so15156691lbo.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:34:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=jlf4dPIidioVx3+me2uN1ziCRehhApMROX5jlRIr1H4=; b=mP6XIyAvChKfsrX0qfHWY0WWuqTDheH/48uwcpZg5yajDCzbyDOkAsHwoC0CVTvlI/ H5okL58vjGNe1Gv+ZplGMk7rG0AtSkXS2jEBclQUzo65i3G2YxcgLG8c1wteKXDv2xbv ma7TZ7gnhoRalVONJowDDynzVqI/5eEn8UGG6q9AMLc4YUUB06S0TQ60BW8HgIaIsz5Z Vc4RPHWeUZkJiquAGuJDZZEjrp910AYVFMLKD8qq28FWz3OftzKjY4rB+sAXmNqeckLG WHju/Lnvu7nhW98L47EqMVqvOE+04UeARJ5kTrwaIf6znO38bj5SG6J8StLWK+2vk85m L62g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.84.168 with SMTP id a8mr12240803lbz.92.1341509678311; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:34:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.100.68 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:34:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <4FF5BF27.2030609@my.gd> <4FF5C48C.9030106@my.gd> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 19:34:38 +0200 Message-ID: From: Olivier Smedts To: Warner Losh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk8tTb5DxlZ6kQ8nbG1tNId+vZaeteLTNia1VW3NbBG8lh8mxugdCqMz0FBSMtuN0zRB6V8 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:34:40 -0000 2012/7/5 Warner Losh : > > On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Damien Fleuriot wrote: >> Just because you don't like the idea doesn't make it stupid, and just >> because it comes from linux doesn't make it bad. > > Both true. However, if the database lookups took a long time, or had a high overhead to maintain, then it would be stupid to have on by default. Yes. And that's why I disagree for turning this kind of feature on by default. I "feel" when I'm under an Ubuntu (or other desktop-centric distro) shell because of the delay after trying to execute, for examble, a mis-typed command. Sometimes it takes so much time to respond that I think the command was good, and go drink a coffee. Only to find out that no, it was just bloatware running. FreeBSD is so responsive as it is. I posted "time" results in another thread, and an Ubuntu Server took half a second to respond "command not found" at the first try, and it was a multi-GHz multi-core class CPU with multi-GB of RAM and multi-hard drive on a RAID. A not so old laptop I have takes ages to lookup that database ! Wouldn't PC-BSD be a better place for that ? -- Olivier Smedts _ ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) e-mail: olivier@gid0.org - against HTML email & vCards X www: http://www.gid0.org - against proprietary attachments / \ "Il y a seulement 10 sortes de gens dans le monde : ceux qui comprennent le binaire, et ceux qui ne le comprennent pas." From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:34:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68AC2106566B for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:34:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0538FC14 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:34:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so3648532eek.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:34:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=yqrf6UOmgzlGZDgJxstwm9CRoJ6lY+grgJDp2w3XGcE=; b=YmZxZpk4tCYcfjefo9Tfj0YzKtowFWazqL8RSZ+q5J9qgLqc/Dz4B/340XEVtfEZg4 6xstsvg0OA9XbKm/b8TaptTIThri0qznLZVPelqFG3ruwpAaN6VK4GUTB7sqOjBIaUeu Xw0FbbWUYkS/hmn2642EFTdNCtcObszSMuBqyP+zdpplFcTD5fDURzN6LJsOL1qc99kY nKXFIBI4SMWLKKTFC6kWIPb25lWxEQsHh/Ve0itXLYlz6TlYhwJc/aUoAyCnd1dJI/8T vgDzwp92PsNw+j5u5sJgnHz8+PyZFgKk/kyxs6/FmELMDf/04PN7gtHWKUvdGRVCIu7F dmyQ== Received: by 10.14.127.73 with SMTP id c49mr5092728eei.22.1341509679663; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:34:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfleuriot-at-hi-media.com ([83.167.62.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q53sm64732887eef.8.2012.07.05.10.34.38 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:34:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FF5D02D.4080102@my.gd> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:34:37 +0200 From: Damien Fleuriot User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <4FF5BF27.2030609@my.gd> <4FF5C48C.9030106@my.gd> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQke0eNyw5JlxwlokYvSxEUj5fiQRHN6CoSj8Mz3c2WjLjiroHiP85ltgCvqygtZxa8yW/6T Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:34:41 -0000 On 7/5/12 7:18 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > >> >> On 7/5/12 6:38 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>>> inexperienced users. >>>> >>>> Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose. >>> >>> so is FreeBSD future direction to be moron-OS just like linux is now, or >>> is that just another stupid idea on that forum that came and... will pass? >>> >>> Quite important. There are still people that want normal OS. >> >> >> Just because you don't like the idea doesn't make it stupid, and just >> because it comes from linux doesn't make it bad. > > Both true. However, if the database lookups took a long time, or had a high overhead to maintain, then it would be stupid to have on by default. > > Warner > As a matter of fact, I for one dislike the idea of a feature that suggests packages to install. I hate it on linux, and I would hate it here as well. I would definitely be turning it off (or keeping it disabled, whichever), however I can see why some people would want such a feature and use it. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:36:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92A40106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:36:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506308FC21 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:36:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so17203898obb.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:36:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=GLXyuMNVfOjkLvfXml4JEGG93pSd/16z++sVqzga9Ao=; b=WJy24bq4tvvKoOdZ4NHS0U7SYdDZndPQWbYCuzRu76ulGcxxxQ+ALyxoKppjtvU04z BbHyCagQryPQ9+x0hXWmPhF7CVeXmxM0VSrJ0sGQbh4uJi7+msZDz83S+bquL7KfZ2VB Hj55i1zFidAaP0BtRyf5PxLdFEDwXVOz96NQAw91cDhsIqY123u/OGBPRElBMkVGUE6z 2MaPzcAw29Ut+0+JlW1bCj4qAnNqLp5kWl91wG+0xqCB2kRDN5p3F9WAAkWnHfPL9D+t BVti0s6dJOQRDnTBcQX9adGeo6+or7BRhBMROuhS8rhRyuZDGeqCkaNkpTSSAU3GNTJA yDZA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.39.39 with SMTP id m7mr22213192obk.20.1341509760899; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:36:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.84.7 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:36:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <4FF5BF27.2030609@my.gd> <4FF5C48C.9030106@my.gd> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:36:00 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Warner Losh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:36:01 -0000 On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Warner Losh wrote: >> >> On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Damien Fleuriot wrote: >> >>> >>> On 7/5/12 6:38 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>>>> inexperienced users. >>>>> >>>>> Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose. >>>> >>>> so is FreeBSD future direction to be moron-OS just like linux is now, or >>>> is that just another stupid idea on that forum that came and... will pass? >>>> >>>> Quite important. There are still people that want normal OS. >>> >>> >>> Just because you don't like the idea doesn't make it stupid, and just >>> because it comes from linux doesn't make it bad. >> >> Both true. However, if the database lookups took a long time, or had a high overhead to maintain, then it would be stupid to have on by default. > > Here's a *random* thought to consider. This seems like a feature that > FreeNAS/PC-BSD/etc (Linux/Windows/other OS convert) type thing might > want -- so maybe the feature should exist (but be off) in FreeBSD and > exist (and be on) in custom FreeBSD distros where users aren't > necessarily expected to know FreeBSD. And FWIW, this can exist as a *port* which is LD_PRELOADed (or use some other LD* hack) as an opt-in for a select set of shells. -Garrett PS I personally don't care about this feature on FreeBSD, but I understand how to use FreeBSD. I sometimes find it helpful on other OSes like Debian that I don't actively use all of the time. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:37:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E904F106566B; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:37:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rsimmons0@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A50B8FC15; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:37:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcbfy7 with SMTP id fy7so6887571vcb.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:37:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=W4oTQQUwk/SIkXdrMKRZ7xU4MzlZfH16B2CfFxmPa84=; b=QfTSV/2M/YjoTgQ1lM5Vv1rhWWy18LWrxCwIACZMzobXj/sBhUGuhgGNhbBfjUAylu UXsGw4o1mr3j42eCB03m8VE7hhuqlUZdzufY6sHl+fLoSi53d0cBQPHPZBFbmEtl1nwe he3s1gFmrlzrCISIpQ8l0ceKhdZnIEwzdZRAHNVeWI8FEffhmS/2SN4p71u7a5QUHDj4 EgGKeslmfNajLyoAhrEtmB87+RZZmQGlqUZB4faurfG9rkZ191z2VlL7gBUq3ys8Zueo bhFDCZQAtE32FdMkYNEvgEdG9+bCwP5Kf6SBClyWhTPVo6Hk6XG4MKJ9EcsQKJ5bp2HR PkrQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.214.139 with SMTP id ha11mr13082224vcb.16.1341509865882; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.180.168 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:37:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <86fw99p233.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <86fw99p233.fsf@ds4.des.no> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 13:37:45 -0400 Message-ID: From: Robert Simmons To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:37:47 -0000 On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 6:32 AM, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > Robert Simmons writes: >> OpenSSH 6.0p1 > > No. It doesn't build cleanly on FreeBSD (I reported two issues during > the pre-release cycle, one was fixed but the other was not), and even if > it did, it's too big a change to push through on such short notice. Understood. What about IPFilter? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:42:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D571A1065740 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:42:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94A668FC08 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:42:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so17212479obb.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:42:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=J7/AX48pWC7VH+MrFc+B7EyxM6YDDzFqiGFAGyAus5c=; b=iitxO+2YhdzS3td0dk8na3ixZ9w7V5R3vn/uFVl7fvQEJlcrJwHeykM8ECFAGsXHKW wo1xE653638yYqMJH8CSBnqm7KyZ6Y0QAgdE95OaEG3w5Nv3LiMHMdRUHbQXVHumf+h6 OTYqn8MOJYG0jxOzdpCiOWeO9VpzisjrH2YdSLA2f7t39xvNDZ0PRXtXfRgI3wSiA3xa 6OYxHbrNJEl0Z2t5g6rluB7ktCtlMHvfupacKLPQavpAmQ4pjZCauTWmcAT0qGEVWG3U LIl9yL5UAWVT40z8rGowizI8fmJcuFof85AIzgSW9zGPf+WCWMb4PixTYF86T3HLnhcT Fncw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.20.74 with SMTP id l10mr28004038oee.19.1341510131174; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:42:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.84.7 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:42:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <4FF5BF27.2030609@my.gd> <4FF5C48C.9030106@my.gd> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 10:42:11 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Warner Losh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:42:12 -0000 On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > >> >> On 7/5/12 6:38 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>>> inexperienced users. >>>> >>>> Having to enable it manually defeats its very purpose. >>> >>> so is FreeBSD future direction to be moron-OS just like linux is now, or >>> is that just another stupid idea on that forum that came and... will pass? >>> >>> Quite important. There are still people that want normal OS. >> >> >> Just because you don't like the idea doesn't make it stupid, and just >> because it comes from linux doesn't make it bad. > > Both true. However, if the database lookups took a long time, or had a high overhead to maintain, then it would be stupid to have on by default. One other thing: just because one can build ports on an ARM board or a Netbook, it probably isn't the best idea in the world to do (although I do it because I'm too lazy to setup a Tinderbox for all 5 of my FreeBSD hosts). Similarly, building a database of command to package mappings on an underspec'ed machine is probably not the wisest thing to do. Given that the data changes relatively infrequently, it seems like something that would be best generated along with packages. Or -- here's a novel thought! Figure out how Debian does it, steal the data produced with their packaging scheme, then remap the .debs to FreeBSD ports/packages! Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 17:43:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1C851065670 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:43:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jonathan.robert.anderson@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 339C68FC1E for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:43:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so8386047wgb.31 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:43:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=FxuJcMFGl9NJkb5tft3+5weyZo0s61eodyU1+XPZqQM=; b=peyGC6VDWQrlRZI9MeuIH8QDvD4XDnKSvtRG0o1a+k1T6qRvPPxjsianQ4chRyG/IN q0xnpC+co0zQ9lwE19kyIHj2AT4coU9f6ZWtSmhnFDEFBuDbqjxMbBJQK84cuJlXyukU ee7tzuFRSI/OqfGImyI7hT6uq2Gj6FUYb2ZCiHRWZ4GXbNZTeQ5FJiOH1gzZ7+EKkGR+ nYchF/OygK8ZAUSt3SWz9Ka1Hw197EJIG7pHX280PLN+ZQGNtRW07hgyTdbfFvh6vkaz EFOJImvqroVBk5ulTK8ibzjFght/Nnq9qTKs+iZ0RVdsLGN69FGlTbX4kjQncNgecFhV /P/Q== Received: by 10.180.86.106 with SMTP id o10mr1082710wiz.22.1341510201196; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c137.al.cl.cam.ac.uk (c137.al.cl.cam.ac.uk. [128.232.110.137]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id db7sm1096513wib.6.2012.07.05.10.43.19 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:43:20 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jonathan Anderson In-Reply-To: <20120705132150.19f456b1@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:43:18 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> <2336980A-5AAB-4D45-8177-71609A7B31F7@gmail.com> <20120705132150.19f456b1@bhuda.mired.org> To: Mike Meyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:52:40 +0000 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:43:22 -0000 On 5 Jul 2012, at 18:21, Mike Meyer wrote: >> The command line shouldn't have to be a scary place for new users. >=20 > Nor should it be an annoying place for old users. New users are > important. But old users are the ones who make contributions. No argument there. :) I do like the idea (Garrett's, maybe?) of providing such a tool, leaving = it off by default, making it very easy to turn on ("if you run this = command, the shell will be friendlier to you") and letting the PC-BSD = folks turn it on by default for their users. Jon -- Jonathan Anderson jonathan@FreeBSD.org http://freebsd.org/~jonathan/= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 18:06:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CFAF106566B for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:06:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell0.rawbw.com (shell0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5CB8FC0A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:06:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from eagle.yuri.org (stunnel@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by shell0.rawbw.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q65I6Fkl067896; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:06:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Message-ID: <4FF5D796.80600@rawbw.com> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:06:14 -0700 From: Yuri User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120702 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> <2336980A-5AAB-4D45-8177-71609A7B31F7@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Jonathan Anderson , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:06:24 -0000 On 07/05/2012 09:37, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > no it isn't. unless it would be extra keypress for that. > > i don't want to be treated as a moron just as when i use google search > with javascript active. I agree, this feature isn't useful on linux. In 100% of cases it got engaged for me it was a result of typo. It would be useful to have a command that finds the port name(s) by the command name when needed though. Today, for example, while searching for package that has a command 'svlc' I do 'cd /usr/ports && make search key=svlc' and it finds nothing instead of finding multimedia/vlc. make search seems to search through package names, dependency names, but not command names for some reason. Maybe this would be the reasonable feature to implement first instead of changing the missing command handlers in shells. Yuri From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 18:09:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96AC8106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:09:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4499B8FC0C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:09:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so9068650ghb.