From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 29 09:02:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80F3B106566B; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 09:02:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@freebsd.org) Received: from theravensnest.org (theraven.freebsd.your.org [216.14.102.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A5F18FC18; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 09:02:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust445.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com [86.26.13.190]) (authenticated bits=0) by theravensnest.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q6T91xtD054576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 29 Jul 2012 09:02:01 GMT (envelope-from theraven@freebsd.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: <1343484950.37325.YahooMailNeo@web113506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 10:01:53 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1343484950.37325.YahooMailNeo@web113506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> To: Pedro Giffuni X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: "freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: BSD ld (was Re: MCLinker and llvm-config) X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 09:02:10 -0000 On 28 Jul 2012, at 15:15, Pedro Giffuni wrote: > The Elftoolchain project has been developing a BSD ld: >=20 > http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/elftoolchain/=20 >=20 >=20 > http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/elftoolchain/browser/trunk/ld=20 >=20 >=20 > I thought that would be the official FreeBSD implementation. There is not yet any consensus as to which linker will be the = replacement, nor on whether the replacement in 10.0 will be the one that = we use long-term. The requirements for 10.0 are, I believe: - Actually exists - Capable of linking base on all tier 1 platforms (which, in 10.0, = hopefully will include ARMv7) - Cross-linking support (ideally without having to build multiple = versions of the linker binary) - Permissive license The longer-term requirements are: - Good integration with the rest of the toolchain, including - LTO support - Code reuse - Ability to link all (or, at least initially, most) ports - Easy to add support for new architectures - Active upstream community - Good performance (both in terms of linkage speed and generated = binaries) Unfortunately, in general the ELF toolchain project is duplicating a lot = of the work done in LLVM and not in an especially reusable way. For = example, when you add a compiler back end in LLVM you get a disassembler = for free and an assembler with a small amount of effort, which means = that an LLVM-based objdump and as will share code with the compiler, = meaning better testing and few places for bugs to hide. It also means = that when we get compiler support for a new platform from the compiler, = we get those tools for free. For example, llvm-objdump can disassemble = the CHERI variant of the MIPS instruction set correctly (including = identifying relocation types), but no other objdump can, and this did = not require any objdump-specific code to be written. =20 The linker's ELF generation support is similarly overlapping with that = of the compiler, and I would much rather that we have a single = implementation in the base system than two.=20 David= From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 29 13:20:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23EDE106566B; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 13:20:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lubatang@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5920D8FC15; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 13:20:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so3903550wgb.31 for ; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 06:20:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=qpg8wOxIuYu8z3GdWIGCDwU4GBLVegy/138CXaI97yc=; b=LZtmeArvCVmCIb05WuOzCqUA0a8gkbD7iW0rLN3xldD7kRyzFE8X/sfdnEwM5QLDpW l+gdGBwFxRGoNo36uRrCVzgEuJSVOxHIaIxBwedvEsEUuK4LytayY446l6WXtE6Rvry/ aMKeydKfvjSg8tNIq3Z9qYUp0FptLQgrp1dXa/hEvzDGAepHaMW2Q1WDoqBJg6/8+KF6 hU0/89TVaNn/tTTtZYJXbN++hhLxdJ4DUpwJIo+ujop1rhqS3JvHfHRFaAJr0Tylu5Y1 WQU6v2rbEemIPbUkn3kKCgXx+RZxUYj4XCYtMzlZFMQrvxbTkE0qgET23MV44yzsGZjO Aicg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.97.33 with SMTP id dx1mr19295652wib.18.1343568051389; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 06:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.48.5 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 06:20:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1343484950.37325.YahooMailNeo@web113506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 21:20:51 +0800 Message-ID: From: Luba Tang To: David Chisnall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Pedro Giffuni , "freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: BSD ld (was Re: MCLinker and llvm-config) X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 13:20:53 -0000 > The linker's ELF generation support is similarly overlapping with that of > the compiler, and I would much rather that we have a single implementation > in the base system than two. > There are some thing I can share. One years ago, when we were brainstoming the idea of MCLinker, we also discussed similar idea - "Can we leverage ELF reading/generation part of LLVM?". Unfortunately, we found the answer is negative when we were in the design stage. The reasons are: 1. For performance reasons, linkers does not read the whole input files. Linkers read a piece of input files on demand. Not only MCLinker, but also Google gold