From owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sun Jul 24 00:40:11 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2B00B9837A for ; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 00:40:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD4181EE8 for ; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 00:40:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id DCA17B98379; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 00:40:11 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: chat@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC4FBB98378 for ; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 00:40:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from www.lemis.com (www.lemis.com [208.86.226.86]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB1641EE7; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 00:40:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from eureka.lemis.com (www.lemis.com [208.86.226.86]) by www.lemis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD1CE1B72802; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 00:31:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eureka.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 6CC4244948D; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 10:31:15 +1000 (AEST) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 10:31:15 +1000 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: Pedro Giffuni , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What Larry McVoy (bitkeeper) got wrong .... Message-ID: <20160724003115.GY78278@eureka.lemis.com> References: <44e4450e-8dbb-f401-bd5c-df503f7a4ef8@FreeBSD.org> <868twsqn1a.fsf@desk.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vS2hnRoLMmJ4tslQ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <868twsqn1a.fsf@desk.des.no> Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-3-5346-1370, +61-3-5309-0418 Mobile: 0401 265 606. Use only as instructed. WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 00:40:12 -0000 --vS2hnRoLMmJ4tslQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Saturday, 23 July 2016 at 19:31:13 +0200, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > Pedro Giffuni writes: >> I was in the process of preparing a port of bitkeeper and I found this: >> >> https://github.com/bitkeeper-scm/bitkeeper >> >> "The BitKeeper history needs to be written up but the short version is >> that it happened because Larry wanted to help Linux not turn into a >> bunch of splintered factions like 386BSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, >> DragonFlyBSD, etc. He saw that the problem was one of tooling. ..." > > This may be poorly written, but what they're trying to say is that there > was a serious risk of someone forking Linux solely because they were > tired of the Linus bottleneck, and a DVCS would help avoid that. That's > not particularly shocking. I'm left wondering about the accuracy of the statement, though. I didn't think that this was the reason lm wrote Bitkeeper. I contacted him, but he wasn't much help. > Here's a real gem, though: "They stayed in it for three more years > before moving to Git because BitKeeper wasn't open source." Because > clearly, McVoy throwing a hissy fit and revoking their license had > nothing to do with it. I think this is a nice way of glossing over the ugly facts. I don't see that it's wrong. Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. Finger grog@FreeBSD.org for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA --vS2hnRoLMmJ4tslQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAleUDFMACgkQIubykFB6QiOtugCfWhgEBsWZTALvqqrLQRWOxGJG 7+AAn3fFKMhCgGerk2V1L8L/nNXCjBAP =MnTx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vS2hnRoLMmJ4tslQ-- From owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sun Jul 24 00:49:05 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C40BB98543 for ; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 00:49:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jasoncwells@fastmail.com) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D75D31311 for ; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 00:49:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jasoncwells@fastmail.com) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3727C203D0 for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2016 20:49:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 23 Jul 2016 20:49:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.com; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-sasl-enc :x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=q46APyv0filX36iWdUjZxtwQbWo=; b=DHCe2k +TFvCGY6322gRIs6hGkY9Udm/UVvbpIgxG1P3uJi/gL8/5qkY+fK6825u6po2mhF LDxjIS6WhUXcBrwMqr/f1P2UdI23VkT/ZwhlH9tMjXGiTiNFxF6DOM0oj08iXEz0 xaahcuEg2TSnL7dYG5FA9/u5D0OrAGC62gtOY= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=q46APyv0filX36i WdUjZxtwQbWo=; b=GesH2wdP7yutPdHxWIUXs5GvqTXaV7xiABywJj0AvvScnHa SoR/6jpURbu9ZGihaOuJXQo9ocAZ+5PtF4mO37Ype1HOzAwZ/pPLQgcXGzOsAWg9 ndzrBG7Wp7UYoX9pl+AsGp78N2fhPFBMomzEWAEuMwXZOpmv5hOHqKSv1tlA= X-Sasl-enc: hwOqhnIhJjYrTC6yrRaifdD+UCPNtUprBrJU76CKtyEY 1469321342 Received: from [192.168.1.195] (71-217-108-76.tukw.qwest.net [71.217.108.76]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D0187F29E1 for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2016 20:49:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: What Larry McVoy (bitkeeper) got wrong .... To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <44e4450e-8dbb-f401-bd5c-df503f7a4ef8@FreeBSD.org> <868twsqn1a.fsf@desk.des.no> <20160724003115.GY78278@eureka.lemis.com> From: "Jason C. Wells" Message-ID: <44ceaa97-028e-37ca-2a66-2e211bc5d3db@fastmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 17:48:58 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20160724003115.GY78278@eureka.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 00:49:05 -0000 I'm just excited to see a little traffic on -chat. Where'd everybody go? Regards, Jason C. Wells From owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sun Jul 24 06:58:28 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE72B9B782 for ; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 06:58:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pipfstarrd@openmailbox.org) Received: from mail2.openmailbox.org (mail2.openmailbox.org [62.4.1.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E06C1D21 for ; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 06:58:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pipfstarrd@openmailbox.org) Received: by mail2.openmailbox.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 60775108124; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 08:58:18 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=openmailbox.org; s=openmailbox; t=1469343498; bh=2oFsY8PtaAS/kYEiEhvgdvZSfBhXnx/L/t4DbN26G80=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=dosOj214pPWY5VtjTDTd/az0Sjn+b+jo4g0AjGeCQIH95Nhrv6fcnfyVF0SNDLPZD ycd7TtkoDaXjVPV/tO4ROY0ZSXSeLQ8MDbpM2UPkIRzbR3qBn0HIsLwbsfJJF+OoWL 9SpXzQ0M0X7GQCSAjDcxs9NDVF1CLqhRybWt97tQ= X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on h4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Subject: Re: What Larry McVoy (bitkeeper) got wrong .... DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=openmailbox.org; s=openmailbox; t=1469343498; bh=2oFsY8PtaAS/kYEiEhvgdvZSfBhXnx/L/t4DbN26G80=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=dosOj214pPWY5VtjTDTd/az0Sjn+b+jo4g0AjGeCQIH95Nhrv6fcnfyVF0SNDLPZD ycd7TtkoDaXjVPV/tO4ROY0ZSXSeLQ8MDbpM2UPkIRzbR3qBn0HIsLwbsfJJF+OoWL 9SpXzQ0M0X7GQCSAjDcxs9NDVF1CLqhRybWt97tQ= To: "Jason C. Wells" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <44e4450e-8dbb-f401-bd5c-df503f7a4ef8@FreeBSD.org> <868twsqn1a.fsf@desk.des.no> <20160724003115.GY78278@eureka.lemis.com> <44ceaa97-028e-37ca-2a66-2e211bc5d3db@fastmail.com> From: twilight Message-ID: Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 06:55:32 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <44ceaa97-028e-37ca-2a66-2e211bc5d3db@fastmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 06:58:28 -0000 To IRC, maybe? Chatting over e-mail is, kinda, funny. Lags are too big. On 24.07.2016 00:48, Jason C. Wells wrote: > I'm just excited to see a little traffic on -chat. Where'd everybody go? > > Regards, > Jason C. Wells > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Cheers~ PGP key fingerprint: 07B3 2177 3E27 BF41 DC65 CC95 BDA8 88F1 E9F9 CEEF You can retrieve my public key at pgp.mit.edu. From owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sun Jul 24 07:27:59 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0AC4B9BED1 for ; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 07:27:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrya@shoalhaven.nsw.gov.au) Received: from mx3.shoalhaven.nsw.gov.au (mx3.shoalhaven.nsw.gov.au [203.30.193.