From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 00:06:04 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C541E6F33 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 00:06:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic305-21.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic305-21.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.64.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47qzSW2Rr1z4nxv for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 00:06:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: 1YByXBsVM1l7iIRDXLdXXMYuGN74KNl3wgeC5CE13UHsSYOfhsoVi1_IeIkshVR PAkAdqqhj3zOpdyzVBe9ZFOgrQj_cLKCMuZAtkaBfdy.yOOA4bUGk2SqqJEbrRVP0r3fwhDg.MpG tTqzoCuQFHc3y1L.ZFFy.MgAM.cxjKDWPbrvP0RelfbiDb_QM4Lexp4WjdGqZ_Xbvkh4Whk_JOsT WmwPc9rGI8dkP1vpyHmD3_en.CFu1957zHuv1j93P4gZvmztCLgCWfajIAr1BiOROzOxi0I8w032 wEi42PTFetoA2vH9N85jGoLeELLEWpOpRIY5OTezMkl407z4gWR9QwVsSS4A8pw3xHJGJ_A38CN6 NxpmWDfN4bo3E6ehZVga45LwGx0zXPTQ4liz_Q7zau949Ap7Kh3LpTO0Gcj7IWBuJ5T2Ts9mf4Qo DeeD1Drb04hFzabtYSGbwN2gbud5ciY3XBYrKVLipda.tECBZXHN8TeJ8FHkbaOMC48k_gVTohqd mMaLZ_PRfhdxC.d73mdx_TcwUSdlAIMg_Bz_dlRR44Z7N3e5ebjUADb9feEbnccI8aXND8FE5kAL 2juDNAwDDC2359H0AIlllq43lEWo1f_oHU4E_K_rv4UY3V8ITm33bvmd3eL4pYTV865bsoW5bcP5 G7.Vt8iunTyUsdjzg9pN0AFK8VrkDDtNcsONb.0WIMc_kTtWojBX_5xEJgeE_lVMo6DXABhn6h1T nKzcSl6naz_yaUucn7kmS_vDptFSeITm6J56G.DSwS1eFFqrO8JHrm3TEunX.W7XH5E8s20mN25W RMgZ8USwhFH1QC0INc29u_Svb6qYBmv5HPoHphLFX9WpFHPKXyCxaxCREOyTUFThXJKgsNFbsaFW 6_gXDRI3dlGhVCddHSKA2C9XfgAgkhX2x7v0dbEfVJI5fuFHRnj.VoC9t7rVRLgJqHFPh076y6gV 9ebiIgJDb4Xv30r6bYOkMZuJYCcNGw8xafPR9xMMhCM0wygqOnYjVm1LX_g1bI.h9D9Iq24F015A oYPjxEmtydZJO4Gcqx8932EY756YjV859Of__DVQJ1vcETH0PvaBv8bYODBK4o2aQHp8YyXVGgk5 GcV.u6lx6XM7NFMh3DYLixtJtuM09dgBK9YFgR_i2gi1YCxhRhfktFi1s.2L_PWq8cywjrCvEygy XUcXI_cIdB_rKEEpwRB8xezxO1kCGZPV.JpmE5PwRHlKAbnCnFbw3Tgenb6JCk1_rrQR1lOjDcxw 3MxcBPN8ZJTqERsipfJzBIqD8Y.mC5VudVm_usxOXYibZ7HWp_j1.1O65R.j_9BxLZPQQq5GHudK ND1p5j3jN0sef.nAn47BEUTgAHAog8_U8Dpr6zTju8ZRSeO3XLAJLDWslQaebnf_2k8ncxF9Uhlv z88Vaet4yakD_sNjQdd_EeEVCPSFWZw-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 00:06:01 +0000 Received: by smtp429.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 8ff9280250688b8909cf2047ad72c312; Sun, 05 Jan 2020 00:06:00 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.40.2.2.4\)) Subject: Re: processes are killed because of out of swap space Message-Id: Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 16:05:59 -0800 To: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.40.2.2.4) References: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47qzSW2Rr1z4nxv X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.91 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.10)[-0.105,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.30)[-0.300,0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[84.64.137.98.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (5.69), ipnet: 98.137.64.0/21(0.88), asn: 36647(0.70), country: US(-0.05)]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 00:06:04 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wojtek at puchar.net wrote on Sat Jan 4 22:35:35 UTC 2020 : > when i try to use more virtual memory (tested by putting files to tmpfs > /tmp). > > > like that > > pid 16977 (bhyve), jid 0, uid 0, was killed: out of swap space Unfortunately, the wording of this type of message is a misnomer for what typically drives the kills: it is actually driven by being unable to gain more free memory when it is below threshold but FreeBSD will not swap-out processes that stay runnable (or are running), only ones that are waiting. Even a single process that stays runnable and keeps lots of RAM in the active category can lead to kills when swap is unused or little used. So the kill-behavior is very workload dependent. Real "out of swap" conditions (tend to?) also have messages similar to: Aug 5 17:54:01 sentinel kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed If you are not seeing such swap_pager_getswapspace messages, then it is likely that the mount of swap space still available is not the actual thing driving the kills. Another thing that can lead to kills is paging I/O that is slow. > the problem is that it's less than 10GB swap used while i have 120GB > available. That fits with the above comments. > before processed begin to be killed system stalls for a while. The below notes may or may not prove useful for your context. For delaying how long free RAM staying low is tolerated, one can increase vm.pageout_oom_seq from 12 to larger. The management of slow paging I've less experience with but do have some notes about below. Examples follow that I use in contexts with sufficient RAM that I do not have to worry about out of swap/page space. These I've set in /etc/sysctl.conf . (Of coruse, I'm not trying to deliberately run out of RAM.) # # Delay when persisstent low free RAM leads to # Out Of Memory killing of processes: vm.pageout_oom_seq=120 (I'll note that figures like 1024 or 1200 or even more are possible. This is controlling how many tries at regaining sufficient free RAM that that level would be tolerated long-term. After that it starts Out Of Memory kills to get some free RAM.) # # For plunty of swap/paging space (will not # run out), avoid pageout delays leading to # Out Of Memory killing of processes: vm.pfault_oom_attempts=-1 (Note: In my context "plunty" really means sufficient RAM that paging is rare. But others have reported on using the -1 in contexts where paging was heavy at times and OOM kills had been happening that were eliminated by the assignment.) I've no experience with the below alternative to that -1 use: # # For possibly insufficient swap/paging space # (might run out), increase the pageout delay # that leads to Out Of Memory killing of # processes: #vm.pfault_oom_attempts= ??? #vm.pfault_oom_wait= ??? # (The multiplication is the total but there # are other potential tradoffs in the factors # multiplied, even for nearly the same total.) I'm not claiming that these 3 vm.???_oom_??? figures are always sufficient. Nor am I claiming that tunables are always available that would be sufficient. Nor that it is easy to find the ones that do exist that might help for specific OOM kill issues. I have seen reports of OOM kills for other reasons when both vm.pageout_oom_seq and vm.pfault_oom_attempts=-1 were in use. As I understand, FreeBSD did not report what kibnd of condition lead to the decision to do an OOM kill. (I do not remember the vm.pageout_oom_seq figures from those reports but no figure is designed to make the delay unbounded. There may be large enough figures to effectively be bounded beyond any reasonable time to wait for an oom.) === Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com ( dsl-only.net went away in early 2018-Mar) From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 10:26:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DA761DBA4F for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 10:26:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crees@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47rFDt0ybCz48ZZ for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 10:26:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crees@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 20E981DBA4E; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 10:26:54 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20A861DBA4D for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 10:26:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crees@freebsd.org) Received: from mail50c50.megamailservers.eu (mail166c50.megamailservers.eu [91.136.10.176]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rFDs33lkz48ZX; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 10:26:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crees@freebsd.org) X-Authenticated-User: crees@uwclub.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1578220010; bh=6rf6Mll5em0sqShE2WO8avFETpgjS7tqCLkbTy8qysE=; h=Date:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:To:From:From; b=otijVUCX8rqsmMJTIEBwl/+fwNslJ6aWLZk8HFLPjVhLBKWzZgeBCcVsh55kr5s09 d+p6jPwXozi8+86NNYYy4TxVPP+Hba9FFk7WeKsZBNe3IWyWcpJxDaqi01AB2ZYNRv 26d9CDQMEJOrIbgyxgzKBYRjmc9YSJwRCUvD2eyM= Feedback-ID: crees@freebsd.o Received: from pegasus.bayofrum.net (host-92-16-36-61.as13285.net [92.16.36.61]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail50c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 005AQnKT013986; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 10:26:50 +0000 Received: from R.lan (176-35-83-100.xdsl.murphx.net [176.35.83.100]) by pegasus.bayofrum.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BE9D1E5FF; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 10:26:46 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 10:26:50 +0000 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <39ea5ba8-00d6-c5b2-4719-fba23bb53856@bayofrum.net> References: <33a74368-73a7-fdc0-4655-cfce88d865e6@FreeBSD.org> <39ea5ba8-00d6-c5b2-4719-fba23bb53856@bayofrum.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Fixing audio/oss to use callout instead of timeouts To: Chris Rees , hackers@FreeBSD.org, jhb@freebsd.org From: Chris Rees Message-ID: <78949DD3-1152-429C-A685-F736B4B80E55@FreeBSD.org> X-bayofrum-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-bayofrum-MailScanner-ID: BE9D1E5FF.AC376 X-bayofrum-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-bayofrum-MailScanner-From: crees@freebsd.org X-Spam-Status: No X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A0B0210.5E11B9EA.001C, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=N4FX6F1B c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=ExehvxHEHCe6C2o3spqpZQ==:117 a=ExehvxHEHCe6C2o3spqpZQ==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=Jdjhy38mL1oA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=ZB5LerlCAAAA:8 a=rBVGbDY6LXgkKXX8UWsA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=YKPTzOroS2oaEK2QgPcx:22 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rFDs33lkz48ZX X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.92 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.94)[-0.944,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.978,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:9115, ipnet:91.136.0.0/17, country:GB] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 10:26:54 -0000 On 4 January 2020 21:29:10 GMT, Chris Rees wrote: >[Keeping -hackers CC'd as again I've failed with from address :/] > >On 2020-01-04 21:27, Chris Rees wrote: >> Hi John, >> >> On 2020-01-04 13:39, John Baldwin wrote: >>> On 1/2/20 3:47 PM, Chris Rees wrote: >>>> Hi Hackers (and perhaps John, as the author of r355732, sorry for=20 >>>> the duplicate), >>>> >>>> I've attempted to use the callout functions instead of the now=20 >>>> removed timeout functions for audio/oss, and I *think* that the >code=20 >>>> already stores and retrieves the list of handlers, so it should be >a=20 >>>> simple swap out. >>>> >>>> I've made this modification and run the module with mpg123 for a=20 >>>> while and it hasn't killed my laptop, but I'd just like to check=20 >>>> that I have the principle correct and haven't missed anything >obvious. >>>> >>>> Please would you let me know if there is anything else I should >have=20 >>>> done? >>>> >>>> >https://www.bayofrum.net/cgi-bin/fossil/oss/vinfo/ad269d7cbc02bf38?diff=3D2 > >>>> >>>> >>>> (This is the change I've made to kernel/OS/FreeBSD/os_freebsd.c in >oss) >>>> >>>> >https://www.bayofrum.net/cgi-bin/fossil/oss/vinfo/ad269d7cbc02bf38?diff=3D= 2&dc=3D9999 > >>>> >>> A few suggestions: >>> >>> 1) You should do the callout_init() during a SYSINIT or MOD_LOAD=20 >>> event to initialize >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 all the timers at once instead of doing it in oss_ti= meout(). >>> >>> 2) You should then add a SYSUNINIT or MOD_UNLOAD that uses=20 >>> callout_drain(). >>> >>> 3) You should add a mutex to protect the tmouts array and=20 >>> timeout_random, etc. >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 and use callout_init_mtx with that lock, but probabl= y use=20 >>> CALLOUT_RETURNUNLOCKED >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 and drop the mutex right before calling the function= (you can=20 >>> store the function >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 pointer and void * argument in local variables befor= e dropping=20 >>> the lock to >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 be safe. >>> >>> 4) If possible, you should really alter the oss API so that drivers=20 >>> don't use >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 a timeout()-like interface, but instead use a callou= t directly=20 >>> (or an interface >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 that wraps callout).=C2=A0 This would let drivers ta= ke advantage of=20 >>> callout_init_mtx >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 with their own locks, etc. >>> >>> Does audio/oss contain all the code that makes use of oss_timeout? >>> >> Thanks so much for your feedback!=C2=A0 You've probably seen from the >naive=20 >> change my level of kernel hacking. >> >> 1-2, I think I've done here: >> >> >https://www.bayofrum.net/cgi-bin/fossil/oss/vdiff?from=3Dae2a86&to=3Db4376= 737b9d4a127 > >> >> >> (full context:=20 >> >https://www.bayofrum.net/cgi-bin/fossil/oss/vdiff?from=3Dae2a86&to=3Db4376= 737b9d4a127&dc=3D9999) >> >> 3. The function pointer is constant, and the argument is a local=20 >> variable I think. >> >> 4. I agree, but I think it'd kill portability, and to be honest, the=20 >> only reason I even use OSS is just for my CMI8788 soundcard. If I've=20 >> managed this, I'm looking at porting the driver to FreeBSD's native=20 >> sound driver.=C2=A0 I don't think anyone uses OSS for any other reason. >> >> (5.) Yes, it doesn't appear elsewhere. >> >> Have I correctly understood you? >> Ok, I see I slightly misunderstood where you told me to put the locks. https://www.bayofrum.net/cgi-bin/fossil/oss/vdiff?from=3Dae2a86&to=3Da10bd4= 8&dc=3D9999 I'm fairly confident this is what you meant and should be acceptable... I'= ve properly done what you said in (3) now. Chris --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 12:11:05 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1AFC1E7FDB for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 12:11:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rHY43xSzz4FG5 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 12:11:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 005CAvRx019446 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 5 Jan 2020 13:10:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578226259; bh=blMDoEySzPIY6f2OXew4HIFCuV7TsCgiuDOGEiWBAWw=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=IYDdVpnLVnUCG9FezgAV7xgl81Stm2iSySMV0LYRYA1xlhVJBzzipuTTFRLS40fIV mhWgHaKSeb+g2h6bP93LIjTB4xv8FGKvTboZOpbHdOWvZ8gBsfyKWQls5w/mwMRWWT 2ALoJbgXP3RwZfsmzjLRT8/xV2PT/JzK0BBYz2nk= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 005CAvI5019443; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 13:10:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 13:10:57 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Millard cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: processes are killed because of out of swap space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rHY43xSzz4FG5 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=IYDdVpnL; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.46 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-3.16)[ip: (-8.34), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-4.17), asn: 43476(-3.34), country: PL(0.07)]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 12:11:05 -0000 > similar to: > > Aug 5 17:54:01 sentinel kernel: swap_pager_getswapspace(32): failed > > If you are not seeing such swap_pager_getswapspace messages, then > it is likely that the mount of swap space still available is not the > actual thing driving the kills. > > Another thing that can lead to kills is paging I/O that is > slow. paging device is nvd so it's fast. And system isn't even paging heavily. but is doing geom_raid5 rebuild right now+copying lots of files to this raid (new RAID5 just created). but still - there is A LOT of memory to be reclaimed. inactive is many gigabytes on my server. > # Delay when persisstent low free RAM leads to > # Out Of Memory killing of processes: > vm.pageout_oom_seq=120 set to 300. > some free RAM.) > > # > # For plunty of swap/paging space (will not > # run out), avoid pageout delays leading to > # Out Of Memory killing of processes: > vm.pfault_oom_attempts=-1 i don't have such sysctl. is it in FreeBSD 12? i have 11.3 From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 13:08:29 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F9721EE175 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 13:08:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rJqJ1StBz4Hqb for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 13:08:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 005D8Mj8004040 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 5 Jan 2020 14:08:23 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578229703; bh=5bEl/PDQhysOi/+QP1mXreNUuApqosKwg7PtGN9Myd8=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=dttNlhqpj05t9OyEe8ssdPBYD6Aoxo9B2yyYW/WfAbWy2Trtx45KuYXOFqoJP33Wj MW5O6N7mXw2ueggLo+oB8R/gMayjwJULDv0r6EcthAIbAAY2QGYrTf4l+9ym28kgfi zdG0HIIeCG93N3h0VXo2QhROq7aGNCRiAAIGDZAE= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 005D8MeP004037; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 14:08:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 14:08:22 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Wojciech Puchar cc: Mark Millard , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: processes are killed because of out of swap space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rJqJ1StBz4Hqb X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=dttNlhqp; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.44 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-3.15)[ip: (-8.31), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-4.16), asn: 43476(-3.33), country: PL(0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 13:08:29 -0000 >> If you are not seeing such swap_pager_getswapspace messages, then >> it is likely that the mount of swap space still available is not the >> actual thing driving the kills. >> >> Another thing that can lead to kills is paging I/O that is >> slow. > > paging device is nvd so it's fast. And system isn't even paging heavily. but > is doing geom_raid5 rebuild right now+copying lots of files to this raid (new > RAID5 just created). > > > but still - there is A LOT of memory to be reclaimed. inactive is many > gigabytes on my server. > >> # Delay when persisstent low free RAM leads to >> # Out Of Memory killing of processes: >> vm.pageout_oom_seq=120 > set to 300. > >> some free RAM.) >> >> # >> # For plunty of swap/paging space (will not >> # run out), avoid pageout delays leading to >> # Out Of Memory killing of processes: >> vm.pfault_oom_attempts=-1 > > i don't have such sysctl. is it in FreeBSD 12? > i have 11.3 > after changes - no effect From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 17:25:50 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267D91DD791 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 17:25:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rQXD65s3z4WSZ for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 17:25:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 005HPjtr052470 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 18:25:46 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578245146; bh=wiC4GluQ2CY1B8oEqwi6ILTmsoZxqhzGn0VEkQqZIJ8=; h=Date:From:To:Subject; b=habgEpsxJfcp5H+vnHlJ8FdHk5oXgD9m9a35Ob8pXI5yjK5IJZtjJ8Y4JrU1p60Hg +kfxrAkzSQtbGxntfxMCcYJujz3YgDmjgUERs+Cpe2KTpUlgFtj4oB2Byxo9xmzMie LNbcs8H/eYM/0Ae0dJHCwq4No6/rsVkXsC+q460c= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 005HPj6H052467 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 18:25:45 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 18:25:45 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: nvme/nvd - trim seems to be one block a time Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rQXD65s3z4WSZ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=habgEpsx; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.43 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-3.13)[ip: (-8.28), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-4.14), asn: 43476(-3.31), country: PL(0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 17:25:50 -0000 on NVD devices trim seems to be send one block a time when used with UFS this stall whole system when deleting many gigabytes. what am i doing wrong? FreeBSD puchar.net 11.3-STABLE From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 17:29:53 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D69F81DE111 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 17:29:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com (mail-qk1-x734.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rQcw5j5sz4WlF for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 17:29:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id x1so37646580qkl.12 for ; Sun, 05 Jan 2020 09:29:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cvS13Z0GjRpksdMVNPlSWfTfEiQ9ZjEHsxPiFgSDEko=; b=IIbMDbCNL79AsQMoDVXnbNEanMlOGt39BRTxOSxUlwbhj1kYUtuQx6BDn/KZZ2+ViK 4maYwJnnqyt+od27yKA4SzJ0lUqA31i4FmmKVVjqGll/uJCf4IlJPe/M+Yl10jL7ztjt 8pGL3igZx4F7EzzTLbe3SBYG6de9C1PMYBFH4cubm5VnawT5eTRkguvbRnlmpYTgkCHI qHGRF3wugYMb8QhUD8+AsY7PO6OZnP4A4ItU6KyY+/356jz/6ta7/DinUCMVqqUjM6PZ sDgrMzaOgMfHDcIxK+KWuKo+vedKhVZ2kExwlBXxy06ohmg6e73xJXZ/StvIvAwOSFCf bxsQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cvS13Z0GjRpksdMVNPlSWfTfEiQ9ZjEHsxPiFgSDEko=; b=cpelfjq5LuJLp0IOiujCNx04P79ma3QpwG3KiGhtkXYCddYetLEsioqSiE0upnXaAx e6Q+BgdOj6UAWG8Mi9u9pkLT47yctnVtFrcSmMuYYCQveV7+YzLiFdn3/HpUCjKwtl4t hrKJ7XwHNQfoHUpN99/OnRzfvQu2hKRpOYditoKPO/HVyLgec9zdjbBMXqNHVp2+8NHE RsTUbpVBZiYyPbeD28Yz8+yx7FP6NRivu2MEAvr1MLcVwXbQjyQbxAz6eu6wv+ol6Jud QPTBQlpwynuSi5TZh4IOzG5SFyugWwsj9QKzrKRVO0hi+f7aiSCLmu1bYKZy/7vzNlar /iUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXjzROZXr3xApX8BLThm9C1D+eDsKCZCHoTBMRQzOFGeiGqfMc3 vzSIfAgr/E/fghG/znZwTkxDpL4me3Sz5ETfNhidWOUx X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqygi0U2gDb2vVhRKHA84EHN0wweoZygN7394OinNssg5IloasXxmQhR+sci5v33565rLuj1XWRQfzaA3ZJJACI= X-Received: by 2002:a37:a80a:: with SMTP id r10mr74058543qke.240.1578245391655; Sun, 05 Jan 2020 09:29:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 11:29:39 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: nvme/nvd - trim seems to be one block a time To: Wojciech Puchar Cc: FreeBSD Hackers X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rQcw5j5sz4WlF X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=IIbMDbCN; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::734) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.66 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[5]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.3.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.66)[ip: (-9.25), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.13), asn: 15169(-1.86), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 17:29:53 -0000 On Sun, Jan 5, 2020, 10:26 AM Wojciech Puchar wrote: > on NVD devices trim seems to be send one block a time when used with UFS > this stall whole system when deleting many gigabytes. > > what am i doing wrong? > That's what it does. Upgrade to 12 and you can use the trim collapsing code in UFS to reduce the number of trims, and/or use the nda device which does trim collapsing as well (ufs can only do contiguous ranges, nda does non continuous as supported in the underlying protocol). Current has even more fixes to nda. Warner FreeBSD puchar.net 11.3-STABLE > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 18:57:13 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D55F71E2714 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 18:57:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from devin@shxd.cx) Received: from shxd.cx (mail.shxd.cx [64.201.244.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rSYh3rsvz4cW7; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 18:57:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from devin@shxd.cx) Received: from [76.77.180.168] (port=52312 helo=devins-mbp.lan) by shxd.cx with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ioAC7-0003MI-7t; Sun, 05 Jan 2020 10:00:07 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] BSD-Licensed Combinatorics library/utility From: Devin Teske In-Reply-To: <17EEA2EB-D963-449F-81FE-E18DD62B2BF6@bayofrum.net> Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 10:57:02 -0800 Cc: Devin Teske , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Cy Schubert , Lars Engels , "Julian H. Stacey" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <51AD9B50-9488-45CE-878F-EE97F6914E49@freebsd.org> <201912121119.xBCBJ2Jo017249@fire.js.berklix.net> <20191212130825.GJ5400@e.0x20.net> <72753F50-8810-43C1-BDDD-E541278A146F@cschubert.com> <17EEA2EB-D963-449F-81FE-E18DD62B2BF6@bayofrum.net> To: Chris Rees X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Sender: devin@shxd.cx X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rSYh3rsvz4cW7 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of devin@shxd.cx has no SPF policy when checking 64.201.244.140) smtp.mailfrom=devin@shxd.cx X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.51 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; IP_SCORE(0.10)[ip: (0.28), ipnet: 64.201.240.0/20(0.14), asn: 36734(0.11), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.75)[0.749,0]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.97)[0.967,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[dteske@freebsd.org,devin@shxd.cx]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36734, ipnet:64.201.240.0/20, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[dteske@freebsd.org,devin@shxd.cx]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 18:57:13 -0000 > On Jan 5, 2020, at 09:26, Chris Rees wrote: >=20 > Hi Devin, >=20 > There are many examples where utilities have moved from ports to base- = portsnap being one I can think of. >=20 > I don't think that ports is really a dead zone for software- pkg = install -y cmb takes around seven seconds, and I would struggle to = imagine that anyone uses a system with no ports installed. >=20 > The argument would obviously change if you wanted to use it in = bsdinstall or similar- is that why you're frustrated here? >=20 1. Build option survey for testing different combinations of options = when building base 2. Building ports built with different combinations of options when = available Both of those situations may preclude having any packages installed. =E2=80=94=20 Devin= From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 19:06:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 522681E2AF7 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 19:06:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crees@freebsd.org) Received: from mail18c50.megamailservers.eu (mail162c50.megamailservers.eu [91.136.10.172]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rSls4qzpz4cxW; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 19:06:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crees@freebsd.org) X-Authenticated-User: crees@uwclub.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1578251152; bh=YFf5mPa1KnN0/FE4GiTInW0RvTZHVEytGZSEtNb2Lu8=; h=Date:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:To:CC:From:From; b=njqNGaQLTbQ+n6C15kZnETPNOHL2+bllGfIBauC/u1Rr5w4IPL4yBa89E5GB3YgEy 0ybzzLd0FVlKs7qfa99FYYgLrzf8D+Q4dSaWukHZ7DfVRDDRQNgSA6r3Db+VVBsnO4 xsiBBH0sCJ8Gq2w1eIlMhr2YasNU+NPPoFM5SPDg= Feedback-ID: crees@freebsd.o Received: from pegasus.bayofrum.net (host-92-16-36-61.as13285.net [92.16.36.61]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail18c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 005J5ngE007582; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 19:05:51 +0000 Received: from R.bayofrum.net (R.bayofrum.net [192.168.1.72]) by pegasus.bayofrum.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 353C6F9A3; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 19:05:48 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 19:05:52 +0000 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <51AD9B50-9488-45CE-878F-EE97F6914E49@freebsd.org> <201912121119.xBCBJ2Jo017249@fire.js.berklix.net> <20191212130825.GJ5400@e.0x20.net> <72753F50-8810-43C1-BDDD-E541278A146F@cschubert.com> <17EEA2EB-D963-449F-81FE-E18DD62B2BF6@bayofrum.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] BSD-Licensed Combinatorics library/utility To: Devin Teske CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Cy Schubert , Lars Engels , "Julian H. Stacey" From: Chris Rees Message-ID: <207F328C-0557-4BA5-9C1D-12BFB227F8D4@FreeBSD.org> X-bayofrum-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-bayofrum-MailScanner-ID: 353C6F9A3.A9A73 X-bayofrum-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-bayofrum-MailScanner-From: crees@freebsd.org X-Spam-Status: No X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A0B0215.5E123390.000A, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=dfr+Ikfe c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=ExehvxHEHCe6C2o3spqpZQ==:117 a=ExehvxHEHCe6C2o3spqpZQ==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=Jdjhy38mL1oA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=ZB5LerlCAAAA:8 a=3kbS8QpPvqdMoUVq7uYA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=YKPTzOroS2oaEK2QgPcx:22 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rSls4qzpz4cxW X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.92 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.95)[-0.945,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.979,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:9115, ipnet:91.136.0.0/17, country:GB] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 19:06:02 -0000 On 5 January 2020 18:57:02 GMT, Devin Teske wrote: > > >> On Jan 5, 2020, at 09:26, Chris Rees wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Devin, >>=20 >> There are many examples where utilities have moved from ports to >base- portsnap being one I can think of. >>=20 >> I don't think that ports is really a dead zone for software- pkg >install -y cmb takes around seven seconds, and I would struggle to >imagine that anyone uses a system with no ports installed. >>=20 >> The argument would obviously change if you wanted to use it in >bsdinstall or similar- is that why you're frustrated here? >>=20 > >1. Build option survey for testing different combinations of options >when building base >2. Building ports built with different combinations of options when >available > >Both of those situations may preclude having any packages installed. We use devel/ccache with poudriere all the time- it's not really a big prob= lem. Having it in ports has the massive advantages that it becomes available for= all versions of FreeBSD, as well as having immediate bugfixes and the most= up to date version available at all times. Granted, it does appear pretty mature... but given that no one needs to app= rove a port being added (and there are many people who would gladly make on= e), it would definitely be the best first step to get wider exposure more q= uickly. Even while the decisions on importing are ongoing, you could stick it in a = port today. "Ports are just as much a part of the OS as base". Chris --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 19:12:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D71121E2F69 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 19:12:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rStm46GCz4dWT for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 19:12:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 005JBrgk017173 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 5 Jan 2020 20:11:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578251514; bh=d0dN7VjTl8z2OOBMM1Z5kAEOAtqgeQbKq6NyKUAp5YQ=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=h1GljR4xtcyy/tapD1gsZeKMSGD8oCSXSZK6+5C7cMoWkXLzm2cl0A7aODuEePqgU Ls0NpNC62moCtglY5312QjoAmeTotCvq3kH0bj5vND2oXPCVD+Bg3olGYe2hnGi7qy p+kJGfLc5NG2S8r9QKu4CKyxbDOJ/e/0lxfCvFRQ= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 005JBrcO017170; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 20:11:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 20:11:53 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Warner Losh cc: Wojciech Puchar , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: nvme/nvd - trim seems to be one block a time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rStm46GCz4dWT X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=h1GljR4x; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.42 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-3.12)[ip: (-8.25), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-4.12), asn: 43476(-3.30), country: PL(0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 19:12:01 -0000 > > what am i doing wrong? > > > That's what it does. Upgrade to 12 and you can use the trim collapsing code in UFS to reduce the number of trims, so there is a final reason to upgrade. i will - after using it on my laptop for some time. For now i just disabled trim for this 2 UFS partitions. Not a problem really as it's just 1/8 of SSD space, the rest are virtual machines that do trim properly or unused space. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 19:14:11 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEF0D1E3217 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 19:14:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from devin@shxd.cx) Received: from shxd.cx (mail.shxd.cx [64.201.244.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rSxH5Jtxz4dmf; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 19:14:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from devin@shxd.cx) Received: from [76.77.180.168] (port=52467 helo=devins-mbp.lan) by shxd.cx with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ioASf-0003vV-Ag; Sun, 05 Jan 2020 10:17:13 -0800 From: Devin Teske Message-Id: <951A6CD9-5184-4B67-A852-14175ADD77E0@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] BSD-Licensed Combinatorics library/utility Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 11:14:08 -0800 In-Reply-To: <207F328C-0557-4BA5-9C1D-12BFB227F8D4@FreeBSD.org> Cc: Devin Teske , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Cy Schubert , Lars Engels , "Julian H. Stacey" To: Chris Rees References: <51AD9B50-9488-45CE-878F-EE97F6914E49@freebsd.org> <201912121119.xBCBJ2Jo017249@fire.js.berklix.net> <20191212130825.GJ5400@e.0x20.net> <72753F50-8810-43C1-BDDD-E541278A146F@cschubert.com> <17EEA2EB-D963-449F-81FE-E18DD62B2BF6@bayofrum.net> <207F328C-0557-4BA5-9C1D-12BFB227F8D4@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Sender: devin@shxd.cx X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rSxH5Jtxz4dmf X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 19:14:11 -0000 > On Jan 5, 2020, at 11:05, Chris Rees wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 5 January 2020 18:57:02 GMT, Devin Teske > wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Jan 5, 2020, at 09:26, Chris Rees wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi Devin, >>>=20 >>> There are many examples where utilities have moved from ports to >> base- portsnap being one I can think of. >>>=20 >>> I don't think that ports is really a dead zone for software- pkg >> install -y cmb takes around seven seconds, and I would struggle to >> imagine that anyone uses a system with no ports installed. >>>=20 >>> The argument would obviously change if you wanted to use it in >> bsdinstall or similar- is that why you're frustrated here? >>>=20 >>=20 >> 1. Build option survey for testing different combinations of options >> when building base >> 2. Building ports built with different combinations of options when >> available >>=20 >> Both of those situations may preclude having any packages installed. >=20 > We use devel/ccache with poudriere all the time- it's not really a big = problem. >=20 > Having it in ports has the massive advantages that it becomes = available for all versions of FreeBSD, as well as having immediate = bugfixes and the most up to date version available at all times. >=20 > Granted, it does appear pretty mature... but given that no one needs = to approve a port being added (and there are many people who would = gladly make one), it would definitely be the best first step to get = wider exposure more quickly. >=20 > Even while the decisions on importing are ongoing, you could stick it = in a port today. >=20 > "Ports are just as much a part of the OS as base=E2=80=9D. >=20 Thanks. I=E2=80=99ll make some ports. I also have to make ports for the = optional bindings (which include Perl and Python bindings written in C = for tapping into the library from higher-level languages). =E2=80=94=20 Devin= From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 19:22:16 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF5821E3987 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 19:22:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2d.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rT6b5wKrz4fW7 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 19:22:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2d.google.com with SMTP id t6so18249828qvs.5 for ; Sun, 05 Jan 2020 11:22:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rY92otVIibCZrf8mN2Lg2MkBAKR2JQ47+D8jGxeHkpI=; b=kddF9p77zwwL9nbf74R28mIk6CMcTsh0glNdIjKKbKehvYKw2I8MyzAFm2b9x56IhC 4oJEMsOToE8frtPqQcaflhJrSDmcYD3QKo07KtXGGd9K7M5bGe5Tvyq1/IGE84yCpDd4 LEBoIJOQROj71lmoVIeoyAxHW7OgE2+PUORMChPlZBTjO8YiWfvziaL4/emAAY6qQ6tz tZIVn4ojJVdLoW1A79dVydCWrcLq1wSR5WiA3tlnrV/9KWH0y0eRFtHrV/oxyjwVvMw/ 621TAZTugw8KIwKZZOJYZ3OReNuacJBCJke/fMgvvRKtfqu5joxAasHd4pjJWwZEQhQu VRrQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rY92otVIibCZrf8mN2Lg2MkBAKR2JQ47+D8jGxeHkpI=; b=Ttm5kFV1mi0qRqRklFb4OlKmov2UVlV2OidmlqVDZ6crlHHTYtE5z8QPUVgLA1fE4N cXctcro0okSMmQu0x5QBXbgFTvsTx6E2j5a9Y5WcYiskMSn36OtQKUSRbyC8w1JsneQF sJsQsRbEY7jHwljtyBnDgzlwl8GUgv40MtVDm1jdfhVYg04+vtEiPxf8Hwb/+xoNNO72 CWuT2fULqf2J/rmYcADKjcRsvi7/c2BJPvo5y4MEaWGEXmFBre6AIffJ7FTxBFgyMxm4 hjYhf6FrtRyHGE5cszLgiREfHyjkuGTD0BSMsFexdOyJVYFiVqvqk4dW2j6Ice1r5I2a rt1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXidik9dw//vkJtClbJXiMv5DuCRXBA72cIW0tkVt+Mc+xz739c C7CfZHNFSkfGiSdIx+cMVWXfratBUFYTY9F0QsikNlXt X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyu9Kw4L3skCcTKMKorz+CuVrJZZ8IwArvyw+u9YD4ipfDm3KadEEk11bhjZhzkhIyUyajuCPZUAFxiz/uFZ2k= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:1428:: with SMTP id o8mr78069610qvx.87.1578252129286; Sun, 05 Jan 2020 11:22:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 13:21:57 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: nvme/nvd - trim seems to be one block a time To: Wojciech Puchar Cc: FreeBSD Hackers X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rT6b5wKrz4fW7 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=kddF9p77; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2d) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.72 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-1.72)[ip: (-4.56), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.13), asn: 15169(-1.86), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 19:22:16 -0000 On Sun, Jan 5, 2020, 12:11 PM Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > what am i doing wrong? > > > > > > That's what it does. Upgrade to 12 and you can use the trim collapsing > code in UFS to reduce the number of trims, > so there is a final reason to upgrade. > i will - after using it on my laptop for some time. > > For now i just disabled trim for this 2 UFS partitions. Not a problem > really as it's just 1/8 of SSD space, the rest are virtual machines that > do trim properly or unused space. > NDA is easy to back port to 11, I think. The UFS trim collapsing is a bit harder, but doable. If you hit big issues with the upgrade, there may be other options. but try the upgrade first. Warner > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 19:58:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 345331E45C3 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 19:58:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic302-22.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic302-22.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.68.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rTws04Jsz3CS7 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 19:58:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: WsCHTkcVM1nqt_noZD34Qm0Az_kJ2jN2uc0b8xHX_8ivZzYXIHIWjm5eeCxXuHe HMHWDL083ayBA5FiDvjV26i3gJAYKhLs0dRHKWJoh6nnOkvYXnjYxQ0DnuMlD2YnwpPxRyVvV6Mp rXnnfzCeObz4gEjcAjDVPynJLplu_zdRbjMa_oY.1kNF956e_r2SuSjgmBF2kpDKwX2obqxRlwhh Ch22LZAiNWMFJou6uezNkR9cui0fIXtnR.i4kZrAVc2.Ly5romDqaJN_Ox1DZf409Pz_UpPElO6G h7sSxBLzCPizD_hQv2_vqek8xeZbO28ZiBlHi6WRD6lCLtaaXw1bxL5O_54gqO3m.4sLACPeH7OR SN0uE1e1YCtXXzMDJA3wPdStbvOXFeQ17dcquFT3ioVkRJY2DtioMlqjHx2mPFrRuIW_IWRfrKQ_ fQU4PML_FIMjH.8PA1Hdq0.aUyWljfpMLDzq6skKNBiZ6x_l.46CXSqesn9Sv4FQ82cSWs.9dj3O RFfSHPS4XWdgXKSWEgFJkBPTeI7EJr.aVh2Wzh2yLJDSr06kVSPhsxhPeCM_n2laZURMzdGa4zDW vp1dehPDKSL5ca7y5YAaEDyyepb3Y7TZc2phnQe_dLTffMrlJi2G.fwxQM6HysEbJGGaT4WQxNW. KYJgE3J3ZXZOJjbZzEmj5cecYmdr9d00J9FFTI_NqJ5KgbEOEWiFngQqeWb2YE0KE_Mn1SPRGmP_ pOKHOPg6ihqYX7tUPLvibOpYrGvBfygODJ1_sWHUrGlxCvAjnFpfTzch64aeyf_lz.nDI2J_6dts v.mUjYaw5bvd99syfSQPcLcIJLkWBQzGFfQdOZ_jRvU5QtJ5FSFZzmOQl10jkfNAiKDDNVJEYGYC a7HXDeCzQ9OFsvUigb8qBtcnmPbpO2A4sNtE9pgHoZTwC9zeE6FVlvTy6DgftVEqLw5nqhxNtW4x cyPwTFiQxRi_Z0aeJez1KEMRCe5wjGuXSYZp.qEWcTd3lCgsLgVR8GZaSlhp4EJ0e9JCOvqz2zyK yHRc7qDiDtJStKyY7VbjxozwHDcKrhEQbMjBP7ozZjpWajKYbDbXYTXsgbRq8_MOUioD4JAlZqUW xv4848Ls2JNHkaU8EK1peRdRpPi6X47.RUvO_t.x8F1S5y9GVddDlXXzlnMr6yJgU1EDMGtDaED4 okQis2wQ2PItm7GyUEgnNpUk3SOeClyV2coAfqFpn5Ih3ElqHynrW_GYM00n0DKCb_Iqg1iLI5fc f589YzC9LOhkfNB9XKaUeW2RApzxH9X3xHF_GqCazcVKplvV1Y_vYM2r7YoObzuNWO9KgX3FC67O rDWekyNSRekgOIHv1hz2xi5AUjKtSdhtQE8Y4AWgdfDMCQpqxG965TyW2h873cdq4aKUa18SJ6Gc 2cdFLereGrVh_HYGNoQdmV6p4QXup0z8- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic302.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 19:58:50 +0000 Received: by smtp418.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 6d11935457f00778a5eb62a91e79b963; Sun, 05 Jan 2020 19:58:50 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.40.2.2.4\)) Subject: Re: processes are killed because of out of swap space From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 11:58:48 -0800 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9C6B115C-90CC-449D-A29D-429BD97F37C4@yahoo.com> References: To: Wojciech Puchar X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.40.2.2.4) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rTws04Jsz3CS7 X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.98 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.28)[-0.278,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.20)[-0.205,0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[148.68.137.98.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (5.97), ipnet: 98.137.64.0/21(0.88), asn: 36647(0.70), country: US(-0.05)]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 19:58:54 -0000 On 2020-Jan-5, at 05:08, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >=20 >>> If you are not seeing such swap_pager_getswapspace messages, then >>> it is likely that the mount of swap space still available is not the >>> actual thing driving the kills. >>> Another thing that can lead to kills is paging I/O that is >>> slow. >>=20 >> paging device is nvd so it's fast. And system isn't even paging = heavily. but is doing geom_raid5 rebuild right now+copying lots of files = to this raid (new RAID5 just created). >>=20 >>=20 >> but still - there is A LOT of memory to be reclaimed. inactive is = many gigabytes on my server. >>=20 >>> # Delay when persisstent low free RAM leads to >>> # Out Of Memory killing of processes: >>> vm.pageout_oom_seq=3D120 >> set to 300. A good question is if changing this figure significantly changes how long before the OOM kills significantly. If it does not take significantly different time to start OOM kills, then vm.pageout_oom_seq criteria is not what is leading to the kills. As far as I know, that is the only way to test for if vm.pageout_oom_seq criteria are the criteria leading to the kills vs. it being something else. (Short of source code changes, anyway.) >>> some free RAM.) >>> # >>> # For plunty of swap/paging space (will not >>> # run out), avoid pageout delays leading to >>> # Out Of Memory killing of processes: >>> vm.pfault_oom_attempts=3D-1 >>=20 >> i don't have such sysctl. is it in FreeBSD 12? >> i have 11.3 vm.pfault_oom_attempts is in head (13). I've not checked on any potential the MFC status but forgot to mention that. Sorry for the confusion. > after changes - no effect If going from vm.pageout_oom_seq=3D12 to vm.pageout_oom_seq=3D300 did not change the time frame for the OOM kills starting to happen, then vm.pageout_oom_seq criteria are not what is driving the kills. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of another (non-source-code) ways to discover what crieria are leading to the OOM kills. Changing source code would require first analyzing it --or someone already familiar would need to provide the source code changes. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com ( dsl-only.net went away in early 2018-Mar) From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 20:39:59 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A65F11E526C for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 20:39:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rVrG3BBVz3F8W for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 20:39:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 005Kdqjk034272 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 5 Jan 2020 21:39:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578256793; bh=vpolD4RmUt+B956NT4WifVjpn5n1cY5j+aNCfj+OZgU=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=Tz9pL6wJ0odjf5vTFFy0JJwunpjJEG09OR3yYvooQ4koAvymNogWP9t7W1vRerEV1 PMe8oQMmOjC1MLg6uKyg+0kGyibPhGI81I1fWeu6wo+rViUR2J9JiOh6FxkAdpg9F4 /ImiWLVWSv5tN+K3IvGN+gZzX6/fYOja4RNsOXVA= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 005KdqQW034269; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 21:39:52 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 21:39:52 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Warner Losh cc: Wojciech Puchar , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: nvme/nvd - trim seems to be one block a time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rVrG3BBVz3F8W X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=Tz9pL6wJ; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.41 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-3.11)[ip: (-8.22), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-4.11), asn: 43476(-3.29), country: PL(0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 20:39:59 -0000 > really as it's just 1/8 of SSD space, the rest are virtual machines that > do trim properly or unused space. > > > NDA is easy to back port to 11, I think. The UFS trim collapsing is a bit harder, but doable. If you hit big issues with the > upgrade, there may be other options. but try the upgrade first. i would. but after preparing to be able to get back within short time. Everything (paid) is on this server :) From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 20:41:37 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF7F1E55E0 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 20:41:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rVt83xHzz3FMX for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 20:41:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 005KfWjf034625 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 5 Jan 2020 21:41:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578256892; bh=gz2eL+1UYah+vr3p65Z8cfpHc1WQjjHo7AclKNxwqb0=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=pdzRTuuZ07uPnf5tFXf55nyT6VgYjPffaBAet2P7Y5kiUeJsk9u+ciMzO9Z9ZWyR2 XTwkr+MW3dqGISQjTBRgFMnm4DV2VI5FS9O2W+FQq5EhN4fcoZYHz1pvXzY6gH0ga+ nv0EMapy6CN0M2fLwf/wyukI+UB7QBw1eU7wskUs= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 005KfWXI034622; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 21:41:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 21:41:32 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Millard cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: processes are killed because of out of swap space In-Reply-To: <9C6B115C-90CC-449D-A29D-429BD97F37C4@yahoo.com> Message-ID: References: <9C6B115C-90CC-449D-A29D-429BD97F37C4@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rVt83xHzz3FMX X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=pdzRTuuZ; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.40 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-3.10)[ip: (-8.18), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-4.09), asn: 43476(-3.27), country: PL(0.07)]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 20:41:37 -0000 >>> but still - there is A LOT of memory to be reclaimed. inactive is many gigabytes on my server. >>> >>>> # Delay when persisstent low free RAM leads to >>>> # Out Of Memory killing of processes: >>>> vm.pageout_oom_seq=120 >>> set to 300. > > A good question is if changing this figure significantly > changes how long before the OOM kills significantly. yes. but they are still killed. the problem was geom_raid5. which i found not usable anyway - in case of system crash filesystem is in state of total mess. I just decided to have less space with 2 gmirrors but at least proven, stable and fast. All problems disappeared now. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 21:08:44 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 173741E6D3B for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 21:08:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x134.google.com (mail-il1-x134.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::134]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rWTR6hlVz3HVN; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 21:08:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x134.google.com with SMTP id z12so4577035iln.11; Sun, 05 Jan 2020 13:08:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=BdQsy+nrZT0OyvxF6LA8GV7zbS6qMktxVEErnNqHShY=; b=qUFk04lN+mcTxSwGDAbPdtUZrvWGb9J//41xAeZn2pzqdPw7nnKptOuzT/+1ALnEIr CTkX+zhYcSaU8Lj1dLApay1ObHn1r7SqqA4f1cTytbZGhs1zhqP06TDfZSfGhNz7hqQU 8NCJoPebKcvX5IPUl8OTKTKs+ThTriR2PDF8ZbUtjgJPvFCLnfp/HPOZ1xbq0iCabd9S Dm6VTlYeJY9A4Ul3vXMP94HMdN7AE31F5i3XyEkqgjCeKyPNTQwkR9O5P2lrR3sfSVAG CeB5G502+la4vd03+WLirPm+EzF1A8pPtR+U9xS0A2HxYgxH6/XMhUMXltym7j6uC6g3 wSzQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BdQsy+nrZT0OyvxF6LA8GV7zbS6qMktxVEErnNqHShY=; b=W6dHHPkmOrLniYRt1+4IvLRQW6N0H4Ayof+53YlQJt3juYqLDcumnifXW+hJT3L0at 6ahq1H7xtllwJiHoONXEUjN+t2MGykJEVxeUrZ6vTFcm311tRrtyS7pz1oZP8IfxagqT iTbSRz0Yzm43nKUj5xBfyeHia1ljhB0Grb6Ky0jWvkYksglKqwHmx6mmHpX+TfaequOM 6sfT/o8/c49nzRMpu0xgEG2CFW+zteL0aknSLBbwq7Ih0HXiiVsLZ5KY9XG2rCPlKUwD 1upwisPyZudD4x9EUx4P6GivWsOEQHlRMwLTLFQTZz20mZjuGP66BN6Z9T+RWkMoiH5r ENhg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVZJUryuX2HAzY/uXleQiYvjVzIwE5a2+MxXt9rY+Xg2OJllrA7 fFGyAE7JU/LUo+I9GAbH0xDGpXxBqmnHqVUzf3OOI97R X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqymu1KpwS0IrmrxafKiq/3R4BO8lfQCHGpdXeAndQVzuO/1oBDSYTwgEx0sHt9aI2u/zhBUf+Fg5hu21hCc1XU= X-Received: by 2002:a92:290a:: with SMTP id l10mr83036421ilg.151.1578258522626; Sun, 05 Jan 2020 13:08:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a05:6638:210:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 13:08:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <951A6CD9-5184-4B67-A852-14175ADD77E0@freebsd.org> References: <51AD9B50-9488-45CE-878F-EE97F6914E49@freebsd.org> <201912121119.xBCBJ2Jo017249@fire.js.berklix.net> <20191212130825.GJ5400@e.0x20.net> <72753F50-8810-43C1-BDDD-E541278A146F@cschubert.com> <17EEA2EB-D963-449F-81FE-E18DD62B2BF6@bayofrum.net> <207F328C-0557-4BA5-9C1D-12BFB227F8D4@FreeBSD.org> <951A6CD9-5184-4B67-A852-14175ADD77E0@freebsd.org> From: grarpamp Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 16:08:42 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] BSD-Licensed Combinatorics library/utility To: Devin Teske Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rWTR6hlVz3HVN X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 21:08:44 -0000 Thanks for cmb, it makes some things easier than before. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 21:54:06 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC9DA1E8004 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 21:54:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crees@freebsd.org) Received: from mail56c50.megamailservers.eu (mail168c50.megamailservers.eu [91.136.10.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rXTp1Hknz3KrY; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 21:54:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crees@freebsd.org) X-Authenticated-User: crees@uwclub.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1578261222; bh=vAP5eO6Sti1M3jRI+6NlscljUbY+ZhTPKmkbEVpOwM4=; h=Date:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:To:CC:From:From; b=nAqqg3tPdteZcPXqNiT7lRmX4Kn7ms423iuP/iGjgVpc7RNz9JNGi/P5VHbywlgRm QHql8RmEFudf96yQwfaqu9MiQVbyTOpYBeK1LfMb6OEejqhmOh86N0YfuBAUQG3AXu BMLdHVryzO9d7KLSzvddKvK/IlKvE4M0WNGuBgZQ= Feedback-ID: crees@freebsd.o Received: from pegasus.bayofrum.net (host-92-16-36-61.as13285.net [92.16.36.61]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail56c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 005Lreld028074; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 21:53:41 +0000 Received: from R.bayofrum.net (R.bayofrum.net [192.168.1.72]) by pegasus.bayofrum.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7B45E100B3; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 21:53:36 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 21:53:40 +0000 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <951A6CD9-5184-4B67-A852-14175ADD77E0@freebsd.org> References: <51AD9B50-9488-45CE-878F-EE97F6914E49@freebsd.org> <201912121119.xBCBJ2Jo017249@fire.js.berklix.net> <20191212130825.GJ5400@e.0x20.net> <72753F50-8810-43C1-BDDD-E541278A146F@cschubert.com> <17EEA2EB-D963-449F-81FE-E18DD62B2BF6@bayofrum.net> <207F328C-0557-4BA5-9C1D-12BFB227F8D4@FreeBSD.org> <951A6CD9-5184-4B67-A852-14175ADD77E0@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] BSD-Licensed Combinatorics library/utility To: Devin Teske CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Cy Schubert , Lars Engels , "Julian H. Stacey" From: Chris Rees Message-ID: <9351DC26-D81F-4CE6-81A8-0448881FC793@FreeBSD.org> X-bayofrum-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-bayofrum-MailScanner-ID: 7B45E100B3.A8EBD X-bayofrum-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-bayofrum-MailScanner-From: crees@freebsd.org X-Spam-Status: No X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A0B0213.5E125AE6.0024, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=Hc1qsRM8 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=ExehvxHEHCe6C2o3spqpZQ==:117 a=ExehvxHEHCe6C2o3spqpZQ==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=Jdjhy38mL1oA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=ZB5LerlCAAAA:8 a=GCcQs7E8hUnye_1nObQA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=YKPTzOroS2oaEK2QgPcx:22 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rXTp1Hknz3KrY X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.92 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.94)[-0.944,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.978,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:9115, ipnet:91.136.0.0/17, country:GB] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 21:54:06 -0000 On 5 January 2020 19:14:08 GMT, Devin Teske wrote: > > >> On Jan 5, 2020, at 11:05, Chris Rees wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 5 January 2020 18:57:02 GMT, Devin Teske > wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Jan 5, 2020, at 09:26, Chris Rees wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Devin, >>>>=20 >>>> There are many examples where utilities have moved from ports to >>> base- portsnap being one I can think of. >>>>=20 >>>> I don't think that ports is really a dead zone for software- pkg >>> install -y cmb takes around seven seconds, and I would struggle to >>> imagine that anyone uses a system with no ports installed. >>>>=20 >>>> The argument would obviously change if you wanted to use it in >>> bsdinstall or similar- is that why you're frustrated here? >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> 1. Build option survey for testing different combinations of options >>> when building base >>> 2. Building ports built with different combinations of options when >>> available >>>=20 >>> Both of those situations may preclude having any packages installed. >>=20 >> We use devel/ccache with poudriere all the time- it's not really a >big problem. >>=20 >> Having it in ports has the massive advantages that it becomes >available for all versions of FreeBSD, as well as having immediate >bugfixes and the most up to date version available at all times. >>=20 >> Granted, it does appear pretty mature... but given that no one needs >to approve a port being added (and there are many people who would >gladly make one), it would definitely be the best first step to get >wider exposure more quickly. >>=20 >> Even while the decisions on importing are ongoing, you could stick it >in a port today. >>=20 >> "Ports are just as much a part of the OS as base=E2=80=9D. >>=20 > >Thanks. I=E2=80=99ll make some ports. I also have to make ports for the >optional bindings (which include Perl and Python bindings written in C >for tapping into the library from higher-level languages). Let me know if I can help- I'll happily review ports commits or even write = the ports for you if you're short on time. Chris --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 5 22:07:31 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58FE41E8406 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 22:07:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic309-21.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic309-21.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.65.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rXnG3cpPz3LLR for ; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 22:07:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: UGk1evYVM1kYlqK1xzLN0AiYU.255OkIOKFfmPmCkcr937IT9UP5ibxrsBGBc3K kQvEn1fODP8wF5teaBxI94Tu8abNd.4WJWUEbaT7akYTwVHGk2oi4qWksptq6kOBEuCttVlVcBgb NxK2O0ZFFTPIUr8LliEc2S.KDTIrF8fQQISmi6Vi7y2yhr1dEzqkWnbE9kqb..YQ0lx3hvKr2RrJ 0uvRVWY0baGgkXoyqiTIdGBYEsymGVBKzZkPgKIzdjlBw1Ox8KAGAskfIW3mjcusfnHGvf41NV5y 6TifTjlEbgtuBsqCgQx5rN4mHyu5nMtXpKs3bEGFLDN58om7q2Z0QCk6MYlZ5_qUWsAsrjZ9E9Us DhjHaInaXsILAdfb.W_4Nek1P.2vSVlPADFSSSMhgLVWMLA8fo6EJGirHVR.g93sV1fYU1F7o8br ZRVmfpBAz_Tq5KnuH4EVzNNmdS75zc9NHfS8ziBn3wV53SQkeSth3s1gm6_lbNHz0QjIn3T29Jq6 diqfFHmJG4oMJE25Hily.QpdSSwuMJZghtIHGc8YEPwt8CTDyMV99bg7X4CKD0.idj2JR3WLSFQC 1Dud6C12n5VG9DvHGTLH9iu2tVw349VDLP4K_f.wq_xxceQrr5XckKeuHXMmHSl.Lb7B03bCG3da moitrX1pL6C7aDwuxUGiTnpFWc7ekiS62Vlqgq6yJxWKYnAILbAvagNnHFWOv99Am9OVqU5l1J.7 dUEgHo6PZ97ErwB.9agJ7gu_MvZYsf.40Vjxln89zxz8sM3dvlGaXLTSSvbGl.TuWmv8RHW6bsmh mIlvNvcwhUZHd3z.NFzQkLqAuP74ubWx8xffhhGDShiJPE4qFZn6A.ByMW.t21Mi7z5jO6Z9N2Og N3pBQhIIIFNlNQkxxFFhzwJe9rrUV1kl5MdBrsNr_ao8QinauNUgJSVzUb_BY7ScTO_yf2RaTTxo TutYS02ABAcDG8OmDM4qIwYQg46TEVam.QYgJA.virIU6ADJp2IxaGuecpp3bhiHLQCijhTjoTeB NF3BeHt7Sz2l0wITDCV6g3CdGj9kvugCrOjQB2nWi8b8B_fXsgUC7GCB159Ai.o3LIr83UzL8bI9 PK6qXh6wckgaWB8AsPsplxBKlq6VW0yAxo2OCOObZSPXknmp9Z59UlXcPX39yUPpITzg0ho4Cx_3 9Dk6X0EHomOv3u52qda2VAB1weREgNnJ1ejxEj9jFDv59r.cMumHDeyHLZJi0pj2d6Vovh8_v8Bl JUpmZ4ACfFIMcV1egqgm4YIunyiDrGgkkLUNzj0Hkkj5QrFhT47PifkjLgZqyQXDT_tAogh9IEOa 5dEpjNZ6ayeAFw9zcjPclT.V40_odTdk2MR2wvHVt_683K30uL32nVgf8AqBzKQDiEz1K8eYqfmA 1DfS5zuJup0bJLUBvDLA52vwD3Zyg4lllDw-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 5 Jan 2020 22:07:28 +0000 Received: by smtp424.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID b93c740198594bbcc8280496ac071af1; Sun, 05 Jan 2020 22:07:25 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.40.2.2.4\)) Subject: Re: processes are killed because of out of swap space From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 14:07:24 -0800 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <9C6B115C-90CC-449D-A29D-429BD97F37C4@yahoo.com> To: Wojciech Puchar X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.40.2.2.4) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rXnG3cpPz3LLR X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.92 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.25)[-0.254,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.17)[-0.166,0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[147.65.137.98.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (6.30), ipnet: 98.137.64.0/21(0.88), asn: 36647(0.70), country: US(-0.05)]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2020 22:07:31 -0000 On 2020-Jan-5, at 12:41, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >=20 >>>> but still - there is A LOT of memory to be reclaimed. inactive is = many gigabytes on my server. >>>>=20 >>>>> # Delay when persisstent low free RAM leads to >>>>> # Out Of Memory killing of processes: >>>>> vm.pageout_oom_seq=3D120 >>>> set to 300. >>=20 >> A good question is if changing this figure significantly >> changes how long before the OOM kills significantly. >=20 > yes. but they are still killed. >=20 > the problem was geom_raid5. which i found not usable anyway - in case = of system crash filesystem is in state of total mess. >=20 > I just decided to have less space with 2 gmirrors but at least proven, = stable and fast. >=20 > All problems disappeared now. Glad you isolated a way to avoid the problem in your context. If anyone is to work on geom_raid5, knowledge that: A) it was getting OOM kills that the other technique did not and: B) vm.pageout_oom_seq changes were controlling when likely would be useful background information. I wonder if a bugzilla report of such would be appropriate. (Some detail about the time frames for the alternative vm.pageout_oom_seq figures might be appropriate.) =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com ( dsl-only.net went away in early 2018-Mar) From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Jan 6 10:03:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D85E41FFA90 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 10:03:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47rrgr6KmDz4WV6 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 10:03:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 006A3HCi001052 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 6 Jan 2020 11:03:21 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578305002; bh=ji78ecgUMIEmHeomcSOA7agb5IGypqwTPldss8nDTl0=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=icrucvEm9C9bcwfj/P/uU45hZH8kmFXwzLxEZVxqW8pI1jYOD1nzkdKXFFWRrvbfr y/sUdQ0dSKfCqKGNP6mD7Xcug3ec7mlsfYGVG3Qy8a08hobRwxhOS1EoOwK4WFyurr 4dWlG4RBwiI4cELdJJ/Anx6OMGn/C6EwSD1p6LMg= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 0069WDl8028108; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 10:32:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 10:32:13 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mark Millard cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: processes are killed because of out of swap space In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <9C6B115C-90CC-449D-A29D-429BD97F37C4@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47rrgr6KmDz4WV6 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=icrucvEm; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.38 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-3.08)[ip: (-8.15), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-4.08), asn: 43476(-3.26), country: PL(0.07)]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 10:03:54 -0000 > context. > > If anyone is to work on geom_raid5, knowledge that: > > A) it was getting OOM kills that the other technique did not > and: > B) vm.pageout_oom_seq changes were controlling when > > likely would be useful background information. I > wonder if a bugzilla report of such would be > appropriate. (Some detail about the time frames > for the alternative vm.pageout_oom_seq figures might > be appropriate.) > > === geom_raid5 seems to be more buggy. I was aware that it write buffers data so in case of power loss there would be damage, but i've set 3 second maximum caching time and got huge destruction of underlaying filesystem (fsck displayed hundreds of thousands of errors). From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Jan 6 17:56:10 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE32C1D9AFC for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 17:56:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xaphod@sdf.org) Received: from mx.sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [205.166.94.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mx.sdf.