From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun May 21 12:57:35 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DD06D7649E for ; Sun, 21 May 2017 12:57:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F11B21D18 for ; Sun, 21 May 2017 12:57:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id EDB48D7649B; Sun, 21 May 2017 12:57:34 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB698D7649A; Sun, 21 May 2017 12:57:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C07571D17; Sun, 21 May 2017 12:57:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1235) id EA53E399B; Sun, 21 May 2017 12:57:33 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 14:57:33 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: arch@freebsd.org Cc: doceng@freebsd.org, doc@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: The futur of the roff toolchain Message-ID: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7hq7von4owswjfay" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170428 (1.8.2) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 12:57:35 -0000 --7hq7von4owswjfay Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi all, I have been working for a while to try to import a modern roff toolchain into base. I didn't like the initial approach that consisted in simply removing all roff toolchain in base. Recap of the situation in base: * We have GNU roff version 1.19.2 in base (latest GPLv2 version). Lots of bug fixes has been made upstream in newer version (GPLv3) in particular regarding unicode but not only. (and we cannot update it anymore) * GNU roff is now only used to generate the documentation in share/doc and as a fallback for manpages which mandoc does not support. On the manpages front: * No manpages in base are not supported by mandoc except groff manpages themselves * man(1) can fallback on ports version of groff if installed (for ports not providing manpages not compatible with mandoc) Alternatives to GNU roff: * Heirloom doctools (which I tried to import) licensed both CDDL/BSD (in C) * neartoff http://litcave.rudi.ir/ BSD licensed (in C) I went the road of using heirloom doctools it is 90% compatible with GNU roff, good enough for all our base roff based documents. After getting down that road for a while, including lots of patches sent upstream (thanks them for being so reactive and integrating them quickly as well as fixing the issues I wasn't able to fix myself quickly). The problem is there are lot of corner small corner cases where heirloom is different from GNU roff and hard to make it compatible. While this is corner cases, it breaks document generation for some large documents people are writing. Those users could use (and actually would benefit a lot from it) GNU roff from the ports tree, but have to be careful about the path of the tool they call to ensure only calling the one from GNU roff and not the one (with the same name) from heirloom doctools. Concerning neatroff it is barely compatible with GNU roff, so not an option (last I tested at least). I would like to change this approach and get back to the initial approach taken by others before I jumped in and I would like just entirely remove the roff toolchain from base and let people rely on GNU roff from ports. man(1) is already asking the user to install groff from ports if the manpage cannot be read with mandoc. No the problem left is documentations available in share/doc. I would like to push them elsewhere. Those documents are mostly useful for historical reason (hence we want to keep them) but not really for daily use of modern FreeBSD. Another issue with those documentation, they are installed as text/ascii version in base, which makes most of them not really readable (as the documents has not be written for a ascii/text target but more for a PDF/html view - using pic(1) for example) A plan was to push as sources in the svn doc repository and continue to build them. This approach also have an issue: over the time roff evolved a bit and while working on heirloom doctools import I had to fix a bunch of markup to make the rendering of those documents clean (also meaning almost noone should read them considering some were not really readable). What I want to propose now, it to render them as PDF (html?) once and push them somewhere (to be defined) as static document on our documentation website. Please doceng@ provide me a location where to push them. And then remove bsd.doc.mk from FreeBSD 12.0 along with the removal of groff. I also want to remove most of roff related tools (the one provided by toolchains available in ports) for which we kept a BSD version (not really maintained in base): namely: - checknr - vgrind - colcrt Only keeping: - col (useful in other places than roff) - soelim (also used for manpages and we have a clean BSD licensed version which is also now parts of mandoc) Best regards, Bapt --7hq7von4owswjfay Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEgOTj3suS2urGXVU3Y4mL3PG3PloFAlkhjrsACgkQY4mL3PG3 Plof0xAAp9HnRo/zDKuaxA9HJrs7XCBnjlC7rquZ2+Jkw5iNhLT1Toc8iA24/bHE IwgTg85oIDfssYwIfElr8QWHMarRHolFcOtypg+i6laF3CTLdRpi9zmVxW0ws7s8 0Tkt1FxwIAuZLLDydC9DXdsblCfvkaY4oMt9/A/62QuE2lsh1QroPRwfhdIhRNgR U+hr/b1s2kkDVNJ7z/cEx8YB/njiZIAtmhqNuVR+Ef37nhMyiuevPVCvuDp8qtu1 1kAvQ6TvII6XlyB15M8l/kf7CPFZt88Jy1Ku3wxwEpRy0t+TXA17kBY3KiS8UMys ANnkChdwIKZv65Vo039zlD2GB+yHCyTG4lD7XAiqnrveLqkADUHhLgzAuhRROYft AiQna1vYt/afXmZv8CcKCZkrd9yFo4kdI1pPgl+6pFovQU6nRTUGTibHyjzpHdGd uCtRt+0hSs0VfRtReFGNd7H7yJAFAesSbvum9au4qAguMq90IVx3yAZe10rFfPX1 fDPoL0JXk/aSSrN/j0blc6y1++pdsjnNIDktOuhyRjEMqVsJvZ8gQxeJSVRJK7Do UudXSxMEFBhUt8MiUv0Y0giUMnTnCKR/iFcgvrkNZ2796pP8p8HXZf30Po2xVKAj fFndsFENUI2VbpsjuPG6cdCAx/EipE1QO3RFWuDu4eTpkOHkNLY= =dx7e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7hq7von4owswjfay-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun May 21 19:22:26 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 279A1D7799D for ; Sun, 21 May 2017 19:22:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joel@vnode.se) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09612A18 for ; Sun, 21 May 2017 19:22:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joel@vnode.se) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 08AB6D77996; Sun, 21 May 2017 19:22:26 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08180D77995; Sun, 21 May 2017 19:22:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joel@vnode.se) Received: from smtp.opsify.se (smtp.opsify.se [IPv6:2a07:6c5::4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.opsify.se", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA5F0A13; Sun, 21 May 2017 19:22:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joel@vnode.se) Received: from ymer.vnode.se (62-20-154-136-no280.tbcn.telia.com [62.20.154.136]) by smtp.opsify.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BE4AF3879C2; Sun, 21 May 2017 21:22:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 21:22:21 +0200 From: Joel Dahl To: Baptiste Daroussin Cc: arch@freebsd.org, doceng@freebsd.org, doc@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The futur of the roff toolchain Message-ID: <20170521192221.GA74941@ymer.vnode.se> Mail-Followup-To: Baptiste Daroussin , arch@freebsd.org, doceng@freebsd.org, doc@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org References: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.8.0 (2017-02-23) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 19:22:26 -0000 On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 02:57:33PM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > I would like to change this approach and get back to the initial approach taken > by others before I jumped in and I would like just entirely remove the roff > toolchain from base and let people rely on GNU roff from ports. > > What I want to propose now, it to render them as PDF (html?) once and push them > somewhere (to be defined) as static document on our documentation website. > Please doceng@ provide me a location where to push them. > > And then remove bsd.doc.mk from FreeBSD 12.0 along with the removal of groff. Yes. I definitely support these ideas. :-) -- Joel From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun May 21 20:42:00 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A29DCD776BA for ; Sun, 21 May 2017 20:42:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaduk@mit.edu) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8337015D0 for ; Sun, 21 May 2017 20:42:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaduk@mit.edu) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 7FA49D776B7; Sun, 21 May 2017 20:42:00 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F0A3D776B6; Sun, 21 May 2017 20:42:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaduk@mit.edu) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (dmz-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu [18.9.25.