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75DD51873 for ; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 07:27:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrya@shoalhaven.nsw.gov.au) Received: from mx3.shoalhaven.nsw.gov.au (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Email Security Appliance) with SMTP id D76DBCEBC0_7946CACB; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 07:22:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from HERMES.scc.shoalhaven.nsw.gov.au (unknown [192.168.10.244]) by mx3.shoalhaven.nsw.gov.au (Sophos Email Appliance) with ESMTP id 77D89CC38F_7946CABF; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 07:22:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from HERMES.scc.shoalhaven.nsw.gov.au ([::1]) by HERMES.scc.shoalhaven.nsw.gov.au ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 17:22:18 +1000 From: Andrew Perry To: twilight , "Jason C. Wells" , "freebsd-chat@freebsd.org" Subject: RE: What Larry McVoy (bitkeeper) got wrong .... Thread-Topic: What Larry McVoy (bitkeeper) got wrong .... Thread-Index: AQHR42++Vy6cxU7y3kCeHMgVlbl1H6AmSUPa///NmYCAAATzAIAAZmsAgACtsTo= Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 07:22:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <44e4450e-8dbb-f401-bd5c-df503f7a4ef8@FreeBSD.org> <868twsqn1a.fsf@desk.des.no> <20160724003115.GY78278@eureka.lemis.com> <44ceaa97-028e-37ca-2a66-2e211bc5d3db@fastmail.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-AU, en-US Content-Language: en-AU X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.242.2.2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 07:27:59 -0000 funny, I actually unsubscribed from chat (and others) because I was getting= too much traffic. At the time I couldn't deal with it (long story, divorce= and messy real life stuff). I was surprised when I recently resubscribed a= nd didn't get any messages. I thought I'd stuffed up. the freebsd irc channel on freenode gets a little action, but it's not the = same.=20 too many people expect an instant response on irc, but it can be just as la= ggy as email I wonder if there's somewhere else people are hanging out and chatting :-) ________________________________________ From: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org [owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org] on be= half of twilight [pipfstarrd@openmailbox.org] Sent: Sunday, 24 July 2016 4:55 PM To: Jason C. Wells; freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What Larry McVoy (bitkeeper) got wrong .... To IRC, maybe? Chatting over e-mail is, kinda, funny. Lags are too big. On 24.07.2016 00:48, Jason C. Wells wrote: > I'm just excited to see a little traffic on -chat. Where'd everybody go? > > Regards, > Jason C. Wells > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Cheers~ PGP key fingerprint: 07B3 2177 3E27 BF41 DC65 CC95 BDA8 88F1 E9F9 CEEF You can retrieve my public key at pgp.mit.edu. _______________________________________________ freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" This message may contain both confidential and privileged information inten= ded only for the addressee named above. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediat= ely then destroy the original message. From owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mon Jul 25 02:48:11 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F482BA4A79 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 02:48:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd_atog@comcast.net) Received: from resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Organization Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 520DB1332 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 02:48:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd_atog@comcast.net) Received: from resomta-ch2-13v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.109]) by resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id RVwAbF9DQlSxsRVwAbox7A; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 02:48:10 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1469414890; bh=dy7hyDnoY2jma4iGlYb56y1TF3rOE1nzAzyLGH3Akmg=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=SXcaWcePY/KBH5lVcVwi4EQ3sRjRw2Xu+e2RxbRBXYWgYayefLWfj/SdACaIP9biT DbOAqnz6vSBkyWv/Y/OjTziMKXtppdhmWU61TgrWgD6zTlsrmidRGdqOYE2+J/oY0/ 0xIn6qFW6p6fNlq4aFH8bHkXNXlJNAbIiTWB+Tkrj1OrxVq+asKw8ktDhNQCCiyp/V 5JfEbTB1ewWQEqdn63E0973V5MGmTzMX+N8Igr1sfbgfB9K4eDXX5kkpcfpDQwOCG+ cP7lav0SeVWojC6gIytS89faGSBLq67kM8S28+aM6xNN3vG/Cfl9AvvwWql4Dd9jnP UxEo6I1T1J5QA== Received: from KoggyBSD.org ([68.60.93.182]) by comcast with SMTP id RVw8baTEDDgDkRVw9b2I9A; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 02:48:09 +0000 Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 22:47:59 -0400 From: Allen To: "freebsd-chat@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: What Larry McVoy (bitkeeper) got wrong .... Message-ID: <20160724224759.1b93545b@KoggyBSD.org> In-Reply-To: References: <44e4450e-8dbb-f401-bd5c-df503f7a4ef8@FreeBSD.org> <868twsqn1a.fsf@desk.des.no> <20160724003115.GY78278@eureka.lemis.com> <44ceaa97-028e-37ca-2a66-2e211bc5d3db@fastmail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.13.2 (GTK+ 2.24.29; i386-portbld-freebsd10.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfEcLcjlKlu7ZLhyUp2nLa/l3AKJT79rLTwrslBt68fUXR5SZaGFCi2EZWYvGZrvr9V810bAbEbRQLtc1cPHP8XnJu6jPFdXnA9mRziTOco7pSA3zyGcK EHIkIsf7GUxSdbRJDZMAXaHcVU/JX6mYQ9c7WJZ/82jDCZy+8i+wXbQd X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 02:48:11 -0000 On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 07:22:18 +0000 Andrew Perry wrote: > funny, I actually unsubscribed from chat (and others) because I was > getting too much traffic. At the time I couldn't deal with it (long > story, divorce and messy real life stuff). I was surprised when I > recently resubscribed and didn't get any messages. I thought I'd > stuffed up. Personally I prefer the FreeBSD-Chat Mailing List over IRC, but that's just simply my own personal preference. I'v been using this list on and off for a very long time, but eventually my situation would after a while change to where I had no time for Mailing Lists, but I'm glad I'm back on here. It does help that I'm finally using FreeBSD as my main Desktop now though. ;) I've been using FreeBSD on and off since 4.0-RELEASE. I actually still remember wayyyyy back then; I had only owned a Computer for like a year or so at the time, and I was lucky enough to have some friends that were Hackers. I thought that was amazing and I liked the idea that I could do things with a Computer that could eventually lead to a career, and the fact that I enjoyed doing it helped a lot too lol. I was talking with my at the time best friend, and he had been using Computers for years, and I was just starting out, and didn't know much of anything. I had a crappy PC with Windows 95 on it, and one night, I was kinda drunk, and I accidentally destroyed it lol. I was working at the time, so I did have a pay check coming in even though I still lived with my Mom, and my main outgoing expense at that time, was my Horror Movie Collection, and my CD Collection lol. So I went the very next day to Best Buy, and picked out a new Computer. It was early 2,000 and it was the first time I had ever purchased a Computer for myself, and I ended up buying an HP Pavilion Computer, and it came with Windows 98 SE, 128 MBs of RAM, and a very odd 42.9 GB HD. It was only 42.9 GBs on Windows though; On Linux it was 43 GBs. I still don't think I've ever seen another HD that was THAT size lol. But anyway, I was starting to learn that you could run an Operating System on your Computer that wasn't Windows. Remember I'm just starting out at this point and knew nothing. Anyway, I asked some friends of mine online what they used, and a friend of mine said he ran Linux. I knew nothing about Linux, so I looked it up, and starting reading. That was when I first heard about Unix, and BSD, and