From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Wed Sep 7 21:57:57 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB9A8BD01B1 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2016 21:57:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marius@alchemy.franken.de) Received: from alchemy.franken.de (alchemy.franken.de [194.94.249.214]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "alchemy.franken.de", Issuer "alchemy.franken.de" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AA70D6A for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2016 21:57:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marius@alchemy.franken.de) Received: from alchemy.franken.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alchemy.franken.de (8.15.2/8.15.2/ALCHEMY.FRANKEN.DE) with ESMTPS id u87Lp6F1049134 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 7 Sep 2016 23:51:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marius@alchemy.franken.de) Received: (from marius@localhost) by alchemy.franken.de (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id u87Lp6xH049133; Wed, 7 Sep 2016 23:51:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marius) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2016 23:51:06 +0200 From: Marius Strobl To: Chris Cc: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: FreeBSD Sparc 11.0 RC1 Install Problem Message-ID: <20160907215106.GA49013@alchemy.franken.de> References: <57C6F3B9.6080705@gfsys.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <57C6F3B9.6080705@gfsys.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (alchemy.franken.de [0.0.0.0]); Wed, 07 Sep 2016 23:51:06 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2016 21:57:57 -0000 On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 03:11:53PM +0000, Chris wrote: > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: FreeBSD Sparc 11.0 RC1 Install Problem > Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 15:07:21 +0000 > From: Chris > Reply-To: syseng@gfsys.co.uk > Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc > > Hi, > > Have just installed the above on a V215 with a minor issue. > After install shutdown, then reboot, the system hangs after > the UHUB2 line. An earlier messages says: > > nexus0: type unknown, no driver attached > > Have been trying out various earlier releases over the > past few months and one of the tips to solve an Xorg > problem with console was to include the line: > > kern.vty=vt, in /boot/loader.conf > > This didn't solve the problem in the previous case, > but was the clue here. > > When this is included, the system boots as normal. Don't > know if this is a bug that has already been fixed, but > syscons appears to be needed to run Xorg, isn't present > and the system, and 11rc2 defaults to it. Just where is the > code for syscons and how can it be included ?. A complete > newbie to all this, embedded systems here, but the build > procedures and Makefiles are well above my pay grade at > present. > Hi, while syscons(4) and vt(4) don't play well together on sparc64 when both are compiled into the same kernel (as it's the case for 11.0-RC2 GENERIC), I can't actually trigger a boot hang with that combo. Unfortunately, the information provided above also doesn't make much sense; e. g. vt(4) already is the default with 11.0-RC2 GENERIC so setting it via loader.conf is redundant and it remains unclear what vt(4) is doing, i. e. whether it is driving some hardware (or at least trying to). How did you obtain the nexus0 line or see that the boot hangs after uhub2; are you using LOM or serial console? Is there actually a graphics card in that machine? What happens if you use a custom built kernel without vt(4)? Marius From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Wed Sep 7 23:26:21 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B613BD0753 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2016 23:26:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from syseng@gfsys.co.uk) Received: from cust-smtp-auth1.fasthosts.net.uk (smtp-out-60.livemail.co.uk [213.171.216.60]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24004BF4 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2016 23:26:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from syseng@gfsys.co.uk) Received: from [192.9.200.226] (unknown [81.133.228.57]) by cust-smtp-auth1.fasthosts.net.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D0AD2740D25; Thu, 8 Sep 2016 00:26:11 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <57D0A213.1050105@gfsys.co.uk> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2016 23:26:11 +0000 From: Chris User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; SunOS sun4u; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marius Strobl CC: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: FreeBSD Sparc 11.0 RC1 Install Problem References: <57C6F3B9.6080705@gfsys.co.uk> <20160907215106.GA49013@alchemy.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <20160907215106.GA49013@alchemy.