From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mon Jan 6 06:56:06 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 534101FAF2B for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 06:56:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x732.google.com (mail-qk1-x732.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::732]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rmW93cHWz4KDd for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 06:56:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x732.google.com with SMTP id d71so30795880qkc.0 for ; Sun, 05 Jan 2020 22:56:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; 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Sun, 05 Jan 2020 22:56:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 23:55:52 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Gcc 4.2.1 to be removed before FreeBSD 13, a firm timeline To: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rmW93cHWz4KDd X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=ka8G3NJb; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::732) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.68 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.3.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.68)[ip: (-9.36), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.13), asn: 15169(-1.86), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 06:56:06 -0000 On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:00 AM Warner Losh wrote: > Greetings, > > As promised for almost the past decade or so, gcc 4.2.1 will be removed > from the tree before FreeBSD 13 is branched. > > I propose the following timeline for its removal: > > 2019-08-31: disconnect gcc 4.2.1 from CI build > > Turn off -Werror on gcc 4.2.1 platforms > > Turn off all gcc 4.2.1 from universe by default (can be turned on) > > 2019-12-31: Turn off gcc 4.2.1 build by default (can be turned on) > > 2020-03-31: svn rm gcc 4.2.1 and friends > > 2020-05-31: svn rm all non-clang platforms not supported by in-tree LLVM > or converted to ext toolchain. > > 2020-07-31: svn rm all ext toolchain platforms not supported by re@ > release scripts > OK. We're about half way through this and it's a good time to reevaluate the schedule. When we started this, all mips, all powerpc, some arm versions and sparc64 were the problem children that still required gcc 4.2.1 for various reasons. Since then, all the platforms except sparc64 have made excellent progress. Nothing non-trivial has been done for sparc64. None of the platforms, except sparc64, requires gcc 4.2.1 any more. There are issues here and there to sort out, but the list is massively reduced from when we started, and people are actively working on (or have credibly signed up to work on) everything in mips, arm, and powerpc land. We've learned many things we didn't know when we started, and some of those issues are still in flight. well done for all the hard work. sparc64 stands out as an outlier. No non-triival work has been done on it, as I've said. I think that unless there's some massive amount of work done on sparc64, in secret, it's time to just remove the port. It's been getting in the way of forward progress for a long time. It's time to admit there's no maintainer that's actively maintaining and remove it from the tree. In addition to not running on relevant sparc hardware, it's broken and a tax on all forward progress on kernel work that has a MD component to it. The many cries of 'I'll do something' over the past several years have resulted in no actual contributions. in-tree gcc 4.2.1 is also no longer required for forward progress on arm, mips, and powerpc. libunwind from gcc is still used by 32-bit arm, however, since the compiler_rt version is broken. So I'd like to propose we alter the above schedule in light of new information we gleaned from executing the first half of it. First, we schedule the removal of sparc64 for 2020-01-31. Nobody has done anything at all on it to date, making it a significant outlier when measured against the other architectures. It's pointless to wait another 4 months to remove it when there's no evidence to suggest there will be any work done on it. It's hindering some kernel work being done that has MD components, which means we should speed up its removal if truly nobody has the time to do the work needed to keep the port viable. Second, all other platforms still have the original deadlines to sort out the last lingering issues with the external toolchain and/or clang. mips is a bit up in the air right now since both the external toolchain and clang have issues (though different issues). powerpc 32-bit is sorting out issues as well. arm 32-bit still needs libunwind from gcc. An end of May deadline is ample time for works in progress to get to the point where everything boots and runs sufficiently well to show the platforms are still viable. Third, we should move up the removal of gcc 4.2.1 to 2020-02-29 as well, with a deadline of 2020-01-31 for someone to publish a github branch that removes gcc for wide-spread testing. An exception to the gcc rule should be made for libunwind until that can be sorted out. Fourth, we keep the deadline for release integration to external toolchain the same at 202-07-31. As far as I know, no work has begun on this, so we may need to reevaluate it again in 4 months after we've completed the transition on all the other tier 2 platforms. In summary: 2020-01-31: start removing sparc64 support from the tree gcc removal test tree published in github 2020-02-29: remove gcc, assuming no unexpected issues with its removal remain 2020-05-31: deadline for all other architectures to sort out the last remaining issues with external toolchain and/or clang and show multiuser booting 2020-07-31: deadline for the supporters of tier 2 architectures to get any changes in to the re@ release build process for those requiring external toolchain support An informal poll on IRC suggests there will be wide-spread support for these alterations to the schedule. This email casts a wider net to test the validity of that hypothesis. Comments? Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mon Jan 6 07:59:59 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C146E1FC20F for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 07:59:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rnwt3kgjz4MN3 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 07:59:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (v-critter.freebsd.dk [192.168.55.3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AACC01AF135; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 07:59:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 0067xnha044814 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 6 Jan 2020 07:59:49 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 0067xmst044813; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 07:59:48 GMT (envelope-from phk) To: Warner Losh cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Gcc 4.2.1 to be removed before FreeBSD 13, a firm timeline In-reply-to: From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <44811.1578297588.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 07:59:48 +0000 Message-ID: <44812.1578297588@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rnwt3kgjz4MN3 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of phk@critter.freebsd.dk designates 130.225.244.222 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=phk@critter.freebsd.dk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.92 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.991,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.977,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.dk]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.04)[ip: (0.07), ipnet: 130.225.0.0/16(0.07), asn: 1835(0.09), country: EU(-0.00)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1835, ipnet:130.225.0.0/16, country:EU]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 07:59:59 -0000 -------- In message , Warner Losh = writes: >First, we schedule the removal of sparc64 for 2020-01-31. Many years ago, we talked about a criteria in these decisions which basically said "Can you buy a new one?" I would like to propose that we consider that again, to not end up in these kind of situations again. -- = Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe = Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence= . From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Jan 7 15:00:48 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 881DB1EA4FC for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 15:00:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-f43.google.com (mail-io1-f43.google.com [209.85.166.43]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47sbCz4W5zz4CnH for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 15:00:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-f43.google.com with SMTP id n21so51325964ioo.10 for ; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 07:00:47 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xho5s6fF+krhf6vC9YW5V9dHXKfx0yGgPVv47Y/iIts=; b=l8IYTcmLxVN79FoZ4pnWEq+CqcS3sLGv1w4HlB0i1vR+iHDyXdxjDPgZBELbQurg5f w8IxhPe772Y3ddO9M+1hMq1faztVyBnacIemX+ngA9k2rNG59jOyb46UYF9evdmMaAg+ +LcRMcl9uO0wEwSA533Tfqr4ZevX8mK5NfQDZJRf2Vr2IB3Fy/xmD5eJ50nCX+V/PmSK rtvzVtLSGB3qULT/V6/2AibFUXkZSCZQe4V9UwBXz7yarSlTNu1V1U0XYjNWXLKX20IL b5mgN86O71kzIKytFAzuKP4J/w9HIzZvpohOlThJLgUDi27WcniiMLmZcCsQfd2fuwZW aJYA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUJi2zLc4x9CNm5n5XFzgshX6JoumhAqQ2Q/wJ3M/HdYZoT/w9c Y3tCvHac/8C6CFbEHFWmRmaih8uiUMtXVhWarUMcYaQP X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwGutNv34I6G9VcznnzIccqDGqzVjAkP0bwB900gOXMsxJUDq0rKN3LRj4KsUiRr1ShdzaCn1V6mJb6bkxuBKs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6638:72c:: with SMTP id j12mr3345264jad.136.1578409246589; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 07:00:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ed Maste Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 10:00:34 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Gcc 4.2.1 to be removed before FreeBSD 13, a firm timeline To: Warner Losh Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47sbCz4W5zz4CnH X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of carpeddiem@gmail.com designates 209.85.166.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=carpeddiem@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.73 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[43.166.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-1.73)[ip: (-3.63), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.10), asn: 15169(-1.85), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[43.166.85.209.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 15:00:48 -0000 On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 01:56, Warner Losh wrote: > > Third, we should move up the removal of gcc 4.2.1 to 2020-02-29 as well, > with a deadline of 2020-01-31 for someone to publish a github branch that > removes gcc for wide-spread testing. An exception to the gcc rule should be > made for libunwind until that can be sorted out. I've been staging my gcc 4.2.1 deorbit work at https://github.com/emaste/freebsd/tree/deorbit-gcc; I'll force-push it on occasion after related changes make it into svn. Removing contrib/gcc and contrib/gcclibs is trivial; there may be some iteration on correctly removing the build infrastructure. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Jan 7 20:19:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9C461F1C1A; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 20:19:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-f67.google.com (mail-io1-f67.google.com [209.85.166.67]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47skJ95C1tz4ZN9; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 20:19:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-f67.google.com with SMTP id n11so679252iom.9; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 12:19:53 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eJw9adBFcZs/BojmCwPMaKg+1WhwxcsjKuMFMd7sl88=; b=ZpjvAaByR1ixZk5mpQivUq0zXyNTrbra/t/P6fuPOnioPMtgnkJIvuF5cUfKxdlQag pEEl3Mw8ZMw2P1AJFjkkHUOGlOJrxGlZkpDYP7gI1pkGAp2SqDPiSepc+ongRHmFTpIg lYyYXz9Jwyt7m/Mdh1sKtZuJiLLkc63/OyA8NlKwmScqO/dDF472jNLn89IB2GdyeqzY eZA+lx2zv+M22PfPhF8ndsIJqEU5vhmCwVl5tkPhM0vRTQVvMePabqFg+hq/RkzDv20e RrgCDEsxAFQjwCGdOIKcbaBmpqUEZECdzznlQkgkFczEO7/4xrc9IWY2FkPmSSBHG7T7 a/6g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUcAGSBYbKj8eCpqZU/f1dOxa8DFSsl9aHAi0me+s7J8Hlz5shc D0OVMBcVHrIWj/Ccq/kzf+fJJ9lnpZ49B0cP34o+puoz X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy2fYl85cz1I1joaelv7BhvyCKfQK8CMx2LgLEw7gJEcutJV1ZX/mVlm2EGKZ+5LUoUeD4lZoDHtBnca6nH/gg= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:39d4:: with SMTP id g203mr674592ioa.100.1578428392644; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 12:19:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ed Maste Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 15:19:40 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Gcc 4.2.1 to be removed before FreeBSD 13, a firm timeline To: Warner Losh , Michal Meloun , sparc64@freebsd.org Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47skJ95C1tz4ZN9 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of carpeddiem@gmail.com designates 209.85.166.67 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=carpeddiem@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.23 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17:c]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[67.166.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-1.23)[ip: (-1.13), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.10), asn: 15169(-1.85), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[67.166.85.209.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 20:19:54 -0000 On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 01:56, Warner Losh wrote: > > Third, we should move up the removal of gcc 4.2.1 to 2020-02-29 as well, > with a deadline of 2020-01-31 for someone to publish a github branch that > removes gcc for wide-spread testing. An exception to the gcc rule should be > made for libunwind until that can be sorted out. In PR 233664 mmel@ reports that the previous issues with libunwind on armv6/armv7 are no longer reproducible, and both will be switched over soon. So there should be no trouble with gcc 4.2.1's removal except for the sparc64 issues, which include at least: PR 233405 libunwind PR 239851 BSD crtbegin PR 243119 binutils 2.33.1,1 assertion failure (but it has a patch!) From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Jan 8 22:09:34 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D832A1FC9B9; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 22:09:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-f178.google.com (mail-il1-f178.google.com [209.85.166.178]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47tNhF5cqXz4DHB; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 22:09:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-f178.google.com with SMTP id x5so4001400ila.6; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 14:09:33 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nr182U6p5PMpL7ExCjs8uKfUvS7e3+lU1kYUAJozqqo=; b=P7AeMz66aNkd2wzoaQGjC4mlAqfyZacT4IHusLZwkOc1T2wV3k+8cNCM/3svf3iGo6 c+8RvQmNAkVUouT31HQ1yG4o13xRIBIR3x1Lq18OBkrgSfRC2UQ1KzZKXxak8JjZ9SKZ XSdGSjow30e92WxwPjcaFDbZUhZkZaI45t1lPAMt21LvwLZFQNmUw+z65lmsQ1CJCZRv PpD5MKQqdbODnk5DElNQ7NxYBypEETps1nGXmC7VsCS+uLyHPFqAZEEcbJT17scJEhDQ S+qTvtrCZRnMicgOlfdL6QVLyxR1eG3gQ3sMfGc++NPrA17HsNY8XnXhh/1zC+sm5yqO PyNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVfwb8cM2JCw5QU8uVWGFYPYzu5L3N8BOWfjI/scsKVJITiuHYF 0Bt134G8A87Lkc2byeZYmR7kC/3ZTLjNKJMMb7XCiw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzvV/O/yl2zgMioEgpVx5BWzEeFZapoLzFZnK6AACF02mdSS3cxtxFTozPXWi0gDBLObq+Ue5w9GN5vKsl4mgQ= X-Received: by 2002:a92:5c52:: with SMTP id q79mr5565850ilb.11.1578521372585; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 14:09:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ed Maste Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 17:09:20 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Gcc 4.2.1 to be removed before FreeBSD 13, a firm timeline To: Warner Losh , Michal Meloun , sparc64@freebsd.org Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47tNhF5cqXz4DHB X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of carpeddiem@gmail.com designates 209.85.166.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=carpeddiem@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.30 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[178.166.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.30)[ip: (-6.51), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.10), asn: 15169(-1.85), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[178.166.85.209.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 22:09:34 -0000 On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 at 15:19, Ed Maste wrote: > > PR 233405 libunwind I've somewhat addressed this today, committing (untested) build fixes from cem@. Someone with an interest in sparc64 and access to hardware will need to test and investigate any failures. > PR 239851 BSD crtbegin This is now the main blocking issue. > PR 243119 binutils 2.33.1,1 assertion failure (but it has a patch!) A fixed binutils package should be available in a week or so. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 15:32:10 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CA9A1F12AE; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:32:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-f195.google.com (mail-il1-f195.google.com [209.85.166.195]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47tqqF67vjz4HSy; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:32:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-f195.google.com with SMTP id v15so6073391iln.0; Thu, 09 Jan 2020 07:32:09 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=+u2kwKu+8WehjzaydXcxDQLU5qk2Lfs5T5GD9GOvcRk=; b=FZAZyTgqRvcPK3yxWyfH/dovWOXaKro/WWM9RKdnh0pbfpCUSI0+UzZefaE+rLc5EP qj8rWjXr/bvlvqAwY0D2XyU1tABbjhBvyRDr7qK+oDfH1URBVYiOiCP3cIXzDzsAhBgD Xds4f8rTJrygbMCAbFfythBtRtMWgtF81j02igdYlPhB9QtzIMCCgALIDChTB14mc15c Qlf3MFXBsY+braFWtbf0He3fzhEJiYY/bRzyOSG0Cr6Xuut1YhYpkzgVaim1B1v4mW5l c1b9vcjZZXys5xOENVsL8a+KV5W7n0EramBIikjNmwRus5GFRmejHqDII9aflQdt3lRU qbAw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVgZ8RMgGC97FFzze554TEjAj5o9jPynAWfnNtKF271X6S8h/B+ pBB9zwklzUlMaC7GQ0AfZvuPyQZ0ouDonvfHb5Z/M0hY X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqybb3e1wpNtaxO/tmj0lE4l9uHiOExeeTBFVkBGO3dogHq63AOfPWW9Gw6tfIv6MbcMj60zpUh+B94ibjsYCXI= X-Received: by 2002:a92:4448:: with SMTP id a8mr9504881ilm.256.1578583927666; Thu, 09 Jan 2020 07:32:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ed Maste Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 10:31:55 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Retiring GNU objdump 2.17.50 To: freebsd-arch , FreeBSD Ports Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47tqqF67vjz4HSy X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of carpeddiem@gmail.com designates 209.85.166.195 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=carpeddiem@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.09 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.09)[ip: (-0.48), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.09), asn: 15169(-1.85), country: US(-0.05)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[195.166.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[195.166.85.209.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 15:32:10 -0000 We currently install and use at most three tools from GNU binutils 2.17.50, depending on target architecture: 1. as - assembler 2. ld - linker 3. objdump - diagnostic / information tool I hope to retire all use of these obsolete binutils before FreeBSD 13. Here I'd like to discuss objdump. It is a diagnostic tool that provides information about object files, binaries and libraries. It's not required as a bootstrap tool (i.e., not needed to build FreeBSD world or kernel). It is required to build a limited number of ports, and is used by some developers. I have a tracking PR for GNU objdump's retirement open in PR 229046. https://bugs.freebsd.org/229046. There are two ways we can proceed with its retirement: 1. Remove it without replacement. Ports that need objdump to build will have to depend on the binutils package/port, and users who wish to use it will have to install it. Related links for this path: Ports exp-run: https://bugs.freebsd.org/212319 Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7338 2. Install llvm-objdump in its place (perhaps via a symlink). llvm-objdump is broadly compatible in both command-line argument parsing and output format, but there are many small differences and it's not a full drop-in replacement. Related links for this path: Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D18307 I am interested in feedback on the preferred approach. Installing llvm's objdump has the advantage that for most use cases everything will "just work", but may also introduce subtle failures. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 15:54:42 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E64B11F1F31 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:54:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pdk@semihalf.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x133.google.com (mail-lf1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47trKF5KKzz4K6j for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:54:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pdk@semihalf.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x133.google.com with SMTP id y19so5543480lfl.9 for ; Thu, 09 Jan 2020 07:54:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=semihalf-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=aNM14UBF6+nKynSqFR1zvohBpM6WOOvbR2CvxkwoWJk=; b=iRU9LT/sWth+YvAJD52A5oVtwpywH1nqRsxwkOFdMfpFvrX9f8wc4c6+FJ0S7GLAfV lUG4vE+PmmSTMacseA1jlGfWW7bMPvweomWQZTw87ocolIFjsOmmUnPeOAd6GGHYHEAD IZshzU1YYZ121po88ZGyGeInR4q1AC31EQ2sBmDJTI2sKda0am3d82hVp6ePqCGFp41r pGDCcm7n1DOKIBjWCrouhWILBM1XHfTLVMO7zR2ID38KiBWKpbVpRkeJ4nrZXugZA9ww bqfvWHZVD2npuTC/NKc+9bRRug1UAtF4zjoKVUTXG6yg66ibTwA0sym5rg5zApLCZtF9 nicw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=aNM14UBF6+nKynSqFR1zvohBpM6WOOvbR2CvxkwoWJk=; b=O0vOmX/0pSMiHP4Geo9i2XA6uKcaEyCxr06MOiSzYxB6C/SjVbsLGI5NdcKtRzxiMh yvLYUbUA1osXfTIhmQCqUoDRI4L1cjJDPMf0rstxxM6bbsHjpd7RxyoBoQaCOUep/b7F cnpwYQJBEnxxGInSTKurXLrnC2mCuUFVKRRg+YchVhJZ3k5wX1PCguYqUfJxjex+uX3C ZOvr2oNTUzwYIQ91JmHUabneowzuEDUQX2yjvYt7d5OXbmo0xEnS/x9jmAlIgltv3+s0 TS1OrcnlB1wzgk6bWKpxweaB/2m1UNTdL7pr11rON7R3mRkdOGJ1Yyon3b4lhQlBwUrC o8fQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXidn4K9zujT14zbnFHlZMd5QkJffIStTYWM/gdXM8by7ar94I8 EArT6+PZRB7GSocy5lahKCSGZHKP25J8lG6CUZJ02aEsyBc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwYw5KibfdUTN3HTrFcpidwseXYp3F75vurzDhtTiCRgdSVfLM/cX3zNpsxbppcChLSBOu7RujSFWWqs4BqOQ0= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5604:: with SMTP id v4mr6182009lfd.152.1578585279673; Thu, 09 Jan 2020 07:54:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Patryk Duda Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 16:53:26 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: CFT: Open Crypto Framework Changes: Round 1 To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47trKF5KKzz4K6j X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=semihalf-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=iRU9LT/s; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of pdk@semihalf.com has no SPF policy when checking 2a00:1450:4864:20::133) smtp.mailfrom=pdk@semihalf.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.10 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FAKE_REPLY(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[semihalf-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[semihalf.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[semihalf-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.3.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.80)[ip: (-9.50), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.61), asn: 15169(-1.85), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 15:54:43 -0000 Hi John, I tested ocf_rework branch on device which has cesa support. Output from "cryptocheck -vz -a all" doesn't differ when kernel was compiled from ocf_rework and from e0f7c88b6c (commit before changes). In both cases I can get the same number of interrupts generated by cesa using "vmstat -i". Nevertheless when I'm running IPSec (Strongswan acts as IKE daemon) software crypto is used instead of cesa. Performance is poor and no cesa interrupts are generated. When running kernel built from commit e0f7c88b6c IPSec works fine. Strongswan is configured to use only AES128 CBC + SHA256 HMAC. This combination is supported by cesa, confirmed by cryptocheck. In my opinion something between IPSec and cesa is broken. Best regards, Patryk PS This message was sent twice because for the first time I was not subscribed for mailing list and my message got stuck in moderation. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 15:56:19 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1C281F2020; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:56:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47trM744Jrz4KHT; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:56:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 009FuBbi074768 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 9 Jan 2020 17:56:14 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua 009FuBbi074768 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 009FuAu2074767; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 17:56:10 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 17:56:10 +0200 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Ed Maste Cc: freebsd-arch , FreeBSD Ports Subject: Re: Retiring GNU objdump 2.17.50 Message-ID: <20200109155610.GA23031@kib.kiev.ua> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.3 (2019-12-06) on tom.home X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47trM744Jrz4KHT X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 15:56:19 -0000 On Thu, Jan 09, 2020 at 10:31:55AM -0500, Ed Maste wrote: > We currently install and use at most three tools from GNU binutils > 2.17.50, depending on target architecture: > > 1. as - assembler > 2. ld - linker > 3. objdump - diagnostic / information tool > > I hope to retire all use of these obsolete binutils before FreeBSD 13. > Here I'd like to discuss objdump. It is a diagnostic tool that > provides information about object files, binaries and libraries. It's > not required as a bootstrap tool (i.e., not needed to build FreeBSD > world or kernel). It is required to build a limited number of ports, > and is used by some developers. > > I have a tracking PR for GNU objdump's retirement open in PR 229046. > https://bugs.freebsd.org/229046. > > There are two ways we can proceed with its retirement: > > 1. Remove it without replacement. Ports that need objdump to build > will have to depend on the binutils package/port, and users who wish > to use it will have to install it. > > Related links for this path: > Ports exp-run: https://bugs.freebsd.org/212319 > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7338 > > 2. Install llvm-objdump in its place (perhaps via a symlink). > llvm-objdump is broadly compatible in both command-line argument > parsing and output format, but there are many small differences and > it's not a full drop-in replacement. > > Related links for this path: > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D18307 > > I am interested in feedback on the preferred approach. Installing > llvm's objdump has the advantage that for most use cases everything > will "just work", but may also introduce subtle failures. IMO no. 1 is preferrable because we do not need to track differences, nor we need to explain them. Having to install binutils port is not a high cost, and if somebody needs details about binary at the level provided by objdump, including disassembler, she would need binutils port anyway. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 16:03:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7070D1F240E for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 16:03:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x841.google.com (mail-qt1-x841.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::841]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47trWx4flmz4Kpg for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 16:03:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x841.google.com with SMTP id t3so6235353qtr.11 for ; Thu, 09 Jan 2020 08:03:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/mf4UAKFwdF/bA0lA4fr4EfqBoFe1zXyk9DnL9EbBQM=; b=aCmfegRx3+rC9hIXNIJWv94+yq9i1p5j58eIwGhu+QvFYuTeCjgPLLWVgJbeGjaUsS So24wlaqh2zhpcUI00G5vap07TgegMLGC7nRpTTaSzS0oRty4Br0A5SXh18wy9TBXt9G BuMNLecsROpMW+Z81wkf6m5aEPrn+OhE8sj9JrzR7pHBsEO7giaSY+Ol3f4HaYscyD70 n85CJMMj070Jdfr0RM+0sL6+iZLs3kcLG3xBYOxlUSsgTb6HbIw/nU1M1RSfUIzEs6aA MwBhA68YKYuEaeB+pFgzE2SiRJgnMi4fRB1qnzTiCdOstUV3qV2y+tw6m82wuRWDFArV 3zCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/mf4UAKFwdF/bA0lA4fr4EfqBoFe1zXyk9DnL9EbBQM=; b=P30D1AEkmekaXUq8PxD0y86vGyZMQbz1T+8UdnlRYxVu1CatiUKSbTzkhY8IUx6V0x p7mUtMYb+bM3dGPGgTTr6FnyJBET7I4hUFhZFZZvEkytz4lS+QjnoJXkLbxBwThSMNyn ODyf3emyzpoGkkKVm/7ZJe90NyjGbK1T1iAa4K55yoh+0rYtSXv8GqkbO0iqMPU9mscn GGg4/KKsHUGDJyYhjcsWuf/0MBvkNjW0AnvvTK2dA28wB8iw6CzgCLYAcVzqQ3NuvBg4 Ksg5hPnN4VjUK/cP9a+GpuEXoi9MSLQH+aiXqZQvYO7w9iGkaDpAaXSH2MNLRqFLt3DR pw7Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVyU3kwXRps8bEKo6soVMWkMsExkrtaBVX58tJEFuCHKZEVX8N6 h59kHX2UFvqcvd0C/aC9i1icXrwT1Q57Cwcy4pjQJgVH X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzbR1ossHgdZKfok5hjR2kePFjN6Uuu1ca/ZiBXF9u9fmwDUVKAuSRtJbCQtHMr1D1QJPvGEY7ibpOYF3sWX1I= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:21ec:: with SMTP id 41mr8725025qtz.242.1578585836609; Thu, 09 Jan 2020 08:03:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 09:03:45 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Retiring GNU objdump 2.17.50 To: Ed Maste Cc: freebsd-arch , FreeBSD Ports X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47trWx4flmz4Kpg X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=aCmfegRx; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::841) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.34 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.4.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-0.34)[ip: (2.32), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.12), asn: 15169(-1.85), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 16:03:58 -0000 On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 8:32 AM Ed Maste wrote: > We currently install and use at most three tools from GNU binutils > 2.17.50, depending on target architecture: > > 1. as - assembler > 2. ld - linker > 3. objdump - diagnostic / information tool > > I hope to retire all use of these obsolete binutils before FreeBSD 13. > Here I'd like to discuss objdump. It is a diagnostic tool that > provides information about object files, binaries and libraries. It's > not required as a bootstrap tool (i.e., not needed to build FreeBSD > world or kernel). It is required to build a limited number of ports, > and is used by some developers. > > I have a tracking PR for GNU objdump's retirement open in PR 229046. > https://bugs.freebsd.org/229046. > > There are two ways we can proceed with its retirement: > > 1. Remove it without replacement. Ports that need objdump to build > will have to depend on the binutils package/port, and users who wish > to use it will have to install it. > > Related links for this path: > Ports exp-run: https://bugs.freebsd.org/212319 > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7338 > > 2. Install llvm-objdump in its place (perhaps via a symlink). > llvm-objdump is broadly compatible in both command-line argument > parsing and output format, but there are many small differences and > it's not a full drop-in replacement. > > Related links for this path: > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D18307 > > I am interested in feedback on the preferred approach. Installing > llvm's objdump has the advantage that for most use cases everything > will "just work", but may also introduce subtle failures. > I'm a bit torn on this one. I like the first approach because it gives me exactly what I'm used to, and the burden to install binutils isn't that high. Though, I don't really need the rest of it and stray binaries like as and ld may have some weird unintended consequences. I like the second one because my muscle memory in my fingers means I won't have to adapt and I won't have to install binutils for my muscle memory to work. The phrase 'broadly compatible' always fills me with the terror of broken scripts. So I have about a 70/30 split between #1 and #2. #1 is likely better, but not no-brainer clearly better. But #2 has issues so unless there's an as-yet unarticulated #3, I think #1 would be better. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 16:15:19 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4CF91F291C for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 16:15:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound3d.ore.mailhop.org (outbound3d.ore.mailhop.org [54.186.57.195]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47trn3435lz4Lgj for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 16:15:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1578586517; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=qFZGFVFwz1HbKdHnX/lG7r1TRdFEuCB5ib62VipWzlaP/QtuXoyWe/McxCMjJxvdEr8jzK2ojxHG8 IYDeLt3t6k/+Lcxu5MC5cbXVaKB1ceOSuDjRuvW8Ay8ZlU1lFbMFpqZpsIyjYo2S3L0Nds7+Wm5hK2 EzfFjm5bRfbI2SOWzicyO870DwlhO4GgFqufdc/p6qVVxDPuadwenRcKHBzgDcmWzoPS2yPwwi4YB0 1O419kbpj/dMrRYX0lw67CBCuLTg90RmbKmzjkaaEiytpXUlrAgAFuUcJgGpdKxo9ce5UscbOCtmQm JuOcwPI0BQN8lOraYjKjyPcUQjCmqsg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:dkim-signature:from; bh=s6UvBaOJzG3Tq13tN1M+s0gLCXty+6I2wq7+JOuuh1Y=; b=h7jgyupoaSg6gFIwAelGAQEknLYehTm+aDBOYCVpmAGnCpthqwbVmDc44VgXIgjD4kAj9vTryhbWl Hf4hreNxno2vtARXCMayzeQhKKakQ8OwN/G5mjGbUk/XSFxFpkkXGEuFBKLICBTKq7W8EDnTgrom/K gWHQNGUFW4SQNtLZxlHGlIl+t/f3L6Cmimb02/l1wP14bh95fWjVBqJAlWUza/hcD2w8ChheqqNhWa 2p05m8ybD0oP/ixliA8xcU8eabEde/vgCFMso+0P+TsUXUD/lYp6P5vkpXyv91Pf8yT3X1Zk2PQ06i oLqVvTd/tEsIUUW9RwrTFl/G20wF82w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound3.ore.mailhop.org; spf=softfail smtp.mailfrom=freebsd.org smtp.remote-ip=67.177.211.60; dmarc=none header.from=freebsd.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=dkim-high; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:from; bh=s6UvBaOJzG3Tq13tN1M+s0gLCXty+6I2wq7+JOuuh1Y=; b=rZ1xIPnBKPPC7Ao1vOeUhgdKvNmyojzFzLgfeDqURNF1pvDR2PZQe1BuN8AI5dzbV31PRpD6zWo5k jDhmc7J/JUsIywTAdC5jzosOfZUuaVb/9QrtDKxrXGnqxIUJqHljrLLXWv9Wjc+w2rEZ6s3jT+0P2A cuvOpi3och0z7JY5CUZEYIAZ3e9aCpJhah4hnjtV/wooTLKhO27pHPxivSfqRiamlK6yS5kNUQRPQI lYZfuwkjmTMFbjKJtAX1qJB2CzT8ekTrgxHyua9bfj/vz/u/5sKEyQceLPrMOGLvJ+8mqoEvS0SDkV 0YcaKE2fJvXixburtIf2rwxXb0ciXeg== X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: 38769e04-32fb-11ea-b80d-052b4a66b6b2 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [67.177.211.60]) by outbound3.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 38769e04-32fb-11ea-b80d-052b4a66b6b2; Thu, 09 Jan 2020 16:15:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 009GFFdK040097; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 09:15:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <54d1f23bd455269cf33a296e2f95809f21f3341c.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Retiring GNU objdump 2.17.50 From: Ian Lepore To: Konstantin Belousov , Ed Maste Cc: FreeBSD Ports , freebsd-arch Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 09:15:15 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20200109155610.GA23031@kib.kiev.ua> References: <20200109155610.GA23031@kib.kiev.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ASCII" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 FreeBSD GNOME Team Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47trn3435lz4Lgj X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.97 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.975,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.994,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:54.186.0.0/15, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 16:15:19 -0000 On Thu, 2020-01-09 at 17:56 +0200, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Thu, Jan 09, 2020 at 10:31:55AM -0500, Ed Maste wrote: > > We currently install and use at most three tools from GNU binutils > > 2.17.50, depending on target architecture: > > > > 1. as - assembler > > 2. ld - linker > > 3. objdump - diagnostic / information tool > > > > I hope to retire all use of these obsolete binutils before FreeBSD 13. > > Here I'd like to discuss objdump. It is a diagnostic tool that > > provides information about object files, binaries and libraries. It's > > not required as a bootstrap tool (i.e., not needed to build FreeBSD > > world or kernel). It is required to build a limited number of ports, > > and is used by some developers. > > > > I have a tracking PR for GNU objdump's retirement open in PR 229046. > > https://bugs.freebsd.org/229046. > > > > There are two ways we can proceed with its retirement: > > > > 1. Remove it without replacement. Ports that need objdump to build > > will have to depend on the binutils package/port, and users who wish > > to use it will have to install it. > > > > Related links for this path: > > Ports exp-run: https://bugs.freebsd.org/212319 > > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7338 > > > > 2. Install llvm-objdump in its place (perhaps via a symlink). > > llvm-objdump is broadly compatible in both command-line argument > > parsing and output format, but there are many small differences and > > it's not a full drop-in replacement. > > > > Related links for this path: > > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D18307 > > > > I am interested in feedback on the preferred approach. Installing > > llvm's objdump has the advantage that for most use cases everything > > will "just work", but may also introduce subtle failures. > > IMO no. 1 is preferrable because we do not need to track differences, nor > we need to explain them. Having to install binutils port is not a high cost, > and if somebody needs details about binary at the level provided by objdump, > including disassembler, she would need binutils port anyway. I completely disagree with this. I recently tested llvm-objdump and found it to be completely compatible with all the ways I normally use objdump, and objdump is a tool I use multiple times every month. I have no idea what you mean about needing to install binutils port "if somebody needs details...". Objdump is the one and only tool I need for examining object files and executables. I have no idea what other tools you might even be talking about that are part of a binutils port. I do agree with the idea that objdump is more useful to a developer than to the average user or sysadmin. I wouldn't object to something like a WITH_LLVM_OBJDUMP knob that defaulted to off. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 17:00:38 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DF921F387C for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 17:00:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Received: from mail-qv1-xf30.google.com (mail-qv1-xf30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f30]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47tsnJ42Hjz4NxB for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 17:00:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Received: by mail-qv1-xf30.google.com with SMTP id z3so3271833qvn.0 for ; Thu, 09 Jan 2020 09:00:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Thu, 09 Jan 2020 09:00:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mutt-hbsd ([63.88.83.120]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 21sm3267090qky.41.2020.01.09.09.00.29 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 09 Jan 2020 09:00:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 12:00:30 -0500 From: Shawn Webb To: Ed Maste Cc: freebsd-arch , FreeBSD Ports Subject: Re: Retiring GNU objdump 2.17.50 Message-ID: <20200109170030.n6wq2zzxmnljbxg3@mutt-hbsd> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD mutt-hbsd 13.0-CURRENT-HBSD FreeBSD 13.0-CURRENT-HBSD X-PGP-Key: http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0xFF2E67A277F8E1FA References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="au5cgdu6f6ngm4ru" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47tsnJ42Hjz4NxB X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=hardenedbsd.org header.s=google header.b=hXkQn2wT; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f30 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.90 / 15.00]; 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charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jan 09, 2020 at 10:31:55AM -0500, Ed Maste wrote: > We currently install and use at most three tools from GNU binutils > 2.17.50, depending on target architecture: >=20 > 1. as - assembler > 2. ld - linker > 3. objdump - diagnostic / information tool >=20 > I hope to retire all use of these obsolete binutils before FreeBSD 13. > Here I'd like to discuss objdump. It is a diagnostic tool that > provides information about object files, binaries and libraries. It's > not required as a bootstrap tool (i.e., not needed to build FreeBSD > world or kernel). It is required to build a limited number of ports, > and is used by some developers. >=20 > I have a tracking PR for GNU objdump's retirement open in PR 229046. > https://bugs.freebsd.org/229046. >=20 > There are two ways we can proceed with its retirement: >=20 > 1. Remove it without replacement. Ports that need objdump to build > will have to depend on the binutils package/port, and users who wish > to use it will have to install it. >=20 > Related links for this path: > Ports exp-run: https://bugs.freebsd.org/212319 > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7338 >=20 > 2. Install llvm-objdump in its place (perhaps via a symlink). > llvm-objdump is broadly compatible in both command-line argument > parsing and output format, but there are many small differences and > it's not a full drop-in replacement. >=20 > Related links for this path: > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D18307 Hey Ed, In preparation for Cross-DSO CFI, HardenedBSD made the switch to llvm-objdump a long while ago. Therea are, indeed, subtle breakages in ports. Not all options are supported. I added a LLVM_OBJDUMP_UNSAFE flag, and some ports still have trouble with it. Unfortunately, my spare time at this very moment is not large enough to allow me to document HardenedBSD's initial findings with regards to the switch. I wll, however, add that to my todo list. Thanks, --=20 Shawn Webb Cofounder / Security Engineer HardenedBSD XMPP+OTR: lattera@is.a.hacker.sx GPG Key ID: 0xFF2E67A277F8E1FA GPG Key Fingerprint: D206 BB45 15E0 9C49 0CF9 3633 C85B 0AF8 AB23 0FB2 https://git-01.md.hardenedbsd.org/HardenedBSD/pubkeys/src/branch/master/Sha= wn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc --au5cgdu6f6ngm4ru Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEA6TL67gupaZ9nzhT/y5nonf44foFAl4XXCkACgkQ/y5nonf4 4frD+Q//YyTB6dnl31XLQU11AnNslQdjkk8Zry+prkiOhVEDUAS5ToKJJEuAbSoF pt98zLhIC82cZXsirEhrl6y9H9KY40fGGi/Su7f1nnxNsdzgOnag+19j5bnz0LBI Kn5HXtKQTqfWVkbI/pkgoAIi4qBCRmJjOHF0ysNKcgYFd7GzKflPSTt6qAELgRT4 mZPG2BFgwWzPdyFUlBgkDfLcM9cZqJMXndcIJ7xrv82haYDRdWXPI++Pbxwm8E9v pCQJvHU+tgEVnRpwOm3Fw/IfBz63P9+z/bVDMdsFzyrcLcCQfyEyZyG56BGX3VIk RF6pMASCFtueJ0JYIk3F7Mr8xHrlxnpTViyRKL1sTP0IBDgfN1EHiviGE8PZA3iB 9Dtogipx/1sA5sz5gBxl9PzWXfM2dyQmCBUIxwq/eMjhImctTxlV0oUsjzpk552v V218icNEgwj8oPJTaH1Q7PyS4sRKHqGxhSCKSx4pMj0uGT/BR9DPFFKCD04AKYBU DUB4K2FHCkxWT61w5+CQ1GGbE4iZlw2FF2FGXwPUqYZ+SB9POjG+jL588dNua39t OMeywFdWHibWvWUFEAfOQORfKM2SE1E7c2hfFf9gCYXI4gg+sG77dIUOyJ4ZXh2L apeBq40rncF6kT0PbTUGW44sztlZt0ekmLYcuMe6MvXHWpOT9/4= =j4FK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --au5cgdu6f6ngm4ru-- From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 20:59:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80EB81F8D71; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 20:59:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from arichardson.kde@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yb1-f193.google.com (mail-yb1-f193.google.com [209.85.219.193]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47tz4P2rk9z3CPC; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 20:59:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from arichardson.kde@gmail.com) Received: by mail-yb1-f193.google.com with SMTP id