From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Thu Mar 31 12:32:55 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 325AAAE2948 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:32:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from torfinn.ingolfsen@getmail.no) Received: from bouvier.getmail.no (bouvier.getmail.no [84.210.184.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67091A92 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:32:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from torfinn.ingolfsen@getmail.no) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bouvier.getmail.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99ECF4424E for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:22:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bouvier.getmail.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (bouvier.get.c.bitbit.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id POk_JGx0ID3e for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:22:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bouvier.getmail.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2676D4950A for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:22:49 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.8.4 bouvier.getmail.no 2676D4950A DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=getmail.no; s=8A9C8B4C-D727-11E2-8095-B6466E6B3FA2; t=1459426969; bh=uFD4Fjpmze65SmpSTkOmGm380pfLkjyDVeUXn84n22k=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Mime-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=YhNaJE2wJaMuUkM6wrh94Kyhm4eDEi0Sp9XoaZUjNgH1d7lS3jy0ctWc9EV6xtz63 Kv4l9jKopUR18Ihc36Bd5k9BQgNI1e4WAf+hSKiU5DfhwZBe0t6DL3ex1qZgneYWsS nsM4CEy9nAProuzBPb5sjhKt97KrCgpD1ZQvvg3c= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at bouvier.get.c.bitbit.net Received: from bouvier.getmail.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (bouvier.get.c.bitbit.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id wi1qwn-aqSL5 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:22:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from kg-core1.kg4.no (cm-84.215.226.9.getinternet.no [84.215.226.9]) by bouvier.getmail.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F1F2B4424E for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:22:48 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:22:43 +0200 From: Torfinn Ingolfsen To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? Message-Id: <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> In-Reply-To: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.24.29; amd64-portbld-freebsd9.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:32:55 -0000 On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 23:15:42 -0700 David Christensen wrote: > freebsd-mobile: > > I'm looking for a new or used laptop that is known to work correctly > with FreeBSD 10.2, Xfce, Firefox, Thunderbird, (whatever free) Office, > etc., plus encryption and virtualization. > Notes on your points: 1. Intel Graphics might not work. Most modern laptops use UEFI, which allows you to use scfb - it might work, but it isn't a graphics race horse. 13. There are only a limited number of sd card controllers that has been tested - if the laptop has a different one, it might not be detected at all. Some things you haven't mentioned: suspend / hibernation - this might not work at all. FWIW, my newest laptop have a SSD instead of a "spinning rust" hard drive - this makes shutdown / startup time acceptable for me, so I don't need suspend - I simply shutdown my laptop before going somewhere else. YMMV. battery time - on some laptops, FreeBSD's power management isn't as good as in other operating systems (for example Linux), resulting in a shorter run-time on battery when you run FreeBSD on the machine. Question: 4. Why do you want to have an optical drive built into your laptop? Do you use optical media that often? For me, I use optical media rarely these days, so a usb connected optical reader / burner is enough. It is hard to recommend anything specific; currently any given laptop model lasts about 3 - 6 months before the vendor drops it (or changes internal components). Also, figuring out what the internal components actually are (in hope of matching against FreeBSD supported hardware list) is difficult as vendors rarely describe the specification at that level of detail. HTH -- Torfinn Ingolfsen From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Thu Mar 31 14:09:06 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E7CAE4BF3 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:09:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Received: from sola.nimnet.asn.au (paqi.nimnet.asn.au [115.70.110.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D07351A9B for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:09:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sola.nimnet.asn.au (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id u2VE5BaM000602; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 01:05:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 01:05:11 +1100 (EST) From: Ian Smith To: Torfinn Ingolfsen cc: David Christensen , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? In-Reply-To: <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> Message-ID: <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:09:06 -0000 On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:22:43 +0200, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: > On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 23:15:42 -0700 > David Christensen wrote: > > > freebsd-mobile: > > > > I'm looking for a new or used laptop that is known to work correctly > > with FreeBSD 10.2, Xfce, Firefox, Thunderbird, (whatever free) Office, > > etc., plus encryption and virtualization. > > > > Notes on your points: 1. Intel Graphics might not work. Most modern > laptops use UEFI, which allows you to use scfb - it might work, but > it isn't a graphics race horse. > 13. There are only a limited number of sd card controllers that has > been tested - if the laptop has a different one, it might not be > detected at all. If David is prepared to consider a used laptop, a bit earlier than the latest bleeding-edge hardware, there are likely quite a few suitable machines that won't have many of the issues that are still problematic with the very latest kit, whoever the manufacturer. > Some things you haven't mentioned: > suspend / hibernation - this might not work at all. FWIW, my newest > laptop have a SSD instead of a "spinning rust" hard drive - this > makes shutdown / startup time acceptable for me, so I don't need > suspend - I simply shutdown my laptop before going somewhere else. > YMMV. FreeBSD doesn't do hibernation (S4, suspend-to-disk) at all, but there are quite a few laptops that do a great job of S3 (suspend-to-RAM), for instance most of the higher-end Lenovos (T- and X- series especially), which have been and are frequently used by some FreeBSD developers. Explore the wiki: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Laptops For an example of something not much older that might tick a lot of your boxes: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Laptops/Thinkpad_T540p > battery time - on some laptops, FreeBSD's power management isn't as > good as in other operating systems (for example Linux), resulting in > a shorter run-time on battery when you run FreeBSD on the machine. I get nearly 6 hours at idle on my (older again) Lenovo X200 with the smaller 6-cell battery, but that's more a notebook. Power