From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 17 20:00:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB04F78D; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 20:00:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 601468FC18; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 20:00:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 16so4790120obc.13 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 12:00:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=eEZebhEa120cHs09zQV+wxTjYj+r9MyZMv6nxLZhZjo=; b=kNicltchmN65YQ4qJmaUOz6v+etBw+e0sRV2evlJFaljKUDqvpJ6H6tnV13jGzCLUG kNn63zV/HCsrJ3n0DZwiSAkySFJBJSkzi/o//VeQSczturmG2yXWE8EKhVOSqDAhegXz FJhK8FMODiVEFWwOZhfUTrfBuQwVfyCTHXC2I/0wVADAawIzOmZPjbZlftfDUxtwGGeC MK+O6ZUBpHhehAhXk6KHpTxnungYeS9VRP5fawQts1bYJU1rIy1KnRWRffTfgrCtr8rz BJLeD319zojEStRmK73prxv9w/NDHp+HOrSE99xiRVq5l+a9zDfprJKBvs2NS9sA3GOM 83Xg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.2.103 with SMTP id 7mr7104777oet.79.1353182406751; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 12:00:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.68.39 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 12:00:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 15:00:06 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: grarpamp To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 01:56:49 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 20:00:12 -0000 http://www.freebsd.org/news/2012-compromise.html http://it.slashdot.org/story/12/11/17/143219/freebsd-project-discloses-security-breach-via-stolen-ssh-key This is not about this incident, but about why major opensource projects need to be using a repository that has traceable, verifiable, built-in cryptographic authentication. Any of hundreds of committer and admin accounts could be compromised with the attacker silently editing the repo. The same applies to any of those accounts going rogue. Backtrack diffing from a breach to 'see what changed' is not the ideal option. You really need to be using a strong repo so that any attack on it is null from the start. Another problem is bit rot wherever it may occur... disk, hardware, the wire, EMP and other systems. As it is now, we have no way to verify that what we get on pressed CD's, ISO's, FTP sites, torrents, etc is strongly linked back to the original repo. Signing over a hash of the ISO is *not* the same as including the strong repo hash (commit) that was used to build the release and then signing over that and the ISO. We can't know that our local repository updates match the master. ports.tar.gz has no authentication either. Nor does anything in the entire project that originates from the current SVN/CVS repo... webpages, docs, tools, source tarballs, etc. The FTP packages aren't signed, and there are weak MD5's used in various parts of the install/package tools, mirrors, etc. We can't trade hashes amongst people. It's all just a bunch of random bits that someone may or may not have signed over. And even if signed they still wouldn't be strongly linked back to the master repo. Having such a disconnect at the root of everything you do is simply not good practice these days. And these days, Git is what people and projects are moving to, and its rate of adoption and prevalence have essentially won out over all the rest in the new 'revision control 2.0 world'. And knowing Git is now more or less essential if you want to participate in a wide variety of community development, ref: github, etc. The FreeBSD project needs to be providing both itself, and its users and benefactors with verifiable assurance that its repository, and any copies and derived products, are authentic and intact. Don't argue against such a repository feature, or the cost to move, or bury your head in the sand by saying it could never happen to us... Take this as a real opportunity to lead amongst the major opensource projects like Linux, and among the BSD's (like DragonFly has), and move to Git. Once the root is fixed, you can push out secure distribution and update models from there. It all starts at the root and can't be done without it. https://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-fsck.html Verifies the connectivity and validity of the objects in the database http://git-scm.com/about/info-assurance The data model that Git uses ensures the cryptographic integrity of every bit of your project. Every file and commit is checksummed and retrieved by its checksum when checked back out. It's impossible to get anything out of Git other than the exact bits you put in. It is also impossible to change any file, date, commit message, or any other data in a Git repository without changing the IDs of everything after it. This means that if you have a commit ID, you can be assured not only that your project is exactly the same as when it was committed, but that nothing in its history was changed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software) The Git history is stored in such a way that the id of a particular revision (a "commit" in Git terms) depends upon the complete development history leading up to that commit. Once it is published, it is not possible to change the old versions without it being noticed. The structure is similar to a hash tree, but with additional data at the nodes as well as the leaves. Some references... http://git-scm.com/ https://github.com/ http://gitweb.dragonflybsd.org/dragonfly.git https://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 00:03:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 456A5AEB for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:03:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mcdouga9@egr.msu.edu) Received: from mail.egr.msu.edu (gribble.egr.msu.edu [35.9.37.169]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 157118FC08 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:03:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gribble (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.egr.msu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C3C573699; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 18:53:58 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at egr.msu.edu Received: from mail.egr.msu.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by gribble (gribble.egr.msu.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fk06nD08gfUg; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 18:53:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from EGR authenticated sender Message-ID: <50A8239D.3080008@egr.msu.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 18:54:05 -0500 From: Adam McDougall User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Zaphod Beeblebrox , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Jumbo Packet fail. References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 01:57:04 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:03:10 -0000 On 11/17/2012 5:32 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: > I recently started using an iSCSI disk on my ZFS array seriously from > a windows 7 host on the network. The performance is acceptable, but I > was led to believe that using Jumbo packets is a win here. My win7 > motherboard adapter did not support jumbo frames, so I got one that > did... configured it, etc. Just in case anyone cares, the motherboard > had an 82567V-2 (does not support jumbo frames) and I added in an > intel 82574L based card. > > Similarly, I configured em0 on my FreeBSD host to have an MTU of 9014 > bytes (I also tried 9000). The hardware on the FreeBSD 9.1RC2 side > is: > > em0: port 0xdc00-0xdc1f > mem 0xfcfe0000-0xfcffffff,0xfcfc0000-0xfcfdffff irq 16 at device 0.0 > on pci3 > > pciconf -lv identifies the chipset as 82572EI > > Now... my problem is that the windows machine correctly advertises an > MSS of 8960 bytes in it's SYN packet while FreeBSD advertises 1460 in > the syn-ack. > > [1:42:342]root@vr:/usr/local/etc/istgt> ifconfig em0 > em0: flags=8843 metric 0 mtu 9014 > options=4019b > ether 00:15:17:0d:04:a8 > inet 66.96.20.52 netmask 0xffffffe0 broadcast 66.96.20.63 > inet6 fe80::215:17ff:fe0d:4a8%em0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x5 > inet6 2001:1928:1::52 prefixlen 64 > inet 192.168.221.2 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.221.255 > nd6 options=21 > media: Ethernet autoselect (1000baseT ) > status: active > > I have tested this with both ipv4 and ipv6 connections between the > win7 host and the FreeBSD server. win7 always requests the larger > mss, and FreeBSD the smaller. Did you reboot or alter the existing route so it also uses the higher MTU? I realize that need is not obvious. Check netstat -rni. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 02:20:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEDC914E for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 02:20:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zbeeble@gmail.com) Received: from mail-la0-f54.google.com (mail-la0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D70C8FC0C for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 02:20:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-la0-f54.google.com with SMTP id j13so3677337lah.13 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 18:20:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=V0jZNTSawii8rvr0bjMqqcxBno4WUk/Gi5p3zNK0Xa8=; b=QhGgxxVaU95zF++7qp3J1+sGbsu/iGi8wPkW5zOSXaevaPnJUYIWyotGduwdAFxLOO 5DAp33K5Zx+ywWUlBrMjzeTGJGrWEe54OYtBBu+pTVDBIuijZM5ZTxsKuV2RvNRWFCQP wk9SxUFe/4T5D5tWFwfpu0GS5OvT0VPD8r9TiOUNUXpUfq4ggM7xvlycmDyy+T01ZIn2 pr2G7THoN4MpeX7UHm7egI/31YneA1LRABzKgGUFG6Ne3n6mUdkHTxNd7SnX80e6kxSi fjGV0nHjwxmzElIoA9t7t8ilBapIN6Gp3QM5rhVpn6waXCWV4ZTq5NE43z6IWJY6FBii Sh7Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.108.37 with SMTP id hh5mr8116566lab.52.1353205216719; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 18:20:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.49.138 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 18:20:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <50A8239D.3080008@egr.msu.edu> References: <50A8239D.3080008@egr.msu.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 21:20:16 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Jumbo Packet fail. From: Zaphod Beeblebrox To: Adam McDougall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 02:20:19 -0000 On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Adam McDougall wrote: > On 11/17/2012 5:32 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: [my description of MTU not having effect on MSS, deleted] > Did you reboot or alter the existing route so it also uses the higher MTU? I > realize that need is not obvious. Check netstat -rni. O I C. I understand why it is, but it's a small surprise to me. This brings up a related issue: The syntax for things I don't do often with route and friends (I suppose I would include netstat and sometimes even ifconfig) is difficult to remember and difficult to discern. As an example, going from your first post, I might want to do something like: route change 192.168.221.84 mtu 9014 ... but this doesn't work. In fact, part of this problem is that the route doesn't have an easy to specify destination, but it's also because it's not clear how to indicate the mtu change. It's similarly hard to specify ipv6 addresses for route et. al. And the man pages are of little help here. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 04:56:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96084956; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 04:56:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-da0-f54.google.com (mail-da0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FC518FC0C; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 04:56:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-da0-f54.google.com with SMTP id z9so1806751dad.13 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 20:55:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=r4Spnbd7JOUMfsBpUZ/uOQlZGUob0EWVY4OIQYmJxBw=; b=GDJSKEIiK+yGTAgOyhKwDJR+iBD1vp41mNsyMMMCnV3ve8E8n1g+uELrV3E3Do4sCx 4ndMeHdZEi/2QfpwFPlsqpggr6dOXWzmGOswkq5s5S3xTrHtC0HLPZSG0LE9zGL2ZeQS HIQw38MXcBO27HcuAkXtN9qVC1INkZXuOYHHbq2j3AybuBGGA5BMy+q1TOF5t7g+S0cd 5npXVgmg4qLkzhY/qX0CcEbErM2PhWxI3+2C1NRjeSR65f/2PI/isw2N8rDEH5SpTB73 wM+a0q8irQWSK+oZkJbaDVpM95p+7LO7s5HqhuJ9tioEK7DBYGEvcrMAkRbw7sZTh+MO /D6A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.137.41 with SMTP id qf9mr28898631pbb.103.1353214554609; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 20:55:54 -0800 (PST) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.68.124.130 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 20:55:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 20:55:54 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: tMFF_cYfztIW57aV4vV_M78FNAU Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: Adrian Chadd To: grarpamp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 04:56:00 -0000 [snip] There's a git repository. It's public. You can look at what goes into the FreeBSD git clone to get your assurance that things aren't being snuck in. People are using it, right now. Honestly, I'd rather see subversion grow this kind of cryptographic signing of each commit in the short term then migrate everyone over to git. Those who want to use git can use it, right now. Honest. Adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 05:21:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0253DEB2; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 05:21:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rsimmons0@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E4F78FC08; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 05:21:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lb0-f182.google.com with SMTP id go10so1113897lbb.13 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 21:21:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=cFFz8NUEKjvvnWESvbfeMldTh3XXNvPljiBnbVgHkfI=; b=xj0yJOtCRqhSGj0ruH9AUzTepAQH72wa3NzWdScNEhMt4SMg5iBy59WRHDAXdSxTPB xF44F8DuG5jdY8inR+T1qNZnHE1+pKLmngyM0fgRH8i9yUzsKOm6F3QpS2t+Fb3aqmWq 33P/KzWmoyVVMWXdol+FiAuTr2dWCPju3np387VDKY80g3MD/41Xis1oid/4ItUtKrT8 S/rcJKdgfv8/FxlXnj9G1+GAd2TfS2/u65EhkkjmlAHEB8Jp3s9dVhIaBhbaSIUBr+BK E2sZHvY9sS8JbUhpluR8EGA9vX7qCfXu6pD1V/YUxDG0MIYrsdXNanhAGDyuR6+bGYVN 8EuQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.162.1 with SMTP id xw1mr8449830lab.3.1353216081458; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 21:21:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.135.104 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 21:21:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:21:21 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: Robert Simmons To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:04:32 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 05:21:24 -0000 On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 11:55 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > Those who want to use git can use it, right now. Honest. Yup: https://github.com/freebsd/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 07:13:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96FB75AE for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 07:13:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (agora.rdrop.com [IPv6:2607:f678:1010::34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6770C8FC13 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 07:13:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (66@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id qAI7D3bQ013566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 17 Nov 2012 23:13:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.14.2/Submit) with UUCP id qAI7D3wO013565; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 23:13:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from fbsd81 ([192.168.200.81]) by pluto.rain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-pluto-M2060407) id AA25429; Sat, 17 Nov 12 23:06:01 PST Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 23:05:40 -0800 From: perryh@pluto.rain.com (Perry Hutchison) To: utisoft@gmail.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] Message-Id: <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: nail 11.25 7/29/05 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: fidaj@ukr.net, gmx@ross.cx, grarpamp@gmail.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 07:13:05 -0000 [trimmed some of the lists] Chris Rees wrote: > ... git doesn't work with our workflow. I'm sure the workflow itself is documented somewhere, but is there a good writeup of _how_ git doesn't work with it, e.g. what capabilit{y,ies} is/are missing? Seems this might be of interest to the git developers, not because they necessarily want to support FreeBSD as such, but as an example of a real-world workflow that git currently does not handle well. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 07:31:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C05D7820 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 07:31:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2169B8FC08 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 07:31:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from tom.home (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAI7VSeS035672; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:31:28 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.7.1 kib.kiev.ua qAI7VSeS035672 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id qAI7VSJV035671; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:31:28 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:31:28 +0200 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Perry Hutchison Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] Message-ID: <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fQ0hhV1MSQgTI7+i" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FREEMAIL_FROM,NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on tom.home Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 07:31:32 -0000 --fQ0hhV1MSQgTI7+i Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 11:05:40PM -0800, Perry Hutchison wrote: > [trimmed some of the lists] >=20 > Chris Rees wrote: > > ... git doesn't work with our workflow. >=20 > I'm sure the workflow itself is documented somewhere, but is > there a good writeup of _how_ git doesn't work with it, e.g. what > capabilit{y,ies} is/are missing? Seems this might be of interest > to the git developers, not because they necessarily want to support > FreeBSD as such, but as an example of a real-world workflow that git > currently does not handle well. Git would work well with our workflow. It supports the centralized repository model, which the project employs right now. The biggest issues, assuming the project indeed decides to move to Git right now, are the migration costs, both in the term of the technical efforts needed, and the learning curve for the most population of the committers. Relatively minor problem, at least with the current rate of the commits, would be a commit race, when the shared repo head forwarded due to the parallel commit. The issue should be somewhat mitigated by the Git allowance to push a set of changes in one push. --fQ0hhV1MSQgTI7+i Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJQqI7QAAoJEJDCuSvBvK1BIfsP/1XBBfdRgtEsISk9NWNuq50u 1Mk48HB0gFY9WiIUpBS1DhpmXaTVM4QgG8Jk87fzwMsrqu3v+5/ceM/qeWweGxNJ sfozX6jR/GT97+UeV/OuvVDB1t+8bCrS5gtMdDIa5hs1ADt8nwc4FsR6K06Y5HYQ +urrpIopxNkemOXaxaHMpORt8qZhQyl3YqIqAKmmtsQXC5wK2eOKiWH0E2+wh4sx x8lQFFT7xn4v0AamWTLVakP9AXmTPomZOJNTB0knmVC+hz8bMEF1FVDMgTM+1ohd 6vY9MRVQk/Bu+aiPGWurs80eBEu1rD0emhw03bhVEGQVl2cLvtlB604Tjtf+VRA6 /8l5MKrTrrcayf2eKlma3QsadfDTIr8I1bhM74LSc4vuoPyyAQpWYSIVVC78hhaQ njGQOAUxDyUgGifD0hrfi+pYIH8G8GsN2L0WpyjmdCRwJiJH9sCrbyKzKHam8ldh fQqZ1wSiuscAC9jaN0HLIZ3LiUhlL0yOORmAhpuIm3KYecoylIFEhN/Ziu0P4mJv 1pHMXqbgWf0QWiAb07AqT5vPnFriA4Osf6O0QhYpKNwyg9U0Qk/1CTm6XKdKFClI GPMMu2KdqtRLrZ50jkwHrcwKPBVHUmTdqMV6kMq1UgDRb6ppK+9T9YFwZed59Jfv 0gq2i4nvuTnv4Kh/RIBU =bEDc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fQ0hhV1MSQgTI7+i-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 08:15:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B61CD65 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 08:15:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06B348FC12 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 08:15:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id wz12so2953074pbc.13 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:15:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=wFpTo2RlLfWUKkYjaKoRewE1Ko6NI1i+za8/ASV2yHk=; b=SfEUFtXIHI46+aixRDbgp1UrYpLomlDHKXx1cLHH7/TPRQnPEEbAyc8v4hNgT1oWvQ M1Kg0nRkhjEM1xRJRIqRa0DOlEzHbFsYwVsNutTywaLgQrAkf7e5/dr5Z2W/SFx58i99 uc88JXNqo24jUarCTigVIVE6dKZ3vLNDp7d9ss7oBpr8Fyjbzeazu/BdeiRHCoVGRrKp gWco9r25dgegP8n5ZA5eftwh06KcsfC/fLsbQfhSgE0dmAmqi9caf97ZQAx+t60s9v0g LhekrvZRrgRTvMbUz+F9oZraaYYU79UFIBDu3YaooFd+vINEMY7U7zMUaPGnClzVkgSr tOOQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.137.41 with SMTP id qf9mr29693805pbb.103.1353226512464; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:15:12 -0800 (PST) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.68.124.130 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:15:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:15:12 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: c9W5YXtJqZr22LHWaj9_fn5o5GE Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: Adrian Chadd To: Konstantin Belousov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Perry Hutchison X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 08:15:13 -0000 On 17 November 2012 23:31, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > Git would work well with our workflow. It supports the centralized > repository model, which the project employs right now. It may work with your workflow, but it doesn't work with mine. :-) Right now the source tree isn't very good at building drivers from a full HEAD checkout on a -9 or -8 running system. The include paths end up pulling from the local sys/net directory, for example, rather than falling through to the specified kernel build and kernel source path. So at least for me, working almost exclusively in driver/stack land, I can do sparse check out of only the bits that I'm working on. It lets me get work done without having to run an up to date -HEAD (and keep said install up to date.) I also do development on little old netbooks with SSDs that would make it prohibitive to checkout multiple git trees. No, using git on a USB/CF/etc card doesn't work very well either I'm afraid. I'm sure there are other use cases. Adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 08:18:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95DE0E85 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 08:18:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@FreeBSD.org) Received: from felyko.com (felyko.com [IPv6:2607:f2f8:a528::3:1337:ca7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71C1F8FC08 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 08:18:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2601:9:4d00:85:29ff:bbc4:fa98:46d2] (unknown [IPv6:2601:9:4d00:85:29ff:bbc4:fa98:46d2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by felyko.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B3CD33981E; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:18:24 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: Rui Paulo In-Reply-To: <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:18:23 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <163A6B50-3214-4711-BDF2-3882D15B99AF@FreeBSD.org> References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> To: Perry Hutchison X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: fidaj@ukr.net, gmx@ross.cx, grarpamp@gmail.com, utisoft@gmail.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 08:18:25 -0000 On 17 Nov 2012, at 23:05, Perry Hutchison wrote: > [trimmed some of the lists] > > Chris Rees wrote: >> ... git doesn't work with our workflow. > > I'm sure the workflow itself is documented somewhere, but is > there a good writeup of _how_ git doesn't work with it, e.g. what > capabilit{y,ies} is/are missing? Seems this might be of interest > to the git developers, not because they necessarily want to support > FreeBSD as such, but as an example of a real-world workflow that git > currently does not handle well. Peter had something to say about it: http://wiki.freebsd.org/GitDrawbacks Regards, -- Rui Paulo From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 10:44:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43FF2A6A; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 10:44:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lev@FreeBSD.org) Received: from onlyone.friendlyhosting.spb.ru (onlyone.friendlyhosting.spb.ru [IPv6:2a01:4f8:131:60a2::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8A0E8FC0C; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 10:44:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lion.home.serebryakov.spb.ru (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:923f:1:cc83:142f:c735:4700]) (Authenticated sender: lev@serebryakov.spb.ru) by onlyone.friendlyhosting.spb.ru (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 19D234AC1C; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:44:43 +0400 (MSK) Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:44:41 +0400 From: Lev Serebryakov X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <583715708.20121118144441@serebryakov.spb.ru> To: Adrian Chadd Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org, grarpamp , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 10:44:45 -0000 Hello, Adrian. You wrote 18 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1=D1=80=D1=8F 2012 =D0=B3., 8:55:54: AC> There's a git repository. It's public. You can look at what goes into AC> the FreeBSD git clone to get your assurance that things aren't being AC> snuck in. People are using it, right now. But commits in this repo aren't signed by developers../ --=20 // Black Lion AKA Lev Serebryakov From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 10:49:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B864CD9; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 10:49:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1E68FC0C; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 10:48:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id MAA01458; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:48:50 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1Ta2Qk-0008x9-Dt; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:48:50 +0200 Message-ID: <50A8BD0F.7030609@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:48:47 +0200 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121030 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Chadd Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, Perry Hutchison X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 10:49:01 -0000 on 18/11/2012 10:15 Adrian Chadd said the following: > On 17 November 2012 23:31, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > >> Git would work well with our workflow. It supports the centralized >> repository model, which the project employs right now. > > It may work with your workflow, but it doesn't work with mine. :-) > > Right now the source tree isn't very good at building drivers from a > full HEAD checkout on a -9 or -8 running system. > > The include paths end up pulling from the local sys/net directory, for > example, rather than falling through to the specified kernel build and > kernel source path. > > So at least for me, working almost exclusively in driver/stack land, I > can do sparse check out of only the bits that I'm working on. It lets > me get work done without having to run an up to date -HEAD (and keep > said install up to date.) I also do development on little old netbooks > with SSDs that would make it prohibitive to checkout multiple git > trees. No, using git on a USB/CF/etc card doesn't work very well > either I'm afraid. > > I'm sure there are other use cases. What you describe is not a workflow issue, but a local development environment(s) setup issue. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 08:21:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23520F86; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 08:21:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@felyko.com) Received: from felyko.com (felyko.com [174.136.100.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2F098FC12; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 08:21:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2601:9:4d00:85:29ff:bbc4:fa98:46d2] (unknown [IPv6:2601:9:4d00:85:29ff:bbc4:fa98:46d2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by felyko.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0FE4D39828; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:21:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=felyko.com; s=mail; t=1353226893; bh=hFmeFP1ra3uyuUUNlrBrGZHdAZh3mVbpd1B9GQiNWvY=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=RneZDGjJf82VvqkGiH0lgECJfc9f2QbGHOKBh5lAvGX3KzWYMtTa1tT1Qih5ONkkc BUtEeCiovBZu8ZyGjtPxE9e2/tGowlru1PPXUccf9q6k9yXytEvCJsdJAjBUKEvFcP tOR1yRBfhsNy4PD1xgaJyQ4TWm+oPsLJCSS/Ryaw= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Subject: Re: clang mangling some static struct names? From: Rui Paulo In-Reply-To: <50A6B85F.6090707@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:21:32 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8E25C29E-D751-444B-8E16-4625A50BC165@felyko.com> References: <50A6A3BD.5000901@gmail.com> <20121116214919.GA41725@freebsd.org> <50A6B85F.6090707@gmail.com> To: Navdeep Parhar X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 13:14:35 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Roman Divacky X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 08:21:34 -0000 On 16 Nov 2012, at 14:04, Navdeep Parhar wrote: > On 11/16/12 13:49, Roman Divacky wrote: >> Yes, it does that. iirc so that you can have things like >>=20 >> void foo(int cond) { >> if (cond) { >> static int i =3D 7; >> } else { >> static int i =3D 8; >> } >> } >>=20 >> working correctly. >=20 > It's not appending the .n everywhere. And when it does, I don't see = any > potential collision that it prevented by doing so. Instead, it looks > like the .n symbol corresponds to the nth element in the structure (so > this is not name mangling in the true sense). I just don't see the > point in doing things this way. It is only making things harder for > debuggers. It's likely that FreeBSD's gdb has to grow support for this new symbol = format. Have you tried using the newest gdb available from ports?=20 Regards, -- Rui Paulo From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 13:37:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80F2D6C1; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 13:37:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from tensor.andric.com (cl-327.ede-01.nl.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:7b8:2ff:146::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A11B8FC0C; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 13:37:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7:0:2033:bac8:a848:cb45] (unknown [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7:0:2033:bac8:a848:cb45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tensor.andric.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 73E235C37; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:37:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <50A8E487.1020105@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:37:11 +0100 From: Dimitry Andric Organization: The FreeBSD Project User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Navdeep Parhar Subject: Re: clang mangling some static struct names? References: <50A6A3BD.5000901@gmail.com> <20121116214919.GA41725@freebsd.org> <50A6B85F.6090707@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <50A6B85F.6090707@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Roman Divacky X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 13:37:13 -0000 On 2012-11-16 23:04, Navdeep Parhar wrote: > On 11/16/12 13:49, Roman Divacky wrote: >> Yes, it does that. iirc so that you can have things like >> >> void foo(int cond) { >> if (cond) { >> static int i = 7; >> } else { >> static int i = 8; >> } >> } >> >> working correctly. > > It's not appending the .n everywhere. And when it does, I don't see any > potential collision that it prevented by doing so. Instead, it looks > like the .n symbol corresponds to the nth element in the structure (so > this is not name mangling in the true sense). I just don't see the > point in doing things this way. It is only making things harder for > debuggers. I don't think the point is making things harder for debuggers, the point is optimization. Since static variables and functions can be optimized away, or arbitrarily moved around, you cannot count on those symbols being there at all. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 14:04:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EFC1F40; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:04:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-da0-f54.google.com (mail-da0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 413338FC0C; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:04:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-da0-f54.google.com with SMTP id z9so1906531dad.13 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:04:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=PkrCzThGZkYu0g5QP9u5YsL0ue3jT6dGr6ekHWqeDsI=; b=YKcZ5PLK0S3cOsIiikbycguu3FTBTMtfafa2VJywbYFSLVFv8YDcLCFkUbYJf1LFQO JJw1n54vBQBbLNagM6AMc9pwrxHmdAQwiiMLUHwNDbgGyOfwrXkbhMLQF0c6uqvskb+v u+M5h6kbOR327A6kSu51x16LDXncU8fG0+YWEcUJg8YL4lDC6aEjj83YXLN6tZJNKUkL MTPQPicvh+gmf3++JgmfU5bBKFbtW+M71pRxu5h7vPbG1gJJ56BTruhYaQpK93KOu5aY GwQiTktgoEwQ6mZecZu6pRaPfrla+kVpXHE9Ks1pFEpxnhwTnmiMvJzdMeWK5W0+V3uo NiTw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.251.197 with SMTP id zm5mr31288711pbc.30.1353247440754; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:04:00 -0800 (PST) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.68.124.130 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:04:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <50A8BD0F.7030609@FreeBSD.org> References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> <50A8BD0F.7030609@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:04:00 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9SkSqLOC5Cm4H8pLarHAD189LUI Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: Adrian Chadd To: Andriy Gapon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Perry Hutchison X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:04:01 -0000 On 18 November 2012 02:48, Andriy Gapon wrote: > What you describe is not a workflow issue, but a local development > environment(s) setup issue. Which is a workflow issue. I mean, we could bang heads on semantics for hours on end, or we can realise that git isn't a magic bullet for FreeBSD development. Adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 14:09:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B69E4EB; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:09:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yerenkow@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oa0-f54.google.com (mail-oa0-f54.google.com [209.85.219.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D58BA8FC14; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:09:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n9so5224619oag.13 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:09:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Fxd0GDXvVqbvoBdexDpqOq/WVHiHJj1QHVU0ONX9X2g=; b=FGN/K3naDwhbszqyXFOhJnH3N4dYHaH/d33bISUpCAvcj/Jc0NSgSm8BH3LLHxpXIi GdmZ+y0EZvvHL85lGG2N9DqV1rg2q5JcLqE1TprYDFOmKx74EaIo8uMSS6xsmgc+1xRm KBf8zC5nzizw3RCzKUXinWX9cxZ++QEaVivgkrFdLdPAcvtQ8Y0nG/L8L7MPty4iGi+H y7lKsenmhfO9m91tjr2cRvciBPsjXahtyrY4O4DY2GTuezKYzd9GF7QpclxXc52ZMNPH sJhzUpTFNcWc1HWK1BS1fJzUHYnn4yM+xebzgZAh7Xnnm0YMn+8qTJ9iP+8r9tpT0BJS kszQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.171.134 with SMTP id au6mr8294960oec.69.1353247792245; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:09:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.132.50 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:09:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.132.50 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:09:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <50A8BD0F.7030609@FreeBSD.org> References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> <50A8BD0F.7030609@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:09:52 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: Alexander Yerenkow To: Andriy Gapon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Perry Hutchison X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:09:53 -0000 Integrity could be provided by storing some kind of commit ( each, and additionally each 1000nd full) checksums (even for svn) somewhere on readonly format. How about each commit will make a "tweet"? I'm sure twitter could arrange create-records-only (no edit) acount for such project as FreeBSD is. This isn't so hard to make, and it's so social :) Regards, Alexander Yerenkow From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 14:13:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEDA276F; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:13:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from graudeejs@yandex.ru) Received: from forward4h.mail.yandex.net (forward4h.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:f05::4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DCC48FC12; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:13:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from web29h.yandex.ru (web29h.yandex.ru [84.201.187.163]) by forward4h.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id CF8D11B20A1E; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 18:13:19 +0400 (MSK) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by web29h.yandex.ru (Yandex) with ESMTP id 2B65D3384F1; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 18:13:19 +0400 (MSK) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1353247999; bh=fiuKbu1PlDPnWr+N5p65Ulh9fYjqhlizWNW3j+8GiA4=; h=From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:Date; b=Pmis2LfAKrppShNABiXVNgx8xgMPiqLpaTnQklYoJ+eMyziyyWiCPSRMenT8l9l3z fb0TP5v0VCUkHG+/o3B/blG8LMHwCeU3WMBfkiEry9YfA69nJgLdveyaxJM4vrP1vP xz+AhMOrwogO6NskbB+bdz52HRLaSiWWSVOBXX0U= Received: from mpe-11-155.mpe.lv (mpe-11-155.mpe.lv [83.241.11.155]) by web29h.yandex.ru with HTTP; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 18:13:19 +0400 From: Aldis Berjoza To: Alexander Yerenkow ,Andriy Gapon In-Reply-To: References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> <50A8BD0F.7030609@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <852811353247999@web29h.yandex.ru> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:13:19 +0200 X-Mailer: Yamail [ http://yandex.ru ] 5.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain Cc: Konstantin Belousov , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Adrian Chadd , Perry Hutchison X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:13:53 -0000 18.11.2012, 16:10, "Alexander Yerenkow" : > How about each commit will make a "tweet"? I'm sure > twitter could arrange create-records-only (no edit) acount for such project > as FreeBSD is. > This isn't so hard to make, and it's so social :) And you would trust twitter? -- Aldis Berjoza FreeBSD addict From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 14:16:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 615F286E for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:16:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-la0-f54.google.com (mail-la0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF2C98FC15 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:16:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-la0-f54.google.com with SMTP id j13so3875490lah.13 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:16:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=4nxGEBbNq5i3HkedC0zzqLzzGUltmuBlZKQUTeZjtBw=; b=fmSNtantQCvT4dDphXEDeuPsUrILRafU+XE6hi1dspew9UrCRNamnK5gorxbm8Fr1A JoCjFtmGhH5tw35RBM3aMMzXYUiuzCeGr93Nvb1e58lNO+YIywlEK1gExafDNrznxE8O da0HE/o3b6vPI1veW++/qIdSF5Nx8FFlcfbes= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=4nxGEBbNq5i3HkedC0zzqLzzGUltmuBlZKQUTeZjtBw=; b=OGQtNo0b6VGHqkQofipgrIdeky42Vo1PZRBh5jqQ5eJmOP5xNczw40KeyF3/At+7QX pDkckMRGYHDfE+NsrNJgCv4EJha5l8aarNh/11TrdcCTV4JJwJbT7NolNcd6HGv6+O2v /AlvgEwQ0ZfPzNoqCVnWXDbzdPcFslLrd4xXmALGNAM0xmPBIpVqz4VGoCJz0MmFSPfM hdk0vnXokt+ym6KzKQpUqfG22vTIG8I6vEMfZcy/yCPZnvyNSWg3vIq1BNccjSx+GtXx UHDHxnkkKPz3RHMwe6tVtK0OmYBT0d8pq5ivUftOTgFxT5wkesbBNjnIWLVam90UpmAP mW8Q== Received: by 10.112.13.140 with SMTP id h12mr4127589lbc.12.1353248161115; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:16:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.25.166 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:15:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> <50A8BD0F.7030609@FreeBSD.org> From: Eitan Adler Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:15:30 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] To: Alexander Yerenkow Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQngN1kw80tRi3Wam70ufx12RkNgn84sLEbkYO0GqInUy7b+l7vCMJifGA2vTbGueJ5/vfyH Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Perry Hutchison , Andriy Gapon X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:16:03 -0000 On 18 November 2012 09:09, Alexander Yerenkow wrote: > Integrity could be provided by storing some kind of commit ( each, and > additionally each 1000nd full) checksums (even for svn) somewhere on > readonly format. Google "Merkle Tree" for a method of verifying a log. -- Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 14:18:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14DD6B9E; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:18:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B8648FC1B; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:18:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-bk0-f54.google.com with SMTP id je9so855435bkc.13 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:18:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=6+9Tqcc8uOBHp/g0GQ8OAcMRMpddxGzBksB1dx/UeLw=; b=gNYa1r/7adkl4azNSbviDdpokXaDTKTdY1ivN8hNQuzuCKfzRY1JEbhGvjGONzVhh5 tDxbs2lCncRRARgNkqCnQiSUCnggduPebK+iSGYdiPykYG1K6VweQAaby4rXRwPIysqh Yva8Vqg5pkcz9v0lu9YmtajRvKE9Yc8Bdeu1WeixRa9NMI3fEKOEChiMjuLwPBTYaJk4 b4aprOAuYCckK1W5pGO2mcgp2lNGhqVOUSM3JHarDcx1Awz+fZfXW+DMmXzi1c/+uvwD qKytnlDkuB1h3Ffq/Tj+sU5jJ+SlCnoRiBelSG9e7itsIP950F7A+eq+iYVa8ss7IAu6 Lbfg== Received: by 10.205.137.7 with SMTP id im7mr3870684bkc.25.1353248306102; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:18:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: utisoft@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.50.197 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:17:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> <50A8BD0F.7030609@FreeBSD.org> From: Chris Rees Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:17:55 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: tAffZaOyMx70ZNrVgwQ7jiXd8Dw Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] To: Adrian Chadd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Konstantin Belousov , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Perry Hutchison , Andriy Gapon X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:18:28 -0000 On 18 November 2012 14:04, Adrian Chadd wrote: > On 18 November 2012 02:48, Andriy Gapon wrote: > >> What you describe is not a workflow issue, but a local development >> environment(s) setup issue. > > Which is a workflow issue. > > I mean, we could bang heads on semantics for hours on end, or we can > realise that git isn't a magic bullet for FreeBSD development. Also... did I mention git is GPL? Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 14:19:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32161D63; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:19:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yerenkow@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA02D8FC18; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:19:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 16so5217479obc.13 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:19:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=gVVGeRdntWL4speEAbW8hXrj3bm2QUNxCWQq+4xp0G4=; b=Sd+z98pgQ3I5hAwGxtaDeoUqxRT/uTVvpJQToXXQPi0+dmH2S3s4g1NUHaudN7xebV WIveFzyEa6qKAkEGBqJbpObDKnHGP07FNpggm75Lqui0z1i05keCaQaoLIzNZCNjMbcw EURqJjYcTfHmWrVvSb2It4t1aejc4vcG5rVt+F2pDTAfxD+7xF6Homs7T0BzIyvRam6O Jqxkm1U2cFy4OO1Tli3YiGvguzqKVI5dc9ASirG1qlC2wjaXypmQf4waZJkoUvykLiJZ su9YW0WnsUS7ysmW/XkMIwHyI6EdtW2DTaU7SczVnL+bP2K+hkMU9N8pu+RPBBlGaJca GYew== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.160.65 with SMTP id xi1mr8335484obb.49.1353248355988; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:19:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.132.50 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:19:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.132.50 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:19:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <852811353247999@web29h.yandex.ru> References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> <50A8BD0F.7030609@FreeBSD.org> <852811353247999@web29h.yandex.ru> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:19:15 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: Alexander Yerenkow To: Aldis Berjoza Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: Konstantin Belousov , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Adrian Chadd , Perry Hutchison , Andriy Gapon X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:19:17 -0000 Why not make few such places? This will be harder to compromise simultenously two or more. Regards, Alexander Yerenkow 18.11.2012 16:13 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 "Aldis Berjoza" =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC: > > 18.11.2012, 16:10, "Alexander Yerenkow" : > > How about each commit will make a "tweet"? I'm sure > > twitter could arrange create-records-only (no edit) acount for such > project > > as FreeBSD is. > > This isn't so hard to make, and it's so social :) > > And you would trust twitter? > > -- > Aldis Berjoza > FreeBSD addict > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 15:40:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B735763; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 15:40:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC768FC15; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 15:40:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id RAA04137; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 17:40:10 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1Ta6yg-000994-5y; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 17:40:10 +0200 Message-ID: <50A90158.9010309@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 17:40:08 +0200 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121030 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Chadd Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> <50A8BD0F.7030609@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, Perry Hutchison X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 15:40:13 -0000 on 18/11/2012 16:04 Adrian Chadd said the following: > On 18 November 2012 02:48, Andriy Gapon wrote: > >> What you describe is not a workflow issue, but a local development >> environment(s) setup issue. > > Which is a workflow issue. Well, this is what I understand as workflow: google://git workflow http://git-scm.com/book/en/Distributed-Git-Distributed-Workflows http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/gitworkflows.html "Local workflow" is up to each developer to set up. > I mean, we could bang heads on semantics for hours on end, Indeed. > or we can > realise that git isn't a magic bullet for FreeBSD development. I haven't heard anyone saying that. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 16:59:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B436B17; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:59:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bright@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7918B8FC0C; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:59:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.1.17] (c-67-180-208-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.180.208.218]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6E37E1A3C1B; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 08:59:06 -0800 (PST) References: <50A6A3BD.5000901@gmail.com> <20121116214919.GA41725@freebsd.org> <50A6B85F.6090707@gmail.com> <50A8E487.1020105@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <50A8E487.1020105@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10A523) From: Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: clang mangling some static struct names? Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 08:59:05 -0800 To: Dimitry Andric Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Roman Divacky , Navdeep Parhar X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:59:12 -0000 On Nov 18, 2012, at 5:37 AM, Dimitry Andric wrote: > On 2012-11-16 23:04, Navdeep Parhar wrote: >> On 11/16/12 13:49, Roman Divacky wrote: >>> Yes, it does that. iirc so that you can have things like >>> >>> void foo(int cond) { >>> if (cond) { >>> static int i = 7; >>> } else { >>> static int i = 8; >>> } >>> } >>> >>> working correctly. >> >> It's not appending the .n everywhere. And when it does, I don't see any >> potential collision that it prevented by doing so. Instead, it looks >> like the .n symbol corresponds to the nth element in the structure (so >> this is not name mangling in the true sense). I just don't see the >> point in doing things this way. It is only making things harder for >> debuggers. > > I don't think the point is making things harder for debuggers, the point > is optimization. Since static variables and functions can be optimized > away, or arbitrarily moved around, you cannot count on those symbols > being there at all. Bro, do you even debug? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 00:01:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50996258; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 00:01:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nparhar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pa0-f54.google.com (mail-pa0-f54.google.com [209.85.220.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B5D18FC12; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 00:01:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id kp6so3110756pab.13 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:01:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=z+uze2VhRE828C0AayNcrT/ZzixhrZNGV5pQgbch1/c=; b=DgyWMVQ/KDFrSVjRidwTXB0jLdxEMAnud09OxHrc+0/FpkhndHMLfD2gRB4PKdPK0a k3Zu2ZXPtbDJvOuywYI2ZYLqIVHNcVJDoR6IJ8xcxNA5Qug6IxTsQJHNV7ij/zOdzzWV NlQf5YLUbrhQddybAPkqSeIc0Xsviy4aK+hqd6tq1vOJf2iTkaZnZWSWvQXI24gzzfGs tkZ+738Dhbgd2R9Je1ZPTKwADpuZ0xZ9KPh9lkSsv6PwppX3rOzauWxXN05ADiutWvsJ zyfT4cWkAXfKRzsRMlSb6F0cRE4lHTotR0UWIJhmA/KlEus80BpnnxRY7Y5RK26Huvt7 E+eA== Received: by 10.66.77.74 with SMTP id q10mr31039168paw.81.1353283305457; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:01:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from itx (c-24-6-45-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [24.6.45.85]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id uk9sm5141272pbc.63.2012.11.18.16.01.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:01:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:01:37 -0800 From: Navdeep Parhar To: Dimitry Andric Subject: Re: clang mangling some static struct names? Message-ID: <20121119000137.GA1437@itx> Mail-Followup-To: Dimitry Andric , Roman Divacky , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <50A6A3BD.5000901@gmail.com> <20121116214919.GA41725@freebsd.org> <50A6B85F.6090707@gmail.com> <50A8E487.1020105@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <50A8E487.1020105@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Roman Divacky X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 00:01:46 -0000 On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 02:37:11PM +0100, Dimitry Andric wrote: > On 2012-11-16 23:04, Navdeep Parhar wrote: > >On 11/16/12 13:49, Roman Divacky wrote: > >>Yes, it does that. iirc so that you can have things like > >> > >>void foo(int cond) { > >> if (cond) { > >> static int i = 7; > >> } else { > >> static int i = 8; > >> } > >>} > >> > >>working correctly. > > > >It's not appending the .n everywhere. And when it does, I don't see any > >potential collision that it prevented by doing so. Instead, it looks > >like the .n symbol corresponds to the nth element in the structure (so > >this is not name mangling in the true sense). I just don't see the > >point in doing things this way. It is only making things harder for > >debuggers. > > I don't think the point is making things harder for debuggers, the point > is optimization. Since static variables and functions can be optimized > away, or arbitrarily moved around, you cannot count on those symbols > being there at all. I'd (maybe) buy your argument if the symbol wasn't there at all. But it's there, just with a .0 appended to it. It hasn't been moved around or optimized away. In fact, in the case of scsi_low_statics the compiler added extra noise to the binary (in the form of multiple scsi_low_statics.[0-4] symbols that no one except the compiler knows about). There doesn't seem to be *any* good reason for adding the .n to the symbols. What is the optimization being attempted here? I lost the ability to look up some symbols in kgdb and I'd like to know what I gained in the process :-) Regards, Navdeep From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 01:01:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B85D6C; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 01:01:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53D548FC08; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 01:01:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 16so5547602obc.13 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 17:01:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=VRZZ7hDqLcOXRbxmxEpj5Bp23IG/2J7Uk9192K2egv8=; b=NCHmOkJc8EnxmAt+gaDpwkp43lGJ7quLNToO0CVxRLpo07FJpwTvWLZtnFHDmdNoEE 6BFsxz/wh7Y2rRgHVX2PZem2bo7zY5yFoiQWe50A9ok48XHS8szFCSmcAndpQWCFIjnA 9v2yfv8KWqW65jAxvQBx4llvCdhu6Fyw/F/ZtEkgkCRtO6fwRooAL7yiYyyxkP4bw1mD hPRENsyA7wioAyj2NRHRsfXQ81/1jgUJqSn5yqtwhdeD9Y16DhHlAQrShB7bx8S+q+3p U9+ZOODqJjfuUu3BxAAGWeh1PMkV77yo18zpL4nlUOuw1Br1Mb2wXt2YFWSZgKcKMgC3 GRRQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.177.7 with SMTP id cm7mr9339068obc.20.1353286915570; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 17:01:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.68.39 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 17:01:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20648.34523.672005.521289@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> References: <20648.34523.672005.521289@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:01:55 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: grarpamp To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 02:48:09 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 01:01:56 -0000 On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Garrett Wollman wrote: >> the various good uses for nyms. > > There are no such uses on the FreeBSD mailing-lists; if you wish for > anyone to pay attention to you, then use a real name. Otherwise, > FOAD. > > -GAWollman It appears you have not reviewed the mailing list archives, otherwise you would have found many such nym holders engaging in good participation. However I do thank you for your opinion, and for your delightful and unwarranted private abuse. A good day to you indeed, Sir. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 02:54:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8CB46EC for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 02:54:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nwhitehorn@freebsd.org) Received: from agogare.doit.wisc.edu (agogare.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.211]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75C6A8FC12 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 02:54:02 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from avs-daemon.smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu by smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) id <0MDP00100P9W2G00@smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 19:53:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from comporellon.tachypleus.net ([unknown] [76.210.62.21]) by smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0MDP00JCYP9QH610@smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 19:53:51 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 19:53:50 -0600 From: Nathan Whitehorn Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] In-reply-to: <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <50A9912E.3090608@freebsd.org> X-Spam-Report: AuthenticatedSender=yes, SenderIP=76.210.62.21 X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-13, Version=5.6.1.2065439, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2012.11.14.164515, SenderIP=76.210.62.21 References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121116 Thunderbird/16.0.2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 02:54:02 -0000 On 11/18/12 01:31, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 11:05:40PM -0800, Perry Hutchison wrote: >> [trimmed some of the lists] >> >> Chris Rees wrote: >>> ... git doesn't work with our workflow. >> I'm sure the workflow itself is documented somewhere, but is >> there a good writeup of _how_ git doesn't work with it, e.g. what >> capabilit{y,ies} is/are missing? Seems this might be of interest >> to the git developers, not because they necessarily want to support >> FreeBSD as such, but as an example of a real-world workflow that git >> currently does not handle well. > Git would work well with our workflow. It supports the centralized > repository model, which the project employs right now. > > The biggest issues, assuming the project indeed decides to move to Git > right now, are the migration costs, both in the term of the technical > efforts needed, and the learning curve for the most population of the > committers. > > Relatively minor problem, at least with the current rate of the commits, > would be a commit race, when the shared repo head forwarded due to the > parallel commit. The issue should be somewhat mitigated by the Git > allowance to push a set of changes in one push. git would be a huge step backward from svn for the central repo in lots of ways. Besides being (in my experience) extremely fragile and error-prone and the issues of workflow that have been brought up, the loss of monotonic revision numbers is a really major problem. Switching SCMs as a result of a security problem is also an action totally disproportionate with the issue that should not be made in a panic. Having more [cryptographic] verifiability in the release process is a good thing; it is not strictly related to the choice of version control system. -Nathan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 03:11:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7A49A46 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 03:11:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 910E88FC13 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 03:11:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 16so5617865obc.13 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 19:11:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=QPWbCiWy3dIbUZg5s8xioMQuaFs/G2JlsWI/oI5JI0c=; b=mjwywSDsswu+3wDt9r098C84G1XZpntKElk9U/aTd0KO2f0N4dGrqbebOOLaMnygRz gXh8o2NAgAZS7nylxWL34js3nGGPmjHi+1VFE0pdLG/O9jmIGBZbLXVGxgydbalEC/Xv EVw895KXKF5WylA2ln9TCXp+1XVTjORVVZfTgJdzCdQcV22z30FB2JCxpLmOGD6hCRQH Xl/9VM2+THkaZmsdOeAtd+7tIOHSyj1A0o1ZtTLKBLiKePGEW/V2AVKzXCL83fezPSZM YwyMLz5Qq/cbNDnEZ5puHxn4UhvLAYp8lFWJJoRTfZITh+iG5PSSQ/3vd5Y1BMWEyXlY k/kw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.22.5 with SMTP id z5mr9224944oee.88.1353294718822; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 19:11:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.68.39 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 19:11:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 22:11:58 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: grarpamp To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 03:42:23 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 03:11:59 -0000 >> grarpamp >> the various good uses for nyms. > cpghost@cordula.ws > I hope you realize whom you're trying to lecture here! > Joerg Wunsch is a highly appreciated long-time FreeBSD contributor Of course. No one here has any question as to anyone's FreeBSD participation. That would be silly :) I merely contest the suggestion that nyms have little to no utility, that people need moderate their usage alone in public, and that those using them are somehow lessers. I won't fail to defend general anti-nym opinion or guidance, particularly when wafted in this general direction. > Now, back to our regular programming. Yes, about this lack of a self-authenticating repo, etc. [1] It is good to see some discussion forming around it :) [1] Or whatever it may better be called. Put another way... we can't yet say, in the strong cryptographic sense, that anyone has a true copy of the repo. Or that the repo is itself internally tamper free and/or tamper proof. And so on as applied down the production and distribution chain. The repo does face certain risks. And Git appears as if it may be one way to mitigate them. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 04:22:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FF24856 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 04:22:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BDF78FC12 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 04:22:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 16so5656400obc.13 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:22:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=LkFbO2eOSFooZG0JdNhVlE6fB1yf9kGzvsnewssV1uA=; b=S/Wg4vr/4KCi6zQ9z9IIusvFyZpcfU3dGWXu8ctSN5Vt8G5JQJDdQsJNOvrSzee2sK PxSzlyq2anemUHH94TMQRiaxPzWupZ38mOV6f2HGAkleTtIsOTFmQ/JNUi8q5BtbqIDt o6oqafO40pmu7kDDbUVrKTsO6yNiSCIVNc5mnIxyLV8Y077xPvnitE+V48E+JToUtMqg +I+W0y8RjuI+Qjn9MYgxfvWzgzGB/rXvcdC9bkNrCJEw+uYKm18kHLvMdhym/L2W/28v Zxz38QC135REVQSN/NeIwjXqZQG+xXNdUbY+G0aOZuRj7LuLV3aNuk/XudTjmrCla2RJ CQnQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.2.103 with SMTP id 7mr9677665oet.79.1353298959706; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.68.39 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:22:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 23:22:39 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: grarpamp To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 04:55:11 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 04:22:41 -0000 > I won't fail to defend general anti-nym opinion or guidance d-oh, s/defend/defend against/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 12:36:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F6F38AE for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:36:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@m.gmane.org) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B2668FC08 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:36:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TaQaE-0004DC-3Q for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:36:14 +0100 Received: from lara.cc.fer.hr ([161.53.72.113]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:36:14 +0100 Received: from ivoras by lara.cc.fer.hr with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:36:14 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Ivan Voras Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:34:46 +0100 Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig4655263C581BF6A3A6FA6FEA" X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: lara.cc.fer.hr User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120812 Thunderbird/14.0 In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.3 Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:36:37 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig4655263C581BF6A3A6FA6FEA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 17/11/2012 22:48, Chris Rees wrote: > (and is GPL btw) Since we're discussing it, Mercurial is BSDL-ed, and apparently has proper crypto signing using GPG: http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/FAQ#FAQ.2FTechnicalDetails.How_do_Mercu= rial_hashes_get_calculated.3F --------------enig4655263C581BF6A3A6FA6FEA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlCqJ2YACgkQ/QjVBj3/HSyu9QCfTHnDK4I6UQr7wsClBX6RGbs1 TWcAoJAUlLmOYsIAIfrMVSyG8AUOCQL6 =9Bwr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig4655263C581BF6A3A6FA6FEA-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 12:47:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468B7C5B; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:47:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from c.kworr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ie0-f182.google.com (mail-ie0-f182.google.com [209.85.223.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7FA98FC14; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:47:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f182.google.com with SMTP id s9so117785iec.13 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 04:47:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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[92.242.127.250]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id cg5sm2444760igb.8.2012.11.19.04.47.43 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 19 Nov 2012 04:47:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50AA2A6C.8060604@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:47:40 +0200 From: Volodymyr Kostyrko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121116 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ivan Voras Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:47:48 -0000 19.11.2012 14:34, Ivan Voras wrote: > On 17/11/2012 22:48, Chris Rees wrote: > >> (and is GPL btw) > > Since we're discussing it, Mercurial is BSDL-ed, and apparently has > proper crypto signing using GPG: > > http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/FAQ#FAQ.2FTechnicalDetails.How_do_Mercurial_hashes_get_calculated.3F :%s/BSD/LGP/ http://mercurial.selenic.com/about/ -- Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 12:48:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD146E12; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:48:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 396548FC14; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:48:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id l1so6406765vba.13 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 04:48:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=RWYYZ+qZ60CQJ4ahX6jdItyrCSl7GH+lhI2UP6VW5eo=; b=u8GYOoOrVzS/ADdxt/gqBDl4p9cYdosrWSWzlsYRQPUXDEw0ZGym3H7GYctoY3zfS5 /H9YYkotX2ewjTIwqfS/NTqQ3gtpDIGv1QAfKSlQ74ZzYzRj83qlguZ2L6Lk6cdwnEkt Gs7ZMoN3VGemHvpdhxtrmyu0tExivcljsPN+1Es43l1cX8qG+HFOzTLmkRgxkrZwqjP3 XktUdOGZD4QBk9ahRdOBvho31a1fe6J4faAkBsXyYZoSLuGgwXDDWv1Wt3Qez6yCWzm3 vDYfcrWABbK4d09uQ/J+Tg/Ms5Wq1xQDHSI9dnW1wpMiqq1Tc+SA3wSfa8EkULVXHlQW LYgw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.90.212 with SMTP id by20mr16897257vdb.118.1353329332897; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 04:48:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.218.35 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 04:48:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 04:48:52 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: Ivan Voras Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:48:56 -0000 On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 4:34 AM, Ivan Voras wrote: > On 17/11/2012 22:48, Chris Rees wrote: > > > (and is GPL btw) > > Since we're discussing it, Mercurial is BSDL-ed, and apparently has > proper crypto signing using GPG: > > > http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/FAQ#FAQ.2FTechnicalDetails.How_do_Mercurial_hashes_get_calculated.3F > > > http://selenic.com/repo/hg/file/fd903f89e42b http://selenic.com/repo/hg/file/fd903f89e42b/COPYING " GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE Version 2, June 1991 " In their repository , it is GPL v2 . Is there any other place which specifies its license as BSDL ? Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 12:50:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81FAE99 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:50:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@m.gmane.org) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ADAA8FC16 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:50:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TaQoR-00017j-B0 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:50:55 +0100 Received: from lara.cc.fer.hr ([161.53.72.113]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:50:55 +0100 Received: from ivoras by lara.cc.fer.hr with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:50:55 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Ivan Voras Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:50:36 +0100 Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50AA2A6C.8060604@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigCAF39E1E79CEAB740807486D" X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: lara.cc.fer.hr User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120812 Thunderbird/14.0 In-Reply-To: <50AA2A6C.8060604@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.3 Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:50:48 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigCAF39E1E79CEAB740807486D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 19/11/2012 13:47, Volodymyr Kostyrko wrote: > 19.11.2012 14:34, Ivan Voras wrote: >> On 17/11/2012 22:48, Chris Rees wrote: >> >>> (and is GPL btw) >> >> Since we're discussing it, Mercurial is BSDL-ed, and apparently has >> proper crypto signing using GPG: >> >> http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/FAQ#FAQ.2FTechnicalDetails.How_do_Me= rcurial_hashes_get_calculated.3F >=20 > :%s/BSD/GPL/ >=20 > http://mercurial.selenic.com/about/ :( --------------enigCAF39E1E79CEAB740807486D Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlCqKxwACgkQ/QjVBj3/HSwSfgCcC+4Hoi5siNqQnzAYiNq0V1XZ X2MAoKPwKkxNgxslTeMPHm2sRNEUHOUk =ELNz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigCAF39E1E79CEAB740807486D-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 13:05:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298C7692; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:05:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ECBD8FC0C; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:05:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id PAA13714; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:05:13 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1TaR2H-000CYR-7u; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:05:13 +0200 Message-ID: <50AA2E88.1040005@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:05:12 +0200 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121030 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rees Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> <50A8BD0F.7030609@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:05:17 -0000 on 18/11/2012 16:17 Chris Rees said the following: > On 18 November 2012 14:04, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> On 18 November 2012 02:48, Andriy Gapon wrote: >> >>> What you describe is not a workflow issue, but a local development >>> environment(s) setup issue. >> >> Which is a workflow issue. >> >> I mean, we could bang heads on semantics for hours on end, or we can >> realise that git isn't a magic bullet for FreeBSD development. > > Also... did I mention git is GPL? Yes, you did, twice now. I do not see any relevance of Git license to FreeBSD's choice of SCM solution. But, of course, I am not: a) a zealot b) proposing Git (or Subversion, or Mercurial) to be bundled with a base system -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 13:08:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F26CE893; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:08:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F47F8FC12; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:08:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-bk0-f54.google.com with SMTP id je9so1189282bkc.13 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:08:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=tX3zhoiKYQCNUaK8o88ZHF6jTeURduDLaJk4sdDxy50=; b=XH47Uh8viPQ1hdEEpFr5AmrgpQ8BlyQAHJTwabk3CLEgHME7djlraGhlv3NBVFGGPQ FpPEfgY1K1PjqSEFpT+MQqZNEfbn3ujQfOUwHHqF84M1KSS9s9XNK6XPbJCCQwoYnwxk bX1VO7Hs8Oixl/Oyb6xnURpsRy/lH7awfFzI0JcgaU7vz6ZnOpKVV7WqwM/dt8fKPddm 6dd+4o/vUWS9WFecMAKePH2MzW1CjTXMNUrF5lMhQeGBr7D870I9I2OpxpoR+ZWrmM2E NWoqS/NkqpccwJ8PrEEUPxW3zuYZIzlMmRSrFfi7JpUUfUgYGfBmTGhPty5gVRknP8Q2 KFXw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.130.140 with SMTP id t12mr3250767bks.39.1353330494206; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:08:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.50.197 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.50.197 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:08:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <50AA2E88.1040005@FreeBSD.org> References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> <50A8BD0F.7030609@FreeBSD.org> <50AA2E88.1040005@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:08:13 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: Chris Rees To: Andriy Gapon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:08:16 -0000 On 19 Nov 2012 13:05, "Andriy Gapon" wrote: > > on 18/11/2012 16:17 Chris Rees said the following: > > On 18 November 2012 14:04, Adrian Chadd wrote: > >> On 18 November 2012 02:48, Andriy Gapon wrote: > >> > >>> What you describe is not a workflow issue, but a local development > >>> environment(s) setup issue. > >> > >> Which is a workflow issue. > >> > >> I mean, we could bang heads on semantics for hours on end, or we can > >> realise that git isn't a magic bullet for FreeBSD development. > > > > Also... did I mention git is GPL? > > Yes, you did, twice now. > I do not see any relevance of Git license to FreeBSD's choice of SCM solution. > But, of course, I am not: > a) a zealot > b) proposing Git (or Subversion, or Mercurial) to be bundled with a base system I'm disappointed that you choose to call me a zealot- this is a valid concern, especially since we're trying to move away from GPL stuff. Whether it's in base or not, you'd still be forcing me to install it for development. Why are people so dismissive of this point? Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 13:13:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACAC1CC2; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:13:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF2558FC17; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:13:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id PAA13807; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:13:00 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1TaR9o-000CYq-3v; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:13:00 +0200 Message-ID: <50AA305A.8080702@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:12:58 +0200 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121030 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nathan Whitehorn Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> <50A9912E.3090608@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <50A9912E.3090608@freebsd.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:13:02 -0000 on 19/11/2012 03:53 Nathan Whitehorn said the following: > git would be a huge step backward from svn for the central repo in lots of ways. Dramatic statements ("huge", "lots") require dramatic evidence. > Besides being (in my experience) extremely fragile and error-prone and the Ditto ("extremely"). > issues of workflow that have been brought up, the loss of monotonic revision > numbers is a really major problem. Monotonic revision numbers are nice to have, but again, are they really of that major importance? > Switching SCMs as a result of a security > problem is also an action totally disproportionate with the issue that should > not be made in a panic. Having more [cryptographic] verifiability in the release > process is a good thing; it is not strictly related to the choice of version > control system. With this part I entirely agree. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 13:15:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2EFEE5 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:15:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8F688FC14 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:15:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id PAA13841; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:15:12 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1TaRBw-000CYw-A1; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:15:12 +0200 Message-ID: <50AA30DF.6080406@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:15:11 +0200 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121030 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rees Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50a8eb34.5pMwq6kSsi47QgKI%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20121118073128.GG73505@kib.kiev.ua> <50A8BD0F.7030609@FreeBSD.org> <50AA2E88.1040005@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:15:15 -0000 on 19/11/2012 15:08 Chris Rees said the following: > > On 19 Nov 2012 13:05, "Andriy Gapon" > > wrote: >> >> on 18/11/2012 16:17 Chris Rees said the following: >> > On 18 November 2012 14:04, Adrian Chadd > wrote: >> >> On 18 November 2012 02:48, Andriy Gapon > wrote: >> >> >> >>> What you describe is not a workflow issue, but a local development >> >>> environment(s) setup issue. >> >> >> >> Which is a workflow issue. >> >> >> >> I mean, we could bang heads on semantics for hours on end, or we can >> >> realise that git isn't a magic bullet for FreeBSD development. >> > >> > Also... did I mention git is GPL? >> >> Yes, you did, twice now. >> I do not see any relevance of Git license to FreeBSD's choice of SCM solution. >> But, of course, I am not: >> a) a zealot >> b) proposing Git (or Subversion, or Mercurial) to be bundled with a base system > > I'm disappointed that you choose to call me a zealot- this is a valid concern, > especially since we're trying to move away from GPL stuff. Whether it's in base > or not, you'd still be forcing me to install it for development. Why are people > so dismissive of this point? a. I haven't called you a zealot b. You now _sound_ like a zealot if even just installing GPL-licensed software on your local/private machine sounds like a problem to you -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 13:18:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBAEF174; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:18:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 416788FC14; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:18:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vc0-f182.google.com with SMTP id fo13so6572038vcb.13 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:18:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=e44nTj0gNhviH1QGqQQ1w/ZuGlBOwxAZDYMwbCG+9IM=; b=oyFr5jqUrVWtF3N7h5TfJBPCez3YfxtYaYp9KWzsgeGdd2069O7XwM/d29OaDChk6G pIsfpYMpMhBt70NcnENl+ld78O8OWaidBYBtL/j/7jbnoh/tMBzo8fWBHeZ872kU7gbO V++FhGnslTq3+SnVPpK1qwAkjYxJ/CoDHLg2IRpfzPnZ0wBfzQYD24JV7c/QkJ2Fbtol fAW/tmh9ZSAUFyXo7Lz9XRC1oQ1Kkm5o1LNdo0JG2OK9RG/glZJ+VvXgf7pHIzqQbeUD 99MPC/ysMQTqE1TiIz7bCMS2YC2+PrkfR1eHb5e4o/mOrf5Dxvfq4HmC6HjT37xtDkw+ i6cA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.161.113 with SMTP id xr17mr17169363veb.3.1353331081128; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:18:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.218.35 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:18:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50AA2A6C.8060604@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:18:01 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: "C. P. Ghost" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Volodymyr Kostyrko , Ivan Voras , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:18:03 -0000 On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 5:10 AM, C. P. Ghost wrote: > On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Volodymyr Kostyrko > wrote: > > 19.11.2012 14:34, Ivan Voras wrote: > >> > >> On 17/11/2012 22:48, Chris Rees wrote: > >> > >>> (and is GPL btw) > >> > >> > >> Since we're discussing it, Mercurial is BSDL-ed, and apparently has > >> proper crypto signing using GPG: > >> > >> > >> > http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/FAQ#FAQ.2FTechnicalDetails.How_do_Mercurial_hashes_get_calculated.3F > > > > > > :%s/BSD/LGP/ > > > > http://mercurial.selenic.com/about/ > > Even if it was BSD licensed, Mercurial has a huge dependency: > Python; and Git is Perl-based. So neither of them is ideal, IMHO. > If at all, we'd need a lean and mean distributed SCM program > like Mercurial or Git, but written in C that we could add to base. > Any volunteers? > > -cpghost. > > -- > Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ > http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/License http://selenic.com/hg/file/tip/COPYING http://mercurial.selenic.com/about/ "Mercurial is free software licensed under the terms of the GNU General Public License Version 2 or any later version." No one of them above mentions "BSD license" , or "dual license" , etc. Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Similar projects From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 13:10:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48692A55 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:10:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cpghost@cordula.ws) Received: from mail-ie0-f182.google.com (mail-ie0-f182.google.com [209.85.223.