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:09:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=mQFq6hAxHnd1Ti6JzNUICMlzT9F0gwjRqNTl3zfYdyE=; b=Nl709aIvMIvehQ5Iowphhv8/emzgZMWIDJtB3Ka9mJK3mdIssYmXJRUJKfXLuD8Ehv gmoyHQcbSpnF7rRz36HQ3ReZQRjHY3fSaacu43gCFvOTWQo0Do2gjobE7unOpR4Lvv4y ZqS/VK/kn/2VrUrqDYeLW9sJ+WNY1Jeq4hV6c= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=mQFq6hAxHnd1Ti6JzNUICMlzT9F0gwjRqNTl3zfYdyE=; b=NhLN1k1eDwm2O7Jx2foeYXSIWSUAru0LcW5qHigL+Y4xYZLLVi68k4KUoNp99/GjKM cpud3HHPDQ2fXhLeWwgL826yNLEMMz0j87z6RV8pYXZtrPUQXLQBX30FIPEiVJ0WrY6H dQp/r/0yYAsmnab3Li3lyjoN4jQ2lx/9YGAKfvJNVhduwoQ6OGn8ZCEv2ZkCR4O28kjg ecF8QcU7e1zdW5kUVwJKE7VJHa0BJjpXSPOjbs00h83Rs0OdRZsukvaVJkqUEyNlrl+Q Jxv8TV5KCFn4o0ePt3YpTUflD7zZ220vSYHWCR2TOL4AEBbEcsOG9InTXmH2Ut5y90TK NB+g== Received: by 10.60.21.198 with SMTP id x6mr6028285oee.24.1341511746381; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:09:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.125.70 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:08:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> From: Eitan Adler Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:08:36 -0700 Message-ID: To: Chris Rees Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnfh6Mql9fkVenBmbtn1jMeOyxX4lfS5FUoJ2LurnOK344F4sZN7Q3HNWoaUfERilmj1Jjg Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jonathan McKeown Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:09:07 -0000 On 5 July 2012 03:28, Chris Rees wrote: > On Jul 5, 2012 11:16 AM, "Jonathan McKeown" wrote: >> >> On Thursday 05 July 2012 11:03:32 Doug Barton wrote: >> > On 07/05/2012 01:28, Peter Jeremy wrote: >> > > On 2012-Jul-05 09:22:25 +0200, Jonathan McKeown >> > > >> > > wrote: >> > >> As for the idea that Linux refugees need extra help to migrate, >> > >> that's the sort of thinking that led to things like: >> > >> >> > >> alias dir=ls >> > > >> > > Whilst we're on the subject, can we please also have #define BEGIN >> > > { #define END } wired into gcc to help people migrating from Algol >> > > and Pascal. >> > >> > Um, this kind of elitist crap really isn't helpful. >> >> It was intended to be a slightly humorous response to your original > question: >> >> > why would you *not* want a feature that tells you what to >> > install if you type a command that doesn't exist on the system? >> >> rather than ``elitist crap'' (as was the deliberately the over-the-top >> comparison to Clippy). I don't think suggesting that someone who wants to > use >> a system learn how it works is elitist; and I don't object to optional > tools >> to help them ``settle in'' (but see below). >> >> You might also notice that I made a suggestion that might help people >> migrating - namely some adaptation of the Unix Rosetta Stone in the > Handbook >> so that people who know how to do something in Linux are quickly guided to >> the best way to do it in FreeBSD (and perhaps vice versa). >> >> > If the new feature gets created, and you don't want to use it, turn it >> > off. No problem. >> >> No. I think this is entirely the wrong way round. If the new feature is >> created and you want it, turn it on. Don't make me turn off something I >> didn't want in the first place. Given the choice between a system in > which I >> switch on whatever I need, versus one which has absolutely everything >> switched on where I spend ages switching it all off/deinstalling it all, I >> know which I prefer - and others have made similar comments. > > That's crazy- this is the logic that led to our sh having tab completion > and history disabled by default for years. How many people honestly knew > it was there? The people who would benefit from this feature are the ones > who wouldn't know it was there. The system should be optimized for new users by default. Whether this means enabling or disabling a feature is feature-specific. -- Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 18:10:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 530651065677 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:10:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 158F78FC17 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:10:02 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=i29pgXX39qgD74vRLq8ae0RNrGr3wkzMUOQVUHYTw/E=; b=MsXtbKH0J7VdLIy1OWU04uzLgckVU/6B0I2Gk4idqkBkrvkWnuU/rllSFWaTrtsuIhvkSkoNCtNNrtIlIFyVUtOgjcXoxxl9akUxg6sDu7jiHKFxIP/pSBOXc59fNLXn; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SmqV4-000Abv-6U for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:10:01 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1341511792-94480-94479/5/93; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:09:52 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF5BB56.10100@my.gd> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 13:09:50 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4FF5BB56.10100@my.gd> User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:10:02 -0000 On Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:05:42 -0500, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > Using a third-party's name servers is not an option And how can you trust that your port 53 TCP/UDP traffic isn't being redirected and you're talking to the real root servers? I think you're being a bit too paranoid... From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 18:17:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F70D106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:17:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-qa0-f54.google.com (mail-qa0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F4CA8FC08 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:17:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qaat11 with SMTP id t11so4175964qaa.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:17:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=rdMWovogNKfnyOEWNRHPjAiU4fNfh2w1aKz5tY/SD4Q=; b=PCShxOxyqd5gtF2K5eqCUaVuWkpDOneBYEeLIJbyrcUmHq3tsMFnT7Q3NQ1MvsjtfH MwoJXOMv6QBo2GS3gWwVsos0tb4uHWhmIxiPQkT0ilt3xrNuENa6J5/ZEEUcD0oq6ZHM sA3GFBkPZBfJ1H1DP1vnR3USnkkqVeePnQ3AhYtNpjitWMQ1zH0l966+xzU6/2s8eMmf cMXGjEmHacNhLWHOdMr27yVgSad2WwRM0ZIW05kMkpk5YPdOiTlCM65nVQ5wNLrPXINB dJ2ZcxjQwEu74H4E/oKZfxTTy8xQTB5Pt2GMm0bWRkmV2cu7BNo56Xda66ARE0gizjS/ MToA== Received: by 10.224.187.6 with SMTP id cu6mr31346343qab.63.1341512242542; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bhuda.mired.org (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bo5sm13970083qab.1.2012.07.05.11.17.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:17:19 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: Message-ID: <20120705141719.0fa97268@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlC5Mh1IDxBJDkiZpYHPw3X07mHhDTL6QEN4fAb4W2sDTolBL6RL+iY2mdgFddD+Ju0C/Tc Cc: Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:17:23 -0000 On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:08:36 -0700 Eitan Adler wrote: > The system should be optimized for new users by default. Whether this > means enabling or disabling a feature is feature-specific. This is *not* what Unix has historically been. Historically, Unix has a history of being "expert-friendly" - because people are experts a lot longer than they are new users. If you want a Unix optimized to attract new users, there's Ubuntu. If you want a system built that way, there's Windows. The system should be optimized for experts. The environment that new users are placed in can be optimized for them. http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 18:35:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A264106566C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:35:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thomas.sparrevohn@btinternet.com) Received: from nm20-vm0.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com (nm20-vm0.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com [77.238.189.221]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C0A7A8FC0C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:35:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [77.238.189.48] by nm20.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2012 18:35:13 -0000 Received: from [212.82.108.225] by tm1.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2012 18:35:13 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1002.bt.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2012 18:35:13 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 866987.43497.bm@omp1002.bt.mail.ird.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 48721 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2012 18:35:13 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=DKIM-Signature:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:From:To:Subject:Date:User-Agent:References:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id; b=nmBMIHhedtGXtpKEzTxJAX5Zd3Bdaz5XxBeSY21k1KpuYPW2khVstV1Y1qxG6tqUgjp+k51OnXTOv4Ds/WHzZthCo1upHeta6FpBF+OGC7UPN+Bc7VKLKQR4OpEb2lWMRmfARLF+beyEnUriLhvLD/CfD6tcDL2DctqNGSsCs40= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1341513313; bh=KtZXtzJm9u7rmxw0d/jt6ILUzsLKiBF+QSZL5OVGX4Q=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:From:To:Subject:Date:User-Agent:References:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id; b=DNQe7lreXnrheR6Epk48RjyOjLjj0BfWzu3/5owi7+0i/RqIEsqit5+a2qgFKWuZE8lR4cBu7YIRPnRkhxM0F/XB/qUowZ6NbhvUL1Rfe9CMftfnjJrjLp63iwTrQ3s63i1w3p5skFqScLJvl9fmTHDz9ql1WMkt1fiX0Kjrg+8= X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: xXaiHjMVM1kVpfSQKqQj6KpmwNcSUL6xoFrYdD09mmfATxv up74KyJ8A7bL_HY6iGRZf4cjCfv5rYS94IHRO2GVtiFoiS13YpQgRpMlSatJ 0RnV5VDLuFlSQtQQsuggb0l1nGFFbEMgb.oGutW5Rtt0Wt6dYcMVEWpq8ORX S2Szi0_vWn6xlBqxwLPqmDHPEJOoT7i33XB9vvybrNjD88CLVvk25zSy6R5w _UT7ajKA0RBxZDM4astAWu40WdBsnM8g75Ie9iQNFOR3i1GrA1g4OIWlgx7X BKSwiMH_1yjNTnZYmDjCH2on0U6WwQNQFRUKhN_.iZVeMNQh6qff2AWyXpE6 SKBmVsUE274nQyoist4v4UoeZ2UlvTm4ZqCYRxPlv_F6Rs7MHsRtK3WgJ2sM 6aqYoiPZZZk_NUv9PS11SdOX4pAbXiUuFvQ2pjcp6HEMQFuHMhNo- X-Yahoo-SMTP: IZRlAYqswBDptUXTX.cYc1l2h3YNYE0xlrpi4wWl.OMHg4FYv7uDnfZx6kQf Received: from thomas-freebsd.aah-go-on.com (Thomas.Sparrevohn@86.133.211.100 with plain) by smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 05 Jul 2012 11:35:13 -0700 PDT From: Thomas Sparrevohn To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 19:33:31 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.4; amd64; ; ) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201207051933.31802.Thomas.Sparrevohn@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:35:21 -0000 I am sorry everybody I simply don't get this conversation - Implement it as a port - add it to bash/zsh/tcsh as an option - feel free - But if objective is to make a vanilla FreeBSD easier to use - I can think of 10,000 things (give or take a couple of 1000's) that would be a more wothy target. But for everybody's sake don't pollute the base system - before we know it you would argue that X11/KDE4 should be part of base as well as they make it easier to use. Principle has alway been to try things like that out as ports first and when everybody loves it move it into base (given and take the mandatory wars over copyright types etc). From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 18:51:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F8E106564A for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:51:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEFAD8FC0C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:51:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.187.76.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q65IpPLJ078815 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 19:51:25 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q65IpPLJ078815 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infracaninophile.co.uk; s=201001-infracaninophile; t=1341514285; bh=BAA4O/HNVJE1KoL9Z3Qlu+bRvz+7JmsO41fBQYhtiDo=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Cc:Content-Type: Message-ID:Mime-Version; b=MPkG9ds/Hv8uKCei1jSDYe//Yb3/rC7abPaTMazBQYSAreQ7Su+VHFcjW8R9qPJFD 533QQ5sZCv5gen8Hmy7Nx7SLjZRP/N/BPS1JKOOH0tRh3oP0TtKFt9AsnoTiEsy1Yh F5v24YzvL/nD3W+egDdPPPmkomuRKbqXqAbEMpSg= Message-ID: <4FF5E22D.9000007@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:51:25 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF5BB56.10100@my.gd> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=60AE908C Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig62B49468B54697CF6E038AD3" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.5 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_ALL,DKIM_SIGNED,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=no version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:51:29 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig62B49468B54697CF6E038AD3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/07/2012 19:09, Mark Felder wrote: > On Thu, 05 Jul 2012 11:05:42 -0500, Damien Fleuriot wrote: >=20 >> Using a third-party's name servers is not an option >=20 > And how can you trust that your port 53 TCP/UDP traffic isn't being > redirected and you're talking to the real root servers? I think you're > being a bit too paranoid... DNSSEC. That's how. Well, it doesn't stop your traffic being redirected, but it does guarantee that the data you receive is authentic. The tricky bit is ensuring that your queries don't get redirected between the stub-resolver built into libc, and whatever trusted recursive resolver does the DNSSEC validation for you. AFAIK, no operating system has a stub resolver the capability to validate DNSSEC. But that would be a really excellent enhancement if it was feasible. Cheers, Matthew PS. "Too paranoid?" That's impossible. --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate JID: matthew@infracaninophile.co.uk Kent, CT11 9PW --------------enig62B49468B54697CF6E038AD3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/14i0ACgkQ8Mjk52CukIz69wCcDAmL9gvsA1x1nNECI+SOI4fY lkUAni93kFIjGpYlW9CLUwMev+qNhI3Q =JadK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig62B49468B54697CF6E038AD3-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 18:57:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4FC91065673 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:57:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B3598FC16 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:57:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.187.76.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q65IvKFL078929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Jul 2012 19:57:21 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q65IvKFL078929 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infracaninophile.co.uk; s=201001-infracaninophile; t=1341514641; bh=0uGyihxuUnIOHdMKjWfocRgPYZ2KmT1cBOJs8BziGWw=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Message-ID:Mime-Version; b=CR+dY5zw37VFSr0Jos/dI11WipbZoowakLvAEj92eTeJskIryumJFvz2hpwO0CXx6 qzDx/gifXpu6/HzyDtMfgfUkV8ykmAvkhwnRehMaels0pr+gS5XH641q6TCyR+W+a7 huBnY44bNOlWyCDkDpVSDdb6PEx7R0OxRI5gph1s= Message-ID: <4FF5E390.9090205@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:57:20 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yuri References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> <2336980A-5AAB-4D45-8177-71609A7B31F7@gmail.com> <4FF5D796.80600@rawbw.com> In-Reply-To: <4FF5D796.80600@rawbw.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=60AE908C Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigF39DE2E711923C758E1C475B" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.5 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_ALL,DKIM_SIGNED,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=no version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: Jonathan Anderson , Wojciech Puchar , Mike Meyer , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:57:26 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigF39DE2E711923C758E1C475B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/07/2012 19:06, Yuri wrote: > It would be useful to have a command that finds the port name(s) by the= > command name when needed though. > Today, for example, while searching for package that has a command > 'svlc' I do 'cd /usr/ports && make search key=3Dsvlc' and it finds noth= ing > instead of finding multimedia/vlc. make search seems to search through > package names, dependency names, but not command names for some reason.= make search uses the INDEX, and that doesn't contain any information about the files installed by ports. Building a file index might be possible, but it would be several times the size of the existing INDEX and take correspondingly longer to generate. Also, you'ld probably want it as a sqlite database or BDB file for performance, rather than plain text. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate JID: matthew@infracaninophile.co.uk Kent, CT11 9PW --------------enigF39DE2E711923C758E1C475B Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/145AACgkQ8Mjk52CukIy0lgCfRBxCB/EatupxbgLAGDc7Kqf4 WLUAnjM3aUT6wZENJ70YLoIVJxCkC8iH =aZ3B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigF39DE2E711923C758E1C475B-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 20:13:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC7DA1065672 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 20:13:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from mailout-us.mail.com (mailout-us.gmx.com [74.208.5.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B5C48FC14 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 20:13:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 14921 invoked by uid 0); 5 Jul 2012 20:12:58 -0000 Received: from 67.206.186.210 by rms-us015 with HTTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:12:54 -0400 From: "Dieter BSD" Message-ID: <20120705201256.298420@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Authenticated: #74169980 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GMX-UID: H5CHb/YV3zOlNR3dAHAhThd+IGRvbwCS Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 20:13:05 -0000 > As long as it can be toggled off system-wide, persistently (sysctl?), I > can't see the harm in bringing that in. It violates the Unix Philosophy. "Make each program do one thing well. To do a new job, build afresh rather than complicate old programs by adding new features." http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch01s06.html From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 20:47:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 465991065670 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 20:47:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1985A8FC12 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 20:47:47 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Date:From:Mime-Version:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=McaTZ/tdgeKGgH/5a0+ilzNY8INLHLIyaLsq3xfy5vQ=; b=MckC6rc0ilcH/1g0zKLek8qroYgW4gAugi2nc8zcs6wNzzL8uipUAXeDHCueHYAHHXmLoDmA6PIvpQs9xsL1TYZPVDfdTbtYZH1HWWvA5Pc0PWi8ZjjfH4UL3bgI/+8n; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Smsxm-000Fgm-9Z for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 15:47:46 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1341521265-94480-94479/5/96; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 20:47:45 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF5BB56.10100@my.gd> <4FF5E22D.9000007@infracaninophile.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 15:47:45 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4FF5E22D.9000007@infracaninophile.co.uk> User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 20:47:47 -0000 On Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:51:25 -0500, Matthew Seaman wrote: > AFAIK, no > operating system has a stub resolver the capability to validate DNSSEC. Yeah, I was sort of hinting at that :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 21:41:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFA061065675; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 21:41:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Received: from gw.catspoiler.org (gw.catspoiler.org [75.1.14.242]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5721F8FC0A; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 21:41:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from FreeBSD.org (mousie.catspoiler.org [192.168.101.2]) by gw.catspoiler.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id q65LFCQK015442; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:15:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Message-Id: <201207052115.q65LFCQK015442@gw.catspoiler.org> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:15:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis To: olivier@gid0.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, dougb@FreeBSD.org, mwm@mired.