From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Aug 18 07:21:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C473B1964 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 07:21:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x834.google.com (mail-qt1-x834.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::834]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BW2QD3v4Tz4r8q for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 07:21:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x834.google.com with SMTP id w9so14435786qts.6 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 00:21:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; 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Tue, 18 Aug 2020 00:21:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 01:20:56 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: PC Card, gone in 13 To: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1597735269; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: dkim-signature; bh=v15X98qZm99LDm9q5yyBqR4ZgYBzonWanozvP7WxQW0=; b=nfQyu2aPaK5o6zJPBy4IQ28PvrpOYu5wep1qsQhxTR197M3OqKnbL99GVaL47oexR95RUZ tVSRLbjGO9NUZG/SjzI3YBQ9bjRwKA2xaPV0oA0GC2W/1V9ebpWHHUjdoRfbYa9RFTi+He EWmX8FqClv879DhwtMdio+qiKa2SMS1CY14Vi92exHII3fyngQkeDUJkK867Y19m1InGUP Uv1C1qIDoqmLe+Cv5+O8KybuAenDsAbnumPuwsw6iivYKz1IV50ZeKQDL+Kb/eiJ0+S58f u6mFAbTFWCKDBRA8wgswtSWuYwYdatLRKkqgvXCouNpZ5n6M9+euNUq9OcpG8A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1597735269; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=mA2JNw60v8jS/tSIDrwFHGKsyTEAYXFH7Q/2Rls4FjdlmDcqnr+bl57DMJE2Rq6zm+f3yj aRWKpLMgElAwJ0puibVylZthRHzJCot8M2O3d5nqtu3qulvc/Vj0tWV8QdIcWUNtwaXfka xFtvqBL9xicAM86gZhXimzSuy5vtnA+JXi5UDwe7blsuxRyHUoxxUenb8vMdjsWWAqECVO secbW/u6ui0UiiiLtw0D3h77P5O6iq7R1s5YUuw2/DyWmjCuQTnGgrS/CgqjFsmBI+/AeY XfbYgN6M4kjCqu96LJU4SmkcYafhZX6EJEI9NuQ6t7Jz5M3b8zO9RGirt7gu8g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; 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NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.00)[0.001]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::834:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.48)[-0.478]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 07:21:09 -0000 As discussed in the past, it's time to remove PC Card support. Not CardBus support, but PC Card support. this is the16-bit PCMCIA stuff from long ago. It relied on many 16-bit drivers that have since been removed from the tree. What remains is a shadow of its former self. There used to be two dozen or so drivers. This has dwindled down to 9, none of which are especially relevant (and all of which have replacement hardware available). The drivers to be removed: an, cmx, wi, ng_bt3c Attachments to be removed: ata, fdc, ndis, puc, uart an and wi are old 802.11b drivers that are no longer relevant. cmx is a smart card reader. nb_bt3c is a super-old blue-tooth adapter. None of these are really relevant to a modern or even half modern system. There's no systems that FreeBSD supports that are 16-bit only PC Card systems. They all support CardBus, and there's a number of supported drivers there (though they too are getting old). I've created a review at https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26095 to add the deprecation notices. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Aug 18 20:45:53 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 903113C6E3A for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 20:45:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BWNGn2jFbz4dKr for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 20:45:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 5B0AE3C6CA6; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 20:45:53 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59AD33C6CA5; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 20:45:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BWNGl74N0z4dNL; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 20:45:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 07IKjg5A084740 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 18 Aug 2020 23:45:45 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua 07IKjg5A084740 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 07IKjg8U084739; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 23:45:42 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 23:45:42 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: arch@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Cc: peter@holm.cc Subject: Process group orphaning fixes Message-ID: <20200818204542.GR2551@kib.kiev.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on tom.home X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BWNGl74N0z4dNL X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=softfail (mx1.freebsd.org: 2001:470:d5e7:1::1 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of kostikbel@gmail.com) smtp.mailfrom=kostikbel@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.87 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[gmail.com : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.87)[0.868]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all:c]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:2001:470::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[arch,current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 20:45:53 -0000 I fixed several issues in our handling of the process group job control state, biggest of which was uncovered by the reaping facility. The bugs demostrate itself and underflow (and probably overflow) of pgrp->pg_jobc, that was reported as panics with added and then removed asserts. Feel free to participate in review at https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26116. See the review summary for more detailed description of the bugs and the patch itself. Targeted tests were narrowed down by Peter Holm, who also tested the proposed patch. From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Aug 19 00:57:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACC583AC6BF for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 00:57:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from lax.lemis.com (www.lemis.com [45.32.70.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BWTs549xsz3gBT for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 00:57:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from eureka.lemis.com (aussie-gw.lemis.com [167.179.139.35]) by lax.lemis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5753280B2; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 00:57:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eureka.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 082CF26359A; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 10:57:22 +1000 (AEST) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 10:57:21 +1000 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Warner Losh Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: PC Card, gone in 13 Message-ID: <20200819005721.GA80463@eureka.lemis.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-3-5309-0418 Mobile: +61-490-494-038. Use only as instructed. WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.1 (2016-04-27) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BWTs549xsz3gBT X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of grog@lemis.com has no SPF policy when checking 45.32.70.18) smtp.mailfrom=grog@lemis.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.64 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[grog]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.16)[0.160]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[grog@FreeBSD.org,grog@lemis.com]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:45.32.64.0/19, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[grog@FreeBSD.org,grog@lemis.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arch]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 00:57:30 -0000 --rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Tuesday, 18 August 2020 at 1:20:56 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > As discussed in the past, it's time to remove PC Card support. Not CardBus > support, but PC Card support. this is the16-bit PCMCIA stuff from long ago. > It relied on many 16-bit drivers that have since been removed from the > tree. What remains is a shadow of its former self. There used to be two > dozen or so drivers. This has dwindled down to 9, none of which are > especially relevant (and all of which have replacement hardware available). I still have an old machine with PCMCIA hardware. > The drivers to be removed: an, cmx, wi, ng_bt3c Notably wi. > an and wi are old 802.11b drivers that are no longer relevant. A lot depends on the hardware, of course. It's certainly relevant to my old Dell machine. > There's no systems that FreeBSD supports that are 16-bit only PC > Card systems. I suppose that depends on what you mean by "supports". However: these old machines all have (by modern standards) tiny memory. My Dell machine has 256 MB RAM, so modern versions of FreeBSD just won't run on it. More to the point, the wi driver has been broken for years, so clearly nobody cares about it. I'm in agreement with removing the support. If anybody (including myself) really wants to run this old stuff, they can use an earlier release of FreeBSD. Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. 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Wed, 19 Aug 2020 04:26:32 +0000 From: Rick Macklem To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey , Warner Losh CC: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: PC Card, gone in 13 Thread-Topic: PC Card, gone in 13 Thread-Index: AQHWdcO5T+fEjSoXtEetTdZuuC7O46k+1FNU Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 04:26:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <20200819005721.GA80463@eureka.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <20200819005721.GA80463@eureka.lemis.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: fd017335-0325-4a15-f5eb-08d843f80d26 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: YQBPR0101MB0738: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: drIWEF6pkuDb3VN3pHWn5zeaswu4IDHEJ/+NJRnDHXeR5x1nu0OtqbNR2V6a8U8GGgscCu3uCzBbcJxCRRHWJVsqipsDsR+6wQ8wQo56Gv2PpEI4bgx55M9pvFZ73cd6AyXbOaCoq5qu573PfJKldvYmZTKR0/ScBo9ob4Kh/93XgCBxrie/+owikpScEHbyxEz5KnbkCf0F7uHMjBb6t5W/TCZkuLyc5u6NQRBPRAKSaGYwSYAlOIXuGZu6x4Smm268jjY2ZZSvB+99DPSO/Cfz/tQrfAqE67N3GMYehL2SI3udwBKmqUE1G0oO2BgtEbHAMl/jGtfeIO0731RIZaVG03vAI2lM6BFmf6paxzj9598dvAhDZz0cscp6M5P1fdmN8oz1Xbx89LhUiruyKQ== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: uoguelph.ca X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: QB1PR01MB3364.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: fd017335-0325-4a15-f5eb-08d843f80d26 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Aug 2020 04:26:32.3723 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: be62a12b-2cad-49a1-a5fa-85f4f3156a7d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: EvgvnSMFbvk1rRoj6mVAjpT0Lep/qIG9Ho/4kDJ+USWg8xX+hRNLC+Jt+B1HkyVBnrLTaHGSD3XleGPz11ydng== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: YQBPR0101MB0738 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BWZVW0GfCz49VN X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=uoguelph.ca header.s=selector1 header.b=OCuiYmEe; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rmacklem@uoguelph.ca designates 2a01:111:f400:fe5c::630 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rmacklem@uoguelph.ca X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.62 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[uoguelph.ca:s=selector1]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[rmacklem]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a01:111:f400::/48]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[uoguelph.ca]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[uoguelph.ca:dkim]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[uoguelph.ca:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.12)[-1.115]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:2a01:111:f000::/36, country:US]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arch] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 04:26:43 -0000 Greg Lehey wrote:=0A= >On Tuesday, 18 August 2020 at 1:20:56 -0600, Warner Losh wrote:=0A= >> As discussed in the past, it's time to remove PC Card support. Not CardB= us=0A= >> support, but PC Card support. this is the16-bit PCMCIA stuff from long a= go.=0A= >> It relied on many 16-bit drivers that have since been removed from the= =0A= >> tree. What remains is a shadow of its former self. There used to be two= =0A= >> dozen or so drivers. This has dwindled down to 9, none of which are=0A= >> especially relevant (and all of which have replacement hardware availabl= e).=0A= >=0A= >I still have an old machine with PCMCIA hardware.=0A= >=0A= >> The drivers to be removed: an, cmx, wi, ng_bt3c=0A= >=0A= >Notably wi.=0A= >=0A= >> an and wi are old 802.11b drivers that are no longer relevant.=0A= >=0A= >A lot depends on the hardware, of course. It's certainly relevant to=0A= >my old Dell machine.=0A= >=0A= >> There's no systems that FreeBSD supports that are 16-bit only PC=0A= >> Card systems.=0A= >=0A= >I suppose that depends on what you mean by "supports".=0A= >=0A= >However: these old machines all have (by modern standards) tiny=0A= >memory. My Dell machine has 256 MB RAM, so modern versions of FreeBSD=0A= >just won't run on it.=0A= FreeBSD-current works fine on my 256Mbyte i386. Building a kernel does=0A= require patience and I'm not foolish enough to try a "make universe" on it.= =0A= =0A= Having said that, I have no problem with PCMCIA going away.=0A= =0A= rick=0A= =0A= > More to the point, the wi driver has been=0A= >broken for years, so clearly nobody cares about it. I'm in agreement=0A= >with removing the support. If anybody (including myself) really wants=0A= >to run this old stuff, they can use an earlier release of FreeBSD.=0A= >=0A= >Greg=0A= --=0A= Sent from my desktop computer.=0A= See complete headers for address and phone numbers.=0A= This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program=0A= reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA=0A= From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Aug 20 11:56:48 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EE023BBD88 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 11:56:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from mx0.gid.co.uk (mx0.gid.co.uk [194.32.164.250]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BXNRL4T5bz4M47; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 11:56:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.27] ([194.32.164.27]) by mx0.gid.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id 07KBucO8011021; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:56:38 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.15\)) Subject: Re: PC Card, gone in 13 From: Bob Bishop In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:56:37 +0100 Cc: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" , Warner Losh , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <80713570-6427-41FE-B432-94CC1CA96E2F@gid.co.uk> References: <20200819005721.GA80463@eureka.lemis.com> To: Rick Macklem X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.15) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BXNRL4T5bz4M47 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rb@gid.co.uk designates 194.32.164.250 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rb@gid.co.uk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.46 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gid.co.uk]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.80)[-0.800]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.04)[0.044]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42831, ipnet:194.32.164.0/24, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arch] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 11:56:48 -0000 Hi, > On 19 Aug 2020, at 05:26, Rick Macklem wrote: >=20 > Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Tuesday, 18 August 2020 at 1:20:56 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: >>> As discussed in the past, it's time to remove PC Card support. Not = CardBus >>> support, but PC Card support. this is the16-bit PCMCIA stuff from = long ago. >>> It relied on many 16-bit drivers that have since been removed from = the >>> tree. What remains is a shadow of its former self. There used to be = two >>> dozen or so drivers. This has dwindled down to 9, none of which are >>> especially relevant (and all of which have replacement hardware = available). >>=20 >> I still have an old machine with PCMCIA hardware. >>=20 >>> The drivers to be removed: an, cmx, wi, ng_bt3c >>=20 >> Notably wi. >>=20 >>> an and wi are old 802.11b drivers that are no longer relevant. >>=20 >> A lot depends on the hardware, of course. It's certainly relevant to >> my old Dell machine. >>=20 >>> There's no systems that FreeBSD supports that are 16-bit only PC >>> Card systems. >>=20 >> I suppose that depends on what you mean by "supports". >>=20 >> However: these old machines all have (by modern standards) tiny >> memory. My Dell machine has 256 MB RAM, so modern versions of = FreeBSD >> just won't run on it. > FreeBSD-current works fine on my 256Mbyte i386. I have a Soekris net4801 with 128MB RAM running CURRENT i386 at r364182 = with the GENERIC kernel. That doesn=E2=80=99t mean it=E2=80=99s a great idea, but everything = works and it=E2=80=99s possible to compile stuff if you aren=E2=80=99t = in a rush. This box does have 128GB of SSD to work with though. > Building a kernel does > require patience and I'm not foolish enough to try a "make universe" = on it. >=20 > Having said that, I have no problem with PCMCIA going away. >=20 > rick >=20 >> More to the point, the wi driver has been >> broken for years, so clearly nobody cares about it. I'm in agreement >> with removing the support. If anybody (including myself) really = wants >> to run this old stuff, they can use an earlier release of FreeBSD. >>=20 >> Greg > -- > Sent from my desktop computer. > See complete headers for address and phone numbers. > This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program > reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 -- Bob Bishop t: +44 (0)118 940 1243 rb@gid.co.uk m: +44 (0)783 626 4518