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B6B5315CD; Sun, 21 May 2017 20:41:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaduk@mit.edu) X-AuditID: 1209190e-9a1ff70000005a99-68-5921fa5e4b3a Received: from mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu ( [18.7.62.36]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 97.3F.23193.E5AF1295; Sun, 21 May 2017 16:36:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id v4LKajwI031419; Sun, 21 May 2017 16:36:45 -0400 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id v4LKaen7026527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 21 May 2017 16:36:43 -0400 Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 15:36:40 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Baptiste Daroussin Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, doceng@FreeBSD.org, doc@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The future of the roff toolchain Message-ID: <20170521203640.GR39245@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.1 (2016-10-04) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprJKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixG6nohv/SzHSoGu9nsWSGfOYLX7/ushq MeHKDyaLqR93slr8e/ubyYHVY8an+SwBjFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglcGX/232MqWMZesWPDQvYG xiusXYycHBICJhLfvn5m62Lk4hASWMwksXrdD2YIZyOjxNbzTxkhnKtMEmsn3GQDaWERUJX4 M6kDzGYTUJNYv+IaM4gtIqApsfHbXhYQm1nAT+L8jD6wuLCArsSuffOZQGxeoHXLP/wAiwsJ WEqcP32YBSIuKHFy5hOoXi2JG/9eAtVzANnSEsv/cUCEtSWWLXwN1sopYCXRf2QBO4gtKqAs 8ffwPZYJjIKzkEyahWTSLIRJs5BMWsDIsopRNiW3Sjc3MTOnODVZtzg5MS8vtUjXWC83s0Qv NaV0EyMo1Dkl+XYwTmrwPsQowMGoxMN74odipBBrYllxZe4hRkkOJiVR3lczFSKF+JLyUyoz Eosz4otKc1KLDzFKcDArifDu+wZUzpuSWFmVWpQPk5LmYFES5xXXaIwQEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2C ycpwcChJ8Gr9BGoULEpNT61Iy8wpQUgzcXCCDOcBGr4G5Bbe4oLE3OLMdIj8KUZdjjn3vr5n EmLJy89LlRLnVQAZJABSlFGaBzcHlKIksvfXvGIUB3pLmNcMpIoHmN7gJr0CWsIEtMT6mTzI kpJEhJRUA2P51oO7j3Jr+unf8eQ8fWgTg7BIREte3JyfLC+8T2xTZDrkcUFh8oongismfLiR v2BL0VL7u18ltqvte7prVkblhAfnZLdvtC2sif63etndeU6vzBau/rqMKdhgTazTj3iBfJut 39csX3pVN/LH4bPL7hmKvw3Zo6N0sGN77gE1H9W17C1XJu/cpMRSnJFoqMVcVJwIAMbtW1Is AwAA X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 20:42:00 -0000 On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 02:57:33PM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >=20 > What I want to propose now, it to render them as PDF (html?) once and pus= h them > somewhere (to be defined) as static document on our documentation website. > Please doceng@ provide me a location where to push them. >=20 > And then remove bsd.doc.mk from FreeBSD 12.0 along with the removal of gr= off. > I also want to remove most of roff related tools (the one provided by too= lchains > available in ports) for which we kept a BSD version (not really maintaine= d in > base): > namely: > - checknr > - vgrind > - colcrt >=20 > Only keeping: > - col (useful in other places than roff) > - soelim (also used for manpages and we have a clean BSD licensed version= which > is also now parts of mandoc) That sounds like a good plan to me. Thank you for putting in all the time trying out the alternate roff toolchains! -Ben From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun May 21 22:34:55 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE05BD770D5 for ; Sun, 21 May 2017 22:34:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@karels.net) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB7E1D2D for ; Sun, 21 May 2017 22:34:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@karels.net) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 9D0CDD770D2; Sun, 21 May 2017 22:34:55 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C780D770CF; Sun, 21 May 2017 22:34:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@karels.net) Received: from mail.karels.net (mail.karels.net [63.231.190.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3C691D2C; Sun, 21 May 2017 22:34:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@karels.net) Received: from [10.0.2.11] (mjk-mac2.karels.net [10.0.2.11]) by mail.karels.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id v4LMKPR8051444; Sun, 21 May 2017 17:20:25 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from mike@karels.net) From: "Mike Karels" To: "Benjamin Kaduk" Cc: "Baptiste Daroussin" , arch@FreeBSD.org, doc@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, doceng@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The future of the roff toolchain Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 17:20:10 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20170521203640.GR39245@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> <20170521203640.GR39245@kduck.kaduk.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5347) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 22:34:55 -0000 On 21 May 2017, at 15:36, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 02:57:33PM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >> >> What I want to propose now, it to render them as PDF (html?) once and >> push them >> somewhere (to be defined) as static document on our documentation >> website. >> Please doceng@ provide me a location where to push them. >> >> And then remove bsd.doc.mk from FreeBSD 12.0 along with the removal >> of groff. >> I also want to remove most of roff related tools (the one provided by >> toolchains >> available in ports) for which we kept a BSD version (not really >> maintained in >> base): >> namely: >> - checknr >> - vgrind >> - colcrt >> >> Only keeping: >> - col (useful in other places than roff) >> - soelim (also used for manpages and we have a clean BSD licensed >> version which >> is also now parts of mandoc) > > That sounds like a good plan to me. Thank you for putting in all > the time trying out the alternate roff toolchains! +1. I agree that /usr/share/doc is strictly legacy; only the man pages matter for base. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun May 21 22:50:51 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00316D7773B for ; Sun, 21 May 2017 22:50:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vangyzen@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E36901377 for ; Sun, 21 May 2017 22:50:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vangyzen@FreeBSD.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id DCA16D77738; Sun, 21 May 2017 22:50:50 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBFA8D77736; Sun, 21 May 2017 22:50:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vangyzen@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.vangyzen.net (hotblack.vangyzen.net [IPv6:2607:fc50:1000:7400:216:3eff:fe72:314f]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A955B1375; Sun, 21 May 2017 22:50:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vangyzen@FreeBSD.org) Received: from ford.home.vangyzen.net (unknown [76.164.15.242]) by smtp.vangyzen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A5A925646B; Sun, 21 May 2017 17:50:49 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: The futur of the roff toolchain To: Baptiste Daroussin , arch@freebsd.org Cc: doceng@freebsd.org, doc@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org References: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> From: Eric van Gyzen Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 17:50:46 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 22:50:51 -0000 I like all of this. Thanks for your very thorough research and effort. Eric On 05/21/2017 07:57, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > Hi all, > > I have been working for a while to try to import a modern roff toolchain into > base. > > I didn't like the initial approach that consisted in simply removing all roff > toolchain in base. > > Recap of the situation in base: > * We have GNU roff version 1.19.2 in base (latest GPLv2 version). Lots of bug > fixes has been made upstream in newer version (GPLv3) in particular regarding > unicode but not only. (and we cannot update it anymore) > * GNU roff is now only used to generate the documentation in share/doc and as a > fallback for manpages which mandoc does not support. > > On the manpages front: > * No manpages in base are not supported by mandoc except groff manpages > themselves > * man(1) can fallback on ports version of groff if installed (for ports not > providing manpages not compatible with mandoc) > > Alternatives to GNU roff: > * Heirloom doctools (which I tried to import) licensed both CDDL/BSD (in C) > * neartoff http://litcave.rudi.ir/ BSD licensed (in C) > > I went the road of using heirloom doctools it is 90% compatible with GNU roff, > good enough for all our base roff based documents. > > After getting down that road for a while, including lots of patches sent > upstream (thanks them for being so reactive and integrating them quickly as well > as fixing the issues I wasn't able to fix myself quickly). > > The problem is there are lot of corner small corner cases where heirloom is > different from GNU roff and hard to make it compatible. While this is corner > cases, it breaks document generation for some large documents people are > writing. Those users could use (and actually would benefit a lot from it) GNU > roff from the ports tree, but have to be careful about the path of the tool they > call to ensure only calling the one from GNU roff and not the one (with the same > name) from heirloom doctools. > > Concerning neatroff it is barely compatible with GNU roff, so not an option > (last I tested at least). > > I would like to change this approach and get back to the initial approach taken > by others before I jumped in and I would like just entirely remove the roff > toolchain from base and let people rely on GNU roff from ports. > > man(1) is already asking the user to install groff from ports if the manpage > cannot be read with mandoc. > > No the problem left is documentations available in share/doc. > > I would like to push them elsewhere. Those documents are mostly useful for > historical reason (hence we want to keep them) but not really for daily use of > modern FreeBSD. > Another issue with those documentation, they are installed as text/ascii version > in base, which makes most of them not really readable (as the documents has not > be written for a ascii/text target but more for a PDF/html view - using pic(1) > for example) > > A plan was to push as sources in the svn doc repository and continue to build > them. This approach also have an issue: over the time roff evolved a bit and > while working on heirloom doctools import I had to fix a bunch of markup to make > the rendering of those documents clean (also meaning almost noone should read > them considering some were not really readable). > > What I want to propose now, it to render them as PDF (html?) once and push them > somewhere (to be defined) as static document on our documentation website. > Please doceng@ provide me a location where to push them. > > And then remove bsd.doc.mk from FreeBSD 12.0 along with the removal of groff. > I also want to remove most of roff related tools (the one provided by toolchains > available in ports) for which we kept a BSD version (not really maintained in > base): > namely: > - checknr > - vgrind > - colcrt > > Only keeping: > - col (useful in other places than roff) > - soelim (also used for manpages and we have a clean BSD licensed version which > is also now parts of mandoc) > > Best regards, > Bapt From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun May 21 23:58:39 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67477D78B02; Sun, 21 May 2017 23:58:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x22b.google.com (mail-wm0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 12976163B; Sun, 21 May 2017 23:58:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id d127so131848211wmf.0; Sun, 21 May 2017 16:58:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=lEsJYI0bwlYYIJumpbb40t/nwTACYkEQyU06wKBQGW0=; b=A5jPiXTT4MECS6K+oHCv2m9NfKiBehIwrE6qsI2I2oPymY2txmYDinCJii8JmkUSiJ a3Mqd8XgEXf/SkwkPVx6rU25M6cH2NYTZYbtFAo3f2GJ4HgAZQIVaDaSsVH01aNy5mj3 7oyAtilT7N9sxvT7NsDHu30SEsk2yaJrUgygpAe0GFQplX2nJ0iKS8p+fSryOd1dv+12 a5kpGtVrbz33rjAOinM/gJw4cIXVO92dP3rHYZVjB7RuquDlRJdrmQ3kAPqYmZa2Bl0V kZJSNGcT5PbmyrzmT/te2R5se3r64+wD2QmeeivJGL/DQTqiFpss662nGFujNxMqFici TYUQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:from:date:message-id:subject :to; bh=lEsJYI0bwlYYIJumpbb40t/nwTACYkEQyU06wKBQGW0=; b=IjeX2UcOuepiF6XTfA5QbX2tGeMyhTPX7vSGeIYznaPJgdoIaKFFtSVVop7iTaNLmu TbAmeuCHk1MzUyJ8xTtATjOxOlkgUI1fkFkCJq9d/Mr28rj6gErmcVHboUfgwl+yAFs+ w42/KSFrzuTHM1WqQeBGxdjGSgopapXVHeWD/hIEgtIeTgjW5YdrgNeEpu/VCbKz/483 5dacJ1FQ8wsx2Gr3K5xiHp4YQlLk4CEcP+4xLfgGV0hSjCAHb2CqkrgkBn9EI/wyPKLX XWOxDiFZlk72UqQYL6MwATXazIlEq5Bny5O7xmfZUqfMkWkOUQRrwp/HpIE+H1aH1iRa EVag== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcAeUhtaLWJayfOc9JuKohr68boEYW+gI0QqT5VXZDPqunN1GUEw IzL1kIFmLvI2cjZPz8gqPP1cWKuweiii X-Received: by 10.223.152.6 with SMTP id v6mr9257023wrb.60.1495411116665; Sun, 21 May 2017 16:58:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.193.134 with HTTP; Sun, 21 May 2017 16:58:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Adrian Chadd Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 16:58:35 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: gEQPVvyhO9sX2lpSU6Hz4MtqMcA Message-ID: Subject: [rfc] moving sys/mips/atheros to sys/mips/ar71xx, and moving sys/mips/atheros/ar531x to sys/mips/ar531x To: "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 23:58:39 -0000 hiya, The atheros MIPS stuff is a little badly organised. I'd like to reorganise it a little: * sys/mips/atheros - is the only shared bits (ie, the bus space code) * sys/mips/ar71xx - atheros 71xx and later * sys/mips/ar531x - the earlier generation mips4kc cores It'll require a bit of svn mv'ing things around and will likely upset anyone with branches, but I'd rather do this shuffling before 12.0-RELEASE is cut. Any objections? -adrian From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mon May 22 06:34:04 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66960D7895F for ; Mon, 22 May 2017 06:34:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ray@ddteam.net) Received: from mail-yw0-x233.google.com (mail-yw0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23BA81B0C for ; Mon, 22 May 2017 06:34:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ray@ddteam.net) Received: by mail-yw0-x233.google.com with SMTP id p73so44714501ywp.0 for ; Sun, 21 May 2017 23:34:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ddteam-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=k+rQWfER6P/6YY42yMms/ekf/+LmDRpRa+Slo49S8IU=; b=QGlxjOMFzvRU5kveumCUdM/Sde3YaQYi7xMZha1LtaplOegiS0ns/ze91lS1a0b9IJ fBVISgXlLgNfJjK9auH3Sy/tuSbuDHhYpxpLeoDpEaohJIk60n0GnFbPvVjXVgn5y6Yk 6Ib33C2ypmZXMDkqAHFZaYbZe92rYlq8A7ZM7J/GQDCfjrvn2BO7cUA4n2BKAjXnQLBM 8cXlbeZZje3zJ3EY4ds+PdU5mW6O5kv0/HYyOY+ALzf5lONoV2mR0EV/JOaInx3k/BsT qqCUXu6h9nkBTKacYgHTFBKGJMN1vG0kVdVR7jyUA0JagUDFYaf/8idHSjDdLXLR7Oih iaQg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=k+rQWfER6P/6YY42yMms/ekf/+LmDRpRa+Slo49S8IU=; b=iMkC4wuJ4E2tjK57yBo7zIm091y1dSZXW5KrI+Pm1NLEJVXOWk2M9UB+C4koCO4cUl HHuy4C1WI1ubbxEeQ+Sb7UUpJ07VbdIBsYvbGvrzIdANCFLtVWW9FoxAp2gOBUQ9M+uk ifarCSRluX0d71FrqspuHyBjbCDrgqWBSQ0QqVbe5ANGdksh0QJ53ZrAfEH4W3KC9AiQ YB31o0HWVtbsYDRpkHHfL98MTj4rYNgtrsppbkwzkkr+fSoEsekoXv5ASeSqz4CIjVEO 4yyKQfgcvR7x0HgRYafX+dbPScGfx6IjC0Fgu1HrcV/ifwI+x50Gw6/vTee98QZ4PIkH iLHQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcATLcPkVnDBJhM+YUzJts3Oaw1QFFTK8bjaQa3A/8+KbiniBruu o3a7C1AcvlaGpOeN2agx5AuaWarQNTj5 X-Received: by 10.13.233.3 with SMTP id s3mr18205825ywe.242.1495434843165; Sun, 21 May 2017 23:34:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.161.194 with HTTP; Sun, 21 May 2017 23:34:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Aleksandr Rybalko Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 09:34:02 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [rfc] moving sys/mips/atheros to sys/mips/ar71xx, and moving sys/mips/atheros/ar531x to sys/mips/ar531x To: Adrian Chadd Cc: "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 06:34:04 -0000 Hi Adrian, maybe better to move inside sys/mips/atheros? sys/mips/atheros/common sys/mips/atheros/ar71xx sys/mips/atheros/ar531x Thanks! 2017-05-22 2:58 GMT+03:00 Adrian Chadd : > hiya, > > The atheros MIPS stuff is a little badly organised. I'd like to > reorganise it a little: > > * sys/mips/atheros - is the only shared bits (ie, the bus space code) > * sys/mips/ar71xx - atheros 71xx and later > * sys/mips/ar531x - the earlier generation mips4kc cores > > It'll require a bit of svn mv'ing things around and will likely upset > anyone with branches, but I'd rather do this shuffling before > 12.0-RELEASE is cut. > > Any objections? > > > > -adrian > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- WBW ------- Rybalko Aleksandr From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mon May 22 06:35:25 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F38D78AF5 for ; Mon, 22 May 2017 06:35:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bounce-freebsd-arch+freebsd.org@streturns.eu) Received: from mx-out-gi2.emailamp.com (mx-out-gi2.emailamp.com [89.238.184.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F1651C45 for ; Mon, 22 May 2017 06:35:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bounce-freebsd-arch+freebsd.org@streturns.eu) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; s=email; d=emailamp.com; h=Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Subject:List-Unsubscribe:From:To:Date: Message-ID:From:To:Subject; t=1495434919; x=1495456519; bh=HzBhXLRDY5SwaalsUOXO1X40/hmIlWmMrZwKrcEPZxg=; b=sKu0PPQo3Z00RlhynEVRK7LJRwLKpL4/GHqg1iTF0JQ4e7IU5kI7Va25RuiOu2suHZlB3sNIIahz 7VyAcpqj31sp5O/jHsauG4BTzkuZRtMjPSfd+zhrBsW9uN0J/Z9+tdmlDOXHI2Cbh1BfYETo9u7B Wtt603vs+wbhpuL6WH5r7H0Bdm0T8GFzYRNJr9+NCtBuGnUfAzxF0/vkXdGoEcd7gukIpkvTGlgZ BEr8tNRAkbDJTiDTEPMucVjdZEB7nwV8wj39VccuBBM6tWTUkJ0IxsEMz+YBe2EtTlEUpJAMCB0s tiCdVhTUsKRpHM51kzJgMxOjVUfKIY1qvYZyYg== Received: by mx-out-gi1.emailamp.com id h4a3ae2akmcu for ; Mon, 22 May 2017 09:19:11 +0300 (envelope-from ) Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Invitatie la dezvoltare - programele de training din perioada urmatoare From: Dynamic Training Solutions To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 06:19:03 -0000 Message-ID: <592278d635692d2321db3151@training-info.ro> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 06:35:25 -0000 | ![](http://nl.training-info.ro/EHfPepCGpDY2GsLuxmQqCtjEawXZVQ7xGUjuFORnS4= N3p1hoqQdBmrCSal2bfrU2vGQ_o0YIwn1x-1Uk1GnL6QbC37fXX_jpWv7t-Z75kOKI3khS5NzEH= a3YsGH0DtzV7uo0iuI54MTjcJSXLybVX1EsMakYz5WhL1lDSWH3qogXDs-MnN9axC5pH1NQ6uNu= dDlwmYb4Dp36uajwKdtRwsrjXtmin07xnX0qT_ckThw0gFiDZsuqNhFYxIWZRzwqIncadYaVWaD= EF_7ZO65rYOvkNsLyfk-79ozaQhFVkDU9HD1A_kRdz9YvgXVPZFftiQvJHT7-pJfN3scxjcyuzN= ODOV3ADlnZtiQf5bjGFQcyczPlRSnouGTYgsS_Nezbk0PVjSn-0v87oC5Peqtl6hCjG0U__x9DH= MZ2ii3vmLG0BRCvi9OKPoIEFpnsX494WEzTAQq-w96Kpsn6YItCTwlOZ_xD6f2VFe_5CE3hocKF= 2jLCH4vruET3RBppe1z4I4QGZhxPoVCILOI8THNz) =20 --- =20 =20 **VREI S=C4=82 FII MAI BUN?