management responds well to some tuning, eg whether using the deeper sleep states and tuning powerd(8) for desired power saving vs responsiveness, etc. > Question: > 4. Why do you want to have an optical drive built into your laptop? > Do you use optical media that often? For me, I use optical media > rarely these days, so a usb connected optical reader / burner is > enough. Agreed, this requirement would seriously limit available choices. > It is hard to recommend anything specific; currently any given laptop > model lasts about 3 - 6 months before the vendor drops it (or changes > internal components). Also, figuring out what the internal components > actually are (in hope of matching against FreeBSD supported hardware > list) is difficult as vendors rarely describe the specification at > that level of detail. Well, as others on freebsd-questions responded on this topic, it's rarely worth buying new and cheap. With Lenovos, for example, the cheaper W- and G-series seem generally far more problematic than the more upmarket ones .. whereas if buying used you can probably get two higher-quality machines for the price of one lesser-quality new one, speaking generally of course. cheers, Ian (who still has one working IBM T23 with three spares :) From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Thu Mar 31 21:49:38 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 943EDAE45AC for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:49:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) Received: from mail.ambrisko.com (mail.ambrisko.com [70.91.206.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F6BF19AF for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:49:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) X-Ambrisko-Me: Yes Received: from server2.ambrisko.com (HELO internal.ambrisko.com) ([192.168.1.2]) by ironport.ambrisko.com with ESMTP; 31 Mar 2016 15:03:55 -0700 Received: from ambrisko.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by internal.ambrisko.com (8.14.9/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u2VLnWCU079959; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:49:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by ambrisko.com (8.14.9/8.14.4/Submit) id u2VLnVHE079957; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:49:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:49:31 -0700 From: Doug Ambrisko To: Ian Smith Cc: Torfinn Ingolfsen , David Christensen , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? Message-ID: <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:49:38 -0000 On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 01:05:11AM +1100, Ian Smith wrote: [snip] | FreeBSD doesn't do hibernation (S4, suspend-to-disk) at all, but there | are quite a few laptops that do a great job of S3 (suspend-to-RAM), for | instance most of the higher-end Lenovos (T- and X- series especially), | which have been and are frequently used by some FreeBSD developers. | | Explore the wiki: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Laptops | | For an example of something not much older that might tick a lot of your | boxes: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Laptops/Thinkpad_T540p [snip] My T540p suspends fine but doesn't resume. AMT says it came out of resume but the power button says it didn't. AMT seems to be broken such that I can't get a serial connection. I was hoping that I could get a serial connect to help debug it. I tried upgrading the firmware and that didn't help. Linux suspends and resumes just fine. Graphics works fine with the latest stuff. I borred a W541 a while back and it resumed with 10 but I don't have access to it now. Thanks, Doug A. From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Thu Mar 31 22:12:10 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82065AE4E2B for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:12:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io0-x231.google.com (mail-io0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CE8017E2 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:12:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io0-x231.google.com with SMTP id g185so132052591ioa.2 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:12:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=lScnDagmSdgR4kuvaLiN4md3LiEcJAjw+g92etJyKTk=; b=GhiOM89e8C5pep74vu7bAR0RFs5+zfAZRO53d8albx8gyr2/3lIXnIkWNtyvs2YLFe 83cRxwvPv4EIZu+rNOM1eKnL7ragZUv75urk71MczA1afwVZiIGTHFhVUZJkxEU76yL/ BtIf9aZJyFZKnvEtUBaLdlb5tTUasH3y54sgLx/Fivx3kiVsjuHaxAdlxhgBuEePrAhu zKOpKM0WHOmRBOZmdbzBSv9Mt/WwHJmYonAD7RvC4C16Lez9Q3lNuJRiTlKC7Wu7oSOH ubX1qSGR6YnhvgQ+h843ytvx9S4SAKuTjvh5EHUrY7njgiu+U/T7hxoGkbn1D5Gzhnes i98A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=lScnDagmSdgR4kuvaLiN4md3LiEcJAjw+g92etJyKTk=; b=FxNXWsd4w1uSGL5IfonnfPpY1MGWaZTBZ6IBUQ+Xyq64VvCyNSkv3u9PoDFWCiOdQ7 z+Q9NE+5W8Yp8A7e1SCvcPTUnqUVp/GPSHLxcHCHQ26saX1UZmwG0kxuXg8kEZJZ8Nu5 4gR/BJiEfkta2PofiGWRBZyDdooRU4ApqAiExtswkaoPgVYIse/sUI7Nu9FWhhKFKSUH fDwuldHzP0PsLBIY3E2NI9NZebPyHTPQF84Lf6Oud2+5CGlYFc6YL/uY75RiNiKn2DtV lz43H9e3ulsUm2tFrwIlp880ftJYnpMljN9x+qShJ7AuEVipg5U3N55+4qSS96PAYiAA g9Pw== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJISq3483q9cZlUkAFBRLr70jkmbpSCldPU8vfP+ouk41zT1ktPjVvt0A2IwRvnymFcMLUVmI9eyy8gmRA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.35.82 with SMTP id j79mr4592600ioj.123.1459462329576; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:12:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.14.19 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:12:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:12:09 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? From: Adrian Chadd To: Doug Ambrisko Cc: Ian Smith , David Christensen , Torfinn Ingolfsen , "freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:12:10 -0000 What graphics are in the t540p? -adrian From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Thu Mar 31 22:12:46 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B03CAE4E65 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:12:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io0-x22d.google.com (mail-io0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65037187B for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:12:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id e3so131107452ioa.1 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:12:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=Xdpccg3fsMngQEBGcONWxwRDCZ2mfA1ur0jNowb6cgo=; b=TpO/9ndI0Iw2KMhU7fsGqCSIBZSuGQJQOqkaJwYatcPHoE5nlSRFmpAI0HXmDt9zcz pyzuls3dKeLi9YW20QmrgjkABJ6c8xKd/F+R8Eek9CBg9g7YSVT//vDQ4x7i5xUF8WzY IswQoenSww3tNc1FHYQOLcSqD70lrjJc2rRRlhuD4vkDd0YvSYfEmUil2YQl4dEEOaXC ajz34Ohmc6tg6jSo8JLdzE+iaZ7i3IomPw9nvEDQ66FUbAHhnDgKwSSLdVdiUtP0CkPk stuTirDXVehIVsXMCzN2zsYMzj49XZ6yrF5MJi7pzhwn6Q+SCy/AgckMxkYfpvelggq2 RlWg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=Xdpccg3fsMngQEBGcONWxwRDCZ2mfA1ur0jNowb6cgo=; b=GZWDX3pbPf5sibmOm4iAjAktBeAtAS1n+WPZNpY9MCIEpHPCSpmHaFm5SM8+YFA2u7 rafsXpsh5i2ch8dXDp/Qn2NruV7vtxWiV/gFIVNzLobPbMPph0vTkkKpvT3ZJZnihMMe HiLzyToprq6WujcH4NN5HfR1vcdnFj43Tp+9yIPDak2x5YujG3m+TOAwmkAlhmoUi4pn +dCB8O7wEluEUiTm4pSy5mXkFjTtOwNMst4uLTJRfZY6N/LyZDJjDxeo8RbOrYbCbWS0 8ap//xA5xlKm0B/vRH84C8KneW7R/uMlyrX/i1m1ppyBYz1qNBLw6LqLdh6a5BUg+rA5 5/0A== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJLd6Bvqc8CNQyEXeIlynKeEXsh8fKqi9OF4R22S+le8MFxkyyjQ35BRB0K9MGpw0G8FwGqBxixZB2wRjw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.19.42 with SMTP id b42mr4099090ioj.75.1459462365763; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.14.19 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:12:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:12:45 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? From: Adrian Chadd To: Doug Ambrisko Cc: Ian Smith , David Christensen , Torfinn Ingolfsen , "freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:12:46 -0000 Ah, it's haswell. You're using vt(4), right? -adrian From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Thu Mar 31 22:29:52 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC8B3AE4396 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:29:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) Received: from mail.ambrisko.com (mail.ambrisko.com [70.91.206.