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 21:41:22 -0000 On 5 Jul, Olivier Smedts wrote: > an Ubuntu "server" : > # time fsqfqsdfs > fsqfqsdfs: command not found > > real 0m0.408s > user 0m0.120s > sys 0m0.040s > > and that's a *fast* one ! Lucky you! Fedora 16 on my fastest hardware ... # time fsqfqsdfs bash: fsqfqsdfs: command not found... real 0m2.110s user 0m0.018s sys 0m0.010s ... makes typos very annoying. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 22:15:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDCB8106566C for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 22:15:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565F88FC08 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 22:15:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-72-89-250-138.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [72.89.250.138]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CB4011B400D; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 22:15:46 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF6119F.7030406@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 18:13:51 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120628 Thunderbird/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sean References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <9fab855109ce448d89081b2ad8e5adc8@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FF58257.4040301@gentoo.org> <38FB993D-6EB4-49BF-9790-420F7375E331@gothic.net.au> <4FF5B0FE.5010609@gentoo.org> <8B6B2F42-71EA-449A-8A83-8F76C34A2DC5@gothic.net.au> In-Reply-To: <8B6B2F42-71EA-449A-8A83-8F76C34A2DC5@gothic.net.au> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig9A89239EDCEA7D9579A3D196" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gentoo Solution to Nanny Terminal Problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 22:15:53 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig9A89239EDCEA7D9579A3D196 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 07/05/2012 12:18 PM, Sean wrote: >=20 > On 06/07/2012, at 1:21 AM, Richard Yao wrote: >=20 >> On 07/05/2012 10:58 AM, Sean wrote: >>> >>> On 05/07/2012, at 10:02 PM, Richard Yao wrote: >>>> >>>> The second is the e-file command, which will query that database for= >>>> whatever follows it. For example, if I want to find out which packag= e >>>> installs repoman, I can do `e-file repoman`. I can also do `e-file >>>> /usr/bin/repoman`. >>>> >>>> if FreeBSD had an equivalent to this command, this command, then I >>>> imagine that calls for Ubuntu/Fedora features should cease. Gentoo u= sers >>>> seem to be happy with e-file. >>>> >>> >>> >>> 0:55 Fri 06-Jul sean@queen [~] pkg_info -W bash >>> /usr/local/bin/bash was installed by package bash-4.2.28 >>> >>> 0:57 Fri 06-Jul sean@queen [~] pkg_info -W /usr/local/sbin/sendmail=20 >>> /usr/local/sbin/sendmail was installed by package postfix-2.9.3,1 >> >> Does that tell you about packages that are not installed? >> >=20 > No, but that wasn't part of your description. Or if it was, I missed it= and go me for publicly putting my foot in my mouth :) >=20 > And if it's going down the path of every package/port there's questions= (at least to me...) - is it all possible ports/packages including option= s (and that's a big 'how?'), or just the defaults? Considering how dynami= c ports are with options rather than being broken up into pieces, it gets= ugly fast - which port has /usr/local/bin/ndb_config? ok, yes, mysql*-se= rver, but only if WITH_NDB - it's not default. Maybe that should be a mys= ql*-server-ndb port, but it's not, and it's far from alone there ... PHP = was at one time the poster child for compiling everything in via options = rather than using modules and I'm very grateful for the maintainers for s= orting out that mess as much as they have. But it's also another example = of non-default options making notable changes; what if you're looking for= the mod_php setup? Searching for mod_php won't work if you just use defa= ults; it's a non-default option for the php5* package. Same with php-fpm.= =20 >=20 > It's an effective solution for the default packages and certainly works= well on that basis, but the current ports aren't always amenable to peel= ing out the required information in a variety of cases.=20 >=20 > This is not to say it's a bad idea - it's not, by any means. Quite the = reverse really. It's just the boundaries and limits really need to be cle= ar or its diving down a rabbit hole... (shuffle/split the ports to make t= his easier? Does pkg-ng make it easier to find this sort of information? = Punt on it and say caveat emptor?) >=20 > Gentoo's ebuilds can be just as dynamic - how does Gentoo deal with it?= That information is recorded in /var/db/pkg. The cron job reads that on Gentoo. As for what it will find, it only will find things that has been installed on end user systems that are running the cron job. If an option or port is not used, then it will not find it. That has only happened to me once on Gentoo. Apparently, no one runing the cron job used mtree and the package had been broken for a while. --------------enig9A89239EDCEA7D9579A3D196 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJP9hGkAAoJECDuEZm+6Exk8ycP/isGNJ5dsbygIEWFT26yNW3/ h5tDfzZWhI+CqMmIhYZoXzHNYyTZBhTXHUQ0e1vx7dYwCKoY9ZNBoPUJRDVYa3Y9 nwotTpKiXdHLe/zoisUoBKbst0IphrS97L9PFZt4m4RpKIBITQszTqwWQi9e/WcY 4kHCGwWCjiRrGFlmy8HgMmMVDxK562NRqDv/5jwYWmFCI5pmrj+WTH3IOqrYcxfQ vRLGPiQpkBhUjexvgAQs0YxijvX96zJugBXItjJ7E02soO0hid12ZwA6SobrIyzN 2/IbjL8JRVy0+z3VXXEtXdwyl5ngB8S4BiTsc5BCgnLs5I/E90a/q2MqUqgVaqu0 Y/RqoUpJT7dTRN5uhfCMaJw5HJUKKevljkgHxp0aHLMoEWhUMei6xXW3ruHihfxG 3GhYzt6EoK3sxVqGOwkiyB5H7NiICg2Vem7OJehpdAU1PpnPDh5+JulYw4OG/eLs gUOkpxQyH73nKCV9jwaekkm3RaAwZFAFLi7DPEseavJ/NPlpxMiW0+UBRDQ03uPW h0aIyWSkp5PMeE3qmz26ZnK5jLpYnOLh0Vp6/azyfSX+WLvcwfTOH+FG3q8wBAn0 S6qdIp4X2Sh4GpeQmRxoIXU26KyFiT0FhR9p+Uv9U6AbDJjZhbWSLhOWgfZy4Y/J l0Mblx8uJ1Ax0MJJxsQG =4nRy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig9A89239EDCEA7D9579A3D196-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 23:14:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C035B106566C; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 23:14:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lacombar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29F5B8FC15; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 23:14:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so8618397wgb.31 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:14:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Tg3u0LwO0lSgOxLar0RrzCMgWg4SWbYlWdj/SpUcQHA=; b=xF8y1awOvBlH2MZmN0zLp69Hz0Avn+HexbogxCIhpmOF1HuJz0w6qoHjEFVJLpiiet kTsA6EappWvfQD9NWPLJUfqfHgNtC3W8ASHo/KYAQD8/Zle5MfGi4PPQLpv+ZMxa4asz 0fQ9+q8OvygRzke5/6InkA80AjLMhkZaa6pyjHZ2LNSiKZsFccOtrxZdaizTU2UFIc0+ Ut40kMoniYZBeLqDxa53h5sMherDOUdfNVwS3/7dnRZKScP49MKFxR8y23ooDaBNigPS A7GqtLFLilQhx9YGd1C2+ni9fsSUG3aHK4zjJo+I21XHcNMpLRM5zoaQhOHxyK+BNTXZ 9fIw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.217.3.209 with SMTP id r59mr8701254wes.108.1341530068015; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 16:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.47.3 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 16:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 19:14:28 -0400 Message-ID: From: Arnaud Lacombe To: FreeBSD Current Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Interfacing devices with multiple parents within newbus X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 23:14:29 -0000 Hi folks, The problem has been raised in the last BSDCan during a talk, but no clear answer has been given. Some (pseudo-)devices might require resources from multiple other (pseudo-)devices. For example, a device is sitting on an SMBus, but need to access a software controlled LED, sitting on a GPIO bus, itself sitting on an LPC bus... Or a variant where everything is controlled on the same chip, but different GPIO banks. For that specific example, all the GPIO pin could be implement on the same GPIObus, however, gpiobus(4) is limited to 32 pins and the chip provides 5 banks of 8 pins, ie. a total of 40 pins[0]. In the same idea, a device sitting on GPIOs controlled by two independant chips, say one being an ICH10R chipset on a PCI device function, and the other being a SuperIO on an LPC bus. This situation make me really dubious that FreeBSD will be able to support configuration such as: esdhc@50004000 { /* ESDHC1 */ cd-gpios = <&gpio2 13 0>; /* GPIO3_13 */ wp-gpios = <&gpio3 11 0>; /* GPIO4_11 */ status = "okay"; }; or: ecspi@50010000 { /* ECSPI1 */ fsl,spi-num-chipselects = <2>; cs-gpios = <&gpio1 30 0>, /* GPIO2_30 */ <&gpio2 19 0>; /* GPIO3_19 */ status = "okay"; [...] This example is taken from Linux' `arch/arm/boot/dts/imx53-smd.dts'. Here, SDHC or SPI controller are using different GPIO devices. Note that these GPIO pins does not seem to be multi-function pins as another .dts defines ESDHC1 as: esdhc@50004000 { /* ESDHC1 */ cd-gpios = <&gpio2 13 0>; /* GPIO3_13 */ wp-gpios = <&gpio2 14 0>; /* GPIO3_14 */ status = "okay"; }; AFAIK, newbus is unable to model any of the above situation without being bypassed one way or another. any hints ? Thanks, - Arnaud [0]: as a matter of comparison, old PXA27x have up to 121 GPIOs From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 00:21:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3727E106566B; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 00:21:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mjguzik@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D6638FC0A; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 00:21:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eabm6 with SMTP id m6so3739063eab.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:21:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=UHAP1TZJa3fh7CoHzUJRgc2GZEfUmk8sSTkMCnWD1OA=; b=xlr5I8OUxslpMA5O3W0hA/lI+uRDC/6XWtOWNZ8zhGTELOrEypIowxerdp0Cq/JMTK bY/MIAcApXLnf+0c3ivGGGSAIMIeS3SJIXyHBHMdc3F2gxPJykY9zVAaNdgBUxoSSZOz 96kQIGEeDGf97c+/j3hWLeLxPo30NpnkbG7n2qH7XZsFjnYHciQ2drP9H3Xs+A8eAqxy T/xbj30zy44G4i3KeqLxehgVTbFtEvhNL/tlI7UI4WFFS+6pHoD5Ng+OVwQWVDMxvjNh FjPuxpXa3l7TwRb5TxL4/ksF8bG6VSBzZEMSUX2eWSqZNw2lgZ4ljgnskUiyHHMD1wFH 0aVQ== Received: by 10.14.99.132 with SMTP id x4mr7018612eef.1.1341534106404; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dft-labs.eu (n1x0n-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net. [2001:470:1f08:1f7::2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t3sm66901565eeb.15.2012.07.05.17.21.45 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 02:21:43 +0200 From: Mateusz Guzik To: Olivier Smedts Message-ID: <20120706002142.GA28915@dft-labs.eu> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Doug Barton , Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 00:21:53 -0000 On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 12:03:21PM +0200, Olivier Smedts wrote: > 2012/7/5 Doug Barton : > > On 07/04/2012 15:01, Mike Meyer wrote: > >> On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 14:19:38 -0700 > >> Doug Barton wrote: > >>> On 07/04/2012 11:51, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > >>>> What would be really nice here is a command wrapper hooked into the > >>>> shell so that when you type a command and it does not exist it presents > >>>> you with a question for suggestions to install somewhat like Fedora has > >>>> done. > >>> I would also like to see this feature, which is pretty much universal in > >>> linux at this point. It's very handy. > >> > >> I, on the other hand, count it as one of the many features of Linux > >> that make me use FreeBSD. > > > > First, I agree that being able to turn it off should be possible. But I > > can't help being curious ... why would you *not* want a feature that > > tells you what to install if you type a command that doesn't exist on > > the system? > > You mean, this desktop "dumb mode" thing that makes my hard drive led > crazy-blink and makes me hit (first) my desk and (then) ^C before > anything is displayed ? > > my FreeBSD desktop : > % time dsfsd > dsfsd: Commande introuvable. > 0.000u 0.002s 0:00.00 0.0% 0+0k 0+0io 0pf+0w > > an Ubuntu "server" : > # time fsqfqsdfs > fsqfqsdfs: command not found > > real 0m0.408s > user 0m0.120s > sys 0m0.040s > > and that's a *fast* one ! > I'd like to point out that the idea is to give the user an easy way obtain package name for given potentialy missing program that is presented to him on error. It doesn't require spitting the list on every occasion and thus introducing overhead. One can just implement a standalone script that does package/port search and add a hook to the shell that prints the following: Command foo not found. Run pkg whatever foo to obtain list of ports/packages providing this program. No overhead, the message is not too long and can be disabled if someone finds it offensive. Does this sound reasonable? -- Mateusz Guzik From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 00:56:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF88A1065673 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 00:56:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brodbd@uw.edu) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0B98FC12 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 00:56:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcbfy7 with SMTP id fy7so7143893vcb.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:56:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=fH66iqT8AiFo0SUEVGJx922JEHQvbQe+r7hiTNAaQmI=; b=WxdvJsGpuac3tafHJY0sPC9RdhKe4lwOHpbTEu7LcpJ/P7Qv57fVtmEYDQieItnqBv GTAl24PzTSsuCkHqijJYIFxfyw0vnYgoOctdR6JXnIQnsYkObK1jyZixr3K8DjrSWVxK 9G5avTPznPYJzmUIafvd0oIhD2j26jgJnnF7B56wJyq2k1CR4CSKGxRsF4/FNCrXp1SF 2m23b2EUx8O0R62hFSjhGczF9RwxXDsZsjec75Zt2WvuH0NVbsXQot/5eKmhNxRE7UCF 1lzfFP9oapOXN+hVxxd6EawwiFGsMDmy6K9QR1vnrM90xKEz4G75gQ3qgApGsMOCRkKz pHuw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.30.2 with SMTP id o2mr11371051vdh.132.1341536215715; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.91.9 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:56:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120704221749.6a300733@bhuda.mired.org> References: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120704225519.GB19945@DataIX.net> <4FF4CAD1.8080804@FreeBSD.org> <20120704234104.GA392@DataIX.net> <8E9DECBB-3D1E-4129-A958-9DB0DF69ECC3@kientzle.com> <4FF4E105.50502@FreeBSD.org> <20120704203711.2732b645@bhuda.mired.org> <2EA305F0-87D9-47BE-B3E6-366659BF77AF@kientzle.com> <20120704214216.29085927@bhuda.mired.org> <8BD384B7-BAE3-46ED-9AFD-50319130767E@kientzle.com> <20120704221749.6a300733@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:56:55 -0700 Message-ID: From: David Brodbeck To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmiUP9GsfS9cSD6xgDIzMWzyYIuq2+R9Z1BGw/7tHep7es2eRg7xDqS2SdUQ2/BacTYaG7b Cc: Subject: Re: Better error messages for command not found (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 00:56:56 -0000 On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > Actually, that's my biggest gripe about Linux systems. They set things > in /etc/* shell profiles that *can't* be turned off in user rc files, > because the ones in /etc run last. (And usually more than > once. Idiots.) I haven't encountered that, at least on RedHat. I routinely override stuff in /etc/profile in my local .bash_profile. The bash manpage is pretty explicit that /etc/profile is read first. Are some distros doing something silly like sourcing /etc/profile in .bash_profile? -- David Brodbeck System Administrator, Linguistics University of Washington From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 05:04:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7557D1065673 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 05:04:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF05D8FC0C for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 05:04:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so15015150pbb.13 for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 22:04:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=wYaNIKB4Ewj9Zc0rDwUVuMdsQXHv+eI1uu3urjZcR+o=; b=DG9Nu+8YvbXeNpSI5/UZF1QGXY3dt7LJE0hzTocUmapx8ofoiQOvXsG7eQPyH8VGY4 oV2IolOdY6CBb5TzVaizgWAmf03T4i5V4bcUN5HjgcR/Hzl0IllnbCwhUyH/uPXiig3A g5/GjJeHtkAQ4DEsiyKmvUlG6UmQNb/QzsQzhX5EvIjbkVNse8C7GYeredOBEMbkzBBy saDocUraFy8pjB4eaPzP1IDCrIvJOY8WHwSMDGpblSaWi5s61T7ffRff0pr47DE+ogPZ CFMkTO2JmpsEpWwpjD/VsMYmM4P3mu5t5xBcJmGuUE70v/ijRsCpA85wpSBgP3Ttsyq2 JsmA== Received: by 10.68.238.166 with SMTP id vl6mr33664171pbc.96.1341551063464; Thu, 05 Jul 2012 22:04:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.63] (50-78-194-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.78.194.198]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id nh8sm21117559pbc.60.2012.07.05.22.04.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 05 Jul 2012 22:04:23 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 23:04:19 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Arnaud Lacombe X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlJLCQn00U3IENJUqmXI31vPEpGj05ocxC/iFeMr7NrL9yboxU16PZzb2CmJXgs11Bm1WI9 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Interfacing devices with multiple parents within newbus X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 05:04:24 -0000 On Jul 5, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > Hi folks, >=20 > The problem has been raised in the last BSDCan during a talk, but no > clear answer has been given. Some (pseudo-)devices might require > resources from multiple other (pseudo-)devices. >=20 > For example, a device is sitting on an SMBus, but need to access a > software controlled LED, sitting on a GPIO bus, itself sitting on an > LPC bus... Or a variant where everything is controlled on the same > chip, but different GPIO banks. For that specific example, all the > GPIO pin could be implement on the same GPIObus, however, gpiobus(4) > is limited to 32 pins and the chip provides 5 banks of 8 pins, ie. a > total of 40 pins[0]. In the same idea, a device sitting on GPIOs > controlled by two independant chips, say one being an ICH10R chipset > on a PCI device function, and the other being a > SuperIO on an LPC bus. >=20 > This situation make me really dubious that FreeBSD will be able to > support configuration such as: >=20 > esdhc@50004000 { /* ESDHC1 */ > cd-gpios =3D <&gpio2 13 0>; /* GPIO3_13 */ > wp-gpios =3D <&gpio3 11 0>; /* GPIO4_11 */ > status =3D "okay"; > }; >=20 > or: >=20 > ecspi@50010000 { /* ECSPI1 */ > fsl,spi-num-chipselects =3D <2>; > cs-gpios =3D <&gpio1 30 0>, /* GPIO2_30 */ > <&gpio2 19 0>; /* GPIO3_19 */ > status =3D "okay"; > [...] >=20 > This example is taken from Linux' `arch/arm/boot/dts/imx53-smd.dts'. > Here, SDHC or SPI controller are using different GPIO devices. Note > that these GPIO pins does not seem to be multi-function pins as > another .dts defines ESDHC1 as: >=20 > esdhc@50004000 { /* ESDHC1 */ > cd-gpios =3D <&gpio2 13 0>; /* GPIO3_13 */ > wp-gpios =3D <&gpio2 14 0>; /* GPIO3_14 */ > status =3D "okay"; > }; >=20 > AFAIK, newbus is unable to model any of the above situation without > being bypassed one way or another. >=20 > any hints ? That's not correct. You don't need a parent-child relationship in = newbus to interact with another node in the tree. You can look up the = other node by name, and then call functions based on finding that other = device. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 07:11:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B08B7106564A for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 07:11:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from j.mckeown@ru.ac.za) Received: from mail.ru.ac.za (mail.ru.ac.za [IPv6:2001:4200:1010:0:250:56ff:fe8d:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFCFE8FC0C for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 07:11:25 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ru.ac.za; s=ru-msa; h=X-Authenticated-User:Message-Id:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=YDsBc2uXs86KzIDY+L86HUg2A7Ua+JFdtc4e4m+yW5A=; b=mER3OWWDpbjYeTPe/MObx1N35RM9IHQoGXd5ekw8uAnneVBShqalvsxXy13rGJlFQwY+qmaq7p1irGDGGGAe8a7a5ahkVJ5mmFcm421dX6Co/cdTQvZtQTZ29dkPNkoK; Received: from vorkosigan.ru.ac.za ([2001:4200:1010:1058:219:d1ff:fe9f:a932]:60296) by mail.ru.ac.za with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Sn2hH-000LSe-36 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 09:11:23 +0200 From: Jonathan McKeown Organization: Rhodes University To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 09:11:22 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: In-Reply-To: X-Face: $@VrUx^RHy/}yu]jKf/<4T%/d|F+$j-Ol2"2J$q+%OK1]&/G_S9(=?utf-8?q?HkaQ*=60!=3FYOK=3FY!=27M=60C=0A=09aP=5C9nVPF8Q=7DCilHH8l=3B=7E!4?= =?utf-8?q?2HK6=273lg4J=7Daz?=@1Dqqh:J]M^"YPn*2IWrZON$1+G?oX3@ =?utf-8?q?k=230=0A=0954XDRg=3DYn=5FF-etwot4U=24b?=dTS{i X-Virus-Scanned: mail.ru.ac.za (2001:4200:1010:0:250:56ff:fe8d:5) X-Authenticated-User: s0900137 from vorkosigan.ru.ac.za (2001:4200:1010:1058:219:d1ff:fe9f:a932) using auth_plaintext Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 07:11:26 -0000 On Thursday 05 July 2012 20:08:36 Eitan Adler wrote > > The system should be optimized for new users by default. No. People aren't new users for long.This makes a lot more sense: On Thursday 05 July 2012 19:31:17 Garrett Cooper wrote > > Here's a *random* thought to consider. This seems like a feature that > FreeNAS/PC-BSD/etc (Linux/Windows/other OS convert) type thing might > want -- so maybe the feature should exist (but be off) in FreeBSD and > exist (and be on) in custom FreeBSD distros where users aren't > necessarily expected to know FreeBSD. This is the most sensible suggestion I've seen in this conversation so far. Jonathan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 08:35:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B7111065674 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 08:35:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivier@gid0.org) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58288FC15 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 08:35:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so16150586lbo.13 for ; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 01:35:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=JFG9hX47m5V5Tx2mqT2KWY5z/8WLL67+e87/sQS5a5g=; b=beK2nE2vuWC3y5YchdhycyqnGzGSMzgtLe2tUAZJduKx+vzZ+w3U8fhZeWaeOgXTkD SPCm7gwAfXmQtGBg+SHfHKRbcLKiBTGVnx6qtvzugKzlzN88A6R1F4kkP7v2wz0xDxZp Gg2akJfCm3F2AUgFo0H6E7qJmodOXnZqoHizXhrO/DzMaqmsfRQD07S63FRuPSTEkgQl njP9ykFE30tFcv1XTP2Xeb2mpJPdYrnT+hrLdRq9F4ganVnFJxFvzcGjG+nJLowfUEyY imBvJIgXyBQQb0ZY4196QOwubKGCd6cpmAh2F9GHIWB7epVpfuOrCB3uY65qJB7W3etl N4MQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.43.129 with SMTP id w1mr3041331lbl.61.1341563716382; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 01:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.100.68 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 01:35:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120706002142.GA28915@dft-labs.eu> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <20120706002142.GA28915@dft-labs.eu> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 10:35:16 +0200 Message-ID: From: Olivier Smedts To: Mateusz Guzik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmwTymbXkhBDngKBENppER9TqtWqRhZoGvJtJFfb/jM8kuxEdtoz1qbYt5cO8TFOQ+xNhFW Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Doug Barton , Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 08:35:18 -0000 2012/7/6 Mateusz Guzik : > and add a hook to the shell that prints the following: > Command foo not found. Run pkg whatever foo to obtain list of ports/packages > providing this program. > > No overhead, the message is not too long and can be disabled if someone > finds it offensive. > > Does this sound reasonable? Just a better error message providing useful advices... no additional process launched to crawl a huge database... Sure, this sounds reasonable to me ! -- Olivier Smedts _ ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) e-mail: olivier@gid0.org - against HTML email & vCards X www: http://www.gid0.org - against proprietary attachments / \ "Il y a seulement 10 sortes de gens dans le monde : ceux qui comprennent le binaire, et ceux qui ne le comprennent pas." From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 10:30:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BBAE1065677 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 10:30:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C236E8FC0C for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 10:30:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q66AU7N5013228; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 12:30:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q66AU7L5013225; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 12:30:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 12:30:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Jonathan McKeown In-Reply-To: <201207060911.22861.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> Message-ID: References: <201207060911.22861.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 06 Jul 2012 12:30:07 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 10:30:14 -0000 >> want -- so maybe the feature should exist (but be off) in FreeBSD and >> exist (and be on) in custom FreeBSD distros where users aren't >> necessarily expected to know FreeBSD. > > This is the most sensible suggestion I've seen in this conversation so far. indeed this: ----------- custom FreeBSD distros where users aren't >> necessarily expected to know FreeBSD. ----------- is right. FreeBSD code is on BSD licence, everyone can do whatever funky distros he/she want. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 12:42:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EF4B1065673 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 12:42:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3F428FC08 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 12:42:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.37]) by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 06 Jul 2012 08:41:57 -0400 Received: from smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.104]) by mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 4.3.4-GA) with ESMTP id BOO55885; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 08:41:56 -0400 Received: from 209-6-86-84.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) ([209.6.86.84]) by smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 06 Jul 2012 08:41:57 -0400 From: Robert Huff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <20470.56594.765449.950782@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 08:41:54 -0400 To: Jonathan McKeown In-Reply-To: <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> References: <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" XEmacs Lucid X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 12:42:04 -0000 Jonathan McKeown writes: > No. I think this is entirely the wrong way round. If the new > feature is created and you want it, turn it on. Commonly known as "opt in". Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 15:33:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B374F1065670; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 15:33:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lacombar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21CFE8FC16; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 15:33:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so9280543wgb.31 for ; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 08:33:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=8tZs1+xnwWmNDwtHtKjhk12i2ML5kEFXMoj0IZm3wg0=; b=HwwzH8SmnTmWCDmdjvwJqfGq8ndPTahwSHrIU+NhUuspea0/guRgNMEVpxgm1qxCJE AwBBT9AuazYb6RGyIGjvkEwoe9NT/Q75hI6DapE9YR3Nho9c5LTGj9i9l7+O7+xhpaAB UHzx89QAUL7eheujbsv1hqDk4CY/4ll3K2V9a2mZUt4+/Z/g8OTb7i2vL9NHUKz3rvN4 vBmxiZMne/Pklb4QOYLgZNL73TgP34tFYoNot7m0LCC24ujmXwQRdTr5APkd26/zY3zn nf3ZC3YbCEIi/RR7PC8TFwGLlgOP28hGffRGwkKC1e7juIv6MSjS+qmbLwiBJBQHtHdD /Gog== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.217.3.209 with SMTP id r59mr10001747wes.108.1341588836915; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 08:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.23.200 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 08:33:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 11:33:56 -0400 Message-ID: From: Arnaud Lacombe To: Warner Losh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Interfacing devices with multiple parents within newbus X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 15:33:58 -0000 Hi, On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 1:04 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Jul 5, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > >> Hi folks, >> >> The problem has been raised in the last BSDCan during a talk, but no >> clear answer has been given. Some (pseudo-)devices might require >> resources from multiple other (pseudo-)devices. >> >> For example, a device is sitting on an SMBus, but need to access a >> software controlled LED, sitting on a GPIO bus, itself sitting on an >> LPC bus... Or a variant where everything is controlled on the same >> chip, but different GPIO banks. For that specific example, all the >> GPIO pin could be implement on the same GPIObus, however, gpiobus(4) >> is limited to 32 pins and the chip provides 5 banks of 8 pins, ie. a >> total of 40 pins[0]. In the same idea, a device sitting on GPIOs >> controlled by two independant chips, say one being an ICH10R chipset >> on a PCI device function, and the other being a >> SuperIO on an LPC bus. >> >> This situation make me really dubious that FreeBSD will be able to >> support configuration such as: >> >> esdhc@50004000 { /* ESDHC1 */ >> cd-gpios = <&gpio2 13 0>; /* GPIO3_13 */ >> wp-gpios = <&gpio3 11 0>; /* GPIO4_11 */ >> status = "okay"; >> }; >> >> or: >> >> ecspi@50010000 { /* ECSPI1 */ >> fsl,spi-num-chipselects = <2>; >> cs-gpios = <&gpio1 30 0>, /* GPIO2_30 */ >> <&gpio2 19 0>; /* GPIO3_19 */ >> status = "okay"; >> [...] >> >> This example is taken from Linux' `arch/arm/boot/dts/imx53-smd.dts'. >> Here, SDHC or SPI controller are using different GPIO devices. Note >> that these GPIO pins does not seem to be multi-function pins as >> another .dts defines ESDHC1 as: >> >> esdhc@50004000 { /* ESDHC1 */ >> cd-gpios = <&gpio2 13 0>; /* GPIO3_13 */ >> wp-gpios = <&gpio2 14 0>; /* GPIO3_14 */ >> status = "okay"; >> }; >> >> AFAIK, newbus is unable to model any of the above situation without >> being bypassed one way or another. >> >> any hints ? > > That's not correct. You don't need a parent-child relationship in newbus to interact with another node in the tree. You can look up the other node by name, and then call functions based on finding that other device. > I assume you are talking about devclass_get_device()/device_find_child(). That's neither correct nor robust in a couple of way: 1) you have no guarantee a device unit will always give you the same resource. 2) there is no reference counting on the returned device. 3) there is no track record of the reference being given. About (1), lower unit devices can fails to attach[0], thus newly attached bus will now have a negative offset. About (2) and (3), referenced device (think KLD) might go away and the child will not be told. In this situation, I want the child to be detached prior to its parent. As such, looking up other node by name would fit in what I call "bypassing newbus purpose". I might just as well export a damn function pointer and make my life easier. What would be need is an interface where the child need to have a way to say "resources I need are not complete, tell me when a new device in devclass Z is attached that I can check if it fills my need", ala: - dev0 is probed - dev0 tells it is present, but need unavailable resource in devclass X and devclass Y - dev0 is marked as pending - dev1 is attached in devclass X - dev0 is asked if dev1 would suit it - dev0 answers negatively - dev2 is attached in devclass X - dev0 is asked if dev2 would suit it - dev0 answers positively - dev0 continues its probe, but still need unavailable resource in devclass Y - dev3 is attached in devclass Y - dev0 is asked if dev3 would suit it - dev0 answers positively - dev0 finishes its probe - dev0 is attached [...] - dev3 is to be detached - dev0 is detached - dev3 is detached - Arnaud [0]: for many reason; hardware failure, configuration change (think GPIO on multi-function pin) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 16:46:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E6CA106564A for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 16:46:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73E728FC12 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 16:46:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q66GkKiC011437; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 18:46:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q66GkJda011393; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 18:46:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 18:46:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Eitan Adler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 06 Jul 2012 18:46:21 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jonathan McKeown , Chris Rees Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 16:46:28 -0000 > > The system should be optimized for new users by default. Whether this > means enabling or disabling a feature is feature-specific. > with such attitude it will not take long to turn FreeBSD to useless thing, not really different from linux or windows, and about as useful From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 17:10:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87A21106566B for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 17:10:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3561D8FC0C for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 17:10:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so19198530obb.13 for ; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=nXiAg6xNi86sOawHOe32TtitwAELgkY0b0w6RYrIf6o=; b=FBQX5gnetCwnOfjknsbii+CYIIyrfubl3bUMawTiiYlkflCaHF8BAnQK/UhfFp+uop uAY5wJXksm6nIECCN/Jqaff3Ud+jA0nfwtUt2HEU87NEXmNctFX4Wnde6X2/qi5t2+03 oqt90yCcNeVIKwZ1ZUxwxhk3SLx9jAJJB+blFFRMwvKJQnohiDIWsP12UKv9IBhtB1GQ WxMyehreOKQJg9SgaC6t+rr5XnKht8iCagyAervShzh0qyI6vbDX6Gq22vmxx1u6Os/l YdaruG5DG63hYEyj6joVVmyahtTEiBSJdZPzOfVD4FUKvGz8l9UNs0E2zKtR7BWMf5fm Z3aA== Received: by 10.60.2.131 with SMTP id 3mr31789340oeu.59.1341594606793; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.101.53] ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id jn2sm18984503obb.13.2012.07.06.10.10.05 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 06 Jul 2012 10:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 11:09:59 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <05171492-A9C9-42B0-A111-5B3427D58B4F@bsdimp.com> References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> To: Wojciech Puchar X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmw3d807nmYlqazazZHsAJ0zH5GiniUU6YnjadKU2DR8QyYxyYKlk74xMTWJyMnaHa2xodc Cc: Eitan Adler , Jonathan McKeown , Chris Rees , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 17:10:07 -0000 On Jul 6, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>=20 >> The system should be optimized for new users by default. Whether this >> means enabling or disabling a feature is feature-specific. >>=20 > with such attitude it will not take long to turn FreeBSD to useless = thing, not really different from linux or windows, and about as useful Actually, systems should be optimized to be most useful for the largest = number of users. I tend to agree with the sentiment expressed elsewhere = in this thread: it should be OFF by default in the base, but we should = encourage distributions that cater to new and/or users of other = platforms to turn a feature like this on. I'm neutral on the error message, but changing it to say 'fred: Command = not found. See pkg_which(8).' or something like that is easy. On the = other hand, we tend to not do that elsewhere for error messages. This = is a fairly easy thing to do to trim fat off this problem, which may be = exceptional enough to call for an exception to our usual practice. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 18:46:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E19231065680; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 18:46:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lacombar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC568FC19; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 18:46:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so9435838wgb.31 for ; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 11:46:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=hOugMstE6M00znJMurQZau5r9ib46wX0MqbqNmTpjMY=; b=nAJrCql3tVgz5aqE2Riujt7ymqIBP2NlpvwrAnOT76de5S5q0Gj2eq63ocfdU0gWB2 0Ek3SgGU8vRdZy0rOg3vQOfREWhzhaGyXXGmyQ5DM+P5nKgr6hg8WPlAdbsYm43zRTli a/3IwvLrM7eTXC5//Z1k1XjTY8VccxadwjRvaCXDYNv3ATbr2nQX8xFZ5QkbX/jwNLCB kTsHfuWEbQZyEbcRC08PQFyRYJsHJ646pcNSQbFO0m1H/H9FkmdHLB+/Ou5x7xHO5+gt 5vuVOsxadcVmG2bOFXX2wDTA2kIcCrULP3Y5zp9ZPfWAXaNJEhdiKjJJardwkSrF05Ue hNTg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.98.69 with SMTP id eg5mr9941011wib.3.1341600400354; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 11:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.23.200 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 11:46:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 14:46:40 -0400 Message-ID: From: Arnaud Lacombe To: Warner Losh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Interfacing devices with multiple parents within newbus X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 18:46:42 -0000 Hi, On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > That's neither correct nor robust in a couple of way: > 1) you have no guarantee a device unit will always give you the same resource. this raises the following question: how can a device, today, figure out which parent in a given devclass would give it access to resources it needs. Say, you have gpiobus0 provided by a superio and gpiobus1 provided by the chipset and a LED on the chipset's GPIO. Now, say gpiobus0 attachment is conditional to some BIOS setting. How can you tell gpioled(4) to attach on the chipset provided GPIO without hardcoding unit number either way ? AFAIK, you can not. Even hints provided layout description is defeated. Each device in a given devclass need to have a set of unique attribute to allow a child to distinguish it from other potential parent in the same devclass... - Arnaud From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 18:57:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C50531065672 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 18:57:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EE8F8FC08 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 18:57:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so19356086obb.13 for ; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 11:57:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=MeqTKp1m1xMTqd2+L6pcWtzdaEHQpKliBPwU5XEEROE=; b=ZowCrNlpY++18u9GTIY28NE+1lHG3c+l3qJGPVCTCqwXHESLKKHpAkHcQrNw8mLFf4 diQy3M7IkC54oNh2UDOR+sZ37Nz96kkyw8ZzVjaEaEyRg3NaCdxPB/IwaEog2XgPU9To WVhqMZDiD72UWR6FtgkjxBz17wRlElAFo5hMgQg8y4Oj8syTlQLnQLfmhWdWsmyVU4pG ClKSczgUeRscajuFFCGQ3/KDWPewPElnRQpkKbOqCsZtikp1vPmkSnXLrLX7ITT8BEhW y3nCmgiR9k0YxjxyBwT2TUH8wAkXsDmbwEDCRPI6Hi8UKJ0iubCioHzR1zpDwb4iawwL Ap1g== Received: by 10.60.22.5 with SMTP id z5mr32265106oee.2.1341601025048; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 11:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.101.53] ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id tn8sm23723383obc.21.2012.07.06.11.57.04 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 06 Jul 2012 11:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 12:57:02 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Arnaud Lacombe X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk+QAouCzHFFd3091TnsTUSRcp+pZr/TsK27BR8qUuX2FrTCqsGNVcGTyfb+A1A20fDnNkb Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Interfacing devices with multiple parents within newbus X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 18:57:06 -0000 On Jul 6, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > Hi, >=20 > On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Arnaud Lacombe = wrote: >> That's neither correct nor robust in a couple of way: >> 1) you have no guarantee a device unit will always give you the same = resource. > this raises the following question: how can a device, today, figure > out which parent in a given devclass would give it access to resources > it needs. >=20 > Say, you have gpiobus0 provided by a superio and gpiobus1 provided by > the chipset and a LED on the chipset's GPIO. Now, say gpiobus0 > attachment is conditional to some BIOS setting. How can you tell > gpioled(4) to attach on the chipset provided GPIO without hardcoding > unit number either way ? >=20 > AFAIK, you can not. >=20 > Even hints provided layout description is defeated. Each device in a > given devclass need to have a set of unique attribute to allow a child > to distinguish it from other potential parent in the same devclass... hints can hard-wire the device to a given bus. This also can hard-wire = the unit number, which will be stable even if one of them fails to = attach. But since the FDT language provides a richer set of connections than is = possible with raw newbus, perhaps the solution to your problem should be = handled in the FDT domain where you can look up a device name and have = the FDT layer do the proper mapping into newbus rather than trying to = guess at unit numbers. The reference count problem would still be there, but that's a different = issue that we have all over the place and need to solve before we can = properly lock NEWBUS. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 19:09:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43B061065670 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 19:09:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) Received: from qmta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22EFF8FC14 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 19:09:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta23.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.90]) by qmta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id X50f1j0061wfjNsA179EGK; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 19:09:14 +0000 Received: from damnhippie.dyndns.org ([24.8.232.202]) by omta23.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id X79C1j00c4NgCEG8j79DN0; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 19:09:13 +0000 Received: from [172.22.42.240] (revolution.hippie.lan [172.22.42.240]) by damnhippie.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q66J9BUD008889; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 13:09:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) From: Ian Lepore To: Arnaud Lacombe In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 13:09:11 -0600 Message-ID: <1341601751.70246.7.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Interfacing devices with multiple parents within newbus X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 19:09:20 -0000 On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 14:46 -0400, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > > That's neither correct nor robust in a couple of way: > > 1) you have no guarantee a device unit will always give you the same resource. > this raises the following question: how can a device, today, figure > out which parent in a given devclass would give it access to resources > it needs. > > Say, you have gpiobus0 provided by a superio and gpiobus1 provided by > the chipset and a LED on the chipset's GPIO. Now, say gpiobus0 > attachment is conditional to some BIOS setting. How can you tell > gpioled(4) to attach on the chipset provided GPIO without hardcoding > unit number either way ? > > AFAIK, you can not. > > Even hints provided layout description is defeated. Each device in a > given devclass need to have a set of unique attribute to allow a child > to distinguish it from other potential parent in the same devclass... > > - Arnaud Talking about a child being unable to choose the correct parent seems to indicate that this whole problem is turned upside-down somehow; children don't choose their parents. Just blue-sky dreaming here on the fly... what we really have is a resource-management problem. A device comes along that needs a GPIO resource, how does it find and use that resource? Well, we have a resource manager, could that help somehow? Could a driver that provides access to GPIO somehow register its availability so that another driver can find and access it? The "resource" may be a callable interface, it doesn't really matter, I'm just wondering if the current rman stuff could be leveraged to help make the connection between unrelated devices. I think that implies that there would have to be something near the root of the hiearchy willing to be the owner/manager of dynamic resources. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 20:12:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD3DA106566B; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 20:12:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pawel@dawidek.net) Received: from mail.dawidek.net (60.wheelsystems.com [83.12.187.60]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5793A8FC0C; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 20:12:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (89-73-195-149.dynamic.chello.pl [89.73.195.149]) by mail.dawidek.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B5A682EB; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 22:12:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 22:10:34 +0200 From: Pawel Jakub Dawidek To: Warner Losh Message-ID: <20120706201033.GA1437@garage.freebsd.pl> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4FF35864.5030109@FreeBSD.org> <20120704185104.GA42355@DataIX.net> <4FF4B36A.2040608@FreeBSD.org> <20120704180134.7c649e1b@bhuda.mired.org> <4FF4BEED.10103@FreeBSD.org> <62039A45-92E4-4588-988D-6DF39D7B01E5@bsdimp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <62039A45-92E4-4588-988D-6DF39D7B01E5@bsdimp.com> X-OS: FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT amd64 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Doug Barton , Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 20:12:46 -0000 --OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 12:10:17AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 > On Jul 4, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Doug Barton wrote: >=20 > > On 07/04/2012 15:01, Mike Meyer wrote: > >> On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 14:19:38 -0700 > >> Doug Barton wrote: > >>> On 07/04/2012 11:51, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > >>>> What would be really nice here is a command wrapper hooked into the > >>>> shell so that when you type a command and it does not exist it prese= nts > >>>> you with a question for suggestions to install somewhat like Fedora = has > >>>> done. > >>> I would also like to see this feature, which is pretty much universal= in > >>> linux at this point. It's very handy. > >>=20 > >> I, on the other hand, count it as one of the many features of Linux > >> that make me use FreeBSD. > >=20 > > First, I agree that being able to turn it off should be possible. But I > > can't help being curious ... why would you *not* want a feature that > > tells you what to install if you type a command that doesn't exist on > > the system? >=20 > Because I find on Linux it often gets it wrong and winds up being useless= noise. Mostly, though, it is because I mistype commands more than I type = commands that should be there, but aren't. It is even cooler than I thought initially. It punishes you for making typos:) Cool. I think this is very useful for newcomers. The only thing that is missing is a one-liner how to disable this feature next to instruction how to install a package containing the missing command. --=20 Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheelsystems.com FreeBSD committer http://www.FreeBSD.org Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! http://tupytaj.pl --OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/3RjkACgkQForvXbEpPzQCxwCfUWwajCnC8OQLD15jGobbBc+N nZgAoIvf523umHexHz/g3EfWDWoEIk5T =iOVf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 20:19:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB459106566B for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 20:19:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pawel@dawidek.net) Received: from mail.dawidek.net (60.wheelsystems.com [83.12.187.60]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C788FC18 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 20:19:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (89-73-195-149.dynamic.chello.pl [89.73.195.149]) by mail.dawidek.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 41D8C2F0; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 22:19:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 22:17:22 +0200 From: Pawel Jakub Dawidek To: Jonathan McKeown Message-ID: <20120706201721.GB1437@garage.freebsd.pl> References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jho1yZJdad60DJr+" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> X-OS: FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT amd64 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 20:19:34 -0000 --jho1yZJdad60DJr+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 12:15:44PM +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote: > On Thursday 05 July 2012 11:03:32 Doug Barton wrote: > > If the new feature gets created, and you don't want to use it, turn it > > off. No problem. >=20 > No. I think this is entirely the wrong way round. If the new feature is= =20 > created and you want it, turn it on. Don't make me turn off something I= =20 > didn't want in the first place. [...] This feature is targeted at new users, for whom it is harder to turn on something they probably don't even know about, than to skilled users to turn it off. If this feature is going to prints quite a few extra lines, let's just add one more line saying: To disable this message run: echo set 31337mode >> ~/.tcshrc --=20 Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheelsystems.com FreeBSD committer http://www.FreeBSD.org Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! http://tupytaj.pl --jho1yZJdad60DJr+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/3R9EACgkQForvXbEpPzSYnQCgvZyxHiJ3H2RqRBEcdbYLPRBp 820Aniy2ZsYalapzFuBWXmXXhI88OTOl =vEo5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jho1yZJdad60DJr+-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 20:46:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4174E106566B; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 20:46:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lacombar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 960758FC08; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 20:46:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so9517061wgb.31 for ; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 13:45:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=QAYZapSJexHMMVubfb7Go0srs3GpVg9RSlurht4Qmhc=; b=rcATSVVSqkcQXA3GPU1tUSYXULmmzJ8miq20NAk1Q1sxRHPE9oIHUmyK84dSU5RD1n Ymlhuc8xHNq8DA/qxj8RNXYSjxPC7N5u27PzIK/H7FZJiuDTJ0A4H39BadIs/SstTxjy 3mCqPyBHGhhsL5884czXJadLBnLw0lbk621ctVUJCeI1VbYF/9wZaxZ6PK6420gLGV2j A7o4nDfIJ5qitd4456mB83UBO8U4Y9Al9t1tDVlhFDFuk3FidXrmi4raQYuraM0IRI8T iE5zJT+4yJndkR3vzysotsIofo5P5w85qRKXuFm4q8mZK9BuKx3CbjUbJmWojWqsXY0z fMsQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.181.13.142 with SMTP id ey14mr10401225wid.19.1341607555784; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 13:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.23.200 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 13:45:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1341601751.70246.7.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> References: <1341601751.70246.7.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 16:45:55 -0400 Message-ID: From: Arnaud Lacombe To: Ian Lepore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Interfacing devices with multiple parents within newbus X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 20:46:03 -0000 Hi, On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 14:46 -0400, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: >> > That's neither correct nor robust in a couple of way: >> > 1) you have no guarantee a device unit will always give you the same resource. >> this raises the following question: how can a device, today, figure >> out which parent in a given devclass would give it access to resources >> it needs. >> >> Say, you have gpiobus0 provided by a superio and gpiobus1 provided by >> the chipset and a LED on the chipset's GPIO. Now, say gpiobus0 >> attachment is conditional to some BIOS setting. How can you tell >> gpioled(4) to attach on the chipset provided GPIO without hardcoding >> unit number either way ? >> >> AFAIK, you can not. >> >> Even hints provided layout description is defeated. Each device in a >> given devclass need to have a set of unique attribute to allow a child >> to distinguish it from other potential parent in the same devclass... >> >> - Arnaud > > Talking about a child being unable to choose the correct parent seems to > indicate that this whole problem is turned upside-down somehow; children > don't choose their parents. > actually, I think I was wrong, I thought device were attached to a devclass, but they are truly attached to a given device. My mistake. > Just blue-sky dreaming here on the fly... what we really have is a > resource-management problem. A device comes along that needs a GPIO > resource, how does it find and use that resource? > > Well, we have a resource manager, could that help somehow? Could a > driver that provides access to GPIO somehow register its availability so > that another driver can find and access it? The "resource" may be a > callable interface, it doesn't really matter, I'm just wondering if the > current rman stuff could be leveraged to help make the connection > between unrelated devices. I think that implies that there would have > to be something near the root of the hiearchy willing to be the > owner/manager of dynamic resources. > AFAIR, rman is mostly there to manage memory vs. i/o mapped resources. The more I think about it, the more FTD is the answer. The open question now being "how to map a flexible device structure (FTD) to a less flexible structure (Newbus)" :/ - Arnaud From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 09:06:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E26DA106564A for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 09:06:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lukasz.wojcik@zoho.com) Received: from sender1.zohomail.com (sender1.zohomail.com [72.5.230.103]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFAB78FC0A for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 09:06:42 +0000 (UTC) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=zapps768; d=zoho.com; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type; b=qwc+mxrybfV8ky3xTKKVr+NIr8eitP/Ic9y+S7qlmbgzpa2kd/ItXkx6Hh4DVpaf8LUP1cQ2oZYo zT+I2IZdTf16tMlBRMpC+WhFV+d8ZNPrg5om0Gk40Iqt72AI+C/b Received: from [192.168.100.103] (46.174.212.99 [46.174.212.99]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1341650894441999.1730511452198; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 01:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FF7F784.9090701@zoho.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 10:47:00 +0200 From: Lukasz Wojcik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111229 Thunderbird/9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Arnaud Lacombe References: <1341601751.70246.7.