From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 4 02:01:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8949E106564A for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2012 02:01:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (unknown [IPv6:2607:f678:1010::34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D4D78FC14 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2012 02:01:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (66@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id q2421Z6n082119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 3 Mar 2012 18:01:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.14.2/Submit) with UUCP id q2421ZHd082118; Sat, 3 Mar 2012 18:01:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from fbsd81 ([192.168.200.81]) by pluto.rain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-pluto-M2060407) id AA16261; Sat, 3 Mar 12 17:51:25 PST Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2012 00:51:10 -0800 From: perryh@pluto.rain.com To: freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org Message-Id: <4f532cfe.QgEyYT6tgG2JPvGA%perryh@pluto.rain.com> References: <20120221143537.Horde.deyFDZjmRSRPQ52pxBIpnLA@webmail.leidinger.net> <4F4BA707.5070608@wasikowski.net> <4F4C3FE7.3040802@FreeBSD.org> <4F4D51CB.2010508@FreeBSD.org> <4F4D5E5D.9040302@FreeBSD.org> <4F4DD288.5060106@FreeBSD.org> <4F4ED889.2070608@FreeBSD.org> <4F500BB9.4040307@FreeBSD.org> <4F5088CA.1090108@FreeBSD.org> <4F510FBD.50008@FreeBSD.org> <4F513B2D.6010809@FreeBSD.org> <4F5148A7.4080408@FreeBSD.org> <4F51BDDA.3020602@hm.net.br> <4f525035.FeXsLHWGEs0tQIdS%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <1330793788.10695.60.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> In-Reply-To: <1330793788.10695.60.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> User-Agent: nail 11.25 7/29/05 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: flowtable usable or not X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2012 02:01:38 -0000 Ian Lepore wrote: > On Sat, 2012-03-03 at 09:09 -0800, perryh@pluto.rain.com wrote: > > H wrote: > > > ... Forever installing FreeBSD Desktop, either KDE or Gnome, > > > was a nightmare process, or better, to make it appear on screen > > > was a nightmare. > > > > I have never understood the point of KDE or Gnome, other than > > (perhaps) as eye candy for the uninitiated. If I wanted a > > Windows desktop, I would install Windows. If I wanted a Mac > > desktop, I would use a Mac. > > I've been getting paid to develop software since 1975 -- Same here (approximately). > Maybe you long for a return to punch cards and fanfold greenbar > paper, but I'm not going back there. I think we've both been around long enough to know that even an ADM-3 or a 3270 is a step up from "punch cards and fanfold greenbar paper". The second step up is screen(1), and AFAIK no one is advocating a "return" even to that level of functionality, much less to anything more primitive. The next improvement is huge, and costly: high-resolution display hardware, and the software (X11, xterm, basic window manager) to handle it. That provides the capability to use multiple windows -- to see several ptys at the same time instead of being able to see only one and having to remember what's on the rest. I think most of us would agree that, costly as this upgrade is, it is justified for most desktop systems. Once we have the high-resolution display capability, it becomes possible to add graphics-based productivity apps like a PDF viewer, web browser, word processor, calendar, drawing programs, etc. I _know_ it is possible to run all that with nothing more than X11 and the same basic window manager, because I do it on a daily basis. The question remains: what more does KDE or Gnome bloatware provide, other than eye candy? > It's exactly because I don't want a Windows or Mac desktop that > I use gnome. Last I saw, Gnome was a way to make an otherwise perfectly good X-windows desktop look like MacOS X. Again, what's the point? What does Gnome give you, that twm or fvwm2 would not?