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04BDA8FC12 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:10:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f182.google.com with SMTP id s9so159348iec.13 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:10:40 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=/6RYBNtLoqDMG+mcDy4a6K1DqhuZG0Fv3q3z+ZLc24U=; b=foi6mvnhDPQtQVfLg1hTIsNfHfrPBgx0YBZzYJ2zM8xVqdhomJZVziMlKHH5blJkp2 /7VnD2JssW/e8qMCVn+0TGjgIW4mPMSEFKoS4j1AmY9MbtKiMPZOrHZU9Vutl9q1Cgch vvxm4LLIJMshi1q1/FpfRvw0jDYXwtDYMjy7jVk90Kny7fgk7gMMHqKnBEqMpbGtlada WA3LIaaHi/FrOIEIvF4qhXjKBzBFtkEk8X9VTyBnOEYMPnFIP1Y+5KO4ep0M7zhB9fpT ejEbFOWjFYbVE+bqvhnYORIy/yJFudzG9+gC5f/vDWXsm0h9W2BXH5yneLEDB5G0j7aG f84A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.140.103 with SMTP id rf7mr6448795igb.56.1353330640756; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:10:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.49.67 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:10:40 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [93.221.171.204] In-Reply-To: <50AA2A6C.8060604@gmail.com> References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50AA2A6C.8060604@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:10:40 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: "C. P. Ghost" To: Volodymyr Kostyrko Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmo1qCdbe55HSWRedmfwAU9AGSpVFq2Ahag4pXfSfh3FnbWJ6S/Mr3Dv5JjQMi/95zqrTwS X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:28:24 +0000 Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Ivan Voras , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:10:42 -0000 On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Volodymyr Kostyrko wrote: > 19.11.2012 14:34, Ivan Voras wrote: >> >> On 17/11/2012 22:48, Chris Rees wrote: >> >>> (and is GPL btw) >> >> >> Since we're discussing it, Mercurial is BSDL-ed, and apparently has >> proper crypto signing using GPG: >> >> >> http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/FAQ#FAQ.2FTechnicalDetails.How_do_Mercurial_hashes_get_calculated.3F > > > :%s/BSD/LGP/ > > http://mercurial.selenic.com/about/ Even if it was BSD licensed, Mercurial has a huge dependency: Python; and Git is Perl-based. So neither of them is ideal, IMHO. If at all, we'd need a lean and mean distributed SCM program like Mercurial or Git, but written in C that we could add to base. Any volunteers? -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 13:40:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99544D96; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:40:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yerenkow@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2195F8FC19; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:40:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 16so6115166obc.13 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:40:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=nXOYt6w37svRL85hqtaDOmxE37Yu3ojBP8SRzn0F6Ag=; b=g2l6z5a0n/lyhJ/7s2tYdnyYOr2+x95djZGKTdMe0S8L8NPvLJBljtl2kj9gCiJ9pk HO/vN1qKftoWeEknShRHcXSXlj0MobSmoerOvxczpISziaNkl2eMM34sl91QPcm+zhGZ qsUqvjHD5QXLt1kNOSO5vvH3DPEyIhUO322CIhOqx1Ej/wCJujF0ANZMdbIfrNb7m5CE ojRrAcKjSW1uZdjZC1sa9tP81nUyg3fIuum6lzSvFYhYK19ieLx/hNAHXyGxf7igFVgv 4EhjqKRSppwa01dZ4bpgqONUmWUKD1zej0xTA9Zi7l85dQSCn+0f4nu+bRxUsP4yBXWJ zdKg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.160.65 with SMTP id xi1mr10402238obb.49.1353332433710; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:40:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.132.50 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:40:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50AA2A6C.8060604@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:40:33 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: Alexander Yerenkow To: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: "C. P. Ghost" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Volodymyr Kostyrko , freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Ivan Voras , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:40:35 -0000 http://www.fossil-scm.org/ I'm not fossil user, but it's BSD licensed in written in C. Baptise Daroussin probably could tell us more about fossil pro and cons. -- Regards, Alexander Yerenkow From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 13:42:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03C67EA1; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:42:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: from keltia.net (centre.keltia.net [IPv6:2a01:240:fe5c::41]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1CC98FC13; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:42:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from roberto-aw.eurocontrol.fr (aran.keltia.net [88.191.250.24]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: roberto) by keltia.net (Postfix/TLS) with ESMTPSA id 7AE1A6BF8; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:42:40 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:42:34 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] Message-ID: <20121119134233.GA90169@roberto-aw.eurocontrol.fr> References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50AA2A6C.8060604@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: MacOS X / Macbook Pro - FreeBSD 7.2 / Dell D820 SMP User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:42:45 -0000 According to C. P. Ghost on Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 02:10:40PM +0100: > Even if it was BSD licensed, Mercurial has a huge dependency: > Python; > and Git is Perl-based. So neither of them is ideal, IMHO. Nope, git is almost all C even though some other tools relying on git are in Perl. > If at all, we'd need a lean and mean distributed SCM program > like Mercurial or Git, but written in C that we could add to base. > Any volunteers? We don't have svn in base either. Your point? -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.net In memoriam to Ondine, our 2nd child: http://ondine.keltia.net/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 14:13:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B84687B4 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:13:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nonesuch@longcount.org) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D2278FC08 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:13:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vc0-f182.google.com with SMTP id fo13so6657480vcb.13 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 06:13:10 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:references:from:content-type:x-mailer:in-reply-to :message-id:date:to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :x-gm-message-state; bh=3BQYcKM3SvUvQDdGLK4ePSL2S/3UTYvn7EFhXaHsVeE=; b=E4MGot24aHCR6HGXSFBooc1NnLr6pWCIGv+fyhN/yaDTA6tPEg6Nh+9mYaMdEzrGeF Z5ZaWs6rjzphpuR1JDvBEiIbQIrPaIYAIhW0FC9KV/UQ2DaOGhmNaNJ/hS3Rf4muMxVJ 35W+Lnk498AvX8KbzZExkUenCkvO53DIeplz8n+qUeQldgHMjPVtWhdHbe2QTaxjuiS8 z5OBHEaOt3sFghHc0a/6C3pXhQ8QhxiYjrRcPznX+dyCcu6VNzNNEiaGk04C8NTbu5aP 6fgJYRRM5UsFYIvLL2RbyDcsBPnWLPZ3e5A10J/RKoTjleWTCdvb2zHEI7Ri/Bk4uDHN k7IA== Received: by 10.220.152.11 with SMTP id e11mr18865903vcw.61.1353334390372; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 06:13:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [97.33.25.237] (237.sub-97-33-25.myvzw.com. [97.33.25.237]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id di16sm3977916vdb.11.2012.11.19.06.13.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 19 Nov 2012 06:13:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Using PC-Sysinstall for automated network installs of FreeBSD References: <6AE3D893-A88C-47FA-9DEE-8C0837124481@longcount.org> From: Mark Saad Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B206) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <7AC03C04-FB1B-4307-83C4-9F71825470EE@longcount.org> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 09:13:04 -0500 To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk6XPbNcfVoTlSzDy0dFTWQg4Ci26fZiV/nxLE7iMYqTVkPhz73DAZ3AIHxN4ax2px8lkB9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:13:11 -0000 On Nov 17, 2012, at 12:19 AM, Warren Block wrote: > On Fri, 16 Nov 2012, Mark Saad wrote: >=20 >> On Nov 16, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Warren Block wrote: >>=20 >>> On Fri, 16 Nov 2012, Warren Block wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Trying to start this from SYSLINUX almost works. My menu config just d= oes >>>=20 >>> Actually, it does work on a real machine. It stalls on a VirtualBox VM d= uring or after the NFS root mount. >>=20 >> Strange , I will test it on virtualbox when I get some time next week . I= did a lot of the testing initially on VMware esxi 4.0 and I did not have an= y issues related to VM stuff . What version of vbox did you use ? What netwo= rk interface choice did you use in vbox ? >=20 > VirtualBox 4.1.22, FreeBSD 9-stable amd64 host. Only the "PCnet-FAST III (= Am79C973)" can pxe-boot, and only in bridged mode. Does this nic pxe boot other versions of FreeBSD ? Isn't there a way to mak= e it think it has a intel em nic? --- Mark saad | mark.saad@longcount.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 15:24:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D61E196 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:24:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 020038FC15 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:24:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAJFOMfU026450; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 08:24:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id qAJFOLQ2026447; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 08:24:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 08:24:21 -0700 (MST) From: Warren Block To: Mark Saad Subject: Re: Using PC-Sysinstall for automated network installs of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <7AC03C04-FB1B-4307-83C4-9F71825470EE@longcount.org> Message-ID: References: <6AE3D893-A88C-47FA-9DEE-8C0837124481@longcount.org> <7AC03C04-FB1B-4307-83C4-9F71825470EE@longcount.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 19 Nov 2012 08:24:22 -0700 (MST) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:24:23 -0000 On Mon, 19 Nov 2012, Mark Saad wrote: > > On Nov 17, 2012, at 12:19 AM, Warren Block wrote: > >> On Fri, 16 Nov 2012, Mark Saad wrote: >> >>> On Nov 16, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Warren Block wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, 16 Nov 2012, Warren Block wrote: >>>> >>>>> Trying to start this from SYSLINUX almost works. My menu config just does >>>> >>>> Actually, it does work on a real machine. It stalls on a VirtualBox VM during or after the NFS root mount. >>> >>> Strange , I will test it on virtualbox when I get some time next week . I did a lot of the testing initially on VMware esxi 4.0 and I did not have any issues related to VM stuff . What version of vbox did you use ? What network interface choice did you use in vbox ? >> >> VirtualBox 4.1.22, FreeBSD 9-stable amd64 host. Only the "PCnet-FAST III (Am79C973)" can pxe-boot, and only in bridged mode. > > Does this nic pxe boot other versions of FreeBSD ? I have not tried anything other than 9.x, will give 8.x a try when possible. > Isn't there a way to make it think it has a intel em nic? Yes, but the emulated Intel does not have a boot ROM. There are methods to add a boot ROM, but my attempts at that were not successful and I have not gotten back to it. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 15:55:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D8D4D7B for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:55:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists-freebsd@biaix.org) Received: from hobbes.biaix.org (86.Red-213-97-212.staticIP.rima-tde.net [213.97.212.86]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 946698FC0C for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:55:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 62726 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2012 15:53:03 -0000 Received: from grummit.biaix.org (192.168.124.1) by hobbes.biaix.org with SMTP; 19 Nov 2012 15:53:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 6565 invoked by uid 1012); 19 Nov 2012 15:47:18 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 16:47:18 +0100 From: Joan Picanyol i Puig To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD's SCM periodic bikeshed Message-ID: <20121119154718.GB6367@grummit.biaix.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50AA2A6C.8060604@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 16:03:11 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:55:47 -0000 [security@ and questions@ dropped] * Alexander Yerenkow [20121119 14:40]: > http://www.fossil-scm.org/ > > I'm not fossil user, but it's BSD licensed in written in C. > Baptise Daroussin probably could tell us more about fossil pro and cons. Jörg Sonnenberger has been testing it on NetBSD. http://www.sonnenberger.org/2010/10/24/fossil-and-netbsd/ http://blog.netbsd.org/tnf/entry/fossil_and_git_mirrors_of qvb -- pica From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 17:39:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B934F59 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 17:39:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sfourman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ea0-f182.google.com (mail-ea0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 896B38FC13 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 17:39:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ea0-f182.google.com with SMTP id a14so674071eaa.13 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 09:39:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=vqpEJG9OettI3r2IKBBUMhBh8duskhdXfRfnZDRZ88o=; b=CvpZugFIVQB20TxyVqQ4y1cC6TTNRxeRIPWElV4eQphDZMysNi4/gNgCbREE3kz940 PjSxfGxLivKAW5EJY7gLwpYgNkH7bl7ARCaO7F3EdYdYgQrZtiCYRRFRwsCAXoWynlR5 bz/SWMI0BOnu+aeTZ8c56iy8WzryuAT00sjLcXg7HS+dssoc3HVkaJvMNhGq2BmY84gG FmtKJCbSYsvBHDhdOSaBLRvxOADHsUPUEHV/gQdatTNQKlULzpR8R2xjRcTEUrPn//ek ZLBXMLfc2Hl1hzqrN0ojhzd2hyeogAffrQfYR7lSYc/90b6QKUb+2ByF1d0Ic4m9UkIl ZiRQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.194.72 with SMTP id l48mr26227376een.9.1353346752086; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 09:39:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.14.216.201 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 09:39:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 11:39:11 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Using PC-Sysinstall for automated network installs of FreeBSD From: "Sam Fourman Jr." To: Warren Block Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mark Saad X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 17:39:19 -0000 On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Warren Block wrote: > On Fri, 16 Nov 2012, Mark Saad wrote: > > Useful paths on /export, /export/install/freebsd/9.1/{**i386,amd64} >> this is the contents of the install media rsync'd to a local filesystem >> > > Do you have a way to choose either i386 or amd64 installs? > > > 5 I changed my rc.conf to start a simple shell script and not the >> bsdinstall bits >> > > Maybe you mean "/etc/rc.local" there? > > > export TERM=vt220 >> >> echo "o PC-SYSINSTALL " >> exec /conf/picker.sh >> > this is a interesting place to start on a custom USB installer, as i Want to learn more about how make release works, where would I look or rather what would I modify to get make release generate a larger memstick image, so that it has a few mb of free space on the image.. > -- > Sam Fourman Jr. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 20 03:04:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08D6D631; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 03:04:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xaque208@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pa0-f54.google.com (mail-pa0-f54.google.com [209.85.220.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9B4C8FC13; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 03:04:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id kp6so4025546pab.13 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:04:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=ka4POaggfWqht6arGSuXewq3KgCzCUWkGmyCQLKeVA0=; b=tAUrZYw+Avbax1oD3sv3Qdnx6mC64iIPTyv0TT0BnT4b+N6Ta8/VP90lga5QfoRY19 0DBb0q/EEqB6p33J7Wd40+S+KRNp9OuauUqtLxwKMeJvXUQD2jVzh+o8Topw0O8BGmnf iimqy5g1VNvvqnp8UdsSouvGXjDUNkTgUa91YKie43y6tvZBx8u44qDD56Xt17pTVKHw +OiIsc1TNxePz+owWgz/nZLTsf5UDB/9/ruDoGXMDoJUZNi2GqlIJdmT//da0O2n+hry C5daJwBD9P6J4qyR7vMt87iZN+1e0o1y085PSGP810K37b+HqWW8bwu6jWKonps7CVgR fAZg== Received: by 10.68.197.197 with SMTP id iw5mr38584521pbc.22.1353380689192; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:04:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c-67-171-138-28.hsd1.or.comcast.net. [67.171.138.28]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gu5sm7228613pbc.10.2012.11.19.19.04.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:04:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:04:45 -0800 From: Zach Leslie To: Adrian Chadd Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] Message-ID: <20121120030445.GA38037@zjl.local> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 03:11:18 +0000 Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org, grarpamp , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 03:04:50 -0000 > There's a git repository. It's public. You can look at what goes into > the FreeBSD git clone to get your assurance that things aren't being > snuck in. People are using it, right now. I've always been confused by this. Which source repo is the true source of truth? To obtain the FreeBSD source, you can use CVS, SVN, or Git? Do all have the same level of support? Are they all up to date? > Honestly, I'd rather see subversion grow this kind of cryptographic > signing of each commit in the short term then migrate everyone over to > git. How much effor would their really be involved, considering your link to the FreeBSD source repo on github. Converting the repos to me seems like it would be the bulk of it, and that work is already done. Help me understand please. Also, local branching and merging is amazing. -- Zach From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 20 03:08:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C3817BB; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 03:08:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xaque208@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pa0-f54.google.com (mail-pa0-f54.google.com [209.85.220.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3F58FC08; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 03:08:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id kp6so4027350pab.13 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:08:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=yQ/TOjNSqILr3aI8+yiBsSVCJK+ZerB5cZceCt9Nrdw=; b=T6qmKhLTinyq2wPBvfimGV4ok9nOeMkrfh1hrMNkbfIoTVCjSHw/8Yasds5/0QMAka tgHgTmrm5cFaR/sq/FMKiec0s8y4fd5X7kf+unqZYTtsE4sGH6b46lhztfpfwfPDOOnZ zYNSJKUwlXrkRvRa/kyqpijWbeLV5cp+mNqq15Jc6VqX+DXtII79yI+wpZrvSTFMp4uU Hd8x4NvnIVidBBcC9Rb+hZp4YHJePj+zuuu6s3qoOoQxxDAyGUWMrWn+csmmO8ZSjPM9 pz9Z/l/NPmbpexamR1Jx7fh/cRJUxIZYYNpUJyHftIuL0DWONPz1qfMqTQvX3CwPQwDL wFmw== Received: by 10.68.83.68 with SMTP id o4mr45518238pby.25.1353380896692; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:08:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c-67-171-138-28.hsd1.or.comcast.net. [67.171.138.28]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l4sm4470616paw.15.2012.11.19.19.08.14 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:08:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:08:13 -0800 From: Zach Leslie To: Alexander Yerenkow Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] Message-ID: <20121120030813.GB38037@zjl.local> References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50AA2A6C.8060604@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 03:27:00 +0000 Cc: "C. P. Ghost" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Volodymyr Kostyrko , freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Ivan Voras , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 03:08:17 -0000 > http://www.fossil-scm.org/ > > I'm not fossil user, but it's BSD licensed in written in C. > Baptise Daroussin probably could tell us more about fossil pro and cons. This misses one of of the main points raised in the original post. The proliferation of git as a revision control system. Also, this particular tool bails out on the unix philosophy, with its web gui, ticket tracker etc. Do one thing. Do it well. -- Zach From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 20 03:27:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5151EDE for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 03:27:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-la0-f54.google.com (mail-la0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 420E68FC14 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 03:27:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-la0-f54.google.com with SMTP id j13so5236519lah.13 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:27:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=jsS/E58dp6B0WJ/g1W3K/kKKp7huNh7sb8xpxuxuHd8=; b=iLcuL5O+xhZVDo9Zdhfo8JyfFDj28TI0I0ItaVXn2auerCYASOBYMdiBYvKVDI8e/5 U8lcHIyPgaUv9uRroRjIe2E3XeohwaMFpCcHVLMzHhqK/pIaBMWUJ26jr13CYLjY4Vm6 3Cpazmy+CxSNxa4db554v0MV5S5oxcn/5whjM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=jsS/E58dp6B0WJ/g1W3K/kKKp7huNh7sb8xpxuxuHd8=; b=OZDn16VnPGXX2f0efeMVvj17MrFy12PTdDENDXTnKTcbvWdCo9bZbL3mpsum911Olq Jo9HtkJ+2BECmhUzfP4JVM90ROhopLUrgGe42W7hBgpjMvmo/ojytSLvhQYNgRhhn9kt 2PSaXUAG0HaFMEPLzPvX04m/N5pxwbOrWJjniggG0A2z4oERfrNXnjLE5lwopUGY4+xX mnMQrztyaOfd0oa/xAv1adfNv9Ar/dIn/ogi7J+CDoPKrdw6hvuPB0fgzWuw4BYycCXQ CkQ2f4mM3x3z0R13mWFgCmR/ROs51A3BVseGU+dLUV+d0LoDplQG4h7rColH/U1GsOqP P09Q== Received: by 10.152.104.148 with SMTP id ge20mr13171371lab.51.1353382052946; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:27:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.25.166 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:27:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20121120030445.GA38037@zjl.local> References: <20121120030445.GA38037@zjl.local> From: Eitan Adler Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:27:01 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] To: Zach Leslie Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkcotM5p7cEPQW13i2DBaL4UB8jbc5GDmlybxs5w99323ysDYSrw35OAQHUOfkgFvvEW7yF Cc: Adrian Chadd , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org, grarpamp , freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 03:27:34 -0000 On 19 November 2012 22:04, Zach Leslie wrote: > I've always been confused by this. Which source repo is the true source > of truth? This changed a few months ago when ports and doc switched. As of now: - SVN is *the* source of truth. - CVS is exported from svn. It will eventually go away - git is exported from svn. It will remain as an option for developers (including myself). > To obtain the FreeBSD source, you can use CVS, SVN, or Git? Do all have > the same level of support? Are they all up to date? SVN is *always* up to date. We try really hard to keep the others up to date, but fail at times. > Also, local branching and merging is amazing. +1 - but one can always use git-svn. -- Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 20 10:15:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD586DFB for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:15:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B2EB8FC14 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:15:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 16so7335868obc.13 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 02:15:09 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=user-agent:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:date:to:cc:message-id :x-gm-message-state; bh=PsOx20ZF2cgshgI6vtE8CpGUE4lqpDnsLZHn/15gzqw=; b=Q/uUz4LFBmklxErbx9WOK1J6uVbl4tFCLmw79b2bcov7V8UJcLfNM61RXqTORIKn9V Il4iGF8I3x19gxY37Cjo6WnTMV3bFsLoNMYwATp/ELfLpbroeEvBVwA2GJB6n+/26Nj4 BD5bmwIx1olKJwt32mJkdrXzgzF/EL0LwNosDgZL889DqoGHguDiFB8ZFAe7Cig+e9dm F/3xjMjferBTjO+xweBBNU2nHoPcFcXztFCL1VgyWqGCuC5Dpb+w7DPTfkhcSB2a0TG5 to72iJDYir/1GqZno4gmuvjDtVDoIPqWyq+13YXbGZC1exHY6+mwxTw52rhTVuxjjfDk D5WQ== Received: by 10.60.14.200 with SMTP id r8mr13203099oec.45.1353406509540; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 02:15:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from android-17cbdb9246b29c31.mired.org (ip72-200-195-210.ok.ok.cox.net. [72.200.195.210]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id yn8sm12625408obb.12.2012.11.20.02.15.07 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 20 Nov 2012 02:15:08 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <20121120030813.GB38037@zjl.local> References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50AA2A6C.8060604@gmail.com> <20121120030813.GB38037@zjl.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] From: Mike Meyer Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 04:15:02 -0600 To: Zach Leslie ,Alexander Yerenkow Message-ID: X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn2I3400Z6JbR/rWe6bGmTcD5TRuJPGaYEWlUB2VKLBMPoxAxsX1gY+3cL6CmlFG+36V1dz Cc: "C. P. Ghost" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Volodymyr Kostyrko , freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Ivan Voras , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:15:10 -0000 Zach Leslie wrote: >> http://www.fossil-scm.org/ l >> >> I'm not fossil user, but it's BSD licensed in written in C. >Also, this particular tool bails out on the unix philosophy, with its >web >gui, ticket tracker etc. Do one thing. Do it well. I would argue that git bails on that as well, but that's a different discussion. Whether or not fossil does "one thing" depends on which "one thing" you pick. If the one thing is "version control", you're right. However "version control" is just one aspect of a larger task that does't have a common name. But if you look at systems designed for managing projects with source, you'll see they universally provide web uis, issue trackers, and wikis. Due you trash IDE's because they provide tools that are useful for doing "software development" instead of limiting themselves to being "text editors"? That fossil provides all of those things in a single relatively small program is a major win - at least for small projects (which is the fossil target). On the other hand, the fossil project does stay focused on the core task. They will reject a change proposal because it's not part of that task. That said, much as I like fossil (it's my goto VCS) I don't think it would be a good choice for FreeBSD. We're not a small project - we have people who are willing to devote time to things like an external wiki and isse tracker. Nuts, we have (had?) repos in four different VCSs! Those features in fossil are purposely kept simple since they're meant for doing one thing, not as general-purpose tools for lots of things. The issue tracker doesn't support branching issues, which is liable to cause problems in a large project. The FreeBSD wiki's are used for lots of things other than just project documents. The web ui - well, that's probably useable as is. But that one thing isn't a deal maker. -- Sent from my Android tablet with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my swyping. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 21 00:41:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79CAFFDD; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:41:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ea0-f182.google.com (mail-ea0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 733618FC14; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:41:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ea0-f182.google.com with SMTP id a14so1347965eaa.13 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 16:41:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=a2qUeBhYJcVqm/vWaf/MxxA39D9XaLvFlXyjJ3FpUPU=; b=ESwbhsbrlxE4XzSU+N78XfG3itpBuxjhnh4SlpnsneeYXmojeT+E5ZKAMnBXS5gyCn 3n0sw0PYtGL/F6UZTZp8vuZULewO1ngNCYUMTwLfP+P+Rl0ZABz99/Jh/ptj6pQEB615 /Ken8TgwK3iZwD5iHyoFj63OvZupvGHbt6812ZdzbK77AZK5VcSoax6gNnMbAXo7G6ol 0bhsPRyG/1OV+Qo6gOFW8A0xfnYEB29QD+qgfsIorPJyR3l52PoQhTaYvIgNiaePgVSJ bznkKn3qp6CGSpWwhX+GPdM9QEhmc4ohFrHhYFYRYWKz/4xCCUXPvPK2nnMex+E30amJ 0j6Q== Received: by 10.14.216.193 with SMTP id g41mr39367451eep.37.1353458465269; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 16:41:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ithaqua.etoilebsd.net (ithaqua.etoilebsd.net. [37.59.37.188]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 2sm33788564eef.17.2012.11.20.16.41.