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Zoho-Virus-Status: 2 Cc: Ian Lepore , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Interfacing devices with multiple parents within newbus X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 09:06:43 -0000 On 07/06/12 22:45, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Ian Lepore > wrote: >> On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 14:46 -0400, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: >>>> That's neither correct nor robust in a couple of way: >>>> 1) you have no guarantee a device unit will always give you the same resource. >>> this raises the following question: how can a device, today, figure >>> out which parent in a given devclass would give it access to resources >>> it needs. >>> >>> Say, you have gpiobus0 provided by a superio and gpiobus1 provided by >>> the chipset and a LED on the chipset's GPIO. Now, say gpiobus0 >>> attachment is conditional to some BIOS setting. How can you tell >>> gpioled(4) to attach on the chipset provided GPIO without hardcoding >>> unit number either way ? >>> >>> AFAIK, you can not. >>> >>> Even hints provided layout description is defeated. Each device in a >>> given devclass need to have a set of unique attribute to allow a child >>> to distinguish it from other potential parent in the same devclass... >>> >>> - Arnaud >> >> Talking about a child being unable to choose the correct parent seems to >> indicate that this whole problem is turned upside-down somehow; children >> don't choose their parents. >> I am unsure whether I understand the problem completely, but.. > actually, I think I was wrong, I thought device were attached to a > devclass, but they are truly attached to a given device. My mistake. > >> Just blue-sky dreaming here on the fly... what we really have is a >> resource-management problem. A device comes along that needs a GPIO >> resource, how does it find and use that resource? >> >> Well, we have a resource manager, could that help somehow? Could a >> driver that provides access to GPIO somehow register its availability so >> that another driver can find and access it? The "resource" may be a >> callable interface, it doesn't really matter, I'm just wondering if the >> current rman stuff could be leveraged to help make the connection >> between unrelated devices. I think that implies that there would have >> to be something near the root of the hiearchy willing to be the >> owner/manager of dynamic resources. >> I agree, that on a very abstract level, this is exactly how this should work. In my opinion, what we need here is: a) A way for a driver to locate the resource it needs. That can be done using FDT facility. If the driver knows, that it needs certain resource (like memory, gpio or whatever else), it could process DTB (using OF_*) looking up the node holding that resource. b) Knowing the node (phandle or name), OS could locate appropriate device_t (or even driver) in the tree-hierarchy created by fdtbus (e.g. by iterating by every device_t in the tree). Each device_t created by fdtbus (or simplebus) does keep the information about the DTS (or DTB) node name via ivars. So iterating through device_t-s, we could compare node names hold in ivars with the name of the node for needed resource, and thus find proper device_t. I think this is not currently possible. Note, that other way around -- getting node's phandle based on device_t *is* implemented via ofwbus(fdtbus_ofw_get_node()). I think if this is really needed, ofwbus(fdtbus) could be easily extended by adding a routine like fdtbus_ofw_get_device_for_node(). -LW > AFAIR, rman is mostly there to manage memory vs. i/o mapped resources. > The more I think about it, the more FTD is the answer. The open > question now being "how to map a flexible device structure (FTD) to a > less flexible structure (Newbus)" :/ > > - Arnaud > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 09:25:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 229241065670; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 09:25:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81C988FC0C; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 09:25:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q679P7ij040352; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 11:25:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q679P7Fc040347; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 11:25:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 11:25:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Pawel Jakub Dawidek In-Reply-To: <20120706201721.GB1437@garage.freebsd.pl> Message-ID: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <20120706201721.GB1437@garage.freebsd.pl> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 07 Jul 2012 11:25:07 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jonathan McKeown Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 09:25:11 -0000 > something they probably don't even know about, than to skilled users to > turn it off. > > If this feature is going to prints quite a few extra lines, let's just > add one more line saying: > > To disable this message run: echo set 31337mode >> ~/.tcshrc > > -- should i - from now, understand that this way of "extending" OS is considered right (i mean going down to newbies instead of going up) by FreeBSD developers? Please answer it is important for me, and many other people for a future. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 09:35:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B481065672; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 09:35:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E13628FC14; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 09:35:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcje9 with SMTP id je9so4505221bkc.13 for ; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 02:35:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=7BsYpQ1mzurElTQUgggq40RGpPADBQSJxHTdJWOC0iQ=; b=f2pat5vBP4lXn+/NYbRSel3A4d0fscSp1QROl6TVulQ0S8bSPN7zXC+sfkgoeU28ll /9R96Ae3gL1woeMddHWovZSi+hQxuTDVIdcXwSR9hTRvCCRi1EvsWWscD4h3JOiKbbDZ ohJp+W4771ePpAd7bwCWfd6EndLFPcl9SFhR0wcLZOzWO3iFe7jigivxkDVvbzJPU2Ic dLQ+jbBrI8bcXP+mtOzPz3SF1jmswJlOwOg1+NM6e8ACMo77UFf1cP3ljmW5/RtD7w+L 9ugazirOtStCn2BPlYK4W1DIwDNZDuN9pxZWNp68OmdCO7eYOnQ5qnnOYUdX6TX/oDOP quHg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.205.134.137 with SMTP id ic9mr2330258bkc.57.1341653716897; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 02:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.49.87 with HTTP; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 02:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.49.87 with HTTP; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 02:35:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <20120706201721.GB1437@garage.freebsd.pl> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:35:16 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jonathan McKeown , Pawel Jakub Dawidek Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 09:35:18 -0000 On Jul 7, 2012 10:25 AM, "Wojciech Puchar" wrote: >> >> something they probably don't even know about, than to skilled users to >> turn it off. >> >> If this feature is going to prints quite a few extra lines, let's just >> add one more line saying: >> >> To disable this message run: echo set 31337mode >> ~/.tcshrc >> >> -- > > should i - from now, understand that this way of "extending" OS is considered right (i mean going down to newbies instead of going up) by FreeBSD developers? > > Please answer it is important for me, and many other people for a future. This is not 'going down'. This is adding features to help newcomers. You are free to disable them. It will not remove anything from FreeBSD. I point to Doug's statement on elitism. Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 09:46:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4274A106566C; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 09:46:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 475528FC0A; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 09:46:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q679kolr058843; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 11:46:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q679knRS058836; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 11:46:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 11:46:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chris Rees In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <20120706201721.GB1437@garage.freebsd.pl> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="2456600518-142706960-1341654410=:50444" X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 07 Jul 2012 11:46:50 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jonathan McKeown , Pawel Jakub Dawidek Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 09:46:54 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --2456600518-142706960-1341654410=:50444 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > This is not 'going down'. This is adding features to help newcomers.  You are free to disable them.  It will not remove anything this doesn't help newcomers. Just like "easy installers", "desktop environments" and so on. this only generate herds of morons that "know FreeBSD" and dissolve real user base. Same happened tens of times on almost every free software projects and you still cannot learn ANYTHING. Anyway as i asked Pawel (or other FreeBSD developers) if that attitude would become official or not in future - as it is very important. It doesn't really matter of that single detail. --2456600518-142706960-1341654410=:50444-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 10:10:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2CAD106566C; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:10:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6E588FC1D; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:10:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcje9 with SMTP id je9so4514630bkc.13 for ; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 03:10:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=NwdplvTPAo9dFCzt2tktfQUJfxl4OB6BBuS2tY+kIHA=; b=nSfOGuY0/9Fn2uwfsEDk49S6Viyh4po19mRBahyeJdpZVnSb4pZHDzHSh3joNrehkS iPaHXEiMOdImLAcLjxRAiaIlrVVjxJCWQMBaOInzQMMouapy0x+1CCS8lsGO1OePEuGS r1RpWNX27wYIjKaQtT6oy9lZsH4wXzQ1NXBPWA6vjyHaIGRibGCifQM6zi6+aPqE7xTY y+7a6/II74tJYQwpl3XTk4rRCkn7EkrntoQb3IJF1+ZOJKVyim38FQaCpk4uNcCLpMCC lqXKMfuD/qrEtTRDu3N0g6G1taJtYZfq3l3GW4txlDBfCjGfC2BkBTsBczOF/DQF4BYP 3FDA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.205.133.11 with SMTP id hw11mr2424782bkc.46.1341655848672; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 03:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.49.87 with HTTP; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 03:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.49.87 with HTTP; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 03:10:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <20120706201721.GB1437@garage.freebsd.pl> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 11:10:48 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jonathan McKeown , Pawel Jakub Dawidek Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 10:10:50 -0000 On Jul 7, 2012 10:46 AM, "Wojciech Puchar" wrote: >> >> This is not 'going down'. This is adding features to help newcomers. You are free to disable them. It will not remove anything > > this doesn't help newcomers. Just like "easy installers", "desktop environments" and so on. > > this only generate herds of morons that "know FreeBSD" and dissolve real user base. What is the 'real user base?' People who insult newcomers and call them morons? People who consider it cool to use a OS that is unnecessarily difficult to learn? Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 10:11:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8546D1065679; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:11:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD7CE8FC1C; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:11:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q67ABsNv070365; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 12:11:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q67ABrt7070362; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 12:11:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 12:11:53 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chris Rees In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <20120706201721.GB1437@garage.freebsd.pl> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="2456600518-88613874-1341655914=:70235" X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 07 Jul 2012 12:11:54 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jonathan McKeown , Pawel Jakub Dawidek Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 10:11:57 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --2456600518-88613874-1341655914=:70235 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > > this only generate herds of morons that "know FreeBSD" and dissolve real user base. > > What is the 'real user base?' People who insult newcomers and call them morons?  People who consider it cool to use a OS that is > unnecessarily difficult to learn? > in your way of seeing reality - probably yes. --2456600518-88613874-1341655914=:70235-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 10:59:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9C231065670 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:59:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pawel@dawidek.net) Received: from mail.dawidek.net (60.wheelsystems.com [83.12.187.60]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 659288FC12 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:59:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (89-73-195-149.dynamic.chello.pl [89.73.195.149]) by mail.dawidek.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42C9F43E; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 12:59:49 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 12:57:36 +0200 From: Pawel Jakub Dawidek To: Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <20120707105735.GD1437@garage.freebsd.pl> References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <20120706201721.GB1437@garage.freebsd.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7DO5AaGCk89r4vaK" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-OS: FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT amd64 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jonathan McKeown Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 10:59:57 -0000 --7DO5AaGCk89r4vaK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jul 07, 2012 at 11:25:07AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > something they probably don't even know about, than to skilled users to > > turn it off. > > > > If this feature is going to prints quite a few extra lines, let's just > > add one more line saying: > > > > To disable this message run: echo set 31337mode >> ~/.tcshrc > > > > --=20 > should i - from now, understand that this way of "extending" OS is=20 > considered right (i mean going down to newbies instead of going up) by=20 > FreeBSD developers? Not exactly. The "from now" part is a bit misleading. This is not starting now, we try hard to make FreeBSD easier to use, more consistent and friendlier in general for a long time now. In your terminology making FreeBSD easier for newcomers is "going down" implies that "going up" is to make it harder for newcomer. I hate to break it to you, but you are living upside down. > Please answer it is important for me, and many other people for a future. You should definiately pay more attention, as this is happening every day. Everyone was newcomer once. I didn't succeed on my first attempt to install FreeBSD, neither on the second attempt. It took me few tries to do it right. I knew nothing about UNIX back then. I consider myself as someone who improved FreeBSD a bit, but I could as easly gave up after first two failed attempts to install it and move to something easier. How many people gave up after first or second attempt and never looked back? --=20 Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheelsystems.com FreeBSD committer http://www.FreeBSD.org Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! http://tupytaj.pl --7DO5AaGCk89r4vaK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/4Fh8ACgkQForvXbEpPzQzIQCgkJaICUmCLYPYD5A7VojQCX32 ljUAn1xTGnUsE+cvpMSXAe2ySyCDJIcJ =DWM/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7DO5AaGCk89r4vaK-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 11:36:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 735D8106564A; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 11:36:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C431E8FC16; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 11:36:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q67BaM4i094887; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 13:36:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q67BaMCu094884; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 13:36:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 13:36:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Pawel Jakub Dawidek In-Reply-To: <20120707105735.GD1437@garage.freebsd.pl> Message-ID: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <20120706201721.GB1437@garage.freebsd.pl> <20120707105735.GD1437@garage.freebsd.pl> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 07 Jul 2012 13:36:22 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jonathan McKeown Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 11:36:26 -0000 > starting now, we try hard to make FreeBSD easier to use, more consistent > and friendlier in general for a long time now. > > In your terminology making FreeBSD easier for newcomers is "going > down" implies that "going up" is to make it harder for newcomer. No. It just quickly eliminate 99% of "newcomers" that would not go up ever anyway. > I hate to break it to you, but you are living upside down. As you already stated - it may be me or you - the view would be the same: other are upside down. > >> Please answer it is important for me, and many other people for a future. > > You should definiately pay more attention, as this is happening every day. > > Everyone was newcomer once. I didn't succeed on my first attempt to > install FreeBSD, neither on the second attempt. It took me few tries to > do it right. I knew nothing about UNIX back then. and that's right, this is the way human learns. This is contrary to modern linux distros that you may install not knowing anything, run not knowing anything and then still not known anything, being a newbie forever. Anyway thank you for an answer - i now have definite knowledge what will FreeBSD future look like because this is what i wanted. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 12:25:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8D43106566C; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 12:25:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stb@lassitu.de) Received: from gilb.zs64.net (gilb.zs64.net [IPv6:2a00:14b0:4200:32e0::1ea]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E8308FC1B; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 12:25:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gilb.zs64.net (Postfix, from stb@lassitu.de) id 13A0911D96F; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 12:25:38 +0000 (UTC) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Stefan Bethke In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 14:25:36 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Arnaud Lacombe X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Interfacing devices with multiple parents within newbus X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 12:25:39 -0000 Am 06.07.2012 um 17:33 schrieb Arnaud Lacombe: > I assume you are talking about = devclass_get_device()/device_find_child(). >=20 > That's neither correct nor robust in a couple of way: > 1) you have no guarantee a device unit will always give you the same = resource. > 2) there is no reference counting on the returned device. > 3) there is no track record of the reference being given. >=20 > About (1), lower unit devices can fails to attach[0], thus newly > attached bus will now have a negative offset. >=20 > About (2) and (3), referenced device (think KLD) might go away and the > child will not be told. In this situation, I want the child to be > detached prior to its parent. >=20 > As such, looking up other node by name would fit in what I call > "bypassing newbus purpose". I might just as well export a damn > function pointer and make my life easier. I believe there is one more thing that needs to be addressed, which I = ran into while trying to do the arge/mdio attachment: 4) the device attach method may require access to the other device to = complete the attachment, but that other might not be attached yet. Circular dependencies nonwithstanding, it would be highly desirable for = a device driver developer to be able to simply declare all prerequisites = for attachment, and have newbus call attach only after everything is = there. Right now, the drivers attach method is called by the parent bus = as soon as enumeration is completed. A notification mechanism (similar to the devfs notification but with an = exposed KPI) might be an alternative, as mentioned in this thread. Stefan --=20 Stefan Bethke Fon +49 151 14070811 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 16:02:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F2A2106566C for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 16:02:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28DB28FC1B for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 16:02:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so21099417obb.13 for ; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 09:02:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=R9TJmdrqpWp3aCYDP2Jc3EeCP62DFixE8mu0TeykeNA=; b=GY+CDEAY2O4sTtBmhSsm6lMZPufIq8hlatjw9Z3n8J2VN/9VQe4euCB3O7ECe871N1 XyzytriaPOhOnP5TAKIVSrupZLETlECIOl5GhTB+ANCpEAn01KelWzRsPGSE+ztoLuYZ 1wl1R8fzKaA7g6j7Sn4DBcjUHVLJEsJHsVyM302WKXxaZjF9jN724DJuQjS+QpAbFxV4 SejoIKIAVoiD4xy9RPR8Ql3wqhkmRkKuSZJ9WGQfoxguP++jKv6qlUqBzM7PHRDKBKNq IzuzwQoYrS27+g95BRkazF7+O9dZqsHarfUqdHcCgNSzjmTk5b1TS1S165BJhNpmJJic 9zGQ== Received: by 10.50.219.136 with SMTP id po8mr4722277igc.70.1341676938639; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 09:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 63.imp.bsdimp.com (50-78-194-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.78.194.198]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s4sm4953838igb.1.2012.07.07.09.02.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 07 Jul 2012 09:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:02:16 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7AAA45BE-520B-4753-823E-D17D1AB0A5E0@bsdimp.com> References: To: Stefan Bethke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn8ML/KELICJ2sWvM9ldeSgNpxzvUeOZYc9hBHnumfWmEV7BBlr5HAZH9Hvdn9vYoUPtSKC Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Current , Arnaud Lacombe Subject: Re: Interfacing devices with multiple parents within newbus X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:02:19 -0000 On Jul 7, 2012, at 6:25 AM, Stefan Bethke wrote: > Am 06.07.2012 um 17:33 schrieb Arnaud Lacombe: >=20 >> I assume you are talking about = devclass_get_device()/device_find_child(). >>=20 >> That's neither correct nor robust in a couple of way: >> 1) you have no guarantee a device unit will always give you the same = resource. >> 2) there is no reference counting on the returned device. >> 3) there is no track record of the reference being given. >>=20 >> About (1), lower unit devices can fails to attach[0], thus newly >> attached bus will now have a negative offset. >>=20 >> About (2) and (3), referenced device (think KLD) might go away and = the >> child will not be told. In this situation, I want the child to be >> detached prior to its parent. >>=20 >> As such, looking up other node by name would fit in what I call >> "bypassing newbus purpose". I might just as well export a damn >> function pointer and make my life easier. >=20 > I believe there is one more thing that needs to be addressed, which I = ran into while trying to do the arge/mdio attachment: >=20 > 4) the device attach method may require access to the other device to = complete the attachment, but that other might not be attached yet. >=20 > Circular dependencies nonwithstanding, it would be highly desirable = for a device driver developer to be able to simply declare all = prerequisites for attachment, and have newbus call attach only after = everything is there. Right now, the drivers attach method is called by = the parent bus as soon as enumeration is completed. The device should go ahead and attach. When multiple devices need to = communicate with each other, they need to coordinate things. newbus is = a weak coordination mechanism. Stronger coordination mechanisms would = be FDT or ACPI which can tie known devices to a device_t rather than to = just a name. The device_t will be around even if that device is = attached and detached. > A notification mechanism (similar to the devfs notification but with = an exposed KPI) might be an alternative, as mentioned in this thread. This would also work. However, many of proposed uses for this seem = more and more to me to need a non-newbus mechanism to cope with. You'll = absolutely require the notification method since devices can detach at = any time. Circular dependencies are way too easy to create. In the Atmel work I'm doing and have done, there's devices that provide = services to other devices (mostly pin muxing and GPIO). I don't try to = get the GPIO device to attach first, but rather have routines that can = be called to accomplish these things. During the early boot, I have to = use the GPIO device to turn on pins so that I can even talk to things = like the MII bus of the internal NIC. While the GPIO devices have = device_t's to allocate resources and to create dev_t nodes, I don't = marshal everything through newbus. When I want to map a pin as an = interrupt source for the PHY chip, that call is made directly. When I = need to shut off a device's pin and instead drive it via the GPIO logic, = that's just a call. etc. Warner= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 16:17:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506CA106566B for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 16:17:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1DB78FC15 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 16:17:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so10847735yen.13 for ; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 09:17:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=Lc+g/Opi0Ip7hD9PsWczrOW19lpvV+q7hAhwVfaSRmo=; b=Du4bYjbOByvUuDexOeJ7OMaUIpiTon93tjmbgkGGETtn5OepHP6yv6YL7VUGpPi0E6 veqQoVz7nMG7XsSBaI8j15iXJzzjXkIvIRuKpV0Hzv9ZsqfPchrQQLeVUouOHN7mH4xs VehBKexqc8vwExpIwg+hKb2qmImKfmZmFIIsHWNq+fFFBeyaoYgaTdjnl4NyiawgkaWb 0XM8xyGxsacw7QndD+Jp3s1jhPPAcE2nR4wXObHnVELJlPjYEJPfCO+ZhysD61Vj/fMz AHSNrC9wZJxf6knT+Cu00GPAj3qdREYTnGdUZMwDaCAp8kjJgfvRvzky8KkXEA3FtUwS qD9Q== Received: by 10.50.212.66 with SMTP id ni2mr4768026igc.66.1341677823235; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 09:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 63.imp.bsdimp.com (50-78-194-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.78.194.198]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id nh1sm4966628igc.11.2012.07.07.09.17.02 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 07 Jul 2012 09:17:02 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <1341601751.70246.7.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:17:01 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9855720B-9965-4A3B-B106-0A25EF3CA56F@bsdimp.com> References: <1341601751.70246.7.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> To: Ian Lepore X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn2EawzaJS1O4kbQ6PrYj2KindHRa+9ADoo8UwFvTRr6auM//1JRA2wKO6wOkjdkc0qhAJh Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Current , Arnaud Lacombe Subject: Re: Interfacing devices with multiple parents within newbus X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:17:04 -0000 On Jul 6, 2012, at 1:09 PM, Ian Lepore wrote: > Just blue-sky dreaming here on the fly... what we really have is a > resource-management problem. A device comes along that needs a GPIO > resource, how does it find and use that resource? =20 I rather like that idea. The connection between devices is more like = meta-data needed to obtain the resources/services that other devices = provide. You really want to talk in those terms, rather than in newbus = attachments. The platform told me that pin AT91_PIOA_12 is my interrupt line. I'd = like to wire up an ISR to that please. The platform told me that pin AT91_PIOC_33 is the data pin for my two = wire bus. An error happened and to reset it I need to tell the pin = muxing service to take it off line. then I need to tell the GPIO = service I have to force it high, let it flow, and force it low. The platform told me that this NIC is connected to PHY 2 on miibus 3. = I'm the NIC driver and want to connect. I'm the USB subsystem. I'd like to know if one or two usb ports are = connected to the HUB. The hardware can't tell me, so the platform code = has to give me hints. If I allocate the pins for each of those two = ports I'll know. In some configurations, I can get both sets. In = others, I can only get one set. All of those problems could be solved with newbus kobj connections. Or = they could be solved by the platform and/or drivers registering = resources and services and the other drivers in the system using it. = Multipass would help a lot with that, since you could probe/attach all = the service providers first, then everybody else could talk the higher = level interfaces. Warner P.S. multipass could solve the dependency problem, but in kinda a poor = way... From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 18:47:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECBB8106566B for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 18:47:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) Received: from qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.32]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CADCA8FC12 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 18:47:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.12]) by qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id XWWv1j0040FhH24A3WnoSt; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 18:47:48 +0000 Received: from damnhippie.dyndns.org ([24.8.232.202]) by omta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id XWnn1j00g4NgCEG8UWnnmC; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 18:47:48 +0000 Received: from [172.22.42.240] (revolution.hippie.lan [172.22.42.240]) by damnhippie.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q67IljpF009886; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 12:47:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) From: Ian Lepore To: Arnaud Lacombe In-Reply-To: References: <1341601751.70246.7.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 12:47:45 -0600 Message-ID: <1341686865.70246.22.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Interfacing devices with multiple parents within newbus X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 18:47:49 -0000 On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 16:45 -0400, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Ian Lepore > wrote: > > On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 14:46 -0400, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Arnaud Lacombe wrote: > >> > That's neither correct nor robust in a couple of way: > >> > 1) you have no guarantee a device unit will always give you the same resource. > >> this raises the following question: how can a device, today, figure > >> out which parent in a given devclass would give it access to resources > >> it needs. > >> > >> Say, you have gpiobus0 provided by a superio and gpiobus1 provided by > >> the chipset and a LED on the chipset's GPIO. Now, say gpiobus0 > >> attachment is conditional to some BIOS setting. How can you tell > >> gpioled(4) to attach on the chipset provided GPIO without hardcoding > >> unit number either way ? > >> > >> AFAIK, you can not. > >> > >> Even hints provided layout description is defeated. Each device in a > >> given devclass need to have a set of unique attribute to allow a child > >> to distinguish it from other potential parent in the same devclass... > >> > >> - Arnaud > > > > Talking about a child being unable to choose the correct parent seems to > > indicate that this whole problem is turned upside-down somehow; children > > don't choose their parents. > > > actually, I think I was wrong, I thought device were attached to a > devclass, but they are truly attached to a given device. My mistake. > > > Just blue-sky dreaming here on the fly... what we really have is a > > resource-management problem. A device comes along that needs a GPIO > > resource, how does it find and use that resource? > > > > Well, we have a resource manager, could that help somehow? Could a > > driver that provides access to GPIO somehow register its availability so > > that another driver can find and access it? The "resource" may be a > > callable interface, it doesn't really matter, I'm just wondering if the > > current rman stuff could be leveraged to help make the connection > > between unrelated devices. I think that implies that there would have > > to be something near the root of the hiearchy willing to be the > > owner/manager of dynamic resources. > > > AFAIR, rman is mostly there to manage memory vs. i/o mapped resources. > The more I think about it, the more FTD is the answer. The open > question now being "how to map a flexible device structure (FTD) to a > less flexible structure (Newbus)" :/ > > - Arnaud Memory- and IO-mapped regions and IRQs are the only current uses of rman (that I know of), but it was designed to be fairly agnostic about the resources it manages. It just works with ranges of values (that it really doesn't know how to interpret at all), leaving lots of room to define new types of things it can manage. The downside is that it's designed to be used hierarchically in the context of newbus, specifically to help parents manage the resources that they are able to provide to their children. Trying to use it in a way that allows devices which are hierarchically unrelated to allocate resources from each other may amount to a square-peg/round-hole situation. But the alternative is writing a new facility to allow registration and allocation of resources using some sort symbolic method of representing the resources such that the new manager doesn't have to know much about what it's managing. I think it would be better to find a way to reuse what we've already got if that's possible. I think we have two semi-related aspects to this problem... How do we symbolically represent the resources that drivers can provide to each other? (FDT may be the answer; I don't know much about it.) How do devices use that symbolic representation to locate the provider of the resource, and how is the sharing of those resources managed? -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 19:30:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 598CF106566C; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 19:30:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danger@FreeBSD.org) Received: from services.syscare.sk (services.syscare.sk [188.40.39.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 101328FC16; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 19:30:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from services.syscare.sk (services [188.40.39.36]) by services.syscare.sk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 327E210D8BF; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 21:30:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at rulez.sk Received: from services.syscare.sk ([188.40.39.36]) by services.syscare.sk (services.rulez.sk [188.40.39.36]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id noZiNr3VLF9B; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 21:30:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from danger-mbp.local (adsl-dyn250.91-127-100.t-com.sk [91.127.100.250]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: danger@rulez.sk) by services.syscare.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1B9EA10D8B1; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 21:30:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4FF88E80.9040205@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 21:31:12 +0200 From: Daniel Gerzo Organization: The FreeBSD Project User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; en-US; rv:1.9.2.29pre) Gecko/20120424 Lanikai/3.1.21pre MIME-Version: 1.0 To: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: HEADSUP: Call for FreeBSD Status Reports - 2Q/2012 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 19:30:59 -0000 Dear all, I would like to remind you that the next round of status reports covering the second quarter of 2012 are due on July 15th, 2012. As this initiative is very popular among our users, I would like to ask you to submit your entry as soon as possible, so that we can compile the report in a timely fashion. Do not hesitate and write us a few lines; a short description about what you are working on, what your plans and goals are, or any other information that you may consider interesting is always welcome. This way we can inform our community about your great work! Check out the reports from the past to get some inspiration of how your submission might look like. If you know about a project that should be included in the status report, please let us know as well, so we can poke the responsible people to provide us with something useful. Updates to submissions from the previous reports are welcome too. Note that the submissions are accepted from anyone involved within the FreeBSD community, you do not have to be a FreeBSD committer. Anything related to FreeBSD can be covered. Please email us the filled-in XML template which can be found at http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-sample.xml to monthly@FreeBSD.org, or alternatively use our web based form located at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/monthly.cgi. For more information, please visit http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/. We are looking forward to see your submissions! Thanks. -- Kind regards Daniel Gerzo From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 19:43:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB176106564A for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 19:43:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@dataix.net) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D348FC08 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 19:43:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so21390802obb.13 for ; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 12:43:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=6rZkofvpLUc+JbgvE8uKXtR4POM8qvk4lKIBTtB0BrQ=; b=PaoUGdOPlfxUAOxDM82ZlKirmylylpyWNkDGNj1c2uiB4gwzyQ2rMfuBRgAUDIIMKx fPiaC+KV3GZiDDi/RltTbO8DQMvnc8DaSXzY1Wi2m1F/k8mcozqhC6nDNSueyXF4/jUw lTsru7MRpQlIaMwUWrrAQ445o2t6tOH8IhvAQ= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-gm-message-state; bh=6rZkofvpLUc+JbgvE8uKXtR4POM8qvk4lKIBTtB0BrQ=; b=d65J5LyAoC9GA6LgQA4qbhaL4AUv07pCueXn0YgmRphRPUib6pzNnFKILcAeNjJcFP /pp2ediZWuAJtLg1B9oIcV/oKb7RuG/R2vU3IxzEm2zd8rk+aFS8uGR2/BMciyLoywUa Hhegljp+ISag3rJPr/G3SETFuGsZNF5poxrGbP2vJXXMj27TFsHYfR81ZDc0Pxwjvjkb Z3aC6Opb32uMn+KvsdcrwIHIOdwMZAWWVvqQiw7lofz6Xkx6Gvc/lm4r8CQZj21Vp9vy 983UM/QB75PL27Jjm+BUKzx3Pr/gHdgv8qw+exZwmImOoB/FMvOI8fSspoAONxQvCn57 71PQ== Received: by 10.50.196.232 with SMTP id ip8mr5135689igc.50.1341690180756; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 12:43:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (adsl-99-109-126-183.