From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Wed Nov 4 21:56:58 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B5BA2621B; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 21:56:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vps.rulingia.com (vps.rulingia.com [103.243.244.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vps.rulingia.com", Issuer "CAcert Class 3 Root" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55DF111AC; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 21:56:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from server.rulingia.com (c220-239-242-83.belrs5.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.242.83]) by vps.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id tA4LiwQV080950 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:45:06 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id tA4Liqs8021888 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:44:52 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id tA4Lip4Y021887; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:44:51 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:44:51 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Sean Bruno Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Message-ID: <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="1LKvkjL3sHcu1TtY" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded STARTTLS authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (vps.rulingia.com [103.243.244.15]); Thu, 05 Nov 2015 08:45:06 +1100 (AEDT) X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 21:56:58 -0000 --1LKvkjL3sHcu1TtY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [Adding sparc64] On 2015-Nov-04 11:12:19 -0800, Sean Bruno wrote: >So here's the thing, Sparc64 is *just* barely alive in FreeBSD. > >There is exactly 1 Sparc64 machine as a ref box being hosted at Yahoo >for the project. No new hardware is on the horizon. None of the newer >Sparc64 processors have been tested to work on FreeBSD and nobody is >clamoring to get them working. > >We're moving into a post-gcc base system now, and sparc64 is the obvious >"odd arch" here. There's activity to get MIPS moved to clang and active >work to get powerpc moved fully to clang. Leaving Sparc64 in base, >requires someone to either make clang DTRT or keep gcc 4.2.1-ish alive. I don't think the latter is an option. Doing so means that the entire machine-independent codebase needs to be compilable with gcc 4.2.1, blocking the use of any new feature. IMHO, this should be around the other way: FreeBSD 11.x will require all supported architectures to be buildable with clang. http://llvm.org/releases/3.5.0/docs/ReleaseNotes.html states that clang can self-host on FreeBSD/Sparc64 so this doesn't seem an unreasonable requirement. >I have asked around for help getting the Sparc64 qemu-bsd-user binary >working so I could at a minimum build packages, and I have gotten no >feedback from folks. So the only option here is to resurrect sparc64 >machines somewhere and start up builds on real hardware. > >Let's just call it what it is, a dead end of the technology tree. >I move that we do NOT produce 11.0 versions for Sparc64 and it should be >dropped from the tree. I agree. Even if the compiler issues are resolved, there doesn't appear to be the critical mass within the Project to keep the architecture alive. I also feel that no 11.0 FreeBSD/sparc64 makes much more sense than axing support just after 11.0 - if we release 11.0 on sparc64, we are pretty much committed to supporting sparc64 for the life of the 11.x branch and supporting an orphaned architechure for that long is going to be extremely painful. OTOH, I feel it's reasonable for the code to not be axed until after 11.0 in case there's a sufficient groundswell of support to reverse the deprecation decision. Taking the FreeBSD/alpha deprecation as a precedent, deprecation was officially announced in May 2006: https://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=3D14637+0+archive/2006/freebs= d-alpha/20060514.freebsd-alpha with the website updated a couple of months later: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/doc/head/en_US.ISO8859-1/htdocs/platforms/alpha.