From nobody Mon Dec 8 00:15:33 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPjF12ctQz6J4vC; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 00:15:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPjF10cdVz472y; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 00:15:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by kib.kiev.ua (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTP id 5B80FYBa081163; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 02:15:37 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua 5B80FYBa081163 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) id 5B80FXPh081162; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 02:15:33 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kib@freebsd.org using -f Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 02:15:33 +0200 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Mateusz Guzik Cc: Warner Losh , Mark Millard , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 Message-ID: References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=4.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.2 (2025-08-27) on tom.home X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:2001:470::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dPjF10cdVz472y On Sun, Dec 07, 2025 at 11:30:41AM +0100, Mateusz Guzik wrote: > On Sat, Dec 6, 2025 at 11:26 PM Warner Losh wrote: > > A few months before I landed the jemalloc patches, i did 4 or 5 from dirt buildworlds. The elasped time was, iirc, with 1 or 2%. Enough to see maybe a diff with the small sample size, but not enough for ministat to trigger at 95%. I didn't recall keeping the data for this and can't find it now. And I'm not even sure, in hindsight, I ran a good experiment. It might be related, or not, but it would be easy enough for someone to setup a two jails: one just before and one just after. Build from scratch the world (same hash) on both. That would test it since you'd be holding all other variables constant. > > > > When we imported the tip of FreeBSD main at work, we didn't get a cpu change trigger from our tests that I recall... > > > > Note you probably build tested with clang which was already penalized. > > I just verified that going to libc as of this commit: > commit c43cad87172039ccf38172129c79755ea79e6102 (HEAD) > Merge: da260ab23f26 48ec896efb0b > Author: Warner Losh > Date: Mon Aug 11 17:38:36 2025 -0600 > > jemalloc: Merge from jemalloc 5.3.0 vendor branch > > retains the perf problem as seen in the malloc microbenchmarks > > and that going to one commit prior bring it back in line with 14.3 > > built like so from lib/libc: > make -s -j 8 WITHOUT_TESTS=1 MALLOC_PRODUCTION=yes all install > > Given that jemalloc prior to the import is a well known working state, > I think it will be most prudent to revert the update for the time > being and investigate it later. > > Note both jemalloc itself and clang aside, there is the issue of > slower binary startup in the first place (see the doexec.c parts in my > e-mail). > > Given the magnitude of the slowdowns, the above two are definitely EN > material. Sorting out the startup thing should qualify depending on > complexity of the fix, whatever it might be. > I completely disagree. NO_SHARED toolchain was the remnant from the pre-historic times where migration to the ELF was performed, I believe. It was a precaution to make it possible to recover the system in case the rtld/dynamic libc installation gone wrong. In other words, non-shared toolchain is a mistake on its own. Next, the change of llvm components to dynamically link with the llvm libs is how upstream does it. Not to mention, that this way to use clang+lld saves both disk space (not very important) and memory (much more important). The implied load on rtld is something that could be handled: there is definitely no need to have such huge surface of exported symbols on both libllvm and esp. libclang. Perhaps by default the internal libraries can use protected symbols, normally C++ do not rely on interposing. But such 'fixes' must occur at upstream. So far all the clang toolchain changes were aligning it with what the llvm project does. From nobody Mon Dec 8 01:11:47 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPkTg4p7nz6JdDf for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 01:11:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x635.google.com (mail-ej1-x635.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::635]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPkTg2hbBz3GnL for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 01:11:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ej1-x635.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b75c7cb722aso552003266b.1 for ; Sun, 07 Dec 2025 17:11:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765156310; x=1765761110; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=ugQpQ57N1XPyacGKXp0NppbeSALyCGkyG/dBxyzw2Jw=; b=etO4IuCe6uPeDzFhCm/bAMn6Kx2FRzW6rdUM46EcjGiTid/OBZRXTTyAibMKS2y1GX +06xhwuuC++fYq+jhXpm/FIaw0QOH48n1hSUEEogTINTwtnKbNQF1O86GOA2PBFL/PBm hAtXuJS9R4LTlMO2OwinMVrSQDM5q30D7IzK484Xb+fgH7ie3i+cUpPqD65uTcd+fqYO HWv6gLgFuthJzKX6QKeC4xmGmVs2ekSJ81iYf0nXNN4q827Xpf9Q+ZE6PArwdKHOMtUd ytp3xJLb9zq7i1BtfLDsHmxbwDkOUvsGCenxcLWJJWXxnhwAUBvbIts+TZ4ohvO/nQGu izMQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765156310; x=1765761110; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ugQpQ57N1XPyacGKXp0NppbeSALyCGkyG/dBxyzw2Jw=; b=Z55L2mMHInt7+5sbLY/szYxt70d3JkJvYuAJ7YpGcmWukQPzOHvWvDG67qVsulJb4M vxk9u22j2AgLntvvsr5vuz9KqKptC0Qwo6aY0zUfZZquhOOboD7blfom8SW6/81vCUaY pGyaLgsv8sz1BNA+mCL50dJAV2PCeVF83WfMmFUKh1WZKHyiPqRb7eNpGmfHPfydt/57 Mcku7Ytb0VVYHIfT3wRgNXXPH/tCXz03Tsp7ACfN9eSwEKT5kKv1jp9nxiHPk65K+/hD Zbxlj78iUAxw2n4ZwBEw2kqXaj3lB2aqfj9YouVuVHUanhR6JD4BclJGw7GaG5U6FICk 63zg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwTS17pXHkg4mHlytytZNH9P/oGHh8+8ktfkqv3aPn9eTnHUwkO kiEb93OlshkQfYbxqsP8rW0tpCWcvB2XWffwt3IHo07BtM8OitKMEMzvVP0TMesB X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvGrVpbn54domrxGhbLY/Nk2H0OsLJXwLOHyvj8ZASaN1JshNZ5RAX05R0345b MUfWGGtj2U0ypia2nLZXlFRVR4xzbm5RIU9NITv1NTOIMlKrNtTBlx+6nWG4DM1CxbvoxazFkmt 2qab1PhSLxIxpiJUiKkUYdyvy1lOw5/MTJA5ULa3b6Oi3XQ5mwGY+xof1N2qOX6+jFzkaPv/CWW pLUy6jjgcgIf8AfBIuZGyx0zKTezGkbmEH62LnFG0KRjRdq0QvLuNUP8iW+JaH0d8bqKVEHBcBJ ZYQIPC3BkC9/TbNxTkeOiObZZGoEkL3i9wxcnHcCICsgY51ChCIcTx314oprVj3Ao2NFdhMougT 4MxbccW/0QLtwyFtPDoZCSVcB4Pjp01nlZWlChBAM+YM2ZBbz5uXWIqClF2KdpzgYbroBqaoc9w 5lbt78xZHYRlUFRYf27eHvz/xV X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IH2l0V+Enbb4kKQI5YUAcry2HFoB7RMX2cdknYs4EXRWNBsdJEw1CcarNbTbUs3hKvQ0jWkFQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3e14:b0:b73:667e:bb29 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b7a2428dd62mr597376566b.8.1765156309929; Sun, 07 Dec 2025 17:11:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from rimwks.local ([2001:470:1f1b:4dc:f489:3de4:6515:f056]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b79f4a2f401sm962911166b.65.2025.12.07.17.11.49 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Dec 2025 17:11:49 -0800 (PST) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 03:11:47 +0200 To: Michael Butler Cc: freebsd-current Subject: Re: fib selection and persistence using ipfw Message-ID: <20251208031147.393b2391@rimwks.local> In-Reply-To: <20350073-abc5-4116-9fd7-8e8f708a26d4@protected-networks.net> References: <20350073-abc5-4116-9fd7-8e8f708a26d4@protected-networks.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.3.1 (GTK 3.24.51; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.3) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dPkTg2hbBz3GnL On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 17:28:49 -0500 Michael Butler wrote: > Having two upstream providers, I'm trying to enforce symmetric > routing which, in OpenBSD's pf config can be implemented using .. > > # Inbound control-plane to the firewall itself (per-WAN reply-to for > symmetry) > pass in on $wan_a proto { tcp, udp, icmp } to ($wan_a) \ > reply-to ($wan_a $gw_a) keep state > pass in on $wan_b proto { tcp, udp, icmp } to ($wan_b) \ > reply-to ($wan_b $gw_b) keep state > > I've tried all manner of ipfw packet tagging in the hope that it > would yield similar results, e.g. > > setfib 1 ip from any to any recv tap0 > setfib 1 ip from any to any tagged 1 > count tag 1 ip from any to any recv tap0 > > [ .. ] > > check-state > allow ip from .. keep-state > deny log ip from any to any > > Is anyone else doing something like this on -current? Actually no, but: ifconfig vlan1001 172.16.0.31/24 fib 1 ifconfig vlan1002 172.16.0.32/24 fib 2 Do not forget set fib to network interface like it done in examlpe. In my case if same IP+mask set on more than one net if - only last one will process packets to sockets. From nobody Mon Dec 8 01:51:05 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPlM64M7gz6Jh30 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 01:51:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x629.google.com (mail-ej1-x629.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::629]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPlM60hC7z3NV6 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 01:51:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ej1-x629.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b79f8f7ea43so692950966b.2 for ; Sun, 07 Dec 2025 17:51:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765158668; x=1765763468; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=BU5naiNu734PHIRIf0/CeeXZ4gbOcGfPGUoWZjjCShk=; b=bwMhPrUJgJnEM0utrn8865Tq2uRlXJ1xqEYG4zlcn2ED0wGXQkRKPpODIfKqpYC6Wb KAjet75cqrH8YaXe9x8n/LnYE8yj73osWs4Ias1AsCC4SJZe3fH+QgmjXNgnf0pTgycp ravvtPKFUxZa+TwKKdfXSUU8cknW/wIkToS2PDd0pLivGQCw7PkXi+7WUz0UOzMf7sg4 p5Y83WdlAXPhl6JvkewtdhYR1/mJ5broh1H/mWQRokjXkpC5YR2XGmE8WuREo4x2cSKe 99HJ+SQee1Oqxu1idmazMyOrcVbTAalaR1CWFfs08NN+W3bAmk+z0rUfpF5tviyYauy2 r8XQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765158668; x=1765763468; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=BU5naiNu734PHIRIf0/CeeXZ4gbOcGfPGUoWZjjCShk=; b=SYtOyTG5x1qpL2w+G8sSMi8RTLDJWGUrUgX/ZD2EnPoOiBS4WM80iEHZNGT2dZyERb M7QUtLTPzAEtmuqBlZUm2KMOAHaR8ZLmwgnxFbbwcOglj0ajzfPr6Hrm7B4OUa4QFXyA hcOghAKF2jgqETbDMO3JHrZWa4r45GhZBsJ3FCno6g9GEtRMXxMoZj1lzVSlZRaacsUA 3y5vBsJ1HC1lww3dYl3GTwJP20bn3IyKRud27GaBPY+5Pgi8Fpfy1b+8pb9nNg0UZ9ss 0qmhwHIci5jkI/ys7okfzuO9uZ2v0hXlj9EcAMhU5oq/c78nwscPpdExpwFkN1olZMEy E9GQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCX/V4M5pco7GjzEXcQ6I7dTwdOh3yoe6YPW4tUYweOcd3sGWsoMhA94a0PkcMBHrgZZPh6eoQEThrBQa1+XYVE=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxRjCAaaDXbsbhiAeBWyakSLDNVYXwaBzUj0VqI+11pulA5bE+w SB5VqzsV9CdYvvLnwdtX0DfnVKX3JnKtIi8wOOt14GT+Vu9A8dfxViUQfiMdGiT4 X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvfJekSMkpZqx65nH3loV7Q2c9pvi3JoJYfIzKgTOEeC1lpmCVIF6Jt5Vdch1R 4s+zqylnSdE+B2Ot2ZlL5b4tSTSz7lOPE6kFAMSq+z4MLIO5d3Y06MT6LVJiS/kfMTo3g+CPqtZ Z/7A2Se7nuozvkdz4DNZYjBhiQqyOFDLo85jvA9sAcF79vupsFWl4bU9ZXHPyR51DIKyZQm640N 047bDcRAuZaSsUCSh3kk5Qs0WuAl8GUwugyatBf0BD2Y+SbbIZ/ltxQnJHQgLvSFdCVWrF1EoBj QcSyQ5hiN/z1j0icb5kU+CEffdlfJH2w+eRqiwX2GBdyr232FZHxxPan79Vt+PFXuvaDdKL02oA Fzz2zwPaP5X78oMSIRg0zrps+zPgOAcwaYxQ5EQl9q2nkrxDqCXGe1Hj9gTJITyT29SYq970oV4 bbV/e4QVcQ0ZtyqA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEgqMHR2nmJyTenffMstkkzeeRMgMDWdvs0brNloaEA3lmELhw0IigYsAjYWQcQoNkawnoZfQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:7e85:b0:b76:bcf5:a388 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b7a247fc041mr681247566b.50.1765158667438; Sun, 07 Dec 2025 17:51:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rimwks.local ([2001:470:1f1b:4dc:f489:3de4:6515:f056]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b79f4975c56sm950566466b.33.2025.12.07.17.51.06 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Dec 2025 17:51:06 -0800 (PST) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 03:51:05 +0200 To: Konstantin Belousov Cc: Mateusz Guzik , Warner Losh , Mark Millard , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , brooks@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 Message-ID: <20251208035105.2313075d@rimwks.local> In-Reply-To: References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.3.1 (GTK 3.24.51; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.3) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dPlM60hC7z3NV6 On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 02:15:33 +0200 Konstantin Belousov wrote: > Next, the change of llvm components to dynamically link with the llvm > libs is how upstream does it. Not to mention, that this way to use > clang+lld saves both disk space (not very important) and memory (much > more important). It waste time and energy = money waster, "multiply CO2 production". And there is nothing good to user to pay this price. I have: # pkg version -vI | grep llvm libclc-llvm15-15.0.7 = up-to-date with index llvm15-15.0.7_10 = up-to-date with index llvm17-17.0.6_8 = up-to-date with index llvm18-18.1.8_2 = up-to-date with index llvm19-19.1.7_1 = up-to-date with index there is no any crappy libprivateclang.so/libprivatellvm.so shared libs: # ldd /usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19 /usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19: libthr.so.3 => /lib/libthr.so.3 (0x801063000) libclang-cpp.so.19.1 => /usr/local/llvm19/bin/../lib/libclang-cpp.so.19.1 (0x801200000) libLLVM.so.19.1 => /usr/local/llvm19/bin/../lib/libLLVM.so.19.1 (0x805c00000) libc++.so.1 => /lib/libc++.so.1 (0x801092000) libcxxrt.so.1 => /lib/libcxxrt.so.1 (0x80119b000) libm.so.5 => /lib/libm.so.5 (0x8011bd000) libc.so.7 => /lib/libc.so.7 (0x80d663000) librt.so.1 => /lib/librt.so.1 (0x805bcb000) libexecinfo.so.1 => /usr/lib/libexecinfo.so.1 (0x805bd4000) libz.so.6 => /lib/libz.so.6 (0x805bda000) libzstd.so.1 => /usr/local/lib/libzstd.so.1 (0x80d963000) libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x80da38000) libelf.so.2 => /lib/libelf.so.2 (0x80da59000) [vdso] (0x7ffffffff000) But # ls /usr/bin/cc -r-xr-xr-x 6 root wheel 82M Oct 19 18:10:39 2025 /usr/bin/cc* # ls /usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19 -rwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 125K Aug 18 06:43:31 2025 /usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19* So it dynamic linked.... .... And we found in port: CMAKE_ARGS= -DLLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB=ON CMAKE_ARGS+= -DLLVM_LINK_LLVM_DYLIB=ON (exist from first llvm6 372b8a151352984140f74c342a62eae2236b2c2c and copy-pasted to all next llvm~s by brooks@FreeBSD.org) According to: https://llvm.org/docs/CMake.html ============================================================================================= BUILD_SHARED_LIBS is only recommended for use by LLVM developers. If you want to build LLVM as a shared library, you should use the LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB option. ============================================================================================= So upstream DOES NOT RECOMMEND to build shared libs to users!!! Why FBSD use shared libs for LLVM in ports and now in base!??? @brooks - why do you do that? > The implied load on rtld is something that could be handled: there is > definitely no need to have such huge surface of exported symbols on > both libllvm and esp. libclang. Perhaps by default the internal > libraries can use protected symbols, normally C++ do not rely on > interposing. But such 'fixes' must occur at upstream. > > So far all the clang toolchain changes were aligning it with what the > llvm project does. > No, upstream does not recommend to use shared libs to llvm users. From nobody Mon Dec 8 01:59:17 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPlXf68rlz6JhXD; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 01:59:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPlXd6Vvyz3QPc; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 01:59:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=freebsd.org (policy=none); spf=softfail (mx1.freebsd.org: 2001:470:d5e7:1::1 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of kib@freebsd.org) smtp.mailfrom=kib@freebsd.org Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by kib.kiev.ua (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTP id 5B81xHm4087459; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 03:59:20 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua 5B81xHm4087459 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) id 5B81xHiX087458; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 03:59:17 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kib@freebsd.org using -f Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 03:59:17 +0200 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Rozhuk Ivan Cc: Mateusz Guzik , Warner Losh , Mark Millard , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , brooks@freebsd.org Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 Message-ID: References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <20251208035105.2313075d@rimwks.local> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20251208035105.2313075d@rimwks.local> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=4.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.2 (2025-08-27) on tom.home X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.50 / 15.00]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[freebsd.org : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[kib]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org,freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com,bsdimp.com,yahoo.com,freebsd.org]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dPlXd6Vvyz3QPc On Mon, Dec 08, 2025 at 03:51:05AM +0200, Rozhuk Ivan wrote: > On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 02:15:33 +0200 > Konstantin Belousov wrote: > > > Next, the change of llvm components to dynamically link with the llvm > > libs is how upstream does it. Not to mention, that this way to use > > clang+lld saves both disk space (not very important) and memory (much > > more important). > > It waste time and energy = money waster, "multiply CO2 production". > And there is nothing good to user to pay this price. > > > I have: > > # pkg version -vI | grep llvm > libclc-llvm15-15.0.7 = up-to-date with index > llvm15-15.0.7_10 = up-to-date with index > llvm17-17.0.6_8 = up-to-date with index > llvm18-18.1.8_2 = up-to-date with index > llvm19-19.1.7_1 = up-to-date with index > > there is no any crappy libprivateclang.so/libprivatellvm.so shared libs: > > # ldd /usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19 > /usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19: > libthr.so.3 => /lib/libthr.so.3 (0x801063000) > libclang-cpp.so.19.1 => /usr/local/llvm19/bin/../lib/libclang-cpp.so.19.1 (0x801200000) > libLLVM.so.19.1 => /usr/local/llvm19/bin/../lib/libLLVM.so.19.1 (0x805c00000) Did you noted this line? > libc++.so.1 => /lib/libc++.so.1 (0x801092000) > libcxxrt.so.1 => /lib/libcxxrt.so.1 (0x80119b000) > libm.so.5 => /lib/libm.so.5 (0x8011bd000) > libc.so.7 => /lib/libc.so.7 (0x80d663000) > librt.so.1 => /lib/librt.so.1 (0x805bcb000) > libexecinfo.so.1 => /usr/lib/libexecinfo.so.1 (0x805bd4000) > libz.so.6 => /lib/libz.so.6 (0x805bda000) > libzstd.so.1 => /usr/local/lib/libzstd.so.1 (0x80d963000) > libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x80da38000) > libelf.so.2 => /lib/libelf.so.2 (0x80da59000) > [vdso] (0x7ffffffff000) > > But > # ls /usr/bin/cc > -r-xr-xr-x 6 root wheel 82M Oct 19 18:10:39 2025 /usr/bin/cc* > # ls /usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19 > -rwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 125K Aug 18 06:43:31 2025 /usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19* > So it dynamic linked.... > .... > And we found in port: > CMAKE_ARGS= -DLLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB=ON > CMAKE_ARGS+= -DLLVM_LINK_LLVM_DYLIB=ON > (exist from first llvm6 372b8a151352984140f74c342a62eae2236b2c2c and copy-pasted to all next llvm~s by brooks@FreeBSD.org) > > According to: https://llvm.org/docs/CMake.html > ============================================================================================= > BUILD_SHARED_LIBS is only recommended for use by LLVM developers. > If you want to build LLVM as a shared library, you should use the LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB option. > ============================================================================================= > > So upstream DOES NOT RECOMMEND to build shared libs to users!!! I am curious about the motivation. JFYI, shared llvm libs are required for lot of things. The incomplete list of examples that I am aware of are dri drivers and ispc Intel compiler. > > Why FBSD use shared libs for LLVM in ports and now in base!??? > > @brooks - why do you do that? > > > > The implied load on rtld is something that could be handled: there is > > definitely no need to have such huge surface of exported symbols on > > both libllvm and esp. libclang. Perhaps by default the internal > > libraries can use protected symbols, normally C++ do not rely on > > interposing. But such 'fixes' must occur at upstream. > > > > So far all the clang toolchain changes were aligning it with what the > > llvm project does. > > > > No, upstream does not recommend to use shared libs to llvm users. From nobody Mon Dec 8 02:03:23 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPld92LRRz6Jj1c; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 02:03:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPld91dPfz3Sp6; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 02:03:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765159405; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=w+eHdo+jCOdx3gKePToXFw0f9jWzWz61HGnAenpE3yY=; b=ma1TFu5TCusVs7o5iwXY/npMWqtv/p2caDv1B2CDaqFpTyQgm/97IJEmDU8FAISd+8KQhH 7XksjeFIQpFIKslpo9JNTQuVHPm6Xo7tf0l800Lx5AIRKZQBacoQFb9MA30MknU0cDDKoD ce/VIPXiAzVY2zBvPYs+MWi4U0c455F8eAYm1rEU1LHB090aq8neOzfpqc5U09dMPPUI0P OSbPhrIMa/H3JmlQTwgJepmF610f5pI73MAtBbc6xta2eunE/35LDwg2nBI7eOWpra/bg3 Zid//XbidpZvZ00m5OAise/mnIJyrXyoQ//Epf5l3YtwZ7QcjU7EASN1NDiuTw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765159405; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=w+eHdo+jCOdx3gKePToXFw0f9jWzWz61HGnAenpE3yY=; b=bDw59IEWIwJNIg/3X34mwimlbdKAH3gqShFGMsGeES+Cu0G88/xq8aF8NSABk2pNv6bJIW MWJXa2IbkCA2xBl8xRpFKwBjN9iRWjtV7+KY9SC0SrLzDojL0yGobxY5OesjRIoJT6pP/R vs3fDWJXGa9GS04pAGMtXVPTjtEPc3aYubtU9cEObIrEIzgyFxrOq3P+OOP9ttFYWGQqly ++RTL/Ublpv2ocAPLYzJEHnhelNcaD991il9KpWaqAyF4bzW5N4QThZ84cZOe7mOviTild xFTGq4jPmZzuifA0uagBej6K0Li3JHCGGfHx0Oftj9krneirni8bScVfuAhWqA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1765159405; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=irq9jOm7yw9UNnTWjlAjnqbuDLntUQ0M+iFrebII47OexHbpU6Y7ZZqfvfCQM3s1hsvmT/ +UfkxU3JcmrnG2nsmts2mwDGLmNLhak2f3oX2bn0WyNofMZVvUe8KC+U7UMeyL6EpK7Rza TDXOhUZ4N74br1uWbV3H2M+bjMZMTbT0bLOcIbWibb2nPadWVjmoY87grboViSoupu2DGn yUzrgiABbFHxxvx7lNINow5CvsOVvpOp9+xmAse3kf2XKV2l/cwUQDj4WigeCZXMYVs+2/ PK96474q/6bnr3ESeFloUD/qNJ0SY+WgWy0/nS5VWD5Yuvj7h8N6QZWYISdC2Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ltc.des.dev (lfbn-nan-1-698-103.w86-236.abo.wanadoo.fr [86.236.35.103]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: des) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4dPld906Y8zrZm; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 02:03:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: by ltc.des.dev (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9F8138EE25; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 03:03:23 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Rozhuk Ivan Cc: Konstantin Belousov , Mateusz Guzik , Warner Losh , Mark Millard , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , brooks@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 In-Reply-To: <20251208035105.2313075d@rimwks.local> (Rozhuk Ivan's message of "Mon, 8 Dec 2025 03:51:05 +0200") References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <20251208035105.2313075d@rimwks.local> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2025 03:03:23 +0100 Message-ID: <86sedlg26s.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rozhuk Ivan writes: > there is no any crappy libprivateclang.so/libprivatellvm.so shared libs: > > # ldd /usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19 > /usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19: > libthr.so.3 =3D> /lib/libthr.so.3 (0x801063000) > libclang-cpp.so.19.1 =3D> /usr/local/llvm19/bin/../lib/libclang-cpp.so.1= 9.1 (0x801200000) > libLLVM.so.19.1 =3D> /usr/local/llvm19/bin/../lib/libLLVM.so.19.1 (0x805= c00000) they're right ^^^ here % ls -sS /usr/local/llvm19/lib/*.so.19.1 | head -2 58817 /usr/local/llvm19/lib/libLLVM.so.19.1 31821 /usr/local/llvm19/lib/libclang-cpp.so.19.1 % ls -sS /usr/lib/*.so.19 | head -2 42593 /usr/lib/libprivatellvm.so.19 32065 /usr/lib/libprivateclang.so.19 DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@FreeBSD.org From nobody Mon Dec 8 02:38:05 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPmPM5gnJz6JlLv for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 02:38:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com (mail-ed1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::531]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPmPM2zqvz3Yv7 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 02:38:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-644f90587e5so5661538a12.0 for ; Sun, 07 Dec 2025 18:38:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765161489; x=1765766289; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=Nb4p/cFMh5rZvC5ZoVXcKCxNNhe8SnxyaON4xFlF1Tk=; b=KvOLi9oWvWGF9r77xPC1/p4JcKJ9tqob4xqvFY4bU8ZgP4t9w3svZo17UbgVVO6FDG N2vawCI14oQyvX55XV/P6B648luZcpqV1Hs1xxgWZPn3i7SXK+/dPSP2tqnAYgo0tkUr Iri34AUzCYzRwQHDGTtHcfQ5Bz+ghxrRtRVKPrDrwjR5d6KpXXyV38bsvrVEZc/bmwSX wjqztLY1Y9Enkfff64K/7fUTFD8rIqF2DljaYohqC/u7tlIfHeeiuRTLq1RZyauWDnuh n5qPRCt8eKmzMAsDCHDaKNfcxn1OhC9fdd6dGNl7lb8a8uWc93UkK82REj1UPtiKYlCu WMbQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765161489; x=1765766289; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Nb4p/cFMh5rZvC5ZoVXcKCxNNhe8SnxyaON4xFlF1Tk=; b=DUCJFgbkXz8z64UOIs+WUATarLK91ozsxKPukktPDaXz6Ss/EKP4DUoZdGJJryHFyK i3iZHly4WLoRJT2SwMNdgsyFJ0ojPdXojSJ929ShF7LkWSQMt/lxDkSC1o2v5XSqgpiE 4XAkfwkZOK+qVN+4LFEIQG0fjZGBJP0TL36bDWlzc04igZSTfLPH2U7UnrxYFYSMLFiP vn1q/HMcwBonSl+jAPX2f3/LeVYGtSFDLn7OX4OwZpV1TMM98tucR/0DDMIOM46gpv0r IJcgudzoOUZH6XQ9E6bGxaaIsWHDu/z5VRbBXe9ALO8q+t37XKhn6ahjeeQVVTIVs/ds 6hPw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVFnF2qBURVYRnm/oN56q7XLZM67zs7QDWLT30TsgR/lecZoqnU0m8U0NpM5Ori542H4SZQZwIBg2hZKbSuI4I=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzwNzzWHnxQDf7xkU5pbrNBc9kPVt34e5uxxj9cp5j103MZhIFu vfVoNM2spIZxhqrPsvJYzTvXUnnZYYTbTxKs0BD/XP575tF6JthpmD2L X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctU8uoFTs/NJ94exrsi2cbxieA3iawB/YGmIeMplL2joN1rbrFKpk2nBgrJghV 31ynL+qKkLB3NXYa98LJsNIAne/dzuriGmoLh3tPLm7duA9d0RMfOtKWKWX0a3rw02DdhmyUTvT erj9M0bhC9QQnaU+Q4qmXygcsdYQdVk+HteF9MMk6OoyUN9u4EHqv94efcZfzT3diW0Vc3r2IsA OFtXOvSPyVPN8Cy1eEUwfPxCLWB0QVyWw5qKPCx2lFenS5I5VVha4yTKUiYLTrwLzQ1F01kV4PS 7vHubtNEr4CPgoi7xuAcKKFFWJZNB/r8BHoapJUkJSluMwjKDa4CKeGvTnTlZH0/KQFB/JBTkmJ AgG6zrx0raCNGbg8703VNmehTIOulnJoEUhoqXJQm+Q4AkoF+K46hlhGGfBM/9kzesUsBL1dltM /SZbGyzsLSp71a1+T56esktuvq X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEx2/FK8mjXiU5hzdiWy4t6w16JcPkpPpP6O5eHg7d3xmRPIALUJYHBqAlg6sEYRsyw8YsAJg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:34c8:b0:645:dc6b:40e with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-64919c1fa30mr4895627a12.9.1765161489055; Sun, 07 Dec 2025 18:38:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from rimwks.local ([2001:470:1f1b:4dc:f489:3de4:6515:f056]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-647b3599050sm9994460a12.17.2025.12.07.18.38.06 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Dec 2025 18:38:07 -0800 (PST) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 04:38:05 +0200 To: Konstantin Belousov Cc: Mateusz Guzik , Warner Losh , Mark Millard , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , brooks@freebsd.org Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 Message-ID: <20251208043805.40126e88@rimwks.local> In-Reply-To: References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <20251208035105.2313075d@rimwks.local> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.3.1 (GTK 3.24.51; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.3) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dPmPM2zqvz3Yv7 On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 03:59:17 +0200 Konstantin Belousov wrote: > > libLLVM.so.19.1 => /usr/local/llvm19/bin/../lib/libLLVM.so.19.1 > > (0x805c00000) > Did you noted this line? > > > libc++.so.1 => /lib/libc++.so.1 (0x801092000) > > libcxxrt.so.1 => /lib/libcxxrt.so.1 (0x80119b000) > > libm.so.5 => /lib/libm.so.5 (0x8011bd000) > > libc.so.7 => /lib/libc.so.7 (0x80d663000) > > librt.so.1 => /lib/librt.so.1 (0x805bcb000) > > libexecinfo.so.1 => /usr/lib/libexecinfo.so.1 (0x805bd4000) > > libz.so.6 => /lib/libz.so.6 (0x805bda000) > > libzstd.so.1 => /usr/local/lib/libzstd.so.1 (0x80d963000) > > libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x80da38000) > > libelf.so.2 => /lib/libelf.so.2 (0x80da59000) > > [vdso] (0x7ffffffff000) > > > > But > > # ls /usr/bin/cc > > -r-xr-xr-x 6 root wheel 82M Oct 19 18:10:39 2025 /usr/bin/cc* > > # ls /usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19 > > -rwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 125K Aug 18 06:43:31 2025 > > /usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19* So it dynamic linked.... > > .... > > And we found in port: > > CMAKE_ARGS= -DLLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB=ON > > CMAKE_ARGS+= -DLLVM_LINK_LLVM_DYLIB=ON > > (exist from first llvm6 372b8a151352984140f74c342a62eae2236b2c2c > > and copy-pasted to all next llvm~s by brooks@FreeBSD.org) Did you noted this lines? Without CMAKE_ARGS= -DLLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB=ON CMAKE_ARGS+= -DLLVM_LINK_LLVM_DYLIB=ON # ls /tmp/ports/usr/ports/devel/llvm19/work-default/stage/usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19 -rwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 164M Dec 8 04:23:13 2025 /tmp/ports/usr/ports/devel/llvm19/work-default/stage/usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19* # ldd /tmp/ports/usr/ports/devel/llvm19/work-default/stage/usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19 /tmp/ports/usr/ports/devel/llvm19/work-default/stage/usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19: ld-elf.so.1: /tmp/ports/usr/ports/devel/llvm19/work-default/stage/usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19: mmap of entire address space failed: Cannot allocate memory /tmp/ports/usr/ports/devel/llvm19/work-default/stage/usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19: exit status 1 > > According to: https://llvm.org/docs/CMake.html > > ============================================================================================= > > BUILD_SHARED_LIBS is only recommended for use by LLVM developers. > > If you want to build LLVM as a shared library, you should use the > > LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB option. > > ============================================================================================= > > > > So upstream DOES NOT RECOMMEND to build shared libs to users!!! > I am curious about the motivation. > > JFYI, shared llvm libs are required for lot of things. The incomplete > list of examples that I am aware of are dri drivers and ispc Intel > compiler. # grep -rsp "libLLVM.so" /usr/ports/ | grep '/Makefile' /usr/ports/devel/ispc/Makefile:LIB_DEPENDS= libLLVM.so:devel/llvm${LLVM_VERSION} \ /usr/ports/graphics/seexpr/Makefile:LLVM_LIB_DEPENDS= libLLVM.so:devel/llvm${LLVM_DEFAULT} # grep -rsp "LLVM_VERSION" /usr/ports/ | grep '/Makefile' | grep 'libLLVM' /usr/ports/audio/faust/Makefile:LIB_DEPENDS= libLLVM-${LLVM_VERSION}.so:devel/llvm${LLVM_VERSION} \ /usr/ports/lang/crystal/Makefile: libLLVM-${_LLVM_VERSION}.so:devel/llvm${_LLVM_VERSION} \ # grep -rsp 'llvm\${LLVM_VERSION}' /usr/ports/ | grep '/Makefile' /usr/ports/cad/nvc/Makefile:BUILD_DEPENDS= llvm-config${LLVM_VERSION}:devel/llvm${LLVM_VERSION} /usr/ports/devel/edi/Makefile:LIBCLANG_LIB_DEPENDS= libclang.so:devel/llvm${LLVM_VERSION} /usr/ports/devel/fccf/Makefile:CMAKE_ARGS= -DLLVM_DIR:STRING=${PREFIX}/llvm${LLVM_VERSION}/lib/cmake/llvm /usr/ports/devel/cppinsights/Makefile:CMAKE_ARGS= -DLLVM_CONFIG_PATH="${LOCALBASE}/llvm${LLVM_VERSION}/bin/llvm-config" /usr/ports/graphics/mesa-dri/Makefile.common:LDFLAGS+= -Wl,-rpath=${LOCALBASE}/llvm${LLVM_VERSION}/lib /usr/ports/lang/halide/Makefile:RUN_DEPENDS= llvm${LLVM_VERSION}>0:devel/llvm${LLVM_VERSION} /usr/ports/lang/lfortran/Makefile:CMAKE_ARGS= -DLLVM_INSTALL_DIR:PATH="${LOCALBASE}/llvm${LLVM_VERSION}" \ /usr/ports/lang/pocl/Makefile: spirv-llvm-translator-llvm${LLVM_VERSION}>=${LLVM_VERSION}:devel/spirv-llvm-translator@llvm${LLVM_VERSION} \ /usr/ports/lang/pocl/Makefile: -DWITH_LLVM_CONFIG="${LOCALBASE}/llvm${LLVM_VERSION}/bin/llvm-config" /usr/ports/math/symengine/Makefile:LLVM_BUILD_DEPENDS= llvm${LLVM_VERSION}>0:devel/llvm${LLVM_VERSION} Ok, shared lib required for some ports. Nice to have static linked executables + shared lib for ports that use it. But shared lib for llvm in base is not used, no reason to build llvm in base with shared lib, since it only used to compile world+kernel. From nobody Mon Dec 8 02:40:01 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPmRb2Rh6z6JlXw for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 02:40:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x62e.google.com (mail-ej1-x62e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPmRZ5xq6z3Zwg for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 02:40:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ej1-x62e.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b713c7096f9so588170566b.3 for ; Sun, 07 Dec 2025 18:40:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765161606; x=1765766406; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=x2VvTxP4lokJ7bIojMCqPFmeapdF8ukPsBn3sGKl+HQ=; b=Sft5qY5NlvplEWopXuGYRYuyJJrP5PyKRZHLEeleJe3ST/o4Etvf4W7h4C6dvGa9NX 74bNKXH+WAERiaSxRs8qv8fSAeqSGrVW4DLIxg9U8fE1941IYZWg9oBpuHFk3Oid+MBU ETaiI/VxFl8mIzoaaXutGw9Rc7V/bwqWhMpNt4GnPFjlhbA12Q9mTgqH6jmfPBM0gppl fUqLnRisn1Z4H7qaP2jOt530YYmMo38W57TLXF+YGwq5bBFTxcG+yVo27ZNoqWaqZoKI Nd/1hJc3XFnYjcef0ql07Jisxj+6lWwAjPD4m8Ny7tu+OFKCsijZd1xa2A9MZJN6ecwm 2scA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765161606; x=1765766406; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=x2VvTxP4lokJ7bIojMCqPFmeapdF8ukPsBn3sGKl+HQ=; b=LkNyhk7waORtIR0ZLzd5kckRwzscjvFO2gQLpAp+2djAdxWy0tU7I6AsRiht54LmUo t+z4sVXT85ZJ32GtzkWs5mS9wPR7pmtwU2BGoygFvyD0ObYorj03WdSuvV39UEiEHnSj 5lKnV8sKk1EFsGta/RSf8rFqcTsSTOT3z9KYnEF0VCJdERBLD24xub5EbiRX+UEeDUI2 ElaqYFsX+QcM7fhrYWcPIHqazPDm+1GYNclWFWcCBQP6jSQA5WaCVRvXu30jUtmRCgdg kzjljzQKsDdrO1kvQ6vS0kWz/f9oQkscXc4nCmpFXQ9TwkVzEAa59i9OKsiJds8MsYNu JDsQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXtXRrFUNepGjA+KRbCOT/jghImGwfCKkc4Kpj7YdkqnmQH3VyJ/qIonurvkHrPHA4+cOJuDprRfksCYZ2Y61Q=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwPsDQCvkCU2ynlHOwKkO13m8xQU5AfakdR5iOdGkEb2wg+8K8j cuan8PYpU9mkwYr5wUvfwIQqk+Fr34sXwtIg0RHasykZPjK9bH4jA+iO X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsh0S7t2NhnZV7TopruuS+4uByeiwYZjV9vAOLhyseGObqkT2Iz1sSwOH+99wO ZuIkoGIQS85e9CgR/ysmrcbeIg7PhZ70+BN+RbQ3umb3aj9TTadjS0vSa61NoxjGiGQVPj6WRzO kUlGdYvuiN7dib+VgBS6hnKb+AjtJPyNN/MNndcVY60FxSVALu/4fsJdaxiCoYjYY+S6DFAIqSr VuZSSqxtgiNSaM8BT1kJoaYjixxFvaXvfdHmIqsyO/+d5c7DBYygkUXFxkXdhAU0f0wcfa+9ZcF 714RiuXVeQuEUuquEXvVzavqr+j4iJEuJC2J51e2AYqmO7uO3iU9J4wo93sPjtye8fw5y0ZsetF rGQMMWwoMR7uU55VNoX3yBDkx7d0RLZb2Gaa+XnsGcG0ay9u5QHNMf/5PFfn1cvUYnJo8h9e/D6 WZWlL818kORoeT44q9zpjncCup X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEnh70kKzq1P7/3/r000/9YIz179xHG2/sfeXld+dESyJqdBXrrxfTn/sP0mpjadKTOz3FZdg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:9411:b0:b70:df0d:e2e9 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b7a24827969mr620261366b.44.1765161605424; Sun, 07 Dec 2025 18:40:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from rimwks.local ([2001:470:1f1b:4dc:f489:3de4:6515:f056]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-647b412dec1sm9692055a12.30.2025.12.07.18.40.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Dec 2025 18:40:03 -0800 (PST) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 04:40:01 +0200 To: Dag-Erling =?UTF-8?B?U23DuHJncmF2?= Cc: Konstantin Belousov , Mateusz Guzik , Warner Losh , Mark Millard , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , brooks@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 Message-ID: <20251208044001.089d8763@rimwks.local> In-Reply-To: <86sedlg26s.fsf@ltc.des.dev> References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <20251208035105.2313075d@rimwks.local> <86sedlg26s.fsf@ltc.des.dev> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.3.1 (GTK 3.24.51; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.3) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dPmRZ5xq6z3Zwg T24gTW9uLCAwOCBEZWMgMjAyNSAwMzowMzoyMyArMDEwMA0KRGFnLUVybGluZyBTbcO4cmdyYXYg PGRlc0BGcmVlQlNELm9yZz4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCj4gUm96aHVrIEl2YW4gPHJvemh1ay5pbUBnbWFp bC5jb20+IHdyaXRlczoNCj4gPiB0aGVyZSBpcyBubyBhbnkgY3JhcHB5IGxpYnByaXZhdGVjbGFu Zy5zby9saWJwcml2YXRlbGx2bS5zbyBzaGFyZWQNCj4gPiBsaWJzOg0KPiA+DQo+ID4gIyBsZGQg L3Vzci9sb2NhbC9sbHZtMTkvYmluL2NsYW5nLTE5DQo+ID4gL3Vzci9sb2NhbC9sbHZtMTkvYmlu L2NsYW5nLTE5Og0KPiA+IAlsaWJ0aHIuc28uMyA9PiAvbGliL2xpYnRoci5zby4zICgweDgwMTA2 MzAwMCkNCj4gPiAJbGliY2xhbmctY3BwLnNvLjE5LjEgPT4NCj4gPiAvdXNyL2xvY2FsL2xsdm0x OS9iaW4vLi4vbGliL2xpYmNsYW5nLWNwcC5zby4xOS4xICgweDgwMTIwMDAwMCkNCj4gPiBsaWJM TFZNLnNvLjE5LjEgPT4gL3Vzci9sb2NhbC9sbHZtMTkvYmluLy4uL2xpYi9saWJMTFZNLnNvLjE5 LjENCj4gPiAoMHg4MDVjMDAwMDApICANCj4gDQo+IHRoZXkncmUgcmlnaHQgXl5eIGhlcmUNCj4g DQo+ICUgbHMgLXNTIC91c3IvbG9jYWwvbGx2bTE5L2xpYi8qLnNvLjE5LjEgfCBoZWFkIC0yDQo+ IDU4ODE3IC91c3IvbG9jYWwvbGx2bTE5L2xpYi9saWJMTFZNLnNvLjE5LjENCj4gMzE4MjEgL3Vz ci9sb2NhbC9sbHZtMTkvbGliL2xpYmNsYW5nLWNwcC5zby4xOS4xDQo+ICUgbHMgLXNTIC91c3Iv bGliLyouc28uMTkgfCBoZWFkIC0yDQo+IDQyNTkzIC91c3IvbGliL2xpYnByaXZhdGVsbHZtLnNv LjE5DQo+IDMyMDY1IC91c3IvbGliL2xpYnByaXZhdGVjbGFuZy5zby4xOQ0KPiANCj4gREVTDQoN ClllYSBhbmQgdGhleSBoYXZlIGNvbnN1bWVycyBvdXRzaWRlIGxsdm0gcG9ydC4NCmxpYnByaXZh dGVsbHZtL2xpYnByaXZhdGVjbGFuZyAtIHVzZWQgb25seSBieSBsbHZtIGluIGJhc2UuDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Dec 8 03:14:39 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPnCb2dcQz6Jp3x for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 03:14:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x532.google.com (mail-ed1-x532.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::532]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPnCZ63Qbz3fTp for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 03:14:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ed1-x532.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-640b06fa959so6519722a12.3 for ; Sun, 07 Dec 2025 19:14:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765163683; x=1765768483; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=1DzKiEvqyv7kktlR/XMNP/DDViXwa0VM9f86UUnZmWQ=; b=mWrTqKZoKsaR8DqOCkCouLodfVpvbSDoxyjANvvWq2T27SkBLgSGhpeBV7Ud6yeNPR IVFMAov8T5BPaSXFj0AfEvSMRWk2ziMQGbMpEeMWr0Ak4S3KiU66Jsv2caJFDo9o87pM 4oVi5Y+eSGFfCizUi9KY2G6pTx/TfzNaBCnOclYbXPmwcReW9LYriL7Os4hR8bIiR/7P nLdp62zfalaQv6roNVHTMZY1yHhEweZDX2NdQ0/aCg+M4PCtwP0QkAdr8mH9nSLLRfhQ VjcwIrvpt4FnJhR4IIlffs2ixYOOdJfuyuLHXddiC2BndbXBBJ1ylG+JRva2jpo/D+K1 ZLfw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765163683; x=1765768483; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=1DzKiEvqyv7kktlR/XMNP/DDViXwa0VM9f86UUnZmWQ=; b=ug2kOis878pZLiQolG4H1lMum0y8/FF1a8jrqaOpzpybuceg5rLs5tzkLcTCrdFhRB m0uzwdp9XNhs23YG0dRWElXl+KW5u+a5uGemJG8m2Nc7LAV1bjLYz1CdleMVc8LURI1y zCc636yGacwaQqjikjl/UTN3QdvkX3sEjWwz+0QvUU3wRO3PN7Devgll4Uk225IWqbb/ OTsMQs2Ir69X/KnKW8KMs9H/NveESbeIyNvyFMj4feXhO5Mj1+2syQ8pEI/eWu64og3z G+EJ8Lvv3zzCDq6cac5GEU6oK6jxdqg2hauYzzjOJ5K0+tyLoyzYG9WT09WIxKKtL81i a6qA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCU98PcKzXC5ohjcqBltrxRBg4PtCK1qGR2vipJ9/GIK98iw7HD3GqNfh0PALmudoSyR8Qq+GQIsYV+nJtz2th8=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw3lCZSTeHvbRXZwZbE5ioBBz0oYxlDydDrt4tNnGywcQgVShBy 83Wg16ikEVZVBapvsbVnpYRLh02UJkfmFOHqu+3XBdJsxqLFJCBEVjY4 X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct4ZfFdVU/0pFELFR5tKLBfFJIywweF0RSfq923UUDRMaUvtMWlwG2GtFJB0gn uS2A7BPAVgcE/A2PEfbHqfkWbwNetEcJldbRhZcpZg5sJfn/34xdFf9zOaYPEo1eQqfxCUhzsVh EPbKe+KyLhi8hYL9xR8G63yUSeIp9ka658Eo9z94Bu5DEolWOvJhz8mKdYbAVYxHVxPnlkqrGz4 ClsfDu5dGOIXZE1I1rq9w1Q1p+eX2oPpGD6E3VqXHNSe/ulvSP5tWdlyz3qhPLY0vCxsJYyM4BC EKVUXUVhus5XCidDOhxNHzb+/7aeE3sszE9Q3jndjVE9+HydKfU2J2KkNfZDIGyT27D1F5V0Ivi MzuphyUC67WZiI9eitep8S1VCXeGYe61pGqx2fBgYZftQHCAWafsw4+qH9LixihQPAc90Nbb5QO k1oGaBYpSMnWlEzQHg84hNiUjw X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHj8V9ZM7zzJb9UxDAvxP7SV6tfUxRdepOQs1OhoQoQQ2K2hDgFt1SZmRIBKzUqAV/SP1utIA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:4314:b0:640:976f:13b0 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-6491a3e1fe8mr5307219a12.12.1765163683353; Sun, 07 Dec 2025 19:14:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from rimwks.local ([2001:470:1f1b:4dc:f489:3de4:6515:f056]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-647b368dcf8sm10170804a12.19.2025.12.07.19.14.40 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Dec 2025 19:14:41 -0800 (PST) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 05:14:39 +0200 To: Konstantin Belousov Cc: Mateusz Guzik , Warner Losh , Mark Millard , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , brooks@freebsd.org Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 Message-ID: <20251208051439.7c6a2c1a@rimwks.local> In-Reply-To: References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <20251208035105.2313075d@rimwks.local> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.3.1 (GTK 3.24.51; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.3) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dPnCZ63Qbz3fTp On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 03:59:17 +0200 Konstantin Belousov wrote: > > So upstream DOES NOT RECOMMEND to build shared libs to users!!! > I am curious about the motivation. > > JFYI, shared llvm libs are required for lot of things. The incomplete > list of examples that I am aware of are dri drivers and ispc Intel > compiler. > For ports: LLVM_LINK_LLVM_DYLIB:BOOL If enabled, tools will be linked with the libLLVM shared library. Defaults to OFF. Setting LLVM_LINK_LLVM_DYLIB to ON also sets LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB to ON. This option is not available on Windows. I do turn if off (to upstream default state): # ls /tmp/ports/usr/ports/devel/llvm19/work-default/stage/usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19 -rwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 164M Dec 8 05:04:41 2025 /tmp/ports/usr/ports/devel/llvm19/work-default/stage/usr/local/llvm19/bin/clang-19* # find /tmp/ports -name "*libLLVM.so*" /tmp/ports/usr/ports/devel/llvm19/work-default/stage/usr/local/llvm19/lib/libLLVM.so.19.1 /tmp/ports/usr/ports/devel/llvm19/work-default/stage/usr/local/llvm19/lib/libLLVM.so /tmp/ports/usr/ports/devel/llvm19/work-default/.build/lib/libLLVM.so.19.1 /tmp/ports/usr/ports/devel/llvm19/work-default/.build/lib/libLLVM.so # make package ===> Building packages for llvm19-19.1.7_1 ===> Building llvm19-19.1.7_1 (no errors here) So ports also can be and should be staticly linked and it should not brake anything. From nobody Mon Dec 8 07:37:38 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPv341L8kz6K6vC for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 07:37:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (udns.ultimatedns.net [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R12" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPv332zkXz42kl for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 07:37:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdforge.com header.s=bsdforge header.b=gKmrJH7Z; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bsd-lists@bsdforge.com designates 24.113.41.81 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 5B87bcQk024826 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 2025 23:37:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=bsdforge.com; s=bsdforge; t=1765179464; x=1765180064; r=y; bh=uVk3cR/pYEXmtg/SGI0hcKasV+RYq1u2iQ6nBz5EFUY=; h=Date:From:To:Subject; b=gKmrJH7Zs0b5kZyRAvmTEE35DZExoaNSQUh/N+Jo2KzQfRzsmu5Xw+bQ8blJCTZqI f4b6k10jggZwFXVNFPmt9N89a2ShW8iSVS7evxJaOIewBK6weqrW6A9PuBPzyf4o1f Qkl0pThRG6jSdV/pWfwGmCqrh3McQls1lFl4pT+OD8V/iQcxjdnae8xJp40A17enBN WkGGRyLn6j0NlrPoPJ6NZDg5OZFmmpRE36l2ia3IUhEmHNuisjZ2UpJKxqVwDaNqV+ 9WNYkZPa9vZnOKWDjwvtlYJc6BrOQ9AxVY0z+9LNEfgTK3Bm4Z9dhzTDqUgP4sp2H+ aaEURlFBoIVFQ== List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2025 23:37:38 -0800 From: Chris To: freebsd-current Subject: What happened to 16? User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <7a177da4388cde549e152e0ac8d13ab1@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_b2aadf9e68b6d9f874837e58f2707ef1" X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.80 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdforge.com:s=bsdforge]; MIME_UNKNOWN(0.10)[application/pgp-keys]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; local_wl_ip(0.00)[24.113.41.81]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdforge.com:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=multimap; Matched map: local_wl_ip X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dPv332zkXz42kl --=_b2aadf9e68b6d9f874837e58f2707ef1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I just got a new laptop and tried to boot 13.5,14 and 15 but it hangs at the video -- something about loosing contact with sc. So I went to get a copy of 16. But download.freebsd.org doesn't know where it is. All the links to it from FreeBSD.org return 404. So where is it? Thanks! :-) -- There is no such place as the internet --=_b2aadf9e68b6d9f874837e58f2707ef1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xE512722F.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xE512722F.asc; size=3074 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGf/G0IBCADARuJc6IcwOe3jv7dQsP1X/EIHvCFExPbTmlMNFMXbMMccQUnV o8ayEn+wmTvPhw7uL3PDk7DQs16W1sN2b8UMFc804cVWNGtoG3rA+Np+TFEYlXJx eh5Q42VHptkuwzHKl+q2utkpRlS7uHyfjsInQAoHxLyi/wrsaZTHHhDbLLhJ5Ez0 arohQ2Q1w0M5e9rW8Fy5rpC7RpC6uO1SZMxcbdqURI/BBqxbiD1iW62cDWFkfFX+ dtaEXghFV7BIBMDSrgIunGoEfdMZgXys7O6bPWn8z0cuOZIPj4HrjoCYARyQ+sdc rjz/k06SLM/UvEZDorJhT4DbYrwMNvaPWJiPABEBAAG0HkNocmlzIDxic2QtbGlz dHNAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBNQQQAQgAHwUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgEC GQECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci8bSwf/fK3QcTYXRMrv82HIp4SiGCSD7/bRmyWr ipv2vzknGFHxPBN4AEWIqF/U4j5oDXaodyU6xsy59Z47/lgbyzyZiVR6nmJVgZVf el/EgwnLt7ZuYGLLEhIN2pd9itJkB8PMPZrUHMWgIw8BxX5YFYGuyiNe9pGn0Coj 98t/v3fouhqksH+BpB4TBHJBBDSxSiMm66VTJX4Xcnpf0ZnQVP4GBuoyodnFBfdI wqftPLESsCC08lUhD2j7v2NRWwMi/q3ed8D6VCKPImBByYnBZL5gu56K5bwqaQfN itu06APuIYnG71qxgn1EPO63lovWP5NZGgOKvzs3K+JfPF79BiOUFbQjQ2hyaXMg PG1haWxvcEBocmNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zLm5ldD6JATEEEAEIABwFAmf/G0IGCwkH CAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvBH8H9RGwzZuU6+zvH1WjQa97 yWpEt9rC+BIBJThev2Cpls2LqBqIeIQVZPnyLAZWgFaiezL6+xbvcNt6OnfidIYa x8iRwCMC6/Bs8H2Wef9qfGxXi+jHPLYQk3juiZVmBhIK6FJZkzaW4wSiawofwzbp zqNxO8dZ0j4foaJZrNi8iqsvKjiiHoSFaJtumIThAeydI18CNLeFaS53sk5nad6I wCYeFKmJ/22dMP7DOFEgyG1iNYgY+AGREMkEsBiLpqYjJ5asK+1UdUy/TRly1hOt HHxCiX0Fh9ZYM2vLIj7sq4LKaMPGeYC3qTqBYugVeyz7LkiI2ft/BKveA5JxuYKk ZrQiQ2hyaXMgPG5hbm9nQGhyY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMubmV0PokBMgQQAQgAHAUC Z/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci+4Bwf8D0Ogk2/X ud/CsAgHozwzKPqfesL5SRWM14hLnU9/EHoplnZgNexbVY1wXIi2FYPo5cve9QxW Nmt3S3UTF9j2fGqv0wmeHv3EqogFUHnftLyWpbeTPOFDMIQp/BOD6ygfeXxXWxRT L6zvUkSrDtHvkQHPWGRxwP+ihWjpw9AQR/R4/qAuTAZZM0O7UnJEo4mWXatl+utF wegG2giwFTTxfF+1rMpFtUDjYCpRQ6ZmE+gC1mHUMoH7GJMQv12DbqwKrxtwGfd0 AJNO3ZDnxl24BmIfl1YqQGZQ5iIH7At4YItESbU45hoNNsG9oDrsil78EUCAtXHd UPScj+eXaeAkgrQfQ2hyaXMgPHBvcnRtYXN0ZXJAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBMgQQ AQgAHAUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci9o7Af+ Lwu5hJlI5HZNGwAll7QTIFZVW+y4OEg+amhxTDGbAAqlnSIkHC1KgkmIOOrThme3 kTFCqfIIsuP73yKxHq6kRG0zH5/7asAPNAUOfzD7B2o/gMyuTRKyG5r9f3UmACr4 6qvtFhIwROXr6+NNT2IKg3l0/8F58A0N/TR8D2PTHeo4x6jYcZQDCrCy7BAdk3cu V16k4z/1UzRa07b5McezbWL20cIaZ+dqNcCjKZpzPlTyTCGgrNNtaDpNVhoWUKMB YNcKql+tfC1IpX8l+IU6OBKcDKMkQojvO1QrZqY8MDJGo8jq/CtotQ8+IpAai3Bx dQEsxrxlcKTR4rUqvd8VGbkBDQRn/xtCAQgAv5Nv/aQN72xsLik+K73PJwpUmyhu vnI6stM6dSecylXVHjZ7C4n/m0eQEeQCl+9lByHR9N8H+WS3DtAd4pmciiIxRQLA JZiuaLYcy9ziy1h7130VoR7hhJHzo9FIhWkTGlCDX3egUZrYhMiwFUO8lNltLB8o TBvIrMSsnUzawtQjq/otv0Jf+oBPbG+gIYnAm7w6r86n/l+eVxf5eEoS7wV0DJfp b2jE5zWErWk8I/tq4e8T+1VQeVQR6wz+NrUCSxkPkpNAm19AFUHOk//yvMGWVlDW F6gr3ErN2a0w/kZ0lz3Msxsb87QT+MnJf/T3cuEqdTIoSk74BfNEAdMohQARAQAB iQEfBBgBCAAJBQJn/xtCAhsMAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvyvIH/26zytSVNDaxtprg7XtX LerIWf9RyVx8omCw/lXKRCcgkfwD7QR+nSZ0thWOGMpcnivjuReeVRkz/webUF47 BXJ/Tge07nrxdtyTIHBbp35fPIriaKaII6YWc2Ufdxwv+cD8PADS6gQWAlgrWLmn VmYtyHs4kwtiPZyUyuBdWnZal2GyYY0WVwYjvbk95eInwOaIdoTjesJ7ZhUFu155 r4hh9GlvM0uv8WJ5Mw9wvHa5fIM205I5g0IWC7yvTwwwKHlV4JQQOqMwfv569OEl 1GKqA12nSVziB1+UV+I0NqOABWi/MOi+IySPzYP+XgdPfRNx4vmoHYZwWOQ3t4Jd TEM= =oj6y -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --=_b2aadf9e68b6d9f874837e58f2707ef1-- From nobody Mon Dec 8 07:45:40 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPvDF5cVpz6K7Ty; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 07:45:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPvDF3Cbpz441Y; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 07:45:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F02F0D7892; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 07:45:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.18.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 5B87jeIN025646; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 07:45:40 GMT (envelope-from phk) Message-Id: <202512080745.5B87jeIN025646@critter.freebsd.dk> To: Konstantin Belousov cc: Rozhuk Ivan , Mateusz Guzik , Warner Losh , Mark Millard , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , brooks@freebsd.org Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 In-reply-to: From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <20251208035105.2313075d@rimwks.local> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <25644.1765179940.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2025 07:45:40 +0000 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1835, ipnet:130.225.0.0/16, country:EU] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dPvDF3Cbpz441Y -------- Konstantin Belousov writes: > JFYI, shared llvm libs are required for lot of things. The incomplete > list of examples that I am aware of are dri drivers and ispc Intel compiler. But installing the shared libs for those other users, does not mean we have to link the compiler itself against the shared lib ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From nobody Mon Dec 8 08:33:55 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPwJT3H2Zz6KBG2 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 08:34:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@walstatt-de.de) Received: from smtp052.goneo.de (smtp5.goneo.de [IPv6:2001:1640:5::8:30]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPwJS3ZNGz485k; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 08:34:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@walstatt-de.de) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=walstatt-de.de header.s=DKIM001 header.b=AgfAonBK; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@walstatt-de.de designates 2001:1640:5::8:30 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@walstatt-de.de Received: from hub1.goneo.de (hub1.goneo.de [IPv6:2001:1640:5::8:52]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp5.goneo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFB2F240911; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 09:34:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from hub1.goneo.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub1.goneo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2417E240453; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 09:34:23 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=walstatt-de.de; s=DKIM001; t=1765182863; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=7spPg+MZQMUNB9nnUZ0cL2EsY7nFRyrMWZZlS69MmPQ=; b=AgfAonBKIq2u9SChEQ2aNXvUa18sK/99AdQXJo78nmPkO253b26SkR3uenSfPJX2jGaxZ2 8mX/MtB9A9+1tzeba7VPniGAqgNhgTADluJRA/0aQUh4k4/RAjWCSLYtf4XiLRFULP4NgO gcFxdwc2x5NYv8Eocu9ibvcXonyBBj3aoRcflOCsUFZEu7KA+ah3A6ORjcSSWhoA0o+BWg M3ORkWNABQgprqKnPfG+a9h7C+VjtMb+UdKImocvSYEQSa4Vchi41DRzsmAo7ffZDmI/GM lLXIax/21/JFI1tBFLC0ymJBF3O9UDGFSNVLfTwIdIUrmrmmkOaUx50hZCwM2Q== Received: from thor.sb211.local (dynamic-2a02-3100-197c-7402-021b-21ff-fe4e-8f4d.310.pool.telefonica.de [IPv6:2a02:3100:197c:7402:21b:21ff:fe4e:8f4d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (prime256v1) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by hub1.goneo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CF24A2402A4; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 09:34:22 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 09:33:55 +0100 From: A FreeBSD User To: Ronald Klop Cc: FreeBSD CURRENT , Dag-Erling =?UTF-8?B?U23DuHJncmF2?= Subject: Re: 15-STABLE: dhclient fails on em0 (Lenovo T580) Message-ID: <20251208092705.617ddd01@thor.sb211.local> In-Reply-To: <1485528976.4376.1764845495552@localhost> References: <20251128082630.3dbea678@hermann> <20251128110534.3987f908@hermann> <86fr9yie5u.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <20251201132649.5aef71e8@thor.sb211.local> <86a500hdbu.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <20251203101500.36545493@hermann> <1585113262.3581.1764757070010@localhost> <20251203113526.398dfc6c@thor.sb211.local> <1485528976.4376.1764845495552@localhost> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.21.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd16.0) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/MSNdpLs507739eiH4TG9uIf"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Rspamd-UID: c8a7f3 X-Rspamd-UID: ffcd95 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.68 / 15.00]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.983]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:1640:5::8:0/112]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[walstatt-de.de:s=DKIM001]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[2001:1640:5::8:30:from]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:25394, ipnet:2001:1640::/32, country:DE]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[walstatt-de.de]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[walstatt-de.de:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dPwJS3ZNGz485k --Sig_/MSNdpLs507739eiH4TG9uIf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am Tage des Herren Thu, 4 Dec 2025 11:51:35 +0100 (CET) Ronald Klop schrieb: Hello, > Hi, >=20 > You have dhcp6c configured on a lagg0 interface, and the lagg0 interface = is created, but not > configured anywhere in your configuration. But your problem is about IPv4= and not IPv6. So > it might not be related. But it makes me wonder about your config. that shouldn't have any impact on IPv4 on em0 and/or wlan0. lagg0 is unused and a remnant from a prior used configuration aggregating e= m0 and wlan0 using alternatively LAN and WiFi. This worked with if_iwm, but diesn't with if_iw= lwifi - or doesn't work with 15 at all. It is unuse, but present ...=20 >=20 > I can't find in your log messages that dhclient is ever started. Me neither. But setting SYNCDHCP with the desired NIC solves - for now - th= e problem. Alternatively, setting 'synchronous_dhclient=3D"YES" ' does the same. On the console, I see a lot of UP and DOWN of the NIC (especially em0 with = my home switch), I see this with several switches at work, too, but there are other switches w= hich do not flap like hell. Maybe this is something worth to note herein. Some switches may = have some issues with negotiating the correct uplink speed, but at that point I can not fath= om why also OpenWRT based APs show the very same symptomes sometimes. Maybe this observation sh= ows some deeper issues ... > Can you try to configure ifconfig_em0=3D"SYNCDHCP" instead of "DHCP"? Tha= t should start > dhclient earlier and wait for the IP and must give output of dhclient. Pl= ease reply with the > console log output of that boot run. >=20 > To me your configuration looks really messy, so I'm sorry that I can't re= ally help you any > further. I can't easily figure out what you configured and what is still = the default. My > advice would be to remove all the defaults from your /etc/rc.conf and onl= y keep lines that > actually configure something. Well, apity, but my rc.conf is a straight forward copy of defaults/rc.conf = with changes according to my necessities at the bureau/lab. I can not memorize all tags = withing rc.conf, so having them in straight and plain sight is sometimes very convenient to ada= pt to new situations. I do not know how you folks proceed in such situations, any ide= a making life easier is welcome. As mentioned prior in this thread, I do a regular "sdiff " even when changi= ng minor versions. >=20 > I hope you figure out the issue some day. Thank you very much, your help was/is much appreciated!=20 >=20 > Regards, > Ronald. Kind regards, oh >=20 >=20 > =20 > Van: A FreeBSD User > Datum: woensdag, 3 december 2025 11:34 > Aan: Ronald Klop > CC: FreeBSD CURRENT , "Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rg= rav" > Onderwerp: Re: 15-STABLE: dhclient fails on em0 (Lenovo T580) > >=20 > > Am Tage des Herren Wed, 3 Dec 2025 11:17:50 +0100 (CET) > > Ronald Klop schrieb: > > =20 > > > Hi, > > > > > > Did you copy /etc/defaults/rc.conf to /etc/rc.conf? =20 > >=20 > > Yes, I do, since I change things on an experimental basis quite often. > >=20 > > That never induced any issue in the last decades using this kind of app= roach. Each variable > > set in defaults/rc.conf should be cleanly overriden via rc.conf and rc.= conf.local, > > shouldn't it? The only possible issue I could imagine is the order vari= ables appear and > > being processed by rc.subr and siblings ... or am I wrong? > >=20 > > Kind regards, > > oh =20 > > > > > > AFAIK, the idea is to only override settings from /etc/defaults/rc.co= nf in /etc/rc.conf. > > > My rc.conf is usually just 10 or 20 lines. Some network config and en= abling some > > > services. Like what you have in /etc/rc.conf.local. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Ronald. > > > > > > =20 > > > Van: FreeBSD User > > > Datum: woensdag, 3 december 2025 10:15 > > > Aan: "Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav" > > > CC: FreeBSD CURRENT > > > Onderwerp: Re: 15-STABLE: dhclient fails on em0 (Lenovo T580) =20 > > > > > > > > On Tue, 02 Dec 2025 20:51:33 +0100 > > > > Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav wrote: > > > > =20 > > > > > A FreeBSD User writes: =20 > > > > > > Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav writes: =20 > > > > > > > As a workaround, add this to /boot/loader.conf: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > net.inet.ip.fw.default_to_accept=3D"1" =20 > > > > > > the above "trick" doesn't help. =20 > > > > > > > > > > This is concerning. > > > > > > > > > > The fact that `dhclient em0` works after the firewall is up prove= s that > > > > > the firewall rules themselves are not the issue. I therefore ass= umed > > > > > that the problem was that dhclient was trying to acquire a lease = before > > > > > the firewall was configured. Switching default_to_accept on shou= ld have > > > > > made that possible. The fact that it doesn't means the firewall = isn't > > > > > to blame at all. Something else is causing dhclient not to run a= t boot. > > > > > > > > > > Could you please provide the output from the following command: > > > > > > > > > > grep -r '^[^#]' /etc/rc.conf* > > > > > > > > > > Could you please also provide a log of the boot messages, if poss= ible? > > > > > > > > > > DES =20 > > > > > > > > Having had a feeling that statically compiling in FIREWALL (ipw) su= pport into > > > > my kernel, I tested by excluding the appropritae lines and adding t= he > > > > /boot/loader.conf.local line again allow packets by default. Result= is the very > > > > same. > > > > > > > > Attached you'll find the requested files. > > > > > > > > A side note: I do etcupdate on a regular basis on all of the mainta= ined boxes. > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > oh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =20 > > > > > > =20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > --=20 > >=20 > > A FreeBSD user > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > =20 >=20 > =20 --=20 A FreeBSD user --Sig_/MSNdpLs507739eiH4TG9uIf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQRQheDybVktG5eW/1Kxzvs8OqokrwUCaTaNjgAKCRCxzvs8Oqok r53MAP0a4diS7emXBc0cje/xEeKboWURwbtrPfRZCAKKmmygnQEA/sQoFsdXaRBH /cKGkA25a16HAA2UikvxxhlmPqg7Fwk= =wqQJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/MSNdpLs507739eiH4TG9uIf-- From nobody Mon Dec 8 09:46:46 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPxvr4VR3z6KG1S for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 09:46:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPxvr3c63z4GtK for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 09:46:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765187208; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type; bh=LjV5xnnFFkGU2aBlrZBLeIwE/qxcFdUMQpr0Lbq0HP8=; b=rq/RIhOBw+S1I+Vf1iS+1hD2dLjnLgR7cHSkOATvdqY8sCOb8ikxRrxczMX2qJ0+ZFW2r2 KbD3hprMcC8DTyRvoJ4lVWUVx+Cf65g4/xCt3DzIVrFkeT6At2eKr7hMj39BIW2bJcWFzx spxl1lSU7rYpnXfpDMFBGoHkyf9q4j9fs9cZEu1NGg7o6sLGYiJLV4GDHCv0sAYO+e7e9+ aVhzSL6H4UgzrCIPnXfLvaYWcDPxTWozd+LTBiT/Vt/lHhWUcKMX1QSfuL+/tjXlTpztmC shb2Wc4JXwqqswsnaqtAMe6HVIMbPQm1a7fOHWXK/e4RiidHXU9aEG4/c0rHGQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765187208; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type; bh=LjV5xnnFFkGU2aBlrZBLeIwE/qxcFdUMQpr0Lbq0HP8=; b=p5vpbbIUbiL70qre5ALSf7PmW54yFAOTjVbUD7m2tbCRAwhUTp2QlIuZkhi/zP3G1EP1wd lCV4riNSWg26OK9PPI68F/L9DNWmq7Z3y0K+5kDE9uRd2+ppwiBXvrsD6At9mdzUcjzSYu v5Mwz4U3z2awc/6Z/s4T4wOKgniAQ/zq0pbN5SppNG0VXj1qZErmMnqGrTnKa5IHA2IHi6 NxiaQBQ/g35JlJ4ogbZ3L33EvB9TVtX6r4d7O3ustFNLwzRInUrRUisxOP0VjAe2bCJdnB KM0jBfSvqTJOJs4XF+KbuQV6HLkpAZctwUyS3DpjYdJbRq3j0IAXD3oaY0Fl5A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1765187208; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=S3kTMUhWL6JgF5uCdMMVZJlTQObQXdXNPQdr+BYkA08LGKaCZdJaqjf7i/b2yl33yzWNMd Q1n8EEn6MLEkFE9rnaZ1SGJfoNHsP5gSdSsbYBJsK/U2LThuMIaUes9pW2R6PFOyUqaYiJ 3Ol1UKNWd0NhPhthpdlJWv6jEWhzTfMY0UiqBlr0w2gKn9AaZCszeA95Z17BJ+bnw0o44G tGs5T2BqYC45GRLdd4wc7ND0LsbS3pkapwi05Pgf88FiALkS0W2ApE1VHcx2mbEgx5nxWa Yd4lUlxpdzBAjVb+yUW10juUuc6BlOUUsDfRWORWhR9Dh1ki+vxKDMcY/T6pKg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from mousie.catspoiler.org (unknown [76.212.85.177]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: truckman) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4dPxvr0Sg2z10Wn for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 09:46:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 01:46:46 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Subject: CURRENT buildworld broken To: FreeBSD CURRENT Message-ID: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Disposition: INLINE I'm attempting a source upgrade from a few week old version of -CURRENT. (wd now: /usr/src) %uname -a FreeBSD zipper.catspoiler.org 16.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT #12 main-n281982-c0a38339fec3: Tue Nov 18 02:17:06 PST 2025 dl@zipper.catspoiler.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/GENERIC amd64 zipper:src 170%git pull --rebase Already up to date. zipper:src 171%git log | head -1 commit f0ea859229843affe07ac94db915489756f87096 #make -j16 buildworld [snip] --- all_subdir_cddl --- ld: error: undefined reference: spl_pagesize >>> referenced by /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/usr/lib/libzutil.so (disallowed by --no-allow-shlib-undefined) ld: error: undefined reference: libspl_assertf >>> referenced by /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/usr/lib/libzutil.so (disallowed by --no-allow-shlib-undefined) ld: error: undefined reference: taskq_create >>> referenced by /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/usr/lib/libzutil.so (disallowed by --no-allow-shlib-undefined) ld: error: undefined reference: taskq_dispatch >>> referenced by /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/usr/lib/libzutil.so (disallowed by --no-allow-shlib-undefined) ld: error: undefined reference: taskq_wait >>> referenced by /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/usr/lib/libzutil.so (disallowed by --no-allow-shlib-undefined) ld: error: undefined reference: taskq_destroy >>> referenced by /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/usr/lib/libzutil.so (disallowed by --no-allow-shlib-undefined) --- all_subdir_lib --- --- all_subdir_lib/msun --- --- next_test.full --- cc -target x86_64-unknown-freebsd16.0 --sysroot=/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp -B/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/usr/bin -O2 -pipe -fno-common -DHAVE_FENV_H -I/usr/src/contrib/netbsd-tests/lib/libc/gen -D__HAVE_LONG_DOUBLE -fno-builtin -DLDBL_PREC=64 -fPIE -g -gz=zlib -std=gnu17 -Wno-format-zero-length -fstack-protector-strong -Wno-error=ignored-pragmas -Wsystem-headers -Werror -Wall -Wno-format-y2k -W -Wno-unused-parameter -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Wreturn-type -Wcast-qual -Wwrite-strings -Wswitch -Wshadow -Wunused-parameter -Wcast-align -Wchar-subscripts -Wnested-externs -Wold-style-definition -Wno-pointer-sign -Wdate-time -Wno-unknown-pragmas -Wmissing-variable-declarations -Wthread-safety -Wno-empty-body -Wno-string-plus-int -Wno-unused-const-variable -Wno-error=unused-but-set-parameter -Wno-error=cast-function-type-mismatch -Qunused-arguments -Wl,-zrelro -pie -o next_test.full next_test.pieo -lprivateatf-c -lm --- all_subdir_tests --- --- ftruncate_test.debug --- objcopy --only-keep-debug ftruncate_test.full ftruncate_test.debug --- ftruncate_test --- objcopy --strip-debug --add-gnu-debuglink=ftruncate_test.debug ftruncate_test.full ftruncate_test --- newfileops_on_fork_test --- (cd /usr/src/tests/sys/file && DEPENDFILE=.depend.newfileops_on_fork_test NO_SUBDIR=1 make -f /usr/src/tests/sys/file/Makefile _RECURSING_PROGS=t PROG=newfileops_on_fork_test ) --- all_subdir_usr.bin --- --- head.debug --- objcopy --only-keep-debug head.full head.debug --- head --- objcopy --strip-debug --add-gnu-debuglink=head.debug head.full head --- all_subdir_cddl --- c++: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation) *** [zfsd_unittest.full] Error code 1 make[7]: stopped making "all" in /usr/src/cddl/usr.sbin/zfsd/tests make[7]: 1 error [snip] From nobody Mon Dec 8 10:33:46 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPyyK3TPZz6KK0Y for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 10:34:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tschweikle@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72c.google.com (mail-qk1-x72c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPyyJ6VT6z4NHQ for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 10:34:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tschweikle@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-qk1-x72c.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-8b2627269d5so352761285a.2 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 02:34:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765190038; x=1765794838; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=QDrUl+rek5QMogfGEgwmVronVMrSeX0taRF1k6TA2iQ=; b=i2bkKZ2gT5ReMxGQLKhjg+fUR1RxlrT/TwdlBBlxhnaQz0ZXKhKXV9wV5HnA23hHRe HBsCpHQpJGQ3RRHUBs3lkRXgr/eimpUTzuysItucSu/iIMv9zpySxL7UFtuDbBMvMqpM Byii/2OLhPAdei2VMJ8sGmRZ0JJ2PMwX8ygqq6MTkboIdg8v/HPfMwwXUiEUQy7yNprm fzcl85TQ4H3fe/9KCYFGqJazV9WcPT5EPhYyOPbhargqoV8iVO0hIR/VWAJwG5vWwMc2 XYUq3gGd1JoE1boEu4aBLaqMJAWFcnseEA7za0NTI6lJlLcIxHcppqeSQFGhfxav19US XZhw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765190038; x=1765794838; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=QDrUl+rek5QMogfGEgwmVronVMrSeX0taRF1k6TA2iQ=; b=YObk9gmwOyMWEzgdTfu0JRDTvAL31qws0Ta9A99qYWCt6of/lS6XyK2p49Olj3vscq jRcDAiimHjjbzUU9kpeKnffdc06jmtonNyU5QhD/tr1xWINFyEAXjp3K1cFnouNkGI/2 PRqTCk47JMj5p3VVz96pwPNeYrAZujdcEaFjP5brVXaKvEWEOuLr6KSfipzxxiCosD1h CGO6NmG98k9Oxn73DkAfuml2DqG3Fqd+w8bH0wsN3ippkPm6jIAvgYhfFqlY1zLZp0Pu Z53gz3UvVlHGNmHP0T2YulSMRk8E3lKo7HgZ44m9PusD42ZkIcbPP/44WuyAeJsWwKe8 VN3A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyIYTAq8DmgTer0fytmsoUUSAyEG4/2eax1Xw3zUDgdPSjYqyxi oaEorINQF2hor0ol6AvcynUB26zgw5ZRPxj+mvkRrs3qv+qtR7HztvzhSs0IeBTevvDxuZydADd fp/dpcv3I34zrmjWUh6XA04oFbQS785gGgx7QVdg= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncv2U3xJvsGBU96qzGIyWeo/r8Ry9pZKBBRJRbxeYubrMSk/rd6OUF/oBpshs7o bpJJZJ064M/vPmKHhhjys7e0MZg2i1siJ/YjQZwG4s7sbe1NYRIWowpV1rHmRsq2uUJGS9JouTb JM3J557K40XtnaL6xum5JHX5YQWMPcT7/JltmCaOCpUUIlsDzjFjM2ZQG9K9FFV1yI2Rs1egbdB 5wNNhihPyIwCfFOQEv3PXiKClUXZwzcoowAu6yfrS7nhLXzDjZNSYZK60A0S/NudGxGxrEFSzEi QFJGyU6s2/SABs/AABhHDJi1y7Ww X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG/oYABbrMxBgZSjNK/FDJZRvhcEclopipqlu3lktPccLOeZFYE9LYEz5AMhkrbPFHd1dR+pg9acxoofGF/rZg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:c9:b0:4ed:142:ed5d with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-4f03fecb904mr104056211cf.50.1765190038394; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 02:33:58 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7a177da4388cde549e152e0ac8d13ab1@bsdforge.com> In-Reply-To: <7a177da4388cde549e152e0ac8d13ab1@bsdforge.com> From: Thomas Schweikle Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 11:33:46 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AQt7F2qiKXrSjuO_plWTReFdL-CYkRExS0MbTqv3WSVNVfvjHAXsu5GqmtKh3m8 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What happened to 16? To: Chris Cc: freebsd-current Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003319db06456e557e" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dPyyJ6VT6z4NHQ --0000000000003319db06456e557e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You looked for 16-stable? Does not exist. It is CURRENT without 16. You'll find it at: https://download.freebsd.org/snapshots/ISO-IMAGES/16.0/ looking for ISO-Images. On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 8:37=E2=80=AFAM Chris wrote= : > I just got a new laptop and tried to boot 13.5,14 and 15 > but it hangs at the video -- something about loosing contact > with sc. So I went to get a copy of 16. But download.freebsd.org > doesn't know where it is. All the links to it from FreeBSD.org > return 404. > > So where is it? > > Thanks! :-) > > -- > There is no such place as the internet --=20 Thomas --0000000000003319db06456e557e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You looked for 16-stable? Does not exist. It is CURRENT wi= thout 16. You'll find it at:


looking for ISO-Imag= es.

On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 8:37=E2=80=AFAM Chris= <bsd-lists@bsdforge.com&g= t; wrote:
I just= got a new laptop and tried to boot 13.5,14 and 15
but it hangs at the video -- something about loosing contact
with sc. So I went to get a copy of 16. But download.freebsd.org
doesn't know where it is. All the links to it from FreeBSD.org
return 404.

So where is it?

Thanks! :-)

--
There is no such place as the internet


-- =
Thomas
--0000000000003319db06456e557e-- From nobody Mon Dec 8 10:42:36 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPz8P1wTMz6KK9q for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 10:42:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (udns.ultimatedns.net [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R12" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPz8N5yF8z4QT0 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 10:42:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 5B8AgaaV093861; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 02:42:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=bsdforge.com; s=bsdforge; t=1765190563; x=1765191163; r=y; bh=q3pI7tLJEAd0t7imKCAHrx7SrtfVygVw0Be2J7FUX58=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=gV5rS0fXZZcNnyYKSBhsjBvwYi4WtW6upa/MjZPfEK5BIKJoA7glwCOSeuWxXXUXF nOOQekvB6CrGHcEsM1h4eidlW1KW17ENACfE0JrYZ6PYH/nM1vlFoBp7VvEvw2qYBQ JM4YhkHT7WsLdX10Bd4LahBX/JFgSS36HoDj6uWnJCpUBCmR4a/REF4zWaTRrEvtav AbFY7Qm7/OXe458OrRJOHXfvQwI2OQkECPB5/MUshV+mFGkPtSwmyCAaAT0B7E6OMn zwBr51PBVCu9u08Fy65jnfCbXwW8SbCofEQXVCF5GEG0jhHQs9EY0DyUtccRi0MxgG l2yKx+McBKP3g== List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2025 02:42:36 -0800 From: Chris To: Thomas Schweikle Cc: freebsd-current Subject: Re: What happened to 16? In-Reply-To: References: <7a177da4388cde549e152e0ac8d13ab1@bsdforge.com> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <213a7c6a4a63025645dd148d12fed016@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_f04a9af0398292d0db06582ed504d6a0" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dPz8N5yF8z4QT0 --=_f04a9af0398292d0db06582ed504d6a0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 2025-12-08 02:33, Thomas Schweikle wrote: > You looked for 16-stable? No. It's a releng. :-) > Does not exist. It is CURRENT without 16. You'll > find it at: > > https://download.freebsd.org/snapshots/ISO-IMAGES/16.0/ Nope. As I indicated below. All those references return 404. 16 no longer exists on the FreeBSD servers. :O Thank you for taking the time to respond. :-) > > looking for ISO-Images. > > On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 8:37 AM Chris wrote: > >> I just got a new laptop and tried to boot 13.5,14 and 15 >> but it hangs at the video -- something about loosing contact >> with sc. So I went to get a copy of 16. But download.freebsd.org >> doesn't know where it is. All the links to it from FreeBSD.org >> return 404. >> >> So where is it? >> >> Thanks! :-) >> --Chris -- There is no such place as the internet --=_f04a9af0398292d0db06582ed504d6a0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xE512722F.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xE512722F.asc; size=3074 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGf/G0IBCADARuJc6IcwOe3jv7dQsP1X/EIHvCFExPbTmlMNFMXbMMccQUnV o8ayEn+wmTvPhw7uL3PDk7DQs16W1sN2b8UMFc804cVWNGtoG3rA+Np+TFEYlXJx eh5Q42VHptkuwzHKl+q2utkpRlS7uHyfjsInQAoHxLyi/wrsaZTHHhDbLLhJ5Ez0 arohQ2Q1w0M5e9rW8Fy5rpC7RpC6uO1SZMxcbdqURI/BBqxbiD1iW62cDWFkfFX+ dtaEXghFV7BIBMDSrgIunGoEfdMZgXys7O6bPWn8z0cuOZIPj4HrjoCYARyQ+sdc rjz/k06SLM/UvEZDorJhT4DbYrwMNvaPWJiPABEBAAG0HkNocmlzIDxic2QtbGlz dHNAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBNQQQAQgAHwUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgEC GQECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci8bSwf/fK3QcTYXRMrv82HIp4SiGCSD7/bRmyWr ipv2vzknGFHxPBN4AEWIqF/U4j5oDXaodyU6xsy59Z47/lgbyzyZiVR6nmJVgZVf el/EgwnLt7ZuYGLLEhIN2pd9itJkB8PMPZrUHMWgIw8BxX5YFYGuyiNe9pGn0Coj 98t/v3fouhqksH+BpB4TBHJBBDSxSiMm66VTJX4Xcnpf0ZnQVP4GBuoyodnFBfdI wqftPLESsCC08lUhD2j7v2NRWwMi/q3ed8D6VCKPImBByYnBZL5gu56K5bwqaQfN itu06APuIYnG71qxgn1EPO63lovWP5NZGgOKvzs3K+JfPF79BiOUFbQjQ2hyaXMg PG1haWxvcEBocmNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zLm5ldD6JATEEEAEIABwFAmf/G0IGCwkH CAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvBH8H9RGwzZuU6+zvH1WjQa97 yWpEt9rC+BIBJThev2Cpls2LqBqIeIQVZPnyLAZWgFaiezL6+xbvcNt6OnfidIYa x8iRwCMC6/Bs8H2Wef9qfGxXi+jHPLYQk3juiZVmBhIK6FJZkzaW4wSiawofwzbp zqNxO8dZ0j4foaJZrNi8iqsvKjiiHoSFaJtumIThAeydI18CNLeFaS53sk5nad6I wCYeFKmJ/22dMP7DOFEgyG1iNYgY+AGREMkEsBiLpqYjJ5asK+1UdUy/TRly1hOt HHxCiX0Fh9ZYM2vLIj7sq4LKaMPGeYC3qTqBYugVeyz7LkiI2ft/BKveA5JxuYKk ZrQiQ2hyaXMgPG5hbm9nQGhyY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMubmV0PokBMgQQAQgAHAUC Z/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci+4Bwf8D0Ogk2/X ud/CsAgHozwzKPqfesL5SRWM14hLnU9/EHoplnZgNexbVY1wXIi2FYPo5cve9QxW Nmt3S3UTF9j2fGqv0wmeHv3EqogFUHnftLyWpbeTPOFDMIQp/BOD6ygfeXxXWxRT L6zvUkSrDtHvkQHPWGRxwP+ihWjpw9AQR/R4/qAuTAZZM0O7UnJEo4mWXatl+utF wegG2giwFTTxfF+1rMpFtUDjYCpRQ6ZmE+gC1mHUMoH7GJMQv12DbqwKrxtwGfd0 AJNO3ZDnxl24BmIfl1YqQGZQ5iIH7At4YItESbU45hoNNsG9oDrsil78EUCAtXHd UPScj+eXaeAkgrQfQ2hyaXMgPHBvcnRtYXN0ZXJAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBMgQQ AQgAHAUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci9o7Af+ Lwu5hJlI5HZNGwAll7QTIFZVW+y4OEg+amhxTDGbAAqlnSIkHC1KgkmIOOrThme3 kTFCqfIIsuP73yKxHq6kRG0zH5/7asAPNAUOfzD7B2o/gMyuTRKyG5r9f3UmACr4 6qvtFhIwROXr6+NNT2IKg3l0/8F58A0N/TR8D2PTHeo4x6jYcZQDCrCy7BAdk3cu V16k4z/1UzRa07b5McezbWL20cIaZ+dqNcCjKZpzPlTyTCGgrNNtaDpNVhoWUKMB YNcKql+tfC1IpX8l+IU6OBKcDKMkQojvO1QrZqY8MDJGo8jq/CtotQ8+IpAai3Bx dQEsxrxlcKTR4rUqvd8VGbkBDQRn/xtCAQgAv5Nv/aQN72xsLik+K73PJwpUmyhu vnI6stM6dSecylXVHjZ7C4n/m0eQEeQCl+9lByHR9N8H+WS3DtAd4pmciiIxRQLA JZiuaLYcy9ziy1h7130VoR7hhJHzo9FIhWkTGlCDX3egUZrYhMiwFUO8lNltLB8o TBvIrMSsnUzawtQjq/otv0Jf+oBPbG+gIYnAm7w6r86n/l+eVxf5eEoS7wV0DJfp b2jE5zWErWk8I/tq4e8T+1VQeVQR6wz+NrUCSxkPkpNAm19AFUHOk//yvMGWVlDW F6gr3ErN2a0w/kZ0lz3Msxsb87QT+MnJf/T3cuEqdTIoSk74BfNEAdMohQARAQAB iQEfBBgBCAAJBQJn/xtCAhsMAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvyvIH/26zytSVNDaxtprg7XtX LerIWf9RyVx8omCw/lXKRCcgkfwD7QR+nSZ0thWOGMpcnivjuReeVRkz/webUF47 BXJ/Tge07nrxdtyTIHBbp35fPIriaKaII6YWc2Ufdxwv+cD8PADS6gQWAlgrWLmn VmYtyHs4kwtiPZyUyuBdWnZal2GyYY0WVwYjvbk95eInwOaIdoTjesJ7ZhUFu155 r4hh9GlvM0uv8WJ5Mw9wvHa5fIM205I5g0IWC7yvTwwwKHlV4JQQOqMwfv569OEl 1GKqA12nSVziB1+UV+I0NqOABWi/MOi+IySPzYP+XgdPfRNx4vmoHYZwWOQ3t4Jd TEM= =oj6y -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --=_f04a9af0398292d0db06582ed504d6a0-- From nobody Mon Dec 8 10:49:44 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPzJW2Ycyz6KKkq for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 10:49:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPzJW1fSjz3CmM; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 10:49:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765190987; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=G0Oro0eI/S5a6ohHmXZm24E1oasf0CZ6CdmDRpsd7ss=; b=chf4U1pyBuB/CJ1Is2scsXFzVUDuf8ZcRr9eIpyTtEHk6nzC75H8aZEkzPH1tlsaPejWBX AzNenMp3DFmzIwM6O/cpVgAzPZrfamMkqnnU7/rYQEvM156VVjVGwxtFzQgwPc1hlUywKH MKM2+FxgODleGpW+0iUby9MEPUoVf+MtnSHGQaw03m8JleDw0cMpcn/KfQlhk2osY1o3xJ MOf4Xwz+TXAG+ZuehQJbaWN9Q0D3Z632l5jvY7mJ226zOSTA9Ly6C8TXhn1JLeiFedg8RH bjVBaI/2sBMmT+sHBbtOl8BE5BvLly4p9goCt5IGz7ByYt3GkfWkFWkI2ISEqQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765190987; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=G0Oro0eI/S5a6ohHmXZm24E1oasf0CZ6CdmDRpsd7ss=; b=Mh6pinAAh8/HWFvu9/sD3yFh3IyCZELIDtWN2CaS9yojj/4RY+VkTfPqqU6LJy6ejORo98 BkhfY55wjnVkh8hAC5ZuA97unAvhQubFwZ0KHcOYfj8xtgGRnla0lNur4dv5tgwYarB3Xr K6DB8LjlMoh+FOQCVB9OZlcNp2lgDcfSQPTiYa03txpcnOIlNE6XxxAQguDxm3W5dsgGR1 nF+2rCU2I3TKjuJzV1SEAx6DXG0Bpri9vAK/4FDPbn4fRQe3gGpSBV8xdS/Vzu//Aqdeih j6FhBRmXc8SnCIAfzQm4imPMFH9zIecww5VMK7+et680JXki9G8HpcaayvbNsA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1765190987; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ICG50qtyGXlAc56niiOUfqc3BeFjEgleejG0SNDxzF4enUwQO5WRudlTt3q7Qw0eVSPbzb a0Lnbe86bD0FvpHvsg5SsOjNltAplS0PeGUulRbhuglF1QwYIKIyuxRLzhBoi6/Wu3edgS 8rFZPPOFaYUu+zmCoVL/TXiBdSMDKA5HjwnekNwQo3pJ2soWK3PuCvAtPNzDGfmcYZ72Np wAOl9heWHX/tSk4C7T3fkesOwuJSezkiV0kO0VXBC91kO6Y4V8hJp6jR+Mn2U7Efq+CTSK DNeLdjDALUpnzrREoc1cv6v7T+mx3l9Eqgi484rCh/7ymvu39GnOP5c1ETFD3w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from mousie.catspoiler.org (unknown [76.212.85.177]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: truckman) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4dPzJV4gfDz12gQ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 10:49:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 02:49:44 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Subject: Re: CURRENT buildworld broken To: FreeBSD CURRENT , Martin Matuska In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Disposition: INLINE On 8 Dec, Don Lewis wrote: > I'm attempting a source upgrade from a few week old version of -CURRENT. > > (wd now: /usr/src) > %uname -a > FreeBSD zipper.catspoiler.org 16.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT #12 main-n281982-c0a38339fec3: Tue Nov 18 02:17:06 PST 2025 dl@zipper.catspoiler.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/GENERIC amd64 > zipper:src 170%git pull --rebase > Already up to date. > zipper:src 171%git log | head -1 > commit f0ea859229843affe07ac94db915489756f87096 > > #make -j16 buildworld > [snip] > --- all_subdir_cddl --- > ld: error: undefined reference: spl_pagesize >>>> referenced by /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/usr/lib/libzutil.so (disallowed by --no-allow-shlib-undefined) > > ld: error: undefined reference: libspl_assertf >>>> referenced by /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/usr/lib/libzutil.so (disallowed by --no-allow-shlib-undefined) > > ld: error: undefined reference: taskq_create >>>> referenced by /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/usr/lib/libzutil.so (disallowed by --no-allow-shlib-undefined) > > ld: error: undefined reference: taskq_dispatch >>>> referenced by /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/usr/lib/libzutil.so (disallowed by --no-allow-shlib-undefined) > > ld: error: undefined reference: taskq_wait >>>> referenced by /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/usr/lib/libzutil.so (disallowed by --no-allow-shlib-undefined) > > ld: error: undefined reference: taskq_destroy >>>> referenced by /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/usr/lib/libzutil.so (disallowed by --no-allow-shlib-undefined) > --- all_subdir_lib --- > --- all_subdir_lib/msun --- > > --- next_test.full --- > cc -target x86_64-unknown-freebsd16.0 --sysroot=/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp -B/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/usr/bin -O2 -pipe -fno-common -DHAVE_FENV_H -I/usr/src/contrib/netbsd-tests/lib/libc/gen -D__HAVE_LONG_DOUBLE -fno-builtin -DLDBL_PREC=64 -fPIE -g -gz=zlib -std=gnu17 -Wno-format-zero-length -fstack-protector-strong -Wno-error=ignored-pragmas -Wsystem-headers -Werror -Wall -Wno-format-y2k -W -Wno-unused-parameter -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Wreturn-type -Wcast-qual -Wwrite-strings -Wswitch -Wshadow -Wunused-parameter -Wcast-align -Wchar-subscripts -Wnested-externs -Wold-style-definition -Wno-pointer-sign -Wdate-time -Wno-unknown-pragmas -Wmissing-variable-declarations -Wthread-safety -Wno-empty-body -Wno-string-plus-int -Wno-unused-const-variable -Wno-error=unused-but-set-parameter -Wno-error=cast-function-type-mismatch -Qunused-arguments -Wl,-zrelro -pie -o next_test.full next_test.pieo -lprivateatf-c -lm > --- all_subdir_tests --- > --- ftruncate_test.debug --- > objcopy --only-keep-debug ftruncate_test.full ftruncate_test.debug > --- ftruncate_test --- > objcopy --strip-debug --add-gnu-debuglink=ftruncate_test.debug ftruncate_test.full ftruncate_test > --- newfileops_on_fork_test --- > (cd /usr/src/tests/sys/file && DEPENDFILE=.depend.newfileops_on_fork_test NO_SUBDIR=1 make -f /usr/src/tests/sys/file/Makefile _RECURSING_PROGS=t PROG=newfileops_on_fork_test ) > --- all_subdir_usr.bin --- > --- head.debug --- > objcopy --only-keep-debug head.full head.debug > --- head --- > objcopy --strip-debug --add-gnu-debuglink=head.debug head.full head > --- all_subdir_cddl --- > c++: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation) > *** [zfsd_unittest.full] Error code 1 > > make[7]: stopped making "all" in /usr/src/cddl/usr.sbin/zfsd/tests > make[7]: 1 error > [snip] Seems to be one of these commits: commit 8b78d412aec7f9171ecc2e1cd8aea07b19b4f600 Author: Martin Matuska Date: Sun Dec 7 23:09:12 2025 +0100 zfs: world changes after 89f729dcc merge Remove, unbind and obsolete libuutil and libtpool Update zfs_configh and zfs_gitrev.h commit 66e85755595a451db490d2fe24267d85db4b09c2 Merge: c51876a10731 89f729dcca87 Author: Martin Matuska Date: Sun Dec 7 22:38:13 2025 +0100 zfs: merge openzfs/zfs@89f729dcc Notable upstream pull request merges: #17932 1f3444f2b zpool: fix special vdev -v -o conflict #17934 -multiple Remove libuutil #17941 88d012a1d Fix snapshot automount expiry cancellation deadlock #17942 36e4f1888 Fix taskq NULL pointer dereference on timer race #17946 39303feba chksum: run 256K benchmark on demand, preserve chksum_stat_data #17948 -multiple Remove libtpool #17957 e37937f42 ztest: fix broken random call #17960 928eccc5b DDT: Reduce global DDT lock scope during writes #17961 48f33c1ef DDT: Make children writes inherit allocator #17975 7f7d4934c FreeBSD: Fix uninitialized variable error #17980 a5b665df3 DDT: Switch to using wmsums for lookup stats #18004 ffaea0831 FreeBSD: Remove HAVE_INLINE_FLSL use Obtained from: OpenZFS OpenZFS commit: 89f729dcca87425aadfa03d1764e96f285eb658d buildworld succeeds if I roll back to c51876a107310984ba3a31b088caebcfd86a9844. From nobody Mon Dec 8 10:53:59 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPzPf21RFz6KL03 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 10:54:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tschweikle@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x830.google.com (mail-qt1-x830.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::830]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPzPd6khHz3F4T for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 10:54:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tschweikle@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-qt1-x830.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-4ed82e82f0fso38684861cf.1 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 02:54:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765191252; x=1765796052; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Y93cdQo2oKcdr0+pfLqRvrZXXHuDGemVVLGqUao0WR0=; b=TY5ip62PUX9apIbKi5tVSyyU/5Tys6P5ryf702Pb3CSr1SVBLvopOcvl3d/Fzq1st4 korhC7uxdxyK53rv9iUOSOVBEjqyeciBguqD6/S7HnCkHf8GiTM1mDgrAVJTpngwmjdu 4/K2k9t1RvWi+dNfPVVJZcfn4EM+B1wMfkCMPDQLqqFyyQi/vs2Ss2+dZjK9tLvoQ9Z2 GVzT9pSrfSmfoLwmivgZ6pVk96r93RCMVDct7JUqKa6qxPuBcloJIH8vD7KRcznDAdXF si0e3LCp8MIMLcGlYEDLYTiwQtqUXSTYUBueGiUIbRQRfWaBnuQIRNC8fZsWGErVlvPl rQkw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765191252; x=1765796052; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=Y93cdQo2oKcdr0+pfLqRvrZXXHuDGemVVLGqUao0WR0=; b=OebKm9l4RUEGH6+BBIy4k2wpUtTUtdHn5TLuG0A6lznG28LGja0qdxsFlhqjMtvSnD 1jp7IMZTvy7B67b3oDO+b5mVmJv4MGxvX9T3Q8hQW/+ZxgtfjVNHNBAxv70ANMEmK9rv Q5dzoH/txS60sjGIm3tAtTDBqowGrsWeJwJlt/P9b5g8iQTuE/17HrTXasUpAmSH5ed/ R81ADzfYORe0V+8nI+kFi6fBV8EgqRP5dT/OBy5joTsf/jekGejP5EQrPR5nVJJCUrEI uxrROYb3WlFK6ZB74i999VmCi71rdhf2zSw2q1YtKNZjm4rEbejcUzDaQZXi4wy9ICE/ 6w/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx9MmLZAWk43kgzY9vdzJYkExDN3oI2CM/wNFO3PtFeptHwOUjE 3YOdFigsj7IplZW2nWEcl5MCO7a4b08ouIKwH/l2Z+i+EjS1flqepLO1L+foqWTRPaP2iC1nDv+ cYmK1vM+0nsNDGkz26jAp/G11eVIzBEBD+UgaQ7E= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncuRZnTxl7I5zV/MPhcYz9vFBGwpHM37F4DrFbv8aA8M+7/Ue5uUG11w7hUWRMH 6GgLULBjGrTWjDi2IcI860dZDTNjoAqR/1GDSnruOliZx9euwmXuhl73yF/d8ucO4jEzp4Wlkiq JyK7tdUNA88dWvmAvZa836H7sOxQ1Fnxzp3J6wjy5umk2/SNf0Y+2TohbZFQDN8E9GHsY0LgQxs 0gVguwn2MplxGFXyJK4eu2Gi1jEeJP5LGwyc4pDCt3YQAXI1F77RdKO0R87kDHtRNyaiMJsWEwf Bc3b0WIRTgRsPC6oWvBz1O04+GF3 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFfCeUd/KcfrgahX684Qo4JWERr4pN/hh+niCIQT3tAFoLuZRPubTsnXznuAPCNJ/XLGHH4tQrWmJYW7oxuxuw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:350:b0:4ee:213b:3393 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-4f03fd8ee4bmr113992061cf.4.1765191252012; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 02:54:12 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7a177da4388cde549e152e0ac8d13ab1@bsdforge.com> <213a7c6a4a63025645dd148d12fed016@bsdforge.com> In-Reply-To: <213a7c6a4a63025645dd148d12fed016@bsdforge.com> From: Thomas Schweikle Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 11:53:59 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AQt7F2pR6I0Gv4L3MRFmqP_wmlg5oUag-gmY1XyAAJ1d97YrS8jSlZcGOA4Hy-E Message-ID: Subject: Re: What happened to 16? To: Chris Cc: freebsd-current Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000089740706456e9d21" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dPzPd6khHz3F4T --00000000000089740706456e9d21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hmmm. If I click on this link send by me, I'll get a list of what is available. Clicking on one entry starts downloading. $ dig download.freebsd.org ; <<>> DiG 9.20.11-1ubuntu2.1-Ubuntu <<>> download.freebsd.org ;; global options: +cmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 29834 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 5, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1 ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 65494 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;download.freebsd.org. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: download.freebsd.org. 2391 IN CNAME download.geo.freebsd.org. download.geo.freebsd.org. 150 IN A 151.101.65.242 download.geo.freebsd.org. 150 IN A 151.101.1.242 download.geo.freebsd.org. 150 IN A 151.101.193.242 download.geo.freebsd.org. 150 IN A 151.101.129.242 ;; Query time: 157 msec ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.53#53(127.0.0.53) (UDP) ;; WHEN: Mon Dec 08 11:52:52 CET 2025 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 140 What do you receive if digging about the address of download.freebsd.org? On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 11:42=E2=80=AFAM Chris wrot= e: > On 2025-12-08 02:33, Thomas Schweikle wrote: > > You looked for 16-stable? > No. It's a releng. :-) > > > Does not exist. It is CURRENT without 16. You'll > > find it at: > > > > https://download.freebsd.org/snapshots/ISO-IMAGES/16.0/ > Nope. As I indicated below. All those references return 404. > 16 no longer exists on the FreeBSD servers. :O > > > Thank you for taking the time to respond. :-) > > > > > looking for ISO-Images. > > > > On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 8:37=E2=80=AFAM Chris w= rote: > > > >> I just got a new laptop and tried to boot 13.5,14 and 15 > >> but it hangs at the video -- something about loosing contact > >> with sc. So I went to get a copy of 16. But download.freebsd.org > >> doesn't know where it is. All the links to it from FreeBSD.org > >> return 404. > >> > >> So where is it? > >> > >> Thanks! :-) > >> > > --Chris > > -- > There is no such place as the internet --=20 Thomas --00000000000089740706456e9d21 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hmmm. If I click on this link send by me, I'll get a l= ist of what is available. Clicking on one entry starts downloading.
$ dig download.freebsd.= org

; <<>> DiG 9.20.11-1ubuntu2.1-Ubuntu <<>= ;> download.freebsd.org
;= ; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opc= ode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 29834
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANS= WER: 5, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS:= version: 0, flags:; udp: 65494
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;download.freebsd.org. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0IN =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A

;; ANSWER SECTION:
download.freebsd.org. =C2=A0 2391 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0IN =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0CNAME =C2=A0 download.geo.freebsd.org.
download.geo.freebsd.org. 150 =C2=A0 IN =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0A =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 151.101.65.242
download.geo.freebsd.org. 150 =C2=A0 IN =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0A =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 151.101.1.242
download.geo.freebsd.org. 150 =C2=A0 IN =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0A =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 151.101.193.242
download.geo.freebsd.org. 150 =C2=A0 IN =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0A =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 151.101.129.242

;; Query time: 157 msec;; SERVER: 127.0.0.53#53(127.0.0.53) (UDP)
;; WHEN: Mon Dec 08 11:52:52= CET 2025
;; MSG SIZE =C2=A0rcvd: 140

What = do you receive if digging about the address of download.freebsd.org?


On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 11:42=E2=80=AFAM Chris <bsd-lists@bsdforge.com> wrote:
On 2025-12-08 02:33, Thomas Sch= weikle wrote:
> You looked for 16-stable?
No. It's a releng. :-)

> Does not exist. It is CURRENT without 16. You'll
> find it at:
>
> https://download.freebsd.org/snapshots/I= SO-IMAGES/16.0/
Nope. As I indicated below. All those references return 404.
16 no longer exists on the FreeBSD servers. :O


Thank you for taking the time to respond. :-)

>
> looking for ISO-Images.
>
> On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 8:37=E2=80=AFAM Chris <bsd-lists@bsdforge.com> wrote= :
>
>> I just got a new laptop and tried to boot 13.5,14 and 15
>> but it hangs at the video -- something about loosing contact
>> with sc. So I went to get a copy of 16. But download.freebsd.org=
>> doesn't know where it is. All the links to it from FreeBSD.org=
>> return 404.
>>
>> So where is it?
>>
>> Thanks! :-)
>>