k15so2565062ybd.10; Thu, 09 Jan 2020 12:59:01 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=w73ncL/Op0mrtzBzyRvrtLVJ9OXSah0e6cVN/S05vpQ=; b=sjo7C5A7zGENn5KUN0XOyRKiILzhmWQ8orcj6+GK33Ry1dknADLB3FmL/808U5EXOt qlcdluWjivyqMkF0icTqStRxopGAjkFv6O3NcWr+EjAfKNVkctMaN4La8G4hoWhPlSO3 S4YNtWSE3tPeCTCblpg//Uepd1Wgmhtf9LcqLbM2xc5Ctkmh8s+4SGgt8lDaAJHxbdpa 9VJtVtkSxkKKgJMafuHlnZjtOd84XIjicU0gU+jcilOsrFHrFEVG9ugXluaV1KciwVEf eGl+UAbuucLjLNpOavXvWrg6knLtFppfseDCjWMwM2kYO/NWzhRVuqtiopQn3L2rC9Yi 8Haw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXtFI8gccg4EzE5JxmoZFSgrXEwORMEzfzdtD/piLIlGgwn0lQU modaxOyYX2a+Rzod1vsSuFFcYQoYA5I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx42c90v2ize7XJQhlH+2rHY7IwwnxlpImlQi4STWbILM7v+is+zghvufuJi7Rhq7krIfCFrQ== X-Received: by 2002:a25:5a06:: with SMTP id o6mr2483373ybb.384.1578603539575; Thu, 09 Jan 2020 12:58:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yb1-f170.google.com (mail-yb1-f170.google.com. [209.85.219.170]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q130sm3595107ywg.52.2020.01.09.12.58.59 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 09 Jan 2020 12:58:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb1-f170.google.com with SMTP id n66so3548040ybg.0; Thu, 09 Jan 2020 12:58:59 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a25:d889:: with SMTP id p131mr2715807ybg.306.1578603539134; Thu, 09 Jan 2020 12:58:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Alexander Richardson Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 20:58:48 +0000 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Retiring GNU objdump 2.17.50 To: Ed Maste Cc: freebsd-arch , FreeBSD Ports Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47tz4P2rk9z3CPC X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 20:59:01 -0000 On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 at 15:32, Ed Maste wrote: > > We currently install and use at most three tools from GNU binutils > 2.17.50, depending on target architecture: > > 1. as - assembler > 2. ld - linker > 3. objdump - diagnostic / information tool > > I hope to retire all use of these obsolete binutils before FreeBSD 13. > Here I'd like to discuss objdump. It is a diagnostic tool that > provides information about object files, binaries and libraries. It's > not required as a bootstrap tool (i.e., not needed to build FreeBSD > world or kernel). It is required to build a limited number of ports, > and is used by some developers. > > I have a tracking PR for GNU objdump's retirement open in PR 229046. > https://bugs.freebsd.org/229046. > > There are two ways we can proceed with its retirement: > > 1. Remove it without replacement. Ports that need objdump to build > will have to depend on the binutils package/port, and users who wish > to use it will have to install it. > > Related links for this path: > Ports exp-run: https://bugs.freebsd.org/212319 > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7338 > > 2. Install llvm-objdump in its place (perhaps via a symlink). > llvm-objdump is broadly compatible in both command-line argument > parsing and output format, but there are many small differences and > it's not a full drop-in replacement. > > Related links for this path: > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D18307 > > I am interested in feedback on the preferred approach. Installing > llvm's objdump has the advantage that for most use cases everything > will "just work", but may also introduce subtle failures. Hi Ed, While there is a risk of subtle breakage, I would be in favour of installing llvm-objdump as /usr/bin/objdump. LLVM developers are actively trying to ensure that they can be used as a drop in replacement in most cases. If I remember the discussion at EuroLLVM last year correctly, the goal is to have compatible output for anything used e.g. in configure scripts and only diverge if there is a good reason for it. I also find that bugs reported against binutils in LLVM bugzilla are generally addressed quickly, especially if it's a simple GNU compatibility issue. Additionally, llvm-objdump's disassembler is a lot faster than GNU objdump (at least twice as fast, but my LLVM build is with assertions enabled, so probably even more). However, I would wait until we have imported LLVM 10 before making that change. There have been quite a few commits to LLVM binutils replacements in the past few months that improve compatibility with the GNU versions (not only objdump but also readelf,addr2line,ar,ranlib etc). I'm not sure the LLVM 9 versions are ready yet, but for CheriBSD we use llvm binutils for everything (our fork is roughly up to date with llvm 10). Unrelated to this but we could also install llvm-readobj installed as /usr/bin/readelf to avoid depending on installing the GNU binutils port for projects using readelf? Additionally, I would also very much like to see llvm-ar as /usr/bin/ar and /usr/bin/ranlib so we can start using LTO with clang. Alex > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 21:31:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00D081FA191; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 21:31:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fuz@fuz.su) Received: from fuz.su (fuz.su [IPv6:2001:41d0:8:e508::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "amnesiac", Issuer "amnesiac" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47tznb63P7z3Fyx; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 21:31:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fuz@fuz.su) Received: from fuz.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fuz.su (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 009LV8ep087139 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 9 Jan 2020 22:31:08 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from fuz@fuz.su) Received: (from fuz@localhost) by fuz.su (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 009LV8Ps087138; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 22:31:08 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from fuz) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 22:31:08 +0100 From: Robert Clausecker To: freebsd-arch , FreeBSD Ports Subject: Re: Retiring GNU objdump 2.17.50 Message-ID: <20200109213108.GA86373@fuz.su> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.2 (2019-09-21) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47tznb63P7z3Fyx X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of fuz@fuz.su has no SPF policy when checking 2001:41d0:8:e508::1) smtp.mailfrom=fuz@fuz.su X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.26 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[fuz.su]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.96)[0.964,0]; IP_SCORE(1.40)[ipnet: 2001:41d0::/32(4.93), asn: 16276(2.06), country: FR(0.00)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16276, ipnet:2001:41d0::/32, country:FR]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 21:31:17 -0000 As a FreeBSD user, I cannot understate the importance of having a disassembler and ELF dumper in the base install. The binutils are invaluable as debugging and development tools. Not having them available by default would make the base distribution a lot less of a well-rounded UNIX system for general use than it currently is. If you are going to throw out the GNU binutils, shipping the LLVM variant would be of great use to all people who have to debug random FreeBSD installations where the presence of ports cannot be guaranteed. Yours, Robert Clausecker On Thu, Jan 09, 2020 at 10:31:55AM -0500, Ed Maste wrote: > We currently install and use at most three tools from GNU binutils > 2.17.50, depending on target architecture: > > 1. as - assembler > 2. ld - linker > 3. objdump - diagnostic / information tool > > I hope to retire all use of these obsolete binutils before FreeBSD 13. > Here I'd like to discuss objdump. It is a diagnostic tool that > provides information about object files, binaries and libraries. It's > not required as a bootstrap tool (i.e., not needed to build FreeBSD > world or kernel). It is required to build a limited number of ports, > and is used by some developers. > > I have a tracking PR for GNU objdump's retirement open in PR 229046. > https://bugs.freebsd.org/229046. > > There are two ways we can proceed with its retirement: > > 1. Remove it without replacement. Ports that need objdump to build > will have to depend on the binutils package/port, and users who wish > to use it will have to install it. > > Related links for this path: > Ports exp-run: https://bugs.freebsd.org/212319 > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7338 > > 2. Install llvm-objdump in its place (perhaps via a symlink). > llvm-objdump is broadly compatible in both command-line argument > parsing and output format, but there are many small differences and > it's not a full drop-in replacement. > > Related links for this path: > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D18307 > > I am interested in feedback on the preferred approach. Installing > llvm's objdump has the advantage that for most use cases everything > will "just work", but may also introduce subtle failures. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- () ascii ribbon campaign - for an 8-bit clean world /\ - against html email - against proprietary attachments From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 21:37:16 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC36B1FA2E6; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 21:37:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47tzwX2trlz3GQN; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 21:37:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id 009LbEKW097420; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 13:37:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id 009LbEoM097419; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 13:37:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <202001092137.009LbEoM097419@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: Retiring GNU objdump 2.17.50 In-Reply-To: <54d1f23bd455269cf33a296e2f95809f21f3341c.camel@freebsd.org> To: Ian Lepore Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 13:37:14 -0800 (PST) CC: Konstantin Belousov , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Ports , freebsd-arch X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47tzwX2trlz3GQN X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 21:37:16 -0000 > On Thu, 2020-01-09 at 17:56 +0200, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 09, 2020 at 10:31:55AM -0500, Ed Maste wrote: > > > We currently install and use at most three tools from GNU binutils > > > 2.17.50, depending on target architecture: > > > > > > 1. as - assembler > > > 2. ld - linker > > > 3. objdump - diagnostic / information tool > > > > > > I hope to retire all use of these obsolete binutils before FreeBSD 13. > > > Here I'd like to discuss objdump. It is a diagnostic tool that > > > provides information about object files, binaries and libraries. It's > > > not required as a bootstrap tool (i.e., not needed to build FreeBSD > > > world or kernel). It is required to build a limited number of ports, > > > and is used by some developers. > > > > > > I have a tracking PR for GNU objdump's retirement open in PR 229046. > > > https://bugs.freebsd.org/229046. > > > > > > There are two ways we can proceed with its retirement: > > > > > > 1. Remove it without replacement. Ports that need objdump to build > > > will have to depend on the binutils package/port, and users who wish > > > to use it will have to install it. > > > > > > Related links for this path: > > > Ports exp-run: https://bugs.freebsd.org/212319 > > > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7338 > > > > > > 2. Install llvm-objdump in its place (perhaps via a symlink). > > > llvm-objdump is broadly compatible in both command-line argument > > > parsing and output format, but there are many small differences and > > > it's not a full drop-in replacement. > > > > > > Related links for this path: > > > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D18307 > > > > > > I am interested in feedback on the preferred approach. Installing > > > llvm's objdump has the advantage that for most use cases everything > > > will "just work", but may also introduce subtle failures. > > > > IMO no. 1 is preferrable because we do not need to track differences, nor > > we need to explain them. Having to install binutils port is not a high cost, > > and if somebody needs details about binary at the level provided by objdump, > > including disassembler, she would need binutils port anyway. "Having to install binutils" defeats the purpose of a GNU free BSD system, if we just kicked all the stuff out to ports as the GNU free solution we could of been done 20 years ago. One of the projects long standing claims is "A complete developement system", we are slowly eroding that by using the "kick it out to ports" solution. > > I completely disagree with this. I recently tested llvm-objdump and > found it to be completely compatible with all the ways I normally use > objdump, and objdump is a tool I use multiple times every month. Thanks for that data point Ian. > I have no idea what you mean about needing to install binutils port "if > somebody needs details...". Objdump is the one and only tool I need > for examining object files and executables. I have no idea what other > tools you might even be talking about that are part of a binutils port. > > I do agree with the idea that objdump is more useful to a developer > than to the average user or sysadmin. I wouldn't object to something > like a WITH_LLVM_OBJDUMP knob that defaulted to off. Isnt the LLVM OBJDUMP source code in the tree already? If so just switch to it, and make the knob "WITHOUT_LLVM_OBJDUMP". And as mentioned someplace out the LLVM folks are working on some of the incompatiblities and should have better code in LVM 10. My favor is for #2, switch to llvm_objdump, llvm is our compiler of choice, so it's matching tool set be also. > -- Ian -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 20:18:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D4BD1F2774; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 20:18:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from garga.bsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x744.google.com (mail-qk1-x744.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::744]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vZ795BNSz45Zv; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 20:18:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from garga.bsd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x744.google.com with SMTP id x129so3090809qke.8; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:18:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=veKq8M2cDQCxJYta/GnxKbogfnkvjo3BLKie7FIK1RI=; b=jG3p+QUcGNA4ggi6vsGnU6kV3nLXJe39RKp7mtNAnno3N4UuwRWZgWa4QEWpCXGj6M J/7cGYO3UjW0qy2XJjDAAQs9daOq8Ij7qgztOQIu+ndd3+pD2axVh6iciKYi0Fzv9uCL 1oeoI6JKYg+vlkRO3QjGVSCObzh5zr/8QVI3NV+uTlkujfgSqX/fL7SQNermlnwsmytF 2ES7is8TA6aVZI7JHMwGseexJUYrA2xvl59m6oNynuCFtNuq2ESUaYZyztouO/eyJ1Kt ATgrrdMvhL2iqIndfzYXjuSQQx32Z9MqBUINUJZ5aCAgyC1l91fkLPaaGMFn8ghcHkl+ ac9g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=veKq8M2cDQCxJYta/GnxKbogfnkvjo3BLKie7FIK1RI=; b=tKjnR3NPYpAAJeVdzs5qPKFmzxjuf40Ym0X//Iz/VBWOuMZbj73ZgSvO4SUgi4r+Wy OkFYhhuBuS9m8m/S0yl/gDsWhwNK4rsyKh9Pa+uBLymuaQuAQoc4jTEYqu15dtYc+tQZ 2c+JbWKgTqP666DVNWdLF+eblpaWmVLvqbkLUNhC7cIitGYDy9sbNz2Es6pemd9BBC9k +mY/CeWgyrsZCB439VbHmVlouB5ANvqneh8UTuqIBlnb+jxHo2SJGZyU0M+qDVofVI1J hF8kVEI8eOball/a7mpC1XS5EMitXB4njtwEDA3rwcV7t8bO0b6I0oHJUVRMeiH59VWB gtew== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVQhlBlvtTtTe5+Rkw4lZ1Ucd+rENOogHTi1ajmp/+TEoDspvYf 7NCeBNZ3yKr4ebqlCUqtHznKZPyo X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxNcPhDOLy39JC6tuxTIwoXxIn3J4orTYXE1mrU/Ii2OmxmcHZTPXiLVLSyHZweg/U6ideU0Q== X-Received: by 2002:a37:a70c:: with SMTP id q12mr368357qke.484.1578687508425; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:18:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mbp.home (201-77-127-155.static.desktop.com.br. [201.77.127.155]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u57sm1522267qth.68.2020.01.10.12.18.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:18:27 -0800 (PST) Sender: Renato Botelho Subject: Re: Retiring GNU objdump 2.17.50 To: Konstantin Belousov , Ed Maste Cc: FreeBSD Ports , freebsd-arch References: <20200109155610.GA23031@kib.kiev.ua> From: Renato Botelho Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:18:25 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:72.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/72.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200109155610.GA23031@kib.kiev.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vZ795BNSz45Zv X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=jG3p+QUc; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of gargabsd@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::744 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gargabsd@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.58 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[garga@FreeBSD.org,gargabsd@gmail.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.4.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.38)[ip: (2.11), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.11), asn: 15169(-1.84), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[garga@FreeBSD.org,gargabsd@gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 20:18:30 -0000 On 09/01/20 12:56, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Thu, Jan 09, 2020 at 10:31:55AM -0500, Ed Maste wrote: >> We currently install and use at most three tools from GNU binutils >> 2.17.50, depending on target architecture: >> >> 1. as - assembler >> 2. ld - linker >> 3. objdump - diagnostic / information tool >> >> I hope to retire all use of these obsolete binutils before FreeBSD 13. >> Here I'd like to discuss objdump. It is a diagnostic tool that >> provides information about object files, binaries and libraries. It's >> not required as a bootstrap tool (i.e., not needed to build FreeBSD >> world or kernel). It is required to build a limited number of ports, >> and is used by some developers. >> >> I have a tracking PR for GNU objdump's retirement open in PR 229046. >> https://bugs.freebsd.org/229046. >> >> There are two ways we can proceed with its retirement: >> >> 1. Remove it without replacement. Ports that need objdump to build >> will have to depend on the binutils package/port, and users who wish >> to use it will have to install it. >> >> Related links for this path: >> Ports exp-run: https://bugs.freebsd.org/212319 >> Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7338 >> >> 2. Install llvm-objdump in its place (perhaps via a symlink). >> llvm-objdump is broadly compatible in both command-line argument >> parsing and output format, but there are many small differences and >> it's not a full drop-in replacement. >> >> Related links for this path: >> Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D18307 >> >> I am interested in feedback on the preferred approach. Installing >> llvm's objdump has the advantage that for most use cases everything >> will "just work", but may also introduce subtle failures. > > IMO no. 1 is preferrable because we do not need to track differences, nor > we need to explain them. Having to install binutils port is not a high cost, > and if somebody needs details about binary at the level provided by objdump, > including disassembler, she would need binutils port anyway. +1 -- Renato Botelho From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 20:27:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E02BA1F2D8A; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 20:27:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-f182.google.com (mail-il1-f182.google.com [209.85.166.182]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vZK05Psrz46S5; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 20:27:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-f182.google.com with SMTP id s15so2821158iln.1; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:27:00 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WZamMQcPL+wn9Qcicj3UH0jnzgNGjSPMbzbvADcsd6Y=; b=WXHcXT9IOc6jgztUCVGepdCaWLk02p1lHqZ/rlSBN9Hqpd7Tr8EghfrMBDuaZ6j+u9 5y237MpifMTs/9q9LPeaPa8dyTuvzx1PKwmqFil2MrWKuy0y3wRVc8YN/9gffjmVVxJE cqiBV0F0Sjmwhc56NLfjolA80x813jTCNyq6UeTbR8MdQnsUMoPN/ihjlthOr0utVNyx 1d4TBvSeadhQYYcIdIg+vUcYYxJifF3U2E1H4wo+/e+K1JFCfFmlO5G4rkCiAHknzLNy Plzj6lvG0YVNYzduPYQmzqiPIt3uTgk7k0OAUuDJKoe7QSrCdnqRCXkTfnS5p9s9oc9n 8KrA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXhYnSbbxR6Dt39QZ+t8/+7ErqajPNsfBSJYIcLP7677jKaT1MI pn9ZOPgqX8ENBsmYr1qf+D6KwbwR+HAR2ccY+38= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxZ0+CH2WmqHnGElx0gXU9DfbQrr85T9aICXdWGu1qqK2ZYkQ53od/RCHv3lAzNsLmRzQuZQgXdULSbpf8YmXw= X-Received: by 2002:a92:d982:: with SMTP id r2mr4065497iln.98.1578688019774; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:26:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ed Maste Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:26:47 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Gcc 4.2.1 to be removed before FreeBSD 13, a firm timeline To: Warner Losh , sparc64@freebsd.org Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vZK05Psrz46S5 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of carpeddiem@gmail.com designates 209.85.166.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=carpeddiem@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.25 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[182.166.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.25)[ip: (-6.29), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.09), asn: 15169(-1.84), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[182.166.85.209.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 20:27:01 -0000 On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 at 10:00, Ed Maste wrote: > > I've been staging my gcc 4.2.1 deorbit work at > https://github.com/emaste/freebsd/tree/deorbit-gcc; I'll force-push it > on occasion after related changes make it into svn. I've put the first version of these changes into Phabricator now: 1. retire BSD_CRTBEGIN option https://reviews.freebsd.org/D23122 2. retire LLVM_LIBUNWIND option https://reviews.freebsd.org/D23123 3. rm GCC 4.2.1 build infrastructure https://reviews.freebsd.org/D23124 In my WIP branch the next two commits remove contrib/gcc and contrib/gcclibs. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 23:29:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58BED1F6882; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 23:29:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vfMK1k9hz4HQr; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 23:29:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from ivaldir.etoilebsd.net (etoilebsd.net [178.32.217.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: bapt) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1C2D45026; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 23:29:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by ivaldir.etoilebsd.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DBE34E8782; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 00:29:15 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 00:29:15 +0100 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Konstantin Belousov Cc: Ed Maste , FreeBSD Ports , freebsd-arch Subject: Re: Retiring GNU objdump 2.17.50 Message-ID: <20200110232915.e6qzdyon47xifn74@ivaldir.net> References: <20200109155610.GA23031@kib.kiev.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gpgjxs6c4y2qtjxr" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200109155610.GA23031@kib.kiev.ua> X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 23:29:17 -0000 --gpgjxs6c4y2qtjxr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jan 09, 2020 at 05:56:10PM +0200, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Thu, Jan 09, 2020 at 10:31:55AM -0500, Ed Maste wrote: > > We currently install and use at most three tools from GNU binutils > > 2.17.50, depending on target architecture: > >=20 > > 1. as - assembler > > 2. ld - linker > > 3. objdump - diagnostic / information tool > >=20 > > I hope to retire all use of these obsolete binutils before FreeBSD 13. > > Here I'd like to discuss objdump. It is a diagnostic tool that > > provides information about object files, binaries and libraries. It's > > not required as a bootstrap tool (i.e., not needed to build FreeBSD > > world or kernel). It is required to build a limited number of ports, > > and is used by some developers. > >=20 > > I have a tracking PR for GNU objdump's retirement open in PR 229046. > > https://bugs.freebsd.org/229046. > >=20 > > There are two ways we can proceed with its retirement: > >=20 > > 1. Remove it without replacement. Ports that need objdump to build > > will have to depend on the binutils package/port, and users who wish > > to use it will have to install it. > >=20 > > Related links for this path: > > Ports exp-run: https://bugs.freebsd.org/212319 > > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7338 > >=20 > > 2. Install llvm-objdump in its place (perhaps via a symlink). > > llvm-objdump is broadly compatible in both command-line argument > > parsing and output format, but there are many small differences and > > it's not a full drop-in replacement. > >=20 > > Related links for this path: > > Patch review: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D18307 > >=20 > > I am interested in feedback on the preferred approach. Installing > > llvm's objdump has the advantage that for most use cases everything > > will "just work", but may also introduce subtle failures. >=20 > IMO no. 1 is preferrable because we do not need to track differences, nor > we need to explain them. Having to install binutils port is not a high c= ost, > and if somebody needs details about binary at the level provided by objdu= mp, > including disassembler, she would need binutils port anyway. I completly agree with kib here. Best regards, Bapt --gpgjxs6c4y2qtjxr Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEgOTj3suS2urGXVU3Y4mL3PG3PloFAl4ZCMkACgkQY4mL3PG3 Plrvqw//QYwhpdOz1tKWaqvy5SuuHJhZdSw+yXquOg96iGunrUArtnJzjy39GtZf NpcW5/VsAmGqjzLkmX/GO2kM9EYJgGtrrkZuNwHE9su+Q1euaIoKjVNmX0M7xc/u E9WRLSjzFLjEnUJWo3WqtZjvY/Zq2i/I3+qBOR9CgRfBe3F9kzf1TvS1xclqRpJR /i1DBAS81kfPrJ15gOA0aGBx13nIpJ+6kEwJRJjXRCCwaqWb6xtTsQGl2mSzTLo6 plukAGPZKKyV7dBplERTrv8q5nsXL1H3Z2tg5p6XPo86ILlWnzoIIBCplWhr8L0E 6FzEzm6SRYKYHsKGSEB3Lr/lTPp3C6ojlzkYK5fazlH9CFIieNdUk+lfpIhaoYZU o5/R86BIpz9W/o9IR7RqtJKNEZ2gQn3Bzw/9p3+1NJXi2C3d1ZU8Lf0nMsUx4lp6 DfbG8rj9FXoPQM/IWuEnzb+ct16tNSjia2wR6ZFm92BmOEJrN3lzYZyZX0ojOqtM To72JSutiPkqiFom19DzmU+bfA3tNpQZzGxO5t8ZW9GtYflRUg5t45Q2ueojxPOz Ps+/VqHanrjQ6b5ZLmhExmhc44ca87sY5c62FeryCCeRo9JTtCUh4AEK5e8hAPwn XnVmcNSOsqThpyjKZ2H038Bjzrc8ZnCeUiB893XJztrKpW80PSI= =32T/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gpgjxs6c4y2qtjxr--