= xml?revision=3D28282 and the family tree shows: FreeBSD 6.0 2005-11-01 [FBD] FreeBSD 6.1 2006-05-08 [FBD] FreeBSD 5.5 2006-05-25 [FBD] FreeBSD 6.2 2007-01-15 [FBD] FreeBSD 6.3 2008-01-18 [FBD] FreeBSD 7.0 2008-02-27 [FBD] --=20 Peter Jeremy --1LKvkjL3sHcu1TtY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJWOnxSXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFRUIyOTg2QzMwNjcxRTc0RTY1QzIyN0Ux NkE1OTdBMEU0QTIwQjM0AAoJEBall6Dkogs0ueIP/jceAT5/48pkBAdTI8HIAYHD CouCFuNJG7j0Wk5PI9RKVYBacu3dYOhubk6XbRe1jEGtq38skOzdYmZp8eWdXr0b iulDBuDw5WUq4okkuXnP3REUuorbKef+4vvSWXa3yPg2+Q7I9uF+BhjCR736vniW kzZAnRg25OtE3Duqs7lMmPY94lx0NkEPc1QAUhwDLJmLrb77zJtz9VRyeZ3c6+Lc /GB7lE3ouc3DtIqot72k9dnOWDUaNx2+QNwQiHyhtiC8Jzm1SVvCq5QXDB17vruy JvmdCCM8moTfcABJN+pjwDm+pvIYe97N72eyk4Udn5umYQHgJHzgEzAlcZJ500Yw L/OA6vrGM4paJxVdSP2IQa5a5TVz3IEFhnm+a51BD7JS7LZmIxEJuZL9GBxEYZa/ PVPLdaJNGyIBmG4kxcP+/Plwu3gYL2ZN2GvoMq+bEy+Yb+PAljSegugcsY2mMY0+ BK5WBd/D0g47Bw4U4KatwDoO0V/We9m1JCFd1eNNblsLnSuomkSs+ngMkofeLSa+ e4OkbKaJ8cO8/bVyqVbeOWJ071E+t8ksZDIPtFf51uU0A+0xEB/TJBXfphzC/Sph i7sJ+M6rNWiVerXTGdEKK7JFjgbcrpXBdoP9450pPeslVdwpTShZzRmQfyH5RK5O 5S2OaNK+Ko0Chrnaj4nQ =0Yyn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1LKvkjL3sHcu1TtY-- From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Wed Nov 4 22:13:30 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C29A264BF; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 22:13:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ig0-x22c.google.com (mail-ig0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCE18198E; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 22:13:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by igdg1 with SMTP id g1so116583657igd.1; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 14:13:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=S3lOD38R2JQcJpR7AxQU3DR8u7eEu9c8G6hIBB4s1lw=; b=CNqMHK7HV3JDAB+uWhuS/GaB4x3mPFNkzVouE6p1y/WpwAJvKDgxO4mt4dM77+97Ug /TEYgA5o3yuV0gDgSzdYkSZENmfYf186kp95p/uh7wn13ZCohQHU2ELWdmDydybGiJ5V mpB3zPrzgDueDpQzRfuxDLE1xJJlUxbV+4Ks1u1nE7HEIhPEQ8KwmY1udyFUdfS9KBa/ brFr/p2Zp0nmrDUvsmL2qBxIhSQ5J4ZQDlk9YQk2K0yn9/Mce+HByjvuFMoCRki8oFTH FsnQ8/XA0kIJjkrHS210ydbj+Wa3M2lu6eWr7PCuhV0tC70AN5XRlrGtrvTZyOdXspKj gokA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.164.196 with SMTP id ys4mr6285616igb.37.1446675209260; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 14:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.46.66 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 14:13:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 14:13:29 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 From: Adrian Chadd To: Peter Jeremy Cc: Sean Bruno , freebsd-sparc64 , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 22:13:30 -0000 We don't have to expect clang support to work. Just having someone champion the external toolchain stuff and getting sparc64 world/kernel/release building from say, sparc64-gcc 5.x would be enough. The hardware support and such is a separate problem. I'd just like someone there to bite the bullet and push through external toolchain support for sparc64 and removing the use of gcc-4.2 there. -a From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Thu Nov 5 23:24:36 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98353A27644; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 23:24:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-x231.google.com (mail-wi0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C63D178D; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 23:24:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com) Received: by wicll6 with SMTP id ll6so19922643wic.0; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 15:24:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=k7nsaQXFlzKtZ7SzBD7H2xgsmMFpGUPwD1fXfOr/w5c=; b=KiFfRxQ+P68MssOZpFAYAeXxPo0d6c96za3H+R5OT27Xmk7oFSZmR4Q//eAgcM1cj0 lcGgW58t83C9SjF80+ws36ClmF6PllWqFMNI20gNQZHxCBrNmw1ZGjebeLQePwuTJqsV udF9lMsdh/D/30W88m7SLjSaCI17PL/EDgmEQTLPHbt795uuJhDt/qCeSG0CXv4Em0/y bX3nM+iDeAEWRZiSVIN4cXg3Rjo4cN60I7tq6HiSjuulADXZzDHfHQckChqayI9xKpSZ DQkl2h9gARrCNamAilVoS1MRoNarYKdKIcx9o7COnbnM8AeGiEWGJbSIp6wU5eiI5MxG JmhQ== X-Received: by 10.194.24.38 with SMTP id r6mr12553792wjf.5.1446765874692; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 15:24:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ivaldir.etoilebsd.net ([2001:41d0:8:db4c::1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m143sm117055wmb.1.2015.11.05.15.24.