** **VREI S=C4=82 =C3=8ENVE=C8=9AI MAI MULT =C3=8ENTR-UN TIMP MAI SCURT?** **Atunci, te invit=C4=83m la cursurile Dynamic Training Solutions!** =20 =20 | **Bine te-am gasit!** Pentru perioada **26 mai - 30 iunie** ti-am pregatit pentru dezvoltarea ta = sau a colegilor tai un numar de **33 programe de training**. 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Parcurgand acest curs, achizitorii, achizitorii, buyerii vor put= ea: * sa inteleaga conceptele de baza care se aplica in negocierea in achizit= ii * sa afle cat de utile sunt unele tehnici existente pentru a putea fi apl= icate cu succes in companii * sa identifice posibilitati de eficientizare a metodelor de negociere. Achizitorii eficienti trebuie sa aiba capacitatea de a obtine acorduri du= rabile in relatiile companiei cu factori majori ai mediului economic, si sa= aiba sprijin deplin de la cei fata de care depind in ceea ce priveste resu= rsele, autoritatea si producerea efectiva de rezultate. **Cursul isi propune sa ofere buyerilor instrumente practice** care au rolu= l de a clarifica nuantele sensibile in obtinerea de rezultate in procesul d= e negociere. Cursul este unul interactiv astfel se creeaza cadrul analitic = cat si abilitatile si cunostintele necesare imbuntatirii performantei de lu= cru. In cadrul cursului vor exista exercitii si discutii de grup cu rolul de a e= videntia si de a ajuta participantii sa isi consolideze cadrul teoretic rel= evant pentru mediul lor de lucru. ** Obiectivele cursului:** * Prezentarea celor mai moderne metode si experiente legate de metode sof= isticate de obtinere a unor acorduri profitabile si solide; * Dezvoltarea capacitatilor de elaborare a strategiilor de negociere in a= chizitii si de implementare creative a acestora. ** ** ### Ce veti invata in cadrul cursului: * Tipuri de comunicare =E2=80=93 elemente de comportament si utilizarea l= or eficienta; * Asertivitatea =E2=80=93 metoda optima de colaborare si eficienta; * Dilema esentiala a negociatorului: stabilirea scopului; * Alternativele intr-un accord. Limitele negocierii; * Definirea intereselor ca masura a negocierii; * Crearea valorilor: cum se obtin cu adevarat valori comune; * Punerea in practica a principiilor negocierii in achizitii; * Negocierea in evolutie =E2=80=93 etape si metodologii; * Puterea de influenta in negociere si aplicarea ei in achizitii; * Negocierea pentru atingerea unui scop, autoritati sau resurse =E2=80=93= nevoia de mandate; * Ratificarea, evaluarea post-negociere, evolutie; * ****Exercitii practice, simulare, teste. **Mai multe informatii si intreaga prezentare a cursului la** \- ** ** **NU TE OPRI NICIODAT=C4=82 DIN =C3=8ENV=C4=82=C8=9AAT!** ** ****Accept=C4=83 acum provocarea.** **Noi experien=C8=9Be pentru ca tu s= =C4=83 c=C3=A2=C8=99tigi!** **** ****. **** | | **Calendar cursuri open 26 mai - 30 iunie 2017** =20 ---|--- =20 26-27 | Bucuresti | Tehnici de Negociere pentru achizitori si buyeri =20 29-30 | Bucuresti | Managementul Stocurilor si Depozitelor - simulare =20 29-30 | Bucuresti | Customer Care =20 | | =20 01-02 | Bucuresti | Finante pentru Non Finantisti =20 01-04 | Mamaia | Leadership for HighPerformance =20 | | =20 07-08 | Bucuresti | Managementul Stocurilor si Depozitelor - simulare =20 09-10 | Bucuresti | Tehnici de Influenta si Persuasiune cu integritate =20 09-10 | Bucuresti | Vanzarea Consultativa =20 09-11 | Bran | Marketing Strategic =20 09-11 | Bran | Time Management - Managementul Timpului si Stabilirea Priori= tatilor =20 | | =20 15-18 | Balcic (Bg) | Management Operational =20 16-17 | Bucuresti | KAM - Key Account Management =20 16-17 | Bucuresti | Supply Chain Management- Managementul Lantului de Aprov= izionare-Distributie =20 16-17 | Bucuresti | Tehnici in convingerea clientilor =20 16-18 | Mamaia | Comunicare asertiva =20 | | =20 21-22 | Bucuresti | Tehnici SPIN pentru finalizarea cu succes a vanzarilor =20 21-22 | Bucuresti | Tehici de luare a deciziilor si rezolvare a problemelor= . Creativitate si inovare in luarea deciziilor. =20 23-24 | Bucuresti | Cum sa descoperi diamante. Curs avansat de recrutare =20 23-24 | Bucuresti | Logistica - Managementul Logisticii =20 23-24 | Bucuresti | Management Strategic. Strategie si Planificare Manageri= ala =20 23-24 | Bucuresti | NLP si Instrumente de calibrare si influentare in comun= icarea cu clientii =20 23-25 | Mamaia | Abilitati de coaching pt manageri, sefi de compartimente i= n dezvoltarea angajatilor =20 23-25 | Poiana Bv | Roluri si abilitati manageriale - Dezvoltarea abilitat= ilor Manageriale - Eu ca Manager =20 | | =20 28-29 | Bucuresti | Abordarea telefonica a clientilor =20 28-29 | Bucuresti | Lean Management. Sisteme eficiente de decizie manageria= la =20 28-29 | Bucuresti | Managementul Motivatiei =20 28-29 | Bucuresti | Microsoft Excel - nivel Basic si Intermediar =20 28-29 | Bucuresti | Social media - "Cand imaginea conteaza" - curs aplicat = de folosire eficienta a instrumentelor online =20 30-01 | Bucuresti | Folosirea eficienta a Fiselor de Post - Implicarea prac= tica in strategia de Resurse Umane =20 30-01 | Bucuresti | Managementul securit=C4=83=C5=A3ii informa=C5=A3iilor c= lasificate =C5=9Fi neclasificate =20 30-01 | Bucuresti | NLP (Programare Neuro Lingvistica) in dezvoltarea manag= eriala =20 30-02 | Bran | Managementul Conflictului =20 30-02 | Bran | Management de Proiect . Managementul proiectelor =20 =20 =20 Click AICI ** **=C8=99i cite=C8=99te = mai mult. **Te va ajuta! ** **** =20 =20 =20 --- =20 =20 [![](http://nl.training-info.ro/LPjcYFl12lwW5hR0qFcEqgpe1xJYvpy1n7ZyAWnHf47= TGhpaz9FrcdqKj_5TSLx8_NsiDU9Y7P4p8ayLBvB8yU1m7Cz62OkhyK_b0SQE4tfKBt6u_byouu= 48UwA_kQ1MwnLmDxTeMoTA16mYYnNorE-L9PWuBwIku4uxwnddKK2iOAW8LqSWmtiWKv2eho_NQ= Rnl0ZibZmbIkYBqydd8UmMbiVHae0fYeZtAi97Yez9NAUoccvOdaCc806xfXwPq0TOqzJfZGOg6= 8ZmS9bVH3-ge0gheXUPKhp0lEeevS082fIT2tuUE7yDa40sKAbvTShAUwv5CNHi9pYCY0thJ0Jp= xh7xOb5nDizDVGiH8Iyzir_DYDgqa4wXdTVqpybbnOhdllr0wv2dW5zydc12S7HCWyLuhtrh5oF= HFU82ycDxyh4fTCnFEsMfIw6xlNnM9OuqlC5I9)]()= [![](http://nl.training-info.ro/Uc1QidNyr4TdWXCbj625Va0tFfFsWdq6jOCOzkqMr2= u_miYR0jDVlBrOKpQc0H07svbg8txkADNk_WZl7ZdFFRUMib9yCaiOtXjgA5N-jSUViyUiEyWAq= med4TqTsJO0ThJxrMSmgsX9Coe-CWypGiRqQL5bX1Mn-Oy-Oom-hjfWNU_21u05BoIN3x-KZwqJ= fAlc0WgNQojdawI8Bl55FbPU5t_XHmTMkwvWagJt-DuLlpr3QrzkZ3SPyXa4dYfQnr5hnuvYU4w= R6T10BfsUvqrlBjCm6UeSfSmSOn0ADXCeXLzFplWxmLjxcpD49xN7pm9vpyCTX8hc0bU7BdBIif= L6AbOfjKnVtJ58R2XULKGnEIvmA_2AFDNCnEQNAe3hsu0beFx7lRWtpah2iaZk3rtlJGzrAlvHS= Tk9Hmg6qSXeyMXyg249uddyvRla7cjCv3eEjtyT)]() ![](http://nl.training= -info.ro/V1LADwjOnry0KKg7IitOuJPRjo4uFAw0oYTM6mLCcNlKZcJNcgNQhWUGESTg7Imzys= c3srupjFPKOE6kUStcZ6DzM_ie1OLcBFuxz4R6TeLXVnpVQHDUzNgQQjDxeJrKzAENpOtj4LZ5J= mvkrtCNkVUcdTVEoHbkBg0FImn66TxHgtBEraczxW7A-jywuFTuN6ZEM3NPwgT0E_OWecIdIvDT= 4tuVKH0f96noiSMXTB_NuUw9Ty2HVctMYOCyi8XadTEV1PKB0_MlCTcZorOUZ2xLhCQpt7KrohX= KlF18qZH6Dt0w-8LgDBTy6PVNpUrPiyzVCdpjsOLyOv2EUzmPWfoS-5-ET2h143faFVIbepeP-1= iGXK1DwapsZJd2iI8yaQr1z5sTujNIAr6bfV-NmH3ddmZkKaWlwRXsMCc_ipIyNNisNBPfwlbWo= Wu9QuN4-FKcymjbm7k) =20 =20 ******Programele de mai sus, pot fi accesate si prin Unitatea Protejata ce = suntem autorizati din 2007** * * * =20 =20 **"Educatia este cea mai puternica arma pe care voi o puteti folosi pentru = a schimba lumea." - Nelson Mandela** =20 | ![](http://nl.training-info.ro/jViA19LFf1uHX6flQtaGVpR708bcYFjLhkbKtN7_7= MuFIyF9rcOXNO9OGBqRQfo-9xhEG0U87DI3GkFjeFx5ZKlwkLhpYbEXaAW5Ll0DmU8avkJ7Sk0n= UCXzankcL1w3XEhoH_R-jZVSLF4gyvzWU__1IUUVBjiEZQiPw8L18diS_dtlzeKN472xWJ55wEr= 4jdIW-i7ZyWmKcBKSzLIskX9QyGqnl6elauSW3Pd4aAnBAzsp9aFhHzWzhbxlCtKPj4-C1HXsN_= GYE74JnUOZ7KyTgmgAzsvNfuHbxsumpiMo00qUXCHlgo5WQKetAIldl3VD7BGcwD2Je9o2cBLII= HisnJucUhgH6Pg0T4kW-xuCGChhL_irsF9FtZWZHmCUqVyWeOTVkT-qDTjmpjmMM-hV4c4NW9YF= on5rUpBEOY1JegzgyXitkpkuEG-XdAs2X7pwuheKHex1byK2EEXZou_DAvffUIgy5ZUHFOX-IZm= 2rnxdvg_WL4OAjoLxu6snmoFyXHtgQ6qPE35ft50) | office @ http://nl.training-inf= o.ro/XLS5HqltlNtSvo92rVkRDlXqTExEFAaTEAPeW2yCseQ-eXGinC7b-ITmRaCG83JYALoJSE= kQV2XXvjquXkCxSNUJOLmnaFyTD79TrQ2jCEA1CQEDZzdnAhbVhrs2cRXUJ99sNCIehyXj6KT8P= S9i1226r0zbmxyqIJps0cv7IcNbxO_bSXgo3Z9WA94u1IkjHrKbq5UUOgefbvBkgrOk_P73FCkI= nD69mXNO-UJn0-Gq1jveS-J1DR3-9hB61NqXb2fgegVwQIBlgeH2rucfgmhTuL1fiCgw_oD5kkE= QA4YtmowIJfMxFkqPXrbGudHxgO5D61cdmN-x5LHoBZZ2EbGgN_keHGVZBCObaHuF9CPHsZ9Es5= 3P8M7GSST0rYk7D11IYNTfB5IlIvAqejD60pswd3K9zkV6I5t_ERQT1ktyeyM =20 fax +40368 81 33 15 =20 Mobil +40 734 909 230 =20 ---|--- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mon May 22 14:17:16 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 398DCD78841 for ; Mon, 22 May 2017 14:17:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 