From nobody Mon Jul 20 00:04:25 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3LNZ0BTYz6lsMH; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 00:04:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo49.interia.pl (smtpo49.interia.pl [217.74.67.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3LNY3hNgz4FCV; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 00:04:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=interia.pl header.s=dk header.b=XI+yXasg; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vermaden@interia.pl designates 217.74.67.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vermaden@interia.pl; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=interia.pl Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 02:04:25 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 37.248.201.6 Message-Id: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=dk; t=1784505867; bh=hyF/ljCRfYKcJTQUPUnhTPpOgi3vh0GmWFdVDtluGiw=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=XI+yXasgD5zFyXEE86FZS6MgBl7X08/N06lTdw45mdq+2ROwvTwWahhbRXkJ3x5MI KIZDkLPhiaIVweoSeMZXW2iFcbaKsUsjYfVLplAR2a/hocfNuYidwjmeCB+g5/b0pa CjbeLX+wkyS4F7XBnUO6QRFwVFWJk7K2rz7+oCB4= X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.78 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[interia.pl,none]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.28)[-0.277]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.74.64.0/22:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[interia.pl:s=dk]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(-0.10)[217.74.67.49:from]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; SUSPICIOUS_AUTH_ORIGIN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[interia.pl:+]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[interia.pl:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3LNY3hNgz4FCV X-Spamd-Bar: -- Hi. For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but to underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - this is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep that in mind - now - to the core of the issue ... I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all ALSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but not anymore. Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get broken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE would solve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things. I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into this: % mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=+0.05 ... from MUCH MORE friendly syntax. But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable ... and I can not even tell where they came from ... is it OSS problem? Is is PulseAudio problem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in the logs for audio. Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire.com' account here: - https://mediafire.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4/file ... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a ThinkPad T480 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth as Carlos Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP ... but not anymore. I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our of despair ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have been repeating this over and over again - but its again probably the issue that 'too less' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver/desktop/laptop system. Sorry to disappoint. Regards, vermaden From nobody Mon Jul 20 03:57:36 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3RYM2Pf5z6lBTm for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 03:57:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gperciva@tarsnap.com) Received: from mail.tarsnap.com (mail.tarsnap.com [54.86.246.204]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4h3RYL12frz3VqM for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 03:57:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gperciva@tarsnap.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=tarsnap.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of gperciva@tarsnap.com designates 54.86.246.204 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gperciva@tarsnap.com Received: (qmail 51296 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2026 03:57:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) (127.0.0.1) by mail.tarsnap.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2026 03:57:25 -0000 Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2026 20:57:36 -0700 From: Graham Percival To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-git-weekly@tarsnap.com Cc: Colin Percival Subject: FreeBSD Git Weekly 2026-07-13 to 2026-07-19 Message-ID: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.69 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.994]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[tarsnap.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:54.86.246.204/32]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14618, ipnet:54.86.0.0/16, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[54.86.246.204:from]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3RYL12frz3VqM X-Spamd-Bar: --- Hi all, I'm happy to announce FreeBSD git weekly for 2026-07-13 -- 2026-07-19: https://freebsd-git-weekly.tarsnap.net/2026-07-13.html It's a list of the 134 commits in that week, split into categories. Highlighted commits: - bhyve: add configurable SMBIOS OEM Strings "Highlighted" commits are selected automatically if a commit modifies UPDATING, or if the commit message contains a "Relnotes:" line. If you think that another commit should be highlighted, let me know and I'm happy to make it so. To see all reports: https://freebsd-git-weekly.tarsnap.net/ This work is funded by cperciva@ and Tarsnap Backup Inc. Cheers, - Graham Percival From nobody Mon Jul 20 10:27:44 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3cDR5gh3z6lk2r for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 10:28:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marietto2008@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pl1-x635.google.com (mail-pl1-x635.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::635]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3cDR316Gz46c9 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 10:28:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marietto2008@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-pl1-x635.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-2ced3386430so62658295ad.1 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 03:28:23 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; 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Mon, 20 Jul 2026 03:28:20 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Mario Marietto Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 12:27:44 +0200 X-Gm-Features: AUfX_mxTCyKiSsPrZA_l8GqRDa7BmJYKeXZRSEraKdGVw3iRz8wC81frtuWCsD8 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: vester.thacker@fastmail.fm Cc: vermaden , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000085af870657085d7c" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3cDR316Gz46c9 X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --00000000000085af870657085d7c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah,me too. I feel your frustration. That's also mine. Because I'm trying to fix the audio distorsions coming from the 4 inches display that I want to use in the FreeBSD based phone that I'm building. I'm working with Claude and I'm spending a lot of tokens asking Fable 5 to fix the problems. Report after report,it seems very hard to obtain a clean and robust sound. I imagine how hard it is to do it without using advanced AI. On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 11:55=E2=80=AFAM wrote= : > I understand the frustration behind this report. Audio failures are > difficult because the symptom is simple, a bad sound, while the cause can > exist anywhere from the driver to the application. When the system provid= es > no useful indication of where the failure occurred, debugging becomes > guesswork. > > I have encountered this same class of problem while working on audio > software. Awase started from the same motivation: I wanted an audio syste= m > that I could understand, control, and improve when something went wrong. = It > is intended to become a replacement for existing desktop audio stacks, bu= t > it is still in the early alpha stage. semasound handles audio processing > and playback. audiofs handles audio asset access. The separation is > deliberate because systems are easier to maintain when their > responsibilities and failure boundaries are clear. > > This does not solve the specific FreeBSD regression you describe today. A > new design still has to mature, gain users, and prove itself. However, it > represents one possible response to the larger problem: when existing > solutions become too difficult to debug or modify, building a simpler > system can be a practical path forward. > > The immediate problem remains localization. The important question is not > whether the fault is OSS or PulseAudio in isolation. The important questi= on > is where the failure first appears. The investigation should narrow the > path. Test direct device output. Test through user-space layers. Compare > players. Compare releases. Each result removes another possibility. > > The recording is valuable because it demonstrates that the failure exists= . > It gives developers something concrete to reproduce. The next step is to > gather enough information to identify the responsible component. > > I do not know whether the cause is related to how many developers use > FreeBSD as a desktop system. There may be several contributing factors, > including how desktop issues are prioritized and who takes ownership of > them. I do know that regressions on common hardware deserve attention. A > ThinkPad T480 is not an unusual machine. A desktop operating system depen= ds > on predictable behavior after upgrades. > > The goal is not a system that never fails. That is unrealistic. The goal > is a system where failures leave enough evidence that they can be > understood and fixed. > > -vic > > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2026, at 09:04, vermaden wrote: > > Hi. > > > > For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but > > to underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - > > this is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - > > keep that in mind - now - to the core of the issue ... > > > > I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all > > ALSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but > > not anymore. > > > > Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get > > broken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE > > would solve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related > > things. > > > > I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into thi= s: > > > > % mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05 > > > > ... from MUCH MORE friendly syntax. > > > > But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable ... and I can > > not even tell where they came from ... is it OSS problem? Is is > > PulseAudio problem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in > > the logs for audio. > > > > Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire.com' > > account here: > > - > > > https://mediafire.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4= /file > > > > ... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a ThinkPad > > T480 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth as > > Carlos Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP ... but not anymore. > > > > I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our of > > despair ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have > > been repeating this over and over again - but its again probably the > > issue that 'too less' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily > > driver/desktop/laptop system. > > > > Sorry to disappoint. > > > > Regards, > > vermaden > > --=20 Mario. --00000000000085af870657085d7c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yeah,me too. I feel your frustration. That's also mine= . Because I'm trying to fix the audio distorsions coming from the 4 inc= hes display that I want to use in the FreeBSD based phone that I'm buil= ding. I'm working with Claude and I'm spending a lot of tokens aski= ng Fable 5 to fix the problems. Report after report,it seems very hard to o= btain a clean and robust sound. I imagine how hard it is to do it without u= sing advanced AI.=C2=A0

On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 11:55= =E2=80=AFAM <vester.thacke= r@fastmail.fm> wrote:
I understand the frustration behind this report. Audio failure= s are difficult because the symptom is simple, a bad sound, while the cause= can exist anywhere from the driver to the application. When the system pro= vides no useful indication of where the failure occurred, debugging becomes= guesswork.

I have encountered this same class of problem while working on audio softwa= re. Awase started from the same motivation: I wanted an audio system that I= could understand, control, and improve when something went wrong. It is in= tended to become a replacement for existing desktop audio stacks, but it is= still in the early alpha stage. semasound handles audio processing and pla= yback. audiofs handles audio asset access. The separation is deliberate bec= ause systems are easier to maintain when their responsibilities and failure= boundaries are clear.

This does not solve the specific FreeBSD regression you describe today. A n= ew design still has to mature, gain users, and prove itself. However, it re= presents one possible response to the larger problem: when existing solutio= ns become too difficult to debug or modify, building a simpler system can b= e a practical path forward.

The immediate problem remains localization. The important question is not w= hether the fault is OSS or PulseAudio in isolation. The important question = is where the failure first appears. The investigation should narrow the pat= h. Test direct device output. Test through user-space layers. Compare playe= rs. Compare releases. Each result removes another possibility.

The recording is valuable because it demonstrates that the failure exists. = It gives developers something concrete to reproduce. The next step is to ga= ther enough information to identify the responsible component.

I do not know whether the cause is related to how many developers use FreeB= SD as a desktop system. There may be several contributing factors, includin= g how desktop issues are prioritized and who takes ownership of them. I do = know that regressions on common hardware deserve attention. A ThinkPad T480= is not an unusual machine. A desktop operating system depends on predictab= le behavior after upgrades.

The goal is not a system that never fails. That is unrealistic. The goal is= a system where failures leave enough evidence that they can be understood = and fixed.

-vic


On Mon, Jul 20, 2026, at 09:04, vermaden wrote:
> Hi.
>
> For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but=
> to underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - =
> this is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - <= br> > keep that in mind - now - to the core of the issue ...
>
> I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all =
> ALSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but=
> not anymore.
>
> Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get > broken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE > would solve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related
> things.
>
> I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into th= is:
>
> % mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05
>
> ... from MUCH MORE friendly syntax.
>
> But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable ... an= d I can
> not even tell where they came from ... is it OSS problem? Is is
> PulseAudio problem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in =
> the logs for audio.
>
> Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire.com&= #39;
> account here:
> -
> https://mediafire= .com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4/file
>
> ... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a ThinkPad > T480 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth a= s
> Carlos Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP ... but not any= more.
>
> I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our of
> despair ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have =
> been repeating this over and over again - but its again probably the <= br> > issue that 'too less' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their = daily
> driver/desktop/laptop system.
>
> Sorry to disappoint.
>
> Regards,
> vermaden



--
Ma= rio.
--00000000000085af870657085d7c-- From nobody Mon Jul 20 10:29:59 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3cGh347fz6lkBX for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 10:30:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee) Received: from mail.ketas.si.pri.ee (d004-fea2-0bff-021e-13e8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee [IPv6:2001:7d0:8437:13e8:21e:bff:fea2:d004]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3cGf2jVxz49kK for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 10:30:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=ketas.si.pri.ee header.s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096 header.b=g7vVD0Gs; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee designates 2001:7d0:8437:13e8:21e:bff:fea2:d004 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=ketas.si.pri.ee X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ketas.si.pri.ee; s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096; t=1784543408; bh=fJ9fW/806g5TSv6iZwXOa042Y0ib5SpCChclQYe6eLw=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=g7vVD0GsFponIjXmz3gu5mi+MhfUf8NApOuZSuUW6yYWrtesx8kOQVFU2kmsULw0x byvzM5njxtRdAnsvo8NkBWMvVwLm/2W0FHaN/E7Iu9bGALKQj5Mmoa/c3UB0LkXZxd /iV6wp20orCGoNt+jvQrCquPey828Mr9S5dU63dpu2E7YWDaNR/jBNHgjx+YZErvr/ ncmxSWNfIzVG8larybGlvmgVdpRw4szatRKHJ6CNq03x45VjEO8zoQZuCBz20sW9q7 9+azTgm2sSyg3UrMr1FQtJSgd5bWkFTQBISnBRyQ7unnhN46PeKDtd3TqzS38aCESy prRK08whpudjU50M+x8qw714IpiHS8rM/jcfbEbYhlCxONzENI25c3aY68bno+UAjT BFUJUAguao+SMzViuzwNIWiG2htlyeUozBzJkFKuIX98kBeYSO2TA2s0w3G3Cg6x4F cuytyxqw9OhZ2ip6yCMo0jlACKZHGJkBmxtj0idBsXGFZG9L+l9NQ0cQURbh0Z/2yk NAm/4XPavnvPn7Gzogo9szaXNxr2EKFR4sa0ocycAm9kwZNEg/xwYV0ElNAKHXoNIt XSqGeum8IFyM/BfX6AMsbHM6honXPsmeF/nff2J1qTlP08jdP0PVVCBd2ZN+Eq8TuO CTOVGiz5mwpd+GK8Sv9K4Cj0= X-Passed-Through: http://ketas.si.pri.ee/ X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett X-Passed-Through: http://ketas.si.pri.ee/ Received: from ehlo.thunderbird.net (0115-0000-0000-0000-13c8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee [IPv6:2001:7d0:8437:13c8::115]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.ketas.si.pri.ee (MTA) with ESMTPSA id 988D55DA81B; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 13:30:08 +0300 (EEST) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 13:29:59 +0300 From: Sulev-Madis Silber To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <517030E8-D079-48DD-AE4B-093E93C8F101@ketas.si.pri.ee> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.77 / 15.00]; HFILTER_HOSTNAME_5(3.00)[d004-fea2-0bff-021e-13e8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.974]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[ketas.si.pri.ee,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:7d0:8437:1300::/56]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[ketas.si.pri.ee:s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:3249, ipnet:2001:7d0::/32, country:EE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[ketas.si.pri.ee:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3cGf2jVxz49kK X-Spamd-Bar: / i wonder if it's audio hw being crap in idle mode? if so, devs also have sa= me cursewords to shout=2E just look comments on rtl nic drivers very funnily this audio chip could ALSO (now actually shouting) be rtl i'm not familiar with dac's and sound also, that also happens directly from sound card too? to me it looks as if something is trying to switch (pre)amp to "quiet" mod= e from lack or input but instead this happens and it's only fbsd issue? sure, not many people use fbsd daily=2E which is fun, because nowadays you= can have multiple physical machines=2E each with own os=2E depends on setu= p, quite decent machine could be on verge of being e-waste i don't currently do it anymore=2E but that's because lack of willpower to= properly setup a next laptop=2E previous one broke years ago=2E it was new= old stock t60 which i truly used until it broke somehow internally so once i get my will back, i just use phones (lol) to ssh into fbsd On July 20, 2026 3:04:25 AM GMT+03:00, vermaden wr= ote: >Hi=2E > >For a start lets define some TERMS=2E I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but = to underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - this = is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep that i= n mind - now - to the core of the issue =2E=2E=2E > >I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all ALS= A/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world =2E=2E=2E but n= ot anymore=2E > >Somewhere between 14=2E3-RELEASE and 14=2E4-RELEASE things begin to get b= roken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15=2E1-RELEASE would = solve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things=2E > >I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into this: > >% mixer -f ${DEV} vol=2Evolume=3D+0=2E05 > >=2E=2E=2E from MUCH MORE friendly syntax=2E > >But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable =2E=2E=2E and I c= an not even tell where they came from =2E=2E=2E is it OSS problem? Is is Pu= lseAudio problem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in the log= s for audio=2E > >Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire=2Ecom' acc= ount here: >- https://mediafire=2Ecom/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound= =2Emp4/file > >=2E=2E=2E and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday =2E=2E=2E its a Th= inkPad T480 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth= as Carlos Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP =2E=2E=2E but not anymor= e=2E > >I do not even know what to add here =2E=2E=2E its a message send our of d= espair =2E=2E=2E as newer releases only made these things worse =2E=2E=2E I= have been repeating this over and over again - but its again probably the = issue that 'too less' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver/= desktop/laptop system=2E > >Sorry to disappoint=2E > >Regards, >vermaden > > From nobody Mon Jul 20 10:53:54 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3cpj4n1Hz6llWJ for ; 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Mon, 20 Jul 2026 03:54:31 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <517030E8-D079-48DD-AE4B-093E93C8F101@ketas.si.pri.ee> In-Reply-To: <517030E8-D079-48DD-AE4B-093E93C8F101@ketas.si.pri.ee> From: Mario Marietto Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 12:53:54 +0200 X-Gm-Features: AUfX_mwPlRf0UmK2zYhWExtdZeYWSLlkFgGwCjvilobIVkPOi4WivqnJpHSAFFM Message-ID: Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Sulev-Madis Silber Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001f5cf9065708bb1c" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3cpj2hWZz3FSh X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --0000000000001f5cf9065708bb1c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ---> i wonder if it's audio hw being crap in idle mode? if so, devs also have same cursewords to shout. just look comments on rtl nic drivers Claude says that at code level,Linux uses more sophisticated mechanisms that FreeBSD does not use.... On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 12:31=E2=80=AFPM Sulev-Madis Silber < freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee> wrote: > i wonder if it's audio hw being crap in idle mode? if so, devs also have > same cursewords to shout. just look comments on rtl nic drivers > > very funnily this audio chip could ALSO (now actually shouting) be rtl > > > > i'm not familiar with dac's and sound > > also, that also happens directly from sound card too? > > to me it looks as if something is trying to switch (pre)amp to "quiet" > mode from lack or input but instead this happens > > and it's only fbsd issue? > > sure, not many people use fbsd daily. which is fun, because nowadays you > can have multiple physical machines. each with own os. depends on setup, > quite decent machine could be on verge of being e-waste > > i don't currently do it anymore. but that's because lack of willpower to > properly setup a next laptop. previous one broke years ago. it was new ol= d > stock t60 which i truly used until it broke somehow internally > > so once i get my will back, i just use phones (lol) to ssh into fbsd > > > > On July 20, 2026 3:04:25 AM GMT+03:00, vermaden > wrote: > >Hi. > > > >For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but t= o > underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - this i= s > plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep that in > mind - now - to the core of the issue ... > > > >I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all > ALSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but no= t > anymore. > > > >Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get > broken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE would > solve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things. > > > >I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into this= : > > > >% mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05 > > > >... from MUCH MORE friendly syntax. > > > >But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable ... and I can no= t > even tell where they came from ... is it OSS problem? Is is PulseAudio > problem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in the logs for > audio. > > > >Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire.com' > account here: > >- > https://mediafire.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4= /file > > > >... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a ThinkPad T480 > from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth as Carlos > Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP ... but not anymore. > > > >I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our of despai= r > ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have been > repeating this over and over again - but its again probably the issue tha= t > 'too less' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily > driver/desktop/laptop system. > > > >Sorry to disappoint. > > > >Regards, > >vermaden > > > > > > --=20 Mario. --0000000000001f5cf9065708bb1c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
---> i wonder if it's audio hw being crap in i= dle mode? if so, devs also have same cursewords to shout. just look comments on rtl nic drivers
=
Claude says that at code level,Linux uses more sophisticated= mechanisms that FreeBSD does not use....=C2=A0

