From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Fri Aug 5 15:32:46 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA2F8BB03B4 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2016 15:32:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA1718D6 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2016 15:32:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id B9FC9BB03B2; Fri, 5 Aug 2016 15:32:46 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B98EBBB03B0; Fri, 5 Aug 2016 15:32:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (gate2.funkthat.com [208.87.223.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gold.funkthat.com", Issuer "gold.funkthat.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98E0618D4; Fri, 5 Aug 2016 15:32:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gold.funkthat.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id u75FWb4A016924 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Aug 2016 08:32:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by gold.funkthat.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id u75FWawU016922; Fri, 5 Aug 2016 08:32:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 08:32:36 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Adrian Chadd Cc: Michelle Sullivan , Anna Wilcox , freebsd-arch , Marius Strobl , Sean Bruno , Jordan Hubbard , sparc64@freebsd.org, Warner Losh Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 Message-ID: <20160805153236.GA16908@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: Adrian Chadd , Michelle Sullivan , Anna Wilcox , freebsd-arch , Marius Strobl , Sean Bruno , Jordan Hubbard , sparc64@freebsd.org, Warner Losh References: <64302b19-9f33-4267-af44-7fc30ea4bf3d@email.android.com> <56434F34.6040707@sorbs.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 9.1-PRERELEASE amd64 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 54BA 873B 6515 3F10 9E88 9322 9CB1 8F74 6D3F A396 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ X-Resume: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/resume.html X-TipJar: bitcoin:13Qmb6AeTgQecazTWph4XasEsP7nGRbAPE X-to-the-FBI-CIA-and-NSA: HI! HOW YA DOIN? can i haz chizburger? User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.1 (2016-04-27) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (gold.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 05 Aug 2016 08:32:38 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2016 15:32:46 -0000 Adrian Chadd wrote this message on Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 07:29 -0800: > > FreeBSD has an opportunity to fill the void in the secondhand Oracle > > (Sun) Hardware market if people want to take it.... but I seriously > > don't see why anyone would buy new Oracle boxes and shove FreeBSD on > > them - unless their admins already manage FreeBSD on older + Intel hardware. > > > > As always, someone has to write and debug the code. > > Users are only as good as the revenue to generate to cover > development/debugging/deployment costs. > > So if you're a sparc64 user, how much would you be willing to pay for > freebsd/sparc64 support and development? > > I'm all for keeping an architecture like sparc around, as long as > there's active development and active users. MIPS has both. ARM has > both. Powerpc has both. Sparc is missing some active developers, but > it has plenty of FreeBSD users that speak up (and more users that only > speak up privately.) So, if you want to see sparc64 support continue, > this requires a grass roots effort to get more development happening - > either users need to step up, or someone has to start contributing > money. If you care, then give donations to the FreeBSD Foundation, and say you want/need sparc64 and/or sun4v support... Or find a developer to pay for the work... These are the straight forward ways to keep sparc64 alive... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not." From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Fri Aug 5 22:27:28 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9649BB0040 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2016 22:27:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B017B1766 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2016 22:27:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id AF70FBB003E; Fri, 5 Aug 2016 22:27:28 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9D7BB003D; Fri, 5 Aug 2016 22:27:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from slim.berklix.org (slim.berklix.org [94.185.90.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "slim.berklix.org", Issuer "slim.berklix.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E11C1764; Fri, 5 Aug 2016 22:27:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (pD9FE9C82.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.254.156.130]) (authenticated bits=128) by slim.berklix.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id u75MRDsq085194 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 6 Aug 2016 00:27:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id u75MRAHS006682; Sat, 6 Aug 2016 00:27:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id u75MQGbj075918; Sat, 6 Aug 2016 00:26:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201608052226.u75MQGbj075918@fire.js.berklix.net> To: John-Mark Gurney cc: Adrian Chadd , sparc64@freebsd.org, Anna Wilcox , freebsd-arch , Sean Bruno , Michelle Sullivan , Marius Strobl , Jordan Hubbard Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.eu BSD Unix Linux Consultants, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.eu/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.eu/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message "Fri, 05 Aug 2016 08:32:36 -0700." <20160805153236.GA16908@funkthat.com> Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2016 00:26:16 +0200 X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2016 22:27:28 -0000 