From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun May 27 16:44:30 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA182F7A051 for ; Sun, 27 May 2018 16:44:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) Received: from mailhost.m5p.com (mailhost.m5p.com [74.104.188.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "m5p.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23D3B86076 for ; Sun, 27 May 2018 16:44:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) Received: from [10.100.0.31] (haymarket.m5p.com [10.100.0.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailhost.m5p.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w4RGawva028073 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 27 May 2018 12:37:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) To: FreeBSD Hackers From: George Mitchell Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=george+freebsd@m5p.com; 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FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QrlYnGnAVNvecQRlGnQ244RC4C1f7f6Pa" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on mattapan.m5p.com X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (mailhost.m5p.com [10.100.0.247]); Sun, 27 May 2018 12:37:08 -0400 (EDT) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 May 2018 16:44:30 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --QrlYnGnAVNvecQRlGnQ244RC4C1f7f6Pa Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="n9ysDud70YwRxebLYMjA2DUcLdWevD7UK"; protected-headers="v1" From: George Mitchell To: FreeBSD Hackers Message-ID: <182832e1-4968-4a83-02a3-84cfa9def675@m5p.com> Subject: Indexing a dump file --n9ysDud70YwRxebLYMjA2DUcLdWevD7UK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm drowning in old dump files and I would like to index them. "restore -t" gives me a list of all the files in a dump, but I would like to get the date of last modification and the size of each as well. Is there something short of just doing a "restore" and "ls -lR" that would get me the information? -- George P.S. A hash of each file would be icing on the cake, but I don't expect I could do that without doing a full restore. --n9ysDud70YwRxebLYMjA2DUcLdWevD7UK-- --QrlYnGnAVNvecQRlGnQ244RC4C1f7f6Pa Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEENdM4ZHktsJW5kKZXwRES3m+p4fkFAlsK3q0ACgkQwRES3m+p 4fmBiw//Q+wttJ/UztpwmrMTd1YJGdwFy1drx1ja5JgW5cgqZov3hytvJ8O59lzl KInSc6buVxDWQVj8ojy1JUIi2zbnMyu+Db+DPE8egEIfZ7WcGW3nPtfHmWqJebBi cWElbxymIEb/2/3fuXyi8jjx9Yy+z37z966JnU236cOZ9dMmRQ4HbYYCFbImifCF uXYEff5o8ge37KGeBx3CoN6z/4l/4K7dtjKqh2jJLD3uXNFnRwPo0gxdnuOrcEb2 ZZdACRiRgSFI74/ox4/zaDdiId/zc7WNvM4Qk5HTf7oWR5tx8OP7aaosnNyWBfBR pYsOg8S1CcpPNAyoDCLaYyH5C+uFRYXWNpWEwTKX0/NKEvScVZfxm8oLXnoDSuaS e4b80AxxOpEo4rpox6KQ/XeCy2L22Av6FUez223PqXsm5qOUJHLti1fgFk6j5Y3U nzJl8o1hNFthBujK5oV89l5Z7IoB7dva6akWOVGZV6RBUWMYriyxXe8NwA2GuSDu sN0FsUnaY/Ui1enMMNXL3FVr2lhlk2wI/wfjdZlf575bvjGVBPkHQszuOzF9Pivd CuqridSAp1QTF0DJ513adnYPTjUA5T43xwIW0IS+qNiSrG9bwsS69YwvIIV6ABy+ 7HIDDWVMDhHZIlp62ZlUJC0MY8II0mBmVlf+keTtYim6RasYKNM= =4hh9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --QrlYnGnAVNvecQRlGnQ244RC4C1f7f6Pa-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun May 27 18:42:24 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75669F7CDEB for ; Sun, 27 May 2018 18:42:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E65D4693EC for ; Sun, 27 May 2018 18:42:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id w4RIgKiP056444; Sun, 27 May 2018 11:42:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id w4RIgKDg056443; Sun, 27 May 2018 11:42:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201805271842.w4RIgKDg056443@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: Indexing a dump file In-Reply-To: <182832e1-4968-4a83-02a3-84cfa9def675@m5p.com> To: George Mitchell Date: Sun, 27 May 2018 11:42:20 -0700 (PDT) CC: FreeBSD Hackers X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 May 2018 18:42:24 -0000 > I'm drowning in old dump files and I would like to index them. > "restore -t" gives me a list of all the files in a dump, but I would > like to get the date of last modification and the size of each as well. > Is there something short of just doing a "restore" and "ls -lR" that > would get me the information? -- George > > P.S. A hash of each file would be icing on the cake, but I don't > expect I could do that without doing a full restore. A hacking of restore(8) sources would not be difficult to add some of this. Though you are gong to need to build the symtab as if you was doing a restore, you would not need to write the data to disk. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun May 27 22:25:47 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45EEAEEECED for ; Sun, 27 May 2018 22:25:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vtr.rulingia.com (vtr.rulingia.com [IPv6:2001:19f0:5801:ebe:5400:1ff:fe53:30fd]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vtr.rulingia.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89F3B714C3 for ; Sun, 27 May 2018 22:25:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from server.rulingia.com (ppp59-167-167-3.static.internode.on.net [59.167.167.3]) by vtr.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w4RMPZIJ099577 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2018 08:25:42 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w4RMPUKs081076 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 28 May 2018 08:25:30 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w4RMPULg081075; Mon, 28 May 2018 08:25:30 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 08:25:30 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: George Mitchell Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Indexing a dump file Message-ID: <20180527222529.GB96747@server.rulingia.com> References: <182832e1-4968-4a83-02a3-84cfa9def675@m5p.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LZvS9be/3tNcYl/X" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <182832e1-4968-4a83-02a3-84cfa9def675@m5p.com> X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.5 (2018-04-13) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 May 2018 22:25:47 -0000 --LZvS9be/3tNcYl/X Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2018-May-27 12:36:55 -0400, George Mitchell wro= te: >I'm drowning in old dump files and I would like to index them. >"restore -t" gives me a list of all the files in a dump, but I would >like to get the date of last modification and the size of each as well. >Is there something short of just doing a "restore" and "ls -lR" that >would get me the information? -- George I'll second the suggestion of hacking restore to DWYW. Note that all the file metadata is at the beginning of the dump so this doesn't require reading the entire dump. Unfortunately, the dump format is not documented in a man page so you will need to UTSL. >P.S. A hash of each file would be icing on the cake, but I don't >expect I could do that without doing a full restore. You would need to read the entire dump but you don't need to restore it - it would be fairly easy to generate file hashes directly from the data in the dump. --=20 Peter Jeremy --LZvS9be/3tNcYl/X Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEE7rKYbDBnHnTmXCJ+FqWXoOSiCzQFAlsLMFlfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEVF QjI5ODZDMzA2NzFFNzRFNjVDMjI3RTE2QTU5N0EwRTRBMjBCMzQACgkQFqWXoOSi CzRVlQ/9Fj46rPpowmR6WKV2VKGKYO67ri1bUlC/8t8yiCh1Q2z7IoXQvuLs+HdF jWFX0llROeA0oMzBrKbXhmjzYBrovdstvVkhWroBlPEYiXJg3R6uAXzqaaDyYlH/ Ba1LoYsxUHGkgBAHFuH/fc6CXAWG8/LPkegFRcs8VrwnlUJy0nJvnJYI64MSmqjT Xhqq3vWKhkr9vvaiBf4tA2hHmyzs9k7FB2VwxIAFuILYpk4EgWDHHdxozJG1kxQF CpUmjtMRzWKboqEDA8xXwxqTduEcbQHxwS0unSi2a42rUnn8tYo51hyR1MXVpUT1 9KOOMeRqMiGUP7jcjtRsIsSF91g1dpmzUdzd/XPv5te5+tux5IjG3iI7am3r6Vgd p59eCAVvaBaytavHtWDJC++3L6lviwwqZiv01EnWb3CZzrVA0N0iIF3/LO5Obl+E bLD8H9c7gcdSJqjNmVnt+C5dFwQmDwHs3vAPxTiQLTrDko/S89KDLr3MwkY0UxhL 9vKfhge4zF5imyC282WlUxCS9znfo5EmQP5tEu7hyNKTZQ6oTi3Oi6JWWMUmNlX6 RBPS28YdCD+Yeq00bX0TprfSWCg1aehSg3QGDD58o7j9LlzI8A0cd04l9TJ1sVV3 QlfoBYRDyrnWK4KtAEDKR8nv6LG2cSsY+z8kQu0AJ6b9ral9JLA= =gMjA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LZvS9be/3tNcYl/X-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon May 28 18:33:54 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 164B5F76192 for ; 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Mon, 28 May 2018 11:33:52 -0700 (PDT) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Adhemerval Zanella Subject: Code with apache-2 on /usr/src Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFcVGkoBEADiQU2x/cBBmAVf5C2d1xgz6zCnlCefbqaflUBw4hB/bEME40QsrVzWZ5Nq 8kxkEczZzAOKkkvv4pRVLlLn/zDtFXhlcvQRJ3yFMGqzBjofucOrmdYkOGo0uCaoJKPT186L NWp53SACXguFJpnw4ODI64ziInzXQs/rUJqrFoVIlrPDmNv/LUv1OVPKz20ETjgfpg8MNwG6 iMizMefCl+RbtXbIEZ3TE/IaDT/jcOirjv96lBKrc/pAL0h/O71Kwbbp43fimW80GhjiaN2y WGByepnkAVP7FyNarhdDpJhoDmUk9yfwNuIuESaCQtfd3vgKKuo6grcKZ8bHy7IXX1XJj2X/ BgRVhVgMHAnDPFIkXtP+SiarkUaLjGzCz7XkUn4XAGDskBNfbizFqYUQCaL2FdbW3DeZqNIa nSzKAZK7Dm9+0VVSRZXP89w71Y7JUV56xL/PlOE+YKKFdEw+gQjQi0e+DZILAtFjJLoCrkEX w4LluMhYX/X8XP6/C3xW0yOZhvHYyn72sV4yJ1uyc/qz3OY32CRy+bwPzAMAkhdwcORA3JPb kPTlimhQqVgvca8m+MQ/JFZ6D+K7QPyvEv7bQ7M+IzFmTkOCwCJ3xqOD6GjX3aphk8Sr0dq3 4Awlf5xFDAG8dn8Uuutb7naGBd/fEv6t8dfkNyzj6yvc4jpVxwARAQABzUlBZGhlbWVydmFs IFphbmVsbGEgTmV0dG8gKExpbmFybyBWUE4gS2V5KSA8YWRoZW1lcnZhbC56YW5lbGxhQGxp bmFyby5vcmc+wsF3BBMBCAAhBQJXFRpKAhsDBQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYCAwEAAh4BAheAAAoJ EKqx7BSnlIjv0e8P/1YOYoNkvJ+AJcNUaM5a2SA9oAKjSJ/M/EN4Id5Ow41ZJS4lUA0apSXW NjQg3VeVc2RiHab2LIB4MxdJhaWTuzfLkYnBeoy4u6njYcaoSwf3g9dSsvsl3mhtuzm6aXFH /Qsauav77enJh99tI4T+58rp0EuLhDsQbnBic/ukYNv7sQV8dy9KxA54yLnYUFqH6pfH8Lly sTVAMyi5Fg5O5/hVV+Z0Kpr+ZocC1YFJkTsNLAW5EIYSP9ftniqaVsim7MNmodv/zqK0IyDB GLLH1kjhvb5+6ySGlWbMTomt/or/uvMgulz0bRS+LUyOmlfXDdT+t38VPKBBVwFMarNuREU2 69M3a3jdTfScboDd2ck1u7l+QbaGoHZQ8ZNUrzgObltjohiIsazqkgYDQzXIMrD9H19E+8fw kCNUlXxjEgH/Kg8DlpoYJXSJCX0fjMWfXywL6ZXc2xyG/hbl5hvsLNmqDpLpc1CfKcA0BkK+ k8R57fr91mTCppSwwKJYO9T+8J+o4ho/CJnK/jBy1pWKMYJPvvrpdBCWq3MfzVpXYdahRKHI ypk8m4QlRlbOXWJ3TDd/SKNfSSrWgwRSg7XCjSlR7PNzNFXTULLB34sZhjrN6Q8NQZsZnMNs TX8nlGOVrKolnQPjKCLwCyu8PhllU8OwbSMKskcD1PSkG6h3r0AqzsFNBFcVGkoBEACgAdbR Ck+fsfOVwT8zowMiL3l9a2DP3Eeak23ifdZG+8Avb/SImpv0UMSbRfnw/N81IWwlbjkjbGTu oT37iZHLRwYUFmA8fZX0wNDNKQUUTjN6XalJmvhdz9l71H3WnE0wneEM5ahu5V1L1utUWTyh VUwzX1lwJeV3vyrNgI1kYOaeuNVvq7npNR6t6XxEpqPsNc6O77I12XELic2+36YibyqlTJIQ V1SZEbIy26AbC2zH9WqaKyGyQnr/IPbTJ2Lv0dM3RaXoVf+CeK7gB2B+w1hZummD21c1Laua +VIMPCUQ+EM8W9EtX+0iJXxI+wsztLT6vltQcm+5Q7tY+HFUucizJkAOAz98YFucwKefbkTp eKvCfCwiM1bGatZEFFKIlvJ2QNMQNiUrqJBlW9nZp/k7pbG3oStOjvawD9ZbP9e0fnlWJIsj 6c7pX354Yi7kxIk/6gREidHLLqEb/otuwt1aoMPg97iUgDV5mlNef77lWE8vxmlY0FBWIXuZ yv0XYxf1WF6dRizwFFbxvUZzIJp3spAao7jLsQj1DbD2s5+S1BW09A0mI/1DjB6EhNN+4bDB SJCOv/ReK3tFJXuj/HbyDrOdoMt8aIFbe7YFLEExHpSk+HgN05Lg5TyTro8oW7TSMTk+8a5M kzaH4UGXTTBDP/g5cfL3RFPl79ubXwARAQABwsFfBBgBCAAJBQJXFRpKAhsMAAoJEKqx7BSn lIjvI/8P/jg0jl4Tbvg3B5kT6PxJOXHYu9OoyaHLcay6Cd+ZrOd1VQQCbOcgLFbf4Yr+rE9l mYsY67AUgq2QKmVVbn9pjvGsEaz8UmfDnz5epUhDxC6yRRvY4hreMXZhPZ1pbMa6A0a/WOSt AgFj5V6Z4dXGTM/lNManr0HjXxbUYv2WfbNt3/07Db9T+GZkpUotC6iknsTA4rJi6u2ls0W9 1UIvW4o01vb4nZRCj4rni0g6eWoQCGoVDk/xFfy7ZliR5B+3Z3EWRJcQskip/QAHjbLa3pml xAZ484fVxgeESOoaeC9TiBIp0NfH8akWOI0HpBCiBD5xaCTvR7ujUWMvhsX2n881r/hNlR9g fcE6q00qHSPAEgGr1bnFv74/1vbKtjeXLCcRKk3Ulw0bY1OoDxWQr86T2fZGJ/HIZuVVBf3+ gaYJF92GXFynHnea14nFFuFgOni0Mi1zDxYH/8yGGBXvo14KWd8JOW0NJPaCDFJkdS5hu0VY 7vJwKcyHJGxsCLU+Et0mryX8qZwqibJIzu7kUJQdQDljbRPDFd/xmGUFCQiQAncSilYOcxNU EMVCXPAQTteqkvA+gNqSaK1NM9tY0eQ4iJpo+aoX8HAcn4sZzt2pfUB9vQMTBJ2d4+m/qO6+ cFTAceXmIoFsN8+gFN3i8Is3u12u8xGudcBPvpoy4OoG Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 15:33:47 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 18:33:54 -0000 Hi all, I am evaluating adding the ARM optimized math routines [1] on FreeBSD msum library and I would like to check which the policy regarding licensing on /usr/src code. The optimized math code is licensed on Apache-2 and afaik it should be compatible with FreeBSD BDS license, is there anything impending to use the code as-is on msum? Or do I need to adjust and check with author if the idea is re-license? [1] https://github.com/ARM-software/optimized-routines From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon May 28 19:04:56 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06309F7819D for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 19:04:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76D417C118; Mon, 28 May 2018 19:04:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w4SJ4iaA078497; Mon, 28 May 2018 22:04:47 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua w4SJ4iaA078497 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w4SJ4iIb078496; Mon, 28 May 2018 22:04:44 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kib@freebsd.org using -f Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 22:04:44 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Adhemerval Zanella Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Code with apache-2 on /usr/src Message-ID: <20180528190444.GE3789@kib.kiev.ua> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.0 (2018-05-17) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on tom.home X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 19:04:56 -0000 On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 03:33:47PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: > Hi all, > > I am evaluating adding the ARM optimized math routines [1] on FreeBSD msum > library and I would like to check which the policy regarding licensing on > /usr/src code. The optimized math code is licensed on Apache-2 and afaik > it should be compatible with FreeBSD BDS license, is there anything > impending to use the code as-is on msum? Or do I need to adjust and check > with author if the idea is re-license? > > [1] https://github.com/ARM-software/optimized-routines Are you asking only about the license's compatibility, or is you intent to contribute the ARM libm code to the FreeBSD project ? From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon May 28 19:08:56 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E23B2F7863D for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 19:08:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org) Received: from mail-qt0-x231.google.com (mail-qt0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BAE87C444 for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 19:08:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org) Received: by mail-qt0-x231.google.com with SMTP id f1-v6so15943831qtj.6 for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 12:08:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linaro.org; s=google; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; 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Mon, 28 May 2018 12:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.105] ([179.159.11.160]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id l73-v6sm806852qkl.78.2018.05.28.12.08.53 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 May 2018 12:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Code with apache-2 on /usr/src To: Konstantin Belousov Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org References: <20180528190444.GE3789@kib.kiev.ua> From: Adhemerval Zanella Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFcVGkoBEADiQU2x/cBBmAVf5C2d1xgz6zCnlCefbqaflUBw4hB/bEME40QsrVzWZ5Nq 8kxkEczZzAOKkkvv4pRVLlLn/zDtFXhlcvQRJ3yFMGqzBjofucOrmdYkOGo0uCaoJKPT186L NWp53SACXguFJpnw4ODI64ziInzXQs/rUJqrFoVIlrPDmNv/LUv1OVPKz20ETjgfpg8MNwG6 iMizMefCl+RbtXbIEZ3TE/IaDT/jcOirjv96lBKrc/pAL0h/O71Kwbbp43fimW80GhjiaN2y WGByepnkAVP7FyNarhdDpJhoDmUk9yfwNuIuESaCQtfd3vgKKuo6grcKZ8bHy7IXX1XJj2X/ BgRVhVgMHAnDPFIkXtP+SiarkUaLjGzCz7XkUn4XAGDskBNfbizFqYUQCaL2FdbW3DeZqNIa nSzKAZK7Dm9+0VVSRZXP89w71Y7JUV56xL/PlOE+YKKFdEw+gQjQi0e+DZILAtFjJLoCrkEX w4LluMhYX/X8XP6/C3xW0yOZhvHYyn72sV4yJ1uyc/qz3OY32CRy+bwPzAMAkhdwcORA3JPb kPTlimhQqVgvca8m+MQ/JFZ6D+K7QPyvEv7bQ7M+IzFmTkOCwCJ3xqOD6GjX3aphk8Sr0dq3 4Awlf5xFDAG8dn8Uuutb7naGBd/fEv6t8dfkNyzj6yvc4jpVxwARAQABzUlBZGhlbWVydmFs IFphbmVsbGEgTmV0dG8gKExpbmFybyBWUE4gS2V5KSA8YWRoZW1lcnZhbC56YW5lbGxhQGxp bmFyby5vcmc+wsF3BBMBCAAhBQJXFRpKAhsDBQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYCAwEAAh4BAheAAAoJ EKqx7BSnlIjv0e8P/1YOYoNkvJ+AJcNUaM5a2SA9oAKjSJ/M/EN4Id5Ow41ZJS4lUA0apSXW NjQg3VeVc2RiHab2LIB4MxdJhaWTuzfLkYnBeoy4u6njYcaoSwf3g9dSsvsl3mhtuzm6aXFH /Qsauav77enJh99tI4T+58rp0EuLhDsQbnBic/ukYNv7sQV8dy9KxA54yLnYUFqH6pfH8Lly sTVAMyi5Fg5O5/hVV+Z0Kpr+ZocC1YFJkTsNLAW5EIYSP9ftniqaVsim7MNmodv/zqK0IyDB GLLH1kjhvb5+6ySGlWbMTomt/or/uvMgulz0bRS+LUyOmlfXDdT+t38VPKBBVwFMarNuREU2 69M3a3jdTfScboDd2ck1u7l+QbaGoHZQ8ZNUrzgObltjohiIsazqkgYDQzXIMrD9H19E+8fw kCNUlXxjEgH/Kg8DlpoYJXSJCX0fjMWfXywL6ZXc2xyG/hbl5hvsLNmqDpLpc1CfKcA0BkK+ k8R57fr91mTCppSwwKJYO9T+8J+o4ho/CJnK/jBy1pWKMYJPvvrpdBCWq3MfzVpXYdahRKHI ypk8m4QlRlbOXWJ3TDd/SKNfSSrWgwRSg7XCjSlR7PNzNFXTULLB34sZhjrN6Q8NQZsZnMNs TX8nlGOVrKolnQPjKCLwCyu8PhllU8OwbSMKskcD1PSkG6h3r0AqzsFNBFcVGkoBEACgAdbR Ck+fsfOVwT8zowMiL3l9a2DP3Eeak23ifdZG+8Avb/SImpv0UMSbRfnw/N81IWwlbjkjbGTu oT37iZHLRwYUFmA8fZX0wNDNKQUUTjN6XalJmvhdz9l71H3WnE0wneEM5ahu5V1L1utUWTyh VUwzX1lwJeV3vyrNgI1kYOaeuNVvq7npNR6t6XxEpqPsNc6O77I12XELic2+36YibyqlTJIQ V1SZEbIy26AbC2zH9WqaKyGyQnr/IPbTJ2Lv0dM3RaXoVf+CeK7gB2B+w1hZummD21c1Laua +VIMPCUQ+EM8W9EtX+0iJXxI+wsztLT6vltQcm+5Q7tY+HFUucizJkAOAz98YFucwKefbkTp eKvCfCwiM1bGatZEFFKIlvJ2QNMQNiUrqJBlW9nZp/k7pbG3oStOjvawD9ZbP9e0fnlWJIsj 6c7pX354Yi7kxIk/6gREidHLLqEb/otuwt1aoMPg97iUgDV5mlNef77lWE8vxmlY0FBWIXuZ yv0XYxf1WF6dRizwFFbxvUZzIJp3spAao7jLsQj1DbD2s5+S1BW09A0mI/1DjB6EhNN+4bDB SJCOv/ReK3tFJXuj/HbyDrOdoMt8aIFbe7YFLEExHpSk+HgN05Lg5TyTro8oW7TSMTk+8a5M kzaH4UGXTTBDP/g5cfL3RFPl79ubXwARAQABwsFfBBgBCAAJBQJXFRpKAhsMAAoJEKqx7BSn lIjvI/8P/jg0jl4Tbvg3B5kT6PxJOXHYu9OoyaHLcay6Cd+ZrOd1VQQCbOcgLFbf4Yr+rE9l mYsY67AUgq2QKmVVbn9pjvGsEaz8UmfDnz5epUhDxC6yRRvY4hreMXZhPZ1pbMa6A0a/WOSt AgFj5V6Z4dXGTM/lNManr0HjXxbUYv2WfbNt3/07Db9T+GZkpUotC6iknsTA4rJi6u2ls0W9 1UIvW4o01vb4nZRCj4rni0g6eWoQCGoVDk/xFfy7ZliR5B+3Z3EWRJcQskip/QAHjbLa3pml xAZ484fVxgeESOoaeC9TiBIp0NfH8akWOI0HpBCiBD5xaCTvR7ujUWMvhsX2n881r/hNlR9g fcE6q00qHSPAEgGr1bnFv74/1vbKtjeXLCcRKk3Ulw0bY1OoDxWQr86T2fZGJ/HIZuVVBf3+ gaYJF92GXFynHnea14nFFuFgOni0Mi1zDxYH/8yGGBXvo14KWd8JOW0NJPaCDFJkdS5hu0VY 7vJwKcyHJGxsCLU+Et0mryX8qZwqibJIzu7kUJQdQDljbRPDFd/xmGUFCQiQAncSilYOcxNU EMVCXPAQTteqkvA+gNqSaK1NM9tY0eQ4iJpo+aoX8HAcn4sZzt2pfUB9vQMTBJ2d4+m/qO6+ cFTAceXmIoFsN8+gFN3i8Is3u12u8xGudcBPvpoy4OoG Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 16:08:49 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20180528190444.GE3789@kib.kiev.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 19:08:56 -0000 On 28/05/2018 16:04, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 03:33:47PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I am evaluating adding the ARM optimized math routines [1] on FreeBSD msum >> library and I would like to check which the policy regarding licensing on >> /usr/src code. The optimized math code is licensed on Apache-2 and afaik >> it should be compatible with FreeBSD BDS license, is there anything >> impending to use the code as-is on msum? Or do I need to adjust and check >> with author if the idea is re-license? >> >> [1] https://github.com/ARM-software/optimized-routines > > Are you asking only about the license's compatibility, or is you intent > to contribute the ARM libm code to the FreeBSD project ? > My intention is to contribute the ARM libm code to the FreeBSD msum library. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon May 28 19:35:14 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B89A4F79C6F for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 19:35:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4910D7D4C5; Mon, 28 May 2018 19:35:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w4SJZ6IB076995 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 28 May 2018 12:35:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w4SJZ651076994; Mon, 28 May 2018 12:35:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 12:35:06 -0700 From: Steve Kargl To: Adhemerval Zanella Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Code with apache-2 on /usr/src Message-ID: <20180528193506.GA76705@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20180528190444.GE3789@kib.kiev.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.2 (2017-12-15) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 19:35:14 -0000 On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 04:08:49PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: > > On 28/05/2018 16:04, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > > On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 03:33:47PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I am evaluating adding the ARM optimized math routines [1] on FreeBSD msum > >> library and I would like to check which the policy regarding licensing on > >> /usr/src code. The optimized math code is licensed on Apache-2 and afaik > >> it should be compatible with FreeBSD BDS license, is there anything > >> impending to use the code as-is on msum? Or do I need to adjust and check > >> with author if the idea is re-license? > >> > >> [1] https://github.com/ARM-software/optimized-routines > > > > Are you asking only about the license's compatibility, or is you intent > > to contribute the ARM libm code to the FreeBSD project ? > > > > My intention is to contribute the ARM libm code to the FreeBSD msum library. The above URL seems to contain only single precision code, e.g., sinf(x). What benefit does this code have over the current implementations of these functions? Doesn't ARM support at least a double precision type? Why have an algorithms for single precision that differ from the algorithms at higher precision? -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon May 28 19:47:29 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04EF3F7C6B3 for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 19:47:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org) Received: from mail-qt0-x22b.google.com (mail-qt0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C0267ECDE for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 19:47:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org) Received: by mail-qt0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id f1-v6so16056038qtj.6 for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 12:47:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Mon, 28 May 2018 12:47:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.105] ([179.159.11.160]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id x14-v6sm3485185qtk.33.2018.05.28.12.47.25 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 May 2018 12:47:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Code with apache-2 on /usr/src To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org References: <20180528190444.GE3789@kib.kiev.ua> <20180528193506.GA76705@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Adhemerval Zanella Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFcVGkoBEADiQU2x/cBBmAVf5C2d1xgz6zCnlCefbqaflUBw4hB/bEME40QsrVzWZ5Nq 8kxkEczZzAOKkkvv4pRVLlLn/zDtFXhlcvQRJ3yFMGqzBjofucOrmdYkOGo0uCaoJKPT186L NWp53SACXguFJpnw4ODI64ziInzXQs/rUJqrFoVIlrPDmNv/LUv1OVPKz20ETjgfpg8MNwG6 iMizMefCl+RbtXbIEZ3TE/IaDT/jcOirjv96lBKrc/pAL0h/O71Kwbbp43fimW80GhjiaN2y WGByepnkAVP7FyNarhdDpJhoDmUk9yfwNuIuESaCQtfd3vgKKuo6grcKZ8bHy7IXX1XJj2X/ BgRVhVgMHAnDPFIkXtP+SiarkUaLjGzCz7XkUn4XAGDskBNfbizFqYUQCaL2FdbW3DeZqNIa nSzKAZK7Dm9+0VVSRZXP89w71Y7JUV56xL/PlOE+YKKFdEw+gQjQi0e+DZILAtFjJLoCrkEX w4LluMhYX/X8XP6/C3xW0yOZhvHYyn72sV4yJ1uyc/qz3OY32CRy+bwPzAMAkhdwcORA3JPb kPTlimhQqVgvca8m+MQ/JFZ6D+K7QPyvEv7bQ7M+IzFmTkOCwCJ3xqOD6GjX3aphk8Sr0dq3 4Awlf5xFDAG8dn8Uuutb7naGBd/fEv6t8dfkNyzj6yvc4jpVxwARAQABzUlBZGhlbWVydmFs IFphbmVsbGEgTmV0dG8gKExpbmFybyBWUE4gS2V5KSA8YWRoZW1lcnZhbC56YW5lbGxhQGxp bmFyby5vcmc+wsF3BBMBCAAhBQJXFRpKAhsDBQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYCAwEAAh4BAheAAAoJ EKqx7BSnlIjv0e8P/1YOYoNkvJ+AJcNUaM5a2SA9oAKjSJ/M/EN4Id5Ow41ZJS4lUA0apSXW NjQg3VeVc2RiHab2LIB4MxdJhaWTuzfLkYnBeoy4u6njYcaoSwf3g9dSsvsl3mhtuzm6aXFH /Qsauav77enJh99tI4T+58rp0EuLhDsQbnBic/ukYNv7sQV8dy9KxA54yLnYUFqH6pfH8Lly sTVAMyi5Fg5O5/hVV+Z0Kpr+ZocC1YFJkTsNLAW5EIYSP9ftniqaVsim7MNmodv/zqK0IyDB GLLH1kjhvb5+6ySGlWbMTomt/or/uvMgulz0bRS+LUyOmlfXDdT+t38VPKBBVwFMarNuREU2 69M3a3jdTfScboDd2ck1u7l+QbaGoHZQ8ZNUrzgObltjohiIsazqkgYDQzXIMrD9H19E+8fw kCNUlXxjEgH/Kg8DlpoYJXSJCX0fjMWfXywL6ZXc2xyG/hbl5hvsLNmqDpLpc1CfKcA0BkK+ k8R57fr91mTCppSwwKJYO9T+8J+o4ho/CJnK/jBy1pWKMYJPvvrpdBCWq3MfzVpXYdahRKHI ypk8m4QlRlbOXWJ3TDd/SKNfSSrWgwRSg7XCjSlR7PNzNFXTULLB34sZhjrN6Q8NQZsZnMNs TX8nlGOVrKolnQPjKCLwCyu8PhllU8OwbSMKskcD1PSkG6h3r0AqzsFNBFcVGkoBEACgAdbR Ck+fsfOVwT8zowMiL3l9a2DP3Eeak23ifdZG+8Avb/SImpv0UMSbRfnw/N81IWwlbjkjbGTu oT37iZHLRwYUFmA8fZX0wNDNKQUUTjN6XalJmvhdz9l71H3WnE0wneEM5ahu5V1L1utUWTyh VUwzX1lwJeV3vyrNgI1kYOaeuNVvq7npNR6t6XxEpqPsNc6O77I12XELic2+36YibyqlTJIQ V1SZEbIy26AbC2zH9WqaKyGyQnr/IPbTJ2Lv0dM3RaXoVf+CeK7gB2B+w1hZummD21c1Laua +VIMPCUQ+EM8W9EtX+0iJXxI+wsztLT6vltQcm+5Q7tY+HFUucizJkAOAz98YFucwKefbkTp eKvCfCwiM1bGatZEFFKIlvJ2QNMQNiUrqJBlW9nZp/k7pbG3oStOjvawD9ZbP9e0fnlWJIsj 6c7pX354Yi7kxIk/6gREidHLLqEb/otuwt1aoMPg97iUgDV5mlNef77lWE8vxmlY0FBWIXuZ yv0XYxf1WF6dRizwFFbxvUZzIJp3spAao7jLsQj1DbD2s5+S1BW09A0mI/1DjB6EhNN+4bDB SJCOv/ReK3tFJXuj/HbyDrOdoMt8aIFbe7YFLEExHpSk+HgN05Lg5TyTro8oW7TSMTk+8a5M kzaH4UGXTTBDP/g5cfL3RFPl79ubXwARAQABwsFfBBgBCAAJBQJXFRpKAhsMAAoJEKqx7BSn lIjvI/8P/jg0jl4Tbvg3B5kT6PxJOXHYu9OoyaHLcay6Cd+ZrOd1VQQCbOcgLFbf4Yr+rE9l mYsY67AUgq2QKmVVbn9pjvGsEaz8UmfDnz5epUhDxC6yRRvY4hreMXZhPZ1pbMa6A0a/WOSt AgFj5V6Z4dXGTM/lNManr0HjXxbUYv2WfbNt3/07Db9T+GZkpUotC6iknsTA4rJi6u2ls0W9 1UIvW4o01vb4nZRCj4rni0g6eWoQCGoVDk/xFfy7ZliR5B+3Z3EWRJcQskip/QAHjbLa3pml xAZ484fVxgeESOoaeC9TiBIp0NfH8akWOI0HpBCiBD5xaCTvR7ujUWMvhsX2n881r/hNlR9g fcE6q00qHSPAEgGr1bnFv74/1vbKtjeXLCcRKk3Ulw0bY1OoDxWQr86T2fZGJ/HIZuVVBf3+ gaYJF92GXFynHnea14nFFuFgOni0Mi1zDxYH/8yGGBXvo14KWd8JOW0NJPaCDFJkdS5hu0VY 7vJwKcyHJGxsCLU+Et0mryX8qZwqibJIzu7kUJQdQDljbRPDFd/xmGUFCQiQAncSilYOcxNU EMVCXPAQTteqkvA+gNqSaK1NM9tY0eQ4iJpo+aoX8HAcn4sZzt2pfUB9vQMTBJ2d4+m/qO6+ cFTAceXmIoFsN8+gFN3i8Is3u12u8xGudcBPvpoy4OoG Message-ID: <1c09023e-9bf5-d23a-dedc-1c4f4706bbde@linaro.org> Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 16:47:21 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20180528193506.GA76705@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 19:47:29 -0000 On 28/05/2018 16:35, Steve Kargl wrote: > On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 04:08:49PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: >> >> On 28/05/2018 16:04, Konstantin Belousov wrote: >>> On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 03:33:47PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I am evaluating adding the ARM optimized math routines [1] on FreeBSD msum >>>> library and I would like to check which the policy regarding licensing on >>>> /usr/src code. The optimized math code is licensed on Apache-2 and afaik >>>> it should be compatible with FreeBSD BDS license, is there anything >>>> impending to use the code as-is on msum? Or do I need to adjust and check >>>> with author if the idea is re-license? >>>> >>>> [1] https://github.com/ARM-software/optimized-routines >>> >>> Are you asking only about the license's compatibility, or is you intent >>> to contribute the ARM libm code to the FreeBSD project ? >>> >> >> My intention is to contribute the ARM libm code to the FreeBSD msum library. > > The above URL seems to contain only single precision code, > e.g., sinf(x). What benefit does this code have over the > current implementations of these functions? Doesn't ARM > support at least a double precision type? Yes, the github repository only contains single precision implementation and at the moment my idea is to contribute with expf, powf, logf, expf2, and log2f. All these implementation are faster than current FreeBSD ones (I plan to dig into with more details in patch proposal). > Why have an > algorithms for single precision that differ from the > algorithms at higher precision? > Are you asking why use an implementation for single precision and another for double and/or long double (if the case) or why to use a different mathematical method for each one? For later, my understanding is exactly precision requires different mathematical analysis for the latency and error tradeoff. I do not have much experience on msum implementation for double precision, neither I experimented used them for double precision so I can' t really tell why it can' t be used for double precision as well (my wild guess is these float implementation were not tuned for double precision regarding error bounds). As a side note, the same implementations were recent pushed on GLIBC [1] and GLIBC also used similar implementation from Sun. [1] https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon May 28 20:21:19 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 645F4F8CD56 for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 20:21:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E48DF82A3E; Mon, 28 May 2018 20:21:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w4SKLHup077268 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 28 May 2018 13:21:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w4SKLHkV077267; Mon, 28 May 2018 13:21:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 13:21:17 -0700 From: Steve Kargl To: Adhemerval Zanella Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Code with apache-2 on /usr/src Message-ID: <20180528202117.GA77184@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20180528190444.GE3789@kib.kiev.ua> <20180528193506.GA76705@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1c09023e-9bf5-d23a-dedc-1c4f4706bbde@linaro.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1c09023e-9bf5-d23a-dedc-1c4f4706bbde@linaro.