so on. My at the time best friend was better with Computers than I was at the time, and he LOVED Unix. Between my buddy saying he ran Linux and my friend saying that Unix was a good OS for Hacking (He said it didn't get in the way, and that for Programming, there was nothing better) so I took those as fairly strong recommendations. So anyway, my friend would come over, and we would discuss Computer stuff all day and all night long, and one day, I saw a book at the book store I went to sometimes, called "Teach yourself Linux in 24 Hours". It came with a CD-ROM as well, and it had Caldera Open Linux 2.2 on it. I bought the book, and started reading. Not too long after that, I still hadn't actually installed Linux on anything yet, and my friend wanted to point out to me that Linux was good, but it wasn't actually Unix. He made sure I knew the difference between "Unix Like" and "Unix". Lol. Anyway, I was at Best Buy with my Mom, and as we're walking through the store, I see the Computer Section coming up where the Software was. As we're walking up, I see this thing called the "BSD Powerpak" and I'd never seen it before. I had heard of FreeBSD before from my online reading, and I knew a little about it, and I'd just never seen it before in a store. I was actually kind of surprised. I grabbed it off the shelf and took a look at the box, and I ended up buying it. It came with the book "The Complete FreeBSD, 3rd Edition" and it came with 10 CD-ROMs; 4 FreeBSD Installation CDs, and 6 FreeBSD Tool Kit CD-ROMs. When I got home, I opened it up and started reading about FreeBSD. As I said before, I did know what FreeBSD, sort of, and I had heard of it from reading online about Linux and Unix, and I was just really Happy that I could find this boxed set I'd found. Of course, none of that could prepare me for what I was going to experience either lol. Can you guys imagine? Someone who'd owned a Computer for less than one year, knows almost nothing about Computers let alone Unix, and has yet to actually install Linux, or any other OS for that matter, and now trying to get FreeBSD up and running? My friend that came over all the time and talked Computers with me, started checking out the box it came in, and he seemed pretty impressed with it too. It took me a while before I managed to get FreeBSD installed; Not because the installer was particularly hard to use or anything, I just simply didn't have the skills. I'd never even installed Windows or DOS before. So I knew literally nothing. After a while, with lots of practice, and lots of re-installs of Windows 98 SE on that Computer, I started to get the hang of how to install an OS. My Computer came with Re-Installation CDs instead of Windows Installation CDs. The Tower / Case my Computer had, had a little CD-ROM holding area on the very top of it so that you could put those CDs in there, and then, if you ever needed them, you would just pop the first one in, reboot, and it would allow you to wipe the Drive, and install Windows, and everything else the Computer came with (Such as Drivers, Programs, and things like that). Eventually I got really good with installing OSs, and I also had another breakthrough; I finally got a High Speed Internet Connection! Before this, I had Dial Up, and nothing else, and not only that, but the Modem my Computer came with, was a POS WinModem, and it wouldn't even work with the copy of Windows 2,000 Professional that I'd bought. When I got a little better at Computers, and a little better at Hardware, I eventually took it out, and was surprised to see that my little WinModem, was also my Sound Card! I'd never seen Hardware like this before, but it was for sure weird. I eventually had bought a new Sound Card, after installing SuSE Linux 8.1 Professional. I'd bought SuSE 8.1 Professional at that same Best Buy that I had bought the FreeBSD Powerpak at, and I could never get online with Linux. I'd by this time bought more versions of Linux to play with, but no matter what, for some reason, there were two things that always prevented me from sticking with Linux; Sound Card issues, because of the Sound Card / WinModem combo that I just mentioned, and of course, getting online. I bought a Sound Blaster! Sound Card at Best Buy, and given my limited know how at the time, I paid for them to install it for me as well. Once I had a REAL Sound Card, I could finally get sound in an OS that wasn't Windows 98 SE, which meant now, all I had to do, was get online with High Speed, and I could finally use a NIC, and use another OS. After a while, and saving up money, I managed to finally afford to get a Cable Internet Connection. The day Comcast came to finally install it, I wasn't home because I was at work, and the girl they sent to do it, was a moron. When I got home, the phone call I had gotten at work, was making more sense... My Mom called me at work, and said the girl was "Trying to delete System Files so that the OS would re-install them"... I knew that didn't sound right, and sure enough, it didn't work. I got home that night from work, and had to re-install Windows. Again. Finally, Comcast sent two other techs to the house to install our connection. I told the guys that showed up what happened, and they were in shock. The main guy that was there, sent his co-worker out to their van to grab me a NIC since the girl who showed up to install before, had thrown mine in the Trash, because "She couldn't get it working". He said that the girl they sent, only kept her job because she was pretty, and that she didn't really know anything about anything. He got a new NIC installed in my Computer, and set up the Cable Modem, and got it working finally, and after that. I no longer had any real reason not to use another OS. So I installed Partition Magic, set up some Partitions, and I got SuSE Linux 8.1 Professional installed, and got it online, and I got sound working. I had finally installed Linux and got it working on my Computer. I also installed Windows 2,000 Professional on it, that way I could Dual Boot between Windows and Linux. I kept Windows for games, and used Linux for more and more. The first time I tried installing FreeBSD though, I still didn't understand enough. so I stuck with Linux and Windows 2,000 Professional for a while. One day, I wanted to get FreeBSD up and running, so I started the installation. The Power Went out while I was installing. Like 40 times. Lol, it seems like I'm full of it there, but I'm serious; It started out with my Mom, who was using a Hair Dryer, and kept tripping the Breaker, and eventually I got her to stop that, and then, there were multiple outtages after that from the weather. Eventually, I got FreeBSD installed, and I knew nothing about it really. I'd read the book, but I didn't know much about using it. When I look back and think about all the time I spent like that, and doing what I did, I can't help but laugh; I mean, I was dumb, and I've learned a lot over these last however many years it's been, and I still have the box for my FreeBSD Powerpak, and the book, and the CDs too. I'm now running FreeBSD 10.1-RELEASE, and I've already gotten my FreeBSD 10.3-RELEASE DVD in the mail from the FreeBSD Mall. I've got so many books now I can't even count. I also buy BSD Magazine. I'm glad I stuck with FreeBSD though; I Love it. It's probably my favorite OS that I still use. Anyway, sorry about the length of this, but I felt that it would make more sense if you guys had some context to go on, and some history. -Allen From owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mon Jul 25 10:57:29 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A08D5BA3084 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 10:57:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaiwindle@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x22a.google.com (mail-wm0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30CFB1D96 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 10:57:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaiwindle@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id f65so130525186wmi.0 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 03:57:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=sMw1tGKOFlyDDhJ4S/4g6TGwM2aWS/EmG3rYXuNoMXI=; b=eEFBQpFl2vNZbtmZXaxLnFPLf/gEWDtkXb1gQ2InFmgDFg9T8T8j3WCaoPIV+EAKLY a3kzlsVdee0/GiS36plL7z6/eXTObg2W/Vy5ouR6b9BwG1XbDMuJrhrnE1t3VMB+Q8Gn Q0rN/AoiM60eXWAXTQQbv4FiMC40rBbAML0spProTAoLSNwvrjp6LPT7LwwMM8wqapIG