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 20 Nov 2012 16:41:04 -0800 (PST) Sender: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:41:02 +0100 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Zach Leslie Subject: Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident] Message-ID: <20121121004102.GQ71195@ithaqua.etoilebsd.net> References: <20121117221143.41c29ba2@nonamehost> <50AA2A6C.8060604@gmail.com> <20121120030813.GB38037@zjl.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="G6ArjEZjY3m60389" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20121120030813.GB38037@zjl.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Alexander Yerenkow , "C. P. Ghost" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Volodymyr Kostyrko , freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Ivan Voras , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:41:07 -0000 --G6ArjEZjY3m60389 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 07:08:13PM -0800, Zach Leslie wrote: > > http://www.fossil-scm.org/ > >=20 > > I'm not fossil user, but it's BSD licensed in written in C. > > Baptise Daroussin probably could tell us more about fossil pro and cons. >=20 > This misses one of of the main points raised in the original post. The > proliferation of git as a revision control system. >=20 > Also, this particular tool bails out on the unix philosophy, with its web > gui, ticket tracker etc. Do one thing. Do it well. >=20 Look at the internal of fossil and how things are done in fossil and you wo= uld understand that the last sentence is totally wrong. Fossil has really nice features that could nicely fits with FreeBSD workflo= ws and greatly improves it. It has most of the new shiny feature everyone can expect from a dvcs, but it also has it drawbacks: The converted repositories (I did convert docs, src and ports) with full hi= story kept: branches, tags, etc. is huge and the first clone would be painful to = do. On the other side you have multiple working copies open on the same clone w= hich is really nice. Some of the operations can be slow, J=F6rg Sonnenberger wrote an analysis a= bout this one the fossil wiki, but don't remember the link sorry. =46rom my testing, apart from the do we really need a new scm question? I a= m a big fan of fossil and find it easier and cleaner than all the other scm I know,= I use git for pkgng and other projects, I use a lot mercurial on some other a= rea, and fossil remains my favorite :). But I really don't think it could fit FreeBSD's requirements as it is now. but there are lots of room of improvem= ents. The learning curve to fossil is probably really easy. On of the last thing is that fossil lacks keyword expansion. That said I'm happy with svn on FreeBSD, I still from time to time do conve= rsion of out different tree to fossil for fun, but no more and I won't advocate f= or any vcs change. Bapt --G6ArjEZjY3m60389 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAlCsIx4ACgkQ8kTtMUmk6ExNdQCeOyKnCwMEgLgxzYvhc291sQen c3cAnjTrPoy2qLq4wd9QHtU+9zjb366B =eJAx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --G6ArjEZjY3m60389-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 21 05:45:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61E123E8 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 05:45:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15BB48FC08 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 05:45:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAL5jrob042840; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:45:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id qAL5jqgo042837; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:45:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:45:52 -0700 (MST) From: Warren Block To: Mark Saad Subject: Re: Using PC-Sysinstall for automated network installs of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <7AC03C04-FB1B-4307-83C4-9F71825470EE@longcount.org> Message-ID: References: <6AE3D893-A88C-47FA-9DEE-8C0837124481@longcount.org> <7AC03C04-FB1B-4307-83C4-9F71825470EE@longcount.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:45:53 -0700 (MST) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 05:45:54 -0000 On Mon, 19 Nov 2012, Mark Saad wrote: > > On Nov 17, 2012, at 12:19 AM, Warren Block wrote: > >> On Fri, 16 Nov 2012, Mark Saad wrote: >> >>> On Nov 16, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Warren Block wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, 16 Nov 2012, Warren Block wrote: >>>> >>>>> Trying to start this from SYSLINUX almost works. My menu config just does >>>> >>>> Actually, it does work on a real machine. It stalls on a VirtualBox VM during or after the NFS root mount. >>> >>> Strange , I will test it on virtualbox when I get some time next week . I did a lot of the testing initially on VMware esxi 4.0 and I did not have any issues related to VM stuff . What version of vbox did you use ? What network interface choice did you use in vbox ? >> >> VirtualBox 4.1.22, FreeBSD 9-stable amd64 host. Only the "PCnet-FAST III (Am79C973)" can pxe-boot, and only in bridged mode. > > Does this nic pxe boot other versions of FreeBSD ? Isn't there a way to make it think it has a intel em nic? Either this is VirtualBox weirdness as I would like to believe, or more likely user error, because now I've managed to boot FreeBSD 8 and 9 with this setup. Don't know what the difference was. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 01:59:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B5DE933 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 01:59:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07F258FC13 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 01:59:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id l1so10367724vba.13 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 17:59:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=7j0kBul2K1Uny89qbG8uS+qSfzxwDB/9/Nd10cddcb0=; b=Z02ZtYiWj8stOHy5kutTok3uGOmHIoqR5m/V09NDrDF7fbnUdfqMZ73XtLnRhtL9Wg 8G8IbeH4ExmJCOM3QwYGzI+7zgaDG8nVBRIp1noiIsbFBGdFbgquQ6th8xM2Qf5StS/R PvuH3TaWquO/G7DfWigyaNRYJLZtGo2WlHJ/w= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :x-gm-message-state; bh=7j0kBul2K1Uny89qbG8uS+qSfzxwDB/9/Nd10cddcb0=; b=kKmMJv8ukwQ4yE/FtA9nam1thRBvz6pDlPuU3vao6mWNEiyjJmt2CTXbVv14LY4KTv kdMRcb4DO3QtCCwtqL0GbzHYzljlL0O41EAvgYU4Zl3wqRoN6vTd6aY59Xo1pnCdtHJc 0BBVHkLNuXGJRmDzecMp4rs7BHu1lfbne/Rq45YmGpFRQdEqyYL2IbEozwDCP+lASo26 LaWyyG4WCkyrnPu302o77UzRRnqsZJDljshi7VQ5AbsACJ8Qn8iGyhndnttXEEm4AJ1S ujHHyUM1QRqMlG71xLXw+0+MbQyrFTH/SdPSkrbvu7jsFUJFE3aWZ1BwVtEHtnM3ZZJ5 amWQ== Received: by 10.52.90.241 with SMTP id bz17mr3808935vdb.40.1353549560073; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 17:59:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.155.197 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 17:58:49 -0800 (PST) From: Eitan Adler Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:58:49 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: old style kernel configuration To: FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmLndQY2m5ZktsvJK2pPcV1eyTR0HwU2Gj82sr6C3TBC6gjhTyZ8STDQaoLpBuLL1uwcny7 Cc: Benjamin Kaduk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 01:59:21 -0000 I've been working on removing obsolete information various documents. While going through older articles I noticed a few references to the "old style" kernel configuration involving running config(1) manually. Is there any value in keeping this documented as an alternative to "make buildkernel" or should it be treated as an implementation detail? -- Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 02:21:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E66F9362; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 02:21:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A22C48FC08; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 02:21:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.17]) by ltcfislmsgpa07.fnfis.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAM2Lc0E029904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:21:38 -0600 Received: from [10.0.0.100] (10.14.152.61) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.309.2; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:21:37 -0600 Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Devin Teske In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:21:36 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: To: Eitan Adler X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.61] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.9.8185, 1.0.431, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-11-21_04:2012-11-21,2012-11-21,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , Benjamin Kaduk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: Devin Teske List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 02:21:47 -0000 On Nov 21, 2012, at 5:58 PM, Eitan Adler wrote: > I've been working on removing obsolete information various documents. > While going through older articles I noticed a few references to the > "old style" kernel configuration involving running config(1) manually. >=20 I always build kernels with config(1) because it allows me to embed the _en= tire_ kernel config into the kernel (by using the "-C" option to config(1)). Otherwise, if I rely only on the INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE parameter, the comment= s are stripped from my config prior to embedding (and this is undesirable a= nd thus why we always configure our kernel by executing "config -C -g confi= gname"). > Is there any value in keeping this documented as an alternative to > "make buildkernel" or should it be treated as an implementation detail? >=20 Value: ability to embed entire config (comments and all) into the kernel Maybe this difference/value should be documented. --=20 Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware= that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and revie= w by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 04:07:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C1B283 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 04:07:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bryan@shatow.net) Received: from secure.xzibition.com (secure.xzibition.com [173.160.118.92]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D93C28FC13 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 04:07:04 +0000 (UTC) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=shatow.net; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=sweb; b=n948LC 612ISp7mnX7hdsGcB8YiZjGjD/LLagjCWBwJ8sb5tOh0QZOHaM4H8gBWytqUxyaL X8En2WBd/Z2/63233xFDNaO7/yRsUG1TQvl9KVrr/JZzNBgfCBueqTEZcRKmEkc8 2DrhQpQpe+rD0e5+831SQuCyLJx1yd8AiDTRQ= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=shatow.net; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=sweb; bh=r4EAEzmov7gw NHo98QKLWPD2ftBFTMjWc+HFitjP2To=; b=CLf7V3tiYnI4AWoNaihTlIkL843K /C1uZniIqIEpjAdMZOdTId1OqNWotMfm6hm0dxpDs894aUkWwfWfz+t27pFibnbr ztJtRLyyYS0EwAPEsbNcNBlpRXufUrN3Es+j5M0M2Nodj41yIXE84qnal71etvap wz/Mx9+xvpK/Dkg= Received: (qmail 25445 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2012 22:06:56 -0600 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.10.0.115?) (bryan@shatow.net@10.10.0.115) by sweb.xzibition.com with ESMTPA; 21 Nov 2012 22:06:56 -0600 Message-ID: <50ADA4DD.5010801@shatow.net> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 22:06:53 -0600 From: Bryan Drewery User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Devin Teske Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.6 OpenPGP: id=3C9B0CF9; url=http://www.shatow.net/bryan/bryan.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 04:09:54 +0000 Cc: Eitan Adler , Benjamin Kaduk , FreeBSD Hackers X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 04:07:05 -0000 On 11/21/2012 8:21 PM, Devin Teske wrote: > > On Nov 21, 2012, at 5:58 PM, Eitan Adler wrote: > >> I've been working on removing obsolete information various documents. >> While going through older articles I noticed a few references to the >> "old style" kernel configuration involving running config(1) manually. >> > > I always build kernels with config(1) because it allows me to embed the _entire_ kernel config into the kernel (by using the "-C" option to config(1)). > > Otherwise, if I rely only on the INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE parameter, the comments are stripped from my config prior to embedding (and this is undesirable and thus why we always configure our kernel by executing "config -C -g configname"). > > >> Is there any value in keeping this documented as an alternative to >> "make buildkernel" or should it be treated as an implementation detail? >> > > Value: ability to embed entire config (comments and all) into the kernel > > Maybe this difference/value should be documented. > Maybe it makes sense to add INCLUDE_ENTIRE_CONFIG_FILE? Bryan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 04:53:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E0C8C51; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 04:53:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A16A8FC16; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 04:53:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from JRE-MBP-2.local (c-50-143-149-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [50.143.149.146]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAM4r1Gn085494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:53:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <50ADAFA8.4020501@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:52:56 -0800 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eitan Adler Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , Benjamin Kaduk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 04:53:04 -0000 On 11/21/12 5:58 PM, Eitan Adler wrote: > I've been working on removing obsolete information various documents. > While going through older articles I noticed a few references to the > "old style" kernel configuration involving running config(1) manually. > > Is there any value in keeping this documented as an alternative to > "make buildkernel" or should it be treated as an implementation detail? I still do it quite often > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 05:05:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2526BEF8 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 05:05:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEDE48FC12 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 05:05:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vc0-f182.google.com with SMTP id fo13so10719303vcb.13 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 21:05:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=8PM1bETKe76WyQqHL8UKQt062a+EVqeCmZa6bx7Vl/Y=; b=JsILKc6Pks9qiSVIkcX49FhHuUvzXO1QQE2TrbDLJAb5S6BconXfD6y5xkleZwwopX XLUKV6FQt11G1rb0fJUYChYsGiqIu9lgopW6gaVurRhjInqilOGAYqVLPg2Kp8Ph59kZ 6NYpzlQfvvew2SRfEaz4B8FeK5ioZMrJElv+Q= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=8PM1bETKe76WyQqHL8UKQt062a+EVqeCmZa6bx7Vl/Y=; b=fDEtkHdMhMFFjdobGhoMUPKUz1gfqvF+6NKwsJs9E50s3tWUnDpVB/z22qs1LpiwFZ fKkR7PssifRytvgY2lOBcV+bYxHfLAkvlcZ7tAvjZyguWfkr3oVzqe6o1hx+5y24pYkY N7YuQE11S15fz0yCWBJW061EQhrxsqfmkYbpT8ah/YnhyFyfClcNYgbrN5/jiyqBPLjR z2dpX5Goc6QOhFwJI733oqtaJrIRaBJ/WBUv3Gcls/xIv05DoBBpdR4zZSfck3V5t2ST a3R2Wg/SqxCaYEY8FM+UsS1yrziSxJuysXm+BRnUXL6prkdQ4C+pU1lD/sN6m1dG8Lus 4BOw== Received: by 10.52.66.48 with SMTP id c16mr21945267vdt.14.1353560717538; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 21:05:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.155.197 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Nov 2012 21:04:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <50ADAFA8.4020501@freebsd.org> References: <50ADAFA8.4020501@freebsd.org> From: Eitan Adler Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 00:04:47 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration To: Julian Elischer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkXTOhprFNgLhyB/314Bz63Ac99vrpG2VQJs7qqqU5/YjBOMpISI/KPCKaJt1Z7gzcVlipa Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , Benjamin Kaduk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 05:05:24 -0000 On 21 November 2012 23:52, Julian Elischer wrote: > On 11/21/12 5:58 PM, Eitan Adler wrote: >> >> I've been working on removing obsolete information various documents. >> While going through older articles I noticed a few references to the >> "old style" kernel configuration involving running config(1) manually. >> >> Is there any value in keeping this documented as an alternative to >> "make buildkernel" or should it be treated as an implementation detail? > > > I still do it quite often Could you explain why? I think I will keep the documentation but I want to update it with some explanation of when one wants to use the old method. -- Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 16:13:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50A6E4D3 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:13:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 087968FC12 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:13:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAMGDG79015802; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 09:13:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id qAMGDFUo015799; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 09:13:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 09:13:15 -0700 (MST) From: Warren Block To: Mark Saad Subject: Re: Using PC-Sysinstall for automated network installs of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 22 Nov 2012 09:13:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:13:17 -0000 On Fri, 16 Nov 2012, Mark Saad wrote: > The install config > ------------------------ > > I created /conf/ada-install.cfg and /conf/da-install.cfg the only > difference here is the name of the disk as that is not auto > discovered. > > Here is ada-install.cfg > > # User Generated pc-sysinstall configuration > installInteractive=no > installMode=fresh > installType=FreeBSD > installMedium=local > localPath=/usr/freebsd-dist/ > installFile=fbsd-release.txz > packageType=tar > > hostname=nynewserver1.ops.com > netDev=AUTO-DHCP > > > # Disk Setup > disk0=ada0 #Change me to suite your needs pc-bsdinstall does not seem to like a trailing comment. Moving this comment to a separate line fixes it. Another problem is that I've not figured out how to set a root password in the installer file tree for login after Shell is selected. Or rather, pw -V /usr/tftpboot/images/freebsd9-i386/etc usermod root -h 0 changes the password, but something still causes the system to show "Login incorrect" when it is entered. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 16:26:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AED3F954; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:26:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CACF8FC13; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:26:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAMGPhWm007424; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 17:25:44 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id qAMGPhqF007421; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 17:25:43 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 17:25:43 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Eitan Adler Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 22 Nov 2012 17:25:44 +0100 (CET) Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , Benjamin Kaduk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:26:07 -0000 On Wed, 21 Nov 2012, Eitan Adler wrote: > I've been working on removing obsolete information various documents. > While going through older articles I noticed a few references to the > "old style" kernel configuration involving running config(1) manually. > > Is there any value in keeping this documented as an alternative to > "make buildkernel" or should it be treated as an implementation detail? why should i do "make buildkernel" when not cross compiling? i always use config From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 16:26:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5227A3C; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:26:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1239C8FC14; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:26:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAMGQLYt007432; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 17:26:21 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id qAMGQLIH007429; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 17:26:21 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 17:26:21 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Devin Teske Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 22 Nov 2012 17:26:21 +0100 (CET) Cc: Eitan Adler , Benjamin Kaduk , FreeBSD Hackers X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:26:27 -0000 >> > > Value: ability to embed entire config (comments and all) into the kernel value 2: simplicity. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 16:35:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF641C20; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:35:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zbeeble@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31D978FC08; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:35:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lb0-f182.google.com with SMTP id go10so5405280lbb.13 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:35:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=j/rexF3qSNVk4rk/OejRNNF5HZKLaQ8YesMFw0PKcUY=; b=W3TpbXVIFjjsK4L7zqTT+TchhpvaxNfb4hihDx6Nms6T/49Sp1c5zjnzO1c7QaTRku H0kbSl3G2rHM1SlK0C/pvcmsAYTa+6SxcIWHsQCOS107NVPYhZLlM53ENk0xor669b54 rNsFry5KqnfRcTFG7N+NFoBVzfgyY2Q3tm0xnowz0RO6adXs1fJLeQw73dTvoN06in62 2rQPzZMVtdIt0/uwWjIoKcCgecB6pti3F40fWow70ZDR/YTuCjR+6WbGxxfNehsgd4Xb 5f0/V8533jNKRrKctZXsfw/dZ+pIHj2c7nv0pd0NKzwwqY0XKa/7Q9Daj8X5GUoLEMrJ J50A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.162.1 with SMTP id xw1mr1002216lab.3.1353602157716; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:35:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.49.138 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:35:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 11:35:57 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration From: Zaphod Beeblebrox To: Eitan Adler Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , Benjamin Kaduk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:35:59 -0000 On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Eitan Adler wrote: > I've been working on removing obsolete information various documents. > While going through older articles I noticed a few references to the > "old style" kernel configuration involving running config(1) manually. > > Is there any value in keeping this documented as an alternative to > "make buildkernel" or should it be treated as an implementation detail? I suppose it makes less difference on a modern system where "make buildkernel" takes 15 minutes or even less, but the manual kernel build gives the opportunity to rebuild a kernel without building everything --- as in the case where you just modified something simple (say USB or PCI device IDs). I'm not talking about the dedicate kernel developer who should "know things" like this, but the user who makes these kernel modifications occasionally. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 16:39:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D542D6C; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:39:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mjguzik@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f170.google.com (mail-wi0-f170.google.com [209.85.212.170]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E14208FC12; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:39:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wi0-f170.google.com with SMTP id hq7so816720wib.1 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:39:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=/pp/KL3aihwcoe0PLcYGU2GmwvdnmsNgV7OmC1nzD9o=; b=CHR4JP2FqcjeWK9gu/IltiTCSfSVTbCW+Dh0PyzBvqGSMZDeBpcXODvTxHqxDu3j2c y7qlI0P/BO/l6bfb60e2HF/hSSgVvqBI8oavQmIfVejGbNDh5Q7SgfRZvnQw+xhWCb6c gm08VX8ZCZoZCQDkOoNL1EGk90nuu8/GzOXEYF1oCkxActULURqFSGQphsEt34CE3TuL sjpiYKvjCRDMOtGE9oY5kNMUYlMJG9Jkye18xsosH13sHoL0UNP85NywXgMem9wO/xkT jUELO2MhtrABL9kuyQorYbqBpPV4vhclGeudUhG/gLUz20NFpXXRhtWULg/6xrvLr2Vl wh6A== Received: by 10.216.204.72 with SMTP id g50mr487447weo.160.1353602347607; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:39:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from dft-labs.eu (n1x0n-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net. [2001:470:1f08:1f7::2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hv4sm4808821wib.0.2012.11.22.08.39.05 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:39:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 17:38:58 +0100 From: Mateusz Guzik To: Zaphod Beeblebrox Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration Message-ID: <20121122163857.GA25225@dft-labs.eu> Mail-Followup-To: Mateusz Guzik , Zaphod Beeblebrox , Eitan Adler , FreeBSD Hackers , Benjamin Kaduk References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: Eitan Adler , Benjamin Kaduk , FreeBSD Hackers X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:39:09 -0000 On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 11:35:57AM -0500, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Eitan Adler wrote: > > I've been working on removing obsolete information various documents. > > While going through older articles I noticed a few references to the > > "old style" kernel configuration involving running config(1) manually. > > > > Is there any value in keeping this documented as an alternative to > > "make buildkernel" or should it be treated as an implementation detail? > > I suppose it makes less difference on a modern system where "make > buildkernel" takes 15 minutes or even less, but the manual kernel > build gives the opportunity to rebuild a kernel without building > everything --- as in the case where you just modified something simple > (say USB or PCI device IDs). I'm not talking about the dedicate > kernel developer who should "know things" like this, but the user who > makes these kernel modifications occasionally. # make buildkernel ... KERNFAST=1 -- Mateusz Guzik From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 16:43:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D10F27; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:43:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE958FC08; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:42:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-bk0-f54.google.com with SMTP id je9so3070335bkc.13 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:42:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=tx2L1eQKmNu7ZadbzOdnmZU7WRryPoEBYKVVBXEPSrc=; b=YG0VLMXdGWYCvCWMYFy/ymmpMg7VZUZ4HREn+Q3yaEW3q/DCTjz8VpLETiCZtYr6Ct Vr4vXbSvJTWknKsDFMTbp7K9lzbSwmcrSGKcMeapsOUu7g8ZUupyjvgr9iQIQtrfVld9 H7YwCwo8VkOXJkJsy25kueAv0zaqEaba/R716YDlYh6+roXdQjMkYTc620nuq8Z3wBq/ GH8fP8rsYq7F/x1O8+XY3Ocrtf4C8U9p2tF1vpsYAWLXcXDGzjoqog+SCidX3jtR/dCo d07W3S6QhTljHy54P+t6C1uqn9ZN0Ly2muqRusWEc7YvB2eDQavk4aNZLfHpXakEOmTb rvlQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.4.131 with SMTP id 3mr514307bkr.25.1353602578850; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:42:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.50.197 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:42:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.50.197 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:42:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:42:58 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration From: Chris Rees To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Devin Teske , Eitan Adler , Benjamin Kaduk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:43:01 -0000 On 22 Nov 2012 16:26, "Wojciech Puchar" wrote: >>> >>> >> >> Value: ability to embed entire config (comments and all) into the kernel > > > value 2: simplicity. > How is it simpler? Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 18:56:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81CBBEC; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 18:56:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233568FC13; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 18:56:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAMIuRsn009002; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 19:56:27 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id qAMIuRQX008999; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 19:56:27 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 19:56:27 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chris Rees Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 22 Nov 2012 19:56:27 +0100 (CET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Devin Teske , Eitan Adler , Benjamin Kaduk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 18:56:34 -0000 > > How is it simpler? > > Chris > > > strange question i thought it is obviously clear. $EDITOR config config cd ../compile/ make depend make make install that's all. and no need to keep whole /usr/src, just sys what is wrong in it? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 20:32:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD1C3FCF; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:32:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6AFE8FC12; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:32:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-bk0-f54.google.com with SMTP id je9so3161804bkc.13 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 12:32:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=ZDxHFW/KXIQsh1f76+lm8nlvnTNrNVpNRR3n16tlvWI=; b=Q1cccapWFKLWNUNHIW9E/VoKczA2GFoOiYkEN9rrxym8dk3JPEnw96ADweYquxPEGZ 6aeHpf1Qbe08Sn7Ht8DzOCTOIXHy8j7HlKBr2eASnauq1Vkh1StbBCoJ2pE5n/7SK96H vhDYqHBlzThNWjJlFEc6ogvr3v3vzCh8lNyc4lwboC7PpgxzJqZvfQxvBNNl5pdeT7Mb 96Vm4bOuUEEAjuZVUwHIqGcdrybO6qgrCCNM+H0AefJ0zcjgoecG4SMN0aGSa9BkXP/T KMiuAErWDKFO99ly2r5pL1dVhemP7hwENQymy6nGGDFSkfb4WE2rWARzmntAzgVZ8rgS 1XFg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.143.147 with SMTP id v19mr699484bku.32.1353616042995; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 12:27:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.50.197 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 12:27:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.50.197 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 12:27:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:27:22 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration From: Chris Rees To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: Benjamin Kaduk , Devin Teske , Eitan Adler , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:32:49 -0000 On 22 Nov 2012 18:56, "Wojciech Puchar" wrote: >> >> >> How is it simpler? >> >> Chris >> >> >> > strange question i thought it is obviously clear. > > $EDITOR config > config > cd ../compile/ > make depend > make > make install > > > that's all. and no need to keep whole /usr/src, just sys > > what is wrong in it? I was only confused because you had asserted that six commands was simpler-- Now you point out that you don't keep a src tree, paired with freebsd-update it is be a good combination for custom kernels :) Thank you for clarifying. Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 20:43:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA32945A; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:43:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 174048FC08; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:43:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAMKh4XK009547; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 21:43:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id qAMKh4uM009544; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 21:43:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 21:43:04 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chris Rees Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 22 Nov 2012 21:43:04 +0100 (CET) Cc: Benjamin Kaduk , Devin Teske , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Eitan Adler X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:43:14 -0000 > I was only confused because you had asserted that six commands was > simpler-- Now you point out that you don't keep a src tree, paired with > freebsd-update it is be a good combination for custom kernels :) > > Thank you for clarifying. this is not a discussion. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 21:08:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2502A7F; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 21:08:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B97B8FC15; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 21:08:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.31]) by ltcfislmsgpa05.fnfis.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAML86jK008126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 22 Nov 2012 15:08:06 -0600 Received: from [10.0.0.100] (10.14.152.61) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.309.2; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 15:08:05 -0600 Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) From: Devin Teske In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:08:03 -0800 Message-ID: References: To: Chris Rees X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.61] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.9.8185, 1.0.431, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-11-22_07:2012-11-22,2012-11-22,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , Devin Teske , Eitan Adler , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Benjamin Kaduk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: Devin Teske List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 21:08:08 -0000 On Nov 22, 2012, at 12:27 PM, Chris Rees wrote: >=20 > On 22 Nov 2012 18:56, "Wojciech Puchar" = wrote: > >> > >> > >> How is it simpler? > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> > > strange question i thought it is obviously clear. > > > > $EDITOR config > > config > > cd ../compile/ > > make depend > > make > > make install > > > > > > that's all. and no need to keep whole /usr/src, just sys > > > > what is wrong in it? >=20 > I was only confused because you had asserted that six commands was simple= r-- >=20 I can relate to Mr Puchar's vantage point. It's not the number of commands, it's the pathos. Memorizing how to configure a custom kernel, one can memorize two different= pathos: =3D=3D=3D A =3D=3D=3D I have to make a config file I have to use the make(1) utility within a full src-tree to produce the ker= nel from that config I can't remember the arguments to make =3D=3D=3D B =3D=3D=3D I have to make a config file I have to use the config(1) utility on my config file The config(1) utility tells me what to do after I run it, I do what config(= 1) tells me =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D In both A and B, we start with a config file. Things differ from there. I do buy the argument that B is simpler than A, despite the fact that B req= uires more commands than A. B can be thought-of as simpler because I only h= ave to memorize three things to get a kernel: (1) start with a config file,= (2) run config with said file (3) follow the instructions that config give= s me. Meanwhile, in comparison, A requires the memorization of different an= d arguably less accessible information. One might even be able to argue that the pathos of B is simpler because it = relies on a purpose-built tool (config(1)) to get you where you want to be = versus a multi-purpose tool (make(1)). Just my tuppence. --=20 Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware= that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and revie= w by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 22 21:17:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29455BFC; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 21:17:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5B498FC13; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 21:17:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 16so10844656obc.13 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=1GgBiq+QHGhvQVynQNxZlhDvgUMHcQqQp7GGKJ6R5tE=; b=GhvAYiwYNP3jV9xtyff5pHKN7jB56+q5st9yJjSwgzH3gw4gsiQDcVbrAdXZJVPNdz qUYOMpdYIdy7cFU5lWokABK6CqYQ++yB7P8J9N4NdAl6vLeh8wqmmUKtqaA7TjaSw0gl 8rEXRLMCLSUXBghe///X5NJ3ElwBxf37Q/VNSgIHDbZ+eXV1hR7B3UZAllVmvOoCAlQq /W9Tb+NcHPJD45h+3BhzdqcNID4z/epGqW9d+xKhOjztKhVZCQWuka/YIilVwSOUkgjW R+MpCNrnMMClWyfkUtpW6iOEfgI+NkEeJYGxnnD25dJIL44L7FaFnjqTxN7qH+2iZO0m WRaQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.11.105 with SMTP id p9mr1298042oeb.128.1353619027291; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.143.33 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:17:07 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration From: Garrett Cooper To: Eitan Adler Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , Benjamin Kaduk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 21:17:08 -0000 On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 5:58 PM, Eitan Adler wrote: > I've been working on removing obsolete information various documents. > While going through older articles I noticed a few references to the > "old style" kernel configuration involving running config(1) manually. > > Is there any value in keeping this documented as an alternative to > "make buildkernel" or should it be treated as an implementation detail? For new/non-advanced users, this shouldn't necessarily be exposed except as an implementation detail and a historical artifact; more directions, not less serve to confuse the masses -> see git as a perfect example of this with all of its workflows. I think the question that should be asked first is: who's your target audience (remember, hackers are generally the more and not less advanced target audience)? Once this question can be answered, I think it would become apparent either to you and other reviewers what the text should say. Thanks, Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 23 01:26:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44D2C8BE for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 01:26:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bryan-lists@shatow.net) Received: from secure.xzibition.com (secure.xzibition.com [173.160.118.92]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E182F8FC0C for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 01:26:23 +0000 (UTC) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=shatow.net; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:subject:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=sweb; b=QMqQWw1LmZMzSvqGo1S ACNWzYvyiWtCKI0ec5qUUv+sQElm2rEUSaJgXWuZj44vdH1kwn4UVNW+faPYASXh lUhHyq5cMyNtTXZd6LjAcElPTI9k6CpYLvbOLif4dltuHP9TYB9DeDR5VEJ5CaSN QIJ2O+kXr7HzOrbTmby/jKW4= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=shatow.net; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:subject:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=sweb; bh=/78yoOxWy5YJG7edMACfVlFy9 alemdoipyUGOHQg528=; b=ecCGRr9PzM4ihI+hq4MK+AGittE5gY9SLALgkhI33 F/P7GESmAj4IOoDsGbgrcOd2YDiWlY+ZMAXjXU8+qx+P60By7PYRJg9wqHRWdqLq V0f+jyMn0XOw6OiFUbILCDtSmihQArdEcSBs4UcwdxZfYvXzroCUDRGrYNbL7NXk 7k= Received: (qmail 67638 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2012 19:26:22 -0600 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.10.0.115?) (bryan@shatow.net@10.10.0.115) by sweb.xzibition.com with ESMTPA; 22 Nov 2012 19:26:22 -0600 Message-ID: <50AED0B9.7040108@shatow.net> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 19:26:17 -0600 From: Bryan Drewery User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: kldstat / kernel linker deadlock X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 01:26:24 -0000 On 8.3-RELEASE I've hit a deadlock with kldstat. I can't provide much information as procstat(1) locks up and I have already rebooted the servers due to it breaking quite a bit in my setup. > # kldstat > Id Refs Address Size Name > load: 0.91 cmd: kldstat 9936 [kernel linker] 51.21r 0.00u 0.00s 0% 768k > ^C > load: 0.72 cmd: kldstat 9936 [kernel linker] 225.23r 0.00u 0.00s 0% 704k > load: 0.72 cmd: kldstat 9936 [kernel linker] 225.39r 0.00u 0.00s 0% 704k > load: 0.42 cmd: kldstat 9936 [kernel linker] 1837.24r 0.00u 0.00s 0% 692k Short list of affected processes (74 in all): > root 3685 0.0 0.0 3264 700 ?? D 7:27PM 0:00.00 kldstat > root 67061 0.0 0.0 3380 892 ?? D 7:27PM 0:00.00 /usr/bin/netstat -nrf inet > root 5579 0.0 0.0 3380 892 ?? D 7:37PM 0:00.00 /usr/bin/netstat -nrf inet > root 6393 0.0 0.0 3264 704 ?? D 7:32PM 0:00.00 /sbin/kldstat -v > root 99635 0.0 0.1 3324 1244 13 D+ 7:52PM 0:00.01 procstat -ka [... 69 more removed ...] I had 2 minutely cron entries that were running kldstat(1)/netstat(1). Guessing the kldstat(1) and netstat(1) deadlocked initially. -- Regards, Bryan Drewery bdrewery@freenode/EFNet From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 23 17:47:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD353763; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:47:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BDD88FC12; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:47:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qANHldnn001427; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:47:39 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id qANHlcrn001424; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:47:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:47:38 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Devin Teske Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:47:39 +0100 (CET) Cc: Benjamin Kaduk , Eitan Adler , Chris Rees , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:47:53 -0000 > I do buy the argument that B is simpler than A, despite the fact that B requires more commands than A. B can be thought-of as > simpler because I only have to memorize three things to get a kernel: (1) start with a config file, (2) run config with said file > (3) follow the instructions that config gives me. Meanwhile, in comparison, A requires the memorization of different and arguably > less accessible information. there is one other argument - why removing something that is fine? and once again - i do keep only /usr/src/sys on most machines. and update it WHEN i decide to my own way. Is doing something your own way instead of "the only right" (which actually results in more load to FreeBSD.org servers) bad now? i always though unix is flexible and there is no "the only right" way. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 23 17:48:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DACF9848; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:48:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FC1A8FC08; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:48:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qANHm8JO001433; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:48:08 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id qANHm8VQ001430; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:48:08 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:48:08 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Garrett Cooper Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:48:08 +0100 (CET) Cc: Eitan Adler , Benjamin Kaduk , FreeBSD Hackers X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:48:12 -0000 > > For new/non-advanced users, this shouldn't necessarily be exposed > except as an implementation detail and a historical artifact; more why? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 23 18:19:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD979E33 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:19:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F3FF8FC0C for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:19:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lb0-f182.google.com with SMTP id go10so6349177lbb.13 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 10:19:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:cc :content-type; bh=LHaCmnB//+LN5Y4anMgBIxbPzVD4v8I9Cofqz2GHPTw=; b=hwOSEzB1Rsqgd1xPKEHJQ1LT0d0I3gUdcg8o0ykfX1STE13pxjny2YgfmgJTgtxp2K JjdfvVkbX+zuo4IklqD6OTPQAsN5K7E9TOMi8lOMhEI/Nb4GtSP+v2crtoSW9zvFhz+j v61IPV8RzKJRttHSxOevs+yQm0kmhTXFsh7oY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:cc :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=LHaCmnB//+LN5Y4anMgBIxbPzVD4v8I9Cofqz2GHPTw=; b=ldv6dd3FebPBvI/87VYvsqTzelWEm4UvzWghnKpeIeIxAeOBMO6MvJvURxVovQGq51 Me7LjTxytzyQzMH1Qw214z6lXBUNyNIMyv96F/vwOkPrxo7yZVd07VYAvni9Dj0ye2Yj rBB8gDSRElGigycgy2vOp8gnI4ZVsQVVk1GkILkWOhEOJoqfqDXia2hj6xbgVsSz8HhK 4dEZEpyRM1MDgw+3gXyQlzkjh/qeKhBKdDt+qZqFHIoQoNgu+dPCVgBAx6iLzrZXRzu3 Hk9G+kxI0V5UxItN8fDp+to+iPwZMC/g1q/EBYskyxBOCj6NzBzg7EwjjcgW/pPRIUqz 5+VQ== Received: by 10.152.105.33 with SMTP id gj1mt4985445lab.49.1353694744790; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 10:19:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.154.168 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 10:18:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Eitan Adler Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 13:18:34 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlJOUS5qkK2LTz+mwYq70DImAVuzsHDFfXkJ5oa35p40wEglus6BYnnE06OMTSJViFRN5qK Cc: Garrett Cooper , FreeBSD Hackers , Benjamin Kaduk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:19:06 -0000 On 23 November 2012 12:48, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> >> For new/non-advanced users, this shouldn't necessarily be exposed >> except as an implementation detail and a historical artifact; more Lets kill this thread now. I have the answers to - should we keep the documentation and - what are the man differences between the old and new ways. and it is starting to turn into a flame/bikeshed. Thanks for the information. I'll restore the documentation with updated information shortly. -- Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 23 20:25:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D69C9647; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 20:25:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 877318FC15; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 20:25:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from JRE-MBP-2.local (c-50-143-149-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [50.143.149.146]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qANKP3ef094312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 23 Nov 2012 12:25:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <50AFDB9A.2020302@freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 12:24:58 -0800 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garrett Cooper Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Eitan Adler , Benjamin Kaduk , FreeBSD Hackers X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 20:25:06 -0000 On 11/22/12 1:17 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 5:58 PM, Eitan Adler wrote: >> I've been working on removing obsolete information various documents. >> While going through older articles I noticed a few references to the >> "old style" kernel configuration involving running config(1) manually. >> >> Is there any value in keeping this documented as an alternative to >> "make buildkernel" or should it be treated as an implementation detail? > For new/non-advanced users, this shouldn't necessarily be exposed > except as an implementation detail and a historical artifact; more > directions, not less serve to confuse the masses -> see git as a > perfect example of this with all of its workflows. > I think the question that should be asked first is: who's your > target audience (remember, hackers are generally the more and not less > advanced target audience)? Once this question can be answered, I think > it would become apparent either to you and other reviewers what the > text should say. The canonical way to build a kernel on its own is using config(8). The Makefile acts as a convenient wrapper for this when you want to make a kernel as part of a build, or to redo a kernel that was a part of a build. nearly all kernel developers I know use the config method, and it's widly known and documented. it is however a good way to get mismatching kernel and userland but that's not what we are discussing. Julian > Thanks, > Garrett > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 23 23:00:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FD573D3 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 23:00:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising+freebsd@daemonic.se) Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se (mail.lysator.liu.se [IPv6:2001:6b0:17:f0a0::3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66CD38FC13 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 23:00:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id E493140002 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 00:00:49 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix, from userid 1004) id D34FE40004; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 00:00:49 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on bernadotte.lysator.liu.se X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=disabled version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 Received: from mx.daemonic.se (h-45-105.a163.priv.bahnhof.se [94.254.45.105]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7996A40002 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 00:00:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from mailscanner.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:0:1::6]) by mx.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3Y7Y0K0rY1z8hVn for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 00:00:49 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daemonic.se Received: from mx.daemonic.se ([10.1.0.3]) (using TLS with cipher CAMELLIA256-SHA) by mailscanner.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [10.1.0.6]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTPS id uY8s9gSBy85Y for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 00:00:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.daemonic.se (mail.daemonic.se [10.1.0.4]) by mx.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3Y7Y0G66nkz8hVm for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 00:00:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from tifa.daemonic.se (tifa.daemonic.se [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:1::6]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3Y7Y0G5c7Pz9Ctj for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 00:00:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from tifa.daemonic.se (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by tifa.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE62228F2 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 00:00:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <50B0001C.6050202@daemonic.se> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 00:00:44 +0100 From: Niclas Zeising User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Questions about USB, uhid, ukbd and quirks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 23:00:52 -0000 Hi! I have a couple of questions about USB. I recently bought a new USB keyboard, a Logitech K120. When attaching this to a FreeBSD system, however, it is detected as a hid device (attaching to uhid) rather than a keyboard (attaching to ukbd). The keyboard works fine, but I'm just curious as to why it doesn't use ukbd. The output from usbconfig for this keyboard is: ugen2.3: at usbus2, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=LOW (1.5Mbps) pwr=ON bLength = 0x0012 bDescriptorType = 0x0001 bcdUSB = 0x0110 bDeviceClass = 0x0000 bDeviceSubClass = 0x0000 bDeviceProtocol = 0x0000 bMaxPacketSize0 = 0x0008 idVendor = 0x046d idProduct = 0xc31c bcdDevice = 0x6400 iManufacturer = 0x0001 iProduct = 0x0002 iSerialNumber = 0x0000 bNumConfigurations = 0x0001 If I add the qurik UQ_HID_IGNORE, it attaches with ukbd and works fine. I don't know if this is appropriate to add to the general quriks though. I have another keyboard, also Logitech, but older. This one attaches to ukbd, but the manufacture string says LITEON. Is this string fetched from the device, or is it somehow stored in the usb drivers? The output from usbconfig for this keyboard is: ugen4.2: at usbus4, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=LOW (1.5Mbps) pwr=ON bLength = 0x0012 bDescriptorType = 0x0001 bcdUSB = 0x0110 bDeviceClass = 0x0000 bDeviceSubClass = 0x0000 bDeviceProtocol = 0x0000 bMaxPacketSize0 = 0x0008 idVendor = 0x046d idProduct = 0xc312 bcdDevice = 0x0101 iManufacturer = 0x0001 iProduct = 0x0002 iSerialNumber = 0x0000 bNumConfigurations = 0x0001 These issues probably have natural explanations, but it's making me slightly confused, so I hope someone can shed some light on them. Regards! -- Niclas From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 23 23:22:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DC328C4 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 23:22:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from mailout-us.mail.com (mailout-us.gmx.com [74.208.5.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5A1738FC13 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2012 23:22:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 19654 invoked by uid 0); 23 Nov 2012 23:16:05 -0000 Received: from 67.206.187.214 by rms-us002 with HTTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:16:02 -0500 From: "Dieter BSD" Message-ID: <20121123231603.14360@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: old style kernel configuration To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Authenticated: #74169980 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GMX-UID: 5GbCcPhk3zOlNR3dAHAhqwB+IGRvbwAF X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 23:22:47 -0000 Julian writes: > it is however a good way to get mismatching kernel and userland > but that's not what we are discussing. The method recommended on http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/kernelconfig-building.html "# make buildkernel KERNCONF=MYKERNEL" is also a good way to get mismatching kernel and userland. Or any other way of building just the kernel rather than everything. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 24 11:12:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F717AD8 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 11:12:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe05.c2i.net [212.247.154.130]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE0C98FC13 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 11:12:20 +0000 (UTC) X-T2-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, BAYES_50 Received: from [176.74.213.204] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop015.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe05.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPA id 344564638; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:12:12 +0100 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Questions about USB, uhid, ukbd and quirks Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:13:49 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/9.1-PRERELEASE; KDE/4.8.4; amd64; ; ) References: <50B0001C.6050202@daemonic.se> In-Reply-To: <50B0001C.6050202@daemonic.se> X-Face: 'mmZ:T{)),Oru^0c+/}w'`gU1$ubmG?lp!=R4Wy\ELYo2)@'UZ24N@d2+AyewRX}mAm; Yp |U[@, _z/([?1bCfM{_"B<.J>mICJCHAzzGHI{y7{%JVz%R~yJHIji`y>Y}k1C4TfysrsUI -%GU9V5]iUZF&nRn9mJ'?