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D518D1F35 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:29:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) X-Ambrisko-Me: Yes Received: from server2.ambrisko.com (HELO internal.ambrisko.com) ([192.168.1.2]) by ironport.ambrisko.com with ESMTP; 31 Mar 2016 15:44:15 -0700 Received: from ambrisko.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by internal.ambrisko.com (8.14.9/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u2VMTpAM085567; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:29:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by ambrisko.com (8.14.9/8.14.4/Submit) id u2VMTp09085565; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:29:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:29:51 -0700 From: Doug Ambrisko To: Adrian Chadd Cc: Ian Smith , David Christensen , Torfinn Ingolfsen , "freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? Message-ID: <20160331222951.GA81396@ambrisko.com> References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:29:53 -0000 On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 03:12:45PM -0700, Adrian Chadd wrote: | Ah, it's haswell. You're using vt(4), right? Yep vt(4) with Haswell Intel stuff in -current. Before I used the stuff in the git repro. Doing the bounce test works fine. I tried stripping down the kernel. I tried UEFI and legacy boot. Same thing. With AMT I can in theory reset it remotely but then it the HW errors out and won't POST when it gets into this stuck resume state. I was hoping that I could reset it remotely to see dmesg. If I do a warm remote the prior dmesg it there so I was hoping to see or be able to scrible something into dmesg to give a clue. I wish I had a parallel port so I could flip bits to light some LEDs on a debug thing I made up. Thanks, Doug A. From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Thu Mar 31 23:30:29 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67E56AE4651 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 23:30:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ig0-x22a.google.com (mail-ig0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 313D818FE for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 23:30:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ig0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id ma7so3444610igc.0 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 16:30:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=WX6MnmD5jAh2QDLBSJwbaH4Ea4zfdj5cHIXGmyx84xE=; b=EEBBretMlvt9pk/miM/MLEB2FMGJ1ZBB2YjeuznMFNtDL2Yol7cWDuyQdqj6C5p1iB GuaXHLguYfZFLy6Y+lWpZDwk3qdpocdVHQ4ZuZEpH8anAKYnJM6c/v+da0/gm1Ge1gcT O3+8ScUjqazwMc9wLSDjOgWt/SI6wIWLPqBUj5McfbMOpTGrIuKo16q4AhF+7l0SZxFd fktdZaiKT91RD4pHF/iyItkLSdL+KHNUCdXQhTNr4/OeDZIqRHBZSArty17TyWlwCusJ zmPuPgsiZDBOhVG41vCiPhtVGzY0tNMbShIJEo6sUHb1PxmWWlngrH/HCjRGLNt0MU7/ g/Pw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=WX6MnmD5jAh2QDLBSJwbaH4Ea4zfdj5cHIXGmyx84xE=; b=ZG5D4fSTNKJKve9mszjgEHt5Ht5rx700M5S8D+YOvzaApWFxcO0GUEmHM3gFVny9iV 0aEeyVmNRonPumaViT2VQgo00VPY1H+dpktDNwdcsPXtZo/gydF+V6Bz6h7UmwH0v77E b6xXZGNm7z2v+FWDGc01r9vm5qtKmABkvYA9lcDbEO3VSg6DX+MDaNq8TdnyZmbb/mvU iLkAq2sGWFjuj4VzQIPDu+jjxKFPpAu100jaCGbrlqh+VVi/b3EfCpcSI49CdQai7Bnw fjR858EGQyp0j0+wnNZ+JgcRN/6aqTjNuEpwo5hHHGQaAB2E4f6gPrnjjDd/r5EY8liW 7iiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJLMMXZDjbcgP016TTVLvnS/Gy8kWbPMo5+c72HaTQRdHpnKv4Hu24AgzowORFk7u8LM3ZEOxDfAMvR8Uw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.126.67 with SMTP id mw3mr281411igb.61.1459467028076; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 16:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.14.19 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 16:30:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20160331222951.GA81396@ambrisko.com> References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> <20160331222951.GA81396@ambrisko.com> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 16:30:28 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? From: Adrian Chadd To: Doug Ambrisko Cc: Ian Smith , David Christensen , Torfinn Ingolfsen , "freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 23:30:29 -0000 Hi, Unload the USB kernel drivers and try again. The last couple times I had this problem it was something about expected power versus set power in ACPI for USB (for wake on USB), which we were getting wrong - and it wouldn't wake up right. -adrian From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Fri Apr 1 01:26:39 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3227CAE48EA for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 01:26:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from info@lalas.ca) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 124641844 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 01:26:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from info@lalas.ca) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 0D8A2AE48E7; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 01:26:39 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CFF6AE48E6 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 01:26:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from info@lalas.ca) Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0206.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.206]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE3E81843 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 01:26:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from info@lalas.ca) Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (10.5.19.251.rfc1918.com [10.5.19.251]) by smtpgrave07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C502A11B4F0 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 19:31:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (unknown [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay08.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3135E29DE3C; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 19:31:27 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 696E666F406C616C61732E6361 X-Spam-Summary: 50, 3, 0, , d41d8cd98f00b204, info@lalas.ca, :::::::::::::, RULES_HIT:2:41:72:355:379:800:871:962:967:983:988:989:1000:1189:1197:1208:1212:1213:1260:1263:1313:1314:1345:1381:1390:1431:1432:1436:1437:1516:1517:1518:1573:1575:1588:1589:1592:1594:1606:1685:1730:1744:1777:1792:2068:2069:2198:2199:2525:2532:2553:2566:2610:2682:2685:2731:2859:2933:2937:2939:2942:2945:2947:2951:2954:3022:3040:3138:3139:3140:3141:3142:3174:3245:3354:3366:3552:3554:3635:3847:3873:3876:3934:3936:3938:3941:3944:3947:3950:3953:3956:3959:4093:4512:4513:4515:6117:6119:6261:6354:6506:6747:7281:7398:7875:7903:7904:8518:8599:8603:9025:9038:9388:9467:9979:10004:10049:10128:10167:10168:10848:10881:11256:11257:11651:11657:11658:11855:11914:12043:12048:12438:12517:12519:12555:13139:14096:14596:14658:21060:21080:21366:30028:30054:30075:30090, 0, RBL:none, CacheIP:none, Bayesian:0.5, 0.5, 0.5, Netcheck:none, DomainCache:0, MSF:not bulk, SPF:fn, MSBL:0, DNSBL:none, Custom_rules:0:0:0, LFtime:1, LUA_SUMMARY:none X-HE-Tag: girls47_27b727d093954 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 83081 Received: from xray921.dedicatedpanel.com (unknown [122.160.254.126]) (Authenticated sender: info@lalas.ca) by omf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 19:31:12 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <989D2B7873A7893AE6E3AA16022DE0CC@lalas.ca> From: "REPLICA WATCHES" To: , , , , , , Subject: Best watches. 