--Chris

--
There is no such place as the internet


-- =
Thomas
--00000000000089740706456e9d21-- From nobody Mon Dec 8 11:38:57 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQ0PT0PSZz6JfTB; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 11:39:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQ0PS2lQpz3K9R; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 11:39:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by kib.kiev.ua (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTP id 5B8BcwBm010112; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 13:39:01 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua 5B8BcwBm010112 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) id 5B8Bcv95010107; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 13:38:57 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kib@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kib@freebsd.org using -f Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 13:38:57 +0200 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Rozhuk Ivan , Mateusz Guzik , Warner Losh , Mark Millard , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , brooks@freebsd.org Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 Message-ID: References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <20251208035105.2313075d@rimwks.local> <202512080745.5B87jeIN025646@critter.freebsd.dk> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <202512080745.5B87jeIN025646@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=4.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.2 (2025-08-27) on tom.home X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQ0PS2lQpz3K9R On Mon, Dec 08, 2025 at 07:45:40AM +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > -------- > Konstantin Belousov writes: > > > JFYI, shared llvm libs are required for lot of things. The incomplete > > list of examples that I am aware of are dri drivers and ispc Intel compiler. > > But installing the shared libs for those other users, does not mean we have > to link the compiler itself against the shared lib ? Sure, we do not have to. But there are other benefits from linking the libraries dynamically. E.g. the same (?) user shed crocodile tears over memory usage by 64bit system, and linking libllvm dynamically exactly reduces the memory profile by sharing significant part of text for cc, lld, and minor binutils. From nobody Mon Dec 8 11:47:41 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQ0bN6cvyz6JgGM; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 11:47:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQ0bN4K4gz3Mvf; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 11:47:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BC1AD7892; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 11:47:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.18.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 5B8BlfDs027094; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 11:47:41 GMT (envelope-from phk) Message-Id: <202512081147.5B8BlfDs027094@critter.freebsd.dk> To: Konstantin Belousov cc: Rozhuk Ivan , Mateusz Guzik , Warner Losh , Mark Millard , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , brooks@freebsd.org Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 In-reply-to: From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <20251208035105.2313075d@rimwks.local> <202512080745.5B87jeIN025646@critter.freebsd.dk> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <27092.1765194461.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2025 11:47:41 +0000 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1835, ipnet:130.225.0.0/16, country:EU]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQ0bN4K4gz3Mvf -------- Konstantin Belousov writes: > On Mon, Dec 08, 2025 at 07:45:40AM +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > -------- > > Konstantin Belousov writes: > > = > > > JFYI, shared llvm libs are required for lot of things. The incomple= te > > > list of examples that I am aware of are dri drivers and ispc Intel c= ompiler. > > = > > But installing the shared libs for those other users, does not mean we= have > > to link the compiler itself against the shared lib ? > > Sure, we do not have to. > > But there are other benefits from linking the libraries dynamically. > E.g. the same (?) user shed crocodile tears over memory usage by 64bit > system, and linking libllvm dynamically exactly reduces the memory profi= le > by sharing significant part of text for cc, lld, and minor binutils. We can offer it as an builtime option, but unless some RAM factory or othe= r burns down, it should not be our default. -- = Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe = Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence= . From nobody Mon Dec 8 12:15:52 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQ1D91ZqPz6JhTp for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 12:16:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) Received: from plan-b.pwste.edu.pl (plan-b.pwste.edu.pl [IPv6:2001:678:618::40]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (prime256v1) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "plan-b.pwste.edu.pl", Issuer "GEANT TLS ECC 1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQ1D71YRHz3QsR for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 12:16:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=plan-b.pwste.edu.pl header.s=plan-b-mailer header.b=Cg1aKgAY; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=plan-b.pwste.edu.pl; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl designates 2001:678:618::40 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl Received: from [192.168.7.70] (dom.potoki.eu [62.133.140.50]) (authenticated bits=0) by plan-b.pwste.edu.pl (8.18.1/8.17.2) with ESMTPSA id 5B8CFqxL000067 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 13:15:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=plan-b.pwste.edu.pl; s=plan-b-mailer; t=1765196153; bh=vMTM3wOyf+9jfuRulGEVwyjcaZEseAYGbgCVTQVo2wg=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=Cg1aKgAYMGyp6t0RZ3nnzhSBZuW/4GuxtEtlXMUehjcWMrLRgjMeT1nUAg7xOiEac H3xps57y4XvPCqvE/zp2QaIl0UB02PYwP+AAOkMVcswq84Q0vM6qUxMZoG9FMV0QI2 bjIKk3IEdLpaqzUoMHMVdOwCED8sUlD8WgtOHmm0B/tA9kvcYUNVhCCdBST2hIQvMK MCgqkdHY7sdFZL15FoXHgDef+OFX1W1oAbXZmRwRaiArysmYGFuYSsoVlHww6Y56s4 i4i1eGZn74nLbyzUPoiaXOBM3Xkbc4rVoPrv6BqDSfLuD58lc6wWX1utDBmkWB7pKF wCMI0KjVKKO3w== X-Authentication-Warning: plan-b.pwste.edu.pl: Host dom.potoki.eu [62.133.140.50] claimed to be [192.168.7.70] Message-ID: <260c76a9-42ea-4ddb-be43-0e572ae38799@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 13:15:52 +0100 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <20251208035105.2313075d@rimwks.local> <202512080745.5B87jeIN025646@critter.freebsd.dk> <202512081147.5B8BlfDs027094@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Language: en-US From: Marek Zarychta Autocrypt: addr=zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl; keydata= xsBNBFfi3cMBCADLecMTFXad4uDXqv3eRuB4qJJ8G9tzzFezeRnnwxOsPdytW5ES2z1ibSrR IsiImx6+PTqrAmXpTInxAi7yiZGdSiONRI4CCxKY9d1YFiNYT/2WyNXCekm9x29YeIU7x0JB Llbz0f/9HC+styBIu2H+PY/X98Clzm110CS+n/b9l1AtiGxTiVFj7/uavYAKxH6LNWnbkuc5 v8EVNc7NkEcl5h7Z9X5NEtzDxTOiBIFQ/kOT7LAtkYUPo1lqLeOM2DtWSXTXQgXl0zJI4iP1 OAu4qQYm2nXwq4b2AH9peknelvnt1mpfgDCGSKnhc26q6ibTfMwydp+tvUtQIQYpA6b9ABEB AAHNN01hcmVrIFphcnljaHRhIChQbGFuLWIpIDx6YXJ5Y2h0YW1AcGxhbi1iLnB3c3RlLmVk dS5wbD7CwHcEEwEIACEFAlfi4LkCGwMFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQHZW8 vIFppoJXdgf8D9X3VRFSNaR9lthSx/+uqas17J3FJKBo1xMQsC2a+44vzNvYJSuPGLLJ+LW2 HPVazjP/BWZJbxOYpliY4zxNRU0YCp0BLIVLibc//yax+mE42FND/+NiIZhqJscl6MLPrSwo sIwXec4XYkldkyqW/xBbBYXoIkBqdKB9j5j42Npy1IV/RizOSdmvTWY27ir8e/yGMR1RLr4F 8P5K3OWTdlGy2H2F/3J8bIPBLG6FpaIyLQw4dHSx8V02PYqDxK1cNo2kAOnU8PnZL/AGuMOH iv3MN1VYL8ehcmpBBsrZGebQJxrjY2/5IaTSgp9xHYT70kshuU6Qb97vk1mOjNZxgc7ATQRX 4t3DAQgA10h6RCXuBLMHxq5B8X/ZIlj9sgLoeyfRdDZEc9rT2KUeUJVHDsbvOFf4/7F1ovWY hJbA6GK/LUZeHHTjnbZcH1uDYQeHly4UOLxeEvhGoz4JhS2C7JzN/uRnwbdOAUbJr8rUj/IY a7gk906rktsc/Ldrxrxh7O6WO0JCh2XO/p4pDfEwwB37g4xHprSab28ECYJ9JMbtA8Sy4M55 g3+GQ28FvSlGnx48OoGXU2BZdc1vZKSQmNOlikB+9/hDX8zdYWVfDaX1TLQ8Ib4+xTUmapza mV/bxIsaZRBw+jFjLQHhTbIMfPEU+4mxFDvTdbKPruKPqVf1ydgMnPZWngowdwARAQABwsBf BBgBCAAJBQJX4t3DAhsMAAoJEB2VvLyBaaaC6qkIAJs9sDPqrqW0bYoRfzY6XjDWQ59p9tJi v8aogxacQNCfAu+WkJ8PNVUtC1dlVcG5NnZ80gXzd1rc8ueIvXlvdanUt/jZd8jbb3gaDbK3 wh1yMCGBl/1fOJTyEGYv1CRojv97KK89KP5+r8x1P1iHcSrunlDNqGxTMydNCwBH23QcOM+m u4spKnJ/s0VRBkw3xoKBZfZza6fTQ4gTpAipjyk7ldOGBV+PvkKATdhK2yLwuWXhKbg/GRlD 1r5P0gxzSqfV4My+KJuc2EDcrqp1y0wOpE1m9iZqCcd0fup5f7HDsYlLWshr7NQl28f6+fQb sylq/j672BHXsdeqf/Ip9V4= In-Reply-To: <202512081147.5B8BlfDs027094@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.55 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.75)[-0.751]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[plan-b.pwste.edu.pl,quarantine]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[plan-b.pwste.edu.pl:s=plan-b-mailer]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:206006, ipnet:2001:678:618::/48, country:PL]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; BLOCKLISTDE_FAIL(0.00)[62.133.140.50:server fail,2001:678:618::40:server fail]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[plan-b.pwste.edu.pl:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQ1D71YRHz3QsR W dniu 8.12.2025 o 12:47, Poul-Henning Kamp pisze: > -------- > Konstantin Belousov writes: > >> On Mon, Dec 08, 2025 at 07:45:40AM +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >>> -------- >>> Konstantin Belousov writes: >>> >>>> JFYI, shared llvm libs are required for lot of things. The incomplete >>>> list of examples that I am aware of are dri drivers and ispc Intel compiler. >>> >>> But installing the shared libs for those other users, does not mean we have >>> to link the compiler itself against the shared lib ? >> >> Sure, we do not have to. >> >> But there are other benefits from linking the libraries dynamically. >> E.g. the same (?) user shed crocodile tears over memory usage by 64bit >> system, and linking libllvm dynamically exactly reduces the memory profile >> by sharing significant part of text for cc, lld, and minor binutils. > > We can offer it as an builtime option, but unless some RAM factory or other > burns down, it should not be our default. > +1 Irrespective of the chosen default, providing a src.conf(5) build-time variable for selecting dynamic or static linking would allow both approaches to be supported. -- Marek Zarychta From nobody Mon Dec 8 12:18:48 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQ1HR3cK3z6Jhxd for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 12:18:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x52d.google.com (mail-ed1-x52d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQ1HQ6PRRz3RRl for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 12:18:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ed1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-6492e78ce07so1301452a12.3 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 04:18:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765196332; x=1765801132; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=oYFmT5ZjY2UzyZHZyxc19nuqcc0IlSfFBMAXmJvFQvo=; b=DOUbcnkGKrur1NYs+wwfs5d3q9N+1lA5qJOmB0ZyfFsYqiUVgYZumLWPLsZhP/BWcQ hIkJ2Pl+uv5g5X6ayH9BC74X9yWodk9WSUVIcUY0dzFllEnlzVthuMDPJDOUP8S3bb2P seYVaNEK/Eo5L4/yHNLfl1vlFb4xVPtTA0o6P8YV9iX5H/M0uRoMafPH8rtHYQL7kdhB D6LrTXV1JB9GHf3HXG2DRQRsShmPcryDxViqU459S+JkRhIqk1SoXJ3n2mhN6wmgD3E0 HnP25RZstUb4OoW+7fTcjy1MWgrLlq1ZMswF85XdY/PmdLcRrCse8bSHQCT2Zx7IgKa1 OfXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765196332; x=1765801132; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=oYFmT5ZjY2UzyZHZyxc19nuqcc0IlSfFBMAXmJvFQvo=; b=RXq9VepRyfHzEz6C4LqFmbmnbkDtL/gtjz7TpaggRX7e4oIRsrs859yiWoP+vssiPy q5PGfzUiaPUTlxHQeRU8E70HtozDaTxZRgYJrGk7x9uAzd5FshOXQa2l9Es0op2rNBqB dHJHP9cI2iGEkk2x8dcyjvb1fp8fTXpWQKntXPvVWsvYcCvPmilawM4F10SVAkUN/G9m iE5psfdv5XpVIfSSCBiEsNsGF+UVgS+TAmCDhcEB3TZYePHGAaWHAHZQm+ApHd2T6DI9 vJhvcXnXs4bdSy3mrNLSaXQ2+eVwv4M9ltQocNY+rImBPLnpKjmH0kNDeGbfOSJOU/4m SOAg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWVzL09aqWd0Xg/bwsuWg7MC5xxVquqSGwE7J83FjHYdY6j8P1n53EwyQ/qcToLajJnm67xkNHeef1cWjblmGo=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwnJCfbrayxnuXxSzU4qsif4S0//NyRIrrLSyd1yHj/e8Wml52z sYG03SCJL75FtQU0IAsE4WlebK0UJOEfOhr9LNQwrFotvX5TZRgZ4Koz X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct9TG7fmcMIcm+htmGWciUUHUa46xHNNKEZRfx2Lp+XpiJu9CMHoWsf1piq/lj yElaw/tF7peOU9t9ZT/TAmlRXMRw2oj7g8sYGzQV1GYpLf6yM7hS8xPRbyEmxg400Y2ZQrOngv6 ieQDfm5Iu7k+QXupymhcUrxpZHk5+ZP98L7Vmj3LUC/WE3MB1TXTTMUgM35YCg90hO6BcaE0FPS ZnossgkDFz4FHzuVHQ83CsclkJ9KFHhtdV00paZ+kD7QROm45Ff2dOky0OWHiQZqm0luveMUdU6 ureivXs/512WUjuNWkxVet9dldYy0x/63A3AIhYenWK8e7uaP9F5ImT6l/1PNZgHcA4SNGEiEXa 9bE7z8caxj8UBzkL9pewSkWh1zko/Nrn9jVq74TUhPMN0nZMNI+KI7huoj2kGb64L9NOhdjuMr1 iuhPWFYR36kvpf X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IElQiR5ZeRznpZhn2F4bdi/PkMGyO3q/zy92BtCLJw/96o1AAl/GK/9tO7i9SS7zZX4X8WRPA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:4406:b0:643:8301:d14e with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-6491ade807cmr6151538a12.28.1765196331887; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 04:18:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from rimwks.local ([2001:470:1f1b:4dc:191:8abc:4faf:ed26]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-647b2ec300esm11047303a12.1.2025.12.08.04.18.49 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 08 Dec 2025 04:18:50 -0800 (PST) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:18:48 +0200 To: Konstantin Belousov Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Mateusz Guzik , Warner Losh , Mark Millard , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , brooks@freebsd.org Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 Message-ID: <20251208141848.05f47608@rimwks.local> In-Reply-To: References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <20251208035105.2313075d@rimwks.local> <202512080745.5B87jeIN025646@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.3.1 (GTK 3.24.51; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.3) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQ1HQ6PRRz3RRl On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 13:38:57 +0200 Konstantin Belousov wrote: > But there are other benefits from linking the libraries dynamically. > E.g. the same (?) user shed crocodile tears over memory usage by 64bit > system, and linking libllvm dynamically exactly reduces the memory > profile by sharing significant part of text for cc, lld, and minor > binutils. > User can buy more ram but can not buy more time/speed. (in case single thread configure/build) Also, it looks like even dyn linked llvm can work faster: I do some additional bencharks https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=287447 and dyn linked devel/llvm19 work 4+x faster than dyn linked llvm from base. (that is the reason that no one report before that it works very slow - it is less than 2x slower that it can be) Probably in base llvm have some PIE/addr randomisation enabled that drop down speed dramatically: -4x in some case. From nobody Mon Dec 8 12:32:56 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQ1bw4CVgz6Jk6P for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 12:33:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mjguzik@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x52f.google.com (mail-ed1-x52f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQ1bv5sqmz3VK2 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 12:33:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mjguzik@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=ZsQcDpuT; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mjguzik@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::52f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mjguzik@gmail.com Received: by mail-ed1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-64951939e1eso584518a12.1 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 04:33:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765197189; x=1765801989; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=ZABAmNsdSJBYgh4er8KBMGLOhAf+gNaUK2EsX39B91A=; b=ZsQcDpuTeCNTbXlhq8KnUsZ89esFfkG+NVxKZe4MzFWRq+D9s+MhImJcrzqb53Nc8q gbLEr/yrxgbvvDPJhSAXA7LiazbijtpuNJJWuHjT8pl1Np4AFW1eqEbyZgz9Rbv1V4Ty HxKLYzG2ctscxF67xzBwGTe6xAAnb/nwJbqGc/bCVpR0HGn/mgQEF7jaXvbMr1EVYh47 YaAxjIBlC5GdOuwTbTu7DXH38ekop1olfSTxMk17N+1qKq4Ym3bbfQhwlaXTpClG4h1S /HNnmzSmX2ySSgv8VGGPH0AJscJ6VjD0/x/Kk06nmfbcCjsE/V9/TxMUn00px+CyIY8N Qq9Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765197189; x=1765801989; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ZABAmNsdSJBYgh4er8KBMGLOhAf+gNaUK2EsX39B91A=; b=LpYYI/4J08v++W6gz+uo2thH+SFCCSVfJCJsm9wlUcH5Xaeva+9OBeByvdpV0B7vxh 8rIrlolXSdUbojwHdhu3uPwhU4aonoFtKTfCzx+Q45riDjxVfewqIy2FXUB4gKSBkhkC wL8UXPWX/Q1f9RuSVWrnWkyhHf8MP0f9OoG6MGgzd07uZWfglsnpP0SA9a8ndIVVe+c/ EDHRwZmjcETAg1qYX2p3LCeOFpzfH5+MHikBonOmFBkFMsLq4+egeRwCjdDXjcxO6OEU uDcpbgsaT80sOczCYsu2teI48xyilCtIS79NZ01WJ15EXt3Gtagga+H2Lyd99DX1KvoM BNoA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUNN2pOZ0LVr8D4JAscSOlzBPBkJQ8pW7SM51rsFBFP61UtLGCa1V1sAwo1pbFoBTud/rY6vqKV7rMLK/WNAfo=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz5Alj57WbWO2+Im2EjCtwrwo206X8l86c6UOcqnNWrFQhdI/BI UfEOx+ytPPositRlnS7sGvF3Q268pM26C32s+9T/QFrKZNQJ7wUIA9FjY6fPArObGrQhPql8J32 urSuaE2kqeVJ6vmRbfbangDrOPc4Y4EM= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvydTzMmKNhoWm44zgBYG8XUA7qFsZoaNnwh6zaLRy+dXkqG+KbSjNhTUv4AOO 6R5zQtOsWRNLxF62UqKRqxFpSwxKsWPXwlwkByiitKc1I6pgpZjVjbOrsrWQOK+DTNv6WYD7dH7 wj2VaO95JYGUvu+FkBH2ElLsbP0vQ4jDn6L5SVEWsDNIur11wKvFcWpOhjeYAxO3ikv4QXMHAjO GowBIfiEgo62QOQNnQi/5mMcmLziUjjwc8fqm0W/pv9jhLTLmeTwA4e2Yd1ALrsFPcu614N3/5q rNoL/FJgX8NsHL2DkQmuQ+4yzw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEF52A2HIwMlLLMw1irJ0kYGpVrNqbhZqqXDASJn7T+hunuWqJq9NJOQ9ZdJ4wgFNDQm6S1Pzni3n53/ZO2CpA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:5247:b0:640:edb3:90b5 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-64919c04278mr6605624a12.7.1765197188691; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 04:33:08 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20251206222638.44edcd5c@rimwks.local> <20251207203109.6d58b901@rimwks.local> In-Reply-To: <20251207203109.6d58b901@rimwks.local> From: Mateusz Guzik Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 13:32:56 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AQt7F2oA-EqYNThxHWWEUyvuPKX-Ide8Q1hMVBACvwLeBubmek5r42bxJIExFTM Message-ID: Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 To: Rozhuk Ivan Cc: Konstantin Belousov , FreeBSD Current , emaste@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.95 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.952]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::52f:from]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; BLOCKLISTDE_FAIL(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::52f:server fail]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQ1bv5sqmz3VK2 On Sun, Dec 7, 2025 at 7:31=E2=80=AFPM Rozhuk Ivan wr= ote: > > On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 11:07:48 +0100 > Mateusz Guzik wrote: > > That is to say, if you have time, can you please benchmark a > > statically linked clang vs clang which merely reverting the libprivate > > change? Should be a small speed up on top. > > NO_SHARED - it was static link with libc and probably other system libs. > Now clang splitted into set of libs, it is a bit different thing. > It is indeed a different thing and I am saying it also likely reduces performance compared to what it can be without the recent libprivat problem. It very much warrants benchmarking. From nobody Mon Dec 8 12:46:45 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQ1vm07Bvz6Jl7S for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 12:47:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mjguzik@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x52f.google.com (mail-ed1-x52f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQ1vl5GS6z3Wkk for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 12:46:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mjguzik@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ed1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-640aa1445c3so6430294a12.1 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 04:46:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765198018; x=1765802818; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=lYHWZ2YyoSp49j882sGwkbDn5s7wYiwtkoSazaMeWaI=; b=NqPXA2s/HA1vjxP2n+XmzWHCw1yH34snvMt1Qewxz4vF6mypEqbfNm+D3x/W/c1iLa ol7PlFVjmOzLGTY6favVfJ2PfoEOyj38VlQJvCiTqHvGlvjhrwY8Kyo2dnLChZ82EvGa gGvS7efPQtVjfr2weBp51hd+3+3qw4J2qgriy6CzaS003iMVbKsdV7fIYASI/4lteUbo Nk3AJuJTh72Pkq1WmpajbI7acghCJgGB0PJtrCfPJn1+hIVba14VWhsSzm0skaboQ5mo qZHrJkMuffT22qt0ejPdIqXwSbBdtxQ7EOBJknnUUscj8YqNFsZxahtxxw9hvj4NIXKh SLDg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765198018; x=1765802818; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=lYHWZ2YyoSp49j882sGwkbDn5s7wYiwtkoSazaMeWaI=; b=G3KjB8b1SiEFHMm9H2aToEALsq5XWWZOnMLOmuZ8U+fnXkZoaPb8jTwt+Nc55aFmLo GWfkVwBZ/x4LKW62LkeLdlPQzXNRg8bCC7UMieDJSUb4TrJoW5hXaNFUSvIAy9y5sJ91 B8pjlVgKkHYden4GJDy88NJPIvqfd8DOSvLtXUt69d1kNmqRi1Tr2mx4iiJgAF7Y4uRT Xe+5y5TvkviJi6+DMok69wQdyG0HWMqDeoOd3+TCIbm739H6Ot0C8pBbS3hrQnyDbyW7 Lt3XMhF48TOFsvNL6YU3ZVHvW7XhRV5VEERqQPYe4sYEQkMGLF6Uky9Z/KKmPk0nxPVT CXNA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCW+4Did24jakMQmcEg63jzEu2osfQa8npX29eOnwEmDFBKFspZenT0qKK8iJVmEW4k+Q6+CREL2SO3ZVu5EMQg=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yzpny6HslfXzrMSj+QKtMNmvJ98hHqvPflsnvPRpsfQWjzh3Uqz yVUrNS7Vyn3/rbHuriV2kluTIDKYEIdKH5JqkG01CaywEM849z/fqAOBwOGbwGTxJjY8+16onMC UbrK77ZKivp6t2zMrHmP2ODAiT1gBkhK4APOk X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvCTjPQVNtrqg0YiW1Bt9jOmrBf7paYLpzvn14yOuEd44bV88sCH3YR4y4OyCc YOOXqT3R2B6hWEwYUIlSaUNiy+xH/7ciLD9I4TVLEaDZHE0utF9aQ5UIz667kOVWZqGr1V9+F2x qXWdvFTpiEIDdrTdR9rR/Q/4BxApMcNUrRMouz7cIYYlOeMEDe7oz3fFe1ElLMlucqpz8fITLRz NYJaTXrm9QpJtDoLBgDXln8Yy57gNst1wZNiIFgV+jdGW1/ihmzeAFL+Z8ZJCZrQJe9oATy5oTl U2gnYB7+n32MW9TnZ4Uhd/hI4A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEgYql+2xUjMhNxEs3O/dM8oV7a/FY3y/l6HAdOenD3z8AVyymgwNssiicTAC+OMGw5Bx0PQZYS16sRip6ZCE0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:1470:b0:649:2cc6:854 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-6492cc60a99mr4525129a12.10.1765198017714; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 04:46:57 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <19A848A6-0042-4873-B70D-AD6805225B92@yahoo.com> <902C948B-0A4C-48E1-8C6C-1BC7A15209D7@yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <902C948B-0A4C-48E1-8C6C-1BC7A15209D7@yahoo.com> From: Mateusz Guzik Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 13:46:45 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AQt7F2pg2uL5qFr3JtiXoSHOoxYosbCgbU54A4efWq1naQ6bmU9RfEMtzopOIbs Message-ID: Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 [The Microsoft Dev Kit 2023 buildworld took about 6 minutes less time for jemalloc 5.3.0, not more, for non-debug contexts] To: Mark Millard Cc: Warner Losh , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , Konstantin Belousov Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQ1vl5GS6z3Wkk On Sun, Dec 7, 2025 at 5:19=E2=80=AFPM Mark Millard wro= te: > > On Dec 6, 2025, at 19:03, Mark Millard wrote: > > > On Dec 6, 2025, at 14:25, Warner Losh wrote: > > > >> On Sat, Dec 6, 2025, 3:06=E2=80=AFPM Mark Millard = wrote: > >> > >>> On Dec 6, 2025, at 06:14, Mark Millard wrote: > >>> > >>>> Mateusz Guzik wrote on > >>>> Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2025 10:50:08 UTC : > >>>> > >>>>> I got pointed at phoronix: https://www.phoronix.com/review/freebsd-= 15-amd-epyc > >>>>> > >>>>> While I don't treat their results as gospel, a FreeBSD vs FreeBSD t= est > >>>>> showing a slowdown most definitely warrants a closer look. > >>>>> > >>>>> They observed slowdowns when using iperf over localhost and when co= mpiling llvm. > >>>>> > >>>>> I can confirm both problems and more. > >>>>> > >>>>> I found the profiling tooling for userspace to be broken again so I > >>>>> did not investigate much and I'm not going to dig into it further. > >>>>> > >>>>> Test box is AMD EPYC 9454 48-Core Processor, with the 2 systems > >>>>> running as 8 core vms under kvm. > >>>>> . . . > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Both of the below are from ampere3 (aarch64) instead, its > >>>> 2 most recent "bulk -a" runs that completed, elapsed times > >>>> shown for qt6-webengine-6.9.3 builds: > >>>> > >>>> 150releng-arm64-quarterly qt6-webengine-6.9.3 53:33:46 > >>>> 135arm64-default qt6-webengine-6.9.3 38:43:36 > >>>> > >>>> For reference: > >>>> > >>>> Host OSVERSION: 1600000 > >>>> Jail OSVERSION: 1500068 > >>>> > >>>> vs. > >>>> > >>>> Host OSVERSION: 1600000 > >>>> Jail OSVERSION: 1305000 > >>>> > >>>> The difference for the above is in the Jail's world builds, > >>>> not in the boot's (kernel+world) builds. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> For reference: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/ampere3/build.html?mastername=3D150re= leng-arm64-quarterly&build=3D88084f9163ae > >>>> > >>>> build of www/qt6-webengine | qt6-webengine-6.9.3 ended at Sun Nov 30= 05:40:02 -00 2025 > >>>> build time: 2D:05:33:52 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/ampere3/build.html?mastername=3D135ar= m64-default&build=3Df5384fe59be6 > >>>> > >>>> build of www/qt6-webengine | qt6-webengine-6.9.3 ended at Sat Nov 22= 15:33:34 -00 2025 > >>>> build time: 1D:14:43:41 > >>> > >>> > >>> Expanding the notes to before and after jemalloc 5.3.0 > >>> was merged to main: beefy18 was the main-amd64 builder > >>> before and somewhat after the jemalloc 5.3.0 merge from > >>> vendor branch: > >>> > >>> Before: p2650762431ca_s51affb7e971 261:29:13 building 36074 port-pack= ages, start 05 Aug 2025 01:10:59 GMT > >>> ( jemalloc 5.3.0 merge from ven= dor branch: 15 Aug 2025) > >>> After : p9652f95ce8e4_sb45a181a74c 428:49:20 building 36318 port-pack= ages, start 19 Aug 2025 01:30:33 GMT > >>> > >>> (The log files are long gone for port-packages built.) > >>> > >>> main-15 used a debug jail world but 15.0-RELEASE does not. > >>> > >>> I'm not aware of such a port-package builder context for a > >>> non-debug jail world before and after a jemalloc 5.3.0 merge. > >>> > >> A few months before I landed the jemalloc patches, i did 4 or 5 from d= irt buildworlds. The elasped time was, iirc, with 1 or 2%. Enough to see ma= ybe a diff with the small sample size, but not enough for ministat to trigg= er at 95%. I didn't recall keeping the data for this and can't find it now.= And I'm not even sure, in hindsight, I ran a good experiment. It might be = related, or not, but it would be easy enough for someone to setup a two jai= ls: one just before and one just after. Build from scratch the world (same = hash) on both. That would test it since you'd be holding all other variable= s constant. > >> > >> When we imported the tip of FreeBSD main at work, we didn't get a cpu = change trigger from our tests that I recall... > > > > > > The range of commits look like: > > > > =E2=80=A2 git: 9a7c512a6149 - main - ucred groups: restore a useful = comment Eric van Gyzen > > =E2=80=A2 git: bf6039f09a30 - main - jemalloc: Unthin contrib/jemall= oc Warner Losh > > =E2=80=A2 git: a0dfba697132 - main - jemalloc: Update jemalloc.xml.i= n per FreeBSD-diffs Warner Losh > > =E2=80=A2 git: 718b13ba6c5d - main - jemalloc: Add FreeBSD's updates= to jemalloc_preamble.h.in Warner Losh > > =E2=80=A2 git: 6371645df7b0 - main - jemalloc: Add JEMALLOC_PRIVATE_= NAMESPACE for the libc namespace Warner Losh > > =E2=80=A2 git: da260ab23f26 - main - jemalloc: Only replace _pthread= _mutex_init_calloc_cb in private namespace Warner Losh > > =E2=80=A2 git: c43cad871720 - main - jemalloc: Merge from jemalloc 5= .3.0 vendor branch Warner Losh > > =E2=80=A2 git: 69af14a57c9e - main - jemalloc: Note update in UPDATI= NG and RELNOTES Warner Losh > > > > I've started a build of a non-debug 9a7c512a6149 world > > to later create a chroot to do a test buildworld in. > > > > I'll also do a build of a non-debug 69af14a57c9e world > > to later create the other chroot to do a test > > buildworld in. > > > > non-debug means my use of: > > > > WITH_MALLOC_PRODUCTION=3D > > WITHOUT_ASSERT_DEBUG=3D > > WITHOUT_PTHREADS_ASSERTIONS=3D > > WITHOUT_LLVM_ASSERTIONS=3D > > > > I've used "env WITH_META_MODE=3D" as it cuts down on the > > volume and frequency of scrolling output. I'll do the > > same later. > > > > If there is anything you want controlled in a different > > way, let me know. > > > > The Windows Dev Kit 2023 is booted (world and kernel) > > with: > > > > # uname -apKU > > FreeBSD aarch64-main-pbase 16.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT main-n2819= 22-4872b48b175c GENERIC-NODEBUG arm64 aarch64 1600004 1600004 > > > > which is from an official pkgbase distribution. So the > > boot-world is a debug world but the boot-kernel is not. > > > > The Windows Dev Kit 2023 will take some time for such > > -j8 builds and I may end up sleeping in the middle of > > the sequence someplace. So it may be a while before > > I've any comparison/contrast data to report. > > > > > Summary for jemalloc for before vs. at 5.3.0 > for *non-debug* contexts doing the buildworld : > > before 5.3.0: 9754 seconds (about 2.7 hrs) > with 5.3.0: 9384 seconds (about 2.6 hrs) > While in principle this can accurately reflect the difference, the benchmark itself is not valid as is. First, you can't just run it once -- the result needs to be proven repeatable and profiled. For a build of a that duration, for this few resources, for all I know the real factor was randomness from I/O. That aside you need a sanitized baseline. From the description it not clear to me at all if you are doing the build with the clang perf regression fixed or not. Even that aside, I outlined 3 more regressions: - slower binary startup to begin with - slower syscalls which fail with an error - slower syscall interface in the first place Out of the the first one is most important here. If I was to work on this, seeing that the question at hand is whether the jemalloc update is a problem, I would bypass all of the above and instead take 14.3 (not stable/14!) as a baseline + jemalloc update on top. This eliminates all of the factors other than jemalloc itself. building world also seems a little fishy here and it is not clear to me at all what version have you built -- was the new jemalloc thing building new jemalloc and old jemalloc building old jemalloc? More imporantly I would be worried some of the build picks up whatever jemalloc it finds to use during some of the build. I would benchmark this by building a big port (not timing dependencies of the port, just the port itself -- maybe even chromium or firefox). That's of course quite a bit of effort and if there is nobody to do that (or compatible), imo the pragmatic play is to revert the jemalloc update for the time being. This restores the known working state and should the update be a good thing it can land for 15.1, maybe fixed up. From nobody Mon Dec 8 13:00:25 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQ2CJ44XGz6JlpT; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 13:00:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQ2CH6kXfz3Z29; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 13:00:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11749D7892; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 13:00:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.18.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 5B8D0PGO064483; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 13:00:25 GMT (envelope-from phk) Message-Id: <202512081300.5B8D0PGO064483@critter.freebsd.dk> To: Mateusz Guzik cc: Mark Millard , Warner Losh , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , Konstantin Belousov Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 [The Microsoft Dev Kit 2023 buildworld took about 6 minutes less time for jemalloc 5.3.0, not more, for non-debug contexts] In-reply-to: From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <19A848A6-0042-4873-B70D-AD6805225B92@yahoo.com> <902C948B-0A4C-48E1-8C6C-1BC7A15209D7@yahoo.com> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-ID: <64477.1765198825.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2025 13:00:25 +0000 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQ2CH6kXfz3Z29 -------- Mateusz Guzik writes: > First, you can't just run it once -- the result needs to be proven > repeatable and profiled. […] https://wiki.freebsd.org/BenchmarkAdvice -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From nobody Mon Dec 8 13:38:22 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQ33C0mCFz6Jpcf for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 13:38:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imb@protected-networks.net) Received: from mail.protected-networks.net (mail.protected-networks.net [202.12.127.228]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.protected-networks.net", Issuer "R13" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQ33B1DLxz3gXk for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 13:38:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imb@protected-networks.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=protected-networks.net header.s=201508 header.b=gW1QjuLW; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=protected-networks.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of imb@protected-networks.net designates 202.12.127.228 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=imb@protected-networks.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d= protected-networks.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :content-type:in-reply-to:from:from:content-language:references :subject:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:date:message-id; s=201508; t=1765201102; bh=x0vrTywFoevwc7uhX9EE59KMAZCt1K8qcdYS mhIjWmg=; b=gW1QjuLWT8NeAIrDzkG8i8FnWaDB4i2UN5KRxKz3LjIL7xX/RYiM KUW7QRzNKAKQ0q6yoQexjX9tbGGIH64ZET9JS4vMikyId/torqcFjIJ3COGvL/Am eZP09e6PNuPTx4trmpXQWUadAS3t4ZMEat08k0xbszo92wmUarMTzWo= Received: from [192.168.1.9] (d5540.auburn.protected-networks.net [192.168.1.9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: imb@mail.protected-networks.net) by mail.protected-networks.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5F93BF49D; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 08:38:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <75037780-3748-4cf3-8a44-a0e9c0b76e06@protected-networks.net> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 08:38:22 -0500 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: fib selection and persistence using ipfw To: Rozhuk Ivan Cc: freebsd-current References: <20350073-abc5-4116-9fd7-8e8f708a26d4@protected-networks.net> <20251208031147.393b2391@rimwks.local> Content-Language: en-NZ From: Michael Butler In-Reply-To: <20251208031147.393b2391@rimwks.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[protected-networks.net,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[protected-networks.net:s=201508]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; BLOCKLISTDE_FAIL(0.00)[202.12.127.228:server fail]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[protected-networks.net:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQ33B1DLxz3gXk On 12/7/25 20:11, Rozhuk Ivan wrote: > On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 17:28:49 -0500 > Michael Butler wrote: > >> Having two upstream providers, I'm trying to enforce symmetric >> routing which, in OpenBSD's pf config can be implemented using .. >> >> # Inbound control-plane to the firewall itself (per-WAN reply-to for >> symmetry) >> pass in on $wan_a proto { tcp, udp, icmp } to ($wan_a) \ >> reply-to ($wan_a $gw_a) keep state >> pass in on $wan_b proto { tcp, udp, icmp } to ($wan_b) \ >> reply-to ($wan_b $gw_b) keep state >> >> I've tried all manner of ipfw packet tagging in the hope that it >> would yield similar results, e.g. >> >> setfib 1 ip from any to any recv tap0 >> setfib 1 ip from any to any tagged 1 >> count tag 1 ip from any to any recv tap0 >> >> [ .. ] >> >> check-state >> allow ip from .. keep-state >> deny log ip from any to any >> >> Is anyone else doing something like this on -current? > > > Actually no, but: > ifconfig vlan1001 172.16.0.31/24 fib 1 > ifconfig vlan1002 172.16.0.32/24 fib 2 > > Do not forget set fib to network interface like it done in examlpe. > In my case if same IP+mask set on more than one net if - only last one will process packets to sockets. Interface FIBs only work when the connection stays on the same machine. In my case, I want to sustain the routing state for packets traversing it. ISP-A -> Border-GW -> Mail-Server ^ ISP-B-----| Border-GW has multiple FIBs defined and sets the relevant FIB as packets arrive over their respective interfaces. Destination address is the same (Mail-Server). When a connection is established, there is an IPFW state table entry in the kernel on Border-GW and which contains the FIB in ipfw_dyn_rule->id->fib What isn't happening is that replies (e.g. SYN-ACK) don't go out the interface on which the SYN arrived despite having that info :-( Is this possible with IPFW? If not, will it work with PF on FreeBSD? I did see some historical notes about 'reply-to' and don't know if they're relevant, Michael From nobody Mon Dec 8 13:42:07 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQ37S75MRz6Jpv6 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 13:42:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grembo@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQ37S5kCLz3jw6; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 13:42:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grembo@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765201332; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=EYaFgDGI5Sb3jc0nlQ6vIm/cQtYHDTYke5gMR61WUaI=; b=Hn0Vw/osNZCIUh5TFLmHD/Sez8K6GmJjjpa2bvDK2sSL2kaxzM5m3uJmK/R6Q4AiNcZ3fO oBah9RhWBu1EF8FZjbBKFRKVZ3rVLi9a81S5hLmSJ7QF3zSO3ITNt01iZKzYNHerQUFHmu E4aY3/5hav49OBQS5T9GCL1iDLk+S3SnATdzcljeyZawYf8dkd+n9ADv0T+SJ4RDUFCPEV /v4Z/3+Dodt231q1t+gqQAryc3QAf4EwVH7vaHEfdoiDfwVguI6ig7adexJ2UeTCayECpu NuTT/7ISXOuukVfXvnqr65zWPraeY/tdlVXTUCKA7rl60zvJ9QIOlESS9K7ZOg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765201332; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=EYaFgDGI5Sb3jc0nlQ6vIm/cQtYHDTYke5gMR61WUaI=; b=yZ/KZE1yEz42qxZqXlqZsDjWVn4E4nP+D8GSfDQ5AKBGE8JV3F3fm0olbUQFTdWWa0nOgH ScsYYeIAUMEwThjH/5IhEmmim6r0d7z5axHKjpHGWu8xk0skP7gssLSvtVayAwYTrQD2Lb kkQ/AfafO5dxTBYpHI6AJ3MjEBpmPy6yW3TxW2bBcmmLP5ZV4a93xHF//7/DSmC6O91jpc 0prQISuO3EiKbcRzPvt0TGH7vMSk3QY9sbuqdO8B/3D697xIiJTejaPQ9QkvPb0uxMiWfH vKPWYvxCyOmWAGi2kiXdkdaxt3NV50YK/iioKpO+sRqS2uT0TbTu/feokkTJsg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1765201332; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=jckI12+ONPcvzMT+FISeHYSLwm+KLGMKPoYTAPPLBlQ9FVrH97mSSNRdd10RwXhFtxLo/o oXlYC/3ZCHAF++EDfslj+7CSQdfScLE6z2Ql5EUrSZomtgVuEFIwk7rRa1sx913nupKiOp yBKPlDgvCLooz3qnLheLWxY2D/FCziugoYTcfnH+Fbd6llq54D+/YiZgqDQLpOXlKeWNPN T89ayHsW116QC+n4hA6ydTpvSuoUBdpzraEU20r1ktcoo7aabnXpbhA9al2X6G9pZEBTbe /iMeZ6ERXgIWpoRA8oRPhmP87ZPo2W6c+T9rJ18BOhQAZ2yiA9CnVnGL3xatYg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from mail.evolve.de (mail.evolve.de [213.239.217.29]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA512) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: grembo/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4dQ37S1b0fz15b5; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 13:42:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grembo@freebsd.org) Received: by mail.evolve.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 2f5d8a15 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Mon, 8 Dec 2025 13:42:10 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:42:07 +0100 From: Michael Gmelin To: Michael Butler Cc: Rozhuk Ivan , freebsd-current Subject: Re: fib selection and persistence using ipfw Message-ID: <20251208144207.6b1f4ea6.grembo@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <75037780-3748-4cf3-8a44-a0e9c0b76e06@protected-networks.net> References: <20350073-abc5-4116-9fd7-8e8f708a26d4@protected-networks.net> <20251208031147.393b2391@rimwks.local> <75037780-3748-4cf3-8a44-a0e9c0b76e06@protected-networks.net> X-Face: $wrgCtfdVw_H9WAY?S&9+/F"!41z'L$uo*WzT8miX?kZ~W~Lr5W7v?j0Sde\mwB&/ypo^}> +a'4xMc^^KroE~+v^&^#[B">soBo1y6(TW6#UZiC]o>C6`ej+i Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAJFBMVEWJBwe5BQDl LASZU0/LTEWEfHbyj0Txi32+sKrp1Mv944X8/fm1rS+cAAAACXBIWXMAAAsTAAAL EwEAmpwYAAAAB3RJTUUH3wESCxwC7OBhbgAAACFpVFh0Q29tbWVudAAAAAAAQ3Jl YXRlZCB3aXRoIFRoZSBHSU1QbbCXAAAAAghJREFUOMu11DFvEzEUAGCfEhBVFzuq AKkLd0O6VrIQsLXVSZXoWE5N1K3DobBBA9fQpRWc8OkWouaIjedWKiyREOKs+3PY fvalCNjgLVHeF7/3bMtBzV8C/VsQ8tecEgCcDgrzjekwKZ7TwsJZd/ywEKwwP+ZM 8P3drTsAwWn2mpWuDDuYiK1bFs6De0KUUFw0tWxm+D4AIhuuvZqtyWYeO7jQ4Aea 7jUqI+ixhQoHex4WshEvSXdood7stlv4oSuFOC4tqGcr0NjEqXgV4mMJO38nld4+ xKNxRDon7khyKVqY7YR4d+Cg0OMrkWXZOM7YDkEfKiilCn1qYv4mighZiynuHHOA Wq9QJq+BIES7lMFUtcikMnkDGHUoncA+uHgrP0ctIEqfwLHzeSo+eUA66AqzwN6n 2ZHJhw6Qh/PoyC/QENyEyC/AyNjq74Bs+3UH0xYwzDUC4B97HgLocg1QLYgDDO1v f3UX9Y307Ew4AHh67YAFFsxEpkXwpXY3eIgMhAAE3R19L919nNnuD2wlPcDE3UeT L2ytEICQib9BXgS2fU8PrD82ToYO1OEmMSnYTjSqSv9wdC0tPYC+rQRQD9ESnldF CyqfmiYW+tlALt8gH2xrMdC/youbjzPXEun+/ReXsMCDyve3dZc09fn2Oas8oXGc Jj6/fOeK5UmSMPmf/jL+GD8BEj0k/Fn6IO4AAAAASUVORK5CYII= List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 08:38:22 -0500 Michael Butler wrote: > On 12/7/25 20:11, Rozhuk Ivan wrote: > > On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 17:28:49 -0500 > > Michael Butler wrote: > > > >> Having two upstream providers, I'm trying to enforce symmetric > >> routing which, in OpenBSD's pf config can be implemented using .. > >> > >> # Inbound control-plane to the firewall itself (per-WAN reply-to > >> for symmetry) > >> pass in on $wan_a proto { tcp, udp, icmp } to ($wan_a) \ > >> reply-to ($wan_a $gw_a) keep state > >> pass in on $wan_b proto { tcp, udp, icmp } to ($wan_b) \ > >> reply-to ($wan_b $gw_b) keep state > >> > >> I've tried all manner of ipfw packet tagging in the hope that it > >> would yield similar results, e.g. > >> > >> setfib 1 ip from any to any recv tap0 > >> setfib 1 ip from any to any tagged 1 > >> count tag 1 ip from any to any recv tap0 > >> > >> [ .. ] > >> > >> check-state > >> allow ip from .. keep-state > >> deny log ip from any to any > >> > >> Is anyone else doing something like this on -current? > > > > > > Actually no, but: > > ifconfig vlan1001 172.16.0.31/24 fib 1 > > ifconfig vlan1002 172.16.0.32/24 fib 2 > > > > Do not forget set fib to network interface like it done in examlpe. > > In my case if same IP+mask set on more than one net if - only last > > one will process packets to sockets. > > Interface FIBs only work when the connection stays on the same > machine. > > In my case, I want to sustain the routing state for packets > traversing it. > > ISP-A -> Border-GW -> Mail-Server > ^ > ISP-B-----| > > Border-GW has multiple FIBs defined and sets the relevant FIB as > packets arrive over their respective interfaces. > > Destination address is the same (Mail-Server). > > When a connection is established, there is an IPFW state table entry > in the kernel on Border-GW and which contains the FIB in > ipfw_dyn_rule->id->fib > > What isn't happening is that replies (e.g. SYN-ACK) don't go out the > interface on which the SYN arrived despite having that info :-( > > Is this possible with IPFW? If not, will it work with PF on FreeBSD? > I did see some historical notes about 'reply-to' and don't know if > they're relevant, > In general, reply-to works with FreeBSD's pf. On 14.3 it also works across multiple hosts when using pfsync (usually in combination with carp). Michael -- Michael Gmelin From nobody Mon Dec 8 16:58:02 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQ7TT2RwQz6K4wd for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 16:58:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mavbsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx1-xb12c.google.com (mail-yx1-xb12c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b12c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQ7TT0TxWz3N3Y for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 16:58:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mavbsd@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-yx1-xb12c.google.com with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-63fc6d9fde5so4465778d50.3 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 08:58:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765213084; x=1765817884; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=MzxNc8gnLplrPTDDmYN4gaUpBmntCv9TFdI+hgblqAQ=; b=XsnyxVVj8Mdt5oF69Xph6tXK4PIeATJFjHs58gNNLazJFn46geFca45FXGpLpkodlT ByC2ciBOvHwZ5zc3D3MTdaISYO1UZYnpjRFKVsiaE0/M0D6ATNxleXeVThZ/HFyWN+r7 JE2BExVNi6/rliyIGRVlRgQcyQLLOMF2po4+oQT9My2S2JeaTMwEFxDqwCDwEp7kgXlI OASBE4AjHSacmnebSwypmq+olUgdT9mb4G7aGU4zlbp8VMHr9zvliPtkfsbh+l/cqC4X 2ZvSDiPd8frB7gKlucjsc8CHiDjR9IraCIzLJ+zGL+dsIB+pNFQ+K/HTDnFVAamcqmnf cgTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765213084; x=1765817884; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=MzxNc8gnLplrPTDDmYN4gaUpBmntCv9TFdI+hgblqAQ=; b=dQDgRacvQS1bYUANVCf/nh/uKVElQg8SYlUNT6hh/i/NgrpSDlRP1IcmXw5EZgWwov kYu1YhbrtKj3jUo+qRzdcwarh22BUz5pF5hWJ7esDbHCMe0fyFu7sD7I6dHMYWyVd+53 mHsB3xu8qcLp9BnkLJIi3EYHZBp0WNhQPRWi8UL35JAj+/ytxG+a8i3nsIpjP7DSbitr S+9fJ+LeBX//Nz8E1kCRXHecsiM0I9mDJBUHRIazKR3CHSt975RJ2NFHQgdzqDzx6KBT H7L5vIXl/lOSb8G+6XGR2D1jxtStOhPZbzhWgkqFccXNMVW44X2ZOptGx1H6WO0iTVam whRQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyImIwK0Gabjyu3yMPwFmFoG9UmDqJZ6KT7kzkX3v/tY7QmCqIj EHWCxFMu8OaBxl1brV09gsJFmJKIBk6z2O+bIeHHriqU+JyD7lRUSBfI X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsespVM8NbKmKZYblXDDJ2N2+l0eZ32hdLyxrkTL0IvsA7sASn/bGibpScXyj0 VdzpgOFjnFrMsa2OHWqd1RJPH+Pwg9lsBOzk4evORsi8wroSRPYh6InItdliAE1aUEfKdtECoX4 23gG5DuF9eU2dhnbcBjz2/HNVMA7qNCoTXG9ZTkrUXa4QnUWu1tuFF83mljQfcyrDPEdtHYz8Fw Rh9spJ9RFe1dY+dZ7ENvWRsjkAl7aiTTFRfeENrsZ6Txm7D+Jb0ldNiZ6w0HcF+QPgk5qE5/8FP /bsud6e39equiyhTS7FMTNdp9QBqQDFfOwBWG6lskz5fjvWW51htBYzmxDtQCFt7ROtZ54PLU6P BjKCtjDEo80JThRs/yrdglOWFOcAaG7T2k1pZ9N9IKIVlqvh0qoUVfcnYXHecVlafEXalLB1BXk 96x4fRGtWCmX8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF/1I5kE4Q9/Gh/8oeSJJR7K/U1kdpRiC7zBDbjT+dSOf4sk+jqAzt1mGkM9ed5umpnO9kiLg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:690e:1604:b0:644:4749:83fd with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-6444e7dd32amr6087061d50.73.1765213084390; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 08:58:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.230.42.55] ([38.32.73.2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 00721157ae682-78c1b4ac94dsm50207127b3.9.2025.12.08.08.58.03 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Dec 2025 08:58:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 11:58:02 -0500 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: What happened to 16? To: Thomas Schweikle , Chris Cc: freebsd-current , FreeBSD Cluster Administrators References: <7a177da4388cde549e152e0ac8d13ab1@bsdforge.com> <213a7c6a4a63025645dd148d12fed016@bsdforge.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Alexander Motin In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQ7TT0TxWz3N3Y GitHub's ZFS CI also went unhappy: Loading https://download.freebsd.org/snapshots/CI-IMAGES/16.0-CURRENT/amd64/Latest/FreeBSD-16.0-CURRENT-amd64-BASIC-CI-ufs.raw.xz ... ERROR 404: Not Found. Looking myself, I don't see the "Latest" directory in the "amd64". % host download.freebsd.org download.freebsd.org is an alias for download.geo.freebsd.org. download.geo.freebsd.org has address 163.237.194.52 download.geo.freebsd.org has IPv6 address 2001:4978:1000:1395::15:1 download.geo.freebsd.org mail is handled by 0 . On 08.12.2025 05:53, Thomas Schweikle wrote: > Hmmm. If I click on this link send by me, I'll get a list of what is > available. Clicking on one entry starts downloading. > > $ dig download.freebsd.org > > ; <<>> DiG 9.20.11-1ubuntu2.1-Ubuntu <<>> download.freebsd.org download.freebsd.org> > ;; global options: +cmd > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 29834 > ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 5, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1 > > ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: > ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 65494 > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;download.freebsd.org .          IN      A > > ;; ANSWER SECTION: > download.freebsd.org .   2391    IN >  CNAME download.geo.freebsd.org . > download.geo.freebsd.org . 150   IN >  A       151.101.65.242 > download.geo.freebsd.org . 150   IN >  A       151.101.1.242 > download.geo.freebsd.org . 150   IN >  A       151.101.193.242 > download.geo.freebsd.org . 150   IN >  A       151.101.129.242 > > ;; Query time: 157 msec > ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.53#53(127.0.0.53) (UDP) > ;; WHEN: Mon Dec 08 11:52:52 CET 2025 > ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 140 > > What do you receive if digging about the address of download.freebsd.org > ? > > > On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 11:42 AM Chris > wrote: > > On 2025-12-08 02:33, Thomas Schweikle wrote: > > You looked for 16-stable? > No. It's a releng. :-) > > > Does not exist. It is CURRENT without 16. You'll > > find it at: > > > > https://download.freebsd.org/snapshots/ISO-IMAGES/16.0/ download.freebsd.org/snapshots/ISO-IMAGES/16.0/> > Nope. As I indicated below. All those references return 404. > 16 no longer exists on the FreeBSD servers. :O > > > Thank you for taking the time to respond. :-) > > > > > looking for ISO-Images. > > > > On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 8:37 AM Chris > wrote: > > > >> I just got a new laptop and tried to boot 13.5,14 and 15 > >> but it hangs at the video -- something about loosing contact > >> with sc. So I went to get a copy of 16. But download.freebsd.org > > >> doesn't know where it is. All the links to it from FreeBSD.org > >> return 404. > >> > >> So where is it? > >> > >> Thanks! :-) > >> > > --Chris > > -- > There is no such place as the internet > > > > -- > Thomas -- Alexander Motin From nobody Mon Dec 8 17:01:35 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQ7Yg43Cvz6K4WG for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 17:01:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (udns.ultimatedns.net [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R12" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQ7Yf6G0hz3PT2 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 17:01:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 5B8H1ZZa070459; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 09:01:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=bsdforge.com; s=bsdforge; t=1765213301; x=1765213901; r=y; bh=KLAz4mvdj05nFVVRYZqSQjNoW6XsmqPA10huMnBDd4U=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=hzv6U+Kpnz8ek9m9s//q3zqYW9KAR97s4u7gL5SJrhWSN0pzS1vrl8GDq/JlG7ZyF tb4CZzThyZ6dp6nIrzAZEeDLQO9X7lVxiOOlWkhyRv2i4Dzur91fJFeFWrTLmmDgOm IWHWVx1OISY9V9u3yNemZ4cqKijos7GZsSDMSUjZ57hwbaPuTsFq8/Vi1MMrMNLR2F Obr4RgNUcVsJqoNR+1AVdFPlUb/NSUnwbjvd8i1WVsOk0TDuj4MlB1+QaK6OTv8ENE 8cGfLFNFiKN/7ektqI7iR8T0b7xldLocPY7tsGQ7v5s9xNQB8N4kwM3XA8saX+zuA/ hAuuz01rOOlDQ== List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2025 09:01:35 -0800 From: Chris To: Thomas Schweikle Cc: freebsd-current Subject: Re: What happened to 16? In-Reply-To: References: <7a177da4388cde549e152e0ac8d13ab1@bsdforge.com> <213a7c6a4a63025645dd148d12fed016@bsdforge.com> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <49642ef777d94197c7bea0d791b79066@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_48e9e401147d0090ba1f021b545f1d4a" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQ7Yf6G0hz3PT2 --=_48e9e401147d0090ba1f021b545f1d4a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 2025-12-08 02:53, Thomas Schweikle wrote: > Hmmm. If I click on this link send by me, I'll get a list of what is > available. Clicking on one entry starts downloading. Hmm. I hadn't thought that it might be a regional thing. Odd tho, as the mirroring outfit is a Seattle based firm and I'm not 30 some miles from Seattle. I guess I'll just have to wait. Appreciate your confirmation, Thomas. > > $ dig download.freebsd.org > > ; <<>> DiG 9.20.11-1ubuntu2.1-Ubuntu <<>> download.freebsd.org > ;; global options: +cmd > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 29834 > ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 5, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1 > > ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: > ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 65494 > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;download.freebsd.org. IN A > > ;; ANSWER SECTION: > download.freebsd.org. 2391 IN CNAME download.geo.freebsd.org. > download.geo.freebsd.org. 150 IN A 151.101.65.242 > download.geo.freebsd.org. 150 IN A 151.101.1.242 > download.geo.freebsd.org. 150 IN A 151.101.193.242 > download.geo.freebsd.org. 150 IN A 151.101.129.242 > > ;; Query time: 157 msec > ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.53#53(127.0.0.53) (UDP) > ;; WHEN: Mon Dec 08 11:52:52 CET 2025 > ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 140 > > What do you receive if digging about the address of download.freebsd.org? > > > On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 11:42 AM Chris wrote: > >> On 2025-12-08 02:33, Thomas Schweikle wrote: >> > You looked for 16-stable? >> No. It's a releng. :-) >> >> > Does not exist. It is CURRENT without 16. You'll >> > find it at: >> > >> > https://download.freebsd.org/snapshots/ISO-IMAGES/16.0/ >> Nope. As I indicated below. All those references return 404. >> 16 no longer exists on the FreeBSD servers. :O >> >> >> Thank you for taking the time to respond. :-) >> >> > >> > looking for ISO-Images. >> > >> > On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 8:37 AM Chris wrote: >> > >> >> I just got a new laptop and tried to boot 13.5,14 and 15 >> >> but it hangs at the video -- something about loosing contact >> >> with sc. So I went to get a copy of 16. But download.freebsd.org >> >> doesn't know where it is. All the links to it from FreeBSD.org >> >> return 404. >> >> >> >> So where is it? >> >> >> >> Thanks! :-) >> >> --Chris -- There is no such place as the internet --=_48e9e401147d0090ba1f021b545f1d4a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xE512722F.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xE512722F.asc; size=3074 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGf/G0IBCADARuJc6IcwOe3jv7dQsP1X/EIHvCFExPbTmlMNFMXbMMccQUnV o8ayEn+wmTvPhw7uL3PDk7DQs16W1sN2b8UMFc804cVWNGtoG3rA+Np+TFEYlXJx eh5Q42VHptkuwzHKl+q2utkpRlS7uHyfjsInQAoHxLyi/wrsaZTHHhDbLLhJ5Ez0 arohQ2Q1w0M5e9rW8Fy5rpC7RpC6uO1SZMxcbdqURI/BBqxbiD1iW62cDWFkfFX+ dtaEXghFV7BIBMDSrgIunGoEfdMZgXys7O6bPWn8z0cuOZIPj4HrjoCYARyQ+sdc rjz/k06SLM/UvEZDorJhT4DbYrwMNvaPWJiPABEBAAG0HkNocmlzIDxic2QtbGlz dHNAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBNQQQAQgAHwUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgEC GQECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci8bSwf/fK3QcTYXRMrv82HIp4SiGCSD7/bRmyWr ipv2vzknGFHxPBN4AEWIqF/U4j5oDXaodyU6xsy59Z47/lgbyzyZiVR6nmJVgZVf el/EgwnLt7ZuYGLLEhIN2pd9itJkB8PMPZrUHMWgIw8BxX5YFYGuyiNe9pGn0Coj 98t/v3fouhqksH+BpB4TBHJBBDSxSiMm66VTJX4Xcnpf0ZnQVP4GBuoyodnFBfdI wqftPLESsCC08lUhD2j7v2NRWwMi/q3ed8D6VCKPImBByYnBZL5gu56K5bwqaQfN itu06APuIYnG71qxgn1EPO63lovWP5NZGgOKvzs3K+JfPF79BiOUFbQjQ2hyaXMg PG1haWxvcEBocmNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zLm5ldD6JATEEEAEIABwFAmf/G0IGCwkH CAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvBH8H9RGwzZuU6+zvH1WjQa97 yWpEt9rC+BIBJThev2Cpls2LqBqIeIQVZPnyLAZWgFaiezL6+xbvcNt6OnfidIYa x8iRwCMC6/Bs8H2Wef9qfGxXi+jHPLYQk3juiZVmBhIK6FJZkzaW4wSiawofwzbp zqNxO8dZ0j4foaJZrNi8iqsvKjiiHoSFaJtumIThAeydI18CNLeFaS53sk5nad6I wCYeFKmJ/22dMP7DOFEgyG1iNYgY+AGREMkEsBiLpqYjJ5asK+1UdUy/TRly1hOt HHxCiX0Fh9ZYM2vLIj7sq4LKaMPGeYC3qTqBYugVeyz7LkiI2ft/BKveA5JxuYKk ZrQiQ2hyaXMgPG5hbm9nQGhyY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMubmV0PokBMgQQAQgAHAUC Z/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci+4Bwf8D0Ogk2/X ud/CsAgHozwzKPqfesL5SRWM14hLnU9/EHoplnZgNexbVY1wXIi2FYPo5cve9QxW Nmt3S3UTF9j2fGqv0wmeHv3EqogFUHnftLyWpbeTPOFDMIQp/BOD6ygfeXxXWxRT L6zvUkSrDtHvkQHPWGRxwP+ihWjpw9AQR/R4/qAuTAZZM0O7UnJEo4mWXatl+utF wegG2giwFTTxfF+1rMpFtUDjYCpRQ6ZmE+gC1mHUMoH7GJMQv12DbqwKrxtwGfd0 AJNO3ZDnxl24BmIfl1YqQGZQ5iIH7At4YItESbU45hoNNsG9oDrsil78EUCAtXHd UPScj+eXaeAkgrQfQ2hyaXMgPHBvcnRtYXN0ZXJAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBMgQQ AQgAHAUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci9o7Af+ Lwu5hJlI5HZNGwAll7QTIFZVW+y4OEg+amhxTDGbAAqlnSIkHC1KgkmIOOrThme3 kTFCqfIIsuP73yKxHq6kRG0zH5/7asAPNAUOfzD7B2o/gMyuTRKyG5r9f3UmACr4 6qvtFhIwROXr6+NNT2IKg3l0/8F58A0N/TR8D2PTHeo4x6jYcZQDCrCy7BAdk3cu V16k4z/1UzRa07b5McezbWL20cIaZ+dqNcCjKZpzPlTyTCGgrNNtaDpNVhoWUKMB YNcKql+tfC1IpX8l+IU6OBKcDKMkQojvO1QrZqY8MDJGo8jq/CtotQ8+IpAai3Bx dQEsxrxlcKTR4rUqvd8VGbkBDQRn/xtCAQgAv5Nv/aQN72xsLik+K73PJwpUmyhu vnI6stM6dSecylXVHjZ7C4n/m0eQEeQCl+9lByHR9N8H+WS3DtAd4pmciiIxRQLA JZiuaLYcy9ziy1h7130VoR7hhJHzo9FIhWkTGlCDX3egUZrYhMiwFUO8lNltLB8o TBvIrMSsnUzawtQjq/otv0Jf+oBPbG+gIYnAm7w6r86n/l+eVxf5eEoS7wV0DJfp b2jE5zWErWk8I/tq4e8T+1VQeVQR6wz+NrUCSxkPkpNAm19AFUHOk//yvMGWVlDW F6gr3ErN2a0w/kZ0lz3Msxsb87QT+MnJf/T3cuEqdTIoSk74BfNEAdMohQARAQAB iQEfBBgBCAAJBQJn/xtCAhsMAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvyvIH/26zytSVNDaxtprg7XtX LerIWf9RyVx8omCw/lXKRCcgkfwD7QR+nSZ0thWOGMpcnivjuReeVRkz/webUF47 BXJ/Tge07nrxdtyTIHBbp35fPIriaKaII6YWc2Ufdxwv+cD8PADS6gQWAlgrWLmn VmYtyHs4kwtiPZyUyuBdWnZal2GyYY0WVwYjvbk95eInwOaIdoTjesJ7ZhUFu155 r4hh9GlvM0uv8WJ5Mw9wvHa5fIM205I5g0IWC7yvTwwwKHlV4JQQOqMwfv569OEl 1GKqA12nSVziB1+UV+I0NqOABWi/MOi+IySPzYP+XgdPfRNx4vmoHYZwWOQ3t4Jd TEM= =oj6y -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --=_48e9e401147d0090ba1f021b545f1d4a-- From nobody Mon Dec 8 17:17:21 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQ7vm1bS3z6K5v2 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 17:17:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from philip@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQ7vm0ypNz3R92; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 17:17:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from philip@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765214244; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=LNkE+X8LzzIPmv1IkM3zbC/tF35VMolDLp7lJJRAONc=; b=jrOX+ksxT+UILHRnjQHstckwGUYyiiyGpwzyfBNqBzCqfD6IQvJeITGuapEhQrP19eL62X qgJlziMB1Nti74EeCEffNKA/fuLHeGGk/+fsXkZfZDrLs1Ioc8ABDgmCp5Gaz3Hg/kLoRU N3BBCLL3CkS2JGTCledPQx4jXQmwKL4JOmDy66cmKlcLUMaT+h8RGl8Ur9RfBk7XvzE9pQ PHZC95pphbaTrOKvF3xITa9VXOAH3sMRLkjr9ecoKqU26ynEWCDDuUuH4ZcTEppHZssof5 vaDCFmxdMGxqtQWCQbXjS6xsCzaF9e7iGLdN9tv7+Ka9K62bjSeZ7Vf4BLYmxQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765214244; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=LNkE+X8LzzIPmv1IkM3zbC/tF35VMolDLp7lJJRAONc=; b=aGvrogDFI2h8drc2kXEti+gqZJIFlGsykUfQ7DeOiceSku2fJPO6y8uTU7FUrx0vwZTLfC 7FaU4HyrFRy55j/taPh7K6uTXHVRsNa2GGFTm9GFkZG0E7rUqdQC5IAs+ow7vt9MYaOMH1 /BGjvz1dUdMVbzIxsBBKvSuBqTG9i5UJD37Dioi4AdCl929BThSywsH4BLY8ceWobTCEZ3 FU+4lYJQ9UKLCIz1g6kJxHh/y1joJY7dgomrIKTfheM1JdyYW8oixyMptx3dbwS+sN7ggW BQi3IsRBvuuwJDpmUtNSzlfGdOcQpNnm44OMy+EErS+69nDDcBBNtsYUBHs7hw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1765214244; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ZdXrubJGemBat5KOY3yNfZOTtGiT72vDtH9c/07LB5juTn49ViXTmgSa4M0aNW3+YPqEpP O+507TktYGtY1iaoij33xysfLe+s1nZ6RmLTIbisbpnCRQ4/VwblNH0o5QSXc0/X2jTkC5 FMhlOjiSFVU3Qv4Ng6SSHd/oc9yoQjY1rv9GsVM6bO2NJjx3oLfd35ctowILym6xHpVhEZ LKjO5vgfHgvRgYaJqKtnk/Impt5pHbTn6e++mz8GXzawDD3awx8mjJLst/Y0IKcxAepZp3 LnoFlvE7arw4du2KmeZoUp9YWlfVYXwRbAwqpxDzM731+vUv8utOKAWtilUmWg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from fauth-a1-smtp.messagingengine.com (fauth-a1-smtp.messagingengine.com [103.168.172.200]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: philip/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4dQ7vm01TNz18Wk; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 17:17:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from philip@freebsd.org) Received: from phl-compute-04.internal (phl-compute-04.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailfauth.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF45F40082; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 12:17:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-01 ([10.202.2.162]) by phl-compute-04.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 08 Dec 2025 12:17:23 -0500 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefgedrtddtgddujedviecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegr ihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjug hrpefhvfevufffoffkjghfgggtgfesthhqmhdtredttdenucfhrhhomheprfhhihhlihhp ucfrrggvphhsuceophhhihhlihhpsehfrhgvvggsshgurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtth gvrhhnpeejudekfffgffekjeffgfefgfeltdehhfffgeegveegveehvdehgedtuddvteek ieenucffohhmrghinhepfhhrvggvsghsugdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpe dtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehphhhilhhiphdomhgvshhmthhprghuthhh phgvrhhsohhnrghlihhthidqudduieeivdeivdegkedqvdefhedukedttdekqdhphhhilh hipheppehfrhgvvggsshgurdhorhhgsehtrhhouhgslhgvrdhishdpnhgspghrtghpthht ohephedpmhhouggvpehsmhhtphhouhhtpdhrtghpthhtohepmhgrvhesfhhrvggvsghsug drohhrghdprhgtphhtthhopehtshgthhifvghikhhlvgesghhmrghilhdrtghomhdprhgt phhtthhopegsshguqdhlihhsthhssegsshgufhhorhhgvgdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhope hfrhgvvggsshguqdgtuhhrrhgvnhhtsehfrhgvvggsshgurdhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtohep tghluhhsthgvrhgrughmsehfrhgvvggsshgurdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: ia691475d:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 12:17:22 -0500 (EST) From: Philip Paeps To: Alexander Motin Cc: Thomas Schweikle , Chris , freebsd-current , FreeBSD Cluster Administrators Subject: Re: What happened to 16? Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2025 18:17:21 +0100 X-Mailer: MailMate (2.0r6290) Message-ID: <4E256105-C65E-4DFA-9FE5-73AC3CB85E3E@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: References: <7a177da4388cde549e152e0ac8d13ab1@bsdforge.com> <213a7c6a4a63025645dd148d12fed016@bsdforge.com> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2025-12-08 17:58:02 (+0100), Alexander Motin wrote: > GitHub's ZFS CI also went unhappy: > Loading = > https://download.freebsd.org/snapshots/CI-IMAGES/16.0-CURRENT/amd64/Lat= est/FreeBSD-16.0-CURRENT-amd64-BASIC-CI-ufs.raw.xz = > ... > ERROR 404: Not Found. > > Looking myself, I don't see the "Latest" directory in the "amd64". > > % host download.freebsd.org > download.freebsd.org is an alias for download.geo.freebsd.org. > download.geo.freebsd.org has address 163.237.194.52 > download.geo.freebsd.org has IPv6 address 2001:4978:1000:1395::15:1 > download.geo.freebsd.org mail is handled by 0 . Looks like the fastly cache is serving this but the real mirrors are = not. (It occurs to me that we have no way for Syncthing to tell fastly to = purge when things are deleted from ftp-master.) Philip From nobody Mon Dec 8 17:23:52 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQ83h6lzHz6K6nb for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 17:24:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic304-24.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic304-24.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.68.205]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQ83h0sF3z3VT3 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 17:24:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1765214648; bh=lPealiPBkLjt8EHdOhvIjcoaoF0AKPKc8g1Z9mCOeVs=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=SnlYkznLoZve/+IS+qHicl6Z5eM0NaCdwSAFbkLVSmKVMNT/RzeqFtsNTDFN/gIse82wwYFEzJY5hNjzio1pa0X96mtfeeKu6RG05sQd/N9Xd7MdTTE2sENj/JGLnptd+YLqg8rQN5X7H7/yyXBqfWqqoc4YQEibGpipAFYaL8YMg8nl3Peg21xpI77xU+gejmBeuG+2Q1j3W10sXB8RVWrERSg6DljDkyUF2CTxBpaLNi6SeGFNViADwZbC1QAQSRpV6WlrouRyKd+GAPvzBDfurhnFoZxc9zs3d9jjkwg7QFv2Er2XO1RB82qi7R77mKFZLi946+Cxh7gwlGzE7A== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1765214648; bh=MYPOt5EhaTfgNXabpMJYWSV6jr3piib732jMztYyu45=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Subject:From:Date:To:From:Subject; b=Ma78tckNNzJamduI6XG5uxD1/eoeDiquscdp4H4ag3DlD+NnOtTm/s0Dv+9uj3+wSbF3RnA8jIlxHvOwXR1iVm/tiZo6vnlGzxb1gZNg0F7Y/j/T6PMtdTtMR15tUNtCtKl5s9gUWdSMR6FBK+8nxA7XErHibbggSJUPiB1yRMYkvsu+LzW0b/fVgDFLluOtK5grzgwzQBank8v1ueEpwZWnBkmevMJtnpP+NctBpVCV1FVWYRBq/sdl0828V25KADRAYlpHj1TEJne7lxxlbASBGuAzZuvpUDtdHNMpFaoo6Tl46k7YsRRCHRYLnuZ5NqHTmCL0o1Xbs+W43/UJ8w== X-YMail-OSG: 93wXGVEVM1nEPLFL9PAvT4DhPU9wz07ei8PGPUB1oga6nNltT0LBDKLONBUkRWF n6YZmKEfcj3T1CQTFaCREa7e4OoGoioRJIQSeqLlT3fy._n1PNn.2zVFV1i0.2_4ChPifoNZfYHk x8W2VO_qv33moPZzqKuZzZF1mJNulKQp0R4A_fCLCOg6389bCUiYVvNTc80Lk3eoV7_FLOyUOv.m eDyYPTFzrbQkhFZ1w1pn5LbTwdn8EuE3HY8VyjuouUuLrOr1y.._p3MSGIeiFd5fxh.pF5d8akkS dRf8oc5cE8ovmT59Pjh934s_TqSxEwiO8l8tUOn4ad7_MQzpSGNMQ5kGngzvhy6HC1vXlQgtJvev F4FC5OKD0TwYVedyDXjZAzrIsaXEmpKU.W7uzBHfB94eSoxTJsaKJEXiQ5xweLX7F.AarhKcDoF9 fD5Q_uUdZn5C5MeycHP0i9MAPxTbL86siMwfAzyBv.4HHalqGpJomBbNTrkNyZQKf.dXfkoQkCjJ eze0di2S.6BA4WKIC7WZCAxd43XkbKKy0HgVJ__88VET_BRIsGUopZsNbYbnR8YHMkybfMwEaE3w xh1.lqTLeDLL91AnhRVEnn2PLQPgyQ.u0bs3VpZfd1I_4JV.84904a.9E3w3rxmHfGkVixw9PL.g 3f_2ENiysoSYNNU8RDb.z4a8tiOMcpoF7EjE__slzFRIKd0Q2y5oEt4b_MWYAka21D.6L4GcLlKz Pc6lDRtzkPpXZzmWw.10M8660ZMFjIXaVM4sMWSqYA3p5Yd3tvHfuqlfEU_Ip8TW_7vBJLheEXTw iXmwIJcWUBjrivCIQqgvSgm.JppoQtsTnW2zmNNNQa8ZJHetH8nJB2HK_FdFPBMjzadHNDskmYu7 DJovScdI2uRC9rI53M089C0HkFAxJBM2a0g8AFWS.YkgrsgXmZfDQu7EBJMcLL2CoxESumtRYFOY A_8mL70HjpqOgPu1z2KOrtGCsJLz01Mg8bP2ZiNEfKPYlom6flMysa57055jNmlFJ668HzaoeBpW eE2dIya1m7qu4TmxHT5AYkRS1BUwnwTU4DCpxVr3WHdmI_QCbjokldrEjh78hYIKbaqyTSjudHZg A7Ty.qvVKWMwGQa9zKJZPVk81OYkIoN6HaSUBJwQFR47UUprJnegbmdEMvVfQ5POK8vu1w5CwwQW aMDALtYNBFZ3mf66TeOQgBIlFQI7k.DFFFVTspsOMpc__tKMxr8YWlSyAENgDfNQg.IRVQxMVGmK gyombB_JRtBMXulD5uvXqXbghJCazzjTg8n3huHBN.si0b.uDGa4POH8lOUO_A5ooatCzYSBH2Ju E6sV9UdeIVW4rSWE8YG5QSksrbIvlEfGi4AJIX9rAWIxHfpp8JK.f0yTcll782pwLJgCR54qob25 HkvnmqwlQLDsizaWc0kmSBqScjXLbll.HU7UJe8NjHNQqd_JoxxkYOllhss7U5CQn_HdLztePBkb cgmIIBMjSCbSjSFnjQUdEoQ8fMNijssrNDOKPU0aanMvbntyAmstF_9au5ppvd68QecvoiYhrGqu nb2feL02ATtgk1m.qSHTQFDrOa5dksuQRnP2gpa7b8mZ7BQtsxwu7gyYWXs8fv3b8IrzFaPvIyAN r1JzrrDUNFOTAj0iYEgfG1QxSfJmv13dBJ9bXmjMLGWpZUGaAfBqj0LrhKzKIKNZDIVnDPDVVtBH Se8eVHDYSSb59Z5QNTmq2baxUJmG7PLnzc5gg3nDL61yaB3clKfTF2lrXhHQyD1z9kaRDplnU1ar BSTbuDxqmEu1Ou1d2vPgL1jBrzEldZKKFDlipf1BiThGZ58pCvTu0wu5TJxjhjoFuUm2mISVE_Xp k8k15Qir.Lk8CD4_oSu40I8jpbtEScRPXElCfjPgFN7JwO5lPQDJdt.Fa9E1XDGcGWJVBBxbJ.nc WrjeBYN5WyS78EvXoua7c9ok77IVOEch_lJVAiwm_XuraUjfixF6sPG1X23CEJ9EOJfRBmk.nUOD _sF0h.cbDh4ZSeFWqGrkmi35YBW7Vl9IlVNhBDbeSnj8utuP1LPDO.qBfIFhQ1rjCapJ5lrTUHf8 KN.HJIEdtQO02J9b6SML5m4UEPh351MgpQwJO4pGXxYzz1zBYXrtbpM0QlGlG4iUliB_Kxg32s_w a.S4vyqVRbMshrSTfKhdXf3p8ao_hXUcN28cCUnX1xxZwXHd5kPnjFAipr8ZSV9w7AOApAvy3UJm y.x9QmHiWCQb_VY3n7X7uBpfwcv2.E2IVtC4GtABh_eWQE_P3tXTFGZXS4UJU014TRCx2P88bHCg cyZQ- X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: bcffc6d8-6d00-4b09-8c8d-82cad06aa4ef Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 17:24:08 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-gq1-54bf57fc64-7shwr (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID f10c66e0566dec195f4c90d181ab9d13; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 17:24:03 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 [The Microsoft Dev Kit 2023 buildworld took about 6 minutes less time for jemalloc 5.3.0, not more, for non-debug contexts] From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 09:23:52 -0800 Cc: Warner Losh , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , Konstantin Belousov Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <33F5F7DE-8DFA-47E2-A890-E07564825D05@yahoo.com> References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <19A848A6-0042-4873-B70D-AD6805225B92@yahoo.com> <902C948B-0A4C-48E1-8C6C-1BC7A15209D7@yahoo.com> To: Mateusz Guzik X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQ83h0sF3z3VT3 On Dec 8, 2025, at 04:46, Mateusz Guzik wrote: > On Sun, Dec 7, 2025 at 5:19=E2=80=AFPM Mark Millard = wrote: >>=20 >> On Dec 6, 2025, at 19:03, Mark Millard wrote: >>=20 >>> On Dec 6, 2025, at 14:25, Warner Losh wrote: >>>=20 >>>> On Sat, Dec 6, 2025, 3:06=E2=80=AFPM Mark Millard = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> On Dec 6, 2025, at 06:14, Mark Millard wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Mateusz Guzik wrote on >>>>>> Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2025 10:50:08 UTC : >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I got pointed at phoronix: = https://www.phoronix.com/review/freebsd-15-amd-epyc >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> While I don't treat their results as gospel, a FreeBSD vs = FreeBSD test >>>>>>> showing a slowdown most definitely warrants a closer look. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> They observed slowdowns when using iperf over localhost and when = compiling llvm. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I can confirm both problems and more. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I found the profiling tooling for userspace to be broken again = so I >>>>>>> did not investigate much and I'm not going to dig into it = further. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Test box is AMD EPYC 9454 48-Core Processor, with the 2 systems >>>>>>> running as 8 core vms under kvm. >>>>>>> . . . >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Both of the below are from ampere3 (aarch64) instead, its >>>>>> 2 most recent "bulk -a" runs that completed, elapsed times >>>>>> shown for qt6-webengine-6.9.3 builds: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> 150releng-arm64-quarterly qt6-webengine-6.9.3 53:33:46 >>>>>> 135arm64-default qt6-webengine-6.9.3 38:43:36 A somewhat better comparison is now available from the active builds, here quarterly 14.3 to match with the quarterly 15.0 . . . = https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/ampere1/data/143arm64-quarterly/1081574d367= d/logs/qt6-webengine-6.9.3.log shows 14.3 quarterly getting the qt6-webengine-6.9.3 build timing: 38:25:51 on ampere1 with: Host OSVERSION: 1600004 Jail OSVERSION: 1403000 15.0 is definitely the large one. As far as I know ampere1 and ampere3 match for there hardware = configurations. (Not that such information is public so I do not have great evidence.) Given the similarity to 135arm64-default, I will generally not switch to referencing 14.3's timing below, leaving that implicit. >>>>>> For reference: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Host OSVERSION: 1600000 >>>>>> Jail OSVERSION: 1500068 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> vs. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Host OSVERSION: 1600000 >>>>>> Jail OSVERSION: 1305000 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> The difference for the above is in the Jail's world builds, >>>>>> not in the boot's (kernel+world) builds. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> For reference: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> = https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/ampere3/build.html?mastername=3D150releng-a= rm64-quarterly&build=3D88084f9163ae >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> build of www/qt6-webengine | qt6-webengine-6.9.3 ended at Sun Nov = 30 05:40:02 -00 2025 >>>>>> build time: 2D:05:33:52 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> = https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/ampere3/build.html?mastername=3D135arm64-de= fault&build=3Df5384fe59be6 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> build of www/qt6-webengine | qt6-webengine-6.9.3 ended at Sat Nov = 22 15:33:34 -00 2025 >>>>>> build time: 1D:14:43:41 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Expanding the notes to before and after jemalloc 5.3.0 >>>>> was merged to main: beefy18 was the main-amd64 builder >>>>> before and somewhat after the jemalloc 5.3.0 merge from >>>>> vendor branch: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Before: p2650762431ca_s51affb7e971 261:29:13 building 36074 = port-packages, start 05 Aug 2025 01:10:59 GMT >>>>> ( jemalloc 5.3.0 merge from = vendor branch: 15 Aug 2025) >>>>> After : p9652f95ce8e4_sb45a181a74c 428:49:20 building 36318 = port-packages, start 19 Aug 2025 01:30:33 GMT >>>>>=20 >>>>> (The log files are long gone for port-packages built.) >>>>>=20 >>>>> main-15 used a debug jail world but 15.0-RELEASE does not. >>>>>=20 >>>>> I'm not aware of such a port-package builder context for a >>>>> non-debug jail world before and after a jemalloc 5.3.0 merge. >>>>>=20 >>>> A few months before I landed the jemalloc patches, i did 4 or 5 = from dirt buildworlds. The elasped time was, iirc, with 1 or 2%. Enough = to see maybe a diff with the small sample size, but not enough for = ministat to trigger at 95%. I didn't recall keeping the data for this = and can't find it now. And I'm not even sure, in hindsight, I ran a good = experiment. It might be related, or not, but it would be easy enough for = someone to setup a two jails: one just before and one just after. Build = from scratch the world (same hash) on both. That would test it since = you'd be holding all other variables constant. >>>>=20 >>>> When we imported the tip of FreeBSD main at work, we didn't get a = cpu change trigger from our tests that I recall... >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The range of commits look like: >>>=20 >>> =E2=80=A2 git: 9a7c512a6149 - main - ucred groups: restore a = useful comment Eric van Gyzen >>> =E2=80=A2 git: bf6039f09a30 - main - jemalloc: Unthin = contrib/jemalloc Warner Losh >>> =E2=80=A2 git: a0dfba697132 - main - jemalloc: Update = jemalloc.xml.in per FreeBSD-diffs Warner Losh >>> =E2=80=A2 git: 718b13ba6c5d - main - jemalloc: Add FreeBSD's = updates to jemalloc_preamble.h.in Warner Losh >>> =E2=80=A2 git: 6371645df7b0 - main - jemalloc: Add = JEMALLOC_PRIVATE_NAMESPACE for the libc namespace Warner Losh >>> =E2=80=A2 git: da260ab23f26 - main - jemalloc: Only replace = _pthread_mutex_init_calloc_cb in private namespace Warner Losh >>> =E2=80=A2 git: c43cad871720 - main - jemalloc: Merge from jemalloc = 5.3.0 vendor branch Warner Losh >>> =E2=80=A2 git: 69af14a57c9e - main - jemalloc: Note update in = UPDATING and RELNOTES Warner Losh >>>=20 >>> I've started a build of a non-debug 9a7c512a6149 world >>> to later create a chroot to do a test buildworld in. >>>=20 >>> I'll also do a build of a non-debug 69af14a57c9e world >>> to later create the other chroot to do a test >>> buildworld in. >>>=20 >>> non-debug means my use of: >>>=20 >>> WITH_MALLOC_PRODUCTION=3D >>> WITHOUT_ASSERT_DEBUG=3D >>> WITHOUT_PTHREADS_ASSERTIONS=3D >>> WITHOUT_LLVM_ASSERTIONS=3D >>>=20 >>> I've used "env WITH_META_MODE=3D" as it cuts down on the >>> volume and frequency of scrolling output. I'll do the >>> same later. >>>=20 >>> If there is anything you want controlled in a different >>> way, let me know. >>>=20 >>> The Windows Dev Kit 2023 is booted (world and kernel) >>> with: >>>=20 >>> # uname -apKU >>> FreeBSD aarch64-main-pbase 16.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT = main-n281922-4872b48b175c GENERIC-NODEBUG arm64 aarch64 1600004 1600004 >>>=20 >>> which is from an official pkgbase distribution. So the >>> boot-world is a debug world but the boot-kernel is not. >>>=20 >>> The Windows Dev Kit 2023 will take some time for such >>> -j8 builds and I may end up sleeping in the middle of >>> the sequence someplace. So it may be a while before >>> I've any comparison/contrast data to report. >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Summary for jemalloc for before vs. at 5.3.0 >> for *non-debug* contexts doing the buildworld : >>=20 >> before 5.3.0: 9754 seconds (about 2.7 hrs) >> with 5.3.0: 9384 seconds (about 2.6 hrs) >>=20 >=20 > While in principle this can accurately reflect the difference, the > benchmark itself is not valid as is. I remind of what started this for my specific messages: On ampere3 : 150releng-arm64-quarterly qt6-webengine-6.9.3 53:33:46 135arm64-default qt6-webengine-6.9.3 38:43:36 A fairly large scale multiplication factor. The test was a cross check on that, at least that is how I interpreted Warner's request and was my purpose in agreeing to do the test. I tried to do what Warner asked. It adds a little data to what he reported. I do not view the result as indicating much more than the two builds are approximately equal for the time taken. I have no reason to care if the timings swapped, for example: same conclusion for the comparison I was making. It would be highly unlikely repeated tests to have variability reach anywhere near the qt6-webengine-6.9.3 scale factor difference. > First, you can't just run it once -- the result needs to be proven > repeatable and profiled.For a build of a that duration, for this few > resources,=20 For comparison to: 150releng-arm64-quarterly qt6-webengine-6.9.3 53:33:46 135arm64-default qt6-webengine-6.9.3 38:43:36 and that size of scale factor, I'd say, yes I can, given the near equality that I got. It is eveidence that the type of test has missed being relevant, other than showing no such systematic scale factor for the type of test. FYI: 32 GiBytes of RAM. 8 cores that are compatible with Cortex-A76 targeting, 4 are X1C and 4 are A78C. USB3 in use, with a U.2 1.4 TB Optane as media, via an adapter. UFS file system. > for all I know the real factor was randomness from I/O. Not for a change of scale to instead be similar to: 53:33:46 vs. 38:43:36 for building qt6-webengine-6.9.3 as far as I can see. > That aside you need a sanitized baseline. =46rom the description it = not > clear to me at all if you are doing the build with the clang perf > regression fixed or not. My result indicate, in part, that it is not a good way to investigate the 53:33:46 vs. 38:43:36 for building qt6-webengine-6.9.3 . I doubt I need a better baseline for that judgment now. I'd need a different type of test activity. > Even that aside, I outlined 3 more regressions: > - slower binary startup to begin with > - slower syscalls which fail with an error > - slower syscall interface in the first place >=20 > Out of the the first one is most important here. Do you expect any combination of those to be a significant part of the scale factor difference for 53:33:46 vs. 38:43:36 for building qt6-webengine-6.9.3 ? > If I was to work on this, I would not claim that we are targeting the same issue, even with Warner's request considered that added what he was targetting. > seeing that the question at hand is whether > the jemalloc update is a problem, I think the specifics of the qt6-webengine-6.9.3 building would need to be the investigative context for what was "at hand" for me. In part that judgement is based on the test I did finding near equality for jemalloc . > I would bypass all of the above and > instead take 14.3 (not stable/14!) as a baseline + jemalloc update on > top. This eliminates all of the factors other than jemalloc itself. I'll note that ampere1 with a 14.3 jail took 38:25:51 for its build of qt6-webengine-6.9.3 . That scale of timing is not specific to 13.5 jail worlds. > building world also seems a little fishy here and it is not clear to > me at all what version have you built The 9xxx sec timings were both building: 69af14a57c9e - main - jemalloc: Note update in UPDATING and RELNOTES = Warner Los (the end of the jemalloc commit sequence). One build was 69af14a57c9e in a chroot rebuilding itself. The other built 69af14a57c9e via: 9a7c512a6149 - main - ucred groups: restore a useful comment Eric van = Gyzen (the just before jemalloc 5.3.0 related commits started) The 2 chroots differ just by which jemalloc version was in use. > -- was the new jemalloc thing > building new jemalloc and old jemalloc building old jemalloc? More > imporantly I would be worried some of the build picks up whatever > jemalloc it finds to use during some of the build. >=20 > I would benchmark this by building a big port (not timing dependencies > of the port, just the port itself -- maybe even chromium or firefox). Using qt6-webengine-6.9.3 would mean using a known to have an issue context, at least for aarch64. But I can not take weeks of time for such an activity. amd64 is messier to compare official builds for because of lack of uniformity across the builder machines and each type of build being done on its own builder machine: no examples of same machine builds both. > That's of course quite a bit of effort and if there is nobody to do > that (or compatible), imo the pragmatic play is to revert the jemalloc > update for the time being. This restores the known working state and > should the update be a good thing it can land for 15.1, maybe fixed > up. 150releng-arm64-quarterly on ampere3: llvm21-21.1.2 : 21:26:14 143arm64-quarterly on ampere1: llvm21-21.1.2 : 15:24:24 Again a notable time ratio. (default/latest would not be a llvm version match.) Some basic looking around does not suggest to me that qt6-webengine-6.9.3 is somehow unique for having notable timing ratios for quarterly on an ampere* . But, as of yet, I've no good evidence for blaming jemalloc as a major contributor to those timing ratios --or for blaming any other specific part of 15.0 . =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Mon Dec 8 19:02:04 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQBDx2HkRz6KCmF for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 19:02:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic303-25.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic303-25.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.64.206]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQBDw5M5nz3kf5 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 19:02:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b=GDILbVYJ; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.64.206 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1765220537; bh=OFUuu0X+3rP4QtZYUTJ/zBZB23w3rS1g807X6HzKmHo=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=GDILbVYJy8ZyaplA21zZZQQFG5w6MbT2SFp2YTbrnzVzFNKhqjsEHd78KXZYckQnWkRJWzJBXuxs1rKQ65KTCcybdx8p3cgGJ/DmAdLJzAFlyWXJtx2+aiitgvywgfJymZaFjFDutSl6QK13Svp9Ar3IaxZ2V3z/lR5GSjgSOWyG39RSiHNIMY/fGniebkX6oxG1WvAOZzNdBFAeg3oThqNZN2mK8snHT6gwOqYwsrnMHLz69rUArDa+Y8CGKr/SCCcatreoADRaME8cK7USk0ibVj5nSRFdX0qecVwjTKDcinORJeyOedBDrQ41fEjPDytYAfP4LEz1P4WGA9KvuA== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1765220537; bh=QmoXuKHuMjPNWUDjW2r/iJhpVyekZxuWjl/u6qYjkW3=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Subject:From:Date:To:From:Subject; b=khmN27QdUZIV/yV0VG13ZDw+3dGGb8jAb6R5ZEUcXD/cZGlIxiy8sX8a6IYjFCEigxqWGlBIYLVbTBgSfxIcpHra+aAMjqXuLK7ObaFLLOETm/Y1qnt8/Jrb/yg1aFA2oRZkMptrGMWdqsWOfH3BaJgnxLzsg4GAo8D07dYK61infhEChtwkryoXqUC9rkITmHlsPuflcaUKygHs5q7MV4JEwd8C/qNzFdfzIyhT5ZQ3Z7Fwlmnx7i/WKAUx662jPC4o2+PbB6lFjApbebhRGlb4j2aGv5u2/4j/RSYF27t0V+Jlu6GM+lFNa5uG9UtVyHcwYzAvl1H1qvhH+voRKA== X-YMail-OSG: U2_i4ZQVM1lu3zDUu3c5_jiA9_oFXMkEdI9QMvHH8Vy_Wfxiiq1EnUeR41OF8PE FgDAIIMt53_jZl2NNr9d9KzclI8xeGoFTWHojLfwNIWtZqOj8kFIg_fGavn0u1LzZ_JuUJE_Ig3P nYBUidEW7Qfs96E66YeVR2u_j28FQoO1ca_Y7UkKe29BnUDQsiBAAUEOH.ozQOYlkHG5Zgj5dMKF aivkntZD8xuNnf3xBqgHhRHTUCc7.oW3UINrcS2CLH8qjYheEO9gAFf4mB3_ppI1lnuYAUkxkRCN LVYe09OhI9j4esy__sNB3ktj3pq_m6Ds43WgH4jmJ12fI9ZiAkugxxphvhIy1UL3T7WBiMV_V97n ff5lrQGuIV8qbAjba1oEA2yDA0hAzmJR8_NMD.IL2YVgALmQUHi62jreTFLOHWMuKvHwU3u6eQAY _ui8cmTD.ClKGUKjo0.S23fuhm3gb51go2Inr0Heu5kG6e4N3N..SQDuiSzhD5bYv9o51yuQHVmG zFfYAs2JplsAifNR80kViaLKuRFvzu_irRljUJwh26rP_3rzSJgxaDsXiXiA0RolKcmVYyr7vITq vnYZBxt2cPHzfH9BDi4L59AzLi3_2nKXOkZWwQjA9eYZP2.7yTZYhioN5P85gZdm6g.oyp4zno9W 8rIBZXxJWnrFr0TtNuBW7SvdteK66B6CE64H5LLCetQ0EHyrbMtNB9MTbAhV1UZ.qWPInQSTz4tx 63KeBWAAAK1A_PkmWd3DaxIkMnxYSqLoF07Nz7vAIsjWdXBOKbF5O2CewZK1dhGoFoXuSlo0WLMc EtgBD4TIh0pb53lmPEIk2Fg00qOX3GBzxJZSEuPASEkkNHu4SEyTUCybxxtDQ4rZ2Yh_qNPVst.N 19tt44N7v5aaVu0LoAXEKjJD3AoSJx.La0OX9_uPjfqAdwX.CAei3nBszJ0gMx4UmNQqFABUPS8M soAX33.wHzzQ3n5pFxDq2S9qjGlrPxXzGjGusSaJ0qNRIAZCbFLrNQPngpbYFeN8GlyyIzwtZPRM WKU96c2O99.ngrJFkX1LbmraGTwU8eZCzTVHbs1B39mEYMvNLGaf0Gdsdxie5zfp76Sjd7QHHVBG GH3a7ceULHYsUkBJNLzlsZeENgYQTbP8IhTgr.PIrw2JhuM91OC30QyZCVUBV6NDTHOY5_RzOGXh 3iE5KgnGpw3L6zDCkH7oDS7CfaCqvWsTKu_xRnqsQxG_hhqftFYJRrSlN4hA13un1hSJIS0gl5C6 nQysaZ79VL8Udw6kgyVVVE9FKZ5xCxas5ofuMOSXLjWxQe.nMJxdKPzB3bV66Cj8cZGGbxHxa3mw qk.o42.jY0gHqDEiKWA_RzRqoNDhI2svC_wtjG6luGaaDDBN69wOOUssJHT9skogZ4OnW2B0Adja Z0bSQSqVGMtiiVUEqdeyY8aYcL6ZP4dDLAn8asQ9JLo9kRkbcJVtbYnpiFqS3t0L.KJ9xOoqjhsW .Ft6JH_EMlJbYMRiwamjWWCzFjgflsIvV9QAZEd.ZRklh0fDYKMwY63gUoKWQClo6na0Y.NgUhRk wSAvkFA7C7hWCMnPypsPDAmtzROkC8llxQDQdTbyCWnaXCDz.O20GalF3o8K.WNZEWpMLGaCQeET D8r9J9iNNMUPwnM5JT64_p0LSaP7gxLv9BkWRgv4Zij.lkfqHR7yjJQHslEBe3ENLt7EC8QYu13q LJbXeXNn1Oa31gBtmsnUYoLaNzKv_ck6h6Zn1Mi0Vt6V4mIvbDYtqB6jUIsByXwpqS8lNPBxX9Rh Yl4E68H17stfyfsZhTdUhd0u3VDZERinNm.Tl0GSRHQtNcjLv.giLXUQIr39HX89E9PhRjAi3I.W 5v0_h0m8rxMMjNelBKX26vjNMDngNIXKZRf3b1dyynP9cxX9GRKby4ZfrX8Zp5NYiTBOKryYLAIT hS0oexNeTdO5Ch3zfvituC0pckyqv7l.Jit2ERAq48GJkwEo4yetm3olO6Uq5bUAzfHm8z8wDxUK qlN5j7DxQPk2xW3Ho9FdZc_a_hY7bsHcfS6xl1ZIokPxHKLCm1sE_1hbWAZyVvOlueyHscQMULR_ Y637H_hlI73qNB2yPoz_cmTSUBPh3cHFYKVV99avQF.pX13YGJKPlXgk4lhYNd_86h6CTcuVlOo9 pLtpf8CKCwbhdRUYpLCBQjsxrqBewplkgfZrI0piHZh_8ikVAtlr9b7s1fpvWdwkWe3ntiYGBSkN dtWHkYjPgmp.1lsXaXluwlhWpZPMRb1SHkgFi X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 41b08dfd-3097-4b7a-8185-67552c5ac4cc Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic303.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 19:02:17 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-gq1-54bf57fc64-v95fx (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 0deb05ddf805f74f8df79b365c97713d; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 19:02:15 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 [What should be the case for 15.0-RELEASE: WITH_ASSEERT_DEBUG or WITHOUT_ASSERT_DEBUG ?] From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <33F5F7DE-8DFA-47E2-A890-E07564825D05@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 11:02:04 -0800 Cc: FreeBSD Current Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <6A8AD343-01E3-42B0-9086-F3C598C33DBC@yahoo.com> References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <19A848A6-0042-4873-B70D-AD6805225B92@yahoo.com> <902C948B-0A4C-48E1-8C6C-1BC7A15209D7@yahoo.com> <33F5F7DE-8DFA-47E2-A890-E07564825D05@yahoo.com> To: Warner Losh , Konstantin Belousov , Mateusz Guzik , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.93 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.928]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[bsdimp.com,freebsd.org,gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.64.206:from]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.64.206:from]; APPLE_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQBDw5M5nz3kf5 https://cgit.freebsd.org/src/blame/share/mk/bsd.opts.mk?h=releng/15.0 shows: __DEFAULT_YES_OPTIONS = \ ASSERT_DEBUG \ . . . Looks like it has been that way going back into 2014. It suggests that care needs to have been taken to not have added any expensive asserts, likely including in contributed software, such as jemalloc updates and others? This is a difference with what I tested, by the way: WITH_MALLOC_PRODUCTION= WITHOUT_ASSERT_DEBUG= WITHOUT_PTHREADS_ASSERTIONS= WITHOUT_LLVM_ASSERTIONS= I have not tested how much of a difference it makes. For reference: WITHOUT_ASSERT_DEBUG Compile programs and libraries without the assert(3) checks. === Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Mon Dec 8 19:03:51 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQBGm2vTBz6KDb3 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 19:04:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ross@bisd.ro) Received: from ada.kiz.li (ada.kiz.li [38.45.72.165]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQBGl1Wfcz3mZS for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 19:03:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ross@bisd.ro) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=bisd.ro; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ross@bisd.ro designates 38.45.72.165 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ross@bisd.ro Received: from [10.3.0.30] (tulsa.kiz.li [205.209.235.143]) by ada.kiz.li (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id af98d7df (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO) for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:03:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <582e26f2-6390-4332-af18-7f2b47d706bf@bisd.ro> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 13:03:51 -0600 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: What happened to 16? To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <7a177da4388cde549e152e0ac8d13ab1@bsdforge.com> Content-Language: en-US From: "S. Ross Gohlke" In-Reply-To: <7a177da4388cde549e152e0ac8d13ab1@bsdforge.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.49 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.85)[-0.853]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.75)[-0.745]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.70)[0.703]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[bisd.ro,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQBGl1Wfcz3mZS On 12/8/25 01:37, Chris wrote: > I just got a new laptop and tried to boot 13.5,14 and 15 > but it hangs at the video -- something about loosing contact > with sc. So I went to get a copy of 16. But download.freebsd.org > doesn't know where it is. All the links to it from FreeBSD.org > return 404. > > So where is it? > > Thanks! :-) You can generate your own artifacts from pkgbase packages installed in an alternate root. Add the package repository configuration:     FreeBSD-base: {       url: "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/base_latest",       mirror_type: "srv",       signature_type: "fingerprints",       fingerprints: "/usr/share/keys/pkg",       enabled: yes     } To generate src.txz:     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/src install FreeBSD-set-src     # tar -acof /var/tmp/src.txz -C /mnt/src usr/src To generate base.txz:     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/base install FreeBSD-set-base     # mtree -deiU -f /etc/mtree/BSD.root.dist -p /mnt/base     # mtree -deiU -f /etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist -p /mnt/base/usr     # tar -acof /var/tmp/base.txz -C /mnt/base . The mtree commands may or may not be necessary, but in my case I expect /usr/obj to exist. If you want to pretend like this never happened, remove the package repository configuration and database ($PKG_DBDIR/repos/FreeBSD-base) once you have the artifacts. You will still have the packages, which you could exclude from your normal cache by setting PKG_CACHEDIR in the above pkg commands. From nobody Mon Dec 8 20:14:12 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQCr361dDz6KK2D for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 20:14:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (udns.ultimatedns.net [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R12" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQCr32g82z3syY for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 20:14:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 5B8KECCM065140; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 12:14:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=bsdforge.com; s=bsdforge; t=1765224861; x=1765225461; r=y; bh=bL76hZKIAW59l6EC/jq2qH3X8CcDsfOpwl8wUu7mWtw=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=pnPSk3dj89wdxScsPmorK4IzCgPNz8N7t5SLLgUfjmPc7J5/W+D2S+GKKbaLV82qh 1F3Ht4nhFJ/sFOoQJSDEuX1XFfxlvHz6SHnxuId90b9F3hhDM4oLnkrZDdPrhg1GNz 4/pHaCuxNTw/P5TFMfhI0IYdKWf3EdelJAiLC2Ti8rK4Otn9ttQSbOaoKbOaFSG79Q ZX6jw5Bwa88c5p/H4I5K8ExBbTHm8dN6wO9vu1ZOGDmGWXQ3oXRORk+WCCin7Fh+T8 YZRDmTocjOUwsVkz+UvCCBFhEmlGZzGwBTat61+eexemTXC10HmPY0J9VghLlMDZMP BbKgSkX/Tashw== List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2025 12:14:12 -0800 From: Chris To: "S. Ross Gohlke" Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What happened to 16? In-Reply-To: <582e26f2-6390-4332-af18-7f2b47d706bf@bisd.ro> References: <7a177da4388cde549e152e0ac8d13ab1@bsdforge.com> <582e26f2-6390-4332-af18-7f2b47d706bf@bisd.ro> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <59e250e2646cb653fbad867f8d9a1abc@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_f214536483b0a6ecaaad17d41fb4323e" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQCr32g82z3syY --=_f214536483b0a6ecaaad17d41fb4323e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 2025-12-08 11:03, S. Ross Gohlke wrote: > On 12/8/25 01:37, Chris wrote: >> I just got a new laptop and tried to boot 13.5,14 and 15 >> but it hangs at the video -- something about loosing contact >> with sc. So I went to get a copy of 16. But download.freebsd.org >> doesn't know where it is. All the links to it from FreeBSD.org >> return 404. >> >> So where is it? >> >> Thanks! :-) > You can generate your own artifacts from pkgbase packages installed in an > alternate root. > > Add the package repository configuration: > >     FreeBSD-base: { >       url: "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/base_latest", >       mirror_type: "srv", >       signature_type: "fingerprints", >       fingerprints: "/usr/share/keys/pkg", >       enabled: yes >     } > > To generate src.txz: > >     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/src install FreeBSD-set-src >     # tar -acof /var/tmp/src.txz -C /mnt/src usr/src > > To generate base.txz: > >     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/base install FreeBSD-set-base >     # mtree -deiU -f /etc/mtree/BSD.root.dist -p /mnt/base >     # mtree -deiU -f /etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist -p /mnt/base/usr >     # tar -acof /var/tmp/base.txz -C /mnt/base . > > The mtree commands may or may not be necessary, but in my case I expect > /usr/obj to exist. > > If you want to pretend like this never happened, remove the package > repository > configuration and database ($PKG_DBDIR/repos/FreeBSD-base) once you have the > artifacts. > > You will still have the packages, which you could exclude from your normal > cache > by setting PKG_CACHEDIR in the above pkg commands. REALLY appreciate all the insight on this and your taking the time to do this, Ross. Thanks! --Chris -- There is no such place as the internet --=_f214536483b0a6ecaaad17d41fb4323e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xE512722F.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xE512722F.asc; size=3074 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGf/G0IBCADARuJc6IcwOe3jv7dQsP1X/EIHvCFExPbTmlMNFMXbMMccQUnV o8ayEn+wmTvPhw7uL3PDk7DQs16W1sN2b8UMFc804cVWNGtoG3rA+Np+TFEYlXJx eh5Q42VHptkuwzHKl+q2utkpRlS7uHyfjsInQAoHxLyi/wrsaZTHHhDbLLhJ5Ez0 arohQ2Q1w0M5e9rW8Fy5rpC7RpC6uO1SZMxcbdqURI/BBqxbiD1iW62cDWFkfFX+ dtaEXghFV7BIBMDSrgIunGoEfdMZgXys7O6bPWn8z0cuOZIPj4HrjoCYARyQ+sdc rjz/k06SLM/UvEZDorJhT4DbYrwMNvaPWJiPABEBAAG0HkNocmlzIDxic2QtbGlz dHNAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBNQQQAQgAHwUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgEC GQECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci8bSwf/fK3QcTYXRMrv82HIp4SiGCSD7/bRmyWr ipv2vzknGFHxPBN4AEWIqF/U4j5oDXaodyU6xsy59Z47/lgbyzyZiVR6nmJVgZVf el/EgwnLt7ZuYGLLEhIN2pd9itJkB8PMPZrUHMWgIw8BxX5YFYGuyiNe9pGn0Coj 98t/v3fouhqksH+BpB4TBHJBBDSxSiMm66VTJX4Xcnpf0ZnQVP4GBuoyodnFBfdI wqftPLESsCC08lUhD2j7v2NRWwMi/q3ed8D6VCKPImBByYnBZL5gu56K5bwqaQfN itu06APuIYnG71qxgn1EPO63lovWP5NZGgOKvzs3K+JfPF79BiOUFbQjQ2hyaXMg PG1haWxvcEBocmNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zLm5ldD6JATEEEAEIABwFAmf/G0IGCwkH CAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvBH8H9RGwzZuU6+zvH1WjQa97 yWpEt9rC+BIBJThev2Cpls2LqBqIeIQVZPnyLAZWgFaiezL6+xbvcNt6OnfidIYa x8iRwCMC6/Bs8H2Wef9qfGxXi+jHPLYQk3juiZVmBhIK6FJZkzaW4wSiawofwzbp zqNxO8dZ0j4foaJZrNi8iqsvKjiiHoSFaJtumIThAeydI18CNLeFaS53sk5nad6I wCYeFKmJ/22dMP7DOFEgyG1iNYgY+AGREMkEsBiLpqYjJ5asK+1UdUy/TRly1hOt HHxCiX0Fh9ZYM2vLIj7sq4LKaMPGeYC3qTqBYugVeyz7LkiI2ft/BKveA5JxuYKk ZrQiQ2hyaXMgPG5hbm9nQGhyY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMubmV0PokBMgQQAQgAHAUC Z/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci+4Bwf8D0Ogk2/X ud/CsAgHozwzKPqfesL5SRWM14hLnU9/EHoplnZgNexbVY1wXIi2FYPo5cve9QxW Nmt3S3UTF9j2fGqv0wmeHv3EqogFUHnftLyWpbeTPOFDMIQp/BOD6ygfeXxXWxRT L6zvUkSrDtHvkQHPWGRxwP+ihWjpw9AQR/R4/qAuTAZZM0O7UnJEo4mWXatl+utF wegG2giwFTTxfF+1rMpFtUDjYCpRQ6ZmE+gC1mHUMoH7GJMQv12DbqwKrxtwGfd0 AJNO3ZDnxl24BmIfl1YqQGZQ5iIH7At4YItESbU45hoNNsG9oDrsil78EUCAtXHd UPScj+eXaeAkgrQfQ2hyaXMgPHBvcnRtYXN0ZXJAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBMgQQ AQgAHAUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci9o7Af+ Lwu5hJlI5HZNGwAll7QTIFZVW+y4OEg+amhxTDGbAAqlnSIkHC1KgkmIOOrThme3 kTFCqfIIsuP73yKxHq6kRG0zH5/7asAPNAUOfzD7B2o/gMyuTRKyG5r9f3UmACr4 6qvtFhIwROXr6+NNT2IKg3l0/8F58A0N/TR8D2PTHeo4x6jYcZQDCrCy7BAdk3cu V16k4z/1UzRa07b5McezbWL20cIaZ+dqNcCjKZpzPlTyTCGgrNNtaDpNVhoWUKMB YNcKql+tfC1IpX8l+IU6OBKcDKMkQojvO1QrZqY8MDJGo8jq/CtotQ8+IpAai3Bx dQEsxrxlcKTR4rUqvd8VGbkBDQRn/xtCAQgAv5Nv/aQN72xsLik+K73PJwpUmyhu vnI6stM6dSecylXVHjZ7C4n/m0eQEeQCl+9lByHR9N8H+WS3DtAd4pmciiIxRQLA JZiuaLYcy9ziy1h7130VoR7hhJHzo9FIhWkTGlCDX3egUZrYhMiwFUO8lNltLB8o TBvIrMSsnUzawtQjq/otv0Jf+oBPbG+gIYnAm7w6r86n/l+eVxf5eEoS7wV0DJfp b2jE5zWErWk8I/tq4e8T+1VQeVQR6wz+NrUCSxkPkpNAm19AFUHOk//yvMGWVlDW F6gr3ErN2a0w/kZ0lz3Msxsb87QT+MnJf/T3cuEqdTIoSk74BfNEAdMohQARAQAB iQEfBBgBCAAJBQJn/xtCAhsMAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvyvIH/26zytSVNDaxtprg7XtX LerIWf9RyVx8omCw/lXKRCcgkfwD7QR+nSZ0thWOGMpcnivjuReeVRkz/webUF47 BXJ/Tge07nrxdtyTIHBbp35fPIriaKaII6YWc2Ufdxwv+cD8PADS6gQWAlgrWLmn VmYtyHs4kwtiPZyUyuBdWnZal2GyYY0WVwYjvbk95eInwOaIdoTjesJ7ZhUFu155 r4hh9GlvM0uv8WJ5Mw9wvHa5fIM205I5g0IWC7yvTwwwKHlV4JQQOqMwfv569OEl 1GKqA12nSVziB1+UV+I0NqOABWi/MOi+IySPzYP+XgdPfRNx4vmoHYZwWOQ3t4Jd TEM= =oj6y -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --=_f214536483b0a6ecaaad17d41fb4323e-- From nobody Mon Dec 8 20:48:39 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQDbb6twwz6KMZC for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 20:48:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ross@bisd.ro) Received: from ada.kiz.li (ada.kiz.li [38.45.72.165]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQDbZ0FLqz3y9x for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 20:48:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ross@bisd.ro) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=bisd.ro; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ross@bisd.ro designates 38.45.72.165 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ross@bisd.ro Received: from [10.3.0.30] (tulsa.kiz.li [205.209.235.143]) by ada.kiz.li (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 7b9fd827 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO) for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 15:48:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <55e82588-68c7-4f11-a8ef-b7bbd4f3fb85@bisd.ro> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:48:39 -0600 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: What happened to 16? To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <7a177da4388cde549e152e0ac8d13ab1@bsdforge.com> <582e26f2-6390-4332-af18-7f2b47d706bf@bisd.ro> Content-Language: en-US From: "S. Ross Gohlke" In-Reply-To: <582e26f2-6390-4332-af18-7f2b47d706bf@bisd.ro> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.73 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.920]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.86)[-0.863]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.66)[0.655]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[bisd.ro,reject]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQDbZ0FLqz3y9x On 12/8/25 13:03, S. Ross Gohlke wrote: > > On 12/8/25 01:37, Chris wrote: >> I just got a new laptop and tried to boot 13.5,14 and 15 >> but it hangs at the video -- something about loosing contact >> with sc. So I went to get a copy of 16. But download.freebsd.org >> doesn't know where it is. All the links to it from FreeBSD.org >> return 404. >> >> So where is it? >> >> Thanks! :-) > You can generate your own artifacts from pkgbase packages installed in > an alternate root. > > Add the package repository configuration: > >     FreeBSD-base: { >       url: "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/base_latest", >       mirror_type: "srv", >       signature_type: "fingerprints", >       fingerprints: "/usr/share/keys/pkg", >       enabled: yes >     } > > To generate src.txz: > >     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/src install FreeBSD-set-src >     # tar -acof /var/tmp/src.txz -C /mnt/src usr/src > > To generate base.txz: > >     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/base install FreeBSD-set-base >     # mtree -deiU -f /etc/mtree/BSD.root.dist -p /mnt/base >     # mtree -deiU -f /etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist -p /mnt/base/usr >     # tar -acof /var/tmp/base.txz -C /mnt/base . > > The mtree commands may or may not be necessary, but in my case I > expect /usr/obj to exist. > > If you want to pretend like this never happened, remove the package > repository configuration and database ($PKG_DBDIR/repos/FreeBSD-base) > once you have the artifacts. On second thought, the local pkg database will still be "polluted". You probably want to delete the packages first.     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/src delete FreeBSD-set-src     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/src autoremove     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/base delete FreeBSD-set-base     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/base autoremove This might have consequences for your regular installation, so use with caution. Honestly, you want a dedicated PKG_DBDIR too, but that entails extra complications. > You will still have the packages, which you could exclude from your > normal cache by setting PKG_CACHEDIR in the above pkg commands. From nobody Mon Dec 8 22:39:45 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQH3r2dRLz6KV9m for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 22:39:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x62a.google.com (mail-ej1-x62a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQH3q6Y8Vz3MCB for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 22:39:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ej1-x62a.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b7370698a8eso686475566b.0 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 14:39:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765233589; x=1765838389; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=CufVC+DlTyE9F8iy9SedhUSTOy2UYxiHYJXoETU9ho8=; b=ckrJG84id0zwG2S8rCGjPvSLcOhyZvgHChRhjpz66qjNbwhdwHd7t9M0irExGhXefr 9UYHwzBJ11NX36d6K5HrK9ladI0Hir+czTloFBsF8qsb33an16tGLVTjImoRB25tr7lc DEWZo2k0jsE8UDnB2hJMES+7muTw1ldf8DTUz2YrKGI5myW+E978FBIDm32RSQGEhBKF MN3DBUMC7z2mcHsIfMJWZ4t2jIbqBnvZoKttL5BhawrnHqIfyIrMQ5f7E2KmGamvoil5 ILeJC8SoF2KF11ai5E+TLKWIYROAeRvE9vinNgOj5OehCW8mVJmCG8YAKUt18lSd8XgO Y07w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765233589; x=1765838389; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CufVC+DlTyE9F8iy9SedhUSTOy2UYxiHYJXoETU9ho8=; b=A/f5jaoUMZLEIU7gfhkm+lg3YJS4rUSPPpt9pqyZtrdvtKe7TRJxgs2O/4UTY8ycc2 QL9RjE/0OQV4spbQHPo/cp+AZSFQ6fPAitx8O59EzSV1QVYuckZetRhfwCNtZECKWPY4 E5261j+d9Suwcsd3wXepkXoUzl2L04Y/iTm4lWlGf+zlyIQ134xvOZ3wICj4CPGN1osr THCqIxkn48OqcfCpbJEkBNXtX+gRqBsFVEryR9stRpJJN4eCsOnvKIJ/Kxn7jdi8Irhq B2msoh/7po9/ReUBNJAS30Lsn1PuQSrwaPrmzLqggT0RxV6WVJjAMnEYDGbrkX9Ectq6 9MWw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWZq+8NsT/Tv12UEW5v8A8YxV3w3hvH21N1EzxNrJMsPR960YAk/Qk6BCgeAQGYE+hjMr7YX/3Mztq4poo91fk=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyBKi4UbQUPA1MHzqjsTWAINovMlNp13kPuj4MPawfwVrRRz7RF pxMmWWsEoT+vBozkr1G0nze3iySKgOXuJdFvPHBPxzqQXI3viTA2wBhyw2xxrA/Z X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncusCgk6OWIBPHeVhHrf7YxLkKOFWuacYddOG64ByFuC2JMY7omgVmw5HPfKkEi u0QWfOKjbqgLZ/De87POl7tAEiHV7JkqyCr31sEmZGzu0F6v22b9d2UJMr+z7COLyAupbmO5AbG /dHC9jmqCpj4DAergS8809mdrJsJT6ICqlAKKZBQa7FnbxxcakQDsPI0XLNCPvlSqGi/986BPpg 5uXXn8UAEqfqh06Eewa7JM5crUVljs17IlevqU5s60da3nYbuNr0KO5u6tzDEe+y35fsXViVXIk U47Dic/ZR+YqgALsrxWGEYhWVUTmDHN0qX04Tzz/wQeEvQv7mtQGBm/QTqJH7yZVGUFKyeD5PZq iG78evvF8W1wYQi/vDHAnznQf/k99Jlgwu8KNrVmCBqjQACgxKR5hhOa8dwSboHoFH/TS19rJaC Yru+uZ5Y8h1vCVwRaiveUfvYM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFIy2ItL/DPD7l3cUhhlBnAvyS4As6XPixwSCvYh54WGgLA8403YjlCiYmdZXQMsjDfrC0F5g== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:5c6:b0:b76:3548:b741 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b7a242c07a3mr982187566b.10.1765233588954; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 14:39:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rimwks.local ([2001:470:1f1b:4dc:191:8abc:4faf:ed26]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b79f49a4f35sm1199292866b.46.2025.12.08.14.39.46 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 08 Dec 2025 14:39:48 -0800 (PST) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:39:45 +0200 To: "Poul-Henning Kamp" Cc: Konstantin Belousov , Mateusz Guzik , Warner Losh , Mark Millard , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 Message-ID: <20251209003915.193ee38b@rimwks.local> In-Reply-To: <202512081147.5B8BlfDs027094@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <20251208035105.2313075d@rimwks.local> <202512080745.5B87jeIN025646@critter.freebsd.dk> <202512081147.5B8BlfDs027094@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.3.1 (GTK 3.24.51; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.3) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQH3q6Y8Vz3MCB On Mon, 08 Dec 2025 11:47:41 +0000 "Poul-Henning Kamp" wrote: > -------- > Konstantin Belousov writes: > > > On Mon, Dec 08, 2025 at 07:45:40AM +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > -------- > > > Konstantin Belousov writes: > > > > > > > JFYI, shared llvm libs are required for lot of things. The > > > > incomplete list of examples that I am aware of are dri drivers > > > > and ispc Intel compiler. > > > > > > But installing the shared libs for those other users, does not > > > mean we have to link the compiler itself against the shared lib ? > > > > > > > Sure, we do not have to. > > > > But there are other benefits from linking the libraries dynamically. > > E.g. the same (?) user shed crocodile tears over memory usage by > > 64bit system, and linking libllvm dynamically exactly reduces the > > memory profile by sharing significant part of text for cc, lld, and > > minor binutils. > > We can offer it as an builtime option, but unless some RAM factory or > other burns down, it should not be our default. > Option for ports: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=291500 From nobody Tue Dec 9 03:35:31 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQPdG2b8wz6JsLg for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 03:35:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (udns.ultimatedns.net [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R12" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQPdF6sWSz3q2M for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 03:35:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 5B93ZWVx077545; Mon, 8 Dec 2025 19:35:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=bsdforge.com; s=bsdforge; t=1765251340; x=1765251940; r=y; bh=m8gC3n/p0N5WaRj+8jIXlUa1EjE4lBINjslVT0Q6eLc=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=nhg2KHF8O5FBxWU7EpMHCH/mN11kBSt3lAr7FyYJCJOnQ98UkWtjcDsvqt0jHSvss tOSxtAVx4/vbOuNP8YJLXdzTtf04U/fPEWjhZSBsD1cTom63f3TXGZIIGo4sntb6cf rF9MJ3TliXjIdwaJMRctraGEPj8QHJ27iXn7WKNpJOIGWQJHWB5LNomxgBui1KtHjA 85MFnAOw4abGy46L57011AyGSWzgvvxG9zjGuMfko2S10NAfVEZAe9va3YUPkescfB YtNyH1OeTJuUptbPO6N6d3DEs/J3dq/uS0rBvz7gLGOJXexHkRnRncAiH25Zq123we EW/YeUv3p6Ipg== List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2025 19:35:31 -0800 From: Chris To: "S. Ross Gohlke" Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What happened to 16? In-Reply-To: <55e82588-68c7-4f11-a8ef-b7bbd4f3fb85@bisd.ro> References: <7a177da4388cde549e152e0ac8d13ab1@bsdforge.com> <582e26f2-6390-4332-af18-7f2b47d706bf@bisd.ro> <55e82588-68c7-4f11-a8ef-b7bbd4f3fb85@bisd.ro> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <7b1e8bdd05f4b2c46a7cc37ad267d148@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_48a5a9684c62ba25bbbe3928df7eb8a2" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQPdF6sWSz3q2M --=_48a5a9684c62ba25bbbe3928df7eb8a2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 2025-12-08 12:48, S. Ross Gohlke wrote: > On 12/8/25 13:03, S. Ross Gohlke wrote: >> >> On 12/8/25 01:37, Chris wrote: >>> I just got a new laptop and tried to boot 13.5,14 and 15 >>> but it hangs at the video -- something about loosing contact >>> with sc. So I went to get a copy of 16. But download.freebsd.org >>> doesn't know where it is. All the links to it from FreeBSD.org >>> return 404. >>> >>> So where is it? >>> >>> Thanks! :-) >> You can generate your own artifacts from pkgbase packages installed in an >> alternate root. >> >> Add the package repository configuration: >> >>     FreeBSD-base: { >>       url: "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/base_latest", >>       mirror_type: "srv", >>       signature_type: "fingerprints", >>       fingerprints: "/usr/share/keys/pkg", >>       enabled: yes >>     } >> >> To generate src.txz: >> >>     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/src install FreeBSD-set-src >>     # tar -acof /var/tmp/src.txz -C /mnt/src usr/src >> >> To generate base.txz: >> >>     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/base install FreeBSD-set-base >>     # mtree -deiU -f /etc/mtree/BSD.root.dist -p /mnt/base >>     # mtree -deiU -f /etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist -p /mnt/base/usr >>     # tar -acof /var/tmp/base.txz -C /mnt/base . >> >> The mtree commands may or may not be necessary, but in my case I expect >> /usr/obj to exist. >> >> If you want to pretend like this never happened, remove the package >> repository configuration and database ($PKG_DBDIR/repos/FreeBSD-base) once >> you have the artifacts. > > On second thought, the local pkg database will still be "polluted". True. Good call, and thanks again, Ross! So does anyone know when "CURRENT" images will hit the servers again? Thanks again! > You probably want to delete the packages first. > >     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/src delete FreeBSD-set-src > >     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/src autoremove > >     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/base delete FreeBSD-set-base > >     # env ABI=FreeBSD:16:amd64 pkg -r /mnt/base autoremove > > This might have consequences for your regular installation, so use with > caution. > > Honestly, you want a dedicated PKG_DBDIR too, but that entails extra > complications. > >> You will still have the packages, which you could exclude from your normal >> cache by setting PKG_CACHEDIR in the above pkg commands. --Chris -- There is no such place as the internet --=_48a5a9684c62ba25bbbe3928df7eb8a2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xE512722F.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xE512722F.asc; size=3074 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGf/G0IBCADARuJc6IcwOe3jv7dQsP1X/EIHvCFExPbTmlMNFMXbMMccQUnV o8ayEn+wmTvPhw7uL3PDk7DQs16W1sN2b8UMFc804cVWNGtoG3rA+Np+TFEYlXJx eh5Q42VHptkuwzHKl+q2utkpRlS7uHyfjsInQAoHxLyi/wrsaZTHHhDbLLhJ5Ez0 arohQ2Q1w0M5e9rW8Fy5rpC7RpC6uO1SZMxcbdqURI/BBqxbiD1iW62cDWFkfFX+ dtaEXghFV7BIBMDSrgIunGoEfdMZgXys7O6bPWn8z0cuOZIPj4HrjoCYARyQ+sdc rjz/k06SLM/UvEZDorJhT4DbYrwMNvaPWJiPABEBAAG0HkNocmlzIDxic2QtbGlz dHNAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBNQQQAQgAHwUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgEC GQECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci8bSwf/fK3QcTYXRMrv82HIp4SiGCSD7/bRmyWr ipv2vzknGFHxPBN4AEWIqF/U4j5oDXaodyU6xsy59Z47/lgbyzyZiVR6nmJVgZVf el/EgwnLt7ZuYGLLEhIN2pd9itJkB8PMPZrUHMWgIw8BxX5YFYGuyiNe9pGn0Coj 98t/v3fouhqksH+BpB4TBHJBBDSxSiMm66VTJX4Xcnpf0ZnQVP4GBuoyodnFBfdI wqftPLESsCC08lUhD2j7v2NRWwMi/q3ed8D6VCKPImBByYnBZL5gu56K5bwqaQfN itu06APuIYnG71qxgn1EPO63lovWP5NZGgOKvzs3K+JfPF79BiOUFbQjQ2hyaXMg PG1haWxvcEBocmNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zLm5ldD6JATEEEAEIABwFAmf/G0IGCwkH CAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvBH8H9RGwzZuU6+zvH1WjQa97 yWpEt9rC+BIBJThev2Cpls2LqBqIeIQVZPnyLAZWgFaiezL6+xbvcNt6OnfidIYa x8iRwCMC6/Bs8H2Wef9qfGxXi+jHPLYQk3juiZVmBhIK6FJZkzaW4wSiawofwzbp zqNxO8dZ0j4foaJZrNi8iqsvKjiiHoSFaJtumIThAeydI18CNLeFaS53sk5nad6I wCYeFKmJ/22dMP7DOFEgyG1iNYgY+AGREMkEsBiLpqYjJ5asK+1UdUy/TRly1hOt HHxCiX0Fh9ZYM2vLIj7sq4LKaMPGeYC3qTqBYugVeyz7LkiI2ft/BKveA5JxuYKk ZrQiQ2hyaXMgPG5hbm9nQGhyY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMubmV0PokBMgQQAQgAHAUC Z/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci+4Bwf8D0Ogk2/X ud/CsAgHozwzKPqfesL5SRWM14hLnU9/EHoplnZgNexbVY1wXIi2FYPo5cve9QxW Nmt3S3UTF9j2fGqv0wmeHv3EqogFUHnftLyWpbeTPOFDMIQp/BOD6ygfeXxXWxRT L6zvUkSrDtHvkQHPWGRxwP+ihWjpw9AQR/R4/qAuTAZZM0O7UnJEo4mWXatl+utF wegG2giwFTTxfF+1rMpFtUDjYCpRQ6ZmE+gC1mHUMoH7GJMQv12DbqwKrxtwGfd0 AJNO3ZDnxl24BmIfl1YqQGZQ5iIH7At4YItESbU45hoNNsG9oDrsil78EUCAtXHd UPScj+eXaeAkgrQfQ2hyaXMgPHBvcnRtYXN0ZXJAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBMgQQ AQgAHAUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci9o7Af+ Lwu5hJlI5HZNGwAll7QTIFZVW+y4OEg+amhxTDGbAAqlnSIkHC1KgkmIOOrThme3 kTFCqfIIsuP73yKxHq6kRG0zH5/7asAPNAUOfzD7B2o/gMyuTRKyG5r9f3UmACr4 6qvtFhIwROXr6+NNT2IKg3l0/8F58A0N/TR8D2PTHeo4x6jYcZQDCrCy7BAdk3cu V16k4z/1UzRa07b5McezbWL20cIaZ+dqNcCjKZpzPlTyTCGgrNNtaDpNVhoWUKMB YNcKql+tfC1IpX8l+IU6OBKcDKMkQojvO1QrZqY8MDJGo8jq/CtotQ8+IpAai3Bx dQEsxrxlcKTR4rUqvd8VGbkBDQRn/xtCAQgAv5Nv/aQN72xsLik+K73PJwpUmyhu vnI6stM6dSecylXVHjZ7C4n/m0eQEeQCl+9lByHR9N8H+WS3DtAd4pmciiIxRQLA JZiuaLYcy9ziy1h7130VoR7hhJHzo9FIhWkTGlCDX3egUZrYhMiwFUO8lNltLB8o TBvIrMSsnUzawtQjq/otv0Jf+oBPbG+gIYnAm7w6r86n/l+eVxf5eEoS7wV0DJfp b2jE5zWErWk8I/tq4e8T+1VQeVQR6wz+NrUCSxkPkpNAm19AFUHOk//yvMGWVlDW F6gr3ErN2a0w/kZ0lz3Msxsb87QT+MnJf/T3cuEqdTIoSk74BfNEAdMohQARAQAB iQEfBBgBCAAJBQJn/xtCAhsMAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvyvIH/26zytSVNDaxtprg7XtX LerIWf9RyVx8omCw/lXKRCcgkfwD7QR+nSZ0thWOGMpcnivjuReeVRkz/webUF47 BXJ/Tge07nrxdtyTIHBbp35fPIriaKaII6YWc2Ufdxwv+cD8PADS6gQWAlgrWLmn VmYtyHs4kwtiPZyUyuBdWnZal2GyYY0WVwYjvbk95eInwOaIdoTjesJ7ZhUFu155 r4hh9GlvM0uv8WJ5Mw9wvHa5fIM205I5g0IWC7yvTwwwKHlV4JQQOqMwfv569OEl 1GKqA12nSVziB1+UV+I0NqOABWi/MOi+IySPzYP+XgdPfRNx4vmoHYZwWOQ3t4Jd TEM= =oj6y -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --=_48a5a9684c62ba25bbbe3928df7eb8a2-- From nobody Tue Dec 9 04:13:59 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQQSH6JhNz6Jvrh for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 04:13:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gperciva@tarsnap.com) Received: from mail.tarsnap.com (mail.tarsnap.com [54.86.246.204]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4dQQSG14gkz3wMp for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 04:13:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gperciva@tarsnap.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=tarsnap.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of gperciva@tarsnap.com designates 54.86.246.204 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gperciva@tarsnap.com Received: (qmail 82345 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2025 04:13:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) (127.0.0.1) by mail.tarsnap.com with SMTP; 9 Dec 2025 04:13:01 -0000 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 20:13:59 -0800 From: Graham Percival To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-git-weekly@tarsnap.com Cc: Colin Percival Subject: FreeBSD Git Weekly 2025-12-01 to 2025-12-07 Message-ID: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.70 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.996]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[tarsnap.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:54.86.246.204/32]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14618, ipnet:54.86.0.0/16, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[54.86.246.204:from]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQQSG14gkz3wMp Hi all, I'm happy to announce FreeBSD git weekly for 2025-12-01 -- 2025-12-07: https://freebsd-git-weekly.tarsnap.net/2025-12-01.html It's a list of the 144 commits in that week, split into categories. No highlighted commits this week. To see all reports: https://freebsd-git-weekly.tarsnap.net/ This work is funded by cperciva@ and Tarsnap Backup Inc. Cheers, - Graham Percival From nobody Tue Dec 9 11:04:39 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQbbX5rjPz6KPcy for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 11:04:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from comdir@infonix.info) Received: from forward502a.mail.yandex.net (forward502a.mail.yandex.net [178.154.239.82]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQbbV44nqz3T4g for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 11:04:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from comdir@infonix.info) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=infonix.info header.s=mail header.b=oLva1I0t; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of comdir@infonix.info designates 178.154.239.82 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=comdir@infonix.info Received: from mail-nwsmtp-mxback-production-main-94.vla.yp-c.yandex.net (mail-nwsmtp-mxback-production-main-94.vla.yp-c.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c0d:713:0:640:1c1c:0]) by forward502a.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTPS id 75B8A81ED8; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 14:04:40 +0300 (MSK) Received: from mail.yandex.ru (2a02:6b8:c0f:1514:0:640:1d76:0 [2a02:6b8:c0f:1514:0:640:1d76:0]) by mail-nwsmtp-mxback-production-main-94.vla.yp-c.yandex.net (mxback/Yandex) with HTTPS id Y4LVRu10rqM0-jkbDZ9pH; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 14:04:40 +0300 X-Yandex-Fwd: 1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infonix.info; s=mail; t=1765278280; bh=6TwkT0Ezntnnl8FqseXmDz/qov3wUfZk9JivvuFqAOM=; h=Message-Id:References:Date:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:From; b=oLva1I0ttADQMWdhL6O7UwBxHaZ3FCXVobeoyzMIYbICR27WoOl07Q7NPBqSbDwDh CDXQuw8COhTgG7j7l8bMSzfSuV6D9pnKVbtIxEKxMkdXQHoOU72u6KssmTHG7d92yZ OOFmPaCAl7Hh2E/Y9TyFozbyiLL3aYBN3LM4da/o= Received: by zh4mfevp4ifcvtxn.vla.yp-c.yandex.net (sendbernar/Yandex) with HTTPS id 02e0d9b557feda32d8b713db261d366b; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 14:04:39 +0300 From: =?utf-8?B?0JvQtdC+0L3QuNC0INCT0L3QtdC30LTQuNC70L7Qsg==?= To: S. Ross Gohlke , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" In-Reply-To: <48dcc1b8-0157-46c2-803c-2b217a56bf7b@bisd.ro> References: <11071764173299@mail.yandex.ru> <200391764598041@mail.yandex.ru> <3644111764683408@mail.yandex.ru> <207781764767464@mail.yandex.ru> <923f73e9-181e-4afa-9686-364fcab88b34@bisd.ro> <48dcc1b8-0157-46c2-803c-2b217a56bf7b@bisd.ro> Subject: Re: operation not supported Wayland List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Yamail [ http://yandex.ru ] 5.0 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2025 14:04:39 +0300 Message-Id: <115011765277810@mail.yandex.ru> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.09 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.989]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:178.154.239.80/28]; MIME_HTML_ONLY(0.20)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[infonix.info:s=mail]; MIME_BASE64_TEXT(0.10)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:~]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[infonix.info]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[infonix.info:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQbbV44nqz3T4g PGRpdj5TbyEgSSBoYXZlIGRvbmUgcmVzZWFyY2ggYW5kIGludmVzdGlnYXRpb24pKSBJIGZvdW5k IG91dCB0aGF0IHRoZSBzeXN0ZW0gaW5zdGFsbGVkIGZyb20gdGhlIGltYWdlIChkYXRlIDIwMjUx MTEwKSBydW5zIGFsbCBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgaW4gd2F5bGFuZC4gwqBJIGNoZWNrZWQgb24gNCBt b3RoZXJib2FyZHMgd2l0aCBpOTE1a21zIChrYWJ5IGxha2UgYW5kIHNvbWUgb3RoZXIgbGFrZSkp KSByYWRlb25rbXMgYW5kIGFtZGdwdS4gU3RhcnRpbmcgZnJvbSAyMDI1MTEyNCAtICJvcGVyYXRp b24gbm90IHN1cHBvcnRlZCIuIG9uIGFueSBoYXJkd2FyZSEgWW91IGp1c3QgdXBkYXRlIHRoZSB3 b3JraW5nIHN5c3RlbSBhbmQgZ2V0IGEgbm9uLXdvcmtpbmcgZmlyZWZveCwgZm9yIGV4YW1wbGUu IChJbiBnZW5lcmFsLCBtb3N0IG9mIHRoZSBzb2Z0d2FyZSBkb2VzIG5vdCB3b3JrLCBidXQgdGhl IGNvbXBvc2VycyB0aGVtc2VsdmVzIGRvKS48L2Rpdj48ZGl2Pkl0J3MgdGhlIHNhbWUgaW4gMTUt U3RhYmxlLjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+PGRpdj5TLiBSb3NzIEdvaGxrZSAtIGNvdWxkIHlvdSB1cGdyYWRl IHRoZSBzeXN0ZW0gYW5kIGdpdmUgaXQgYSB0cnk/PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PGRpdj4tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5UbyB3aG9tOiBmcmVlYnNkLWN1cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmcgKGZy ZWVic2QtY3VycmVudEBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZyApOzwvZGl2PjxkaXY+U3ViamVjdDogb3BlcmF0aW9u IG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0ZWQgYnkgV2F5bGFuZDs8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PjA0LjEyLjIwMjUsIDE2OjUxLCAi Uy4gUm9zcyBHb2hsa2UiICZsdDtyb3NzQGJpc2Qucm8mZ3Q7OjwvZGl2PjxibG9ja3F1b3RlPjxw PsKgPC9wPjxkaXY+T24gMTIvNC8yNSAwNzoyNiwgUy4gUm9zcyBHb2hsa2Ugd3JvdGU6PC9kaXY+ PGJsb2NrcXVvdGU+PGRpdj5PbiAxMi8zLzI1IDA3OjIzLCBMZW9uaWQgR25lemRpbG92IHdyb3Rl OjwvZGl2PjxibG9ja3F1b3RlPjxkaXY+WW91IHdvbid0IGJlbGlldmUgaXQgLSBJIGluc3RhbGxl ZCAxNS4wLVNUQUJMRSBhbmQgdGhlIHNhbWUgdGhpbmcgaGFwcGVuZWQgYWdhaW4uIEknbSBhbHJl YWR5IHN0YXJ0aW5nIHRvIHRoaW5rIGl0J3MgdGhlIGNvbXB1dGVyIGhhcmR3YXJlLiBBbHRob3Vn aCBpdCB3b3JrZWQgdW50aWwgMTEvMjQvMjAyNS48L2Rpdj48ZGl2PkdQVS1maXJtd2FyZS1pbnRl bC1rbW9kLWdlbWluaWxha2UgYW5kIGk5MTVfa21zIGFyZSB1c2VkIChkaWZmZXJlbnQgdmVyc2lv bnMsIGxhdGVzdCwgNjEsIDUxNSk8L2Rpdj48ZGl2Pi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS08L2Rpdj48ZGl2 PlRvOiBTLiBSb3NzIEdvaGxrZSAoPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOnJvc3NAYmlzZC5ybyIgcmVsPSJu b29wZW5lciBub3JlZmVycmVyIj5yb3NzQGJpc2Qucm88L2E+ICksIDxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpm cmVlYnNkLWN1cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmciIHJlbD0ibm9vcGVuZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJlciI+ZnJl ZWJzZC1jdXJyZW50QGZyZWVic2Qub3JnPC9hPiAoPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOmZyZWVic2QtY3Vy cmVudEBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZyIgcmVsPSJub29wZW5lciBub3JlZmVycmVyIj5mcmVlYnNkLWN1cnJl bnRAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc8L2E+ICk7PC9kaXY+PGRpdj5TdWJqZWN0OiBvcGVyYXRpb24gbm90IHN1 cHBvcnRlZCBieSBXYXlsYW5kOzwvZGl2PjxkaXY+MDIuMTIuMjAyNSwgMTc6MDUsICJMZW9uaWQg R25lemRpbG92IiA8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86Y29tZGlyQGluZm9uaXguaW5mbyIgcmVsPSJub29w ZW5lciBub3JlZmVycmVyIj4mbHQ7Y29tZGlyQGluZm9uaXguaW5mbyAmZ3Q7PC9hPjo8L2Rpdj48 YmxvY2txdW90ZT48ZGl2PkkgaW5zdGFsbGVkIHRoZSBzeXN0ZW0gYWdhaW4gdG9kYXksIG9uIGEg ZGlmZmVyZW50IGRpc2suIEFuZCBpdCBkb2Vzbid0IHdvcmshIEV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgaXMgZXhhY3Rs eSB0aGUgc2FtZSwgIm9wZXJhdGlvbiBub3Qgc3VwcG9ydGVkIi4gU28gaXQgd2Fzbid0IG1lIHdo byBicm9rZSB0aGUgc3lzdGVtLCBidXQgdGhlIHVwZGF0ZS5DYW4gdGhpcyBhbHJlYWR5IGJlIGNv bnNpZGVyZWQgYSBidWc/PC9kaXY+PGRpdj5EdXJpbmcgdGhlIGluc3RhbGxhdGlvbiwgSSBzZWxl Y3RlZCB0aGUgaW5zdGFsbGF0aW9uIGZyb20gdGhlIHBhY2thZ2VzICh0ZWNoIHByZXZpZXcpLCBt YXliZSB0aGlzIHdpbGwgaGVscCBpbiB0aGUgZGlhZ25vc2lzPyBUaGUgZHJtLWxhdGVzdCBtb2R1 bGUsIEkgdHJpZWQgZHJtLTUxNSwgYnV0IGl0IGRvZXNuJ3QgaGVscC4gwqA8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PsKg PC9kaXY+PGRpdj4tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5UbzogUy4gUm9zcyBHb2hsa2Ug KDxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpyb3NzQGJpc2Qucm8iIHJlbD0ibm9vcGVuZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJlciI+ cm9zc0BiaXNkLnJvPC9hPiApLCA8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86ZnJlZWJzZC1jdXJyZW50QGZyZWVi c2Qub3JnIiByZWw9Im5vb3BlbmVyIG5vcmVmZXJyZXIiPmZyZWVic2QtY3VycmVudEBmcmVlYnNk Lm9yZzwvYT4gKDxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpmcmVlYnNkLWN1cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmciIHJl bD0ibm9vcGVuZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJlciI+ZnJlZWJzZC1jdXJyZW50QGZyZWVic2Qub3JnPC9hPiAp OzwvZGl2PjxkaXY+U3ViamVjdDogb3BlcmF0aW9uIG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0ZWQgYnkgV2F5bGFuZDs8 L2Rpdj48ZGl2PjEyLzAxLzIwMjUsIDE3OjE1IHAubS4sICJMZW9uaWQgR25lemRpbG92IiAmbHQ7 PGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOmNvbWRpckBpbmZvbml4LmluZm8iIHJlbD0ibm9vcGVuZXIgbm9yZWZl cnJlciI+Y29tZGlyQGluZm9uaXguaW5mbzwvYT4gJmd0Ozo8L2Rpdj48YmxvY2txdW90ZT48ZGl2 PjxkaXY+VG9kYXkgSSB0cmllZCB0byByZW1vdmUgbW9zdCBvZiB0aGUgcGFja2FnZXMsIGJ1dCBJ IHdhcyBhbG1vc3QgbGVmdCB3aXRob3V0IHBrZykpIFRoZSByZXN1bHQgd2FzIGEgc3lzdGVtIHdp dGggZmV3ZXIgcGFja2FnZXMgdGhhbiB3aXRoIHRoZSBuZXcgaW5zdGFsbGF0aW9uLiBSZWluc3Rh bGxlZCB3YXlsYW5kLiBBbmQgd2hhdCBkbyB5b3UgdGhpbms/IEV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgaXMgdGhlIHNh bWUsIG1vc3QgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIHN3ZWFyIG9uICJvcGVyYXRpb24gbm90IHN1cHBvcnRlZCIg SW5zdGFsbGVkIGZvb3QgYW5kIHdheWZpcmUuIEJ5IHRoZSB3YXksIHRoZXkgd29yay4gQnV0IGZp cmVmb3ggaXMgbm90LiBJIGRpc2NvdmVyZWQgdGhhdCBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgdGhhdCBkbyBub3Qg cnVuIHVzZSBsaWJtLnNvLjUsIGJ1dCBkbyBub3Qgc2VlbSB0byB1c2UgcnVubmluZyBhcHBsaWNh dGlvbnMuIE5vIG90aGVyIGRpZmZlcmVuY2VzIGFyZSB2aXNpYmxlIHlldC4gSeKAmWxsIHRyeSB0 byBjb21wYXJlIG9uIGdpdGh1YiBmb290IGFuZCBhbGFjcml0dHkgdGhpcyBldmVuaW5nLCBtYXli ZSBJ4oCZbGwgZmluZCBzb21lIGtpbmQgb2YgcGF0dGVybi4gVG9tb3Jyb3cgaXTigJlzIHRpbWUg dG8gdHJ5IHRvIHJlaW5zdGFsbCB0aGUgc3lzdGVtKSk8L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2PsKgPC9kaXY+ PGRpdj7CoDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLTwvZGl2PjxkaXY+VG8gd2hvbTogPGEg aHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOmZyZWVic2QtY3VycmVudEBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZyIgcmVsPSJub29wZW5lciBu b3JlZmVycmVyIj5mcmVlYnNkLWN1cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc8L2E+ICg8YSBocmVmPSJtYWls dG86ZnJlZWJzZC1jdXJyZW50QGZyZWVic2Qub3JnIiByZWw9Im5vb3BlbmVyIG5vcmVmZXJyZXIi PmZyZWVic2QtY3VycmVudEBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZzwvYT4gKTs8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PlN1YmplY3Q6IG9w ZXJhdGlvbiBub3Qgc3VwcG9ydGVkIGJ5IFdheWxhbmQ7PC9kaXY+PGRpdj4yNy4xMS4yMDI1LCAx OTo0NCwgIlMuIFJvc3MgR29obGtlIiAmbHQ7PGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOnJvc3NAYmlzZC5ybyIg cmVsPSJub29wZW5lciBub3JlZmVycmVyIj5yb3NzQGJpc2Qucm88L2E+Jmd0Ozo8L2Rpdj48Ymxv Y2txdW90ZT48cD5PbiAxMS8yNi8yNSAxMDoxMSwgTGVvbmlkIEduZXpkaWxvdiB3cm90ZTo8L3A+ PGJsb2NrcXVvdGU+PGRpdj48ZGl2PjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImJveC1zaXppbmc6Ym9yZGVyLWJveCI+ PGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iYm9yZGVyLXJhZGl1czowcHggM3B4IDNweCAwcHg7Ym94LXNpemluZzpib3Jk ZXItYm94O21pbi13aWR0aDowcHg7cGFkZGluZzoxMHB4O3ZlcnRpY2FsLWFsaWduOnRvcDt3aWR0 aDoxNDIyLjM5cHgiPjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImJveC1zaXppbmc6Ym9yZGVyLWJveDtoZWlnaHQ6MTU2 LjU0N3B4Ij48ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJib3gtc2l6aW5nOmJvcmRlci1ib3g7bWluLWhlaWdodDoxcHgi PjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImJveC1zaXppbmc6Ym9yZGVyLWJveCI+PGRpdj48ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJib3gt c2l6aW5nOmJvcmRlci1ib3giPjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImJveC1zaXppbmc6Ym9yZGVyLWJveCI+SGkh PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iYm94LXNpemluZzpib3JkZXItYm94Ij5GcmVlQlNEIDE2LjAtQ1VS UkVOVCwgV2F5bGFuZC4gQWZ0ZXIgdGhlIG9uZSBvZiB1cGdyYWRlIChvciBhZnRlciBzb21lIG9m IG15IGV4cGVyaW1lbnRzIHdpdGggdGhlIHN5c3RlbSksIG1hbnkgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIHN0b3Bw ZWQgcnVubmluZy4gTW9zdCBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMuIE9sZCwgcHJvYmFibHkgWFdheWxhbmQsIGFw cGxpY2F0aW9ucyB3b3JrLiBUZWxlZ3JhbS1kZXNrdG9wLCBhIHJveC10ZXJtaW5hbCwgYnJvd3Nl ciB3YXMgYWJsZSB0byBydW4gLSBuZXQtc3VyZi48YnIgc3R5bGU9ImJveC1zaXppbmc6Ym9yZGVy LWJveDttYXJnaW4tdG9wOjBweCIgLz48YnIgc3R5bGU9ImJveC1zaXppbmc6Ym9yZGVyLWJveCIg Lz5FcnJvcnMgZHVyaW5nIGxhdW5jaCB2YXJ5LCBidXQgYWxtb3N0IGV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgaXMgdW5p dGVkIGJ5ICJvcGVyYXRpb24gbm90IHN1cHBvcnRlZCAob3MgZXJyb3IgNDUpIjwvZGl2PjxkaXYg c3R5bGU9ImJveC1zaXppbmc6Ym9yZGVyLWJveCI+V2VsbCwgeWVzLCBXYXlsYW5kIGNvbXBvc2l0 b3JzIHN0YXJ0IGFuZCB3b3JrIHdpdGhvdXQgcHJvYmxlbXMgKGh5cHJsYW5kLCBsYWJ3YywgaGlr YXJpKSwgZXJyb3JzIG9jY3VyIHdoZW4gbGF1bmNoaW5nIGNvbXBvc2l0b3JzIGNsaWVudHMgLSBh cHBsaWNhdGlvbnMuPC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9k aXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPjxwPkkgYW0gcnVubmluZyBhIFdheWxhbmQgc2Vz c2lvbiBvbiBGcmVlQlNEIDE2LjAtQ1VSUkVOVCBwa2diYXNlIGZyb20gYSBjb3VwbGUgb2Ygd2Vl a3MgYWdvIGFuZCBoYXZlIG5vdCBzZWVuIHRoZXNlIGVycm9ycy48L3A+PHA+V2F5ZmlyZSBpcyB0 aGUgY29tcG9zaXRvciwgYW5kIG15IHJlZ3VsYXIgYXBwIHJvdGF0aW9uIC0tIGZvb3QsIEZpcmVm b3gsIFRodW5kZXJiaXJkIC0tIGlzIGFzIHN0YWJsZSBhcyBpdCBoYXMgYmVlbi4gSSBhbSBub3Qg dXNpbmcgWFdheWxhbmQuPC9wPjxwPklmIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBzcGVjaWZpYyBhcHBzIHlvdSB3b3Vs ZCBsaWtlIG1lIHRvIGNoZWNrIGxldCBtZSBrbm93LjwvcD48cD5SZWdhcmRzLDwvcD48cD5Sb3Nz wqA8L3A+PC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT48L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+PC9ibG9ja3F1b3Rl PjxwPiUgcGtnIGluZm8gLXggZ3B1PGJyIC8+Z3B1LWZpcm13YXJlLWludGVsLWttb2QtdGlnZXJs YWtlLTIwMjMwNjI1LjE2MDAwMDM8L3A+PHA+JSBwa2cgaW5mbyAteCBkcm0gfCBncmVwIGttb2Q8 YnIgLz5kcm0tbGF0ZXN0LWttb2QtNi45LjE2MDAwMDM8L3A+PC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPjxwPkFsc28s IGhlcmUgaXMgbXkgcmVsZXZhbnQgZW52aXJvbm1lbnQsIGV4Y2x1ZGluZyBYREcuPC9wPjxwPlNB TF9VU0VfVkNMUExVR0lOPWd0azM8YnIgLz5RVF9XQVlMQU5EX0RJU0FCTEVfV0lORE9XREVDT1JB VElPTj0xPGJyIC8+R0RLX0JBQ0tFTkQ9d2F5bGFuZDxiciAvPlNETF9WSURFT0RSSVZFUj13YXls YW5kPGJyIC8+UVRfQVVUT19TQ1JFRU5fU0NBTEVfRkFDVE9SPTE8YnIgLz5NT1pfRU5BQkxFX1dB WUxBTkQ9MTxiciAvPlFUX1FQQV9QTEFURk9STT13YXlsYW5kLWVnbDxiciAvPkNMVVRURVJfQkFD S0VORD13YXlsYW5kPGJyIC8+UVRfUVBBX1BMQVRGT1JNVEhFTUU9cXQ1Y3Q8YnIgLz7CoDwvcD48 cD5UTVBESVIgaXMgbW91bnRlZCB0bXBmcyBzaW5jZSBkZWZhdWx0IC90bXAgc2l6ZSBtaWdodCBi ZSB0b28gc21hbGwgZm9yIHByb2dyYW1zIGxpa2UgRmlyZWZveCB0byBkbyBhbnl0aGluZyB1c2Vm dWwuPC9wPjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT48ZGl2PsKgPC9kaXY+PGRpdj7CoDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+PHNwYW4g c3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6I2ZmZmZmZjtjb2xvcjojNjY2NjY2O2Rpc3BsYXk6aW5s aW5lICFpbXBvcnRhbnQ7ZmxvYXQ6bm9uZTtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXpl OjEycHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7 dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3JtYWwiPi0twqA8L3NwYW4+PGJyIHN0 eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOnJnYiggMjU1ICwgMjU1ICwgMjU1ICk7Y29sb3I6cmdiKCAx MDIgLCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgKTtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9u dC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFu c2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3JtYWwiIC8+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQt Y29sb3I6I2ZmZmZmZjtjb2xvcjojNjY2NjY2O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNp emU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFy dDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vd3JhcCI+U2luY2VyZWx5LDwvc3Bh bj48YnIgc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6cmdiKCAyNTUgLCAyNTUgLCAyNTUgKTtjb2xv cjpyZ2IoIDEwMiAsIDEwMiAsIDEwMiApO2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6 MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0 ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vcm1hbCIgLz48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iYmFj a2dyb3VuZC1jb2xvcjojZmZmZmZmO2NvbG9yOiM2NjY2NjY7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNl O2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFs aWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6bm93cmFwIj5MZW9uaWTC oEduZXpkaWxvdjwvc3Bhbj48YnIgc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6cmdiKCAyNTUgLCAy NTUgLCAyNTUgKTtjb2xvcjpyZ2IoIDEwMiAsIDEwMiAsIDEwMiApO2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9z cGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4 dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vcm1hbCIgLz48 c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iYmFja2dyb3VuZC1jb2xvcjojZmZmZmZmO2NvbG9yOiM2NjY2NjY7Zm9udC1m YW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2ZvbnQtd2Vp Z2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6 bm93cmFwIj5JTkZPTklDUyBMTEM8L3NwYW4+PGJyIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOnJn YiggMjU1ICwgMjU1ICwgMjU1ICk7Y29sb3I6cmdiKCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgKTtmb250LWZh bWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWln aHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpu b3JtYWwiIC8+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6I2ZmZmZmZjtjb2xvcjojNjY2 NjY2O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1h bDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3do aXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vd3JhcCI+KzcoNDcxMik3NzAtMzY1PC9zcGFuPjxiciBzdHlsZT0iYmFja2dy b3VuZC1jb2xvcjpyZ2IoIDI1NSAsIDI1NSAsIDI1NSApO2NvbG9yOnJnYiggMTAyICwgMTAyICwg MTAyICk7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9y bWFsO2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7 d2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6bm9ybWFsIiAvPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOiNmZmZm ZmY7Y29sb3I6IzY2NjY2Njtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9u dC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFu c2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3dyYXAiPis3KDkxOSkyMTAtOTctNzM8L3NwYW4+PC9k aXY+PGRpdj7CoDwvZGl2Pg== From nobody Tue Dec 9 11:44:38 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQcTr0ZFqz6KVBM for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 11:45:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic313-19.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic313-19.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.65.82]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQcTp6ZX4z3JQF for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 11:45:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b=S4scf3ZD; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.65.82 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1765280694; bh=RYnsmo0L/HHzGsO2O3v1+I85iSXn9McEPgxJ8pZzzmA=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=S4scf3ZDQ0xSnd98vwOnly1X3sMOJ6RlaZESey+F2zGXLWqVwGTEF2CZM6skTchauX/6Qi+oGxvRyASPd8EcBHj2IMkWOnvBUzkSPLa3P4pGs4bYrLbnLHMMXWbXOKLhQtb5b7sknfKnDHL6d/M7/OyUvd2kk2I+bnImJzqPIQ5FnsOSZg+9gxnunXqtw+NzWeELVRWFBQDMXbYPxdBrbX3CChLoi1diwmPxWUH6L70/w2FzTI3r7RX1ryIUKdQC06LWdfCk5pwwrdsdHgMCUdNbz5FDaeZTxuUYno/wdWJHO+XUHYL2owLXbL1XjvrG0kjuYX71BAhkv6s/rkcPcQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1765280694; bh=SoebyRvZH4nbtqCrOCVK/cMGJczIQ2ooB+npftwa+yg=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Subject:From:Date:To:From:Subject; b=NS7zNsIszvWCgueFQDQ4SF+UydxsLMDAVXz0Y0uEoNr0ov/hB6Ujejqu1TYTpAd1AfpfERGjU2jr3wHnmFtp20RK9J/J3GAS6mK06tm/VB+E9TyDXVq1ysfLLBXMBK1d/D4fumnW86V+AUufcSniRRoIl4rUc08GY/AlLEN2Mw1DvqZcS4F4fr8ZNSPWT4HtyoW63E+vpSB8iaoAjyOFKnchEmEHG3RcBjlfYPua7LRZxuy4TYWEZqz9/r8xJ5AkzGfAyALiOfzxtYc/65nVU6OfeAZuRvXN2j5NsmTZI/UbmlbTLZxTNFKKzn9OuF6eBqFx/iLJLKXWPaEkFyKlHA== X-YMail-OSG: h1ZE3PkVM1kWKZpcTQW2IdTdmXpvOyXFTRwoNHq.IHbJggLfA.xU2TFqyjjZGSF 5NSx81geTB8IQV2yROrcBu9ABJhurJj7dYIfuH5xnpyZRtlAH.JCcFh7RSvDpahAQdct5tn6uxy0 qABi0F1zKNvvekGtGbuSVz39B8dDhpzJMNYeL.jFJM8Ds39KGG9rWBcRUetuZFFdu8AzLqrSE6Gs _B1skVhLdHuf.cCXuQl_saYO766dpvKF.ha1YAjX1qKSTRTVT.vpI02p09w5V4iePMkaBmLoEYDr Y3XJuVMCVXuFp0bx1O4hCsaxs1Ts_cbUyzNqcpbSAUji.NR6nj6ShtDwlfnPSmnxEWffRBbioi3G NEP0n87osX5RWu6SBi4cTY3zexWViQ4dff1hBqMHiEiOkch6ZyuddEoeX6kwVkH14f6NtXbpG48X 8BnWfXWAW.A6YbBVzzEee0a6RTroSu6V65cD3TZjGxaCEZEvwcuGYXVojEtFJf7Zqzez1vvWVgry Pz_DLFl8UQerxpnKhwFjVkeUtdOj9e5IxYFvGzxqKLnSnWc8dCjGi5qI9SeLKKV33Gv6.CFDXtgb C34ZPxpx15qSuWrRnzN6Owx4eSMHnI5YLzITsRk4DXzUCLYrxaba9V7WtRJqDeKga8UzSxOY75mn JIH5AOITBnWeBaFfwp6b.UDysbFhXIdKnDxMbmZy3BXou0S7oA3cQ_z45KqH89KZmJ4ScZYl8Z8g f_M5c7nDUxV5aEhqWlXrAc9sUyeZxu3AF8mtzpGY32WqOtL4Z84AP7T9aSjmnetPAdMFGT.fpIVu lgUw.F5yxGI80.gqNxgb9rg8UZ_1xC6fMgvJTHkfbp9z2pPKc6VLBmVcpk7vTI6ShxO9TPp62x33 hVxPCZAxIm7W_5Y.M8Q3uf9IJTwwS1MUDWi.6qdxq5GCgoi.71bKjdrnxn32K4zoRST3tJlF0s2y vohp14Z4W1lSFBC0vx_3hVagxBiR38dabr5.vvTA.KW76kUf5CEAU0IaGwM1x6Kgw8bnvHAZWAoT RI62oI4J1zB.VdYdTx9p3jlDJPwpnBSMYxTkZwzwSMko86xVHgcjr_3A_T.VEF57GF3AU9mj4b9h 7xru4vpApT4K3.0koy0AC3AuOM9IOaHx9cJX0XdK.7JGQHPKYb9nt_YL0DMHnvU5cVsM98PfiEfI 8eTcRfpLPP4x9O_bPGm1pNqF_6Bjkf8v4m2eZCNKKw3JC_AoBWPl3oODvoo0ZdhzChC1rsYfKzyg EXq.1RZpMUfMTvQmnTcYIL3SPemoAxkL_EW0wldsx8i9Y5SeKoylwQvlHV6J9bGhJW2gY7Ub0vBt RRli_J_O_fZVvDxG8ZzUAdxqzUyCqYZP6BylWggko6LXSa534OXnLLuWEQ2b0SP.eR0LosXiFc8_ 1ZPrENleppHNA0tCNv_HCegCSUXfMFUlAtwbS4r2YP6WHMycwZi0Qfe8z02w0AxNMNB50uxVxsLs _sU8Up3YbORwbweuR2.5yTF8Ds6d3u95ROh5q_zDZetu_3n8OckCuwKmP1N9H.8PuHsYJDPgDxQx ZC3n7lMwhBX10J_wOsezcfH1Eegif06aWp3EJkQrOEIDbJz_nFAlDK25N3iNN9UOXbrxNy_49mLG 3FZyN.25INk9cM3qLo0gkzTSEbKYWFD.4WePbzdLYJgX6w11nnMqFzL4ap79jwsvHsIl_xbrl7Eu iJJ5aEsAKYk6csZ9BPVwOf3nCXiTZzxLflrbzhxCKugMsOLslnC.BLH75XKbzZTkZ4IiHWtTdaB. 33EMpperweCOC8ijf9vDKpcdxD5PJyFuqA8jmN259g82XMuPHMlzJs00VYHtYufXOg84OoUfMTIW R7nAs0sn3nr30a_BiIH8p3CiZlNnRKo6gNHMWAc_h0vAbcwvEPDAvY.xdPSuUYU0ZCvYZnXz_KeU _LXZHR_a7YyUX3jkVv1SIHqOGssiG7A7fMWwaigDQOXGw6eiVB8v3ayO_NCbqZ.iaMF8FaHmX0EV tze_.zm9rwGPbTja3bEoXONPEghB2LzOswQPluJuijMuAsNON1SbkbZjIq7RZ4JyeVwwy6qLVlXo j_sDTWv9GKptiw1X4X4v0m5cdb4UazQmkKg.gT9ZxAjc0D1FX_HWecsJ4u6ciBXjvncDgIuFOZ4T uP5AtluEpmvgW1ZESSMeycze68G0bDMhy30cGw.cyzuzuRlU9Mb6Pvj8uAl8ebJbjDiLR5QskK2c S62jBVyWaj96im2i4QUnEwPQrIORm7eDchBl5cA_n93ZAq3fsL5zCFAmdfGWCp2lHSugMs.CHRI3 8d7cnPOmwOIt6SA-- X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 50cad393-06ee-4ea0-a6b3-171beeadd9f3 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 9 Dec 2025 11:44:54 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-gq1-54bf57fc64-tvxhk (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID d6dbaf95c7fce164963674c2c03393bc; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 11:44:49 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 [What should be the case for 15.0-RELEASE: WITH_ASSEERT_DEBUG or WITHOUT_ASSERT_DEBUG ?] From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <6A8AD343-01E3-42B0-9086-F3C598C33DBC@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 03:44:38 -0800 Cc: FreeBSD Current Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <19A848A6-0042-4873-B70D-AD6805225B92@yahoo.com> <902C948B-0A4C-48E1-8C6C-1BC7A15209D7@yahoo.com> <33F5F7DE-8DFA-47E2-A890-E07564825D05@yahoo.com> <6A8AD343-01E3-42B0-9086-F3C598C33DBC@yahoo.com> To: Warner Losh , Konstantin Belousov , Mateusz Guzik , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.53 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.53)[-0.535]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[bsdimp.com,freebsd.org,gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.65.82:from]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.65.82:from]; APPLE_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQcTp6ZX4z3JQF On Dec 8, 2025, at 11:02, Mark Millard wrote: > https://cgit.freebsd.org/src/blame/share/mk/bsd.opts.mk?h=3Dreleng/15.0 = shows: >=20 > __DEFAULT_YES_OPTIONS =3D \ > ASSERT_DEBUG \ > . . . >=20 > Looks like it has been that way going back > into 2014. It suggests that care needs to > have been taken to not have added any > expensive asserts, likely including in > contributed software, such as jemalloc > updates and others? >=20 > This is a difference with what I tested, by > the way: >=20 > WITH_MALLOC_PRODUCTION=3D > WITHOUT_ASSERT_DEBUG=3D > WITHOUT_PTHREADS_ASSERTIONS=3D > WITHOUT_LLVM_ASSERTIONS=3D >=20 > I have not tested how much of a difference > it makes. >=20 > For reference: >=20 > WITHOUT_ASSERT_DEBUG > Compile programs and libraries without the assert(3) = checks. >=20 Just to get an idea, I rebuilt my jemalloc 5.3.0 using WITH_ASSERT_DEBUG and installed that into the jemalloc 5.3.0 chroot. I then did a rm -fr in that chroot of the prior test build. I then had the chroot rebuild from the same source tree it had built with before, using the same src.conf as before, trying not to vary the build result. So this would be a comparison with the 9384 second figure for forming the time ratio (WITHOUT_ASSERT_DEBUG). It got: World build completed on Tue Dec 9 08:44:39 UTC 2025 World built in 10350 seconds, ncpu: 8, make -j8 So: 10350/9384 is a little over 1.10 jemalloc 5.2.1 / jemalloc 5.3.0, both WITHOUT_ASSERT_DEBUG, from previous activity: 9754/9384 is a little under 1.04 Using the 15.0 and 14.3 qt6-webengine-6.9.3 quarterly times from ampere3 and ampere1: 53:33:46/38:25:51 approx.=3D 53.56/38.43 approx.=3D 1.39 And the llvm21 21.1.2 quarterly times I'd recently also reported for ampere3 (15.0) and ampere1 (14.3): 21:26:14/15:24:24 approx.=3D 21.44/15.41 approx.=3D 1.39 So, while use of WITH_ASSERT_DEBUG might be contributing some, it looks unlikely to be the bulk of the difference in the time ratios for 15.0 ampere3 vs. 14.3 ampere1 quarterly. I conclude that this example type of experiment would likely have a limited contribution to identifying what is going on for the 15.0 jail worlds vs. the 14.3 jail worlds (quarterlies) (or the 15.0 quarterly vs. 13.5 default/latest builds) on ampere3 and ampere1. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Tue Dec 9 15:22:55 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQjKQ3CZRz6KmVJ for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 15:23:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x62f.google.com (mail-ej1-x62f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQjKQ0h7vz3vrg for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 15:23:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ej1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b73b24f1784so171834466b.0 for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 07:23:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765293780; x=1765898580; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=8rUsJjUeVSLqYJLBDpYcZZ1Hj8Gwh4RckYYioSQUCQc=; b=dKt8cv9gwu+vQCOCgL9P/J4NxGKSaXW4EuOL2ytWIR7nmteRKvl5cw54Viprygzbv+ 5nJ90g4cQrUC5X11RqFWVQG7uPHgH/r20TFVemkyWqdDUEp3XUXG2qvh3eowkcd3OoxA gPEGV0Puw/fFNlw3WMrGf0USDyMgG7CGbSI8o2UjGNz29XphIsipO699wYb2pAA3REzB p5ElIa0IFO8GzDzxiNSSzKcMcdTLQBIGuoDGoCZJqgy5o0L60n9XCOc6drTVFrnW9VIY bpHcSs9+6NtSAUzjlykcstZNBMRPnL2/02EJqrjS6BBswebweyoJTcT6NS2FycM1siSw dFOg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765293780; x=1765898580; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=8rUsJjUeVSLqYJLBDpYcZZ1Hj8Gwh4RckYYioSQUCQc=; b=ADxYaCHxWWuVfQ1G84XpT/zsFt85WxQe9LnMVdPrk8/MjnN+/OslTgSXk6q2GkvUjh 7Pjo/Ofy2pWTazEIOuJtOtMnl2jtoA4SeyBQBTOuLUDi3DFC4sw5xveXS0tI8m0l+vUR tBBKvZenQ9F9xTKKqBcBy/zo6I6TDHjaRcRwI9WUCcUQBe4ksN56EV05M6h4VV1MMn1a raBXYtQ2vRElcSDipOBVVrBv8ufFwdgEDAA/BNknGzLS3S9vqjTGdaRW3pKFaZa6f/I6 auirBZFYmU0fsZXskf+M3Po6Bqqi4Fz07gOrJ99BwEhOt5X9NLyN+Ltb3llLYFFmogSd 7oMA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWDs6pbQfSM4RQE8JG7wV/2V1OeVLv6TlEngYOwHMakTOWHiiKQ/068RpFYCpNE95s3qwNS6FDN8n27Aj2OZXs=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxf4rzuviZwvcAGAKO5Wdq+G52V7+FsQOyPjNKkjeKGAj/mdptZ 5YXzKbBR1egssJhkL5E+O9T3mZB0UmjBZ18UU7WfD2oFBvVA65nxRocm X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncu9zAssRhZwBiJrXzdD6UTj+lJiWvaK8Q+PcMvS1PKECgQSYFtyl8SkX+ckhlN /tb+lN+IfkiJSrN4z+BGnGg1jdBJx8JYpAY4jeT1iFLrtbC9fnxnMTzk1R1FauxYsAFJkzJHvvh Au/C9Sfpa7vA4m051AHqy3CtVxnkTKzyRJeepm2Rtm6KLPMg5ReRFmZlR3hsrafkiOq//L2jT3n Rq6KRarN4kTmlxrU4/aM/0R25duvd+59wREEhPy+qTijyC4RHYHysoIUdxefnLvg3M2nNOZGQou uV85EYCRUdDcPO3KeENFXulfXLr8usRBp8Vs08sHLdSf/rXo8DBqiyJlJL3pz6TIi1RkT1nzv1A fY/YUf3Cw/t27uH7ltOshl0Mk5CvNr03j5fizhR0J+YStxqSUA6ZM1pprSwo67HW0HVm3O419rY FU7gxwVGQiuRjJaVxBvrog3vF3 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHsd1p714cANA8Cx+iWmnDR2SazijzbXsxIm51R59DfITVsu5DqLX93m92fXHV9Uv7dQdf8rQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:f58a:b0:b3f:f6d:1d9e with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b7a6e1b6071mr228244266b.6.1765293779466; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 07:22:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from rimwks.local ([2001:470:1f1b:4dc:3daf:f3f0:f818:d3fd]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b79f44595ecsm1434011366b.2.2025.12.09.07.22.57 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 09 Dec 2025 07:22:58 -0800 (PST) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 17:22:55 +0200 To: Mark Millard Cc: Mateusz Guzik , Warner Losh , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , Konstantin Belousov Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 [The Microsoft Dev Kit 2023 buildworld took about 6 minutes less time for jemalloc 5.3.0, not more, for non-debug contexts] Message-ID: <20251209172255.6d1a7f4c@rimwks.local> In-Reply-To: <33F5F7DE-8DFA-47E2-A890-E07564825D05@yahoo.com> References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <19A848A6-0042-4873-B70D-AD6805225B92@yahoo.com> <902C948B-0A4C-48E1-8C6C-1BC7A15209D7@yahoo.com> <33F5F7DE-8DFA-47E2-A890-E07564825D05@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.3.1 (GTK 3.24.51; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.3) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQjKQ0h7vz3vrg On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 09:23:52 -0800 Mark Millard wrote: > But, as of yet, I've no good evidence for blaming > jemalloc as a major contributor to those timing > ratios --or for blaming any other specific part > of 15.0 . If you want to bench jmalloc - there is another ways to do that without building something. Try to find some sythetic benchmarks. Also jmalloc can be build without OS rebuild and linked with bench. This 2 things can reduce time to tests, but it will eliminate OS integation factors. Run same bench on different OS may give more info. From nobody Tue Dec 9 15:26:36 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQjPc4mpwz6Kn08 for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 15:26:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x62c.google.com (mail-ej1-x62c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQjPb12fxz3xMf for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 15:26:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=j4j2ZBEn; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rozhuk.im@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::62c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rozhuk.im@gmail.com Received: by mail-ej1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b7277324204so1057965466b.0 for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 07:26:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765294000; x=1765898800; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=1QGLzkQVIgkeo/sdso54C4065Q1G9HXRADmJcJBCV8Q=; b=j4j2ZBEnsSGB3AUU+mBdse6tL+KFuPhn9wtWLdb4WdRPWmz/S90XNd7H2xLkfFeJRN iRHBmeDh6DATK2Du6SJ7KVTu4aikTzoPt52CtJ3Y8HW7Nr07Bl6gywBYZlwEbjWtDqtR OPxqXejLPELiYJN+vbNgsysiSE8NEEW3cjg/71S9szLwD4Do/6P5zY7ybBA8Pw/ZsM70 65UjFtAvaUkwzL7dPYtTVkVqYhXq8GWzNYEAfqjdlrkOJXfxH5/X7QuzcnkSAggUc7V+ 3P81VVcjvrdO68j+L2J8R04rPbLYS9X3FapBAsaU1UY93Ora9YblAkou0P44zKxxs9Fx yCAQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765294000; x=1765898800; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:date:from:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=1QGLzkQVIgkeo/sdso54C4065Q1G9HXRADmJcJBCV8Q=; b=bRRFkD2/5V54avWEr6n8slFg54GlrI3w5vCgXZTFvImMkbKZIQotV2CIn8uGVsxtKu ydZp9WCBGzgEXpZWMrZ9Hh5C2afdND6pBJho9lesL+dqtwaJLxTwwXB4KBeFIWJktG6m 0fMorqdM11IIT8yIk5tIaNYRzJA1pTjlEW8VR6gSyxXnl0GWEZbLns+U3eV0sfy1FEiT EubNl9RGCzgPKqwTXnlj2Las6OgYyfbNns4g6c4HTxNRDHhDvRRUCyHSrAkFfAexdEdO ZruUwz7zhlYA5gNMZ/Bayk0fUG/abVlOTP1W+CxWGve3kSyHiexk8yj17LEU90yAn7RS Jwbw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyjDX5XTetgIp8rHABUnsnX709N9LhbFPcppkL/B3PwLDv20rwP +w6WcNsnR3G5GnGkUSrRtLk//vsifZ5JoU6AH0PKzsxforxyRKWHiCTa X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvsVic5qDK+Ca+buhy2NvrXyolwavTlXNRBwmRBbgaJaU0q9S6zHwxF8thr7gL 8ZI04/Ynunl5Ttij8rVQw0hKJuDsrV4Vp8KxA1grmD1Cp0lLpNnZhs91s/LySjRsfqvtqis8U6c Esqh4QN44+a5dX5EI/ntUWL84I3hAnicwPmgKj0bYJX/M1O06yIdjb4kwP52NgAdd7EnHina62B KmPAzWjizPGdbK7OMbNxVAU6lfQuKI6Z5JEx+HWpVJlO4vUn2qgMvl9qrH9767ecQ2wB2PqCwuD hbJnD095pfcG9BYCAN/grg7WlNOtPMfdQ2Yy7aXx1OsECkEfeQ6MAagIj3Hj8pGpkJhx3Ki72x7 bmSH9FOfzdcWty7k4ifgJIu/lMw3ZqNeZ4A3QNFY5H2MYQmf2+mKZRBDZ9wUOjNd7fllAitopPA se3XJiX5ZhYkWyQA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGfUq+GwAsiD3imY1i9cSTfSF7efJNnQAIsggBVA3KWHBUdw41L7Vn7J4uTABm1DjEQIzNqtA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:7f10:b0:b70:7cd8:9098 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b7a2475de83mr1238886966b.61.1765293999913; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 07:26:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from rimwks.local ([2001:470:1f1b:4dc:3daf:f3f0:f818:d3fd]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b79f4977ecdsm1435418566b.41.2025.12.09.07.26.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 09 Dec 2025 07:26:39 -0800 (PST) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 17:26:36 +0200 To: Michael Butler Cc: freebsd-current Subject: Re: fib selection and persistence using ipfw Message-ID: <20251209172636.6dd7ae73@rimwks.local> In-Reply-To: <75037780-3748-4cf3-8a44-a0e9c0b76e06@protected-networks.net> References: <20350073-abc5-4116-9fd7-8e8f708a26d4@protected-networks.net> <20251208031147.393b2391@rimwks.local> <75037780-3748-4cf3-8a44-a0e9c0b76e06@protected-networks.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.3.1 (GTK 3.24.51; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.3) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.97 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.968]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::62c:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQjPb12fxz3xMf On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 08:38:22 -0500 Michael Butler wrote: > > Do not forget set fib to network interface like it done in examlpe. > > In my case if same IP+mask set on more than one net if - only last > > one will process packets to sockets. > > Interface FIBs only work when the connection stays on the same > machine. https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?ifconfig fib fib_number Specify interface FIB. A FIB fib_number is assigned to all frames or packets received on that interface. The FIB is not ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!! inherited, e.g., vlans or other sub-interfaces will use the de- fault FIB (0) irrespective of the parent interface's FIB. The kernel needs to be tuned to support more than the default FIB using the ROUTETABLES kernel configuration option, or the net.fibs tunable. From nobody Tue Dec 9 16:04:47 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQkFb3VgNz6J6J1 for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 16:04:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ross@bisd.ro) Received: from ada.kiz.li (ada.kiz.li [38.45.72.165]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQkFY6cjbz48KT for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 16:04:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ross@bisd.ro) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=bisd.ro; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ross@bisd.ro designates 38.45.72.165 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ross@bisd.ro Received: from [10.3.0.30] (tulsa.kiz.li [205.209.235.143]) by ada.kiz.li (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 51146051 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO) for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2025 11:04:48 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------94zzpnY0jvC0VS38NbbfjYX8" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 10:04:47 -0600 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: operation not supported Wayland To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <11071764173299@mail.yandex.ru> <200391764598041@mail.yandex.ru> <3644111764683408@mail.yandex.ru> <207781764767464@mail.yandex.ru> <923f73e9-181e-4afa-9686-364fcab88b34@bisd.ro> <48dcc1b8-0157-46c2-803c-2b217a56bf7b@bisd.ro> <115011765277810@mail.yandex.ru> Content-Language: en-US From: "S. Ross Gohlke" In-Reply-To: <115011765277810@mail.yandex.ru> X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.88 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.967]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.82)[-0.818]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[bisd.ro,reject]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.50)[-0.498]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:174, ipnet:38.45.72.0/24, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQkFY6cjbz48KT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------94zzpnY0jvC0VS38NbbfjYX8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 12/9/25 05:04, Леонид Гнездилов wrote: > So! I have done research and investigation)) I found out that the > system installed from the image (date 20251110) runs all applications > in wayland.  I checked on 4 motherboards with i915kms (kaby lake and > some other lake))) radeonkms and amdgpu. Starting from 20251124 - > "operation not supported". on any hardware! You just update the > working system and get a non-working firefox, for example. (In > general, most of the software does not work, but the composers > themselves do). > It's the same in 15-Stable. > S. Ross Gohlke - could you upgrade the system and give it a try? I upgraded from 20251106 to 20251204 and I did run into a problem -- I was going to try 20251205 before I reported anything, but not there yet. After upgrade, Firefox (and Thunderbird) refused to launch from the menu. In a panic, I compiled Firefox from ports and got the same result, but this time I tried running it a second time directly from the terminal and it gave me a dialog window offering to launch in Safe Mode, which worked. Safe Mode disables all extensions, hardware acceleration and something else. My extensions were fine, but I had to disable hardware acceleration to get Firefox to launch normally: Settings > General > Performance     Uncheck "Use recommended performance settings"         Uncheck "Use hardware acceleration when available" I have never seen this setting, I have never used this setting, I don't know if this is due to a change in FreeBSD or Firefox or both. It was the same story with Thunderbird, but Thunderbird did not preemptively provide a Safe Mode dialog when run from the terminal. I had to run "thunderbird --safe-mode" to open it so I could disable hardware acceleration. Some background on my system: Lenovo ThinkPad E14, Intel Core i5-1135G7 vgapci0@pci0:0:2:0:     class=0x030000 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor=0x8086 device=0x9a49 subvendor=0x17aa subdevice=0x5088     vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'     device     = 'TigerLake-LP GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics]'     class      = display     subclass   = VGA According to Lenovo, here: https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_E14_Gen_2_Intel/ThinkPad_E14_Gen_2_Intel_Spec.pdf     Intel Iris Xe Graphics capability requires system to be configured with dual-channel memory. On the system with single-channel memory, Intel Iris Xe Graphics will function as Intel UHD Graphics Since E14 only has one memory slot, I must be consigned to UHD Graphics, but I have no clue as to the implications. The final important detail is that I recently upgraded from 16GB to 32GB (used) RAM, after upgrade to 20251106 but before upgrade to 20251204. Regards, Ross > ---------------- > To whom: freebsd-current@freebsd.org (freebsd-current@freebsd.org ); > Subject: operation not supported by Wayland; > 04.12.2025, 16:51, "S. Ross Gohlke" : > > On 12/4/25 07:26, S. Ross Gohlke wrote: > > On 12/3/25 07:23, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote: > > You won't believe it - I installed 15.0-STABLE and the > same thing happened again. I'm already starting to think > it's the computer hardware. Although it worked until > 11/24/2025. > GPU-firmware-intel-kmod-geminilake and i915_kms are used > (different versions, latest, 61, 515) > ---------------- > To: S. Ross Gohlke (ross@bisd.ro ), > freebsd-current@freebsd.org (freebsd-current@freebsd.org ); > Subject: operation not supported by Wayland; > 02.12.2025, 17:05, "Leonid Gnezdilov" > : > > I installed the system again today, on a different > disk. And it doesn't work! Everything is exactly the > same, "operation not supported". So it wasn't me who > broke the system, but the update.Can this already be > considered a bug? > During the installation, I selected the installation > from the packages (tech preview), maybe this will help > in the diagnosis? The drm-latest module, I tried > drm-515, but it doesn't help. > ---------------- > To: S. Ross Gohlke (ross@bisd.ro ), > freebsd-current@freebsd.org > (freebsd-current@freebsd.org ); > Subject: operation not supported by Wayland; > 12/01/2025, 17:15 p.m., "Leonid Gnezdilov" > : > > Today I tried to remove most of the packages, but > I was almost left without pkg)) The result was a > system with fewer packages than with the new > installation. Reinstalled wayland. And what do you > think? Everything is the same, most applications > swear on "operation not supported" Installed foot > and wayfire. By the way, they work. But firefox is > not. I discovered that applications that do not > run use libm.so.5, but do not seem to use running > applications. No other differences are visible > yet. I’ll try to compare on github foot and > alacritty this evening, maybe I’ll find some kind > of pattern. Tomorrow it’s time to try to reinstall > the system)) > ---------------- > To whom: freebsd-current@freebsd.org > (freebsd-current@freebsd.org ); > Subject: operation not supported by Wayland; > 27.11.2025, 19:44, "S. Ross Gohlke" : > > On 11/26/25 10:11, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote: > > Hi! > FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT, Wayland. After the > one of upgrade (or after some of my > experiments with the system), many > applications stopped running. Most > applications. Old, probably XWayland, > applications work. Telegram-desktop, a > rox-terminal, browser was able to run - > net-surf. > > Errors during launch vary, but almost > everything is united by "operation not > supported (os error 45)" > Well, yes, Wayland compositors start and > work without problems (hyprland, labwc, > hikari), errors occur when launching > compositors clients - applications. > > I am running a Wayland session on FreeBSD > 16.0-CURRENT pkgbase from a couple of weeks > ago and have not seen these errors. > > Wayfire is the compositor, and my regular app > rotation -- foot, Firefox, Thunderbird -- is > as stable as it has been. I am not using XWayland. > > If there are specific apps you would like me > to check let me know. > > Regards, > > Ross > > % pkg info -x gpu > gpu-firmware-intel-kmod-tigerlake-20230625.1600003 > > % pkg info -x drm | grep kmod > drm-latest-kmod-6.9.1600003 > > Also, here is my relevant environment, excluding XDG. > > SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN=gtk3 > QT_WAYLAND_DISABLE_WINDOWDECORATION=1 > GDK_BACKEND=wayland > SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland > QT_AUTO_SCREEN_SCALE_FACTOR=1 > MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1 > QT_QPA_PLATFORM=wayland-egl > CLUTTER_BACKEND=wayland > QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=qt5ct > > TMPDIR is mounted tmpfs since default /tmp size might be too small > for programs like Firefox to do anything useful. > > -- > Sincerely, > Leonid Gnezdilov > INFONICS LLC > +7(4712)770-365 > +7(919)210-97-73 --------------94zzpnY0jvC0VS38NbbfjYX8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 12/9/25 05:04, Леонид Гнездилов wrote:
So! I have done research and investigation)) I found out that the system installed from the image (date 20251110) runs all applications in wayland.  I checked on 4 motherboards with i915kms (kaby lake and some other lake))) radeonkms and amdgpu. Starting from 20251124 - "operation not supported". on any hardware! You just update the working system and get a non-working firefox, for example. (In general, most of the software does not work, but the composers themselves do).
It's the same in 15-Stable.
S. Ross Gohlke - could you upgrade the system and give it a try?