&>O MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary="Boundary-00=_tvKsQH4+EHyEBct" Message-Id: <201211241213.49794.hselasky@c2i.net> Cc: Niclas Zeising X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 11:12:21 -0000 --Boundary-00=_tvKsQH4+EHyEBct Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Saturday 24 November 2012 00:00:44 Niclas Zeising wrote: > Hi! > I have a couple of questions about USB. > I recently bought a new USB keyboard, a Logitech K120. When attaching > this to a FreeBSD system, however, it is detected as a hid device > (attaching to uhid) rather than a keyboard (attaching to ukbd). The > keyboard works fine, but I'm just curious as to why it doesn't use ukbd. > The output from usbconfig for this keyboard is: > Hi, It seems the UHID driver needs to be synced with UMS and UKBD regarding the detection logic. Can you try the attached patch and report back. --HPS --Boundary-00=_tvKsQH4+EHyEBct Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="iso-8859-1"; name="input.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="input.diff" === sys/dev/usb/input/uhid.c ================================================================== --- sys/dev/usb/input/uhid.c (revision 243384) +++ sys/dev/usb/input/uhid.c (local) @@ -670,7 +670,11 @@ uhid_probe(device_t dev) { struct usb_attach_arg *uaa = device_get_ivars(dev); + void *d_ptr; int error; + uint16_t d_len; + int is_keyboard; + int is_mouse; DPRINTFN(11, "\n"); @@ -684,18 +688,44 @@ if (usb_test_quirk(uaa, UQ_HID_IGNORE)) return (ENXIO); + is_keyboard = (uaa->info.bInterfaceClass == UICLASS_HID) && + (uaa->info.bInterfaceSubClass == UISUBCLASS_BOOT) && + (uaa->info.bInterfaceProtocol == UIPROTO_BOOT_KEYBOARD); + + is_mouse = (uaa->info.bInterfaceClass == UICLASS_HID) && + (uaa->info.bInterfaceSubClass == UISUBCLASS_BOOT) && + (uaa->info.bInterfaceProtocol == UIPROTO_MOUSE); + + if (is_keyboard == 0 && is_mouse == 0) { + /* search a bit more before we conclude */ + + error = usbd_req_get_hid_desc(uaa->device, NULL, + &d_ptr, &d_len, M_TEMP, uaa->info.bIfaceIndex); + + if (error == 0) { + if (hid_is_collection(d_ptr, d_len, + HID_USAGE2(HUP_GENERIC_DESKTOP, HUG_MOUSE))) { + /* most likely a mouse */ + is_mouse = 1; + } + if (hid_is_collection(d_ptr, d_len, + HID_USAGE2(HUP_GENERIC_DESKTOP, HUG_KEYBOARD))) { + /* most likely a keyboard */ + is_keyboard = 1; + } + free(d_ptr, M_TEMP); + } + } + /* * Don't attach to mouse and keyboard devices, hence then no * "nomatch" event is generated and then ums and ukbd won't * attach properly when loaded. */ - if ((uaa->info.bInterfaceClass == UICLASS_HID) && - (uaa->info.bInterfaceSubClass == UISUBCLASS_BOOT) && - (((uaa->info.bInterfaceProtocol == UIPROTO_BOOT_KEYBOARD) && - !usb_test_quirk(uaa, UQ_KBD_IGNORE)) || - ((uaa->info.bInterfaceProtocol == UIPROTO_MOUSE) && - !usb_test_quirk(uaa, UQ_UMS_IGNORE)))) + if (is_keyboard != 0 && usb_test_quirk(uaa, UQ_KBD_IGNORE) == 0) return (ENXIO); + if (is_mouse != 0 && usb_test_quirk(uaa, UQ_UMS_IGNORE) == 0) + return (ENXIO); return (BUS_PROBE_GENERIC); } --Boundary-00=_tvKsQH4+EHyEBct-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 24 12:15:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 779A1A06 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:15:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe02.c2i.net [212.247.154.34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB7F88FC15 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:15:25 +0000 (UTC) X-T2-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, BAYES_50 Received: from [176.74.213.204] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop015.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe02.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPA id 349241070; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:15:23 +0100 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Questions about USB, uhid, ukbd and quirks Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:17:00 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/9.1-PRERELEASE; KDE/4.8.4; amd64; ; ) References: <50B0001C.6050202@daemonic.se> <201211241213.49794.hselasky@c2i.net> In-Reply-To: <201211241213.49794.hselasky@c2i.net> X-Face: 'mmZ:T{)),Oru^0c+/}w'`gU1$ubmG?lp!=R4Wy\ELYo2)@'UZ24N@d2+AyewRX}mAm; Yp |U[@, _z/([?1bCfM{_"B<.J>mICJCHAzzGHI{y7{%JVz%R~yJHIji`y>Y}k1C4TfysrsUI -%GU9V5]iUZF&nRn9mJ'?&>O MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201211241317.00568.hselasky@c2i.net> Cc: Niclas Zeising X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:15:26 -0000 On Saturday 24 November 2012 12:13:49 Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On Saturday 24 November 2012 00:00:44 Niclas Zeising wrote: > > Hi! > > I have a couple of questions about USB. > > I recently bought a new USB keyboard, a Logitech K120. When attaching > > this to a FreeBSD system, however, it is detected as a hid device > > (attaching to uhid) rather than a keyboard (attaching to ukbd). The > > keyboard works fine, but I'm just curious as to why it doesn't use ukbd. > > > The output from usbconfig for this keyboard is: > Hi, > > It seems the UHID driver needs to be synced with UMS and UKBD regarding the > detection logic. Can you try the attached patch and report back. > > --HPS One more thing to check: /etc/devd/usb.conf Is perhaps auto-loading uhid before ukbd, and that might also be part of the issue. --HPS From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 24 12:23:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4598B8D for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:23:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising+freebsd@daemonic.se) Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se (mail.lysator.liu.se [IPv6:2001:6b0:17:f0a0::3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 156E38FC13 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:23:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id B110E40009 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:23:38 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix, from userid 1004) id A664840007; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:23:38 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on bernadotte.lysator.liu.se X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=disabled version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 Received: from mx.daemonic.se (h-45-105.a163.priv.bahnhof.se [94.254.45.105]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 37ACD40002; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:23:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from mailscanner.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:0:1::6]) by mx.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3Y7tpd58K3z8hVn; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:23:37 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daemonic.se Received: from mx.daemonic.se ([IPv6:2001:470:dca9:0:1::3]) (using TLS with cipher CAMELLIA256-SHA) by mailscanner.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:0:1::6]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTPS id Ua5w_e7Y8Od9; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:23:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.daemonic.se (mail.daemonic.se [10.1.0.4]) by mx.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3Y7tpb2NsTz8hVm; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:23:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from tifa.daemonic.se (tifa.daemonic.se [10.32.0.6]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3Y7tpb1qMQz9Ctj; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:23:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from tifa.daemonic.se (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by tifa.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B8E3228F2; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:23:34 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <50B0BC44.2090609@daemonic.se> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:23:32 +0100 From: Niclas Zeising User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: Questions about USB, uhid, ukbd and quirks References: <50B0001C.6050202@daemonic.se> <201211241213.49794.hselasky@c2i.net> <201211241317.00568.hselasky@c2i.net> In-Reply-To: <201211241317.00568.hselasky@c2i.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:23:40 -0000 On 11/24/12 13:17, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On Saturday 24 November 2012 12:13:49 Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >> On Saturday 24 November 2012 00:00:44 Niclas Zeising wrote: >>> Hi! >>> I have a couple of questions about USB. >>> I recently bought a new USB keyboard, a Logitech K120. When attaching >>> this to a FreeBSD system, however, it is detected as a hid device >>> (attaching to uhid) rather than a keyboard (attaching to ukbd). The >>> keyboard works fine, but I'm just curious as to why it doesn't use ukbd. >> >>> The output from usbconfig for this keyboard is: >> Hi, >> >> It seems the UHID driver needs to be synced with UMS and UKBD regarding the >> detection logic. Can you try the attached patch and report back. >> >> --HPS > > One more thing to check: > > /etc/devd/usb.conf > > Is perhaps auto-loading uhid before ukbd, and that might also be part of the > issue. > Hi! Having ukbd in the kernel, and not uhid, makes uhid load as a module during boot and attach to the keyboard, even with your patch. I'm recompiling the kernel now with uhid as part of the kernel to see if it makes a difference. I'm not too confortable hacking /etc/devd/usb.conf, but if you can point me in the right direction I'll have a go at it. Regards! -- Niclas From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 24 12:54:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36A3868F for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:54:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising+freebsd@daemonic.se) Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se (mail.lysator.liu.se [IPv6:2001:6b0:17:f0a0::3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 892088FC08 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:54:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id D256940002 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:54:48 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix, from userid 1004) id C7FD540004; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:54:48 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on bernadotte.lysator.liu.se X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=disabled version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 Received: from mx.daemonic.se (h-45-105.a163.priv.bahnhof.se [94.254.45.105]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 02A2340002; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:54:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from mailscanner.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:0:1::6]) by mx.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3Y7vVb5txgz8hVn; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:54:47 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daemonic.se Received: from mx.daemonic.se ([10.1.0.3]) (using TLS with cipher CAMELLIA256-SHA) by mailscanner.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [10.1.0.6]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTPS id SRIVb12Ibok2; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:54:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.daemonic.se (mail.daemonic.se [10.1.0.4]) by mx.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3Y7vVY5Q1Yz8hVm; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:54:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from tifa.daemonic.se (tifa.daemonic.se [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:1::6]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3Y7vVY56drz9Ctj; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:54:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from tifa.daemonic.se (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by tifa.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B23E22AFA; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:54:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <50B0C395.8060809@daemonic.se> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:54:45 +0100 From: Niclas Zeising User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: Questions about USB, uhid, ukbd and quirks References: <50B0001C.6050202@daemonic.se> <201211241213.49794.hselasky@c2i.net> <201211241317.00568.hselasky@c2i.net> <50B0BC44.2090609@daemonic.se> In-Reply-To: <50B0BC44.2090609@daemonic.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:54:50 -0000 On 11/24/12 13:23, Niclas Zeising wrote: > On 11/24/12 13:17, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >> On Saturday 24 November 2012 12:13:49 Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >>> On Saturday 24 November 2012 00:00:44 Niclas Zeising wrote: >>>> Hi! >>>> I have a couple of questions about USB. >>>> I recently bought a new USB keyboard, a Logitech K120. When attaching >>>> this to a FreeBSD system, however, it is detected as a hid device >>>> (attaching to uhid) rather than a keyboard (attaching to ukbd). The >>>> keyboard works fine, but I'm just curious as to why it doesn't use >>>> ukbd. >>> >>>> The output from usbconfig for this keyboard is: >>> Hi, >>> >>> It seems the UHID driver needs to be synced with UMS and UKBD >>> regarding the >>> detection logic. Can you try the attached patch and report back. >>> >>> --HPS >> >> One more thing to check: >> >> /etc/devd/usb.conf >> >> Is perhaps auto-loading uhid before ukbd, and that might also be part >> of the >> issue. >> > > Hi! > Having ukbd in the kernel, and not uhid, makes uhid load as a module > during boot and attach to the keyboard, even with your patch. I'm > recompiling the kernel now with uhid as part of the kernel to see if it > makes a difference. I'm not too confortable hacking /etc/devd/usb.conf, > but if you can point me in the right direction I'll have a go at it. > Regards! Having uhid in the kernel did not make a difference, it attached to the keyboard (or rather, the keyboard attached to the uhid driver, I guess). Regards! -- Niclas From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 24 13:17:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20A44AF2 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:17:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe05.c2i.net [212.247.154.130]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A52E8FC14 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:17:54 +0000 (UTC) X-T2-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED Received: from [176.74.213.204] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop015.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe05.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPA id 344591881; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:17:52 +0100 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Questions about USB, uhid, ukbd and quirks Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:19:29 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/9.1-PRERELEASE; KDE/4.8.4; amd64; ; ) References: <50B0001C.6050202@daemonic.se> <50B0BC44.2090609@daemonic.se> <50B0C395.8060809@daemonic.se> In-Reply-To: <50B0C395.8060809@daemonic.se> X-Face: 'mmZ:T{)),Oru^0c+/}w'`gU1$ubmG?lp!=R4Wy\ELYo2)@'UZ24N@d2+AyewRX}mAm; Yp |U[@, _z/([?1bCfM{_"B<.J>mICJCHAzzGHI{y7{%JVz%R~yJHIji`y>Y}k1C4TfysrsUI -%GU9V5]iUZF&nRn9mJ'?&>O MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201211241419.29050.hselasky@c2i.net> Cc: Niclas Zeising X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:17:56 -0000 On Saturday 24 November 2012 13:54:45 Niclas Zeising wrote: > On 11/24/12 13:23, Niclas Zeising wrote: > > On 11/24/12 13:17, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > >> On Saturday 24 November 2012 12:13:49 Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > >>> On Saturday 24 November 2012 00:00:44 Niclas Zeising wrote: > >>>> Hi! > >>>> I have a couple of questions about USB. > >>>> I recently bought a new USB keyboard, a Logitech K120. When attaching > >>>> this to a FreeBSD system, however, it is detected as a hid device > >>>> (attaching to uhid) rather than a keyboard (attaching to ukbd). The > >>>> keyboard works fine, but I'm just curious as to why it doesn't use > >>>> ukbd. > >>> > >>>> The output from usbconfig for this keyboard is: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> It seems the UHID driver needs to be synced with UMS and UKBD > >>> regarding the > >>> detection logic. Can you try the attached patch and report back. > >>> > >>> --HPS > >> > >> One more thing to check: > >> > >> /etc/devd/usb.conf > >> > >> Is perhaps auto-loading uhid before ukbd, and that might also be part > >> of the > >> issue. > > > > Hi! > > Having ukbd in the kernel, and not uhid, makes uhid load as a module > > during boot and attach to the keyboard, even with your patch. I'm > > recompiling the kernel now with uhid as part of the kernel to see if it > > makes a difference. I'm not too confortable hacking /etc/devd/usb.conf, > > but if you can point me in the right direction I'll have a go at it. > > Regards! > > Having uhid in the kernel did not make a difference, it attached to the > keyboard (or rather, the keyboard attached to the uhid driver, I guess). > Regards! Could you dump the configuration descriptor of your device using usbconfig? usbconfig -d X.Y dump_curr_config_desc --HPS From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 24 13:24:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 564AEF91 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:24:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising+freebsd@daemonic.se) Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se (mail.lysator.liu.se [IPv6:2001:6b0:17:f0a0::3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87D478FC12 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:24:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id A721B40004 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:24:12 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 9903A40007; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:24:12 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on bernadotte.lysator.liu.se X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=disabled version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 Received: from mx.daemonic.se (h-45-105.a163.priv.bahnhof.se [94.254.45.105]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 94EB240004; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:24:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from mailscanner.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:0:1::6]) by mx.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3Y7w8V1wlSz8hVn; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:24:10 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daemonic.se Received: from mx.daemonic.se ([IPv6:2001:470:dca9:0:1::3]) (using TLS with cipher CAMELLIA256-SHA) by mailscanner.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:0:1::6]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTPS id bVAqYbpXmHSG; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:24:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.daemonic.se (mail.daemonic.se [10.1.0.4]) by mx.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3Y7w8R5BgSz8hVm; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:24:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from tifa.daemonic.se (tifa.daemonic.se [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:1::6]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3Y7w8R49Gnz9Ctj; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:24:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from tifa.daemonic.se (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by tifa.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4607022AFA; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:24:07 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <50B0CA77.90501@daemonic.se> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:24:07 +0100 From: Niclas Zeising User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: Questions about USB, uhid, ukbd and quirks References: <50B0001C.6050202@daemonic.se> <50B0BC44.2090609@daemonic.se> <50B0C395.8060809@daemonic.se> <201211241419.29050.hselasky@c2i.net> In-Reply-To: <201211241419.29050.hselasky@c2i.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060407040706040803090501" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:24:17 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060407040706040803090501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 11/24/12 14:19, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On Saturday 24 November 2012 13:54:45 Niclas Zeising wrote: >> On 11/24/12 13:23, Niclas Zeising wrote: >>> On 11/24/12 13:17, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >>>> On Saturday 24 November 2012 12:13:49 Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >>>>> On Saturday 24 November 2012 00:00:44 Niclas Zeising wrote: >>>>>> Hi! >>>>>> I have a couple of questions about USB. >>>>>> I recently bought a new USB keyboard, a Logitech K120. When attaching >>>>>> this to a FreeBSD system, however, it is detected as a hid device >>>>>> (attaching to uhid) rather than a keyboard (attaching to ukbd). The >>>>>> keyboard works fine, but I'm just curious as to why it doesn't use >>>>>> ukbd. >>>>> >>>>>> The output from usbconfig for this keyboard is: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> It seems the UHID driver needs to be synced with UMS and UKBD >>>>> regarding the >>>>> detection logic. Can you try the attached patch and report back. >>>>> >>>>> --HPS >>>> >>>> One more thing to check: >>>> >>>> /etc/devd/usb.conf >>>> >>>> Is perhaps auto-loading uhid before ukbd, and that might also be part >>>> of the >>>> issue. >>> >>> Hi! >>> Having ukbd in the kernel, and not uhid, makes uhid load as a module >>> during boot and attach to the keyboard, even with your patch. I'm >>> recompiling the kernel now with uhid as part of the kernel to see if it >>> makes a difference. I'm not too confortable hacking /etc/devd/usb.conf, >>> but if you can point me in the right direction I'll have a go at it. >>> Regards! >> >> Having uhid in the kernel did not make a difference, it attached to the >> keyboard (or rather, the keyboard attached to the uhid driver, I guess). >> Regards! > > Could you dump the configuration descriptor of your device using usbconfig? > > usbconfig -d X.Y dump_curr_config_desc > > --HPS Attached patch contains the dump. From my reading of the USB spec, it seems that this keyboard has two interfaces, one that detects as a keyboard, and might be the boot device, and one that's just a regular hid. I might also be very wrong in this. :) I have a dump from a keyboard that only attaches to ukbd, if you need something to compare to. That keyboard, however, believes it's a liteon keyboard, rather than a logitech keyboard. That, however, is probably Logitech's fault. Thank you for helping out! Regards! -- Niclas --------------060407040706040803090501 Content-Type: text/plain; name="usbkeyboard.dump" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="usbkeyboard.dump" ugen2.3: at usbus2, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=LOW (1.5Mbps) pwr=ON Configuration index 0 bLength = 0x0009 bDescriptorType = 0x0002 wTotalLength = 0x003b bNumInterfaces = 0x0002 bConfigurationValue = 0x0001 iConfiguration = 0x0003 bmAttributes = 0x00a0 bMaxPower = 0x002d Interface 0 bLength = 0x0009 bDescriptorType = 0x0004 bInterfaceNumber = 0x0000 bAlternateSetting = 0x0000 bNumEndpoints = 0x0001 bInterfaceClass = 0x0003 bInterfaceSubClass = 0x0001 bInterfaceProtocol = 0x0001 iInterface = 0x0002 Additional Descriptor bLength = 0x09 bDescriptorType = 0x21 bDescriptorSubType = 0x10 RAW dump: 0x00 | 0x09, 0x21, 0x10, 0x01, 0x00, 0x01, 0x22, 0x41, 0x08 | 0x00 Endpoint 0 bLength = 0x0007 bDescriptorType = 0x0005 bEndpointAddress = 0x0081 bmAttributes = 0x0003 wMaxPacketSize = 0x0008 bInterval = 0x000a bRefresh = 0x0000 bSynchAddress = 0x0000 Interface 1 bLength = 0x0009 bDescriptorType = 0x0004 bInterfaceNumber = 0x0001 bAlternateSetting = 0x0000 bNumEndpoints = 0x0001 bInterfaceClass = 0x0003 bInterfaceSubClass = 0x0000 bInterfaceProtocol = 0x0000 iInterface = 0x0002 Additional Descriptor bLength = 0x09 bDescriptorType = 0x21 bDescriptorSubType = 0x10 RAW dump: 0x00 | 0x09, 0x21, 0x10, 0x01, 0x00, 0x01, 0x22, 0x9f, 0x08 | 0x00 Endpoint 0 bLength = 0x0007 bDescriptorType = 0x0005 bEndpointAddress = 0x0082 bmAttributes = 0x0003 wMaxPacketSize = 0x0004 bInterval = 0x00ff bRefresh = 0x0000 bSynchAddress = 0x0000 --------------060407040706040803090501-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 24 13:36:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E07E34C for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:36:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe08.c2i.net [212.247.154.226]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C08EB8FC14 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:36:51 +0000 (UTC) X-T2-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED Received: from [176.74.213.204] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop015.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe08.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPA id 349811904; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:36:43 +0100 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Questions about USB, uhid, ukbd and quirks Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:38:20 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/9.1-PRERELEASE; KDE/4.8.4; amd64; ; ) References: <50B0001C.6050202@daemonic.se> <201211241419.29050.hselasky@c2i.net> <50B0CA77.90501@daemonic.se> In-Reply-To: <50B0CA77.90501@daemonic.se> X-Face: 'mmZ:T{)),Oru^0c+/}w'`gU1$ubmG?lp!=R4Wy\ELYo2)@'UZ24N@d2+AyewRX}mAm; Yp |U[@, _z/([?1bCfM{_"B<.J>mICJCHAzzGHI{y7{%JVz%R~yJHIji`y>Y}k1C4TfysrsUI -%GU9V5]iUZF&nRn9mJ'?&>O MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201211241438.20357.hselasky@c2i.net> Cc: Niclas Zeising X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:36:52 -0000 On Saturday 24 November 2012 14:24:07 Niclas Zeising wrote: > On 11/24/12 14:19, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > On Saturday 24 November 2012 13:54:45 Niclas Zeising wrote: > >> On 11/24/12 13:23, Niclas Zeising wrote: > >>> On 11/24/12 13:17, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > >>>> On Saturday 24 November 2012 12:13:49 Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > >>>>> On Saturday 24 November 2012 00:00:44 Niclas Zeising wrote: > >>>>>> Hi! > >>>>>> I have a couple of questions about USB. > >>>>>> I recently bought a new USB keyboard, a Logitech K120. When > >>>>>> attaching this to a FreeBSD system, however, it is detected as a > >>>>>> hid device (attaching to uhid) rather than a keyboard (attaching to > >>>>>> ukbd). The keyboard works fine, but I'm just curious as to why it > >>>>>> doesn't use ukbd. > >>>>> > >>>>>> The output from usbconfig for this keyboard is: > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> > >>>>> It seems the UHID driver needs to be synced with UMS and UKBD > >>>>> regarding the > >>>>> detection logic. Can you try the attached patch and report back. > >>>>> > >>>>> --HPS > >>>> > >>>> One more thing to check: > >>>> > >>>> /etc/devd/usb.conf > >>>> > >>>> Is perhaps auto-loading uhid before ukbd, and that might also be part > >>>> of the > >>>> issue. > >>> > >>> Hi! > >>> Having ukbd in the kernel, and not uhid, makes uhid load as a module > >>> during boot and attach to the keyboard, even with your patch. I'm > >>> recompiling the kernel now with uhid as part of the kernel to see if it > >>> makes a difference. I'm not too confortable hacking /etc/devd/usb.conf, > >>> but if you can point me in the right direction I'll have a go at it. > >>> Regards! > >> > >> Having uhid in the kernel did not make a difference, it attached to the > >> keyboard (or rather, the keyboard attached to the uhid driver, I guess). > >> Regards! > > > > Could you dump the configuration descriptor of your device using > > usbconfig? > > > > usbconfig -d X.Y dump_curr_config_desc > > > > --HPS > > Attached patch contains the dump. From my reading of the USB spec, it > seems that this keyboard has two interfaces, one that detects as a > keyboard, and might be the boot device, and one that's just a regular > hid. I might also be very wrong in this. :) > I have a dump from a keyboard that only attaches to ukbd, if you need > something to compare to. That keyboard, however, believes it's a liteon > keyboard, rather than a logitech keyboard. That, however, is probably > Logitech's fault. > Thank you for helping out! > Regards! Hi, You should have one of each, one ukbd, and one uhid. If you run "usbconfig show_ifdrv" at what interface is the uhid and ukbd attached. Make sure both uhid and ukbd is loaded. Please add a printout, but is_keyboard should be non-zero, before and after my patch. So uhid is not attaching to the wrong interface, so to speak. --HPS From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 24 14:02:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24C2887C for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:02:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising+freebsd@daemonic.se) Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se (mail.lysator.liu.se [IPv6:2001:6b0:17:f0a0::3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 644578FC14 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:02:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD03E40002 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 15:02:01 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix, from userid 1004) id A299E40004; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 15:02:01 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on bernadotte.lysator.liu.se X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=disabled version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 Received: from mx.daemonic.se (h-45-105.a163.priv.bahnhof.se [94.254.45.105]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1F83D40002; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 15:02:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from mailscanner.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:0:1::6]) by mx.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3Y7wzY6S6rz8hVn; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 15:01:29 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daemonic.se Received: from mx.daemonic.se ([10.1.0.3]) (using TLS with cipher CAMELLIA256-SHA) by mailscanner.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [10.1.0.6]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTPS id OpriLiykl7vc; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 15:01:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.daemonic.se (mail.daemonic.se [10.1.0.4]) by mx.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3Y7wzW2mRCz8hVm; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 15:01:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from tifa.daemonic.se (tifa.daemonic.se [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:1::6]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3Y7wzW20cdz9Ctj; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 15:01:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from tifa.daemonic.se (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by tifa.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EF2822AFA; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 15:01:27 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <50B0D336.60702@daemonic.se> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 15:01:26 +0100 From: Niclas Zeising User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: Questions about USB, uhid, ukbd and quirks References: <50B0001C.6050202@daemonic.se> <201211241419.29050.hselasky@c2i.net> <50B0CA77.90501@daemonic.se> <201211241438.20357.hselasky@c2i.net> In-Reply-To: <201211241438.20357.hselasky@c2i.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020400080803070302060101" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:02:03 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020400080803070302060101 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 11/24/12 14:38, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On Saturday 24 November 2012 14:24:07 Niclas Zeising wrote: >> On 11/24/12 14:19, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >>> On Saturday 24 November 2012 13:54:45 Niclas Zeising wrote: >>>> On 11/24/12 13:23, Niclas Zeising wrote: >>>>> On 11/24/12 13:17, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >>>>>> On Saturday 24 November 2012 12:13:49 Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >>>>>>> On Saturday 24 November 2012 00:00:44 Niclas Zeising wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi! >>>>>>>> I have a couple of questions about USB. >>>>>>>> I recently bought a new USB keyboard, a Logitech K120. When >>>>>>>> attaching this to a FreeBSD system, however, it is detected as a >>>>>>>> hid device (attaching to uhid) rather than a keyboard (attaching to >>>>>>>> ukbd). The keyboard works fine, but I'm just curious as to why it >>>>>>>> doesn't use ukbd. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The output from usbconfig for this keyboard is: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It seems the UHID driver needs to be synced with UMS and UKBD >>>>>>> regarding the >>>>>>> detection logic. Can you try the attached patch and report back. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --HPS >>>>>> >>>>>> One more thing to check: >>>>>> >>>>>> /etc/devd/usb.conf >>>>>> >>>>>> Is perhaps auto-loading uhid before ukbd, and that might also be part >>>>>> of the >>>>>> issue. >>>>> >>>>> Hi! >>>>> Having ukbd in the kernel, and not uhid, makes uhid load as a module >>>>> during boot and attach to the keyboard, even with your patch. I'm >>>>> recompiling the kernel now with uhid as part of the kernel to see if it >>>>> makes a difference. I'm not too confortable hacking /etc/devd/usb.conf, >>>>> but if you can point me in the right direction I'll have a go at it. >>>>> Regards! >>>> >>>> Having uhid in the kernel did not make a difference, it attached to the >>>> keyboard (or rather, the keyboard attached to the uhid driver, I guess). >>>> Regards! >>> >>> Could you dump the configuration descriptor of your device using >>> usbconfig? >>> >>> usbconfig -d X.Y dump_curr_config_desc >>> >>> --HPS >> >> Attached patch contains the dump. From my reading of the USB spec, it >> seems that this keyboard has two interfaces, one that detects as a >> keyboard, and might be the boot device, and one that's just a regular >> hid. I might also be very wrong in this. :) >> I have a dump from a keyboard that only attaches to ukbd, if you need >> something to compare to. That keyboard, however, believes it's a liteon >> keyboard, rather than a logitech keyboard. That, however, is probably >> Logitech's fault. >> Thank you for helping out! >> Regards! > > Hi, > > You should have one of each, one ukbd, and one uhid. > > If you run "usbconfig show_ifdrv" at what interface is the uhid and ukbd > attached. > > Make sure both uhid and ukbd is loaded. > > Please add a printout, but is_keyboard should be non-zero, before and after my > patch. So uhid is not attaching to the wrong interface, so to speak. Running usbconfig show_ifdrv shows uhid and ukbd both attached to the keyboard, both with and without your patch, and the output looks the same, see attached file. I can't find the is_keyboard flag you're talking about however, but the keyboard works. I guess I'm mostly surprised that the keyboard attaches as a HID as well, so it can be that I'm making a lot of noise about a non-issue. Thanks for helping out though! Regards! -- Niclas --------------020400080803070302060101 Content-Type: text/plain; name="usb.ifdrv.patch.dump" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="usb.ifdrv.patch.dump" ugen2.3: at usbus2, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=LOW (1.5Mbps) pwr=ON ugen2.3.0: ukbd0: ugen2.3.1: uhid0: --------------020400080803070302060101-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 24 18:08:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AB6AD97 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 18:08:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from trafdev@mail.ru) Received: from smtp5.mail.ru (smtp5.mail.ru [94.100.176.132]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B924C8FC08 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 18:08:26 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mail.ru; s=mail; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Subject:To:MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID; bh=JRgbPj84R1mRgwi5Sv7NZ7TeVILRjeus+60q+k7/V9o=; b=i8HQ/oWOMBXsa4zUqc61Y+iaJ0EfFp3s3+qBFXnA9j+mu1oZGTDklchwpNhk6dm8yOxWompQylJYmFImY3X3ZyEnNYInaW0Yt4upQrvjep21W6VB2GGEn2tHP1sAQItx; Received: from [76.126.253.89] (port=40090 helo=[192.168.1.117]) by smtp5.mail.ru with esmtpa (envelope-from ) id 1TcK9K-00072i-Ni for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 22:08:19 +0400 Message-ID: <50B10D10.80209@mail.ru> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 10:08:16 -0800 From: trafdev User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121110 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: postfix mail server infected ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 18:08:27 -0000 Hi. I've a dedicated stand-alone FreeBSD server: > uname -a FreeBSD trafd-website-freebsd 9.0-RELEASE-p3 FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE-p3 #0: Tue Jun 12 02:52:29 UTC 2012 root@amd64-builder.daemonology.net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 Server has one external interface (re0) with IP 206.239.112.241 and postfix service installed on 25 port. Yesterday I've noticed huge amount of emails sending out: Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtpd[37230]: connect from f116.sd.com[206.239.112.241] Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/qmgr[40324]: 73F7D1365D: from=, size=1211, nrcpt=10 (queue active) Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/error[37366]: 75ECA134F2: to=, relay=none, delay=25715, delays=25715/0.02/0/0.12, dsn=4.7.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mta7.am0.yahoodns.net[66.94.236.34] refused to talk to me: 421 4.7.0 [TS01] Messages from 206.239.112.241 temporarily deferred due to user complaints - 4.16.55.1; see http://postmaster.yahoo.com/421-ts01.html) Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/error[37368]: 794A911711: to=, relay=none, delay=29716, delays=29716/0.05/0/0.05, dsn=4.7.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mta7.am0.yahoodns.net[66.94.236.34] refused to talk to me: 421 4.7.0 [TS01] Messages from 206.239.112.241 temporarily deferred due to user complaints - 4.16.55.1; see http://postmaster.yahoo.com/421-ts01.html) Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtp[36699]: E559512F49: to=, relay=vip-us-br-mx.terra.com[208.84.244.133]:25, delay=26077, delays=26075/1/0.59/0.31, dsn=4.7.1, status=deferred (host vip-us-br-mx.terra.com[208.84.244.133] said: 450 4.7.1 You've exceeded your sending limit to this domain. (in reply to end of DATA command)) Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/error[37370]: 7C45D18E5D: to=, relay=none, delay=6984, delays=6984/0.02/0/0.04, dsn=4.7.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mta7.am0.yahoodns.net[66.94.236.34] refused to talk to me: 421 4.7.0 [TS01] Messages from 206.239.112.241 temporarily deferred due to user complaints - 4.16.55.1; see http://postmaster.yahoo.com/421-ts01.html) Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/qmgr[40324]: 73E8118E53: from=, size=1143, nrcpt=10 (queue active) Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtpd[37153]: 93E1020413: client=f116.sd.com[206.239.112.241] Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/error[37367]: 74A511A5BF: to=, relay=none, delay=5587, delays=5587/0/0/0.18, dsn=4.7.0, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended: host mta7.am0.yahoodns.net[66.94.236.34] refused to talk to me: 421 4.7.0 [TS01] Messages from 206.239.112.241 temporarily deferred due to user complaints - 4.16.55.1; see http://postmaster.yahoo.com/421-ts01.html) Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtp[36698]: E7898134D0: to=, relay=vip-us-br-mx.terra.com[208.84.244.133]:25, conn_use=4, delay=25728, delays=25726/1.1/0.06/0.4, dsn=4.7.1, status=deferred (host vip-us-br-mx.terra.com[208.84.244.133] said: 450 4.7.1 You've exceeded your sending limit to this domain. (in reply to end of DATA command)) Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtp[36226]: 7BE421F989: to=, relay=mx3.bol.com.br[200.147.36.13]:25, delay=339, delays=339/0/0.49/0.24, dsn=4.7.1, status=deferred (host mx3.bol.com.br[200.147.36.13] said: 450 4.7.1 : Recipient address rejected: MX-BOL-04 - Too many messages, try again later. (in reply to RCPT TO command)) Where f116.sd.com[206.239.112.241] is an IP and host assigned for external interface (re0). Due to "permit_mynetworks" policy enabled in postfix conf mail was sending out without authentication. However all externally connected clients were rejected which is proper and expected behavior: Nov 24 19:31:04 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtpd[65618]: connect from a2-starfury4.uol.com.br[200.147.33.227] Nov 24 19:31:05 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtpd[65618]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from a2-starfury4.uol.com.br[200.147.33.227]: 550 5.1.1 : Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table; from=<> to= proto=ESMTP helo= Nov 24 19:31:05 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtpd[65618]: disconnect from a2-starfury4.uol.com.br[200.147.33.227] Then, I've tried: $cmd 001 deny all from any to me dst-port 25 in via re0 $cmd 002 deny all from any to me dst-port 25 out via re0 and cleaned local mail queue with postsuper -d ALL This didn't changed anything - server continued to send huge amount of emails. However restrictions on lo0: $cmd 001 deny all from any to me dst-port 25 in via lo0 $cmd 002 deny all from any to me dst-port 25 out via lo0 did the trick - emailing had stopped. So by fact - problem solved, but the real reason wasn't not found. I've launched clamav and f-prot scans - nothing suspicious found. The main question I have - how it's possible on stand-alone dedicated server - who and how is connecting on behalf of it's own ext ip and uses local interface to send emails? Is this possible to do from outside, or server was infected from inside? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 24 18:25:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0653F9A for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 18:25:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yerenkow@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oa0-f54.google.com (mail-oa0-f54.google.com [209.85.219.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C5A8FC17 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 18:25:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n9so12513661oag.13 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 10:25:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=8xyC1jtmLxa7ha1/jzkn7oDe1nIeKH+X2fA+FzIH3vs=; b=RVoLL+GNdG45zfqXU4QTOdnix45qUHGVE8dxcyDBHAyyvVDw0w2KZJSHVGI3K7OsLi qs5+VvjXWFIn1y/qp877ezBP95SryPtQGjv7tM9t1VkMHOuze86RfmKsZUQgJED5b+6I ObwwoYmKZuRMYA476wH85wAmaIwZtp1F5+xVJgpzEKTe6vTW0cBPXrN2VUUzJ5Zca7wK MLPnHO6OSvJ7/oJVuejQgkVs/g8LUh+Lc+KBu6swGOIFk2NyF59VOIKFN1IoRlMLzJ5o BMppkSQyU1OocpCl8FE9eAqzqBjz2ktQdc2YEsQdOR6h1kgfvCSp3Gtgp+fQgZZ7Dhq7 whdA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.172.229 with SMTP id bf5mr5532034oec.81.1353781530406; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 10:25:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.132.50 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 10:25:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.132.50 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 10:25:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <50B10D10.80209@mail.ru> References: <50B10D10.80209@mail.ru> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 20:25:30 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: postfix mail server infected ? From: Alexander Yerenkow To: trafdev Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 18:25:31 -0000 Would be better if you include pkg info / pkg_info output, as well `who`, and try to monitor and record via netstat all programs trying to connect to 25 port. Also, what portaudit telling you? Regards, Alexander Yerenkow 24.11.2012 20:08 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 "trafdev" =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC: > Hi. I've a dedicated stand-alone FreeBSD server: > > uname -a > FreeBSD trafd-website-freebsd 9.0-RELEASE-p3 FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE-p3 #0: > Tue Jun 12 02:52:29 UTC 2012 root@amd64-builder.**daemonology.net: > /usr/obj/usr/**src/sys/GENERIC amd64 > > Server has one external interface (re0) with IP 206.239.112.241 and > postfix service installed on 25 port. > > Yesterday I've noticed huge amount of emails sending out: > > Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtpd[37230]: connect from > f116.sd.com[206.239.112.241] > Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/qmgr[40324]: 73F7D1365D: > from=3D, size=3D1211, nrcpt=3D10 (queue active) > Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/error[37366]: 75ECA134F2: > to=3D, relay=3Dnone, delay=3D25715, > delays=3D25715/0.02/0/0.12, dsn=3D4.7.0, status=3Ddeferred (delivery temp= orarily > suspended: host mta7.am0.yahoodns.net[66.94.**236.34] refused to talk to > me: 421 4.7.0 [TS01] Messages from 206.239.112.241 temporarily deferred d= ue > to user complaints - 4.16.55.1; see http://postmaster.yahoo.com/** > 421-ts01.html ) > Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/error[37368]: 794A911711: > to=3D, relay=3Dnone, delay=3D29716, > delays=3D29716/0.05/0/0.05, dsn=3D4.7.0, status=3Ddeferred (delivery temp= orarily > suspended: host mta7.am0.yahoodns.net[66.94.**236.34] refused to talk to > me: 421 4.7.0 [TS01] Messages from 206.239.112.241 temporarily deferred d= ue > to user complaints - 4.16.55.1; see http://postmaster.yahoo.com/** > 421-ts01.html ) > Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtp[36699]: E559512F49: to= =3D< > luziarodrigues757@terra.**com.br >, relay= =3D > vip-us-br-mx.terra.com[**208.84.244.133]:25, delay=3D26077, > delays=3D26075/1/0.59/0.31, dsn=3D4.7.1, status=3Ddeferred (host > vip-us-br-mx.terra.com[208.84.**244.133] said: 450 4.7.1 You've exceeded > your sending limit to this domain. (in reply to end of DATA command)) > Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/error[37370]: 7C45D18E5D: > to=3D, relay=3Dnone, delay=3D6984, > delays=3D6984/0.02/0/0.04, dsn=3D4.7.0, status=3Ddeferred (delivery tempo= rarily > suspended: host mta7.am0.yahoodns.net[66.94.**236.34] refused to talk to > me: 421 4.7.0 [TS01] Messages from 206.239.112.241 temporarily deferred d= ue > to user complaints - 4.16.55.1; see http://postmaster.yahoo.com/** > 421-ts01.html ) > Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/qmgr[40324]: 73E8118E53: > from=3D, size=3D1143, nrcpt=3D10 (queue active) > Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtpd[37153]: 93E1020413: > client=3Df116.sd.com[206.239.**112.241] > Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/error[37367]: 74A511A5BF: > to=3D, relay=3Dnone, delay=3D5587, > delays=3D5587/0/0/0.18, dsn=3D4.7.0, status=3Ddeferred (delivery temporar= ily > suspended: host mta7.am0.yahoodns.net[66.94.**236.34] refused to talk to > me: 421 4.7.0 [TS01] Messages from 206.239.112.241 temporarily deferred d= ue > to user complaints - 4.16.55.1; see http://postmaster.yahoo.com/** > 421-ts01.html ) > Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtp[36698]: E7898134D0: to= =3D< > gvfg@terra.com.br>, relay=3Dvip-us-br-mx.terra.com[**208.84.244.133]:25, > conn_use=3D4, delay=3D25728, delays=3D25726/1.1/0.06/0.4, dsn=3D4.7.1, > status=3Ddeferred (host vip-us-br-mx.terra.com[208.84.**244.133] said: 45= 0 > 4.7.1 You've exceeded your sending limit to this domain. (in reply to end > of DATA command)) > Nov 24 00:00:37 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtp[36226]: 7BE421F989: to= =3D< > elc.moura@bol.com.br>, relay=3Dmx3.bol.com.br[200.147.**36.13]:25, > delay=3D339, delays=3D339/0/0.49/0.24, dsn=3D4.7.1, status=3Ddeferred (ho= st > mx3.bol.com.br[200.147.36.13] said: 450 4.7.1 : > Recipient address rejected: MX-BOL-04 - Too many messages, try again late= r. > (in reply to RCPT TO command)) > > Where f116.sd.com[206.239.112.241] is an IP and host assigned for > external interface (re0). > > Due to "permit_mynetworks" policy enabled in postfix conf mail was sendin= g > out without authentication. However all externally connected clients were > rejected which is proper and expected behavior: > > Nov 24 19:31:04 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtpd[65618]: connect from > a2-starfury4.uol.com.br[200.**147.33.227] > Nov 24 19:31:05 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtpd[65618]: NOQUEUE: > reject: RCPT from a2-starfury4.uol.com.br[200.**147.33.227]: 550 5.1.1 < > pehw@f116.sd.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual > mailbox table; from=3D<> to=3D proto=3DESMTP helo=3D< > mx.uol.com.br> > Nov 24 19:31:05 trafd-website-freebsd postfix/smtpd[65618]: disconnect > from a2-starfury4.uol.com.br[200.**147.33.227] > > Then, I've tried: > > $cmd 001 deny all from any to me dst-port 25 in via re0 > $cmd 002 deny all from any to me dst-port 25 out via re0 > > and cleaned local mail queue with > postsuper -d ALL > > This didn't changed anything - server continued to send huge amount of > emails. > > However restrictions on lo0: > $cmd 001 deny all from any to me dst-port 25 in via lo0 > $cmd 002 deny all from any to me dst-port 25 out via lo0 > > did the trick - emailing had stopped. So by fact - problem solved, but th= e > real reason wasn't not found. > > I've launched clamav and f-prot scans - nothing suspicious found. > > The main question I have - how it's possible on stand-alone dedicated > server - who and how is connecting on behalf of it's own ext ip and uses > local interface to send emails? Is this possible to do from outside, or > server was infected from inside? > > ______________________________**_________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/**mailman/listinfo/freebsd-**hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@** > freebsd.org " > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 24 18:56:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A1CFC62 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 18:56:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kientzle@freebsd.org) Received: from monday.kientzle.com (99-115-135-74.uvs.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [99.115.135.74]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD6E8FC12 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 18:56:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from root@localhost) by monday.kientzle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) id qAOIusxI027853; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 18:56:54 GMT (envelope-from kientzle@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.2.143] (CiscoE3000 [192.168.1.65]) by kientzle.com with SMTP id ivj68xsp6dwvqt3m9rird9jikn; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 18:56:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kientzle@freebsd.org) Subject: Re: FreeBSD on RaspberryPi Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 From: Tim Kientzle In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 10:56:52 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <31C904E6-F230-4187-AE32-F9A7B1A7C38E@freebsd.org> <4A5E03E5-3295-4FD4-9A06-7D1C4E9E0C12@freebsd.org> To: Alexander Yerenkow X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) Cc: FreeBSD Hackers X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 18:56:55 -0000 On Nov 7, 2012, at 8:09 AM, Alexander Yerenkow wrote: > > Such experiments was tried by me and others in August; I got = framebuffer worked in rca/hdmi; =85 On Nov 8, 2012, at 11:12 PM, Alexander Yerenkow wrote: > It was plain current with plain RPIB kernel config, and for graphic = you should uncomment there partition about sysconsole; serial then = disabled;=20 > Also, if you want ethernet - it's ue device, which also worked, but = produced hangs for me in past (Hans IIRC already fixed.this). > I'll have some time this weekend, feel free to contact me by gtalk or = else, I will play around with my rpi with both serials and vide modes. Alexander, I tried uncommenting the 'sc' entries in the RPI-B kernel config that's in -CURRENT right now. When I do this, I see the rainbow video on HDMI and nothing on the serial console. Can you try this and tell me what I'm missing? Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 24 19:13:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B64619F; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 19:13:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yerenkow@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oa0-f54.google.com (mail-oa0-f54.google.com [209.85.219.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40A708FC12; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 19:13:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n9so12535983oag.13 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 11:13:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=nezQsxh+AGOevLa4XbwlCKY66L3Y7Bknwuew2vM3fhM=; b=XV5giUrNKvdksNbLVTWeoqZKZEZFoVfVPB3/3vq3lsuzIgEXSSvnzoSP9czTrPEbvL 2Qv1O/4cX0iavKw1ld3KVjeBbMJRwgGjSVKS5yAqiASG5fUNFwQznM2m909haT2JG8cM b9M6wkqwBgouxrJCnhU7ymCpHGLVsCQbqhUP/jm5TaLoENkfmDixr1gNL2O1DtHOEsZl AAyRHUMvVWkG/Vgzohu4HF2pIYRdvhMK3l1NDIzmC8wPASis3Zt1hRG1DuzmYmgHpWz8 /tGcBx+phdfL9JhglxeEskG1f5ivzg6OD1aD4yV8rkZ8WkNFLYehPzhalsTre2lzgSO5 HNuw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.43.104 with SMTP id v8mr5571254obl.98.1353784433721; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 11:13:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.132.50 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Nov 2012 11:13:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <31C904E6-F230-4187-AE32-F9A7B1A7C38E@freebsd.org> <4A5E03E5-3295-4FD4-9A06-7D1C4E9E0C12@freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 21:13:53 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD on RaspberryPi From: Alexander Yerenkow To: Tim Kientzle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 19:13:54 -0000 2012/11/24 Tim Kientzle > On Nov 7, 2012, at 8:09 AM, Alexander Yerenkow wrote: > > > > Such experiments was tried by me and others in August; I got > framebuffer worked in rca/hdmi; =85 > > On Nov 8, 2012, at 11:12 PM, Alexander Yerenkow wrote: > > > It was plain current with plain RPIB kernel config, and for graphic you > should uncomment there partition about sysconsole; serial then disabled; > > Also, if you want ethernet - it's ue device, which also worked, but > produced hangs for me in past (Hans IIRC already fixed.this). > > I'll have some time this weekend, feel free to contact me by gtalk or > else, I will play around with my rpi with both serials and vide modes. > > Alexander, > > I tried uncommenting the 'sc' entries in the RPI-B kernel > config that's in -CURRENT right now. > All entries, right? And how do you booting, via usb-flash, or via SD card? I'll build now CURRENT, will look if I got same. > > When I do this, I see the rainbow video on HDMI and > nothing on the serial console. > > Can you try this and tell me what I'm missing? > > Tim > > --=20 Regards, Alexander Yerenkow