uaY6W1bswmTQUpngqimgzp0+vpe9TdlgIWYZH1CEejU39m6DzgbtAT5rTUkxjUl74cQy cbX1AQ8ZQwuBCqfPmA0T26N+b4498gq3HaWBNZ4T/PLXynBZAiGijLMmpkQqgKjes23f F7fQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=sMw1tGKOFlyDDhJ4S/4g6TGwM2aWS/EmG3rYXuNoMXI=; b=eGy08oC7ybXSA3brfRaspYIumjzHObVfRRtz4Ii1e4IRkZV1ZaXlqqZpHN+AxqBLes Eudwcev6RQPrA7E9h5hpt14GH/7hqoNTf9Bv8Ecq9uHv5NFw7PsZHuxQZwXS/C31SEBk aXw1UZZ4IWYHtvzOf1VGxNrcSnltZD2aVA57jL51N4Xv9JN7mUC7ZVr/TKAz/CbRkbqj GcXGIyhk5TH+SHsVWPmR1EK6eYrEUOSxl5w2bQA0P/Vi3ojqX/BVBaOMYdDJ2L3SRQth Eza17fsEgExRuuLME1PXTl8hCjgAS0rzNZQ5yaswxNa3fLv4UvX0hfAwdhkBdWpP7wkk 0hqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tKDv8t8xVoLB5D+Bkcg6LWtlwqS+t1zhaU5tXE7553Rqpq7xuIhahq/pW9xPn7DCQ== X-Received: by 10.28.100.70 with SMTP id y67mr40002210wmb.23.1469444247181; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 03:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iMac.local ([86.188.129.1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 3sm26855904wms.1.2016.07.25.03.57.26 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Jul 2016 03:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 11:57:24 +0100 From: Kai Windle To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What Larry McVoy (bitkeeper) got wrong .... Message-ID: <20160725105724.GA6784@iMac.local> References: <44e4450e-8dbb-f401-bd5c-df503f7a4ef8@FreeBSD.org> <868twsqn1a.fsf@desk.des.no> <20160724003115.GY78278@eureka.lemis.com> <44ceaa97-028e-37ca-2a66-2e211bc5d3db@fastmail.com> <20160724224759.1b93545b@KoggyBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20160724224759.1b93545b@KoggyBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 10:57:29 -0000 Hello, I have seen people hanging around on IRC. Myself, I've been on both IRC and the mailing lists just because while I've got FreeBSD installed on my home computer I still don't know enough so I'm mainly around just to learn more than anything else. Since I don't have many questions or much to contribute to just yet I've not 'done' much in the way of chat (in fact this is my first 'chat'). I've no doubt that as time progresses I'll have many questions. But for now I'm happy to read the mailing lists when I can. I do enjoy stories like Andrew Perry wrote just makes me smile about the whole Windows 98 thing (so many memories of 28 day reinstall cycles) Since I'm at work right now I don't have the time to add my 'story' so hopefully one day I'll get the time and add my own to this thread. One thing I do find useful but sometimes confusing is BSDNow Podcast while I don't fully understand everything they talk about I do find it sometimes a good source of information for things I didn't know. Anyway enough from me. Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 10:47:59PM -0400, Allen wrote: > On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 07:22:18 +0000 > Andrew Perry wrote: > > > funny, I actually unsubscribed from chat (and others) because I was > > getting too much traffic. At the time I couldn't deal with it (long > > story, divorce and messy real life stuff). I was surprised when I > > recently resubscribed and didn't get any messages. I thought I'd > > stuffed up. > > Personally I prefer the FreeBSD-Chat Mailing List over IRC, but that's > just simply my own personal preference. I'v been using this list on > and off for a very long time, but eventually my situation would after a > while change to where I had no time for Mailing Lists, but I'm glad I'm > back on here. > > It does help that I'm finally using FreeBSD as my main Desktop now > though. ;) > > I've been using FreeBSD on and off since 4.0-RELEASE. I actually still > remember wayyyyy back then; I had only owned a Computer for like a year > or so at the time, and I was lucky enough to have some friends that > were Hackers. > > I thought that was amazing and I liked the idea that I could do things > with a Computer that could eventually lead to a career, and the fact > that I enjoyed doing it helped a lot too lol. > > I was talking with my at the time best friend, and he had been using > Computers for years, and I was just starting out, and didn't know much > of anything. > > I had a crappy PC with Windows 95 on it, and one night, I was kinda > drunk, and I accidentally destroyed it lol. I was working at the time, > so I did have a pay check coming in even though I still lived with my > Mom, and my main outgoing expense at that time, was my Horror Movie > Collection, and my CD Collection lol. So I went the very next day to > Best Buy, and picked out a new Computer. > > It was early 2,000 and it was the first time I had ever purchased a > Computer for myself, and I ended up buying an HP Pavilion Computer, and > it came with Windows 98 SE, 128 MBs of RAM, and a very odd 42.9 GB HD. > > It was only 42.9 GBs on Windows though; On Linux it was 43 GBs. I still > don't think I've ever seen another HD that was THAT size lol. > > But anyway, I was starting to learn that you could run an Operating > System on your Computer that wasn't Windows. Remember I'm just starting > out at this point and knew nothing. > > Anyway, I asked some friends of mine online what they used, and a > friend of mine said he ran Linux. I knew nothing about Linux, so I > looked it up, and starting reading. > > That was when I first heard about Unix, and BSD, and so on. My at the > time best friend was better with Computers than I was at the time, and > he LOVED Unix. > > Between my buddy saying he ran Linux and my friend saying that Unix was > a good OS for Hacking (He said it didn't get in the way, and that for > Programming, there was nothing better) so I took those as fairly strong > recommendations. > > So anyway, my friend would come over, and we would discuss Computer > stuff all day and all night long, and one day, I saw a book at the book > store I went to sometimes, called "Teach yourself Linux in 24 Hours". > > It came with a CD-ROM as well, and it had Caldera Open Linux 2.2 on it. > I bought the book, and started reading. > > Not too long after that, I still hadn't actually installed Linux on > anything yet, and my friend wanted to point out to me that Linux was > good, but it wasn't actually Unix. He made sure I knew the difference > between "Unix Like" and "Unix". Lol. > > Anyway, I was at Best Buy with my Mom, and as we're walking through the > store, I see the Computer Section coming up where the Software was. As > we're walking up, I see this thing called the "BSD Powerpak" and I'd > never seen it before. > > I had heard of FreeBSD before from my online reading, and I knew a > little about it, and I'd just never seen it before in a store. I was > actually kind of surprised. I grabbed it off the shelf and took a look > at the box, and I ended up buying it. > > It came with the book "The Complete FreeBSD, 3rd Edition" and it came > with 10 CD-ROMs; 4 FreeBSD Installation CDs, and 6 FreeBSD Tool Kit > CD-ROMs. > > When I got home, I opened it up and started reading about FreeBSD. As I > said before, I did know what FreeBSD, sort of, and I had heard of it > from reading online about Linux and Unix, and I was just really Happy > that I could find this boxed set I'd found. > > Of course, none of that could prepare me for what I was going to > experience either lol. Can you guys imagine? Someone who'd owned a > Computer for less than one year, knows almost nothing about Computers > let alone Unix, and has yet to actually install Linux, or any other OS > for that matter, and now trying to get FreeBSD up and running? > > My friend that came over all the time and talked Computers with me, > started checking out the box it came in, and he seemed pretty impressed > with it too. > > It took me a while before I managed to get FreeBSD installed; Not > because the installer was particularly hard to use or anything, I just > simply didn't have the skills. > > I'd never even installed Windows or DOS before. So I knew literally > nothing. > > After a while, with lots of practice, and lots of re-installs of > Windows 98 SE on that Computer, I started to get the hang of how to > install an OS. > > My Computer came with Re-Installation CDs instead of Windows > Installation CDs. The Tower / Case my Computer had, had a little CD-ROM > holding area on the very top of it so that you could put those CDs in > there, and then, if you ever needed them, you would just pop the first > one in, reboot, and it would allow you to wipe the Drive, and install > Windows, and everything else the