I upgraded from 20251106 to 20251204 and I did run into a problem -- I was going to try 20251205 before I reported anything, but not there yet.

After upgrade, Firefox (and Thunderbird) refused to launch from the menu. In a panic, I compiled Firefox from ports and got the same result, but this time I tried running it a second time directly from the terminal and it gave me a dialog window offering to launch in Safe Mode, which worked. Safe Mode disables all extensions, hardware acceleration and something else.

My extensions were fine, but I had to disable hardware acceleration to get Firefox to launch normally:

Settings > General > Performance

    Uncheck "Use recommended performance settings"

        Uncheck "Use hardware acceleration when available"

I have never seen this setting, I have never used this setting, I don't know if this is due to a change in FreeBSD or Firefox or both.

It was the same story with Thunderbird, but Thunderbird did not preemptively provide a Safe Mode dialog when run from the terminal. I had to run "thunderbird --safe-mode" to open it so I could disable hardware acceleration.

Some background on my system: Lenovo ThinkPad E14, Intel Core i5-1135G7

vgapci0@pci0:0:2:0:     class=0x030000 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor=0x8086 device=0x9a49 subvendor=0x17aa subdevice=0x5088
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = 'TigerLake-LP GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics]'
    class      = display
    subclass   = VGA

According to Lenovo, here:

https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_E14_Gen_2_Intel/ThinkPad_E14_Gen_2_Intel_Spec.pdf

    Intel Iris Xe Graphics capability requires system to be configured with dual-channel memory. On the system with single-channel memory, Intel Iris Xe Graphics will function as Intel UHD Graphics

Since E14 only has one memory slot, I must be consigned to UHD Graphics, but I have no clue as to the implications.

The final important detail is that I recently upgraded from 16GB to 32GB (used) RAM, after upgrade to 20251106 but before upgrade to 20251204.

Regards,

Ross

----------------
Subject: operation not supported by Wayland;
04.12.2025, 16:51, "S. Ross Gohlke" <ross@bisd.ro>:

 

On 12/4/25 07:26, S. Ross Gohlke wrote:
On 12/3/25 07:23, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote:
You won't believe it - I installed 15.0-STABLE and the same thing happened again. I'm already starting to think it's the computer hardware. Although it worked until 11/24/2025.
GPU-firmware-intel-kmod-geminilake and i915_kms are used (different versions, latest, 61, 515)
----------------
Subject: operation not supported by Wayland;
02.12.2025, 17:05, "Leonid Gnezdilov" <comdir@infonix.info >:
I installed the system again today, on a different disk. And it doesn't work! Everything is exactly the same, "operation not supported". So it wasn't me who broke the system, but the update.Can this already be considered a bug?
During the installation, I selected the installation from the packages (tech preview), maybe this will help in the diagnosis? The drm-latest module, I tried drm-515, but it doesn't help.  
 
----------------
Subject: operation not supported by Wayland;
12/01/2025, 17:15 p.m., "Leonid Gnezdilov" <comdir@infonix.info >:
Today I tried to remove most of the packages, but I was almost left without pkg)) The result was a system with fewer packages than with the new installation. Reinstalled wayland. And what do you think? Everything is the same, most applications swear on "operation not supported" Installed foot and wayfire. By the way, they work. But firefox is not. I discovered that applications that do not run use libm.so.5, but do not seem to use running applications. No other differences are visible yet. I’ll try to compare on github foot and alacritty this evening, maybe I’ll find some kind of pattern. Tomorrow it’s time to try to reinstall the system))
 
 
----------------
Subject: operation not supported by Wayland;
27.11.2025, 19:44, "S. Ross Gohlke" <ross@bisd.ro>:

On 11/26/25 10:11, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote:

Hi!
FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT, Wayland. After the one of upgrade (or after some of my experiments with the system), many applications stopped running. Most applications. Old, probably XWayland, applications work. Telegram-desktop, a rox-terminal, browser was able to run - net-surf.

Errors during launch vary, but almost everything is united by "operation not supported (os error 45)"
Well, yes, Wayland compositors start and work without problems (hyprland, labwc, hikari), errors occur when launching compositors clients - applications.

I am running a Wayland session on FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT pkgbase from a couple of weeks ago and have not seen these errors.

Wayfire is the compositor, and my regular app rotation -- foot, Firefox, Thunderbird -- is as stable as it has been. I am not using XWayland.

If there are specific apps you would like me to check let me know.

Regards,

Ross 

% pkg info -x gpu
gpu-firmware-intel-kmod-tigerlake-20230625.1600003

% pkg info -x drm | grep kmod
drm-latest-kmod-6.9.1600003

Also, here is my relevant environment, excluding XDG.

SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN=gtk3
QT_WAYLAND_DISABLE_WINDOWDECORATION=1
GDK_BACKEND=wayland
SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland
QT_AUTO_SCREEN_SCALE_FACTOR=1
MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1
QT_QPA_PLATFORM=wayland-egl
CLUTTER_BACKEND=wayland
QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=qt5ct
 

TMPDIR is mounted tmpfs since default /tmp size might be too small for programs like Firefox to do anything useful.

 
 