144FF1F04 for ; Mon, 22 May 2017 14:17:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 137F4D7883E; Mon, 22 May 2017 14:17:16 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10524D7883D; Mon, 22 May 2017 14:17:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vps1.elischer.org", Issuer "CA Cert Signing Authority" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D8AD1F02; Mon, 22 May 2017 14:17:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from Julian-MBP3.local (106-68-207-219.dyn.iinet.net.au [106.68.207.219]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v4MEH8GF088780 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 22 May 2017 07:17:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Subject: Re: The futur of the roff toolchain To: Baptiste Daroussin , arch@freebsd.org Cc: doceng@freebsd.org, doc@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org References: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> From: Julian Elischer Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 22:17:02 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 14:17:16 -0000 On 21/5/17 8:57 pm, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > Hi all, [...] > No the problem left is documentations available in share/doc. > > I would like to push them elsewhere. Those documents are mostly useful for > historical reason (hence we want to keep them) but not really for daily use of > modern FreeBSD. > Another issue with those documentation, they are installed as text/ascii version > in base, which makes most of them not really readable (as the documents has not > be written for a ascii/text target but more for a PDF/html view - using pic(1) > for example) I was surprised that they stayed in src when we split it up. And really they should be supplemented by every FreeBSD based paper presented at a conference :-) From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mon May 22 19:21:05 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5155D79D8B; Mon, 22 May 2017 19:21:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com (mail-wm0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CBAB1053; Mon, 22 May 2017 19:21:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id b84so4411890wmh.0; Mon, 22 May 2017 12:21:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=GEWucOJRv6tLYVudOwe9r/QUo7aA+7ZQNmtBQmqHSMg=; b=vY6MEKqusOjyBWDZT1CxTEnxR58hz7/75WyKaQ4uhSjRpG+IjZXwm6Om4AnY095zth Ql2s4Q3BsdW/HZhVrhfz3VyrkDIVqUediGXdA11sLGbRxurKqv/Nulvc556PzVTWkz/U k+sDl/gevHB3QATON61KG4jI78ZSqE9JuV4xoWvk3gNP+rJzTK4T6yxe9zsL+DW+ysQw GoUNKbneeh0BTjASQDDVrTERudg40mYFtURPqaWv059D9/UEC7Mp2t+h2PDlEmwFpwst zQvtsSBXbdPI4WoZ27qWgm7e6Ow9bWK1bTcBCMzIa9oc9e562+KsNCY8MefTfJpaGvRD evFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GEWucOJRv6tLYVudOwe9r/QUo7aA+7ZQNmtBQmqHSMg=; b=K5Fd1Uu0eEreHZaHSmPwC9tbS4BLfqFVyhyC0u6KQsnWztUhiGsVyYhuBc4X4U+lm3 R9DxUDYGf/KE/B/6l65hZjOZC6q9vJN2rAmJYkMbkUxJWSCOd4GBeiXcw5m2SQgQ8noG mK235UWRWMmeG8Q5BJUjr+LwELwEz4PvsQPFusMNWNqgYN2WQmdFbw+8WIkZ7f7/xdgT Up0/oGI+R13d+daBfI28ErOxUIqCWa2Cm1s1B1pFZsOap3oIobfqv2pjbW9F2drNDB7a zsDb7vcSX7dj0vHNfwLHaq6um78GvC6NRUb2LgXQhZ9HrEZDBHSNbVBcDm3YQKOJ4Gi5 /6Lw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBvvdoF/iUOIgZUWR5T9wp43EYRSJBBdl5DwkXXMuQAJWOjp8HF r+0vAHs3C/5liciGXB8VLXCVfxJJ6LkA X-Received: by 10.28.31.135 with SMTP id f129mr26223421wmf.78.1495480863932; Mon, 22 May 2017 12:21:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.193.134 with HTTP; Mon, 22 May 2017 12:21:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Adrian Chadd Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 12:21:03 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6QedxC9A-RVJBdj3vgYyqAGAQ98 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [rfc] moving sys/mips/atheros to sys/mips/ar71xx, and moving sys/mips/atheros/ar531x to sys/mips/ar531x To: Aleksandr Rybalko Cc: "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 19:21:05 -0000 On 21 May 2017 at 23:34, Aleksandr Rybalko wrote: > Hi Adrian, > > maybe better to move inside sys/mips/atheros? > sys/mips/atheros/common > sys/mips/atheros/ar71xx > sys/mips/atheros/ar531x I don't mind doing that, it's just a lot of nested directories. :-) What do people think of the above? I can do that and then use it as an excuse to write / tidy up some of the hardware support for other features that only show up on ar934x and later chips (like an SRAM driver..) -adrian From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mon May 22 20:39:56 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1445D7705D for ; Mon, 22 May 2017 20:39:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it0-x229.google.com (mail-it0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FA251D5A for ; Mon, 22 May 2017 20:39:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it0-x229.google.com with SMTP id g126so4882361ith.0 for ; Mon, 22 May 2017 13:39:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=h+v6YxdI/zx/6WuzDAvNL1NcPgysZiODAEBsfHTjMds=; b=gX0T2UjzOLp2Zfl+EvZb1EOa3FUqp0WwgO4XRXwautI08fN2NbdPtAZkM3iJb8gU/G LLE9v1aOLDtC8jOEaRs3ffJ6e9W1jX/BW+I8bpLiq9Cd1a2DFpfzrXVf4KTtdlCi60KF 6X30Zb+nqkqYzj+2RJjF+EMwcqikX+ciNEBdCOGkxGFj5qJA1BT3RqT4LoC8qLbk4Dqy Wj8ZjHhs7zyxQg9oWV4r76VcreandhyMHfzY7ysYq88yCyrBO+0nK9vQPISeL34OvWwe fL5E9VQBsbYi8vPX6Lp+g+7jrOY2FsNRzGGntbXAYeJHsfzE+G7kU6klm9pKp3+Qhc8W sfUg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=h+v6YxdI/zx/6WuzDAvNL1NcPgysZiODAEBsfHTjMds=; b=dzeYhQeuK4Wc7J9PMS48mLdE9p6LRIUnFDlgkD79VbvYdGkfOeFi7LPtKNwJwzRz9j nDR4+BDDxUHMP0vF99yc4QuKQfpjRNokYKiR2c+MZrn4YAVqZ6s1a2kUvl2R8aY8Y3Lu enwWEl2/t2X0sfN6l5EVpfc33nBWpZKTpun1U08hjl+tvB10pyBVXm3BSLXv/9/p8rVQ ZMHAj7kDJclqLJjKy4u6rxpcT1BzY/6xK/vJ79L7a/wCe0+dion2BLS7p7b8dQNOEk8b VFZ4LUheEWOmaIMuFaJitmPu+jAxoMv0I0E0wTz7WQxWbPs7eFaiRGHaNRDmWkaKqXYy pK5g== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcAXHzrLz4SJVVhsu8e+CvQakvfUO8QFGlIpONuJy2H+7fMTpqcg bQKgdBYXTN7F/a+cuhDvvAsukMEcbknL X-Received: by 10.107.188.132 with SMTP id m126mr26945223iof.148.1495485595781; Mon, 22 May 2017 13:39:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.79.126.6 with HTTP; Mon, 22 May 2017 13:39:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:64b3:7ae1:cf64:fe87] In-Reply-To: References: From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 14:39:55 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: uoEW9VKTrhPQNy4uGU1IgbeQcas Message-ID: Subject: Re: [rfc] moving sys/mips/atheros to sys/mips/ar71xx, and moving sys/mips/atheros/ar531x to sys/mips/ar531x To: Adrian Chadd Cc: Aleksandr Rybalko , "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 20:39:56 -0000 On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > On 21 May 2017 at 23:34, Aleksandr Rybalko wrote: > > Hi Adrian, > > > > maybe better to move inside sys/mips/atheros? > > sys/mips/atheros/common > > sys/mips/atheros/ar71xx > > sys/mips/atheros/ar531x > > I don't mind doing that, it's just a lot of nested directories. :-) > > What do people think of the above? I can do that and then use it as an > excuse to write / tidy up some of the hardware support for other > features that only show up on ar934x and later chips (like an SRAM > driver..) > It's what we're doing with all the other vendors that have multiple directories on both arm and mips. I think it's the right thing to do. It's been the agreed to convention for at least a decade. While there may be some minor variance across all the platforms we support, it's the expected convention... Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mon May 22 21:42:32 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ADC2D786CF; Mon, 22 May 2017 21:42:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x234.google.com (mail-wm0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9325E10D4; Mon, 22 May 2017 21:42:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x234.google.com with SMTP id e127so7705795wmg.1; Mon, 22 May 2017 14:42:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=3V8ppaJaur2Ctbj1N8y0ZOe8saKVSNUpBpxWj/YLdKY=; b=SsySlmkLc2UpRJPPKERYbsK8aJoZU1ShsvUF4eU8OgCgsz4635q+Oyhc0Jiu+qq/2L b6AsyM104bYWAVS2Wd/kshCGhDK5YFMsC7v36asfLZ7IEwWx5laANeQTJhflW82eP7Ic 18SZKmKSF2ZHmcsq75cvJ6r/M+2opPkal95CIH1JJCjUYC3tX/5bk50aZs6KCs7y5ue0 Ip6Lhjqo93TPR2IDVjSGumbemL6VCQvRUsConRJ8hiCosfvQn91BPhacUGCtvQPfNs8w XTgv1kdhy29LhUCkbAonTczlU2CDclHvxFoBLewV+Y9HtZgnU8BWyVB9T5hFCaC+01qS ze5g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3V8ppaJaur2Ctbj1N8y0ZOe8saKVSNUpBpxWj/YLdKY=; b=RnwuDxFxZOSgAG3tIPbk2r4yA+FZ3zya570NvNeHXlo+4En58zoqq31F0eNSayonnz 0cglp5ybDD7AaBGaJishmLohx9vG2VOFUMZJgapkMOpc9D5i2TMJ0AljH1AA8cBILCgJ rF+bj0pL062VFd5cyjiW1Rbkj/4LmzaKYTQ4Z2BDQOdRzX53/Saacl64BVee+8btGA/i VEq9/XOGOxoeuFHxvB42DRuF1SELYohUoDflw1IgTJjllaEqedKwL+3LT44tlaotURW+ yqPzSMx5kxxtvu+K6ew8LvQ8DXAP7a5+XpylRljdoobC/UpNzGk+7rhLuK+r3HBZrjhA ah3g== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBH+3dG0QtrnX4xmnOSCd4IUR1p+HzOHH84TRn2UMDR2AFknWT2 +wBMHQYVKNRKxRoSo2ddeObhOOH4SC7W X-Received: by 10.28.134.3 with SMTP id i3mr28317190wmd.68.1495489349975; Mon, 22 May 2017 14:42:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.193.134 with HTTP; Mon, 22 May 2017 