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Nov 2015 15:24:33 -0800 (PST) Sender: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 00:24:32 +0100 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Adrian Chadd Cc: Peter Jeremy , Sean Bruno , freebsd-sparc64 , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Message-ID: <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hwvH6HDNit2nSK4j" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 23:24:36 -0000 --hwvH6HDNit2nSK4j Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Nov 04, 2015 at 02:13:29PM -0800, Adrian Chadd wrote: > We don't have to expect clang support to work. Just having someone > champion the external toolchain stuff and getting sparc64 > world/kernel/release building from say, sparc64-gcc 5.x would be > enough. >=20 sparc64 has been the first arch that have been tested with external toolcha= in: build and run just fine. The problem with the external toolchain is that if you are not able to cross build the ports until you get a working toolchain available via packages, y= ou are doomed. And we do not have that Bapt --hwvH6HDNit2nSK4j Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlY75S8ACgkQ8kTtMUmk6EzlqwCgvxYFG54BuIxeZy+jBM1+s+9B 8pYAoKFAHDiwulAwd3fhkNhaO3mggOxM =TPPL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --hwvH6HDNit2nSK4j-- From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Thu Nov 5 23:34:27 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46B36A279B8; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 23:34:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ig0-x22f.google.com (mail-ig0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 129091477; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 23:34:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by igbdj2 with SMTP id dj2so22609838igb.1; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 15:34:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=5Kgv6x/+F2y1T6QizCyuGEpCz1cTcpjIwF6Eeu6zOyo=; b=TnMyEO6zFObQsuRl0C9WnnMcl5mnqFnoUFCUh3MzYBAJLjp4hL2eyiJ9g2tf9pey3w j/5EAonP9WPUrffM4ankvH/+9VT4rH+fxKijxZFtAtuj8N9hW59yGEMtgi4rqrHrGuoQ 83tw7Mor5xo5cRmiFDYEZcLwBv2JyJZbjPB5LQ6Hn/eayQ8HQcxotWxb0M628VjQFT1y vI8ZokwftKRFNF6hHu98Xw3w0glzqzA1ZiOkIvMw9uVpOzQ5alfO5IvbPCbwNaAKLbp8 Ui6jivEGS564pDUbb2TvK/Yfc8Yvc65hcudrny3Udox+liqH/qRkoHZgmW+SGYfRZqn1 h5pA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.6.36 with SMTP id x4mr5863631igx.61.1446766466437; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 15:34:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.217.196 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 15:34:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 15:34:26 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 From: Adrian Chadd To: Baptiste Daroussin Cc: Peter Jeremy , Sean Bruno , freebsd-sparc64 , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 23:34:27 -0000 On 5 November 2015 at 15:24, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > On Wed, Nov 04, 2015 at 02:13:29PM -0800, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> We don't have to expect clang support to work. Just having someone >> champion the external toolchain stuff and getting sparc64 >> world/kernel/release building from say, sparc64-gcc 5.x would be >> enough. >> > sparc64 has been the first arch that have been tested with external toolchain: > build and run just fine. > > The problem with the external toolchain is that if you are not able to cross > build the ports until you get a working toolchain available via packages, you > are doomed. > > And we do not have that Right. You don't end up with a toolchain built if you use an external toolchain to build. I discovered this amusement when I first got this up for MIPS. :) -adrian From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Fri Nov 6 09:31:17 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C712CA266CA; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 09:31:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexmcwhirter@triadic.us) Received: from SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (smtp.tech.triadic.us [98.102.61.98]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B5431069; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 09:31:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexmcwhirter@triadic.us) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.128.0.32]) by SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (Postfix) with ESMTP id 237FA10405ED; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 04:18:52 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at Tech.Triadic.US Received: from SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US ([IPv6:::ffff:10.128.0.24]) by localhost (Milter1.Tech.Triadic.US [IPv6:::ffff:10.128.0.