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2016 23:26:21 -0000 On 09/07/16 21:51, Marius Strobl wrote: > On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 03:11:53PM +0000, Chris wrote: >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: FreeBSD Sparc 11.0 RC1 Install Problem >> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 15:07:21 +0000 >> From: Chris >> Reply-To: syseng@gfsys.co.uk >> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc >> >> Hi, >> >> Have just installed the above on a V215 with a minor issue. >> After install shutdown, then reboot, the system hangs after >> the UHUB2 line. An earlier messages says: >> >> nexus0: type unknown, no driver attached >> >> Have been trying out various earlier releases over the >> past few months and one of the tips to solve an Xorg >> problem with console was to include the line: >> >> kern.vty=vt, in /boot/loader.conf >> >> This didn't solve the problem in the previous case, >> but was the clue here. >> >> When this is included, the system boots as normal. Don't >> know if this is a bug that has already been fixed, but >> syscons appears to be needed to run Xorg, isn't present >> and the system, and 11rc2 defaults to it. Just where is the >> code for syscons and how can it be included ?. A complete >> newbie to all this, embedded systems here, but the build >> procedures and Makefiles are well above my pay grade at >> present. >> > > Hi, > > while syscons(4) and vt(4) don't play well together on sparc64 when > both are compiled into the same kernel (as it's the case for 11.0-RC2 > GENERIC), I can't actually trigger a boot hang with that combo. > Unfortunately, the information provided above also doesn't make much > sense; e. g. vt(4) already is the default with 11.0-RC2 GENERIC so > setting it via loader.conf is redundant and it remains unclear what > vt(4) is doing, i. e. whether it is driving some hardware (or at > least trying to). > How did you obtain the nexus0 line or see that the boot hangs after > uhub2; are you using LOM or serial console? Is there actually a > graphics card in that machine? What happens if you use a custom > built kernel without vt(4)? > > Marius > Hi, Thanks for the reply. I think I may have found the real cause, in that the problem showed up when I used the reboot command at the command line, rather than doing a power off and on via ilom or the power input. It's not really a serious issue, but suggests that that the reboot command is leaving some part of the hardware in an unexpected state prior to reboot. A power cycle of course, resets everything to a known state. The nexus line was among the stream of messages on a reboot and we are using ssh / terminal logins exclusively. There is a graphics card in the machine, a Sun XVR300, aka radeon 2250 with different firmware. It's not used at present though it does show up during boot as vga, fwir. Also seen by X, as far as it goes, before crashing. I've been away from it for a couple of days, but will try to get more info and report back. There is a sc line in the kernel config, but if there are conflicts, I guess it would be ok to remove that and other unneeded entries and rebuild the kernel ?. According to some docs, syscons needs the vga driver and another item in the kernel, neither of which are there at present, so it may be a good idea to remove it anyway. Will give it a try later this week... Regards, Chris From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Thu Sep 8 21:41:26 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8431BD27CD for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2016 21:41:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from syseng@gfsys.co.uk) Received: from cust-smtp-auth2.fasthosts.net.uk (smtp-out-60.livemail.co.uk [213.171.216.60]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E5F169B for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2016 21:41:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from syseng@gfsys.co.uk) Received: from [192.9.200.226] (unknown [81.133.228.57]) by cust-smtp-auth2.fasthosts.net.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 98BF87425A3; Thu, 8 Sep 2016 22:41:23 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <57D1DB03.2050800@gfsys.co.uk> Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2016 21:41:23 +0000 From: Chris User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; SunOS sun4u; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marius Strobl CC: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: FreeBSD Sparc 11.0 RC1 Install Problem References: <57C6F3B9.6080705@gfsys.co.uk> <20160907215106.GA49013@alchemy.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <20160907215106.GA49013@alchemy.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2016 21:41:26 -0000 On 09/07/16 21:51, Marius Strobl wrote: > > Hi, > > while syscons(4) and vt(4) don't play well together on sparc64 when > both are compiled into the same kernel (as it's the case for 11.0-RC2 > GENERIC), I can't actually trigger a boot hang with that combo. > Unfortunately, the information provided above also doesn't make much > sense; e. g. vt(4) already is the default with 11.0-RC2 GENERIC so > setting it via loader.conf is redundant and it remains unclear what > vt(4) is doing, i. e. whether it is driving some hardware (or at > least trying to). > How did you obtain the nexus0 line or see that the boot hangs after > uhub2; are you using LOM or serial console? Is there actually a > graphics card in that machine? What happens if you use a custom > built kernel without vt(4)? > > Marius > A bit more info. Rebuilt the kernel today with sc and some other unneeded stuff commented out. The system hangs using a command line reboot, so the problem is repeatable. Dropping into ilom and doing a reset produces the same result, but power off and back on and the system boots normally. System hangs after the last line below: > vent timer "tick" frequency 1504000000 Hz quality 1000 > Timecounters tick every 1.000 msec > usbus0: 12Mbps Full Speed USB v1.0 > usbus1: 12Mbps Full Speed USB v1.0 > ugen0.1: at usbus0 > uhub0: on usbus0 > ugen1.1: at usbus1 > uhub1: on usbus1 > usbus2: 480Mbps High Speed USB v2.0 > ugen2.1: at usbus2 > uhub2: on usbus2 > (da0:mpt0:0:0:0): UNMAPPED > da0 at mpt0 bus 0 scbus2 target 0 lun 0 > uhub0: 3 ports with 3 removable, self powered > da0: Fixed Direct Access SPC-4 SCSI device > uhub1: 3 ports with 3 removable, self powered > da0: Serial Number 000924F5B2JE PCV5B2JE > da0: 300.000MB/s transfers > da0: Command Queueing enabled > da0: 140009MB (286739329 512 byte sectors) > SMP: AP CPU #1 Launched! > cd0 at ata2 bus 0 scbus0 target 0 lun 0 > cd0: Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/da0a [rw]... > Removable CD-ROM SCSI device > cd0: 33.300MB/s transfers (UDMA2, ATAPI 12bytes, PIO 65534bytes) > cd0: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present > uhub2: 8 ports with 8 removable, self powered This is on a V215 machine and would expect the same on a 245, as it uses the same m/b. Haven't tried others... Chris From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Thu Sep 8 22:12:33 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98E24BD12F8 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2016 22:12:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marius@alchemy.franken.de) Received: from alchemy.franken.de (alchemy.franken.de [194.94.249.214]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "alchemy.franken.de", Issuer "alchemy.franken.de" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F4C5FD4 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2016 22:12:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marius@alchemy.franken.de) Received: from alchemy.franken.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alchemy.franken.de (8.15.2/8.15.2/ALCHEMY.FRANKEN.DE) with ESMTPS id u88MCNwX054339 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 9 Sep 2016 00:12:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marius@alchemy.franken.de) Received: (from marius@localhost) by alchemy.franken.de (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id u88MCNdY054338; Fri, 9 Sep 2016 00:12:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marius) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2016 00:12:23 +0200 From: Marius Strobl To: Chris Cc: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: FreeBSD Sparc 11.0 RC1 Install Problem Message-ID: <20160908221223.GQ15359@alchemy.franken.de> References: <57C6F3B9.6080705@gfsys.co.uk> <20160907215106.GA49013@alchemy.franken.de> <57D0A213.1050105@gfsys.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <57D0A213.1050105@gfsys.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (alchemy.franken.de [0.0.0.0]); Fri, 09 Sep 2016 00:12:23 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2016 22:12:33 -0000 On Wed, Sep 07, 2016 at 11:26:11PM +0000, Chris wrote: > On 09/07/16 21:51, Marius Strobl wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 03:11:53PM +0000, Chris wrote: > >> > >> -------- Original Message -------- > >> Subject: FreeBSD Sparc 11.0 RC1 Install Problem > >> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 15:07:21 +0000 > >> From: Chris > >> Reply-To: syseng@gfsys.co.uk > >> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> Have just installed the above on a V215 with a minor issue. > >> After install shutdown, then reboot, the system hangs after > >> the UHUB2 line. An earlier messages says: > >> > >> nexus0: type unknown, no driver attached > >> > >> Have been trying out various earlier releases over the > >> past few months and one of the tips to solve an Xorg > >> problem with console was to include the line: > >> > >> kern.vty=vt, in /boot/loader.conf > >> > >> This didn't solve the problem in the previous case, > >> but was the clue here. > >> > >> When this is included, the system boots as normal. Don't > >> know if this is a bug that has already been fixed, but > >> syscons appears to be needed to run Xorg, isn't present > >> and the system, and 11rc2 defaults to it. Just where is the > >> code for syscons and how can it be included ?. A complete > >> newbie to all this, embedded systems here, but the build > >> procedures and Makefiles are well above my pay grade at > >> present. > >> > > > > Hi, > > > > while syscons(4) and vt(4) don't play well together on sparc64 when > > both are compiled into the same kernel (as it's the case for 11.0-RC2 > > GENERIC), I can't actually trigger a boot hang with that combo. > > Unfortunately, the information provided above also doesn't make much > > sense; e. g. vt(4) already is the default with 11.0-RC2 GENERIC so > > setting it via loader.conf is redundant and it remains unclear what > > vt(4) is doing, i. e. whether it is driving some hardware (or at > > least trying to). > > How did you obtain the nexus0 line or see that the boot hangs after > > uhub2; are you using LOM or serial console? Is there actually a > > graphics card in that machine? What happens if you use a custom > > built kernel without vt(4)? > > > > Marius > > > > Hi, > > Thanks for the reply. I think I may have found the real cause, in > that the problem showed up when I used the reboot command at the > command line, rather than doing a power off and on via ilom or > the power input. It's not really a serious issue, but suggests > that that the reboot command is leaving some part of the hardware > in an unexpected state prior to reboot. A power cycle of course, > resets everything to a known state. Well, `reboot` causes the kernel to tell the firmware to boot from the same medium as previously used again. If this doesn't properly reset the hardware, that's a firmware bug. For example, machfb(4) for syscons(4) has a special handler which puts the display into standby prior to a reboot, otherwise certain machines just will hang when asked to boot again. What you are seening seems like similar problem. > The nexus line was among the stream of messages on a reboot and we > are using ssh / terminal logins exclusively. There is a graphics > card in the machine, a Sun XVR300, aka radeon 2250 with different > firmware. It's not used at present though it does show up during boot > as vga, fwir. Vgapci(4) is just a glue driver which is needed for some things and attaches to any PCI device which identifies as a display one if no more specific driver is able to handle that device. Vgapci(4) is not actually able to drive graphics hardware, though. > Also seen by X, as far as it goes, before crashing. Depending on the exact message, that like just means that X has detected that card on the PCI bus, but not necessarily that both kernel and X are able yo drive it. > I've been away from it for a couple of days, but will try to get more > info and report back. There is a sc line in the kernel config, > but if there are conflicts, I guess it would be ok to remove > that and other unneeded entries and rebuild the kernel ?. According > to some docs, syscons needs the vga driver and another item in the > kernel, neither of which are there at present, so it may be a good That documentation apparently is x86-centric; for sparc64, no VGA driver (probably the ISA one was meant in that documentation) is needed and creator(4) as well as machfb(4) are the syscons(4) drivers available, i. e. no specific driver for XVR300 so far. It would be great if you could test whether a kernel built without vt(4) also experiences the boot hang after a reboot. Marius From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Sat Sep 10 16:11:28 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E7CFBD4191 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2016 16:11:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from syseng@gfsys.co.uk) Received: from cust-smtp-auth1.fasthosts.net.uk (smtp-out-60.livemail.co.uk [213.171.216.60]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 536102C1 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2016 16:11:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from syseng@gfsys.co.uk) Received: from [192.9.200.226] (unknown [81.133.228.57]) by cust-smtp-auth1.fasthosts.net.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPA id BD73E740D42; Sat, 10 Sep 2016 17:11:17 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <57D430A5.3080002@gfsys.co.uk> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2016 16:11:17 +0000 From: Chris User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; SunOS sun4u; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marius Strobl , freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: FreeBSD Sparc 11.0 RC1 Install Problem References: <57C6F3B9.6080705@gfsys.co.uk> <20160907215106.GA49013@alchemy.franken.de> <57D0A213.1050105@gfsys.co.uk> <20160908221223.GQ15359@alchemy.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <20160908221223.GQ15359@alchemy.franken.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2016 16:11:28 -0000 On 09/08/16 22:12, Marius Strobl wrote: > > It would be great if you could test whether a kernel built without > vt(4) also experiences the boot hang after a reboot. > > Marius Hi, Thanks for the info. Digging a bit more into the reboot issue. The system stops just after the "uhub2: 8 ports..." line. A few lines prior to that we get: uhub2: EHCI etc, so copied the GENERIC conf file, comment out the ehci line, rebuilt and the problem went away. Tried a reboot from the command line 3 or 4 times and was ok in each case. Not familiar enough with the system at this stage to debug it, but ehci does seem connected in some way. As for vt and sc, rebuilt the kernel with either vt or sc commented out, -ehci and the system seems to boot okay in both cases. Don't know if it's connected with the ttyv* group, but they all show up in the process list in both cases. Have left sc commented out for now. Overall, it doesn't look like vt or sc are connected with the boot issue. The syscons questions were originally to do with Xorg logs, where the log complained about not being able to find a console. Trying to get X running with the dummy frame buffer, as part of a saga to get Xvnc working, so I could have a graphical login. Xvnc is installed, running via inetd and at the stage where a client can connect, but produces a blank grey screen at the client. Xvnc has it's own X server, but no info on how that connects to and runs apps, which it isn't doing at present. Conflicting info on the web, but Xvnc originally came from RealVnc and have a paid for license for their pc client, so may get in touch with them to see if they have any ideas. Anyway, now have a copy of the McKusick et al FreeBSD design book. S/h copy for 12 ukp delivered, so have no more excuse :-). Vol 2 of the FreebSD handbook also coming soon... Chris