On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 12:31=E2=80=AFPM Sulev-Madis Silber <freebsd-current-= freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee> wrote:
i wonder if it's audio hw being crap in i= dle mode? if so, devs also have same cursewords to shout. just look comment= s on rtl nic drivers

very funnily this audio chip could ALSO (now actually shouting) be rtl

<https://www.kimjongrails.com/blog/realtek-the= -crab/>

i'm not familiar with dac's and sound

also, that also happens directly from sound card too?

to me it looks as if something is trying to switch (pre)amp to "quiet&= quot; mode from lack or input but instead this happens

and it's only fbsd issue?

sure, not many people use fbsd daily. which is fun, because nowadays you ca= n have multiple physical machines. each with own os. depends on setup, quit= e decent machine could be on verge of being e-waste

i don't currently do it anymore. but that's because lack of willpow= er to properly setup a next laptop. previous one broke years ago. it was ne= w old stock t60 which i truly used until it broke somehow internally

so once i get my will back, i just use phones (lol) to ssh into fbsd



On July 20, 2026 3:04:25 AM GMT+03:00, vermaden <vermaden@interia.pl> wrote:
>Hi.
>
>For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but = to underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - this = is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep that i= n mind - now - to the core of the issue ...
>
>I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all A= LSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but not a= nymore.
>
>Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get bro= ken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE would solv= e my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things.
>
>I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into thi= s:
>
>% mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05
>
>... from MUCH MORE friendly syntax.
>
>But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable ... and= I can not even tell where they came from ... is it OSS problem? Is is Puls= eAudio problem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in the logs = for audio.
>
>Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire.com&#= 39; account here:
>- https://mediafir= e.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4/file
>
>... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a ThinkPad T48= 0 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth as Carlos= Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP ... but not anymore.
>
>I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our of despa= ir ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have been repea= ting this over and over again - but its again probably the issue that '= too less' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver/desktop/= laptop system.
>
>Sorry to disappoint.
>
>Regards,
>vermaden
>
>



--
Ma= rio.
--0000000000001f5cf9065708bb1c-- From nobody Mon Jul 20 11:35:53 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3dkZ1WLwz6lnxt for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 11:36:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo63.interia.pl (smtpo63.interia.pl [217.74.67.63]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3dkY67dwz3HvP for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 11:36:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 13:35:53 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Sulev-Madis Silber , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org" , rodrigo@osorio.me, vester.thacker@fastmail.fm X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <517030E8-D079-48DD-AE4B-093E93C8F101@ketas.si.pri.ee> References: <517030E8-D079-48DD-AE4B-093E93C8F101@ketas.si.pri.ee> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.2 Message-Id: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=dk; t=1784547358; bh=7hrKwQYgKNvwkeNqtJLUEWlzWq2nFaN0b+Md9cyevPw=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=nWGj80igYJv7279F+zzmThvS718v3QpsFbC/DV27jE47K5HUXXBpYzFbNWWO+tpSp mW6/dlpCskd3QeeH3SBieaxW80QRg1pIxxRVmwNV8f8Ib6Gdryj9HPfGZK3VsfD1zV jjyKc7gfBNjy4Iq0Awla7oD1RDjzeASjBQ034mI4= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3dkY67dwz3HvP X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Hi. > I downloaded freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4 > file but I didn't hear anything, like there is > no audio track or the sound were very faint. > > Cheers, > -- rodrigo I think You are using a player that does not have needed codec support - I just downloaded that file and played it on my FreeBSD system. Players like mpv/vlc/mplayer does play the needed sound. What player You used? > The recording is valuable because it > demonstrates that the failure exists. > It gives developers something concrete > to reproduce. The next step is to gather > enough information to identify the > responsible component. If I can help try to narrow it - if I use PluseAudio for deadbeef player - and start something that also wants to play audio on PluseAudio - then this *booze* is not there. If I use OSS for deadbeef player - and start something that also wants to play audio on PluseAudio - then this *booze* IS there. Something like OSS <-> PulseAudio conflict ... just guessing. > The goal is not a system that never fails. > That is unrealistic. The goal is a system > where failures leave enough evidence that > they can be understood and fixed. Its just these things worked like a charm ... and now they are broken and no one knows why they are broken ... or how to fix them ... or debug them. Look what was possible not that long ago with 12.2 or 14.1: FreeBSD 12.2 Suspend/Resume https://youtu.be/Hhi-8jQuN60 FreeBSD 14.1 Suspend/Resume https://youtu.be/FA23HfuNiA4 That is the reason that I am so sad - that one of the pillars of FreeBSD got so broken ... > Yeah,me too. I feel your frustration. > That's also mine. Because I'm trying to > fix the audio distortions coming from > the 4 inches display that I want to use > in the FreeBSD based phone that I'm > building. I'm working with Claude and > I'm spending a lot of tokens asking > Fable 5 to fix the problems. Report > after report,it seems very hard to > obtain a clean and robust sound. > I imagine how hard it is to do it > without using advanced AI. Yes, AI can be helpful sometimes. > i wonder if it's audio hw being crap in idle mode? Maybe, but the same 'chip' worked earlier on FreeBSD and worked fine. 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charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <5f70832a-a9fc-4cc2-85c9-143690e56da1@rizzo.eng.br> On Sun 19 Jul 14:03, Nilton Jose Rizzo wrote: > Em 19/07/2026 13:49, Baptiste Daroussin escreveu: > > > > Le 18 juillet 2026 23:45:58 GMT+02:00, Nilton Jose Rizzo a écrit : > > > Em 18/07/2026 02:36, Baptiste Daroussin escreveu: > > > > Le 14 juillet 2026 01:42:07 GMT+02:00, Nilton Jose Rizzo a écrit : > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > I upgraded my desktop last weekend and decided to try the new *uvideo*driver from OpenBSD. > > > > > > > > > > When I run |pwcview|, the image is displayed incorrectly: it is horizontally duplicated and shows interlaced lines. > > > > > > > > > > If I switch back to |webcamd|, the webcam works normally. > > > > > > > > > > I also tested it with *Google Meet*and *Jitsi Meet*in Firefox. > > > > > > > > > > On Google Meet, I receive a warning indicating that my webcam is not functioning properly. > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone experienced this issue or have any suggestions on how to troubleshoot it? > > > > > > > > > > My web cam is HD Pro C920 USB > > > > > > > > > > ugen0.2: at usbus0, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH (480Mbps) pwr=ON (500mA) > > > > > > > > > > $ usbconfig -v -d ugen0.2 > > > > > ugen0.2: at usbus0, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH (480Mbps) pwr=ON (500mA) > > > > > ugen0.2.2: uaudio0: > > > > > > > > > >   bLength = 0x0012 > > > > >   bDescriptorType = 0x0001 > > > > >   bcdUSB = 0x0200 > > > > >   bDeviceClass = 0x00ef  > > > > >   bDeviceSubClass = 0x0002 > > > > >   bDeviceProtocol = 0x0001 > > > > >   bMaxPacketSize0 = 0x0040 > > > > >   idVendor = 0x046d > > > > >   idProduct = 0x082d > > > > >   bcdDevice = 0x0011 > > > > >   iManufacturer = 0x0000  > > > > >   iProduct = 0x0002  > > > > >   iSerialNumber = 0x0001  <1BC69C1F> > > > > >   bNumConfigurations = 0x0001 > > > > > > > > > > When uvideo load, show this message > > > > > > > > > > uvideo0 on uhub1 > > > > > uvideo0: on usbus0 > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > uvideo0: 3 format(s), iface_index=1, endpoint=0x81, psize=3060, isoc > > > > > uvideo0: default format: pixfmt=0x56595559, 640x480, max_fbuf=4147200 > > > > > uvideo0: UVC camera on /dev/video0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > try updating UVIDEO_MAX_PU and UVIDEO_MAX_CT from 8 to 32. > > > > > > > > in sys/dev/usb/video/uvideo.c > > > > > > > > best regards, > > > > Bapt > > > I change these values, PU warnings was gone. > > > > > > My Webcam not work fine yet. > > > > > > See this jpeg screenshot from pwcview using default values to fps and resolution (sif). > > > > > > https://imgur.com/a/YG89hK5 > > > > > > > > > ugen0.2: at usbus0 > > > uvideo0 on uhub1 > > > uvideo0: on usbus0 > > > uvideo0: 3 format(s), iface_index=1, endpoint=0x81, psize=3060, isoc > > > uvideo0: default format: pixfmt=0x56595559, 640x480, max_fbuf=4147200 > > > uvideo0: UVC camera on /dev/video0 > > > uaudio0 on uhub1 > > > uaudio0: on usbus0 > > > uaudio0: No playback. > > > uaudio0: Record[0]: 32000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x4ms buffer. (selected) > > > uaudio0: Record[0]: 24000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x4ms buffer. > > > uaudio0: Record[0]: 16000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x4ms buffer. > > > uaudio0: No MIDI sequencer. > > > pcm6 on uaudio0 > > > uaudio0: No HID volume keys found. > > > uvideo0: stream open: nframes=51, psize=3060, maxVideoFrameSize=153600, maxPayloadSize=800, alt=11, isoc > > > uvideo0: stream open: nframes=51, psize=3060, maxVideoFrameSize=153600, maxPayloadSize=800, alt=11, isoc > > > > > > > > > > > on linux it has quirks for this model, I need to implement some. I ll come back with a patch soon > > > > bapt > > I'd be happy to help improve this driver by providing more information about > this camera. Let me know what information would be useful. > > Thank you Baptiste. > > -- > ************************** > * Dr. Nilton Jose Rizzo * > * Engenheiro Eletrônico * > * Doutor pela COPPE/UFRJ * > * Telegram: @njrizzo * > ************************** I have pushed the quirks infrastructure from openbsd, can you try the following patch on top of it? this is quirks I found for your model in linux uvc driver: https://people.freebsd.org/~bapt/0001-uvideo-add-quirks-for-Logitech-C920-webcams.patch Best regards, Bapt From nobody Mon Jul 20 13:59:55 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3hwh1SWdz6m1LR for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 14:00:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Received: from mail-ot1-x32e.google.com (mail-ot1-x32e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3hwg6cFTz3mWT for ; 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Mon, 20 Jul 2026 06:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mutt-hbsd ([97.112.164.127]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 46e09a7af769-7edad91dc3bsm8018094a34.3.2026.07.20.06.59.56 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 20 Jul 2026 06:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 13:59:55 +0000 From: Shawn Webb To: vermaden Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound Message-ID: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD mutt-hbsd 15.1-STABLE-HBSD FreeBSD 15.1-STABLE-HBSD HARDENEDBSD amd64 X-PGP-Key: https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/blob/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc References: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="376x5xgxe24smjeg" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3hwg6cFTz3mWT X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --376x5xgxe24smjeg Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound MIME-Version: 1.0 On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 02:04:25AM +0200, vermaden wrote: > Hi. >=20 > For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but to= underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - this is= plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep that in = mind - now - to the core of the issue ... >=20 > I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all ALS= A/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but not any= more. >=20 > Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get broke= n - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE would solve = my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things. >=20 > I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into this: >=20 > % mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05 >=20 > ... from MUCH MORE friendly syntax. >=20 > But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable ... and I can not= even tell where they came from ... is it OSS problem? Is is PulseAudio pro= blem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in the logs for audio. >=20 > Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire.com' accou= nt here: > - https://mediafire.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.m= p4/file >=20 > ... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a ThinkPad T480 = =66rom 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth as Carlos= Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP ... but not anymore. >=20 > I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our of despair= ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have been repeati= ng this over and over again - but its again probably the issue that 'too le= ss' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver/desktop/laptop sys= tem. >=20 > Sorry to disappoint. I've been experiencing audio issues as well since the recent work started a little while ago (a year? two years? my chronological memory isn't the best.) It's broken bad enough that I now don't use audio on my systems at all. I haven't filed any bug reports, though, because it just hasn't been a priority for me. I've got tons of other systems where audio works fine and it's not really a bother to use those instead of my fbsd/hbsd systems. The only downside is when I want to make sure the YouTube link I'm about to post in random places is really the right one from an audio perspective. Perhaps some day I'll care enough about the problem to actually dig in. But for now, I've got higher priority items on my list to tackle. I just thought I'd provide another anectodal data point with this email. Thanks, --=20 Shawn Webb Cofounder / Security Engineer HardenedBSD Signal Username: shawn_webb.74 Tor-ified Signal: +1 (719) 756-1197 / activist_opsec.27 https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A= 4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc --376x5xgxe24smjeg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJPBAABCAA5FiEEA6TL67gupaZ9nzhT/y5nonf44foFAmpeKb0bFIAAAAAABAAO bWFudTIsMi41KzEuMTIsMiwzAAoJEP8uZ6J3+OH68G8P/A7LHkCTKQ/fZ0k9ZkiY IHP0q7kNCo1gGUahE0+dsMoF9aA0Xj6rZKyG/f1T1M6HKjILFUJ8M8o+PXK4EzFQ EXju/kYuzvdcpZ4Qj/RX00btxrYg2VFqXFdSZsxzBBSuPf49p5wI/KvY43zmSCPR r0aw5U4fwaZ/JYdIlDftwQlCFWH5hKqdh6J11RR5+JlQjql7AeK71PXz9f8ZWUil Bv7ZZIL8iAe95EQrcIChBkoxv9e8j5uhc9wsRCCvF3uXZOJrKOtjpm+tR9EgwxRC AxOu4HxuUAvZHy4S5mjkVpRAruMjjChP/JXZC3IxNwfD0KSvQ7hYXodoS/fqrFWk kvvIiQZTgicDroKuHQarbgUI9VMvRIorgZQv3HEvQJMFl1SCEP7EajaiDx7ZriIE fbsT9lC5Iyu8RdRefa38mEpRklBAQk0noPUA5TSMqbnnR/18a+EfCfgAO4qDcep4 ISFR1Iq5WuwDtbj73KCOgVFizWq7DdH4YU1Qn4NerA2Cy2StfknxZV6emaYRT+2B RDvoAfevBQ5QbGkdBbo06JPrkLCEBUiOUC9l1HYPptkMXrrWJb76h0sTJKXLh/N3 vPMDrxK1MHEw+BqLaPs4bdCPCg8MEt3oRMHwbkwJFMqHA0kuf5Z8l2hucKvoPLeu 4JtOaDl4ZWY+b3+WVmILZOeu =sja+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --376x5xgxe24smjeg-- From nobody Mon Jul 20 14:28:34 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3jYj6Crlz6m3K6 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 14:28:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rodrigo@osorio.me) Received: from smtp.osorio.me (mvd.osorio.me [37.187.111.94]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3jYj07T8z3s24 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 14:28:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rodrigo@osorio.me) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=osorio.me; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rodrigo@osorio.me designates 37.187.111.94 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rodrigo@osorio.me Received: from [192.168.66.76] (lfbn-idf1-1-1426-86.w90-90.abo.wanadoo.fr [90.90.113.86]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osorio.me (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 63A1A15E7C3 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 14:59:31 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 16:28:34 +0200 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound Content-Language: en-US To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <517030E8-D079-48DD-AE4B-093E93C8F101@ketas.si.pri.ee> From: Rodrigo Osorio In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.57 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.93)[0.931]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[osorio.me,none]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:37.187.111.94/32]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16276, ipnet:37.187.0.0/16, country:FR]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[rodrigo]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3jYj07T8z3s24 X-Spamd-Bar: - Le 20/07/26 à 13:35, vermaden a écrit : > Hi. > >> I downloaded freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4 >> file but I didn't hear anything, like there is >> no audio track or the sound were very faint. >> >> Cheers, >> -- rodrigo > I think You are using a player that does not have needed codec support - I just downloaded that file and played it on my FreeBSD system. Players like mpv/vlc/mplayer does play the needed sound. What player You used? I tried both mplayer and vlc without success (following the output provided by mplayer) I don't usually have problems with sound, and I'm able to play other video & audio files on my FreeBSD system, but for some reasons, not for this one. FreeBSD mypc 15.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 15.1-RELEASE releng/15.1-n283562-96841ea08dcf GENERIC amd64 mplayer Downloads/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4 MPlayer SVN-r38685-snapshot-19.1.7 (C) 2000-2026 MPlayer Team Playing Downloads/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp4. libavformat version 62.12.102 (external) libavformat file format detected. [mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2 @ 0x83c184cfa88]Protocol name not provided, cannot determine if input is local or a network protocol, buffers and access patterns cannot be configured optimally without knowing the protocol [lavf] stream 0: video (h264), -vid 0 [lavf] stream 1: audio (aac), -aid 0, -alang und VIDEO:  [H264]  848x478  24bpp  60.000 fps  1451.2 kbps (177.2 kbyte/s) ========================================================================== Opening video decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg's libavcodec codec family libavcodec version 62.28.102 (external) Selected video codec: [ffh264] vfm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg H.264) ========================================================================== Clip info:  major_brand: mp42  minor_version: 0  compatible_brands: mp42isom Load subtitles in Downloads/ ========================================================================== Opening audio decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg/libavcodec audio decoders AUDIO: 48000 Hz, 2 ch, floatle, 255.8 kbit/8.33% (ratio: 31976->384000) Selected audio codec: [ffaac] afm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg AAC (MPEG-2/MPEG-4 Audio)) ========================================================================== AO: [oss] 48000Hz 2ch floatle (4 bytes per sample) Starting playback... Movie-Aspect is undefined - no prescaling applied. VO: [xv] 848x478 => 848x478 Planar YV12 A:  39.8 V:  39.8 A-V: -0.010 ct:  0.134   0/  0 18%  6%  1.1% 0 0 Exiting... (End of file) > > > >> The recording is valuable because it >> demonstrates that the failure exists. >> It gives developers something concrete >> to reproduce. The next step is to gather >> enough information to identify the >> responsible component. > If I can help try to narrow it - if I use PluseAudio for deadbeef player - and start something that also wants to play audio on PluseAudio - then this *booze* is not there. > > If I use OSS for deadbeef player - and start something that also wants to play audio on PluseAudio - then this *booze* IS there. > > Something like OSS <-> PulseAudio conflict ... just guessing. > > > >> The goal is not a system that never fails. >> That is unrealistic. The goal is a system >> where failures leave enough evidence that >> they can be understood and fixed. > Its just these things worked like a charm ... and now they are broken and no one knows why they are broken ... or how to fix them ... or debug them. > > Look what was possible not that long ago with 12.2 or 14.1: > > FreeBSD 12.2 Suspend/Resume > https://youtu.be/Hhi-8jQuN60 > > FreeBSD 14.1 Suspend/Resume > https://youtu.be/FA23HfuNiA4 > > That is the reason that I am so sad - that one of the pillars of FreeBSD got so broken ... > > > >> Yeah,me too. I feel your frustration. >> That's also mine. Because I'm trying to >> fix the audio distortions coming from >> the 4 inches display that I want to use >> in the FreeBSD based phone that I'm >> building. I'm working with Claude and >> I'm spending a lot of tokens asking >> Fable 5 to fix the problems. Report >> after report,it seems very hard to >> obtain a clean and robust sound. >> I imagine how hard it is to do it >> without using advanced AI. > Yes, AI can be helpful sometimes. > > > >> i wonder if it's audio hw being crap in idle mode? > Maybe, but the same 'chip' worked earlier on FreeBSD and worked fine. > > > > Regards, > vermaden > > > > > From nobody Mon Jul 20 15:09:22 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3kT60nHsz6m5Kv for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 15:09:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from damjan.jov@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com (mail-wr1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3kT5728Sz3x8d for ; 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Mon, 20 Jul 2026 08:09:34 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Damjan Jovanovic Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 17:09:22 +0200 X-Gm-Features: AUfX_mzqOA7laXybhf3m1f3COfq8vOpLHNpTFP1Q1bKDeISPZvdgBgoMBADjlwM Message-ID: Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: vermaden Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004917fa06570c4b73" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3kT5728Sz3x8d X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --0000000000004917fa06570c4b73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 2:05=E2=80=AFAM vermaden wrot= e: > Hi. > > For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but to > underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - this i= s > plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep that in > mind - now - to the core of the issue ... > > I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all > ALSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but no= t > anymore. > > Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get broke= n > - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE would solve = my > issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things. > A regression test ("git bisect") would be very helpful in isolating this regression. I would do one, but my sound is perfect, it needs to be done by someone with sound problems. Also only 15 commits to sys/dev/sound exist between the merge base of 14.3 and 14.4: $ git merge-base release/14.3.0 release/14.4.0 ad1f2e80c8324716e80aa9d2955f42e68cc66308 $ git log ad1f2e80c8324716e80aa9d2955f42e68cc66308..release/14.4.0 sys/dev/sound | grep ^commit | wc -l 15 so the bug is probably in one of those. --0000000000004917fa06570c4b73 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jul 20,= 2026 at 2:05=E2=80=AFAM vermaden <vermaden@interia.pl> wrote:
Hi.

For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but to u= nderline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - this is p= lain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep that in mi= nd - now - to the core of the issue ...

I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all ALSA/= PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but not anymo= re.

Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get broken = - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE would solve my= issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things.

A regression test ("git bisect") would be very he= lpful in isolating this regression. I would do one, but my sound is perfect= , it needs to be done by someone with sound problems.

Also only 15 commits to sys/dev/sound exist between the me= rge base of 14.3 and 14.4:

$ git merg= e-base release/14.3.0 release/14.4.0
ad1f2e80c8324716e80aa9d2955f42e68cc= 66308
$ git log ad1f2= e80c8324716e80aa9d2955f42e68cc66308..release/14.4.0=C2=A0 sys/dev/sound | g= rep ^commit | wc -l
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 15

so the bug is probably in one of those.
--0000000000004917fa06570c4b73-- From nobody Mon Jul 20 15:14:27 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3kZm5mlbz6m5xD; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 15:14:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo75.interia.pl (smtpo75.interia.pl [217.74.67.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3kZm3Dntz41bN; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 15:14:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 17:14:27 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: np , "stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.2 Message-Id: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=dk; t=1784560471; bh=vTGdeHC2l/kwr4PnKpHuCzkBvKt1KtUFNhUpEVryzqI=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=RkVoGPuVWBR4cMufDW03fY/xOL4DnSu/Dkv8HJq5HMdLeGHqZ+1rKk0rSiUrTx4tG vhHxfxNkTKMyGmHdHUwSP02Mb6oP8hWLEqTnGUMKaE1YSn3YXcIdS3dAsJoaakEDqq ErpZKNn/q2LJ9FIIfII7vsaDESEtDoh+c8LtCCAA= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3kZm3Dntz41bN X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- > Hi, afaik there is a hudge rework of the > sound subsystem in progress, sponsored > by the FreeBSD foundation. But this should > have been merged in one commit and not > in small steps, because changes seem deep. I do not have anything against that rework ... it should just stay in FreeBSD-CURRENT line as long as its not ready to be used in production - I would even understand if if would be 'forced' into STABLE/RELEASE but only with the right tools for users/sysadmins to actually CATCH these issues and report them - so they can be fixed properly - but not - nothing like that happens - everything is pushed into STABLE and then as a consequence into RELEASE - hoping that maybe in several years the next commits fill fix it ... or not. When FreeBSD project abandoned the POLA principle? Regards, vermaden From nobody Mon Jul 20 15:19:18 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3kh95T79z6m6WV for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 15:19:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo75.interia.pl (smtpo75.interia.pl [217.74.67.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3kh94L2gz45XM for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 15:19:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 17:19:18 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Rodrigo Osorio , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: <517030E8-D079-48DD-AE4B-093E93C8F101@ketas.si.pri.ee> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.2 Message-Id: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=dk; t=1784560760; bh=RHyOnbJAiTL78YB31bcwTlC4wKAeOvtG7OBeXlgedWw=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=jmRCjFd28i3lycV69wfXvcRhNgPxjWrtboI2Jk2H5jMG9yE9cu1Vv7vhTxnptb2hq Mq9GOmfakUKZDAQp6kDtLxSpgxDp2uUvX0WepsCJTVPcDupIFR+qvGshdIg2vYL5Si a6EPpNwmNoSQpH14oG38QV1nL8NBTpVhweA1oh68= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3kh94L2gz45XM X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- > I tried both mplayer and vlc without success > (following the output provided by mplayer) > I don't usually have problems with sound, > and I'm able to play other video & audio files > on my FreeBSD system, but for some reasons, > not for this one. This is just audio in MP3 format from that recording: https://mediafire.com/file/v3wvg4rqn2srrw6/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.mp3/file To play existing MP4 file along with this audio MP3 sound You can use mpv(1) for example: % mpv video.mp4 --audio-file=audio.mp3 Regards, vermaden From nobody Mon Jul 20 15:33:09 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3l0D5k2bz6m7vp; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 15:33:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo63.interia.pl (smtpo63.interia.pl [217.74.67.63]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3l0D23HTz46nT; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 15:33:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 17:33:09 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Shawn Webb Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.2 Message-Id: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=dk; t=1784561593; bh=QfXbV8HL8tCa5hZdZkseRnZqogVtJM6rgSRbjAHSJ7g=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=U0/7zKKc8/v5c/8L5YaWuNImT+n16QU9MBS6ROuzes+PpC7h/1QjnKyxhZx7Ij6z/ kg/D6mwoWzoPq2/CRNrfkCWMd4I0GAo8kjE7iKsbKLdW9j4ZXBPpI3M0cmqKnzEE8q wXQNOp3//s+HuqVBlNltBJYDIyqYD/VR+9QRNGaI= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3l0D23HTz46nT X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- > I've been experiencing audio issues as well > since the recent work started a little while ago > > (...) > > It's broken bad enough that I now don't use > audio on my systems at all. Sadly this is the best summary so far ... 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charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: On Mon 20 Jul 14:24, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > On Sun 19 Jul 14:03, Nilton Jose Rizzo wrote: > > Em 19/07/2026 13:49, Baptiste Daroussin escreveu: > > > > > > Le 18 juillet 2026 23:45:58 GMT+02:00, Nilton Jose Rizzo a écrit : > > > > Em 18/07/2026 02:36, Baptiste Daroussin escreveu: > > > > > Le 14 juillet 2026 01:42:07 GMT+02:00, Nilton Jose Rizzo a écrit : > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > I upgraded my desktop last weekend and decided to try the new *uvideo*driver from OpenBSD. > > > > > > > > > > > > When I run |pwcview|, the image is displayed incorrectly: it is horizontally duplicated and shows interlaced lines. > > > > > > > > > > > > If I switch back to |webcamd|, the webcam works normally. > > > > > > > > > > > > I also tested it with *Google Meet*and *Jitsi Meet*in Firefox. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Google Meet, I receive a warning indicating that my webcam is not functioning properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone experienced this issue or have any suggestions on how to troubleshoot it? > > > > > > > > > > > > My web cam is HD Pro C920 USB > > > > > > > > > > > > ugen0.2: at usbus0, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH (480Mbps) pwr=ON (500mA) > > > > > > > > > > > > $ usbconfig -v -d ugen0.2 > > > > > > ugen0.2: at usbus0, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH (480Mbps) pwr=ON (500mA) > > > > > > ugen0.2.2: uaudio0: > > > > > > > > > > > >   bLength = 0x0012 > > > > > >   bDescriptorType = 0x0001 > > > > > >   bcdUSB = 0x0200 > > > > > >   bDeviceClass = 0x00ef  > > > > > >   bDeviceSubClass = 0x0002 > > > > > >   bDeviceProtocol = 0x0001 > > > > > >   bMaxPacketSize0 = 0x0040 > > > > > >   idVendor = 0x046d > > > > > >   idProduct = 0x082d > > > > > >   bcdDevice = 0x0011 > > > > > >   iManufacturer = 0x0000  > > > > > >   iProduct = 0x0002  > > > > > >   iSerialNumber = 0x0001  <1BC69C1F> > > > > > >   bNumConfigurations = 0x0001 > > > > > > > > > > > > When uvideo load, show this message > > > > > > > > > > > > uvideo0 on uhub1 > > > > > > uvideo0: on usbus0 > > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > > uvideo0: too many PU descriptors found! > > > > > > uvideo0: 3 format(s), iface_index=1, endpoint=0x81, psize=3060, isoc > > > > > > uvideo0: default format: pixfmt=0x56595559, 640x480, max_fbuf=4147200 > > > > > > uvideo0: UVC camera on /dev/video0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > try updating UVIDEO_MAX_PU and UVIDEO_MAX_CT from 8 to 32. > > > > > > > > > > in sys/dev/usb/video/uvideo.c > > > > > > > > > > best regards, > > > > > Bapt > > > > I change these values, PU warnings was gone. > > > > > > > > My Webcam not work fine yet. > > > > > > > > See this jpeg screenshot from pwcview using default values to fps and resolution (sif). > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/a/YG89hK5 > > > > > > > > > > > > ugen0.2: at usbus0 > > > > uvideo0 on uhub1 > > > > uvideo0: on usbus0 > > > > uvideo0: 3 format(s), iface_index=1, endpoint=0x81, psize=3060, isoc > > > > uvideo0: default format: pixfmt=0x56595559, 640x480, max_fbuf=4147200 > > > > uvideo0: UVC camera on /dev/video0 > > > > uaudio0 on uhub1 > > > > uaudio0: on usbus0 > > > > uaudio0: No playback. > > > > uaudio0: Record[0]: 32000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x4ms buffer. (selected) > > > > uaudio0: Record[0]: 24000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x4ms buffer. > > > > uaudio0: Record[0]: 16000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x4ms buffer. > > > > uaudio0: No MIDI sequencer. > > > > pcm6 on uaudio0 > > > > uaudio0: No HID volume keys found. > > > > uvideo0: stream open: nframes=51, psize=3060, maxVideoFrameSize=153600, maxPayloadSize=800, alt=11, isoc > > > > uvideo0: stream open: nframes=51, psize=3060, maxVideoFrameSize=153600, maxPayloadSize=800, alt=11, isoc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on linux it has quirks for this model, I need to implement some. I ll come back with a patch soon > > > > > > bapt > > > > I'd be happy to help improve this driver by providing more information about > > this camera. Let me know what information would be useful. > > > > Thank you Baptiste. > > > > -- > > ************************** > > * Dr. Nilton Jose Rizzo * > > * Engenheiro Eletrônico * > > * Doutor pela COPPE/UFRJ * > > * Telegram: @njrizzo * > > ************************** > > I have pushed the quirks infrastructure from openbsd, can you try the following > patch on top of it? this is quirks I found for your model in linux uvc driver: > > https://people.freebsd.org/~bapt/0001-uvideo-add-quirks-for-Logitech-C920-webcams.patch > > Best regards, > Bapt > Actually try this version of the patch: https://bapt.nours.eu/0001-uvideo-add-quirks-for-Logitech-C920-webcams.patch Best regards, Bapt From nobody Mon Jul 20 17:27:46 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3nXX0FhFz6mGmN for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 17:27:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm1-x336.google.com (mail-wm1-x336.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::336]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3nXW4vWwz3S5H for ; 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Mon, 20 Jul 2026 10:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rimwks.local ([2001:470:1f1b:4dc:625:e87e:9477:e5b3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-495499a5847sm214517145e9.2.2026.07.20.10.27.48 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 20 Jul 2026 10:27:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 20:27:46 +0300 To: vermaden Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound Message-ID: <20260720202746.45869b21@rimwks.local> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.4.0 (GTK 3.24.52; amd64-portbld-freebsd15.1) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3nXW4vWwz3S5H X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 02:04:25 +0200 vermaden wrote: > I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into > this: > > % mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=+0.05 Just use gtk-mixer, avail in ports. In recent years, I haven't noticed any bugs in the operation of the OSS. From nobody Mon Jul 20 17:38:51 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3nnG59dmz6mHsd; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 17:38:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo63.interia.pl (smtpo63.interia.pl [217.74.67.63]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3nnF45V3z3Y0k; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 17:38:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=interia.pl header.s=dk header.b=Awn0EHHR; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vermaden@interia.pl designates 217.74.67.63 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vermaden@interia.pl; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=interia.pl Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 19:38:51 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Rozhuk Ivan Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <20260720202746.45869b21@rimwks.local> References: <20260720202746.45869b21@rimwks.local> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.2 Message-Id: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=dk; t=1784569134; bh=jddCrGwv11v9yXMKg2Ucazow5PV1ANze6sHcxt7Nwbw=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Awn0EHHRCWN71ad2ee9PAMzLzVYLBJvMTA2kPWNdSvVolPMbpezQ19D3iL6VNb2O7 oP/sPuxGgcur4JwB9F/qkrQ10wRSjEmJrM+1wuYJ09EwVXyFN7UCqhg/yavN41ZzIS VAQYTA/VhwlZY9fb+DvFbpOiobYvQg/sr+tiHPy4= X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.08 / 15.00]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.996]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.981]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[interia.pl,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.74.64.0/22]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(-0.20)[217.74.67.63:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[interia.pl:s=dk]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; SUSPICIOUS_AUTH_ORIGIN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[interia.pl:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[interia.pl:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3nnF45V3z3Y0k X-Spamd-Bar: -- > > I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into > > this: > > > > % mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=+0.05 > > Just use gtk-mixer, avail in ports. > > In recent years, I haven't noticed any bugs > in the operation of the OSS. I do it by scripts anyway ... but I needed to rewrite all my scripts because of these changes ... and this change in syntax was bad from at least three perspectives: 1. It happened in 'point' release (like from .2 to .3) - not in new major release - breaking stuff for EVERYONE. 2. It happened without any reason - the tool could do the same with old syntax underneath - the new syntax does not introduce anything new - it just has different syntax. 3. As FreeBSD (at least up to some time ago) cherished the POLA principle WHY the old syntax could not been also kept and accepted? ... and yes - I also think that 'gtk-mixer' works well - so is 'dsbmixer' tool. Regards, vermaden From nobody Mon Jul 20 17:59:20 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3pF127RKz6QHZ8 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 17:59:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mgrooms@shrew.net) Received: from mx2.shrew.net (mx2.shrew.net [204.27.62.58]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3pF00Ph1z3dVj for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 17:59:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mgrooms@shrew.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=shrew.net header.s=default header.b=F4vYfZWI; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mgrooms@shrew.net designates 204.27.62.58 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mgrooms@shrew.net; dmarc=none Received: from mail.shrew.net (mail1.shrew.prv [10.26.2.18]) by mx2.shrew.net (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTP id 66KHxKEV021868 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 12:59:21 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from mgrooms@shrew.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=shrew.net; s=default; t=1784570361; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=3BiYPEOMHThjoehqJyKyl+jRm9HC/6kYy/PxQIL7kZs=; b=F4vYfZWIBLfRuuoo28mAX5SdHKcUiNxiZ41WGWHYPDYqfeATzK+FkbfcwDvJT2gVOss5rz aVMX6EgUmnbrjvg/94RzYc7xHtlOZYRhJdxxqefSNa5BVYJspwlisaAOq7DBMdSuviknmo 39v1vQNwCqaDUar6L9FrG2c+WOlupVZe8ZlAHXQ9JrCPzGlB6MitEdoOGs1a5H4d/pX7iQ YUhSxqyLA1SQaETTzUT++oWfKsBxQjRVjkZrpMvF+a7w3kqI/AEcKZSL5zjeJI81KDmRHf YaFKnzD1UZt+ac6iM8Uis6Fs9rrQjTZIjDQBDZn34uh2WIoPjP42Dikp/8VLOA== Received: from [10.22.200.32] (unknown [136.60.75.165]) by mail.shrew.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DC13B3AB05 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 12:59:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 12:59:20 -0500 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20260720202746.45869b21@rimwks.local> Content-Language: en-US From: Matthew Grooms In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.50 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[shrew.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:19969, ipnet:204.27.56.