From owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sun Nov 20 23:50:29 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D3F0C4CD8E for ; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 23:50:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from silver.bullet@zoho.com) Received: from sender153-mail.zoho.com (sender153-mail.zoho.com [74.201.84.153]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28E1B170F for ; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 23:50:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from silver.bullet@zoho.com) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=zapps768; d=zoho.com; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; b=SJjpR9IeM0UfedBR9qLCzVlERnktiJp0jBbLS9v5BVwI9IDow+OLW1+AOvybyE9y2UXPgAFS5LPb yG/hMpJNTb4dQDdtiq0B0SSmWcG6TOzN2OL5vOFcj70GlfC3TWhI Received: from utnubu (x5ce705d3.dyn.telefonica.de [92.231.5.211]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1479685823978334.3770543546706; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 15:50:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 00:50:19 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft announced it is joining The Linux Foundation? Message-ID: <20161121005019.7a4eee6c@utnubu> In-Reply-To: <20161120223714.c04ab707.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20161118113224.20964d7d.freebsd@edvax.de> <747a871c-4d34-7c06-0c04-4650f31bb6ce@FreeBSD.org> <14047.128.135.52.6.1479482907.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> <20161118165549.408e9a9f@archlinux.localdomain> <86zikv5mqu.fsf@WorkBox.homestead.org> <5831FE03.2030207@gmail.com> <20161120222249.05a75d9e@moonstudio> <20161120223714.c04ab707.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.14.1-17-gc95de2-dirty (GTK+ 2.24.30; x86_64-ubuntu-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 23:50:29 -0000 Hi, this thread started at https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2016-November/274673.html . On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 22:37:14 +0100, Polytropon wrote: >On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 22:22:49 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> A quick search didn't show me an off-topic FreeBSD mailing list. >> However, there's >> >> https://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic >> >> subscribing shouldn't be required, to post to this list. > >There is freebsd-chat@ - "Non technical items related to the >community", maybe this one is preferred for the current kind of >discussion? > >> Here in Germany nobody is forced to use anything related to >> Microsoft. > >That is not true for schools or governmental installations where >there are _strict_ requirements on what software is allowed to >be used, typically MICROS~1 products due to long-term contracts >and lobbyism. Additionally, people at work cannot refuse to use >something that they are forced to use (or they will get fired, >_that_ is the choice they have). > >Choice: "Eat it or leave it." ;-) The schools and governments were not forced to use Microsoft. Sure, there is lobbying and as already pointed out, I dislike Microsoft, I dislike capitalism with it's mechanisms, such as lobbying. However, the thread started obscure and became more obscure when it was continued. "Microsoft announced it is joining The Linux Foundation?" Actually Microsoft seemingly is a contributor. Contributing to FLOSS is something very common. Kim Jong-il could do, you could do, I could do. People pointed out how bad Linux became, with statements that are de facto wrong. Anyway, assuming they would have valid arguments, the fusion of two unrelated topics makes no sense, let alone that there indeed is a fusion between FreeBSD and Linux userspace, ergo this conspiracy would affect FreeBSD, too. >> Computer users are free to chose what they want to use. > >Home consumers are, yes. For those who need a specific software >which is available only for "Windows", or those who are already >affected by vendor lock-in (data cannot be migrated, programs >do not exist in portable code form etc.), and those who are >under strict requirements (see above) this is not true. With >upcoming hardware configurations, that ability of choice will >be harder and harder to implement (things like "Restricted Boot"). Half-truth! There are regulations such as the monopolies law. There are workaround such as jailbreaks, don't multi-boot containing a Windows that requires secure boot and simply disable secure boot. >> If people still use e.g. a service provided by Microsoft, despite of >> all we know about the Microsoft and Linux conspiracy/conspiracies, >> this is another evidence for the conspiracy/conspiracies. > >Leaked NSA material _proves_ the role of MICROS~1 within the >spying apparatus aimed at people. The USA PATRIOT Act is not an invention of Microsoft. The folk of the USA vote governments and those governments pass resolutions. If they really, really would be against it, they wouldn't have voted for the presidents they have voted. German companies are free to use a German operating system and German computer related services. Oh wait, there is no German operating system providing all that, what's provided by and for Windows, because Germans voted that old-line, that our governments were not interested in modern technology, when computer technology was new. Now they claim they are pro new technology and call computer technology something new, but it's an old technology. We - the folk - make mistakes and no conspiracy theory does rule out our mistakes. Nobody could have knowledge about everything. You might have computer skills, but how much knowledge do you have about other domains, e.g. seafaring. Jane Doe can't maintain a FreeBSD install, just to watch YouTube videos, let alone that professional non-linear video editing can't be done with FreeBSD or Linux and real-time audio at least requires Linux and for tablet PCs only Apple allows it, even Linux based tablet PCs don't have the ability. There are domains and business software might be one domain, too, were a proprietary OS is required, because there is no alternative OS available. There is no evil conspiracy. Sometimes a company events a standard, because a standard is required, to realise something. FLOSS communities have no leader, they try to make things better, but never find an end to beginn to realise something complex. A less good standard often is required to beginn development with a standard. An unfinished better standard is no standard at all. A standard not necessarily is something to lock in users. Regards, Ralf