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.2 (2017-12-15) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 20:21:19 -0000 On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 04:47:21PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: > > > On 28/05/2018 16:35, Steve Kargl wrote: > > > > The above URL seems to contain only single precision code, > > e.g., sinf(x). What benefit does this code have over the > > current implementations of these functions? Doesn't ARM > > support at least a double precision type? > > Yes, the github repository only contains single precision implementation and > at the moment my idea is to contribute with expf, powf, logf, expf2, and > log2f. All these implementation are faster than current FreeBSD ones (I > plan to dig into with more details in patch proposal). > > > Why have an > > algorithms for single precision that differ from the > > algorithms at higher precision? > > > > Are you asking why use an implementation for single precision and another > for double and/or long double (if the case) or why to use a different > mathematical method for each one? Your question don't make any sense to me. My question means that if you only have ARM-specific single precision routines, then the underlying algorithms for those SP routines will by definition be different than the double and long double precision routines. One can do for example 'diff -u s_sinf.c s_sin.c' while debugging. The difference that one sees are usually restricted to different numerical literal constants and the number of terms in polynomial approximations. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon May 28 20:47:17 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 496EBEEE011 for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 20:47:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org) Received: from mail-qt0-x243.google.com (mail-qt0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE3598541A for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 20:47:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org) Received: by mail-qt0-x243.google.com with SMTP id h5-v6so8191912qtm.13 for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 13:47:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Mon, 28 May 2018 13:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.105] ([179.159.11.160]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id m6-v6sm10139243qkh.82.2018.05.28.13.47.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 May 2018 13:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Code with apache-2 on /usr/src To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org References: <20180528190444.GE3789@kib.kiev.ua> <20180528193506.GA76705@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1c09023e-9bf5-d23a-dedc-1c4f4706bbde@linaro.org> <20180528202117.GA77184@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Adhemerval Zanella Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFcVGkoBEADiQU2x/cBBmAVf5C2d1xgz6zCnlCefbqaflUBw4hB/bEME40QsrVzWZ5Nq 8kxkEczZzAOKkkvv4pRVLlLn/zDtFXhlcvQRJ3yFMGqzBjofucOrmdYkOGo0uCaoJKPT186L NWp53SACXguFJpnw4ODI64ziInzXQs/rUJqrFoVIlrPDmNv/LUv1OVPKz20ETjgfpg8MNwG6 iMizMefCl+RbtXbIEZ3TE/IaDT/jcOirjv96lBKrc/pAL0h/O71Kwbbp43fimW80GhjiaN2y WGByepnkAVP7FyNarhdDpJhoDmUk9yfwNuIuESaCQtfd3vgKKuo6grcKZ8bHy7IXX1XJj2X/ BgRVhVgMHAnDPFIkXtP+SiarkUaLjGzCz7XkUn4XAGDskBNfbizFqYUQCaL2FdbW3DeZqNIa nSzKAZK7Dm9+0VVSRZXP89w71Y7JUV56xL/PlOE+YKKFdEw+gQjQi0e+DZILAtFjJLoCrkEX w4LluMhYX/X8XP6/C3xW0yOZhvHYyn72sV4yJ1uyc/qz3OY32CRy+bwPzAMAkhdwcORA3JPb kPTlimhQqVgvca8m+MQ/JFZ6D+K7QPyvEv7bQ7M+IzFmTkOCwCJ3xqOD6GjX3aphk8Sr0dq3 4Awlf5xFDAG8dn8Uuutb7naGBd/fEv6t8dfkNyzj6yvc4jpVxwARAQABzUlBZGhlbWVydmFs IFphbmVsbGEgTmV0dG8gKExpbmFybyBWUE4gS2V5KSA8YWRoZW1lcnZhbC56YW5lbGxhQGxp bmFyby5vcmc+wsF3BBMBCAAhBQJXFRpKAhsDBQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYCAwEAAh4BAheAAAoJ EKqx7BSnlIjv0e8P/1YOYoNkvJ+AJcNUaM5a2SA9oAKjSJ/M/EN4Id5Ow41ZJS4lUA0apSXW NjQg3VeVc2RiHab2LIB4MxdJhaWTuzfLkYnBeoy4u6njYcaoSwf3g9dSsvsl3mhtuzm6aXFH /Qsauav77enJh99tI4T+58rp0EuLhDsQbnBic/ukYNv7sQV8dy9KxA54yLnYUFqH6pfH8Lly sTVAMyi5Fg5O5/hVV+Z0Kpr+ZocC1YFJkTsNLAW5EIYSP9ftniqaVsim7MNmodv/zqK0IyDB GLLH1kjhvb5+6ySGlWbMTomt/or/uvMgulz0bRS+LUyOmlfXDdT+t38VPKBBVwFMarNuREU2 69M3a3jdTfScboDd2ck1u7l+QbaGoHZQ8ZNUrzgObltjohiIsazqkgYDQzXIMrD9H19E+8fw kCNUlXxjEgH/Kg8DlpoYJXSJCX0fjMWfXywL6ZXc2xyG/hbl5hvsLNmqDpLpc1CfKcA0BkK+ k8R57fr91mTCppSwwKJYO9T+8J+o4ho/CJnK/jBy1pWKMYJPvvrpdBCWq3MfzVpXYdahRKHI ypk8m4QlRlbOXWJ3TDd/SKNfSSrWgwRSg7XCjSlR7PNzNFXTULLB34sZhjrN6Q8NQZsZnMNs TX8nlGOVrKolnQPjKCLwCyu8PhllU8OwbSMKskcD1PSkG6h3r0AqzsFNBFcVGkoBEACgAdbR Ck+fsfOVwT8zowMiL3l9a2DP3Eeak23ifdZG+8Avb/SImpv0UMSbRfnw/N81IWwlbjkjbGTu oT37iZHLRwYUFmA8fZX0wNDNKQUUTjN6XalJmvhdz9l71H3WnE0wneEM5ahu5V1L1utUWTyh VUwzX1lwJeV3vyrNgI1kYOaeuNVvq7npNR6t6XxEpqPsNc6O77I12XELic2+36YibyqlTJIQ V1SZEbIy26AbC2zH9WqaKyGyQnr/IPbTJ2Lv0dM3RaXoVf+CeK7gB2B+w1hZummD21c1Laua +VIMPCUQ+EM8W9EtX+0iJXxI+wsztLT6vltQcm+5Q7tY+HFUucizJkAOAz98YFucwKefbkTp eKvCfCwiM1bGatZEFFKIlvJ2QNMQNiUrqJBlW9nZp/k7pbG3oStOjvawD9ZbP9e0fnlWJIsj 6c7pX354Yi7kxIk/6gREidHLLqEb/otuwt1aoMPg97iUgDV5mlNef77lWE8vxmlY0FBWIXuZ yv0XYxf1WF6dRizwFFbxvUZzIJp3spAao7jLsQj1DbD2s5+S1BW09A0mI/1DjB6EhNN+4bDB SJCOv/ReK3tFJXuj/HbyDrOdoMt8aIFbe7YFLEExHpSk+HgN05Lg5TyTro8oW7TSMTk+8a5M kzaH4UGXTTBDP/g5cfL3RFPl79ubXwARAQABwsFfBBgBCAAJBQJXFRpKAhsMAAoJEKqx7BSn lIjvI/8P/jg0jl4Tbvg3B5kT6PxJOXHYu9OoyaHLcay6Cd+ZrOd1VQQCbOcgLFbf4Yr+rE9l mYsY67AUgq2QKmVVbn9pjvGsEaz8UmfDnz5epUhDxC6yRRvY4hreMXZhPZ1pbMa6A0a/WOSt AgFj5V6Z4dXGTM/lNManr0HjXxbUYv2WfbNt3/07Db9T+GZkpUotC6iknsTA4rJi6u2ls0W9 1UIvW4o01vb4nZRCj4rni0g6eWoQCGoVDk/xFfy7ZliR5B+3Z3EWRJcQskip/QAHjbLa3pml xAZ484fVxgeESOoaeC9TiBIp0NfH8akWOI0HpBCiBD5xaCTvR7ujUWMvhsX2n881r/hNlR9g fcE6q00qHSPAEgGr1bnFv74/1vbKtjeXLCcRKk3Ulw0bY1OoDxWQr86T2fZGJ/HIZuVVBf3+ gaYJF92GXFynHnea14nFFuFgOni0Mi1zDxYH/8yGGBXvo14KWd8JOW0NJPaCDFJkdS5hu0VY 7vJwKcyHJGxsCLU+Et0mryX8qZwqibJIzu7kUJQdQDljbRPDFd/xmGUFCQiQAncSilYOcxNU EMVCXPAQTteqkvA+gNqSaK1NM9tY0eQ4iJpo+aoX8HAcn4sZzt2pfUB9vQMTBJ2d4+m/qO6+ cFTAceXmIoFsN8+gFN3i8Is3u12u8xGudcBPvpoy4OoG Message-ID: <72101038-9e89-3f23-ab67-1c97b2a89803@linaro.org> Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 17:47:09 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20180528202117.GA77184@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 20:47:17 -0000 On 28/05/2018 17:21, Steve Kargl wrote: > On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 04:47:21PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: >> >> >> On 28/05/2018 16:35, Steve Kargl wrote: >>> >>> The above URL seems to contain only single precision code, >>> e.g., sinf(x). What benefit does this code have over the >>> current implementations of these functions? Doesn't ARM >>> support at least a double precision type? >> >> Yes, the github repository only contains single precision implementation and >> at the moment my idea is to contribute with expf, powf, logf, expf2, and >> log2f. All these implementation are faster than current FreeBSD ones (I >> plan to dig into with more details in patch proposal). >> >>> Why have an >>> algorithms for single precision that differ from the >>> algorithms at higher precision? >>> >> >> Are you asking why use an implementation for single precision and another >> for double and/or long double (if the case) or why to use a different >> mathematical method for each one? > > Your question don't make any sense to me. My question means that > if you only have ARM-specific single precision routines, then the > underlying algorithms for those SP routines will by definition be > different than the double and long double precision routines. One > can do for example 'diff -u s_sinf.c s_sin.c' while debugging. > The difference that one sees are usually restricted to different > numerical literal constants and the number of terms in polynomial > approximations. > Sorry if I was not clear, I did not fully get your question. Also for avoid further misconceptions, this new implementation is *not* ARM-specific, but rather a different one which is faster than current for FreeBSD (in fact faster on x86 as well). And is having a different algorithm for single and double prevision a blocker for a future patch proposal? From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon May 28 21:09:09 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1BD0EF0C66 for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 21:09:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C5B2879FE; Mon, 28 May 2018 21:09:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w4SL9749077542 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 28 May 2018 14:09:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w4SL97Lf077541; Mon, 28 May 2018 14:09:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 14:09:07 -0700 From: Steve Kargl To: Adhemerval Zanella Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Code with apache-2 on /usr/src Message-ID: <20180528210907.GA77475@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20180528190444.GE3789@kib.kiev.ua> <20180528193506.GA76705@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1c09023e-9bf5-d23a-dedc-1c4f4706bbde@linaro.org> <20180528202117.GA77184@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <72101038-9e89-3f23-ab67-1c97b2a89803@linaro.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <72101038-9e89-3f23-ab67-1c97b2a89803@linaro.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.2 (2017-12-15) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 21:09:09 -0000 On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 05:47:09PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: > > On 28/05/2018 17:21, Steve Kargl wrote: > > On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 04:47:21PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: > >> > >> On 28/05/2018 16:35, Steve Kargl wrote: > >>> > >>> The above URL seems to contain only single precision code, > >>> e.g., sinf(x). What benefit does this code have over the > >>> current implementations of these functions? Doesn't ARM > >>> support at least a double precision type? > >> > >> Yes, the github repository only contains single precision implementation and > >> at the moment my idea is to contribute with expf, powf, logf, expf2, and > >> log2f. All these implementation are faster than current FreeBSD ones (I > >> plan to dig into with more details in patch proposal). > >> > >>> Why have an > >>> algorithms for single precision that differ from the > >>> algorithms at higher precision? > >>> > >> > >> Are you asking why use an implementation for single precision and another > >> for double and/or long double (if the case) or why to use a different > >> mathematical method for each one? > > > > Your question don't make any sense to me. My question means that > > if you only have ARM-specific single precision routines, then the > > underlying algorithms for those SP routines will by definition be > > different than the double and long double precision routines. One > > can do for example 'diff -u s_sinf.c s_sin.c' while debugging. > > The difference that one sees are usually restricted to different > > numerical literal constants and the number of terms in polynomial > > approximations. > > > > Sorry if I was not clear, I did not fully get your question. Also for avoid > further misconceptions, this new implementation is *not* ARM-specific, but > rather a different one which is faster than current for FreeBSD (in fact > faster on x86 as well). > > And is having a different algorithm for single and double prevision > a blocker for a future patch proposal? No. Given the comment in sinf.c that max ULP is 0.56072, I do note that the current implementation of sinf in lib/msun is more accurate (for interesting values of x). I also looked at single/s_sincosf.c. It is rather dubious to have 80+ digit numerical constants for a float, which at most has 9 relevant digits. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon May 28 21:12:20 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95CDFEF137D for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 21:12:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org) Received: from mail-qt0-x242.google.com (mail-qt0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1667488088 for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 21:12:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org) Received: by mail-qt0-x242.google.com with SMTP id q6-v6so16277422qtn.3 for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 14:12:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Mon, 28 May 2018 14:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.105] ([179.159.11.160]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id e26-v6sm10368850qtp.76.2018.05.28.14.12.17 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 May 2018 14:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Code with apache-2 on /usr/src To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org References: <20180528190444.GE3789@kib.kiev.ua> <20180528193506.GA76705@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1c09023e-9bf5-d23a-dedc-1c4f4706bbde@linaro.org> <20180528202117.GA77184@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <72101038-9e89-3f23-ab67-1c97b2a89803@linaro.org> <20180528210907.GA77475@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Adhemerval Zanella Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFcVGkoBEADiQU2x/cBBmAVf5C2d1xgz6zCnlCefbqaflUBw4hB/bEME40QsrVzWZ5Nq 8kxkEczZzAOKkkvv4pRVLlLn/zDtFXhlcvQRJ3yFMGqzBjofucOrmdYkOGo0uCaoJKPT186L NWp53SACXguFJpnw4ODI64ziInzXQs/rUJqrFoVIlrPDmNv/LUv1OVPKz20ETjgfpg8MNwG6 iMizMefCl+RbtXbIEZ3TE/IaDT/jcOirjv96lBKrc/pAL0h/O71Kwbbp43fimW80GhjiaN2y WGByepnkAVP7FyNarhdDpJhoDmUk9yfwNuIuESaCQtfd3vgKKuo6grcKZ8bHy7IXX1XJj2X/ BgRVhVgMHAnDPFIkXtP+SiarkUaLjGzCz7XkUn4XAGDskBNfbizFqYUQCaL2FdbW3DeZqNIa nSzKAZK7Dm9+0VVSRZXP89w71Y7JUV56xL/PlOE+YKKFdEw+gQjQi0e+DZILAtFjJLoCrkEX w4LluMhYX/X8XP6/C3xW0yOZhvHYyn72sV4yJ1uyc/qz3OY32CRy+bwPzAMAkhdwcORA3JPb kPTlimhQqVgvca8m+MQ/JFZ6D+K7QPyvEv7bQ7M+IzFmTkOCwCJ3xqOD6GjX3aphk8Sr0dq3 4Awlf5xFDAG8dn8Uuutb7naGBd/fEv6t8dfkNyzj6yvc4jpVxwARAQABzUlBZGhlbWVydmFs IFphbmVsbGEgTmV0dG8gKExpbmFybyBWUE4gS2V5KSA8YWRoZW1lcnZhbC56YW5lbGxhQGxp bmFyby5vcmc+wsF3BBMBCAAhBQJXFRpKAhsDBQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYCAwEAAh4BAheAAAoJ EKqx7BSnlIjv0e8P/1YOYoNkvJ+AJcNUaM5a2SA9oAKjSJ/M/EN4Id5Ow41ZJS4lUA0apSXW NjQg3VeVc2RiHab2LIB4MxdJhaWTuzfLkYnBeoy4u6njYcaoSwf3g9dSsvsl3mhtuzm6aXFH /Qsauav77enJh99tI4T+58rp0EuLhDsQbnBic/ukYNv7sQV8dy9KxA54yLnYUFqH6pfH8Lly sTVAMyi5Fg5O5/hVV+Z0Kpr+ZocC1YFJkTsNLAW5EIYSP9ftniqaVsim7MNmodv/zqK0IyDB GLLH1kjhvb5+6ySGlWbMTomt/or/uvMgulz0bRS+LUyOmlfXDdT+t38VPKBBVwFMarNuREU2 69M3a3jdTfScboDd2ck1u7l+QbaGoHZQ8ZNUrzgObltjohiIsazqkgYDQzXIMrD9H19E+8fw kCNUlXxjEgH/Kg8DlpoYJXSJCX0fjMWfXywL6ZXc2xyG/hbl5hvsLNmqDpLpc1CfKcA0BkK+ k8R57fr91mTCppSwwKJYO9T+8J+o4ho/CJnK/jBy1pWKMYJPvvrpdBCWq3MfzVpXYdahRKHI ypk8m4QlRlbOXWJ3TDd/SKNfSSrWgwRSg7XCjSlR7PNzNFXTULLB34sZhjrN6Q8NQZsZnMNs TX8nlGOVrKolnQPjKCLwCyu8PhllU8OwbSMKskcD1PSkG6h3r0AqzsFNBFcVGkoBEACgAdbR Ck+fsfOVwT8zowMiL3l9a2DP3Eeak23ifdZG+8Avb/SImpv0UMSbRfnw/N81IWwlbjkjbGTu oT37iZHLRwYUFmA8fZX0wNDNKQUUTjN6XalJmvhdz9l71H3WnE0wneEM5ahu5V1L1utUWTyh VUwzX1lwJeV3vyrNgI1kYOaeuNVvq7npNR6t6XxEpqPsNc6O77I12XELic2+36YibyqlTJIQ V1SZEbIy26AbC2zH9WqaKyGyQnr/IPbTJ2Lv0dM3RaXoVf+CeK7gB2B+w1hZummD21c1Laua +VIMPCUQ+EM8W9EtX+0iJXxI+wsztLT6vltQcm+5Q7tY+HFUucizJkAOAz98YFucwKefbkTp eKvCfCwiM1bGatZEFFKIlvJ2QNMQNiUrqJBlW9nZp/k7pbG3oStOjvawD9ZbP9e0fnlWJIsj 6c7pX354Yi7kxIk/6gREidHLLqEb/otuwt1aoMPg97iUgDV5mlNef77lWE8vxmlY0FBWIXuZ yv0XYxf1WF6dRizwFFbxvUZzIJp3spAao7jLsQj1DbD2s5+S1BW09A0mI/1DjB6EhNN+4bDB SJCOv/ReK3tFJXuj/HbyDrOdoMt8aIFbe7YFLEExHpSk+HgN05Lg5TyTro8oW7TSMTk+8a5M kzaH4UGXTTBDP/g5cfL3RFPl79ubXwARAQABwsFfBBgBCAAJBQJXFRpKAhsMAAoJEKqx7BSn lIjvI/8P/jg0jl4Tbvg3B5kT6PxJOXHYu9OoyaHLcay6Cd+ZrOd1VQQCbOcgLFbf4Yr+rE9l mYsY67AUgq2QKmVVbn9pjvGsEaz8UmfDnz5epUhDxC6yRRvY4hreMXZhPZ1pbMa6A0a/WOSt AgFj5V6Z4dXGTM/lNManr0HjXxbUYv2WfbNt3/07Db9T+GZkpUotC6iknsTA4rJi6u2ls0W9 1UIvW4o01vb4nZRCj4rni0g6eWoQCGoVDk/xFfy7ZliR5B+3Z3EWRJcQskip/QAHjbLa3pml xAZ484fVxgeESOoaeC9TiBIp0NfH8akWOI0HpBCiBD5xaCTvR7ujUWMvhsX2n881r/hNlR9g fcE6q00qHSPAEgGr1bnFv74/1vbKtjeXLCcRKk3Ulw0bY1OoDxWQr86T2fZGJ/HIZuVVBf3+ gaYJF92GXFynHnea14nFFuFgOni0Mi1zDxYH/8yGGBXvo14KWd8JOW0NJPaCDFJkdS5hu0VY 7vJwKcyHJGxsCLU+Et0mryX8qZwqibJIzu7kUJQdQDljbRPDFd/xmGUFCQiQAncSilYOcxNU EMVCXPAQTteqkvA+gNqSaK1NM9tY0eQ4iJpo+aoX8HAcn4sZzt2pfUB9vQMTBJ2d4+m/qO6+ cFTAceXmIoFsN8+gFN3i8Is3u12u8xGudcBPvpoy4OoG Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 18:12:13 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20180528210907.GA77475@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 21:12:20 -0000 On 28/05/2018 18:09, Steve Kargl wrote: > On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 05:47:09PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: >> >> On 28/05/2018 17:21, Steve Kargl wrote: >>> On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 04:47:21PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: >>>> >>>> On 28/05/2018 16:35, Steve Kargl wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The above URL seems to contain only single precision code, >>>>> e.g., sinf(x). What benefit does this code have over the >>>>> current implementations of these functions? Doesn't ARM >>>>> support at least a double precision type? >>>> >>>> Yes, the github repository only contains single precision implementation and >>>> at the moment my idea is to contribute with expf, powf, logf, expf2, and >>>> log2f. All these implementation are faster than current FreeBSD ones (I >>>> plan to dig into with more details in patch proposal). >>>> >>>>> Why have an >>>>> algorithms for single precision that differ from the >>>>> algorithms at higher precision? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Are you asking why use an implementation for single precision and another >>>> for double and/or long double (if the case) or why to use a different >>>> mathematical method for each one? >>> >>> Your question don't make any sense to me. My question means that >>> if you only have ARM-specific single precision routines, then the >>> underlying algorithms for those SP routines will by definition be >>> different than the double and long double precision routines. One >>> can do for example 'diff -u s_sinf.c s_sin.c' while debugging. >>> The difference that one sees are usually restricted to different >>> numerical literal constants and the number of terms in polynomial >>> approximations. >>> >> >> Sorry if I was not clear, I did not fully get your question. Also for avoid >> further misconceptions, this new implementation is *not* ARM-specific, but >> rather a different one which is faster than current for FreeBSD (in fact >> faster on x86 as well). >> >> And is having a different algorithm for single and double prevision >> a blocker for a future patch proposal? > > No. Given the comment in sinf.c that max ULP is 0.56072, I do note that > the current implementation of sinf in lib/msun is more accurate (for > interesting values of x). I also looked at single/s_sincosf.c. It is > rather dubious to have 80+ digit numerical constants for a float, which > at most has 9 relevant digits. > Also keep in mind my initial idea is to propose patches only to expf, powf, logf, expf2, and log2f. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon May 28 22:18:21 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEBE5EF9563 for ; Mon, 28 May 2018 22:18:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460A78E8E4; Mon, 28 May 2018 22:18:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w4SMIJ5r078144 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 28 May 2018 15:18:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w4SMIJwu078143; Mon, 28 May 2018 15:18:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 15:18:19 -0700 From: Steve Kargl To: Adhemerval Zanella Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Code with apache-2 on /usr/src Message-ID: <20180528221819.GA77894@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20180528190444.GE3789@kib.kiev.ua> <20180528193506.GA76705@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1c09023e-9bf5-d23a-dedc-1c4f4706bbde@linaro.org> <20180528202117.GA77184@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <72101038-9e89-3f23-ab67-1c97b2a89803@linaro.org> <20180528210907.GA77475@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.2 (2017-12-15) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 22:18:21 -0000 On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 06:12:13PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: > > >> And is having a different algorithm for single and double prevision > >> a blocker for a future patch proposal? > > > > No. Given the comment in sinf.c that max ULP is 0.56072, I do note that > > the current implementation of sinf in lib/msun is more accurate (for > > interesting values of x). I also looked at single/s_sincosf.c. It is > > rather dubious to have 80+ digit numerical constants for a float, which > > at most has 9 relevant digits. > > > > Also keep in mind my initial idea is to propose patches only to expf, powf, > logf, expf2, and log2f. OK, so I peeked at expf. Comment claims max ulp of 0.502. Exhaustive testing for normal numbers in relevent range for the current implementation of expf(x) shows Interval tested: [-18,88.72] ULP: 0.90951, x = -5.19804668e+00f, /* 0xc0a65666 */ flt = 5.52735012e-03f, /* 0x3bb51ec6 */ dbl = 5.5273505437686398e-03, /* 0x3f76a3d8, 0xdd1aae8e */ But, then one looks at implementation details. msun's current implementation is written in terms of single precision; while the routine you're suggesting is written in terms of double_t. So, achieving 0.502 ULP is due to having 53-bits in intermediate results. It appears that the algorithm of the suggested code cannot easily be generalized to double and long double without implementing a multiple-precision routines. Note, years ago, I submitted implementations for expf, exp, ld80/expl, ld128/expl, logf, log, ld80/logl, and ld128/logl based on papers by PTP Tang [1,2]. My versions for single and double precision were not adopted even though these had better accuracy. Either Bruce Evans improved or with Bruce's help I improved the ld80 and ld128 routines, which were added to msun. I know Bruce fixed minor issues with the single and double precision routines, but he has not submitted patches. 1. PTP Tang, "Table-driven implementation of the exponential function in IEEE floating-point arithmetic," ACM Trans. Math. Soft., 15, 144-157 (1989). 2. PTP Tang, "Table-driven implementation of the logarithm function in IEEE floating-point arithmetic," ACM Trans. Math. Soft., 16, 378-400 (1990). -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue May 29 12:37:15 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A5FCF790EA for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 12:37:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org) Received: from mail-qt0-x22d.google.com (mail-qt0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C98B887A65 for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 12:37:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org) Received: by mail-qt0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id f13-v6so18350025qtp.10 for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 05:37:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linaro.org; s=google; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; 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Tue, 29 May 2018 05:37:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.105] ([179.159.11.160]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id v50-v6sm6105178qta.34.2018.05.29.05.37.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 29 May 2018 05:37:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Code with apache-2 on /usr/src To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org References: <20180528190444.GE3789@kib.kiev.ua> <20180528193506.GA76705@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1c09023e-9bf5-d23a-dedc-1c4f4706bbde@linaro.org> <20180528202117.GA77184@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <72101038-9e89-3f23-ab67-1c97b2a89803@linaro.org> <20180528210907.GA77475@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20180528221819.GA77894@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Adhemerval Zanella Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFcVGkoBEADiQU2x/cBBmAVf5C2d1xgz6zCnlCefbqaflUBw4hB/bEME40QsrVzWZ5Nq 8kxkEczZzAOKkkvv4pRVLlLn/zDtFXhlcvQRJ3yFMGqzBjofucOrmdYkOGo0uCaoJKPT186L NWp53SACXguFJpnw4ODI64ziInzXQs/rUJqrFoVIlrPDmNv/LUv1OVPKz20ETjgfpg8MNwG6 iMizMefCl+RbtXbIEZ3TE/IaDT/jcOirjv96lBKrc/pAL0h/O71Kwbbp43fimW80GhjiaN2y WGByepnkAVP7FyNarhdDpJhoDmUk9yfwNuIuESaCQtfd3vgKKuo6grcKZ8bHy7IXX1XJj2X/ BgRVhVgMHAnDPFIkXtP+SiarkUaLjGzCz7XkUn4XAGDskBNfbizFqYUQCaL2FdbW3DeZqNIa nSzKAZK7Dm9+0VVSRZXP89w71Y7JUV56xL/PlOE+YKKFdEw+gQjQi0e+DZILAtFjJLoCrkEX w4LluMhYX/X8XP6/C3xW0yOZhvHYyn72sV4yJ1uyc/qz3OY32CRy+bwPzAMAkhdwcORA3JPb kPTlimhQqVgvca8m+MQ/JFZ6D+K7QPyvEv7bQ7M+IzFmTkOCwCJ3xqOD6GjX3aphk8Sr0dq3 4Awlf5xFDAG8dn8Uuutb7naGBd/fEv6t8dfkNyzj6yvc4jpVxwARAQABzUlBZGhlbWVydmFs IFphbmVsbGEgTmV0dG8gKExpbmFybyBWUE4gS2V5KSA8YWRoZW1lcnZhbC56YW5lbGxhQGxp bmFyby5vcmc+wsF3BBMBCAAhBQJXFRpKAhsDBQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYCAwEAAh4BAheAAAoJ EKqx7BSnlIjv0e8P/1YOYoNkvJ+AJcNUaM5a2SA9oAKjSJ/M/EN4Id5Ow41ZJS4lUA0apSXW NjQg3VeVc2RiHab2LIB4MxdJhaWTuzfLkYnBeoy4u6njYcaoSwf3g9dSsvsl3mhtuzm6aXFH /Qsauav77enJh99tI4T+58rp0EuLhDsQbnBic/ukYNv7sQV8dy9KxA54yLnYUFqH6pfH8Lly sTVAMyi5Fg5O5/hVV+Z0Kpr+ZocC1YFJkTsNLAW5EIYSP9ftniqaVsim7MNmodv/zqK0IyDB GLLH1kjhvb5+6ySGlWbMTomt/or/uvMgulz0bRS+LUyOmlfXDdT+t38VPKBBVwFMarNuREU2 69M3a3jdTfScboDd2ck1u7l+QbaGoHZQ8ZNUrzgObltjohiIsazqkgYDQzXIMrD9H19E+8fw kCNUlXxjEgH/Kg8DlpoYJXSJCX0fjMWfXywL6ZXc2xyG/hbl5hvsLNmqDpLpc1CfKcA0BkK+ k8R57fr91mTCppSwwKJYO9T+8J+o4ho/CJnK/jBy1pWKMYJPvvrpdBCWq3MfzVpXYdahRKHI ypk8m4QlRlbOXWJ3TDd/SKNfSSrWgwRSg7XCjSlR7PNzNFXTULLB34sZhjrN6Q8NQZsZnMNs TX8nlGOVrKolnQPjKCLwCyu8PhllU8OwbSMKskcD1PSkG6h3r0AqzsFNBFcVGkoBEACgAdbR Ck+fsfOVwT8zowMiL3l9a2DP3Eeak23ifdZG+8Avb/SImpv0UMSbRfnw/N81IWwlbjkjbGTu oT37iZHLRwYUFmA8fZX0wNDNKQUUTjN6XalJmvhdz9l71H3WnE0wneEM5ahu5V1L1utUWTyh VUwzX1lwJeV3vyrNgI1kYOaeuNVvq7npNR6t6XxEpqPsNc6O77I12XELic2+36YibyqlTJIQ V1SZEbIy26AbC2zH9WqaKyGyQnr/IPbTJ2Lv0dM3RaXoVf+CeK7gB2B+w1hZummD21c1Laua +VIMPCUQ+EM8W9EtX+0iJXxI+wsztLT6vltQcm+5Q7tY+HFUucizJkAOAz98YFucwKefbkTp eKvCfCwiM1bGatZEFFKIlvJ2QNMQNiUrqJBlW9nZp/k7pbG3oStOjvawD9ZbP9e0fnlWJIsj 6c7pX354Yi7kxIk/6gREidHLLqEb/otuwt1aoMPg97iUgDV5mlNef77lWE8vxmlY0FBWIXuZ yv0XYxf1WF6dRizwFFbxvUZzIJp3spAao7jLsQj1DbD2s5+S1BW09A0mI/1DjB6EhNN+4bDB SJCOv/ReK3tFJXuj/HbyDrOdoMt8aIFbe7YFLEExHpSk+HgN05Lg5TyTro8oW7TSMTk+8a5M kzaH4UGXTTBDP/g5cfL3RFPl79ubXwARAQABwsFfBBgBCAAJBQJXFRpKAhsMAAoJEKqx7BSn lIjvI/8P/jg0jl4Tbvg3B5kT6PxJOXHYu9OoyaHLcay6Cd+ZrOd1VQQCbOcgLFbf4Yr+rE9l mYsY67AUgq2QKmVVbn9pjvGsEaz8UmfDnz5epUhDxC6yRRvY4hreMXZhPZ1pbMa6A0a/WOSt AgFj5V6Z4dXGTM/lNManr0HjXxbUYv2WfbNt3/07Db9T+GZkpUotC6iknsTA4rJi6u2ls0W9 1UIvW4o01vb4nZRCj4rni0g6eWoQCGoVDk/xFfy7ZliR5B+3Z3EWRJcQskip/QAHjbLa3pml xAZ484fVxgeESOoaeC9TiBIp0NfH8akWOI0HpBCiBD5xaCTvR7ujUWMvhsX2n881r/hNlR9g fcE6q00qHSPAEgGr1bnFv74/1vbKtjeXLCcRKk3Ulw0bY1OoDxWQr86T2fZGJ/HIZuVVBf3+ gaYJF92GXFynHnea14nFFuFgOni0Mi1zDxYH/8yGGBXvo14KWd8JOW0NJPaCDFJkdS5hu0VY 7vJwKcyHJGxsCLU+Et0mryX8qZwqibJIzu7kUJQdQDljbRPDFd/xmGUFCQiQAncSilYOcxNU EMVCXPAQTteqkvA+gNqSaK1NM9tY0eQ4iJpo+aoX8HAcn4sZzt2pfUB9vQMTBJ2d4+m/qO6+ cFTAceXmIoFsN8+gFN3i8Is3u12u8xGudcBPvpoy4OoG X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N11100 Message-ID: <05943b3c-e2c6-4c03-93d9-5c2553e5865a@linaro.org> Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 09:37:07 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20180528221819.GA77894@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 12:37:15 -0000 On 28/05/2018 19:18, Steve Kargl wrote: > On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 06:12:13PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: >> >>>> And is having a different algorithm for single and double prevision >>>> a blocker for a future patch proposal? >>> >>> No. Given the comment in sinf.c that max ULP is 0.56072, I do note that >>> the current implementation of sinf in lib/msun is more accurate (for >>> interesting values of x). I also looked at single/s_sincosf.c. It is >>> rather dubious to have 80+ digit numerical constants for a float, which >>> at most has 9 relevant digits. >>> >> >> Also keep in mind my initial idea is to propose patches only to expf, powf, >> logf, expf2, and log2f. > > OK, so I peeked at expf. Comment claims max ulp of 0.502. > Exhaustive testing for normal numbers in relevent range for > the current implementation of expf(x) shows > > Interval tested: [-18,88.72] > ULP: 0.90951, x = -5.19804668e+00f, /* 0xc0a65666 */ > flt = 5.52735012e-03f, /* 0x3bb51ec6 */ > dbl = 5.5273505437686398e-03, /* 0x3f76a3d8, 0xdd1aae8e */ > > But, then one looks at implementation details. msun's current > implementation is written in terms of single precision; while > the routine you're suggesting is written in terms of double_t. > So, achieving 0.502 ULP is due to having 53-bits in intermediate > results. It appears that the algorithm of the suggested code > cannot easily be generalized to double and long double without > implementing a multiple-precision routines. This is indeed true for the default implementation, although the same repo has alternative implementation that uses only float for expf, powf, and logf. However, as far as I could evaluated, the optimized expf and powf single version does not yield any gain over current FreeBSD version, only for the logf I see some gains. Do you see any issue about current approach of using intermediary double_t for internal calculations? > > Note, years ago, I submitted implementations for expf, exp, > ld80/expl, ld128/expl, logf, log, ld80/logl, and ld128/logl > based on papers by PTP Tang [1,2]. My versions for single > and double precision were not adopted even though these had > better accuracy. Either Bruce Evans improved or with Bruce's > help I improved the ld80 and ld128 routines, which were added > to msun. I know Bruce fixed minor issues with the single > and double precision routines, but he has not submitted patches. > > 1. PTP Tang, "Table-driven implementation of the exponential > function in IEEE floating-point arithmetic," ACM Trans. Math. > Soft., 15, 144-157 (1989). > > 2. PTP Tang, "Table-driven implementation of the logarithm > function in IEEE floating-point arithmetic," ACM Trans. Math. > Soft., 16, 378-400 (1990). > Thanks for the links, do you recall why exactly your implementations were not adopted? Do you think a similar proposal based on the arm repo would be also rejected? From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue May 29 17:32:26 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C8BEFA773 for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 17:32:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24F3A75CDC; Tue, 29 May 2018 17:32:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w4THWOFH043643 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 29 May 2018 10:32:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w4THWO3Y043642; Tue, 29 May 2018 10:32:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 10:32:24 -0700 From: Steve Kargl To: Adhemerval Zanella Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Code with apache-2 on /usr/src Message-ID: <20180529173224.GA96547@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20180528190444.GE3789@kib.kiev.ua> <20180528193506.GA76705@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1c09023e-9bf5-d23a-dedc-1c4f4706bbde@linaro.org> <20180528202117.GA77184@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <72101038-9e89-3f23-ab67-1c97b2a89803@linaro.org> <20180528210907.GA77475@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20180528221819.GA77894@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <05943b3c-e2c6-4c03-93d9-5c2553e5865a@linaro.