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47s38n61lSz41CV for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 17:56:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xaphod@sdf.org) Received: from mx.sdf.org (ol.freeshell.org [205.166.94.20]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 006Hu7mJ002819 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 17:56:07 GMT Received: from host31-49-0-9.range31-49.btcentralplus.com ([31.49.0.9]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user xaphod) by mx.sdf.org with HTTP; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 17:56:07 -0000 Message-ID: <522f53b578478eceeaf7cdb18cc85947.squirrel@mx.sdf.org> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 17:56:07 -0000 Subject: time/space hardware conflict... suggestions? From: "pXavierGrey" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: xaphod@sdf.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.22 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47s38n61lSz41CV X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of xaphod@sdf.org has no SPF policy when checking 205.166.94.20) smtp.mailfrom=xaphod@sdf.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.16 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[xaphod@sdf.org]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[9.0.49.31.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.30)[ip: (-0.94), ipnet: 205.166.94.0/24(-0.47), asn: 14361(-0.03), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.45)[-0.447,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sdf.org]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[20.94.166.205.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; HAS_X_PRIO_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.10)[-0.100,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14361, ipnet:205.166.94.0/24, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 17:56:10 -0000 so most recently an old box of kipple enabled to re-accumulate at my locale. Telco gear, old utp patch, (!USR v.everything), standard RS232 bits plus null, yet more spaghetti, etc., strange widget thing from that job where... etc., etc. speakers Most irritatingly noticeable however: two matched fujitsus, and a western digital my desktop host/server setup last used october 2002 possibly that same day f.root- was flood pinged... three western digital, various states of BSD disrepair... one is clearly my old desktop host/server circa july 2003, 2003, likely when any on these disks were last used. an awe inspiring 60GB total capacity. IDE. damn... the computer is not in the box... old HX chipset MB... missing... where's my 486DX-100? IDE? ..., ellipsis, etc. IDE? ..., stunned. Grief not even sure what version of FreeBSD... OpenBSD is not unheard of... damn sure it's not micro$oft... aaarg. hard ware thingy? amazonian saviour? thingy? IDE!? 60Gig... hell.o -- pXavierGrey #include [xiv] From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Jan 6 22:10:41 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F53A1F54EF for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 22:10:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47s8pT1VYNz4JNW for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 22:10:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 336331F54EE; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 22:10:41 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 332641F54EC for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 22:10:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47s8pT0gGqz4JNV; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 22:10:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from John-Baldwins-MacBook-Pro-7.local (ralph.baldwin.cx [66.234.199.215]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jhb) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C0941186D5; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 22:10:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Subject: Re: Fixing audio/oss to use callout instead of timeouts To: Chris Rees , hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <33a74368-73a7-fdc0-4655-cfce88d865e6@FreeBSD.org> <39ea5ba8-00d6-c5b2-4719-fba23bb53856@bayofrum.net> <78949DD3-1152-429C-A685-F736B4B80E55@FreeBSD.org> From: John Baldwin Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jhb@FreeBSD.org; keydata= mQGiBETQ+XcRBADMFybiq69u+fJRy/0wzqTNS8jFfWaBTs5/OfcV7wWezVmf9sgwn8TW0Dk0 c9MBl0pz+H01dA2ZSGZ5fXlmFIsee1WEzqeJzpiwd/pejPgSzXB9ijbLHZ2/E0jhGBcVy5Yo /Tw5+U/+laeYKu2xb0XPvM0zMNls1ah5OnP9a6Ql6wCgupaoMySb7DXm2LHD1Z9jTsHcAQMD /1jzh2BoHriy/Q2s4KzzjVp/mQO5DSm2z14BvbQRcXU48oAosHA1u3Wrov6LfPY+0U1tG47X 1BGfnQH+rNAaH0livoSBQ0IPI/8WfIW7ub4qV6HYwWKVqkDkqwcpmGNDbz3gfaDht6nsie5Z pcuCcul4M9CW7Md6zzyvktjnbz61BADGDCopfZC4of0Z3Ka0u8Wik6UJOuqShBt1WcFS8ya1 oB4rc4tXfSHyMF63aPUBMxHR5DXeH+EO2edoSwViDMqWk1jTnYza51rbGY+pebLQOVOxAY7k do5Ordl3wklBPMVEPWoZ61SdbcjhHVwaC5zfiskcxj5wwXd2E9qYlBqRg7QeSm9obiBCYWxk d2luIDxqaGJARnJlZUJTRC5vcmc+iGAEExECACAFAkTQ+awCGwMGCwkIBwMCBBUCCAMEFgID AQIeAQIXgAAKCRBy3lIGd+N/BI6RAJ9S97fvbME+3hxzE3JUyUZ6vTewDACdE1stFuSfqMvM jomvZdYxIYyTUpC5Ag0ERND5ghAIAPwsO0B7BL+bz8sLlLoQktGxXwXQfS5cInvL17Dsgnr3 1AKa94j9EnXQyPEj7u0d+LmEe6CGEGDh1OcGFTMVrof2ZzkSy4+FkZwMKJpTiqeaShMh+Goj XlwIMDxyADYvBIg3eN5YdFKaPQpfgSqhT+7El7w+wSZZD8pPQuLAnie5iz9C8iKy4/cMSOrH YUK/tO+Nhw8Jjlw94Ik0T80iEhI2t+XBVjwdfjbq3HrJ0ehqdBwukyeJRYKmbn298KOFQVHO EVbHA4rF/37jzaMadK43FgJ0SAhPPF5l4l89z5oPu0b/+5e2inA3b8J3iGZxywjM+Csq1tqz hltEc7Q+E08AAwUIAL+15XH8bPbjNJdVyg2CMl10JNW2wWg2Q6qdljeaRqeR6zFus7EZTwtX sNzs5bP8y51PSUDJbeiy2RNCNKWFMndM22TZnk3GNG45nQd4OwYK0RZVrikalmJY5Q6m7Z16 4yrZgIXFdKj2t8F+x613/SJW1lIr9/bDp4U9tw0V1g3l2dFtD3p3ZrQ3hpoDtoK70ioIAjjH aIXIAcm3FGZFXy503DOA0KaTWwvOVdYCFLm3zWuSOmrX/GsEc7ovasOWwjPn878qVjbUKWwx Q4QkF4OhUV9zPtf9tDSAZ3x7QSwoKbCoRCZ/xbyTUPyQ1VvNy/mYrBcYlzHodsaqUDjHuW+I SQQYEQIACQUCRND5ggIbDAAKCRBy3lIGd+N/BCO8AJ9j1dWVQWxw/YdTbEyrRKOY8YZNwwCf afMAg8QvmOWnHx3wl8WslCaXaE8= Message-ID: <75d55d84-e429-5d03-ca5c-348f9796a3cb@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 14:10:39 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <78949DD3-1152-429C-A685-F736B4B80E55@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 22:10:41 -0000 On 1/5/20 2:26 AM, Chris Rees wrote: > Ok, I see I slightly misunderstood where you told me to put the locks. > > https://www.bayofrum.net/cgi-bin/fossil/oss/vdiff?from=ae2a86&to=a10bd48&dc=9999 > > I'm fairly confident this is what you meant and should be acceptable... I've properly done what you said in (3) now. Looks great to me! -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Jan 6 22:31:52 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 760D01F749D for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 22:31:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crees@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47s9Gw2cfmz4Kh9 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 22:31:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crees@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 59C9B1F749B; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 22:31:52 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 598971F7499 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 22:31:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crees@freebsd.org) Received: from mail194c50.megamailservers.eu (mail207c50.megamailservers.eu [91.136.10.217]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47s9Gv6ggmz4Kh8; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 22:31:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crees@freebsd.org) X-Authenticated-User: crees@uwclub.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1578349909; bh=UUGuLOby90ica8XlGGtHShdi4YHsZUVrEF1oKlYfHtk=; h=Date:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:To:From:From; b=cJI1vG5gbW+fw/pZ7mQgredvIbOMyuqsT6jSUXLV0T6aWIySZno09k6AmwwSvTH2/ iHgooDJF3wmh/W2Ii8FQgENvMMULv13HQ1SltvIq/hYrCXSUXGo5MaWBl1Em/UZZWY uPeWMicoYo7L00Ulji8UodKUroos3Jh2Vjv2EZ4w= Feedback-ID: crees@freebsd.o Received: from pegasus.bayofrum.net (host-92-16-36-61.as13285.net [92.16.36.61]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail194c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 006MVltm015130; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 22:31:49 +0000 Received: from R.bayofrum.net (R.bayofrum.net [192.168.1.72]) by pegasus.bayofrum.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 565DB148BB; Mon, 6 Jan 2020 22:31:37 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 22:31:36 +0000 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <75d55d84-e429-5d03-ca5c-348f9796a3cb@FreeBSD.org> References: <33a74368-73a7-fdc0-4655-cfce88d865e6@FreeBSD.org> <39ea5ba8-00d6-c5b2-4719-fba23bb53856@bayofrum.net> <78949DD3-1152-429C-A685-F736B4B80E55@FreeBSD.org> <75d55d84-e429-5d03-ca5c-348f9796a3cb@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Fixing audio/oss to use callout instead of timeouts To: John Baldwin , hackers@FreeBSD.org From: Chris Rees Message-ID: <12142C89-9DE0-4E0F-A77B-DD7599DD4261@FreeBSD.org> X-bayofrum-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-bayofrum-MailScanner-ID: 565DB148BB.AB68F X-bayofrum-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-bayofrum-MailScanner-From: crees@freebsd.org X-Spam-Status: No X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A0B0206.5E13B555.0013, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.3 cv=A9kSwJeG c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=ExehvxHEHCe6C2o3spqpZQ==:117 a=ExehvxHEHCe6C2o3spqpZQ==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=Jdjhy38mL1oA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=ZB5LerlCAAAA:8 a=wW0svjmTV1EgS_fDcN4A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=YKPTzOroS2oaEK2QgPcx:22 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47s9Gv6ggmz4Kh8 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 22:31:52 -0000 On 6 January 2020 22:10:39 GMT, John Baldwin wrote: >On 1/5/20 2:26 AM, Chris Rees wrote: >> Ok, I see I slightly misunderstood where you told me to put the >locks. >>=20 >> >https://www.bayofrum.net/cgi-bin/fossil/oss/vdiff?from=3Dae2a86&to=3Da10bd= 48&dc=3D9999 >>=20 >> I'm fairly confident this is what you meant and should be >acceptable... I've properly done what you said in (3) now. > >Looks great to me! Awesome, thanks very much for the review and suggestions! Chris --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Jan 7 07:08:39 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 146331EAE3D for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 07:08:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpokala@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47sNlB6ngPz3JR3 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 07:08:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpokala@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (c-98-207-126-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [98.207.126.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: rpokala) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 880DA1CC31 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 07:08:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpokala@freebsd.org) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.20.0.191208 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 23:08:33 -0800 Subject: interactive bsdinstall -> scripted bsdinstall From: Ravi Pokala To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Message-ID: <34796D6B-91A0-4EB8-A225-5A7B6D0275AE@freebsd.org> Thread-Topic: interactive bsdinstall -> scripted bsdinstall Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 07:08:39 -0000 Hi folks, I have a vague memory that `bsdinstall' generates a script or log, which ca= n be used to script identical installations. Is that a real thing, or did I imagine that? If that's real, where does tha= t live on the newly installed system? =EF=BB=BF Thanks, Ravi (rpokala@) From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Jan 7 07:36:33 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D47F1EE16F for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 07:36:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kiri@truefc.org) Received: from kx.truefc.org (flets-sg1026.kamome.or.jp [202.216.24.26]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp", Issuer "smtp" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47sPMM5tYkz3Kdc; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 07:36:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kiri@truefc.org) Received: from kx.truefc.org (kx.truefc.org [202.216.24.26]) by kx.truefc.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 0077aMru061650; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 16:36:22 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from kiri@kx.truefc.org) Message-Id: <202001070736.0077aMru061650@kx.truefc.org> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 16:36:22 +0900 From: KIRIYAMA Kazuhiko To: Ravi Pokala Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: interactive bsdinstall -> scripted bsdinstall In-Reply-To: <34796D6B-91A0-4EB8-A225-5A7B6D0275AE@freebsd.org> References: <34796D6B-91A0-4EB8-A225-5A7B6D0275AE@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL/10.8 MULE XEmacs/21.4 (patch 24) (Standard C) (amd64--freebsd) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47sPMM5tYkz3Kdc X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kiri@truefc.org has no SPF policy when checking 202.216.24.26) smtp.mailfrom=kiri@truefc.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.64 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[truefc.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.76)[0.760,0]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.74)[0.740,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:4704, ipnet:202.216.0.0/19, country:JP]; IP_SCORE(0.04)[asn: 4704(0.16), country: JP(0.03)]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 07:36:33 -0000 Hi, Ravi On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 16:08:33 +0900, Ravi Pokala wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I have a vague memory that `bsdinstall' generates a script or log, which can be used to script identical installations. What would you do ? Non interactive installation or debugging installation ? > > Is that a real thing, or did I imagine that? If that's real, where does that live on the newly installed system? > > Thanks, > > Ravi (rpokala@) > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --- Kazuhiko Kiriyama From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Jan 7 20:27:28 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D83C31F1F3D for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 20:27:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpokala@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47skSw5LPVz4ZsX; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 20:27:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpokala@freebsd.org) Received: from [172.17.133.228] (unknown [12.202.168.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: rpokala) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5E7CD2EC0; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 20:27:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpokala@freebsd.org) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.20.0.191208 Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 12:27:24 -0800 Subject: Re: interactive bsdinstall -> scripted bsdinstall From: Ravi Pokala To: KIRIYAMA Kazuhiko , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: interactive bsdinstall -> scripted bsdinstall References: <34796D6B-91A0-4EB8-A225-5A7B6D0275AE@freebsd.org> <202001070736.0077aMru061650@kx.truefc.org> In-Reply-To: <202001070736.0077aMru061650@kx.truefc.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 20:27:28 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: KIRIYAMA Kazuhiko Date: 2020-01-06, Monday at 23:36 To: Ravi Pokala Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: interactive bsdinstall -> scripted bsdinstall Hi, Ravi On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 16:08:33 +0900, Ravi Pokala wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I have a vague memory that `bsdinstall' generates a script or log, which can be used to script identical installations. What would you do ? Non interactive installation or debugging installation ? I mean, I want to perform an interactive installation for a new piece of hardware, once. Then, I want to replicate that installation on additional instances of that hardware. If `bsdinstall' generates an installation script, then I could just use that. Thanks, Ravi (rpokala@) > > Is that a real thing, or did I imagine that? If that's real, where does that live on the newly installed system? > > Thanks, > > Ravi (rpokala@) > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --- Kazuhiko Kiriyama From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Jan 7 20:35:43 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320791F237B for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 20:35:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 6yearold@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-f41.google.com (mail-lf1-f41.google.com [209.85.167.41]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47skfR0S97z4bSC; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 20:35:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 6yearold@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-f41.google.com with SMTP id 9so708031lfq.10; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 12:35:42 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nrtXbfT5GSEJudEevl8oNva4rhgsxygymnDV84GAhx0=; b=REaF2ooaozV7jnrGX3VtFYGQ2g7tHSlQv7PkvZsTufW7vGzQnYdxMTZpMlE5KFNcAC SsxTmkKpl1jUIQiuPchoSRivtPW4qDdLT2yG92ejGIfPEQcoYKCrjhY+w8tRdjhhXNRd OSP6DuKeNgi3mFI22rWnzTYlQpacEh+JDVPETD/Q90S7LhbuKqeei9EhqwDERlLWKvbO Zo13bXtsFyB0b0UJ6S/EWMYar/sSryrl72j/xpwvUMSRx27Qd2efeQD/Ru4RwlpZusQB bN7qZWdMFih1ewgarzfuHgLVkXadrVxhbSRlZZjEg594fXJ1A/DJJ62ixhh2huerIJOW nt5A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXS8Gld884QVda7zZMG84nmRZnzutLsEjnEqm9t1kgkJd0oS+CI x9WZiPYa4QG347Ar6mlsZ2t87EUITZM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwqLSDBmIXOGrC3iKrVP8gZXESINrTR5pHLzP9+v98giD400GMeITNeOrfpRtJnLN7WFkZwzg== X-Received: by 2002:a19:4a:: with SMTP id 71mr793334lfa.50.1578429340998; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 12:35:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-f171.google.com (mail-lj1-f171.google.com. [209.85.208.171]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x23sm358717lff.24.2020.01.07.12.35.40 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 07 Jan 2020 12:35:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-f171.google.com with SMTP id u1so945782ljk.7; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 12:35:40 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8551:: with SMTP id u17mr696630ljj.165.1578429340273; Tue, 07 Jan 2020 12:35:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <34796D6B-91A0-4EB8-A225-5A7B6D0275AE@freebsd.org> <202001070736.0077aMru061650@kx.truefc.org> In-Reply-To: From: Gleb Popov Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 00:35:15 +0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: interactive bsdinstall -> scripted bsdinstall To: Ravi Pokala Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47skfR0S97z4bSC X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 20:35:43 -0000 On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 12:27 AM Ravi Pokala wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: KIRIYAMA Kazuhiko > Date: 2020-01-06, Monday at 23:36 > To: Ravi Pokala > Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" > Subject: Re: interactive bsdinstall -> scripted bsdinstall > > Hi, Ravi > > On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 16:08:33 +0900, > Ravi Pokala wrote: > > > > Hi folks, > > > > I have a vague memory that `bsdinstall' generates a script or log, > which can be used to script identical installations. > > What would you do ? Non interactive installation or > debugging installation ? > > I mean, I want to perform an interactive installation for a new piece of > hardware, once. Then, I want to replicate that installation on additional > instances of that hardware. If `bsdinstall' generates an installation > script, then I could just use that. > > Thanks, > > Ravi (rpokala@) > I wrote the installer config from scratch and here is what I ended up with: DISTRIBUTIONS="base.txz kernel.txz lib32.txz vpn.txz" PARTITIONS="ada0 gpt { 512K freebsd-boot , 2G freebsd-ufs / , 4G freebsd-swap , 8G freebsd-ufs /var , 4G freebsd-ufs /tmp , auto freebsd-ufs /usr }" #!/bin/sh gpart bootcode -b /boot/pmbr -p /boot/gptboot -i 1 ada0 echo 'xxxxxx' | pw usermod -n root -h 0 echo "PermitRootLogin yes" > /etc/ssh/sshd_config echo "PasswordAuthentication yes" >> /etc/ssh/sshd_config echo "ChallengeResponseAuthentication no" >> /etc/ssh/sshd_config echo "PubkeyAuthentication no" >> /etc/ssh/sshd_config echo "Subsystem sftp /usr/libexec/sftp-server" >> /etc/ssh/sshd_config mkdir -p /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/ echo 'FreeBSD: { url: "pkg+http://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/latest" }' > /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf sysrc ifconfig_DEFAULT=SYNCDHCP service netif start sysrc sshd_enable=YES service sshd start env PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/bin pkg install -y openvpn python python3 sysrc openvpn_enable=YES sysrc openvpn_dir=/root/vpn/ sysrc openvpn_configfile=/root/vpn/client.ovpn bsdconfig hostname echo -n "ifconfig " >> /root/vpn/client.ovpn dialog --title "VPN IP" --clear --inputbox "Enter VPN IP address" 10 30 2>> /root/vpn/client.ovpn echo " 255.0.0.0" >> /root/vpn/client.ovpn > > > > Is that a real thing, or did I imagine that? If that's real, where > does that live on the newly installed system? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ravi (rpokala@) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > --- > Kazuhiko Kiriyama > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Jan 7 21:13:03 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDCAC1F2CB1 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 21:13:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47slTV3stbz4dhf for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 21:13:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 007LCxeD021660 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:12:59 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578431579; bh=3dNcb03G+NJgbDk9j+0Pyy/0Xle9s4s4Bj22htgaPWI=; h=Date:From:To:Subject; b=kkOnnrlRamOtz5D4eY46IoFwgK8DyLpO6GMfGL6rGOFrWa+QgigT/+8nT733gghAb reYQO9JiXkvAu6PYMeQtLXrO2SDD31N3a5jmpZ7TizH09QrbQK1iVF2cgOspztoOaC Ij9+BVq1A6qOLy98EECe7z8pEQageBCKwi+IOcjo= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 007LCxaW021657 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:12:59 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:12:59 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: maximum MAXBSIZE Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47slTV3stbz4dhf X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=kkOnnrlR; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.37 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-3.07)[ip: (-8.12), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-4.06), asn: 43476(-3.25), country: PL(0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:13:03 -0000 default MAXBSIZE is 128kB. badly low for todays magnetic disks. i have it set to 2MB on all computers that have magnetic disks. Great improvement with large files. especially when more than one are read/wrote in parallel. And no problems experienced But for optimal performance MAXBSIZE should be transfered in few times longer than average seek time. todays disk do 200-250MB/s so 2MB is transfered below 10ms. 8-16MB seems like good choice. is there any reason not to set it that high? From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Jan 7 21:24:06 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B2DA1F344C for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 21:24:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c17:6c4b::2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47slkF0XVLz4fv5 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 21:24:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2020.home.selasky.org (unknown [62.141.129.235]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B14C42602A1; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:23:56 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE To: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:23:54 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47slkF0XVLz4fv5 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of hps@selasky.org designates 2a01:4f8:c17:6c4b::2 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hps@selasky.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.93 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mail.turbocat.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[selasky.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(-2.63)[ip: (-9.20), ipnet: 2a01:4f8::/29(-2.44), asn: 24940(-1.50), country: DE(-0.02)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/29, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:24:06 -0000 On 2020-01-07 22:12, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > default MAXBSIZE is 128kB. badly low for todays magnetic disks. > > i have it set to 2MB on all computers that have magnetic disks. Great > improvement with large files. especially when more than one are > read/wrote in parallel. And no problems experienced > > But for optimal performance MAXBSIZE should be transfered in few times > longer than average seek time. todays disk do 200-250MB/s so 2MB is > transfered below 10ms. > > 8-16MB seems like good choice. is there any reason not to set it that high? Old disk may not support it, especially USB 1.0/2.0 disks. --HPS From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Jan 7 22:48:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48F031F4E1C for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:48:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from CAN01-TO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-to1can01on0627.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe5d::627]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47snb24XFyz3Ggv for ; Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:47:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=mLc/zJLrCscZlLvsQ56lojJurBjcdLHQB6twIFlrQNrHlC8UTnGcPOEJpv7an+/JgE0YATGl8c/gYnDUaTkqt8RSfXwV8DLCnnjmrZlrfNwkqgxxAyKbAEnWCKnZNrfG5ihePqRE3PP/KIVuL/9gYDOiN/+x343BzU3Zeacn5kHYbUH7ceDn3c1bbf54jxX0+ccThO+IMM8L021WhKsPuRRW2A8F2yq2DeDmeq6fauz7a+CoFNy+cWpb09sk20ywOzFjp0aIN50yp/voGiNS0wELGQmAPqeNGzQiWo+Akjb8EzJ4YQqXmgIkx92OYjK0f8JZ1oBlxAgEqpiXgrLuqQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:47:55 +0000 From: Rick Macklem To: Hans Petter Selasky , Wojciech Puchar , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE Thread-Topic: maximum MAXBSIZE Thread-Index: AQHVxZ9FBsxnSDZEj0us27plJrH9YKfftkgAgAAWuIg= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:47:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 464bd3af-0ffb-4910-1b1d-08d793c3a292 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: YQBPR0101MB1106: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7219; x-forefront-prvs: 027578BB13 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(396003)(346002)(366004)(39860400002)(136003)(376002)(189003)(199004)(33656002)(786003)(186003)(110136005)(26005)(6506007)(2906002)(316002)(86362001)(76116006)(478600001)(91956017)(7696005)(66946007)(66446008)(66556008)(3480700007)(64756008)(9686003)(66476007)(55016002)(8676002)(71200400001)(8936002)(5660300002)(81166006)(81156014)(4744005)(52536014)(7116003); 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dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rmacklem@uoguelph.ca designates 2a01:111:f400:fe5d::627 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rmacklem@uoguelph.ca X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.65 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a01:111:f400::/48]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[uoguelph.ca]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.35)[ipnet: 2a01:111:f000::/36(-3.69), asn: 8075(-2.98), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:2a01:111:f000::/36, country:US]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[i=1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 22:48:00 -0000 Hans Petter Selasky wrote:=0A= >On 2020-01-07 22:12, Wojciech Puchar wrote:=0A= >> default MAXBSIZE is 128kB. badly low for todays magnetic disks.=0A= >>=0A= >> i have it set to 2MB on all computers that have magnetic disks. Great=0A= >> improvement with large files. especially when more than one are=0A= >> read/wrote in parallel. And no problems experienced=0A= >>=0A= >> But for optimal performance MAXBSIZE should be transfered in few times= =0A= >> longer than average seek time. todays disk do 200-250MB/s so 2MB is=0A= >> transfered below 10ms.=0A= >>=0A= >> 8-16MB seems like good choice. is there any reason not to set it that hi= gh?=0A= >=0A= >Old disk may not support it, especially USB 1.0/2.0 disks.=0A= I also thought it was limited to MAXPHYS, but maybe I'm only thinking of th= e NFS=0A= specific case?=0A= =0A= rick=0A= From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Jan 8 02:05:16 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE3741F9270 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 02:05:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kiri@truefc.org) Received: from kx.truefc.org (flets-sg1026.kamome.or.jp [202.216.24.26]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp", Issuer "smtp" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47ssyf5fQtz3wwd; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 02:05:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kiri@truefc.org) Received: from kx.truefc.org (kx.truefc.org [202.216.24.26]) by kx.truefc.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 00825AUD094655; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 11:05:10 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from kiri@kx.truefc.org) Message-Id: <202001080205.00825AUD094655@kx.truefc.org> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 11:05:10 +0900 From: KIRIYAMA Kazuhiko To: Gleb Popov Cc: Ravi Pokala , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: interactive bsdinstall -> scripted bsdinstall In-Reply-To: References: <34796D6B-91A0-4EB8-A225-5A7B6D0275AE@freebsd.org> <202001070736.0077aMru061650@kx.truefc.org> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL/10.8 MULE XEmacs/21.4 (patch 24) (Standard C) (amd64--freebsd) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47ssyf5fQtz3wwd X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kiri@truefc.org has no SPF policy when checking 202.216.24.26) smtp.mailfrom=kiri@truefc.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.54 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[truefc.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.65)[0.647,0]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.76)[0.760,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:4704, ipnet:202.216.0.0/19, country:JP]; IP_SCORE(0.04)[asn: 4704(0.15), country: JP(0.03)]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 02:05:16 -0000 On Wed, 08 Jan 2020 05:35:15 +0900, Gleb Popov wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 12:27 AM Ravi Pokala wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: KIRIYAMA Kazuhiko > > Date: 2020-01-06, Monday at 23:36 > > To: Ravi Pokala > > Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" > > Subject: Re: interactive bsdinstall -> scripted bsdinstall > > > > Hi, Ravi > > > > On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 16:08:33 +0900, > > Ravi Pokala wrote: > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > I have a vague memory that `bsdinstall' generates a script or log, > > which can be used to script identical installations. > > > > What would you do ? Non interactive installation or > > debugging installation ? > > > > I mean, I want to perform an interactive installation for a new piece of > > hardware, once. Then, I want to replicate that installation on additional > > instances of that hardware. If `bsdinstall' generates an installation > > script, then I could just use that. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ravi (rpokala@) > > > > I wrote the installer config from scratch and here is what I ended up with: > > DISTRIBUTIONS="base.txz kernel.txz lib32.txz vpn.txz" > PARTITIONS="ada0 gpt { 512K freebsd-boot , 2G freebsd-ufs / , 4G > freebsd-swap , 8G freebsd-ufs /var , 4G freebsd-ufs /tmp , auto freebsd-ufs > /usr }" > > #!