Computer came with (Such as Drivers, > Programs, and things like that). > > Eventually I got really good with installing OSs, and I also had > another breakthrough; I finally got a High Speed Internet Connection! > > Before this, I had Dial Up, and nothing else, and not only that, but > the Modem my Computer came with, was a POS WinModem, and it wouldn't > even work with the copy of Windows 2,000 Professional that I'd bought. > > When I got a little better at Computers, and a little better at > Hardware, I eventually took it out, and was surprised to see that my > little WinModem, was also my Sound Card! > > I'd never seen Hardware like this before, but it was for sure weird. I > eventually had bought a new Sound Card, after installing SuSE Linux 8.1 > Professional. > > I'd bought SuSE 8.1 Professional at that same Best Buy that I had > bought the FreeBSD Powerpak at, and I could never get online with Linux. > > I'd by this time bought more versions of Linux to play with, but no > matter what, for some reason, there were two things that always > prevented me from sticking with Linux; Sound Card issues, because of > the Sound Card / WinModem combo that I just mentioned, and of course, > getting online. > > I bought a Sound Blaster! Sound Card at Best Buy, and given my limited > know how at the time, I paid for them to install it for me as well. > Once I had a REAL Sound Card, I could finally get sound in an OS that > wasn't Windows 98 SE, which meant now, all I had to do, was get online > with High Speed, and I could finally use a NIC, and use another OS. > > After a while, and saving up money, I managed to finally afford to get > a Cable Internet Connection. The day Comcast came to finally install > it, I wasn't home because I was at work, and the girl they sent to do > it, was a moron. > > When I got home, the phone call I had gotten at work, was making more > sense... My Mom called me at work, and said the girl was "Trying to > delete System Files so that the OS would re-install them"... > > I knew that didn't sound right, and sure enough, it didn't work. I got > home that night from work, and had to re-install Windows. Again. > > Finally, Comcast sent two other techs to the house to install our > connection. > > I told the guys that showed up what happened, and they were in shock. > The main guy that was there, sent his co-worker out to their van to > grab me a NIC since the girl who showed up to install before, had > thrown mine in the Trash, because "She couldn't get it working". He > said that the girl they sent, only kept her job because she was pretty, > and that she didn't really know anything about anything. > > He got a new NIC installed in my Computer, and set up the Cable Modem, > and got it working finally, and after that. I no longer had any real > reason not to use another OS. > > So I installed Partition Magic, set up some Partitions, and I got SuSE > Linux 8.1 Professional installed, and got it online, and I got sound > working. > > I had finally installed Linux and got it working on my Computer. I also > installed Windows 2,000 Professional on it, that way I could Dual Boot > between Windows and Linux. I kept Windows for games, and used Linux for > more and more. > > The first time I tried installing FreeBSD though, I still didn't > understand enough. so I stuck with Linux and Windows 2,000 Professional > for a while. One day, I wanted to get FreeBSD up and running, so I > started the installation. > > The Power Went out while I was installing. Like 40 times. Lol, it seems > like I'm full of it there, but I'm serious; It started out with my Mom, > who was using a Hair Dryer, and kept tripping the Breaker, and > eventually I got her to stop that, and then, there were multiple > outtages after that from the weather. > > Eventually, I got FreeBSD installed, and I knew nothing about it > really. I'd read the book, but I didn't know much about using it. When > I look back and think about all the time I spent like that, and doing > what I did, I can't help but laugh; I mean, I was dumb, and I've > learned a lot over these last however many years it's been, and I still > have the box for my FreeBSD Powerpak, and the book, and the CDs too. > > I'm now running FreeBSD 10.1-RELEASE, and I've already gotten my > FreeBSD 10.3-RELEASE DVD in the mail from the FreeBSD Mall. I've got so > many books now I can't even count. I also buy BSD Magazine. > > I'm glad I stuck with FreeBSD though; I Love it. It's probably my > favorite OS that I still use. > > Anyway, sorry about the length of this, but I felt that it would make > more sense if you guys had some context to go on, and some history. > > -Allen > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Kind Regards Kai Sent via Mutt Email Client / FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mon Jul 25 11:18:43 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B60CBA37A1 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 11:18:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaiwindle@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x232.google.com (mail-wm0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D168177B for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 11:18:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaiwindle@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x232.google.com with SMTP id q128so130686044wma.1 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 04:18:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=2fMiSLlRCO49PNvvQSTSmDJ/xyVPuyLTXKKgzcUOYjM=; b=OMUZvlWAIPtmaYVmTM8mi3xpWSAemkBgHjA+/ZO1q1y8Ji6v+IEMrktKIUPuZrmd21 A6MBoiGh6AeeAo4XN79wflJNQoj9KZ3OW+cjOaTxPFm7WF5Yl0JXyCFHX3t+tqQ3l746 Cyy9TrFdkYAxCuaoG0hKxMgIlqMRvJXALJXXOC+HBaerZrqg4g6ZfE3qxrOs4UcF0Bdl dqKcbfMgFLILoaCD5NSCdundxu0NYNz5J9MywyDp9wHB17mfjetZk9yt1gsioII6QDXh 7ZCIqn58zBiGybuxXMWzF9r3wjcAeo1/y7LXDO2ThatI5hb1vlQf51R7EkHIU9cuPozw OZtg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=2fMiSLlRCO49PNvvQSTSmDJ/xyVPuyLTXKKgzcUOYjM=; b=ARgbWsil6yBUNisJJOp6JQyGFTP5/JFS4qt4T4NFr75sfVskgY4r79nbAJmKcV3EaA 2P7V658Qy6Vky41UpCppgUJMEh7CWzLLMZCHCXLx5uBiPOFPXgE3pI/aKhS8qf9nJaEX Jq7YwrG/q9vqNPKua2RcvAx5htTkY2A4Rp7TstazpAexqGSDoEr6eZpOjNYoeCpPhXj/ 5eIFYWX3mrPTYfAFdx5FV304yGghhtv5iOhy48Ny2uWpFZMcJnaDuQSX/i/+8F+guh7y utvbj2f0ru7sA31NbiF9UwGWADeNiYIDMqNVeVdVPwCdB6F+7Z6ko71s6c2lEfsfUsxe zLYQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tKCjOT1xj9cnou/FaC0kHDRZSx6OfkFimvT8hlk+bD3u2+kEqC4rvs0ZxAWWUFORQ== X-Received: by 10.28.61.215 with SMTP id k206mr40512308wma.80.1469445521437; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 04:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iMac.local ([86.188.129.1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r127sm26871466wmf.23.2016.07.25.04.18.40 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Jul 2016 04:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 12:18:38 +0100 From: Kai Windle To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What Larry McVoy (bitkeeper) got wrong .... Message-ID: <20160725111838.GB6784@iMac.local> References: <44e4450e-8dbb-f401-bd5c-df503f7a4ef8@FreeBSD.org> <868twsqn1a.fsf@desk.des.no> <20160724003115.GY78278@eureka.lemis.com> <44ceaa97-028e-37ca-2a66-2e211bc5d3db@fastmail.com> <20160724224759.1b93545b@KoggyBSD.org> <20160725105724.GA6784@iMac.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 11:18:43 -0000 So it is apologies. I don't know why I thought it was your's Andrew. On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 11:15:21AM +0000, Andrew Perry wrote: > Kai Windle wrote: > > I've no doubt that as time progresses I'll have many questions. > > But for now I'm happy to read the mailing lists when I can. I do > > enjoy stories like Andrew Perry wrote just makes me smile about the > > whole Windows 98 thing (so many memories of 28 day reinstall cycles) > > ahhh that was Allen's story, mine is much longer and very boring ;-) > > > > This message may contain both confidential and privileged information intended only for the addressee named above. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately then destroy the original message. > -- Kind Regards Kai Sent via Mutt Email Client / Gentoo From owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mon Jul 25 17:04:48 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2339BA3007 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 17:04:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd_atog@comcast.net) Received: from resqmta-ch2-06v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-06v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Organization Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80E7D1983 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 17:04:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd_atog@comcast.net) Received: from resomta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.108]) by resqmta-ch2-06v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id RjHCbq8nF2NhqRjJ8bdQXc; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 17:04:46 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1469466286; bh=gOmLR2FaU7mDqaPM10COR50LO4Hq1c0eu5mial6iAn8=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=FkqdsrkkCf0OREGDRmc838BO/KseCP7EJ6TdbI9sGML8nNryaSI7t88+dOC7PgEnf yElzFPUL8rg96uo/E0TI5OCvxNb7O85Tmfo2y6udjGLCtOAQo0XW+IWXE/pG1YqBTQ ssa8EL/r+neE4FGtpyGWH/u5u59Wv8LRNe/664UO2qgb6LrwMjeiv7OF+L5N6g1j9I 1b+TRm1/sRio/bTcjU/tuVV27L5DvxzoGvLXMsE1FAJtVZvogDUff++0uBoCfHtqlf mHWM8yeZnYANDTen9mK9JFV2QUtk29MNtRifRI9OQDwQyDtcJuvkTX0xEdfko//gxw RnlqzKbJJL1FA== Received: from KoggyBSD.org ([68.60.93.182]) by comcast with SMTP id RjJ7bt9bSvO5ARjJ8bT7KD; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 17:04:46 +0000 Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 13:04:33 -0400 From: Allen To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What Larry McVoy (bitkeeper) got wrong .... Message-ID: <20160725130433.766b9576@KoggyBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20160725111838.GB6784@iMac.local> References: <44e4450e-8dbb-f401-bd5c-df503f7a4ef8@FreeBSD.org> <868twsqn1a.fsf@desk.des.no> <20160724003115.GY78278@eureka.lemis.com> <44ceaa97-028e-37ca-2a66-2e211bc5d3db@fastmail.com> <20160724224759.1b93545b@KoggyBSD.org> <20160725105724.GA6784@iMac.local> <20160725111838.GB6784@iMac.local> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.13.2 (GTK+ 2.24.29; i386-portbld-freebsd10.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfJRGVzn8sXRaDmac4gR7cEd/7XhbIyuJb5rILb1NvFjAiXDzfQCHP88gGUq+LSha48t2+juN9+CJGD+MgFe3/dSl52Yb5JV80sPQdt+W9OSXH0t45Rgw ++01re9h+O7dD7dpspy1h5OLNdcI6/SbZc2cZtXQ0hppTohiykAAf9A0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 17:04:48 -0000 On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 12:18:38 +0100 Kai Windle wrote: > So it is apologies. I don't know why I thought it was your's Andrew. > > On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 11:15:21AM +0000, Andrew Perry wrote: > > Kai Windle wrote: > > > I've no doubt that as time progresses I'll have many questions. > > > But for now I'm happy to read the mailing lists when I can. I do > > > enjoy stories like Andrew Perry wrote just makes me smile about > > > the whole Windows 98 thing (so many memories of 28 day reinstall > > > cycles) > > > > ahhh that was Allen's story, mine is much longer and very boring ;-) That might be my fault. When I typed out that half my life story, I'd been drinking and I didn't remember if I'd quoted it properly or anything, so sorry about that guys :) -Allen From owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mon Jul 25 19:03:45 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F3BDBA07EF for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 19:03:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pipfstarrd@openmailbox.org) Received: from mail2.openmailbox.org (mail2.openmailbox.org [62.4.1.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 554BD131D for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 19:03:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pipfstarrd@openmailbox.org) Received: by mail2.openmailbox.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DDEB710972A; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 21:03:41 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=openmailbox.org; s=openmailbox; t=1469473421; bh=a4PoeRO5psBBBu/Xyz0gXYkg/x6S2tCgfiWmp5t8Y6k=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=UZZQQaJw1R0Ob0ecqj7bDrM+9lZ0qQ4m+GeRfpfKqMEiizROgrku8U9u3yhUXxrNi XGyVZEEn+VvmkguAJwGQnpNw9zm7klpT4ULDEotOahb3lSVwMNJ1vyHoygBeUEsOwC 6U/B7TBH49BBbFJuStP/bys7jU0l3yi73colLnns= X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on h4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS, T_DKIM_INVALID,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Subject: Re: What Larry McVoy (bitkeeper) got wrong .... DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=openmailbox.org; s=openmailbox; t=1469473419; bh=a4PoeRO5psBBBu/Xyz0gXYkg/x6S2tCgfiWmp5t8Y6k=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=qgX0Gtud/bBw8NW8NbajiyCEJapHG1N1FkPJMB8Hu9p9tw4vyU1h69giADZ4Es5gg masQgvQMnfteLe+S9r6WhtkUpDrW+G+Nw7OgerdXKWqNXDUOMOahhq055KRWNso7R7 2+ohMZJ6zLvD3g1g5D/iaIAbTUdUgIhVr/dATfqQ= To: Allen , "freebsd-chat@freebsd.org" References: <44e4450e-8dbb-f401-bd5c-df503f7a4ef8@FreeBSD.org> <868twsqn1a.fsf@desk.des.no> <20160724003115.GY78278@eureka.lemis.com> <44ceaa97-028e-37ca-2a66-2e211bc5d3db@fastmail.com> <20160724224759.1b93545b@KoggyBSD.org> From: twilight Message-ID: <264e186a-68c9-ee38-5137-03dfee8d70a8@openmailbox.org> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 19:00:27 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20160724224759.1b93545b@KoggyBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 19:03:45 -0000 Wow, that's an amazing story. I've got much shorter (so as my life is) story: I've started out as a Windows user, as many of us. My first operating system was Windows 2000, the next system I used for a long time was Windows XP. When I was at the sixth grade I've found a book for computer newbies in my school library. It was very poorly written, it had lots of instructions like: "to start the volume control, pull the mouse cursor over the Start button in the bottom left corner. Then press the left button. Pull the cursor over the "All Programs" item and wait. Then...". But there was one good chapter. About hackers. About *real* hackers. It was the first time I've found out that such people exist, the book said that hackers "literally are the people upon whom internet is built". I was like "wow, I want to be the same". The book recommended to start with studying PHP, Perl, C and Lisp. I've searched in my home library and found a book about C (M. White, S. Prata, D. Marting C for beginners). It had funny illustrations and simple-given materials. After reading it I thought about myself as of a mega-hacker who knows more then anybody else. So, I started to write a Rubics cube assembler in C that was using exhaustive search. And, as I was amused with the beautiful recursion, no functions were returning, everything was called recursively. Literally. In the switch input-analyzer, in the "pick a move, test and check if assembled" cycle. Well, the program managed to solve problems made by up to 4 moves from the completed position. On the 5-move depth it always failed with SEGFAULT. I didn't know what that meant. I didn't know about asm and stack overflow at that moment. So, I didn't manage to complete it. I've thought about *nix as superior system since I've read that book, but I didn't get any chance to install anything due to my weak system and the lack of knowledge. My first systems were P-III, 512 MiB, 18 GiB, TNT Riva; then an old Toshiba laptop (Intel Celeron 1.8 GhZ, 512 MiB, 40 GiB); then an 2004 Acer laptop (Amd Turion x64, 512 MiB, 80 GiB). On the last one I've attempted to install Ubuntu (when it still used Gnome 2), but I've struggled with lots of lags, and, as, I didn't have any hacker friends who could tell me that there are much more lightweight distributions and help to get the basics, I've moved back to Windows XP (but I was 100% sure, that I'll install Linux as soon as I could get more powerful computer to work with it). So, about 5 years ago I've purchased a MSi laptop with Nvidia 530m, Intel Core i3-3110m, 4096 MiB, 500 Gb and the first thing I've installed there (well, not the first, I've played a little with some popular games, but only for about 2 weeks to find out how shitty they are) was Ubuntu Linux. I didn't know anything about terminal, but I knew that working in the term was a superior way to use my computer. So, I've tried to program in vim(1) and compile in term with gcc. I've struggled a lot :D. Not because vim was beeping and corrupting everything, just, unusual interface, lack of any knowledge (I even didn't knew about man(1) pages, lol). Well, I've made my way through