From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 03:39:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB1A81065680 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 03:39:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org (nightmare.dreamchaser.org [12.32.44.142]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D1C88FC14 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 03:39:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from breakaway.dreamchaser.org (breakaway.dreamchaser.org. [12.32.36.73]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id q5H3dgQQ052390; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 21:39:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Message-ID: <4FDD517E.3060206@dreamchaser.org> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 21:39:42 -0600 From: Gary Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120609 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <4FD1098E.7020203@dreamchaser.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (nightmare.dreamchaser.org [12.32.36.65]); Sat, 16 Jun 2012 21:39:43 -0600 (MDT) Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: dumping file system subtree (/var) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd@dreamchaser.org List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 03:39:49 -0000 On 06/16/12 10:19, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> When I originally set up my SSD, the stuff I was following indicated there was no need to put anythng on a separate filesystem. I'm now trying to build a backup system on a usb drive and I want a separate /var and /tmp. >> >> I had originally set the nodump flag on /tmp and /var, so my snapshot is empty for those. >> >> I don't think there's any reason to preserve /tmp, but is there any good way to copy /var from the running system on the SSD to another filesystem (and still preserve everything, including flags)? My impression is both mksnap_ffs and dump should only be used on a complete filesystem, not a subtree. >> >> Or do I need to unset the nodump flag on /var, make a snapshot of /, take a dump :-), and then split the /var out upon restore? >> >> And would it be wise to repartition the SSD to put /var and /tmp on their own partitions? >> > i really have no idea why you just don't dump it all? restore have -i option that allow you to partially restore files from a dump. > > I have SSD, single partition and i use dump to backup it to external hard disk. > > > alternatively - use tar. What I was trying to achieve, which I haven't done yet, was a smallish dump of the "core system". By that I mean system + ports, without distfiles, etc. Then a separate dump of user data, which is considerably larger. At this point I am thinking I should do this: make clean distclean ports to remove temporary stuff set /usr/home NODUMP dump /, /var, and /usr unset /usr/home NODUMP dump /usr/home From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 10:45:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44496106566C for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 10:45:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) Received: from zoom.lafn.org (zoom.lafn.org [108.92.93.123]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 002498FC16 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 10:45:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (pool-96-229-186-65.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [96.229.186.65]) (authenticated bits=0) by zoom.lafn.org (8.14.3/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5HAjO0Y095424 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 03:45:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) From: Doug Hardie Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 03:45:24 -0700 Message-Id: To: FreeBSD Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97 at zoom.lafn.org X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: Problem with spamlogd X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 10:45:32 -0000 I am using spamd on several systems and started encountering a problem = awhile ago with FreeBSD 7.2 servers, but let it go since I am in the = process of upgrading the servers. However, I now am encountering the = same issue on FreeBSD 9.0 with spamlogd. It never reads pflog0. pflogd = reads the entries just fine. I set up syslog to log all the spamlogd = messages and when spamlogd is started it gives: spamlogd: Listening on pflog0 for all interfaces.=20 lsof shows that it is connected to bpf0 as is pflogd. However, pflogd = shows an offset into the file that appears to be the end of the file. = spamlogd shows an offset of 0. It is periodically reading the file as = shown by ktrace but always getting back a 0 size return. spamd itself = is working just fine. However, the expiration times are not being = updated so white entries are timed out way too often. spamlogd used to = update them. The rc.conf entries are: obspamd_enable=3D"YES" obspamd_flags=3D"-G 2:1:1728" obspamd_setup_flags=3D"" obspamd_grey=3DYES obspamlogd_enable=3D"YES" obspamlogd_flags=3D"-W 1728" These were established a few years ago and worked up till short while = ago. I don't recall any changes I made to anything, but=85 Looking through the spamlogd source it appears to be building a filter = for the pcap routines with: "ip and port 25 and action pass and tcp[13]&0x12=3D0x2" Using that filter on pflog yields no output. I believe the pass item = requires there to be some logging of the pass actions and those are not = appearing in the pflog or in the pfctl counts for those rules. I = suspect that is the problem. The pf.conf is: (mail server is on this = machine) ext_if=3D"em0" table persist file "/etc/blackhole" table persist table persist table persist file "/etc/mail/whitelist" no rdr on { lo0, lo1 } from any to any no rdr on { lo0, lo1 } from any to any MAILHOSTS =3D "{zool.lafn.org 10.0.1.10}" rdr pass log on $ext_if inet proto tcp from to port = smtp -> 127.0.0.1 port smtp rdr pass log on $ext_if inet proto tcp from to port smtp = -> 127.0.0.1 port smtp rdr pass log on $ext_if inet proto tcp to $MAILHOSTS port smtp -> = 127.0.0.1 port spamd pass in on lo0 pass in log on $ext_if inet proto tcp to 127.0.0.1 port smtp pass out log on $ext_if inet proto tcp from 127.0.0.1 to any port smtp block in quick log on $ext_if from to any From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 13:30:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9959E106566C for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 13:30:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 053558FC08 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 13:30:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.187.76.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5HDTrax000532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:29:53 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q5HDTrax000532 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infracaninophile.co.uk; s=201001-infracaninophile; t=1339939793; bh=POVkB0/6uM+z78qVUKuxGPKFsuT7avQuIRJSct6eS08=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Message-ID:Mime-Version; b=aGwUYMxJix44QNzpZb0Mppa1Z17ETrYMf7yHXukvc4WYseR26eo7Dvvyw4NX5p6ud TpwHoW0OFLFeBSWlYw1BrzER3eBEJ/G8NeQj+u9f5Q8Etg3BQknTbmdjqBKRk12Ua4 zLfq8pZcYs82rJnV4vFSgqSZRS/V+yYdM2P/y1IE= Message-ID: <4FDDDBC5.9070206@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:29:41 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Hardie References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=60AE908C Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig671CBDAA13A7C5B4045E6FB9" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.4 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_ALL,DKIM_SIGNED,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=no version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: Problem with spamlogd X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 13:30:03 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig671CBDAA13A7C5B4045E6FB9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 17/06/2012 11:45, Doug Hardie wrote: > I am using spamd on several systems and started encountering a problem = awhile ago with FreeBSD 7.2 servers, but let it go since I am in the proc= ess of upgrading the servers. However, I now am encountering the same is= sue on FreeBSD 9.0 with spamlogd. It never reads pflog0. pflogd reads t= he entries just fine. I set up syslog to log all the spamlogd messages a= nd when spamlogd is started it gives: >=20 > spamlogd: Listening on pflog0 for all interfaces.=20 >=20 > lsof shows that it is connected to bpf0 as is pflogd. However, pflogd = shows an offset into the file that appears to be the end of the file. sp= amlogd shows an offset of 0. It is periodically reading the file as show= n by ktrace but always getting back a 0 size return. spamd itself is wor= king just fine. However, the expiration times are not being updated so w= hite entries are timed out way too often. spamlogd used to update them. = The rc.conf entries are: >=20 > obspamd_enable=3D"YES" > obspamd_flags=3D"-G 2:1:1728" > obspamd_setup_flags=3D"" > obspamd_grey=3DYES > obspamlogd_enable=3D"YES" > obspamlogd_flags=3D"-W 1728" >=20 >=20 > These were established a few years ago and worked up till short while a= go. I don't recall any changes I made to anything, but=85 >=20 > Looking through the spamlogd source it appears to be building a filter = for the pcap routines with: >=20 > "ip and port 25 and action pass and tcp[13]&0x12=3D0x2" >=20 > Using that filter on pflog yields no output. I believe the pass item r= equires there to be some logging of the pass actions and those are not ap= pearing in the pflog or in the pfctl counts for those rules. I suspect t= hat is the problem. The pf.conf is: (mail server is on this machine) >=20 > ext_if=3D"em0" >=20 > table persist file "/etc/blackhole" > table persist > table persist > table persist file "/etc/mail/whitelist" >=20 >=20 > no rdr on { lo0, lo1 } from any to any >=20 > no rdr on { lo0, lo1 } from any to any > MAILHOSTS =3D "{zool.lafn.org 10.0.1.10}" >=20 > rdr pass log on $ext_if inet proto tcp from to port= smtp -> 127.0.0.1 port smtp > rdr pass log on $ext_if inet proto tcp from to port smtp = -> 127.0.0.1 port smtp > rdr pass log on $ext_if inet proto tcp to $MAILHOSTS port smtp -> 127.0= =2E0.1 port spamd >=20 >=20 > pass in on lo0 >=20 > pass in log on $ext_if inet proto tcp to 127.0.0.1 port smtp > pass out log on $ext_if inet proto tcp from 127.0.0.1 to any port smtp >=20 > block in quick log on $ext_if from to any You seem to be logging all the SMTP traffic that passes through pf in any direction. Which doesn't make a lot of sense to me -- obspamlogd will see the logged SMTP packets, assume that's valid traffic and add the hosts to the whitelist. Even if that's the incoming SYN packet from some dubious mailer trying to inject you full of spam. You should only log the SYN packets going out of your upstream (egress) interface for obspamlogd -- that way it immediately whitelists anyone you send email to, so they can reply without delay due to greylisting. A good way of doing that is to log SMTP traffic to a separate log device. eg: pass log (to pflog1) on $ext_if proto tcp \ from any to any port smtp \ flags S/SA keep state then in /etc/rc.conf, tell obspamlogd to use pflog1: obspamlogd_enable=3D"YES" obspamlogd_flags=3D"-i em0" obspamlogd_pflog_if=3D"pflog1" That way you can keep pflog0 for doing the normal packet logging that is usual with pf -- typically, logging anything that gets dropped by the firewall -- without getting obspamlogd confused. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate JID: matthew@infracaninophile.co.uk Kent, CT11 9PW --------------enig671CBDAA13A7C5B4045E6FB9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/d29AACgkQ8Mjk52CukIyEzQCeLhHbzyGtYKKJY2MSKWUxo8F1 SF0AmgPkIiqRoreH59UA80dKfAvuMDON =1hoS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig671CBDAA13A7C5B4045E6FB9-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 15:39:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB98F106566B for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:39:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bycn82@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64BB38FC0A for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:39:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vbmv11 with SMTP id v11so3001888vbm.13 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 08:39:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Vl7hL8bLl91atbo3A3f8s+9GuIEinKpoHlqU7d4W6kA=; b=GWKLEcl1jqP6KdX4R7tEyf/OgXYVR0VWwdukBKV0ElabH0MpsfdQ9JcFQCJPBHVsFD 2LtAxjI3W2O0TUCLqxV7PuiGt9do7wdyyFKPvwvkwihczZ6K/st1ZOo6aoHGY1KNbx1Y EY6IB2h80kSOR4UeyDULR3exuhSWKZQfZgjXN6wDDVrn20+uYTTYSr4/eZF0mkbeaVC/ L+TgA3cO2Gr55copbvAvDcGkY+walFMhrvgFJ2cSh4bIZRdXw7ZobdUxkBgxPYHd0MTs v78WM/TnVi3l/T8C88uNDztgeJyfLFHnUZNVa5u2Er8bvrYPxjJVNtVbDdYK6JL45PAw n1+Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.95.225 with SMTP id dn1mr5134916vdb.99.1339947554977; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 08:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.214.70 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 08:39:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120613182325.K46641@sola.nimnet.asn.au> References: <20120610120041.4D0F610657C3@hub.freebsd.org> <20120611025332.N46641@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <863961ze51.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> <20120613182325.K46641@sola.nimnet.asn.au> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 23:39:14 +0800 Message-ID: From: Bill Yuan To: Ian Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, "Brian W." , "Randal L. Schwartz" Subject: Re: how to allow by MAC X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:39:21 -0000 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Ian Smith wrote: > On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:18:18 -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > > >>>>> "Bill" == Bill Yuan writes: > > Bill> I want to create a white list MAC address, Only the machine > which it's MAC > > Bill> in the white list will be allowed, all others will be blocked. > > > > Bad idea. Since (a) every MAC address that *is* allowed is transmitted > > in the clear and (b) it's trivial to spoof a MAC address. > > > > This. is. no. security. > > Indeed, that's right Randal. But I got the impression from Bill's mails > that this is more likely just something inside his internal network. Filtering by MAC is not secure, I agree. but at least secure enough for a internal network. And I am quite sure what I want to archive. I am really want to know how to FILTER BY MAC . > > > Please stop even trying. > > Well I don't think learning how to use ipfw properly at layer2 is a bad > idea in itself, and I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from that. > > For some years I ran a filtering transparent bridge with ipfw + dummynet > for a small network of about 20 mostly W98, XP and Mac boxes sharing one > slow ADSL gateway between various assorted community groups (talk about > herding cats! :) and MAC filtering was one of the handiest tools when > some box or other got owned (again!) by some virus and started spewing > spam, provider complains and/or cuts access .. you know the deal. > > In that sort of environment, none of the punters had any clue about > forging MACs or anything vaguely like that, and it stopped people > randomly plugging boxes into the network. Horses for courses. > > I replied in more detail to another from Bill privately, copy follows. Thanks. I saw your email already .very helpful . I will continue to try in that way . and share with all here in the feature.:) cheers, Ian From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 16:41:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C7B4106566B for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 16:41:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) Received: from zoom.lafn.org (zoom.lafn.org [108.92.93.123]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 472FB8FC0C for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 16:41:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (pool-96-229-186-65.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [96.229.186.65]) (authenticated bits=0) by zoom.lafn.org (8.14.3/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5HGewIm001677; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 09:40:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Doug Hardie In-Reply-To: <4FDDDBC5.9070206@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 09:40:58 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4FDDDBC5.9070206@infracaninophile.co.uk> To: Matthew Seaman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97 at zoom.lafn.org X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: Problem with spamlogd X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 16:41:01 -0000 On 17 June 2012, at 06:29, Matthew Seaman wrote: > On 17/06/2012 11:45, Doug Hardie wrote: >> I am using spamd on several systems and started encountering a = problem awhile ago with FreeBSD 7.2 servers, but let it go since I am in = the process of upgrading the servers. However, I now am encountering = the same issue on FreeBSD 9.0 with spamlogd. It never reads pflog0. = pflogd reads the entries just fine. I set up syslog to log all the = spamlogd messages and when spamlogd is started it gives: >>=20 >> spamlogd: Listening on pflog0 for all interfaces.=20 >>=20 >> lsof shows that it is connected to bpf0 as is pflogd. However, = pflogd shows an offset into the file that appears to be the end of the = file. spamlogd shows an offset of 0. It is periodically reading the = file as shown by ktrace but always getting back a 0 size return. spamd = itself is working just fine. However, the expiration times are not = being updated so white entries are timed out way too often. spamlogd = used to update them. The rc.conf entries are: >>=20 >> obspamd_enable=3D"YES" >> obspamd_flags=3D"-G 2:1:1728" >> obspamd_setup_flags=3D"" >> obspamd_grey=3DYES >> obspamlogd_enable=3D"YES" >> obspamlogd_flags=3D"-W 1728" >>=20 >>=20 >> These were established a few years ago and worked up till short while = ago. I don't recall any changes I made to anything, but=85 >>=20 >> Looking through the spamlogd source it appears to be building a = filter for the pcap routines with: >>=20 >> "ip and port 25 and action pass and tcp[13]&0x12=3D0x2" >>=20 >> Using that filter on pflog yields no output. I believe the pass item = requires there to be some logging of the pass actions and those are not = appearing in the pflog or in the pfctl counts for those rules. I = suspect that is the problem. The pf.conf is: (mail server is on this = machine) >>=20 >> ext_if=3D"em0" >>=20 >> table persist file "/etc/blackhole" >> table persist >> table persist >> table persist file "/etc/mail/whitelist" >>=20 >>=20 >> no rdr on { lo0, lo1 } from any to any >>=20 >> no rdr on { lo0, lo1 } from any to any >> MAILHOSTS =3D "{zool.lafn.org 10.0.1.10}" >>=20 >> rdr pass log on $ext_if inet proto tcp from to = port smtp -> 127.0.0.1 port smtp >> rdr pass log on $ext_if inet proto tcp from to port = smtp -> 127.0.0.1 port smtp >> rdr pass log on $ext_if inet proto tcp to $MAILHOSTS port smtp -> = 127.0.0.1 port spamd >>=20 >>=20 >> pass in on lo0 >>=20 >> pass in log on $ext_if inet proto tcp to 127.0.0.1 port smtp >> pass out log on $ext_if inet proto tcp from 127.0.0.1 to any port = smtp >>=20 >> block in quick log on $ext_if from to any >=20 > You seem to be logging all the SMTP traffic that passes through pf in > any direction. Which doesn't make a lot of sense to me -- obspamlogd > will see the logged SMTP packets, assume that's valid traffic and add > the hosts to the whitelist. Even if that's the incoming SYN packet = from > some dubious mailer trying to inject you full of spam. Right now, I would like spamlogd to be a bit confused ;-) However, its = not seeing any of the logging. It never receives any input from pflog0. = =46rom the filter, the pass action indicates it won't look at any of = the rdr logging (which is in the log) but is waiting for the pass rules = to log something. The tcp[13]&0x12=3D0x2 item is the TCP SYN flag so it = should be able to separate out what it wants from the log. However, the = pass rules are never being used and hence they never generate any log = entries. pfctl -vvsr shows all zeros for both of those rules. =20 I understand that the pass rules are applied after the rdr rules but = apparently I am getting the matching criteria wrong. At this point = switching them to a separate log stream won't help since it would never = get anything logged to it. >=20 > You should only log the SYN packets going out of your upstream = (egress) > interface for obspamlogd -- that way it immediately whitelists anyone > you send email to, so they can reply without delay due to greylisting. >=20 > A good way of doing that is to log SMTP traffic to a separate log > device. eg: >=20 > pass log (to pflog1) on $ext_if proto tcp \ > from any to any port smtp \ > flags S/SA keep state >=20 > then in /etc/rc.conf, tell obspamlogd to use pflog1: >=20 > obspamlogd_enable=3D"YES" > obspamlogd_flags=3D"-i em0" > obspamlogd_pflog_if=3D"pflog1" >=20 > That way you can keep pflog0 for doing the normal packet logging that = is > usual with pf -- typically, logging anything that gets dropped by the > firewall -- without getting obspamlogd confused. >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > Matthew >=20 > --=20 > Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard > Flat 3 > PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate > JID: matthew@infracaninophile.co.uk Kent, CT11 9PW >=20 >=20 >=20 From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 20:14:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 767701065739 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:14:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C26978FC08 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:14:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5HKEBKi002527; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:14:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5HKE8nD002524; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:14:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:14:08 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: David Brodbeck In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <201206081611.q58GBW0J097808@fire.js.berklix.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:14:12 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Subject: Re: UEFI Secure Boot Specs - And some sanity X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:14:26 -0000 > Any server manufacturer who chooses to only support MS products is > going to find they don't get much business from the academic market. such behaviour is even more stupid today as globally PC market is shrinking. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 20:18:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADD06106566B for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:18:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 581BA8FC12 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:18:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5HKD7KC002517; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:13:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5HKD58D002514; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:13:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:13:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Felder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:13:19 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:18:10 -0000 > > Clang is consistently faster at compiling than GCC and it is very clean and > modular -- not bloated. -r-xr-xr-x 3 root wheel 37025016 12 cze 21:46 /usr/bin/clang well.. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 20:25:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F6431065670 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:25:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE478FC0A for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:25:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5HKCYfr002510; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:12:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5HKCWfJ002507; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:12:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:12:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Gary Aitken In-Reply-To: <4FDD517E.3060206@dreamchaser.org> Message-ID: References: <4FD1098E.7020203@dreamchaser.org> <4FDD517E.3060206@dreamchaser.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:12:36 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: dumping file system subtree (/var) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:25:47 -0000 >> alternatively - use tar. > > What I was trying to achieve, which I haven't done yet, was a smallish dump of the "core system". By that I mean system + ports, without distfiles, etc. Then a separate dump of user data, which is considerably larger. At this point I am thinking I should do this: > make clean distclean ports to remove temporary stuff > set /usr/home NODUMP > dump /, /var, and /usr > unset /usr/home NODUMP > dump /usr/home really - use tar. dump is not for that, but to QUICKLY dump a filesystem. on SSD - both are faster than writing to backup target disk. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 21:03:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58EF1106566C for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:03:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark@exonetric.com) Received: from relay0.exonetric.net (relay0.exonetric.net [178.250.72.161]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C4708FC0A for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:03:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.21] (unknown [78.86.207.85]) by relay0.exonetric.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29F5757023; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:30:38 +0100 (BST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Mark Blackman In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:29:58 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7B54F8CE-9CA5-4C06-B3D8-F365A67A5300@exonetric.com> References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> To: Wojciech Puchar X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: Mark Felder , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:03:26 -0000 On 17 Jun 2012, at 21:13, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>=20 >> Clang is consistently faster at compiling than GCC and it is very = clean and modular -- not bloated. >=20 > -r-xr-xr-x 3 root wheel 37025016 12 cze 21:46 /usr/bin/clang >=20 > well.. hope you just left the debugging symbols in and statically linked it=85 - Mark= From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 17 21:49:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 248501065677 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:49:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) Received: from zoom.lafn.org (zoom.lafn.org [108.92.93.123]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F179E8FC1C for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:49:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (pool-96-229-186-65.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [96.229.186.65]) (authenticated bits=0) by zoom.lafn.org (8.14.3/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5HLnmgA008643; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:49:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Doug Hardie In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:49:48 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3356910C-703E-4908-B6DE-8A71B7CD5E7F@lafn.org> References: <4FDDDBC5.9070206@infracaninophile.co.uk> To: FreeBSD Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97 at zoom.lafn.org X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: Re: Problem with spamlogd X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:49:51 -0000 After many hundreds of tests, I have uncovered something that I never = found in any of the pf documents or man pages. If an incoming packet is = processed by an rdr rule, it will always be logged as rdr with the rdr = rule number. The pass action is never logged, even if the rdr rule does = not include log and the pass rule does. As a result, since spamlogd is specifically looking for a pass action, = it will never see those log entries. Hence, you must ensure that the = packets which do get sent to the mailserver (real one) never are = processed by a rdr rule. I ended up having to use no rdr rules for = those to get the logging done such that spamlogd would find them: no rdr inet proto tcp from to any port smtp no rdr inet proto tcp from to any port smtp rdr pass on $ext_if inet proto tcp to $MAILHOSTS port smtp -> 127.0.0.1 = port spa md pass in log on $ext_if inet proto tcp to $MAILHOSTS port smtp This setup works on FreeBSD 7.2 and 9.0. I couldn't find any other that = actually worked including those in the various pf books, man pages, and = other writings on pf. On 17 June 2012, at 09:40, Doug Hardie wrote: >=20 > On 17 June 2012, at 06:29, Matthew Seaman wrote: >=20 >> On 17/06/2012 11:45, Doug Hardie wrote: >>> I am using spamd on several systems and started encountering a = problem awhile ago with FreeBSD 7.2 servers, but let it go since I am in = the process of upgrading the servers. However, I now am encountering = the same issue on FreeBSD 9.0 with spamlogd. It never reads pflog0. = pflogd reads the entries just fine. I set up syslog to log all the = spamlogd messages and when spamlogd is started it gives: >>>=20 >>> spamlogd: Listening on pflog0 for all interfaces.=20 >>>=20 >>> lsof shows that it is connected to bpf0 as is pflogd. However, = pflogd shows an offset into the file that appears to be the end of the = file. spamlogd shows an offset of 0. It is periodically reading the = file as shown by ktrace but always getting back a 0 size return. spamd = itself is working just fine. However, the expiration times are not = being updated so white entries are timed out way too often. spamlogd = used to update them. The rc.conf entries are: >>>=20 >>> obspamd_enable=3D"YES" >>> obspamd_flags=3D"-G 2:1:1728" >>> obspamd_setup_flags=3D"" >>> obspamd_grey=3DYES >>> obspamlogd_enable=3D"YES" >>> obspamlogd_flags=3D"-W 1728" >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> These were established a few years ago and worked up till short = while ago. I don't recall any changes I made to anything, but=85 >>>=20 >>> Looking through the spamlogd source it appears to be building a = filter for the pcap routines with: >>>=20 >>> "ip and port 25 and action pass and tcp[13]&0x12=3D0x2" >>>=20 >>> Using that filter on pflog yields no output. I believe the pass = item requires there to be some logging of the pass actions and those are = not appearing in the pflog or in the pfctl counts for those rules. I = suspect that is the problem. The pf.conf is: (mail server is on this = machine) >>>=20 >>> ext_if=3D"em0" >>>=20 >>> table persist file "/etc/blackhole" >>> table persist >>> table persist >>> table persist file "/etc/mail/whitelist" >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> no rdr on { lo0, lo1 } from any to any >>>=20 >>> no rdr on { lo0, lo1 } from any to any >>> MAILHOSTS =3D "{zool.lafn.org 10.0.1.10}" >>>=20 >>> rdr pass log on $ext_if inet proto tcp from to = port smtp -> 127.0.0.1 port smtp >>> rdr pass log on $ext_if inet proto tcp from to port = smtp -> 127.0.0.1 port smtp >>> rdr pass log on $ext_if inet proto tcp to $MAILHOSTS port smtp -> = 127.0.0.1 port spamd >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> pass in on lo0 >>>=20 >>> pass in log on $ext_if inet proto tcp to 127.0.0.1 port smtp >>> pass out log on $ext_if inet proto tcp from 127.0.0.1 to any port = smtp >>>=20 >>> block in quick log on $ext_if from to any >>=20 >> You seem to be logging all the SMTP traffic that passes through pf in >> any direction. Which doesn't make a lot of sense to me -- obspamlogd >> will see the logged SMTP packets, assume that's valid traffic and add >> the hosts to the whitelist. Even if that's the incoming SYN packet = from >> some dubious mailer trying to inject you full of spam. >=20 > Right now, I would like spamlogd to be a bit confused ;-) However, = its not seeing any of the logging. It never receives any input from = pflog0. =46rom the filter, the pass action indicates it won't look at = any of the rdr logging (which is in the log) but is waiting for the pass = rules to log something. The tcp[13]&0x12=3D0x2 item is the TCP SYN flag = so it should be able to separate out what it wants from the log. = However, the pass rules are never being used and hence they never = generate any log entries. pfctl -vvsr shows all zeros for both of those = rules. =20 >=20 > I understand that the pass rules are applied after the rdr rules but = apparently I am getting the matching criteria wrong. At this point = switching them to a separate log stream won't help since it would never = get anything logged to it. >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> You should only log the SYN packets going out of your upstream = (egress) >> interface for obspamlogd -- that way it immediately whitelists anyone >> you send email to, so they can reply without delay due to = greylisting. >>=20 >> A good way of doing that is to log SMTP traffic to a separate log >> device. eg: >>=20 >> pass log (to pflog1) on $ext_if proto tcp \ >> from any to any port smtp \ >> flags S/SA keep state >>=20 >> then in /etc/rc.conf, tell obspamlogd to use pflog1: >>=20 >> obspamlogd_enable=3D"YES" >> obspamlogd_flags=3D"-i em0" >> obspamlogd_pflog_if=3D"pflog1" >>=20 >> That way you can keep pflog0 for doing the normal packet logging that = is >> usual with pf -- typically, logging anything that gets dropped by the >> firewall -- without getting obspamlogd confused. >>=20 >> Cheers, >>=20 >> Matthew >>=20 >> --=20 >> Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard >> Flat 3 >> PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate >> JID: matthew@infracaninophile.co.uk Kent, CT11 9PW >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 04:37:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F10D71065670 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 04:37:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller23@insightbb.com) Received: from mail.insightbb.com (smtp1.insight.synacor.com [208.47.185.23]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76518FC1A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 04:37:42 +0000 (UTC) X_CMAE_Category: 0,0 Undefined,Undefined X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=lljW59YWVaFeJXPDmqclc9ychU24yphXAzhyVd07dz0= c=1 sm=0 a=jLN7EqiLvroA:10 a=FCsNJcO4v-mVoT4wXIoA:9 a=Q/oqmR4JO1zR3vNQamCQeQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Authentication-Results: smtp02.insight.synacor.com smtp.mail=mueller23@insightbb.com; spf=softfail; sender-id=softfail Authentication-Results: smtp02.insight.synacor.com header.from=mueller230@insightbb.com; sender-id=softfail Received-SPF: softfail (smtp02.insight.synacor.com: transitional domain insightbb.com does not designate 74.134.26.53 as permitted sender) Received: from [74.134.26.53] ([74.134.26.53:52326] helo=localhost) by mail.insightbb.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.40 r(29895/29896)) with ESMTP id FC/A2-28005-090BEDF4; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:37:36 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:37:36 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Thomas Mueller" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 04:37:43 -0000 What is the current status of Clang vs. GCC as default compiler for ports and for "make buildworld" and "make buildkernel" in HEAD and 9.0-STABLE? Now one concern is wine not working when Clang is used to "make buildworld". I see from reading the emailing lists that the intention is to make Clang the default (or only?) compiler suite for 10.0-RELEASE. I realize that still leaves much time to work out many of the bugs. Tom From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 05:24:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C666B106564A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 05:24:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848FA8FC12 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 05:24:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so10088511obc.13 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:24:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=yhpID2/pKko0DTULuoWq6Ymz2vZgWaL88jiEvTC6n/E=; b=s4Ys0GCwfcgjnFPGON54k0fuA5red5VAqJG92UZCta6Tt9yFX2rqTeFrT6Ovw++aIc JXnBY1LvD2kG+hk1FZqn9/HuwJmG31yKSfRk3qTUy32z67CHha3PcFtz0Rk/LDkcFbK9 1vTxV6vqMUgBjzAW5j6sJnmBy0yUez2TiPyJ0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=yhpID2/pKko0DTULuoWq6Ymz2vZgWaL88jiEvTC6n/E=; b=pz4xREPnBj+nSrIyUhLTKLx20ffR9Yynt+J0zWfVDXZCvUDpq/9fqR2EiPVUnVf4gl KS10iFXJGjLJr3y22N6Z5fTTk+W1T17YTxipaGkJhC8Eb2QPvaC1P9jVt2nC7uEhCXfZ /8l4JwdMWfNtgBLIn+aPiLZ1OTzPaUV3nS0EKUTlPOcNDJoE72+C9MWItjTx8L5uBq2S J5n3ADcni4WqrQw4DgJv+ukiokhvO6N2CBtrOI6DgeXUxGCn+P18dzZnTmPM6x714XpQ MoDhqsDdCKqH5jEm49pmZG0KqFyfcZjIblOkh/JcAMl7BxcHgKyg+7LfWACA4Sa1JphA CutQ== Received: by 10.182.109.69 with SMTP id hq5mr14271837obb.4.1339997046905; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:24:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.125.70 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:23:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Eitan Adler Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 22:23:36 -0700 Message-ID: To: Thomas Mueller Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn8vbx0OwLFHDKSkHipmW8zaYeUF4IgkGKKfRY88X0fWVDv8VYdDJVYVMIOXnxdBER3SIrk Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 05:24:07 -0000 On 17 June 2012 21:37, Thomas Mueller wrote: > What is the current status of Clang vs. GCC as default compiler for ports and for > "make buildworld" and "make buildkernel" in HEAD and 9.0-STABLE? http://wiki.freebsd.org/PortsAndClang > Now one concern is wine not working when Clang is used to "make buildworld". This isn't good. Can you please follow up with more debugging information? (gdb backtrace with debugging symbols enabled) > I see from reading the emailing lists that the intention is to make Clang the default (or only?) compiler suite for 10.0-RELEASE. Yes. > I realize that still leaves much time to work out many of the bugs. We need your help though. -- Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 07:27:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC33E1065670 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:27:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller23@insightbb.com) Received: from mail.insightbb.com (smtp1.insight.synacor.com [208.47.185.23]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0A58FC12 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:27:12 +0000 (UTC) X_CMAE_Category: 0,0 Undefined,Undefined X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=lljW59YWVaFeJXPDmqclc9ychU24yphXAzhyVd07dz0= c=1 sm=0 a=jLN7EqiLvroA:10 a=9YQ-1ebCAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=GEfn47E5AAAA:20 a=CPwHEtg4uEa4kPLiBV4A:9 a=TPDArUm_w_0A:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=Q/oqmR4JO1zR3vNQamCQeQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Authentication-Results: smtp02.insight.synacor.com header.from=mueller230@insightbb.com; sender-id=softfail Authentication-Results: smtp02.insight.synacor.com smtp.mail=mueller23@insightbb.com; spf=softfail; sender-id=softfail Received-SPF: softfail (smtp02.insight.synacor.com: transitional domain insightbb.com does not designate 74.134.26.53 as permitted sender) Received: from [74.134.26.53] ([74.134.26.53:54669] helo=localhost) by mail.insightbb.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.40 r(29895/29896)) with ESMTP id 92/29-28005-086DEDF4; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 03:19:29 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 03:19:28 -0400 Message-ID: <92.29.28005.086DEDF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> From: "Thomas Mueller" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Eitan Adler Subject: Re: Why Clang? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:27:12 -0000 > On 17 June 2012 21:37, Thomas Mueller wrote: > > What is the current status of Clang vs. GCC as default compiler for ports and for > > "make buildworld" and "make buildkernel" in HEAD and 9.0-STABLE? > http://wiki.freebsd.org/PortsAndClang > > Now one concern is wine not working when Clang is used to "make buildworld". > This isn't good. Can you please follow up with more debugging > information? (gdb backtrace with debugging symbols enabled) > > I see from reading the emailing lists that the intention is to make Clang the default (or only?) compiler suite for 10.0-RELEASE. > Yes. > > I realize that still leaves much time to work out many of the bugs. > We need your help though. > Eitan Adler Now you give me incentive to try current (HEAD) with Clang, on a separate partition from my 9.0-STABLE installation, if and when I get the time. I could use the old 9.0-BETA1 partition. I went straight for the wiki link you gave (PortsAndClang). My information on wine not working with clang-compiled world came from the emailing list (freebsd-questions) rather than my own experience. These pertinent messages come when the announcement of a new Wine-fbsd64 is announced. Latest such message that I see is: From: David Naylor Subject: Wine-fbsd64 updated to 1.4.1 (32bit Wine for 64bit FreeBSD) Packages [1] for wine-fbsd64-1.4.1 have been uploaded to mediafire [2]. The packages for FreeBSD 10 use the pkgng* [3] format. There are many reports that wine does not work with a clang compiled world (help in fixing this problem is appreciated as it affects quite a few users). The patch [4] for nVidia users is now included in the package and is run on installation (if the relevant files are accessible). Please read the installation messages for further information. Regards, David [1] MD5 (wine-1.4.x-freebsd8/wine-fbsd64-1.4.1,1.tbz) = 63f031c996b1201b056db34e6aa5b8f3 MD5 (wine-1.4.x-freebsd9/wine-fbsd64-1.4.1,1.txz) = 86aa9c66f05c61def997076befac5ba3 MD5 (wine-1.4.x-freebsd10/wine-fbsd64-1.4.1,1.txz) = b0b19714510f278187dcf8c696cae9c0 [2] http://www.mediafire.com/wine_fbsd64 [3] http://wiki.freebsd.org/pkgng [4] The patch is located at /usr/local/share/wine/patch-nvidia.sh (end of quote from David Naylor) Tom From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 07:29:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75579106564A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:29:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC2358FC18 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:29:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.187.76.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5I7T8nQ020131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:29:08 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q5I7T8nQ020131 Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/q5I7T8nQ020131; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none Message-ID: <4FDED8BC.6030501@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:29:00 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig6AA9E0F84D4042ADE09CB2D1" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.4 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: Subject: Re: Why Clang? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:29:13 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig6AA9E0F84D4042ADE09CB2D1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 18/06/2012 05:37, Thomas Mueller wrote: > What is the current status of Clang vs. GCC as default compiler for por= ts and for > "make buildworld" and "make buildkernel" in HEAD and 9.0-STABLE? Most ports work fine with clang -- at the last count 18252 out of 23661 ports compiled just fine. Of the failing ports, around a thousand are caused by a broken dependency, so the situation is actually better than it appears. See: http://wiki.freebsd.org/PortsAndClang > Now one concern is wine not working when Clang is used to "make buildwo= rld". That's not one of the ports listed as failing in the page above (but that only tests building the port, not if it actually performs its intended function), nor are there any open PRs on the subject. Please can you open a PR showing how to reproduce the problem? > I see from reading the emailing lists that the intention is to make > Clang the default (or only?) compiler suite for 10.0-RELEASE. clang will be the only compiler in the base system, true. However there are a number of C/C++ compilers available from ports, and there is work going on to allow switching between those and the base system compiler more easily when compiling ports. You aren't going to be forced to use clang if you don't want to (although I can't understand why you wouldn't want to. It's an excellent compiler.) > I realize that still leaves much time to work out many of the bugs. clang already compiles the system perfectly well. I'm using it by default for that on my personal machines without problems. Any remaining clang-bugs in the system would be few and far between and generally in areas which are quite hard to trigger. clang with ports is less well covered. A lot of ported code is not written to the highest quality, nor does it conform to recently (or not so recently) published standards. It's a hard task for any compiler. One point that possibly hasn't been as apparent as it might is that FreeBSD adopting clang has had a big effect on clang development, and not just the other way round. We're discovering bugs and getting fixes committed upstream pretty effectively. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey --------------enig6AA9E0F84D4042ADE09CB2D1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/e2MQACgkQ8Mjk52CukIwEdgCghz8rfZ0Jl9acZ/nXmH0JcBc3 ldMAn1RHgDaDQf+imlYLI0mxsGPht2UT =9kkI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig6AA9E0F84D4042ADE09CB2D1-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 11:34:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D55A91065670 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:34:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from c.kworr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DFDD8FC12 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:34:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so4861900bkv.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 04:34:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ky3TvTeR2sbSsW92azT/Fu9yER6ZBkQpPNoM3KZHiek=; b=uabzAIaH5uGU/+dTvethgPvWdKaPpSlgW+CovWC4uCkph15ucpEUHpjo0SqN2sZTRG ZSrj1KrFXqA5dRQUiqlHxdwh8rH6kqMel4BwObF8jWomgPYOssbbe1wx3DIltXnOXQ0g Geeq77615bSNE7dOsZSOd5pdz3Q5Cl3ryltZ/UUlTlpEbtnF8rGYjH4uWOhdJU3CqQib z6PP3VTOhkhykiEAdW3AYcQS4gLwEQoFEocpwbIxIGtruTM9WKAHbgPfdNLMAhArpu/X sOd92W8n38SKFSJaAuymzw9psl8rUKEZgzneq3FNTPT+xRbrEMBQoNoeMVnOG6C5BjSG x48w== Received: by 10.204.152.75 with SMTP id f11mr1567911bkw.103.1340019278428; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 04:34:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from green.tandem.local (utwig.xim.bz. [91.216.237.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u8sm18297328bks.0.2012.06.18.04.34.36 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 04:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FDF123A.6040306@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:34:18 +0300 From: Volodymyr Kostyrko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120605 Firefox/12.0 SeaMonkey/2.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Mueller References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:34:39 -0000 Thomas Mueller wrote: > Now one concern is wine not working when Clang is used to "make buildworld". For me I'm just waiting on toolchain stabilization as both this one and (open|libre)office fail because of libgcc_s compiled with clang on amd64. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 12:26:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C42441065672 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:26:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from remailer@dizum.com) Received: from smtp.zedz.net (outpost.zedz.net [194.109.206.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8429E8FC0C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:26:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.zedz.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 863171D400D for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:26:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp.zedz.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gdObkJOy982G for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:26:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by smtp.zedz.net (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 999DB1F4AF0; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:25:56 +0200 (CEST) From: Nomen Nescio Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. Please report problems or inappropriate use to the remailer administrator at . To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4FDED8BC.6030501@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <21882b1fd46f0f76a5213474532397e0@dizum.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:25:56 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Why Clang? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:26:59 -0000 > clang already compiles the system perfectly well. I'm using it by > default for that on my personal machines without problems. Any > remaining clang-bugs in the system would be few and far between and > generally in areas which are quite hard to trigger. > > clang with ports is less well covered. A lot of ported code is not > written to the highest quality, nor does it conform to recently (or not > so recently) published standards. It's a hard task for any compiler. I'm sure autotools doesn't help. I ASSume that issue doesn't exist with the system itself so yeah I would expect gnu's autotools not to get along with anything but gcc (damn them!) Ports are probably mostly written for Linux since that is the only "operating system" that exists as far as they know. > One point that possibly hasn't been as apparent as it might is that > FreeBSD adopting clang has had a big effect on clang development, and > not just the other way round. We're discovering bugs and getting fixes > committed upstream pretty effectively. I'm very grateful for that and I give two thumbs up to FreeBSD for doing so much to help free us from the Marxist gnu ecosystem. I meant it. I'm seriously considering ditching my long-time Linux setup for FreeBSD when you guys make clang the default and build everything with it. I've used FreeBSD on and off in the past and I'm thinking about switching back. Thank you, FreeBSD team! Hopefully all the *BSD OS will follow your lead in this. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 12:51:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF68B106568B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:51:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from subhro@80386.org) Received: from oproxy9.bluehost.com (oproxy9.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AFD398FC18 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:51:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 5465 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jun 2012 12:51:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box761.bluehost.com) (66.147.244.61) by oproxy9.bluehost.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2012 12:51:24 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=80386.org; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject; bh=j61DQRGBeD2rkbSwuZTFZelNxl3A/WFoBx+o6w0dnUw=; b=21R00iYIjAYyZ5p8Dz/kXphgl/R6KaibxoSzxNdaXylIY62S7duEbBD9ZvW3FR4MZ3gwRWa1I3M1r3Kr/kdDTZV6hlvsvndLtibs3ts2KpPgIKVOMHpFdw+o2neZASly; Received: from [117.194.33.180] (port=61579 helo=[192.168.1.5]) by box761.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SgbQR-0007Hb-9p; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:51:23 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Subhro Sankha Kar In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:21:19 +0530 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2E5AA9E9-4A5B-49C4-B05D-0188F85C6163@80386.org> References: <4FB80D3E.8020308@gmx.de> To: User Wojtek X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Identified-User: {1190:box761.bluehost.com:pixelpa2:80386.org} {sentby:smtp auth 117.194.33.180 authed with subhro@80386.org} Cc: "lokadamus@gmx.de" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: openoffice doesn't work - any ideas? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:51:25 -0000 Hello, On 20-May-2012, at 3:00 AM, User Wojtek wrote: > the problem is that what i found is not this. >=20 > all description i found is that deleting .openoffice* from $HOME fixes = it. it doesn't. i even created new user with no leftover any config = files and still same. Are your ports up to date? Also, did you apply any funky compile time = flags? Thanks -- Subhro Sankha Kar System Administrator Working and Playing with FreeBSD since 2002 >=20 > On Sat, 19 May 2012, lokadamus@gmx.de wrote: >=20 >> On 05/19/12 13:24, User Wojtek wrote: >>> [wojtek@wojtek ~/robod]$ openoffice-3.4.0 >>> [Java framework] Error in function createSettingsDocument = (elements.cxx).javaldx failed! >>> terminate called after throwing an instance of = 'com::sun::star::uno::RuntimeException' >>> compiled fine, installed without problems jdk 1.6 too. >>> any ideas? thanks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> Google find many things with "javaldx failed". >> Is a problem with java, but different solutions (wrong xml, home = permission, java- version ...). >>=20 >> Hope you find a solution. >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>=20 >>=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 13:12:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6BC8106566C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:12:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4011E8FC0A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:12:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IDCNd7036300; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:12:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IDCNNi036297; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:12:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:12:23 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Blackman In-Reply-To: <7B54F8CE-9CA5-4C06-B3D8-F365A67A5300@exonetric.com> Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> <7B54F8CE-9CA5-4C06-B3D8-F365A67A5300@exonetric.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:12:23 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Mark Felder , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:12:40 -0000 >>> Clang is consistently faster at compiling than GCC and it is very clean and modular -- not bloated. >> >> -r-xr-xr-x 3 root wheel 37025016 12 cze 21:46 /usr/bin/clang >> >> well.. > > hope you just left the debugging symbols in and statically linked it? standard FreeBSD built, assumed freebsd build system do the right things. test done with SSD disk so I/O time are insignificant. /usr/bin/clang: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for FreeBSD 9.0 (900506), stripped /usr/bin/clang: libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 (0x802b58000) libm.so.5 => /lib/libm.so.5 (0x802e68000) libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x803089000) libc.so.7 => /lib/libc.so.7 (0x803296000) [wojtek@wojtek ~]$ ls -l /usr/libexec/cc1* -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 6265360 12 cze 21:46 /usr/libexec/cc1 -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 6813856 12 cze 21:46 /usr/libexec/cc1plus [wojtek@wojtek ~]$ file /usr/libexec/cc1* /usr/libexec/cc1: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), statically linked, for FreeBSD 9.0 (900506), stripped /usr/libexec/cc1plus: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), statically linked, for FreeBSD 9.0 (900506), stripped [wojtek@wojtek ~]$ ls -l /usr/bin/cc -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 450184 12 cze 21:46 /usr/bin/cc [wojtek@wojtek ~]$ ls -l /usr/bin/cpp -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 199304 12 cze 21:46 /usr/bin/cpp that's about bloat. now about speed: compiling time of my custom kernel (just kernel, no modules, -j 2) gcc: real 2m2.880s user 3m35.788s sys 0m23.799s makeoptions CC="clang" : real 2m8.511s user 3m48.025s sys 0m22.602s resulting programs (gzip as example,stripped, dynamic link): -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 36792 18 cze 14:53 gzip.cc -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 36728 18 cze 14:53 gzip.clang speed test (compression -9 to /dev/null of 4GB file - windows XP image in virtualbox): gzip.clang: [root@wojtek ~/NOBACKUP]# time ./gzip.clang -9c /home/wojtek/NOBACKUP/Winda.part1 >/dev/null real 9m17.495s user 8m59.466s sys 0m5.724s gzip.cc: [root@wojtek ~/NOBACKUP]# time ./gzip.cc -9c /home/wojtek/NOBACKUP/Winda.part1 >/dev/null real 9m26.206s user 9m2.700s sys 0m7.551s clang is slightly slower (nearly comparable) to gcc, produced similar sized code, that executes in similar speed (<0.5% difference in CPU time), while clang itself is 5 times bigger. sometimes spending just a few minutes to CHECK how things are is far better than following a hype. I would say not just sometimes, but always. Don't forget that gcc is result of much over 20 years of constant patching, modifying, adding and changing the same code which MUST result in bloat and inefficiency. Clang written recently with "fresh look" resulted in no faster, but far more bloated program. quite strange IMHO, think what will be within 5 years. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 13:20:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8F16106564A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:20:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lenzi.sergio@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 905CD8FC15 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:20:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so4302505yen.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:20:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:from:to:disposition-notification-to:content-type:date :message-id:mime-version:x-mailer; bh=qT5DFkLEGXW7QG79XH+oSXdRhsTIt9kMHVJoZ/rlXQo=; b=jeyij8iqMG8gUbKj2R8Bq2DFDIvxg4++sF+WABpmaJk9LmEvZPGk6RAlPJv2/izf2e AUe0KPkeGCxTdP6Bj8D0UJ5i7UySSpM3jGlMxvQmu8+4hTYvfON8Df0qtNg/EGX6nBta d/IPzxsQS0CZI0Wc2rgUOVkZEhn10SbXOQmaembhKZow7MXBt/JZs79mtRCqBA402DQO 78Ws8lftFhDY5WP2jg4KdKhx0OHKNYlkd8j2miAiXCLeLm83HIkQ5btrkLUtBvDoOiX2 jZ2UysnKR4yNS7NJtMCLxUU7PNjMxDxOfTxIB6xQK+n/56xpGdSFXtSJ2qkxryvi/hrZ rb5g== Received: by 10.236.75.6 with SMTP id y6mr18202073yhd.24.1340025614128; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.6.230] ([201.21.143.8]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n37sm29626756anq.0.2012.06.18.06.20.11 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:20:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Sergio de Almeida Lenzi To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:20:09 -0300 Message-ID: <1340025609.95799.4.camel@z6000.lenzicasa> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: libc version X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:20:14 -0000 Hello... I upgrade the server from version 8.2 to 8.3, and rebuild all packages.. it all works... Then I installed a binary package (8.3) in an old 8.2 ... every package works... gnome, nautilus, wget.... about 800 of them the only one that does not work is postgesql84-server when I try to run it it I got the message: /libexec/ld-elf.so.1: /lib/libc.so.7: version FBSD_1.3 required by /usr/local/bin/postgres not found seems that only postgres is check for the libc version??? is there a compile switch to check for that??? Of course, if I compile postgres in the 8.2 or upgrade to 8.3 it works... Thanks for any help, From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 13:31:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8A1C1065670; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:31:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naylor.b.david@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F5488FC0A; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:31:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so4603459wer.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:31:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:user-agent:cc:references:in-reply-to :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; bh=6YrBaHwsxS783IaZBmDNn7T+iRPYRCopoqj23QpN7TY=; b=ALf6ZJ4aQG8fBpzQR2b+yiOGXEbWydqvGJU5TSAUSnI+SD5KqJPsxPnmA5Far4cddz SGN9vOiPGi2axSElHgZ25YasNHGdzt2AWeEUCQMujK9siMdFCY6NOobrlI1TnZjbDw4m 1uZwuD2gma7Edr+Opxn3sa4wpqD8ViIlxVCmbCKtrhF3s8K93PmL2bndXSMKHb2al4Cx 9lnt7Vof11TReHr8wt0icr/nzYiF3HrgA/dTE+wpC+Ru6oUQlyAs0RBwaybqlIuHPgch 8Sa8Ol7FSSq0R3TsNfeVvdOGPUB1Gp+nAGIzGdgRa1EjUCHztNq4DOfvV02eYOKZv7Q8 6d4Q== Received: by 10.180.95.100 with SMTP id dj4mr24210830wib.17.1340026266192; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:31:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.dg (41-132-211-220.dsl.mweb.co.za. [41.132.211.220]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fo7sm25718631wib.9.2012.06.18.06.31.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:31:05 -0700 (PDT) From: David Naylor To: "Thomas Mueller" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:30:54 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/9.0-STABLE; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <92.29.28005.086DEDF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> In-Reply-To: <92.29.28005.086DEDF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart4544753.i54qnzhC2y"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206181530.57970.naylor.b.david@gmail.com> Cc: Eitan Adler , Volodymyr Kostyrko , Matthew Seaman , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:31:13 -0000 --nextPart4544753.i54qnzhC2y Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, On Monday, 18 June 2012 09:19:28 Thomas Mueller wrote: > > On 17 June 2012 21:37, Thomas Mueller wrote: > > > Now one concern is wine not working when Clang is used to "make > > > buildworld". > >=20 > > This isn't good. Can you please follow up with more debugging > > information? (gdb backtrace with debugging symbols enabled) > >=20 > These pertinent messages come when the announcement of a new Wine-fbsd64 = is > announced. I am the one who sends these persistent messages. Some users of my package= s=20 reported that wine didn't run due to a clang compiled world. I never verif= ied=20 them (although I got multiple reports). With the updates to clang it may h= ave=20 also been corrected. =20 I attributed the problem to clang miscompiling a library in base used by wi= ne=20 and Volodymyr, I think, confirms this: On Monday, 18 June 2012 13:34:18 Volodymyr Kostyrko wrote: > Thomas Mueller wrote: > > Now one concern is wine not working when Clang is used to "make > > buildworld". >=20 > For me I'm just waiting on toolchain stabilization as both this one and > (open|libre)office fail because of libgcc_s compiled with clang on amd64. Regards --nextPart4544753.i54qnzhC2y Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEABECAAYFAk/fLZEACgkQUaaFgP9pFrLTMQCeKC6gOGaqP0jebMWrnVZD0wdl YYIAn0+5Pj8T1jomH1CwQ+1GxYPUOYVI =h0pk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart4544753.i54qnzhC2y-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 13:32:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 896F41065672; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:32:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vladimir.budnev@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAB4B8FC1C; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:31:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so1766939eek.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:31:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4IVveufQahBI4PavzNqUKTYA3i3jOhcJnZCP26+GaoQ=; b=edoBDNV8/U3F9+I42G0xEOXjpz/F08279mKEfazo/w1xTchEod2tJ1RQJ5tjIphDSI Ic1oExMdkCd9pEjxFYaJKl2b0dWdPtEd7tFt3l8G96VNPTkqsTxgXvZGtsRtAqIkx5iG ryEsFaAV5cecEU2EsBn6jM68SyCX9Rgkx84aboHxPcPcxWAVXC/cQrE3T1Jh6NXf6rev o4I7Fr99Ckw24+6qpf/zouiwNPCW8TgpJ4Do688TUsJsrBf7CV1vbgXe5D8Hfz6mt7Yz LrmrpUaivFZhmO7Vq769HvoLtIKyz3fR7Pb1v3le2lBMtDbZCe/b04wQAbqF46Nz2jiT qF4Q== Received: by 10.152.104.171 with SMTP id gf11mr14679123lab.5.1340026319020; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:31:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.66.106] ([80.253.27.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j3sm11477718lbh.0.2012.06.18.06.31.57 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FDF2DCA.2020105@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:31:54 +0400 From: Budnev Vladimir User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: (Free 7.2) "su -l" didnt prompt password.Is it possbile? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:32:00 -0000 Hello everyone. We'v noticed some strange situation. After reboot and login, system didn't ask for password while switchig with su -l. In details, there was root login from terminal and one from ssh. Terminal login was directly as root(via ip-console), and ssh was as user, then attemped switch to root with su -l, and there were NO password request,no prompt at all. At the same time login from terminal accepted root password, first I thought that means password wasn't empty, but system even with empty password should print "Password:"..and that time it was nothing absolultey. We even logged out and then su -l again. And It looked such way: %su -l St-serv# St-serv# exit %su -l St-serv# We'v been shocked and hurried a bit and changed root password without /etc/master.passwd backup for explorations. After chagning password we cant no reprocude such behaviour. It's also should be noticed that system was booting after unsafe power shutdown, and there was fs-check running in background(accroding to logs), corrected cleared some files(searching by inum resulted to nothing). sysctl -a gave such string: <118>Starting background file system checks in 60 seconds. <118> and in /var/log/messages we could see: Jun 15 14:57:39 St-serv kernel: em0: link state changed to UP Jun 15 14:57:49 St-serv login: ROOT LOGIN (root) ON ttyv0 Jun 15 14:58:47 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1e: 71 files, 11 used, 2538508 free (84 frags, 317303 blocks, 0.0% fragmentation) Jun 15 15:02:31 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1f: 264646 files, 1378041 used, 60368113 free (43545 frags, 7540571 blocks, 0.1% fragmentation) Jun 15 15:03:31 St-serv su: zimmer to root on /dev/ttyp0 Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: INCORRECT BLOCK COUNT I=1931747 (897632 should be 897600) (CORRECTED) Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: INCORRECT BLOCK COUNT I=1931748 (1865184 should be 1865120) (CORRECTED) Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: INCORRECT BLOCK COUNT I=2284637 (4 should be 0) (CORRECTED) Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: INCORRECT BLOCK COUNT I=2284713 (4 should be 0) (CORRECTED) Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: UNREF FILE I=23557 OWNER=root MODE=100644 Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: SIZE=0 MTIME=Jun 9 18:51 2012 (CLEARED) Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: UNREF FILE I=1931319 OWNER=root MODE=100640 Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: SIZE=728 MTIME=Jul 26 17:37 2011 (CLEARED) <...> I'v googled and found only one thread with su didnt'asking for password, that one was abut jails, but this time we have a 100% garanty that we didnt put any virtual enviroments. So the thing that scares is, mb this is symptop of server rootkit? (We'v found nothing unusual in logs but it means nothing...) Or there is some other explanation why su could not ask password? Thanks in advance PS Duplicated question to freebsd-questions and freebsd-security because unsure which one it should be send. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 14:03:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CB4106566C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:03:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost1.sentex.ca (smarthost1-6.sentex.ca [IPv6:2607:f3e0:0:1::12]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B3C38FC0C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:03:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.43.26] (pyroxene.sentex.ca [199.212.134.18]) by smarthost1.sentex.ca (8.14.5/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5IE30aE023163; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:03:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-ID: <4FDF3513.5050909@sentex.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:02:59 -0400 From: Mike Tancsa Organization: Sentex Communications User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Budnev Vladimir References: <4FDF2DCA.2020105@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4FDF2DCA.2020105@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.72 on 64.7.153.18 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (Free 7.2) "su -l" didnt prompt password.Is it possbile? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:03:01 -0000 On 6/18/2012 9:31 AM, Budnev Vladimir wrote: > > And It looked such way: > > %su -l Before you enter this command, post the output of id ---Mike -- ------------------- Mike Tancsa, tel +1 519 651 3400 Sentex Communications, mike@sentex.net Providing Internet services since 1994 www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada http://www.tancsa.com/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 14:24:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E60D1065676 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:24:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vladimir.budnev@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB7D8FC1C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:24:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so5359852lbo.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:24:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=er/pV7q2NjQQ+U1voVhPg8SmyBE9nu1ObnoT92mZHgg=; b=pSI+EjlH4bwJa6P161xxi4kbcWChsF0RqkNe1g6d+A8fi9QKaXgmv8x8pHArhRsWK6 c9C0byp2jjW/1uNmdB8BOkDB+ls+GA7Pf+8/gQLdqoyMPIFgTLAgTtxnjCPeKXHOqWNQ UKVpFr/X14aXK1QHm/Sdu1Nbcg6+4R7yNXVEhmjVZTI7PzqjoyL0dDYAMT9SBFZEyRJA vOC0094Mm2JVE82vzk+OKCWoTlETcFLDkiD0AxxCB0ITZvKLbP5yCu2kiEurXOtOKdcS ee3gvRBsEE7lL9tnGwfI0xLZ8QSfguuwZmq7VEjByYuYRQR4ACvTo/J4xEmDbVQhOe2Y 28Pg== Received: by 10.112.49.100 with SMTP id t4mr6571008lbn.10.1340029478448; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.66.106] ([80.253.27.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h9sm11560800lbi.9.2012.06.18.07.24.36 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FDF3A22.7030307@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:24:34 +0400 From: Budnev Vladimir User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Tancsa References: <4FDF2DCA.2020105@gmail.com> <4FDF3513.5050909@sentex.net> In-Reply-To: <4FDF3513.5050909@sentex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (Free 7.2) "su -l" didnt prompt password.Is it possbile? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:24:40 -0000 18.06.2012 18:02, Mike Tancsa напиŃĐ°Đ»: > On 6/18/2012 9:31 AM, Budnev Vladimir wrote: >> And It looked such way: >> >> %su -l > Before you enter this command, post the output of > id Unfortunately, we can not flashback or reproduce that step now, cause we'v hurried and changed root password to avoid such strange "free logins". And changing it back didnt change a thing. It was...and't went. We had only buffered console output :( But mb you can point in what case there is possibility to make "su -l" without any prompt. I suppose you mean that user has gid=0 or smthng like that but it hasn't. And as i mentioned changin root password to another and backwards doesn't allow to reproduce discribed behaviour. > > ---Mike > > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 14:32:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A577F106566C; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:32:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B599C8FC1C; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:32:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so5093941bkv.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:32:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=BMKQxg8fFQM3rqF9ieFbKtwflo4Wr70o6b2AqVHH71Q=; b=YNSYCZUvGZ1mZey1U6g3uHrPuMZAAsfllSe83CsloZ9q94Q0/Qde7AAvm6OWMf9SQB YG7oPA27nj3nH+ier/TypzD0gzKRAR4OXYd2DUoBNfQdwROHsMauj1jaYba5qgqKTsto oFgLGjfsDeTCIDduhCp7DGpyOz50jNmm9m0Q5YNf9sMwVZhJCSarvWbWrRz3TeEtZcv6 ntugSjPOdRNpb5Gtiw4NBKXsQvunAn45XDKsbJRcEB45f47RdVQjdoHUHRUWhZkqG2Nz Mg1CZX0iAWV/l380Da7jUqfcMYx4GOlAYw1+iAW8k7LX2oTQTSetzaCV6LkMLwgszTXr YoDw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.154.193 with SMTP id p1mr6372777bkw.102.1340029949430; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:32:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FDF2DCA.2020105@gmail.com> References: <4FDF2DCA.2020105@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:32:29 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Budnev Vladimir Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (Free 7.2) "su -l" didnt prompt password.Is it possbile? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:32:31 -0000 On Jun 18, 2012 2:34 PM, "Budnev Vladimir" wrote: > > Hello everyone. > We'v noticed some strange situation. After reboot and login, system didn't ask for password while switchig with su -l. > > In details, there was root login from terminal and one from ssh. > Terminal login was directly as root(via ip-console), and ssh was as user, then attemped switch to root with su -l, and there were NO password request,no prompt at all. At the same time login from terminal accepted root password, first I thought that means password wasn't empty, but system even with empty password should print "Password:"..and that time it was nothing absolultey. Empty password behaviour is for no prompt, so what you are seeing is normal, and means that you did indeed have a empty password. Check your logs very carefully over the past few weeks to make sure no one has broken in. Chris From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 14:37:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 489B7106564A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:37:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost1.sentex.ca (smarthost1-6.sentex.ca [IPv6:2607:f3e0:0:1::12]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09E048FC15 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:37:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.43.26] (pyroxene.sentex.ca [199.212.134.18]) by smarthost1.sentex.ca (8.14.5/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5IEbFg0030482; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:37:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-ID: <4FDF3D1B.2010408@sentex.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:37:15 -0400 From: Mike Tancsa Organization: Sentex Communications User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Budnev Vladimir References: <4FDF2DCA.2020105@gmail.com> <4FDF3513.5050909@sentex.net> <4FDF3A22.7030307@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4FDF3A22.7030307@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.72 on 64.7.153.18 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (Free 7.2) "su -l" didnt prompt password.Is it possbile? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:37:17 -0000 On 6/18/2012 10:24 AM, Budnev Vladimir wrote: > But mb you can point in what case there is possibility to make "su -l" > without any prompt. If the uid is 0, you wont need to enter a passwd ---Mike -- ------------------- Mike Tancsa, tel +1 519 651 3400 Sentex Communications, mike@sentex.net Providing Internet services since 1994 www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada http://www.tancsa.com/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 14:41:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4CB106564A; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:41:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vladimir.budnev@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC7928FC12; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:41:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so5383583lbo.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:41:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=lv+DveBaBYnwPnL1HKXhUBLy0j7bf0LUG2E5ZGzWLSQ=; b=aMhlUtVzT+C261EUtBTRF8mr7htdWZfNR72K8ZFsGLbzbK0ApHp8FdFCMug3lbgknt mdr5MGjtpkCTDFfJ9HA7lSLDHm9/6+72SqtFXUXCrZgqhx8W7EdEI9ID4jA27inDrA/2 8vrlobSaWy0GQ3/ZvlX+lL/yLg798RzPcIiQEs7bPibt8vXV2R5ZL1rAJ4JVtThV0AYp UbSUOzW2BKY1pvKaZbVWMWm4zLUCVzC9N2qr0iNN1rcsHa3jhXTtMFj521REWrIz8Yzs L+LuOB1k+roLm1mIJh8D7B/qzI2Iqx6EW0QwiGbtoP6HUqB+gRG5dUiJzzQBbhPvrdVn 6Byw== Received: by 10.112.40.36 with SMTP id u4mr6587063lbk.70.1340030497617; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:41:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.66.106] ([80.253.27.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hm7sm27567233lab.12.2012.06.18.07.41.35 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FDF3E1E.8040100@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:41:34 +0400 From: Budnev Vladimir User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rees References: <4FDF2DCA.2020105@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (Free 7.2) "su -l" didnt prompt password.Is it possbile? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:41:39 -0000 18.06.2012 18:32, Chris Rees ???????: > > > On Jun 18, 2012 2:34 PM, "Budnev Vladimir" > wrote: > > > > Hello everyone. > > We'v noticed some strange situation. After reboot and login, system > didn't ask for password while switchig with su -l. > > > > In details, there was root login from terminal and one from ssh. > > Terminal login was directly as root(via ip-console), and ssh was as > user, then attemped switch to root with su -l, and there were NO > password request,no prompt at all. At the same time login from > terminal accepted root password, first I thought that means password > wasn't empty, but system even with empty password should print > "Password:"..and that time it was nothing absolultey. > > Empty password behaviour is for no prompt, so what you are seeing is > normal, and means that you did indeed have a empty password. > Interesintg could it be that master.passwd file corrupted (after power shutdown) and fsck corrected in background.. which resulted in such behaviour. The strange thing with possibly empty password is that login from ip-console accepted correct password. So dont sure about empty...It seems like su was accepting any password at that time. > > Check your logs very carefully over the past few weeks to make sure no > one has broken in. > Yeah, seems we are forced to mount disks to another system and check for changes in critical system tools. Argh....and then anyway redeploy system. > > Chris > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 14:43:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B3D4106566C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:43:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@dataix.net) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5E978FC08 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:43:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnm2 with SMTP id m2so4289443ggn.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:43:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=rKYZFQLDZXEubICnBVRx9tej0LnDPzBvsr4rRm7+xE8=; b=QIuOEa2fpobAqc1D2w/lepSzBSdRJ6VoHa5b6yT8iDBFiVOYDYldYAf1fuP/b0no03 vfhpyGj35FVZN7kyXecVN3AS26E9ntABzwWGGN/mPJ59/BdjxGbo8VsZiBCU+48VPW3m VNgUFsipUIreoDHVvVeKE4JekqTAlGpzxCxbE= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-gm-message-state; bh=rKYZFQLDZXEubICnBVRx9tej0LnDPzBvsr4rRm7+xE8=; b=B7bPjaB/VnUo/jv4R8CxoeyeaVeRRasi6NID6guXnS/jFcXwiO1R++l592LAf2NSlX +TOL96yMCPdBl9/0BDZ+q1GyCTYRDOGflY/WSE9uKV6eCKRp/JYsSGwVro6lbinO9uiK GRg9gfWKLLbh5FXP04/xg/Tnkxi7a0jcKsXHtHQNL3VfY0Bs3+RTkLmHhb5xS5nvhycf ygIRVO4AA0PFqBIpAR8fgaxQR5hD8RZzqFtmsdOWS1X7lHi69oMHXEsWAmC94Szo9vU5 j8SoerPQqo6CcPJ+xKVz1naWbK3ZyUOx66JA7YJNy6Is1E2K6JJKpxQhdlWUEbvyuw+p LgvQ== Received: by 10.50.186.196 with SMTP id fm4mr8638321igc.34.1340030581925; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (75-128-120-86.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com. [75.128.120.86]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id pp4sm15953110igb.5.2012.06.18.07.43.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IEgxoY076181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:43:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Received: (from jh@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5IEgxcM076180; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:42:59 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:42:59 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal To: Budnev Vladimir Message-ID: <20120618144259.GB74775@DataIX.net> References: <4FDF2DCA.2020105@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FDF2DCA.2020105@gmail.com> X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmptn2mJo54uKC8kPf+K8mR9W+DxPw9u1HvV05oRpJb5GZj2Cxscr6FvI3IdSDYZlrNnCC2 Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (Free 7.2) "su -l" didnt prompt password.Is it possbile? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:43:03 -0000 On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 05:31:54PM +0400, Budnev Vladimir wrote: > Hello everyone. > We'v noticed some strange situation. After reboot and login, system > didn't ask for password while switchig with su -l. > > In details, there was root login from terminal and one from ssh. > Terminal login was directly as root(via ip-console), and ssh was as > user, then attemped switch to root with su -l, and there were NO > password request,no prompt at all. At the same time login from terminal > accepted root password, first I thought that means password wasn't > empty, but system even with empty password should print "Password:"..and > that time it was nothing absolultey. We even logged out and then su -l > again. > > And It looked such way: > > %su -l > St-serv# > St-serv# exit > %su -l > St-serv# > > We'v been shocked and hurried a bit and changed root password without > /etc/master.passwd backup for explorations. > After chagning password we cant no reprocude such behaviour. > > It's also should be noticed that system was booting after unsafe power > shutdown, and there was fs-check running in background(accroding to > logs), corrected cleared some files(searching by inum resulted to nothing). > > sysctl -a gave such string: > <118>Starting background file system checks in 60 seconds. > <118> > > and in /var/log/messages we could see: > Jun 15 14:57:39 St-serv kernel: em0: link state changed to UP > Jun 15 14:57:49 St-serv login: ROOT LOGIN (root) ON ttyv0 > Jun 15 14:58:47 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1e: 71 files, 11 used, 2538508 > free (84 frags, 317303 blocks, 0.0% fragmentation) > Jun 15 15:02:31 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1f: 264646 files, 1378041 used, > 60368113 free (43545 frags, 7540571 blocks, 0.1% fragmentation) > Jun 15 15:03:31 St-serv su: zimmer to root on /dev/ttyp0 > Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: INCORRECT BLOCK COUNT > I=1931747 (897632 should be 897600) (CORRECTED) > Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: INCORRECT BLOCK COUNT > I=1931748 (1865184 should be 1865120) (CORRECTED) > Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: INCORRECT BLOCK COUNT > I=2284637 (4 should be 0) (CORRECTED) > Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: INCORRECT BLOCK COUNT > I=2284713 (4 should be 0) (CORRECTED) > Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: UNREF FILE I=23557 > OWNER=root MODE=100644 > Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: SIZE=0 MTIME=Jun 9 18:51 > 2012 (CLEARED) > Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: UNREF FILE I=1931319 > OWNER=root MODE=100640 > Jun 15 15:03:43 St-serv fsck: /dev/ad0s1d: SIZE=728 MTIME=Jul 26 17:37 > 2011 (CLEARED) > <...> > > > I'v googled and found only one thread with su didnt'asking for password, > that one was abut jails, but this time we have a 100% garanty that we > didnt put any virtual enviroments. > > So the thing that scares is, mb this is symptop of server rootkit? (We'v > found nothing unusual in logs but it means nothing...) Or there is some > other explanation why su could not ask password? > The only thing I can think of ATM is .. did you recently perform and upgrade from source with this system ? mergemaster ? The reason why I ask is that when doing such things the master.passwd is compared to the default master.passwd which has no passowrd set. If a merge when wrong then there is a possibility that it was set back to defaults by accident. I also see that your system booted up and did a fsck(8). There is a chance that something wierd happened here as well. > > Thanks in advance > > PS Duplicated question to freebsd-questions and freebsd-security because > unsure which one it should be send. > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-security@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-security-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- - (2^(N-1)) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 14:43:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A1641065675 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:43:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vladimir.budnev@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 047298FC1B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:43:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so5386583lbo.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:43:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dBsuVzUGPPXU84CUtlAxvmgZVGBw3J7klUvrZhaIgs4=; b=zfDa2rWf/C7f8EGornQreWiD/y3XGjzFj22BEfufbKnRFP17+QF4ZtKqz4K/0pBZbi ksTlSIOp6mlAtEEk9sHwbrqExXErxdHNxklVPvUbo0n/tvO0f9G1dlQ8Vzs6IKCiTucd VxUSWoPhSCjHWnryzw+fesfcmC1kEKTT9bYEdy/xlSEE1EF5lSV5Py/OgPs0bkeFxTOs 7eSN2tNniPRg5QJHT9q6sQbKGCXg2CV7Vx2V1sQNwd4c2b3bOtUWHDt7Rko3XoqTXJ2w l1uKKgM9Wt/O+j8ovsXYwrBl3t+uc40PSs9ufToSKC8TI4cp+eGT5oFyBBVK9D5hvj1l aAdw== Received: by 10.152.112.34 with SMTP id in2mr14736265lab.6.1340030631964; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.66.106] ([80.253.27.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id sy1sm27572090lab.13.2012.06.18.07.43.50 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FDF3EA4.5050004@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:43:48 +0400 From: Budnev Vladimir User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Tancsa References: <4FDF2DCA.2020105@gmail.com> <4FDF3513.5050909@sentex.net> <4FDF3A22.7030307@gmail.com> <4FDF3D1B.2010408@sentex.net> In-Reply-To: <4FDF3D1B.2010408@sentex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (Free 7.2) "su -l" didnt prompt password.Is it possbile? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:43:53 -0000 18.06.2012 18:37, Mike Tancsa напиŃĐ°Đ»: > On 6/18/2012 10:24 AM, Budnev Vladimir wrote: >> But mb you can point in what case there is possibility to make "su -l" >> without any prompt. > If the uid is 0, you wont need to enter a passwd Yeah i realized that you mean things came that way, but as I mentioned in prev mail, no gid or uid were 0, and we can not reproduce situation after password changing (we DID not changed any other system users) > > ---Mike > > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 15:01:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1BC3106566B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:01:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from blue.seahorse.syndicate@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f42.google.com (mail-qa0-f42.google.com [209.85.216.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 608728FC0C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:01:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qafi31 with SMTP id i31so1258832qaf.15 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:01:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:subject:references:date:to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:from:organization:message-id:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=H/tOhoNgrfATs3xA6OwCDnPutz8T5eEuYlkvbZHA0zo=; b=jBmTnZ5t55oq4Ny7D5C7MRL/J0d4EmbHYGoq0HeDaHtr48u4Wj1vPgz36rQKBTyBCX +u5TzeKlCxU7c4w0bTizCILUeYbC5SG8Xg49mFHp3uu/6or4gmkXmPv31/+bwDIcDNcH /3fsYART0dSYvptdp/O/2fbEl4LuYZcMY0NN4NAeGvCRj7q8/w+jsVdX3O7LjIftUYsT mmw7LUEMOab4R4/rSCcpT07vJbD++9QDAKJ8RBRSGdg58KAa7cbjtszhc2P+6A1BixQX a6BWRx1GF35Czk7+vzwP+PGBiC+NcQKDt7otnB4v5JOPb0ZIBPY/i174W3+hdO8udDTk Ht2Q== Received: by 10.224.216.7 with SMTP id hg7mr27816580qab.3.1340031685821; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blueleafone (pool-72-73-89-38.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net. [72.73.89.38]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bk12sm41772283qab.6.2012.06.18.08.01.24 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes References: Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:01:22 -0400 To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lynn Steven Killingsworth Organization: Blue Seahorse Syndicate Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (Win64) Subject: Fwd: Error in latest KDE4 install attempt X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:01:27 -0000 Hi FreeBSD - I thought someone would probably inspect the files for KDE4 so I would try to install periodically. This morning the error messages were slightly different. While attempting to install qzeitgeist-0.8.0 my machine almost immediately states that moc 4.8.2 has changed too much for these to be compatible. [During verifying qt-something] Then there is a list of items that are 'not in scope' - for instance monitoradaptor or classOrgGnomeZeitgeistDataSourceRegistryInterface. A fetch command for qzeitgeist-0.8.0 is not given so I would not know how to fetch a newer version if I knew the newer version. Which is to say are all the fetch commands from the distfiles directory? Steve ------- Forwarded message ------- From: "Lynn Steven Killingsworth" To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Cc: Subject: Error in latest KDE4 install attempt Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 07:36:20 -0400 Hi FreeBSD - I have just updated my Ports again this morning and I still have the same problem installing KDE4. When verifying libphonon.so in /multimedia/phonon [phonon-4.6.0-1][from the numbers it appears to be KDE4 4.8.4] my machine does not find library qzeitgeist.1 so it begins verifying the install of qzeitgeist-0.8.0 . The installer then determines that this version of qzeitgeist is not compatible. Since the master site seems to be unavailable much of the time how can I determine the tar.gz from the version number so that I may have an for instance //ftp1.freebsd.org/.... to put in the the master site change in the make fetch command? Thanks - Steve -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 15:10:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EBBC1065670 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:10:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brian@brianwhalen.net) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 096338FC08 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:10:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so5422768lbo.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:10:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=JmyGPvyTybSKDbeaWxLbLbrQAra2OijxZNYAd+AGLng=; b=hQDP1VjirlEaPERJwMKs9cDCZmOh9owybUQxU0kFsx+kaIuYkK9I3fXj8wyryxNF42 0tr2u2BE5l5T0oonkQ2waGQT+Tdf3NgcnNvBUI3i2L1BWrVdi9gKA1+O1RhTJuqiUYo5 40TYSGCtGtVcUTaPlkmq+FX/iTNt2Yf4+w9hSRnDA6e4MSEpi1Q7LAmkOtEXaLWfIxQx b6hKo57TRD9YjEMvm3wW87Yb03M5yVw8D2/Nd/NABPHP6/Ja347uWVd09QSM+v3fE1Fl 5e+9BngMgZP+KSjgFUDV0Pv7OQ1/XpajY73U50/TyBmplOwTYANumr+oekriDofJw3yH MZfg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.83.229 with SMTP id t5mr6647145lby.8.1340032218883; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.13.8 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:10:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [174.235.67.74] Received: by 10.114.13.8 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:10:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FDF3A22.7030307@gmail.com> References: <4FDF2DCA.2020105@gmail.com> <4FDF3513.5050909@sentex.net> <4FDF3A22.7030307@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:10:18 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Brian W." To: Budnev Vladimir , FreeBSD Mailing List X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlF2z+1a9ufc5SLsslAcJ7bs4inM5HeUKnTliu+PGP1RB0yhhha2YbQ6Ny+Wk7J9s5+1BTe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: (Free 7.2) "su -l" didnt prompt password.Is it possbile? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:10:20 -0000 I have only seen thuis after a source upgrade where mergemaster wants to remove the passwd. Has a source upgrade been done recently? Brian On Jun 18, 2012 7:26 AM, "Budnev Vladimir" wrote: > 18.06.2012 18:02, Mike Tancsa =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB: > >> On 6/18/2012 9:31 AM, Budnev Vladimir wrote: >> >>> And It looked such way: >>> >>> %su -l >>> >> Before you enter this command, post the output of >> id >> > Unfortunately, we can not flashback or reproduce that step now, cause we'= v > hurried and changed root password to avoid such strange "free logins". An= d > changing it back didnt change a thing. It was...and't went. We had only > buffered console output :( > But mb you can point in what case there is possibility to make "su -l" > without any prompt. I suppose you mean that user has gid=3D0 or smthng li= ke > that but it hasn't. And as i mentioned changin root password to another a= nd > backwards doesn't allow to reproduce discribed behaviour. > >> >> ---Mike >> >> >> > ______________________________**_________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/**mailman/listinfo/freebsd-**questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-** > unsubscribe@freebsd.org " > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 15:27:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D2061065670; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:27:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bah@bananmonarki.se) Received: from feeder.usenet4all.se (1-1-1-38a.far.sth.bostream.se [82.182.32.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D5C8FC0A; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:27:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kw.news4all.se (c80-217-70-175.bredband.comhem.se [80.217.70.175]) by feeder.usenet4all.se (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5IFRJv6036577; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:27:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from bah@bananmonarki.se) Message-ID: <4FDF4879.9040509@bananmonarki.se> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:25:45 +0200 From: Bernt Hansson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120607 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Budnev Vladimir References: <4FDF2DCA.2020105@gmail.com> <4FDF3E1E.8040100@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4FDF3E1E.8040100@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Chris Rees Subject: Re: (Free 7.2) "su -l" didnt prompt password.Is it possbile? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:27:28 -0000 On 2012-06-18 16:41, Budnev Vladimir wrote: > The strange thing with possibly empty password is that login from > ip-console accepted correct password. So dont sure about empty...It > seems like su was accepting any password at that time. That is the behavior with an empty password. The login would accept any password. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 15:27:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FBD11065678 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:27:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C538FC0C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:27:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IFQpH4049101; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:26:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IFQi9s048946; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:26:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:26:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Subhro Sankha Kar In-Reply-To: <2E5AA9E9-4A5B-49C4-B05D-0188F85C6163@80386.org> Message-ID: References: <4FB80D3E.8020308@gmx.de> <2E5AA9E9-4A5B-49C4-B05D-0188F85C6163@80386.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:26:58 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "lokadamus@gmx.de" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: openoffice doesn't work - any ideas? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:27:40 -0000 >> all description i found is that deleting .openoffice* from $HOME fixes it. it doesn't. i even created new user with no leftover any config files and still same. > > Are your ports up to date? Also, did you apply any funky compile time flags? yes and no. But i found the answer. when i use xdm as login manager (my favourite) it happens. when gdm or kdm - it does not. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 15:35:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6842106566C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:35:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96ABD8FC12 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:35:06 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Cc:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=WUZjQX7v0Thx+VMKwav+PW4W4VLsp/HnCmcCqkkASqo=; b=Lz2FNlnfk0mui+svNTn9mbIU/J/GPNbHbuCZL36/pIVvn4oxAj4nvRZeeiipvgeNS4AqQdzxu233Ytlfr1tHvEPTxtMFMgTTtdCDzrqxCd3bAT55CVNsLaTX05ByCchU; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgdym-000Obu-CL; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:35:05 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340033693-94480-94479/5/2; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:34:53 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:34:53 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:35:06 -0000 On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:13:05 -0500, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> >> Clang is consistently faster at compiling than GCC and it is very clean >> and modular -- not bloated. > > -r-xr-xr-x 3 root wheel 37025016 12 cze 21:46 /usr/bin/clang > > well.. > # ls -la /usr/local/bin/clang -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 14360344 Jun 18 09:57 /usr/local/bin/clang # ls -la /usr/bin/clang -r-xr-xr-x 3 root wheel 32578976 Jun 18 09:12 /usr/bin/clang Looks like FreeBSD's current base build includes debugging/symbols even in -RELEASE. I'm sure there's a reason for this. # ls -la /usr/bin/g++ -r-xr-xr-x 3 root wheel 199208 May 22 14:26 /usr/bin/g++ # ls -la /usr/bin/clang++ -r-xr-xr-x 3 root wheel 32578976 Jun 18 09:12 /usr/bin/clang++ # ls -la /usr/local/bin/clang++ lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 5 Jun 18 09:57 /usr/local/bin/clang++ -> clang FreeBSD and Ports installation method of CLANG differs further here # stat -x /usr/bin/clang File: "/usr/bin/clang" Size: 32578976 FileType: Regular File Mode: (0555/-r-xr-xr-x) Uid: ( 0/ root) Gid: ( 0/ wheel) Device: 85,3144417526 Inode: 23483 Links: 3 Access: Tue May 22 14:27:20 2012 Modify: Mon Jun 18 09:12:53 2012 Change: Mon Jun 18 09:12:53 2012 # stat -x /usr/bin/clang++ File: "/usr/bin/clang++" Size: 32578976 FileType: Regular File Mode: (0555/-r-xr-xr-x) Uid: ( 0/ root) Gid: ( 0/ wheel) Device: 85,3144417526 Inode: 23483 Links: 3 Access: Tue May 22 14:27:20 2012 Modify: Mon Jun 18 09:12:53 2012 Change: Mon Jun 18 09:12:53 2012 Yup, so Ports symlinks (without full path -- this should be fixed) and FreeBSD BASE uses a hardlink. # ldd /usr/local/bin/clang /usr/local/bin/clang: libLLVM-3.0.so => /usr/local/lib/libLLVM-3.0.so (0x80155e000) libthr.so.3 => /lib/libthr.so.3 (0x802ea0000) libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 (0x8030c3000) libm.so.5 => /lib/libm.so.5 (0x8033d3000) libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x8035f4000) libc.so.7 => /lib/libc.so.7 (0x803801000) # ldd /usr/bin/clang /usr/bin/clang: libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 (0x80269e000) libm.so.5 => /lib/libm.so.5 (0x8029ae000) libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x802bcf000) libc.so.7 => /lib/libc.so.7 (0x802ddc000) # ls -la /usr/local/lib/libLLVM-3.0.so -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 27543632 Jun 18 09:53 /usr/local/lib/libLLVM-3.0.so # ls -la /lib/libthr.so.3 -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 101712 May 22 14:26 /lib/libthr.so.3 So from what I can tell LLVM is the monster here, not Clang (which is also of significant size, but it's 2012 so Clang isn't *that* big) None of this seems very relevant, but here's also lines of code via sloccount: # sloccount clang-3.0.src/ Totals grouped by language (dominant language first): cpp: 390865 (82.34%) ansic: 50466 (10.63%) objc: 24970 (5.26%) python: 5874 (1.24%) perl: 1951 (0.41%) lisp: 379 (0.08%) pascal: 123 (0.03%) sh: 86 (0.02%) Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 474,714 # sloccount llvm-3.0.src/ Totals grouped by language (dominant language first): cpp: 468021 (75.80%) asm: 109345 (17.71%) ansic: 13782 (2.23%) sh: 12848 (2.08%) ml: 4716 (0.76%) python: 4351 (0.70%) perl: 2093 (0.34%) pascal: 1566 (0.25%) exp: 389 (0.06%) lisp: 187 (0.03%) csh: 117 (0.02%) Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 617,415 # sloccount gcc-4.2.1/ Totals grouped by language (dominant language first): ansic: 1306440 (43.95%) ada: 584415 (19.66%) java: 583316 (19.62%) cpp: 346603 (11.66%) asm: 37548 (1.26%) f90: 36055 (1.21%) sh: 30089 (1.01%) yacc: 15006 (0.50%) exp: 11218 (0.38%) fortran: 7139 (0.24%) objc: 6921 (0.23%) perl: 3038 (0.10%) pascal: 1194 (0.04%) cs: 879 (0.03%) lex: 857 (0.03%) awk: 732 (0.02%) python: 582 (0.02%) tcl: 271 (0.01%) haskell: 93 (0.00%) lisp: 59 (0.00%) Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 2,972,455 So GCC 4.2.1 is nearly 3 million lines of code, but CLANG+LLVM is sitting at 1.1 million lines of code. Are you sure CLANG is the bloated project? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 15:51:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ED52106566B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:51:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9360F8FC0C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:51:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IFog6f078768; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:50:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IFobC6078765; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:50:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:50:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Felder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:50:48 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:51:35 -0000 > Are you sure CLANG is the bloated project? already posted comparision. your seems like too much propaganda. I don't say clang is just bad, but i prefer real data over hype. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 16:07:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6DBC106566C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:07:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88A378FC18 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:07:21 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=HeZYxLsUSiNnTsz7bvJbVNjgSb+sWnLYbJLJJLiG+1o=; b=oxS41y0/XEMumwvyBR9UUPsuCVVdgjcshksmRzYt2D1quRceUU17ItNmi4deZZk9C0alG5brgFBj0yLHVLsIcpWDZDJoxbGqQmpBIOy3oMKAHPBNksQpIzzuRsSso4Lg; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SgeU0-00009I-9A; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:07:21 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340035630-94480-94479/5/3; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:07:10 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:07:10 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:07:21 -0000 On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:50:37 -0500, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > I don't say clang is just bad, but i prefer real data over hype. This is the most memorable and impacting set of graphs that I remember. I haven't followed the data much since. http://clang.llvm.org/performance-2008-10-31.html Now imagine having to rebuild projects constantly during your dev cycle. The time savings is going to add up quick. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 16:38:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9E60106566C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:38:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F8448FC15 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:38:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IGbtYY003001; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:37:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IGbtkh002998; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:37:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:37:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Felder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:37:56 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:38:11 -0000 >> I don't say clang is just bad, but i prefer real data over hype. > > This is the most memorable and impacting set of graphs that I remember. I > haven't followed the data much since. > > http://clang.llvm.org/performance-2008-10-31.html > > Now imagine having to rebuild projects constantly during your dev cycle. The > time savings is going to add up quick. still not read my mail where i actually compared it in real. or don't want? I really don't care about cool graphs but at facts for me as a USER (not developer) of C compiler. And the facts are: Lots of worktime were spent to make new C compiler from scratch and this resulted with thing 5 times larger, working at similar speed and producing similar code to GCC that is already considered bloat. Not something to be proud about. That's truth. and truth is the only thing i do care about. I leave hype and propaganda and cool graphic bars that shows a really not important part of C compiler performance - code parsing and generating unoptimized code (-O0). The truth is sad. Starting from fresh and not being able to beat 25-year old bloated gcc is just funny. That's my view - as a final "consumer", not developer. My view is that bloatware is replaced by another bloatware, which - because of it's young age - have greater future potential of bloat than GCC. This tens or hundreds of thousands of work-hours could be spent far better by getting latest gcc available on GPLv2 licence and start from there, just improving it. GNU communist licence for C compiler is not bad at all (contrary to other software). From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 16:44:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E38D11065672 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:44:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3D5C8FC14 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:44:27 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:Content-Type; bh=jC1Cy2BmGhTb2byzGKRHalSccAxHSND9lt5fyRR7q1M=; b=d3w5A/PBMPgHZ2CRpJPrOo4JbB+K0XWCYz9UVBxvXWbgH3x65EJfM70Y+Irk30Ea49PSNljPfrlIaqvCGz2EhuhYH3ZQzzvp+5Ci8+4R7pgLlIk0Sxud+8XWCNDUOzhq; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgf3u-0001pf-5A; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:44:27 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340037856-94480-94479/5/6; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:44:16 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:44:16 -0500 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:44:28 -0000 On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:37:55 -0500, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > This tens or hundreds of thousands of work-hours could be spent far > better by getting latest gcc available on GPLv2 licence and start from > there, just improving it. We already have the latest available with GPLv2, which is very far behind and it requires GCC codebase experts to make any changes at all. This is equivalent to letting any random coder make major changes to OpenSSL -- you simply cannot afford to risk it. Yes, I noticed you showed a few benchmarks where Clang was slower. It's bound to be a bit slower with some test cases at first -- they're rounding out the features before going back for major optimizations. It won't be long and it will be sufficiently on par if not exceeding GCC's capabilities. Writing a compiler is no trivial task, and they've built the right framework and have a very active community. Listen, Apple has a MAJOR investment in Clang/LLVM. They simply would not allow major across-the-board speed regressions to happen during the release of iOS or OSX. They're going to throw tons of time and money to make it destroy GCC and target any ARCH they have the slightest interest in. Clang has a very bright future, so don't be so discouraged. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 16:46:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E8CE1065672 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:46:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70B048FC18 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:46:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IGkkGV028658; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:46:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IGkkFE028655; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:46:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:46:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Felder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:46:47 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:46:55 -0000 > > We already have the latest available with GPLv2, which is very far behind and > it requires GCC codebase experts to make any changes at all. This is > equivalent to letting any random coder make major changes to OpenSSL -- you > simply cannot afford to risk it. so not doing anything and just spent that time drinking beer seems to be better. Anyway "far behind" gcc is roughly as good as "leading edge" clang. Actually - lots of time spend and zero gain. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 16:56:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F546106564A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:56:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C5768FC0A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:56:34 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=oHvR3EOxN5HBb0LOKEUcE/UMg9f76Gr6WPPGKDMA+9A=; b=sy3g8ILSCLxClfCr7m18413kbmG6Yb6IovbK4Kxxd6KaSYV7TZM5jwryGKJwff1mslbMZzw934pxQifCoA2FcgIvQt5O+hL8jnsbCkUndKdTBRBf7Zz3FLMODMZ1QJ0V; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SgfFe-0002RQ-1P; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:56:33 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340038584-94480-94479/5/7; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:56:24 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:56:23 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:56:34 -0000 Please stop asking for instant gratification; you won't have it no matter how loud you yell. The Clang decision is far-reaching and gives numerous advantages to the FreeBSD platform. It's also not been a waste of time; you're implying that the FreeBSD devs have spent thousands of hours hacking away at Clang which is far away from the fact. We're simply building upon their work, testing Clang on the codebase (and finding bugs GCC was hiding!!), and reporting any issues upstream which get fixed very very quickly. If you want to recompile everything with lang/gcc (4.6.3) and the latest binutils go right ahead, but don't expect support when things go horribly pear-shaped. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 17:21:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE6AE1065672 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:21:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joe.gain@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com (mail-wi0-f178.google.com [209.85.212.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62D0A8FC0A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:21:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhn6 with SMTP id hn6so1685025wib.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:21:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=OjyXGuJNNRcQau7Bsy0LImV5SJiz+bzQovll1i3Beq8=; b=ukQGuZZaJKqyQH2gG/LEHeLC0CZYyK3NVtsR8GI6icqdYcQm+Pezr+O9TgaCQoVrr+ L8bd1dA3I/uFgJ00w5QPZYTz7Eq5OWLp6TN/NTjYOkZ04BzvjyJQrZk2ancZ4VL3u4PI a/XoV+X3BVSe1xQ5VjR3l6Lu3Q25axh7kJoyTSbkG9QfzrP90YsQauvnO91eMr3bZDOD LwquINu0hpTyXqdBkvsD9Hami/CPCTq6+8daEazmMQ1X+5l6Ztqg1arSoid8c8z4uYvo Qa/w7DvVQ8gMOxXB7raVALjKrZGo5cthdf4nWnSkGFKLC5TScO8ic7P77+EecJDKk1t+ 41Rg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.80.74 with SMTP id p10mr25775063wix.10.1340040066112; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.220.96 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:21:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:21:05 +0200 Message-ID: From: Joe Gain To: Mark Felder Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:21:07 -0000 On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Mark Felder wrote: > Please stop asking for instant gratification; you won't have it no matter > how loud you yell. The Clang decision is far-reaching and gives numerous > advantages to the FreeBSD platform. It's also not been a waste of time; > you're implying that the FreeBSD devs have spent thousands of hours hacking > away at Clang which is far away from the fact. We're simply building upon > their work, testing Clang on the codebase (and finding bugs GCC was > hiding!!), and reporting any issues upstream which get fixed very very > quickly. > > If you want to recompile everything with lang/gcc (4.6.3) and the latest > binutils go right ahead, but don't expect support when things go horribly > pear-shaped. Clang is a great set of compiler tools. If you are only a user, as you suggest, than you shouldn't be compiling anything, just running binaries. If you are using a compiler, than you may not be a developer, but you aren't just a user. In any case, if you're not developing, like me, you don't really get a say-- well, you do, but probably nobody is listening. http://www.drdobbs.com/cpp/240001128 > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- joe gain jacob-burckhardt-str. 16 78464 konstanz germany +49 (0)7531 60389 (...otherwise in ???) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 17:31:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48E8C1065673 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:31:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lumiwa@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC0F18FC17 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:31:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnm2 with SMTP id m2so4509625ggn.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:31:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=A3U8WxDi4zj3OK75LJQQyjOawM5XfegnCbCjykZF3HM=; b=0DbtAKuxCQ1LQCeIsR88Ix+wphUWS8J/CpiGaCWC8NaCxL/fX53r/j6ZWSW2quNtqn BNT7QtsE7GQM4lieMvoUMXVk1PR0nApglYXO/WZ8NiEy/if/mfWm+yqPugC9QB04Dy/t Zw2TgX0hJBAW0scEkprSFSOEKQmUKL1qxZWLpvna92lfkGT9Sn7QnRrC0DObU6kxwvg1 vbt4kfjgcEuWreVf1ELfJzVHKWx2sywcK6X71DtnKNKE0u6kXfEt6cZgfO52iBGouTz5 svJ3Q6bHZVcL2RlxS7hwPoWt9xMcs7rW/o1LzwFn0x9O2Ip/oODLXYmudkm/6u0Zew+0 urQw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.7.72 with SMTP id h8mr16575595oea.33.1340040708451; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.48.130 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:31:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:31:48 -0500 Message-ID: From: Franci Nabalanci To: Joe Gain Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , Mark Felder , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:31:49 -0000 Apple had no problem using a GPL v2 licensed compiler. It looks like they have a huge problem using a GPL v3 licensed compiler. On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Joe Gain wrote: > On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Mark Felder wrote: > > Please stop asking for instant gratification; you won't have it no matter > > how loud you yell. The Clang decision is far-reaching and gives numerous > > advantages to the FreeBSD platform. It's also not been a waste of time; > > you're implying that the FreeBSD devs have spent thousands of hours > hacking > > away at Clang which is far away from the fact. We're simply building upon > > their work, testing Clang on the codebase (and finding bugs GCC was > > hiding!!), and reporting any issues upstream which get fixed very very > > quickly. > > > > If you want to recompile everything with lang/gcc (4.6.3) and the latest > > binutils go right ahead, but don't expect support when things go horribly > > pear-shaped. > > Clang is a great set of compiler tools. If you are only a user, as you > suggest, > than you shouldn't be compiling anything, just running binaries. If you are > using a compiler, than you may not be a developer, but you aren't just a > user. > > In any case, if you're not developing, like me, you don't really get a > say-- well, > you do, but probably nobody is listening. > > http://www.drdobbs.com/cpp/240001128 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > -- > joe gain > > jacob-burckhardt-str. 16 > 78464 konstanz > germany > > +49 (0)7531 60389 > > (...otherwise in ???) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 18:28:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69F88106566C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:28:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 261A98FC08 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:28:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5IISbt7013745; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:28:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:28:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206181828.q5IISbt7013745@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, lenzi.sergio@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <1340025609.95799.4.camel@z6000.lenzicasa> Cc: Subject: Re: libc version X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:28:35 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 18 08:21:38 2012 > From: Sergio de Almeida Lenzi > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:20:09 -0300 > Subject: libc version > > Hello... > > I upgrade the server from version 8.2 to 8.3, and rebuild all packages.. > it all works... > > Then I installed a binary package (8.3) in an old 8.2 ... > every package works... gnome, nautilus, wget.... about 800 of them > the only one that does not work is postgesql84-server > when I try to run it it I got the message: > /libexec/ld-elf.so.1: /lib/libc.so.7: version FBSD_1.3 required > by /usr/local/bin/postgres not found > > seems that only postgres is check for the libc version??? INCORRECT. Postgres is jjust the only one of those programs that _requires_ a 'minimum' version level that is newer than the one installed. > is there a compile switch to check for that??? No. > Of course, if I compile postgres in the 8.2 or upgrade to 8.3 it > works... Naturally. "do it right and it will work'. The required _minimum_ version of a runtime library is specified in the program source code -- because it uses features that did not exist in any version prior to that one. There is *NO* way to tell _at_compile_time_ what version of a runtome library will be present when the program is executed. The 'compiled on 8.3' Postgres binary requires a newer version of libc than exists in 8.2. Compile on 8.2 and it builds using diferent code that does not require the newer libc feature. hence the 8.2-compiled code works on 8.2. The solution to your problem, as you found, is to _not_ use 'more current' binaries in 'down-rev' environments. "upward compatibility" is almost always present in a package. "backward compatibility" is *always* a crap-shoot. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 18:32:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E12D81065672 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:32:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC2D8FC22 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:32:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5IIWltv013775; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:32:47 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:32:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206181832.q5IIWltv013775@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: mike@sentex.net, vladimir.budnev@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <4FDF3A22.7030307@gmail.com> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (Free 7.2) "su -l" didnt prompt password.Is it possbile? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:32:39 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 18 09:25:32 2012 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:24:34 +0400 > From: Budnev Vladimir > To: Mike Tancsa > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: (Free 7.2) "su -l" didnt prompt password.Is it possbile? > > 18.06.2012 18:02, Mike Tancsa напиŃĐ°Đ»: > > On 6/18/2012 9:31 AM, Budnev Vladimir wrote: > >> And It looked such way: > >> > >> %su -l > > Before you enter this command, post the output of > > id > Unfortunately, we can not flashback or reproduce that step now, cause > we'v hurried and changed root password to avoid such strange "free > logins". And changing it back didnt change a thing. It was...and't went. > We had only buffered console output :( > But mb you can point in what case there is possibility to make "su -l" > without any prompt.``o This _will_ happen if one is root, does 'su' to another user. and then another 'su' to root. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 18:33:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E1E106564A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:33:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD578FC08 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:33:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IIXOiV095404; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:33:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IIXJGL095367; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:33:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:33:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Franci Nabalanci In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:33:24 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Mark Felder , Joe Gain , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:33:38 -0000 > > pear-shaped. > > Clang is a great set of compiler tools. If you are only a user, as you suggest, as i suggested - i am a user of compiler. i do compile my own programs, as well as programs from ports. and i hate just telling something is white while it is at most grey. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 18:34:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07AC7106564A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:34:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6983A8FC1F for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:34:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IIYR9u095973; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:34:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IIYMQg095955; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:34:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:34:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Felder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:34:27 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:34:36 -0000 > Please stop asking for instant gratification; you won't have it no matter how > loud you yell. gratification???? Seems like you ask for it. > The Clang decision is far-reaching and gives numerous > advantages to the FreeBSD platform. for example what? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 18:07:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BB7B106566B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:07:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from demelier.david@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE3A8FC1C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:07:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so1941989eek.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:07:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5obh139rSsjqoz2pF/mt9jh4+/aUF9yPRGEPHcP8c8o=; b=vxdWp8RAunA9CNhzsjn0rT0pmGEnYDYoqEfw11QAWmZ0rKWzfdqBybpyLSlohtP8dH 0KdpqFmVqh1wttK7gwdwekoonz/S8cP9nkNhwXKTgqj5UcyDz1xIuE6KxjKYiKdAVPkY nnjB4DNpWQj9+C91mw3EeApJzb6R86eILmZqPQjDGalK8LbtIr7QWvVZZPDKOhFc+De4 6TfppDCYUMzyk+LYMLZ5DXi4BMNEnMP1+sDkTVQycioMmNSMxJyoAQmEL56u0Tzx21Fw ADrArCbLwfBSJ7HlT+6TonjlK9+UAtyTAEAQUGVvV66hC0oE1F4OwguakOCX+1jTjZ+r 8K6Q== Received: by 10.14.47.138 with SMTP id t10mr3656709eeb.133.1340042837973; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Groseille.malikania.fr (197.21.102.84.rev.sfr.net. [84.102.21.197]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a16sm64702311eeg.0.2012.06.18.11.07.16 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FDF6E58.2050204@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:07:20 +0200 From: David Demelier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120602 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernt Hansson References: <4FDA0B5E.4090901@gmail.com> <4FDAAF5E.4040500@gmail.com> <4FDAECF8.4080007@gmail.com> <4FDB1BB0.8060800@bananmonarki.se> In-Reply-To: <4FDB1BB0.8060800@bananmonarki.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:51:56 +0000 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No surround sound with Creative SB Live! card X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:07:26 -0000 On 15/06/2012 13:25, Bernt Hansson wrote: > On 2012-06-15 10:06, David Demelier wrote: >> On 15/06/2012 05:43, Edward M wrote: >>> On 06/14/2012 09:03 AM, David Demelier wrote: >>>> I have an old SB Live! card with a 5.1 speaker set, but i can't get >>>> sound from center and rear speakers with mplayer. >>>> >>>> I'm using the snd_emu10kx driver and when I try to play a DVD I get >>>> sound only through the front speakers (and LFE) like a 2.1 >>>> >>>> Adding -channels 6 to the mplayer args does not help. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>> >>> Sounds like the DVD surround audio is encoded in AC-3 Dolby Digital or >>> DTS. So a decorder is needed. >>> >> >> That's what mplayer says: >> >> ========================================================================== >> >> Opening audio decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg/libavcodec audio decoders >> AUDIO: 48000 Hz, 6 ch, s16le, 448.0 kbit/9.72% (ratio: 56000->576000) >> Selected audio codec: [ffac3] afm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg AC-3) >> ========================================================================== >> >> AO: [oss] 48000Hz 6ch s16le (2 bytes per sample) >> >> What do you mean by "a decoder is needed"? > > Have you tried vlc or xine? Seen in multimedia/mplayer/Makefile.shared: CONFIGURE_ARGS= --cc="${CC}" \ [..snip..] --disable-liba52 \ That's probably why mplayer won't play surround sound, I'll try with VLC tonight. Cheers, -- David Demelier From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 18:52:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A26EB106566C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:52:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lenzi.sergio@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56B308FC12 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:52:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnm2 with SMTP id m2so4604195ggn.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:52:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:from:to:in-reply-to:references:disposition-notification-to :content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer; bh=smBzqlWvjH60fJEVEugC6lDw1O5rH8ITOurvU9rHK1Y=; b=bfeBGP+IKl/WNaOs9n3j2/yCP1ceNYGUU+WDn+6cQYDOspibHCrK9E5KuTTKAOdl25 CoXRnHB56msOiWlbXUh3bjkBOxM8Uf6Gr9FGIpmFta8H//je5rt01T0DeazDCcXo2/6Y PEm+/9M5ZsFemK4PAHeNu/9LSaNO5Mkjy/QkHTCNIyigR+f4Ta4j+M73Gy/DDdtyvAnP 7Tlj2VVlrDRyZpv+sgQY5/3bEoxCOu9zqv7ZEfKm/LUNqL/Ytg5/ZEZ4VtAM6vTEXiKI G2lxwGDn/dCAkZ7QRO91QbnMgouoAGT6R5JfNAWMSNplJXSOtgLOhn+BgxB70FVg7Yx8 boKA== Received: by 10.236.200.199 with SMTP id z47mr1343132yhn.82.1340045562939; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.6.230] ([201.21.143.8]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e19sm31092670ann.10.2012.06.18.11.52.40 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:52:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Sergio de Almeida Lenzi To: Robert Bonomi , freebsd-questions In-Reply-To: <201206181828.q5IISbt7013745@mail.r-bonomi.com> References: <201206181828.q5IISbt7013745@mail.r-bonomi.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:52:38 -0300 Message-ID: <1340045558.720.20.camel@z6000.lenzicasa> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: libc version X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:52:49 -0000 Ok thank you for your answer... the "problem" is in the postgres code and not in a compile switch or something like that... I will upgrade all my 8.2 to 8.3... systems to do this, I build an 8.3 from ground zero, and than do a rsync from this one to the others, directories: /usr/obj /usr/src than... on each target, a make installworld installkernel should do the upgrade... Any comments?? Sergio From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 18:27:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5757106566C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:27:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from demelier.david@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EF258FC1B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:27:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so1949222eek.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:27:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9Tmj7RkJcHScDWD4EQxr49Q/tVkccT4dG3QpqH98nPc=; b=RZr2Pi1lq5RuJEw68QSXnEJDEsdhDk7/8i8bLOfXK9UVW7Zxb6MY9Xk+88LvD4BiRz fQnV3bLI3zSbSrA0xjO8LTFeAIs9bL+LdT4k8ngsKkcgUCSLtySsdDPPsP0bIIzjmwPq nm5yyc4apJsk/Oo8K7Efa9ba0HoqlZrPQy3/43JB18G4ftScI8i8GMrWwEMfbNLm7duN SJEcCtEUGwazgOziaPiOIWnKEt89GMgpxdvVeXgutMM9306Ff0+y4lwVZnKTpqqfNTK/ DSzcWbZos2E9kyIfPztAFjj21NiATc6Jjl+dTb+RwVKjFsANfMjoioYTAFNXDieAHDAr Z28Q== Received: by 10.14.187.138 with SMTP id y10mr1786969eem.83.1340044069202; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Groseille.malikania.fr (197.21.102.84.rev.sfr.net. [84.102.21.197]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h53sm64915402eea.1.2012.06.18.11.27.47 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:27:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FDF7326.1080201@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:27:50 +0200 From: David Demelier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120602 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernt Hansson References: <4FDA0B5E.4090901@gmail.com> <4FDAAF5E.4040500@gmail.com> <4FDAECF8.4080007@gmail.com> <4FDB1BB0.8060800@bananmonarki.se> In-Reply-To: <4FDB1BB0.8060800@bananmonarki.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:57:33 +0000 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No surround sound with Creative SB Live! card X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:27:50 -0000 On 15/06/2012 13:25, Bernt Hansson wrote: > On 2012-06-15 10:06, David Demelier wrote: >> On 15/06/2012 05:43, Edward M wrote: >>> On 06/14/2012 09:03 AM, David Demelier wrote: >>>> I have an old SB Live! card with a 5.1 speaker set, but i can't get >>>> sound from center and rear speakers with mplayer. >>>> >>>> I'm using the snd_emu10kx driver and when I try to play a DVD I get >>>> sound only through the front speakers (and LFE) like a 2.1 >>>> >>>> Adding -channels 6 to the mplayer args does not help. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>> >>> Sounds like the DVD surround audio is encoded in AC-3 Dolby Digital or >>> DTS. So a decorder is needed. >>> >> >> That's what mplayer says: >> >> ========================================================================== >> >> Opening audio decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg/libavcodec audio decoders >> AUDIO: 48000 Hz, 6 ch, s16le, 448.0 kbit/9.72% (ratio: 56000->576000) >> Selected audio codec: [ffac3] afm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg AC-3) >> ========================================================================== >> >> AO: [oss] 48000Hz 6ch s16le (2 bytes per sample) >> >> What do you mean by "a decoder is needed"? > > Have you tried vlc or xine? It does not work with VLC too, do you need to tweak some settings? Cheers, -- David Demelier From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 19:02:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D07106564A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:02:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joe.gain@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C5DC8FC08 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:02:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so4916415wer.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:02:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=md9JlxDiv7XdPQ0uxcX1Zqj9ZYMovLEJos2EVt6ljfY=; b=mGuUX6dv07Ysoz0RqwYJe9SCJsMnnlUfE5HX61fnc52uD9mi3Xk1hkmtZQcGR+UtJY 6awO0nk7elmLUYbfE3KCuz1Qteku3zT4NgW1261H3d+XCPOPNqx8TA5JJuOZh+ASn7ov a75QVqGYbnbuU98yEa6Nf1nEv/ucr9zoIZREdutS60oYdkCik9ZvXjRwuZqD0Vny0p/9 3oF2stqPxh/WyLE1ksXd+9YPKDHIFMiWNtrixvyo8WUx7KlkPV14rEknd6qgurK7hOPq T8sob/B2YTtlWKM/xslc99uhU220mOU6bxvj2xXK6ZukB5HsRFiSxk/7tKMjdIV3h7Sv /oPw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.143.146 with SMTP id l18mr8324119wej.56.1340046147281; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.220.96 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:02:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:02:27 +0200 Message-ID: From: Joe Gain To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Mark Felder , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:02:28 -0000 On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 8:34 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> Please stop asking for instant gratification; you won't have it no matte= r >> how loud you yell. > > > gratification???? =A0Seems like you ask for it. > This might be to gratuitous for most on the list, but diversity is almost reason enough. And I don't mean this is some sort of fashion-way. I think llvm and clang are interesting and serious projects. Actually, to be honest, c programming with clang is really nice, it gives me really nice error messages, which makes debugging easier. I like it for that too. >From a practical point of view, the only negative thing about using clang is that some applications which have been written using gcc won't compile using it, but gcc is also ok. I'm not that interested in saving a few minutes compile time, or bytes of memory. > >> The Clang decision is far-reaching and gives numerous advantages to the >> FreeBSD platform. > > for example what? > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" --=20 joe gain jacob-burckhardt-str. 16 78464 konstanz germany +49 (0)7531 60389 (...otherwise in ???) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 19:17:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 659DD106566B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:17:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gull@gull.us) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22278FC14 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:17:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so5484643wgb.31 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:17:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=rhIWrePsNml5PoZbQZC1Oust91mVo0V6zA9eP5DaHh4=; b=a9stGLHQkSbIPOfJpZKoyVXTAag6ko96gF483NOX8PZl6nW40U/9AqU4R6lGXeAWOl j8JHKgJGVq7Bk5pkC77/oztURySkYzyIv++wLNXVqrcCaNnjzBGyDTiNV1LiNi+1qHP9 0bFdf3Ji/F49cBW2wiqT7aJNPUVL0jvnybGg2Z/V3B0YhHLtf5HwjYid9XTU3LqEOOta dkUoDscIyOaS+0Ko/UQ/Q19wieJoBOBauFRfn1dNCBdjr5vrJDwrIV4MjIot//ANoVbx +KkL79iqcaL7+9SDfInoh4qdvWex3W/EWJXqlQxxuRx3gMV00ObqmHrwMj2KCzpmHFCl EiFw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.142.200 with SMTP id i50mr9702297wej.47.1340047038741; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.73.8 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:17:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [128.95.17.228] In-Reply-To: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:17:18 +0000 Message-ID: From: David Brodbeck To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQll8rgQby+OZ7KRIkqJx/Dd+Hk4iPKFU1J2vA1MxPyj7pAvgDrlxT/n6pI09SeUBnWWlgIA Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:17:20 -0000 On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > And the facts are: Lots of worktime were spent to make new C compiler from > scratch and this resulted with thing 5 times larger, working at similar > speed and producing similar code to GCC that is already considered bloat. > The truth is sad. Starting from fresh and not being able to beat 25-year old > bloated gcc is just funny. Another way of looking at it is after 25 years of optimization GCC is unable to beat a new compiler that's had almost none... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 19:24:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 314E0106564A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:24:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Dave.Robison@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E79A78FC08 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:24:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.17]) by ltcfislmsgpa02.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5IJNjK4027391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:24:13 -0500 Received: from lefty.vicor.com (10.14.152.63) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:24:06 -0500 Message-ID: <4FDF8054.9030906@fisglobal.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:24:04 -0700 From: "Robison, Dave" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:10.0) Gecko/20120209 Thunderbird/10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.63] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.7.7855, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-06-18_04:2012-06-18, 2012-06-18, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: david.robison@fisglobal.com List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:24:21 -0000 GPL runs contrary to the nature and intent of the BSD style license. Free and open software benefits us all. Getting rid of GPL is a good thing, and well worth any (debatable) performance hits. -- Dave Robison Sales Solution Architect II FIS Banking Solutions 510/621-2089 (w) 530/518-5194 (c) 510/621-2020 (f) daver@vicor.com david.robison@fisglobal.com _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 19:29:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3445F1065687 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:29:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4F58FC0A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:29:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IJT1XW052584; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:29:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IJT13a052581; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:29:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:29:01 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Joe Gain In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="2456600518-1865324813-1340047741=:45874" X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:29:01 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Mark Felder , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:29:13 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --2456600518-1865324813-1340047741=:45874 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT >> >> gratification????  Seems like you ask for it. >> > > This might be to gratuitous for most on the list, but diversity is almost > reason enough. And I don't mean this is some sort of fashion-way. I > think llvm and clang are interesting and serious projects. never told otherwise. i just try to do what is really needed - something like "mythbusters" would help greatly here. clang is very good C compiler, but JUST NOT BETTER than gcc. overall it is comparable. at most. wouldn't it be better to say - well, clang is good and OK, and we are not dependent of GNU communist licence v3 which is important. But instead we here lies about incomparably better compiler. No it is not better. it is at the same class, in some respect actually worse. --2456600518-1865324813-1340047741=:45874-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 19:29:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B867A10656A8 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:29:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE6388FC16 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:29:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IJTaLp053408; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:29:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IJTaEB053400; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:29:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:29:36 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: David Brodbeck In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:29:36 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:29:40 -0000 >> bloated gcc is just funny. > > Another way of looking at it is after 25 years of optimization GCC is > unable to beat a new compiler that's had almost none... none? so why it takes so much time to optimize? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 19:32:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E396A10656D1 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:32:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320B88FC12 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:32:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IJWM8b054233; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:32:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IJWMvX054230; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:32:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:32:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: "Robison, Dave" In-Reply-To: <4FDF8054.9030906@fisglobal.com> Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> <4FDF8054.9030906@fisglobal.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:32:23 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:32:32 -0000 > GPL runs contrary to the nature and intent of the BSD style license. > Free and open software benefits us all. True. GPL is definitely not FREE software. Freedom doesn't have different types. Something is free or it is not free. GPL software is not free as i can not do whatever i want with it. > > Getting rid of GPL is a good thing, and well worth any (debatable) I fully agree. So why all this lies about much higher performance and others? I don't consider CLANG to be a great success. I consider it acceptable replacement of GCC. i just hate hype and lies. ALWAYS. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 20:08:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61DFE106566B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:08:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jakub_lach@mailplus.pl) Received: from sam.nabble.com (sam.nabble.com [216.139.236.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A0D8FC0A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:08:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SgiF6-00085E-Fq for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:08:08 -0700 Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:08:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jakub Lach To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1340050088483-5719484.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4FDF8054.9030906@fisglobal.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:08:09 -0000 That's interesting discussion. I hit some cases where clang produced binaries were clearly faster than those made with latest gcc. But it's far from rule. Where you have found statements that clang is always faster than gcc? >From my perspective, it's almost as good OR better than gcc, with potential for further improvement and nice license, errors etc. Fair enough. -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/Why-Clang-tp5715861p5719484.html Sent from the freebsd-questions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 20:14:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21BEE106564A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:14:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2A3F8FC0A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:14:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5IKEVdQ014212 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:14:31 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:14:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206182014.q5IKEVdQ014212@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:14:23 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 18 11:39:03 2012 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:37:55 +0200 (CEST) > From: Wojciech Puchar > To: Mark Felder > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Why Clang > > >> I don't say clang is just bad, but i prefer real data over hype. > > > > This is the most memorable and impacting set of graphs that I remember. I > > haven't followed the data much since. > > > > http://clang.llvm.org/performance-2008-10-31.html > > > > Now imagine having to rebuild projects constantly during your dev cycle. The > > time savings is going to add up quick. > > still not read my mail where i actually compared it in real. or don't > want? > > I really don't care about cool graphs but at facts for me as a USER (not > developer) of C compiler. > > And the facts are: Lots of worktime were spent to make new C compiler from > scratch and this resulted with thing 5 times larger, *YOUR* measurement of sizes was faulty. > working at similar > speed and producing similar code to GCC that is already considered bloat. > The truth is sad. Starting from fresh and not being able to beat 25-year > old bloated gcc is just funny. You _do_ understand that they could not use -any- of the technology implementations in GCC, that they had to redevelop everything from scratch, right? I'm sure that you _also_ are aware that a larger program size does *NOT* necessarily mean 'bloat'. That 'optimizing for speed', which can, and does, result in code that is larger than the unoptimized code, is not 'bloat'. That increasing the clarity of explanations in error messages -- which takes more words -- is not 'bloat'. That additional logic to more precisely identify -what- error occured, and provide a 'better' identification/explanation, compared to just 'parse error near {token}', is not 'bloat'. That writing code for clarity and *maintainability*, even if it incurs some 'cost' in increased size, is not 'bloat'. That doing things the 'long way', rather than the 'short way', because it is necessary for _compete_ compliance with a standard, it not 'bloat'. The fact that this _totally_new_ implementation runs roughly as fast and generates similar quality code to a package that has undergone over two-and-a-half_decades of tweaking and polishing -- well, it is little short of miraculous that it is -that- good, _that_ quickly. Feel free to demonstrate that _you_ can do it better, faster, AND smaller. *WITHOUT* lifting anything from any existing, copyrigthted, code that is.z > That's my view - as a final "consumer", not developer. My view is that > bloatware is replaced by another bloatware, which - because of it's young > age - have greater future potential of bloat than GCC. Obviously, you would then prefer to use a compiler which eliminated the text of all the information/warning/error messages and replaced all those messages with just 'Error: {number}' -- or, even shorter, just 'E{number}' -- which was done in the name of reducing that dreaded 'bloat'. (The reduction in in executable size from this approach can be _surprisingly_ large). Obviously, you would also prefer to use a compiler which 'gave up' and aborted the entire compile after reporting the first fatal error. This will eliminate all that dreaded 'bloat' involved with unwinding the parse state, and all the other 'overhead' stuff you have to do to be able to "sort-of" continue parsing the rest of the source file. > This tens or hundreds of thousands of work-hours could be spent far better > by getting latest gcc available on GPLv2 licence and start from there, That *cannot* be done. There is simply *NO* way to license anything derived from a GPLv3 product under GPLv2. The GPL itself expressly forbids it. Thus, one would have to _start_ with a GPLv2 compiler and *independently* create all the changes/improvements that have been made since that GPLv2 version was released. This is a _far_ bigger project than converting to the use of a different, but _more_standards_compliant_, compiler. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 20:17:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 108331065672 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:17:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E1A8FC1C for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:17:44 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Cc:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=uEeyLFfZjbhpiJ60fR55QgfiOHv9tLuBou6Y8RIN+bY=; b=bVEOasEfQdff06iFNPNh55Cx1YKWfa34S9G1NM5TJXiBjMNnMu83IDrIXoh4S2FkrrqPZzNAcyADXW6NEpgfooLHtL7n2xxMOYo8Yixj1ntbChgN8TKiR994ghroC0b9; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SgiOM-000MB2-86; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:17:44 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340050656-94480-94479/5/8; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:17:36 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:17:35 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:17:45 -0000 On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:29:36 -0500, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > none? so why it takes so much time to optimize? I don't think you understand how compilers work or the concept that new programming methodologies have been developed over the last 25 years, so this conversation is going to get stuck in a loop. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 20:28:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 627E71065674 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:28:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD7E18FC1B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:28:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IKS5E3092595; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:28:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IKS5fq092592; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:28:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:28:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Jakub Lach In-Reply-To: <1340050088483-5719484.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: References: <4FDF8054.9030906@fisglobal.com> <1340050088483-5719484.post@n5.nabble.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:28:05 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:28:15 -0000 > That's interesting discussion. > > I hit some cases where clang produced binaries were > clearly faster than those made with latest gcc. But it's far > from rule. i did few more test on common unix tools, or my programs and results are that by average there are just as fast within 1% range. by average it is just like gcc both im compiling speed and execution speed. > Where you have found statements that clang is always > faster than gcc? from that mailing list - mostly from mark fedler. He even showed me some nice graphs to "prove" it - graphs showed speed of -O0 compilation. > >> From my perspective, it's almost as good OR better > than gcc, with potential for further improvement and > nice license, errors etc. Fair enough. actually good licence is for me the only adventage over gcc. But yes - it is great adventage. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 20:30:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 095A2106564A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:30:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7238D8FC19 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:30:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IKUOui094480; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:30:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IKUNCC094477; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:30:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:30:23 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Robert Bonomi In-Reply-To: <201206182014.q5IKEVdQ014212@mail.r-bonomi.com> Message-ID: References: <201206182014.q5IKEVdQ014212@mail.r-bonomi.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:30:24 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:30:28 -0000 >> scratch and this resulted with thing 5 times larger, > > *YOUR* measurement of sizes was faulty. be more exact. >> old bloated gcc is just funny. > > You _do_ understand that they could not use -any- of the technology > implementations in GCC, that they had to redevelop everything from > scratch, right? even stated this. > I'm sure that you _also_ are aware that a larger program size does *NOT* > necessarily mean 'bloat'. of course. really i can write programs. and really - i don't understand all this fuss about "better error reporting". Really i don't have problems to read gcc error messages when i compile my programs. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 20:31:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12662106566B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:31:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 723E08FC15 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:31:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5IKVKgL097658; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:31:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5IKVKhL097655; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:31:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:31:20 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Felder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <4FCF9C07.2000607@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:31:21 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:31:32 -0000 > >> none? so why it takes so much time to optimize? > > I don't think you understand how compilers work or the concept that new > programming methodologies have been developed over the last 25 years, so this > conversation is going to get stuck in a loop. Right. You just behave as defender of CLANG people that will not be paid because of not really good work. but it is free project isn't it? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 21:00:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62D371065670 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:00:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy7-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy7.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 248E58FC0A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:00:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 4659 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jun 2012 21:00:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy7.bluehost.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2012 21:00:50 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=EivkN333sGEm+f6CiNGQj7W7BaTbLnpsGAmwGi0pKno=; b=D+ExI6DdqgLZqhz2B2d5ClMND/jU63rfNzZdFW7hie9ycf7CU2iiqf0O4Cve5av8Cr/KsEop8KcCihxzVbtvHj0wdQV88ev5NGXBevfqk7FzXcZ8Jc+1csB7RmHheggo; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=60447 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgj45-0008IU-Vn for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:00:50 -0600 Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:00:49 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120618210049.GA2508@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <201206182014.q5IKEVdQ014212@mail.r-bonomi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:00:51 -0000 On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 10:30:23PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >>scratch and this resulted with thing 5 times larger, > > > >*YOUR* measurement of sizes was faulty. > > be more exact. I believe Robert Bonomi (you didn't include attribution for the previous email, I notice) *was* more exact, in that the rest of his email explained what he thought of your glossing over the various factors that might contribute to binary size. I notice you ignored most of it in your response, too. > > > >I'm sure that you _also_ are aware that a larger program size does *NOT* > >necessarily mean 'bloat'. > > of course. really i can write programs. > > and really - i don't understand all this fuss about "better error > reporting". > > Really i don't have problems to read gcc error messages when i > compile my programs. I can generally puzzle out what caused various GCC warning and error messages when trying to compile my own code, given comparison of what's going on in the messages with what's going on in my code and reasoning through the connections between different parts of the code. That sort of thing is required probably 70% of the time, in my experience. With Clang, by contrast, I find that's required only about 20% to 30% of the time. Otherwise, the warning and error messages tend to get me a lot closer to the actual point of failure than GCC. *That* is what "all this fuss about 'better error reporting'" is about. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 21:58:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAECF1065672 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:58:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FFCC8FC17 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:58:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5DCBD5E0.dip.t-dialin.net [93.203.213.224]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5ILvxSK089111; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:58:01 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5ILvkC6086843; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:57:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5ILvKna010233; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:57:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201206182157.q5ILvKna010233@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Mark Felder From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:37:55 +0200." Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:57:20 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:58:29 -0000 > GNU communist licence for C compiler is not bad at all (contrary to other ......^^^^^^^^^ ......^^^^^^^^^ > software). I & many others _Know_ what BSD & FSF licenses are. Don't wwant repeated nonsense about 'communism'. If you didn't subscribe http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-toolchain before the GCC V Clang decision was made, your views now irrelevant. If you still must emit noise about licenses subscribe http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy Best subscribe & follow up about communism to http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat or /dev/null Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 18 22:19:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B18B4106564A for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:19:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D8FD8FC08 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:19:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5DCBD5E0.dip.t-dialin.net [93.203.213.224]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5IMJ8Vo089195; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:19:09 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5IMIvrt086917; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:18:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5IMIPjQ010495; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:18:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201206182218.q5IMIPjQ010495@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Wojciech Puchar From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Mon, 18 Jun 2012 23:57:20 +0200." Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:18:25 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: Mark Felder , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:19:35 -0000 Sorry, my last header wrongly to Mark Felder, & could give the wrong impression. I would like Wojciech Puchar (not Mark F.) to stop banging on about 'GNU communist licence' etc. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 00:50:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD923106566C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:50:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivares14031@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6593F8FC12 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:50:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so5024428yen.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:50:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Ko2DVosMJy0Y71A9E9cjjp01Vs95fIgwfmfgNzAlk74=; b=YJAk9SzlYwxmkCN2jonNDSqZBT/F7HYOiuByBXwX+Trei08J1I7l9MoTZJljZnD2pn 4poEnE2nzSoF4gBzJJMubsZV/QGadH7QkZgA2/MCNmCdyxWqY7UKhk0l8l8bCSxhgVGF /nar1nnowdOSccOH6q3xDFRINDLMP7CRDlTPnpdoNK8n50YDbSlXGTARNuE1XeyBJKJz EoGE00vfCRlBQ2SPUSJ1VnOnTwahDu9ghirbovZVoN+gpHWA70ascFTW+jS5BIn2OAwv ifMCVIxPHZj22ASPdrZnOTALAWwDmEuCfr/gXSnwkYK4WNj2hsEjvKJOXPPajl1NM8bp wh7Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.213.71 with SMTP id nq7mr10091530igc.12.1340067001382; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.112.4 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:50:01 -0500 Message-ID: From: Antonio Olivares To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: converting mpost(ed) files individually to eps X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:50:02 -0000 Dear folks, I am taking a plunge to learning a little bit of metapost. I have found examples page using google. http://www.tlhiv.org/MetaPost/examples/examples.html I want to convert output files individually to eps. I can only convert the first one output say file.1 to file.eps, but when there are more files, ie, file.2, ..., file.10, all the files between .2 and .10 do not get converted/saved to *.eps extension. script called mpost-eps below: =========================================================== $ cat mpost-eps #!/bin/sh MPOST=/usr/local/bin/kertex/mpost GS=/usr/local/bin/gs ERROR="Too few arguments : no file name specified" [ $# -eq 0 ] && echo $ERROR && exit # no args? ... print error and exit # check that the file exists if [ -f $1.mp ] then # if it exists then metapost it,then convert with ghostscript, then remove all the unneeded files $MPOST $1.mp $GS -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -sDEVICE=epswrite -sOutputFile=$1.eps $1.1 # these lines can be appended to delete other files, such as *.out if [ -f $1.log ] then rm *.log fi else # otherwise give this output line with a list of available metapost files echo the file doesnt exist butthead! Choose one of these: ls *.mp fi =========================================================== I run the script $ ./mpost-eps file without *.mp extension. but only one gets converted. I don't know enough shell programming to do something like for i in file.i do $GS -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -sDEVICE=epswrite -sOutputFile=$1.eps $1.i but it does not work correctly. I can change the mpost executable[using kertex by T. Laronde (http://www.kergis.com/en/kertex.html) ] at will as I also have texlive installed by FreeBSD TeXLive Ports by Roman Tartiere(https://code.google.com/p/freebsd-texlive/) , /usr/local/bin/mpost is the executable there, or same one but in metapost executable by default teTeX. Is there a magical incantanation I can use to output all the files to eps and include them in documents either \TeX{}ed or \LaTeX{}ed? Thanks in Advance, Antonio From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 01:10:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED50F1065672 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 01:10:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA72C8FC17 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 01:10:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5J1AorD015312; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:10:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:10:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206190110.q5J1AorD015312@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, olivares14031@gmail.com In-Reply-To: Cc: Subject: Re: converting mpost(ed) files individually to eps X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 01:10:42 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 18 19:50:45 2012 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:50:01 -0500 > From: Antonio Olivares > To: FreeBSD Questions > Subject: converting mpost(ed) files individually to eps > > Dear folks, > > I am taking a plunge to learning a little bit of metapost. I have > found examples page using google. > > http://www.tlhiv.org/MetaPost/examples/examples.html > > I want to convert output files individually to eps. > > I can only convert the first one output say file.1 to file.eps, but > when there are more files, ie, file.2, ..., file.10, all the files > between .2 and .10 do not get converted/saved to *.eps extension. Correct. The script you showd processes a _single_ argument only. Use a 'for loop' to handle multiple files, something like -- for thisfile in file.* do `mpost-eps $thisfile end > > [[ sneck -- copy of script itself ]] > > I run the script > $ ./mpost-eps file > without *.mp extension. but only one gets converted. I don't know > enough shell programming to do something like > for i in file.i do > $GS -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -sDEVICE=epswrite -sOutputFile=$1.eps $1.i You were *close*. what you wanted is (assuming MPOST and GS are defined: for file in {{list or wildcard}} do $MPOST $file $GS -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -sDEVICE=epswrite -sOutputFile=$ile.eps $file.1 end From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 01:30:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AD47106566B for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 01:30:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBFA98FC08 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 01:30:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5J1UQ1C015381; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:30:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:30:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206190130.q5J1UQ1C015381@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, olivares14031@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <201206190110.q5J1AorD015312@mail.r-bonomi.com> Cc: Subject: Re: converting mpost(ed) files individually to eps X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 01:30:17 -0000 > > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:50:01 -0500 > > From: Antonio Olivares > > Subject: converting mpost(ed) files individually to eps > > > > Dear folks, > > > > I am taking a plunge to learning a little bit of metapost. I have > > found examples page using google. > > > > http://www.tlhiv.org/MetaPost/examples/examples.html > > > > I want to convert output files individually to eps. > > > > I can only convert the first one output say file.1 to file.eps, but > > when there are more files, ie, file.2, ..., file.10, all the files > > between .2 and .10 do not get converted/saved to *.eps extension. > > Correct. The script you showd processes a _single_ argument only. > Use a 'for loop' to handle multiple files, something like -- > for thisfile in file.