/bin/sh > > gpart bootcode -b /boot/pmbr -p /boot/gptboot -i 1 ada0 I could not understood why above directive should be needed. I always can install without that. BTW when I installed in the case of amd64/aarch64, installed VM by bsdinstall could not boot, so I thought that bootcode would not be copied boot partition correctlly, so I do above command to install bootcode, but there are nothing embed bootstrap codes in /boot/* of amd64/aarch64 image: root@vm:/vm/test # mdconfig -a -t vnode -f FreeBSD-13.0-CURRENT-arm64-aarch64-20191212-r355634-memstick.img md1 root@vm:/vm/test # gpart show md1 => 3 2042648 md1 GPT (997M) 3 66584 1 efi (33M) 66587 1976064 2 freebsd (965M) root@vm:/vm/test # mount /dev/md1s2 /mnt root@vm:/vm/test # ll /mnt/boot total 2988 -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 3547 Dec 12 17:02 beastie.4th -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 97848 Dec 12 17:02 boot1.efi* -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 2119 Dec 12 17:02 brand-fbsd.4th -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 2799 Dec 12 17:02 brand.4th -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 6270 Dec 12 17:02 check-password.4th -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 2104 Dec 12 17:02 color.4th drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Dec 12 17:02 defaults/ -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 4046 Dec 12 17:02 delay.4th drwxr-xr-x 6 root wheel 512 Dec 12 16:25 dtb/ drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Dec 12 16:26 efi/ -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 1584 Dec 12 17:02 efi.4th drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Dec 12 16:26 firmware/ -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 3741 Dec 12 17:02 frames.4th -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 87080 Dec 12 17:02 gptboot.efi* drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 13312 Dec 12 16:26 kernel/ -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 7815 Dec 12 17:02 loader.4th -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 51 Dec 12 17:12 loader.conf -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 677944 Dec 12 17:02 loader.efi* -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 700 Dec 12 17:02 loader.rc -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 584432 Dec 12 17:02 loader_4th.efi* -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 677944 Dec 12 17:02 loader_lua.efi* -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 513656 Dec 12 17:02 loader_simp.efi* -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 3103 Dec 12 17:02 logo-beastie.4th -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 2629 Dec 12 17:02 logo-beastiebw.4th -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 2207 Dec 12 17:02 logo-fbsdbw.4th -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 2624 Dec 12 17:02 logo-orb.4th -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 2347 Dec 12 17:02 logo-orbbw.4th drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Dec 12 17:02 lua/ -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 9253 Dec 12 17:02 menu-commands.4th -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 36008 Dec 12 17:02 menu.4th -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 6319 Dec 12 17:02 menu.rc -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 18590 Dec 12 17:02 menusets.4th drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Dec 12 16:26 modules/ -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 2668 Dec 12 17:02 screen.4th -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 2606 Dec 12 17:02 shortcuts.4th -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 36328 Dec 12 17:02 support.4th drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Dec 12 16:26 uboot/ -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 3058 Dec 12 17:02 version.4th drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Dec 12 16:26 zfs/ root@vm:/vm/test # > > echo 'xxxxxx' | pw usermod -n root -h 0 > > echo "PermitRootLogin yes" > /etc/ssh/sshd_config > echo "PasswordAuthentication yes" >> /etc/ssh/sshd_config > echo "ChallengeResponseAuthentication no" >> /etc/ssh/sshd_config > echo "PubkeyAuthentication no" >> /etc/ssh/sshd_config > echo "Subsystem sftp /usr/libexec/sftp-server" >> /etc/ssh/sshd_config > > mkdir -p /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/ > echo 'FreeBSD: { url: "pkg+http://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/latest" }' > > /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf > > sysrc ifconfig_DEFAULT=SYNCDHCP > service netif start > > sysrc sshd_enable=YES > service sshd start > > env PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/bin pkg install -y openvpn python python3 > > sysrc openvpn_enable=YES > sysrc openvpn_dir=/root/vpn/ > sysrc openvpn_configfile=/root/vpn/client.ovpn > > bsdconfig hostname > > echo -n "ifconfig " >> /root/vpn/client.ovpn > dialog --title "VPN IP" --clear --inputbox "Enter VPN IP address" 10 30 2>> > /root/vpn/client.ovpn > echo " 255.0.0.0" >> /root/vpn/client.ovpn > > > > > > > > Is that a real thing, or did I imagine that? If that's real, where > > does that live on the newly installed system? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Ravi (rpokala@) > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > --- > > Kazuhiko Kiriyama > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > --- Kazuhiko Kiriyama From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Jan 8 08:56:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A57C51FFDBB for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 08:56:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47t34b6d9wz4FkP for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 08:55:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 0088tpCl067750 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 8 Jan 2020 09:55:52 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578473752; bh=nw8/pOoqMhh7p6oiAXqnx3TjSjiBp65zWprUdbBiwIk=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=QgIqDTNPUIJPUXdYRu2qStKfRlcKstpPukQTOOLavLCQx+fIKB0wCOS9nyxNo+Js4 8twrxjuG4oh+pUEbAQhlmdcx/e/oL1i682kdNn21cUFL4MVzeFmMJFXsQqC6dlxn26 Y3+tUn9fU9RjZ5WwmP+J3kW5nGo4HyJzm+2vTG08= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 0088tpWu067742; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 09:55:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 09:55:51 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Hans Petter Selasky cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47t34b6d9wz4FkP X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=QgIqDTNP; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.36 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-3.06)[ip: (-8.09), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-4.04), asn: 43476(-3.24), country: PL(0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 08:56:02 -0000 >> transfered below 10ms. >> >> 8-16MB seems like good choice. is there any reason not to set it that high? > > Old disk may not support it, especially USB 1.0/2.0 disks. It's unlikely i would connect such disks but thanks for answer. > > --HPS > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Jan 8 09:51:42 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 674821E92A8 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 09:51:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gljennjohn@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com (mail-wr1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47t4Js0dSVz4JCr for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 09:51:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gljennjohn@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id z3so2668792wru.3 for ; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 01:51:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5U63WtWcLKsEgvAZTmo1JMS3QD6OkU/hz9utg0Fcnys=; b=qxsIllXxsSFUxbQsgv4KtUVAPYcvelaJyHwDf+6pUTH1PfziGZH68krkjnUQV2hDBH Kxz9oz9gse4co4Qyx8ZgjSlHOfhoSQbKCXYCwbiCN60+3a4Vy/4HQTjzLWgnH+mh5Cka VAQvBxfpP/q3SFYJVXLeJXD0DF2NDoX8tKFxBckhvfyFqlNdSbVq3odbaIUrtKdGzrGd 2dt3Rrjx8i3Swp//55B2FEipiWx810b1E2khw/qAMFRjoOzLVW2h6KNmijij73pKwOev 2I3pf1h9lqUsT62DY/nxMSDRqn6l8Y+ebmv1lba4jy/fszy5WFG2dQDAYCcyPGh48vwc VJgw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5U63WtWcLKsEgvAZTmo1JMS3QD6OkU/hz9utg0Fcnys=; b=JyDHyam2fFxqhw+T4YMW1vGKQ/TPwKJ1M2lrTTL1h/bg0qrL5Jqm4AAOMLNWMIMEfr vB3PKtodPv/fAObFheXlyl9vcyif04TORS+Hjy7ddXEoneucnp1jTqYyYoIpax+dFWgM C7SMTly9MZ/7jnbnjL8WcyiDPYTOAwDN3oYulMuyY15zU7VB6qQosyCvLX3SgIDadXud 8JBdh8td6BsDFwtjbB7bRHV73qsbxiVLdtBVDXxYbwl5Fe1cb71LEkJaOZLer2b7rI3U BwTGxn+/lCoRoVnZKQWlo3rTz1TxiYTVYibv0wi5His1PBF9J4yuCgLCWdBYlnjl27Lx plpQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXZr7d+JnA3jw8+zTHB1omlNnW8vuoptoSDgrABzrFPb0h4ALHh DUUQN6EWGv99N5sCIWAJ6UP/HUOH X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwQP4Vk0mCfLh2760YxJAJDbuI+7LX5UDYpOy+4g3OAoEje0+lrwsI9T7wurEp6XceSPi17BA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4687:: with SMTP id u7mr3516428wrq.176.1578477099377; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 01:51:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernst.home (p5B3BE08E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [91.59.224.142]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q14sm3172237wmj.14.2020.01.08.01.51.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 08 Jan 2020 01:51:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 10:51:36 +0100 From: Gary Jennejohn To: Rick Macklem Cc: Hans Petter Selasky , Wojciech Puchar , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE Message-ID: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: gljennjohn@gmail.com X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.4 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47t4Js0dSVz4JCr X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=qxsIllXx; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of gljennjohn@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::42a as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gljennjohn@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[gljennjohn@gmail.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[142.224.59.91.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FREEMAIL_REPLYTO(0.00)[gmail.com]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[a.2.4.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-9.30), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.61), asn: 15169(-1.85), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 09:51:42 -0000 On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:47:54 +0000 Rick Macklem wrote: > Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > >On 2020-01-07 22:12, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >> default MAXBSIZE is 128kB. badly low for todays magnetic disks. > >> > >> i have it set to 2MB on all computers that have magnetic disks. Great > >> improvement with large files. especially when more than one are > >> read/wrote in parallel. And no problems experienced > >> > >> But for optimal performance MAXBSIZE should be transfered in few times > >> longer than average seek time. todays disk do 200-250MB/s so 2MB is > >> transfered below 10ms. > >> > >> 8-16MB seems like good choice. is there any reason not to set it that high? > > > >Old disk may not support it, especially USB 1.0/2.0 disks. > I also thought it was limited to MAXPHYS, but maybe I'm only thinking of the NFS > specific case? > There's a comment in param.h that it should not exceed MAXPHYS to be on the safe side. How old that comment is I can't say and that may not be the case today. MAXBSIZE is only 64KiB in my param.h. I have to agree with HPS. There are many old bridge-chips still in use and problems with a large MAXBSIZE might occur. It's certainly not uncommon to see capacity limitations - I have a docking station which can't see more than 3TB. -- Gary Jennejohn From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Jan 8 13:53:06 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D9371EF675 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 13:53:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47t9gN5bQyz4WRb for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 13:53:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 008DqvE7062218 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 8 Jan 2020 14:52:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578491578; bh=P9m4TSzhg+WQ+FN+1oTrsnvXWuRPkJymJepe99oJedQ=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=rSVvuiC3an00cn54WRl09CTo/qVNuE5gECxa6JwkaNkw84uGdvtyXFeg2EmhyiiQd 2KjLaR8wkuhlxHibLDwTmliVimpo+M4yYvdSMxLnHWsS467ybkPHOpWiF3EwnPAb4q qjCXXzDyNMBLjpPvJ6/j/FtBUw186ZPXcUrJGjsM= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 008Dqvux062199; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 14:52:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 14:52:57 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Gary Jennejohn cc: Rick Macklem , Hans Petter Selasky , Wojciech Puchar , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE In-Reply-To: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> Message-ID: References: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47t9gN5bQyz4WRb X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=rSVvuiC3; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.35 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-3.05)[ip: (-8.06), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-4.03), asn: 43476(-3.22), country: PL(0.07)]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 13:53:06 -0000 sorry i made a mistake - i change MAXPHYS not MAXBSIZE. 16MB works for now without problems On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:47:54 +0000 > Rick Macklem wrote: > >> Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >>> On 2020-01-07 22:12, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>>> default MAXBSIZE is 128kB. badly low for todays magnetic disks. >>>> >>>> i have it set to 2MB on all computers that have magnetic disks. Great >>>> improvement with large files. especially when more than one are >>>> read/wrote in parallel. And no problems experienced >>>> >>>> But for optimal performance MAXBSIZE should be transfered in few times >>>> longer than average seek time. todays disk do 200-250MB/s so 2MB is >>>> transfered below 10ms. >>>> >>>> 8-16MB seems like good choice. is there any reason not to set it that high? >>> >>> Old disk may not support it, especially USB 1.0/2.0 disks. >> I also thought it was limited to MAXPHYS, but maybe I'm only thinking of the NFS >> specific case? >> > > There's a comment in param.h that it should not exceed MAXPHYS to be > on the safe side. How old that comment is I can't say and that may > not be the case today. > > MAXBSIZE is only 64KiB in my param.h. > > I have to agree with HPS. There are many old bridge-chips still in > use and problems with a large MAXBSIZE might occur. It's certainly > not uncommon to see capacity limitations - I have a docking station > which can't see more than 3TB. > > -- > Gary Jennejohn > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Jan 8 14:18:19 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F5571F012B for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 14:18:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47tBDV2S3nz4Xn0 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 14:18:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 008EIAdU008176 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 8 Jan 2020 16:18:13 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua 008EIAdU008176 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 008EIAIv008175; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 16:18:10 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 16:18:10 +0200 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Wojciech Puchar Cc: Gary Jennejohn , Hans Petter Selasky , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Rick Macklem Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE Message-ID: <20200108141810.GX23031@kib.kiev.ua> References: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.3 (2019-12-06) on tom.home X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47tBDV2S3nz4Xn0 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=softfail (mx1.freebsd.org: 2001:470:d5e7:1::1 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of kostikbel@gmail.com) smtp.mailfrom=kostikbel@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[gmail.com : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all:c]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-3.05), ipnet: 2001:470::/32(-4.67), asn: 6939(-3.57), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:2001:470::/32, country:US]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 14:18:19 -0000 On Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 02:52:57PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > sorry i made a mistake - i change MAXPHYS not MAXBSIZE. > > 16MB works for now without problems MAXPHYS 16MB means that sizeof(struct buf) is around 32K (16K on 32bit). > > On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > > > On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:47:54 +0000 > > Rick Macklem wrote: > > > > > Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > > > On 2020-01-07 22:12, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > > default MAXBSIZE is 128kB. badly low for todays magnetic disks. > > > > > > > > > > i have it set to 2MB on all computers that have magnetic disks. Great > > > > > improvement with large files. especially when more than one are > > > > > read/wrote in parallel. And no problems experienced > > > > > > > > > > But for optimal performance MAXBSIZE should be transfered in few times > > > > > longer than average seek time. todays disk do 200-250MB/s so 2MB is > > > > > transfered below 10ms. > > > > > > > > > > 8-16MB seems like good choice. is there any reason not to set it that high? > > > > > > > > Old disk may not support it, especially USB 1.0/2.0 disks. > > > I also thought it was limited to MAXPHYS, but maybe I'm only thinking of the NFS > > > specific case? > > > > > > > There's a comment in param.h that it should not exceed MAXPHYS to be > > on the safe side. How old that comment is I can't say and that may > > not be the case today. > > > > MAXBSIZE is only 64KiB in my param.h. > > > > I have to agree with HPS. There are many old bridge-chips still in > > use and problems with a large MAXBSIZE might occur. It's certainly > > not uncommon to see capacity limitations - I have a docking station > > which can't see more than 3TB. > > > > -- > > Gary Jennejohn > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Jan 8 18:25:06 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B0931F70A2 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 18:25:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cse.cem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi1-f175.google.com (mail-oi1-f175.google.com [209.85.167.175]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47tHjF2hkvz3xMR for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 18:25:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cse.cem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi1-f175.google.com with SMTP id a67so3510844oib.6 for ; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 10:25:05 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lixWCIBu/EQ+s729O9petBLQKW3/c/ELpPVCN8oBK4M=; b=A0/vqD2R4/diOFHmkr3CmsdNdO/kuwrbjOfehiO9WeQouFW5Z2tXr/TSt/AW+iDIKU WBqWZ/Opdl33SfrAl3QRMCguSZygjeI82DhZ84voLQxtC957CjpSknNcllwChJrfE1l+ YkKIMv2GyzeaFdZI8INvsoHXpNOIgvfrVUPfOfltYC63+i+QTl0t++J7kJSSVbaZQkKK oMeMdHJyKvTQUsfgZgNArmSjfxYgMJVscIJO7cK1M/BCjKpWSmwjKStJ8MMzCo0v4JHf aIMndbeoPqyEQ05QHUT4EaQWXzS0UMSUY4MqSIw1CDPSAwtz8uLJd7Jxy9IL38CZ8ofJ X5EQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV/VyNNx0UfW4bm3x9gemcg3Im+1gRd46Wby1/CCxr7GQLVMKdv rMLHtfH8IqYq7RHkpvaC92qxLKuZ X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx9g/KRgDv8trnvnb/DKiiBdS0FzSzJsdri1MNCr+yP1wr+qqIoq40tVMv+bFQEIP4iZIuTbQ== X-Received: by 2002:aca:1c09:: with SMTP id c9mr4381183oic.85.1578507903866; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 10:25:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi1-f175.google.com (mail-oi1-f175.google.com. [209.85.167.175]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m3sm1364397otf.13.2020.01.08.10.25.02 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 08 Jan 2020 10:25:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi1-f175.google.com with SMTP id k4so3532311oik.2 for ; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 10:25:02 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:aca:4b06:: with SMTP id y6mr4236185oia.81.1578507901986; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 10:25:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> <20200108141810.GX23031@kib.kiev.ua> In-Reply-To: <20200108141810.GX23031@kib.kiev.ua> Reply-To: cem@freebsd.org From: Conrad Meyer Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 10:24:51 -0800 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE To: Konstantin Belousov Cc: Hans Petter Selasky , Rick Macklem , Wojciech Puchar , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47tHjF2hkvz3xMR X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of csecem@gmail.com designates 209.85.167.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=csecem@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.06 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[cem@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[cem@freebsd.org,csecem@gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[cem@freebsd.org,csecem@gmail.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[175.167.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-1.06)[ip: (-0.29), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.10), asn: 15169(-1.85), country: US(-0.05)]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[175.167.85.209.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 18:25:06 -0000 Bufs are dynamically allocated from uma now, and perhaps a middle ground BSIZE is worth considering? Would 1MB and 2kB bufs (1kB 32-bit) be awful? Cheers, Conrad On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 06:18 Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 02:52:57PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > sorry i made a mistake - i change MAXPHYS not MAXBSIZE. > > > > 16MB works for now without problems > MAXPHYS 16MB means that sizeof(struct buf) is around 32K (16K on 32bit). > > > > > On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:47:54 +0000 > > > Rick Macklem wrote: > > > > > > > Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > > > > On 2020-01-07 22:12, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > > > default MAXBSIZE is 128kB. badly low for todays magnetic disks. > > > > > > > > > > > > i have it set to 2MB on all computers that have magnetic disks. > Great > > > > > > improvement with large files. especially when more than one are > > > > > > read/wrote in parallel. And no problems experienced > > > > > > > > > > > > But for optimal performance MAXBSIZE should be transfered in few > times > > > > > > longer than average seek time. todays disk do 200-250MB/s so 2MB > is > > > > > > transfered below 10ms. > > > > > > > > > > > > 8-16MB seems like good choice. is there any reason not to set it > that high? > > > > > > > > > > Old disk may not support it, especially USB 1.0/2.0 disks. > > > > I also thought it was limited to MAXPHYS, but maybe I'm only > thinking of the NFS > > > > specific case? > > > > > > > > > > There's a comment in param.h that it should not exceed MAXPHYS to be > > > on the safe side. How old that comment is I can't say and that may > > > not be the case today. > > > > > > MAXBSIZE is only 64KiB in my param.h. > > > > > > I have to agree with HPS. There are many old bridge-chips still in > > > use and problems with a large MAXBSIZE might occur. It's certainly > > > not uncommon to see capacity limitations - I have a docking station > > > which can't see more than 3TB. > > > > > > -- > > > Gary Jennejohn > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Jan 8 18:55:19 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD42C1F7D89 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 18:55:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47tJN73L77z419r; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 18:55:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 008ItAcT074142 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 8 Jan 2020 20:55:14 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua 008ItAcT074142 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 008ItAbv074141; Wed, 8 Jan 2020 20:55:10 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 20:55:10 +0200 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Conrad Meyer Cc: Hans Petter Selasky , Rick Macklem , Wojciech Puchar , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE Message-ID: <20200108185510.GY23031@kib.kiev.ua> References: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> <20200108141810.GX23031@kib.kiev.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.3 (2019-12-06) on tom.home X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47tJN73L77z419r X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 18:55:19 -0000 On Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 10:24:51AM -0800, Conrad Meyer wrote: > Bufs are dynamically allocated from uma now, and perhaps a middle ground > BSIZE is worth considering? Would 1MB and 2kB bufs (1kB 32-bit) be awful? Buffers are not dynamically allocated. Uma wraps the static array of preallocated buffers still, it provides e.g. per-cpu caches and faster free. But system still reserves KVA and buf headers array (this part is backed by real memory). 2K per header is too much IMO. And it is almost always wasted, since we never create that large buffers for file system blocks. Except when we try to cluster io requests, and in this case perhaps we should use special buffers from special allocator. > > Cheers, > Conrad > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 06:18 Konstantin Belousov > wrote: > > > On Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 02:52:57PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > sorry i made a mistake - i change MAXPHYS not MAXBSIZE. > > > > > > 16MB works for now without problems > > MAXPHYS 16MB means that sizeof(struct buf) is around 32K (16K on 32bit). > > > > > > > > On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > > > > > > > On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:47:54 +0000 > > > > Rick Macklem wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > > > > > On 2020-01-07 22:12, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > > > > default MAXBSIZE is 128kB. badly low for todays magnetic disks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have it set to 2MB on all computers that have magnetic disks. > > Great > > > > > > > improvement with large files. especially when more than one are > > > > > > > read/wrote in parallel. And no problems experienced > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But for optimal performance MAXBSIZE should be transfered in few > > times > > > > > > > longer than average seek time. todays disk do 200-250MB/s so 2MB > > is > > > > > > > transfered below 10ms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8-16MB seems like good choice. is there any reason not to set it > > that high? > > > > > > > > > > > > Old disk may not support it, especially USB 1.0/2.0 disks. > > > > > I also thought it was limited to MAXPHYS, but maybe I'm only > > thinking of the NFS > > > > > specific case? > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a comment in param.h that it should not exceed MAXPHYS to be > > > > on the safe side. How old that comment is I can't say and that may > > > > not be the case today. > > > > > > > > MAXBSIZE is only 64KiB in my param.h. > > > > > > > > I have to agree with HPS. There are many old bridge-chips still in > > > > use and problems with a large MAXBSIZE might occur. It's certainly > > > > not uncommon to see capacity limitations - I have a docking station > > > > which can't see more than 3TB. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Gary Jennejohn > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 09:58:05 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55FED22F967 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 09:58:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47thPn0X9tz3Nlf; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 09:58:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 0099vw07098572 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 9 Jan 2020 10:57:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578563879; bh=5mlkBSP8wWQIIKXpV2AoVhcrtdGOz72iXZ4h7mGIRDk=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=MIb7lzfLTPjzBxGPt1ffkh8qKTzNPBDqpCn6xHpQ7t8R1SmuwI8Lb99T51fCgzprT FE34aCPpG+GmCIxRcb8rbGJClQj8R/7ANdUccMO3wVSnAfkdKX7anbV4LLS/HjnuZa lnAZJL1PNPjSUnS/Sb1QVT3xqRS/Idp0Nf2vJjP8= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 0099vw0H098565; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 10:57:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 10:57:58 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Conrad Meyer cc: Konstantin Belousov , Hans Petter Selasky , Rick Macklem , Wojciech Puchar , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> <20200108141810.GX23031@kib.kiev.ua> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47thPn0X9tz3Nlf X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.995,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 09:58:05 -0000 2MB MAXPHYS was what i have set for over 3 years without problems. On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Conrad Meyer wrote: > Bufs are dynamically allocated from uma now, and perhaps a middle ground BSIZE is worth considering? Would 1MB and 2kB bufs (1kB > 32-bit) be awful? > > Cheers, > Conrad  > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 06:18 Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 02:52:57PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > sorry i made a mistake - i change MAXPHYS not MAXBSIZE. > > > > 16MB works for now without problems > MAXPHYS 16MB means that sizeof(struct buf) is around 32K (16K on 32bit). > > > > > On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:47:54 +0000 > > > Rick Macklem wrote: > > > > > > > Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > > > > On 2020-01-07 22:12, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > > > default MAXBSIZE is 128kB. badly low for todays magnetic disks. > > > > > > > > > > > > i have it set to 2MB on all computers that have magnetic disks. Great > > > > > > improvement with large files. especially when more than one are > > > > > > read/wrote in parallel. And no problems experienced > > > > > > > > > > > > But for optimal performance MAXBSIZE should be transfered in few times > > > > > > longer than average seek time. todays disk do 200-250MB/s so 2MB is > > > > > > transfered below 10ms. > > > > > > > > > > > > 8-16MB seems like good choice. is there any reason not to set it that high? > > > > > > > > > > Old disk may not support it, especially USB 1.0/2.0 disks. > > > > I also thought it was limited to MAXPHYS, but maybe I'm only thinking of the NFS > > > > specific case? > > > > > > > > > > There's a comment in param.h that it should not exceed MAXPHYS to be > > > on the safe side.  How old that comment is I can't say and that may > > > not be the case today. > > > > > > MAXBSIZE is only 64KiB in my param.h. > > > > > > I have to agree with HPS.  There are many old bridge-chips still in > > > use and problems with a large MAXBSIZE might occur.  It's certainly > > > not uncommon to see capacity limitations - I have a docking station > > > which can't see more than 3TB. > > > > > > -- > > > Gary Jennejohn > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 14:14:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42C941EF6DF for ; 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IP_SCORE(-2.65)[ip: (-9.21), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.12), asn: 15169(-1.85), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 14:14:36 -0000 Netflix runs our entire network at MAXPHYS=8MB since we're doing huge reads off HDD. Warner On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 2:58 AM Wojciech Puchar wrote: > 2MB MAXPHYS was what i have set for over 3 years without problems. > > On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Conrad Meyer wrote: > > > Bufs are dynamically allocated from uma now, and perhaps a middle ground > BSIZE is worth considering? Would 1MB and 2kB bufs (1kB > > 32-bit) be awful? > > > > Cheers, > > Conrad > > > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 06:18 Konstantin Belousov > wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 02:52:57PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > sorry i made a mistake - i change MAXPHYS not MAXBSIZE. > > > > > > 16MB works for now without problems > > MAXPHYS 16MB means that sizeof(struct buf) is around 32K (16K on > 32bit). > > > > > > > > On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > > > > > > > On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:47:54 +0000 > > > > Rick Macklem wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > > > > > On 2020-01-07 22:12, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > > > > default MAXBSIZE is 128kB. badly low for todays magnetic > disks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have it set to 2MB on all computers that have magnetic > disks. Great > > > > > > > improvement with large files. especially when more than > one are > > > > > > > read/wrote in parallel. And no problems experienced > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But for optimal performance MAXBSIZE should be > transfered in few times > > > > > > > longer than average seek time. todays disk do > 200-250MB/s so 2MB is > > > > > > > transfered below 10ms. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8-16MB seems like good choice. is there any reason not > to set it that high? > > > > > > > > > > > > Old disk may not support it, especially USB 1.0/2.0 disks. > > > > > I also thought it was limited to MAXPHYS, but maybe I'm only > thinking of the NFS > > > > > specific case? > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a comment in param.h that it should not exceed MAXPHYS > to be > > > > on the safe side. How old that comment is I can't say and > that may > > > > not be the case today. > > > > > > > > MAXBSIZE is only 64KiB in my param.h. > > > > > > > > I have to agree with HPS. There are many old bridge-chips > still in > > > > use and problems with a large MAXBSIZE might occur. It's > certainly > > > > not uncommon to see capacity limitations - I have a docking > station > > > > which can't see more than 3TB. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Gary Jennejohn > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 14:21:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 876391EFB12 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 14:21:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47tpFj2T78z4Byx for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 14:21:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 009ELPjE011261 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:21:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578579686; bh=LTGsn+vClnvordGRbo+urfNOwDwu0JSz/jnVn1OoBHU=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=Yedg4vsUQDJ6HRL6wKEIweSvsrSY5aGUDeELSUFYLgG7QCMReQLh9YPJg4CHI3SwS UVny5T6c2QquVtuTtRh8EeP6VBhQpMqxUVoIVxRAvqCUmz2I3PSJgng5O+QYqYlyaM CqYAl1q7NEsTnDOHfGqvBODqN5dv810p4FWxdA0c= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 009ELPtX011258; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:21:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:21:25 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Warner Losh cc: Wojciech Puchar , Conrad Meyer , Konstantin Belousov , Hans Petter Selasky , Rick Macklem , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> <20200108141810.GX23031@kib.kiev.ua> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47tpFj2T78z4Byx X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=Yedg4vsU; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.33 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; CTYPE_MIXED_BOGUS(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; IP_SCORE(-3.04)[ip: (-8.03), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-4.01), asn: 43476(-3.21), country: PL(0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 14:21:30 -0000 why FreeBSD default is so completely wrong for modern hardware? i think 4MB is OK for HDDs, more may be optimal for RAID5 arrays. On Thu, 9 Jan 2020, Warner Losh wrote: > Netflix runs our entire network at MAXPHYS=8MB since we're doing huge reads off HDD. > Warner > > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 2:58 AM Wojciech Puchar wrote: > 2MB MAXPHYS was what i have set for over 3 years without problems. > > On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Conrad Meyer wrote: > > > Bufs are dynamically allocated from uma now, and perhaps a middle ground BSIZE is worth considering? Would 1MB and 2kB > bufs (1kB > > 32-bit) be awful? > > > > Cheers, > > Conrad  > > > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 06:18 Konstantin Belousov wrote: > >       On Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 02:52:57PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >       > sorry i made a mistake - i change MAXPHYS not MAXBSIZE. > >       > > >       > 16MB works for now without problems > >       MAXPHYS 16MB means that sizeof(struct buf) is around 32K (16K on 32bit). > > > >       > > >       > On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > >       > > >       > > On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:47:54 +0000 > >       > > Rick Macklem wrote: > >       > > > >       > > > Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > >       > > > > On 2020-01-07 22:12, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >       > > > > > default MAXBSIZE is 128kB. badly low for todays magnetic disks. > >       > > > > > > >       > > > > > i have it set to 2MB on all computers that have magnetic disks. Great > >       > > > > > improvement with large files. especially when more than one are > >       > > > > > read/wrote in parallel. And no problems experienced > >       > > > > > > >       > > > > > But for optimal performance MAXBSIZE should be transfered in few times > >       > > > > > longer than average seek time. todays disk do 200-250MB/s so 2MB is > >       > > > > > transfered below 10ms. > >       > > > > > > >       > > > > > 8-16MB seems like good choice. is there any reason not to set it that high? > >       > > > > > >       > > > > Old disk may not support it, especially USB 1.0/2.0 disks. > >       > > > I also thought it was limited to MAXPHYS, but maybe I'm only thinking of the NFS > >       > > > specific case? > >       > > > > >       > > > >       > > There's a comment in param.h that it should not exceed MAXPHYS to be > >       > > on the safe side.  How old that comment is I can't say and that may > >       > > not be the case today. > >       > > > >       > > MAXBSIZE is only 64KiB in my param.h. > >       > > > >       > > I have to agree with HPS.  There are many old bridge-chips still in > >       > > use and problems with a large MAXBSIZE might occur.  It's certainly > >       > > not uncommon to see capacity limitations - I have a docking station > >       > > which can't see more than 3TB. > >       > > > >       > > -- > >       > > Gary Jennejohn > >       > > > >       > > > >       > _______________________________________________ > >       > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > >       > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > >       > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > >       _______________________________________________ > >       freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > >       https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > >       To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 15:45:25 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE8B71F1957 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:45:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gljennjohn@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x431.google.com (mail-wr1-x431.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::431]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47tr6Y2njBz4JXG; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:45:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gljennjohn@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x431.google.com with SMTP id j42so7829979wrj.12; Thu, 09 Jan 2020 07:45:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mfO3QDVmZmHLUvb1DXfLFUXZrWM2ViERfKfEzC411ks=; b=YE7G2p9KLvLRGjZImDcA4icpgnDS7Qt27Cg9AOpEi6xHQaVexsM7hiVgCRhmPBJ6VG EhBR/siizp/N4ymOW6yO+acXsaFqQzxMaxjnEwu9sGTwIcGNS3lRYC0o3/alSvZy3FO1 dHW+BKZkpqmOfOhrqCTQTnAD672xJcVSmv3foXJGYLWapOE/70ec6PYXd4VSL5IQJ1Lg 9Mn67w05NP3kZq5epMPa2fFL07Z87BD24bZe9IljzojGawc6rBlq4YWwikkvR9lxIfdz Ei5diYNVkKxsoJDhFLXlZ9yJYf+mjBEcd2DyrKdpTnb7CrW79ipRjoyAPdo/X+n2Q90K ubYQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mfO3QDVmZmHLUvb1DXfLFUXZrWM2ViERfKfEzC411ks=; b=DsjjcBp1NRpCjaIPqbudDhqjKvxCj5QNjv2eNpcKMQcoMQC8tDtQOHN24yTtfzqRol 2tklHWupnoD3GUHHtWJF5xrM7RQdG9wT5hyayQP/WKZLXZhpMHkgatVk+ZAqqNsdOmOV Vll+Du9uimb0ggcNUsTtuflFL6YAsaEw5xdDfZWQnrIH1rLyeeOLx7VqnkRNZfycPnkn QbXRpSEYspGXvMvP4ehwvQFkqS+MEiGnHW6uGkurHc6GU37O0n52/AD2m5U5rWgkSlxV tXE06G08IOwHgtDTPIa5oVqRg2wTzdwNow3T5+OyD7J3yerWTAoDv65D3NyhTRi9mv5j 227g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXumje2WX8riSHBhie8wplGLyaTwIrCQ47Cgvy/dimKnIlgPsIH 5rIxrHfk7L+x+fQ419RU1gs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzj/JRyUVaKhY6yB1xIgpP7W1PXL71jkLjuHA+936xuoBNX/7ELk+eOUzD7TymGdgnxFcJwgA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:53d1:: with SMTP id a17mr11188284wrw.327.1578584723753; Thu, 09 Jan 2020 07:45:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernst.home (pD9E2375C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [217.226.55.92]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u22sm8553961wru.30.2020.01.09.07.45.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 09 Jan 2020 07:45:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 16:45:19 +0100 From: Gary Jennejohn To: Wojciech Puchar Cc: Warner Losh , Hans Petter Selasky , Rick Macklem , Conrad Meyer , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Konstantin Belousov Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE Message-ID: <20200109164519.33fc7478@ernst.home> In-Reply-To: References: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> <20200108141810.GX23031@kib.kiev.ua> Reply-To: gljennjohn@gmail.com X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.4 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47tr6Y2njBz4JXG X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=YE7G2p9K; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of gljennjohn@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::431 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gljennjohn@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[gljennjohn@gmail.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[92.55.226.217.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FREEMAIL_REPLYTO(0.00)[gmail.com]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.3.4.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-9.05), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.61), asn: 15169(-1.85), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 15:45:25 -0000 On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:21:25 +0100 (CET) Wojciech Puchar wrote: > why FreeBSD default is so completely wrong for modern hardware? > > i think 4MB is OK for HDDs, more may be optimal for RAID5 arrays. > POLA (principle of least amazement). I certainly don't need a MAXPHYS set to 4MB on my desktop machine. Not everyone using FreeBSD is running servers with large amounts of memory and disk storage. It's a trivial change if it's beneficial in a certain use scenario. The decision should be left up to the user. > > On Thu, 9 Jan 2020, Warner Losh wrote: > > > Netflix runs our entire network at MAXPHYS=8MB since we're doing huge reads off HDD. > > Warner > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 2:58 AM Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > 2MB MAXPHYS was what i have set for over 3 years without problems. > > > > On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Conrad Meyer wrote: > > > > > Bufs are dynamically allocated from uma now, and perhaps a middle ground BSIZE is worth considering? Would 1MB and 2kB > > bufs (1kB > > > 32-bit) be awful? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Conrad__ > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 06:18 Konstantin Belousov wrote: > > >__ __ __ __On Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 02:52:57PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > >__ __ __ __> sorry i made a mistake - i change MAXPHYS not MAXBSIZE. > > >__ __ __ __> > > >__ __ __ __> 16MB works for now without problems > > >__ __ __ __MAXPHYS 16MB means that sizeof(struct buf) is around 32K (16K on 32bit). > > > > > >__ __ __ __> > > >__ __ __ __> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > > >__ __ __ __> > > >__ __ __ __> > On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:47:54 +0000 > > >__ __ __ __> > Rick Macklem wrote: > > >__ __ __ __> > > > >__ __ __ __> > > Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > >__ __ __ __> > > > On 2020-01-07 22:12, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > default MAXBSIZE is 128kB. badly low for todays magnetic disks. > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > i have it set to 2MB on all computers that have magnetic disks. Great > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > improvement with large files. especially when more than one are > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > read/wrote in parallel. And no problems experienced > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > But for optimal performance MAXBSIZE should be transfered in few times > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > longer than average seek time. todays disk do 200-250MB/s so 2MB is > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > transfered below 10ms. > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > 8-16MB seems like good choice. is there any reason not to set it that high? > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > Old disk may not support it, especially USB 1.0/2.0 disks. > > >__ __ __ __> > > I also thought it was limited to MAXPHYS, but maybe I'm only thinking of the NFS > > >__ __ __ __> > > specific case? > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > >__ __ __ __> > There's a comment in param.h that it should not exceed MAXPHYS to be > > >__ __ __ __> > on the safe side.__ How old that comment is I can't say and that may > > >__ __ __ __> > not be the case today. > > >__ __ __ __> > > > >__ __ __ __> > MAXBSIZE is only 64KiB in my param.h. > > >__ __ __ __> > > > >__ __ __ __> > I have to agree with HPS.__ There are many old bridge-chips still in > > >__ __ __ __> > use and problems with a large MAXBSIZE might occur.__ It's certainly > > >__ __ __ __> > not uncommon to see capacity limitations - I have a docking station > > >__ __ __ __> > which can't see more than 3TB. > > >__ __ __ __> > > > >__ __ __ __> > -- > > >__ __ __ __> > Gary Jennejohn > > >__ __ __ __> > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > >__ __ __ __> _______________________________________________ > > >__ __ __ __> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > >__ __ __ __> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > >__ __ __ __> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > >__ __ __ _________________________________________________ > > >__ __ __ __freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > >__ __ __ __https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > >__ __ __ __To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Gary Jennejohn From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 16:15:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBBA01F289F for ; 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dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=SIwtCccs; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::836) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.64 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[6.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.64)[ip: (-9.16), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.12), asn: 15169(-1.85), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 16:15:00 -0000 On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 8:45 AM Gary Jennejohn wrote: > On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:21:25 +0100 (CET) > Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > why FreeBSD default is so completely wrong for modern hardware? > > > > i think 4MB is OK for HDDs, more may be optimal for RAID5 arrays. > > > > POLA (principle of least amazement). I certainly don't need a MAXPHYS set > to 4MB on my desktop machine. Not everyone using FreeBSD is running > servers with large amounts of memory and disk storage. > > It's a trivial change if it's beneficial in a certain use scenario. The > decision should be left up to the user. > And if you change MAXPHYS, you'll also want to bump the insanely small runningbuf limits. And there may be a few other parameters I've not reported that we set that are critical too :) Warner > > > > On Thu, 9 Jan 2020, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > Netflix runs our entire network at MAXPHYS=8MB since we're doing huge > reads off HDD. > > > Warner > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 2:58 AM Wojciech Puchar > wrote: > > > 2MB MAXPHYS was what i have set for over 3 years without > problems. > > > > > > On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Conrad Meyer wrote: > > > > > > > Bufs are dynamically allocated from uma now, and perhaps a > middle ground BSIZE is worth considering? Would 1MB and 2kB > > > bufs (1kB > > > > 32-bit) be awful? > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Conrad__ > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 06:18 Konstantin Belousov < > kostikbel@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >__ __ __ __On Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 02:52:57PM +0100, Wojciech > Puchar wrote: > > > >__ __ __ __> sorry i made a mistake - i change MAXPHYS not > MAXBSIZE. > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > >__ __ __ __> 16MB works for now without problems > > > >__ __ __ __MAXPHYS 16MB means that sizeof(struct buf) is around > 32K (16K on 32bit). > > > > > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > >__ __ __ __> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > >__ __ __ __> > On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:47:54 +0000 > > > >__ __ __ __> > Rick Macklem wrote: > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > >__ __ __ __> > > Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > On 2020-01-07 22:12, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > default MAXBSIZE is 128kB. badly low for > todays magnetic disks. > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > i have it set to 2MB on all computers that > have magnetic disks. Great > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > improvement with large files. especially > when more than one are > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > read/wrote in parallel. And no problems > experienced > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > But for optimal performance MAXBSIZE > should be transfered in few times > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > longer than average seek time. todays disk > do 200-250MB/s so 2MB is > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > transfered below 10ms. > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > 8-16MB seems like good choice. is there > any reason not to set it that high? > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > Old disk may not support it, especially USB > 1.0/2.0 disks. > > > >__ __ __ __> > > I also thought it was limited to MAXPHYS, but > maybe I'm only thinking of the NFS > > > >__ __ __ __> > > specific case? > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > >__ __ __ __> > There's a comment in param.h that it should not > exceed MAXPHYS to be > > > >__ __ __ __> > on the safe side.__ How old that comment is I > can't say and that may > > > >__ __ __ __> > not be the case today. > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > >__ __ __ __> > MAXBSIZE is only 64KiB in my param.h. > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > >__ __ __ __> > I have to agree with HPS.__ There are many old > bridge-chips still in > > > >__ __ __ __> > use and problems with a large MAXBSIZE might > occur.__ It's certainly > > > >__ __ __ __> > not uncommon to see capacity limitations - I > have a docking station > > > >__ __ __ __> > which can't see more than 3TB. > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > >__ __ __ __> > -- > > > >__ __ __ __> > Gary Jennejohn > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > >__ __ __ __> > > > > >__ __ __ __> _______________________________________________ > > > >__ __ __ __> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > > >__ __ __ __> > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > > >__ __ __ __> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > >__ __ __ _________________________________________________ > > > >__ __ __ __freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > > >__ __ __ __ > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > > >__ __ __ __To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > -- > Gary Jennejohn > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 19:42:35 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65E7B1F72CA for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 19:42:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47txNB0l1bz4bnL; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 19:42:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 009JgOdN018425 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 9 Jan 2020 20:42:24 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578598945; bh=EcjF3BzWmRLS6giVT+CuiT2hmcrpzgwv/7WhIMibuU8=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=oqGqqkocdTHs3m+rfbRe0vqNOOoBDvWZh5BKMPgwvr2gFPZb8pWdHhwgUTcpyJXjA DlhXj86Ajw5IkfWfNDMQpvfCtX8eKYyAtDsu9dLg2Azkxt1maK3OqO9kTBoLTqpxAQ 1DQ2qX7hBdy2OnOCrhuc3gxtrJdWjz2EdySkgGHQ= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 009JgNnp018420; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 20:42:24 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 20:42:23 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Gary Jennejohn cc: Wojciech Puchar , Warner Losh , Hans Petter Selasky , Rick Macklem , Conrad Meyer , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Konstantin Belousov Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE In-Reply-To: <20200109164519.33fc7478@ernst.home> Message-ID: References: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> <20200108141810.GX23031@kib.kiev.ua> <20200109164519.33fc7478@ernst.home> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47txNB0l1bz4bnL X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=oqGqqkoc; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.31 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; IP_SCORE(-3.01)[ip: (-7.96), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-3.98), asn: 43476(-3.18), country: PL(0.07)]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 19:42:35 -0000 >> > > POLA (principle of least amazement). I certainly don't need a MAXPHYS set > to 4MB on my desktop machine. Not everyone using FreeBSD is running i do if i have HDD - because i want good performance when say copying big file. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 19:42:45 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D56BA1F72FC for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 19:42:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47txNP29snz4bry; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 19:42:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 009JgdAm018485 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 9 Jan 2020 20:42:39 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578598960; bh=OMTrpB5EB4d18vYZubkrfRlGjTGFKRbaxKOHwgX2YRw=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=QbIvOdG6ybvQvGWn1AgzjdSfTWalG8WutdoJRtQY0nmMGWbhzt1e5ETlxU/qCVBFr lp8fAeRwbIq9f82V/Fr159+7zxPfUjh8E9zZu8imX1dJp/UPe6whJm8YDROFUkJAoc B7m+koy4fofaOeUWT4o4yK4kBlhmTlu/VlZ49Sa0= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 009JgdG3018482; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 20:42:39 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 20:42:39 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Warner Losh cc: Gary Jennejohn , Wojciech Puchar , Hans Petter Selasky , Rick Macklem , Conrad Meyer , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Konstantin Belousov Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> <20200108141810.GX23031@kib.kiev.ua> <20200109164519.33fc7478@ernst.home> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47txNP29snz4bry X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=QbIvOdG6; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.28 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.985,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; CTYPE_MIXED_BOGUS(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-3.00)[ip: (-7.93), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-3.97), asn: 43476(-3.17), country: PL(0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 19:42:45 -0000 > > POLA (principle of least amazement).  I certainly don't need a MAXPHYS set > to 4MB on my desktop machine.  Not everyone using FreeBSD is running > servers with large amounts of memory and disk storage. > > It's a trivial change if it's beneficial in a certain use scenario.  The > decision should be left up to the user. > > > And if you change MAXPHYS, you'll also want to bump the insanely small runningbuf limits. And there may be a few other parameters of course i did > I've not reported that we set that are critical too :) > > Warner >   > > > > On Thu, 9 Jan 2020, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > Netflix runs our entire network at MAXPHYS=8MB since we're doing huge reads off HDD. > > > Warner > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 2:58 AM Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > >       2MB MAXPHYS was what i have set for over 3 years without problems. > > > > > >       On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Conrad Meyer wrote: > > >  > > >       > Bufs are dynamically allocated from uma now, and perhaps a middle ground BSIZE is worth considering? Would > 1MB and 2kB  > > >       bufs (1kB  > > >       > 32-bit) be awful? > > >       > > > >       > Cheers, > > >       > Conrad__ > > >       > > > >       > On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 06:18 Konstantin Belousov wrote: > > >       >__ __ __ __On Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 02:52:57PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > >       >__ __ __ __> sorry i made a mistake - i change MAXPHYS not MAXBSIZE. > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > >       >__ __ __ __> 16MB works for now without problems > > >       >__ __ __ __MAXPHYS 16MB means that sizeof(struct buf) is around 32K (16K on 32bit). > > >       > > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > >       >__ __ __ __> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > >       >__ __ __ __> > On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 22:47:54 +0000 > > >       >__ __ __ __> > Rick Macklem wrote: > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > On 2020-01-07 22:12, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > > default MAXBSIZE is 128kB. badly low for todays magnetic disks. > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > > > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > > i have it set to 2MB on all computers that have magnetic disks. Great > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > > improvement with large files. especially when more than one are > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > > read/wrote in parallel. And no problems experienced > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > > > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > > But for optimal performance MAXBSIZE should be transfered in few times > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > > longer than average seek time. todays disk do 200-250MB/s so 2MB is > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > > transfered below 10ms. > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > > > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > > 8-16MB seems like good choice. is there any reason not to set it that high? > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > Old disk may not support it, especially USB 1.0/2.0 disks. > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > I also thought it was limited to MAXPHYS, but maybe I'm only thinking of the NFS > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > specific case? > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > >       >__ __ __ __> > There's a comment in param.h that it should not exceed MAXPHYS to be > > >       >__ __ __ __> > on the safe side.__ How old that comment is I can't say and that may > > >       >__ __ __ __> > not be the case today. > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > >       >__ __ __ __> > MAXBSIZE is only 64KiB in my param.h. > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > >       >__ __ __ __> > I have to agree with HPS.__ There are many old bridge-chips still in > > >       >__ __ __ __> > use and problems with a large MAXBSIZE might occur.__ It's certainly > > >       >__ __ __ __> > not uncommon to see capacity limitations - I have a docking station > > >       >__ __ __ __> > which can't see more than 3TB. > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > >       >__ __ __ __> > -- > > >       >__ __ __ __> > Gary Jennejohn > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > >       >__ __ __ __> > > > >       >__ __ __ __> _______________________________________________ > > >       >__ __ __ __> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > >       >__ __ __ __> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > >       >__ __ __ __> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > >       >__ __ __ _________________________________________________ > > >       >__ __ __ __freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > >       >__ __ __ __https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > >       >__ __ __ __To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > >       > > > >       > > > >       >  > > >       _______________________________________________ > > >       freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > >       https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > >       To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > >  > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > -- > Gary Jennejohn > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 20:28:24 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 003F21F8173 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 20:28:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (hz.grosbein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c2c:26d8::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47tyP25S5Dz4f72 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 20:28:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eg.sd.rdtc.ru [IPv6:2a03:3100:c:13:0:0:0:5]) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 009KS9Wk010554 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 9 Jan 2020 20:28:12 GMT (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: wojtek@puchar.net Received: from [10.58.0.4] ([10.58.0.4]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 009KS7v1097115 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 03:28:07 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE To: Wojciech Puchar , Gary Jennejohn References: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> <20200108141810.GX23031@kib.kiev.ua> <20200109164519.33fc7478@ernst.home> Cc: Hans Petter Selasky , Rick Macklem , Conrad Meyer , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Konstantin Belousov From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 03:28:02 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,LOCAL_FROM, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Report: * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record * -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on hz.grosbein.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47tyP25S5Dz4f72 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=permerror (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of eugen@grosbein.net uses mechanism not recognized by this client) smtp.mailfrom=eugen@grosbein.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.84 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[grosbein.net]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_PERMFAIL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; IP_SCORE(-1.74)[ip: (-4.75), ipnet: 2a01:4f8::/29(-2.45), asn: 24940(-1.50), country: DE(-0.02)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/29, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 20:28:24 -0000 10.01.2020 2:42, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> POLA (principle of least amazement). I certainly don't need a MAXPHYS set >> to 4MB on my desktop machine. Not everyone using FreeBSD is running > > i do if i have HDD - because i want good performance when say copying big file. I can tell you one real-life story about one of my FreeBSD servers. One of its task is collecting thousands of integer packet counters from many switches over SNMP to store them in thousands RRD files and draw graphs on-demand later. Due to high parallelism of custom scripts collecting values, it successfully collects data from 2500+ switches within one minute obtaining tens of counters per SNMP request storing data to temporary plain files before moving data to RRDs. There is another independent process scanning temporary files and using rrdtool to insert data to RRDs. With untuned 8.4-STABLE, that second process took less than one minute to process 2500+ RRD files. After 8.4 went EoL the server was upgraded to FreeBSD 9 and the second process suddenly became 6 times slower and UFS went much less responsible here. It took not much time for me to discover that default value for sysctl vfs.read_max changed from 8 blocks for FreeeBSD 8 to 64 block for FreeBSD 9, so read-ahead of UFS boosted reading database files eight times consuming I/O bandwidth and cache. The problem is, opening an RRD file for update and reading its header does NOT mean reading so many blocks would be of any use, so it just wasted time and memory. I lowered vfs.read_max back to old default 8 blocks. The server has UFS block size equal to 16K, and 8*16K=128K=MAXPHYS, so performance boosted 6 times and returned to previous normal state. The server then was updated several times more but still keeps vfs.read_max=8 in its /etc/sysctl.conf and runs just fine. Not each yoghurt is equally good for everyone. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 20:55:46 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 496751F8BD4 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 20:55:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vtr.rulingia.com (vtr.rulingia.com [IPv6:2001:19f0:5801:ebe:5400:1ff:fe53:30fd]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vtr.rulingia.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47tyt70SY3z3Bnm for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 20:50:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from server.rulingia.com (ppp239-208.static.internode.on.net [59.167.239.208]) by vtr.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 009Knnen042925 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 07:49:55 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 009KnhDl063734 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 07:49:44 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 009KnhCT063733; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 07:49:43 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 07:49:43 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Gary Jennejohn Cc: Wojciech Puchar , Hans Petter Selasky , Rick Macklem , Conrad Meyer , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Konstantin Belousov Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE Message-ID: <20200109204943.GC25924@server.rulingia.com> References: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> <20200108141810.GX23031@kib.kiev.ua> <20200109164519.33fc7478@ernst.home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="W/nzBZO5zC0uMSeA" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200109164519.33fc7478@ernst.home> X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.2 (2019-09-21) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47tyt70SY3z3Bnm X-Spamd-Bar: ------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of peter@rulingia.com designates 2001:19f0:5801:ebe:5400:1ff:fe53:30fd as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=peter@rulingia.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.61 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[rulingia.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:2001:19f0:5800::/38, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-3.21)[ip: (-9.68), ipnet: 2001:19f0:5800::/38(-4.84), asn: 20473(-1.47), country: US(-0.05)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 20:55:46 -0000 --W/nzBZO5zC0uMSeA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2020-Jan-09 16:45:19 +0100, Gary Jennejohn wrote: >On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:21:25 +0100 (CET) >Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> why FreeBSD default is so completely wrong for modern hardware? >>=20 >> i think 4MB is OK for HDDs, more may be optimal for RAID5 arrays. > >POLA (principle of least amazement). I certainly don't need a MAXPHYS set >to 4MB on my desktop machine. What are the downsides of running with MAXPHYS set to 4MB (or similar)? > Not everyone using FreeBSD is running >servers with large amounts of memory and disk storage. Actually, I disagree with this statement. MAXPHYS on x86 was doubled from 64KB to 128KB in r32724 - 22 years ago. A small, embedded system today has more RAM than a decent server had disk space then. I think we are well overdue for an examination of many of the kernel parameters to take into account that a "typical" user machine today has 3 orders of magnitude more RAM, disk and performance than it had when most of the kernel parameters were last tweaked. >It's a trivial change if it's beneficial in a certain use scenario. The >decision should be left up to the user. Actually, I suspect it would benefit most typical use cases - even an average desktop machine does for more I/O than when the values were last set. Also, adjusting it isn't quite that easy - it's a compile-time constant so a user has to build their own kernel and the Project is trying to get away from requiring users to build from source. And, before someone starts, the "it will hurt embedded systems" argument isn't a good reason for keeping the status quo for two main reasons: 1) As I mentioned above, an embedded system today is larger than a decent server was in 1998. 2) People running FreeBSD on embedded systems are going to want to build =66rom source to cater for their systems' idiosyncracies and needs, so they can easily tune kernel parameters as needed. --=20 Peter Jeremy --W/nzBZO5zC0uMSeA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEE7rKYbDBnHnTmXCJ+FqWXoOSiCzQFAl4XkeJfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEVF QjI5ODZDMzA2NzFFNzRFNjVDMjI3RTE2QTU5N0EwRTRBMjBCMzQACgkQFqWXoOSi CzQ2Mw/+M5p4TwHbNfZ3B2jQnmuzeqfLMRAWl4AY7t9QPuVr0o2nxSTFW4apdipM 9U0sEX5YTbCp9iqU7mDzv69zHQDG/TURsKKkZtLV91c6+6a6u0b8OsN7+3UYCd3b 8fhWsKVw+sFJ926RsZu3GDQzypk5ozv+2i/E/yZm1gjF7LjGDIviRopVDLvOKpBp wB2Yk5olxqTKWR2/Xjrgrmiws1tsfLGpgD/k7PxlfuwNBJUDgtbstEGfabRXBHeh H+IS3jq/f2JM3/cG+8eol2wUazK5PD5mOlgI5HW5p0iEH3m+jHEiadGr0FaeCJ/Z n1gkjGCYJdixbwYt+ceNTWPFW3d8Tjtml7+GNj76cwovcQWvFvlwxiWwQUqczDg/ NuDYPfqZj3kifdxku2VQLPj7W2BOmXrwaMnSQwSPHwNLBKvOmGJ50ERWke+9GWTU uwmsgVo3CEymYURPBm6HTWDldXaG3FJNm1MwUxMoLQQAZmHScYC7dHMV6RA2tM8U r+cvF4Ml3UfZaW63NLausNfrPKJz4PyTvCXlX+ySwWNVN0KuieSb/gn12N6ZuiOH POub0FkzrdSd3iiMqQiAEvTwwUUPz8RL+xprEBJLSSrNy2hSGpHT1nxRzP5c25yt fYFjYzE86s41RFjFcvNEUAb+hoFXS3j24HAm+OVGfL0gxn0I6TU= =rvTE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --W/nzBZO5zC0uMSeA-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 21:14:28 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EFD91F937D for ; 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FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 21:14:28 -0000 On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 1:55 PM Peter Jeremy wrote: > On 2020-Jan-09 16:45:19 +0100, Gary Jennejohn > wrote: > >On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:21:25 +0100 (CET) > >Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >> why FreeBSD default is so completely wrong for modern hardware? > >> > >> i think 4MB is OK for HDDs, more may be optimal for RAID5 arrays. > > > >POLA (principle of least amazement). I certainly don't need a MAXPHYS set > >to 4MB on my desktop machine. > > What are the downsides of running with MAXPHYS set to 4MB (or similar)? > There's two issues. One, it makes every buf and bio 32 times larger. Second, there's a lot of drivers that say their max I/O size is MAXPHYS when really they mean max(128k,MAXPHYS). Newer hardware is better about it, but not perfect (I had to fix a NVMe bug because the format of SG lists we used is limited to 4k which means our NVMe driver can't do more than 1MB I/Os). DFLTPHYS also needs to be raised. There are (or were) some drivers in the tree that bogusly used DFLTPHYS as the maximum I/O, though I think I caught all of those. And once you bump MAXPHYS, there's other limits you'll run into with fast SSDs/NVMe drives (like runningbufs limiting write throughput). > > Not everyone using FreeBSD is running > >servers with large amounts of memory and disk storage. > > Actually, I disagree with this statement. MAXPHYS on x86 was doubled from > 64KB to 128KB in r32724 - 22 years ago. A small, embedded system today has > more RAM than a decent server had disk space then. I think we are well > overdue for an examination of many of the kernel parameters to take into > account that a "typical" user machine today has 3 orders of magnitude more > RAM, disk and performance than it had when most of the kernel parameters > were last tweaked. > Likely 1MB is the right place to have MAXPHYS for most people these days.... But there's a number of other parameters to tweak, and likely a few bugs to hunt... > >It's a trivial change if it's beneficial in a certain use scenario. The > >decision should be left up to the user. > > Actually, I suspect it would benefit most typical use cases - even an > average desktop machine does for more I/O than when the values were last > set. Also, adjusting it isn't quite that easy - it's a compile-time > constant so a user has to build their own kernel and the Project is trying > to get away from requiring users to build from source. > > And, before someone starts, the "it will hurt embedded systems" argument > isn't a good reason for keeping the status quo for two main reasons: > > 1) As I mentioned above, an embedded system today is larger than a decent > server was in 1998. > > 2) People running FreeBSD on embedded systems are going to want to build > from source to cater for their systems' idiosyncracies and needs, so they > can easily tune kernel parameters as needed. > I think we should look at changing these parameters, but some care is needed because there's often interrelated values that aren't obvious to someone new to this tuning. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 22:37:43 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D5831FBAA6 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 22:37:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from CAN01-QB1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-qb1can01on0623.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe5c::623]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47v1GF4lJdz3L9t; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 22:37:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=S3UFLsUu2he4Rccxy+D1SzE14wWzY2h2EEi8cT79y0Gg743C3QMShke7+EXyT3b2/CII/VYhwu5n376WaGmSmMk1THGwJnfvoRcuIG+zksd6K2FtA+DH4sp4AU2bfjJDz69VgPVYONa5p4yOCDVHw09e0GGwfGTgaDWj/L16ZkjNhc2DUeDiV3MbibK3uwm35QHLWYDILiAhfsvAThcVdJpgzXGsZLpUe/NYqGqXx3BgoK2eWOW1obtoWJXjBEpAn9zNYqBYd99Ld43EYTaksD1zoqvQa/t8y9bn80EASHdn0epGslt/y1UDpbFQNDIe0uZXWKh3/w1SPzG/timpBQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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Thu, 9 Jan 2020 22:37:39 +0000 From: Rick Macklem To: Warner Losh , Peter Jeremy CC: Gary Jennejohn , Hans Petter Selasky , Conrad Meyer , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Wojciech Puchar , Konstantin Belousov Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE Thread-Topic: maximum MAXBSIZE Thread-Index: AQHVxZ9FBsxnSDZEj0us27plJrH9YKfftkgAgAAWuIiAAk5fk4AAR5AAgAAB+ICAABdxgIAAVQyAgAAG1ICAABWsiQ== Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 22:37:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> <20200108141810.GX23031@kib.kiev.ua> <20200109164519.33fc7478@ernst.home> <20200109204943.GC25924@server.rulingia.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: efeeb2bf-b15b-4dfd-393c-08d79554884e x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: YQBPR0101MB1714: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 02778BF158 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(136003)(346002)(396003)(366004)(39860400002)(376002)(189003)(199004)(76116006)(66556008)(66946007)(86362001)(64756008)(66446008)(186003)(66476007)(91956017)(9686003)(316002)(786003)(81166006)(7116003)(26005)(8676002)(54906003)(71200400001)(110136005)(81156014)(52536014)(55016002)(4326008)(478600001)(3480700007)(8936002)(7696005)(2906002)(5660300002)(33656002)(6506007); 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dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rmacklem@uoguelph.ca designates 2a01:111:f400:fe5c::623 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rmacklem@uoguelph.ca X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.65 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a01:111:f400::/48]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[uoguelph.ca]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; IP_SCORE(-1.35)[ipnet: 2a01:111:f000::/36(-3.72), asn: 8075(-2.99), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:2a01:111:f000::/36, country:US]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[i=1]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 22:37:43 -0000 Warner Losh wrote:=0A= >On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 1:55 PM Peter Jeremy > wrote:=0A= >On 2020-Jan-09 16:45:19 +0100, Gary Jennejohn > wrote:=0A= >>On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:21:25 +0100 (CET)=0A= >>Wojciech Puchar > wrote:=0A= >>> why FreeBSD default is so completely wrong for modern hardware?=0A= >>>=0A= >>> i think 4MB is OK for HDDs, more may be optimal for RAID5 arrays.=0A= >>=0A= >>POLA (principle of least amazement). I certainly don't need a MAXPHYS se= t=0A= >>to 4MB on my desktop machine.=0A= >=0A= >What are the downsides of running with MAXPHYS set to 4MB (or similar)?=0A= >=0A= >There's two issues. One, it makes every buf and bio 32 times larger.=0A= >Second, there's a lot of drivers that say their max I/O size is MAXPHYS wh= en really they mean >max(128k,MAXPHYS). Newer hardware is better about it, = but not perfect (I had to fix a NVMe >bug because the format of SG lists we= used is limited to 4k which means our NVMe driver >can't do more than 1MB = I/Os). DFLTPHYS also needs to be raised. There are (or were) some >drivers = in the tree that bogusly used DFLTPHYS as the maximum I/O, though I think I= caught >all of those. And once you bump MAXPHYS, there's other limits you'= ll run into with fast >SSDs/NVMe drives (like runningbufs limiting write th= roughput).=0A= >=0A= >> Not everyone using FreeBSD is running=0A= >>servers with large amounts of memory and disk storage.=0A= >=0A= >Actually, I disagree with this statement. MAXPHYS on x86 was doubled from= =0A= >64KB to 128KB in r32724 - 22 years ago. A small, embedded system today ha= s=0A= >more RAM than a decent server had disk space then. I think we are well=0A= >overdue for an examination of many of the kernel parameters to take into= =0A= >account that a "typical" user machine today has 3 orders of magnitude more= =0A= >RAM, disk and performance than it had when most of the kernel parameters= =0A= >were last tweaked.=0A= >=0A= >Likely 1MB is the right place to have MAXPHYS for most people these days..= .. But there's a >number of other parameters to tweak, and likely a few bug= s to hunt...=0A= >=0A= >>It's a trivial change if it's beneficial in a certain use scenario. The= =0A= >>decision should be left up to the user.=0A= >=0A= >Actually, I suspect it would benefit most typical use cases - even an=0A= >average desktop machine does for more I/O than when the values were last= =0A= >set. Also, adjusting it isn't quite that easy - it's a compile-time=0A= >constant so a user has to build their own kernel and the Project is trying= =0A= >to get away from requiring users to build from source.=0A= >=0A= >And, before someone starts, the "it will hurt embedded systems" argument= =0A= >isn't a good reason for keeping the status quo for two main reasons:=0A= One thought here is to move them to machine/param.h, so they can be=0A= set to different defaults for different arches.=0A= =0A= rick=0A= [stuff snipped]=0A= =0A= Warner=0A= From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Jan 9 23:29:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A855D1FC9B0 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 23:29:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vtr.rulingia.com (vtr.rulingia.com [IPv6:2001:19f0:5801:ebe:5400:1ff:fe53:30fd]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vtr.rulingia.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47v2PR4GJHz3NcK for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 23:28:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from server.rulingia.com (ppp239-208.static.internode.on.net [59.167.239.208]) by vtr.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 009NSmAF043861 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:28:54 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 009NSgML069172 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:28:42 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 009NSgoU069171; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:28:42 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from peter) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:28:42 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Rick Macklem Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE Message-ID: <20200109232842.GD25924@server.rulingia.com> References: <20200108141810.GX23031@kib.kiev.ua> <20200109164519.33fc7478@ernst.home> <20200109204943.GC25924@server.rulingia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="MfFXiAuoTsnnDAfZ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.2 (2019-09-21) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47v2PR4GJHz3NcK X-Spamd-Bar: ------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of peter@rulingia.com designates 2001:19f0:5801:ebe:5400:1ff:fe53:30fd as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=peter@rulingia.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.62 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[rulingia.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:2001:19f0:5800::/38, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-3.22)[ip: (-9.70), ipnet: 2001:19f0:5800::/38(-4.85), asn: 20473(-1.48), country: US(-0.05)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 23:29:00 -0000 --MfFXiAuoTsnnDAfZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [Pruning the Cc list...] On 2020-Jan-09 22:37:39 +0000, Rick Macklem wrote: >One thought here is to move them to machine/param.h, so they can be >set to different defaults for different arches. r96606 moved everything from the MD to MI param.h files with the comment that it could be overridden on a per-arch basis if needed. I don't think that has been done for any archs. --=20 Peter Jeremy --MfFXiAuoTsnnDAfZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEE7rKYbDBnHnTmXCJ+FqWXoOSiCzQFAl4XtyRfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEVF QjI5ODZDMzA2NzFFNzRFNjVDMjI3RTE2QTU5N0EwRTRBMjBCMzQACgkQFqWXoOSi CzTqQg/9EvV1scnJFoIBPqymppBdvPz3/Ly1Io9xasErqyvkgpbwlWbysZlyhphC n/FZ4R3cIlBiVdao7TU1RTj3/BBpuTzptw1xO2vnG1hqbAZzNXEhhHkk3jhdm4nC M5mKw8DCBYUlQ4blGm2wt7eyxQ797s41xJWh90T3/QrIMBdHIaqoXkerx6nvm9hI wKSjwMpJPw1hyJ3i8AfJkRafjnhuy7RbYcPeFL76aiyvcIJ+TOZof5WeIZidWFMO zcRxgAQtpjrznRC8ekxMmmCmQRLGLJP1sBb1T42UJND3Ehgo/KEJhErq2CsSYzrP XBD6oQhd7aL3MUyAYg7kqRDvc0IQ9QTPKIBrYcvZYZRRQFiflXYTrF0bnEOaLJU7 afeNQJLlBD0jOcNrXcDtyHjw0EvqqQkgSigvalRuJ52i+D6H1lrflZAc6T86amQO 86lMltpQLCpOOWSY/c+sP+xnloyukpk+4v4rlwMaWHA5Dymf5D5r6vJaYYPDdlTw xEthZZBS5njFVR4tF+FfFc1SlDBQmhOh2X/T9lJ8PDJASFSEv5mIdgoxK+RXJnIH SEX+n+Dnhp9JrptIHmFqCIKEycfIuiLCHG/XZ3eEOfSoVUjG+sdNdKZjNqe6u56F 1ebVxPmyP1j1GjcBIRtZj9Hjkw8sDqpqS3VhGf8TU57PSbE0hhw= =opRT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --MfFXiAuoTsnnDAfZ-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 08:32:51 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B172F1E014A for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 08:32:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gljennjohn@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm1-x341.google.com (mail-wm1-x341.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::341]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vGSy1hYbz4LWB for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 08:32:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gljennjohn@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm1-x341.google.com with SMTP id 20so1003064wmj.4 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 00:32:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=j8ArpeoqO3WcpXMGwJIdtbBfLFhn9lmJQOis8qiSV+o=; b=HcOhBDnB77vggC5+BQ15CtG/TxORyRiqPYhKmzO9hVgMwux9E+bqes0RHys/TWt4RJ hgWoKMP1vBBkVCB4tb/1S1zS8XDsHH0dXOMUzrcR9foSsit+m1+bt4vCjggaMymxea49 GWO4PvDJmAkDoUQXa0Iw9nrqskRb2Sz3H49UvFMwDS9jxGTstB+/Vzrd12BEhwtR9uYE 6JNHHSlfmXcEadCmMsurc8pZPbdYEl/WqVCdYDIUY3vqgmQ4L00nz23/emIeVHFwlIwY NHjIcrTGnAUGf6jhLNWaCrpmtSLfF0AS2gsQNEANS0So/PtvT8C8DOdOAxkESI7vCXG5 Gj/g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=j8ArpeoqO3WcpXMGwJIdtbBfLFhn9lmJQOis8qiSV+o=; b=mhlooiAtHD4Qgr5ozmYt+Hj9H1ObU86XDwURA5RWqmyskbfHSyYFzCMYdE1iWVXbvf tzbzlQXuXzbnfSRVlkpE55zxgOTiZ8ZxcULqAI1OAIpiP8oGHJAiyFIBSXUnyG3DZMLl kWxTMUK0D4+kefH0Eyy/4dLfwTw6vOcX2kVfuDIpQJxFuBDEhsOqPzRhyFPBX+vjKtzl /vcZz29jOrSnThRItTqEKplvZXIZS9xTZpbXmSo6O+cOy74CrmJPKLKhQMzzA8Ri5MaG ZAT8H/vBKryV0nlUHuDxvgOkwXEG5G8/I/I6jXP9SfCQWMgeyqSfSg/IEH5LgWfCIMQp PQEg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUWUA49aLdPPuDvKO9eZc3p5LFCaNFryHrHde9QDjLqDB0DXxPC u7rk20Us9HTN3AjHOOlHukwtWEjr X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyY8hvS87VzfoyK3O7NOo7XjdvT37WUWaHgH0aOJualXObTDSZOY3vFO7uIAwuHjwPjww+91g== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:5f8a:: with SMTP id t132mr2781022wmb.162.1578645167479; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 00:32:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernst.home (pD9E235CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [217.226.53.206]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q3sm1311485wmj.38.2020.01.10.00.32.46 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 00:32:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 09:32:45 +0100 From: Gary Jennejohn To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE Message-ID: <20200110093245.1d11d175@ernst.home> In-Reply-To: References: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> <20200108141810.GX23031@kib.kiev.ua> <20200109164519.33fc7478@ernst.home> <20200109204943.GC25924@server.rulingia.com> Reply-To: gljennjohn@gmail.com X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.4 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vGSy1hYbz4LWB X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=HcOhBDnB; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of gljennjohn@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::341 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gljennjohn@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[gljennjohn@gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[206.53.226.217.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FREEMAIL_REPLYTO(0.00)[gmail.com]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (2.63), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.61), asn: 15169(-1.85), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.4.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 08:32:51 -0000 On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 14:14:09 -0700 Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 1:55 PM Peter Jeremy wrote: > > > On 2020-Jan-09 16:45:19 +0100, Gary Jennejohn > > wrote: > > >On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 15:21:25 +0100 (CET) > > >Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > >> why FreeBSD default is so completely wrong for modern hardware? > > >> > > >> i think 4MB is OK for HDDs, more may be optimal for RAID5 arrays. > > > > > >POLA (principle of least amazement). I certainly don't need a MAXPHYS set > > >to 4MB on my desktop machine. > > > > What are the downsides of running with MAXPHYS set to 4MB (or similar)? > > > > There's two issues. One, it makes every buf and bio 32 times larger. > Second, there's a lot of drivers that say their max I/O size is MAXPHYS > when really they mean max(128k,MAXPHYS). Newer hardware is better about it, > but not perfect (I had to fix a NVMe bug because the format of SG lists we > used is limited to 4k which means our NVMe driver can't do more than 1MB > I/Os). DFLTPHYS also needs to be raised. There are (or were) some drivers > in the tree that bogusly used DFLTPHYS as the maximum I/O, though I think I > caught all of those. And once you bump MAXPHYS, there's other limits you'll > run into with fast SSDs/NVMe drives (like runningbufs limiting write > throughput). > [I reduced the Cc: list] Not just storage drivers use MAXPHYS. All of the attempts at porting the rtsx SD controller driver from OpenBSD use MAXPHYS. That's due to the OpenBSD code using it; but MAXPHYS on OpenBSD is only 64KiB. It would definitely be a POLA violation if MAXPHYS were suddenly set to e.g. 1MiB. Assuming we ever get the DMA to work. -- Gary Jennejohn From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 12:25:50 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D0411E5FE4 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:25:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vMdm5Cdqz4Xqy; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:25:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 00ACPegP060528 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 13:25:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578659142; bh=OPCzf3MXk77Rg/NU2zj7VnosbVh9O/sdvj7+GOh1w0g=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=iKcZN5B8Yp0UXRiYTwTzAqRafLt4EKCjKnOlA1YRoNBsx8miNga3jJ3dju6tpl+0n ip83HEn+7fP9FB9nsbSQ0ALpSYwGtt2cL3EWzQNCHVNiHt3S3j9U/xhkHwHvWyNdHv Ql4haNoPhIdnY1ycOGHRew/AwpZHic37OyEN0wy0= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 00ACPeDc060514; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 13:25:40 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 13:25:40 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Peter Jeremy cc: Gary Jennejohn , Hans Petter Selasky , Rick Macklem , Conrad Meyer , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Wojciech Puchar , Konstantin Belousov Subject: Re: maximum MAXBSIZE In-Reply-To: <20200109204943.GC25924@server.rulingia.com> Message-ID: References: <20200108105136.0d54ebce@ernst.home> <20200108141810.GX23031@kib.kiev.ua> <20200109164519.33fc7478@ernst.home> <20200109204943.GC25924@server.rulingia.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vMdm5Cdqz4Xqy X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=iKcZN5B8; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.29 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; IP_SCORE(-2.99)[ip: (-7.90), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-3.95), asn: 43476(-3.16), country: PL(0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:25:50 -0000 >>> i think 4MB is OK for HDDs, more may be optimal for RAID5 arrays. >> >> POLA (principle of least amazement). I certainly don't need a MAXPHYS set >> to 4MB on my desktop machine. > > What are the downsides of running with MAXPHYS set to 4MB (or similar)? For now i do not observe any. I will post if i do. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 14:04:13 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B490C1E8606 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 14:04:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vPqJ5cVvz4d6Y for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 14:04:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 00AE48t5033083 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:04:08 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578665049; bh=qaTZCL6n/LoB9UQQeT3T8C8xQh7qkAPSYXk6jE8q6os=; h=Date:From:To:Subject; b=i7h2Jsp2Wbd+rRlgWRC47m+ATcCYPdv+UhMWl2QqRjNXopTVK+LdcEy2AnAU7opwX 8LOAYND/BvYkhCTVlWqIWkHebe9rIHqT9kr19yUuRwsiSQAMIKClIyRyiazXPO0TU/ 7PGccNKWcLzIeUnvfx2dwIpXJip2TZVwEAQTDUSs= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 00AE48mW033080 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:04:08 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:04:08 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Raspberry PI zero USB - problem Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vPqJ5cVvz4d6Y X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=i7h2Jsp2; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.28 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.98)[ip: (-7.87), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-3.93), asn: 43476(-3.15), country: PL(0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 14:04:13 -0000 i have raspberry Pi ZERO - power over USB and USB on the go, serial console everything works except USB. When i attach pendrive to it over USB nothing happens. While at boot usb is detected, even uhub so everything should work. In the same time pendrive is detected when i try to boot with it inserted. what am i doing wrong. RPi Zero is descriped clearly here: https://wiki.freebsd.org/arm/Raspberry%20Pi and USB works both device and host. is there something that must be set to make it work under FreeBSD? From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 14:05:03 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8D21E8735 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 14:05:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vPrH1vk2z4dFF for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 14:05:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 00AE511Z033985 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:05:01 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578665101; bh=IFVa3c9JJc23K/LV6py7D8r4HAoXedIITxR96hVbsyY=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=g1CyYbiaH3SDjmw9xoRQ57pSq4Q456eLjeSdeAxtGLBoNqXk8236yw70+oEa3cN7b gNGVWyPaPiWTUL/M947TWKvH1ghp8ThX1nkq5xYEcS4zWVJqYNE2YdxVEiz1Jwt465 /vpKAOuGpNWvK9NfwyJlY5DZSQdbhSm10p0aBqfM= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 00AE51Sk033982 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:05:01 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:05:01 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Raspberry PI zero USB - boot log In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vPrH1vk2z4dFF X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=g1CyYbia; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.26 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.993,0]; SH_EMAIL_ZRD(0.00)[0.0.0.0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; SH_EMAIL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[0.0.0.0]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; CTYPE_MIXED_BOGUS(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.96)[ip: (-7.84), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-3.92), asn: 43476(-3.13), country: PL(0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 14:05:03 -0000 MMC: mmc@7e300000: 1 Loading Environment from FAT... In: serial Out: vidconsole Err: vidconsole Net: No ethernet found. starting USB... Bus usb@7e980000: scanning bus usb@7e980000 for devices... 1 USB Device(s) found scanning usb for storage devices... 