setting the wallpaper with cli commands, then reading about core utils, learning to ask questions, searching the web and reading man pages. That boosted my programming studying a lot. I've got used to vim and fell in love with it's editing paradigm, key combinations, hands-on-keyboard editing style. I wanted to know about everything (although I knew that it was impossible). I tried graphics (SDL, OpenGL, shaders a little bit), networking (programming), protocols, scripting, system calls, asm programming, GUI, system administration (simple), web (html, js, css), python as backend, C, of course. I tried to understand how processor works, how that bunch of electrons help me to run DooM. Also I tried to learn C++, well, OOP is not hard (as far as i know it), but C++ is really ugly. The overbloated standard, multiple ways to do the same, sucking in the standard every nice features pushed me away from C++ back to the only and holy C. After getting a little bit comfortable with Ubuntu, I've started distrohopping: I've tried Fedora, openSUSE, Mint, flavors of Ubuntu... Then I've read about Arch Linux. I've looked at it and thought "wow, that's cool". I've struggled with the first installation, as I've needed to do everything by hands. But, after few reinstallations, reading the arch wiki I've finally got to fell myself comfortable in the terminal. All the time I were using Linux I knew about *BSD, but I always thought "ha ha lol the are doing the second Linux, who would ever need that?", and with a bunch of bad people I was always waiting the time when *BSD will finally be buried for ever. But about 1 year ago I changed my mind and thought "why not try it?". I can't tell for sure what helped me to do that, maybe the fun and positive OpenBSD release songs and artwork or the articles about the "true UNIX, unlike Linux", but, anyway, I've attempted to install FreeBSD. At that moment I've had a Dell Inspiron 3135 as my personal laptop and Lenovo G510 as a server. Well, the installation amused me with it's simplicity, but then I've had to build for 8 hours from ports (the X and some utils I use). And guess what? The AMD 8xxx series were not supported at that moment (well, they aren't supported till now, that makes me sad, a little, not to good for a system I'd like to see much more wide spreaded). So on Inspiron 3135 FreeBSD failed to launch in a X session. But Lenovo was handled normally, so I were able to try out FreeBSD and I liked it. After about 8 months of my first attempt I've accidentally spilled some water over the keyboard, so I changed my laptop to a used ThinkPad X200. FreeBSD ran like a charm on it. Well, here are still some problems I want to look deeper in, but, at least, I'm able to do all the usual tasks as the graphics and sound are working (of course, I mostly use my laptop for programming and studying, but, without music and ability to view multimedia that is a little bit sad, so, it was important). The only sad thing is that *BSD is actually dying. Linux is getting literally everywhere, spoiling standards with linuxisms and accepting blobs (that are still Linux-specific, so no hardware support even with blobs and no open specs also). So, losing contributors, that are going to more popular projects, lacking the hardware support and better to not talk about the dead FreeBSD media-advertising will eventually lead to a, at first, marginal haiku-like community and death of a bunch of little flavors (DragonFly BSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD), and, then, to the end of life of the system. So sad, that the money and legacy, not the efficiency and power make the modern IT world. On 25.07.2016 02:47, Allen wrote: > On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 07:22:18 +0000 > Andrew Perry wrote: > >> funny, I actually unsubscribed from chat (and others) because I was >> getting too much traffic. At the time I couldn't deal with it (long >> story, divorce and messy real life stuff). I was surprised when I >> recently resubscribed and didn't get any messages. I thought I'd >> stuffed up. > > Personally I prefer the FreeBSD-Chat Mailing List over IRC, but that's > just simply my own personal preference. I'v been using this list on > and off for a very long time, but eventually my situation would after a > while change to where I had no time for Mailing Lists, but I'm glad I'm > back on here. > > It does help that I'm finally using FreeBSD as my main Desktop now > though. ;) > > I've been using FreeBSD on and off since 4.0-RELEASE. I actually still > remember wayyyyy back then; I had only owned a Computer for like a year > or so at the time, and I was lucky enough to have some friends that > were Hackers. > > I thought that was amazing and I liked the idea that I could do things > with a Computer that could eventually lead to a career, and the fact > that I enjoyed doing it helped a lot too lol. > > I was talking with my at the time best friend, and he had been using > Computers for years, and I was just starting out, and didn't know much > of anything. > > I had a crappy PC with Windows 95 on it, and one night, I was kinda > drunk, and I accidentally destroyed it lol. I was working at the time, > so I did have a pay check coming in even though I still lived with my > Mom, and my main outgoing expense at that time, was my Horror Movie > Collection, and my CD Collection lol. So I went the very next day to > Best Buy, and picked out a new Computer. > > It was early 2,000 and it was the first time I had ever purchased a > Computer for myself, and I ended up buying an HP Pavilion Computer, and > it came with Windows 98 SE, 128 MBs of RAM, and a very odd 42.9 GB HD. > > It was only 42.9 GBs on Windows though; On Linux it was 43 GBs. I still > don't think I've ever seen another HD that was THAT size lol. > > But anyway, I was starting to learn that you could run an Operating > System on your Computer that wasn't Windows. Remember I'm just starting > out at this point and knew nothing. > > Anyway, I asked some friends of mine online what they used, and a > friend of mine said he ran Linux. I knew nothing about Linux, so I > looked it up, and starting reading. > > That was when I first heard about Unix, and BSD, and so on. My at the > time best friend was better with Computers than I was at the time, and > he LOVED Unix. > > Between my buddy saying he ran Linux and my friend saying that Unix was > a good OS for Hacking (He said it didn't get in the way, and that for > Programming, there was nothing better) so I took those as fairly strong > recommendations. > > So anyway, my friend would come over, and we would discuss Computer > stuff all day and all night long, and one day, I saw a book at the book > store I went to sometimes, called "Teach yourself Linux in 24 Hours". > > It came with a CD-ROM as well, and it had Caldera Open Linux 2.2 on it. > I bought the book, and started reading. > > Not too long after that, I still hadn't actually installed Linux on > anything yet, and my friend wanted to point out to me that Linux was > good, but it wasn't actually Unix. He made sure I knew the difference > between "Unix Like" and "Unix". Lol. > > Anyway, I was at Best Buy with my Mom, and as we're walking through the > store, I see the Computer Section coming up where the Software was. As > we're walking up, I see this thing called the "BSD Powerpak" and I'd > never seen it before. > > I had heard of FreeBSD before from my online reading, and I knew a > little about it, and I'd just never seen it before in a store. I was > actually kind of surprised. I grabbed it off the shelf and took a look > at the box, and I ended up buying it. > > It came with the book "The Complete FreeBSD, 3rd Edition" and it came > with 10 CD-ROMs; 4 FreeBSD Installation CDs, and 6 FreeBSD Tool Kit > CD-ROMs. > > When I got home, I opened it up and started reading about FreeBSD. As I > said before, I did know what FreeBSD, sort of, and I had heard of it > from reading online about Linux and Unix, and I was just really Happy > that I could find this boxed set I'd found. > > Of course, none of that could prepare me for what I was going to > experience either lol. Can you guys imagine? Someone who'd owned a > Computer for less than one year, knows almost nothing about Computers > let alone Unix, and has yet to actually install Linux, or any other OS > for that matter, and now trying to get FreeBSD up and running? > > My friend that came over all the time and talked