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[shrew.net]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[shrew.net:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3pF00Ph1z3dVj X-Spamd-Bar: --- On 7/20/26 12:38, vermaden wrote: >>> I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into >>> this: >>> >>> % mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=+0.05 >> Just use gtk-mixer, avail in ports. >> >> In recent years, I haven't noticed any bugs >> in the operation of the OSS. > I do it by scripts anyway ... but I needed to rewrite all my scripts because of these changes ... and this change in syntax was bad from at least three perspectives: > > 1. It happened in 'point' release (like from .2 to .3) - not in new major release - breaking stuff for EVERYONE. > > 2. It happened without any reason - the tool could do the same with old syntax underneath - the new syntax does not introduce anything new - it just has different syntax. > > 3. As FreeBSD (at least up to some time ago) cherished the POLA principle WHY the old syntax could not been also kept and accepted? > > ... and yes - I also think that 'gtk-mixer' works well - so is 'dsbmixer' tool. It offered something new to me: Confusion. In the past, I'd need to fiddle with the mixer once a year and it was more or less obvious how it worked. The last time, I just gave up. -Matthew From nobody Mon Jul 20 18:21:47 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3pkw5nhfz6QKSH for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 18:22:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-f181.google.com (mail-qk1-f181.google.com [209.85.222.181]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3pkw14fZz3kV5 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 18:22:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-qk1-f181.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-92e6391b114so562695285a.3 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 11:22:00 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1784571719; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20260327; b=rrzZBeOq0v3718QJwDrfHbMCcMP5AgfHj4eBlETQWDdwTnthygPpyCkwbVF7iWQPuU bykOfjDylKzG3OSKd5PeTJCpErPUCncVcBzGs5xHYQprvkbEcEz28YPUmvI79G//k2lD jAE2P4K44RVqJtU1GsBx9V20t+94HyICi8h5GUb4DK+DKegkMrFtvmXKMkEpN2TYs89x WAKvz/f1j+o1ryfDb8Oljdw7m+/GvAcViKLb5ZmWPnVfBJxqvplKIf7j/K4ToSuI+kSN +SI5y8Vjp9CpPCDGvs9u6q9DEBfvK40SOJxEhb35csAZYtTN8W5xG7cwu26eERieC9QD WCGQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20260327; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version; bh=XD9W4DnbjLkAKSLIwaj28N5yZsaXIRj/55di6rGQJyA=; fh=T2nB3YrGEra5UOH/oAgoyLd1AVEMFyHPAZm5tuiZgxY=; b=i7LUkkoUPYqyWHHa5zTavOCSedsb/vTxenGb/GHnB4ifNBGGdmbUZhm3nVC3oCJsdl Y448Q/pzl8entjvZBwDMq0MIWzFs0LzRt3P8FdoSdEg0ohyCdswYzDQ9EfDM1JbUeJc7 7vE+8YJVLq11+KHBt069ZXF7iigCwdKssE0LRVEAY2vL7EaTkU8cRpGfJP4acqfr0ccu cibslkUSdoK/4v7L6noLMNMwECd5b0A3Wdsw1ef4+rn4QDZWbMc1NWBNtS32nmKq8a/S ICaqEi8odIuS8T9cu87JsOGyaNVXNhowWncwGaaHFHbFJtqY1EJ7IYGYO0/obNqOhURJ T8AA==; darn=freebsd.org ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20251104; t=1784571719; x=1785176519; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:cc:to:subject:message-id :date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-gg :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to :content-type; bh=XD9W4DnbjLkAKSLIwaj28N5yZsaXIRj/55di6rGQJyA=; b=fhXd/1xKlw4wjz8lynanBkWHCNZKf/awfekNnCA7JZzBTuMVQ572G/ZVsaZEEA+e8S XFGIQaM1uwXzGMuENAv/CF3U7Nl3zTuECimkYMWJtnZwQcLYuHMmqKMIohvtc2DgrqtY kPjBSCpEGdH2YbFV2h1mP+biS8FiCb7eVYXPf77qmhjtGugfMuCljkue3LeZ+JG4Xx4u Tan3B/vfY5uHNXjEZrfBrASlDijXnUGtWIGDWrKDPcglIhMMCjY6Cg322G0LUJUSvCE6 TZX/PYYvyPfJc+n2vWgcAkYSwKnEdBEyb/Ov+QYIuc3wDa7ndrR2nCCVt16M/KnoX0Iv Hing== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AHgh+RpXHrZIf7Fxp/Rcu1twykG8L1kaHw/9+doEYph/9RGcVoHEfmBxVU4F2Z8iz/E2kC63MuBVvGraESW0VzitBKU=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzDOCV7824cLIM6fc3QaT+IhVh2v9iBwLOMjyO384C1lNChEUJh mk58ROeLxOxS4QWQRego0L0r96eQgG3d7RdqrfqYuLy2v1GEcUW9xhM+5pH+6ko9mtwEmW0WZ+j rGSUr/m2swAO2TgZoTGMG/r9zssD9CiARNg== X-Gm-Gg: AfdE7clWRaUt9d4tHePGa/4kEghe20E7yuZE4Mbb3YRqX0nOCbbQ+3jvnOAFEvNja9Y FKnONTWeysXAVq8qKkEO8ZO5xJpNlVxIVW+fI2hiDNUkxJlim39XhhY1w2e7RHSNO3c0NL7tfYp hIsCM2C5imasIlgex3F0mEm2A2jY5vJjH8iI026spQG346Zs8RdFqUmRatlU9r2V6juKSo/UAgb GvP+kdTqAEOx31JBHB0RxRuxk5yA7/tWZ+luMFNYuMS3PfMV6hwFJvDcqqUDpl7sE9aFHIdnKoN qhRwEWKQMU0+XWFTGdEv1BgRL+rxvGzN9+hM7sCcklKewRkCTTzFoPe1jwI5d8Iee946YC5X+ZN ksnzabQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4012:b0:930:9fdd:bb5e with SMTP id af79cd13be357-930b419d323mr1510000685a.46.1784571718610; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 11:21:58 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Adrian Chadd Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 11:21:47 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AUfX_mwiTLKPd_pCze1F30IevthGDTVsXmoJnSnRACkrQI0578GTZFfe6rTYbkY Message-ID: Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Shawn Webb Cc: vermaden , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3pkw14fZz3kV5 X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- y'all! please file bugs. like, whenever i have an audio problem i fire off a bug and then i poke christos on IRC and we figure it out. I have like 11 laptops running freebsd-16 dating back to a T420 and early macbook air laptops. I haven't got anything earlier as they start being i386 and not amd64. Audio works on all of them just fine. -adrian On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 at 07:01, Shawn Webb wrote= : > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 02:04:25AM +0200, vermaden wrote: > > Hi. > > > > For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but = to underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - this = is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep that i= n mind - now - to the core of the issue ... > > > > I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all A= LSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but not a= nymore. > > > > Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get bro= ken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE would solv= e my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things. > > > > I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into thi= s: > > > > % mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05 > > > > ... from MUCH MORE friendly syntax. > > > > But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable ... and I can n= ot even tell where they came from ... is it OSS problem? Is is PulseAudio p= roblem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in the logs for audi= o. > > > > Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire.com' acc= ount here: > > - https://mediafire.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound= .mp4/file > > > > ... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a ThinkPad T48= 0 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth as Carlos= Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP ... but not anymore. > > > > I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our of despa= ir ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have been repea= ting this over and over again - but its again probably the issue that 'too = less' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver/desktop/laptop s= ystem. > > > > Sorry to disappoint. > > I've been experiencing audio issues as well since the recent work > started a little while ago (a year? two years? my chronological memory > isn't the best.) > > It's broken bad enough that I now don't use audio on my systems at > all. I haven't filed any bug reports, though, because it just hasn't > been a priority for me. I've got tons of other systems where audio > works fine and it's not really a bother to use those instead of my > fbsd/hbsd systems. > > The only downside is when I want to make sure the YouTube link I'm > about to post in random places is really the right one from an audio > perspective. > > Perhaps some day I'll care enough about the problem to actually dig > in. But for now, I've got higher priority items on my list to tackle. > I just thought I'd provide another anectodal data point with this > email. > > Thanks, > > -- > Shawn Webb > Cofounder / Security Engineer > HardenedBSD > > Signal Username: shawn_webb.74 > Tor-ified Signal: +1 (719) 756-1197 / activist_opsec.27 > https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/0= 3A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc From nobody Mon Jul 20 20:49:35 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3t1L0h30z6dPjx for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 20:49:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm1-x335.google.com (mail-wm1-x335.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::335]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3t1K5p07z44fW for ; 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Mon, 20 Jul 2026 13:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rimwks.local ([2001:470:1f1b:4dc:625:e87e:9477:e5b3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-49563969482sm84671585e9.3.2026.07.20.13.49.37 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 20 Jul 2026 13:49:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 23:49:35 +0300 To: vermaden Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound Message-ID: <20260720234935.6765e65c@rimwks.local> In-Reply-To: References: <20260720202746.45869b21@rimwks.local> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.4.0 (GTK 3.24.52; amd64-portbld-freebsd15.1) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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Mon, 20 Jul 2026 21:07:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo63.interia.pl (smtpo63.interia.pl [217.74.67.63]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3tQN4phlz4Hb8; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 21:07:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=interia.pl header.s=dk header.b=D4BJV3FA; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vermaden@interia.pl designates 217.74.67.63 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vermaden@interia.pl; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=interia.pl Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 23:07:50 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Rozhuk Ivan Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <20260720234935.6765e65c@rimwks.local> References: <20260720202746.45869b21@rimwks.local> <20260720234935.6765e65c@rimwks.local> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.2 Message-Id: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[interia.pl:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[interia.pl:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3tQN4phlz4Hb8 X-Spamd-Bar: / > I think you can easily turn the old mixer > into a port and keep using it :) Its not about mixer(1) tool - I already ported all my scripts to 'new' syntax - its about all these *boozing* sounds that are not possible to avoid while just using FreeBSD as a desktop/laptop system - just playing music, watching some movie on a page or a live stream. Regards, vermaden From nobody Mon Jul 20 21:13:16 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h3tXd2VMNz6dRT8 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 21:13:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Received: from mail-oo1-xc34.google.com (mail-oo1-xc34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c34]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h3tXc6pr1z4Lsl for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 21:13:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-oo1-xc34.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-6a38e41d0b5so2068346eaf.1 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 14:13:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Mon, 20 Jul 2026 14:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mutt-hbsd ([97.112.164.127]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 586e51a60fabf-4568e748463sm9788342fac.17.2026.07.20.14.13.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 20 Jul 2026 14:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 21:13:16 +0000 From: Shawn Webb To: Adrian Chadd Cc: vermaden , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound Message-ID: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD mutt-hbsd 15.1-STABLE-HBSD FreeBSD 15.1-STABLE-HBSD HARDENEDBSD amd64 X-PGP-Key: https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/blob/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc References: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3zobc5fyufujjvzb" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h3tXc6pr1z4Lsl X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --3zobc5fyufujjvzb Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound MIME-Version: 1.0 I was hoping to submit a few bugs, but ${LIFE} keeps me sufficiently busy these days. ;-) If I can open up some spare time, I'll take a deeper look. Just been really low priority for me, and the lack of bug reports shows. I suspect a couple HardenedBSD features might be getting in the way, most notably our notion of untrusted kernel modules. I need to do some extra debugging (that FreeBSD users would normally not have to do) beforehand so I don't submit a bug report not applicable to FreeBSD. Thanks, --=20 Shawn Webb Cofounder / Security Engineer HardenedBSD Signal Username: shawn_webb.74 Tor-ified Signal: +1 (719) 756-1197 / activist_opsec.27 https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A= 4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 11:21:47AM -0700, Adrian Chadd wrote: > y'all! >=20 > please file bugs. like, whenever i have an audio problem i fire off a > bug and then i poke christos on IRC and we figure it out. >=20 > I have like 11 laptops running freebsd-16 dating back to a T420 and > early macbook air laptops. I haven't got anything earlier as they > start being i386 and not amd64. > Audio works on all of them just fine. >=20 >=20 > -adrian >=20 > On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 at 07:01, Shawn Webb wro= te: > > > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 02:04:25AM +0200, vermaden wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > > > For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - bu= t to underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - thi= s is plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep that= in mind - now - to the core of the issue ... > > > > > > I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all= ALSA/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but not= anymore. > > > > > > Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get b= roken - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE would so= lve my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things. > > > > > > I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into t= his: > > > > > > % mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05 > > > > > > ... from MUCH MORE friendly syntax. > > > > > > But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable ... and I can= not even tell where they came from ... is it OSS problem? Is is PulseAudio= problem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in the logs for au= dio. > > > > > > Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire.com' a= ccount here: > > > - https://mediafire.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sou= nd.mp4/file > > > > > > ... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a ThinkPad T= 480 from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth as Carl= os Sainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP ... but not anymore. > > > > > > I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our of des= pair ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have been rep= eating this over and over again - but its again probably the issue that 'to= o less' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver/desktop/laptop= system. > > > > > > Sorry to disappoint. > > > > I've been experiencing audio issues as well since the recent work > > started a little while ago (a year? two years? my chronological memory > > isn't the best.) > > > > It's broken bad enough that I now don't use audio on my systems at > > all. I haven't filed any bug reports, though, because it just hasn't > > been a priority for me. I've got tons of other systems where audio > > works fine and it's not really a bother to use those instead of my > > fbsd/hbsd systems. > > > > The only downside is when I want to make sure the YouTube link I'm > > about to post in random places is really the right one from an audio > > perspective. > > > > Perhaps some day I'll care enough about the problem to actually dig > > in. But for now, I've got higher priority items on my list to tackle. > > I just thought I'd provide another anectodal data point with this > > email. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -- > > Shawn Webb > > Cofounder / Security Engineer > > HardenedBSD > > > > Signal Username: shawn_webb.74 > > Tor-ified Signal: +1 (719) 756-1197 / activist_opsec.27 > > https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb= /03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc --3zobc5fyufujjvzb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJPBAABCAA5FiEEA6TL67gupaZ9nzhT/y5nonf44foFAmpej14bFIAAAAAABAAO bWFudTIsMi41KzEuMTIsMiwzAAoJEP8uZ6J3+OH6AhEP/AgMyymzJjzn8Tb3KdmV 9AS1MzNFhe6UsAGxh0a9XtOE4uAfBH3CBL3kSvVG3gdN6cKomocXrwiCAqnhbse4 GWNSESWY68dI+mCGnHkZ7Nj5eA2/urvYree0m6ASTO5QKhypt5tkO5IJ1wCQJjLv uJW3gmiTBTT3YQ277oOJQPjbPSSOO4WbLjHJN0bhidLdSqRhBHPJYLm9/zCpPt0I 3tf2C0IS3/OqahWYrZ9XIImPSqTo3cFEk6MqFHPgRUIukruFBEkZr1nq7N8l9gbO coECjaICwvOrim0xJaXHj8cx1fVIgmx36hBwDY5g2OIGEdRlPeXMmFqQQ2ebIj6I gVFwxeBBUKM3QWbK7Ms5gLd1CuHLbmsrJBwHBjNB210Eyu+CWHSJB245+FJNPYIW GnzAM7YnDqQmATCEStH/bcxk34mgcY2TGYYnZ0UdKiSgm3y2vWi14MImj42nyRfx pUBEXd4hQEe0pEgHmLQj/Gc/hzASMsTdJqSWFsmWSJuA0UzZRm7xItKheBt0w66O 071QfRZIlvXhDgwxjWpBK7PgTEAYUsqOv0FGPvRdZzZG1cPbAuSfI4o5bzzPCBBc iut2dEXpV+tdeeWLnvbM8FcDJi7FH3xYqZdDJs8vT0n2LXh4tMhcJk062iGqjEQQ /HH9xaG1JP+19b/Kg+kBS594 =Ykj1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3zobc5fyufujjvzb-- From nobody Tue Jul 21 01:59:22 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h40v34PFMz6lJnK for ; 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Mon, 20 Jul 2026 21:59:35 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3864.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: aq(4): Call for testers and feedback From: Nick Price In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 18:59:22 -0700 Cc: Gleb Smirnoff , No Name Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <577F6B04-A5C8-4145-BCBA-F0D45D873F95@spun.io> References: <65e41e33-7109-484a-98f0-a97791898f04@app.fastmail.com> To: Lexi Winter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3864.600.51.1.1) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.60 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[spun.io,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:103.168.172.128/27]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[spun.io:s=fm3,messagingengine.com:s=fm2]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[103.168.172.147:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[spun.io:+,messagingengine.com:+]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[nick]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[103.168.172.147:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:151847, ipnet:103.168.172.0/24, country:AU]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h40v23Y9Bz3htH X-Spamd-Bar: --- These are now in -current as of 1d89845 - would love to know how it goes = if everyone has a chance to test! -Nick > On Jun 25, 2026, at 15:22, Lexi Winter wrote: >=20 > Nick Price wrote in = <65e41e33-7109-484a-98f0-a97791898f04@app.fastmail.com>: >> Oh FWIW this only supports the 1.x Atlantic chips for now, but I've >> got a 2.x (AQC113-AQC116) card on the way to get that plumbed as well >=20 > i have a Mac Mini with an Aquantia AQC113: >=20 > 3:0:0: Aquantia AQC113 > 0x0000: Vendor ID: 1d6a, Product ID: 04c0 >=20 > currently running OpenBSD, but i could boot FreeBSD on it to test a > driver. aq(4) and nvme(4) are the two missing drivers needed to run > FreeBSD on this hardware, so i'd be happy to see aq supported. 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Tue, 21 Jul 2026 02:57:27 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kevin Bowling Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 02:57:16 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AUfX_mxMcftq3gKXNSACg82S07ezRZPmhYz8pojshZKUXDup3v5nIUOr_8akegs Message-ID: Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: vermaden Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.28 / 15.00]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[google.com:s=arc-20260327:i=1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.995]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.988]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4864::/56]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_PERMFAIL(0.00)[kev009.com:s=google]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d:from]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[interia.pl]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kev009.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[kev009.com:~] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4CVQ3kxLz3sRv X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Sun, Jul 19, 2026 at 5:04=E2=80=AFPM vermaden wrot= e: > > Hi. > > For a start lets define some TERMS. I use UPPERCASE not to shout - but to= underline a part of the sentence that is needed to be underlined - this is= plain email - I do not have Bold/Underscore/Italic options - keep that in = mind - now - to the core of the issue ... > > I always considered FreeBSD OSS audio/sound subsystem superior to all ALS= A/PulseAudio/PipeWire and other dramas from the Linux world ... but not any= more. > > Somewhere between 14.3-RELEASE and 14.4-RELEASE things begin to get broke= n - I thought that upgrade to latest and greatest 15.1-RELEASE would solve = my issues - as there were LOTS of sound/audio related things. > > I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into this: > > % mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05 > > ... from MUCH MORE friendly syntax. > > But these random 'boozing' sounds are just unacceptable ... and I can not= even tell where they came from ... is it OSS problem? Is is PulseAudio pro= blem? Something in between? Because there is NOTHING in the logs for audio. PulseAudio is a disaster. I recommend switching to PipeWire with the pipewire-pulse compatibility layer as a drop in replacement and my OSS sink: https://www.freshports.org/audio/pipewire-spa-oss-ng. Only major outstanding work is pipewire/pipewire-pulse don't know how to elevate their priority on FreeBSD and they really should be RT. Disable the stock PulseAudio autostart. On a KDE box the package drops `/usr/local/etc/xdg/autostart/pulseaudio.desktop`. Override it in your hom= e directory: cp /usr/local/etc/xdg/autostart/pulseaudio.desktop \ ~/.config/autostart/pulseaudio.desktop and add to the end: Hidden=3Dtrue Start PipeWire from the session. I use a small wrapper and a KDE autostart desktop file: `~/.local/bin/start-pipewire-freebsd`: #!/bin/sh if [ -z "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" ]; then export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=3D"/var/run/user/$(id -u)" mkdir -p "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" chmod 700 "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" fi pgrep -U "$(id -u)" -x pipewire >/dev/null || pipewire & sleep 1 pgrep -U "$(id -u)" -x wireplumber >/dev/null || wireplumber & pgrep -U "$(id -u)" -x pipewire-pulse >/dev/null || pipewire-pulse & `~/.config/autostart/pipewire-freebsd.desktop`: [Desktop Entry] Type=3DApplication Name=3DPipeWire FreeBSD Exec=3D/home/kev009/.local/bin/start-pipewire-freebsd X-KDE-autostart-phase=3D1 NoDisplay=3Dtrue Log out and back in (or terminate pulseaudio and run the script once by hand). Confirm the stack: pgrep -a pipewire pgrep -a wireplumber pactl info # should say "PulseAudio (on PipeWire ...)" wpctl status # sinks/sources with [freebsd-oss] Desktop volume keys, pavucontrol, and `wpctl set-volume` should drive the O= SS mixer on devices that expose one, instead of only attenuating in software. > Its also possible to get that file from my personal 'mediafire.com' accou= nt here: > - https://mediafire.com/file/jw3cpk8g77rvks2/freebsd-tragic-audio-sound.m= p4/file > > ... and its not some fancy laptop from yesterday ... its a ThinkPad T480 = from 2018 for fuck sake - hardware like that used to run smooth as Carlos S= ainz 'smooth operator' in Singapore GP ... but not anymore. > > I do not even know what to add here ... its a message send our of despair= ... as newer releases only made these things worse ... I have been repeati= ng this over and over again - but its again probably the issue that 'too le= ss' FreeBSD developers use FreeBSD as their daily driver/desktop/laptop sys= tem. > > Sorry to disappoint. > > Regards, > vermaden > > From nobody Tue Jul 21 10:13:11 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h4Cs10FKtz6ljH2 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 10:13:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 6yearold@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw1-f171.google.com (mail-yw1-f171.google.com [209.85.128.171]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h4Cs03y43z3yBF for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 10:13:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 6yearold@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-yw1-f171.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-81e6f2ee60bso35976407b3.1 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 03:13:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20251104; t=1784628819; x=1785233619; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:cc:to:subject:message-id :date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-gg :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to :content-type; bh=qsmIUe8bc0KfnEaWKgGSpDdf4RLLLBzL0FPwg0dA4pk=; b=ABSh3x6RubDx9Zwx11WOJfKwPcJSwn5XMsI1RCgaY/PDQuemkNP0NPcREMigBjNreg okc48+75n8SH43Z+MdqJWeARKoyC3Xnmn6RVeqD4oj6p/bMLkjLpwWAXmnv+zOfHj598 1glecRzgIuBulQ1an30sd5qPsQRn2LF5WNw4Xx59LbH4oF0mwP9vHHisZGGsUJBDY2Iq edaVcU0meHmoIB2DKprODaw11nAIchB3ttY2FRzCkH4hIjqX6jGM0brKmPAtnf3un6PT 73oOEVtnHC8EDJqRWx+h2ieEVkHlheQQUJKLMf5GhI+ykJwWxcda8uMRjRoJDQ8gaADP cQtQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzbG2OYL+arY0HV2lYBebqbeqBSzsyrVwi7PBtqNBezzr1MhnA5 mpXXbXa1x1w2az+QilpXvom8x9/WUN2acDhTTZ/KZElmQff73PinExvU1QFKTpR64WY= X-Gm-Gg: AR+sD12mQVfIVh/ZT0OP/4xHsChPEnfQs1ab2Ixulp1GkTsHtuzLMX+F8X5/zyEULyv vd7ULOXPcQQFKxVKSHfMIrSiqsSY0KAmfa+mt9+Fradun8in+685lbEcm7tXh3hSjYJXQhUo5sf t0I2ijo5BSq5hB/X/IPD9Zhp/u2/IUrzh8GMlbsPkZBMgWFKUzmYfLCmUZQyxsLzEFzaSW9JlxM L4kFnahJP4VerXbD1tYKqChpiDfz/27PkQuHvyGdHUEjs1ChFsn559Wpf/0vMLu8I2vEaNI2VvR YFhGSXqqlRViYOEoR11qcruLIWuLg0CQpVqqZaf87aCMsaeoShl1SE0o+OVdp5doQPMl0I5QuAP ae7LmzzjxksJUjEF397hqLZn9nIUlokYnoST5F6v3zIr8AMfloLimBJO+YhK3J9Rvx5qVp8Q8cy 4fj6/3mJgXX5gglNM/xcTGHsHejh3G+Eve1Q5K/S+e8a3717sgoYSm0pU3KB3w6Hx9D79gq5ALc c3CeLK2cWTX77CcA+NsIyaWcOI1DzKKX/UYLLw0ZuklK3rrtmFg5fOR7APj9pBILEraF9BnfWD+ rmhF3fDzc0T6xfoUxvaQyheBZMZvv3ZJmDn6Og== X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:c4d2:b0:81e:5d2e:7a2d with SMTP id 00721157ae682-81ef149951bmr53622067b3.1.1784628819446; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 03:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx1-f49.google.com (mail-yx1-f49.google.com. [74.125.224.49]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 00721157ae682-81ef4016243sm60898447b3.7.2026.07.21.03.13.37 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Jul 2026 03:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yx1-f49.google.com with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-667923d86a7so5263061d50.0 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 03:13:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a53:c30d:0:b0:668:110f:8581 with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-6682a0a21aemr5322937d50.39.1784628817265; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 03:13:37 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Gleb Popov Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 13:13:11 +0300 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-Gm-Features: AUfX_mw3rpyn-fZqdwmp_I0c35mAdoifodw8dnpIATxCOEv7LbeXySd0k_p_j-c Message-ID: Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Kevin Bowling Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4Cs03y43z3yBF X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 12:57=E2=80=AFPM Kevin Bowling wrote: > > Only major outstanding work is pipewire/pipewire-pulse don't know how to > elevate their priority on FreeBSD and they really should be RT. What's needed for that? > Disable the stock PulseAudio autostart. Why, what's wrong with it? > if [ -z "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" ]; then > export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=3D"/var/run/user/$(id -u)" > mkdir -p "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" > chmod 700 "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" > fi This is done by pam_xdg, you shouldn't do that yourself. From nobody Tue Jul 21 10:31:00 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h4DDR6DLMz6lkqK; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 10:30:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "YR1" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h4DDR5gGbz44Fl; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 10:30:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1784629831; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Cy/nPodjG7nVS1y3HpWBIIRFHqJYxHchm7EKI+ME6rc=; b=blYebF6QL2h99L4R23v8D9w/pSmDyW+ONZkEamL7ntU/7RR7xrk1vui7lOcoCcTnQedty+ dQRxf4xRDZMr5KMmVwMrIzawNrDq7qxupHX4wBpAcUkosEQoc7GRcC8cjwTz9J2fCftmRM YINyd3addGlrlMlPl1CF1xDmgzXkXY4hRAnsB6zFLLcI5izRQAfENvdT1bN5t+aB+11YU6 efEcI52yawBtgmmZ4VSh51WkVw6nvUzxnrlwwZ8fC3xZL7OHSTolItkeCEU4y/s+q8PNVi BEVVLP22E3nQxrzj/sftjjD+tng4cza/okIXQ0UeveGJWtxiO4MSOjLtJkp4Tw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1784629831; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=KF+k4oRc7Bq/u6LN8oT2VO8GUBPGeRlwdTix2p+aHgDXGhN4Sr+TGOUincyJTBQxvwx8V0 Sw32z5tTrn5UE/++pxOpkQaxUk9oEbHkfaHtZMGGPQRdKSsAJvhGvBm5eFiZZYFzQvU7bX o6pAhkQWII2KnMauxvgMEsEdrOmsGg0jZmJfljYnUxWwtPt2m1Gz2CKijb2bVVBx3azY5r Rkuc9m+89+tg7RmaBe9Jg8cdvv6ZULf5JWuY7RvkQ2OBVj52blK6XPOMljnrqet2l9CV8D UWKbcuuBmaY9z20Mm41iwID3CuIll7S1GTpYtvBccWq4qxLJi+k0ummFdsBe3A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1784629831; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Cy/nPodjG7nVS1y3HpWBIIRFHqJYxHchm7EKI+ME6rc=; b=DVhOuF8VWmkaoXuV7PKcpPQnE4/DcVpUwWEox2rd49S/K9yPhof3PHhZ6E8gykLX99xGLV dusr5idS8N2n1iKNOyHl0T2FJ+JG3M+07KVLioVAP6gIH0IR1WDpPD7dNxxwmp2QzMjIhC 76HrL2CxX/QwFDiVF54q7PFODWZ5iMIRNwjUxLmxPmNGcULgZrabmAqXmbBr970awm+G6g FS+NQ67GQC9T8enUH7+864pfXY/kaiZRYVOGznArkNNZm4lnqckPp2YK0G2WNmsVqy7QwP Ae3SJ2TfdnWQQHvuyfT/c/WLRkh1dcEJv/p0vQcsIdcpbs9BWJ6yOeHsnC+4iA== Received: from fc.opsec.eu (fc.opsec.eu [IPv6:2001:14f8:200:4::4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: pi/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4h4DDQ5ddRz9FH; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 10:30:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 12:31:00 +0200 From: Kurt Jaeger To: Gleb Popov Cc: Kevin Bowling , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound Message-ID: References: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Hi! > > Disable the stock PulseAudio autostart. > > Why, what's wrong with it? In my case I have no idea what service is starting it. Any hints ? > > if [ -z "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" ]; then > > export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR="/var/run/user/$(id -u)" > > mkdir -p "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" > > chmod 700 "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" > > fi > > This is done by pam_xdg, you shouldn't do that yourself. I use startx to start my beloved, old-timer, vtwm session 8-} Where does XDG come into play ? -- pi@FreeBSD.org +49 171 3101372 Now what ? 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[74.125.224.53]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 00721157ae682-81ef4016243sm61104877b3.7.2026.07.21.03.45.44 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Jul 2026 03:45:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yx1-f53.google.com with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-6679d88abdcso7716741d50.2 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 03:45:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:690e:2504:10b0:667:bd13:2f46 with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-6683bbcc51cmr3905871d50.30.1784630744326; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 03:45:44 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Gleb Popov Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 13:44:59 +0300 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-Gm-Features: AUfX_mxaFzYrG9FBkb86t9n0GGfzz3DAdUTeikHSq04qzfSBp7NevmHi9mAEJjk Message-ID: Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Kurt Jaeger Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4DZ2436pz47wH X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 1:30=E2=80=AFPM Kurt Jaeger wrote: > > Hi! > > > > Disable the stock PulseAudio autostart. > > > > Why, what's wrong with it? > > In my case I have no idea what service is starting it. > > Any hints ? IIRC, it gets started whenever something calls libpulse.so APIs. > > > if [ -z "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" ]; then > > > export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=3D"/var/run/user/$(id -u)" > > > mkdir -p "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" > > > chmod 700 "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" > > > fi > > > > This is done by pam_xdg, you shouldn't do that yourself. > > I use startx to start my beloved, old-timer, vtwm session 8-} > > Where does XDG come into play ? When you log in as your user: # grep -r pam_xdg /etc/pam.d/ /etc/pam.d/system:session required pam_xdg.so From nobody Tue Jul 21 18:02:27 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h4QGD75Btz6mGn1 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 18:02:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevin.bowling@kev009.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x82b.google.com (mail-qt1-x82b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h4QGD5351z49bY for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 18:02:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevin.bowling@kev009.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-qt1-x82b.