14:42:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Adrian Chadd Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 14:42:29 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8Zg8A1hYB1Jvg4ifKKcogfqqVO8 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [rfc] moving sys/mips/atheros to sys/mips/ar71xx, and moving sys/mips/atheros/ar531x to sys/mips/ar531x To: Warner Losh Cc: Aleksandr Rybalko , "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 21:42:32 -0000 On 22 May 2017 at 13:39, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> >> On 21 May 2017 at 23:34, Aleksandr Rybalko wrote: >> > Hi Adrian, >> > >> > maybe better to move inside sys/mips/atheros? >> > sys/mips/atheros/common >> > sys/mips/atheros/ar71xx >> > sys/mips/atheros/ar531x >> >> I don't mind doing that, it's just a lot of nested directories. :-) >> >> What do people think of the above? I can do that and then use it as an >> excuse to write / tidy up some of the hardware support for other >> features that only show up on ar934x and later chips (like an SRAM >> driver..) > > > It's what we're doing with all the other vendors that have multiple > directories on both arm and mips. I think it's the right thing to do. It's > been the agreed to convention for at least a decade. While there may be some > minor variance across all the platforms we support, it's the expected > convention... Sweet. I'll do this then. -adrian From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed May 24 23:49:46 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AC2BD7B059 for ; Wed, 24 May 2017 23:49:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jale@start.bg) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46DF91329 for ; Wed, 24 May 2017 23:49:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jale@start.bg) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 43769D7B058; Wed, 24 May 2017 23:49:46 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41624D7B057 for ; Wed, 24 May 2017 23:49:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jale@start.bg) Received: from smtp-proxy003.phy.lolipop.jp (smtp-proxy003.phy.lolipop.jp [157.7.104.44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B50D1328 for ; Wed, 24 May 2017 23:49:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jale@start.bg) Received: from smtp-proxy003.phy.lolipop.lan (HELO smtp-proxy003.phy.lolipop.jp) (172.19.44.44) (smtp-auth username yoneya_li@datamining.jp, mechanism login) by smtp-proxy003.phy.lolipop.jp (qpsmtpd/0.82) with ESMTPA; Thu, 25 May 2017 08:49:37 +0900 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (127.0.0.1) by smtp-proxy003.phy.lolipop.jp (LOLIPOP-Fsecure); Thu, 25 May 2017 08:49:23 +0900 (JST) X-Virus-Status: clean(LOLIPOP-Fsecure) Message-ID: From: "Super Diet" To: , , , , Subject: Get your body on track Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 02:49:39 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 23:49:46 -0000 Can you picture yourself slim.- https://goo.gl/C7pBd0=A0 From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu May 25 11:45:26 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED8BED81E09 for ; 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Thu, 25 May 2017 11:45:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 11:45:19 +0000 From: Glen Barber To: Baptiste Daroussin Cc: arch@freebsd.org, doceng@freebsd.org, doc@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The futur of the roff toolchain Message-ID: <20170525114519.GB17188@FreeBSD.org> References: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 11.0-STABLE amd64 X-SCUD-Definition: Sudden Completely Unexpected Dataloss X-SULE-Definition: Sudden Unexpected Learning Event X-PEKBAC-Definition: Problem Exists, Keyboard Between Admin/Computer X-Spidey-Sense: Uh oh, Peter logged in User-Agent: Mutt/1.8.2 (2017-04-18) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 11:45:27 -0000 --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 02:57:33PM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > No the problem left is documentations available in share/doc. >=20 > I would like to push them elsewhere. Those documents are mostly useful for > historical reason (hence we want to keep them) but not really for daily u= se of > modern FreeBSD. > Another issue with those documentation, they are installed as text/ascii = version > in base, which makes most of them not really readable (as the documents h= as not > be written for a ascii/text target but more for a PDF/html view - using p= ic(1) > for example) >=20 > A plan was to push as sources in the svn doc repository and continue to b= uild > them. This approach also have an issue: over the time roff evolved a bit = and > while working on heirloom doctools import I had to fix a bunch of markup = to make > the rendering of those documents clean (also meaning almost noone should = read > them considering some were not really readable). >=20 > What I want to propose now, it to render them as PDF (html?) once and pus= h them > somewhere (to be defined) as static document on our documentation website. > Please doceng@ provide me a location where to push them. >=20 Unless anyone on doceng@ objects within the next three days, I will create a new directory for the PDFs under doc/head/en_US.ISO8859-1/. Glen Hat: doceng@ --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEjRJAPC5sqwhs9k2jAxRYpUeP4pMFAlkmw8oACgkQAxRYpUeP 4pPGnw/+M+TI/COFXDONgIFGRlJMYt9Hs0CtD/aUQYnRavids7Ydj0ZJswCSFGsi wHI3y8HtSd9f7+gTEMC1gyeTIPTIRvIB/9iDhujhJ0RTYrlBop2FPI5hdWjXUXjK 6Xx12t4RaQ4sMvr3HChwZh5Co83N8hxuERJC3d7AjyJRoH8/tu00Yps29GAYDF8y KV4rXIuh9xmEZ49twO71ZXxdWbwWtbTNER5kmqs/7ipt/6t+ZGZK41kF1SQrcTc8 P+Pb59mqR5hEGod6k9XzBYmSLeHhxc4RJE1J9reN8W+30Vhf9ey5MPQvzzlg9TXg IN4zmMO8zs+3LI3U0N0VHkwB5pHPnkmubvK3fHcyPdofBMI82g3kHZZx0N+yWx43 HG8W6vTDHVUVu4SfqtiKnTk+mZxovQYkWkD5yEnd+FqQxTRpNDNtEjMrV2l2nMN5 PtgwBCU3+Ohdr0i8N6A9YYs+zxk0kMQrwuSLs9FK1soFC32oMn/z81WLdkQKYlLv z6F4N8rgMISv+pQJfCsH3M6ThFnPO+VjdEPAlbu3lSNtUnc+1KS5BaSfUZNN0lBw NsIRHyRKzlSsKiMSTSLn8q4t9JCOG0+dOwfYPo/6YpQGqCJkFkxPteSqGajozKEK dLkc6CermAxA+ovjJ+KflWFJEhCt1aXyc3zTb8UZyrtCk9qbiJw= =aTuO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu May 25 12:07:01 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D32DFD78E84 for ; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:07:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C09FC1FB2 for ; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:07:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id B9F98D78E81; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:07:01 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9483D78E7F; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:07:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99B2C1FAF; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:07:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1235) id C0CCC449D; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:07:00 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 14:07:00 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Glen Barber Cc: arch@freebsd.org, doceng@freebsd.org, doc@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The futur of the roff toolchain Message-ID: <20170525120629.kv2bi4yjtzcegx4e@ivaldir.net> References: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> <20170525114519.GB17188@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ibymrjwgghg2m2zb" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170525114519.GB17188@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170428 (1.8.2) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 12:07:01 -0000 --ibymrjwgghg2m2zb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 11:45:19AM +0000, Glen Barber wrote: > On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 02:57:33PM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > No the problem left is documentations available in share/doc. > >=20 > > I would like to push them elsewhere. Those documents are mostly useful = for > > historical reason (hence we want to keep them) but not really for daily= use of > > modern FreeBSD. > > Another issue with those documentation, they are installed as text/asci= i version > > in base, which makes most of them not really readable (as the documents= has not > > be written for a ascii/text target but more for a PDF/html view - using= pic(1) > > for example) > >=20 > > A plan was to push as sources in the svn doc repository and continue to= build > > them. This approach also have an issue: over the time roff evolved a bi= t and > > while working on heirloom doctools import I had to fix a bunch of marku= p to make > > the rendering of those documents clean (also meaning almost noone shoul= d read > > them considering some were not really readable). > >=20 > > What I want to propose now, it to render them as PDF (html?) once and p= ush them > > somewhere (to be defined) as static document on our documentation websi= te. > > Please doceng@ provide me a location where to push them. > >=20 >=20 > Unless anyone on doceng@ objects within the next three days, I will > create a new directory for the PDFs under doc/head/en_US.ISO8859-1/. >=20 