From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 18 15:00:01 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@smarthost.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E15C04BD for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 15:00:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A80732B19 for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 15:00:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r7IF01pi041963 for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 15:00:01 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id r7IF01Me041962; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 15:00:01 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 15:00:01 GMT Resent-Message-Id: <201308181500.r7IF01Me041962@freefall.freebsd.org> Resent-From: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org (GNATS Filer) Resent-To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Resent-Reply-To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, Tanaka Akira Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506E3459 for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 14:53:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nobody@FreeBSD.org) Received: from oldred.freebsd.org (oldred.freebsd.org [8.8.178.121]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E2632AEC for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 14:53:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from oldred.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.6]) by oldred.freebsd.org (8.14.5/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r7IErlX2035054 for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 14:53:47 GMT (envelope-from nobody@oldred.freebsd.org) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by oldred.freebsd.org (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id r7IErlCs035048; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 14:53:47 GMT (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <201308181453.r7IErlCs035048@oldred.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 14:53:47 GMT From: Tanaka Akira To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: www-3.1 Subject: docs/181376: CLOCK_THREAD_CPUTIME_ID is not documented in the manual X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 15:00:01 -0000 >Number: 181376 >Category: docs >Synopsis: CLOCK_THREAD_CPUTIME_ID is not documented in the manual >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sun Aug 18 15:00:01 UTC 2013 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Tanaka Akira >Release: FreeBSD 9.1-RELEASE >Organization: FSIJ >Environment: FreeBSD freebsd9 9.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 9.1-RELEASE #0 r243825: Tue Dec 4 09:23:10 UTC 2012 root@farrell.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 >Description: CLOCK_THREAD_CPUTIME_ID is not described in the manual page, clock_gettime(2). FreeBSD 7.1 Release Notes describes that CLOCK_THREAD_CPUTIME_ID is supported. http://www.freebsd.org/releases/7.1R/relnotes.html >How-To-Repeat: $ man clock_gettime|grep CLOCK_THREAD_CPUTIME_ID $ >Fix: >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 19 04:25:19 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@smarthost.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 484D2D10; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:25:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E69E201F; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:25:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r7J4PI76011810; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:25:18 GMT (envelope-from linimon@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from linimon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id r7J4PIe3011809; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:25:18 GMT (envelope-from linimon) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:25:18 GMT Message-Id: <201308190425.r7J4PIe3011809@freefall.freebsd.org> To: linimon@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org From: linimon@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/181390: seq(1) first appeared in 8th UNIX X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:25:19 -0000 Old Synopsis: seq first appeared in 8th UNIX New Synopsis: seq(1) first appeared in 8th UNIX Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-bugs->freebsd-doc Responsible-Changed-By: linimon Responsible-Changed-When: Mon Aug 19 04:25:01 UTC 2013 Responsible-Changed-Why: reclassify. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=181390 From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 19 06:32:14 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@smarthost.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA1A251; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:32:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from culot@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C9FB256C; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:32:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r7J6WEa1037997; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:32:14 GMT (envelope-from culot@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from culot@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id r7J6WE5q037996; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:32:14 GMT (envelope-from culot) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:32:14 GMT Message-Id: <201308190632.r7J6WE5q037996@freefall.freebsd.org> To: culot@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org, culot@FreeBSD.org From: culot@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/181390: seq(1) first appeared in 8th UNIX X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:32:14 -0000 Synopsis: seq(1) first appeared in 8th UNIX Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->culot Responsible-Changed-By: culot Responsible-Changed-When: Mon Aug 19 06:32:13 UTC 2013 Responsible-Changed-Why: I'll take it. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=181390 From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 19 06:40:13 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@smarthost.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FDEB5BA; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:40:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from culot@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 357CC25BD; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:40:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r7J6eDtt042068; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:40:13 GMT (envelope-from culot@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from culot@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id r7J6eDns042067; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:40:13 GMT (envelope-from culot) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:40:13 GMT Message-Id: <201308190640.r7J6eDns042067@freefall.freebsd.org> To: culot@FreeBSD.org, culot@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org From: culot@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/181390: seq(1) first appeared in 8th UNIX X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:40:13 -0000 Synopsis: seq(1) first appeared in 8th UNIX Responsible-Changed-From-To: culot->freebsd-doc Responsible-Changed-By: culot Responsible-Changed-When: Mon Aug 19 06:40:12 UTC 2013 Responsible-Changed-Why: Oops, wrong PR number, sorry http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=181390 From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 19 07:38:45 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: www@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE5EB56C for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 07:38:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gerald@pfeifer.com) Received: from ainaz.pair.com (ainaz.pair.com [209.68.2.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FA55285F for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 07:38:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.118.51.84] (77.117.247.84.wireless.dyn.drei.com [77.117.247.84]) by ainaz.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CCED3F410 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 03:38:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 09:38:36 +0200 (CEST) From: Gerald Pfeifer To: www@FreeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD OpenSearch plugins (not working) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 07:38:45 -0000 The OpenSerach plugins offered http://www.freebsd.org/search/opensearch/ appear very useful and I know I've used one or the other in the past. Alas, when I select one of these (http://www.freebsd.org/search/opensearch/portoverview.xml, say) in Firefox 23 but also older versions, all I get so see is the raw XML ("This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.") and there does not seem any natural way to actually add the plugin. How can I add one of those? Does it work for others? Gerald From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 19 11:06:04 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AFA3AF4 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:06:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB6822492 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:06:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r7JB63aN005145 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:06:03 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id r7JB631B005143 for freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:06:03 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:06:03 GMT Message-Id: <201308191106.r7JB631B005143@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: gnats set sender to owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: FreeBSD doc list Subject: Current unassigned doc problem reports X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:06:04 -0000 (Note: an HTML version of this report is available at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr-summary.cgi?category=doc .) The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o docs/181390 doc seq(1) first appeared in 8th UNIX o docs/181376 doc CLOCK_THREAD_CPUTIME_ID is not documented in clock_get o docs/181280 doc suggestion: split zfs man page in a zfs- way o docs/181142 doc [handbook] bad links for xfce4 desktop environment o docs/181134 doc Fix example for boot0cfg utility o docs/181080 doc porters-handbook: mention PLIST_DIRSTRY o docs/180970 doc [request] No manpage for ps_strings o docs/180767 doc [patch] printf.3: fix off-by-one in snprintf descripti o docs/180658 doc [handbook] add detail to pkgng part of the handbook o docs/180493 doc [handbook] Single-user mode console confusion o docs/180332 doc SSD Kernel Instructions Out of Date: options MFS throw o docs/180331 doc SSD Kernel Instructions Out of Date: options MD_ROOT a o docs/180330 doc SSD Kernel Instructions Out of Date: pseudo-device no o docs/180027 doc Missing man page entries for callout_reset_sbt in time o docs/179988 doc [faq] [patch] ThwackAFAQ - sandbox p docs/179914 doc remove inactive user dougb from mergemaster maintainer o docs/179832 doc manual page of mac_from_text suggests incorrect freein o docs/179697 doc Handbook incomplete WRT Opera flash usage (linproc) o docs/179560 doc [handbook] brazilian portuguese translation to "DTrace o docs/179552 doc [handbook] brazilian portuguese translation to "Instal o docs/179541 doc [handbook] brazilian portuguese translation to "Obtain o docs/179497 doc [patch] service.8 add csh completion example o docs/179246 doc [patch] gnome porting updates o docs/178818 doc gmirror(8) says to use rc.early which is no longer ava o docs/178730 doc move roff papers out of src into doc o docs/178677 doc *** [article.html] Error code 1 Stop in /usr/doc. o docs/178286 doc [PATCH] document the LOCAL_* vars in build(7) o docs/178221 doc Addition to handbook jails chapter: warning about make o www/178190 doc myths web page should be updated o docs/178119 doc [ports] Porter's handbook lacks examples for using Opt o docs/178077 doc [patch] Correct description of -webnfs in exports.5 o docs/177968 doc bpf(4): documentation of BIOCROTZBUF is incomplete o docs/177699 doc Documentation (handbook and manpage) for mac_biba does o docs/177514 doc [handbook] ZFS examples do not cover dataset creation o docs/177457 doc diskinfo(8): diskinfo -v shows inacurate drive size o docs/177431 doc Handbook & Announcements recommend poor dd options for o docs/177429 doc dd(1) man page is unclear about semantics of conv=sync o docs/177215 doc [handbook] [patch] FreeBSD uses SHA512 and no more MD5 o docs/177056 doc typo in link in handbook section 31.4.16 o docs/176806 doc recv(2) man page grammatical fixes o docs/176648 doc restore(8) man page is misleading/confusing o docs/176645 doc The example in netmap.4 is wrong o docs/176583 doc getifaddrs(3) - struct ifa_data not exist o docs/176363 doc Remove mention of 'CVSup' from "Mirroring FreeBSD arti o docs/176355 doc Attribution and correction of quote in fortune o docs/176251 doc FreeBSD Handbook assumes too much pre-knowledge o docs/176127 doc [handbook] add information about all missing mailing l o docs/176125 doc missing summary of freebsd-jail mailing list o docs/176123 doc missing summary of freebsd-sysinstall mailing list o docs/176015 doc [handbook] wrong order in docs for major upgrade o docs/175995 doc Setting MALLOC_PRODUCTION stops buildworld o docs/175983 doc man zfs are missing "hold, release" from "zfs allow" o docs/175712 doc Update 'disk naming' handbook page o docs/175687 doc pthread_setschedparam(3) may fail for undocumented rea o docs/175560 doc ugen(4) man page contains incorrect device node path o docs/175239 doc sem_wait can be interrupted o docs/175123 doc [geom] gpart list/status isn't documented in usage sec o docs/174868 doc mount(2) doesn't do a good job at describing all possi o docs/174792 doc synopsis for nsupdate(1) missing options -L, and -p o docs/174581 doc man page of recvmsg(2) does not mention return value 0 o docs/173710 doc Added section "MTP storage" to handbook o docs/173539 doc [patch] statfs(2) man page missed the error code ENOSY o docs/173321 doc ports(7) man page -- no info on building with debuggin o docs/173013 doc FreeBSD Boot Menu documentation lacks detail o docs/172927 doc ipfw(8): ipfw manual page doesn't show simpliest NAT c o docs/172913 doc [ipsec] [patch] setkey(8) is unclear on anti-replay wi o docs/172869 doc [PATCH] Add in nifty lang icons to index.html (home) o docs/172743 doc IPv6 handbooks lacks info about accepting router adver o docs/172626 doc [PATCH] modify the community/* pages to look more plea o docs/172370 doc [handbook] Handbook should be updated for Blu-Ray driv o docs/172369 doc mkisofs(8)/growisofs(1m) don't specify UDF version o docs/172368 doc mount_udf(8) doesn't specify which versions of UDF are o docs/172367 doc ata(4) man page needs an updated for Blu-Ray o docs/172330 doc [PATCH] Fix some errors introduced to announce.xml by o docs/172144 doc psignal(9) manpage is outdated for FreeBSD-9 systems o docs/172137 doc deprecated information for adduser(8) man pages o docs/171199 doc the GDB man page is outdated o docs/170691 doc Difference between zfs manpages and reality o docs/170223 doc IPv6 configuration section for 9.x is incorrect o docs/170119 doc at behaviour and man at inconsistency o docs/169712 doc [patch] porters-handbook zh_TW.Big5 apache section o docs/169711 doc [patch] porters-handbook zh_CN.GB2312 apache section o docs/169544 doc serial port console documentation changes s docs/169401 doc passify dead links in release links, move www to lists o docs/169377 doc [patch] ipmon(8) man page refers to a different facili o docs/169317 doc zfs umount refers to umount(1M) but should to umount(8 o docs/169158 doc [patch] iasl(8) man page is out of date f docs/168939 doc Port upgrade documentation missing from Application Ja o docs/168930 doc map_mincore(9) not up-to-date o docs/168915 doc size of integers used by test(1) and sh(1) is not docu o docs/168823 doc 404s in fr_FR French web pages o docs/168814 doc [patch] remove `d` negative pointer EINVAL requirement o docs/168803 doc Remove outdated smp info o docs/167429 doc geli(8) needs to mention unencrypted /etc/fstab requir o docs/166553 doc find(1): find -delete documentation is misleading o docs/166358 doc No networking in Jail build via: handbook/jail-tuning o conf/166330 doc [rc] [patch] Thin server configuration revision reques o docs/165551 doc ipfw(8): no info in "ipfw pipe show" about ipv6 o docs/165249 doc Multibyte characters in manpages still not displaying o docs/164803 doc Unclear manual page for mount_unionfs(8) o docs/164620 doc Raid 1 issues o docs/164099 doc gparm(8): man page for gparm set is incorrect and inco o docs/164034 doc acl(9) documentation lacking o docs/163879 doc [handbook] handbook does not say about how to force to o docs/163830 doc device smbios: missing documentation, no manpage o docs/163149 doc [patch] Red Hat Linux/i386 9 HTML format sudo man page o docs/162765 doc [patch] lseek(2) may return successful although no see o docs/162587 doc unclear/incomplete description of per-interface statis o docs/162419 doc [request] please document (new) zfs and zpool cmdline o docs/162404 doc [handbook] IPv6 link-local address compared with IPv4 o docs/161754 doc p4tcc(4), est(4) and qpi(4) are not documented o docs/161496 doc zfs(1): Please document that sysctl vfs.usermount must o docs/160460 doc [handbook] Network setup guide suggestion o docs/160446 doc [handbook] Handbook sound setup seems outdated o docs/160399 doc Man page for re(4) missing jumbo frames info o docs/159307 doc [patch] lpd smm chapter unconditionally installed o docs/158388 doc Incorrect documentation of LOCAL_SCRIPT in release(7) o docs/158387 doc The tree(3) man should mention the RB_FOREACH_SAFE() A o docs/157908 doc [handbook] Description of post-install should include o docs/157698 doc [patch] gpart(8) man page contains old/incorrect size o docs/157316 doc [patch] update devstat(9) man page o docs/157049 doc FreeBSD Handbook: Chapter 14 (Security) Inaccuracy o docs/156920 doc isspecial(3) is not helpful o docs/156815 doc chmod(1): manpage should describe that chmod kicks +t o docs/156689 doc stf(4) output-only documentation gives bad configurati f docs/156187 doc [handbook] [patch] Add bsnmpd to handbook o docs/156081 doc troff falls with troff.core with UTF-8 man with incorr o docs/155982 doc [handbook] reaper of the dead: remove reference to flo o docs/155149 doc [patch] don't encourage using xorg.conf outside of PRE o docs/154838 doc update cvs-tags information on releng_* to reflect sup o docs/153958 doc ksu man-page documented, but not installed a docs/153012 doc [patch] iostat(8) requires an argument to -c option o docs/151752 doc pw.conf(5) doesn't define format for file clearly o docs/150991 doc [patch] Install upgtfw using pkg_add as advised in upg o docs/150917 doc [patch] icmp.4, wrong description of icmplim and icmpl o docs/150877 doc ambiguity in newsyslog(8) man page about zfs with comp o docs/150255 doc dtrace description should mention makeoptions DEBUG=-g o docs/149574 doc [patch] update mi_switch(9) man page o docs/148987 doc [patch] {MD[245]|SHA_|SHA1_|SHA256_}{End|File|FileChun o docs/148984 doc [handbook] Mistake in section 16.15.4 of the handbook o docs/148680 doc [sysctl][patch] Document some sys/kern sysctls o docs/148071 doc Failover mode between wired and wireless interfaces o docs/147995 doc elf.5 man page has has missing reference o docs/146521 doc [handbook] Update IPv6 system handbook section to ment o docs/145699 doc hexdump(1) mutes all format qualifier output following o docs/145069 doc Dialup firewalling with FreeBSD article out dated. o docs/145066 doc Update for new uart dev names for serial port. s docs/144818 doc all mailinglist archives dated 19970101 contain traili o docs/144515 doc [handbook] Expand handbook Table of contents o docs/143472 doc gethostname(3) references undefined value: HOST_NAME_M o docs/143416 doc [handbook] IPFW handbook page issues o docs/143408 doc man filedesc(9) is missing o docs/141032 doc misleading documentation for rtadvd.conf(5) raflags se s docs/140847 doc [request] add documentation on ECMP and new route args o docs/140444 doc [patch] New Traditional Chinese translation of custom- o docs/140375 doc [UPDATE] Updated zh_TW.Big5/articles/nanobsd o docs/139336 doc [request] ZFS documentation suggestion o docs/139165 doc gssapi.3 man page out of sync with between crypto and o docs/139018 doc translation of submitting.sgml from docproj/submitting o docs/138845 doc Exceeding kern.ipc.maxpipekva refers to tuning(7) whic o docs/138485 doc bpf(4) and ip(4) man pages missing important corner ca o docs/136712 doc [handbook] [patch] draft new section on gmirror per pa o docs/136666 doc [handbook] Configure serial port for remote kernel deb o docs/136035 doc ftpchroot(5) omits an important option o docs/135516 doc [patch] pax(1) manual not mentioning chflags unawarene o docs/132839 doc [patch] Fix example script in ldap-auth article o docs/132718 doc [handbook] Information about adding a new mirror is ou o docs/132260 doc dhcpd(8) pid not stored in documented location o docs/132190 doc EPERM explanation for send(2), sendto(2), and sendmsg( o docs/131918 doc [patch] Fixes for the BPF(4) man page o docs/131626 doc [patch] dump(8) "recommended" cache option confusing o docs/130238 doc nfs.lockd man page doesn't mention NFSLOCKD option or o docs/129671 doc New TCP chapter for Developer's Handbook (from rwatson o docs/129464 doc using packages system o docs/129095 doc ipfw(8): Can not check that packet originating/destine o docs/128356 doc [request] add Firefox plugin for FreeBSD manual pages s docs/127844 doc Example code skeleton_capture_n.c in meteor(4) manpage o docs/126484 doc libc function res-zonscut2 is not documented f docs/122052 doc minor update on handbook section 20.7.1 o docs/121952 doc Handbook chapter on Network Address Translation wrong o docs/121585 doc [handbook] Wrong multicast specification s docs/121541 doc [request] no man pages for wlan_scan_ap o docs/121312 doc RELNOTES_LANG breaks release if not en_US.ISO8859-1 o docs/121173 doc [patch] mq_getattr(2): mq_flags mistakenly described a s docs/120917 doc [request]: Man pages mising for thr_xxx syscalls o docs/120125 doc [patch] Installing FreeBSD 7.0 via serial console and o docs/120024 doc resolver(5) and hosts(5) need updated for IPv6 o docs/119545 doc books/arch-handbook/usb/chapter.sgml formatting o docs/118214 doc close(2) error returns incomplete o docs/116588 doc No IPFW tables or dummynet in Handbook o docs/116080 doc PREFIX is documented, but not the more important LOCAL o docs/114371 doc [patch] [ip6] rtadvd.con(5) should show how to adverti o docs/114139 doc mbuf(9) has misleading comments on M_DONTWAIT and M_TR o docs/113194 doc [patch] [request] crontab.5: handling of day-in-month o docs/112579 doc [request] No ipv6 related pf examples in /usr/share/ex o docs/111425 doc Missing chunks of text in historical manpages o docs/111265 doc [request] Clarify how to set common shell variables o docs/110999 doc carp(4) should document unsupported interface types o docs/110692 doc wi(4) man page doesn't say WPA is not supported o docs/110376 doc [patch] add some more explanations for the iwi/ipw fir o docs/110062 doc [patch] mount_nfs(8) fails to mention a failure condit o docs/109981 doc No manual entry for post-grohtml o docs/109977 doc No manual entry for ksu o docs/109972 doc No manual entry for zless/bzless f docs/109226 doc [request] No manual entry for sntp o docs/109201 doc [request]: manual for callbootd a docs/108980 doc list of missing man pages o docs/105608 doc fdc(4) debugging description staled o docs/104879 doc Howto: Listen to IMA ADPCM .wav files on FreeBSD box o docs/102719 doc [patch] ng_bpf(4) example leads to unneeded promiscuos o docs/101271 doc serial console documentation implies kernel rebuild re o docs/100196 doc man login.conf does explain not "unlimited" o docs/98974 doc Missing tunables in loader(8) manpage o docs/98115 doc Missing parts after rendering handbook to RTF format o docs/96207 doc Comments of a sockaddr_un structure could confuse one o docs/95408 doc install over serial console does not work as documente o docs/94625 doc [patch] growfs man page -- document "panic: not enough o docs/92626 doc jail manpage should mention disabling some periodic sc o docs/91149 doc read(2) can return EINVAL for unaligned access to bloc o docs/88512 doc [patch] mount_ext2fs(8) man page has no details on lar o docs/87936 doc Handbook chapter on NIS/YP lacks good information on a o docs/87857 doc ifconfig(8) wireless options order matters o docs/85128 doc [patch] loader.conf(5) autoboot_delay incompletly desc o docs/84956 doc [patch] intro(5) manpage doesn't mention API coverage o docs/84932 doc new document: printing with an Epson ALC-3000N on Free o docs/84670 doc [patch] tput(1) manpage missing ENVIRONMENT section wi o docs/84317 doc fdp-primer doesn't show class=USERNAME distinctively o docs/84271 doc [patch] compress(1) doesn't warn about nasty link hand o docs/83820 doc getino(3) manpage not installed o docs/81611 doc [patch] natd runs with -same_ports by default o docs/78480 doc Networked printer setup unnecessarily complex in handb o docs/61301 doc [patch] Manpage patch for aue(4) to enable HomePNA fun o docs/59835 doc ipfw(8) man page does not warn about accepted but mean o docs/59477 doc Outdated Info Documents at http://docs.freebsd.org/inf o docs/57298 doc [patch] add using compact flash cards info to handbook s docs/54752 doc bus_dma explained in ISA section in Handbook: should b o docs/53751 doc bus_dma(9) incorrectly documents BUS_DMA_ALLOCNOW o docs/53596 doc Updates to mt(1) manual page o docs/53271 doc bus_dma(9) fails to document alignment restrictions o docs/51480 doc Multiple undefined references in the FreeBSD manual pa o kern/51341 doc [ipfw] [patch] ipfw rule 'deny icmp from any to any ic o docs/50211 doc [patch] doc.docbook.mk: fix textfile creation o docs/48101 doc [patch] Add documentation on the fixit disk o docs/47594 doc [patch] passwd(5) incorrectly states allowed username o docs/45303 doc Bug in PDF DocBook rendering o docs/43823 doc [patch] update to environ(7) manpage o docs/41089 doc pax(1) -B option does not mention interaction with -z o docs/40423 doc Keyboard(4)'s definition of parameters to GETFKEY/SETF o docs/36724 doc ipnat(5) manpage grammar is incomplete and inconsisten s docs/33589 doc [patch] to doc.docbook.mk to post process .tex files. o docs/26286 doc *printf(3) etc should gain format string warnings o docs/24786 doc missing FILES descriptions in sa(4) s docs/20028 doc ASCII docs should reflect tags in the sourc 253 problems total. From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 19 17:07:27 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3FFBB5 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 17:07:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 336222B36 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 17:07:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r7JH7QXD017115 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:07:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) with ESMTP id r7JH7P66017112 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:07:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:07:25 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Updating translation workflow Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:07:26 -0600 (MDT) X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 17:07:27 -0000 We have some problems with our translation workflow, and updating it could make life easier for everyone. Note that as an American, I barely speak English, so there may be misconceptions in the following. Please correct me if necessary. * Translators work too hard. No automation, no assistance from the computer to see what needs to be translated, no reuse of previously-translated terms. Because of this, updating translations after the English version changes can take a long time. * Few new translators are willing to work that hard, so we are missing up-to-date translations to several important world languages. * Separating whitespace and content patches makes it more difficult for writers to edit existing English documents. The current workflow, such as it is, is very, very old. Since it was created, new ways to translate have come about. PC-BSD is using Pootle (textproc/pootle, http://pootle.translatehouse.org/) for their documentation: http://pootle.pcbsd.org/ I think we can use a combination of tools to work with our existing documents. The workflow would be like this: 1. Use textproc/itstool to create a "strings to be translated" file (.pot) from an XML file. 2. Use pootle as a database to translate any of those strings that have not already been translated. 