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-52192509869so32677051cf.1 for ; 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Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:02:38 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kevin Bowling Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:02:27 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AUfX_mxGl57sSu_kAlv5BBbMrbmxGNTZjefz0cDEAmErpidhdgC1PuT3X9nXUJ4 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Gleb Popov Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4QGD5351z49bY X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 3:13=E2=80=AFAM Gleb Popov wro= te: > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 12:57=E2=80=AFPM Kevin Bowling wrote: > > > > Only major outstanding work is pipewire/pipewire-pulse don't know how t= o > > elevate their priority on FreeBSD and they really should be RT. > > What's needed for that? There are multiple issues: 1) Either a fix for the priority in PipeWire (SCHED_FIFO, don't set a negative nice.level =3D -11 as a normal user) or something to make RTKit work 2) Use the process ID, _gettid(). 3) kldload mac_priority and user in realtime group > > Disable the stock PulseAudio autostart. > > Why, what's wrong with it? Try killing it with KDE running and see what happens. > > if [ -z "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" ]; then > > export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=3D"/var/run/user/$(id -u)" > > mkdir -p "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" > > chmod 700 "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" > > fi > > This is done by pam_xdg, you shouldn't do that yourself. 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Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:14:11 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kevin Bowling Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:13:59 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AUfX_mwWFnrxAuK1yvXyNJWQkQP75tvsQywc7klC1_cDonyEurbg25Pk_cw57Yw Message-ID: Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Gleb Popov Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.27 / 15.00]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[google.com:s=arc-20260327:i=1]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.99)[0.995]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.988]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.976]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4864::/56:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; R_DKIM_PERMFAIL(0.00)[kev009.com:s=google]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::832:from]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kev009.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[kev009.com:~] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4QWT3cHKz4GBp X-Spamd-Bar: -- On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 11:02=E2=80=AFAM Kevin Bowling wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 3:13=E2=80=AFAM Gleb Popov w= rote: > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 12:57=E2=80=AFPM Kevin Bowling wrote: > > > > > > Only major outstanding work is pipewire/pipewire-pulse don't know how= to > > > elevate their priority on FreeBSD and they really should be RT. > > > > What's needed for that? > > There are multiple issues: > > 1) Either a fix for the priority in PipeWire (SCHED_FIFO, don't set a > negative nice.level =3D -11 as a normal user) or something to make RTKit > work > 2) Use the process ID, _gettid(). Meant to say _not_ thread ID, for setpriority. But users still cant -11. > 3) kldload mac_priority and user in realtime group > > > > Disable the stock PulseAudio autostart. > > > > Why, what's wrong with it? > > Try killing it with KDE running and see what happens. > > > > if [ -z "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" ]; then > > > export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=3D"/var/run/user/$(id -u)" > > > mkdir -p "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" > > > chmod 700 "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" > > > fi > > > > This is done by pam_xdg, you shouldn't do that yourself. 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[74.125.224.45]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 00721157ae682-81f33c57d46sm2002207b3.18.2026.07.21.11.18.30 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yx1-f45.google.com with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-66771ded50aso15085230d50.1 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:18:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:690e:347:b0:667:bdcb:c5d5 with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-6683bc38adamr4018724d50.62.1784657909932; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:18:29 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Gleb Popov Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 21:17:46 +0300 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-Gm-Features: AUfX_mx3D8fNHrbzIGxbOwwjbd88OpipHHWyViBMtEs42kdESLKoFiuMSPtJmAA Message-ID: Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Kevin Bowling Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4QcR2Rvdz4JbL X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 9:02=E2=80=AFPM Kevin Bowling wrote: > > or something to make RTKit > work Doesn't sysutils/rtkit-unix work? 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c89a531083afc83a7a4b5c587d998290; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 18:37:50 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <47837a66-1ff3-4f45-83a8-d53b00b55d28@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:37:50 -0700 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: "nvmecontrol: format request returned error"message for "nvmecontrol format -f 3 nvme1" on a still-new Optane DC P4800X 1.5T : info and questions From: Mark Millard To: freebsd-current , Warner Losh References: <8c2056bb-9431-45ad-b548-197face69d43@yahoo.com> Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <8c2056bb-9431-45ad-b548-197face69d43@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.26180 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.88 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.877]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.68.83:from]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.68.83:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4R2s60Bbz4Nhn X-Spamd-Bar: --- Adding Warner to the To list in order to be sure that he sees it. So far as I can tell, Warner seems to be likely to be the only one likely to answer on if there is more that I should do for formatting the Optane DC P4800X 1.5T based on the below information. So long as he is aware of the question, there is no reason for him to elevate the priority for when to potentially answer. On 7/17/26 13:19, Mark Millard wrote: > My attempt to change from (in smartctl output form): > > Supported LBA Sizes (NSID 0x1) > Id Fmt Data Metadt Rel_Perf > 0 + 512 0 2 > . . . > > to: > > Supported LBA Sizes (NSID 0x1) > Id Fmt Data Metadt Rel_Perf > . . . > 3 - 4096 0 0 > . . . > > reported: > > # nvmecontrol format -f 3 nvme1 > nvmecontrol: format request returned error > > but afterwards shows: > > Supported LBA Sizes (NSID 0x1) > Id Fmt Data Metadt Rel_Perf > . . . > 3 + 4096 0 0 > . . . > > It also shows: > > Media and Data Integrity Errors: 0 > Error Information Log Entries: 0 > > Error Information (NVMe Log 0x01, 16 of 64 entries) > No Errors Logged > > dmesg -a shows: > > # dmesg -a | tail -7 > nvme1: Resetting controller due to a timeout. > nvme1: event="start" > nvme1: event="success" > nvme1: aborting outstanding admin command > nvme1: FORMAT_NVM (80) sqid:0 cid:15 nsid:ffffffff cdw10:00000003 > cdw11:00000000 > nvme1: ABORTED_BY_REQUEST (00/07) crd:0 m:0 dnr:1 p:0 sqid:0 cid:15 cdw0:0 > nvme1: done aborting outstanding admin > > > Is this a problem for use of the media? Did it likely finish what it was > doing? If it did not finish, what may I do about it? > > > For reference (after the attempt): > > === START OF SMART DATA SECTION === > SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED > > SMART/Health Information (NVMe Log 0x02, NSID 0xffffffff) > Critical Warning: 0x00 > Temperature: 45 Celsius > Available Spare: 100% > Available Spare Threshold: 0% > Percentage Used: 0% > Data Units Read: 22 [11.2 MB] > Data Units Written: 33 [16.8 MB] > Host Read Commands: 862 > Host Write Commands: 210 > Controller Busy Time: 0 > Power Cycles: 5 > Power On Hours: 1 > Unsafe Shutdowns: 1 > Media and Data Integrity Errors: 0 > Error Information Log Entries: 0 > > and: > > # nvmecontrol identify -n 1 nvme1 > Size: 366284646 blocks > Capacity: 366284646 blocks > Utilization: 366284646 blocks > Thin Provisioning: Not Supported > Number of LBA Formats: 7 > Current LBA Format: LBA Format #03 > Metadata Capabilities > Extended: Supported > Separate: Not Supported > Data Protection Caps: Last Bytes, Type 1 > Data Protection Settings: Not Enabled > Multi-Path I/O Capabilities: Not Supported > Reservation Capabilities: Not Supported > Format Progress Indicator: Not Supported > Deallocate Logical Block: Read Not Reported > Optimal I/O Boundary: 0 blocks > NVM Capacity: 0 bytes > Globally Unique Identifier: 00000000000000000000000000000000 > IEEE EUI64: 5cd2e496b5ea0100 > LBA Format #00: Data Size: 512 Metadata Size: 0 Performance: Good > LBA Format #01: Data Size: 512 Metadata Size: 8 Performance: Good > LBA Format #02: Data Size: 512 Metadata Size: 16 Performance: Good > LBA Format #03: Data Size: 4096 Metadata Size: 0 Performance: Best > LBA Format #04: Data Size: 4096 Metadata Size: 8 Performance: Best > LBA Format #05: Data Size: 4096 Metadata Size: 64 Performance: Best > LBA Format #06: Data Size: 4096 Metadata Size: 128 Performance: Best > > -- === Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Tue Jul 21 19:37:10 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h4SMT70Rlz6mMM3 for ; 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Tue, 21 Jul 2026 12:37:23 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kevin Bowling Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 12:37:10 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AUfX_mzQ-e2LO1KnFqAcHFk1uXtm1YMt8UnduZuS-Qacc3_hP3Wwpn8_ZR4H61g Message-ID: Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Gleb Popov Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4SMT4bcbz3JJw X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 11:18=E2=80=AFAM Gleb Popov wr= ote: > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 9:02=E2=80=AFPM Kevin Bowling wrote: > > > > or something to make RTKit > > work > > Doesn't sysutils/rtkit-unix work? Not sure.. it could be the other issues noted and you don't need anything exotic to test: [W][12:29:38.641985] mod.rt | [ module-rt.c: 622 set_nice()] could not set nice-level to -11: No such process W 12:29:38.649223 mod.rt ../src/modules/module-rt.c:622:set_nice: could not set nice-level to -11: No such proces s From nobody Tue Jul 21 22:18:54 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h4X5Y6mdbz6mY6Q for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 22:25:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from christos@freebsd.org) Received: from margiolis.net (mail.margiolis.net [95.179.159.8]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA512) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h4X5X6Lnvz3ngY for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 22:25:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from christos@freebsd.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=margiolis.net header.s=default header.b=mw3WzdmX; spf=softfail (mx1.freebsd.org: 95.179.159.8 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of christos@freebsd.org) smtp.mailfrom=christos@freebsd.org; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, DKIM not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=freebsd.org (policy=none) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=default; bh=d4H6zLDiy24+ WHxSs7uSSKZ/wYU2IAabhVMWYfvwrms=; h=in-reply-to:references:to:cc:from: subject:date; d=margiolis.net; b=mw3WzdmXV3RKUU+OZPN1k1Skcd3uGywOtgzlm GFcrC0GaN7uW9y55QDz7y5jZ0Wzw1d1Y9fEsUHVf9EvNnYu2Z53pQUklWFA5GyPmZ7azMD ZPHPacxf9f+8lt7cGgqO3OVu+NskNzGQ9m6/ukfsKCsN/cQDQqmmzxO2Q21Jmp/w= Received: from localhost (31-217-161-51.cgn.athe.cosmote.net [31.217.161.51]) by margiolis.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 74b2678b (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Tue, 21 Jul 2026 16:18:55 -0600 (MDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2026 01:18:54 +0300 Message-Id: Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound From: "Christos Margiolis" Cc: To: "Matthew Grooms" X-Mailer: aerc 0.21.0 References: <20260720202746.45869b21@rimwks.local> In-Reply-To: X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.30 / 15.00]; SPAM_FLAG(5.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[margiolis.net:s=default]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[freebsd.org : No valid SPF, DKIM not aligned (relaxed),none]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_HELO_LOCALHOST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[margiolis.net:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[christos]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:95.179.144.0/20, country:US]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4X5X6Lnvz3ngY X-Spamd-Bar: ++ On Mon Jul 20, 2026 at 8:59 PM EEST, Matthew Grooms wrote: > On 7/20/26 12:38, vermaden wrote: >>>> I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into >>>> this: >>>> >>>> % mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05 >>> Just use gtk-mixer, avail in ports. >>> >>> In recent years, I haven't noticed any bugs >>> in the operation of the OSS. >> I do it by scripts anyway ... but I needed to rewrite all my scripts bec= ause of these changes ... and this change in syntax was bad from at least t= hree perspectives: >> >> 1. It happened in 'point' release (like from .2 to .3) - not in new majo= r release - breaking stuff for EVERYONE. >> >> 2. It happened without any reason - the tool could do the same with old = syntax underneath - the new syntax does not introduce anything new - it jus= t has different syntax. >> >> 3. As FreeBSD (at least up to some time ago) cherished the POLA principl= e WHY the old syntax could not been also kept and accepted? >> >> ... and yes - I also think that 'gtk-mixer' works well - so is 'dsbmixer= ' tool. > > > It offered something new to me: Confusion. In the past, I'd need to=20 > fiddle with the mixer once a year and it was more or less obvious how it= =20 > worked. The last time, I just gave up. > > -Matthew I am genuinely curious. What is so confusing, and even worse, more obvious with old syntax than the new, to the point that you would give up? Christos From nobody Tue Jul 21 22:55:41 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h4XmQ01h6z6kMWn for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 22:55:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Received: from mail-oo1-xc34.google.com (mail-oo1-xc34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c34]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h4XmP3N9Yz3wvC for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 22:55:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-oo1-xc34.