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id fxJhumB5duSa; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 04:18:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from webmail.tech.triadic.us (unknown [10.128.0.56]) by SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 520561040432; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 04:18:51 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 04:18:51 -0500 From: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us To: Adrian Chadd Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , Sean Bruno , freebsd-sparc64 , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 In-Reply-To: References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> Message-ID: <6189d48d3a178c4ebf501361c75de23f@triadic.us> X-Sender: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.0.5 X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 09:31:17 -0000 On 2015-11-05 18:34, Adrian Chadd wrote: > On 5 November 2015 at 15:24, Baptiste Daroussin > wrote: >> On Wed, Nov 04, 2015 at 02:13:29PM -0800, Adrian Chadd wrote: >>> We don't have to expect clang support to work. Just having someone >>> champion the external toolchain stuff and getting sparc64 >>> world/kernel/release building from say, sparc64-gcc 5.x would be >>> enough. >>> >> sparc64 has been the first arch that have been tested with external >> toolchain: >> build and run just fine. >> >> The problem with the external toolchain is that if you are not able to >> cross >> build the ports until you get a working toolchain available via >> packages, you >> are doomed. >> >> And we do not have that > > Right. You don't end up with a toolchain built if you use an external > toolchain to build. I discovered this amusement when I first got this > up for MIPS. :) > > > > -adrian > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-sparc64 > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-sparc64-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" So is the problem in question the lack of being able to use clang/llvm? Or that newer hardware is unsupported? sparc64 supports sun4u which is most boxes, Fujitsu Sparc64 boxes also work quite well. The only thing really missing is sun4v and a few drivers here and there. OpenBSD has support for almost all of the newer Sun/Oracle boxes, which shouldn't bee too hard to port over. http://www.openbsd.org/sparc64.html Because of the lack of sun4v support i have moved over to a custom illumos distro, but one of the things im working on there is to replace gcc with clang/llvm. If it means saving the sparc64 port i will gladly move some of my work over to freebsd. From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Fri Nov 6 14:19:43 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83911A2861A; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 14:19:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sbruno@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.ignoranthack.me (ignoranthack.me [199.102.79.106]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6593517D2; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 14:19:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sbruno@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.200.208] (unknown [50.136.155.142]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: sbruno@ignoranthack.me) by mail.ignoranthack.me (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 401EE1934F2; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 14:19:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 To: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <6189d48d3a178c4ebf501361c75de23f@triadic.us> Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-sparc64 From: Sean Bruno Message-ID: <563CB6FC.209@freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 06:19:40 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6189d48d3a178c4ebf501361c75de23f@triadic.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 14:19:43 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 11/06/15 01:18, alexmcwhirter@triadic.us wrote: > So is the problem in question the lack of being able to use > clang/llvm? Or that newer hardware is unsupported? sparc64 supports > sun4u which is most boxes, Fujitsu Sparc64 boxes also work quite > well. The only thing really missing is sun4v and a few drivers here > and there. OpenBSD has support for almost all of the newer > Sun/Oracle boxes, which shouldn't bee too hard to port over. > > http://www.openbsd.org/sparc64.html > > Because of the lack of sun4v support i have moved over to a custom > illumos distro, but one of the things im working on there is to > replace gcc with clang/llvm. If it means saving the sparc64 port i > will gladly move some of my work over to freebsd. problem 1. the base clang/llvm doesn't support the FreeBSD sparc64 target. This