From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 16:29:56 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52D66DEF4E1; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:29:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from benno@FreeBSD.org) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C815801CA; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:29:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from benno@FreeBSD.org) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E55C20A9C; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:29:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:29:49 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=hshJJs+oYp9H0v9KGFPPQmTULlrfL GcTxfco7Y2O3F0=; b=NFc2N9Iv1RXGQxbIdag5hoIPKy4YUjpEvjnUBkBOXsMcg qlzCbcZKpzJsVS3E7f4dljuV1WHXuGCFYVWuI7Q5CLEfsRpwvLEG07SuOjlFasLN w/NzLy3S9ukN2PwB+tBe6IHEBKMERKsHMOR2/tXPjt3WL9jhQPUV6m7JzdHNM3XF I+u4N4nQjyITJ5Dnby/x15JNVSq8rgQgtAA71VgzlY4LEBrMLQID4EJsefD2Y2Hn WomzRhHXShhaqu+2xWq7T2UMQ1tp6I4n7FSVsgTgK19MJJgS7l3zo6jyrYSIYhpu siDPk85GmtGyKafm7tdptFhUBux5Pw5ifv/oQMX6g== X-ME-Sender: Received: from usxxscottdm1.corp.emc.com (c-71-231-121-16.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [71.231.121.16]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id CBEF17FACA; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:29:48 -0500 (EST) From: Benno Rice Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Subject: The future of fortune(6) Message-Id: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 08:29:46 -0800 To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:29:56 -0000 Hello, all! With the removal of the fortune datfiles I think it=E2=80=99s time to = have a discussion about fortune(6). fortune now defaults to using a fortune file that no longer exists: $ fortune No fortunes found in = /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune. fortune is still used in the default .login/.profile to show entries = from the still existing freebsd-tips: $ grep fortune /usr/share/skel/* /usr/share/skel/dot.login:if ( -x /usr/bin/fortune ) /usr/bin/fortune = freebsd-tips /usr/share/skel/dot.profile:if [ -x /usr/bin/fortune ] ; then = /usr/bin/fortune freebsd-tips ; fi $ fortune freebsd-tips If you need a reminder to leave your terminal, type "leave +hhmm" where "hhmm" represents in how many hours and minutes you need to leave. -- Dru fortune also still has flags for showing offensive entries and the like. I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following two = paths we should take: 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage from = the default .login/.profile files. 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and make = freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as = /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes. Personally I lean towards the first option. Thanks, Benno.= From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 16:36:05 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E46D9DEF876 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:36:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it0-x235.google.com (mail-it0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1B43806B3 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:36:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it0-x235.google.com with SMTP id x13so6932792iti.4 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 08:36:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=jJUiJSCg9sh46zXnpeeLssaGjTH8gVHaxEipw/qxyoA=; b=b/ToG7IQ1xKc6kNXIACO2RBkzHBmqdSS7imybxadUouBGFUjbPzA4EhXZo7dcqXMxE 5rMt24APg7n6q1leoaYpf8k3y9XqBYCgCsUunDP8Yey5sbhODrdB02BN9DDAKj5kehvf EU5D2IawtKixK5z6jDhMSLrgQPB+XoCZ6psjPhmBRhFExfBUvePXra+sz1yrCxRsCvQ8 Iev5a24wAZO+m7F2tKouy5gKTT4KTSjwuXTtIRQTIOHpqMS3alLIpb9YuQeGFeHO4EFG 1ir3XLpBjnQrRkNR3jZJiDWhZxVI44kRMrOqcO5pybuS3kHkSBZn+ocIN0LnCnAh07wW tuZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jJUiJSCg9sh46zXnpeeLssaGjTH8gVHaxEipw/qxyoA=; b=evtbzHWp5P+zqkWr22TRkgn/SM8+Sxoqk2jRjshvgVFEsHmoA90qwzi2HS0/3nfnZI y07vaAY7YjrRjHeOyEoYKVgqy4Z1HIzjjBdscw9ERLnLKTHAm1Zv8wMcPokgzVedOGIV 6pMGL2b1KrQsvjywbEYVfYv9RsCJeTr5Ft3gHBAWAK0yowMU4VNjDQdgJTrV9D80m87l bjzqOpoSPjmzMaiTH4vKHnAW+rvU2FJHUTHo+M4kRR6fUSfC28OuqAs2UFXEnxvEa08x G0zID3cZF6yOLObqbb+gywrk97ll7U6EptXDPy31kibRi/YaWU2hpPXkcmVkHgM0g7/o WXAg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6v9MFMWWnFJDgzUqKm+XpIq3Q2lPftTkBb71fCBNHqj37K1B0C FnLSN0+bD9CgMbVG5WYc2kfnX2SLOJnppRp1flWWdw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMY2Vrx30JauNFgoQYVs829zDCCr9dFmVIFKrM0qXYeqqd62ZOedosZDfMbAzmRQ3be4HKeowMu9CjPXLbLnhFY= X-Received: by 10.36.133.135 with SMTP id r129mr8105749itd.69.1511368564730; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 08:36:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.79.108.204 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 08:36:04 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:6561:a5e8:a74:eef3] In-Reply-To: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:36:04 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: PrsRsVc_RV4qjtXqnQDiAC-50Y8 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: Benno Rice Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:36:06 -0000 On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Benno Rice wrote: > Hello, all! > > With the removal of the fortune datfiles I think it=E2=80=99s time to hav= e a > discussion about fortune(6). > > fortune now defaults to using a fortune file that no longer exists: > > $ fortune > No fortunes found in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/ > local/share/games/fortune. > > fortune is still used in the default .login/.profile to show entries from > the still existing freebsd-tips: > > $ grep fortune /usr/share/skel/* > /usr/share/skel/dot.login:if ( -x /usr/bin/fortune ) /usr/bin/fortune > freebsd-tips > /usr/share/skel/dot.profile:if [ -x /usr/bin/fortune ] ; then > /usr/bin/fortune freebsd-tips ; fi > $ fortune freebsd-tips > If you need a reminder to leave your terminal, type "leave +hhmm" where > "hhmm" represents in how many hours and minutes you need to leave. > -- Dru > > fortune also still has flags for showing offensive entries and the like. > > I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following two paths= we > should take: > > 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage from th= e > default .login/.profile files. > > 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and make > freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as > /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes. > > Personally I lean towards the first option. > (3) Do #1 except replace fortune with a single line shell script: #!/bin/sh to not break everybody's login scripts. Possibly with an optional echo "please remove fortune from .profile/.cshrc" I personally lean towards #2 though. I think the freebsd-tips are useful. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 16:51:27 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BA35DEFEB3; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:51:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jarmstrong@wi.rr.com) Received: from dnvrco-cmomta01.email.rr.com (dnvrco-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.73.225]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7311612C4; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:51:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jarmstrong@wi.rr.com) Received: from PC91484 ([156.76.147.55]) by cmsmtp with ESMTPA id HYCYesPr6goKNHYCaetXCk; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:48:45 +0000 From: "Joshua Armstrong" To: , References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: The future of fortune(6) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 10:48:42 -0600 Message-ID: <003c01d363b1$c31ee760$495cb620$@wi.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQIiOTMoHYmzayQiy9HS1UDJyYWdbwGuI7qSonV/gnA= x-ms-exchange-organization-originalclientipaddress: 10.1.40.70 x-ms-exchange-organization-originalserveripaddress: fe80::e045:5fd4:4ac4:be2f%18 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfLcWzE1wGJiaYTcf89+JKRIueEIkaV3fFZSFW4ACa7+YrA0Ckim/W7W+Cx4xcHiiNEm45fBLSoMRK/51GNRJRBeeduMF13YL3phCL2iJktlTBphBSVg0 /OKo81uAFCOV+uw3YW8oajw+J++tAyWBTUfqJBKfzhVUMT8cXaaFehm0nSBUiDWGn3fRGjYU2HfhMQ9FDqn/cuQQ/KfsxhCRyHU= X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:51:27 -0000 I also think the tips on login are helpful. I would be in favor of = making freebsd-tips the default cookie file (with the possibility of = supplying other files as well) and removing the offensive option. -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org = [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Warner Losh Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 10:36 AM To: Benno Rice Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Benno Rice wrote: > Hello, all! > > With the removal of the fortune datfiles I think it=E2=80=99s time to = have a=20 > discussion about fortune(6). > > fortune now defaults to using a fortune file that no longer exists: > > $ fortune > No fortunes found in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/=20 > local/share/games/fortune. > > fortune is still used in the default .login/.profile to show entries=20 > from the still existing freebsd-tips: > > $ grep fortune /usr/share/skel/* > /usr/share/skel/dot.login:if ( -x /usr/bin/fortune ) /usr/bin/fortune=20 > freebsd-tips /usr/share/skel/dot.profile:if [ -x /usr/bin/fortune ] ;=20 > then /usr/bin/fortune freebsd-tips ; fi $ fortune freebsd-tips If you=20 > need a reminder to leave your terminal, type "leave +hhmm" where=20 > "hhmm" represents in how many hours and minutes you need to leave. > -- Dru > > fortune also still has flags for showing offensive entries and the = like. > > I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following two = paths we=20 > should take: > > 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage from = > the default .login/.profile files. > > 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and make=20 > freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as=20 > /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes. > > Personally I lean towards the first option. > (3) Do #1 except replace fortune with a single line shell script: #!/bin/sh to not break everybody's login scripts. Possibly with an optional echo = "please remove fortune from .profile/.cshrc" I personally lean towards #2 though. I think the freebsd-tips are = useful. Warner _______________________________________________ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list = https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 17:19:12 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6573DF0629; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:19:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jarmstrong@wi.rr.com) Received: from dnvrco-cmomta01.email.rr.com (dnvrco-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.73.225]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BE182077; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:19:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jarmstrong@wi.rr.com) Received: from PC91484 ([156.76.147.55]) by cmsmtp with ESMTPA id HYg1ety3ygoKNHYg3etsAo; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:19:11 +0000 From: "Joshua Armstrong" To: , References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <003c01d363b1$c31ee760$495cb620$@wi.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <003c01d363b1$c31ee760$495cb620$@wi.rr.com> Subject: RE: The future of fortune(6) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:19:08 -0600 Message-ID: <004d01d363b6$031b12e0$095138a0$@wi.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQIiOTMoHYmzayQiy9HS1UDJyYWdbwGuI7qSAk9kafKiYwz9AA== x-ms-exchange-organization-originalclientipaddress: 10.1.40.70 x-ms-exchange-organization-originalserveripaddress: fe80::e045:5fd4:4ac4:be2f%18 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfLIq5iMLRd75Kh/H4WM3ErR1TwxvseXgLLNmgo7dOFDRpEgmoilZjbLiNquCTmuBup10ug2I4nXKGxy4KHRV41xRlHEVv3r2EiDPogdSQgaF7i4Zi0cF NMIe9rMFqWDsewVz9sxPYP0/DNRqFKjS2DXYycm2/aWJ9uL/KXsX2dR3i0ce/AtNEdv/aFP5NR5A3c8+d8Jk3dg0dpnPlME8ju8= X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:19:12 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org = [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Warner Losh Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 10:36 AM To: Benno Rice Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Benno Rice wrote: > Hello, all! > > With the removal of the fortune datfiles I think it=E2=80=99s time to = have a=20 > discussion about fortune(6). > > fortune now defaults to using a fortune file that no longer exists: > > $ fortune > No fortunes found in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/=20 > local/share/games/fortune. > > fortune is still used in the default .login/.profile to show entries=20 > from the still existing freebsd-tips: > > $ grep fortune /usr/share/skel/* > /usr/share/skel/dot.login:if ( -x /usr/bin/fortune ) /usr/bin/fortune=20 > freebsd-tips /usr/share/skel/dot.profile:if [ -x /usr/bin/fortune ] ;=20 > then /usr/bin/fortune freebsd-tips ; fi $ fortune freebsd-tips If you=20 > need a reminder to leave your terminal, type "leave +hhmm" where=20 > "hhmm" represents in how many hours and minutes you need to leave. > -- Dru > > fortune also still has flags for showing offensive entries and the = like. > > I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following two = paths we=20 > should take: > > 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage from = > the default .login/.profile files. > > 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and make=20 > freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as=20 > /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes. > > Personally I lean towards the first option. > >(3) Do #1 except replace fortune with a single line shell script: > >#!/bin/sh > >to not break everybody's login scripts. Possibly with an optional echo = "please remove fortune from .profile/.cshrc" > >I personally lean towards #2 though. I think the freebsd-tips are = useful. > >Warner I also think the tips on login are helpful. I would be in favor of = making freebsd-tips the default cookie file (with the possibility of = supplying other files as well) and removing the offensive option. Sorry for top-posting before. I had no idea that MS Outlook was so = terrible. :( -Joshua From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 17:35:44 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86172DF0B5E; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:35:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FE572B8D; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:35:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id vAMHZbHW054584 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:35:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id vAMHZbkC054583; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:35:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:35:37 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Benno Rice Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Message-ID: <20171122173537.GA54395@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.2 (2016-11-26) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:35:44 -0000 On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 08:29:46AM -0800, Benno Rice wrote: > > With the removal of the fortune datfiles I think it’s time to > have a discussion about fortune(6). There should have been a discussion before the removal, but your method prevented an inevitable bikeshed. > fortune now defaults to using a fortune file that no longer exists: When functionality is removed from src, a port is usually created. The datfiles should be available from ports/games/bsd-fortune. > $ fortune > No fortunes found in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune. > > fortune is still used in the default .login/.profile to show entries > from the still existing freebsd-tips: > > $ grep fortune /usr/share/skel/* > /usr/share/skel/dot.login:if ( -x /usr/bin/fortune ) /usr/bin/fortune freebsd-tips > /usr/share/skel/dot.profile:if [ -x /usr/bin/fortune ] ; then /usr/bin/fortune freebsd-tips ; fi > $ fortune freebsd-tips > If you need a reminder to leave your terminal, type "leave +hhmm" where > "hhmm" represents in how many hours and minutes you need to leave. > -- Dru > > fortune also still has flags for showing offensive entries and the like. > What is offensive to one person may not offend another person. What if someone objects to quotes by Dru (sorry Dru looks like you got picked at random above). The above looks like an attack on people with memory loss issues (age discrimination?). Will you remove Dru's quotes? > I would like people’s opinion on which of the following two paths we > should take: > > 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage from > the default .login/.profile files. Create ports/games/bsd-fortune. > 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and > make freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as > /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes. 3) Restore the datfiles. Add a WITHOUT_FORTUNE knob and set it as the default. This allows an individual to tailor her system to meet her needs without having others force a politically correct revisionist history on them. This will be my one and only post in this bikeshed. Given the sudden removal of the datfiles without discussion. This appears to be a perfunctory discussion prior to you pursuing your own choice. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 17:44:07 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75569DF0FE0; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:44:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40C8333D8; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:44:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([96.50.22.10]) by shaw.ca with SMTP id HZ40ep0Yxss4THZ41e6ADq; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 10:43:59 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=JuuBlIwC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:117 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:17 a=sC3jslCIGhcA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=xN093wJcAAAA:8 a=kFUlH0OSliqkK97SE7sA:9 a=1D2nN8w8AgeiPhfc:21 a=YQSnSVPCnt1GEjgK:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Hx19P-nHnUl7eOIfkkUA:9 a=qvPCYTaMt0conGjw:21 a=sLkkW3aE0IGMRdq0:21 a=K-7mZ4aJO_TMiZrF:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=gKyNpQLTuqoPBOiBd-sG:22 Received: from [10.168.3.117] (S0106d4ca6d8943b0.gv.shawcable.net [24.68.134.59]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 093811B3; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:43:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Cy Schubert Subject: RE: The future of fortune(6) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:43:04 -0800 To: Joshua Armstrong , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Message-Id: <20171122174355.093811B3@spqr.komquats.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfFJFUu3CoKjelzYzY7nOXH0j/MLcodO43g7m52eYzUw1uCk93FxJ9d24nzpWsfDK9inO11c6erBBv2tTp0q92wpKwGGNtBWjNAe1+jlXQS0e9FDEwGBk v74XG5JWXXmIsklqWReCO0JS+IeHZKjc3k5rRlxMVsvh3vnlwkmDFq1i9qsKdoaHDCSnS1RpKblvsvAqcDeW+SVP2NO0rhBFcT6FUQmDh6lLPEIWW+Mi/tVV 7tAoQCtpDnpCuYIW9DDc4A== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:44:07 -0000 I'm in favour of removing fortune entirely and replacing it with a shell sc= ript. IIRC there's at least one port that uses fortune. Making whatever cur= rently remains of fortune a new port to address any resulting fallout and P= OLA from its removal from base. --- Sent using a tiny phone keyboard. Apologies for any typos and autocorrect. Cy Schubert or --- -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Armstrong Sent: 22/11/2017 08:51 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: RE: The future of fortune(6) I also think the tips on login are helpful. I would be in favor of making f= reebsd-tips the default cookie file (with the possibility of supplying othe= r files as well) and removing the offensive option.=0A= =0A= -----Original Message-----=0A= From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@freeb= sd.org] On Behalf Of Warner Losh=0A= Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 10:36 AM=0A= To: Benno Rice=0A= Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org=0A= Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6)=0A= =0A= On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Benno Rice wrote:=0A= =0A= > Hello, all!=0A= >=0A= > With the removal of the fortune datfiles I think it=E2=80=99s time to hav= e a =0A= > discussion about fortune(6).=0A= >=0A= > fortune now defaults to using a fortune file that no longer exists:=0A= >=0A= > $ fortune=0A= > No fortunes found in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/ =0A= > local/share/games/fortune.=0A= >=0A= > fortune is still used in the default .login/.profile to show entries =0A= > from the still existing freebsd-tips:=0A= >=0A= > $ grep fortune /usr/share/skel/*=0A= > /usr/share/skel/dot.login:if ( -x /usr/bin/fortune ) /usr/bin/fortune =0A= > freebsd-tips /usr/share/skel/dot.profile:if [ -x /usr/bin/fortune ] ; =0A= > then /usr/bin/fortune freebsd-tips ; fi $ fortune freebsd-tips If you =0A= > need a reminder to leave your terminal, type "leave +hhmm" where =0A= > "hhmm" represents in how many hours and minutes you need to leave.=0A= > -- Dru =0A= >=0A= > fortune also still has flags for showing offensive entries and the like.= =0A= >=0A= > I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following two paths= we =0A= > should take:=0A= >=0A= > 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage from = =0A= > the default .login/.profile files.=0A= >=0A= > 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and make =0A= > freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as =0A= > /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes.=0A= >=0A= > Personally I lean towards the first option.=0A= >=0A= =0A= (3) Do #1 except replace fortune with a single line shell script:=0A= =0A= #!/bin/sh=0A= =0A= to not break everybody's login scripts. Possibly with an optional echo "ple= ase remove fortune from .profile/.cshrc"=0A= =0A= I personally lean towards #2 though. I think the freebsd-tips are useful.= =0A= =0A= Warner=0A= _______________________________________________=0A= freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/= listinfo/freebsd-hackers=0A= To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"= =0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list=0A= https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers=0A= To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"= =0A= From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 18:51:00 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1B39DF29C6; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 18:51:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (hz.grosbein.net [78.47.246.247]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 87E5964BBD; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 18:51:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (root@eg.sd.rdtc.ru [62.231.161.221] (may be forged)) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id vAMIot6B017125 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 22 Nov 2017 19:50:55 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: benno@FreeBSD.org Received: from [10.58.0.4] ([10.58.0.4]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id vAMIop6N099756 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:50:51 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: Benno Rice , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: <5A15C706.5020909@grosbein.net> Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:50:46 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, LOCAL_FROM, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Report: * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * 1.9 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on hz.grosbein.net X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 18:51:01 -0000 22.11.2017 23:29, Benno Rice wrote: > 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage from the default .login/.profile files. > > 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and make freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes. > > Personally I lean towards the first option. Please leave fortune(6) alone and stop ruining useful enviforment removing utilities being here long time for no reason. You forgot that fortune(6) is not limited to files installed with base system but is very useful with custom local set of fortunes, too. And leave strfile(8) etc. intact for the same reason, please. Eugene Grosbein From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 19:22:46 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31233DF3555; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 19:22:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from benno@FreeBSD.org) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 080B065F0A; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 19:22:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from benno@FreeBSD.org) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DB1B20CDF; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 14:22:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 22 Nov 2017 14:22:44 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=HuuC+v wvY2jloAApGavsrMdnPzWqW6ybjD04CNua000=; b=Qoeabe/e7+hh7pWQgePDSp 4/ShbUfZVsPK5gzY9o+F9b8qHqbrCB3xdpeKdwykIKhqmBA6aTS0GElhaGP35+MU /eM8GJxxlyasWQO2unDkstv7DT0MofEEZve5kCqoGv9KaMQoxKMMdAgri7xz8AGJ eDdLaherg4mA1s2U7rFz/SqOEv969ouHC6XXOXdaWuMb2pY2u8UFhnZ9VYChLrzs iLqU2uN9YQNtNtVRK/ITQCRBmF6QkUE7Zu5BYMkgw0g8xcG3I/s5PrDZoKnHPxE+ qjV45TsnCMQfrn7hY2wkJXaKG785TrIy+zE3IeMVGNGsF2JdmVyiPeo4FUJefkVQ == X-ME-Sender: Received: from usxxscottdm1.corp.emc.com (c-71-231-121-16.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [71.231.121.16]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9EEA124810; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 14:22:43 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) From: Benno Rice In-Reply-To: <20171122173537.GA54395@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:22:41 -0800 Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <64AB4D76-B239-4E49-8D30-CF6D5D5D88A4@FreeBSD.org> References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <20171122173537.GA54395@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 19:22:46 -0000 > On Nov 22, 2017, at 09:35, Steve Kargl = wrote: >=20 > On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 08:29:46AM -0800, Benno Rice wrote: >>=20 >> With the removal of the fortune datfiles I think it=E2=80=99s time to >> have a discussion about fortune(6). >=20 > There should have been a discussion before the removal, but > your method prevented an inevitable bikeshed. You=E2=80=99re correct in that my intent was to avoid pointless = discussion. We=E2=80=99ve got bigger and more fun things to work on than = coming up with an editorial policy as to what is or isn=E2=80=99t = appropriate in the fortune datfiles. >> fortune now defaults to using a fortune file that no longer exists: >=20 > When functionality is removed from src, a port is usually created. > The datfiles should be available from ports/games/bsd-fortune. Feel free to create it. If someone else wants to take editorial = responsibility for those files I=E2=80=99m all for it. FreeBSD should = not be taking responsibility for them and I don=E2=80=99t wish to take = that responsibility either. >> $ fortune >> No fortunes found in = /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune. >>=20 >> fortune is still used in the default .login/.profile to show entries >> from the still existing freebsd-tips: >>=20 >> $ grep fortune /usr/share/skel/* >> /usr/share/skel/dot.login:if ( -x /usr/bin/fortune ) /usr/bin/fortune = freebsd-tips >> /usr/share/skel/dot.profile:if [ -x /usr/bin/fortune ] ; then = /usr/bin/fortune freebsd-tips ; fi >> $ fortune freebsd-tips >> If you need a reminder to leave your terminal, type "leave +hhmm" = where >> "hhmm" represents in how many hours and minutes you need to leave. >> -- Dru >>=20 >> fortune also still has flags for showing offensive entries and the = like. >>=20 >=20 > What is offensive to one person may not offend another person. What > if someone objects to quotes by Dru (sorry Dru looks like you got=20 > picked at random above). The above looks like an attack on people > with memory loss issues (age discrimination?). Will you remove Dru's > quotes? Nice try. The freebsd-tips collection has some useful stuff which is why = I put forward the idea of keeping it. Comments like this are exactly why = I got rid of everything else. >> I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following two = paths we >> should take: >>=20 >> 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage = from >> the default .login/.profile files. >=20 > Create ports/games/bsd-fortune. Be my guest. >> 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and >> make freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as >> /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes. >=20 > 3) Restore the datfiles. Add a WITHOUT_FORTUNE knob and set it > as the default. This allows an individual to tailor her system > to meet her needs without having others force a politically=20 > correct revisionist history on them. Oh please. If you want the datfiles they=E2=80=99re there in history. If = you want to be the one distributing them, go ahead. I=E2=80=99m fairly = sure that the availability of quotes regarding, or by, Hitler or anyone = else has been diminished by a rounding error or less by us no longer = distributing the datfiles. FreeBSD is an operating system, not an = encyclopedia. > This will be my one and only post in this bikeshed. Given the=20 > sudden removal of the datfiles without discussion. This appears > to be a perfunctory discussion prior to you pursuing your own > choice. Think of me whatever you want, I=E2=80=99m not fussed. I=E2=80=99m = asking with 100% honest intentions what the community wants to do with = this tool. If the consensus is for retaining fortune for use with the = freebsd-tips datfile then I=E2=80=99m absolutely cool with that. I made a unilateral decision to remove a potential source of pointless = distraction. I could=E2=80=99ve unilaterally removed fortune entirely at = that point but I didn=E2=80=99t as the freebsd-tips aspect appears to = have actual utility and is something we can easily manage. The other = files weren=E2=80=99t. If they=E2=80=99re important to you, please feel = free to check out either r325781 (if you want the files) or r325095 (if = you want the files with the Hitler quotes) and maintain them yourself. Cheers, Benno.= From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 19:44:30 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CA8FDF3C4C for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 19:44:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@perceivon.net) Received: from mail-lf0-x236.google.com (mail-lf0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4A2566A93 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 19:44:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@perceivon.net) Received: by mail-lf0-x236.google.com with SMTP id k66so19561692lfg.3 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:44:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=perceivon-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=to:from:subject:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version; bh=n8AyOF95F7W6Fs+nfng3a0YOE2MG6XtjLTrHkKbAYko=; b=lBf1rZH+mrUMqHUAS89rfXKb3fN4o9xDjksuPK2nHj7F1F+ZL5IjfXEavCYeKw691J r5+UhGPZhKGKNoru3IUv/eiBYeePVBvvAgLXQm0bGAXYlW/pIAZjrlo753v7VY3nifQn e9u3WxygI3bXgs+qFUZuFCwfMGBZwRE6bxmjtRY0lSUg8SLICxsw+Z8MFKoJkQdoXjyx 1IHtMixiDnC3sZiKAlXnxZBqJMEGJNSMKNcfHa547OgSbbtj+ANkCERAq0ISMIr32dRM aByMZjpdKJBvPSXHi7zR6P58pUaJLL6Jm7oCEg4jEfIrm+gUE6eJh5i+a4FmPQqKomdk Aocw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version; bh=n8AyOF95F7W6Fs+nfng3a0YOE2MG6XtjLTrHkKbAYko=; b=k4QO9LIR28fKTlFX6mowACJvl3NUPmOh/xz2iP3EuLLAOHRhRwnURK1+UEdcePRlHF tZS9PcnuofHff9vdj5PiSENHDohR1wGhQxs/vToDJS07dORETkigCJjYIrRxX6ukR368 9uvnTeq51zlDqukc+P5cO6vSShIm09Q583sDyB0A0JN5/S6geq9AdSPzWFtIZfAKfMbD N4sMqBt5TpowUQsKI8P34AHP5143nyP65+rO1pYklRH9+wPYgkgxuRDAP02MuivTm09z uk5qNr0tyVWgN10O6JExRN6QMl+lsAqnVEioH7KTc7o+KhanGNh47Uj81rdPM311KJ/J nICw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7sOyEiS2TZIi7he/JQpS7OGhIxQUyQkVYN37u8aff6ofpOKiUw /Zz/tjnIrPMkTD4oLEuUCdQYMmWQllEDB+rMUBDwaDxdl2GJZNwwGd04rQs9tl79Ox8Ud3MMaqa adaMSvmwEuNsxOt4VdCLjs/zUT6zL5JLkWZqGJDOfnLV0P50hb+baNBtqNs2TqJQsGyEpFB4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaG2OCuO+z8EVQMPG6N35/P14KsWnWDCaPvXy2JOKoF0BNxiOn6ku8Zty0/DY8NDD09yOXJGw== X-Received: by 10.46.92.135 with SMTP id q129mr9155489ljb.88.1511379866439; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:44:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx16 (101.177.50.84.sta.estpak.ee. [84.50.177.101]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v7sm1132759ljv.27.2017.11.22.11.44.25 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:44:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost.lan [127.0.0.1]) by mx16 (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 8b8a4217 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 21:43:41 +0200 (EET) To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org From: Johannes Jost Meixner Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Organization: Perceivon Hosting Inc. Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 21:43:38 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="SQmh8KDqTLCdu1lwwhKTFew1A01VCw46l" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 19:44:30 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --SQmh8KDqTLCdu1lwwhKTFew1A01VCw46l Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PUSHPo4I65dbJbKuMF2BolpWvSKfj9Nq2"; protected-headers="v1" From: Johannes Jost Meixner To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) --PUSHPo4I65dbJbKuMF2BolpWvSKfj9Nq2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > With the removal of the fortune datfiles I think it=E2=80=99s time to h= ave a discussion about fortune(6). Maybe this is a good moment to realize the change was contentious, should have been discussed before, and must be reverted. -xmj --PUSHPo4I65dbJbKuMF2BolpWvSKfj9Nq2-- --SQmh8KDqTLCdu1lwwhKTFew1A01VCw46l Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEwY8kko8dNupPoLLvSWqdcGJQ1AIFAloV02oACgkQSWqdcGJQ 1AIALA//XpGRltHEBfCfiRkSjMKdzb89cvlmbi8z+hwmqEYBYBcTJFvkt8vqJXRg DTuQmowTPSvU0PRdnITbDJQZs5sfpiaPzupBFu8RgLTgNgkEIgg2df60qkq9SSb7 Y3diaAD2IDa7N6gE9DQBALwYa5dvE2LHvo3TdCxPyF1JXQ5AH56Xz1kmEnY29J7D lG7kMfGy0D2WkRBKgDcRvwWaTgTAgh0Gfwo0nyygYMDPR9Z9mQ8vQaI17qi9mRhj 2WWEUrwRxUxrjOL0HTZ4oPyYm/YOvv8dZ4id8oe9Jqw7zn98a2u4W93wSa+bVGgv R4BTS71lkyx5r5j0Wru/UKSvCuvSzGMXT8SSRQ6p5cJvxgKT77hLTGBkMAmzGpPp Apd1HL2/KRYsPNdiJ8VTOvHaVYBewh3ZENKTwU+tQPiuB/3f75eAZufqA2n1z72H bBTu3wYqTmunfWaVdpPDwcGiNYIPyplaY718wV9JzR+efoUnJza09e3i6Q7v8brb zt8aeNL81r9GbXLQxUdewGY83yPcdp5WRPBoC+jAm0SWeMoxX4Y6sEfUJXSyjacz ssN28+qSYcfhDiCDpUcFFkn31EYHXpnMOxE2q79i+nOZkRlYebCAqgWOj1KCJlRV wCymlOk11HDx6luL3RIGLojrPWRj7Q7he7e4aKOdVoSHbfbUGxs= =ANjr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --SQmh8KDqTLCdu1lwwhKTFew1A01VCw46l-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 20:06:21 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89E20DF44F3 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:06:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io0-x22a.google.com (mail-io0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52CDE67BDE for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:06:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-io0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id u42so24419861ioi.9 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 12:06:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=429+UZHyExkCuAsO1vqz+GAbsJdTDXvBCE4ZBDdAsuw=; b=aRbcHDTawbvT1+JSU1+x1r+DGfHzA9AzNezOCaU1t+mmgYfle/UwME941hjPrbRREw BYkjAsWAyvMLSEJbAhoLarLH9w0IHsLF4gFhKsokvA0rSYQYoDBgu7oz954d2DfH4CDI guBCaNbvQg/l6WpuHa/7gcHYYpsghJvQnDCJpkKl+FKhbyMgG+uVsXSDEHaBD+3Am8hW VWvEjGNYX61DriQcY+LZ78srorY6ndXImfseV5X4/vsd5TJsOfAJ7sfcdfJhUrez4Mkd 9BUOeFbW9l0c8lmwT/Zhv1rtXU8ZCgHRWBO7EckUqJC0oxa5gXPMahob57oyEOpaaW4N tokA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=429+UZHyExkCuAsO1vqz+GAbsJdTDXvBCE4ZBDdAsuw=; b=sqdJLGbhvioZT5lbP5XZVp88nL58LPUhS/yat3CJru6bfcEjhyB6lGHBwLQiONp0wz zO4jvAvRy6pagCerTN37jH3pglePUIjbOj8MCxrx6qCVQLq++xgeHH9Hj8JGC8GQU6A2 ksrsis+HgJRDQ/bQIK7SLvR7yGhG14B2wuODtHACbKYdN6jadBMEKMslns4pRO/jDXSb pJ/b2kLC61cZqGWllO7adyImDm+pz1wfRcu4Opx6Zk6FoBs748VVjUMnpPt0UZCAsefk 3nGRnEk6bOAM05oh4C/p2ooa/CFPYwEF0ATHA8nYS9eRIFJsEm5XsNVsGL4ygD5KhRr+ wZ/A== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7psVXQUaCA/Hnwgx6cSvwB/Ci9D7jAQ1/BfZyCOvxFFa16ox+f VJOwR/uvpOAx9HkWv0iQzpBjtiwYPT4aITK5EKnpCQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbsHRPxc15DdquD0MYQzjXQn18UJ8XUptWBd6hekie9+wBC/ouVuMP6MqOJXpf00+6FWjrYaM2BCYzC1LviHqk= X-Received: by 10.107.48.197 with SMTP id w188mr21706497iow.301.1511381180462; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 12:06:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.79.108.204 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 12:06:19 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:6561:a5e8:a74:eef3] In-Reply-To: References: From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:06:19 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: b88asgL5VJOUcybVaTdy2sJl_nE Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: Johannes Jost Meixner Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:06:21 -0000 On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Johannes Jost Meixner < johannes@perceivon.net> wrote: > > With the removal of the fortune datfiles I think it=E2=80=99s time to h= ave a > discussion about fortune(6). > > Maybe this is a good moment to realize the change was contentious, > should have been discussed before, and must be reverted. > Honestly, what's the alternative? We curate the F out of this file and have people dog our every decision because it doesn't fit with the Republican, Democratic, Green, Liberal, Conservative, Torre, Whig, Socialist, Communist, Yankee, Confederate, Know Nothings, Bull Moose Party, Blues, Reds, Pinks, Kill All The Humans, Walrus Supremacists, Bongo the Pet Seal Horn Blowers or the actually evil Nazi[*] viewpoint? No, we can't be unbiased because there's something in there to offend just about everybody. Even the actual Nazi stuff people are whining about, and that's about as clear cut an example of evil as exists in our times. If we can't agree on even that, there's no hope for the rest. Do we want to spend project time on curating an impossible tangle that our current dysfunctional political climate (at least in my country) has become? Or do we want to spend time upping our game on EFI, fixing VM issues, making the installer better, etc, etc, etc. We're a technical project, primarily, not one that has a political agenda. Warner [*] Don't like my viewpoint? I've proven my point. Not all these view points are actually real. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 20:34:18 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4EBDF51C2; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:34:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from smtp2.wemm.org (smtp2.wemm.org [IPv6:2001:470:67:39d::78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp2.wemm.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96DD968E27; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:34:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from overcee.wemm.org (canning.wemm.org [192.203.228.65]) by smtp2.wemm.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D724C4EE; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 12:34:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wemm.org; s=m20140428; t=1511382852; bh=3gYGk9dcYlI0zfWWdRmVQe7/cmVER4ymWGTSDlG3/Jw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=MyXFbb52zCiJ/4SRtZv8UeqVU75qkUufA1/+kJbdmYJarefJVrfX/EqJPUh3K7+fa Y+zNdNrZBpJwpe/dbcojBApD06/6Lys4O76HQREM3+aaQ1DLojESkc+R9dvdCyL46h a92qkHFaRHnqvnycUGGkMxOdfpYIe9IXo5f6oAkU= From: Peter Wemm To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Cc: Benno Rice , sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 12:34:07 -0800 Message-ID: <12703055.AoRsRdyBz0@overcee.wemm.org> User-Agent: KMail/4.14.10 (FreeBSD/12.0-CURRENT; KDE/4.14.30; amd64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <64AB4D76-B239-4E49-8D30-CF6D5D5D88A4@FreeBSD.org> References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <20171122173537.GA54395@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <64AB4D76-B239-4E49-8D30-CF6D5D5D88A4@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1886876.OTk7jl52Bl"; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:34:18 -0000 --nextPart1886876.OTk7jl52Bl Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 11:22:41 AM Benno Rice wrote: > > On Nov 22, 2017, at 09:35, Steve Kargl > > wrote:>=20 > > When functionality is removed from src, a port is usually created. > > The datfiles should be available from ports/games/bsd-fortune. >=20 > Feel free to create it. If someone else wants to take editorial > responsibility for those files I=E2=80=99m all for it. FreeBSD should= not be taking > responsibility for them and I don=E2=80=99t wish to take that respons= ibility > either. If I add up the person-hours expended on fortune related drama over the= 22=20 years I've been involved in the project then I quickly come to the conc= lusion=20 that it should go. For as long as I can remember, it has been *the* dr= ama=20 lightning rod for the project. With regret, I'm in the 'move to ports' camp on this. The whole thing,= =20 including tips. However, I'd be in favor of something like having freebsd-tips be offer= ed as a=20 default post-install package in the installer. =2D-=20 Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; KI= 6FJV UTF-8: for when a ' or ... just won\342\200\231t do\342\200\246 --nextPart1886876.OTk7jl52Bl Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAABCAAdFiEEBgrA0Vr/vfNVuPoUNdaXCeyAngQFAloV3z8ACgkQNdaXCeyA ngRUdAf/dTYKS/gwPptZUm41+yH9UVr+hXO76geAfy6Zw5jpeYv6PTXMYobVgr0Z 15q1z/C9vG4dA3vv9tuaaHN8/B2FKHBYO1I3mC0GYP6FZZXJYQsR/UvCS9vuYOWQ vBr/Py+sVDBVFYgArKQ8BaMAkq7OtnLnxzowP/2XbkZSpNB5D9iSKlPBFixyDgYF YX2AXjsY+jBtGAesBPogoaIcB4lUzJOquOaArGnx/nFMg6CRUxplAD4wM1L9mjgL wbxKY/xH55YptsK2p+clIawyNRNWXaUxgJR0a41P7KhUKGfXwRmuhii/7NtTHTcj aN3yZMwq+ztVbvQUDv5Wxq/8odB6EA== =foVv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1886876.OTk7jl52Bl-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 20:35:33 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFBDFDF52A7 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:35:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from AWilcox@Wilcox-Tech.com) Received: from mail.wilcox-tech.com (mail.wilcox-tech.com [45.32.83.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.wilcox-tech.com", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94C2A68F60 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:35:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from AWilcox@Wilcox-Tech.com) Received: (qmail 19156 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2017 20:28:49 -0000 Received: from 107-131-85-28.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net (HELO ?192.168.1.78?) (awilcox@wilcox-tech.com@107.131.85.28) by mail.wilcox-tech.com with ESMTPA; 22 Nov 2017 20:28:49 -0000 Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: From: "A. Wilcox" X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <5A15DDFA.8060302@Wilcox-Tech.com> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 14:28:42 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="UMABukqBQ8AL8M9mi8SEiMr0clTs3Efi3" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:35:33 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --UMABukqBQ8AL8M9mi8SEiMr0clTs3Efi3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 22/11/17 14:06, Warner Losh wrote: > We're a technical project, primarily, not one that has a > political agenda. perhaps that is why so many people are confused by its removal. If there is no political agenda, then moving the entire thing to a port would have been the right thing to do =E2=80=93 including the datfiles. Oh well, political correctness already took three other projects to rubbish. It was only a matter of time before it came for FreeBSD too. Especially since this removal was done under the cover of darkness, with no community involvement. You can't have it both ways. Either FreeBSD is apolitical, and therefore does not *have* a view on the quotes included in the datfiles, and therefore does not care that they stay; or FreeBSD is now political, and taking a side that the quotes included are offensive. And just so we're clear: I say this as a non-binary person who is an LGBT rights and environmental activist. The whole point of fortune is to be offensively funny. Take a joke. Or don't, and move it to a port. But get all the way out of my inbox with the white knighting, please. --arw --=20 A. Wilcox (awilfox) Open-source programmer (C, C++, Python) https://code.foxkit.us/u/awilfox/ --UMABukqBQ8AL8M9mi8SEiMr0clTs3Efi3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJaFd37AAoJEMspy1GSK50UT6kP/RP+UcQK3+s+dtnZ7s45MoYu Rtbw/PhzDmrtZWfXH8Bkp1gONvM03io5REwcf1/Rzd+lwKE7U6zs4m6UmID+GmAF LscIUd0zImXigYB+w49wCjOxHpqH3PimYGxsqSIQw2zFY9rOAl0wuRL3B/cZUDvj 44CJlnybPq1qSCS50oFF+Gubihk9f/9Uxwcldc+SDv62ATGihh9/3orlvTfgxzWS h6jVymbFcRqqPN3rb5yZfJc0tus4TuhSDzyR+KVnioJKaueVIJ5vtLS6jAIwOeqK HDDAmpfg5+LG/myek/KGrdfX6vgc99xmJdYbqvhjCXmJIYJ79rlnn16at5nnmh+n kGgE4pkQfNjzGrGFTlxUKHghDPXel8lEbZTsM8RMy7pBVKOBAeBDYpfPChI9x0pV Cpu7tglZC1+g0Jad5kJLa+k3DMO61JAYh+n97gtUFODQ0+m/e/uv7IGzaI5+jyTh B5c2GTS12Ius93gCMzt3eAP4asU/dXhY13LP6/xeM7FVwerGC2MyLy6gayZ6nbX+ a25vENVQ4DTTIos2na/OkKE5HV4oYrLrMq5ho2nrQkxrrnhfp3WdIEyt7DCpMTWJ PsYFlaftQWW7XDCVOV+HKYpXh+LvJQCP4LaPnPQYAbiN+wyaQhAnPV0WlmvqvsOf Zpp0ysrfu+rjtrPSgp1C =ZtIc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UMABukqBQ8AL8M9mi8SEiMr0clTs3Efi3-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 20:39:10 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0341BDF5494 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:39:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@perceivon.net) Received: from mail-lf0-x22a.google.com (mail-lf0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DFC5691ED for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:39:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johannes@perceivon.net) Received: by mail-lf0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id y2so18761768lfj.4 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 12:39:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=perceivon-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=W2K4oF57dli40r2nm8HVyeiEzbysZanJuCezUc/o2xU=; b=xz0hNRXe4jKqnglmYVSHbFE+hNw8SgPnLB87CKaraeAXAP5pC5OkEF+m//jz9AFXXI ZKAfQ2UfZDt5nmXmN0dyAIpelKHhJXh23CflSC1KRel87dmRKffsSeGngq9m8QQmsyYM uWnkQd635UJXirWUyjIn7tcxCIIuGSfDXm0DvC2u3dfVkcT/63D/vsh1qr/OZbqqAInh rFFGmVGX6m13Izjk67p4pdJiEIYs5XLx+cYo48XrsEb3mOW2BpdS2tpWwLNwHEIsbON3 tci3swMUVeL6pyQFFOmnjGo/ihyjJEjwl3IVlaDnByfQJQI2Yo5aNtq3M8iJ59qnn4cR dj1w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=W2K4oF57dli40r2nm8HVyeiEzbysZanJuCezUc/o2xU=; b=SVr91IoM5aaMooMic4CHepGDmOav/LSOjW6VMZoWIm1mwGqekcPqom2qx40A0zEhf2 Gz+dfWeEYw6Cvl8/xt6PDfGSlQpQtOAXFkdXxR4SgQeZRpfxx8B7OdkdjRTKdC0gHRoH oeh8wmIr5L39jp7XiKDo06o9nHbgSm3xQldQPJWJSRmHZNa8OAbSw47ZLmyPDtRYYAU1 bJh9EmDKK925n4MHSEugTsPe2kFEYXeBfNmhO5UvV/hTgx3f3mpQQbHywHYn0RBu4y8P pwXzIrdbEdjBWQAP4rhfyA/nGdWiHqxIucPMsr6VAl737vLswfnTHxytFUCQJSVXWk/M WZaw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4sI6r0BVE+XEyf1QOFD8ABdmEMjX9vk+5FtCGsMTeUw+3RYwYA kfodqrKk69+QMg60ZmV9rFBGAS+j X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZ4/jqZmLHx3/9/d4d6xawLbkWiADEbHpU+63csSFZgRGrI6/+bAPcSjLs0Vf+Z9g1DcHKKWA== X-Received: by 10.25.115.212 with SMTP id h81mr6193291lfk.100.1511383147651; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 12:39:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx16 (101.177.50.84.sta.estpak.ee. [84.50.177.101]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n9sm3823257ljb.1.2017.11.22.12.39.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 22 Nov 2017 12:39:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost.lan [127.0.0.1]) by mx16 (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 3f5fe9e0; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 22:38:23 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: Warner Losh Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" References: From: Johannes Jost Meixner Organization: Perceivon Hosting Inc. Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 22:38:19 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0ncDSj1EDR0vbWrIeGjPpCNRgx3Xnccm3" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:39:10 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --0ncDSj1EDR0vbWrIeGjPpCNRgx3Xnccm3 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="q5DFHJW23Mqbb6bOrsmIBdUDGb84RbDWC"; protected-headers="v1" From: Johannes Jost Meixner To: Warner Losh Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) References: In-Reply-To: --q5DFHJW23Mqbb6bOrsmIBdUDGb84RbDWC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 11/22/2017 22:06, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Johannes Jost Meixner > > wrote: >=20 > > With the removal of the fortune datfiles I think it=E2=80=99s tim= e to have a > discussion about fortune(6). >=20 > Maybe this is a good moment to realize the change was contentious, > should have been discussed before, and must be reverted. >=20 >=20 > Honestly, what's the alternative? We curate the F out of this file and > have people dog our every decision because it doesn't fit with the > Republican, Democratic, Green, Liberal, Conservative, Torre, Whig, > Socialist, Communist, Yankee, Confederate, Know Nothings, Bull Moose > Party, Blues, Reds, Pinks, Kill All The Humans, Walrus Supremacists, > Bongo the Pet Seal Horn Blowers or the actually evil Nazi[*] viewpoint?= > No, we can't be unbiased because there's something in there to offend > just about everybody. Even the actual Nazi stuff people are whining > about, and that's about as clear cut an example of evil as exists in ou= r > times. If we can't agree on even that, there's no hope for the rest.=20 People will dogpile every discussion regardless, it's a people thing. If you give people the means to state their opinion they will, invariably, do that. The interesting part here is whether you do it beforehand - and go with the consensus (or, at least, majority vote) or do what may seem like arbitrary, unilateral actions. If we can't agree on having a discussion about which action to take first, then there's no hope for the rest. > Do > we want to spend project time on curating an impossible tangle that our > current dysfunctional political climate (at least in my country) has > become? Time has shown that we do that regardless of intentions. One thing I'm wondering is if - in an international project - humor has become such a touchy subject, especially in the wider Anglosphere, that it's best not to try? >Or do we want to spend time upping our game on EFI, fixing VM > issues, making the installer better, etc, etc, etc. We're a technical > project, primarily, not one that has a political agenda. I completely agree. Still, some things should to be discussed publicly (and this may be a better form than on 4chan+slashdot). --q5DFHJW23Mqbb6bOrsmIBdUDGb84RbDWC-- --0ncDSj1EDR0vbWrIeGjPpCNRgx3Xnccm3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEwY8kko8dNupPoLLvSWqdcGJQ1AIFAloV4DsACgkQSWqdcGJQ 1AKgIQ//VlGpBZ/BXst+uBBXynFSTetMKlbGHKek04owE8AMowmPoonCajq7u/6C mUV2q8c4OthNKhreqDY31DbkUuMbab0CkeC8rRjgilhCNVPZloEnSd5UdndeCblw fi9Mt29oynbPtchQ4mrvYSo2RWS5CQSJGZHvqKHBOsLJZlLXt4AsGF87r+mMihcv +dlR1WGZSQNDL+RTptqG6K9Etzn9a9JxnQXFKbrMlj72I8cpjWXfaJo5cNrx/O3Y jpyjXcORxxLMzTEBv5py5Fol9pm9SH/U+5IXhmlsJIsYg6vq+mOC+zikZhomMfgA r5g30cuR4phZnzrusqL7NMnoTwV/fekumkktAQTrrsIIhvPjO/PlWzcIqCqM7ODW xSh5KDmsBaU6f7861vQT5jsa9H3Jlt0e9QzJz6zLJVFo3TmxJAB2ngN/tvMHxvVJ HwrJ1Y+0mUJDWUHyadotAADXMtMhHG84zH3N1BOIg40t2qib0eiHiqrkxqzcKX5R dCY1qfW5JcKIG3Y4baUw3viawYWdMfarTHG5ItlqoYAaZ6V5reTXvaLFSszcoQ5c AZBoJGb3d73gvu8L3vZy9RRxogtHVi8aI/tgXWE42gWFSr/FSt5D3UOfnjdP0aMO z+egcJokCcph9BESZRnolpEdkFqRgJKwg6NYMHTJpshGzCUvbT0= =RQDg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0ncDSj1EDR0vbWrIeGjPpCNRgx3Xnccm3-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 20:44:55 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DD38DF575B for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:44:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io0-x234.google.com (mail-io0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D69AE69680 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:44:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-io0-x234.google.com with SMTP id u42so24516947ioi.9 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 12:44:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=86DhjtRNY4fSvgYUNKn/cQpQcRYcJ7nUdRTzkPz2mNs=; b=PcfZJK3m85BUlxPUIiDen7J7YpdTMLdHzsqatOXuomxl3WT2OphZJma/+Cpojl8iHb FNGefFk3WqBQ+UHCHeQQ78FZRIycgUC8CZlCgzBJvOW2Kr2DE11CBmpsP2f6Ou9cqYOw SweY+QeD82pOqqkvxa/DxSgpft4J0P9Q9orN9dEZ1oTjeX8a/XRg94RR0I86+PkdbZ7H Xa0ctIzUDZ6k5OwsM/GV3X/Y8Svaa55GM96YvATHmq/N6bAOloz2CzMprIcz9X5dRFZR o2uZVOorlZ8028snUutjsPNuUlVIhul4wkD3deOgjzbILruyn9l2b+3wqPG41rLtfMfk +KOA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=86DhjtRNY4fSvgYUNKn/cQpQcRYcJ7nUdRTzkPz2mNs=; b=n600NzL2EqwRDfVGhuvPoyr/dW6VJbSDsIWGcjS+tfWAyP5uog1IxzIQX6mDMJIGqQ cZiqi01YzSE8fkw4cHWDsWRiaxUmNwFj9wzDQctJLDFhZNoQgWVEzYzwi/jAF6vopKtv /Ndxn6d1SDivv3amrUbyGLf5yJeG7IwCaVGQCKt8xXeB9kU5C6j4DT6X37JWTL53j0Zr 3nok/tO5FNjd+SloaZuEEJWEbj/HeDlwR5kR+xJqPTFhlcoM1bmF2rfSdR3IUjsRGH3d 6ywU6gl8v1oBbU4Db5nSppPManczcJ/eYKHoMB95ylPOmH4JKW6VKFv9EP66r2c1IFn+ K+uw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4G/AqkmOp7/9t+ObUuYZf31OyvrS5Gg3tihYx22HFDYvYeT3Tx BpTojiBag0uzTYNSXkUXQUt/Fi8nKfoCO6FOwOZ4VA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbuB2WuRgCTK3klxswFf+N+aaZlEk+aLRQRMNNABKfZi2hhv8JjN5Eq66b1nZlj8Ye2bT3CZ4Nl7cMRF/IHv7o= X-Received: by 10.107.52.140 with SMTP id b134mr6966256ioa.291.1511383493980; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 12:44:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.79.108.204 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 12:44:53 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:6561:a5e8:a74:eef3] In-Reply-To: <5A15DDFA.8060302@Wilcox-Tech.com> References: <5A15DDFA.8060302@Wilcox-Tech.com> From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:44:53 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: MmInd8ihecBn1p0C9oymne7ryLM Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: "A. Wilcox" Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 20:44:55 -0000 On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 1:28 PM, A. Wilcox wrote: > On 22/11/17 14:06, Warner Losh wrote: > > We're a technical project, primarily, not one that has a > > political agenda. > > > perhaps that is why so many people are confused by its removal > There's no confusion: The file expresses many political views and doesn't express other views. Curating that mess is impossible. The only way to say we don't care is to kick it to the curb. If there is no political agenda, then moving the entire thing to a port > would have been the right thing to do =E2=80=93 including the datfiles. > No. That would also give the project's endorsement to it. Gone is 'no opinion at all' we have. > Oh well, political correctness already took three other projects to > rubbish. And there we have it. No further logical discussion is possible. Invoking both a logical fallacy and a straw man attack based on it. Twisting "no view at all on this stuff" into political correctness simply doesn't follow unless you view your world through some twisted political lense. Thank you for proving my point that trying to rationally discuss this matter is quite simply impossible. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 21:16:27 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77E52DF5EED for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 21:16:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from AWilcox@Wilcox-Tech.com) Received: from mail.wilcox-tech.com (mail.wilcox-tech.com [45.32.83.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.wilcox-tech.com", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5EDA66A5D4 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 21:16:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from AWilcox@Wilcox-Tech.com) Received: (qmail 21156 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2017 21:16:23 -0000 Received: from 107-131-85-28.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net (HELO ?192.168.1.78?) (awilcox@wilcox-tech.com@107.131.85.28) by mail.wilcox-tech.com with ESMTPA; 22 Nov 2017 21:16:23 -0000 Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) References: <5A15DDFA.8060302@Wilcox-Tech.com> To: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" From: "A. Wilcox" X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <5A15E921.8000007@Wilcox-Tech.com> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 15:16:17 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FmSlNbXx2Xsm7w9ttJQlSDIWFiDfRonDS" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 21:16:27 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --FmSlNbXx2Xsm7w9ttJQlSDIWFiDfRonDS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 22/11/17 14:44, Warner Losh wrote: > If there is no political agenda, then moving the entire thing to a = port > would have been the right thing to do =E2=80=93 including the datfi= les. >=20 >=20 > No. That would also give the project's endorsement to it. Gone is 'no > opinion at all' we have. And *since* you have decided that "having a port" implies endorsement of a project, before I archive this thread, here are a few more ports that you should probably poke portmaster about: # Mention of BDSM (BSDM?) and "sexy" outfits devel/py-leather # Depicts realistic situations involving stealing property games/narcissu2 # More potentially offensive phrases games/sex # Useless anyway if fortune(1) is removed misc/fortune-* # FreeBSD is endorsing one religion over the other misc/bibletime misc/brs misc/sword # The INSULTS configuration option security/sudo # Supporting a murderer sysutils/progsreiserfs --=20 A. Wilcox (awilfox) Open-source programmer (C, C++, Python) https://code.foxkit.us/u/awilfox/ --FmSlNbXx2Xsm7w9ttJQlSDIWFiDfRonDS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJaFekhAAoJEMspy1GSK50U4NAQAI9gfTALOS1KF6YoYob4kYvu SyyiGgjUQ3nROURWsxP8WrwE71fIj93/qthm1AnhWjvYAyzqxWNumb7vxP5KG9Sx jVnlSodVPUVrc3ZfIXGtJRKzxEahx1ncls9mdmfv0Zk1zAJpaByEL7FTDS0KTDSx lJSRoddhR+Z4EzVEkD31qJxmpm8y6zmvt43Cmnisce/NWHNiY8ezg3AjBs6LzOwV CUvsQYRm4Y1+x02fyEskVU2zlxe6WAu6oUJjp/6DihRMxOoYEXGtmfbdtdTiLyO5 4dGbLeC3qXAdrbddposWaz0nVk5LzHvKnngoPS2ivU4mT6OYCJSv+LVnFzTXntJU YYTDWNWPPBznmzW2lj1RaXmiwfQjx6VIIvEFwrchO3byyXvgXgGgIRblPl+G2KIo leDYcjYDJ9AbcmvMj+bQ5FH4w5QH2jzruRMbAv3dZiDpp6bSrkKj32xYMyh83UVu mpgypBCtMMVMZk8tIAyQWksebYKriaoA9fGau1BXcYqicP8MOdRwVh627DarLqCt j4W+PxqTQIpGZV/1Xj3rAVgcHOPX5lVBRn74dU+9v60puRHa4r0KZwOIaY5mBLjw POx/xFqq+5NxgZfssXYeN2SOGD8XbwBWfs98mYei53GVOqO5CUL6qGGuYSRAoovM rPTKSxwgeaO3qUyHbhbC =Yu0Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FmSlNbXx2Xsm7w9ttJQlSDIWFiDfRonDS-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 21:24:58 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E41ADF6301 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 21:24:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io0-x22d.google.com (mail-io0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF33D6ADE5 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 21:24:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-io0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id g73so24599845ioj.8 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:24:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=WTYdc2igxcR+Na1PCujMAeZloRYQjuFUKC5slnlJ9ws=; b=18D1ejyCZ/bHldiP0aYPKnuVCMDBEArsW5Hz8oPw7ZWJqJ5RnpUPuqxUgUcgHzh8ap 53Q+I8SjYQxZkX+BfwBsavKWiZzF9fXOFFhmh5F2Pz5BBYc9r9RCfErbgyh3Vj5X4FFA 6NqoTYqoEja8e/HHIGNW8XrPNE4OyJ2qg9C2HeTv5CIqxQ6FUG8IV9dOmRd07HXdgclf s2zZ8gB30RqUJ1QRWi9QI+P0il9MZruA4DjMDSFoih/OJ+DFVsVh/fUQ8pUx+NWve4+V oPfS+GJC9EYk6epUUcgRe/vEry5s8y0QqZQxh4cA2Wo+mdYKziA0uB+20MYFwP08Y4mo SW4Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WTYdc2igxcR+Na1PCujMAeZloRYQjuFUKC5slnlJ9ws=; b=KTB13hLRvEzfxbmVbI8YzIwWBCRyNiS5iDVnnd7qxnFPQ5S43VU/tDvFeMOdWGPZLD Ui8ynNN3AMpMSDD6knrOpf1AV2XDvETETh1ZkhrRdFyvH7ZmJpOLyvPRDbtj4gLE3/mi QlqPN5NJCmdXhZTZk5ZEIE/9wtxBmc2evzWMmB56LYAdA09CMGHM3QijZtMuAfBne+Vn W/6HgdC3QCWGtVlOhT7aDuISt4BCX4CwSWbG8HVMQMT2BSQ/8tFnXBvrGe0LGBtErKhc 5CTACQcGmGADVHLVRvP8by8AsfpqTXBGZL5lduN5hoYsBT5TSWcfzr+x/fXg5Nz9lrFK xeuw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6y6jT2i5xHqFy2KCTs5oInYqjzCAlHwvkTyaF+HgrwybWAHYoB PM6dg/sD1r9KVYEskL/EtS5nUx/oS/plYNoItKH5WQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZiEhbts1hc7gqhe9vNo5qZDBEvF20iT36TyT7ZneivDPqXuMVDVGKZHOzERqn6QIbqH/IVDiXv74J+mEUOORo= X-Received: by 10.107.52.140 with SMTP id b134mr7099614ioa.291.1511385896810; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:24:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.79.108.204 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:24:56 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:6561:a5e8:a74:eef3] In-Reply-To: <5A15E921.8000007@Wilcox-Tech.com> References: <5A15DDFA.8060302@Wilcox-Tech.com> <5A15E921.8000007@Wilcox-Tech.com> From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 14:24:56 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 1xIdCVwmydC_2ExjoF5ub7Jj7Yo Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: "A. Wilcox" Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 21:24:58 -0000 On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 2:16 PM, A. Wilcox wrote: > On 22/11/17 14:44, Warner Losh wrote: > > If there is no political agenda, then moving the entire thing to a > port > > would have been the right thing to do =E2=80=93 including the datfi= les. > > > > > > No. That would also give the project's endorsement to it. Gone is 'no > > opinion at all' we have. > > > And *since* you have decided that "having a port" implies endorsement of > a project, before I archive this thread, here are a few more ports that > you should probably poke portmaster about: > We've removed ports before because we don't believe they reflect well on the project. However, the examples you cite are lame. None of them that I could tell rise to the same level as what we're talking about. In no case, except maybe the fortune ones, does the project curate a number of disparate views that omits other views. Resorting to this extreme level of "what about"ism isn't helpful in having a rational discussion. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 21:34:21 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 028FFDF65C0; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 21:34:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D008E6B2FB; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 21:34:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 81F571212; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 15:34:13 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 15:34:12 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Benno Rice Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Message-ID: <20171122213411.GA32396@lonesome.com> References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 21:34:21 -0000 Blue. mcl From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 22:35:07 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B369BDF7515 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 22:35:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c17:6c4b::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 705216D04E for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 22:35:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2016.home.selasky.org (unknown [62.141.128.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9F72326014D; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 23:35:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: "A. Wilcox" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" References: <5A15DDFA.8060302@Wilcox-Tech.com> <5A15E921.8000007@Wilcox-Tech.com> From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: <85e7850e-9f9b-4fe5-5d30-9f6fe8d07519@selasky.org> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 23:32:14 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5A15E921.8000007@Wilcox-Tech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 22:35:07 -0000 On 11/22/17 22:16, A. Wilcox wrote: > On 22/11/17 14:44, Warner Losh wrote: >> If there is no political agenda, then moving the entire thing to a port >> would have been the right thing to do – including the datfiles. >> >> >> No. That would also give the project's endorsement to it. Gone is 'no >> opinion at all' we have. > > > And *since* you have decided that "having a port" implies endorsement of > a project, before I archive this thread, here are a few more ports that > you should probably poke portmaster about: > Hi, The FreeBSD project already changed its logo to be more friendly and I think it is sad when people misunderstand the FreeBSD's Beastie trying to attribute myself as a FreeBSD developer certain attributes. Humor and irony is individual like Warner pointed out and some people will never understand it and take it literally instead. By deleting the non-FreeBSD fortunes are we certain we solve a problem and don't simply move it somewhere else? About offensive port names, how about "/usr/ports/print/removethedots" :-) --HPS From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 23:12:25 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 592EBDF7DA7 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 23:12:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Thomas.Sparrevohn@btinternet.com) Received: from rgout01.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (rgout0103.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk [65.20.0.123]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB0F66E0E0 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 23:12:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Thomas.Sparrevohn@btinternet.com) X-OWM-Source-IP: 86.130.69.36 (GB) X-OWM-Env-Sender: Thomas.Sparrevohn@btinternet.com Received: from ThomasPC (86.130.69.36) by rgout01.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (9.0.019.13-1) (authenticated as Thomas.Sparrevohn) id 597450640CD100F7; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 23:05:05 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1511392345; bh=CfnOMnf/w4mA3DF/bgqYAMRRxE42Z3FLEVJDwiLRryY=; h=From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:X-Mailer; b=wYHRklMMbU3gefY4vXL/QA5UcQtbrSxP3vSHM/xD8pWVYW+y743hgF6RAnW1sSzj8ERlyEici15i81g5cKWnVkfEnzQeUqQAFxPgWCXTb9ZCANmrtRNRE9NGmtlBXYnqhQ9xAjiRjUGkKcVAcJ9jSY9kgE+7wrjW1y3Ij3jWRZA= From: "Thomas Sparrevohn" To: "'Hans Petter Selasky'" , "'A. Wilcox'" , References: <5A15DDFA.8060302@Wilcox-Tech.com> <5A15E921.8000007@Wilcox-Tech.com> <85e7850e-9f9b-4fe5-5d30-9f6fe8d07519@selasky.org> In-Reply-To: <85e7850e-9f9b-4fe5-5d30-9f6fe8d07519@selasky.org> Subject: RE: The future of fortune(6) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 23:05:04 -0000 Message-ID: <006201d363e6$558e66a0$00ab33e0$@btinternet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AQG0Ke7rUOWHgO0AO8CCYT3N6RhGWgJksVpvAZ4KmocB+K0u8gHYfxJEAhHZgICjEEmsYA== Content-Language: en-gb X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 23:12:25 -0000 Personally I be sad to see it go...fortune has been around for a very = long time and reminds me of more innocent days where a bit of fun was a = given part of the game - I remember porting it to Minix once and I = struggle to see what harm it can do - but then again I am an old git=20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org = [mailto:owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Hans Petter Selasky Sent: 22 November 2017 22:32 To: A. Wilcox ; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) On 11/22/17 22:16, A. Wilcox wrote: > On 22/11/17 14:44, Warner Losh wrote: >> If there is no political agenda, then moving the entire thing to = a port >> would have been the right thing to do =E2=80=93 including the = datfiles. >> >> >> No. That would also give the project's endorsement to it. Gone is 'no = >> opinion at all' we have. >=20 >=20 > And *since* you have decided that "having a port" implies endorsement=20 > of a project, before I archive this thread, here are a few more ports=20 > that you should probably poke portmaster about: >=20 Hi, The FreeBSD project already changed its logo to be more friendly and I = think it is sad when people misunderstand the FreeBSD's Beastie trying = to attribute myself as a FreeBSD developer certain attributes. Humor and irony is individual like Warner pointed out and some people = will never understand it and take it literally instead. By deleting the non-FreeBSD fortunes are we certain we solve a problem = and don't simply move it somewhere else? About offensive port names, how about "/usr/ports/print/removethedots" = :-) --HPS _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 23:31:04 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC2F6DF827B for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 23:31:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jim@netgate.com) Received: from mail-oi0-x22a.google.com (mail-oi0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E6306E7CB for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 23:31:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jim@netgate.com) Received: by mail-oi0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id e142so12079828oih.2 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 15:31:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=netgate.com; s=google; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=fum0wY7gcT+YBAVO0VJKmTHarx3Ha+k/uguX02njkP4=; b=CucYwutT5JDv9vF0z4UJtIS1tT9SCqzDk7MYGK3qFc80bqB7BFzFhJgmIXTOAMTTLa t68UPjRGp3sHQvxQezZggbsoUm8ffmJToTSVIUvtApTu7aFQK+LtQGMCEJIhTI7qtFZ/ xjcP+TvA5l3tPNU/+PZcqWzAYk+lT0D6D4FoQ= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=fum0wY7gcT+YBAVO0VJKmTHarx3Ha+k/uguX02njkP4=; b=IggCwjoW8PO+uBqjOo9ED3FKB4XeQntuzEhoykE0weSsxJNlvnYzeYtocyNKxbOV/K 5W3/5sGXv6U6XU1yCrIwEWFGw3GOi+chl5O9HE9dBFjTLWqzB6JGpMbufyAWU3gna+fE 2Kgeh5fr0DBnDmPBkG9Ig0v6rejDj3D7Jfj9T5iYa2mCA4PIIVhDbqyvDK1f2gCbF/Yk YTj7JPOgOpzUCm+LKGZ3rza7caGmP19G1/vp6j9qPAJwzJuJL8rfU8jH1PebpHp39QtO /jNVnfBwdcaNw9ZO1L1NPyKx4CWZCUfMnGRF8cyyO95K2ZA5Vxv4Zc7Q+Vg6WiIvOeWh seDw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5BzzLBYFXNKW09vd028I+QOXfspccMW8xA9CqSQtnWjQYdsEks cPQH5RC4sdhV3gapoCiT2cYbUw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZDjLCwEtjmWciIvEGvDeKEqx9Extd1r3nT5+jffb5jLxiwUgwRq0vcP9HJlQj3McPAuz1XZw== X-Received: by 10.202.117.198 with SMTP id q189mr4865331oic.90.1511393463614; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 15:31:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.27.33.51] ([208.123.73.28]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p8sm7007713oif.22.2017.11.22.15.31.02 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 22 Nov 2017 15:31:03 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) From: Jim Thompson In-Reply-To: <20171122213411.GA32396@lonesome.com> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:31:02 -0600 Cc: Benno Rice , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <26410955-6888-42AE-BF95-678B46E4B49C@netgate.com> References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <20171122213411.GA32396@lonesome.com> To: Mark Linimon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 23:31:04 -0000 Yes, but=E2=80=A6 which blue? 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Ip=[66.129.239.12]; Helo=[p-emfe01a-sac.jnpr.net] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR0501MB2067 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-11-22_07:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=2 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1709140000 definitions=main-1711230000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 00:18:45 -0000 Warner Losh wrote: > No. That would also give the project's endorsement to it. Gone is 'no > opinion at all' we have. Clearly there is an opinion being expressed; namely that way too many people in the world today, spend way too much time and effort getting way too upset about anything and everything. There is not a topic that you can discuss today that will not offend *someone*. Free speech is on it's way to becomming a myth, thanks to "social media". This thread is just another example. Personally I've enjoyed fortune over the last 30 years or so, but I'm not easily offended, it's demise is a symptom of a great evil. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 23 01:02:24 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB9D3DFA3EF for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:02:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x230.google.com (mail-wm0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DE7472E35 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:02:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x230.google.com with SMTP id g130so15412272wme.0 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:02:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=2bNPR/ttzifI+VwMPQAdg4pp9l0kJX4sGLezjyd7uWE=; b=Iu45jMmkGr00RLgs4yZ5lMvHIr8ZrGE/XprMcvsXr9LKSAtlq1IMXH2/7kFf+ZJVQZ M1CMBIro7CJaxJdzqrFkUzyeA95LOnZAeVHGE+epqT3bB4uMJNkKV+tjz2wYBCAXBZ9g 5UcOVFIzptLEXIVLkIrfUl2CZKHdlk8v1Vhjijej/ZjTTU3Ft6DMK6WEtBNxTpXR8SW0 H4HuM3Z1/c8K+rkTQACenw07Vr8YBxdKRe/AspuHPHQFKsDKpqlnRaLNFaY/wme4Zgv8 vRGSwef+stFf+ifqYpbbvaW/Tp70wmC8wdoXo+xr+9Km9Tq6bJImXtbK7x9YehIsMurH tdpg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2bNPR/ttzifI+VwMPQAdg4pp9l0kJX4sGLezjyd7uWE=; b=Hc/Mx8ndNErri47RsmrZKgS5omMKx/l+OZiVmpMeWlnej148NxbJZVHiK6fl1lLvRW 74N/e3JZkEPAJrhAmfLQdSdoBTY8Q9wk2rPSHZPJAUvLkJ7r66t9e5dI23JNMROEjnrP DRjho9qPQ3j0Ee5n7MYFAZyy4CdSSJyc1++bbjBFJ4iW5jbBIAsxaWcO3FezFvKus5FK kLFIv+gRzmEY2mT9VGWyrxBMnR/RXKoYxlyMFouQCMrxHJHvWxa07ITdUElSWhi8BywG v1JY/q2B06CaPRMoDxmMQlT75pWtk+F02fmg64onungUMzbcCq1WiEn5qp7YUYzdlFD+ YffQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6XMn/sEuExsORsOQP+bfXISLMBU2ZjaiPvrTK/pAIJr2ybYbe6 cAyQXr+tzcWjuIUHp47hYHWTNFNcH2vxPVcmqzU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbstFQZRQto0dPOEQ5vUQBemHWqLVZCxTlbIvumYM/Fy93wC2bv163XaAEqPFdqy15n59JywcJsFXC5QNvBoAI= X-Received: by 10.28.111.15 with SMTP id k15mr2538692wmc.139.1511398942565; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:02:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.213.131 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:02:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <58470.1511396312@kaos.jnpr.net> References: <5A15DDFA.8060302@Wilcox-Tech.com> <58470.1511396312@kaos.jnpr.net> From: Adrian Chadd Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:02:21 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: SSNCYQFip0SNXKMJpws-ZToAHw8 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: "Simon J. Gerraty" Cc: Warner Losh , "A. Wilcox" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:02:24 -0000 [snip] I'm confused by this. It's 2017. It's not required for building. It's not required for startup. It's not required for logging. It's not required for literally anything except a dumpster fire. Please just move it into ports. I accept that people feel this is some symptom of political correctness, but honestly - to me it's a symptom of us growing the fuck up. (Note - I was 16 when I started trying to use FreeBSD in 1996, so I literally have grown up with this.) We have a thousand other things to do. Please do push some other agendas. This is honestly a brain waster. -adrian From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 23 01:26:57 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4B5DFB42B; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:26:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from araujobsdport@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-x242.google.com (mail-lf0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4FD773CFA; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:26:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from araujobsdport@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-x242.google.com with SMTP id k66so20285730lfg.3; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:26:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=WDXSeDIBzYwZ+IBsD1hA564B92mCf59LTtDAAmJsfT8=; b=WWR5LB3NJcHGbPN3keoUX4NgWTh4OhKknFOTLWZs68uHrlS6ZH3JIFEsLn0ycm7xHm UK28LrrXPo7j6bHobxk3yFH/Tu6wfh6taQwZV9LWLq+X1xwFjla154ylpKxhEwW+xbT/ ZUmC1T96rJgxkOA2MTLrXnTTc6fuqe1+3//KnALntYUM3iWJGiVx8+YFmXECxqRkbGK2 xQmJbPjkFkJhzJhDjoMPyvqritk2Jb0Zc+lgSkQckogDtotTkvpm76183VJjfrIrl2rf joouhKZxmW8LhrEYI9J7JxIlh4IhgQr/qv62az2Cnc0lZmyOmgA201SrH1ZNzv2oMv+1 3HAw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WDXSeDIBzYwZ+IBsD1hA564B92mCf59LTtDAAmJsfT8=; b=bX/sv5baB/ZFHBuvMgNcLgzd0qqSL0d89CZHRMKFRqfWuFkEaXF/UhKzbPSpa03dfl wf4Cd/BGFpwdUHCtlpdlSpcOl2ArHbi3pgUcH4329ZMk2U5aWfbV6DS63G2oToDGDD/w J8P3IpHwswqTNNZoLeCe1+1HyOabTqNnohcTvCkwI/7+4YriBsPIdsyuW62YmXipjqS4 3mEKA8RDe7dwu7GSy5Jq8rT73yjPLiKzufCqVEc8lPOigEKs2yJsoqWLDQ3IKRTT9Tgm F6MeQvbBUfZ+bUId8SS52V5QyKs6SK3IPMB7wvxTWUWqyMHdttc27qBV4gnnnZH5n6Ng uAEw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7qD3u308h9ZTgcJ1MwCF2DK4dma0QuKV6CETbq4zBhNMBxqZMI amJa9ZzqnR1zEtMNGi+Wu3yvJQxxKgO6NpuUpTLMjQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZxD1d8nzSb7UsW1JHSMArOq7g/6I3QjBOTQAxVqLY7mshMvfycvSoYOrJ4NiMdr0zZ5GK5jyCeQglHvEcIRCY= X-Received: by 10.46.64.194 with SMTP id r63mr7791471lje.112.1511400413629; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:26:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.168.197 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:26:52 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: araujo@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <26410955-6888-42AE-BF95-678B46E4B49C@netgate.com> References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <20171122213411.GA32396@lonesome.com> <26410955-6888-42AE-BF95-678B46E4B49C@netgate.com> From: Marcelo Araujo Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 09:26:52 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: Jim Thompson Cc: Mark Linimon , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Benno Rice , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:26:57 -0000 2017-11-23 7:31 GMT+08:00 Jim Thompson : > Yes, but=E2=80=A6 which blue? > > > On Nov 22, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mark Linimon wrote: > > > > Blue. > +1 for Yellow! Everyday FreeBSD and its community manages to go to a new level. Impressive= ! Anyway, Yellow is the true color. > > > > mcl > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@ > freebsd.org" > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " > --=20 --=20 Marcelo Araujo (__)araujo@FreeBSD.org \\\'',)http://www.FreeBSD.org \/ \ ^ Power To Server. .\. /_) From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 23 02:23:35 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10C77DB89DF; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 02:23:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C160975F6A; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 02:23:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id vAN2NaMP099249; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 18:23:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: Cypht MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: , In-Reply-To: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> From: "Chris H" Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: "Benno Rice" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 18:23:42 -0800 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 02:23:35 -0000 On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 08:29:46 -0800 "Benno Rice" said > Hello, all! >=20 > With the removal of the fortune datfiles I think it=E2=80=99s time to hav= e a > discussion about fortune(6)=2E >=20 > fortune now defaults to using a fortune file that no longer exists: >=20 > $ fortune > No fortunes found in > /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune=2E >=20 > fortune is still used in the default =2Elogin/=2Eprofile to show entries from= the > still existing freebsd-tips: >=20 > $ grep fortune /usr/share/skel/* > /usr/share/skel/dot=2Elogin:if ( -x /usr/bin/fortune ) /usr/bin/fortune > freebsd-tips > /usr/share/skel/dot=2Eprofile:if [ -x /usr/bin/fortune ] ; then > /usr/bin/fortune freebsd-tips ; fi > $ fortune freebsd-tips > If you need a reminder to leave your terminal, type "leave +hhmm" where > "hhmm" represents in how many hours and minutes you need to leave=2E > =09=09-- Dru >=20 > fortune also still has flags for showing offensive entries and the like=2E >=20 > I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following two paths= we should > take: >=20 > 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage from th= e > default =2Elogin/=2Eprofile files=2E >=20 > 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and make > freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as > /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes=2E >=20 > Personally I lean towards the first option=2E HooWee! Here we go again=2E=2E=2E :) IMHO There is no reason to have removed the original fortune(6)=2E Yes=2E There *were* some (potentially) offensive fortunes=2E *But* you had to make a conscious decision to 1) turn that option on=2E 2) accepting the knowledge that they *may* be offensive=2E Why was there *ever* an issue?! I pick up a hammer, and place my hand on the kitchen counter=2E I then raise the hammer=2E Taking careful aim, to ensure that when I bring the hammer down swiftly=2E It will strike my hand=2E I've done so *knowing* the outcome=2E See any similarities? If it's to (hopefully) return, and given the proposed option(s)=2E I'd like to suggest that fortune be re-instated, using FreeBSD tips as the default=2E *But* with the option to re-instate the "traditional/classic" fort= une(s)=2E Doesn't that make for a win-win situation? :) Thanks for listening=2E :) --Chris >=20 > Thanks, > =09Benno=2E > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd=2Eorg mailing list > https://lists=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd=2Eorg= " From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 23 02:53:17 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C62ADBA57B; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 02:53:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BB5977367; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 02:53:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id vAN2rIxs005424; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 18:53:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: Cypht MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: , , In-Reply-To: <64AB4D76-B239-4E49-8D30-CF6D5D5D88A4@FreeBSD.org> From: "Chris H" Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: "Benno Rice" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 18:53:24 -0800 Message-Id: <5f4a62166aeb423a406a902bdc7078bc@udns.ultimatedns.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 02:53:17 -0000 On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:22:41 -0800 "Benno Rice" said > > On Nov 22, 2017, at 09:35, Steve Kargl > > wrote: > >=20 > > On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 08:29:46AM -0800, Benno Rice wrote: > >>=20 > >> With the removal of the fortune datfiles I think it=E2=80=99s time to > >> have a discussion about fortune(6)=2E > >=20 > > There should have been a discussion before the removal, but > > your method prevented an inevitable bikeshed=2E >=20 > You=E2=80=99re correct in that my intent was to avoid pointless discussio= n=2E We=E2=80=99ve > got bigger and more fun things to work on than coming up with an editoria= l > policy as to what is or isn=E2=80=99t appropriate in the fortune datfiles= =2E >=20 > >> fortune now defaults to using a fortune file that no longer exists: > >=20 > > When functionality is removed from src, a port is usually created=2E > > The datfiles should be available from ports/games/bsd-fortune=2E >=20 > Feel free to create it=2E If someone else wants to take editorial > responsibility for those files I=E2=80=99m all for it=2E FreeBSD should not= be taking > responsibility for them and I don=E2=80=99t wish to take that responsibil= ity > either=2E >=20 > >> $ fortune > >> No fortunes found in > > /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune=2E > >>=20 > >> fortune is still used in the default =2Elogin/=2Eprofile to show entries > >> from the still existing freebsd-tips: > >>=20 > >> $ grep fortune /usr/share/skel/* > >> /usr/share/skel/dot=2Elogin:if ( -x /usr/bin/fortune ) /usr/bin/fortune > > freebsd-tips > >> /usr/share/skel/dot=2Eprofile:if [ -x /usr/bin/fortune ] ; then > > /usr/bin/fortune freebsd-tips ; fi > >> $ fortune freebsd-tips > >> If you need a reminder to leave your terminal, type "leave +hhmm" wher= e > >> "hhmm" represents in how many hours and minutes you need to leave=2E > >> =09=09-- Dru > >>=20 > >> fortune also still has flags for showing offensive entries and the lik= e=2E > >>=20 > >=20 > > What is offensive to one person may not offend another person=2E What > > if someone objects to quotes by Dru (sorry Dru looks like you got=20 > > picked at random above)=2E The above looks like an attack on people > > with memory loss issues (age discrimination?)=2E Will you remove Dru's > > quotes? >=20 > Nice try=2E The freebsd-tips collection has some useful stuff which is why = I > put forward the idea of keeping it=2E Comments like this are exactly why I = got > rid of everything else=2E >=20 > >> I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following two pa= ths we > >> should take: > >>=20 > >> 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage from > >> the default =2Elogin/=2Eprofile files=2E > >=20 > > Create ports/games/bsd-fortune=2E >=20 > Be my guest=2E >=20 > >> 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and > >> make freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as > >> /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes=2E > >=20 > > 3) Restore the datfiles=2E Add a WITHOUT_FORTUNE knob and set it > > as the default=2E This allows an individual to tailor her system > > to meet her needs without having others force a politically=20 > > correct revisionist history on them=2E >=20 > Oh please=2E If you want the datfiles they=E2=80=99re there in history=2E If = you want > to be the one distributing them, go ahead=2E I=E2=80=99m fairly sure that t= he > availability of quotes regarding, or by, Hitler or anyone else has been > diminished by a rounding error or less by us no longer distributing the > datfiles=2E FreeBSD is an operating system, not an encyclopedia=2E >=20 > > This will be my one and only post in this bikeshed=2E Given the=20 > > sudden removal of the datfiles without discussion=2E This appears > > to be a perfunctory discussion prior to you pursuing your own > > choice=2E >=20 > Think of me whatever you want, I=E2=80=99m not fussed=2E I=E2=80=99m asking= with 100% > honest intentions what the community wants to do with this tool=2E If the > consensus is for retaining fortune for use with the freebsd-tips datfile = then > I=E2=80=99m absolutely cool with that=2E >=20 > I made a unilateral decision to remove a potential source of pointless > distraction=2E I could=E2=80=99ve unilaterally removed fortune entirely at = that point > but I didn=E2=80=99t as the freebsd-tips aspect appears to have actual ut= ility and > is something we can easily manage=2E The other files weren=E2=80=99t=2E If this is about removing things from FreeBSD that don't offer/provide "uti= lity"=2E Than you *should* have removed /usr/games entirely=2E Let's *actually* be "completely honest" about all this=2E I think I'm done here=2E Sorry=2E :( > If they=E2=80=99re > important to you, please feel free to check out either r325781 (if you wa= nt > the files) or r325095 (if you want the files with the Hitler quotes) and > maintain them yourself=2E >=20 > Cheers, > =09Benno=2E --Chris From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 23 07:44:51 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43DA4DE2A3D for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 07:44:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26DF980F47; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 07:44:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 53DFBFF4; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:44:48 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:44:47 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Adrian Chadd Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Message-ID: <20171123074447.GA1834@lonesome.com> References: <5A15DDFA.8060302@Wilcox-Tech.com> <58470.1511396312@kaos.jnpr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 07:44:51 -0000 On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 05:02:21PM -0800, Adrian Chadd wrote: > but honestly - to me it's a symptom of us growing the fuck up. This. So much this. Ten thousand times this. mcl From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 23 09:17:42 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03950DE5451; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 09:17:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x235.google.com (mail-wm0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90E886330D; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 09:17:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x235.google.com with SMTP id y80so15050704wmd.0; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:17:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4p3RH8Z3Wd/euk4ee+d+Qlt0zQ8uGj8C6IqgXe6IaTI=; b=V4iRehHXvVeVCr7+kwLxundq17E04nNcJbmk1Qh+TsgsmgHcl/Hibxrm4Hehl2dgY8 eg0LShNciI2G6sVR6/vi84bn2x2YouufuMxLxujsAATNOyMbunNk3IrVnfJ2DopBdBhS I5LEoAp1+7t5mz9kWHCzh2d9D7SrPMHkA7F5DOHVanRG5Jh0+qMyMYDC81WRVvqGESee a760VMOiRFZi2N8MV0JWVFqdm6RTp9MkJyTftpFkhcBlqFPumPeL9hCWekqGEAaiYLHT mczAE5TmOmNVj3uCL15XRm3KZVHKCtZEU0WznBOzKc1xK33pNnBQNarcZ+4JI0A9fzU7 pa1g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4p3RH8Z3Wd/euk4ee+d+Qlt0zQ8uGj8C6IqgXe6IaTI=; b=S+NDpznzWK+7EdNPmbCVnfvoBBqRommvnptZH0MGLi4QD5tzrSY9xnTp5dzXstyynJ WZ8w0l38s2EC1FJkKr0XzpaOiiqqfm4ELwANFMTHPdZhcZtm0d8jpJaVzHIQHXiEoS2O JCarFim7thtCswZGAW8XP3RONtmUHgKOsdtIbufUn75tjyNYFguJmm3k7Oecmd9Agipg tTVB3lmXxE5F2IXiPgc+mTUMptcC0XIt05I6suXH+W11OCp14sq8ZHBh98pZDOq2LTNO ugYKngEDPFohfU0FiTfnAXzWCK8LESgTP2rY68Mp3Vjcxn8HOlC7UFw3YHdO+y5jZBRU 19fw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5MKiEcZWaSMRYRRqUZKT2feIIY2sBRriT6hvjR7E6Vusj9qCWm 8QHV0mgp9D4OKuM9zAgh4qSl/gmzrbOxv0pO/vq9ng== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYl4N7NCjJL00k7IjoBAqUYI4hgA1bQYISi33o9nDv3bQCrVC+iIikwVTJkDS9i6zB8oLHp97jfpbRBy8a8a5s= X-Received: by 10.28.174.140 with SMTP id x134mr6220657wme.103.1511428659888; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:17:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.132.133 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:16:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <12703055.AoRsRdyBz0@overcee.wemm.org> References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <20171122173537.GA54395@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <64AB4D76-B239-4E49-8D30-CF6D5D5D88A4@FreeBSD.org> <12703055.AoRsRdyBz0@overcee.wemm.org> From: Johannes Lundberg Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 10:16:59 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: Peter Wemm Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, Benno Rice Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 09:17:42 -0000 > > However, I'd be in favor of something like having freebsd-tips be offered as a > default post-install package in the installer. I agree with this for freebsd-tips. It should be easier to install than installing a port and manually add entry to shell config files. > > -- > Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; KI6FJV > UTF-8: for when a ' or ... just won\342\200\231t do\342\200\246 From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 23 09:38:35 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FAEADE5D83; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 09:38:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from devin@shxd.cx) Received: from shxd.cx (mail.shxd.cx [64.201.244.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F37D663F28; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 09:38:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from devin@shxd.cx) Received: from [64.201.244.132] (port=60740 helo=[10.0.0.101]) by shxd.cx with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1eHlDM-0002rK-8y; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 06:42:24 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) From: Devin Teske X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13G36) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:38:32 -0800 Cc: Jim Thompson , Mark Linimon , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Benno Rice , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <20171122213411.GA32396@lonesome.com> <26410955-6888-42AE-BF95-678B46E4B49C@netgate.com> To: araujo@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 09:38:35 -0000 --=20 Devin > On Nov 22, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Marcelo Araujo wrot= e: >=20 > 2017-11-23 7:31 GMT+08:00 Jim Thompson : >=20 >> Yes, but=E2=80=A6 which blue? >>=20 >>> On Nov 22, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mark Linimon wrote: >>>=20 >>> Blue. >=20 > +1 for Yellow! >=20 > Everyday FreeBSD and its community manages to go to a new level. Impressiv= e! >=20 > Anyway, Yellow is the true color. Interior decorators will quickly tell you that yellow makes people nervous. Y= ellow is certainly not the color :)= From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 23 09:47:18 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 812BCDE6036; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 09:47:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from araujobsdport@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-x22d.google.com (mail-lf0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03514642F9; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 09:47:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from araujobsdport@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id f134so21302200lfg.8; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:47:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=PJd/HPD9C1KL8SpgY4ud0PRyvzOYAgresQZRMAQuKhE=; b=j+ENoRCwi/MdhwAzS1Wvo0H4WM8hcyEYBlVGLCDiJCAbT/O7aMRQg6dFzyG846903P TVb6QOWRfj2Hg0xdkEznKla10VUAYFHfQMCFu+/T7V/iQkjgcu8CB0AqqxWKmQQTC0F3 3Kk+cdbv0LZtdnJwTu2WA4XadhXjqlQoORwFh1ZVOehIxxFYJ9NEbijxW/lCij3KsF8/ NO4sIDi6so14HyNcLGgv6G57gJCiuMYYT4FLV9i9zWx0ASiOftTzi845ktAgAvWZ6uBe tRL/7KD+sR4FQU4zNw2Gk1PhQHfwI2SvTQljU+SzKAx67qFwUCr9T2haweVxSLERy7/U Z4BQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=PJd/HPD9C1KL8SpgY4ud0PRyvzOYAgresQZRMAQuKhE=; b=DQAyQlZ8dFZll844l/upfd92T0sAj7GPaouVnf2ZxB+jUePqHB21LeGcyDjmJHQG8p xtO3Ch8JQS63mC9FSqnd7vHA6zBTrsUYX3iIwJcfAuJFedDscKRF5N2H3Z2KZ0hHlklL LpWzg8ExQPY2vG9xQuNumUbMrhbZUSxpjpBv3fZeSegj0uG1UCJUNT0ke+Hk41OeV4Xx 9GB4XevT8ogRAHO1pv+ddF1gDRFkvcomkGGgd+OxuAiaBu983WKdD4a3Ogg1diXITIsq TjCPC2qrCOz0GmP1qBrxHl8f1uH88uYhWISs1FEQluoC6p5ASCM/TeuJfnjDrCtHBBRC lvKw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5PQd8i22OrJvNhUN/TaT2BNgZ0ErxcDIzzIZJBs+leqVebvsxA ZhvgA+kTbA2pB1ooCSnskWUCuEzdltOBu349rYU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZsZNsgp7gsaejF9nnMIlnyhkB+JXFMY7QluOZ/jBws7ors4iG2R6FcBdJAzLYsPjV7WGK36iU+09t+nH/8rrw= X-Received: by 10.46.64.194 with SMTP id r63mr8186198lje.112.1511430435470; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:47:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.168.197 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 01:47:14 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: araujo@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <20171122213411.GA32396@lonesome.com> <26410955-6888-42AE-BF95-678B46E4B49C@netgate.com> From: Marcelo Araujo Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 17:47:14 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: Devin Teske Cc: Jim Thompson , Mark Linimon , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Benno Rice , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 09:47:18 -0000 2017-11-23 17:38 GMT+08:00 Devin Teske : > > > > -- > Devin > > On Nov 22, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Marcelo Araujo > wrote: > > > > 2017-11-23 7:31 GMT+08:00 Jim Thompson : > > > >> Yes, but=E2=80=A6 which blue? > >> > >>> On Nov 22, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mark Linimon > wrote: > >>> > >>> Blue. > > > > +1 for Yellow! > > > > Everyday FreeBSD and its community manages to go to a new level. > Impressive! > > > > Anyway, Yellow is the true color. > > Interior decorators will quickly tell you that yellow makes people > nervous. Yellow is certainly not the color :) > Ouch, you are definitely right, +1 for blue. :) --=20 --=20 Marcelo Araujo (__)araujo@FreeBSD.org \\\'',)http://www.FreeBSD.org \/ \ ^ Power To Server. .\. /_) From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Nov 23 12:23:09 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52778DEB6AB for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 12:23:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan@digitaldaemon.com) Received: from digitaldaemon.com (digitaldaemon.com [162.217.114.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E9AB9692F8 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 12:23:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan@digitaldaemon.com) Received: (qmail 51161 invoked by uid 89); 23 Nov 2017 12:16:25 -0000 Received: from c-24-0-179-87.hsd1.nj.comcast.net (HELO iMac.local) (jan@digitaldaemon.com@24.0.179.87) by digitaldaemon.com with SMTP; 23 Nov 2017 12:16:25 -0000 Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <5f4a62166aeb423a406a902bdc7078bc@udns.ultimatedns.net> From: Jan Knepper Message-ID: <3a3393b4-a092-e619-e28d-ce099330bf42@digitaldaemon.com> Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 07:16:25 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5f4a62166aeb423a406a902bdc7078bc@udns.ultimatedns.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 12:23:09 -0000 On 11/22/2017 21:53, Chris H wrote: > If this is about removing things from FreeBSD that don't offer/provide > "utility". > Than you *should* have removed /usr/games entirely. Let's *actually* be > "completely honest" about all this. > > I think I'm done here. Sorry. :( Having used, hosted, patched FreeBSD for ~25 years, I personally like 'fortune', or something alike with 'hits' about the system, shell, etc... However, I doubt there is a 'system requirement' to have it as part of base. I have *never* used 'games', ever that I recall... :-) I am personally less (really not) concerned about 'offensive' entries. People throughout history have said and written things that will offend someone somewhere. In the USA I would think this effectively falls under the First Amendment. We can say what we want, when we want, as long as we understand that we are (still!) *responsible* for what we say. As long as such potential entries are properly accredited to the origin, even if the entry is potentially offensive we could learn something from it. (IMHO it is not wrong or bad to be reminded of evil done in history). Just my 2 cents. Not an invite to discussion... Jan From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Nov 24 16:48:07 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5F9EDEBAB9; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 16:48:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from land.berklix.org (land.berklix.org [144.76.10.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "land.berklix.org", Issuer "land.berklix.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44F3C7B5BB; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 16:48:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (pD9FA9D37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.250.157.55]) (authenticated bits=0) by land.berklix.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAOGksIp088290 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 24 Nov 2017 16:46:58 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id vAOGlskH067596; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 17:47:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id vAOGlgxu071487; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 17:47:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201711241647.vAOGlgxu071487@fire.js.berklix.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.eu BSD Unix Linux Consultants, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.eu/free/ X-From: http://www.berklix.eu/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message "Thu, 23 Nov 2017 22:26:15 +0700." <20171123152615.GA35498@rdtc.ru> Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 17:47:42 +0100 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 16:48:07 -0000 fortune(6) is listed in ring bound 4.3BSD System Index. Butchering on personal whim without prior agreement seems abuse. BSD should be [temporarily] reverted & the commit bit suspended, pending commiters' peer review of an un-authorised deletion. Then decide what what to do with fortune. Cheers, Julian -- Julian H. Stacey, Computer Consultant, BSD Linux Unix Systems Engineer, Munich Reply below, Prefix '> '. Plain text, No .doc, base64, HTML, quoted-printable. http://berklix.eu/brexit/ UK stole 3,500,000 votes; 700,000 from Brits in EU. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Nov 24 19:19:45 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154D6DEEF95; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 19:19:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr0-x22d.google.com (mail-wr0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A93DA80EE4; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 19:19:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id a63so21150947wrc.12; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 11:19:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=OMyhfd3t9QGsHj1qCjV796KMcwpFDrVW11O2BdUuHT4=; b=oF7YDHqC9YmpupIHhulSGx/d1JKfAzhbNJygpwiafinvDEBK28qSKbsAdLNy2CIVxx 7qXztdatcjY7HOCvf7coEfY7b9lgQhhnpEH8LLTjhNgDK7s95YRWa95EZs8T5pFTMG7X f/DZdHnY0jAYX9ySbkDQdrIHmA9IGNTmIGnsKWSmqN+wZROJIg8z/vPcVDxOC/gN5bhe vz+wCm/V/j/wuXuMPFe6SHk0Vfdu+ZaCkG/I+xYz4A47cG1BbYtJPaCbdKVEoxT7dR5Y oINJH3pjP73D+voKscgP96FnLZ/Hu9S5rgrOD150PLbGBrp5P/12jLUJ9NSYqr1ikq6X m5AA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=OMyhfd3t9QGsHj1qCjV796KMcwpFDrVW11O2BdUuHT4=; b=hIyxAXM2MvOriIJN5wgGHbKXXXmL9MAWIyLa9sLw0JiBdHCl4lAnm8xRukKmwGicS6 ouB6vgyi4hMUKL3T0o177ctMNI6iTcEEj8C6fEUupUwAgNUnb5OtR663n61yvj7eiJg7 9rt0GmL8HGf0NFgivm09ZV3dm2FEAPndmSJ5pU/Ja4X4dVj6V5l+JBypUbkYoscX4aZK ozplFrDshB0PKiOOXLnKtEDYcNdWrEfjjMxhrI7WJ5ghK+Ihp5uXY/WEFikofYRBhOBm jtU+kDlJr/12cXUO8YMiXvS2WXlAEG0hY5Lb9skQtaVAqbFdScGtvPH3SV5vAJ3yLjFG ttuA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4iOwl+14ZmrecZ2YBfejnMqhPnTOVChfBFSKbrRUEIBk86ShIj ttrc+WWP57VsJsUcBmpTKNtMPinsMHzmnDOnyckACg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZuPCDEvsexzH9Oku+2NiTNo1q8C2DRM46t+AaATI1qfi1iydCh9xBMHPJ1L7QVl6X7joYNj5U9NZa4HP2rDGo= X-Received: by 10.223.128.196 with SMTP id 62mr2747617wrl.266.1511551182403; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 11:19:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.213.131 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 11:19:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201711241647.vAOGlgxu071487@fire.js.berklix.net> References: <20171123152615.GA35498@rdtc.ru> <201711241647.vAOGlgxu071487@fire.js.berklix.net> From: Adrian Chadd Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 11:19:40 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 19:19:45 -0000 hi, Pardon me, but it's 2017 and the 4.3BSD system index isn't an immutable bible. As a general push to packaging things in general, turning fortune into a package seems like some low hanging fruit. -adrian On 24 November 2017 at 08:47, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > fortune(6) is listed in ring bound 4.3BSD System Index. > Butchering on personal whim without prior agreement seems abuse. > BSD should be [temporarily] reverted & the commit bit suspended, > pending commiters' peer review of an un-authorised deletion. > Then decide what what to do with fortune. > > Cheers, > Julian > -- > Julian H. Stacey, Computer Consultant, BSD Linux Unix Systems Engineer, Munich > Reply below, Prefix '> '. Plain text, No .doc, base64, HTML, quoted-printable. > http://berklix.eu/brexit/ UK stole 3,500,000 votes; 700,000 from Brits in EU. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Nov 24 19:19:48 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4477EDEEFBA; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 19:19:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F51B80EE5; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 19:19:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([96.50.22.10]) by shaw.ca with SMTP id IJHCetO6ezNiNIJHDeDRWC; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 12:04:41 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=I+4VfJog c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:117 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:17 a=sC3jslCIGhcA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=nRw0MP0jAAAA:8 a=lFOwTp68Te5M9NCx4GIA:9 a=ft-257npRRAj0M0O:21 a=6i5dXDlVVCQrcAwr:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=-FEs8UIgK8oA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=tjHp5ZDjkLr4e_90VGQA:9 a=KCyRVsZS2V32ZiCm:21 a=DCNDS8XNJBdHQqql:21 a=uGvhrstjUjLn1TWB:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=TqOS20DUQF7LHOIXzZmQ:22 Received: from [10.168.3.117] (S0106d4ca6d8943b0.gv.shawcable.net [24.68.134.59]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 543CE252; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 11:04:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Cy Schubert Subject: RE: The future of fortune(6) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 11:04:41 -0800 To: "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Message-Id: <20171124190437.543CE252@spqr.komquats.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfFnjsV4PLL6VbDGjMU4GdTeyRMANobC+CAF0t9B1Qiy+MNEJyhJdNvFti3bwUw9ex6YbiuDS0kXhoFXdMdwAGg1ecsic5rDuj5SSAGC3DgDpFD5R7hS0 DC+pDwYfH/LNS/r8yR0N+T20QpSfgb42xtRC5R3k8Eru3xlUsbCCMylvnota4Gi3QopzgOFNIVIc2vvzqrbmF/S7nYzv0tT5C6Jh45Oq9mZsk6ch6HNcAS9O FIHwDHLuF7E/QpGjYBNQ5Q== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 19:19:48 -0000 Yes, the BSD manuals. I should check my 4.4BSD vol 6 when I get home tonigh= t. I recall playing the pre-BSD adventur game on the IBM mainframe (IIRC MVT, = prior to MVS). adventur was written in Fortran at the time. The BSD version= was in C. --- Sent using a tiny phone keyboard. Apologies for any typos and autocorrect. This old phone only supports top post. Apologies. Cy Schubert or --- -----Original Message----- From: Julian H. Stacey Sent: 24/11/2017 08:48 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) fortune(6) is listed in ring bound 4.3BSD System Index. Butchering on personal whim without prior agreement seems abuse. BSD should be [temporarily] reverted & the commit bit suspended, pending commiters' peer review of an un-authorised deletion. Then decide what what to do with fortune. Cheers, Julian --=20 Julian H. Stacey, Computer Consultant, BSD Linux Unix Systems Engineer, Mun= ich Reply below, Prefix '> '. Plain text, No .doc, base64, HTML, quoted-printa= ble. http://berklix.eu/brexit/ UK stole 3,500,000 votes; 700,000 from Brits in = EU. _______________________________________________ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Nov 24 20:40:55 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE1DBDF0E93 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 20:40:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from AWilcox@Wilcox-Tech.com) Received: from mail.wilcox-tech.com (mail.wilcox-tech.com [45.32.83.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.wilcox-tech.com", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5A6A63BFF for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 20:40:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from AWilcox@Wilcox-Tech.com) Received: (qmail 12836 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2017 20:40:46 -0000 Received: from 107-131-85-28.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net (HELO ?192.168.1.78?) (awilcox@wilcox-tech.com@107.131.85.28) by mail.wilcox-tech.com with ESMTPA; 24 Nov 2017 20:40:46 -0000 Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <20171123152615.GA35498@rdtc.ru> <201711241647.vAOGlgxu071487@fire.js.berklix.net> From: "A. Wilcox" Message-ID: <5A1883CA.3090409@Wilcox-Tech.com> Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 14:40:42 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LgSTeUltd9sTehmaXbt0AdvgCgAsdFRMt" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 20:40:55 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --LgSTeUltd9sTehmaXbt0AdvgCgAsdFRMt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 24/11/17 13:19, Adrian Chadd wrote: > hi, >=20 > Pardon me, but it's 2017 and the 4.3BSD system index isn't an immutable= bible. >=20 > As a general push to packaging things in general, turning fortune into > a package seems like some low hanging fruit. >=20 >=20 >=20 > -adrian This, so much this. Why is it so controversial to put the thing in a package? Why do people want so badly to just remove it? Why wasn't it discussed about putting it in a package? It seems like if, instead of *deleting* things, they were just moved to packages, probably nobody would have complained. Or at least, it would have been fewer people (I wouldn't have), and the complaints would have been lighter ("you could have told me" vs "how dare you"). Live and learn. And please, package it. ALL of it. --arw --=20 A. Wilcox (awilfox) Open-source programmer (C, C++, Python) https://code.foxkit.us/u/awilfox/ --LgSTeUltd9sTehmaXbt0AdvgCgAsdFRMt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJaGIPKAAoJEMspy1GSK50UOBIP/RdHJRcQF/hJ5/4oIlwgmgoa zgwXzeqe7RTuBQQy23G0go6CDQAe1iV3rkSI4ZkPKYwzzKH1i2+YZmJeHj/u+IcU /utgpOBO+hVTpV4y9MubN77SjllLQNwN0x2XWdj8/70hATqh331Nqmpu+OeCGoTU h6ImrITQ615YH3LzjuPOFgBWq+LD/mbWdCGm03icW8iNmbZSo74zSID0jkINgK5D zQeT3vVgYXQq29QS6e7/F6KFFHHx6pGzGBkC7vGSa44ho7cJdNK4fOumvPQ2bomA 3HFJ7jKXPNsnctLCjRApebhdTXV8WuXxebBZt7XPCLg3SY6gsxwHy6Y5+KcnHU3T W5vxC+Q+mm8Tk//dCG4kbR8MybbXfRIueSXNHY/gFm1/X8fAcWs0ehbK86iA3BWo fNBijS396zzojBTgiaMiAbyh+Dfkne9c9ozVfGUcrq/GN1snirwmvVaMWKylrqYw kN5VPhid7dxecEwnPVyaP/2x6p28NYgQTn4FOpDS7WjXIAA+pXi4ki7tSNIEHubj iI/Sd5fOIpjjIrZn3vmFTqv8K89g5EoIODZXwKcNKuC28FAb+6zsXP89YY8g9ZmL 3lXorkVXoIPm6qbhH7TSKO1q1jUqA+ZY6ZaFbQEho+IujkDQU2COxmpZ3mgfRVwN 03KD/ghzefBnY3vWHA+6 =LW/Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LgSTeUltd9sTehmaXbt0AdvgCgAsdFRMt-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Nov 24 20:49:56 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0955DF10FD for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 20:49:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from db@db.net) Received: from diana.db.net (unknown [IPv6:2620:64:0:1:223:7dff:fea2:c8f2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97E5B63F75 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 20:49:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from db@db.net) Received: from night.db.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by diana.db.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D642AA335; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 13:43:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by night.db.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2446E39813; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 15:49:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 15:49:52 -0500 From: Diane Bruce To: "A. Wilcox" Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Message-ID: <20171124204952.GA1497@night.db.net> References: <20171123152615.GA35498@rdtc.ru> <201711241647.vAOGlgxu071487@fire.js.berklix.net> <5A1883CA.3090409@Wilcox-Tech.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5A1883CA.3090409@Wilcox-Tech.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 20:49:56 -0000 On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 02:40:42PM -0600, A. Wilcox wrote: > On 24/11/17 13:19, Adrian Chadd wrote: > > hi, > > > > Pardon me, but it's 2017 and the 4.3BSD system index isn't an immutable bible. > > > > As a general push to packaging things in general, turning fortune into > > a package seems like some low hanging fruit. > > > > > > > > -adrian > > > This, so much this. Why is it so controversial to put the thing in a > package? Why do people want so badly to just remove it? Why wasn't it > discussed about putting it in a package? Let's bring back badblocks too while we are at it. > > It seems like if, instead of *deleting* things, they were just moved to > packages, probably nobody would have complained. Or at least, it would > have been fewer people (I wouldn't have), and the complaints would have > been lighter ("you could have told me" vs "how dare you"). > > Live and learn. And please, package it. ALL of it. Yes. Please. > > --arw > > -- > A. Wilcox (awilfox) > Open-source programmer (C, C++, Python) > https://code.foxkit.us/u/awilfox/ > Diane Bruce -- - db@FreeBSD.org db@db.net http://www.db.net/~db From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Nov 24 21:04:14 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50E6FDF18A1 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 21:04:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D4A2648A5 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 21:04:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id vAOL44dr097107; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 13:04:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id vAOL445P097106; Fri, 24 Nov 2017 13:04:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201711242104.vAOL445P097106@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) In-Reply-To: <20171124204952.GA1497@night.db.net> To: Diane Bruce Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 13:04:04 -0800 (PST) CC: "A. Wilcox" , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 21:04:14 -0000 > On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 02:40:42PM -0600, A. Wilcox wrote: > > On 24/11/17 13:19, Adrian Chadd wrote: > > > hi, > > > > > > Pardon me, but it's 2017 and the 4.3BSD system index isn't an immutable bible. > > > > > > As a general push to packaging things in general, turning fortune into > > > a package seems like some low hanging fruit. > > > > > > > > > > > > -adrian > > > > > > This, so much this. Why is it so controversial to put the thing in a > > package? Why do people want so badly to just remove it? Why wasn't it > > discussed about putting it in a package? > > Let's bring back badblocks too while we are at it. Its badsect(8) and it has valid uses, even today. You can get ufs/ffs drives that develope a bad block, you can fix the immediate issue with badsect and a fsck, you loose a file. I have a 500G drive that has a spot that gets an error, smart flags it as a pending relocation sector, when I back up and wipe the drive to clear the pending hoping it well relocate it the drive decides hey, I wrote and now read back that data so it is not bad, so puts it back in the good sectors. Repeat a few times and you quickly learn to use badsect t just map that sector out and let UFS never use it again. Now I have this ufs drive... if I stick it on a 12.x current system it is probalby not gona like my badsect(8) that I have done and I am unclear as what may happen. And once again no one followed commiters guide 17.4 even though I pointed out we have a deprication procedure... > > > > > It seems like if, instead of *deleting* things, they were just moved to > > packages, probably nobody would have complained. Or at least, it would > > have been fewer people (I wouldn't have), and the complaints would have > > been lighter ("you could have told me" vs "how dare you"). > > > > Live and learn. And please, package it. ALL of it. > > Yes. Please. > > > > > --arw > > > > -- > > A. Wilcox (awilfox) > > Open-source programmer (C, C++, Python) > > https://code.foxkit.us/u/awilfox/ > > > > > Diane Bruce > -- > - db@FreeBSD.org db@db.net http://www.db.net/~db > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 11:54:59 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DFD2DDFA48; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 11:54:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from land.berklix.org (land.berklix.org [144.76.10.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "land.berklix.org", Issuer "land.berklix.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB48E7EAC5; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 11:54:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (pD9FA9D37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.250.157.55]) (authenticated bits=0) by land.berklix.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAPBrp02029447 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Nov 2017 11:53:55 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id vAPBspvl072671; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 12:54:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id vAPBsXMX085057; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 12:54:45 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201711251154.vAPBsXMX085057@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Adrian Chadd cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.eu BSD Unix Linux Consultants, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.eu/free/ X-From: http://www.berklix.eu/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message "Fri, 24 Nov 2017 11:19:40 -0800." Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 12:54:33 +0100 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 11:54:59 -0000 Adrian Chadd wrote: (top posting corrected here) > On 24 November 2017 at 08:47, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > fortune(6) is listed in ring bound 4.3BSD System Index. > > Butchering on personal whim without prior agreement seems abuse. > > BSD should be [temporarily] reverted & the commit bit suspended, > > pending commiters' peer review of an un-authorised deletion. > > Then decide what what to do with fortune. > hi, > Pardon me, but it's 2017 and the 4.3BSD system index isn't an immutable bible. > As a general push to packaging things in general, turning fortune into > a package seems like some low hanging fruit. > -adrian I avoided expressing opinion on where fortune might best be, to avoid distraction from the point: Commit bits are a privilege. Contentious commits forced through before discussion, should by policy be automaticaly reverted, & committers bit suspended, pending committer peer review - Not with reference to the desirability or otherwise of a commit, but for imposing on FreeBSD without prior discussion. Commiter conduct reviews should be seperate from discussion of desirability of a contentious commit. Cheers, Julian -- Julian H. Stacey, Computer Consultant, BSD Linux Unix Systems Engineer, Munich Reply below, Prefix '> '. Plain text, No .doc, base64, HTML, quoted-printable. http://berklix.eu/brexit/ UK stole 3,500,000 votes; 700,000 from Brits in EU. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 12:02:04 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E21CDE266C for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 12:02:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brde@optusnet.com.au) Received: from mail109.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail109.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.80]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CA967F1DE for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 12:02:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brde@optusnet.com.au) Received: from [192.168.0.102] (c110-21-101-228.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au [110.21.101.228]) by mail109.syd.optusnet.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 423CFD612C0; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:01:59 +1100 (AEDT) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:01:59 +1100 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-X-Sender: bde@besplex.bde.org To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: Diane Bruce , "A. Wilcox" , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) In-Reply-To: <201711242104.vAOL445P097106@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Message-ID: <20171125221422.N1628@besplex.bde.org> References: <201711242104.vAOL445P097106@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Optus-CM-Score: 0 X-Optus-CM-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=bc8baKHB c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=PalzARQSbocsUSjMRkwAPg==:117 a=PalzARQSbocsUSjMRkwAPg==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=YRM0eBZ8Sxl_6dszFo4A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 12:02:04 -0000 On Fri, 24 Nov 2017, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 02:40:42PM -0600, A. Wilcox wrote: >>> On 24/11/17 13:19, Adrian Chadd wrote: >>>> Pardon me, but it's 2017 and the 4.3BSD system index isn't an immutable bible. >>> This, so much this. Why is it so controversial to put the thing in a >>> package? Why do people want so badly to just remove it? Why wasn't it >>> discussed about putting it in a package? >> >> Let's bring back badblocks too while we are at it. > > Its badsect(8) and it has valid uses, even today. You can get ufs/ffs > drives that develope a bad block, you can fix the immediate issue with > badsect and a fsck, you loose a file. bad144(8) was removed earlier. You can also have old media with bad blocks, and might have used bad144 or badsect to hide them. The bad144 hiding method is fragile and no longer works. Sectors hidden using badsect remain hidden as well as before. They still cause long timeouts for copying the media, which is the easiest way to preserve it all. I don't know of any good way of preventing tree walks from accessing badsect files. badsect files have mode 0, but this doesn't prevent root reading them. ACLs can prevent root reading files but are not always available. File flags could prevent root reading files, but this is not implemented. > I have a 500G drive that has a spot that gets an error, smart flags > it as a pending relocation sector, when I back up and wipe the drive > to clear the pending hoping it well relocate it the drive decides hey, > I wrote and now read back that data so it is not bad, so puts it back > in the good sectors. Repeat a few times and you quickly learn to use > badsect t just map that sector out and let UFS never use it again. You can do the same manually using something like: - write zeros to other files until the disk is full - delete large files with bad blocks - wite zeros to small files until the disk is full - find the files with bad blocks in them (this is easier than using badsect, by observing the write errors for the previous step. Other steps are also easy, but take too long) - move the files with bad sectors in them out of the way and chmod them to 0 and make them immutable and set other flags for them (badsect never caught up with file flags). badsect just allows this to be done more easily. A script doing the above would be hard to make robust, and still take too long. Perhaps it can also be done using fsdb. The script to do that would be even harder to make robust. fsdb can probably do this even better by making the directory entries or inodes for the files inaccessble (I don't know how to do this without fsck wanting to fix it). > Now I have this ufs drive... if I stick it on a 12.x current system > it is probalby not gona like my badsect(8) that I have done and I > am unclear as what may happen. No, badsect files are normal after you run fsck on them. badsect+fsck is just a hack for getting bad sectors allocated where you want them. Bruce From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 16:28:23 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ADAADEA477; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 16:28:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70FBD6525E; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 16:28:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 00412D37; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 10:28:15 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 10:28:14 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: Adrian Chadd , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Message-ID: <20171125162814.GA9954@lonesome.com> References: <201711251154.vAPBsXMX085057@fire.js.berklix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201711251154.vAPBsXMX085057@fire.js.berklix.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 16:28:23 -0000 On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 12:54:33PM +0100, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Contentious commits forced through before discussion, should by > policy be automatically reverted, committers bit suspended That is not FreeBSD's policy. AFAIK that has never been FreeBSD's policy. If it ever does become FreeBSD's policy, I will be (one of many, I assume) out the door. Look: AFAICT the only project that is ever going to suit you is one you run yourself. Then you can make all the rules. There are other BSDs that run on that model. I remain here, despite frustrations, *because* FreeBSD doesn't run on that model. Does it run well? No: there are human beings involved, so QED. But it runs better than what it would run by your demands. tl:dr; if you want to work with people (on this project or any other), work with them, don't attack. It's self-defeating. mcl From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 18:22:59 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3368DECC94 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 18:22:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound1a.eu.mailhop.org (outbound1a.eu.mailhop.org [52.58.109.202]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7EF4F69185 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 18:22:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) X-MHO-User: a6a95701-d20d-11e7-b805-f37e907b5733 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 73.78.92.27 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [73.78.92.27]) by outbound1.eu.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id a6a95701-d20d-11e7-b805-f37e907b5733; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 18:22:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vAPIMoA5001179; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 11:22:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <1511634170.23588.4.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) From: Ian Lepore To: "Julian H. Stacey" , Adrian Chadd Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 11:22:50 -0700 In-Reply-To: <201711251154.vAPBsXMX085057@fire.js.berklix.net> References: <201711251154.vAPBsXMX085057@fire.js.berklix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.18.5.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 18:23:00 -0000 On Sat, 2017-11-25 at 12:54 +0100, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Adrian Chadd wrote: > (top posting corrected here) > > > > > On 24 November 2017 at 08:47, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > > > > fortune(6) is listed in ring bound 4.3BSD System Index. > > > Butchering on personal whim without prior agreement seems abuse. > > > BSD should be [temporarily] reverted & the commit bit suspended, > > > pending commiters' peer review of an un-authorised deletion. > > > Then decide what what to do with fortune. > > > > hi, > > Pardon me, but it's 2017 and the 4.3BSD system index isn't an immutable bible. > > As a general push to packaging things in general, turning fortune into > > a package seems like some low hanging fruit. > > -adrian > I avoided expressing opinion on where fortune might best be, to > avoid distraction from the point: > > Commit bits are a privilege.  Contentious commits forced through > before discussion, should by policy be automaticaly reverted, > & committers bit suspended, pending committer peer review - Not with > reference to the desirability or otherwise of a commit, but for > imposing on FreeBSD without prior discussion. > > Commiter conduct reviews should be seperate from  > discussion of desirability of a contentious commit. > I'm not sure why you think you're qualified to comment on what policy is, but let me assure you that virtually everything you've ever said on the subject on the freebsd mailing lists is wrong.  People reading this thread should not make the mistake of thinking that you are associated with the project in any way or speak authoratatively about the project and its policies. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 19:33:13 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D7FEDEE282; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 19:33:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 236706B67B; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 19:33:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([96.50.22.10]) by shaw.ca with SMTP id IfxjeNTgVRDG7IfxkeK48I; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 12:18:05 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=b+PC2pOx c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:117 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=sC3jslCIGhcA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=NRF7K_vUAAAA:8 a=nRw0MP0jAAAA:8 a=Qv2LTWs3tmBQeHP3dDIA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=-FEs8UIgK8oA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=-TUkS2ffhQBfG7ohTqvO:22 a=TqOS20DUQF7LHOIXzZmQ:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CB59538; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 11:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vAPJI2nJ072757; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 11:18:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id vAPJI2IB072754; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 11:18:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201711251918.vAPJI2IB072754@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Adrian Chadd cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) In-Reply-To: Message from Adrian Chadd of "Fri, 24 Nov 2017 11:19:40 -0800." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 11:18:02 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfHXNOmwV2uKNGkrKEO5JDkHoFR2mzLEmkornFSZ7DsVfJlcPCgoQQwchdqapnM9p0HA9T/gVGqV7X/T8PPpKV1ncDTllsMH3fO7KlIHasNULuJbppXdB FClvpdROAPwWUXMxRfoyAlXdqfOfguEWtUlj86LG1sX3bo/HIeKz9pezkKDTFlGXRbHjCTHhr25SeOqRNZEx1sJs8Xl42gx04BRc/6Y854zXI+SoVo2nTb3N c24tvNPK3Vw5XzH90wJi2iDB0z+hmlYxFtAkPsgj1JtfnStsC+Ae+zUm85WfP183 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 19:33:13 -0000 In message , Adrian Chadd writes: > hi, > > Pardon me, but it's 2017 and the 4.3BSD system index isn't an immutable bible > . > > As a general push to packaging things in general, turning fortune into > a package seems like some low hanging fruit. > > > > -adrian I see no reason why fortune(6) cannot be a port. Much of /usr/games (IIRC that's where it was) has been gutted anyway and not only that but other more functional parts of 4.4BSD have been culled and are simply gone. I think the way forward is: 1. Make fortune a port. 2. Whatever was in games and is in ports could be installed through a bsd-games meta-port. People should realize that ports are just as valid as base. Not everything should be in base. This will become truer once base is fully distributed as packages. A monolithic base is so 1960s. Even the IBM mainframe I worked on in the 1970s used packages (IBM called them FMIDs). Let's get on with the 1970s and move it to ports/packages. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. > > > On 24 November 2017 at 08:47, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > fortune(6) is listed in ring bound 4.3BSD System Index. > > Butchering on personal whim without prior agreement seems abuse. > > BSD should be [temporarily] reverted & the commit bit suspended, > > pending commiters' peer review of an un-authorised deletion. > > Then decide what what to do with fortune. > > > > Cheers, > > Julian > > -- > > Julian H. Stacey, Computer Consultant, BSD Linux Unix Systems Engineer, Mun > ich > > Reply below, Prefix '> '. Plain text, No .doc, base64, HTML, quoted-printa > ble. > > http://berklix.eu/brexit/ UK stole 3,500,000 votes; 700,000 from Brits in > EU. > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 21:34:57 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 705EFDF0989; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 21:34:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 535026F569; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 21:34:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5436CCE4; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:34:55 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:34:54 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Cy Schubert Cc: Adrian Chadd , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Message-ID: <20171125213454.GA10490@lonesome.com> References: <201711251918.vAPJI2IB072754@slippy.cwsent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201711251918.vAPJI2IB072754@slippy.cwsent.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 21:34:57 -0000 On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 11:18:02AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: > 1. Make fortune a port. A port for the "classical" fortunes file has already been added. mcl From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 22:06:43 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7481FDF1897; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 22:06:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 313A870D96; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 22:06:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([96.50.22.10]) by shaw.ca with SMTP id Iiase6OEsss4TIiateHnuQ; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:06:41 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=JuuBlIwC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:117 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=sC3jslCIGhcA:10 a=-FGs326eAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=CAy2Vs5pzIfcedsNyIUA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=7Nw9HX5Nqxt2AnyyOhBr:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28F8B65E; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 14:06:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vAPM6b6H060211; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 14:06:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id vAPM6a0A060208; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 14:06:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201711252206.vAPM6a0A060208@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Mark Linimon cc: Cy Schubert , Adrian Chadd , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) In-Reply-To: Message from Mark Linimon of "Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:34:54 -0600." <20171125213454.GA10490@lonesome.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 14:06:36 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfAelVBnp6OjMhx+rSWoBBdftpEuh9uoTh2L3BCn73CYagmF8lI/jqcJN4yia1xytZXWsuYiQX0N9FVCm763U1VrD7lP+GDgJlSrUzy5sxGhQD92Qw4hs +lHyZylR09SS127wad+18cgpz6fuIESySEQ7UFqAuwxyEtTtkFWg2Pu0vVPN8NZwkGvNwcCybq3XnNf9KVlFwKyI4vWOVkiiLXiRJAbPxVTL7LeenJMjkasl smbfu7yBRuKMD4I3fBGrBqAbYu6zkeUI8mV9fuVdd+paw9chlQu9WyFQV5yAvwLBwPZQt67vIsH+NB/eNCiE0Q== X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 22:06:43 -0000 In message <20171125213454.GA10490@lonesome.com>, Mark Linimon writes: > On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 11:18:02AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: > > 1. Make fortune a port. > > A port for the "classical" fortunes file has already been added. Indeed, in bsdgames. Like really?! What's all the fuss about? Just nuke from base then. I have half a mind to just blow it away now and be done with all this nonsense. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 22:16:59 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF12DF1F2A; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 22:16:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B98C71B04; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 22:16:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([96.50.22.10]) by shaw.ca with SMTP id Iikle6QZTss4TIikmeHpA5; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:16:52 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=JuuBlIwC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:117 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=sC3jslCIGhcA:10 a=VxmjJ2MpAAAA:8 a=-FGs326eAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=ifCAk0EqbGYcMWA5R-8A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=CtDkzlP1Ic4A:10 a=7gXAzLPJhVmCkEl4_tsf:22 a=7Nw9HX5Nqxt2AnyyOhBr:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DAAE6696; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 14:16:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vAPMGoTX075133; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 14:16:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id vAPMGoM7075129; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 14:16:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201711252216.vAPMGoM7075129@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Cy Schubert cc: Mark Linimon , Cy Schubert , Adrian Chadd , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) In-Reply-To: Message from Cy Schubert of "Sat, 25 Nov 2017 14:06:36 -0800." <201711252206.vAPM6a0A060208@slippy.cwsent.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 14:16:49 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfHy6WKXTZbBqPmT8B2xqPhhhSXFk0JSQn3RqjwWtxI0VljMqR3UbfNPBXe858y42HCi4UgBnodV6ivqLVyRL3J9Wu4h51G5SzsqW8skFpXvpwqJXDU6j XZC5t+Z8Pv9hSARTda/AUvjDzodSAkxOuVYwgS9ztnUE17LAyvWluVQLFIdjv028xp167wYNnMktfZeJATSEVtSMC5rYBzojYjtFSuntxYFijqwpmmRaOICP aS/vdTkROiP6l39ZXiMAwYpwZeZO8hS8qjwBCFwBl1Trdth2db6NF3NsgRKehthg/zJX5Vc3vt3YK2ioYL7eVg== X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 22:16:59 -0000 In message <201711252206.vAPM6a0A060208@slippy.cwsent.com>, Cy Schubert writes: > In message <20171125213454.GA10490@lonesome.com>, Mark Linimon writes: > > On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 11:18:02AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: > > > 1. Make fortune a port. > > > > A port for the "classical" fortunes file has already been added. > > Indeed, in bsdgames. Like really?! What's all the fuss about? Just nuke > from base then. I have half a mind to just blow it away now and be done > with all this nonsense. Apologies for the frustration. While taking breaks from putting in new electrical in this 104 year old house, my extreme frustration at the plumbing and joists in my way to completing what should be a simple job is spilling over on list. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 23:03:56 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2E5ADF2DF3; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:03:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x236.google.com (mail-wm0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36D757329E; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:03:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x236.google.com with SMTP id g130so24026463wme.0; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:03:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=FBoy13qzIjRSy6Fhb+v6gINBkKf20TLL1uWnNNYMm/k=; b=LW6F1Xw64lhdrzzv+2ZT4SOOae6Nzq82DSZfNW1c9dmr3r2+QXBlhR8cEvC7mpFrP+ Fw8LlzVBZQMQRGyKGqh4zhVLsgjo/h4ZWeOCreC965KFRbKA6er56mg6GSITuyAibgHz 3iHhRNqDK9RM4P0niDlofWFnR3zqMOM0BhRd/ej4WDDwtKiAYpTdeE62K5/rvUN30n4I tx6Lhs1xl1jVWg4FoS33cMnedd/Kr9dJpwBMrfFXYryERFqTm/y+fXTVR1b6gUEx+A23 VKEJ9bFxaRJvP3YkJB1g6M6XcDCIGJ0+vCTu5qGSgXyB/OlvthhG6YdgK9ZpOVSSkGVg 2jZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=FBoy13qzIjRSy6Fhb+v6gINBkKf20TLL1uWnNNYMm/k=; b=VNWKbJUvp/9U/wR9mYFW9o3uFrt6hv1QbDXRcDt8NpWcoYuoFXgt/39xjw+lKzjhpq shaSNWv+qk/Gx8WjYHIAr0MjhXk+HnYt78asCaZhyJ1SnNe+BnZmEVkRN2BPD2WV22o6 YgyiVuEqxN0ziKozTUpQEkz2HbxUSRT4xmT/RcKV1oYuD7IdQiwGvnNv3K2udaV1I2jk ptzZ08Qhp4qLhdkOokZBQ5/9427mTR3KUQa4Pg4LJQ98+bLxWhaNKjifoe0aC+nRCVXx GCsemDbPxlCCT/fFTPHMtbapfitNwWBxtyXXEYkwx/ER27Gd/W9FTY0MGW9ZaD2VIJ0w 84Cg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX71UXAxZShr+lseadxgb+BpOGffHF4K2aouH7YyyHi/TcK8hkSw Ry7IbmOi0qWGZN+LETdL02OdPaOR8IwVaDEBwe/K3w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZq7PvpFDjOBnqtHb2BqOWTPu8xgUI+FABF3ld7crHUO5PHJjcZUlTsQcMrEPjo4SJoEdX7GINEwLOUE44k4QA= X-Received: by 10.28.224.4 with SMTP id x4mr12379423wmg.118.1511651033552; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:03:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.213.131 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:03:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201711252216.vAPMGoM7075129@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <201711252206.vAPM6a0A060208@slippy.cwsent.com> <201711252216.vAPMGoM7075129@slippy.cwsent.com> From: Adrian Chadd Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:03:51 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: Cy Schubert Cc: Cy Schubert , Mark Linimon , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:03:56 -0000 On 25 November 2017 at 14:16, Cy Schubert wrote: > In message <201711252206.vAPM6a0A060208@slippy.cwsent.com>, Cy Schubert > writes: >> In message <20171125213454.GA10490@lonesome.com>, Mark Linimon writes: >> > On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 11:18:02AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: >> > > 1. Make fortune a port. >> > >> > A port for the "classical" fortunes file has already been added. >> >> Indeed, in bsdgames. Like really?! What's all the fuss about? Just nuke >> from base then. I have half a mind to just blow it away now and be done >> with all this nonsense. > > > Apologies for the frustration. While taking breaks from putting in new > electrical in this 104 year old house, my extreme frustration at the > plumbing and joists in my way to completing what should be a simple job is > spilling over on list. You and me both. Mmm lead paint, asbestos and knob/tube wiring tapped infinitely... -adrian From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 23:21:56 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC4B7DF334B; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:21:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6ED0073897; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:21:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([96.50.22.10]) by shaw.ca with SMTP id IjlfeXZTPGvLHIjlheBusN; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 16:21:54 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=a9pAzQaF c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:117 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=sC3jslCIGhcA:10 a=BWvPGDcYAAAA:8 a=VxmjJ2MpAAAA:8 a=-FGs326eAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=4WzT7Xe7Adav9QqyOycA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=oappaISLdyUA:10 a=CtDkzlP1Ic4A:10 a=pxhY87DP9d2VeQe4joPk:22 a=7gXAzLPJhVmCkEl4_tsf:22 a=7Nw9HX5Nqxt2AnyyOhBr:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 821BF714; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:21:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vAPNLpXo025197; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:21:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id vAPNLnhc025188; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:21:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201711252321.vAPNLnhc025188@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Adrian Chadd cc: Cy Schubert , Cy Schubert , Mark Linimon , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) In-Reply-To: Message from Adrian Chadd of "Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:03:51 -0800." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:21:49 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfE0IkM379XwsK0hpE0mApPEupcL8Wwm3M64Avszm/GU+2/GrTc3Ft2d/9GT4/PaQvu/HH6hs+SiNLeA/w0NEwaRDfZ3di6BEZhxccKmhypqkj3PwA7vp hKjkAkLV2dy8NKmbJkhFCxLl2DnjMW6qx0oQljNCxK1QQgYWGsvLscrRFw86duodfIfHvPi2B9kzEtECMz9j1E1HAMwwSQlPp8hzoUlOE63iJDM9akzG8XlD ZdTylIaMHUqt22a6Xj36JJTxFDWHmRAb7Pe49oj+QTFkRGeRc4cArxGm7aMjEPhu8TmCwcZCmL6I8JTCydiWCw== X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:21:56 -0000 In message , Adrian Chadd writes: > On 25 November 2017 at 14:16, Cy Schubert wrote: > > In message <201711252206.vAPM6a0A060208@slippy.cwsent.com>, Cy Schubert > > writes: > >> In message <20171125213454.GA10490@lonesome.com>, Mark Linimon writes: > >> > On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 11:18:02AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: > >> > > 1. Make fortune a port. > >> > > >> > A port for the "classical" fortunes file has already been added. > >> > >> Indeed, in bsdgames. Like really?! What's all the fuss about? Just nuke > >> from base then. I have half a mind to just blow it away now and be done > >> with all this nonsense. > > > > > > Apologies for the frustration. While taking breaks from putting in new > > electrical in this 104 year old house, my extreme frustration at the > > plumbing and joists in my way to completing what should be a simple job is > > spilling over on list. > > You and me both. > > Mmm lead paint, asbestos and knob/tube wiring tapped infinitely... Yuck. That is not fun. I should stop complaining and feeling miserable. :\ -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 23:39:41 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0461DF381B; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:39:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr0-x234.google.com (mail-wr0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5431F740E2; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:39:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr0-x234.google.com with SMTP id k61so23207906wrc.4; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:39:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=sQ9mvzMlFim31DFRcNQLPWJoCh/PdXwe9YOEJzSNp64=; b=s74ahXxg65PSgn+RzRhzf5f9tvUo7aqcXX70CllTnFS35m6BPAAbanSvOdGeJwRdsV maJFdItsNRgVwIBwSPH/dJ9FYAHQGI9rBrbjOc/CNQISbQa93NSYJ+bCgGBm91TiYB2D 3mditpfDc8JOgAbVE3ceTd38hrRYFDGix9pLtQPAxHnSSmAlqroofzQKhLz1a6YVHaSa 4/AC9Kl7qkgtxJr7YZe8RfIxh6rIuVKW8Uc8UW6CDzY/JUuIydP3XNCesyHy6UkX7u3b Bc4uiXJN76EEvh/7qTLJ0K4iwQt7n4E/+aFOfu88+qmDyE/YX3pYqC44RY52/pkk/Vgn A2Lg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sQ9mvzMlFim31DFRcNQLPWJoCh/PdXwe9YOEJzSNp64=; b=DW5Ih84OJcg7C0LPtaf1Y0XSRJde1rvFHiWdY3l3xg17dp0+KwMceVR0PNNCSiZupg NG9Ne2AW+LNgA72LgSxkAw/VhZDZrMOOfeunhCQ1ZQJiLLTc47vUwM+fEhthmRGaukON 98xZ6cgis9Wg/qceLuIV8li4VaoXLI0TMyGgntLBSapLHvMbFVp38QR3OauW46kecnEO Gp6BF3gC8fnF9Jxulm2NKR417GEdH8V+76fOF6bfMUW1rbxvaELOogmKFQdr0ilovxix ktrlfw1MFfDtQSBPczGmQYE0tyM+eR9Gi/M5L+4AnHlmy4pn1YAafUtQC/7l6v3xJD98 3QAw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7Vyd8iH7e2+AHQ9p5RuUliIIQzZIU/1b+BPKQKtMzFtvf+oN6A Gb8DJGQcQ6dyTo8hHMjFFpwljXQro6tUrW1uHgiS6g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbRjzvlgVx91oG8KkXecCv0r5WfgscWGWC7nuTynzINQ9PUKJ0GuYDGCml1B4GjOHQlwExgDtV6t9moO8WOCVk= X-Received: by 10.223.190.2 with SMTP id n2mr23026538wrh.44.1511653179720; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:39:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.213.131 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:39:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201711252321.vAPNLnhc025188@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <201711252321.vAPNLnhc025188@slippy.cwsent.com> From: Adrian Chadd Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:39:37 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: Cy Schubert Cc: Cy Schubert , Mark Linimon , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:39:41 -0000 On 25 November 2017 at 15:21, Cy Schubert wrote: >> Mmm lead paint, asbestos and knob/tube wiring tapped infinitely... > > Yuck. That is not fun. I should stop complaining and feeling miserable. :\ Nah, let it out. There's so much to do. Wait until I tell you about the carpets that had vinyl flooring underneath with wood floors under that, with what looks like someone's old oil fire... -a From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 23:42:48 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33087DF3AEE; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:42:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 181C274560; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:42:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5FA011442; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 17:42:46 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 17:42:45 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Adrian Chadd Cc: Cy Schubert , Cy Schubert , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Message-ID: <20171125234245.GB10771@lonesome.com> References: <201711252321.vAPNLnhc025188@slippy.cwsent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:42:48 -0000 On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 03:39:37PM -0800, Adrian Chadd wrote: > Wait until I tell you about the carpets that had vinyl flooring > underneath with wood floors under that, with what looks like someone's > old oil fire... Wow. Not even _my_ house contains such horrors. Mark "now I have to figure out how my new hot weater heater was badly installed" Linimon