Thank you, For the record I have pushed the generated PDF: https://people.freebsd.org/~bapt/pdfdocs/ The have been built with a modern groff and I forced the embedded fonts for= all fonts used. Best regards, Bapt --ibymrjwgghg2m2zb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEgOTj3suS2urGXVU3Y4mL3PG3PloFAlkmyOQACgkQY4mL3PG3 PlqUURAAs8gSIXEud08R9TeaN0MQRSPBkKuApTnY9ZkvHoN6Sm2LyJ1MkFuUyXpK bfdeYIHZT5InIWEdfNS9fTu0YzwyiGfwk+mIkz7D2wRjaIrbfci+OWY7Xy8G/ng3 WfCQqAXyujdoR2KcXam7+8VpQ9o0a9I7WKWnDyVEbPtjJjX5PlHGV1Olt9+0LbTd 9bEEOTN1AKuZDDswX5pDDRZdnK4DkwBhm44/HswRue8p15Vv1xAIPsTmvgToQ4Xe PerBcy7czqkMwNj2cjRxCPModkdSWuvVQL09iwtu8T/3+6nGfkeyYwZ4WTW/wOCq N4e6TPytBfoSp8jhlxq0hcgSSlcW6ily5k8DlIQFI0IBJZGDpJobAcVtpPDl+P8V dmUnmdmRaa0Qxu+InpRP1hZFxxdBBoHPvalq/sSfy+mr9UnhEl25qrhVr5W8JqNF gTN9RKgz2rW8bxTQr35rouUZs2iwQ3d/LGI6U6VXqEPMiyJ+VJCjFogrE5wPFI/k lb68Y1qdwaOUsg+iaYDKxNFvsA3TP2PupUs5WEvAmEh/umPJXixLXvtk+gAXKiHF nNngW9olRvWrkA9SAYQRa2udAD30qciUTmjalNxnL8NEnXv3t8J7Dm9Q0wJ+ymNP B6QsFChLGuq4sXYQVebSeqGznQz3ow0mUqBgIZ6fCgfbLs8r5RY= =Nxns -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ibymrjwgghg2m2zb-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu May 25 12:12:57 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C48D804AB for ; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:12:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tj@enoti.me) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AAEF1927 for ; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:12:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tj@enoti.me) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 9A0ADD804A7; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:12:57 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99793D804A6; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:12:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tj@enoti.me) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7196E1926; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:12:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tj@enoti.me) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672DF20926; Thu, 25 May 2017 08:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 25 May 2017 08:12:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=cWugNugJThzWFxoR7e 7ARY9ki91ODXR4j7BzIxSLjjw=; b=eVVq8jKptCPb/RdG+BsgC0Hj4g6prYdNrS PN1nyvtXuZqQHQ1EoZ+uv0541kySfRyy9hlwPiBDAjizBFVeUwZYvPOvwCWTM0CA Vxr1tIJ9vsWGkE2oDPz7vpf1aj8awLfCdDsIaaTUT+mYc6W+4zrWhvSrT9xo+1mx jan2nNkjixvU212ZYNYf7bSYvaRCfHb3hVhY3gZo7vZtjt42W7bWUgUHcIUob3vv t/MOBLZFjHXQRAv/Jbz7fWq//J3E58ZIUMERoLju5opZFSROlKlV3t+Vxv+ACiBz X+/q3iW52BF/wpRzUIKCLmG/GCL+SLnRunibDU9xWpb74VWKGVQg== X-ME-Sender: X-Sasl-enc: UaMzTCUitmFv80ii0EGRD46b52MYv8LA7zPDof9iLCm4 1495714375 Received: from tom-desk.erg.abdn.ac.uk (tom-desk.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.204.4]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8136C7E545; Thu, 25 May 2017 08:12:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 13:12:51 +0100 From: tj To: Baptiste Daroussin Cc: Glen Barber , arch@freebsd.org, doc@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, doceng@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The futur of the roff toolchain Message-ID: <20170525121251.GB55153@tom-desk.erg.abdn.ac.uk> References: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> <20170525114519.GB17188@FreeBSD.org> <20170525120629.kv2bi4yjtzcegx4e@ivaldir.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170525120629.kv2bi4yjtzcegx4e@ivaldir.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.2 (2016-11-26) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 12:12:57 -0000 On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 02:07:00PM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 11:45:19AM +0000, Glen Barber wrote: > > On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 02:57:33PM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > > No the problem left is documentations available in share/doc. > > > > > > I would like to push them elsewhere. Those documents are mostly useful for > > > historical reason (hence we want to keep them) but not really for daily use of > > > modern FreeBSD. > > > Another issue with those documentation, they are installed as text/ascii version > > > in base, which makes most of them not really readable (as the documents has not > > > be written for a ascii/text target but more for a PDF/html view - using pic(1) > > > for example) > > > > > > A plan was to push as sources in the svn doc repository and continue to build > > > them. This approach also have an issue: over the time roff evolved a bit and > > > while working on heirloom doctools import I had to fix a bunch of markup to make > > > the rendering of those documents clean (also meaning almost noone should read > > > them considering some were not really readable). > > > > > > What I want to propose now, it to render them as PDF (html?) once and push them > > > somewhere (to be defined) as static document on our documentation website. > > > Please doceng@ provide me a location where to push them. > > > > > > > Unless anyone on doceng@ objects within the next three days, I will > > create a new directory for the PDFs under doc/head/en_US.ISO8859-1/. > > > > Thank you, > > For the record I have pushed the generated PDF: > https://people.freebsd.org/~bapt/pdfdocs/ > > The have been built with a modern groff and I forced the embedded fonts for all > fonts used. > Multicolumn doesn't render correct in firefox for this: https://people.freebsd.org/~bapt/pdfdocs/papers/timecounter.pdf but is fine for this: https://people.freebsd.org/~bapt/pdfdocs/papers/devfs.pdf - [tj] From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu May 25 12:22:03 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B78DD809C4 for ; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:22:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 175031EDD for ; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:22:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 16974D809BF; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:22:03 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1610FD809BE; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:22:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CDD1F1ED8; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:22:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1235) id 0C9864A0A; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:22:02 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 14:22:01 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: tj Cc: Glen Barber , arch@freebsd.org, doc@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, doceng@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The futur of the roff toolchain Message-ID: <20170525122201.7v5zfspu35a3qx47@ivaldir.net> References: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> <20170525114519.GB17188@FreeBSD.org> <20170525120629.kv2bi4yjtzcegx4e@ivaldir.net> <20170525121251.GB55153@tom-desk.erg.abdn.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3fpbd6igd3luxhs4" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170525121251.GB55153@tom-desk.erg.abdn.ac.uk> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170428 (1.8.2) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 12:22:03 -0000 --3fpbd6igd3luxhs4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 01:12:51PM +0100, tj wrote: > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 02:07:00PM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 11:45:19AM +0000, Glen Barber wrote: > > > On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 02:57:33PM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > > > No the problem left is documentations available in share/doc. > > > >=20 > > > > I would like to push them elsewhere. Those documents are mostly use= ful for > > > > historical reason (hence we want to keep them) but not really for d= aily use of > > > > modern FreeBSD. > > > > Another issue with those documentation, they are installed as text/= ascii version > > > > in base, which makes most of them not really readable (as the docum= ents has not > > > > be written for a ascii/text target but more for a PDF/html view - u= sing pic(1) > > > > for example) > > > >=20 > > > > A plan was to push as sources in the svn doc repository and continu= e to build > > > > them. This approach also have an issue: over the time roff evolved = a bit and > > > > while working on heirloom doctools import I had to fix a bunch of m= arkup to make > > > > the rendering of those documents clean (also meaning almost noone s= hould read > > > > them considering some were not really readable). > > > >=20 > > > > What I want to propose now, it to render them as PDF (html?) once a= nd push them > > > > somewhere (to be defined) as static document on our documentation w= ebsite. > > > > Please doceng@ provide me a location where to push them. > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Unless anyone on doceng@ objects within the next three days, I will > > > create a new directory for the PDFs under doc/head/en_US.ISO8859-1/. > > >=20 > >=20 > > Thank you, > >=20 > > For the record I have pushed the generated PDF: > > https://people.freebsd.org/~bapt/pdfdocs/ > >=20 > > The have been built with a modern groff and I forced the embedded fonts= for all > > fonts used. > >=20 >=20 > Multicolumn doesn't render correct in firefox for this: >=20 > https://people.freebsd.org/~bapt/pdfdocs/papers/timecounter.pdf >=20 > but is fine for this: >=20 > https://people.freebsd.org/~bapt/pdfdocs/papers/devfs.pdf >=20 Good catch thanks! I will see what I can do Bapt --3fpbd6igd3luxhs4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEgOTj3suS2urGXVU3Y4mL3PG3PloFAlkmzGYACgkQY4mL3PG3 Plrl1A/9HWlW6GLv1EXf9ER47FzYBvz5okI6F99oCV53L6mpPc5lWKMb2Pwu8m+W cZumcsXtNpjS31GvG5BVifKoLZzBdYjHb5L6FyO1niFUWgPYrrOvtl0ZJixNEvpk 3M9PFTTURwIXJXlhEg5BkXcFEKowfrDibg8aQ0848/Wq0pOHuxvlg8bAVWU7BcLb N46av5gh3nW4gdt23wFtiSdM+/GnMZAbF3+RHDdtrmS8vhQsW2GRHJqx0sHApYSy TEt/n7F1kvyXGZbTOS7xuVMmYTH52+/XoQe3X/sxVzLT94Mf/1CMBh3lTvYoMaqI KGU5oLoIPYD0X/HSg31aCH6RwF8njiF6qdfBGmckZJymg33Vg1pJyDYkDF/u2GZ+ buUnjR5u3sNHIrWmyQI/syuZJlp1JhrgAvQU0AmxB1K2LE1z4WHeT3eCWeV3kM5C AJChnsmttYKDq0vVqR51RKLW4aWcGVH/MGF3YN5Odp/x4ruhI5o4hw/DNmf2/MqH LbTNnICfd84vnlKqNKG6gBezIJPUtvtwFE7KA92gS/dtcExYdmmB3UGT3MHAC/mr bDqgEp2VBrNh9I9ja/DOPgEJObyIMuv21xZ3xsJmOpXmci2ltTiS88Ddo0/7wxle ALPdQLjpi/kM4bmfn20Iio6Uyssquz48LRTV7BB1z409OkmTelg= =nB81 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3fpbd6igd3luxhs4-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu May 25 12:59:49 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57189D81754 for ; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:59:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42BE913D0 for ; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:59:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 3E918D8174F; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:59:49 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E078D8174D; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:59:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3C1D13CF; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:59:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1235) id 2ACC25230; Thu, 25 May 2017 12:59:48 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 14:59:47 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: tj Cc: Glen Barber , arch@freebsd.org, doc@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, doceng@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The futur of the roff toolchain Message-ID: <20170525125947.5myf5cavuyxvwvkr@ivaldir.net> References: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> <20170525114519.GB17188@FreeBSD.org> <20170525120629.kv2bi4yjtzcegx4e@ivaldir.net> <20170525121251.GB55153@tom-desk.erg.abdn.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="efqrsk2ytmo7fvgn" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170525121251.GB55153@tom-desk.erg.abdn.ac.uk> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170428 (1.8.2) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 12:59:49 -0000 --efqrsk2ytmo7fvgn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 01:12:51PM +0100, tj wrote: > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 02:07:00PM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 11:45:19AM +0000, Glen Barber wrote: > > > On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 02:57:33PM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > > > No the problem left is documentations available in share/doc. > > > >=20 > > > > I would like to push them elsewhere. Those documents are mostly use= ful for > > > > historical reason (hence we want to keep them) but not really for d= aily use of > > > > modern FreeBSD. > > > > Another issue with those documentation, they are installed as text/= ascii version > > > > in base, which makes most of them not really readable (as the docum= ents has not > > > > be written for a ascii/text target but more for a PDF/html view - u= sing pic(1) > > > > for example) > > > >=20 > > > > A plan was to push as sources in the svn doc repository and continu= e to build > > > > them. This approach also have an issue: over the time roff evolved = a bit and > > > > while working on heirloom doctools import I had to fix a bunch of m= arkup to make > > > > the rendering of those documents clean (also meaning almost noone s= hould read > > > > them considering some were not really readable). > > > >=20 > > > > What I want to propose now, it to render them as PDF (html?) once a= nd push them > > > > somewhere (to be defined) as static document on our documentation w= ebsite. > > > > Please doceng@ provide me a location where to push them. > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Unless anyone on doceng@ objects within the next three days, I will > > > create a new directory for the PDFs under doc/head/en_US.ISO8859-1/. > > >=20 > >=20 > > Thank you, > >=20 > > For the record I have pushed the generated PDF: > > https://people.freebsd.org/~bapt/pdfdocs/ > >=20 > > The have been built with a modern groff and I forced the embedded fonts= for all > > fonts used. > >=20 >=20 > Multicolumn doesn't render correct in firefox for this: >=20 > https://people.freebsd.org/~bapt/pdfdocs/papers/timecounter.pdf >=20 > but is fine for this: >=20 > https://people.freebsd.org/~bapt/pdfdocs/papers/devfs.pdf >=20 > - [tj] Fixed, and reuploaded. because there should be some caching on people.f.o y= ou cannot yet see the fixed version but I have fixed it. It is supposed to be a monocolumn as far as I understand it. Bapt --efqrsk2ytmo7fvgn Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEgOTj3suS2urGXVU3Y4mL3PG3PloFAlkm1ToACgkQY4mL3PG3 PloR3Q//Sus+q3+ZmmlLh+P16EmEAWbidUc0Ba5lsMTY7HBfMTtZhNn4HUbGsbdy Fu7nHar91tNzEmR1HofmA3U0NtI7WvdzzZTKWkBFIUg1WIEEox4+QygRazV+gZLp AKHw7/QlPNwrHLA7net+aI282qf8qglelCMTooDZpg3f7uV6p/zVImIDITC9ioxX wequmVtHQAmpREO8KoYN24xeuKfzBJvX69b1yNa6PDkrTuCJHlq5FjIhQ1mthfWj ZVAiAPl0AhoqrjYFoXt+6VylOsGMLP9MJdYNM4x+F//0gewJ10OAjSGwxXVyZtl+ 1zpLGkeR4qEVrAfSGP60umfztGz2n/wPw3bDAsRvAnxaj+ccfiJ9a/z9t92Tavek kQIdlsi2kmmQ50QVJdpBZolmNA7wCxbsiOagfos2wf9+3XxCsETobGUcwcLbhfSo SdKpr/3phIx4lfHHAaaEChStj/jRHWYd0tfcdGWWTl6EZ+iz4coyGMiqGFLiGZI5 CTkjt7wNrdE1pj5Ooc9Y7Is4yenL7i0Qtj8R0PB0YoDqMKzEnxJDZns4aH3pxJOA c3tcLsKlRG/cVMIII52FtFcbKExN+NmngPXdERJwgCGjc56JblZsXa2GPlM+Bsrc aC7plRtXkTAPb+8UVADjHc+YcafX4Egtt6kEoDdqN6ibjSB67GY= =ClDq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --efqrsk2ytmo7fvgn-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu May 25 14:24:51 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 160C4D81B41 for ; Thu, 25 May 2017 14:24:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tj@enoti.me) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE970115E for ; Thu, 25 May 2017 14:24:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tj@enoti.me) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id EB1F9D81B3A; Thu, 25 May 2017 14:24:50 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA8EBD81B38; Thu, 25 May 2017 14:24:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tj@enoti.me) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C21E1115C; Thu, 25 May 2017 14:24:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tj@enoti.me) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6366320760; Thu, 25 May 2017 10:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 25 May 2017 10:24:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=fQBrQ7UU0gwFH52vf0 FqAuXlVC2eUTODXa+2Yv4LigM=; b=GD+MmqIaiWtoMxBpVDpN6JnuUqjFWbZxyA hKH7xaib8BNQ1T6TuMIjXTFUrro9WN4m+TaiRpJZPXxoC8VfcaqtahMPt9n6N6FR iRaIgk+D30YbGnO1md9JTDPimiRftXCUZB7ZyGBDXJodj23NJrW+biHvFP+bZUM1 IZk7lxbTJ2OvI7fQS3HpGyHQ7hEtNGSESVr/N3+zUqvCK2h+I9zT/9nfS10elpAm ydvVWBJ5M5KOBr/Ik1RZ4/YV6jrWa9ShRX+ydzi21o2B2sFHsZcjBWTJv8RlFNdy 0f6vOyhiSBakSlKm+ClIsQVFxl2ICwm1wYCrWBFy30PwpWJhDA9w== X-ME-Sender: X-Sasl-enc: s1hPxXPkM0lsx61OaMVWkPuDiIpfRUOAjUeA/kysX7f/ 1495722288 Received: from tom-desk.erg.abdn.ac.uk (tom-desk.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.204.4]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5E52E7E545; Thu, 25 May 2017 10:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 15:24:45 +0100 From: tj To: Baptiste Daroussin Cc: Glen Barber , doc@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, doceng@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The futur of the roff toolchain Message-ID: <20170525142445.GC55153@tom-desk.erg.abdn.ac.uk> References: <20170521125733.bmd4tmq6iqpsbvgl@ivaldir.net> <20170525114519.GB17188@FreeBSD.org> <20170525120629.kv2bi4yjtzcegx4e@ivaldir.net> <20170525121251.GB55153@tom-desk.erg.abdn.ac.uk> <20170525125947.5myf5cavuyxvwvkr@ivaldir.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170525125947.5myf5cavuyxvwvkr@ivaldir.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.2 (2016-11-26) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 14:24:51 -0000 > > Fixed, and reuploaded. because there should be some caching on people.f.o you > cannot yet see the fixed version but I have fixed it. It is supposed to be a > monocolumn as far as I understand it. Yup, that renders fine for me now too. - [tj]