Hi, Reference: > From: John-Mark Gurney > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 08:32:36 -0700 John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Adrian Chadd wrote this message on Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 07:29 -0800: > > > FreeBSD has an opportunity to fill the void in the secondhand Oracle > > > (Sun) Hardware market if people want to take it.... but I seriously > > > don't see why anyone would buy new Oracle boxes and shove FreeBSD on > > > them - unless their admins already manage FreeBSD on older + Intel hardware. > > > > > > > As always, someone has to write and debug the code. > > > > Users are only as good as the revenue to generate to cover > > development/debugging/deployment costs. > > > > So if you're a sparc64 user, how much would you be willing to pay for > > freebsd/sparc64 support and development? > > > > I'm all for keeping an architecture like sparc around, as long as > > there's active development and active users. MIPS has both. ARM has > > both. Powerpc has both. Sparc is missing some active developers, but > > it has plenty of FreeBSD users that speak up (and more users that only > > speak up privately.) So, if you want to see sparc64 support continue, > > this requires a grass roots effort to get more development happening - > > either users need to step up, or someone has to start contributing > > money. > > If you care, then give donations to the FreeBSD Foundation, and say > you want/need sparc64 and/or sun4v support... > > Or find a developer to pay for the work... FYI Global geograhic index: http://www.berklix.com/consultants/table.html > These are the straight > forward ways to keep sparc64 alive... > > -- > John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Linux Unix Sys Eng Consultant Munich Reply below, Prefix '> '. Plain text, No .doc, base64, HTML, quoted-printable. http://berklix.eu/brexit/#stolen_votes From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Sat Aug 6 05:19:23 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBE75BB0C1B for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2016 05:19:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kmacybsd@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B973E1CA0 for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2016 05:19:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kmacybsd@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id B52BFBB0C19; Sat, 6 Aug 2016 05:19:23 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0047BB0C18; Sat, 6 Aug 2016 05:19:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kmacybsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io0-x22d.google.com (mail-io0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E33B1C9F; Sat, 6 Aug 2016 05:19:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kmacybsd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id b62so317198573iod.3; Fri, 05 Aug 2016 22:19:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=XYBgyGTph1tIWCYxLUYGKn+j1s7aeIWKVESQom1RAUY=; b=GCz9wrEEqVDX/GWLFA1UHwQe9dJoNtVFl0tz01IAImGxS+1E9V/WtO3f8MPqt2s5QB nsJY4M556/MU/+mvQcrkiOHUM9KVtnuMBqR65MTVgrFMM2T7V7d67Tn2chJ+Fv18CbEG HkjZAYtbJQfFj7Eg2CDxCUAn3YM0qo/wJSB8Oqtjg0AnHOIMZMS7Gheo6fUGRWyS/FmC n1HCIsjXsDYvtPYDUgpOhmvZqGlAS+od+HzAVwGEbzmRQujp6ERGdLJlwmZzSQrRTTmt XYkcQHxn1dzm0xrSPhq29nm7nKGoAwQIbxmrCuYZ4JhjUqQuFCYWU0GMFFhkjp8PDbyD LbRw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to; bh=XYBgyGTph1tIWCYxLUYGKn+j1s7aeIWKVESQom1RAUY=; b=f2YsZS4BIo9EqW0NIDgSVzo2BBWtvPKqcrsPemFY2o2pvetH2cOL1WzjCfcl64Lpxv 3KFEjDJScb/kSxL2gfGDlVErWBSV61zdYumFKSzW/So1GA/woYT5CnUvvGXjOuPYGoGs la3jyP2rh/aWtD9rVWnyrwbMg9yomTa0MkIw+LaJKBZGRUDNuDVKaRhv4HE4usQ5TAH5 Y67MOxKpvTeE21LaRKtdzr3pLHKXaMTlF92yTzSurCuHD9hm990Q9PaU8EPSSuz0Viwz J4snBZn1j51QBrsBCS1Q9ZEhfh0OoMdz0kVKyn2U26BzAjRBePkE1zyP/7K2APjpRaRf kJkg== X-Gm-Message-State: AEkoouvtdfFGpjk5WxJYQFHEFdMEavllMxnggX+3wV9BqHHN8VmcwokQjGG+TS5pBMigPKW2L4JmkIdAco0Bvg== X-Received: by 10.107.140.205 with SMTP id o196mr93192214iod.42.1470460762766; Fri, 05 Aug 2016 22:19:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: kmacybsd@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.143.11 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Aug 2016 22:19:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20160805153236.GA16908@funkthat.com> References: <64302b19-9f33-4267-af44-7fc30ea4bf3d@email.android.com> <56434F34.6040707@sorbs.net> <20160805153236.GA16908@funkthat.com> From: "K. Macy" Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 22:19:22 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: SzeFmZuqNUEqWPJuQ6DkDzV032A Message-ID: Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 To: Adrian Chadd , Michelle Sullivan , Anna Wilcox , freebsd-arch , Marius Strobl , Sean Bruno , Jordan Hubbard , sparc64@freebsd.org, Warner Losh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2016 05:19:24 -0000 >> I'm all for keeping an architecture like sparc around, as long as >> there's active development and active users. MIPS has both. ARM has >> both. Powerpc has both. Sparc is missing some active developers, but >> it has plenty of FreeBSD users that speak up (and more users that only >> speak up privately.) So, if you want to see sparc64 support continue, >> this requires a grass roots effort to get more development happening - >> either users need to step up, or someone has to start contributing >> money. > > If you care, then give donations to the FreeBSD Foundation, and say > you want/need sparc64 and/or sun4v support... That isn't how a c3 works. There are plenty of useful functions that the FF provides. Specifically directing donations is not one of them. > Or find a developer to pay for the work... These are the straight > forward ways to keep sparc64 alive... This is the only path that's guaranteed success. But it's unlikely that the user base is going to be able to offset much more than a small portion of the financial opportunity cost.