From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mon Nov 2 14:33:10 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D03AA0249A for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 14:33:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Received: from mail-vk0-x235.google.com (mail-vk0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4967132C for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 14:33:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Received: by vkfw189 with SMTP id w189so85939807vkf.2 for ; Mon, 02 Nov 2015 06:33:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hardenedbsd_org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:organization:user-agent :mime-version:content-type; bh=haN1kI5g3XVb3kyTCt7t0fERCnt1fbEQxlFp0wip9Ts=; b=cx4LJEPlie61zYyKgl8dMs51d24Pr+LIfzOaFH02xzAEmH2Lmtxp7vCnhHZsgZQ82R T98rkBfNyZGr5sFAFTsNP6E1VjoXsO1SZcin+VVF3GMxt34Lqwnr8ukHYr0DcNokLg5E WlbCVdZWPdqVrYMReA+s+QHsw5H8D1LhDRfecvmdT1gw33HjrkWIK+T8ZD2EukYUChz4 yKs9gDGKk8WEfQCqPe0sJVVD1V4BSHMiILPwZi/U/qJJbgJrif6ijCFssAlf50UiaoKW VJDhezx+0+lsg4dkFssMoiHTVjoC6Hq0D3zk21gdXz9j33N2Mg1DnadcxesmdrNXHZEq oBlw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:organization :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=haN1kI5g3XVb3kyTCt7t0fERCnt1fbEQxlFp0wip9Ts=; b=OuwpLbk2DNbxG1nGeiC409P0RIfr1xo9nfS/eKBbH1V0+aXd13233fLstmZZtg8AQN iDeU1pQ2PSNSmrTrgWSEAsGVF/hAuU8D2i495qxQhHHgeoslNNrwfpw9sy1kbMR7c50Z L9NESJnc7NbosfmvDK+mnsjAuoMyAynFQK/AMo35WHreS4QuyBe+V4t3Mrp03yezPADA sb1L5aEtKnFbWoqAAaOz18s+l4g+9v6/6PaFMpnYQrVIuKbZ0kdsRdqysU/sfBJRRDjN gEH43Wyw0K9D02FLABAsuWXCaH6G6ssPBlXZKNVfY+B2rInXbyMiDdaKUeDYbb/JwTxK 3twA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlNfrcrP0SaE6djE1TStDLs5KjSdmvOt3gdd0kjy0wHmHWM+qtX4gitjU1F0c39vhYREVbDeXaAICkcergNu/nvb+5VbZUxHWHNq3QCt0U7HrESW5rO3W8vXnt6Irb9f2On7ma7fmHCp0vFldPIZp5QESPqn/Hje1SNzGroLgCeM++3HgIC8dyJ5OPKB9GyRsU5W47R X-Received: by 10.31.161.146 with SMTP id k140mr15257787vke.90.1446474788946; Mon, 02 Nov 2015 06:33:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from hbsd-dev-laptop.localnet ([129.6.251.181]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j3sm6230110vkd.3.2015.11.02.06.33.08 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 02 Nov 2015 06:33:08 -0800 (PST) From: Shawn Webb To: 'freebsd-arch' Subject: Per-process PS_STRINGS, USRSTACK, shared_obj_base, and sigcode_base Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2015 09:33:01 -0500 Message-ID: <2534498.OFUIiDbxWf@hbsd-dev-laptop> Organization: HardenedBSD User-Agent: KMail/4.14.3 (FreeBSD/11.0-CURRENT-HBSD; KDE/4.14.3; amd64; ; ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart21333580.NfgAIexNHh"; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2015 14:33:10 -0000 --nextPart21333580.NfgAIexNHh Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey All, I've updated this patch to the latest HEAD. This patch is a preparatory= patch=20 for ASLR. It makes it so that PS_STRINGS, USRSTACK, the VDSO, and the s= ignal=20 trampolining code pointers are all stored per-process. Going forward, w= ith=20 HardenedBSD's ASLR patch, these values will be modified to introduce=20= randomness/entropy. The goal with this patch is to allow randomization = of the=20 stack base address and the VDSO. You can find the patch here: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D3565 Thanks, =2D-=20 Shawn Webb HardenedBSD GPG Key ID: 0x6A84658F52456EEE GPG Key Fingerprint: 2ABA B6BD EF6A F486 BE89 3D9E 6A84 658F 5245 6EEE --nextPart21333580.NfgAIexNHh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAABCAAGBQJWN3QeAAoJEGqEZY9SRW7un8kP/A6rtj7gRJ6Lky23tb3woOH+ 83AcsGbLif56imlN8I68tPrQ0NApwMdxz8RCBB+fmc2wI5XH7sxk3CXfoiWtodOp UfrLRRiquGnzjb3ZTHzEagPfdSOWVSJdvLi27MAMfsOcnlyLbgsQahf5BLGyt+8W httJFlauUf2OpAKZZhUTB5rQP7syL6EFbGmU3epXv36I2520kWGmFuXAnXeUjHEo unibRzcaABMKPldbfhFRCOgmp9UDsVHuzr00pVoe/tc+eErM/7WJxnxVEGOWpJMG FYppOPRADYHqIRUCS1WemJ88NhwwEFMZNuRnUdtYGNDO/WmPrfw8vTcJ/WC/kE0J 6EwmTjV/5kftjegi0/zR2/gOFIhWAKHu1oJgH8cziPeIrIXuIuVNTrMe5pG15PWk ZSYB7jzsrhUklzDGjffUkjK9gOq4Xu25+1T8WkuWv+lteRluVu3CGjfmSeXAGTQ3 h0M1jQmiVutnGuy9bcgBwty75Qi9XfkW+4LHWmZc6VCVCU4RJmL2rMMowoPrMI3o ZWhUfO6j0hzsJajLoqpOrAzuCO1zW0BlMeYtOpCRtN/oKyOQoZiyn1HtNFM1ZLvN lPOfyFpdq/56mjKdFN+4mHmWJ04YknelqDh7iQAzyo2yCW1uVnZbTel1uIs7OGMy Q6X1vXOM1ApCV/5KmoLS =diQZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart21333580.NfgAIexNHh-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Nov 3 16:37:49 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D889CA2439A; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:37:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bz@freebsd.org) Received: from mx1.sbone.de (mx1.sbone.de [IPv6:2a01:4f8:130:3ffc::401:25]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mx1.sbone.de", Issuer "SBone.DE" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9468214CF; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:37:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bz@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.sbone.de (mail.sbone.de [IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:587]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.sbone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F3C525D37D1; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:37:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from content-filter.sbone.de (content-filter.sbone.de [IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:2742]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.sbone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D9C1C77009; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:37:37 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at sbone.de Received: from mail.sbone.de ([IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:587]) by content-filter.sbone.de (content-filter.sbone.de [fde9:577b:c1a9:31::2013:2742]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l7kptIzGgbPP; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:37:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:4420:cabc:c8ff:fe8b:4fe6] (orange-tun0-ula.sbone.de [IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:4420:cabc:c8ff:fe8b:4fe6]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.sbone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 17A26C76FEE; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:37:35 +0000 (UTC) From: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Build Options Survey run Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:37:33 +0000 Message-Id: <061AF18B-85D8-4FE7-ABF0-1086D4BC4063@FreeBSD.org> Cc: freebsd-arch To: FreeBSD Current Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:37:49 -0000 Hi, phk had asked me to run a build options survey again. It took about two = weeks to go through all of them. The results are here: https://people.freebsd.org/~bz/build_option_survey_20151017/ There are plans to run it more often again and improve it a bit. No = promises on the actual timeline but it=E2=80=99ll happen. Meanwhile you can go and look at things and improve them ;-) Cheers, Bjoern= From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Nov 3 16:49:16 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46EA5A24829 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:49:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-pa0-x22c.google.com (mail-pa0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 138691DA6 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:49:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: by padhk6 with SMTP id hk6so653447pad.3 for ; Tue, 03 Nov 2015 08:49:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp_com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=03U3NJ4NKql4ytlY//t9VpzZzlfgQWrR3JBQnWj9FfY=; b=GPqbgji4/hh1bK3itt1TF2WOED6xD71kBGcs6dxMdQto9VWzsJC7mg2i5fRheH3YiV eFfMcE/sJEonCa506hQ/ZYEPSAnWFQWT1EyD2u3GIhyUT5PALMdcKU92Ctz/Q69oeleK FMMthvWBhUbsKhhafSjOkx7vC5RXzL2HifNJ0CZcRTCUuFcYTA9nEUGbCVV+pErnUNnK M+041lbqpEJPJzfioqDdW/rRtMPrrahs1ELdDmBwHImQifW5fUCK4dhqYxR9RXVI9PYh C/mph/Woe7en5VpA+9nwCvkkx2NTtmtnCsxMfeDLSqpu63zCYZ2vh2ZaZIA+KOZyHyLz 9hiw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=03U3NJ4NKql4ytlY//t9VpzZzlfgQWrR3JBQnWj9FfY=; b=TRw583/t0EolVLapLGPl1LVguzXFjCANemTyU3L9Cdv78xadCJl1xSoO7MIPW/96M6 mbapO6g0PHLAWZcm+sAlANZRPU5+3ekaMFJxK+1BeL20dZ3ZTKP3TAdHC9cJpwX9xZRr vPjGtSMQBuyUnHcBBSP1M2EjUZxziIOUp27Hqlvhtof6ri6k0234p1EHb9harudDy6wT k4P2Yr0KmsZZB4GORTuRx0KZI5mhKdagzGP0Ia+jmFeJKHvZx+qI+t9rRdqdXsEeOFyT w3jYQ4sBo/ctzPFO8SpQap/VAFQsOKIEtIo7LDkvrY3YD4wodC4qwFT55So3rEtngpeq OqlQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQncIdzWrk1CHq0hifNK+D5nwAYaadJy4sopajTM9VkjBoaXZra0YSGZMLUpE/syNANoJWZT X-Received: by 10.66.236.129 with SMTP id uu1mr24309328pac.63.1446569355563; Tue, 03 Nov 2015 08:49:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.20.1.64] ([40.140.7.61]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ey2sm30390997pbd.77.2015.11.03.08.49.14 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Nov 2015 08:49:14 -0800 (PST) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: Build Options Survey run Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CC74A6C9-66D1-450B-883C-3FB371D3B908"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5.2 From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <061AF18B-85D8-4FE7-ABF0-1086D4BC4063@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 09:49:12 -0700 Cc: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-arch Message-Id: References: <061AF18B-85D8-4FE7-ABF0-1086D4BC4063@FreeBSD.org> To: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:49:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CC74A6C9-66D1-450B-883C-3FB371D3B908 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Nov 3, 2015, at 9:37 AM, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > phk had asked me to run a build options survey again. It took about = two weeks to go through all of them. The results are here: >=20 > https://people.freebsd.org/~bz/build_option_survey_20151017/ >=20 > There are plans to run it more often again and improve it a bit. No = promises on the actual timeline but it=E2=80=99ll happen. >=20 > Meanwhile you can go and look at things and improve them ;-) While not all combinations tested were valid combinations, many that = failed are. Some of them look to be relatively easy to fix, while others = are much harder. Warner --Apple-Mail=_CC74A6C9-66D1-450B-883C-3FB371D3B908 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJWOOWJAAoJEGwc0Sh9sBEATlgQANd72+xcjdHaBouzzREpKnHE 6+D9h/NwI4TtBdbCqhi21JcL28XfHcVnK3wR7BnEz7HalDDDwivLODn/+ovc7tdJ zL8N+IFIKPla9xi8HHAjRXEZr5DV5Nt22u1Sf4UE05wXrGYgRQhasU0mM6WzGObI WiFvFYQYUUHvdeH35Ra8pRznB42ZN3ryy5WFoqxyJsh6odZKAL9ydhvbltRr8Otd +YRdRm4Lx7cUrvAiCmvWCpLujMl0oHHmRs+fsZtEBpGYY68pwwO79+UnMpJxl4Gg tjUjWE33BhiDAtpLkSrMmGidgpGEJ7eKaXEHFtHyXRm8Tk/6MqVBAN90w7UHXmME luQgMI+WoEvAPKwdfLjHMGa6kmJTcKgnyZ4wwDy21YBATVKg3jYCoqR8WLDdgVAr z0uMWpIik0h23eq6+slKvdoAu3/hPBe5GENCBrJUXtCPq5a3tjxlU5fbtdoI83CX /l+yz0lnbQspioo0RYwiJvnbwnJ2YKbHxbFUpcKNWu0hIIXOKlrKm+TmDmwYGmOI CBk0Gh16fWhXtGowOghMbB5H13iRN+G+DVHtK751PV83aJOI1QbXCd7Wngc7sm1a 1ZhoLb/cKmbtbGK+hLkUO21LFhtfzWZD3rqw1PIIpeXfJNG2JWwPEZa10hSmbRDw irSUgrDm5Aj/W/NqONnG =CqY/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_CC74A6C9-66D1-450B-883C-3FB371D3B908-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Nov 3 21:24:53 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00EEA242AC; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 21:24:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A79C1EDC; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 21:24:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41E554F418; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 21:24:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id tA3LOjMv088963; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 21:24:45 GMT (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: Warner Losh cc: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" , FreeBSD Current , freebsd-arch Subject: Re: Build Options Survey run In-reply-to: From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <061AF18B-85D8-4FE7-ABF0-1086D4BC4063@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <88961.1446585885.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 21:24:45 +0000 Message-ID: <88962.1446585885@critter.freebsd.dk> X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 21:24:53 -0000 -------- In message , Warner Losh = writes: >> phk had asked me to run a build options survey again. It took about = >two weeks to go through all of them. The results are here: Many thanks! >> There are plans to run it more often again and improve it a bit. No = >promises on the actual timeline but it'll happen. It's actually a good beginner task if anybody wants to do something for the project which requires just a machine and some shell programming. My old script can be improved in a lot of ways, the most productive would probably be to make it incremental rather than one big batch job. (Something like: Test any options for which there are no results, otherwise retest the option with the oldest result.) >While not all combinations tested were valid combinations, many that = >failed are. Some of them look to be relatively easy to fix, while others = >are much harder. If one _really_ wanted to burn CPU cycles, my testing years back revealed many combinations where options are incompatible. (NB: Today we have almo= st four times as many options as then and we're into N! territory here...) -- = Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe = Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence= . From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 4 02:41:02 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34E9AA250A7; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 02:41:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DCE51C87; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 02:41:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from Julian-MBP3.local (ppp121-45-229-78.lns20.per1.internode.on.net [121.45.229.78]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id tA42eoMe044899 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Nov 2015 18:40:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Subject: Re: Build Options Survey run To: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" , FreeBSD Current References: <061AF18B-85D8-4FE7-ABF0-1086D4BC4063@FreeBSD.org> Cc: freebsd-arch From: Julian Elischer Message-ID: <5639702C.7000703@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 10:40:44 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <061AF18B-85D8-4FE7-ABF0-1086D4BC4063@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 02:41:02 -0000 Can you put the MK_FOO column at the end so it doesn't push everything else off the Right hand side of the screen? On 11/4/15 12:37 AM, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: > Hi, > > phk had asked me to run a build options survey again. It took about two weeks to go through all of them. The results are here: > > https://people.freebsd.org/~bz/build_option_survey_20151017/ > > There are plans to run it more often again and improve it a bit. No promises on the actual timeline but it’ll happen. > > Meanwhile you can go and look at things and improve them ;-) > > Cheers, > Bjoern > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 4 19:12:32 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1690A20993 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 19:12:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sbruno@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.ignoranthack.me (ignoranthack.me [199.102.79.106]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5AA0164D for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 19:12:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sbruno@freebsd.org) Received: from [172.23.13.207] (unknown [216.221.230.44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: sbruno@ignoranthack.me) by mail.ignoranthack.me (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D61081934F2 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 19:12:24 +0000 (UTC) From: Sean Bruno Subject: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Reply-To: sbruno@freebsd.org To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 11:12:19 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 19:12:32 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 So here's the thing, Sparc64 is *just* barely alive in FreeBSD. There is exactly 1 Sparc64 machine as a ref box being hosted at Yahoo for the project. No new hardware is on the horizon. None of the newer Sparc64 processors have been tested to work on FreeBSD and nobody is clamoring to get them working. We're moving into a post-gcc base system now, and sparc64 is the obvious "odd arch" here. There's activity to get MIPS moved to clang and active work to get powerpc moved fully to clang. Leaving Sparc64 in base, requires someone to either make clang DTRT or keep gcc 4.2.1-ish alive. I have asked around for help getting the Sparc64 qemu-bsd-user binary working so I could at a minimum build packages, and I have gotten no feedback from folks. So the only option here is to resurrect sparc64 machines somewhere and start up builds on real hardware. Let's just call it what it is, a dead end of the technology tree. I move that we do NOT produce 11.0 versions for Sparc64 and it should be dropped from the tree. sean -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQF8BAEBCgBmBQJWOliTXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRCQUFENDYzMkU3MTIxREU4RDIwOTk3REQx MjAxRUZDQTFFNzI3RTY0AAoJEBIB78oecn5k++0IAJjJpBm4vilEXwb38Hfo9zF+ tnGIqkWlMI1+t6t637BD4YvQSumbDFKh7oVflY4ohODhlHVLFQyzlnchgu7M2GBw wLrfMs5FvgS579LFHYah1PZt2WDlvgP4I0inyVh+altbREaxMfQQM/j7Bws+6hH/ RJiTdhM30kMMEf7KhzPihpuyrB6YxaL3F1hbzoA9X22liBLgPi3eb9GoJDUJXsdK MZ1mn/2Hs3gvK6ONoOLpbEpPfaPk1pujEWjmag1WgR5D0bLT7WzG26wOB+63fsdF f3gPV9ytbcXced+7cvW9u3By5PBLcD+kilQO+Ozimmtth2GM2e9GQTCjDf74wSI= =pZHk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 4 19:20:33 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E912A20BAE for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 19:20:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ed@nuxi.nl) Received: from mail-yk0-x235.google.com (mail-yk0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 537801A2C for ; 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Wed, 04 Nov 2015 11:20:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.129.105.86 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 11:20:32 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [84.27.222.46] In-Reply-To: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 20:20:32 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 From: Ed Schouten To: sbruno@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 19:20:33 -0000 2015-11-04 20:12 GMT+01:00 Sean Bruno : > I move that we do NOT produce 11.0 versions for Sparc64 and it should be > dropped from the tree. +1 If people object strongly against this and we do end up releasing 11.0 with sparc64 support, I would propose that we axe it from HEAD not long after branching. -- Ed Schouten Nuxi, 's-Hertogenbosch, the Netherlands KvK-nr.: 62051717 From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 4 19:28:35 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0838DA20D71 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 19:28:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vangyzen@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.vangyzen.net (hotblack.vangyzen.net [199.48.133.146]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E49F61EC4; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 19:28:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vangyzen@FreeBSD.org) Received: from marvin.beer.town (unknown [76.164.8.130]) by smtp.vangyzen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 02953564B1; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 13:28:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 To: sbruno@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> From: Eric van Gyzen Message-ID: <563A5C58.1030304@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 13:28:24 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 19:28:35 -0000 On 11/04/2015 13:12, Sean Bruno wrote: > I move that we do NOT produce 11.0 versions for Sparc64 and it should be > dropped from the tree. You might post on freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org to bring this thread to the attention of the most interested people. Eric From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 4 21:51:40 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A54FA2612F for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 21:51:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [66.135.54.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 268B11FE6; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 21:51:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id A77F956083; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 15:51:38 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 15:51:38 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Sean Bruno Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Message-ID: <20151104215138.GA32567@lonesome.com> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 21:51:40 -0000 If the Foundation, or someone, will host hardware, I can ship hardware. I am sitting on a pile of it here and can get more. It is now available inexpensively. The last I heard the Foundation was not interested in accepting any more used machines so I stopped pursuing it. I have been building sparc64 packages since early this summer. They are in ... decent .. shape. The currently online machine is 2 x 1.5GHz 16GB. Not thrilling but usable. Most ports build. I'm willing to spend time working on ports if people want. People have to decide what they want, however. mcl From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 4 21:56:58 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B5BA2621B; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 21:56:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vps.rulingia.com (vps.rulingia.com [103.243.244.