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <05943b3c-e2c6-4c03-93d9-5c2553e5865a@linaro.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.2 (2017-12-15) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 17:32:26 -0000 On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 09:37:07AM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: > > > On 28/05/2018 19:18, Steve Kargl wrote: > > On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 06:12:13PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: > >> > >>>> And is having a different algorithm for single and double prevision > >>>> a blocker for a future patch proposal? > >>> > >>> No. Given the comment in sinf.c that max ULP is 0.56072, I do note that > >>> the current implementation of sinf in lib/msun is more accurate (for > >>> interesting values of x). I also looked at single/s_sincosf.c. It is > >>> rather dubious to have 80+ digit numerical constants for a float, which > >>> at most has 9 relevant digits. > >>> > >> > >> Also keep in mind my initial idea is to propose patches only to expf, powf, > >> logf, expf2, and log2f. > > > > OK, so I peeked at expf. Comment claims max ulp of 0.502. > > Exhaustive testing for normal numbers in relevent range for > > the current implementation of expf(x) shows > > > > Interval tested: [-18,88.72] > > ULP: 0.90951, x = -5.19804668e+00f, /* 0xc0a65666 */ > > flt = 5.52735012e-03f, /* 0x3bb51ec6 */ > > dbl = 5.5273505437686398e-03, /* 0x3f76a3d8, 0xdd1aae8e */ > > > > But, then one looks at implementation details. msun's current > > implementation is written in terms of single precision; while > > the routine you're suggesting is written in terms of double_t. > > So, achieving 0.502 ULP is due to having 53-bits in intermediate > > results. It appears that the algorithm of the suggested code > > cannot easily be generalized to double and long double without > > implementing a multiple-precision routines. > > This is indeed true for the default implementation, although the same repo > has alternative implementation that uses only float for expf, powf, and > logf. However, as far as I could evaluated, the optimized expf and powf > single version does not yield any gain over current FreeBSD version, only > for the logf I see some gains. > > Do you see any issue about current approach of using intermediary double_t > for internal calculations? > No. The kernels for sinf and cosf (ie., k_sinf.c and k_cosf.c) use double for its intermediate computations. But, the main code in s_sin[fl].c and s_cos[f].c have the same internal structure: 1) Split argument into integer parts 2) Filter special values (+-inf, NaN) 3) Split into intervals a) for small x no range reduction is needed. b) do range reduction into [0,pi/4] 4) In (3a) deal with subnormal numbers with care to avoid spurious underflow. 5) In (3b), use polynomial approximations. Because the internal structure is similar for all precision, it makes maintenance easier. For maintenance and the importance of having the same structure, see the history of s_erff.c: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/lib/msun/src/s_erff.c?view=log > > Note, years ago, I submitted implementations for expf, exp, > > ld80/expl, ld128/expl, logf, log, ld80/logl, and ld128/logl > > based on papers by PTP Tang [1,2]. My versions for single > > and double precision were not adopted even though these had > > better accuracy. Either Bruce Evans improved or with Bruce's > > help I improved the ld80 and ld128 routines, which were added > > to msun. I know Bruce fixed minor issues with the single > > and double precision routines, but he has not submitted patches. > > > > 1. PTP Tang, "Table-driven implementation of the exponential > > function in IEEE floating-point arithmetic," ACM Trans. Math. > > Soft., 15, 144-157 (1989). > > > > 2. PTP Tang, "Table-driven implementation of the logarithm > > function in IEEE floating-point arithmetic," ACM Trans. Math. > > Soft., 16, 378-400 (1990). > > Thanks for the links, do you recall why exactly your implementations were > not adopted? Do you think a similar proposal based on the arm repo would > be also rejected? Mostly due to issues on my part. Bruce was/is the only person interested in reviewing patches to libm. At the time I submitted that code, his comments and suggestions could be characterized as drinking from a fire hose. When I had a commit bit, I finally gave up on the pursuit of perfect code and simply committed s_expl.c. Later, David Das committed s_logl.c. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue May 29 20:39:48 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E97B9F7434D for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 20:39:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org) Received: from mail-qt0-x22b.google.com (mail-qt0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6ABC67DB94 for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 20:39:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org) Received: by mail-qt0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id h2-v6so20461968qtp.7 for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 13:39:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linaro.org; s=google; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; 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Tue, 29 May 2018 13:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.105] ([179.159.11.160]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id f22-v6sm23149275qke.94.2018.05.29.13.39.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 29 May 2018 13:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Code with apache-2 on /usr/src To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org References: <20180528190444.GE3789@kib.kiev.ua> <20180528193506.GA76705@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1c09023e-9bf5-d23a-dedc-1c4f4706bbde@linaro.org> <20180528202117.GA77184@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <72101038-9e89-3f23-ab67-1c97b2a89803@linaro.org> <20180528210907.GA77475@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20180528221819.GA77894@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <05943b3c-e2c6-4c03-93d9-5c2553e5865a@linaro.org> <20180529173224.GA96547@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Adhemerval Zanella Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFcVGkoBEADiQU2x/cBBmAVf5C2d1xgz6zCnlCefbqaflUBw4hB/bEME40QsrVzWZ5Nq 8kxkEczZzAOKkkvv4pRVLlLn/zDtFXhlcvQRJ3yFMGqzBjofucOrmdYkOGo0uCaoJKPT186L NWp53SACXguFJpnw4ODI64ziInzXQs/rUJqrFoVIlrPDmNv/LUv1OVPKz20ETjgfpg8MNwG6 iMizMefCl+RbtXbIEZ3TE/IaDT/jcOirjv96lBKrc/pAL0h/O71Kwbbp43fimW80GhjiaN2y WGByepnkAVP7FyNarhdDpJhoDmUk9yfwNuIuESaCQtfd3vgKKuo6grcKZ8bHy7IXX1XJj2X/ BgRVhVgMHAnDPFIkXtP+SiarkUaLjGzCz7XkUn4XAGDskBNfbizFqYUQCaL2FdbW3DeZqNIa nSzKAZK7Dm9+0VVSRZXP89w71Y7JUV56xL/PlOE+YKKFdEw+gQjQi0e+DZILAtFjJLoCrkEX w4LluMhYX/X8XP6/C3xW0yOZhvHYyn72sV4yJ1uyc/qz3OY32CRy+bwPzAMAkhdwcORA3JPb kPTlimhQqVgvca8m+MQ/JFZ6D+K7QPyvEv7bQ7M+IzFmTkOCwCJ3xqOD6GjX3aphk8Sr0dq3 4Awlf5xFDAG8dn8Uuutb7naGBd/fEv6t8dfkNyzj6yvc4jpVxwARAQABzUlBZGhlbWVydmFs IFphbmVsbGEgTmV0dG8gKExpbmFybyBWUE4gS2V5KSA8YWRoZW1lcnZhbC56YW5lbGxhQGxp bmFyby5vcmc+wsF3BBMBCAAhBQJXFRpKAhsDBQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYCAwEAAh4BAheAAAoJ EKqx7BSnlIjv0e8P/1YOYoNkvJ+AJcNUaM5a2SA9oAKjSJ/M/EN4Id5Ow41ZJS4lUA0apSXW NjQg3VeVc2RiHab2LIB4MxdJhaWTuzfLkYnBeoy4u6njYcaoSwf3g9dSsvsl3mhtuzm6aXFH /Qsauav77enJh99tI4T+58rp0EuLhDsQbnBic/ukYNv7sQV8dy9KxA54yLnYUFqH6pfH8Lly sTVAMyi5Fg5O5/hVV+Z0Kpr+ZocC1YFJkTsNLAW5EIYSP9ftniqaVsim7MNmodv/zqK0IyDB GLLH1kjhvb5+6ySGlWbMTomt/or/uvMgulz0bRS+LUyOmlfXDdT+t38VPKBBVwFMarNuREU2 69M3a3jdTfScboDd2ck1u7l+QbaGoHZQ8ZNUrzgObltjohiIsazqkgYDQzXIMrD9H19E+8fw kCNUlXxjEgH/Kg8DlpoYJXSJCX0fjMWfXywL6ZXc2xyG/hbl5hvsLNmqDpLpc1CfKcA0BkK+ k8R57fr91mTCppSwwKJYO9T+8J+o4ho/CJnK/jBy1pWKMYJPvvrpdBCWq3MfzVpXYdahRKHI ypk8m4QlRlbOXWJ3TDd/SKNfSSrWgwRSg7XCjSlR7PNzNFXTULLB34sZhjrN6Q8NQZsZnMNs TX8nlGOVrKolnQPjKCLwCyu8PhllU8OwbSMKskcD1PSkG6h3r0AqzsFNBFcVGkoBEACgAdbR Ck+fsfOVwT8zowMiL3l9a2DP3Eeak23ifdZG+8Avb/SImpv0UMSbRfnw/N81IWwlbjkjbGTu oT37iZHLRwYUFmA8fZX0wNDNKQUUTjN6XalJmvhdz9l71H3WnE0wneEM5ahu5V1L1utUWTyh VUwzX1lwJeV3vyrNgI1kYOaeuNVvq7npNR6t6XxEpqPsNc6O77I12XELic2+36YibyqlTJIQ V1SZEbIy26AbC2zH9WqaKyGyQnr/IPbTJ2Lv0dM3RaXoVf+CeK7gB2B+w1hZummD21c1Laua +VIMPCUQ+EM8W9EtX+0iJXxI+wsztLT6vltQcm+5Q7tY+HFUucizJkAOAz98YFucwKefbkTp eKvCfCwiM1bGatZEFFKIlvJ2QNMQNiUrqJBlW9nZp/k7pbG3oStOjvawD9ZbP9e0fnlWJIsj 6c7pX354Yi7kxIk/6gREidHLLqEb/otuwt1aoMPg97iUgDV5mlNef77lWE8vxmlY0FBWIXuZ yv0XYxf1WF6dRizwFFbxvUZzIJp3spAao7jLsQj1DbD2s5+S1BW09A0mI/1DjB6EhNN+4bDB SJCOv/ReK3tFJXuj/HbyDrOdoMt8aIFbe7YFLEExHpSk+HgN05Lg5TyTro8oW7TSMTk+8a5M kzaH4UGXTTBDP/g5cfL3RFPl79ubXwARAQABwsFfBBgBCAAJBQJXFRpKAhsMAAoJEKqx7BSn lIjvI/8P/jg0jl4Tbvg3B5kT6PxJOXHYu9OoyaHLcay6Cd+ZrOd1VQQCbOcgLFbf4Yr+rE9l mYsY67AUgq2QKmVVbn9pjvGsEaz8UmfDnz5epUhDxC6yRRvY4hreMXZhPZ1pbMa6A0a/WOSt AgFj5V6Z4dXGTM/lNManr0HjXxbUYv2WfbNt3/07Db9T+GZkpUotC6iknsTA4rJi6u2ls0W9 1UIvW4o01vb4nZRCj4rni0g6eWoQCGoVDk/xFfy7ZliR5B+3Z3EWRJcQskip/QAHjbLa3pml xAZ484fVxgeESOoaeC9TiBIp0NfH8akWOI0HpBCiBD5xaCTvR7ujUWMvhsX2n881r/hNlR9g fcE6q00qHSPAEgGr1bnFv74/1vbKtjeXLCcRKk3Ulw0bY1OoDxWQr86T2fZGJ/HIZuVVBf3+ gaYJF92GXFynHnea14nFFuFgOni0Mi1zDxYH/8yGGBXvo14KWd8JOW0NJPaCDFJkdS5hu0VY 7vJwKcyHJGxsCLU+Et0mryX8qZwqibJIzu7kUJQdQDljbRPDFd/xmGUFCQiQAncSilYOcxNU EMVCXPAQTteqkvA+gNqSaK1NM9tY0eQ4iJpo+aoX8HAcn4sZzt2pfUB9vQMTBJ2d4+m/qO6+ cFTAceXmIoFsN8+gFN3i8Is3u12u8xGudcBPvpoy4OoG Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 17:39:40 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20180529173224.GA96547@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 20:39:48 -0000 On 29/05/2018 14:32, Steve Kargl wrote: > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 09:37:07AM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: >> >> >> On 28/05/2018 19:18, Steve Kargl wrote: >>> On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 06:12:13PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: >>>> >>>>>> And is having a different algorithm for single and double prevision >>>>>> a blocker for a future patch proposal? >>>>> >>>>> No. Given the comment in sinf.c that max ULP is 0.56072, I do note that >>>>> the current implementation of sinf in lib/msun is more accurate (for >>>>> interesting values of x). I also looked at single/s_sincosf.c. It is >>>>> rather dubious to have 80+ digit numerical constants for a float, which >>>>> at most has 9 relevant digits. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Also keep in mind my initial idea is to propose patches only to expf, powf, >>>> logf, expf2, and log2f. >>> >>> OK, so I peeked at expf. Comment claims max ulp of 0.502. >>> Exhaustive testing for normal numbers in relevent range for >>> the current implementation of expf(x) shows >>> >>> Interval tested: [-18,88.72] >>> ULP: 0.90951, x = -5.19804668e+00f, /* 0xc0a65666 */ >>> flt = 5.52735012e-03f, /* 0x3bb51ec6 */ >>> dbl = 5.5273505437686398e-03, /* 0x3f76a3d8, 0xdd1aae8e */ >>> >>> But, then one looks at implementation details. msun's current >>> implementation is written in terms of single precision; while >>> the routine you're suggesting is written in terms of double_t. >>> So, achieving 0.502 ULP is due to having 53-bits in intermediate >>> results. It appears that the algorithm of the suggested code >>> cannot easily be generalized to double and long double without >>> implementing a multiple-precision routines. >> >> This is indeed true for the default implementation, although the same repo >> has alternative implementation that uses only float for expf, powf, and >> logf. However, as far as I could evaluated, the optimized expf and powf >> single version does not yield any gain over current FreeBSD version, only >> for the logf I see some gains. >> >> Do you see any issue about current approach of using intermediary double_t >> for internal calculations? >> > > No. The kernels for sinf and cosf (ie., k_sinf.c and k_cosf.c) > use double for its intermediate computations. But, the main > code in s_sin[fl].c and s_cos[f].c have the same internal structure: > > 1) Split argument into integer parts > 2) Filter special values (+-inf, NaN) > 3) Split into intervals > a) for small x no range reduction is needed. > b) do range reduction into [0,pi/4] > 4) In (3a) deal with subnormal numbers with care to avoid spurious > underflow. > 5) In (3b), use polynomial approximations. > > Because the internal structure is similar for all precision, it > makes maintenance easier. For maintenance and the importance of > having the same structure, see the history of s_erff.c: > > https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/lib/msun/src/s_erff.c?view=log > >>> Note, years ago, I submitted implementations for expf, exp, >>> ld80/expl, ld128/expl, logf, log, ld80/logl, and ld128/logl >>> based on papers by PTP Tang [1,2]. My versions for single >>> and double precision were not adopted even though these had >>> better accuracy. Either Bruce Evans improved or with Bruce's >>> help I improved the ld80 and ld128 routines, which were added >>> to msun. I know Bruce fixed minor issues with the single >>> and double precision routines, but he has not submitted patches. >>> >>> 1. PTP Tang, "Table-driven implementation of the exponential >>> function in IEEE floating-point arithmetic," ACM Trans. Math. >>> Soft., 15, 144-157 (1989). >>> >>> 2. PTP Tang, "Table-driven implementation of the logarithm >>> function in IEEE floating-point arithmetic," ACM Trans. Math. >>> Soft., 16, 378-400 (1990). >> >> Thanks for the links, do you recall why exactly your implementations were >> not adopted? Do you think a similar proposal based on the arm repo would >> be also rejected? > > Mostly due to issues on my part. Bruce was/is the only person interested > in reviewing patches to libm. At the time I submitted that code, his > comments and suggestions could be characterized as drinking from a fire > hose. When I had a commit bit, I finally gave up on the pursuit of > perfect code and simply committed s_expl.c. Later, David Das committed > s_logl.c. > Thanks for the feedback so far, it was valuable. The only missing bit is the original question, do you know if using apache-2 on /usr/src is allowed? From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue May 29 20:53:20 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C0CAF7538B for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 20:53:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F0F97E7C0; Tue, 29 May 2018 20:53:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w4TKrCLi048011 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 29 May 2018 13:53:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w4TKrCKP048001; Tue, 29 May 2018 13:53:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 13:53:12 -0700 From: Steve Kargl To: Adhemerval Zanella Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Code with apache-2 on /usr/src Message-ID: <20180529205312.GA86398@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20180528193506.GA76705@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1c09023e-9bf5-d23a-dedc-1c4f4706bbde@linaro.org> <20180528202117.GA77184@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <72101038-9e89-3f23-ab67-1c97b2a89803@linaro.org> <20180528210907.GA77475@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20180528221819.GA77894@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <05943b3c-e2c6-4c03-93d9-5c2553e5865a@linaro.org> <20180529173224.GA96547@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.2 (2017-12-15) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 20:53:20 -0000 On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 05:39:40PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: > > Thanks for the feedback so far, it was valuable. The only missing bit is > the original question, do you know if using apache-2 on /usr/src is allowed? IANAL, and reading the Apache-2 license gives me a headache. The question is better address to FreeBSD Core team or the FreeBSD Foundation. My opinion doesn't count for muchi around here, but I do think the code would be allowed. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue May 29 21:51:22 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CD9FF78E2D for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 21:51:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it0-x22f.google.com (mail-it0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF2F280DF9 for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 21:51:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id p3-v6so20472773itc.0 for ; Tue, 29 May 2018 14:51:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=moRtlbqHKcruHzNHCbeRQawhWjy2HEa1NAFO4lb1dn4=; b=xhfYYbW6R4UMzq18PNPT2mlAf5kNYIJLDm4TIstJ0nHTaYKHJkS2qzySP9x/ghTYsT 94sHKMN7lfwOpLFCMWKCqxOasTameAPQ2lGGvWkwCQpx0a6rYUkOw8AZPimlvk6FkukL BhIFCj6LbPe/BQHlPIiCu9ecaV25w6kWxtfTBBl9X2av1Hx/r/XXoJmTNflJ1c3JKAva RqJZElr3aUOg9P6O3lsuUkQt2fK94RDAeCrh08SUbzXi6kBwNo5QdUZQfgA+kVuUWAs1 8wI2xTJcE/YA/6Ry862nzb0wFzc/oLqaL3WIeWM+pWxrQ/Fi8wvRC+Bl7DPnSUzi/Dbe tTFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=moRtlbqHKcruHzNHCbeRQawhWjy2HEa1NAFO4lb1dn4=; b=ixg9UDr09MJgB2xcS1paidOrmayaKsgXbJnbiWC9jqZmwhiImIupnsVrZYXjSAqUQK EWcdaUYyB35Z9Rzi/G/+dbBJFm517ugGyiGrn8U+ryUXeraTvBadQSWCnr7XD60IFglW RSQSr/mhqiHl+4Tm+U6V+J4vYPLSJBz6PYSHGLrq1KECcmbh+ZdXpYYQFBLUEYat5YhV XHeHba/HQPiYuNW+TLem46dbGnStwyJj6fB3oJTuRAtJ8bDiQwlUuFwISVihY1AB9PGE 1Hrf5DQGlic6KFs3BpD9/hSFsqvmWBlujLKUGZKbb07wBZfW1sJ06vTnJUFhZXQlUz1V iSHw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwchXfCJEDSd86/XLB/RlIdZev5PRMov0rlB0wxURhFuPdl1h3F8 MDAX0khEc/WzTPMsjcsGkF5UMgjU/C/rBOtyZhgCPA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKIAXrDhu81tNMvaKj5IzHdpBo3hRh24CUbeIRygLoma3hRkhJQcRhbHW9gLRF4JVkwiFFHnatEE64d72dztBuE= X-Received: by 2002:a24:64ce:: with SMTP id t197-v6mr610963itc.36.1527630681109; Tue, 29 May 2018 14:51:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 2002:a4f:d028:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 29 May 2018 14:51:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:1052:acc7:f9de:2b6d] In-Reply-To: <20180529205312.GA86398@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <20180528193506.GA76705@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1c09023e-9bf5-d23a-dedc-1c4f4706bbde@linaro.org> <20180528202117.GA77184@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <72101038-9e89-3f23-ab67-1c97b2a89803@linaro.org> <20180528210907.GA77475@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20180528221819.GA77894@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <05943b3c-e2c6-4c03-93d9-5c2553e5865a@linaro.org> <20180529173224.GA96547@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20180529205312.GA86398@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 15:51:20 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: eK2KmuGpfSgNRZOtsuzvZSOJNTw Message-ID: Subject: Re: Code with apache-2 on /usr/src To: Steve Kargl Cc: Adhemerval Zanella , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Ed Maste , Konstantin Belousov Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.26 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 21:51:22 -0000 On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 2:53 PM, Steve Kargl < sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 05:39:40PM -0300, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: > > > > Thanks for the feedback so far, it was valuable. The only missing bit is > > the original question, do you know if using apache-2 on /usr/src is > allowed? > > IANAL, and reading the Apache-2 license gives me a > headache. The question is better address to FreeBSD > Core team or the FreeBSD Foundation. My opinion > doesn't count for muchi around here, but I do think > the code would be allowed. > Not the Foundation, but the Core team. The Core Team sets policy for the project. The Foundation provides funding and advocacy. This is clearly a policy call. It's not on the list right now. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 31 20:31:33 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A47A3EEE600 for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 20:31:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io0-x22d.google.com (mail-io0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35CA97D56C for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 20:31:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id l19-v6so17478015ioj.5 for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 13:31:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Ao/yxcKhKSXEquOZefNqmvIxlOtiYHqtKj8LWJ5kDHk=; b=I5/P9Z3xjhbkJFXibnnFNyC8UxtQqhpOvzT3eTXteYlpYPIMY7+tBemZWbuti2Ovp1 0qc3SEfFndMlPeamUt6IeoJ91tqduWIGsK6w4BcV2XGBL6/4+QiLWYR3SCqZR8WyzQbt vbtIgwYElMfZEK+8MblizTUVzn4/SuRFQtjlDTCYhOOMwOkpVLc4NJTpCj+2suWryTTs t197qZR1BvV9A/UH4TGowPUSc7a6dt+bpa7BaQ1N0FRfaUqlrJvgysbVPqEhZzv4bGge IFVvza2vrqyncWk5rf2Xh440UemcizJH4HxX/5iWb//2B7JrMhaRbh0XQXvSrQZf5tJv ZyVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Ao/yxcKhKSXEquOZefNqmvIxlOtiYHqtKj8LWJ5kDHk=; b=jagMW9s2ZGi3weaDuQhuJ2QZap+fXp0nf65dofefEdWWxPOwV5kEuw0HQxwFCoOkKf HhA2Y2D9sWFrc8EqyVHcEx6ixrkFLuxzZCuOi27tk6ONgCVWUVZMRaZOw/DwWdMIABxc JMyJPyMbOXFrH6vTjQj2no6zoB2mMudj5MqfvgJP4HUy40/sbcsOPxd3FmKFjVq2MvWk rsx688VCrwlMDcvuPbdgFQsC6IlcfYno70P6eL3V7w52wbjcdvLyLwR/1BTIk+C5rJS4 EMKMxIjZi6hfRZJehcyfybQJBl8AqVAPhUhy/x7anSgtON1jd0RaQhCYu4KlMwNuJRj8 DKiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E3+HXJO3YtUrEYx++G4yaphkXZZDgadFvndUde3fFozS3D8kE3C nLUunzINqU34wAn7gFVI6PtiYpUl7PQ5zPZYbAc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKKyjQb60WH3vohsSLRjDkIyVOope8BMLxfUgDLRGowtVpFghwGrQa353TLLLfmAp2SS+Jkd5PFKMfpo/8b/M+U= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:1801:: with SMTP id 1-v6mr7864893ioy.129.1527798692734; Thu, 31 May 2018 13:31:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ac0:c003:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 31 May 2018 13:31:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Dieter BSD Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 13:31:32 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 20:31:33 -0000 Standard operating procedure at FreeBSD is: Ignore PR for years. Close PR because it is "old". Question: In what universe is this acceptable? Example, from one of today's spam: > Unfortunately this PR was never addressed before these versions > of FreeBSD went out of support. Sorry. > > If this is still a problem, please open a new PR. Thanks. Question: Support? What support? There is no support. Question: What would be the reason for someone to resubmit a PR that was closed merely because it was "old"? From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 31 20:44:27 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A6DFEF3D78 for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 20:44:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 6yearold@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pg0-f50.google.com (mail-pg0-f50.google.com [74.125.83.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF3A37E102 for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 20:44:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 6yearold@gmail.com) Received: by mail-pg0-f50.google.com with SMTP id a13-v6so10221250pgu.4 for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 13:44:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hlnIIZ+TAO18sWUliJhnSr9UK9kOYkJRLdf5sjzJeBQ=; b=OfIKrZlLQiWeKt73lizC25VvOh9yWNBXEux95GmeFSONOlx4yqs8bHZO+YcESCVbPt 85HeB39vLjkg9q0LKXyov/4J3/w+5mZeGBKwZ7wMlZrRKLXWGak7dinx8Zm0zR2Q+oyM VV/FPLH4AsKFVHX2i7IqaxBl7b3FhRD2JbHtib+i5nvS3OKRcJAdgywWyDwvgzfAMSmB 4woL0/456WfgTXZDxJTks2u/J+0flZmpGZKyuEpmR3YH8emQ/YBSU8+QnDy1N1S9WABr eOk/28GeOMJda7Xk+zU6+xnAViKS1fH2Wh/Mi0TcfwBPCvWujNMOvxQpQvy8E7lL60XK VQeA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwfrM/XrRy90+qwp6dMs7wMiPeFzGnLsPh49lgZGzjc49M+Zvz/e lTTOvo2Lh5Bava5Yx7s3s/PWEEmH5Dw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJv7SIFr5mZeGD/WYI1orrgjKJE6+amgxVtFPT54LNmWr7XKQB39Nzu4pIvV9a1suZBtummGw== X-Received: by 2002:a62:9b57:: with SMTP id r84-v6mr8245135pfd.157.1527799458591; Thu, 31 May 2018 13:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-f176.google.com (mail-pf0-f176.google.com. [209.85.192.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o84-v6sm88374610pfi.27.2018.05.31.13.44.18 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 31 May 2018 13:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-f176.google.com with SMTP id b74-v6so7898357pfl.5 for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 13:44:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a63:3807:: with SMTP id f7-v6mr6656433pga.446.1527799458042; Thu, 31 May 2018 13:44:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:c502:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 31 May 2018 13:43:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Gleb Popov Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 23:43:47 +0300 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: Dieter BSD Cc: freebsd-hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.26 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 20:44:27 -0000 On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:31 PM, Dieter BSD wrote: > Standard operating procedure at FreeBSD is: > Starting a mail like this isn't very constructive. What PR are you talking about, at least? > > Ignore PR for years. > Close PR because it is "old". > > Question: In what universe is this acceptable? > > Example, from one of today's spam: > > > Unfortunately this PR was never addressed before these versions > > of FreeBSD went out of support. Sorry. > > > > If this is still a problem, please open a new PR. Thanks. > > Question: Support? What support? There is no support. > > Question: What would be the reason for someone to resubmit a PR > that was closed merely because it was "old"? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 31 20:48:35 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCA51EF7A73 for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 20:48:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 623077E5AF for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 20:48:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFAA214894; Thu, 31 May 2018 20:48:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w4VKmXxA001321 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 31 May 2018 20:48:33 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w4VKmXs4001320; Thu, 31 May 2018 20:48:33 GMT (envelope-from phk) To: Dieter BSD cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( In-reply-to: From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1318.1527799713.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 20:48:33 +0000 Message-ID: <1319.1527799713@critter.freebsd.dk> X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 20:48:36 -0000 -------- In message , Dieter BSD writes: >Standard operating procedure at FreeBSD is: > >Ignore PR for years. >Close PR because it is "old". > >Question: In what universe is this acceptable? In a universe with severely limited man-hours for dealing with PRs ? -- = Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe = Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence= . From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 31 21:07:41 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2EDAEFAE4D for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:07:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it0-x22b.google.com (mail-it0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 819527F8BC for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:07:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id c3-v6so29803431itj.4 for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 14:07:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=v9Vr6oMJHj2aFn7yGJgdmPDiTPQUfyOV7w9SfjyBK78=; b=AZjd1JQMiNZLOfrG4KS2z8xCxyEFgzArPpxryOidNDKoPfpPFd7a1yaQ9yH+ywhMkK PYtdNF9ETt9WEjUpUy0deZ4k//rvUxDipI6vk+bwj/O/8/93pqegjTd/fFltuU8pGLfL hoM+vGc5sTIytwVRqJWLxaBu0oC2EkYvXIng37E4+Te4OttYwq+BaQAvihKwTpW1oB9T y7vRBG180503g82Wf7nM12/voX5W0frCqlIpubFWTNeC2F1KfvqU6XCwdJDqPoytY4Y+ IGv+meI/ZRUIX+EWPs74pmdUe//jrJMomh88jEIbcP/6siZTmeBrKp+kxihbhIUow3ZJ Nj0g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=v9Vr6oMJHj2aFn7yGJgdmPDiTPQUfyOV7w9SfjyBK78=; b=YUcrc9OfVby2rcjzK6fZT+jZzZ5C8eDVnPrTA7IxlT1b8wb2N+3xth1Yiv5e9+XwZz q8g52DpE53iXdt1G01aWVdPumATnJ5WK7Q+3PgFh8c0a6JulbHBDu/YImtLViH4W7cl1 sGEE2IMeHfIKKqLqty2ruzJ9+GLesTPtGodhmf0UV8HRVK3Tg7J4ItXv9lDkMmSSaXH7 B0sDBjvNBTSKgbXrgE46qMfwn9zVGGjH6mQRxnbDnia7u9aRoJyeuT+6CReGnQApwY6E TTAhwmHozpIgxBGxRuTz2o7bmvYQCFA7zbvHUWAI4RsLd52DHX/olnbWEC20JfbmA0UG ETag== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0BwLEWvPNo5QZCM4GUBvfS4ZpuDQWANREOt8FY6vogBOwlTfhk /OETfOjyLRUY/0/Lc7VJcOvhTpU0ugwsaEZYTk39pA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLJKXjCZbWqmNo0iDQ0qyrlWBFUeAG5SP3kHTgDQ+FCWH0FleYmrhVDIOumZ7xyKuE6p/P4h0uXjmOeL4b191A= X-Received: by 2002:a24:64ce:: with SMTP id t197-v6mr1657124itc.36.1527800859827; Thu, 31 May 2018 14:07:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 2002:a4f:d028:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 31 May 2018 14:07:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:1052:acc7:f9de:2b6d] In-Reply-To: References: From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 15:07:39 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: pzHJaWbbTNutXPICCeUMTSKdijQ Message-ID: Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: Dieter BSD Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.26 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 21:07:41 -0000 On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:31 PM, Dieter BSD wrote: > Standard operating procedure at FreeBSD is: > > Ignore PR for years. > Close PR because it is "old". > > Question: In what universe is this acceptable? > > Example, from one of today's spam: > > > Unfortunately this PR was never addressed before these versions > > of FreeBSD went out of support. Sorry. > > > > If this is still a problem, please open a new PR. Thanks. > > Question: Support? What support? There is no support. > > Question: What would be the reason for someone to resubmit a PR > that was closed merely because it was "old"? > There's a problem with the PR database: there's too many bugs. Some of these bugs are real, some are not. Some have been fixed but never closed (either due to laziness on the part of the developer, or due to ignorance that the PR existed that matched the bug fixed). After a while, the report loses its value and just becomes noise that decreases the value of other bugs in the PR database. What Eitan is doing is to try to catch up with the backlog by asking people if the problem is still a bug, and if so to refile so we know that the information is fresh. In addition, he's been applying fixes that are easy that have languished. So, is this idea? Nope. However, it's clear that the project doesn't have the resources to re-validate bugs as still being a bug, at least given the volume of bugs in our bug database. This is not a terrible "second best" idea that should help the signal / noise ratio of the PR database, which makes it more valuable to developers and others that might fancy fixing a bug. The execution, however, could have explained these things better to avoid friction and hard feeling for people that had bugs so affected. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 31 21:14:40 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A751CEFBFCB for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:14:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 458897FEC5 for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:14:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 448F01487A; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:14:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w4VLEcJU001409 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 31 May 2018 21:14:38 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w4VLEcmk001408; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:14:38 GMT (envelope-from phk) To: Warner Losh cc: Dieter BSD , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( In-reply-to: From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1406.1527801278.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 21:14:38 +0000 Message-ID: <1407.1527801278@critter.freebsd.dk> X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 21:14:40 -0000 -------- In message , Warner Losh writes: >There's a problem with the PR database: there's too many bugs. And despite the valiant efforts of a number of people over the lifetime of the project, it has always had so many bugs that everybody just threw their hands in the air and walked away. The way to improve the situation is to fix PR's, not to complain about PRs. -- = Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe = Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence= . From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 31 21:02:15 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8841FEFA179 for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:02:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3453C7F5CA for ; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:02:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1E8D9E38; Thu, 31 May 2018 16:02:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 16:02:13 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: Dieter BSD Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( Message-ID: <20180531210212.GD24090@lonesome.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 31 May 2018 21:51:32 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 21:02:15 -0000 On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 01:31:32PM -0700, Dieter BSD wrote: > Standard operating procedure at FreeBSD is: > > Ignore PR for years. > Close PR because it is "old". > > Question: In what universe is this acceptable? The sender of the messages in question was me. I have tried for years to get more people to work on PRs. I have simply failed. We have far too many PRs coming in vs. the number of committers willing to do the work to get them in committable form; or, work through the diagnosis. So I've failed at the first part. For the second part, if we're talking about things like FreeBSD 8 and 9, there are simply no committer who are going to work on them any more. I doubt we have many committers that will look at any issue on 10, either, as it approaches EOL. We even have some who prefer to only work on -current. At some point it's simply realistic to say "this PR is never going to be worked on". I'd like to see us do a lot better at dealing with "PRs with patches" -- even more so than "can't get FreeBSD to run" -- but without some kind of set of new volunteers willing to work on only such issues, it simply isn't going to happen. Please don't say "make the committers do xyz". All discussions of that form in the past have led nowhere. Please don't say "well, just spend money on the problem". Define who will be spending money, who will be receving the money, and under what terms they will continue to receive the money. # closed per month? That just makes people go for the easy ones. But under what metric do we keep paying them otherwise? tl:dr; problem reports are an area where relying on volunteers is admittedly insufficient, but no one has solved the "do it without volunteers" problem. And, this is not the first time we've had this discussion on the mailing lists -- I hope someone comes up with new, concrete, proposals, but I am not hopeful. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 09:13:27 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B33AF7644A for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:13:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bu7cher@yandex.ru) Received: from forward102o.mail.yandex.net (forward102o.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1a2d::602]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "forwards.mail.yandex.net", Issuer "Yandex CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EBE036CDD6 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:13:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bu7cher@yandex.ru) Received: from mxback14g.mail.yandex.net (mxback14g.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1472:2741:0:8b7:93]) by forward102o.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id C110B5A01CCA; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 12:13:13 +0300 (MSK) Received: from smtp4p.mail.yandex.net (smtp4p.mail.yandex.net [2a02:6b8:0:1402::15:6]) by mxback14g.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTP id uAqdGtSMWY-DDeGxxRx; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:13:13 +0300 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1527844393; bh=BU3bv4MOkc7J0WgGY8z3IvFdfCoGuosVg5dFGU7ykjs=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To; b=epVaOkct7XOFkqDQrRY52fjo5w80OZ9ptYoGLUxy1FUzSnALGnH9XH8bYYu1hFEDb bAOnWNz82S5Leyms3iZx9VcD9E2+TD0D/skxUmSDsYCkTzPz9UJ0znGMQgyyeI+SQj k6Wk79Y3bN1PfynwIShajxa5eewGLzllcnYbdBYE= Received: by smtp4p.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id krXVDTkFCz-DCWub3pw; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:13:12 +0300 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client certificate not present) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1527844392; bh=BU3bv4MOkc7J0WgGY8z3IvFdfCoGuosVg5dFGU7ykjs=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To; b=kAacdixONyfPgY2KMeRqqLs8D+hE3jgKvcr3LDZUoIkgEzFApF++p3GA8TpNm6nH0 XNub3J8iSES3Oumg3WxkvCRzHxY6X1SL0eIMZvaG18EIqCuVlfUQgm3RSmNVW/Sjo1 nIR2rE8vGl+niFjFIEGhMzSghciwMAcLHwRcqrdY= Authentication-Results: smtp4p.mail.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: Mark Linimon , Dieter BSD Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20180531210212.GD24090@lonesome.com> From: "Andrey V. Elsukov" Openpgp: id=E6591E1B41DA1516F0C9BC0001C5EA0410C8A17A Autocrypt: addr=bu7cher@yandex.ru; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsBNBEwBF1kBCADB9sXFhBEUy8qQ4X63Y8eBatYMHGEFWN9ypS5lI3RE6qQW2EYbxNk7qUC5 21YIIS1mMFVBEfvR7J9uc7yaYgFCEb6Sce1RSO4ULN2mRKGHP3/Sl0ijZEjWHV91hY1YTHEF ZW/0GYinDf56sYpDDehaBF5wkWIo1+QK5nmj3vl0DIDCMNd7QEiWpyLVwECgLX2eOAXByT8B bCqVhJGcG6iFP7/B9Ll6uX5gb8thM9LM+ibwErDBVDGiOgvfxqidab7fdkh893IBCXa82H9N CNwnEtcgzh+BSKK5BgvPohFMgRwjti37TSxwLu63QejRGbZWSz3OK3jMOoF63tCgn7FvABEB AAHNIkFuZHJleSBWLiBFbHN1a292IDxhZUBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZz7CwHsEEwECACUCGwMGCwkI BwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheABQJMB/ruAhkBAAoJEAHF6gQQyKF6MLwH/3Ri/TZl9uo0 SepYWXOnxL6EaDVXDA+dLb1eLKC4PRBBjX29ttQ0KaWapiE6y5/AfzOPmRtHLrHYHjd/aiHX GMLHcYRXD+5GvdkK8iMALrZ28X0JXyuuZa8rAxWIWmCbYHNSBy2unqWgTI04Erodk90IALgM 9JeHN9sFqTM6zalrMnTzlcmel4kcjT3lyYw3vOKgoYLtsLhKZSbJoVVVlvRlGBpHFJI5AoYJ SyfXoN0rcX6k9X7Isp2K50YjqxV4v78xluh1puhwZyC0p8IShPrmrp9Oy9JkMX90o6UAXdGU KfdExJuGJfUZOFBTtNIMNIAKfMTjhpRhxONIr0emxxDOwE0ETAEXWQEIAJ2p6l9LBoqdH/0J PEFDY2t2gTvAuzz+8zs3R03dFuHcNbOwjvWCG0aOmVpAzkRa8egn5JB4sZaFUtKPYJEQ1Iu+ LUBwgvtXf4vWpzC67zs2dDuiW4LamH5p6xkTD61aHR7mCB3bg2TUjrDWn2Jt44cvoYxj3dz4 S49U1rc9ZPgD5axCNv45j72tggWlZvpefThP7xT1OlNTUqye2gAwQravXpZkl5JG4eOqJVIU X316iE3qso0iXRUtO7OseBf0PiVmk+wCahdreHOeOxK5jMhYkPKVn7z1sZiB7W2H2TojbmcK HZC22sz7Z/H36Lhg1+/RCnGzdEcjGc8oFHXHCxUAEQEAAcLAXwQYAQIACQUCTAEXWQIbDAAK CRABxeoEEMihegkYCAC3ivGYNe2taNm/4Nx5GPdzuaAJGKWksV+w9mo7dQvU+NmI2az5w8vw 98OmX7G0OV9snxMW+6cyNqBrVFTu33VVNzz9pnqNCHxGvj5dL5ltP160JV2zw2bUwJBYsgYQ WfyJJIM7l3gv5ZS3DGqaGIm9gOK1ANxfrR5PgPzvI9VxDhlr2juEVMZYAqPLEJe+SSxbwLoz BcFCNdDAyXcaAzXsx/E02YWm1hIWNRxanAe7Vlg7OL+gvLpdtrYCMg28PNqKNyrQ87LQ49O9 50IIZDOtNFeR0FGucjcLPdS9PiEqCoH7/waJxWp6ydJ+g4OYRBYNM0EmMgy1N85JJrV1mi5i Message-ID: <5f84bfc4-3e47-283f-184f-49df94e0d457@yandex.ru> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 12:09:54 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20180531210212.GD24090@lonesome.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="R7wPplaYl4ewVnFMVlpNow4FZ5RwOleVF" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 09:13:27 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --R7wPplaYl4ewVnFMVlpNow4FZ5RwOleVF Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="ucNkZtWPOrvOKfKY24Ey6c7V9tKmJGJWP"; protected-headers="v1" From: "Andrey V. Elsukov" To: Mark Linimon , Dieter BSD Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <5f84bfc4-3e47-283f-184f-49df94e0d457@yandex.ru> Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( References: <20180531210212.GD24090@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: <20180531210212.GD24090@lonesome.com> --ucNkZtWPOrvOKfKY24Ey6c7V9tKmJGJWP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 01.06.2018 00:02, Mark Linimon wrote: > I'd like to see us do a lot better at dealing with "PRs with patches" -= - > even more so than "can't get FreeBSD to run" -- but without some kind > of set of new volunteers willing to work on only such issues, it simply= > isn't going to happen. I suggest to forcibly subscribe any committers to the freebsd-bugs@ mailing list in addition to *-committers@. :) --=20 WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov --ucNkZtWPOrvOKfKY24Ey6c7V9tKmJGJWP-- --R7wPplaYl4ewVnFMVlpNow4FZ5RwOleVF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEE5lkeG0HaFRbwybwAAcXqBBDIoXoFAlsRDWcACgkQAcXqBBDI oXrHowf/d/5dMu0l9Xpv+XHMwXQswjJThTtRLi4BfpN4ecSnRrw/yHERq7Y09jpd Yq5YJQn00ARgaZhLqTj9aces/ux5xC/m6WTi9c9SIFzYw9XBuCU6bVabRQUOiKav wPlA6n+whFOxC47O/MCmtEbRJiC0r7lwzijYYS7aVUJ4fx7CCKA113G0uyZqzZZE 4/k3cwmccMHuq9tmrAQ/vfB331cLE2RBX45htYxRWJF/DjQJ66cXp8RseFTBJRw/ ZJBnIcOgHeHCbezDqK7UiO6IFnckAZg+K7/AnZRZzyk8vWDqnCT0MxPY4n/IIAfG BpXDJGjZxyndfc1YP73YOi/g5YgblA== =pE9s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --R7wPplaYl4ewVnFMVlpNow4FZ5RwOleVF-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 09:12:41 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A26F2F76239; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:12:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-f46.google.com (mail-lf0-f46.google.com [209.85.215.46]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6364C6CD61; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:12:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-f46.google.com with SMTP id d24-v6so13793007lfa.8; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 02:12:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:cc:from:subject:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=7xH2Jr+f02nYAulnOiZSgHEGBjwz4f8AkpmCCGDX0aA=; b=UzoZp9rj9CHcjB0zpCRXyISfzyfh67qJKvN1hXmQa+9SHLwI/+RMcebmTQjv6Q31Z2 BD64T1lmlh8Y+1RWV7dnYQZHqIGHW42il2NKvb4M/dgXCfh2OZgJOmXnKCNljakZ//iR 43bgGX4PbWzDJKaGMxGzNsHcTj+sjhdpqfKUxp3EQHeZ+u7yN9ZvpmJdLqMnRdPWB6Jm lqeYYexHexZosdvsRwGTQp/16lANWm+Cnmu6GpPqYACuTxGJvc4ZwOxSuW0cl4DNvO4d Vb9ig1mrMVp7MrqzNDdG24zF3q/gKSzAWi3DBb5+q7t+sIuD88UBFgwqfx6CTZkb/jU+ 09Qw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPweTMCR8Ke3MlPjqe+evmwkIGtjGToio0j7FyH6K3uNmB4Opp3QD qbKxGtTZ5pyvJduKDOER5jVM3vmZ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKKF7npXVipnuivRgTE2Gg7OQHjg6fTi0QNwirjk5bsPCUlOuaZo5Soj2ZRpYow5GOnkBrGHtw== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:80c1:: with SMTP id r1-v6mr7906471ljg.85.1527844350919; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 02:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.88] (east.meadow.volia.net. [93.72.151.96]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id c63-v6sm8332771lfc.37.2018.06.01.02.12.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 01 Jun 2018 02:12:30 -0700 (PDT) To: FreeBSD Hackers Cc: FreeBSD Current From: Andriy Gapon Subject: HPET-based NMI (debug) watchdog Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=avg@FreeBSD.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFm4LIgBEADNB/3lT7f15UKeQ52xCFQx/GqHkSxEdVyLFZTmY3KyNPQGBtyvVyBfprJ7 mAeXZWfhat6cKNRAGZcL5EmewdQuUfQfBdYmKjbw3a9GFDsDNuhDA2QwFt8BmkiVMRYyvI7l N0eVzszWCUgdc3qqM6qqcgBaqsVmJluwpvwp4ZBXmch5BgDDDb1MPO8AZ2QZfIQmplkj8Y6Z AiNMknkmgaekIINSJX8IzRzKD5WwMsin70psE8dpL/iBsA2cpJGzWMObVTtCxeDKlBCNqM1i gTXta1ukdUT7JgLEFZk9ceYQQMJJtUwzWu1UHfZn0Fs29HTqawfWPSZVbulbrnu5q55R4PlQ /xURkWQUTyDpqUvb4JK371zhepXiXDwrrpnyyZABm3SFLkk2bHlheeKU6Yql4pcmSVym1AS4 dV8y0oHAfdlSCF6tpOPf2+K9nW1CFA8b/tw4oJBTtfZ1kxXOMdyZU5fiG7xb1qDgpQKgHUX8 7Rd2T1UVLVeuhYlXNw2F+a2ucY+cMoqz3LtpksUiBppJhw099gEXehcN2JbUZ2TueJdt1FdS ztnZmsHUXLxrRBtGwqnFL7GSd6snpGIKuuL305iaOGODbb9c7ne1JqBbkw1wh8ci6vvwGlzx rexzimRaBzJxlkjNfMx8WpCvYebGMydNoeEtkWldtjTNVsUAtQARAQABzR5BbmRyaXkgR2Fw b24gPGF2Z0BGcmVlQlNELm9yZz7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQS+LEO7ngQnXA4Bjr538m7TUc1yjwUC WbgsiAIbIwUJBaOagAULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRB38m7TUc1yj+JAEACV l9AK/nOWAt/9cufV2fRj0hdOqB1aCshtSrwHk/exXsDa4/FkmegxXQGY+3GWX3deIyesbVRL rYdtdK0dqJyT1SBqXK1h3/at9rxr9GQA6KWOxTjUFURsU7ok/6SIlm8uLRPNKO+yq0GDjgaO LzN+xykuBA0FlhQAXJnpZLcVfPJdWv7sSHGedL5ln8P8rxR+XnmsA5TUaaPcbhTB+mG+iKFj GghASDSfGqLWFPBlX/fpXikBDZ1gvOr8nyMY9nXhgfXpq3B6QCRYKPy58ChrZ5weeJZ29b7/ QdEO8NFNWHjSD9meiLdWQaqo9Y7uUxN3wySc/YUZxtS0bhAd8zJdNPsJYG8sXgKjeBQMVGuT eCAJFEYJqbwWvIXMfVWop4+O4xB+z2YE3jAbG/9tB/GSnQdVSj3G8MS80iLS58frnt+RSEw/ psahrfh0dh6SFHttE049xYiC+cM8J27Aaf0i9RflyITq57NuJm+AHJoU9SQUkIF0nc6lfA+o JRiyRlHZHKoRQkIg4aiKaZSWjQYRl5Txl0IZUP1dSWMX4s3XTMurC/pnja45dge/4ESOtJ9R 8XuIWg45Oq6MeIWdjKddGhRj3OohsltKgkEU3eLKYtB6qRTQypHHUawCXz88uYt5e3w4V16H lCpSTZV/EVHnNe45FVBlvK7k7HFfDDkryM7BTQRZuCyIARAAlq0slcsVboY/+IUJdcbEiJRW be9HKVz4SUchq0z9MZPX/0dcnvz/gkyYA+OuM78dNS7Mbby5dTvOqfpLJfCuhaNYOhlE0wY+ 1T6Tf1f4c/uA3U/YiadukQ3+6TJuYGAdRZD5EqYFIkreARTVWg87N9g0fT9BEqLw9lJtEGDY EWUE7L++B8o4uu3LQFEYxcrb4K/WKmgtmFcm77s0IKDrfcX4doV92QTIpLiRxcOmCC/OCYuO jB1oaaqXQzZrCutXRK0L5XN1Y1PYjIrEzHMIXmCDlLYnpFkK+itlXwlE2ZQxkfMruCWdQXye syl2fynAe8hvp7Mms9qU2r2K9EcJiR5N1t1C2/kTKNUhcRv7Yd/vwusK7BqJbhlng5ZgRx0m WxdntU/JLEntz3QBsBsWM9Y9wf2V4tLv6/DuDBta781RsCB/UrU2zNuOEkSixlUiHxw1dccI 6CVlaWkkJBxmHX22GdDFrcjvwMNIbbyfQLuBq6IOh8nvu9vuItup7qemDG3Ms6TVwA7BD3j+ 3fGprtyW8Fd/RR2bW2+LWkMrqHffAr6Y6V3h5kd2G9Q8ZWpEJk+LG6Mk3fhZhmCnHhDu6CwN MeUvxXDVO+fqc3JjFm5OxhmfVeJKrbCEUJyM8ESWLoNHLqjywdZga4Q7P12g8DUQ1mRxYg/L HgZY3zfKOqcAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBL4sQ7ueBCdcDgGOvnfybtNRzXKPBQJZuCyIAhsM BQkFo5qAAAoJEHfybtNRzXKPBVwQAKfFy9P7N3OsLDMB56A4Kf+ZT+d5cIx0Yiaf4n6w7m3i ImHHHk9FIetI4Xe54a2IXh4Bq5UkAGY0667eIs+Z1Ea6I2i27Sdo7DxGwq09Qnm/Y65ADvXs 3aBvokCcm7FsM1wky395m8xUos1681oV5oxgqeRI8/76qy0hD9WR65UW+HQgZRIcIjSel9vR XDaD2HLGPTTGr7u4v00UeTMs6qvPsa2PJagogrKY8RXdFtXvweQFz78NbXhluwix2Tb9ETPk LIpDrtzV73CaE2aqBG/KrboXT2C67BgFtnk7T7Y7iKq4/XvEdDWscz2wws91BOXuMMd4c/c4 OmGW9m3RBLufFrOag1q5yUS9QbFfyqL6dftJP3Zq/xe+mr7sbWbhPVCQFrH3r26mpmy841ym dwQnNcsbIGiBASBSKksOvIDYKa2Wy8htPmWFTEOPRpFXdGQ27awcjjnB42nngyCK5ukZDHi6 w0qK5DNQQCkiweevCIC6wc3p67jl1EMFY5+z+zdTPb3h7LeVnGqW0qBQl99vVFgzLxchKcl0 R/paSFgwqXCZhAKMuUHncJuynDOP7z5LirUeFI8qsBAJi1rXpQoLJTVcW72swZ42IdPiboqx NbTMiNOiE36GqMcTPfKylCbF45JNX4nF9ElM0E+Y8gi4cizJYBRr2FBJgay0b9Cp Message-ID: <9dbc2ddd-95f1-61aa-d8ce-6ab2b29b6b60@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 12:12:29 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 09:12:41 -0000 Maybe this patch / hack would be interesting to anyone else besides me :) If it is, I would appreciate any testing or review. https://reviews.freebsd.org/D15630 -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 09:22:42 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B365FF784F5 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:22:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bu7cher@yandex.ru) Received: from forward106j.mail.yandex.net (forward106j.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:801:2::109]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "forwards.mail.yandex.net", Issuer "Yandex CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25F146D491 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:22:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bu7cher@yandex.ru) Received: from mxback3o.mail.yandex.net (mxback3o.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1a2d::1d]) by forward106j.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id D565418052DD; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 12:19:26 +0300 (MSK) Received: from smtp4o.mail.yandex.net (smtp4o.mail.yandex.net [2a02:6b8:0:1a2d::28]) by mxback3o.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTP id aIUykhTMTu-JQkmRYqS; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:19:26 +0300 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1527844766; bh=6QXtPLmHRj+qHBTjDJr/tT0lYMpeCuPcMhLyRzY0hCU=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To; b=YDjFqUiPhhcF5+mBGEsNpeerstAHCXs5TMsDDgu4pUKaA8uoVkr9UjY1f3N/5IQAJ gp1Z2vJR88zGIKZU4Vr2LXymFTvQ4MJmM0bVmjHEnOalnZ1eJmbwlBWJecyRnzbv9F jE8nZCyo223a9Ebjt/JxpmBFTR6JEfGmZw2tTp5M= Received: by smtp4o.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id zQBPsqMhJY-JPEW7aq2; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:19:25 +0300 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client certificate not present) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1527844766; bh=6QXtPLmHRj+qHBTjDJr/tT0lYMpeCuPcMhLyRzY0hCU=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To; b=YDjFqUiPhhcF5+mBGEsNpeerstAHCXs5TMsDDgu4pUKaA8uoVkr9UjY1f3N/5IQAJ gp1Z2vJR88zGIKZU4Vr2LXymFTvQ4MJmM0bVmjHEnOalnZ1eJmbwlBWJecyRnzbv9F jE8nZCyo223a9Ebjt/JxpmBFTR6JEfGmZw2tTp5M= Authentication-Results: smtp4o.mail.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: Warner Losh , Dieter BSD Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" References: From: "Andrey V. Elsukov" Openpgp: id=E6591E1B41DA1516F0C9BC0001C5EA0410C8A17A Autocrypt: addr=bu7cher@yandex.ru; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsBNBEwBF1kBCADB9sXFhBEUy8qQ4X63Y8eBatYMHGEFWN9ypS5lI3RE6qQW2EYbxNk7qUC5 21YIIS1mMFVBEfvR7J9uc7yaYgFCEb6Sce1RSO4ULN2mRKGHP3/Sl0ijZEjWHV91hY1YTHEF ZW/0GYinDf56sYpDDehaBF5wkWIo1+QK5nmj3vl0DIDCMNd7QEiWpyLVwECgLX2eOAXByT8B bCqVhJGcG6iFP7/B9Ll6uX5gb8thM9LM+ibwErDBVDGiOgvfxqidab7fdkh893IBCXa82H9N CNwnEtcgzh+BSKK5BgvPohFMgRwjti37TSxwLu63QejRGbZWSz3OK3jMOoF63tCgn7FvABEB AAHNIkFuZHJleSBWLiBFbHN1a292IDxhZUBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZz7CwHsEEwECACUCGwMGCwkI BwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheABQJMB/ruAhkBAAoJEAHF6gQQyKF6MLwH/3Ri/TZl9uo0 SepYWXOnxL6EaDVXDA+dLb1eLKC4PRBBjX29ttQ0KaWapiE6y5/AfzOPmRtHLrHYHjd/aiHX GMLHcYRXD+5GvdkK8iMALrZ28X0JXyuuZa8rAxWIWmCbYHNSBy2unqWgTI04Erodk90IALgM 9JeHN9sFqTM6zalrMnTzlcmel4kcjT3lyYw3vOKgoYLtsLhKZSbJoVVVlvRlGBpHFJI5AoYJ SyfXoN0rcX6k9X7Isp2K50YjqxV4v78xluh1puhwZyC0p8IShPrmrp9Oy9JkMX90o6UAXdGU KfdExJuGJfUZOFBTtNIMNIAKfMTjhpRhxONIr0emxxDOwE0ETAEXWQEIAJ2p6l9LBoqdH/0J PEFDY2t2gTvAuzz+8zs3R03dFuHcNbOwjvWCG0aOmVpAzkRa8egn5JB4sZaFUtKPYJEQ1Iu+ LUBwgvtXf4vWpzC67zs2dDuiW4LamH5p6xkTD61aHR7mCB3bg2TUjrDWn2Jt44cvoYxj3dz4 S49U1rc9ZPgD5axCNv45j72tggWlZvpefThP7xT1OlNTUqye2gAwQravXpZkl5JG4eOqJVIU X316iE3qso0iXRUtO7OseBf0PiVmk+wCahdreHOeOxK5jMhYkPKVn7z1sZiB7W2H2TojbmcK HZC22sz7Z/H36Lhg1+/RCnGzdEcjGc8oFHXHCxUAEQEAAcLAXwQYAQIACQUCTAEXWQIbDAAK CRABxeoEEMihegkYCAC3ivGYNe2taNm/4Nx5GPdzuaAJGKWksV+w9mo7dQvU+NmI2az5w8vw 98OmX7G0OV9snxMW+6cyNqBrVFTu33VVNzz9pnqNCHxGvj5dL5ltP160JV2zw2bUwJBYsgYQ WfyJJIM7l3gv5ZS3DGqaGIm9gOK1ANxfrR5PgPzvI9VxDhlr2juEVMZYAqPLEJe+SSxbwLoz BcFCNdDAyXcaAzXsx/E02YWm1hIWNRxanAe7Vlg7OL+gvLpdtrYCMg28PNqKNyrQ87LQ49O9 50IIZDOtNFeR0FGucjcLPdS9PiEqCoH7/waJxWp6ydJ+g4OYRBYNM0EmMgy1N85JJrV1mi5i Message-ID: <73c8fa31-ef34-5857-e702-6d8093982f9c@yandex.ru> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 12:16:08 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="RAaqqdJA2eSneJGe8BNnFVOnyXMgR8JWl" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 09:22:42 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --RAaqqdJA2eSneJGe8BNnFVOnyXMgR8JWl Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="BydDRu0NDJS5d57K4jGn0xt6mLSK5i3sD"; protected-headers="v1" From: "Andrey V. Elsukov" To: Warner Losh , Dieter BSD Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Message-ID: <73c8fa31-ef34-5857-e702-6d8093982f9c@yandex.ru> Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( References: In-Reply-To: --BydDRu0NDJS5d57K4jGn0xt6mLSK5i3sD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 01.06.2018 00:07, Warner Losh wrote: > So, is this idea? Nope. However, it's clear that the project doesn't ha= ve > the resources to re-validate bugs as still being a bug, at least given = the > volume of bugs in our bug database. This is not a terrible "second best= " > idea that should help the signal / noise ratio of the PR database, whic= h > makes it more valuable to developers and others that might fancy fixing= a > bug. The one thing that I like in GNATS and lack now, it sends weekly reports with list of assigned bugs. This was handy. Each committer and also a project mailing list got such list every week. And this was a good reminder to take a look to open bugs, to fixed and not yet closed bugs, e= tc. --=20 WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov --BydDRu0NDJS5d57K4jGn0xt6mLSK5i3sD-- --RAaqqdJA2eSneJGe8BNnFVOnyXMgR8JWl Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEE5lkeG0HaFRbwybwAAcXqBBDIoXoFAlsRDtgACgkQAcXqBBDI oXo8LggAuazotWuskL8oYjlf7cJxhcWV/mM3C1FWU89STjGEzI3ew499m3svcwIb gIoik61BecknbiKdZgPReHJitBnF0sgJHsaaFqEULbQsLFgRHZnn392OeThRGAAS 9CrrML+6q78ocXtvH/S6tyHXs5Zgto7w/dEOClh76Pv3u5bbpGvILSBf/pxWcz+h 8PP3ck4BunnVPUneJHYD2Vpv6fG8UlWYr0Vf+ZTxvxERzns0vZxgIotL3EdRsbyY UVHG068Ix6Y5xTP/kcgc4YSI9XNxhj79KSF+ecb4cUlZVOxpm6xR1Nb1FDVsBrR0 EdEnI+7qLPFiktFLmjR/qBANOkldhg== =balU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --RAaqqdJA2eSneJGe8BNnFVOnyXMgR8JWl-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 10:19:28 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BCC5FDB6DD for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:19:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (unknown [IPv6:2a01:4f8:d12:604::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E747371756 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:19:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (root@eg.sd.rdtc.ru [62.231.161.221] (may be forged)) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w51AJJwv001513 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 1 Jun 2018 12:19:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: dieterbsd@gmail.com Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eugen@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w51AJFC9046525; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 17:19:15 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: Dieter BSD , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: <5B111DA3.7020503@grosbein.net> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 17:19:15 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=5.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_Q, LOCAL_FROM,RDNS_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Report: * 3.1 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_Q Date: is 4 days to 4 months after Received: date * -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * 1.9 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on hz.grosbein.net X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Level: ***** X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:19:28 -0000 On 01.06.2018 03:31, Dieter BSD wrote: > Standard operating procedure at FreeBSD is: > > Ignore PR for years. > Close PR because it is "old". > > Question: In what universe is this acceptable? > > Example, from one of today's spam: > >> Unfortunately this PR was never addressed before these versions >> of FreeBSD went out of support. Sorry. >> >> If this is still a problem, please open a new PR. Thanks. > > Question: Support? What support? There is no support. > > Question: What would be the reason for someone to resubmit a PR > that was closed merely because it was "old"? Not every PR describes real problem. What is exact PR number you are referring to? From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 10:45:52 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0951EFB6E0 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:45:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (unknown [IPv6:2a01:4f8:d12:604::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B68F73C39 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:45:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (root@eg.sd.rdtc.ru [62.231.161.221] (may be forged)) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w51AjjeN001694 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 1 Jun 2018 12:45:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: bu7cher@yandex.ru Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eugen@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w51AjfCD047064; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 17:45:41 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: "Andrey V. Elsukov" , Warner Losh , Dieter BSD References: <73c8fa31-ef34-5857-e702-6d8093982f9c@yandex.ru> Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: <5B1123D5.6060307@grosbein.net> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 17:45:41 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <73c8fa31-ef34-5857-e702-6d8093982f9c@yandex.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=5.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_Q, LOCAL_FROM,RDNS_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Report: * 3.1 DATE_IN_FUTURE_96_Q Date: is 4 days to 4 months after Received: date * -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * 1.9 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on hz.grosbein.net X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Level: ***** X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:45:52 -0000 On 01.06.2018 16:16, Andrey V. Elsukov wrote: > On 01.06.2018 00:07, Warner Losh wrote: >> So, is this idea? Nope. However, it's clear that the project doesn't have >> the resources to re-validate bugs as still being a bug, at least given the >> volume of bugs in our bug database. This is not a terrible "second best" >> idea that should help the signal / noise ratio of the PR database, which >> makes it more valuable to developers and others that might fancy fixing a >> bug. > > The one thing that I like in GNATS and lack now, it sends weekly reports > with list of assigned bugs. This was handy. Each committer and also a > project mailing list got such list every week. And this was a good > reminder to take a look to open bugs, to fixed and not yet closed bugs, etc. +1 Can we get weekly notifications back? From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 10:38:34 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB7D9EF9936 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:38:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 886CB7345C for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:38:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BDA4D282; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 05:38:33 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 05:38:32 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: "Andrey V. Elsukov" Cc: Dieter BSD , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( Message-ID: <20180601103832.GC25691@lonesome.com> References: <20180531210212.GD24090@lonesome.com> <5f84bfc4-3e47-283f-184f-49df94e0d457@yandex.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5f84bfc4-3e47-283f-184f-49df94e0d457@yandex.