-- 
Sincerely,
Leonid Gnezdilov
INFONICS LLC
+7(4712)770-365
+7(919)210-97-73
 
--------------94zzpnY0jvC0VS38NbbfjYX8-- From nobody Tue Dec 9 17:29:02 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQm6p3zy9z6JFN2 for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 17:29:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ross@bisd.ro) Received: from ada.kiz.li (ada.kiz.li [38.45.72.165]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQm6n3kjVz3Sxf for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 17:29:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ross@bisd.ro) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=bisd.ro; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ross@bisd.ro designates 38.45.72.165 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ross@bisd.ro Received: from [10.3.0.30] (tulsa.kiz.li [205.209.235.143]) by ada.kiz.li (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 7be1e4f3 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO) for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2025 12:29:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <64d0d25a-4187-440d-ac68-c0e454bdcd84@bisd.ro> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 11:29:02 -0600 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org From: "S. Ross Gohlke" Subject: mddestroy from script hangs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.47 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.969]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.968]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.93)[-0.934]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[bisd.ro,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:174, ipnet:38.45.72.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQm6n3kjVz3Sxf I am running pkgbase upgraded on 20251204. Since the upgrade, two of my scripts invoking "mdconfig -du" suddenly hang: ^T     load: 0.68  cmd: mdconfig 48250 [mddestroy] 845.83r 0.00u 0.00s 0% 2808k     mi_switch+0x172 sleepq_switch+0x109 _sleep+0x24d mddestroy+0xc4 mdctlioctl+0x462 devfs_ioctl+0xd1 VOP_IOCTL_APV+0x51 vn_ioctl+0x160 devfs_ioctl_f+0x1e kern_ioctl+0x2a1 sys_ioctl+0x133 amd64_syscall+0x169 fast_syscall_common+0xf8 Sometimes I can quit it with ^C, sometimes I can't, but in either case subsequent invocations of mdconfig, like "mdconfig -lv", likewise hang. If I disable the "mdconfig -du" in the script and perform it manually from the command line, it works fine. I tried sleeping for a bit before "mdconfig -du", that did not help. These two scripts, one of which has been in use for years, one for months, have never exhibited this problem. Regards, Ross From nobody Tue Dec 9 20:32:46 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQrCC47MBz6JmfD for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 20:33:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic303-25.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic303-25.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.64.206]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQrCB6XJRz43M8 for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 20:33:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b=qFTfSjNe; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.64.206 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1765312383; bh=LAToRkNx5NbLWdxGgG8S/U7CIvID6OsHYQggAXwq6h0=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=qFTfSjNeODBS1Xapv8VFOERUZ16ZS0PWe44vRFNZlyVYs7lnzwdiQ/DA1tlNeJp3tWIpO04SqHfvdeZNQVkZwfKtcHLzTGCFnZOUQd3r+jcJQlPWYmfFCfRearh+5cY+koXbw1JxGiTyRk/hjGjnkzUqACjXCK+dwmjetzg2kufq20nXFxGQBCzJ6fZo+cUdRioFSSHLiT1yd5DycHcigM4Z/al9FSU8OAA0iaArrIHh3vAsBAq8VSP/rS/Hmvt722W8FDsJHhRpplivUnvWoDNkvyz1WdGVtJXUUTMAMmeu+JJe61xh0Sa5/EJ/8M71n96DLJb0AQd+DJULFiIJHA== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1765312383; bh=jaQSY7CCpkgQ1lepct/N98DiL5crH4VUP3IZheVZY6N=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Subject:From:Date:To:From:Subject; b=hiuTKsVbwnHCUAVUajrkfkfRRbQlyJ/UiNR3oFC+9qdJxgtWhTLzoq0bvVoceRur8okJs2ZtwSrGggy9IaIqaMHlvtZ7ZU+cM85k66QYBo0DhHBjIqUOec2neW76/h/p4Djin05oV0AE/puBK7sQbgOTnCZb/zQBhJHaC+R26x3QmCQK9elBLtjinNRN48wL1NFXXOOSprimkkG8f8pkUkCT2EWW0LymM4s8Vt4bnTyiXou7txLVmrWhxufiz9as/3zoZiJQ7xpe+KTrxpz2E5a32hoghWryodEiw6ogpnkvISf2nQOqWqX/klbigi9RGuIStV11vtBcSsBaryUVew== X-YMail-OSG: 2NonvIQVM1mpzlf35jERXhaluZHaWYBZp2s8O.SGz3fKUysilurB2ERzBUuFMWb fR8XthyIwSSlPFpZHY3WKeDsn3MZedVdcy3wW0MHEXXKLLVkd4wezytBCb0iEiJXq94POk5hyXnJ OukGp1_T0FaGt_qZ9v0P.UhTEEaNA3fH3F1.pxJ0VRY6mcQC8jwb6UAF9nDMMtJNAUxXL1f7WrDf 4gEziVU._4OevMgQ6adij6o68lN.gQBovelevg3F59xAjdi6ZeJaoNihAXLq2COJTfU0n9ZBCgIs 3cT7Wsu.yqWHA0CJjrlh7tNdx4xcD_7o5T2kbedyy.H.TYB14pPhyzD.Yi2a1rgxD8jDYMqUTr8i 57Yl8KkmioGFJGHSEcdLwvVaPUJAGqRmtgudvvJf.2LBc6HyIMpkK_z5jO0I55ReRvYgt1fEK.f9 RHgFwEdEecLiX_p265CsW_82nupt8MrDsxKiEPMjhO9.f6NreDDsLQe6DMOyuddYz69DeBYdDt3X ckXHU17Pur9n8BRBrOfubdFZFFyazdMYVg3cD02jGAOnteBPkGaPfG.YMY8ptgljTqxIVZvFW8_M kYA.plgsS5tHDvITVHz6UCvliIsgw_IrwSCXbQv.SlqB2zu3CD608ba72AtJoA0oSr_vk0AVYj9. CR6QxplMF1FP_S5Rl2Hmd2KJgArtAjuPcTkPqUgO72_qzyUxcGZboPnffnpEUnkiAeHI8g88QrJ_ 7PPNQwKm56v6tHUk5fILSdgkrypbVmskWIZC8u28SibmmQIXVvsHKZnGwQ6LTWFfN.FXXl9BGWRD owDXGEY4wv.2IRzzxK3V33OGoHmZGkOCVuqCyoDiIXzXQ4eAis2Yg9R6kMsg7_e1gKbLyviDaUpj FBpcvu24dX5mAsaF8zJqyBxd_c_Em6ry_u5F.4zeHpYEy6YMve0VZXrwmSUkSpsJ87nzFGBuneIW 35fAh3uFstqOIv5FrM5o0_XfaHwOhWTbAUWpm_7dT70eL1GlJRVSAktM1K9r91Ehry7pozROh5jV yYq8xOtUeb_T5Ibxcfe59RyPSrdpg1rWjAxl0mnVa1ESizouu69m4hF9arD37_8Kb4a6G1yjyqQt eIVJv1fdG7eizab6YBe2dne.aoFs40LLge8EVcO0rK90VPzmMpdU1ENsZMpqBKkZwHaIoRypqQN0 af8tUnlHPn0v8GSde9.ATr6EWEWHr28M0pilSvSugerLbMzcKEh30YHVXhDM_nnHa7Zmzg.XywqR Z6sdKQ4i8.2uKcyI7B8KfcWqW2fCYhGUQD9m8SSaZc4YjhiD7_BW.h6Y6uacIPunkGPbirAt7MSs yyZ1ZCRhsUwvJ7zx5DsIxujhrMHFkRkwceApnGkHCsYmh6TcxPyDaMwvckJYUldEFWgvo1Kh3imP tqMd5NYVPJxVsQOzEI7btzqSRrUE7A_Jk6KFHJWhcTOUwbrUO6twpurTetWR670.Vf7bwcyEdH7c eFMYubRUMtQiXbPrM9HPSKr1PYtNjreoLpsLlQVnoIJdHMg69iN5f6x.0bwUaEn3qCUNy5qaatRN xAly6lkXA7YR5D3AGw5wNk0vKXdMMwzUzH_d2bh1C7Omb.n3nFXEbfO3_9STmA5WqDilyaI2wjbS C4YOBKgsFbiiX0MpcnZ81..dP4Nzs04PfMxRmLz.zwmxo2I9gjuEyyxLHJd4WA.hpHsu83TX6klH aP40gbaolPkiuowVfUQHAnaQ5gezi3DY0O7D_Zhdr2iSQP37MKlDfQyzwycwNUTzzxcVRi_gzV7J GX6YCfJkMg9f8.NlCtpG8NkNVn3gyG6Et8l_n56F6INQcH5WxzWAroNGegAPUcwPOoRILm3NJHd4 xRme.1.vkoWkol9htVLSLC3jI29SWx4qvMNwNwfzl7aoGorSU53R6PsO8DnRsg5ocHWwwqJBc5s7 k0AqxOQeKRjgSQJvJ9xtbOsKoDcR9bmF5H7t4zOlfkXG0NJCwGSwuhMUQzVwQFt3.v.YSlmoTygG fJWqouvQuL1Q1GkdaMvTS3ktgGtJEVS6EaSa3Y1ULfVt3B4O2s5i7cxpUqB8JAjHjHMlV69qbk7Z WC0RGqJpK8S1CioToD2BE5ORlF7q0MDMb3ox4rGWGn5VG3tFNE2wHrv8bPctj4Toq9gJverPViwU 9PqPf3YWE2U.VPOljgswBYW4hCP7YqbUEXl_WWs5eZjPEQ4lYO2fwx3LXcCJD325Sjp1t881iHu7 7Jtn1DLGNENvt7VlbaVlcHF8Pu778bxmYbWFRjGVuhpIp1PKKs_8fgdESmEcV.kksSYr_P3LIiBZ LR8TQLg-- X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 39109167-b6ff-4b19-b1f0-8edb0ba349f1 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic303.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 9 Dec 2025 20:33:03 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-gq1-54bf57fc64-tvxhk (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID a547a8e9334d1440951a9b824546c146; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 20:32:57 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 [The Microsoft Dev Kit 2023 buildworld took about 6 minutes less time for jemalloc 5.3.0, not more, for non-debug contexts] From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <20251209172255.6d1a7f4c@rimwks.local> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 12:32:46 -0800 Cc: FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <19A848A6-0042-4873-B70D-AD6805225B92@yahoo.com> <902C948B-0A4C-48E1-8C6C-1BC7A15209D7@yahoo.com> <33F5F7DE-8DFA-47E2-A890-E07564825D05@yahoo.com> <20251209172255.6d1a7f4c@rimwks.local> To: Rozhuk Ivan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; APPLE_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.64.206:from]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.64.206:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQrCB6XJRz43M8 On Dec 9, 2025, at 07:22, Rozhuk Ivan wrote: > On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 09:23:52 -0800 > Mark Millard wrote: >=20 >> But, as of yet, I've no good evidence for blaming >> jemalloc as a major contributor to those timing >> ratios --or for blaming any other specific part >> of 15.0 . >=20 > If you want to bench jmalloc - there is another ways to do that = without building something. > Try to find some sythetic benchmarks. > Also jmalloc can be build without OS rebuild and linked with bench. >=20 > This 2 things can reduce time to tests, but it will eliminate OS = integation factors. > Run same bench on different OS may give more info. >=20 [I've eliminated direct Email to most everyone for this reply. There is not even minor new technical content.] At this point I'm more likely to explore if I get similar ratios as ampere[13] do for some port-package builds that have the large ratios on ampere[13]. There are examples that are not as overall time consuming for ampere[13] as what I've already referenced (but are still non-trivial for the time taken). As stands, I do not have a good reproduce-the-issue context, much less one with build time frames I'd be willing to deal with in my environment. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Wed Dec 10 01:15:16 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQyT36BZsz6K7yf for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 01:15:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic310-22.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic310-22.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.69.148]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQyT20XKWz3NvD for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 01:15:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b=VEwPBhmB; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.69.148 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1765329329; bh=cOYVN3Galx5sysSwPxUm/fey0Yz9X3tG92BbdSER2m0=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=VEwPBhmBr5deSD/dcNHec14qVu9SMEQCFZSIv4ff1vziX6rO0s6yNHUFWq+mwTi0K/wFNYWL4NXI8CH7FUXna8wImcNWnSGcW5thSm8bTvqqQ2YeQeNfxDww6QA+wZ9r/Hvl96O7W/L9xImsQY5j2Zq9Mx+rZnAms6wqBDzoP6d5d9xrT5WsPUkNoAIyJe0ZuEn4Qoau4AwUVZplD64ibS2IVgxV8dFsrraORHnbWRTMIurC1Z6eZ1CDd6aS6t81bJ4mSt5LcSNGXBZyVK8BlcquOiuImmW32jyg4KKoKSG6D+ZHLfC21p+m6wkbvJNsu2K3r3EvvCt8i3EkQktC0g== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1765329329; bh=rqyiaGT3cjN+xpFOV+ScJ9bkR4jdwjo3qK0FT6YZaqx=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:Subject:Date:To:From:Subject; b=UtG3mPF1Pi8/18TfvAaY+pK+J/E1oT9RJvhNgejp17BZprnUkIxTdYalxzEnV6q57CLlh1C4PSXH9K4HFveav/gvaSF76JPxd5T70h/LNm/7zD/igjgOjt6EBQHdmFZhR9RIUpfCh0hW6mxRjzPCrtYEgTMsACh/jg81NrGYa7qKqMqHacYrH9VYH720Tb2p0bqkpMHI4bFhIGOVnx2CnBmjV+9M9Q2XV/dblbTQZqMPLDh35GzF0erAPfccDAL3MZ3L6hZl22XZLCYXQCESSpEO6QOyPrTnXtAoPKXKNHRokGBge7YNLt39Y9ESRxNkQ6FVLvryC6TAHSaxVOTeuw== X-YMail-OSG: 8EzPE48VM1lQK1BwU9i3BIMOeBPGNFjHvK4jvPHgziYrSbSQ2AWjv2DmzOsrgic NDqCB1JU11_gts9NSM4a.Rce8hw_9D3TPpwQthSY5sjnCQ0OvAtAVbwGvkcVR1UR7pEhnuTQesyE 9PtzE6tTMoPWMKRTCvAtmUnP2fqZN8Kp6Sd0c6iBZwdHMr_Z7xYg1vQ6AtH95QFPwYZI5c..S535 4SGuc1iQNudbz0TnwyhLoSwx0ngxN6Frsu_ZOfu0pMEKfJxObg120QWpIFVm3iH2w87GgPqyOs2l FEF6Os9psR557_IZIuQ_GeZcZjRT18qOnH2n4Z6gZyoCKqfWdmyRB14gnuw_A9NoegK5AN.ZgIl0 oW_KvkqvCdvlC9IAGxdpLHvbaCfPjzuwmw6fL7dilUMM9J95Z45oTEQ9yHobNrlIRnQ697u0aD.d f7aGnH_H9GkioYia3DDewRFJiBTDK8zqFX21x1RjTm1EoC_aWHk2NHaBnpalsUdlYV7arOWGnfzH 9Zr4rdh5x2tl4LqpromG60XnWnPYUYyWLK8ZZUqhCxOP00ka.jgIw8S64Zqt16i.edhBjgTRspJl 3bKnW9HiDTnBZswdNUcSmWKihRwp4_qswCrOlD6xyyS3k8hc9k94K8Q_cc.v4.3VSmCrU9TnTWn3 sRIceP5535IIHsFAeAbwsa0SoASBJSrgq4ycLQZy0wsW7E4OfC0WimjGZrlJ5fmOwbO.HLmVQUVm Yj4IpoACL_HY0QrL2.oJV8I4Pa7fNZgFo.qxuVzOLTnWWd7AUgJdtfkHz_Gyq3ABJ0sZd4vdM2Ij NpACgL5bzAVZ8tsH4SrBejoTlqQyj_O9KLOf9A3eQeemHKPN4UFJfM_O2vEPQ1_.etdD3DeJGCBx jtlhP1IuqUCPBkkkQV5O3Dr0NOx6TRG5usQNSNt5a_gMBBr3RUJIr12ymX0OC.Rvb1meXFURK.eE IzQBoUD4xRF6Jc0RylPqIWwUv76Oj1afh9U16q2Riud_rXvdhYjwUraOzQD9CQxopN92sUpWYzyv 0Gc7k_TabAVn3GZX_Wo4haGE43rrluc9CzMerLKFqVVDznI.wmkiISEgfMT.KymlsSY8m3O7TraS 2RWTC4kl29bidXIPgXGKtm6iJgJiYyC7fGP0U5GmZVtU9UnpyNh_uQ0svVWvdQ3uTP9gBDL2OQiK Hqx.BM21NGHARftBp0zsPZg0HsbhNUChJL9_L.6.XNR8Hmf49WYDuNdij4rUly2CWfu5SGkICjC7 LdWF9j2osqU.s_.nt9_dbsPCkNExTqlVTqsMqIamyWTlBfRKanBYR6EpDlSLJnbA1Ii1kVpJi_Y1 _VE.ZWbr2FfVW50qTZRzrLykYgaiZ.45VDbFhV0QTVa.njxozPg2AllxTNiMoHqEj03H5f1NS2kg YPjxeqCIfvw623jOkMpBtKCEcjLTqtKfmtEAYdCtSsv7BIhMyBgxn0pnmNh0F3a0wejesHZC4xmw 2Lrpv.6XhFLVBNh.t.uV9ER8bC.Mgn5WokM4c5SwUNLnaBiLigWn_JyoFZ0mhlTgkDfGaQJnZ3Sb RKv0HWOJ48aZM.vcMUGQIHTolvf4s0Rl8DqwE.huC6VZ4SbMQ6AyxHj5wa3homcoGWc8e5gI_yXJ wdeTFCgvf.qU4ZDrvIGYydOyV2y.bcL8CwsOPUQ8ZBXsu_XUbMl0yYRnOiSVkRa4t_hXC17OQOjo 3OE9j0KwtZBFUBJ5rB7LiO2mj4IoDHKY_36K2h3NY2bfYULoNE_p0G1QkYs55IX06P2L2hubzU.u j.rR6eOWVIboK18nYIOlEyL6S2OaUfJUJQ_hIlOjWL8w6LGr3A1Ep2TMR4cRDCKMMciSUqO1.u.i XPskV6AKKNHEe94VHhcR7EaF8OBB7YevJQ25FOC7ROv2nF5tBQ08K2SFMu6TiYrk_8_WO.H2ipS4 mCzpTxRft_Clrnd5NeI1e.4Z9QePCbc9DmEVCXXFjw46AfkHcx0eECCzel46dK1hzl4m.9bmTDE6 zvsJgWPUsJhkTWBYzRF87kvFzP2xlHnyroI7pyEnaqGTstRW6WuBtkCj73V04tXfXfj2CqjKq2ah F_xdRT0F4UaVkr6hFTfaSkv0DuhvBG1zj7SnRta939pd61odA5WCMQalpFzx32S0into4YQm_8i8 8klMbzdOmoAnXFOkhrj1ChvKTCO_XPo43LctdIaxJ.IQEgldUP1JuwxgyV8dmgOUSTHh_1gHyHrm rDqWGnzdbVpQ561fvwhj.ojHIq2YGwha71Ixr4WCYf5XJHYJ7n7e6DBKFOtFRS1T9y2NPfqckaeV kIxiZ7GZkhiLI4S2RclkivL8- X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 0f9cf13f-d290-455c-a856-0911ee2cb385 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic310.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 01:15:29 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-gq1-54bf57fc64-dtvpq (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 6738d46456210e954717b96914461dda; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 01:15:26 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 [Similar port-package build time-ratios reproduce on Microsoft Dev Kit 2023] Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 17:15:16 -0800 References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <19A848A6-0042-4873-B70D-AD6805225B92@yahoo.com> <902C948B-0A4C-48E1-8C6C-1BC7A15209D7@yahoo.com> <33F5F7DE-8DFA-47E2-A890-E07564825D05@yahoo.com> <20251209172255.6d1a7f4c@rimwks.local> To: Warner Losh , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <927C3BBE-BA9E-45A4-A43E-6416CF388FF5@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.98 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.976]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; APPLE_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.69.148:from]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.69.148:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQyT20XKWz3NvD On Dec 9, 2025, at 12:32, Mark Millard wrote: > On Dec 9, 2025, at 07:22, Rozhuk Ivan wrote: >=20 >> On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 09:23:52 -0800 >> Mark Millard wrote: >>=20 >>> But, as of yet, I've no good evidence for blaming >>> jemalloc as a major contributor to those timing >>> ratios --or for blaming any other specific part >>> of 15.0 . >>=20 >> If you want to bench jmalloc - there is another ways to do that = without building something. >> Try to find some sythetic benchmarks. >> Also jmalloc can be build without OS rebuild and linked with bench. >>=20 >> This 2 things can reduce time to tests, but it will eliminate OS = integation factors. >> Run same bench on different OS may give more info. >>=20 >=20 > [I've eliminated direct Email to most everyone > for this reply. There is not even minor new > technical content.] >=20 > At this point I'm more likely to explore if I > get similar ratios as ampere[13] do for some > port-package builds that have the large ratios on > ampere[13]. There are examples that are not as > overall time consuming for ampere[13] as what I've > already referenced (but are still non-trivial for > the time taken). As stands, I do not have a good > reproduce-the-issue context, much less one with > build time frames I'd be willing to deal with in > my environment. Time-ratios similar to the ampere[13] ones for 15.0 vs. 14.3 (or 13.5) were easily repeatable on the Microsoft Windows Dev Kit 2023 for doing poudriere builds of the examples that I tried. port-package builds tested for below: devel/cmake-core TMPFS_BLACKLIST empty ALLOW_MAKE_JOBS=3D in use (no explicit MAKE_JOBS_NUMBER like = restrictions) UFS context (except for what USE_TMPFS=3Dall does in poudriere) The below did not update /usr/ports/distfiles/ . This does some exploration of USE_TMPFS=3Dno vs. USE_TMPFS=3Dall as well, starting with USE_TMPFS=3Dno . Listed in the sequence executed, first time runs shown first: USE_TMPFS=3Dno . . . (Note: The first times had other port-packages to build first.) 15.0 poudriere jail: [00:37:37] [01] [00:12:30] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success 14.3 poudriere jail: [00:28:26] [01] [00:09:38] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success Approx. 1.30 time ratio (15.0's 12:30 / 14.3's 9:38) USE_TMPFS=3Dall (no tmpfs black list) . . . 14.3 poudriere jail: [00:09:32] [03] [00:09:24] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success 15.0 poudriere jail: [00:12:45] [03] [00:12:34] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success Approx. 1.34 time ratio (15.0's/14.3's) The following also prefixed the poudriere bulk -C command with: time -l 15.0 poudriere jail: [00:12:36] [04] [00:12:25] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success . . . 757.10 real 4613.06 user 251.09 sys 866580 maximum resident set size 131 average shared memory size 27 average unshared data size 234 average unshared stack size 31148816 page reclaims 0 page faults 0 swaps 14 block input operations 36 block output operations 37061 messages sent 33671 messages received 1758 signals received 143987 voluntary context switches 167515 involuntary context switches 14.3 poudriere jail: [00:09:23] [01] [00:09:15] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success . . . 564.48 real 3449.89 user 204.14 sys 822900 maximum resident set size 64692 average shared memory size 791 average unshared data size 235 average unshared stack size 28153497 page reclaims 0 page faults 0 swaps 9 block input operations 12 block output operations 34180 messages sent 31539 messages received 1758 signals received 131899 voluntary context switches 132775 involuntary context switches Approx. 1.34 time ratio (15.0's/14.3's) USE_TMPFS=3Dno . . . (again) 15.0 poudriere jail: [00:13:01] [04] [00:12:27] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success . . . 784.89 real 4596.42 user 257.12 sys 866600 maximum resident set size 128 average shared memory size 25 average unshared data size 234 average unshared stack size 31194466 page reclaims 2371 page faults 0 swaps 3573 block input operations 6687 block output operations 37643 messages sent 33840 messages received 1756 signals received 241548 voluntary context switches 304249 involuntary context switches 14.3 poudriere jail: [00:09:49] [04] [00:09:18] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success . . . 592.83 real 3446.18 user 207.61 sys 823880 maximum resident set size 64712 average shared memory size 787 average unshared data size 236 average unshared stack size 28176650 page reclaims 2374 page faults 0 swaps 3481 block input operations 5148 block output operations 34521 messages sent 31580 messages received 1758 signals received 218881 voluntary context switches 255193 involuntary context switches Approx. 1.34 time ratio (15.0's/14.3's) Only some port-packages have time-ratios near 1.34. For example, building lang/gcc15 does not on ampere[13]: closer to 1.1 as I remember. (For the most part, lang/gcc15 does most of its own building based on a smaller amount of clang-built code to bootstrap.) For reference: # poudriere jail -l JAILNAME VERSION OSVERSION ARCH METHOD = TIMESTAMP PATH release14-aarch64 14.3-RELEASE-p6 1403000 arm64.aarch64 ftp-archive = 2025-12-09 12:54:06 /usr/local/poudriere/jails/release14-aarch64 . . . release-aarch64 15.0-RELEASE 1500068 aarch64 pkgbase = 2025-12-06 11:34:39 /usr/local/poudriere/jails/release-aarch64 . . . # ~/fbsd-based-on-what-commit.sh -C /usr/ports bb7b77417165 (HEAD -> main, freebsd/main, freebsd/HEAD) www/hurl: update = 7.0.0 -> 7.1.0 Author: Rodrigo Osorio Commit: Rodrigo Osorio CommitDate: 2025-11-28 23:11:52 +0000 branch: main merge-base: bb7b774171651eea0dc56376c225fe976231daa5 merge-base: CommitDate: 2025-11-28 23:11:52 +0000 n726888 (--first-parent --count for merge-base) # uname -apKU FreeBSD aarch64-main-pbase 16.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT = main-n281922-4872b48b175c GENERIC-NODEBUG arm64 aarch64 1600004 1600004 (That last was an official pkgbase distribution.) =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Wed Dec 10 03:29:52 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dR1SG4Qn0z6KJ7K for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 03:30:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (udns.ultimatedns.net [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R12" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dR1SF1Trcz3ZJ2 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 03:30:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdforge.com header.s=bsdforge header.b=WjP62NEl; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=bsdforge.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bsd-lists@bsdforge.com designates 24.113.41.81 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 5BA3TrDM049540 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2025 19:29:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=bsdforge.com; s=bsdforge; t=1765337399; x=1765337999; r=y; bh=be/f4q2W335zTQ8aRguyvUcwefT8Z6Q3YKQx9axC4WQ=; h=Date:From:To:Subject; b=WjP62NElU9GXCiH63dKWYl5xV2q2sjTSro906Y6phr3BWQmZRP9HYDkSFXTRiMLKC PMU6x8uX5VZ5LPDUvjE2JbmS/rm2hVaCYHT8I3EC8FZiZwnqPueJZiaQQ9ocnoCPqS UlfICxRCVvp4tnpPKGyzcwNEkj5G7Ll+XTYqoud4CbbI1hHI253RUNCJxYqnSKSP6k j8UZ0Y7TDk1A2sVlZ0exlMPqqtUnKgwqB33iX5IaKJ5GgSnfWuEGyi8d6HFq/gUoAC GTqLxEFA/zejVBivt+t2G/hBH/vroE3vpTmyyKWl0mYW3d6dt7aY/fbAN9gNyIY68e oVUco4CEkzCqw== List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2025 19:29:52 -0800 From: Chris To: freebsd-current Subject: Anyone know how to get FreeBSD on a framework 13 laptop? User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <63ebfc5a49b38196ead43b7403f0a12c@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_1fa5024c3e762cfee18202d6a7376470" X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.30 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[bsdforge.com,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdforge.com:s=bsdforge]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; MIME_UNKNOWN(0.10)[application/pgp-keys]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; local_wl_ip(0.00)[24.113.41.81]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdforge.com:+]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=multimap; Matched map: local_wl_ip X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dR1SF1Trcz3ZJ2 --=_1fa5024c3e762cfee18202d6a7376470 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed OK because I know you're going to ask... :-) framework 13 laptop (MSI Crosshair 18 HX AI A2XWGKG-012US)[1],[2] CPU: Intel Core Ultra 9 Processor 275HX [3] GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5070 Laptop GPU with NVIDIA Optimus supported [4] LAN: Realtec RTL???? 2.5Gb WiFi: Intel Wi-Fi 6E AX211(2*2 ax) I'm currently unable to boot any of 13.5,14.n,15.n or 16 on this laptop. On 13.5 it hangs on sc (syscons(4)?) connect... and on all others, it's a timing problem: Event timer "HPET" frequency 19200000Hz quality 350 Event timer "HPET1" freq... ... Event timer "HPET7" freq... atrtc1: on acpi0 atrtc1: Warning: Couldn't map I/O. and that's where it stops/reboots. In all cases, it hangs for some 5 to 7 seconds and reboots. This is a UEFI only laptop. I'm not sure where to start. I'd feel more confident on where to go from here. But w/o dmesg.boot, pciconf, ... I'm a bit short on data. The laptop I'm writing this from is a framework 12 on 16 and since I have src/ I can build a kernel world with whatever kernel tweaks I need to make this framework 13 laptop boot. I'll be glad to help in any way to make FreeBSD work on these. Thank you for all your time and consideration. 1.) https://us.msi.com/Laptop/Crosshair-18-HX-AI/Specification 2.) https://bitpit.us/MS-1841_v1.0_English.pdf 3.) https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/242293/intel-core-ultra-9-processor-275hx-36m-cache-up-to-5-40-ghz/specifications.html 4.) https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/50-series/rtx-5070-family/ --Chris -- There is no such place as the internet --=_1fa5024c3e762cfee18202d6a7376470 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xE512722F.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xE512722F.asc; size=3074 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGf/G0IBCADARuJc6IcwOe3jv7dQsP1X/EIHvCFExPbTmlMNFMXbMMccQUnV o8ayEn+wmTvPhw7uL3PDk7DQs16W1sN2b8UMFc804cVWNGtoG3rA+Np+TFEYlXJx eh5Q42VHptkuwzHKl+q2utkpRlS7uHyfjsInQAoHxLyi/wrsaZTHHhDbLLhJ5Ez0 arohQ2Q1w0M5e9rW8Fy5rpC7RpC6uO1SZMxcbdqURI/BBqxbiD1iW62cDWFkfFX+ dtaEXghFV7BIBMDSrgIunGoEfdMZgXys7O6bPWn8z0cuOZIPj4HrjoCYARyQ+sdc rjz/k06SLM/UvEZDorJhT4DbYrwMNvaPWJiPABEBAAG0HkNocmlzIDxic2QtbGlz dHNAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBNQQQAQgAHwUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgEC GQECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci8bSwf/fK3QcTYXRMrv82HIp4SiGCSD7/bRmyWr ipv2vzknGFHxPBN4AEWIqF/U4j5oDXaodyU6xsy59Z47/lgbyzyZiVR6nmJVgZVf el/EgwnLt7ZuYGLLEhIN2pd9itJkB8PMPZrUHMWgIw8BxX5YFYGuyiNe9pGn0Coj 98t/v3fouhqksH+BpB4TBHJBBDSxSiMm66VTJX4Xcnpf0ZnQVP4GBuoyodnFBfdI wqftPLESsCC08lUhD2j7v2NRWwMi/q3ed8D6VCKPImBByYnBZL5gu56K5bwqaQfN itu06APuIYnG71qxgn1EPO63lovWP5NZGgOKvzs3K+JfPF79BiOUFbQjQ2hyaXMg PG1haWxvcEBocmNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zLm5ldD6JATEEEAEIABwFAmf/G0IGCwkH CAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvBH8H9RGwzZuU6+zvH1WjQa97 yWpEt9rC+BIBJThev2Cpls2LqBqIeIQVZPnyLAZWgFaiezL6+xbvcNt6OnfidIYa x8iRwCMC6/Bs8H2Wef9qfGxXi+jHPLYQk3juiZVmBhIK6FJZkzaW4wSiawofwzbp zqNxO8dZ0j4foaJZrNi8iqsvKjiiHoSFaJtumIThAeydI18CNLeFaS53sk5nad6I wCYeFKmJ/22dMP7DOFEgyG1iNYgY+AGREMkEsBiLpqYjJ5asK+1UdUy/TRly1hOt HHxCiX0Fh9ZYM2vLIj7sq4LKaMPGeYC3qTqBYugVeyz7LkiI2ft/BKveA5JxuYKk ZrQiQ2hyaXMgPG5hbm9nQGhyY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMubmV0PokBMgQQAQgAHAUC Z/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci+4Bwf8D0Ogk2/X ud/CsAgHozwzKPqfesL5SRWM14hLnU9/EHoplnZgNexbVY1wXIi2FYPo5cve9QxW Nmt3S3UTF9j2fGqv0wmeHv3EqogFUHnftLyWpbeTPOFDMIQp/BOD6ygfeXxXWxRT L6zvUkSrDtHvkQHPWGRxwP+ihWjpw9AQR/R4/qAuTAZZM0O7UnJEo4mWXatl+utF wegG2giwFTTxfF+1rMpFtUDjYCpRQ6ZmE+gC1mHUMoH7GJMQv12DbqwKrxtwGfd0 AJNO3ZDnxl24BmIfl1YqQGZQ5iIH7At4YItESbU45hoNNsG9oDrsil78EUCAtXHd UPScj+eXaeAkgrQfQ2hyaXMgPHBvcnRtYXN0ZXJAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBMgQQ AQgAHAUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci9o7Af+ Lwu5hJlI5HZNGwAll7QTIFZVW+y4OEg+amhxTDGbAAqlnSIkHC1KgkmIOOrThme3 kTFCqfIIsuP73yKxHq6kRG0zH5/7asAPNAUOfzD7B2o/gMyuTRKyG5r9f3UmACr4 6qvtFhIwROXr6+NNT2IKg3l0/8F58A0N/TR8D2PTHeo4x6jYcZQDCrCy7BAdk3cu V16k4z/1UzRa07b5McezbWL20cIaZ+dqNcCjKZpzPlTyTCGgrNNtaDpNVhoWUKMB YNcKql+tfC1IpX8l+IU6OBKcDKMkQojvO1QrZqY8MDJGo8jq/CtotQ8+IpAai3Bx dQEsxrxlcKTR4rUqvd8VGbkBDQRn/xtCAQgAv5Nv/aQN72xsLik+K73PJwpUmyhu vnI6stM6dSecylXVHjZ7C4n/m0eQEeQCl+9lByHR9N8H+WS3DtAd4pmciiIxRQLA JZiuaLYcy9ziy1h7130VoR7hhJHzo9FIhWkTGlCDX3egUZrYhMiwFUO8lNltLB8o TBvIrMSsnUzawtQjq/otv0Jf+oBPbG+gIYnAm7w6r86n/l+eVxf5eEoS7wV0DJfp b2jE5zWErWk8I/tq4e8T+1VQeVQR6wz+NrUCSxkPkpNAm19AFUHOk//yvMGWVlDW F6gr3ErN2a0w/kZ0lz3Msxsb87QT+MnJf/T3cuEqdTIoSk74BfNEAdMohQARAQAB iQEfBBgBCAAJBQJn/xtCAhsMAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvyvIH/26zytSVNDaxtprg7XtX LerIWf9RyVx8omCw/lXKRCcgkfwD7QR+nSZ0thWOGMpcnivjuReeVRkz/webUF47 BXJ/Tge07nrxdtyTIHBbp35fPIriaKaII6YWc2Ufdxwv+cD8PADS6gQWAlgrWLmn VmYtyHs4kwtiPZyUyuBdWnZal2GyYY0WVwYjvbk95eInwOaIdoTjesJ7ZhUFu155 r4hh9GlvM0uv8WJ5Mw9wvHa5fIM205I5g0IWC7yvTwwwKHlV4JQQOqMwfv569OEl 1GKqA12nSVziB1+UV+I0NqOABWi/MOi+IySPzYP+XgdPfRNx4vmoHYZwWOQ3t4Jd TEM= =oj6y -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --=_1fa5024c3e762cfee18202d6a7376470-- From nobody Wed Dec 10 04:10:53 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dR2Ml5BGcz6JrWC for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 04:11:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic316-8.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic316-8.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.69.32]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dR2Ml0T0Kz3fvN for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 04:11:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b=Li9Ekp7v; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.69.32 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1765339868; bh=hhCwMboHYvPMsnv/fbUuCya0BD/p2OZL7YpJNMIN1to=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=Li9Ekp7vsIj+aSbGxcsWx9dW4OqxTdwBseQPY8gOx0m80UHJwdMdeH7GkJed20ywKZSDpnI45e44wyeQ5aBd0s+cxuI2SteSYo11zyN/pjqWUbl7lgPRp3FYt/20SYHqRM2EOMJAbyV+cyzQ3MUC36u75b6NY9YYrBXvb28B8E0+YYHQ7Qmh7KB4HMYXqUS9LxtlqIpw5Mg5pc7bFT27TLJs8X7Tfkl8aR1zgDZzwqazcH+dqzaEE4l5GH9jZ1BzGOqZkDlHrOIb7fMsxktRDFoImd/vpRXG9litm4hXUfftCt30uNkAgZ71svtx3wzaU8luiQskUV3xTfLorI/Q1w== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1765339868; bh=417hp/pH3vUwPpHr1KiYeS1SBu+eQvmEjMbOeyRoYeS=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Subject:From:Date:To:From:Subject; b=BDzGHrQuiSMuNHY/D7BXUgFwHRhSdnrJ6KsKhW6o6oFAvpIGwfLFWWdE5zgXzH1XY9oijTZVmJTkbkM49+77N9AkHjnclGS3G8g1jUKxvNGP7MW6/W4iOn9eD3ZjPTXFosuvlnNmjUBZ30ort9zKULmqcfu+o1Zi/mae6kLOpVY9SZXVVBf3y0d3BypTF68LjqqpnB1i4OZrWK7VPvgdq0HxwpAOWwE1N6hRiF/llFZiQyEl225aMcQ7MHXQAe8KSE/zilAlrSmpwAk1jQxv/8shxfIQlViwhshu4+hKP7Fr/f+KYpnZbaoxsmCOlAWJTO6cC0C72qck3w/Rvuz0bg== X-YMail-OSG: rqkcJRkVM1mPR_OMIyR09g6mLGswuPx.tvJwnKFkxW_.gf78c6uEJWaU36ZfQnI g2ZvJyaiFUkvMtJnVeI7NkXTuy2NmSda39972mr2KWEm.RklH5niK.17m48BOWSKk8vKveYDkiRT vHjXWEMuSms.Fq2UcX3HECCmA3XA1TzhSK3hb5kn7yuNHpVniYOhI._0y7uVXw1kb2kK7TxJBEtS JTz3dAeP9goE_iWSecwb3W6YunT_ofQH2xbWyQKRLSlT1gL1jWHsFMrfTY4faUdfegPmdHKUQg03 eWo2TaSrdlilnKjWa0QyXHNexb1U3PbTRmBbH17oqaeRV2tktWJ4VL8KrQmdwmqCaS9NVKCdaenY mf580R4uyHt9.wYXJopr17WcfRJhYURRz_pXu3I4h1qYg2kJbSyhGs_Lvb0McHRcNgi3JpgV5614 jpk0ASGI_vDEEPUzKJvZyaFjuuzUCtaoQSkcDglK9yh0w3iBD9JaogIFaqd33Qkyx7VjE85WepZL JougMP1FYmr96P9Y6cztCBZ4u5fVeDF_pneq0.y196DTs6PrAQx0eXdBC6CvTrN4CVk2Jd1H7ZUk kYvQ2Bs17Myi53zOfYPQqGaOmBOp8TTi8nruwfoulk062zAyUTCqKfxbzhufiZkkiPMTJA.Yis9q duMdTQbrPbETALcq6DhIHwn5jHLRIaYSZomrlH1EXcpjJZ6FSmvuG8gs4f4aHFMi6CmsFIPcexS3 tj0PWiU2Z.d.uhhBKZoKWcQUQ4nZHL.t78fBVeVzh0b2dNnPlT73s2bIwsdsOAdej3dw7ZH9KPmz 2G9NI0QiNmL5xW..ZT2n37QRZgIZllUyfcNeUAZ26pFSC_ghBZ0L1fwzG5r.LGf.Egi9BYAeZ86S K3BElSK1LZQDY2SBumVyE43IYuiWdCfIGVg0hPu9UOGnv1KT9PrzcnJkKscuouatidkltInY0szc y.E0aW26P3JDqSjOM2Hq9AsYbDq5jPuDOFLLJbux6RUzmf2AgXanOgjkFr63qlVtSJfh7uha0baV WRKFh3M68drJ0AUeZ0jnrYkVKqxU5KKWQvxEzXDKl37rrOh7mk5__PAA1iczsYjOibiuDMmkDoj2 lKagA1pDGO0uY0QkPESiXo9Dy1kfQmmbQCaEdIiTdE6gkevrIamMWEuCrwrb8dNbT6V0R31ESzyS zuN8M.Cg_awwHLH7EhHkBIY5UvbMnqux8gil6oegPhcrbn1_72G3w.X4AA.vTNBBOl_V1K51EzrL jpuw6kMFc_NeW.RpSXL26kJNPaM3Qv2ZfZaVQd75md3dawESZriXKvZFJ.U4V0PgDedrNxA3ebuk CV7fqkDhUk6ITzWCxPnsZ1Y_JrOT5GNsF4Ozp39jg0nxurO6sz9hfxYyK3TQfDWNBM6UpGRBsv5i fRNq37ud5B96eSOXYHuD3mAfC1rLg4Zx4LvvhTLrvzsTbweOG8kCP5EE0FDdmuF67ztdkfcpUCzX gyai4XJMrny9EFeIpy0F6fT__iqGrrO1uwoiHxDOE7cl2rEyvZQt8oFHScbLFjRyXyoR3HU7IPeD 8INByUCqVBJmagUvVTORwBeMMKmVaQqnGSdnXnrsGTvQIaapLX8KHv6tvjFDW_mKVrW1QqcXhH7P xjceU.xJ6gwCyiNE2SKm5mQmdy5xrHVm1T_7_JTd2pRDzvylct6fV4keOA0MHtNT55haSBcBG4m8 1gC1.T4UD69scS5Gmr_oPYCktWWodGTT2tvUIyh17V8lZ24C1IUcb2p.prl7FTr4BAJU122l7QWT sfwNqA.VsUGoXPCxtdXCDSrOSj7KCh47UZxzqNS1udTwhGLP3JnIHIufBo6AjVdnMEig0Q6xFWBy C6iVuj6OTJTAkX1Kcw00TFwtwiziX75jQfYlh0q1P6t6KuOmlpnak33l2R4iHd4g8fYkqqVI6zCP Xi1wCY3p6WXJ4xC.NhgfMGM6OtBrUMzi_Vga5vH8NEJtCg8RtPoiYXbFa7A5_KwA7JXPgXY8nfXa 7zUwvwwyxvAn9fa0fnWJ1XzEb_WqTQezGKVCInKzu06dYRSHvVLMK.Ws.U4IAPAwx9Fy6CXyiggR mwLaaDo51dvZ3qeZxllroKsZAWvIEe.1lZIh2fiDW3x5xqGGGBZ3mhBmlU.G7QgHHqu_xUZWKIyd IAeiJ6ikCQMkWvQSrHn60azbarQjJ20r2cZ7CxHKuUmAJpjYVTOeNQf.jNL7KZdmdwQYoURlK9xl HfLQLToqyzIOcZtJdhbFRndjJnwx8lJMgzi2ggWlYsBYz6HYKkfbm89Jcf9LIOI62FwRi1m4e4vi YXKf4M6IZ8zLvdnqcmpMPITWplmi_q7Q- X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: aef9e9e6-71d6-40c7-a210-51e3b641b7d5 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic316.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 04:11:08 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-gq1-54bf57fc64-tvxhk (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 08073f65c57fc7d952d38da05dee0323; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 04:11:04 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 [14.3-STABLE performs much like 15.0-RELEASE for my aarch64 devel/cmake-core build tests, not like 14.3-RELEASE] From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <927C3BBE-BA9E-45A4-A43E-6416CF388FF5@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 20:10:53 -0800 Cc: Rozhuk Ivan Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <577319E0-2051-436A-B9C0-6C1A2DE90618@yahoo.com> References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <19A848A6-0042-4873-B70D-AD6805225B92@yahoo.com> <902C948B-0A4C-48E1-8C6C-1BC7A15209D7@yahoo.com> <33F5F7DE-8DFA-47E2-A890-E07564825D05@yahoo.com> <20251209172255.6d1a7f4c@rimwks.local> <927C3BBE-BA9E-45A4-A43E-6416CF388FF5@yahoo.com> To: Warner Losh , Konstantin Belousov , Mateusz Guzik , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.50 / 15.00]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[bsdimp.com,freebsd.org,gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.69.32:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; BLOCKLISTDE_FAIL(0.00)[98.137.69.32:server fail]; APPLE_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.69.32:from]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dR2Ml0T0Kz3fvN On Dec 9, 2025, at 17:15, Mark Millard wrote: > On Dec 9, 2025, at 12:32, Mark Millard wrote: >=20 >> On Dec 9, 2025, at 07:22, Rozhuk Ivan wrote: >>=20 >>> On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 09:23:52 -0800 >>> Mark Millard wrote: >>>=20 >>>> But, as of yet, I've no good evidence for blaming >>>> jemalloc as a major contributor to those timing >>>> ratios --or for blaming any other specific part >>>> of 15.0 . >>>=20 >>> If you want to bench jmalloc - there is another ways to do that = without building something. >>> Try to find some sythetic benchmarks. >>> Also jmalloc can be build without OS rebuild and linked with bench. >>>=20 >>> This 2 things can reduce time to tests, but it will eliminate OS = integation factors. >>> Run same bench on different OS may give more info. >>>=20 >>=20 >> [I've eliminated direct Email to most everyone >> for this reply. There is not even minor new >> technical content.] >>=20 >> At this point I'm more likely to explore if I >> get similar ratios as ampere[13] do for some >> port-package builds that have the large ratios on >> ampere[13]. There are examples that are not as >> overall time consuming for ampere[13] as what I've >> already referenced (but are still non-trivial for >> the time taken). As stands, I do not have a good >> reproduce-the-issue context, much less one with >> build time frames I'd be willing to deal with in >> my environment. >=20 > Time-ratios similar to the ampere[13] ones for > 15.0 vs. 14.3 (or 13.5) were easily repeatable > on the Microsoft Windows Dev Kit 2023 for doing > poudriere builds of the examples that I tried. >=20 > port-package builds tested for below: devel/cmake-core > TMPFS_BLACKLIST empty > ALLOW_MAKE_JOBS=3D in use (no explicit MAKE_JOBS_NUMBER like = restrictions) > UFS context (except for what USE_TMPFS=3Dall does in poudriere) > The below did not update /usr/ports/distfiles/ . >=20 > This does some exploration of USE_TMPFS=3Dno vs. > USE_TMPFS=3Dall as well, starting with > USE_TMPFS=3Dno . >=20 > Listed in the sequence executed, first time > runs shown first: >=20 >=20 > USE_TMPFS=3Dno . . . > (Note: The first times had other port-packages to build first.) >=20 > 15.0 poudriere jail: > [00:37:37] [01] [00:12:30] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success >=20 > 14.3 poudriere jail: > [00:28:26] [01] [00:09:38] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success >=20 > Approx. 1.30 time ratio (15.0's 12:30 / 14.3's 9:38) >=20 >=20 > USE_TMPFS=3Dall (no tmpfs black list) . . . >=20 > 14.3 poudriere jail: > [00:09:32] [03] [00:09:24] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success >=20 > 15.0 poudriere jail: > [00:12:45] [03] [00:12:34] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success >=20 > Approx. 1.34 time ratio (15.0's/14.3's) >=20 >=20 > The following also prefixed the poudriere bulk -C command > with: time -l >=20 > 15.0 poudriere jail: > [00:12:36] [04] [00:12:25] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success > . . . > 757.10 real 4613.06 user 251.09 sys > 866580 maximum resident set size > 131 average shared memory size > 27 average unshared data size > 234 average unshared stack size > 31148816 page reclaims > 0 page faults > 0 swaps > 14 block input operations > 36 block output operations > 37061 messages sent > 33671 messages received > 1758 signals received > 143987 voluntary context switches > 167515 involuntary context switches >=20 > 14.3 poudriere jail: > [00:09:23] [01] [00:09:15] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success > . . . > 564.48 real 3449.89 user 204.14 sys > 822900 maximum resident set size > 64692 average shared memory size > 791 average unshared data size > 235 average unshared stack size > 28153497 page reclaims > 0 page faults > 0 swaps > 9 block input operations > 12 block output operations > 34180 messages sent > 31539 messages received > 1758 signals received > 131899 voluntary context switches > 132775 involuntary context switches >=20 > Approx. 1.34 time ratio (15.0's/14.3's) >=20 >=20 > USE_TMPFS=3Dno . . . (again) >=20 > 15.0 poudriere jail: > [00:13:01] [04] [00:12:27] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success > . . . > 784.89 real 4596.42 user 257.12 sys > 866600 maximum resident set size > 128 average shared memory size > 25 average unshared data size > 234 average unshared stack size > 31194466 page reclaims > 2371 page faults > 0 swaps > 3573 block input operations > 6687 block output operations > 37643 messages sent > 33840 messages received > 1756 signals received > 241548 voluntary context switches > 304249 involuntary context switches >=20 > 14.3 poudriere jail: > [00:09:49] [04] [00:09:18] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success > . . . > 592.83 real 3446.18 user 207.61 sys > 823880 maximum resident set size > 64712 average shared memory size > 787 average unshared data size > 236 average unshared stack size > 28176650 page reclaims > 2374 page faults > 0 swaps > 3481 block input operations > 5148 block output operations > 34521 messages sent > 31580 messages received > 1758 signals received > 218881 voluntary context switches > 255193 involuntary context switches >=20 > Approx. 1.34 time ratio (15.0's/14.3's) >=20 >=20 > Only some port-packages have time-ratios > near 1.34. For example, building lang/gcc15 > does not on ampere[13]: closer to 1.1 as > I remember. (For the most part, lang/gcc15 > does most of its own building based on a > smaller amount of clang-built code > to bootstrap.) >=20 >=20 > For reference: >=20 > # poudriere jail -l > JAILNAME VERSION OSVERSION ARCH METHOD = TIMESTAMP PATH > release14-aarch64 14.3-RELEASE-p6 1403000 arm64.aarch64 ftp-archive = 2025-12-09 12:54:06 /usr/local/poudriere/jails/release14-aarch64 > . . . > release-aarch64 15.0-RELEASE 1500068 aarch64 pkgbase = 2025-12-06 11:34:39 /usr/local/poudriere/jails/release-aarch64 > . . . >=20 > # ~/fbsd-based-on-what-commit.sh -C /usr/ports > bb7b77417165 (HEAD -> main, freebsd/main, freebsd/HEAD) www/hurl: = update 7.0.0 -> 7.1.0 > Author: Rodrigo Osorio > Commit: Rodrigo Osorio > CommitDate: 2025-11-28 23:11:52 +0000 > branch: main > merge-base: bb7b774171651eea0dc56376c225fe976231daa5 > merge-base: CommitDate: 2025-11-28 23:11:52 +0000 > n726888 (--first-parent --count for merge-base) >=20 > # uname -apKU > FreeBSD aarch64-main-pbase 16.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT = main-n281922-4872b48b175c GENERIC-NODEBUG arm64 aarch64 1600004 1600004 >=20 > (That last was an official pkgbase distribution.) 14.3-STABLE does not have jemalloc 5.3.0 or libsys but performs like 15.0-RELEASE, not 14.3-RELEASE for the aarch64 devel/cmake-core build tests. But 14.3-STABLE does have: # ldd /usr/local/poudriere/jails/official14-aarch64/usr/bin/cc /usr/local/poudriere/jails/official14-aarch64/usr/bin/cc: libprivateclang.so.19 =3D> /usr/lib/libprivateclang.so.19 = (0x732e0d600000) libprivatellvm.so.19 =3D> /usr/lib/libprivatellvm.so.19 = (0x732e12600000) . . . while 14.3-RELEASE does not. (Another data point is that lang/gcc15 does not have nearly as large of a time-ratio vs. 14.3-RELEASE in the data from ampere[13] .) Details from the Microsoft Dev Kit 2023 experiments . . . I've collected a sequence for a new poudriere jail to compare/contrast with: # poudriere jail -l JAILNAME VERSION OSVERSION ARCH METHOD = TIMESTAMP PATH . . . official14-aarch64 14.3-STABLE 1403506 arm64.aarch64 freebsdci = 2025-12-09 18:24:20 /usr/local/poudriere/jails/official14-aarch64 . . . (ampere[13] do not have examples of recent 14.3-STABLE builds at this = point.) USE_TMPFS=3Dno . . . (Note: The first times had other port-packages to build first. But the system still has the cached the file system data.) stable/14 poudriere jail: [00:36:29] [01] [00:12:31] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success So: 12:31 is far more like 15.0-RELEASE USE_TMPFS=3Dall . . . stable/14 poudriere jail: [00:12:21] [07] [00:12:10] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success . . . 742.70 real 4586.53 user 248.37 sys 864996 maximum resident set size 133 average shared memory size 24 average unshared data size 235 average unshared stack size 30958626 page reclaims 0 page faults 0 swaps 456 block input operations 80 block output operations 35920 messages sent 33223 messages received 1760 signals received 140580 voluntary context switches 164112 involuntary context switches So: 12:10 is far more like 15.0-RELEASE stable/14 poudriere jail (again): [00:12:30] [08] [00:12:19] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success . . . 751.98 real 4604.85 user 251.40 sys 866056 maximum resident set size 125 average shared memory size 21 average unshared data size 235 average unshared stack size 30976603 page reclaims 0 page faults 0 swaps 20 block input operations 11 block output operations 36297 messages sent 33327 messages received 1761 signals received 144213 voluntary context switches 166975 involuntary context switches So: 12:19 is far more like 15.0-RELEASE USE_TMPFS=3Dno . . . (Note: The first times had other port-packages to build first.) stable/14 poudriere jail: [00:13:16] [05] [00:12:49] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success . . . 799.95 real 4626.06 user 261.49 sys 865940 maximum resident set size 134 average shared memory size 24 average unshared data size 235 average unshared stack size 31110419 page reclaims 2380 page faults 0 swaps 3577 block input operations 6262 block output operations 37253 messages sent 33801 messages received 1758 signals received 236161 voluntary context switches 312615 involuntary context switches So: 12:49 is far more like 15.0-RELEASE (Nice to have a known repeatable context to try variations with.) =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Wed Dec 10 06:34:25 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dR5Y01bNjz6K33y for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 06:34:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from omta004.cacentral1.a.cloudfilter.net (omta002.cacentral1.a.cloudfilter.net [3.97.99.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dR5Y00n15z3w21 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 06:34:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from shw-obgw-4001b.ext.cloudfilter.net ([10.228.9.171]) by cmsmtp with ESMTPS id T60uvWXxzPzKyTDmNvUhcS; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 06:34:27 +0000 Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.66.136.217]) by cmsmtp with ESMTPSA id TDmMvIuu2wqACTDmMvrAdS; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 06:34:27 +0000 X-Auth-User: cschuber X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=ZaMQ98VA c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=69391473 a=h7br+8Ma+Xn9xscxy5znUg==:117 a=h7br+8Ma+Xn9xscxy5znUg==:17 a=kDNDo4DDgfmh0OPK:21 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=wP3pNCr1ah4A:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=EkcXrb_YAAAA:8 a=MbzN_Ju4AAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=_DKk3rbfNjsPE3OQtq4A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=LK5xJRSDVpKd5WXXoEvA:22 a=oLe_o8IZZ9kOc1oFlvOR:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy.cwsent.com [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAE9E1CF; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 22:34:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by slippy.cwsent.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 88020295; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 22:34:25 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.8+dev Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Chris cc: freebsd-current Subject: Re: Anyone know how to get FreeBSD on a framework 13 laptop? In-reply-to: <63ebfc5a49b38196ead43b7403f0a12c@bsdforge.com> References: <63ebfc5a49b38196ead43b7403f0a12c@bsdforge.com> Comments: In-reply-to Chris message dated "Tue, 09 Dec 2025 19:29:52 -0800." List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2025 22:34:25 -0800 Message-Id: <20251210063425.88020295@slippy.cwsent.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfNYDrGUDfMuhdNVRHnP1bCicbtkEkWOsApEKGS3nIXTgJGy41LD/rW5wm7pFeFJwf4yC306p+uE4qNVsCxvA/gjF50VggrmvsO5cJL7sTtn7bivx92MB R+sUQGTdGvKQPaqdVe5jxnktzbWix3cqR/BQKbF9g6aKwhIOAdf574cvAxRXFlaOLRBq30zz+8uBKdq83q8QR8NNO0P0YwE5BXiNgp4uaYnGvdSA2zeARcFI Ux34Lw3NlJ7HL3zo/VzHMQ== X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:3.96.0.0/15, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dR5Y00n15z3w21 In message <63ebfc5a49b38196ead43b7403f0a12c@bsdforge.com>, Chris writes: > --=_1fa5024c3e762cfee18202d6a7376470 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; > format=flowed > > OK because I know you're going to ask... :-) > > framework 13 laptop (MSI Crosshair 18 HX AI A2XWGKG-012US)[1],[2] > CPU: Intel Core Ultra 9 Processor 275HX [3] > GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5070 Laptop GPU with NVIDIA Optimus supported [4] > LAN: Realtec RTL???? 2.5Gb > WiFi: Intel Wi-Fi 6E AX211(2*2 ax) > > I'm currently unable to boot any of 13.5,14.n,15.n or 16 on this laptop. > On 13.5 it hangs on sc (syscons(4)?) connect... Add this, kern.vty=vt to your loader.conf. If you look at the sc(4) man page you will notice, Note that the syscons driver is not compatible with systems booted via UEFI(8). Forcing use of syscons on such systems will result in no usable console. As to how I got my Framework 13 (with AMD chipset) installed, I cloned FreeBSD, including all data, from my HP 840, also running in UEFI mode, changing fstab and rc.conf to customize a few things before booting the Framework laptop. (The HP 840 also uses kern.vty=vt.) To boot the Framework from install media, break to the loader prompt and type in, kern.vty=vt Then boot. Install FreeBSD. Finally, make sure kern.vty=vt is in the installed image's loader.conf before rebooting the image. Hope this helps. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org e**(i*pi)+1=0 From nobody Wed Dec 10 06:37:28 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dR5ch5RQvz6K3DK; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 06:37:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo75.interia.pl (smtpo75.interia.pl [217.74.67.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dR5ch315Jz3wyK; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 06:37:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2025 07:37:28 +0100 From: vermaden Subject: Re: Anyone know how to get FreeBSD on a framework 13 laptop? To: Cy Schubert , Chris Cc: freebsd-current , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <20251210063425.88020295@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <63ebfc5a49b38196ead43b7403f0a12c@bsdforge.com> <20251210063425.88020295@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.9 Message-Id: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=dk; t=1765348651; bh=jS3EVSpQ5M53rO9U9Nc7NM31s7/DR1ehoL99GLK6JKk=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=IFbIqoMqStqLTE6Xovf3CHB5tCvAi6nT5aV97TSmOcNA6zH8R19/yQfpBs2WZAn5I HwlIo4g50VIyLa3CWSanejOrtXGovK/Lnpm5XbhBJwN5BsAMQKfBVMJ35Wg+/EzonT egPospkVZdqyupvgXcO6Z4yeqtEpLzMriVVa9eko= X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dR5ch315Jz3wyK One may ask a question ... why 'kern.vty=3Dvt' is not default on FreeBSD 15= .x and 16.x right now? Thanks, vermaden Temat: Re: Anyone know how to get FreeBSD on a framework 13 laptop? Data: 2025-12-10 7:35 Nadawca: "Cy Schubert" <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> Adresat: "Chris" <bsd-lists@bsdforge.com>;=20 DW: "freebsd-current" <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>;=20 >=20 >> In message <63ebfc5a49b38196ead43b7403f0a12c@bsdforge.com>, Chris writes: >> --=3D_1fa5024c3e762cfee18202d6a7376470 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII; >> format=3Dflowed >> >> OK because I know you're going to ask... :-) >> >> framework 13 laptop (MSI Crosshair 18 HX AI A2XWGKG-012US)[1],[2] >> CPU: Intel Core Ultra 9 Processor 275HX [3] >> GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5070 Laptop GPU with NVIDIA Optimus supported [4] >> LAN: Realtec RTL???? 2.5Gb >> WiFi: Intel Wi-Fi 6E AX211(2*2 ax) >> >> I'm currently unable to boot any of 13.5,14.n,15.n or 16 on this laptop. >> On 13.5 it hangs on sc (syscons(4)?) connect... >=20 > Add this, >=20 > kern.vty=3Dvt >=20 > to your loader.conf. >=20 > If you look at the sc(4) man page you will notice, >=20 > Note that the syscons driver is not compatible with systems booted via > UEFI(8). Forcing use of syscons on such systems will result in no usable > console. >=20 > As to how I got my Framework 13 (with AMD chipset) installed, I cloned > FreeBSD, including all data, from my HP 840, also running in UEFI mode,=20 > changing fstab and rc.conf to customize a few things before booting the=20 > Framework laptop. (The HP 840 also uses kern.vty=3Dvt.) >=20 > To boot the Framework from install media, break to the loader prompt and=20 > type in, >=20 > kern.vty=3Dvt >=20 > Then boot. Install FreeBSD. Finally, make sure kern.vty=3Dvt is in the=20 > installed image's loader.conf before rebooting the image. >=20 > Hope this helps. >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Cheers, > Cy Schubert=20 > FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org > NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org >=20 > e**(i*pi)+1=3D0 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Dec 10 07:35:56 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dR6w674ndz6K78j for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 07:36:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (udns.ultimatedns.net [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R12" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dR6w62n1Hz46Rf for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 07:36:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 5BA7Zvxh077450; Tue, 9 Dec 2025 23:36:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=bsdforge.com; s=bsdforge; t=1765352163; x=1765352763; r=y; bh=FyaqP3KpcV90GA0cxw6P2MAO7wqYm0CZatpJIbRiOTw=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=OBFcsXTOOtMqFBKZiVatp3oc8vQsS9R8QZSLWININ7RqhH8PVkJXMAAPRMUMH8kHa 8mU2DldWemtet6WZ/jUkRjUA5ZlimWdken121FnE/jIhdbrvLJHX/J7XD2BWjydw9/ dyFLSYHYX7qnEbCmsKgyUWMsgLKt2PcC5lA8Ad1ousg2s2HhrdhfNCnr7dbd9uEUM8 78669j4KSn8dmUCP0WeP5c6N5bYTfi2bK75+46RbIx61VQw7xhIyR2XCcqshBDt8Dg qhU6J+5ld6PKoVoEZgTodKiRtWq/1MZ5+ptWA7pXoXEUy6OCx7+mhxCgS7GQOKUBNL A3oKIBEqDKPHA== List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2025 23:35:56 -0800 From: Chris To: Cy Schubert Cc: freebsd-current Subject: Re: Anyone know how to get FreeBSD on a framework 13 laptop? In-Reply-To: <20251210063425.88020295@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <63ebfc5a49b38196ead43b7403f0a12c@bsdforge.com> <20251210063425.88020295@slippy.cwsent.com> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_f06c353922a5a0a20d3d4c19c8527625" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dR6w62n1Hz46Rf --=_f06c353922a5a0a20d3d4c19c8527625 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On 2025-12-09 22:34, Cy Schubert wrote: > In message <63ebfc5a49b38196ead43b7403f0a12c@bsdforge.com>, Chris writes: >> --=_1fa5024c3e762cfee18202d6a7376470 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; >> format=flowed >> >> OK because I know you're going to ask... :-) >> >> framework 13 laptop (MSI Crosshair 18 HX AI A2XWGKG-012US)[1],[2] >> CPU: Intel Core Ultra 9 Processor 275HX [3] >> GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5070 Laptop GPU with NVIDIA Optimus supported [4] >> LAN: Realtec RTL???? 2.5Gb >> WiFi: Intel Wi-Fi 6E AX211(2*2 ax) >> >> I'm currently unable to boot any of 13.5,14.n,15.n or 16 on this laptop. >> On 13.5 it hangs on sc (syscons(4)?) connect... > > Add this, > > kern.vty=vt > > to your loader.conf. Really appreciate your taking the time to reply, Cy. Just tried this. But same results. FWIW, I only saw the syscons message on 13.5. I've since made a 16-CURRENT from the kernel,base and lib32 archives that were on ftp.freebsd.org (now missing). > > If you look at the sc(4) man page you will notice, I know. :) > As to how I got my Framework 13 (with AMD chipset) installed, I cloned > FreeBSD, including all data, from my HP 840, also running in UEFI mode, > changing fstab and rc.conf to customize a few things before booting the > Framework laptop. (The HP 840 also uses kern.vty=vt.) Close to what I did to get 16 on my framework 12. All the right bits weren't yet available at that time. All good now tho. This is where I land now (on 16): Event timer "HPET" frequency 19200000Hz quality 350 Event timer "HPET1" freq... ... Event timer "HPET7" freq... atrtc1: on acpi0 atrtc1: Warning: Couldn't map I/O. Just realized I might find some clues in dmesg(1) on my framework 12. This is from the same area as above (yep same Warning message on my framework 12): atrtc1: on acpi0 atrtc1: Warning: Couldn't map I/O. atrtc1: registered as a time-of-day clock, resolution 1.000000s ioapic0: routing intpin 8 (ISA IRQ 8) to lapic 18 vector 49 ioapic0: routing intpin 8 (ISA IRQ 8) to lapic 0 vector 49 Event timer "RTC" frequency 32768 Hz quality 0 attimer0: port 0x40-0x43,0x50-0x53 irq 0 on acpi0 Thoughts? Thanks again! > To boot the Framework from install media, break to the loader prompt and > type in, > > kern.vty=vt > > Then boot. Install FreeBSD. Finally, make sure kern.vty=vt is in the > installed image's loader.conf before rebooting the image. > > Hope this helps. --Chris -- There is no such place as the internet --=_f06c353922a5a0a20d3d4c19c8527625 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xE512722F.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xE512722F.asc; size=3074 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGf/G0IBCADARuJc6IcwOe3jv7dQsP1X/EIHvCFExPbTmlMNFMXbMMccQUnV o8ayEn+wmTvPhw7uL3PDk7DQs16W1sN2b8UMFc804cVWNGtoG3rA+Np+TFEYlXJx eh5Q42VHptkuwzHKl+q2utkpRlS7uHyfjsInQAoHxLyi/wrsaZTHHhDbLLhJ5Ez0 arohQ2Q1w0M5e9rW8Fy5rpC7RpC6uO1SZMxcbdqURI/BBqxbiD1iW62cDWFkfFX+ dtaEXghFV7BIBMDSrgIunGoEfdMZgXys7O6bPWn8z0cuOZIPj4HrjoCYARyQ+sdc rjz/k06SLM/UvEZDorJhT4DbYrwMNvaPWJiPABEBAAG0HkNocmlzIDxic2QtbGlz dHNAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBNQQQAQgAHwUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgEC GQECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci8bSwf/fK3QcTYXRMrv82HIp4SiGCSD7/bRmyWr ipv2vzknGFHxPBN4AEWIqF/U4j5oDXaodyU6xsy59Z47/lgbyzyZiVR6nmJVgZVf el/EgwnLt7ZuYGLLEhIN2pd9itJkB8PMPZrUHMWgIw8BxX5YFYGuyiNe9pGn0Coj 98t/v3fouhqksH+BpB4TBHJBBDSxSiMm66VTJX4Xcnpf0ZnQVP4GBuoyodnFBfdI wqftPLESsCC08lUhD2j7v2NRWwMi/q3ed8D6VCKPImBByYnBZL5gu56K5bwqaQfN itu06APuIYnG71qxgn1EPO63lovWP5NZGgOKvzs3K+JfPF79BiOUFbQjQ2hyaXMg PG1haWxvcEBocmNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zLm5ldD6JATEEEAEIABwFAmf/G0IGCwkH CAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvBH8H9RGwzZuU6+zvH1WjQa97 yWpEt9rC+BIBJThev2Cpls2LqBqIeIQVZPnyLAZWgFaiezL6+xbvcNt6OnfidIYa x8iRwCMC6/Bs8H2Wef9qfGxXi+jHPLYQk3juiZVmBhIK6FJZkzaW4wSiawofwzbp zqNxO8dZ0j4foaJZrNi8iqsvKjiiHoSFaJtumIThAeydI18CNLeFaS53sk5nad6I wCYeFKmJ/22dMP7DOFEgyG1iNYgY+AGREMkEsBiLpqYjJ5asK+1UdUy/TRly1hOt HHxCiX0Fh9ZYM2vLIj7sq4LKaMPGeYC3qTqBYugVeyz7LkiI2ft/BKveA5JxuYKk ZrQiQ2hyaXMgPG5hbm9nQGhyY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMubmV0PokBMgQQAQgAHAUC Z/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci+4Bwf8D0Ogk2/X ud/CsAgHozwzKPqfesL5SRWM14hLnU9/EHoplnZgNexbVY1wXIi2FYPo5cve9QxW Nmt3S3UTF9j2fGqv0wmeHv3EqogFUHnftLyWpbeTPOFDMIQp/BOD6ygfeXxXWxRT L6zvUkSrDtHvkQHPWGRxwP+ihWjpw9AQR/R4/qAuTAZZM0O7UnJEo4mWXatl+utF wegG2giwFTTxfF+1rMpFtUDjYCpRQ6ZmE+gC1mHUMoH7GJMQv12DbqwKrxtwGfd0 AJNO3ZDnxl24BmIfl1YqQGZQ5iIH7At4YItESbU45hoNNsG9oDrsil78EUCAtXHd UPScj+eXaeAkgrQfQ2hyaXMgPHBvcnRtYXN0ZXJAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBMgQQ AQgAHAUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci9o7Af+ Lwu5hJlI5HZNGwAll7QTIFZVW+y4OEg+amhxTDGbAAqlnSIkHC1KgkmIOOrThme3 kTFCqfIIsuP73yKxHq6kRG0zH5/7asAPNAUOfzD7B2o/gMyuTRKyG5r9f3UmACr4 6qvtFhIwROXr6+NNT2IKg3l0/8F58A0N/TR8D2PTHeo4x6jYcZQDCrCy7BAdk3cu V16k4z/1UzRa07b5McezbWL20cIaZ+dqNcCjKZpzPlTyTCGgrNNtaDpNVhoWUKMB YNcKql+tfC1IpX8l+IU6OBKcDKMkQojvO1QrZqY8MDJGo8jq/CtotQ8+IpAai3Bx dQEsxrxlcKTR4rUqvd8VGbkBDQRn/xtCAQgAv5Nv/aQN72xsLik+K73PJwpUmyhu vnI6stM6dSecylXVHjZ7C4n/m0eQEeQCl+9lByHR9N8H+WS3DtAd4pmciiIxRQLA JZiuaLYcy9ziy1h7130VoR7hhJHzo9FIhWkTGlCDX3egUZrYhMiwFUO8lNltLB8o TBvIrMSsnUzawtQjq/otv0Jf+oBPbG+gIYnAm7w6r86n/l+eVxf5eEoS7wV0DJfp b2jE5zWErWk8I/tq4e8T+1VQeVQR6wz+NrUCSxkPkpNAm19AFUHOk//yvMGWVlDW F6gr3ErN2a0w/kZ0lz3Msxsb87QT+MnJf/T3cuEqdTIoSk74BfNEAdMohQARAQAB iQEfBBgBCAAJBQJn/xtCAhsMAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvyvIH/26zytSVNDaxtprg7XtX LerIWf9RyVx8omCw/lXKRCcgkfwD7QR+nSZ0thWOGMpcnivjuReeVRkz/webUF47 BXJ/Tge07nrxdtyTIHBbp35fPIriaKaII6YWc2Ufdxwv+cD8PADS6gQWAlgrWLmn VmYtyHs4kwtiPZyUyuBdWnZal2GyYY0WVwYjvbk95eInwOaIdoTjesJ7ZhUFu155 r4hh9GlvM0uv8WJ5Mw9wvHa5fIM205I5g0IWC7yvTwwwKHlV4JQQOqMwfv569OEl 1GKqA12nSVziB1+UV+I0NqOABWi/MOi+IySPzYP+XgdPfRNx4vmoHYZwWOQ3t4Jd TEM= =oj6y -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --=_f06c353922a5a0a20d3d4c19c8527625-- From nobody Wed Dec 10 08:52:38 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dR8cg2TjPz6KC2M for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 08:52:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dR8cf3Q3Yz3M0n for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 08:52:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from delta.joker.local (124-18-6-240.area1c.commufa.jp [124.18.6.240]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.18.1/8.17.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 5BA8qcdV077483; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 17:52:40 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dec.sakura.ne.jp; s=s2405; t=1765356761; bh=tjugyMPeHrUaLJ3R+WIj8LWYyZ2fy88LSJ1pwiGfTqw=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=ZX+SfjV6KbsmyjwxGbWpxdsTvH/0Wr3bblPq+Nj8WEHZD6xWupzuA9IaCoZya+aNx Qtwn8StMUMktzwHUMNAnfKGjuQGbzEL3M5NL6XnDO5rHS04xO48Pt4r6yRg0V7hZm2 vFx1oNDch8u2G5mE5q71MU8Z3gbImy2Afw6ozLW8= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2025 17:52:38 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: Chris Cc: Cy Schubert , freebsd-current Subject: Re: Anyone know how to get FreeBSD on a framework 13 laptop? Message-Id: <20251210175238.d05231f6ed57a5c768c442fb@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: <63ebfc5a49b38196ead43b7403f0a12c@bsdforge.com> <20251210063425.88020295@slippy.cwsent.com> Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd15.0) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dR8cf3Q3Yz3M0n On Tue, 09 Dec 2025 23:35:56 -0800 Chris wrote: > On 2025-12-09 22:34, Cy Schubert wrote: > > In message <63ebfc5a49b38196ead43b7403f0a12c@bsdforge.com>, Chris writes: > >> --=_1fa5024c3e762cfee18202d6a7376470 > >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; > >> format=flowed > >> > >> OK because I know you're going to ask... :-) > >> > >> framework 13 laptop (MSI Crosshair 18 HX AI A2XWGKG-012US)[1],[2] > >> CPU: Intel Core Ultra 9 Processor 275HX [3] > >> GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5070 Laptop GPU with NVIDIA Optimus supported [4] > >> LAN: Realtec RTL???? 2.5Gb > >> WiFi: Intel Wi-Fi 6E AX211(2*2 ax) > >> > >> I'm currently unable to boot any of 13.5,14.n,15.n or 16 on this laptop. > >> On 13.5 it hangs on sc (syscons(4)?) connect... > > > > Add this, > > > > kern.vty=vt > > > > to your loader.conf. > Really appreciate your taking the time to reply, Cy. > Just tried this. But same results. FWIW, I only saw the syscons message > on 13.5. I've since made a 16-CURRENT from the kernel,base and lib32 archives > that were on ftp.freebsd.org (now missing). > > > > If you look at the sc(4) man page you will notice, > I know. :) > > > As to how I got my Framework 13 (with AMD chipset) installed, I cloned > > FreeBSD, including all data, from my HP 840, also running in UEFI mode, > > changing fstab and rc.conf to customize a few things before booting the > > Framework laptop. (The HP 840 also uses kern.vty=vt.) > Close to what I did to get 16 on my framework 12. All the right bits weren't > yet available at that time. All good now tho. > > This is where I land now (on 16): > Event timer "HPET" frequency 19200000Hz quality 350 > Event timer "HPET1" freq... > ... > Event timer "HPET7" freq... > atrtc1: on acpi0 > atrtc1: Warning: Couldn't map I/O. > > Just realized I might find some clues in dmesg(1) on my framework 12. > This is from the same area as above (yep same Warning message on my framework > 12): > > atrtc1: on acpi0 > atrtc1: Warning: Couldn't map I/O. > atrtc1: registered as a time-of-day clock, resolution 1.000000s > ioapic0: routing intpin 8 (ISA IRQ 8) to lapic 18 vector 49 > ioapic0: routing intpin 8 (ISA IRQ 8) to lapic 0 vector 49 > Event timer "RTC" frequency 32768 Hz quality 0 > attimer0: port 0x40-0x43,0x50-0x53 irq 0 on acpi0 > > Thoughts? > > Thanks again! > > > To boot the Framework from install media, break to the loader prompt and > > type in, > > > > kern.vty=vt > > > > Then boot. Install FreeBSD. Finally, make sure kern.vty=vt is in the > > installed image's loader.conf before rebooting the image. > > > > Hope this helps. > > --Chris > > -- > There is no such place as the internet Maybe these in /boot/loader.conf help? hint.uart.0.disabled=1 hint.uart.1.disabled=1 Info from: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/framework-16-ryzen-9-7940hs-and-freebsd-14-0-release.92421/#post-651306 Regards. -- Tomoaki AOKI From nobody Wed Dec 10 08:58:10 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dR8ky5fNsz6KDYH; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 08:58:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dR8ky1xqVz3PQK; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 08:58:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from delta.joker.local (124-18-6-240.area1c.commufa.jp [124.18.6.240]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.18.1/8.17.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 5BA8wARn078266; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 17:58:10 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dec.sakura.ne.jp; s=s2405; t=1765357091; bh=vw6+Cjk2ConT1UlzNrZGW33WrTjg5A6SDqDcepw98UY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Reply-To; b=fGgW5T0s7/cbEKxucBMSU/ExNLEMCsvCFO3y6bXMd8aLMrIlbUFvVxuD/8MxUnR9/ YBlxu4K+FQfF4KJ7iah5/QMS2VrL90cNuAUEEvOUkYoUl9pz8IzIIKFn2sdUes1Ax2 zM/46PtqvrnVCi8YtpOsrkPDEwllu09MK4yLbygo= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2025 17:58:10 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: vermaden Cc: Cy Schubert , Chris , freebsd-current , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Anyone know how to get FreeBSD on a framework 13 laptop? Message-Id: <20251210175810.85d9776fb1ecee5ae8a765e2@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: <63ebfc5a49b38196ead43b7403f0a12c@bsdforge.com> <20251210063425.88020295@slippy.cwsent.com> Reply-To: junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd15.0) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dR8ky1xqVz3PQK On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 07:37:28 +0100 vermaden wrote: > One may ask a question ... why 'kern.vty=vt' is not default on FreeBSD 15.x and 16.x right now? I believe it's already the default for UEFI boots, as UEFI without CSM cannot support kern.vty=sc, and CSM is usually disabled on UEFI boot. Some motherboards could support such a config, though, not standard. For legacy BIOS boot, if things does NOT changed after the last time I've checked years ago, defaulted kern.vty=sc and can be overridden to vt via /boot/loader.conf. Regards. > Thanks, > vermaden > > > > Temat: Re: Anyone know how to get FreeBSD on a framework 13 laptop? > Data: 2025-12-10 7:35 > Nadawca: "Cy Schubert" <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> > Adresat: "Chris" <bsd-lists@bsdforge.com>; > DW: "freebsd-current" <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>; > > > > >> In message > <63ebfc5a49b38196ead43b7403f0a12c@bsdforge.com>, Chris writes: > >> --=_1fa5024c3e762cfee18202d6a7376470 > >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; > >> format=flowed > >> > >> OK because I know you're going to ask... :-) > >> > >> framework 13 laptop (MSI Crosshair 18 HX AI A2XWGKG-012US)[1],[2] > >> CPU: Intel Core Ultra 9 Processor 275HX [3] > >> GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5070 Laptop GPU with NVIDIA Optimus > supported [4] > >> LAN: Realtec RTL???? 2.5Gb > >> WiFi: Intel Wi-Fi 6E AX211(2*2 ax) > >> > >> I'm currently unable to boot any of 13.5,14.n,15.n or 16 on this > laptop. > >> On 13.5 it hangs on sc (syscons(4)?) connect... > > > > Add this, > > > > kern.vty=vt > > > > to your loader.conf. > > > > If you look at the sc(4) man page you will notice, > > > > Note that the syscons driver is not compatible with systems booted > via > > UEFI(8). Forcing use of syscons on such systems will result in no > usable > > console. > > > > As to how I got my Framework 13 (with AMD chipset) installed, I cloned > > > FreeBSD, including all data, from my HP 840, also running in UEFI > mode, > > changing fstab and rc.conf to customize a few things before booting > the > > Framework laptop. (The HP 840 also uses kern.vty=vt.) > > > > To boot the Framework from install media, break to the loader prompt > and > > type in, > > > > kern.vty=vt > > > > Then boot. Install FreeBSD. Finally, make sure kern.vty=vt is in the > > installed image's loader.conf before rebooting the image. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > -- > > Cheers, > > Cy Schubert > > FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org > > NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org > > > > e**(i*pi)+1=0 -- Tomoaki AOKI From nobody Wed Dec 10 12:26:56 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dRFMq2TG9z6KV7j for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 12:27:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from comdir@infonix.info) Received: from forward501a.mail.yandex.net (forward501a.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c0e:500:1:45:d181:d501]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dRFMp67QVz3vts for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 12:27:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from comdir@infonix.info) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from mail-nwsmtp-mxback-production-main-57.vla.yp-c.yandex.net (mail-nwsmtp-mxback-production-main-57.vla.yp-c.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c2b:199:0:640:ce70:0]) by forward501a.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTPS id 642E4819D0; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 15:26:57 +0300 (MSK) Received: from mail.yandex.ru (2a02:6b8:c0d:409:0:640:4c1b:0 [2a02:6b8:c0d:409:0:640:4c1b:0]) by mail-nwsmtp-mxback-production-main-57.vla.yp-c.yandex.net (mxback/Yandex) with HTTPS id sQNK6H4xkOs0-8lwOEc3E; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 15:26:56 +0300 X-Yandex-Fwd: 1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infonix.info; s=mail; t=1765369616; bh=XfGO4dUaTgaCwBZsbj+i9wKWWOXF1LbMwssu9ZX+7vk=; h=Message-Id:References:Date:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:From; b=4ilJm9bdDh72GHJTQl6Z4akwioh4kEdth98idXbksAL1VYybhOjIGwAKQJoEpHpHY czVWsuuBvGR2yMhiJuFkZrVbW4ofqgWz0EJthx7oyPM1bpIkNHXXjLefhOcRduqqmp 4PZLzLqMcPlSiMBj6B8261USYOvA4U3HFk/tRXLE= Received: by mail-sendbernar-production-main-38.vla.yp-c.yandex.net (sendbernar/Yandex) with HTTPS id b9583728f1a4459a9d7a9e5ab187125f; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 15:26:56 +0300 From: =?utf-8?B?0JvQtdC+0L3QuNC0INCT0L3QtdC30LTQuNC70L7Qsg==?= To: S. Ross Gohlke , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" In-Reply-To: References: <11071764173299@mail.yandex.ru> <200391764598041@mail.yandex.ru> <3644111764683408@mail.yandex.ru> <207781764767464@mail.yandex.ru> <923f73e9-181e-4afa-9686-364fcab88b34@bisd.ro> <48dcc1b8-0157-46c2-803c-2b217a56bf7b@bisd.ro> <115011765277810@mail.yandex.ru> Subject: Re: operation not supported Wayland List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Yamail [ http://yandex.ru ] 5.0 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2025 15:26:56 +0300 Message-Id: <33091765368936@mail.yandex.ru> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13238, ipnet:2a02:6b8::/32, country:RU] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dRFMp67QVz3vts PGRpdj5XZWxsLCBldmVyeXRoaW5nIGZlbGwgaW50byBwbGFjZSAtIGhhcmR3YXJlIGFjY2VsZXJh dGlvbiBpbiB3YXlsYW5kIHN0b3BwZWQgd29ya2luZyBvbiBjb3JlcyBidWlsdCBhZnRlciBhYm91 dCBOb3ZlbWJlciAyNC4gQWxhY3JpdHR5IGRlZmluaXRlbHkgdXNlcyBoYXJkd2FyZSBhY2NlbGVy YXRpb24gKG1vc3QgbGlrZWx5IE9wZW5HTCkgb2YgRmlyZWZveCB0b28uIE5vdyB0aGUgY29vbCBz cGVjaWFsaXN0cyBoYXZlIHRvIGdldCBpbnZvbHZlZCBhbmQgZml4IGV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcpIEkgZm91 bmQgYW5kIGluc3RhbGxlZCB0aGUgRnJlZUJTRC1rZXJuZWwtZ2VuZXJpYy0xNiBwYWNrYWdlLnNu YXAyMDI1MTExMDEwMDExOCBhbmQgZXZlcnl0aGluZyB3b3JrZWQgYXMgYmVmb3JlLiBOb3cgaXQg bXVzdCBiZSBmcm96ZW4gc28gdGhhdCBpdCBpcyBub3QgdXBkYXRlZC48L2Rpdj48ZGl2PlNwZWNp YWwgdGhhbmtzIHRvIFJvc3MsIGFwcGFyZW50bHkgb25seSB0aGUgdHdvIG9mIHVzIHdpbGwgdXNl IFdheWxhbmQgb24gRnJlZUJTRCkpIMKgPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5CeSB0aGUgd2F5LCBSb3NzLCBjb3Vs ZCB5b3UgdHJ5IGluc3RhbGxpbmcgYWxhY3JpdHR5PyBUbyByZXBlYXQgdGhlIGJ1Zy48L2Rpdj48 ZGl2PkxldCBtZSByZW1pbmQgeW91IHRoYXQgSSB3YXMgYWJsZSB0byByZXBlYXQgdGhpcyBlcnJv ciBvbiB0d28gbW90aGVyYm9hcmRzIHdpdGggaW50ZWwgZWFybHkgZ2VuZXJhdGlvbnMgKGk5MTVr bXMpLCB3aXRoIGFuIGV4dGVybmFsIGdyYXBoaWNzIGNhcmQgKHJhZGVvbmttcykgYW5kIG9uIGEg bW90aGVyYm9hcmQgd2l0aCBSeXplbiAzKGFtZGdwdSk8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PsKgPC9kaXY+PGRpdj4t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5UbyB3aG9tOiBmcmVlYnNkLWN1cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJz ZC5vcmcgKGZyZWVic2QtY3VycmVudEBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZyApOzwvZGl2PjxkaXY+U3ViamVjdDog b3BlcmF0aW9uIG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0ZWQgYnkgV2F5bGFuZDs8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PjA5LjEyLjIwMjUs IDE5OjA1LCAiUy4gUm9zcyBHb2hsa2UiICZsdDtyb3NzQGJpc2Qucm8mZ3Q7OjwvZGl2PjxibG9j a3F1b3RlPjxwPsKgPC9wPjxkaXY+T24gMTIvOS8yNSAwNTowNCwgTGVvbmlkIEduZXpkaWxvdiB3 cm90ZTo8L2Rpdj48YmxvY2txdW90ZT48ZGl2PlNvISBJIGhhdmUgZG9uZSByZXNlYXJjaCBhbmQg aW52ZXN0aWdhdGlvbikpIEkgZm91bmQgb3V0IHRoYXQgdGhlIHN5c3RlbSBpbnN0YWxsZWQgZnJv bSB0aGUgaW1hZ2UgKGRhdGUgMjAyNTExMTApIHJ1bnMgYWxsIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucyBpbiB3YXls YW5kLiDCoEkgY2hlY2tlZCBvbiA0IG1vdGhlcmJvYXJkcyB3aXRoIGk5MTVrbXMgKGthYnkgbGFr ZSBhbmQgc29tZSBvdGhlciBsYWtlKSkpIHJhZGVvbmttcyBhbmQgYW1kZ3B1LiBTdGFydGluZyBm cm9tIDIwMjUxMTI0IC0gIm9wZXJhdGlvbiBub3Qgc3VwcG9ydGVkIi4gb24gYW55IGhhcmR3YXJl ISBZb3UganVzdCB1cGRhdGUgdGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgc3lzdGVtIGFuZCBnZXQgYSBub24td29ya2lu ZyBmaXJlZm94LCBmb3IgZXhhbXBsZS4gKEluIGdlbmVyYWwsIG1vc3Qgb2YgdGhlIHNvZnR3YXJl IGRvZXMgbm90IHdvcmssIGJ1dCB0aGUgY29tcG9zZXJzIHRoZW1zZWx2ZXMgZG8pLjwvZGl2Pjxk aXY+SXQncyB0aGUgc2FtZSBpbiAxNS1TdGFibGUuPC9kaXY+PGRpdj48ZGl2PlMuIFJvc3MgR29o bGtlIC0gY291bGQgeW91IHVwZ3JhZGUgdGhlIHN5c3RlbSBhbmQgZ2l2ZSBpdCBhIHRyeT88L2Rp dj48L2Rpdj48L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+PHA+SSB1cGdyYWRlZCBmcm9tIDIwMjUxMTA2IHRvIDIwMjUx MjA0IGFuZCBJIGRpZCBydW4gaW50byBhIHByb2JsZW0gLS0gSSB3YXMgZ29pbmcgdG8gdHJ5IDIw MjUxMjA1IGJlZm9yZSBJIHJlcG9ydGVkIGFueXRoaW5nLCBidXQgbm90IHRoZXJlIHlldC48L3A+ PHA+QWZ0ZXIgdXBncmFkZSwgRmlyZWZveCAoYW5kIFRodW5kZXJiaXJkKSByZWZ1c2VkIHRvIGxh dW5jaCBmcm9tIHRoZSBtZW51LiBJbiBhIHBhbmljLCBJIGNvbXBpbGVkIEZpcmVmb3ggZnJvbSBw b3J0cyBhbmQgZ290IHRoZSBzYW1lIHJlc3VsdCwgYnV0IHRoaXMgdGltZSBJIHRyaWVkIHJ1bm5p bmcgaXQgYSBzZWNvbmQgdGltZSBkaXJlY3RseSBmcm9tIHRoZSB0ZXJtaW5hbCBhbmQgaXQgZ2F2 ZSBtZSBhIGRpYWxvZyB3aW5kb3cgb2ZmZXJpbmcgdG8gbGF1bmNoIGluIFNhZmUgTW9kZSwgd2hp Y2ggd29ya2VkLiBTYWZlIE1vZGUgZGlzYWJsZXMgYWxsIGV4dGVuc2lvbnMsIGhhcmR3YXJlIGFj Y2VsZXJhdGlvbiBhbmQgc29tZXRoaW5nIGVsc2UuPC9wPjxwPk15IGV4dGVuc2lvbnMgd2VyZSBm aW5lLCBidXQgSSBoYWQgdG8gZGlzYWJsZSBoYXJkd2FyZSBhY2NlbGVyYXRpb24gdG8gZ2V0IEZp cmVmb3ggdG8gbGF1bmNoIG5vcm1hbGx5OjwvcD48cD5TZXR0aW5ncyAmZ3Q7IEdlbmVyYWwgJmd0 OyBQZXJmb3JtYW5jZTwvcD48cD7CoCDCoCBVbmNoZWNrICJVc2UgcmVjb21tZW5kZWQgcGVyZm9y bWFuY2Ugc2V0dGluZ3MiPC9wPjxwPsKgIMKgIMKgIMKgIFVuY2hlY2sgIlVzZSBoYXJkd2FyZSBh Y2NlbGVyYXRpb24gd2hlbiBhdmFpbGFibGUiPC9wPjxwPkkgaGF2ZSBuZXZlciBzZWVuIHRoaXMg c2V0dGluZywgSSBoYXZlIG5ldmVyIHVzZWQgdGhpcyBzZXR0aW5nLCBJIGRvbid0IGtub3cgaWYg dGhpcyBpcyBkdWUgdG8gYSBjaGFuZ2UgaW4gRnJlZUJTRCBvciBGaXJlZm94IG9yIGJvdGguPC9w PjxwPkl0IHdhcyB0aGUgc2FtZSBzdG9yeSB3aXRoIFRodW5kZXJiaXJkLCBidXQgVGh1bmRlcmJp cmQgZGlkIG5vdCBwcmVlbXB0aXZlbHkgcHJvdmlkZSBhIFNhZmUgTW9kZSBkaWFsb2cgd2hlbiBy dW4gZnJvbSB0aGUgdGVybWluYWwuIEkgaGFkIHRvIHJ1biAidGh1bmRlcmJpcmQgLS1zYWZlLW1v ZGUiIHRvIG9wZW4gaXQgc28gSSBjb3VsZCBkaXNhYmxlIGhhcmR3YXJlIGFjY2VsZXJhdGlvbi48 L3A+PHA+U29tZSBiYWNrZ3JvdW5kIG9uIG15IHN5c3RlbTogTGVub3ZvIFRoaW5rUGFkIEUxNCwg SW50ZWwgQ29yZSBpNS0xMTM1Rzc8L3A+PHA+PGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOnZnYXBjaTBAcGNpMCIg cmVsPSJub29wZW5lciBub3JlZmVycmVyIj52Z2FwY2kwQHBjaTA8L2E+OjA6MjowOsKgIMKgIMKg Y2xhc3M9MHgwMzAwMDAgcmV2PTB4MDEgaGRyPTB4MDAgdmVuZG9yPTB4ODA4NiBkZXZpY2U9MHg5 YTQ5IHN1YnZlbmRvcj0weDE3YWEgc3ViZGV2aWNlPTB4NTA4ODxiciAvPsKgIMKgIHZlbmRvcsKg IMKgIMKgPSAnSW50ZWwgQ29ycG9yYXRpb24nPGJyIC8+wqAgwqAgZGV2aWNlwqAgwqAgwqA9ICdU aWdlckxha2UtTFAgR1QyIFtJcmlzIFhlIEdyYXBoaWNzXSc8YnIgLz7CoCDCoCBjbGFzc8KgIMKg IMKgID0gZGlzcGxheTxiciAvPsKgIMKgIHN1YmNsYXNzwqAgwqA9IFZHQTwvcD48cD5BY2NvcmRp bmcgdG8gTGVub3ZvLCBoZXJlOjwvcD48cD48YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczovL3BzcmVmLmxlbm92by5j b20vc3lzcG9vbC9TeXMvUERGL1RoaW5rUGFkL1RoaW5rUGFkX0UxNF9HZW5fMl9JbnRlbC9UaGlu a1BhZF9FMTRfR2VuXzJfSW50ZWxfU3BlYy5wZGYiIHJlbD0ibm9vcGVuZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJlciI+ aHR0cHM6Ly9wc3JlZi5sZW5vdm8uY29tL3N5c3Bvb2wvU3lzL1BERi9UaGlua1BhZC9UaGlua1Bh ZF9FMTRfR2VuXzJfSW50ZWwvVGhpbmtQYWRfRTE0X0dlbl8yX0ludGVsX1NwZWMucGRmPC9hPjwv cD48cD7CoCDCoCBJbnRlbCBJcmlzIFhlIEdyYXBoaWNzIGNhcGFiaWxpdHkgcmVxdWlyZXMgc3lz dGVtIHRvIGJlIGNvbmZpZ3VyZWQgd2l0aCBkdWFsLWNoYW5uZWwgbWVtb3J5LiBPbiB0aGUgc3lz dGVtIHdpdGggc2luZ2xlLWNoYW5uZWwgbWVtb3J5LCBJbnRlbCBJcmlzIFhlIEdyYXBoaWNzIHdp bGwgZnVuY3Rpb24gYXMgSW50ZWwgVUhEIEdyYXBoaWNzPC9wPjxwPlNpbmNlIEUxNCBvbmx5IGhh cyBvbmUgbWVtb3J5IHNsb3QsIEkgbXVzdCBiZSBjb25zaWduZWQgdG8gVUhEIEdyYXBoaWNzLCBi dXQgSSBoYXZlIG5vIGNsdWUgYXMgdG8gdGhlIGltcGxpY2F0aW9ucy48L3A+PHA+VGhlIGZpbmFs IGltcG9ydGFudCBkZXRhaWwgaXMgdGhhdCBJIHJlY2VudGx5IHVwZ3JhZGVkIGZyb20gMTZHQiB0 byAzMkdCICh1c2VkKSBSQU0sIGFmdGVyIHVwZ3JhZGUgdG8gMjAyNTExMDYgYnV0IGJlZm9yZSB1 cGdyYWRlIHRvIDIwMjUxMjA0LjwvcD48cD5SZWdhcmRzLDwvcD48cD5Sb3NzPC9wPjxibG9ja3F1 b3RlPjxkaXY+LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLTwvZGl2PjxkaXY+VG8gd2hvbTogPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFp bHRvOmZyZWVic2QtY3VycmVudEBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZyIgcmVsPSJub29wZW5lciBub3JlZmVycmVy Ij5mcmVlYnNkLWN1cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc8L2E+ICg8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86ZnJlZWJz ZC1jdXJyZW50QGZyZWVic2Qub3JnIiByZWw9Im5vb3BlbmVyIG5vcmVmZXJyZXIiPmZyZWVic2Qt Y3VycmVudEBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZzwvYT4gKTs8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PlN1YmplY3Q6IG9wZXJhdGlvbiBu b3Qgc3VwcG9ydGVkIGJ5IFdheWxhbmQ7PC9kaXY+PGRpdj4wNC4xMi4yMDI1LCAxNjo1MSwgIlMu IFJvc3MgR29obGtlIiA8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86cm9zc0BiaXNkLnJvIiByZWw9Im5vb3BlbmVy IG5vcmVmZXJyZXIiPiZsdDtyb3NzQGJpc2Qucm8mZ3Q7PC9hPjo8L2Rpdj48YmxvY2txdW90ZT48 cD7CoDwvcD48ZGl2Pk9uIDEyLzQvMjUgMDc6MjYsIFMuIFJvc3MgR29obGtlIHdyb3RlOjwvZGl2 PjxibG9ja3F1b3RlPjxkaXY+T24gMTIvMy8yNSAwNzoyMywgTGVvbmlkIEduZXpkaWxvdiB3cm90 ZTo8L2Rpdj48YmxvY2txdW90ZT48ZGl2PllvdSB3b24ndCBiZWxpZXZlIGl0IC0gSSBpbnN0YWxs ZWQgMTUuMC1TVEFCTEUgYW5kIHRoZSBzYW1lIHRoaW5nIGhhcHBlbmVkIGFnYWluLiBJJ20gYWxy ZWFkeSBzdGFydGluZyB0byB0aGluayBpdCdzIHRoZSBjb21wdXRlciBoYXJkd2FyZS4gQWx0aG91 Z2ggaXQgd29ya2VkIHVudGlsIDExLzI0LzIwMjUuPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5HUFUtZmlybXdhcmUtaW50 ZWwta21vZC1nZW1pbmlsYWtlIGFuZCBpOTE1X2ttcyBhcmUgdXNlZCAoZGlmZmVyZW50IHZlcnNp b25zLCBsYXRlc3QsIDYxLCA1MTUpPC9kaXY+PGRpdj4tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tPC9kaXY+PGRp dj5UbzogUy4gUm9zcyBHb2hsa2UgKDxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpyb3NzQGJpc2Qucm8iIHJlbD0i bm9vcGVuZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJlciI+cm9zc0BiaXNkLnJvPC9hPiApLCA8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86 ZnJlZWJzZC1jdXJyZW50QGZyZWVic2Qub3JnIiByZWw9Im5vb3BlbmVyIG5vcmVmZXJyZXIiPmZy ZWVic2QtY3VycmVudEBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZzwvYT4gKDxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpmcmVlYnNkLWN1 cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmciIHJlbD0ibm9vcGVuZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJlciI+ZnJlZWJzZC1jdXJy ZW50QGZyZWVic2Qub3JnPC9hPiApOzwvZGl2PjxkaXY+U3ViamVjdDogb3BlcmF0aW9uIG5vdCBz dXBwb3J0ZWQgYnkgV2F5bGFuZDs8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PjAyLjEyLjIwMjUsIDE3OjA1LCAiTGVvbmlk IEduZXpkaWxvdiIgPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOmNvbWRpckBpbmZvbml4LmluZm8iIHJlbD0ibm9v cGVuZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJlciI+Jmx0O2NvbWRpckBpbmZvbml4LmluZm8gJmd0OzwvYT46PC9kaXY+ PGJsb2NrcXVvdGU+PGRpdj5JIGluc3RhbGxlZCB0aGUgc3lzdGVtIGFnYWluIHRvZGF5LCBvbiBh IGRpZmZlcmVudCBkaXNrLiBBbmQgaXQgZG9lc24ndCB3b3JrISBFdmVyeXRoaW5nIGlzIGV4YWN0 bHkgdGhlIHNhbWUsICJvcGVyYXRpb24gbm90IHN1cHBvcnRlZCIuIFNvIGl0IHdhc24ndCBtZSB3 aG8gYnJva2UgdGhlIHN5c3RlbSwgYnV0IHRoZSB1cGRhdGUuQ2FuIHRoaXMgYWxyZWFkeSBiZSBj b25zaWRlcmVkIGEgYnVnPzwvZGl2PjxkaXY+RHVyaW5nIHRoZSBpbnN0YWxsYXRpb24sIEkgc2Vs ZWN0ZWQgdGhlIGluc3RhbGxhdGlvbiBmcm9tIHRoZSBwYWNrYWdlcyAodGVjaCBwcmV2aWV3KSwg bWF5YmUgdGhpcyB3aWxsIGhlbHAgaW4gdGhlIGRpYWdub3Npcz8gVGhlIGRybS1sYXRlc3QgbW9k dWxlLCBJIHRyaWVkIGRybS01MTUsIGJ1dCBpdCBkb2Vzbid0IGhlbHAuIMKgPC9kaXY+PGRpdj7C oDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLTwvZGl2PjxkaXY+VG86IFMuIFJvc3MgR29obGtl ICg8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86cm9zc0BiaXNkLnJvIiByZWw9Im5vb3BlbmVyIG5vcmVmZXJyZXIi PnJvc3NAYmlzZC5ybzwvYT4gKSwgPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOmZyZWVic2QtY3VycmVudEBmcmVl YnNkLm9yZyIgcmVsPSJub29wZW5lciBub3JlZmVycmVyIj5mcmVlYnNkLWN1cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJz ZC5vcmc8L2E+ICg8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86ZnJlZWJzZC1jdXJyZW50QGZyZWVic2Qub3JnIiBy ZWw9Im5vb3BlbmVyIG5vcmVmZXJyZXIiPmZyZWVic2QtY3VycmVudEBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZzwvYT4g KTs8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PlN1YmplY3Q6IG9wZXJhdGlvbiBub3Qgc3VwcG9ydGVkIGJ5IFdheWxhbmQ7 PC9kaXY+PGRpdj4xMi8wMS8yMDI1LCAxNzoxNSBwLm0uLCAiTGVvbmlkIEduZXpkaWxvdiIgJmx0 OzxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpjb21kaXJAaW5mb25peC5pbmZvIiByZWw9Im5vb3BlbmVyIG5vcmVm ZXJyZXIiPmNvbWRpckBpbmZvbml4LmluZm88L2E+ICZndDs6PC9kaXY+PGJsb2NrcXVvdGU+PGRp dj48ZGl2PlRvZGF5IEkgdHJpZWQgdG8gcmVtb3ZlIG1vc3Qgb2YgdGhlIHBhY2thZ2VzLCBidXQg SSB3YXMgYWxtb3N0IGxlZnQgd2l0aG91dCBwa2cpKSBUaGUgcmVzdWx0IHdhcyBhIHN5c3RlbSB3 aXRoIGZld2VyIHBhY2thZ2VzIHRoYW4gd2l0aCB0aGUgbmV3IGluc3RhbGxhdGlvbi4gUmVpbnN0 YWxsZWQgd2F5bGFuZC4gQW5kIHdoYXQgZG8geW91IHRoaW5rPyBFdmVyeXRoaW5nIGlzIHRoZSBz YW1lLCBtb3N0IGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucyBzd2VhciBvbiAib3BlcmF0aW9uIG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0ZWQi IEluc3RhbGxlZCBmb290IGFuZCB3YXlmaXJlLiBCeSB0aGUgd2F5LCB0aGV5IHdvcmsuIEJ1dCBm aXJlZm94IGlzIG5vdC4gSSBkaXNjb3ZlcmVkIHRoYXQgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIHRoYXQgZG8gbm90 IHJ1biB1c2UgbGlibS5zby41LCBidXQgZG8gbm90IHNlZW0gdG8gdXNlIHJ1bm5pbmcgYXBwbGlj YXRpb25zLiBObyBvdGhlciBkaWZmZXJlbmNlcyBhcmUgdmlzaWJsZSB5ZXQuIEnigJlsbCB0cnkg dG8gY29tcGFyZSBvbiBnaXRodWIgZm9vdCBhbmQgYWxhY3JpdHR5IHRoaXMgZXZlbmluZywgbWF5 YmUgSeKAmWxsIGZpbmQgc29tZSBraW5kIG9mIHBhdHRlcm4uIFRvbW9ycm93IGl04oCZcyB0aW1l IHRvIHRyeSB0byByZWluc3RhbGwgdGhlIHN5c3RlbSkpPC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PGRpdj7CoDwvZGl2 PjxkaXY+wqA8L2Rpdj48ZGl2Pi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS08L2Rpdj48ZGl2PlRvIHdob206IDxh IGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpmcmVlYnNkLWN1cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmciIHJlbD0ibm9vcGVuZXIg bm9yZWZlcnJlciI+ZnJlZWJzZC1jdXJyZW50QGZyZWVic2Qub3JnPC9hPiAoPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFp bHRvOmZyZWVic2QtY3VycmVudEBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZyIgcmVsPSJub29wZW5lciBub3JlZmVycmVy Ij5mcmVlYnNkLWN1cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc8L2E+ICk7PC9kaXY+PGRpdj5TdWJqZWN0OiBv cGVyYXRpb24gbm90IHN1cHBvcnRlZCBieSBXYXlsYW5kOzwvZGl2PjxkaXY+MjcuMTEuMjAyNSwg MTk6NDQsICJTLiBSb3NzIEdvaGxrZSIgJmx0OzxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpyb3NzQGJpc2Qucm8i IHJlbD0ibm9vcGVuZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJlciI+cm9zc0BiaXNkLnJvPC9hPiZndDs6PC9kaXY+PGJs b2NrcXVvdGU+PHA+T24gMTEvMjYvMjUgMTA6MTEsIExlb25pZCBHbmV6ZGlsb3Ygd3JvdGU6PC9w PjxibG9ja3F1b3RlPjxkaXY+PGRpdj48ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJib3gtc2l6aW5nOmJvcmRlci1ib3gi PjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImJvcmRlci1yYWRpdXM6MHB4IDNweCAzcHggMHB4O2JveC1zaXppbmc6Ym9y ZGVyLWJveDttaW4td2lkdGg6MHB4O3BhZGRpbmc6MTBweDt2ZXJ0aWNhbC1hbGlnbjp0b3A7d2lk dGg6MTQyMi4zOXB4Ij48ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJib3gtc2l6aW5nOmJvcmRlci1ib3g7aGVpZ2h0OjE1 Ni41NDdweCI+PGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iYm94LXNpemluZzpib3JkZXItYm94O21pbi1oZWlnaHQ6MXB4 Ij48ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJib3gtc2l6aW5nOmJvcmRlci1ib3giPjxkaXY+PGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iYm94 LXNpemluZzpib3JkZXItYm94Ij48ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJib3gtc2l6aW5nOmJvcmRlci1ib3giPkhp ITwvZGl2PjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImJveC1zaXppbmc6Ym9yZGVyLWJveCI+RnJlZUJTRCAxNi4wLUNV UlJFTlQsIFdheWxhbmQuIEFmdGVyIHRoZSBvbmUgb2YgdXBncmFkZSAob3IgYWZ0ZXIgc29tZSBv ZiBteSBleHBlcmltZW50cyB3aXRoIHRoZSBzeXN0ZW0pLCBtYW55IGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucyBzdG9w cGVkIHJ1bm5pbmcuIE1vc3QgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zLiBPbGQsIHByb2JhYmx5IFhXYXlsYW5kLCBh cHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgd29yay4gVGVsZWdyYW0tZGVza3RvcCwgYSByb3gtdGVybWluYWwsIGJyb3dz ZXIgd2FzIGFibGUgdG8gcnVuIC0gbmV0LXN1cmYuPGJyIHN0eWxlPSJib3gtc2l6aW5nOmJvcmRl ci1ib3g7bWFyZ2luLXRvcDowcHgiIC8+PGJyIHN0eWxlPSJib3gtc2l6aW5nOmJvcmRlci1ib3gi IC8+RXJyb3JzIGR1cmluZyBsYXVuY2ggdmFyeSwgYnV0IGFsbW9zdCBldmVyeXRoaW5nIGlzIHVu aXRlZCBieSAib3BlcmF0aW9uIG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0ZWQgKG9zIGVycm9yIDQ1KSI8L2Rpdj48ZGl2 IHN0eWxlPSJib3gtc2l6aW5nOmJvcmRlci1ib3giPldlbGwsIHllcywgV2F5bGFuZCBjb21wb3Np dG9ycyBzdGFydCBhbmQgd29yayB3aXRob3V0IHByb2JsZW1zIChoeXBybGFuZCwgbGFid2MsIGhp a2FyaSksIGVycm9ycyBvY2N1ciB3aGVuIGxhdW5jaGluZyBjb21wb3NpdG9ycyBjbGllbnRzIC0g YXBwbGljYXRpb25zLjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2Pjwv ZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT48cD5JIGFtIHJ1bm5pbmcgYSBXYXlsYW5kIHNl c3Npb24gb24gRnJlZUJTRCAxNi4wLUNVUlJFTlQgcGtnYmFzZSBmcm9tIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIHdl ZWtzIGFnbyBhbmQgaGF2ZSBub3Qgc2VlbiB0aGVzZSBlcnJvcnMuPC9wPjxwPldheWZpcmUgaXMg dGhlIGNvbXBvc2l0b3IsIGFuZCBteSByZWd1bGFyIGFwcCByb3RhdGlvbiAtLSBmb290LCBGaXJl Zm94LCBUaHVuZGVyYmlyZCAtLSBpcyBhcyBzdGFibGUgYXMgaXQgaGFzIGJlZW4uIEkgYW0gbm90 IHVzaW5nIFhXYXlsYW5kLjwvcD48cD5JZiB0aGVyZSBhcmUgc3BlY2lmaWMgYXBwcyB5b3Ugd291 bGQgbGlrZSBtZSB0byBjaGVjayBsZXQgbWUga25vdy48L3A+PHA+UmVnYXJkcyw8L3A+PHA+Um9z c8KgPC9wPjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT48L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+PC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPjwvYmxvY2txdW90 ZT48cD4lIHBrZyBpbmZvIC14IGdwdTxiciAvPmdwdS1maXJtd2FyZS1pbnRlbC1rbW9kLXRpZ2Vy bGFrZS0yMDIzMDYyNS4xNjAwMDAzPC9wPjxwPiUgcGtnIGluZm8gLXggZHJtIHwgZ3JlcCBrbW9k PGJyIC8+ZHJtLWxhdGVzdC1rbW9kLTYuOS4xNjAwMDAzPC9wPjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT48cD5BbHNv LCBoZXJlIGlzIG15IHJlbGV2YW50IGVudmlyb25tZW50LCBleGNsdWRpbmcgWERHLjwvcD48cD5T QUxfVVNFX1ZDTFBMVUdJTj1ndGszPGJyIC8+UVRfV0FZTEFORF9ESVNBQkxFX1dJTkRPV0RFQ09S QVRJT049MTxiciAvPkdES19CQUNLRU5EPXdheWxhbmQ8YnIgLz5TRExfVklERU9EUklWRVI9d2F5 bGFuZDxiciAvPlFUX0FVVE9fU0NSRUVOX1NDQUxFX0ZBQ1RPUj0xPGJyIC8+TU9aX0VOQUJMRV9X QVlMQU5EPTE8YnIgLz5RVF9RUEFfUExBVEZPUk09d2F5bGFuZC1lZ2w8YnIgLz5DTFVUVEVSX0JB Q0tFTkQ9d2F5bGFuZDxiciAvPlFUX1FQQV9QTEFURk9STVRIRU1FPXF0NWN0PGJyIC8+wqA8L3A+ PHA+VE1QRElSIGlzIG1vdW50ZWQgdG1wZnMgc2luY2UgZGVmYXVsdCAvdG1wIHNpemUgbWlnaHQg YmUgdG9vIHNtYWxsIGZvciBwcm9ncmFtcyBsaWtlIEZpcmVmb3ggdG8gZG8gYW55dGhpbmcgdXNl ZnVsLjwvcD48L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+PGRpdj7CoDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+wqA8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PjxzcGFu IHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOiNmZmZmZmY7Y29sb3I6IzY2NjY2NjtmbG9hdDpub25l O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtm b250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRl LXNwYWNlOm5vcm1hbCI+LS3CoDwvc3Bhbj48YnIgc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6cmdi KCAyNTUgLCAyNTUgLCAyNTUgKTtjb2xvcjpyZ2IoIDEwMiAsIDEwMiAsIDEwMiApO2ZvbnQtZmFt aWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdo dDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5v cm1hbCIgLz48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iYmFja2dyb3VuZC1jb2xvcjojZmZmZmZmO2NvbG9yOiM2NjY2 NjY7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFs O2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hp dGUtc3BhY2U6bm93cmFwIj5TaW5jZXJlbHksPC9zcGFuPjxiciBzdHlsZT0iYmFja2dyb3VuZC1j b2xvcjpyZ2IoIDI1NSAsIDI1NSAsIDI1NSApO2NvbG9yOnJnYiggMTAyICwgMTAyICwgMTAyICk7 Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2Zv bnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUt c3BhY2U6bm9ybWFsIiAvPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOiNmZmZmZmY7Y29s b3I6IzY2NjY2Njtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1zdHls ZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06 bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3dyYXAiPkxlb25pZMKgR25lemRpbG92PC9zcGFuPjxiciBzdHls ZT0iYmFja2dyb3VuZC1jb2xvcjpyZ2IoIDI1NSAsIDI1NSAsIDI1NSApO2NvbG9yOnJnYiggMTAy ICwgMTAyICwgMTAyICk7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQt c3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNm b3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6bm9ybWFsIiAvPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNv bG9yOiNmZmZmZmY7Y29sb3I6IzY2NjY2Njtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXpl OjEycHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7 dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3dyYXAiPklORk9OSUNTIExMQzwvc3Bh bj48YnIgc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6cmdiKCAyNTUgLCAyNTUgLCAyNTUgKTtjb2xv cjpyZ2IoIDEwMiAsIDEwMiAsIDEwMiApO2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6 MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0 ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vcm1hbCIgLz48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iYmFj a2dyb3VuZC1jb2xvcjojZmZmZmZmO2NvbG9yOiM2NjY2NjY7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNl O2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFs aWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6bm93cmFwIj4rNyg0NzEy KTc3MC0zNjU8L3NwYW4+PGJyIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOnJnYiggMjU1ICwgMjU1 ICwgMjU1ICk7Y29sb3I6cmdiKCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgKTtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3Bh Y2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQt YWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3JtYWwiIC8+PHNw YW4gc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6I2ZmZmZmZjtjb2xvcjojNjY2NjY2O2ZvbnQtZmFt aWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdo dDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5v d3JhcCI+KzcoOTE5KTIxMC05Ny03Mzwvc3Bhbj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2PsKgPC9kaXY+PC9ibG9ja3F1 b3RlPjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT48ZGl2PsKgPC9kaXY+PGRpdj7CoDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+PHNwYW4gc3R5 bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6I2ZmZmZmZjtjb2xvcjojNjY2NjY2O2Rpc3BsYXk6aW5saW5l ICFpbXBvcnRhbnQ7ZmxvYXQ6bm9uZTtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEy cHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4 dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3JtYWwiPi0twqA8L3NwYW4+PGJyIHN0eWxl PSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOnJnYiggMjU1ICwgMjU1ICwgMjU1ICk7Y29sb3I6cmdiKCAxMDIg LCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgKTtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1z dHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zv cm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3JtYWwiIC8+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29s b3I6I2ZmZmZmZjtjb2xvcjojNjY2NjY2O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6 MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0 ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vd3JhcCI+U2luY2VyZWx5LDwvc3Bhbj48 YnIgc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6cmdiKCAyNTUgLCAyNTUgLCAyNTUgKTtjb2xvcjpy Z2IoIDEwMiAsIDEwMiAsIDEwMiApO2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6MTJw eDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0 LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vcm1hbCIgLz48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iYmFja2dy b3VuZC1jb2xvcjojZmZmZmZmO2NvbG9yOiM2NjY2NjY7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNlO2Zv bnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFsaWdu OnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6bm93cmFwIj5MZW9uaWTCoEdu ZXpkaWxvdjwvc3Bhbj48YnIgc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6cmdiKCAyNTUgLCAyNTUg LCAyNTUgKTtjb2xvcjpyZ2IoIDEwMiAsIDEwMiAsIDEwMiApO2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFj ZTtmb250LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1h bGlnbjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vcm1hbCIgLz48c3Bh biBzdHlsZT0iYmFja2dyb3VuZC1jb2xvcjojZmZmZmZmO2NvbG9yOiM2NjY2NjY7Zm9udC1mYW1p bHk6bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0 OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6bm93 cmFwIj5JTkZPTklDUyBMTEM8L3NwYW4+PGJyIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOnJnYigg MjU1ICwgMjU1ICwgMjU1ICk7Y29sb3I6cmdiKCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgKTtmb250LWZhbWls eTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6 NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3Jt YWwiIC8+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6I2ZmZmZmZjtjb2xvcjojNjY2NjY2 O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtm b250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRl LXNwYWNlOm5vd3JhcCI+KzcoNDcxMik3NzAtMzY1PC9zcGFuPjxiciBzdHlsZT0iYmFja2dyb3Vu ZC1jb2xvcjpyZ2IoIDI1NSAsIDI1NSAsIDI1NSApO2NvbG9yOnJnYiggMTAyICwgMTAyICwgMTAy ICk7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFs O2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hp dGUtc3BhY2U6bm9ybWFsIiAvPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOiNmZmZmZmY7 Y29sb3I6IzY2NjY2Njtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1z dHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zv cm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3dyYXAiPis3KDkxOSkyMTAtOTctNzM8L3NwYW4+PC9kaXY+ PGRpdj7CoDwvZGl2Pg== From nobody Wed Dec 10 14:58:09 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dRJkL42sgz6KhcX for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 14:58:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ross@bisd.ro) Received: from ada.kiz.li (ada.kiz.li [38.45.72.165]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dRJkK5crmz3Njg for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 14:58:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ross@bisd.ro) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=bisd.ro; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ross@bisd.ro designates 38.45.72.165 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ross@bisd.ro Received: from [10.3.0.30] (tulsa.kiz.li [205.209.235.143]) by ada.kiz.li (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id e4c14d75 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO) for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 09:58:10 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------sVjwxlB90rkyuHP0zclQBBnl" Message-ID: <0559ec39-f129-40ca-acf6-f12e00749810@bisd.ro> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2025 08:58:09 -0600 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: operation not supported Wayland To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <11071764173299@mail.yandex.ru> <200391764598041@mail.yandex.ru> <3644111764683408@mail.yandex.ru> <207781764767464@mail.yandex.ru> <923f73e9-181e-4afa-9686-364fcab88b34@bisd.ro> <48dcc1b8-0157-46c2-803c-2b217a56bf7b@bisd.ro> <115011765277810@mail.yandex.ru> <33091765368936@mail.yandex.ru> Content-Language: en-US From: "S. Ross Gohlke" In-Reply-To: <33091765368936@mail.yandex.ru> X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.59 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.988]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[bisd.ro,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:174, ipnet:38.45.72.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dRJkK5crmz3Njg This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------sVjwxlB90rkyuHP0zclQBBnl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit % alacritty Io error: Operation not supported (os error 45) Io error: Operation not supported (os error 45) Error: ExitFailure(1) On 12/10/25 06:26, Леонид Гнездилов wrote: > Well, everything fell into place - hardware acceleration in wayland > stopped working on cores built after about November 24. Alacritty > definitely uses hardware acceleration (most likely OpenGL) of Firefox > too. Now the cool specialists have to get involved and fix everything) > I found and installed the FreeBSD-kernel-generic-16 > package.snap20251110100118 and everything worked as before. Now it > must be frozen so that it is not updated. > Special thanks to Ross, apparently only the two of us will use Wayland > on FreeBSD)) > By the way, Ross, could you try installing alacritty? To repeat the bug. > Let me remind you that I was able to repeat this error on two > motherboards with intel early generations (i915kms), with an external > graphics card (radeonkms) and on a motherboard with Ryzen 3(amdgpu) > ---------------- > To whom: freebsd-current@freebsd.org (freebsd-current@freebsd.org ); > Subject: operation not supported by Wayland; > 09.12.2025, 19:05, "S. Ross Gohlke" : > > On 12/9/25 05:04, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote: > > So! I have done research and investigation)) I found out that > the system installed from the image (date 20251110) runs all > applications in wayland.  I checked on 4 motherboards with > i915kms (kaby lake and some other lake))) radeonkms and > amdgpu. Starting from 20251124 - "operation not supported". on > any hardware! You just update the working system and get a > non-working firefox, for example. (In general, most of the > software does not work, but the composers themselves do). > It's the same in 15-Stable. > S. Ross Gohlke - could you upgrade the system and give it a try? > > I upgraded from 20251106 to 20251204 and I did run into a problem > -- I was going to try 20251205 before I reported anything, but not > there yet. > > After upgrade, Firefox (and Thunderbird) refused to launch from > the menu. In a panic, I compiled Firefox from ports and got the > same result, but this time I tried running it a second time > directly from the terminal and it gave me a dialog window offering > to launch in Safe Mode, which worked. Safe Mode disables all > extensions, hardware acceleration and something else. > > My extensions were fine, but I had to disable hardware > acceleration to get Firefox to launch normally: > > Settings > General > Performance > >     Uncheck "Use recommended performance settings" > >         Uncheck "Use hardware acceleration when available" > > I have never seen this setting, I have never used this setting, I > don't know if this is due to a change in FreeBSD or Firefox or both. > > It was the same story with Thunderbird, but Thunderbird did not > preemptively provide a Safe Mode dialog when run from the > terminal. I had to run "thunderbird --safe-mode" to open it so I > could disable hardware acceleration. > > Some background on my system: Lenovo ThinkPad E14, Intel Core > i5-1135G7 > > vgapci0@pci0:0:2:0:    class=0x030000 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 > vendor=0x8086 device=0x9a49 subvendor=0x17aa subdevice=0x5088 >     vendor     = 'Intel Corporation' >     device     = 'TigerLake-LP GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics]' >     class      = display >     subclass   = VGA > > According to Lenovo, here: > > https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_E14_Gen_2_Intel/ThinkPad_E14_Gen_2_Intel_Spec.pdf > >     Intel Iris Xe Graphics capability requires system to be > configured with dual-channel memory. On the system with > single-channel memory, Intel Iris Xe Graphics will function as > Intel UHD Graphics > > Since E14 only has one memory slot, I must be consigned to UHD > Graphics, but I have no clue as to the implications. > > The final important detail is that I recently upgraded from 16GB > to 32GB (used) RAM, after upgrade to 20251106 but before upgrade > to 20251204. > > Regards, > > Ross > > ---------------- > To whom: freebsd-current@freebsd.org > (freebsd-current@freebsd.org ); > Subject: operation not supported by Wayland; > 04.12.2025, 16:51, "S. Ross Gohlke" > : > > On 12/4/25 07:26, S. Ross Gohlke wrote: > > On 12/3/25 07:23, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote: > > You won't believe it - I installed 15.0-STABLE and > the same thing happened again. I'm already > starting to think it's the computer hardware. > Although it worked until 11/24/2025. > GPU-firmware-intel-kmod-geminilake and i915_kms > are used (different versions, latest, 61, 515) > ---------------- > To: S. Ross Gohlke (ross@bisd.ro ), > freebsd-current@freebsd.org > (freebsd-current@freebsd.org ); > Subject: operation not supported by Wayland; > 02.12.2025, 17:05, "Leonid Gnezdilov" > : > > I installed the system again today, on a > different disk. And it doesn't work! > Everything is exactly the same, "operation not > supported". So it wasn't me who broke the > system, but the update.Can this already be > considered a bug? > During the installation, I selected the > installation from the packages (tech preview), > maybe this will help in the diagnosis? The > drm-latest module, I tried drm-515, but it > doesn't help. > ---------------- > To: S. Ross Gohlke (ross@bisd.ro ), > freebsd-current@freebsd.org > (freebsd-current@freebsd.org ); > Subject: operation not supported by Wayland; > 12/01/2025, 17:15 p.m., "Leonid Gnezdilov" > : > > Today I tried to remove most of the > packages, but I was almost left without > pkg)) The result was a system with fewer > packages than with the new installation. > Reinstalled wayland. And what do you > think? Everything is the same, most > applications swear on "operation not > supported" Installed foot and wayfire. By > the way, they work. But firefox is not. I > discovered that applications that do not > run use libm.so.5, but do not seem to use > running applications. No other differences > are visible yet. I’ll try to compare on > github foot and alacritty this evening, > maybe I’ll find some kind of pattern. > Tomorrow it’s time to try to reinstall the > system)) > ---------------- > To whom: freebsd-current@freebsd.org > (freebsd-current@freebsd.org ); > Subject: operation not supported by Wayland; > 27.11.2025, 19:44, "S. Ross Gohlke" > : > > On 11/26/25 10:11, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote: > > Hi! > FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT, Wayland. > After the one of upgrade (or after > some of my experiments with the > system), many applications stopped > running. Most applications. Old, > probably XWayland, applications > work. Telegram-desktop, a > rox-terminal, browser was able to > run - net-surf. > > Errors during launch vary, but > almost everything is united by > "operation not supported (os error > 45)" > Well, yes, Wayland compositors > start and work without problems > (hyprland, labwc, hikari), errors > occur when launching compositors > clients - applications. > > I am running a Wayland session on > FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT pkgbase from a > couple of weeks ago and have not seen > these errors. > > Wayfire is the compositor, and my > regular app rotation -- foot, Firefox, > Thunderbird -- is as stable as it has > been. I am not using XWayland. > > If there are specific apps you would > like me to check let me know. > > Regards, > > Ross > > % pkg info -x gpu > gpu-firmware-intel-kmod-tigerlake-20230625.1600003 > > % pkg info -x drm | grep kmod > drm-latest-kmod-6.9.1600003 > > Also, here is my relevant environment, excluding XDG. > > SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN=gtk3 > QT_WAYLAND_DISABLE_WINDOWDECORATION=1 > GDK_BACKEND=wayland > SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland > QT_AUTO_SCREEN_SCALE_FACTOR=1 > MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1 > QT_QPA_PLATFORM=wayland-egl > CLUTTER_BACKEND=wayland > QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=qt5ct > > TMPDIR is mounted tmpfs since default /tmp size might be > too small for programs like Firefox to do anything useful. > > -- > Sincerely, > Leonid Gnezdilov > INFONICS LLC > +7(4712)770-365 > +7(919)210-97-73 > > -- > Sincerely, > Leonid Gnezdilov > INFONICS LLC > +7(4712)770-365 > +7(919)210-97-73 --------------sVjwxlB90rkyuHP0zclQBBnl Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