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net. [99.109.126.183]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bp8sm11483530igb.12.2012.07.07.12.42.59 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 07 Jul 2012 12:43:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q67IF6jd067553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 7 Jul 2012 14:15:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Received: (from jh@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q67IE6aA066675; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 14:14:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 14:14:06 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal To: Pawel Jakub Dawidek Message-ID: <20120707181406.GA53151@DataIX.net> References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <20120706201721.GB1437@garage.freebsd.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120706201721.GB1437@garage.freebsd.pl> X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmBiUW9H1J1g11uphiqg8AWXbhUt2o9u1TEMiBCQbmoAwRdA5VjVGxBNaCb+2xIWVMALmQ3 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jonathan McKeown Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 19:43:01 -0000 --xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 06, 2012 at 10:17:22PM +0200, Pawel Jakub Dawidek wrote: > On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 12:15:44PM +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote: > > On Thursday 05 July 2012 11:03:32 Doug Barton wrote: > > > If the new feature gets created, and you don't want to use it, turn it > > > off. No problem. > >=20 > > No. I think this is entirely the wrong way round. If the new feature is= =20 > > created and you want it, turn it on. Don't make me turn off something I= =20 > > didn't want in the first place. [...] >=20 > This feature is targeted at new users, for whom it is harder to turn on > something they probably don't even know about, than to skilled users to > turn it off. >=20 > If this feature is going to prints quite a few extra lines, let's just > add one more line saying: >=20 > To disable this message run: echo set 31337mode >> ~/.tcshrc >=20 LD_PRELOAD=3D ... would be more extensible as a library could react to a larger set of already built binaries without modification of the upstream code. And continue to work in the background while the shell drops back to a prompt and does not interupt the user. --=20 - (2^(N-1)) --xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJP+HxuAAoJEBSh2Dr1DU7Wm98H/3bwkVpF80lgEbVo95YMUtqY yn0MY4hOjRrLI95XHO11E0+40gWR8iSDkzcKNODvTL/XrXgYJKRMJH56ZQE1UrKz MidgmhiRHAbwAxXj4MksDKpkENxVRL8n9sbdgwWOh46haSHHGz55jvQys5g6SjhA pEDwmhO+8tjRqfCRtDj6vw+qo4bSsOzot5hbvu39Cyg/9oO5kqZW2sljgPWg3vEr 8verjl2CC3PI3WbiFoI19/2f4w8JySOqYwVuqje7dkZMb+h45ru5+e2jqoIzSsUn eKMmx7HKs3x5IfrXD2IgiwLy6rWAkasVNKUBkx8HJKXtRDr0/UI2JVGJy+uHOUo= =Jshj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 21:16:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 361F9106564A; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 21:16:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net) Received: from mx1.sbone.de (mx1.sbone.de [IPv6:2a01:4f8:130:3ffc::401:25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E86E28FC08; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 21:16:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dhcp-128-232-132-170.eduroam.csx.cam.ac.uk (dhcp-128-232-132-170.eduroam.csx.cam.ac.uk [128.232.132.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.sbone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7D77625D3878; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 21:16:56 +0000 (UTC) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" In-Reply-To: <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 21:16:55 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <89AB703D-E075-4AAC-AC1B-B358CC4E4E7F@lists.zabbadoz.net> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 21:16:58 -0000 On 3. Jul 2012, at 12:39 , Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > Doug Barton writes: >> The correct solution to this problem is to remove BIND from the base >> altogether, but I have no energy for all the whinging that would = happen >> if I tried (again) to do that. >=20 > I don't think there will be as much whinging as you expect. Times = have > changed. >=20 > I'm willing to import and maintain unbound (BSD-licensed validating, > recursive, and caching DNS resolver) if you remove BIND. I'd object to it. Trading one for another without gaining anything does not help us much. Don't get me wrong I have both running for years and even maintain = patches for unbound for 2 years now for functionality they do not provide, which named happily gives me. If you want to do this, I would prefer a properly laid out action plan as the import is by far the easiest but the integration into various parts of the system is harder. /bz --=20 Bjoern A. Zeeb You have to have visions! It does not matter how good you are. It matters what good you do! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 23:17:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A31A106564A; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:17:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A849914D8E8; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:17:53 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF8C3A1.9080805@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:17:53 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120621 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <89AB703D-E075-4AAC-AC1B-B358CC4E4E7F@lists.zabbadoz.net> In-Reply-To: <89AB703D-E075-4AAC-AC1B-B358CC4E4E7F@lists.zabbadoz.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 23:17:54 -0000 On 07/07/2012 14:16, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: > > On 3. Jul 2012, at 12:39 , Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > >> Doug Barton writes: >>> The correct solution to this problem is to remove BIND from the base >>> altogether, but I have no energy for all the whinging that would happen >>> if I tried (again) to do that. >> >> I don't think there will be as much whinging as you expect. Times have >> changed. >> >> I'm willing to import and maintain unbound (BSD-licensed validating, >> recursive, and caching DNS resolver) if you remove BIND. > > I'd object to it. Trading one for another without gaining anything does > not help us much. Au contraire. It solves the problem of BIND release cycles not matching up with ours. This is a very important problem to solve. I've already written at length as to what I think the dream solution is, but we don't have anyone willing to code that yet, and even if we did, there is no guarantee that we'd get the buy-in to make it happen. In addition to being a good first step, doing this for DNS will also help us shake out the exact issues you allude to below. > Don't get me wrong I have both running for years and even maintain patches > for unbound for 2 years now for functionality they do not provide, which > named happily gives me. Other than authoritative DNS, what features does unbound lack that you want? > If you want to do this, I would prefer a properly laid out action plan > as the import is by far the easiest but the integration into various > parts of the system is harder. BIND in the base today comes with a full-featured local resolver configuration, which I'm confident that Dag-Erling can do for unbound (and which I would be glad to assist with if needed). Other than that, what integration are you concerned about? ... and just in case, these are sincere "project requirement gathering" questions, I'm not attempting to be snarky in any way. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 23:34:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0878C1065672; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:34:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net) Received: from mx1.sbone.de (mx1.sbone.de [IPv6:2a01:4f8:130:3ffc::401:25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A338E8FC1B; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:34:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dhcp-128-232-132-170.eduroam.csx.cam.ac.uk (dhcp-128-232-132-170.eduroam.csx.cam.ac.uk [128.232.132.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.sbone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 64A7825D3891; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:34:46 +0000 (UTC) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" In-Reply-To: <4FF8C3A1.9080805@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:34:45 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0AFE3C4A-22DB-4134-949F-4D05BBFC4C6C@lists.zabbadoz.net> References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <89AB703D-E075-4AAC-AC1B-B358CC4E4E7F@lists.zabbadoz.net> <4FF8C3A1.9080805@FreeBSD.org> To: Doug Barton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 23:34:49 -0000 On 7. Jul 2012, at 23:17 , Doug Barton wrote: > On 07/07/2012 14:16, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: >>=20 >> On 3. Jul 2012, at 12:39 , Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: >>=20 >>> Doug Barton writes: >>>> The correct solution to this problem is to remove BIND from the = base >>>> altogether, but I have no energy for all the whinging that would = happen >>>> if I tried (again) to do that. >>>=20 >>> I don't think there will be as much whinging as you expect. Times = have >>> changed. >>>=20 >>> I'm willing to import and maintain unbound (BSD-licensed validating, >>> recursive, and caching DNS resolver) if you remove BIND. >>=20 >> I'd object to it. Trading one for another without gaining anything = does >> not help us much. >=20 > Au contraire. It solves the problem of BIND release cycles not = matching > up with ours. This is a very important problem to solve. Right and unbound et al are better? Bind at least gives us long term support releases these days. We just need to make sure we pick them for releases. > I've already written at length as to what I think the dream solution = is, > but we don't have anyone willing to code that yet, and even if we did, > there is no guarantee that we'd get the buy-in to make it happen. In > addition to being a good first step, doing this for DNS will also help > us shake out the exact issues you allude to below. >=20 >> Don't get me wrong I have both running for years and even maintain = patches >> for unbound for 2 years now for functionality they do not provide, = which >> named happily gives me. >=20 > Other than authoritative DNS, what features does unbound lack that you = want? DNS64 as a start. I don't care about the auth. support really with what = is in base; it is nice that it comes for free and it is nice, that I'll not run into port 53 conflicts on single-IP systems .... but the only thing = we really need is a caching resolver. >> If you want to do this, I would prefer a properly laid out action = plan >> as the import is by far the easiest but the integration into various >> parts of the system is harder. >=20 > BIND in the base today comes with a full-featured local resolver > configuration, which I'm confident that Dag-Erling can do for unbound > (and which I would be glad to assist with if needed). Other than that, > what integration are you concerned about? startup scripts; resolvconf, named.conf -> unbound.conf guides for our = users, and not solving the issue that we really want a DNSSEC enabled caching resolver with libc APIs for applications to use DNSSEC in base that = people are working on. We will probably need a crpyto and most likely also an external dnssec speaking resolver library for this in the future, but which of the 7 it will be we don't know yet. /bz --=20 Bjoern A. Zeeb You have to have visions! It does not matter how good you are. It matters what good you do! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 23:40:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA051065694 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:40:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E83815772A; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:38:56 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF8C890.9030408@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:38:56 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120621 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garrett Wollman References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <89AB703D-E075-4AAC-AC1B-B358CC4E4E7F@lists.zabbadoz.net> <4FF8C3A1.9080805@FreeBSD.org> <20472.51031.308284.775990@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20472.51031.308284.775990@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" , FreeBSD Hackers , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= Subject: Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 23:40:05 -0000 On 07/07/2012 16:33, Garrett Wollman wrote: > < said: > >> BIND in the base today comes with a full-featured local resolver >> configuration, which I'm confident that Dag-Erling can do for unbound >> (and which I would be glad to assist with if needed). Other than that, >> what integration are you concerned about? > > The utilities (specifically host(1) and dig(1)) are the only > user-visible interfaces I care about. I don't see any need for there > to be an authoritative name server in the base system. So long as the > resolver works properly and does DNSsec validation.... I addressed the utils in a previous message, but once more ... ldns (a dependency of unbound) comes with drill, which is a dig-alike tool. I'd like to see us produce a host-alike based on ldns as well, which should be a pretty simple "junior hacker task" for a motivated group. If those don't do it for you, ports/dns/bind-tools already exists. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 23:45:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72FD106566B; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:45:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DB8C14DB28; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:45:58 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FF8CA35.7040209@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:45:57 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120621 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" References: <4FF2E00E.2030502@FreeBSD.org> <86bojxow6x.fsf@ds4.des.no> <89AB703D-E075-4AAC-AC1B-B358CC4E4E7F@lists.zabbadoz.net> <4FF8C3A1.9080805@FreeBSD.org> <0AFE3C4A-22DB-4134-949F-4D05BBFC4C6C@lists.zabbadoz.net> In-Reply-To: <0AFE3C4A-22DB-4134-949F-4D05BBFC4C6C@lists.zabbadoz.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 23:45:59 -0000 On 07/07/2012 16:34, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: > On 7. Jul 2012, at 23:17 , Doug Barton wrote: > >> On 07/07/2012 14:16, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: >>> >>> On 3. Jul 2012, at 12:39 , Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: >>> >>>> Doug Barton writes: >>>>> The correct solution to this problem is to remove BIND from the base >>>>> altogether, but I have no energy for all the whinging that would happen >>>>> if I tried (again) to do that. >>>> >>>> I don't think there will be as much whinging as you expect. Times have >>>> changed. >>>> >>>> I'm willing to import and maintain unbound (BSD-licensed validating, >>>> recursive, and caching DNS resolver) if you remove BIND. >>> >>> I'd object to it. Trading one for another without gaining anything does >>> not help us much. >> >> Au contraire. It solves the problem of BIND release cycles not matching >> up with ours. This is a very important problem to solve. > > Right and unbound et al are better? Bind at least gives us long term > support releases these days. We just need to make sure we pick them > for releases. > > >> I've already written at length as to what I think the dream solution is, >> but we don't have anyone willing to code that yet, and even if we did, >> there is no guarantee that we'd get the buy-in to make it happen. In >> addition to being a good first step, doing this for DNS will also help >> us shake out the exact issues you allude to below. >> >>> Don't get me wrong I have both running for years and even maintain patches >>> for unbound for 2 years now for functionality they do not provide, which >>> named happily gives me. >> >> Other than authoritative DNS, what features does unbound lack that you want? > > DNS64 as a start. Personally I would classify that as a highly-specialized request, and would point you to the bind* ports. I acknowledge that others may have a different view. > I don't care about the auth. support really with what is > in base; it is nice that it comes for free and it is nice, that I'll not > run into port 53 conflicts on single-IP systems .... but the only thing we > really need is a caching resolver. It's good that we agree on that bit at least. >>> If you want to do this, I would prefer a properly laid out action plan >>> as the import is by far the easiest but the integration into various >>> parts of the system is harder. >> >> BIND in the base today comes with a full-featured local resolver >> configuration, which I'm confident that Dag-Erling can do for unbound >> (and which I would be glad to assist with if needed). Other than that, >> what integration are you concerned about? > > startup scripts; Obviously that would be part of the import, and it should go without saying that I'm glad to help with that as well, if my help is needed. > resolvconf, There is code in the rc.d/named script that handles this which can be copied pretty much verbatim (or possibly factored out into its own script). Other than that I'm not aware of any BIND integration for this. > named.conf -> unbound.conf guides for our users, ACK > and not solving the issue that we really want a DNSSEC enabled caching > resolver with libc APIs for applications to use DNSSEC in base that people > are working on. We will probably need a crpyto and most likely also an > external dnssec speaking resolver library for this in the future, but > which of the 7 it will be we don't know yet. Yes, but that's a totally different issue. Also re DNSSEC integration in the base, I've stated before that I believe very strongly that any kind of hard-coding of trust anchors as part of the base resolver setup is a bad idea, and should not be done. We need to leverage the ports system for this so that we don't get stuck with a scenario where we have stale stuff in the base that is hard for users to upgrade. I have a POC for this for BIND that I need to finish, and I'm confident that something similar for unbound would not be difficult. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection