From owner-freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 13 11:07:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72FDB106566B for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:07:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE8E8FC19 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:07:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7DB7BNL007143 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:07:11 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q7DB7AnO007141 for freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:07:10 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:07:10 GMT Message-Id: <201208131107.q7DB7AnO007141@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: gnats set sender to owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Current problem reports assigned to freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-jail@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about FreeBSD jail\(8\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:07:11 -0000 Note: to view an individual PR, use: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=(number). The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o kern/169751 jail [jail] reading routing information does not work in ja o bin/167911 jail new jail(8) problem with removal, ifconfg -alias and k o kern/159918 jail [jail] inter-jail communication failure o docs/156853 jail [patch] Update docs: jail(8) security issues with worl o kern/156111 jail [jail] procstat -b not supported in jail o misc/155765 jail [patch] `buildworld' does not honors WITHOUT_JAIL o conf/154246 jail [jail] [patch] Bad symlink created if devfs mount poin o conf/149050 jail [jail] rcorder ``nojail'' too coarse for Jail+VNET s conf/142972 jail [jail] [patch] Support JAILv2 and vnet in rc.d/jail o conf/141317 jail [patch] uncorrect jail stop in /etc/rc.d/jail o kern/133265 jail [jail] is there a solution how to run nfs client in ja o kern/119842 jail [smbfs] [jail] "Bad address" with smbfs inside a jail o bin/99566 jail [jail] [patch] fstat(1) according to specified jid o bin/32828 jail [jail] w(1) incorrectly handles stale utmp slots with 14 problems total. From owner-freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 16 01:42:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01763106566B for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 01:42:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kuriyama@FreeBSD.org) Received: from scarlet.imgsrc.co.jp (scarlet.imgsrc.co.jp [202.235.195.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A502C8FC0A for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 01:42:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by scarlet.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E5BA67885 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 10:19:35 +0900 (JST) X-Virus-Scanned: IMG SRC scanner at mail.imgsrc.co.jp (scarlet) Received: from scarlet.imgsrc.co.jp ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (scarlet.imgsrc.co.jp [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ol1uJCsfidFc for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 10:19:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from nightblue.s2factory.co.jp (corsica.s2factory.co.jp [122.220.15.114]) by scarlet.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E29467876 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 10:19:35 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 10:19:35 +0900 Message-ID: <7mlihf1vmg.wl%kuriyama@s2factory.co.jp> From: Jun Kuriyama To: freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/23.4 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [patch] etc/rc.d/jail: allow extra parameters for each jails X-BeenThere: freebsd-jail@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about FreeBSD jail\(8\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 01:42:46 -0000 Hi, Here is a patch which I'm using for years in my production environment. I usually changes parameters documented in jail(8) for each jails, but current rc.d/jail has no feature to pass extra parameters at starting jails. I hope this patch will not prevent jamie's recent/next work for rc.d/jail. I'll commit this if there is no objection. Index: etc/defaults/rc.conf =================================================================== --- etc/defaults/rc.conf (revision 239314) +++ etc/defaults/rc.conf (working copy) @@ -705,6 +705,7 @@ #jail_example_mount_enable="NO" # mount/umount jail's fs #jail_example_fstab="" # fstab(5) for mount/umount #jail_example_flags="-l -U root" # flags for jail(8) +#jail_example_parameters="allow.raw_sockets=1" # extra parameters for this jail ############################################################## ### Define source_rc_confs, the mechanism used by /etc/rc.* ## Index: etc/rc.d/jail =================================================================== --- etc/rc.d/jail (revision 239314) +++ etc/rc.d/jail (working copy) @@ -115,6 +115,8 @@ [ -z "${_flags}" ] && _flags="-l -U root" eval _consolelog=\"\${jail_${_j}_consolelog:-${jail_consolelog}}\" [ -z "${_consolelog}" ] && _consolelog="/var/log/jail_${_j}_console.log" + eval _parameters=\"\${jail_${_j}_parameters:-${jail_parameters}}\" + [ -z "${_parameters}" ] && _parameters="" eval _fib=\"\${jail_${_j}_fib:-${jail_fib}}\" # Debugging aid @@ -193,6 +195,7 @@ debug "$_j flags: $_flags" debug "$_j consolelog: $_consolelog" + debug "$_j parameters: $_parameters" if [ -z "${_hostname}" ]; then err 3 "$name: No hostname has been defined for ${_j}" @@ -484,9 +487,19 @@ esac # Append address to list of addresses for the jail command. - case "${_addrl}" in - "") _addrl="${_addr}" ;; - *) _addrl="${_addrl},${_addr}" ;; + case "${_type}" in + inet) + case "${_addrl}" in + "") _addrl="${_addr}" ;; + *) _addrl="${_addrl},${_addr}" ;; + esac + ;; + inet6) + case "${_addr6l}" in + "") _addr6l="${_addr}" ;; + *) _addr6l="${_addr6l},${_addr}" ;; + esac + ;; esac # Configure interface alias if requested by a given interface @@ -576,6 +589,7 @@ continue; fi _addrl="" + _addr6l="" jail_ips "add" if [ -n "${_fib}" ]; then _setfib="setfib -F '${_fib}'" @@ -641,8 +655,8 @@ i=$((i + 1)) done - eval ${_setfib} jail -n ${_jail} ${_flags} -i ${_rootdir} ${_hostname} \ - \"${_addrl}\" ${_exec_start} > ${_tmp_jail} 2>&1 \ + eval ${_setfib} jail -n ${_jail} ${_flags} -i -c path=${_rootdir} host.hostname=${_hostname} \ + ip4.addr=\"${_addrl}\" ip6.addr=\"${_addr6l}\" ${_parameters} command=${_exec_start} > ${_tmp_jail} 2>&1 \ // FreeBSD Project // S2 Factory, Inc. From owner-freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 16 03:14:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D64106564A; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 03:14:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 959C814DEFC; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 03:14:41 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <502C65A0.2060606@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:14:40 -1000 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120714 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jun Kuriyama References: <7mlihf1vmg.wl%kuriyama@s2factory.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <7mlihf1vmg.wl%kuriyama@s2factory.co.jp> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [patch] etc/rc.d/jail: allow extra parameters for each jails X-BeenThere: freebsd-jail@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about FreeBSD jail\(8\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 03:14:42 -0000 On 08/15/2012 03:19 PM, Jun Kuriyama wrote: > > Hi, > > Here is a patch which I'm using for years in my production > environment. > > I usually changes parameters documented in jail(8) for each jails, but > current rc.d/jail has no feature to pass extra parameters at starting > jails. > > I hope this patch will not prevent jamie's recent/next work for > rc.d/jail. I'll commit this if there is no objection. > > > Index: etc/defaults/rc.conf > =================================================================== > --- etc/defaults/rc.conf (revision 239314) > +++ etc/defaults/rc.conf (working copy) > @@ -705,6 +705,7 @@ > #jail_example_mount_enable="NO" # mount/umount jail's fs > #jail_example_fstab="" # fstab(5) for mount/umount > #jail_example_flags="-l -U root" # flags for jail(8) > +#jail_example_parameters="allow.raw_sockets=1" # extra parameters for this jail Why not just use _flags for this? From owner-freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 16 03:24:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-jail@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF232106566C; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 03:24:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kuriyama.bsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F758FC0C; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 03:24:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so4003895obb.13 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 20:24:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=HBnJLcILbPF4xSl08IJlGNxVE33TBcwWvtoXfECCu4k=; b=Zh0XXBEnyl9tfoLKSNgfK8qgsmKdrhyT9joGFa5nWuhkTgzD3Ut1fq9tUAyBBhaMwm AkquvJqr/x2RFYoPmzaWwdVIK6zrgUx+XBNtQeK1ERWIpIpiVYA7QZtAm1U5fhgvfZPO 48Y7o0V3zfI9VspU3gMqFKR0KDv3El5TKSNIMvA334GAjK4RZCZtlcgshqsn3zF3NRji 5CxxRMP85Y2kT5UcpjCf0VnUYYuaPaxDrqEeCPKtF04SJF6Gdtf38SKVZMsXZRkbNFl7 4fWPHt4C6eM7/y1/zu0v8l+esQR/YBBrMuG+RVc3GpwoJNB4KhrcU5LwmMdmkL4eoMOj rwnA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.11.104 with SMTP id p8mr3640293oeb.133.1345087494697; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 20:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Sender: kuriyama.bsd@gmail.com Received: by 10.76.121.41 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 20:24:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <502C65A0.2060606@FreeBSD.org> References: <7mlihf1vmg.wl%kuriyama@s2factory.co.jp> <502C65A0.2060606@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 12:24:54 +0900 X-Google-Sender-Auth: q1uJw6ypAu_EA7Wago6fcu01vhM Message-ID: From: Jun Kuriyama To: Doug Barton Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-jail@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [patch] etc/rc.d/jail: allow extra parameters for each jails X-BeenThere: freebsd-jail@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about FreeBSD jail\(8\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 03:24:55 -0000 2012/8/16 Doug Barton : > On 08/15/2012 03:19 PM, Jun Kuriyama wrote: >> #jail_example_flags="-l -U root" # flags for jail(8) >> +#jail_example_parameters="allow.raw_sockets=1" # extra parameters for this jail > > Why not just use _flags for this? Current implementation of rc.d/jail uses old command line syntax which cannot pass parameters to jail(8), so main modifications of my patch is changing this to use new command line style to use with "-c" flag and named parameters. Then, you are right, these named parameters can be passed via _flags after my patch. I just want separate command line option flags and named parameters. I don't have strong argument to add _parameters variables. I just think adding _parameters may be easy to configure/understand. -- Jun Kuriyama // FreeBSD Project // S2 Factory, Inc. From owner-freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 16 03:32:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-jail@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48762106566B; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 03:32:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E876A14DC7F; Thu, 16 Aug 2012 03:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <502C69D9.8040803@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:32:41 -1000 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120714 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jun Kuriyama References: <7mlihf1vmg.wl%kuriyama@s2factory.co.jp> <502C65A0.2060606@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-jail@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [patch] etc/rc.d/jail: allow extra parameters for each jails X-BeenThere: freebsd-jail@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about FreeBSD jail\(8\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 03:32:44 -0000 On 08/15/2012 05:24 PM, Jun Kuriyama wrote: > 2012/8/16 Doug Barton : >> On 08/15/2012 03:19 PM, Jun Kuriyama wrote: >>> #jail_example_flags="-l -U root" # flags for jail(8) >>> +#jail_example_parameters="allow.raw_sockets=1" # extra parameters for this jail >> >> Why not just use _flags for this? > > Current implementation of rc.d/jail uses old command line syntax which > cannot pass parameters to jail(8), so main modifications of my patch > is changing this to use new command line style to use with "-c" flag > and named parameters. > > Then, you are right, these named parameters can be passed via _flags > after my patch. I just want separate command line option flags and > named parameters. I don't have strong argument to add _parameters > variables. I just think adding _parameters may be easy to > configure/understand. Thank you for the explanation. FWIW, this sounds reasonable to me. Doug From owner-freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 17 10:28:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 582C7106566C; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 10:28:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net) Received: from mx1.sbone.de (bird.sbone.de [46.4.1.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06D648FC0C; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 10:28:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.sbone.de (mail.sbone.de [IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:587]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.sbone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49C8F25D3891; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 10:28:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from content-filter.sbone.de (content-filter.sbone.de [IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:2742]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.sbone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59EF0BE8580; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 10:28:27 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sbone.de Received: from mail.sbone.de ([IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:587]) by content-filter.sbone.de (content-filter.sbone.de [fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:2742]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b1uyjLzlTSHU; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 10:28:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nv.sbone.de (nv.sbone.de [IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:138]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.sbone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 16822BE827C; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 10:28:25 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 10:28:25 +0000 (UTC) From: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" To: Jun Kuriyama In-Reply-To: <7mlihf1vmg.wl%kuriyama@s2factory.co.jp> Message-ID: References: <7mlihf1vmg.wl%kuriyama@s2factory.co.jp> X-OpenPGP-Key-Id: 0x14003F198FEFA3E77207EE8D2B58B8F83CCF1842 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [patch] etc/rc.d/jail: allow extra parameters for each jails X-BeenThere: freebsd-jail@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about FreeBSD jail\(8\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 10:28:35 -0000 On Thu, 16 Aug 2012, Jun Kuriyama wrote: > > Hi, > > Here is a patch which I'm using for years in my production > environment. > > I usually changes parameters documented in jail(8) for each jails, but > current rc.d/jail has no feature to pass extra parameters at starting > jails. > > I hope this patch will not prevent jamie's recent/next work for > rc.d/jail. I'll commit this if there is no objection. Why not just use his work? -- Bjoern A. Zeeb You have to have visions! Stop bit received. Insert coin for new address family. From owner-freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 17 18:59:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91453106566C; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:59:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@FreeBSD.org) Received: from m2.gritton.org (gritton.org [199.192.164.235]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AEA88FC15; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:59:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from guppy.corp.verio.net (fw.oremut02.us.wh.verio.net [198.65.168.24]) (authenticated bits=0) by m2.gritton.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7HIlKSt025558; Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:47:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jamie@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <502E91B2.6030306@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:47:14 -0600 From: Jamie Gritton User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20120126 Thunderbird/9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" References: <7mlihf1vmg.wl%kuriyama@s2factory.co.jp> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-jail@FreeBSD.org, Jun Kuriyama Subject: Re: [patch] etc/rc.d/jail: allow extra parameters for each jails X-BeenThere: freebsd-jail@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about FreeBSD jail\(8\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:59:15 -0000 On 08/17/12 04:28, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: > On Thu, 16 Aug 2012, Jun Kuriyama wrote: > >> >> Hi, >> >> Here is a patch which I'm using for years in my production >> environment. >> >> I usually changes parameters documented in jail(8) for each jails, but >> current rc.d/jail has no feature to pass extra parameters at starting >> jails. >> >> I hope this patch will not prevent jamie's recent/next work for >> rc.d/jail. I'll commit this if there is no objection. > > Why not just use his work? Probably because it's a lot more "next" than "recent". Soon ... real soon now. - Jamie