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 11:10:17 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:38:35 -0000 On Fri, Jun 01, 2018 at 12:09:54PM +0300, Andrey V. Elsukov wrote: > I suggest to forcibly subscribe any committers to the freebsd-bugs@ > mailing list in addition to *-committers@. :) IMVHO it would just cause more resentment. More seriously, from my many many years of watching PRs come in: unless you are as stubborn as a mule (such as myself), you really don't want to see the unfiltered data come in. It can cause you to lose your appetite, encourage tooth decay, and make you yell at any pets or children in your immediate vicinity. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 10:55:27 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24E5FEFD8C4 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:55:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C854E74803; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:55:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1654EE8C; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 05:55:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 05:55:25 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: Eugene Grosbein Cc: Dieter BSD , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, linimon@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( Message-ID: <20180601105524.GE25691@lonesome.com> References: <5B111DA3.7020503@grosbein.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5B111DA3.7020503@grosbein.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 11:40:45 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:55:27 -0000 On Fri, Jun 01, 2018 at 05:19:15PM +0700, Eugene Grosbein wrote: > Not every PR describes real problem. What is exact PR number you > are referring to? There were several in 'Base System'/'amd64' that described boot and install problems during the FreeBSD 8/9/10 timeframes, and did seem like they were (or at least had been) legitimate problems. My personal feeling is that if such things don't get addressed within a release timeframe, it's likely that either a) the problem was fixed later or b) the submitter gave up and went on to some other hardware or even OS. Obviously this was not Dieter BSD's experience. I'm sorry about that but I am not personally in a position to work through all the e.g. boot/install problems that come in. The number is so overwhelming that they rarely get handled in a timely fashion (the "trying to drink from a firehose" problem). Referring people to the forums, or IRC, for such things seems a little unsatisfying as well. I also apologize for the boilerplate response, which several people just found rude. Let's see if we can come up with a better one. tl:dr; there are too many PRs. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 14:15:16 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A274DFDE34B for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:15:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from mx0.gid.co.uk (mx0.gid.co.uk [194.32.164.250]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3631D7DCFF for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:15:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.27] ([194.32.164.27]) by mx0.gid.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id w51EAfWP067766; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:10:41 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( From: Bob Bishop In-Reply-To: <1407.1527801278@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:10:40 +0100 Cc: Warner Losh , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Dieter BSD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1407.1527801278@critter.freebsd.dk> To: Poul-Henning Kamp X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:15:16 -0000 Hi, > On 31 May 2018, at 22:14, Poul-Henning Kamp = wrote: >=20 > -------- > In message = = > , Warner Losh writes: >=20 >> There's a problem with the PR database: there's too many bugs. >=20 > And despite the valiant efforts of a number of people over the > lifetime of the project, it has always had so many bugs that > everybody just threw their hands in the air and walked away. >=20 > The way to improve the situation is to fix PR's, not to complain > about PRs. Indeed. But look at the number of PRs with patches that are stuck in = that state. Not pretty. > --=20 > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe =20 > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by = incompetence. -- Bob Bishop rb@gid.co.uk From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 14:20:13 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B252FDEE12; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:20:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gljennjohn@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x229.google.com (mail-wm0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B6147E30E; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:20:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gljennjohn@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x229.google.com with SMTP id a8-v6so3368702wmg.5; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 07:20:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QoLkrjAq47IuWZdDFrrDj0YS8iMLxm4f7c/nwbupvoo=; b=dARQvIcpZGisSuOCQxc6JYglvP873R4yepmzinDwOMnqrGHIPNiVQBPtPtt7OGoOIE OzjBba+JXcZIXo7PfRByyNJXN2PfsGBtbbzdT7VtvsA4+pmMPDV6yh9jEjDbnkFz0Y8m Ifc27enkxbRgaeAow53AG4pOQ9ecFjNtkFejk6BoTB1qqKBWIPZdVOMzQ3tVtDbv4Ap1 iB8qQsc/tQe0sZJ0scabo6+Ny+sKGLCjT7O+e6DmBV6Pi90vmyZEJ6bDKlrwhsPN98/s 8/DiaYeJ5TWvJ2jMB7JQEdG3KccNutt4I62X+Pe3jlFbOPUk7QJG3FyEuNlHhajVOKT0 RwXQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QoLkrjAq47IuWZdDFrrDj0YS8iMLxm4f7c/nwbupvoo=; b=Dtkc13shhNEYIIdegZ6zKlSqh4tCCLN//kPJckKMj+S6OEGeAbMa15atOI8St39qUU Ba5zIPLZswEJva6n5QhA5okYUPM69XI5bEHeCeEzQdQ95fpXyB1tqWajJMWHsRLb9aoz 3VDXQlI5XEk8OmkyNsiFtOr6fbZIMF8t0v1PazJxwqFWc5Fbqz9x9xkIYxbhs5c6i/XU qipONcTUt1n2MAnqaQrKkqF9yzWPmyjmRF0Mj+q8diIg+QCBwOp8ZRh4zsz3f1l0A1hI Uf23Hr5LF9dxAnkX5wX1xrzk31/ClP5aT0DoS9FWwAhtERVn7Fisl1SnKhpRVNABv27A ouQA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E1qXEB4ReQZIEFS4QoyTICOZ7/c5qgAuxwbkiBrJ8gF6R82uMLB Cc9Y+yW/2ewntf+B6kkpxrSeBg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLAsz0X5Os820O9l13GL1ubgRTdLiAg+NB8G+vWXMZflv+W7EnRHtdWwrE22V9jW7fex4II7A== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:f52:: with SMTP id 79-v6mr2971492wmp.24.1527862810705; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 07:20:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ernst.home (p5B02337A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [91.2.51.122]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b205-v6sm2089878wmh.46.2018.06.01.07.20.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Fri, 01 Jun 2018 07:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 16:20:08 +0200 From: Gary Jennejohn To: Andriy Gapon Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: HPET-based NMI (debug) watchdog Message-ID: <20180601162008.2088cc56@ernst.home> In-Reply-To: <9dbc2ddd-95f1-61aa-d8ce-6ab2b29b6b60@FreeBSD.org> References: <9dbc2ddd-95f1-61aa-d8ce-6ab2b29b6b60@FreeBSD.org> Reply-To: gljennjohn@gmail.com X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.16.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:20:13 -0000 On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 12:12:29 +0300 Andriy Gapon wrote: > Maybe this patch / hack would be interesting to anyone else besides me :) > If it is, I would appreciate any testing or review. > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D15630 > This could be of interest to me because my AMD Ryzen 5 1600 system hangs randomly and I don't know why. I suspect an infinite loop somewhere in the USB stack, but can't prove it because the box is totally unresponsive and I have to hit the reset switch. But my single HPET doesn't seem to be using MSI. -- Gary Jennejohn From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 14:41:05 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D71B4EF9106 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:41:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io0-x231.google.com (mail-io0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 690257F44C for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:41:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-io0-x231.google.com with SMTP id l25-v6so7490385ioh.12 for ; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 07:41:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=8mAXWPjOGkuxFiOn2T4p1n3PRHVNrk3Pku96TWhTs5o=; b=mwXgUo42wEiquzUNkKRmloLMuNkbabHoYSI7F3iGao5Ky81xNhviWiCfzk/g/yqYp+ vmPbEPQqrk1D5K5BEL5fsGOT3Gjyy13Xou7zlQlvmwTaGwSnPDQe1H+k25vwEFgjG4xR SGg/X9YoJk5ltEZrbUYBejYMan2oo8gR2udeo1UyxyIezqpx+YnIm6dFfysTLLQaeuL8 t3QKHKcAvsVcpIEx7c1YbZNoRK/nFrvGc23rBxmFgdELs6eetOpsN/oAEfrf0SrEJFEJ sqn9Ni60BVdFCMLMfK1FKRetU1gHrvLndLPvgilKWm9JKSbuInTnz+bIa0mHm1PLm6QO 3m/g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8mAXWPjOGkuxFiOn2T4p1n3PRHVNrk3Pku96TWhTs5o=; b=PzCIgLNpamcd8tXcatMnqOlsEsB7VmfQNm013lneBvyUrXBRNJlFQFf6esRHUKQMVz 7pkGf3TuWC5Agd0HDVR/t2JkycJgklGi6VDYxl5wgZu3vb2taeA0UjP5LPQrwrLOcf3L znOF1f6mPg5e4y+Ik/CjjHL3Q/SMFXufyOYd9Jk1BOKBYPQxsrqNDbLESuBPSpoBoYtO 1uOf71DeqMCGTqexrVwY/UxWQzCviAt/Ps/0Mlygnq3WYWeGmqU4Dzy3CxSa2Y+5i15I 6VjYK4lt3NFlZrO3hCGNjJVU0Fl+178ZXLTvegtXuuQf87+aciWRKajJjUqYUS4Jj1ql GbdA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwcilgWcMiPqjTBHy+CK+wjhqg8hFLe7Fj9t+x6ZQ/UBwZ4jjR8y h3aXdChqzekB1Fg/dtxB7shbUqnuEnNgIdxC6Q/6ug== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLV6oieZon/2lm4u3pbbkknLndnT75EiVULW2nswuZ8niF2OLqWRZQu9OpKI/uac21yRGgSwj6sDK4fRfnxTBQ= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:284b:: with SMTP id o72-v6mr10757393ioo.168.1527864063489; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 07:41:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 2002:a4f:d028:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:41:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:1052:acc7:f9de:2b6d] In-Reply-To: References: <1407.1527801278@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 08:41:02 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: eTBAlDljbpV68Rv9PanYsgtjVyc Message-ID: Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: Bob Bishop Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Dieter BSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.26 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:41:05 -0000 On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:10 AM, Bob Bishop wrote: > Hi, > > > On 31 May 2018, at 22:14, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > -------- > > In message mail.gmail.com> > > , Warner Losh writes: > > > >> There's a problem with the PR database: there's too many bugs. > > > > And despite the valiant efforts of a number of people over the > > lifetime of the project, it has always had so many bugs that > > everybody just threw their hands in the air and walked away. > > > > The way to improve the situation is to fix PR's, not to complain > > about PRs. > > Indeed. But look at the number of PRs with patches that are stuck in that > state. Not pretty. > Over the years I've committed dozens of PRs that had patches in them. The sad truth is that only about 10-15% of them have comitable patches in them when submitted. And that number decays over time as things age in bugzilla. I have approached things with enthusiasm 3 or 4 times over the years, only to be disappointed in how many I could actually commit, and how much work it took me to find those to commit. There's maybe another 30% that could be committed with less than an hour or two worth of work on them. Regardless of how good you think a fix is, there's the matter of regressions from these fixes. While people can point to really good patches stuck in PRs for a long time, I can point to lots of really bad ones. Separating out the wheat from the chaff is tedious, time consuming and not at all fun. The situation is a lot better these days since we have at least the start of a good regression suite we can use to proof changes (eg, did this tweak to awk break it, or fix it, or as I've discovered too many times, both... but we don't have a good regression suite for awk yet). Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 14:46:40 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE91EF9FA9 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:46:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost2.sentex.ca (smarthost2.sentex.ca [IPv6:2607:f3e0:80:80::2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smarthost.sentex.ca", Issuer "smarthost.sentex.ca" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A7BE7FA28 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:46:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from lava.sentex.ca (lava.sentex.ca [IPv6:2607:f3e0:0:5::11]) by smarthost2.sentex.ca (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w51Ekcdf074499 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:46:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from [192.168.43.26] (saphire3.sentex.ca [192.168.43.26]) by lava.sentex.ca (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w51EkaGe036129; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:46:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: Mark Linimon Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20180531210212.GD24090@lonesome.com> From: Mike Tancsa Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=mike@sentex.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsBNBEzcA24BCACpwI/iqOrs0GfQSfhA1v6Z8AcXVeGsRyKEKUpxoOYxXWc2z3vndbYlIP6E YJeifzKhS/9E+VjhhICaepLHfw865TDTUPr5D0Ed+edSsKjlnDtb6hfNJC00P7eoiuvi85TW F/gAxRY269A5d856bYrzLbkWp2lKUR3Bg6NnORtflGzx9ZWAltZbjYjjRqegPv0EQNYcHqWo eRpXilEo1ahT6nmOU8V7yEvT2j4wlLcQ6qg7w+N/vcBvyd/weiwHU+vTQ9mT61x5/wUrQhdw 2gJHeQXeDGMJV49RT2EEz+QVxaf477eyWsdQzPVjAKRMT3BVdK8WvpYAEfBAbXmkboOxABEB AAHNHG1pa2UgdGFuY3NhIDxtaWtlQHNlbnRleC5jYT7CwHgEEwECACIFAkzcA24CGwMGCwkI BwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEJXHwM2kc8rX+sMH/2V6pTBKsQ5mpWWLgs6wVP2k BC+6r/YKNXv9Rw/PrC6+9hTbgA+sSjJ+8gxsCbJsOQXZrxF0x3l9oYdYfuKcwdwXFX1/FS8p HfBeDkmlH+dI709xT9wgrR4dS5aMmKp0scPrXPIAKiYVOHjOlNItcLYTEEWEFBepheEVsgmk GrNbcrHwOx/u4igUQ8vcpyXPyUki+BsftPw8ZQvBU887igh0OxaCR8AurJppQ5UQd63r81cX E1ZjoFoWCaGK/SjPb/OhpYpu5swoZIhOxQbn7OtakYPsDd5t2A5KhvjI8BMTnd5Go+2xsCmr jlIEq8Bi29gCcfQUvNiClevi13ifmnnOwE0ETNwDbgEIALWGNJHRAhpd0A4vtd3G0oRqMBcM FGThQr3qORmEBTPPEomTdBaHcn+Xl+3YUvTBD/67/mutWBwgp2R5gQOSqcM7axvgMSHbKqBL 9sd1LsLw0UT2O5AYxv3EwzhG84pwRg3XcUqvWA4lA8tIj/1q4Jzi5qOkg1zxq4W9qr9oiYK5 bBR638JUvr3eHMaz/Nz+sDVFgwHmXZj3M6aE5Ce9reCGbvrae7H5D5PPvtT3r22X8SqfVAiO TFKedCf/6jbSOedPN931FJQYopj9P6b3m0nI3ZiCDVSqeyOAIBLzm+RBUIU3brzoxDhYR8pz CJc2sK8l6YjqivPakrD86bFDff8AEQEAAcLAXwQYAQIACQUCTNwDbgIbDAAKCRCVx8DNpHPK 1+iQB/99aqNtez9ZTBWELj269La8ntuRx6gCpzfPXfn6SDIfTItDxTh1hrdRVP5QNGGF5wus N4EMwXouskva1hbFX3Pv72csYSxxEJXjW16oV8WK4KjKXoskLg2RyRP4uXqL7Mp2ezNtVY5F 9nu3fj4ydpHCSaqKy5xd70A8D50PfZsFgkrsa5gdQhPiGGEdxhq/XSeAAnZ4uVLJKarH+mj5 MEhgZPEBWkGrbDZpezl9qbFcUem/uT9x8FYT/JIztMVh9qDcdP5tzANW5J7nvgXjska+VFGY ryZK4SPDczh74mn6GI/+RBi7OUzXXPgpPBrhS5FByjwCqjjsSpTjTds+NGIY Organization: Sentex Communications Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:46:37 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20180531210212.GD24090@lonesome.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:46:40 -0000 On 5/31/2018 5:02 PM, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 01:31:32PM -0700, Dieter BSD wrote: >> Standard operating procedure at FreeBSD is: >> >> Ignore PR for years. >> Close PR because it is "old". >> >> Question: In what universe is this acceptable? > > The sender of the messages in question was me. > > I have tried for years to get more people to work on PRs. I have > simply failed. We have far too many PRs coming in vs. the number > of committers willing to do the work to get them in committable form; > or, work through the diagnosis. > > So I've failed at the first part. Thank you for all the efforts you have done and do! I think you and so many people are doing an amazing job with the given resources. ---Mike -- ------------------- Mike Tancsa, tel +1 519 651 3400 x203 Sentex Communications, mike@sentex.net Providing Internet services since 1994 www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 14:53:40 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC02BEFB0ED for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:53:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from mx0.gid.co.uk (mx0.gid.co.uk [194.32.164.250]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3663F80020 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:53:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.27] ([194.32.164.27]) by mx0.gid.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id w51ErbIr074463; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:53:37 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( From: rb@gid.co.uk In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:53:36 +0100 Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Dieter BSD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1407.1527801278@critter.freebsd.dk> To: Warner Losh X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:53:40 -0000 > On 1 Jun 2018, at 15:41, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 >> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:10 AM, Bob Bishop wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> > On 31 May 2018, at 22:14, Poul-Henning Kamp = wrote: >> >=20 >> > -------- >> > In message = = >> > , Warner Losh writes: >> >=20 >> >> There's a problem with the PR database: there's too many bugs. >> >=20 >> > And despite the valiant efforts of a number of people over the >> > lifetime of the project, it has always had so many bugs that >> > everybody just threw their hands in the air and walked away. >> >=20 >> > The way to improve the situation is to fix PR's, not to complain >> > about PRs. >>=20 >> Indeed. But look at the number of PRs with patches that are stuck in = that state. Not pretty. >=20 > Over the years I've committed dozens of PRs that had patches in them. = The sad truth is that only about 10-15% of them have comitable patches = in them when submitted. And that number decays over time as things age = in bugzilla. [etc] Sure. But the best a non-comitter can do is to supply a patch tested = against HEAD. If the patch rots because it hasn=E2=80=99t been committed = six months down the line it=E2=80=99s not my fault. -- Bob Bishop rb@gid.co.uk From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 15:09:48 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C34FAEFD486 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:09:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it0-x233.google.com (mail-it0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50C4A80DA6 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:09:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it0-x233.google.com with SMTP id 144-v6so2186992iti.5 for ; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 08:09:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=fQgDG31HyG87jbJqpBV8ns/mrh7pbI7orL1fDE4J0sU=; b=lvsHbv2+gFT1fyr7sVeDaKi1o17JS/99VZ6X5aC3vcqIg/xOiOUPue1Dee2Khxe35M OOC04NGU6Kk9IMMxX1c+cyUMfFcpeWWGlIrl/ePGu4fSSI+7zR706ELspbQseW+9FBK3 Oxp/Dn7fquRgTMNzqjNgr+Y+UmE23b/UzmlBR2Ss11lJboNVtgtnRHSvUb5Qe3DH4u9B lu1Di6ps8XqYcleF3M4n50W+NynzDtnLg8w1W82AJG3vskSfVDnQlKPufqLOc85S1FSA t6ubxg15zZk7br5FqX9OG9PkNqM1Yylrej9xmOZbjxUTwpKiTSDL2+KQsCFHSTh5qpmQ gfFQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fQgDG31HyG87jbJqpBV8ns/mrh7pbI7orL1fDE4J0sU=; b=RnRdFUEd16hKxNhDv0+vlZ3L6lQq/DsBupzU1uAqcOinP49rW2Jjx4Z2RfsAf6xGva gzEn/RYiUofP4pjYzeX1n6QLFy5IAjxhmXeJurujKFnvEBu1wNhgJ6UMEYmfGPU7n2kZ sE8AhyDkI/5so/Nrocpl60dICUwtDuVZ3OnhJFS0+5c5MFEzAFeIjkdfDqhjyj/5xFZD zpDLk8c5MNSPXM0VwVQjd5gRA0Vu+u3npZR39eJw2gQq1xvusBNRXsHAEpf260AKeCvz zQLN7XmS95cz+QGwRYXC+v3Ga34KjeSzzwHtof09JbyFgyd6KSbc72PqBOd0VJEralEf oSlA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E1oLiX+cU4Ffw0Px25Hb66RjebfGbSdKTv3IJRMiJ9YNC4jyvlY OH36KE6OcnLxzHoE3idpznjm1YOrRT9BQol1m59sPA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJku9XgYwpHpsKPWYFYh2h2oAcmiuXL7stidgJj5vm+qZEfEsJ/mDqBTyXcGV35+Xifv3/DJsPZg5LAXFXIJN0= X-Received: by 2002:a24:efc2:: with SMTP id i185-v6mr2776249ith.57.1527865787586; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 08:09:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 2002:a4f:d028:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 08:09:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:1052:acc7:f9de:2b6d] In-Reply-To: References: <1407.1527801278@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:09:47 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: M1ApE5TsJ39LkByeO1DkrxADrMw Message-ID: Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: Bob Bishop Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Dieter BSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.26 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 15:09:49 -0000 On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:53 AM, wrote: > > > On 1 Jun 2018, at 15:41, Warner Losh wrote: > > > >> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:10 AM, Bob Bishop wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> > On 31 May 2018, at 22:14, Poul-Henning Kamp > wrote: > >> > > >> > -------- > >> > In message mail.gmail.com> > >> > , Warner Losh writes: > >> > > >> >> There's a problem with the PR database: there's too many bugs. > >> > > >> > And despite the valiant efforts of a number of people over the > >> > lifetime of the project, it has always had so many bugs that > >> > everybody just threw their hands in the air and walked away. > >> > > >> > The way to improve the situation is to fix PR's, not to complain > >> > about PRs. > >> > >> Indeed. But look at the number of PRs with patches that are stuck in > that state. Not pretty. > > > > Over the years I've committed dozens of PRs that had patches in them. > The sad truth is that only about 10-15% of them have comitable patches in > them when submitted. And that number decays over time as things age in > bugzilla. [etc] > > Sure. But the best a non-comitter can do is to supply a patch tested > against HEAD. If the patch rots because it hasn=E2=80=99t been committed = six months > down the line it=E2=80=99s not my fault. > Well, not quite true. I've had several people send me pointers to bugs over the years and engage me when I tell them that the patch isn't quite right. That conversation is easier, to my mind, in Phabricator, though. There's no substitute for making good connections and motivating volunteers to want to help you. That gives much better results than filing and forgetting and hoping for the best. As a committer, I find it a low return on investment to go looking at random PRs. I find it a much higher return on investment when I have a history with someone (even a short one). Fixing this broken state of affairs is not going to be easy... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 15:13:47 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D805EFDEC3 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:13:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound1b.ore.mailhop.org (outbound1b.ore.mailhop.org [54.200.247.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 284B6812AB for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:13:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: 5c972bf1-65ae-11e8-8837-614b7c574d04 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [67.177.211.60]) by outbound1.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 5c972bf1-65ae-11e8-8837-614b7c574d04; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 15:13:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w51FDcBk026270; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:13:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <1527866018.32688.195.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( From: Ian Lepore To: rb@gid.co.uk Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 09:13:38 -0600 In-Reply-To: References: <1407.1527801278@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.18.5.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 15:13:47 -0000 On Fri, 2018-06-01 at 15:53 +0100, rb@gid.co.uk wrote: > > > > On 1 Jun 2018, at 15:41, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:10 AM, Bob Bishop wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > On 31 May 2018, at 22:14, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > > > > > -------- > > > > In message > > > > , Warner Losh writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a problem with the PR database: there's too many bugs. > > > > And despite the valiant efforts of a number of people over the > > > > lifetime of the project, it has always had so many bugs that > > > > everybody just threw their hands in the air and walked away. > > > > > > > > The way to improve the situation is to fix PR's, not to complain > > > > about PRs. > > > Indeed. But look at the number of PRs with patches that are stuck in that state. Not pretty. > > Over the years I've committed dozens of PRs that had patches in them. The sad truth is that only about 10-15% of them have comitable patches in them when submitted. And that number decays over time as things age in bugzilla. [etc] > Sure. But the best a non-comitter can do is to supply a patch tested against HEAD. If the patch rots because it hasn¢t been committed six months down the line it¢s not my fault. > The problem isn't bitrot, the problem is that many patches amount to "here's a hack that works for me," and that isn't necessarily committable. A committer typically has to do almost as much work to figure out whether the patch is appropriate for all users on all arches as they would have to do to develop a fix from scratch. Even if the submitter has mad skills and submits a perfect patch, better than what the committer would have done from scratch, the work to analyze everything and decide whether that's the case still has to be done. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 15:21:43 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7819DEFF412 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:21:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gljennjohn@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr0-x234.google.com (mail-wr0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E021B81876 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:21:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gljennjohn@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr0-x234.google.com with SMTP id k16-v6so9471557wro.0 for ; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 08:21:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=y56NAvS8z1cWkxzYVm1s73aW5QJtIuTrR5R4hpkkD7Q=; b=Q5kwLVntf2eMH4tg/EpXhFJUI4nUAMViU+wJznmEcnamOcpEDrwjEv2vEHrpF/k+Fp PS6MaI/EFMqT8OmMnhzqqkZfN61ZaB040TRr0jb5b/jkMggEwPqlP7KFDrlEF7hZ0RDG es1+v7EwIw190Wg69o8VWTO+UOchyi1Xvte58fvdOmzol4iQAtpkX6fWteKwX642Ef2Y 1lqcy7pbUzR2R41MwKRVJ3p8hTEGdeUGedS9MDD22BQ9r82SCO8tk38ZgiahxIbRqHjY 8oxTw28nSO8JE8PopQ3zolecH17KE5QUds/fydZSJlRM97eNdNb7heyo7CoJyjJ2j/ES ooww== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=y56NAvS8z1cWkxzYVm1s73aW5QJtIuTrR5R4hpkkD7Q=; b=THhWefCLiosGbX78rAdn/pJXD3R7r1QcTRUyOfz3k7iff9rXt560Axwhgplf2F5X6D csgmIjkQ6ktIhZZ9JpRQEvMs7zZ3ZfcGvJa3FWSchTJv6OoMLpUav4BBr4pmvmpseaRq QfD1Hz0H5vaknZ7ycQVEV/gI4saL90k2VrF5aE6gSrs4mzwFQReMPbMyOWZBcTbTqHdL oIR9JBOb2H7ixyXnPRRsq8bMYx/6jvrRVfayvm4/+qMF3KYgeMirIfDmEFYnc0lwoFy3 D0Ux3dhBZqxQxW9vOOr+3ofbqE43zg7fi9utNP8W6dZxZC0HlGiFVJ8bZFgGXmO/yh7D A/+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwc0Ol5iFqbaaRbJXnO/fgW6vxEn7/1ZnYTTa8kbTFaUZEX0ykHM Vml6ekbdFenJUdAI6646wd8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLsIrvHve6jGTMcYY45/n+9QKFHCbInCMdd38ypkgoSPy34EcW6XFLz8fyIvLjg6+Ow6TZBzQ== X-Received: by 2002:adf:9b11:: with SMTP id b17-v6mr9120224wrc.206.1527866501196; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 08:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ernst.home (p5B02337A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [91.2.51.122]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 69-v6sm2419184wmi.29.2018.06.01.08.21.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Fri, 01 Jun 2018 08:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 17:21:39 +0200 From: Gary Jennejohn To: Warner Losh Cc: Bob Bishop , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Poul-Henning Kamp , Dieter BSD Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( Message-ID: <20180601172139.244f739e@ernst.home> In-Reply-To: References: <1407.1527801278@critter.freebsd.dk> Reply-To: gljennjohn@gmail.com X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.16.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 15:21:43 -0000 On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:09:47 -0600 Warner Losh wrote: > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:53 AM, wrote: > > > > > > On 1 Jun 2018, at 15:41, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > >> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:10 AM, Bob Bishop wrote: > > >> Hi, > > >> > > >> > On 31 May 2018, at 22:14, Poul-Henning Kamp > > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > -------- > > >> > In message > mail.gmail.com> > > >> > , Warner Losh writes: > > >> > > > >> >> There's a problem with the PR database: there's too many bugs. > > >> > > > >> > And despite the valiant efforts of a number of people over the > > >> > lifetime of the project, it has always had so many bugs that > > >> > everybody just threw their hands in the air and walked away. > > >> > > > >> > The way to improve the situation is to fix PR's, not to complain > > >> > about PRs. > > >> > > >> Indeed. But look at the number of PRs with patches that are stuck in > > that state. Not pretty. > > > > > > Over the years I've committed dozens of PRs that had patches in them. > > The sad truth is that only about 10-15% of them have comitable patches in > > them when submitted. And that number decays over time as things age in > > bugzilla. [etc] > > > > Sure. But the best a non-comitter can do is to supply a patch tested > > against HEAD. If the patch rots because it hasn't been committed six months > > down the line it's not my fault. > > > > Well, not quite true. I've had several people send me pointers to bugs over > the years and engage me when I tell them that the patch isn't quite right. > That conversation is easier, to my mind, in Phabricator, though. There's no > substitute for making good connections and motivating volunteers to want to > help you. That gives much better results than filing and forgetting and > hoping for the best. As a committer, I find it a low return on investment > to go looking at random PRs. I find it a much higher return on investment > when I have a history with someone (even a short one). > > Fixing this broken state of affairs is not going to be easy... > As a former committer (gj@) I find it easier to send patches to the maintainer. But, I've only done that with Hans Petter Selasky so far, for some XHCI stuff. -- Gary Jennejohn From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 15:27:32 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1CF4F710E1 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:27:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from srs0=obct=it=sigsegv.be=kristof@codepro.be) Received: from venus.codepro.be (venus.codepro.be [IPv6:2a01:4f8:162:1127::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.codepro.be", Issuer "Gandi Standard SSL CA 2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AA8081E2B for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:27:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from srs0=obct=it=sigsegv.be=kristof@codepro.be) Received: from [192.168.228.1] (d5152df30.static.telenet.be [81.82.223.48]) (Authenticated sender: kp) by venus.codepro.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 14C6844ED3; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 17:27:30 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sigsegv.be; s=mail; t=1527866850; bh=XDHZ9filEPz8ycFG2hpryk5rHTRbxi9vEC0avbi6REU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=IdOf8n+4aWiTL9yGceT00h6b8qf/BIDgTKdPZzkc+dqa4ajbjvmjZSyOQ0ENJAu7H a8FjTDEZrFgS61HuS5nhHjJfLDqhB/QWqPPn8OiS7azAZna1Zfe/EXZPGKPajACAQC 62MvGYx3ggBbIyE5pL1ICddWu/KsmHixvmW3ZoP4= From: "Kristof Provost" To: "Warner Losh" Cc: "Bob Bishop" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, "Poul-Henning Kamp" , "Dieter BSD" Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 17:27:28 +0200 X-Mailer: MailMate (2.0BETAr6113) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <1407.1527801278@critter.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 15:27:32 -0000 On 1 Jun 2018, at 17:09, Warner Losh wrote: > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:53 AM, wrote: >>> On 1 Jun 2018, at 15:41, Warner Losh wrote: >> The sad truth is that only about 10-15% of them have comitable >> patches in >> them when submitted. And that number decays over time as things age >> in >> bugzilla. [etc] >> >> Sure. But the best a non-comitter can do is to supply a patch tested >> against HEAD. If the patch rots because it hasn’t been committed >> six months >> down the line it’s not my fault. >> > > Well, not quite true. I've had several people send me pointers to bugs > over > the years and engage me when I tell them that the patch isn't quite > right. > That conversation is easier, to my mind, in Phabricator, though. > There's no > substitute for making good connections and motivating volunteers to > want to > help you. That gives much better results than filing and forgetting > and > hoping for the best. As a committer, I find it a low return on > investment > to go looking at random PRs. I find it a much higher return on > investment > when I have a history with someone (even a short one). > > Fixing this broken state of affairs is not going to be easy... > This is also true for bug reports with no patches attached to them. Bug reports with more information, more reports from people affected by the same bug, simplified test cases, follow-up with confirmation that other versions are affected too and so on are more likely to attract attention. For better or worse, the fact is that both patches and bug reports fare better if their submitter actively advocates for them. I don’t mean to suggest that it is somehow the fault of the submitter if bugs don’t get fixed. Instead I want to point at this as something people can do to help, even if they don’t have commit access, or even if they don't know how to read or write code. Regards, Kristof From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 17:37:19 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B66FBFD0F92 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 17:37:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35F4768C95; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 17:37:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id OnzAf9TRWvB5ROnzBfQfxw; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 11:37:11 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PvS9kTE3 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=7mUfYlMuFuIA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=PUVKXs7LAAAA:8 a=7Qk2ozbKAAAA:8 a=qwVCBH5OZdLGyx9xLSMA:9 a=ftuaK1ZqrHdzQH6C:21 a=t-NM00I_ZsLtby98:21 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=m-TNFrHu3GwZvWbu:21 a=pAfqrZLxT_ZRZLbS:21 a=afAcFle0gJfkSuEz:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=r-OaWyKyUjZHHErRBAgL:22 a=1lyxoWkJIXJV6VJUPhuM:22 Received: from [10.168.3.60] (S0106d4ca6d8943b0.gv.shawcable.net [70.66.132.207]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 77AFD72D; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:37:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Cy Schubert Subject: RE: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:37:11 -0700 To: Ian Lepore , "rb@gid.co.uk" CC: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Message-Id: <20180601173705.77AFD72D@spqr.komquats.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfK8GwKYaX9Mz8ZtHvhYkRBN0HDm+rQGlR8LSYHfFppQzRY7alMfUWY8+qiYPzSU9hZf++QjCtXRNcw2tnYBGeQJoKPEOlJ0r1YxqxAYybYhNhJwnfy9V xL1U9iBCVgf1jXYoPE61OuhBWLhx344mq9OyGMe3E2fXOXj0H7TXHWYyFyR+7wm8LOcZF6YAmn+qReFtUTZqXknm1x/s2XVRcMk= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.26 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 17:37:20 -0000 Yes. Let me relay my experience. I received an IPv4 only hack (I hesitate t= o call it a patch). Reworking the submission to fix the immediate issue and= incrementally addresses IPv6 was unsatisfactory to the OP, as his suggeste= d solution would have removed support for IPv6 entirely: his reply was he d= idn't use IPv6. As a committer when sheepherding patches, one must consider the whole, not = someone's immediate beef. I've had many more experiences like this in ports= where one change might satisfy one locale while becoming a POLA violation = for the rest of the community. Unfortunately when the answer is no or let's= try a compromise, feelings get hurt. --- Sent using a tiny phone keyboard. Apologies for any typos and autocorrect. Also, this old phone only supports top post. Apologies. Cy Schubert or The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. --- -----Original Message----- From: Ian Lepore Sent: 01/06/2018 08:18 To: rb@gid.co.uk Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( On Fri, 2018-06-01 at 15:53 +0100, rb@gid.co.uk wrote:=0A= > > =0A= > > On 1 Jun 2018, at 15:41, Warner Losh wrote:=0A= > > =0A= > > > =0A= > > > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:10 AM, Bob Bishop wrote:=0A= > > > Hi,=0A= > > > =0A= > > > > =0A= > > > > On 31 May 2018, at 22:14, Poul-Henning Kamp wr= ote:=0A= > > > > =0A= > > > > --------=0A= > > > > In message =0A= > > > > , Warner Losh writes:=0A= > > > > =0A= > > > > > =0A= > > > > > There's a problem with the PR database: there's too many bugs.=0A= > > > > And despite the valiant efforts of a number of people over the=0A= > > > > lifetime of the project, it has always had so many bugs that=0A= > > > > everybody just threw their hands in the air and walked away.=0A= > > > > =0A= > > > > The way to improve the situation is to fix PR's, not to complain=0A= > > > > about PRs.=0A= > > > Indeed. But look at the number of PRs with patches that are stuck in = that state. Not pretty.=0A= > > Over the years I've committed dozens of PRs that had patches in them. T= he sad truth is that only about 10-15% of them have comitable patches in th= em when submitted. And that number decays over time as things age in bugzil= la. [etc]=0A= > Sure. But the best a non-comitter can do is to supply a patch tested agai= nst HEAD. If the patch rots because it hasn=A2t been committed six months d= own the line it=A2s not my fault.=0A= > =0A= =0A= The problem isn't bitrot, the problem is that many patches amount to=0A= "here's a hack that works for me," and that isn't necessarily=0A= committable. A committer typically has to do almost as much work to=0A= figure out whether the patch is appropriate for all users on all arches=0A= as they would have to do to develop a fix from scratch. Even if the=0A= submitter has mad skills and submits a perfect patch, better than what=0A= the committer would have done from scratch, the work to analyze=0A= everything and decide whether that's the case still has to be done.=0A= =0A= -- Ian=0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list=0A= https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers=0A= To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"= =0A= From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 18:12:44 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E89A9FD583C for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 18:12:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan@digitaldaemon.com) Received: from digitaldaemon.com (digitaldaemon.com [162.217.114.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 676846A8D0 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 18:12:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan@digitaldaemon.com) Received: (qmail 6629 invoked by uid 89); 1 Jun 2018 18:06:01 -0000 Received: from c-24-0-179-87.hsd1.nj.comcast.net (HELO ?192.168.0.16?) (jan@digitaldaemon.com@24.0.179.87) by digitaldaemon.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2018 18:06:01 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( From: Jan Knepper X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15E302) In-Reply-To: <20180601173705.77AFD72D@spqr.komquats.com> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:06:00 -0400 Cc: Ian Lepore , "rb@gid.co.uk" , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <922472F9-FC3C-46BA-9D7B-0CE1C53446B0@digitaldaemon.com> References: <20180601173705.77AFD72D@spqr.komquats.com> To: Cy Schubert X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 18:12:44 -0000 That sounds like a patch (HACK!) I submitted years (10+?} ago to have multip= le IPv4 addresses in a jail... :-) It was indeed not IPv6 ready... Jan ManiaC++ Jan Knepper > On Jun 1, 2018, at 13:37, Cy Schubert wrote: >=20 > Yes. Let me relay my experience. I received an IPv4 only hack (I hesitate t= o call it a patch). Reworking the submission to fix the immediate issue and i= ncrementally addresses IPv6 was unsatisfactory to the OP, as his suggested s= olution would have removed support for IPv6 entirely: his reply was he didn'= t use IPv6. >=20 > As a committer when sheepherding patches, one must consider the whole, not= someone's immediate beef. I've had many more experiences like this in ports= where one change might satisfy one locale while becoming a POLA violation f= or the rest of the community. Unfortunately when the answer is no or let's t= ry a compromise, feelings get hurt. >=20 > --- > Sent using a tiny phone keyboard. > Apologies for any typos and autocorrect. > Also, this old phone only supports top post. Apologies. >=20 > Cy Schubert > or > The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. > --- >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Lepore > Sent: 01/06/2018 08:18 > To: rb@gid.co.uk > Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( >=20 > On Fri, 2018-06-01 at 15:53 +0100, rb@gid.co.uk wrote: >>>=20 >>> On 1 Jun 2018, at 15:41, Warner Losh wrote: >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:10 AM, Bob Bishop wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On 31 May 2018, at 22:14, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote= : >>>>>=20 >>>>> -------- >>>>> In message=20 >>>>> , Warner Losh writes: >>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> There's a problem with the PR database: there's too many bugs. >>>>> And despite the valiant efforts of a number of people over the >>>>> lifetime of the project, it has always had so many bugs that >>>>> everybody just threw their hands in the air and walked away. >>>>>=20 >>>>> The way to improve the situation is to fix PR's, not to complain >>>>> about PRs. >>>> Indeed. But look at the number of PRs with patches that are stuck in th= at state. Not pretty. >>> Over the years I've committed dozens of PRs that had patches in them. Th= e sad truth is that only about 10-15% of them have comitable patches in them= when submitted. And that number decays over time as things age in bugzilla.= [etc] >> Sure. But the best a non-comitter can do is to supply a patch tested agai= nst HEAD. If the patch rots because it hasn=C2=A2t been committed six months= down the line it=C2=A2s not my fault. >>=20 >=20 > The problem isn't bitrot, the problem is that many patches amount to > "here's a hack that works for me," and that isn't necessarily > committable. A committer typically has to do almost as much work to > figure out whether the patch is appropriate for all users on all arches > as they would have to do to develop a fix from scratch. Even if the > submitter has mad skills and submits a perfect patch, better than what > the committer would have done from scratch, the work to analyze > everything and decide whether that's the case still has to be done. >=20 > -- Ian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"= > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"= From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 18:23:56 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E7F8FDBEE9 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 18:23:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cse.cem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-f47.google.com (mail-it0-f47.google.com [209.85.214.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3442B6B12F for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 18:23:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cse.cem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-f47.google.com with SMTP id l6-v6so2929970iti.2 for ; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 11:23:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xuj51NVfEUWl60jSE+z7ywGvMWI8BaDiHWne77XeEV8=; b=qTez2fl/kwsRlCneF2tehIaGpBr8rX4WeeWt/6f7ZE2zdVNRRxqw26rnMjjKMJqg+m wJDYHlLriBRNPRTF9AUyH57SYtt7mS5jfaa9EEwr0P11fHNEtv/Kwfo9r+RPnts3Ysk1 cYLdeyFHS/pfnOkPat5X+Tzsb+gbDQB1Pj5A1ON2R5YTJ9l34bWoXgqz45BHUzHqdKYj wd+UY9eY4lfSmjSebwS0TAzqOgGZDPL30O6ABwqQ1x8Y4sb5W+YyXxgGdbb2k2NkOGKh /Q0lJGcQ+RofWj0XtVet7GawIHKtNfHOuHmF4vCQ7Rqud1/Mmd+DFixHhn2g+3ACHAz0 nwRw== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0cPBi5T/ETjjrtsREN0xvfH7FLGMROG3SJC72pdroK/nYe4bEO 5UPhv8nhj58QYC1jwF9O2MvL01wr X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKL7Pi9yc2Q0BbglZIBKU8sN4SnKsFvmP0PG5xHSVXMjjsMSVnV7DKNojsvmrlti530uLBGCCA== X-Received: by 2002:a24:2c03:: with SMTP id i3-v6mr5267577iti.90.1527877429293; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 11:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-f54.google.com (mail-it0-f54.google.com. [209.85.214.54]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e28-v6sm1395278itd.35.2018.06.01.11.23.49 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 01 Jun 2018 11:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-f54.google.com with SMTP id a3-v6so2937172itd.0 for ; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 11:23:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a24:100f:: with SMTP id 15-v6mr5517151ity.61.1527877429008; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 11:23:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: cem@freebsd.org Received: by 2002:a02:5995:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 11:23:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5f84bfc4-3e47-283f-184f-49df94e0d457@yandex.ru> References: <20180531210212.GD24090@lonesome.com> <5f84bfc4-3e47-283f-184f-49df94e0d457@yandex.ru> From: Conrad Meyer Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 11:23:48 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: "Andrey V. Elsukov" Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 18:23:56 -0000 On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:09 AM, Andrey V. Elsukov wrote= : > On 01.06.2018 00:02, Mark Linimon wrote: >> I'd like to see us do a lot better at dealing with "PRs with patches" -- >> even more so than "can't get FreeBSD to run" -- but without some kind >> of set of new volunteers willing to work on only such issues, it simply >> isn't going to happen. > > I suggest to forcibly subscribe any committers to the freebsd-bugs@ > mailing list in addition to *-committers@. :) Hi Andrey, Maybe this proposal was made in jest, but I actually like the idea. The dominant noise of freebsd-bugs@ comes from follow-up comments, bug status notifications (sometimes bulk changes made by e.g., Eitan), or direct email reply discussion (not really sure why bugs@ isn't just treated as announce-only). It's still sort of a firehose if you *just* receive new bug reports, but it's much more manageable and you can click through any that look interesting and mark the rest read with no risk of future notification. So my modified proposal is: 1. Create an announce-only bugs list that only receives new ports. Maybe it can have a name incorporating "triage." I don't care. 2. Subscribe committers to it by default. 3. Encourage people to stay subscribed and help them set up inbox filters to separate it from higher priority email, so it's less of a nuisance. 4. Finally, allow opting out. Bug triage isn't for everyone. But it is definitely an area where "many hands make light work," and we don't have a lot of hands doing it right now. Special thanks to Mark, who spends an amazing amount of time helping to triage the incoming bug firehose, annotate bugs with patches, and get bugs in front of relevant eyeballs. Best, Conrad What Is Core Doing About It?=E2=84=A2 From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 18:24:25 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 732FBFDBFCE for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 18:24:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E38EE6B18F; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 18:24:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id Ooimf9levvB5ROoinfQt8Q; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:24:17 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PvS9kTE3 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=7mUfYlMuFuIA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=PUVKXs7LAAAA:8 a=7Qk2ozbKAAAA:8 a=DO_gGp8OAyX-0-pXaWUA:9 a=m7v9i4REJkzID32O:21 a=S_3w0xFycbpumr_n:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=IR6yLdOi-BZFMIHz:21 a=awjn-WOV5uqo9ZOA:21 a=bjmxnTBtGnXja55l:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=r-OaWyKyUjZHHErRBAgL:22 a=1lyxoWkJIXJV6VJUPhuM:22 Received: from [10.168.3.60] (S0106d4ca6d8943b0.gv.shawcable.net [70.66.132.207]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BC182799; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 11:24:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Cy Schubert Subject: RE: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 11:24:20 -0700 To: Jan Knepper CC: Ian Lepore , "rb@gid.co.uk" , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Message-Id: <20180601182415.BC182799@spqr.komquats.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfEUuHlZRz5tawoV8Mz4X8639BSNvrblOCqaYmmKYX2xYc7731dsbei6KAi9DmTZScT4HBYdSVYOd0WHBtiFvkO6C8ClPgH4TWbP/esY7PRLY4l2aLlsq ebtqycB95pMEwf+uWn6LBFcNFs7m12/Nd3G9z/1ltIr7ftqVH1V8n8ZwEtBCI4d6zxohSJgj6yWxGxSEw5pmsVj2ifPT1vx+TUalw8edb2/lrYTR9PYN7/oB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.26 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 18:24:25 -0000 Nope. Last year. --- Sent using a tiny phone keyboard. Apologies for any typos and autocorrect. Also, this old phone only supports top post. Apologies. Cy Schubert or The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. --- -----Original Message----- From: Jan Knepper Sent: 01/06/2018 11:06 To: Cy Schubert Cc: Ian Lepore; rb@gid.co.uk; freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( That sounds like a patch (HACK!) I submitted years (10+?} ago to have multi= ple IPv4 addresses in a jail... :-) It was indeed not IPv6 ready... Jan ManiaC++ Jan Knepper > On Jun 1, 2018, at 13:37, Cy Schubert wrote: >=20 > Yes. Let me relay my experience. I received an IPv4 only hack (I hesitate= to call it a patch). Reworking the submission to fix the immediate issue a= nd incrementally addresses IPv6 was unsatisfactory to the OP, as his sugges= ted solution would have removed support for IPv6 entirely: his reply was he= didn't use IPv6. >=20 > As a committer when sheepherding patches, one must consider the whole, no= t someone's immediate beef. I've had many more experiences like this in por= ts where one change might satisfy one locale while becoming a POLA violatio= n for the rest of the community. Unfortunately when the answer is no or let= 's try a compromise, feelings get hurt. >=20 > --- > Sent using a tiny phone keyboard. > Apologies for any typos and autocorrect. > Also, this old phone only supports top post. Apologies. >=20 > Cy Schubert > or > The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. > --- >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Lepore > Sent: 01/06/2018 08:18 > To: rb@gid.co.uk > Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( >=20 > On Fri, 2018-06-01 at 15:53 +0100, rb@gid.co.uk wrote: >>>=20 >>> On 1 Jun 2018, at 15:41, Warner Losh wrote: >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:10 AM, Bob Bishop wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On 31 May 2018, at 22:14, Poul-Henning Kamp wrot= e: >>>>>=20 >>>>> -------- >>>>> In message=20 >>>>> , Warner Losh writes: >>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> There's a problem with the PR database: there's too many bugs. >>>>> And despite the valiant efforts of a number of people over the >>>>> lifetime of the project, it has always had so many bugs that >>>>> everybody just threw their hands in the air and walked away. >>>>>=20 >>>>> The way to improve the situation is to fix PR's, not to complain >>>>> about PRs. >>>> Indeed. But look at the number of PRs with patches that are stuck in t= hat state. Not pretty. >>> Over the years I've committed dozens of PRs that had patches in them. T= he sad truth is that only about 10-15% of them have comitable patches in th= em when submitted. And that number decays over time as things age in bugzil= la. [etc] >> Sure. But the best a non-comitter can do is to supply a patch tested aga= inst HEAD. If the patch rots because it hasn=C2=A2t been committed six mont= hs down the line it=C2=A2s not my fault. >>=20 >=20 > The problem isn't bitrot, the problem is that many patches amount to > "here's a hack that works for me," and that isn't necessarily > committable. A committer typically has to do almost as much work to > figure out whether the patch is appropriate for all users on all arches > as they would have to do to develop a fix from scratch. Even if the > submitter has mad skills and submits a perfect patch, better than what > the committer would have done from scratch, the work to analyze > everything and decide whether that's the case still has to be done. >=20 > -- Ian >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 18:40:16 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4066DFDE030 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 18:40:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound1b.ore.mailhop.org (outbound1b.ore.mailhop.org [54.200.247.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEBDA6BFCF for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 18:40:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: 37c8bfab-65cb-11e8-8837-614b7c574d04 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [67.177.211.60]) by outbound1.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 37c8bfab-65cb-11e8-8837-614b7c574d04; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 18:40:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w51IeCQR026675; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 12:40:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <1527878412.32688.207.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( From: Ian Lepore To: cem@freebsd.org Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:40:12 -0600 In-Reply-To: References: <20180531210212.GD24090@lonesome.com> <5f84bfc4-3e47-283f-184f-49df94e0d457@yandex.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.18.5.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 18:40:16 -0000 On Fri, 2018-06-01 at 11:23 -0700, Conrad Meyer wrote: > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:09 AM, Andrey V. Elsukov wrote: > > > > On 01.06.2018 00:02, Mark Linimon wrote: > > > > > > I'd like to see us do a lot better at dealing with "PRs with patches" -- > > > even more so than "can't get FreeBSD to run" -- but without some kind > > > of set of new volunteers willing to work on only such issues, it simply > > > isn't going to happen. > > I suggest to forcibly subscribe any committers to the freebsd-bugs@ > > mailing list in addition to *-committers@. :) > Hi Andrey, > > Maybe this proposal was made in jest, but I actually like the idea. > The dominant noise of freebsd-bugs@ comes from follow-up comments, bug > status notifications (sometimes bulk changes made by e.g., Eitan), or > direct email reply discussion (not really sure why bugs@ isn't just > treated as announce-only). > > It's still sort of a firehose if you *just* receive new bug reports, > but it's much more manageable and you can click through any that look > interesting and mark the rest read with no risk of future > notification. > > So my modified proposal is: > > 1. Create an announce-only bugs list that only receives new ports. > Maybe it can have a name incorporating "triage."  I don't care. > 2. Subscribe committers to it by default. > 3. Encourage people to stay subscribed and help them set up inbox > filters to separate it from higher priority email, so it's less of a > nuisance. > 4. Finally, allow opting out.  Bug triage isn't for everyone.  But it > is definitely an area where "many hands make light work," and we don't > have a lot of hands doing it right now. > > Special thanks to Mark, who spends an amazing amount of time helping > to triage the incoming bug firehose, annotate bugs with patches, and > get bugs in front of relevant eyeballs. > > Best, > Conrad > > What Is Core Doing About It?™ > _______________________________________________ I like the idea of a list that just annouces new bugs but contains no other traffic. I sometimes stumble across bugs by accident that I feel like are in my wheelhouse or are trivial to fix. An announce-only list would probably make a few more of those drop into my lap. Do you envision people being able to comment/reply/post to the list in general? What I'm curious about is the level of non-announce mail that's going to be on the list. If it turns into general chit-chat about the bugs that are announced, the noise level goes way way up. Also, that would encourage discussion related to the bugs which should probably happen in bugzilla comments rather than out-of-band mail. Hmm, something that could reduce the traffic even more would be to send out a once-daily mail summarizing the short description lines of all bugs entered in the past 24 hours. Maybe that could be done and sent to a few appropriate existing lists (one or more of stable@, current@, ports@, etc, depending on the metadata in the PRs). -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 18:43:32 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFE84FDE736 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 18:43:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaduk@mit.edu) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (dmz-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu [18.9.25.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83E526C3E3; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 18:43:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaduk@mit.edu) X-AuditID: 1209190c-14dff700000072e2-5c-5b1193cde7f3 Received: from mailhub-auth-3.mit.edu ( [18.9.21.43]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 51.34.29410.DC3911B5; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH-1.MIT.EDU [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-3.