* do > `mpost-eps $thisfile > end > > > > > [[ sneck -- copy of script itself ]] > > > > I run the script > > $ ./mpost-eps file > > without *.mp extension. but only one gets converted. I don't know > > enough shell programming to do something like > > for i in file.i do > > $GS -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -sDEVICE=epswrite -sOutputFile=$1.eps $1.i > > You were *close*. what you wanted is (assuming MPOST and GS are defined: > for file in {{list or wildcard}} do > $MPOST $file > $GS -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -sDEVICE=epswrite -sOutputFile=$file.eps $file.1 > end I may have understood. if it is MPOST that is producing the multiple files, then you want: $MPOST for file in file.* do $GS -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -sDEVICE=epswrite -sOutputFile=$file.eps $file end This will produce a series of files named file.1.eps, file.2.eps, etc. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 02:00:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC114106566C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 02:00:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivares14031@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57F1A8FC0A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 02:00:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so4900517ghb.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:00:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=YFO+SJiI+y2jJzgGweRi0slTzg+MocBzVV8x83Awd1k=; b=ZM1DxkF91eW66DiOAKV+mECGXZN/SyNziGBQX+pwKpGOuqp6+XS76arCU11fW/pv4g SS2YcFJqxBaHYHLIM/KohJ+7r3WVpJfZR1fUtcz30l5JXhDbbO3Zeuy5xVUj251WAcB6 48ALhAF0AS3RfTNaZMap/QMxe1wtYbf4QBpDo9Kgo3IVbwayCw8K4DSCl5NX4077IHUN 92lITF6JJd/mVJGrf2J+/2vKiJnzWrBF90i49B9ha/tgOh5fHfVEMjqnB73GrYrKYvqS dRXxOIiBBBW6wRl1KomER4j20LOsYJKaqpdX/Rk57S2Pj/bW/LSLaj5gkC4o7Ear+aAd weJw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.173.5 with SMTP id bg5mr2303294igc.35.1340071203553; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.112.4 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:00:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201206190130.q5J1UQ1C015381@mail.r-bonomi.com> References: <201206190110.q5J1AorD015312@mail.r-bonomi.com> <201206190130.q5J1UQ1C015381@mail.r-bonomi.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:00:03 -0500 Message-ID: From: Antonio Olivares To: Robert Bonomi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: converting mpost(ed) files individually to eps X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 02:00:04 -0000 On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Robert Bonomi w= rote: >> > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:50:01 -0500 >> > From: Antonio Olivares >> > Subject: converting mpost(ed) files individually to eps >> > >> > Dear folks, >> > >> > I am taking a plunge to learning a little bit of metapost. =A0I have >> > found examples page using google. >> > >> > http://www.tlhiv.org/MetaPost/examples/examples.html >> > >> > I want to convert output files individually to eps. >> > >> > I can only convert the first one output say file.1 to file.eps, but >> > when there are more files, ie, file.2, ..., file.10, all the files >> > between .2 and .10 do not get converted/saved to *.eps extension. >> >> Correct. =A0The script you showd processes a _single_ argument only. >> Use a 'for loop' to handle multiple files, something like =A0-- >> =A0 =A0for thisfile in file.* do >> =A0 =A0 `mpost-eps $thisfile >> =A0 =A0end >> >> > >> > [[ sneck -- copy of script itself ]] >> > >> > I run the script >> > $ ./mpost-eps file >> > without *.mp extension. =A0but only one gets converted. =A0I don't kno= w >> > enough shell programming to do something like >> > for i in file.i do >> > $GS -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -sDEVICE=3Depswrite -sOutputFile=3D$1.eps $1.i >> >> You were *close*. =A0what you wanted is (assuming MPOST and GS are defin= ed: >> =A0 for file in {{list or wildcard}} do >> =A0 =A0$MPOST $file >> =A0 =A0$GS -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -sDEVICE=3Depswrite -sOutputFile=3D$file.ep= s $file.1 >> =A0 end > > I may have understood. =A0if it is MPOST that is producing the multiple f= iles, > then you want: > =A0 $MPOST > =A0 for file in file.* =A0do > =A0 =A0$GS -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -sDEVICE=3Depswrite -sOutputFile=3D$file.eps= $file > =A0 end > > This will produce a series of files named =A0file.1.eps, file.2.eps, etc. I added this to the script: $MPOST $1.mp for file in file.* do $GS -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -sDEVICE=3Depswrite -sOutputFile=3D$file.eps $file end But I get error in line 16: $ ./mpost-eps webfig ./mpost-eps: 16: Syntax error: word unexpected File follows here: mpost-eps: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D $ cat mpost-eps #!/bin/sh MPOST=3D/usr/bin/kertex/mpost GS=3D/usr/bin/gs ERROR=3D"Too few arguments : no file name specified" [ $# -eq 0 ] && echo $ERROR && exit # no args? ... print error and exit # check that the file exists if [ -f $1.mp ] then # if it exists then metapost it,then convert with ghostscript, then remove all the unneeded files $MPOST $1.mp for file in file.* do $GS -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -sDEVICE=3Depswrite -sOutputFile=3D$file.eps $file end #$MPOST $1.mp #$GS -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -sDEVICE=3Depswrite -sOutputFile=3D$1.eps $1.1 # these lines can be appended to delete other files, such as *.out if [ -f $1.log ] then rm *.log fi else # otherwise give this output line with a list of available metapost files echo the file doesnt exist butthead! Choose one of these: ls *.mp fi =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D It would probably be better if insead of file.1.eps, file.2.eps, file.3.eps , ... , fileN.eps to write to file-1.eps, file-2.eps, file-3.eps, ..., file-N.eps. Some friends tell me that the file generated by metapost is already an eps file, that I am only making things difficult :( Thanks for your help & suggestions. Regards, Antonio From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 02:07:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2887106566C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 02:07:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivares14031@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E098FC0C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 02:07:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so5062207yen.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:07:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=zlCZU1kKfAo5XneMQc627CxIc7P4ceCkEl0A2ie4j8c=; b=rfeXcUaR5kfA9b2i097HsSrzYA/xdLdkCH+eui6KO++ZSr2SfBG0Z4g82mCnYqk1YO Ok4srUDwqXSGbY+fUY4lb24G5KZme8UAY7mIk6T25QFwobVZaIb9jPEyBBr6f+YnGc7Q HNMxHHpll/0Jw1INilyoWSAda6ULAu44UHFB2XV2KMKfCQxHnNb+CuTqdhVszf0KHGMa J9ZC9B3fT4g2t4GyUNbCP48iRsqnIZEA6YLXUXPqh5oaGwoZELyvx2A5cp0NdAInX+IO B4Yvf7phB1rLBPLsm2HfuUWqUJf3ZV5WonHbZ2mWbf26CpbWNW4qThs7hV0U4FatKGgt rwwA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.130.68 with SMTP id u4mr6522526ics.17.1340071631002; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.112.4 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:07:10 -0500 Message-ID: From: Antonio Olivares To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: urtw0 wireless device on FreeBSD problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 02:07:12 -0000 Dear Folks, following an excellent guide by W. Block: http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/wireless.html I connected successfully to a wireless network. However, the connection works for a while then drops off. At the end I get a kernel panic and the machine presents press something to avoid shutdown. $ dmesg | grep 'urtw0' urtw0: on usbus3 urtw0: unknown RTL8187L type: 0x8000000 urtw0: rtl8187l rf rtl8225u hwrev none quadcore# tail -f /var/log/messages Jun 18 20:53:22 quadcore wpa_supplicant[515]: CTRL-EVENT-SCAN-RESULTS Jun 18 20:58:29 quadcore wpa_supplicant[515]: CTRL-EVENT-SCAN-RESULTS Jun 18 21:02:36 quadcore su: olivares to root on /dev/pts/0 I will see how I can post pictures to another website and find a way to troubleshoot this. Any ideas? Is there a place where the panics/oops are saved to retrieve them and cut + paste them here? /var/log/, /tmp/ ? Thanks, Antonio From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 03:32:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46941106566C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 03:32:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3A138FC12 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 03:32:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5J3WSb1047389; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:32:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5J3WSWk047386; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:32:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:32:28 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Antonio Olivares In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <201206190110.q5J1AorD015312@mail.r-bonomi.com> <201206190130.q5J1UQ1C015381@mail.r-bonomi.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:32:28 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Robert Bonomi Subject: Re: converting mpost(ed) files individually to eps X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 03:32:29 -0000 On Mon, 18 Jun 2012, Antonio Olivares wrote: > But I get error in line 16: > > $ ./mpost-eps webfig > ./mpost-eps: 16: Syntax error: word unexpected > > for file in file.* do Either put the "do" on the next line, or put a ; before it: for file in file.* ; do From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 04:51:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82FDE106566C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:51:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA85D8FC0A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:51:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5J4p0Sg002034; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:51:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5J4p08u002031; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:51:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:51:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chad Perrin In-Reply-To: <20120618210049.GA2508@hemlock.hydra> Message-ID: References: <201206182014.q5IKEVdQ014212@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120618210049.GA2508@hemlock.hydra> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:51:01 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:51:14 -0000 >> be more exact. > > I believe Robert Bonomi (you didn't include attribution for the previous > email, I notice) *was* more exact, in that the rest of his email > explained what he thought of your glossing over the various factors that > might contribute to binary size. > > I notice you ignored most of it in your response, too. or maybe missed. So please tell me finally what is wrong in measuring speed by measuring time of execution doing same things? What i should measure? time in heavens? > I can generally puzzle out what caused various GCC warning and error > messages when trying to compile my own code, given comparison of what's strange but i don't have a problem - and i always set -Wall when using gcc as 99% of warnings are actually errors. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 04:53:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F5D3106564A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:53:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF0F8FC08 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:53:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5J4r5FD002046; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:53:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5J4r4iK002043; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:53:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:53:04 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: "Julian H. Stacey" In-Reply-To: <201206182218.q5IMIPjQ010495@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: References: <201206182218.q5IMIPjQ010495@fire.js.berklix.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:53:05 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Mark Felder , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:53:15 -0000 > Sorry, my last header wrongly to Mark Felder, & could give > the wrong impression. I would like Wojciech Puchar (not Mark F.) > to stop banging on about 'GNU communist licence' etc. because you don't like facts. Sorry but i like only facts. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 05:17:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C9E106566C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:17:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from blue.seahorse.syndicate@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f42.google.com (mail-qa0-f42.google.com [209.85.216.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 808F58FC08 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:17:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qafi31 with SMTP id i31so1761270qaf.15 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:17:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:organization:subject:to:date:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:from:message-id:user-agent; bh=L661vjvoJgJrNcAOEZiQYY7xKoKYbzFtg7ACK6lD2jY=; b=R+Y96/r4l6P5RGOfH2j3k8NHT26P1l+7cMa/uAzE6O0IpEts9YpOUzxQHOyenbZwv+ B86dbNb5mUwaZcvUbhAKL0w8YhIfIbcZlLM+vma48U1MBHoFEFu8Y0Zt1wou7Nu9tNAS vkbjyDISt7ojRB5gW/n5vxlw0tA/zf8aJ0d27+JRT4pk0UuMsbwrevi4ZBT+l2QHCWR6 k1kSSkl/MHcj8nViAOhSHIKZr5rv9WrEWw5EC2zlIS+vNQCGHEnTSfjNMjTVDM+S453Q Y9T7jpZIrjrcJuMiuIUQqJ3FBLAXY4OphLOb+RvSca5w40HhDDLi4BZ+3kd+5RIRvQi0 XMxA== Received: by 10.224.202.8 with SMTP id fc8mr31487913qab.40.1340083022789; Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:17:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blueleafone (pool-72-73-89-38.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net. [72.73.89.38]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n2sm46205914qap.10.2012.06.18.22.17.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:17:02 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes Organization: Blue Seahorse Syndicate To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 01:17:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lynn Steven Killingsworth Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (Win64) Subject: Error in latest KDE4 install attempt X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:17:03 -0000 Hi FreeBSD - This note does not have the proper running commentary since I get hit from the Internet constantly. The other note on the page is from this past Friday I think. At 12a Tuesday (6/19) I decided to try installing KDE4 again. When I tried to change directory to /x11/kde4 the directory did not exist. I decided to try to install from my FreeBSD 9 disk at this point. In about 10 sec the install told me that it was unable to install 'qt4-svg-4.7.4' I then decided to update my ports collection with portsnap. When the fetch command was downloading the 4 updated metapackages I twice received this error [snapshot is corrupt gnuzip (stdin)] I then tried to change directory to /x11/kde4 thinking that since make is reported to try to fetch the latest files any kde4 would do. I succeeded and started make. The only option was for the 'better diagnostics' library. A bison file was fetched and then the installation began using only files that were found already on my computer. After a good 15 minutes this appeared: /usr/ports/devel/qt4-designer/work/qt-everywhere-opensourse-src-4.8.2/lib/QtDesignerComponents.so: undefined reference to 'QMetaObject: cast (QOject const*) const' Perhaps this helps. Thanks - Steve Hi FreeBSD - I have just updated my Ports again this morning and I still have the same problem installing KDE4. When verifying libphonon.so in /multimedia/phonon [phonon-4.6.0-1][from the numbers it appears to be KDE4 4.8.4] my machine does not find library qzeitgeist.1 so it begins verifying the install of qzeitgeist-0.8.0 . The installer then determines that this version of qzeitgeist is not compatible. Since the master site seems to be unavailable much of the time how can I determine the tar.gz from the version number so that I may have an for instance //ftp1.freebsd.org/.... to put in the the master site change in the make fetch command? Thanks - Steve -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 05:36:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9C4C106564A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:36:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 156FF8FC14 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:36:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5J5a8DT002202; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:36:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5J5a8c4002199; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:36:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:36:08 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Lynn Steven Killingsworth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:36:08 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Error in latest KDE4 install attempt X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:36:13 -0000 > At 12a Tuesday (6/19) I decided to try installing KDE4 again. When I tried > to change directory to /x11/kde4 the directory did not exist. I decided to because it does not exist. /usr/ports/x11/kde4 exist. > try to install from my FreeBSD 9 disk at this point. In about 10 sec the > install told me that it was unable to install 'qt4-svg-4.7.4' > what was a message? > I then decided to update my ports collection with portsnap. When the fetch > command was downloading the 4 updated metapackages I twice received this > error [snapshot is corrupt gnuzip (stdin)] > isn't something (ftp/http proxy) on route corrupting data? i NEVER got such a message. rm -rf /var/db/portsnap and portsnap fetch check if you will get corruption. if so - something must be wrong within your network enviromnent. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 06:47:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B73C1065687 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:47:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vkushnir@bigmir.net) Received: from ex.volia.net (ex.volia.net [82.144.192.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E718FC14 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:47:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from em.volia.net ([82.144.192.9]) by ex.volia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SgsDh-000MDd-8W; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:47:21 +0300 Received: from applying.regime.volia.net ([93.75.139.141] helo=kushnir1.kiev.ua) by em.volia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SgsDh-0006JJ-6i; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:47:21 +0300 Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by kushnir1.kiev.ua (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5J6leh0065854; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:47:40 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from vkushnir@bigmir.net) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:47:40 +0300 (EEST) From: Vladimir Kushnir X-X-Sender: vkushnir@kushnir1.kiev.ua To: Wojciech Puchar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <201206182218.q5IMIPjQ010495@fire.js.berklix.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Volia-Original-IP: 93.75.139.141 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:47:28 -0000 On Tue, 19 Jun 2012, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> Sorry, my last header wrongly to Mark Felder, & could give >> the wrong impression. I would like Wojciech Puchar (not Mark F.) >> to stop banging on about 'GNU communist licence' etc. > > because you don't like facts. No you don't. You like what YOU (and ONLY you) think of as facts (see below). > Sorry but i like only facts. Only facts? Well and good. Do you have any proof GNU is in any way connected to any communist movement? Do you have any facts (NOT living in your head) GPLvX is in any way inspired/based on/even remotely connected to/ ANY communist movement/party/literature? And PLEASE don't push on us all that trash like "obligation to provide sorces"==communism. GPLvX (for any X) do not forbid to make profit out of your software. It just stands again closing of the sources and therefore against infringing of the (totally democratic) human right of having the (vital for somebody) information. So: since you are against GPL means you are communist. Perhaps even stalinist. Period. P.S. If needs be I could prove an opposite. And be quite a bit meaner. P.P.S. Now PLEASE take any moral/political/religious garbage out of this mailing list to chat, advocacy or any other non-technical forum. GPL-vs-BSD, Linux-vs-Windows-vs-BSD-vs-whatever else, Christianity-vs-Buddhism and so on does not belong here. Vladimir. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 06:53:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C3551065674 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:53:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D073B8FC08 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:53:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5J6rrt8005604; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:53:53 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5J6rr9d005601; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:53:53 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:53:53 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Vladimir Kushnir In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <201206182218.q5IMIPjQ010495@fire.js.berklix.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:53:54 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:53:59 -0000 > > No you don't. You like what YOU (and ONLY you) think of as facts (see below). still not explained what is wrong in comparing end results of benchmark and seeing that they are quite same. This is the only meaningful point for me. I live ideology for others. > Only facts? Well and good. Do you have any proof GNU is in any way connected > to any communist movement? Yes. Exactly the same targets and understanding of "freedom". Just Richard Stallman is (fortunately) limited mostly to computing. If you cannot see this - i cannot help you any more. sorry. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 07:17:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3802B106564A; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:17:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@ifdnrg.com) Received: from ifdnrg30.ifdnrg.com (ifdnrg30.ifdnrg.com [193.200.98.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD83E8FC08; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:17:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.20] (188-221-77-161.zone12.bethere.co.uk [188.221.77.161]) (authenticated bits=0) by ifdnrg30.ifdnrg.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5J7HAtl037774; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:17:10 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from paul@ifdnrg.com) Message-ID: <4FE02775.7000109@ifdnrg.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:17:09 +0100 From: Paul Macdonald User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.2; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: munin , ports@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Munin crashing : p5-Net-Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:17:18 -0000 Hi, After a recent upgrade to p5-Net-Server-2.005 on various boxes, I'm finding that munin-node is going down regularly. (Multiple machines, looks to be affected on FreeBSD8.2 and FreeBSD8.3 REL, but not 9.0 machines) It looks related to trying to start on an ipv6 interface ( which is not there) and i suspect this is a default from the perl Net-Server module rather than munin? Jun 19 00:00:01 ifdnrg20 newsyslog[24331]: logfile turned over Pid_file created by this same process. Doing nothing. 2012/06/19-00:00:02 Munin::Node::Server (type Net::Server::Fork) starting! pid(50897) sysctl: unknown oid 'net.ipv6.bindv6only' Resolved [*]:4949 to [::]:4949, IPv6 Resolved [*]:4949 to [0.0.0.0]:4949, IPv4 Binding open file descriptors 2012/06/19-00:00:02 Bad file descriptor at line 298 in file /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.4/Net/Server.pm 2012/06/19-00:00:02 Server closing! shutdown() on unopened socket GEN0 at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.12.4/mach/IO/Socket.pm line 295. shutdown() on unopened socket GEN1 at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.12.4/mach/IO/Socket.pm line 295. Paul. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 07:42:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E19D106564A; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:42:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kenyon@kenyonralph.com) Received: from darwin.kenyonralph.com (darwin.kenyonralph.com [IPv6:2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe93:b0d1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64C8D8FC0A; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:42:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from darwin.kenyonralph.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by darwin.kenyonralph.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B91DE137; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:42:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple; d=kenyonralph.com; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:in-reply-to; s=postfix; bh=3WXTCZbKp3JMswoNrAvVzPm RBhU=; b=eO9TsL60VhH/BxWohVw+4q6AZl09jep7pe6x8Qg+XETv957KQkQTG/Y KSuaRUATR08c/Q2dszT0vYESl8QPVkhU7d/sQ5e4r91jg+Kg0hc75gVgqKW7Z5/r xigSr4PvwPZpwLNXL9f5Azn+Ah17sfuslQKGBsF9LnQx1dBYbKt8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=simple; d=kenyonralph.com; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:in-reply-to; q=dns; s=postfix; b=dOycfsyVbVqKILvfr zYSQOsJ2AtQALX8rhMAhB5wM768xphXI+3nZPtU23RMsw3pzYPXkUmMgg3k/AoSu zQJiynHvWVg3Pez0AiXyLQw5xYOImmeg2/B20OIO5wdcyYFq8k+Y8rep46vA1QrB XEvCe5cDHvcM8WXYmsytlJWX+w= Received: by darwin.kenyonralph.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 135D9E11F; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 02:42:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:42:26 -0700 From: Kenyon Ralph To: Paul Macdonald Message-ID: <20120619074225.GB9940@kenyonralph.com> Mail-Followup-To: Paul Macdonald , munin , ports@freebsd.org, FreeBSD References: <4FE02775.7000109@ifdnrg.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZvvH1QDaOFG4lOZN" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FE02775.7000109@ifdnrg.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: ports@freebsd.org, munin , FreeBSD Subject: Re: [munin-users] Munin crashing : p5-Net-Server X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:42:26 -0000 --ZvvH1QDaOFG4lOZN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2012-06-19T08:17:09+0100, Paul Macdonald wrote: > After a recent upgrade to p5-Net-Server-2.005 on various boxes, I'm=20 > finding that munin-node is going down regularly. >=20 > (Multiple machines, looks to be affected on FreeBSD8.2 and FreeBSD8.3=20 > REL, but not 9.0 machines) This is due to newsyslog sending a signal to munin-node (notice the first line of the log). As a workaround, if you comment the munin-node line in /etc/newsyslog.conf, munin-node will stay running, but you'll have to figure out another way to rotate the logs, if you care about rotating those logs. This is probably a bug somewhere. I haven't debugged further than this due to lack of time, but maybe this will help you determine the root cause, and a fix. > It looks related to trying to start on an ipv6 interface ( which is not= =20 > there) and i suspect this is a default from the perl Net-Server module=20 > rather than munin? >=20 > Jun 19 00:00:01 ifdnrg20 newsyslog[24331]: logfile turned over > Pid_file created by this same process. Doing nothing. > 2012/06/19-00:00:02 Munin::Node::Server (type Net::Server::Fork)=20 > starting! pid(50897) > sysctl: unknown oid 'net.ipv6.bindv6only' > Resolved [*]:4949 to [::]:4949, IPv6 > Resolved [*]:4949 to [0.0.0.0]:4949, IPv4 > Binding open file descriptors > 2012/06/19-00:00:02 Bad file descriptor > at line 298 in file /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.4/Net/Server.pm > 2012/06/19-00:00:02 Server closing! > shutdown() on unopened socket GEN0 at=20 > /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.12.4/mach/IO/Socket.pm line 295. > shutdown() on unopened socket GEN1 at=20 > /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.12.4/mach/IO/Socket.pm line 295. >=20 > Paul. --=20 Kenyon Ralph --ZvvH1QDaOFG4lOZN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJP4C1hAAoJEJj/PvnJuRLVsNUQAIF9O5ukJycn6OPFf7OXTZCL 9dX6QlUTlNcdTV0mTaAuWYUHZbhpeaEwaJK/1w7/GsTeek2FfZVyomu09nIxseyV vMtW1l49rsdu8T2cyg5gGPklhz5Eeu68scOKAwwdbVfoZqOk/8d7XCvFM/ehyfvq RcimMWyLSSkZTBqwr9uWjn5+wcwQjB8rIBQ7PsT645tuwFuFF9EGAjxpuEaaeM++ xkjAJK4dfjVMRt4Qj9asaMWopN9kgpIr1TQcQ2kF7UID4nQevmsL48xsCWMJC3HA RpXU4DimbKMj+N2LdHm/Dj34G/KsBuljn0Hg8yuYwu21zIDZPjSnkKiT6RtREH0O uJEMkvC7XmXQbejkCsCCYjJVePqQQOGUDooS2dfd9N//tjWjY24zSlb6MoAksUTk rGxl5MXMD4cOz112piAbWEX4No5RnjzHwPEKujrdCqiPri4uFKHG9vZsptscbu7x aI91iVW6eipZUSRiRh1WC7cQmWRCjtc/6LIWnXIVweWjpWRdTJiFy/CUOvW77JTq wL9T3Q5InIgXRMozYXZKQ0761UPrB4BT4jUCOFzFpNrK1yDYA8Nga3JJ7XM8012G 22pTYWv3t5GXGRO6kFkYWIY9isOTSSv1W6La/i3fcH3+9F60dvmDBvDuNaLwItjU Jdhaz3P6JK8eoOckizja =DbEf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZvvH1QDaOFG4lOZN-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 08:37:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E65C1106564A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:37:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cyberleo@cyberleo.net) Received: from paka.cyberleo.net (paka.cyberleo.net [66.219.31.21]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE9F98FC17 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:37:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [172.16.44.4] (den.cyberleo.net [216.80.73.130]) by paka.cyberleo.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4F7C829652; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:37:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4FE03A3D.8090808@cyberleo.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 03:37:17 -0500 From: CyberLeo Kitsana User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.4) Gecko/20120617 Thunderbird/10.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Antonio Olivares References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: urtw0 wireless device on FreeBSD problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:37:25 -0000 On 06/18/2012 09:07 PM, Antonio Olivares wrote: > Dear Folks, ... > Is there a place where the panics/oops are saved to retrieve them and > cut + paste them here? > /var/log/, /tmp/ ? If you have set dumpdev in rc.conf to the location of a swap device (or AUTO to have it pick one), the core dump (and a neat automated analysis, on 8.x and later) should end up in /var/crash. Keep in mind that coredumps can be as large as the machine's installed RAM, so you will probably want at least that much swap and disk to hold it. Also, there may still be some issues with obtaining consistent coredumps on multiprocessor machines, but I got rid of the miscreant hardware before I could test that claim on anything newer than 8.1. You can find more comprehensive information in the handbook[1]. [1] http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/developers-handbook/kerneldebug.html -- Fuzzy love, -CyberLeo Technical Administrator CyberLeo.Net Webhosting http://www.CyberLeo.Net Furry Peace! - http://wwww.fur.com/peace/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 09:09:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E18CA1065675 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:09:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller23@insightbb.com) Received: from mail.insightbb.com (smtp.insight.synacor.com [208.47.185.22]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9669C8FC12 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:09:02 +0000 (UTC) X_CMAE_Category: 0,0 Undefined,Undefined X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=FHLvU3UV72LE1j7dEqtJhruKUqqkeWzFW2B9leN3Oic= c=1 sm=0 a=jLN7EqiLvroA:10 a=KdgEURlQC0B8lIxJ8-kA:9 a=Q/oqmR4JO1zR3vNQamCQeQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Authentication-Results: smtp01.insight.synacor.com header.from=mueller230@insightbb.com; sender-id=softfail Authentication-Results: smtp01.insight.synacor.com smtp.mail=mueller23@insightbb.com; spf=softfail; sender-id=softfail Received-SPF: softfail (smtp01.insight.synacor.com: transitional domain insightbb.com does not designate 74.134.26.53 as permitted sender) Received: from [74.134.26.53] ([74.134.26.53:51781] helo=localhost) by mail.insightbb.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.40 r(29895/29896)) with ESMTP id 14/FA-06229-7A140EF4; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:08:56 -0400 Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:08:55 -0400 Message-ID: <14.FA.06229.7A140EF4@smtp01.insight.synacor.com> From: "Thomas Mueller" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: David Naylor , Volodymyr Kostyrko , Matthew Seaman Subject: Re: Why Clang? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:09:03 -0000 from David Naylor: > I am the one who sends these persistent messages. Some users of my packages > reported that wine didn't run due to a clang compiled world. I never verified > them (although I got multiple reports). With the updates to clang it may have > also been corrected. > I attributed the problem to clang miscompiling a library in base used by wine > and Volodymyr, I think, confirms this: I only have other people's experience on this issue, need to test this, but want to keep a GCC-compiled world for now, at least for a production system. This would not stop me from trying Clang on an experimental/testing installation, such as HEAD, where the basic intent is development. >From Volodymyr Kostyrko: > Thomas Mueller wrote: > >Now one concern is wine not working when Clang is used to "make buildworld". > For me I'm just waiting on toolchain stabilization as both this one and > (open|libre)office fail because of libgcc_s compiled with clang on amd64. I guess that's why I want to keep at least one GCC-compiled world for now. Like it or not, Linux is by far the leading open-source OS, and most of the ports are originally developed with mainly Linux in mind. Linux software development is GCC-centric, I don't know if there is any work with Clang in Linux. Now how will I know whether GCC or Clang is the default compiler for building the world and kernel, and for ports? Not that I want to avoid Clang, just don't want to be caught by surprise. Tom From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 11:42:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C0D0106564A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:42:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 977E08FC0C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:42:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (pD9FBF94E.dip.t-dialin.net [217.251.249.78]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5JBgHGX003307; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:42:18 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5JBg5O7089681; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:42:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5JBfrtL047180; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:41:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201206191141.q5JBfrtL047180@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Wojciech Puchar From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:53:53 +0200." Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:41:53 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:42:21 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > If you cannot see this - i cannot help you any more. sorry. Your noise is no help. Use appropriate lists. http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 11:42:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22EF510656EE; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:42:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA8AB8FC08; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:42:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.36]) by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 19 Jun 2012 07:42:36 -0400 Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 4.3.4-GA) with ESMTP id BUW51081; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:42:35 -0400 Received-SPF: None identity=pra; client-ip=209.6.86.84; receiver=smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net; envelope-from="roberthuff@rcn.com"; x-sender="roberthuff@rcn.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Neutral identity=mailfrom; client-ip=209.6.86.84; receiver=smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net; envelope-from="roberthuff@rcn.com"; x-sender="roberthuff@rcn.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" Received-SPF: None identity=helo; client-ip=209.6.86.84; receiver=smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net; envelope-from="roberthuff@rcn.com"; x-sender="postmaster@jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received: from 209-6-86-84.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) ([209.6.86.84]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 19 Jun 2012 07:42:35 -0400 From: Robert Huff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <20448.26026.963013.57533@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:42:34 -0400 To: "Thomas Mueller" In-Reply-To: <14.FA.06229.7A140EF4@smtp01.insight.synacor.com> References: <14.FA.06229.7A140EF4@smtp01.insight.synacor.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" XEmacs Lucid X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net) Cc: Matthew Seaman , Volodymyr Kostyrko , David Naylor , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:42:37 -0000 Thomas Mueller writes: > Now how will I know whether GCC or Clang is the default compiler > for building the world and kernel, and for ports? My understanding is: 8.* base - gcc ports - gcc 9.0 (and possibly 9.*) base - gcc ports - clang (with the caveat some ports need either any gcc or a specific version) CURRENT base - as of this writing, clang (look for announcement in current@ or hackers@) ports - clang, as above though with a shorter list (Someone please correct me if they have more accurate information.) Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 11:52:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79F1B1065670 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:52:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from remailer@dizum.com) Received: from smtp.zedz.net (outpost.zedz.net [194.109.206.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 380B68FC12 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:52:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.zedz.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EC581AA2D0 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:52:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp.zedz.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2AE1bZtztrUY for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:52:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: by smtp.zedz.net (Postfix, from userid 1003) id A47001C4052; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:52:27 +0200 (CEST) From: Nomen Nescio Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. Please report problems or inappropriate use to the remailer administrator at . To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4dd15dac54dd928e38fe030fea13427a@dizum.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:52:27 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:52:42 -0000 > Only facts? Well and good. Do you have any proof GNU is in any way > connected to any communist movement? Yes, see the Gnu Manifesto. Hint: it's named that way for a reason. > Do you have any facts (NOT living in your head) GPLvX is in any way > inspired/based on/even remotely connected to/ ANY communist > movement/party/literature? Yes, see above. Stallman is a self-described atheist Marxist. > information. So: since you are against GPL means you are communist. > Perhaps even stalinist. Period. No, but that is a good example of a Marxist/Stalinist tactic. Lies, lies, and more lies. The truth is Stallman is to software what Stalin was to people. You must do everything according to his will or you will be branded an enemy of the people. Sick, because in truth Stallman is an enemy of the people. He's the programming equivalent of a televangelist, making a religion out of his sick communist ideals and at the expense of honest people who sell write and sell software. He wants to drive them out of business but only so he can create more power and fame by making more groupies. Sick! > P.S. If needs be I could prove an opposite. And be quite a bit meaner. > P.P.S. Now PLEASE take any moral/political/religious garbage out of this > mailing list to chat, advocacy or any other non-technical forum. Morality does have a place in software and everywhere else in life. > GPL-vs-BSD, Linux-vs-Windows-vs-BSD-vs-whatever else, > Christianity-vs-Buddhism and so on does not belong here. But it is "Free" BSD so freedom needs to be understood. GPL is wrong, it's not free and it doesn't belong in FreeBSD. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 11:51:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A5191065675; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:51:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joe.gain@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBDAC8FC1F; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:51:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so5548703wer.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:51:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ukm17VI5n9dOZ334YHjgzY6blooFIwdHNNDdpuqQtyM=; b=QH3J9cv5pSMSB+5rpTNDQIGhIy+PLfrV0OJH78S63haD/wnZicRI6IUlNxSNlsAfMf ooflvBw8ZqfYofQCImLxXphyJ9kpNJ3byYIsqIuxHW5AORjdxlep9OqhqH4YTQYKSNx/ JCH7QgJqRBZ0OfVRusTwwcVtVmDOYvuCkMRfwpMJDXj7n5OmCt2draiKlJxCo9PVaV9p oJKweNxuGgQwXiskbmGKyXQ9MUT5jatej8JDmzOnsiWBzz9cWWEZ7h3MAhL6GS9Wpfep 2fWBvkotLaXK7blt2O8jOwxz5n4MesAsXNsvfnDQZXRacTp22dg0wPTyIufadf99JtNk PoFg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.205.5 with SMTP id i5mr9879824weo.6.1340106675114; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.220.96 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:51:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20448.26026.963013.57533@jerusalem.litteratus.org> References: <14.FA.06229.7A140EF4@smtp01.insight.synacor.com> <20448.26026.963013.57533@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:51:12 +0200 Message-ID: From: Joe Gain To: Robert Huff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:16:02 +0000 Cc: Thomas Mueller , David Naylor , Volodymyr Kostyrko , Matthew Seaman , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:51:25 -0000 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Robert Huff wrote: > > Thomas Mueller writes: > >> =A0Now how will I know whether GCC or Clang is the default compiler >> =A0for building the world and kernel, and for ports? > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0My understanding is: > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A08.* > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0base - gcc > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ports - gcc > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A09.0 (and possibly 9.*) > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0base - gcc > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ports - clang (with the caveat some ports need either any = gcc > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0or a speci= fic version) > I can't confirm this other than to say, that I compile stable 9 base (kernel + world) using clang and ports using gcc. I have to compile base using WERROR=3D and NO_WERROR=3D settings in make.conf so that the compilation doesn't halt on error messages. Maybe this is no longer required. This is as per wiki, though admittedly, as per wiki a couple of months ago. I can imagine that the problem will be compiling ports with clang. Some of the gcc code is not correct as per specification. There's a list somewhere of currently compilable ports using clang. > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0CURRENT > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0base - as of this writing, clang (look for announcement in > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0current@ o= r hackers@) > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ports - clang, as above though with a shorter list > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(Someone please correct me if they have more accurate > information.) > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0Robert Huff > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" --=20 joe gain jacob-burckhardt-str. 16 78464 konstanz germany +49 (0)7531 60389 (...otherwise in ???) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 13:37:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10984106564A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:37:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D0D8FC0C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:37:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so2268296eek.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:37:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=p7BWwXJ4WkAOkTuptY49w8PXqrGO2kSJ9+XLRSbxO6k=; b=gumkzP0mn1Fzc82Ek/ZUBtKkTQwg+IEEM67gcAhU3Iu5FYsKUTV6fuHEx8wC06/chJ iyHN5xk9LUdiCPkHc5xJ6HYaMrVNTDuIKx2cnAdZaCAeglDVs8yO+eNDjTTaKTa1MM7j /yG692mPBdzphxgt7Ypj69HskmTAdyAiFoTASXkkm89WNqjbjPm5n3iB2Axn9k5YsGBd /hJ01znIc/ZumwQMcPoPsZCAQcuGlZHhyy/J+c6PAEs9sKgR+JHtIj5ukYyo3yozulfV pAntLSl0wVYc4M02ZIxaXVNnoQ1bzzK4EP+/kjFkYWSTbLm09tMmngTazCiPNDrWQq0L S2WQ== Received: by 10.14.95.201 with SMTP id p49mr4375444eef.103.1340113046569; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfleuriot-at-hi-media.com ([83.167.62.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e45sm76177947eeb.6.2012.06.19.06.37.25 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE08093.1040607@my.gd> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:37:23 +0200 From: Damien Fleuriot User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmRHSL0d/3IWjFJGBUoie9lFSTwC8YfC3rFfWrr2vjreAm0acraRO0rAHxMzl3lyOUdpxz+ Cc: Subject: rm returns 0 although directory didn't exist and wasn't deleted ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:37:28 -0000 I've stumbled upon this *so weird* behaviour. # ls -la /var/tmp/stunnel/ ls: /var/tmp/stunnel/: No such file or directory # rm -Rf /var/tmp/stunnel/ # echo $? 0 Anyone knows if that's intended ? FreeBSD pf2.[snip].com 8.3-STABLE FreeBSD 8.3-STABLE #0: Tue Jun 19 10:45:31 CEST 2012 From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 13:41:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE3991065670 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:41:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from magik@roorback.net) Received: from roorback.net (roorback.net [174.136.102.130]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B796B8FC08 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:41:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.1.1.66] (cerber2.pf.com.pl [157.25.200.133]) by roorback.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 06D7811439 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:41:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4FE0818B.2080508@roorback.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:41:31 +0200 From: Grzegorz Blach User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FE08093.1040607@my.gd> In-Reply-To: <4FE08093.1040607@my.gd> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: rm returns 0 although directory didn't exist and wasn't deleted ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:41:37 -0000 On 06/19/2012 03:37 PM, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > I've stumbled upon this *so weird* behaviour. > > > > # ls -la /var/tmp/stunnel/ > ls: /var/tmp/stunnel/: No such file or directory > > # rm -Rf > /var/tmp/stunnel/ > > # echo $? > 0 > > > > Anyone knows if that's intended ? > rm without -f return 1 in this case From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 13:43:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C63106567A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:43:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fred.morcos@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F7578FC0A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:43:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so332209obc.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:43:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1TvO+q6bk1xtjrILcmWcFFFrQeyswhoP3Nr2QKx3RB4=; b=WkJ7zYoxBOkYTDykeh4POIPMK9JChXLogad85BBRzHgJZMt9KRYyErZqtT10j3OVP1 WfK4z6FYBEaLvICQHNh9bFfmNKDrmzW0XkBhAgesRfOJEY6I2XzSbx05YmsaVnvaVAlc crEjAhQE45M+eV9ORYZ8QImwFEcP1Dfx3flsIxJGYwbku3ukjwiUrOQArnwGccHeXksp yIr06JymyfORluO43ZMBmNVH2m0oPEDHT0wo6lS3jTDWWVzEAkVK8aMDQ8jcJHmc3B/w y9kI7SwQzBupi5sp5nYBQtID8mXbaNTFKmiandaXCbwHlbPLdHPeEb4oyALhLfvQ/b6y o3Ug== Received: by 10.182.207.41 with SMTP id lt9mr19839971obc.41.1340113420915; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:43:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.241.7 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:43:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FE08093.1040607@my.gd> References: <4FE08093.1040607@my.gd> From: Fred Morcos Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:43:20 +0200 Message-ID: To: Damien Fleuriot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rm returns 0 although directory didn't exist and wasn't deleted ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:43:41 -0000 You used -f which means rm will not complain if a file or directory cannot be deleted (or does not exist in the first place). On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > I've stumbled upon this *so weird* behaviour. > > > > # ls -la /var/tmp/stunnel/ > ls: /var/tmp/stunnel/: No such file or directory > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 # rm -Rf > /var/tmp/stunnel/ > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 # echo $? > 0 > > > > Anyone knows if that's intended ? > > FreeBSD pf2.[snip].com 8.3-STABLE FreeBSD 8.3-STABLE #0: Tue Jun 19 > 10:45:31 CEST 2012 > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 14:16:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B60B31065790 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:16:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DEEC8FC08 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:16:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so2302445eek.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:16:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=syup6fU6IMNE/pNpACGnHA6673WuNzAKIxNQN9pBCOw=; b=pTRcRwITWaSjubZB0+WwnrDWF7rmoaDZP+5jlECgDZs4SXNWZ8DATa9Tl3ZPdaiXbO MGSntTargBIQ2WBJmykABqE3390BJUWXjYdOVmSONm9gXLHbAJaYDS1C1L3/Am5pIz2j eA19sHiDLe8TsjUGWaEMfarNri9X7sZPVckjG+vtHDzR5eKGwAslSdU5S1E4t3iszlII wwuBCYeiJsXzJ/F+oZkDsVqVLnpRZV817GMP2mkQtqVlb5F4wVyWTW4Ah6CBO+dqORnY yhWpuwc4z3GfgB43Z0EG751OphWH9zKqXf0wKxooxOV6ZT/RSpBRwE2mFp62ARUmpEon nhuQ== Received: by 10.14.119.73 with SMTP id m49mr3834264eeh.187.1340115377281; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfleuriot-at-hi-media.com ([83.167.62.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y54sm76619132eef.10.2012.06.19.07.16.15 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE089AE.5050206@my.gd> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:16:14 +0200 From: Damien Fleuriot User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fred Morcos References: <4FE08093.1040607@my.gd> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmkfqAvm7X1AhHtpIRQDe2szK8LNlVHnMuBd9zJkAohVr6r/h10lzGCpmJ2URSciaacn/bF Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rm returns 0 although directory didn't exist and wasn't deleted ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:16:18 -0000 I always assumed -f would only force removal, not modify the exit code. No bug then, working as intended, all good. Cheers On 6/19/12 3:43 PM, Fred Morcos wrote: > You used -f which means rm will not complain if a file or directory > cannot be deleted (or does not exist in the first place). > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Damien Fleuriot wrote: >> I've stumbled upon this *so weird* behaviour. >> >> >> >> # ls -la /var/tmp/stunnel/ >> ls: /var/tmp/stunnel/: No such file or directory >> >> # rm -Rf >> /var/tmp/stunnel/ >> >> # echo $? >> 0 >> >> >> >> Anyone knows if that's intended ? >> >> FreeBSD pf2.[snip].com 8.3-STABLE FreeBSD 8.3-STABLE #0: Tue Jun 19 >> 10:45:31 CEST 2012 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 14:20:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22CA41065670 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:20:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fred.morcos@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3BAD8FC1D for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:20:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so385272obc.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:20:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=s2Vxn2H+HTrbkRRdy9jNoLaDJqOfxStNDm15+3fLv98=; b=EQdKDYk1owPgk1BKxG3/GCeswFSPKU1GYHG0XcsoPJkWZXpVMaO72grDKzEwpkIew9 9UAytb1KA11yZo2BmKTu8UIrkIK3L8URUcfincXpX7q1qb9Q6nv6UfFkjlfQs8dpNSuy gNO3cJZIJFGDMYMi5bEl/xjBD7eBALCSMkQp48+60Mctsr477PyEy1+SQK7lNB294jQJ /lnXYV/PGykmmWbGiM1RoXFAhl4OBcPfQVLwDTGAsIkQkzHjhH+ImRkWct9sT51tWxlH vQ2LPd56cu7TQ7sw5jNhTw05HWqijPArWcH1K4eZDa6Sj/bJYljjxn/Y8FU4RJ8D97An PNoQ== Received: by 10.182.164.102 with SMTP id yp6mr19818029obb.66.1340115602863; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:20:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.241.7 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:19:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FE089AE.5050206@my.gd> References: <4FE08093.1040607@my.gd> <4FE089AE.5050206@my.gd> From: Fred Morcos Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:19:42 +0200 Message-ID: To: Damien Fleuriot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rm returns 0 although directory didn't exist and wasn't deleted ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:20:04 -0000 The man page [1] explicitly states that if the file doesn't exist, -f will not show an error message nor alter the exit code. -f Attempt to remove the files without prompting for confirmation, regardless of the file's permissions. If the file does not exist, do not display a diagnostic message or modify the exit status to reflect an error. The -f option overrides any previous -i options. [1] http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=3Drm&apropos=3D0&sektion=3D0&m= anpath=3DFreeBSD+9.0-RELEASE&arch=3Ddefault&format=3Dhtml On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > I always assumed -f would only force removal, not modify the exit code. > > No bug then, working as intended, all good. > > > > Cheers > > On 6/19/12 3:43 PM, Fred Morcos wrote: >> You used -f which means rm will not complain if a file or directory >> cannot be deleted (or does not exist in the first place). >> >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Damien Fleuriot wrote: >>> I've stumbled upon this *so weird* behaviour. >>> >>> >>> >>> # ls -la /var/tmp/stunnel/ >>> ls: /var/tmp/stunnel/: No such file or directory >>> >>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 # rm -Rf >>> /var/tmp/stunnel/ >>> >>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 # echo $? >>> 0 >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone knows if that's intended ? >>> >>> FreeBSD pf2.[snip].com 8.3-STABLE FreeBSD 8.3-STABLE #0: Tue Jun 19 >>> 10:45:31 CEST 2012 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd= .org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 14:44:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B3E106566B for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:44:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12FA98FC18 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:44:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1]) by shiva.jussieu.fr (8.14.4/jtpda-5.4) with ESMTP id q5JEhg79064260 ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:43:55 +0200 (CEST) X-Ids: 168 Received: from [192.168.1.10] (niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.41]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0B7D51FF61; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:43:36 +0200 (CEST) From: Michel Talon Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_22F47BFB-6755-4DB6-BF8A-8A64170FE97B"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:43:31 +0200 Message-Id: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> To: FreeBSD Questions Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Miltered: at jchkmail.jussieu.fr with ID 4FE0901E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 4FE0901E.000/134.157.10.1/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/ X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , David Brodbeck Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:44:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_22F47BFB-6755-4DB6-BF8A-8A64170FE97B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 David Brodbeck said: > Another way of looking at it is after 25 years of optimization GCC is > unable to beat a new compiler that's had almost none... Unfortunately this affirmation is blatantly false, recent gcc produce = code much faster than clang. I give here an example which i like, a monte = carlo computation for a spin lattice. Everything runs on my macbook. lilas% clang -v Apple clang version 2.1 (tags/Apple/clang-163.7.1) (based on LLVM = 3.0svn) Target: x86_64-apple-darwin11.4.0 lilas% clang -O4 test.c -lf2c lilas% time ./a.out ... real 0m2.359s user 0m2.341s sys 0m0.003s lilas% /usr/local/bin/gcc -v =85 gcc version 4.6.1 (GCC) lilas% /usr/local/bin/gcc -O3 test.c -lf2c lilas% time ./a.out =85 real 0m1.241s user 0m1.234s sys 0m0.003s So gcc gives an executable running twice faster than clang, basically, = when both compilers are run at maximal optimization. To show the effectiveness of the = optimizer, here is the running time without any optimization: lilas% /usr/local/bin/gcc test.c -lf2c lilas% time ./a.out =85 real 0m6.895s user 0m6.889s sys 0m0.005s What this demonstrates is that for programs which do real computations, = optimization is *very* important, and gcc is now very good (i have not shown the numbers = but they match the Intel compiler) while clang is at the level gcc was ten years ago. So i fully agree with = Wojciech Puchar, the move to clang is only driven by anti GPL propaganda which is frankly completely = stupid, since in any events, gcc does not contaminate the binaries it produces (except when using = contaminated accompanying libraries e.g. for C++). Of course, when compiling FreeBSD kernel or similar = programs which do little computation there is no harm using clang. I suspect that the price is higher for = programs like mencoder which require the highest efficiency. I will not comment on the better error messages coming from clang, this = could be a more serious argument. -- Michel Talon talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr --Apple-Mail=_22F47BFB-6755-4DB6-BF8A-8A64170FE97B-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 15:14:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D910106566B for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:14:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fred.morcos@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6CF8FC0C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:14:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnm2 with SMTP id m2so5500206ggn.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:14:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=I9Yx//KNveV1Wtn0vqf/Dj/TxLGd9KWznV+X2itrBMo=; b=h9aKgO4wxShOD/eqvh1XZmvTOVePV+Si6NcyZ7Hsn339RsG5gSiThLtYA5nTNrHtN9 XvRf4AVvVZr4RCW0+IP9m6MAW4lJBhg5R0z/h7+CU9kvOQDrIEpeRSNfZAYQDTrAIKAC 0P9llRyXq8AwEqzP62bD7Zl35eIrz76dHc4BFZhIWoAXxae9d0I4pwT5bVTo0c9ZEadx fzoQI5Bc0R5UradtuoZ8EMhliZGJgzKMtyuujA/Y1Bt8uIEO53GCtblrC0CMrEdFIRCP E1WXz0K/6q4E1cuY3VjJfAwwH36vWhUypA4GCJxt83cN4O8Ku4jafDdLxmQwINopBCZA Yjvg== Received: by 10.60.29.169 with SMTP id l9mr20259748oeh.14.1340118886255; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:14:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.241.7 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:14:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> From: Fred Morcos Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:14:25 +0200 Message-ID: To: Michel Talon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Wojciech Puchar , David Brodbeck , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:14:47 -0000 I would also guess that the base system is stuck with gcc ~4.1 due to the GPLv3-ization of later gcc version. Is that correct? On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Michel Talon wrot= e: > David Brodbeck said: >> Another way of looking at it is after 25 years of optimization GCC is >> unable to beat a new compiler that's had almost none... > Unfortunately this affirmation is blatantly false, recent gcc produce cod= e > much faster than clang. I give here an example which i like, a monte carl= o computation for a spin lattice. > Everything runs on my macbook. > > lilas% clang -v > Apple clang version 2.1 (tags/Apple/clang-163.7.1) (based on LLVM 3.0svn) > Target: x86_64-apple-darwin11.4.0 > lilas% clang -O4 test.c -lf2c > lilas% time ./a.out > ... > > real =A0 =A00m2.359s > user =A0 =A00m2.341s > sys =A0 =A0 0m0.003s > > lilas% /usr/local/bin/gcc -v > =85 > gcc version 4.6.1 (GCC) > > lilas% /usr/local/bin/gcc -O3 test.c -lf2c > lilas% time ./a.out > =85 > > real =A0 =A00m1.241s > user =A0 =A00m1.234s > sys =A0 =A0 0m0.003s > > So gcc gives an executable running twice faster than clang, basically, wh= en both compilers > are run at maximal optimization. To show the effectiveness of the optimiz= er, here is the running > time without any optimization: > > lilas% /usr/local/bin/gcc =A0test.c -lf2c > lilas% time ./a.out > =85 > > real =A0 =A00m6.895s > user =A0 =A00m6.889s > sys =A0 =A0 0m0.005s > > What this demonstrates is that for programs which do real computations, o= ptimization is > *very* important, and gcc is now very good (i have not shown the numbers = but they match the Intel compiler) > while clang is at the level gcc was ten years ago. So i fully agree with = Wojciech Puchar, the move to clang > is only driven by anti GPL propaganda which is frankly completely stupid,= since in any events, gcc > does not contaminate the binaries it produces (except when using contamin= ated accompanying libraries > e.g. for C++). Of course, when compiling FreeBSD kernel or similar progra= ms which do little computation > there is no harm using clang. I suspect that the price is higher for prog= rams like mencoder which require > the highest efficiency. > > I will not comment on the better error messages coming from clang, this c= ould be a more serious argument. > > -- > > Michel Talon > talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr > > > > > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 15:19:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58DD2106566C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:19:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26F4E8FC0C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:19:34 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=rapq8w49B7QHZbJN9RYktuQgyqwjgaZa3yIFGuhZ3Pc=; b=VZsPgjbBneY1GN6vnZdN07wZlbRWzYohJSyTo0clh6c0uuzPJbfkQ1/70vxWe6har5Cuki/MIV3oKcqXq5YwbHKA7U/5pxnNr5yPQQ0iiocRLwfvrE0w8E6cQUBBMfle; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Sh0DN-000DbM-9E for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:19:33 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340119167-94480-94479/5/10; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:19:27 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: FreeBSD Questions References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:19:26 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:19:34 -0000 On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:14:25 -0500, Fred Morcos wrote: > I would also guess that the base system is stuck with gcc ~4.1 due to > the GPLv3-ization of later gcc version. Is that correct? Yes, 4.2.1 is the latest we can use. Also, I have no idea what version of Clang Michael is using on OSX. That tag means nothing to me; for all I know that really could be back in Clang 2.1 days which makes this exercise pointless. We need to be comparing at a minimum the very latest Clang to GCC 4.2.1. Further benchmarks against the latest GCC is welcome, but we should care more about not having a huge performance regression in comparison to what GCC 4.2.1 already provides us. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 16:35:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55B91065670 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:35:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy9.bluehost.com (oproxy9.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 671628FC08 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:35:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 3739 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 2012 16:35:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy9.bluehost.com with SMTP; 19 Jun 2012 16:35:49 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=k7gE68lImBc2lCssnW0sNnO+3Mm/CvTfde7TH4odoL8=; b=a3Aopcg32EDtGyu364XPNtkA4dtN6H8W3zjE2vOC/WebhvZSMii85E3aTzob3JCiw6kUXwuwa8/7Y7w4RiiNC9C3V2K/CL0orkTHSunKCQfv27RBExpL/I1s5hLSeag2; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=62062 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Sh1PB-0004pw-BL for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:35:49 -0600 Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:35:49 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120619163549.GA5561@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <201206182014.q5IKEVdQ014212@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120618210049.GA2508@hemlock.hydra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:35:50 -0000 You should really configure your email client to attribute quoted commentary properly (or, as a first step, at all). On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 06:51:00AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >>be more exact. > > > >I believe Robert Bonomi (you didn't include attribution for the previous > >email, I notice) *was* more exact, in that the rest of his email > >explained what he thought of your glossing over the various factors that > >might contribute to binary size. > > > >I notice you ignored most of it in your response, too. > > or maybe missed. So please tell me finally what is wrong in > measuring speed by measuring time of execution doing same things? > What i should measure? time in heavens? He didn't say anything about your measurement of time being faulty. He said your measurement of size was faulty. > > > >I can generally puzzle out what caused various GCC warning and error > >messages when trying to compile my own code, given comparison of what's > > strange but i don't have a problem - and i always set -Wall when > using gcc as 99% of warnings are actually errors. I guess you're either some kind of rare genius or suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Everyone I've encountered with something to say about warning and error reporting with regard to Clang vs. GCC has remarked about how much nicer it is with Clang. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 17:11:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA99E106566B for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:11:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ulrich@pukruppa.de) Received: from pukruppa.de (pd95cabe3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.92.171.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 479978FC0A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:11:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pukruppa.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pukruppa.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5JGh5ht069859 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:43:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ulrich@pukruppa.de) Message-ID: <4FE0AC19.5080506@pukruppa.de> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:43:05 +0200 From: Peter Ulrich Kruppa User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120618 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> In-Reply-To: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:11:06 -0000 On 19.06.2012 16:43, Michel Talon wrote: > David Brodbeck said: >> Another way of looking at it is after 25 years of optimization GCC is >> unable to beat a new compiler that's had almost none... > Unfortunately this affirmation is blatantly false, recent gcc produce code > much faster than clang. I give here an example which i like, a monte carlo computation for a spin lattice. > Everything runs on my macbook. > > lilas% clang -v > Apple clang version 2.1 (tags/Apple/clang-163.7.1) (based on LLVM 3.0svn) > Target: x86_64-apple-darwin11.4.0 > lilas% clang -O4 test.c -lf2c > lilas% time ./a.out > ... > > real 0m2.359s > user 0m2.341s > sys 0m0.003s > > lilas% /usr/local/bin/gcc -v > … > gcc version 4.6.1 (GCC) > > lilas% /usr/local/bin/gcc -O3 test.c -lf2c > lilas% time ./a.out > … > > real 0m1.241s > user 0m1.234s > sys 0m0.003s > > So gcc gives an executable running twice faster than clang, basically, when both compilers > are run at maximal optimization. To show the effectiveness of the optimizer, here is the running > time without any optimization: > > lilas% /usr/local/bin/gcc test.c -lf2c > lilas% time ./a.out > … > > real 0m6.895s > user 0m6.889s > sys 0m0.005s > > What this demonstrates is that for programs which do real computations, optimization is > *very* important, and gcc is now very good (i have not shown the numbers but they match the Intel compiler) > while clang is at the level gcc was ten years ago. So i fully agree with Wojciech Puchar, the move to clang > is only driven by anti GPL propaganda which is frankly completely stupid, since in any events, gcc > does not contaminate the binaries it produces (except when using contaminated accompanying libraries > e.g. for C++). Of course, when compiling FreeBSD kernel or similar programs which do little computation > there is no harm using clang. I suspect that the price is higher for programs like mencoder which require > the highest efficiency. Really - just to throw in another opinion: As an average user I don't see any performance impact on my clang-built desktop-every-day-workstation. The only thing that is getting on my nerves are some ports I frequently have to rebuild with gcc. It would be nice if the porting team could set up some automagic for that. There seems to be no harm in running a mixed clang/gcc built userland. Some members of this list seem to fear some kind of communist infiltration by gcc - I hope this is no serious issue, is it? > > I will not comment on the better error messages coming from clang, this could be a more serious argument. I don't know what they mean, but they really do look good :-) Greetings Peter > > -- > > Michel Talon > talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr > > > > > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 17:53:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82BD51065689 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:53:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8E1A8FC0C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:53:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5JHrJPR008253; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:53:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5JHrC23008250; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:53:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:53:12 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Michel Talon In-Reply-To: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:53:20 +0200 (CEST) Cc: David Brodbeck , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:53:22 -0000 > lilas% clang -v > Apple clang version 2.1 (tags/Apple/clang-163.7.1) (based on LLVM 3.0svn) > Target: x86_64-apple-darwin11.4.0 > lilas% clang -O4 test.c -lf2c > lilas% time ./a.out > ... > > real 0m2.359s > user 0m2.341s > sys 0m0.003s > > lilas% /usr/local/bin/gcc -v > ? > gcc version 4.6.1 (GCC) > > lilas% /usr/local/bin/gcc -O3 test.c -lf2c > lilas% time ./a.out > ? > > real 0m1.241s > user 0m1.234s > sys 0m0.003s So gcc actually improved. Can you compare the execution speed of latest gcc vs. latest clang. thank you i compared FReeBSD 9 supplied gcc with FreeBSD 9 supplied clang. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 17:54:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D3151065672 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:54:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 093758FC12 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:54:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5JHskv9008262; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:54:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5JHsjiQ008259; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:54:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:54:45 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Fred Morcos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:54:46 +0200 (CEST) Cc: David Brodbeck , Michel Talon , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:54:48 -0000 > I would also guess that the base system is stuck with gcc ~4.1 due to > the GPLv3-ization of later gcc version. Is that correct? true. anyway - can someone point me an article about explaining in human language (contrary to lawyer language) why GPLv3 is more limiting in reality over v2 . Does GPLv3 does force programs you compile with gcc to be GPLed? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 17:59:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A41D5106566B for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:59:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1675A8FC17 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:59:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5JHxWgn008291; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:59:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5JHxWbG008288; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:59:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:59:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Peter Ulrich Kruppa In-Reply-To: <4FE0AC19.5080506@pukruppa.de> Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <4FE0AC19.5080506@pukruppa.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:59:32 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:59:34 -0000 >> programs like mencoder which require >> the highest efficiency. > Really - just to throw in another opinion: > > As an average user I don't see any performance impact on my clang-built > desktop-every-day-workstation. The only thing that is getting on my nerves > are some ports I frequently have to rebuild with gcc. every time anyone will point a fact about clang not being really the best - some fanatics will reply by going off topic, or worse (fortunately not you) - by aggression, attack or lies. Can you finally behave like normal intelligent people or clang-religion fanatics?! facts are important. ONLY FACTS, unless you want to turn whole FreeBSD project from technical quality to useless propaganda. Please don't do it, as FreeBSD is the only really usable unix remaining! From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 18:48:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D2D51065785 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:48:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rdv.dmitry@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08ABD8FC0C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:48:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eabm6 with SMTP id m6so2452923eab.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:48:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type; bh=KY44vG9wg0Cs7BhDxyXXbu7gxvDs8ixQzIMlPlhYAb0=; b=UCuzDxZ36ZO3eZItt4ERtKfH7y7kmQNawpPLyXu0GaNULsDkIMuPjc2UisqI9W3uru jgTgAX2bX+nngKzJWzrX3P+YqMIMC4T8cR7zPnzHcasY/XrC11Z9Ja0TA+hkPMTHnfe5 Z/c98B/QClu1e+fluMtiT33+GHcNaa+a2YXtR7zLpSvZwf1iU9CUE7gD0ycWIJG7zovq qkujkbavJ+CG4GDnime+jYwR+nnvwtMdvRVO6bC+BTHEHNl7BjBGL7i74m/MHw+jTNO0 eN3Q99+JFkHVjHqD21S68htHOwHCsbsgkaFssCHDpbrA5RCb7rZ/QrRm5InGVWW9UXze pQVw== Received: by 10.152.112.138 with SMTP id iq10mr19516091lab.13.1340131684820; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from adsh14.nnt ([217.72.2.66]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d3sm14378900lbh.3.2012.06.19.11.48.02 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE0C985.9000704@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:48:37 +0400 From: =?UTF-8?B?0JTQvNC40YLRgNC40Lkg0KDQtdC30L3QuNGH0LXQvdC60L4=?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; OpenBSD i386; rv:9.0) Gecko/20120207 Thunderbird/9.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: questions@FreeBSD.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Question about GEOM_ELI` root partition automount [COPY from inc@rdmitry.name] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:48:06 -0000 * [COPY from inc@rdmitry.name]* { # (Russian lang, ORIGINAL) ĐмеетŃŃŹ:: 1) ЗагрŃжаемая некриптованная партиция /boot ŃĐľ Ńкриптами ядра 9.0-release и Ńамим ядром; 2) Криптованная только файл-ключом (ключ лежит ŃĐµĐąŃ‡Đ°Ń Đ˛ (1)/boot ) Ń€Ńтовая партиция ŃĐľ вŃем Ńвоим Ńодержимым. Проблема: При загрŃзке криптованая партиция ŃĐ°ĐĽĐ° монтирŃетŃŃŹ, но ключ открытым лежит. ĐťŃжно именно по ключŃ, не по паролю (площадка провайдера). Надо: Как - Ń‚Đľ Ńделать Ń‚Đ°Đş, что бы ключ был Ńкрыт, не очевиден. Đ”ŃĐĽĐ°ŃŽ, можно какой-Ń‚Đľ из иŃходников изменить, допиŃĐ°Ń‚ŃŚ чаŃŃ‚ŃŚ кода, например Ń /boot/loader , Ń‚Đ°Đş, что бы он ŃĐ°ĐĽ Ńоздавал временно файл ключика, Đ° поŃле монтирования ключик затирал ŃекŃрно (dd в файл ключа). ĐŻ на Ńи ещё не програмил, ŃответŃтвенно и вопроŃ: хотя бы какой файл в иŃходниках ковырять, в какой чаŃти файла? Может быть код даже подŃкажите? P.S. ĐŻ Ń‚Đ°ĐşŃŃŽ ŃŃ‚ŃĐşŃ Đ´Đ»ŃŹ линŃĐşŃĐ° Ńже придŃĐĽĐ°Đ» и Ńделал, но Ń‚Đ°ĐĽ проще, Ń‚.Đş. initrd-image можно разархивировать и легко корректировать. } { # (ENG, translated not so good) What we have now (FreeBSD 9.0-release): 1) /boot partition, uncrypted, with it`s boot scripts, kernel and so on; 2) crypted root partition (geli init -s 4096 -P -K /root/keyfile /dev/adXX), without password but with key; that partition have all its freebsd content. The keyfile located now in (1)/boot. The problem need to solve: Need have end system, when keyfile when boot will be created automatically, and erased securelly just after root crypto` partition mounts (by dd with of=keyfile, for example) That need to do because freebsd have remote hosting. Needs: To make key not (at least EASELY!) catched by unautorised personnel, and noone cat pass password there after reboot or power fail/restore cases. Maby you can give me tip, what pard of src (and maby how, maby /boot/loader src) need to change? P.S. I solve same with linux box, but there i can extract already working initrd.img, change in by adding binary program which make their work, and make new initrd.img } I hope, you will can help me with it, thanks in advance! btw i don`t power user oc C language :) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 18:52:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B8DD106564A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:52:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC7BE8FC12 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:52:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-40-10.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.40.10]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AF1E3CDD4; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:52:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q5JIqPl3002105; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:52:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:52:25 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Wojciech Puchar Message-Id: <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:52:36 -0000 On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:54:45 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar wrote: > anyway - can someone point me an article about explaining in human > language (contrary to lawyer language) why GPLv3 is more limiting in > reality over v2 . > > Does GPLv3 does force programs you compile with gcc to be GPLed? As far as I know, the main difference is that the GPLv3 is often called a "viral license". Software linking against v3 libraries and so maybe programs compiled by a v3 compiler will have - according to the license - to be released as v3 too. Code that is v3 once cannot become "something different" (either v2, BSDL or closed). GPLv2 does have fewer restrictions, emphasizing the freedom of the developer: It's not okay to turn v2 programs into closed source. However, it is okay to make derivates from it as long as the derivates are also published (contributed back). GPLv3 also has this requirement. GPL protects the freedom of the programmer who licensed his code under those licenses: He wants it to be free for use, but not to be turned into closed source products. A programmer who does not want to raise this barrier will typically use the BSD license which is "more free". BSDL in opposite is often criticized a "rape me license". It explicitely (!) allows creating derivates in a closed source manner. This means that parts of BSD licensed code can be a key component in a proprietary closed source product that is for sale (e. g. a firewall appliance), and nobody will find out about that fact. WP has a nice comparison: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_and_open_source_software_licenses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License All those licenses do _not_ allow to steal copyright! -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 19:49:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 011681065670; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:49:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from extinctsv097@kurdogluholding.com.tr) Received: from 64-60-170-58.static-ip.telepacific.net (64-60-170-58.static-ip.telepacific.net [64.60.170.58]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA0968FC21; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:49:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from apache by kjikekckdfakhcmtb.regallager.com with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from , , , , ) id Q0H6O9-54P30P-62 for , , , , ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:49:43 -0800 To: , , , , Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:49:43 -0800 From: , , , , Message-ID: <0A0CAA2DF378ED530B00464E7889248F@kjikekckdfakhcmtb.canaca.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: PHPMailer 5.1 (phpmailer.sourceforge.net) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Cc: Subject: We'll pay you from $ 98 per hour for remote assistance in our clinic X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:49:45 -0000 We invite you to work in the remote assistant position. This work takes 2-3 hours per week and requires absolutely no investment. The essence of this work for incoming client requests in your city. The starting salary is about 2500 EUR per month + bonuses. You get paid your salary every 2 weeks and your bonuses after fulfilling each task! We guarantee work for everyone. But we accept applications this week only! Therefore, you should write a request right now. And you will start earning money, starting from next week. Please indicate in the request: Your name: Your email address: City of residence: Please send the request to my email Sung@workineurop.com,and I will answer you personally as soon as possible Sincerely, Sung Booth From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 18:46:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D33FB1065670 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:46:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from inc@rdmitry.name) Received: from mx.nnt.ru (ma.nnt.ru [217.72.1.6]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23BF38FC15 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:45:59 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nnt.ru; s=nnt; h=Content-Type:Subject:To:MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID; bh=hz7dyFtM5UeqFKPEXIV7yVrgdmcd+lAvnwD1UMPVawc=; b=dRaPSTcg2OBvgAeH7E9J2D/e/cGQnPYiokYCJKmAGEPQvuPjm1qAKnpJ/lrizN6ZOF2BDoFkKDkK160u1GjRM4yo+lwQCkg8pgvtc8Tz+VSahRSbTs3+IxXIUDeuhxAU; Received: from [217.72.2.66] (helo=adsh14.nnt) by mx.nnt.ru with esmtpa (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sh45P-0000zW-MO for questions@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:27:36 +0400 Message-ID: <4FE0C909.1000304@rdmitry.name> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:46:33 +0400 From: Dmitry Reznichenko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; OpenBSD i386; rv:9.0) Gecko/20120207 Thunderbird/9.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: questions@FreeBSD.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:50:52 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Question about GEOM_ELI` root partition automount X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:46:00 -0000 { # (Russian lang, ORIGINAL) ĐмеетŃŃŹ:: 1) ЗагрŃжаемая некриптованная партиция /boot ŃĐľ Ńкриптами ядра 9.0-release и Ńамим ядром; 2) Криптованная только файл-ключом (ключ лежит ŃĐµĐąŃ‡Đ°Ń Đ˛ (1)/boot ) Ń€Ńтовая партиция ŃĐľ вŃем Ńвоим Ńодержимым. Проблема: При загрŃзке криптованая партиция ŃĐ°ĐĽĐ° монтирŃетŃŃŹ, но ключ открытым лежит. ĐťŃжно именно по ключŃ, не по паролю (площадка провайдера). Надо: Как - Ń‚Đľ Ńделать Ń‚Đ°Đş, что бы ключ был Ńкрыт, не очевиден. Đ”ŃĐĽĐ°ŃŽ, можно какой-Ń‚Đľ из иŃходников изменить, допиŃĐ°Ń‚ŃŚ чаŃŃ‚ŃŚ кода, например Ń /boot/loader , Ń‚Đ°Đş, что бы он ŃĐ°ĐĽ Ńоздавал временно файл ключика, Đ° поŃле монтирования ключик затирал ŃекŃрно (dd в файл ключа). ĐŻ на Ńи ещё не програмил, ŃответŃтвенно и вопроŃ: хотя бы какой файл в иŃходниках ковырять, в какой чаŃти файла? Может быть код даже подŃкажите? P.S. ĐŻ Ń‚Đ°ĐşŃŃŽ ŃŃ‚ŃĐşŃ Đ´Đ»ŃŹ линŃĐşŃĐ° Ńже придŃĐĽĐ°Đ» и Ńделал, но Ń‚Đ°ĐĽ проще, Ń‚.Đş. initrd-image можно разархивировать и легко корректировать. } { # (ENG, translated not so good) What we have now (FreeBSD 9.0-release): 1) /boot partition, uncrypted, with it`s boot scripts, kernel and so on; 2) crypted root partition (geli init -s 4096 -P -K /root/keyfile /dev/adXX), without password but with key; that partition have all its freebsd content. The keyfile located now in (1)/boot. The problem need to solve: Need have end system, when keyfile when boot will be created automatically, and erased securelly just after root crypto` partition mounts (by dd with of=keyfile, for example) That need to do because freebsd have remote hosting. Needs: To make key not (at least EASELY!) catched by unautorised personnel, and noone cat pass password there after reboot or power fail/restore cases. Maby you can give me tip, what pard of src (and maby how, maby /boot/loader src) need to change? P.S. I solve same with linux box, but there i can extract already working initrd.img, change in by adding binary program which make their work, and make new initrd.img } I hope, you will can help me with it, thanks in advance! btw i don`t power user oc C language :) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 19:58:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C44E1065670 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:58:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A86BD8FC15 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:58:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5JJwgSL023370; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:58:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5JJwgRr023363; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:58:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:58:42 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Polytropon In-Reply-To: <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:58:42 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:58:48 -0000 >> >> Does GPLv3 does force programs you compile with gcc to be GPLed? > > As far as I know, the main difference is that the GPLv3 is > often called a "viral license". Software linking against v3 > libraries and so maybe programs compiled by a v3 compiler > will have - according to the license - to be released as > v3 too. This word: "MAYBE" is most crucial here. wouldn't it be just simplest solution to ask GNU leader for clearing it out? i wouldn't be surprised that FreeBSD team would decide to go back to gcc soon. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 20:00:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80DC41065680 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:00:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAAD08FC12 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:00:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5JK0e4H028523; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:00:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5JK0eLi028520; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:00:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:00:40 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Dmitry Reznichenko In-Reply-To: <4FE0C909.1000304@rdmitry.name> Message-ID: References: <4FE0C909.1000304@rdmitry.name> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:00:40 +0200 (CEST) Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Question about GEOM_ELI` root partition automount X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:00:53 -0000 > The problem need to solve: > Need have end system, when keyfile when boot will be created automatically, > and erased securelly just after root crypto` partition mounts (by dd with > of=keyfile, for example) > That need to do because freebsd have remote hosting. > > Needs: > To make key not (at least EASELY!) catched by unautorised personnel, and > noone cat pass password there after reboot or power fail/restore cases. > > Maby you can give me tip, what pard of src (and maby how, maby /boot/loader > src) need to change? how do you want to enter that key? i would make system bootable and ssh-able but with secure data unmounted and very small malloc based md device created. then you upload keyfile to it, run geli to attach encrypted device, overwrite md device and destroy md device. if i understand correctly. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 20:17:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A9E4106564A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:17:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from millenia2000@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc4-s16.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc4-s16.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.190.218]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B8F18FC0A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:17:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BAY165-DS11 ([65.54.190.199]) by bay0-omc4-s16.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:16:34 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [174.252.106.27] X-Originating-Email: [millenia2000@hotmail.com] Message-ID: From: Sean Cavanaugh To: "'Wojciech Puchar'" , "'Polytropon'" References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:16:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-index: AQHp4KT3cHm5cc0DCVfi/q+foR9f0AKEiFigAXFYrcQB/5p/ogINI54SlojZsBA= Content-Language: en-us X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jun 2012 20:16:34.0946 (UTC) FILETIME=[6C95D620:01CD4E58] Cc: 'FreeBSD Questions' Subject: RE: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:17:39 -0000 > > i wouldn't be surprised that FreeBSD team would decide to go back to gcc > soon. > I would as one of the driving forces of the change was to replace GPL licensed code in FreeBSD core with more permissive licensed code. This helps to remove a massive legal encumberment for a lot of developers who no longer have to worry how their BSD licensed code has to be treated if its compiled thru a GPL compiler. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 20:21:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE061065670 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:21:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from "") Received: from remailer.privacy.at (remailer.privacy.at [212.124.141.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2816C8FC12 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:21:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by remailer.privacy.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BE3F7F573 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:06:49 +0200 (CEST) From: "Anonymous Remailer (austria)" Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. Please report problems or inappropriate use to the remailer administrator at . To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:06:49 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:21:01 -0000 > GPL protects the freedom of the programmer who licensed his > code under those licenses: He wants it to be free for use, > but not to be turned into closed source products. What a lying sonofabitch. That is not called freedom. That is called "forcible, viral open source". I think we can all see the difference. Open your motherfucking eyes, communist goofball... > A programmer who does not want to raise this barrier will > typically use the BSD license which is "more free". No, it's just plain "free." > BSDL in opposite is often criticized a "rape me license". No, it is not, except perhaps by lying atheist Marxist bastards and his religious adherents. > It explicitely (!) allows creating derivates in a closed > source manner. This means that parts of BSD licensed code > can be a key component in a proprietary closed source > product that is for sale (e. g. a firewall appliance), > and nobody will find out about that fact. Now you got it! GPL is about forcing people to do what /you/ want and BSD is about letting them do what /they/ want. Let's see if you can guess which one of those licenses is about freedom. Hint: freedom is not defined as forcing people to do what you want. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 20:21:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 956E7106566B for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:21:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45ED58FC15 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:21:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhgm50 with SMTP id m50so6015717yhg.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:21:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=sf3bnoBOYa8KuJxhVwLsVmhujUyWZpQhB0Oy782rKHo=; b=CeOOH+YU1FP5ASVDaQY9Vnj5xS7WLEzyFxuBuqAX1yQVw6plkGgl4ZD5ChTsero0hh bEEYMMnqb09nHa1jUGpE9gEOXQCo5eg09uzw6GvBUFvxPQQUqca2bxXmKw8Jt/a741Z+ 4KVHAWI0SCdSzKBU3BArzshAO02jy/kiiIXQM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=sf3bnoBOYa8KuJxhVwLsVmhujUyWZpQhB0Oy782rKHo=; b=cWuh+IZNp4VpwvwDTNaXBj2v8odRPSFQPbG7A1iDbJiZm5NJS68HsMv2AEEEtM8vpQ EHwNewKQj+8D2yKM+kGDrj7asz2KyGZ8084jd/RRg0Z2sCQYO89rC5xZlEE8fHBnZG64 63i8XKHofIgJ7uxGy7Lkm45fXuJGWLpa4X7c9A9gH14lbxEFJ8A3zSY9UZ0TLWxE2d58 BVwPvBrtW6BBdM9Y86EraM4tikAek7rehasv+9AyKVUaVF5vEU6swjKgfYncZmH4JNVA dmQ7zExfy8JkiL9A6VdVm1z7Z6zt4QvA7FpEV0YssguyURkceCmOponHBANjXgvMJBRR UDIg== Received: by 10.60.1.165 with SMTP id 5mr20752096oen.36.1340137284266; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:21:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.125.70 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:20:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Eitan Adler Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:20:53 -0700 Message-ID: To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmL7i+XoyjddyG0I6ZLgja4hLjuxyFJVKIxGGYVQWk1tpDH921od/F/wOt8IZJssjJSlJLx Cc: Polytropon , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:21:30 -0000 On 19 June 2012 12:58, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> >>> Does GPLv3 does force programs you compile with gcc to be GPLed? >> >> >> As far as I know, the main difference is that the GPLv3 is >> often called a "viral license". Software linking against v3 >> libraries and so maybe programs compiled by a v3 compiler >> will have - according to the license - to be released as >> v3 too. > > This word: "MAYBE" is most crucial here. This is false: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gcc-exception-faq.html > i wouldn't be surprised that FreeBSD team would decide to go back to gcc > soon. Unlikely. clang is much better on all the other fronts. Even if clang produces slightly slower code for math heavy code for now we don't care that much. The kernel does not spend much time in compute heavy code. :) -- Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 20:26:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C527E106564A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:26:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fred.morcos@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FC8C8FC14 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:26:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhgm50 with SMTP id m50so6021664yhg.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:26:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=HXPbcQRODemvfs7taPXSCgqt+kCMkdXUcIDFiUAzG1Y=; b=kpfbNsx2t/HrloPTALgMHz8R0zHgklVl2g8Kmk0sW+b5jl6MPRXp/GU61EZV4SPrO/ Z8R4hZVbo3Mvl82Tn02IkhD9gRZ3XZ54QMZZxmG33nNDT9fv4uZeRpiPxAxn1QT6TVzU e0OXS7zb8Of1WkQ/ZN53sfDrON6Dp0d6Ui+Z9GhRV5Fw4kkBbVIxm9PSxDsjNs1+Xh/n YUP8shQcg6R9I6JPfK4ZhUh10CHBUpM6O3Rbmsffm8hSCimg0MPsRe7D7VXpS9I5k0Sk dQBSlLUjWFcUMhrFNJx6zkTMsi4+3QjD8ZXKqs7xqmg/b24ewmOILOgrjeY9y1CpWJj1 5tCA== Received: by 10.60.21.234 with SMTP id y10mr21201385oee.0.1340137606945; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:26:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.241.7 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:26:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> References: <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> From: Fred Morcos Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:26:26 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Anonymous Remailer (austria)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:26:47 -0000 I don't see much fruit coming out of that conversation anymore. On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: > >> GPL protects the freedom of the programmer who licensed his >> code under those licenses: He wants it to be free for use, >> but not to be turned into closed source products. > > What a lying sonofabitch. That is not called freedom. That is called > "forcible, viral open source". I think we can all see the difference. Open > your motherfucking eyes, communist goofball... > >> A programmer who does not want to raise this barrier will >> typically use the BSD license which is "more free". > > No, it's just plain "free." > >> BSDL in opposite is often criticized a "rape me license". > > No, it is not, except perhaps by lying atheist Marxist bastards and his > religious adherents. > >> It explicitely (!) allows creating derivates in a closed >> source manner. This means that parts of BSD licensed code >> can be a key component in a proprietary closed source >> product that is for sale (e. g. a firewall appliance), >> and nobody will find out about that fact. > > Now you got it! GPL is about forcing people to do what /you/ want and BSD is > about letting them do what /they/ want. Let's see if you can guess which one > of those licenses is about freedom. Hint: freedom is not defined as forcing > people to do what you want. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 20:31:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C71AB1065670 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:31:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5539D8FC08 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:31:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5JKVfwr021405 for questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:31:41 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:31:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206192031.q5JKVfwr021405@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4FE08093.1040607@my.gd> Cc: Subject: Re: rm returns 0 although directory didn't exist and wasn't deleted ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:31:37 -0000 Damien Fleuriot wrote: > > I've stumbled upon this *so weird* behaviour. > > # ls -la /var/tmp/stunnel/ > ls: /var/tmp/stunnel/: No such file or directory > # rm -Rf /var/tmp/stunnel/ > # echo $? > 0 > > Anyone knows if that's intended ? yes. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 20:50:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33FB11065674 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:50:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D7CD8FC08 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:50:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-40-10.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.40.10]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10B283CCB3; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:50:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q5JKoDZQ002062; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:50:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:50:13 +0200 From: Polytropon To: "Anonymous Remailer (austria)" Message-Id: <20120619225013.2513e8bd.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> References: <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:50:16 -0000 On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:06:49 +0200 (CEST), Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: > > > GPL protects the freedom of the programmer who licensed his > > code under those licenses: He wants it to be free for use, > > but not to be turned into closed source products. > > What a lying sonofabitch. By insulting you think your arguments get any better? Sorry, it's not the case. > That is not called freedom. That is called > "forcible, viral open source". That's what I initially called "viral license" (or which, to be precise, is a phrase someone else invented, and which I just repeated). A developer is always the key person to decide what he will do with his source code. Giving it for free WITH NO SPECIAL RESTRICTIONS is a very generous act. (Note that this act does not mean he gives up copyright, the attribution that _he_ was the creator of the code!) If a developer wants to donate his work to the public, but does not want others to make money with his work, he will probably choose the GPL to release the source code. Others are allowed to modify it, to create derivate works and even use it in their products, as long as the requirement (which you may validly see as a restriction!) of "contribution back" is met. A much more strict requirement seems to be in the GPLv3 which limits those who "take" the open source. The "aspect of being viral" includes that the source will not be turned into closed source. The most negative effect is that GPLv3 licensed components may have side effects of non-GLPv3 licensed code. This is something worth seeing critically. > I think we can all see the difference. Open > your motherfucking eyes, communist goofball... All those insults fly back to you and therefore apply to you. It makes all your argumentation (which may be valid) futile. In fact, that kind of acting is a typical means of communist dictatures - using insulting language to actually avoid any discussion and instead strengthen the means of oppression! You should learn some history. And maybe calm down, as the hatred you're spreading is really unpleasant. > > A programmer who does not want to raise this barrier will > > typically use the BSD license which is "more free". > > No, it's just plain "free." Among the many licenses, the BSD license seems to be the most free license (or, the "only free license", which is a valid point of view), as it explicitely allows things that the GPL does not. Of course, there are different interpretations if this is a good or a bad thing. For a system like FreeBSD that wants to offer a free system (in the widest sense), GPLv3 system components (such as compilers) could be a no-go. > > BSDL in opposite is often criticized a "rape me license". > > No, it is not, except perhaps by lying atheist Marxist bastards and his > religious adherents. By "no, except" you have actually agreed that the statement is true, even if you tried to deny it. Again, please try to have some culture in discussion. Maybe you should also read Marx. :-) > > It explicitely (!) allows creating derivates in a closed > > source manner. This means that parts of BSD licensed code > > can be a key component in a proprietary closed source > > product that is for sale (e. g. a firewall appliance), > > and nobody will find out about that fact. > > Now you got it! GPL is about forcing people to do what /you/ want and BSD is > about letting them do what /they/ want. Licensing is about choosing - a main criteria of a free society. A developer is free to even keep his sources closed, to release them as GPL v2 or v3, or as BSDL (or choose from other licenses, or even write his own). In the next step, licenses have impact on how sources can be used. As I did explain, GPLv3 code may be problematic in this regards in certain environments. It may perfectly fit in others. As long as there's an agreement of the users of such source to accept the license, it's okay. What's _not_ okay is when the license forces you to do something you don't want to do, or simply can't do. > Let's see if you can guess which one > of those licenses is about freedom. Hint: freedom is not defined as forcing > people to do what you want. If people don't do what I want, they're limiting my freedom. :-) Seriously, you should pay more attention to what I wrote. Even though English is not my native language, I try to be as precise as possible, and if I can't do that (because a lack of knowledge, because of assumptions or deduction), I make clear that it is not the case. Hint: Read carefully: "I think", "as far as I know" or similar formulas are an indicator. Finally: Insulting me is not a way to go. It shows that you don't value the freedom of speech. Of course you are free to say whatever you want. But as soon as you insult people and limit their freedom, maybe even their right (moral right, not law) to have a polite and normal discussion on this list, you're not any better than the communists you hate that much. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 20:54:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA2B7106566C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:54:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root1101@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 358BF8FC16 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:54:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so7698972lbo.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:54:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=em3VkDCl8Mh8Zx8j6+eki8SE/lnBy7Gk9/RtL81LfEw=; b=f5h7xnoD+eVOgLJw6SH/0kXjELy2ADZlvAuOriKvbKte+lkAEd8XbpAhdXvP+9925G nbIByFvSwx2oFGckRJZaB0jKPvQIcMt0ixQ8pNhSMN4JhSqRgusNSpRnyVXc8Jr9UzhM SIuueASqGdaYAfoezeuw4zbBzdAgqBNcGIaWyYUFn2HExU2V/qMCuPwJyTMpyNByi/LC SxbZRNnsoxbJhSB1+0nXd4nMLVkmcg3+4MghmKBDzyKBtxEBeJkUx5ppMQtXpUpPsBdg rLPNdX9QzUb7xuPnnShOgTcbRFAtlRqDuKhsqnDZgfYb/4fdLMriRLUPPfzUkGMtg6kf +OmA== Received: by 10.152.122.12 with SMTP id lo12mr19820660lab.3.1340139248924; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:54:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (ppp91-79-239-71.pppoe.mtu-net.ru. [91.79.239.71]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j3sm14590991lbh.0.2012.06.19.13.54.07 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:54:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE0E739.8000104@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:55:21 +0400 From: =?windows-1251?Q?=C5=E2=E3=E5=ED=E8=E9_=CB=E0=EA=F2=E0=ED=EE=E2?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120420 Thunderbird/10.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> In-Reply-To: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:54:10 -0000 20.06.2012 00:06, Anonymous Remailer (austria) ďčřĺň: >> GPL protects the freedom of the programmer who licensed his >> code under those licenses: He wants it to be free for use, >> but not to be turned into closed source products. > What a lying sonofabitch. That is not called freedom. That is called > "forcible, viral open source". I think we can all see the difference. Open > your motherfucking eyes, communist goofball... > >> A programmer who does not want to raise this barrier will >> typically use the BSD license which is "more free". > No, it's just plain "free." > >> BSDL in opposite is often criticized a "rape me license". > No, it is not, except perhaps by lying atheist Marxist bastards and his > religious adherents. > >> It explicitely (!) allows creating derivates in a closed >> source manner. This means that parts of BSD licensed code >> can be a key component in a proprietary closed source >> product that is for sale (e. g. a firewall appliance), >> and nobody will find out about that fact. > Now you got it! GPL is about forcing people to do what /you/ want and BSD is > about letting them do what /they/ want. Let's see if you can guess which one > of those licenses is about freedom. Hint: freedom is not defined as forcing > people to do what you want. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Mmmmm, all that rage, all that conspiracy crap and especially the hypocrisy! I love it, this is here, my friends, a daily dose of quality entertainment. P.S. Topic is pretty much dead From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 21:08:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0EAC1065674 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:08:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root1101@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6F88FC0C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:08:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so7717070lbo.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:07:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KtK4E7rgd1p1N5kiX0wwZySYZofaW+wbPvVs/wZMuus=; b=YhCb6LZtsk+glHhRH/mZmKAITD8Xf9KOxNha1XbFxqzetMMQvV1RQtIhb5zN0tZaWG Fx4OEUKzoFeXD7Q6KFp70keEfehRm1TG+uQBRkgaUTemQn3yGlKFgNGUHEslIJnKVCrT eZSDXRIXu0KQbpZwZyiwsbI7PP04zAJKlf56YkKuAbrLLK1FXAF7ki50gBd2bFMPuUFm qZRjlpgTSOXyIYoAlIhuBsjnRNJgbxO05dbhMZcYcduv0tZ9FFjFURS4ME0f4a85HbH3 U0tOPlMTwn7eBnja1JdQx+2G1TSK7RNDPwwC16F2V11CIL1SCEh6X3jOjCCCwgTjFwe4 QGCg== Received: by 10.152.112.233 with SMTP id it9mr19644379lab.40.1340140079037; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (ppp91-79-239-71.pppoe.mtu-net.ru. [91.79.239.71]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n7sm14606723lbk.10.2012.06.19.14.07.56 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:07:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE0EA77.2010408@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:09:11 +0400 From: =?UTF-8?B?0JXQstCz0LXQvdC40Lkg0JvQsNC60YLQsNC90L7Qsg==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120420 Thunderbird/10.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <20120619225013.2513e8bd.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20120619225013.2513e8bd.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:08:01 -0000 20.06.2012 00:50, Polytropon пиŃет: > On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:06:49 +0200 (CEST), Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: >>> GPL protects the freedom of the programmer who licensed his >>> code under those licenses: He wants it to be free for use, >>> but not to be turned into closed source products. >> What a lying sonofabitch. > By insulting you think your arguments get any better? Sorry, > it's not the case. > > > >> That is not called freedom. That is called >> "forcible, viral open source". > That's what I initially called "viral license" (or which, to > be precise, is a phrase someone else invented, and which I > just repeated). > > A developer is always the key person to decide what he will > do with his source code. Giving it for free WITH NO SPECIAL > RESTRICTIONS is a very generous act. (Note that this act does > not mean he gives up copyright, the attribution that _he_ was > the creator of the code!) > > If a developer wants to donate his work to the public, but does > not want others to make money with his work, he will probably > choose the GPL to release the source code. Others are allowed > to modify it, to create derivate works and even use it in their > products, as long as the requirement (which you may validly see > as a restriction!) of "contribution back" is met. > > A much more strict requirement seems to be in the GPLv3 which > limits those who "take" the open source. The "aspect of being > viral" includes that the source will not be turned into closed > source. The most negative effect is that GPLv3 licensed components > may have side effects of non-GLPv3 licensed code. This is something > worth seeing critically. > > > >> I think we can all see the difference. Open >> your motherfucking eyes, communist goofball... > All those insults fly back to you and therefore apply to you. > It makes all your argumentation (which may be valid) futile. > In fact, that kind of acting is a typical means of communist > dictatures - using insulting language to actually avoid any > discussion and instead strengthen the means of oppression! > You should learn some history. And maybe calm down, as the > hatred you're spreading is really unpleasant. > > > >>> A programmer who does not want to raise this barrier will >>> typically use the BSD license which is "more free". >> No, it's just plain "free." > Among the many licenses, the BSD license seems to be the most > free license (or, the "only free license", which is a valid > point of view), as it explicitely allows things that the GPL > does not. > > Of course, there are different interpretations if this is a > good or a bad thing. For a system like FreeBSD that wants to > offer a free system (in the widest sense), GPLv3 system > components (such as compilers) could be a no-go. > > > >>> BSDL in opposite is often criticized a "rape me license". >> No, it is not, except perhaps by lying atheist Marxist bastards and his >> religious adherents. > By "no, except" you have actually agreed that the statement is > true, even if you tried to deny it. Again, please try to have > some culture in discussion. Maybe you should also read Marx. :-) > > > >>> It explicitely (!) allows creating derivates in a closed >>> source manner. This means that parts of BSD licensed code >>> can be a key component in a proprietary closed source >>> product that is for sale (e. g. a firewall appliance), >>> and nobody will find out about that fact. >> Now you got it! GPL is about forcing people to do what /you/ want and BSD is >> about letting them do what /they/ want. > Licensing is about choosing - a main criteria of a free society. > A developer is free to even keep his sources closed, to release > them as GPL v2 or v3, or as BSDL (or choose from other licenses, > or even write his own). > > In the next step, licenses have impact on how sources can be used. > As I did explain, GPLv3 code may be problematic in this regards in > certain environments. It may perfectly fit in others. As long as > there's an agreement of the users of such source to accept the > license, it's okay. > > What's _not_ okay is when the license forces you to do something > you don't want to do, or simply can't do. > > > >> Let's see if you can guess which one >> of those licenses is about freedom. Hint: freedom is not defined as forcing >> people to do what you want. > If people don't do what I want, they're limiting my freedom. :-) > > Seriously, you should pay more attention to what I wrote. Even > though English is not my native language, I try to be as precise > as possible, and if I can't do that (because a lack of knowledge, > because of assumptions or deduction), I make clear that it is not > the case. Hint: Read carefully: "I think", "as far as I know" or > similar formulas are an indicator. > > Finally: Insulting me is not a way to go. It shows that you don't > value the freedom of speech. Of course you are free to say whatever > you want. But as soon as you insult people and limit their freedom, > maybe even their right (moral right, not law) to have a polite and > normal discussion on this list, you're not any better than the > communists you hate that much. > > People like that have a very-very skewered views on freedom ... One can say hypocritical and immature From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 21:22:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6AED106566C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:22:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2DF8FC15 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:22:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-40-10.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.40.10]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C95B93CD99; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:22:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q5JLMdrf002181; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:22:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:22:39 +0200 From: Polytropon To: =?UTF-8?B?0JXQstCz0LXQvdC40Lkg0JvQsNC60YLQsNC90L7Qsg==?= Message-Id: <20120619232239.925d0aa4.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <4FE0EA77.2010408@gmail.com> References: <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <20120619225013.2513e8bd.freebsd@edvax.de> <4FE0EA77.2010408@gmail.com> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:22:41 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:09:11 +0400, Евгений Лактанов wrote: > 20.06.2012 00:50, Polytropon пиŃет: > > On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:06:49 +0200 (CEST), Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: > >>> GPL protects the freedom of the programmer who licensed his > >>> code under those licenses: He wants it to be free for use, > >>> but not to be turned into closed source products. > >> What a lying sonofabitch. > > By insulting you think your arguments get any better? Sorry, > > it's not the case. > > > > > > > >> That is not called freedom. That is called > >> "forcible, viral open source". > > That's what I initially called "viral license" (or which, to > > be precise, is a phrase someone else invented, and which I > > just repeated). > > > > A developer is always the key person to decide what he will > > do with his source code. Giving it for free WITH NO SPECIAL > > RESTRICTIONS is a very generous act. (Note that this act does > > not mean he gives up copyright, the attribution that _he_ was > > the creator of the code!) > > > > If a developer wants to donate his work to the public, but does > > not want others to make money with his work, he will probably > > choose the GPL to release the source code. Others are allowed > > to modify it, to create derivate works and even use it in their > > products, as long as the requirement (which you may validly see > > as a restriction!) of "contribution back" is met. > > > > A much more strict requirement seems to be in the GPLv3 which > > limits those who "take" the open source. The "aspect of being > > viral" includes that the source will not be turned into closed > > source. The most negative effect is that GPLv3 licensed components > > may have side effects of non-GLPv3 licensed code. This is something > > worth seeing critically. > > > > > > > >> I think we can all see the difference. Open > >> your motherfucking eyes, communist goofball... > > All those insults fly back to you and therefore apply to you. > > It makes all your argumentation (which may be valid) futile. > > In fact, that kind of acting is a typical means of communist > > dictatures - using insulting language to actually avoid any > > discussion and instead strengthen the means of oppression! > > You should learn some history. And maybe calm down, as the > > hatred you're spreading is really unpleasant. > > > > > > > >>> A programmer who does not want to raise this barrier will > >>> typically use the BSD license which is "more free". > >> No, it's just plain "free." > > Among the many licenses, the BSD license seems to be the most > > free license (or, the "only free license", which is a valid > > point of view), as it explicitely allows things that the GPL > > does not. > > > > Of course, there are different interpretations if this is a > > good or a bad thing. For a system like FreeBSD that wants to > > offer a free system (in the widest sense), GPLv3 system > > components (such as compilers) could be a no-go. > > > > > > > >>> BSDL in opposite is often criticized a "rape me license". > >> No, it is not, except perhaps by lying atheist Marxist bastards and his > >> religious adherents. > > By "no, except" you have actually agreed that the statement is > > true, even if you tried to deny it. Again, please try to have > > some culture in discussion. Maybe you should also read Marx. :-) > > > > > > > >>> It explicitely (!) allows creating derivates in a closed > >>> source manner. This means that parts of BSD licensed code > >>> can be a key component in a proprietary closed source > >>> product that is for sale (e. g. a firewall appliance), > >>> and nobody will find out about that fact. > >> Now you got it! GPL is about forcing people to do what /you/ want and BSD is > >> about letting them do what /they/ want. > > Licensing is about choosing - a main criteria of a free society. > > A developer is free to even keep his sources closed, to release > > them as GPL v2 or v3, or as BSDL (or choose from other licenses, > > or even write his own). > > > > In the next step, licenses have impact on how sources can be used. > > As I did explain, GPLv3 code may be problematic in this regards in > > certain environments. It may perfectly fit in others. As long as > > there's an agreement of the users of such source to accept the > > license, it's okay. > > > > What's _not_ okay is when the license forces you to do something > > you don't want to do, or simply can't do. > > > > > > > >> Let's see if you can guess which one > >> of those licenses is about freedom. Hint: freedom is not defined as forcing > >> people to do what you want. > > If people don't do what I want, they're limiting my freedom. :-) > > > > Seriously, you should pay more attention to what I wrote. Even > > though English is not my native language, I try to be as precise > > as possible, and if I can't do that (because a lack of knowledge, > > because of assumptions or deduction), I make clear that it is not > > the case. Hint: Read carefully: "I think", "as far as I know" or > > similar formulas are an indicator. > > > > Finally: Insulting me is not a way to go. It shows that you don't > > value the freedom of speech. Of course you are free to say whatever > > you want. But as soon as you insult people and limit their freedom, > > maybe even their right (moral right, not law) to have a polite and > > normal discussion on this list, you're not any better than the > > communists you hate that much. > > > > > People like that have a very-very skewered views on freedom ... One can > say hypocritical and immature I assume it's just an aspect of "still being too young" in regards of missing the difference between freedom and anarchy: the right to extend one's freedom is limited as soon as it limits the freedom of others. Maybe another aspect is the lack of discussion culture and the proper use of means of language. You often find such behaviour among school children of the lower grades. Using words without knowing their meaning is very typical for people in puberty. :-) Okay, to try to come back on topic, especially regarding the use of CLANG as a system compiler: I recently read the following interesting article which I want to throw into the discussion: John Regehr: The Little C Function From Hell http://blog.regehr.org/archives/482 It's more a minor observation than an evaluation of CLANG, but this article shows a significant change of how CLANG handles (char) meeting it's margin CHAR_MAX vs. (int) in a C function call. The impressing thing here is that CLANG 2.7 vs. rev. 126534 seems to bring a massive change on how the compiler handles certain boundaries and implicit type conversions. I _may_ assume that this is something "quite normal" during the evolution and improvement of a compiler, but it could become critical when used at system level. If FreeBSD chooses CLANG as the default system compiler and the primary compiler for ports (instead of sticking with the "well proven", but old GCC, and _not_ moving to a newer GPLv3 GCC), I hope the performed tests have made sure that the new compiler will work properly in all imaginable cases. Finally, the article illustrates that the depicted bug has been corrected in LLVM/CLANG within 24 hours, which is a good thing, and it emphasizes _quality_ of the product, which is the right attitude in my opinion. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 22:53:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E30C106564A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:53:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevin@rootbsd.daleco.biz) Received: from rootbsd.daleco.biz (daleco.biz [199.48.129.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB22B8FC18 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:53:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rootbsd.daleco.biz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rootbsd.daleco.biz (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5JMeSmf075561; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:40:28 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kevin@rootbsd.daleco.biz) Received: (from kevin@localhost) by rootbsd.daleco.biz (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id q5JMeS5m075560; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:40:28 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kevin) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:40:28 -0500 From: Kevin Kinsey To: Allen Message-ID: <20120619224028.GA73113@rootbsd.daleco.biz> References: <4FDFEAAE.7090807@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FDFEAAE.7090807@comcast.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: An idea I have! X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:53:28 -0000 On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 10:57:50PM -0400, Allen wrote: > Hello all! > > So, I'm sitting here watching True Blood, and also checking my Email, > and updating my Ports, and a thought hits me; Wouldn't it be a cool way > to do FreeBSD Advocacy, by making a BSD based band??? > > And the name would be so simple! "The BSD Boys" !! (Yea I know, BSD has > been sued enough lol, but come on, you have to admit that "Beastie" as a > mascot, the name was chosen and meant to be pronounced "BSD" because > "Beastie" sort of sounds like that when said out loud. > > I could even try writing a song like "BSD Licensed to Init" or something > else moderately funny ;) Ohh!!! "License to Kill -9" ;) > > I know some of this is just silly and all, but in my experience, most of > you have a very good sense of humor, and it's almost 11 PM right now, > and I have to get up for work at 1:30 AM, so, between the no sleep > thing, and me having to much to do right now, I needed a little break, > and, well, I like humor, and making people laugh. > > Of course, this COULD actually be a neat idea if done right lol. > Anyway, I Hope someone gets a good laugh out of this. I'm generally > actually pretty good with coming up with ideas, as I'm usually pretty > creative for the most part, and, well, what can I say? I'm sitting here > in one of my Christmas Presents (Oldschool FreeBSD "Power to Serve" Tee > Shirt) and I thought "Hey, I wonder if I can try this out". Anyway, I > can probably come up with way more than this, and if anyone likes it, or > thinks it's funny, I'll try more :) > > If nothing else, I Hope it gives someone a laugh, > > -Allen I did smile, for sure. Do you suppose we could have grog@ on bassoon? Slightly more seriously, look WAY back in the archives (well, less than 15 years, more than 5) and see if you can find W. Palfreman's take on the Beatles "Let it Be". "BSD, BSD, BSD, yeah, BSD ... there will be an answer..." I don't know if I could perform with such a group, but I'd be interested in helping produce the studio work. Unfortunately, my audio box runs Windows. Win98, AAMOF. My synth is on its last legs, too. Kevin Kinsey PS > I found it for ya: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-chat/2004-March/002195.html From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 00:52:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B08106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:52:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dmtilbrook@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 810388FC12 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:52:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so90855obb.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:52:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Bf4RcE3KUHwtK2HEscJ1GsoEX5un7QsVOoN5VI7S2lo=; b=caldTvyywO4LypPY/1ObTqGNT/qvuIDEqRrYrvP930JPSSY17J+y4UJT02nmFKw1x3 oHcx+IHEUsxi9WaOizkVOOLjqEqI4TQp0nNb8pVlcQ3slzc499rMYnnSmNNXqK5ziR0f fyzJPuq4Nj0pDym9xeZBELnmNge+qr9PbvtZgqjMDjtT3+XG2ixsnX0p03/4XaIV2iF1 jDfXsjxBp55ME5MRo+BR12nxivniKdgd/9T2ybcH3qm3sqHkEgcYDV/oGF2CNQWyZS31 gAQqxQYLrO0vf6julBGRBbdIlvPTtxInwFcrS7wNSj9+M/L6t68tPvaK7OLoH6ELXRTk K0gA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.202.38 with SMTP id kf6mr21813007obc.63.1340153579008; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.133.2 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:52:58 -0400 Message-ID: From: David Tilbrook To: tlug , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Subject: Attaching a monitor via vga X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:52:59 -0000 I have a thinkpad t61p running freebsd9.0. The window size is 1680x1050 -- a reasonable size -- but the screen itself is 38cm. (15") which is irritatingly small for my old eyes. So I want to attach an external monitor via a vga cable, which I have been doing with my RedHat thinkpad A31P for years. I tried attaching Asus VE228H (1920x1080) but it would display only part of the window (the top-left corner). I get a similar behaviour with a Samsung SyncMaster. When I tried to xinit with the monitor attached, it displays an even smaller part of the screen. (On my previous thinkpad with a Samsung, to get a reasonable full window I had to unplug the vga, start xinit, and then plug in the vga, but I can live with that.) My questions: 1) What can I do to display the whole window on an external monitor? 2) Is there a monitor out there that would better support such use? 3) Would a Samsung T220HD 22" which claims to support 1680x1050 work, and is there someone in Toronto who sells it and would let me test it? (Craigs list doesn't qualify). -- david From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 02:25:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78C5F106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:25:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C5298FC15 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:25:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5K2P4Yh013975; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:25:06 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:22:44 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201206200922.44032.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tlug , David Tilbrook Subject: Re: Attaching a monitor via vga X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:25:12 -0000 Hi, On Wednesday 20 June 2012 07:52:58 David Tilbrook wrote: > I have a thinkpad t61p running freebsd9.0. The window size is 1680x1050 > -- a reasonable size -- but the screen itself is 38cm. (15") which is > irritatingly > small for my old eyes. > yeah, the age. > So I want to attach an external monitor via a vga cable, which I have been > doing with my RedHat thinkpad A31P for years. Do you still have access to the xorg.conf? Try to set a single configuration which only supports the native resolution of that screen. You also could have a test with a normal PC and the monitor. Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 03:08:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AE72106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:08:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy8-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy8.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D2428FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:08:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 3074 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jun 2012 03:08:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy8.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2012 03:08:54 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=6bQWaJrsrjQsJaQOO/UnECet2NJVRBFMmmSFDEbrKKM=; b=Vo4TmjMRTPE7FWugdwrl+6KFN98b5Gb5M37qAJJoq91Ac8bjUb9M8/kHqQdefZX5SsMR8DQjKJKPf48ma8yPOkrmKd8pI0RcgiiXb9b0t3HP66je4If70huH85Lb98uV; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=62291 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShBHq-0002Rx-EU for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:08:54 -0600 Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:08:54 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620030854.GA15821@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:08:55 -0000 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:06:49PM +0200, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: > > > > GPL protects the freedom of the programmer who licensed his > > code under those licenses: He wants it to be free for use, > > but not to be turned into closed source products. > > What a lying sonofabitch. That is not called freedom. That is called > "forcible, viral open source". I think we can all see the difference. Open > your motherfucking eyes, communist goofball... Give him a break. His heart is in the right place, though his choice of phrasing may have been imperfect in this case. He was, it seems to me, trying to take an even-handed approach to describing the positions of both sides of a contentious matter, and letting the reader make up his or her own mind about it. In fact, if there's any bias showing in what he said, I think it leans toward copyfree licenses like the various BSD licenses, rather than toward copyleft licenses such as the various GNU licenses. There are better targets than Polytropon for your ire. > > > > A programmer who does not want to raise this barrier will > > typically use the BSD license which is "more free". > > No, it's just plain "free." This would seem like a much more reasonable statement if it was not preceded by your immediately prior invective. > > > > BSDL in opposite is often criticized a "rape me license". > > No, it is not, except perhaps by lying atheist Marxist bastards and his > religious adherents. Yes, it is often criticized that way -- by people who, in my considered opinion, have their heads up their asses -- and the fact that Polytropon pointed out this simple fact does not make him a bad person. It's also worth noting that a lot of the people who make such ridiculous comments about copyfree licenses are often not atheists, Marxists, or bastards. They're often just nuts. . . . and what's wrong with being an atheist? I'm not an atheist (more of an agnostic Taoist), but if someone wants to believe he or she has absolute knowledge of the (non-)existence of any god, that's his or her prerogative. I would judge such a person no more harshly than a devoted monotheist. Your beliefs are your own affair; only your behavior, as it affects other people, is of particular concern to me. In the particular venue of a FreeBSD mailing list, my interest narrows further to exclude things that have nothing to do with FreeBSD and associated software, community, and so on. I don't see how "atheist" is a meaningful insult, especially when we're talking about software, or how it can be gleaned from someone's licensing preferences. > > > > It explicitely (!) allows creating derivates in a closed > > source manner. This means that parts of BSD licensed code > > can be a key component in a proprietary closed source > > product that is for sale (e. g. a firewall appliance), > > and nobody will find out about that fact. > > Now you got it! GPL is about forcing people to do what /you/ want and BSD is > about letting them do what /they/ want. Let's see if you can guess which one > of those licenses is about freedom. Hint: freedom is not defined as forcing > people to do what you want. This would probably be a better-received statement if the rest of your commentary in the same email was not mostly about (probably entirely inaccurate) insults flung at someone for failing to use the specific phrasing you prefer when referring to the crazies who believe using software distributed under a copyfree license is an act of pure evil. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 03:10:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC679106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:10:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivares14031@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92FB68FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:10:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so6126819ghb.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:10:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=h6den3F2GufNw1aYsx2uQqYvZAZZbdhPG4dd/7Drzb4=; b=TvmRlkyOHLEoScxlA5m5WKRhVwQ4J7QBX0VchrntTx/N2bqkoXz1lcbmW9qMrLvjp/ kFRlTDeqHnnZ13+Ld5URVLwE0p3uvK2gnQOVFztRnKCYE5ApfxxRKfLVAib5/hLSuWAg LkYqH35zTNCEXO+apLuFGKdOXjRwbgAON76NdL3FB557uT1Q3q9lxMgs31Zyh6vlNEj5 Jo1J2xZfzABqjsLA4H7YFhvPocq8blNsqZWW4/jtISU0WwQPDSy3ml2FlK2umRoejg+c YI6xjgsLTrK1BzlGWu6eFDR+rFxHq212OdTKGdGSPvxzTK8pcD1Ai+RmYyrCi83SZsa2 izyQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.208.105 with SMTP id md9mr3163010igc.12.1340161806826; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.112.4 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:10:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201206190110.q5J1AorD015312@mail.r-bonomi.com> <201206190130.q5J1UQ1C015381@mail.r-bonomi.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:10:06 -0500 Message-ID: From: Antonio Olivares To: Warren Block Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Robert Bonomi Subject: Re: converting mpost(ed) files individually to eps X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:10:08 -0000 On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Warren Block wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jun 2012, Antonio Olivares wrote: > >> But I get error in line 16: >> >> $ ./mpost-eps webfig >> ./mpost-eps: 16: Syntax error: word unexpected >> >> =A0for file in file.* =A0do > > > Either put the "do" on the next line, or put a ; before it: > > > for file in file.* ; do Moving the do to the next line does it :) Thanks for helping! Regards, Antonio From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 03:28:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64E2A10656FB for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:28:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy6-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy6.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a6]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 18B0E8FC14 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:28:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 26395 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jun 2012 03:28:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by cpoproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2012 03:28:24 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=1/E5Pqm91RNTEQquBY6KyTGUYpDUQmqltwbPJFGC8qM=; b=Xc2o5EibPOlzYlS963hOHPob44ugWVTGQe2DV5CgofqH71TPQeFe6s3XCkFmSrU2RueUd6aAC/yKrhizv2wBpttqt1TP+wHhunyLm1ku7arqdltStnIup0q9m6m0pBvS; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=62609 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShBai-0005E0-As for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:28:24 -0600 Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:28:24 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620032824.GD15821@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Attaching a monitor via vga X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:28:25 -0000 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 08:52:58PM -0400, David Tilbrook wrote: > I have a thinkpad t61p running freebsd9.0. The window size is 1680x1050 > -- a reasonable size -- but the screen itself is 38cm. (15") which is > irritatingly > small for my old eyes. > > So I want to attach an external monitor via a vga cable, which I have been > doing with my RedHat thinkpad A31P for years. > > I tried attaching Asus VE228H (1920x1080) but it would display > only part of the window (the top-left corner). I get a similar behaviour > with a Samsung SyncMaster. > > When I tried to xinit with the monitor attached, it displays an even smaller > part of the screen. (On my previous thinkpad with a Samsung, to get a > reasonable full window I had to unplug the vga, start xinit, and then plug > in the vga, but I can live with that.) > > My questions: > > 1) What can I do to display the whole window on an external monitor? > 2) Is there a monitor out there that would better support such use? > 3) Would a Samsung T220HD 22" which claims to support 1680x1050 > work, and is there someone in Toronto who sells it and would let > me test it? (Craigs list doesn't qualify). You probably want to look into using the xrandr command to configure output for connected monitors. Try this first: xrandr --auto If that does not work, you may have to do something more sophisticated. For instance, I have a shell script that looks like this for when I connect my laptop to an external monitor: #!/bin/sh xrandr --auto xrandr --output LVDS1 --off xrandr --newmode "1680x1050_60.00" 146.25 1680 1784 1960 2240 1050 1053 1059 1089 -hsync +vsync xrandr --addmode VGA1 1680x1050_60.00 xrandr --output VGA1 --mode 1680x1050_60.00 xli -onroot -border black -center /path/to/enso_16x9.png You should use this to find out the name of the display you identify in the --output line: xrandr -q You'll need to get information about your monitor's display parameters for the --newmode line, and the --addmode and --mode lines uses the same resolution string as in the --newmode line. The xli line is there just to re-apply my background image, because it gets a little out of whack when I change monitors like that. When I'm going to disconnect from the external monitor, I run "xrandr --auto" before disconnecting to get the laptop to recognize my laptop's built-in display again, then run "xrandr --auto" one more time after disconnecting the external monitor to get it to forget about the settings for the external monitor so my laptop display won't act "funny" because it "thinks" there's a larger external monitor still attached. I hope that helps. Let me know if you want any more information about how this works. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 04:26:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 760A11065673 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:26:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D94A58FC14 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:26:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5K4QD4a070961; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:26:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5K4QDHR070958; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:26:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:26:13 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Michel Talon In-Reply-To: <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:26:14 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:26:21 -0000 i tested your test program, and in that case, contrary to testing common unix programs, difference is far higher showing gcc superiority. i did this test with FreeBSD 9 supplied clang and FreeBSD 9 supplied gcc. clearly shows that clang actually cannot do more agressive optimization (that trades space) at all, and at -O2 is far slower. produced: -rwxr-xr-x 1 tmp tmp 11168 20 cze 06:18 test.cc.O2 -rwxr-xr-x 1 tmp tmp 17024 20 cze 06:18 test.cc.O3 -rwxr-xr-x 1 tmp tmp 17024 20 cze 06:18 test.cc.O9 -rwxr-xr-x 1 tmp tmp 11096 20 cze 06:18 test.clang.O2 -rwxr-xr-x 1 tmp tmp 11096 20 cze 06:18 test.clang.O3 cc.O2: real 0m2.877s user 0m2.829s sys 0m0.030s cc.O3: real 0m2.142s user 0m2.131s sys 0m0.000s cc.09: real 0m2.071s user 0m2.054s sys 0m0.008s clang.O2: real 0m3.440s user 0m3.405s sys 0m0.018s clang.O3: real 0m3.217s user 0m3.205s sys 0m0.001s How about leaving politics and getting back to technical grounds? >From what i know now GPLv3 isn't really a problem for us, your may freely distribute binary only software compiled by latest gcc. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 04:40:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CAD21065673 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:40:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECAEF8FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:40:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5K4eWsH016687; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:40:52 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:40:31 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206201140.31525.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: Wojciech Puchar , Michel Talon Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:40:54 -0000 Hi, On Wednesday 20 June 2012 11:26:13 Wojciech Puchar wrote: > How about leaving politics and getting back to technical grounds? what is the problem as long as gcc is in the ports tree? Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 04:45:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EE7D106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:45:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3DDC8FC17 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:45:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5K4jHlJ071048; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:45:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5K4jGox071045; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:45:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:45:16 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chad Perrin In-Reply-To: <20120620030854.GA15821@hemlock.hydra> Message-ID: References: <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <20120620030854.GA15821@hemlock.hydra> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:45:17 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:45:24 -0000 >>> but not to be turned into closed source products. >> >> What a lying sonofabitch. That is not called freedom. That is called >> "forcible, viral open source". I think we can all see the difference. Open >> your motherfucking eyes, communist goofball... > > Give him a break. His heart is in the right place, though his choice of GNU licence is nothing about freedom, it just says it is freedom. But what really is important for FreeBSD is if it can be used. IMHO nothing from GPLv3 prevents it, and it is no licence based reasons to use clang. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 04:46:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 938E51065673 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:46:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0397A8FC19 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:46:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5K4kK7o071054; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:46:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5K4kKfm071051; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:46:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:46:20 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Erich Dollansky In-Reply-To: <201206201140.31525.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <201206201140.31525.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:46:20 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Michel Talon Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:46:21 -0000 > >> How about leaving politics and getting back to technical grounds? > > what is the problem as long as gcc is in the ports tree? what is a problem as clang is in the ports tree? the problem is that these compilers are not 100% compatible and soon if clang will be default it will be not just easy to build freebsd with gcc. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 04:57:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E46C3106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:57:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amvandemore@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 703518FC14 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:57:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so6975328wgb.31 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:57:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=mM55upytplpZL8I1EJj33StXHh3RQJP+bmsAjcIVHi4=; b=MsDE09uG2wIot0QZDHfSDUUJIczXKy0Dd/8s6ZPCp7nIvS2gXTWsOomS5CrLdtaYdC XuNImmPt4DDrvCzRfrbvk9o8sRQ/kGeRQwLbBn+4YaEwKB/yAr0DbYM8RpX8YxO2Kalp M5o3U5sdYGgitlxmg0ML/muNAkkzkIibhExP1gAheAfIoB0kMkZAmSnYgDFB6Hr/amhi DJbia2XOUwQ0jOLW/5SU2A0HR+pp71XRHqPp02b5Uznt6FglQkQI7+km5x8+h2dFVIDa 6fXivhUmJpk7a6UpurJ18lzxazjGf8cy1Q/gjtdSs8Q8+pJ25A6MuL7JaieaWlqrVR0j hzSg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.204.88 with SMTP id g66mr11695967weo.79.1340168257053; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.88.155 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:57:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:57:37 -0500 Message-ID: From: Adam Vande More To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Michel Talon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:57:39 -0000 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:26 PM, Wojciech Puchar < wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote: > i tested your test program, and in that case, contrary to testing common > unix programs, difference is far higher showing gcc superiority. > > i did this test with FreeBSD 9 supplied clang and FreeBSD 9 supplied gcc. > > clearly shows that clang actually cannot do more agressive optimization > (that trades space) at all, and at -O2 is far slower. > Yes, Clang in general produces slower binaries than gcc. Is that in dispute or something? Or is this just repetition in case we didn't hear you the first time? Try thinking of the transition as a step back to take many steps forward. Or just change your compiler. Complaining on this list is definitely the wrong place though. Those who have offended your sensibilities by moving to Clang don't live here. People have already done nice work on the benchmarks: http://blog.vx.sk/archives/25-FreeBSD-Compiler-Benchmark-gcc-base-vs-gcc-ports-vs-clang.html -- Adam Vande More From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 05:18:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E181106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:18:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 679618FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:18:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5K5Ihxk071183; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:18:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5K5Ih6m071180; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:18:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:18:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Adam Vande More In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="2456600518-732062402-1340169523=:71176" X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:18:44 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Michel Talon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:18:45 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --2456600518-732062402-1340169523=:71176 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > Yes, Clang in general produces slower binaries than gcc.  Is that in dispute or something?  Or is this just repetition in case we > didn't hear you the first time? just yesterday i've heard lots of otherwise claim. > > Try thinking of the transition as a step back to take many steps forward. What exactly step forward it means? For now i see ONLY politics and aggression after pointing out facts. This doesn't look like serious behaviour of serious people. >  Or just change your compiler. Will i be able to compile FreeBSD base system with gcc after some time? not sure. --2456600518-732062402-1340169523=:71176-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 05:31:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 114F6106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:31:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E8958FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:31:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5K5Vs6H027991; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:31:55 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: Wojciech Puchar Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:31:52 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <201206201140.31525.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206201231.52725.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Michel Talon Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:31:59 -0000 Hi, On Wednesday 20 June 2012 11:46:20 Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >> How about leaving politics and getting back to technical grounds? > > > > what is the problem as long as gcc is in the ports tree? > > what is a problem as clang is in the ports tree? for the port? It does not make a difference. > > the problem is that these compilers are not 100% compatible and soon if > clang will be default it will be not just easy to build freebsd with gcc. For the kernel? How old is the gcc which comes with the kernel? Why are newer versions not in the base system? Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 06:02:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FFA9106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:02:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joe.gain@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com (mail-wi0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04CD78FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:02:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhm11 with SMTP id hm11so1168080wib.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:02:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=em4NW8hsbfn9rSHjQ7/djhAPswO0/7HrHoRzKnrHfFE=; b=vvsUMb65xhtgTUu9ZlgarZVcrppXXl+VqZ90KAlhRw7xiIf+t4Oh6SG8mRZBgBSec5 yfEZr4sh4oPubLIoyzpP+V8jFtGDNYoVZ00Vjo2v3p65n/Bf4vyXkb6NcCpjb8/7uBT6 3a8q6cU6ixsDxdiEUp8nsvpxpvXdaZtCggAf4lIzRl/deE3l5vA+RqIOVOxcleXzQ/9X Ooq6PJcJfAh9fYKtjjj/EnthNWmw1g6H0bwBQnIAyIBhYe8pG7W+1mx0pLuWxVMyClLn g0+1FZujEubc4niA7W1wCSdvZrGjfC3tP11yELiL07PaQ1wYR7ttYwD6cAUGgdZkIPmQ RALw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.218.216 with SMTP id k66mr10981680wep.191.1340172172714; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.220.96 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:02:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:02:52 +0200 Message-ID: From: Joe Gain To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:02:54 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> Yes, Clang in general produces slower binaries than gcc. =A0Is that in >> dispute or something? =A0Or is this just repetition in case we >> didn't hear you the first time? > > > just yesterday i've heard lots of otherwise claim. > > >> >> Try thinking of the transition as a step back to take many steps forward= . > > > What exactly step forward it means? > For now i see ONLY politics and aggression after pointing out facts. > > This doesn't look like serious behaviour of serious people. > I think that this is a more complicated decision than just choosing the 'fastest' compiler. There are many other variables involved, and of course the decision has a political dimension. Most things do. Diversity and competition are nice attributes to have in a system. Having alternatives allows users choose a compiler based on what criteria they think are important. Users also benefit from the experience, but more importantly, for such non-trivial projects as LLVM, different designs are interesting in themselves. I personally, am looking forward to seeing what the lldb debugger can do. Historically, some of the most important software projects have been themselves disasters, but they've lead people to change the way they think about a problem and lead to later better solutions-- for example MULTICS ;) This is part of the development process. And this can't just happen in a laboratory. LLVM needs projects like FreeBS= D to test it and simply be involved. I notice that bitrig, which recently forked from OpenBSD, and which want to be a more progressive operating system will also be swapping to LLVM and Clang. We don't know what possible benefits there will be from the LLVM project. But there will be some. I was a bit frustrated about being stuck with gcc4.2 for a while, and was trying to compile as many ports as possible using gcc4.6 (FreeBSD 8.2). There seemed to be some improvement in performance, but now I don't bother, world is compiled with Clang and the ports are compiled with gcc4.2 and everything works (most of the time.) I'm satisfied with performance. I don't really understand your concerns. I mean unless you're a fairly radical environmentalist and are really concerned about saving every clock-cycle, running a bit slower really isn't that much of a problem most of the time. > >> =A0Or just change your compiler. > > Will i be able to compile FreeBSD base system with gcc after some time? > not sure. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" --=20 joe gain jacob-burckhardt-str. 16 78464 konstanz germany +49 (0)7531 60389 (...otherwise in ???) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 06:12:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF65410656D1 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:12:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amvandemore@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f42.google.com (mail-wg0-f42.google.com [74.125.82.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 549E38FC12 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:12:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so3319742wgb.1 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:12:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=JKMKE12a37ABTioQvVsxl+t/dgNEw3dSM2qLyn7XHz4=; b=mD/osD7ldCAjJyVSfkApGB4UvQzfIGqwdLk4zBUa87cJ3Y5T7M3EWT5kSuU4Ec07mF oWAvYUjw5ywxgmB0Jynv7yePzjWgPgOqkf+Hmk6I6i8hcbmgLtOAr4dIqLsED4fek1Mh DYLHTzooyAxFV7Q6G8Qm16/OthVMsao0AQabvJv983JelLibmtyvE3R6mo4XDjaiK+Ld v/TrA31M7JV4EXW/VF72azJOk219rkI9NG0W4J/0mCaqsgHPct5dC4HALk60Uo2y+sMc Nb0p8QaOxGHwb8pffoytIFEO4w6Atm2A5K0+zT3HSUqonaxFno07Vmr7fqMq6x+A5Ud0 a/oQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.101.103 with SMTP id ff7mr9156039wib.6.1340172721038; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.88.155 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:12:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:12:00 -0500 Message-ID: From: Adam Vande More To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Michel Talon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:12:02 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:18 AM, Wojciech Puchar < wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote: > Yes, Clang in general produces slower binaries than gcc. Is that in >> dispute or something? Or is this just repetition in case we >> didn't hear you the first time? >> > > just yesterday i've heard lots of otherwise claim. > > > >> Try thinking of the transition as a step back to take many steps forward. >> > > What exactly step forward it means? > These are a few: http://clang.llvm.org/comparison.html#gcc And the performance overall in clang is gaining more rapidly than gcc. At it's present rate, it won't be long until your are complaining for clang to be the default if that is your primary objection. Other factors have pushed this change into motion sooner than perhaps desirable for some. However, it is inevitable given the licensing barriers and the project's long term goals. Eliminating, or at least not being dependent on a GNU toolchain. GPL v3 brings with it a whole host problems such as: http://www.tech-faq.com/linux-licensing-in-conflict-with-secure-boot-support.html Those licensing issues may not be an issue for you, but they are for many of the targets FreeBSD wishes to serve so keeping the base system as unpolluted as possible is important. -- Adam Vande More From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 06:12:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADFA9106574E for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:12:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) Received: from zoom.lafn.org (zoom.lafn.org [108.92.93.123]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A43E8FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:12:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (pool-96-229-186-65.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [96.229.186.65]) (authenticated bits=0) by zoom.lafn.org (8.14.3/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5K6CbOg085340 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:12:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) From: Doug Hardie Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:12:37 -0700 Message-Id: To: FreeBSD Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97 at zoom.lafn.org X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: Problem with freebsd-update X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:12:43 -0000 I tried to update an amd64 FreeBSD 9.0 p0 system via freebsd-update = tonight. It fetched everything fine. However, the install just hung = after about 10 minutes. The 2 sh processes are basically doing nothing. = Not consuming any processor time and not doing any I/O. I killed it = and tried another install. Same thing. Tried a rollback. Same thing. = The system still runs mostly. Top takes about 5 minutes before it = produces any output. It shows basically nothing running. I really = don't want to reinstall again as the system has a lot of files = customized including many ports. Is there any way to recover this? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 06:13:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3879A1065673 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:13:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fernando.apesteguia@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A49228FC21 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:13:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so184504lbo.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:13:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=NVuIsxqhLA5bI/5+hGKTeUgA9JsXJHHI2kY/HRfFeC4=; b=b8mrqG6Uri4kv58OYceqrj777s69ML8PSLknjwcNacuqKwahT5NPaH6Dh7FhXPSttB 0aHZmOsmhr2wP2fUkuUrUDiHm9QlkjIQivYAv7DifNizxMl1UWULM9w3OJG3p7/h+/un wtKRAePKq9z1GSXSKjvGWLscqsVQGO61vIdWIbE5/u/CNTMZmootLJzPbJz6887ndn4c Won112j4ujCBtPo6Usy5Tb4Ct3uG4rwlVY4JmThS1d3ZeNK486JQiv3CTcNMEqb2gTwD jFdQEvFChkjt+9wIssJJUm8EuNTlPY9ZRx/MU4+zhVyfSfKJxjNBCDsfdEeEHwUX8Mot 3+ZA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.113.199 with SMTP id ja7mr10505573lab.10.1340172814180; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:13:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.24.131 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:13:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:13:33 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=EDa?= To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Polytropon , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:13:41 -0000 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> >>> Does GPLv3 does force programs you compile with gcc to be GPLed? >> >> >> As far as I know, the main difference is that the GPLv3 is >> often called a "viral license". Software linking against v3 >> libraries and so maybe programs compiled by a v3 compiler >> will have - according to the license - to be released as >> v3 too. > > This word: "MAYBE" is most crucial here. I don't see how GPLv3 is viral. Here[1] we can read a program linking agains a gpl v3 library should be released under the gplv3 too. However, the only concern would be when the program is implicitly linked against libgcc right? Well, there's even an exception[2] for this. I'm not saying moving to clang is a bad idea. I just don't think the viral license argumentation is strong enough. Can anyone provide an example of viral propagation of the license if we compile the base system with a gpl v3 gcc? Thanks. [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#IfLibraryIsGPL [2] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#LibGCCException > > wouldn't it be just simplest solution to ask GNU leader for clearing it out? > > i wouldn't be surprised that FreeBSD team would decide to go back to gcc > soon. > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 06:54:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01C481065672 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:54:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6245C8FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:54:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5K6sUpQ071568; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:54:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5K6sTiH071565; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:54:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:54:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=EDa?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:54:30 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Polytropon , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:54:33 -0000 > Here[1] we can read a program linking agains a gpl v3 library should be released > under the gplv3 too. However, the only concern would be when the program is > implicitly linked against libgcc right? Well, there's even an > exception[2] for this. > this is exactly how i understand that. Anyway DragonFly BSD developers (which is BSD licenced) don't have any problems and just use latest gcc. > I'm not saying moving to clang is a bad idea. I am saying this. Moving to worse compiler is a definitely bad idea. This is not a place of politics. As GPLv3 doesn't prevent it from being used in FreeBSD and is better - it should be used. It's simple. If clang would be better - it should be used. > Can anyone provide an example of viral propagation of the license if we compile > the base system with a gpl v3 gcc? > there are none probably. Before actually testing it i believed we move to clang because it is better compiler AND and supported a move. Good lesson to test first and don't believe, even with FreeBSD. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 06:59:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8FFF106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:59:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B26C8FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:59:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5K6xmrc071591; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:59:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5K6xmBB071588; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:59:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:59:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Adam Vande More In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:59:49 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Michel Talon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:59:50 -0000 > long term goals. Eliminating, or at least not being dependent on a GNU > toolchain. GPL v3 brings with it a whole host problems such as: As you already know i don't like GPL very much. As i already said for me GNU is computer communism. But like or not like, i don't prefer my likeness above facts and FreeBSD performance. And the facts are against clang. BUT PLEASE stop offtopic explaining about secure boot problems and answer one clear question: What exactly GPLv3 have wrong that we can use gcc in longer term for FreeBSD system? OK? Can you just answer that simple question clearly? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 07:01:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24FA4106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:01:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from leslie@eskk.nu) Received: from mx1.bjare.net (mx1.bjare.net [212.31.160.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8BF68FC17 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:01:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.bjare.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4B35E2F4; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:01:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mx1.bjare.net X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.614 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.614 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.616, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.596] Received: from mx1.bjare.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx1.bjare.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 8tQ-5p1i4XhG; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:01:00 +0200 (CEST) X-BN-MX1: ja X-BN-MailInfo: BjareNet Received: from [172.17.0.139] (c-195-216-041-102.ekt.thalamus.net [195.216.41.102]) by mx1.bjare.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ABF35E318; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:00:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4FE17525.9030801@eskk.nu> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:00:53 +0200 From: Leslie Jensen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120604 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dale Scott References: <4FD9B2D3.5020409@eskk.nu> <4FD9BA6C.70404@infracaninophile.co.uk> <4FD9BD3D.2090601@eskk.nu> <019301cd4a2d$8cf5dfc0$a6e19f40$@shaw.ca> In-Reply-To: <019301cd4a2d$8cf5dfc0$a6e19f40$@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd-update install question X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:01:10 -0000 Dale Scott skrev 2012-06-14 14:59: >> Should I install the libc souces? > > I had this error when upgrading 8.x (8.1 to 8.2?), and solved it by creating > the directory only (actual sources not required). I recall someone had > posted this solution to the list at the time. > > Regards, > Dale > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > I followed your suggestion and created the directory. I then installed the latest update with freebsd-update and it went well without any warnings. Thanks for the advice :-) /Leslie From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 07:10:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5A28106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:10:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amvandemore@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E79B8FC19 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:10:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so6356864wer.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:10:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=GsHOHvk3XjXDsQHi+AkhYr3OS9sjlX+FH7PyR6SXS20=; b=cQt3EVBkl8CNAPZMg94nxytCP52k7AspXz5hhhP+gGNgEgNJF//jpFXqJRwY0zVuBA hBpSYdOVXGF7jeGeGydTAvMo3MKXTvj0s06C/pi4nSww82TweSLO7pPd4FSoZ0IfD0Gd uQOp2FIkwhm7Y4IwcuO80uxY7aAhrbK1/gfe7fqx9hO6ztF8IS8gsg+R/fc7vaaRafp1 1NRsQQ9GpKYMbqo0o72XqhiIIh+hSfd/CdeYa6tJQQMdtbjkXXLGF4DRzESJonvHjCO7 +8FoGnqErpKzXyPsK0/3wPaxL/V708i7hsb13weJ6owHiTAVnqKbiEqUIr/Wfn2rtcbn cCGw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.86.194 with SMTP id r2mr9446648wiz.15.1340176218304; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.88.155 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:10:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:10:18 -0500 Message-ID: From: Adam Vande More To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Michel Talon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:10:20 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 1:59 AM, Wojciech Puchar < wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote: > > OK? Can you just answer that simple question clearly? > Yes Wojciech, I can attempt an answer for you. Pay attention, this gets very complex. The decision to move to Clang was motivated by what is best for the project, and not what is best for Wojciech. -- Adam Vande More From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 08:24:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6231106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:24:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 584968FC16 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:24:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5K8O1r0060440 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:24:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5K8O1tl060437 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:24:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:24:01 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:24:02 +0200 (CEST) Subject: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/* X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:24:03 -0000 i have samba server and few virtualbox sessions using vboxnet which is started by /usr/local/etc/rc.d/vboxheadless i want samba to be started AFTER vboxheadless as the latter configures vboxnet0 automatically when started, and samba do bind to vboxnet0. so i appended vboxheadless to REQUIRE: line in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/samba because vboxheadless is a word after PROVIDE: in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/vboxheadless script yet - samba still is started before vboxheadless. what i am missing? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 08:25:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A0461065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:25:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C43CB8FC16 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:25:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5K8P6u2061790; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:25:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5K8P6Je061783; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:25:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:25:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Adam Vande More In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="2456600518-1208097818-1340180706=:40030" X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:25:06 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Michel Talon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:25:07 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --2456600518-1208097818-1340180706=:40030 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > > > Yes Wojciech, I can attempt an answer for you.  Pay attention, this gets very complex. > The decision to move to Clang was motivated by what is best for the project, and not what is best for Wojciech. still not stopped personal attacks (last part of last sentence) but lets forget. So please give an answer - not summary. --2456600518-1208097818-1340180706=:40030-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 08:29:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2353A106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:29:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from c.kworr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 951A18FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:29:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so7405874bkv.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:29:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LtqCkxhZGdZbsj7HLw8qWSkqzWi+26g76i4KqU/MEFE=; b=fj33vd9eehILrneXfmnF5oz0z+tKU8XdfTlbvR9Zm0bij/sT5hC2TWHwjCAzpGtYuy yJd7whR2rskzC612C3ZhHAJrOst3ppBYyF8PaW/0phxavH2T9mFNfoEWWlzw7JfCHHeP FPgr2hyDKwVMIdABFmOmz6kZEYYZIA+KQSLiyyXGJ4UHw7BYb0P2RV3B9NIRFT2mihv6 ZEk6doQ9d05fybdW01JmsCwvO50LD/blCZ6P6nppL7XLncfadgXGFlrZMkuaki7rK9I+ BP0lOglMeItkOt4Oup6SSPzfTvKRD8X4SybvMEMXnW+cdvx6+v0IQLTkYOnmBU4x9BG3 Jxmw== Received: by 10.204.154.144 with SMTP id o16mr9701864bkw.107.1340180957435; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from green.tandem.local (utwig.xim.bz. [91.216.237.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e20sm26511172bkw.3.2012.06.20.01.29.14 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE189D9.4040404@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:29:13 +0300 From: Volodymyr Kostyrko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120605 Firefox/12.0 SeaMonkey/2.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Polytropon , FreeBSD Questions , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=EDa?= Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:29:19 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> Here[1] we can read a program linking agains a gpl v3 library should >> be released >> under the gplv3 too. However, the only concern would be when the >> program is >> implicitly linked against libgcc right? Well, there's even an >> exception[2] for this. >> > this is exactly how i understand that. Anyway DragonFly BSD developers > (which is BSD licenced) don't have any problems and just use latest gcc. > >> I'm not saying moving to clang is a bad idea. > > I am saying this. Moving to worse compiler is a definitely bad idea. > > This is not a place of politics. As GPLv3 doesn't prevent it from being > used in FreeBSD and is better - it should be used. It's simple. > > If clang would be better - it should be used. > >> Can anyone provide an example of viral propagation of the license if >> we compile >> the base system with a gpl v3 gcc? >> > there are none probably. > > Before actually testing it i believed we move to clang because it is > better compiler AND and supported a move. Good lesson to test first and > don't believe, even with FreeBSD. The bad thing about GPLv3 is that if anyone commits any code under this license into the tree vendors that use our code base for making their own OSes will ditch FreeBSD as they can be sued by FSF. Juniper for example. It would be wise to listen to their point of view on GPLv3. As for DragonflyBSD they AFAIK are taking the path of fixing world to build on any stock compiler as we currently do. And they have no such user base to support. FreeBSD is heading the right way: bringing BSD toolchain to the world and fixing world compilation with gcc46 from ports would give anyone a choice on which compiler to use keeping GPL out of tree. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 08:45:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C51D106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:45:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fred.morcos@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B0D8FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:45:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so735884obb.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:45:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=n0RecvWIk+DFLRr8wIB0h/Z+bppZek1hykn+IhELhEU=; b=aPR2NiO5wgc0nCH+aygepWVTaZvNiYRlKcJnl6jNjl1ZsQLwCErWfzOf5oH57lqGVZ C9rggS94M5DDO4pL/0O7YkYni0SZUdcLr65JYOpu0HxtGaDrY2/BjS0mr10V/MnBe3pP qYyqu0dwmYZMZqngVvNIuy4joLfKT0tVGZ10YGT7kYGeLXRcaiGYNF1A450CeoUQLo13 hKt2rpmTjTL9Nw8LNi/uAYoRj/IF8oigNpC03zEXEQA7cU+KWklM4TQ+WtdmpZylwhZG ONIC4yRfnl+ZrrmusW2Va071Kwt2GT6I7u0uyy8Sqo/FhJPLHOmVK8KP3V7C5KQx4STg 4k6A== Received: by 10.182.179.38 with SMTP id dd6mr23005212obc.16.1340181913966; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:45:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.241.7 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:44:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> From: Fred Morcos Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:44:52 +0200 Message-ID: To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Adam Vande More , Michel Talon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:45:16 -0000 The answer is: 1. gcc will still be available through the ports system. 2. The move to clang/llvm as a default compiler will reduce the amount of GPL code in the base system, eventually reducing distribution issues (especially for 3rd parties). 3. clang/llvm provides better error and warning messages, as well as good static code analysis, which helps reduce some classes of bugs and eventually will result in a more reliable FreeBSD system. 4. clang/llvm is improving quickly. 5. clang/llvm is more modular than gcc, although there are plans for gcc to become as modular, it will take time. 6. gcc produces faster code, but clang/llvm will eventually (soon enough) get there. 7. From the reasons above, it makes sense to complete a task sooner rather than later, especially that clang/llvm isn't showing any signs of weakness (lack of development power, etc). 8. There might be more reasons for or against, but I couldn't think of any. On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> >> >> Yes Wojciech, I can attempt an answer for you. =A0Pay attention, this ge= ts >> very complex. >> The decision to move to Clang was motivated by what is best for the >> project, and not what is best for=A0Wojciech. > > still not stopped personal attacks (last part of last sentence) but lets > forget. > > So please give an answer - not summary. > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 08:45:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 975D8106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:45:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0193F8FC12 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:45:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.187.76.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5K8jEuM013021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:45:14 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q5K8jEuM013021 Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/q5K8jEuM013021; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none Message-ID: <4FE18D93.4060809@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:45:07 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigBF0A3475E3D5626D5857CBFC" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.5 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: Subject: Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/* X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:45:20 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigBF0A3475E3D5626D5857CBFC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 20/06/2012 09:24, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > i have samba server and few virtualbox sessions using vboxnet which is > started by /usr/local/etc/rc.d/vboxheadless >=20 > i want samba to be started AFTER vboxheadless as the latter configures > vboxnet0 automatically when started, and samba do bind to vboxnet0. >=20 > so i appended vboxheadless to REQUIRE: line in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/samb= a > because vboxheadless is a word after PROVIDE: in > /usr/local/etc/rc.d/vboxheadless script >=20 > yet - samba still is started before vboxheadless. >=20 > what i am missing? Create a new file in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/precedence with the following contents: #!/bin/sh # # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. # PROVIDE: precedence # REQUIRE: vboxheadless # BEFORE: samba : Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey --------------enigBF0A3475E3D5626D5857CBFC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/hjZoACgkQ8Mjk52CukIzqgACfYIwKe2cDB/Sz9Hpf5JuytXeC NRAAn2DPyXkUJJD0nLW+1AgzFOm83OYF =MtLO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigBF0A3475E3D5626D5857CBFC-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 08:51:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 470CE106566B; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:51:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEC708FC16; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:51:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5K8p4OD023400; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:51:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5K8p4Bo023397; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:51:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:51:04 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Matthew Seaman In-Reply-To: <4FE18D93.4060809@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: References: <4FE18D93.4060809@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:51:04 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/* X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:51:05 -0000 > > Create a new file in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/precedence with the following > contents: > > #!/bin/sh > # > # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. > > # PROVIDE: precedence > # REQUIRE: vboxheadless > # BEFORE: samba > > : > > Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. > thank you for help. I will test it when being on place and could reboot. But still - do you know why it is necessary? cannot i just add BEFORE: samba in vboxheadless? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 08:54:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59EFC106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:54:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B947F8FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:54:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5K8sZce023417; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:54:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5K8sZDI023414; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:54:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:54:35 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Volodymyr Kostyrko In-Reply-To: <4FE189D9.4040404@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <4FE189D9.4040404@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:54:35 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Polytropon , FreeBSD Questions , =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=EDa?= Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:54:38 -0000 > > The bad thing about GPLv3 is that if anyone commits any code under this > license into the tree vendors that use our code base for making their own > OSes will ditch FreeBSD as they can be sued by FSF. Juniper for example. It > would be wise to listen to their point of view on GPLv3. not really understood this. -------- if anyone commits any code under this license into the tree -------- into what tree? gcc tree or FreeBSD tree? FreeBSD has it's own copy of gcc so any change in gcc doesn't automatically change FreeBSD code and licencing. Can you explain it more precisely privately? thanks > FreeBSD is heading the right way: bringing BSD toolchain to the world and > fixing world compilation with gcc46 from ports would give anyone a choice on > which compiler to use keeping GPL out of tree. the right way is to use best performing tools as long as no law problems exist. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 09:09:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0AED1065674 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:09:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF8098FC16 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:09:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5K99Nhv023469; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:09:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5K99Nhr023466; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:09:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:09:23 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Fred Morcos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:09:23 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Adam Vande More , Michel Talon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:09:25 -0000 > 1. gcc will still be available through the ports system. As well as clang is available in ports. not an argument. > 2. The move to clang/llvm as a default compiler will reduce the amount > of GPL code in the base system, eventually reducing distribution > issues (especially for 3rd parties). true. But JUST reducing GPL code should be a target per se. FreeBSD is about performance and quality not politics or religion. We don't want GPL code because it prevents doing binary only distributions and closed source derivatives, which means reducing FREEDOM. But - if you do closed source derivatives you don't need to include C compiler to run it. And you may allow C compiler separately with source included. No problem. > 3. clang/llvm provides better error and warning messages, as well as > good static code analysis, which helps reduce some classes of bugs and > eventually will result in a more reliable FreeBSD system. as with 1 - you may use clang when developing. > 4. clang/llvm is improving quickly. When/If it WILL actually improve to be better than gcc it should be imported to FreeBSD. not sooner. > 5. clang/llvm is more modular than gcc, although there are plans for > gcc to become as modular, it will take time. Doesn't matter how it is written, but how it performs. > 6. gcc produces faster code, but clang/llvm will eventually (soon > enough) get there. This is your prediction. Not definite fact, mine and other predictions are different. > 7. From the reasons above, it makes sense to complete a task sooner > rather than later, especially that clang/llvm isn't showing any signs > of weakness (lack of development power, etc). NOBODY prevent you and FreeBSD developers to fix things already - so FreeBSD and ports would compile with both compilers. Actually it is good to fix it already, as making programs compile with both means usually fixing non-portability bug which would help using third compiler that may possibly emerge. But this DO NOT require clang to be a part of main system. As well as making it default. > 8. There might be more reasons for or against, but I couldn't think of any. Against: All "for" arguments assumes clang WILL be better. This is a change as less than 2 days before it was stated to already be better. As a comparision - DragonFly BSD is stated to have better ideas that would result in better performing system in a future. But FOR NOW it is much worse performer than FreeBSD that's why i (and lots of other people) does not switch to DragonFly but of course will when(and if) DragonFly BSD will actually be better. And i don't really think this "IF" will happen at all, but i wish to DragonFly BSD i am wrong. Same should be used for clang. AS LONG as it is not better it should not be imported into base system or worse - used as default. Making decision based on wishes and personal likes instead of technical facts isn't something that anyone should be proud about. As for your words about doing decision good for FreeBSD, not me - it is pure nonsense attacks because anything that is good for FreeBSD quality is good for me, and the reverse. The decision of switching to clang now it shows that ideologic and "religious" arguments won over technical arguments. The agressive and data-manipulationg reactions of many people on that list shows that above sentence is true. This IMHO much change. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 09:09:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3994B106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:09:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94A838FC14 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:09:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.187.76.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5K99nJX013448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:09:49 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q5K99nJX013448 Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/q5K99nJX013448; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none Message-ID: <4FE1935C.60902@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:09:48 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <4FE18D93.4060809@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigCC243E4FA235F125A0EF85C9" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.5 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/* X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:09:55 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigCC243E4FA235F125A0EF85C9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 20/06/2012 09:51, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> >> Create a new file in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/precedence with the following= >> contents: >> >> #!/bin/sh >> # >> # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. >> >> # PROVIDE: precedence >> # REQUIRE: vboxheadless >> # BEFORE: samba >> >> : >> >> Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. >> > thank you for help. I will test it when being on place and could reboot= =2E >=20 > But still - do you know why it is necessary? >=20 > cannot i just add BEFORE: samba in vboxheadless? >=20 Yes, that should work too. However any time you update vboxheadless you'll have to remember to add that modification back to the rc script. Using a separate file stops that being a problem. If you want to test that your changes are having the desired effect without having to reboot: # rcorder /etc/rc.d/* /usr/local/etc/rc.d/* which will print out the order all the rc-scripts would be run. (It includes all the scripts, not just the ones enabled in /etc/rc.conf, but that shouldn't matter.) Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey --------------enigCC243E4FA235F125A0EF85C9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/hk10ACgkQ8Mjk52CukIxgtgCgkqLGmXh5HeEPb2XNwBAA7M+Q OssAoIxjQr1hqm8kfUFiB29+kjoRjqyq =GUbd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigCC243E4FA235F125A0EF85C9-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 09:23:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 811E9106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:23:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from c.kworr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E96EC8FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:23:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so7452804bkv.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:23:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sEW5L1JooJvPH97/XZLt4IjlQDex1Fw7zXseQMxzNWQ=; b=JB6mE2eHGxxUsxOZOfbhZ7XB/5e9MeMsSym3XglJ/1NipjS6YMyO1Um9e952QxWRHE Ol8n+OEZ8bmsYwQMtNrrcOHdx4Qdrq/TspqYIXp8sryuv1IalfuaSp+DrGyHEfYSWuTl ktp+TzCNfO2gC8btqDUOAdvkatAqZOjqJ8TDUt1S06Am4NYUG3z0NW5LTB9siIvr1Fwk vMZflQVu9N4vgOvPJo1e9Z/nb8GnO6XD5vQbrvYdu37zeQUbFlImhmzBf9SixpGwrZPi 52DER8tlMIYW242/43yCeVwXGlNmNTGg6gK6EViGupBEEfJ2jdvQEfi//Xcy0YUIFGDw s+tQ== Received: by 10.204.154.214 with SMTP id p22mr9366785bkw.115.1340184202908; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from green.tandem.local (utwig.xim.bz. [91.216.237.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m2sm26750650bkm.2.2012.06.20.02.23.20 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:23:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE19687.80602@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:23:19 +0300 From: Volodymyr Kostyrko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120605 Firefox/12.0 SeaMonkey/2.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <4FE189D9.4040404@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Polytropon , FreeBSD Questions , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=EDa?= Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:23:24 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> >> The bad thing about GPLv3 is that if anyone commits any code under >> this license into the tree vendors that use our code base for making >> their own OSes will ditch FreeBSD as they can be sued by FSF. Juniper >> for example. It would be wise to listen to their point of view on GPLv3. > > not really understood this. > > -------- > if anyone commits any code under this > license into the tree > -------- > into what tree? gcc tree or FreeBSD tree? I was talking about FreeBSD sources here. > FreeBSD has it's own copy of gcc so any change in gcc doesn't > automatically change FreeBSD code and licencing. FreeBSD has old and abandoned copy of gcc, the last version available under GPLv2 license. >> FreeBSD is heading the right way: bringing BSD toolchain to the world >> and fixing world compilation with gcc46 from ports would give anyone a >> choice on which compiler to use keeping GPL out of tree. > > the right way is to use best performing tools as long as no law problems > exist. There can be different ways for selecting best tools. Someone needs better performance while other one state that stability is a must. For now clang is a choice for stability and not the performance. Yet due to the rapid development this is subject to change while gcc is not. Think of it like we are changing a car that shines for the one that can move. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 09:25:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3BCD106568F for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:25:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D3758FC1A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:25:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so6303118ghb.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:25:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=9QP9xwyKgblgV4p+eyieac01IIuSA0NnxCD8DGgAWFA=; b=BbICkKigM9HoUN3yp7+2nXJsJxtN6XIE6Lh7LoILig2kgIaUma/+pHqsvgqeZxZVlw DgAc6sslOrSlg7ZjSt/seraUW/lS/WivlqTD/EjvjVApCwtzKEDWl6HKRsWgR3O5+yjk TPS3GWPhzrKehtxnZmu/si5p3nmQu4XULH88U= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=9QP9xwyKgblgV4p+eyieac01IIuSA0NnxCD8DGgAWFA=; b=SeaiTn3cpIff0RrAFbNbGsdh+1XwFION6LNgsFSHZrlx0iCoZsMVts9rEBxit0gOyb oFZ7QF29u7jHea+Pb8JyxfbRJrNDUscgzPLuWxhzEOZODa+bsjhGrnkyYn9gN5M9K/lh UcCwdv6vqGX6VpQNm+RJ8oxXy294ZZix9q442giUTzQo5XsFAaBAWY68o1htRQuCPwAM zd2aETTG1D2QoZooQfO6K58PhTgeOx0Ag4jCjHsBsW2G2rq5gmPyUxcDjrw1WuU9tN56 vHb2pJdnTUYPFP1OQ6OmLb6cMCzEhjAOVsLYpmvfxVTJ3RPyDNvx7o07OhafYGmOrYw3 BFDw== Received: by 10.236.155.6 with SMTP id i6mr27023461yhk.11.1340184330152; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:25:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-076-182-104-150.nc.res.rr.com. [76.182.104.150]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m43sm91553503yhi.13.2012.06.20.02.25.28 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@scorpio.seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3WHLHW2fwyz2CG4F for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:25:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:25:26 -0400 From: Jerry To: FreeBSD Message-ID: <20120620052526.08c1a5b1@scorpio> In-Reply-To: References: <4FE18D93.4060809@FreeBSD.org> Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm4QmxCNSxtwMrwi6+AEQwLdn+hwRkesvzNP2H+nxrcKM0E5fOYGSJeo5YZTH6RrLeCjRje Subject: Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/* X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: FreeBSD List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:25:31 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:51:04 +0200 (CEST) Wojciech Puchar articulated: > > Create a new file in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/precedence with the > > following contents: > > > > #!/bin/sh > > # > > # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. > > > > # PROVIDE: precedence > > # REQUIRE: vboxheadless > > # BEFORE: samba > > > > : > > > > Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. > > > thank you for help. I will test it when being on place and could > reboot. > > But still - do you know why it is necessary? > > cannot i just add BEFORE: samba in vboxheadless? I had a similar problem about two years ago. One program required program "X" to load prior to it while program "Y" wanted to load it after it. It was causing a conflict. It is slightly difficult to explain in a few words. I had to manually check every file in the /usr/local/etc/rc.d directory to straighten it out. I believe that there is a way to have all of that information displayed without going through that much intervention; however, I do not remember how to do it at the moment. Anyway, in the "samba" file, it has this notation: # PROVIDE: nmbd smbd I don't know if that makes any difference or not. I have never had to move the starting order of samba around. I do know that in other applications, they appear to have their name in the "PROVIDE" line. For example, from the Postfix script: # PROVIDE: postfix mail -- Jerry â™” Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 09:27:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 932F4106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:27:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from proace@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5162A8FC19 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:27:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so6465732yen.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:27:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ftnj6WDHhjOnmkDvlLWAXqcrhQ+WXXsH09FbF8XYhyY=; b=B/i2inGRVLKWEBa3jiNB3zOUHazLaOEuIrDxbjsR/XpeI6Ye7iZ/uKcDZDgytthe2t 637OF7A5dZsHoz36aGyUC0xHTyJA/e9cnWMD2RmCA4wHb7rNPp2lFoTvoS3F48+KVxyi UjEAtAcdcP0FUC09yJbx80SSqiHUCGYOrwN7qFjXmxYB5+Pz7KN9yXl7SgaS6AzmvylY 3lSL+B/YxUWHaX4iPhEuur+2fWKNvyTKZLW+c4b7uDPVOpUXekFVpl6UhIqVn8OheCaz vpZQqDZV/fXLFWQF5tz61yyhc3h/NfRF15L6t/OodFsNAeZMQOBwFaS4mIqwZ/e5EBrd KRlQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.109.229 with SMTP id s65mr27030055yhg.10.1340184477895; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:27:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.147.78.20 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:27:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:27:57 +0800 Message-ID: From: ProAce To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: packet filter problem on transparent firewall using bridge and pf X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:27:58 -0000 I have some trouble with pf on freebsd bridge. Network topology: ( untrust ) -- { em0 , bridge0 , em1 } -- ( trust ) Bridge Network: 10.1.1.0/24 bridge0 IP: 10.1.1.1 ( freebsd's ip ) default gw: 10.1.1.254 ( in untrust area ) server: 10.1.1.101 ~ 200 ( in trust area ) pf.conf on freebsd serv1="10.1.1.101" client1="10.1.6.73" block in all block out all pass in quick on lo0 all pass out quick on lo0 all pass in quick on bridge0 from 10.1.1.0/24 to any pass out quick on bridge0 from 10.1.1.0/24 to any pass in quick on bridge0 from $client1 to 10.1.1.1 pass in quick on bridge0 from $client1 to $serv1 When I turn on the pf, I test some connection status. 1. client1 cannot connect to serv1. 2. gw cannot connect to serv1 3. client1 connect to freebsd ( 10.1.1.1 ) successfully 4. gw connect to freebsd ( 10.1.1.1 ) successfully If I turn off the pf, all conneciton test are success. What's wrong with the pf rules? The following is some description of the bridge topology. Freebsd and server are vmware guest in the vmware ESXi. The ESXi has two virtual switchs, vSw1: connect to untrust vSw2: interconnect with freebsd and servers freebsd has tow vNICs, em0: connect to vSw1 em1: connect to vSw2. servers has only one vNIC, em0: connect to vSw2 freebsd's rc.conf cloned_interfaces="bridge0" ifconfig_bridge0="inet 10.1.1.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 addm em0 addm em1 up" ifconfig_em0="up" ifconfig_em1="up" pf_enable="YES" pf_rules="/etc/pf.conf" freebsd's sysctl net.link.bridge.ipfw: 0 net.link.bridge.inherit_mac: 0 net.link.bridge.log_stp: 0 net.link.bridge.pfil_local_phys: 0 net.link.bridge.pfil_member: 1 net.link.bridge.pfil_bridge: 1 net.link.bridge.ipfw_arp: 0 net.link.bridge.pfil_onlyip: 1 From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 09:46:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF5E8106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:46:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from c.kworr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672478FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:46:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so7475529bkv.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:46:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3VfV877hXltDkSXq7gLlZoKJgAt86Uchn7O4zbf6eJc=; b=MhjeIV33hY3dTMZCLdXPoQuO/WOmqInLyerzhE1su8skgjtasomzhvO/qtXsOIVz3A 9WimArKk+Pxq8X9GkTDiZKxR0/8mDyLKuL8iAJKx4/w7Ee3cm2nOL4sLyYmOEVqePbMq fTq1Bnsm7r6OluSJyU70tJjQQudHzGAmLk5ZGE1qSIfZd7kK2JDmsH6xyyq7CHqd6+rm Y644zaAm7E34RGbsgFvUtY7l7c1OuCWr6w3LrIBl+SYmjRkG1peAzuzSoSn8D7vW7Aqi 9x/bosreMh5ojBZ7nylELQ/K6siqCxYhqkIBKfnVWQWJlNCg1gkN/GSbf+MY0e00PB8f zVVg== Received: by 10.204.151.130 with SMTP id c2mr9956082bkw.125.1340185606579; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from green.tandem.local (utwig.xim.bz. [91.216.237.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 9sm26841466bku.9.2012.06.20.02.46.44 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE19BFC.7030304@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:46:36 +0300 From: Volodymyr Kostyrko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120605 Firefox/12.0 SeaMonkey/2.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Adam Vande More , Michel Talon , Fred Morcos , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:46:49 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> 5. clang/llvm is more modular than gcc, although there are plans for >> gcc to become as modular, it will take time. > > Doesn't matter how it is written, but how it performs. That's a hard one. I remember an error in gcc loop optimizer which makes gcc produce SSE2 opcodes for pre-SSE2 athlon chips. Due to gcc internal design such errors are often seen and almost never patched as you should have eternal knowledge of gcc code. gcc's bugtraq is just a cemetery. Opposing to this ones most fixes to clang touch minimal source lines and minimal set of files. > Same should be used for clang. AS LONG as it is not better it should not > be imported into base system or worse - used as default. And why you think it's not better then gcc? With gcc I can result in code that will hang locking some parts of system forever, yet with clang the code will break predictably yielding a core and a point on where the debugging should start. That was long ago and I can't correctly remember the PR's are I noted this but that was long ago and helped me to debug ZFS issues a lot. The code that runs faster is not the best one. The code that is predictable and runs as fast as possible is. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 10:04:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD9751065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:04:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dmtilbrook@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D4108FC1D for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:04:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so6485085yen.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:04:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=tSXXenKqxP9oajv/rn+OUSi1GXzY3ttiLUaW+n54ovg=; b=HqMideNPBi39o9tR66I27KWRgxLvWiLL5xiHMY1QoM1F8Y0yk4+EXDsiDwU3UnIELF 1tm9oQZPSnzOO9PzT7efASK+jyIVj02cUyAIue9bkXUAcYjONc4XybbfF4ayQH89Rdfk uoKyu2/R88oPScOrgQ7nOeCtESJIywV1DvVSqAm8cUzzVDhc+sxjSCdfUjP7snENp8OT 0JzaDiGZc4C5D9CopXKN9VKlpIN4uL1F1KRNSrNQ+DeRedOQ4YtVa4K0Xd6TqGDqneic qwUWjI+q1MbqcXAlcjx0emE8zNqeA+MjDGWCZ9QE2CO2NWzd6IP/4/FuDw394VNlu1gS JgRA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.209.102 with SMTP id ml6mr3891882igc.60.1340186651172; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.56.10 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:04:11 -0400 Message-ID: From: David Tilbrook To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: where's ppmtoxpm X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:04:12 -0000 I have searched for ppmtoxpm in ports and in FreeBSD Search Services to no avail. ppmtoxpm converts a portable pixmap into an X11 pixmap. Is there a freebsd equivalent or alternative? -- david From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 10:10:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06A1F1065679; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:10:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C26A8FC22; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:10:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KAA866023793; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:10:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KAA8HM023790; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:10:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:10:08 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Matthew Seaman In-Reply-To: <4FE1935C.60902@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: References: <4FE18D93.4060809@FreeBSD.org> <4FE1935C.60902@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:10:08 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/* X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:10:09 -0000 >>> #!/bin/sh >>> # >>> # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. >>> >>> # PROVIDE: precedence >>> # REQUIRE: vboxheadless >>> # BEFORE: samba >>> >>> : >>> >>> Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. >>> >> thank you for help. I will test it when being on place and could reboot. >> >> But still - do you know why it is necessary? >> >> cannot i just add BEFORE: samba in vboxheadless? >> > > Yes, that should work too. However any time you update vboxheadless > you'll have to remember to add that modification back to the rc script. > Using a separate file stops that being a problem. now i understood completely. thank you From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 10:11:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1E771065672 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:11:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDAA8FC19 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:11:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KABmDp023811; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:11:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KABmrJ023808; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:11:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:11:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: David Tilbrook In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:11:49 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: where's ppmtoxpm X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:11:49 -0000 > I have searched for ppmtoxpm in ports and in FreeBSD Search Services to > no avail. > > ppmtoxpm converts a portable pixmap into an X11 pixmap. > > Is there a freebsd equivalent or alternative? No equivalent just the same netpbm package /usr/ports/graphics/netpbm From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 10:14:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC290106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:14:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5219F8FC18 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:14:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KAEAP5023826; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:14:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KAE9i7023823; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:14:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:14:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Volodymyr Kostyrko In-Reply-To: <4FE19BFC.7030304@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <4FE19BFC.7030304@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:14:10 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Adam Vande More , Michel Talon , Fred Morcos , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:14:11 -0000 > > And why you think it's not better then gcc? because - as you already should know - test shows otherwise. As well as FreeBSD running predictable with gcc anyway. Still theory and ideology. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 10:15:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF5671065677 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:15:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C0EB8FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:15:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5KAFKKj026496 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:15:20 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:15:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206201015.q5KAFKKj026496@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:15:10 -0000 [ Semi-apologies to all for being blunt, and possibly somewhat offensive. ] [ More tactful approaches have been shown to be ineffective, and Wojceich ] [ has a demonstrated propensity to blather on as though he knows more ] [ about everything than anyone else. ] > From: Wojciech Puchar > > > Yes Wojciech, I can attempt an answer for you. Pay attention, this gets > > very complex. > > The decision to move to Clang was motivated by what is best for the > > project, and not what is best for Wojciech. > > still not stopped personal attacks (last part of last sentence) but lets > forget. Fact; that was NOT a personal attack. Your entire line of reasoning so far has been about -your- preferences, and things as you see them, for _your_ use. The Project does not make decisions based on what is best for any particular user -- be it 'Wojceich' or _anyone_ else. You admit you are 'not a developer'. That *you* don't see problems, is irrelevant to whether those who _are_ developers do. Your perceptions of problems, or the lack thereof, is similarly immaterial. Those who _do_ do the work have a number of valid issues with GCC, of -long- standing. *Major* users of FreeBSD have serious 'issues' with the GPLv3, based on the opinions received from their professional legal counsel -- your "legally uninformed" opinion not withstanding. > So please give an answer - not summary. What would be the use of *repeating* the _multiple_ valid reasons that, in combination, compelled the Project to make the change? They were already provided, once, far earlier in this thread. You dismissed them, and dragged in 'strawman' reasoning, based on arrogant personal bias and flawed reasoning/analysis. The facts; 1) Your opinion about the choice of the standard compiler "doesn't matter". 2) The decision _has_ been made. The only question at this point is "when". 3) Nobody 'owes' you an explanation for why the decision was made. Nonetheless, you _were_ given an outline of the multiple factors that went into the decision. 4) In your personal view, you didn't find those reasons compelling. Too bad for you. But -irrelevant- to the decision process. 5) You _are_ 'free' to use GCC for anything you want, now or in the future. Nobody is under any obligation to make it particularly 'easy' for you. 6) In the future, to use GCC you may have to do lots of code fix-ups on base-system components -- to work around situations where GCC generates *BAD*CODE* from standards-compliant source, and/or where GNU has introduced 'extensions' that are incompatible with standards-compliant code. That _is_ your choice, and your problem. The Project has chosen not to spend any more time working around those _growing_ deficiencies in GCC. You have stated that you are 'not a developer' -- that means that you are _not_competent_ to have an opinion with regard to the magnitude of problems the 'non standards compliant' behavior of all even remotely- recent versions of GCC causes. 7) *Regardless* of your "non-professional" opinion of the GPLv3, it is a undisputed fact that it is 'unacceptable' to many large-scale users (and paying supporters of FreeBSD), based on the opinions of their PAID, PROFESSIONAL, legal counsel. 8) "Keeping Wojciech happy", at the 'cost' of *all* the problems that using newer versions of GCC brings to the Project, it's staff, and it's _major_ users, is simply 'not worth it.' Live with it. Your ongoing "bitching and moaning" about the already-made decision is *NOT* going to change anything. And is getting tiresome to listen to. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 10:19:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F0C0106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:19:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 450E28FC14 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:19:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5KAJpVP026516 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:19:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:19:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206201019.q5KAJpVP026516@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/* X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:19:38 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 20 03:51:43 2012 > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:51:04 +0200 (CEST) > From: Wojciech Puchar > To: Matthew Seaman > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/* > > > > > Create a new file in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/precedence with the following > > contents: > > > > #!/bin/sh > > # > > # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. > > > > # PROVIDE: precedence > > # REQUIRE: vboxheadless > > # BEFORE: samba > > > > : > > > > Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. > > > thank you for help. I will test it when being on place and could > reboot. > > But still - do you know why it is necessary? An explanation written some 80 years ago; 'Because that way it will work'. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 10:48:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA3AF1065673 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:48:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from venkatduvvuru.ml@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86F088FC21 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:48:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so6351051ghb.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:48:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ccloHjzvMeBJaQXXSJAT/5aZ+5GoMLThnaQqtHbDMLo=; b=S6w440FJYuXuOGpTwvdxXY2D1EoZxNnwhIelwCDtLqxAQCH2EGPsBJd7GxY8UGC/ho mIcTGTeB0uGaLynPtD9PTZAt9dqi1aDrXdnfgSRUzQjmQAf5cwychM2gwA+eMr7EGFX8 j/7JpQd49MpuiL5ky5GppDf04ZQS+9AtLfACLfsPh1IniXxqpYPniYefDo5069AawANL iOM4kmher4aZbcjNpLdVjpRAf23VVSYz+3lVGONOpi9ICTRfjhjCyAr0DCjfwS6Nv9YY IWzOuP5ZAHpbEByStb2aGQUlSq3pZjbu1Vi23KmhzcpA1e/GEA+MPg+Abcwx/ygFB0kW pp1A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.41.11 with SMTP id n11mr10114003ice.13.1340189302653; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.77.72 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:18:22 +0530 Message-ID: From: Venkat Duvvuru To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: MSI-X limitation in freebsd 8.2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:48:23 -0000 Hi, MSI-x supports upto 2048 vectors but what I see in freebsd 8.2 is that when I use more than ~30 vectors, system becomes dead slow. Is there a limitation on number of msi vectors that can be used in 8.2? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 10:59:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33BB1106578F for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:59:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sclists@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE63E8FC16 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:59:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so4983002qcs.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:59:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/6VHkQSExaoJfQImhd78hUy+Lw06qS/iticll2GuOFA=; b=nS6z3Mw2ulgz6WfyL9PjE1G40v3bnnQZiSZT/j/o1/I0tP9jjz6VMEDSRbhpZV8p9i uHFA0zM06fnppkuy4ckHv/mvb9ut+8O0oIoeFPqAEtCHJhvC3D1TN1uOSTgsNsTgwKuJ 8cCQLt7z4MvLFl2czAjGbJ/XHVn1tUj0qV9D6IwPAHDS0eIjEczLxw3iERCMdG3BVgg6 YxBVYODIfQBw/l5DrBkii2veZM+j8PkFkSBORjWsWWIoDTa9UQdqq+xXAepUtVFp6foc YWhP2gPtaQhgR3tDEtoTQ9TS/XMmZPnUfzKRPDA46ayUx8W8DdoGZHu39eWO3SsyS388 Ja5g== Received: by 10.229.111.66 with SMTP id r2mr11919937qcp.80.1340189989159; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (ool-182c6755.dyn.optonline.net. [24.44.103.85]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ev6sm33031051qab.4.2012.06.20.03.59.48 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:59:51 -0400 From: Stephen Cook User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Anonymous Remailer (austria)" References: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> In-Reply-To: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:59:50 -0000 On 6/19/2012 4:06 PM, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: >> BSDL in opposite is often criticized a "rape me license". > > No, it is not, except perhaps by lying atheist Marxist bastards and his > religious adherents. > Please don't use "atheist" as a derogatory term. There are plenty of capitalistic atheists who neither lie nor have unmarried parents! I'm a relative newcomer. Are the FreeBSD mailing lists always this flame-y? I realize that this particular post might be trolling / satire, but others in the thread (and other unrelated threads recently) are a FAR CRY from the technical support and discussion I expected. I thought I'd see an occasional RTFM, maybe a random "WinBlows" here and there... but this type of thing just diminished everyone involved. -- Stephen From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 11:05:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E72D01065673 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:05:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fred.morcos@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72CD28FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:05:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so6592556wer.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:05:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=+tvoHfNIXBoAfLrSMPC5g9nRn+niGrOLxXeX3L1c9dI=; b=gMzhghg+HJF4GG/irD4qtV/Bo2uJZivTueR0lduq1V4t4LChyKQFyBbF+J/tQJgzai sXMJdAp69raJI8P00VktSdN0DkR+yAkvFEK6RHEPGACjYbGsGSvoVyhY0NHTQN/YLPCf Qm4Ao2Kn0x7x8hexGk5mkkrKTGyMwkB8a94t8fOxOu5AJGjPw1IQmJq+TctW386XqJ4q 9dZm0WfzFu0hLSxf8guHTfrc4cKE+HMs8NXmy+Rx5WDpA+rb+dxQkSHYIOnGBaCdFPio p2tLaEX/DryoZr0j+QdsKra7IpzNpIQczZqzCBkBDPp7jymesYAO6Jukl6IcV8RVpVZq DHdA== Received: by 10.180.24.68 with SMTP id s4mr11203845wif.4.1340190308322; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:05:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.71.17 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:04:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> References: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> From: Fred Morcos Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:04:47 +0200 Message-ID: To: Stephen Cook Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, "Anonymous Remailer \(austria\)" Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:05:10 -0000 I am also a newcomer and I agree with Stephen. But I guess the only way is to simply ignore those who make such statements. I don't see much benefit in arguing or reasoning with them. On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Stephen Cook wrote: > On 6/19/2012 4:06 PM, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: >>> >>> BSDL in opposite is often criticized a "rape me license". >> >> >> No, it is not, except perhaps by lying atheist Marxist bastards and his >> religious adherents. >> > > Please don't use "atheist" as a derogatory term. There are plenty of > capitalistic atheists who neither lie nor have unmarried parents! > > I'm a relative newcomer. Are the FreeBSD mailing lists always this flame-y? > I realize that this particular post might be trolling / satire, but others > in the thread (and other unrelated threads recently) are a FAR CRY from the > technical support and discussion I expected. I thought I'd see an occasional > RTFM, maybe a random "WinBlows" here and there... but this type of thing > just diminished everyone involved. > > -- Stephen > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 11:35:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A91FF1065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:35:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43C578FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:35:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so6547655yen.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:34:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=K8xVmIq72PmrOAnsqvLXIsGKiM6IgXVQFIW1D2UhN1s=; b=X+DrLQdS2Mm4rqSNuSbe88Bl27aqJ+MWJu2wEKdeOBV6kbGqzEHZ1ZkSX1GElIkPlZ onoidcZs+yap5YMb/BFxA+poDqHq1Mq81ErQ9c1uh82sYxc6aobtK/tTHtmoAw1AWC/7 m9aF3bJDorx/cxUoXHX6Y4B0aMHhBPZnrzNUE= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=K8xVmIq72PmrOAnsqvLXIsGKiM6IgXVQFIW1D2UhN1s=; b=ZvgOuE0z2rnK8UY52e6DpuqSVyvYpckkoohawTo1lr8CH0bB7Du2y56gKXBeqAwP+x iAinnu4zHMIP/PMTTfb5fJFjNzAfms0QSM7MUtj3OShr/1/S4Zy5hq8zavjnCdFT7U2m EsB+/GtT/Y2GxB9Afk6qwBPYofeVfpQbMfIaDP8d3KOOqQAg3I9Uz0VW3IaVZ6I0rwuB 5xysBPd3J7wGADDzwQ6p+R/kq2dvjWmYKqPK9zqxgfL0ORtzvGK11MLOZiH5SivtSoTH /PDuNGc3SOeJeUWygT6hrRylRgxxOpcjFFHb8WVli/2PH/6D3XJ6vz7pfFceT7UR59lh njiQ== Received: by 10.236.76.133 with SMTP id b5mr27107903yhe.91.1340192098336; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-076-182-104-150.nc.res.rr.com. [76.182.104.150]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n15sm30615449anh.6.2012.06.20.04.34.56 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@scorpio.seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3WHP8v2H28z2CG4F for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:34:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:34:54 -0400 From: Jerry To: FreeBSD Message-ID: <20120620073454.0a5f2f87@scorpio> In-Reply-To: References: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlBuKNHa3yYm4k5wrA7R9x24VPuwes0V3slJfIjf+pbKBSsJh4JoxWDEHzql1laMX5wxxbb Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: FreeBSD List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:35:05 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:04:47 +0200 Fred Morcos articulated: > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Stephen Cook > wrote: > > On 6/19/2012 4:06 PM, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: > >>> > >>> BSDL in opposite is often criticized a "rape me license". > >> > >> No, it is not, except perhaps by lying atheist Marxist bastards > >> and his religious adherents. > >> > > Please don't use "atheist" as a derogatory term. There are plenty of > > capitalistic atheists who neither lie nor have unmarried parents! > > > > I'm a relative newcomer. Are the FreeBSD mailing lists always this > > flame-y? I realize that this particular post might be trolling / > > satire, but others in the thread (and other unrelated threads > > recently) are a FAR CRY from the technical support and discussion I > > expected. I thought I'd see an occasional RTFM, maybe a random > > "WinBlows" here and there... but this type of thing just diminished > > everyone involved. > > I am also a newcomer and I agree with Stephen. But I guess the only > way is to simply ignore those who make such statements. I don't see > much benefit in arguing or reasoning with them. A somewhat haphazardly search of the postings in this forum would seem to indicate that any post questioning the ethics or usefulness of FreeBSD as compared to other operating systems that elicit six or more responses, seems to inevitably result in "Godwin's Law" being invoked. You might also want to check out . I just read it for the first time a few days ago. You might also want to familiarize yourself with the term "Sour Grapes" . It is expressed by a certain clique here quite frequently. By the way Fred, please don't "Top Post". That pisses people off too, plus it makes following a really good argument a lot more difficult than it needs to be. Welcome to the fray ... -- Jerry â™” Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 11:45:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D4021065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:45:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirj.bris.ac.uk (dirj.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A24098FC18 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:45:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ncsd.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.59] helo=ncs.bris.ac.uk) by dirj.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ShJKf-0001xd-Sh for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:45:05 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.187.241]) by ncs.bris.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ShJKf-00053A-NM for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:44:21 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KBiLN7040370 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:44:21 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bris.ac.uk) Received: (from mexas@localhost) by mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5KBiLm2040369 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:44:21 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bris.ac.uk) X-Authentication-Warning: mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk: mexas set sender to mexas@bris.ac.uk using -f Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:44:21 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620114421.GA40326@mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Subject: X broken - top quarter of the screen not updated by *some* programs - EXA/XAA issue? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:45:12 -0000 Hi This is on HP Compaq 6715s laptop, amd64, r236740M. At some point (prior to the recent png- triggered update) I started seeing this strainge behaviour: The top part of the screen, about 1/4, is not updated by some windows, and the exact behaviour is affected by Option "AccelMethod". For example if I have Option "AccelMethod" "EXA" Then xterm and xpdf don't update the top part of their windows, which happens to be in top 1/4 of the screen. If I resize the windows such that the top 1/4 of screen is not used, then the whole window is updated. However other programs, e.g. firefox, are not affected. If I switch to XAA: Option "AccelMethod" "XAA" then the situation is partly reversed. Now xterm is not affected, but firefox can't update the top part of it's window, if it happens to occupy the top 1/4 of the screen. xpdf behaviour is unaffected - whether I use XAA or EXA, xpdf can't update the top part of its window if it lies in the top 1/4 of the screen. I'm not sure what to make of it. Below are my xorg.conf, xdm.log and Xorg.0.log when I use EXA option. Finally, not sure if it's related, but I have to disable DRI for X to work at all. Please advise Thanks ******************************************************************************* xorg.conf ******************************************************************************* Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "X.org Configured" Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" EndSection Section "Files" ModulePath "/usr/local/lib/xorg/modules" FontPath "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/misc/" FontPath "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/" FontPath "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/OTF" FontPath "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/" FontPath "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/" FontPath "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/" FontPath "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/terminus-font/" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Keyboard0" Driver "kbd" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "auto" Option "Device" "/dev/sysmouse" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5 6 7" EndSection Section "Monitor" #DisplaySize 330 210 # mm Identifier "Monitor0" VendorName "LPL" ModelName "d600" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Card0" Driver "radeon" VendorName "Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI" BoardName "RS690M [Radeon X1200 Series]" BusID "PCI:1:5:0" Option "DRI" "off" Option "AccelMethod" "EXA" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Card0" Monitor "Monitor0" SubSection "Display" Viewport 0 0 Depth 24 Modes "1280x1280" EndSubSection EndSection ******************************************************************************* xdm.log ******************************************************************************* xdm info (pid 50419): Starting xdm info (pid 50419): Starting X server on :0 X.Org X Server 1.7.7 Release Date: 2010-05-04 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0 Build Operating System: FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT amd64 Current Operating System: FreeBSD mech-aslap239.men.bris.ac.uk 10.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT #1 r236740M: Tue Jun 12 15:17:21 BST 2012 root@mech-aslap239.men.bris.ac.uk:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/BUZI amd64 Build Date: 11 June 2012 12:11:20PM Current version of pixman: 0.24.2 Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org to make sure that you have the latest version. Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Wed Jun 20 12:38:59 2012 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" XRANDR name: VGA-0 Connector: VGA CRT1: INTERNAL_KLDSCP_DAC1 DDC reg: 0x7e50 XRANDR name: LVDS Connector: LVDS LCD1: INTERNAL_LVTM1 DDC reg: 0x7e40 Dac detection success finished output detect: 0 finished output detect: 1 finished all detect Dac detection success Output LCD1 disable success Blank CRTC 0 success Disable CRTC 0 success Blank CRTC 1 success Disable CRTC 1 success Output CRT1 disable success Output LCD1 disable success Blank CRTC 0 success Disable CRTC 0 success Blank CRTC 1 success Disable CRTC 1 success Output LCD1 disable success Blank CRTC 0 success Disable CRTC 0 success Set CRTC 0 Source success Mode 1280x800 - 1440 823 10 Picked PLL 0 best_freq: 71152 best_feedback_div: 159 best_frac_feedback_div: 0 best_ref_div: 2 best_post_div: 16 Set CRTC 0 PLL success Set CRTC Timing success Set CRTC 0 Overscan success Not using RMX scaler 0 setup success Set CRTC 0 Source success crtc 0 YUV disable setup success Output digital setup success Output LCD1 enable success Enable CRTC 0 success Unblank CRTC 0 success Output CRT1 disable success Blank CRTC 1 success Disable CRTC 1 success xdm info (pid 50426): sourcing /usr/local/lib/X11/xdm/Xsetup_0 xdm info (pid 50426): sourcing /usr/local/lib/X11/xdm/GiveConsole xdm info (pid 50435): executing session /usr/local/lib/X11/xdm/Xsession ******************************************************************************* Xorg.0.log ******************************************************************************* X.Org X Server 1.7.7 Release Date: 2010-05-04 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0 Build Operating System: FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT amd64 Current Operating System: FreeBSD mech-aslap239.men.bris.ac.uk 10.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT #1 r236740M: Tue Jun 12 15:17:21 BST 2012 root@mech-aslap239.men.bris.ac.uk:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/BUZI amd64 Build Date: 11 June 2012 12:11:20PM Current version of pixman: 0.24.2 Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org to make sure that you have the latest version. Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Wed Jun 20 12:38:59 2012 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" (==) ServerLayout "X.org Configured" (**) |-->Screen "Screen0" (0) (**) | |-->Monitor "Monitor0" (**) | |-->Device "Card0" (**) |-->Input Device "Mouse0" (**) |-->Input Device "Keyboard0" (==) Not automatically adding devices (==) Not automatically enabling devices (**) FontPath set to: /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/misc/, /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/, /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/OTF, /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/, /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/, /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/, /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/terminus-font/, /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/misc/, /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/, /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/OTF, /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/, /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/, /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/ (**) ModulePath set to "/usr/local/lib/xorg/modules" (II) Loader magic: 0x7bd3c0 (II) Module ABI versions: X.Org ANSI C Emulation: 0.4 X.Org Video Driver: 6.0 X.Org XInput driver : 7.0 X.Org Server Extension : 2.0 (--) Using syscons driver with X support (version 2.0) (--) using VT number 9 (--) PCI:*(0:1:5:0) 1002:791f:103c:30c2 Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI RS690M [Radeon X1200 Series] rev 0, Mem @ 0xc0000000/134217728, 0xd0200000/65536, 0xd0300000/1048576, I/O @ 0x00004000/256, BIOS @ 0x????????/65536 (II) LoadModule: "extmod" (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libextmod.so (II) Module extmod: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.0.0 Module class: X.Org Server Extension ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 2.0 (II) Loading extension MIT-SCREEN-SAVER (II) Loading extension XFree86-VidModeExtension (II) Loading extension XFree86-DGA (II) Loading extension DPMS (II) Loading extension XVideo (II) Loading extension XVideo-MotionCompensation (II) Loading extension X-Resource (II) LoadModule: "dbe" (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libdbe.so (II) Module dbe: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.0.0 Module class: X.Org Server Extension ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 2.0 (II) Loading extension DOUBLE-BUFFER (II) LoadModule: "glx" (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so (II) Module glx: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.0.0 ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 2.0 (==) AIGLX disabled (II) Loading extension GLX (II) LoadModule: "record" (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/librecord.so (II) Module record: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.13.0 Module class: X.Org Server Extension ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 2.0 (II) Loading extension RECORD (II) LoadModule: "dri" (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libdri.so (II) Module dri: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.0.0 ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 2.0 (II) Loading extension XFree86-DRI (II) LoadModule: "dri2" (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libdri2.so (II) Module dri2: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.1.0 ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 2.0 (II) Loading extension DRI2 (II) LoadModule: "radeon" (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/radeon_drv.so (II) Module radeon: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 6.14.3 Module class: X.Org Video Driver ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 6.0 (II) LoadModule: "mouse" (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/input/mouse_drv.so (II) Module mouse: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.7.1 Module class: X.Org XInput Driver ABI class: X.Org XInput driver, version 7.0 (II) LoadModule: "kbd" (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/input/kbd_drv.so (II) Module kbd: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.6.1 Module class: X.Org XInput Driver ABI class: X.Org XInput driver, version 7.0 (II) RADEON: Driver for ATI Radeon chipsets: ATI Radeon Mobility X600 (M24) 3150 (PCIE), ATI FireMV 2400 (PCI), ATI Radeon Mobility X300 (M24) 3152 (PCIE), ATI FireGL M24 GL 3154 (PCIE), ATI FireMV 2400 3155 (PCI), ATI Radeon X600 (RV380) 3E50 (PCIE), ATI FireGL V3200 (RV380) 3E54 (PCIE), ATI Radeon IGP320 (A3) 4136, ATI Radeon IGP330/340/350 (A4) 4137, ATI Radeon 9500 AD (AGP), ATI Radeon 9500 AE (AGP), ATI Radeon 9600TX AF (AGP), ATI FireGL Z1 AG (AGP), ATI Radeon 9800SE AH (AGP), ATI Radeon 9800 AI (AGP), ATI Radeon 9800 AJ (AGP), ATI FireGL X2 AK (AGP), ATI Radeon 9600 AP (AGP), ATI Radeon 9600SE AQ (AGP), ATI Radeon 9600XT AR (AGP), ATI Radeon 9600 AS (AGP), ATI FireGL T2 AT (AGP), ATI Radeon 9650, ATI FireGL RV360 AV (AGP), ATI Radeon 7000 IGP (A4+) 4237, ATI Radeon 8500 AIW BB (AGP), ATI Radeon IGP320M (U1) 4336, ATI Radeon IGP330M/340M/350M (U2) 4337, ATI Radeon Mobility 7000 IGP 4437, ATI Radeon 9000/PRO If (AGP/PCI), ATI Radeon 9000 Ig (AGP/PCI), ATI Radeon X800 (R420) JH (AGP), ATI Radeon X800PRO (R420) JI (AGP), ATI Radeon X800SE (R420) JJ (AGP), ATI Radeon X800 (R420) JK (AGP), ATI Radeon X800 (R420) JL (AGP), ATI FireGL X3 (R420) JM (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility 9800 (M18) JN (AGP), ATI Radeon X800 SE (R420) (AGP), ATI Radeon X800XT (R420) JP (AGP), ATI Radeon X800 VE (R420) JT (AGP), ATI Radeon X850 (R480) (AGP), ATI Radeon X850 XT (R480) (AGP), ATI Radeon X850 SE (R480) (AGP), ATI Radeon X850 PRO (R480) (AGP), ATI Radeon X850 XT PE (R480) (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility M7 LW (AGP), ATI Mobility FireGL 7800 M7 LX (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility M6 LY (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility M6 LZ (AGP), ATI FireGL Mobility 9000 (M9) Ld (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility 9000 (M9) Lf (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility 9000 (M9) Lg (AGP), ATI Radeon 9700 Pro ND (AGP), ATI Radeon 9700/9500Pro NE (AGP), ATI Radeon 9600TX NF (AGP), ATI FireGL X1 NG (AGP), ATI Radeon 9800PRO NH (AGP), ATI Radeon 9800 NI (AGP), ATI FireGL X2 NK (AGP), ATI Radeon 9800XT NJ (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility 9600/9700 (M10/M11) NP (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility 9600 (M10) NQ (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility 9600 (M11) NR (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility 9600 (M10) NS (AGP), ATI FireGL Mobility T2 (M10) NT (AGP), ATI FireGL Mobility T2e (M11) NV (AGP), ATI Radeon QD (AGP), ATI Radeon QE (AGP), ATI Radeon QF (AGP), ATI Radeon QG (AGP), ATI FireGL 8700/8800 QH (AGP), ATI Radeon 8500 QL (AGP), ATI Radeon 9100 QM (AGP), ATI Radeon 7500 QW (AGP/PCI), ATI Radeon 7500 QX (AGP/PCI), ATI Radeon VE/7000 QY (AGP/PCI), ATI Radeon VE/7000 QZ (AGP/PCI), ATI ES1000 515E (PCI), ATI Radeon Mobility X300 (M22) 5460 (PCIE), ATI Radeon Mobility X600 SE (M24C) 5462 (PCIE), ATI FireGL M22 GL 5464 (PCIE), ATI Radeon X800 (R423) UH (PCIE), ATI Radeon X800PRO (R423) UI (PCIE), ATI Radeon X800LE (R423) UJ (PCIE), ATI Radeon X800SE (R423) UK (PCIE), ATI Radeon X800 XTP (R430) (PCIE), ATI Radeon X800 XL (R430) (PCIE), ATI Radeon X800 SE (R430) (PCIE), ATI Radeon X800 (R430) (PCIE), ATI FireGL V7100 (R423) (PCIE), ATI FireGL V5100 (R423) UQ (PCIE), ATI FireGL unknown (R423) UR (PCIE), ATI FireGL unknown (R423) UT (PCIE), ATI Mobility FireGL V5000 (M26) (PCIE), ATI Mobility FireGL V5000 (M26) (PCIE), ATI Mobility Radeon X700 XL (M26) (PCIE), ATI Mobility Radeon X700 (M26) (PCIE), ATI Mobility Radeon X700 (M26) (PCIE), ATI Radeon X550XTX 5657 (PCIE), ATI Radeon 9100 IGP (A5) 5834, ATI Radeon Mobility 9100 IGP (U3) 5835, ATI Radeon XPRESS 200 5954 (PCIE), ATI Radeon XPRESS 200M 5955 (PCIE), ATI Radeon 9250 5960 (AGP), ATI Radeon 9200 5961 (AGP), ATI Radeon 9200 5962 (AGP), ATI Radeon 9200SE 5964 (AGP), ATI FireMV 2200 (PCI), ATI ES1000 5969 (PCI), ATI Radeon XPRESS 200 5974 (PCIE), ATI Radeon XPRESS 200M 5975 (PCIE), ATI Radeon XPRESS 200 5A41 (PCIE), ATI Radeon XPRESS 200M 5A42 (PCIE), ATI Radeon XPRESS 200 5A61 (PCIE), ATI Radeon XPRESS 200M 5A62 (PCIE), ATI Radeon X300 (RV370) 5B60 (PCIE), ATI Radeon X600 (RV370) 5B62 (PCIE), ATI Radeon X550 (RV370) 5B63 (PCIE), ATI FireGL V3100 (RV370) 5B64 (PCIE), ATI FireMV 2200 PCIE (RV370) 5B65 (PCIE), ATI Radeon Mobility 9200 (M9+) 5C61 (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility 9200 (M9+) 5C63 (AGP), ATI Mobility Radeon X800 XT (M28) (PCIE), ATI Mobility FireGL V5100 (M28) (PCIE), ATI Mobility Radeon X800 (M28) (PCIE), ATI Radeon X850 5D4C (PCIE), ATI Radeon X850 XT PE (R480) (PCIE), ATI Radeon X850 SE (R480) (PCIE), ATI Radeon X850 PRO (R480) (PCIE), ATI unknown Radeon / FireGL (R480) 5D50 (PCIE), ATI Radeon X850 XT (R480) (PCIE), ATI Radeon X800XT (R423) 5D57 (PCIE), ATI FireGL V5000 (RV410) (PCIE), ATI Radeon X700 XT (RV410) (PCIE), ATI Radeon X700 PRO (RV410) (PCIE), ATI Radeon X700 SE (RV410) (PCIE), ATI Radeon X700 (RV410) (PCIE), ATI Radeon X700 SE (RV410) (PCIE), ATI Radeon X1800, ATI Mobility Radeon X1800 XT, ATI Mobility Radeon X1800, ATI Mobility FireGL V7200, ATI FireGL V7200, ATI FireGL V5300, ATI Mobility FireGL V7100, ATI Radeon X1800, ATI Radeon X1800, ATI Radeon X1800, ATI Radeon X1800, ATI Radeon X1800, ATI FireGL V7300, ATI FireGL V7350, ATI Radeon X1600, ATI RV505, ATI Radeon X1300/X1550, ATI Radeon X1550, ATI M54-GL, ATI Mobility Radeon X1400, ATI Radeon X1300/X1550, ATI Radeon X1550 64-bit, ATI Mobility Radeon X1300, ATI Mobility Radeon X1300, ATI Mobility Radeon X1300, ATI Mobility Radeon X1300, ATI Radeon X1300, ATI Radeon X1300, ATI RV505, ATI RV505, ATI FireGL V3300, ATI FireGL V3350, ATI Radeon X1300, ATI Radeon X1550 64-bit, ATI Radeon X1300/X1550, ATI Radeon X1600, ATI Radeon X1300/X1550, ATI Mobility Radeon X1450, ATI Radeon X1300/X1550, ATI Mobility Radeon X2300, ATI Mobility Radeon X2300, ATI Mobility Radeon X1350, ATI Mobility Radeon X1350, ATI Mobility Radeon X1450, ATI Radeon X1300, ATI Radeon X1550, ATI Mobility Radeon X1350, ATI FireMV 2250, ATI Radeon X1550 64-bit, ATI Radeon X1600, ATI Radeon X1650, ATI Radeon X1600, ATI Radeon X1600, ATI Mobility FireGL V5200, ATI Mobility Radeon X1600, ATI Radeon X1650, ATI Radeon X1650, ATI Radeon X1600, ATI Radeon X1300 XT/X1600 Pro, ATI FireGL V3400, ATI Mobility FireGL V5250, ATI Mobility Radeon X1700, ATI Mobility Radeon X1700 XT, ATI FireGL V5200, ATI Mobility Radeon X1700, ATI Radeon X2300HD, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2300, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2300, ATI Radeon X1950, ATI Radeon X1900, ATI Radeon X1950, ATI Radeon X1900, ATI Radeon X1900, ATI Radeon X1900, ATI Radeon X1900, ATI Radeon X1900, ATI Radeon X1900, ATI Radeon X1900, ATI Radeon X1900, ATI Radeon X1900, ATI AMD Stream Processor, ATI Radeon X1900, ATI Radeon X1950, ATI RV560, ATI RV560, ATI Mobility Radeon X1900, ATI RV560, ATI Radeon X1950 GT, ATI RV570, ATI RV570, ATI FireGL V7400, ATI RV560, ATI Radeon X1650, ATI Radeon X1650, ATI RV560, ATI Radeon 9100 PRO IGP 7834, ATI Radeon Mobility 9200 IGP 7835, ATI Radeon X1200, ATI Radeon X1200, ATI Radeon X1200, ATI Radeon X1200, ATI Radeon X1200, ATI RS740, ATI RS740M, ATI RS740, ATI RS740M, ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT, ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT, ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT, ATI Radeon HD 2900 Pro, ATI Radeon HD 2900 GT, ATI FireGL V8650, ATI FireGL V8600, ATI FireGL V7600, ATI Radeon 4800 Series, ATI Radeon HD 4870 x2, ATI Radeon 4800 Series, ATI Radeon HD 4850 x2, ATI FirePro V8750 (FireGL), ATI FirePro V7760 (FireGL), ATI Mobility RADEON HD 4850, ATI Mobility RADEON HD 4850 X2, ATI Radeon 4800 Series, ATI FirePro RV770, AMD FireStream 9270, AMD FireStream 9250, ATI FirePro V8700 (FireGL), ATI Mobility RADEON HD 4870, ATI Mobility RADEON M98, ATI Mobility RADEON HD 4870, ATI Radeon 4800 Series, ATI Radeon 4800 Series, ATI FirePro M7750, ATI M98, ATI M98, ATI M98, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650, ATI Radeon RV730 (AGP), ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4670, ATI FirePro M5750, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4670, ATI Radeon RV730 (AGP), ATI RV730XT [Radeon HD 4670], ATI RADEON E4600, ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series, ATI RV730 PRO [Radeon HD 4650], ATI FirePro V7750 (FireGL), ATI FirePro V5700 (FireGL), ATI FirePro V3750 (FireGL), ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4830, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4850, ATI FirePro M7740, ATI RV740, ATI Radeon HD 4770, ATI Radeon HD 4700 Series, ATI Radeon HD 4770, ATI FirePro M5750, ATI RV610, ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT, ATI Radeon HD 2400 Pro, ATI Radeon HD 2400 PRO AGP, ATI FireGL V4000, ATI RV610, ATI Radeon HD 2350, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2400 XT, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2400, ATI RADEON E2400, ATI RV610, ATI FireMV 2260, ATI RV670, ATI Radeon HD3870, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3850, ATI Radeon HD3850, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3850 X2, ATI RV670, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3870, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3870 X2, ATI Radeon HD3870 X2, ATI FireGL V7700, ATI Radeon HD3850, ATI Radeon HD3690, AMD Firestream 9170, ATI Radeon HD 4550, ATI Radeon RV710, ATI Radeon RV710, ATI Radeon RV710, ATI Radeon HD 4350, ATI Mobility Radeon 4300 Series, ATI Mobility Radeon 4500 Series, ATI Mobility Radeon 4500 Series, ATI FirePro RG220, ATI Mobility Radeon 4330, ATI RV630, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2600, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2600 XT, ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT AGP, ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro AGP, ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT, ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro, ATI Gemini RV630, ATI Gemini Mobility Radeon HD 2600 XT, ATI FireGL V5600, ATI FireGL V3600, ATI Radeon HD 2600 LE, ATI Mobility FireGL Graphics Processor, ATI Radeon HD 3470, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3430, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3400 Series, ATI Radeon HD 3450, ATI Radeon HD 3450, ATI Radeon HD 3430, ATI Radeon HD 3450, ATI FirePro V3700, ATI FireMV 2450, ATI FireMV 2260, ATI FireMV 2260, ATI Radeon HD 3600 Series, ATI Radeon HD 3650 AGP, ATI Radeon HD 3600 PRO, ATI Radeon HD 3600 XT, ATI Radeon HD 3600 PRO, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3670, ATI Mobility FireGL V5700, ATI Mobility FireGL V5725, ATI Radeon HD 3200 Graphics, ATI Radeon 3100 Graphics, ATI Radeon HD 3200 Graphics, ATI Radeon 3100 Graphics, ATI Radeon HD 3300 Graphics, ATI Radeon HD 3200 Graphics, ATI Radeon 3000 Graphics, SUMO, SUMO, SUMO2, SUMO2, SUMO2, SUMO2, SUMO, SUMO, SUMO, SUMO, SUMO, ATI Radeon HD 4200, ATI Radeon 4100, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4200, ATI Mobility Radeon 4100, ATI Radeon HD 4290, ATI Radeon HD 4250, AMD Radeon HD 6310 Graphics, AMD Radeon HD 6310 Graphics, AMD Radeon HD 6250 Graphics, AMD Radeon HD 6250 Graphics, AMD Radeon HD 6300 Series Graphics, AMD Radeon HD 6200 Series Graphics, CYPRESS, ATI FirePro (FireGL) Graphics Adapter, ATI FirePro (FireGL) Graphics Adapter, ATI FirePro (FireGL) Graphics Adapter, AMD Firestream 9370, AMD Firestream 9350, ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series, ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series, ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series, ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series, ATI Radeon HD 5900 Series, ATI Radeon HD 5900 Series, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5800 Series, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5800 Series, ATI FirePro (FireGL) Graphics Adapter, ATI FirePro (FireGL) Graphics Adapter, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5800 Series, ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series, ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series, ATI Radeon HD 6700 Series, ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series, ATI Radeon HD 6700 Series, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5000 Series, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5000 Series, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5570, ATI FirePro (FireGL) Graphics Adapter, ATI FirePro (FireGL) Graphics Adapter, ATI Radeon HD 5670, ATI Radeon HD 5570, ATI Radeon HD 5500 Series, REDWOOD, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5000 Series, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5000 Series, ATI Mobility Radeon Graphics, ATI Mobility Radeon Graphics, CEDAR, ATI FirePro (FireGL) Graphics Adapter, ATI FirePro (FireGL) Graphics Adapter, ATI FirePro 2270, CEDAR, ATI Radeon HD 5450, CEDAR, CAYMAN, CAYMAN, CAYMAN, CAYMAN, CAYMAN, CAYMAN, CAYMAN, CAYMAN, CAYMAN, CAYMAN, AMD Radeon HD 6900 Series, AMD Radeon HD 6900 Series, CAYMAN, CAYMAN, CAYMAN, AMD Radeon HD 6900M Series, Mobility Radeon HD 6000 Series, BARTS, BARTS, Mobility Radeon HD 6000 Series, Mobility Radeon HD 6000 Series, BARTS, BARTS, BARTS, BARTS, AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series, AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series, AMD Radeon HD 6700 Series, TURKS, TURKS, TURKS, TURKS, TURKS, TURKS, TURKS, TURKS, TURKS, TURKS, TURKS, TURKS, TURKS, TURKS, CAICOS, CAICOS, CAICOS, CAICOS, CAICOS, CAICOS, CAICOS, CAICOS, CAICOS, CAICOS, CAICOS, CAICOS (II) Primary Device is: PCI 01@00:05:0 (WW) VGA arbiter: cannot open kernel arbiter, no multi-card support (II) RADEON(0): TOTO SAYS 00000000d0200000 (II) RADEON(0): MMIO registers at 0x00000000d0200000: size 64KB (II) RADEON(0): PCI bus 1 card 5 func 0 (==) RADEON(0): Depth 24, (--) framebuffer bpp 32 (II) RADEON(0): Pixel depth = 24 bits stored in 4 bytes (32 bpp pixmaps) (==) RADEON(0): Default visual is TrueColor (**) RADEON(0): Option "AccelMethod" "XAA" (**) RADEON(0): Option "DRI" "off" (II) Loading sub module "vgahw" (II) LoadModule: "vgahw" (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/libvgahw.so (II) Module vgahw: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 0.1.0 ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 6.0 (II) RADEON(0): vgaHWGetIOBase: hwp->IOBase is 0x03d0, hwp->PIOOffset is 0x0000 (==) RADEON(0): RGB weight 888 (II) RADEON(0): Using 8 bits per RGB (8 bit DAC) (--) RADEON(0): Chipset: "ATI Radeon X1200" (ChipID = 0x791f) (--) RADEON(0): Linear framebuffer at 0x00000000c0000000 (II) RADEON(0): PCI card detected (II) Loading sub module "int10" (II) LoadModule: "int10" (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/libint10.so (II) Module int10: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.0.0 ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 6.0 (II) RADEON(0): initializing int10 (==) RADEON(0): Write-combining range (0xa0000,0x20000) was already clear (==) RADEON(0): Write-combining range (0xc0000,0x40000) was already clear (II) RADEON(0): Primary V_BIOS segment is: 0xc000 (==) RADEON(0): Write-combining range (0x0,0x1000) was already clear (II) RADEON(0): ATOM BIOS detected (II) RADEON(0): ATOM BIOS Rom: SubsystemVendorID: 0x1002 SubsystemID: 0x791f IOBaseAddress: 0x4000 Filename: br23883.bin BIOS Bootup Message: ATI Radeon Xpress ?1250? for HP_TT (II) RADEON(0): Framebuffer space used by Firmware (kb): 20 (II) RADEON(0): Start of VRAM area used by Firmware: 0x7ffb000 (II) RADEON(0): AtomBIOS requests 20kB of VRAM scratch space (II) RADEON(0): AtomBIOS VRAM scratch base: 0x7ffb000 (II) RADEON(0): Cannot get VRAM scratch space. Allocating in main memory instead (II) RADEON(0): Default Engine Clock: 400000 (II) RADEON(0): Default Memory Clock: 200000 (II) RADEON(0): Maximum Pixel ClockPLL Frequency Output: 1200000 (II) RADEON(0): Minimum Pixel ClockPLL Frequency Output: 0 (II) RADEON(0): Maximum Pixel ClockPLL Frequency Input: 13500 (II) RADEON(0): Minimum Pixel ClockPLL Frequency Input: 1000 (II) RADEON(0): Maximum Pixel Clock: 400000 (II) RADEON(0): Reference Clock: 14320 (II) RADEON(0): Direct rendering forced off (II) RADEON(0): Generation 2 PCI interface, using max accessible memory (II) RADEON(0): Detected total video RAM=131072K, accessible=131072K (PCI BAR=131072K) (--) RADEON(0): Mapped VideoRAM: 131072 kByte (128 bit DDR SDRAM) (II) RADEON(0): Color tiling enabled by default (II) Loading sub module "ddc" (II) LoadModule: "ddc" (II) Module "ddc" already built-in (II) Loading sub module "i2c" (II) LoadModule: "i2c" (II) Module "i2c" already built-in (II) RADEON(0): PLL parameters: rf=1432 rd=12 min=80000 max=120000; xclk=40000 (WW) RADEON(0): LVDS Info: XRes: 1280, YRes: 800, DotClock: 71000 HBlank: 160, HOverPlus: 48, HSyncWidth: 32 VBlank: 23, VOverPlus: 3, VSyncWidth: 6 (II) RADEON(0): Skipping TV-Out (II) RADEON(0): Skipping Component Video (II) RADEON(0): Output VGA-0 using monitor section Monitor0 (II) RADEON(0): I2C bus "VGA-0" initialized. (II) RADEON(0): Output LVDS has no monitor section (II) RADEON(0): I2C bus "LVDS" initialized. (II) RADEON(0): Port0: XRANDR name: VGA-0 Connector: VGA CRT1: INTERNAL_KLDSCP_DAC1 DDC reg: 0x7e50 (II) RADEON(0): Port1: XRANDR name: LVDS Connector: LVDS LCD1: INTERNAL_LVTM1 DDC reg: 0x7e40 (II) RADEON(0): I2C device "VGA-0:ddc2" registered at address 0xA0. Dac detection success (II) RADEON(0): Output: VGA-0, Detected Monitor Type: 0 finished output detect: 0 (II) RADEON(0): I2C device "LVDS:ddc2" registered at address 0xA0. (II) RADEON(0): Output: LVDS, Detected Monitor Type: 2 (II) RADEON(0): EDID data from the display on output: LVDS ---------------------- (II) RADEON(0): Manufacturer: LPL Model: d600 Serial#: 0 (II) RADEON(0): Year: 2006 Week: 0 (II) RADEON(0): EDID Version: 1.3 (II) RADEON(0): Digital Display Input (II) RADEON(0): Max Image Size [cm]: horiz.: 33 vert.: 21 (II) RADEON(0): Gamma: 2.20 (II) RADEON(0): No DPMS capabilities specified (II) RADEON(0): Supported color encodings: RGB 4:4:4 YCrCb 4:4:4 (II) RADEON(0): First detailed timing is preferred mode (II) RADEON(0): redX: 0.600 redY: 0.351 greenX: 0.324 greenY: 0.554 (II) RADEON(0): blueX: 0.153 blueY: 0.145 whiteX: 0.312 whiteY: 0.328 (II) RADEON(0): Manufacturer's mask: 0 (II) RADEON(0): Supported detailed timing: (II) RADEON(0): clock: 71.0 MHz Image Size: 331 x 207 mm (II) RADEON(0): h_active: 1280 h_sync: 1328 h_sync_end 1360 h_blank_end 1440 h_border: 0 (II) RADEON(0): v_active: 800 v_sync: 803 v_sync_end 809 v_blanking: 823 v_border: 0 (II) RADEON(0): LGPhilipsLCD (II) RADEON(0): LP154WX4-TLA1 (II) RADEON(0): EDID (in hex): (II) RADEON(0): 00ffffffffffff00320c00d600000000 (II) RADEON(0): 00100103802115780ab3409959538d27 (II) RADEON(0): 25505400000001010101010101010101 (II) RADEON(0): 010101010101bc1b00a0502017303020 (II) RADEON(0): 36004bcf100000190000000000000000 (II) RADEON(0): 00000000000000000000000000fe004c (II) RADEON(0): 475068696c6970734c43440a000000fe (II) RADEON(0): 004c503135345758342d544c4131004d finished output detect: 1 finished all detect Dac detection success (II) RADEON(0): Output: VGA-0, Detected Monitor Type: 0 (II) RADEON(0): Output: LVDS, Detected Monitor Type: 2 (II) RADEON(0): EDID data from the display on output: LVDS ---------------------- (II) RADEON(0): Manufacturer: LPL Model: d600 Serial#: 0 (II) RADEON(0): Year: 2006 Week: 0 (II) RADEON(0): EDID Version: 1.3 (II) RADEON(0): Digital Display Input (II) RADEON(0): Max Image Size [cm]: horiz.: 33 vert.: 21 (II) RADEON(0): Gamma: 2.20 (II) RADEON(0): No DPMS capabilities specified (II) RADEON(0): Supported color encodings: RGB 4:4:4 YCrCb 4:4:4 (II) RADEON(0): First detailed timing is preferred mode (II) RADEON(0): redX: 0.600 redY: 0.351 greenX: 0.324 greenY: 0.554 (II) RADEON(0): blueX: 0.153 blueY: 0.145 whiteX: 0.312 whiteY: 0.328 (II) RADEON(0): Manufacturer's mask: 0 (II) RADEON(0): Supported detailed timing: (II) RADEON(0): clock: 71.0 MHz Image Size: 331 x 207 mm (II) RADEON(0): h_active: 1280 h_sync: 1328 h_sync_end 1360 h_blank_end 1440 h_border: 0 (II) RADEON(0): v_active: 800 v_sync: 803 v_sync_end 809 v_blanking: 823 v_border: 0 (II) RADEON(0): LGPhilipsLCD (II) RADEON(0): LP154WX4-TLA1 (II) RADEON(0): EDID (in hex): (II) RADEON(0): 00ffffffffffff00320c00d600000000 (II) RADEON(0): 00100103802115780ab3409959538d27 (II) RADEON(0): 25505400000001010101010101010101 (II) RADEON(0): 010101010101bc1b00a0502017303020 (II) RADEON(0): 36004bcf100000190000000000000000 (II) RADEON(0): 00000000000000000000000000fe004c (II) RADEON(0): 475068696c6970734c43440a000000fe (II) RADEON(0): 004c503135345758342d544c4131004d (II) RADEON(0): EDID vendor "LPL", prod id 54784 (II) RADEON(0): Output VGA-0 disconnected (II) RADEON(0): Output LVDS connected (II) RADEON(0): Using exact sizes for initial modes (II) RADEON(0): Output LVDS using initial mode 1280x800 (II) RADEON(0): Using default gamma of (1.0, 1.0, 1.0) unless otherwise stated. (==) RADEON(0): DPI set to (96, 96) (II) Loading sub module "fb" (II) LoadModule: "fb" (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/libfb.so (II) Module fb: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.0.0 ABI class: X.Org ANSI C Emulation, version 0.4 (II) Loading sub module "ramdac" (II) LoadModule: "ramdac" (II) Module "ramdac" already built-in (**) RADEON(0): Using XAA acceleration architecture (II) Loading sub module "xaa" (II) LoadModule: "xaa" (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/libxaa.so (II) Module xaa: vendor="X.Org Foundation" compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.2.1 ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 6.0 (==) RADEON(0): Write-combining range (0x0,0x1000) was already clear (!!) RADEON(0): MergedFB support has been removed and replaced with xrandr 1.2 support (--) Depth 24 pixmap format is 32 bpp (II) RADEON(0): RADEONScreenInit c0000000 0 0 (==) RADEON(0): Write-combining range (0xa0000,0x10000) was already clear Output LCD1 disable success Blank CRTC 0 success Disable CRTC 0 success Blank CRTC 1 success Disable CRTC 1 success (II) RADEON(0): Dynamic Power Management Disabled (II) RADEON(0): RADEONInitMemoryMap() : (II) RADEON(0): mem_size : 0x08000000 (II) RADEON(0): MC_FB_LOCATION : 0xbfffb800 (II) RADEON(0): MC_AGP_LOCATION : 0x003f0000 (II) RADEON(0): Depth moves disabled by default (II) RADEON(0): Memory manager initialized to (0,0) (1280,8191) (II) RADEON(0): Reserved area from (0,1280) to (1280,1282) (II) RADEON(0): Largest offscreen area available: 1280 x 6909 (II) RADEON(0): RADEONRestoreMemMapRegisters() : (II) RADEON(0): MC_FB_LOCATION : 0xbfffb800 0xbfffb800 (II) RADEON(0): MC_AGP_LOCATION : 0x003f0000 (==) RADEON(0): Backing store disabled (WW) RADEON(0): Direct rendering disabled (II) RADEON(0): Render acceleration disabled (II) RADEON(0): num quad-pipes is 1 (II) RADEON(0): Using XFree86 Acceleration Architecture (XAA) Screen to screen bit blits Solid filled rectangles 8x8 mono pattern filled rectangles Indirect CPU to Screen color expansion Solid Lines Scanline Image Writes Setting up tile and stipple cache: 32 128x128 slots 32 256x256 slots 16 512x512 slots (II) RADEON(0): Acceleration enabled (==) RADEON(0): DPMS enabled (==) RADEON(0): Silken mouse enabled (II) RADEON(0): Will use 32 kb for hardware cursor 0 at offset 0x00643000 (II) RADEON(0): Will use 32 kb for hardware cursor 1 at offset 0x00648000 (II) RADEON(0): Largest offscreen area available: 1280 x 6901 (II) RADEON(0): Textured video requires CP on R5xx/R6xx/R7xx/IGP Output CRT1 disable success Output LCD1 disable success Blank CRTC 0 success Disable CRTC 0 success Blank CRTC 1 success Disable CRTC 1 success Output LCD1 disable success Blank CRTC 0 success Disable CRTC 0 success Set CRTC 0 Source success Mode 1280x800 - 1440 823 10 (II) RADEON(0): RADEONRestoreMemMapRegisters() : (II) RADEON(0): MC_FB_LOCATION : 0xbfffb800 0xbfffb800 (II) RADEON(0): MC_AGP_LOCATION : 0x003f0000 Picked PLL 0 best_freq: 71152 best_feedback_div: 159 best_frac_feedback_div: 0 best_ref_div: 2 best_post_div: 16 (II) RADEON(0): crtc(0) Clock: mode 71000, PLL 711520 (II) RADEON(0): crtc(0) PLL : refdiv 2, fbdiv 0x9F(159), fracfbdiv 0, pdiv 16 Set CRTC 0 PLL success Set CRTC Timing success Set CRTC 0 Overscan success Not using RMX scaler 0 setup success Set CRTC 0 Source success crtc 0 YUV disable setup success Output digital setup success Output LCD1 enable success Enable CRTC 0 success Unblank CRTC 0 success Output CRT1 disable success Blank CRTC 1 success Disable CRTC 1 success (II) RADEON(0): RandR 1.2 enabled, ignore the following RandR disabled message. (--) RandR disabled (II) Initializing built-in extension Generic Event Extension (II) Initializing built-in extension SHAPE (II) Initializing built-in extension MIT-SHM (II) Initializing built-in extension XInputExtension (II) Initializing built-in extension XTEST (II) Initializing built-in extension BIG-REQUESTS (II) Initializing built-in extension SYNC (II) Initializing built-in extension XKEYBOARD (II) Initializing built-in extension XC-MISC (II) Initializing built-in extension XINERAMA (II) Initializing built-in extension XFIXES (II) Initializing built-in extension RENDER (II) Initializing built-in extension RANDR (II) Initializing built-in extension COMPOSITE (II) Initializing built-in extension DAMAGE (II) AIGLX: Loaded and initialized /usr/local/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so (II) GLX: Initialized DRISWRAST GL provider for screen 0 (II) RADEON(0): Setting screen physical size to 338 x 211 (WW) Mouse0: No Device specified, looking for one... (II) Mouse0: Setting Device option to "/dev/sysmouse" (--) Mouse0: Device: "/dev/sysmouse" (==) Mouse0: Protocol: "Auto" (**) Option "CorePointer" (**) Mouse0: always reports core events (**) Option "Device" "/dev/sysmouse" (==) Mouse0: Emulate3Buttons, Emulate3Timeout: 50 (**) Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5 6 7" (**) Mouse0: ZAxisMapping: buttons 4, 5, 6 and 7 (**) Mouse0: Buttons: 11 (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Mouse0" (type: MOUSE) (**) Mouse0: (accel) keeping acceleration scheme 1 (**) Mouse0: (accel) acceleration profile 0 (II) Mouse0: SetupAuto: hw.iftype is 4, hw.model is 0 (II) Mouse0: SetupAuto: protocol is SysMouse (**) Option "CoreKeyboard" (**) Keyboard0: always reports core events (**) Option "Protocol" "standard" (**) Option "XkbRules" "base" (**) Option "XkbModel" "pc105" (**) Option "XkbLayout" "us" (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Keyboard0" (type: KEYBOARD) -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 331 5944 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 11:45:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6DE21065723 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:45:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jakub_lach@mailplus.pl) Received: from sam.nabble.com (sam.nabble.com [216.139.236.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79F048FC19 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:45:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ShJLn-0001Pf-T6 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:45:31 -0700 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:45:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Jakub Lach To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:45:32 -0000 Really, this format of discussion is rather exception than rule (from my experience). Nothing wrong with productive flaming for me, but it's just not typical code of conduct in FreeBSD mailing list at all. -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/Why-Clang-tp5715861p5720039.html Sent from the freebsd-questions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 11:46:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58F481065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:46:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C2A8FC18 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:46:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KBkbwi024291; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:46:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KBkb5I024288; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:46:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:46:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Stephen Cook In-Reply-To: <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:46:37 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, "Anonymous Remailer \(austria\)" Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:46:39 -0000 > I'm a relative newcomer. Are the FreeBSD mailing lists always this flame-y? I no. it is temporary. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 11:47:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4DF9106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:47:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 592B58FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:47:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so2761762eek.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:47:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8rJRwLqnNlOSpW9lie2EKhMJ2O1J2KD1OjB6KeNOlDQ=; b=Fg+3kazZgGys3P2g1LkIqifgqlRDFezN9I86D2ZGp1VAHKwtkSX0WB+OYnsavpet5S +HzmFgHoZjMvtVULbCTHiEY0cyP4qE6WepUq7mm9t+4i6L01TQKEsF59JG+SrB9DCKTh UMmEAjTuJzeZcly+xAZViw8i057PznPbAsizuhRV+xDItCS1RvT/cneBb6GoqhvqZPy6 rEVrPQugq6guncsPbm5InnsOV/oCnFtpkpia3ZpENSzw+hZcvQuPdy8YJodRmlbAU1UD iCW3YkCjtDerNPQ7CW9WE05w7d4gcltmSGaeblc+d0cQDET32XcZ1+azmo1dzaFoQIIN BwXA== Received: by 10.14.48.71 with SMTP id u47mr4959803eeb.205.1340192852352; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com (87-194-105-247.bethere.co.uk. [87.194.105.247]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z5sm89473720eem.3.2012.06.20.04.47.30 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:47:29 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620124729.7f50b781@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <4FE18D93.4060809@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FE18D93.4060809@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/* X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:47:33 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:45:07 +0100 Matthew Seaman wrote: > #!/bin/sh > # > # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. > > # PROVIDE: precedence > # REQUIRE: vboxheadless > # BEFORE: samba > > : > > Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. Why? None of the dummy scripts in the base system have a ":". From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 11:48:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E8B1065673 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:48:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5F98FC17 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:48:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KBmF1V024300 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:48:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KBmFlH024297 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:48:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:48:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20120620073454.0a5f2f87@scorpio> Message-ID: References: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <20120620073454.0a5f2f87@scorpio> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:48:15 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:48:16 -0000 > A somewhat haphazardly search of the postings in this forum would seem > to indicate that any post questioning the ethics or usefulness of > FreeBSD as compared to other operating systems that elicit six or more strange but usefulness of FreeBSD wasn't questioned. > > By the way Fred, please don't "Top Post". That pisses people off too, Well. I have to explain people at least once a day not to do it. Sometimes i even get a result and sometime someone learn. rarely. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 11:52:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C86F106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:52:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAB3B8FC1D for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:52:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KBqCJ7024323; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:52:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KBqCb3024320; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:52:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:52:12 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Robert Bonomi In-Reply-To: <201206201019.q5KAJpVP026516@mail.r-bonomi.com> Message-ID: References: <201206201019.q5KAJpVP026516@mail.r-bonomi.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:52:12 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/* X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:52:13 -0000 >> But still - do you know why it is necessary? > > An explanation written some 80 years ago; > 'Because that way it will work'. if you don't have anything to say - just don't do it. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:02:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D8741065677 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:02:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from blue.seahorse.syndicate@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C55BD8FC17 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:02:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so5021438qcs.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:02:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:date:to:subject:mime-version:from:organization :message-id:user-agent; bh=sxHIhOt4Ru/MxHc2mlKDOzW4zwTbxgFbphD+6ttW4d4=; b=AEDVvIKqOZhWGehAZFJ7h94ifxP5JxpJlg/ZjCQZzP7WJoPV17fOJFJ5bbtDPsx9a8 1EhX5UWaM8rcJ+Dnnq+EmTb4s8gNJKv7igDdaczyzZCWKhf5QE8Ri6SX65HfJFUvZ5YC coXra0Vzf603483RZE7SoiDuP5HQ0fxxT5gdYHiOLslIUwaCqK0AInRlTnHmDjBnipjD F9J9lXX753Hm1bwwwA0dtDfciMoBS5N6/7EsCzILm0cS6LrF7DQA5jKdVeUr0hK23DAA x74BAb7wKoQVc16RhJrg2oWMDw935N09rfknexpG+q8meV/RJHudZDVlVPYCKK7xyGrj c9ow== Received: by 10.229.137.138 with SMTP id w10mr2671785qct.17.1340193752583; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blueleafone (pool-72-73-72-102.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net. [72.73.72.102]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gy9sm55207081qab.22.2012.06.20.05.02.31 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:02:29 -0400 To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Lynn Steven Killingsworth Organization: Blue Seahorse Syndicate Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (Win64) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Need latest xorg X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:02:35 -0000 Hi FreeBSD - I have an AMD HD 7950 video card so I am trying to install the latest FreeBSD xorg available (7.5.2) for an updated driver. When I start make the install immediately stops at MesaLib-7.6.1.tar.gz. I can restart it on a primary using the location given then after a short time the install stops at /x11/9menu (/9menu-1.8.shar.gz) I can also attempt to restart this on a couple of servers but after a trip around the world my install still stops at /x11/9menu I live in Maine (USA) so I pick the MIT primary ftp5 since I inadvertly determined it was MIT. ftp1 also sends me on a trip around the world with the same result. If I can install xorg-7.5.2 I am hoping then that the install of kde4-4.8.4 will complete on this new install of FreeBSD 9.0 Does anyone else have a favorite ftp that cooperates? (And I notice the location in the server is different from the primaries on other servers?) Steve -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:02:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEFC11065674 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:02:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A8208FC1B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:02:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KC2aKW024412; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:02:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KC2axu024409; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:02:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:02:35 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Robert Bonomi In-Reply-To: <201206201015.q5KAFKKj026496@mail.r-bonomi.com> Message-ID: References: <201206201015.q5KAFKKj026496@mail.r-bonomi.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:02:36 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:02:37 -0000 >> still not stopped personal attacks (last part of last sentence) but lets >> forget. > > Fact; that was NOT a personal attack. Your entire line of reasoning so far > has been about -your- preferences, and things as you see them, for _your_ What is specifically my preference? > 1) Your opinion about the choice of the standard compiler "doesn't matter". Once more - messing with my words and you know this. I am saying that it doesn't matter others than performance. Clang performance is just bad. > 2) The decision _has_ been made. The only question at this point is "when". And can be reversed because it is faulty. I successfully predicted the fall of linux (in quality point of view) years ago, then netbsd - after this and my prediction were good. Now i predict FreeBSD will fall within 2015 time frame. What i mean fall - that it would be better to use older version as long as possible because newer are worse. For now - FreeBSD 6 was an improvement - FreeBSD 7 was an improvement, except first releases but that's normal - FreeBSD 8 was a big improvement in performance and quality. FreeBSD 9 as for now: - have similar performance at most - have some improvement and important functionality like TRIM support. - have some useful functionality like softdep journalling, but risky. Still - forcing full check reveals some inconsistencies now and then. FreeBSD 10 will unlikely be better, but for sure slower unless you will force gcc build that MAYBE will work. possibly not. So now there will be more and more backports done by users just for new drivers until something that replace FreeBSD will be available. Assuming there will at all. Wish i am wrong. Twice i wasn't From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:02:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1991E10656E7 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:02:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A81B58FC14 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:02:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so6571132yen.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:02:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=u/dGFMpivNAOxOQ/sXp9yZhn7hFOgnAV6vkq15YFP8k=; b=G8YPq50eCnh6XyROVkdnpY+bR+xLA2fFrIUmymXTPdDJYdZEZdiMlc1U7gPUMdIfpk DQSo8+hvlHom5VsvlPAqtbElaz7KWoPgA3Du2ja7zjzBzpvRC619MafnczS55kni2ENp Ac9gIcMZWVJkxNOpyzb36jhw1dxZPW/9UimCc= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=u/dGFMpivNAOxOQ/sXp9yZhn7hFOgnAV6vkq15YFP8k=; b=AMBaITdPhK08jmHAl9YDGjFIQIDikt1WNyGBXDaX2KMAH2B141DbPSX1XSkhjWF4qZ zEuLeLpmYltod7jqUiFQmZ9HJZgxcBLO4bo7j4ZqB/nPqydcGcqmk1fjmdgaDThtzPqu DnIrLZWo9VCQLWitQiqEYNj9T2XrsMWMPJ/Ucs8Q/Dsz4RSu1oUgaxV8hvEiA0F6u77H rOMzyBB1+MssmNdJlhpUOmdMqnNpVcPIVuwfP6jGLbgRLsvKiB7QTNO+WbnP1SKDEX/f 63bN33LQGLUMPSpLGL0vpmBdaRRo2jKJTdQACEe/yza+7Dby6Nz8yCyHSU2ulxC4i0Pa Amww== Received: by 10.236.190.6 with SMTP id d6mr26782712yhn.16.1340193772252; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-076-182-104-150.nc.res.rr.com. [76.182.104.150]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w61sm93139333yhi.5.2012.06.20.05.02.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:02:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@scorpio.seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3WHPn545Vtz2CG4F for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:02:48 -0400 From: Jerry To: FreeBSD Message-ID: <20120620080248.7f3cb6c9@scorpio> In-Reply-To: <20120620124729.7f50b781@gumby.homeunix.com> References: <4FE18D93.4060809@FreeBSD.org> <20120620124729.7f50b781@gumby.homeunix.com> Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlHT/a0k36F3uLEppa3TDxap6AvwEOeWSd+1bgQevtbOMQQNfuN2arqYnK3bSTlr7w4xFjZ Subject: Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/* X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: FreeBSD List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:02:53 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:47:29 +0100 RW articulated: > On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:45:07 +0100 > Matthew Seaman wrote: >=20 > > #!/bin/sh > > # > > # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. > >=20 > > # PROVIDE: precedence > > # REQUIRE: vboxheadless > > # BEFORE: samba > >=20 > > : > >=20 > > Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. >=20 > Why? None of the dummy scripts in the base system have a ":". =46rom "man rc" EXAMPLES The following is a minimal rc.d/ style script. Most scripts require l= it- tle more than the following. #!/bin/sh # # PROVIDE: foo # REQUIRE: bar_service_required_to_precede_foo . /etc/rc.subr name=3D"foo" rcvar=3D`set_rcvar` command=3D"/usr/local/bin/foo" load_rc_config $name run_rc_command "$1" You will notice the prominent use of ":". If you feel that is in error, please feel free to submit a PR against it. --=20 Jerry =E2=99=94 Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:03:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BFB6106570F for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:03:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B27738FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:03:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KC3RX7024418; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:03:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KC3Rt8024415; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:03:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:03:27 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Jakub Lach In-Reply-To: <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:03:27 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:03:28 -0000 > Really, this format of discussion is rather exception > than rule (from my experience). or rather - discussion is a rule :) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:05:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFAB2106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:05:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ulrich@pukruppa.de) Received: from pukruppa.de (pd95cabe3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.92.171.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45BDE8FC15 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:05:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pukruppa.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pukruppa.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KC7ggf012673 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:07:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ulrich@pukruppa.de) Message-ID: <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:07:42 +0200 From: Peter Ulrich Kruppa User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120618 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:05:51 -0000 On 20.06.2012 13:45, Jakub Lach wrote: > Really, this format of discussion is rather exception > than rule (from my experience). > > Nothing wrong with productive flaming for me, > but it's just not typical code of conduct in FreeBSD > mailing list at all. Actually I can't remember any flame-war about system compilers - this is the first one. But I believe it is a good proof, that clang is a serious alternative to gcc - else people would talk about "an interesting project" or something like that. Greetings Peter. > > -- > View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/Why-Clang-tp5715861p5720039.html > Sent from the freebsd-questions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:11:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4EE51065673 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:11:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from c.kworr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA588FC1F for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:11:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so7653025bkv.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:11:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=f5cBG5Gwu/BH5fBCRbGosXCmex5h8Xx3Ziu8MfrMrxU=; b=J3hUbfXtSA3CAmKmWSNpTBZpBEn6ZTH2DJFtMmfyAtS0lYpyhA0VOnR6x/aKF8hlEx W7D4krqVZZNUum31LkCjbw/SpoJSX4IkQixcsV0/+nI6oEQer0lj15kbjEzRZpEt8ZR+ EiffWiOX1XCKHS5Vt1YsEmGkTWS/WyMKhn2O1octDiIAIobydJB0FadmTkQg+4EJZ3XF T0asbdDRVvSocgqY2hhDN+jUs+s1OHIy+kYKOa8dZM15KklDrsVC1v9sQJ1sGLLhhd+p tbYGmkgqUmJ6oSxMlJMob38MIya+8EDDyWONr3uM2Ks9EiU2RwyIAJo6w8kL1p7myCx+ GpBA== Received: by 10.204.145.89 with SMTP id c25mr10178455bkv.5.1340194288335; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:11:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from green.tandem.local (utwig.xim.bz. [91.216.237.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m2sm27489970bkm.2.2012.06.20.05.11.26 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE1BDEC.1040705@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:11:24 +0300 From: Volodymyr Kostyrko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120605 Firefox/12.0 SeaMonkey/2.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <4FE19BFC.7030304@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Adam Vande More , Michel Talon , Fred Morcos , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:11:30 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> >> And why you think it's not better then gcc? > > because - as you already should know - test shows otherwise. Test show only that clang-compiled binaries are still subject for improvement. It doesn't show how strict and clear this binary is. > As well as FreeBSD running predictable with gcc anyway. You mileage may vary. I'm using clang-compiled world & ports on production servers since clang was added to the ports. And nothing bad happens to me. > Still theory and ideology. That what you do too. You are stating clang is less potent only by counting speed estimates. You leave aside things like standard compliance, ease of use and healthy ecosystem. Besides, NetBSD and OpenBSD has already selected and using pcc now. And they are fine with that one. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:16:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A0AE1065678 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:16:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58F208FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:16:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KCGiAT024488; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:16:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KCGion024485; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:16:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:16:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Volodymyr Kostyrko In-Reply-To: <4FE1BDEC.1040705@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <4FE19BFC.7030304@gmail.com> <4FE1BDEC.1040705@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:16:44 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Adam Vande More , Michel Talon , Fred Morcos , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:16:45 -0000 > speed estimates. there are a difference between speed estimate and actual speed - and i talk about the latter only. > > Besides, NetBSD and OpenBSD has already selected and using pcc now. And they > are fine with that one. their problem. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:16:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B63D41065673 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:16:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FCBA8FC14 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:16:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhgm50 with SMTP id m50so6587581yhg.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:16:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=I6rk88+d+NgCuevD9heMQmJlovZ6PuefnYvHkdCmdN8=; b=h/zFoj2os4QHLQiFOOY1MI5+Og6EXm+7YNOlG1TYln+4JAR287mjwSUZaOSa0/8ZvP 8DqxcFqqyjvdXbpLjNkc4Bx9vesgCCriOR/hIYO4RKahXGJEUYrkPzQBWdclazchIe3P tSniwLiAunRC8zLZuHFyTVCMPrHdX7oRWy1N0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=I6rk88+d+NgCuevD9heMQmJlovZ6PuefnYvHkdCmdN8=; b=jI4KjGAtLCxAQyvZNEMihVRNR/zaCdeGNkTX3BPglr1B/CO5lZVu2mvecqc0XE+nqc l9LKX/MbIYXy1EL/dVAs28jDIX0FPiqWiTKB8Lkv5C2zZxPIMrk8UW2SdVcR3UbgCb41 RCw1D8btR+d27ZMMCyGG566Hm8wGRDO1qYxGStrJcVOjm60Xy3LqI2YspIzeRltMpkib 6aFsMXxdqLAxdQ4xhBTLc+0OdYzssHIw2BzROhbMOEoNjBf7aqHHGMUcb54Cr3Sf7Vo5 wtpWibOcMBbfkZn0nl869TUKWvrTuy+1mY5EjxgOAK7iER+Pk7zUbz/msyB6/eRQLYn6 +VsA== Received: by 10.236.153.104 with SMTP id e68mr27122505yhk.36.1340194611975; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-076-182-104-150.nc.res.rr.com. [76.182.104.150]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x42sm93286057yhd.3.2012.06.20.05.16.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@scorpio.seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3WHQ5F0YDPz2CG4F for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:16:48 -0400 From: Jerry To: FreeBSD Message-ID: <20120620081648.6598fb59@scorpio> In-Reply-To: References: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <20120620073454.0a5f2f87@scorpio> Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlBugoAye4QLL0MEy+N6TmjM3ZPuwaeDT5PGdNSBiF07N+7Gi0gVk+Lbk40j3CNGhbZ0vZb Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: FreeBSD List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:16:53 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:48:15 +0200 (CEST) Wojciech Puchar articulated: > > A somewhat haphazardly search of the postings in this forum would > > seem to indicate that any post questioning the ethics or usefulness > > of FreeBSD as compared to other operating systems that elicit six > > or more > > strange but usefulness of FreeBSD wasn't questioned. The ethics of using "clang" most certainly were. Perhaps you missed the word "or" that I used to distinquish between the possible causes. Furthermore, the "usefulness" of using "clang" VS GCC were also voiced by at least on poster. He stated, correctly or not is not an issue here, that "clang" produces slower code VS GCC for math intensive operations. It was also pointed out that Linux is solidly in bed with GCC, at least at the present time. Therefore, the "other operating system" requirement has been fulfilled. I did not say, nor mean to convey that every condition had to be met in every post in every thread. It is more of a cumulative effect. Very easy to overlook unless each post is read in its entirety. -- Jerry â™” Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:17:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1277E1065688 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:17:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FD948FC12 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:17:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KCHl7C024496; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:17:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KCHls8024493; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:17:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:17:47 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Peter Ulrich Kruppa In-Reply-To: <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:17:47 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:17:48 -0000 >> Nothing wrong with productive flaming for me, >> but it's just not typical code of conduct in FreeBSD >> mailing list at all. > Actually I can't remember any flame-war about system compilers - this is the > first one. because such situation like now never happened - changing C compiler to much worse because of political reasons. > But I believe it is a good proof, that clang is a serious alternative to gcc it is only a proof that it was decided to put it as FreeBSD default compiler. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:25:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D3E210656B0 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:25:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from j.mckeown@ru.ac.za) Received: from mail.ru.ac.za (mail.ru.ac.za [IPv6:2001:4200:1010:0:250:56ff:fe8d:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A34EC8FC16 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:25:45 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ru.ac.za; s=ru-msa; h=X-Authenticated-User:Message-Id:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=dPvEyDlkBkeoFSvYzBVfyyPE3A9fzQM20J4QRH7Ueoc=; b=k3J3vu5V4RRJPZ+5MD8BC/igYxf+PAj/tzUCHIQTXP/YAuKd54YZX3vzecBxU2g5qokCLI/K2bUwdvnq2Ioe9Vnr7AaRXTJCNJHWmmg5oORtQt+wfnCDG+gQDknPUuF1; Received: from vorkosigan.ru.ac.za ([2001:4200:1010:1058:219:d1ff:fe9f:a932]:64767) by mail.ru.ac.za with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ShJyg-0006sk-R0 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:25:42 +0200 From: Jonathan McKeown Organization: Rhodes University To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:25:42 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> X-Face: $@VrUx^RHy/}yu]jKf/<4T%/d|F+$j-Ol2"2J$q+%OK1]&/G_S9(=?utf-8?q?HkaQ*=60!=3FYOK=3FY!=27M=60C=0A=09aP=5C9nVPF8Q=7DCilHH8l=3B=7E!4?= =?utf-8?q?2HK6=273lg4J=7Daz?=@1Dqqh:J]M^"YPn*2IWrZON$1+G?oX3@ =?utf-8?q?k=230=0A=0954XDRg=3DYn=5FF-etwot4U=24b?=dTS{i X-Virus-Scanned: mail.ru.ac.za (2001:4200:1010:0:250:56ff:fe8d:5) X-Authenticated-User: s0900137 from vorkosigan.ru.ac.za (2001:4200:1010:1058:219:d1ff:fe9f:a932) using auth_plaintext Subject: Flaming mailing lists (was Re: Why Clang) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:25:46 -0000 On Wednesday 20 June 2012 12:59:51 Stephen Cook wrote: > On 6/19/2012 4:06 PM, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: [snip childish invective] > I'm a relative newcomer. Are the FreeBSD mailing lists always this > flame-y? I realize that this particular post might be trolling / satire No, they aren't. And I notice that whoever is primarily responsible for it isn't even prepared to sign his own name to his tirades - he (or she) is using anonymous remailers. (Irritatingly this makes him difficult to killfile - it turns out there's at least one recent legitimate post that's been sent through a similar remailer so I can't just toss them all away). Jonathan From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:30:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAE401065672 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:30:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 558AA8FC25 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:30:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eabm6 with SMTP id m6so2773340eab.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:30:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=25YUVQ7Yx/vHIpeoAKS5XUQj0WHb56pK1IexPzfvvZE=; b=At5WvZ563LaEJwvxbF4nGy3JiUTjCrzoG3vehL/n5vB+WT4UfTSbyLlYhCWLI8LquG +3sYSxw4amDXM99cBEHPQYQLodbpDL3p2E4BMXsAArmp8YZ8wDbBvB5/5OKnviQWXxfy 4EziZR9G3dSn4HywrEUyNYjaStubpboiv/+QGK3W62aO2ptIhufx4Nm//buZOcZuFQ/M bdklIOJr2DhTzpnLVKnSValQZL0CpRVG0pbvvZ26XcgXeQV0sh782bSQkqxyhGGRwf25 1ET2ol1Iff3cuEpINvLSrQqzlBHz41B5zPIJgVP7xpzAH1/kHoK+H0H8it9k2PXGVHpg k9Fg== Received: by 10.14.127.132 with SMTP id d4mr5030980eei.116.1340195399996; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfleuriot-at-hi-media.com ([83.167.62.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u16sm89916923eeb.16.2012.06.20.05.29.58 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:29:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE1C244.3030400@my.gd> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:29:56 +0200 From: Damien Fleuriot User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FE18D93.4060809@FreeBSD.org> <4FE1935C.60902@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FE1935C.60902@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmqs+FzM/S4PtUCnZ0MG8+fHLmY0chBoOaG8//ictwU6VTw6EGZioUk8GiOEyw0KHckthay Subject: Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/* X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:30:01 -0000 On 6/20/12 11:09 AM, Matthew Seaman wrote: > On 20/06/2012 09:51, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> >>> Create a new file in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/precedence with the following >>> contents: >>> >>> #!/bin/sh >>> # >>> # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. >>> >>> # PROVIDE: precedence >>> # REQUIRE: vboxheadless >>> # BEFORE: samba >>> >>> : >>> >>> Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. >>> >> thank you for help. I will test it when being on place and could reboot. >> >> But still - do you know why it is necessary? >> >> cannot i just add BEFORE: samba in vboxheadless? >> > > Yes, that should work too. However any time you update vboxheadless > you'll have to remember to add that modification back to the rc script. > Using a separate file stops that being a problem. > > If you want to test that your changes are having the desired effect > without having to reboot: > > # rcorder /etc/rc.d/* /usr/local/etc/rc.d/* > > which will print out the order all the rc-scripts would be run. (It > includes all the scripts, not just the ones enabled in /etc/rc.conf, but > that shouldn't matter.) > > Cheers, > > Matthew > A very helpful post, adding to favorites. Might that, possibly, warrant a handbook entry ? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:32:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0A0B1065673 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:32:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fred.morcos@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 997C78FC26 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:32:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so1068770obb.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:32:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=syw61GVvaKeldpv4cOk57wLUf2Ro+AV8kXh39KAbLp8=; b=a91/Y8Q4gxYVqoRS4bjbPfDy8tnvUBVrieNE+v0k4RoIKBnRcQkkXLYiPf0zXDNVfH EonT0I/DsmbeHlqdahncFYUkTrT70SuRUIEcGt1NhaE4qg/stAf2yWchaXMiB2YK7bng j6lF25a6/2F0gc4hM4ziQ3TzKNvWjQyWzbkAF3Ch1SMY5ZABd0b4AvCf9aJs0t1DTxPz GRFQnYqngRMHQNV1vK1ui496SQ6SDYUsvgUbb1JwNPRAiLVO2jpV03j/Qis07OhsMTmK Sp7Ydvsan6e8ImMM1c0gHVvfmUqQOaTJeMUQjorTTY0rGxyKwB4JNxVEgOG34wyWYrQT EAGw== Received: by 10.182.17.3 with SMTP id k3mr23216681obd.73.1340195564969; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:32:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.241.7 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:32:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Morcos Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:32:24 +0200 Message-ID: To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:32:45 -0000 Hello all, I am new to FreeBSD, coming from a GNU/Linux background (most comfortable with Archlinux). I compiled a series of questions I would like to ask in different areas and categories. Should I send them all in a single email message or should I split them by subject/topic into different emails? The advantage of the former is that I will be able to easily show relations between the different topics and questions (put them into context) as well as articulate the setup I would like to reach. The advantage of the latter is that it is cleaner and simpler to answer one question by one. Also, I have done a bit of poking around to answer each of my own questions, obviously with no luck, so I do not mind RTFM-ing - I would actually prefer it, please feel free to link me to an article, tutorial, man page or handbook that already answers one or more question(s). Cheers, Fred From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:36:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10B9B106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:36:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fred.morcos@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF5258FC14 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:36:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so6444381ghb.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:36:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=vPAQs/LwD/X8rD/F7asCfT1Ba1nLkbubqRvWri88EhE=; b=aefdOHXmwB4nhw4cKXg86SVxJFsrEK1wq7VjiTYtuLvmkt3fyeU5IocyLAn7v5WSN4 b75h1tAOctooy/Y4o49dVfXbGl79C3T0t2Dzx0cKMNMtb983MxGxfk+v409OZP717Boj x5TMmvBE1vfqPBULAlfGsNo4uneyaOFjOy3OY+0pja1hSr5QtsWwwA/g2NG6xdCKvJIA L4uBWM1A9uHF8MphVBN7OEp3Rsj7Xm7O5yr19ShzJlVjB5bVeU08+rxa1alPsrYfTA6X euL3malJY0hoDpj1ruOuPtII/oBmuR2zL+Jb/O5RfzwoP+6DLo6ED3RL5+h17v38+RMo YtHg== Received: by 10.60.13.134 with SMTP id h6mr23421343oec.11.1340195805323; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:36:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.241.7 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:36:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201206201425.42524.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> References: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <201206201425.42524.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> From: Fred Morcos Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:36:25 +0200 Message-ID: To: Jonathan McKeown Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Flaming mailing lists (was Re: Why Clang) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:36:47 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Jonathan McKeown wrote: > On Wednesday 20 June 2012 12:59:51 Stephen Cook wrote: >> On 6/19/2012 4:06 PM, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: > > [snip childish invective] > >> I'm a relative newcomer. Are the FreeBSD mailing lists always this >> flame-y? I realize that this particular post might be trolling / satire > > No, they aren't. And I notice that whoever is primarily responsible for it > isn't even prepared to sign his own name to his tirades - he (or she) is > using anonymous remailers. (Irritatingly this makes him difficult to > killfile - it turns out there's at least one recent legitimate post that's > been sent through a similar remailer so I can't just toss them all away). > > Jonathan > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" The anonymous remailer's administrator can be contacted and made aware of the "abusive" email sent through it. To quote an automated message from the remailer: This message is being sent to you automatically in response to an email that you sent to . If you did not send such an email, please ignore this message. This remailer is a free service that allows individuals including crime victims, domestic violence victims, persons in recovery, and others, such as those living under oppressive regimes, to communicate confidentially in a manner that ensures their privacy under even the most adverse conditions. To obtain information on how you can use this service, please send an email with subject "remailer-help" to . Should you have received an unwelcome message through this service or to report problems with this service, please contact the Administrator at . Thank you for your interest in secure and private communications, -- The "Austria Remailer" Administrator From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:38:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF6831065686 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:38:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EEE88FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:38:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so2794287eek.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:38:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=kYShbYybwGAuIvcIknL0Ws5jdrBgF7VNAltyZAHVHJQ=; b=Jl5adJ1tENfTlGRyjkmdiPb+zDLMbl/APq+sX+dYgJFx25rFCZW2qM2PgfN/zGrCGe Aceb2t73M0P+MELPIkUveRqYuR/AgHQwVnh9QVHQd9jLaBpOXOI+ax6t0uhwIGQv745y D4uzhPMdfFo5ztvcvd/aBA66ghaE28r9GecmrhtxF0gHiACMuu+dTCgnkWz5jZ09LmPf PwFxiYPEejPE9Ez87XpUKt7WDpgyFfuUwU4Kiri/f5vy+DChw6UbboCHeWz2tsma6XTW SmT7MghHdYkE1SLo7zIN/epIm7mfH42dstC+V/Mrvkm9aHNRernahPQRjDyITr8YCtZ0 VnLA== Received: by 10.14.127.132 with SMTP id d4mr5036147eei.116.1340195887362; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfleuriot-at-hi-media.com ([83.167.62.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e45sm90046087eeb.6.2012.06.20.05.38.06 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE1C42D.5020504@my.gd> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:38:05 +0200 From: Damien Fleuriot User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn7AvY69Ay1onop4CEQM3yjxY3ScaWrm/ZSw8A02dt57HRjDv1eF7KR/ZEJTZATNgOraFDZ Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:38:09 -0000 On 6/20/12 2:32 PM, Fred Morcos wrote: > Hello all, > > I am new to FreeBSD, coming from a GNU/Linux background (most > comfortable with Archlinux). I compiled a series of questions I would > like to ask in different areas and categories. Should I send them all > in a single email message or should I split them by subject/topic into > different emails? > > The advantage of the former is that I will be able to easily show > relations between the different topics and questions (put them into > context) as well as articulate the setup I would like to reach. The > advantage of the latter is that it is cleaner and simpler to answer > one question by one. > > Also, I have done a bit of poking around to answer each of my own > questions, obviously with no luck, so I do not mind RTFM-ing - I would > actually prefer it, please feel free to link me to an article, > tutorial, man page or handbook that already answers one or more > question(s). > > Cheers, > Fred Just toss them in a single mail to be honest, that'll help get the bigger picture. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:39:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 876921065695 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:39:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 910048FC1D for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:39:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.187.76.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KCdWEr021855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:39:32 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q5KCdWEr021855 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infracaninophile.co.uk; s=201001-infracaninophile; t=1340195972; bh=B+5mQMu7X/RV0ZTkXJUYzZkfhM5CGnYIepaJKrKv4M8=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Message-ID:Mime-Version; b=O3K0ct8DD4BJzvV1r1y/4qkbKJPNEMEMzgVFTiqroESq8qlWpzJHV8LDfFoX6mZCM SkFdZ/goWq/9Br7j/j/3wWuSDNPoedQh/SVvJn44Gi4sMZyRR/gYIDBn6a1YXMJupD QY14pkiMk78JpGSW67UJ8rQuQIDIMhh49T7yTUas= Message-ID: <4FE1C484.7040204@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:39:32 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: RW References: <4FE18D93.4060809@FreeBSD.org> <20120620124729.7f50b781@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20120620124729.7f50b781@gumby.homeunix.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=60AE908C Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig6A906ED0E043D1C3D516CB94" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.5 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_ALL,DKIM_SIGNED,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=no version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/* X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:39:48 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig6A906ED0E043D1C3D516CB94 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 20/06/2012 12:47, RW wrote: > On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:45:07 +0100 > Matthew Seaman wrote: >=20 >> #!/bin/sh >> # >> # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. >> >> # PROVIDE: precedence >> # REQUIRE: vboxheadless >> # BEFORE: samba >> >> : >> >> Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. >=20 > Why? None of the dummy scripts in the base system have a ":". It seems I was mistaken. As far as rcorder goes, an empty script is just as good as a single null command: % cat precedence #!/bin/sh # # Persuade postgresql to start before spamassassin. # PROVIDE: precedence # REQUIRE: postgresql # BEFORE: spamd % rcorder /etc/rc.d/* /usr/local/etc/rc.d/* | grep -E 'postgresql|precedence|sa-spamd' /usr/local/etc/rc.d/postgresql /usr/local/etc/rc.d/precedence /usr/local/etc/rc.d/sa-spamd Hey -- I saved a whole two bytes. Woohoo! Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate JID: matthew@infracaninophile.co.uk Kent, CT11 9PW --------------enig6A906ED0E043D1C3D516CB94 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/hxIQACgkQ8Mjk52CukIzoGQCbB7v3snboT1SU40oMiVm63lW9 KhgAnji7iOrSLmTBjPKHOXA0b4qqz+K/ =f1Va -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig6A906ED0E043D1C3D516CB94-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 12:46:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 121851065688 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:46:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mgamsjager@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF6D58FC1C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:46:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcbfy7 with SMTP id fy7so4868690vcb.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:46:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:cc :content-type; bh=bOfIv3Tcp/fCLmBrtHQDj430l5MvouJzCfWMAV2iHq0=; b=GsA75nx4NQzaXax9i9jLrTPyYo0fwVKCb8HaASh4ABgNJoCxw63/c6ILZdlR+/SOgQ 3VO05ysrQYiG7AvV78T9GL8NlgRsF6a2MXbgG7NSUrSdKSOh2PSnQfbYVOBS9dll0Rgd UrW9vQBvLI91NND0Z6AbPHIBldXiJKwNKPxMOnO4fRsAFqzxBPBvs1urZagYPllh1kzf 7/NLdbYA4CldgGZQqm9ShqnczTMDIDJn27Ob1Kt8m2icJmVdGJqGA+Ikcy2GP/eCSWVe fWtUlyoDF4I13X5jB1mTWS5fzs/tnCttfJxCg7oco5Pm6rJYOSZTEGQSgx9ttlRm9vsb yHNQ== Received: by 10.220.8.17 with SMTP id f17mr11582740vcf.11.1340196370102; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:46:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.172.199 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 05:45:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> From: Matthias Gamsjager Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:45:38 +0200 Message-ID: Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:46:11 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Wojciech Puchar < wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote: > Nothing wrong with productive flaming for me, >>> but it's just not typical code of conduct in FreeBSD >>> mailing list at all. >>> >> Actually I can't remember any flame-war about system compilers - this is >> the first one. >> > > because such situation like now never happened - changing C compiler to > much worse because of political reasons. > > > But I believe it is a good proof, that clang is a serious alternative to >> gcc >> > it is only a proof that it was decided to put it as FreeBSD default > compiler. > > Everything is said, explained and discusse why this decision is made.. So what do you want? that someone says" Yes you are right clang is shit?". If you like it or not: Clang will stay but leaves the choice which compiler you use up to you. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 13:02:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BAC41065674 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:02:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B79418FC14 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:02:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so2812691eek.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:02:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=eB7IQGcxhtQ0pMjiK++c/AmlsjGTYspsm0ckpdw8YwM=; b=eSHE/oDbrAgUrHksE4Y3uEkcwQYu/7eUHw1HqpLj0O+2Fo1u5Lyt15HheSmHRdnZDN G2cd2cwJIiOZaXrSB5R0sSetX1byScSy27sH/+/fctFmeAGYEOPCs0IQrOPcU9a3OlCB vyW3ViGdk7cDt2q8PYJ7hjWBXml1YjE1c9b42RR3fED6PQ//Q5HKzlrfF4qazbhIFzx/ r4NKWNNCwEATLMSB+Tgn59I8F66jC5/TgZzkZYxkhVMddO+9io6doxhZZ2SCNaq3s8+R hmNruABLWTEh3CArQ30oZ6zYd+Odbbp9tqOZZkI8QbqRyfIEEmY5Z63KqYSd1bASn6xa DOlA== Received: by 10.14.119.73 with SMTP id m49mr4591639eeh.187.1340197363773; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:02:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com (87-194-105-247.bethere.co.uk. [87.194.105.247]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v16sm88754466eem.17.2012.06.20.06.02.41 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:02:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:02:40 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620140240.6b6f660a@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20120620080248.7f3cb6c9@scorpio> References: <4FE18D93.4060809@FreeBSD.org> <20120620124729.7f50b781@gumby.homeunix.com> <20120620080248.7f3cb6c9@scorpio> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/* X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:02:45 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:02:48 -0400 Jerry wrote: > On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:47:29 +0100 > RW articulated: > > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:45:07 +0100 > > Matthew Seaman wrote: > > > > > #!/bin/sh > > > # > > > # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. > > > > > > # PROVIDE: precedence > > > # REQUIRE: vboxheadless > > > # BEFORE: samba > > > > > > : > > > > > > Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. > > > > Why? None of the dummy scripts in the base system have a ":". > > From "man rc" > > EXAMPLES > The following is a minimal rc.d/ style script. Most scripts > require lit- tle more than the following. > > #!/bin/sh > # > > # PROVIDE: foo > # REQUIRE: bar_service_required_to_precede_foo > > . /etc/rc.subr > > name="foo" > rcvar=`set_rcvar` > command="/usr/local/bin/foo" > > load_rc_config $name > run_rc_command "$1" > > You will notice the prominent use of ":". We were talking about the null command colon at the bottom of the script, not the colons in comments at the top. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 13:14:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0CB1065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:14:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D23298FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:14:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-40-10.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.40.10]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F333D0FA; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:14:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q5KDEqHZ002016; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:14:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:14:51 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Chad Perrin Message-Id: <20120620151451.94b1cb9d.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20120620032824.GD15821@hemlock.hydra> References: <20120620032824.GD15821@hemlock.hydra> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Attaching a monitor via vga X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:14:54 -0000 Allow me to mention an additional approach (but I think using xrandr is fine - it sometimes works where "bare X" fails). Depending on the options of the GPU in your laptop, you can use /etc/rc.conf to make specific settings depending on what "connector" (internal dotmatrix display, external VGA, be it CRT or LCD) you use. For X to find out resolution and screen size properly, in Section "Monitor" you can use Option "Preferredmode" "NNNNxNNNN" and DisplaySize MMM MMM (where MMM is to be given in millimeters) to "hardcode" the parameters of the screen. Modern screens should provide them by theirselves (especially all LCDs should do that), but it can be helpful to define them in a "mixed mode setting" as what an external monitor on a laptop can be considered. If DPI calculation doesn't work as intended (results in too small or too big text for example), you can add Option "DPI" "DD x DD" to Section "Device" where you define your driver. Use values of between 70 and 120. For dotmatrix displays, you can easily calculate the correct value (horizontal size in pixels divided by width in inch; vertical similarly) in case it isn't obtained automatically. The correct value should also be found in the documentation of the screen. Note that flatpanels only have one fixed amount of pixels and therefore also one fixed DPI resolution, whereas CRTs are more versatile. A last option would be to check out TwinView if it's supported by your GPU. Settings like Option "ConnectedMonitor" "CRT, CRT" can be used to tell X what monitors to connect on startup and how to initialize them. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 13:21:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C948106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:21:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5538FC14 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:21:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KDLXod057069; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:21:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KDLX3q057066; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:21:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:21:33 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Stephen Cook In-Reply-To: <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:21:33 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: List flames (was Re: Why Clang) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:21:34 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012, Stephen Cook wrote: > I'm a relative newcomer. Are the FreeBSD mailing lists always this flame-y? I > realize that this particular post might be trolling / satire, but others in > the thread (and other unrelated threads recently) are a FAR CRY from the > technical support and discussion I expected. I thought I'd see an occasional > RTFM, maybe a random "WinBlows" here and there... but this type of thing just > diminished everyone involved. No, this is unusual. But also remember that most of these lists are not just unmoderated but open to posting without subscription. Then it becomes kind of amazing at how little flaming and trolling there is. That's not an accident, the admins work hard to limit abuse. As an alternate, consider the forums (http://forums.freebsd.org/), which are moderated. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 13:22:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBEB5106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:22:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dg@pki2.com) Received: from btw.pki2.com (btw.pki2.com [IPv6:2001:470:a:6fd::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C4C8FC23 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:22:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by btw.pki2.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KDM6Px086071; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:22:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg@pki2.com) From: Dennis Glatting To: Lynn Steven Killingsworth In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:22:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1340198526.18260.3.camel@btw.pki2.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-yoursite-MailScanner-Information: Dennis Glatting X-yoursite-MailScanner-ID: q5KDM6Px086071 X-yoursite-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: dg@pki2.com Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Need latest xorg X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:22:15 -0000 On Wed, 2012-06-20 at 08:02 -0400, Lynn Steven Killingsworth wrote: > Hi FreeBSD - > > I have an AMD HD 7950 video card so I am trying to install the latest > FreeBSD xorg available (7.5.2) for an updated driver. > Please let me know how well this (or doesn't) works. I have been looking at the 7970 series to screw around with CUDA but also as a multi-monitor card. > When I start make the install immediately stops at MesaLib-7.6.1.tar.gz. > I can restart it on a primary using the location given then after a short > time the install stops at /x11/9menu (/9menu-1.8.shar.gz) I can also > attempt to restart this on a couple of servers but after a trip around the > world my install still stops at /x11/9menu > > I live in Maine (USA) so I pick the MIT primary ftp5 since I inadvertly > determined it was MIT. ftp1 also sends me on a trip around the world with > the same result. > > If I can install xorg-7.5.2 I am hoping then that the install of > kde4-4.8.4 will complete on this new install of FreeBSD 9.0 > > Does anyone else have a favorite ftp that cooperates? (And I notice the > location in the server is different from the primaries on other servers?) > > Steve > > > -- Dennis Glatting From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 13:27:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53A33106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:27:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F238FC14 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:27:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KDRXLt057117; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:27:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KDRXei057114; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:27:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:27:33 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Chad Perrin In-Reply-To: <20120620032824.GD15821@hemlock.hydra> Message-ID: References: <20120620032824.GD15821@hemlock.hydra> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:27:34 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Attaching a monitor via vga X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:27:37 -0000 On Tue, 19 Jun 2012, Chad Perrin wrote: > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 08:52:58PM -0400, David Tilbrook wrote: >> I have a thinkpad t61p running freebsd9.0. The window size is 1680x1050 >> -- a reasonable size -- but the screen itself is 38cm. (15") which is >> irritatingly >> small for my old eyes. >> >> So I want to attach an external monitor via a vga cable, which I have been >> doing with my RedHat thinkpad A31P for years. >> >> I tried attaching Asus VE228H (1920x1080) but it would display >> only part of the window (the top-left corner). I get a similar behaviour >> with a Samsung SyncMaster. >> >> When I tried to xinit with the monitor attached, it displays an even smaller >> part of the screen. (On my previous thinkpad with a Samsung, to get a >> reasonable full window I had to unplug the vga, start xinit, and then plug >> in the vga, but I can live with that.) >> >> My questions: >> >> 1) What can I do to display the whole window on an external monitor? >> 2) Is there a monitor out there that would better support such use? >> 3) Would a Samsung T220HD 22" which claims to support 1680x1050 >> work, and is there someone in Toronto who sells it and would let >> me test it? (Craigs list doesn't qualify). > > You probably want to look into using the xrandr command to configure > output for connected monitors. Try this first: > > xrandr --auto > > If that does not work, you may have to do something more sophisticated. > For instance, I have a shell script that looks like this for when I > connect my laptop to an external monitor: > > #!/bin/sh > xrandr --auto > xrandr --output LVDS1 --off > xrandr --newmode "1680x1050_60.00" 146.25 1680 1784 1960 2240 1050 1053 1059 1089 -hsync +vsync > xrandr --addmode VGA1 1680x1050_60.00 > xrandr --output VGA1 --mode 1680x1050_60.00 > xli -onroot -border black -center /path/to/enso_16x9.png Adding a new mode should not be needed for most monitors. I do this to set up the external video: xrandr --output VGA --above LVDS That's to span a single desktop over both monitors. Some desktop environments have their own ideas about which monitors are attached and what part of the desktop is shown, and that must be changed in the DE's settings. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 13:30:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 494E31065690 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:30:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E09E28FC23 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:30:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KDUsA4057144; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:30:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KDUs5U057141; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:30:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:30:54 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: David Tilbrook In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:30:54 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: where's ppmtoxpm X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:30:55 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012, David Tilbrook wrote: > I have searched for ppmtoxpm in ports and in FreeBSD Search Services to > no avail. > > ppmtoxpm converts a portable pixmap into an X11 pixmap. > > Is there a freebsd equivalent or alternative? In the ports, graphics/netpbm. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 13:37:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DA251065677 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:37:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2087C8FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:37:00 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=qmrcJi0EsqGq5s8tOSqS1lOygCGSZD1lA9ulGLtp6Tg=; b=Xi+e0KcmtqY7rlmtq6p2Gv39vGMNy0/KLj3WnyDm9caBYQsh5eJyqkorCCj5C1kb1UZoxrcrdQjiFnN4KTbBuRoeDVRGrd236KuXuaIy6HkIme3bZWTJogFSD6e+Wida; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ShL5c-0000gc-BM for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:36:59 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340199410-94480-94479/5/15; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:36:50 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:36:50 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:37:00 -0000 Wojciech, Why not make FreeBSD better for everyone by cooperating with the CLANG project? 1. Find simple programs with severe performance issues 2. Report to the CLANG developers 3. They fix, tweak, and tune the compiler 4. FreeBSD imports latest release 5. Everybody wins From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 13:48:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B9F1065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:48:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F04078FC1B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:48:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5DCBD138.dip.t-dialin.net [93.203.209.56]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5KDmSjL022057; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:48:29 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5KDmFnV096326; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:48:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5KDm2u3045621; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:48:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201206201348.q5KDm2u3045621@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:22:39 +0200." <20120619232239.925d0aa4.freebsd@edvax.de> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:48:02 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:48:32 -0000 Polytropon wrote: > I assume it's just an aspect of "still being too young" in > regards of missing the difference between freedom and > anarchy: the right to extend one's freedom is limited > as soon as it limits the freedom of others. Maybe another > aspect is the lack of discussion culture and the proper > use of means of language. You often find such behaviour > among school children of the lower grades. Using words > without knowing their meaning is very typical for people > in puberty. :-) Yes. Questions@ has some un- self- disciplined kids/ drunks/ trolls, who degrade this list's signal to noise ratio. They could be reduced by a combo. of eg: - forcible unsub, & black list, - block of anon. remailer domains - making this list "subscribtion required before posting". (which would make it harder for newbies fresh to FreeBSD, but we need some solution) I suggest others too should complain to appending offenders bad postings, & let postmaster decide action. The only other option I can think of is to personaly extend my procmail filter on my own questions@ incoming stream, to delete all postings from listed individuals. Many others could do similar, but massive inefficiency, & newbies couldn't, & the noise on the raw unfiltered list & in web achives would damage FreeBSD. Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 14:34:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF571106568F for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:34:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6174E8FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:34:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5KEYDFW022713; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:34:14 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:34:12 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206202134.12220.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: Fred Morcos Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:34:15 -0000 Hi, On Wednesday 20 June 2012 19:32:24 Fred Morcos wrote: > > I am new to FreeBSD, coming from a GNU/Linux background (most > comfortable with Archlinux). I compiled a series of questions I would > like to ask in different areas and categories. Should I send them all > in a single email message or should I split them by subject/topic into > different emails? whatever you will be doing, some will say that it is wrong. > > The advantage of the former is that I will be able to easily show > relations between the different topics and questions (put them into > context) as well as articulate the setup I would like to reach. The > advantage of the latter is that it is cleaner and simpler to answer > one question by one. > > Also, I have done a bit of poking around to answer each of my own > questions, obviously with no luck, so I do not mind RTFM-ing - I would > actually prefer it, please feel free to link me to an article, > tutorial, man page or handbook that already answers one or more > question(s). I think that it is the best to ask. If people get disturbed by your questions, they should ignore it. The majority will be keen to help. You have choosen the general list. In case you cannot get an answer to a specific question, you can still post the same question later on the specific mailing list. Just be practical. Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 14:37:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9C111065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:37:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BA258FC1D for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:37:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KEbW3q001483; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:37:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KEbWlM001480; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:37:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:37:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: "Julian H. Stacey" In-Reply-To: <201206201348.q5KDm2u3045621@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: References: <201206201348.q5KDm2u3045621@fire.js.berklix.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:37:32 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:37:39 -0000 > > They could be reduced by a combo. of eg: > - forcible unsub, & black list, > - block of anon. remailer domains > - making this list "subscribtion required before posting". > (which would make it harder for newbies fresh to > FreeBSD, but we need some solution) > > I suggest others too should complain to > appending offenders bad postings, & let postmaster decide action. > > The only other option I can think of is to personaly extend my > procmail filter on my own questions@ incoming stream, to delete all > postings from listed individuals. > Many others could do similar, but massive inefficiency, & > newbies couldn't, & the noise on the raw unfiltered list & > in web achives would damage FreeBSD. > while subscription is good idea, as well as your personal blacklist, your other proposition would require strict political compatibility with those who would decide about who cannot post. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 14:38:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B90841065686 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:38:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linnemannr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DEE8FC17 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:38:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so10754669dad.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:38:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=lbkiiJcqKwGWKABNI7eVqKT1LSZhWZvpiSU5hwdaGx4=; b=xR/GUYfPhkBfGxiYxLIRto3EgiDjdvgxWaNbadKo+VBGb9ZZC3PNpcXtiS2tzskkdc VPQ2Nq3sPK+xds7FzbNtg7xkW4MQ9fk+k/i7AfVHtddRbhZwE8b5Rf5WYwTPHH7GZrsM eEaR/ZtLlNAQzBw1S7sfbOj+OmWgHz6aH3jniOqlfwbHd0P3qblNFG8r+POtvY3Fbdpm 9U2S5LNNWQcWlKf6eiUD018sNN6iHRmV7nsnIhXB4UcdxxUi8kWsDw2vWFpLlKLCFbT9 H9K+sYmXktT5SAGLyBxE2UKCNPCSSkVf0RISzSNUy9I77sTh3QceBC1zSW6/8kdxdt9W 5HUg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.217.3 with SMTP id ou3mr77752026pbc.117.1340203083391; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Sender: linnemannr@gmail.com Received: by 10.68.7.9 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:38:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:38:03 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: MUK2Eh21H1y9ef121z5NoSTEqVA Message-ID: From: Reid Linnemann To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Peter Ulrich Kruppa , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:38:09 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:17 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> Nothing wrong with productive flaming for me, >>> but it's just not typical code of conduct in FreeBSD >>> mailing list at all. >> >> Actually I can't remember any flame-war about system compilers - this is >> the first one. > > > because such situation like now never happened - changing C compiler to much > worse because of political reasons. > I think you misspelled "licensing and sponsorship". It's a fairly indisputable fact that without sponsoring users FreeBSD cannot move forward, and those sponsoring users do not get a warm fuzzy from the base system being built with a) An unmaintained GPLv2 licensed gcc or b) A maintained and current GPLv3 gcc with GPLv3 licensed libc. So between the options of 1) continuing to use an out of date compiler 2) alienating sponsors and losing their financial and developer support and 3) switching to a BSD licensed compiler/libc ... it's fairly obvious to me that options 1) and 2) lead to irrelevance and death of the project. clang being better than or on par with gcc in every conceivable category right this instant is far less important than continued existence and relevancy to sponsoring users, IMO. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 14:38:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15B741065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:38:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CC358FC1D for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:38:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KEcRxN001492; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:38:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KEcQ4w001489; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:38:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:38:26 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Fred Morcos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:38:27 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:38:31 -0000 > > I am new to FreeBSD, coming from a GNU/Linux background (most > comfortable with Archlinux). I compiled a series of questions I would > like to ask in different areas and categories. Should I send them all > in a single email message or should I split them by subject/topic into > different emails? split. or you will end with enormous messy thread. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 14:42:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21A9B106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:42:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BAAE8FC16 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:42:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KEgZoQ001525; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:42:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KEgYei001522; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:42:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:42:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Matthias Gamsjager In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:42:35 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:42:39 -0000 >> it is only a proof that it was decided to put it as FreeBSD default >> compiler. >> >> > Everything is said, explained and discusse why this decision is made.. So Explanation about "the decision was already made" isn't explanation. but i don't require any explanation. actually i don't require anything. > what do you want? that someone says" Yes you are right clang is shit?". No i don't like words but actions. and i am feared because once such projects like FreeBSD will start to decide about major things this way, it's beginning of end. Politics won over performance and quality. sad. >From my side - end of topic From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 14:43:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81757106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:43:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3EE38FC1C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:43:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KEhERN001533; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:43:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KEhEEL001530; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:43:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:43:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Felder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:43:14 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:43:21 -0000 > Why not make FreeBSD better for everyone by cooperating with the CLANG > project? because we already have great compiler - GCC. In spite of using GPL licence. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 14:44:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43D9010656E2 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:44:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A629C8FC1B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:44:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KEio8J001558; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:44:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KEioYk001555; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:44:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:44:50 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Reid Linnemann In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:44:50 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Peter Ulrich Kruppa , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:44:54 -0000 > licensed gcc or b) A maintained and current GPLv3 gcc with GPLv3 > licensed libc. FreeBSD doesn't use GNU libc. am i missing something? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 14:47:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED3D11065672 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:47:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01EB8FC19 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:47:39 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Cc:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=1n8mLWqgUo/NGQuyjmfBxrybAiYWc9/BtvwGBkToHOw=; b=IylCZTociqZJjcUME3icg4wj+WDQaW3rKvA6v9kPazwvZ3bE/6ojd3t9vdXu8rL7NIIBAg6RrmD//8Q5wIFA1ZhJzn5lYu1ZHWJjjVspbltsTuIhLqjpQQc5jyKeN/zU; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ShMBy-0003wM-8l; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:47:39 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340203648-94480-94479/5/16; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:47:28 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:47:27 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:47:40 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:43:14 -0500, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> Why not make FreeBSD better for everyone by cooperating with the CLANG >> project? > > because we already have great compiler - GCC. In spite of using GPL > licence. GCC performs well, but it is a very messy undocumented codebase which makes maintaining it a nightmare. Just ask Google -- you'll find many others saying the same thing. It would take MORE work to get FreeBSD devs up to speed on the GCC codebase to add the features we want than it is to cooperate with the CLANG community and help them make their compiler better than GCC in every test case. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 14:50:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3279B106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:50:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2E038FC12 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:50:02 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=vt8TLyf+Ca8KsJKsL3OmXQiPUQMzQZ1FXckWBzS3rHo=; b=R/TaHMU1iwVr92kBZrdPpTy7xSpdcZuyijXJDWg942pjexuuHNALLRdgFpjI77yQt7OFrOaswmT/fooJpJzJgAY+MQ/Xe2aDUhaQYNOHknqAyvhGY0W5mPs0cn81N4Ub; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ShMEF-0003wM-0L; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:50:00 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340203794-94480-94479/5/17; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:49:54 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:49:54 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:50:03 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:42:34 -0500, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > Politics won over performance and quality. sad. Performing compiler does not mean quality codebase. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 15:56:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 537261065688 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:56:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivares14031@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04A738FC17 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:55:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnm2 with SMTP id m2so6734555ggn.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:55:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=JDGwxSwXaaBR8fcbVw2+t2IslyQ8DkGJ5/QU0FYYCaU=; b=IqVks3MzTLR9ulzdniPHYhxZvMFMSxYzGkyTmjb3uBiO0aT7sgRBaVZlFDiPQL8E1G 3coCJbRrVEHRw6EqcRZSLj7/mUxCpbmVO6zkcSqhJJbC9qa6rNFhz0nCqzAPLmzSS0JV ryW58FkKtoImOyATiSo9PrnzK+ZLWaHCnEqrSZ8qzzT3Jy7YWN1woHgU6GDHTr9e8fpu vMRUoGMFHT+Chyk2qx/en/IElSlbjhQik/pYE8DThOvseZXvCn3LgNed3bmBxQfyQvrD 9AN/oiXdswvmHZxUkLS3/2pXalcRUdrCusJ8E+zXYEbbuU0bkM8nhmqVBiGtBYUh3Xtx ydAQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.208.105 with SMTP id md9mr5095965igc.12.1340207758821; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.112.4 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:55:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:55:58 -0500 Message-ID: From: Antonio Olivares To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:56:00 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> licensed gcc or b) A maintained and current GPLv3 gcc with GPLv3 >> licensed libc. > > FreeBSD doesn't use GNU libc. am i missing something? > No they don't :) It is good that they don't. Why? Because of the changes from GPLv2 to GPLv3. Everything created with this license requires that everything be built with it :( This is why it can't be used in base. You can still use gcc, but it will not be in base. Many folks have tried to explain this, but you compare things that will most likely give the edge to gcc over clang. Take for instance the linux kernel. It is still GPLv2 and will most likely continue there. Why? Many developers don't like the change to GPLv3. See http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/6/12/232 http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3633931/Linux+Developers+Reject+GPLv3.htm I have seen many arguments and have been part of many flames/flaming GNU since I also use Linux based OS. I like FreeBSD and wondered why they also allow GPL stuff, but then I realized that it was in ports and the move to avoid gcc is in the base. You can still use the gcc, but it(FreeBSD system will be built with Clang). The move has been made and I see that it was necessary to avoid many GNUisms that take place. Politics, and Religious things aside, you can also see the following: http://www.articlesbase.com/operating-systems-articles/666-beggars-want-fle-licensing-stop-the-cult-of-government-3781316.html http://z505.com/gng/index.htm I have some friends that develop software. They had released it under GNU umbrella. Later on, other folks were taking advantage and not giving back as the license requires. There was little to no way to enforce the license, he decided to move to other license that protects his work and let others use it was well with little to no strings attached. He know uses the CDDL which is also an Open Source License. He can give you many reasons as to why the GPLv3 is the wrong way to go. I can ask him for these and other reasons at your request. Regards, Antonio From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 15:57:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CDB91065672 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:57:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from proace@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47F948FC25 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:57:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so6873675yen.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:57:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=mdRc6Y1glqjJ9zLGoBwBVcXh+U+mvBt/D1rf0Co/37c=; b=GQ2ap/cRy3E5RMTIa/206vO41puzx7JosIdE5i3gpXdQhSK+Om4xFIpkBJtkfu1ORE eBnCoQ6+MD+HvYQeNAnMUyjorjLY9eZRc24A7Lmlmo6dZTeHFz8BPtSGi1a3daqj07gI +1B73ZgbcgbSTONRZYkXIraI2DalpB/i9leYcvNZI+q79XVG4G8dNwLsRXz/pxKdjYSl 46eKtcZAYM+ECa0JQMzPLQdBCUrTkCUG85r1ZAunjlqqaKAlrSVL6pEyQUt+XaDMAmwV LemqeosqWjR20oVcZv+19Z6F0OjuZDIWK/BxSTe118zyLgUWiPuL+YbENmNaeSG5ndK6 SOxA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.60.2 with SMTP id n2mr8786312ank.29.1340207830845; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.147.78.20 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:57:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:57:10 +0800 Message-ID: From: ProAce To: Erik Osterholm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: packet filter problem on transparent firewall using bridge and pf X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:57:17 -0000 > 2012/6/20 Erik Osterholm : > > > Try adding logging to the rules, enable pflog, and see which rule is blocking. > > Erik hmm.... I discovered some things from log. Even if the packet hit a rule ( pass in quick on bridge0 .... ) , the packet still is blocked by block out rule ( block out on bridge0 ). So, I change some configuration. 1. bind freebsd ip ( 10.1.1.1 ) on em0 2. change some pf rules ( please see below ) pf.conf my_net=10.1.1.0/24 serv1="10.1.1.101" client1="10.1.6.73" set skip lo0 set skip bridge0 block in all block out all pass in log quick on em0 from $my_net to $my_net pass out log quick on em1 from $my_net to $my_net pass in log quick on em1 from $my_net to any pass out log quick on em0 from $my_net to any pass in log quick on em0 from $client1 to $serv1 pass out log quick on em1 from $client1 to $serv1 It's work now! :) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 16:06:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 313A8106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:06:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy5-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy5.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CE7B68FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:06:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 13310 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jun 2012 16:06:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by cpoproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2012 16:06:55 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=c/jfWiFAmJrtIcSxJ89LV6+mECVvPK0cXE6N4DY8xGU=; b=lf2yU4gFJvZgcQ3WLMuFhIvizf6VPCin5Dq36KECEkC9NBYivxlSvetTAGQv09UKycUzorsBx1BDIWzpkgah64GiAbyMVnPCgh3tyf+1E1x0aj9hfGgn7HvQqfZ2aiXG; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=61377 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShNQl-0000ac-4B for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:06:55 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:06:55 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620160655.GA21283@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <20120620030854.GA15821@hemlock.hydra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:06:56 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 06:45:16AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >>>but not to be turned into closed source products. > >> > >>What a lying sonofabitch. That is not called freedom. That is called > >>"forcible, viral open source". I think we can all see the difference. Open > >>your motherfucking eyes, communist goofball... > > > >Give him a break. His heart is in the right place, though his choice of > > GNU licence is nothing about freedom, it just says it is freedom. > > But what really is important for FreeBSD is if it can be used. IMHO > nothing from GPLv3 prevents it, and it is no licence based reasons > to use clang. 1. This has nothing to do with what I said. 2. I prefer Clang. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 16:12:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6195D1065679 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:12:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy9.bluehost.com (oproxy9.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 06CB28FC24 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:12:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 15803 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jun 2012 16:12:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy9.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2012 16:12:49 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=sQDgKRoeDSPnW7OwirbZgy1cse1nmg738DCDG5FNb08=; b=ArKE+aC6PMqX+tJbdwNvgptSDW2LOHcPe6OBLqpS9J9cipEKF9qClen+LpOIice0xVMrvXd3tvDF8+W8P7h3+XTDcJZNpZOVtQJkG4FDdeAcqZabhnG2XZkBpMBdwWKN; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=61479 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShNWT-0002Jf-3z for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:12:49 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:12:49 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620161249.GA22124@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:12:51 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 04:44:50PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >licensed gcc or b) A maintained and current GPLv3 gcc with GPLv3 > >licensed libc. > FreeBSD doesn't use GNU libc. am i missing something? Yes. Users are not identical to the FreeBSD base system. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 16:23:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 340EC106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:23:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from modulok@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f42.google.com (mail-qa0-f42.google.com [209.85.216.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9368FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:23:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qafi31 with SMTP id i31so3128343qaf.15 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:23:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=HSxgUPOC/ffthmMVasQWCHihBWXekJ587Yb0wNqMFbU=; b=KvYAjJw1ccwLFYbwFCzXDejFzoaIQnY/b6jjpxQDnT+G7Qd56E4Zt+bKaYzXWWvj/4 jmWEcQxJZcz5X1y0WhB7s0NujYEzBjqbsus+kVpJIalE8buw1U5MPGs8R8JgdDCJ1APn zKfbyKzVK90Y3rwA4GdCJNd5zCb1zAa8CglHeZWBaP9D3rLllZpxH6Cu1UZQP/ZQtePO NmljjOQaKe9c/35GiNcmgIYkB0OzFb+ECVERUZNUgRW80z5tgvhZmSwrH1tAbH+S5o1s euHcYk4H6852cKHgQzww4auwjPnF+yBwkoytMARtioGPo+3EkIMgoNCQIz1326n4w/dN nT4w== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.78.195 with SMTP id m3mr37296325qak.1.1340209437421; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.227.5 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:23:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120620161249.GA22124@hemlock.hydra> References: <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> <20120620161249.GA22124@hemlock.hydra> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:23:57 -0600 Message-ID: From: Modulok To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:23:58 -0000 This just keeps going on... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 16:27:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47CB310657C1 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:27:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from proace@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07B118FC1D for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:27:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhgm50 with SMTP id m50so6914364yhg.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:27:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=UVTGmxyd6mgG6ZifCKci7lweI8A36TdbspEsmI2Iha0=; b=DPOFdeBnxxMP1xfANBKbDIDrVUxCM59LCJjGrQj3mPA+8DNVWjlz7CER2rcWNnmJHU LNr4EWMZxNpvmN2c3lPP3Fgd9wGaT3DG3hj8VBWjdE2OXJpm7BuMgRMPMSGQ8wlqlrAw RCnP+L/f9terfYjwYzVZHUpagux8f01jF+Bo3KH0EMkA9gMQGT6y9mn9PgH5WZqTNyZs u/+GewpEhfFJZl82ztbayI63EMjfxzxf5S4cfj5rr9XGb0wQY0RXSEMR8FTX/YJETEU2 MrlL7lpHJkVmlRke3KGhwuqsTgOPYRWVD8rQ0+5rYjkjfBr/pdfM3pyv71BkKcxN8FFN a4gA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.165.74 with SMTP id d50mr14379602yhl.118.1340209674412; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.147.78.20 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:27:54 +0800 Message-ID: From: ProAce To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Big5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: packet cannot pass bridge sometimes .... X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:27:55 -0000 ( untrust ) --- ( em0 , bridge0 , em1 ) --- ( trust ) os version: 9.0-p3 I disable firewall , just run bridge function, and I bind a ip on em0. Sometimes , I cannot connect to server ( in trust zone ) from untrust. Then, I ping some ip from the server ( in trust ) to a host ( in untrust ). Suddenly, I connect to the server ( in trust zone ) successfully from untrust at this time. Why=A1HHow can I solve the problem=A1H Regards, From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 16:35:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39A201065796 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:35:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fernando.apesteguia@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF79C8FC16 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:35:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so8045279bkv.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:35:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tnccvx2XXdzqNsm0v97cIe/a5W1W7jsD5ZIDeXG82JE=; b=ntqjpUxaxzHxJbqL6blK/1VJGDvor0gBybbDN3zpZZWF2xmzKGkH9a/3Xl65bOEU4y XYa/Wfl6u1BwoAbo1ONiBPvzMrIa1jdFA7l2c5CQbb9MhMoJ5JdZgftFKFJ78BgXsspZ WMgVyLHgg3dbIORhOKoZ9+zVZq5izmKs+UUhybz6loBuXwX0LuvqzGbtdu5Nh14TWBOx mMbNgIHM+Ns62AeCtQPZ0bXJznMI5nUGXZxu6NZOZUhXJSvVmbPyYUS7/eNnLvU2zP7O JeVuDHIvcrenRcBueVR2IYogpMA1hV/9xPZ9KyXOPtaMW0uOOQz/1KxeIPYv8bJ2Rcvo FaVQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.109.198 with SMTP id hu6mr22968926lab.21.1340210124383; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:35:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.24.131 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:35:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201206201015.q5KAFKKj026496@mail.r-bonomi.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:35:24 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=EDa?= To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Robert Bonomi Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:35:26 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> still not stopped personal attacks (last part of last sentence) but let= s >>> forget. >> >> >> Fact; that was NOT a personal attack. =A0Your entire line of reasoning s= o >> far >> has been about -your- preferences, and things as you see them, for _your= _ > > > What is specifically my preference? > > >> =A01) Your opinion about the choice of the standard compiler "doesn't >> matter". > > > Once more - messing with my words and you know this. I am saying that it > doesn't matter others than performance. > > Clang performance is just bad. > > >> =A02) The decision _has_ been made. The only question at this point is >> "when". > > > And can be reversed because it is faulty. > > I successfully predicted the fall of linux (in quality point of view) yea= rs > ago, then netbsd - after this and my prediction were good. > > Now i predict FreeBSD will fall within 2015 time frame. I don't want to be picky, but predictions (of the future performance of clang) were not a valid point as you previously said ;) Performance is not the only thing that matters. As a developer (not a FreeBSD one), sometimes I would give everything to change a tool with good performance for another one with less performance but with a better design and documentation so I do not spend two days trying to figure out what the hell the previous thousands of programmers before me tried to do :) It could be risky to switch to clang, but if the decision proves wrong, we can always go back to GPL2 gcc, evaluate the possibility of GPL3 gcc or even use another compiler. Besides, it seems to me very objective that the pace of development of clang big and it can only be bigger if FreeBSD uses it as its base compiler. > What i mean fall - that it would be better to use older version as long a= s > possible because newer are worse. > > For now > > - FreeBSD 6 was an improvement > - FreeBSD 7 was an improvement, except first releases but that's normal > - FreeBSD 8 was a big improvement in performance and quality. > > > FreeBSD 9 as for now: > > - have similar performance at most > - have some improvement and important functionality like TRIM support. > - have some useful functionality like softdep journalling, but risky. Sti= ll > - forcing full check reveals some inconsistencies now and then. > > FreeBSD 10 will unlikely be better, but for sure slower unless you will > force gcc build that MAYBE will work. possibly not. > > So now there will be more and more backports done by users just for new > drivers until something that replace FreeBSD will be available. Assuming > there will at all. > > Wish i am wrong. Twice i wasn't > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 16:36:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F571065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:36:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from proace@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2B918FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:36:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so6764537ghb.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:36:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=u0PSYSRzB52PvIGGxvLM1j70eQI1wwI7D3RdJS+7sh4=; b=d8nNqIKbDLAHxthR+dJzNaH9WS2lijwBA2/W78XEhVwy6tVkjmPnuRIPbOxdQn8xj4 fNqvbhqWUi1lGDSnzvczYywAct3jIdZLzVUoYp9tj1uUnsTzEyL+AcGzUWRxz4V+eLub qLVP0groxdy8JjrYQrcmUKxQ3MSaSKocclYp6wseLkEusMIOtg01xCzED4GB/78dRSaG Qy9muEjnxcns+lfpIXY6D/ZSsfagG7HdLFlJ9MuHpEnXREu+DRCBwX3IdIdRDRQ3/KPN JAAh+uVrGWG9jy3VeSXZiNDkyaZ8vgfVHZfCWz/dQmpWSIxO1R+i33IkUwkuultMm8WI WtmA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.200.199 with SMTP id z47mr10125413yhn.82.1340210165063; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.147.78.20 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:36:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:36:04 +0800 Message-ID: From: ProAce To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Big5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: packet filter problem on transparent firewall using bridge and pf X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:36:06 -0000 I have another problem ..... >_< Sometimes , I cannot connect to server ( in trust zone ) from untrust. Even I turn off the firewall, the situation still come up. But, when the state appears, I ping some ip from the server ( in trust ) to a host ( in untrust ). Suddenly, I connect to the server ( in trust zone ) successfully from untrust at this time. Why=A1HHow can I solve the problem=A1H From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 16:39:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DED8106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:39:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root1101@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1CF8FC21 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:39:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so1106364lbo.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:39:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IYWtK6Zf01c58ShcOITRng4sMbvmyFC+LLwOSFQXGg0=; b=ukIdKPQdS9np3azy5C9QO8D7kjgPBtIDpVLXajskMhd4axhQBMRH9oKQSua3kG1Jml +8+VuwYrV6nKLWIY4TgDpYlmxvqG+DSLaXcqBmrtSMTp5mKcWkdGry+2OXOm7LaSm8md oOQbgl3rdnyRzB4pkI7h/5UCAOklWob3H2188kCO1JU/Qrmgx9TXgeZecnQbi/MPfg6T 4jPofcwaZoBKPtfFnwG7FvVOkjP+NZjsmrY1ixHPiHaNDUJfp6Zs+aO4oiMU5+Lju5AL bCz4KDk0yeIO3U0jznUWC+JIQsCNIX2jAyeG3dbo6IIjZgZ66aPdNUmz4KRtq477eUb6 Bwyw== Received: by 10.152.46.232 with SMTP id y8mr23148654lam.18.1340210385041; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (ppp91-79-239-71.pppoe.mtu-net.ru. [91.79.239.71]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id pp2sm40692143lab.3.2012.06.20.09.39.43 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:39:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE1FD18.7010101@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:40:56 +0400 From: =?UTF-8?B?0JXQstCz0LXQvdC40Lkg0JvQsNC60YLQsNC90L7Qsg==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120420 Thunderbird/10.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:39:46 -0000 20.06.2012 18:47, Mark Felder пиŃет: > On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:43:14 -0500, Wojciech Puchar > wrote: > >>> Why not make FreeBSD better for everyone by cooperating with the >>> CLANG project? >> >> because we already have great compiler - GCC. In spite of using GPL >> licence. > > GCC performs well, but it is a very messy undocumented codebase which > makes maintaining it a nightmare. Just ask Google -- you'll find many > others saying the same thing. It would take MORE work to get FreeBSD > devs up to speed on the GCC codebase to add the features we want than > it is to cooperate with the CLANG community and help them make their > compiler better than GCC in every test case. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > It is the classic developer/user argument. It is also stupid. The user side simply doesn't have the same needs, it can't understand how freaking hard it is sometimes to debug a large and complex program in a badly documented environment or worse with undocumented features. If it works faster ergo it is better - that is the only criteria to really have a meaning to a user. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 16:54:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B7C106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:54:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy8-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy8.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6946C8FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:54:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 21501 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jun 2012 16:54:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy8.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2012 16:54:26 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=PjJSGDAqb5GIfXWZ8ODHLihsjyFofBlDLpTY0kxWEa8=; b=C0uU4b/lmCkPRqrgfEGbmOWSZc9NSzIWIXmRsWbuqR8FDr9nxY0TkYMFDVkng7qOWBiLYcewKQuuVKLEERlNCib4wZhLrz0wC0BzmuHyzmt4ETWMel7l6F/BpLuG5v8p; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=61203 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShOAk-0007RK-6G for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:54:26 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:54:26 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620165425.GA23095@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <201206201140.31525.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:54:27 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 06:46:20AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > >>How about leaving politics and getting back to technical grounds? > > > >what is the problem as long as gcc is in the ports tree? > > what is a problem as clang is in the ports tree? I can think of at least one big reason: the FreeBSD base system should favor the 2-clause Simplified BSD License (aka New BSD License aka FreeBSD License) and compatible licenses. GPLvN, where N is *any* version number currently extant, is *not* a compatible license: it is a one-way valve. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 17:11:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BF3D106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:11:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy9.bluehost.com (oproxy9.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5E0808FC14 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:11:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 7501 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jun 2012 17:11:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy9.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2012 17:11:13 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=ZY+5h/GBYG0D/pP97CtN5b8hfiNTKACrSfjiRExP0nc=; b=Lc49UsGGRvJ//sxV+O9oRMvez3H51oBRPnscsxUetWtQz12Czp0cUsmTcg8rthoV4TKGLQGaSzpVUBSKQ5i6cKiBIjteYFYA2pNopCxEHSXDvJ02c/M+HPCLtyNB4zz3; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=62152 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShOQy-0001fV-IZ for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:11:12 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:11:12 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620171112.GB23095@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <201206201015.q5KAFKKj026496@mail.r-bonomi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:11:13 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 02:02:35PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >>still not stopped personal attacks (last part of last sentence) but lets > >>forget. > > > >Fact; that was NOT a personal attack. Your entire line of reasoning so far > >has been about -your- preferences, and things as you see them, for _your_ > > What is specifically my preference? It seems that your preference is for everyone to focus on specific use-case performance benchmarks that may not be valid in a month. > > > > 1) Your opinion about the choice of the standard compiler "doesn't matter". > > Once more - messing with my words and you know this. I am saying > that it doesn't matter others than performance. > > Clang performance is just bad. That's not messing with your words. It's pointing out that the fact you appear to believe you know the One True Answer isn't convincing many people, and almost certainly will have zero effect on anyone in a position to actually affect the choice of compiler for the base system. > > > > 2) The decision _has_ been made. The only question at this point is "when". > > And can be reversed because it is faulty. You say it's faulty, discounting all concerns that are not *your* concerns. Saying something, however, does not make it so. > > I successfully predicted the fall of linux (in quality point of > view) years ago, then netbsd - after this and my prediction were > good. > > Now i predict FreeBSD will fall within 2015 time frame. > What i mean fall - that it would be better to use older version as > long as possible because newer are worse. Have fun with that. I, for one, see the change to Clang as a good thing, for homogenizing and liberating the licensing terms of the base system if nothing else. > > For now > > - FreeBSD 6 was an improvement > - FreeBSD 7 was an improvement, except first releases but that's normal > - FreeBSD 8 was a big improvement in performance and quality. > > > FreeBSD 9 as for now: > > - have similar performance at most > - have some improvement and important functionality like TRIM support. > - have some useful functionality like softdep journalling, but > risky. Still - forcing full check reveals some inconsistencies now > and then. > > FreeBSD 10 will unlikely be better, but for sure slower unless you > will force gcc build that MAYBE will work. possibly not. Someone in this extended discussion mentioned that there are efforts underway to make sure the base system will compile cleanly with both Clang and GCC 4.2+, so I think you're just making up complaints here. Someone (other than Wojciech Puchar, who would just be talking out of his ass) correct me if I'm mistaken. > > So now there will be more and more backports done by users just for > new drivers until something that replace FreeBSD will be available. > Assuming there will at all. > > Wish i am wrong. Twice i wasn't When you set your own standards for "success", regardless of anyone else's thoughts on the matter, you'll probably always be right, no matter what predictions you make. That's especially the case when your standards are "If FreeBSD chooses Clang, it will fail by virtue of using Clang." Using a meaningless tautology as your standard for failure is essentially irrelevant to . . . everything. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 17:40:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3351F1065672 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:40:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy7-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy7.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E85DB8FC15 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:40:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 13092 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jun 2012 17:40:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy7.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2012 17:40:07 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=ImNSEzlSkglcXe6dU6uG8/uaD8RSxUtPWC8vHox1CQo=; b=eqiJrZEX2W71QLmMKoRRUWVUAfMqPapA35c5GMRloPfn3CYlGoIPqweNr27SX0S/PaabFLw0IcfiXPmRX+RQbaWNiFdXMwGuk7bvbdYmlBu6iM65eWvVNrZrEFh77IcF; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=63895 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShOsw-00073W-9d for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:40:06 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:40:05 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620174005.GC23095@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:40:08 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:09:23AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >1. gcc will still be available through the ports system. > > As well as clang is available in ports. not an argument. No, it's not an argument all by itself. It's *part* of an argument. > > > >2. The move to clang/llvm as a default compiler will reduce the amount > >of GPL code in the base system, eventually reducing distribution > >issues (especially for 3rd parties). > > true. But JUST reducing GPL code should be a target per se. > FreeBSD is about performance and quality not politics or religion. FreeBSD needs to be able to keep up with bug fixes and support for C and C++ language standards to maintain quality. It needs to avoid licensing that discourages use to maintain relevance, development resources, and productive value, all of which contribute to quality. Performance differences between Clang and GCC are at present so minor as to be considered negligible except for the most pathological edge cases, and Clang performance is improving at a rapid pace that suggests it will soon be a clear performance improvement over GCC. The Clang codebase is more modular and less of a tangled mess, by all accounts, which improves maintainability, extensibility, fixability, and advance-ability, which may be why "In LLVM/Clang [a char type incrementation bug] was not known but was fixed in less than 24 hours," while "In GCC the bug is known and has existed for some time." http://blog.regehr.org/archives/482 In short, as FreeBSD as a whole is to something like Microsoft Windows with regard to stability, bug fixing, and ease of maintenance, so it seems Clang is to GCC. That's not "politics or religion." That's a very real-world, practical benefit to using Clang, to say nothing of the benefit of not having to jump through political, religious, or legal hoops to redistribute something distributed under a copyfree license like Clang, as contrasted with something distributed under a copyleft license like GCC. > > > >3. clang/llvm provides better error and warning messages, as well as > >good static code analysis, which helps reduce some classes of bugs and > >eventually will result in a more reliable FreeBSD system. > > as with 1 - you may use clang when developing. Thank you for such permission. I didn't need it, and I doubt anyone else did, either. > > > >4. clang/llvm is improving quickly. > > When/If it WILL actually improve to be better than gcc it should be > imported to FreeBSD. not sooner. Looking to the future helps ensure that we can choose something that will be better in the long run now, get involved early, and thus help it improve more quickly as well as helping ensure that its "improvements" are to some extent suitable to our uses. Stop thinking about a fiscal period obsessed CEO, and start thinking long-term. > > > >5. clang/llvm is more modular than gcc, although there are plans for > >gcc to become as modular, it will take time. > > Doesn't matter how it is written, but how it performs. How it is written matters for purposes of ensuring faster and less problematic fixes when problems arise. Think long-term for a change. > > > >6. gcc produces faster code, but clang/llvm will eventually (soon > >enough) get there. > > This is your prediction. Not definite fact, mine and other > predictions are different. By the same token, GCC getting greater modularity is not a definite fact, and I would prefer a compiler it will be easier to maintain for future stability, security, and correctness, over one with a generally negligible performance advantage. > > > >7. From the reasons above, it makes sense to complete a task sooner > >rather than later, especially that clang/llvm isn't showing any signs > >of weakness (lack of development power, etc). > > NOBODY prevent you and FreeBSD developers to fix things already - so > FreeBSD and ports would compile with both compilers. > > Actually it is good to fix it already, as making programs compile > with both means usually fixing non-portability bug which would help > using third compiler that may possibly emerge. > > But this DO NOT require clang to be a part of main system. As well > as making it default. It also does not require GCC to be part of the base system, or to be the default, so this point in your argument is moot. > > > >8. There might be more reasons for or against, but I couldn't think of any. > > Against: > > All "for" arguments assumes clang WILL be better. This is a change > as less than 2 days before it was stated to already be better. It is, in many respects, already better. It produces more-correct output than GCC; it does not pollute the base system with copyleft licensing; it does not pollute "intermediate code" representations combined or transformed by other tools during compilation with copyleft licensing; it has a better architecture for maintenance, which bears directly on the ability of FreeBSD developers to contribute to its development and on the likelihood of the compiler maintaining stability, currency, and correctness in the future; it shows far greater beneficial improvement over time than GCC, suggesting much better development support; upstream development is much more responsive to the needs of downstream users and redistributors, including the FreeBSD project; it includes interesting project initiatives, including one that may ultimately obviate the need for Oracle's troublesome JVM; et cetera. If nothing else, the more-correct output should trump negligible performance differences that are likely to evaporate in the near future, especially considering how long GCC has had to clean up its output problems and consistently failed to do so. > > As a comparision - DragonFly BSD is stated to have better ideas that > would result in better performing system in a future. > > But FOR NOW it is much worse performer than FreeBSD that's why i > (and lots of other people) does not switch to DragonFly but of > course will when(and if) DragonFly BSD will actually be better. And > i don't really think this "IF" will happen at all, but i wish to > DragonFly BSD i am wrong. > > Same should be used for clang. AS LONG as it is not better it should > not be imported into base system or worse - used as default. It is better. It just isn't better for the specific cases *you* consider important, even when those cases are of questionable value in the vast majority of circumstances and the ways in which it is better that you ignore are far more broadly applicable. > > Making decision based on wishes and personal likes instead of > technical facts isn't something that anyone should be proud about. So . . . stop doing it. Wishing away other factors does not mean they do not exist. > > As for your words about doing decision good for FreeBSD, not me - it > is pure nonsense attacks because anything that is good for FreeBSD > quality is good for me, and the reverse. That's only true if everyone else measures "quality" the same way you do. Saving three seconds per day on specific tasks is not likely to be the sole factor in most people's determinations of quality. > > The decision of switching to clang now it shows that ideologic and > "religious" arguments won over technical arguments. > > The agressive and data-manipulationg reactions of many people on > that list shows that above sentence is true. When you refuse to assume good faith at first encounter in discussion, you just make everyone into your enemy. This pretty well ensures that the majority of people will ignore your concerns, no matter how valid they may (or may not) be. Try approaching a discussion with the attitude that it is an opportunity for both you and the other party to each learn something from the other, rather than with the attitude that if anyone starts out disagreeing with you that person must be a malevolent entity bent on the destruction of all that is good and right in the world. > > This IMHO much change. What does that H stand for? It sure as hit ain't "humble". -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 17:45:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3D49106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:45:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy7-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy7.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B52358FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:45:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 1756 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jun 2012 17:45:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy7.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2012 17:45:49 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=USWuXbzZOGg9WdTAmJgWCXDCVj79JPdq3p8teNbcM7I=; b=XAYYtn4tXV+6o8IUn4hoXKogWdXcwitHZu94ieUaSpMvn4ICIOgG4cQIHJl3MmD5/p+kvMld0QsFlJTu4jpO/dfWhuoSJqciabbmVg+/dztkrx6fCYeqhX+8jrCOFINa; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=64031 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShOyS-0007TS-PA for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:45:48 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:45:49 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620174549.GD23095@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FE19BFC.7030304@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:45:50 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:14:09PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > >And why you think it's not better then gcc? > > because - as you already should know - test shows otherwise. You just ignored everything Volodymyr Kostyrko said about the other factors that are also important for a compiler being considered "better". Good job. I have a hint to share with you, though: Ignoring an argument does not make it wrong. > > As well as FreeBSD running predictable with gcc anyway. . . . for some use cases, evidently including yours. In my case, Clang's stability and predictability is better than GCC's, and in some other cases it may be *much* better. In the cases where it isn't, that's a case of standards-noncompliant code in a port causing problems, and it is a problem that is being fixed prior to FreeBSD 10 release with Clang as the sole compiler in the base system (last I heard). This is what happens when you use a more standards-compliant compiler: you get more stable and predictable behavior. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 17:48:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 729141065675 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:48:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy9.bluehost.com (oproxy9.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2FCA58FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:48:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 11206 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jun 2012 17:48:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy9.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2012 17:48:04 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=A6sh3Npi1imUOYgnNztl3Rygica1wkFh3HV2a+f4O/c=; b=gU6++xZvMBWiB/4yOlsL4+YL+5bMwYr1L9mafK9JTrggLi7B0fUK3I46kYunCTAed387yhTxHkca+UDiB7dwWkC59Bist1ZnKPiYrjLHPBkNHRy/5XW5lD0TQru6q0Mp; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=60004 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShP0d-0002DH-BJ for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:48:03 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:48:03 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620174803.GE23095@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FE19BFC.7030304@gmail.com> <4FE1BDEC.1040705@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:48:04 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 02:16:43PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >speed estimates. > > there are a difference between speed estimate and actual speed - and > i talk about the latter only. You're talking about poorly managed benchmarks that are imprecise and prone to fluctuation, applying only to very specific cases that are not necessarily very broadly representative, but you are talking about them as though they are perfectly representative of all cases. That is, at best, "speed estimates". > > > >Besides, NetBSD and OpenBSD has already selected and using pcc > >now. And they are fine with that one. > > their problem. No -- it's their solution. It would be a problem only if the previous statement said "and they are *not* fine with that one." -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 18:07:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C47A106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:07:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from "") Received: from remailer.privacy.at (remailer.privacy.at [212.124.141.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15F888FC17 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:07:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by remailer.privacy.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id D62547F583 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:07:57 +0200 (CEST) From: "Anonymous Remailer (austria)" Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. Please report problems or inappropriate use to the remailer administrator at . To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4FE1BDEC.1040705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <061ec7554ec379f592240afb3eaa0d77@remailer.privacy.at> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:07:57 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:07:59 -0000 > Besides, NetBSD and OpenBSD has already selected and using pcc now. And > they are fine with that one. I wish that or something like that were true, but pcc is dead even in OpenBSD packages/ports. There was just some discussion on misc@ I am hoping for the day gcc is only used on Linux and many free compilers are used everywhere else. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 18:30:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B68E1065686 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:30:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy5-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy5.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4EBAC8FC1C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:30:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 6729 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jun 2012 18:30:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by cpoproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2012 18:30:48 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=xcaFOsB6fW6s4pmaAy/5tsykH49yaLjf4qJ0JplSCQ8=; b=IkSebO4Zo1oXR64od/veQkrwh7BSXYH8zf/vjkpsKkRfkQWtvxpos7nXK5ShaC2rAUHX1zYH2n5ewd2vZr/YS00HM/ble+r9KaGGzhmBsIly63qgkRCVqrjX7mkd2Eja; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=63250 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShPfz-0002m2-RW for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:30:47 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:30:48 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620183048.GF23095@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20120620032824.GD15821@hemlock.hydra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Attaching a monitor via vga X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:30:49 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 07:27:33AM -0600, Warren Block wrote: > > Adding a new mode should not be needed for most monitors. I do this > to set up the external video: > > xrandr --output VGA --above LVDS > > That's to span a single desktop over both monitors. > > Some desktop environments have their own ideas about which monitors > are attached and what part of the desktop is shown, and that must be > changed in the DE's settings. My use case involves putting everything on one monitor at a time -- the larger desktop LCD when it's plugged in, and the laptop display when the external monitor is *not* plugged in. From the sound of the request, that is the use case the orignial querent in this thread had in mind as well. Your tip could well be useful for some use cases, though. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 19:19:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEDF7106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:19:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@m.gmane.org) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 876998FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:19:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ShQQp-0003fm-N6 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:19:11 +0200 Received: from cpc3-walt15-2-0-cust148.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com ([86.21.186.149]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:19:11 +0200 Received: from walterhurry by cpc3-walt15-2-0-cust148.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:19:11 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Walter Hurry Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:19:01 +0000 (UTC) Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: cpc3-walt15-2-0-cust148.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com User-Agent: Pan/0.135 (Tomorrow I'll Wake Up and Scald Myself with Tea; GIT 30dc37b master) Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:19:19 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:32:24 +0200, Fred Morcos wrote: > Hello all, > > I am new to FreeBSD, coming from a GNU/Linux background (most > comfortable with Archlinux). I compiled a series of questions I would > like to ask in different areas and categories. Should I send them all in > a single email message or should I split them by subject/topic into > different emails? > > The advantage of the former is that I will be able to easily show > relations between the different topics and questions (put them into > context) as well as articulate the setup I would like to reach. The > advantage of the latter is that it is cleaner and simpler to answer one > question by one. > > Also, I have done a bit of poking around to answer each of my own > questions, obviously with no luck, so I do not mind RTFM-ing - I would > actually prefer it, please feel free to link me to an article, > tutorial, man page or handbook that already answers one or more > question(s). I'm quite new to FreeBSD too (RHEL/Fedora background), and am most impressed with it so far. The first thing to mention is that this is an extremely helpful list (I won't call it a newsgroup because it isn't one, though I read it via gmane), and as such is most useful. Ask away! Secondly (and probably stating the obvious), the handbook is the place I always look first. Good luck! From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 19:26:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 902C81065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:26:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amvandemore@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com (mail-wi0-f178.google.com [209.85.212.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DAD28FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:26:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhn6 with SMTP id hn6so3669245wib.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:26:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=GKNcCDki6pGu2W1eBDjokB6TFF9/lCWhgDjL1fdwDpo=; b=YBE9XWJeIbAhjd+otWa/CaX+92hfHfrXLc8VnG4rHapqkCHQaNU/60EdIxVQKazoWa IBb6I+Zdqr5urpOnt3Df5nHVOgw9lNeFTDbPxIyp2ytHd7qPfBbZkEoZi+WtCC045ava s/45xrbjFlxy0JqVafbx1zf8MZ9EesEsjOYJyS6L8E+hcQEGoQSfF9zxznpHt06w2M24 IjP0ZF4rUt36vQfWQXj6SU+vvy8ha57atOsQWCJiJ1LoUwbVA9VHHtHC1Vokav/+a/U6 EFutgsX/KbRjWq0KPjbTBHKN72rnMYCPCGNN55CPP8VpJ07h/xN2SRXig8EO5dbx3X+Q xVjQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.204.88 with SMTP id g66mr13074207weo.79.1340220394025; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:26:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.88.155 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:26:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:26:33 -0500 Message-ID: From: Adam Vande More To: Fred Morcos Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:26:35 -0000 These are good guidelines to follow: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/freebsd-questions/article.html Try to avoid X Y problems. Initiating it with the root question will give the best results. On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:32 AM, Fred Morcos wrote: > Hello all, > > I am new to FreeBSD, coming from a GNU/Linux background (most > comfortable with Archlinux). I compiled a series of questions I would > like to ask in different areas and categories. Should I send them all > in a single email message or should I split them by subject/topic into > different emails? > > The advantage of the former is that I will be able to easily show > relations between the different topics and questions (put them into > context) as well as articulate the setup I would like to reach. The > advantage of the latter is that it is cleaner and simpler to answer > one question by one. > > Also, I have done a bit of poking around to answer each of my own > questions, obviously with no luck, so I do not mind RTFM-ing - I would > actually prefer it, please feel free to link me to an article, > tutorial, man page or handbook that already answers one or more > question(s). > > Cheers, > Fred > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Adam Vande More From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 19:58:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 614871065672 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:58:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C25258FC15 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:58:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KJw1v3003125; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:58:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KJw1gG003122; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:58:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:58:01 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Walter Hurry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:58:01 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:58:07 -0000 > I'm quite new to FreeBSD too (RHEL/Fedora background), and am most > impressed with it so far. rather huge difference. > Secondly (and probably stating the obvious), the handbook > > > > is the place I always look first. and third - manuals. They are in sync with system and actually VERY useful. while i was still (long time ago) using linux most common manual was like "this manual is outdated. Use texinfo documentation". and texinfo docs was often outdated too. Today it is most probably "look at wikipedia" ;) Of course i means FreeBSD base system, ports are not part of FreeBSD and quality varies. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 20:02:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FB3E1065676 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:02:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1A1E8FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:02:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KK2TUN003161; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:02:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KK2TDx003158; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:02:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:02:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: "Anonymous Remailer (austria)" In-Reply-To: <061ec7554ec379f592240afb3eaa0d77@remailer.privacy.at> Message-ID: References: <061ec7554ec379f592240afb3eaa0d77@remailer.privacy.at> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:02:29 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:02:33 -0000 > > I wish that or something like that were true, but pcc is dead even in > OpenBSD packages/ports. There was just some discussion on misc@ > > I am hoping for the day gcc is only used on Linux and many free compilers > are used everywhere else. me too. but first we need to have Free compiler that would be at least comparable with gcc in resulting code. Actually i would like to see that even linux migrates out of GNU communism. For now - as i've read in many places, less than 50% of newly developed open source software use GPL licence. It was >95% not long time ago. Good. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 20:06:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A97E106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:06:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from christer.solskogen@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D42BC8FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:06:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so7010009ghb.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:06:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=/2ikWxDHh0chtHiEUBfXVgvQHWyzv6vGqQcWyguhibo=; b=kZkQFVL3E8bNS7CkO0UonVrUqu169oi4yKGd2nMpWBAWsrLw3TlXkOtPAn2GcDX793 34shUDvg+wCbYymoiG7KsH7u7+8fB2g9iJ4c+BEqTR0bWpMmhf1r9anF6cwkEr5fanLW mpX/l3Ynl74/F409HpNTAYnpOLerb2FskJbh8IpRCu+7OKBGlDWH/ED8USlczvhuQGnr F8bl1pct9sS1cwfxo2MCYt5D3IlMz/mSGj7HXPJioR9QrhMBGB5ujGZZG25d2LpBAVmG 4TjaQYdA/7uObCYFWVuk2C3Gngg990FssLIm6hYMHCmtyJXpeLiaPqa5dVMMAesXJk9p 3Ntw== Received: by 10.50.202.102 with SMTP id kh6mr5781976igc.69.1340222766264; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:06:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.64.67.233 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:05:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> From: Christer Solskogen Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:05:46 +0200 Message-ID: To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: Adam Vande More , Michel Talon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:06:08 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > Will i be able to compile FreeBSD base system with gcc after some time? > not sure. Why is that so important for you? -- chs, From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 20:06:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07E4D1065672 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:06:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E69E8FC1D for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:06:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KK6VqC003191; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:06:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KK6V2S003188; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:06:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:06:31 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Antonio Olivares In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:06:31 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:06:35 -0000 > I have some friends that develop software. They had released it under > GNU umbrella. Later on, other folks were taking advantage and not isn't it that once you release your own work as GPL you don't really own this and even you cannot use it in closed source software? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 20:07:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A461106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:07:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B72598FC1E for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:07:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KK794G003198; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:07:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KK791p003195; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:07:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:07:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Christer Solskogen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:07:10 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Adam Vande More , Michel Talon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:07:13 -0000 > wrote: >> Will i be able to compile FreeBSD base system with gcc after some time? >> not sure. > > Why is that so important for you? if you would read even less than carefully the topic you will get the answer. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 20:15:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A461106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:15:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from christer.solskogen@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E19E98FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:15:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnm2 with SMTP id m2so7045576ggn.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:15:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=pf6IB+f90Abk4RGTq4xoEAS/D0DRv/RIxGqdVv5DGw0=; b=Foni4p2qcYo+0wic3a3EceraqZQX8QOAdZt2N7XqUdlnBVyU+N6nR8o1/Zmp7MgQNs C8YM1c4p+mou6rzSMbwFN7vF1dH/ORXC9MYdvpvV93qibLOI9ZhTyzRexzOseEbcsMQj vnLHqyKzuyAdZCnIoqMHHZXKQ1wTYwOTBAVU1KDKB7La0e6fP+HU8vV/17PfzG8mMaCu jvdykRLH58rRFj8WZimOJU9E212mxUksn/a1VW8/pwWEOtMntBj5Mp3AGcNax0AcQ0xu Z5x/+wQYlgL0NhYeSu+k+fMXBEOeLiu2D+bTQE1TRWXedHZRwdRsXM2NEDlNtDxjJ+vU 5o5Q== Received: by 10.50.219.162 with SMTP id pp2mr5872545igc.40.1340223335329; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:15:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.64.67.233 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:15:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> From: Christer Solskogen Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:15:15 +0200 Message-ID: To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: Adam Vande More , Michel Talon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:15:36 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:07 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> wrote: >>> >>> Will i be able to compile FreeBSD base system with gcc after some time? >>> not sure. >> >> >> Why is that so important for you? > > if you would read even less than carefully the topic you will get the > answer. No, I don't. And don't patronize me that way. You'll loose. -- chs, From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 20:23:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320641065674 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:23:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD28A8FC17 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:23:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5KKNJ52029076 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:23:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:23:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206202023.q5KKNJ52029076@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/* X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:23:07 -0000 > From: Wojciech Puchar > > >> But still - do you know why it is necessary? > > > > An explanation written some 80 years ago; > > 'Because that way it will work'. > if you don't have anything to say - just don't do it. practice what you preach. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 20:47:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 398FE1065675 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:47:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1F668FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:47:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-40-10.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.40.10]) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC4B627EC1; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:40:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q5KKeUaj004219; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:40:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:40:30 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Wojciech Puchar Message-Id: <20120620224030.1a0dc3b4.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Questions , Antonio Olivares Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:47:03 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:06:31 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > I have some friends that develop software. They had released it under > > GNU umbrella. Later on, other folks were taking advantage and not > > isn't it that once you release your own work as GPL you don't really own > this and even you cannot use it in closed source software? Releasing something as GPL does not mean you give up copyright. If I understood this whole thing correctly, _you_ (as the creator) can still use the source that you've just released to the public (under the GPL rules) and create derivates from it, continue development "internally" into a different direction and also use it in a commercial way as closed-source. _Others_ can not do so. The act of releasing is, as far as I know, tied to a specific version of the "source tree" - the point from which others can see, download, use and modify the source counts. If I understand the GPL correctly, from that point (i. e. when contributions have taken place) you cannot turn the "result" into closed source. However, with your own work, you can. Maybe some lawyer intellectual property copyright expert can be more precise and elaborate. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 20:57:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11D4F1065674 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:57:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy7-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy7.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B5DBF8FC08 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:57:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 22505 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jun 2012 20:57:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy7.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2012 20:57:31 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=7yiRgAOEPcBiaqy7bzbY/1zrOnu38Lxg9A8NzKwScXg=; b=alWxrtqVu5p0ZKp5uLssolqEpyAUqbRgUsMzmWOSEOWzb8RmphHjKXkLU3i6oMdP0aItw2jQ3UMO99XaIV40pTK7ja9pprwXlm5VtZfM8MGxbpPwUiCJzKZVP4wQaQ7R; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=60293 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShRxy-0004p1-VI for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:57:31 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:57:31 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620205731.GA26703@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:57:33 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:06:31PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >I have some friends that develop software. They had released it under > >GNU umbrella. Later on, other folks were taking advantage and not > > isn't it that once you release your own work as GPL you don't really > own this and even you cannot use it in closed source software? When you license something, you still own the copyright. You can then release it under other licenses as well, and for versions you have modified you can release it under another license *only* if you choose, thus no longer having the GPL attached to those version. The old version's license, though, cannot be rescinded for those who have already received it under those terms, which then allows them to pass it on to others under the same license. This means that you can simultaneously offer a piece of software for which you own the copyright both under the GPL and as a paid-license product for those who want different license terms than the GPL, so yeah, you *can* use it in closed source software even when distributing it under the GPL at the same time if *you* own the copyright or if you get a separate license from whoever owns the copyright. The people who are restricted from using it in a closed-source project are those who do not "own" the copyright, do not pay the copyright holder for a different license, and acquire it under the GPL. In short, the people most restricted in such circumstances are the people who make up the open source development community. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 21:11:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43E0A106568A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:11:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy6-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy6.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a6]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0103E8FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:11:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 1271 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jun 2012 21:11:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by cpoproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2012 21:11:03 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=R1gHgcNNrSsEjPlCJFU3PKDAzpV3oPjrBEqPID8qakQ=; b=WVnYMtvVThWcVcynXOeZRTk5C7H8sWddsCXfbXaMLJReBS+JHbztCf3jahFjGgdB80Bamz6RVCCV/j4m/sRJaLUiypM9v3DhFgxH7zdbzlbH7u4MhBhY0GoCYRtjFuah; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=60553 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShSB4-0000lr-Ps for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:11:02 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:11:03 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620211103.GB26703@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:11:06 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:07:09PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > wrote: > >>Will i be able to compile FreeBSD base system with gcc after some time? > >>not sure. > > > >Why is that so important for you? > if you would read even less than carefully the topic you will get > the answer. I'll try to help out, here. Christer Solskogen: I think the reason that is so very important to Wojciech Puchar is the fact that he is incapable of imagining: 1. other concerns that might apply 2. that things appear highly likely to change 3. that a negligible performance difference is . . . negligible I'm pretty sure he's not running compute clusters on FreeBSD, after all. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 21:14:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D7D21065676 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:14:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy6-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy6.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a6]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1324E8FC15 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:14:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 12528 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jun 2012 21:14:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by cpoproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2012 21:14:17 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=QA2TPyg94ddits0laiZGvoLz4ieJsbbUBBVvdz0V2gY=; b=Icsl1Yz7Q5aip2tJfgLoTv0nq6y2kQSExh6wxJlyRT3pvAOI4yiOxqG7WzJZGUFzgmbwPlCiiqc1ak5Su2IVZwDbghgNNDyEZ9dfTI403jWL13Zgxu1tKBUnPDHk9hDP; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=60611 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShSED-0005r0-9U for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:14:17 -0600 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:14:17 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120620211417.GC26703@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <4FE1FD18.7010101@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4FE1FD18.7010101@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:14:18 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 08:40:56PM +0400, Евгений Лактанов wrote: > 20.06.2012 18:47, Mark Felder пиŃет: > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:43:14 -0500, Wojciech Puchar > > wrote: > >> [attribution lost by Wojciech Puchar and I'm too lazy to check] > >>> > >>> Why not make FreeBSD better for everyone by cooperating with the > >>> CLANG project? > >> > >> because we already have great compiler - GCC. In spite of using GPL > >> licence. > > > > GCC performs well, but it is a very messy undocumented codebase which > > makes maintaining it a nightmare. Just ask Google -- you'll find many > > others saying the same thing. It would take MORE work to get FreeBSD > > devs up to speed on the GCC codebase to add the features we want than > > it is to cooperate with the CLANG community and help them make their > > compiler better than GCC in every test case. > > It is the classic developer/user argument. It is also stupid. The user > side simply doesn't have the same needs, it can't understand how > freaking hard it is sometimes to debug a large and complex program in a > badly documented environment or worse with undocumented features. If it > works faster ergo it is better - that is the only criteria to really > have a meaning to a user. It's bikeshed painting. Someone who doesn't understand the many factors that apply, and doesn't even *want* to know, picks one thing he thinks he understands and argues about it in an attempt to make the entire project change course. Well, dammit, I *like* blue, and he can take his bucket of red paint home with him to paint his *own* bikeshed. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 21:25:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEDB31065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:25:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from blue.seahorse.syndicate@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2E98FC1C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:25:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so5446721qcs.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:25:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:subject:references:date:to:mime-version:from :organization:message-id:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=7kfO2bZUIoDMnE2E9w+/CcXtvopcBXLAz56IpjTvdAY=; b=qOwiJOfhvHo6zik4alxaFPjaoeME3rfegWlHNVvW9Pr1mBZK7zf5fwwgLgLfvJqRaY b2DckHz+8F2rNSMIYk4aAkHS0NyDyrHeoUvsqPgN4YJsdWOGbNNiaQ9ti46+8Q9wt/+A J1RudGZgdSReIaY5M5KhuL7tEvfapBlKqVNfg1PedGLhPfG8psXEhxShMlF3F/gu3xWN 08Vm2JZlK4KHNiGhBFcndPNwv88GfX/fWOr+Rmws3c1m348ouumXr+2VaIMnpGxLNaoo wjCLgT/W7ULLuyteqLKMWtddCXWcChT7LWHL7zNnndgoqX5xmnweIIbSKIFPYOFF1Y6z 9E6Q== Received: by 10.224.86.206 with SMTP id t14mr43498197qal.11.1340227539885; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:25:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blueleafone (pool-72-73-72-102.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net. [72.73.72.102]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fe8sm58031796qab.11.2012.06.20.14.25.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:25:38 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:25:25 -0400 To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Lynn Steven Killingsworth Organization: Blue Seahorse Syndicate Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (Win64) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Fwd: Need latest xorg X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:25:40 -0000 I don't seem to have generated much comment. I suspect you are thinking as I do that if your servers don't immediately download then their is a bandit on my Internet line?? ------- Forwarded message ------- From: "Lynn Steven Killingsworth" To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Cc: Subject: Need latest xorg Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:02:29 -0400 Hi FreeBSD - I have an AMD HD 7950 video card so I am trying to install the latest FreeBSD xorg available (7.5.2) for an updated driver. When I start make the install immediately stops at MesaLib-7.6.1.tar.gz. I can restart it on a primary using the location given then after a short time the install stops at /x11/9menu (/9menu-1.8.shar.gz) I can also attempt to restart this on a couple of servers but after a trip around the world my install still stops at /x11/9menu I live in Maine (USA) so I pick the MIT primary ftp5 since I inadvertly determined it was MIT. ftp1 also sends me on a trip around the world with the same result. If I can install xorg-7.5.2 I am hoping then that the install of kde4-4.8.4 will complete on this new install of FreeBSD 9.0 Does anyone else have a favorite ftp that cooperates? (And I notice the location in the server is different from the primaries on other servers?) Steve -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 21:34:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4255106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:34:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mgamsjager@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BD648FC15 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:34:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcbfy7 with SMTP id fy7so5265494vcb.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:34:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=X2HgkZa5GuR+D+Gym7vg1Od27IGOLCsgc6HGuZujhKM=; b=sktocbj9WemOoi0UEhfW9/pGSlui1ZCW8cZiFDDCPMzaucAMKPYoTDB8Ryg8i7rv6q FlOqmDJfJ3GVXaCQZfUXR3AWTvNlOpt7C8UyZ7LIIZaQws8d/RGzYwWCPFKysfgW73+q xYirH0YAaCG+EOxZ+vgmqK3AdlL0a3WjA0FkFQQ+S2AxUXW2nbFUaC8pXo9nWdn4KaNS 74hsmzFSCGszsj1y0U1zlzpdnnM031YZqjXfA7B1QJ7tpTC4PIVeZFkrxg8qkvHJZaLl Dx4tMm0Izqjv2R/wnMMKUTbRpi8OLDYzb01jT+22ilxT36JVgatqWqv9UJViyUGp3dbL hqkA== Received: by 10.52.36.180 with SMTP id r20mr9959371vdj.15.1340228040886; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:34:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.172.199 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:33:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Matthias Gamsjager Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:33:30 +0200 Message-ID: To: Lynn Steven Killingsworth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Need latest xorg X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:34:01 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Lynn Steven Killingsworth < blue.seahorse.syndicate@gmail.com> wrote: > I don't seem to have generated much comment. > > I suspect you are thinking as I do that if your servers don't immediately > download then their is a bandit on my Internet line?? > > > > > Newer AMD videocards and Freebsd is just pure pain. Dont think the newer xorg will change much. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 21:43:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 034BD106566C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:43:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@m.gmane.org) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B29B08FC17 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:43:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ShSgU-0007GR-8E for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:43:30 +0200 Received: from cpc3-walt15-2-0-cust148.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com ([86.21.186.149]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:43:30 +0200 Received: from walterhurry by cpc3-walt15-2-0-cust148.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:43:30 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Walter Hurry Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:43:15 +0000 (UTC) Lines: 15 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: cpc3-walt15-2-0-cust148.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com User-Agent: Pan/0.135 (Tomorrow I'll Wake Up and Scald Myself with Tea; GIT 30dc37b master) Subject: No sound in Flash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:43:34 -0000 FreeBSD 9 (x86_64). Sorry if this is a FAQ, but I have googled assiduously and found nothing useful. I have installed Flash, following the instructions in the handbook. It works well, and the video element seems fine and smooth. But on (for example) YouTube, there is no audio at all. This is despite the fact that .mp3s, .mp4s, .avis, .movs etc. all play perfectly (in mplayer). There is probably a simple solution, but I cannot find it. Can anyone help? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 21:57:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CF6D1065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:57:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 875028FC15 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:57:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KLvI7Z001425; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:57:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KLvHLk001422; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:57:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:57:17 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Polytropon In-Reply-To: <20120620224030.1a0dc3b4.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> <20120620224030.1a0dc3b4.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:57:18 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions , Antonio Olivares Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:57:24 -0000 >> >> isn't it that once you release your own work as GPL you don't really own >> this and even you cannot use it in closed source software? > > Releasing something as GPL does not mean you give up > copyright. If I understood this whole thing correctly, I'm not a lawyer but i repeat what i've read time ago, and .. that is a logical result. > The act of releasing is, as far as I know, tied to a > specific version of the "source tree" - the point from > which others can see, download, use and modify the > source counts. If I understand the GPL correctly, from > that point (i. e. when contributions have taken place) > you cannot turn the "result" into closed source. > > However, with your own work, you can. thanks for explanation. from what i know (still, possibly incorrent) if i am hired as a programmer and write a program, this program belong to the company and i couldn't use it everywhere at least officially. I wasn't ever hired as a programmer (or fortunately, as anyone else) so it wasn't ever a problem for me. but that was my reasoning. So - if authors of any project, no matter how numerous, will all without exception agree that they want to get rid of GPL, then - they always can turn it to BSD licenced ? am i right? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 21:59:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9EA1065690 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:59:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ED568FC23 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:59:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KLxKMc001441; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:59:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KLxKun001438; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:59:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:59:20 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chad Perrin In-Reply-To: <20120620205731.GA26703@hemlock.hydra> Message-ID: References: <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> <20120620205731.GA26703@hemlock.hydra> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:59:20 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:59:36 -0000 >> >> isn't it that once you release your own work as GPL you don't really >> own this and even you cannot use it in closed source software? > > When you license something, you still own the copyright. You can then > release it under other licenses as well, and for versions you have > modified you can release it under another license *only* if you choose, thanks of explanation. i believed that the rules of GPL affects everyone including the programmer who wrote the code. This is good as with programs that doesn't have huge list of authors, it is still possible to get away from GPL. Would be nice to see someday that term "Free software" will only mean free software, not "free software but..." From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 22:15:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995C9106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:15:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root1101@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11C368FC0C for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:15:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so1585084lbo.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:15:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3fIIAU/NYegFvGCq9LLTnhl9QZnNxoF5KcW0Uv/kZNw=; b=s7zVFIKBgLa5rTZTRNXKPOeoi4wm6fIykPBJj+cDBzJTO6egUQFmuCNPWN0IUF7dpv aNhxG+bMzt1oCT8tLOdvSPksrWAwLl2/3x22++8P1mlk3rQFbVWFUgxSn3h1lF/6ZtzS CY0rN2yxJPN0kYEib5zRmIjCK8/VvuY+b+OA4/wRzZaodiQ45yTXx0ZQXhmd5/Ik1tGF Hi3Mz9EFAATDdYRDghqQMa/oHt2xdtmyDFVbhDxGdLOBaXk1OlYREYpclxF/zywSPNhy S5EHsFgbQP+WcfVB3UvmfDftKM5J+f6+o1wi/TvDKrAu+Va3JgL8ZHjPJGkyhEpdI59Z AHTA== Received: by 10.152.108.38 with SMTP id hh6mr18575088lab.28.1340230520756; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (ppp91-79-219-123.pppoe.mtu-net.ru. [91.79.219.123]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id sy1sm42131597lab.13.2012.06.20.15.15.18 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:15:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE24BC0.3020909@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 02:16:32 +0400 From: =?UTF-8?B?0JXQstCz0LXQvdC40Lkg0JvQsNC60YLQsNC90L7Qsg==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120420 Thunderbird/10.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <4FE1FD18.7010101@gmail.com> <20120620211417.GC26703@hemlock.hydra> In-Reply-To: <20120620211417.GC26703@hemlock.hydra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:15:22 -0000 21.06.2012 01:14, Chad Perrin пиŃет: > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 08:40:56PM +0400, Евгений Лактанов wrote: >> 20.06.2012 18:47, Mark Felder пиŃет: >>> On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:43:14 -0500, Wojciech Puchar >>> wrote: >>>> [attribution lost by Wojciech Puchar and I'm too lazy to check] >>>>> Why not make FreeBSD better for everyone by cooperating with the >>>>> CLANG project? >>>> because we already have great compiler - GCC. In spite of using GPL >>>> licence. >>> GCC performs well, but it is a very messy undocumented codebase which >>> makes maintaining it a nightmare. Just ask Google -- you'll find many >>> others saying the same thing. It would take MORE work to get FreeBSD >>> devs up to speed on the GCC codebase to add the features we want than >>> it is to cooperate with the CLANG community and help them make their >>> compiler better than GCC in every test case. >> It is the classic developer/user argument. It is also stupid. The user >> side simply doesn't have the same needs, it can't understand how >> freaking hard it is sometimes to debug a large and complex program in a >> badly documented environment or worse with undocumented features. If it >> works faster ergo it is better - that is the only criteria to really >> have a meaning to a user. > It's bikeshed painting. Someone who doesn't understand the many factors > that apply, and doesn't even *want* to know, picks one thing he thinks he > understands and argues about it in an attempt to make the entire project > change course. > > Well, dammit, I *like* blue, and he can take his bucket of red paint home > with him to paint his *own* bikeshed. > Haven't heard it described like this, but appropriate. Also the Danth's law applies always) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 22:18:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E7F01065670 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:18:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D9D8FC15 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:18:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-40-10.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.40.10]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B79E23D349; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:18:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q5KMI9aR004984; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:18:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:18:09 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Wojciech Puchar Message-Id: <20120621001809.da9ce415.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> <20120620224030.1a0dc3b4.freebsd@edvax.de> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Questions , Antonio Olivares Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:18:17 -0000 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:57:17 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar wrote: > from what i know (still, possibly incorrent) if i am hired as a programmer > and write a program, this program belong to the company and i couldn't use > it everywhere at least officially. That is highly debatable and mostly subject to the content of your programmer's contract. In most cases, one would assume that by receiving a payment, you give the "rights of creator" to that company. But it doesn't neccessarily have to be the case! Imagine a photographer who takes photos of you, e. g. for a new passport. You pay the photographer for the developed (today: printed) photos you receive, for example 4 or 6 pieces. You do _not_ obtain the "right regarding the image" by that payment. The photographer (as the creator of the image) still owns it. You can buy it separately. (At least this is the case here in Germany according to the law.) To translate this to a programmer's job: You're being paid to write a program for a customer. You deliver the program. That's what you are paid for. Still the source code is yours (as _you_ are the creator, no matter who you sold "a copy" to). So I would assume that you can still use the program for further projects that run independently from that customer. EXCEPT - of course, there is a contract specifying otherwise. > So - if authors of any project, no matter how numerous, will all > without exception agree that they want to get rid of GPL, then - they > always can turn it to BSD > licenced ? am i right? A general consensus of the issuers of the license ("continuous licensing") could maybe do that, I assume. Still there would be the possibility to create a fork (common means in open source when something needs to be changed that doesn't go well with "mainstream"), and that fork could keep the old license. Now there are two independent projects. BUT - as everyone is free to obtain, modify and re-issue GPL source code, I'm not sure such a consensus could be reached. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 22:25:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF0E11065675 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:25:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 172408FC19 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:25:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KMPNNW001689; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:25:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KMPMwn001686; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:25:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:25:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Polytropon In-Reply-To: <20120621001809.da9ce415.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> <20120620224030.1a0dc3b4.freebsd@edvax.de> <20120621001809.da9ce415.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:25:23 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions , Antonio Olivares Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:25:28 -0000 > You're being paid to write a program for a customer. You i don't talk that case, but if i am hired to write some part of program as an employer in software company. >> So - if authors of any project, no matter how numerous, will all >> without exception agree that they want to get rid of GPL, then - they >> always can turn it to BSD >> licenced ? am i right? > > A general consensus of the issuers of the license ("continuous > licensing") could maybe do that, I assume. Still there would > be the possibility to create a fork (common means in open source > when something needs to be changed that doesn't go well with > "mainstream"), and that fork could keep the old license. Now > there are two independent projects. that is fine. > > BUT - as everyone is free to obtain, modify and re-issue GPL > source code, I'm not sure such a consensus could be reached. by creating a BSD licenced fork - constructed from parts written by all developers that - as you said - have personal right to their code. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 22:26:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D2A1065673 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:26:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D1FF8FC26 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:26:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KMQV4F001698; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:26:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KMQV6W001695; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:26:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:26:31 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chad Perrin In-Reply-To: <20120620211103.GB26703@hemlock.hydra> Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120620211103.GB26703@hemlock.hydra> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:26:31 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:26:40 -0000 >> the answer. > > I'll try to help out, here. > > Christer Solskogen: I think the reason that is so very important to > Wojciech Puchar is the fact that he is incapable of imagining: > > 1. other concerns that might apply > > 2. that things appear highly likely to change > > 3. that a negligible performance difference is . . . negligible > > I'm pretty sure he's not running compute clusters on FreeBSD, after all. > i would recommend you to take more care about yourself, and not me. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 22:31:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95B0C106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:31:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0743E8FC0A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:31:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5KMV2PI001728; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:31:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5KMV27w001725; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:31:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:31:02 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Walter Hurry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:31:02 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No sound in Flash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:31:06 -0000 > FreeBSD 9 (x86_64). > > Sorry if this is a FAQ, but I have googled assiduously and found nothing > useful. > > I have installed Flash, following the instructions in the handbook. Flash is adobe product and they don't provide binaries for FreeBSD, at least they didn't. if you really need flash, you may install gnash from ports. not fully capable but usually works, and doesn't need linux emulator and closed source code. Flash it not a standard. If you want flash mostly to view youtube use youtube-dl from ports. xpi-unplug plugin for firefox (also in ports) often helps with pages that have movies embedded with player. The side effect of using both tools would be having all movies actually downloaded - so you will actually HAVE that movies. downloaded movies play fine with mplayer. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 22:34:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5987C106566B for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:34:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A8C88FC12 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:34:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-40-10.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.40.10]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 360EB189A5; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:33:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q5KMXZZW005076; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:33:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:33:35 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Wojciech Puchar Message-Id: <20120621003335.ce64ea73.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <4FCF9333.70201@speakeasy.org> <20120619205225.21d6709f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20f61898ce668c96f8882981cf8e24f6@remailer.privacy.at> <4FE1AD27.8000704@gmail.com> <1340192731894-5720039.post@n5.nabble.com> <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> <20120620224030.1a0dc3b4.freebsd@edvax.de> <20120621001809.da9ce415.freebsd@edvax.de> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Questions , Antonio Olivares Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:34:19 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:25:22 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > You're being paid to write a program for a customer. You > > i don't talk that case, but if i am hired to write some part of program as > an employer in software company. Sorry, I misread the situation. In this case I assume that any half-baked employer will have a specific clause in the contract that will cause that all your creations will be attributed to the employer immediately, the wage being an act of selling your intellectual property (if this term applies here, not sure, it's widely stressed) to the employer who becomes the new "owner" and "creator on behalf". It's also possible that similar content can be present in a contract between client and customer (just like between employer and employee). I highly assume that if such a clause is _not_ present, the "natural and normal interpretation" appears, i. e. you are the creator, copyright is yours. Even if it sounds strange, it still can apply in an employment setting. But as I said, contracts and local law may have some regulations that applies. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 20 22:36:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04C26106564A for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:36:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root1101@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66FA58FC15 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:36:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so1612733lbo.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:36:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xlHmbcPPKhFOBf2RMlXfb6JQVKtLLxIohgMDl+oSXDQ=; b=jhNWGFU7GKedHxHUUGg0FsotfJrxaciktAEB6c0HZSB3VFNWmjPbQaJbHb6b33W5ND jMutly18cILU7eO30Op3pcsSuZPLjP/xnoD4ITobaR9GjzRzxaj5p5C6w1h3ZSb7wUm8 irRcnXYNioHxybD8p+oYIIoC95v5yF/AaYdLfeO15GlnakYP1lPcBe8+u/f1cZlgKME5 vM9XyygY2FbqbK/Elp9qiNC2cCrdCM2FlsRxaeJ9DgMWq6R/SIUf9Csu1gBvwAZ9F5Hl davnicRARyWlR3I97qlYw6RRuS3eFq5J5I6su6KKXMnmeieSv+zR1Hk8olILw6LmoLDi zTHw== Received: by 10.152.131.68 with SMTP id ok4mr24005090lab.47.1340231812308; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:36:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (ppp91-79-219-123.pppoe.mtu-net.ru. [91.79.219.123]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d3sm17121350lbh.3.2012.06.20.15.36.50 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:36:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE250CC.9090205@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 02:38:04 +0400 From: =?UTF-8?B?0JXQstCz0LXQvdC40Lkg0JvQsNC60YLQsNC90L7Qsg==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120420 Thunderbird/10.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120620211103.GB26703@hemlock.hydra> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:36:54 -0000 21.06.2012 02:26, Wojciech Puchar пиŃет: >>> the answer. >> >> I'll try to help out, here. >> >> Christer Solskogen: I think the reason that is so very important to >> Wojciech Puchar is the fact that he is incapable of imagining: >> >> 1. other concerns that might apply >> >> 2. that things appear highly likely to change >> >> 3. that a negligible performance difference is . . . negligible >> >> I'm pretty sure he's not running compute clusters on FreeBSD, after all. >> > i would recommend you to take more care about yourself, and not me. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Watch out, we got a badass over here From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 00:21:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5311106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:21:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from czsq888@163.com) Received: from sam.nabble.com (sam.nabble.com [216.139.236.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B09258FC15 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:21:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ShV9c-0003sl-BQ for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:21:44 -0700 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:21:44 -0700 (PDT) From: sw2wolf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1340238104348-5720280.post@n5.nabble.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: No sound in my FreeBSD 9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:21:45 -0000 $uname -a FreeBSD mybsd.zsoft.com 9.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE #0: Tue Jan 3 07:15:25 UTC 2012 =20 root@obrian.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC i386 $sudo sysctl -w hw.snd.verbose=3D2 $cat /dev/sndstat=20 FreeBSD Audio Driver (newpcm: 32bit 2009061500/i386) Installed devices: pcm0: at io 0xde081000, 0xde082000 irq 17 bufsz 1638= 4=20 (1p:1v/1r:1v) default snddev flags=3D0x2e2 [pcm0:play:dsp0.p0]: spd 48000, fmt 0x00200010, flags 0x00002100, 0x00000004 interrupts 44126, underruns 0, feed 44126, ready 0 [b:4096/2048/2|bs:4096/2048/2] channel flags=3D0x2100 {userland} -> feeder_mixer(0x00200010) -> {hardware} pcm0:play:dsp0.p0[pcm0:virtual:dsp0.vp0]: spd 44100/48000, fmt 0x00200010, flags 0x10000000, 0x00000029 interrupts 0, underruns 0, feed 0, ready 0 [b:0/0/0|bs:65536/2048/32] channel flags=3D0x10000000 {userland} -> feeder_root(0x00200010) -> feeder_volume(0x00200010) -> feeder_rate(0x00200010 q:1 44100 -> 48000) -> {hardware} [pcm0:record:dsp0.r0]: spd 48000, fmt 0x00200010, flags 0x00002100, 0x00000005 interrupts 0, overruns 0, feed 0, hfree 4096, sfree 4096 [b:4096/2048/2|bs:4096/2048/2] channel flags=3D0x2100 {hardware} -> feeder_root(0x00200010) -> feeder_mixer(0x00200010) -= > {userland} pcm0:record:dsp0.r0[pcm0:virtual:dsp0.vr0]: spd 8000, fmt 0x00100008, flags 0x10000000, 0x00000000 interrupts 0, overruns 0, feed 0, hfree 0, sfree 0 [b:0/0/0|bs:0/0/0] channel flags=3D0x10000000 {hardware} -> feeder_root(0x00000000) -> {userland} $mixer Mixer vol is currently set to 75:75 Mixer pcm is currently set to 75:75 Mixer speaker is currently set to 75:75 Mixer line is currently set to 75:75 Mixer mic is currently set to 0:0 Mixer cd is currently set to 75:75 Mixer rec is currently set to 75:75 Mixer igain is currently set to 0:0 Mixer line1 is currently set to 75:75 Mixer phin is currently set to 0:0 $pciconf -lv | grep -i audio device =3D '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) AC'97 Audio Controller' subclass =3D audio subclass =3D audio $dmesg | grep -i audio pci1: at device 0.0 (no driver attached) However the sound is OK using XP on the same box (so the sound card has no problem) $gpart show ada0 =3D> 63 39874304 ada0 MBR (19G) 63 19534977 1 !12 [active] (9.3G) 19535040 20338668 2 freebsd (9.7G) 39873708 659 - free - (329k) The GENERIC kernel has loaded driver( snd_ich ), but i can hear nothing. Any suggestion is appreciated! ----- e^(=CF=80.i) + 1 =3D 0 -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/No-sound= -in-my-FreeBSD-9-tp5720280.html Sent from the freebsd-questions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 00:48:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E11891065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:48:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amvandemore@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 730998FC21 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:48:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so68986wer.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:48:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=ahgS122GpT/uAglB4qvE+Q3nqxZ+ex6vFGizNNAX3Ns=; b=QHpy2fgAQTmdZb7iA4npt6Dj0phh25eGWiqWppgU2/sK5goyp9mwV+SC9izb9klA3q VnXwdwVWYbOCPg7OCXf1OY4OAPYfaN7Sibx+t4kg4Nc3GY9Rsa82LBD7ZNUiqwG0WYmu wTavea1bVpuKYcBukZM9mY5iVIhICORVBk6UqyXHcRUbDFhnRovXC+JysOrJh4kDfrUt x5hEctQ6VmpC4ADfYpLSZSJKs6yoB83Xm8JU6/l71zSYVhOU2q6G9qbBu72RohQP99a4 rhGCPjlchHBBX0k23aYRXHyMnqhD14kV6+frwdCSmOPe6kak9s5vbs/I2TY4qrnBwlUr YXTQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.98.39 with SMTP id ef7mr15687910wib.21.1340239685397; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.88.155 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:48:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1340238104348-5720280.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1340238104348-5720280.post@n5.nabble.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:48:05 -0500 Message-ID: From: Adam Vande More To: sw2wolf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No sound in my FreeBSD 9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:48:07 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:21 PM, sw2wolf wrote: > > pci1: at device 0.0 (no driver attached) > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/sound-setup.html -- Adam Vande More From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 00:54:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 442A1106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:54:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C4CB8FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:54:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5DCBD138.dip.t-dialin.net [93.203.209.56]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5L0sSY3026105; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:54:29 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5L0sEgH099151; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 02:54:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5L0s2O5071935; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 02:54:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201206210054.q5L0s2O5071935@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Polytropon From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:18:09 +0200." <20120621001809.da9ce415.freebsd@edvax.de> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 02:54:02 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:54:37 -0000 Hi Polytropon, cc questions@ (No CC Wojciech P. as my local filters drop text from him ) > To translate this to a programmer's job: > > You're being paid to write a program for a customer. You > deliver the program. That's what you are paid for. Still > the source code is yours (as _you_ are the creator, no > matter who you sold "a copy" to). So I would assume that > you can still use the program for further projects that > run independently from that customer. > > EXCEPT - of course, there is a contract specifying otherwise. There's often legal (copyright, patents, etc) discussions on FreeBSD lists, maybe we should have a legal@freebsd.org list on http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo There's 193 countries in the United Nations http://www.un.org/en/members/growth.shtml Some have different laws even within one country: In UK, England & Scotland have different contract law: http://www.inhouselawyer.co.uk/index.php/scotland-home/8094-scots-and-english-contract-law-false-friends Decades back USA employees by default retained more patent &/or maybe copyright rights than UK employees. In UK by default it went to employer. But if a USA employer put a clause in to over- ride the default ? ... IANAL = I Am Not A Lawyer etc. German employee law I don't know. I've always been freelance. Tip: Often mentioning the idea at the beginnning of contracts, technical project directors are happy to ask their legal dept. to add a simple clause they draft themselves along the lines of eg: Customer has exclusive rights to code written just for project. Programmer can keep & publish general code written or enhanced for general tools not exclusively for project. Customer can keep & use a copy of tools. Best to suggest such ideas at the beginning not end of projects. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 01:54:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40EFC106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 01:54:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from modulok@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f51.google.com (mail-qa0-f51.google.com [209.85.216.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00A508FC1B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 01:54:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qaea16 with SMTP id a16so1114166qae.17 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:54:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=cqA/ShVEwAztrd1N2GMu9crTklrVP9hF0RMAl1+Rg4g=; b=fCSDjlsQE95vVZHekPS1i5RSnvoW5CUyLMLhsuKfvJG8JSJAnWUXBRctcNcbFy0CIg VscScso2/C68jOkM/pwWrtggzozjQe3lDTXHP5bQbOU9tgeahshdcjvUKQm0EApFV0CP ucveUzHJOgOPvOTz6J6Oiitj0dsH7WZzt+mcH3biFmj8CezLglpRIWOZ3nzSH4j96LbY NEk4mgWNRicBzuu5rJrSaYQzIaAywnRpJM6NdNfaEuW3Blh1ub+Jcd1mF0kLPzcRrJn0 /3g5Cc4aH+c2uyWSxfCdAZ64397w0V/boRogU+3FOC2k6RmwYI8xQaJHEYtApLVMsd9R 4tOQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.136.136 with SMTP id r8mr13186993qct.22.1340243667048; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.227.5 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:54:27 -0600 Message-ID: From: Modulok To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: OT: Robotics or embedded or hardware programming... what is this called? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 01:54:28 -0000 List, Sorry for the off-topic post. There are a lot of technically adept people on this list, so I thought I'd try my luck here: I want to get started programming for hardware. Motors, sensors, actuators, etc. I have a programming background, (python, PHP, C++) but no experience with code that drives hardware. (Motors, sensors, etc.) I *don't* want closed-source "kit robots" where the point is to build the robot the book and thats it. I also don't want ladder logic-based PMC's. Some kind of micro-controller that runs a *nix flavor (or a BSD flavor!) would be great! (If that's what I need.) Basically, I want to do stuff like "if input1() is True then apply_voltage_on_output3()", etc. Build my own traffic light, coffee maker, mars rover, automatic-plant waterer, whatever. What do you call this? Embedded programming? Generic hardware programming? Robotics programming? Are there prefabricated, standard embedded boards and hardware specs that play together like PC parts do? In short, I don't even know where to start. Even general pointers to books/websites would be great. Once I know what it's called I can google much more effectively ;) Thanks! -Modulok- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 01:56:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FA73106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 01:56:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F2908FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 01:56:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5L1v6qE030445 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:57:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:57:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206210157.q5L1v6qE030445@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20120621003335.ce64ea73.freebsd@edvax.de> Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 01:56:59 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 20 17:37:45 2012 > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:33:35 +0200 > From: Polytropon > To: Wojciech Puchar > Cc: FreeBSD Questions , > Antonio Olivares > Subject: Re: Why Clang > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:25:22 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > You're being paid to write a program for a customer. You > > > > i don't talk that case, but if i am hired to write some part of program as > > an employer in software company. > > Sorry, I misread the situation. > This is a situation addressed _specifically_ in Berne Convention copyright law, under the heading of 'work done for hire'. For _anything_ that falls under the 'work done for hire' clause(s), copyright (and _title_) reses with the party who 'hired' the work done. Work done by a 'contractor' under a 'purchase of services' contract is generally _not_ 'work done for hire' (although it -may- be, depending on the language of the contract), and thus, genenrall, copyright, etc. remains with the person who did the work, -- *unless* the contract specifies otherwise. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 02:14:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 400DE106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 02:14:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@m.gmane.org) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB2428FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 02:14:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ShWv8-0007dW-Od for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:14:54 +0200 Received: from cpc3-walt15-2-0-cust148.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com ([86.21.186.149]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:14:54 +0200 Received: from walterhurry by cpc3-walt15-2-0-cust148.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:14:54 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Walter Hurry Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 02:14:43 +0000 (UTC) Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: cpc3-walt15-2-0-cust148.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com User-Agent: Pan/0.135 (Tomorrow I'll Wake Up and Scald Myself with Tea; GIT 30dc37b master) Subject: Re: No sound in Flash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 02:14:57 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:31:02 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> FreeBSD 9 (x86_64). >> >> Sorry if this is a FAQ, but I have googled assiduously and found >> nothing useful. >> >> I have installed Flash, following the instructions in the handbook. > Flash is adobe product and they don't provide binaries for FreeBSD, at > least they didn't. > > if you really need flash, you may install gnash from ports. not fully > capable but usually works, and doesn't need linux emulator and closed > source code. > Thanks for the advice about gnash! I've installed it, and removed nspluginwrapper and all the linux stuff. It seems to work perfectly for my purposes. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 02:58:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320D9106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 02:58:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eam1edward@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 017CB8FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 02:58:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so222159dad.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:58:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jWO0b/tNeZXQN0rZESA/7elquddhOcYO785uL3x2fAc=; b=pFpNTvKiMAQ5390dTa2oKwbIh0x3Duu9tXYPCv1bBNxGtFi9T1jCg9tFvMoIQqbjK1 hP0PlRzO/T4ymt4GTB8fjXWnE6JdVv2Zzrr9C6DSR+l3TRAE95b/jjfGUTPjal2iwL2n EDoFuHmzKJc6xSabCmD1WFboUqGDr5i3CEJJJGwMFmW6JbgGXOPuZilnkvyoxirSy7/z ZSRS/Os87oO3JNV8HfOKjhmMwzA/ZgMsD0MCQ6TPIldyCCG68kKf1EZs0mBVB0OHlX1A Tjh3WLNmdv+DDDAQpVph3805W2KbQrRrRXKXTcI3QyqwrYg6b7ujCRZxu1sr2tW+9xwP ZNCQ== Received: by 10.68.227.163 with SMTP id sb3mr84696365pbc.74.1340247518497; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([174.134.109.226]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id wk3sm34171670pbc.21.2012.06.20.19.58.36 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE28F05.9010703@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:03:33 -0700 From: Edward M User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120605 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: OT: Robotics or embedded or hardware programming... what is this called? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 02:58:39 -0000 On 06/20/2012 06:54 PM, Modulok wrote: > Even general pointers to books/websites would be great. Once I know what it's > called I can google much more effectively Mars rover is robotic/embedded. I am using this site myself. http://www.societyofrobots.com/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 03:28:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E7D5106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:28:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gobble.wa@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DA0D8FC14 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:28:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so1933662lbo.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:28:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=86cN2kIltLNgvobfJ5z1OUjD0FsLwab3Fi964KpykLk=; b=HlXhHxYceKNoYL9Pbo9KbLuDlGWyuTwVdcmaC3VdwZAtD9dPwfGEhwOosNZcDLVQp1 VoK2aJwTtPuJP8rTs8wjxP5StUJgTOzNx2ghFth7LoARiIE/wRbbPd5v15KPcV686FBQ cL29N3ISC7WD16W1c0OgKc0W1Q+m+1Gnnu8DAVdquKvfmdKiVz9h1ojuqrvE2xAq6Jib oyPyQIjb6db45iUBAat5wkqSZrs3WMI/rpCJ6xvCXHscXFxxTLeXeDbNrYJAOzIY6YiU Slhi0luoISdHdanXIOLCCEY7qiphHW96hmEuGhwoCACTgacEnAPBxiv9WbbLO1CfG9z8 TsiQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.145.42 with SMTP id sr10mr24926951lab.16.1340249331515; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:28:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.12.7 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:28:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:28:51 -0700 Message-ID: From: Waitman Gobble To: Lynn Steven Killingsworth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Need latest xorg X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:28:54 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Matthias Gamsjager wrote: > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Lynn Steven Killingsworth < > blue.seahorse.syndicate@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I don't seem to have generated much comment. > > > > I suspect you are thinking as I do that if your servers don't immediately > > download then their is a bandit on my Internet line?? > > > > > > > > > > > Newer AMD videocards and Freebsd is just pure pain. Dont think the newer > xorg will change much. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Hi, Have you considered installing packages? I have a daily sync repo mirror of amd64 and i386 pkgs (Latest/Current) if you experience difficulty accessing the FTP servers. lemme know. Unfortunately I don't have everything mirrored at this time, and not sure how they would fly on 9-x :) Also latest xorg runs great with my AMD HD 6620G, obviously a different class than your AMD HD 7950 but I suppose it could also be considered a 'newer card', first released June 14, 2011, about 6 months before the 7950. Not sure when the cut-off date is. Waitman Gobble San Jose California USA From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 03:43:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A49106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:43:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amvandemore@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3D488FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:43:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so1948302lbo.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:42:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=aFVotCsUlwN+MpI+8X2ihHxaVPNYO/S1PHffbLQuJhs=; b=LR1uo1ik7s9DnBneZvECzdCXxchv8q+Y0QYw3f/0oi8abNfuigamD+E2WD20oMTEko PfL1MD2OyGDjwPLNhytKK8FNBa6iV9W+Rt3VcakZ44n4C26fgE3mOEVTy+F6oTT1usTR XEBTmMD1JL0m+myJtguGHBrP8G1lM3Fs5pM+bwQhCz7kwR0Klidp/zg7N1hcJ/mIhb2Z jMwxYjiwTkHbxKDRmZBbbfQ47LH9qOPGcbrCW7uUYTGGb8VI/nF4AzF0Q/wHZh/tSAhc /LxlxDK1dRC7cPUMS+DTIlgwFmY2PMNdXqfT8OEpSsGKixnxzQ4M0pDI6tTA+AySxPO+ kN7A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.122.9 with SMTP id lo9mr10790901lab.41.1340250179806; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.26.132 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:42:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:42:59 -0500 Message-ID: From: Adam Vande More To: Lynn Steven Killingsworth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Need latest xorg X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:43:01 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Lynn Steven Killingsworth < blue.seahorse.syndicate@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi FreeBSD - > > I have an AMD HD 7950 video card so I am trying to install the latest > FreeBSD xorg available (7.5.2) for an updated driver. > > When I start make the install immediately stops at MesaLib-7.6.1.tar.gz. > I can restart it on a primary using the location given then after a short > time the install stops at /x11/9menu (/9menu-1.8.shar.gz) I can also > attempt to restart this on a couple of servers but after a trip around the > world my install still stops at /x11/9menu Post the error messages so we can tell what is going on instead of what you think is going on. A few tips: * Use a port managament tool, preferably portmaster. * set RANDOMIZE_MASTER_SITES in /etc/make.conf to force trying different download locations. * You may be interested in sysutils/fastest_cvsup -- Adam Vande More From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 03:56:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D22FD1065673 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:56:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bah@bananmonarki.se) Received: from feeder.usenet4all.se (1-1-1-38a.far.sth.bostream.se [82.182.32.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4770C8FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:56:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kw.news4all.se (c80-217-70-175.bredband.comhem.se [80.217.70.175]) by feeder.usenet4all.se (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5L3uZfL038560; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:56:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from bah@bananmonarki.se) Message-ID: <4FE29B16.5060005@bananmonarki.se> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:55:02 +0200 From: Bernt Hansson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120611 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Demelier References: <4FDA0B5E.4090901@gmail.com> <4FDAAF5E.4040500@gmail.com> <4FDAECF8.4080007@gmail.com> <4FDB1BB0.8060800@bananmonarki.se> <4FDF7326.1080201@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4FDF7326.1080201@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No surround sound with Creative SB Live! card X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:56:44 -0000 2012-06-18 20:27, David Demelier skrev: > On 15/06/2012 13:25, Bernt Hansson wrote: >> On 2012-06-15 10:06, David Demelier wrote: >>> On 15/06/2012 05:43, Edward M wrote: >>>> On 06/14/2012 09:03 AM, David Demelier wrote: >>>>> I have an old SB Live! card with a 5.1 speaker set, but i can't get >>>>> sound from center and rear speakers with mplayer. >>>>> >>>>> I'm using the snd_emu10kx driver and when I try to play a DVD I get >>>>> sound only through the front speakers (and LFE) like a 2.1 >>>>> >>>>> Adding -channels 6 to the mplayer args does not help. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Sounds like the DVD surround audio is encoded in AC-3 Dolby Digital or >>>> DTS. So a decorder is needed. >>>> >>> >>> That's what mplayer says: >>> >>> ========================================================================== >>> >>> >>> Opening audio decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg/libavcodec audio decoders >>> AUDIO: 48000 Hz, 6 ch, s16le, 448.0 kbit/9.72% (ratio: 56000->576000) >>> Selected audio codec: [ffac3] afm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg AC-3) >>> ========================================================================== >>> >>> >>> AO: [oss] 48000Hz 6ch s16le (2 bytes per sample) >>> >>> What do you mean by "a decoder is needed"? >> >> Have you tried vlc or xine? > > It does not work with VLC too, do you need to tweak some settings? Try $ vlc filename I've tried a file that gave this error [0x2bb4b43c] main decoder error: no suitable decoder module for fourcc `mp4v'. VLC probably does not support this sound or video format. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 04:47:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1C53106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:47:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bah@bananmonarki.se) Received: from feeder.usenet4all.se (1-1-1-38a.far.sth.bostream.se [82.182.32.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70A4D8FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:47:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kw.news4all.se (c80-217-70-175.bredband.comhem.se [80.217.70.175]) by feeder.usenet4all.se (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5L4lrJU039967; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:47:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from bah@bananmonarki.se) Message-ID: <4FE2A71C.8020503@bananmonarki.se> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:46:20 +0200 From: Bernt Hansson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120611 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Modulok References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: OT: Robotics or embedded or hardware programming... what is this called? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:47:56 -0000 2012-06-21 03:54, Modulok skrev: > List, > > Sorry for the off-topic post. There are a lot of technically adept people on > this list, so I thought I'd try my luck here: > > I want to get started programming for hardware. Motors, sensors, actuators, etc. > I have a programming background, (python, PHP, C++) but no experience with code > that drives hardware. (Motors, sensors, etc.) > > I *don't* want closed-source "kit robots" where the point is to build the robot > the book and thats it. I also don't want ladder logic-based PMC's. Some kind of > micro-controller that runs a *nix flavor (or a BSD flavor!) would be great! (If > that's what I need.) Basically, I want to do stuff like "if input1() is True > then apply_voltage_on_output3()", etc. Build my own traffic light, coffee > maker, mars rover, automatic-plant waterer, whatever. > > What do you call this? Embedded programming? Generic hardware programming? > Robotics programming? Are there prefabricated, standard embedded boards and > hardware specs that play together like PC parts do? In short, I don't even know > where to start. > > Even general pointers to books/websites would be great. Once I know what it's > called I can google much more effectively ;) > > Thanks! > -Modulok- That ballpark is quite large. I'll give you some links http://www.linuxcnc.org/ http://arduino.cc/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 06:05:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37088106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:05:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CC368FC15 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:05:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5L64sss002912; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:04:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5L64sFJ002909; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:04:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:04:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Modulok In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:04:54 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: OT: Robotics or embedded or hardware programming... what is this called? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:05:05 -0000 > I want to get started programming for hardware. Motors, sensors, actuators, etc. > I have a programming background, (python, PHP, C++) but no experience with code > that drives hardware. (Motors, sensors, etc.) add "--" to your language list so first 2 would disappear and third will become C. > I *don't* want closed-source "kit robots" where the point is to build the robot > the book and thats it. I also don't want ladder logic-based PMC's. Some kind of > micro-controller that runs a *nix flavor (or a BSD flavor!) would be great! (If Why do you want something like microcontroller to run any OS? > What do you call this? Embedded programming? Generic hardware programming? running unix on microcontroller-style hardware is what i call nonsense. Writing your program that runs from first executed instruction is what i call normal programming of such devices. The proper way is to 1) buy a microcontrooler chip, make your hardware using it, possibly buy already made boards. microcontrollers are <1$, some more capable 32-bit ones (ARM compatible usually, some are MIPS) for 2-3$. 2) throw away all included libraries because they are mostly mess. prepare something that can be used as crt0.s Better write it yourself in assembly. shouldn't be larger than 5 instructions anyway, a bit more if ARM interrupt vectors are needed to be filled. Some assembly knowledge is very useful, in spite of writing most in C. 3) read documentation. All embedded devices (like A/D converters, PWM generators etc.) are described. With 32-bit micros start from "memory MAP" chapter and then device description. You will just find out at what address your peripheral is accessible. 4) lets say for example that 32 GPIO pins are accessible at address 0x40001000 for setting ports, 0x40002000 for resetting ports, 0x40003000 for reading out value, and 0x40004000 for setting direction (input/output). #define GPIO0_SET ((int*)0x40001000) #define GPIO0_RESET ((int*)0x40002000) #define GPIO0_READ ((int*)0x40003000) #define GPIO0_DIR ((int*)0x40004000) 5) use it in your program. *GPIO0_DIR=0xFFFFFFFF; //sets all pins to output *GPIO0_SET=0xAAAAAAAA; //sets every other pin to 1 *GPIO0_RESET=0x55555555; //set the rest to 0 if you have questions send it privately. microcontrollers are wrong place for unix system and it's overcomplexity relatively to the task. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 06:05:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629C81065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:05:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C77E58FC18 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:05:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5L65lCO002925; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:05:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5L65lUS002922; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:05:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:05:47 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Walter Hurry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:05:48 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No sound in Flash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:05:51 -0000 >> >> if you really need flash, you may install gnash from ports. not fully >> capable but usually works, and doesn't need linux emulator and closed >> source code. >> > > Thanks for the advice about gnash! I've installed it, and removed > nspluginwrapper and all the linux stuff. > > It seems to work perfectly for my purposes. > not really perfect but anyway i don't feel i lost something seeing a site that cannot work without flash. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 06:34:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38A3B1065672 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:34:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ndhertbsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E965F8FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:34:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so208330ghb.13 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:34:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=e6IX1bNw+djSIeDFXdTHfGLGe2SRfLBXDWQ2LmCps4M=; b=inhXVETbhy+SG/dWVdu4Zz52IRlfdixWbcfdmr4kkXSwE5JNhdlrCyAb5XhB7qkgah bQEG3CJAULe0PRJxFtDkFyTppDyiohbHNtfv9DUKpUwiCTtlJAnPkr49ODr7XLJXG+sc TriSSe6rIyKwcYfy6KqGbtNSvBKm3N/Wd2/lc8n0Ps4Ut6ipOlzmmB4uNqH6tbOkcRO3 fNqaXTuCR1QrvaABTCF9iZ3SEaplZWqQOmJyEAOf53Nzj4+0CaUA56Q2fLWNuh1lfH9X lrjsXPYnBjsfXCTokJpK7sqWUQ2Tey9G2+D96Xs6aKSjQnUuvFgNRAQg6cccG8Yg1ytO 3tDA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.157.194 with SMTP id wo2mr6573341igb.72.1340260475258; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.246.9 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:34:35 +0200 Message-ID: From: n dhert To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: apache PHP suhosin load X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:34:36 -0000 On FreeBSD 8.3 I have apache22 web server with PHP. PHP is PHP52 for compatibility with existing applications, but the most recent version in the php52 branch $ php --version PHP 5.2.17 with Suhosin-Patch 0.9.7 (cli) (built: May 7 2012 08:45:58) >From time to time, I notice in a top output, that a huge number of httpd daemons are being started, making the load rapidly increase to levels of 5, 10, 15, ... and very slow interactive respons ... Stopping apache makes the load rapidly decrease to a normal level. I noticed at the console, at stopping apache, several messages such as Jun 14 09:12:20 macos kernel: Jun 14 09:12:20 macos suhosin[28824]: ALERT - canary mismatch on efree() - heap overflow detected (attacker 'REMOTE_ADDR not set', file '/home/wins/win/win/www/wiki/mediawiki-1.16.0/includes/AutoLoader.php', line 654) (the file value differs, but it's always "suhosin .. canany mismatch - heap overflow detected") My PHP has following options set # cd /usr/ports/lang/php52 My PHP has following options set # cd /usr/ports/lang/php52 # make showconfig ===> The following configuration options are available for php52-5.2.17_8: CLI=on: Build CLI version CGI=on: Build CGI version APACHE=on: Build Apache module DEBUG=off: Enable debug SUHOSIN=on: Enable Suhosin protection system (not for jails) MULTIBYTE=off: Enable zend multibyte support IPV6=on: Enable ipv6 support MAILHEAD=off: Enable mail header patch REDIRECT=off: Enable force-cgi-redirect support (CGI only) DISCARD=off: Enable discard-path support (CGI only) FASTCGI=on: Enable fastcgi support (CGI only) FPM=off: Enable fastcgi process manager (CGI only) PATHINFO=on: Enable path-info-check support (CGI only) LINKTHR=off: Link thread lib (for threaded extensions) Is that heap overlow causing the trouble? Has suhosin to do something with it? How to solve? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 07:17:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629BF106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:17:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from christer.solskogen@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14D9A8FC15 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:17:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhq56 with SMTP id 56so223751yhq.17 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:17:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=kmiphSkyXQgEhItYG6EE/cV6uw2Cn6uGHw15A20uVQ0=; b=mjR+c1XpE7NXBdBqsZls84RZEvoEOI+QytdltCtv1hxQyCGtXO5RU26RCEj4E+LIOI f8eVnVhGsJJVmZ/A9hL9nqPpTyD3ZWIl+M7wc0X8D+NLnLfMTH4c9ZqjK2qd4d1rLC2M hZcyKrpUMgV7EWbdRGWHEHtU45qnD/EaPUQniPE5CAlynGTb5ozrAngPvaOHhMtSuM3b MjwIAVrC7tjqwykVTS3CAM3xF8T7fWUGEDsVtBrXWtL9OZuc6UaJ45+MYdSgjjf5kklj m9lskODFsoWVTbvoNJtL1+uHmQVZEboZN3NPEncKbMLlL5QjiwlpmF6NYNWJgy87/sj4 PSOg== Received: by 10.50.161.198 with SMTP id xu6mr6655656igb.40.1340263037334; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:17:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.64.67.233 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:16:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <854D02B1-CA89-4F5E-8773-DB05F2868D74@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120620211103.GB26703@hemlock.hydra> From: Christer Solskogen Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:16:57 +0200 Message-ID: To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: Chad Perrin , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:17:18 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > i would recommend you to take more care about yourself, and not me. You are not in the right position to give advice, young man. -- chs, From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 07:23:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B376F106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:23:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mgamsjager@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39D768FC17 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:23:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so297956wer.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:23:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to; bh=BI155Zxr5K0jo4Ob9zTzp7iq9KYGuvVB4YqT09o5iZA=; b=gGTappqlqog/DbvY19Whzh+XOdBDacWi6w77Y0PqQwHbdCs6FnenSPXrw5vofWO6ip YbbM8BaNGLJESe2rGH6fjJwkGpShsJ4fnR5vaQIokZQKDgGxpJ+QvHSolSq1rT8kJaRX pvUbJu85OFZPvecDoOMv0nkgp90ke/u1gDLzlhKsnKFSLHX6zgeiGHaTSHw4CD3rVvQu sWgWW9aj8gPAyZOa36Ws1Y2PvWYwQnA5b+0P6s8pLEECrMuo39nA0VWCp3+O+6f5C+Vv CPw6nh5/GUQiFk2AdbiGa/ekN4h+0o/akypjR0adm/AdkOBfgA28BfoXLrd2Aw/4j9F9 h8/w== Received: by 10.216.199.1 with SMTP id w1mr2109583wen.19.1340263415875; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.8] (5ED03002.cm-7-1a.dynamic.ziggo.nl. [94.208.48.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g2sm14369658wiz.7.2012.06.21.00.23.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:23:34 -0700 (PDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B206) From: Matthias Gamsjager Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:23:29 +0200 To: Waitman Gobble Cc: Lynn Steven Killingsworth , "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Need latest xorg X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:23:37 -0000 On 21 jun. 2012, at 05:28, Waitman Gobble wrote: > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Matthias Gamsjager = wrote: >=20 >> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Lynn Steven Killingsworth < >> blue.seahorse.syndicate@gmail.com> wrote: >>=20 >>> I don't seem to have generated much comment. >>>=20 >>> I suspect you are thinking as I do that if your servers don't immediatel= y >>> download then their is a bandit on my Internet line?? >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >> Newer AMD videocards and Freebsd is just pure pain. Dont think the newer >> xorg will change much. >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " >> freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Have you considered installing packages? I have a daily sync repo mirror o= f > amd64 and i386 pkgs (Latest/Current) if you experience difficulty accessin= g > the FTP servers. lemme know. Unfortunately I don't have everything mirrore= d > at this time, and not sure how they would fly on 9-x :) >=20 > Also latest xorg runs great with my AMD HD 6620G, obviously a different > class than your AMD HD 7950 but I suppose it could also be considered a > 'newer card', first released June 14, 2011, about 6 months before the 7950= . > Not sure when the cut-off date is. >=20 > Waitman Gobble >=20 Does it run with acceleration?=20= From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 07:32:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A9FC106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:32:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 875BF8FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:32:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so304926wer.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:32:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to :x-gm-message-state; bh=x6LtOMhY0PTAGCdN6qLhr+YhIQPFxSLOqGwnMdvzABY=; b=JAyhkzs85AH5bcnEnqcnmp27UrlaUFSbFm3te6FNy5FWVp0vi7SzKAPd+lXNGpasjv 02MTmdXBC5h7QfYHHqhcoFuP2kmlxhe4YEoyD5IERkLdwxZM211X139ha4MSyAYdiV1u bCn/DMMo10wlVVpv6CmkGw7FuNj5abvx5/2lg9NNlkWmZxXPcxZWYo8swy8SDOgiEAPx P4QnQMEaGA9eGxjPF2MKuA/Y1zyVAPrsDSWBwXWjD4CLlI+vUkwWb1OPR/Nuea2Q3M5r ng46iykHCFoWqEa6BZxNga/vLAaUZDKOC6W0UZQIgBb1XjL17MlKBhG9XEMtC0DaDt/S HuvQ== Received: by 10.180.94.4 with SMTP id cy4mr17854281wib.2.1340263944998; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.54.108.134] ([92.90.16.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fo7sm44375624wib.9.2012.06.21.00.32.23 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:32:24 -0700 (PDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9A405) From: Damien Fleuriot Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:32:18 +0200 To: n dhert X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnE1mOYGcFSfeZ0xI8pGRRzbu6tr+6H+tiEKRhl8L2w62h5GGEF4veQRAssVP8uEWNjz6xe Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: apache PHP suhosin load X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:32:30 -0000 On 21 Jun 2012, at 08:34, n dhert wrote: > On FreeBSD 8.3 I have apache22 web server with PHP. PHP is PHP52 for > compatibility with existing applications, but the most recent version > in the php52 branch > $ php --version > PHP 5.2.17 with Suhosin-Patch 0.9.7 (cli) (built: May 7 2012 08:45:58) >=20 >> =46rom time to time, I notice in a top output, that a huge number of http= d > daemons are being started, making the load rapidly increase to levels of > 5, 10, 15, ... and very slow interactive respons ... >=20 > Stopping apache makes the load rapidly decrease to a normal level. >=20 > I noticed at the console, at stopping apache, several messages such as >=20 > Jun 14 09:12:20 macos kernel: Jun 14 09:12:20 macos suhosin[28824]: ALERT -= > canary mismatch on efree() - heap overflow detected (attacker 'REMOTE_ADDR= > not set', file > '/home/wins/win/win/www/wiki/mediawiki-1.16.0/includes/AutoLoader.php', > line 654) >=20 > (the file value differs, but it's always "suhosin .. canany mismatch > - heap overflow detected") > My PHP has following options set > # cd /usr/ports/lang/php52 >=20 > My PHP has following options set > # cd /usr/ports/lang/php52 > # make showconfig > =3D=3D=3D> The following configuration options are available for php52-5.2= .17_8: > CLI=3Don: Build CLI version > CGI=3Don: Build CGI version > APACHE=3Don: Build Apache module > DEBUG=3Doff: Enable debug > SUHOSIN=3Don: Enable Suhosin protection system (not for jails) > MULTIBYTE=3Doff: Enable zend multibyte support > IPV6=3Don: Enable ipv6 support > MAILHEAD=3Doff: Enable mail header patch > REDIRECT=3Doff: Enable force-cgi-redirect support (CGI only) > DISCARD=3Doff: Enable discard-path support (CGI only) > FASTCGI=3Don: Enable fastcgi support (CGI only) > FPM=3Doff: Enable fastcgi process manager (CGI only) > PATHINFO=3Don: Enable path-info-check support (CGI only) > LINKTHR=3Doff: Link thread lib (for threaded extensions) >=20 > Is that heap overlow causing the trouble? Has suhosin to do something with= > it? > How to solve? >=20 For starters, I would suggest moving away from apace and towards nginx + fas= tcgi php. A friend had a small dedicated server with a vbulletin forum overloaded with= addons, and apache/php were bringing the server to "high" load levels, 10-2= 0ish. I've moved him to nginx and the server hardly ever goes above 1 now. Additionally, nginx is immune to Slowloris attacks, while apache is not. Only after migrating to nginx would I investigate of the suhosin problem sti= ll exists.= From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 08:39:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CD831065676 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:39:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@m.gmane.org) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 244888FC14 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:39:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ShcvB-0006io-OJ for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:39:21 +0200 Received: from pool-173-79-82-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([173.79.82.23]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:39:21 +0200 Received: from nightrecon by pool-173-79-82-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:39:21 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Michael Powell Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:39:11 -0400 Lines: 84 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-173-79-82-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net Subject: Re: apache PHP suhosin load X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: nightrecon@hotmail.com List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:39:27 -0000 n dhert wrote: > On FreeBSD 8.3 I have apache22 web server with PHP. PHP is PHP52 for > compatibility with existing applications, but the most recent version > in the php52 branch > $ php --version > PHP 5.2.17 with Suhosin-Patch 0.9.7 (cli) (built: May 7 2012 08:45:58) > >>From time to time, I notice in a top output, that a huge number of httpd > daemons are being started, making the load rapidly increase to levels of > 5, 10, 15, ... and very slow interactive respons ... > > Stopping apache makes the load rapidly decrease to a normal level. > > I noticed at the console, at stopping apache, several messages such as > > Jun 14 09:12:20 macos kernel: Jun 14 09:12:20 macos suhosin[28824]: ALERT > - canary mismatch on efree() - heap overflow detected (attacker > 'REMOTE_ADDR not set', file > '/home/wins/win/win/www/wiki/mediawiki-1.16.0/includes/AutoLoader.php', > line 654) > > (the file value differs, but it's always "suhosin .. canany mismatch > - heap overflow detected") > My PHP has following options set > # cd /usr/ports/lang/php52 > > My PHP has following options set > # cd /usr/ports/lang/php52 > # make showconfig > ===> The following configuration options are available for php52-5.2.17_8: > CLI=on: Build CLI version > CGI=on: Build CGI version > APACHE=on: Build Apache module > DEBUG=off: Enable debug > SUHOSIN=on: Enable Suhosin protection system (not for jails) > MULTIBYTE=off: Enable zend multibyte support > IPV6=on: Enable ipv6 support > MAILHEAD=off: Enable mail header patch > REDIRECT=off: Enable force-cgi-redirect support (CGI only) > DISCARD=off: Enable discard-path support (CGI only) > FASTCGI=on: Enable fastcgi support (CGI only) > FPM=off: Enable fastcgi process manager (CGI only) > PATHINFO=on: Enable path-info-check support (CGI only) > LINKTHR=off: Link thread lib (for threaded extensions) > > Is that heap overlow causing the trouble? Has suhosin to do something with > it? Most likely - yes. I noticed in your config above you built and installed the Apache PHP module in addition to CGI/FastCGI. If you are running Apache in a FastCGI mode you should check and make sure the following is indeed commented out like below: #LoadModule php5_module libexec/apache22/libphp5.so The general purpose meaning of this error is that PHP has detected some form of memory corruption. But as to why/what exactly it doesn't help much. The general way I used to look at Apache and PHP problems was to isolate pieces. Like only loading the core PHP and no extensions by renaming the extensions.ini to extensions.ini.bak. This is bound to cause problems as most PHP apps today require a certain basic number of modules enabled in order to work. 2 things to troubleshoot looking for a bad module: comment each out one at a time and restart. When you comment out the bad one you will no longer see the error. Another second item to be aware of is sometimes certain module combinations need to be loaded in extensions.ini in a specific order. Figuring out this order can be nightmarish, should it ever actaully be found to be a problem. Long time ago someone wrote a script to automate this. I seem to have a distant memory that back in early PHP 5.2.x days I had a problem with the mcrypt module. Maybe try commenting that one out first. If you don't need it leave it that way. I also seem to have experienced this error a second time, and it was from a bad interaction between Suhosin patch and two other build options being enabled, one was the Mailhead and I don't remember what the other one was(maybe it was IPv6). I found when I disabled these 2 things I could build with the Suhosin patch and stuff ran correctly. -Mike From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 08:40:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373F41065674 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:40:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7ECB8FC1E for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:40:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1]) by shiva.jussieu.fr (8.14.4/jtpda-5.4) with ESMTP id q5L8eFqX032792 ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:40:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Ids: 164 Received: from [192.168.1.10] (niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.41]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5ADCC20533; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:40:14 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_360EFF47-7B6A-45E1-9C78-C359A2936BCB"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 From: Michel Talon In-Reply-To: <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:40:11 +0200 Message-Id: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> To: kpneal@pobox.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Miltered: at jchkmail.jussieu.fr with ID 4FE2DDEF.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 4FE2DDEF.001/134.157.10.1/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/ X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:40:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_360EFF47-7B6A-45E1-9C78-C359A2936BCB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Le 21 juin 2012 =E0 03:52, kpneal@pobox.com a =E9crit : >=20 > All of this may seem stupid to a reasonable person outside of law. = I'll agree > that it probably does look stupid. But it is also the reality of the = legal > systems we must live with today. I can only praise kpneal for this very well argumented post. However = some remarks. The whole argument revolves around FUD, fear, uncertainty and doubt. But = there will never be any shortage of lawyers trying to spread FUD on any subject to = please their clients, and if companies "bend over" instead of fighting FUD they will = promptly be paralyzed. Last time a company tried to use such tactic against Linux, it did not = turn out a bright idea. Second, FreeBSD is not a commercial company, and while this = argument may have a merit for commercial sponsors of FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD = itself. If FreeBSD appears as a subsidiary of some commercial company (say Juniper) i am not sure = this will be good for its further development. This being said, i agree with you that the = FreeBSD binaries will not see a big performance degradation through the use of clang, so, as = long as gcc is in the ports to be used with performance critical stuff, it is no big deal. Anyways = as a long time FreeBSD user i have seen clang presented as an experiment by two or three = people, and then suddenly stuffed without any discussion in the base system, apparently for political = reasons that i don't share (i mean this stupid obsession of "GPL free" system, which has replaced = the previous focus on quality and performance). -- Michel Talon talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr --Apple-Mail=_360EFF47-7B6A-45E1-9C78-C359A2936BCB-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 09:09:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 799A7106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:09:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from davidcollins001@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BE5C8FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:09:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so840260obb.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 02:09:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=vCoBox/4FTrIBeA2AXGjyE1/E9rc3OKYXS4tVif9xag=; b=EhZPpAS1EFrp5Z5uCJeVJGeqZPNFnsLc5dsNVuKtVWLn2OE39dd3mqa2/VeoTrI2+6 7kJ15Rsl9i+shG3IWMfxQRNaJ3daNDRUSlep9MfgjCh/aKvAH4fOeXmt7oM30zuuQGDT YBQ3BcDg1QLmO8DGD5UcEuS9fLWOvliRTRgycnia2lgT7btCW2qXY2tKEXeUjJYF8Pys 3MfvDtPg3NOhlU0J11dMJiUO83thyDoPiteZwOWLqyBfjz2zdWuqiDvD2yezV86xBh7J yL+hhlNc2UFtrpnci/QLMXldvwoGJTAC0Ko3zNQLQcyXIpVvxicfIz/w+i7tQUspigyv kG/Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.119.33 with SMTP id kr1mr27413375obb.60.1340269759635; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 02:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.80.103 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 02:09:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:09:19 +0100 Message-ID: From: David Collins To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: FreeBSD Questions , Modulok Subject: Re: OT: Robotics or embedded or hardware programming... what is this called? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: davidcollins001@gmail.com List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:09:20 -0000 I have one of these http://www.nerdkits.com/ They pack everything you need in and a few examples, quite neat but you need to do some electronics On 21/06/2012, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> I want to get started programming for hardware. Motors, sensors, >> actuators, etc. >> I have a programming background, (python, PHP, C++) but no experience with >> code >> that drives hardware. (Motors, sensors, etc.) > > add "--" to your language list so first 2 would disappear and third will > become C. > >> I *don't* want closed-source "kit robots" where the point is to build the >> robot >> the book and thats it. I also don't want ladder logic-based PMC's. Some >> kind of >> micro-controller that runs a *nix flavor (or a BSD flavor!) would be >> great! (If > > Why do you want something like microcontroller to run any OS? >> What do you call this? Embedded programming? Generic hardware >> programming? > > running unix on microcontroller-style hardware is what i call nonsense. > > Writing your program that runs from first executed instruction is what i > call normal programming of such devices. > > The proper way is to > > 1) buy a microcontrooler chip, make your hardware using it, possibly buy > already made boards. microcontrollers are <1$, some more capable 32-bit > ones (ARM compatible usually, some are MIPS) for 2-3$. > > 2) throw away all included libraries because they are mostly mess. > prepare something that can be used as crt0.s > Better write it yourself in assembly. shouldn't be larger than 5 > instructions anyway, a bit more if ARM interrupt vectors are needed to be > filled. > > Some assembly knowledge is very useful, in spite of writing most in C. > > 3) read documentation. All embedded devices (like A/D converters, PWM > generators etc.) are described. With 32-bit micros start from "memory MAP" > chapter and then device description. You will just find out at what > address your peripheral is accessible. > > 4) lets say for example that 32 GPIO pins are accessible at address > 0x40001000 for setting ports, 0x40002000 for resetting ports, 0x40003000 > for reading out value, and 0x40004000 for setting direction > (input/output). > > #define GPIO0_SET ((int*)0x40001000) > #define GPIO0_RESET ((int*)0x40002000) > #define GPIO0_READ ((int*)0x40003000) > #define GPIO0_DIR ((int*)0x40004000) > > > 5) use it in your program. > > *GPIO0_DIR=0xFFFFFFFF; //sets all pins to output > *GPIO0_SET=0xAAAAAAAA; //sets every other pin to 1 > *GPIO0_RESET=0x55555555; //set the rest to 0 > > > > if you have questions send it privately. microcontrollers are wrong place > for unix system and it's overcomplexity relatively to the task. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 09:30:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF5341065793 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:30:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fritz-bounce@frell.theremailer.net) Received: from frell.theremailer.net (unknown [IPv6:2002:d527:d59d:9:dd4e:c383:cd9a:a6a1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 770828FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:30:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by frell.theremailer.net with local (Exim) id 1ShdEJ-0003vY-KB for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org envelope-sender fritz-bounce@frell.theremailer.net; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:59:07 +0200 Sender: Fritz Wuehler Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. Please report problems or inappropriate use to the remailer administrator at . Identifying the real sender is technically impossible. To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: fred.morcos@gmail.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Precedence: anon Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:59:07 +0200 Subject: Re: Flaming mailing lists (was Re: Why Clang) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:30:34 -0000 And I just want to add I'm a gay Marxist atheist and I represent the accusations leveled in that other post...we have feelings too!!! From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 09:50:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66E64106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:50:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller23@insightbb.com) Received: from mail.insightbb.com (smtp1.insight.synacor.com [208.47.185.23]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AD3B8FC1C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:50:30 +0000 (UTC) X_CMAE_Category: 0,0 Undefined,Undefined X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=86GbDLi7NS7TegNzg0A2mmhQWIv0QOIIryOgdPqEZ2g= c=1 sm=0 a=_6eTnbXZ1w0A:10 a=jLN7EqiLvroA:10 a=hSDTz-f-XGRyIXv4bFcA:9 a=Q/oqmR4JO1zR3vNQamCQeQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Authentication-Results: smtp02.insight.synacor.com smtp.mail=mueller23@insightbb.com; spf=softfail; sender-id=softfail Authentication-Results: smtp02.insight.synacor.com header.from=mueller23@insightbb.com; sender-id=softfail Received-SPF: softfail (smtp02.insight.synacor.com: transitional domain insightbb.com does not designate 74.134.26.53 as permitted sender) Received: from [74.134.26.53] ([74.134.26.53:50549] helo=localhost) by mail.insightbb.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.40 r(29895/29896)) with ESMTP id 26/30-12873-06EE2EF4; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:50:24 -0400 Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:50:24 -0400 Message-ID: <26.30.12873.06EE2EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> From: "Thomas Mueller" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:50:31 -0000 Snippet from Wojciech Puchar : > I successfully predicted the fall of linux (in quality point of view) > years ago, then netbsd - after this and my prediction were good. > Now i predict FreeBSD will fall within 2015 time frame. > What i mean fall - that it would be better to use older version as long as > possible because newer are worse. > For now > - FreeBSD 6 was an improvement > - FreeBSD 7 was an improvement, except first releases but that's normal > - FreeBSD 8 was a big improvement in performance and quality. > FreeBSD 9 as for now: > - have similar performance at most > - have some improvement and important functionality like TRIM support. > - have some useful functionality like softdep journalling, but risky. > Still - forcing full check reveals some inconsistencies now and then. > FreeBSD 10 will unlikely be better, but for sure slower unless you will > force gcc build that MAYBE will work. possibly not. My experience with NetBSD suggests you may be right there, but Linux? I'll have to build a new Linux installation and see for myself! I'm still inclined to say FreeBSD 9.0 is an improvement over 8.2; I never got to 8.3. Tom From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 10:00:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E271065676 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:00:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller23@insightbb.com) Received: from mail.insightbb.com (smtp2.insight.synacor.com [208.47.185.24]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89FFE8FC12 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:00:07 +0000 (UTC) X_CMAE_Category: 0,0 Undefined,Undefined X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ckx0xiEn7p8DooRbGL7J0xV8END3bIR+bIATejdBvIs= c=1 sm=0 a=PKwSrY56EB4A:10 a=jLN7EqiLvroA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=ASM5dSlekfTgHTIufjUA:9 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=Q/oqmR4JO1zR3vNQamCQeQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Authentication-Results: smtp01.insight.synacor.com header.from=mueller23@insightbb.com; sender-id=softfail Authentication-Results: smtp01.insight.synacor.com smtp.mail=mueller23@insightbb.com; spf=softfail; sender-id=softfail Received-SPF: softfail (smtp01.insight.synacor.com: transitional domain insightbb.com does not designate 74.134.26.53 as permitted sender) Received: from [74.134.26.53] ([74.134.26.53:52728] helo=localhost) by mail.insightbb.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.40 r(29895/29896)) with ESMTP id B8/7D-32619-0A0F2EF4; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:00:01 -0400 Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:00:00 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Thomas Mueller" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Stephen Cook Subject: Re: List flames (was Re: Why Clang) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:00:09 -0000 from Stephen Cook : > No, this is unusual. But also remember that most of these lists are not > just unmoderated but open to posting without subscription. Then it > becomes kind of amazing at how little flaming and trolling there is. > That's not an accident, the admins work hard to limit abuse. > As an alternate, consider the forums (http://forums.freebsd.org/), which > are moderated. Because of FreeBSD lists being mainly unmoderated and open to posting without subscription, I notice some outright spams that slip through the list filters. I believe (could possibly be wrong) that the lists have spam filters in place. If a message has properties of spam, it will be held for a human moderator to see if it is spam (dump it) or not spam (let it through). Tom From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 10:54:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C3A51065677 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:54:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nec556@retena.com) Received: from resmaa14.ono.com (smtp14.ono.com [62.42.230.176]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3E188FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:54:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from GogPortatil.retena.com (85.219.45.167) by resmaa14.ono.com (8.5.113) (authenticated as nec556@retena.com) id 4FA8828000BAC447 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:48:42 +0200 Message-ID: <4FA8828000BAC447@> (added by postmaster@resmaa14.ono.com) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:51:20 +0200 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Eduardo Morras In-Reply-To: <4FDB8808.1070806@gmail.com> References: <4FDA0B5E.4090901@gmail.com> <4FDAAF5E.4040500@gmail.com> <4FDAECF8.4080007@gmail.com> <4FDB8808.1070806@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 2012.0.2180 [2437/5082] Subject: Re: No surround sound with Creative SB Live! card X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:54:47 -0000 At 21:07 15/06/2012, Edward M wrote: >>What do you mean by "a decoder is needed"? > > A decorder is either a special plugin/codex that > gets installed into the OS ( codex called a52dec) and decoding > happens internally. > or a hardware device like a stereo receiver that is able to > understand Dolby Digital signals from the DVD through S/PDIF > connector from the sound card to decorder. > however, it only appears you are only missing a52dec? Have you > installed a52dec from ports/audio/gstreamer-plugins-a52dec/ ? Perhaps ffmpeg was compiled without some codecs. If you check GPL codecs off, a52 and others are not compiled. Deinstall ffmepeg, do a manual compilation with cd /usr/ports/multimedia/ffmpeg && make config install clean, checking the options you want. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 11:06:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 214EF106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:06:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F72B8FC14 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:06:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LB6CCH002018; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:06:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LB6CXP002015; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:06:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:06:12 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Michel Talon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:06:13 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions , kpneal@pobox.com Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:06:17 -0000 > for commercial sponsors of FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD itself. If FreeBSD appears > as a subsidiary of some commercial company (say Juniper) i am not sure this will be good I think any project that size is actually a subsidiary and must be. I just don't like that it isn't stated openly! It is nothing wrong, unless one can feed using zero point energy, everyone needs money to stay alive. Wouldn't it be smarter to openly say "Juniper request as to get rid o GPL as soon as we can because they are fed up with this shit and law mess." instead of personal attacks, messing with my (and others) sentences and posting evident lies just to "explain" the decision. It is a difference between honest people and fools. i already proposed (but not publically) to turn FreeBSD into commercial system. REALLY i would not see a problem to pay say 100$ per server licence. There is nothing to prevent giving source with system. Non-Free software doesn't have to be binary only. For paying this i would like FreeBSD to be maintained with quality and performance being the only reason, not politics. Every "trendy" or otherwise requested feature could be added separately or even charged separately, as long as it doesn't have any effects on base system. ZFS being example. Nothing against Juniper (the make truly good working hardware), but if they enforce decision because of their personal likes then it must be stopped. GPLv3 based C compiler does not prevent making closed source software like JunOS for example. It is only "i hate GNU" type decision. I hate too, and in spite of this am against removing gcc and replacing it with much worse product. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 11:10:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4936F1065676 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:10:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A750D8FC17 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:10:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LB9wfr002042; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:09:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LB9vQI002039; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:09:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:09:57 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Thomas Mueller In-Reply-To: <26.30.12873.06EE2EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> Message-ID: References: <26.30.12873.06EE2EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:09:58 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:10:02 -0000 >> force gcc build that MAYBE will work. possibly not. > > > My experience with NetBSD suggests you may be right there, but Linux? After commercial support got too much about directing decisions, NetBSD got very quickly useless. > > I'll have to build a new Linux installation and see for myself! Warning: You may not go through it healthy. > I'm still inclined to say FreeBSD 9.0 is an improvement over 8.2; I never got to 8.3. There are some new functionality. rctl may be very very very useful. But as for speed - i don't see it to be better, and at high disk I/O load it seems to get somehow longer stalls but it is subjective, no precise test done. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 11:12:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E03E31065674 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:12:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF438FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:12:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LBCPGo002069; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:12:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LBCP4W002066; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:12:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:12:25 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Thomas Mueller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:12:26 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Stephen Cook , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: List flames (was Re: Why Clang) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:12:30 -0000 > Because of FreeBSD lists being mainly unmoderated and open to posting without subscription, I notice some outright spams that slip through the list filters. > > I believe (could possibly be wrong) that the lists have spam filters in place. it must have and well done. FreeBSD list is for sure more known to spammer than me, while i would get ca 2000 spams per day after turning off my antispam system. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 11:13:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E893106577C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:13:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller23@insightbb.com) Received: from mail.insightbb.com (smtp.insight.synacor.com [208.47.185.22]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C749E8FC12 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:13:20 +0000 (UTC) X_CMAE_Category: 0,0 Undefined,Undefined X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=86GbDLi7NS7TegNzg0A2mmhQWIv0QOIIryOgdPqEZ2g= c=1 sm=0 a=jLN7EqiLvroA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=FW1Qr0WDXY_ekvWULkQA:9 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=Q/oqmR4JO1zR3vNQamCQeQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Authentication-Results: smtp02.insight.synacor.com header.from=mueller23@insightbb.com; sender-id=neutral Authentication-Results: smtp02.insight.synacor.com smtp.mail=mueller23@insightbb.com; spf=neutral; sender-id=neutral Received-SPF: neutral (smtp02.insight.synacor.com: 74.134.26.53 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of insightbb.com) Received: from [74.134.26.53] ([74.134.26.53:46104] helo=localhost) by mail.insightbb.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.40 r(29895/29896)) with ESMTP id CF/D3-12873-263F2EF4; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:11:46 -0400 Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:11:46 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Thomas Mueller" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Antonio Olivares Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:13:21 -0000 Snippet from Antonio Olivares : > I have some friends that develop software. They had released it under > GNU umbrella. Later on, other folks were taking advantage and not > giving back as the license requires. There was little to no way to > enforce the license, he decided to move to other license that > protects his work and let others use it was well with little to no > strings attached. He know uses the CDDL which is also an Open Source > License. He can give you many reasons as to why the GPLv3 is the > wrong way to go. I can ask him for these and other reasons at your > request. Yes, that would be a good idea, not so much for me as for others who want to better understand the licensing issues of GCC compared to Clang. That would help explain why FreeBSD is switching to Clang. Tom From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 07:33:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CBDE106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:33:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hoomanfazaeli@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D821B8FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:33:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so2163818lbo.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:33:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lbw5M5Xf+fBOx69ganM0piIVXvcgibxcLePTFbI1y38=; b=PFRYfGyZIHI66MS0+Te8MDt7kdtP1zuJClfnB02OtnDyy9Bq6FUGgbWVJnklGZh1uF BdAJtJtEQc8XwPZGGfsvKN0ZEb0NjCvsyEf/izzDufibLcwITnzaoAn1oum8Cc4gTZSL M8jfwlnepFAhIGDzu/BdgKoKHVqH8KYfcjvK3EkThVYTOCmOBjyQa7/tBPt/BIGBGPOr ne+1YXE6Yb6AtktPIwt8YIWlRkq7vnYCuxA7F7vCYC4XIpDa3nZwjC1yF5cAIxbopf7u qUGoe5WQaHw+ZOEuaTDxP1jtA/tzYb4UFakCKzz37s3dEsXQJCs1gC9n6RZIFxH7aavg r4oQ== Received: by 10.152.132.233 with SMTP id ox9mr1013525lab.25.1340264002324; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([84.241.57.181]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b3sm17963627lbh.6.2012.06.21.00.33.19 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:03:12 +0430 From: Hooman Fazaeli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.28) Gecko/20120306 Thunderbird/3.1.20 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:13:37 +0000 Subject: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:33:29 -0000 Dear community In the past, I built a 8TB ZFS log server on freebsd 7.4. However, the system experienced instablility after long up times. My main motive to use ZFS was UFS inability to support large file systems. Now, I want to the same thing on 8.3 and wanted to know your opinion on ZFS stability. Is there any success story using ZFS in 24x7, large volume, heavy duty servers? Is there any other option other than ZFS to build larger than 2TB file systems? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 11:24:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 209A8106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:24:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fred.morcos@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC68A8FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:24:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so388295ghb.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:24:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=lznGdl80ehZ6WCO0wScMfqBgNVzJY7ix8k0Vvw/bPxA=; b=XGxvxxasylfHhEbHkSyXQDSHrrvrt1yMhETS0EixknktbW7S3FnykMb26AaSMP/979 NsH4RcKI1kONr7WJknvIqDLrKVNQnyXVGOzwOihCJHc7xDhjq82pzppMD3p0oNCEFMeI 6A5Y5+pSExPBfU4eJTP07D9pZO/Qm2i8mhr5/jwxH4k7i7yMUMKNuBilKAum18HdONHb 9KVXAR0hpXd79WhHDYsLq/zE+rLqcS+onMOJGx6ddaQmvA1V4028XL9Ksi7RgACW1oSv 1L0DIvNyuWtC0154IXpMB8XwAaS2l57C5LffI/lpe+DBVFVUffII0hfPAbyyO0NCAGSc hauw== Received: by 10.60.14.68 with SMTP id n4mr25271470oec.24.1340277887027; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:24:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.241.7 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:24:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Fred Morcos Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:24:26 +0200 Message-ID: To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Walter Hurry Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:24:48 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> I'm quite new to FreeBSD too (RHEL/Fedora background), and am most >> impressed with it so far. > > > rather huge difference. > > >> Secondly (and probably stating the obvious), the handbook >> >> >> >> is the place I always look first. > > and third - manuals. They are in sync with system and actually VERY useful. > > while i was still (long time ago) using linux most common manual was like > > "this manual is outdated. Use texinfo documentation". and texinfo docs was > often outdated too. > > Today it is most probably "look at wikipedia" ;) > > Of course i means FreeBSD base system, ports are not part of FreeBSD and > quality varies. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" I will go with a single thread. I will also try to keep it as short as possible. Please note that it is not my intention to start a flame-war against anyone or any project. I am stating my experiences, the goals I would like to achieve and some questions I have. Suggestions and directions (to put me on track) are greatly welcome and appreciated. Questions will be marked with a q) at the beginning of the line. Introduction and background I have been using GNU/Linux for quite a while and I am most comfortable with Archlinux. The reason I like it is it's simplicity from the ground up without wasting too much time on unimportant details (unless you want to). Another strong point is that it provides binary packages by default, user-building of packages if you want to, and the same level of customization you can achieve with - say - Gentoo Linux. FreeBSD seems to provide that. I learned over the years that (re-)compilation of packages is not something I want to do regularly, but something I would like to do only when I need and want to (ie, to strip out or add a certain compile-time feature from/to a package). I also learned that the performance gains of tuning compiler flags for a certain CPU are not that drastic for a desktop/laptop/workstation machine workflow and that this category of computing is mostly bound by IO speed (especially with HDDs). q) Is it possible to run a FreeBSD system without much building? In other words, can I survive by depending on packages and only resorting to ports when really needed? What set me off, and got me tired of dealing with Linux-based systems is a set of patterns that have been repeating over for some years now. Generally: 1. Too often, core system components break (especially with every Linux kernel release). 1. Yesterday I spent 30 minutes until my webcam worked, dealing with v4l, gstreamer and cheese. 2. The USB3 port in my laptop used to work as USB2 (never as USB3), not anymore, it's now completely useless and doesn't react to anything. 2. Sudden drastic changes that are deviating from simplicity. 1. The sudden flood of daemons that are designed to do everything for me, without giving me much say in the matter. My computer is supposed to help me, not decide for me or replace me. 2. Those daemons are hard to get rid of and are tightly integrated into higher-level components in the stack (ie, into the desktop environment). 3. Those daemons are increasingly hard and obscure to configure (ie, huge XML files, complex hierarchies, etc). 3. Due to having to run and interact with each other all the time, those daemons are sucking the life out of my laptop battery (according to powertop). 4. Probably other frustrations that I have forgotten about. 5. I think many of the developers of those components are trying to reach a Mac-like experience? I am not against that in any way, but it needs to be working well. Those are dbus, hal, udev, udisks, upower, pulseaudio, systemd, consolekit and policykit. I am aware that those solutions are there to solve complex problems (thus their inherent complexity) and that many bright people with a lot of experience have thought about them and worked on those projects. My frustration is that those solutions are: 1. At the cost of making simple tasks more complex. 2. Replacing or conflicting with the previously existing solution. 3. Sometimes very unstable and unusable. q) Where does the FreeBSD project stand on this matter? From what I noticed is that the base system seems to adhere to the tranditional flat text files for configuration and simple tools that do a good job, leaving it up to the user to combine those small tools to create larger, more complex ones (a UNIX inheritance). q) Is a FreeBSD stable base system with "current" high-level components possible? Will it avoid the issues I experienced on Linux-based systems? My goal I have two laptops (Asus N73JQ, Asus U36S) which I use as work machines. Power efficiency is very important, efficient disk access too. Suspend to ram and hiberation would be nice to have but are not utterly important. q) I would assume UFS with J+SU is "fast enough" for a laptop? q) Does ZFS make sense on a laptop? Any advantages of using it over USF with J+SU? I am not interested in any striping or mirroring on the laptops, but the compression features is very attractive for the HDDs in the first laptop. q) The second laptop has an SSD, would UFS with/without J and with/without SU or ZFS make more sense for it? q) Can I live with a desktop environment (Gnome or KDE) and desktop applications (Firefox, Libreoffice, etc) by relying only on packages? q) Does ntfs-3g from ports work reliably with external HDDs or USB flash drives with read and write support? I would like to hear personal experiences with that. q) Does the NVIDIA binary driver work reliably? I would like to hear personal experiences with that. I am also planning to setup a micro-server for home use (either a ready-built one or by simply building a PC and using it as a server), questions about that will come later. The main use of it would be hosting my multimedia, streaming music and making backups of the laptops on it (cron + rsync). Also, maybe some web/ftp and git servers. Initial impressions I installed the base system into Virtualbox and everything works quite well. Everything is so... clean, and tidy, and consistent, and simple. Very well thought out. I am also very impressed with the amount of properly written man pages and with the handbook. I would like to thank and congratulate all of the people who work on the FreeBSD base system, a true masterpiece. Setting up and installation q) Does the bsdinstall align partitions to device blocks by default for optimal speed? If not, I have found that I can use gpart with -a and -b which will require me to calculate the start and end offsets of each partition manually. Is there a tool that can automatically do that for me? q) Is it possible to get native resolution on the console? I played with vesa and vidcontrol but could never get what I wanted. Native resolution would require KMS? q) Adding tmpmfs="YES" to /etc/rc.conf is analogous to a tmpfs /tmp on Linux-based systems, correct? Any other directories that might make sense to have as an mfs (ie, in /var)? q) Is there a place where all sysctl variables are documented? It occurred to me when I was trying to find the memory usage on my system but `sysctl -a | grep mem' shows a whole bunch of stuff. q) How can I set proxy settings system-wide? Same for PACKAGESITE (for the pkg_* tools), how can I set a mirror system-wide? /etc/profile? q) I noticed all file/data-sizes are in bytes (ls, dd, etc), is there a way to change that system-wide to be in human-readable format? System To assess my understanding, the system is split into kernel, base, documentation, games, lib32 (on 64-bit systems) and ports. There is another split between base and ports where base includes everything previously mentioned minus ports. Now, there are 3 "branches" of the base system: RELEASE, STABLE and CURRENT. RELEASE means 9.0 and stays that way until 10.0 is released. STABLE means 9.0, 9.1, 9.2, etc. CURRENT means "trunk" in SVN terms. Is all that correct? Also, when somewhere is mentioned `make world', this means to rebuild all installed ports which doesn't include base, I assume? q) The files in /etc/rc.d are all executable, from my understanding, those files will get executed and it is their duty to check the variable `_enable' for whether they should start or not. Wouldn't it be more efficient to chmod -x or +x them to disable/enable? q) What is analogous to /etc/rc.local from Linux-based systems? q) Is there something analogous to the Linux magic sysrq key? Ports and packages I must say, the ports collection being built on makefiles was a welcome enlightenment, it just, naturally, made sense. The *-recursive make targets are a blessing, especially for configs. q) Is there a tool that can test a set of mirrors for connection time and speed (for packages and ports)? Analogous to Archlinux's rankmirrors? q) Is it possible for the pkg_* tools (especially pkg_add -r) to display progress? q) I noticed in the ports collection that there were some outdated packages (skype-2.2, gimp-2.6), should I report that and where? (A PR?) q) Is it possible to have the ports system compile into an mfs (to avoid disk access)? q) Is it possible to have the user asked to change their password the first time they log in (using an OTP) in a simple way? I looked at OPIE but it seems to be much more complex than what I need. GEOM and filesystems >From what I could understand, the GEOM layer only supports read-only compression. Which makes (to me) ZFS an attractive filesystem for slow HDDs (on the first laptop). Also, I would like to have a system where user home directories are encrypted based-on and using the user's password. From what I could find, gbde and geli don't really provide that without any administrator intervention. q) What should I be looking at to achieve the above? q) When creating a ZFS pool, what happens if I do a `zpool create mypool /dev/ada1 /dev/ada2'? Does it use the disks as a single continous one? Does it mirror or stripe by default? Or does it simply try to balance between performance and reliability? I could not find anything about the default behavior in the zpool manpage. q) Is it possible to have ZFS use 2 disks as a single continuous one, while still keeping both of them operable individually? (ie, if I plug in the second disk on another machine, I would get a valid ZFS pool + filesystem on it). q) I am currently considering 3 disks for a home micro-server, with ZFS striping with the third disk being a parity disk. In case I decide to buy a fourth disk in the future and add it to the pool, is ZFS capable of re-structuring the data on-the-fly to have 2 sets of striping (without parity, so 2 disks each) and on top of that a mirror? Analogous to the following: +-------------------------------+ | Stripe2 mirrors Stripe1 | +---------------+---------------+ | Stripe1 | Stripe2 | +-------+-------+-------+-------+ | Disk1 | Disk2 | Disk3 | Disk4 | +-------+-------+-------+-------+ q) Does it make sense to user a zpool directly without any ZFS filesystems on it on a single-user system where there's no special interest in ZFS's filesystem features (ie, compression)? Home micro-server This section is a little bit off-topic and not really a FreeBSD-related question. Sorry for that. As previously mentioned, I am evaluating the possibility of a home micro-server setup to host my files and other services. Here is a rough list of tasks I would like to achieve with it: 1. Serving files over network (samba, nfs). 2. Media streaming (mpd + icecast or DAAP). 3. Rsync backup server for the 2 laptops. 4. SSH, sFTP access. Some tentative features: 1. Mail, WWW. 2. Diaspora, ownCloud. 3. Git. The sole reason I would like to use FreeBSD on this system is ZFS. q) I would like to hear anyone's recommendation of a cheap, low-power ready-made hardware for such a purpose which is supported by FreeBSD. I poked around a little bit and the HP micro-servers seem to be interesting, but unfortunately too powerful (and thus power-hungry) for my purpose. q) If there isn't much outcome from looking into ready-made micro-servers, is anyone having a success story running their services on a custom built desktop PC at home with FreeBSD and ZFS? Cheers, Fred From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 11:26:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3575C106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:26:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B8C78FC1A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:26:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LBQR46002167; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:26:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LBQQVQ002164; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:26:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:26:26 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Thomas Mueller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:26:27 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Antonio Olivares Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:26:31 -0000 >> wrong way to go. I can ask him for these and other reasons at your >> request. > > Yes, that would be a good idea, not so much for me as for others who want to better understand the licensing issues of GCC compared to Clang. i would like to hear this. but only in C compiler context. i understand the other issues, but IMHO there are none about using GPLv3 licenced compiler to compile non-opensource programs. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 11:29:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D5D01065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:29:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayasaman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11E238FC15 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:29:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so2193974pbb.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:29:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=S5l/01mpDzUYh8IGOQpsoVqLr8RCEB6Xp5Obpbdn/Mc=; b=FNqOx4pAu0a2TO052Zum7TAzNjYd50YpO4QCSa+UPUunzLaq17vKHlNFLegZrLQqVv Wtqhu2U3aVEUjIxTOqQKXlmemFBamAgbMbIZK3Z72lO1w3N8mEjJKmoilTK3us96a2Lm ibwntPjFTaqmTahmmVRDFn5/9vVAmdxJXE1qy7/qixFytjlnhiqkIebNc6jgwASjv45s nXUETMKGbFh/l+GwdJ/J62MLONf9xhOuGZaqPh+G10VElARXvj0h3AUHM1CYFCHtA2N+ uAFWLdBT8qls7rxL0GhiDSBTDnzU6E3ic3UuZ0NVN8W3bI1e8XJ/uFQQjGsFnKTKAfiL z5fg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.221.106 with SMTP id qd10mr89255447pbc.42.1340278144776; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.79.13 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:29:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:29:04 +0100 Message-ID: From: Kaya Saman To: Hooman Fazaeli Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:29:05 -0000 Hi, I think it is stable enough on FreeBSD. Someone actually posted quite a similar thread not a while ago...... Here'e a quick summary: For my various OpenSource projects, I have deployed a 36TB file system which is fine and stable running 24/7. Additionally at home I use 4TB (2x 2TB) + 8TB (2x 4TB) on a machine with 4GB RAM.... this has been up for 3 years with minimum reboot! - this system gets pretty hammered as lot's of front ends for my OpenSource stuff run off there plus I transfer large amounts of data 10's of GB's often between systems. For web stuff I get round 20,000-30,000 hits from various places on that particular box and it handles perfectly unlike my crappy Cisco 857 router - will redeploy a uni-socket server running OpenBSD for this one. Good luck! Regards, Kaya On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 8:33 AM, Hooman Fazaeli w= rote: > Dear community > > In the past, I built a 8TB ZFS log server on freebsd 7.4. > However, the system =A0experienced instablility after long up times. > My main motive to use ZFS was UFS inability to support large > file systems. > > Now, I want to the same thing on 8.3 and wanted to know > your opinion on ZFS stability. Is there any success story using > ZFS in 24x7, large volume, heavy duty servers? Is there any > other option other than ZFS to build larger than 2TB file systems? > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 11:52:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DF841065673 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:52:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 531408FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:52:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LBqOn4002271; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:52:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LBqO1t002268; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:52:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:52:24 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Hooman Fazaeli In-Reply-To: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:52:25 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:52:29 -0000 stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. And it works fast. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:03:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1EF4106568F for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:03:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mgamsjager@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 664A98FC18 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:03:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vbmv11 with SMTP id v11so326434vbm.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:03:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=cydp0JGPG3nGYLKu1JCfpveYd/wNy5KGpPCUyFQxECI=; b=z8Rn417RgJaTQJMznqrMngmiHi6grPXkVG1r2+ZIKgaveWmELMvViygW8h7gwZUeVJ vHtMlmIfB+8cBnApG3Rq3rm4KUGyFrE2Ki9pUryNV0tiQpXdhwSjGnlBZf+eHRJfx630 XXMda6jFYJNcrrMkV57KNhJ44GbzmFSZXu3jvHGV7Upfhj66auIs482gHlHN0wBIECaT KjCoTWLD3VolrfByi/Ajp2Wr/b513w5PoGVk60yS8eT+pmdiUD3CBZJRsWqy/eJEAGph wtPboDbiHhFUkElY+IdLkkGFlGfsvVRtLwrU6pa+oP0VjfLY8/molCI4LLFa3SLHn45M loOg== Received: by 10.52.29.179 with SMTP id l19mr11186450vdh.73.1340280181693; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:03:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.172.199 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:02:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> From: Matthias Gamsjager Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:02:31 +0200 Message-ID: To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:03:08 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Wojciech Puchar < wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote: > stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. > And it works fast. > > The correct answer would be. I depends on the work load.... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:10:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72BAB10656AD for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:10:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 592FA8FC19 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:10:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LCAGEX002362; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:10:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LCAGma002359; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:10:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:10:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Fred Morcos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:10:16 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Walter Hurry Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:10:21 -0000 >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > I will go with a single thread. I will also try to keep it as short as > possible. Please note that it is not my intention to start a flame-war > against anyone or any project. I am stating my experiences, the goals i - in reply - just told you my experiences with linux which was actually my first unix-like OS. > I learned over the years that (re-)compilation of packages is not > something I want to do regularly, but something I would like to do > only when I need and want to (ie, to strip out or add a certain > compile-time feature from/to a package). I also learned that the > performance gains of tuning compiler flags for a certain CPU are not > that drastic for a desktop/laptop/workstation machine workflow and > that this category of computing is mostly bound by IO speed > (especially with HDDs). true. anyway if you want anything else that default compile options you have to rebuild. > q) Is it possible to run a FreeBSD system without much building? In you may use all binary packages. You may even do pkg_add ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/......./packagename.tbz and it works, and will fetch dependencies too if needed. you may use source builds, or mix of both. you just do portsnap fetch portsnap update to get ports tree up to date. > other words, can I survive by depending on packages and only resorting > to ports when really needed? it depends on ports. Some are easy to deal with some are not. > 1. Too often, core system components break (especially with every > Linux kernel release). > 1. Yesterday I spent 30 minutes until my webcam worked, dealing with > v4l, gstreamer and cheese. > 2. The USB3 port in my laptop used to work as USB2 (never as USB3), > not anymore, it's now completely useless and doesn't react to > anything. This programs are not part of FreeBSD, just as they are not part of linux (linux is kernel). webcamd, gstreamer etc.. are still the same programs no matter if you compile then under linux and freebsd. as for point 2 it would probably be better with FreeBSD :) > 2. Sudden drastic changes that are deviating from simplicity. In that respect FreeBSD is 100 times better. But still - PORTS are not FreeBSD. There are tens of thousands of them. Most are the same programs that run on linux, just packaging differ. And nobody can be sure something will not get f...d up. > 1. The sudden flood of daemons that are designed to do everything > for me, without giving me much say in the matter. My computer is > supposed to help me, not decide for me or replace me. FreeBSD starts only inetd and cron by default. As for me it is already too much in /etc/crontab :) > 2. Those daemons are hard to get rid of and are tightly integrated > into higher-level components in the stack (ie, into the desktop > environment). No such a problem under FreeBSD. But when compiling xorg-server from ports i recommend turning off SUID and HAL options. > 3. Those daemons are increasingly hard and obscure to configure > (ie, huge XML files, complex hierarchies, etc). FreeBSD base system is not like that. But still - if you use the same thing that in linux it would be the same. Anyway human have brain and can use it. So prepare your environment that would fit your needs and nothing else. > 3. Due to having to run and interact with each other all the time, > those daemons are sucking the life out of my laptop battery > (according to powertop). No such problem on my laptop. It runs 1.5 hours longer than official specs. enable powerd in /etc/rc.conf - powerd is a part of base system, not addon. Works great. > 4. Probably other frustrations that I have forgotten about. You should not forgot them so you will not ever want to go back to linux. > 5. I think many of the developers of those components are trying to > reach a Mac-like experience? I am not against that in any way, but > it needs to be working well. I don't really know what linux community want to achieve. For my observation they wanted to compete with microsoft windows. And they exceeded the target - it's even more messy and uncontrollable. > Those are dbus, hal, udev, udisks, upower, pulseaudio, systemd, > consolekit and policykit. > You do not need any of them under FreeBSD. It is useful to have dbus daemon running for whole machine in many use cases but not really needed. > I am aware that those solutions are there to solve complex problems which was first created. > I have two laptops (Asus N73JQ, Asus U36S) which I use as work > machines. Power efficiency is very important, efficient disk access > too. Suspend to ram and hiberation would be nice to have but are not > utterly important. > > q) I would assume UFS with J+SU is "fast enough" for a laptop? If you have magnetic disk - yes. Anyway with journalling+soft updates perform full fsck now and then anyway. > > q) Does ZFS make sense on a laptop? Any advantages of using it over You are bright man. So use UFS first. Then after getting general experience with FreeBSD do perform tests with ZFS. Check general speed under load, CPU usage, RAM usage. I think it will be enough to decide. > USF with J+SU? I am not interested in any striping or mirroring on > the laptops, but the compression features is very attractive for the > HDDs in the first laptop. Hard disks are large. > > q) The second laptop has an SSD, would UFS with/without J and > with/without SU or ZFS make more sense for it? UFS+softupdates, no journalling. fsck takes few seconds on SSD. turn on noatime option on any kind of disk! > > q) Can I live with a desktop environment (Gnome or KDE) and desktop > applications (Firefox, Libreoffice, etc) by relying only on packages? Yes. But i recommend you to just run needed programs and not desktop environment that doesn't add value. Use some simple windows manager. I recommend icewm at first (but edit your own menu, it isn't built automatically). I personally use fvwm2 with very "unusual" config which removes everything unneeded. > > q) Does ntfs-3g from ports work reliably with external HDDs or USB > flash drives with read and write support? I would like to hear > personal experiences with that. use ntfsprogs from ports. ntfsmount works fine. But do not depend on NTFS support too much anyway. > q) Does the NVIDIA binary driver work reliably? I would like to hear I avoid nvidia as far as i can. It WILL run under Xorg, but it is messy. As i always prefered to just not have that hardware from that company i will not help you. > ready-built one or by simply building a PC and using it as a server), > questions about that will come later. The main use of it would be > hosting my multimedia, streaming music and making backups of the > laptops on it (cron + rsync). Also, maybe some web/ftp and git > servers. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:11:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 240AE106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:11:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root1101@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90B338FC1C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:11:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so2539356lbo.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:11:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ziP0M/VYh3FguRzLzMuiCzvplIy9jq7Di9DSCkjhn9M=; b=Oyl74oF+dDQcloYTcdHc4YbUefPMw8sYLLVv+ZAGqLbhdNj2r8C1ecgLgAqYL+QGnD atO+jyVut25xEP5+JTLC2K1LAwpWtXk7XDmx60WOsu35JySi8GxRfgMdzLaFAJe/BfXc njixhTG2rihxErMbizU+cCMGpVoRt/P+XQJkZbmkp0A9AD29Ii30Hun4jCc3+/Loi641 CxAzhwOURfBla8/qHKzTjb9NX9mmsx9HyYIdtPyL4wL7dwY1+BOSqLQe6hm15uj/3ZL7 V4Rgg/25mSkq0XhXZgqDUbLaRk/1HWvTz8XgmRDL9WUaOjS/kWDBcUQeRHJkLDDyLRpx G6ag== Received: by 10.112.24.194 with SMTP id w2mr11526342lbf.75.1340280692412; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (ppp91-79-221-21.pppoe.mtu-net.ru. [91.79.221.21]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i4sm18433206lbg.17.2012.06.21.05.11.30 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE30FBC.1070904@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:12:44 +0400 From: =?UTF-8?B?0JXQstCz0LXQvdC40Lkg0JvQsNC60YLQsNC90L7Qsg==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120420 Thunderbird/10.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:11:34 -0000 21.06.2012 15:52, Wojciech Puchar пиŃет: > stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. > And it works fast. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > I see the trend here. That guy is determined to shove his opinion down the throat of everybody. Stop it, tis most annoying. Back to the topic. ZFS support has matured greatly since the last time you tried it, currently freebsd supports zfs pool v. 28 in the last updates. Try it, it won't disappoint you. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:14:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61BB91065675 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:14:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C34298FC14 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:14:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LCDxBI002388; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:13:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LCDxaB002385; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:13:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:13:59 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Kaya Saman In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:13:59 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions , Hooman Fazaeli Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:14:03 -0000 > For my various OpenSource projects, I have deployed a 36TB file system > which is fine and stable running 24/7. Additionally at home I use 4TB > (2x 2TB) + 8TB (2x 4TB) on a machine with 4GB RAM.... this has been up > for 3 years with minimum reboot! Good. There are some companies that make for living recovering data from "unbreakable" ZFS :) You may be just lucky. or they will make some money. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:14:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004211065676 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:14:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63E8B8FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:14:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LCEkmS002398; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:14:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LCEjR0002395; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:14:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:14:45 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Matthias Gamsjager In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:14:46 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:14:50 -0000 > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Wojciech Puchar < > wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote: > >> stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. >> And it works fast. >> >> > The correct answer would be. I depends on the work load.... For different kinds of production workload it doesn't, aat least for me. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:15:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 826F91065675 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:15:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mgamsjager@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F52E8FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:15:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vbmv11 with SMTP id v11so334090vbm.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:15:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=Q5DWYkD5/AWpu3uv0eRiY7B5KqlNE0JmN6RlxJ5HwSs=; b=DbMFw/jDsDn7f9/QAZljT2H+sJU+YsNT3C6Xx3PckjurQ+PsoIrKLxPpGkIoL9PV3I CcI9YIlc1kguCgX15Dm/SmCF+aknu/YcethI4ST2NPnLz5ctTkggEV9dbFvkH5eN++Lb b2bD95h48b2yIzx9cPqVrJPJUX/h/874DxwCCrvu3Cyzi9Leziv2O91Cjh7G1YhDFLEF 39jFQfN036BrnXPYwy6j3Ra5E7cBijrJBMqnnBIq645oTiH4DhLzOmtOyBkXow+78jwp Kul50aWMnlDhF3/H2C7uFGmezvWGgBzDMM7NRo8uy3pCHlJ8vvv1DgTaIGzDf82pShto qnBQ== Received: by 10.220.240.194 with SMTP id lb2mr13438060vcb.60.1340280903743; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:15:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.172.199 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:14:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> From: Matthias Gamsjager Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:14:33 +0200 Message-ID: To: Hooman Fazaeli Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:15:04 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Hooman Fazaeli wrote: > Dear community > > In the past, I built a 8TB ZFS log server on freebsd 7.4. > However, the system experienced instablility after long up times. > My main motive to use ZFS was UFS inability to support large > file systems. > > Now, I want to the same thing on 8.3 and wanted to know > your opinion on ZFS stability. Is there any success story using > ZFS in 24x7, large volume, heavy duty servers? Is there any > other option other than ZFS to build larger than 2TB file systems? > > > > Like I said. It depends. Could you give a better description about the expected work load. (DB, NFS filer etc) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:15:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B4C1106567A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:15:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65C968FC1A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:15:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.36]) by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2012 08:15:49 -0400 Received: from smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.104]) by mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 4.3.4-GA) with ESMTP id BUZ70354; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:15:48 -0400 Received: from 209-6-86-84.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) ([209.6.86.84]) by smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2012 08:15:47 -0400 From: Robert Huff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <20451.4211.711422.718539@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:15:47 -0400 To: Fred Morcos In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" XEmacs Lucid X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:15:51 -0000 Fred Morcos writes: > q) Is it possible to run a FreeBSD system without much building? > In other words, can I survive by depending on packages and only > resorting to ports when really needed? Mostly, yes. There are down-sides, but if you're building a client where specific functionality is not needed and performance is not crucial - yes. > 1. Too often, core system components break (especially with every > Linux kernel release). > 1. Yesterday I spent 30 minutes until my webcam worked, dealing with > v4l, gstreamer and cheese. > 2. The USB3 port in my laptop used to work as USB2 (never as USB3), > not anymore, it's now completely useless and doesn't react to > anything. To work in FreeBSD-land, you're going to need to understand the difference between the system and the ports. Also, the difference between CURRENT and STABLE releases. See the Handbook for more information. > 2. Sudden drastic changes that are deviating from simplicity. > 1. The sudden flood of daemons that are designed to do everything > for me, without giving me much say in the matter. My computer is > supposed to help me, not decide for me or replace me. Not much of this. > 2. Those daemons are hard to get rid of and are tightly integrated > into higher-level components in the stack (ie, into the desktop > environment). > > Those are dbus, hal, udev, udisks, upower, pulseaudio, systemd, > consolekit and policykit. Hal and dbus are used by a fair number of programs; many can be compiled not to used them, with varying consequences. As for the others: on a system with 882 ports installed, 44 use pulseaudio, 61 use consolekit and 62 use policykit. (Porbably a high degree of overlap there.) > 5. I think many of the developers of those components are trying to > reach a Mac-like experience? I am not against that in any way, but > it needs to be working well. Everything is a work in progress. :-) > q) Does ZFS make sense on a laptop? Any advantages of using it over > USF with J+SU? I am not interested in any striping or mirroring on > the laptops, but the compression features is very attractive for the > HDDs in the first laptop. I am given to understand ZFS can do some wonderful things ... but uses a _lot_ of memory, which may be unacceptable. > q) Can I live with a desktop environment (Gnome or KDE) and desktop > applications (Firefox, Libreoffice, etc) by relying only on > packages? Yes, assuming you're willing to live with the default options for each. Note: there may be ports whose packages are - for various reasons - not of the most recent version. > q) I noticed all file/data-sizes are in bytes (ls, dd, etc), is > there a way to change that system-wide to be in human-readable > format? Check out the BLOCKSIZE environment variable, and the -H/-h setting to individual programs. > q) Is there a tool that can test a set of mirrors for connection time > and speed (for packages and ports)? Analogous to Archlinux's > rankmirrors? sysutils/fastest_cvsup > q) I noticed in the ports collection that there were some outdated > packages (skype-2.2, gimp-2.6), should I report that and where? (A > PR?) Generally - the right people know. What they don't know is when they will have the time (and in some cases, motivation) to import (and test) the latest version. Anyone can submit patches. The default person in charge of dealing with patches is the "maintainer", who can be identified by going to the port directory and doing "make MAINTAINER". Talking to the maintainer about new versions and trouble with old versions is both polite and (usually) more efficient. (For some large projects - Gnome, KDE, Mozilla, Java, etc. - the maintainer is a team.) Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:19:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE2D51065689 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:19:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C9CB8FC12 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:19:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.187.76.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LCJBat010216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:19:11 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q5LCJBat010216 Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/q5LCJBat010216; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none Message-ID: <4FE3113E.6080104@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:19:10 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fred Morcos References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigFF65FD3C0D423367ABD5D1AA" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.5 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, Walter Hurry Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:19:15 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigFF65FD3C0D423367ABD5D1AA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 21/06/2012 12:24, Fred Morcos wrote: > q) I am currently considering 3 disks for a home micro-server, with > ZFS striping with the third disk being a parity disk. In case I decide > to buy a fourth disk in the future and add it to the pool, is ZFS > capable of re-structuring the data on-the-fly to have 2 sets of > striping (without parity, so 2 disks each) and on top of that a > mirror? Analogous to the following: >=20 > +-------------------------------+ > | Stripe2 mirrors Stripe1 | > +---------------+---------------+ > | Stripe1 | Stripe2 | > +-------+-------+-------+-------+ > | Disk1 | Disk2 | Disk3 | Disk4 | > +-------+-------+-------+-------+ Just picking one of your questions arbitrarily -- not that there's anything wrong with the others, but this I had to comment on. And the comment is: Don't do it like that. viz. Don't mirror the stripes: stripe the mirrors instead. +-------------------------------+ | Stripe | +---------------+---------------+ | Mirror1 | Mirror2 | +-------+-------+-------+-------+ | Disk1 | Disk2 | Disk3 | Disk4 | +-------+-------+-------+-------+ Why this way? Well, consider what happens if one of your disks fails. With your original plan (RAID0+1): A failed disk in a stripe immediately takes the whole stripe out of action, so you're left operating on only two drives and you have no resilience to further failures. With my plan (RAID10): A failed drive means you lose resilience in one of the mirrors -- the other mirror can carry on as usual, and you will still be making full use of all the remaining drives. It's also faster to recover when you replace the failed drive -- you only have to resilver one disk's worth. Now, your actual question: can you convert a RAIDz (which is what I assume you mean by "with the third disk being a parity disk") to a RAID10 transparently? No. You can add another vdev (ie. a disk, mirrored pair or RAIDz group) to expand the size, but you can't radically rearrange the devices in your zpool without manual intervention= =2E What you can do is: add your new disk to the system, and remove one drive from your RAIDz (so the RAIDz is running in degraded mode). You can create a new zpool from those two disks -- temporarily as a RAID0 stripe across the pair. You can then do 'zfs send' | 'zfs receive' to copy your filesystem contents over to the new zpool. Reboot so the system is running live on the new zpool, destroy the old zpool and then insert those drives into the new zpool so they mirror drives already ther= e. That's a lot of copying stuff around, and all the while you won't have any resilience against disk failure. Plenty of scope for disastrous errors. Make sure you have very good backups. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey --------------enigFF65FD3C0D423367ABD5D1AA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/jET4ACgkQ8Mjk52CukIxjNQCgkkBg8DL7IIfePT21TvtQ91cr ZGkAn2H/AOiOlRJ72aS40UcOYXcnKMCh =T6Y7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigFF65FD3C0D423367ABD5D1AA-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:23:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2A9A10656D1 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:23:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mgamsjager@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 705718FC1E for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:23:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcbfy7 with SMTP id fy7so341468vcb.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:23:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=aH7dv5sp3u4OeBAQ9DUE3fd/M+RsyVyxD2ptmlDQ0kI=; b=xp7jlbo2BkPjbJ+oSpQRCiIO246EgqVXsSAVrOLyVsB8mGZPSLC1bAtQHc8VAE1Ynm k0XdirJWMRyuOlMuDVoB08qiNidEIKlMFqyqIven5F27ey+axKwy/mR5HEiMZhlvCl1S cFDVijUdHoyhviLn3boBP08IUg0tpArFwvXFADGeSM2oObBBT1QjUMM1NUtJmtIfNB6t Bouo53ZJHy+B0DgEk9KYJKZldGienPhrOa97Xf8AZUagtAmHLPJ9NVRWuv4Pgd10kCvF 4/h/Mk30+XI01YmRdPv+uWU0kD9JM3zNT3tJj1fbJbp/TyrHQnJtn7tOSUXZ7p1Hh++L FhoA== Received: by 10.52.95.171 with SMTP id dl11mr10859888vdb.120.1340281431315; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:23:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.172.199 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:23:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> From: Matthias Gamsjager Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:23:21 +0200 Message-ID: To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Kaya Saman , FreeBSD Questions , Hooman Fazaeli Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:24:00 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Wojciech Puchar < wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote: > For my various OpenSource projects, I have deployed a 36TB file system >> which is fine and stable running 24/7. Additionally at home I use 4TB >> (2x 2TB) + 8TB (2x 4TB) on a machine with 4GB RAM.... this has been up >> for 3 years with minimum reboot! >> > > Good. There are some companies that make for living recovering data from > "unbreakable" ZFS :) > > You may be just lucky. or they will make some money. > > And there are many happy users with ZFS (fbsd and opensolaris/solaris). Guess they are all wrong. I really want to see your face when you fsck 48TB w/o ffs+j (since that is so young must be immature :S ) of data with the phone ring non stop with customers who want to use their data again. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:34:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E63E5106566B; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:34:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50B8B8FC1E; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:34:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LCYK8S002545; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:34:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LCYJqt002542; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:34:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:34:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Matthew Seaman In-Reply-To: <4FE3113E.6080104@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: References: <4FE3113E.6080104@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:34:20 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Fred Morcos , Walter Hurry Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:34:24 -0000 > +-------------------------------+ > | Stripe | > +---------------+---------------+ > | Mirror1 | Mirror2 | > +-------+-------+-------+-------+ > | Disk1 | Disk2 | Disk3 | Disk4 | > +-------+-------+-------+-------+ true. but there are mirror/stripe layout that is quite better in performance than yours where writes are not dominant ;) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 12:39:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52E031065675 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:39:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@pki2.com) Received: from btw.pki2.com (btw.pki2.com [IPv6:2001:470:a:6fd::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E6B8FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:39:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by btw.pki2.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LCd2t0074087; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:39:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@pki2.com) From: Dennis Glatting To: Hooman Fazaeli In-Reply-To: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 05:39:02 -0700 Message-ID: <1340282342.19296.47.camel@btw.pki2.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-yoursite-MailScanner-Information: Dennis Glatting X-yoursite-MailScanner-ID: q5LCd2t0074087 X-yoursite-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: freebsd@pki2.com Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:39:14 -0000 On Thu, 2012-06-21 at 12:03 +0430, Hooman Fazaeli wrote: > Dear community > > In the past, I built a 8TB ZFS log server on freebsd 7.4. > However, the system experienced instablility after long up times. > My main motive to use ZFS was UFS inability to support large > file systems. > > Now, I want to the same thing on 8.3 and wanted to know > your opinion on ZFS stability. Is there any success story using > ZFS in 24x7, large volume, heavy duty servers? Is there any > other option other than ZFS to build larger than 2TB file systems? > System 1: 32 cores, Interlagos, 64GB, 18TB RAIDz1 System 2: 64 cores, Interlagos, 128GB, 15TB RAIDz1 System 3: 8 cores, Bulldozer, 16GB, 27TB RAIDz2 Those are the main volumes on those systems. There are smaller ZFS volumes. I have other systems also ZFS (total of seven systems), typically with one or more 5-10TB RAIDz1 volumes. All systems RELENG_9. Stable? Yes. Be sure you have up-to-date FreeBSD kernel and your HBA firmware is up-to-date. Generally I use LSI 9211 cards. That said, the weak point is the drives. For example, one system has 6 Hitachi 4TB drives and there are three more in other systems -- 30% failure rate within one year. I've also had several failures with Seagate drives across two years. Zero failures with WD drives (12 drives in one ZFS array, IIRC) however those are slower, cheap drives. I am also working with compressed volumes because my data is very large and highly compressable. Compressed volumes, as you would expect, has a significant kernel performance impact depending on what you are doing. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 13:02:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7472D106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:02:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from weldon@excelsusphoto.com) Received: from veyron.excelsus.com (veyron.excelsus.com [74.93.113.250]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 449328FC14 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:02:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by veyron.excelsus.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 536865A1F for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from veyron.excelsus.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (veyron.excelsus.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 69282-01 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by veyron.excelsus.com (Postfix, from userid 80) id A58C15A19; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:55:29 -0400 (EDT) To: X-PHP-Script: webmail.excelsus.com/index.php for 165.214.14.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:55:29 -0500 From: weldon@excelsusphoto.com In-Reply-To: <1340282342.19296.47.camel@btw.pki2.com> References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <1340282342.19296.47.camel@btw.pki2.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: weldon@excelsusphoto.com User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/ X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:02:38 -0000 On 21.06.2012 07:39, Dennis Glatting wrote: > > Stable? Yes. Be sure you have up-to-date FreeBSD kernel and your HBA > firmware is up-to-date. Generally I use LSI 9211 cards. > Does the 9211 support JBOD (complete plain disks, no RAID or single disk RAID mess)? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 13:08:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ECB6106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:08:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erich@alogreentechnologies.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2F98FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:08:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5LD82sP029038; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:08:03 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky Organization: ALO Green Technologies To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:08:00 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206212008.00577.erich@alogreentechnologies.com> Cc: Wojciech Puchar , Fred Morcos , Walter Hurry Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:08:10 -0000 Hi, On Thursday 21 June 2012 18:24:26 Fred Morcos wrote: > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Wojciech Puchar > > q) Is it possible to run a FreeBSD system without much building? In > other words, can I survive by depending on packages and only resorting > to ports when really needed? you can run both the operating system and the ports from prebuilt binaries. > > What set me off, and got me tired of dealing with Linux-based systems > is a set of patterns that have been repeating over for some years > now. Generally: > > 1. Too often, core system components break (especially with every > Linux kernel release). You will not find this kind of chaos here. Maybe a hint. I leave always one big release out. With other words. If you start now with 9, you do not have to move to 10 but you can stick with 9 until 11 comes out. You do not even have to upgrade at the spot. > 1. Yesterday I spent 30 minutes until my webcam worked, dealing with > v4l, gstreamer and cheese. > 2. The USB3 port in my laptop used to work as USB2 (never as USB3), > not anymore, it's now completely useless and doesn't react to > anything. Things like this happened in the past too. But it is very, very rare and happens most likely with older hardware and not new one. > 2. Sudden drastic changes that are deviating from simplicity. > 1. The sudden flood of daemons that are designed to do everything > for me, without giving me much say in the matter. My computer is > supposed to help me, not decide for me or replace me. Welcome to Linux. > 2. Those daemons are hard to get rid of and are tightly integrated > into higher-level components in the stack (ie, into the desktop > environment). > 3. Those daemons are increasingly hard and obscure to configure > (ie, huge XML files, complex hierarchies, etc). This was avoided here. > 3. Due to having to run and interact with each other all the time, > those daemons are sucking the life out of my laptop battery > (according to powertop). I do not wonder. On the other side, power management is not the best on FreeBSD. > 4. Probably other frustrations that I have forgotten about. > 5. I think many of the developers of those components are trying to > reach a Mac-like experience? I am not against that in any way, but > it needs to be working well. FreeBSD has here one simple advantage. It is not integrated by any means into a GUI. > > Those are dbus, hal, udev, udisks, upower, pulseaudio, systemd, > consolekit and policykit. Said to say but these friends are also available here. They are not part of FreeBSD and some can be avoided. > > I am aware that those solutions are there to solve complex problems > (thus their inherent complexity) and that many bright people with a > lot of experience have thought about them and worked on those > projects. My frustration is that those solutions are: > > 1. At the cost of making simple tasks more complex. > 2. Replacing or conflicting with the previously existing solution. > 3. Sometimes very unstable and unusable. > I think you see here Linux as a distribution. Things like this are avoided with FreeBSD itself but not wit the ports. The ports have nothing much to do with FreeBSD except that they work on FreeBSD. > q) Where does the FreeBSD project stand on this matter? From what I > noticed is that the base system seems to adhere to the tranditional > flat text files for configuration and simple tools that do a good job, > leaving it up to the user to combine those small tools to create > larger, more complex ones (a UNIX inheritance). > I read sometime comments that people want to make it more complex. > q) Is a FreeBSD stable base system with "current" high-level > components possible? Will it avoid the issues I experienced on > Linux-based systems? Yes and no. As an example. I have had to run Fedora 16 on my x220 for some reasons. I was surprised how fast it is when I moved yesterday to FreeBSD. Some of the differences have to do with the deamons as you described above. > > My goal > > I have two laptops (Asus N73JQ, Asus U36S) which I use as work > machines. Power efficiency is very important, efficient disk access > too. Suspend to ram and hiberation would be nice to have but are not > utterly important. > > q) I would assume UFS with J+SU is "fast enough" for a laptop? I use UFS since 2004/5 on laptops. > > q) Does ZFS make sense on a laptop? Any advantages of using it over > USF with J+SU? I am not interested in any striping or mirroring on > the laptops, but the compression features is very attractive for the > HDDs in the first laptop. It did not make sense for me. > > q) The second laptop has an SSD, would UFS with/without J and > with/without SU or ZFS make more sense for it? > > q) Can I live with a desktop environment (Gnome or KDE) and desktop > applications (Firefox, Libreoffice, etc) by relying only on packages? > It should work when you start off from the release versions. > q) Does ntfs-3g from ports work reliably with external HDDs or USB > flash drives with read and write support? I would like to hear > personal experiences with that. I used it for some time and never faced problems. I stopped using it when I moved my last disk to UFS. > > q) Does the NVIDIA binary driver work reliably? I would like to hear > personal experiences with that. I have one machine with the nVidia driver from ports running. I never installed the driver from nVidia. It runs for me since 2010 without any problems. > > I am also planning to setup a micro-server for home use (either a > ready-built one or by simply building a PC and using it as a server), > questions about that will come later. The main use of it would be > hosting my multimedia, streaming music and making backups of the > laptops on it (cron + rsync). Also, maybe some web/ftp and git > servers. FreeBSD will do this job. > > Initial impressions > > I installed the base system into Virtualbox and everything works quite > well. Everything is so... clean, and tidy, and consistent, and > simple. Very well thought out. I am also very impressed with the > amount of properly written man pages and with the handbook. I would > like to thank and congratulate all of the people who work on the > FreeBSD base system, a true masterpiece. Yes, felt that the man pages of the Fedora installation I have had have been so often useless. > > Setting up and installation > > q) Does the bsdinstall align partitions to device blocks by default > for optimal speed? If not, I have found that I can use gpart with -a > and -b which will require me to calculate the start and end offsets of > each partition manually. Is there a tool that can automatically do > that for me? > I do not know. > q) Is it possible to get native resolution on the console? I played > with vesa and vidcontrol but could never get what I wanted. Native > resolution would require KMS? It depends on the graphic card? Do you notebooks use the Intel GPU? If it is so, be ready for some smaller issues. Be also ready for 10. > > q) How can I set proxy settings system-wide? Same for PACKAGESITE (for > the pkg_* tools), how can I set a mirror system-wide? /etc/profile? > I use environment variables. Check man ports for all options. > q) I noticed all file/data-sizes are in bytes (ls, dd, etc), is there > a way to change that system-wide to be in human-readable format? Yes, again man ls etc are your friends. > > System > > To assess my understanding, the system is split into kernel, base, > documentation, games, lib32 (on 64-bit systems) and ports. There is > another split between base and ports where base includes everything > previously mentioned minus ports. Now, there are 3 "branches" of the > base system: RELEASE, STABLE and CURRENT. RELEASE means 9.0 and stays > that way until 10.0 is released. STABLE means 9.0, 9.1, 9.2, > etc. CURRENT means "trunk" in SVN terms. Is all that correct? Also, > when somewhere is mentioned `make world', this means to rebuild all > installed ports which doesn't include base, I assume? > Make world compiles on the world of the base system. Never forget, that the ports have nothing to do with FreeBSD in that sense. > q) The files in /etc/rc.d are all executable, from my understanding, > those files will get executed and it is their duty to check the > variable `_enable' for whether they should start or > not. Wouldn't it be more efficient to chmod -x or +x them to > disable/enable? To let the chaos rule? No, it is some much more flexible to control the behaviour in a single file. > > q) What is analogous to /etc/rc.local from Linux-based systems? > > q) Is there something analogous to the Linux magic sysrq key? > > Ports and packages > > I must say, the ports collection being built on makefiles was a > welcome enlightenment, it just, naturally, made sense. The *-recursive > make targets are a blessing, especially for configs. > > q) Is there a tool that can test a set of mirrors for connection time > and speed (for packages and ports)? Analogous to Archlinux's > rankmirrors? > > q) Is it possible for the pkg_* tools (especially pkg_add -r) to > display progress? > > q) I noticed in the ports collection that there were some outdated > packages (skype-2.2, gimp-2.6), should I report that and where? (A > PR?) > > q) Is it possible to have the ports system compile into an mfs (to > avoid disk access)? > > q) Is it possible to have the user asked to change their password the > first time they log in (using an OTP) in a simple way? I looked at > OPIE but it seems to be much more complex than what I need. > > GEOM and filesystems > > >From what I could understand, the GEOM layer only supports read-only > > compression. Which makes (to me) ZFS an attractive filesystem for slow > HDDs (on the first laptop). Do not forget the overhead. I hope that other are able to answer the questions I could not. Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 13:38:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1B5010656D1 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:38:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 420DD8FC15 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:38:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LDcLst002916; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:38:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LDcLcV002913; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:38:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:38:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Erich Dollansky In-Reply-To: <201206212008.00577.erich@alogreentechnologies.com> Message-ID: References: <201206212008.00577.erich@alogreentechnologies.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:38:21 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Fred Morcos , Walter Hurry Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:38:28 -0000 > Maybe a hint. I leave always one big release out. With other words. If you > start now with 9, you do not have to move to 10 but you can stick with 9 until > 11 comes out. You do not even have to upgrade at the spot. my as i do - i for now run FreeBSD 8, and will run 9 when it will be needed with new hardware (drivers) or it will have clearly noticable adventages of speed and/or functionality. > I think you see here Linux as a distribution. Things like this are avoided > with FreeBSD itself but not wit the ports. The ports have nothing much to do > with FreeBSD except that they work on FreeBSD. repeating once again. FreeBSD base system is one complete and consistent thing. ports are another. If one run program X under linux, it will be the same program X under FreeBSD. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 13:39:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C0521065676 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:39:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7268FC14 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:39:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LDd9Ys002922; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:39:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LDd9wZ002919; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:39:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:39:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Dennis Glatting In-Reply-To: <1340282342.19296.47.camel@btw.pki2.com> Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <1340282342.19296.47.camel@btw.pki2.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:39:09 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions , Hooman Fazaeli Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:39:13 -0000 > System 1: 32 cores, Interlagos, 64GB, 18TB RAIDz1 > System 2: 64 cores, Interlagos, 128GB, 15TB RAIDz1 > System 3: 8 cores, Bulldozer, 16GB, 27TB RAIDz2 what these systems do? (no details, just rough information) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 13:41:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 575E61065674 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:41:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from odhiambo@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDF4F8FC25 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:41:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so629304wer.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:41:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=b5OcUmj+2ObYi3Lj/Bad2cfnrh+dPrGDuiacGejDXiY=; b=LqEzpU+DN5+6bS2s6eaRekS4W9o9ZPToAIZAi//LE1c7RkpKNFfx5hpmt9Y6AUBq9L 68XtBxlaggImMsQOicZdRKPrq907cRiR0uHJJKtHMIh8CM2EPptMut+zVId6OfK3/foY ZCjqxEgTpMSig8CGd72uONI7A1xSPb8AcCQztOfM8A/Q5wWbUmiULc3TrmeE1XU5uTZo eeDEE7skoEytat+8Twf45a5b2WawIGa5fjqPlRxqXXQDNiITuExAcYhJnWa4PWFBLOdj RB4JlE6IeBsU4AMEZh8+v9CLkTYOvskd3gUF2du0YbBVZTwRc0ChRE72TWaPzVNSrH3k uoww== Received: by 10.180.106.137 with SMTP id gu9mr20437318wib.20.1340286071725; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:41:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.75.151 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:40:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Odhiambo Washington Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:40:31 +0300 Message-ID: To: questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: A bash scripting question X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:41:13 -0000 How Can I simplify/perfect the following script, so that I read _ALL_ the lines in the file and act on the content as shown below, so that I do not have to specifiy an action per line? This below is doing exactly what i need BUT reading one line at a time untill the 10th line, if i want more i add manually... This might help some1 someday! But if there is a way to perfect it please do so..... #!/usr/local/bin/bash smsfile=email_to_sms `grep Subject /var/spool/mail/sms >>$smsfile` if [[ -s $smsfile ]] ; then cat /dev/null > /var/spool/mail/sms sed -i 's/Subject: //g' $smsfile echo `sed -n '1p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==1 {print $1}' $smsfile` echo `sed -n '2p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==2 {print $1}' $smsfile` echo `sed -n '3p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==3 {print $1}' $smsfile` echo `sed -n '4p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==4 {print $1}' $smsfile` echo `sed -n '5p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==5 {print $1}' $smsfile` echo `sed -n '6p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==6 {print $1}' $smsfile` echo `sed -n '7p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==7 {print $1}' $smsfile` echo `sed -n '8p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==8 {print $1}' $smsfile` echo `sed -n '9p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==9 {print $1}' $smsfile` echo `sed -n '10p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==10 {print $1}' $smsfile` else echo "***********Sorry the SMS FILE "$smsfile" is empty.************" fi gammu-smsd start cat email_to_sms >> email_to_sms2 cat /dev/null > email_to_sms -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 13:44:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED5861065677 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:44:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59CA68FC1D for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:44:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LDi0SD002947; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:44:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LDi04B002937; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:44:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:43:59 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Matthias Gamsjager In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:44:00 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Kaya Saman , FreeBSD Questions , Hooman Fazaeli Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:44:04 -0000 > I really want to see your face when you fsck 48TB w/o ffs+j (since that is > so young must be immature :S ) of data with the phone ring non stop with Even if ZFS would be the only filesystem in existence i would make one per 2 disks (single mirror). No matter what's going on, what do you prefer in case say - double disk failure from one mirror on 48 disk systems? losing completely data of 1/24 of users (and then restoring that amount from backups), or losing randomly chosen 1/24 of files from whole system? answer yourself. With UFS of course i would have single disk fsck time - less than a hour. which CAN be done out of work hours with soft updates. i normally turn off automatic fsck for large data filesystems, and if crash happened i run it after/before work hours. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 13:59:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19D25106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:59:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mgamsjager@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB3298FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:59:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcbfy7 with SMTP id fy7so409881vcb.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:59:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=IDj7gnJSotS4j+GZbKOkJXT97/uoRO5Gdgs3s8Y0fbU=; b=NfbAIGgGOrb+NssPNizZYaXWzu3olUdv+o96nr8BBorApZ6i4J4sNV0IagaYGjPQL6 38ERVmi/Pm5O23erfJh6BROYvPFU/SF+jKE/0CLM51FW6jmf/JybmW0AkBqYckTXutnz vtrrrsDFrg7MfnRIZl/jePE2GND9gSm+JO+ykOFyBMUMF3XzJgJva4mPGFcdgJ1qffyB CNPRK8NEDUo4L6Iu3bgcbSLgZyh1hiq1c1AnMiZv1vhBZQgOHq2vepxeKKvFq1Ez/yui zDMddYZX25haKMx7RDlxFyCfFV9EA53r3KBVj86IeinBxJ+Br18s8Xa7bVRpE9M3iL8K O1PA== Received: by 10.52.21.229 with SMTP id y5mr11150292vde.68.1340287151167; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:59:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.172.199 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 06:58:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> From: Matthias Gamsjager Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:58:40 +0200 Message-ID: To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Kaya Saman , FreeBSD Questions , Hooman Fazaeli Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:59:12 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Wojciech Puchar < wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote: > I really want to see your face when you fsck 48TB w/o ffs+j (since that is >> so young must be immature :S ) of data with the phone ring non stop with >> > > Even if ZFS would be the only filesystem in existence i would make one per > 2 disks (single mirror). > > No matter what's going on, what do you prefer in case say - double disk > failure from one mirror on 48 disk systems? > > losing completely data of 1/24 of users (and then restoring that amount > from backups), or losing randomly chosen 1/24 of files from whole system? > > answer yourself. > Sorry but I don;t follow you right there. with 48 disks you would not mirror 24vs24. I will perform very well but there is too much risk in that. you would rather go with a raidz2 stripe sets. > > With UFS of course i would have single disk fsck time - less than a hour. > which CAN be done out of work hours with soft updates. > > i normally turn off automatic fsck for large data filesystems, and if > crash happened i run it after/before work hours. > > > raid is not a backup. You can loose data with any configuration or fs. so like in the compiler discussion. There is no perfect something in this world. It's always a tradeoff. with ZFS you have access to most advanced techniques and I believe that data is most safe with raidz3 as it can be. UFS cant match that and you have to rely on a raidcontroller which can screw up your data as well. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 14:13:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 412281065673 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:13:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hoomanfazaeli@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8DF48FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:13:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so335434eek.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:13:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BICU8iacUJSjj0K/50hUNPG2ImDbNi+E7CsK5ifsoIA=; b=wybUHAtV8uwT6faAQkwoTuYv4Ix4iSdTFjKpGJ6kbV1zEK18wcnx6Z84jOONNIbFjl RxzktVXgHPC4i/QF+clyGdq3RVO+gx+lwSHUj5hiM9S5pyRbAy6JpywLBEpezmi9RFnu hwsUJkAsGrWMsF1v2mpvIrKUIzP9UJCGyTMFpjPO8yQdRU/6FqNNA5JGdeTaXKdMxlGn 2vkx5Kac7wDDKTeGJeHklSpYKs3EJLQiIGoizgd/iXpRR7nVnjMB8EYguGcXb6vA3pDN YNo3wKsxSWGH7t7+29pJKv6FCdB90BhIs6tAt5bnlPvotMi0V9q5YzVGE51u/l/a5Onv rLPQ== Received: by 10.14.48.77 with SMTP id u53mr6229620eeb.87.1340288032478; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([213.217.59.99]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a16sm103312240eeg.0.2012.06.21.07.13.49 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE32C16.3050205@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:43:42 +0430 From: Hooman Fazaeli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.28) Gecko/20120306 Thunderbird/3.1.20 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:13:54 -0000 On 6/21/2012 4:22 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. > And it works fast. > What options are there for >2TB file systems with UFS? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 14:22:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D5B1106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:22:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4F1C8FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:22:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LEMqnj003111; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:22:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LEMqDB003108; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:22:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:22:52 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Matthias Gamsjager In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="2456600518-150860120-1340288572=:3092" X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:22:52 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Kaya Saman , FreeBSD Questions , Hooman Fazaeli Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:22:56 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --2456600518-150860120-1340288572=:3092 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > > answer yourself. > > > Sorry but I don;t follow you right there. with 48 disks you would not mirror 24vs24. if i wasn't clear enough then i would it like that (with UFS), and assuming disks are named disk0....disk48, and that i have at least one more disk for system code, often acessed data etc (SSD would be fine), while these 48 disks store user/whatever data. gmirror label ...options... mirror1 /dev/disk0 /dev/disk1 gmirror label ...options... mirror2 /dev/disk2 /dev/disk3 . . . gmirror label ...options... mirror24 /dev/disk46 /dev/disk47 then newfs etc.. and mounted as 24 filesystems. eg. /home1.../home24 then decide how to spread things properly. this depend of your needs. --2456600518-150860120-1340288572=:3092-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 14:24:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D2321065673 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:24:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E481E8FC19 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:24:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LEONQx003130; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:24:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LEONEN003127; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:24:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:24:23 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Hooman Fazaeli In-Reply-To: <4FE32C16.3050205@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <4FE32C16.3050205@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:24:24 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:24:27 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Hooman Fazaeli wrote: > On 6/21/2012 4:22 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. >> And it works fast. >> > What options are there for >2TB file systems with UFS? > the same as for <2TB filesystems. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 14:31:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E5FC1065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:31:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcigar@ulb.ac.be) Received: from relaygateway01.edpnet.net (relaygateway01.edpnet.net [212.71.1.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92B848FC17 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:31:49 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApMBAMov40/V26ak/2dsb2JhbAANOLhyAQEBBAEBATUWIBsLGAkQAQETDwIWAQkmDgUCBAEBAQEZBIVwggWxDIkEiy4CGIJnDQSDCwOTA4M5hBaNOoFd X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,451,1336341600"; d="scan'208";a="93866228" Received: from 213.219.166.164.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net (HELO [192.168.0.10]) ([213.219.166.164]) by relaygateway01.edpnet.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2012 16:30:13 +0200 Message-ID: <4FE32FF5.60603@ulb.ac.be> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:30:13 +0200 From: Julien Cigar User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120603 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:31:50 -0000 One interesting feature of ZFS if it's block checksum: all reads and writes include block checksum, so it can easily detect situations where, for example, data is quietly corrupted by RAM. This feature is very important for databases. On 06/21/2012 15:58, Matthias Gamsjager wrote: > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Wojciech Puchar< > wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote: > >> I really want to see your face when you fsck 48TB w/o ffs+j (since that is >>> so young must be immature :S ) of data with the phone ring non stop with >>> >> Even if ZFS would be the only filesystem in existence i would make one per >> 2 disks (single mirror). >> >> No matter what's going on, what do you prefer in case say - double disk >> failure from one mirror on 48 disk systems? >> >> losing completely data of 1/24 of users (and then restoring that amount >> from backups), or losing randomly chosen 1/24 of files from whole system? >> >> answer yourself. >> > Sorry but I don;t follow you right there. with 48 disks you would not > mirror 24vs24. I will perform very well but there is too much risk in that. > you would rather go with a raidz2 stripe sets. > > >> With UFS of course i would have single disk fsck time - less than a hour. >> which CAN be done out of work hours with soft updates. >> >> i normally turn off automatic fsck for large data filesystems, and if >> crash happened i run it after/before work hours. >> >> >> raid is not a backup. You can loose data with any configuration or fs. so > like in the compiler discussion. There is no perfect something in this > world. It's always a tradeoff. > with ZFS you have access to most advanced techniques and I believe that > data is most safe with raidz3 as it can be. UFS cant match that and you > have to rely on a raidcontroller which can screw up your data as well. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 14:33:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5659106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:33:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mgamsjager@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 642CB8FC22 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:33:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcbfy7 with SMTP id fy7so437487vcb.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:33:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=5ZGOz6OKvLr+2jExLoj85E/mZnlO0tgWJkrCBxRr2Kg=; b=PzQEXpc5m1QU+bSPikR2xjsURxRVxGqaMLNZGATJSK4cb1C7Vx8pHUIsVbSb3GY4te 9bHNynQhZXi3acg3HKHBB4HyRP8WTTltGaoDVagTSCL/LSLoQXC5SQFlD8+91Z1uWhY9 zxjzGB/gdw2cFFyj+0nLmo6ak6bT6Sazfb9beFBI48nEfbgrgbq8WIpPwamfLCPQwz4/ 7WdjoHFiqV9/TRLFEjIj6t1A86QoMQA5E2BS03t/slJHxQL8pYQlVA2eWQZKKPLx485X yjdz1eeDVLO53mkgFKY8mGnBYockL4I8bG5FvW1j3qry0GZeQ7hg6D2MviYECnM9Zhu4 +V/g== Received: by 10.52.28.71 with SMTP id z7mr5455206vdg.105.1340289200862; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:33:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.172.199 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:32:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> From: Matthias Gamsjager Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:32:49 +0200 Message-ID: To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:33:21 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Wojciech Puchar < wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote: > >> answer yourself. >> >> >> Sorry but I don;t follow you right there. with 48 disks you would not >> mirror 24vs24. >> > > if i wasn't clear enough then i would it like that (with UFS), and > assuming disks are named disk0....disk48, and that i have at least one more > disk for system code, often acessed data etc (SSD would be fine), while > these 48 disks store user/whatever data. > > gmirror label ...options... mirror1 /dev/disk0 /dev/disk1 > gmirror label ...options... mirror2 /dev/disk2 /dev/disk3 > . > . > . > gmirror label ...options... mirror24 /dev/disk46 /dev/disk47 > > then newfs etc.. and mounted as 24 filesystems. eg. /home1.../home24 > > then decide how to spread things properly. this depend of your needs. > > interesting idea but the options ZFS would give you are superior to this setup. But I have still not seen any evidence/facts that ZFS looses more data than UFS. Excluding user error which is 90% the reason data is lost. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 14:33:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7815A106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:33:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcigar@ulb.ac.be) Received: from relaygateway02.edpnet.net (relaygateway02.edpnet.net [212.71.1.211]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ABB68FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:33:49 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApMBAJQv40/V26ak/2dsb2JhbAANOLhyAQEBBAEBATUWIAoGCwsYCRYPCQMCAQIBFQEJJg4FAgQBAQEBGQSHdbEOiQSLLhqCZ4McA5MDgzmRUIFd X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,451,1336341600"; d="scan'208";a="88565166" Received: from 213.219.166.164.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net (HELO [192.168.0.10]) ([213.219.166.164]) by relaygateway02.edpnet.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2012 16:32:41 +0200 Message-ID: <4FE33089.1050609@ulb.ac.be> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:32:41 +0200 From: Julien Cigar User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120603 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <4FE32C16.3050205@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4FE32C16.3050205@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:33:50 -0000 On 06/21/2012 16:13, Hooman Fazaeli wrote: > On 6/21/2012 4:22 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. >> And it works fast. >> > What options are there for >2TB file systems with UFS? this should not be a problem if you use GPT + gpart (which is the way to go nowadays) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 14:37:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33C22106567D for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:37:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nec556@retena.com) Received: from resmaa12.ono.com (smtp12.ono.com [62.42.230.20]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AA538FC17 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:37:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from GogPortatil.retena.com (85.219.45.167) by resmaa12.ono.com (8.5.113) (authenticated as nec556@retena.com) id 4FA8826F00BC43C3 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:31:40 +0200 Message-ID: <4FA8826F00BC43C3@> (added by postmaster@resmaa12.ono.com) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:34:15 +0200 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Eduardo Morras Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 2012.0.2180 [2437/5082] Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:37:16 -0000 At 16:13 21/06/2012, you wrote: >On 6/21/2012 4:22 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. >>And it works fast. >What options are there for >2TB file systems with UFS? With UFS2 you can use file systems up to 2^73 (8 ZB). The problem is not UFS, but the old tools used to format the disk like fdisk and bsdlabel. For big file systems you must use gpart. The problem with file system recovery times when "the worst thing happens"(tm) is soluted/mitigated with su+j on FreeBSD9. HTH From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 14:42:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 815351065676 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:42:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dg@pki2.com) Received: from btw.pki2.com (btw.pki2.com [IPv6:2001:470:a:6fd::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED388FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:42:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by btw.pki2.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LEg4MJ084650; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:42:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg@pki2.com) From: Dennis Glatting To: weldon@excelsusphoto.com In-Reply-To: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <1340282342.19296.47.camel@btw.pki2.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:42:04 -0700 Message-ID: <1340289724.19296.52.camel@btw.pki2.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-yoursite-MailScanner-Information: Dennis Glatting X-yoursite-MailScanner-ID: q5LEg4MJ084650 X-yoursite-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: dg@pki2.com Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:42:22 -0000 On Thu, 2012-06-21 at 07:55 -0500, weldon@excelsusphoto.com wrote: > On 21.06.2012 07:39, Dennis Glatting wrote: > > > > > Stable? Yes. Be sure you have up-to-date FreeBSD kernel and your HBA > > firmware is up-to-date. Generally I use LSI 9211 cards. > > > > Does the 9211 support JBOD (complete plain disks, no RAID or single > disk RAID mess)? Typically I simply reburn them with IT firmware however I found under IR that a disk on an unconfigured port is seen by the kernel and usable but I haven't looked at any performance impact and I can't say whether that's a good idea. -- Dennis Glatting From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 14:44:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 641751065675 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:44:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46B58FC1E for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:44:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LEiToq003267; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:44:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LEiTCZ003264; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:44:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:44:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Julien Cigar In-Reply-To: <4FE32FF5.60603@ulb.ac.be> Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <4FE32FF5.60603@ulb.ac.be> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:44:29 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:44:33 -0000 > One interesting feature of ZFS if it's block checksum: all reads and writes > include block checksum, so it can easily detect situations where, for > example, data is quietly corrupted by RAM. you may be shocked but you are sometimes wrong. i already demostrated it and checksumming doesn't get any errors, and do write wrong data with right checksums :) it's quite easy to explain if one understand hardware details. Checksumming will protect you from - failed SATA/SAS port, on-disk controller that returns bad data as good. This is actually really rare case. i never seen that, but maybe it happens. - some types of DRAM failure - but not all. Actually just a small fraction because DRAM failure like that would bring your system to crash so quickly that you are unlikely to get big data corruption. Common case with DRAM memory is that after you write to it, keeps right data some time and RARELY flips some bit later in spite of refresh. With this type you may run your machine for hours, even days or longer. And ZFS would calculate proper checksum of wrong data and will write it to disk. This is the reason i keep few failed DIMMs - for testing how different software behaves on broken machine. UFS resulted in few corrupted files after half a day of heavy work and 4 crashes. fsck always recovered things well (of course "unexpected softupdate inconsistency....") ZFS survived 2 crashes. After third it panicked on startup. Of course - no zfs_fsck. And no possibility of making really good zfs_fsck because of data layout, at least not easy. > This feature is very important for databases. is data integrity not important for the rest? :) Still - disks itself perform quite heavy ECC and both SATA and SAS ports. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 14:47:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA1B1065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:47:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 473AA8FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:47:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LEl1rV003279; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:47:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LEl1RL003276; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:47:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:47:01 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Matthias Gamsjager In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:47:01 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:47:05 -0000 >> >> > interesting idea but the options ZFS would give you are superior to this > setup. Were you just unable to understand my setup or a reasons to do this? please reread former post and possibly ask again if you don't understand the reasons. I ignore performance issues completely for now. > But I have still not seen any evidence/facts that ZFS looses more > data than UFS. And you've never seen me, yet i still exist. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 14:52:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B718106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:52:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE3548FC19 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:52:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LEqPXA003296; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:52:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LEqPbW003293; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:52:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:52:25 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Eduardo Morras In-Reply-To: <4FA8826F00BC43C3@> (added by postmaster@resmaa12.ono.com) Message-ID: References: <4FA8826F00BC43C3@> (added by postmaster@resmaa12.ono.com) User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:52:26 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:52:29 -0000 > > With UFS2 you can use file systems up to 2^73 (8 ZB). The problem is not UFS, > but the old tools used to format the disk like fdisk and bsdlabel. For big > file systems you must use gpart. true. or not using anything at all (and put filesystem directly on whole device/mirror). > The problem with file system recovery times when "the worst thing > happens"(tm) is soluted/mitigated with su+j on FreeBSD9. True but i don't believe completely in SU+J. i use it - eg on my private backup disk. but do full fsck sometimes. and usually few, but nonzero amount of errors are corrected. but with just SU it is easy to solve. Disable fsck on boot at all. softupdates allow that risk without problems. then do fsck at time when full or partial system outage can be tolerated - after work hours. This is my solution used everywhere. of course fsck on 100TB filesystem will be too slow. But it is implementation problem, and could be improved. but i would not recommend making single virtual device (gmirror/gstripe or dedicated hardware matrix controller) from too many disks because of the risk. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 15:01:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73D9B1065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:01:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mgamsjager@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 191358FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:01:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vbmv11 with SMTP id v11so459533vbm.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:01:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=CsefiV3RQbk2WzQGO9j9U4ckmsGtYHqBUUO16bRtMzQ=; b=xm4rCaJHQ0j18/GUHyBBcxO1TubkVA+OCg4wg/iBlnhADmRub0emXTtZZLOE/IBUSN uh/j1Bdigdtymi2jZB4k+a+7KV2yTtL5iqi/Ya+trTYXkW/fhJVnDK/XQSZfCNa9US3Q zHtkts5bLnIlyvvl4vJYs8ob3SXMzspsKRN0JaBsCach4rqkya/Hog2h5MMjIBwohjv1 pAS2Qh7nl/xxHZG6A9UUoynESY69hzXV8vIsvlhdzLf/DvgPv+arO4tuG6Y8ri/mVnqg nPobC/ms4LZSF0hwOmxFip15GleO4Yy1BLk0Y7TKhk+LUJ0FCBrGnJxC0JJesxzwnO7J tu+Q== Received: by 10.220.240.194 with SMTP id lb2mr13667084vcb.60.1340290913324; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:01:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.172.199 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:01:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> From: Matthias Gamsjager Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:01:20 +0200 Message-ID: To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:01:54 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Wojciech Puchar < wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote: > >>> >>> interesting idea but the options ZFS would give you are superior to this >> setup. >> > > Were you just unable to understand my setup or a reasons to do this? > > please reread former post and possibly ask again if you don't understand > the reasons. > > I ignore performance issues completely for now. I do understand your setup but I dont have too agree that it is a good solution. I know you think it's the best and only one :) > > > But I have still not seen any evidence/facts that ZFS looses more >> data than UFS. >> > > And you've never seen me, yet i still exist. > Really? that's you anwser to my question. The most childish answer I could image. You have a gift to troll and ruine every topic with this kind of answers.... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 15:15:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD7C8106568E for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:15:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A7AE8FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:15:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LFF8t4003406; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:15:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LFF7Ur003403; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:15:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:15:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Matthias Gamsjager In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:15:08 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:15:12 -0000 > > I do understand your setup but I dont have too agree that it is a good so i would repeat my question. Assume you have 48 disks, in mirrored configuration (24 mirrors) and 480 users with their data on them. Your solution with ZFS - ZFS crashes or you get double disk failure. Assuming the latter by average one per 24 file (randomly chosen) is destroyed which - in practice and limited time, means everything destroyed. Actually more than one per 24 - large files can be spread over. Your solution with UFS - better as there is fsck which slowly but successfully repairs problem. with double disk failure - the same! You restore everything from backup (i assume you have one). This takes like a day or more, one or two complete work days lost+all users in practice lost everything since last backup. My solution with UFS - fsck in case of failure work in parallel on 24 disks so not that long. double disk failure means losing data of 1/24 users. every one per 24 user cannot work, others work and i without any stress do recover this 1/24 of users data from backup after putting replacement disks. 1/24 of users lost data since last backup, and some hours of time. Even assuming ZFS is perfect then we both have problems as often, but my problems are 1/24 as severe as yours. Just don't ask me for help when unhappy users will want to cut off your head. >> And you've never seen me, yet i still exist. >> > > Really? that's you anwser to my question. The most childish answer I could stupid answer to stupid question. You never seen - but they do happens. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 15:38:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C3F106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:38:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from weldon@excelsusphoto.com) Received: from veyron.excelsus.com (veyron.excelsus.com [74.93.113.250]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 683CC8FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:38:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by veyron.excelsus.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A52C56AA for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from veyron.excelsus.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (veyron.excelsus.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 73546-07 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:38:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by veyron.excelsus.com (Postfix, from userid 80) id 2AFDC56A7; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:38:18 -0400 (EDT) To: X-PHP-Script: webmail.excelsus.com/index.php for 165.214.14.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:38:18 -0500 From: weldon@excelsusphoto.com In-Reply-To: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: weldon@excelsusphoto.com User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/ X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:38:20 -0000 On 21.06.2012 10:15, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> >> I do understand your setup but I dont have too agree that it is a >> good > > so i would repeat my question. > Assume you have 48 disks, in mirrored configuration (24 mirrors) and > 480 users with their data on them. > > Your solution with ZFS - ZFS crashes or you get double disk failure. > Assuming the latter by average one per 24 file (randomly chosen) is > destroyed which - in practice and limited time, means everything > destroyed. Actually more than one per 24 - large files can be spread > over. > > Your solution with UFS - better as there is fsck which slowly but > successfully repairs problem. with double disk failure - the same! > > > You restore everything from backup (i assume you have one). This > takes like a day or more, one or two complete work days lost+all > users > in practice lost everything since last backup. > > My solution with UFS - fsck in case of failure work in parallel on 24 > disks so not that long. double disk failure means losing data of 1/24 > users. > > every one per 24 user cannot work, others work and i without any > stress do recover this 1/24 of users data from backup after putting > replacement disks. > > 1/24 of users lost data since last backup, and some hours of time. > > > Even assuming ZFS is perfect then we both have problems as often, but > my problems are 1/24 as severe as yours. > > I think it is incorrect to assume that a failure with ZFS that cannot be recovered could be recovered if you used UFS with fsck. What fsck fixes in other file systems doesn't apply to ZFS by ZFS's design. fsck deals with fixing superblock inconsistancies on non-journaled file systems (like UFS/UFS2), not resurecting corrupted blocks on a disk. http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archives/6071-No,-ZFS-really-doesnt-need-a-fsck.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fsck http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFS2 From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 15:43:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D48710657A5 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:43:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 590598FC1A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:43:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LFgtAK003517; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:42:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LFgthv003514; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:42:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:42:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: weldon@excelsusphoto.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:42:56 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:43:04 -0000 > > I think it is incorrect to assume that a failure with ZFS that cannot be > recovered could be recovered if you used UFS with fsck. i think it is incorrect to not read carefully. So explanation - ZFS failure NOT caused by disks failure cannot be usually recovered. But even if i am wrong at this, rest still apply. > What fsck fixes in > other file systems doesn't apply to ZFS by ZFS's design. fsck deals with > fixing superblock inconsistancies on non-journaled file systems (like > UFS/UFS2), not resurecting corrupted blocks on a disk. > > http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archives/6071-No,-ZFS-really-doesnt-need-a-fsck.html yes i know that article. And it is truly funny for me to know people do think this way. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 15:49:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E191106567E for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:49:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 231558FC18 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:49:04 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=c0ewRXWGMVTuGBJ57gKXt1sCyfUnVVuPP7SvuGfA9uM=; b=O6cLM4W4v3CdHw5fBYxKl/tCc4JzQx2J2Xu2Wb1b46maWuzxuykHuIVI3yagVxQwvRelqXSUsRHHVrqo5SXixonJ2t4fHQmVtQX/d49ZcfRXjDQFPfuchrHZPaBHFFHl; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Shjd0-000219-Bt for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:49:03 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340293736-94480-94479/5/29; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:48:56 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:48:56 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:49:04 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:42:55 -0500, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > And it is truly funny for me to know people do think this way. > If you understood how ZFS commits data to disk you'd not be making these statements. Also, if you take snapshots you can just roll back if there is any weirdness at all. Another important point: With 24 ZFS mirrors you'd have your data being striped across ALL the mirrors. This will yield much better performance. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:02:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69B74106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:02:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mgamsjager@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com (mail-wi0-f178.google.com [209.85.212.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 815C88FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:02:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhn6 with SMTP id hn6so647546wib.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:02:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:references:from:content-type:x-mailer:in-reply-to :message-id:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=zbntv4M9dZ/P47E28eQXlBV3cawfA6rX13YKI/oRy70=; b=Is4WyIRtgrkntfmt8XqfkZJ4V2NqMJR6FZ5EgeZAOcCcGauH8dOB+8DzyGcENY99lP phsGwL2bhtrHl6syCGshrS+C7yCYXWzU2U27BT8qfSvdeybFrsYNzRe1FwNh9WRm0aXY qlNnTI4GRyL3csq4AxThCC54g0l/2y1L1vbRNr3zWMvbiS/tjX/UVfZvQ/pdWCkwOxs+ NlJyVxcrJM73XlsfezVIFxB8oWa6FPKsNv/gyr/xSDikihuRWUoF88g0Q/udlpmKA4bs RjyXt/OXtLHpXtYKIhp3tyoqpEJFNuXwHs+eFOvO2NT6CzLnBBrzrq+tx7aHtMmJs1EZ H0ZA== Received: by 10.216.213.143 with SMTP id a15mr16240393wep.156.1340294576193; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.7] (5ED03002.cm-7-1a.dynamic.ziggo.nl. [94.208.48.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d3sm90187659wiz.9.2012.06.21.09.02.54 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:02:55 -0700 (PDT) References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> From: Matthias Gamsjager Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B176) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:02:52 +0200 Cc: FreeBSD Questions Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:02:58 -0000 On 21 jun. 2012, at 17:15, Wojciech Puchar w= rote: >>=20 >> I do understand your setup but I dont have too agree that it is a good >=20 > so i would repeat my question. > Assume you have 48 disks, in mirrored configuration (24 mirrors) and 480 u= sers with their data on them. >=20 > Your solution with ZFS - ZFS crashes or you get double disk failure. > Assuming the latter by average one per 24 file (randomly chosen) is destro= yed which - in practice and limited time, means everything destroyed. Actual= ly more than one per 24 - large files can be spread over. >=20 > Your solution with UFS - better as there is fsck which slowly but successf= ully repairs problem. with double disk failure - the same! >=20 >=20 > You restore everything from backup (i assume you have one). This takes lik= e a day or more, one or two complete work days lost+all users in practice lo= st everything since last backup. >=20 > My solution with UFS - fsck in case of failure work in parallel on 24 disk= s so not that long. double disk failure means losing data of 1/24 users. >=20 > every one per 24 user cannot work, others work and i without any stress do= recover this 1/24 of users data from backup after putting replacement disks= . >=20 > 1/24 of users lost data since last backup, and some hours of time. >=20 >=20 > Even assuming ZFS is perfect then we both have problems as often, but my p= roblems are 1/24 as severe as yours. >=20 >=20 > Just don't ask me for help when unhappy users will want to cut off your he= ad. >=20 >>> And you've never seen me, yet i still exist. >>>=20 >>=20 >> Really? that's you anwser to my question. The most childish answer I coul= d >=20 > stupid answer to stupid question. > You never seen - but they do happens. In other topic you hammerd on fact and if someone ask you to deliver them i= ts a stupid question.=20 And about the dram error. I really hope you do use ecc memory in production w= hich renders your scenario invalide. And even then its a claim made by you s= ome random dude on a list.=20 Without proper test scenario and documentation such claims are just useless.= =20 And a proper layout zfs will withstand a double disk failure with zero downt= ime...where younhave to tell your customer they just lost a day work= From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:04:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E006106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:04:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7EC68FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:04:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LG4cYn003646; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:04:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LG4cr1003643; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:04:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:04:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Felder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:04:39 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:04:52 -0000 > Another important point: > > With 24 ZFS mirrors you'd have your data being striped across ALL the > mirrors. This will yield much better performance. i though already after few mails that you can discuss things normally. But this reply just perfectly proves you didn't read more than maybe my last sentence in spite of nearly a page of explanation written. My advices was now for free. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:07:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C96931065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:07:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AA638FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:07:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LG71uf003662; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:07:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LG7150003659; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:07:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:07:01 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Matthias Gamsjager In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:07:01 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:07:04 -0000 >> stupid answer to stupid question. >> You never seen - but they do happens. > > In other topic you hammerd on fact and if someone ask you to deliver them its a stupid question. just a proof it is a waste of time to explain things (FOR FREE) for people like you. You are free to make dangerous setups. People are free to hire you and believe at things what you do. People are free to then pay consequences of the results at unexpected time, as well as 10 times oversized hardware for a need. At least this is still free :) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:24:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B74F41065677 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:24:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from merlyn@stonehenge.com) Received: from gw15.lax01.mailroute.net (lax-gw15.mailroute.net [199.89.0.115]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D76D8FC19 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:24:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gw15.lax01.mailroute.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD515E362A8; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:15:37 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by MailRoute Received: from gw15.lax01.mailroute.net ([199.89.0.115]) by localhost (gw15.lax01.mailroute.net.mailroute.net [127.0.0.1]) (mroute_mailscanner, port 10026) with LMTP id zQhUnDoA5Yi8; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:15:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from red.stonehenge.com (red.stonehenge.com [208.79.95.2]) by gw15.lax01.mailroute.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CCFCE3654A; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:15:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: by red.stonehenge.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 76CB919C0; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:15:35 -0700 (PDT) From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) To: Wojciech Puchar References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> x-mayan-date: Long count = 12.19.19.8.17; tzolkin = 3 Caban; haab = 0 Tzec Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:15:35 -0700 In-Reply-To: (Wojciech Puchar's message of "Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:47:01 +0200 (CEST)") Message-ID: <86mx3wbpzs.fsf@red.stonehenge.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.4 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Matthias Gamsjager , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:24:20 -0000 >>>>> "Wojciech" == Wojciech Puchar writes: Wojciech> I ignore performance issues completely for now. An ironic line, given your complaints about clang. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.posterous.com/ for Smalltalk discussion From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:24:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 472021065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:24:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0040D8FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:24:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.31]) by ltcfislmsgpa02.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5LGODTG008984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:24:23 -0500 Received: from [10.0.0.105] (10.14.152.61) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:23:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" From: Devin Teske In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:23:56 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <1521E29F-C0BC-46A8-A428-FC7183C6E689@fisglobal.com> References: To: Odhiambo Washington X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.61] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.7.7855, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-06-21_03:2012-06-21, 2012-06-21, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: questions Subject: Re: A bash scripting question X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Devin Teske List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:24:24 -0000 On Jun 21, 2012, at 6:40 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > How Can I simplify/perfect the following script, so that I read _ALL_ the > lines in the file and act on the content as shown below, so that I do not > have to specifiy an action per line? >=20 > This below is doing exactly what i need BUT reading one line at a time > untill the 10th line, if i want more i add manually... > This might help some1 someday! But if there is a way to perfect it please > do so..... >=20 > #!/usr/local/bin/bash >=20 > smsfile=3Demail_to_sms > `grep Subject /var/spool/mail/sms >>$smsfile` > if [[ -s $smsfile ]] ; then > cat /dev/null > /var/spool/mail/sms > sed -i 's/Subject: //g' $smsfile > echo `sed -n '1p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR=3D= =3D1 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '2p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR=3D= =3D2 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '3p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR=3D= =3D3 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '4p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR=3D= =3D4 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '5p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR=3D= =3D5 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '6p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR=3D= =3D6 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '7p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR=3D= =3D7 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '8p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR=3D= =3D8 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '9p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR=3D= =3D9 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '10p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR=3D= =3D10 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > else > echo "***********Sorry the SMS FILE "$smsfile" is empty.************" > fi > gammu-smsd start > cat email_to_sms >> email_to_sms2 > cat /dev/null > email_to_sms >=20 Try the following=85 #!/bin/sh smsfile=3Demail_to_sms spoolfile=3D/var/spol/mail/sms grep Subject "$spoolfile" >> "$smsfile" if [ -s "$smsfile" ]; then : > "$spoolfile" sed -e 's/Subject: //g' "$smsfile" | awk ' { if (NR > 10) exit print | "/usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT " $1 }' else echo "***********Sorry the SMS FILE "$smsfile" is empty.************" fi gammu-smsd start cat "$smsfile" >> email_to_sms2 : > "$smsfile" --=20 Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware= that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and revie= w by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:31:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28809106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:31:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mgamsjager@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 968298FC19 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:31:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so805175wgb.31 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:31:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to; bh=gS8XCJLySrZt2o6ftUceWuKyc//MBheTzP0rn8UC/Zs=; b=fnQrA3BXp9+ZTTNqgsGEla9pTgw8BmV62Fni1/nyIqIc8tdEfR7eAfBMcq/wbS0A6H amLoYSZ7aIdilsvKb7wW1+rn64x7eWYw/q1xA8NL5OioWeAXAPllemnxCSYGIHuzsqpU N6qNJihx1/y0DQ6lQZvqrkRgMZD6XxkZYsmFnkSsewbMhk11Vuy34myRBWMo+uGX0HE/ wslt5oAkgHDJWKzWC+FwnSnV/FYJAuanZduj/FZ0Rijso1KH17kL+zJP9K3onjhyf2TN /yBsKZ5exiskAHAy2E2UvjSuRirzPSBVRDGx3vU72pDq/CNzydjoAiqUlS781gAvQ2bu +5jw== Received: by 10.180.92.8 with SMTP id ci8mr21596771wib.15.1340296267244; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.7] (5ED03002.cm-7-1a.dynamic.ziggo.nl. [94.208.48.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id db7sm46618023wib.6.2012.06.21.09.31.05 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:31:05 -0700 (PDT) References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <9672338A-45DA-4680-977B-253CEF3201C8@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B176) From: Matthias Gamsjager Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:31:03 +0200 To: Wojciech Puchar Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:31:14 -0000 On 21 jun. 2012, at 18:07, Wojciech Puchar w= rote: >>> stupid answer to stupid question. >>> You never seen - but they do happens. >>=20 >> In other topic you hammerd on fact and if someone ask you to deliver the= m its a stupid question. > just a proof it is a waste of time to explain things (FOR FREE) for people= like you. >=20 > You are free to make dangerous setups. People are free to hire you and bel= ieve at things what you do. People are free to then pay consequences of the r= esults at unexpected time, as well as 10 times oversized hardware for a need= . >=20 > At least this is still free :) True but this applies as much to you. You think you know it all and that is q= uite the probdlem with you.=20 And "discussing" with you is a true waste with this attittute. Even its fre= e.=20= From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:42:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05861106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:42:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from DStaal@usa.net) Received: from mail.magehandbook.com (173-8-4-45-WashingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.8.4.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C18FA8FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:42:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from www.magehandbook.com (unknown [192.168.1.100]) by mail.magehandbook.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3WJ7nn4zz9zcD for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:35:57 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:35:57 -0400 From: Daniel Staal To: Mail-Reply-To: In-Reply-To: <4FE30FBC.1070904@gmail.com> References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <4FE30FBC.1070904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <88136b1c2b7ffcd86d9ff4180a39cabf@mail.magehandbook.com> X-Sender: DStaal@usa.net User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/RCMAIL_VERSION Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: DStaal@usa.net List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:42:08 -0000 On 2012-06-21 08:12, Евгений Лактанов wrote: > 21.06.2012 15:52, Wojciech Puchar пиŃет: >> stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. >> And it works fast. >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > I see the trend here. That guy is determined to shove his opinion > down > the throat of everybody. Stop it, tis most annoying. > > Back to the topic. ZFS support has matured greatly since the last > time > you tried it, currently freebsd supports zfs pool v. 28 in the last > updates. Try it, it won't disappoint you. Agreed. Wojciech Puchar is in my 'probable troll' file at this point, from his interactions on several topics. ZFS is stable and tested, and works well if you have the resources. That means RAM as well as hard disks - and if you don't have the resources, most of ZFS's advantages wouldn't be coming into play anyway. I have seen no reason to believe at this point (under FreeBSD 9) that it is any less stable than any other filesystem. It is still fairly new relatively, but I and others have used it with no problems, on boxes of various sizes. Getting the best performance may take some tweaking on occasion, but in general it should be very good. (And getting the best performance out of a multi-terabyte drive array will take tweaking no matter what file system you are trying.) My one note to the above would be to advise against using it for swap - unless you have enough RAM to make sure you never swap. It doesn't do well in that role, in my experience. (Though that was under a slightly earlier version.) Daniel T. Staal --------------------------------------------------------------- This email copyright the author. Unless otherwise noted, you are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use the contents for non-commercial purposes. This copyright will expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of local copyright law. --------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:47:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EBEC1065678 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:47:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2BE78FC18 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:47:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LGlVSR004123; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:47:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LGlVY4004120; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:47:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:47:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Matthias Gamsjager In-Reply-To: <9672338A-45DA-4680-977B-253CEF3201C8@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <9672338A-45DA-4680-977B-253CEF3201C8@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:47:31 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:47:35 -0000 > > True but this applies as much to you. You think you know it all and that is quite the probdlem with you. > And "discussing" with you is a true waste with this attittute. Even its free. > so stop it. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:48:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C151065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:48:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2C208FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:48:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LGm48V004145; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:48:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LGm4s9004142; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:48:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:48:04 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Daniel Staal In-Reply-To: <88136b1c2b7ffcd86d9ff4180a39cabf@mail.magehandbook.com> Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <4FE30FBC.1070904@gmail.com> <88136b1c2b7ffcd86d9ff4180a39cabf@mail.magehandbook.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:48:05 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:48:11 -0000 > his interactions on several topics. > > ZFS is stable and tested, and works well if you have the resources. That > means RAM as well as hard disks - and if you don't have the resources, most > of ZFS's advantages wouldn't be coming into play anyway. I have seen no right. repeat it more times, as your clients may read it :) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:53:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 172141065673 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:53:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayasaman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A5B8FC1D for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:53:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eabm6 with SMTP id m6so454178eab.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:53:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=v7PXaGv2Hu5RMaUTzCVBXJFHbYJE/mKAs9DwfObqZ3E=; b=yUoZbKGAweMs5gszppFVAIIpi5Puetx00LrLNjx/cmeu/Y126G63Shb68TViIteJqj oRQ78JG45He79w4wb0sUQwgwEy0jenUFFgUMJrzMRTbht+ImM1zM7lzpc1J1dIH2KvDi /558G23VlozpwJcDLq67Bs0kofawO2UDGE2tSxG3UYb/TYfbvuCwRDkwFVdMIfIfCuUy 613ybx6HAuqEebfXbLFHYG2VRYJK7Sp3gLmV16RgT5I6PyByT7lysygE4mHrIroZURv/ frBQySgGIbjY4iiZ7iIxiDMq1/FalBBowyB2F4mhw2VhlVKrWNfsVTibL56WfmiDpnb6 v33g== Received: by 10.14.28.77 with SMTP id f53mr5793435eea.98.1340297630688; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:53:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from X220.optiplex-networks.com (81-178-2-118.dsl.pipex.com. [81.178.2.118]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u14sm104632524eem.4.2012.06.21.09.53.47 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:53:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE3519A.9070203@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:53:46 +0100 From: Kaya Saman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <4FE30FBC.1070904@gmail.com> <88136b1c2b7ffcd86d9ff4180a39cabf@mail.magehandbook.com> In-Reply-To: <88136b1c2b7ffcd86d9ff4180a39cabf@mail.magehandbook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:53:58 -0000 [...] > > My one note to the above would be to advise against using it for swap > - unless you have enough RAM to make sure you never swap. It doesn't > do well in that role, in my experience. (Though that was under a > slightly earlier version.) I remember on SXCE running on my test Sun E420r server that ZFS (can't remember if this was in the spec file or not??) would use **any** usable or unpartitioned file system as swap. I maybe totally off-base with this as I was too knew to investigate the issue and was still learning Solaris at the time but all of a sudden a remote mounted external drive would start getting zapped by I/O usage. Of course it couldn't be any user as the only user for those machines was me and I wasn't doing anything on either system. That was quite a weird thing, but happened many years ago so my memory is quite hazy on the specifics of the issue too.... I do recall running top to see swap usage at a few tens of gigs which was quite funny, of course unmounting the drive dropped the swap back to whatever got allocated by SXCE default. > > Daniel T. Staal Regards, Kaya From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:55:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B1B21065674 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:55:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rogerk@queernet.org) Received: from mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (mailbox.onlinepolicy.net [209.237.247.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81ABB8FC14 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:55:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from RogerKs-MacBook-Air.local (unknown [208.146.43.5]) by mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC8C017AD075 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:55:36 -0700 From: "Roger B.A. Klorese" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:55:37 -0000 On 6/21/12 1:40 AM, Michel Talon wrote: > Second, FreeBSD is not a commercial company, and while this argument may have a merit > for commercial sponsors of FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD itself. You seem to be unaware of what percentage of the development and maintenance staff and the money to pay for them comes from those commercial users. If FreeBSD cannot maintain the critical mass to continue, it will not continue. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:55:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2050A106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:55:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9618B8FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:55:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-40-10.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.40.10]) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 187C927D46; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:55:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q5LGtcIK002337; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:55:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:55:38 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Fred Morcos Message-Id: <20120621185538.a9aa6e5b.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:55:41 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:24:26 +0200, Fred Morcos wrote: > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Wojciech Puchar > wrote: > >> I'm quite new to FreeBSD too (RHEL/Fedora background), and am most > >> impressed with it so far. > > > > > > rather huge difference. If you use the "right" Linusi, you can gain lots of useful knowledge. Basics are important, and older versions of Linux can really teach them. Of course a "click'n'grunt" environment won't teach you much. > >> Secondly (and probably stating the obvious), the handbook > >> > >> > >> > >> is the place I always look first. > > > > and third - manuals. They are in sync with system and actually VERY useful. > > > > while i was still (long time ago) using linux most common manual was like > > > > "this manual is outdated. Use texinfo documentation". and texinfo docs was > > often outdated too. > > > > Today it is most probably "look at wikipedia" ;) > > > > Of course i means FreeBSD base system, ports are not part of FreeBSD and > > quality varies. In "modern applications", documentation is often left out ("Who ever reads that?!"), or it's scattered across web forums, user web pages and wikis. Some ports for FreeBSD have good manpages (e. g. "man mplayer", "man xmms" or even "man opera"), some don't (try to find manpages for KDE programs, also no "man firefox"). > I have been using GNU/Linux for quite a while and I am most > comfortable with Archlinux. That should have provided you with essential basic knowledge that you can apply in FreeBSD without problems. > The reason I like it is it's simplicity > from the ground up without wasting too much time on unimportant > details (unless you want to). You will find that aspect in FreeBSD. > Another strong point is that it provides > binary packages by default, user-building of packages if you want to, > and the same level of customization you can achieve with - say - > Gentoo Linux. FreeBSD seems to provide that. FreeBSD offers two methods: Source-based or precompiled. Both of them are build from the ports collection, a kind of means to control dealing with sources and automatically build from them. > I learned over the years that (re-)compilation of packages is not > something I want to do regularly, but something I would like to do > only when I need and want to (ie, to strip out or add a certain > compile-time feature from/to a package). A prominent example is mplayer / mencoder to deal with codecs. It's also typically needed to build OpenOffice with non-US language and "unusual" settings like no integration with KDE or Gnome (if you're not using them). > I also learned that the > performance gains of tuning compiler flags for a certain CPU are not > that drastic for a desktop/laptop/workstation machine workflow and > that this category of computing is mostly bound by IO speed > (especially with HDDs). It's only needed when you have to get things running on older hardware. Again, mplayer is a good example for where you intendedly would deal with compiling in such a constellation. > q) Is it possible to run a FreeBSD system without much building? In > other words, can I survive by depending on packages and only resorting > to ports when really needed? It is. You're basically using "pkg_add -r " to install the packages you want. The required dependencies will automatically be installed. > What set me off, and got me tired of dealing with Linux-based systems > is a set of patterns that have been repeating over for some years > now. Generally: > > 1. Too often, core system components break (especially with every > Linux kernel release). They don't in FreeBSD. Only tested and verified modifications will be committed to the non-experimental branches (the security branch of -RELEASE, and the -STABLE branch). If you're following the experimental development branch -HEAD, it _might_ happen that the system doesn't even compile, but updated 30 minutes after that "accident", it runs fine again. :-) > 1. Yesterday I spent 30 minutes until my webcam worked, dealing with > v4l, gstreamer and cheese. FreeBSD - unlike Linux! - has a differentiation between the OS (FreeBSD itself, the operating system) and 3rd party applications ("everything else", the ports collection). Even if you mess up all your ports, you _never_ will end up with a defective OS. So even in such a worst case, you can still access system means for diagnostics and repair. > 2. Sudden drastic changes that are deviating from simplicity. > 1. The sudden flood of daemons that are designed to do everything > for me, without giving me much say in the matter. My computer is > supposed to help me, not decide for me or replace me. The concept of FreeBSD includes to have several system-level deamons available, but only few of them are running by default. You have to enable them if you feel you need them. This is done in centralized (!) system configuration files. The most important one is /etc/rc.conf. Did I already mention the problem of documentation? On FreeBSD, you can always do "man rc.conf" to find out what this file is. The manpages include documentation for system binaries and services, configuration files, kernel interfaces, library calls and maintenance procedures. Your Linux background will have taught you how to deal with "apropos", "whatis" and "man", and on FreeBSD, they actually work! > 2. Those daemons are hard to get rid of and are tightly integrated > into higher-level components in the stack (ie, into the desktop > environment). As many software for FreeBSD is ported over from Linux, it might be neccessary to run some of those deamons, e. g. DBUS to enhance the functionality. But _you_ need to enable it, it won't do by itself, so _you_ stay in control. The case of being "Linux-centric" already shows some downsides when there are interfaces needed that FreeBSD doesn't have (because it has other interfaces, and had them for many years). A known example is Xfce where the unavailability of some Linux-specific component reduces its functionality. > 3. Those daemons are increasingly hard and obscure to configure > (ie, huge XML files, complex hierarchies, etc). Again, this is something you'll also sadly find on FreeBSD. I remember dealing with HAL - already deprecated in Linux. You needed to fiddle with XML in order to get your non-US keyboard working again. The standard means to do so would have been the X configuration file where _all_ X related settings are present without being tied to a specific desktop environment. Rebuilding X without HAL and creating xorg.conf the traditional way solves such problems. > 5. I think many of the developers of those components are trying to > reach a Mac-like experience? I am not against that in any way, but > it needs to be working well. Not sure. Bloat, as I've been told, is a natural means of modern application development. However, I don't believe that. The problem is that most software wants to be wide-spread, so it needs compatibility across many platforms, therefore lots of abstraction layers and libraries are used. This all adds up to a pile of... software... that requires increasing resources in order to get the simplest things done. > Those are dbus, hal, udev, udisks, upower, pulseaudio, systemd, > consolekit and policykit. Except u{dev/disks/power} and systemd, you'll find them on FreeBSD too. Luckily they're optional. > q) Where does the FreeBSD project stand on this matter? From what I > noticed is that the base system seems to adhere to the tranditional > flat text files for configuration and simple tools that do a good job, > leaving it up to the user to combine those small tools to create > larger, more complex ones (a UNIX inheritance). FreeBSD (the operating system) exactly follows this approach. Others (ports, at least some of them) do not. > q) Is a FreeBSD stable base system with "current" high-level > components possible? Yes, follow the -RELEASE branch and use freebsd-update (a binary updating tool for your OS installation). > Will it avoid the issues I experienced on > Linux-based systems? Possibly. > q) I would assume UFS with J+SU is "fast enough" for a laptop? I think so. For a laptop, you _might_ consider adding encryption. Just in case. You never know. > q) Does ZFS make sense on a laptop? Any advantages of using it over > USF with J+SU? I am not interested in any striping or mirroring on > the laptops, but the compression features is very attractive for the > HDDs in the first laptop. I would not recommend ZFS for this specific kind of use, as you can easily create striping and mirroring settings with gstripe and gmirror, using UFS. > q) The second laptop has an SSD, would UFS with/without J and > with/without SU or ZFS make more sense for it? There are several parameters that you can tweak (see "man tunefs"), I would suggest a single partition spanning the whole SSD, and journaling would not be contraproductive. > q) Can I live with a desktop environment (Gnome or KDE) and desktop > applications (Firefox, Libreoffice, etc) by relying only on packages? I think so. LibreOffice... I'm not sure about the language versions that are offered precompiled. Is your required language (unless it's English) present? If yes, no problem. > q) Does ntfs-3g from ports work reliably with external HDDs or USB > flash drives with read and write support? I would like to hear > personal experiences with that. I can't answer that, except forensic analysis and data recovery I'm not a MICROS~1 person. :-) > q) Does the NVIDIA binary driver work reliably? I would like to hear > personal experiences with that. I'm using it here (nVidia GeForce 7600 GS - G73), nvidia-driver-270.41.19 using xorg-7.5.1. No problems, except the GPU is broken and sometimes locks the system. :-) > I am also planning to setup a micro-server for home use (either a > ready-built one or by simply building a PC and using it as a server), > questions about that will come later. The main use of it would be > hosting my multimedia, streaming music and making backups of the > laptops on it (cron + rsync). Also, maybe some web/ftp and git > servers. You'll find all required parts to do that in ports. It doesn't sound much complicated. > I installed the base system into Virtualbox and everything works quite > well. Everything is so... clean, and tidy, and consistent, and > simple. Very well thought out. I may add that I'm happy to experience that every day since 4.0. :-) > I am also very impressed with the > amount of properly written man pages and with the handbook. I would > like to thank and congratulate all of the people who work on the > FreeBSD base system, a true masterpiece. You actually _do_ recognize that this voluminous and quality documentation is accessible for you even without Internet connection? In a worst case scenario, it's a real benefit. > q) Does the bsdinstall align partitions to device blocks by default > for optimal speed? If not, I have found that I can use gpart with -a > and -b which will require me to calculate the start and end offsets of > each partition manually. Is there a tool that can automatically do > that for me? I've not bsdinstall, so I can't comment on that. I prefer using a live media (CD or USB stick) and then use the command line tools according to the requirements (either fdisk, disklabel and newfs for the "MBR approach", or gpart and newfs for the "GPT approach"). > q) Is it possible to get native resolution on the console? I played > with vesa and vidcontrol but could never get what I wanted. Native > resolution would require KMS? As far as I know, KMS (kernel mode settings) is specific to Linux. FreeBSD has several VESA modes bigger than 80x25. But I have to admit that I don't see a problem in using this default mode during initialization time. Later on, xterms (also those containing SSH and screen sessions) can be configured any size under X. > q) Adding tmpmfs="YES" to /etc/rc.conf is analogous to a tmpfs /tmp on > Linux-based systems, correct? Any other directories that might make > sense to have as an mfs (ie, in /var)? Maybe subdirectories of the /var tree. Note that /var/db contains important databases for the system, and /var/log contains logs that you don't want to loose in case of a system crash. Things like /var/spool may be well in volatile memory. Note that the use of /var/tmp vs. /tmp is also debatable: While /tmp is really temporary, as it can be erased on system startup (see rc.conf option clear_tmp_enable) or when residing on a RAM disk, /var/tmp is often considered to be kept across reboots. > q) Is there a place where all sysctl variables are documented? It > occurred to me when I was trying to find the memory usage on my system > but `sysctl -a | grep mem' shows a whole bunch of stuff. See "man sysctl", you can use the -d option to see the description. Also there definitely is some source code where everything is stored. > q) How can I set proxy settings system-wide? Same for PACKAGESITE (for > the pkg_* tools), how can I set a mirror system-wide? /etc/profile? Depending on your shell, you can set it in /etc/csh.cshrc (for the C shell, which is FreeBSD's default dialog shell). > q) I noticed all file/data-sizes are in bytes (ls, dd, etc), is there > a way to change that system-wide to be in human-readable format? What's not "human-readable" in bytes? I always thought 8k blocks where non-"human-readable"! :-) Aliases can do that. For example, you could use something like this: alias ls 'ls -FG -D "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S"' alias ll 'ls -laFG -D "%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S"' See "man ls" and add options for dealing with sizes (display of SI units). Also you can "setenv BLOCKSIZE K" in your csh config file ~/.cshrc. > To assess my understanding, the system is split into kernel, base, > documentation, games, lib32 (on 64-bit systems) and ports. Those are sometimes called distributions (do not confuse with the Linux term). > There is > another split between base and ports where base includes everything > previously mentioned minus ports. Now, there are 3 "branches" of the > base system: RELEASE, STABLE and CURRENT. RELEASE means 9.0 and stays > that way until 10.0 is released. No. RELEASE means 9.0, 9.1, 9.2 and so on. This branch also considers the security updates ("patches"), often denoted as 9.0-p1, 9.0-p2 and so on. > STABLE means 9.0, 9.1, 9.2, > etc. No. STABLE is a continuous branch of approved development where the minor version number "disappears", e. g. 8-STABLE and 9-STABLE. Those branches have tested and verified development in them which is "newer" than -RELEASE, but might result in a future security patch. There are no patchlevels or version numbers per se. > CURRENT means "trunk" in SVN terms. CURRENT or HEAD is the "faster" continuous development branch. It contains stuff that might not be stable, e. g. experimental changes. > Is all that correct? Almost. :-) > Also, > when somewhere is mentioned `make world', this means to rebuild all > installed ports which doesn't include base, I assume? No. "make world" means to build and install all components of the operating system (but not the kernel). See /usr/src/Makefile, the comment header, where the most common "make targets" are explained. Basically: make world = make buildworld + make installworld make kernel = make buildkernel + make installkernel Also note that a specific order is important here. > q) The files in /etc/rc.d are all executable, from my understanding, > those files will get executed and it is their duty to check the > variable `_enable' for whether they should start or > not. Wouldn't it be more efficient to chmod -x or +x them to > disable/enable? I don't think so. Settings are centralized in a "control file", even if it just consists of "setting variables". So everything is in one place. > q) What is analogous to /etc/rc.local from Linux-based systems? It's /etc/rc.conf and maybe /etc/rc.conf.local. See "man rc.conf" as well as /etc/defaults/rc.conf for details. > q) Is there something analogous to the Linux magic sysrq key? I don't think so. FreeBSD isn't about magic, it's about power, the power to serve. =^_^= > I must say, the ports collection being built on makefiles was a > welcome enlightenment, it just, naturally, made sense. The *-recursive > make targets are a blessing, especially for configs. True. If you want to make the work with ports more easy, use a port management tool. For example portmaster (considered the best one), but there's also portupgrade and portmanager, as well as helpful tools in bsd-admin-scripts (also a port). > q) Is there a tool that can test a set of mirrors for connection time > and speed (for packages and ports)? Analogous to Archlinux's > rankmirrors? I'm not sure, but it can easily be implemented. :-) > q) Is it possible for the pkg_* tools (especially pkg_add -r) to > display progress? Maybe the -v option? :-) No, there is no real progess indicator, especially not an overall indicator (regarding dependency traversal), as far as I know. > q) I noticed in the ports collection that there were some outdated > packages (skype-2.2, gimp-2.6), should I report that and where? (A > PR?) _If_ they are in ports, they still work, so why get rid of them? Only ports that do not work anymore, aren't maintained or cannot be fetched anymore (no distfile mirrors) will be removed. There are also some versioning: "portname" is the current version, "portname" is the older version n which still works, and "portname-devel" is the development version with "bleeding edge" features. > q) Is it possible to have the ports system compile into an mfs (to > avoid disk access)? Yes, there is a variable to control it. See "man 7 ports" and maybe /etc/make.conf. I have to admit that I forgot it currently. $WORKDIR? $WRKPREFIX? > q) Is it possible to have the user asked to change their password the > first time they log in (using an OTP) in a simple way? I looked at > OPIE but it seems to be much more complex than what I need. I think this is possible. Maybe see "man passwd" and "man adduser" for this step. > Also, I would like to have a system where user home directories are > encrypted based-on and using the user's password. From what I could > find, gbde and geli don't really provide that without any > administrator intervention. Correct, they work on "system level", not directly on user level. > q) What should I be looking at to achieve the above? You can generally encrypt the /home partition (implying that this is a separate partition or whole disk), and using per-user userland tools to deal with (typically changing!) passwords. I'm leaving out the ZFS questions as those have been already very nicelyn answered, and my ZFS knowledge is already too old. It's still from Solaris. :-) > q) I would like to hear anyone's recommendation of a cheap, low-power > ready-made hardware for such a purpose which is supported by > FreeBSD. Everything that contains standard-compliant components will do. Dell servers are known to work very well. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 16:59:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6131065676 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:59:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from leeoliveshackelford@surewest.net) Received: from rc3.surewest.net (rc3.surewest.net [66.60.130.52]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A3878FC14 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:59:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp4.surewest.net ([66.60.130.145]) by rc3.surewest.net ({89e988b2-2a53-469e-91f0-3e9924092bec}) via TCP (outbound) with ESMTP id 20120621165920701 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:59:20 +0000 X-RC-FROM: X-RC-RCPT: Received: from ms5.mc.surewest.net (hansolo.surewest.net [64.30.98.104]) by smtp4.surewest.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7012F89626 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ms5.mc.surewest.net [192.168.60.104]) by ms5.mc.surewest.net (MOS 4.1.8-GA) with HTTP/1.1 id CLF58658 (AUTH leeoliveshackelford@surewest.net); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:59:19 -0700 (PDT) From: To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Mirapoint Webmail Direct 4.1.8-GA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20120621095919.CLF58658@ms5.mc.surewest.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FreeBSD 8.2 Add second hard drive multi-boot X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:59:28 -0000 Good morning, FreeBSD enthusiasts. On my Hewlett-Packard xw4400 workstation, I had one hard drive. I partitioned it with two slices, the first one for FreeBSD 8.2 with its native file system, and the second one for a future re-installation of Windows XP, to be formatted with NTFS file system. FreeBSD 8.2 was then installed. The Windows XP re-installation has not yet taken place. Recently, I installed a second hard drive on the machine that was already formatted with two slices, both NTFS. Already installed on the first of these slices is the Windows XP operating system with a special application program. Already installed on the second slice is data. It is my understanding that the FreeBSD loader is supposed to be able to load any operating system. Upon power-up, the FreeBSD loader presents the following screen: F1 Win F2 FreeBSD F5 Drive 1 F6 PXE If I depress F1, I receive the response "BOOTMGR is missing. Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart." If I depress F2, FreeBSD loads normally. If I depress F5, I receive the response "Missing operatin system." How can I get the FreeBSD loader to load the Windows XP operating system from the second hard drive? The G.P.T. disklabel is not used by either of these operating systems, so I do not believe that that is the problem. Although the FreeBSD operating system seems to see the second hard drive, it does not mount it upon startup. It does not appear in the fstab file. I attempted to mount it manually using the mount command, without success, just to see if any of the data files could be read. I ran fsidk -B on the zeroeth sector of the second hard drive, but that did not seem to help. I know that this type of issue comes up repeatedly in the mailing lists, some of which I have read, but I am flummoxed. Any and all suggestions would be appreciated. Your truly, Lee Shackelfo r! d From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:04:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51D00106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:04:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mamuskus@edatel.com.co) Received: from edatel-imsva-01.edatel.com.co (edatel-imsva-01.edatel.com.co [190.109.177.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0A078FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:04:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from edatel-imsva-01.edatel.com.co (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA80 (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4290B47805B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:36:00 -0500 (COT) Received: from correo.edatel.com.co (unknown [10.4.1.76]) by edatel-imsva-01.edatel.com.co (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30B8C47805A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:36:00 -0500 (COT) Received: from [10.4.4.116] (10.4.4.116) by edatel-hbt-02 (10.4.1.76) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.3.213.0; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:36:11 -0500 Message-ID: <4FE34DEC.9070908@edatel.com.co> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:38:04 -0500 From: Marco Antonio Muskus Muskus User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <9672338A-45DA-4680-977B-253CEF3201C8@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9672338A-45DA-4680-977B-253CEF3201C8@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:04:45 -0000 ZFS is superior to UFS. End of the history. There is no point in use old technology (UFS) when the new one can make the= same as the older and better ? Regards, El 21/06/12 11:31, Matthias Gamsjager escribi=F3: On 21 jun. 2012, at 18:07, Wojciech Puchar = wrote: stupid answer to stupid question. You never seen - but they do happens. In other topic you hammerd on fact and if someone ask you to deliver them = its a stupid question. just a proof it is a waste of time to explain things (FOR FREE) for people = like you. You are free to make dangerous setups. People are free to hire you and beli= eve at things what you do. People are free to then pay consequences of the = results at unexpected time, as well as 10 times oversized hardware for a ne= ed. At least this is still free :) True but this applies as much to you. You think you know it all and that is= quite the probdlem with you. And "discussing" with you is a true waste with this attittute. Even its fr= ee. _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing= list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " -- MARCO ANTONIO MUSKUS MUSKUS NOC - Aplicaciones ISP EDATEL S.A. E.S.P. Calle 41 # 52 - 28 Piso 2 Medell=EDn, Antioquia - Colombia Tel=E9fono: (574) 384 6507 Fax: (574) 3846500 www.edatel.net.co mamuskus@edatel.com.co ________________________________ Este mensaje y/o sus anexos son para uso exclusivo de su destinatario inten= cional y puede contener informaci=F3n legalmente protegida por ser confiden= cial. Si usted no es el destinatario intencional del mensaje por favor inf= =F3rmenos de inmediato y elim=EDnelo, as=ED como sus anexos. Igualmente, le= comunicamos que cualquier retenci=F3n, revisi=F3n no autorizada, distribuc= i=F3n, divulgaci=F3n, reenv=EDo, copia, impresi=F3n, reproducci=F3n, o uso = indebido de este mensaje y/o sus anexos, est=E1 estrictamente prohibida y s= ancionada legalmente. EDATEL S.A. no se hace responsable en ning=FAn caso p= or da=F1os derivados de la recepci=F3n del presente mensaje. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:08:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84917106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:08:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADCF78FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:08:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LH8Dc3004794; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:08:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LH8DoE004791; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:08:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:08:13 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: "Roger B.A. Klorese" In-Reply-To: <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:08:13 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:08:17 -0000 >> Second, FreeBSD is not a commercial company, and while this argument may >> have a merit >> for commercial sponsors of FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD itself. > > You seem to be unaware of what percentage of the development and maintenance > staff and the money to pay for them comes from those commercial users. If > FreeBSD cannot maintain the critical mass to continue, it will not continue. but why it isn't clearly stated: "We put clang because sponsors wanted it." From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:10:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20CE710656D0 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:10:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fallofzero@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E42A58FC26 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:10:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so2645182pbb.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:10:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=O/euBBddvQjYHMF4IN7WKbR66IXlliHAtSAGEYonEMM=; b=gc4KBjsdH5MYv+iag6G8KFOcR7lTjX+D/cLCHdxTXZTmfQGBB/OSHJcLhduokEzjpY Isyy61wawPGZ5Dw37C3DOgOEG9loGuonbi/ElRdAnnS6FE9dZT0ncSkeGrXZAGt2xveb 9MMgjT9RH9MMbSQhsrFRWJEeVqJwR6KcqSAzRX9Vk0AvjtSfwbQBMSq4S/R63yZeBQbB vlTTDewtcl2kzcn4j6DNrADK3W6OOM/XYzdr8IdJ8kAnqGClTDIoeeWxziVWQ/2j1VeP mzogJek1+NvcLG0dIJO1anSgAuRo662y1NnRCkHOp99LStZGEJ0MsFrOpfGECjBHKpcn 0lSQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.226.226 with SMTP id rv2mr478560pbc.101.1340298603815; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.58.101 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:10:03 -0600 Message-ID: From: Arlen McIntyre To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: NIC problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:10:05 -0000 I have an Intel Wifi Link 1000 BGN NIC that I'm having trouble getting to work. I have FreeBSD 8.3 installed. I looked in the NOTES file under /usr/src/sys/conf for the driver and did not see it listed. It is PCI. I have tried to configure the settings via the sysinstall command post configuration. I read about Project Evil and other options. I wanted to see if someone could help me out... thanks From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:12:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75407106567D for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:12:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rogerk@queernet.org) Received: from mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (mailbox.onlinepolicy.net [209.237.247.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518C38FC1A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:12:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from RogerKs-MacBook-Air.local (unknown [208.146.43.5]) by mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9007117AF892 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE35110.3030404@queernet.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:51:28 -0700 From: "Roger B.A. Klorese" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <9672338A-45DA-4680-977B-253CEF3201C8@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:12:10 -0000 On 6/21/12 9:47 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> >> True but this applies as much to you. You think you know it all and >> that is quite the probdlem with you. >> And "discussing" with you is a true waste with this attittute. Even >> its free. >> > so stop it. This mailing list isn't your blog. If you want to hear your own voice, go lock yourself in a room. We'll all be happier. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:12:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93D1B1065675 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:12:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rogerk@queernet.org) Received: from mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (mailbox.onlinepolicy.net [209.237.247.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78CF88FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:12:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from RogerKs-MacBook-Air.local (unknown [208.146.43.5]) by mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E28917ADA10; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:12:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:12:54 -0700 From: "Roger B.A. Klorese" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:12:55 -0000 On 6/21/12 10:08 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> Second, FreeBSD is not a commercial company, and while this argument >>> may have a merit >>> for commercial sponsors of FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD >>> itself. >> >> You seem to be unaware of what percentage of the development and >> maintenance staff and the money to pay for them comes from those >> commercial users. If FreeBSD cannot maintain the critical mass to >> continue, it will not continue. > > but why it isn't clearly stated: > > "We put clang because sponsors wanted it." > Sponsors didn't want clang. Sponsors wanted not to be encumbered by a GPLv3 license. If there was a "shmoodlepoodle" compiler instead of "clang" that met this requirement instead and was at least as performant and stable, it would likely have been selected. If you don't like clang as an option, go away and come back when you've built a better compiler and offered it under an acceptable license. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:15:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01369106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:15:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61C208FC20 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:14:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LHEtCe004986; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:14:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LHEsQj004983; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:14:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:14:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Polytropon In-Reply-To: <20120621185538.a9aa6e5b.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: References: <20120621185538.a9aa6e5b.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:14:55 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Fred Morcos Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:15:00 -0000 > the experimental development branch -HEAD, it _might_ happen that > the system doesn't even compile, but updated 30 minutes after > that "accident", it runs fine again. :-) > And finally unless doing tests or using private not-really-important computer, don't just install newest FreeBSD because it's out. I - and lot of others - still use 8.* for production while 9.* is out already for some time. Anyway i think that "bleeding edge" -HEAD release is still more stable than "stable" linux kernel. >> q) I would assume UFS with J+SU is "fast enough" for a laptop? > > I think so. For a laptop, you _might_ consider adding encryption. > Just in case. You never know. for a server - you MUST do this :) >> q) The second laptop has an SSD, would UFS with/without J and >> with/without SU or ZFS make more sense for it? > > There are several parameters that you can tweak (see "man tunefs"), > I would suggest a single partition spanning the whole SSD, and > journaling would not be contraproductive. s/would not/would/ i assume this as mistake. do not journal on SSD. it increases amount of writes, and fsck is quick anyway. do not forget of -t option with newfs (TRIM enable) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:16:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 053301065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:16:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C0A98FC21 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:16:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LHFxgF004997; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:15:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LHFxL7004994; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:15:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:15:58 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Marco Antonio Muskus Muskus In-Reply-To: <4FE34DEC.9070908@edatel.com.co> Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <9672338A-45DA-4680-977B-253CEF3201C8@gmail.com> <4FE34DEC.9070908@edatel.com.co> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:15:59 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:16:06 -0000 > ZFS is superior to UFS. End of the history. > > There is no point in use old technology (UFS) when the new one can make the > same as the older and better ? anyway there must be morons here like me that after observation conclude that older is far safer and better. But if you want "end of history" then fine. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:16:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 452E5106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:16:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A29348FC22 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:16:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LHGVIh005007; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:16:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LHGV0M005004; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:16:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:16:31 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: "Roger B.A. Klorese" In-Reply-To: <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:16:32 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:16:35 -0000 >> >> "We put clang because sponsors wanted it." >> > > > Sponsors didn't want clang. Sponsors wanted not to be encumbered by a GPLv3 they are not. programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:17:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEE5910656A7 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:17:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rogerk@queernet.org) Received: from mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (mailbox.onlinepolicy.net [209.237.247.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90D5A8FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:17:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from RogerKs-MacBook-Air.local (unknown [64.74.30.124]) by mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2151217ADA10; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:17:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE3571F.6040209@queernet.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:17:19 -0700 From: "Roger B.A. Klorese" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:17:20 -0000 On 6/21/12 10:16 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> >>> "We put clang because sponsors wanted it." >>> >> >> >> Sponsors didn't want clang. Sponsors wanted not to be encumbered by a >> GPLv3 > they are not. > programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. > Programs that link to GPLv3 libraries are encumbered. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:18:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7C6106567C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:18:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Dave.Robison@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EF268FC14 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:18:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.16]) by ltcfislmsgpa01.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5LHHZmc011216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:18:13 -0500 Received: from lefty.vicor.com (10.14.152.63) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:18:01 -0500 Message-ID: <4FE35745.9060601@fisglobal.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:17:57 -0700 From: "Robison, Dave" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:10.0) Gecko/20120209 Thunderbird/10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.63] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.7.7855, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-06-21_03:2012-06-21, 2012-06-21, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: david.robison@fisglobal.com List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:18:15 -0000 On 06/21/2012 10:08, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> >> You seem to be unaware of what percentage of the development and >> maintenance staff and the money to pay for them comes from those >> commercial users. If FreeBSD cannot maintain the critical mass to >> continue, it will not continue. > > but why it isn't clearly stated: > > "We put clang because sponsors wanted it." > Because there's no reason to do that. It's an asinine suggestion. Clang is here to stay. Most of us are happy about that decision. GCC will still be in the ports tree for those of you who prefer to run it. Your questions have been answered repeatedly, ad nauseam, but apparently you don't like and won't accept the answers so you ask the questions again and again. You don't like Clang. You prefer GCC. We get it. -- Dave Robison Sales Solution Architect II FIS Banking Solutions 510/621-2089 (w) 530/518-5194 (c) 510/621-2020 (f) daver@vicor.com david.robison@fisglobal.com _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:22:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A7C106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:22:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Dave.Robison@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B2DF8FC15 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:22:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.17]) by ltcfislmsgpa07.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5LHMAwt010985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:27 -0500 Received: from lefty.vicor.com (10.14.152.63) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:22:17 -0500 Message-ID: <4FE35846.3080106@fisglobal.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:22:14 -0700 From: "Robison, Dave" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:10.0) Gecko/20120209 Thunderbird/10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.63] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.7.7855, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-06-21_03:2012-06-21, 2012-06-21, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: david.robison@fisglobal.com List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:22:28 -0000 On 06/21/2012 00:33, Hooman Fazaeli wrote: > Dear community > > In the past, I built a 8TB ZFS log server on freebsd 7.4. > However, the system experienced instablility after long up times. > My main motive to use ZFS was UFS inability to support large > file systems. > > Now, I want to the same thing on 8.3 and wanted to know > your opinion on ZFS stability. Is there any success story using > ZFS in 24x7, large volume, heavy duty servers? Is there any > other option other than ZFS to build larger than 2TB file systems? > We use ZFS for critical data and are quite happy with it. I've been using it in production since 8.1-R and have yet to have a problem. Make sure you do your zpool scrubs regularly. I use a cron job. We are currently migrating our customer RAID arrays to ZFS to ameliorate the multi-hour FSCK situations. -- Dave Robison Sales Solution Architect II FIS Banking Solutions 510/621-2089 (w) 530/518-5194 (c) 510/621-2020 (f) daver@vicor.com david.robison@fisglobal.com _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:25:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46071106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:25:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7B638FC20 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:25:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5DCBCF52.dip.t-dialin.net [93.203.207.82]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5LHPIWL042697; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:25:18 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5LHP6qi003470; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:25:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5LHOsLV003026; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:25:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201206211725.q5LHOsLV003026@fire.js.berklix.net> To: DStaal@usa.net From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:35:57 EDT." <88136b1c2b7ffcd86d9ff4180a39cabf@mail.magehandbook.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:24:54 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:25:20 -0000 > Agreed. Wojciech Puchar is in my 'probable troll' file at this point, Here too, http://berklix.com/~jhs/dots/.procmailrc.lists Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:29:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEFE51065672 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:29:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80B1D8FC1C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:29:02 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Cc:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=PzkcaWZYTOLVfvWrQshmOeQ3OcqGLOptJRbn3RbhEh8=; b=KFIfHQNrfHPWFn1hZo5fIbEHmzT1KSs4vc4BSd+uf8bAIRTjQyUJ+3MKgl2G/EVjU6ZmCfMcsqZxJ7H9S1q8/+2vsQ93muRij/RtcsCYMhQIQTBF0+eK1IXo0wcy31ZS; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ShlBl-0006e1-C2; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:29:02 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340299735-94480-94479/5/30; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:28:55 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:28:55 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:29:02 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:16:31 -0500, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. This has not been decided in court yet. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:29:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B91BC1065673 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:29:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A5D58FC1B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:29:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LHTcgR009168; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:29:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LHTcnW009165; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:29:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:29:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: "Roger B.A. Klorese" In-Reply-To: <4FE3571F.6040209@queernet.org> Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> <4FE3571F.6040209@queernet.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:29:38 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:29:41 -0000 >> they are not. >> programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. >> > > Programs that link to GPLv3 libraries are encumbered. you mean libgcc_s.so.1 and libstdc++? scanned /bin and /usr/bin and few programs do link it - all are C++ written. None IMHO are needed in closed-source system really, anyway (i don't have clang installed now) what clang compiled C++ programs use as libstdc++ ? do clang provide it? cannot you just use this (or other) nonGPL library? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:30:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 968F21065678 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:30:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039D78FC20 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:30:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LHUNfV009179; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:30:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LHUN07009176; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:30:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:30:23 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: "Robison, Dave" In-Reply-To: <4FE35745.9060601@fisglobal.com> Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35745.9060601@fisglobal.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:30:23 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:30:32 -0000 > Because there's no reason to do that. It's an asinine suggestion. > > Clang is here to stay. Most of us are happy about that decision. GCC Because most that are not already stopped and ignored thing. and use GCC. Politics won. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:30:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBBBE10657DD for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:30:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 352068FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:30:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LHUew0009185; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:30:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LHUe2B009182; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:30:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:30:40 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Felder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:30:40 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:30:53 -0000 z> wrote: > >> programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. > > This has not been decided in court yet. sources please! From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:31:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F1B61065674 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:31:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1408FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:31:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5LHV4HL015216; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:31:05 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Polytropon Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:31:03 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <20120621185538.a9aa6e5b.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20120621185538.a9aa6e5b.freebsd@edvax.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206220031.03385.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: Fred Morcos Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:31:15 -0000 Hi, On Thursday 21 June 2012 23:55:38 Polytropon wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:24:26 +0200, Fred Morcos wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Wojciech Puchar > > q) Is it possible to get native resolution on the console? I played > > with vesa and vidcontrol but could never get what I wanted. Native > > resolution would require KMS? > > As far as I know, KMS (kernel mode settings) is specific to Linux. past tense, please. > FreeBSD has several VESA modes bigger than 80x25. But I have to > admit that I don't see a problem in using this default mode during > initialization time. Later on, xterms (also those containing SSH > and screen sessions) can be configured any size under X. Not really. I never found out why PCBSD could use my 1366x768 screen under VESA but FreeBSD couldn't. The new KMS does it all. > Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:32:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D7731065672 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:32:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C245D8FC19 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:32:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LHWex6009191; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:32:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LHWeCJ009188; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:32:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:32:39 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: "Julian H. Stacey" In-Reply-To: <201206211725.q5LHOsLV003026@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: References: <201206211725.q5LHOsLV003026@fire.js.berklix.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:32:40 +0200 (CEST) Cc: DStaal@usa.net, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:32:45 -0000 >> Agreed. Wojciech Puchar is in my 'probable troll' file at this point, > > Here too, http://berklix.com/~jhs/dots/.procmailrc.lists > very good. just block me, instead of performing aggresive replies and personal attacks. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:33:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93A68106567B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:33:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 600A98FC21 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:33:42 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Cc:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=SK8tYxrUTz5Njk+RCqdTj8yqhvYjN8rzuzcIM6/9Rtk=; b=n1yBwdtXJBgI8Aj7yuPVMKyc2wOHpUHXCnIyHUyjvaIwG9QjEf4Otg2bTHPgNuIPajSqs/fJIV6lVX8g+esjC3sPvz+kObSVZTD2wxD30Arg7+46SkeKHg2ZP1XQY/C5; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ShlGH-0006e1-8Z; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:33:42 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340300020-94480-94479/5/31; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:33:40 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:33:40 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:33:42 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:30:40 -0500, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > z> wrote: >> >>> programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. >> >> This has not been decided in court yet. > > > sources please! Google "GPLv3 court case". There are no applicable results. Until a Judge decides what the license truly means everyone using it is at risk. As you've already been told it's not English it's Law From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:36:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F39351065672 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:36:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578068FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:36:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LHa319009242; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:36:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LHa3Px009239; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:36:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:36:03 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Felder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:36:03 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:36:11 -0000 >> >> sources please! > > Google "GPLv3 court case". There are no applicable results. Until a Judge > decides what the license truly means everyone using it is at risk. true. But why anyone from FreeBSD fundation didn't just write official letter to GNU "Free" Software Foundation asking for just that case? Nothing to loose, lots to gain. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:37:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49BEF106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:37:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1615E8FC24 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:37:50 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=XdvThUgN6/jx3zOSZQZEkMfx8B/l2GepkRrP2m2cBrE=; b=i1/Pn6vuidZuCeWH/rxgxrrJ3jnU2gzUiBEnFIH15bi+sE6cxx/bXgtnZCIGG67BK0TswHs/VVomJMUC7ACuUaE1K5Lsn27fuYwO1Qms5Pn/08Pwx6Fyp4XYcFpwtH3F; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ShlKH-0006e1-8n; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:37:49 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340300268-94480-94479/5/32; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:37:48 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:37:48 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:37:50 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:36:03 -0500, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > But why anyone from FreeBSD fundation didn't just write official letter > to GNU "Free" Software Foundation asking for just that case? There needs to be a lawsuit and lawyers and judges need to be involved. You can't just ask the FSF to "explain" themselves. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:40:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B70106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:40:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Dave.Robison@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 150608FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:40:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.17]) by ltcfislmsgpa07.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5LHewSm000599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:40:58 -0500 Received: from lefty.vicor.com (10.14.152.63) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:40:57 -0500 Message-ID: <4FE35CA5.2030405@fisglobal.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:40:53 -0700 From: "Robison, Dave" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:10.0) Gecko/20120209 Thunderbird/10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35745.9060601@fisglobal.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.63] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.7.7855, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-06-21_05:2012-06-21, 2012-06-21, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: david.robison@fisglobal.com List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:40:59 -0000 On 06/21/2012 10:30, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> Because there's no reason to do that. It's an asinine suggestion. >> >> Clang is here to stay. Most of us are happy about that decision. GCC > > Because most that are not already stopped and ignored thing. and use GCC. > > Politics won. > Excellent. We have a winner. Now you can stop commenting. -- Dave Robison Sales Solution Architect II FIS Banking Solutions 510/621-2089 (w) 530/518-5194 (c) 510/621-2020 (f) daver@vicor.com david.robison@fisglobal.com _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 17:47:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B97DC1065690 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:47:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rogerk@queernet.org) Received: from mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (mailbox.onlinepolicy.net [209.237.247.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AAB78FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:47:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from RogerKs-MacBook-Air.local (unknown [64.74.30.124]) by mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3635717ADF17 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE35E28.6000808@queernet.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:47:20 -0700 From: "Roger B.A. Klorese" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:47:20 -0000 On 6/21/12 10:36 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> >>> sources please! >> >> Google "GPLv3 court case". There are no applicable results. Until a >> Judge decides what the license truly means everyone using it is at risk. > > true. > > But why anyone from FreeBSD fundation didn't just write official > letter to GNU "Free" Software Foundation asking for just that case? Because what FSF says is irrelevant. What courts decide is all that counts. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 18:05:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 207031065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:05:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from legolas@legolasweb.nl) Received: from smtpq1.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net (smtpq1.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net [212.54.42.164]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C781C8FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:05:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [212.54.42.135] (helo=smtp4.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq1.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ShlR6-00053K-F4 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:44:52 +0200 Received: from 5357e32a.cm-6-8d.dynamic.ziggo.nl ([83.87.227.42] helo=homey.local) by smtp4.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ShlR6-0005YG-64 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:44:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:45:35 +0200 From: Stas Verberkt To: In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> Message-ID: X-Sender: legolas@legolasweb.nl User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.7.2 X-Ziggo-spambar: -- X-Ziggo-spamscore: -2.7 X-Ziggo-spamreport: ALL_TRUSTED=-1, BAYES_20=-0.001, PROLO_TRUST_RDNS=-3, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.2, WORDPRESS_PLUS=0.12 X-Ziggo-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Flag: No Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:05:46 -0000 Mark Felder schreef op 21-06-2012 19:28: > On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:16:31 -0500, Wojciech Puchar > wrote: > >> programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. > > This has not been decided in court yet. > Additionally, the exceptions for using the GCC runtime library for non-GPL executables is limited to what hey call "eligible compilation processes", what rules out using proprietary GCC plugins or other combinations of core GCC functionality with non-GPL tooling and extensions. Please note that this is indeed not tested in court. Therefore, reality may turn out even more interesting. That's why a lawyer's answer should always be "it depends". :) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 18:08:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B8F01065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:08:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root1101@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D798FC12 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:08:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so1083479bkv.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:08:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IC+uXCHAWmLgSO4d+rU6+QuZ/kKCwhDc1CLDJVJPZNA=; b=nC3H7qyMybA57rRoXC3lNCBxOd7tK6ZvYufi4JqyO6DEkShLFTMhWP163ry3h5HBsl sz46uZh7Z6/cmGEgq14lOXxotHChzcV+mcB67popl6kXztqzW843nVNsTQI6tNR/IprK TR17k5DObi/7CtOTjaUfrpJjccN/0EVYC0P8VT/5uBZZEkmk+lM7MxnfNioWlb9qBfhx w9vg6cKu/yOAV5lFSc9ii7mijCJLe23yVDvg3tToLm/iosAJPZeXOdPnbdQvtCJUy9wA 0gbM4gnW6mCOwbrxHNBGhLvHLAMmq3URt7/UihZ0GGOwolCvK260Bi6MRkrYD4g0qykC 0d1Q== Received: by 10.152.145.42 with SMTP id sr10mr27509807lab.16.1340302112486; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (ppp91-79-220-27.pppoe.mtu-net.ru. [91.79.220.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id er3sm19040291lbb.16.2012.06.21.11.08.30 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE36367.4080108@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:09:43 +0400 From: =?UTF-8?B?0JXQstCz0LXQvdC40Lkg0JvQsNC60YLQsNC90L7Qsg==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120420 Thunderbird/10.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <201206211725.q5LHOsLV003026@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , DStaal@usa.net, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:08:34 -0000 21.06.2012 21:32, Wojciech Puchar пиŃет: >>> Agreed. Wojciech Puchar is in my 'probable troll' file at this point, >> >> Here too, http://berklix.com/~jhs/dots/.procmailrc.lists >> > very good. just block me, instead of performing aggresive replies and > personal attacks. > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Only after you, my man, only after you. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 18:21:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75FDB106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:21:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2C628FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:21:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LILHVF013418; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:21:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LILHTl013413; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:21:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:21:17 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: =?KOI8-R?B?5dfHxc7JyiDswcvUwc7P1w==?= In-Reply-To: <4FE36367.4080108@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <201206211725.q5LHOsLV003026@fire.js.berklix.net> <4FE36367.4080108@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:21:17 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , DStaal@usa.net, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:21:22 -0000 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > Only after you, my man, only after you. > not yours. i'm not homosexual From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 18:22:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CC4A106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:22:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB63F8FC25 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:22:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LIM7H3013594; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:22:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LIM7d2013590; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:22:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:22:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Stas Verberkt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:22:08 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:22:11 -0000 >> > Additionally, the exceptions for using the GCC runtime library for non-GPL > executables > is limited to what hey call "eligible compilation processes", what rules out > using > proprietary GCC plugins or other combinations of core GCC functionality with > non-GPL > tooling and extensions. > Please note that this is indeed not tested in court. Therefore, reality may > turn out > even more interesting. That's why a lawyer's answer should always be "it > depends". :) GNU GPL is even worse that i ever dreamed (in worst horror). From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 18:25:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91CED1065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:25:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joe.gain@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com (mail-wi0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B348FC1E for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:25:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhm11 with SMTP id hm11so2637175wib.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:25:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Ev23JrGn64fDzoCzAVL5OMdDm9KZkzxYHESz2H0vHM8=; b=FYZDAEcuVRw6NMx1w7KvAmIwcuhCw1hZMB+wYakLGzF1ssIgq7WjWL7lk3tRce9AfO L0lMVdGcxcU+/4orZXAF3/Q+AGOlpR6k3OUb9p0xpgeskANaw3lCwE97E0/tSfYc9Edf wcHRtQRovBRX0dBGY99ojHvBN2mfc0OVWCPY5TP2DFEndU1zaQpv6Jbzl8ZOYzPaCoyU 6YY7CpqrRCsLdteSClElLu8TxtqMmK/K9EEULZQvOuarQ4JnzQJzRd8HYA+TCyWy+fOq AyT/3MlcOh2/PbqhXc2e87+/KCfOt5mpl2kstlWWk2N69K4J8Mg7XdP7smLxFUnHWr+d AhSA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.100.2 with SMTP id eu2mr22303905wib.10.1340303129943; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.220.96 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:25:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:25:29 +0200 Message-ID: From: Joe Gain To: Stas Verberkt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:25:31 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 7:45 PM, Stas Verberkt wrote: > Mark Felder schreef op 21-06-2012 19:28: > >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:16:31 -0500, Wojciech Puchar >> wrote: >> >>> programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. >> >> >> This has not been decided in court yet. >> > Additionally, the exceptions for using the GCC runtime library for non-GPL > executables > is limited to what hey call "eligible compilation processes", what rules out > using > proprietary GCC plugins or other combinations of core GCC functionality with > non-GPL > tooling and extensions. > Please note that this is indeed not tested in court. Therefore, reality may > turn out > even more interesting. That's why a lawyer's answer should always be "it > depends". :) > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" So, has anyone compared the performance of clang vs gcc compiled in daily use-- for example as a server? Anyone can cherry pick a couple of binaries, but how important is this for the performance of FreeBSD world? -- joe gain jacob-burckhardt-str. 16 78464 konstanz germany +49 (0)7531 60389 (...otherwise in ???) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 18:41:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED98106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:41:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A221D8FC12 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:41:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LIfdNa016807; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:41:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5LIfcGu016803; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:41:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:41:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Joe Gain In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:41:39 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Stas Verberkt , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:41:42 -0000 > > So, has anyone compared the performance of clang vs gcc compiled in daily use-- > for example as a server? Anyone can cherry pick a couple of binaries, but how > important is this for the performance of FreeBSD world? not big, as with almost any compiler. Most workload are dominated by cache misses and jump misprediction. That's why my gzip comparision resulted in minimally worse clang-compiled one (1% or less), while f2c converted fortran code for scientific calculations showed large differences. i expect large difference in eg. cjpeg, lame etc and rather small in for eg. perl From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 18:55:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59D0B106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:55:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gobble.wa@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f170.google.com (mail-wi0-f170.google.com [209.85.212.170]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16A28FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:55:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhq12 with SMTP id hq12so38099wib.1 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:55:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=B2L3Ku+KuoJlHwhkh9t3CROT4tjq0GAywyYCdsJ6nhU=; b=PdDUBpSPP83Bsn0vCcHx4ERw7NGTXTBswnChNRPTgpgLa5JtabRg+Fm5AKvJkuKDBG 1KLbETnjj+/rg2kSBm5X6Cm1k2ujNPLCW2CXyUNqvzv1f2Mtz/t+SucDc4DWbZPNkNtc eWUEGPgZVTPfyxu2CB6s+J88MGN6pR1mOc9y8pAsNt3b+X6V3+LgwAF1PLKUkMaakcXC owCKTs3H+8hJhlggMKvuVkEiM5L4jQuwec/TdkhZwCW4JKiC5jafPF/MHwXKgHiMI0SI Bituc6w1d8hE04TDfA1eE7k4snSwUX9GfnNk1MIv1rNtYBGiXGtTHYbUK0kXAnO3gJZX oRSQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.81.65 with SMTP id y1mr22527483wix.1.1340304928733; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.138.220 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.138.220 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:55:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:55:28 -0700 Message-ID: From: Waitman Gobble To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:55:36 -0000 On Jun 21, 2012 11:23 AM, "Wojciech Puchar" wrote: >>> >>> >> Additionally, the exceptions for using the GCC runtime library for non-GPL executables >> is limited to what hey call "eligible compilation processes", what rules out using >> proprietary GCC plugins or other combinations of core GCC functionality with non-GPL >> tooling and extensions. >> Please note that this is indeed not tested in court. Therefore, reality may turn out >> even more interesting. That's why a lawyer's answer should always be "it depends". :) > > > GNU GPL is even worse that i ever dreamed (in worst horror). > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" I have seen a few instances which are "risky" IMHO... or at least interesting to ponder.. one is a claim that GPLv3 enables the vendor to "require" the use of their trademark logo (flowplayer)... which opens up other legal issues i think, and another, i recently purchased a router, in the package was a small piece of paper stating the device includes GPL software, and if i want the source i need to write (snail mail) their legal department and explain why i want it. (d-link). but i agree the issues have not been legally decided AFAIK. anyway, i think a BSD licensed FreeBSD operating system works for me. Waitman Gobble San Jose California USA From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 19:04:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6924E1065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:04:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rogerk@queernet.org) Received: from mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (mailbox.onlinepolicy.net [209.237.247.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B9C18FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:04:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from RogerKs-MacBook-Air.local (unknown [64.74.30.124]) by mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BE1117AF89C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE37048.406@queernet.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:04:40 -0700 From: "Roger B.A. Klorese" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:04:42 -0000 On 6/21/12 10:30 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > z> wrote: >> >>> programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. >> >> This has not been decided in court yet. > > > sources please! Logical fallacy -- looking for a non-existence proof. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 19:05:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0BAE1065673 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:05:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rogerk@queernet.org) Received: from mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (mailbox.onlinepolicy.net [209.237.247.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F208FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:05:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from RogerKs-MacBook-Air.local (unknown [64.74.30.124]) by mailbox.onlinepolicy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD2D117AF89C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE3707B.4010109@queernet.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:05:31 -0700 From: "Roger B.A. Klorese" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <201206211725.q5LHOsLV003026@fire.js.berklix.net> <4FE36367.4080108@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:05:31 -0000 On 6/21/12 11:21 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>> >> Only after you, my man, only after you. >> > not yours. i'm not homosexual For which the gay community is grateful. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 19:12:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE460106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:12:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cyberleo@cyberleo.net) Received: from paka.cyberleo.net (paka.cyberleo.net [66.219.31.21]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3C98FC12 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:12:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [172.16.44.4] (den.cyberleo.net [216.80.73.130]) by paka.cyberleo.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 674D429652; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4FE37203.3020404@cyberleo.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:12:03 -0500 From: CyberLeo Kitsana User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.4) Gecko/20120617 Thunderbird/10.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Odhiambo Washington References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: questions Subject: Re: A bash scripting question X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:12:11 -0000 On 06/21/2012 08:40 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > How Can I simplify/perfect the following script, so that I read _ALL_ the > lines in the file and act on the content as shown below, so that I do not > have to specifiy an action per line? > > This below is doing exactly what i need BUT reading one line at a time > untill the 10th line, if i want more i add manually... > This might help some1 someday! But if there is a way to perfect it please > do so..... > > #!/usr/local/bin/bash > > smsfile=email_to_sms > `grep Subject /var/spool/mail/sms >>$smsfile` > if [[ -s $smsfile ]] ; then > cat /dev/null > /var/spool/mail/sms > sed -i 's/Subject: //g' $smsfile > echo `sed -n '1p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==1 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '2p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==2 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '3p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==3 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '4p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==4 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '5p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==5 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '6p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==6 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '7p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==7 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '8p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==8 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '9p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==9 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > echo `sed -n '10p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==10 > {print $1}' $smsfile` > else > echo "***********Sorry the SMS FILE "$smsfile" is empty.************" > fi > gammu-smsd start > cat email_to_sms >> email_to_sms2 > cat /dev/null > email_to_sms Off the top of my head: ----8<---- #!/bin/sh -e sed -e '/^Subject: /!d; s/^Subject: //' /var/spool/mail/sms > "${smsfile}" :>/var/spool/mail/sms xargs -L1 /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT < "${smsfile}" mv -f "${smsfile}" "${smsfile}.bak" ----8<---- No loops necessary. By the way, what's gammu, and why is it in /usr/bin ? -- Fuzzy love, -CyberLeo Technical Administrator CyberLeo.Net Webhosting http://www.CyberLeo.Net Furry Peace! - http://wwww.fur.com/peace/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 19:26:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55B01065672 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:26:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D3A8FC17 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:26:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-40-10.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.40.10]) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EE30280F5; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:26:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q5LJQSjB003926; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:26:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:26:28 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Wojciech Puchar Message-Id: <20120621212628.6020680e.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20120621185538.a9aa6e5b.freebsd@edvax.de> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Fred Morcos Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:26:30 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:14:54 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > the experimental development branch -HEAD, it _might_ happen that > > the system doesn't even compile, but updated 30 minutes after > > that "accident", it runs fine again. :-) > > > And finally unless doing tests or using private not-really-important > computer, don't just install newest FreeBSD because it's out. > > I - and lot of others - still use 8.* for production while 9.* is out > already for some time. For home desktops, usually -STABLE is a good solution. Server maintainers tend to use -RELEASE-pX (which also makes binary updates easier). > >> q) I would assume UFS with J+SU is "fast enough" for a laptop? > > > > I think so. For a laptop, you _might_ consider adding encryption. > > Just in case. You never know. > > for a server - you MUST do this :) It's worth mentioning that it's not good practice to have a keyfile-based decryption which is "unlocked" by a USB stick permanently sticking in the server. Security is nearly zero in such a constellation. Passphrase-based decryption is good as long as you have physical access to the server and only you (and maybe those you trust) have a secure (!!!) password which needs to be entered manually at system startup to "unlock" the /home drive or partition. > >> q) The second laptop has an SSD, would UFS with/without J and > >> with/without SU or ZFS make more sense for it? > > > > There are several parameters that you can tweak (see "man tunefs"), > > I would suggest a single partition spanning the whole SSD, and > > journaling would not be contraproductive. > > s/would not/would/ > i assume this as mistake. do not journal on SSD. it increases amount of > writes, and fsck is quick anyway. Good you spotted it - of course there is no need for journaling in this case (too much writes, no real benefit). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 19:31:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B5E2106566B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:31:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 424D28FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:31:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-40-10.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.40.10]) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4495327EC0; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:31:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q5LJVmjc004075; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:31:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:31:48 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Mark Felder Message-Id: <20120621213148.64bc9afe.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:31:50 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:33:40 -0500, Mark Felder wrote: > Google "GPLv3 court case". There are no applicable results. Until a Judge > decides what the license truly means everyone using it is at risk. > > As you've already been told it's not English it's Law I assume that there's not just one case neccessary (to be carried out to the end): What about countries with different jurisdiction? For example, Germany doesn't have "precedence law" as it is very famous in the USA. Given basically the same situations, two judges can decide differently. Cases only have effect on the parties who fight there - except very few cases where decisions "get promoted to level of law", it doesn't mean anything to others. And that's just within Germany. How about different countries? Does a case (e. g. M. S. Bob vs. R. M. Stallman) have any effect outside the USA? I am not a lawyer, but because I have some legal knowledge I know for sure that "what's written in the law" and "how law is practiced in reality" does very much differ, in unpredictable and volatile. So I don't make any claims here. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 19:40:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B14FD106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:40:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3447F8FC1B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:40:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5DCBCF52.dip.t-dialin.net [93.203.207.82]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5LJed9v043609; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:40:39 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5LJeQWp004042; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:40:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5LJe9fI003726; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:40:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201206211940.q5LJe9fI003726@fire.js.berklix.net> To: CyberLeo Kitsana From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:12:03 CDT." <4FE37203.3020404@cyberleo.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:40:09 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: Odhiambo Washington , questions Subject: Re: A bash scripting question X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:40:44 -0000 CyberLeo Kitsana wrote Odhiambo Washington: > By the way, what's gammu, /usr/ports/comms/gammu presumably ( for mobile phone connection ) > and why is it in /usr/bin ? Pass. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 19:45:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E4391065675 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:45:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy7-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy7.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A81D8FC18 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:45:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 29608 invoked by uid 0); 21 Jun 2012 19:45:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy7.bluehost.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2012 19:45:10 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=3UgpyHKYSnCp13x+OlTfVicQbCqbuhTvotVD9dBpgtM=; b=FvAwjp7Ih3CGf802zn7Qc4cU800uS+N379yFGbzRvk79O07yXwM+CXI+TgN6N9u7hmvwDhOEDHf/dbrC8qSAhRW5oh5J71LSQFEMxAZ1LKmcglekQ6EkD6UsRSf8MX2w; Received: from [63.253.113.170] (port=41278 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShnJV-0005Zg-1p for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:45:09 -0600 Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:44:52 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120621180200.GA575@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FE1BD0E.5060300@pukruppa.de> <20120620224030.1a0dc3b4.freebsd@edvax.de> <20120621001809.da9ce415.freebsd@edvax.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 63.253.113.170 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:45:11 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:25:22AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >You're being paid to write a program for a customer. You > > i don't talk that case, but if i am hired to write some part of > program as an employer in software company. There are basically four circumstances that might apply here, as far as I'm aware: 1. Your work is considered "work for hire", where you are just a cog in the corporate machine and the corporation is the "creator" or "author" of record (and thus the default copyright holder). This means you would have to get permission ("license") to use the work outside of your function as an employee. 2. Your work can be used by the employer under exclusive license, which means you cannot use the work yourself except under strictly limited conditions specified in law. 3. Your work can be transfered to the employer, so that though you are the default copyright holder an agreement (possibly an employment agreement, but generally requiring a distinct agreement separate from the employment agreement itself for this case) establishes the legal transfer of copyright from you to the employer. 4. Your work is provided to the employer under a non-exclusive license, which means you can then license it to others as well. By far the most common case for a standard employment relationship is case 1. Pathological edge-cases may adjust these circumstances. My assumptions in writing this are based on my experience with US copyright law. I am not a lawyer, and this does not constitute legal advice, but only an explanation of my understanding and perspective with regard to copyright law. > > > >BUT - as everyone is free to obtain, modify and re-issue GPL > >source code, I'm not sure such a consensus could be reached. > > by creating a BSD licenced fork - constructed from parts written by > all developers that - as you said - have personal right to their > code. This is pretty much exactly what happened with the Pentadactyl extension for Firefox. The people who had been doing the majority of development work for the Vimperator extension for a while, but were not the project "owner", took the code they had created and rewrote (from scratch) any additional code needed to make it work, creating the Pentadactyl project. The original Vimperator project used a copyleft license (the GPL), and the new Pentadactyl project used a copyfree license (I don't recall which, probably either the Simplified BSD License or the MIT/X11 License). -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 19:49:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BE35106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:49:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mamuskus@edatel.com.co) Received: from edatel-imsva-01.edatel.com.co (edatel-imsva-01.edatel.com.co [190.109.177.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 142258FC17 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:49:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from edatel-imsva-01.edatel.com.co (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA80 (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8343D478035 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:47:05 -0500 (COT) Received: from correo.edatel.com.co (unknown [10.4.1.76]) by edatel-imsva-01.edatel.com.co (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77365478031 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:47:05 -0500 (COT) Received: from [10.4.4.116] (10.4.4.116) by edatel-hbt-02 (10.4.1.76) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.3.213.0; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:47:16 -0500 Message-ID: <4FE37AB5.7000302@edatel.com.co> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:49:09 -0500 From: Marco Antonio Muskus Muskus User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <201206211725.q5LHOsLV003026@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:49:17 -0000 ZFS is technologically more advance than UFS/UFS2, so, if someone ask to me= which filesystem should be use, my answer is ZFS. You can do on UFS the same on ZFS, but ZFS extend the functionality beyond = "filesystem", that is a plus for IT today. I'm using ZFS for a public HTTP/FTP mirror pushing many TB/Month and a back= up system. Regards, El 21/06/12 12:32, Wojciech Puchar escribi=F3: Agreed. Wojciech Puchar is in my 'probable troll' file at this point, Here too, http://berklix.com/~jhs/dots/.procmailrc.lists very good. just block me, instead of performing aggresive replies and personal attacks. _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing= list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " -- MARCO ANTONIO MUSKUS MUSKUS NOC - Aplicaciones ISP EDATEL S.A. E.S.P. Calle 41 # 52 - 28 Piso 2 Medell=EDn, Antioquia - Colombia Tel=E9fono: (574) 384 6507 Fax: (574) 3846500 www.edatel.net.co mamuskus@edatel.com.co ________________________________ Este mensaje y/o sus anexos son para uso exclusivo de su destinatario inten= cional y puede contener informaci=F3n legalmente protegida por ser confiden= cial. Si usted no es el destinatario intencional del mensaje por favor inf= =F3rmenos de inmediato y elim=EDnelo, as=ED como sus anexos. Igualmente, le= comunicamos que cualquier retenci=F3n, revisi=F3n no autorizada, distribuc= i=F3n, divulgaci=F3n, reenv=EDo, copia, impresi=F3n, reproducci=F3n, o uso = indebido de este mensaje y/o sus anexos, est=E1 estrictamente prohibida y s= ancionada legalmente. EDATEL S.A. no se hace responsable en ning=FAn caso p= or da=F1os derivados de la recepci=F3n del presente mensaje. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 19:56:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C93171065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:56:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89E638FC12 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:56:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.15]) by ltcfislmsgpa01.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5LJuNNR024064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:56:24 -0500 Received: from dtwin (10.14.152.55) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:56:23 -0500 From: Sender: Devin Teske To: "'Odhiambo Washington'" References: <1521E29F-C0BC-46A8-A428-FC7183C6E 689@fisglobal.com> In-Reply-To: <1521E29F-C0BC-46A8-A428-FC7183C6E689@fisglobal.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:56:33 -0700 Message-ID: <136a01cd4fe7$f6053af0$e20fb0d0$@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHHVXHlzLs30//OBCHn7Su2XUxMQAL1LUurAbd/azQCHWvg0QKfyJt0AXM6a2sCAalxtAHyetOdAcqPFJQCMQ/tOwMUUdcZAUJo4RwCNT6zuAKGbk9LAf2+L4SWIjqLsA== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.55] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.7.7855, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-06-21_05:2012-06-21, 2012-06-21, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: 'questions' Subject: RE: A bash scripting question X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:56:24 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- > questions@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Devin Teske > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:24 AM > To: Odhiambo Washington > Cc: questions > Subject: Re: A bash scripting question > > > On Jun 21, 2012, at 6:40 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > > How Can I simplify/perfect the following script, so that I read _ALL_ the > > lines in the file and act on the content as shown below, so that I do not > > have to specifiy an action per line? > > > > This below is doing exactly what i need BUT reading one line at a time > > untill the 10th line, if i want more i add manually... > > This might help some1 someday! But if there is a way to perfect it please > > do so..... > > > > #!/usr/local/bin/bash > > > > smsfile=email_to_sms > > `grep Subject /var/spool/mail/sms >>$smsfile` > > if [[ -s $smsfile ]] ; then > > cat /dev/null > /var/spool/mail/sms > > sed -i 's/Subject: //g' $smsfile > > echo `sed -n '1p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==1 > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > echo `sed -n '2p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==2 > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > echo `sed -n '3p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==3 > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > echo `sed -n '4p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==4 > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > echo `sed -n '5p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==5 > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > echo `sed -n '6p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==6 > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > echo `sed -n '7p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==7 > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > echo `sed -n '8p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==8 > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > echo `sed -n '9p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==9 > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > echo `sed -n '10p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==10 > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > else > > echo "***********Sorry the SMS FILE "$smsfile" is empty.************" > > fi > > gammu-smsd start > > cat email_to_sms >> email_to_sms2 > > cat /dev/null > email_to_sms > > > > Try the following. > > #!/bin/sh > smsfile=email_to_sms > spoolfile=/var/spol/mail/sms > grep Subject "$spoolfile" >> "$smsfile" > if [ -s "$smsfile" ]; then > : > "$spoolfile" > sed -e 's/Subject: //g' "$smsfile" | awk ' > { > if (NR > 10) exit > print | "/usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT " $1 > }' > else > echo "***********Sorry the SMS FILE "$smsfile" is > empty.************" > fi > gammu-smsd start > cat "$smsfile" >> email_to_sms2 > : > "$smsfile" > I can beat my original response (above), while retaining original functionality... #!/bin/sh spoolfile=/var/spool/mail/sms awk -v pat="^Subject: " ' $0 ~ pat { sub(pat,"") print | "/usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT " $1 }' "$spoolfile" Or, as a shell "One-Liner" (compatible with any shell and any awk)... awk -v pat="^Subject: " '$0~pat{sub(pat,"");print|"/usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT "$1}' "$spoolfile" -- Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 20:19:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6FE2106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:19:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96BAD8FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:19:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.17]) by ltcfislmsgpa06.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5LKHcXS016162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:19:40 -0500 Received: from dtwin (10.14.152.55) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:19:31 -0500 From: Sender: Devin Teske To: "'Odhiambo Washington'" References: <1521E29F-C0BC-46A8-A428-FC7183C6E 689@fisglobal.com> <136a01cd4fe7$f6053af0$e20fb0d0$@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <136a01cd4fe7$f6053af0$e20fb0d0$@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:19:41 -0700 Message-ID: <19ee01cd4feb$31896850$949c38f0$@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHHVXHlzLs30//OBCHn7Su2XUxMQAL1LUurAbd/azQCHWvg0QKfyJt0AXM6a2sCAalxtAHyetOdAcqPFJQCMQ/tOwMUUdcZAUJo4RwCNT6zuAKGbk9LAloDSlMC1KuKF5YIuDDA Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.55] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.7.7855, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-06-21_05:2012-06-21, 2012-06-21, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: 'questions' Subject: RE: A bash scripting question X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:19:41 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- > questions@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of dteske@freebsd.org > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 12:57 PM > To: 'Odhiambo Washington' > Cc: 'questions' > Subject: RE: A bash scripting question > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- > > questions@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Devin Teske > > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:24 AM > > To: Odhiambo Washington > > Cc: questions > > Subject: Re: A bash scripting question > > > > > > On Jun 21, 2012, at 6:40 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > > > > How Can I simplify/perfect the following script, so that I read _ALL_ the > > > lines in the file and act on the content as shown below, so that I do not > > > have to specifiy an action per line? > > > > > > This below is doing exactly what i need BUT reading one line at a time > > > untill the 10th line, if i want more i add manually... > > > This might help some1 someday! But if there is a way to perfect it please > > > do so..... > > > > > > #!/usr/local/bin/bash > > > > > > smsfile=email_to_sms > > > `grep Subject /var/spool/mail/sms >>$smsfile` > > > if [[ -s $smsfile ]] ; then > > > cat /dev/null > /var/spool/mail/sms > > > sed -i 's/Subject: //g' $smsfile > > > echo `sed -n '1p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==1 > > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > > echo `sed -n '2p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==2 > > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > > echo `sed -n '3p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==3 > > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > > echo `sed -n '4p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==4 > > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > > echo `sed -n '5p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==5 > > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > > echo `sed -n '6p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==6 > > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > > echo `sed -n '7p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==7 > > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > > echo `sed -n '8p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==8 > > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > > echo `sed -n '9p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==9 > > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > > echo `sed -n '10p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==10 > > > {print $1}' $smsfile` > > > else > > > echo "***********Sorry the SMS FILE "$smsfile" is empty.************" > > > fi > > > gammu-smsd start > > > cat email_to_sms >> email_to_sms2 > > > cat /dev/null > email_to_sms > > > > > > > Try the following. > > > > #!/bin/sh > > smsfile=email_to_sms > > spoolfile=/var/spol/mail/sms > > grep Subject "$spoolfile" >> "$smsfile" > > if [ -s "$smsfile" ]; then > > : > "$spoolfile" > > sed -e 's/Subject: //g' "$smsfile" | awk ' > > { > > if (NR > 10) exit > > print | "/usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT " $1 > > }' > > else > > echo "***********Sorry the SMS FILE "$smsfile" is > > empty.************" > > fi > > gammu-smsd start > > cat "$smsfile" >> email_to_sms2 > > : > "$smsfile" > > > > I can beat my original response (above), while retaining original > functionality... > > #!/bin/sh > spoolfile=/var/spool/mail/sms > awk -v pat="^Subject: " ' > $0 ~ pat { > sub(pat,"") > print | "/usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT " $1 > }' "$spoolfile" > Actually, some functionality was lost in the above translation, let me add the missing functionality back-in... #!/bin/sh spoolfile=/var/spool/mail/sms awk -v pat="^Subject: " ' BEGIN { found = 0 } $0 ~ pat { found++ sub(pat, "") print | "/usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT " $1 } END { if ( ! found ) printf "%sSorry the SMS FILE \"%s\" is empty.%s\n", "***********", FILENAME, "***********" exit ! found }' "$spoolfile" && : > "$spoolfile" > Or, as a shell "One-Liner" (compatible with any shell and any awk)... The above doesn't translate so-well into a one-liner (unless you can stomach really long lines >80 chars), but here it is... awk -v pat="^Subject: " 'BEGIN{found=0}$0~pat{found++;sub(pat, "");print|"/usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT "$1}END{if(!found)printf "%sSorry the SMS FILE \"%s\" is empty.%s\n","***********",FILENAME,"***********";exit !found}' /var/spool/mail/sms && :> /var/spool/mail/sms -- Devin P.S. I think the above is the best you can do. _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 20:53:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B04B6106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:53:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerrymc@jerrymc.net) Received: from jerrymc.net (jerrymc.net [75.75.214.34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629EB8FC14 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:53:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jerrymc.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jerrymc.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5LKrO9P007460; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:53:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jerrymc@jerrymc.net) Received: (from jerrymc@localhost) by jerrymc.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5LKrNkK007459; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:53:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jerrymc) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:53:23 -0400 From: Jerry McAllister To: leeoliveshackelford@surewest.net Message-ID: <20120621205323.GA7445@jerrymc.net> References: <20120621095919.CLF58658@ms5.mc.surewest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <20120621095919.CLF58658@ms5.mc.surewest.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 8.2 Add second hard drive multi-boot X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:53:45 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 09:59:19AM -0700, leeoliveshackelford@surewest.net = wrote: You need to put the FreeBSD boot manager on both disks. Use bootcfg. ////jerry=20 > Good morning, FreeBSD enthusiasts. On my Hewlett-Packard xw4400 workstat= ion, I had one hard drive. I partitioned it with two slices, the first one= for FreeBSD 8.2 with its native file system, and the second one for a futu= re re-installation of Windows XP, to be formatted with NTFS file system. F= reeBSD 8.2 was then installed. The Windows XP re-installation has not yet = taken place. Recently, I installed a second hard drive on the machine that= was already formatted with two slices, both NTFS. Already installed on th= e first of these slices is the Windows XP operating system with a special a= pplication program. Already installed on the second slice is data. It is = my understanding that the FreeBSD loader is supposed to be able to load any= operating system. Upon power-up, the FreeBSD loader presents the followin= g screen: =20 >=20 > F1 Win > F2 FreeBSD > F5 Drive 1 > F6 PXE >=20 > If I depress F1, I receive the response "BOOTMGR is missing. Press Ctrl+= Alt+Del to restart." If I depress F2, FreeBSD loads normally. If I depres= s F5, I receive the response "Missing operatin system." How can I get the = FreeBSD loader to load the Windows XP operating system from the second hard= drive? The G.P.T. disklabel is not used by either of these operating syst= ems, so I do not believe that that is the problem. Although the FreeBSD op= erating system seems to see the second hard drive, it does not mount it upo= n startup. It does not appear in the fstab file. I attempted to mount it = manually using the mount command, without success, just to see if any of th= e data files could be read. I ran fsidk -B on the zeroeth sector of the se= cond hard drive, but that did not seem to help. I know that this type of i= ssue comes up repeatedly in the mailing lists, some of which I have read, b= ut I am flummoxed. Any and all suggestions would be appreciated. Your tru= ly, Lee Shackelfo > r! > d >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 20:59:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05532106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:59:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from developerunix@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f42.google.com (mail-wg0-f42.google.com [74.125.82.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BB8B8FC16 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:59:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so128391wgb.1 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:59:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:x-priority:message-id:to:subject:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LF7pmyaiFhTRe5/k8OkQdjPxKgBenQzaTrjiJQAOHAA=; b=jSGWirU1re+b4+Hz099hfDKefiyUqVqPP8C6chlC28R5Aj+Vz/8W3XN+5aHmVoUT8D 8YrycHjsJVaY1CSP/uRQZBcfZjg0WmjwVOiXVys3rYj3Oo391XN66XM6c9vD5nxyWn0Y knii8S5bwnaK4o9lmFpg63j3nybMXWZekNXdHQ3kGBE1lOhBciCPMAYpyLr5HeeErY0C 4g61vJ98gNGjjChIclmVAFM/xaBdgcFPM28F4Pnjjsv9tZr2+BWa85uumHCUJlV5WaI3 zz0Jr73vV3MKlWlmE8sO0e2XX86fLMHruexjD+TqRLCuy7h43Q3+/2sjcJUGETKw+X4X 9HCA== Received: by 10.216.196.72 with SMTP id q50mr16361767wen.90.1340312380434; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from HP.mits.lv ([136.169.30.17]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f19sm92692999wiw.11.2012.06.21.13.59.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:59:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:59:36 +0300 From: "UNIX developer @ Google.com" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1842148286.20120621235936@gmail.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Problem with routing in VmWare VMS X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:59:47 -0000 Hi! I have problem with routing on FreeBSD. I have ESXi 5 host. In there is 5 VMs and one of them is a BSD. I need create router on BSD. I try to setting up it with this manual: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/network-routing.html but problem is still the same... I cant ping external network from local network. # ping -S 192.168.2.1 192.168.1.4 ... no replays ... many packets sent and 100% loss. Ok ^C. My configs: /ets/sysctl.conf net.inet.ip.forwarding=3D1 /etc/rc.conf ifconfig_em0=3D" inet 192.168.1.10 netmask 255.255.255.0" ifconfig_em1=3D" inet 192.168.2.1 netmask 255.255.255.0" defaultrouter=3D"192.168.1.1" gateway_enable=3D"YES" static_routes=3D"clnet" route_clnet=3D"-net 192.168.2.0/24 192.168.1.10" after booting in netstat is: # netstat -nr Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default 192.168.1.1 UGS 0 2 em0 127.0.0.1 link#4 UH 0 0 lo0 192.168.1.0/24 link#1 U 0 120 em0 192.168.1.10 link#1 UHS 0 0 lo0 192.168.2.0/24 link#2 U 0 0 em1 192.168.2.1 link#2 UHS 0 0 lo0 after /etc/rc.d/routing restart, I see: # netstat -nr Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default 192.168.1.1 UGS 0 2 em0 127.0.0.1 link#4 UH 0 0 lo0 192.168.1.0/24 link#1 U 0 120 em0 192.168.1.10 link#1 UHS 0 0 lo0 192.168.2.0/24 192.168.1.10 U 0 0 em1 192.168.2.1 link#2 UHS 0 0 lo0 What I need to do for other VMs from routed network cat get the external network? Please help me solve this problem. If need more information, please write for me! Thanks! From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 21:13:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CEE7106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:13:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from user-bounce@gateway6.inboxgateway.com) Received: from mxj.securenetgate3.com (mxj.securenetgate3.com [64.13.248.247]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1F0E8FC0A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:12:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 1049958c9f2b83fdbc6ec403193979173181 invoked by 2520 ); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:00:08 -0700 From: Rocketprint Software Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:00:02 -0700 X-CampID: 102 X-Mailer: gateway6.inboxgateway.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@gateway6.inboxgateway.com Message-ID: <102.387278.qmail@gateway6.inboxgateway.com> X-UserID: 387278 X-Report-Abuse: Please report abuse from this campaign at: http://www.inbox25.com/support/report-abuse/102-387278 To: questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Rocketprint Software - Web to Print X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: marketing@Rocketprintsoftware.com List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:13:00 -0000 [visits.php?coid=387278&cid=102] [rps_header_logo.png] A Web to Print solution that WORKS! _________________________________________________________________ There are only 2 objectives you have with a Web to Print system: 1. 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Traffic for 192.168.2.0/24 is bound to em1 and cannot be changed. You setup a static route that basically says "to find 192.168.2.0/24, don't use em1 but instead ask 192.168.1.10 how to find it"? This makes no sense at all. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 22:07:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16562106567B for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:07:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB1078FC15 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:07:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-40-10.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.40.10]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6771A3E0B6; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:07:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q5LM7SiJ007583; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:07:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:07:28 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Message-Id: <20120622000728.6b3c16b9.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20120621095919.CLF58658@ms5.mc.surewest.net> References: <20120621095919.CLF58658@ms5.mc.surewest.net> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 8.2 Add second hard drive multi-boot X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:07:32 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:59:19 -0700 (PDT), leeoliveshackelford@surewest.net wrote: > Although the FreeBSD operating system seems to see the second > hard drive, it does not mount it upon startup. FreeBSD won't mount anything until explicitely told so. Check the output of dmesg (e. g. "dmesg | grep ^ad" or "dmesg | grep ^da") for the drive designation and issue the command yourself. If everything works, you can add an entry to /etc/fstab to make it mount on startup, e. g. # device target type options d p # -------- ---------- ---- --------- - - /dev/ad1s1 /xp/system ntfs ro,noauto 0 0 /dev/ad1s2 /xp/data ntfs ro,noauto 0 0 It might be worth applying other options like -M (mask) to have the missing attributes and "misinterpretation as executables" of NTFS file systems corrects. See the manual for details. > It does not appear in the fstab file. This file is not generated automatically. It's an entirely "user serviceable" part of the OS. > I attempted to mount it manually using the mount command, without > success, just to see if any of the data files could be read. Can you show the mount command? I think it will be something like # mount_ntfs -o ro /dev/ad1s1 /mnt If you need write access, ntfs3g / FUSE would be a good tool. Also see the port "ntfsprogs" which contains useful tools for dealing with NTFS. > I ran fsidk -B on the zeroeth sector of the second hard drive, but > that did not seem to help. You need to apply boot0cfg to install the initial boot blocks. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 22:35:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 101131065670 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:35:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from demelier.david@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B89B8FC0C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:35:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so1107311wer.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:35:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nHXK3UAlDF1GxAzCX/WbEKpAUVaTF2m0GUbatjuYSJo=; b=LPwonA/id+a1So+PFU6Z8l2ENlnKykPakKTE+6kNGMOPY2zpfmbpozRiGwnqsYVWpR A2kEZtDfM4jI8ao/7pp5tIP9YTmKS3zC97UVDYs3Su6LJOM9oJcBOLsW7gbatg9Vp51H RN1oZAnmldUOocAnAFWA6xtVipaCWrSg4fQ2A+Z66tzRNw36TbUV2kSQ7YAOtXgtXLwR 8WC8w3vQIixeLZWiq1CfL36LGB1sAE/gFyd2wdJlXWqlAdEFJ4T5uJ3IFJrdWMzUDgXe qPVTsCasLH0X6lZbJsMT/eumff8nYlvqdBlHnSCTJlWijdDRoZK7y7aDo9GFzmd1Qkhq Y19Q== Received: by 10.180.24.193 with SMTP id w1mr236678wif.5.1340318147422; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Groseille.malikania.fr (197.21.102.84.rev.sfr.net. [84.102.21.197]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z8sm93427373wiy.1.2012.06.21.15.35.45 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE3A1C9.7000606@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:35:53 +0200 From: David Demelier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120602 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernt Hansson References: <4FDA0B5E.4090901@gmail.com> <4FDAAF5E.4040500@gmail.com> <4FDAECF8.4080007@gmail.com> <4FDB1BB0.8060800@bananmonarki.se> <4FDF7326.1080201@gmail.com> <4FE29B16.5060005@bananmonarki.se> In-Reply-To: <4FE29B16.5060005@bananmonarki.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No surround sound with Creative SB Live! card X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:35:54 -0000 On 21/06/2012 05:55, Bernt Hansson wrote: > 2012-06-18 20:27, David Demelier skrev: >> On 15/06/2012 13:25, Bernt Hansson wrote: >>> On 2012-06-15 10:06, David Demelier wrote: >>>> On 15/06/2012 05:43, Edward M wrote: >>>>> On 06/14/2012 09:03 AM, David Demelier wrote: >>>>>> I have an old SB Live! card with a 5.1 speaker set, but i can't get >>>>>> sound from center and rear speakers with mplayer. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm using the snd_emu10kx driver and when I try to play a DVD I get >>>>>> sound only through the front speakers (and LFE) like a 2.1 >>>>>> >>>>>> Adding -channels 6 to the mplayer args does not help. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Sounds like the DVD surround audio is encoded in AC-3 Dolby Digital or >>>>> DTS. So a decorder is needed. >>>>> >>>> >>>> That's what mplayer says: >>>> >>>> ========================================================================== >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Opening audio decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg/libavcodec audio decoders >>>> AUDIO: 48000 Hz, 6 ch, s16le, 448.0 kbit/9.72% (ratio: 56000->576000) >>>> Selected audio codec: [ffac3] afm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg AC-3) >>>> ========================================================================== >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> AO: [oss] 48000Hz 6ch s16le (2 bytes per sample) >>>> >>>> What do you mean by "a decoder is needed"? >>> >>> Have you tried vlc or xine? >> >> It does not work with VLC too, do you need to tweak some settings? > > Try $ vlc filename > > I've tried a file that gave this error > > [0x2bb4b43c] main decoder error: no suitable decoder module for fourcc > `mp4v'. VLC probably does not support this sound or video format. There is just this error: [0x8373b4e70] xcb_xv generic error: no available XVideo adaptor But this is due to my modern graphic card (radeon 5670) -- David Demelier From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 23:03:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ECA9106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:03:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy7-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy7.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 21EAB8FC14 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:03:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 600 invoked by uid 0); 21 Jun 2012 23:03:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy7.bluehost.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2012 23:03:18 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=NuTeqob8wStMUuKvtLyF9teqGAzCQmd7rBtZ5HY05Bc=; b=jdGiGtmXRXqPL3GB0YWTqpxaXgX8QeExDNeFZgr00LDHU3y0AZLCmTQaJ+h04E5GAwWiMyzPnwe5OAQZwQPiMsy1CBC1DtIYhJgZfZgx9zUSfEzKLoWpHT1cTB3YwVHr; Received: from [63.253.113.170] (port=41593 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShqPG-0008NC-8w for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:03:18 -0600 Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:03:02 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120621230302.GB575@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <26.30.12873.06EE2EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <26.30.12873.06EE2EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 63.253.113.170 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:03:19 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 05:50:24AM -0400, Thomas Mueller wrote: > Snippet from Wojciech Puchar : > > > > I successfully predicted the fall of linux (in quality point of view) > > years ago, then netbsd - after this and my prediction were good. > > > > Now i predict FreeBSD will fall within 2015 time frame. > > What i mean fall - that it would be better to use older version as long as > > possible because newer are worse. > > > > For now > > > > - FreeBSD 6 was an improvement > > - FreeBSD 7 was an improvement, except first releases but that's normal > > - FreeBSD 8 was a big improvement in performance and quality. > > > > FreeBSD 9 as for now: > > > > - have similar performance at most > > - have some improvement and important functionality like TRIM support. > > - have some useful functionality like softdep journalling, but risky. > > Still - forcing full check reveals some inconsistencies now and then. > > > > FreeBSD 10 will unlikely be better, but for sure slower unless you will > > force gcc build that MAYBE will work. possibly not. > > > My experience with NetBSD suggests you may be right there, but Linux? > > I'll have to build a new Linux installation and see for myself! > > I'm still inclined to say FreeBSD 9.0 is an improvement over 8.2; I never got to 8.3. I can definitely vouch for his estimate of the quality of Linux-based OSes, at least in the majority of cases. I primarily used Debian for a while, then went through a transitional period where I gradually phased out Debian, until about half a dozen years was spent entirely Linux-free (apart from the Linux kernel on a couple of embedded consumer devices), during which time I used FreeBSD for everything. Over the course of the last -- well, more than a year, less than 1.5 years -- I have been "forced" to use a Linux-based system again to get halfway decent graphics support on a laptop I bought without checking hardware compatibility carefully enough. In the meantime, however, I have provided some support for other people using Linux-based systems. During that time, I had occasion to see a Slackware installer hose an entire system (luckily with backups) that was initially intended to be set up as a multi-boot with FreeBSD and MS Windows; Ubuntu get cursed at great length with words like "If I wanted to deal with this crap, I'd use Windows!"; and similar issues crop up. Even so, installing Debian on my new laptop early last year (and trying to install Arch Linux on it -- which didn't hose anything up, but did fail to detect the free space on the hard drive, and thus failed to install, before I decided it was easier to skip Arch) and using it since then on a regular basis has been an eye-opener. Myriad little stupidities have crept into the system, including such wonders of engineering brilliance as some documentation to the effect that basic system network management tools were no longer guaranteed to work. I have some pretty strong opinions about the way things are getting broken in the Linux world, and some of the reasons this sort of problem is growing, but they're increasingly off-topic for this venue. Suffice to say that I could write a short book about the subject, and still leave a lot of problems unaddressed. Anyway, switching from GCC to Clang has essentially nothing to do with the kinds of problems we increasingly see in the Linux world. In fact, one of the biggest problems in the Linux world is the fact that GNU projects have a tendency to degrade in quality over time and pretty thoroughly undermine the Unix philosophy in egregious ways, which means that the sooner we can divest ourselves of GNU tools (including GCC) the better off we will probably be (though I would still advocate a measured approach to replacing GNU tools, rather than a headlong rush without any forethought). -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 23:08:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09197106566C for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:08:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy8-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy8.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C15D48FC08 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:08:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 21012 invoked by uid 0); 21 Jun 2012 23:08:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy8.bluehost.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2012 23:08:53 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=xi6yIRt8GScw1DObHBMC1qOfRohMl1DFiwkgZiFXqu0=; b=TC6NrTDqBCayIgzYckMw5kDjRwldYo/pyYeHGdBBzLMkpxRW1onD2BeRQiPIHfztQ7sccC5apxb23+U/VKk/Xcc/jGVDtjfVoNelycp9TBPWLSaChpyDyTP9gMv41BzQ; Received: from [63.253.113.170] (port=41600 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShqUe-0005Qd-UP for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:08:53 -0600 Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:08:37 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120621230530.GC575@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 63.253.113.170 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:08:54 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 06:11:46AM -0400, Thomas Mueller wrote: > Snippet from Antonio Olivares : > > > > I have some friends that develop software. They had released it under > > GNU umbrella. Later on, other folks were taking advantage and not > > giving back as the license requires. There was little to no way to > > enforce the license, he decided to move to other license that > > protects his work and let others use it was well with little to no > > strings attached. He know uses the CDDL which is also an Open Source > > License. He can give you many reasons as to why the GPLv3 is the > > wrong way to go. I can ask him for these and other reasons at your > > request. > > Yes, that would be a good idea, not so much for me as for others who > want to better understand the licensing issues of GCC compared to > Clang. > > That would help explain why FreeBSD is switching to Clang. Related (perhaps somewhat indirectly): Advancement Through License Simplicity http://univacc.net/?page=license_simplicity -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 21 23:31:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A678106564A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:31:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dmtilbrook@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28DC68FC1A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:31:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so1289385yen.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:31:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ARLRolDG2nEqRTID3N8SKYi1SgbCRMMI2JE10vvPcJk=; b=z9NDGPUHqtViS+sglRFVCXB8X5y2NTeP3wmkZINUIc2X9zECxpYJmmwxBtvuSoceyv apP+2VcpZ6bABePR7Ye7mmCWdVPiUwtomnjD5HPhPBRwMVkRz7XVBt2C6ftzxTt+NGTx vvuOP+qRSW7O5JN5Zn5oO6H2YpxKKSpmS4Iin1Qgml4DazUcbc0Qjxohf8USkJNmBOZV NF1OXO+kjKOSMgNRIM6cMRrDU66OButc5NEfytcZtJQAt458s4gkY2U/0DN2dEsbkYRe 1JKTDPVuksdCfb9zMD2EjIVYhi13f7xHWdb80x4Vzrz9k0aWxojGS/kaIqmnxqlPVz7Z 8vXQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.119.6 with SMTP id kq6mr11146671obb.42.1340321495427; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.133.2 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:31:35 -0400 Message-ID: From: David Tilbrook To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: xrandr cropping my window X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:31:36 -0000 Preamble: % cvt 1600 1280 # 1600x1280 59.92 Hz (CVT 2.05M4) hsync: 79.51 kHz; pclk: 171.75 MHz Modeline "1600x1280_60.00" 171.75 1600 1712 1880 2160 1280 1283 1290 1327 -hsync +vsync Running the following: xrandr --auto xrandr --newmode "1600x1280_60.00" 171.75 1600 1712 1880 2160 1280 1283 1290 1327 -hsync +vsync xrandr --addmode VGA1 "1600x1280_60.00" xrandr --output VGA1 --mode "1600x1280_60.00" yields: Default gamma for IRGB image is 2.20 Compressing colormap ...no improvment [sic] Clipping image...(Adding border)...done Building XImage...done It does accomplish most of what I want, but indeed added a black border at the top of the display. The root window has geometry 1600x1280+0+0, however the area that's visible on the display is approximately 1520x1200. This means that when maximizing a window, the bottom and left edges are not displayed. Are there adjustments I can make to get my full screen? -- david From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 00:21:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2040D1065670 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:21:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE2AF8FC14 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:21:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5M0LLBC074816; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:21:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5M0LKa5074813; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:21:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:21:20 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: David Tilbrook In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:21:21 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: xrandr cropping my window X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:21:22 -0000 On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, David Tilbrook wrote: > Preamble: > > % cvt 1600 1280 > # 1600x1280 59.92 Hz (CVT 2.05M4) hsync: 79.51 kHz; pclk: 171.75 MHz > Modeline "1600x1280_60.00" 171.75 1600 1712 1880 2160 1280 1283 > 1290 1327 -hsync +vsync > > Running the following: > > xrandr --auto > xrandr --newmode "1600x1280_60.00" 171.75 1600 1712 1880 2160 1280 > 1283 1290 1327 -hsync +vsync > xrandr --addmode VGA1 "1600x1280_60.00" > xrandr --output VGA1 --mode "1600x1280_60.00" > yields: > > Default gamma for IRGB image is 2.20 > Compressing colormap ...no improvment [sic] > Clipping image...(Adding border)...done > Building XImage...done > > It does accomplish most of what I want, but indeed added a black border > at the top of the display. > > The root window has geometry 1600x1280+0+0, however the area > that's visible on the display is approximately 1520x1200. > > This means that when maximizing a window, the bottom and left edges > are not displayed. > > Are there adjustments I can make to get my full screen? Unless you have a very old or defective monitor, it will report the modes it can display. xrandr should pick those up; run it without options to display known modes. Select one of those existing modes rather than creating a new one that the monitor may not be able to display. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 02:01:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E91D8106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 02:01:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from proace@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7FD38FC0A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 02:01:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so1400785yen.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:01:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=TyMASwB7aTCVsPmqr7p6K/I+JxnrBSOHiordon54uxY=; b=t7iUJyePSnUfBDH1ye2Fil0lSgYGmk+ph3noM7fOXJQgBis1aiKDDyxaeIvXAAnpXA qwtX730uQrvT5kMeW4EpJXncb/M+DwlPvAr+E+RwtcIdX0eSVpixgAlGelZuOhs98f4M 8FJ1HhNo8p37ZwKEk1FGkRqDPAknW/27gpojGCbsf7qjxOZKeDmIY2VxcMgqB+sq8snZ WjJje5ChL/dfH9vNa1dehO0634r7XBKaGQi/QSJ5mkf3/mA/Qg/40o9SzXbuTsobX86Y 8kuNI/CQIpnQZJcCuFYNiR+w8icH1OwEtJ4vVfQVRZ2jw3AwS/SXPSILyeuekMHUqhDF CerA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.165.74 with SMTP id d50mr326374yhl.118.1340330516244; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.147.78.20 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:01:56 +0800 Message-ID: From: ProAce To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: something wrong of ifconfig bridge0 addr - mac address appears on wrong interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 02:01:57 -0000 ( untrust ) --- ( em0 , bridge0 , em1 ) --- ( trust ) Sometimes , I cannot connect to trust server from untrust. I log some information from ifconfig bridge0 addr. It seems some thing wrong of trust server's mac appear on em0. trust serv1's mac: 00:50:56:af:2e:43 trust serv2's mac: 00:50:56:af:75:63 STEP1: The serv2 is not shown in bridge addr. table tp-fw [~] -root- ifconfig bridge0 addr 00:50:56:af:2e:43 Vlan1 em1 1200 flags=0<> 64:9e:f3:06:52:03 Vlan1 em0 1192 flags=0<> 70:ca:9b:e3:a5:83 Vlan1 em0 1192 flags=0<> 70:ca:9b:e3:a5:c3 Vlan1 em0 1200 flags=0<> STEP2: I ping the serv2's ip from untrust , and I got 100% packet loss. STEP3: show bridge addr. table again tp-fw [~] -root- ifconfig bridge0 addr 00:50:56:af:75:63 Vlan1 em0 1198 flags=0<> 00:50:56:af:2e:43 Vlan1 em1 1200 flags=0<> 64:9e:f3:06:52:03 Vlan1 em0 1150 flags=0<> 70:ca:9b:e3:a5:83 Vlan1 em0 1150 flags=0<> 70:ca:9b:e3:a5:c3 Vlan1 em0 1200 flags=0<> OMG! It's wrong of the 00:50:56:af:75:63 is shown with em0 interface. STEP4: I ping the serv2's ip from tp-fw , and I got icmp reply. STEP5: show bridge addr. table again tp-fw [~] -root- ifconfig bridge0 addr 00:50:56:af:75:63 Vlan1 em1 1197 flags=0<> 00:50:56:af:2e:43 Vlan1 em1 1199 flags=0<> 64:9e:f3:06:52:03 Vlan1 em0 1170 flags=0<> 70:ca:9b:e3:a5:83 Vlan1 em0 1170 flags=0<> 70:ca:9b:e3:a5:c3 Vlan1 em0 1200 flags=0<> The 00:50:56:af:75:63 is shown with em1 interface correctly. Why does STEP2 cause the wrong bridge addr table? How to solve it? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 03:40:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09DB6106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 03:40:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bah@bananmonarki.se) Received: from feeder.usenet4all.se (1-1-1-38a.far.sth.bostream.se [82.182.32.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D27D8FC12 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 03:40:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kw.news4all.se (c80-217-70-175.bredband.comhem.se [80.217.70.175]) by feeder.usenet4all.se (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5M3dvLk078057; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 05:39:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from bah@bananmonarki.se) Message-ID: <4FE3E8B0.9080806@bananmonarki.se> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 05:38:24 +0200 From: Bernt Hansson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120611 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Felder References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 03:40:07 -0000 2012-06-21 19:33, Mark Felder skrev: > On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:30:40 -0500, Wojciech Puchar > wrote: > >> z> wrote: >>> >>>> programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. >>> >>> This has not been decided in court yet. >> >> >> sources please! > > Google "GPLv3 court case". There are no applicable results. Until a > Judge decides what the license truly means everyone using it is at risk. > > As you've already been told it's not English it's Law "I fought the law, and the law won" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Fought_the_Law This whole thread has gone wayward, and I don't think it's going anywhere, except down. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 04:19:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EEDA1065670 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:19:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bah@bananmonarki.se) Received: from feeder.usenet4all.se (1-1-1-38a.far.sth.bostream.se [82.182.32.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 054278FC0C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:19:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kw.news4all.se (c80-217-70-175.bredband.comhem.se [80.217.70.175]) by feeder.usenet4all.se (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5M4JXKR079210; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:19:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from bah@bananmonarki.se) Message-ID: <4FE3F1F9.90808@bananmonarki.se> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:18:01 +0200 From: Bernt Hansson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120611 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fred.morcos@gmail.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Flaming mailing lists (was Re: Why Clang) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:19:41 -0000 2012-06-21 10:59, fred.morcos@gmail.com skrev: > we have feelings too!!! Ouch! Another "feeling" person. Can't you just stop this feeling stuff. /sarcasm off From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 04:27:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D6B51065673 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:27:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy1-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy1.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EF2408FC0C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:27:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 2765 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jun 2012 04:27:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2012 04:27:04 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=Iq9DOiFHXMysQbortfmfPrr1LuJir7xeZa7C28YMxzU=; b=RG53GPNqEar1C0mVEGSlFOP8ltKLwh/lffpWXDC/d8MMw2z0vz1zBVW/qc3bEZmuQu8hJer+3nvekXenjCyscj8BQfcrJr3fbB12Pt706g4v705XsDaEql/kV+sdZ059; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=60983 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShvSa-0002iw-6K for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:27:04 -0600 Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:27:03 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120622042703.GB24912@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:27:05 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:40:11AM +0200, Michel Talon wrote: > Le 21 juin 2012 ŕ 03:52, kpneal@pobox.com a écrit : > > > > > > All of this may seem stupid to a reasonable person outside of law. I'll agree > > that it probably does look stupid. But it is also the reality of the legal > > systems we must live with today. > > I can only praise kpneal for this very well argumented post. However > some remarks. The whole argument revolves around FUD, fear, > uncertainty and doubt. But there will never be any shortage of lawyers > trying to spread FUD on any subject to please their clients, and if > companies "bend over" instead of fighting FUD they will promptly be > paralyzed. It was actually a fairly sober assessment of legal conditions, especially in light of the rather unreasonable expenses often attendant to legal battles. In any case, it pays to play things safe when your options are: * Take the idiots on, head-on, over their copyleft licensing zeal, and see if you get sued. * Play it safe by using a compiler built on a better architecture that provides better development features, more correct output, and other advantages, with a copyfree license instead of a copyleft license. > > Last time a company tried to use such tactic against Linux, it did not > turn out a bright idea. Second, FreeBSD is not a commercial company, > and while this argument may have a merit for commercial sponsors of > FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD itself. I disagree with the assessment by others that FreeBSD is in some way effectively a subsidiary of its corporate users, but it does have corporate users, as well as non-corporate users. Just as it must reasonably see to the needs of the individuals who use it, so must it also reasonably see to the needs of those corporate users, especially when some of those corporate users' employees are key developers for the base system (to the significant benefit of the rest of us). Thus, saying that a particular set of conditions having an impact on commercial sponsors of FreeBSD has "zero bearing on FreeBSD itself" is just . . . incorrect. > > If FreeBSD appears as a subsidiary of some commercial company (say > Juniper) i am not sure this will be good for its further development. > This being said, i agree with you that the FreeBSD binaries will not > see a big performance degradation through the use of clang, so, as long > as gcc is in the ports to be used with performance critical stuff, it > is no big deal. Anyways as a long time FreeBSD user i have seen clang > presented as an experiment by two or three people, and then suddenly > stuffed without any discussion in the base system, apparently for > political reasons that i don't share (i mean this stupid obsession of > "GPL free" system, which has replaced the previous focus on quality and > performance). How much were you around in the mailing lists and other relevant venues for discussion of changes to the base system? You are presumably aware this list doesn't really count, being a general-questions list that is not exactly the official place to discuss things like base system choices of library and userland development (for instance), or even ports system development. It's possible all you saw of the discussion was the parts that "escaped into the wild", as it were; the more in-depth discussion of the matter surely happened elsewhere. This might give you a mistaken impression that there was not much discussion of the matter. . . . and thanks for calling the concerns of everyone who wants to be able to use FreeBSD as the basis of other projects without having to deal with problematic licensing restrictions as "stupid" and "obsessed". That's not very nice (or accurate). -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 04:42:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 340301065670 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:42:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy9.bluehost.com (oproxy9.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E571A8FC14 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:42:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 3624 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jun 2012 04:42:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy9.bluehost.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2012 04:42:13 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=j98c2Z8l2V/p8rR2DxKxVqGQszQcn4PvduvrOXyGq7Y=; b=NufNQh0i6283qyPGTTsJgMh6G6xO41b8g5ROLmHlYikRcCyHc83tLzVrH13nvXRxQ/ZR6CZvWC+D7gX1tKw+1AwVvszwqvz7bFln/zVF+AXOEtr7xWxxY/It93A+FrXU; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=61197 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShvhE-0007QN-VZ for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:42:13 -0600 Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:42:12 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120622044212.GC24912@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:42:14 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 01:06:12PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >for commercial sponsors of FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD itself. If FreeBSD appears > >as a subsidiary of some commercial company (say Juniper) i am not sure this will be good > > I think any project that size is actually a subsidiary and must be. > > I just don't like that it isn't stated openly! It is nothing wrong, > unless one can feed using zero point energy, everyone needs money to > stay alive. > > Wouldn't it be smarter to openly say "Juniper request as to get rid > o GPL as soon as we can because they are fed up with this shit and > law mess." instead of personal attacks, messing with my (and others) > sentences and posting evident lies just to "explain" the decision. > > It is a difference between honest people and fools. > > i already proposed (but not publically) to turn FreeBSD into > commercial system. > > REALLY i would not see a problem to pay say 100$ per server licence. I would see a problem with that -- not because I don't think FreeBSD is worth it. I do, and I think it is worth more than that, in fact. The biggest problem with what you propose, though, is that it would destroy the social factors in development of the FreeBSD system that make it what it is, and thus destroy FreeBSD itself, as far as I am concerned. Eliminating the copyfree licensed, open source development model of FreeBSD would undermine the majority of the technical benefits supported by that development model. I would have thought that even you should be able to understand that without help. > > There is nothing to prevent giving source with system. Non-Free > software doesn't have to be binary only. Read-only source, or even modifiable but non-distributable source, does not provide the social benefits of an open source development model that encourage the kind of participation FreeBSD needs to remain FreeBSD, rather than becoming Oracle Solaris or MS Windows Server 2010: Race Condition Odyssey. > > For paying this i would like FreeBSD to be maintained with quality > and performance being the only reason, not politics. Turning it into a commercial enterprise rather than an open source project would probably turn it into a project that is driven about 60% by corporate politics and 40% by marketing BS, with no room left over for quality except as needed to support the minimum credibility its CEO deems necessary to support those two concerns. > > Every "trendy" or otherwise requested feature could be added > separately or even charged separately, as long as it doesn't have > any effects on base system. ZFS being example. > > Nothing against Juniper (the make truly good working hardware), but > if they enforce decision because of their personal likes then it > must be stopped. You seem to think this is all about Juniper. I wonder where you get that idea. Why didn't you pluck iXsystems out of thin air as your whipping boy, or Yahoo, or some other corporate user? > > GPLv3 based C compiler does not prevent making closed source > software like JunOS for example. In most cases, this may be true, *if* the license exceptions apply as described if/when tested in court. There are some cases where even the optimistic explanation of the license exceptions particular to GCC mentions that the GPLv3 might apply to generated code. > > It is only "i hate GNU" type decision. No, it's not only that. It's *also* that, and with good reason. Good job ignoring a whole lot of information people have tried to bring to your attention, including lengthy messages from me to which you have not substantively responded. Are you unable, or simply unwilling, to have an honest discussion on the matter? Ironically, your possibly dishonest intention in this matter occurs even as you pretend that potentially mistaken statements by one or two people make *everyone* into malevolent liars who deserve your ire and insults. > > I hate too, and in spite of this am against removing gcc and > replacing it with much worse product. "Worse" based on a couple of very narrowly applicable metrics derived from specific, very particular use case conditions, whose measures are of negligible scale for most purposes, ignoring a shit-ton of additional information about why Clang is better based on information that you have not only admitted not knowing about but proclaimed you have no interest in learning. You *refuse* to educate yourself about some of the subject matter that pertains to other benefits, then proclaim everyone else at fault for the fact you cannot see past your nose to note that the whole world does not revolve around some dubious benchmarks. I doubt you're convincing anyone of anything you seem to think we should all accept as gospel. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 04:47:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7AEF1065672 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:47:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy1-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy1.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 653928FC14 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:47:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 9511 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jun 2012 04:47:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2012 04:47:50 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=J713U2u4FX1OFSZGjb0WU7xmy/jeGXVPwBpDcM9HUQg=; b=LEPM9xmUT3YyvwUMFLraDY4uG3bWcvecWDR2mf6hn+sroUXeRHCDCS06gct8Nby1OE17L2tiVDNOCm8DZL/6vaHGJEjZsNgTFfdDmljScDgGwLTb9DHxe9h3Z1Z7kU03; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=61386 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Shvmf-0004pP-Oe for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:47:49 -0600 Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:47:48 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120622044748.GD24912@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35745.9060601@fisglobal.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:47:50 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 07:30:23PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >Because there's no reason to do that. It's an asinine suggestion. > > > >Clang is here to stay. Most of us are happy about that decision. GCC > > Because most that are not already stopped and ignored thing. and use GCC. > > Politics won. Development benefits are not "politics". Easier distribution is not "politics". More responsive upstream developers are not "politics". You ignoring all of these points and more that have been brought up, some by me, *is* evidently "politics" -- because you are seeking a political capitulation to your willfully ignorant demands. Politics *lose*, so far, and for that I am grateful. . . . but if it makes you feel better to whisper to yourself that all opposition to your position (even when you ignore it and have not bothered to actually read and understand it) is just "politics", go ahead, as long as it doesn't perpetuate this wholly unnecessary griping on the mailing list. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 04:50:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 796D7106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:50:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E5ED8FC0A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:50:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5M4oJHx020387; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:50:20 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:50:18 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <4FE3F1F9.90808@bananmonarki.se> In-Reply-To: <4FE3F1F9.90808@bananmonarki.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206221150.18073.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: fred.morcos@gmail.com, Bernt Hansson Subject: Re: Flaming mailing lists (was Re: Why Clang) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:50:29 -0000 Hi, On Friday 22 June 2012 11:18:01 Bernt Hansson wrote: > 2012-06-21 10:59, fred.morcos@gmail.com skrev: > > we have feelings too!!! > > Ouch! Another "feeling" person. Can't you just stop this feeling stuff. > do not forget the feelings regarding the devil. Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 05:06:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBAE3106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 05:06:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bah@bananmonarki.se) Received: from feeder.usenet4all.se (1-1-1-38a.far.sth.bostream.se [82.182.32.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5750D8FC12 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 05:06:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kw.news4all.se (c80-217-70-175.bredband.comhem.se [80.217.70.175]) by feeder.usenet4all.se (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5M5683s080497; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:06:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from bah@bananmonarki.se) Message-ID: <4FE3FCE3.3010202@bananmonarki.se> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:04:35 +0200 From: Bernt Hansson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120611 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erich Dollansky References: <4FE3F1F9.90808@bananmonarki.se> <201206221150.18073.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> In-Reply-To: <201206221150.18073.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, fred.morcos@gmail.com Subject: Re: Flaming mailing lists (was Re: Why Clang) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 05:06:16 -0000 2012-06-22 06:50, Erich Dollansky skrev: > Hi, > > On Friday 22 June 2012 11:18:01 Bernt Hansson wrote: >> 2012-06-21 10:59, fred.morcos@gmail.com skrev: >>> we have feelings too!!! >> >> Ouch! Another "feeling" person. Can't you just stop this feeling stuff. >> > do not forget the feelings regarding the devil. Aaa. Yes the "devil" That fill's my whole body with concrete. I want to whish all a very mery Midsummer's Eve and Midsummer's Day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midsummer#Sweden From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 05:43:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16CC21065670 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 05:43:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD5FF8FC16 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 05:43:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5M5hVMp030729; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:43:33 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:43:30 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <201206221150.18073.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> <4FE3FCE3.3010202@bananmonarki.se> In-Reply-To: <4FE3FCE3.3010202@bananmonarki.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206221243.31009.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: fred.morcos@gmail.com, Bernt Hansson Subject: Re: Flaming mailing lists (was Re: Why Clang) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 05:43:36 -0000 Hi, On Friday 22 June 2012 12:04:35 Bernt Hansson wrote: > 2012-06-22 06:50, Erich Dollansky skrev: > > On Friday 22 June 2012 11:18:01 Bernt Hansson wrote: > >> 2012-06-21 10:59, fred.morcos@gmail.com skrev: > >>> we have feelings too!!! > >> > >> Ouch! Another "feeling" person. Can't you just stop this feeling stuff. > > > > do not forget the feelings regarding the devil. > > Aaa. Yes the "devil" That fill's my whole body with concrete. > yes, this is the guy. You can consider yourself lucky that he uses only concrete. Bad guys like me get liquid steel. > I want to whish all a very mery Midsummer's Eve and Midsummer's Day Oh yeah, you celebrate this only on the following weekend. Enjoy! Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 06:01:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8441106564A; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:01:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de) Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DCC58FC0C; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:01:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1ShwwC-00089Z-TX>; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:01:45 +0200 Received: from e178015105.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.15.105] helo=thor.walstatt.dyndns.org) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1ShwwC-0000Rf-NC>; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:01:44 +0200 Message-ID: <4FE40A42.6010503@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:01:38 +0200 From: "O. Hartmann" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120619 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Current FreeBSD , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig912A15704D9D7886A891DA49" X-Originating-IP: 85.178.15.105 Cc: Subject: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:01:52 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig912A15704D9D7886A891DA49 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a USB drive/stick, Lexar USB Flash drive as reported by FreeBSD shown below. When first used, I was able to put approx. 30 GB of data on it - it was visible to FreeBSD 9 and 10 as expected. A Linux system at the lab was also capable of recognizing it. After that, I tried to operate on the stick on a Notebook, FreeBSD 9, and another station, FreeBSD 10. But FreeBSD didn't recognize the USB drive anymore - sometimes, but this seems to be a gambling issue :-( Trying Linux on different hardware platforms and even those machines prior not recognizing the USB drive do recognize the drive as Lexar USB Flash drive with 64GB. That is Suse Linux (some 12.XX), that is Ubuntu 12.04, that is Windows 7 Pro/x64. I can format the drive, I can push and pull data from it. So, since the USB drive won't work with three different FreeBSD boxes (one running 9-STABLE, two 10-CURRENT, all systems most recent sources and buildworld from a day ago). I suspect either a weird configuration issue I use on all platforms in questions in common triggering the weird beviour - or FreeBSD is simply incapable of handling the 64GB drive. I do not have issues with USB drives with capacities of 32, 8 or 4 GB of different brands. As shown in the portion of the dmesg below, the USB drive is recognized physically. It doesn't matter whether USB port I use (I tried all available on all boxes and in most cases I use a Dell UltraSharp powered in-screen HUB). Since other OSes handle the drive as expected, I exclude hardware issues. All FreeBSD in common is the fact I use the new device ahaci/device ata CAM/ATA scheme with devcie scbus in the kernel (I use custom kernels!). Apart from trying a GENERIC kernel (which is next I will do this weekend), does anyone have similar experiences and probably solutions? Regards, oh ugen7.6: at usbus7 umass1: on usb= us7 (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an erro= r (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an erro= r (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an erro= r (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an erro= r (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an erro= r (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Error 5, Retries exhausted --------------enig912A15704D9D7886A891DA49 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJP5ApIAAoJEOgBcD7A/5N8Lt0H/RPOjxk/9iX6pCWghqucDfsv U1hjBs6iBCLmWZILAW++ldCdSZifum/YZ10QD4kbJfJGO8Damn+p5MK54gOTs06N QCOX4P/720luXPIiqwtNnSQcrjmzi73EKV5Avdj79Woii3CTaE014fE/Ayq7TQfZ sS1G39VBS517RgCshdOzzmvt13+QFme1KBKIKezeNhX4A5MXQ10Uk3qgtbOhyuv9 7wugQNotlQURihausOgQAqseEaWHaSqNqS+j4XbXqKtnPU8QJIGugPeaMkzFmtvq +fU4ACc64hPCxpFmWRRohLi+R615lsJWvi6WWAkSBPGgmTSima/Ub/ucWQAS44Q= =/eA4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig912A15704D9D7886A891DA49-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 06:17:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C81E106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:17:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2FDA8FC08 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:17:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5M6HFp4026533; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:17:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5M6HETB026530; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:17:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:17:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: kpneal@pobox.com In-Reply-To: <20120622022000.GE25628@neutralgood.org> Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <4FE32FF5.60603@ulb.ac.be> <20120622022000.GE25628@neutralgood.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:17:15 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Julien Cigar , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:17:26 -0000 > > This is a valid argument. Checksumming is used to detect cases where the > disk or the disk controller return invalid data to the CPU. This can happen > for any number of reasons and isn't that unlikely. "Unrecoverable read > error" probabilities are high enough with common drives that you can > reasonably see them after reading 10-20TB over the course of some small > number of years. And that's assuming no firmware bugs, no flakey cables, > and no other of a variety of potential issues. > this needs scrubbing. Can be done both with ZFS and anything else. just use dd periodically. > I use ZFS. I like ZFS. But I also acknowledge that a zfs_fsck would be > useful in cases where a filesystem is botched enough that it can't be but seems you don't have any serious use for ZFS if you can take that risk just because you "like" ZFS. I cannot. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 06:22:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F9971065670; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:22:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 365CB8FC08; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:22:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so1918363obb.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:22:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=ndp7S7YEhzRBGhcY5zJ/U4YtAD2DoD4oMJGOQdWplU0=; b=CMGJgpHe8Mc9gqoZvBXUoofqxYx4YM5Tx1Mj5XYY6SWbw4mk8JJMdPltYHq7TZ5OgT kP6mkrF/LY4SpxBeUf202zfN2XOaZV7xrIrbn5YBQFiHP+hlhmXLljG5aVzeEsdL5vOy QFcq4NQ8pXTeEUsIQU5OfDIrF11DvQNvJQYGXJJCmHCmwtyHjj0k0jXTdwmvDOLGZa5s /GR/nwno5OiZx7xPZyTiUq46l2itEe/E+C0Bl6SE1rOQrD80CaK5gPA3oz184Dzb9Ufl ys4Vd9z/JGo9CTOy4vJLDnfFWVX06K5HNl9s2pX7O+e1IXY8SlKC7kpwXpLBlCtK0K3A Yv4w== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.172.209 with SMTP id be17mr676400oec.16.1340346150601; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.13.198 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:22:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FE40A42.6010503@zedat.fu-berlin.de> References: <4FE40A42.6010503@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:22:30 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: "O. Hartmann" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Current FreeBSD , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:22:36 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 11:01 PM, O. Hartmann wrote: > I have a USB drive/stick, Lexar USB Flash drive as reported by FreeBSD > shown below. > When first used, I was able to put approx. 30 GB of data on it - it was > visible to FreeBSD 9 and 10 as expected. > A Linux system at the lab was also capable of recognizing it. After > that, I tried to operate on the stick on a Notebook, FreeBSD 9, and > another station, FreeBSD 10. But FreeBSD didn't recognize the USB drive > anymore - sometimes, but this seems to be a gambling issue :-( > > Trying Linux on different hardware platforms and even those machines > prior not recognizing the USB drive do recognize the drive as Lexar USB > Flash drive with 64GB. That is Suse Linux (some 12.XX), that is Ubuntu > 12.04, that is Windows 7 Pro/x64. I can format the drive, I can push and > pull data from it. > > So, since the USB drive won't work with three different FreeBSD boxes > (one running 9-STABLE, two 10-CURRENT, all systems most recent sources > and buildworld from a day ago). > I suspect either a weird configuration issue I use on all platforms in > questions in common triggering the weird beviour - or FreeBSD is simply > incapable of handling the 64GB drive. I do not have issues with USB > drives with capacities of 32, 8 or 4 GB of different brands. > > As shown in the portion of the dmesg below, the USB drive is recognized > physically. It doesn't matter whether USB port I use (I tried all > available on all boxes and in most cases I use a Dell UltraSharp powered > in-screen HUB). Since other OSes handle the drive as expected, I exclude > hardware issues. > > All FreeBSD in common is the fact I use the new device ahaci/device ata > CAM/ATA scheme with devcie scbus in the kernel (I use custom kernels!). > > Apart from trying a GENERIC kernel (which is next I will do this > weekend), does anyone have similar experiences and probably solutions? I don't personally have any relevant experience with this device, but having the exact revisions of code where this was working and where it was failing would be helpful, in order to perform a binary search to determine whether or not this is a regression. Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 06:22:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FE9B106572E for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:22:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6D0E8FC12 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:22:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5M6MhYw026559; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:22:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5M6Mg1H026556; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:22:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:22:42 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: kpneal@pobox.com In-Reply-To: <20120622024012.GF25628@neutralgood.org> Message-ID: References: <20120622024012.GF25628@neutralgood.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:22:43 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Matthias Gamsjager , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:22:45 -0000 > OK, if you have 24 2-way mirrors and two drives in the same mirror fail > then with UFS you lose the contents of that mirror. Other filesystems in > the same box are fine. Restores from backups are going to be easy since > the backups are probably arranged to be per-filesystem. true. i actually don't have 48-disk machine but do have 9 disks (one SSD+8 2TB SATA). > So far I think we're in agreement. Still as i said - even with ZFS i would make 24 pools, not one. this thing is not filesystem dependent. > > But this doesn't address two issues: > > 1) There are other arrangements of ZFS that can tolerate more failed > disks if you are willing to spend more money. ZFS supports n-way > mirrors, so you can have mirrors with three or four disks if you as well as gmirror. > a raidz2 set (with multiple raidz2 sets per pool). i will not use raidz1/2/3 because if catastrophically low performance. the design of ZFS makes sure you'll get read performance of single drive from whole pool. Disks are already performance limiting part of computer. > 2) That this failure can happen doesn't address the question of the > production-ready status of ZFS. > > The question of "production ready" is not a boolean. It is a question of What i meant from beginning is not that ZFS is not "yet" production ready but it will never be because of design decisions. It have "cool" features, giving danger, huge hardware usage (RAM,CPU) and low I/O performance. > risks and of money used to mitigate those risks. I suggest asking the > question on the zfs-discuss list over at opensolaris.org since there are > probably many more people there who make serious use of ZFS daily. I will not. Serious people should know how ZFS work. if they still want to use it seriuosly then i cannot help any more. > gs1p 159G 73.1G 39 12 2.34M 70.7K > mirror 159G 73.1G 39 12 2.34M 70.7K > gpt/CONST_2-9XE02KPK-zfs - - 19 5 1.94M 69.4K > gpt/SAVVIO-6XQ10F80-zfs - - 21 5 1.93M 79.5K > gpt/SAVVIO-6XQ103C7-zfs - - 21 5 1.93M 79.5K > 100GB+ of FreeBSD being served up (IP 206.196.19.100 if you care to check > FreeBSD's stats pages). And the torrents can be easily replaced if something > really bad happens. 3 very expensive drives. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 06:27:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38881106566C; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:27:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe08.c2i.net [212.247.154.226]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 602BF8FC17; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:27:46 +0000 (UTC) X-T2-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, BAYES_50 Received: from [176.74.212.201] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop015.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe08.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPA id 290061533; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:22:39 +0200 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:22:19 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/9.0-STABLE; KDE/4.7.4; amd64; ; ) References: <4FE40A42.6010503@zedat.fu-berlin.de> In-Reply-To: <4FE40A42.6010503@zedat.fu-berlin.de> X-Face: 'mmZ:T{)),Oru^0c+/}w'`gU1$ubmG?lp!=R4Wy\ELYo2)@'UZ24N@d2+AyewRX}mAm; Yp |U[@, _z/([?1bCfM{_"B<.J>mICJCHAzzGHI{y7{%JVz%R~yJHIji`y>Y}k1C4TfysrsUI -%GU9V5]iUZF&nRn9mJ'?&>O MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206220822.19486.hselasky@c2i.net> Cc: "O. Hartmann" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:27:47 -0000 On Friday 22 June 2012 08:01:38 O. Hartmann wrote: > I have a USB drive/stick, Lexar USB Flash drive as reported by FreeBSD > shown below. > When first used, I was able to put approx. 30 GB of data on it - it was > visible to FreeBSD 9 and 10 as expected. > A Linux system at the lab was also capable of recognizing it. After > that, I tried to operate on the stick on a Notebook, FreeBSD 9, and > another station, FreeBSD 10. But FreeBSD didn't recognize the USB drive > anymore - sometimes, but this seems to be a gambling issue :-( > > Trying Linux on different hardware platforms and even those machines > prior not recognizing the USB drive do recognize the drive as Lexar USB > Flash drive with 64GB. That is Suse Linux (some 12.XX), that is Ubuntu > 12.04, that is Windows 7 Pro/x64. I can format the drive, I can push and > pull data from it. > > So, since the USB drive won't work with three different FreeBSD boxes > (one running 9-STABLE, two 10-CURRENT, all systems most recent sources > and buildworld from a day ago). > I suspect either a weird configuration issue I use on all platforms in > questions in common triggering the weird beviour - or FreeBSD is simply > incapable of handling the 64GB drive. I do not have issues with USB > drives with capacities of 32, 8 or 4 GB of different brands. > > As shown in the portion of the dmesg below, the USB drive is recognized > physically. It doesn't matter whether USB port I use (I tried all > available on all boxes and in most cases I use a Dell UltraSharp powered > in-screen HUB). Since other OSes handle the drive as expected, I exclude > hardware issues. > > All FreeBSD in common is the fact I use the new device ahaci/device ata > CAM/ATA scheme with devcie scbus in the kernel (I use custom kernels!). > > Apart from trying a GENERIC kernel (which is next I will do this > weekend), does anyone have similar experiences and probably solutions? > > Regards, > oh > > ugen7.6: at usbus7 > umass1: on > usbus7 (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Error 5, Retries exhausted Hi, After plugging the device, try: usbconfig -d 7.6 add_quirk UQ_MSC_NO_INQUIRY Then re-plug it. I'm sorry to say a lot of USB flash sticks out there are broken and only tested with the timing of MS Windows. Part of the problem is that it is difficult to autodetect these issues, because once you trigger the non- supported SCSI command, then the flash key stops working like you experience. I would be more than glad to open up an office to certify USB devices for use with FreeBSD :-) --HPS From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 06:28:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C437A106566C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:28:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D7A48FC19 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:28:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5M6SHIg026576; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:28:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5M6SHk6026573; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:28:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:28:17 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chad Perrin In-Reply-To: <20120622044212.GC24912@hemlock.hydra> Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <20120622044212.GC24912@hemlock.hydra> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:28:18 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:28:25 -0000 > > I would see a problem with that -- not because I don't think FreeBSD is > worth it. I do, and I think it is worth more than that, in fact. The true. > biggest problem with what you propose, though, is that it would destroy > the social factors in development of the FreeBSD system that make it what > it is, and thus destroy FreeBSD itself, as far as I am concerned. I am not sure, as long as clients would be treated seriously! > I would have thought that even you should be able to understand that > without help. another personal attack? I though i talk with adults. >> For paying this i would like FreeBSD to be maintained with quality >> and performance being the only reason, not politics. > > Turning it into a commercial enterprise rather than an open source > project would probably turn it into a project that is driven about 60% by > corporate politics and 40% by marketing BS, with no room left over for > quality except as needed to support the minimum credibility its CEO deems > necessary to support those two concerns. It depends solely on development team. For now - as we see - it's decision are driven by money. But not all users money but few selected large users. >> must be stopped. > > You seem to think this is all about Juniper. I wonder where you get that Not JUST juniper. >> It is only "i hate GNU" type decision. > > No, it's not only that. It's *also* that, and with good reason. Good >> I hate too, and in spite of this am against removing gcc and >> replacing it with much worse product. > > "Worse" based on a couple of very narrowly applicable metrics derived There will be IMHO soon good compiler available. it's highly probable that pcc would improve a lot, for now it is small, quick but doesn't produce good code for new CPUs. But it probably will improve. CLANG is already great bloat, and will be worse. No amount of money will fix it, actually too much money will hurt. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 06:29:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB45D1065672; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:29:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58F898FC1C; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:29:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5M6TvSP026582; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:29:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5M6Tvgu026579; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:29:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:29:57 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: "O. Hartmann" In-Reply-To: <4FE40A42.6010503@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Message-ID: References: <4FE40A42.6010503@zedat.fu-berlin.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:29:58 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Current FreeBSD , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:30:00 -0000 > incapable of handling the 64GB drive. I do not have issues with USB it's not about capacity. But seems some quirks for that pendrive (which have buggy firmware) has to be added, as it doesn't respond for inquiry command. sorry i am not USB expert. > umass1: on usbus7 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Error 5, Retries exhausted > > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 06:37:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19135106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:37:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from c.kworr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 916D48FC0A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:37:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so1588585bkv.13 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:37:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3FHWahBNSmkDzj/9EPX3KWRIgSUPq6zSompB1i4IVIs=; b=DdchqKkDNat+UqxAHTAB621RaCWS2VuhTkYr7WKKhMmwTQTzahGMSVMjctHwU49SK/ JwFi917bH6w6u1WC36G+ziI1oYmPubVszg/v8A3tLPS2ZWCi4tdIvWTCCaTgODckQSdW plOxA4e0Q1GV4M6dD4Lw6+Du25A8wCLBMZBT5xktvlCl4yyZB1S5osW584kf7FEMD6T1 8vIHHvYMkbB3mWTLa/xNPc8OX8ghe5hT/9y3+e2zAmFaX0Gcyinfpt1t35G5qQifammF ph3U/3ih/MwIeEqpChLXF7wX+SGMcYq2w3Laf7NiTSbwhttkG6zjOTYxRY7/Qh8NzhBD 9yZw== Received: by 10.204.129.196 with SMTP id p4mr347020bks.28.1340347022384; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from green.tandem.local (utwig.xim.bz. [91.216.237.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e20sm34686553bkv.10.2012.06.21.23.36.57 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE41288.5020404@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:36:56 +0300 From: Volodymyr Kostyrko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120605 Firefox/12.0 SeaMonkey/2.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <201206201015.q5KAFKKj026496@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120620171112.GB23095@hemlock.hydra> In-Reply-To: <20120620171112.GB23095@hemlock.hydra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:37:09 -0000 Chad Perrin wrote: > Someone in this extended discussion mentioned that there are efforts > underway to make sure the base system will compile cleanly with both > Clang and GCC 4.2+, so I think you're just making up complaints here. > Someone (other than Wojciech Puchar, who would just be talking out of his > ass) correct me if I'm mistaken. That was me. I don't have pure facts but I read svn logs daily. Today we have a bunch of: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ r237428 | eadler | 2012-06-22 08:48:53 +0300 (пт, 22 чер 2012) | 5 lines MFC r237253: Remove variables which are initialized but never used thereafter reported by gcc46 warning Approved by: cperciva (implicit) So at least there are some people working on polishing CURRENT/STABLE up to the point it will build with gcc46. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 06:38:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A81681065792 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:38:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Received: from sola.nimnet.asn.au (paqi.nimnet.asn.au [115.70.110.159]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 041EC8FC15 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:38:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sola.nimnet.asn.au (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5M6ciIb019655; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:38:44 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:38:44 +1000 (EST) From: Ian Smith To: Modulok In-Reply-To: <20120621083945.E87771065694@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: <20120622153224.I46641@sola.nimnet.asn.au> References: <20120621083945.E87771065694@hub.freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OT: Robotics or embedded or hardware programming... what is this called? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:38:43 -0000 In freebsd-questions Digest, Vol 420, Issue 10, Message: 17 On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:54:27 -0600 Modulok wrote: > Sorry for the off-topic post. There are a lot of technically adept people on > this list, so I thought I'd try my luck here: On recent volcanic form, this scarcely measures on the OT scale :) > I want to get started programming for hardware. Motors, sensors, actuators, etc. > I have a programming background, (python, PHP, C++) but no experience with code > that drives hardware. (Motors, sensors, etc.) > > I *don't* want closed-source "kit robots" where the point is to build the robot > the book and thats it. I also don't want ladder logic-based PMC's. Some kind of > micro-controller that runs a *nix flavor (or a BSD flavor!) would be great! (If > that's what I need.) Basically, I want to do stuff like "if input1() is True > then apply_voltage_on_output3()", etc. Build my own traffic light, coffee > maker, mars rover, automatic-plant waterer, whatever. Sure. Fun and potentially profitable stuff. Wish I had a spare life .. > What do you call this? Embedded programming? Generic hardware programming? > Robotics programming? Are there prefabricated, standard embedded boards and > hardware specs that play together like PC parts do? In short, I don't even know > where to start. Try browsing from http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-embedded/ to see if that's of interest. Getting FreeBSD up on various embedded platforms is the focus there, but I've seen robotics references too. I see also, but haven't explored these (both look moderately busy): http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-arm/ http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-mips/ > Even general pointers to books/websites would be great. Once I know what it's > called I can google much more effectively ;) I think once you find a platform you're interested in, you'll google up a perhaps bewildering array of support websites and forums, with books to suit. For me it's about the processor instruction set and hardware functionality, but I gather you're looking for higher level language implementations, so you'll want to sniff and taste a few. I thought I saw something somewhere (maybe just wishful thinking) about FreeBSD on the Arduino, which normally runs a sort of embedded Linux, that could be very interesting; the hardware is cheap (kits at Jaycar stores in Australia anyway), very modular design, and there are heaps of fascinating projects. I want the quadricopter to follow me around the room at parties - at my age I need something really impressive :) On the FreeBSD side there's advanced work, I gather, on ARM and Atmel MEGA 32-bit and MIPS platforms at least. Personally I consider these 'big iron' and far prefer writing in macro assembler for little Atmel Tiny25s and such, but that's strictly "Look Ma, no OS!" programming. cheers, Ian From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 07:03:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE4E2106567A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:03:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C5908FC08 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:03:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5M73fxq026751; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:03:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5M73f10026748; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:03:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:03:41 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Volodymyr Kostyrko In-Reply-To: <4FE41288.5020404@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <201206201015.q5KAFKKj026496@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120620171112.GB23095@hemlock.hydra> <4FE41288.5020404@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:03:42 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:03:44 -0000 >> underway to make sure the base system will compile cleanly with both >> Clang and GCC 4.2+, so I think you're just making up complaints here. >> Someone (other than Wojciech Puchar, who would just be talking out of his once again personal attacks from unhappy childs. >> ass) correct me if I'm mistaken. > reported by gcc46 warning > > Approved by: cperciva (implicit) > > So at least there are some people working on polishing CURRENT/STABLE up to > the point it will build with gcc46. > sounds good. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 07:12:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D27B106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:12:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from j.mckeown@ru.ac.za) Received: from mail.ru.ac.za (mail.ru.ac.za [IPv6:2001:4200:1010:0:250:56ff:fe8d:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 408478FC16 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:12:41 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ru.ac.za; s=ru-msa; h=X-Authenticated-User:Message-Id:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=NcEVrBykz55ZPLuF7VxEMoaZCQ/ja6nHi7lvvEMh3Sg=; b=Bc6ndAuWnF6aDDp7Q6aX924mg1u+WBba/rk/Ac+Zi1svM119ZP77NX6C2weS/WzEovrwQJJzXHmWG0yJ1jGs0PCdYr7kDixtuRmOy8JWtu3MkiizqVS3FUcz5mv253Jv; Received: from vorkosigan.ru.ac.za ([2001:4200:1010:1058:219:d1ff:fe9f:a932]:55873) by mail.ru.ac.za with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Shy2n-000IUM-6p; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:12:37 +0200 From: Jonathan McKeown Organization: Rhodes University To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:12:36 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: <201206221150.18073.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> <4FE3FCE3.3010202@bananmonarki.se> In-Reply-To: <4FE3FCE3.3010202@bananmonarki.se> X-Face: $@VrUx^RHy/}yu]jKf/<4T%/d|F+$j-Ol2"2J$q+%OK1]&/G_S9(=?utf-8?q?HkaQ*=60!=3FYOK=3FY!=27M=60C=0A=09aP=5C9nVPF8Q=7DCilHH8l=3B=7E!4?= =?utf-8?q?2HK6=273lg4J=7Daz?=@1Dqqh:J]M^"YPn*2IWrZON$1+G?oX3@ =?utf-8?q?k=230=0A=0954XDRg=3DYn=5FF-etwot4U=24b?=dTS{i X-Virus-Scanned: mail.ru.ac.za (2001:4200:1010:0:250:56ff:fe8d:5) X-Authenticated-User: s0900137 from vorkosigan.ru.ac.za (2001:4200:1010:1058:219:d1ff:fe9f:a932) using auth_plaintext Cc: Bernt Hansson Subject: Re: Flaming mailing lists (was Re: Why Clang) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:12:42 -0000 On Friday 22 June 2012 07:04:35 Bernt Hansson wrote: > > > I want to whish all a very mery Midsummer's Eve and Midsummer's Day > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midsummer#Sweden I appreciate the sentiment but it's midwinter here ;) Jonathan From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 08:40:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19347106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:40:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller23@insightbb.com) Received: from mail.insightbb.com (smtp3.insight.synacor.com [208.47.185.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C19F38FC0C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:40:10 +0000 (UTC) X_CMAE_Category: 0,0 Undefined,Undefined X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=86GbDLi7NS7TegNzg0A2mmhQWIv0QOIIryOgdPqEZ2g= c=1 sm=0 a=jLN7EqiLvroA:10 a=92czzIUlAAAA:8 a=1ZKkCfeIhQMLnwnzEuYA:9 a=Q/oqmR4JO1zR3vNQamCQeQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Authentication-Results: smtp02.insight.synacor.com header.from=mueller23@insightbb.com; sender-id=softfail Authentication-Results: smtp02.insight.synacor.com smtp.mail=mueller23@insightbb.com; spf=softfail; sender-id=softfail Received-SPF: softfail (smtp02.insight.synacor.com: transitional domain insightbb.com does not designate 74.134.26.53 as permitted sender) Received: from [74.134.26.53] ([74.134.26.53:36604] helo=localhost) by mail.insightbb.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.40 r(29895/29896)) with ESMTP id CB/60-12873-46F24EF4; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:40:04 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:40:04 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Thomas Mueller" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Antonio Olivares Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:40:11 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 01:06:12PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >for commercial sponsors of FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD itself. If FreeBSD appears > >as a subsidiary of some commercial company (say Juniper) i am not sure this will be good > > I think any project that size is actually a subsidiary and must be. > > I just don't like that it isn't stated openly! It is nothing wrong, > unless one can feed using zero point energy, everyone needs money to > stay alive. > > Wouldn't it be smarter to openly say "Juniper request as to get rid > o GPL as soon as we can because they are fed up with this shit and > law mess." instead of personal attacks, messing with my (and others) > sentences and posting evident lies just to "explain" the decision. > > It is a difference between honest people and fools. > > i already proposed (but not publically) to turn FreeBSD into > commercial system. > > REALLY i would not see a problem to pay say 100$ per server licence. from Chad Perrin: > I would see a problem with that -- not because I don't think FreeBSD is > worth it. I do, and I think it is worth more than that, in fact. The > biggest problem with what you propose, though, is that it would destroy > the social factors in development of the FreeBSD system that make it what > it is, and thus destroy FreeBSD itself, as far as I am concerned. > Eliminating the copyfree licensed, open source development model of > FreeBSD would undermine the majority of the technical benefits supported > by that development model. > I would have thought that even you should be able to understand that > without help. (snip) Turning FreeBSD into a commercial system would turn a lot of users to other BSD or Linux, myself included. I ran IBM OS/2 from 1.3 to (Warp) 4 until a disk crash in April 2001, after which I was never again able to boot any OS/2, and I sure tried. Closed source was one severe drawback, why I certainly prefer either Linux or FreeBSD. Actually there is a continuation/successor to OS/2, namely eComStation (www.ecomstation.com) but no way would I go that way! Either Linux or FreeBSD is far ahead now! There actually is/was a closed-source BSD (BSDI), and there is Mac OS X, with BSD under the covers. Tom From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 08:44:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2431D106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:44:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayasaman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF4B28FC08 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:44:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so2201439dad.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 01:44:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=I7W1lQ4ygHpyrLVqzlpcg0JLHlxWHKYZbuvz0BHP3C8=; b=jGZzP+XBuzdm0Y/B3p6y2ks0N0LHpuau8CwaUp39IqO5u4P0z/BkABPc/biMEh1JCC I20CnA+yf3p+qE46Fs2hSDOPgzLbTL+SQHx1ebLIIYHP8BAZ2bWXgTRDvjZsm4jWwmlz 6k1ckyVVFj6A8pU1waEQ8iLwqN32Yxdo6YuLeVqEk6bw3/CradFcBUhuyHB40kwmo0JS HJlBonJqJaDYo5scQIXDBNzZAkVFDMYV5nh9OYFC8WCHDUZsbjLRIsH5OJULugDFmd3v Y67BIvGQgnsEpZtLon20+/FgHbyJo+MfaZHxhTy0FsuRhkIDhw7hr3WLOF0nVQTocRWi +55g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.228.39 with SMTP id sf7mr8137305pbc.45.1340354667545; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 01:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.79.13 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 01:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:44:27 +0100 Message-ID: From: Kaya Saman To: freebsd-questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Could someone help me with Dovecot AD integration PAM setup? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:44:28 -0000 Hi, I'm trying to authenticate Dovecot to Active Directory using the SAMBA/Winbind method and so far my setup seems that everything is working apart from the Dovecot authentication which I believe I have traced to PAM. I can login using an AD account using: wbinfo -K # wbinfo -K Enter 's password: plaintext kerberos password authentication for [] succeeded (requesting cctype: FILE) This is the current Dovecot config: # cat dovecot.conf # v1.1: #auth_ntlm_use_winbind = yes # v1.2+: auth_use_winbind = yes auth_winbind_helper_path = /usr/local/bin/ntlm_auth protocols = imap # It's nice to have separate log files for Dovecot. You could do this # by changing syslog configuration also, but this is easier. log_path = /var/log/dovecot.log info_log_path = /var/log/dovecot-info.log # Disable SSL for now. ssl = no disable_plaintext_auth = no # We're using Maildir format #mail_location = maildir:~/Maildir mail_location = mbox:/mail:INBOX=/mail/%u # If you're using POP3, you'll need this: #pop3_uidl_format = %g # Authentication configuration: auth_verbose = yes auth_debug = yes auth_username_format = %n auth_mechanisms = plain ntlm login userdb { driver = static args = uid=501 gid=501 home=/mail/%u driver = static } passdb { driver = pam } Here is a "test" login attempt: # telnet localhost 143 Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost. Escape character is '^]'. * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 LITERAL+ SASL-IR LOGIN-REFERRALS ID ENABLE IDLE AUTH=PLAIN AUTH=NTLM AUTH=LOGIN] Dovecot ready. a login a NO [AUTHENTICATIONFAILED] Authentication failed. b logout * BYE Logging out b OK Logout completed. - of course the proper credentials were put in..... Here is the details of pam.d/imap: # cat imap # # $FreeBSD: src/etc/pam.d/imap,v 1.7.10.1.6.1 2010/12/21 17:09:25 kensmith Exp $ # # PAM configuration for the "imap" service # # auth auth sufficient pam_winbind.so no_warn try_first_pass debug #auth sufficient pam_ssh.so no_warn try_first_pass auth required pam_unix.so no_warn try_first_pass # account #account required pam_nologin.so account required pam_unix.so #account required pam_winbind.so I also attempted a change in pam.d/system: # cat system # # $FreeBSD: src/etc/pam.d/system,v 1.1.32.1.6.1 2010/12/21 17:09:25 kensmith Exp $ # # System-wide defaults # # auth auth sufficient pam_opie.so no_warn no_fake_prompts auth requisite pam_opieaccess.so no_warn allow_local auth sufficient pam_krb5.so no_warn try_first_pass #auth sufficient pam_ssh.so no_warn try_first_pass auth required pam_unix.so no_warn try_first_pass nullok # account account required pam_krb5.so account required pam_login_access.so account required pam_unix.so # session #session optional pam_ssh.so session required pam_lastlog.so no_fail # password password sufficient pam_krb5.so no_warn try_first_pass password required pam_unix.so no_warn try_first_pass Which don't let me login to the Dovecot service :-( The dovecot.log file shows this: Jun 20 11:30:40 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4149 uid=0 code=kill) Jun 20 11:30:48 auth: Fatal: No passdbs specified in configuration file. LOGIN mechanism needs one Jun 20 11:30:48 master: Error: service(auth): command startup failed, throttling for 2 secs Jun 20 11:30:59 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4182 uid=0 code=kill) Jun 20 11:31:13 auth: Fatal: No passdbs specified in configuration file. LOGIN mechanism needs one Jun 20 11:31:13 master: Error: service(auth): command startup failed, throttling for 2 secs Jun 20 11:32:38 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4245 uid=0 code=kill) Jun 20 11:32:58 imap-login: Warning: Auth connection closed with 1 pending requests (max 0 secs, pid=4265, EOF) Jun 20 11:32:58 auth: Fatal: master: service(auth): child 4266 killed with signal 11 (core not dumped - set service auth { drop_priv_before_exec=yes }) Jun 20 11:46:21 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4318 uid=0 code=kill) Jun 20 11:46:42 auth-worker(4340): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot missing?) Jun 20 11:46:55 auth: Error: Got NTLMSSP neg_flags=0xa2088207 Jun 20 11:46:55 auth: Error: Got user=[] domain=[] workstation=[WKS-42] len1=24 len2=270 Jun 20 11:46:55 auth: Error: Login for user []\[]@[WKS-42] failed due to [Reading winbind reply failed!] Jun 20 11:49:47 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4400 uid=0 code=kill) Jun 20 11:49:53 auth: Fatal: passdb imap: Missing host parameter Jun 20 11:49:53 master: Error: service(auth): command startup failed, throttling for 2 secs Jun 20 11:50:10 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4439 uid=0 code=kill) Jun 20 11:50:22 auth-worker(4461): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot missing?) Jun 20 11:51:19 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4479 uid=0 code=kill) Jun 20 11:52:14 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4647 uid=0 code=kill) Jun 20 12:26:12 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=1349 uid=0 code=kill) Jun 20 12:26:32 auth-worker(1371): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot missing?) Jun 20 12:40:20 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=1436 uid=0 code=kill) Jun 20 12:40:39 auth-worker(1458): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot missing?) Jun 20 13:06:03 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=1653 uid=0 code=kill) Jun 20 13:07:37 auth-worker(1222): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot missing?) Jun 20 15:05:11 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=91263 uid=0 code=kill) Jun 22 10:02:03 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=38998 uid=0 code=kill) Jun 22 10:04:08 auth-worker(1229): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot missing?) Jun 22 10:10:47 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=1394 uid=0 code=kill) Jun 22 10:12:36 auth-worker(1218): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot missing?) Jun 22 10:20:57 auth-worker(1232): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot missing?) Can anybody help me with this? Regards, Kaya From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 08:54:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11A64106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:54:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cpghost@cordula.ws) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D128FC0A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:54:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so3602194pbb.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 01:54:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=+oWDiVu7rAQE3d3ACxw2k9QJFCLd7THbNQdVEE9GCmg=; b=Edm1wVwdSD79w/N0g2f6Ki8FxZv83Tjqth0Czl8RITUzE2WhQLDYftBErQVtMZpxkj QE8j/O+oxYER9C3B7iXZhb0KF2ds/atqz7ZIwRS2XFpc3FTm08TZJPUy7aqyOQ5P5D6L xdYEKcHH4C2VSGQUTNY6bf/NVx5+5SXexxB1tVXJTUEfJBPtX325vrSkV+w9FiONFmfO fTcL/oq0revDb22tY2hdvklMWnJ70s755fV8Lvsar8m7iQFHsDNcxwCJvtPgS0h6UL1n T611dQBsf/kFgJu1IblaEHHoUueHlKEpZSKu2wWXut1E7ejg+onti2cgQ+gArRqLDk1p GNew== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.195.167 with SMTP id if7mr8283943pbc.16.1340355293653; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 01:54:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.65.232 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 01:54:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [93.221.175.119] In-Reply-To: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <4FE35208.40708@queernet.org> <4FE35616.9080304@queernet.org> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:54:53 +0200 Message-ID: From: "C. P. Ghost" To: Mark Felder Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk4CW4pDNJgUMk6StMVWh4DgFdK+ngVv7HZ4m7Jex+WMPAHQyWvEEClxlcTc2CsknV2a1T3 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:54:55 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 7:28 PM, Mark Felder wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:16:31 -0500, Wojciech Puchar > wrote: > >> programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. > > This has not been decided in court yet. In which court not? Of which jurisdiction? Even if one jurisdiction says something doesn't mean all other 190+ or so countries would agree. Since we're an international project, better be safe (legally) than sorry, and avoid GPLv3 when possible. -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 09:11:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C16BC1065672 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:11:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dudegolden@yahoo.com) Received: from nm40-vm6.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm40-vm6.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [72.30.239.214]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5F27E8FC16 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:11:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.212.148] by nm40.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jun 2012 09:11:30 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.240] by tm5.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jun 2012 09:11:30 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1049.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jun 2012 09:11:30 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 388359.94371.bm@omp1049.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 73774 invoked by uid 60001); 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Fri, 22 Jun 2012 02:11:29 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.118.349524 Message-ID: <1340356289.73682.YahooMailNeo@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 02:11:29 -0700 (PDT) From: dude golden To: "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org" Subject: question about prblem with raid 1 for freeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: dude golden List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:11:36 -0000 HI there,=0A=0Ahope my email find you well, i recently order a server with = below configuration =0A=0AINTEL=0A1x Quad-Core i5-2500 3.3GHz, 6M Cache=0A1= 6GB DDR3=0A2x 500GB SATAII=0A=0Athen ask from my COLOCATION to install Free= BSD 8.2 or 8.3 with RAID 1, after many times of fail in installation from c= olocation they said that we have problem with RAID 1.we suggest them to pla= y with different kind of RAID like RAID 5 and they said as our requested se= rver only have 2 HDD, its not possible to set up RAID 5.=0A=0Anow they said= us that the only way for having backup of DATA in this condition is set up= a scheduled task to put back up of data in the second HDD .=0A=0A=0A=0Anow= i really need to know if there is a only way for having data back up in th= is condition or you have better idea according to your experience.also if i= ts the only way , would it be a good level of data security ?=0A=0A=0Alooki= ng forward to hear from your side soon.=0A=0ARegards,=0A=0ASmartelcom Team= =A0 From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 09:11:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C791065673 for ; 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charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org" Subject: question about prblem with raid 1 for freeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: dude golden List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:11:37 -0000 HI there,=0A=0Ahope my email find you well, i recently order a server with = below configuration =0A=0AINTEL=0A1x Quad-Core i5-2500 3.3GHz, 6M Cache=0A1= 6GB DDR3=0A2x 500GB SATAII=0A=0Athen ask from my COLOCATION to install Free= BSD 8.2 or 8.3 with RAID 1, after many times of fail in installation from c= olocation they said that we have problem with RAID 1.we suggest them to pla= y with different kind of RAID like RAID 5 and they said as our requested se= rver only have 2 HDD, its not possible to set up RAID 5.=0A=0Anow they said= us that the only way for having backup of DATA in this condition is set up= a scheduled task to put back up of data in the second HDD .=0A=0A=0A=0Anow= i really need to know if there is a only way for having data back up in th= is condition or you have better idea according to your experience.also if i= ts the only way , would it be a good level of data security ?=0A=0A=0Alooki= ng forward to hear from your side soon.=0A=0ARegards,=0A=0ASmartelcom Team= =A0 From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 09:16:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE712106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:16:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 423818FC0C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:16:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eabm6 with SMTP id m6so695526eab.