0 Storage Device(s) found Hit any key to stop autoboot: 2  1  0 MMC Device 0 not found no mmc device at slot 0 switch to partitions #0, OK mmc1 is current device Scanning mmc 1:1... Found EFI removable media binary efi/boot/bootarm.efi libfdt fdt_check_header(): FDT_ERR_BADMAGIC 78Scanning disk mmc@7e300000.blk... Found 3 disks BootOrder not defined EFI boot manager: Cannot load any image 624336 bytes read in 83 ms (7.2 MiB/s) libfdt fdt_check_header(): FDT_ERR_BADMAGIC [?25hConsoles: EFI console |/-\ Reading loader env vars from /efi/freebsd/loader.env Setting currdev to disk0p1: |/-\|/FreeBSD/arm EFI loader, Revision 1.1 Command line arguments: l EFI version: 2.80 EFI Firmware: Das U-Boot (rev 8217.4096) Console: efi (0) Load Path: /efi\boot\bootarm.efi Load Device: /VenHw(e61d73b9-a384-4acc-aeab-82e828f3628b)/SD(1)/SD(0)/HD(1,MBR,0x90909090,0x800,0x36ad0c0) Trying ESP: /VenHw(e61d73b9-a384-4acc-aeab-82e828f3628b)/SD(1)/SD(0)/HD(1,MBR,0x90909090,0x800,0x36ad0c0) Setting currdev to disk0p1: -\|/-\|/-\|/Trying: /VenHw(e61d73b9-a384-4acc-aeab-82e828f3628b)/SD(1)/SD(0)/HD(2,MBR,0x90909090,0x36ad8c0,0x4c4b40) Setting currdev to disk0p2: -\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\Loading /boot/defaults/loader.conf Loading /boot/device.hints |/-\|/-\|/-\|/-Loading /boot/loader.conf \|/-\|Loading /boot/loader.conf.local /-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|Loading kernel... /-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-/boot/kernel/kernel data=0x75a324+0x1edcdc \|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/syms=[0x4+0xc2dd0-\|/-\+0x4+0xcc072|/-\|/-] Loading configured modules... \|/-\|/-\|/-\|//boot/kernel/umodem.ko text=0x2438 data=0x244+0x4 syms=[0x4+0xa00+0x4+0xaf6] loading required module 'ucom' -\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-/boot/kernel/ucom.ko text=0x4390 data=0x3d4+0x838 \syms=[0x4+0xeb0+0x4+0xc2e] |/-\|/-\/boot/entropy size=0x1000 Hit [Enter] to boot immediately, or any other key for command prompt. Booting [/boot/kernel/kernel] in 1 second... Booting [/boot/kernel/kernel]... Using DTB provided by EFI at 0x7ef6000. Kernel entry at 0x14c00100... Kernel args: (null) |/-\|/---<>--- Copyright (c) 1992-2020 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD is a registered trademark of The FreeBSD Foundation. FreeBSD 12.1-STABLE r356529 RPI-B arm FreeBSD clang version 9.0.1 (git@github.com:llvm/llvm-project.git c1a0a213378a458fbea1a5c77b315c7dce08fd05) (based on LLVM 9.0.1) VT: init without driver. CPU: ARM ARM1176 r0p7 (ECO: 0x00000000) CPU Features: Thumb, Security, VMSAv7 Optional instructions: UMULL, SMULL, MLA, SIMD(ext) 16KB/32B 4-way instruction cache 16KB/32B 4-way WB data cache real memory = 469757952 (447 MB) avail memory = 446189568 (425 MB) random: unblocking device. random: entropy device external interface kbd0 at kbdmux0 ofwbus0: simplebus0: on ofwbus0 intc0: mem 0x7e00b200-0x7e00b3ff on simplebus0 gpio0: mem 0x7e200000-0x7e2000b3 irq 19,20 on simplebus0 gpiobus0: on gpio0 bcm_dma0: mem 0x7e007000-0x7e007eff irq 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16 on simplebus0 Checking root against raspberrypi,model-b Checking root against brcm,bcm2835 bcmwd0: mem 0x7e100000-0x7e100113,0x7e00a000-0x7e00a023 on simplebus0 bcmrng0: mem 0x7e104000-0x7e10400f irq 17 on simplebus0 mbox0: mem 0x7e00b880-0x7e00b8bf irq 18 on simplebus0 gpioc0: on gpio0 uart0: mem 0x7e201000-0x7e2011ff irq 21 on simplebus0 uart0: console (115200,n,8,1) bcm283x_dwcotg0: mem 0x7e980000-0x7e98ffff,0x7e006000-0x7e006fff irq 41,42 on simplebus0 usbus0 on bcm283x_dwcotg0 systimer0 mem 0x7e003000-0x7e003fff irq 43,44,45,46 on simplebus0 Event timer "BCM2835-3" frequency 1000000 Hz quality 1000 Timecounter "BCM2835-3" frequency 1000000 Hz quality 1000 sdhci_bcm0: mem 0x7e300000-0x7e3000ff irq 48 on simplebus0 mmc0: on sdhci_bcm0 vchiq0: mem 0x7e00b840-0x7e00b87b irq 52 on simplebus0 vchiq: local ver 8 (min 3), remote ver 8. pcm0: on vchiq0 fb0: on simplebus0 fbd0 on fb0 VT: initialize with new VT driver "fb". fb0: 656x416(656x416@0,0) 24bpp fb0: fbswap: 1, pitch 1968, base 0x1eb33000, screen_size 818688 gpioled0: on ofwbus0 cryptosoft0: intc0: Stray irq 17 disabled Timecounters tick every 1.000 msec usbus0: 480Mbps High Speed USB v2.0 ugen0.1: at usbus0 uhub0: on usbus0 mmcsd0: 32GB at mmc0 50.0MHz/4bit/65535-block Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ufs/rootfs [rw,noatime]... Warning: no time-of-day clock registered, system time will not be set accurately uhub0: 1 port with 1 removable, self powered Setting hostuuid: d885de37-3299-11ea-b6c2-93a4fee15f62. Setting hostid: 0xb6bb69d6. Starting file system checks: /dev/ufs/rootfs: FILE SYSTEM CLEAN; SKIPPING CHECKS /dev/ufs/rootfs: clean, 444504 free (1048 frags, 55432 blocks, 0.2% fragmentation) /dev/mmcsd0s1: FILESYSTEM CLEAN; SKIPPING CHECKS Mounting local filesystems:. ELF ldconfig path: /lib /usr/lib /usr/lib/compat Soft Float compatibility ldconfig path: Setting hostname: rejestrator. Setting up harvesting: [UMA],[FS_ATIME],SWI,INTERRUPT,NET_NG,NET_ETHER,NET_TUN,MOUSE,KEYBOARD,ATTACH,CACHED Feeding entropy: . lo0: link state changed to UP Starting Network: lo0. lo0: flags=8049 metric 0 mtu 16384 options=680003 inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128 inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 groups: lo nd6 options=21 add host 127.0.0.1: gateway lo0 fib 0: route already in table add host ::1: gateway lo0 fib 0: route already in table add net fe80::: gateway ::1 add net ff02::: gateway ::1 add net ::ffff:0.0.0.0: gateway ::1 add net ::0.0.0.0: gateway ::1 Starting syslogd. Clearing /tmp (X related). Updating motd:. Mounting late filesystems:. Configuring vt: blanktime. Starting cron. Fri Jan 10 14:58:38 CET 2020 FreeBSD/arm (rejestrator) (ttyu0) login: root Password: Last login: Fri Jan 10 14:58:05 on ttyu0 FreeBSD 12.1-STABLE r356529 RPI-B Welcome to FreeBSD! Release Notes, Errata: https://www.FreeBSD.org/releases/ Security Advisories: https://www.FreeBSD.org/security/ FreeBSD Handbook: https://www.FreeBSD.org/handbook/ FreeBSD FAQ: https://www.FreeBSD.org/faq/ Questions List: https://lists.FreeBSD.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions/ FreeBSD Forums: https://forums.FreeBSD.org/ Documents installed with the system are in the /usr/local/share/doc/freebsd/ directory, or can be installed later with: pkg install en-freebsd-doc For other languages, replace "en" with a language code like de or fr. Show the version of FreeBSD installed: freebsd-version ; uname -a Please include that output and any error messages when posting questions. Introduction to manual pages: man man FreeBSD directory layout: man hier Edit /etc/motd to change this login announcement. 78(max 60 seconds) for system thread `bufspacedaemon-0' to stop... done All buffers synced. Uptime: 30s The operating system has halted. Please press any key to reboot. ~ [EOT] [root@wojtek /tmp]# exit Script done on Fri Jan 10 15:01:10 2020 From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 14:06:31 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A0AD1E8908 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 14:06:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [88.99.82.50]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vPsy4zZKz4dP3; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 14:06:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2020.home.selasky.org (unknown [62.141.129.235]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E959F2600D5; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:06:28 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Raspberry PI zero USB - problem To: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Edward_Tomasz_Napiera=c5=82a?= References: From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:06:14 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vPsy4zZKz4dP3 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of hps@selasky.org designates 88.99.82.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hps@selasky.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.41 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mail.turbocat.net:c]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[selasky.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-3.11)[ip: (-9.34), ipnet: 88.99.0.0/16(-4.71), asn: 24940(-1.50), country: DE(-0.02)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:88.99.0.0/16, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 14:06:31 -0000 On 2020-01-10 15:04, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > i have raspberry Pi ZERO - power over USB and USB on the go, serial console > everything works except USB. When i attach pendrive to it over USB > nothing happens. While at boot usb is detected, even uhub so everything > should work. > > In the same time pendrive is detected when i try to boot with it inserted. > > > what am i doing wrong. RPi Zero is descriped clearly here: > > https://wiki.freebsd.org/arm/Raspberry%20Pi > > and USB works both device and host. > > is there something that must be set to make it work under FreeBSD? > This question is for Edward. Maybe a FDT descriptor regression? There were some patches recently in the DWC OTG driver. Are you using the latest kernel? --HPS From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 15:55:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6C081EAED8 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:55:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jpaetzel@FreeBSD.org) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vSJB4w6Hz3GMY for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:55:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jpaetzel@FreeBSD.org) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4D4921FF1 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:55:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap2 ([10.202.2.52]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:55:52 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:message-id :mime-version:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=Ua/v4gCiX1Rvq+0sH6RugI0mWyDw1 6z/n82eEJdNAM0=; b=bwtlaj5QTWv6K1kBj0wP0g6WaC1K4ow2CIT7aQjg+k7mv SGSMt3EpZL7QXPMl3aQM8N49T3UsTIoDRZR1RDhnyaefFBXYrRPkTzrUPs4QkUVE v10bSd8IajKq/dJmLWrQ+UiVAKnLGe7vdRo2B7wGY/uGeF1DNCLpGJxFAXr5YnoE tOyatvFyFcQzi6YWWYbeszFo/CzcSIbdiLBAheiWxOwcL5bigwYu7glV2FPJditq FYN5mrSVg9BsAILNHKvF6AxJEoXQqOyPMX6n6uEb4mw4SxkG+3uL2xELG1naiozz HDyymBDFbUELYOEWv/LFubTE2eluPhyvmeXdF2buQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvdeifedgjeekucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgggkfffhffvufgtsehttdertd erredtnecuhfhrohhmpedflfhoshhhucfrrggvthiivghlfdcuoehjphgrvghtiigvlhes hfhrvggvuefuffdrohhrgheqnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehjphgrvghtii gvlheshfhrvggvuefuffdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8CC40E00A2; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:55:52 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-740-g7d9d84e-fmstable-20200109v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <46480be7-b1a1-4da8-97ea-c4b97b0b997c@www.fastmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 09:55:23 -0600 From: "Josh Paetzel" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: open-vm-tools in base Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vSJB4w6Hz3GMY X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.94 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.95)[-0.951,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.993,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:66.111.4.0/24, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:55:54 -0000 I've socialized putting emulators/open-vm-tools-nox11 in base to a small group of developers and gotten positive feedback, so I'm widening the audience. Proposal: Put emulators/open-vm-tools-nox11 in the base system of FreeBSD This port contains kernel modules and a binary to ease running FreeBSD as a VM in a VMware virtualized environment. VMware supports this port by directly maintaining the code for it, however they do not include the FreeBSD version of the tools in the hypervisors anymore. (You can't just click "install guest tools" from the VMware management interface) Because these kernel modules are out of tree they are broken with some regularity by changes to HEAD. By putting a version of them in tree changes to HEAD that broke the drivers and kernel modules would be more obvious to developers. I have never heard of a drawback or reason why you wouldn't want to run these tools. The main reason I see them not installed is due to people not knowing about them or forgetting to install them, or running VMs in environments where installing 3rd party software that needs an internet link is problematic. I'd continue to proxy changes back upstream as I've been doing for some time now. There is some precedent for this. Driver(s?) that were once a part of the tools have been moved to base already. The VMXNET3 driver is an example of this. Also, the RC scripts that load the tools and start the userland daemons run a VMware included binary to check if the platform is supported by the tools, and just don't start them if it's an unsupported platform, so there's no danger to just trying to start them blindly across the default installs. Since emulators/open-vm-tools (the master port to emulators/open-vm-tools-nox11) depends on X11 and is not a candidate to include in the base system, I'd like to keep the ability to install the package/port for both open-vm-tools and open-vm-tools-nox11 and let the user select which one is started. -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 16:15:04 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13BEA1EB7AF for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:15:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vSkH6q12z3HJw for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:15:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-qv1-f45.google.com (mail-qv1-f45.google.com [209.85.219.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: kevans) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D85C71B20 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:15:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-qv1-f45.google.com with SMTP id m14so972808qvl.3 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 08:15:03 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXYm+dU6o07g/E2qTMpuv/Uq1gVvKkYsla811Fqg+gT4J3Xf6BD vB7fiXhIf37p+H+cbGGHTv/NQJgLStwqTbnShSk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxMXEsAvFgYu8LUCTikP0ISLsykIKTO8m08F0DqLOLkDY2U28YJ1L+4Ele6vBmO4jc0/74Ot/jCv/+FyXrBEgE= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:fe8d:: with SMTP id d13mr3375475qvs.150.1578672903500; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 08:15:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kyle Evans Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:14:52 -0600 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Raspberry PI zero USB - problem To: Wojciech Puchar Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:15:04 -0000 (Resend it to actually go the mailing list; apologies for the dupe) On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 8:04 AM Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > i have raspberry Pi ZERO - power over USB and USB on the go, serial > console > everything works except USB. When i attach pendrive to it over USB nothing > happens. While at boot usb is detected, even uhub so everything should > work. > > In the same time pendrive is detected when i try to boot with it inserted. > > > what am i doing wrong. RPi Zero is descriped clearly here: > > https://wiki.freebsd.org/arm/Raspberry%20Pi > > and USB works both device and host. > > is there something that must be set to make it work under FreeBSD? > This is almost certainly the problem that was just fixed in r356564, as pointed out by Hans -- sorry for the breakage. Thanks, Kyle Evans From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 17:00:39 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65A051EC699 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:00:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vTkt0p3Kz3KZ4; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:00:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 00AH0UVM019101 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:00:31 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578675633; bh=6dOfjChX3IczL0/j+vyKZUb0Kl/RzxBI817f2UrBJ8E=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=cBRXMI2UFqainGLRPf8jcqdqwKDNpXQTwvlitWVgVv+Ow0cfLz+7DzGV7eUJhFNcT 9sZGIGa/KSDdSQrXS1T4HlOg7Yd3vg8cfeB5qIZD6rp6uFajTSoKG48LFGoFc4y/UZ aUqOhQ3AS1mQG+EJ6wWKNnWIDNcyv8rbRzWv8fXM= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 00AH0USM019098; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:00:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:00:30 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Hans Petter Selasky cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Edward_Tomasz_Napiera=B3a?= Subject: Re: Raspberry PI zero USB - problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vTkt0p3Kz3KZ4 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=cBRXMI2U; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.25 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.95)[ip: (-7.81), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-3.90), asn: 43476(-3.12), country: PL(0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:00:39 -0000 On Fri, 10 Jan 2020, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On 2020-01-10 15:04, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> i have raspberry Pi ZERO - power over USB and USB on the go, serial console >> everything works except USB. When i attach pendrive to it over USB nothing >> happens. While at boot usb is detected, even uhub so everything should >> work. >> >> In the same time pendrive is detected when i try to boot with it inserted. >> >> >> what am i doing wrong. RPi Zero is descriped clearly here: >> >> https://wiki.freebsd.org/arm/Raspberry%20Pi >> >> and USB works both device and host. >> >> is there something that must be set to make it work under FreeBSD? >> > > This question is for Edward. Maybe a FDT descriptor regression? There were > some patches recently in the DWC OTG driver. Are you using the latest kernel? > > --HPS installed 12.1 image. and modified it slightly after - smaller partition (needed large FAT partition for exchange) etc. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 17:01:23 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B289D1EC810 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:01:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vTlk6vGHz3Ktf for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:01:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 00AH1Ikx019496 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:01:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1578675679; bh=B+9sY+bQF48RJZA08kL5MqYzHTlFqv54ixxH27g4Aho=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=jP0KeICXpnjM6HB+trMxp1sD1ZRSjd4D08SJbuUsKX7ySw8EDMjhGHG5/maJt7YQ/ LOxEv4JJDmztT0ZRBNL07CFmSRoZ+e1S4Zg+V5+hxSgqjZ9xpCLYoI1dqtAeFNqay7 mWh2AYOsMwncrPcBOO7VKhpme8m7W7pvahnG8ITA= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 00AH1IeC019493; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:01:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:01:18 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Kyle Evans cc: Wojciech Puchar , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Raspberry PI zero USB - problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vTlk6vGHz3Ktf X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=jP0KeICX; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.24 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[puchar.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:-]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.94)[ip: (-7.77), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-3.89), asn: 43476(-3.11), country: PL(0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:01:23 -0000 >> and USB works both device and host. >> >> is there something that must be set to make it work under FreeBSD? >> > > This is almost certainly the problem that was just fixed in r356564, > as pointed out by Hans -- sorry for the breakage. should i just svnlink release/12 and compile? Or maybe some ready images available? From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 17:25:48 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7ACC1ED402 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:25:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vVHw50ydz3M3Q; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:25:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 00AHPfLc006562 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 09:25:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 00AHPfrV006561; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 09:25:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 09:25:41 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Josh Paetzel Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: open-vm-tools in base Message-ID: <20200110172541.GA6529@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <46480be7-b1a1-4da8-97ea-c4b97b0b997c@www.fastmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <46480be7-b1a1-4da8-97ea-c4b97b0b997c@www.fastmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.2 (2019-09-21) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vVHw50ydz3M3Q X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:25:48 -0000 On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 09:55:23AM -0600, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > There is some precedent for this. Driver(s?) that were once a > part of the tools have been moved to base already. The VMXNET3 > driver is an example of this. > There is also precedent for removing a working driver from base and putting it into ports. See drm2. Leave it in ports. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 17:44:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EBB31EDB78 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:44:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vVjz430Qz3Mv8 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:44:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com with SMTP id t6so1104335qvs.5 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 09:44:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dLCfMLSyMDBGvoTlcNK3xSF6QEz4JbUYO6jqtDVThGY=; b=A0YlvOzF2mnfzb6yagsFokoqdWzsdlUI/JpoNALqRLDZd44CJaw9ufYGuMp/fP4lqR r4IuDYmrAzuMa4ZylNZyiJKINK4yF1eB9Tu4CLj4jx1Xm+FTlsiUCcy8GOnhfoNxu9pZ KJ96DmYeFhxUHllaEABwkhLxKHTHQojTenN2wtlDNFXqFE3VvWjoGO8uMJDxQ5c/hG5+ vMQcLIGEmGeb+ffxS+nGV9wyeAHa3WPwoJV16xerKGF20gJk1tBKJpE5bYEJQP3pACHp Vy9RWc/IAb3ejy6HqpMDYUay+RoDYdyZ2bXfbRnijE6zWiJv7wuRHsONENaRLiq/if8t h5ZQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dLCfMLSyMDBGvoTlcNK3xSF6QEz4JbUYO6jqtDVThGY=; b=LtxOJQmDDdVN5dSXnLpw31/bLEN4Pxnj9ICYSZtsceCMp09vB2SC5/uYYVJyfqzWXb GqsE1iwRlOsRuTLyXGIjmNhReJcxdB3//uTybMePlOkEUlnpn8LPlBKGwVqh0DWeT7cR Cpx3jq4xc000jLXwNvy3cKyosyrEGULpCq37DGCCzdGdmNRaDm4cP1wYjVHQIPUp6B05 oAQL1NVdpChzR4PIGbIL5aoEb86RnWcVBM632MvsSTSz9FJ+aCF4m7dGUSlljSK/91uD Yi0xXroeFCr/pUwzDWhw0yAbOPJA1H/mrztLTj02efODy7SyFo6GeykPi6za6qjPM2vS R+2w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWeGVxhUIcmasvNXMvGQuzmw7N+90CkHe/7buxtKnuPaNTykxgo zc8cBgw+CaEa4w1LwsMP/WU/7euUvc3R74y2XY5riw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw8vKpa7ZEhUwjvLKsvAfVjO/2VS2OhiqclIjY/S/Czx87NmsDbYG64wHJ80ogSmpUTmcK4Z1cz2ska5mJcoIY= X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4810:: with SMTP id g16mr3719810qvy.22.1578678289426; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 09:44:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <46480be7-b1a1-4da8-97ea-c4b97b0b997c@www.fastmail.com> <20200110172541.GA6529@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <20200110172541.GA6529@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:44:38 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: open-vm-tools in base To: Steve Kargl Cc: Josh Paetzel , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vVjz430Qz3Mv8 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=A0YlvOzF; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2a) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.99 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-1.99)[ip: (-5.94), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.11), asn: 15169(-1.84), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:44:56 -0000 On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 10:26 AM Steve Kargl < sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 09:55:23AM -0600, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > > > There is some precedent for this. Driver(s?) that were once a > > part of the tools have been moved to base already. The VMXNET3 > > driver is an example of this. > > > > There is also precedent for removing a working driver from > base and putting it into ports. See drm2. > Not the best example to cite as there's been a lot of bumps with that and the future distribution model is unclear to me. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 18:30:32 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C4A1EEF7E for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:30:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpokala@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vWkc5nNTz3QKK for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:30:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpokala@freebsd.org) Received: from [172.17.133.228] (unknown [12.202.168.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: rpokala) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 814FC2A80 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:30:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpokala@freebsd.org) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.20.0.191208 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:30:29 -0800 Subject: Console redirection for UEFI and IPMI-SOL From: Ravi Pokala To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Message-ID: <0E861DC2-D1C3-4E17-A8C1-FD68C60147CA@freebsd.org> Thread-Topic: Console redirection for UEFI and IPMI-SOL Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:30:33 -0000 Hi folks, I'm trying to bring 12.1-RELEASE up on a new hardware platform. The system = will boot from an NVMe device, so it must boot using UEFI. I've installed UEFI-based systems several times before, without any trouble= . But for those previous platforms, the VGA console was all I needed; on thi= s new platform, I need a serial console, using IPMI Serial-Over-LAN. I've se= t up SOL plenty of times before too... but only on BIOS-based systems. It's = the combination of UEFI+SOL which seems to be causing me problems. When I boot, I see output from loader.efi on both the VGA and the SOL conso= les; they report the console type as "efi". When the kernel starts running, = I only see the output on the VGA console, not the SOL console. My ideal conf= iguration -- which is what I have on my BIOS-based systems -- is: - bootloader on both VGA console and SOL console - kernel output on both VGA console and SOL console - single-user prompt on whichever I selected as the primary (first in the '= console' list in /boot/loader.conf) - login prompts on both consoles after `getty' has started. =EF=BB=BFOn the aforementioned previous BIOS+SOL systems, /boot/loader.conf conta= ins the following: | boot_serial=3D"YES" | console=3D"comconsole vidconsole" | kern.vty=3D"vt" # 10.x; different on 12.1? | hw.vga.textmode=3D"1" When I used those same settings on the UEFI systems, loader.efi complains a= bout "vidconsole" not being valid, and I got no more output anywhere. Changi= ng that to "efi" let me get the kernel messages on the VGA console, but stil= l nothing on the SOL. I'm happy to provide more info about the platform; just tell me what comman= ds to run to gather it. Thanks, Ravi (rpokala@) From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 18:38:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 546B31EF791 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:38:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vWvb31Qdz3RDY; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:38:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 00AIcG7n007200 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:38:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 00AIcGh1007199; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:38:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:38:16 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Warner Losh Cc: Josh Paetzel , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: open-vm-tools in base Message-ID: <20200110183816.GA6857@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <46480be7-b1a1-4da8-97ea-c4b97b0b997c@www.fastmail.com> <20200110172541.GA6529@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.2 (2019-09-21) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vWvb31Qdz3RDY X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=washington.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.95.76.21) smtp.mailfrom=sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.23 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[washington.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.23)[ip: (0.05), ipnet: 128.95.0.0/16(-0.25), asn: 73(-0.89), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:73, ipnet:128.95.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:38:20 -0000 On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 10:44:38AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 10:26 AM Steve Kargl < > sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 09:55:23AM -0600, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > > > > > There is some precedent for this. Driver(s?) that were once a > > > part of the tools have been moved to base already. The VMXNET3 > > > driver is an example of this. > > > > > > > There is also precedent for removing a working driver from > > base and putting it into ports. See drm2. > > > > Not the best example to cite as there's been a lot of bumps with that and > the future distribution model is unclear to me. > Oddly enough I disagree. :-) Does the problems for open-vm-tools occur in freebsd-stable, where the kernel ABI should be stable? Freebsd-current is the development tree, and kernel changes might break 3rd party software. drm2 is a perfect example. In-base drm2 was working just fine and kept up-to-date with kernel changes when it was attached to the build. This seems to be what Josh wants for open-vm-tools. Once drm2 was detached from the build it was ocassionally broken, and someone (often times me) would find and report the breakage. If open-vm-tools is added to base, and then someone adds emulators/open-vm-tools-devel which supercedes in-base open-vm-tool, we're back to the in-base drm2 situation. Finally, open-vm-tools is used by what percentage of FreeBSD users? 1%? 5%? 50%? -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 18:53:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15A521EFFEA for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:53:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x82b.google.com (mail-qt1-x82b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vXDd6xDyz3xfK for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:53:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x82b.google.com with SMTP id t3so2800448qtr.11 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:53:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:53:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <46480be7-b1a1-4da8-97ea-c4b97b0b997c@www.fastmail.com> <20200110172541.GA6529@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20200110183816.GA6857@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <20200110183816.GA6857@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 11:52:53 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: open-vm-tools in base To: Steve Kargl Cc: Josh Paetzel , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vXDd6xDyz3xfK X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=F6T2jMAU; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::82b) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.67 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[b.2.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.67)[ip: (-9.34), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.11), asn: 15169(-1.84), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 18:53:07 -0000 On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 11:38 AM Steve Kargl < sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 10:44:38AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 10:26 AM Steve Kargl < > > sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 09:55:23AM -0600, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > There is some precedent for this. Driver(s?) that were once a > > > > part of the tools have been moved to base already. The VMXNET3 > > > > driver is an example of this. > > > > > > > > > > There is also precedent for removing a working driver from > > > base and putting it into ports. See drm2. > > > > > > > Not the best example to cite as there's been a lot of bumps with that and > > the future distribution model is unclear to me. > > > > Oddly enough I disagree. :-) > You're not on the front lines of fighting the impedance mismatch between package builds, -current changes and ports that depend a bit too much on our internals, either implicitly or explicitly. :) > Does the problems for open-vm-tools occur in freebsd-stable, > where the kernel ABI should be stable? > Except they aren't. virtualbox's kmod have issues as does kms-drm because we have no tools to test our KBI stability, so we encode a lot of internal junk we shouldn't and that causes breakages on the branch that are tricky to even known exist. > Freebsd-current is the development tree, and kernel changes > might break 3rd party software. drm2 is a perfect example. > In-base drm2 was working just fine and kept up-to-date with > kernel changes when it was attached to the build. This seems > to be what Josh wants for open-vm-tools. Once drm2 was detached > from the build it was ocassionally broken, and someone (often > times me) would find and report the breakage. If open-vm-tools > is added to base, and then someone adds emulators/open-vm-tools-devel > which supercedes in-base open-vm-tool, we're back to the in-base drm2 > situation. > The notion is that we'd not do that. It would all be in base. > Finally, open-vm-tools is used by what percentage of FreeBSD users? > 1%? 