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id w51IhNHp029389; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:43:24 -0400 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w51IhJHu003728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 1 Jun 2018 14:43:22 -0400 Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 13:43:19 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Ian Lepore Cc: cem@freebsd.org, "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( Message-ID: <20180601184319.GP27985@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <20180531210212.GD24090@lonesome.com> <5f84bfc4-3e47-283f-184f-49df94e0d457@yandex.ru> <1527878412.32688.207.camel@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1527878412.32688.207.camel@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrBIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixCmqrXt2smC0wYGZqhbv5n5gtti++R+j xZPjb5gdmD1mfJrPEsAYxWWTkpqTWZZapG+XwJWxet9f5oKj3BUTzj1jaWCcwdnFyMEhIWAi MWu1bxcjJ4eQwGImiUXftLsYuYDsDYwS8++0MkE4V5gkLq9cxwLSwCKgIrF2QRFIAxuQ2dB9 mRnEFhFQkNgybzWYzSwQKTGl+zSYLSxgLjGvrZ0JpJUXaNeKcw4QI+cySTw8uogNpIZXQFDi 5MwnLBC9WhI3/r0Eq2cWkJZY/o8DJMwpYCqx4e40sJGiAsoSe/sOsU9gFJiFpHsWku5ZCN0L GJlXMcqm5Fbp5iZm5hSnJusWJyfm5aUW6Rrq5WaW6KWmlG5iBAeoJM8OxjNvvA4xCnAwKvHw BjgLRguxJpYVV+YeYpTkYFIS5X1WBRTiS8pPqcxILM6ILyrNSS0+xCjBwawkwhvuCZTjTUms rEotyodJSXOwKInzZi9ijBYSSE8sSc1OTS1ILYLJynBwKEnwSk0CahQsSk1PrUjLzClBSDNx cIIM5wEa3g9Sw1tckJhbnJkOkT/FqCglzqsHkhAASWSU5sH1ghKIRPb+mleM4kCvCPNOA6ni ASYfuO5XQIOZgAa/lhUAGVySiJCSamDc1Htn7k71oCmXpR7MzFG0ObD+Q2r49clmGl2af875 TWtcuuWJ2+KZj56lXtATmJqflPtibmFiXE/akYRijdsnAj1KpjmpPBXJzr5tt2RJuU20xLPo z9UZgm13n5xiXHJtn5qsidEW6Y1V5+KKHsacrv4rGVWYHh75JfLyz8oly3VmVfytNTBXYinO SDTUYi4qTgQAYf44XPsCAAA= X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 18:43:32 -0000 On Fri, Jun 01, 2018 at 12:40:12PM -0600, Ian Lepore wrote: > > I like the idea of a list that just annouces new bugs but contains no > other traffic. I sometimes stumble across bugs by accident that I feel > like are in my wheelhouse or are trivial to fix. An announce-only list > would probably make a few more of those drop into my lap. > > Do you envision people being able to comment/reply/post to the list in > general? What I'm curious about is the level of non-announce mail > that's going to be on the list. If it turns into general chit-chat > about the bugs that are announced, the noise level goes way way up. > Also, that would encourage discussion related to the bugs which should > probably happen in bugzilla comments rather than out-of-band mail. I would hope that follow-up discussion would occur on the actual bug entries themselves, and interested parties would cc: themselves to the bug. > Hmm, something that could reduce the traffic even more would be to send > out a once-daily mail summarizing the short description lines of all > bugs entered in the past 24 hours. Maybe that could be done and sent to > a few appropriate existing lists (one or more of stable@, current@, > ports@, etc, depending on the metadata in the PRs). We could call it bug-announce-announce@ ;) But seriously, that does sound like it would be useful for some people, and probably even enough so to be worth the effort of setting it up. -Ben From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 19:57:30 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0330CF715B7 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 19:57:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cse.cem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io0-f182.google.com (mail-io0-f182.google.com [209.85.223.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7D4370061; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 19:57:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cse.cem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io0-f182.google.com with SMTP id l19-v6so21257050ioj.5; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:57:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=x3MkP0T5Oc/8t1nAqYxJdLDMTYn+kJ1NngA+hD70Vds=; b=VAnA38w0kidvxN1bIwDaBYSjnUSJ/xgMo647GYEVI9W4C22+HaPpczkQQSF/PRoeaW f4rV/ZSYkEqehk5Gg4G1672O6pH5UopUewx37dcKfE7yLIGcCNWsZIU3VroBq5tLXG2K uR4RuEQ2t7n7o7sxz3cl4nkd28ToDHXUAUqkblGJS5mdkHnEqFZ4gsd6iXL1ggjaj7YU 1po2UeFWWcMfuouQNVsRK8hAHakWu5bOZud3rpCqoeCrBvQNn2Qq9avfjb6RZlSlxw2T 7fQXNyOwkitfuiukFNCbxbRkac8FmunQDPZneVxBgUgaYqLUX4R8WphaZ76c9oSvD9eG 0hyA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0Qvv/AonvJe3ZTXk/bz+GGzENSes7wyry0uyjFD0E90YWIkQD/ qTRLgczhF250Pdu3lkL5bJJfMuCO X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKI6a2OwfIBW3wpDzJjGdFo0NKZY0omlgTCJltVZQbvSBW1jX9ljUh1UsWzAx4Bf7D83ywvvzA== X-Received: by 2002:a6b:f817:: with SMTP id o23-v6mr12161487ioh.106.1527882651176; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-f182.google.com (mail-io0-f182.google.com. [209.85.223.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e4-v6sm1528755iob.31.2018.06.01.12.50.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-f182.google.com with SMTP id l19-v6so21237200ioj.5; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:50:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a6b:b513:: with SMTP id e19-v6mr12337482iof.267.1527882650577; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:50:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: cem@freebsd.org Received: by 2002:a02:5995:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 12:50:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1527878412.32688.207.camel@freebsd.org> References: <20180531210212.GD24090@lonesome.com> <5f84bfc4-3e47-283f-184f-49df94e0d457@yandex.ru> <1527878412.32688.207.camel@freebsd.org> From: Conrad Meyer Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 12:50:49 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: Ian Lepore Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 19:57:30 -0000 Hi Ian, On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 11:40 AM, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Fri, 2018-06-01 at 11:23 -0700, Conrad Meyer wrote: >> ... >> So my modified proposal is: >> >> 1. Create an announce-only bugs list that only receives new ports. Sorry, typo: that should be "new reports." >> ... > > Do you envision people being able to comment/reply/post to the list in > general? Nope. I think it should be Just New Bugs to keep noise down. The idea is to get the summary and description in front of eyeballs, and no follow-up notification unless you explicitly CC yourself. This is basically the model I use today, except I had to set up explicit email filters to get it from the existing list, and that's a totally unnecessary burden to put on everyone. As Ben Kaduk says, discussion can and should happen in Bugzilla. > What I'm curious about is the level of non-announce mail > that's going to be on the list. If it turns into general chit-chat > about the bugs that are announced, the noise level goes way way up. > Also, that would encourage discussion related to the bugs which should > probably happen in bugzilla comments rather than out-of-band mail. Totally agree. It's most useful announce-only. > Hmm, something that could reduce the traffic even more would be to send > out a once-daily mail summarizing the short description lines of all > bugs entered in the past 24 hours. Maybe that could be done and sent to > a few appropriate existing lists (one or more of stable@, current@, > ports@, etc, depending on the metadata in the PRs). I prefer the other model, but I believe mailman can accommodate this mode simultaneously with a single list =E2=80=94 I think users can configur= ed it to do this on a individual user basis. Conrad From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 16:53:07 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28038F7E18E for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 16:53:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C73F487139 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 16:53:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0CDAD6E5; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 11:53:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 11:53:05 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: Warner Losh Cc: Bob Bishop , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Poul-Henning Kamp , Dieter BSD Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( Message-ID: <20180601165304.GB27373@lonesome.com> References: <1407.1527801278@critter.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 20:08:25 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:53:07 -0000 On Fri, Jun 01, 2018 at 09:09:47AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > I find it a much higher return on investment when I have a history > with someone (even a short one). It's also a good way to spot people who could be potential committers. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 20:17:11 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 472B7F74AA1 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 20:17:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (spindle.one-eyed-alien.net [199.48.129.229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86D5071350; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 20:17:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: by spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (Postfix, from userid 3001) id 5FEA35A9F12; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 20:17:09 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 20:17:09 +0000 From: Brooks Davis To: Conrad Meyer Cc: "Andrey V. Elsukov" , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( Message-ID: <20180601201709.GD29648@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> References: <20180531210212.GD24090@lonesome.com> <5f84bfc4-3e47-283f-184f-49df94e0d457@yandex.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZmUaFz6apKcXQszQ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 20:17:11 -0000 --ZmUaFz6apKcXQszQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 01, 2018 at 11:23:48AM -0700, Conrad Meyer wrote: > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:09 AM, Andrey V. Elsukov wro= te: > > On 01.06.2018 00:02, Mark Linimon wrote: > >> I'd like to see us do a lot better at dealing with "PRs with patches" = -- > >> even more so than "can't get FreeBSD to run" -- but without some kind > >> of set of new volunteers willing to work on only such issues, it simply > >> isn't going to happen. > > > > I suggest to forcibly subscribe any committers to the freebsd-bugs@ > > mailing list in addition to *-committers@. :) >=20 > Hi Andrey, >=20 > Maybe this proposal was made in jest, but I actually like the idea. > The dominant noise of freebsd-bugs@ comes from follow-up comments, bug > status notifications (sometimes bulk changes made by e.g., Eitan), or > direct email reply discussion (not really sure why bugs@ isn't just > treated as announce-only). >=20 > It's still sort of a firehose if you *just* receive new bug reports, > but it's much more manageable and you can click through any that look > interesting and mark the rest read with no risk of future > notification. +1 I did a bit of triage while skimming the resets Eitan did and while I didn't find much actionable I was able to close some things properly. -- Brooks --ZmUaFz6apKcXQszQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJbEanEAAoJEKzQXbSebgfAHNMH/j0Si9Qy5hO0sVNdxDYZOZX+ VmJngJOCBUhImLH2yqnCdnddOjRt0o+CflvcjDv6XPXNS4PjMOr5N6+PP4/YiBhK pLicZp5klD1hepbvtmLX0XGG9yl45uBiJ/NpAuxWMM//dR3OpxuRFUhrzB7B2TKH 0pqD71WVUivC7eInVTBQcv5B96S7zzlkYUvRVHKn9Vxqqy0RK1JgXOLi8aXiaHu7 G0Odbw/XJyhNDYiBI10riG19nHE0W2MSDYgLcO3HjVKdnUTBCxEZqtKsvG63sBli 9AD7UsxB8Z9D9wBJRarw0g1SnSUoMaiAPOp9fGT2quuQobW2Ye3gklomug+Rkt8= =x+mf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZmUaFz6apKcXQszQ-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jun 1 21:15:28 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BE51F7DD3B for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 21:15:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-f46.google.com (mail-lf0-f46.google.com [209.85.215.46]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4BB874169 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 21:15:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-f46.google.com with SMTP id j13-v6so12289848lfb.13 for ; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:15:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cTIctGAgy7dEcJl98A3mI51MmTmLTXG/P18POiSUvYg=; b=XKqx6Wk3YZIlPBa4e4QXGGjjjocLdIiyX2+AryK8Am35LLxLX/5VE6X3FEu4fRgo1w TrlN2XHiORozfhMHBh6FDpIYudKXjGo7yLjQW0Pi5F0dfvjkN8VcFq83Dd5k7acR4SRk uLM3GWEKtm4KympjJmsrzBrTj0L3+DWG8gNor25D89k1HvqmjcZHC0xzrncIN5nv2BmM fiaDaxmvwr1qlFLsijxxnfabnlvHeup7IIryaQut7QLAeBG04tWWJS8WgkrfqMRMK1Qx HuMXUKNuIdtQQqCg3xn9DiGsN7YZokx+7w0cX3dlVSgE3V4w8fnnSqDQeT4FGR8cA6wF Vd3A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPweN42wgEJRTt/8easdllsg5rybiRTqM7gjCYQcSo9468X01RphQ JvQtHT1Z8YxNwTTXVRK9gxu0w8AM X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLEB3L2QLUZk/w3NOPRRzjePZDtsxqesni0cDbsQU16WxoMugNuHEUc5MQFjeABthPzV/MnxQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:80c1:: with SMTP id r1-v6mr9623986ljg.85.1527887725564; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:15:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.88] (east.meadow.volia.net. [93.72.151.96]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id l25-v6sm965598ljj.30.2018.06.01.14.15.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: Eugene Grosbein , "Andrey V. Elsukov" Cc: Warner Losh , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" References: <73c8fa31-ef34-5857-e702-6d8093982f9c@yandex.ru> <5B1123D5.6060307@grosbein.net> From: Andriy Gapon Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=avg@FreeBSD.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFm4LIgBEADNB/3lT7f15UKeQ52xCFQx/GqHkSxEdVyLFZTmY3KyNPQGBtyvVyBfprJ7 mAeXZWfhat6cKNRAGZcL5EmewdQuUfQfBdYmKjbw3a9GFDsDNuhDA2QwFt8BmkiVMRYyvI7l N0eVzszWCUgdc3qqM6qqcgBaqsVmJluwpvwp4ZBXmch5BgDDDb1MPO8AZ2QZfIQmplkj8Y6Z AiNMknkmgaekIINSJX8IzRzKD5WwMsin70psE8dpL/iBsA2cpJGzWMObVTtCxeDKlBCNqM1i gTXta1ukdUT7JgLEFZk9ceYQQMJJtUwzWu1UHfZn0Fs29HTqawfWPSZVbulbrnu5q55R4PlQ /xURkWQUTyDpqUvb4JK371zhepXiXDwrrpnyyZABm3SFLkk2bHlheeKU6Yql4pcmSVym1AS4 dV8y0oHAfdlSCF6tpOPf2+K9nW1CFA8b/tw4oJBTtfZ1kxXOMdyZU5fiG7xb1qDgpQKgHUX8 7Rd2T1UVLVeuhYlXNw2F+a2ucY+cMoqz3LtpksUiBppJhw099gEXehcN2JbUZ2TueJdt1FdS ztnZmsHUXLxrRBtGwqnFL7GSd6snpGIKuuL305iaOGODbb9c7ne1JqBbkw1wh8ci6vvwGlzx rexzimRaBzJxlkjNfMx8WpCvYebGMydNoeEtkWldtjTNVsUAtQARAQABzR5BbmRyaXkgR2Fw b24gPGF2Z0BGcmVlQlNELm9yZz7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQS+LEO7ngQnXA4Bjr538m7TUc1yjwUC WbgsiAIbIwUJBaOagAULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRB38m7TUc1yj+JAEACV l9AK/nOWAt/9cufV2fRj0hdOqB1aCshtSrwHk/exXsDa4/FkmegxXQGY+3GWX3deIyesbVRL rYdtdK0dqJyT1SBqXK1h3/at9rxr9GQA6KWOxTjUFURsU7ok/6SIlm8uLRPNKO+yq0GDjgaO LzN+xykuBA0FlhQAXJnpZLcVfPJdWv7sSHGedL5ln8P8rxR+XnmsA5TUaaPcbhTB+mG+iKFj GghASDSfGqLWFPBlX/fpXikBDZ1gvOr8nyMY9nXhgfXpq3B6QCRYKPy58ChrZ5weeJZ29b7/ QdEO8NFNWHjSD9meiLdWQaqo9Y7uUxN3wySc/YUZxtS0bhAd8zJdNPsJYG8sXgKjeBQMVGuT eCAJFEYJqbwWvIXMfVWop4+O4xB+z2YE3jAbG/9tB/GSnQdVSj3G8MS80iLS58frnt+RSEw/ psahrfh0dh6SFHttE049xYiC+cM8J27Aaf0i9RflyITq57NuJm+AHJoU9SQUkIF0nc6lfA+o JRiyRlHZHKoRQkIg4aiKaZSWjQYRl5Txl0IZUP1dSWMX4s3XTMurC/pnja45dge/4ESOtJ9R 8XuIWg45Oq6MeIWdjKddGhRj3OohsltKgkEU3eLKYtB6qRTQypHHUawCXz88uYt5e3w4V16H lCpSTZV/EVHnNe45FVBlvK7k7HFfDDkryM7BTQRZuCyIARAAlq0slcsVboY/+IUJdcbEiJRW be9HKVz4SUchq0z9MZPX/0dcnvz/gkyYA+OuM78dNS7Mbby5dTvOqfpLJfCuhaNYOhlE0wY+ 1T6Tf1f4c/uA3U/YiadukQ3+6TJuYGAdRZD5EqYFIkreARTVWg87N9g0fT9BEqLw9lJtEGDY EWUE7L++B8o4uu3LQFEYxcrb4K/WKmgtmFcm77s0IKDrfcX4doV92QTIpLiRxcOmCC/OCYuO jB1oaaqXQzZrCutXRK0L5XN1Y1PYjIrEzHMIXmCDlLYnpFkK+itlXwlE2ZQxkfMruCWdQXye syl2fynAe8hvp7Mms9qU2r2K9EcJiR5N1t1C2/kTKNUhcRv7Yd/vwusK7BqJbhlng5ZgRx0m WxdntU/JLEntz3QBsBsWM9Y9wf2V4tLv6/DuDBta781RsCB/UrU2zNuOEkSixlUiHxw1dccI 6CVlaWkkJBxmHX22GdDFrcjvwMNIbbyfQLuBq6IOh8nvu9vuItup7qemDG3Ms6TVwA7BD3j+ 3fGprtyW8Fd/RR2bW2+LWkMrqHffAr6Y6V3h5kd2G9Q8ZWpEJk+LG6Mk3fhZhmCnHhDu6CwN MeUvxXDVO+fqc3JjFm5OxhmfVeJKrbCEUJyM8ESWLoNHLqjywdZga4Q7P12g8DUQ1mRxYg/L HgZY3zfKOqcAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBL4sQ7ueBCdcDgGOvnfybtNRzXKPBQJZuCyIAhsM BQkFo5qAAAoJEHfybtNRzXKPBVwQAKfFy9P7N3OsLDMB56A4Kf+ZT+d5cIx0Yiaf4n6w7m3i ImHHHk9FIetI4Xe54a2IXh4Bq5UkAGY0667eIs+Z1Ea6I2i27Sdo7DxGwq09Qnm/Y65ADvXs 3aBvokCcm7FsM1wky395m8xUos1681oV5oxgqeRI8/76qy0hD9WR65UW+HQgZRIcIjSel9vR XDaD2HLGPTTGr7u4v00UeTMs6qvPsa2PJagogrKY8RXdFtXvweQFz78NbXhluwix2Tb9ETPk LIpDrtzV73CaE2aqBG/KrboXT2C67BgFtnk7T7Y7iKq4/XvEdDWscz2wws91BOXuMMd4c/c4 OmGW9m3RBLufFrOag1q5yUS9QbFfyqL6dftJP3Zq/xe+mr7sbWbhPVCQFrH3r26mpmy841ym dwQnNcsbIGiBASBSKksOvIDYKa2Wy8htPmWFTEOPRpFXdGQ27awcjjnB42nngyCK5ukZDHi6 w0qK5DNQQCkiweevCIC6wc3p67jl1EMFY5+z+zdTPb3h7LeVnGqW0qBQl99vVFgzLxchKcl0 R/paSFgwqXCZhAKMuUHncJuynDOP7z5LirUeFI8qsBAJi1rXpQoLJTVcW72swZ42IdPiboqx NbTMiNOiE36GqMcTPfKylCbF45JNX4nF9ElM0E+Y8gi4cizJYBRr2FBJgay0b9Cp Message-ID: <4e11a6d6-f955-cfb0-8d35-d274c988c6b5@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 00:15:23 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5B1123D5.6060307@grosbein.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 21:15:28 -0000 On 01/06/2018 13:45, Eugene Grosbein wrote: > On 01.06.2018 16:16, Andrey V. Elsukov wrote: >> On 01.06.2018 00:07, Warner Losh wrote: >>> So, is this idea? Nope. However, it's clear that the project doesn't have >>> the resources to re-validate bugs as still being a bug, at least given the >>> volume of bugs in our bug database. This is not a terrible "second best" >>> idea that should help the signal / noise ratio of the PR database, which >>> makes it more valuable to developers and others that might fancy fixing a >>> bug. >> >> The one thing that I like in GNATS and lack now, it sends weekly reports >> with list of assigned bugs. This was handy. Each committer and also a >> project mailing list got such list every week. And this was a good >> reminder to take a look to open bugs, to fixed and not yet closed bugs, etc. > > +1 > > Can we get weekly notifications back? I always deleted those annoying emails. Bugzilla provides tools to create personal filters (searches). You can create one that would produce a list of bugs that you are interested in or potentially interested in. Whenever you have some spare time and you are in mood to fix some bugs, you can open your bug list and go through it. If you do not have any spare time or you are not in mood to fix someone else's problems, then the notifications / reminders are not going to change much. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Jun 2 00:07:47 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF16BEFF336 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 00:07:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from allanjude@freebsd.org) Received: from mx1.scaleengine.net (mx1.scaleengine.net [209.51.186.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FBAF7DFC3 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 00:07:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from allanjude@freebsd.org) Received: from [10.1.1.2] (Seawolf.HML3.ScaleEngine.net [209.51.186.28]) (Authenticated sender: allanjude.freebsd@scaleengine.com) by mx1.scaleengine.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 242E21E63F for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 00:07:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <1407.1527801278@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Allan Jude Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=allanjude@freebsd.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFVwZcYBEADwrZDH0xe0ZVjc9ORCc6PcBLwS/RTXA6NkvpD6ea02pZ8lPOVgteuuugFc D34LdDbiWr+479vfrKBh+Y38GL0oZ0/13j10tIlDMHSa5BU0y6ACtnhupFvVlQ57+XaJAb/q 7qkfSiuxVwQ3FY3PL3cl1RrIP5eGHLA9hu4eVbu+FOX/q/XVKz49HaeIaxzo2Q54572VzIo6 C28McX9m65UL5fXMUGJDDLCItLmehZlHsQQ+uBxvODLFpVV2lUgDR/0rDa0B9zHZX8jY8qQ7 ZdCSy7CwClXI054CkXZCaBzgxYh/CotdI8ezmaw7NLs5vWNTxaDEFXaFMQtMVhvqQBpHkfOD 7rjjOmFw00nJL4FuPE5Yut0CPyx8vLjVmNJSt/Y8WxxmhutsqJYFgYfWl/vaWkrFLur/Zcmz IklwLw35HLsCZytCN5A3rGKdRbQjD6QPXOTJu0JPrJF6t2xFkWAT7oxnSV0ELhl2g+JfMMz2 Z1PDmS3NRnyEdqEm7NoRGXJJ7bgxDbN+9SXTyOletqGNXj/bSrBvhvZ0RQrzdHAPwQUfVSU2 qBhQEi2apSZstgVNMan0GUPqCdbE2zpysg+zT7Yhvf9EUQbzPL4LpdK1llT9fZbrdMzEXvEF oSvwJFdV3sqKmZc7b+E3PuxK6GTsKqaukd/3Cj8aLHG1T1im1QARAQABzSJBbGxhbiBKdWRl IDxhbGxhbmp1ZGVAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc+wsF/BBMBAgApBQJVcGXGAhsjBQkSzAMABwsJCAcD AgEGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQGZU1PhKYC34Muw/+JOKpSfhhysWFYiRXynGRDe07 Z6pVsn7DzrPUMRNZfHu8Uujmmy3p2nx9FelIY9yjd2UKHhug+whM54MiIFs90eCRVa4XEsPR 4FFAm0DAWrrb7qhZFcE/GhHdRWpZ341WAElWf6Puj2devtRjfYbikvj5+1V1QmDbju7cEw5D mEET44pTuD2VMRJpu2yZZzkM0i+wKFuPxlhqreufA1VNkZXI/rIfkYWK+nkXd9Efw3YdCyCQ zUgTUCb88ttSqcyhik/li1CDbXBpkzDCKI6I/8fAb7jjOC9LAtrZJrdgONywcVFoyK9ZN7EN AVA+xvYCmuYhR/3zHWH1g4hAm1v1+gIsufhajhfo8/wY1SetlzPaYkSkVQLqD8T6zZyhf+AN bC7ci44UsiKGAplB3phAXrtSPUEqM86kbnHg3fSx37kWKUiYNOnx4AC2VXvEiKsOBlpyt3dw WQbOtOYM+vkfbBwDtoGOOPYAKxc4LOIt9r+J8aD+gTooi9Eo5tvphATf9WkCpl9+aaGbSixB tUpvQMRnSMqTqq4Z7DeiG6VMRQIjsXDSLJEUqcfhnLFo0Ko/RiaHd5xyAQ4DhQ9QpkyQjjNf /3f/dYG7JAtoD30txaQ5V8uHrz210/77DRRX+HJjEj6xCxWUGvQgvEZf5XXyxeePvqZ+zQyT DX61bYw6w6bOwU0EVXBlxgEQAMy7YVnCCLN4oAOBVLZ5nUbVPvpUhsdA94/0/P+uqCIh28Cz ar56OCX0X19N/nAWecxL4H32zFbIRyDB2V/MEh4p9Qvyu/j4i1r3Ex5GhOT2hnit43Ng46z5 29Es4TijrHJP4/l/rB2VOqMKBS7Cq8zk1cWqaI9XZ59imxDNjtLLPPM+zQ1yE3OAMb475QwN UgWxTMw8rkA7CEaqeIn4sqpTSD5C7kT1Bh26+rbgJDZ77D6Uv1LaCZZOaW52okW3bFbdozV8 yM2u+xz2Qs8bHz67p+s+BlygryiOyYytpkiK6Iy4N7FTolyj5EIwCuqzfk0SaRHeOKX2ZRjC qatkgoD/t13PNT38V9tw3qZVOJDS0W6WM8VSg+F+bkM9LgJ8CmKV+Hj0k3pfGfYPOZJ/v18i +SmZmL/Uw2RghnwDWGAsPCKu4uZR777iw7n9Io6Vfxndw2dcS0e9klvFYoaGS6H2F13Asygr WBzFNGFQscN4mUW+ZYBzpTOcHkdT7w8WS55BmXYLna+dYer9/HaAuUrONjujukN4SPS1fMJ2 /CS/idAUKyyVVX5vozoNK2JVC1h1zUAVsdnmhEzNPsvBoqcVNfyqBFROEVLIPwq+lQMGNVjH ekLTKRWf59MEhUC2ztjSKkGmwdg73d6xSXMuq45EgIJV2wPvOgWQonoHH/kxABEBAAHCwWUE GAECAA8FAlVwZcYCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQGZU1PhKYC34w5A//YViBtZyDV5O+SJT9FFO3lb9x Zdxf0trA3ooCt7gdBkdnBM6T5EmjgVZ3KYYyFfwXZVkteuCCycMF/zVw5eE9FL1+zz9gg663 nY9q2F77TZTKXVWOLlOV2bY+xaK94U4ytogOGhh9b4UnQ/Ct3+6aviCF78Go608BXbmF/GVT 7uhddemk7ItxM1gE5Hscx3saxGKlayaOsdPKeGTVJCDEtHDuOc7/+jGh5Zxpk/Hpi+DUt1ot 8e6hPYLIQa4uVx4f1xxxV858PQ7QysSLr9pTV7FAQ18JclCaMc7JWIa3homZQL/MNKOfST0S 2e+msuRwQo7AnnfFKBUtb02KwpA4GhWryhkjUh/kbVc1wmGxaU3DgXYQ5GV5+Zf4kk/wqr/7 KG0dkTz6NLCVLyDlmAzuFhf66DJ3zzz4yIo3pbDYi3HB/BwJXVSKB3Ko0oUo+6/qMrOIS02L s++QE/z7K12CCcs7WwOjfCYHK7VtE0Sr/PfybBdTbuDncOuAyAIeIKxdI2nmQHzl035hhvQX s4CSghsP319jAOQiIolCeSbTMD4QWMK8RL/Pe1FI1jC3Nw9s+jq8Dudtbcj2UwAP/STUEbJ9 5rznzuuhPjE0e++EU/RpWmcaIMK/z1zZDMN+ce2v1qzgV936ZhJ3iaVzyqbEE81gDxg3P+IM kiYh4ZtPB4Q= Message-ID: <1e0e3db1-f1d6-b225-df3e-182c0ed71818@freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 20:07:43 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="TT1I4uakRtLBT0fAdgg6wgJKjxiH7LCsH" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2018 00:07:48 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --TT1I4uakRtLBT0fAdgg6wgJKjxiH7LCsH Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Rl5PYaMOEqQ1WgxhNtmAK3BaQQSapgfyC"; protected-headers="v1" From: Allan Jude To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1e0e3db1-f1d6-b225-df3e-182c0ed71818@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( References: <1407.1527801278@critter.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: --Rl5PYaMOEqQ1WgxhNtmAK3BaQQSapgfyC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2018-06-01 11:27, Kristof Provost wrote: > On 1 Jun 2018, at 17:09, Warner Losh wrote: >> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:53 AM, wrote: >>>> On 1 Jun 2018, at 15:41, Warner Losh wrote: >>> The sad truth is that only about 10-15% of them have comitable >>> patches in >>> them when submitted. And that number decays over time as things age i= n >>> bugzilla. [etc] >>> >>> Sure. But the best a non-comitter can do is to supply a patch tested >>> against HEAD. If the patch rots because it hasn=E2=80=99t been commit= ted six >>> months >>> down the line it=E2=80=99s not my fault. >>> >> >> Well, not quite true. I've had several people send me pointers to bugs= >> over >> the years and engage me when I tell them that the patch isn't quite >> right. >> That conversation is easier, to my mind, in Phabricator, though. >> There's no >> substitute for making good connections and motivating volunteers to >> want to >> help you. That gives much better results than filing and forgetting an= d >> hoping for the best. As a committer, I find it a low return on investm= ent >> to go looking at random PRs. I find it a much higher return on investm= ent >> when I have a history with someone (even a short one). >> >> Fixing this broken state of affairs is not going to be easy... >> > This is also true for bug reports with no patches attached to them. > Bug reports with more information, more reports from people affected by= the > same bug, simplified test cases, follow-up with confirmation that other= > versions are affected too and so on are more likely to attract attentio= n. >=20 > For better or worse, the fact is that both patches and bug reports fare= > better > if their submitter actively advocates for them. >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t mean to suggest that it is somehow the fault of the sub= mitter if > bugs > don=E2=80=99t get fixed. Instead I want to point at this as something p= eople can > do to > help, even if they don=E2=80=99t have commit access, or even if they do= n't know > how to > read or write code. >=20 > Regards, > Kristof > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" This point was well made by one of Ed Maste's interns for the spring semester. A good glimpse into the 'new contributor' experience: https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/blog/guest-blog-what-i-learned-during-m= y-freebsd-internship/ --=20 Allan Jude --Rl5PYaMOEqQ1WgxhNtmAK3BaQQSapgfyC-- --TT1I4uakRtLBT0fAdgg6wgJKjxiH7LCsH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJbEd/SAAoJEBmVNT4SmAt+0I4QAI5X1eguhlwDR4U4/ua2Y6oQ hf1WYAYL/jsORd/kh2XkRW+UlogTI/XeKbjN5ZmwK2IYepcnB/wqfU6kyuQSloHX t4ktIJQS4iXVsLN4NS11uWhOSqAw6cGfznncZHTQaYS5Sc7dBQmUuH4aVqXpYepW Ql1N6ZLuRQCuaxoVwOdqwzdEitzwEcf0rDBsvgfDjdytoVEWR33euVTxo2f3ypoq kV5br0rcA4lCfl3NkcA0rLcsnDm4/6rBwqfbFQg5+LFZ+teLgvxEeILUD59qWL63 HRiCvb2c5LCpvwMVPhYmgTFeu19K6yCjHnxWt9hVP3Tb4eu34qVMFOmtA+x7y6BZ zY61x79qTJ91wmrKvgtaAO1F4+XSzFHCny4P3sXZmChiWDp5hxnfMFu1pumtss8K tV7B/o0KPl6tre0ISpYZnRCB9beJiBH0EWwXWhz7r8KlM0DzQEZ5Y78xNmJ9x1kW UsJ+iu8obbjyn3MaxHE2LWkadv6I5BppB69EBP63ZHUtFogrz9Fb3++8Aew/6tpV 6BxCqSklnYR8EEp2kBBacS9vge0Y05+aXD09nu5U+dS/+WBZt7zTD/dMTriTXSE8 SdmoNLmnkANeHZ6bQnv58oxgmvbepxPur/733AyY1C45B8PdFE6SF6Wcl8l+x2S9 YV2LSb9AK4cuvylkNUPV =lGOw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --TT1I4uakRtLBT0fAdgg6wgJKjxiH7LCsH-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Jun 2 06:48:25 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70AEAF7EBB6 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 06:48:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ske@pkmab.se) Received: from mail1.bemta25.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta25.messagelabs.com [195.245.230.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E64BE70437 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 06:48:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ske@pkmab.se) Received: from [46.226.52.196] (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits)) by server-3.bemta.az-b.eu-west-1.aws.symcld.net id 46/C6-23039-F0C321B5; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:41:19 +0000 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrGIsWRWlGSWpSXmKPExsVycM+PA7r8NkL RBm3ruCy2b/7H6MDoMePTfJYAxijWzLyk/IoE1oxNlx6wFPQrVryZfZipgfG7VBcjF4eQwClG ia+v3rFCOCeAnG2PmCCcaYwSZ5a1sXcxcnIIC5hLzGtrB0pwcIgIyEssOG8PEmYR0JU48/AAM 4jNLBAi8aF5HZjNKZAnceFjKyuILSGgIPFlxzwwm1dAUOLkzCcsEPU6Eu/6HoDVswloSMy71c 8CUWMqceDKJ0aI3mCJjls72CFsNYmr5zZB7dKWWLbwNfMERoFZSMbOQjJ2FpKyBYzMqxjNk4o y0zNKchMzc3QNDQx0DQ2NdA0tzXWNzPUSq3ST9FJLdctTi0t0DfUSy4v1iitzk3NS9PJSSzYx AsOXAQh2MK68kHyIUZKDSUmU91mVYLQQX1J+SmVGYnFGfFFpTmrxIUYZDg4lCV5ua6FoIcGi1 PTUirTMHGAkwaQlOHiURHi5QNK8xQWJucWZ6RCpU4yKUuK8fVZACQGQREZpHlwbLHovMcpKCf MyAh0ixFOQWpSbWYIq/4pRnINRSZj3MsgUnsy8Erjpr4AWMwEtfi0rALK4JBEhJdXA6Bt60fZ EkY4y/3muG9f55d4n9XqJef8XUn2/76a0+ZegmxuOLTgf1DVL/FXJ7KgD02vXu99fdm21c8uE gzfX1BU11cjvTDc/f/7z6Qli63/YG7tY+H2OnW50R9uw6UyCQ8+aOZyzrT5Ypq7yEXU7d6t17 +c+tu54WffJC/yXa2jt2ercUbSwQYmlOCPRUIu5qDgRAKkDXl/ZAgAA X-Env-Sender: ske@pkmab.se X-Msg-Ref: server-27.tower-284.messagelabs.com!1527921678!1499614!1 X-Originating-IP: [193.188.248.192] X-SYMC-ESS-Client-Auth: outbound-route-from=fail X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 9.9.15; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 3613 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2018 06:41:19 -0000 Received: from cdo-smtp31.composeit.net (HELO cdo-smtp31.composeit.net) (193.188.248.192) by server-27.tower-284.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2018 06:41:19 -0000 Received: from cdo-smtp31.composeit.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cdo-smtp31.composeit.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A9C1D2E8 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 08:41:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from psy-app005.precio.lan (unknown [10.112.7.132]) by cdo-smtp31.composeit.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DD411D2E3 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 08:41:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from berenice.precio.lan ([172.27.68.201]) by psy-app005.precio.lan with Microsoft SMTPSVC(8.5.9600.16384); Sat, 2 Jun 2018 08:41:18 +0200 Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 08:41:16 +0200 (CETDST) Cc: imp@bsdimp.com, dieterbsd@gmail.com, phk@phk.freebsd.dk, kristof@sigsegv.be In-Reply-To: from "Kristof Provost" at Jun 1, 18 05:27:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 From: Kristoffer Eriksson Message-ID: <201806020841.aa01298@berenice.pkmab.se> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 2018 06:41:18.0244 (UTC) FILETIME=[B601F640:01D3FA3C] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 02 Jun 2018 11:19:40 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:48:25 -0000 On Jun 1, 2018 at 17:27, Kristof Provost wrote: > On 1 Jun 2018, at 17:09, Warner Losh wrote: >> Well, not quite true. I've had several people send me pointers to >> bugs over the years and engage me when I tell them that the patch >> isn't quite right. >> That conversation is easier, to my mind, in Phabricator, though. >> There's no substitute for making good connections and motivating >> volunteers to want to help you. That gives much better results >> than filing and forgetting and hoping for the best. As a committer, >> I find it a low return on investment to go looking at random PRs. >> I find it a much higher return on investment when I have a history >> with someone (even a short one). ... > For better or worse, the fact is that both patches and bug reports > fare better if their submitter actively advocates for them. > > I don't mean to suggest that it is somehow the fault of the submitter > if bugs don't get fixed. Instead I want to point at this as something > people can do to help, even if they don't have commit access, or even > if they don't know how to read or write code. As a submitter of a few bug reports in bugzilla, it would have been extremely useful to me if there had been some hints somewhere in the bug report submission process about what I could do to follow up and promote that report (or fix) to relevant people or forums, in stead of only finding that out much later when asking on the mailing list for any response. As a first-time submitter, you naturally assume that after submitting a good detailed bug report, your job is done, and that there is really nothing more you can do (for those who are not able to fix the bug themselves). Nothing in bugzilla gives any reason to think otherwise (as far as I remember). And that is very misleading. Maybe(?) there is some information about that somewhere else, but you really can't read absolutely everything there is in the whole project before submitting a bug report. - Also, for those who are able to also submit patches together with their bug reports, maybe more could be done to guide them on how to improve their patches on the way to a more committable state? But preferrably not in a way that discourages people from submitting anything at all. I would guess that many times, a patch submitted by a bug reporter may just be meant to serve as a proof or example that the bug is real and goes away if certain changes are made to the source code, and not necessarily as a production quality committable fix. Or anything in between those two. Even then, having a patch should be much better than having nothing, for the maintainer (or who-ever tries to fix the bug) to work with, but not necessarily meant to be committed as-is. Maybe it would be helpful if the submitter would be asked to self- grade what they think their patch is good for, on some kind of scale? Or indicate what steps they have already done (or not done) themselves in the process from plain bug report to submittable patch, if a couple of such steps could be suggested. - Another question that occurs to me: Who is it that is supposed to take an interrest in the bug reports? Is just any random volunteer supposed to come by, who doesn't know anything, and look at them if they feel like it? And then be able to fix them? That doesn't seem very likely to happen. Maybe occasionally, but not sustainably. I would think that if there was a bug report relating to some code created or maintained by a specific person or group of persons or some upstreams project, then the chances would increase significantly if the report was sent raight away to that group of people. For instance, if I would have created some small part of the FreeBSD software, or ported some software to it, or if some other woftware that I created would be ported to FreeBSD, then I would like to receive any bug reports relating to that specific part. (Personally I would even be interrested if there were some bug reports in the same parts of code that I have submitted patches for before, which I have indeed done.) Does that not happen in bugzilla? Doesn't bugzilla have any information about who maintains or who created various parts of the project? Regards/Kristoffer Eriksson From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Jun 2 11:07:34 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11098F795CE for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 11:07:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan.kokemueller@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr0-x244.google.com (mail-wr0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FA0F7B343 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 11:07:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan.kokemueller@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr0-x244.google.com with SMTP id d8-v6so7376745wro.4 for ; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 04:07:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LhLezD5ncgOlfqXh6pjAgSfj1v6kTzhlcFt2pURnuE8=; b=VkN17QQLsfxaXMCxDt4Q9jveTU7m5esclD0E68u0WhsfeTsJMfnCny8L5aiNPcZlcN 8We3/9EQV7uPfI+t+0+acvwrlsAy48hPYRRxnka/kpGm2byVKyphqokFKuWH7jOamKEQ zhZ+Ky62mfPssgez+hzRozXZkNzRSfl29nc/K/tNPskUT+y641mwCih+jmsoQpHXP3mr I/l4OsHsRwFhm1SXuJqVtsKc5duP11XXFtiPBuaqxeIEBliNFG8Qej0lGIfzkSNr3439 iQ+01YrqPaYa2uozMwvNgvkMxgo546hFaIaHvV56YG/Lp2wzv1ICBGEjun6GLYNL2wp6 rfoQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LhLezD5ncgOlfqXh6pjAgSfj1v6kTzhlcFt2pURnuE8=; b=sNp/YXgbRXxc7+9kgaBoINtmmaedpzsWeUzunsGkT6/7byPJvUx9HtV/V79M0aunsq kB+8UecBURheOLCgPA5MjxbL3Zn5e9RvId9nuBPpIwCi7EpKVmdZV91KavwInv+YOL8I t5O5+yxCv2voBCVJSSSqWXX6wB1Sao5QyR/oCAsXWeRvg7oScqaxUzf4kwxFTumKp3rg I/LBZPIXWlL3WZTABiEP6QONLnBGrNYkrdaY3EmHZf2jq8hJVulF7Z4lQubYlxR1ZbyL T2HOPV7GnsHl5aYaDhWm/trHkxqrIGsTLNrjW1Hh7S/1H/E9nuoe5a1JmYpd3RIV1DBF utLw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPweb5wI1k1HhWbCapWcaKLxfQhFwoks/+ZRObTeF6OLvYAkzhH2c DCMbr6x5oJtBpCWGYfoH1qvxHw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJlmKFvIKCDbRgtKhc3GyNy9o1id2a7wWOJ8jrEIFBw9ft6SOqBcLfwVF7uxusmxdfruC9+BA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:c32b:: with SMTP id n40-v6mr11499559wrf.91.1527937651573; Sat, 02 Jun 2018 04:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] (p5B36C3F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [91.54.195.248]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id e133-v6sm5114153wma.38.2018.06.02.04.07.30 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 02 Jun 2018 04:07:30 -0700 (PDT) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jan_Kokem=c3=bcller?= Subject: Fixing CLOCK_MONOTONIC during ACPI suspend To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 13:07:29 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 02 Jun 2018 11:21:30 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2018 11:07:34 -0000 Hi, I'm trying to fix the monotonic clock during suspend. Currently, IPv6 timers don't expire during suspend because time stops. See also this mail [1] by Bruce Evans. I've been running the attached (very rough) patch for some time now. It saves the RTC before suspend and adds the delta after resume to the current time. Some open issues/questions: - kevent/poll semantics would change because those calls implicitly use CLOCK_MONOTONIC. Linux kept CLOCK_MONOTONIC as is and introduced CLOCK_BOOTTIME with 'fixed' semantics. - What should happen to CLOCK_UPTIME? When OpenBSD fixed CLOCK_MONOTONIC, they kept CLOCK_UPTIME at the old behavior. They needed to switch some programs from CLOCK_MONOTONIC to CLOCK_UPTIME because they relied on the old behaviour. What do you think? [1]: https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-arch/2013-August/014707.html diff --git a/sys/dev/acpica/acpi.c b/sys/dev/acpica/acpi.c index b9de85d236ed..0b0d2418737e 100644 --- a/sys/dev/acpica/acpi.c +++ b/sys/dev/acpica/acpi.c @@ -34,6 +34,7 @@ __FBSDID("$FreeBSD$"); #include #include +#include #include #include #include @@ -161,7 +162,7 @@ static ACPI_STATUS acpi_EnterSleepState(struct acpi_softc *sc, int state); static void acpi_shutdown_final(void *arg, int howto); static void acpi_enable_fixed_events(struct acpi_softc *sc); static BOOLEAN acpi_has_hid(ACPI_HANDLE handle); -static void acpi_resync_clock(struct acpi_softc *sc); +static void acpi_resync_clock(struct acpi_softc *sc, struct timespec *naptime); static int acpi_wake_sleep_prep(ACPI_HANDLE handle, int sstate); static int acpi_wake_run_prep(ACPI_HANDLE handle, int sstate); static int acpi_wake_prep_walk(int sstate); @@ -2862,6 +2863,10 @@ enum acpi_sleep_state { ACPI_SS_SLEPT, }; +void tc_reset_offset(void); + +// static struct timespec old_sys_rtc_delta; + /* * Enter the desired system sleep state. * @@ -2934,6 +2939,25 @@ acpi_EnterSleepState(struct acpi_softc *sc, int state) acpi_wake_prep_walk(state); slp_state = ACPI_SS_GPE_SET; + + struct timespec old_rtc_ts = { 0 }; + getrtctime(&old_rtc_ts); + + struct timespec old_sys_ts; + nanouptime(&old_sys_ts); + + // struct timespec sys_rtc_delta = old_sys_ts; + // timespecsub(&sys_rtc_delta, &old_rtc_ts); + + // struct timespec sys_rtc_delta_delta = sys_rtc_delta; + // timespecsub(&sys_rtc_delta_delta, &old_sys_rtc_delta); + + // if (sys_rtc_delta_delta.tv_sec <= -2 || sys_rtc_delta_delta.tv_sec >= 2) { + // old_sys_rtc_delta = sys_rtc_delta; + // } else { + // timespecsub(&old_sys_ts, &sys_rtc_delta_delta); + // } + /* * Inform all devices that we are going to sleep. If at least one * device fails, DEVICE_SUSPEND() automatically resumes the tree. @@ -2946,6 +2970,7 @@ acpi_EnterSleepState(struct acpi_softc *sc, int state) device_printf(sc->acpi_dev, "device_suspend failed\n"); goto backout; } + slp_state = ACPI_SS_DEV_SUSPEND; status = AcpiEnterSleepStatePrep(state); @@ -2956,15 +2981,50 @@ acpi_EnterSleepState(struct acpi_softc *sc, int state) } slp_state = ACPI_SS_SLP_PREP; + // printf("print ACPI 1\n"); + if (sc->acpi_sleep_delay > 0) DELAY(sc->acpi_sleep_delay * 1000000); suspendclock(); + // printf("print ACPI 2, clock suspended\n"); + intr = intr_disable(); + // printf("print ACPI 3\n"); if (state != ACPI_STATE_S1) { + // printf("print ACPI 4\n"); sleep_result = acpi_sleep_machdep(sc, state); + // printf("print ACPI 4 pre warmup, sleepresult %d\n", (int)sleep_result); + + /* + * Warm up timecounter again. + */ + // (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); + // (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); + // (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); + // (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); + // (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); + + // printf("print ACPI 4 post warmup\n"); + + tc_reset_offset(); + acpi_wakeup_machdep(sc, state, sleep_result, 0); + // printf("print ACPI 5\n"); + // printf("print ACPI 5 pre warmup\n"); + + /* + * Warm up timecounter again. + */ + // (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); + // (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); + // (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); + // (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); + // (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); + + // printf("print ACPI 5 post warmup\n"); + /* * XXX According to ACPI specification SCI_EN bit should be restored * by ACPI platform (BIOS, firmware) to its pre-sleep state. @@ -2979,6 +3039,8 @@ acpi_EnterSleepState(struct acpi_softc *sc, int state) AcpiLeaveSleepStatePrep(state); + // printf("print ACPI 6\n"); + if (sleep_result == 1 && state == ACPI_STATE_S3) { /* * Prevent mis-interpretation of the wakeup by power button @@ -3002,17 +3064,25 @@ acpi_EnterSleepState(struct acpi_softc *sc, int state) } } + // printf("print ACPI 7\n"); + intr_restore(intr); + // printf("print ACPI 8\n"); + /* call acpi_wakeup_machdep() again with interrupt enabled */ acpi_wakeup_machdep(sc, state, sleep_result, 1); + // printf("print ACPI 9\n"); + if (sleep_result == -1) goto backout; /* Re-enable ACPI hardware on wakeup from sleep state 4. */ if (state == ACPI_STATE_S4) AcpiEnable(); + + // printf("print ACPI 10\n"); } else { status = AcpiEnterSleepState(state); AcpiLeaveSleepStatePrep(state); @@ -3032,21 +3102,65 @@ acpi_EnterSleepState(struct acpi_softc *sc, int state) backout: if (slp_state >= ACPI_SS_SLP_PREP) resumeclock(); + // printf("print ACPI 11, clock resumed\n"); if (slp_state >= ACPI_SS_GPE_SET) { acpi_wake_prep_walk(state); sc->acpi_sstate = ACPI_STATE_S0; } + // printf("print ACPI 12\n"); + + // printf("print ACPI 12 pre warmup\n"); + + /* + * Warm up timecounter again. + */ + (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); + (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); + + // printf("print ACPI 12 post warmup\n"); + if (slp_state >= ACPI_SS_DEV_SUSPEND) DEVICE_RESUME(root_bus); + // printf("print ACPI 13\n"); if (slp_state >= ACPI_SS_SLP_PREP) AcpiLeaveSleepState(state); + // printf("print ACPI 14\n"); if (slp_state >= ACPI_SS_SLEPT) { #if defined(__i386__) || defined(__amd64__) /* NB: we are still using ACPI timecounter at this point. */ resume_TSC(); #endif - acpi_resync_clock(sc); + + struct timespec new_sys_ts; + nanouptime(&new_sys_ts); + + struct timespec new_rtc_ts = { 0 }; + getrtctime(&new_rtc_ts); + + struct timespec naptime = new_rtc_ts; + timespecsub(&naptime, &old_rtc_ts); + + struct timespec run_between_time = new_sys_ts; + timespecsub(&run_between_time, &old_sys_ts); + + timespecsub(&naptime, &run_between_time); + + // dummy advance + // naptime.tv_sec += 29000; + + acpi_resync_clock(sc, + (naptime.tv_sec >= 0 && old_rtc_ts.tv_sec != 0 && + new_rtc_ts.tv_sec != 0) ? + &naptime : + NULL); + acpi_enable_fixed_events(sc); + + // printf("oldrtc: %d: newrtc %d naptime: %d rbt: %d\n", + // (int)old_rtc_ts.tv_sec, + // (int)new_rtc_ts.tv_sec, + // (int)naptime.tv_sec, + // (int)run_between_time.tv_sec); } sc->acpi_next_sstate = 0; @@ -3064,9 +3178,8 @@ acpi_EnterSleepState(struct acpi_softc *sc, int state) } #endif - resume_all_proc(); - EVENTHANDLER_INVOKE(power_resume); + resume_all_proc(); /* Allow another sleep request after a while. */ callout_schedule(&acpi_sleep_timer, hz * ACPI_MINIMUM_AWAKETIME); @@ -3079,15 +3192,10 @@ acpi_EnterSleepState(struct acpi_softc *sc, int state) } static void -acpi_resync_clock(struct acpi_softc *sc) +acpi_resync_clock(struct acpi_softc *sc, struct timespec *naptime) { - - /* - * Warm up timecounter again and reset system clock. - */ - (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); - (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); - inittodr(time_second + sc->acpi_sleep_delay); + // inittodr(time_second + sc->acpi_sleep_delay); + tc_addnaptime(naptime); } /* Enable or disable the device's wake GPE. */ diff --git a/sys/dev/acpica/acpi_resource.c b/sys/dev/acpica/acpi_resource.c index 21543141b90c..660352188514 100644 --- a/sys/dev/acpica/acpi_resource.c +++ b/sys/dev/acpica/acpi_resource.c @@ -344,23 +344,29 @@ acpi_parse_resource(ACPI_RESOURCE *res, void *context) break; if (res->Type == ACPI_RESOURCE_TYPE_EXTENDED_ADDRESS64 && res->Data.Address.ProducerConsumer != ACPI_CONSUMER) { +#ifdef ACPI_DEBUG ACPI_DEBUG_PRINT((ACPI_DB_RESOURCES, "ignored %s %s producer\n", name, acpi_address_range_name(res->Data.Address.ResourceType))); +#endif break; } if (res->Data.Address.ResourceType != ACPI_MEMORY_RANGE && res->Data.Address.ResourceType != ACPI_IO_RANGE) { +#ifdef ACPI_DEBUG ACPI_DEBUG_PRINT((ACPI_DB_RESOURCES, "ignored %s for non-memory, non-I/O\n", name)); +#endif break; } #ifdef __i386__ if (min > ULONG_MAX || (res->Data.Address.MaxAddressFixed && max > ULONG_MAX)) { +#ifdef ACPI_DEBUG ACPI_DEBUG_PRINT((ACPI_DB_RESOURCES, "ignored %s above 4G\n", name)); +#endif break; } if (max > ULONG_MAX) @@ -369,23 +375,31 @@ acpi_parse_resource(ACPI_RESOURCE *res, void *context) if (res->Data.Address.MinAddressFixed == ACPI_ADDRESS_FIXED && res->Data.Address.MaxAddressFixed == ACPI_ADDRESS_FIXED) { if (res->Data.Address.ResourceType == ACPI_MEMORY_RANGE) { +#ifdef ACPI_DEBUG ACPI_DEBUG_PRINT((ACPI_DB_RESOURCES, "%s/Memory 0x%jx/%ju\n", name, (uintmax_t)min, (uintmax_t)length)); +#endif set->set_memory(dev, arc->context, min, length); } else { +#ifdef ACPI_DEBUG ACPI_DEBUG_PRINT((ACPI_DB_RESOURCES, "%s/IO 0x%jx/%ju\n", name, (uintmax_t)min, (uintmax_t)length)); +#endif set->set_ioport(dev, arc->context, min, length); } } else { if (res->Data.Address32.ResourceType == ACPI_MEMORY_RANGE) { +#ifdef ACPI_DEBUG ACPI_DEBUG_PRINT((ACPI_DB_RESOURCES, "%s/Memory 0x%jx-0x%jx/%ju\n", name, (uintmax_t)min, (uintmax_t)max, (uintmax_t)length)); +#endif set->set_memoryrange(dev, arc->context, min, max, length, gran); } else { +#ifdef ACPI_DEBUG ACPI_DEBUG_PRINT((ACPI_DB_RESOURCES, "%s/IO 0x%jx-0x%jx/%ju\n", name, (uintmax_t)min, (uintmax_t)max, (uintmax_t)length)); +#endif set->set_iorange(dev, arc->context, min, max, length, gran); } } diff --git a/sys/dev/acpica/acpi_timer.c b/sys/dev/acpica/acpi_timer.c index 34a832089a23..44195e9b494a 100644 --- a/sys/dev/acpica/acpi_timer.c +++ b/sys/dev/acpica/acpi_timer.c @@ -107,11 +107,22 @@ static struct timecounter acpi_timer_timecounter = { -1 /* quality (chosen later) */ }; +static uint32_t old_timer_val; + static __inline uint32_t acpi_timer_read(void) { + uint32_t ret = bus_space_read_4(acpi_timer_bst, acpi_timer_bsh, 0); + + if (ret == (uint32_t)-1) { + // printf("return old acpi timer val instead of %lld\n", + // (long long)ret); + return (old_timer_val); + } else { + old_timer_val = ret; + } - return (bus_space_read_4(acpi_timer_bst, acpi_timer_bsh, 0)); + return (ret); } /* diff --git a/sys/kern/kern_tc.c b/sys/kern/kern_tc.c index c4e94762fe39..1b87bf24d1c2 100644 --- a/sys/kern/kern_tc.c +++ b/sys/kern/kern_tc.c @@ -29,6 +29,7 @@ __FBSDID("$FreeBSD$"); #include #include #include +#include #include #include #include @@ -133,7 +134,8 @@ volatile int rtc_generation = 1; static int tc_chosen; /* Non-zero if a specific tc was chosen via sysctl. */ -static void tc_windup(struct bintime *new_boottimebin); +static void tc_windup( + struct bintime *new_boottimebin, struct bintime *additional_naptime); static void cpu_tick_calibrate(int); void dtrace_getnanotime(struct timespec *tsp); @@ -1299,6 +1301,8 @@ tc_setclock(struct timespec *ts) struct timespec tbef, taft; struct bintime bt, bt2; + // printf("tc_setclock\n"); + timespec2bintime(ts, &bt); nanotime(&tbef); mtx_lock_spin(&tc_setclock_mtx); @@ -1307,13 +1311,13 @@ tc_setclock(struct timespec *ts) bintime_sub(&bt, &bt2); /* XXX fiddle all the little crinkly bits around the fiords... */ - tc_windup(&bt); + tc_windup(&bt, NULL); mtx_unlock_spin(&tc_setclock_mtx); /* Avoid rtc_generation == 0, since td_rtcgen == 0 is special. */ atomic_add_rel_int(&rtc_generation, 2); sleepq_chains_remove_matching(sleeping_on_old_rtc); - if (timestepwarnings) { + if (timestepwarnings || true) { nanotime(&taft); log(LOG_INFO, "Time stepped from %jd.%09ld to %jd.%09ld (%jd.%09ld)\n", @@ -1323,13 +1327,45 @@ tc_setclock(struct timespec *ts) } } +void tc_reset_offset(void); + +void +tc_reset_offset() +{ + // printf("tc_reset_offset\n"); + + mtx_lock_spin(&tc_setclock_mtx); + cpu_tick_calibrate(1); + timehands->th_offset_count = timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); + timehands->th_offset_count &= timecounter->tc_counter_mask; + mtx_unlock_spin(&tc_setclock_mtx); +} + +void +tc_addnaptime(struct timespec *ts) +{ + struct bintime bt; + + // printf("tc_addnaptime\n"); + + if (ts) { + timespec2bintime(ts, &bt); + } + mtx_lock_spin(&tc_setclock_mtx); + + /* XXX fiddle all the little crinkly bits around the fiords... */ + tc_windup(NULL, ts ? &bt : NULL); + mtx_unlock_spin(&tc_setclock_mtx); +} + + /* * Initialize the next struct timehands in the ring and make * it the active timehands. Along the way we might switch to a different * timecounter and/or do seconds processing in NTP. Slightly magic. */ static void -tc_windup(struct bintime *new_boottimebin) +tc_windup(struct bintime *new_boottimebin, struct bintime *additional_naptime) { struct bintime bt; struct timehands *th, *tho; @@ -1338,6 +1374,11 @@ tc_windup(struct bintime *new_boottimebin) int i; time_t t; + // if (new_boottimebin || additional_naptime) { + // printf( + // "tc_windup %p %p\n", new_boottimebin, additional_naptime); + // } + /* * Make the next timehands a copy of the current one, but do * not overwrite the generation or next pointer. While we @@ -1356,6 +1397,10 @@ tc_windup(struct bintime *new_boottimebin) if (new_boottimebin != NULL) th->th_boottime = *new_boottimebin; + if (additional_naptime != NULL) { + bintime_add(&th->th_offset, additional_naptime); + } + /* * Capture a timecounter delta on the current timecounter and if * changing timecounters, a counter value from the new timecounter. @@ -1369,8 +1414,17 @@ tc_windup(struct bintime *new_boottimebin) #ifdef FFCLOCK ffclock_windup(delta); #endif + // long long oc_1 = th->th_offset_count; + th->th_offset_count += delta; th->th_offset_count &= th->th_counter->tc_counter_mask; + + // long long oc_2 = th->th_offset_count; + + // long long secs1 = th->th_offset.sec; + // long long p_delta = delta; + // long long p_freq = th->th_counter->tc_frequency; + while (delta > th->th_counter->tc_frequency) { /* Eat complete unadjusted seconds. */ delta -= th->th_counter->tc_frequency; @@ -1383,6 +1437,18 @@ tc_windup(struct bintime *new_boottimebin) } bintime_addx(&th->th_offset, th->th_scale * delta); + // long long secs2 = th->th_offset.sec; + + // if (secs2 != secs1) { + // printf( + // "%p tc_windup ++ %lld (delta: %lld, freq: %lld, gen: %lld, ogen: %lld, oc1: %lld, oc2: %lld)\n", + // (void *)curthread, secs2 - secs1, p_delta, p_freq, + // (long long)th->th_generation, + // (long long)tho->th_generation, // + // (long long)oc_1, + // (long long)oc_2); + // } + /* * Hardware latching timecounters may not generate interrupts on * PPS events, so instead we poll them. There is a finite risk that @@ -1411,8 +1477,10 @@ tc_windup(struct bintime *new_boottimebin) for (; i > 0; i--) { t = bt.sec; ntp_update_second(&th->th_adjustment, &bt.sec); - if (bt.sec != t) + if (bt.sec != t) { th->th_boottime.sec += bt.sec - t; + // printf("tc_windup ntp update %d\n", (int)(bt.sec - t)); + } } /* Update the UTC timestamps used by the get*() functions. */ th->th_bintime = bt; @@ -1911,7 +1979,7 @@ tc_ticktock(int cnt) count += cnt; if (count >= tc_tick) { count = 0; - tc_windup(NULL); + tc_windup(NULL, NULL); } mtx_unlock_spin(&tc_setclock_mtx); } @@ -1990,7 +2058,7 @@ inittimecounter(void *dummy) (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); (void)timecounter->tc_get_timecount(timecounter); mtx_lock_spin(&tc_setclock_mtx); - tc_windup(NULL); + tc_windup(NULL, NULL); mtx_unlock_spin(&tc_setclock_mtx); } diff --git a/sys/kern/subr_rtc.c b/sys/kern/subr_rtc.c index 66cde8fb2e07..917fa6f5f517 100644 --- a/sys/kern/subr_rtc.c +++ b/sys/kern/subr_rtc.c @@ -422,3 +422,25 @@ sysctl_clock_do_io(SYSCTL_HANDLER_ARGS) return (0); } + +int +getrtctime(struct timespec *ts) +{ + int error; + struct rtc_instance *rtc; + + error = ENODEV; + sx_xlock(&rtc_list_lock); + LIST_FOREACH(rtc, &rtc_list, rtc_entries) + { + if ((error = CLOCK_GETTIME(rtc->clockdev, ts)) != 0) + continue; + if (ts->tv_sec < 0 || ts->tv_nsec < 0) { + error = EINVAL; + continue; + } + break; + } + sx_xunlock(&rtc_list_lock); + return error; +} diff --git a/sys/sys/time.h b/sys/sys/time.h index f278e6315d68..86e9f5d5b1f7 100644 --- a/sys/sys/time.h +++ b/sys/sys/time.h @@ -416,6 +416,7 @@ struct clockinfo { */ void inittodr(time_t base); void resettodr(void); +int getrtctime(struct timespec *ts); extern volatile time_t time_second; extern volatile time_t time_uptime; diff --git a/sys/sys/timetc.h b/sys/sys/timetc.h index 55f61af4c46c..b90aeeaf74c0 100644 --- a/sys/sys/timetc.h +++ b/sys/sys/timetc.h @@ -89,6 +89,7 @@ extern int tc_min_ticktock_freq; /* u_int64_t tc_getfrequency(void); void tc_init(struct timecounter *tc); void tc_setclock(struct timespec *ts); +void tc_addnaptime(struct timespec *ts); void tc_ticktock(int cnt); void cpu_tick_calibration(void); diff --git a/sys/x86/acpica/acpi_wakeup.c b/sys/x86/acpica/acpi_wakeup.c index ef910cca6059..c13df8d2ad0c 100644 --- a/sys/x86/acpica/acpi_wakeup.c +++ b/sys/x86/acpica/acpi_wakeup.c @@ -316,31 +316,44 @@ acpi_wakeup_machdep(struct acpi_softc *sc, int state, int sleep_result, if (!intr_enabled) { /* Wakeup MD procedures in interrupt disabled context */ + // printf("acpi_wakeup_machdep 1\n"); + if (sleep_result == 1) { + // printf("acpi_wakeup_machdep 2\n"); pmap_init_pat(); + // printf("acpi_wakeup_machdep 3\n"); initializecpu(); + // printf("acpi_wakeup_machdep 4\n"); PCPU_SET(switchtime, 0); + // printf("acpi_wakeup_machdep 5\n"); PCPU_SET(switchticks, ticks); + // printf("acpi_wakeup_machdep 6\n"); #ifdef DEV_APIC lapic_xapic_mode(); #endif + // printf("acpi_wakeup_machdep 7\n"); #ifdef SMP if (!CPU_EMPTY(&suspcpus)) acpi_wakeup_cpus(sc); #endif + // printf("acpi_wakeup_machdep 8\n"); } + // printf("acpi_wakeup_machdep 9\n"); #ifdef SMP if (!CPU_EMPTY(&suspcpus)) resume_cpus(suspcpus); #endif + // printf("acpi_wakeup_machdep 10\n"); mca_resume(); #ifdef __amd64__ if (vmm_resume_p != NULL) vmm_resume_p(); #endif + // printf("acpi_wakeup_machdep 11\n"); intr_resume(/*suspend_cancelled*/false); + // printf("acpi_wakeup_machdep 12\n"); AcpiSetFirmwareWakingVector(0, 0); } else { /* Wakeup MD procedures in interrupt enabled context */ From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Jun 2 12:24:26 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CD3FD1962 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 12:24:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ua0-x231.google.com (mail-ua0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DCA67F1BD for ; 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Sat, 02 Jun 2018 05:24:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab0:1487:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Jun 2018 05:23:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201806020841.aa01298@berenice.pkmab.se> References: <201806020841.aa01298@berenice.pkmab.se> From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 15:23:44 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: PRs are being closed for bogus reasons :-( To: FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.26 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2018 12:24:26 -0000 On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 9:41 AM, Kristoffer Eriksson wrote: > > On Jun 1, 2018 at 17:27, Kristof Provost wrote: > > On 1 Jun 2018, at 17:09, Warner Losh wrote: > >> Well, not quite true. I've had several people send me pointers to > >> bugs over the years and engage me when I tell them that the patch > >> isn't quite right. > >> That conversation is easier, to my mind, in Phabricator, though. > >> There's no substitute for making good connections and motivating > >> volunteers to want to help you. That gives much better results > >> than filing and forgetting and hoping for the best. As a committer, > >> I find it a low return on investment to go looking at random PRs. > >> I find it a much higher return on investment when I have a history > >> with someone (even a short one). > ... > > For better or worse, the fact is that both patches and bug reports > > fare better if their submitter actively advocates for them. > > > > I don't mean to suggest that it is somehow the fault of the submitter > > if bugs don't get fixed. Instead I want to point at this as something > > people can do to help, even if they don't have commit access, or even > > if they don't know how to read or write code. > > As a submitter of a few bug reports in bugzilla, it would have been > extremely useful to me if there had been some hints somewhere in the > bug report submission process about what I could do to follow up and > promote that report (or fix) to relevant people or forums, in stead > of only finding that out much later when asking on the mailing list > for any response. > > As a first-time submitter, you naturally assume that after submitting > a good detailed bug report, your job is done, and that there is > really nothing more you can do (for those who are not able to fix > the bug themselves). Nothing in bugzilla gives any reason to think > otherwise (as far as I remember). And that is very misleading. > > Maybe(?) there is some information about that somewhere else, but > you really can't read absolutely everything there is in the whole > project before submitting a bug report. > > - Also, for those who are able to also submit patches together with > their bug reports, maybe more could be done to guide them on how to > improve their patches on the way to a more committable state? But > preferrably not in a way that discourages people from submitting > anything at all. > > I would guess that many times, a patch submitted by a bug reporter > may just be meant to serve as a proof or example that the bug is > real and goes away if certain changes are made to the source code, > and not necessarily as a production quality committable fix. Or > anything in between those two. Even then, having a patch should be > much better than having nothing, for the maintainer (or who-ever > tries to fix the bug) to work with, but not necessarily meant to be > committed as-is. > > Maybe it would be helpful if the submitter would be asked to self- > grade what they think their patch is good for, on some kind of scale? > Or indicate what steps they have already done (or not done) themselves > in the process from plain bug report to submittable patch, if a > couple of such steps could be suggested. > > - Another question that occurs to me: Who is it that is supposed to > take an interrest in the bug reports? > > Is just any random volunteer supposed to come by, who doesn't know > anything, and look at them if they feel like it? And then be able > to fix them? That doesn't seem very likely to happen. Maybe > occasionally, but not sustainably. > > I would think that if there was a bug report relating to some code > created or maintained by a specific person or group of persons or > some upstreams project, then the chances would increase significantly > if the report was sent raight away to that group of people. > > For instance, if I would have created some small part of the FreeBSD > software, or ported some software to it, or if some other woftware > that I created would be ported to FreeBSD, then I would like to > receive any bug reports relating to that specific part. (Personally > I would even be interrested if there were some bug reports in the > same parts of code that I have submitted patches for before, which > I have indeed done.) > > Does that not happen in bugzilla? > > Doesn't bugzilla have any information about who maintains or who > created various parts of the project? > > Regards/Kristoffer Eriksson > _______________________________________________ > In FreeBSD Handbook https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/ there is an item 4.8. Dealing with Broken Ports https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/ports-broken.html In that item , the following sentences are written : " When a port does not build or install, try the following: Search to see if there is a fix pending for the port in the Problem Report database. If so, implementing the proposed fix may fix the issue. ... If there is no response to the email, use Bugzilla to submit a bug report using the instructions in Writing FreeBSD Problem Reports. https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/problem-reports/article.html " In any other place , there is no any information about how to write an informative e-mail about problems or how to submit a bug report . Is there a possibility to insert items such as 2.11. Submitting e-mails to FreeBSD mailing lists about problems 2.12. Submitting Problem Reports under 2.Installing FreeBSD My opinion is that , these items will be very helpful for the new comers and suitably written e-mails and bug reports for the developers . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk