From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Sun Nov 11 10:46:46 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F7291134694; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 10:46:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from se@freebsd.org) Received: from mailout05.t-online.de (mailout05.t-online.de [194.25.134.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mailout00.t-online.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C66B7A74A; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 10:46:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from se@freebsd.org) Received: from fwd38.aul.t-online.de (fwd38.aul.t-online.de [172.20.26.138]) by mailout05.t-online.de (Postfix) with SMTP id 5EDB642330AB; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 11:46:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from Stefans-MBP-WLAN.fritz.box (E1pID6ZGZhzQ12dvDik9AYzxkt9mdm-zg12gPgHftz2zUaqCAq+KLap0jXfluMYgaE@[80.128.111.25]) by fwd38.t-online.de with (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 encrypted) esmtp id 1gLnGD-0CA06S0; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 11:46:33 +0100 Subject: Re: ctm(1) deprecation in the FreeBSD base system? To: Warner Losh , "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , "Montgomery-Smith, Stephen" , ctm-users@freebsd.org, Poul-Henning Kamp , FreeBSD Current , Ed Maste References: <201810231948.w9NJmYlC078288@fire.js.berklix.net> <201810232013.w9NKDOQC023342@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Stefan Esser Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=se@freebsd.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsBNBFVxiRIBCADOLNOZBsqlplHUQ3tG782FNtVT33rQli9EjNt2fhFERHIo4NxHlWBpHLnU b0s4L/eItx7au0i7Gegv01A9LUMwOnAc9EFAm4EW3Wmoa6MYrcP7xDClohg/Y69f7SNpEs3x YATBy+L6NzWZbJjZXD4vqPgZSDuMcLU7BEdJf0f+6h1BJPnGuwHpsSdnnMrZeIM8xQ8PPUVQ L0GZkVojHgNUngJH6e21qDrud0BkdiBcij0M3TCP4GQrJ/YMdurfc8mhueLpwGR2U1W8TYB7 4UY+NLw0McThOCLCxXflIeF/Y7jSB0zxzvb/H3LWkodUTkV57yX9IbUAGA5RKRg9zsUtABEB AAHNKVN0ZWZhbiBFw59lciAoWWFob28hKSA8c3QuZXNzZXJAeWFob28uZGU+wsCWBBMBCgBA AhsDBwsJCAcDAgEGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQSjceplnAvsyCtxUxNH67XvWv31RAUC WvLvqwUJCyUBEwAKCRBH67XvWv31REySCACc6vqcSFQCRyBRc2CV5ZBjbbnTy7VBoXbUS3/c 4Hn8I0YQ39q7//2z8vYsgLeM1mMXL4PUIU/0f0dBAFBLpxV7bntGzyCJls6SeGS/qcQKhqaI 6I7NcWg8OkIJIhUL6q238cS1ql9pU65fyHe0PP8JS08m81PDpX2/4wTE6h2jgYUy55eXRzoF MEjr1S8SSnidsBem27o7iWu9ltJsUtE86071iZlLzbuHv2nvucrjAV9cK9tHrxYT/YiY8QhT L48iWj2xIjLjg1ebmgIFZ2k881we/KTIoUugqOOR1gDSc4qwM8CA388cN3frjtl98CwhAT5T UV8tIDqri+/Z1AKwzsBNBFVxiRIBCACxI/aglzGVbnI6XHd0MTP05VK/fJub4hHdc+LQpz1M kVnCAhFbY9oecTB/togdKtfiloavjbFrb0nJhJnx57K+3SdSuu+znaQ4SlWiZOtXnkbpRWNU eMm+gtTDMSvloGAfr76RtFHskdDOLgXsHD70bKuMhlBxUCrSwGzHaD00q8iQPhJZ5itb3WPq z3B4IjiDAWTO2obD1wtAvSuHuUj/XJRsiKDKW3x13cfavkad81bZW4cpNwUv8XHLv/vaZPSA ly+hkY7NrDZydMMXVNQ7AJQufWuTJ0q7sImRcEZ5EIa98esJPey4O7C0vY405wjeyxpVZkpq ThDMurqtQFn1ABEBAAHCwHwEGAEKACYCGwwWIQSjceplnAvsyCtxUxNH67XvWv31RAUCWvLv qwUJCyUBGQAKCRBH67XvWv31RLnrB/9gzcRlpx71sDMosoZULWn7wysBJ/8AIEfIByRaHQe3 pn/KwE57pB+zFbbQqB7YzeZb7/UUgR4zU2ZbOcEfwDZcHUbj0B3fGRsS3t0uiLlAd8w0sBZb SxrqzjdpDjIbOZkxssqUmvrsN67UG1AFWH9aD24keBS7YjPBS8hLxPeYV+Xz6vUL8fRZje/Z JgiBMIwyj6g2lH/zkdnxBdC0iG1xxJOLTaghMMeQyCdH6ef8+VMyAlAJsMckbOTvx63tY8z7 DFcrnTJfbe1EziRilVsEaK8tTzJzhcTfos+f3eBYWEilxe5HzIhYKJeC7lmsSUcGwa6+9VRg a0ctmi9Z8OgX Message-ID: Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 11:46:32 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ID: E1pID6ZGZhzQ12dvDik9AYzxkt9mdm-zg12gPgHftz2zUaqCAq+KLap0jXfluMYgaE X-TOI-MSGID: 367e937b-2d71-4c5f-91c5-66fb98b6dcd9 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 3C66B7A74A X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-102.92 / 200.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; ALLOW_DOMAIN_WHITELIST(-100.00)[freebsd.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[82.134.25.194.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.18]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx66.freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.990,0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[82.134.25.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-0.82)[ipnet: 194.25.0.0/16(-3.65), asn: 3320(-0.43), country: DE(-0.02)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:3320, ipnet:194.25.0.0/16, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Server: mx1.freebsd.org X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 10:46:46 -0000 Am 23.10.18 um 22:21 schrieb Warner Losh: > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 2:13 PM Rodney W. Grimes> At the most/least we should not go very far, > the only thing that needs done soon is a gonein(13) commited > to head and MFC'ed to stable/12 by thursday. > > All the other details should wait until a depreication policy > revision is completed that includes how to deal with this. > > There's no reason at all to wait. We can create the port. We can create the > github repo. We can move the history there. We won't  be removing it before we > have a chance to socialize the removal and give people a chance to cut over. > None of this requires a new policy. Everybody agrees we should do it. We > shouldn't let some perceived policy get in the way of just moving forward. I have created a review for the removal of CTM on phabricator: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D17935 The goal of this review is not to get approval for the removal within a few days, but to have all relevant changes documented and open for review. Since the removal affects ObsoleteFiles, there is some churn if another entry is added before approval, but it is easy enough to deal with it ... I'd still appreciate comments and a suggestion when to perform the removal. I could add a gonein(13) now, to give further attention to the depreciation of CTM, in the mean-time. Regards, STefan