Computers with me, > started checking out the box it came in, and he seemed pretty impressed > with it too. > > It took me a while before I managed to get FreeBSD installed; Not > because the installer was particularly hard to use or anything, I just > simply didn't have the skills. > > I'd never even installed Windows or DOS before. So I knew literally > nothing. > > After a while, with lots of practice, and lots of re-installs of > Windows 98 SE on that Computer, I started to get the hang of how to > install an OS. > > My Computer came with Re-Installation CDs instead of Windows > Installation CDs. The Tower / Case my Computer had, had a little CD-ROM > holding area on the very top of it so that you could put those CDs in > there, and then, if you ever needed them, you would just pop the first > one in, reboot, and it would allow you to wipe the Drive, and install > Windows, and everything else the Computer came with (Such as Drivers, > Programs, and things like that). > > Eventually I got really good with installing OSs, and I also had > another breakthrough; I finally got a High Speed Internet Connection! > > Before this, I had Dial Up, and nothing else, and not only that, but > the Modem my Computer came with, was a POS WinModem, and it wouldn't > even work with the copy of Windows 2,000 Professional that I'd bought. > > When I got a little better at Computers, and a little better at > Hardware, I eventually took it out, and was surprised to see that my > little WinModem, was also my Sound Card! > > I'd never seen Hardware like this before, but it was for sure weird. I > eventually had bought a new Sound Card, after installing SuSE Linux 8.1 > Professional. > > I'd bought SuSE 8.1 Professional at that same Best Buy that I had > bought the FreeBSD Powerpak at, and I could never get online with Linux. > > I'd by this time bought more versions of Linux to play with, but no > matter what, for some reason, there were two things that always > prevented me from sticking with Linux; Sound Card issues, because of > the Sound Card / WinModem combo that I just mentioned, and of course, > getting online. > > I bought a Sound Blaster! Sound Card at Best Buy, and given my limited > know how at the time, I paid for them to install it for me as well. > Once I had a REAL Sound Card, I could finally get sound in an OS that > wasn't Windows 98 SE, which meant now, all I had to do, was get online > with High Speed, and I could finally use a NIC, and use another OS. > > After a while, and saving up money, I managed to finally afford to get > a Cable Internet Connection. The day Comcast came to finally install > it, I wasn't home because I was at work, and the girl they sent to do > it, was a moron. > > When I got home, the phone call I had gotten at work, was making more > sense... My Mom called me at work, and said the girl was "Trying to > delete System Files so that the OS would re-install them"... > > I knew that didn't sound right, and sure enough, it didn't work. I got > home that night from work, and had to re-install Windows. Again. > > Finally, Comcast sent two other techs to the house to install our > connection. > > I told the guys that showed up what happened, and they were in shock. > The main guy that was there, sent his co-worker out to their van to > grab me a NIC since the girl who showed up to install before, had > thrown mine in the Trash, because "She couldn't get it working". He > said that the girl they sent, only kept her job because she was pretty, > and that she didn't really know anything about anything. > > He got a new NIC installed in my Computer, and set up the Cable Modem, > and got it working finally, and after that. I no longer had any real > reason not to use another OS. > > So I installed Partition Magic, set up some Partitions, and I got SuSE > Linux 8.1 Professional installed, and got it online, and I got sound > working. > > I had finally installed Linux and got it working on my Computer. I also > installed Windows 2,000 Professional on it, that way I could Dual Boot > between Windows and Linux. I kept Windows for games, and used Linux for > more and more. > > The first time I tried installing FreeBSD though, I still didn't > understand enough. so I stuck with Linux and Windows 2,000 Professional > for a while. One day, I wanted to get FreeBSD up and running, so I > started the installation. > > The Power Went out while I was installing. Like 40 times. Lol, it seems > like I'm full of it there, but I'm serious; It started out with my Mom, > who was using a Hair Dryer, and kept tripping the Breaker, and > eventually I got her to stop that, and then, there were multiple > outtages after that from the weather. > > Eventually, I got FreeBSD installed, and I knew nothing about it > really. I'd read the book, but I didn't know much about using it. When > I look back and think about all the time I spent like that, and doing > what I did, I can't help but laugh; I mean, I was dumb, and I've > learned a lot over these last however many years it's been, and I still > have the box for my FreeBSD Powerpak, and the book, and the CDs too. > > I'm now running FreeBSD 10.1-RELEASE, and I've already gotten my > FreeBSD 10.3-RELEASE DVD in the mail from the FreeBSD Mall. I've got so > many books now I can't even count. I also buy BSD Magazine. > > I'm glad I stuck with FreeBSD though; I Love it. It's probably my > favorite OS that I still use. > > Anyway, sorry about the length of this, but I felt that it would make > more sense if you guys had some context to go on, and some history. > > -Allen > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Cheers~ PGP key fingerprint: 07B3 2177 3E27 BF41 DC65 CC95 BDA8 88F1 E9F9 CEEF You can retrieve my public key at pgp.mit.edu. From owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mon Jul 25 20:36:43 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2383BA4851 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 20:36:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell1.rawbw.com (shell1.rawbw.com [198.144.192.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F6DD11CE for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 20:36:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from yuri.doctorlan.com (c-24-5-143-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.5.143.190]) (authenticated bits=0) by shell1.rawbw.com (8.15.1/8.15.1) with ESMTPSA id u6PKabIx087954 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 13:36:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell1.rawbw.com: Host c-24-5-143-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.5.143.190] claimed to be yuri.doctorlan.com Subject: Re: What Larry McVoy (bitkeeper) got wrong .... To: "freebsd-chat@freebsd.org" References: <44e4450e-8dbb-f401-bd5c-df503f7a4ef8@FreeBSD.org> <868twsqn1a.fsf@desk.des.no> <20160724003115.GY78278@eureka.lemis.com> <44ceaa97-028e-37ca-2a66-2e211bc5d3db@fastmail.com> <20160724224759.1b93545b@KoggyBSD.org> <264e186a-68c9-ee38-5137-03dfee8d70a8@openmailbox.org> From: Yuri Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 13:36:36 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <264e186a-68c9-ee38-5137-03dfee8d70a8@openmailbox.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 20:36:43 -0000 On 07/25/2016 12:00, twilight wrote: > The only sad thing is that *BSD is actually dying. Linux is getting > literally everywhere, spoiling standards with linuxisms and accepting > blobs (that are still Linux-specific, so no hardware support even with > blobs and no open specs also). So, losing contributors, that are going > to more popular projects, lacking the hardware support and better to not > talk about the dead FreeBSD media-advertising will eventually lead to a, > at first, marginal haiku-like community and death of a bunch of little > flavors (DragonFly BSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD), and, then, to the end of life > of the system. So sad, that the money and legacy, not the efficiency and > power make the modern IT world. I don't think BSD isn't going to die though. BSD is very appealing to those who is able to really appreciate technology. This is sadly a very small fraction of even those in the computer field. But still, FreeBSD has been active for decades now, and there is a pretty active community not showing any signs of dying. There will always be people who will be able to recognize greatness when they see it. I hope it will stay this way. Yuri