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Message-ID: <20160401022459.GA17837@ambrisko.com> References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> <20160331222951.GA81396@ambrisko.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 02:25:01 -0000 On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 04:30:28PM -0700, Adrian Chadd wrote: | Hi, | | Unload the USB kernel drivers and try again. The last couple times I | had this problem it was something about expected power versus set | power in ACPI for USB (for wake on USB), which we were getting wrong - | and it wouldn't wake up right. Would that be different from building a kernel without USB and other devices. I tried that again and it got stuck on resume. I could try to kldload usb and then unload it. Thanks, Doug A. From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Fri Apr 1 02:31:57 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D1CDAE588D for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 02:31:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Received: from sola.nimnet.asn.au (paqi.nimnet.asn.au [115.70.110.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB60610BD for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 02:31:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sola.nimnet.asn.au (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id u312VlRB028708; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 13:31:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 13:31:47 +1100 (EST) From: Ian Smith To: Doug Ambrisko cc: Torfinn Ingolfsen , David Christensen , Adrian Chadd , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? In-Reply-To: <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> Message-ID: <20160401131820.R39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 02:31:57 -0000 On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:49:31 -0700, Doug Ambrisko wrote: > On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 01:05:11AM +1100, Ian Smith wrote: > [snip] > | Explore the wiki: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Laptops > | > | For an example of something not much older that might tick a lot of your > | boxes: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Laptops/Thinkpad_T540p > [snip] > > My T540p suspends fine but doesn't resume. AMT says it came out of > resume but the power button says it didn't. AMT seems to be broken > such that I can't get a serial connection. I was hoping that I could > get a serial connect to help debug it. I tried upgrading the firmware > and that didn't help. Linux suspends and resumes just fine. Graphics > works fine with the latest stuff. I borred a W541 a while back and it > resumed with 10 but I don't have access to it now. Glen said in his report: * Suspends fine. * Resumes with unofficial Haswell i915kms/drm2 update. Have you tried that? dmesg shows his running 11 (March 2015), however. You could try pinging him, if he has a spare msec before 10.3's out .. cheers, Ian From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Fri Apr 1 02:37:51 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D74F5AE5A13 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 02:37:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C446811CD; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 02:37:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from FreeBSD.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C6B9130A; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 02:37:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 02:37:47 +0000 From: Glen Barber To: Doug Ambrisko Cc: Adrian Chadd , "freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org" , David Christensen , Ian Smith , Torfinn Ingolfsen Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? Message-ID: <20160401023747.GB81593@FreeBSD.org> References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> <20160331222951.GA81396@ambrisko.com> <20160401022459.GA17837@ambrisko.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="dTy3Mrz/UPE2dbVg" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20160401022459.GA17837@ambrisko.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 11.0-CURRENT amd64 X-SCUD-Definition: Sudden Completely Unexpected Dataloss X-SULE-Definition: Sudden Unexpected Learning Event X-PEKBAC-Definition: Problem Exists, Keyboard Between Admin/Computer User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 02:37:51 -0000 --dTy3Mrz/UPE2dbVg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 07:24:59PM -0700, Doug Ambrisko wrote: > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 04:30:28PM -0700, Adrian Chadd wrote: > | Hi, > |=20 > | Unload the USB kernel drivers and try again. The last couple times I > | had this problem it was something about expected power versus set > | power in ACPI for USB (for wake on USB), which we were getting wrong - > | and it wouldn't wake up right. >=20 > Would that be different from building a kernel without USB and other > devices. I tried that again and it got stuck on resume. >=20 > I could try to kldload usb and then unload it. >=20 You need the i915kms from 11-CURRENT for suspend/resume to work properly on the T540p. It does not work at all otherwise. Trust me, I've tried everything. Glen --dTy3Mrz/UPE2dbVg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJW/d77AAoJEAMUWKVHj+KTNCEP/Rmo35cq7h0uObnAovmvtLTf 4vrSQWBYjkJ1qkC57X3LyxjMtze2Kxfdg+/GO/wFEDK/uEGUFcymJXR57Z4IUk1l lxMucEOnrO862VPkZL6CpVIaJSZuAT5JJPX5kSK/XpsD4ETVrOkPIEF7RmECGYOv o1POLleNW/HwCjOl1cMKuKTFOxZDdb6pxUVGeFZ2qK+f5hnwgSq4sylcXeSA/F96 oLw/idezMOgphHSFdW94pHbZJW63Ph01OKoAjO9pmCUqiA/00DaADnMD3+/ziapI e4pSb4DOMy9CMYvKg4ZrDH4GRqlw7xFlznzP5RIlAPNRaz2kwyWfRWDYtJ7xXRAy g1DJkaQNQmjc5t5P+Dg7cfYzq5yV3tV8g4rSE7KHvNRb4oEve9AfpuIy9hvGjhxb 94y1wO2aMIs+0f1vcZJQvrwtum04uFeUUoAFbEEubYOoBM/1pBK4qrOiimP+tts+ cKi/Dw/Ct6lNJSe/dOs+Yw9FK6J3Z/UqAOKiMz3lgJd61bIgBvmloMyOqyq2ROZO W8otDuVZF+IenKrOZWbHHhS3Uo/SBHdE6mLtxS5dP579KNUlr4RSXYxv8C7AF7LJ l+t/A9WI62mJmmIWdMVw356TCaE6FOPmDRvzoWzEjiKTaVTFCp/mKzwwRh1R032W Yt0RINrYJWQMoDUiS5NJ =dBaj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dTy3Mrz/UPE2dbVg-- From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Fri Apr 1 02:45:45 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B7FAE5CF2 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 02:45:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) Received: from mail.ambrisko.com (mail.ambrisko.com [70.91.206.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 391A916FA; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 02:45:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) X-Ambrisko-Me: Yes Received: from server2.ambrisko.com (HELO internal.ambrisko.com) ([192.168.1.2]) by ironport.ambrisko.com with ESMTP; 31 Mar 2016 20:00:07 -0700 Received: from ambrisko.