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vps.rulingia.com", Issuer "CAcert Class 3 Root" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55DF111AC; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 21:56:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from server.rulingia.com (c220-239-242-83.belrs5.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.242.83]) by vps.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id tA4LiwQV080950 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:45:06 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id tA4Liqs8021888 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:44:52 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id tA4Lip4Y021887; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:44:51 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:44:51 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Sean Bruno Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Message-ID: <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="1LKvkjL3sHcu1TtY" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded STARTTLS authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (vps.rulingia.com [103.243.244.15]); Thu, 05 Nov 2015 08:45:06 +1100 (AEDT) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 21:56:58 -0000 --1LKvkjL3sHcu1TtY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [Adding sparc64] On 2015-Nov-04 11:12:19 -0800, Sean Bruno wrote: >So here's the thing, Sparc64 is *just* barely alive in FreeBSD. > >There is exactly 1 Sparc64 machine as a ref box being hosted at Yahoo >for the project. No new hardware is on the horizon. None of the newer >Sparc64 processors have been tested to work on FreeBSD and nobody is >clamoring to get them working. > >We're moving into a post-gcc base system now, and sparc64 is the obvious >"odd arch" here. There's activity to get MIPS moved to clang and active >work to get powerpc moved fully to clang. Leaving Sparc64 in base, >requires someone to either make clang DTRT or keep gcc 4.2.1-ish alive. I don't think the latter is an option. Doing so means that the entire machine-independent codebase needs to be compilable with gcc 4.2.1, blocking the use of any new feature. IMHO, this should be around the other way: FreeBSD 11.x will require all supported architectures to be buildable with clang. http://llvm.org/releases/3.5.0/docs/ReleaseNotes.html states that clang can self-host on FreeBSD/Sparc64 so this doesn't seem an unreasonable requirement. >I have asked around for help getting the Sparc64 qemu-bsd-user binary >working so I could at a minimum build packages, and I have gotten no >feedback from folks. So the only option here is to resurrect sparc64 >machines somewhere and start up builds on real hardware. > >Let's just call it what it is, a dead end of the technology tree. >I move that we do NOT produce 11.0 versions for Sparc64 and it should be >dropped from the tree. I agree. Even if the compiler issues are resolved, there doesn't appear to be the critical mass within the Project to keep the architecture alive. I also feel that no 11.0 FreeBSD/sparc64 makes much more sense than axing support just after 11.0 - if we release 11.0 on sparc64, we are pretty much committed to supporting sparc64 for the life of the 11.x branch and supporting an orphaned architechure for that long is going to be extremely painful. OTOH, I feel it's reasonable for the code to not be axed until after 11.0 in case there's a sufficient groundswell of support to reverse the deprecation decision. Taking the FreeBSD/alpha deprecation as a precedent, deprecation was officially announced in May 2006: https://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=3D14637+0+archive/2006/freebs= d-alpha/20060514.freebsd-alpha with the website updated a couple of months later: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/doc/head/en_US.ISO8859-1/htdocs/platforms/alpha.= xml?revision=3D28282 and the family tree shows: FreeBSD 6.0 2005-11-01 [FBD] FreeBSD 6.1 2006-05-08 [FBD] FreeBSD 5.5 2006-05-25 [FBD] FreeBSD 6.2 2007-01-15 [FBD] FreeBSD 6.3 2008-01-18 [FBD] FreeBSD 7.0 2008-02-27 [FBD] --=20 Peter Jeremy --1LKvkjL3sHcu1TtY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJWOnxSXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFRUIyOTg2QzMwNjcxRTc0RTY1QzIyN0Ux NkE1OTdBMEU0QTIwQjM0AAoJEBall6Dkogs0ueIP/jceAT5/48pkBAdTI8HIAYHD CouCFuNJG7j0Wk5PI9RKVYBacu3dYOhubk6XbRe1jEGtq38skOzdYmZp8eWdXr0b iulDBuDw5WUq4okkuXnP3REUuorbKef+4vvSWXa3yPg2+Q7I9uF+BhjCR736vniW kzZAnRg25OtE3Duqs7lMmPY94lx0NkEPc1QAUhwDLJmLrb77zJtz9VRyeZ3c6+Lc /GB7lE3ouc3DtIqot72k9dnOWDUaNx2+QNwQiHyhtiC8Jzm1SVvCq5QXDB17vruy JvmdCCM8moTfcABJN+pjwDm+pvIYe97N72eyk4Udn5umYQHgJHzgEzAlcZJ500Yw L/OA6vrGM4paJxVdSP2IQa5a5TVz3IEFhnm+a51BD7JS7LZmIxEJuZL9GBxEYZa/ PVPLdaJNGyIBmG4kxcP+/Plwu3gYL2ZN2GvoMq+bEy+Yb+PAljSegugcsY2mMY0+ BK5WBd/D0g47Bw4U4KatwDoO0V/We9m1JCFd1eNNblsLnSuomkSs+ngMkofeLSa+ e4OkbKaJ8cO8/bVyqVbeOWJ071E+t8ksZDIPtFf51uU0A+0xEB/TJBXfphzC/Sph i7sJ+M6rNWiVerXTGdEKK7JFjgbcrpXBdoP9450pPeslVdwpTShZzRmQfyH5RK5O 5S2OaNK+Ko0Chrnaj4nQ =0Yyn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1LKvkjL3sHcu1TtY-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 4 22:13:30 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C29A264BF; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 22:13:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ig0-x22c.google.com (mail-ig0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCE18198E; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 22:13:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by igdg1 with SMTP id g1so116583657igd.1; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 14:13:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=S3lOD38R2JQcJpR7AxQU3DR8u7eEu9c8G6hIBB4s1lw=; b=CNqMHK7HV3JDAB+uWhuS/GaB4x3mPFNkzVouE6p1y/WpwAJvKDgxO4mt4dM77+97Ug /TEYgA5o3yuV0gDgSzdYkSZENmfYf186kp95p/uh7wn13ZCohQHU2ELWdmDydybGiJ5V mpB3zPrzgDueDpQzRfuxDLE1xJJlUxbV+4Ks1u1nE7HEIhPEQ8KwmY1udyFUdfS9KBa/ brFr/p2Zp0nmrDUvsmL2qBxIhSQ5J4ZQDlk9YQk2K0yn9/Mce+HByjvuFMoCRki8oFTH FsnQ8/XA0kIJjkrHS210ydbj+Wa3M2lu6eWr7PCuhV0tC70AN5XRlrGtrvTZyOdXspKj gokA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.164.196 with SMTP id ys4mr6285616igb.37.1446675209260; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 14:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.46.66 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 14:13:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 14:13:29 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 From: Adrian Chadd To: Peter Jeremy Cc: Sean Bruno , freebsd-sparc64 , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 22:13:30 -0000 We don't have to expect clang support to work. Just having someone champion the external toolchain stuff and getting sparc64 world/kernel/release building from say, sparc64-gcc 5.x would be enough. The hardware support and such is a separate problem. I'd just like someone there to bite the bullet and push through external toolchain support for sparc64 and removing the use of gcc-4.2 there. -a From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 4 23:19:41 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F3C8A26F31 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 23:19:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io0-x22e.google.com (mail-io0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECA1214EF for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 23:19:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: by iodd200 with SMTP id d200so71631414iod.0 for ; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 15:19:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp_com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=/9HVPxSHKGec3nGqyOyB2Oxd3KaWtCXswEYenxgVKf0=; b=g9TM1Y3SHsrpVbXizJSD9aRA9k6buFMcHafFVnSYfXFC+gempQvYK/mgzGXExRpnQ/ RD3m26twn3YZVg1nmwc8Our2ta4yzofzAub7dz5wiXMz3d+iKU/5VeUppmndIEp8hLB9 /YQlS+PGzmkmlbljiGzbnpm/X+nNzE8mvNYaZQQ49qpsHYXme98JjpUMexiCFAA0RYMN JNdLR57NqYnSH/vnG2W25QJWV9TJwQth9xNtSNCEb5OypzyOoEHdl09YpZM+Wx3Qo0Bg FMAZosjMXApzlUGQxJ0gqsN2Sp1jx0Mppt6D+xrTPaVgouCP87WE1wcMo71iPDk1VGx7 1vDQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=/9HVPxSHKGec3nGqyOyB2Oxd3KaWtCXswEYenxgVKf0=; b=IlBVryTTj1huBAgVhTVf/yduxf+gpOcWWqy0VWyrvkUbAEyP/spBLyTyif1SqvOyNi giLZNrigUnbeh5ErIE86vGpc9qPIYJg8RqNZqo10zITSnR13h7j3N6st+As9pT/V3otw VleJxu8iAa5JWMu+U8YQb1eCm2XOdfgF+GqhVgvr5VEA8SFXm5UY74/W+EY3RFLsVFTK hdEu0x55Rj9Kj9FyP2MvSCIJmFQvxXPFEVoGiq3P6SF9QCrWpCUKj11savcYhvkErYQo FXVAqtZ5AK/PdqLaEGz3z9ibgccbx6Nwlh5Thn577E9xXw5z0/C5Q1Bw0Xq5DDuOgKeU UZmw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlQSi/xCJKKW7RjAQRJkH1J6smWSYvkWsgN6XhvLKrhXIrxxHzE7jqJXFiMTiOWFG195WbT X-Received: by 10.107.3.156 with SMTP id e28mr6224755ioi.151.1446679180227; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 15:19:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:280:4900:3700:29a6:4f8b:9d1e:db60? ([2601:280:4900:3700:29a6:4f8b:9d1e:db60]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e1sm1845300igx.6.2015.11.04.15.19.39 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Nov 2015 15:19:39 -0800 (PST) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_071B735E-D487-40A2-8A8A-BCF511C133D2"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5.2 From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 16:19:38 -0700 Cc: freebsd-arch , Marius Strobl Message-Id: <2AAC0EF3-528B-476F-BA9C-CDC3004465D0@bsdimp.com> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> To: sbruno@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 23:19:41 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_071B735E-D487-40A2-8A8A-BCF511C133D2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Nov 4, 2015, at 12:12 PM, Sean Bruno wrote: >=20 > So here's the thing, Sparc64 is *just* barely alive in FreeBSD. Has anybody actually booted it off a newish tree? > There is exactly 1 Sparc64 machine as a ref box being hosted at Yahoo > for the project. No new hardware is on the horizon. None of the = newer > Sparc64 processors have been tested to work on FreeBSD and nobody is > clamoring to get them working. >=20 > We're moving into a post-gcc base system now, and sparc64 is the = obvious > "odd arch" here. There's activity to get MIPS moved to clang and = active > work to get powerpc moved fully to clang. Leaving Sparc64 in base, > requires someone to either make clang DTRT or keep gcc 4.2.1-ish = alive. There was some work to get clang to do the right thing for sparc64. Last I heard, the tree compiles with it. It didn=E2=80=99t boot, but at the = time gcc-compiled kernels didn=E2=80=99t boot either. I=E2=80=99m not sure how this status = has moved through time. It would be best to ask Marius Strobl, since he=E2=80=99s the only one = committing to sparc64 sub-tree lately non-global-sweep cleanups. Here=E2=80=99s a breakdown of commits in different parts of sys. The = =E2=80=98Marius=E2=80=99 column is for commits Marius has made in sparc64 only. The rest are the = different architectures we currently support. I wrote this with mail.app, so = formatting may be dicy. Year Marius sparc64 mips arm powerpc i386 = amd64 x86 arm64 2015 5 32 164 445 = 144 168 247 109 168 2014 0 39 117 672 = 98 125 296 108 - 2013 14 65 235 455 = 217 142 235 67 - 2012 24 55 272 343 = 152 188 221 76 - 2011 78 131 205 105 = 172 189 182 56 - 2010 75 127 501 103 = 211 274 268 75 - 2009 58 95 269 193 = 137 293 258 - - 2008 65 109 65 167 = 161 304 222 - - sparc64 rate of change has fallen way off since 2011, both in terms of = the number of commits, as well as the share of commits relative to other platforms. While I know that not all commits are treated equally, and = that different commit styles in different parts of the tree may skew things, > I have asked around for help getting the Sparc64 qemu-bsd-user binary > working so I could at a minimum build packages, and I have gotten no > feedback from folks. So the only option here is to resurrect sparc64 > machines somewhere and start up builds on real hardware. >=20 > Let's just call it what it is, a dead end of the technology tree. > I move that we do NOT produce 11.0 versions for Sparc64 and it should = be > dropped from the tree. I concur. I think sparc64 has had a nice run, but it=E2=80=99s time to = recognize that the run is nearing its end. Warner --Apple-Mail=_071B735E-D487-40A2-8A8A-BCF511C133D2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJWOpKKAAoJEGwc0Sh9sBEAmhoP/jvcXoTIaEszn0SPY1Gnpdv9 qF10AeXoWD8qIbFCfTYmH6eryUEFaIFIwj1hU0YeJz1yiktKKu3bGcnBUY6stBoo htukrNAtcn8Zs4BB7fY8R6YPkmE1OD3xV7Wed/oESDoiZfMW+/hhL2KvRXugh/xJ u0m+llcvLyScqqDbBXRgdCtkdg5yqJtHO2fdyHqGCxR3IIcUn/+yWeiHwGMlrwXZ 8vup5E5mdCmadhje26zs+lnl45G7so+NOATACQ+e1Jsk6cukApwu5lu88BDvE5JR EyRO4FEzBtjsE63/U/bZeqjKyKE6rocBst/NerlpeJtFuFgeVrCbvPdw4jVDOV92 jcsqaCveyzKJ6RaAr4SKekddsIOa/feTfoA4wlooupp0bErcCWQ5DmVHCD1bH39Q 5NDXzMb6lrN3A94NrcjCOGlv60x75CxUidqh2aQkyaMpL9Lw53m/nG+DSOk3lC5z 2MqAH3YTxqOsXsEaHld3CNdfwedcp2uDyEw0M9MHk/ZRi8UpNxLDWUY52U0XXiBf LF/ys46v0Wm3cvnX3YhXfXZ4KhVCKSf7l5nakGpfd2hsylfVhY++lb66EWFonO8G Nnn4pZCOgVeMUvQ0r+p2FNC+gDnLnSj8AQYNdO1k8dTIA7L75Si92VSkRFwiQasZ 7Cg9fM9sGAAwJiTo4Ir7 =YGxQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_071B735E-D487-40A2-8A8A-BCF511C133D2-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 4 23:33:49 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02EAFA2626C for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 23:33:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBB7A1DDD; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 23:33:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 074314F418; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 23:26:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id tA4NQnvm093594; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 23:26:49 GMT (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: Warner Losh cc: sbruno@freebsd.org, Marius Strobl , freebsd-arch Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 In-reply-to: <2AAC0EF3-528B-476F-BA9C-CDC3004465D0@bsdimp.com> From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <2AAC0EF3-528B-476F-BA9C-CDC3004465D0@bsdimp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <93592.1446679609.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 23:26:49 +0000 Message-ID: <93593.1446679609@critter.freebsd.dk> X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 23:33:49 -0000 -------- In message <2AAC0EF3-528B-476F-BA9C-CDC3004465D0@bsdimp.com>, Warner Losh = write s: >I concur. I think sparc64 has had a nice run, but it's time to = >recognize that the run is nearing its end. The main reason we wantd to have sparc64 in the fold was that it was the opposite sex than i386, and thus helped find endianess bugs. The secondary reason was that it was 64 bit vs. i386's 32 bit. Today we have other platforms which keep us honest in these respects, and there is no longer an "objective" requirement to keep sparc64 alive. R.I.P. Poul-Henning -- = Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe = Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence= . From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 5 04:33:51 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C232A263F7 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 04:33:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [66.135.54.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E33A1188F; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 04:33:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id DB93A56083; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 22:33:43 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 22:33:43 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Warner Losh Cc: sbruno@freebsd.org, Marius Strobl , freebsd-arch Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Message-ID: <20151105043343.GA20673@lonesome.com> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <2AAC0EF3-528B-476F-BA9C-CDC3004465D0@bsdimp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2AAC0EF3-528B-476F-BA9C-CDC3004465D0@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 04:33:51 -0000 On Wed, Nov 04, 2015 at 04:19:38PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > Has anybody actually booted it off a newish tree? It runs 10.2R well. I haven't tried it with -current. mcl From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 5 04:39:19 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B59A26492 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 04:39:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [66.135.54.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD074199C; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 04:39:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 29ABC56083; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 22:39:19 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 22:39:19 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Warner Losh Cc: sbruno@freebsd.org, Marius Strobl , freebsd-arch Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Message-ID: <20151105043919.GB20673@lonesome.com> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <2AAC0EF3-528B-476F-BA9C-CDC3004465D0@bsdimp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <2AAC0EF3-528B-476F-BA9C-CDC3004465D0@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 04:39:19 -0000 On Wed, Nov 04, 2015 at 04:19:38PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > There was some work to get clang to do the right thing for sparc64. > Last I heard, the tree compiles with it. Our users who have tried it are not experienced enough to debug the problems. They would have to work with a developer. > Here’s a breakdown of commits in different parts of sys [...] > sparc64 rate of change has fallen way off since 2011, both in terms > of the number of commits, as well as the share of commits relative > to other platforms. True, but no new machines have been introduced in that time period. (Maybe this will be sufficient for some folks). So the commits are catchup commits to changes in other parts of the tree. So IMHO this is a _slightly_ biased metric compared to e.g. arm, where new machines seem to come out every day :-) tl;dr: if it's just Marius and I keeping it alive, that's clearly insufficient. mcl From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 5 06:01:30 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 652EFA26870; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 06:01:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ig0-x22c.google.com (mail-ig0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2CAA81E60; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 06:01:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by igpw7 with SMTP id w7so4344412igp.0; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 22:01:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=2mq3uR/+35pedFPtAIXzBadb3ngD0Uge7+sPKCQ1CUQ=; b=TvonYi2Huqj8hEmOcTEbim1o6D2Ou9bbay+U6dgJv5FFuQG7O2xsODRE9W1sg+SBnR 6xL4b/VEmDyjqB+KuIpQ7RpHS10WMHbrcJzKwyT9KajThPihaPIOx+pg4dFZquOdpgU7 i54+TzL8hqDtnccef4CvUL1wgKA+3m534B+YSYPc6N/5wOqM4Uq7WElVq1bkd+5l5nrF WpN9khJkLW6CdHJih/O1PIRhW3aR1JxKMTdI49SA6jBr8YFmRfPWnO0DGmJExIxX9Hov wRIx7ZRXBzZpjxx5Ef4fRtCOt2ZagDDIh06h7jb7edd6t1SBkLCBwa+S0xkV21WFVtd4 gWMg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.155.41 with SMTP id vt9mr1025610igb.22.1446703289619; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 22:01:29 -0800 (PST) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.36.217.196 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 22:01:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 22:01:29 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: vB7NH5bzVTjU-xbCZEQDg4mtUOI Message-ID: Subject: Fwd: COMPILER_TYPE and installworld From: Adrian Chadd To: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 06:01:30 -0000 Hi, I started digging into why "make installworld" doesn't work when using the external toolchain support using CROSS_TOOLCHAIN= support. This is one of the big hurdles to just using 100% external toolchain using bapt's CROSS_TOOLCHAIN support. The TL;DR seems to be: * buildworld/buildkernel: CC gets set right; PATH doesn't include /usr/bin:/usr/sbin * installkernel: MACHINE is set, CC is not set (so it's 'cc') and PATH includes /usr/bin:/usr/sbin * installworld: MACHINE is set, CC is not set, PATH doesn't include /usr/bin:/usr/sbin The result is that during installkernel it finds 'cc' in /usr/bin and detects it as clang, even though I'm doing a mips-gcc build. During installworld it fails because it can't find 'cc'. So! In the short term, is there any way that during installworld/installkernel we can also set CC, etc appropriately? Otherwise we're either using the wrong compiler logic/version (installkernel) or we're just plain not going to work (installworld.) Also - why is PATH including /usr/bin:/usr/sbin when doing installkernel, but not installworld? To reproduce: * pkg install mips-gcc mips-xtoolchain-gcc mips-binutils * env MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=/tmp/mips-obj make CROSS_TOOLCHAIN=mips-gcc TARGET=mips TARGET_ARCH=mips TARGET_CPUTYPE=mips32 DESTDIR=/tmp/mips-root -j 4 buildworld buildkernel installworld installkernel KERNCONF=MALTA ... make[4]: "/usr/home/adrian/work/freebsd/head-embedded-gcc5/src/share/mk/bsd.compiler.mk" line 50: warning: "machine: mips, X_COMPILER_TYPE: , CC: cc" make[4]: "/usr/home/adrian/work/freebsd/head-embedded-gcc5/src/share/mk/bsd.compiler.mk" line 96: warning: "Finished; COMPILER_TYPE=clang, COMPILER_VERSION=30700, COMPILER_FEATURES=c++11" .. so in the installkernel setup, the PATH includes /usr/bin which means 'cc' works, and thus it's detecting the compiler as clang even though we're supposed to be using mips-gcc. in the installworld setup, there's no /usr/bin in PATH, so it can't find cc. buildworld is ok: make[6]: "/usr/home/adrian/work/freebsd/head-embedded-gcc5/src/share/mk/bsd.compiler.mk" line 50: warning: "machine: amd64, X_COMPILER_TYPE: , CC: cc" make[6]: "/usr/home/adrian/work/freebsd/head-embedded-gcc5/src/share/mk/bsd.compiler.mk" line 96: warning: "Finished; COMPILER_TYPE=clang, COMPILER_VERSION=30700, COMPILER_FEATURES=c++11" ===> gnu/usr.bin/groff/src/devices/grops (obj) .. for the local stuff, and: make[5]: "/usr/home/adrian/work/freebsd/head-embedded-gcc5/src/share/mk/bsd.compiler.mk" line 50: warning: "machine: mips, X_COMPILER_TYPE: , CC: /usr/local/bin/mips-portbld-freebsd11.0-gcc -isystem /home/adrian/work/freebsd/head-embedded-gcc5/src/../obj/mips_ap//mips.mips/usr/home/adrian/work/freebsd/head-embedded-gcc5/src/tmp/usr/include -L/home/adrian/work/freebsd/head-embedded-gcc5/src/../obj/mips_ap//mips.mips/usr/home/adrian/work/freebsd/head-embedded-gcc5/src/tmp/usr/lib --sysroot=/home/adrian/work/freebsd/head-embedded-gcc5/src/../obj/mips_ap//mips.mips/usr/home/adrian/work/freebsd/head-embedded-gcc5/src/tmp -B/usr/local/mips-freebsd/bin/" make[5]: "/usr/home/adrian/work/freebsd/head-embedded-gcc5/src/share/mk/bsd.compiler.mk" line 96: warning: "Finished; COMPILER_TYPE=gcc, COMPILER_VERSION=50200, COMPILER_FEATURES=c++11" .. for the building mips stuff. So installkernel works only "by magic" because of PATH, and CC is just not being set right for installkernel/installworld. ok, so what now? :) -adrian From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 5 07:13:57 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F74CA26649; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 07:13:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from darius@dons.net.au) Received: from ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net (ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net [150.101.137.129]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87C69141E; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 07:13:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from darius@dons.net.au) Received: from ppp118-210-152-215.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net (HELO midget.dons.net.au) ([118.210.152.215]) by ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net with ESMTP; 05 Nov 2015 17:38:45 +1030 Received: from [10.0.2.26] ([10.0.2.26]) (authenticated bits=0) by midget.dons.net.au (8.15.1/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id tA578eKW095504 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Nov 2015 17:38:41 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from darius@dons.net.au) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.1 \(3096.5\)) Subject: Re: COMPILER_TYPE and installworld From: "O'Connor, Daniel" In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 17:38:40 +1030 Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <26BD9533-2C1E-4198-9AC2-BDD77A08337D@dons.net.au> References: To: Adrian Chadd X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3096.5) X-Spam-Score: -2.9 () ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.75 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 07:13:57 -0000 > On 5 Nov 2015, at 16:31, Adrian Chadd wrote: > So! In the short term, is there any way that during > installworld/installkernel we can also set CC, etc appropriately? > Otherwise we're either using the wrong compiler logic/version > (installkernel) or we're just plain not going to work (installworld.) Why does installworld/kernel care what the compiler type is? Or is it just something incidental which gets pulled in that complains = because it can't work it out? If so perhaps the easiest way would be to = add a flag which turns off compiler detection and set it for install* If install* _do_ need to know the compiler type then, bleh.. -- Daniel O'Connor "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 5 07:28:19 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73C1FA26A13; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 07:28:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ig0-x229.google.com (mail-ig0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D5E51AEB; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 07:28:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by igbdj2 with SMTP id dj2so5162022igb.1; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 23:28:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=UJH81/O0ErZOdSn2Z6jdZItR0zf+xTM2j83S3uDpSTY=; b=RoB0cYXPS+kNxbnm0FqFqkYDG8JcEcqwPaCuJTYvNFdxN3Q7oo9eUpVktmGClsMkq8 Xvk/RsoiXfVmRlrYvlqE5FfdCftXymJL4Iafmi3CB6n93AfJXV6dqXxbdDkYXa7sjhaq wON+Zg3FlzbaV1p0rYNwv7lAcL9W/Lly3oaqTGn/gr/+voclPtENtLfgBojcqBVE/lo2 nPUIG+vc+Yhlejz2eSSNL4nN3BWrhmTnx7EzrdsAHc4E6KFOBoGrKd30Oiu78OZSf/Ig x9GmDQGzc+kOQHzadzIzUcqzCH1+V/2HdF0ntSQga23dz2mLW4Rdw2l3/GT8momyod2M ut9g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.164.196 with SMTP id ys4mr1433991igb.37.1446708498705; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 23:28:18 -0800 (PST) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.36.217.196 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 23:28:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <26BD9533-2C1E-4198-9AC2-BDD77A08337D@dons.net.au> References: <26BD9533-2C1E-4198-9AC2-BDD77A08337D@dons.net.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 23:28:18 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: wZeaTR_wo4OGqljv42c9knAtU3g Message-ID: Subject: Re: COMPILER_TYPE and installworld From: Adrian Chadd To: "O'Connor, Daniel" Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 07:28:19 -0000 On 4 November 2015 at 23:08, O'Connor, Daniel wrote: > >> On 5 Nov 2015, at 16:31, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> So! In the short term, is there any way that during >> installworld/installkernel we can also set CC, etc appropriately? >> Otherwise we're either using the wrong compiler logic/version >> (installkernel) or we're just plain not going to work (installworld.) > > Why does installworld/kernel care what the compiler type is? There's some stuff that's conditionally compiled based ont he compiler. Don't ask. :) -a > Or is it just something incidental which gets pulled in that complains because it can't work it out? If so perhaps the easiest way would be to add a flag which turns off compiler detection and set it for install* > > If install* _do_ need to know the compiler type then, bleh.. > > -- > Daniel O'Connor > "The nice thing about standards is that there > are so many of them to choose from." > -- Andrew Tanenbaum > GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C > From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 5 07:46:24 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57A4FA26DD3; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 07:46:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yaneurabeya@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pa0-x230.google.com (mail-pa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25F1A1317; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 07:46:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yaneurabeya@gmail.com) Received: by pabfh17 with SMTP id fh17so79887729pab.0; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 23:46:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=vkdbg5npOsaCupkskya0uWlFAkvvWKeWxNqVI++XAro=; b=lJbUxcr3t5x25wRGbdi9I5IfHbDSJCuQMnUaV7KqsVzHdV/XdWHs6qvoixhHNx54rp siHsIgUqcTzaVwMF1RqeJMuBt8YpAYQm3919Hro+bM5TofjenthJq7wjrCVwpLYvI497 7zyt819Dx3KKl201v1yl7UxGHg3ju/lQ3FK7KsPwNtDkpinhgdhCqbqdj4p3OJ/caYph SMe6wGuuSD84P5I+3bfCb21j8vHK0kGxBaU0juR0fDkhdM0zk1y0k+DR2VGux82t8nsP /mwlB6qIPwx188RtsXAxo2F6TZFjm89uVaBJrBQoJpPnw31cH+ZSI8xO9c68KOQ7tOSb 5aXw== X-Received: by 10.66.160.35 with SMTP id xh3mr7718817pab.22.1446709583774; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 23:46:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.20.7] (c-24-16-212-205.hsd1.wa.comcast.net. [24.16.212.205]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ve8sm6135994pbc.48.2015.11.04.23.46.22 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Nov 2015 23:46:23 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) Subject: Re: COMPILER_TYPE and installworld From: NGie Cooper In-Reply-To: <26BD9533-2C1E-4198-9AC2-BDD77A08337D@dons.net.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 23:46:21 -0800 Cc: Adrian Chadd , "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <35BA9AA9-6DFA-4CFC-8AA8-25B1D9EDD494@gmail.com> References: <26BD9533-2C1E-4198-9AC2-BDD77A08337D@dons.net.au> To: "O'Connor, Daniel" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 07:46:24 -0000 > On Nov 4, 2015, at 23:08, O'Connor, Daniel wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On 5 Nov 2015, at 16:31, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> So! In the short term, is there any way that during >> installworld/installkernel we can also set CC, etc appropriately? >> Otherwise we're either using the wrong compiler logic/version >> (installkernel) or we're just plain not going to work (installworld.) >=20 > Why does installworld/kernel care what the compiler type is? >=20 > Or is it just something incidental which gets pulled in that complains = because it can't work it out? If so perhaps the easiest way would be to = add a flag which turns off compiler detection and set it for install* >=20 > If install* _do_ need to know the compiler type then, bleh.. It shouldn=E2=80=99t care. bsd.compiler.mk just has the intelligence of = a stump and Makefile.inc1 doesn=E2=80=99t tell bsd.compiler.mk to do = otherwise in the distribution/install phases. If it were up to me, CC would be false when make install* is run from = Makefile.inc1.= From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 5 16:02:47 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 816EBA27F5C; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 16:02:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ig0-x22b.google.com (mail-ig0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A1811C32; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 16:02:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by igpw7 with SMTP id w7so13880040igp.1; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 08:02:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=i3VzXLmtFuqG3yCq0zxGnSzVGipIgJxaYaJBkv1vGfk=; b=VzzmjVvUrU1wF1l/ROOqzwA1fpZ1Q5fWFJFjtuAc53VdPM9VSNt6WAXpdb5xDzaYSO bpQK/fwruJafcauy6cCXVwD4qY8sk4MeapT8N/alSmLfYHZNQywEGJaq0CTZwYmQkjrt 5g+UapQBhvIJP7ID6KHfkfLXJ0vsjcru/JgKV9opH9zHRn2NnsVwwVq80wo6P2ubv0Eu AQbrQmAGANhsJBq9rywYwg8PFUHH6nB2yqSZ6MEhAhLb3rpYhl0PqUthERPO7doCaxkp bNGboyMlBFbNcNFJTPFBf43Mcsh4BQq0WpPQZtzsRLi3GifKU/4Ol8F9XExSDn9b2NcY U/Lw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.6.36 with SMTP id x4mr3871063igx.61.1446739366682; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 08:02:46 -0800 (PST) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.36.217.196 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:02:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <35BA9AA9-6DFA-4CFC-8AA8-25B1D9EDD494@gmail.com> References: <26BD9533-2C1E-4198-9AC2-BDD77A08337D@dons.net.au> <35BA9AA9-6DFA-4CFC-8AA8-25B1D9EDD494@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:02:46 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: PjciV5HHLYkLsl9W4qQ2jFN0yvY Message-ID: Subject: Re: COMPILER_TYPE and installworld From: Adrian Chadd To: NGie Cooper Cc: "O'Connor, Daniel" , "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 16:02:47 -0000 On 4 November 2015 at 23:46, NGie Cooper wrote: > >> On Nov 4, 2015, at 23:08, O'Connor, Daniel wrote: >> >> >>> On 5 Nov 2015, at 16:31, Adrian Chadd wrote: >>> So! In the short term, is there any way that during >>> installworld/installkernel we can also set CC, etc appropriately? >>> Otherwise we're either using the wrong compiler logic/version >>> (installkernel) or we're just plain not going to work (installworld.) >> >> Why does installworld/kernel care what the compiler type is? >> >> Or is it just something incidental which gets pulled in that complains b= ecause it can't work it out? If so perhaps the easiest way would be to add = a flag which turns off compiler detection and set it for install* >> >> If install* _do_ need to know the compiler type then, bleh.. > > It shouldn=E2=80=99t care. bsd.compiler.mk just has the intelligence of a= stump and Makefile.inc1 doesn=E2=80=99t tell bsd.compiler.mk to do otherwi= se in the distribution/install phases. > > If it were up to me, CC would be false when make install* is run from Mak= efile.inc1. I don't mind what people do, I'd just really appreciate some help fixing this up. I think we're pretty close to being able to transition mips over to using 100% external toolchain only, and this is the starting point. So, what can we do? Pretty please? :) -adrian From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 5 18:13:22 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B18DA27D3C for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 18:13:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qg0-x22b.google.com (mail-qg0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BD6C12DD for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 18:13:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by qgeo38 with SMTP id o38so73761063qge.0 for ; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 10:13:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp_com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=JuZJh/soHvxEfrEIjS/a1yXqYYvhs2xau+yYS3kcMfA=; b=GBq2fSXeU7rJz9iRoKG4XgzdgdHKMug2UY1IyPCocmz7r7sOyWbzsj8d2X2TMTqwlo bIICCqtchFxhDLZgiCs3PN6gJMYKrWU7WJnc6akditk49jfBNzWarD+eHrzgL/iDGpXR J3aC3wKdliqx4jnQarimcQ2jQnCp7ZVPb3u3V5STNr2tlPgOZ5HKyiw1n2Ya+kC8XxJc saIOFS1lA0vKjNMxtVGofo9wxyz3zRtfltg42Gx62HcSji36IFFM2s6GMvwSdJ1IN3wm fYL7wUdCBnbrK7e3ljN0F3CAoyaHYH3aPdAZkVu4apebDMsnDSoLWWL8U1PQ3pjC0IbW QIJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=JuZJh/soHvxEfrEIjS/a1yXqYYvhs2xau+yYS3kcMfA=; b=DafHBiKmpjIWn76hDcfC7xuyT4rxTjjX3TEBf0sXeIt0RtLHNLWIyKIo3tyUiHxElx gczpVV9G3i6lWp1t44uW7IY23C+wQDgI4OsVEUiHYLoq6HL7OLx37LhvrkB3TCl4xMw2 d0qGjFoU4jQdBC45SG+C6KY256vmgddnY99Lh21vvCgYYx0KIRh9NJJ1rucmqIkjr1PT BVKI0NSxVyhRIDp1NUiRdE9qJXnNwzEPWq3neyD2m0Hw+itaix9MZrjxG6NqnrwzIJbO 622vPDPjaBbXVQi5vEI91pHqZ8IYqFQSW3whMeMQDAYb9ScgIceMtnmXTLxV4+3WZXbr QlGQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnNKg9C+oPHqQoyEfMHnV19ndGg2KWWb1n/DPZLHWZhfRh3qdd0EbFBEGJaa+CTD36hVZdX MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.221.198 with SMTP id r189mr9454270qhb.94.1446747201281; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 10:13:21 -0800 (PST) Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.140.104.226 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 10:13:21 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2601:280:4900:3700:1c53:4baf:e617:68c6] In-Reply-To: References: <26BD9533-2C1E-4198-9AC2-BDD77A08337D@dons.net.au> <35BA9AA9-6DFA-4CFC-8AA8-25B1D9EDD494@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 11:13:21 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Bw3ZS6s1utCmm4GQVFCOCvqMB_g Message-ID: Subject: Re: COMPILER_TYPE and installworld From: Warner Losh To: Adrian Chadd Cc: NGie Cooper , "O'Connor, Daniel" , "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.20 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 18:13:22 -0000 On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > On 4 November 2015 at 23:46, NGie Cooper wrote: > > > >> On Nov 4, 2015, at 23:08, O'Connor, Daniel wrote: > >> > >> > >>> On 5 Nov 2015, at 16:31, Adrian Chadd wrote: > >>> So! In the short term, is there any way that during > >>> installworld/installkernel we can also set CC, etc appropriately? > >>> Otherwise we're either using the wrong compiler logic/version > >>> (installkernel) or we're just plain not going to work (installworld.) > >> > >> Why does installworld/kernel care what the compiler type is? > >> > >> Or is it just something incidental which gets pulled in that complains > because it can't work it out? If so perhaps the easiest way would be to a= dd > a flag which turns off compiler detection and set it for install* > >> > >> If install* _do_ need to know the compiler type then, bleh.. > > > > It shouldn=E2=80=99t care. bsd.compiler.mk just has the intelligence of= a stump > and Makefile.inc1 doesn=E2=80=99t tell bsd.compiler.mk to do otherwise in= the > distribution/install phases. > > > > If it were up to me, CC would be false when make install* is run from > Makefile.inc1. > > I don't mind what people do, I'd just really appreciate some help > fixing this up. I think we're pretty close to being able to transition > mips over to using 100% external toolchain only, and this is the > starting point. > > So, what can we do? Pretty please? :) > Sadly, CC=3Dtrue (or CC=3Dfalse) doesn't solve the problem. The defaults on the system depend, stupidly[*], on the compiler you are using and it's capabilities. This means you won't install all the bits that need C++11 to build, for example. I'm joining this discussion late. What circumstances do we get CC wrong in install*? For ages, that's been working properly. What changed? I suspect 'nothing' and this is nothing more than a pilot error, but it's possible it's a real bug. Most likely it's the specific flavor of external toolchain that Bapt added isn't quite setting variables the way it should. Warner [*] I've railed against this in the past to no good effect, mind you. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 5 19:51:20 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C21D5A272B4 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 19:51:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (gate2.funkthat.com [208.87.223.18]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gold.funkthat.com", Issuer "gold.funkthat.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A3BB1B7A; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 19:51:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gold.funkthat.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id tA5JpCTV005407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Nov 2015 11:51:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by gold.funkthat.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id tA5JpCmm005406; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 11:51:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 11:51:12 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Mark Linimon Cc: Warner Losh , sbruno@freebsd.org, Marius Strobl , freebsd-arch Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Message-ID: <20151105195112.GG65715@funkthat.com> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <2AAC0EF3-528B-476F-BA9C-CDC3004465D0@bsdimp.com> <20151105043919.GB20673@lonesome.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20151105043919.GB20673@lonesome.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 9.1-PRERELEASE amd64 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 54BA 873B 6515 3F10 9E88 9322 9CB1 8F74 6D3F A396 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ X-Resume: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/resume.html X-TipJar: bitcoin:13Qmb6AeTgQecazTWph4XasEsP7nGRbAPE X-to-the-FBI-CIA-and-NSA: HI! HOW YA DOIN? can i haz chizburger? User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (gold.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 05 Nov 2015 11:51:12 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 19:51:20 -0000 Mark Linimon wrote this message on Wed, Nov 04, 2015 at 22:39 -0600: > On Wed, Nov 04, 2015 at 04:19:38PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > There was some work to get clang to do the right thing for sparc64. > > Last I heard, the tree compiles with it. > > Our users who have tried it are not experienced enough to debug the > problems. They would have to work with a developer. A developer needs to fix the pcpu issues that I talk about in: https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-sparc64/2014-March/009235.html to get sparc64 using clang... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not." From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 5 23:24:36 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98353A27644; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 23:24:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-x231.google.com (mail-wi0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C63D178D; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 23:24:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com) Received: by wicll6 with SMTP id ll6so19922643wic.0; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 15:24:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=k7nsaQXFlzKtZ7SzBD7H2xgsmMFpGUPwD1fXfOr/w5c=; b=KiFfRxQ+P68MssOZpFAYAeXxPo0d6c96za3H+R5OT27Xmk7oFSZmR4Q//eAgcM1cj0 lcGgW58t83C9SjF80+ws36ClmF6PllWqFMNI20gNQZHxCBrNmw1ZGjebeLQePwuTJqsV udF9lMsdh/D/30W88m7SLjSaCI17PL/EDgmEQTLPHbt795uuJhDt/qCeSG0CXv4Em0/y bX3nM+iDeAEWRZiSVIN4cXg3Rjo4cN60I7tq6HiSjuulADXZzDHfHQckChqayI9xKpSZ DQkl2h9gARrCNamAilVoS1MRoNarYKdKIcx9o7COnbnM8AeGiEWGJbSIp6wU5eiI5MxG JmhQ== X-Received: by 10.194.24.38 with SMTP id r6mr12553792wjf.5.1446765874692; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 15:24:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ivaldir.etoilebsd.net ([2001:41d0:8:db4c::1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m143sm117055wmb.1.2015.11.05.15.24.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Nov 2015 15:24:33 -0800 (PST) Sender: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 00:24:32 +0100 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Adrian Chadd Cc: Peter Jeremy , Sean Bruno , freebsd-sparc64 , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Message-ID: <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hwvH6HDNit2nSK4j" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 23:24:36 -0000 --hwvH6HDNit2nSK4j Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Nov 04, 2015 at 02:13:29PM -0800, Adrian Chadd wrote: > We don't have to expect clang support to work. Just having someone > champion the external toolchain stuff and getting sparc64 > world/kernel/release building from say, sparc64-gcc 5.x would be > enough. >=20 sparc64 has been the first arch that have been tested with external toolcha= in: build and run just fine. The problem with the external toolchain is that if you are not able to cross build the ports until you get a working toolchain available via packages, y= ou are doomed. And we do not have that Bapt --hwvH6HDNit2nSK4j Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlY75S8ACgkQ8kTtMUmk6EzlqwCgvxYFG54BuIxeZy+jBM1+s+9B 8pYAoKFAHDiwulAwd3fhkNhaO3mggOxM =TPPL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --hwvH6HDNit2nSK4j-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 5 23:34:27 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46B36A279B8; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 23:34:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ig0-x22f.google.com (mail-ig0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 129091477; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 23:34:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by igbdj2 with SMTP id dj2so22609838igb.1; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 15:34:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=5Kgv6x/+F2y1T6QizCyuGEpCz1cTcpjIwF6Eeu6zOyo=; b=TnMyEO6zFObQsuRl0C9WnnMcl5mnqFnoUFCUh3MzYBAJLjp4hL2eyiJ9g2tf9pey3w j/5EAonP9WPUrffM4ankvH/+9VT4rH+fxKijxZFtAtuj8N9hW59yGEMtgi4rqrHrGuoQ 83tw7Mor5xo5cRmiFDYEZcLwBv2JyJZbjPB5LQ6Hn/eayQ8HQcxotWxb0M628VjQFT1y vI8ZokwftKRFNF6hHu98Xw3w0glzqzA1ZiOkIvMw9uVpOzQ5alfO5IvbPCbwNaAKLbp8 Ui6jivEGS564pDUbb2TvK/Yfc8Yvc65hcudrny3Udox+liqH/qRkoHZgmW+SGYfRZqn1 h5pA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.6.36 with SMTP id x4mr5863631igx.61.1446766466437; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 15:34:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.217.196 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 15:34:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 15:34:26 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 From: Adrian Chadd To: Baptiste Daroussin Cc: Peter Jeremy , Sean Bruno , freebsd-sparc64 , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 23:34:27 -0000 On 5 November 2015 at 15:24, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > On Wed, Nov 04, 2015 at 02:13:29PM -0800, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> We don't have to expect clang support to work. Just having someone >> champion the external toolchain stuff and getting sparc64 >> world/kernel/release building from say, sparc64-gcc 5.x would be >> enough. >> > sparc64 has been the first arch that have been tested with external toolchain: > build and run just fine. > > The problem with the external toolchain is that if you are not able to cross > build the ports until you get a working toolchain available via packages, you > are doomed. > > And we do not have that Right. You don't end up with a toolchain built if you use an external toolchain to build. I discovered this amusement when I first got this up for MIPS. :) -adrian From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Nov 6 09:31:17 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C712CA266CA; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 09:31:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexmcwhirter@triadic.us) Received: from SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (smtp.tech.triadic.us [98.102.61.98]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B5431069; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 09:31:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexmcwhirter@triadic.us) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.128.0.32]) by SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (Postfix) with ESMTP id 237FA10405ED; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 04:18:52 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at Tech.Triadic.US Received: from SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US ([IPv6:::ffff:10.128.0.24]) by localhost (Milter1.Tech.Triadic.US [IPv6:::ffff:10.128.0.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id fxJhumB5duSa; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 04:18:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from webmail.tech.triadic.us (unknown [10.128.0.56]) by SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 520561040432; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 04:18:51 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 04:18:51 -0500 From: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us To: Adrian Chadd Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , Sean Bruno , freebsd-sparc64 , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 In-Reply-To: References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> Message-ID: <6189d48d3a178c4ebf501361c75de23f@triadic.us> X-Sender: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.0.5 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 09:31:17 -0000 On 2015-11-05 18:34, Adrian Chadd wrote: > On 5 November 2015 at 15:24, Baptiste Daroussin > wrote: >> On Wed, Nov 04, 2015 at 02:13:29PM -0800, Adrian Chadd wrote: >>> We don't have to expect clang support to work. Just having someone >>> champion the external toolchain stuff and getting sparc64 >>> world/kernel/release building from say, sparc64-gcc 5.x would be >>> enough. >>> >> sparc64 has been the first arch that have been tested with external >> toolchain: >> build and run just fine. >> >> The problem with the external toolchain is that if you are not able to >> cross >> build the ports until you get a working toolchain available via >> packages, you >> are doomed. >> >> And we do not have that > > Right. You don't end up with a toolchain built if you use an external > toolchain to build. I discovered this amusement when I first got this > up for MIPS. :) > > > > -adrian > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-sparc64 > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-sparc64-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" So is the problem in question the lack of being able to use clang/llvm? Or that newer hardware is unsupported? sparc64 supports sun4u which is most boxes, Fujitsu Sparc64 boxes also work quite well. The only thing really missing is sun4v and a few drivers here and there. OpenBSD has support for almost all of the newer Sun/Oracle boxes, which shouldn't bee too hard to port over. http://www.openbsd.org/sparc64.html Because of the lack of sun4v support i have moved over to a custom illumos distro, but one of the things im working on there is to replace gcc with clang/llvm. If it means saving the sparc64 port i will gladly move some of my work over to freebsd. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Nov 6 14:19:43 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83911A2861A; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 14:19:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sbruno@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.ignoranthack.me (ignoranthack.me [199.102.79.106]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6593517D2; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 14:19:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sbruno@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.200.208] (unknown [50.136.155.142]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: sbruno@ignoranthack.me) by mail.ignoranthack.me (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 401EE1934F2; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 14:19:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 To: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <6189d48d3a178c4ebf501361c75de23f@triadic.us> Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-sparc64 From: Sean Bruno Message-ID: <563CB6FC.209@freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 06:19:40 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6189d48d3a178c4ebf501361c75de23f@triadic.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 14:19:43 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 11/06/15 01:18, alexmcwhirter@triadic.us wrote: > So is the problem in question the lack of being able to use > clang/llvm? Or that newer hardware is unsupported? sparc64 supports > sun4u which is most boxes, Fujitsu Sparc64 boxes also work quite > well. The only thing really missing is sun4v and a few drivers here > and there. OpenBSD has support for almost all of the newer > Sun/Oracle boxes, which shouldn't bee too hard to port over. > > http://www.openbsd.org/sparc64.html > > Because of the lack of sun4v support i have moved over to a custom > illumos distro, but one of the things im working on there is to > replace gcc with clang/llvm. If it means saving the sparc64 port i > will gladly move some of my work over to freebsd. problem 1. the base clang/llvm doesn't support the FreeBSD sparc64 target. This needs work, and hey, if someone wants to spend the time to get things working, great. Let's move on it and modernize the target. problem 2. lack of development hardware in the FreeBSD project. I'm not asking for people to buy the FreeBSD project 10-15 year old sparc hardware and send it to us. We don't want it. If there is a push to modernize support for Sparc machines, we can talk about aquiring new machines and racking them up as reference boxes. If there are people interested in modernizing CPU support, by all means, move forward and do it. Don't let me stop you. sean p.s. if someone wants to take a stab at resurrecting qemu-user-static support for sparc64 so portmgr can build tier-2 packages like we do for mips/arm, please take a look at https://github.com/seanbruno/qemu-bsd-user/tree/bsd-user -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQF8BAEBCgBmBQJWPLb5XxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRCQUFENDYzMkU3MTIxREU4RDIwOTk3REQx MjAxRUZDQTFFNzI3RTY0AAoJEBIB78oecn5kaf4H/0C3rHmnFv3dtAyYwEzX4vLy erkQ1MD42czuLuSCcywO/P82u4ytV4Tsc/4A7uJvabQfanZF4s8rBPDdGoodIslO gZhvtMxhojueqtcvZjcLCBX5v3iu0aDL8w6PAafm0QvUUUNft42jbw+nD8l6xF+5 pPpKB0OK6KS3beuSqRGqfLIwAGSSXKjkktm3WaPEHu6N+WNCnA/kPMdLl2VTD7fU SOwkeoE5ItWgeHwQ1V6fr/kbRxJ+QYUxSeN5XeFzkQGM58GlkT2dhjL/y6feU6AO MlvOJhax03+uOGR4sxQOJ+F5ndWPbuZ+Lk64eVQiHoW6nbpKtuAwrAzehD9lg0w= =jW6R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Nov 6 20:24:48 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99CDEA28723; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 20:24:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexmcwhirter@triadic.us) Received: from SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (smtp.tech.triadic.us [98.102.61.98]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5943D1ADF; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 20:24:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexmcwhirter@triadic.us) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.128.0.32]) by SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD9D610406BC; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:17:38 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at Tech.Triadic.US Received: from SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US ([IPv6:::ffff:10.128.0.24]) by localhost (Milter1.Tech.Triadic.US [IPv6:::ffff:10.128.0.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id ykEH3pK7-65T; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:17:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from webmail.tech.triadic.us (unknown [10.128.0.56]) by SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9CACE1040695; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:17:37 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 15:17:37 -0500 From: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us To: Sean Bruno Cc: freebsd-sparc64 , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 In-Reply-To: <563CB6FC.209@freebsd.org> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <6189d48d3a178c4ebf501361c75de23f@triadic.us> <563CB6FC.209@freebsd.org> Message-ID: <59db1eecc713a9af58342f41b700dfd3@triadic.us> X-Sender: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.0.5 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 20:24:48 -0000 On 2015-11-06 09:19, Sean Bruno wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > > > On 11/06/15 01:18, alexmcwhirter@triadic.us wrote: >> So is the problem in question the lack of being able to use >> clang/llvm? Or that newer hardware is unsupported? sparc64 supports >> sun4u which is most boxes, Fujitsu Sparc64 boxes also work quite >> well. The only thing really missing is sun4v and a few drivers here >> and there. OpenBSD has support for almost all of the newer >> Sun/Oracle boxes, which shouldn't bee too hard to port over. >> >> http://www.openbsd.org/sparc64.html >> >> Because of the lack of sun4v support i have moved over to a custom >> illumos distro, but one of the things im working on there is to >> replace gcc with clang/llvm. If it means saving the sparc64 port i >> will gladly move some of my work over to freebsd. > > problem 1. the base clang/llvm doesn't support the FreeBSD sparc64 > target. This needs work, and hey, if someone wants to spend the time > to get things working, great. Let's move on it and modernize the > target. > > problem 2. lack of development hardware in the FreeBSD project. I'm > not asking for people to buy the FreeBSD project 10-15 year old sparc > hardware and send it to us. We don't want it. If there is a push to > modernize support for Sparc machines, we can talk about aquiring new > machines and racking them up as reference boxes. If there are people > interested in modernizing CPU support, by all means, move forward and > do it. Don't let me stop you. > > sean > > p.s. if someone wants to take a stab at resurrecting qemu-user-static > support for sparc64 so portmgr can build tier-2 packages like we do > for mips/arm, please take a look at > https://github.com/seanbruno/qemu-bsd-user/tree/bsd-user > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2 > > iQF8BAEBCgBmBQJWPLb5XxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w > ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRCQUFENDYzMkU3MTIxREU4RDIwOTk3REQx > MjAxRUZDQTFFNzI3RTY0AAoJEBIB78oecn5kaf4H/0C3rHmnFv3dtAyYwEzX4vLy > erkQ1MD42czuLuSCcywO/P82u4ytV4Tsc/4A7uJvabQfanZF4s8rBPDdGoodIslO > gZhvtMxhojueqtcvZjcLCBX5v3iu0aDL8w6PAafm0QvUUUNft42jbw+nD8l6xF+5 > pPpKB0OK6KS3beuSqRGqfLIwAGSSXKjkktm3WaPEHu6N+WNCnA/kPMdLl2VTD7fU > SOwkeoE5ItWgeHwQ1V6fr/kbRxJ+QYUxSeN5XeFzkQGM58GlkT2dhjL/y6feU6AO > MlvOJhax03+uOGR4sxQOJ+F5ndWPbuZ+Lk64eVQiHoW6nbpKtuAwrAzehD9lg0w= > =jW6R > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" As for the first issue, ill take a look a see what im actually dealing with. Like i said, i'm working clang/llvm for illumos but that's an entirely different beast. I have access to quite a lot of sparc gear. V215, T1000, T5120, M4000, E6K, Netra X1, and a few more. I don't mind hosting a couple of them if anyone in interested in doing some work on them. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Nov 6 20:35:34 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A294CA28928; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 20:35:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (gate2.funkthat.com [208.87.223.18]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gold.funkthat.com", Issuer "gold.funkthat.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A0A51EEA; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 20:35:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gold.funkthat.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id tA6KZRcT024233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 6 Nov 2015 12:35:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by gold.funkthat.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id tA6KZRWf024232; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 12:35:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 12:35:27 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Sean Bruno Cc: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us, freebsd-sparc64 , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Message-ID: <20151106203527.GH65715@funkthat.com> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <6189d48d3a178c4ebf501361c75de23f@triadic.us> <563CB6FC.209@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <563CB6FC.209@freebsd.org> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 9.1-PRERELEASE amd64 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 54BA 873B 6515 3F10 9E88 9322 9CB1 8F74 6D3F A396 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ X-Resume: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/resume.html X-TipJar: bitcoin:13Qmb6AeTgQecazTWph4XasEsP7nGRbAPE X-to-the-FBI-CIA-and-NSA: HI! HOW YA DOIN? can i haz chizburger? User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (gold.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 06 Nov 2015 12:35:27 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 20:35:34 -0000 Sean Bruno wrote this message on Fri, Nov 06, 2015 at 06:19 -0800: > problem 1. the base clang/llvm doesn't support the FreeBSD sparc64 > target. This needs work, and hey, if someone wants to spend the time > to get things working, great. Let's move on it and modernize the target. We've had support for sparc64 in base clang/llvm for close to a year.. The problem isn't clang, the problem is making our kernel sources work with it... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not." From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Nov 6 20:42:57 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2DC4A28AC9; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 20:42:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexmcwhirter@triadic.us) Received: from SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (smtp.tech.triadic.us [98.102.61.98]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAF1A14EE; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 20:42:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexmcwhirter@triadic.us) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.128.0.32]) by SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F0310406BC; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:35:48 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at Tech.Triadic.US Received: from SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US ([IPv6:::ffff:10.128.0.24]) by localhost (Milter1.Tech.Triadic.US [IPv6:::ffff:10.128.0.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id gXXZwBsAIjPW; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:35:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from webmail.tech.triadic.us (unknown [10.128.0.56]) by SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 502671040695; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:35:48 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 15:35:48 -0500 From: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: Sean Bruno , freebsd-sparc64 , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 In-Reply-To: <20151106203527.GH65715@funkthat.com> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <6189d48d3a178c4ebf501361c75de23f@triadic.us> <563CB6FC.209@freebsd.org> <20151106203527.GH65715@funkthat.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.0.5 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 20:42:57 -0000 On 2015-11-06 15:35, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Sean Bruno wrote this message on Fri, Nov 06, 2015 at 06:19 -0800: >> problem 1. the base clang/llvm doesn't support the FreeBSD sparc64 >> target. This needs work, and hey, if someone wants to spend the time >> to get things working, great. Let's move on it and modernize the >> target. > > We've had support for sparc64 in base clang/llvm for close to a year.. > The problem isn't clang, the problem is making our kernel sources work > with it... The same is true for illumos, i can build clang/llvm and use it with no issues for userland stuff, but the core system needs work to build correctly. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Nov 7 08:03:00 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61087A2841D; Sat, 7 Nov 2015 08:03:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rdivacky@vlakno.cz) Received: from vlakno.cz (mail.vlakno.cz [91.217.96.224]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 245181FE9; Sat, 7 Nov 2015 08:02:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rdivacky@vlakno.cz) Received: by vlakno.cz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 6579E1E209B1; Sat, 7 Nov 2015 09:00:45 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=vlakno.cz; s=mail; t=1446883245; bh=+vEw5YX6ADCL8o1dYKaNXeTt3uLE65jAUU37VuTbNKQ=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=A9h7g8fTkSPSiImJHO8O5vu7AfZ7nGCD0oDuQ/C5L71MuU71KRcOwCuyqaWqDFE2U xNXDagMT7Itzm0jSwcXUuM2Bv09GtB8ITsYZFfWHLg7XYa1wgOVVTS1gJ+6PC4QD70 RxYH1Z5AsZuA6chKo7+p1jG9Ue84F8aFEWxfvW04= Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2015 09:00:45 +0100 From: Roman Divacky To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: Sean Bruno , alexmcwhirter@triadic.us, freebsd-sparc64 , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Message-ID: <20151107080045.GA4586@vlakno.cz> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <6189d48d3a178c4ebf501361c75de23f@triadic.us> <563CB6FC.209@freebsd.org> <20151106203527.GH65715@funkthat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20151106203527.GH65715@funkthat.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2015 08:03:00 -0000 On Fri, Nov 06, 2015 at 12:35:27PM -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Sean Bruno wrote this message on Fri, Nov 06, 2015 at 06:19 -0800: > > problem 1. the base clang/llvm doesn't support the FreeBSD sparc64 > > target. This needs work, and hey, if someone wants to spend the time > > to get things working, great. Let's move on it and modernize the target. > > We've had support for sparc64 in base clang/llvm for close to a year.. > The problem isn't clang, the problem is making our kernel sources work > with it... LLVM still lacks some (many?) things needed to compile FreeBSD kernel. If nothing else, at least this patch (http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-commits/Week-of-Mon-20141215/248852.html) is needed. There's also different frame size and probably some other issues. Roman