From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Wed Nov 4 21:56:58 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B5BA2621B; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 21:56:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vps.rulingia.com (vps.rulingia.com [103.243.244.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vps.rulingia.com", Issuer "CAcert Class 3 Root" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55DF111AC; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 21:56:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from server.rulingia.com (c220-239-242-83.belrs5.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.242.83]) by vps.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id tA4LiwQV080950 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:45:06 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id tA4Liqs8021888 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:44:52 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id tA4Lip4Y021887; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:44:51 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:44:51 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Sean Bruno Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Message-ID: <20151104214451.GF47630@server.rulingia.com> References: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="1LKvkjL3sHcu1TtY" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <563A5893.1030607@freebsd.org> X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded STARTTLS authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (vps.rulingia.com [103.243.244.15]); Thu, 05 Nov 2015 08:45:06 +1100 (AEDT) X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 21:56:58 -0000 --1LKvkjL3sHcu1TtY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [Adding sparc64] On 2015-Nov-04 11:12:19 -0800, Sean Bruno wrote: >So here's the thing, Sparc64 is *just* barely alive in FreeBSD. > >There is exactly 1 Sparc64 machine as a ref box being hosted at Yahoo >for the project. No new hardware is on the horizon. None of the newer >Sparc64 processors have been tested to work on FreeBSD and nobody is >clamoring to get them working. > >We're moving into a post-gcc base system now, and sparc64 is the obvious >"odd arch" here. There's activity to get MIPS moved to clang and active >work to get powerpc moved fully to clang. Leaving Sparc64 in base, >requires someone to either make clang DTRT or keep gcc 4.2.1-ish alive. I don't think the latter is an option. Doing so means that the entire machine-independent codebase needs to be compilable with gcc 4.2.1, blocking the use of any new feature. IMHO, this should be around the other way: FreeBSD 11.x will require all supported architectures to be buildable with clang. http://llvm.org/releases/3.5.0/docs/ReleaseNotes.html states that clang can self-host on FreeBSD/Sparc64 so this doesn't seem an unreasonable requirement. >I have asked around for help getting the Sparc64 qemu-bsd-user binary >working so I could at a minimum build packages, and I have gotten no >feedback from folks. So the only option here is to resurrect sparc64 >machines somewhere and start up builds on real hardware. > >Let's just call it what it is, a dead end of the technology tree. >I move that we do NOT produce 11.0 versions for Sparc64 and it should be >dropped from the tree. I agree. Even if the compiler issues are resolved, there doesn't appear to be the critical mass within the Project to keep the architecture alive. I also feel that no 11.0 FreeBSD/sparc64 makes much more sense than axing support just after 11.0 - if we release 11.0 on sparc64, we are pretty much committed to supporting sparc64 for the life of the 11.x branch and supporting an orphaned architechure for that long is going to be extremely painful. OTOH, I feel it's reasonable for the code to not be axed until after 11.0 in case there's a sufficient groundswell of support to reverse the deprecation decision. Taking the FreeBSD/alpha deprecation as a precedent, deprecation was officially announced in May 2006: https://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=3D14637+0+archive/2006/freebs= d-alpha/20060514.freebsd-alpha with the website updated a couple of months later: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/doc/head/en_US.ISO8859-1/htdocs/platforms/alpha.= xml?revision=3D28282 and the family tree shows: FreeBSD 6.0 2005-11-01 [FBD] FreeBSD 6.1 2006-05-08 [FBD] FreeBSD 5.5 2006-05-25 [FBD] FreeBSD 6.2 2007-01-15 [FBD] FreeBSD 6.3 2008-01-18 [FBD] FreeBSD 7.0 2008-02-27 [FBD] --=20 Peter Jeremy --1LKvkjL3sHcu1TtY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJWOnxSXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFRUIyOTg2QzMwNjcxRTc0RTY1QzIyN0Ux NkE1OTdBMEU0QTIwQjM0AAoJEBall6Dkogs0ueIP/jceAT5/48pkBAdTI8HIAYHD CouCFuNJG7j0Wk5PI9RKVYBacu3dYOhubk6XbRe1jEGtq38skOzdYmZp8eWdXr0b iulDBuDw5WUq4okkuXnP3REUuorbKef+4vvSWXa3yPg2+Q7I9uF+BhjCR736vniW kzZAnRg25OtE3Duqs7lMmPY94lx0NkEPc1QAUhwDLJmLrb77zJtz9VRyeZ3c6+Lc /GB7lE3ouc3DtIqot72k9dnOWDUaNx2+QNwQiHyhtiC8Jzm1SVvCq5QXDB17vruy JvmdCCM8moTfcABJN+pjwDm+pvIYe97N72eyk4Udn5umYQHgJHzgEzAlcZJ500Yw L/OA6vrGM4paJxVdSP2IQa5a5TVz3IEFhnm+a51BD7JS7LZmIxEJuZL9GBxEYZa/ PVPLdaJNGyIBmG4kxcP+/Plwu3gYL2ZN2GvoMq+bEy+Yb+PAljSegugcsY2mMY0+ BK5WBd/D0g47Bw4U4KatwDoO0V/We9m1JCFd1eNNblsLnSuomkSs+ngMkofeLSa+ e4OkbKaJ8cO8/bVyqVbeOWJ071E+t8ksZDIPtFf51uU0A+0xEB/TJBXfphzC/Sph i7sJ+M6rNWiVerXTGdEKK7JFjgbcrpXBdoP9450pPeslVdwpTShZzRmQfyH5RK5O 5S2OaNK+Ko0Chrnaj4nQ =0Yyn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1LKvkjL3sHcu1TtY--