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by internal.ambrisko.com (8.14.9/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u312jiK3020908; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:45:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by ambrisko.com (8.14.9/8.14.4/Submit) id u312jh6E020907; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:45:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:45:43 -0700 From: Doug Ambrisko To: Glen Barber Cc: Adrian Chadd , "freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org" , David Christensen , Ian Smith , Torfinn Ingolfsen Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? Message-ID: <20160401024543.GA19980@ambrisko.com> References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> <20160331222951.GA81396@ambrisko.com> <20160401022459.GA17837@ambrisko.com> <20160401023747.GB81593@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20160401023747.GB81593@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 02:45:45 -0000 On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 02:37:47AM +0000, Glen Barber wrote: | On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 07:24:59PM -0700, Doug Ambrisko wrote: | > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 04:30:28PM -0700, Adrian Chadd wrote: | > | Hi, | > | | > | Unload the USB kernel drivers and try again. The last couple times I | > | had this problem it was something about expected power versus set | > | power in ACPI for USB (for wake on USB), which we were getting wrong - | > | and it wouldn't wake up right. | > | > Would that be different from building a kernel without USB and other | > devices. I tried that again and it got stuck on resume. | > | > I could try to kldload usb and then unload it. | | You need the i915kms from 11-CURRENT for suspend/resume to work properly | on the T540p. It does not work at all otherwise. Trust me, I've tried | everything. Yep, have i915kms. My BIOS is version GMET71WW (2.19). I have the quad core CPU and the 2880x1620 LCD. My kernel is based on r297366M. I'm booting in UEFI mode with vt and have tried non-UEFI with vt before and it didn't work. Thanks, Doug A. From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Fri Apr 1 02:48:53 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F4ADAE5D8B for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 02:48:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C0231764; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 02:48:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from FreeBSD.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 707E01512; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 02:48:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 02:48:49 +0000 From: Glen Barber To: Doug Ambrisko Cc: Adrian Chadd , "freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org" , David Christensen , Ian Smith , Torfinn Ingolfsen Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? Message-ID: <20160401024849.GC81593@FreeBSD.org> References: <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> <20160331222951.GA81396@ambrisko.com> <20160401022459.GA17837@ambrisko.com> <20160401023747.GB81593@FreeBSD.org> <20160401024543.GA19980@ambrisko.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VywGB/WGlW4DM4P8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20160401024543.GA19980@ambrisko.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 11.0-CURRENT amd64 X-SCUD-Definition: Sudden Completely Unexpected Dataloss X-SULE-Definition: Sudden Unexpected Learning Event X-PEKBAC-Definition: Problem Exists, Keyboard Between Admin/Computer User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 02:48:53 -0000 --VywGB/WGlW4DM4P8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 07:45:43PM -0700, Doug Ambrisko wrote: > | You need the i915kms from 11-CURRENT for suspend/resume to work properly > | on the T540p. It does not work at all otherwise. Trust me, I've tried > | everything. >=20 > Yep, have i915kms. You need i915kms from 11-CURRENT, not 10.x. Glen --VywGB/WGlW4DM4P8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJW/eGRAAoJEAMUWKVHj+KTY4cP/3xiMswAc81YQ6l4FWnumkxO HFwGVPdAgnwlMxi/qkNgsC9Ww7P3EcZWRc7R6QWj9G2by5fbA5KxAiPuKhJIc5v5 EUI2ThmJdc3GQivNn06BM3flq8PepoM5RkkaQFNByKfcTLSqqKdXKyHCBbTHzqFu c9mNf3/4mAfSFBKin30rpGRBOiR/08euIHN9Qj8FZlBwhM0kWNjTqRy+kQxjSd9S FmkOeVqxmW5Oo+FnB8WxzymVSmz+lhqv4WN5qRyWa6RiGJzpKymSw2kqH4h/LNkZ oHoE6KWlk4nNZ/tflU5L4QTbK6K9a7Ci9pGVu9UtcWGou1k8bhIdrRs7esGb/YOp 5ZIN/jSRuNDKu7Kv4qy0zZosdDO/BVjFs27hk+qLpFMrprPlU62xRydHiDz3CMhO 18qXFyVuWNRPdhG60hejjeo0ZWx86v5qhTj/Bh1isWzHbXdZZidPG09Ctiqxi3QF WKvMDuIdk2yR0i/ix0lz+b2+fNcxr8luahQ5RYPHXn64sRlUkg+Ke3rA0Ca9KHsh IjILrtZQAGVpbrI+GDfofk383nr5F2MeH/dwy+FcmRaAECZO4+Gr+qPc7dmJaCNm SU9+fD2BpEoeCwYkmwepbip7HkKvB6CXIGb2jZqiBWXABopokN2rUlXEr/nIq7ZP 2zYDBhybKC2aD0HzZa62 =0suq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VywGB/WGlW4DM4P8-- From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Fri Apr 1 03:02:47 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B7F2AE4164 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 03:02:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) Received: from mail.ambrisko.com (mail.ambrisko.com [70.91.206.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2FE9105C; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 03:02:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) X-Ambrisko-Me: Yes Received: from server2.ambrisko.com (HELO internal.ambrisko.com) ([192.168.1.2]) by ironport.ambrisko.com with ESMTP; 31 Mar 2016 20:17:09 -0700 Received: from ambrisko.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by internal.ambrisko.com (8.14.9/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u3132klB023325; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:02:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by ambrisko.com (8.14.9/8.14.4/Submit) id u3132jNm023323; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:02:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:02:45 -0700 From: Doug Ambrisko To: Glen Barber Cc: Adrian Chadd , "freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org" , David Christensen , Ian Smith , Torfinn Ingolfsen Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? Message-ID: <20160401030245.GA21908@ambrisko.com> References: <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> <20160331222951.GA81396@ambrisko.com> <20160401022459.GA17837@ambrisko.com> <20160401023747.GB81593@FreeBSD.org> <20160401024543.GA19980@ambrisko.com> <20160401024849.GC81593@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20160401024849.GC81593@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 03:02:47 -0000 On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 02:48:49AM +0000, Glen Barber wrote: | On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 07:45:43PM -0700, Doug Ambrisko wrote: | > | You need the i915kms from 11-CURRENT for suspend/resume to work properly | > | on the T540p. It does not work at all otherwise. Trust me, I've tried | > | everything. | > | > Yep, have i915kms. | | You need i915kms from 11-CURRENT, not 10.x. I said in a prior email I was running -current. Copyright (c) 1992-2016 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD is a registered trademark of The FreeBSD Foundation. FreeBSD 11.0-CURRENT #1 r297366M: Wed Mar 30 13:35:46 PDT 2016 ambrisko@current:/data/home/ambrisko/svn/head3/sys/amd64/compile/GENERIC-NODEBUG amd64 FreeBSD clang version 3.7.1 (tags/RELEASE_371/final 255217) 20151225 VT(efifb): resolution 2048x1200 CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4810MQ CPU @ 2.80GHz (2793.59-MHz K8-class CPU) Origin="GenuineIntel" Id=0x306c3 Family=0x6 Model=0x3c Stepping=3 Features=0xbfebfbff Features2=0x7ffafbff AMD Features=0x2c100800 AMD Features2=0x21 Structured Extended Features=0x27ab XSAVE Features=0x1 VT-x: PAT,HLT,MTF,PAUSE,EPT,UG,VPID TSC: P-state invariant, performance statistics real memory = 8589934592 (8192 MB) avail memory = 8136851456 (7759 MB) Event timer "LAPIC" quality 600 ACPI APIC Table: FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor System Detected: 8 CPUs FreeBSD/SMP: 1 package(s) x 4 core(s) x 2 SMT threads I did say that I had a borrowed W541 working with suspend/resume with 10.x a while ago. I didn't have time to test it with -current. Thanks, Doug A. From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Fri Apr 1 03:06:54 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 812C7AE425C for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 03:06:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E0A511E7; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 03:06:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from FreeBSD.