3. Use itstool to merge the translated strings back into the XML file. 4. Build the translated document (DocBook or XHTML) as normal. The first difficulty I've found is that itstool does not like entities. It could be modified to accept them, but probably the more correct procedure for translations is to expand them before using itstool. This would be more correct for translations, as it's been explained to me, because some languages modify nouns depending on how they are used. (In other words, our use of entities can be English-centric.) Is there an easy way to expand entities? From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 20 11:37:16 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C884B772 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 11:37:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pali.gabor@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-x234.google.com (mail-ob0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9556627D0 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 11:37:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f180.google.com with SMTP id up14so376825obb.11 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 04:37:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=BJvHHQv5BNCzNMhrKoUorVk1xdrf0vfdm92DRl7Jv/Q=; b=p2TrX125jFSj6IF8z/ayIRZr6N4Neb54/sEpDwtOTRd1vvNZTdBd3a1uEg8af6Qd0k 97yJXeyCIYluALQ1BAP55iRfJgeVQkQl2/pX1MFD8tfTYgHFmvhWjFfara7l5ST8lfRd nBhpdEqLhLhqXAxbi+WwoyZnOivEVIo6wKwA2P09SREU0R2iKYzG7lUZRfYvH1cKtzHk jf8toQQX4lAVaI+Alz3+79amN2VsDtRCzQxp1jIVXebVjr9U5BLve9jbZrVCEK04k4et nbua/wPPJBUA3K+YVq1fvrZcJvQ33OZu6PPz89vZQfeqgeAaMp7InY6K4J8Yy9njt3Wq qcvw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.101.165 with SMTP id fh5mr1017636obb.58.1376998635852; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 04:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Sender: pali.gabor@gmail.com Received: by 10.182.32.101 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 04:37:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 12:37:15 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: SQn5Ovhy-EfgaynKDxk5cFRel7o Message-ID: Subject: Re: Updating translation workflow From: Gabor Pali To: Warren Block Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "doc@FreeBSD.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 11:37:16 -0000 Hi Warren, On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Warren Block wrote: > * Translators work too hard. No automation, no assistance from the > computer to see what needs to be translated I am not sure of this. A few years ago we seem to have a consensus on an informal "API" that allows tracking untranslated changes [1]. This was the %SRCID% tag placed in the translated files. Using this tag, one could generate nice stats about the work to do [2], and get the diffs to work with. At least, that is what I did for a few years... > no reuse of previously-translated terms. I have maintained a vocabulary for the translation of commonly used expressions [3] in the past. So I was consistent with myself at least :-P [1] http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/cvs-doc/2008-June/018345.html [2] http://people.freebsd.org/~pgj/checkupdate/fdp.nl.reminder.txt [3] https://wiki.freebsd.org/HungarianDocumentationProjectVocabulary From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 20 15:13:08 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F4994AB; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:13:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11DE726AE; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:13:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r7KFD6p6096533; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:13:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) with ESMTP id r7KFD6fg096530; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:13:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:13:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Gabor Pali Subject: Re: Updating translation workflow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:13:06 -0600 (MDT) Cc: "doc@FreeBSD.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:13:08 -0000 On Tue, 20 Aug 2013, Gabor Pali wrote: > Hi Warren, > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Warren Block wrote: >> * Translators work too hard. No automation, no assistance from the >> computer to see what needs to be translated > > I am not sure of this. A few years ago we seem to have a consensus on > an informal "API" that allows tracking untranslated changes [1]. This > was the %SRCID% tag placed in the translated files. Using this tag, > one could generate nice stats about the work to do [2], and get the > diffs to work with. At least, that is what I did for a few years... Interesting! >> no reuse of previously-translated terms. > > I have maintained a vocabulary for the translation of commonly used > expressions [3] in the past. So I was consistent with myself at least > :-P Well, yes, but this appears to be manual and does not automatically translate the same strings that are found in other documents. That is part of what the newer automated systems do. > [1] http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/cvs-doc/2008-June/018345.html > [2] http://people.freebsd.org/~pgj/checkupdate/fdp.nl.reminder.txt > [3] https://wiki.freebsd.org/HungarianDocumentationProjectVocabulary I did find a patch for itstool that seems to be what is needed to add DTD support so entities are expanded. I have not tested it yet. https://gitorious.org/~gmcharlt/itstool/gmcharlts-itstool From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 20 16:52:16 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 599FDC13 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:52:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pali.gabor@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-x22e.google.com (mail-ob0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 267FF2CEC for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:52:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f174.google.com with SMTP id wd6so1003528obb.5 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:52:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=OYKY+RjSpEVgSPiGKAL4y/k03UiEgYz4cWYuZybE/iE=; b=TnamAMRTilEnYVZC6VwFFghUCTeNxIHK5mKyNLiErDm7j4ai+jHHtWx3tHuKgie/Z1 qjo0O0GlRbTmZt5wqvn4lRp+fllid+bBi1NyJygxmCB4FApAMUZMaEOhTFSBXvvYHHBJ A4iv7m+T3IKYWtH2JfhDD3bp6d7TePwYzXZydSqXaE9Zc78pb+0EDoee9HDxcDnCDvLc yMLl39RnFGG7YrulkKU8zVk/vsfYj1vKfupRq3njIkZyYkxOUQHcaN4cObtk8H6GQPWa LFAqpP/UdHhl1PPSTf/BLxy7UAGoVWUVfukyuWDw3qIzR40y0T10iOxIuE+OyqRdzvIV sO7A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.45.98 with SMTP id l2mr2055299oem.95.1377017535376; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Sender: pali.gabor@gmail.com Received: by 10.182.32.101 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:52:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:52:15 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 1F0F8Jb4zU9edsp2alTdnNJ0QwE Message-ID: Subject: Re: Updating translation workflow From: Gabor Pali To: Warren Block Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "doc@FreeBSD.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:52:16 -0000 On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Warren Block wrote: > Well, yes, but this appears to be manual and does not automatically > translate the same strings that are found in other documents. That is part > of what the newer automated systems do. Erm, I am a bit skeptic about this as nouns (and expressions) in Hungarian may be conjugated; inserting them into a sentence would require one to understand the original context of the word -- that is, if some automated system could translate those words in case of such a language, no humans would be required any more at all... :-) From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 20 17:10:58 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70407393; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:10:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E9EF2E20; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:10:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r7KHAp60097290; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 11:10:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) with ESMTP id r7KHAppQ097287; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 11:10:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 11:10:51 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Gabor Pali Subject: Re: Updating translation workflow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 20 Aug 2013 11:10:51 -0600 (MDT) Cc: "doc@FreeBSD.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:10:58 -0000 On Tue, 20 Aug 2013, Gabor Pali wrote: > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Warren Block wrote: >> Well, yes, but this appears to be manual and does not automatically >> translate the same strings that are found in other documents. That is part >> of what the newer automated systems do. > > Erm, I am a bit skeptic about this as nouns (and expressions) in > Hungarian may be conjugated; inserting them into a sentence would > require one to understand the original context of the word -- that is, > if some automated system could translate those words in case of such a > language, no humans would be required any more at all... :-) I would think translations of larger strings ("This is an example of a FreeBSD system") would override translations of smaller strings ("FreeBSD"). But it's not clear, and a test would help. Certainly it can be made to work. Other large projects are using these systems, with a lot of content translated. Because of the translation database, rewrites or massive edits would force the translators to start over. From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 20 17:50:22 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94970BB6 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:50:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 000001409cd45cc6-d21197bc-99df-4d29-ab59-2b76ca9b101d-000000@amazonses.com) Received: from a8-74.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-74.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.74]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64595205C for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:50:21 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <000001409cd45cc6-d21197bc-99df-4d29-ab59-2b76ca9b101d-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:44:57 +0000 From: "Nicole Stoff" To: doc@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Broken Link Reminder X-SES-Outgoing: 2013.08.20-54.240.8.74 X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:50:22 -0000 Hello,=0A=0AI hope you're having a great Tuesday so far! I'm just following = up on a note I sent a week or so ago about a investment portfolio I've been = constructing - my head has pretty much been buried in my computer, so I hope= I didn't miss any email response from you=2E I am still searching for good = on-line resources for stock and bond evaluations=2E If you have any referenc= es that you could pass along, I would be thrilled! If not, it's no big deal = at all=2E =0A=0AI also wanted to be sure to pass along a resource that I bel= ieve would be beneficial to your visitors: http://investing=2Eanswers=2Ecom=2E= Investing=2Eanswers=2Ecom is a useful guide that covers a large variety of = investment topics (from interest rates to money markets to trading and more)= =2E=C2=A0When you have time, check it out and consider adding it to your sit= e's resources=2E If you have any questions or feedback, please do not hesita= te to reach out to me=2E =0A=0AOh, and before I forget, the broken link was = http://cbs=2Emarketwatch=2Ecom=2E Thankfully, that tremendous resource is st= ill available, but has been moved (without a redirect) here: http://www=2Ema= rketwatch=2Ecom/=2E I found that broken link on this page of your site: www=2E= cybershade=2Eus/freebsd/www/news/press=2Ehtml=2E =0A=0AHave a great day!=0A=0A= Thanks!=0A=E2=80=A8Nicole=0AAnswers=2Ecom=0A989 Avenue of the Americas, 17th= Floor=0ANew York, NY 10018=0Ahttp://www=2Elinkedin=2Ecom/in/nstoff=0A=0A(Yo= ur e-mail address was found on cybershade=2Eus=2E If you received this e-mai= l in error or you would no longer like to receive e-mails from us about brok= en links on your site please let us know and we will remove you from our e-m= ail address list=2E We do not mean to bother you and are sorry for any incon= veniences we may have caused=2E) From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 20 17:50:45 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: www@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BBD1D26 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:50:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 000001409cd4de84-7d4264e9-9906-486c-be0c-e7f3cd1abd23-000000@amazonses.com) Received: from a8-90.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-90.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F01D2067 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:50:45 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <000001409cd4de84-7d4264e9-9906-486c-be0c-e7f3cd1abd23-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:45:31 +0000 From: "Nicole Stoff" To: www@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Broken Link Reminder X-SES-Outgoing: 2013.08.20-54.240.8.90 X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 17:50:45 -0000 Hello,=0A=0AI hope you're having a great Tuesday so far! I'm just following = up on a note I sent a week or so ago about a investment portfolio I've been = constructing - my head has pretty much been buried in my computer, so I hope= I didn't miss any email response from you=2E I am still searching for good = on-line resources for stock and bond evaluations=2E If you have any referenc= es that you could pass along, I would be thrilled! If not, it's no big deal = at all=2E =0A=0AI also wanted to be sure to pass along a resource that I bel= ieve would be beneficial to your visitors: http://investing=2Eanswers=2Ecom=2E= Investing=2Eanswers=2Ecom is a useful guide that covers a large variety of = investment topics (from interest rates to money markets to trading and more)= =2E=C2=A0When you have time, check it out and consider adding it to your sit= e's resources=2E If you have any questions or feedback, please do not hesita= te to reach out to me=2E =0A=0AOh, and before I forget, the broken link was = http://cbs=2Emarketwatch=2Ecom=2E Thankfully, that tremendous resource is st= ill available, but has been moved (without a redirect) here: http://www=2Ema= rketwatch=2Ecom/=2E I found that broken link on this page of your site: www=2E= freebsd=2Efree=2Eorg//es/news/press=2Ehtml=2E =0A=0AHave a great day!=0A=0AT= hanks!=0A=E2=80=A8Nicole=0AAnswers=2Ecom=0A989 Avenue of the Americas, 17th = Floor=0ANew York, NY 10018=0Ahttp://www=2Elinkedin=2Ecom/in/nstoff=0A=0A(You= r e-mail address was found on free=2Eorg=2E If you received this e-mail in e= rror or you would no longer like to receive e-mails from us about broken lin= ks on your site please let us know and we will remove you from our e-mail ad= dress list=2E We do not mean to bother you and are sorry for any inconvenien= ces we may have caused=2E) From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 20 21:16:09 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC3C94F; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:16:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gabor@FreeBSD.org) Received: from server.mypc.hu (server.mypc.hu [87.229.73.95]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 615902DA2; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:16:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server.mypc.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by server.mypc.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3810D14D2431; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 23:16:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at !change-mydomain-variable!.example.com Received: from server.mypc.hu ([127.0.0.1]) by server.mypc.hu (server.mypc.hu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 9JBJY0yZ2iVN; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 23:15:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (54034B4D.catv.pool.telekom.hu [84.3.75.77]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by server.mypc.hu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7CC3C14D2410; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 23:15:54 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5213DC89.9060408@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 23:15:53 +0200 From: Gabor Kovesdan User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:23.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/23.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warren Block , Gabor Pali Subject: Re: Updating translation workflow References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "doc@FreeBSD.