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-6a190528769so3596682eaf.0 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 15:55:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Tue, 21 Jul 2026 15:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mutt-hbsd ([97.112.164.127]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 006d021491bc7-6aa76925a0csm461702eaf.5.2026.07.21.15.55.42 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 21 Jul 2026 15:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 22:55:41 +0000 From: Shawn Webb To: Christos Margiolis Cc: Matthew Grooms , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound Message-ID: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD mutt-hbsd 15.1-STABLE-HBSD FreeBSD 15.1-STABLE-HBSD HARDENEDBSD amd64 X-PGP-Key: https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/blob/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc References: <20260720202746.45869b21@rimwks.local> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="a3h44ysnwnipvmgs" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4XmP3N9Yz3wvC X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --a3h44ysnwnipvmgs Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound MIME-Version: 1.0 On Wed, Jul 22, 2026 at 01:18:54AM +0300, Christos Margiolis wrote: > On Mon Jul 20, 2026 at 8:59 PM EEST, Matthew Grooms wrote: > > On 7/20/26 12:38, vermaden wrote: > >>>> I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into > >>>> this: > >>>> > >>>> % mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05 > >>> Just use gtk-mixer, avail in ports. > >>> > >>> In recent years, I haven't noticed any bugs > >>> in the operation of the OSS. > >> I do it by scripts anyway ... but I needed to rewrite all my scripts b= ecause of these changes ... and this change in syntax was bad from at least= three perspectives: > >> > >> 1. It happened in 'point' release (like from .2 to .3) - not in new ma= jor release - breaking stuff for EVERYONE. > >> > >> 2. It happened without any reason - the tool could do the same with ol= d syntax underneath - the new syntax does not introduce anything new - it j= ust has different syntax. > >> > >> 3. As FreeBSD (at least up to some time ago) cherished the POLA princi= ple WHY the old syntax could not been also kept and accepted? > >> > >> ... and yes - I also think that 'gtk-mixer' works well - so is 'dsbmix= er' tool. > > > > > > It offered something new to me: Confusion. In the past, I'd need to=20 > > fiddle with the mixer once a year and it was more or less obvious how i= t=20 > > worked. The last time, I just gave up. > > > > -Matthew >=20 > I am genuinely curious. What is so confusing, and even worse, more > obvious with old syntax than the new, to the point that you would give > up? Another anecdotal data point: I, too, was impacted by the mixer(8) syntax change. I wrote my own volume control scripts for my i3wm environment. I found the syntax change to be somewhat confusing, whereas the old syntax seemed the more straightforward of the two. I was able to adjust my script, but it definitely was an impactful change that actually caught me somewhat off-guard at the time. Minor annoyance, but doable for me. Thanks, --=20 Shawn Webb Cofounder / Security Engineer HardenedBSD Signal Username: shawn_webb.74 Tor-ified Signal: +1 (719) 756-1197 / activist_opsec.27 https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A= 4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc --a3h44ysnwnipvmgs Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJPBAABCAA5FiEEA6TL67gupaZ9nzhT/y5nonf44foFAmpf+N8bFIAAAAAABAAO bWFudTIsMi41KzEuMTIsMiwzAAoJEP8uZ6J3+OH6+nIP/iZdHexD5219RcmHWRjl 0WPVTQQ3+kGeZdZkQpYoq234sw8TSGJoruyUR6Sq0AaQtfodg0qa5m8I3uhONFcZ OYndlPjLSahGlvtOoq97ek7r+5bay3xHTOb4YSynfIdTghgiR45CDaUNSXPHqyr8 9it4KR6KdqSXalay790MEds2hebxoELh9+5H9O1wDlN9LdIxCsAj2Ks+wqYhSCZI IwZD+OLUSeCd6yDaVlDlCHYq/hrtAejO1uuxjjGDpe6qS4y5oTgfASdegSWbvy4D C4MyRY6/+Yswh9zGMwK5lDnaPKq3+KWfYdPWIc7POtGOQCh41txqYt8Zsl79D8vh KoKBJ42r7minzgWOJjYD6i67CsuhYGTw6e/JeqELZ0cdQYJGpvXZVtzQfdHQvitk ytGFXUHEiS7MV7eHrktFOZv7xblU5B3mCFlK08yiEjhi5/frqZ8cn5pnGSI6SQUs hctQxkfD2v+RaZ66RqdVzLoBKxP3htcQJTGcKtHHQbg6cBanJ9yPTufYrnrYVItj A0k1HIGv0U+vNPGo+o6EbyX6xa+mIDpezAE3fAAcyPtsy06Xvv8HNNYdK3IXHYfu hbHoNc9ioLpiMoRmj5iezQIGBP0bn9WOUmm3gEVSLEb7D2K/XAy5bbHlF2i/PLCz 5zVmRBn2OYQwhTtq/peVxwpN =V7+g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --a3h44ysnwnipvmgs-- From nobody Tue Jul 21 23:24:33 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h4YPg3JZZz6kPjQ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:24:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo75.interia.pl (smtpo75.interia.pl [217.74.67.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h4YPg2Jcfz43Bg; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:24:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2026 01:24:33 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Christos Margiolis , Mario Marietto Cc: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.2 Message-Id: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=dk; t=1784676277; bh=Jz+V8o3T3P8qn+EaH+eXUhFiI+5qiNmjnJOY8w2psR8=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=kjKW/56pMApzUQ89Vjo0kamYilXUMFedCQXAzfbLJjfmOP0iQtJjwEup6xv1J8VOW RTRow7ZacGIt+P8pJP+76Rq72M4Dxj1GyLmP1evIQjDfBsaUpTTWL98qPY8VAl+2lm g3PMwKSKqg0DtGPLeqDTQWFit46wGz18l+5+mymE= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4YPg2Jcfz43Bg X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- > This is a gradual work so it cannot be > all committed in a massive commit. So keep it in CURRENT when it belongs ... why this half way done shit was spread into STABLE tree? > A quick look at mixer(8)'s man page would > suggest otherwise... The rewrite was > introduced in 14.0, and was never MFC'd to 13.*. As I said earlier - I do not remember exactly when the fuckup happened - I would gladly still use 13.x line ... but its EoL unfortunately ... the 14.x is my only choice now ... and its already broken as fuck. > This is wrong in all aspects. The > tool does introduce something new: > muting and unmuting. What is the difference between volume=0 and muting? ZERO. Do not find the counter arguments where they are not. Current audio/sound subsystem on FreeBSD is fucked up beautifully - more people then me confirmed that. > And you could not do the same with the old syntax (...) Great ... make ONE SMALL ADDITIONAL syntax for mute/unmute - but does not fuck up entire audio/sound stack on FreeBSD because of it. > I do not understand the obsession with POLA sometimes. Probably because FreeBSD is not your daily driver ... > At the moment I am the only consistent > sound developer on FreeBSD, and there > are a few more people who occasionally > contribute code, so resources are > naturally scarce. Instead of ranting > on MLs about how "tragic" sound is, > you could spend that time to file a > bug report so that we can try to > address your issues. Great, so you messed up EVERYTHING in FreeBSD audio/sound department hoping no one would notice? Why all these commits landed in STABLE in the first place? Build and modernize whatever the fuck You want in CURRENT tree - but stay away from STABLE where people expect things to actually work. I do not know what 'FreeBSD Foundation' told You when they started to fund Your work - which is more then OK for me - just keep it all in CURRENT before its complete. Spreading commits to STABLE make EVERYONE life measurable with all these unfinished and broken things. > This whole thread is entirely pointless Great ... so please tell me why entire audio/sound stack on FreeBSD that used to work flawlessly over DECADES is broken as fuck because of You? Looking at your ignorance level the only thing I want to tell You is the same thing that I can tell to 'Lennart Poettering' - which is 'get the fuck off my lawn!' - but I will not do that hoping that You may actually try to improve FreeBSD - just keep it in CURRENT before its ready and it does not break all the FreeBSD desktop/laptop users we have up there. Regards, vermaden From nobody Tue Jul 21 23:25:08 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h4YQH4xX4z6kPmK for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:25:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from christos@freebsd.org) Received: from margiolis.net (mail.margiolis.net [95.179.159.8]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA512) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h4YQG5Gt4z43wW for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:25:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from christos@freebsd.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=default; bh=oOrf6cPF70O6 dWlQR8Fg60yZFjjGasg599exsf/MPL0=; h=in-reply-to:references:to:from: subject:cc:date; d=margiolis.net; b=nfvg4VblHzUx3nnXM5C87BX0P74rmYaAsy FvfW2PKy7rWWa44ZEUSQn5D9YilZ36WiExFp/Ie3BjncftcfaaQHLGsa6vr4bVHuNdtrQZ kRkDHe+VEvQzxF1EUwZsv0ieidbCW73TE7/g19rP/kMdkIMn5PruKNpvIzlefxSeBAA= Received: from localhost (31-217-161-51.cgn.athe.cosmote.net [31.217.161.51]) by margiolis.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id a3c0dace (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Tue, 21 Jul 2026 17:25:09 -0600 (MDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2026 02:25:08 +0300 Message-Id: Cc: "Matthew Grooms" , Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound From: "Christos Margiolis" To: "Shawn Webb" X-Mailer: aerc 0.21.0 References: <20260720202746.45869b21@rimwks.local> In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4YQG5Gt4z43wW X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:95.179.144.0/20, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Wed Jul 22, 2026 at 1:55 AM EEST, Shawn Webb wrote: > On Wed, Jul 22, 2026 at 01:18:54AM +0300, Christos Margiolis wrote: >> On Mon Jul 20, 2026 at 8:59 PM EEST, Matthew Grooms wrote: >> > On 7/20/26 12:38, vermaden wrote: >> >>>> I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went into >> >>>> this: >> >>>> >> >>>> % mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05 >> >>> Just use gtk-mixer, avail in ports. >> >>> >> >>> In recent years, I haven't noticed any bugs >> >>> in the operation of the OSS. >> >> I do it by scripts anyway ... but I needed to rewrite all my scripts = because of these changes ... and this change in syntax was bad from at leas= t three perspectives: >> >> >> >> 1. It happened in 'point' release (like from .2 to .3) - not in new m= ajor release - breaking stuff for EVERYONE. >> >> >> >> 2. It happened without any reason - the tool could do the same with o= ld syntax underneath - the new syntax does not introduce anything new - it = just has different syntax. >> >> >> >> 3. As FreeBSD (at least up to some time ago) cherished the POLA princ= iple WHY the old syntax could not been also kept and accepted? >> >> >> >> ... and yes - I also think that 'gtk-mixer' works well - so is 'dsbmi= xer' tool. >> > >> > >> > It offered something new to me: Confusion. In the past, I'd need to=20 >> > fiddle with the mixer once a year and it was more or less obvious how = it=20 >> > worked. The last time, I just gave up. >> > >> > -Matthew >>=20 >> I am genuinely curious. What is so confusing, and even worse, more >> obvious with old syntax than the new, to the point that you would give >> up? > > Another anecdotal data point: > > I, too, was impacted by the mixer(8) syntax change. I wrote my own > volume control scripts for my i3wm environment. I found the syntax > change to be somewhat confusing, whereas the old syntax seemed the > more straightforward of the two. > > I was able to adjust my script, but it definitely was an impactful > change that actually caught me somewhat off-guard at the time. Minor > annoyance, but doable for me. > > Thanks, I do not object to the fact that the change was invasive and broke scripts, but I do disagree completely that the new syntax is more confusing or worse. It can naturally support more functionality and is structured in a well-known format: foo.bar=3Dvalue. Old syntax: $ mixer vol 80 New syntax, which offers a couple of ways to do volume setting, because for volume setting there is also a shorthand (see last 2 examples): $ mixer vol.volume=3D0.80 $ mixer vol.volume=3D80% $ mixer vol=3D0.80 $ mixer vol=3D80% Especially given the last example, what exactly is so different or confusing? The other functionality (of the two) of the old syntax, recording source setting, was used like this: {^|+|-|=3D}rec . For example, old syntax: $ mixer ^rec monitor New syntax: $ mixer monitor.recsrc=3Dtoggle The new syntax also supports mixing different functionalities in one command: $ mixer vol.volume=3D100% rec.mute=3Don monitor.recsrc=3Dtoggle Apart from the fact that old syntax did not, and could not, support muting (unless a new interface was introduced), this would need 3 separate commands. The new syntax is more verbose, but I find it impossible to believe that the old one is more "obvious" or better. Christos From nobody Tue Jul 21 23:32:58 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h4YbQ4KDQz6kQQS for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:33:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Received: from mail-oo1-xc35.google.com (mail-oo1-xc35.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c35]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h4YbQ1GFQz49CW for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:33:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-oo1-xc35.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-6a168dc590cso887386eaf.0 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 16:33:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Tue, 21 Jul 2026 16:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mutt-hbsd ([97.112.164.127]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 006d021491bc7-6aa76923f5bsm519043eaf.4.2026.07.21.16.32.59 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 21 Jul 2026 16:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:32:58 +0000 From: Shawn Webb To: Christos Margiolis Cc: Matthew Grooms , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound Message-ID: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD mutt-hbsd 15.1-STABLE-HBSD FreeBSD 15.1-STABLE-HBSD HARDENEDBSD amd64 X-PGP-Key: https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/blob/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc References: <20260720202746.45869b21@rimwks.local> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="nuensgkdqogpsvkk" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4YbQ1GFQz49CW X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --nuensgkdqogpsvkk Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound MIME-Version: 1.0 On Wed, Jul 22, 2026 at 02:25:08AM +0300, Christos Margiolis wrote: > On Wed Jul 22, 2026 at 1:55 AM EEST, Shawn Webb wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2026 at 01:18:54AM +0300, Christos Margiolis wrote: > >> On Mon Jul 20, 2026 at 8:59 PM EEST, Matthew Grooms wrote: > >> > On 7/20/26 12:38, vermaden wrote: > >> >>>> I will not even start about PITA syntax of mixer(1) which went in= to > >> >>>> this: > >> >>>> > >> >>>> % mixer -f ${DEV} vol.volume=3D+0.05 > >> >>> Just use gtk-mixer, avail in ports. > >> >>> > >> >>> In recent years, I haven't noticed any bugs > >> >>> in the operation of the OSS. > >> >> I do it by scripts anyway ... but I needed to rewrite all my script= s because of these changes ... and this change in syntax was bad from at le= ast three perspectives: > >> >> > >> >> 1. It happened in 'point' release (like from .2 to .3) - not in new= major release - breaking stuff for EVERYONE. > >> >> > >> >> 2. It happened without any reason - the tool could do the same with= old syntax underneath - the new syntax does not introduce anything new - i= t just has different syntax. > >> >> > >> >> 3. As FreeBSD (at least up to some time ago) cherished the POLA pri= nciple WHY the old syntax could not been also kept and accepted? > >> >> > >> >> ... and yes - I also think that 'gtk-mixer' works well - so is 'dsb= mixer' tool. > >> > > >> > > >> > It offered something new to me: Confusion. In the past, I'd need to= =20 > >> > fiddle with the mixer once a year and it was more or less obvious ho= w it=20 > >> > worked. The last time, I just gave up. > >> > > >> > -Matthew > >>=20 > >> I am genuinely curious. What is so confusing, and even worse, more > >> obvious with old syntax than the new, to the point that you would give > >> up? > > > > Another anecdotal data point: > > > > I, too, was impacted by the mixer(8) syntax change. I wrote my own > > volume control scripts for my i3wm environment. I found the syntax > > change to be somewhat confusing, whereas the old syntax seemed the > > more straightforward of the two. > > > > I was able to adjust my script, but it definitely was an impactful > > change that actually caught me somewhat off-guard at the time. Minor > > annoyance, but doable for me. > > > > Thanks, >=20 > I do not object to the fact that the change was invasive and broke > scripts, but I do disagree completely that the new syntax is more > confusing or worse. It can naturally support more functionality and is > structured in a well-known format: foo.bar=3Dvalue. >=20 > Old syntax: >=20 > $ mixer vol 80 >=20 > New syntax, which offers a couple of ways to do volume setting, because > for volume setting there is also a shorthand (see last 2 examples): >=20 > $ mixer vol.volume=3D0.80 > $ mixer vol.volume=3D80% > $ mixer vol=3D0.80 > $ mixer vol=3D80% >=20 > Especially given the last example, what exactly is so different or > confusing? I apologize, I don't recall the specifics. Too much time has passed. But I do remember being confused, though the confusion was eventually resolved (and really wasn't too big a deal, just surprising from an outsider's perspective.) >=20 > The other functionality (of the two) of the old syntax, recording source > setting, was used like this: {^|+|-|=3D}rec . >=20 > For example, old syntax: >=20 > $ mixer ^rec monitor >=20 > New syntax: >=20 > $ mixer monitor.recsrc=3Dtoggle I don't use that part of mixer(8)'s functionality. I admit I'm quite ignorant of the audio subsystem, even from a user's perspective (which is a testament to how well the audio subsystem worked **for me** prior to the overhaul.) >=20 > The new syntax also supports mixing different functionalities in one > command: >=20 > $ mixer vol.volume=3D100% rec.mute=3Don monitor.recsrc=3Dtoggle >=20 > Apart from the fact that old syntax did not, and could not, support > muting (unless a new interface was introduced), this would need 3 > separate commands. >=20 > The new syntax is more verbose, but I find it impossible to believe that > the old one is more "obvious" or better. It probably is better. I'm not nearly that advanced of an audio user to really know the finer details. Audio goes up, audio goes down. Microphone works or it doesn't. Right now neither work, but I already discussed those details in another email (rest of my email seems snipped for brevity.) Thanks, --=20 Shawn Webb Cofounder / Security Engineer HardenedBSD Signal Username: shawn_webb.74 Tor-ified Signal: +1 (719) 756-1197 / activist_opsec.27 https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A= 4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc --nuensgkdqogpsvkk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJPBAABCAA5FiEEA6TL67gupaZ9nzhT/y5nonf44foFAmpgAaEbFIAAAAAABAAO bWFudTIsMi41KzEuMTIsMiwzAAoJEP8uZ6J3+OH6D+QP/RYFlGs1WWsCU4C35Asc hNxCXpQpJD5L3nh/RlHkccO/qEJgjQLToDJmcQumCVBVXk3MBoVaQtgXJYlW1UZg uPc27zkZ78xx5pLYifHxlLTLj26vy48xLIg/dLVRz4GcSSGxiuw+EgyRNsr2hD0y FEFE+FmYMel7xcMje4PpQn7MPnIDRDilhwD+TKegOJnda4gex4q4evsfj+vxQt5j MpF7HQ3R397rIt8VIFwVdTyddrdCqmLtyc2ydj92Kalsmzt0xCb4KWif9NpxEFNE ogOQlmYi2ZfN+IHanQMrM8rZT3nTpuHObZpcX84U76emRUUkeVZpnSd0tCeySCf0 y83RCacJcJ7kvPT1A+oMhpU9V0t7F7wtwZ4DZK+P+Ku8mKf+UXI0LJ1F87Np4hGE OAgjahOBshxiQ6EbQw9JGAGfX3iv8PJA7LSZHk9TqHDXoB5eyDV6dANYvdXmPTkJ 3NQnyH4kS8dF0kRN2QE7xloC+SNBOJNhYOktNW5NNgSz3XeT1zhEh94yf3GOUOwH qfygwVhW2GtEueC5HSKk3+wJUFqy8lrvTpWW1XNb2PLRq0dqUCFo4sT+LOPbY8d+ SuyHsvZg192U7+wxXWKYyXw2BWIZTOUCj0CcoITm5lP6ANCA/vG5Fcu/WR1u5hVB qmPpx/li6pDsGmX7ulHlGczG =ezM7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nuensgkdqogpsvkk-- From nobody Tue Jul 21 23:36:27 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h4YgX72Q6z6kQbq; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:36:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from meka@sys.it.com) Received: from meka.rs (meka.rs [109.93.255.137]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h4YgX02rxz3C7P; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:36:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from meka@sys.it.