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 02:16:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=FnAwZNDGHYPdF2cdzkQThls7aVMzmnll0NWDiR6/Qd4=; b=eO4cGq90mjeVGBYtCxSDQ4SHt/XKPIQeJMaPz8M38wmXGDbg3iwdQq4A/aURdUlPj2 q7JqMAs9CbgWx3NE7uVnsYgGCetw34Nrx6SF/19Cts5Cjx85DFL3JYG93HmZxf3Q9z4S uYKwFz8jMdKxOqem8q0CDQtO+Wq5hfWdkue/h/QgAp4fSoTm+6WzB7iC2OcoGmfvgpQi EZ3wq7XITKSo2uJTMwridN/oN9rvKzZfIHZtc4f4q3gHAd1GeTn4KlA5ECdId7LSPFP2 LGaC6IB8PGttI383jwYBcZHnmWkIfdL0Ae91Lha9JhkhTGKfb7hoexZCENIvn8fZZigI 3FCA== Received: by 10.14.28.202 with SMTP id g50mr267303eea.167.1340356617078; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 02:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfleuriot-at-hi-media.com ([83.167.62.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q53sm110773409eef.8.2012.06.22.02.16.55 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 02:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE43806.9080406@my.gd> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:16:54 +0200 From: Damien Fleuriot User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <1340356289.73682.YahooMailNeo@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1340356289.73682.YahooMailNeo@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlDZgueKCBc2ZqISmMUz/XBYrGbRAHEDfZfUbkIGMWqctN8uDAcK1z5TRr/qXfmrf74nPx6 Subject: Re: question about prblem with raid 1 for freeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:16:58 -0000 On 6/22/12 11:11 AM, dude golden wrote: > HI there, > > hope my email find you well, i recently order a server with below configuration > > INTEL > 1x Quad-Core i5-2500 3.3GHz, 6M Cache > 16GB DDR3 > 2x 500GB SATAII > > then ask from my COLOCATION to install FreeBSD 8.2 or 8.3 with RAID 1, after many times of fail in installation from colocation they said that we have problem with RAID 1.we suggest them to play with different kind of RAID like RAID 5 and they said as our requested server only have 2 HDD, its not possible to set up RAID 5. > > now they said us that the only way for having backup of DATA in this condition is set up a scheduled task to put back up of data in the second HDD . > > > > now i really need to know if there is a only way for having data back up in this condition or you have better idea according to your experience.also if its the only way , would it be a good level of data security ? > > > looking forward to hear from your side soon. > > Regards, > > Smartelcom Team Hi, Your colleagues are correct about the RAID levels, you can only do RAID5 with a minimum of 3 disks. Your available options with 2 disks are JBOD, RAID0 or RAID1. You obviously want RAID1. How have they tried to install the server ? I've had no problems ever installing 8.2 or 8.3 as a RAID using either gmirror, or hardware RAID. Does the server have a hardware RAID controller or are you trying software RAID ? Do you have remote console access to the server ? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 10:28:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BF62106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:28:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 539778FC16 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:28:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.187.76.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5MAS6hE039686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:28:07 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q5MAS6hE039686 Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/q5MAS6hE039686; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none Message-ID: <4FE448AF.5070906@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:27:59 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dude golden References: <1340356289.73682.YahooMailNeo@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1340356289.73682.YahooMailNeo@web160602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig9C1DCE908E73BE7579845AB7" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.5 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: question about prblem with raid 1 for freeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:28:12 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig9C1DCE908E73BE7579845AB7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 22/06/2012 10:11, dude golden wrote: > INTEL > 1x Quad-Core i5-2500 3.3GHz, 6M Cache > 16GB DDR3 > 2x 500GB SATAII > then ask from my COLOCATION to install FreeBSD 8.2 or 8.3 with RAID > 1, after many times of fail in installation from colocation they said > that we have problem with RAID 1.we suggest them to play with > different kind of RAID like RAID 5 and they said as our requested > server only have 2 HDD, its not possible to set up RAID 5. Correct. RAID5 requires at least 3 drives. The only way to have resilience against disk failure with just two drives is to use RAID1 (mirroring). How exactly are your colleagues attempting to set up RAID1. There are several different ways of doing it, but these are the most popular: * Using the built-in ATAPI RAID provided by many motherboards * gmirror * ZFS ATAPI RAID is perhaps the least effective, and may require downtime in order to rebuild the system after a disk failure. I suspect this is what is causing your colleagues problems. For setting up a gmirror RAID see this article: http://onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2005/11/10/FreeBSD_Basics.html (That will work fine with 8.2 or older and the old sysinstall; needs to be adapted if using the new bsdinstall with gpart) For setting up a ZFS mirror, see: http://wiki.freebsd.org/RootOnZFS/GPTZFSBoot/Mirror or I wrote a similar piece assuming use of bsdinstall: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/articles/install-on-zfs/ Both of the gmirror or ZFS procedures involve going beyond what the installer provides and doing at least part of the work from the command line. If that is too scary to contemplate, then try using the PC-BSD installer to install FreeBSD -- it lets you set up mirrors or ZFS from a menu system, and can install plain FreeBSD as well as PC-BSD: http://www.pcbsd.org/index.php?option=3Dcom_zoo&view=3Ditem&Itemid=3D98= > now they said us that the only way for having backup of DATA in this > condition is set up a scheduled task to put back up of data in the > second HDD . Well, this is really unsatisfactory and your colleagues should be ashamed= =2E First of all, RAID1 is not *backup*. If you accidentally delete a file, it will be removed from both of the mirrored drives. The thing that RAID1 gets you is resilience to disk failure: one of your drives going 'pop' will not result in the system crashing or any service interruption.= Backup of the system should be arranged through some other means: there are many programs available to do the job in the base system or the ports -- personally I like tarsnap, which will backup your data to the cloud (Amazon flavoured cloud, that is) for a very reasonable rate. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey --------------enig9C1DCE908E73BE7579845AB7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/kSLYACgkQ8Mjk52CukIyrGwCfbmA5bJbRn1nKXTmH/H/GqM/L RuUAn1hQrOhxrflWg/ialOKalS1do6v1 =zOej -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig9C1DCE908E73BE7579845AB7-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 11:05:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AAE1106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:05:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED0188FC08 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:05:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5MB5DNS041174 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:05:13 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:05:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206221105.q5MB5DNS041174@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:05:03 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 21 06:07:49 2012 > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:06:12 +0200 (CEST) > From: Wojciech Puchar > To: Michel Talon > Cc: FreeBSD Questions , kpneal@pobox.com > Subject: Re: Why Clang > > > for commercial sponsors of FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD itself. If FreeBSD appears > > as a subsidiary of some commercial company (say Juniper) i am not sure this will be good > > I think any project that size is actually a subsidiary and must be. Which simply proves you don't know what you don't know. > I just don't like that it isn't stated openly! No one on the Project would consider lying about such things, "just to make Wojciech happy." > instead of personal attacks, messing with my (and others) sentences and > posting evident lies just to "explain" the decision. Maybe when you stop lying about what the others say. > It is a difference between honest people and fools. You have made it clear that -you- are a name-calling fool. People have tried to explain, clearly, and politely, the *multiple* factors that went into the decision. You ignore everything else, and fixate on the one that seems specious to you. > There is nothing to prevent giving source with system. Non-Free software > doesn't have to be binary only. Nice strawman. But you cannot show where anybody has claimed it did. > For paying this i would like FreeBSD to be maintained with quality and > performance being the only reason, not politics. A demonstrable lie -- the only thing you care about is speed of execution. > Nothing against Juniper (the make truly good working hardware), but if > they enforce decision because of their personal likes then it must be > stopped. Therefore, _your_ attempts to enforce decisions because of your personal likes must be stopped. > GPLv3 based C compiler does not prevent making closed source software like > JunOS for example. You don't _know_ that. It is only your -opinion-. How much of a financial bond are you willing to put up, payable to, say, Juniper, if they "rely" on your _opinion_, and it turns out to be wrong?` > It is only "i hate GNU" type decision. You lie. > I hate too, and in spite of this am against removing gcc and replacing it > with much worse product. Your closed--mind bias is showing. You think it's ok to get _wrong_ answers rather than correct answers, if you get the wrong answeers faster and the correct answers somewhat slower. GCC, even 4.21., is well known for generating "bad code" -- meaning 'logically incorrect and gives wrong answers', and sometimes 'code that cannot be successfully executed' -- e.g. it always segfaults or has some other fatal exception -- under a number of conditions. The variety of such instances increases with vritually -every- minor "upgrade' to the compiler. Code that worked under minor release 'x', not work under x+1, because 'yet another' of these 'features' crept in.. There are "known bugs" of this sort in GCC that have been identified for over a -decade-. But, the GCC source-code is such a swamp that *nobody* has been able to figure out, or find, *where* the problem is occurring -- let alone determine what needs to be changed, to fix it. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 11:11:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6343B1065673 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:11:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09A398FC0A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:11:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5MBBk8r041206 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:11:46 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:11:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206221111.q5MBBk8r041206@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:11:29 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 21 06:18:56 2012 > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:03:12 +0430 > From: Hooman Fazaeli > To: FreeBSD Questions > Subject: Is ZFS production ready? > > Dear community > > In the past, I built a 8TB ZFS log server on freebsd 7.4. > However, the system experienced instablility after long up times. > My main motive to use ZFS was UFS inability to support large > file systems. > > Now, I want to the same thing on 8.3 and wanted to know > your opinion on ZFS stability. Is there any success story using > ZFS in 24x7, large volume, heavy duty servers? Is there any > other option other than ZFS to build larger than 2TB file systems? One alternative might be the 'new, improved' UFS -- "UFS2". I believe it supports filesystems up to 2^73 bytes (2^64 sectors). From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 11:16:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 173C7106566C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:16:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 912FE8FC0C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:16:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5DCBDCF3.dip.t-dialin.net [93.203.220.243]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5MBGWqb060051; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:16:33 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5MBGL4G007423; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:16:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5MBG9kP043426; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:16:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201206221116.q5MBG9kP043426@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Chad Perrin From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:42:12 MDT." <20120622044212.GC24912@hemlock.hydra> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:16:09 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:16:44 -0000 Chad Perrin wrote: > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 01:06:12PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > i already proposed (but not publically) to turn FreeBSD into > > commercial system. > > > > REALLY i would not see a problem to pay say 100$ per server licence. > > I would see a problem with that -- not because I don't think FreeBSD is > worth it. I do, and I think it is worth more than that, in fact. The > biggest problem with what you propose, though, is that it would destroy Hi Chad etc, I admire the perserverance, but maybe "Don't feed the troll" ? Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 11:19:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12EF7106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:19:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE3A38FC1B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:19:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5MBJg89041285 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:19:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:19:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206221119.q5MBJg89041285@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:19:25 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wrote:` > Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? > > stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. > And it works fast. Be sure to descrirbe how that is even _possible_, given that the OP needs/ wants "larger than 2tb" filesystems. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 09:02:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104D3106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:02:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dhaghnia@smartelcom.net) Received: from crscentos2.parsdata.com (crscentos2.parsdata.com [87.247.179.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A376B8FC0A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:02:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [213.207.239.186] (helo=[192.168.1.3]) by crscentos2.parsdata.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ShzjN-0000D4-TT; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:30:42 +0430 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.0.0.071130 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:38:38 +0430 From: shahram haghnia To: info smartelcom , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: problem with RAID 1 and requesting for solutions Thread-Index: Ac1QVpwan96lmlANrEGi65izUcpihA== In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:20:52 +0000 Cc: Subject: Re: problem with RAID 1 and requesting for solutions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:02:25 -0000 Dear Sir/Madam, Iam really appreciate if you take a look into below email and advise me any update. On 6/16/12 7:01 PM, "info smartelcom" wrote: > HI there, > > hope my email find you well, i recently order a server with below > configuration > > INTEL > 1x Quad-Core i5-2500 3.3GHz, 6M Cache > 16GB DDR3 > 2x 500GB SATAII > > then ask from my COLOCATION to install FreeBSD 8.2 or 8.3 with RAID 1, after > many times of fail in installation from colocation they said that we have > problem with RAID 1.we suggest them to play with different kind of RAID like > RAID 5 and they said as our requested server only have 2 HDD, its not possible > to set up RAID 5. > > now they said us that the only way for having backup of DATA in this condition > is set up a scheduled task to put back up of data in the second HDD . > > > > now i really need to know if there is a only way for having data back up in > this condition or you have better idea according to your experience.also if > its the only way , would it be a good level of data security ? > > > looking forward to hear from your side soon. > > Regards, > > Smartelcom Team > > > > Regards Shahram Haghnia Technical Director ------------------------ Smartelcom Communications Global Wholesale Services From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 12:10:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 023E81065673 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:10:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE218FC16 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:10:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5MCB7tS041562 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:11:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:11:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206221211.q5MCB7tS041562@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:10:50 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 21 11:50:42 2012 > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:47:30 +0200 (CEST) > From: Wojciech Puchar > To: Matthias Gamsjager > Cc: FreeBSD Questions > Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? > > > > > True but this applies as much to you. You think you know it all and that is quite the probdlem with you. > > And "discussing" with you is a true waste with this attittute. Even its free. > > > so stop it. "If you don't have something to say, don't say it." --- the immortal words of Wojcciec It's a shame tou don't practice wyat you preach, troll. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 12:23:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E156C106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:23:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88FAF8FC0C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:23:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5MCNQxp041638 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:23:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:23:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206221223.q5MCNQxp041638@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:23:09 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >> > >> "We put clang because sponsors wanted it." > >> > > > > > > Sponsors didn't want clang. Sponsors wanted not to be encumbered by a GPLv3 > they are not. > programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. You don't know what you don't know, trollboi. Anything so much as -linked- with a libarary that is under GPLv3, *IS* subject to GPLv3 terms, -unless- the library has an express exclusion From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 12:26:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EC5F106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:26:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C098FC0C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:26:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5MCQUCD041656 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:26:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:26:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206221226.q5MCQUCD041656@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:26:13 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 21 12:37:00 2012 > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:30:40 +0200 (CEST) > From: Wojciech Puchar > To: Mark Felder > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Why Clang > > z> wrote: > > > >> programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. > > > > This has not been decided in court yet. > > > sources please! Easy! Here is the complete list of court rulings on the matter: [end of list] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 12:28:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFE7510656A9 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:28:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA718FC1D for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:27:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5MCSHHa041669 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:28:17 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:28:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206221228.q5MCSHHa041669@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:28:00 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 21 12:39:02 2012 > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:30:23 +0200 (CEST) > From: Wojciech Puchar > To: "Robison, Dave" > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Why Clang > > > Because there's no reason to do that. It's an asinine suggestion. > > > > Clang is here to stay. Most of us are happy about that decision. GCC > > Because most that are not already stopped and ignored thing. and use GCC. > > Politics won. Liar. *Quality*, mantainability, and standards compliance won. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 12:40:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C071106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:40:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A6CD8FC08 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:40:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5MCeVEF041711 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:40:31 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:40:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206221240.q5MCeVEF041711@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:40:13 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 21 12:44:17 2012 > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:36:03 +0200 (CEST) > From: Wojciech Puchar > To: Mark Felder > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Why Clang > > >> > >> sources please! > > > > Google "GPLv3 court case". There are no applicable results. Until a Judge > > decides what the license truly means everyone using it is at risk. > > true. > > But why anyone from FreeBSD fundation didn't just write official letter > to GNU "Free" Software Foundation asking for just that case? Because it doesn't address an of the *OTHER* valid reasons why GCC is being replaced -- among them: 1) GCC's continuously increasing propensity to generate "bad code", 2) The inability of GCC mamintainers to fix _long-standing_ bugs, some have been identified for over a decade, and have not been fixed. 3) The continuously increasing trend of introducing 'non standard' features, 4) The growing need to 'write around' correct/valid code that GCC will not compile. 5) The fact that the GCC code is 'unmaintainable' -- *NO*ONE* (other than someone who has been working with GCC internals for "forever" --a decade at an absolute minimum) has any chance of 'understanding' what it is doing internally. GPLv3 concerns are 'incidental' to those 'fundamental' issues. It may have been "the straw that broke the camel's back", but there were lots of other VALID reasons to trashcan GCC. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 12:41:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1813106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:41:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 458068FC08 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:41:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5MCfuZG041722 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:41:56 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:41:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206221241.q5MCfuZG041722@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:41:38 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 21 12:46:15 2012 > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:37:48 -0500 > From: Mark Felder > Cc: Wojciech Puchar > Subject: Re: Why Clang > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:36:03 -0500, Wojciech Puchar > wrote: > > > > > But why anyone from FreeBSD fundation didn't just write official letter > > to GNU "Free" Software Foundation asking for just that case? > > There needs to be a lawsuit and lawyers and judges need to be involved. > You can't just ask the FSF to "explain" themselves. You _can_ ask. The response just doesn't 'mean anything' -- the actual language of the 'license' takes precedence. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 12:47:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1430106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:47:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 523998FC08 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:47:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5MClmxm078368; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:47:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5MClmZc078365; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:47:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:47:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Ian Smith In-Reply-To: <20120622153224.I46641@sola.nimnet.asn.au> Message-ID: References: <20120621083945.E87771065694@hub.freebsd.org> <20120622153224.I46641@sola.nimnet.asn.au> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:47:48 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Modulok Subject: Re: OT: Robotics or embedded or hardware programming... what is this called? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:47:49 -0000 On Fri, 22 Jun 2012, Ian Smith wrote: > I thought I saw something somewhere (maybe just wishful thinking) about > FreeBSD on the Arduino, which normally runs a sort of embedded Linux, > that could be very interesting; the hardware is cheap (kits at Jaycar > stores in Australia anyway), very modular design, and there are heaps of > fascinating projects. I want the quadricopter to follow me around the > room at parties - at my age I need something really impressive :) Well, there is devel/arduino. It's not emdedded Linux, but an IDE for writing and downloading code. The Arduino is a small embedded controller based on the Atmel AVR microcontrollers. They are quite powerful, easy to program, and accessible for experimenters. You can skip the Arduino environment if you like, using the same lower-level tools like avr-gcc directly. And the Arduino board can be used as a programmer, downloading code to plain AVR chips and avoiding the need for more Arduino boards. Talk about the Arduino on FreeBSD is generally on the freebsd-embedded mailing list. The Microchip PIC microcontrollers compete with the AVR. There are some FreeBSD ports for programming those, but there are many varying chips and the hardware needed to program some of them differs. I don't know if there is anything directly comparable to the Arduino IDE. ARM processors have become so cheap that they are starting to compete in this arena also. > On the FreeBSD side there's advanced work, I gather, on ARM and Atmel > MEGA 32-bit and MIPS platforms at least. Personally I consider these > 'big iron' and far prefer writing in macro assembler for little Atmel > Tiny25s and such, but that's strictly "Look Ma, no OS!" programming. Another option: the freebsd-wireless list has had some very interesting traffic about the TP-Link TL-WR1043ND, a $50 MIPS-based wireless router with Atheros 802.11n chipset, USB, and gigabit Ethernet which can run FreeBSD directly. Not sure how usable it is at present. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 13:13:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13B26106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:13:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from developerunix@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f170.google.com (mail-wi0-f170.google.com [209.85.212.170]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 903268FC16 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:13:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhq12 with SMTP id hq12so705083wib.1 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:13:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:x-priority:message-id:to:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/c552H5qSXn6bPabmw1dBNk/N+4kIWkCp9dbAEOEclM=; b=HPyrrVJ/YNGIy4ZF+kRKiLpRh0nVX1kiwYDXM2Uao05qoz3/+qYraadILKged12ox4 10c65PGWLmDhRNeCXqYszQPr8gkBc6M2h+d7mQfYHzu3HtThYVI5FAN+mOa5AKpsafT4 8ojSSvpcsZxeYYOfbklPyaTVtH5XdNftx8404u2goIY6bc3lU3T/Lgc1UmPA1QTL16JJ 7UWpl/dPeqiKR0RrK2Y5hd/Fh5X7J1UsTiao+1fETYEDkzrmidfVbChLNJ9oBBsr6NPz UxVn1Zcc8GQw2X8p9uEUP8RAtg8PzUvxInweeq8+HzOBnD5lCiFugaXneir/h3/PNuQl O0Aw== Received: by 10.180.99.70 with SMTP id eo6mr4675001wib.17.1340370793402; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from HP.mits.lv ([136.169.30.17]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id et10sm51960911wib.2.2012.06.22.06.13.11 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:13:09 +0300 From: "UNIX developer @ Google.com" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1988813484.20120622161309@gmail.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: <1842148286.20120621235936@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Problem with routing in VmWare VMS X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:13:15 -0000 Ok, I understud! I remove from rc.conf this rows: static_routes=3D"clnet" route_clnet=3D"-net 192.168.2.0/24 192.168.1.10" new rc.conf: ifconfig_em0=3D" inet 192.168.1.10 netmask 255.255.255.0" ifconfig_em1=3D" inet 192.168.2.1 netmask 255.255.255.0" defaultrouter=3D"192.168.1.1" gateway_enable=3D"YES" now after reboot the problem still the same. ping -S 192.168.2.1 192.168.1.1 PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) from 192.168.2.1: 56 data bytes ^C --- 192.168.1.1 ping statistics --- 8 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100.0% packet loss netstat -nr Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default 192.168.1.1 UGS 0 38 em0 127.0.0.1 link#4 UH 0 0 lo0 192.168.1.0/24 link#1 U 0 1153 em0 192.168.1.10 link#1 UHS 0 6 lo0 192.168.2.0/24 link#2 U 0 0 em1 192.168.2.1 link#2 UHS 0 6 lo0 Where more can be trouble? ------------- =D0=92=D1=8B =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB=D0=B8 22 =D0=B8=D1=8E=D0=BD=D1= =8F 2012 =D0=B3., 0:56:49: > On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:59:36 -0500, UNIX developer @ Google.com =20 > wrote: >> /etc/rc.conf >> ifconfig_em0=3D" inet 192.168.1.10 netmask 255.255.255.0" >> ifconfig_em1=3D" inet 192.168.2.1 netmask 255.255.255.0" >> defaultrouter=3D"192.168.1.1" >> gateway_enable=3D"YES" >> static_routes=3D"clnet" >> route_clnet=3D"-net 192.168.2.0/24 192.168.1.10" > You simply CANNOT do this. Traffic for 192.168.2.0/24 is bound to em1 and > cannot be changed. You setup a static route that basically says "to find > 192.168.2.0/24, don't use em1 but instead ask 192.168.1.10 how to find it= "? > This makes no sense at all. --=20 =D0=A1 =D1=83=D0=B2=D0=B0=D0=B6=D0=B5=D0=BD=D0=B8=D0=B5=D0=BC, UNIX mailto:developerunix@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 13:35:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF613106566C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:35:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from developerunix@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36EDE8FC08 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:35:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so1955062bkv.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:35:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:x-priority:message-id:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zRopVh4T6WhUW1htlKvCurwI90bhbixWfpM4skN8hSw=; b=iUyOR2aNVomIvcCLyB3KopTflXBwqowXkHhWB3CPLd6I10WoujDdDWuImZYfCCFbKm mmZdFtWuXszU2ugQVASapuCVGkG8A/+MbLaMi/Dq6EasV6ZQtj3/y/nuvwF9riVzHZzD zO9LnMBPLYknPjVDyIq9x2YTZVkl7LnyY3mkBramcaBjBtKyjWoqc/u/FQ46BwU6q7mr ABIiRZ5cQdUoSa5b4zWqb97LmlZH4v+6sYRBOgjsyS3Nuz7tmHifypkA/2c7IiQzpNro oWTN7BoHbQY2+N6kETxqhFKrW1W/kLCrVLnnzjzuXUVlaNtdwv2pi1+vDEUtEsayj+Uj /RpA== Received: by 10.204.154.144 with SMTP id o16mr785509bkw.107.1340372156904; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from HP.mits.lv ([136.169.30.17]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fw10sm36041041bkc.11.2012.06.22.06.35.55 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:35:52 +0300 From: "UNIX developer @ Google.com" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <853166013.20120622163552@gmail.com> To: Mark Felder In-Reply-To: References: <1842148286.20120621235936@gmail.com> <1274191465.20120622161043@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Problem with routing in VmWare VMS X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:35:58 -0000 Thank you, Mark! All work! ------------- =D0=92=D1=8B =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB=D0=B8 22 =D0=B8=D1=8E=D0=BD=D1= =8F 2012 =D0=B3., 16:31:39: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:10:43 -0500, UNIX developer @ Google.com =20 > wrote: >> now after reboot the problem still the same. >> ping -S 192.168.2.1 192.168.1.1 >> PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) from 192.168.2.1: 56 data bytes >> ^C >> --- 192.168.1.1 ping statistics --- >> 8 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100.0% packet loss > 192.168.1.1 does not know how to find 192.168.2.1, so it can't respond to > the ping. I bet it only has a default route to the internet. If you add a > static route on 192.168.1.1 telling it that it can find 192.168.2.0/24 at > 192.168.1.10 it will probably work. > On 192.168.1.1: > route add -net 192.168.2.0/24 192.168.1.10 > Now the pings will work. --=20 =D0=A1 =D1=83=D0=B2=D0=B0=D0=B6=D0=B5=D0=BD=D0=B8=D0=B5=D0=BC, UNIX mailto:developerunix@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 14:13:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 706A3106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:13:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from axelbsd@ymail.com) Received: from nm17-vm1.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (nm17-vm1.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.146.183.94]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A82778FC16 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:13:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [217.146.183.217] by nm17.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jun 2012 14:13:00 -0000 Received: from [217.146.183.109] by tm10.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jun 2012 14:13:00 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp110.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jun 2012 14:13:00 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ymail.com; s=s1024; t=1340374380; bh=uwVLe6LERpjraFc+N6mTUGEnzboc/RuxbnCk+RW834c=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Received:Received:MIME-Version:Received:In-Reply-To:References:From:Date:Message-ID:Subject:To:Cc:Content-Type; b=KLXz8oit8MzAKnkqL7kioduq/fiIANyGpNvZlS2wQBfO/1qAYCQiEK7mfpqaSaKzPNDg7IQ8w6uGrIiccg455BwJMBrJanhn9rmK0hHvECUaxeIRkZwJqL0pp2eHqVIBHgs2oMq0nuPH8I6C8Dp55TIkGnihmvS88eeW3P8zWBU= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 350811.51505.bm@smtp110.mail.ukl.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-5 X-YMail-OSG: hRYAjzQVM1kh2rkLr3pkzYmFsCeRuR.qn1laQ7TmnGzXNCq ipTOOtLNnAufHWiahdYzFAh_4HSWAoFPUJtKOpQxhXlsqsV9NGrcAuBGp0hE 0gfm6wHW3H2v5G9fYhkJCX2arlABe3I6pTiMbOr4Zdksmp8xs0Aj7Vev.6Nr BQAVazysCf9da2vEewxkrLFkbqThCqvJv9CEKBQFjVdIzAPqoHIAjlpaUC_f LPiu5weOXTCj_xzZlHHZDWSRb7dkjYdsYBpk2593yMdR.fLDPaX6hGTC77y2 px00Z9dZV4r2gzk_mDO8yAishzMlZQdZNHnDmo1sRx8vOb4uNXmd97bIAud0 LYamCuqpB9fsWULBiAPUKhjjhaKmMQC0DBNcUO0YMiGwIErBO2GcDqguB7cn jBNRjZ4KWYIqhaSMddo5t5bwzqFs5LEK2qPNeKuaqAZH0e9Z5eg04Nvm25A8 Q6iEymU9njJD6IPKNtGVtEQ3OSHuelQjBw5akqQbfKL9wBQE9Woke.oN7Pt. O9WPrOV8Gbh5_UItfbOYEm6V8Q9stgknzTWW0xYMjFkQoY_WUvA0DjCCOX0D QNjFaQj1Hk.TWekV0S58UK0KJHLU7Ipiitnp2A2CN6knQsxrBXn6mxN0NCGj mvQtkiz_BuH8I37RiQ.N0GNlU51Q- X-Yahoo-SMTP: S65s63SswBDjU54Gjqw2GSWlZmfgiEU_X3tN1_9u Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (axelbsd@209.85.213.182 with plain) by smtp110.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2012 07:12:59 -0700 PDT Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so1821255yen.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.14.68 with SMTP id n4mr2130636oec.24.1340374379161; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:12:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.217.4 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:12:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1988813484.20120622161309@gmail.com> References: <1842148286.20120621235936@gmail.com> <1988813484.20120622161309@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:12:38 +0200 Message-ID: To: "UNIX developer @ Google.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problem with routing in VmWare VMS X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:13:08 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 3:13 PM, UNIX developer @ Google.com < developerunix@gmail.com> wrote: > Ok, I understud! > I remove from rc.conf this rows: > static_routes=3D"clnet" > route_clnet=3D"-net 192.168.2.0/24 192.168.1.10" > > new rc.conf: > ifconfig_em0=3D" inet 192.168.1.10 netmask 255.255.255.0" > ifconfig_em1=3D" inet 192.168.2.1 netmask 255.255.255.0" > defaultrouter=3D"192.168.1.1" > gateway_enable=3D"YES" > > > now after reboot the problem still the same. > > ping -S 192.168.2.1 192.168.1.1 > PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) from 192.168.2.1: 56 data bytes > ^C > --- 192.168.1.1 ping statistics --- > 8 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100.0% packet loss > > > netstat -nr > Routing tables > > Internet: > Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expir= e > default 192.168.1.1 UGS 0 38 em0 > 127.0.0.1 link#4 UH 0 0 lo0 > 192.168.1.0/24 link#1 U 0 1153 em0 > 192.168.1.10 link#1 UHS 0 6 lo0 > 192.168.2.0/24 link#2 U 0 0 em1 > 192.168.2.1 link#2 UHS 0 6 lo0 > > Where more can be trouble? > > > ------------- > =D0=92=D1=8B =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB=D0=B8 22 =D0=B8=D1=8E=D0=BD= =D1=8F 2012 =D0=B3., 0:56:49: > > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:59:36 -0500, UNIX developer @ Google.com > > wrote: > > >> /etc/rc.conf > >> ifconfig_em0=3D" inet 192.168.1.10 netmask 255.255.255.0" > >> ifconfig_em1=3D" inet 192.168.2.1 netmask 255.255.255.0" > >> defaultrouter=3D"192.168.1.1" > >> gateway_enable=3D"YES" > >> static_routes=3D"clnet" > >> route_clnet=3D"-net 192.168.2.0/24 192.168.1.10" > > > You simply CANNOT do this. Traffic for 192.168.2.0/24 is bound to em1 > and > > cannot be changed. You setup a static route that basically says "to fin= d > > 192.168.2.0/24, don't use em1 but instead ask 192.168.1.10 how to find > it"? > > > This makes no sense at all. > > > -- > =D0=A1 =D1=83=D0=B2=D0=B0=D0=B6=D0=B5=D0=BD=D0=B8=D0=B5=D0=BC, > UNIX mailto:developerunix@gmail.com > Hi, Your problem, as Mark told you, is that you are buildinga gateway to connect two networks on the same subnet. Regards, Alexandre From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 14:24:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7098310658EC for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:24:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linnemannr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F9FA8FC17 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:24:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so3984119pbb.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:24:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=WXZ1zpjPIp+GI0KzHxALTcy6gjhMAUpm5oiS262+uyo=; b=oTOkH2Tb9Tjjgd6pzPGn+FHI6jylt20/2EpNZZoFqjlirR8SrU/tGizmBKtav6RQf8 SQRwzOCXlvtT14M3QKPrOs5nmZm0AUh0OzzjI9wV/bDomYaGO7/IFq1+YCYTGSfVd6Z3 SZU4mxqpi9kU+w84PUICKukfHR8Cmh7vPkcMzZl5ioe25Yr59Raryod0yQFH79F1IStz a3FjjYK5045cYtJHMNrcXHp/Ml6UQLMDMZHwasWp15FCP3LUhVQpCyfrDwIasSu1MjyO owDMod23tRj1UHjrT4PWuIvR8mQJbbyZmErSKuk0eQs9Q/1IcQpLjsxqYz0pfpZLGVha KWjQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.232.201 with SMTP id tq9mr11121313pbc.70.1340375097813; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Sender: linnemannr@gmail.com Received: by 10.68.230.37 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:24:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120622042703.GB24912@hemlock.hydra> References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <20120622042703.GB24912@hemlock.hydra> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:24:57 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: TxeSHaKs2B3DDc3EIchzbr62BK0 Message-ID: From: Reid Linnemann To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:24:58 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 11:27 PM, Chad Perrin wrote: > I disagree with the assessment by others that FreeBSD is in some way > effectively a subsidiary of its corporate users, but it does have > corporate users, as well as non-corporate users. =A0Just as it must > reasonably see to the needs of the individuals who use it, so must it > also reasonably see to the needs of those corporate users, especially > when some of those corporate users' employees are key developers for the > base system (to the significant benefit of the rest of us). =A0Thus, sayi= ng > that a particular set of conditions having an impact on commercial > sponsors of FreeBSD has "zero bearing on FreeBSD itself" is just . . . > incorrect. And I would like to stress on this point that, when I referred to corporate sponsorship in an earlier post, I was thinking specifically about the sponsorship of employing developers that keep the system moving forward, not necessarily monetary donations. The foundation does need money, but the software is doomed if no one is gainfully employed to maintain and enhance it. I think there is an altruistic fiction that many people subscribe to that free software is merely the result of the generosity of developers producing code of their own volition and on their own spare time and "giving it away," and from that viewpoint the act of considering concerns of a sponsoring entity amounts to "selling out." The reality is much different and much more complex, as you well know. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 14:26:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 415621065672 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:26:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E7FA8FC20 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:25:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5MEPt86028065; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:25:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5MEPtCv028062; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:25:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:25:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Robert Bonomi In-Reply-To: <201206221240.q5MCeVEF041711@mail.r-bonomi.com> Message-ID: References: <201206221240.q5MCeVEF041711@mail.r-bonomi.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:25:55 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:26:00 -0000 > Because it doesn't address an of the *OTHER* valid reasons why GCC is > being replaced -- among them: > 1) GCC's continuously increasing propensity to generate "bad code", examples? All test shows that gcc code is not only bad, but very good. Why are you just saying things you know isn't true? > 2) The inability of GCC mamintainers to fix _long-standing_ bugs, some > have been identified for over a decade, and have not been fixed. That's true. still not that much. > 3) The continuously increasing trend of introducing 'non standard' features, No need to use them. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 14:44:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D80106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:44:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from c.kworr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CC78FC0A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:44:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so2053883bkv.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:44:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+Q5k8T6bTv653mwssPlYM7Osaj9+M4NLrnxoh73nV1E=; b=odxNPKw0nLpcBz0W4Ys7bAaXM65eokZ7pkdyy+0iSDeA8QJULLJLwfqj2AJLmUi36g XinFygtFu63jtZHoU8AFu0yCIUYqlqEePpgYBnf70+zNtmLOS5jqK76KskVSM4oXdmGk L8LcN5s4GAWPOxqmXKHv+t6ovLumP7KKgm0JBWZZzsReVFm7tjDdPFFXD+7CWoved5P3 6FzLUYekBaGpXFXiHHx3a3dmIjo1O8R4mYRrl7j1UF6eySEeoro/In0sCZ1DU64wW+mQ 9OPt1ojts+rhXgfiVwNc12NxPRb4Mkeg7VRjoBFUCnZaWLpvL6X1GeTtEEBeSwb2b4p3 Op7Q== Received: by 10.204.156.77 with SMTP id v13mr916331bkw.59.1340376277221; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from green.tandem.local (utwig.xim.bz. [91.216.237.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id iq16sm36267381bkc.6.2012.06.22.07.44.34 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 07:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE484D0.7030005@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:44:32 +0300 From: Volodymyr Kostyrko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120605 Firefox/12.0 SeaMonkey/2.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <201206221240.q5MCeVEF041711@mail.r-bonomi.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:44:38 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> Because it doesn't address an of the *OTHER* valid reasons why GCC is >> being replaced -- among them: >> 1) GCC's continuously increasing propensity to generate "bad code", > > examples? All test shows that gcc code is not only bad, but very good. > Why are you just saying things you know isn't true? 0k, what if I add my example? Hardware: Processor: Intel Xeon E5620 (16 Cores), Motherboard: Supermicro X8DT3 1234567890, Memory: 24576MB, Disk: SEAGATE ST3146855SS S527 + SEAGATE ST31000640SS 0001 + SEAGATE ST31000640SS 0001 + SEAGATE ST3146855SS S528 + TOSHIBA Trans 1.00 + TEAC DV-28S-V 1.0B Software: OS: FreeBSD, Kernel: 9.0-RELEASE-p3 (x86_64), Compiler: GCC 4.2.1 20070831 + Clang 3.0 (SVN 142614), File-System: zfs CPUTYPE=core2 clang 3.0 Test project /tmp/ports/usr/ports/graphics/png/work/libpng-1.5.11 Start 1: pngtest 1/2 Test #1: pngtest .......................... Passed 0.02 sec Start 2: pngvalid 2/2 Test #2: pngvalid ......................... Passed 14.03 sec gcc 4.6 (lang/gcc, USE_GCC=4.6+) Test project /tmp/ports/usr/ports/graphics/png/work/libpng-1.5.11 Start 1: pngtest 1/2 Test #1: pngtest .......................... Passed 0.02 sec Start 2: pngvalid 2/2 Test #2: pngvalid ......................... Passed 14.40 sec gcc 4.2.1 Test project /tmp/ports/usr/ports/graphics/png/work/libpng-1.5.11 Start 1: pngtest 1/2 Test #1: pngtest .......................... Passed 0.02 sec Start 2: pngvalid 2/2 Test #2: pngvalid ......................... Passed 14.96 sec This one shows that clang is superior to both gcc 4.2.1 and gcc 4.6. I haven't test data now but a month or so ago I tested them on one of the Alioth Shootout examples (nestedloop probably). gcc 4.2.1 was winning, clang was close with fractions of percent drop of speed but gcc 4.6 was off for nearly 7%. >> 3) The continuously increasing trend of introducing 'non standard' >> features, > No need to use them. There's no 'Unsubscribe me' link included... -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 15:14:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB1E4106566C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:14:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gobble.wa@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com (mail-wi0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50F878FC08 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:14:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhm11 with SMTP id hm11so605497wib.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:14:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=K5y1u30EVpx+hPllFO5VQmCL1pWAHUQLJKouL1/3Ugk=; b=BICb7uxHUs69xgBOj15a9d+mAYs7LJAUe8VTLykdwYkUw0/gxYOwq4yKW7DExSFrIs sT7D+y8LgOZwAwp3xhseiRWJSmbM/87leqc3RGsrLQmHQla/f05bGc3BWgswEh4Iyeel HPbMEYsKrlBcJOxF0sT8EEpxCfM82Tufy1RcGw3+f5g2Voq+hL4/kDe2rH9EZkFEUy5V VKhI56qf5F802HwP6rAhGiT9Tx5GVX7mLnEWK+VYnwETXdcQyuT2lytHB0g8o0Nol/j8 dSr0TUrHUjQi8eETncC4X/z2qBZwe3eL4NEEiqFDJdyKbO4mVATwWBtB3Y4fuwJBnU4n Sv0g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.193.166 with SMTP id k38mr1297270wen.200.1340378059347; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.138.220 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.138.220 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:14:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:14:19 -0700 Message-ID: From: Waitman Gobble To: Kaya Saman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-questions Subject: Re: Could someone help me with Dovecot AD integration PAM setup? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:14:21 -0000 On Jun 22, 2012 1:45 AM, "Kaya Saman" wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm trying to authenticate Dovecot to Active Directory using the > SAMBA/Winbind method and so far my setup seems that everything is > working apart from the Dovecot authentication which I believe I have > traced to PAM. > > I can login using an AD account using: > > wbinfo -K > > # wbinfo -K > Enter 's password: > plaintext kerberos password authentication for [] succeeded > (requesting cctype: FILE) > > > This is the current Dovecot config: > > > # cat dovecot.conf > # v1.1: > #auth_ntlm_use_winbind = yes > # v1.2+: > auth_use_winbind = yes > > auth_winbind_helper_path = /usr/local/bin/ntlm_auth > > protocols = imap > > # It's nice to have separate log files for Dovecot. You could do this > # by changing syslog configuration also, but this is easier. > log_path = /var/log/dovecot.log > info_log_path = /var/log/dovecot-info.log > > # Disable SSL for now. > ssl = no > disable_plaintext_auth = no > > # We're using Maildir format > #mail_location = maildir:~/Maildir > mail_location = mbox:/mail:INBOX=/mail/%u > > # If you're using POP3, you'll need this: > #pop3_uidl_format = %g > > # Authentication configuration: > auth_verbose = yes > auth_debug = yes > auth_username_format = %n > auth_mechanisms = plain ntlm login > userdb { > driver = static > args = uid=501 gid=501 home=/mail/%u > driver = static > } > > passdb { > driver = pam > } > > > > Here is a "test" login attempt: > > > # telnet localhost 143 > Trying 127.0.0.1... > Connected to localhost. > Escape character is '^]'. > * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 LITERAL+ SASL-IR LOGIN-REFERRALS ID ENABLE > IDLE AUTH=PLAIN AUTH=NTLM AUTH=LOGIN] Dovecot ready. > a login > a NO [AUTHENTICATIONFAILED] Authentication failed. > b logout > * BYE Logging out > b OK Logout completed. > > > - of course the proper credentials were put in..... > > > Here is the details of pam.d/imap: > > > # cat imap > # > # $FreeBSD: src/etc/pam.d/imap,v 1.7.10.1.6.1 2010/12/21 17:09:25 kensmith Exp $ > # > # PAM configuration for the "imap" service > # > > # auth > auth sufficient pam_winbind.so no_warn > try_first_pass debug > #auth sufficient pam_ssh.so no_warn try_first_pass > auth required pam_unix.so no_warn try_first_pass > > # account > #account required pam_nologin.so > account required pam_unix.so > #account required pam_winbind.so > > > I also attempted a change in pam.d/system: > > > # cat system > # > # $FreeBSD: src/etc/pam.d/system,v 1.1.32.1.6.1 2010/12/21 17:09:25 > kensmith Exp $ > # > # System-wide defaults > # > > # auth > auth sufficient pam_opie.so no_warn no_fake_prompts > auth requisite pam_opieaccess.so no_warn allow_local > auth sufficient pam_krb5.so no_warn try_first_pass > #auth sufficient pam_ssh.so no_warn try_first_pass > auth required pam_unix.so no_warn > try_first_pass nullok > > # account > account required pam_krb5.so > account required pam_login_access.so > account required pam_unix.so > > # session > #session optional pam_ssh.so > session required pam_lastlog.so no_fail > > # password > password sufficient pam_krb5.so no_warn try_first_pass > password required pam_unix.so no_warn try_first_pass > > > > Which don't let me login to the Dovecot service :-( > > > > The dovecot.log file shows this: > > > Jun 20 11:30:40 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4149 > uid=0 code=kill) > Jun 20 11:30:48 auth: Fatal: No passdbs specified in configuration > file. LOGIN mechanism needs one > Jun 20 11:30:48 master: Error: service(auth): command startup failed, > throttling for 2 secs > Jun 20 11:30:59 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4182 > uid=0 code=kill) > Jun 20 11:31:13 auth: Fatal: No passdbs specified in configuration > file. LOGIN mechanism needs one > Jun 20 11:31:13 master: Error: service(auth): command startup failed, > throttling for 2 secs > Jun 20 11:32:38 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4245 > uid=0 code=kill) > Jun 20 11:32:58 imap-login: Warning: Auth connection closed with 1 > pending requests (max 0 secs, pid=4265, EOF) > Jun 20 11:32:58 auth: Fatal: master: service(auth): child 4266 killed > with signal 11 (core not dumped - set service auth { > drop_priv_before_exec=yes }) > Jun 20 11:46:21 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4318 > uid=0 code=kill) > Jun 20 11:46:42 auth-worker(4340): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): > pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot > missing?) > Jun 20 11:46:55 auth: Error: Got NTLMSSP neg_flags=0xa2088207 > Jun 20 11:46:55 auth: Error: Got user=[] domain=[] > workstation=[WKS-42] len1=24 len2=270 > Jun 20 11:46:55 auth: Error: Login for user []\[]@[WKS-42] > failed due to [Reading winbind reply failed!] > Jun 20 11:49:47 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4400 > uid=0 code=kill) > Jun 20 11:49:53 auth: Fatal: passdb imap: Missing host parameter > Jun 20 11:49:53 master: Error: service(auth): command startup failed, > throttling for 2 secs > Jun 20 11:50:10 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4439 > uid=0 code=kill) > Jun 20 11:50:22 auth-worker(4461): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): > pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot > missing?) > Jun 20 11:51:19 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4479 > uid=0 code=kill) > Jun 20 11:52:14 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=4647 > uid=0 code=kill) > Jun 20 12:26:12 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=1349 > uid=0 code=kill) > Jun 20 12:26:32 auth-worker(1371): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): > pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot > missing?) > Jun 20 12:40:20 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=1436 > uid=0 code=kill) > Jun 20 12:40:39 auth-worker(1458): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): > pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot > missing?) > Jun 20 13:06:03 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=1653 > uid=0 code=kill) > Jun 20 13:07:37 auth-worker(1222): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): > pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot > missing?) > Jun 20 15:05:11 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=91263 > uid=0 code=kill) > Jun 22 10:02:03 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=38998 > uid=0 code=kill) > Jun 22 10:04:08 auth-worker(1229): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): > pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot > missing?) > Jun 22 10:10:47 master: Warning: Killed with signal 15 (by pid=1394 > uid=0 code=kill) > Jun 22 10:12:36 auth-worker(1218): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): > pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot > missing?) > Jun 22 10:20:57 auth-worker(1232): Error: pam(,127.0.0.1): > pam_authenticate() failed: authentication error (/etc/pam.d/dovecot > missing?) > > > > Can anybody help me with this? > > > Regards, > > > Kaya > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" hi, The log indicates its looking for /etc/pam.d/dovecot (instead of imap?) ..... maybe that's the issue. Waitman Gobble San Jose California USA From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 16:09:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B0C106567B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:09:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy6-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy6.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a6]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B6C558FC12 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:09:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 2388 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jun 2012 16:09:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by cpoproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2012 16:09:04 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=oSbvLAR1xs50KPQBmobXiHpsA4uAVS39Dyse/RPUTuA=; b=ZYzApJYF3iSkJzwt50qyUQCXWwIg1JfxMQ8y0ZDq04jVAVkKsQCOvFUz7zM8j8ynmkai55VIK7X0KfqswC9nxyR+qzkw5YLoo7naZiEDCwvPXotsA6L6XGR4r1ux6N+m; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=60793 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Si6Pw-00017o-8g for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:09:04 -0600 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:09:03 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: FreeBSD Questions Message-ID: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:09:06 -0000 I'm setting up a "new" backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used for backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by cron or other scheduled procedures. I'm trying to decide on what tools to use for managing backups. In the past I have used rsync, which has worked reasonably well, but fails one of my desired criteria for the new backup procedures, and is less than ideal for others. My criteria for procedures are: 1. They should minimize the need for additional software beyond the base system as much as reasonably possible. This means not only that I do not want to have to specify the installation of a bunch of stuff, but also that I do not want a bunch of dependencies pulled in with something I choose to install (if anything). Ideally, I should be able to do this with just the base system, though that seems unlikely at this point. 2. They should require only copyfree licensed or public domain tools -- no copyleft licensed tools, no proprietary licensed tools, no noncommercial or nonderivative licensed tools, and no "permissively" licensed tools where the license comes with annoying restrictions such as the Apache License requirements for specific bookkeeping procedures. I might bend on the requirement for non-copyfree "permissive" licenses if I have to, but I'd rather not; bending on any of the others would probably involve just giving up and going back to rsync. 3. They should provide for incremental backups. 4. They should provide for the ability to quickly and easily test backup integrity without restoring the backups anywhere, which most likely means some kind of checksum comparisons akin to what rsync provides. 5. They should allow for transferring data from the system to be backed up to the backup server via SSH. 6. They should use tools as simple as possible, preferably command line tools. 7. There should be documentation somewhere out there for how to set something like this up, someone willing to help me figure out how to get it set up, or an obvious path to setting it up so that I do not spend a week just figuring it all out, if at all possible. 8. They should preferably not require creating a local archive on the laptop before copying to the backup server if it can reasonably be avoided, so that a big chunk of empty HDD space will not need to be maintained for backups to work. Any help figuring out what tools would work for these purposes would be appreciated. I might be able to make exceptions for some parts of this if there are suitable alternative approaches. Thanks in advance for any help I can get in figuring this out. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 16:38:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DF5D1065676 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:38:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 038028FC20 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:38:28 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=NKL87DqwQSeuoJEJVsbaEO1bHZ6esBOjs89N3Is6mBw=; b=k0q+Ff9XT74QLNox/lgaQVW9DsDDRXTlfWzRjCe50YSHIJRrmbhlOKH5P0mUV1q5n+vtsOuLiX2RJZ4afAgFnRTfKV7ljToXdNxRZlWiwBQmY7Oye2olRmFRg06o+mKD; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Si6sN-000Haj-9T for freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:38:27 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340383106-94480-94479/5/46; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:38:26 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <201206221240.q5MCeVEF041711@mail.r-bonomi.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:38:26 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:38:28 -0000 On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:25:55 -0500, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > examples? All test shows that gcc code is not only bad, but very good. > Why are you just saying things you know isn't true? Fast code is not guaranteed to be correct code. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 17:41:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34CAB106567B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:41:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D73FA8FC08 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:41:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhq56 with SMTP id 56so1948516yhq.17 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:41:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=v5yetAT1JnB9M3IAj9TEYGuTkd7ubriooeSZj/akml0=; b=HVEBu6aekBmadfDpGzbr55uu7d34/roVQ8LCjAYASLBhmuqBU12rtOr/8p7ANU1QXN OuwbbvQI+3U1cM6gNO/X38SCF0CLeAh2Nb5kvaIYZa+zL3L05TMNAmv9DvINj8jrGB1x UlJm3/Cn3QErwvg9zhalIIOGJ7+naDn8PVq+c= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=v5yetAT1JnB9M3IAj9TEYGuTkd7ubriooeSZj/akml0=; b=hZsxFSLOGjfK7E35vofvMON9ct6JyvWt9a3dPPS1IJj27PdQVr12XWXuIrkLaeBOuL Zn98QnxVuwze4pp2g6xZhRIS6Dizvz4YFx6PhEClUOYZQTf7QUS0SN8kJtmQ0RJ95p+p rASmASt+xQHV5YWdYelkTakAwn7OuxUCk/G3f4Gph67iwaVkTAZT/aJZawqTCtBW2nGx bUpqtgNY8zUrYxhvQqxfcs5Ys1Ky/5p0d76WkOKTaR0zHCzqHZhq0LPcwWMLN3px8N5S srsMyj3xIfF9BxIE9pt3/n2Rzy0XJ99Jye+36/MqAQMrkLLMzCuUtfFmE/Nuo4EOWsBu DfGQ== Received: by 10.60.1.165 with SMTP id 5mr2789906oen.36.1340386872224; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:41:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.125.70 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:40:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Eitan Adler Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:40:41 -0700 Message-ID: To: Fred Morcos Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQllS3PynVuc3PxDBBcrxlKCoYCEHy5TheZ3AXU8Cb8Bh/6rZ/i97856sDaxLNY+YyI2qloa Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Walter Hurry Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:41:13 -0000 On 21 June 2012 04:24, Fred Morcos wrote: > > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Int= roduction and background > q) Is it possible to run a FreeBSD system without much building? In > other words, can I survive by depending on packages and only resorting > to ports when really needed? To an extent. It is currently possible to use only packages, but they tend to be out of date and upgrading is non-easy without a third party tool (such as portmaster or portupgrade). There is currently active work to fix these issues in a project called pkgng. This will likely become the default in the next couple of months. > q) Where does the FreeBSD project stand on this matter? From what I > noticed is that the base system seems to adhere to the tranditional > flat text files for configuration and simple tools that do a good job, > leaving it up to the user to combine those small tools to create > larger, more complex ones (a UNIX inheritance). FreeBSD tends to be conservative. The project won't implement a complex daemon without clear benefits and specific discussion on the pros and cons. > q) Is a FreeBSD stable base system with "current" high-level > components possible? Will it avoid the issues I experienced on > Linux-based systems? Generally, yes. There will likely be some adjustment period as you learn how FreeBSD works, but most people have few problems. > q) I would assume UFS with J+SU is "fast enough" for a laptop? Yes. Most people call it "SU+J" ;). Don't use it for an SSD though > q) Does ZFS make sense on a laptop? Any advantages of using it over > USF with J+SU? I am not interested in any striping or mirroring on > the laptops, but the compression features is very attractive for the > HDDs in the first laptop. ZFS is ram hog. How much ram does your laptop have? > q) The second laptop has an SSD, would UFS with/without J and > with/without SU or ZFS make more sense for it? Make sure to enable TRIM support if your SSD supports it. > q) Can I live with a desktop environment (Gnome or KDE) and desktop > applications (Firefox, Libreoffice, etc) by relying only on packages? Sort of. With pkgng this will become a lot easier. If you are currently willing to deal with out of date packages until pkgng becomes default (or want to work with non-default technology now) it will be possible. > q) Does the NVIDIA binary driver work reliably? I would like to hear > personal experiences with that. Yes. This has never been the cause of any problem for me > q) Does the bsdinstall align partitions to device blocks by default > for optimal speed? If not, I have found that I can use gpart with -a > and -b which will require me to calculate the start and end offsets of > each partition manually. Is there a tool that can automatically do > that for me? You said you had an SSD: it doesn't matter. > q) Adding tmpmfs=3D"YES" to /etc/rc.conf is analogous to a tmpfs /tmp on > Linux-based systems, correct? Yes. > Any other directories that might make > sense to have as an mfs (ie, in /var)? Don't use tmpfs for anything in /var > q) Is there a place where all sysctl variables are documented? It > occurred to me when I was trying to find the memory usage on my system > but `sysctl -a | grep mem' shows a whole bunch of stuff. You can try sysctl -ad but most of the systls are either documented in man pages or not at all. :( > q) How can I set proxy settings system-wide? Same for PACKAGESITE (for > the pkg_* tools), how can I set a mirror system-wide? /etc/profile? Same as any other unix system. It depends on what shell you use. > q) I noticed all file/data-sizes are in bytes (ls, dd, etc), is there > a way to change that system-wide to be in human-readable format? usually adding -h (for "human") helps. Also try setting BLOCKSIZE. each program might have some more explanation in the man page. > > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0System > > To assess my understanding, the system is split into kernel, base, > documentation, games, lib32 (on 64-bit systems) and ports. This distinction is rarely used. The only place that cares for these differences is the installer. > There is > another split between base and ports where base includes everything > previously mentioned minus ports. This is the one that matters >Now, there are 3 "branches" of the > base system: RELEASE, STABLE and CURRENT. RELEASE means 9.0 and stays > that way until 10.0 is released. STABLE means 9.0, 9.1, 9.2, > etc. CURRENT means "trunk" in SVN terms. Is all that correct? This is incorrect. RELEASE are all releases: There is 9.0, 9.1, 9.2, etc. STABLE is a misnomer: it is a *development* branch but the ABI / KPI is kept stable. CURRENT is "HEAD" and where new commits go before being "MFCed" or Merged From Current to -stable. Releases are branched from -STABLE. -STABLE is branched from -HEAD. > Also, > when somewhere is mentioned `make world', this means to rebuild all > installed ports which doesn't include base, I assume? "make world" is always wrong. "make buildworld" is closer. In source land "world" is everything but the kernel. Ports are not related. > q) The files in /etc/rc.d are all executable, from my understanding, > those files will get executed and it is their duty to check the > variable `_enable' for whether they should start or > not. Wouldn't it be more efficient to chmod -x or +x them to > disable/enable? For a variety of reasons, no. They do more than just check *_enable in complex cases. > q) Is there a tool that can test a set of mirrors for connection time > and speed (for packages and ports)? Analogous to Archlinux's > rankmirrors? looks in ports-mgmt/ there is fastestmirrors or something like that. I ran it once and forgot about it ;) > q) Is it possible for the pkg_* tools (especially pkg_add -r) to > display progress? no. > q) I noticed in the ports collection that there were some outdated > packages (skype-2.2, gimp-2.6), should I report that and where? (A > PR?) skype is out of date cause the newer ones don't work. Generally, reporting out of date ports as PRs with patches (or to ports@freebsd.org without patches might help) is a good thing. Larger ports tend to be actively maintained. For gimp try asking gnome@freebsd.org for progress. > q) Is it possible to have the ports system compile into an mfs (to > avoid disk access)? Yes. Set WRKDIRPREFIX in /etc/make.conf to a mfs disk > q) Is it possible to have the user asked to change their password the > first time they log in (using an OTP) in a simple way? I looked at > OPIE but it seems to be much more complex than what I need. Look at pw -e ? Hope I helped and didn't disappoint too much :) --=20 Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 17:44:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D567C1065670; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:44:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamesbrandongooch@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D17D8FC0A; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:44:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so2075133yen.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:44:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=deziI87c0FAdXgQf9Mi40An8riGdBSfP1DQRYbOcrcQ=; b=dCqpnxrUxo8JVnRIxM2Ef87DV6g10ZHu9TvO5vXM2QzaWw3NkuAUSJsyE9QDpaKNh9 fpQ5yxkKPOWY3NMjPo9uDBml6VOzbqZ29BCsrP1c7eINenUPLyS/ywPJG78p05QMPvqZ PlTQcj35FL8/pAVZKKrAUTjWtZaH5VPrvdTycRXi8poVG15MUEDU1LjrD0LjvPAa9oUe 0VBVpGEiXqFLHXyZolWO45OFGOjx0urodzkNssKYdslgJ1PNqjyL/c54O5aicm5+Suqt f7F9SsgblCJgEAEb6co8BM8dFimnIIV4sKrXXbgT8YbsBc03iXNbKzw55shL8Bim8fvP GmpA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.18.114 with SMTP id v18mr2837105oed.34.1340387037648; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.145.235 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:43:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FE40A42.6010503@zedat.fu-berlin.de> References: <4FE40A42.6010503@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:43:57 -0500 Message-ID: From: Brandon Gooch To: "O. Hartmann" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Current FreeBSD , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:44:07 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 1:01 AM, O. Hartmann wrote: > I have a USB drive/stick, Lexar USB Flash drive as reported by FreeBSD > shown below. > When first used, I was able to put approx. 30 GB of data on it - it was > visible to FreeBSD 9 and 10 as expected. > A Linux system at the lab was also capable of recognizing it. After > that, I tried to operate on the stick on a Notebook, FreeBSD 9, and > another station, FreeBSD 10. But FreeBSD didn't recognize the USB drive > anymore - sometimes, but this seems to be a gambling issue :-( > > Trying Linux on different hardware platforms and even those machines > prior not recognizing the USB drive do recognize the drive as Lexar USB > Flash drive with 64GB. That is Suse Linux (some 12.XX), that is Ubuntu > 12.04, that is Windows 7 Pro/x64. I can format the drive, I can push and > pull data from it. > > So, since the USB drive won't work with three different FreeBSD boxes > (one running 9-STABLE, two 10-CURRENT, all systems most recent sources > and buildworld from a day ago). > I suspect either a weird configuration issue I use on all platforms in > questions in common triggering the weird beviour - or FreeBSD is simply > incapable of handling the 64GB drive. I do not have issues with USB > drives with capacities of 32, 8 or 4 GB of different brands. > > As shown in the portion of the dmesg below, the USB drive is recognized > physically. It doesn't matter whether USB port I use (I tried all > available on all boxes and in most cases I use a Dell UltraSharp powered > in-screen HUB). Since other OSes handle the drive as expected, I exclude > hardware issues. > > All FreeBSD in common is the fact I use the new device ahaci/device ata > CAM/ATA scheme with devcie scbus in the kernel (I use custom kernels!). > > Apart from trying a GENERIC kernel (which is next I will do this > weekend), does anyone have similar experiences and probably solutions? > > Regards, > oh > > ugen7.6: at usbus7 > umass1: on usbus7 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Error 5, Retries exhausted > I see similar behavior and output on my Dell M6500 notebook running CURRENT, but only on two ports which are some type of hybrid USB 2.0/3.0 (configurable via BIOS setting). If I use either of these ports with a USB 2.0 device while running the ports in USB 3.0 mode (using xhci(4)), I can't reliably get a device to properly attach. I say reliably, because every once in a while, I can plug a device in and it works fine, even multiple times and after reboots. If I configure these ports to run in USB 2.0 mode (using ehci(4)), all of my USB 2.0 devices seem to work without fail. However, USB 3.0 devices do not attach on these ports when they are configured as USB 2.0 ports. So, at least on my notebook, these ports must be configured at either 2.0 or 3.0, depending on which device I plan on using :( I have one other port on this same system that is USB 2.0-only, and it works all of the time :) I'll have to try and add a hub into the mix to see if perhaps it is a power issue (although with a recent Linux kernel and Windows 7, all is well no matter what configuration I provide). It may be that FreeBSD's USB subsystem lacks some extra bit of code required to configure the ports properly in regard to power. -Brandon From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 18:19:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C0A5106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:19:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@m.gmane.org) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9D988FC15 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:19:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Si8Rx-0002mp-4P for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:19:17 +0200 Received: from cpc3-walt15-2-0-cust148.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com ([86.21.186.149]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:19:17 +0200 Received: from walterhurry by cpc3-walt15-2-0-cust148.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:19:17 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Walter Hurry Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:19:06 +0000 (UTC) Lines: 15 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: cpc3-walt15-2-0-cust148.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com User-Agent: Pan/0.135 (Tomorrow I'll Wake Up and Scald Myself with Tea; GIT 30dc37b master) Subject: Sendmail and Postfix X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:19:28 -0000 A little digging around has revealed that there are two 'mailq' executables on my system: /usr/local/bin/mailq and /usr/bin/mailq. The first is part of the mail/postfix-current port which I have installed and use, and the second is presumably part of Sendmail, which I have not installed and do not use. It seems that Sendmail is embedded somehow in the base system. What is the 'approved' way to get rid of /usr/bin/mailq? Or better, remove Sendmail? Sorry if this is a newbie question; I am as yet relatively unfamiliar with FreeBSD, being a refugee from GNU/Linux. This is FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE, by the way. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 18:34:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E61251065793 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:34:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gobble.wa@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CC1B8FC19 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:34:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so1968928wgb.31 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:34:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=EPnsxcjazSkYvwgBnxO/TsrmZY6GmKhtkemtOpPEzVs=; b=iMCIHqZx0WUK34rBjHs/w9WDzlbfW626u109jNGicC3lpSyd8VdBhHl4CJ5jzhrBB/ ZVYsIYJBQ7CmyArqbKy0vVrbIoHTNqzHTNI+QckZZ+iIimh6BUniC/0skadywjHjmp5L SUR1ypYFIo+o4AD8y5b5Awr+2hyGl1su6QAG4W94R0iNTsgfTpWHiNvz9QLhC2lk2DJC ID+2rnk9rZrGMIeNhyPJ9LQwDTqsHZPv8xcNqBmoKFBISbdfQHwTTjcH6885y8qb0sY4 oV0pfeVrcB32LA/RHw2y2MfZz7graRybN2hpJ2P1mr/FFznsceT1vHeOpr3NzDjvzdhe hPqQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.92.8 with SMTP id ci8mr7068548wib.15.1340390080610; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.138.220 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.138.220 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:34:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FE40A42.6010503@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:34:40 -0700 Message-ID: From: Waitman Gobble To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:34:42 -0000 On Jun 22, 2012 10:45 AM, "Brandon Gooch" wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 1:01 AM, O. Hartmann > wrote: > > I have a USB drive/stick, Lexar USB Flash drive as reported by FreeBSD > > shown below. > > When first used, I was able to put approx. 30 GB of data on it - it was > > visible to FreeBSD 9 and 10 as expected. > > A Linux system at the lab was also capable of recognizing it. After > > that, I tried to operate on the stick on a Notebook, FreeBSD 9, and > > another station, FreeBSD 10. But FreeBSD didn't recognize the USB drive > > anymore - sometimes, but this seems to be a gambling issue :-( > > > > Trying Linux on different hardware platforms and even those machines > > prior not recognizing the USB drive do recognize the drive as Lexar USB > > Flash drive with 64GB. That is Suse Linux (some 12.XX), that is Ubuntu > > 12.04, that is Windows 7 Pro/x64. I can format the drive, I can push and > > pull data from it. > > > > So, since the USB drive won't work with three different FreeBSD boxes > > (one running 9-STABLE, two 10-CURRENT, all systems most recent sources > > and buildworld from a day ago). > > I suspect either a weird configuration issue I use on all platforms in > > questions in common triggering the weird beviour - or FreeBSD is simply > > incapable of handling the 64GB drive. I do not have issues with USB > > drives with capacities of 32, 8 or 4 GB of different brands. > > > > As shown in the portion of the dmesg below, the USB drive is recognized > > physically. It doesn't matter whether USB port I use (I tried all > > available on all boxes and in most cases I use a Dell UltraSharp powered > > in-screen HUB). Since other OSes handle the drive as expected, I exclude > > hardware issues. > > > > All FreeBSD in common is the fact I use the new device ahaci/device ata > > CAM/ATA scheme with devcie scbus in the kernel (I use custom kernels!). > > > > Apart from trying a GENERIC kernel (which is next I will do this > > weekend), does anyone have similar experiences and probably solutions? > > > > Regards, > > oh > > > > ugen7.6: at usbus7 > > umass1: on usbus7 > > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command > > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 > > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error > > (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Error 5, Retries exhausted > > > > I see similar behavior and output on my Dell M6500 notebook running > CURRENT, but only on two ports which are some type of hybrid USB > 2.0/3.0 (configurable via BIOS setting). > > If I use either of these ports with a USB 2.0 device while running the > ports in USB 3.0 mode (using xhci(4)), I can't reliably get a device > to properly attach. I say reliably, because every once in a while, I > can plug a device in and it works fine, even multiple times and after > reboots. > > If I configure these ports to run in USB 2.0 mode (using ehci(4)), all > of my USB 2.0 devices seem to work without fail. However, USB 3.0 > devices do not attach on these ports when they are configured as USB > 2.0 ports. > > So, at least on my notebook, these ports must be configured at either > 2.0 or 3.0, depending on which device I plan on using :( > > I have one other port on this same system that is USB 2.0-only, and it > works all of the time :) > > I'll have to try and add a hub into the mix to see if perhaps it is a > power issue (although with a recent Linux kernel and Windows 7, all is > well no matter what configuration I provide). It may be that FreeBSD's > USB subsystem lacks some extra bit of code required to configure the > ports properly in regard to power. > > -Brandon > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" There are 3 drivers, one for 3.0, 2.0 and 1.0, and they are associated to corresponding devices at boot. I'll play around with it this weekend and see how to switch, i've also noticed issue connecting 2.0 device to 3.0 port. Waitman Gobble San Jose California USA From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 18:40:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 637A1106566C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:40:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6EC48FC18 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:40:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.187.76.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5MIe2TG006016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:40:02 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q5MIe2TG006016 Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/q5MIe2TG006016; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none Message-ID: <4FE4BBFB.4080107@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:39:55 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Walter Hurry References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigF4CA07D129E050A0B478F38A" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.5 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sendmail and Postfix X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:40:07 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigF4CA07D129E050A0B478F38A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 22/06/2012 19:19, Walter Hurry wrote: > It seems that Sendmail is embedded somehow in the base system. What is = > the 'approved' way to get rid of /usr/bin/mailq? Or better, remove=20 > Sendmail? You don't need to remove the base system sendmail. All you need to do is set up /etc/mail/mailer.conf properly -- and installing the postfix port should do that for you -- and then any reference to /usr/sbin/sendmail, /usr/bin/mailq, usr/bin/hoststat etc. will run postfix instead. It's really very nicely done. See mailer.conf(5) Cheers, Matthew PS. Alright, yes. You can prevent sendmail from being built as part of the base system by defining 'WITHOUT_SENDMAIL=3Dyes' in /etc/src.conf, bu= t this supposes that you want to build the system yourself, rather than using, say, freebsd-update(8). See src.conf(5) and read in /usr/src/UPDATING and the Handbook about the procedure for building the system from source. --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey --------------enigF4CA07D129E050A0B478F38A Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/kvAIACgkQ8Mjk52CukIyWgQCfQ/ITM+/YJDXFoLyaEiWwY5Ij LdIAn1V2VJkUCUYLQZUE49oO93nMRVT1 =tKr+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigF4CA07D129E050A0B478F38A-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 18:41:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5173E106566C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:41:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 282DB8FC14 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:41:48 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=S1YDIpf/PVnjyLe1pwhWzKZA35AaJ17GbU24ggHfV7k=; b=lPbusRdrSAOHsJsdmb0gbWb6fanoVKHx1vd2Y+IxjTkXxYVuGhkC9G7IKqentVFBoLISwH2xbwegoSn97Gdq8hZ24eq+k8DotiCzo41GY5bVKcBe+/qe5wj/R6uEmA/N; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Si8nj-000MI1-Cf for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:41:47 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1340390506-94480-94479/5/48; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:41:46 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:41:46 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Subject: Re: Sendmail and Postfix X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:41:48 -0000 When you installed Postfix did you allow it to update the entries in /etc/mail/mailer.conf ? If so, I wouldn't worry about the mailq binary that came with the system; it's ignored. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 18:44:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C74C1065672 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:44:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA3B98FC19 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:44:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.187.76.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5MIiZG2006130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:44:36 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q5MIiZG2006130 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infracaninophile.co.uk; s=201001-infracaninophile; t=1340390676; bh=SZ02UJ+X4xEmhw523XWkzjATOWmM3BvJguWYhL6BOX8=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Message-ID:Mime-Version; b=v85eMhrnnI7siIBL/FHcmkRssVwjzKmFvHCWC/eTPL2y28Axu+yJ2Yp60jzOxyB12 FXzq0/5cBqEPKJlepu4fNPyk53i7NOsaCYmaKLLAF6Bc/9ddhZeKx0RVlZRPqt9+uN gw1dbdi//KL2YPipoad4ZvmXSWyVMX4LA9A1fDY4= Message-ID: <4FE4BD13.3000204@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:44:35 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eitan Adler References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=60AE908C Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigB904A264B8AE212E00414DED" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.5 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_ALL,DKIM_SIGNED,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=no version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Fred Morcos , Walter Hurry Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:44:41 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigB904A264B8AE212E00414DED Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 22/06/2012 18:40, Eitan Adler wrote: >> q) Is there a place where all sysctl variables are documented? It >> > occurred to me when I was trying to find the memory usage on my syst= em >> > but `sysctl -a | grep mem' shows a whole bunch of stuff. > You can try sysctl -ad but most of the systls are either documented in > man pages or not at all. :( It would be a really handy thing if the output of 'sysctl -d' told you what man page to refer to for more information. A neat little project but pretty boring to implement. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate JID: matthew@infracaninophile.co.uk Kent, CT11 9PW --------------enigB904A264B8AE212E00414DED Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/kvRMACgkQ8Mjk52CukIxicACfXP+sjdS3rSNhVLCn/K+Y96fN Zf0An3CXQCQ6A0amxtp91Lw539uO1WkV =qulN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigB904A264B8AE212E00414DED-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 18:48:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50696106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:48:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rsmith@xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr6.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr6.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3C458FC08 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:48:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from slackbox.erewhon.net (slackbox.xs4all.nl [213.84.242.160]) by smtp-vbr6.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q5MIleNk019286 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:47:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from rsmith@xs4all.nl) Received: by slackbox.erewhon.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B2CA112346; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:47:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:47:40 +0200 From: Roland Smith To: FreeBSD Questions Message-ID: <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> X-GPG-Fingerprint: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 X-GPG-Key: http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/pubkey.txt X-GPG-Notice: If this message is not signed, don't assume I sent it! User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:48:18 -0000 --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:09:03AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: > I'm setting up a "new" backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used for > backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any > kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by > cron or other scheduled procedures. What are the laptops running? Roland --=20 R.F.Smith http://rsmith.home.xs4all.nl/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/kvcwACgkQEnfvsMMhpyU8JwCePRJpf19fR3A9oyLsJqWsrQUd VukAn05OhJ2Oi0NDOPYO6dEwDwpuDbL3 =GC0m -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 18:51:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E940B1065677 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:51:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brian@brianwhalen.net) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47FA18FC18 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:51:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so4870575lbo.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:51:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=JFhDmcXPOskE3m7DABnaxpj/Qjkk/VANrWY6Goq9ph4=; b=DU1lAB2mbd7lWXM0XDMvzteR0j0xVKjxW8n2nzJZSsq26o7rxd16a2pMpG7aRIbgr1 8p3McGeEzMqP9/W5gBJSxX/TYprKFxighxDoqmRF9cPT18qkQflVftkLKwyE/poasVC+ a+ucaToMVttauFu/keTCPaMwYTmWmgdDMPAE/HwC4s7BJ6fs1OR/50BBpM7/RKvFiwC7 u2uJBk6sIurhHfDtaTvqV5M/ODxnR93xcVjVeprzM1rYexiyfvYID+RD4EoN6j2elzUt Kkifih1U1ZeWi4nveZVxvFNJNiXjFhWHjgOulFQU2ftlaFgyAj1VN/TjDk0EMwqTUECg znyw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.48.2 with SMTP id h2mr1925718lbn.61.1340391076217; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.62.37 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:51:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [174.251.210.247] Received: by 10.114.62.37 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:51:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FE4BBFB.4080107@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FE4BBFB.4080107@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:51:16 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Brian W." To: Matthew Seaman X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkwgRaNSQnqboKLApUGi/3p/ASwqTQCQHsYWWsuVm5XrdhU5LAHzGIRm00nf6D9JGN8oGL0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Walter Hurry Subject: Re: Sendmail and Postfix X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:51:18 -0000 During subsequent system upgrades, of you build from source, you should watch out for thus during the mergemaster piece. Brian On Jun 22, 2012 11:44 AM, "Matthew Seaman" wrote: > On 22/06/2012 19:19, Walter Hurry wrote: > > It seems that Sendmail is embedded somehow in the base system. What is > > the 'approved' way to get rid of /usr/bin/mailq? Or better, remove > > Sendmail? > > You don't need to remove the base system sendmail. All you need to do > is set up /etc/mail/mailer.conf properly -- and installing the postfix > port should do that for you -- and then any reference to > /usr/sbin/sendmail, /usr/bin/mailq, usr/bin/hoststat etc. will run > postfix instead. It's really very nicely done. > > See mailer.conf(5) > > Cheers, > > Matthew > > PS. Alright, yes. You can prevent sendmail from being built as part of > the base system by defining 'WITHOUT_SENDMAIL=yes' in /etc/src.conf, but > this supposes that you want to build the system yourself, rather than > using, say, freebsd-update(8). See src.conf(5) and read in > /usr/src/UPDATING and the Handbook about the procedure for building the > system from source. > > -- > Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. > PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey > > > > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 18:57:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA3C106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:57:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lokadamus@gmx.de) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BAE1A8FC16 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:57:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 22 Jun 2012 18:57:04 -0000 Received: from d071218.adsl.hansenet.de (EHLO FBSD.lokilan) [80.171.71.218] by mail.gmx.net (mp028) with SMTP; 22 Jun 2012 20:57:04 +0200 X-Authenticated: #3333826 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+/uFBu3+e/4P40AFowhQxunaf3AEzIPmdPObyVzz LGMswO3y27QxV/ Message-ID: <4FE4BFFB.60508@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:56:59 +0200 From: "lokadamus@gmx.de" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120505 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: Subject: How can i disable cups, docbook, gutenprint and other ports? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:57:09 -0000 Hi all, How can i disable cups, docbook and other ports from compiling after port update? I have no printer and no use of cups or docbook. *Sorry for my english* Greetings From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 19:13:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB4B5106566C; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:13:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vrwmiller@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65E488FC12; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:13:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so3019520obb.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:13:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=TR9zc5773MxJtqmzECyo0dnO/hWOqkr9cU+n3GjJ7WU=; b=nEd4CvoY9vTJRQUc7nOpOSpdQJuiqq6prudVyGBV75n6+xIlhgoTxeFdDt8kXg8FrN 1YidiwQMBqXU8sap+UU65dAWIz0VtYBb8zoIkrrYSqoXw5VL9IhxBOwuOtYoGx0FtsQ2 /bomHcf35VBknsXeL4ocucYH3h6VN+giGNMbq5PzpjYf1afP8pGHCWN2LqKOgnVB4inJ k5M99V9vWo4BzwVts3O7wyk51xFPRDy2Wy5C2kHdh86bS/RT9v4IG8Oi1Ye/wAjOYfid zDeD5ybTzqnhxOJ46UsLMklVDMkLu4xv6BPYC7SaAEot8AzEqwqqyW9gB5Zh6dq2G6UF U79g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.47.66 with SMTP id b2mr3112980obn.2.1340392433744; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Sender: vrwmiller@gmail.com Received: by 10.182.10.34 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:13:53 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: yNGpSVH2K7o2ZvfIa9MjSQ5ttk4 Message-ID: From: Rick Miller To: FreeBSD Questions , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Subject: Intel X520-DA2 Supported in stable/8? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:13:54 -0000 Hi All, Wondering if the Intel X520-DA2 10G Fibre NIC is supported in stable/8. Hardware notes don't specify it, but I have a system up and the interfaces appear to be loaded by the ix driver. However, status indicates "no carrier". -- Take care Rick Miller From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 19:28:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC2D01065703 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:28:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gobble.wa@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 614778FC14 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:28:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so2010034wgb.31 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:28:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=QgRcEA5LUGCn9M5rsG+k1/u6SO0+0IHLqbkdTITGZps=; b=y2lFTttGet7wuV47vNeMdlMq3hT4TprJBhpbXTlSe3coJ0dMIGz4jvqRWM3zE+K2TW KqXnBTbjYDi4UnoZ/JOnHay+KwsU5d/a3UNcwgJjfpUJqf8iY5jLNiKmOW+s+JKILfvB EXaSKzwZLs7cn2cuOMIOm/SBnBMTLAU3qYHuuWA4kP+ubjgHSxjeIKyJPN1Fuz91yGSo ibfiEswygb/ncDP8WEb4DKWKBe3mzT+aoy0TrlyW2Ndtxrs3HfwZN79EU0rdUVWPVl+f ZXPWurdTkQ2PS6GRIOAuq3lbzM8AeIvCJo1uKECHVgBLMD6Ed9uNOk8Jnv9b0mwHUgyH LJgQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.19.138 with SMTP id f10mr6910042wie.19.1340393335553; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.138.220 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.138.220 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:28:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:28:55 -0700 Message-ID: From: Waitman Gobble To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:28:57 -0000 On Jun 22, 2012 10:42 AM, "Eitan Adler" wrote: > > On 21 June 2012 04:24, Fred Morcos wrote: > > > > Introduction and background > > q) Is it possible to run a FreeBSD system without much building? In > > other words, can I survive by depending on packages and only resorting > > to ports when really needed? > > To an extent. It is currently possible to use only packages, but they > tend to be out of date and upgrading is non-easy without a third party > tool (such as portmaster or portupgrade). > There is currently active work to fix these issues in a project called > pkgng. This will likely become the default in the next couple of > months. > > > q) Where does the FreeBSD project stand on this matter? From what I > > noticed is that the base system seems to adhere to the tranditional > > flat text files for configuration and simple tools that do a good job, > > leaving it up to the user to combine those small tools to create > > larger, more complex ones (a UNIX inheritance). > > FreeBSD tends to be conservative. The project won't implement a > complex daemon without clear benefits and specific discussion on the > pros and cons. > > > q) Is a FreeBSD stable base system with "current" high-level > > components possible? Will it avoid the issues I experienced on > > Linux-based systems? > > Generally, yes. There will likely be some adjustment period as you > learn how FreeBSD works, but most people have few problems. > > > q) I would assume UFS with J+SU is "fast enough" for a laptop? > > Yes. Most people call it "SU+J" ;). > Don't use it for an SSD though > > > q) Does ZFS make sense on a laptop? Any advantages of using it over > > USF with J+SU? I am not interested in any striping or mirroring on > > the laptops, but the compression features is very attractive for the > > HDDs in the first laptop. > > ZFS is ram hog. How much ram does your laptop have? > > > q) The second laptop has an SSD, would UFS with/without J and > > with/without SU or ZFS make more sense for it? > > Make sure to enable TRIM support if your SSD supports it. > > > q) Can I live with a desktop environment (Gnome or KDE) and desktop > > applications (Firefox, Libreoffice, etc) by relying only on packages? > > Sort of. With pkgng this will become a lot easier. If you are > currently willing to deal with out of date packages until pkgng > becomes default (or want to work with non-default technology now) it > will be possible. > > > q) Does the NVIDIA binary driver work reliably? I would like to hear > > personal experiences with that. > > Yes. This has never been the cause of any problem for me > > > q) Does the bsdinstall align partitions to device blocks by default > > for optimal speed? If not, I have found that I can use gpart with -a > > and -b which will require me to calculate the start and end offsets of > > each partition manually. Is there a tool that can automatically do > > that for me? > > You said you had an SSD: it doesn't matter. > > > q) Adding tmpmfs="YES" to /etc/rc.conf is analogous to a tmpfs /tmp on > > Linux-based systems, correct? > > Yes. > > > Any other directories that might make > > sense to have as an mfs (ie, in /var)? > > Don't use tmpfs for anything in /var > > > q) Is there a place where all sysctl variables are documented? It > > occurred to me when I was trying to find the memory usage on my system > > but `sysctl -a | grep mem' shows a whole bunch of stuff. > > You can try sysctl -ad but most of the systls are either documented in > man pages or not at all. :( > > > q) How can I set proxy settings system-wide? Same for PACKAGESITE (for > > the pkg_* tools), how can I set a mirror system-wide? /etc/profile? > > Same as any other unix system. It depends on what shell you use. > > > q) I noticed all file/data-sizes are in bytes (ls, dd, etc), is there > > a way to change that system-wide to be in human-readable format? > > usually adding -h (for "human") helps. Also try setting BLOCKSIZE. > each program might have some more explanation in the man page. > > > > > System > > > > To assess my understanding, the system is split into kernel, base, > > documentation, games, lib32 (on 64-bit systems) and ports. > > This distinction is rarely used. The only place that cares for these > differences is the installer. > > > There is > > another split between base and ports where base includes everything > > previously mentioned minus ports. > > This is the one that matters > > >Now, there are 3 "branches" of the > > base system: RELEASE, STABLE and CURRENT. RELEASE means 9.0 and stays > > that way until 10.0 is released. STABLE means 9.0, 9.1, 9.2, > > etc. CURRENT means "trunk" in SVN terms. Is all that correct? > > This is incorrect. > > RELEASE are all releases: There is 9.0, 9.1, 9.2, etc. > STABLE is a misnomer: it is a *development* branch but the ABI / KPI > is kept stable. > CURRENT is "HEAD" and where new commits go before being "MFCed" or > Merged From Current to -stable. Releases are branched from -STABLE. > -STABLE is branched from -HEAD. > > > Also, > > when somewhere is mentioned `make world', this means to rebuild all > > installed ports which doesn't include base, I assume? > > "make world" is always wrong. "make buildworld" is closer. > In source land "world" is everything but the kernel. Ports are not related. > > > > q) The files in /etc/rc.d are all executable, from my understanding, > > those files will get executed and it is their duty to check the > > variable `_enable' for whether they should start or > > not. Wouldn't it be more efficient to chmod -x or +x them to > > disable/enable? > > For a variety of reasons, no. They do more than just check *_enable in > complex cases. > > > q) Is there a tool that can test a set of mirrors for connection time > > and speed (for packages and ports)? Analogous to Archlinux's > > rankmirrors? > > looks in ports-mgmt/ there is fastestmirrors or something like that. I > ran it once and forgot about it ;) > > > q) Is it possible for the pkg_* tools (especially pkg_add -r) to > > display progress? > > no. > > > q) I noticed in the ports collection that there were some outdated > > packages (skype-2.2, gimp-2.6), should I report that and where? (A > > PR?) > > skype is out of date cause the newer ones don't work. > Generally, reporting out of date ports as PRs with patches (or to > ports@freebsd.org without patches might help) is a good thing. > > Larger ports tend to be actively maintained. For gimp try asking > gnome@freebsd.org for progress. > > > q) Is it possible to have the ports system compile into an mfs (to > > avoid disk access)? > > Yes. Set WRKDIRPREFIX in /etc/make.conf to a mfs disk > > > q) Is it possible to have the user asked to change their password the > > first time they log in (using an OTP) in a simple way? I looked at > > OPIE but it seems to be much more complex than what I need. > > Look at pw -e ? > > > Hope I helped and didn't disappoint too much :) > > -- > Eitan Adler > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" packages in /current/Latest are generrally up to date, sometimes trail ports a couple of days. its quite easy to pkg_delete --force and pkg_add new version to upgrade... i've been doing this for some time without problems. its trivial to make a python script to check for latest version avail and upgrade, i haven't timed it but 700 or so package updates take about 30 mins.. i look forward to pkgng, on low power devices build from ports can take a week and then some. :) Waitman Gobble San Jose California USA From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 19:29:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26B0E1065672 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:29:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cswiger@mac.com) Received: from nk11p00mm-asmtp010.mac.com (nk11p00mm-asmtp010.mac.com [17.158.161.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A9048FC1C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:29:46 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Received: from cswiger1.apple.com (unknown [17.209.4.71]) by nk11p00mm-asmtp010.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-23.01(7.0.4.23.0) 64bit (built Aug 10 2011)) with ESMTPSA id <0M6100FA57DFRJ80@nk11p00mm-asmtp010.mac.com> for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:29:40 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.7.7855,1.0.260,0.0.0000 definitions=2012-06-22_04:2012-06-22, 2012-06-22, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=6.0.2-1203120001 definitions=main-1206220204 From: Chuck Swiger In-reply-to: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:29:39 -0700 Message-id: <0035DF17-28B9-4A94-B75A-F483926B2A9E@mac.com> References: To: Walter Hurry X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sendmail and Postfix X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:29:46 -0000 Hi-- On Jun 22, 2012, at 11:19 AM, Walter Hurry wrote: > A little digging around has revealed that there are two 'mailq' > executables on my system: /usr/local/bin/mailq and /usr/bin/mailq. > > The first is part of the mail/postfix-current port which I have installed > and use, and the second is presumably part of Sendmail, which I have not > installed and do not use. > > It seems that Sendmail is embedded somehow in the base system. What is > the 'approved' way to get rid of /usr/bin/mailq? Or better, remove > Sendmail? BSD Unixes have shipped with Sendmail for decades, much as BIND is also included-- so yes, Sendmail is included with the base system by default. The approved way is to simply leave things be. Properly written software will honor the links setup by mailwrapper(8) and use the Postfix MTA which you installed instead: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/mail-changingmta.html If you really want to remove sendmail entirely, you can rebuild FreeBSD with NO_SENDMAIL=TRUE ...set in /etc/make.conf, which will avoid building sendmail at all. Regards, -- -Chuck From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 19:33:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DB631065695 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:33:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@m.gmane.org) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21C668FC12 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:33:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Si9bV-0002x8-W4 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:33:13 +0200 Received: from cpc3-walt15-2-0-cust148.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com ([86.21.186.149]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:33:13 +0200 Received: from walterhurry by cpc3-walt15-2-0-cust148.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:33:13 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Walter Hurry Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:33:03 +0000 (UTC) Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: cpc3-walt15-2-0-cust148.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com User-Agent: Pan/0.135 (Tomorrow I'll Wake Up and Scald Myself with Tea; GIT 30dc37b master) Subject: Re: Sendmail and Postfix X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:33:17 -0000 On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:41:46 -0500, Mark Felder wrote: > When you installed Postfix did you allow it to update the entries in > /etc/mail/mailer.conf ? If so, I wouldn't worry about the mailq binary > that came with the system; it's ignored. Thanks! (Thanks too to the other responders.) Looks like that's the step I missed. Fixed now. Cheers. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 19:45:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44B111065670; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:45:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vrwmiller@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2B98FC1E; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:45:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so3063373obb.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:45:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=HBl22JnODOT4H5F6p9M04A4yVxKHE09w359K8sMEMhg=; b=AbhgU975jrMm3EwA5tu4vGmELRiX02mOPRXOYAfV8YUJRo7QCwKL4sK7eMormyEp1+ G79sX9b7OKWqJ5vHwmq1dLUGsBxrFDqCaS8vJALsMSuhfiySU4EPXu+T5Uw4VRDk+3HE hr+E6rVWJ9itzUCxYT6+JEMidk5esQp08wK/YNIHgTCTxWvjhQqY1vTjAOi9KuYt8iut yO9zwQj6D9le8XGr8/Ahk/xdUAq7/MDMBpGZg8Sl18ygZQ3GJGFboWYv0umOiv1JU0ih IYmIFek5mhKksjr9vif5Uv/iHgYqknv94qG9geFm3H+xgi2vbkbullIlRIYcMasX/gMq XtoA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.14.36 with SMTP id m4mr3257345obc.71.1340394346522; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:45:46 -0700 (PDT) Sender: vrwmiller@gmail.com Received: by 10.182.10.34 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:45:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:45:46 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: xyiLfF7zjX9lXRzxCTd5u4P3tj0 Message-ID: From: Rick Miller To: FreeBSD Questions , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Subject: Re: Intel X520-DA2 Supported in stable/8? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:45:47 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Rick Miller wro= te: > Hi All, > > Wondering if the Intel X520-DA2 10G Fibre NIC is supported in > stable/8. =A0Hardware notes don't specify it, but I have a system up and > the interfaces appear to be loaded by the ix driver. =A0However, status > indicates "no carrier". Ok, brain fart. Please forgive my ineptitude. I once sent an email inquiring about the Intel 82599, which is this NIC. Responses to that mail say it's supported by the ixgbe driver. My stable/8 installation (5/21/2012) probes it with an ix driver that I cannot find any info on. The ixgbe manage indicates it only supports 82598 based controllers. Not sure what to think here... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 19:51:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 453C51065675 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:51:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lokadamus@gmx.de) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 89A828FC0A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:51:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 22 Jun 2012 19:51:22 -0000 Received: from d071218.adsl.hansenet.de (EHLO FBSD.lokilan) [80.171.71.218] by mail.gmx.net (mp032) with SMTP; 22 Jun 2012 21:51:22 +0200 X-Authenticated: #3333826 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/zPIZKYX/zIOYrzT/e5m2iTNnEv1NuCmwrvZh0IF XewJNcvgP8dZNs Message-ID: <4FE4CCBA.3040808@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:51:22 +0200 From: "lokadamus@gmx.de" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120505 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lynn Steven Killingsworth References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Fwd: Need latest xorg X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:51:24 -0000 On 06/20/12 23:25, Lynn Steven Killingsworth wrote: > I don't seem to have generated much comment. > > I suspect you are thinking as I do that if your servers don't > immediately download then their is a bandit on my Internet line?? Xorg 7.7 for testing. http://miwi.bsdcrew.de/2012/06/cft-xorg-7-7-ready-for-testing/ but i can't load this site at the moment. :( From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 20:00:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDE1F1065672; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:00:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aboyer@averesystems.com) Received: from mail.averesystems.com (50-73-27-109-cpennsylvania.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.73.27.109]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7B9D8FC08; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:00:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.averesystems.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09CC248049C; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:54:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.averesystems.com Received: from mail.averesystems.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.averesystems.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e7LNDexcWa76; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:54:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from riven.arriad.com (206.193.225.214.nauticom.net [206.193.225.214]) by mail.averesystems.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BE7E4480276; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Andrew Boyer In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:54:01 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Rick Miller X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Intel X520-DA2 Supported in stable/8? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:00:45 -0000 The ixgbe driver creates devices named ix0, etc. I believe you need to run 'ifconfig ix0 up' before it will attempt to = get link. -Andrew On Jun 22, 2012, at 3:45 PM, Rick Miller wrote: > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Rick Miller = wrote: >> Hi All, >>=20 >> Wondering if the Intel X520-DA2 10G Fibre NIC is supported in >> stable/8. Hardware notes don't specify it, but I have a system up = and >> the interfaces appear to be loaded by the ix driver. However, status >> indicates "no carrier". >=20 > Ok, brain fart. Please forgive my ineptitude. I once sent an email > inquiring about the Intel 82599, which is this NIC. Responses to that > mail say it's supported by the ixgbe driver. My stable/8 installation > (5/21/2012) probes it with an ix driver that I cannot find any info > on. The ixgbe manage indicates it only supports 82598 based > controllers. Not sure what to think here... > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -------------------------------------------------- Andrew Boyer aboyer@averesystems.com From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 20:02:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6950B106566B; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:02:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vrwmiller@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED958FC1F; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:02:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so3086560obb.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:02:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=IW3+o435fKSnbumDwJ8P1l2aUlYqqX5kP+RUb+qAuKQ=; b=OVPBCnHZBPSYtSlqn64WTiB52AM8dhghlGn/dbEeSo+AEw+zn3wDmHxw215KjXkfhd fbIVC2vLpvg+BHUiyvjJH0adBaN66BSbp4V36ChB+8Zpqs4eiypnIsCF6RoVSruns+UF g7z4nwnBliOVAgZdixR5Gk8VAivS+WNjOJeiQrqoLo8M2/lf/7U+gRQSRyBM6NZZ7WTd Sbn6r97Mn9C/xaddjRXFDJvuiC3q0FtTdPZqmPdrttwBDuUL4l05ABt77RoPGmWF47kY 76y+4115bVT2XL997icJpVJxLhGZVOBX1/bhY0ClcHU9WSNBv2A499ZbcRhDDrMIUOty aptg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.47.66 with SMTP id b2mr3267431obn.2.1340395378756; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Sender: vrwmiller@gmail.com Received: by 10.182.10.34 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:02:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:02:58 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Qa8wu1hQCg8iFn_5fikCWmrlCtg Message-ID: From: Rick Miller To: Andrew Boyer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Intel X520-DA2 Supported in stable/8? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:02:59 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Andrew Boyer wrote: > The ixgbe driver creates devices named ix0, etc. > > I believe you need to run 'ifconfig ix0 up' before it will attempt to get link. Thanks for clarifying that tidbit. At least I know the driver loading is the correct driver :) I did try ifup'ing the interface...it shows the interface up, status is still no carrier. I've had confirmation that the cable itself is good. I wonder if it matters that the upstream switch has VLAN tagging enabled? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 20:23:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C4AE1065672 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:23:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8A28FC08 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:23:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so4998137lbo.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:23:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=myZwDo5ioptCKobxe4Xp2mod3r/7HpCK79u7rLKxVrY=; b=nIo99S4zA+cdFZDaKUOsqhtHXKY0SzprbB0OQ2ZemK80RCDNq+zhPtP/g+FQTRr/sZ s5opGUsL6PsUD4wJ644w6IEzPfXoHpHWe0C808o8CX1JLjbmnQFUAeHCZmxBVUswglMj 5ur4sHj/v0yxqYV9PKNv52oIhLG6fRjS3XJhY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=myZwDo5ioptCKobxe4Xp2mod3r/7HpCK79u7rLKxVrY=; b=ij+zqZcXpRAKUAxRYk1ZbwZB3lC7l9jXvcmISV+ut0LDxwEpdi/1ZEtBppLiSv3GQ4 aou3vaeKaXR8I1tSOOMCXyPSvea61oAeoGlHaUfBlTjPDXPLmAhOgWNw78URVXDv9FRd 52v2ArPp4AeNFhIwKUEZwjVTlGag3k380Z+Pi873maSE2s/dOa828f5P07Yfv/lbgy7U H/q7fRpC6CihiKhMixEiNU+JZ1Nf9yIwmt5XkN9BPAH5r4VgPJuBoEQU+6ziwXoIi2/I 09n92PoQtAk100q/52l5pYglE22F9IlDzrfOOzpN+JFTx6dKvYmgHyGVDCIh/hohp1Vj /fTA== Received: by 10.152.103.109 with SMTP id fv13mr3340087lab.33.1340396617513; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:23:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.125.70 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:18:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FE4BD13.3000204@infracaninophile.co.uk> References: <4FE4BD13.3000204@infracaninophile.co.uk> From: Eitan Adler Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:18:10 -0700 Message-ID: To: Matthew Seaman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQngnfX9a+MqoHfR82apjHXwdR+5pGG+Yt2Qmdmdjtc8vPBsKvXafZXlv/OsRRkOZZCfJ2v6 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Fred Morcos , Walter Hurry Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:23:39 -0000 On 22 June 2012 11:44, Matthew Seaman wro= te: > On 22/06/2012 18:40, Eitan Adler wrote: >>> q) Is there a place where all sysctl variables are documented? It >>> > occurred to me when I was trying to find the memory usage on my syste= m >>> > but `sysctl -a | grep mem' shows a whole bunch of stuff. > >> You can try sysctl -ad but most of the systls are either documented in >> man pages or not at all. :( > > It would be a really handy thing if the output of 'sysctl -d' told you > what man page to refer to for more information. =C2=A0A neat little proje= ct > but pretty boring to implement. Agreed. I don't have the time to do this directly, but I'm willing to commit patches that do this. --=20 Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 20:32:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A05501065702 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:32:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gobble.wa@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com (mail-wi0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C5B78FC12 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:32:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhm11 with SMTP id hm11so832512wib.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:32:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=hvOlT3Jkin1nDr6sFSprbVsdVEin0n4enbl6kDQmKzs=; b=ojDTrwL2+X7cdOdHhjFpuTC4yfUBmNomtA9QCVtnQ2kiuSaLthIDp4GgChd/oexRSE BEK3RKv8cAyGpjRPOWOaeo8NEREfQhy45TXEL+5wE/tClHCDuJxh1ofGQOdUWt6gJKzN S1gDpOhlFLJLUXhpU5ijl5+EANJfRSKEYNNLBl8FQ5lwowYGRAlYa8pzgmMaVFhao7JA W8P4RUprSd5U0QaURZZjIVrjcM6DC966wL9ptlPjuQNvvST1J1W5O0x2g2tfQy8sEBx0 bTXq+ZGsJsyk0M7IT2ambB97M98YPGhOMn8HzeKiEEeXAy48VC2Gfe/jIoy8FzRMTqyV KupQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.206.159 with SMTP id l31mr1788704weo.2.1340397155097; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.138.220 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:32:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FE4BD13.3000204@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:32:35 -0700 Message-ID: From: Waitman Gobble To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:32:36 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Eitan Adler wrote: > On 22 June 2012 11:44, Matthew Seaman > wrote: > > On 22/06/2012 18:40, Eitan Adler wrote: > >>> q) Is there a place where all sysctl variables are documented? It > >>> > occurred to me when I was trying to find the memory usage on my > system > >>> > but `sysctl -a | grep mem' shows a whole bunch of stuff. > > > >> You can try sysctl -ad but most of the systls are either documented in > >> man pages or not at all. :( > > > > It would be a really handy thing if the output of 'sysctl -d' told you > > what man page to refer to for more information. A neat little project > > but pretty boring to implement. > > Agreed. I don't have the time to do this directly, but I'm willing to > commit patches that do this. > -- > Eitan Adler > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > that sounds great, also, for the moment you can try grep in /usr/src and usually find what you are looking for there. Usually the source code is well-documented, and you can see which switches do what. an idea... Waitman Gobble San Jose California USA From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 20:48:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56C741065672 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:48:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D39258FC18 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:48:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so2030820wer.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:48:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to :x-gm-message-state; bh=ODsSzAk1azuxpZWR5IrGhHdBnuotKmB5pJt1fU94XMM=; b=N94/2JhEM/cuQVs2yu0Bn7RaffbuxFMH3skD4p52umHLTfWolVo1zpMVMUBiMIKj7d sPn2PaQZH8z/c5Hz1z/81CkV4OO0b8LXrpo8xoJg0jNF/PhfTvheJfkYoEwhZcL7NIB4 xIsTF68NCFmw9VwECrecOCnsnqp+2Kua4XDfT88ovvSvXafU/ZMpdvN2K1iY5nbGzNt0 rXYM3a62SOH5Zwujieahgk+BxkDrJdcbX8gEgtsD7A0CnYsHFCwUj5mQgXYBfDcorETb oTaBB9KZCdRWkK55KnNN54o0VVIs5xZrVwWe/QhuojirBFKTVOvaSRtEY+xPIBxPgdvW SNbA== Received: by 10.180.14.34 with SMTP id m2mr7268851wic.22.1340398126077; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.9.217.206] ([92.90.20.47]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f7sm1558287wiv.2.2012.06.22.13.48.44 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:48:45 -0700 (PDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9A405) From: Damien Fleuriot Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:48:40 +0200 To: Rick Miller X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn7Puk1uekqMUQPp/ascVo7SDkLMgb8176C5PFKVW4bsLgMLW63ox1gtdBaq1krPyS9cI3A Cc: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Questions , Andrew Boyer Subject: Re: Intel X520-DA2 Supported in stable/8? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:48:48 -0000 On 22 Jun 2012, at 22:02, Rick Miller wrote: > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Andrew Boyer wr= ote: >> The ixgbe driver creates devices named ix0, etc. >>=20 >> I believe you need to run 'ifconfig ix0 up' before it will attempt to get= link. >=20 > Thanks for clarifying that tidbit. At least I know the driver loading > is the correct driver :) >=20 > I did try ifup'ing the interface...it shows the interface up, status > is still no carrier. I've had confirmation that the cable itself is > good. I wonder if it matters that the upstream switch has VLAN > tagging enabled? >=20 Nope, having a link is layer 1, VLAN tagging happens at layer 3 iirc. If you're unsure, you can always create a VLAN interface bound to your NIC. I suppose you've tried reversing the fibre pair.= From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 21:01:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372A1106566C; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:01:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vrwmiller@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD7368FC12; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:01:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so2255317yen.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:01:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=h1sWHB64cLEKW/6R/ZtJ8atBwNAndzRE1oxf+swt8i4=; b=QuyBKbKgEErXuz0/aNvPoi3JdB6ysPVa+MDk2dGEhdaF6WjhMuetrBc6WvvqXwiB6Q d8vZsZxOTtGsbgWqPuWR8YCsBinfrXz2ffFak1Bl9606RWnp+j9514LNYpRJc7uUZKOl KKw2PFAZ99Y16EU5DmcV/+CNRflwZZarzWsfmrTwAtUtzgOHEVvZNvVO50a17Q0J0iy4 yXvazx20apdTgj+f4NMynS8NG3Rc8ekw7Yv1RJHTTBxCONrv3H8x/NMBGhYDOHKI9MKs HfwgLYxcGYcmkjZuqf/QCrM53nreEv0s/cGlv8bxkAq2QkPzbGNoejtafzSaFkv7BUg+ A1WA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.1.67 with SMTP id 3mr3454698oek.30.1340398901058; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Sender: vrwmiller@gmail.com Received: by 10.182.10.34 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:01:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:01:40 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: WTJ1lyUH7iK9mXvJWGYEDzYD03g Message-ID: From: Rick Miller To: Andrew Boyer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Intel X520-DA2 Supported in stable/8? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:01:42 -0000 dmesg and ifconfig output below... On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Rick Miller wro= te: > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Andrew Boyer w= rote: >> The ixgbe driver creates devices named ix0, etc. >> >> I believe you need to run 'ifconfig ix0 up' before it will attempt to ge= t link. > > Thanks for clarifying that tidbit. =A0At least I know the driver loading > is the correct driver :) > > I did try ifup'ing the interface...it shows the interface up, status > is still no carrier. =A0I've had confirmation that the cable itself is > good. =A0I wonder if it matters that the upstream switch has VLAN > tagging enabled? ix0: port 0x7000-0x701f mem 0xf6b80000-0xf6bfffff,0xf6b70000-0xf6b73fff irq 40 at device 0.0 on pci7 ix0: Using MSIX interrupts with 9 vectors ix0: RX Descriptors exceed system mbuf max, using default instead! ix0: [ITHREAD] ix0: [ITHREAD] ix0: [ITHREAD] ix0: [ITHREAD] ix0: [ITHREAD] ix0: [ITHREAD] ix0: [ITHREAD] ix0: [ITHREAD] ix0: [ITHREAD] ix0: Ethernet address: 90:e2:ba:15:e2:60 ix0: PCI Express Bus: Speed 5.0Gb/s Width x8 ix1: port 0x7020-0x703f mem 0xf6a80000-0xf6afffff,0xf6a70000-0xf6a73fff irq 44 at device 0.1 on pci7 ix1: Using MSIX interrupts with 9 vectors ix1: RX Descriptors exceed system mbuf max, using default instead! ix1: [ITHREAD] ix1: [ITHREAD] ix1: [ITHREAD] ix1: [ITHREAD] ix1: [ITHREAD] ix1: [ITHREAD] ix1: [ITHREAD] ix1: [ITHREAD] ix1: [ITHREAD] ix1: Ethernet address: 90:e2:ba:15:e2:61 ix1: PCI Express Bus: Speed 5.0Gb/s Width x8 ix0: flags=3D8843 metric 0 mtu 1500 options=3D401bb ether 90:e2:ba:XX:XX:XX inet 10.1.2.50 netmask 0xfffffe00 broadcast 10.1.3.255 media: Ethernet autoselect status: no carrier ix1: flags=3D8802 metric 0 mtu 1500 options=3D401bb ether 90:e2:ba:XX:XX:XX media: Ethernet autoselect status: no carrier --=20 Take care Rick Miller From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 21:21:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D0D51065670; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:21:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jfvogel@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A6678FC15; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:21:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so2053614wer.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:21:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=G0ipDEnY2kS1MUzU9S5CvkRbsiSv1AEMZXXqJeChr3o=; b=eXfeZ0nZfMEyHfED9e+OvPWmtEyVjqPUlokR0Lj/Q9grd7kIBuyP8Ha9A96PKLSEEC kOMDW8xnsJbt5juY67zN+BCUX6nhvm6xM5eItXyuGZ/aFQxCqUqG7KWwKAcO0pW0yYYA B+NCvN/c088PaGgQZCUguSyD1k37UtUxSR52KCe7NSg7DgDknuRiBDCUCAlAZpzq8sCy 3GU48LJDtW5gjdOLlv966xKMcWN7oGtvxhgC9EVl+jbYS9/XTjOrtcqYXf2ZXDd2aDta dBDKufFBTHrCz5YuVMGjmQvXXhT7Y5p6oTNvoq56/gz2/EchTgjdnegZYyCcmcX6mkOe KtYw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.196.147 with SMTP id r19mr1986574wen.87.1340400064669; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.105.232 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:21:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:21:04 -0700 Message-ID: From: Jack Vogel To: Rick Miller Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Questions , Andrew Boyer Subject: Re: Intel X520-DA2 Supported in stable/8? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:21:06 -0000 Increase your system mbuf pool size, you do not want that failure to happen. Jack On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Rick Miller wrote: > dmesg and ifconfig output below... > > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Rick Miller > wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Andrew Boyer > wrote: > >> The ixgbe driver creates devices named ix0, etc. > >> > >> I believe you need to run 'ifconfig ix0 up' before it will attempt to > get link. > > > > Thanks for clarifying that tidbit. At least I know the driver loading > > is the correct driver :) > > > > I did try ifup'ing the interface...it shows the interface up, status > > is still no carrier. I've had confirmation that the cable itself is > > good. I wonder if it matters that the upstream switch has VLAN > > tagging enabled? > > ix0: > port 0x7000-0x701f mem 0xf6b80000-0xf6bfffff,0xf6b70000-0xf6b73fff irq > 40 at device 0.0 on pci7 > ix0: Using MSIX interrupts with 9 vectors > ix0: RX Descriptors exceed system mbuf max, using default instead! > ix0: [ITHREAD] > ix0: [ITHREAD] > ix0: [ITHREAD] > ix0: [ITHREAD] > ix0: [ITHREAD] > ix0: [ITHREAD] > ix0: [ITHREAD] > ix0: [ITHREAD] > ix0: [ITHREAD] > ix0: Ethernet address: 90:e2:ba:15:e2:60 > ix0: PCI Express Bus: Speed 5.0Gb/s Width x8 > ix1: > port 0x7020-0x703f mem 0xf6a80000-0xf6afffff,0xf6a70000-0xf6a73fff irq > 44 at device 0.1 on pci7 > ix1: Using MSIX interrupts with 9 vectors > ix1: RX Descriptors exceed system mbuf max, using default instead! > ix1: [ITHREAD] > ix1: [ITHREAD] > ix1: [ITHREAD] > ix1: [ITHREAD] > ix1: [ITHREAD] > ix1: [ITHREAD] > ix1: [ITHREAD] > ix1: [ITHREAD] > ix1: [ITHREAD] > ix1: Ethernet address: 90:e2:ba:15:e2:61 > ix1: PCI Express Bus: Speed 5.0Gb/s Width x8 > > > ix0: flags=8843 metric 0 mtu 1500 > > options=401bb > ether 90:e2:ba:XX:XX:XX > inet 10.1.2.50 netmask 0xfffffe00 broadcast 10.1.3.255 > media: Ethernet autoselect > status: no carrier > ix1: flags=8802 metric 0 mtu 1500 > > options=401bb > ether 90:e2:ba:XX:XX:XX > media: Ethernet autoselect > status: no carrier > > > -- > Take care > Rick Miller > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 21:43:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60E59106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:43:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johnl@iecc.com) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD1248FC17 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:43:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 72896 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2012 21:43:28 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 22 Jun 2012 21:43:28 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fe4e700.xn--yuvv84g.k1206; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=oJZBPOyAvjOxsTYwMTletMkrG2xAHlstyccOP9IhIhQ=; b=ao9bG2iZ9jT9rfBhTIbRPldeGAAQQwsA9R7p3FX/unXGMlYB6t6sSlKw11/6h+v5pqdyFEnCY5Nr+gb8XvcHMxa1rSh8qSgRPDehh6qrLLe1pJEHfGyMDn7yhSrnUfNF2xNlIWS22t93P7l2l+dml3n/0att4Gmfrp+JCGmmNdY= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 22 Jun 2012 21:43:06 -0000 Message-ID: <20120622214306.3488.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Building libreoffice on 8.3 x86-64, not X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:43:30 -0000 I have an 8.3 x86-64 system, fully patched, all ports but one up to date. When I try to build libreoffice, it fails in various sub-builds. Most of the sub-builds work when I retry them, except for tail_build which fails repeatedly. It's using clang for the build, but I don't see any option to use GCC. Any suggestions? I have 500 megabytes of build logs if anyone wants to look at them. R's, John From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 21:56:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10E2F106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:56:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from martinrame@yahoo.com) Received: from nm16.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm16.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.90.79]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A4B948FC08 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:56:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.138.90.53] by nm16.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jun 2012 21:56:40 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.252] by tm6.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jun 2012 21:56:40 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1044.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jun 2012 21:56:40 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 286931.9685.bm@omp1044.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 46590 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jun 2012 21:56:39 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1340402199; bh=ujFy9d6xpWcZACKCGMbvSJ3dwFF2mXak63sWAJ/Dg34=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=y9i/f4plfpFBOG/2M3scRKZ+hOkQWrU8tDXkf3B+QQmedIrJNGAMPHyN1063mBschq9kJgkkF5VLpqimUmrCyP2oFqwwjHAWJCLEr7tgIo0kfNCVwbsHtKeeCSA6jKhbBCoTweqMF8hN6G99OvHcRfnndOabLSp/oNBV00LRb2g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=l9K3dtZMdCOVT39WsoFtyqKcmyH/3HRlOLSOoMxB4NYIfgfKneEzanACn+hVakm5qKaWjMRRj9dPStdnAlsadAQZH9hsh0UPobmw88HIAFRvMujQq8HxwtQA+1keUZYHO5/P2/6cfvCEbyQbYw0OP0ECizGpY+GfY3Y8ViuUuCw=; X-YMail-OSG: WS1FNscVM1mXlGXBc0L1aHXDXXylU.zNkaezjrKOnugVutR ffJtPQwAJ9w.5_Z.EP3ddCEBv94PUWHWmBIWrvpMGqpCYYEXwJOW1ibz5Plk Kjh1XDMAoJpcuAhzteO8gGWWj6qFPTPczuzWucl6_nWp.44se2hAlMlqAQH0 Nepfnb0sJS.k4LvLy5EOrn2jDRKNKGryvqgpvawal.Lv0UFBPneHik.edMOe SuhFM1NtOlk25BmInVXKeOyuvDLrd3aob4WkTBBU37Hj7uEVtj31ABZsN8eo RlWIVXv_Y49RQfffEbfBuSXt1kA_pQ_kSCBdTqsHIWqdau0Rir86VEDUzMZ3 1cCcJaW34FsT0WN5o23BL7J0Ne9W7Bjabq4U00XsjL0iq0GG8kSMRdOUxWCw TIzj1P.D9m.i1P0upnsJuGuQfUL8QGexfMKbeJF4poR1gBdiae0C93dv6gJ3 G1K9rKCBL5glWBcXIEfxTlG2uof74ptUJDFXqt4i9m98WbWxQY_FNbB1Xq42 YHYeKdfP13vL2ewrQWcCQnyket0G6clSBM0W6 Received: from [190.17.123.85] by web113501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:56:39 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.118.349524 Message-ID: <1340402199.44929.YahooMailNeo@web113501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:56:39 -0700 (PDT) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Leonardo_M=2E_Ram=E9?= To: Free BSD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: fsck_ufs running too often X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Leonardo_M=2E_Ram=E9?= List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:56:41 -0000 Hi, since a few of days ago, I noticed my home server turns very slow more = than once a day, so every time I run "top" to see what's processes are runn= ing, I can see fsck_ufs at the very top, and the hard drive working like ma= d.=0A=0AI've checked my crontab and there's nothing related to fsck_ufs, wh= ere can I start searching for the cause of the problem?, I thought this pro= cess should run only at boot or shutdown, but this time it is running -appa= rently- without a cause.=0A=0Auname -a:=0AFreeBSD server.my.local 9.0-RELEA= SE FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE #0: Tue Jan =A03 07:46:30 UTC 2012 =A0 =A0 root@farr= ell.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC =A0amd64=0A=0ARegards,=0AL= eonardo M. Ram=E9=0Ahttp://leonardorame.blogspot.com From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 22:19:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 194A3106564A; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:19:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vrwmiller@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B928C8FC14; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:19:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so3268854obb.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:19:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=fZL9kSEnOCddrF7KmZfF0ngnnLNitgXzZ5bUYfXBZiw=; b=a575d6vjMZINKletPl+vV4UBUvBF9NLJ743uPJO1EVR/hVUtc0UMR/0B5t4p0z02/I nQ4/V0FwggFitnWaCPVAxW9mlwicQ5jR2LPzDPCz5uPWyuKLzBK7UZeDcu7qa9kXVoib Vn3kNrABagYWbFLxwov7Ew2oPGQ5KR8E32wf9oJg1lSOZl150eSNYWugjV4uoBt8NQPy LPS7eJojIa5J7CErKzoOhrBGA3yrkUorULSvhxpme7uABE/iFzo2az2dYyjP54OW8HqV 1bH536GZxoyES+EXi+cjsTY6l9r2XpXHi7UBDTIRC5rO6bBryZbxg9Lhh4b4Wlv+/1Jy ggUQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.22.201 with SMTP id g9mr3639296oef.8.1340403577264; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Sender: vrwmiller@gmail.com Received: by 10.182.10.34 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:19:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:19:37 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: MmASWIfHv1ygoikKNbyNCm0xEA4 Message-ID: From: Rick Miller To: Jack Vogel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Questions , Andrew Boyer Subject: Re: Intel X520-DA2 Supported in stable/8? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:19:38 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 5:21 PM, Jack Vogel wrote: > Increase your system mbuf pool size, you do not want that failure to happen. Thanks, Jack. I saw a thread where you discussed this. You are referring to kern.ipc.nmbclusters, correct? Should I also adjust the following? hw.ixgbe.rxd hw.ixgbe.txd hw.ixgbe.num_queues hw.intr_storm_threshold From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 22:30:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FBC3106566C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:30:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com (mail-wi0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C428FC08 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:30:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhm11 with SMTP id hm11so895289wib.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:30:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xMUZMTPDhWeSeKlqJ9CYsfEqddegRbYZtbhJNZdQASo=; b=ZdaEh6RX6MvdLQ2mZEDuA8Hrtfu7b2TJj+9Y56eCTmPIH9jycVFJ1pAsQWUB6z2WvS xF4NuP1lspRaT/EMxFSy6Ib3hkzYuUK/HqKl7rjQkGTDBVA9oX734wPDLoz5pc+t8Bp4 5W5WxkHT0bcwKrlk7Co4Pbii3AOhDedUyvAvCW3IMD3MH6kHl5v6x7oq6wsK+3BcufE6 MNNxAT7S0jG4R3FDZSAazD1VqxgMwB2Fk3//BrFWBjLS4xMTHewHcHINfvsYacVc6QyU NWGokSXvlZ5K40jj9SEsVenu0qpJMAgeKGVDahFgpNqsEPNRcjlmd8c9f0mi52JTtKbT 2Rug== Received: by 10.216.211.209 with SMTP id w59mr1904926weo.160.1340404250535; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com (87-194-105-247.bethere.co.uk. [87.194.105.247]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bc2sm2467360wib.0.2012.06.22.15.30.49 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:30:47 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120622233047.73c89af4@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <1340402199.44929.YahooMailNeo@web113501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1340402199.44929.YahooMailNeo@web113501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: fsck_ufs running too often X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:30:52 -0000 On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Leonardo M. Ram=E9 wrote: > Hi, since a few of days ago, I noticed my home server turns very slow > more than once a day, so every time I run "top" to see what's > processes are running, I can see fsck_ufs at the very top, and the > hard drive working like mad. >=20 > I've checked my crontab and there's nothing related to fsck_ufs, > where can I start searching for the cause of the problem?, I thought > this process should run only at boot or shutdown, but this time it is > running -apparently- without a cause. If you have background fsck enabled it runs just after the boot has completed. Have you checked the uptime? It may be that your server is spontaneously rebooting. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 22:56:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3FBD106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:56:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AE198FC0C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:56:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5MMuYom043974 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:56:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:56:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206222256.q5MMuYom043974@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:56:16 -0000 "Thomas Mueller" wrote: > > > There actually is/was a closed-source BSD (BSDI), and there is Mac OS X, with BSD under the covers. BSDi sold source-code licenses. I was an early-adopter, and I _have_ one. The vast majority of the code was taken directly from BSD 4.4 Lite, and the source-code carried just the UCB copyriht and licensinG, The 'missing pieces' necessary to make an 'operational' O/S were copyright BSDi, most had fairly liberal license terms. There were some _vendor_supplied drivers that were binary-only, and had more rstrictive licensing.` From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 23:23:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18E261065672; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:23:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jfvogel@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0AC78FC12; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:23:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcbfy7 with SMTP id fy7so1446771vcb.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:23:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=1KQbV7/H9K4jxrK+Y1XYXobncQzJjUbO0Kdh/J96fC0=; b=XLLImPjx1522JQHkt2HlTwHll9O74XlkSjr/fowAiyrTSr5YNTXUAbt1JljzQRf8Jc fWCq9613l21MGYXZaBu+Ve1ACTFTEoSPipTWXqR2Ng/uSD4bTFTLcNezmLrYDnECdoXR y+g64fL5GejqHjSvg33eo3mTshZ9HPOhA75papq1icB6UmKPU7vdBsZz7P6buLy9qH5Y ApOHfaKyj6xDoDFdPWm/0wCHZJrymcUDr3C1myYzHGW3gTq2QDNZI95qXWc41DBmfObi XVbisUFo6ImPexd1IddDCyITf24nSS01qKmrr6JyjiASZWaWEaJJW4kEiq1/RhFCJ7jh Zofw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.209.75 with SMTP id gf11mr2007846vcb.56.1340407423886; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:23:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.236.201 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:23:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:23:43 -0700 Message-ID: From: Jack Vogel To: Rick Miller Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Questions , Andrew Boyer Subject: Re: Intel X520-DA2 Supported in stable/8? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:23:45 -0000 Would probably be good to take care of the storm threshold if you haven't, set it to 0 and you disable the check, that's what we do internally. As for the queues and number of descriptors, that's kind of up to you, different work loads and environments work best with different setups. Hopefully, when you get rid of the rx ring setup failure you will get things working. Jack On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 3:19 PM, Rick Miller wrote: > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 5:21 PM, Jack Vogel wrote: > > Increase your system mbuf pool size, you do not want that failure to > happen. > > Thanks, Jack. I saw a thread where you discussed this. You are > referring to kern.ipc.nmbclusters, correct? > > Should I also adjust the following? > > hw.ixgbe.rxd > hw.ixgbe.txd > hw.ixgbe.num_queues > hw.intr_storm_threshold > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 23:31:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56501065673 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:31:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lumiwa@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BAB98FC1F for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:31:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so2338315yen.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:30:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:user-agent:cc:references:in-reply-to :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; bh=KQPvi34lsQeeAwzg8x+vKfTyorMERqnm41bVqnzsTnU=; b=K4t61CGO9S8aD6qAOQwp5oc5QXpjvZCxFDV1UAgX0+nhyyBy/7u+UKokLqvDn+oTxI foYQEelGN9W0pAXYbqOqvH57VU2X1PM/S79pJCYxUNW6zO3Ami1ZYYUI/FDG6vdeevxN EbyqHhabTlXv/jt6H84aQbMMxB3i2CvVm+NRry9Do2MwIF6TRe/FCnUbkkLvCyPGmxBk vwv5b05E/DPOoKHb8w41iPNPlRC4K1Vgatd44SrKHxVOftz9Lx+nnWNW7m7tfYjJCGqX 2XfGm9TEgflhSzViRh3cHZuSk7znGkv8zOIeid+wV1KbhiH1bqYNYwnRaa9CZVNmmfVe FttA== Received: by 10.50.42.130 with SMTP id o2mr3156937igl.37.1340407859489; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from luna.wi.rr.com (cpe-184-58-138-79.wi.res.rr.com. [184.58.138.79]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f8sm3201712ign.0.2012.06.22.16.30.58 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:30:58 -0700 (PDT) From: ajtiM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:30:49 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/9.0-RELEASE-p3; KDE/4.8.4; i386; ; ) References: <20120622214306.3488.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120622214306.3488.qmail@joyce.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206221830.50325.lumiwa@gmail.com> Cc: John Levine Subject: Re: Building libreoffice on 8.3 x86-64, not X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:31:00 -0000 On Friday 22 June 2012 16:43:06 John Levine wrote: > I have an 8.3 x86-64 system, fully patched, all ports but one up to date. > > When I try to build libreoffice, it fails in various sub-builds. Most of > the sub-builds work when I retry them, except for tail_build which fails > repeatedly. > > It's using clang for the build, but I don't see any option to use GCC. > > Any suggestions? I have 500 megabytes of build logs if anyone wants > to look at them. > > R's, > John > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" It doesn't build with clan and nothing better is with gcc. Next version should be okay. Mitja -------- http://jpgmag.com/people/lumiwa From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 23:37:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55602106566C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:37:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crapsh@monkeybrains.net) Received: from lavash.monkeybrains.net (mail.monkeybrains.net [208.69.40.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B6628FC12 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:37:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [199.83.221.120] (199-83-221-120.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net [199.83.221.120]) (authenticated bits=0) by lavash.monkeybrains.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5MNbnS4069159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:37:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crapsh@monkeybrains.net) Message-ID: <4FE501CB.3070703@monkeybrains.net> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:37:47 -0700 From: Rudy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Stable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.3 at lavash.monkeybrains.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: cron pile up! libnss-mysql and cron (Rehash) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:37:49 -0000 4.5 years ago, I posted about cron's piling up. It seems if I install libnss-mysql on a fresh 9.0-STABLE, this problem persists. Here was the original post: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2007-December/164174.html I've seen this on 6.2, 7.x, and now 9.0 FreeBSD. How to repeat: install a fresh BSD system, install libnss-mysql, wait a few days. System info: FreeBSD 9.0-STABLE amd64 libnss-mysql-1.5_3 NSS module using a MySQL database for backend mariadb-client-5.3.6 Database server - drop-in replacement for MySQL mariadb-server-5.3.6 Database server - drop-in replacement for MySQL ps axlw | grep cron 0 56084 1 0 20 0 31064 2844 nanslp IsJ ?? 0:00.78 /usr/sbin/cron -s 0 68402 56084 0 20 0 31064 2844 ppwait DJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68403 68402 0 20 0 31064 2844 so_rcv_s IVsJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68527 56084 0 20 0 31064 2848 ppwait DJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68528 56084 0 20 0 31064 2844 ppwait DJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68530 68527 0 20 0 31064 2848 so_rcv_s IVsJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68531 68528 0 20 0 31064 2844 so_rcv_s IVsJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68558 56084 0 20 0 31064 2844 ppwait DJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68559 68558 0 20 0 31064 2844 so_rcv_s IVsJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68591 56084 0 20 0 31064 2844 ppwait DJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68592 68591 0 20 0 31064 2844 so_rcv_s IVsJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68608 56084 0 20 0 31064 2848 ppwait DJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68609 68608 0 20 0 31064 2848 so_rcv_s IVsJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68659 56084 0 20 0 31064 2848 ppwait DJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68660 68659 0 20 0 31064 2848 sbwait IVsJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68683 56084 0 20 0 31064 2844 ppwait DJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68684 68683 0 20 0 31064 2844 so_rcv_s IVsJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68722 56084 0 21 0 31064 2848 ppwait DJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) 0 68723 68722 0 20 0 31064 2848 so_rcv_s IVsJ ?? 0:00.00 cron: running job (cron) Interestingly, if I do a truss and hit ^C, the process disappears... see below: # truss -p 68684 ^C # truss -p 68684 truss: can not attach to target process: No such process # grep 68684 /var/log/cron Jun 22 16:25:00 mail /usr/sbin/cron[68684]: (root) CMD (/usr/libexec/atrun) Rudy From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 23:43:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A56106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:43:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from blue.seahorse.syndicate@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00A218FC08 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:43:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcbfy7 with SMTP id fy7so1453474vcb.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:43:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:to:cc:subject:references:date:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:from:organization:message-id:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=oNrUWW9gr/BBxMV5374n37Z+lTrBMOX7W7QbGxrAUYA=; b=iJnB7uxOORNXKoE5fNTEwIA6yUKJftOk9i+u+dSDLbzKiHgnOSOGQRr+215cXPyeW5 tn7WsOg3Ilhf1XXiZ6uviVLEiiGgbO25DhvJRmF0yEZeEq/+I7W5HsaKJjKmPrjQ1KYQ OwVXDVLo2mmHI//lGIKEqkICU80F40uNecD+Q6xc+KgSat503M+gQyIbr3HAim3TVcm0 +d1v/u2giRhGYrJJhAndvmjhfSKSXL2SibbuBeK+wPv5UE55VwvAXfyFVvshBnaCTQRU WYUQe+RPTq/nIdjBwfCB2xK9gl8Bq5iWtrvwQJYNAY6hXuc/yOCPx8qwlRLHQUJRiAFO Eahg== Received: by 10.220.220.83 with SMTP id hx19mr2038357vcb.53.1340408627460; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blueleafone.quebecconnection (pool-72-73-72-102.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net. [72.73.72.102]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m14sm34944957vdh.4.2012.06.22.16.43.45 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: "Lynn Steven Killingsworth" , "lokadamus@gmx.de" References: <4FE4CCBA.3040808@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:43:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lynn Steven Killingsworth Organization: Blue Seahorse Syndicate Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4FE4CCBA.3040808@gmx.de> User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.60 (FreeBSD) Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Fwd: Need latest xorg X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:43:48 -0000 I have found that 9-stable is on a couple of sites. Today I looked up the addresses of the packages and used pkg_add -r ftp://ftp....etc I have xorg-7.5.2 with newer drivers for my recent AMD HD 7950. It looks very, very nice. xorg-7.7 on 10 must be awesome but this is my principle machine. I also have kde4-4.8.3 and etc. On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:51:22 -0400, lokadamus@gmx.de wrote: > On 06/20/12 23:25, Lynn Steven Killingsworth wrote: >> I don't seem to have generated much comment. >> >> I suspect you are thinking as I do that if your servers don't >> immediately download then their is a bandit on my Internet line?? > Xorg 7.7 for testing. > http://miwi.bsdcrew.de/2012/06/cft-xorg-7-7-ready-for-testing/ > but i can't load this site at the moment. :( -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 23:51:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E2D9106564A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:51:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ABAE8FC0A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:51:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.36]) by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 22 Jun 2012 19:51:45 -0400 Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 4.3.4-GA) with ESMTP id BVC00215; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:51:44 -0400 Received-SPF: None identity=pra; client-ip=209.6.86.84; receiver=smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net; envelope-from="roberthuff@rcn.com"; x-sender="roberthuff@rcn.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Neutral identity=mailfrom; client-ip=209.6.86.84; receiver=smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net; envelope-from="roberthuff@rcn.com"; x-sender="roberthuff@rcn.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" Received-SPF: None identity=helo; client-ip=209.6.86.84; receiver=smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net; envelope-from="roberthuff@rcn.com"; x-sender="postmaster@jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received: from 209-6-86-84.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) ([209.6.86.84]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 22 Jun 2012 19:51:44 -0400 From: Robert Huff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <20453.1295.426639.205689@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:51:43 -0400 To: "John Levine" In-Reply-To: <20120622214306.3488.qmail@joyce.lan> References: <20120622214306.3488.qmail@joyce.lan> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" XEmacs Lucid X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Building libreoffice on 8.3 x86-64, not X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:51:51 -0000 John Levine writes: > I have an 8.3 x86-64 system, fully patched, all ports but one up to date. > > When I try to build libreoffice, it fails in various sub-builds. > Most of the sub-builds work when I retry them, except for > tail_build which fails repeatedly. There are known issues with libreoffice-3.5.2; the most common have to do with problems choosing the correct library (usually involving boost (port vs. libreoffice native)). There is a work-around, described in a revent thread in office@. There is also reason for hope this will be fixed in 3.5.4. Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 23:53:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A93321065672 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:53:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CFD28FC16 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:53:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5MNs09A044205 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:54:00 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:54:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206222354.q5MNs09A044205@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:53:41 -0000 > From wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl Fri Jun 22 09:26:33 2012 > Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:25:55 +0200 (CEST) > From: Wojciech Puchar > To: Robert Bonomi > cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Why Clang > > > Because it doesn't address an of the *OTHER* valid reasons why GCC is > > being replaced -- among them: > > 1) GCC's continuously increasing propensity to generate "bad code", > > examples? All test shows that gcc code is not only bad, but very good. YOU ARE A LIAR. The _only_thing *you* measure by is 'speed'. You don't understand what the words "bad code" means -- that it has *nothing* to do with how fast the code executes.. Despite the fact I explicitly described what I was talking about -- and that you intentionally removed that description. > Why are you just saying things you know isn't true? Why are you just _lying_ trollbiu? Just because _you_ haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not true. I *KNOW* it is true -- I've been bitten by GCC bad code _multiple_ times, and in multiple ways, in application code. Problems in O/S internals are much more common. I've had segfaults in code that couldn't _POSSIBLY_ segfault. An example of the _kind_ of thing that has blown up: int foo() { int a,b,c[10]; b=2; a=c[b]; /* dies here with a segfault */ } running in the debugger confirms b has the correct value just before the statement assigning a value to a. issue a 'next' command in the debugger, and you get a segfault. printing the value of 'b' shows it is 2. Disassembling the machine code shows that the WRONG REGISTER is used to calculate the effective address of the array element. It's clearly a bug in the optimizer -- I'd be surprised if it showed in that 'minimal' illustrative code. When I've gotten bit, it was a 1,000+ LOC module. I've also seen it use machine 'loop' instructions with the DF flag set wrong. > > 2) The inability of GCC mamintainers to fix _long-standing_ bugs, some > > have been identified for over a decade, and have not been fixed. > > That's true. still not that much. Your opinion of the seriousness doesn't count. Those of us who have had to 'code raround' those bugs for years and years have a _very_ different opinion. > > 3) The continuously increasing trend of introducing 'non standard' features, > No need to use them. Trollboi shows he doesn't know what he doesn't know, yet again. Some of them _conflict_ with STANDARD C. Thus 'standards-compliant' C source does 'something else', when compiled with GCC. The FSF thinks 'their way' is "better", and have no intention of changing. > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 23:58:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B8B106566C for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:58:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy6-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy6.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a6]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A689A8FC0A for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:58:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 20043 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jun 2012 23:58:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by cpoproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2012 23:58:20 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=lZPbjJ3//wqbGlq16X6LLPyvbtV88nfXd8gSWJCwheo=; b=FIr+xoAK1o6kba1oktadRFSmykN6qjmIW9tnR/v/Aj8zZUYppflC99pwZ66VVVYYonl0sY7YQFS4KmWX+z3yx7ekotsAHEU7y6HhO6RbYyDcTYSlvkk6vCfb/U+PBtqa; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=63379 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SiDk4-0001iK-0q for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:58:20 -0600 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:58:19 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120622235819.GA7876@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <20120622044212.GC24912@hemlock.hydra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:58:21 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:28:17AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > >biggest problem with what you propose, though, is that it would destroy > >the social factors in development of the FreeBSD system that make it what > >it is, and thus destroy FreeBSD itself, as far as I am concerned. > > I am not sure, as long as clients would be treated seriously! I look at large corporate software vendors and see them treating customers seriously maybe 2% of the time at best. In this case, most of the developers and project managers of FreeBSD are also "customers", which changes things significantly. > > > >I would have thought that even you should be able to understand that > >without help. > > another personal attack? I though i talk with adults. 1. It's a comment on your tendency to ignore substantive arguments from other people, including probably half a dozen (so far) lengthy explanations of factors you refuse to consider written by *me*. 2. You're a hypocrite, pretending you're an innocent victim of personal attacks, given the way you go around making personal attacks on everyone else with a broad brush. I've commented on that, too, but -- like much of the rest of what I've said -- you simply ignored it. > > > >Turning it into a commercial enterprise rather than an open source > >project would probably turn it into a project that is driven about 60% by > >corporate politics and 40% by marketing BS, with no room left over for > >quality except as needed to support the minimum credibility its CEO deems > >necessary to support those two concerns. > > It depends solely on development team. I take it you don't know anything at all about how public corporations manage their development teams. That, or you're being disingenuous. It depends on the development team, and the priorities they choose to pursue first, right now. Under the stewardship of a publicly traded corporation, it would depend on the CEO, the board of directors, marketing, PR, and the accounting department, and the priorities *they* choose to pursue first, instead. > > For now - as we see - it's decision are driven by money. > But not all users money but few selected large users. It's not *just* a decision driven by money. Money applies, certainly, but not as much as it would if FreeBSD were a for-profit public corporation rather than a community-driven open source project. When you say this, by the way, you ignore something like 90% of the perfectly reasonable additional motivating factors that have been brought up. I suppose I should not expect any different by now, given the strong track record you've managed to establish just in this one extended discussion. > > > >"Worse" based on a couple of very narrowly applicable metrics derived > > There will be IMHO soon good compiler available. it's highly > probable that pcc would improve a lot, for now it is small, quick > but doesn't produce good code for new CPUs. But it probably will > improve. > > CLANG is already great bloat, and will be worse. Binary size and minuscule benchmark variations are all you see. It is ludicrous to watch you close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears, and shout "lalalalalalalala" so consistently to prevent any other factors involved in compiler choice from entering your mind -- such as good output from a compiler that will be stable and do what you expect. > > No amount of money will fix it, actually too much money will hurt. . . . and yet you want to turn the FreeBSD project over to Microsoft (or the equivalent). You contradict yourself. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 22 23:58:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DC01106566B for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:58:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy7-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy7.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CCD288FC12 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:58:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 11179 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jun 2012 23:58:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy7.bluehost.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2012 23:58:46 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=+uZQZlCTIZefmO53HHn2F3vyDfJjBmmqi4GVeOie+B0=; b=hV4YwCrgchjIxzyIfEJ8VBK+vK6bAJlW5mkm43s6Og9kG22MfQuOIFgORKAizKMB/Tmr0rRAR7ugT30cX9lv2I24Lo/NbVKzBvLJ6LW+H1uWCG7pyD9KE+5H7NwWNnz/; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=63389 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SiDkT-00023l-Nx for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:58:45 -0600 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:58:45 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120622235845.GB7876@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20120622044212.GC24912@hemlock.hydra> <201206221116.q5MBG9kP043426@fire.js.berklix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201206221116.q5MBG9kP043426@fire.js.berklix.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:58:47 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 01:16:09PM +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Chad Perrin wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 01:06:12PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > i already proposed (but not publically) to turn FreeBSD into > > > commercial system. > > > > > > REALLY i would not see a problem to pay say 100$ per server licence. > > > > I would see a problem with that -- not because I don't think FreeBSD is > > worth it. I do, and I think it is worth more than that, in fact. The > > biggest problem with what you propose, though, is that it would destroy > > Hi Chad etc, > I admire the perserverance, but maybe "Don't feed the troll" ? Yeah. . . . -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 00:00:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0E2C1065672 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:00:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crapsh@monkeybrains.net) Received: from lavash.monkeybrains.net (mail.monkeybrains.net [208.69.40.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1E1F8FC0C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:00:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [199.83.221.120] (199-83-221-120.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net [199.83.221.120]) (authenticated bits=0) by lavash.monkeybrains.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5MNJTCj067150 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:19:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crapsh@monkeybrains.net) Message-ID: <4FE4FD7F.1050303@monkeybrains.net> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:19:27 -0700 From: Rudy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Stable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.3 at lavash.monkeybrains.