needs work, and hey, if someone wants to spend the time to get things working, great. Let's move on it and modernize the target. problem 2. lack of development hardware in the FreeBSD project. I'm not asking for people to buy the FreeBSD project 10-15 year old sparc hardware and send it to us. We don't want it. If there is a push to modernize support for Sparc machines, we can talk about aquiring new machines and racking them up as reference boxes. If there are people interested in modernizing CPU support, by all means, move forward and do it. Don't let me stop you. sean p.s. if someone wants to take a stab at resurrecting qemu-user-static support for sparc64 so portmgr can build tier-2 packages like we do for mips/arm, please take a look at https://github.com/seanbruno/qemu-bsd-user/tree/bsd-user -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQF8BAEBCgBmBQJWPLb5XxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRCQUFENDYzMkU3MTIxREU4RDIwOTk3REQx MjAxRUZDQTFFNzI3RTY0AAoJEBIB78oecn5kaf4H/0C3rHmnFv3dtAyYwEzX4vLy erkQ1MD42czuLuSCcywO/P82u4ytV4Tsc/4A7uJvabQfanZF4s8rBPDdGoodIslO gZhvtMxhojueqtcvZjcLCBX5v3iu0aDL8w6PAafm0QvUUUNft42jbw+nD8l6xF+5 pPpKB0OK6KS3beuSqRGqfLIwAGSSXKjkktm3WaPEHu6N+WNCnA/kPMdLl2VTD7fU SOwkeoE5ItWgeHwQ1V6fr/kbRxJ+QYUxSeN5XeFzkQGM58GlkT2dhjL/y6feU6AO MlvOJhax03+uOGR4sxQOJ+F5ndWPbuZ+Lk64eVQiHoW6nbpKtuAwrAzehD9lg0w= =jW6R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Fri Nov 6 20:24:48 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99CDEA28723; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 20:24:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexmcwhirter@triadic.us) Received: from SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (smtp.tech.triadic.us [98.102.61.98]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5943D1ADF; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 20:24:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexmcwhirter@triadic.us) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.128.0.32]) by SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD9D610406BC; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:17:38 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at Tech.Triadic.US Received: from SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US ([IPv6:::ffff:10.128.0.24]) by localhost (Milter1.Tech.Triadic.US [IPv6:::ffff:10.128.0.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id ykEH3pK7-65T; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:17:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from webmail.tech.triadic.us (unknown [10.128.0.56]) by SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9CACE1040695; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:17:37 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 15:17:37 -0500 From: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us To: Sean Bruno Cc: freebsd-sparc64 , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 In-Reply-To: <563CB6FC.209@freebsd.org> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <6189d48d3a178c4ebf501361c75de23f@triadic.us> <563CB6FC.209@freebsd.org> Message-ID: <59db1eecc713a9af58342f41b700dfd3@triadic.us> X-Sender: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.0.5 X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 20:24:48 -0000 On 2015-11-06 09:19, Sean Bruno wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > > > On 11/06/15 01:18, alexmcwhirter@triadic.us wrote: >> So is the problem in question the lack of being able to use >> clang/llvm? Or that newer hardware is unsupported? sparc64 supports >> sun4u which is most boxes, Fujitsu Sparc64 boxes also work quite >> well. The only thing really missing is sun4v and a few drivers here >> and there. OpenBSD has support for almost all of the newer >> Sun/Oracle boxes, which shouldn't bee too hard to port over. >> >> http://www.openbsd.org/sparc64.html >> >> Because of the lack of sun4v support i have moved over to a custom >> illumos distro, but one of the things im working on there is to >> replace gcc with clang/llvm. If it means saving the sparc64 port i >> will gladly move some of my work over to freebsd. > > problem 1. the base clang/llvm doesn't support the FreeBSD sparc64 > target. This needs work, and hey, if someone wants to spend the time > to get things working, great. Let's move on it and modernize the > target. > > problem 2. lack of development hardware in the FreeBSD project. I'm > not asking for people to buy the FreeBSD project 10-15 year old sparc > hardware and send it to us. We don't want it. If there is a push to > modernize