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9019A1A4B; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 03:06:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 03:06:51 +0000 From: Glen Barber To: Doug Ambrisko Cc: Adrian Chadd , "freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org" , David Christensen , Ian Smith , Torfinn Ingolfsen Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? Message-ID: <20160401030651.GE81593@FreeBSD.org> References: <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> <20160331222951.GA81396@ambrisko.com> <20160401022459.GA17837@ambrisko.com> <20160401023747.GB81593@FreeBSD.org> <20160401024543.GA19980@ambrisko.com> <20160401024849.GC81593@FreeBSD.org> <20160401030245.GA21908@ambrisko.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="kA1LkgxZ0NN7Mz3A" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20160401030245.GA21908@ambrisko.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 11.0-CURRENT amd64 X-SCUD-Definition: Sudden Completely Unexpected Dataloss X-SULE-Definition: Sudden Unexpected Learning Event X-PEKBAC-Definition: Problem Exists, Keyboard Between Admin/Computer User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 03:06:54 -0000 --kA1LkgxZ0NN7Mz3A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 08:02:45PM -0700, Doug Ambrisko wrote: > On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 02:48:49AM +0000, Glen Barber wrote: > | On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 07:45:43PM -0700, Doug Ambrisko wrote: > | > | You need the i915kms from 11-CURRENT for suspend/resume to work pro= perly > | > | on the T540p. It does not work at all otherwise. Trust me, I've t= ried > | > | everything. > | >=20 > | > Yep, have i915kms. > |=20 > | You need i915kms from 11-CURRENT, not 10.x. >=20 > I said in a prior email I was running -current. >=20 The subject says 10.2. I am too far behind on email to be fully caught up at this point. > I did say that I had a borrowed W541 working with suspend/resume with > 10.x a while ago. I didn't have time to test it with -current. >=20 I will look at the dmesg(8) output first chance I can. I am sure I have some non-default settings that allow things to be "just fine" for me. Also, are you using the xf86-video-intel driver? Glen --kA1LkgxZ0NN7Mz3A Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJW/eXLAAoJEAMUWKVHj+KTi54P/3fzESUTtnZDYJUTfUF41aSy Yxa2Cl/Xj0by7+luX1FZIPzmYyCExEndsiJrw4CS7humG3B/ychfQYheHwXXxNtG Rfbd/WPg06OlEzDxTSorrY+Ato1Ahvenzo3s+WaMf3HDNhM6DY4MMDoWVgggfg9K zedynoBjm+BzBKNnGFn5jf+1zBb2bPQgZqNwE5pcjD4BaG+12nGCfcDTgenldx3u dbrJO/qOXsfWGiOMpclfiKATZIT9zaaWSjkq4rLOsidpS9zI0dSeOeEakqs5h5Jc JIXiFC+FdZxva/VjMpCcvfH2Kge0zpbzbyeDy/+4HVC4dm1tZYlsWMBF7fEskMjp ZeTiOiyWMwNNs1mqXRE+cGIUJjLi/fvWmxVaSkQ7vCmlnzi4Nl8nu44h4RGrfJyI 62Wfi7QlZ36MSeR5/tLiZM2BD7hxbUGR/i40k/9AlynYDXYGIw9riR6MxxkDftYO oHWH+gggSv3YkQCqLck1VuHAs97gPh4I0IXxmtrFE6uCjrXC6z1f41aN1JyQEYWb Hy4ltTFIk6Q3c49ipQ83rQFiRjCOlmgdDXJ2KkY79+mpBViRskpb9Fep5GfKf22j cEHRhObvSwaa20nfTQPyDZs9x7GR0yCG4RF4z8S77wqUdi1f3FsAfqJqis/owYti PeH1x7y4m1lLac4v8mL2 =I3NB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --kA1LkgxZ0NN7Mz3A-- From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Fri Apr 1 05:02:34 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35290AEA5A6 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 05:02:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io0-x22d.google.com (mail-io0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC2DC1008 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 05:02:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id q128so136929605iof.3 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:02:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=AEjqgQsL1U0/WOBmN0clRnWV5HpSAh49BP44ucHQbqw=; b=lvQecttt5I82+4o9C4E0MIXjwwnDLL3QLdJkSdQahrlc86MknTGi8rxcruOfr0Ls8f x+Bv+o0noHQGlaU0n9G/+OwsnzcB5xerUF0ja5/iwpePaMOL5pu4/yFPoHMFh1P25nHa zLqnpvXqqmY2IkuIpLxZTK8k6gDoY3Lj5uaubyohPI+pxU7SurawDIt4UsQm+ucwygab TLz6jVDAH2zbZKBVBJtJyDxemwUTtAvhF9OSafyncbNo9wAx+TbGOSqEHkA611vcx7yS HvW2ufEkqAv1t60KDmQZFx8e/lFdy5uAFyJVnFOjLiONeAMQ+WqDkkzH7heyn+Y2AZbP HHAA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=AEjqgQsL1U0/WOBmN0clRnWV5HpSAh49BP44ucHQbqw=; b=TxfjpSWHc/tXOpTP0k4T81NdpewzjzW9F7zI4ajb9apDumU0zZNXBRv9VcSuLS82Sn O5ImU0nGJWBuWF2wjuZgdBKNL45tF4UPvLOJPfLIVNw6+97sYi4rJY8POItmOfRGg6SO YW5/rEeWcvVMTgmNBHKXmxDg5Ya7r7EhDfR6AVGrDSfQR6xBaOqv/4HVlSQOeCJJy+a5 fSG10Ig3B5zEnw5pB8bO2WopwB8nme6i/N9tijeBCJg0gT0OspG9gsU6+D1UvsyP5Xhg mZSNriCRUrOVb2pigjgyQZlI1buUN0vQWgkEM+J5QpNHjUOMxcXRUazc/D0MFyKGS3Ye SCJQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJoGRS0q+1THOLWAfZYQGPncS/Vhg3r390L0/5yhL5L2JK6/irxv7KCG7XjZ7TMmOoTqETf2Oe9H6dyNw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.35.82 with SMTP id j79mr5683977ioj.123.1459486953238; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.14.19 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:02:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20160401022459.GA17837@ambrisko.com> References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> <20160331222951.GA81396@ambrisko.com> <20160401022459.GA17837@ambrisko.com> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:02:33 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? From: Adrian Chadd To: Doug Ambrisko Cc: Ian Smith , David Christensen , Torfinn Ingolfsen , "freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 05:02:34 -0000 Hm, and you've kldload i915kms , right? (I have a t540p right here. resumes fine now with i915kms loaded. but I don't boot efi and i don't use efi console because I load i915kms.) -adrian From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Fri Apr 1 06:40:34 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92968AEAEF4 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 06:40:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Received: from sola.nimnet.asn.au (paqi.nimnet.asn.au [115.70.110.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0424D16EB for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 06:40:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sola.nimnet.asn.au (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id u316ePUm037122; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 17:40:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 17:40:25 +1100 (EST) From: Ian Smith To: Adrian Chadd cc: Doug Ambrisko , David Christensen , Torfinn Ingolfsen , "freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20160401173402.I39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> <20160331222951.GA81396@ambrisko.com> <20160401022459.GA17837@ambrisko.