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=mail; d=sys.it.com; c=relaxed/relaxed; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID; t=1784676991; bh=iy18Yat85RcBmjrpySeClev QdwDI+0IhNMzNDKO2oZ8=; b=ZDsCawo/oVWLmFx6ksOZ6KJajU+6J+SlVVF2Frh90pnqW/Wca6 Drx/EpudYIc2C1hGdFGH2dSTIJIC61ap5FExS1jIFxlSmWT635VQMa73GGzYhLiQLv+s8mVXgGQ /2cvqnDBFdNaYKhHJJsKM207ZZYzw0NvnY49EA7IDOidGpXMrigu/q7AUiinvx0QEIUn6H8zy83 pgyX1X9p/5wrNNWPrQCEWKiz9CHsGUQ5au9CDXBnbs0sENdGca2XrJwzi2dOr3m8qwxugm2mfkj aeV41GhrZtIWD01pacyucKWbV59Jpjw/OQSp3GEV9Lgzb5o5v151O/e/446e90dY7Tw==; Message-ID: <0d6398ae-4e22-40c9-aa75-4ab9663d8fac@sys.it.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2026 01:36:27 +0200 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: vermaden , Christos Margiolis , Mario Marietto Cc: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: =?UTF-8?Q?Goran_Meki=C4=87?= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4YgX02rxz3C7P X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8400, ipnet:109.92.0.0/15, country:RS] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On 7/22/26 1:24 AM, vermaden wrote: > Great, so you messed up EVERYTHING in FreeBSD audio/sound department hoping > no one would notice? Why all these commits landed in STABLE in the first > place? (not only) I disagree! Sound was never broken for me, not even once. You'd think that I'm lucky, but the truth is that I actually tried to help Christos when I could and knew how. How about you try the same, because if I were in Christos' place, I would ignore you completely after the tone and arrogance you're using. Look at DRM, it was single man effort for a long time and guess what, it was broken a lot. What did I do? Same thing many others did: help when I could! Bisect is the least I could do to at least pinpoint what commit broke it for me. Sound currently has only one maintainer trying to improve things and all you can do is bash him. Shame on you! You can at least try to be polite! Regards, meka From nobody Tue Jul 21 23:43:56 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h4Yr30dWhz6kR2K; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:44:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo75.interia.pl (smtpo75.interia.pl [217.74.67.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h4Yr26p3xz3DW4; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:44:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2026 01:43:56 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Kyle Evans , Christos Margiolis , Mario Marietto Cc: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <01c7d370-cf05-4aef-8de8-df6888c6a62f@FreeBSD.org> References: <01c7d370-cf05-4aef-8de8-df6888c6a62f@FreeBSD.org> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.2 Message-Id: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=dk; t=1784677441; bh=LGALUQzfa5s74nhY39ZkyUbFzfZMgy7HOdx7HapuHmI=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=E3TFxGIf9qj7HrPu6ubeXMmUm/mvnr+H7z9Bn3BRHAu02fSSBynrT70TLQDdYH9KM EynPo+XoggvpqPxH7saz4uiECg4ox01HimG2/d8kKFsF4hP/ENIuqXuMZnlFjCgzxf gnjN6Jc+ATmpXVlWWi7vfBx0vmkttLQk00pMr6OY= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4Yr26p3xz3DW4 X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- > Hi, > > Top posting: please knock off the abuse. > That is not welcome in this community. > If you have technical complaints, great, > but you're crossing multiple lines here. > > Thanks, > Kyle Evans TOP POSTING means quoting ENTIRE earlier message 'intact' and adding 'some' content above it - sometimes quoting some parts of it - sometimes just adding a thought or a comment above it - I assume this is the definition - this is NOT what I did. I just gathered quotes from multiple emails of one author in the same topic/area and replied to them - w/o quoting them entirely below - so I DID NOT did a TOP POSTING. Another thing that is not welcome in the FreeBSD community is breaking stuff that used to work for YEARS w/o a real reason and just hoping that next commits could fix the damage that already has been done. The sound/audio changes are welcome and often needed - but CURRENT is the place where all of these commits should happen and 'upgraded' to STABLE branch ONLY after making sure that they do not break existing stuff (POLA) and adding anything more then is actually available right now. Regards, vermaden From nobody Tue Jul 21 23:54:16 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h4Z3x5CD6z6kS2p; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:54:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h4Z3w6bNXz3J3m; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:54:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from delta.joker.local (124-18-6-240.area1c.commufa.jp [124.18.6.240]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.18.1/8.17.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 66LNsG7x089384; Wed, 22 Jul 2026 08:54:16 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dec.sakura.ne.jp; s=s2405; t=1784678057; bh=DYI9Rl4OhIhhE5szTEVo9I5GClVlK+BFkN3xY+wXpqo=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=hA7UZTopQp2ea5jNUCIi62S95YWzbZfLeUtT1xHIrJKFDEFuvwWHaAls0V/WjrhUi VK87sMnrqiCKTMq0Rw6NmadfFJBJsPnN8HWK6lBFjZNYkrrKGa4mCWr8o8KbEJcUUp XKrHH7YddCv7PbFJZ8GM0zvV7il8tFGkzFGCu1Ys= Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2026 08:54:16 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: Kevin Bowling Cc: Gleb Popov , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound Message-Id: <20260722085416.407316d393dce1884c29a3c7@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd15.0) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4Z3w6bNXz3J3m X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:02:27 -0700 Kevin Bowling wrote: > On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 3:13 AM Gleb Popov wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 12:57 PM Kevin Bowling wrote: > > > > > > Only major outstanding work is pipewire/pipewire-pulse don't know how to > > > elevate their priority on FreeBSD and they really should be RT. > > > > What's needed for that? > > There are multiple issues: > > 1) Either a fix for the priority in PipeWire (SCHED_FIFO, don't set a > negative nice.level = -11 as a normal user) or something to make RTKit > work > 2) Use the process ID, _gettid(). > 3) kldload mac_priority and user in realtime group > > > > Disable the stock PulseAudio autostart. > > > > Why, what's wrong with it? > > Try killing it with KDE running and see what happens. Putting others aside, if anyone want to use pipewire, pulseaudio shouldn't be installed alongside. IIUC, pipewire was (at least initially) developed as the "successor" of pulseaudio and not intended to be installed alongside (choose one basis), and provides pulseaudio compatibility for apps not yet natively support pipewire. And when I've tried pipewire a bit in early days it appeared in ports tree, I've experienced the same on Mate DE. The only workaround was to deinstall pulseaudio, but as pulseaudio is depended upon by many ports, upgrading ports forcibly pull pulseaudio in again unless nothing depending upon pulseaudio is upgraded. So, I think *Make pulseaudio and pipewire conflicting each other *Add USES to pull in whichever pulseaudio or pipewire *Add DEFAULT_VERSIONS for it to choose whichever as dependency would be needed. I imagine something like this. https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/porting-x11libre-to-freebsd.98455/page-5#post-711350 Not sure about current state (at the moment, OSS supports was not yet provided and I've become too tired to play around ALSA configurations, thus, abandoned further tests), but if pulseaudio is still needed to build pulseaudio compatibility supports, using distfiles for pulseaudio but do NOT depend on pulseaudio port would be needed to achieve the above. Regards. > > > if [ -z "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" ]; then > > > export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR="/var/run/user/$(id -u)" > > > mkdir -p "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" > > > chmod 700 "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" > > > fi > > > > This is done by pam_xdg, you shouldn't do that yourself. -- Tomoaki AOKI From nobody Tue Jul 21 23:54:46 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h4Z4S3v33z6kS13; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:54:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "YR1" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h4Z4S2yvHz3K1w; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:54:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Tue, 21 Jul 2026 23:54:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <1763fded-3865-4796-95c9-7e483bdad96d@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 18:54:46 -0500 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: vermaden , Christos Margiolis , Mario Marietto Cc: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <01c7d370-cf05-4aef-8de8-df6888c6a62f@FreeBSD.org> Content-Language: en-US From: Kyle Evans In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/21/26 18:43, vermaden wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Top posting: please knock off the abuse. >> That is not welcome in this community. >> If you have technical complaints, great, >> but you're crossing multiple lines here. >> >> Thanks, >> Kyle Evans > > TOP POSTING means quoting ENTIRE earlier message 'intact' and adding 'some' content above it - sometimes quoting some parts of it - sometimes just adding a thought or a comment above it - I assume this is the definition - this is NOT what I did. > > I just gathered quotes from multiple emails of one author in the same topic/area and replied to them - w/o quoting them entirely below - so I DID NOT did a TOP POSTING. > No, top posting is what I did. > Another thing that is not welcome in the FreeBSD community is breaking stuff that used to work for YEARS w/o a real reason and just hoping that next commits could fix the damage that already has been done. > Just because you don't agree with his reasoning, that does not make it any less valid. That's still no excuse for the attacks. > The sound/audio changes are welcome and often needed - but CURRENT is the place where all of these commits should happen and 'upgraded' to STABLE branch ONLY after making sure that they do not break existing stuff (POLA) and adding anything more then is actually available right now. > Can you point to which changes to a stable branch you're objecting to? I'm looking to the changes to mixer(8) that were cherry-picked after stable/14 branched, and none of these seem particularly breaking and I probably would have made the same decisions. > Regards, > vermaden From nobody Wed Jul 22 00:53:41 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4h4bNm4D61z6kWnM for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2026 00:54:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevin.bowling@kev009.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4h4bNm27KJz3Vcj for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2026 00:54:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevin.bowling@kev009.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; 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AHgh+Rr/MHLdthkD0n02PdwDJX9kAuLx1Q/PYMLc2Yd3lKmtcK9dmhdk6j1/5Tm0RLika/+ZaVwBvYPWG4wLeXsYUTQ=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwkWySi0qnioXc5q+m5ZeFJ10v9NBA/iXTOHwpyJU8Dc2zUZoHX wS4TB6T91NFBznTpU4obVVTxR/J38M59xiyZCH87nm9deVuhxAX8fHr0xyiKxiPAB3Y6UEdsYtD pJjYloc7FovZ8E5Em4lFH3u7cAF5N0TyJioDqp86R X-Gm-Gg: AR+sD10VSxUI7YeADyx5d6wJKHad79O8O90Bvsl2/PLL/up6eYDiMWNr4rBinKQ51za Y4EznpNPZycPdQLkNLHfiVri/Uc58w0RS++p5lIc0IyVP+gubrsG/ecB8ApYLjecmTRvOqRBwVS +6dovgzzdK/jV+ZNnhcstngAd9MHhEmhkFaKDD22Rnh4Q0yatBp8AS2hFbaR8OT+iaIO6InG6zy 5zSwyeL39pdWxD5ygEmzsfAVFkd8aHLWVboqzbpQ769RwrB/bBKHyhIRspsjb2qcKHZE0XjshFm YXamIRsU0lLRw+GVz4u/Q2HGwUfvvo63wQTZT4Z9eeUynDq1Jh8VmtYtdVl6ap6o5uK3d4+aKuz kRS+xqq32LCdM/JZ/7/HK492draiC X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:2295:b0:51c:248d:900 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-5213cad91a9mr195558811cf.52.1784681634345; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 17:53:54 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20260722085416.407316d393dce1884c29a3c7@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: <20260722085416.407316d393dce1884c29a3c7@dec.sakura.ne.jp> From: Kevin Bowling Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 17:53:41 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AUfX_mzN9MMRq3m2j4jtJrPD1AkV03P5a3tK5n_Dgt_wQfhsOb0CYXtJrouMKdM Message-ID: Subject: Re: Tragic State of FreeBSD Audio/Sound To: Tomoaki AOKI Cc: Gleb Popov , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4h4bNm27KJz3Vcj X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 4:54=E2=80=AFPM Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > > On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 11:02:27 -0700 > Kevin Bowling wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 3:13=E2=80=AFAM Gleb Popov = wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 12:57=E2=80=AFPM Kevin Bowling wrote: > > > > > > > > Only major outstanding work is pipewire/pipewire-pulse don't know h= ow to > > > > elevate their priority on FreeBSD and they really should be RT. > > > > > > What's needed for that? > > > > There are multiple issues: > > > > 1) Either a fix for the priority in PipeWire (SCHED_FIFO, don't set a > > negative nice.level =3D -11 as a normal user) or something to make RTKi= t > > work > > 2) Use the process ID, _gettid(). > > 3) kldload mac_priority and user in realtime group > > > > > > Disable the stock PulseAudio autostart. > > > > > > Why, what's wrong with it? > > > > Try killing it with KDE running and see what happens. > > Putting others aside, if anyone want to use pipewire, > pulseaudio shouldn't be installed alongside. Not quite yet. You _need_ pulseaudio installed, because it defines the API and ABI presently. I'm not aware of any way to build pulse software with i.e. pipewire as the bdep? > IIUC, pipewire was (at least initially) developed as > the "successor" of pulseaudio and not intended to be installed > alongside (choose one basis), and provides pulseaudio > compatibility for apps not yet natively support pipewire. pipewire-pulse (included in our default install) is a stand in. "Eventually," software should write directly to the pipewire graph. But that will take a long time, if ever, because Pulse wasn't awful as a client API (which is an easy problem space). Overall, pipewire is pretty nice. It is analagous to something like Apple's coreaudio. It can do bitperfect with my sink, and you can build graphs that avoid any SRC (Sample Rate Conversions) for proaudio and such. I've basically reached a local maxima on the sink to where the kernel would need some work to support things like digital passthrough or more pro audio oriented stuff, but I think it's basiaclly feature complete for desktop audio. > And when I've tried pipewire a bit in early days it appeared > in ports tree, I've experienced the same on Mate DE. > The only workaround was to deinstall pulseaudio, but as > pulseaudio is depended upon by many ports, upgrading ports > forcibly pull pulseaudio in again unless nothing depending > upon pulseaudio is upgraded. Read my instructions again and let me know how it goes. All you need to do is prevent pulseaudio from starting. But it needs to remain installed. > So, I think > *Make pulseaudio and pipewire conflicting each other > *Add USES to pull in whichever pulseaudio or pipewire > *Add DEFAULT_VERSIONS for it to choose whichever as > dependency > would be needed. > > I imagine something like this. > https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/porting-x11libre-to-freebsd.98455/pa= ge-5#post-711350 > > > Not sure about current state (at the moment, OSS supports > was not yet provided and I've become too tired to play > around ALSA configurations, thus, abandoned further tests), > but if pulseaudio is still needed to build pulseaudio > compatibility supports, using distfiles for pulseaudio > but do NOT depend on pulseaudio port would be needed > to achieve the above. > > Regards. > > > > > > if [ -z "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" ]; then > > > > export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=3D"/var/run/user/$(id -u)" > > > > mkdir -p "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" > > > > chmod 700 "$XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" > > > > fi > > > > > > This is done by pam_xdg, you shouldn't do that yourself. > > > -- > Tomoaki AOKI