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:16:09 -0000 Em 20-08-2013 19:10, Warren Block escreveu: > On Tue, 20 Aug 2013, Gabor Pali wrote: > >> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Warren Block >> wrote: >>> Well, yes, but this appears to be manual and does not automatically >>> translate the same strings that are found in other documents. That >>> is part >>> of what the newer automated systems do. >> >> Erm, I am a bit skeptic about this as nouns (and expressions) in >> Hungarian may be conjugated; inserting them into a sentence would >> require one to understand the original context of the word -- that is, >> if some automated system could translate those words in case of such a >> language, no humans would be required any more at all... :-) > > I would think translations of larger strings ("This is an example of a > FreeBSD system") would override translations of smaller strings > ("FreeBSD"). > > But it's not clear, and a test would help. Certainly it can be made > to work. Other large projects are using these systems, with a lot of > content translated. Because of the translation database, rewrites or > massive edits would force the translators to start over. I've worked with Trados before (commercial CAT software) and there you can set up a match percentage limit. If the limit is met, you are offered the translation of the matching text but you are able to edit it. From the translations you write a dictionary file is created, which stores earlier translations, so as you progress, there is always a wider basis of translations to search for matches. I think using similar methods in FreeBSD would be very practical if we can find proper open source CAT tools. I agree with Warren that we should improve our workflow since it is really outdated. As for expanding the entities, I'm concerned that we may loose functionality so I'd prefer just handling entity references as plain text there and translating them in the entity files or something similar. Gabor From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 20 21:43:09 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35647CC7; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:43:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF51A2F02; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:43:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r7KLh7Zp099809; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:43:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) with ESMTP id r7KLh70n099806; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:43:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:43:07 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Gabor Kovesdan Subject: Re: Updating translation workflow In-Reply-To: <5213DC89.9060408@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: References: <5213DC89.9060408@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:43:07 -0600 (MDT) Cc: Gabor Pali , "doc@FreeBSD.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:43:09 -0000 On Tue, 20 Aug 2013, Gabor Kovesdan wrote: > Em 20-08-2013 19:10, Warren Block escreveu: >> On Tue, 20 Aug 2013, Gabor Pali wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Warren Block wrote: >>>> Well, yes, but this appears to be manual and does not automatically >>>> translate the same strings that are found in other documents. That is >>>> part >>>> of what the newer automated systems do. >>> >>> Erm, I am a bit skeptic about this as nouns (and expressions) in >>> Hungarian may be conjugated; inserting them into a sentence would >>> require one to understand the original context of the word -- that is, >>> if some automated system could translate those words in case of such a >>> language, no humans would be required any more at all... :-) >> >> I would think translations of larger strings ("This is an example of a >> FreeBSD system") would override translations of smaller strings >> ("FreeBSD"). >> >> But it's not clear, and a test would help. Certainly it can be made to >> work. Other large projects are using these systems, with a lot of content >> translated. Because of the translation database, rewrites or massive edits >> would force the translators to start over. > I've worked with Trados before (commercial CAT software) and there you can > set up a match percentage limit. If the limit is met, you are offered the > translation of the matching text but you are able to edit it. From the > translations you write a dictionary file is created, which stores earlier > translations, so as you progress, there is always a wider basis of > translations to search for matches. I think using similar methods in FreeBSD > would be very practical if we can find proper open source CAT tools. As I understand it (imagine it, really), this is how Pootle works. > I agree with Warren that we should improve our workflow since it is > really outdated. As for expanding the entities, I'm concerned that we > may loose functionality so I'd prefer just handling entity references > as plain text there and translating them in the entity files or > something similar. I think you mean expanding not-so-simple entities like &man.ls.1; would lose the functionality of it making a link to the man page. I agree, I was only thinking of simple entities like &os;. If entities were passed through unchanged, the translator would have the freedom to leave them unchanged or convert them to plain text if needed. But this means we need some other change to itstool, which currently chokes on entities. The older xml2po has an option to keep entities: xml2po -k article.xml From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 20 22:13:43 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F959545; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 22:13:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gabor@FreeBSD.org) Received: from server.mypc.hu (server.mypc.hu [87.229.73.95]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9E7320C3; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 22:13:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server.mypc.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by server.mypc.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B80914D2431; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 00:13:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at !change-mydomain-variable!.example.com Received: from server.mypc.hu ([127.0.0.1]) by server.mypc.hu (server.mypc.hu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id CDImtG_owyig; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 00:13:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (54034B4D.catv.pool.telekom.hu [84.3.75.77]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by server.mypc.hu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3BC7614D2410; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 00:13:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5213EA10.1030500@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 00:13:36 +0200 From: Gabor Kovesdan User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:23.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/23.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warren Block Subject: Re: Updating translation workflow References: <5213DC89.9060408@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gabor Pali , "doc@FreeBSD.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 22:13:43 -0000 Em 20-08-2013 23:43, Warren Block escreveu: > I think you mean expanding not-so-simple entities like &man.ls.1; > would lose the functionality of it making a link to the man page. I > agree, I was only thinking of simple entities like &os;. No, that wouldn't break the links since the markup that generates the link is part of the entity. But entities are like variables, changing the definition will change all occurrences and this is sometimes useful. For example with those entities that are referring to the current release number of the ports count, etc. Gabor From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 20 22:39:39 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F77AAEA; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 22:39:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pali.gabor@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oa0-x234.google.com (mail-oa0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0AE7121D7; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 22:39:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id n12so2099719oag.11 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:39:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=eEVF95zuH12M2q2qaS/KxOcGwKkpUZXjFVfGFqP6k98=; b=Ie4nJ0pAAolb/AHedDCS8osDdMX0nWfle60QXle3S2Rm0Mb0LIOtMUClnjeGAd+Z98 VLvsanO5mP5f0nMFeO7KQ8AMPiSpz/0MpxdNRMdrFy3bNQ5MmpFMO1EwrL4zkFMwg5gJ gKQZMMGffTrMNCpBtw/1yUKiQT/oGM4sIePTcXDX8RmAO4fNlngaGYs4u2xOyrYsdbx4 HxGO/iFHWhTeqs+7rYUmlCe1G/RfXHlVJ4GoEVOLAMCgYTVhK5fQn/IVCWp/2m5+H8Y6 ZhGtnqfhsA03drC5V8tGV73LNjERMcwSKyhDaHco3ahPW2aNJ9n5nKFf4Oj0iCHh+Aup FBQQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.44.240 with SMTP id h16mr4465787oem.2.1377038377730; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Sender: pali.gabor@gmail.com Received: by 10.182.32.101 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:39:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5213DC89.9060408@FreeBSD.org> References: <5213DC89.9060408@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 23:39:37 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: f1TIOOs7TPyRUOBbehRFIh_mvZI Message-ID: Subject: Re: Updating translation workflow From: Gabor Pali To: Gabor Kovesdan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "doc@FreeBSD.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 22:39:39 -0000 On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Gabor Kovesdan wrote: > I've worked with Trados before (commercial CAT software) [..] I think using similar method > in FreeBSD would be very practical if we can find proper open source CAT tools. I agree > with Warren that we should improve our workflow since it is really outdated. Aw, thanks for the hint -- now I see what Warren was talking about. I have to admit that I have never heard (or taken advantage) of such software before; I had the naive impression that my "built-in hardware" translation memory [1] is good enough to not to require that. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_memory From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 21 01:54:41 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08C09A79 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 01:54:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ganbold@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-x229.google.com (mail-pb0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D51962BB4 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 01:54:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pb0-f41.google.com with SMTP id rp2so1119594pbb.28 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 18:54:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=aGYh4MQGJTZWYNRHXBYH9P5fAts5+6A7Sh7S7djTVSg=; b=ML0BK+R2n54rxffrHdrj/zxIAsyEnfwnydoDCad8XFqP1cmh2BQGzjP/3NVsmujEYR RbDQnX9/PWMNOn4izBAY0IMxpurA9EsNkacg6jJH1MRwQxs7VEpL5ZMDnCpa0QLluS07 nFELkqFID1zhxxV9J1n1AOzs0TjlBNvPswQOHOWyouUuZNX3RLYXjRkYTQuwSlCGxFvx uD5s/gfTYBsRHAzf4AlxTlc+V0nIw5pKGTLpx85Cn82Zn+2FxUk0bBaOJ6/RSCVU3snJ 5Y6nswXVRU7oGuXMUSrMjft3FwhKyIY4HLj9LnxWho/cpdbxx/TIu+Qi87lM2r+SSGmk 4U8g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.143.199 with SMTP id sg7mr5190710pbb.13.1377050080533; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 18:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.88.129 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 18:54:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:54:40 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Updating translation workflow From: Ganbold Tsagaankhuu To: Warren Block Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: doc@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 01:54:41 -0000 On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:07 AM, Warren Block wrote: > We have some problems with our translation workflow, and updating it could > make life easier for everyone. Note that as an American, I barely speak > English, so there may be misconceptions in the following. Please correct > me if necessary. > > * Translators work too hard. No automation, no assistance from the > computer to see what needs to be translated, Maybe it depends from language. But translation is usually manual and needs lots of hard work. > no reuse of > previously-translated terms. Because of this, updating translations > after the English version changes can take a long time. > In my case hard part is when English version has lots of small word changes or not so much meaningful word changes like "the" etc. In some cases sentence meaning could be the same as previously translated one. Plus whitespace changes makes me look through every lines. Specially it was case when Dru went through all the chapters of handbook. Big documentation change is mostly hard for translators. > > * Few new translators are willing to work that hard, so we are missing > up-to-date translations to several important world languages. > True. > > * Separating whitespace and content patches makes it more difficult for > writers to edit existing English documents. > Whitespace change with content change is terrible. > > The current workflow, such as it is, is very, very old. Since it was > created, new ways to translate have come about. PC-BSD is using Pootle > (textproc/pootle, http://pootle.translatehouse.**org/) > for their documentation: http://pootle.pcbsd.org/ Just saw it, seems they use .po files similar to gnome etc if I'm not mistaken. But I guess translation of messages or some GUI thing is different than whole sentences like in handbook. > > > I think we can use a combination of tools to work with our existing > documents. The workflow would be like this: > > 1. Use textproc/itstool to create a "strings to be translated" file > (.pot) from an XML file. > > 2. Use pootle as a database to translate any of those strings that have > not already been translated. > > 3. Use itstool to merge the translated strings back into the XML file. > > I'm not quite sure here when we are putting back strings I guess we have to check again the meaning of the sentence. > 4. Build the translated document (DocBook or XHTML) as normal. > > The first difficulty I've found is that itstool does not like entities. It > could be modified to accept them, but probably the more correct procedure > for translations is to expand them before using itstool. This would be > more correct for translations, as it's been explained to me, because some > languages modify nouns depending on how they are used. (In other words, > our use of entities can be English-centric.) > > Is there an easy way to expand entities? > What if we can have some rules for English documentation change? For instance maybe limitation of changes in doc for one commit per day etc. I know English version needs to be updated very frequently and always needs modifications, improvements etc. However if we can have some limitation of changes (I mean small changes like maybe couple of hundred lines that translators can follow immediately with ease) then it would be much easier for translators and that would maybe help new translators join. Like asking them to work on small changes and review if necessary. And of course automated tools would be nice addition to it. thanks for understanding, Ganbold > ______________________________**_________________ > freebsd-doc@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/**mailman/listinfo/freebsd-doc > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-doc-unsubscribe@**freebsd.org > " > From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 21 13:58:57 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A28F4810 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:58:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E4EB2D90 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:58:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r7LDwtZp006165; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 07:58:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) with ESMTP id r7LDwtbD006162; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 07:58:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 07:58:55 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Ganbold Tsagaankhuu Subject: Re: Updating translation workflow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="3512871622-1094708081-1377093535=:5571" X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 21 Aug 2013 07:58:55 -0600 (MDT) Cc: doc@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:58:57 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --3512871622-1094708081-1377093535=:5571 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > I think we can use a combination of tools to work with our existing documents.  The workflow would be like this: > > 1. Use textproc/itstool to create a "strings to be translated" file >    (.pot) from an XML file. > > 2. Use pootle as a database to translate any of those strings that have >    not already been translated. > > 3. Use itstool to merge the translated strings back into the XML file. > > > I'm not quite sure here when we are putting back strings I guess we have to check again the meaning of the sentence. Examples may help: A German translation of a sentence: http://pootle.pcbsd.org/de/pcbsd/translate.html?unit=461257 Gnome uses the .pot/.po files to translate their documentation. Instructions that are specific to translating documentation as opposed to programs are hard to find. Possibly they don't make that distinction because the process is identical. An example: https://wiki.gnome.org/ReleaseNotes/Translating And a sample of the German .po file for a document: https://l10n.gnome.org/POT/gnome-user-docs.master/docs/gnome-help.master.de.po > What if we can have some rules for English documentation change? > For instance maybe limitation of changes in doc for one commit per day etc. I know English version needs to be updated very frequently and always needs modifications, improvements etc. > However if we can have some limitation of changes (I mean small changes like maybe couple of hundred lines that translators can follow immediately with ease) then it would be much > easier for translators and that would maybe help new translators join. Like asking them to work on small changes and review if necessary. > > And of course automated tools would be nice addition to it. Personally, I'd like to see fewer restrictions and much more automated help for everyone. With the .pot/.po system, whitespace changes seem to no longer be a problem. The web interface makes it much easier to get involved with translation, less intimidating for new translators and less work for experienced translators. Also, there are many people with experience using that translation system, so there's less of a learning curve. It could provide helpful experience if FreeBSD translators signed up for an account on the PC-BSD Pootle site and tried translating a few things there. And there may be other CAT software that we could use. Pootle is just a first possibility because PC-BSD is using it. It may even be possible to share the "translation memory" between PC-BSD and FreeBSD, reducing the effort to get documents translated. --3512871622-1094708081-1377093535=:5571-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 22 07:45:44 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0AC24F for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 07:45:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from martinhoover6@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-x248.google.com (mail-ob0-x248.