5%? 50%? > Without real data, it's hard to say. What percentage of people in FreeBSD use the ahd driver these days? I'll bet it's a lot less than would use this. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 19:04:10 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF3F61F0658 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 19:04:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jpaetzel@FreeBSD.org) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vXTQ3vMdz3yWt for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 19:04:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jpaetzel@FreeBSD.org) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CFED21AFB for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 14:04:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap2 ([10.202.2.52]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 14:04:09 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=GNaHxw nhePro++asb/JfbgW34jjoZLMDky+g20CMMaw=; b=imnI/dinMqx8SK7dnQCINc xRs4WPS1Befi1473D4JkEcqZNkQBYTZFTIkfUiP1FReWgT9QbpGBsHTrqKcF9daj pD8dH8HqwnlUMDdByRvhRlMuEswaLp0Tc5dpRtaBdXu1McKFapmrKE9FIdh/Vjsk Kat5SLnKnc3i/trKUbwfRBBI+gAuMStloY6SNU5XBjWuqUEu2/CkjtTIYcLgwV/n praVj+Hkl3us8dc1dQifo+Kgfko4/YVaByeZ8aCbstkeIkzkXP3aqJ56Sysm98tD uPJqS1QtXV3p1LwNfankGlWH7Io/Q+4fqRRjHplNv8uICtH75ewWoDDmdldvywkQ == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvdeifedgudduiecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesth dtredtreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdflohhshhcurfgrvghtiigvlhdfuceojhhprggvthii vghlsefhrhgvvgeuufffrdhorhhgqeenucffohhmrghinhepfhhrvggvsghsugdrohhrgh enucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhprggvthiivghlsefhrhgvvgeuufffrdho rhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id E912DE00A2; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 14:04:08 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-740-g7d9d84e-fmstable-20200109v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <7de57db8-4f65-4350-9357-5138974ed405@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20200110183816.GA6857@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <46480be7-b1a1-4da8-97ea-c4b97b0b997c@www.fastmail.com> <20200110172541.GA6529@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20200110183816.GA6857@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 13:03:24 -0600 From: "Josh Paetzel" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: open-vm-tools in base Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vXTQ3vMdz3yWt X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.98 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.981,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:66.111.4.0/24, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 19:04:10 -0000 On Fri, Jan 10, 2020, at 12:38 PM, Steve Kargl wrote: > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 10:44:38AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 10:26 AM Steve Kargl < > > sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 09:55:23AM -0600, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > There is some precedent for this. Driver(s?) that were once a > > > > part of the tools have been moved to base already. The VMXNET3 > > > > driver is an example of this. > > > > > > > > > > There is also precedent for removing a working driver from > > > base and putting it into ports. See drm2. > > > > > > > Not the best example to cite as there's been a lot of bumps with that and > > the future distribution model is unclear to me. > > > > Oddly enough I disagree. :-) > > Does the problems for open-vm-tools occur in freebsd-stable, > where the kernel ABI should be stable? > HEAD breakage is most common. There have been a few MFCs that have broken STABLE over the years but they are rare. > Freebsd-current is the development tree, and kernel changes > might break 3rd party software. drm2 is a perfect example. > In-base drm2 was working just fine and kept up-to-date with > kernel changes when it was attached to the build. This seems > to be what Josh wants for open-vm-tools. Can you clarify which part of my proposal wasn't clear? Or is "seem to want" just a conversational usage of language. > Once drm2 was detached > from the build it was ocassionally broken, and someone (often > times me) would find and report the breakage. If open-vm-tools > is added to base, and then someone adds emulators/open-vm-tools-devel > which supercedes in-base open-vm-tool, we're back to the in-base drm2 > situation. > I believe I addressed that in my initial email. If there is a /usr/local version of the tools installed the user can select between the base system version and the "3rd party" install. > Finally, open-vm-tools is used by what percentage of FreeBSD users? > 1%? 5%? 50%? > I don't believe we have the data to answer that. I can give some ancillary data though: When I was involved with FreeNAS ESXi was the single most popular platform to run it on, even though we straight out told people virtualizing FreeNAS wasn't recommended. (At one point 30% of the ~100K systems that were phoning home were reporting ESXi as their hardware platform) The last two places I've worked the virtualized FreeBSD instances outnumbered the on the iron FreeBSD systems by 10:1. (and one of those places was a hardware vendor that specialized in FreeBSD!) My personal belief is that it could be greater than 50%. That wouldn't surprise me. However, since there is precisely zero downside to including the open-vm-tools in a hardware install, my counter question to you would be "what difference does the percentage make?" I don't see an actual reason for an objection in your email. We're not talking about changing the maintenance workload here, just shifting it around. > -- > Steve > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 20:22:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004381F2BFC for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 20:22:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vZCL5v8qz45v4; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 20:22:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id 00AKLx5g001995; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:21:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id 00AKLxjW001994; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:21:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <202001102021.00AKLxjW001994@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: open-vm-tools in base In-Reply-To: <7de57db8-4f65-4350-9357-5138974ed405@www.fastmail.com> To: Josh Paetzel Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:21:59 -0800 (PST) CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vZCL5v8qz45v4 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.994,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 20:22:07 -0000 > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020, at 12:38 PM, Steve Kargl wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 10:44:38AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 10:26 AM Steve Kargl < > > > sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 09:55:23AM -0600, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > There is some precedent for this. Driver(s?) that were once a > > > > > part of the tools have been moved to base already. The VMXNET3 > > > > > driver is an example of this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is also precedent for removing a working driver from > > > > base and putting it into ports. See drm2. > > > > > > > > > > Not the best example to cite as there's been a lot of bumps with that and > > > the future distribution model is unclear to me. > > > > > > > Oddly enough I disagree. :-) > > > > Does the problems for open-vm-tools occur in freebsd-stable, > > where the kernel ABI should be stable? > > > > HEAD breakage is most common. There have been a few MFCs that have broken STABLE over the years but they are rare. > > > Freebsd-current is the development tree, and kernel changes > > might break 3rd party software. drm2 is a perfect example. > > In-base drm2 was working just fine and kept up-to-date with > > kernel changes when it was attached to the build. This seems > > to be what Josh wants for open-vm-tools. > > Can you clarify which part of my proposal wasn't clear? Or is "seem to want" just a conversational usage of language. > > > Once drm2 was detached > > from the build it was ocassionally broken, and someone (often > > times me) would find and report the breakage. If open-vm-tools > > is added to base, and then someone adds emulators/open-vm-tools-devel > > which supercedes in-base open-vm-tool, we're back to the in-base drm2 > > situation. > > > > I believe I addressed that in my initial email. If there is a /usr/local version of the tools installed the user can select between the base system version and the "3rd party" install. > > > Finally, open-vm-tools is used by what percentage of FreeBSD users? > > 1%? 5%? 50%? > > > > I don't believe we have the data to answer that. I can give some ancillary data though: > > When I was involved with FreeNAS ESXi was the single most popular platform to run it on, even though we straight out told people virtualizing FreeNAS wasn't recommended. (At one point 30% of the ~100K systems that were phoning home were reporting ESXi as their hardware platform) > > The last two places I've worked the virtualized FreeBSD instances outnumbered the on the iron FreeBSD systems by 10:1. (and one of those places was a hardware vendor that specialized in FreeBSD!) > > My personal belief is that it could be greater than 50%. That wouldn't surprise me. > > However, since there is precisely zero downside to including the open-vm-tools in a hardware install, my counter question to you would be "what difference does the percentage make?" > > I don't see an actual reason for an objection in your email. > > We're not talking about changing the maintenance workload here, just shifting it around. Perhaps rathan than have this argument over if this should be moved to ports find a road map that stops, or atleast very early identifies base system changes that cause breakage for these heavly base system dependent ports (short list here I am sure there are more:) drm2 lsof open-vm-tools virtualbox Building this short list of ports a few times a day should be trivial for the CI infustructure. As you stated the maintenance workload is invariant, so all that is really neded is early identification. And for pespective I run a lot of ESXi and FreeBSD guests... so any bias I might have is in the wrong direction :-) > > Steve > Josh Paetzel -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 10 20:56:33 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A0541F39B9 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 20:56:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jpaetzel@FreeBSD.org) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vZz51jt8z480n for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 20:56:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jpaetzel@FreeBSD.org) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E9521B6B for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:56:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap2 ([10.202.2.52]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:56:32 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=m4VCxh ZYldIo0FxOoApdSvJLmUTHVaegCcddnMlFufg=; b=HSTlNoIt6Qgm0rE/NeDONC UAWruCZSmg8zNsWo7oQastQBj82Fj4OC9HaxARKxLJAyajJ5fXpptDkQOM+vw3es fqARAWeH98KNgi8V37xy36c4LIP51iD3Tobk+x9AppRimSIAMhPm5QHsB2K25K0v c85PqOlr4/hgrMVD9t2AMSAwcVsDyVXNqj1+R+PkXWwbseXV9l9ipHgjHXvURAOd 4gvdyiW5woijLZSfOLyr5ReLNLSO8WnTVwuvvzjN+Xi2FPDSl8MsLHnaKRXPA3OF 3XVhPILONkKs8jx83bNxbIPlVBbjJMzMXuNr7BXVii4o4jdtRDgtOtQKToL4wr2A == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvdeifedgudefkecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesth dtredtreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdflohhshhcurfgrvghtiigvlhdfuceojhhprggvthii vghlsefhrhgvvgeuufffrdhorhhgqeenucffohhmrghinhepfhhrvggvsghsugdrohhrgh enucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhprggvthiivghlsefhrhgvvgeuufffrdho rhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id EBCB8E00A2; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 15:56:31 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-740-g7d9d84e-fmstable-20200109v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <202001102021.00AKLxjW001994@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> References: <202001102021.00AKLxjW001994@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 14:56:11 -0600 From: "Josh Paetzel" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: open-vm-tools in base Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vZz51jt8z480n X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.98 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.981,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:66.111.4.0/24, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 20:56:33 -0000 On Fri, Jan 10, 2020, at 2:21 PM, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020, at 12:38 PM, Steve Kargl wrote: > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 10:44:38AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 10:26 AM Steve Kargl < > > > > sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 09:55:23AM -0600, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > There is some precedent for this. Driver(s?) that were once a > > > > > > part of the tools have been moved to base already. The VMXNET3 > > > > > > driver is an example of this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is also precedent for removing a working driver from > > > > > base and putting it into ports. See drm2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not the best example to cite as there's been a lot of bumps with that and > > > > the future distribution model is unclear to me. > > > > > > > > > > Oddly enough I disagree. :-) > > > > > > Does the problems for open-vm-tools occur in freebsd-stable, > > > where the kernel ABI should be stable? > > > > > > > HEAD breakage is most common. There have been a few MFCs that have broken STABLE over the years but they are rare. > > > > > Freebsd-current is the development tree, and kernel changes > > > might break 3rd party software. drm2 is a perfect example. > > > In-base drm2 was working just fine and kept up-to-date with > > > kernel changes when it was attached to the build. This seems > > > to be what Josh wants for open-vm-tools. > > > > Can you clarify which part of my proposal wasn't clear? Or is "seem to want" just a conversational usage of language. > > > > > Once drm2 was detached > > > from the build it was ocassionally broken, and someone (often > > > times me) would find and report the breakage. If open-vm-tools > > > is added to base, and then someone adds emulators/open-vm-tools-devel > > > which supercedes in-base open-vm-tool, we're back to the in-base drm2 > > > situation. > > > > > > > I believe I addressed that in my initial email. If there is a /usr/local version of the tools installed the user can select between the base system version and the "3rd party" install. > > > > > Finally, open-vm-tools is used by what percentage of FreeBSD users? > > > 1%? 5%? 50%? > > > > > > > I don't believe we have the data to answer that. I can give some ancillary data though: > > > > When I was involved with FreeNAS ESXi was the single most popular platform to run it on, even though we straight out told people virtualizing FreeNAS wasn't recommended. (At one point 30% of the ~100K systems that were phoning home were reporting ESXi as their hardware platform) > > > > The last two places I've worked the virtualized FreeBSD instances outnumbered the on the iron FreeBSD systems by 10:1. (and one of those places was a hardware vendor that specialized in FreeBSD!) > > > > My personal belief is that it could be greater than 50%. That wouldn't surprise me. > > > > However, since there is precisely zero downside to including the open-vm-tools in a hardware install, my counter question to you would be "what difference does the percentage make?" > > > > I don't see an actual reason for an objection in your email. > > > > We're not talking about changing the maintenance workload here, just shifting it around. > > Perhaps rathan than have this argument over if this should be > moved to ports find a road map that stops, or atleast very > early identifies base system changes that cause breakage for > these heavly base system dependent ports (short list here > I am sure there are more:) > drm2 > lsof > open-vm-tools > virtualbox > There's no argument at all. I am simply looking for perspectives that I haven't considered. > Building this short list of ports a few times a day > should be trivial for the CI infustructure. > That already happens. I was notified within about 2 hours that a HEAD commit had broken the port. > As you stated the maintenance workload is invariant, > so all that is really neded is early identification. > Take for instance the latest breakage, r355732. From the commit message: " All in-tree consumers have been converted to callout(9)." Had open-vm-tools been in tree it wouldn't have gotten broken at all. But in the worst case I would be committing to src instead of ports. Either way I still have to upstream the changes. It's no more or less work either way. So the pros are really two parts, part one is making the code more visible to the src developers so they can chase changes. (It's very rare that people committing ABI breaking changes don't also modify all the consumers) and the second part is.... > And for pespective I run a lot of ESXi and FreeBSD guests... so > any bias I might have is in the wrong direction :-) > ...things would be a lot more convenient for people who run virtualized FreeBSD instances. This would Just Work (TM) and who doesn't love changes that move us closer to a "Just Works out of the box" state? > > > Steve > > Josh Paetzel > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Jan 11 03:31:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E3481FC2F5 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 03:31:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail.allbsd.org (mx.allbsd.org [IPv6:2001:2f0:104:e001::41]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature ECDSA (P-384) client-digest SHA384) (Client CN "mail.allbsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47vlkY1gHYz4VQC; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 03:31:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail-d.allbsd.org ([IPv6:2409:11:a740:4700:58:65ff:fe00:b0b]) (authenticated bits=56) by mail.allbsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 00B3UpWB094687 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) (Client CN "/CN=mail-d.allbsd.org", Issuer "/C=US/O=Let's+20Encrypt/CN=Let's+20Encrypt+20Authority+20X3"); Sat, 11 Jan 2020 12:31:02 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from alph.d.allbsd.org ([IPv6:2409:11:a740:4700:16:ceff:fe34:2700]) by mail-d.allbsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 00B3UkNw025000 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 11 Jan 2020 12:30:46 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) (authenticated bits=0) by alph.d.allbsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPA id 00B3Uh2w024996; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 12:30:46 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 12:28:02 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20200111.122802.721369381057911241.hrs@allbsd.org> To: jpaetzel@FreeBSD.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: open-vm-tools in base From: Hiroki Sato In-Reply-To: <46480be7-b1a1-4da8-97ea-c4b97b0b997c@www.fastmail.com> References: <46480be7-b1a1-4da8-97ea-c4b97b0b997c@www.fastmail.com> X-Old-PGPkey-fingerprint: BDB3 443F A5DD B3D0 A530 FFD7 4F2C D3D8 2793 CF2D X-PGPkey-fingerprint: 6C0D 2353 27CF 80C7 901E FDD2 DBB0 7DC6 6F1F 737F X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512; boundary="--Security_Multipart(Sat_Jan_11_12_28_02_2020_889)--" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (mail.allbsd.org [IPv6:2001:2f0:104:e001:0:0:0:41]); Sat, 11 Jan 2020 12:31:10 +0900 (JST) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47vlkY1gHYz4VQC X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.95 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.968,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7514, ipnet:2001:2f0::/32, country:JP]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.984,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 03:31:17 -0000 ----Security_Multipart(Sat_Jan_11_12_28_02_2020_889)-- Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Josh Paetzel" wrote in <46480be7-b1a1-4da8-97ea-c4b97b0b997c@www.fastmail.com>: jp> I've socialized putting emulators/open-vm-tools-nox11 in base to a jp> small group of developers and gotten positive feedback, so I'm jp> widening the audience. jp> jp> Proposal: Put emulators/open-vm-tools-nox11 in the base system of jp> FreeBSD jp> jp> This port contains kernel modules and a binary to ease running FreeBSD jp> as a VM in a VMware virtualized environment. VMware supports this jp> port by directly maintaining the code for it, however they do not jp> include the FreeBSD version of the tools in the hypervisors jp> anymore. (You can't just click "install guest tools" from the VMware jp> management interface) jp> jp> Because these kernel modules are out of tree they are broken with some jp> regularity by changes to HEAD. By putting a version of them in tree jp> changes to HEAD that broke the drivers and kernel modules would be jp> more obvious to developers. jp> jp> I have never heard of a drawback or reason why you wouldn't want to jp> run these tools. The main reason I see them not installed is due to jp> people not knowing about them or forgetting to install them, or jp> running VMs in environments where installing 3rd party software that jp> needs an internet link is problematic. jp> jp> I'd continue to proxy changes back upstream as I've been doing for jp> some time now. jp> jp> There is some precedent for this. Driver(s?) that were once a part of jp> the tools have been moved to base already. The VMXNET3 driver is an jp> example of this. Also, the RC scripts that load the tools and start jp> the userland daemons run a VMware included binary to check if the jp> platform is supported by the tools, and just don't start them if it's jp> an unsupported platform, so there's no danger to just trying to start jp> them blindly across the default installs. if_vmx was one ported from OpenBSD, not from open-vm-tools. VMXNET3 driver of open-vm-tools was maintained separately and removed recently. jp> Since emulators/open-vm-tools (the master port to jp> emulators/open-vm-tools-nox11) depends on X11 and is not a candidate jp> to include in the base system, I'd like to keep the ability to install jp> the package/port for both open-vm-tools and open-vm-tools-nox11 and jp> let the user select which one is started. I personally love to see open-vm-tools in the base system because it improves user's out-of-the-box experience. As long as it is possible to install emulators/open-vm-tools to override the stock version, I see no harmful effect for both users who do not use VMware and ones who want to use the latest version of open-vm-tools for some reason. However, one thing I want to point out is that open-vm-tools is not under BSDL. LGPL for the userland utilities and libraries, and GPL for the kernel modules. More specifically, the vmmemctl driver for FreeBSD is GPL'd, and vmblock is under 2-clause BSDL. Do we accept GPL'd kernel modules? Interestingly, modules for Solaris are under CDDL. When FreeBSD Foundation visited VMware a while ago, they said GPL (or LGPL) was chosen for compatibility with Linux kernel and they might be able to release pre-GPL version of the source code under BSDL because they wanted vendors/developer communities to maintain open-vm-tools together. I am not sure if this is still relevant because it was several years ago, but if we seriously think importing the kernel drivers and maintaining them actively, asking it again might be worth doing. -- Hiroki ----Security_Multipart(Sat_Jan_11_12_28_02_2020_889)-- Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iMkEABMKAC4WIQRsDSNTJ8+Ax5Ae/dLbsH3Gbx9zfwUCXhlAwhAcaHJzQGZyZWVi c2Qub3JnAAoJENuwfcZvH3N/1g0CBA1IOoAcqYw23K70CI0gqQf9FuN0dlwiymCv MFKv/AkgH/PhXQ+aTwzaTTJELlSBRTzFqE4s4DEf/pzfbjUDMw8qAgkBboLp2TSk PmRis4YzlG3G7rW8nrn+cdeXK/xALAhGHPjEf3Lwbg04qekg3bdaB2tDsKDa8B/w dzVjPXojvrwGqvY= =PSVo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----Security_Multipart(Sat_Jan_11_12_28_02_2020_889)---- From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Jan 11 12:50:35 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A7421E926B for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 12:50:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jpaetzel@FreeBSD.org) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47w07t5Yj5z42wn; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 12:50:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jpaetzel@FreeBSD.org) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7CEB20E7B; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 07:50:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 11 Jan 2020 07:50:33 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=6mljAiTB4Q5tWXFEPeP+7mRqaxMZGysPEjMUTH/oF Xw=; b=lRwath7lzTxW7esCIpLiCEAHZd421FnM51q1c9PNOVKL0ezuj9t27RKKe Cu4iMkmICNBe/o2igAAbnch3RpxD7fVsMd80a6WxBsA0zg6PHM5BU/E2c1wsGrxb aJWkxUORyGmN0o9xs/qBkwxHHI3rwF29WTheqchKBfRq3BW2iN9y3rr+X7KDPvhw KQz41Wp2IWZxCmF/GtrtNRTh6av7/hrzgdetQ0Rhulk+1Hc2sCIqScIQWMh0FLg6 XDqtCx15jvlWydiS5QPiFsqQGf3XZjVGQs/+ee3xt7m9JLoYjtZTRnk1XOMcXUky suzMnWy6oJh33nXv7ARJ3GEBDB0rg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvdeihedggeefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpegtgffhggfufffkfhgjvffosehtqh hmtdhhtdejnecuhfhrohhmpeflohhshhcurfgrvghtiigvlhcuoehjphgrvghtiigvlhes hfhrvggvuefuffdrohhrgheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpehfrghsthhmrghilhdrtghomhenuc fkphepudekgedruddttddrheefrddvleenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhp rggvthiivghlsefhrhgvvgeuufffrdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: from [192.168.133.203] (unknown [184.100.53.29]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 6C27730600A8; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 07:50:33 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Josh Paetzel Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: open-vm-tools in base Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 06:50:32 -0600 Message-Id: <5822F9CC-4739-475D-A88A-A504E492A12E@FreeBSD.org> References: <20200111.122802.721369381057911241.hrs@allbsd.org> Cc: "jpaetzel@freebsd.org" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20200111.122802.721369381057911241.hrs@allbsd.org> To: Hiroki Sato X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17C54) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47w07t5Yj5z42wn X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.88 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.91)[-0.909,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:66.111.4.0/24, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.972,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 12:50:35 -0000 >=20 > On Jan 10, 2020, at 9:31 PM, Hiroki Sato wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF"Josh Paetzel" wrote > in <46480be7-b1a1-4da8-97ea-c4b97b0b997c@www.fastmail.com>: >=20 > jp> I've socialized putting emulators/open-vm-tools-nox11 in base to a > jp> small group of developers and gotten positive feedback, so I'm > jp> widening the audience. > jp> > jp> Proposal: Put emulators/open-vm-tools-nox11 in the base system of > jp> FreeBSD > jp> > jp> This port contains kernel modules and a binary to ease running FreeBSD= > jp> as a VM in a VMware virtualized environment. VMware supports this > jp> port by directly maintaining the code for it, however they do not > jp> include the FreeBSD version of the tools in the hypervisors > jp> anymore. (You can't just click "install guest tools" from the VMware > jp> management interface) > jp> > jp> Because these kernel modules are out of tree they are broken with some= > jp> regularity by changes to HEAD. By putting a version of them in tree > jp> changes to HEAD that broke the drivers and kernel modules would be > jp> more obvious to developers. > jp> > jp> I have never heard of a drawback or reason why you wouldn't want to > jp> run these tools. The main reason I see them not installed is due to > jp> people not knowing about them or forgetting to install them, or > jp> running VMs in environments where installing 3rd party software that > jp> needs an internet link is problematic. > jp> > jp> I'd continue to proxy changes back upstream as I've been doing for > jp> some time now. > jp> > jp> There is some precedent for this. Driver(s?) that were once a part of= > jp> the tools have been moved to base already. The VMXNET3 driver is an > jp> example of this. Also, the RC scripts that load the tools and start > jp> the userland daemons run a VMware included binary to check if the > jp> platform is supported by the tools, and just don't start them if it's > jp> an unsupported platform, so there's no danger to just trying to start > jp> them blindly across the default installs. >=20 > if_vmx was one ported from OpenBSD, not from open-vm-tools. VMXNET3 > driver of open-vm-tools was maintained separately and removed > recently. >=20 Ok, thanks for clarifying that. I=E2=80=99d modify my statement to be =E2=80= =9Cfunctionality the tools provided has been moved to base, ala VMXNET3=E2=80= =9D In the bad old days you had to create the VM with an e1000 NIC, install the t= ools. Change rc.conf, shutdown the VM. Change the VM hardware and power it b= ack on. These days you can select VMXNET3 and it just works.=20 > jp> Since emulators/open-vm-tools (the master port to > jp> emulators/open-vm-tools-nox11) depends on X11 and is not a candidate > jp> to include in the base system, I'd like to keep the ability to install= > jp> the package/port for both open-vm-tools and open-vm-tools-nox11 and > jp> let the user select which one is started. >=20 > I personally love to see open-vm-tools in the base system because it > improves user's out-of-the-box experience. As long as it is possible > to install emulators/open-vm-tools to override the stock version, I > see no harmful effect for both users who do not use VMware and ones > who want to use the latest version of open-vm-tools for some reason. >=20 > However, one thing I want to point out is that open-vm-tools is not > under BSDL. LGPL for the userland utilities and libraries, and GPL > for the kernel modules. More specifically, the vmmemctl driver for > FreeBSD is GPL'd, and vmblock is under 2-clause BSDL. Do we accept > GPL'd kernel modules? >=20 > Interestingly, modules for Solaris are under CDDL. When FreeBSD > Foundation visited VMware a while ago, they said GPL (or LGPL) was > chosen for compatibility with Linux kernel and they might be able to > release pre-GPL version of the source code under BSDL because they > wanted vendors/developer communities to maintain open-vm-tools > together. I am not sure if this is still relevant because it was > several years ago, but if we seriously think importing the kernel > drivers and maintaining them actively, asking it again might be worth > doing. >=20 > -- Hiroki I am aware of the licensing issue. VMware is motivated to get the tools into= the base system. They=E2=80=99ll dual license the current code to help faci= litate that. (They want something in return, a CI environment set up so they= can test FreeBSD on commit. Currently I build packages for them manually wh= en they request) I was not aware the Foundation had visited with VMware. It might be worth me= syncing up directly with the Foundation on this. Can you get a meeting sche= duled with the appropriate people on the Foundation side? Thanks, Josh Paetzel FreeBSD - The Power to Serve=