support for Sparc machines, we can talk about aquiring new > machines and racking them up as reference boxes. If there are people > interested in modernizing CPU support, by all means, move forward and > do it. Don't let me stop you. > > sean > > p.s. if someone wants to take a stab at resurrecting qemu-user-static > support for sparc64 so portmgr can build tier-2 packages like we do > for mips/arm, please take a look at > https://github.com/seanbruno/qemu-bsd-user/tree/bsd-user > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2 > > iQF8BAEBCgBmBQJWPLb5XxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w > ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRCQUFENDYzMkU3MTIxREU4RDIwOTk3REQx > MjAxRUZDQTFFNzI3RTY0AAoJEBIB78oecn5kaf4H/0C3rHmnFv3dtAyYwEzX4vLy > erkQ1MD42czuLuSCcywO/P82u4ytV4Tsc/4A7uJvabQfanZF4s8rBPDdGoodIslO > gZhvtMxhojueqtcvZjcLCBX5v3iu0aDL8w6PAafm0QvUUUNft42jbw+nD8l6xF+5 > pPpKB0OK6KS3beuSqRGqfLIwAGSSXKjkktm3WaPEHu6N+WNCnA/kPMdLl2VTD7fU > SOwkeoE5ItWgeHwQ1V6fr/kbRxJ+QYUxSeN5XeFzkQGM58GlkT2dhjL/y6feU6AO > MlvOJhax03+uOGR4sxQOJ+F5ndWPbuZ+Lk64eVQiHoW6nbpKtuAwrAzehD9lg0w= > =jW6R > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" As for the first issue, ill take a look a see what im actually dealing with. Like i said, i'm working clang/llvm for illumos but that's an entirely different beast. I have access to quite a lot of sparc gear. V215, T1000, T5120, M4000, E6K, Netra X1, and a few more. I don't mind hosting a couple of them if anyone in interested in doing some work on them. From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Fri Nov 6 20:35:34 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A294CA28928; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 20:35:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (gate2.funkthat.com [208.87.223.18]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gold.funkthat.com", Issuer "gold.funkthat.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A0A51EEA; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 20:35:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gold.funkthat.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id tA6KZRcT024233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 6 Nov 2015 12:35:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by gold.funkthat.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id tA6KZRWf024232; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 12:35:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 12:35:27 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Sean Bruno Cc: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us, freebsd-sparc64 , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Message-ID: <20151106203527.GH65715@funkthat.com> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <6189d48d3a178c4ebf501361c75de23f@triadic.us> <563CB6FC.209@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <563CB6FC.209@freebsd.org> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 9.1-PRERELEASE amd64 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 54BA 873B 6515 3F10 9E88 9322 9CB1 8F74 6D3F A396 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ X-Resume: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/resume.html X-TipJar: bitcoin:13Qmb6AeTgQecazTWph4XasEsP7nGRbAPE X-to-the-FBI-CIA-and-NSA: HI! HOW YA DOIN? can i haz chizburger? User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (gold.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 06 Nov 2015 12:35:27 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 20:35:34 -0000 Sean Bruno wrote this message on Fri, Nov 06, 2015 at 06:19 -0800: > problem 1. the base clang/llvm doesn't support the FreeBSD sparc64 > target. This needs work, and hey, if someone wants to spend the time > to get things working, great. Let's move on it and modernize the target. We've had support for sparc64 in base clang/llvm for close to a year.. The problem isn't clang, the problem is making our kernel sources work with it... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not." From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Fri Nov 6 20:42:57 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2DC4A28AC9; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 20:42:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexmcwhirter@triadic.us) Received: from SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (smtp.tech.triadic.us [98.102.61.98]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAF1A14EE; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 20:42:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexmcwhirter@triadic.us) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.128.0.32]) by SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F0310406BC; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:35:48 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at Tech.Triadic.US Received: from SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US ([IPv6:::ffff:10.128.0.24]) by localhost (Milter1.Tech.Triadic.US [IPv6:::ffff:10.128.0.