linker, we do not read the whole object files at once. We read a piece of object files, interpret them, and then drop them away immediately. When we need the same piece of object files, we read it again. This is because the scale of the numbers of relocations and symbols are usually 1~100 million, it's huge, but linkers use only a few of them in one process. For smaller memory footprint, linkers do not keep them in the memory, linkers read them from input files on demand. Takes Google gold for example, she reads relocations on-demand. Everywhen she needs a relocation, she reads the input file again and interpret relocation entries. This approach is very efficient. Because linkers usually mmap input files on pages, the file I/O is small. Google gold saves huge amount of memory at the small cost of re-interpreting time. However, the other tools (objdump, nm, and so on) don't need handle with such huge scale problem. They usually simply keeps everything in memory. That is one reason why linkers should have their own special readers and do not reuse the readers of the other tools. 2. Like compilers, linkers also have intermeidate representation (IR). Every linker needs a customized reader to build IR. MCLinker bases on fragment-based model, GNU ld bases on BFD model, ld64 bases on atom-based model,... Different model has its own unique strength and ususally favor certain file format. MCLinker and Google gold favor ELF, ld64 favors MachO, and GNU ld favors COFF+ (I guess, may not right). All linker IRs are a kind of directive acyclic graph (DAG). The main differences of these IRs are the direction of the edges. The readers of the other tools have no idea about linker IR, and this makes reusing is a slim chance. Best regards, Luba David_______________________________________________ > freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-toolchain > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-toolchain-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 29 15:08:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8FF9106564A; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 15:08:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erik@cederstrand.dk) Received: from csmtp2.one.com (csmtp2.one.com [91.198.169.22]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3498FC0A; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 15:08:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (unknown [176.222.238.90]) by csmtp2.one.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B9396303D63F; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 15:08:33 +0000 (UTC) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Erik Cederstrand In-Reply-To: <1343484950.37325.YahooMailNeo@web113506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 17:08:33 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1343484950.37325.YahooMailNeo@web113506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> To: Pedro Giffuni X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: "freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: BSD ld (was Re: MCLinker and llvm-config) X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 15:08:35 -0000 Den 28/07/2012 kl. 16.15 skrev Pedro Giffuni: > Hello; >=20 > The Elftoolchain project has been developing a BSD ld: >=20 > http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/elftoolchain/=20 >=20 >=20 > http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/elftoolchain/browser/trunk/ld=20 >=20 >=20 > I thought that would be the official FreeBSD implementation. I asked about progress recently on ELFToolchain ld, but it currently = only handles simple programs: = http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=3D29593381 LLVM ld is "in its very early stages of development." = (http://lld.llvm.org) gold is GPLv3. MCLinker seems to me like the most promising project at the moment. But = in the end, working code is what counts :-) Erik= From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 29 15:56:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAAB0106564A; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 15:56:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@freebsd.org) Received: from theravensnest.org (theraven.freebsd.your.org [216.14.102.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A62878FC0A; Sun, 29 Jul 2012 15:56:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust445.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com [86.26.13.190]) (authenticated bits=0) by theravensnest.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q6TFul3o055800 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 29 Jul 2012 15:56:49 GMT (envelope-from theraven@freebsd.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 16:56:42 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <387305F0-EAB8-423A-BD67-C49BB4A949D4@freebsd.org> References: <1343484950.37325.YahooMailNeo@web113506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> To: Erik Cederstrand X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: Pedro Giffuni , "freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: BSD ld (was Re: MCLinker and llvm-config) X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 15:56:52 -0000 On 29 Jul 2012, at 16:08, Erik Cederstrand wrote: > MCLinker seems to me like the most promising project at the moment. = But in the end, working code is what counts :-) Agreed. The top requirement on my list was 'actually exists' for that = exact reason: vapourware is of no interest. Unfortunately, while the = lld design is very promising, the progress doesn't look like it will = produce something that is ready in time for 10.0 (including the at-least = six months of testing in -CURRENT that as important as a new linker will = need). =20 MC-Linker has made a huge amount of progress since I last looked at the = project, and has gone from being a toy to a serious contender. = Hopefully we will get external toolchain support (it's on brooks@'s todo = list, and something that I think a few of us will work on at the = DevSummit) soon, which means that the requirement for our system = toolchain can be limited to tier 1 platforms (and one of the = requirements for promoting a platform to tier 1 can be full toolchain = support). Currently, that basically means x86 and x86-64, with ARM = coming Real Soon Now=99. Maybe MIPS (an architecture that manages to = combine the code density of Alpha with the simplicity and elegance of = x86), all of which are supported by MC-Linker. At this stage, it certainly looks as if MC-Linker is going to be the = first to produce something that can link the base system, and that, as = you say, is what matters in the end; working code. David= From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 3 11:36:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4905106566B for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 11:36:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete.chou@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f54.google.com (mail-qa0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A8168FC0A for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 11:36:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qaat11 with SMTP id t11so2220748qaa.13 for ; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 04:36:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:from:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id :subject:to:content-type; bh=iGZJt13Mih4hmrgTz39FLTQ/FZzzNA5AaLmhniPnNOw=; b=YXTtwxQyL5zh+1eFatKQsWiN/zsgg6T+32tq262RlMUs3X81AgLUwWHPsnpv2CZXqN Jb1JK37BxazOd/aoIwPm3RQwoNY8X0nQ1yrZFyn5BDwbdIb4Ga9eCy1E4624A1371ejh NoSaq6trEe9yFn6HiAw7d4jb4ddYRW93SgG+Iw1Xp/TlqHJgY3mnCObFjfHTNW1mB9qr 7OpnejLYAZbUys77YSYhScbCbFa+2t6yd728sqm7FIULRiZevN3OZgo5uX/CrjjNd4mb pMgLxRAYDlsrwAn/b8BicqpJVq0uWcVK+73g9V+6jh7HNNuEAUATmbNjHGCv7quZuoRt fV4Q== Received: by 10.224.176.197 with SMTP id bf5mr2065334qab.41.1343993791214; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 04:36:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: pete.chou@gmail.com Received: by 10.229.79.82 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 04:36:00 -0700 (PDT) From: pete Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 19:36:00 +0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: yMnRXyOxhqKa9xzApWDI94ZAV28 Message-ID: To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: BSD archive file formats X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 11:36:32 -0000 Hi folks, I'm working on archive file format support in MCLinker project. GNU variant archive format is supported in MCLinker now. And from FreeBSD man pages, I can find there are some differences between BSD and GNU variants. However, when I try to check BSD variant on freebsd9 (i386), I can only find GNU variant archive files. And if using "ar" to make an archive file on freebsd9, I still get a GNU variant one. So, I would like to ask if BSD variant supported/existing in BSD system. Or I missed something in configuring or others? I'm new to BSD. Any information will be helpful! Thanks, Pete From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 3 11:43:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43FD6106566B for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 11:43:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@theravensnest.org) Received: from theravensnest.org (theraven.freebsd.your.org [216.14.102.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103BD8FC0C for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 11:43:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from c120.sec.cl.cam.ac.uk (c120.sec.cl.cam.ac.uk [128.232.18.120]) (authenticated bits=0) by theravensnest.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q73BhWQa083974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 3 Aug 2012 11:43:33 GMT (envelope-from theraven@theravensnest.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 12:43:32 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: pete X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD archive file formats X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 11:43:35 -0000 Hi Pete. =20 The end of the man page says: > This manual page documents the ar(1) archive formats used by the = 4.4BSD > and UNIX SVR4 operating system releases. I think it's probably safe to assume that the 4.4BSD format was dropped = at some indeterminate point in the past, probably when we moved from = a.out to ELF format binaries. If the tools currently shipped in the = base system are not producing them, then support is probably not = important - people can always install GNU binutils from ports if it is = for some legacy software. David On 3 Aug 2012, at 12:36, pete wrote: > Hi folks, >=20 > I'm working on archive file format support in MCLinker project. >=20 > GNU variant archive format is supported in MCLinker now. And from = FreeBSD > man pages, I can find there are some differences between BSD and GNU > variants. However, when I try to check BSD variant on freebsd9 (i386), = I > can only find GNU variant archive files. And if using "ar" to make an > archive file on freebsd9, I still get a GNU variant one. >=20 > So, I would like to ask if BSD variant supported/existing in BSD = system. Or > I missed something in configuring or others? >=20 > I'm new to BSD. Any information will be helpful! >=20 > Thanks, > Pete > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-toolchain > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-toolchain-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 3 12:40:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44B15106566B for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 12:40:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete.chou@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f54.google.com (mail-qa0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA0308FC0C for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 12:40:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qaat11 with SMTP id t11so2257921qaa.13 for ; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 05:40:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=iem4QoC4+4154qaReFYGT3ZyaHuMB6doii7LAZZ7Q0w=; b=kQMWRYzSgsh9kZmKGCcm/ISsId0t0RCi96oHbc8AMCtnkKFw9lSvv6+K3p3ttgEGN1 UuAJA0gvD6b+MkrU7mxpYeu/zsx+sSqn2gfBAdxeHUXBynQNhVqok316TQMuGNvJuYVM fiuJhMGIpl3HJ6J0zPBxsyLGFpCaTwIzN09PF4FTGRX+xfHVQ7BzFLaBNm8KU8OWyPZn LCvc75Wmv32UgQWEuBnRF6f6/nA0wE/snrFi92wxrWYNxfKszrRBrSIVpUo1qA/x4zj0 osOtUTgGHvjTHzL55WGZnNZuqIGRiGA/YoQhJg/uevrFIQ2TB+vn9VBwsfYleF8lpYiE xf2A== Received: by 10.224.186.18 with SMTP id cq18mr2386499qab.44.1343997622095; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 05:40:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: pete.chou@gmail.com Received: by 10.229.79.82 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 05:39:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: pete Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 20:39:51 +0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: YxdQbACdQnDTaib9CZSX94CGl3k Message-ID: To: David Chisnall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD archive file formats X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 12:40:23 -0000 Hi David, Thanks for your information! Then I'll probably work on other features development first. And I also checked that MCLinker is able to link itself with archive libraries on i386 FreeBSD9. Thanks, Pete On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 7:43 PM, David Chisnall wrote: > Hi Pete. > > The end of the man page says: > > > This manual page documents the ar(1) archive formats used by the > 4.4BSD > > and UNIX SVR4 operating system releases. > > I think it's probably safe to assume that the 4.4BSD format was dropped at > some indeterminate point in the past, probably when we moved from a.out to > ELF format binaries. If the tools currently shipped in the base system are > not producing them, then support is probably not important - people can > always install GNU binutils from ports if it is for some legacy software. > > David > > On 3 Aug 2012, at 12:36, pete wrote: > > > Hi folks, > > > > I'm working on archive file format support in MCLinker project. > > > > GNU variant archive format is supported in MCLinker now. And from FreeBSD > > man pages, I can find there are some differences between BSD and GNU > > variants. However, when I try to check BSD variant on freebsd9 (i386), I > > can only find GNU variant archive files. And if using "ar" to make an > > archive file on freebsd9, I still get a GNU variant one. > > > > So, I would like to ask if BSD variant supported/existing in BSD system. > Or > > I missed something in configuring or others? > > > > I'm new to BSD. Any information will be helpful! > > > > Thanks, > > Pete > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-toolchain > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-toolchain-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 3 13:19:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D996D106564A for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 13:19:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from theravensnest.org (theraven.freebsd.your.org [216.14.102.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BFEF8FC12 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 13:19:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from c120.sec.cl.cam.ac.uk (c120.sec.cl.cam.ac.uk [128.232.18.120]) (authenticated bits=0) by theravensnest.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q73DJF7N084260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 3 Aug 2012 13:19:16 GMT (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 14:19:15 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: pete X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: BSD archive file formats X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:19:23 -0000 On 3 Aug 2012, at 13:39, pete wrote: > And I also checked that MCLinker is able to link itself with archive = libraries on i386 FreeBSD9. This is the bit we care about. The system linker must, at a minimum, be = able to link the base system. There are a great many other features = that we want, but this is the requirement for replacing GNU ld in the = base system. David From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 3 15:18:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32C5106564A; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 15:18:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete.chou@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f54.google.com (mail-qa0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96C3C8FC1B; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 15:18:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qaat11 with SMTP id t11so2451734qaa.13 for ; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 08:18:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=LgE4v2LaY002OesIv9PmSmnnUXHaDcR+BjP/szJQBw4=; b=JBv1xzaASZSykjm28avSShtZnGCtnnV0sRug8/2ZgudEkcfp4P1SoaVhZ0IG1V2H1k kt0Gnb00Gb22VAS8AVX3diazqFdFJzNzoMxmsLg7E27MRuccKwpE9QGNbQUtbVAOfQW2 EQsC/IC74TTykxu4fa7We5HQgLNXm1Bz3sHC+0/5lH3yupyNNH0JlwLkmPSx0yI8Nh4z