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: cron pile up! Lot's of "cron: running job (cron)" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:00:09 -0000 http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2007-December/164174.html From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 00:10:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21A6D106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:10:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy9.bluehost.com (oproxy9.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D40E28FC15 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:10:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 23605 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jun 2012 00:10:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy9.bluehost.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2012 00:10:55 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=mfDE1zBiPCO6VgZnDJ8kB4ma9IURaxRwYtlBvQ+k0Zw=; b=UizgOyWj1d0L/aMLsm1pJdsQB2lDGcFfTRgNQ3SGXeAziSRdIFIhSJB1MqeOCpFV2tMmHVNGTono85K/WAstz0IEWe3mrHJDHtPd23Hm7rO/ZJ++cnI1GCmosAs7Z1SK; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=63664 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SiDwF-0004TV-29 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:10:55 -0600 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:10:54 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120623001054.GC7876@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <20120622042703.GB24912@hemlock.hydra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:10:56 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 09:24:57AM -0500, Reid Linnemann wrote: > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 11:27 PM, Chad Perrin wrote: > > I disagree with the assessment by others that FreeBSD is in some way > > effectively a subsidiary of its corporate users, but it does have > > corporate users, as well as non-corporate users.  Just as it must > > reasonably see to the needs of the individuals who use it, so must it > > also reasonably see to the needs of those corporate users, especially > > when some of those corporate users' employees are key developers for the > > base system (to the significant benefit of the rest of us).  Thus, saying > > that a particular set of conditions having an impact on commercial > > sponsors of FreeBSD has "zero bearing on FreeBSD itself" is just . . . > > incorrect. > > And I would like to stress on this point that, when I referred to > corporate sponsorship in an earlier post, I was thinking specifically > about the sponsorship of employing developers that keep the system > moving forward, not necessarily monetary donations. The foundation > does need money, but the software is doomed if no one is gainfully > employed to maintain and enhance it. I think there is an altruistic > fiction that many people subscribe to that free software is merely the > result of the generosity of developers producing code of their own > volition and on their own spare time and "giving it away," and from > that viewpoint the act of considering concerns of a sponsoring entity > amounts to "selling out." The reality is much different and much more > complex, as you well know. Indeed. When I contribute to an open source project, as an individual, much the same factors apply. I do not do it to help someone like Michel Talon, or even Reid Linnemann; I do it to help myself, by improving software I like, or to help people who in turn work to improve software I like. I have selfish goals that are served by my support of well- designed copyfree software, whether that support is financial in nature, a contribution of development effort, or something less direct. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 00:15:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F201065672 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:15:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18C738FC18 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:15:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5N0FPh8044345 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:15:25 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:15:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206230015.q5N0FPh8044345@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Sendmail and Postfix X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:15:07 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 22 13:47:20 2012 > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:41:46 -0500 > From: Mark Felder > Subject: Re: Sendmail and Postfix > > When you installed Postfix did you allow it to update the entries in > /etc/mail/mailer.conf ? If so, I wouldn't worry about the mailq binary > that came with the system; it's ignored. For SendMail, mailq is just a symlink to the SendMail executable. the "mail.conf" stuff (to use a polite word) installs it's own executable(s) under all the 'common' names that SendMail is invoked as. These executables look at /etc/mailer.conf, and invoke the appropiate executable for the mailer that you have seleccted in mailer.conf. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 00:37:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 538801065670 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:37:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy7-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy7.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0407F8FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:37:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 23090 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jun 2012 00:37:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy7.bluehost.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2012 00:37:18 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=FtFOz9kCFB0n9QeSy1yFkMLixY16fKmv9VBBAtecIrk=; b=KRkK5YWQbZ2aEq/FlNjsi4wJ1rXBFDhi68aNsj9Dt4bKE+Nzm0fsr0lcz3se/jUcJY6tQA/aprJO3O1dXgmIvsJ5HOP90+g4z/ThY2JWEuTT5/nhcMyg2C58WzbpScJ8; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=61212 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SiELm-0003w9-5o for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:37:18 -0600 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:37:17 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:37:19 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:47:40PM +0200, Roland Smith wrote: > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:09:03AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: > > I'm setting up a "new" backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used for > > backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any > > kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by > > cron or other scheduled procedures. > > What are the laptops running? FreeBSD, Debian, and/or Ubuntu. There's at least one of each. I apologize for not mentioning that sooner. I had a feeling I'd overlook something. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 01:14:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B62721065701 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 01:14:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amvandemore@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 180568FC1B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 01:14:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so5292223lbo.13 for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:14:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=MurHhAnK3v1VCkFEag5FuiGusSE1g3/B1NH8CzBVeXA=; b=PImLkxbAuPhK2bnoycfMQroPRTdOVKWr5EsLf84ltLR0pPpZqEYawNfCicCP76V4FD oVlDtQnmE7lxPoEzHYT9pEgT1bmTLsMzegB8OPZD7ADHK/htYXEjai1Bvbs4mmONyRny tdjf9Z9WDk1R0GguKuvSz/O9c/s/XVIzfZPDqrma0DOgC3YHMmAjfptwp1X/iiwE8f4c UYBjztR7zg1s5btdjn3ysm0YD9sLWP151ZatkpJSmqJ5zdPAysPBXn9YLHHx9UirkFa1 wVaX2pd7uhNkePaW76l8edV+Zdi533hA7w1qM0LOnoxtg2nMePSGqW2tfbisSJFpNKdH AJfg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.112.138 with SMTP id iq10mr4040707lab.13.1340414074849; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.26.132 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:14:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:14:34 -0500 Message-ID: From: Adam Vande More To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 01:14:36 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Chad Perrin wrote: > I'm setting up a "new" backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used for > backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any > kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by > cron or other scheduled procedures. I'm trying to decide on what tools > to use for managing backups. In the past I have used rsync, which has > worked reasonably well, but fails one of my desired criteria for the new > backup procedures, and is less than ideal for others. > One's I use or have used: sysutils/rdiff-backup sysutils/tarsnap misc/amanda-server -- Adam Vande More From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 01:32:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EEA6106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 01:32:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy9.bluehost.com (oproxy9.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 323008FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 01:32:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 13623 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jun 2012 01:32:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy9.bluehost.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2012 01:32:04 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=ibf30tYac2r9UceTo9T8Mfyie3y49pnLaPhA9zs+slo=; b=bD5PmMtrEzS9Sml8b1LZqVrF9bi/iKv/iAPK1H8zzSpaNO4siBIE9TM+gJZmOhIcVMxt7qeHO7mh7vCGDvz5v1qNGVNj68oJC24OLG8RiUzpOOcCcIiv4R3mbvqZ3+9X; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=60312 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SiFCl-0005G0-QF for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:32:03 -0600 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:32:03 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120623013203.GB29088@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 01:32:05 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:14:34PM -0500, Adam Vande More wrote: > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Chad Perrin wrote: > > > I'm setting up a "new" backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used for > > backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any > > kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by > > cron or other scheduled procedures. I'm trying to decide on what tools > > to use for managing backups. In the past I have used rsync, which has > > worked reasonably well, but fails one of my desired criteria for the new > > backup procedures, and is less than ideal for others. > > > > One's I use or have used: > > sysutils/rdiff-backup > sysutils/tarsnap > misc/amanda-server Unfortunately, one of those is GPL, another is subject to proprietary licensing, and the last has a bunch of (otherwise unnecessary on the server) GNU project dependencies. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 02:11:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B397106566B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 02:11:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5778FC0A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 02:11:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-102-5.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.102.5]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65BE03CE8E; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:11:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q5N2Bema002103; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:11:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:11:40 +0200 From: Polytropon To: "lokadamus@gmx.de" Message-Id: <20120623041140.fb3b1a36.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <4FE4BFFB.60508@gmx.de> References: <4FE4BFFB.60508@gmx.de> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How can i disable cups, docbook, gutenprint and other ports? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 02:11:48 -0000 On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 20:56:59 +0200, lokadamus@gmx.de wrote: > Hi all, > > How can i disable cups, docbook and other ports from compiling after > port update? > I have no printer and no use of cups or docbook. If you don't mind the _time_ required for building those ports (and taking into mind that the disk space occupied doesn't even matter as disks are big and cheap today), you don't have to _enable_ CUPS if you're actually _not_ using it. That would be "disabling" them. :-) Sadly, there's no really comfortable way of not _building_ them as they are (almost "hardcoded"!) dependencies for other ports you might be using. There are some config screens (see "make config" and "make config-recursive" or portmaster's --force-config option) where you _might_ have the chance to de-select some of those ports so they won't build. But as I said, that depends on the "primary" ports you're using and their dependencies. You know, "by accident", you could even install LaTeX (teTeX) as a dependency! :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 02:22:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E254106564A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 02:22:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B1548FC0A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 02:22:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-102-5.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.102.5]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D83A3CEBD; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:22:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q5N2MT8K002154; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:22:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:22:29 +0200 From: Polytropon To: "Leonardo M. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ram=E9?=" Message-Id: <20120623042229.c5d8a8d8.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <1340402199.44929.YahooMailNeo@web113501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1340402199.44929.YahooMailNeo@web113501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Free BSD Subject: Re: fsck_ufs running too often X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 02:22:31 -0000 On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:56:39 -0700 (PDT), Leonardo M. Ram=E9 wrote: > Hi, since a few of days ago, I noticed my home server turns very > slow more than once a day, so every time I run "top" to see > what's processes are running, I can see fsck_ufs at the very > top, and the hard drive working like mad. It seems you have background_fsck=3D"YES" enabled in /etc/rc.conf. Is this desired? If not, set it to =3D"NO" to perform a file system check prior to going multi-user. That would take several minutes, but it makes sure the system boots up into a properly checked and mounted environment. > I've checked my crontab and there's nothing related to fsck_ufs, > where can I start searching for the cause of the problem?, Check /etc/rc.conf (see "man rc.conf" and /etc/defaults/rc.conf), look for the background_fsck setting. > I thought this process should run only at boot or shutdown, At shutdown? I'd say at boot. In fact, a background file system check actually starts at boot, but runs during and after boot-up, that's what you're obviously noticing as high I/O load. > but this time it is running -apparently- without a cause. No. The fsck run doesn't start without a cause. The cause is: the filesystem about to be mounted is "dirty" (contains defects because it wasn't properly unmounted). What the reason for _this_ observation is... check if your server accidentally got powered off (e. g. bad power line). You can check the timestamps in various log files (most prominent example is /var/log/messages) to see when your system started. If you notice the system started "too often", maybe fsck was not able to successfully finish (and repair!) the file systems, so it will do so on every start of the system. My suggestion: Set background_fsck=3D"YES" in /etc/rc.conf and let the system boot up that way. _If_ you have a faulty disk or other data corruption, you'll notice this _before_ going multi-user and maybe making things worse. Yes, it might take some time, but it's time well invested in your data integrity. Alternative: Perform a "shutdown now" and go into single-user mode. Then unmount all your file systems, do "mount -o ro /" and then perform the fsck run on all file systems. It's typically adviced to perform file system checks on unmounted (or at least read-only mounted) file systems. --=20 Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 02:29:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E191106566B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 02:29:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mamuskus@edatel.com.co) Received: from edatel-imsva-01.edatel.com.co (edatel-imsva-01.edatel.com.co [190.109.177.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B12F78FC0A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 02:29:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from edatel-imsva-01.edatel.com.co (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA80 (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33A4C478062; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:27:33 -0500 (COT) Received: from correo.edatel.com.co (unknown [10.4.1.76]) by edatel-imsva-01.edatel.com.co (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25B5247805B; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:27:33 -0500 (COT) Received: from EDATEL-MBX-01.edatel.com.co ([10.4.1.71]) by edatel-hbt-02 ([10.4.1.76]) with mapi; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:27:43 -0500 From: Marco Antonio Muskus Muskus To: Chad Perrin Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:27:43 -0500 Thread-Topic: backup tools Thread-Index: Ac1Q58T/h/jBU07nTTCa4UT9Twm0PA== Message-ID: <7E976433-733A-45EF-879E-5AC8F4200A45@edatel.com.co> References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120623013203.GB29088@hemlock.hydra> In-Reply-To: <20120623013203.GB29088@hemlock.hydra> Accept-Language: es-ES, es-CO Content-Language: es-ES X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: es-ES, es-CO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 02:29:54 -0000 QmFjdWxhIGlzIHRoZSB0b29sDQoNCkVudmlhZG8gZGVzZGUgbWkgaVBvZA0KDQpFbCAyMi8wNi8y MDEyLCBhIGxhcyA4OjMxIHAubS4sICJDaGFkIFBlcnJpbiIgPHBlcnJpbkBhcG90aGVvbi5jb20+ DQplc2NyaWJpw7M6DQoNCj4gT24gRnJpLCBKdW4gMjIsIDIwMTIgYXQgMDg6MTQ6MzRQTSAtMDUw MCwgQWRhbSBWYW5kZSBNb3JlIHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gT24gRnJpLCBKdW4gMjIsIDIwMTIgYXQgMTE6 MDkgQU0sIENoYWQgUGVycmluIDxwZXJyaW5AYXBvdGhlb24uY29tPg0KPj4gd3JvdGU6DQo+Pg0K Pj4+IEknbSBzZXR0aW5nIHVwIGEgIm5ldyIgYmFja3VwIHNlcnZlciB1c2luZyBGcmVlQlNELiAg SXQgd2lsbCBiZQ0KPj4+IHVzZWQgZm9yDQo+Pj4gYmFja2luZyB1cCBsYXB0b3BzLCB3aGljaCB3 aWxsIG5vdCBiZSBjb25uZWN0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIG5ldHdvcmsgYnkNCj4+PiBhbnkNCj4+PiBraW5k IG9mIHNjaGVkdWxlLCBzbyBiYWNrdXBzIHdpbGwgYmUgaW5pdGlhdGVkIG1hbnVhbGx5IHJhdGhl cg0KPj4+IHRoYW4gYnkNCj4+PiBjcm9uIG9yIG90aGVyIHNjaGVkdWxlZCBwcm9jZWR1cmVzLiAg SSdtIHRyeWluZyB0byBkZWNpZGUgb24gd2hhdA0KPj4+IHRvb2xzDQo+Pj4gdG8gdXNlIGZvciBt YW5hZ2luZyBiYWNrdXBzLiAgSW4gdGhlIHBhc3QgSSBoYXZlIHVzZWQgcnN5bmMsIHdoaWNoDQo+ Pj4gaGFzDQo+Pj4gd29ya2VkIHJlYXNvbmFibHkgd2VsbCwgYnV0IGZhaWxzIG9uZSBvZiBteSBk ZXNpcmVkIGNyaXRlcmlhIGZvcg0KPj4+IHRoZSBuZXcNCj4+PiBiYWNrdXAgcHJvY2VkdXJlcywg YW5kIGlzIGxlc3MgdGhhbiBpZGVhbCBmb3Igb3RoZXJzLg0KPj4+DQo+Pg0KPj4gT25lJ3MgSSB1 c2Ugb3IgaGF2ZSB1c2VkOg0KPj4NCj4+IHN5c3V0aWxzL3JkaWZmLWJhY2t1cA0KPj4gc3lzdXRp bHMvdGFyc25hcA0KPj4gbWlzYy9hbWFuZGEtc2VydmVyDQo+DQo+IFVuZm9ydHVuYXRlbHksIG9u ZSBvZiB0aG9zZSBpcyBHUEwsIGFub3RoZXIgaXMgc3ViamVjdCB0byBwcm9wcmlldGFyeQ0KPiBs aWNlbnNpbmcsIGFuZCB0aGUgbGFzdCBoYXMgYSBidW5jaCBvZiAob3RoZXJ3aXNlIHVubmVjZXNz YXJ5IG9uIHRoZQ0KPiBzZXJ2ZXIpIEdOVSBwcm9qZWN0IGRlcGVuZGVuY2llcy4NCj4NCj4gLS0N Cj4gQ2hhZCBQZXJyaW4gWyBvcmlnaW5hbCBjb250ZW50IGxpY2Vuc2VkIE9XTDogaHR0cDovL293 bC5hcG90aGVvbi5vcmcgXQ0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBmcmVlYnNkLXF1ZXN0aW9uc0BmcmVlYnNkLm9yZyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QN Cj4gaHR0cDovL2xpc3RzLmZyZWVic2Qub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVz dGlvbnMNCj4gVG8gdW5zdWJzY3JpYmUsIHNlbmQgYW55IG1haWwgdG8gImZyZWVic2QtcXVlc3Rp b25zLXVuc3Vic2NyaWJlQGZyZWVic2Qub3JnDQo+ICINCg0KRXN0ZSBtZW5zYWplIHkvbyBzdXMg YW5leG9zIHNvbiBwYXJhIHVzbyBleGNsdXNpdm8gZGUgc3UgZGVzdGluYXRhcmlvIGludGVuY2lv bmFsIHkgcHVlZGUgY29udGVuZXIgaW5mb3JtYWNpw7NuIGxlZ2FsbWVudGUgcHJvdGVnaWRhIHBv ciBzZXIgY29uZmlkZW5jaWFsLiBTaSB1c3RlZCBubyBlcyBlbCBkZXN0aW5hdGFyaW8gaW50ZW5j aW9uYWwgZGVsIG1lbnNhamUgcG9yIGZhdm9yIGluZsOzcm1lbm9zIGRlIGlubWVkaWF0byB5IGVs aW3DrW5lbG8sIGFzw60gY29tbyBzdXMgYW5leG9zLiBJZ3VhbG1lbnRlLCBsZSBjb211bmljYW1v cyBxdWUgY3VhbHF1aWVyIHJldGVuY2nDs24sIHJldmlzacOzbiBubyBhdXRvcml6YWRhLCBkaXN0 cmlidWNpw7NuLCBkaXZ1bGdhY2nDs24sIHJlZW52w61vLCBjb3BpYSwgaW1wcmVzacOzbiwgcmVw cm9kdWNjacOzbiwgbyB1c28gaW5kZWJpZG8gZGUgZXN0ZSBtZW5zYWplIHkvbyBzdXMgYW5leG9z LCBlc3TDoSBlc3RyaWN0YW1lbnRlIHByb2hpYmlkYSB5IHNhbmNpb25hZGEgbGVnYWxtZW50ZS4g IEVEQVRFTCBTLkEuIG5vIHNlIGhhY2UgcmVzcG9uc2FibGUgZW4gbmluZ8O6biBjYXNvIHBvciBk YcOxb3MgZGVyaXZhZG9zIGRlIGxhIHJlY2VwY2nDs24gZGVsIHByZXNlbnRlIG1lbnNhamUuDQo= From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 03:36:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5F46106564A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 03:36:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbiquez@intranet.com.mx) Received: from intranet.com.mx (intranet.com.mx [200.33.246.7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F47C8FC0A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 03:36:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from PC2.intranet.com.mx (189.191.230.80) by intranet.com.mx with ESMTP (EIMS X 3.3.9) for ; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:31:40 -0500 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:28:55 -0500 To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org From: Jorge Biquez Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-ID: <3423267101-1670052078@intranet.com.mx> Cc: Subject: Off Topic. DNS, Android. X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 03:36:42 -0000 Hello. I am sorry if the following 2 questions could sound too stupid. a) Normally any Domain name registered has to have 2 Nameservers. Some registry like the one responsible for .ORG requires 2 at least to propagate the domain. In teh case of .COM that is not a requirement, one nameserver could work. If for some reason I have 2 of them and one is configured to point to SERVER A , and the other to SERVER B. Differenet places, same configuration. Is there any preference over what is PRIMARY NAMESERVER or SECONDARY NAMESERVER? I mean, Primary is the one used mainly? b) I am looking for good list like this one for people developing, learning about Android Development. Any suggestion ? I am trying to setup a Freebsd machine for developing for Android, if possible. Thanks in advance. JB From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 04:21:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565A61065673 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:21:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erich@alogreentechnologies.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C22708FC0C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:21:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5N4L9Jm013860; Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:21:12 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky Organization: ALO Green Technologies To: RetspaN Code , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:21:07 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <1340379530.49640.YahooMailNeo@web190402.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> <201206222259.34058.erich@alogreentechnologies.com> <1340419655.63495.YahooMailNeo@web190404.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1340419655.63495.YahooMailNeo@web190404.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206231121.07892.erich@alogreentechnologies.com> Cc: Subject: Re: I have a problem to my server running under FreeBSD 8.1 p-1 release X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:21:14 -0000 Hi, On Saturday 23 June 2012 09:47:35 RetspaN Code wrote: > Hello, > > Since you all the responsible of freebsd source and updates... Is there you are the only one responsible for the break in. So, what was the problem? > anyway to fix my server without re install the system? > Oh yes, you can find out what was done with your system and revert all changes. But you must be really sure what you are doing then. And you can do this only as long as you still have root access. Do you still have it? Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 05:42:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC51106564A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 05:42:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cswiger@mac.com) Received: from nk11p00mm-asmtp005.mac.com (nk11p00mm-asmtp005.mac.com [17.158.161.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 300B28FC12 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 05:42:55 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Received: from [17.153.51.159] (unknown [17.153.51.159]) by nk11p00mm-asmtp005.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-23.01(7.0.4.23.0) 64bit (built Aug 10 2011)) with ESMTPSA id <0M61005WSZRB3W60@nk11p00mm-asmtp005.mac.com> for freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:42:49 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.7.7855,1.0.260,0.0.0000 definitions=2012-06-23_02:2012-06-22, 2012-06-23, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=6.0.2-1203120001 definitions=main-1206220384 From: Chuck Swiger X-Priority: 1 (Highest) In-reply-to: <3423267101-1670052078@intranet.com.mx> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:42:47 -0700 Message-id: <60022DAD-AF66-4523-9A14-2168905358A9@mac.com> References: <3423267101-1670052078@intranet.com.mx> To: Jorge Biquez X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Off Topic. DNS, Android. X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 05:42:55 -0000 On Jun 22, 2012, at 8:28 PM, Jorge Biquez wrote: > Hello. Hola! > I am sorry if the following 2 questions could sound too stupid. > > a) Normally any Domain name registered has to have 2 Nameservers. Some registry like the one responsible for .ORG requires 2 at least to propagate the domain. In teh case of .COM that is not a requirement, one nameserver could work. It's always a good idea to have at least two nameservers configured for any public domain, and best practice involves having nameservers located on different networks. > If for some reason I have 2 of them and one is configured to point to SERVER A , and the other to SERVER B. Differenet places, same configuration. Is there any preference over what is PRIMARY NAMESERVER or SECONDARY NAMESERVER? I mean, Primary is the one used mainly? No, DNS round-robin used on most platforms will rotate fairly evenly. And the traffic can be cached by other nameservers for a long(er) time by upping TTLs, if you wish to reduce network traffic load...at the tradeoff of making DNS changes take longer to be noticed, of course. Bigger sites might adjust DNS traffic onto server pools with a load-balancer which does liveness checks of the nameservers and could be told to adjust traffic routing in various ways. You can also do something similar via ipfw/natd's redirect_address (see RFC 2391). > b) I am looking for good list like this one for people developing, learning about Android Development. Any suggestion ? > I am trying to setup a Freebsd machine for developing for Android, if possible. Hmm. http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html suggests that maybe the Linux distribution under FreeBSD's Linux emulation might be a possibility. Regards, -- -Chuck From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 05:50:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9047106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 05:50:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from legolas@legolasweb.nl) Received: from smtp01.mail.pcextreme.nl (smtp01.mail.pcextreme.nl [IPv6:2a00:f10:101:101:0:25:587:1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E1CB8FC0C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 05:50:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (webmail02.mail.pcextreme.nl [109.72.87.146]) by smtp01.mail.pcextreme.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6C0A7616C; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:50:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from webmail.pcextreme.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id D278463008C; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:50:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 83.87.227.42 (SquirrelMail authenticated user legolas@legolasweb.nl) by webmail.pcextreme.nl with HTTP; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:50:57 +0200 Message-ID: <4c315bf758e91fe031856fe705a7e7ed.squirrel@webmail.pcextreme.nl> In-Reply-To: <60022DAD-AF66-4523-9A14-2168905358A9@mac.com> References: <3423267101-1670052078@intranet.com.mx> <60022DAD-AF66-4523-9A14-2168905358A9@mac.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:50:57 +0200 From: "Stas Verberkt" To: "Chuck Swiger" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Importance: High Cc: Jorge Biquez , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Off Topic. DNS, Android. X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 05:50:43 -0000 >> b) I am looking for good list like this one for people developing, >> learning about Android Development. Any suggestion ? >> I am trying to setup a Freebsd machine for developing for Android, if >> possible. > > Hmm. http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html suggests that maybe the > Linux distribution under FreeBSD's Linux emulation might be a possibility. > On some blog, I read about http://bsdroid.org From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 06:06:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6FE71065676 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:06:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 366328FC19 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:06:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5N66G4a030775; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:06:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5N66GCi030772; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:06:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:06:16 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Jorge Biquez In-Reply-To: <3423267101-1670052078@intranet.com.mx> Message-ID: References: <3423267101-1670052078@intranet.com.mx> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:06:17 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Off Topic. DNS, Android. X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:06:16 -0000 > a) Normally any Domain name registered has to have 2 Nameservers. Some don't have to. but should. > registry like the one responsible for .ORG requires 2 at least to propagate > the domain. In teh case of .COM that is not a requirement, one nameserver > could work. If for some reason I have 2 of them and one is configured to > point to SERVER A , and the other to SERVER B. Differenet places, same > configuration. Is there any preference over what is PRIMARY NAMESERVER or > SECONDARY NAMESERVER? I mean, Primary is the one used mainly? actually when another DNS server resolve the name it may use any of them. Primary and secondary is mostly term for you - DNS operator. Primary is the way where you type in domain definition file, secondary is the one that fetches the file from primary every time it was modified. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 06:09:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10A5E106564A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:09:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7209C8FC0A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:09:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5N69YJQ030784; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:09:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5N69Y7C030781; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:09:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:09:33 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chad Perrin In-Reply-To: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> Message-ID: References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:09:34 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:09:40 -0000 > > My criteria for procedures are: > > 1. They should minimize the need for additional software beyond the base > system as much as reasonably possible. This means not only that I do not good idea. > 3. They should provide for incremental backups. do backed up laptops use FreeBSD or have another filesystem. > > 4. They should provide for the ability to quickly and easily test backup > integrity without restoring the backups anywhere, which most likely means > some kind of checksum comparisons akin to what rsync provides. > > 5. They should allow for transferring data from the system to be backed > up to the backup server via SSH. there is precisely one tool you need. /usr/ports/net/rsync there is many "distros" of rsync for windoze if laptops run it. Not sure what actually works but i can check if you wish. i use rsync for backup server, just config is different: my server is behind NAT, and it connects to backed up server with rsync man rsync and read carefully, don't forget -b option it's very useful From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 06:10:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AEF8106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:10:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 695F58FC20 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:10:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5N6AQNK030792; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:10:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5N6APAg030789; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:10:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:10:25 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Leonardo_M=2E_Ram=E9?= In-Reply-To: <1340402199.44929.YahooMailNeo@web113501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: References: <1340402199.44929.YahooMailNeo@web113501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="2456600518-608464798-1340431826=:30629" X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:10:26 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Free BSD Subject: Re: fsck_ufs running too often X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:10:26 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --2456600518-608464798-1340431826=:30629 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > Hi, since a few of days ago, I noticed my home server turns very slow more than once a day, so every time I run "top" to see what's processes are running, I can see fsck_ufs at the very top, and the hard drive working like mad. background_fsck=NO in /etc/rc.conf > > I've checked my crontab and there's nothing related to fsck_ufs, where can I start searching for the cause of the problem?, I thought this process should run only at boot or shutdown, but this time it is running -apparently- without a cause. > > uname -a: > FreeBSD server.my.local 9.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE #0: Tue Jan  3 07:46:30 UTC 2012     root@farrell.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC  amd64 > > Regards, > Leonardo M. Ramé > http://leonardorame.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > --2456600518-608464798-1340431826=:30629-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 06:15:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7E971065672 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:15:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erich@alogreentechnologies.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC8758FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:15:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5N6FTW6003911; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:15:31 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky Organization: ALO Green Technologies To: RetspaN Code , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:15:28 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <1340379530.49640.YahooMailNeo@web190402.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> <201206231121.07892.erich@alogreentechnologies.com> <1340431166.52870.YahooMailNeo@web190402.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1340431166.52870.YahooMailNeo@web190402.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206231315.28209.erich@alogreentechnologies.com> Cc: Subject: Re: I have a problem to my server running under FreeBSD 8.1 p-1 release X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:15:33 -0000 Hi, On Saturday 23 June 2012 12:59:26 RetspaN Code wrote: > Hello, > > Yes I'm still have a root access... that is why i right you a letter for a > help regarding to this problem on my server which is running freebsd 8.1 > p1 release... i did paste the error that i encounter on the server on my > first email. this only shows that you have an intruder. It would be close to impossible to diagnose it right from distance. > > Please help me to fix. Get either a boot 8.3 media or 9.0 and make a fresh install which even overwrites the filesystem. Of course, make a backup of your user data. Use different passwords and - most important - keep the machine offline until the new system is installed. I cannot think of a faster way to get rid of the problem. Erich > > Thanks Erich, > > Regards, > > FredFoxs > > > ________________________________ > From: Erich Dollansky > To: RetspaN Code ; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 12:21 PM > Subject: Re: I have a problem to my server running under FreeBSD 8.1 p-1 > release > > Hi, > > On Saturday 23 June 2012 09:47:35 RetspaN Code wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Since you all the responsible of freebsd source and updates... Is there > > you are the only one responsible for the break in. So, what was the > problem? > > > anyway to fix my server without re install the system? > > Oh yes, you can find out what was done with your system and revert all > changes. > > But you must be really sure what you are doing then. > > And you can do this only as long as you still have root access. Do you > still have it? > > Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 06:36:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A114A106566B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:36:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5277B8FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:36:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5N6ahtg008272; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:36:46 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: RetspaN Code , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:36:42 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <1340379530.49640.YahooMailNeo@web190402.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> <201206231315.28209.erich@alogreentechnologies.com> <1340432642.15254.YahooMailNeo@web190405.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1340432642.15254.YahooMailNeo@web190405.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206231336.42768.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: Subject: Re: I have a problem to my server running under FreeBSD 8.1 p-1 release X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:36:47 -0000 Hi, On Saturday 23 June 2012 13:24:02 RetspaN Code wrote: > Hello, > > Intruder already block, but my problem is the intruder before they get > block they load their exploit file to my machine that cause of my machine > /usr/src directory is set to read only i can't upload or put any file on > that folder saying permission denied. How to repair some of my files are > need to update. specially freebsd files. the user intruder can't login > anymore to the machine thru terminal using root access coz direct root > login access is disabled already. and ttys also set to IS or "insecure". > So my problem now is this how to fix that issue? so that i can update my > server machine to the latest. i want to upgrade my 8.1 to 9.0 it is > possible without problem after updates? chmod would be your friend. But you still do not know what kind of software is now running outside of your control. I would not even trust the compiler or even ls anymore on such a system. erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 06:52:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D733106564A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:52:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from w3@langhans.com.pl) Received: from langhans.com.pl (host-194126238033.net-serwis.pl [194.126.238.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D392A8FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:52:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by langhans.com.pl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3916F234EE9C; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:47:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:47:27 +0200 From: herbert langhans To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120623064727.GA11101@manul.langhans.com.pl> References: <20120623023022.5993A106572F@hub.freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120623023022.5993A106572F@hub.freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:52:56 -0000 Maybe take a look at lftp, at the mirror option. For basic demands its a compact solution. Cheers herb langhans -- sprachtraining langhans herbert langhans, warschau herbert.raimund[at]gmx.net herbert[at]langhans.com.pl http://www.langhans.com.pl +0048 603 341 441 | jabber:herbs | icq:414500866 | yahoo_im:herbert.raimund From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 07:02:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42958106564A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:02:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1485A8FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:02:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5N72ZFg013937; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 01:02:37 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: RetspaN Code , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:02:34 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <1340379530.49640.YahooMailNeo@web190402.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> <201206231336.42768.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> <1340433684.54551.YahooMailNeo@web190404.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1340433684.54551.YahooMailNeo@web190404.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206231402.34973.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: Subject: Re: I have a problem to my server running under FreeBSD 8.1 p-1 release X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:02:38 -0000 Hi, On Saturday 23 June 2012 13:41:24 RetspaN Code wrote: > 49129472 drwxr-x--x 20 root tonyx 512 Jun 5 13:00 .. who belongs to this group? > 49134586 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 6206 Jun 13 2010 COPYRIGHT > 49134587 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 442 Jun 13 2010 LOCKS > 49134588 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 6659 Jun 13 2010 MAINTAINERS > 49134589 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 12990 Jun 13 2010 Makefile > 49134590 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 42773 Jun 13 2010 Makefile.inc1 > 49134591 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 230253 Jun 13 2010 ObsoleteFiles.inc > 49134592 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 3087 Jun 13 2010 README > 49134593 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 69779 Sep 20 2010 UPDATING > 49698048 drwxr-xr-x 40 root wheel 1024 Oct 28 2010 bin > 49133812 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 443 May 28 2011 bind.patch > 49133815 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 185 May 28 2011 bind.patch.asc > 49134439 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 2832 Dec 23 2011 bind8.patch > 49133792 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 885 Sep 20 2010 bzip2.patch What are those files doing here? > 49698539 drwxr-xr-x 8 root wheel 512 Oct 28 2010 cddl > 49133586 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 6549 Dec 23 2011 chroot8.patch Again ... > 49959740 drwxr-xr-x 208 root wheel 4096 Jun 2 20:13 usr.sbin The access rights seem all to be right. > CyberTech# ls -lia /usr/ > total 592 > 49129472 drwxr-x--x 20 root tonyx 512 Jun 5 13:00 . > 2 drwx--x--x 23 root wheel 512 Jun 18 21:45 .. > 49133557 lrwxr-xr-x 1 root tonyx 10 Oct 31 2010 X11R6 -> > /usr/local 49129473 drwxr-xr-x 2 root 1001 7680 Jun 18 21:40 bin > 49626757 drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Oct 28 2010 compat > 49653185 drwxr-xr-x 24 root wheel 1024 Oct 28 2010 doc > 49626758 drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Oct 28 2010 games > 49270825 drwx--x--x 10 root wheel 512 Jun 22 05:01 home I would use 755 for home. You can keep here wheel as the group. > 49129474 drwxr-xr-x 47 root 1001 5120 Oct 28 2010 include > 49129475 drwxr-xr-x 6 root 1001 11776 May 30 21:17 lib > 49129476 drwxr-xr-x 5 root 1001 512 Jul 18 2010 libdata > 49129477 drwxr-xr-x 5 root 1001 1536 Dec 28 05:45 libexec What was group 1001? In /usr all should be owned by wheel. > 49129478 drwxr-xr-x 18 root wheel 512 May 31 22:21 local > 49626759 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 512 Oct 28 2010 obj > 49176576 drwx--x--x 69 root wheel 1536 Nov 5 2010 ports I would not set the access rights like this for ports but it should be no harm. Do you know why it is like this? > 49158174 drwx--x--x 3 root tonyx 512 May 20 07:56 rscr > 49134479 -rw-r--r-- 1 root tonyx 517120 Jun 5 13:00 rscr.tar What is group tonyx? > 49129481 drwx------ 22 root wheel 1024 Jan 7 02:27 src The same as ports. > 49698045 drwxr-xr-x 5 root wheel 512 Oct 28 2010 sup > 49155246 drwxr-xr-x 2 root tonyx 512 Oct 28 2010 uscr Why is there a uscr there? > CyberTech# It seems that your are from a small island. > > Can you help me Sir to find out what is going on in my machine. It will be difficult to fix this from distance! Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 07:19:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E4B4106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:19:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C86258FC0C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:19:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5N7JOTB031107; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:19:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5N7JOhB031104; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:19:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:19:24 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chad Perrin In-Reply-To: <20120622235819.GA7876@hemlock.hydra> Message-ID: References: <402199FE-380B-41B6-866B-7D5D66C457D5@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <20120621015237.GB58187@neutralgood.org> <20120622044212.GC24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120622235819.GA7876@hemlock.hydra> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:19:25 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why Clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:19:34 -0000 >> I am not sure, as long as clients would be treated seriously! > > I look at large corporate software vendors and see them treating > customers seriously maybe 2% of the time at best. In this case, most of I assumed FreeBSD team are OK and would fit in this 2% or even those 0.2% am i wrong? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 07:21:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E1201065674; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:21:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de) Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC7FA8FC16; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:21:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1SiKf1-0003kT-5x>; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:21:35 +0200 Received: from e178019186.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.19.186] helo=thor.walstatt.dyndns.org) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1SiKf0-0008Kb-VP>; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:21:35 +0200 Message-ID: <4FE56E78.8010000@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:21:28 +0200 From: "O. Hartmann" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120619 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hans Petter Selasky References: <4FE40A42.6010503@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <201206220822.19486.hselasky@c2i.net> In-Reply-To: <201206220822.19486.hselasky@c2i.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig584D47E519C615C3D36026F7" X-Originating-IP: 85.178.19.186 Cc: Garrett Cooper , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:21:42 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig584D47E519C615C3D36026F7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 06/22/12 08:22, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On Friday 22 June 2012 08:01:38 O. Hartmann wrote: >> I have a USB drive/stick, Lexar USB Flash drive as reported by FreeBSD= >> shown below. >> When first used, I was able to put approx. 30 GB of data on it - it wa= s >> visible to FreeBSD 9 and 10 as expected. >> A Linux system at the lab was also capable of recognizing it. After >> that, I tried to operate on the stick on a Notebook, FreeBSD 9, and >> another station, FreeBSD 10. But FreeBSD didn't recognize the USB driv= e >> anymore - sometimes, but this seems to be a gambling issue :-( >> >> Trying Linux on different hardware platforms and even those machines >> prior not recognizing the USB drive do recognize the drive as Lexar US= B >> Flash drive with 64GB. That is Suse Linux (some 12.XX), that is Ubuntu= >> 12.04, that is Windows 7 Pro/x64. I can format the drive, I can push a= nd >> pull data from it. >> >> So, since the USB drive won't work with three different FreeBSD boxes >> (one running 9-STABLE, two 10-CURRENT, all systems most recent sources= >> and buildworld from a day ago). >> I suspect either a weird configuration issue I use on all platforms in= >> questions in common triggering the weird beviour - or FreeBSD is simpl= y >> incapable of handling the 64GB drive. I do not have issues with USB >> drives with capacities of 32, 8 or 4 GB of different brands. >> >> As shown in the portion of the dmesg below, the USB drive is recognize= d >> physically. It doesn't matter whether USB port I use (I tried all >> available on all boxes and in most cases I use a Dell UltraSharp power= ed >> in-screen HUB). Since other OSes handle the drive as expected, I exclu= de >> hardware issues. >> >> All FreeBSD in common is the fact I use the new device ahaci/device at= a >> CAM/ATA scheme with devcie scbus in the kernel (I use custom kernels!)= =2E >> >> Apart from trying a GENERIC kernel (which is next I will do this >> weekend), does anyone have similar experiences and probably solutions?= >> >> Regards, >> oh >> >> ugen7.6: at usbus7 >> umass1: on >> usbus7 (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 >> (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an e= rror >> (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command >> (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 >> (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an e= rror >> (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command >> (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 >> (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an e= rror >> (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command >> (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 >> (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an e= rror >> (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command >> (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 >> (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an e= rror >> (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Error 5, Retries exhausted >=20 > Hi, >=20 > After plugging the device, try: >=20 > usbconfig -d 7.6 add_quirk UQ_MSC_NO_INQUIRY >=20 > Then re-plug it. >=20 > I'm sorry to say a lot of USB flash sticks out there are broken and onl= y=20 > tested with the timing of MS Windows. Part of the problem is that it is= =20 > difficult to autodetect these issues, because once you trigger the non-= > supported SCSI command, then the flash key stops working like you exper= ience. >=20 > I would be more than glad to open up an office to certify USB devices f= or use=20 > with FreeBSD :-) >=20 > --HPS >=20 I tried the USB drive this morning with the recommended quirk shown above on FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT #1 r237462: Sat Jun 23 01:00:35 CEST 2012 without success. I get the same error message as shown above. With or without quirk. I then started Windows 7 on the same box. The USB drive is seen as expected and reflects what I experienced on every other non-FreeBSD box and hardware in the lab on last week. I reformatted the USB drive with extFAT and standard block size on Windows 7. The USB drive is now seen again on FreeBSD and recognized as a drive. "Seen" in my sloppy terminology means: recognized as a disk. The hardware is recognized, but it is not recognized as a drive. The fact, that the very first time after I bought that USB drive, I was able to put several GB on it, use it on both FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT, and then it broke, drives me nuts. Using the very same pen drive on other OSes even on the same hardware without issues makes me believe FreeBSD does have an issue, not the USB drive. I will fill the USB drive with data and try to use it very often on FreeBSD. Last time the error occured, it was read by a Suse Linux box. If I wouldn't know better I would say Linux tries to kill the USB drive =2E.. But Linux did see it all the time. A "usual customer" would see it the same way, I guess. I will test and report next week when I have access to the other boxes and OSes again. Regards, Oliver --------------enig584D47E519C615C3D36026F7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJP5W5+AAoJEOgBcD7A/5N8S08IAMoRaVBo8yBtSqfevZxlO74I sudU6TJxvi1OTgbo2C94dndlCiepIPypoB4b96V3oEoCnRyed5oWei+Z97q7kbcF fQgOkWuG19GPfTGHpB6QZQhh5KVs/1U3sJliT01IYjyBnUwtTrnbE4i/l5yhfUXs nvorZZORQBasx9MUldeD1CLnN3lVUhqyARMMgewmMCn5OhZtbK5EV6c4+sIiZ6ux eFA1r25aK2TjsHzaJauGydRfveyeXwVP9+KSlrg5bYRb8/mZd/duoN8BARzqUg/b LnoTLZ92lu8Fy0NnM5z1Eb4On/ifZJe0FwqRIvlDdgIxZpWFbERzlZyCVKrx0Ls= =009J -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig584D47E519C615C3D36026F7-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 07:34:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3948F1065670 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:34:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AF878FC0A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:34:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5N7Xvjm020135; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 01:33:58 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: RetspaN Code , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:33:56 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <1340379530.49640.YahooMailNeo@web190402.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> <201206231402.34973.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> <1340436058.42871.YahooMailNeo@web190405.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1340436058.42871.YahooMailNeo@web190405.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206231433.56299.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: Subject: Re: I have a problem to my server running under FreeBSD 8.1 p-1 release X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:34:00 -0000 Hi, On Saturday 23 June 2012 14:20:58 RetspaN Code wrote: > > That was before. and i notice most of files on / directory is not own by > wheel group. :( i try to chown but still not done. can u tell me why that > happen? all in / has to be owned by root:wheel. Who else has had root access and might have left the company since then? Erich > > Thanks! Erich > > Regards, > > FredFoxs > > > ________________________________ > From: Erich Dollansky > To: RetspaN Code ; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 3:02 PM > Subject: Re: I have a problem to my server running under FreeBSD 8.1 p-1 > release > > Hi, > > On Saturday 23 June 2012 13:41:24 RetspaN Code wrote: > > 49129472 drwxr-x--x 20 root tonyx 512 Jun 5 13:00 .. > > who belongs to this group? > > > 49134586 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 6206 Jun 13 2010 COPYRIGHT > > 49134587 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 442 Jun 13 2010 LOCKS > > 49134588 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 6659 Jun 13 2010 MAINTAINERS > > 49134589 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 12990 Jun 13 2010 Makefile > > 49134590 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 42773 Jun 13 2010 Makefile.inc1 > > 49134591 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 230253 Jun 13 2010 > > ObsoleteFiles.inc 49134592 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 3087 Jun 13 > > 2010 README 49134593 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 69779 Sep 20 2010 > > UPDATING 49698048 drwxr-xr-x 40 root wheel 1024 Oct 28 2010 bin > > 49133812 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 443 May 28 2011 bind.patch > > 49133815 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 185 May 28 2011 bind.patch.asc > > 49134439 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 2832 Dec 23 2011 bind8.patch > > 49133792 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 885 Sep 20 2010 bzip2.patch > > What are those files doing here? > > > 49698539 drwxr-xr-x 8 root wheel 512 Oct 28 2010 cddl > > 49133586 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 6549 Dec 23 2011 chroot8.patch > > Again ... > > > 49959740 drwxr-xr-x 208 root wheel 4096 Jun 2 20:13 usr.sbin > > The access rights seem all to be right. > > > CyberTech# ls -lia /usr/ > > total 592 > > 49129472 drwxr-x--x 20 root tonyx 512 Jun 5 13:00 . > > > > 2 drwx--x--x 23 root wheel 512 Jun 18 21:45 .. > > > > 49133557 lrwxr-xr-x 1 root tonyx 10 Oct 31 2010 X11R6 -> > > /usr/local 49129473 drwxr-xr-x 2 root 1001 7680 Jun 18 21:40 bin > > 49626757 drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Oct 28 2010 compat > > 49653185 drwxr-xr-x 24 root wheel 1024 Oct 28 2010 doc > > 49626758 drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Oct 28 2010 games > > 49270825 drwx--x--x 10 root wheel 512 Jun 22 05:01 home > > I would use 755 for home. You can keep here wheel as the group. > > > 49129474 drwxr-xr-x 47 root 1001 5120 Oct 28 2010 include > > 49129475 drwxr-xr-x 6 root 1001 11776 May 30 21:17 lib > > 49129476 drwxr-xr-x 5 root 1001 512 Jul 18 2010 libdata > > 49129477 drwxr-xr-x 5 root 1001 1536 Dec 28 05:45 libexec > > What was group 1001? In /usr all should be owned by wheel. > > > 49129478 drwxr-xr-x 18 root wheel 512 May 31 22:21 local > > 49626759 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 512 Oct 28 2010 obj > > 49176576 drwx--x--x 69 root wheel 1536 Nov 5 2010 ports > > I would not set the access rights like this for ports but it should be no > harm. Do you know why it is like this? > > > 49158174 drwx--x--x 3 root tonyx 512 May 20 07:56 rscr > > 49134479 -rw-r--r-- 1 root tonyx 517120 Jun 5 13:00 rscr.tar > > What is group tonyx? > > > 49129481 drwx------ 22 root wheel 1024 Jan 7 02:27 src > > The same as ports. > > > 49698045 drwxr-xr-x 5 root wheel 512 Oct 28 2010 sup > > 49155246 drwxr-xr-x 2 root tonyx 512 Oct 28 2010 uscr > > Why is there a uscr there? > > > CyberTech# > > It seems that your are from a small island. > > > Can you help me Sir to find out what is going on in my machine. > > It will be difficult to fix this from distance! > > Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 07:47:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1EBC1065672 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:47:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hoomanfazaeli@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B918FC1B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:47:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so5548481lbo.13 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:47:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MqR2NgMRyjuZt2gORhvebUYpezmHoMlKR0LZKI/kHC4=; b=nZ3P9lwQ4BKxNdo73+S2YzAf6Ih4mKCapG9k1bQm+gI4DS+DnW6yrONCUp5bztMFrg XUd/nUIAeMromPy4feTcikIH6qKX7hVIlioZgqcbdDh1HE31AN36HZUZYIAGqM1Ef9UQ Q3PRumSShlGwJFPjBWjU7/Khp8nBqIUs9qARPxLvutw/LXcqVN0kYInsrAg6g6bXJIZi CJFpRcrG5Q5E96/BfHwPhe5VetF75Z+ON+53Kw4Q3JkvZnaRZDPBmUf3Tfjp8C7UR7Og 5LCMHXwoPIsSe3TEcKHdMc8XYlglo8NqNtoMTDr/CXCa+NuXVQ4wGBGoXchIA9/JyZwd eoRA== Received: by 10.112.49.227 with SMTP id x3mr2658993lbn.73.1340437644019; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([84.241.57.181]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n7sm1134850lbk.10.2012.06.23.00.47.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 00:47:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE57481.90601@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:17:13 +0430 From: Hooman Fazaeli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.28) Gecko/20120306 Thunderbird/3.1.20 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <4FE32C16.3050205@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:47:25 -0000 I meant, is it now possible to have >2TB FS with UFS? On 6/21/2012 6:54 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Hooman Fazaeli wrote: > >> On 6/21/2012 4:22 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>> stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. >>> And it works fast. >>> >> What options are there for >2TB file systems with UFS? >> > the same as for <2TB filesystems. > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 07:49:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94D2310656D4 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:49:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E31928FC18 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:49:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5N7ndr5031193; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:49:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5N7ndjk031190; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:49:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:49:39 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: herbert langhans In-Reply-To: <20120623064727.GA11101@manul.langhans.com.pl> Message-ID: References: <20120623023022.5993A106572F@hub.freebsd.org> <20120623064727.GA11101@manul.langhans.com.pl> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:49:40 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:49:40 -0000 > Maybe take a look at lftp, at the mirror option. For basic demands its a > compact solution. try doing backup of things with 10000 dirs and million files and certainly you will understand you need rsync. ftp protocol is plain bad for that. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 07:55:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F7D106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:55:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DD3D8FC14 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:55:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5N7tIsN031220; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:55:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5N7tIVO031217; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:55:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:55:18 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Hooman Fazaeli In-Reply-To: <4FE57481.90601@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <4FE32C16.3050205@gmail.com> <4FE57481.90601@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:55:18 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:55:18 -0000 > I meant, is it now possible to have >2TB FS with UFS? UFS2 is here since IMHO year 2005. Now the only problem is fsck time. actually IMHO fsck can be improved a lot but someone must have time and will to do this. if parallelism would be exploited on gstripe type(*) volumes then it should take less than 30 minutes no matter how large the volume is. Anyway - even with UFS which is the most fault-resilent filesystem i know - i would not recommend creating gstripe type volumes taking too many disks for the reason i already explained. For now softupdates+journal is fine, you actually have to do full fsck now and then, but at spare time. *) gstripe type means gstripe, gstripe+gmirror, graid5, graid5+gstripe, hardware matrix controller with any type of RAID configuration. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 07:58:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF004106566C; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:58:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A21A8FC08; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:58:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5N7wcwJ031229; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:58:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5N7wc63031226; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:58:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:58:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: "O. Hartmann" In-Reply-To: <4FE56E78.8010000@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Message-ID: References: <4FE40A42.6010503@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <201206220822.19486.hselasky@c2i.net> <4FE56E78.8010000@zedat.fu-berlin.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:58:39 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Garrett Cooper , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:58:42 -0000 > and hardware in the lab on last week. > I reformatted the USB drive with extFAT and standard block size on > Windows 7. The USB drive is now seen again on FreeBSD and recognized as this points that the pendrive's controller is not just flaky but horrid. The communiation with OS, and how/whether it is configured properly should not depend on what data is written to it - in your case exFAT metadata. It seems that controller manufacturer just did something "to run on windows and linux" instead of something that conform to USB mass storage interface standard :( Sorry but it may be hopeless case. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 08:00:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F081065675 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:00:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rsmith@xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.21]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF238FC15 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:00:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from slackbox.erewhon.net (slackbox.xs4all.nl [213.84.242.160]) by smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q5N7xTPX019799; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:59:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from rsmith@xs4all.nl) Received: by slackbox.erewhon.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D58E112356; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:59:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:59:28 +0200 From: Roland Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120623075928.GA19093@slackbox.erewhon.net> References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jRHKVT23PllUwdXP" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> X-GPG-Fingerprint: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 X-GPG-Key: http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/pubkey.txt X-GPG-Notice: If this message is not signed, don't assume I sent it! User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: Chad Perrin Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:00:04 -0000 --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 06:37:17PM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:47:40PM +0200, Roland Smith wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:09:03AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: > > > I'm setting up a "new" backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used = for > > > backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any > > > kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by > > > cron or other scheduled procedures. > >=20 > > What are the laptops running? >=20 > FreeBSD, Debian, and/or Ubuntu. There's at least one of each. I > apologize for not mentioning that sooner. I had a feeling I'd overlook > something. Hmm, I'm not sure that there is _anything_ that meets _all_ your criteria! For backing up complete systems (including boot blocks) I've used Clonezilla Live to good effect. On the several standalone systems I tried it on, it managed around 1 GiB/minute, backing up to a USB HDD. It can also back-up t= o a ssh, samba or nfs server. Of course this doesn't do incremental backups, and it is GPL. If you don't care about the OS, and just want to back up the user's data, I guess rsync would be the way to go. This in turn will not save the boot blo= ck, although you could use dd for that I guess. Roland --=20 R.F.Smith http://rsmith.home.xs4all.nl/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/ld2AACgkQEnfvsMMhpyUsTQCeNWYbhNsVnQ7RnPhJiokf6LSH HY4AmgPxElrUMc0W/kdYiatzqXTr0qhm =0dNk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 08:07:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E22C106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:07:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B6C38FC0A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:07:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5N87mNk031328; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:07:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5N87mNH031325; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:07:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:07:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Roland Smith In-Reply-To: <20120623075928.GA19093@slackbox.erewhon.net> Message-ID: References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> <20120623075928.GA19093@slackbox.erewhon.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:07:49 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Chad Perrin , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:07:52 -0000 > > Hmm, I'm not sure that there is _anything_ that meets _all_ your criteria! rsync meets. It can be a little harder with windoze, with any unix-like OS it will work. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 08:08:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB6C106566B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:08:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller23@insightbb.com) Received: from mail.insightbb.com (smtp2.insight.synacor.com [208.47.185.24]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80FAA8FC18 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:08:59 +0000 (UTC) X_CMAE_Category: 0,0 Undefined,Undefined X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=86GbDLi7NS7TegNzg0A2mmhQWIv0QOIIryOgdPqEZ2g= c=1 sm=0 a=3zKRBVKQwGQA:10 a=jLN7EqiLvroA:10 a=nT6IpGAKAAAA:8 a=dOzv2bhOOjix-5yF4O0A:9 a=Q/oqmR4JO1zR3vNQamCQeQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Authentication-Results: smtp02.insight.synacor.com header.from=mueller23@insightbb.com; sender-id=softfail Authentication-Results: smtp02.insight.synacor.com smtp.mail=mueller23@insightbb.com; spf=softfail; sender-id=softfail Received-SPF: softfail (smtp02.insight.synacor.com: transitional domain insightbb.com does not designate 74.134.26.53 as permitted sender) Received: from [74.134.26.53] ([74.134.26.53:45476] helo=localhost) by mail.insightbb.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.40 r(29895/29896)) with ESMTP id 3A/82-12873-59975EF4; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:08:53 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:08:53 -0400 Message-ID: <3A.82.12873.59975EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> From: "Thomas Mueller" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:08:59 -0000 > My elder colleague often told me that it is the easiest and well-working way > to check whether the one is certified to work for Mac OS X to get USB mass > storage devices which work with *BSD :) > Just my 5 yen, -|-__ YAMAMOTO, Taku | __ < What if a USB mass storage device works with some BSDs but not all? I had Kingston Data Travelers, 2 GB, from one lot that were good with Linux and FreeBSD but not NetBSD. Other USB sticks, including Kingston Data Tavelers, worked with Linux, FreeBSD and NetBSD. I even installed FreeDOS 1.1 prerelease on one of those NetBSD-averse Kingstom Data Travelers. But I think either Mac OS X, Linux or FreeBSD is much more production-ready than NetBSD. > There are 3 drivers, one for 3.0, 2.0 and 1.0, and they are associated to > corresponding devices at boot. I'll play around with it this weekend and > see how to switch, i've also noticed issue connecting 2.0 device to 3.0 > port. > Waitman Gobble > San Jose California USA I don't think I ever tried to connect a USB 2.0 device to 3.0 port, but I tried the opposite. My Western Digital My Book Essential 3.0 TB USB 3.0 drive works even on the old computer whose motherboard's USB is 1.1. I tried to access that USB 3.0 hard drive on the new computer from USB 2.0 port because NetBSD has no USB 3.0 support: no go. But when I installed USB 2.0 brackets to USB 2.0 headers on the motherboard, the USB 3.0 hard drive was accessible from those USB 2.0 ports. Tom From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 08:16:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA37B106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:16:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D2418FC0A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:16:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5N8GQr7031394; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:16:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5N8GQVX031391; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:16:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:16:26 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Thomas Mueller In-Reply-To: <3A.82.12873.59975EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> Message-ID: References: <3A.82.12873.59975EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:16:27 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:16:26 -0000 > What if a USB mass storage device works with some BSDs but not all? well the only thing i never experiences with USB pendrives is a one that works everytime properly. Everything else is possible. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 08:21:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36DB61065672 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:21:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@m.gmane.org) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1D538FC12 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:21:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SiLav-0005IN-R2 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:21:25 +0200 Received: from pool-173-79-82-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([173.79.82.23]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:21:25 +0200 Received: from nightrecon by pool-173-79-82-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:21:25 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Michael Powell Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:21:13 -0400 Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <4FE32C16.3050205@gmail.com> <4FE57481.90601@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-173-79-82-23.washdc.fios.verizon.net Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: nightrecon@hotmail.com List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:21:28 -0000 Hooman Fazaeli wrote: > > I meant, is it now possible to have >2TB FS with UFS? > Yes. The 2TB limitation so many are used to applies more to the tools than the UFS2 file system itself. UFS2 has a max volume size of 2^73, or 8 Zeta-Bytes. If you utilize the old Dos MBR scheme with old fdisk and disklabel tools you will still face the 2TB volume limit. Use Gpart, Glabel, and GPT partitioning instead. A quick and short example: http://www.mebsd.com/configure-freebsd-servers/big-partitions-in-freebsd-bigger-than-2tb.html However, fsck'ing such large volumes will take considerable time if such a thing needs doing. There is the new "Soft-update plus Journaling" coming along with the advent of 9.x, which is supposed to ameliorate this. Not completely sold on it yet, as I don't have enough knowledge/experience yet. Some may say "it's not just quite ready for prime time yet", but I don't really know definitively myself. [snip] -Mike From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 08:22:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 405E31065680 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:22:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19798FC19 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:22:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-102-5.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.102.5]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA013CFE4; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:22:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q5N8M4Ha003222; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:22:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:22:04 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Wojciech Puchar Message-Id: <20120623102204.3c8bd0f8.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20120623023022.5993A106572F@hub.freebsd.org> <20120623064727.GA11101@manul.langhans.com.pl> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: herbert langhans , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:22:07 -0000 On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:49:39 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > Maybe take a look at lftp, at the mirror option. For basic demands its a > > compact solution. > > try doing backup of things with 10000 dirs and million files and certainly > you will understand you need rsync. In addition to rsync, which is regarded the default tool for the described action, maybe cpdup is worth looking at. It also has the ability to maintain "incremental" backups (add changes). > ftp protocol is plain bad for that. And insecure unless tunneled through some encryption (which might be important when backups appear inside a network with non-trusted participants, or across the Internet). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 08:27:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAE2D1065670 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:27:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BFB08FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:27:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5N8RP53031780; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 02:27:26 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: RetspaN Code , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:27:24 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <1340379530.49640.YahooMailNeo@web190402.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> <201206231433.56299.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> <1340437458.85679.YahooMailNeo@web190405.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1340437458.85679.YahooMailNeo@web190405.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206231527.24629.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: Subject: Re: I have a problem to my server running under FreeBSD 8.1 p-1 release X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:27:28 -0000 Hi, On Saturday 23 June 2012 14:44:18 RetspaN Code wrote: > > I did own now by root:wheel but now i'm under on ddos attack. :( but still > not yet done the exploit not yet remove. > > too lag my server due to ddos attack. > the server must be off-line if you want to have the tiniest chance to get it back again. Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 08:35:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CAA4106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:35:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC6A18FC12 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:35:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5N8Zppq032788; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:35:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5N8Zpb9032785; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:35:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:35:51 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Michael Powell In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <4FE32C16.3050205@gmail.com> <4FE57481.90601@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:35:51 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:35:51 -0000 > However, fsck'ing such large volumes will take considerable time if such a > thing needs doing. There is the new "Soft-update plus Journaling" coming > along with the advent of 9.x, which is supposed to ameliorate this. Not it is far from perfect. But fine to use it. Just DO full fsck every some time. Fortunately it would be planned outage instead of unplanned. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 09:01:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3014E106566B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:01:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from w3@langhans.com.pl) Received: from langhans.com.pl (host-194126238033.net-serwis.pl [194.126.238.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8058FC1E for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:01:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by langhans.com.pl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D64FD234EEC1; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:01:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:01:08 +0200 From: herbert langhans To: Polytropon Message-ID: <20120623090108.GA11537@manul.langhans.com.pl> References: <20120623023022.5993A106572F@hub.freebsd.org> <20120623064727.GA11101@manul.langhans.com.pl> <20120623102204.3c8bd0f8.freebsd@edvax.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120623102204.3c8bd0f8.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Wojciech Puchar , herbert langhans , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:01:12 -0000 lftp does work incremental. Take a look at Chad's posting again and read what he needs. And of course, ftp via ssh is nothing new ... Cheers herb langhans On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 10:22:04AM +0200, Polytropon wrote: > On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:49:39 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > Maybe take a look at lftp, at the mirror option. For basic demands its a > > > compact solution. > > > > try doing backup of things with 10000 dirs and million files and certainly > > you will understand you need rsync. > > In addition to rsync, which is regarded the default tool for > the described action, maybe cpdup is worth looking at. It also > has the ability to maintain "incremental" backups (add changes). > > > > > ftp protocol is plain bad for that. > > And insecure unless tunneled through some encryption (which might > be important when backups appear inside a network with non-trusted > participants, or across the Internet). > > > > -- > Polytropon > Magdeburg, Germany > Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 > Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... -- sprachtraining langhans herbert langhans, warschau herbert.raimund[at]gmx.net herbert[at]langhans.com.pl http://www.langhans.com.pl +0048 603 341 441 | jabber:herbs | icq:414500866 | yahoo_im:herbert.raimund From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 09:10:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B73BA1065687 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:10:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F34AE8FC16 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:10:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5N9A6e2032904; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:10:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5N9A6qm032901; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:10:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:10:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: herbert langhans In-Reply-To: <20120623090108.GA11537@manul.langhans.com.pl> Message-ID: References: <20120623023022.5993A106572F@hub.freebsd.org> <20120623064727.GA11101@manul.langhans.com.pl> <20120623102204.3c8bd0f8.freebsd@edvax.de> <20120623090108.GA11537@manul.langhans.com.pl> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:10:06 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:10:12 -0000 > lftp does work incremental. Take a look at Chad's posting again and read > what he needs. And of course, ftp via ssh is nothing new ... still - any ftp client will no go faster than ftp protocol allows. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 09:17:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A8F31065672 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:17:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from herbert.raimund@langhans.com.pl) Received: from langhans.com.pl (host-194126238033.net-serwis.pl [194.126.238.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0619B8FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:17:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by langhans.com.pl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 46140234EEC1; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:17:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:17:36 +0200 From: herbert langhans To: Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <20120623091736.GA8640@manul.langhans.com.pl> References: <20120623023022.5993A106572F@hub.freebsd.org> <20120623064727.GA11101@manul.langhans.com.pl> <20120623102204.3c8bd0f8.freebsd@edvax.de> <20120623090108.GA11537@manul.langhans.com.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Polytropon , herbert langhans , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:17:37 -0000 On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 11:10:06AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >lftp does work incremental. Take a look at Chad's posting again and read > >what he needs. And of course, ftp via ssh is nothing new ... > still - any ftp client will no go faster than ftp protocol allows. That's sure. But I think it's an option for the laptops what Chad mentioned. Such scripts for backup are set up in minutes and it happily copies the files to the server. If there are already user accounts on the server, it could be really easy. I think it depends on the scale of the network. Cheers herb langhans From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 09:38:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF59B106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:38:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nec556@retena.com) Received: from resmaa13.ono.com (smtp13.ono.com [62.42.230.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52DD58FC0A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:38:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from GogPortatil.retena.com (37.11.165.133) by resmaa13.ono.com (8.5.113) (authenticated as nec556@retena.com) id 4FA8827200C1EDC7 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:38:21 +0200 Message-ID: <4FA8827200C1EDC7@> (added by postmaster@resmaa13.ono.com) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:41:01 +0200 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Eduardo Morras In-Reply-To: <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 2012.0.2180 [2437/5087] Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:38:22 -0000 At 02:37 23/06/2012, Chad Perrin wrote: >On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:47:40PM +0200, Roland Smith wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:09:03AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: > > > I'm setting up a "new" backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used for > > > backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any > > > kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by > > > cron or other scheduled procedures. > > > > What are the laptops running? > >FreeBSD, Debian, and/or Ubuntu. There's at least one of each. I >apologize for not mentioning that sooner. I had a feeling I'd overlook >something. If it must work with all OS and you have no restrictions on network you can: a) activate PXE/WOL on bios b) start the laptop via PXE using a freebsd/linux/whatever_os_you_want_to_use c) use dd piped to rsync to make the backups This way you don't need to install anything on your freebsd ubuntu debian. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 09:52:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A445E1065672; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:52:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FEE88FC0A; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:52:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so3561720dad.13 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 02:52:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=QEUCED9Ol+0GcywsNda1xSf0VgbrMG/TZh6kAnthx3E=; b=WyEvFTBll+vhfa8XWrkAzxeiWx2Xp2fILvVkbNJq3qixSG09kDAsnItX3QorJsyknV wAjveJWCrZ2r2HYfK0GtRoxgvRIxSDP/IfnCzsK7F1Y+/+v2PyQzbS2XvJdMY1CLYts4 secYPqjQZ1AjzV1cqQV0LNsLc2t+h8yPyOGvN6hQ+TLLUXP9PQDeLbh5KRkljiladoYC 7LYB6D8l7adzbAZl++3BEgvZxi6fBlh8sGlX7V6HJNalVy9DLlQOW93bJLUj8ywtlBC3 fbNT+3rqHX5+Sb1OzmdLKqs2A1b0AiD//rIKe1mDtjDV+3a9JhSfRZCa18i31d3ouva8 +9pA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.213.234 with SMTP id nv10mr19303704pbc.56.1340445173244; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 02:52:53 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.142.147.18 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 02:52:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201206220822.19486.hselasky@c2i.net> References: <4FE40A42.6010503@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <201206220822.19486.hselasky@c2i.net> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 02:52:53 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: X7EO_LU5Zqa5klJFcpKsrqIqkXk Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Hans Petter Selasky Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, "O. Hartmann" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:52:53 -0000 On 21 June 2012 23:22, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > usbconfig -d 7.6 add_quirk UQ_MSC_NO_INQUIRY > > Then re-plug it. > > I'm sorry to say a lot of USB flash sticks out there are broken and only > tested with the timing of MS Windows. Part of the problem is that it is > difficult to autodetect these issues, because once you trigger the non- > supported SCSI command, then the flash key stops working like you experience. > > I would be more than glad to open up an office to certify USB devices for use > with FreeBSD :-) Question - if that's the case, then why are we even doing that by default? Adrian From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 10:02:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6306106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:02:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 424008FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:02:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NA2X38033073; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:02:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5NA2X4x033069; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:02:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:02:33 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: herbert langhans In-Reply-To: <20120623091736.GA8640@manul.langhans.com.pl> Message-ID: References: <20120623023022.5993A106572F@hub.freebsd.org> <20120623064727.GA11101@manul.langhans.com.pl> <20120623102204.3c8bd0f8.freebsd@edvax.de> <20120623090108.GA11537@manul.langhans.com.pl> <20120623091736.GA8640@manul.langhans.com.pl> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:02:33 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Polytropon , herbert langhans , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:02:34 -0000 > >> still - any ftp client will no go faster than ftp protocol allows. > > That's sure. But I think it's an option for the laptops what Chad only if $HOME directly or part of it is copied and nothing more From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 10:03:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAB7C1065672 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:03:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FBDF8FC22 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:03:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NA3jlY033083; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:03:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5NA3j0q033080; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:03:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:03:45 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Eduardo Morras In-Reply-To: <4FA8827200C1EDC7@> (added by postmaster@resmaa13.ono.com) Message-ID: References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> <4FA8827200C1EDC7@> (added by postmaster@resmaa13.ono.com) User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:03:45 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:03:45 -0000 > a) activate PXE/WOL on bios > > b) start the laptop via PXE using a freebsd/linux/whatever_os_you_want_to_use > > c) use dd piped to rsync to make the backups not really efficient but working. ntfsprogs from ports can be helpful. you may use ntfsmount and access NTFS files directly. if backup is done over fast LAN, ntfsclone -s is useful From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 10:57:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D481106564A; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:57:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe07.c2i.net [212.247.154.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4608FC15; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:57:25 +0000 (UTC) X-T2-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED Received: from [176.74.212.201] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop015.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe07.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPA id 289511158; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:57:18 +0200 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:56:59 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/9.0-STABLE; KDE/4.7.4; amd64; ; ) References: <4FE40A42.6010503@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <201206220822.19486.hselasky@c2i.net> In-Reply-To: X-Face: 'mmZ:T{)),Oru^0c+/}w'`gU1$ubmG?lp!=R4Wy\ELYo2)@'UZ24N@d2+AyewRX}mAm; Yp |U[@, _z/([?1bCfM{_"B<.J>mICJCHAzzGHI{y7{%JVz%R~yJHIji`y>Y}k1C4TfysrsUI -%GU9V5]iUZF&nRn9mJ'?&>O MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <201206231256.59343.hselasky@c2i.net> Cc: Adrian Chadd , "O. Hartmann" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:57:26 -0000 On Saturday 23 June 2012 11:52:53 Adrian Chadd wrote: > On 21 June 2012 23:22, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > usbconfig -d 7.6 add_quirk UQ_MSC_NO_INQUIRY > >=20 > > Then re-plug it. > >=20 > > I'm sorry to say a lot of USB flash sticks out there are broken and only > > tested with the timing of MS Windows. Part of the problem is that it is > > difficult to autodetect these issues, because once you trigger the non- > > supported SCSI command, then the flash key stops working like you > > experience. > >=20 > > I would be more than glad to open up an office to certify USB devices f= or > > use with FreeBSD :-) >=20 > Question - if that's the case, then why are we even doing that by default? >=20 Hi, Do you want a blacklist or do you want a whitelist? Please explain the pros= =20 and cons. I believe that those that program wrong shall be held responsible for that = and=20 given a chance to clean up, and not the opposite way around. As a senior=20 programmer I can only testify that many people care equally little about wh= at=20 their computer is made of and what they eat. We probably need a control bod= y=20 to certify USB devices that is cheaper than USB.org, simply put. I think it is a bad idea to cripple all USB SCSI devices because what looks= =20 like the majority do not obey the rules of the specifications they are=20 supposed to support. Else we need to make a new USB SCSI class for devices= =20 that are certified and one for devices that are not certified. Non-certifie= d=20 devices can have a limited SCSI command set, which should be implemented in= =20 the CAM layer like some kind of flag. If we could join heads on the Linux guys on this, we might be able to do=20 something! Like having a pop-up every time a USB device fails certain tests. =46rom the history we can predict what people will do when they do not know= what=20 they are doing. They will nail the guy doing it right and let the guy doing= it=20 wrong go free. And it seems like this happened before too ;-) I have a personal FreeBSD-native USB test utilty that runs mass storage=20 devices through a series of tests. Most USB mass storage devices I've teste= d=20 so far have obvious bugs, which either means their firmware can be hacked o= r=20 made to crash. Also worth noting, that many USB device are not certified at all. It might = be=20 clever to look for the USB logo from USB.org next time you want to transfer= X=20 GB of personal data from location X to Y. =2D-HPS From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 10:57:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC16710657D0 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:57:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 139D88FC12 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:57:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5DCBEEB5.dip.t-dialin.net [93.203.238.181]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5NAvX0q078277; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:57:34 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5NAvJvU013471; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:57:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5NAv1tF086046; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:57:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201206231057.q5NAv1tF086046@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Polytropon From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:22:29 +0200." <20120623042229.c5d8a8d8.freebsd@edvax.de> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:57:01 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: "Leonardo M. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ram=E9?=" , Free BSD Subject: Re: fsck_ufs running too often X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:57:40 -0000 > My suggestion: Set background_fsck="YES" in /etc/rc.conf and let > the system boot up that way. _If_ you have a faulty disk or other > data corruption, you'll notice this _before_ going multi-user and > maybe making things worse. Yes, it might take some time, but it's > time well invested in your data integrity. > > Alternative: Perform a "shutdown now" and go into single-user mode. > Then unmount all your file systems, do "mount -o ro /" and then > perform the fsck run on all file systems. It's typically adviced > to perform file system checks on unmounted (or at least read-only > mounted) file systems. man fsck: ----- Note that background fsck is limited to checking for only the most commonly occurring file system abnormalities. Under certain circumstances, some errors can escape background fsck. It is recommended that you perform foreground fsck on your systems periodically and whenever you encounter file-system-related pan- ics. --- So do a manual fsck to make sure there's no residual faults lurking. Realise fsck wont start if it thinks its clean, (but might not be clean) so Boot single user & type fsck or fsck -y PS /etc/rc.conf: fsck_y_enable="YES" # to regularly force clean if fsck asks # background_fsck="YES" # a trade off your decision Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 10:57:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D26211065823 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:57:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D338FC14 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:57:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5NAvcax002515; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:57:40 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:50:05 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <3A.82.12873.59975EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> In-Reply-To: <3A.82.12873.59975EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206231550.06081.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: Thomas Mueller Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:57:41 -0000 Hi, On Saturday 23 June 2012 15:08:53 Thomas Mueller wrote: > > I don't think I ever tried to connect a USB 2.0 device to 3.0 port, but I > tried the opposite. > I have here 2 hard disks and 2 flash drives with USB 2.0. Three of them work on FreeBSD on an USB 3.0 port. One hard disk only works on a USB 3.0 port. One hard drive with USB 3.0 does not work on USB 3.0 but only on 2.0. Irony is that the PCBSD installer installed PCBSD on the USB 3.0 disk but it did not boot afterward. > I tried to access that USB 3.0 hard drive on the new computer from USB 2.0 > port because NetBSD has no USB 3.0 support: no go. Let me check this out. > > But when I installed USB 2.0 brackets to USB 2.0 headers on the > motherboard, the USB 3.0 hard drive was accessible from those USB 2.0 > ports. > Same as in my case. USB is more a lottery than real computing for me. Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 11:02:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE46A106566B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:02:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F5D8FC14 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:02:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5NB2IKV003959; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 05:02:20 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: RetspaN Code , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:02:17 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <1340379530.49640.YahooMailNeo@web190402.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> <201206231527.24629.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> <1340440425.70680.YahooMailNeo@web190403.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1340440425.70680.YahooMailNeo@web190403.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206231802.17955.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: Subject: Re: I have a problem to my server running under FreeBSD 8.1 p-1 release X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:02:20 -0000 Hi, On Saturday 23 June 2012 15:33:45 RetspaN Code wrote: > also this.... > > 14417 ?? Ss 0:00.02 /bin/sh - /usr/sbin/periodic daily > 14425 ?? I 0:00.04 /bin/sh - /usr/sbin/periodic daily as long it is online, there is a very, very low chance to get anything done. And even when it is taken off-line, it will be difficult to stop all the programs in one go. This machine does not look good. Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 11:14:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4326E1065673 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:14:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 005F08FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:14:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-102-5.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.102.5]) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 293A32842C; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:13:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q5NBDsS4005333; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:13:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:13:54 +0200 From: Polytropon To: "Julian H. Stacey" Message-Id: <20120623131354.a6407d6c.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <201206231057.q5NAv1tF086046@fire.js.berklix.net> References: <20120623042229.c5d8a8d8.freebsd@edvax.de> <201206231057.q5NAv1tF086046@fire.js.berklix.net> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q? Leonardo_M._Ram=E9 ?=" , Free BSD Subject: Re: fsck_ufs running too often X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:14:02 -0000 On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:57:01 +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > My suggestion: Set background_fsck="YES" in /etc/rc.conf and let > > the system boot up that way. _If_ you have a faulty disk or other > > data corruption, you'll notice this _before_ going multi-user and > > maybe making things worse. Yes, it might take some time, but it's > > time well invested in your data integrity. > > > > Alternative: Perform a "shutdown now" and go into single-user mode. > > Then unmount all your file systems, do "mount -o ro /" and then > > perform the fsck run on all file systems. It's typically adviced > > to perform file system checks on unmounted (or at least read-only > > mounted) file systems. > > man fsck: > ----- > Note that background fsck is limited to checking for only the > most commonly occurring file system abnormalities. Under certain > circumstances, some errors can escape background fsck. It is > recommended that you perform foreground fsck on your systems > periodically and whenever you encounter file-system-related pan- > ics. > --- > > So do a manual fsck to make sure there's no residual faults lurking. Sorry, my own stupidity. Of course I wanted to say: My suggestion: Set background_fsck="NO" in /etc/rc.conf and [...] ^^ A fsck at boot time might take longer, but will make sure that the startup of the system is performed on clean file systems. One may argue: "But it takes time!" My response: Is your data valuable? Then you have this time, in worst case. In ultra-worst case, you have backups. :-) > Realise fsck wont start if it thinks its clean, (but might not be clean) so > Boot single user & type > fsck > or fsck -y You can force a fsck run by using "fsck -f"; from the manual: "Force checking of file systems, even when they are marked clean (for file systems that support this)." This could also be done regularly on a scheduled (!) basis if there's the suspection of "silent corruption" - but in such cases, better spot the faulty hardware and replace it (bad disks, bad power supply, bad PSU and the like). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 11:19:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56828106566B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:19:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F398FC1D for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:19:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhq56 with SMTP id 56so2332565yhq.17 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:19:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=pncj7jh4rRXOS62RT6HunZLqXJmcGujBbDp/wuD+DQ0=; b=OXy33CBzu1ZldjSRpI2bW7AmoxIehLO4O3q3fSp6uKasco3K46/HcpyaD0DmP4zgK0 uvEHSreZjmGWAPYLE+6/8teROdWy3WF6/JrrUHf0je9O2pxPq4u6xsmlLEC21YiKgwrd HHXUtnDejImEnnsOJojnyefwlF039m2K0tP+c= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=pncj7jh4rRXOS62RT6HunZLqXJmcGujBbDp/wuD+DQ0=; b=cyXfBU2x7fNDKMHKm7FW1Vnjmxd3Wsm4hH6/YHQKUHHMPVh31fhILFbaXCBb5SwVxa UxVfxksQ13pZBQZnVSvdCR4a55LnaPngfPfYdOaOI281Ib5Cv8t3LI8WQDWAmc+eWuoI odmqxq9ypg8sA1HBRDakLTmdQ+dV0l0OwXuMMxD6LwNDVCqhupXvdP/yMoFcTHnQIKos +D7Ekp64iJOccLvIVtJY8Yz2dBpxpeXQ3uUf3YYH8x9dsAa8fRPaL4gPjtwOM2EZjvPB /P21/cUqwJIqn3/5Y8UIdPveKF3LKin+zYoB9WIh84W7bTdHJyRaPi+R9ODOO2WEm+IR X8Tw== Received: by 10.101.180.36 with SMTP id h36mr1813630anp.39.1340450341273; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:19:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-076-182-104-150.nc.res.rr.com. [76.182.104.150]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d10sm51634505anm.17.2012.06.23.04.18.59 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@scorpio.seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3WKDg64Sf2z2CG5m for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:18:58 -0400 From: Jerry To: FreeBSD Message-ID: <20120623071858.3f09b9d4@scorpio> In-Reply-To: <201206231550.06081.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> References: <3A.82.12873.59975EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> <201206231550.06081.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmIp8o2f9t0lqSftuyy8NSDBxfy4oMkObifdVjXgN0L2WpkwqzTDNz4SKFQPoWVCvXRJpkk Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: FreeBSD List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:19:02 -0000 On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:50:05 +0700 Erich Dollansky articulated: > USB is more a lottery than real computing for me. That is really sad. I am sort of forced to use USB devices on a daily basis, Luckily, very few of them involve FreeBSD, which is why I do not exhibit such a negative attitude, except of course when I do attempt to plug one in a FreeBSD machine with negative results. I do not know what is more pathetic; the fact that so many devices fail to operate correctly -- if at all --, or the willingness of the FreeBSD community to accept it as the norm. -- Jerry â™” Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 12:16:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D5771065670 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:16:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 100E08FC12 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:16:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from x220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.201.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q5NCGjbC021527; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:16:47 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:16:44 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/10.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.8.3; amd64; ; ) References: <3A.82.12873.59975EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> <201206231550.06081.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> <20120623071858.3f09b9d4@scorpio> In-Reply-To: <20120623071858.3f09b9d4@scorpio> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206231916.44655.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: Jerry Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:16:48 -0000 Hi, On Saturday 23 June 2012 18:18:58 Jerry wrote: > On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:50:05 +0700 > > Erich Dollansky articulated: > > USB is more a lottery than real computing for me. > > That is really sad. I am sort of forced to use USB devices on a > daily basis, Luckily, very few of them involve FreeBSD, which is why I > do not exhibit such a negative attitude, except of course when I do > attempt to plug one in a FreeBSD machine with negative results. I do > not know what is more pathetic; the fact that so many devices fail to > operate correctly -- if at all --, or the willingness of the FreeBSD > community to accept it as the norm. I see it a bit different. There are standards. I hope that FreeBSD follows them as close as possible. There are also some grey areas in every standard. The grey areas can only be filled with manpower. This is the point where FreeBSD hits a wall. Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 12:32:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F91106564A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:32:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BE8C8FC16 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:32:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NCWEH1085450; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:32:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5NCWEFw085447; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:32:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:32:14 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Eduardo Morras In-Reply-To: <4FA8827200C1EDC7@> (added by postmaster@resmaa13.ono.com) Message-ID: References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> <4FA8827200C1EDC7@> (added by postmaster@resmaa13.ono.com) User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:32:14 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:32:21 -0000 On Sat, 23 Jun 2012, Eduardo Morras wrote: > At 02:37 23/06/2012, Chad Perrin wrote: >> On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:47:40PM +0200, Roland Smith wrote: >> > On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:09:03AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: >> > > I'm setting up a "new" backup server using FreeBSD. It will be used >> for >> > > backing up laptops, which will not be connected to the network by any >> > > kind of schedule, so backups will be initiated manually rather than by >> > > cron or other scheduled procedures. >> > >> > What are the laptops running? >> >> FreeBSD, Debian, and/or Ubuntu. There's at least one of each. I >> apologize for not mentioning that sooner. I had a feeling I'd overlook >> something. > > If it must work with all OS and you have no restrictions on network you can: > > a) activate PXE/WOL on bios > > b) start the laptop via PXE using a freebsd/linux/whatever_os_you_want_to_use > > c) use dd piped to rsync to make the backups > > This way you don't need to install anything on your freebsd ubuntu debian. PXE booting gives a lot of possibilities. I use it to boot Clonezilla to back up Windows systems. That is better than dd, since only used disk blocks are copied. But neither does incremental backups. For FreeBSD and other open operating systems, sysutils/rsnapshot is a possibility. Normally run from cron, could be run manually, or automatically when the backup server is detected. It does incremental copies, is space-efficient (rsync with hard links), and only depends on rsync and Perl. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 12:38:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F3091065675 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:38:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gobble.wa@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F4A58FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:38:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so2435984wer.13 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 05:38:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=/k5+6W9HisWJ3ucwFzyCIMpDLLO+zTER2iEiOP+7mig=; b=bCeG2q1aIT94+b9jxMcjdoazpkNkUJC6y5jXLRqs8ditO/wP5kjZ5p/ThzUvdEgf0m szvrnP+EkuSPc8Y2iBnL3H3OArm5cY0NR0Brt3jfCBalzXdpmpNjeOKhry742kqDX6u+ CCgNas9z99QFVAZmX7VN+qAVYJJhaELWSLV5qapuPqSf6Vr4a3QsVPwSw4bXkGDQu1r8 nSinzaIpelxvWCl7cFfnS0B8IAOq9r3IaUXNlTqFZ7wBzeYPlpf+6r8qlFt5zNdbIVle vbJuaRO+X2/rYJ8irAP9Xv/GgJXJ52KiawYnpogsy+Rbr6uuC9ifOokztUQvgDg4QQEY b4qQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.81.65 with SMTP id y1mr11605502wix.1.1340455075892; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 05:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.138.220 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 05:37:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3A.82.12873.59975EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> References: <3A.82.12873.59975EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 05:37:55 -0700 Message-ID: From: Waitman Gobble To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:38:55 -0000 On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 1:08 AM, Thomas Mueller wrote: > > My elder colleague often told me that it is the easiest and well-working > way > > to check whether the one is certified to work for Mac OS X to get USB > mass > > storage devices which work with *BSD :) > > > Just my 5 yen, > > -|-__ YAMAMOTO, Taku > | __ < > > What if a USB mass storage device works with some BSDs but not all? > > I had Kingston Data Travelers, 2 GB, from one lot that were good with > Linux and FreeBSD but not NetBSD. > > Other USB sticks, including Kingston Data Tavelers, worked with Linux, > FreeBSD and NetBSD. > > I even installed FreeDOS 1.1 prerelease on one of those NetBSD-averse > Kingstom Data Travelers. > > But I think either Mac OS X, Linux or FreeBSD is much more > production-ready than NetBSD. > > > There are 3 drivers, one for 3.0, 2.0 and 1.0, and they are associated to > > corresponding devices at boot. I'll play around with it this weekend and > > see how to switch, i've also noticed issue connecting 2.0 device to 3.0 > > port. > > > Waitman Gobble > > San Jose California USA > > I don't think I ever tried to connect a USB 2.0 device to 3.0 port, but I > tried the opposite. > > My Western Digital My Book Essential 3.0 TB USB 3.0 drive works even on > the old computer whose motherboard's USB is 1.1. > > I tried to access that USB 3.0 hard drive on the new computer from USB 2.0 > port because NetBSD has no USB 3.0 support: no go. > > But when I installed USB 2.0 brackets to USB 2.0 headers on the > motherboard, the USB 3.0 hard drive was accessible from those USB 2.0 ports. > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > One possible 'caveat'.. I've noticed occasionally it will take 75 seconds or so for a USB 3.0 drive to 'connect'.. at first I thought the drive was not being 'recognized'. Someone has posted here that they believe it could be b/c a USB 3.0 uses 2x the power of 2.0 (i've not confirmed that) and it could be due to some kind of power management on the computer.. I've not yet taken the time to sort that out. anyhow this issue initially led me to believe there was some problem with the driver, but it seems likely not the case. Waitman Gobble San Jose California USA From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 13:00:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F3EB1065689 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:00:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFB7C8FC17 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:00:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5ND0U6o038249; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:00:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5ND0TSW038246; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:00:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:00:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Erich Dollansky In-Reply-To: <201206231550.06081.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Message-ID: References: <3A.82.12873.59975EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> <201206231550.06081.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:00:30 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Thomas Mueller Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:00:34 -0000 >> ports. >> > Same as in my case. > > USB is more a lottery than real computing for me. but this is not USB standard fault, but USB device manufacturers that cannot really read standard specifications. "It works" (under windoze, under linux) is enough. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 13:02:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6002106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:02:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 420388FC1A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:02:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5ND2UMw038259 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:02:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5ND2UtA038256 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:02:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:02:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20120623071858.3f09b9d4@scorpio> Message-ID: References: <3A.82.12873.59975EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> <201206231550.06081.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> <20120623071858.3f09b9d4@scorpio> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:02:30 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:02:29 -0000 > daily basis, Luckily, very few of them involve FreeBSD, which is why I > do not exhibit such a negative attitude, except of course when I do > attempt to plug one in a FreeBSD machine with negative results. I do > not know what is more pathetic; the fact that so many devices fail to > operate correctly -- if at all --, or the willingness of the FreeBSD > community to accept it as the norm. usb_quirks.c is already quite large as you may see... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 13:04:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12D15106564A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:04:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jorge@jorge.cc) Received: from mail.jorge.cc (mail.jorge.cc [69.55.232.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB3A78FC24 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:04:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.jorge.cc (mail.jorge.cc Daemon, from userid 1002) id 7F2F5108901; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 08:57:39 -0400 From: Jorge Luis Gonzalez To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120623125739.GA82828@jorge.cc> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> <20120623075928.GA19093@slackbox.erewhon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i "From: Jorge Luis Gonzalez " "Organization: Acme Aesthetic Products" "X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 8.2-RELEASE-p4" Organization: Acme Aesthetic Products X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 8.2-RELEASE-p4 Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:04:27 -0000 Wojciech Puchar: > > > >Hmm, I'm not sure that there is _anything_ that meets _all_ your criteria! > > rsync meets. It can be a little harder with windoze, with any unix-like OS > it will work. > rsync, or some front-end to rsync, is indeed probably the best option, though it lacks several of the features that the OP indicates would be desirable. For several years I've used dirvish to good effect. It's built on rsync and handles unattended backups over heterogeneous networks quite well. It shares some of rsync's deficiencies, but for me, its merits (well-structured simplifications of rsync's ability to exclude files or directories, elegant handling of backups' expirations) are sufficient to make it a worthy alternative to naked rsync. The frontend is written in Perl and easily extended. By "heterogeneous networks" I'm afraid I mean ones composed of machines running unix-like OSs; I've no idea if there's an rsync port to Windows. Jorge -- Jorge Luis González http://www.jorge.cc/ * ftp://ftp.jorge.cc/{pub,incoming} IRC: #vim jl-satyr * XMPP: jl-satyr@jabber.org GPG KEY -> 0x4AD9C195 * ICBM: 42.592627, -72.588859 This email optimized for teletypes. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 13:13:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84075106566B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:13:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFFC38FC12 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:13:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NDDZN1038333; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:13:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5NDDZDc038330; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:13:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:13:35 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Jorge Luis Gonzalez In-Reply-To: <20120623125739.GA82828@jorge.cc> Message-ID: References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> <20120623075928.GA19093@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623125739.GA82828@jorge.cc> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:13:36 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:13:35 -0000 what exactly deficiences and requirements not met by rsync are you talking about? > simplifications of rsync's ability to exclude files or directories, elegant > handling of backups' expirations) are sufficient to make it a worthy > alternative to naked rsync. The frontend is written in Perl and easily > extended. > > By "heterogeneous networks" I'm afraid I mean ones composed of machines running > unix-like OSs; I've no idea if there's an rsync port to Windows. there are many. I know people using it ... after they know how useful it is based on my examples. No idea how stable and usable they are. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 13:15:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 083D61065674 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:15:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B8BE8FC1A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:15:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NDFSxo038345; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:15:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5NDFS9W038342; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:15:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:15:28 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Warren Block In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> <4FA8827200C1EDC7@> (added by postmaster@resmaa13.ono.com) User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:15:28 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Eduardo Morras , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:15:28 -0000 > > PXE booting gives a lot of possibilities. I use it to boot Clonezilla to > back up Windows systems. That is better than dd, since only used disk blocks ntfsclone is what you need. for sure simpler. > For FreeBSD and other open operating systems, sysutils/rsnapshot is a what is exactly rsnapshot "added value" to rsync, and what is exactly this fuss about hardlinks? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 13:29:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 920E31065672 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:29:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AADD8FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:29:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so2490386ghb.13 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:29:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=V0jZsyWKOnAAwQ25BU5k95gRv1HcGpVuWKrkZHCMS7M=; b=dfF4x4TRA2As2oHpsvtu3DWDpZOwkDu8s5Ksxx5TK0DVCQzcr7tcjeWu1fCs9bzYnt GIAFEXMFlBjjIjNmBb1zZ3kknr32havfYA5CeT8CkJrh1gIwrI0Pi1vbvyTA+sQxMzEg RvBPZFDcMpQeMxCbU7GIZQa12HDwQSlBTpqSs= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=V0jZsyWKOnAAwQ25BU5k95gRv1HcGpVuWKrkZHCMS7M=; b=DM2TW/ko7U5Ao9pXHHlmapOzIEypW7DAwnmuK+g19LAM5sDC0as3mbVbv6sJu5G37T Nq4xyT7z/aCk1s8xZZKQXrTBXxgDvg4WKqOTDQpI4vWhr3/sZEqnYG/h5r3Pv5F4XHqy yk3YBRXd+J2e558Eh0BB/cu1y2ZEHryI1AYZ1l8s2W0w2yw7nfgnsaxFQ8kAywQ6b+yS BVe9PYxVBcSe4Qyz24it4ybWqqjTaGqak6JyUcau41anZuTwmZXhwKs1NiCtQWrz3kKK S/T6RneVZSqkZWQ3jpGWQvvqmr5SXNEXha31z+ovjvKbE7wX5mCh1kZ5Gn7u1idgShqu dWzQ== Received: by 10.236.115.36 with SMTP id d24mr6370394yhh.117.1340458145660; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-076-182-104-150.nc.res.rr.com. [76.182.104.150]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i67sm121007228yhh.21.2012.06.23.06.29.04 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@scorpio.seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3WKHYB6Tq5z2CG5m for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:29:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:29:02 -0400 From: Jerry To: FreeBSD Message-ID: <20120623092902.144a3dd9@scorpio> In-Reply-To: References: <3A.82.12873.59975EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> <201206231550.06081.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmagMgiLK441EDftpUyer9oBjwfwWIpH+TM7YoTj6zaxvYMoAskcHwP1yPQkib++ZyB0hws Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: FreeBSD List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:29:06 -0000 On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:00:29 +0200 (CEST) Wojciech Puchar articulated: > >> ports. > >> > > Same as in my case. > > > > USB is more a lottery than real computing for me. > but this is not USB standard fault, but USB device manufacturers that > cannot really read standard specifications. "It works" (under > windoze, under linux) is enough. If the ROI does not exceed the expenditure to meet a specification that only applies to a niche segment of the potential market, then it is in all probability not going to happen. Furthermore, I have seen no documented proof that the problem actually exists with the device and not with the FreeBSD implementation of the specification nor with its supplied drivers. FreeBSD has not exactly been a leader in the implementation of USB. Apparently, it doesn't fully support all variants of USB although that might have recently changed. In any case, as a wise man once stated, it is better to light a candle than curse the darkness. -- Jerry â™” Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 13:37:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F9F7106566B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:37:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cjr@cruwe.de) Received: from cruwe.de (cruwe.de [188.40.164.98]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 226208FC12 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:37:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from cruwe.de (unknown [127.0.0.4]) by cruwe.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F91DD1E7 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:37:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: by cruwe.de (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 61F96D1E6; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:37:20 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on mail.cruwe.de X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from dijkstra.cruwe.de (p57BDF8A6.dip.t-dialin.net [87.189.248.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by cruwe.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 197CAD1E3 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:37:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:37:10 +0200 From: "Christopher J. Ruwe" To: Message-ID: <20120623153710.36e7446f@dijkstra.cruwe.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd9.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/4Wj1mwatNZ96d671aKcsAN2"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV on mail.cruwe.de using ClamSMTP Subject: changing md5 hashed for sha X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:37:27 -0000 --Sig_/4Wj1mwatNZ96d671aKcsAN2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For setting the dafault hash used to hash /etc/master.passwd, it has been recommended changing md5 for something more secure in the sense of being more expensive to crack. The handbook describes the procedure used in http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/crypt.html. Allegedly, hashes which were hashed with one of the sha-functions begin with the character $6$. Afer having changed my /etc/login.conf accordingly and having reset the passwords, the given there is not md5 anymore (I have tried with md5), but does not begin with the character $6$, but, as md5, with $1$, which is supposed to be md5-hashed. I fear I am a bit dense here, what am I getting wrong? Thanks and cheers, --=20 Christopher=20 TZ: GMT + 2h --Sig_/4Wj1mwatNZ96d671aKcsAN2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJP5caLAAoJEJTIKW/o3iwU8hMQAIt2Zzlxd0cA1luc3pRZdZvW ZwoCon4cJqfVGziRhBk0rLj+HKgaZhlJdr5MY5qGURD6EQKUXPbTPOcp+Lgv9p8b 4RhDfBioHeWBN7B7uZ4P8bf5NBFNdw89dB0Jl9wGj744Qeq032y116xGZigF7l16 UoMRyhP4bf7ww74KzM8/NU3iSoNRqSwZaziWds1dQJx51fVYIx4PtVhy4+1NDU0u ULrNwxcVJ16BOfX4Mzj/I2G7bDZ9VOKY1RTlSkh/Txt72URsBWtog05rV7P7mYpP avW4azUtr4lKlKWAgYnSRNba5viUNejGH64WtX8U7w5Ud6ObqFUEImbvFxQOnJXf A7HQj3NtJofQvgflit3l3phx2CXeUszMuOMxBtmhrSx/9Fw0/8ibOMucDn5F3Cta 9BJ5wscH46AWWaYzqwZhQksmGBBr3nzmsAqXTKPSZtLcR9OHYyGFg2zemswLPb2E pIiU0yJxD8cr1zsjWLPo6k6HV6+fNtq9QcVpC7xaaDhai97o2R2rMTLVEfxmKHm2 wcFSlKpQs9axDa7rBOt6ji0NbyOYgXn1wS0K9P+1Kiv45hy33v5KC0QsJmYrFN2H t1zT1LjTEYlmhEal2OEqqQNBkMkQzthA8ygbN0agMqv9HP+oVHSUQ2JQHRPx7Ibd yKFTj0be/buMVKw4PYPv =Zg0I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/4Wj1mwatNZ96d671aKcsAN2-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 13:40:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7EDA106564A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:40:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BAB68FC14 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:40:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NDepHS038779; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:40:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5NDepkv038776; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:40:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:40:51 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: "Christopher J. Ruwe" In-Reply-To: <20120623153710.36e7446f@dijkstra.cruwe.de> Message-ID: References: <20120623153710.36e7446f@dijkstra.cruwe.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:40:52 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: changing md5 hashed for sha X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:40:52 -0000 > For setting the dafault hash used to hash /etc/master.passwd, it has > been recommended changing md5 for something more secure in the sense of > being more expensive to crack. is md5 that easy to crack? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 13:42:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F92A106566B for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:42:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C09828FC19 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:42:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NDg4Vb038789 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:42:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5NDg4Cv038786 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:42:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:42:04 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20120623092902.144a3dd9@scorpio> Message-ID: References: <3A.82.12873.59975EF4@smtp02.insight.synacor.com> <201206231550.06081.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> <20120623092902.144a3dd9@scorpio> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:42:04 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:42:03 -0000 >> windoze, under linux) is enough. > > If the ROI does not exceed the expenditure to meet a specification that > only applies to a niche segment of the potential market, then it is in > all probability not going to happen. Right. Fine. There is not written on them "conforms to USB Mass Storage standard" ;) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 13:46:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1017106567A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:46:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jorge@jorge.cc) Received: from mail.jorge.cc (mail.jorge.cc [69.55.232.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B36318FC15 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:46:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.jorge.cc (mail.jorge.cc Daemon, from userid 1002) id DF290108901; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:46:02 -0400 From: Jorge Luis Gonzalez To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120623134602.GA36552@jorge.cc> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> <20120623075928.GA19093@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623125739.GA82828@jorge.cc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i "From: Jorge Luis Gonzalez " "Organization: Acme Aesthetic Products" "X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 8.2-RELEASE-p4" Organization: Acme Aesthetic Products X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 8.2-RELEASE-p4 Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:46:06 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wrote: > what exactly deficiences and requirements not met by rsync are you talking > about? > Perhaps "deficiencies" was too strong a word. I think the OP required--or perhaps desired--a WOL function. I'm not aware of any such capability in rsync proper. I meant, too, that dirvish, which was the alternative that I recommended, presents an elegant and easily-comprehended way to manage rsync's considerable abilities, not that it provides features that can't be managed directly by rsync. > >By "heterogeneous networks" I'm afraid I mean ones composed of machines > >running > >unix-like OSs; I've no idea if there's an rsync port to Windows. > there are many. I know people using it ... after they know how useful it > is based on my examples. No idea how stable and usable they are. Thanks for pointing out that there are Windows ports of rsync, and that you provide examples of their use. I'm not sure I would entrust my system backups to them if they come with the disclaimer that you've "no idea how stable and usable they are." Jorge -- Jorge Luis González http://www.jorge.cc/ * ftp://ftp.jorge.cc/{pub,incoming} IRC: #vim jl-satyr * XMPP: jl-satyr@jabber.org GPG KEY -> 0x4AD9C195 * ICBM: 42.592627, -72.588859 This email optimized for teletypes. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 13:54:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D8A91065674 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:54:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 065BF8FC1A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:54:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NDsMlR038896; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:54:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5NDsMtD038893; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:54:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:54:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Jorge Luis Gonzalez In-Reply-To: <20120623134602.GA36552@jorge.cc> Message-ID: References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> <20120623075928.GA19093@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623125739.GA82828@jorge.cc> <20120623134602.GA36552@jorge.cc> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:54:22 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:54:21 -0000 you mean "wake on lan"? there is "wol" tool in ports. > proper. I meant, too, that dirvish, which was the alternative that I > recommended, presents an elegant and easily-comprehended way to manage rsync's > considerable abilities, not that it provides features that can't be managed > directly by rsync. fine but i really want to "manage features" directly by specifying a commands. thanks for answer, but i really don't recommend anyone using "all in one" tools as it's always to have problems with "one" than with "all". >> there are many. I know people using it ... after they know how useful it >> is based on my examples. No idea how stable and usable they are. > > Thanks for pointing out that there are Windows ports of rsync, and that you > provide examples of their use. I'm not sure I would entrust my system backups > to them if they come with the disclaimer that you've "no idea how stable and > usable they are." google "rsync for windows". It is not a danger if you run this "no really sure" tools from windoze and you see whether it finished work properly or not. syncback works fine and is used by me. but it is not high performance, it can use only FTP or windows share destination. for backing up "my documents" it is fine anyway. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 14:00:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 801DC1065676 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:00:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cjr@cruwe.de) Received: from cruwe.de (cruwe.de [188.40.164.98]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FBA58FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:00:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from cruwe.de (unknown [127.0.0.4]) by cruwe.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BCBED2C0 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:00:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: by cruwe.de (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 3E19CD2BF; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:00:32 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on mail.cruwe.de X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from dijkstra.cruwe.de (p57BDF8A6.dip.t-dialin.net [87.189.248.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by cruwe.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D8ADBD2BB; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:00:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:59:57 +0200 From: "Christopher J. Ruwe" To: Message-ID: <20120623155957.570eff66@dijkstra.cruwe.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20120623153710.36e7446f@dijkstra.cruwe.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd9.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/bB2cz2GLFxmj46S5xanat/v"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV on mail.cruwe.de using ClamSMTP Cc: Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: changing md5 hashed for sha X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:00:33 -0000 --Sig_/bB2cz2GLFxmj46S5xanat/v Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:40:51 +0200 (CEST) Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > For setting the dafault hash used to hash /etc/master.passwd, it has > > been recommended changing md5 for something more secure in the > > sense of being more expensive to crack. >=20 > is md5 that easy to crack? It has been discussed recently, cf http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-security/2012-June/006271.html or virtually the first half of http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-security/2012-June/thread.html Cheers, --=20 Christopher TZ: GMT + 2h --Sig_/bB2cz2GLFxmj46S5xanat/v Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJP5cvjAAoJEJTIKW/o3iwUInIQAMezkkF9fCCeGdasarBB9Ttf KYFBfJjMG5Zr3jSjJiOoXnWkAeIRzenOI2//DPzrYC3ombmWotHy8YuZ/xpOivBt 8XcSRu6uPyc+JWeOMrw/4AZALWzpvsxu7bjDiCXCy3f1tnFdZcr3HurTLrM7jMQ8 87aUdvTZKVC3QTGbLexqexhYGyn4wXS6TeaEpWh9sBxKFKZ+QLiD+DfDp8tGpJ88 VyJfrRoyhtjYla4bd/NkZ5fZ8r5AEfFt1mQTbXaG48X+yEkc6iuDD+KT4WDLCNLv FyriHpeQXKYPOatMecWZVx5aCkk+aqD3aLIX0cuQUovi8C6Nf/26YevAmxIEfkJb kAZluB9CkkprmwQZsWaYsrtFRiIpPpKv71yNNoTEPR+jm7NHgpBj5Zmy6+A/vv9j Ry8n8RVnnF4eUPqbs8YxaPWY8FAgWILAENHBwi1z2o7g9KTTnYsmvhCcBKxP6SwE n2Z7CW4vJZHLNMxCZROH0gC9wpmhTr7qZHa6ghxloA0chfh5UkaGoBZ4r/JCxBMF RN+AQrBWURsLiK9CToHGY/fk3TINWqwvCRna2megM88JUfKDI3X0s2xV7xM2CFTm S97dnZRYCPRZU7YLUENxSOs1kaH5prTb1J+33gSQ9JMBbSUh9G4eY2CHr0xmoAen fW1TS+0BFZXEVEAbqgMb =/VI8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/bB2cz2GLFxmj46S5xanat/v-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 14:06:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 020CC106564A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:06:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EC908FC16 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:06:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NE6Exq038996; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:06:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5NE6E7f038993; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:06:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:06:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Jorge Luis Gonzalez In-Reply-To: <20120623134602.GA36552@jorge.cc> Message-ID: References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> <20120623075928.GA19093@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623125739.GA82828@jorge.cc> <20120623134602.GA36552@jorge.cc> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:06:14 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:06:14 -0000 > Thanks for pointing out that there are Windows ports of rsync, and that you > provide examples of their use. I'm not sure I would entrust my system backups > to them if they come with the disclaimer that you've "no idea how stable and > usable they are." > http://justinsomnia.org/2007/02/how-to-regularly-backup-windows-xp-to-ubuntu-using-rsync/ might be useful for you, after you ignore all this linux style sudo nonsense. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 14:09:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67E671065678 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:09:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF968FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:09:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NE9gqY039021; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:09:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5NE9gQG039018; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:09:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:09:42 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: "Christopher J. Ruwe" In-Reply-To: <20120623155957.570eff66@dijkstra.cruwe.de> Message-ID: References: <20120623153710.36e7446f@dijkstra.cruwe.de> <20120623155957.570eff66@dijkstra.cruwe.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:09:43 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: changing md5 hashed for sha X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:09:43 -0000 >>> been recommended changing md5 for something more secure in the >>> sense of being more expensive to crack. >> >> is md5 that easy to crack? > > It has been discussed recently, cf > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-security/2012-June/006271.html > or virtually the first half of > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-security/2012-June/thread.html > wasn't aware md5 is really risky. thanks. anyway - as long as someone don't actually get /etc/master.passwd it doesn't matter, it could be even plaintext here. If someone can get /etc/master.passwd then he/she most probably already got root priviledge :) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 16:05:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F5D81065675 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:05:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 675CF8FC0C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:05:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.17]) by ltcfislmsgpa05.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5NG5odA015816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:05:51 -0500 Received: from [10.0.0.105] (10.14.152.61) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:05:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" From: Devin Teske In-Reply-To: <20120623153710.36e7446f@dijkstra.cruwe.de> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:05:46 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <8B1072EE-6143-4E1E-B951-373C8877D007@fisglobal.com> References: <20120623153710.36e7446f@dijkstra.cruwe.de> To: "Christopher J. Ruwe" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.61] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.7.7855, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-06-23_06:2012-06-22, 2012-06-23, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: changing md5 hashed for sha X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Devin Teske List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:05:56 -0000 On Jun 23, 2012, at 6:37 AM, Christopher J. Ruwe wrote: > For setting the dafault hash used to hash /etc/master.passwd, it has > been recommended changing md5 for something more secure in the sense of > being more expensive to crack. >=20 > The handbook describes the procedure used in > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/crypt.html. > Allegedly, hashes which were hashed with one of the sha-functions begin > with the character $6$. >=20 Unfortunately, it appears that login.conf is ignored by pw w/respect to gro= up(5) passwords. Example Given: Setting passwd_format=3Dblf in login.conf(5) followed by executing: echo newpass | sudo pw usermod SOMEUSER -h 0 sudo grep '^SOMEUSER:' /etc/master.passwd # shows Blowfish hash starting with $2a$, meanwhile=85 echo newpass | sudo pw groupmod SOMEGROUP -h 0 grep '^SOMEGROUP:' /etc/group # shows login.conf(5) was ignored and an old-style crypt password (2-letter= salt; 8-character max password) :( --=20 Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware= that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and revie= w by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 16:46:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE471065677 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:46:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy5-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy5.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D0F1F8FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:46:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 22340 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jun 2012 16:46:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by cpoproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2012 16:46:15 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=nYhhWmuCgmFvQOCqT70VjSNSkkZFdg9BfRFCSM3R594=; b=gMvrPAe9WUdv9HCmi6gwzXbaYCRR0zHokqQ0oPv5JBLhPLgr5CI2oFhi+sUP0E9X+AGkyMrv1EANzAFC5dkewMrHsZRF5aHdSerQZpiuby89eW2gKXJ7Oaz3bGzfuFQh; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=62537 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SiTTS-0005TA-VS for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:46:15 -0600 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:46:14 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120623164614.GA13602@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> <20120623075928.GA19093@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623125739.GA82828@jorge.cc> <20120623134602.GA36552@jorge.cc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120623134602.GA36552@jorge.cc> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:46:16 -0000 On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 09:46:02AM -0400, Jorge Luis Gonzalez wrote: > Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > what exactly deficiences and requirements not met by rsync are you talking > > about? > > Perhaps "deficiencies" was too strong a word. I think the OP required--or > perhaps desired--a WOL function. I'm not aware of any such capability in rsync > proper. I meant, too, that dirvish, which was the alternative that I > recommended, presents an elegant and easily-comprehended way to manage rsync's > considerable abilities, not that it provides features that can't be managed > directly by rsync. Actually, a Wake-On-LAN feature is not at all necessary for me in this case. It's a simple enough task to just trigger a backup manually at the command line via a script that automates the process. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 17:25:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D8C3106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:25:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy7-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy7.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E9B38FC12 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:25:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 23293 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jun 2012 17:25:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy7.bluehost.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2012 17:25:55 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=8JjJMqIDRUD+8IPIGFwrWukq2GYi6vDj9LndrAmyCZs=; b=lICywLZUtyWtqasAAoa6iY3wqQ6z443IXAoaoEv424VmwcAusnSexSWh2xPk350h/d1W38LfajcnwvydggMGXlUKavbl3B99xkR0gNfosQ0MPr6P26HDUJHLrNTbce5Q; Received: from [24.8.180.234] (port=60711 helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SiU5r-0001L0-Cq for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:25:55 -0600 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:25:55 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120623172555.GB13602@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20120623023022.5993A106572F@hub.freebsd.org> <20120623064727.GA11101@manul.langhans.com.pl> <20120623102204.3c8bd0f8.freebsd@edvax.de> <20120623090108.GA11537@manul.langhans.com.pl> <20120623091736.GA8640@manul.langhans.com.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120623091736.GA8640@manul.langhans.com.pl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:25:56 -0000 On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 11:17:36AM +0200, herbert langhans wrote: > On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 11:10:06AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > >lftp does work incremental. Take a look at Chad's posting again and read > > >what he needs. And of course, ftp via ssh is nothing new ... > > > still - any ftp client will no go faster than ftp protocol allows. > > That's sure. But I think it's an option for the laptops what Chad > mentioned. Such scripts for backup are set up in minutes and it happily > copies the files to the server. If there are already user accounts on > the server, it could be really easy. I think it depends on the scale of > the network. It does appear to meet my needs, at first glance, with any capabilities it does not already have that I might need easily scripted. I'm having a difficult time finding any reference to licensing, though. Matt Dillon's explanation of cpdup suggests it is probably some kind of BSD-licensed, given its inclusion in DragonFly BSD base utilities, but that's not *necessarily* the case. Reference: http://apollo.backplane.com/FreeSrc/ I'm going to try emailing Dillon for clarification, too. In any case, I'll take a closer look at cpdup. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 17:50:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 184A5106566C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:50:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 771358FC17 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:50:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NHoWvV040114; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:50:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5NHoWaa040111; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:50:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:50:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chad Perrin In-Reply-To: <20120623164614.GA13602@hemlock.hydra> Message-ID: References: <20120622160903.GE24912@hemlock.hydra> <20120622184740.GA67847@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623003717.GD7876@hemlock.hydra> <20120623075928.GA19093@slackbox.erewhon.net> <20120623125739.GA82828@jorge.cc> <20120623134602.GA36552@jorge.cc> <20120623164614.GA13602@hemlock.hydra> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:50:33 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: backup tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:50:39 -0000 > > Actually, a Wake-On-LAN feature is not at all necessary for me in this > case. It's a simple enough task to just trigger a backup manually at the > command line via a script that automates the process. still. a separate wol tool is available in ports. You may easily construct shell script that will execute it, wait a bit, check out if server booted with ping, then wait a bit more (so inetd or rsyncd started) then run rsync. Unix philosophy means have one program to do think well, not to do everything. This is what make me an exclusive unix "fanatics". From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 17:51:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E51F31065670 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:51:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aimass@yabarana.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A70A18FC17 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:51:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so4823426obb.13 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:51:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=YzezeZmh5C++BZB6D2lj8zVhl02sAfK+Eb6uiscDO0s=; b=X+y2DV/YWmkYV4QyuSX3ITA74l0Ax6ANmjsYOSw9Ycjg1xPSSniIZycmzo5OkAipIq 2o75Fq+kUrFDtG1HSHe23N4NbS7OBdLAZznaOHC4Mzi8ANqJc9rBNBRo+RivA1BAO5rU ku7CkK4DDQDLAuJkaZ2ZoRBcgXFLJxquJ/ZcpiVF7rSZVsU0fUOEdJWhs5e9tvKrmfwR XmWSThHFmCnjIK14H0pu6ZFRVQaw6XLNTPz/T9xYoNIbg1OA1iAeWmR+zi2zthVgtHRz W+1zxiQ0vvS1JLIkRIqRiljBVi0JEu5g+z6wmsQF/SQSjbPtjtRDO1o8A7/cZpy4b9kj anpw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.217.193 with SMTP id pa1mr4608612igc.39.1340473891960; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Sender: aimass@yabarana.com Received: by 10.42.217.6 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:51:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201206230015.q5N0FPh8044345@mail.r-bonomi.com> References: <201206230015.q5N0FPh8044345@mail.r-bonomi.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:51:31 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: hD-NCAqhA89NuqqIuCz7xv60MXA Message-ID: From: Alejandro Imass To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQllqQbw/KV+FWpqGlpkkhdYSkgLfEiAp5hJL27UVabnVkuBEIO5sz4W+/W0l61djfquKZFG Subject: Re: Sendmail and Postfix X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:51:34 -0000 On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Robert Bonomi w= rote: >> From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org =A0Fri Jun 22 13:47:20 2012 >> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org >> Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:41:46 -0500 >> From: Mark Felder >> Subject: Re: Sendmail and Postfix >> >> When you installed Postfix did you allow it to update the entries in >> /etc/mail/mailer.conf ? If so, I wouldn't worry about the mailq binary >> that came with the system; it's ignored. > > For SendMail, mailq is just a symlink to the SendMail executable. > > the "mail.conf" stuff (to use a polite word) installs it's own executable= (s) > under all the 'common' names that SendMail is invoked as. =A0These > executables look at /etc/mailer.conf, and invoke the appropiate executabl= e > for the mailer that you have seleccted in mailer.conf. > mailer.conf is usually modified my the Postfix port and I am not sure but I think the option is checked by default. The lines to add to rc.conf to de-activate Sendmail and usu Postfix on the base system are: sendmail_enable=3D"NO" sendmail_submit_enable=3D"NO" sendmail_outbound_enable=3D"NO" sendmail_msp_queue_enable=3D"NO" postfix_enable=3D"YES" --=20 Alejandro Imass > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 20:10:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: FreeBSD-Questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 959161065674 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 20:10:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vince@unsane.co.uk) Received: from unsane.co.uk (unsane-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f08:110::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1C18FC0A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 20:10:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vincemacbook.unsane.co.uk (vincemacbook.unsane.co.uk [10.10.10.20]) (authenticated bits=0) by unsane.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5NKASBs062315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:10:28 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from vince@unsane.co.uk) Message-ID: <4FE62269.2030706@unsane.co.uk> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:09:13 +0100 From: Vincent Hoffman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "FreeBSD-Questions@freebsd.org" X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Occassional "permission denied" in the middle of a large transfer over NFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 20:10:33 -0000 I seem to have run into the problems described in this old thread. http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2004-April/044927.html tl:dr mountd may give incorrect permission denied errors when it is refreshing the exports list, /sbin/mount has code that sends SIGHUP to mountd on any mount operation. Which implies that any manual mount request, including NFS mounts would cause the problem. Does anyone know if this is still the case with the new NFS server? thanks, Vince From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 20:53:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 474BD106564A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 20:53:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC398FC0C for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 20:53:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q5NKrEFH050444; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:53:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:53:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201206232053.q5NKrEFH050444@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: hoomanfazaeli@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <4FE57481.90601@gmail.com> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 20:53:01 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Jun 23 02:48:26 2012 > Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:17:13 +0430 > From: Hooman Fazaeli > To: Wojciech Puchar > Cc: FreeBSD Questions > Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? > > > I meant, is it now possible to have >2TB FS with UFS? Of course not. UFS uses 32-bit numbers for block addresses. IMPOSSIBLE to reference more than 2^41 bytes. However, "UFS2" re-implemented the same disk structures using 64-bit numbers. Thus, it can reference 2^73 bytes in the same 'logical' method. Wojciech simply never lets inconvenient facts get in the way of his opinions about how everyone else should do everything. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 23:14:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA4001065670 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 23:14:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eam1edward@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABAEA8FC0A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 23:14:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so4039830dad.13 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:14:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vPVhenjU98sK7of+9G7lXvPnWLZwC+5qfkuPNhoAqBY=; b=A8QC7NXvMRYvWiYuzR2LGSweWyyNgWZ1hQs8IT+zKzOOi4+50bXtUjm2sp3g/2OmvX Zn3LYmMg8Y3LBZ4041nJKVFRRC4e+Fn9Kh7y65kKleyIGlQlmvfCpE8fkwFp9+ZeVbKC 0HCXuxLL5mSyYJt5Z+h4or3DRr+m2/UheOvIS68tw+DEH9qoGvcH41Y2kxOtFGhTO3a/ F9ekauk46eBD9G+sDZnnlOB0rDOXuUThuqsdRkLniaYGNjfytnh0RWRRBstr4CAvpsY0 r2NOJVYQB6LEw1Sikv8yTe0zAG7d+Se/+Mi+k9NWr8F+tT4n15Q/YKv0wrK4qEPvN/TI lJsQ== Received: by 10.68.132.201 with SMTP id ow9mr23907850pbb.160.1340493273247; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([174.134.109.226]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ob9sm3549326pbb.28.2012.06.23.16.14.31 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:14:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE64F04.2090100@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:19:32 -0700 From: Edward M User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120615 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 23:14:34 -0000 On 06/21/2012 12:33 AM, Hooman Fazaeli wrote: > Now, I want to the same thing on 8.3 and wanted to know > your opinion on ZFS stability. Is there any success story using > ZFS in 24x7, large volume, heavy duty servers? Is there any > other option other than ZFS to build larger than 2TB file systems? I like the ZFS theroy, However I would have to question ZFS Pool Version Number 28 stability, that is what freebsd 9.0 comes with. because it was never really used/marked as production ready by sun/oracle. in my opionion version 28 is consider as a development version. solaris 11 uses version 33 so that is consider as production ready but it is closed source. i think the last open zfs version pool marked as production ready,was pool version 14 and 15 zfs sounds great however i would actally trust more UFS2 for 24x7 servers. agian this is my opinion, could be wrong:-) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 23:19:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 657E01065675 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 23:19:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eam1edward@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372DF8FC14 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 23:19:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so5435179pbb.13 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:19:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hlvZO+/7dCSvF/7b9aGpB0+Yhhb/LXt6q0Lq+CIPlh0=; b=cvn1qkuXiASwiU+3TSnPe1fpyEwjA0uH6BCBG5gdZcGeDhIxQwTRSZDMXGH93PwEnD BzG7+iViFEmwp+fKG4mVkequJJN7eECWhCdezgcFb7R4UJ4BsnCWhG0VtFs3GueQMPQv GbI0NLaWZnF+lIbJP0SMVyqmYqi90oox3KfrHxH8iEGE4+0zM9GKpDw3GC8XEHVZ2/Vn +W5KbThMTvgrt6kFIPqyzGSqttT3r4SjgMKQuud2htlcjWuSQBbtS/lu4pY7kaLvvZZN aXZr9rNIahpFlL9USEJ5NX44ev1jXhA/yTzuYzS2C+NYxwLkmjDX+Oveb2YZ1b4eHOTW ntxw== Received: by 10.68.226.99 with SMTP id rr3mr25016659pbc.48.1340493564204; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([174.134.109.226]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ku7sm3556696pbc.31.2012.06.23.16.19.23 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:19:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE65028.9050809@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:24:24 -0700 From: Edward M User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120615 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4FE2CE38.9000100@gmail.com> <4FE64F04.2090100@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4FE64F04.2090100@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 23:19:30 -0000 On 06/23/2012 04:19 PM, Edward M wrote: > On 06/21/2012 12:33 AM, Hooman Fazaeli wrote: >> Now, I want to the same thing on 8.3 and wanted to know >> your opinion on ZFS stability. Is there any success story using >> ZFS in 24x7, large volume, heavy duty servers? Is there any >> other option other than ZFS to build larger than 2TB file systems? > > > I like the ZFS theroy, However I would have to question ZFS Pool > Version Number 28 stability, > that is what freebsd 9.0 comes with. because it was never really > used/marked as production ready by sun/oracle. > in my opionion version 28 is consider as a development version. > solaris 11 uses version 33 so that is consider > as production ready but it is closed source. i think the last open > zfs version pool marked as production ready,was pool > version 14 and 15 > zfs sounds great however i would actally trust more UFS2 for 24x7 > servers. > > agian this is my opinion, could be wrong:-) > > snafu on my part freebsd 8.3 also uses zfs pool version 28:-) so my opinion would also be the same. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 23 23:58:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDACE106564A for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 23:58:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johnl@iecc.com) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 463668FC08 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 23:58:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 86486 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2012 23:58:13 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 23 Jun 2012 23:58:13 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fe65815.xn--yuvv84g.k1206; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=y4Sn4NHhmDVbe0J1zXifZ1Vvt+K+neC55+6ax6fqjfI=; b=Gh+uZ+DqFZJ7vvS5lr+WBbleAe/pzz1ydIvVee1hUEvAWdd5PK9ihFhmeluz1kcuNuCSGRk+E3bB57t3TbdmxxOzAp8TTN4vJHGIeAW+0s6ZU5Px/nXaEBvkkTASf+aKlDGxiAsjNVrsvEKrUAcH/pNBLzT5rIOMe9az2D67ADY= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 23 Jun 2012 23:57:51 -0000 Message-ID: <20120623235751.12443.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4FE65028.9050809@gmail.com> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: eam1edward@gmail.com Subject: Re: Is ZFS production ready? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 23:58:14 -0000 > snafu on my part freebsd 8.3 also uses zfs pool version 28:-) No, 8.3 uses version 15. It's been quite stable for me. R's, John