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 06:40:34 -0000 On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:02:38 -0700, Adrian Chadd wrote: > Hm, and you've kldload i915kms , right? > > (I have a t540p right here. resumes fine now with i915kms loaded. but > I don't boot efi and i don't use efi console because I load i915kms.) Pardon my (so far blissful) ignorance of UEFI booting, but once booted, should / could how you originally booted affect suspend / resume? cheers, Ian From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Fri Apr 1 13:51:17 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 422CFAEBA05 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 13:51:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) Received: from mail.ambrisko.com (mail.ambrisko.com [70.91.206.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A6FC18C0 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 13:51:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) X-Ambrisko-Me: Yes Received: from server2.ambrisko.com (HELO internal.ambrisko.com) ([192.168.1.2]) by ironport.ambrisko.com with ESMTP; 01 Apr 2016 07:05:39 -0700 Received: from ambrisko.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by internal.ambrisko.com (8.14.9/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u31DpG4t013201; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 06:51:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by ambrisko.com (8.14.9/8.14.4/Submit) id u31DpFNC013199; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 06:51:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 06:51:15 -0700 From: Doug Ambrisko To: Adrian Chadd Cc: Ian Smith , David Christensen , Torfinn Ingolfsen , "freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? Message-ID: <20160401135115.GA11934@ambrisko.com> References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> <20160331222951.GA81396@ambrisko.com> <20160401022459.GA17837@ambrisko.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 13:51:17 -0000 On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:02:33PM -0700, Adrian Chadd wrote: | Hm, and you've kldload i915kms , right? | | (I have a t540p right here. resumes fine now with i915kms loaded. but | I don't boot efi and i don't use efi console because I load i915kms.) Maybe we can swap drives at the next BAFAG? Thanks, Doug A. From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Fri Apr 1 14:45:07 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2686AEBDBA for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 14:45:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ig0-x22f.google.com (mail-ig0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA29F18B8 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 14:45:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ig0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id f1so3595655igr.1 for ; Fri, 01 Apr 2016 07:45:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=CD8Ai91EbRI583cVRI3aDTKtC8QTX55rHhCGSgmK1cE=; b=V3Z1yWOIG7afLbV/Ip08UBwu8zFbnf0PgijrjGV28WtdYADq+PI+5l1B8m/vJdOelW SYXwpO3PTL5oQa5S6IGwdaRpU5ysYhfwXZNxO0MqrlaC3Tn3mChoXW/x/VjP49GI4r0+ GoMc0FYLp+aeveDAftbJiJCbPWFp59cxDPkQI0koI/h+iJk/EwwwvMNKAihvkqBikI1d OU5zXA/sGlvbUquSepRRh3zHKrDkDIZCynE3+2QufQTGmGHrOgMr3YhnZC/4TWe9HUQI Fod3uIyhCKMBc15ehWsjIvcXsrmHZf4mZYZ2V8b3jv9yH4uYuTrFWcAFlxxJ2H2qPWs5 uZ5w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=CD8Ai91EbRI583cVRI3aDTKtC8QTX55rHhCGSgmK1cE=; b=K5fbVxXBMo7V9+EEaB2R0q4z/oLxZQ/QnRx80VpzX+RiJD4cqNxEB4sS7C0NjfN8cr 0XHegb6AmYqyNZudp7jY3jGcTYLWjCnhyxhgbOsw4k7wiRGB25IOHzdtI2tD1l/7aaYY ftjZgJulODRzYJW9igGjwR+v+9dkB2XVTjRV0uvug3I7O0H/vwte89OcfBDjeiHV8+j8 6zWNdwj2BPPslYVQXdYTs7hLRxrL8b44W7gwBhH5HOvz3vduxIyoo5ItKsghzqtArbXS IFEPhu9YUvfp8fFwtQClDG6UHgRmQxeVcN6EXq+juPws2vw2QnDKKLDHZ6xNFm4URpMi LRgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJV8TTbbdNsks0cYXykYwAGaKZ1Xa9SaeUjRbNWfmiDOlokeLAqe0NJ+SRMxgRbXgHjVxLip1sbsmTjLQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.8.101 with SMTP id q5mr3710547iga.22.1459521906913; Fri, 01 Apr 2016 07:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.14.19 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 07:45:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20160401135115.GA11934@ambrisko.com> References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> <20160331222951.GA81396@ambrisko.com> <20160401022459.GA17837@ambrisko.com> <20160401135115.GA11934@ambrisko.com> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 07:45:06 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? From: Adrian Chadd To: Doug Ambrisko Cc: Ian Smith , David Christensen , Torfinn Ingolfsen , "freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 14:45:08 -0000 On 1 April 2016 at 06:51, Doug Ambrisko wrote: > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:02:33PM -0700, Adrian Chadd wrote: > | Hm, and you've kldload i915kms , right? > | > | (I have a t540p right here. resumes fine now with i915kms loaded. but > | I don't boot efi and i don't use efi console because I load i915kms.) > > Maybe we can swap drives at the next BAFAG? yup -a > Thanks, > > Doug A. From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Sat Apr 2 02:54:16 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F710B00290 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 02:54:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [184.105.128.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6BA87129D for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 02:54:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from ::ffff:99.100.19.101 ([99.100.19.101]) by holgerdanske.com for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 19:54:08 -0700 Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> From: David Christensen Message-ID: <56FF3465.7090804@holgerdanske.com> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 19:54:29 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/38.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 02:54:16 -0000 On 03/31/2016 05:22 AM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: > 4. Why do you want to have an optical drive built into your laptop? Do you use optical media that often? For me, I use optical media rarely these days, so a usb connected optical reader / burner is enough. a. So I can boot from disc -- for installation and running live discs. b. So I can burn discs -- music to CD, video to DVD/ BD, data to whatever size makes sense. c. So I can read discs. David From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Sat Apr 2 03:19:12 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7939EB008DD for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 03:19:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [184.105.128.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D9361F66 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 03:19:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from ::ffff:99.100.19.101 ([99.100.19.101]) by holgerdanske.com for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 20:19:07 -0700 Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> From: David Christensen Message-ID: <56FF3A40.1020604@holgerdanske.com> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 20:19:28 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/38.