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id gXXZwBsAIjPW; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:35:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from webmail.tech.triadic.us (unknown [10.128.0.56]) by SMTP.Tech.Triadic.US (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 502671040695; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:35:48 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 15:35:48 -0500 From: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: Sean Bruno , freebsd-sparc64 , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 In-Reply-To: <20151106203527.GH65715@funkthat.com> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <6189d48d3a178c4ebf501361c75de23f@triadic.us> <563CB6FC.209@freebsd.org> <20151106203527.GH65715@funkthat.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: alexmcwhirter@triadic.us User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.0.5 X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 20:42:57 -0000 On 2015-11-06 15:35, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Sean Bruno wrote this message on Fri, Nov 06, 2015 at 06:19 -0800: >> problem 1. the base clang/llvm doesn't support the FreeBSD sparc64 >> target. This needs work, and hey, if someone wants to spend the time >> to get things working, great. Let's move on it and modernize the >> target. > > We've had support for sparc64 in base clang/llvm for close to a year.. > The problem isn't clang, the problem is making our kernel sources work > with it... The same is true for illumos, i can build clang/llvm and use it with no issues for userland stuff, but the core system needs work to build correctly. From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Sat Nov 7 08:03:00 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61087A2841D; Sat, 7 Nov 2015 08:03:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rdivacky@vlakno.cz) Received: from vlakno.cz (mail.vlakno.cz [91.217.96.224]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 245181FE9; Sat, 7 Nov 2015 08:02:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rdivacky@vlakno.cz) Received: by vlakno.cz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 6579E1E209B1; Sat, 7 Nov 2015 09:00:45 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=vlakno.cz; s=mail; t=1446883245; bh=+vEw5YX6ADCL8o1dYKaNXeTt3uLE65jAUU37VuTbNKQ=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=A9h7g8fTkSPSiImJHO8O5vu7AfZ7nGCD0oDuQ/C5L71MuU71KRcOwCuyqaWqDFE2U xNXDagMT7Itzm0jSwcXUuM2Bv09GtB8ITsYZFfWHLg7XYa1wgOVVTS1gJ+6PC4QD70 RxYH1Z5AsZuA6chKo7+p1jG9Ue84F8aFEWxfvW04= Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2015 09:00:45 +0100 From: Roman Divacky To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: Sean Bruno , alexmcwhirter@triadic.us, freebsd-sparc64 , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Message-ID: <20151107080045.GA4586@vlakno.cz> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> <20151105232431.GE31432@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <6189d48d3a178c4ebf501361c75de23f@triadic.us> <563CB6FC.209@freebsd.org> <20151106203527.GH65715@funkthat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20151106203527.GH65715@funkthat.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2015 08:03:00 -0000 On Fri, Nov 06, 2015 at 12:35:27PM -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Sean Bruno wrote this message on Fri, Nov 06, 2015 at 06:19 -0800: > > problem 1. the base clang/llvm doesn't support the FreeBSD sparc64 > > target. This needs work, and hey, if someone wants to spend the time > > to get things working, great. Let's move on it and modernize the target. > > We've had support for sparc64 in base clang/llvm for close to a year.. > The problem isn't clang, the problem is making our kernel sources work > with it... LLVM still lacks some (many?) things needed to compile FreeBSD kernel. If nothing else, at least this patch (http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-commits/Week-of-Mon-20141215/248852.html) is needed. There's also different frame size and probably some other issues. Roman