cI9oyYwa+z/wgEMJIQ9N/nWa9Xt83qkYZ70/WOzZa1cgNMz971VM8QOKfaYxUM2b1x7W 2JJUqGHLycjbgzcmN5VLeU91MAZoMLBstQ3T26ELcnNg2ZK3cmaIJ0mRBTnUvfglJuPl 0KsQ== Received: by 10.229.137.146 with SMTP id w18mr973906qct.119.1344007116119; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 08:18:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: pete.chou@gmail.com Received: by 10.229.79.82 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 08:18:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: pete Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 23:18:05 +0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: bWMt2IJiVPgkTKPZAYiJ8KkM5OI Message-ID: To: David Chisnall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD archive file formats X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 15:18:43 -0000 Sure! Making MCLinker be a solid toolchain/system linker is an important goal in the project. Thanks, Pete On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 9:19 PM, David Chisnall wrote: > On 3 Aug 2012, at 13:39, pete wrote: > > > And I also checked that MCLinker is able to link itself with archive > libraries on i386 FreeBSD9. > > This is the bit we care about. The system linker must, at a minimum, be > able to link the base system. There are a great many other features that > we want, but this is the requirement for replacing GNU ld in the base > system. > > David > > From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 3 15:56:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEA101065670 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 15:56:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA79B8FC16 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 15:56:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so1570917obb.13 for ; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 08:56:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=ogTAJKQ4OWlkQZZbGqL7d5CNd6+s0A1g24JX1MY+B4I=; b=CH5vacUoqTs1TeDwThgkkV6QiIAEkS6lq3BrMqyrXAdTv2/YLrn43Pg4vA5gxGuvY/ A05HuOmPn1L660LNJMY6clyhOyL6mJj2OkEhSrRvbr69clnha0kqV23buvZwJd2Kk5UH Nkk3I4fhmRkvpC9R2s6ySm6lb78+3b9agmg+sWpLyWAPJ9vzHGgSAVc4iAQkemvPidPE PF19VQkQqXiKpfOv/pPNQ/prap0gwMZNXDVcB+ipABCjlre5IZIUdLjCdMqJBC5rkjDp aRY2S6VlHDlL0QxmfRtF/NzsYtmsoz3CuRmszri28pVj+jdmy8Fvnx+ZJlVqLYJhpB6a eGgw== Received: by 10.182.164.10 with SMTP id ym10mr5725155obb.75.1344009359841; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 08:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.101.53] ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l9sm8032322oeg.3.2012.08.03.08.55.59 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 03 Aug 2012 08:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 09:55:57 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9F286684-EA0B-4F6F-8C1F-0036DF9A0C53@bsdimp.com> References: To: pete X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlbwO05tGD/CF33lYUQJHp9R79sLqSDoQK/3oHw8KTz+nmttaBKfvK1uLyyPQIuUd1UCjor Cc: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org, David Chisnall Subject: Re: BSD archive file formats X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 15:56:01 -0000 Hi Pete, the best way to find out if support for archives are needed is to = release it for testing. People find the craziest things when testing in = a wider arena. Alternatively, see if can survive /usr/ports being thrown at it :) even = clang can't do that yet (although it isn't always clang's fault for = reasons too numerous to enumerate here). Warner On Aug 3, 2012, at 6:39 AM, pete wrote: > Hi David, >=20 > Thanks for your information! Then I'll probably work on other features > development first. And I also checked that MCLinker is able to link = itself > with archive libraries on i386 FreeBSD9. >=20 > Thanks, > Pete >=20 > On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 7:43 PM, David Chisnall > wrote: >=20 >> Hi Pete. >>=20 >> The end of the man page says: >>=20 >>> This manual page documents the ar(1) archive formats used by the >> 4.4BSD >>> and UNIX SVR4 operating system releases. >>=20 >> I think it's probably safe to assume that the 4.4BSD format was = dropped at >> some indeterminate point in the past, probably when we moved from = a.out to >> ELF format binaries. If the tools currently shipped in the base = system are >> not producing them, then support is probably not important - people = can >> always install GNU binutils from ports if it is for some legacy = software. >>=20 >> David >>=20 >> On 3 Aug 2012, at 12:36, pete wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi folks, >>>=20 >>> I'm working on archive file format support in MCLinker project. >>>=20 >>> GNU variant archive format is supported in MCLinker now. And from = FreeBSD >>> man pages, I can find there are some differences between BSD and GNU >>> variants. However, when I try to check BSD variant on freebsd9 = (i386), I >>> can only find GNU variant archive files. And if using "ar" to make = an >>> archive file on freebsd9, I still get a GNU variant one. >>>=20 >>> So, I would like to ask if BSD variant supported/existing in BSD = system. >> Or >>> I missed something in configuring or others? >>>=20 >>> I'm new to BSD. Any information will be helpful! >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Pete >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org mailing list >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-toolchain >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " >> freebsd-toolchain-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>=20 >>=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-toolchain > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-toolchain-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"