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::248]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DCD525DA for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 07:45:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f200.google.com with SMTP id wd6so5154961obb.11 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 00:45:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: 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IHNlbmQgeW91IGxpbmtzIHRvIHByaWNlICANCmxpc3QsIG1vbmV5IGJhY2sgZ3VhcmFudGVlLCBj bGllbnQgcmFua2luZ3MsIGNsaWVudCB0ZXN0aW1vbmlhbHMsIJNIb3cgd2UgIA0KYXJlIGRpZmZl cmVudCBmcm9tIG90aGVycz+ULCBhbmQgk1doeSBzaG91bGQgeW91IGNob29zZSB1cz+UIG9uIHJl Y2VpdmluZyBhICANCnJlc3BvbnNlIGZyb20geW91Ljwvc3Bhbj4NCjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0K From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 22 10:26:56 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 587204F0 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 10:26:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dannyrahman@sudantoday.biz) Received: from server.bbonlineuk.net (server.bbonlineuk.net [185.24.233.145]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC24202F for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 10:26:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from WIN-E6N7F8P9HH0.interserver.net (WIN-E6N7F8P9HH0 [192.64.83.151]) by server.bbonlineuk.net with SMTP; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 10:54:54 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: Mail message body Subject: Mail From Daniel! To: doc@FreeBSD.org From: dannyrahman@sudantoday.biz Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 05:54:25 -0400 Message-Id: <20130822102656.587204F0@hub.freebsd.org> X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: dan@sudantoday.biz List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 10:26:56 -0000 I am Daniel Rahman from South Sudan and would like to invest the sum of US$= 50 Million in your Country.Please contact me on dan@sudantoday.biz for more= details. From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 22 12:43:32 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 637C8C6B for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 12:43:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18FB42A3E for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 12:43:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r7MChUs0016657 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 06:43:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) with ESMTP id r7MChUbp016654 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 06:43:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 06:43:30 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Feedback wanted: wrapping long lines in HTML docs Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 22 Aug 2013 06:43:30 -0600 (MDT) X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 12:43:32 -0000 HTML versions of our documents show long lines in and elements. At present, these lines run right out of the boxes they are in. Some lines are very long. An example in the FDP Primer is 473 characters: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/fdp-primer/xml-primer-elements.html (search for "example.xml:5") We have at least two ways of improving this. Long lines can be treated as they are in the PDF versions: the line is wrapped and an indicator character shows where it has been wrapped. Cut and paste will still copy it as a single line. Advantage: the entire contents of long lines are shown. Disadvantage: readers may misunderstand the wrapping or wrap indicator as literal. Another option is to add "overflow: auto" in the CSS. Scroll bars will be added to the bottom of screen and programlisting elements with long lines. Advantage: long lines are shown without wrapping. Disadvantage: the reader has to scroll to see the hidden part of long lines. Which method should be preferred for HTML documents, and why? From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 23 19:42:38 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: www@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFB707CD for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2013 19:42:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from info@seoworlds.mygbiz.com) Received: from mail-oa0-f79.google.com (mail-oa0-f79.google.com [209.85.219.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8EAF12F7F for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2013 19:42:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f79.google.com with SMTP id n10so29997oag.2 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2013 12:42:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:message-id:date:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=0D4Bgk6WTtTdGejW+fCqqpLo3S4WDPiYpoyXLkyReKc=; b=VuFbNGUAByF5HMv978Cik2nIdG1QB5calfCjD6rULIHDgcBSfABkloCYDsedgSvz3g x5mFyK6RLfQ2fncXZEuFr1PGwCc2+zQJfOHZUiioa+JFRa15mhedSE6YXS3/QIRcGiOO 5kTpo/gkYoi7vpIHHiuNkoJsfM+peMkMDz9NwAntYu451Evgu2uk6MtmTtB+NBZwwth6 FygoKbFS5Lkh4prz2R54b0DhIejeBFPZh3WasaZq0Wle49ZxLJx1I/yQaxjXNpLy0/VR uoCdVC15zxkf+iob4wQGI/C8hyFPuUGFFBKSvDESFIKhpUgdHDHHMR/T9S3SY3JpvnUc DT2g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlOn+pD0JzYlnQmOya1BCseAjEFmYKV2aiYwwszmmzIzv55OtnsR91Mm47/W9iXkKfknvjH MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.207.206 with SMTP id fz14mr719733icb.2.1377284106568; Fri, 23 Aug 2013 11:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20cf30426df6edd05704e4a1f118@google.com> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 18:55:06 +0000 Subject: 1st Ranking on Google. From: Patricia May To: www@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 19:42:38 -0000 PGRpdiBkaXI9Imx0ciI+PHAgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbjowaW4gMGluIDAuMDAwMXB0Ij48c3BhbiAg DQpzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE0cHQ7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6Q2FuZGFyYSxzYW5zLXNlcmlmO2Nv bG9yOnJnYigyMyw1NCw5MykiPkhpLDwvc3Bhbj48c3BhbiAgDQpzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6 QXJpYWwsc2Fucy1zZXJpZiI+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD48cCBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luOjBpbiAwaW4gIA0K MC4wMDAxcHQiPg0KDQo8c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0id2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6cHJlLXdyYXAiPjxzcGFuICAN CnN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTRwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTpDYW5kYXJhLHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7Y29s b3I6cmdiKDIzLDU0LDkzKSI+oDwvc3Bhbj48L3NwYW4+PHNwYW4gIA0Kc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtZmFt 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+0000 (UTC) (envelope-from info@inflectorglobal.biz) Received: from inflectorglobal.biz (inflectorglobal.biz [198.46.157.156]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD349207C for ; Sat, 24 Aug 2013 01:04:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 75-1-102-116.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net (75-1-102-116.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net [75.1.102.116]) by inflectorglobal.biz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C54C70E2F80 for ; Sat, 24 Aug 2013 04:31:55 +0400 (MSD) From: "Dennis Roberts" Subject: Window Radiant Barrier - Webinar To: "doc" MIME-Version: 1.0 Organization: http://www.inflectorglobal.com Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 19:31:35 -0500 Message-Id: <20130824003155.6C54C70E2F80@inflectorglobal.biz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 01:04:25 -0000 =EF=BB=BFA Billion Dollar Company just joined us from the middle east = - droberts43@sbcglobal.net What is an Inflector Window Insulator? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D= 21DiKS5mt4k Join us for a Webinar on September 10 Energy Efficiency Done Right presents information on the In'Flector Se= e Through Radiant Barrier Window and Skylight Insulator and the Energy= Efficiency Industry. We will examine the growth of the energy efficie= ncy, conservation, energy independence, and carbon emmission industrie= s and explain opportunities to represent or purchase our Insulator pro= ducts. Title:IN=E2=80=99FLECTOR-A UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY IN THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY= INDUSTRY Date:Tuesday, September 10, 2013 Time:10:00 AM - 11:00 AM CDT = Space is limited . = Reserve your Webinar se= at now at: = https://www1.gotomeetin= g.com/register/750249112 =20 =20 Unsubscribe by email Keith Roberts 10854 Lake Path San Antonio, TX 78217 Inflector Window Insulators - See Thru Radiant Barrier droberts43@sbcglobal.net This is an advetisement for a webinar!