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 03:19:12 -0000 On 03/31/2016 07:05 AM, Ian Smith wrote: > Explore the wiki: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Laptops I saw that -- only two listed models seem to pass the tabulated criteria OOTB: 1. Thinkpad X201 -- maximum RAM is 8 GB, which is insufficient: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd010141 2. Thinkpad X220 -- maximum RAM is 8 GB, which is insufficient: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd015812 > > For an example of something not much older that might tick a lot of your > boxes: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Laptops/Thinkpad_T540p https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd100413 That looks appealing. Is anyone running FreeBSD 10.2 with Xfce on that? David From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Sat Apr 2 03:23:06 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C3A0B00A61 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 03:23:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [184.105.128.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5E75511F4 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 03:23:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from ::ffff:99.100.19.101 ([99.100.19.101]) by holgerdanske.com for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 20:23:03 -0700 Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> From: David Christensen Message-ID: <56FF3B2D.3010307@holgerdanske.com> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 20:23:25 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/38.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 03:23:06 -0000 On 03/31/2016 02:49 PM, Doug Ambrisko wrote: > My T540p suspends fine but doesn't resume. AMT says it came out of > resume but the power button says it didn't. AMT seems to be broken > such that I can't get a serial connection. I was hoping that I could > get a serial connect to help debug it. I tried upgrading the firmware > and that didn't help. Linux suspends and resumes just fine. Graphics > works fine with the latest stuff. I borred a W541 a while back and it > resumed with 10 but I don't have access to it now. I can live without suspend (to RAM?) or hibernate (to HDD/SSD). Does it run FreeBSD 10.2 with Xfce, desktop productivity applications, encryption, and virtualization OOTB? David From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Sat Apr 2 03:36:27 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7425DAEB098 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 03:36:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [IPv6:2001:470:0:19b::b869:801b]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 655701821 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 03:36:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from ::ffff:99.100.19.101 ([99.100.19.101]) by holgerdanske.com for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2016 20:36:23 -0700 Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org References: <20160401003029.F39547@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20160331214931.GA65904@ambrisko.com> <20160331222951.GA81396@ambrisko.com> <20160401022459.GA17837@ambrisko.com> <20160401023747.GB81593@FreeBSD.org> <20160401024543.GA19980@ambrisko.com> <20160401024849.GC81593@FreeBSD.org> <20160401030245.GA21908@ambrisko.com> From: David Christensen Message-ID: <56FF3E4C.8020009@holgerdanske.com> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 20:36:44 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/38.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20160401030245.GA21908@ambrisko.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 03:36:27 -0000 On 03/31/2016 08:02 PM, Doug Ambrisko wrote: > I did say that I had a borrowed W541 working with suspend/resume with > 10.x a while ago. I didn't have time to test it with -current. http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/w-series/w541/ That's a powerful laptop, but I avoid NVIDIA hardware. David From owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Sat Apr 2 10:45:32 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690CEAECE5D for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 10:45:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from torfinn.ingolfsen@getmail.no) Received: from bouvier.getmail.no (bouvier.getmail.no [84.210.184.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 284491D6D for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 10:45:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from torfinn.ingolfsen@getmail.no) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bouvier.getmail.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id E731A486B2 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:45:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bouvier.getmail.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (bouvier.get.c.bitbit.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id Qf2Pe5YS9h-K for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:45:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bouvier.getmail.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7574348741 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:45:22 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.8.4 bouvier.getmail.no 7574348741 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=getmail.no; s=8A9C8B4C-D727-11E2-8095-B6466E6B3FA2; t=1459593922; bh=jWsuKEINPI/huSeSCGD2GjVgLoW28Ho6ndikIORq9Co=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Mime-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4dWcpexaNT0NbZQDKHTCmIlur3fl0dXsfldU41qGYJ8hQvfLlg9OlGdBv3YjdwQfg 3VabKOA2RYWZjNDSYPe5qzWu/z9+5N4BLjASz5kFESCI0CkNGMqIbz0oT0kcCK3I+7 /ysbvyuflkTaTqkH/mCs0w/kQN47XS/vRkrqrum0= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at bouvier.get.c.bitbit.net Received: from bouvier.getmail.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (bouvier.get.c.bitbit.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id I4kbHIDEj7rd for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:45:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from kg-core1.kg4.no (cm-84.215.226.9.getinternet.no [84.215.226.9]) by bouvier.getmail.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4419C486B2 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:45:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 12:45:15 +0200 From: Torfinn Ingolfsen To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recommended laptop for FreeBSD 10.2 Xfce workstation? Message-Id: <20160402124515.298a6c3a8da16cd571daf1b6@getmail.no> In-Reply-To: <56FF3465.7090804@holgerdanske.com> References: <56F6290E.10500@holgerdanske.com> <20160331142243.6e81d13b04bb549362a1fea2@getmail.no> <56FF3465.7090804@holgerdanske.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.24.29; amd64-portbld-freebsd9.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 10:45:32 -0000 On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 19:54:29 -0700 David Christensen wrote: > On 03/31/2016 05:22 AM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: > > 4. Why do you want to have an optical drive built into your laptop? Do you use optical media that often? For me, I use optical media rarely these days, so a usb connected optical reader / burner is enough. > > a. So I can boot from disc -- for installation and running live discs. For me, this is writing an image to a usb stick and running / installing from that. It has been for several years now. These days, I is very rarely encounter machines that can't boot from usb. YMMV. > b. So I can burn discs -- music to CD, video to DVD/ BD, data to > whatever size makes sense. > > c. So I can read discs. For me, these activities happen seldom enough that an external writer with usb connection is good enough. Again, YMMV. -- Torfinn Ingolfsen