% alacritty 
Io error: Operation not supported (os error 45)
Io error: Operation not supported (os error 45)
Error: ExitFailure(1)

On 12/10/25 06:26, Леонид Гнездилов wrote:
Well, everything fell into place - hardware acceleration in wayland stopped working on cores built after about November 24. Alacritty definitely uses hardware acceleration (most likely OpenGL) of Firefox too. Now the cool specialists have to get involved and fix everything) I found and installed the FreeBSD-kernel-generic-16 package.snap20251110100118 and everything worked as before. Now it must be frozen so that it is not updated.
Special thanks to Ross, apparently only the two of us will use Wayland on FreeBSD))  
By the way, Ross, could you try installing alacritty? To repeat the bug.
Let me remind you that I was able to repeat this error on two motherboards with intel early generations (i915kms), with an external graphics card (radeonkms) and on a motherboard with Ryzen 3(amdgpu)
 
----------------
Subject: operation not supported by Wayland;
09.12.2025, 19:05, "S. Ross Gohlke" <ross@bisd.ro>:

 

On 12/9/25 05:04, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote:
So! I have done research and investigation)) I found out that the system installed from the image (date 20251110) runs all applications in wayland.  I checked on 4 motherboards with i915kms (kaby lake and some other lake))) radeonkms and amdgpu. Starting from 20251124 - "operation not supported". on any hardware! You just update the working system and get a non-working firefox, for example. (In general, most of the software does not work, but the composers themselves do).
It's the same in 15-Stable.
S. Ross Gohlke - could you upgrade the system and give it a try?

I upgraded from 20251106 to 20251204 and I did run into a problem -- I was going to try 20251205 before I reported anything, but not there yet.

After upgrade, Firefox (and Thunderbird) refused to launch from the menu. In a panic, I compiled Firefox from ports and got the same result, but this time I tried running it a second time directly from the terminal and it gave me a dialog window offering to launch in Safe Mode, which worked. Safe Mode disables all extensions, hardware acceleration and something else.

My extensions were fine, but I had to disable hardware acceleration to get Firefox to launch normally:

Settings > General > Performance

    Uncheck "Use recommended performance settings"

        Uncheck "Use hardware acceleration when available"

I have never seen this setting, I have never used this setting, I don't know if this is due to a change in FreeBSD or Firefox or both.

It was the same story with Thunderbird, but Thunderbird did not preemptively provide a Safe Mode dialog when run from the terminal. I had to run "thunderbird --safe-mode" to open it so I could disable hardware acceleration.

Some background on my system: Lenovo ThinkPad E14, Intel Core i5-1135G7

vgapci0@pci0:0:2:0:     class=0x030000 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor=0x8086 device=0x9a49 subvendor=0x17aa subdevice=0x5088
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = 'TigerLake-LP GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics]'
    class      = display
    subclass   = VGA

According to Lenovo, here:

https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_E14_Gen_2_Intel/ThinkPad_E14_Gen_2_Intel_Spec.pdf

    Intel Iris Xe Graphics capability requires system to be configured with dual-channel memory. On the system with single-channel memory, Intel Iris Xe Graphics will function as Intel UHD Graphics

Since E14 only has one memory slot, I must be consigned to UHD Graphics, but I have no clue as to the implications.

The final important detail is that I recently upgraded from 16GB to 32GB (used) RAM, after upgrade to 20251106 but before upgrade to 20251204.

Regards,

Ross

----------------
Subject: operation not supported by Wayland;
04.12.2025, 16:51, "S. Ross Gohlke" <ross@bisd.ro>:

 

On 12/4/25 07:26, S. Ross Gohlke wrote:
On 12/3/25 07:23, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote:
You won't believe it - I installed 15.0-STABLE and the same thing happened again. I'm already starting to think it's the computer hardware. Although it worked until 11/24/2025.
GPU-firmware-intel-kmod-geminilake and i915_kms are used (different versions, latest, 61, 515)
----------------
Subject: operation not supported by Wayland;
02.12.2025, 17:05, "Leonid Gnezdilov" <comdir@infonix.info >:
I installed the system again today, on a different disk. And it doesn't work! Everything is exactly the same, "operation not supported". So it wasn't me who broke the system, but the update.Can this already be considered a bug?
During the installation, I selected the installation from the packages (tech preview), maybe this will help in the diagnosis? The drm-latest module, I tried drm-515, but it doesn't help.  
 
----------------
Subject: operation not supported by Wayland;
12/01/2025, 17:15 p.m., "Leonid Gnezdilov" <comdir@infonix.info >:
Today I tried to remove most of the packages, but I was almost left without pkg)) The result was a system with fewer packages than with the new installation. Reinstalled wayland. And what do you think? Everything is the same, most applications swear on "operation not supported" Installed foot and wayfire. By the way, they work. But firefox is not. I discovered that applications that do not run use libm.so.5, but do not seem to use running applications. No other differences are visible yet. I’ll try to compare on github foot and alacritty this evening, maybe I’ll find some kind of pattern. Tomorrow it’s time to try to reinstall the system))
 
 
----------------
Subject: operation not supported by Wayland;
27.11.2025, 19:44, "S. Ross Gohlke" <ross@bisd.ro>:

On 11/26/25 10:11, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote:

Hi!
FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT, Wayland. After the one of upgrade (or after some of my experiments with the system), many applications stopped running. Most applications. Old, probably XWayland, applications work. Telegram-desktop, a rox-terminal, browser was able to run - net-surf.

Errors during launch vary, but almost everything is united by "operation not supported (os error 45)"
Well, yes, Wayland compositors start and work without problems (hyprland, labwc, hikari), errors occur when launching compositors clients - applications.

I am running a Wayland session on FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT pkgbase from a couple of weeks ago and have not seen these errors.

Wayfire is the compositor, and my regular app rotation -- foot, Firefox, Thunderbird -- is as stable as it has been. I am not using XWayland.

If there are specific apps you would like me to check let me know.

Regards,

Ross 

% pkg info -x gpu
gpu-firmware-intel-kmod-tigerlake-20230625.1600003

% pkg info -x drm | grep kmod
drm-latest-kmod-6.9.1600003

Also, here is my relevant environment, excluding XDG.

SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN=gtk3
QT_WAYLAND_DISABLE_WINDOWDECORATION=1
GDK_BACKEND=wayland
SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland
QT_AUTO_SCREEN_SCALE_FACTOR=1
MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1
QT_QPA_PLATFORM=wayland-egl
CLUTTER_BACKEND=wayland
QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=qt5ct
 

TMPDIR is mounted tmpfs since default /tmp size might be too small for programs like Firefox to do anything useful.

 
 
-- 
Sincerely,
Leonid Gnezdilov
INFONICS LLC
+7(4712)770-365
+7(919)210-97-73
 
 
 
-- 
Sincerely,
Leonid Gnezdilov
INFONICS LLC
+7(4712)770-365
+7(919)210-97-73
 
--------------sVjwxlB90rkyuHP0zclQBBnl-- From nobody Wed Dec 10 14:59:04 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dRJlV5Nb9z6KhhZ for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 14:59:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oo1-f50.google.com (mail-oo1-f50.google.com [209.85.161.50]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dRJlT5KWcz3Pnd for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 14:59:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-oo1-f50.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-656b52c0f88so4019193eaf.0 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 06:59:17 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765378756; x=1765983556; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=Zsa9yr/VyvctwAAq4vJxmA1lYVAWxIlCdpN1MM8FEfE=; b=iTNUPJGhBf+ECbrRFrZ5v0MGsTxoqieJu9Pi/W2WqMxlG8axB9+JhjCfFNkXm1Qy+1 tzNgtLehnpzOiJDQkh1H6ne5j/GbdQ2k6ayeibXQFdEUaihNegYg8ZIU2gse4HYl7hv+ 1Yy0vm+/1X3ZHhREBGy9v1LAF1buDSJcSgiqgk6Uz8V7Ce1FQMY2A5UcYqEcJRULGahS B3/Q7pPiL8R9E+rCQ/JbKKWF41M8mgyN4G4dKT6JoOA5cC1qr3iIVL5nnaoi2lgnyVDj /5FyASDlcfZz3O0Kc7Po8DNoHTiClY8QwXkWNbAen1rrP21MgFOEkMbR04PIXfB7/M33 QTvQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXnncfGBfsKmXguT3qjckncPwi9gjwL23KguIqSkkZX7l62RGvKvGVSlT/1tBcB2RSVwt3z7CpgE8BooHlmyaQ=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxlShmh/ygkCfXpbVfYlX5K52dEuqwIUkOqAPKd5S9bF+FN/xhv nPFniGeY8c27ULUuhC2p7t0nPmH5zcaOnk9KBWvfmTfRGteHCIsC4iRQdXWRPqIuL2qjGzFHYXu tif+iiAy0kmq2A7DHxGVi2Azmj+uCPDU= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvwj6Oo1occ6t9zzYwLOkLX4ZHlrnJRoh0l6ta1418Lg0JqbSU7KpLG+1VxFxd 4T4hTs/MBLbMgY4i5gFdiszZoD9gomDpT1niBJ4EAOkCEgQ9GpfqumChF5PsESk72Uqbe8ji0XT 20MAz/V58pknsAtIoOT/ZqaXuRqFdVVspwmMTokrlOHfAw4E2WGKQoAXJpSIiNwOLuZZKCa7TBJ 8R/BQelaWYqnqOGkGlSNtA+wp8GxkQCSSZ2+sLeCQ/DQ4fkB2oZUbrYpi/ubo+dSmW6NpIhvU/Q W2lmCm+3vFS0qOyqK3x07uAsoDgFySie1BNXV+NMfXiaqF8gFEWeiXBxMcpRS7bV7Jf2Pjht X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFnIoqF/eZVxEeZ3FVz0hkeDvGHdkYaH7/mOaT7gks694/JbzYk4EB3r4dXP20Q5zfZlUSDiBtRkOpmLOeqSlU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6820:810b:b0:659:9a49:8eb6 with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-65b2ad5bb17mr1604710eaf.58.1765378756181; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 06:59:16 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <63ebfc5a49b38196ead43b7403f0a12c@bsdforge.com> <20251210063425.88020295@slippy.cwsent.com> In-Reply-To: From: Ed Maste Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2025 09:59:04 -0500 X-Gm-Features: AQt7F2qdCcZzTM4acLAMNwZFzut28K1AojdN0EAKIbLYLKGRYVKpJ-SvYYoDxVg Message-ID: Subject: Re: Anyone know how to get FreeBSD on a framework 13 laptop? To: vermaden Cc: Cy Schubert , Chris , freebsd-current , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dRJlT5KWcz3Pnd On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 at 01:38, vermaden wrote: > > One may ask a question ... why 'kern.vty=vt' is not default on FreeBSD 15.x and 16.x right now? It is the default. vt has been the default since 2014 (commit 018147eef98b default for UEFI systems, and unconditionally since commit 2d6f6d63). From nobody Wed Dec 10 15:08:39 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dRJyM2M84z6KjZR for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 15:08:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ross@bisd.ro) Received: from ada.kiz.li (ada.kiz.li [38.45.72.165]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dRJyK60bxz3TWb for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 15:08:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ross@bisd.ro) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=bisd.ro; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ross@bisd.ro designates 38.45.72.165 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ross@bisd.ro Received: from [10.3.0.30] (tulsa.kiz.li [205.209.235.143]) by ada.kiz.li (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 6bdca4af (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO) for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 10:08:40 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------7KPRjOE7nINb6R0H0D76rRsw" Message-ID: <8d23d8a6-d862-45ab-b720-9d13700cae3f@bisd.ro> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2025 09:08:39 -0600 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: operation not supported Wayland To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <11071764173299@mail.yandex.ru> <200391764598041@mail.yandex.ru> <3644111764683408@mail.yandex.ru> <207781764767464@mail.yandex.ru> <923f73e9-181e-4afa-9686-364fcab88b34@bisd.ro> <48dcc1b8-0157-46c2-803c-2b217a56bf7b@bisd.ro> <115011765277810@mail.yandex.ru> <33091765368936@mail.yandex.ru> Content-Language: en-US From: "S. Ross Gohlke" In-Reply-To: <33091765368936@mail.yandex.ru> X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.59 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.988]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[bisd.ro,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:174, ipnet:38.45.72.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dRJyK60bxz3TWb This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7KPRjOE7nINb6R0H0D76rRsw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 12/10/25 06:26, Леонид Гнездилов wrote: > Well, everything fell into place - hardware acceleration in wayland > stopped working on cores built after about November 24. Alacritty > definitely uses hardware acceleration (most likely OpenGL) of Firefox > too. Now the cool specialists have to get involved and fix everything) > I found and installed the FreeBSD-kernel-generic-16 > package.snap20251110100118 and everything worked as before. Now it > must be frozen so that it is not updated. Thanks for identifying the solution so succinctly. Did you only downgrade the kernel? Is the rest of your base newer? I have a custom kernel so I will need FreeBSD-set-src, although I might have a backup in this case. > Special thanks to Ross, apparently only the two of us will use Wayland > on FreeBSD)) > By the way, Ross, could you try installing alacritty? To repeat the bug. > Let me remind you that I was able to repeat this error on two > motherboards with intel early generations (i915kms), with an external > graphics card (radeonkms) and on a motherboard with Ryzen 3(amdgpu) > ---------------- > To whom: freebsd-current@freebsd.org (freebsd-current@freebsd.org ); > Subject: operation not supported by Wayland; > 09.12.2025, 19:05, "S. Ross Gohlke" : > > On 12/9/25 05:04, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote: > > So! I have done research and investigation)) I found out that > the system installed from the image (date 20251110) runs all > applications in wayland.  I checked on 4 motherboards with > i915kms (kaby lake and some other lake))) radeonkms and > amdgpu. Starting from 20251124 - "operation not supported". on > any hardware! You just update the working system and get a > non-working firefox, for example. (In general, most of the > software does not work, but the composers themselves do). > It's the same in 15-Stable. > S. Ross Gohlke - could you upgrade the system and give it a try? > > I upgraded from 20251106 to 20251204 and I did run into a problem > -- I was going to try 20251205 before I reported anything, but not > there yet. > > After upgrade, Firefox (and Thunderbird) refused to launch from > the menu. In a panic, I compiled Firefox from ports and got the > same result, but this time I tried running it a second time > directly from the terminal and it gave me a dialog window offering > to launch in Safe Mode, which worked. Safe Mode disables all > extensions, hardware acceleration and something else. > > My extensions were fine, but I had to disable hardware > acceleration to get Firefox to launch normally: > > Settings > General > Performance > >     Uncheck "Use recommended performance settings" > >         Uncheck "Use hardware acceleration when available" > > I have never seen this setting, I have never used this setting, I > don't know if this is due to a change in FreeBSD or Firefox or both. > > It was the same story with Thunderbird, but Thunderbird did not > preemptively provide a Safe Mode dialog when run from the > terminal. I had to run "thunderbird --safe-mode" to open it so I > could disable hardware acceleration. > > Some background on my system: Lenovo ThinkPad E14, Intel Core > i5-1135G7 > > vgapci0@pci0:0:2:0:    class=0x030000 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 > vendor=0x8086 device=0x9a49 subvendor=0x17aa subdevice=0x5088 >     vendor     = 'Intel Corporation' >     device     = 'TigerLake-LP GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics]' >     class      = display >     subclass   = VGA > > According to Lenovo, here: > > https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_E14_Gen_2_Intel/ThinkPad_E14_Gen_2_Intel_Spec.pdf > >     Intel Iris Xe Graphics capability requires system to be > configured with dual-channel memory. On the system with > single-channel memory, Intel Iris Xe Graphics will function as > Intel UHD Graphics > > Since E14 only has one memory slot, I must be consigned to UHD > Graphics, but I have no clue as to the implications. > > The final important detail is that I recently upgraded from 16GB > to 32GB (used) RAM, after upgrade to 20251106 but before upgrade > to 20251204. > > Regards, > > Ross > > ---------------- > To whom: freebsd-current@freebsd.org > (freebsd-current@freebsd.org ); > Subject: operation not supported by Wayland; > 04.12.2025, 16:51, "S. Ross Gohlke" > : > > On 12/4/25 07:26, S. Ross Gohlke wrote: > > On 12/3/25 07:23, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote: > > You won't believe it - I installed 15.0-STABLE and > the same thing happened again. I'm already > starting to think it's the computer hardware. > Although it worked until 11/24/2025. > GPU-firmware-intel-kmod-geminilake and i915_kms > are used (different versions, latest, 61, 515) > ---------------- > To: S. Ross Gohlke (ross@bisd.ro ), > freebsd-current@freebsd.org > (freebsd-current@freebsd.org ); > Subject: operation not supported by Wayland; > 02.12.2025, 17:05, "Leonid Gnezdilov" > : > > I installed the system again today, on a > different disk. And it doesn't work! > Everything is exactly the same, "operation not > supported". So it wasn't me who broke the > system, but the update.Can this already be > considered a bug? > During the installation, I selected the > installation from the packages (tech preview), > maybe this will help in the diagnosis? The > drm-latest module, I tried drm-515, but it > doesn't help. > ---------------- > To: S. Ross Gohlke (ross@bisd.ro ), > freebsd-current@freebsd.org > (freebsd-current@freebsd.org ); > Subject: operation not supported by Wayland; > 12/01/2025, 17:15 p.m., "Leonid Gnezdilov" > : > > Today I tried to remove most of the > packages, but I was almost left without > pkg)) The result was a system with fewer > packages than with the new installation. > Reinstalled wayland. And what do you > think? Everything is the same, most > applications swear on "operation not > supported" Installed foot and wayfire. By > the way, they work. But firefox is not. I > discovered that applications that do not > run use libm.so.5, but do not seem to use > running applications. No other differences > are visible yet. I’ll try to compare on > github foot and alacritty this evening, > maybe I’ll find some kind of pattern. > Tomorrow it’s time to try to reinstall the > system)) > ---------------- > To whom: freebsd-current@freebsd.org > (freebsd-current@freebsd.org ); > Subject: operation not supported by Wayland; > 27.11.2025, 19:44, "S. Ross Gohlke" > : > > On 11/26/25 10:11, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote: > > Hi! > FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT, Wayland. > After the one of upgrade (or after > some of my experiments with the > system), many applications stopped > running. Most applications. Old, > probably XWayland, applications > work. Telegram-desktop, a > rox-terminal, browser was able to > run - net-surf. > > Errors during launch vary, but > almost everything is united by > "operation not supported (os error > 45)" > Well, yes, Wayland compositors > start and work without problems > (hyprland, labwc, hikari), errors > occur when launching compositors > clients - applications. > > I am running a Wayland session on > FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT pkgbase from a > couple of weeks ago and have not seen > these errors. > > Wayfire is the compositor, and my > regular app rotation -- foot, Firefox, > Thunderbird -- is as stable as it has > been. I am not using XWayland. > > If there are specific apps you would > like me to check let me know. > > Regards, > > Ross > > % pkg info -x gpu > gpu-firmware-intel-kmod-tigerlake-20230625.1600003 > > % pkg info -x drm | grep kmod > drm-latest-kmod-6.9.1600003 > > Also, here is my relevant environment, excluding XDG. > > SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN=gtk3 > QT_WAYLAND_DISABLE_WINDOWDECORATION=1 > GDK_BACKEND=wayland > SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland > QT_AUTO_SCREEN_SCALE_FACTOR=1 > MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1 > QT_QPA_PLATFORM=wayland-egl > CLUTTER_BACKEND=wayland > QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=qt5ct > > TMPDIR is mounted tmpfs since default /tmp size might be > too small for programs like Firefox to do anything useful. > > -- > Sincerely, > Leonid Gnezdilov > INFONICS LLC > +7(4712)770-365 > +7(919)210-97-73 > > -- > Sincerely, > Leonid Gnezdilov > INFONICS LLC > +7(4712)770-365 > +7(919)210-97-73 --------------7KPRjOE7nINb6R0H0D76rRsw Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 12/10/25 06:26, Леонид Гнездилов wrote:
Well, everything fell into place - hardware acceleration in wayland stopped working on cores built after about November 24. Alacritty definitely uses hardware acceleration (most likely OpenGL) of Firefox too. Now the cool specialists have to get involved and fix everything) I found and installed the FreeBSD-kernel-generic-16 package.snap20251110100118 and everything worked as before. Now it must be frozen so that it is not updated.
Thanks for identifying the solution so succinctly.

Did you only downgrade the kernel? Is the rest of your base newer? I have a custom kernel so I will need FreeBSD-set-src, although I might have a backup in this case.

Special thanks to Ross, apparently only the two of us will use Wayland on FreeBSD))  
By the way, Ross, could you try installing alacritty? To repeat the bug.
Let me remind you that I was able to repeat this error on two motherboards with intel early generations (i915kms), with an external graphics card (radeonkms) and on a motherboard with Ryzen 3(amdgpu)
 
----------------
Subject: operation not supported by Wayland;
09.12.2025, 19:05, "S. Ross Gohlke" <ross@bisd.ro>:

 

On 12/9/25 05:04, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote:
So! I have done research and investigation)) I found out that the system installed from the image (date 20251110) runs all applications in wayland.  I checked on 4 motherboards with i915kms (kaby lake and some other lake))) radeonkms and amdgpu. Starting from 20251124 - "operation not supported". on any hardware! You just update the working system and get a non-working firefox, for example. (In general, most of the software does not work, but the composers themselves do).
It's the same in 15-Stable.
S. Ross Gohlke - could you upgrade the system and give it a try?

I upgraded from 20251106 to 20251204 and I did run into a problem -- I was going to try 20251205 before I reported anything, but not there yet.

After upgrade, Firefox (and Thunderbird) refused to launch from the menu. In a panic, I compiled Firefox from ports and got the same result, but this time I tried running it a second time directly from the terminal and it gave me a dialog window offering to launch in Safe Mode, which worked. Safe Mode disables all extensions, hardware acceleration and something else.

My extensions were fine, but I had to disable hardware acceleration to get Firefox to launch normally:

Settings > General > Performance

    Uncheck "Use recommended performance settings"

        Uncheck "Use hardware acceleration when available"

I have never seen this setting, I have never used this setting, I don't know if this is due to a change in FreeBSD or Firefox or both.

It was the same story with Thunderbird, but Thunderbird did not preemptively provide a Safe Mode dialog when run from the terminal. I had to run "thunderbird --safe-mode" to open it so I could disable hardware acceleration.

Some background on my system: Lenovo ThinkPad E14, Intel Core i5-1135G7

vgapci0@pci0:0:2:0:     class=0x030000 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor=0x8086 device=0x9a49 subvendor=0x17aa subdevice=0x5088
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = 'TigerLake-LP GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics]'
    class      = display
    subclass   = VGA

According to Lenovo, here:

https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_E14_Gen_2_Intel/ThinkPad_E14_Gen_2_Intel_Spec.pdf

    Intel Iris Xe Graphics capability requires system to be configured with dual-channel memory. On the system with single-channel memory, Intel Iris Xe Graphics will function as Intel UHD Graphics

Since E14 only has one memory slot, I must be consigned to UHD Graphics, but I have no clue as to the implications.

The final important detail is that I recently upgraded from 16GB to 32GB (used) RAM, after upgrade to 20251106 but before upgrade to 20251204.

Regards,

Ross

----------------
Subject: operation not supported by Wayland;
04.12.2025, 16:51, "S. Ross Gohlke" <ross@bisd.ro>:

 

On 12/4/25 07:26, S. Ross Gohlke wrote:
On 12/3/25 07:23, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote:
You won't believe it - I installed 15.0-STABLE and the same thing happened again. I'm already starting to think it's the computer hardware. Although it worked until 11/24/2025.
GPU-firmware-intel-kmod-geminilake and i915_kms are used (different versions, latest, 61, 515)
----------------
Subject: operation not supported by Wayland;
02.12.2025, 17:05, "Leonid Gnezdilov" <comdir@infonix.info >:
I installed the system again today, on a different disk. And it doesn't work! Everything is exactly the same, "operation not supported". So it wasn't me who broke the system, but the update.Can this already be considered a bug?
During the installation, I selected the installation from the packages (tech preview), maybe this will help in the diagnosis? The drm-latest module, I tried drm-515, but it doesn't help.  
 
----------------
Subject: operation not supported by Wayland;
12/01/2025, 17:15 p.m., "Leonid Gnezdilov" <comdir@infonix.info >:
Today I tried to remove most of the packages, but I was almost left without pkg)) The result was a system with fewer packages than with the new installation. Reinstalled wayland. And what do you think? Everything is the same, most applications swear on "operation not supported" Installed foot and wayfire. By the way, they work. But firefox is not. I discovered that applications that do not run use libm.so.5, but do not seem to use running applications. No other differences are visible yet. I’ll try to compare on github foot and alacritty this evening, maybe I’ll find some kind of pattern. Tomorrow it’s time to try to reinstall the system))
 
 
----------------
Subject: operation not supported by Wayland;
27.11.2025, 19:44, "S. Ross Gohlke" <ross@bisd.ro>:

On 11/26/25 10:11, Leonid Gnezdilov wrote:

Hi!
FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT, Wayland. After the one of upgrade (or after some of my experiments with the system), many applications stopped running. Most applications. Old, probably XWayland, applications work. Telegram-desktop, a rox-terminal, browser was able to run - net-surf.

Errors during launch vary, but almost everything is united by "operation not supported (os error 45)"
Well, yes, Wayland compositors start and work without problems (hyprland, labwc, hikari), errors occur when launching compositors clients - applications.

I am running a Wayland session on FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT pkgbase from a couple of weeks ago and have not seen these errors.

Wayfire is the compositor, and my regular app rotation -- foot, Firefox, Thunderbird -- is as stable as it has been. I am not using XWayland.

If there are specific apps you would like me to check let me know.

Regards,

Ross 

% pkg info -x gpu
gpu-firmware-intel-kmod-tigerlake-20230625.1600003

% pkg info -x drm | grep kmod
drm-latest-kmod-6.9.1600003

Also, here is my relevant environment, excluding XDG.

SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN=gtk3
QT_WAYLAND_DISABLE_WINDOWDECORATION=1
GDK_BACKEND=wayland
SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland
QT_AUTO_SCREEN_SCALE_FACTOR=1
MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1
QT_QPA_PLATFORM=wayland-egl
CLUTTER_BACKEND=wayland
QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=qt5ct
 

TMPDIR is mounted tmpfs since default /tmp size might be too small for programs like Firefox to do anything useful.

 
 
-- 
Sincerely,
Leonid Gnezdilov
INFONICS LLC
+7(4712)770-365
+7(919)210-97-73
 
 
 
-- 
Sincerely,
Leonid Gnezdilov
INFONICS LLC
+7(4712)770-365
+7(919)210-97-73
 
--------------7KPRjOE7nINb6R0H0D76rRsw-- From nobody Wed Dec 10 17:16:14 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dRMnb4xB9z6KshX for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 17:16:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from comdir@infonix.info) Received: from forward502b.mail.yandex.net (forward502b.mail.yandex.net [178.154.239.146]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dRMnb1Z9Zz3hth for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 17:16:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from comdir@infonix.info) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from mail-nwsmtp-mxback-production-main-29.sas.yp-c.yandex.net (mail-nwsmtp-mxback-production-main-29.sas.yp-c.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c24:1a8:0:640:71e1:0]) by forward502b.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTPS id BF47782104; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 20:16:15 +0300 (MSK) Received: from mail.yandex.ru (2a02:6b8:c23:490c:0:640:82e0:0 [2a02:6b8:c23:490c:0:640:82e0:0]) by mail-nwsmtp-mxback-production-main-29.sas.yp-c.yandex.net (mxback/Yandex) with HTTPS id 3GSC7W4xi0U0-TM6LPhkZ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 20:16:15 +0300 X-Yandex-Fwd: 1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infonix.info; s=mail; t=1765386975; bh=LCG6qD/3K1RBlpgEKK0MnCmmhC7WxKa+5t1jWBFk20o=; h=Message-Id:References:Date:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:From; b=HAztI5I+EbllIvMWUMoVwuIqctdM686quwkXjonFl2KznEJ1AnnNcIbzIrp7AHnZ4 rf26tURW8Ra3X2DDX1JB6NLIT+Gb689uUMBK2gtDervMZbfSuoSwS30T82UUdRMSJp LCaTNXjnlLuNjP2rYmwnOAadELkyleCV1AmTFNnw= Received: by mail-sendbernar-production-main-77.sas.yp-c.yandex.net (sendbernar/Yandex) with HTTPS id 2e4608b136b0a0daf39ff17a47314197; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 20:16:14 +0300 From: =?utf-8?B?0JvQtdC+0L3QuNC0INCT0L3QtdC30LTQuNC70L7Qsg==?= To: S. Ross Gohlke , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" In-Reply-To: <8d23d8a6-d862-45ab-b720-9d13700cae3f@bisd.ro> References: <11071764173299@mail.yandex.ru> <200391764598041@mail.yandex.ru> <3644111764683408@mail.yandex.ru> <207781764767464@mail.yandex.ru> <923f73e9-181e-4afa-9686-364fcab88b34@bisd.ro> <48dcc1b8-0157-46c2-803c-2b217a56bf7b@bisd.ro> <115011765277810@mail.yandex.ru> <33091765368936@mail.yandex.ru> <8d23d8a6-d862-45ab-b720-9d13700cae3f@bisd.ro> Subject: Re: operation not supported Wayland List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Yamail [ http://yandex.ru ] 5.0 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2025 20:16:14 +0300 Message-Id: <50091765386451@mail.yandex.ru> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:200350, ipnet:178.154.224.0/19, country:RU] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dRMnb1Z9Zz3hth PGRpdj5ZZXMsIHN1cnByaXNpbmdseSwgaXQgdHVybmVkIG91dCB0byBiZSBlbm91Z2ggdG8gaW5z dGFsbCBvbmUgIm9sZCIgcGFja2FnZSAtICJGcmVlQlNELWtlcm5lbC1nZW5lcmljLTE2IHBhY2th Z2Uuc25hcCAyMDI1MTExMDEwMDExOCIsIEkgY29waWVkIGl0IGZyb20gdGhlIGluc3RhbGxhdGlv biBkaXNrIGltYWdlIGZyb20gMjAyNTExMTAuPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5UaGVyZSBoYXZlIGJlZW4gbm8g Y29uZmxpY3RzIGJldHdlZW4gdGhlIG9sZGVyIGtlcm5lbCBhbmQgdGhlIHVwZGF0ZWQgZW52aXJv bm1lbnQgc28gZmFyLiBPbiB0aGUgY29udHJhcnksIGluIHRoZSBjb21wbGV0ZWx5ICJvbGQiIHN5 c3RlbSBpbiBoeXBybGFuZCB0aGVyZSB3ZXJlIGdyYXBoaWNhbCBhcnRpZmFjdHMgYW5kIHRlYXJp bmcsIGFuZCBpbiB0aGUgIm5ldyIgc3lzdGVtIHdpdGggdGhlICJvbGQiIGNvcmUsIGV2ZXJ5dGhp bmcgaXMgZmluZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBpbWFnZSBvbiB0aGUgc2NyZWVuLjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+wqA8L2Rp dj48ZGl2Pi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS08L2Rpdj48ZGl2PlRvIHdob206IGZyZWVic2QtY3VycmVu dEBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZyAoZnJlZWJzZC1jdXJyZW50QGZyZWVic2Qub3JnICk7PC9kaXY+PGRpdj5T dWJqZWN0OiBvcGVyYXRpb24gbm90IHN1cHBvcnRlZCBieSBXYXlsYW5kOzwvZGl2PjxkaXY+MTAu MTIuMjAyNSwgMTg6MDksICJTLiBSb3NzIEdvaGxrZSIgJmx0O3Jvc3NAYmlzZC5ybyZndDs6PC9k aXY+PGJsb2NrcXVvdGU+PHA+wqA8L3A+PGRpdj5PbiAxMi8xMC8yNSAwNjoyNiwgTGVvbmlkIEdu ZXpkaWxvdiB3cm90ZTo8L2Rpdj48YmxvY2txdW90ZT48ZGl2PldlbGwsIGV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgZmVs bCBpbnRvIHBsYWNlIC0gaGFyZHdhcmUgYWNjZWxlcmF0aW9uIGluIHdheWxhbmQgc3RvcHBlZCB3 b3JraW5nIG9uIGNvcmVzIGJ1aWx0IGFmdGVyIGFib3V0IE5vdmVtYmVyIDI0LsKgQWxhY3JpdHR5 IGRlZmluaXRlbHkgdXNlcyBoYXJkd2FyZSBhY2NlbGVyYXRpb24gKG1vc3QgbGlrZWx5IE9wZW5H TCkgb2YgRmlyZWZveCB0b28uIE5vdyB0aGUgY29vbCBzcGVjaWFsaXN0cyBoYXZlIHRvIGdldCBp bnZvbHZlZCBhbmQgZml4IGV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcpIEkgZm91bmQgYW5kIGluc3RhbGxlZCB0aGUgRnJl ZUJTRC1rZXJuZWwtZ2VuZXJpYy0xNiBwYWNrYWdlLnNuYXAyMDI1MTExMDEwMDExOCBhbmQgZXZl cnl0aGluZyB3b3JrZWQgYXMgYmVmb3JlLiBOb3cgaXQgbXVzdCBiZSBmcm96ZW4gc28gdGhhdCBp dCBpcyBub3QgdXBkYXRlZC48L2Rpdj48L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+VGhhbmtzIGZvciBpZGVudGlmeWlu ZyB0aGUgc29sdXRpb24gc28gc3VjY2luY3RseS48cD5EaWQgeW91IG9ubHkgZG93bmdyYWRlIHRo ZSBrZXJuZWw/IElzIHRoZSByZXN0IG9mIHlvdXIgYmFzZSBuZXdlcj8gSSBoYXZlIGEgY3VzdG9t IGtlcm5lbCBzbyBJIHdpbGwgbmVlZCBGcmVlQlNELXNldC1zcmMsIGFsdGhvdWdoIEkgbWlnaHQg aGF2ZSBhIGJhY2t1cCBpbiB0aGlzIGNhc2UuPC9wPjxibG9ja3F1b3RlPjxkaXY+U3BlY2lhbCB0 aGFua3MgdG8gUm9zcywgYXBwYXJlbnRseSBvbmx5IHRoZSB0d28gb2YgdXMgd2lsbCB1c2UgV2F5 bGFuZCBvbiBGcmVlQlNEKSkgwqA8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PkJ5IHRoZSB3YXksIFJvc3MsIGNvdWxkIHlv dSB0cnkgaW5zdGFsbGluZyBhbGFjcml0dHk/IFRvIHJlcGVhdCB0aGUgYnVnLjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+ TGV0IG1lIHJlbWluZCB5b3UgdGhhdCBJIHdhcyBhYmxlIHRvIHJlcGVhdCB0aGlzIGVycm9yIG9u IHR3byBtb3RoZXJib2FyZHMgd2l0aCBpbnRlbCBlYXJseSBnZW5lcmF0aW9ucyAoaTkxNWttcyks IHdpdGggYW4gZXh0ZXJuYWwgZ3JhcGhpY3MgY2FyZCAocmFkZW9ua21zKSBhbmQgb24gYSBtb3Ro ZXJib2FyZCB3aXRoIFJ5emVuIDMoYW1kZ3B1KTwvZGl2PjxkaXY+wqA8L2Rpdj48ZGl2Pi0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS08L2Rpdj48ZGl2PlRvIHdob206IDxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpmcmVlYnNkLWN1 cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmciIHJlbD0ibm9vcGVuZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJlciI+ZnJlZWJzZC1jdXJy ZW50QGZyZWVic2Qub3JnPC9hPiAoPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOmZyZWVic2QtY3VycmVudEBmcmVl YnNkLm9yZyIgcmVsPSJub29wZW5lciBub3JlZmVycmVyIj5mcmVlYnNkLWN1cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJz ZC5vcmc8L2E+ICk7PC9kaXY+PGRpdj5TdWJqZWN0OiBvcGVyYXRpb24gbm90IHN1cHBvcnRlZCBi eSBXYXlsYW5kOzwvZGl2PjxkaXY+MDkuMTIuMjAyNSwgMTk6MDUsICJTLiBSb3NzIEdvaGxrZSIg PGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOnJvc3NAYmlzZC5ybyIgcmVsPSJub29wZW5lciBub3JlZmVycmVyIj4m bHQ7cm9zc0BiaXNkLnJvJmd0OzwvYT46PC9kaXY+PGJsb2NrcXVvdGU+PHA+wqA8L3A+PGRpdj5P biAxMi85LzI1IDA1OjA0LCBMZW9uaWQgR25lemRpbG92IHdyb3RlOjwvZGl2PjxibG9ja3F1b3Rl PjxkaXY+U28hIEkgaGF2ZSBkb25lIHJlc2VhcmNoIGFuZCBpbnZlc3RpZ2F0aW9uKSkgSSBmb3Vu ZCBvdXQgdGhhdCB0aGUgc3lzdGVtIGluc3RhbGxlZCBmcm9tIHRoZSBpbWFnZSAoZGF0ZSAyMDI1 MTExMCkgcnVucyBhbGwgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIGluIHdheWxhbmQuIMKgSSBjaGVja2VkIG9uIDQg bW90aGVyYm9hcmRzIHdpdGggaTkxNWttcyAoa2FieSBsYWtlIGFuZCBzb21lIG90aGVyIGxha2Up KSkgcmFkZW9ua21zIGFuZCBhbWRncHUuIFN0YXJ0aW5nIGZyb20gMjAyNTExMjQgLSAib3BlcmF0 aW9uIG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0ZWQiLiBvbiBhbnkgaGFyZHdhcmUhIFlvdSBqdXN0IHVwZGF0ZSB0aGUg d29ya2luZyBzeXN0ZW0gYW5kIGdldCBhIG5vbi13b3JraW5nIGZpcmVmb3gsIGZvciBleGFtcGxl LiAoSW4gZ2VuZXJhbCwgbW9zdCBvZiB0aGUgc29mdHdhcmUgZG9lcyBub3Qgd29yaywgYnV0IHRo ZSBjb21wb3NlcnMgdGhlbXNlbHZlcyBkbykuPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5JdCdzIHRoZSBzYW1lIGluIDE1 LVN0YWJsZS48L2Rpdj48ZGl2PjxkaXY+Uy4gUm9zcyBHb2hsa2UgLSBjb3VsZCB5b3UgdXBncmFk ZSB0aGUgc3lzdGVtIGFuZCBnaXZlIGl0IGEgdHJ5PzwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT48 cD5JIHVwZ3JhZGVkIGZyb20gMjAyNTExMDYgdG8gMjAyNTEyMDQgYW5kIEkgZGlkIHJ1biBpbnRv IGEgcHJvYmxlbSAtLSBJIHdhcyBnb2luZyB0byB0cnkgMjAyNTEyMDUgYmVmb3JlIEkgcmVwb3J0 ZWQgYW55dGhpbmcsIGJ1dCBub3QgdGhlcmUgeWV0LjwvcD48cD5BZnRlciB1cGdyYWRlLCBGaXJl Zm94IChhbmQgVGh1bmRlcmJpcmQpIHJlZnVzZWQgdG8gbGF1bmNoIGZyb20gdGhlIG1lbnUuIElu IGEgcGFuaWMsIEkgY29tcGlsZWQgRmlyZWZveCBmcm9tIHBvcnRzIGFuZCBnb3QgdGhlIHNhbWUg cmVzdWx0LCBidXQgdGhpcyB0aW1lIEkgdHJpZWQgcnVubmluZyBpdCBhIHNlY29uZCB0aW1lIGRp cmVjdGx5IGZyb20gdGhlIHRlcm1pbmFsIGFuZCBpdCBnYXZlIG1lIGEgZGlhbG9nIHdpbmRvdyBv ZmZlcmluZyB0byBsYXVuY2ggaW4gU2FmZSBNb2RlLCB3aGljaCB3b3JrZWQuIFNhZmUgTW9kZSBk aXNhYmxlcyBhbGwgZXh0ZW5zaW9ucywgaGFyZHdhcmUgYWNjZWxlcmF0aW9uIGFuZCBzb21ldGhp bmcgZWxzZS48L3A+PHA+TXkgZXh0ZW5zaW9ucyB3ZXJlIGZpbmUsIGJ1dCBJIGhhZCB0byBkaXNh YmxlIGhhcmR3YXJlIGFjY2VsZXJhdGlvbiB0byBnZXQgRmlyZWZveCB0byBsYXVuY2ggbm9ybWFs bHk6PC9wPjxwPlNldHRpbmdzICZndDsgR2VuZXJhbCAmZ3Q7IFBlcmZvcm1hbmNlPC9wPjxwPsKg IMKgIFVuY2hlY2sgIlVzZSByZWNvbW1lbmRlZCBwZXJmb3JtYW5jZSBzZXR0aW5ncyI8L3A+PHA+ wqAgwqAgwqAgwqAgVW5jaGVjayAiVXNlIGhhcmR3YXJlIGFjY2VsZXJhdGlvbiB3aGVuIGF2YWls YWJsZSI8L3A+PHA+SSBoYXZlIG5ldmVyIHNlZW4gdGhpcyBzZXR0aW5nLCBJIGhhdmUgbmV2ZXIg dXNlZCB0aGlzIHNldHRpbmcsIEkgZG9uJ3Qga25vdyBpZiB0aGlzIGlzIGR1ZSB0byBhIGNoYW5n ZSBpbiBGcmVlQlNEIG9yIEZpcmVmb3ggb3IgYm90aC48L3A+PHA+SXQgd2FzIHRoZSBzYW1lIHN0 b3J5IHdpdGggVGh1bmRlcmJpcmQsIGJ1dCBUaHVuZGVyYmlyZCBkaWQgbm90IHByZWVtcHRpdmVs eSBwcm92aWRlIGEgU2FmZSBNb2RlIGRpYWxvZyB3aGVuIHJ1biBmcm9tIHRoZSB0ZXJtaW5hbC4g SSBoYWQgdG8gcnVuICJ0aHVuZGVyYmlyZCAtLXNhZmUtbW9kZSIgdG8gb3BlbiBpdCBzbyBJIGNv dWxkIGRpc2FibGUgaGFyZHdhcmUgYWNjZWxlcmF0aW9uLjwvcD48cD5Tb21lIGJhY2tncm91bmQg b24gbXkgc3lzdGVtOiBMZW5vdm8gVGhpbmtQYWQgRTE0LCBJbnRlbCBDb3JlIGk1LTExMzVHNzwv cD48cD48YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86dmdhcGNpMEBwY2kwIiByZWw9Im5vb3BlbmVyIG5vcmVmZXJy ZXIiPnZnYXBjaTBAcGNpMDwvYT46MDoyOjA6wqAgwqAgwqBjbGFzcz0weDAzMDAwMCByZXY9MHgw MSBoZHI9MHgwMCB2ZW5kb3I9MHg4MDg2IGRldmljZT0weDlhNDkgc3VidmVuZG9yPTB4MTdhYSBz dWJkZXZpY2U9MHg1MDg4PGJyIC8+wqAgwqAgdmVuZG9ywqAgwqAgwqA9ICdJbnRlbCBDb3Jwb3Jh dGlvbic8YnIgLz7CoCDCoCBkZXZpY2XCoCDCoCDCoD0gJ1RpZ2VyTGFrZS1MUCBHVDIgW0lyaXMg WGUgR3JhcGhpY3NdJzxiciAvPsKgIMKgIGNsYXNzwqAgwqAgwqAgPSBkaXNwbGF5PGJyIC8+wqAg wqAgc3ViY2xhc3PCoCDCoD0gVkdBPC9wPjxwPkFjY29yZGluZyB0byBMZW5vdm8sIGhlcmU6PC9w PjxwPjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHBzOi8vcHNyZWYubGVub3ZvLmNvbS9zeXNwb29sL1N5cy9QREYvVGhp bmtQYWQvVGhpbmtQYWRfRTE0X0dlbl8yX0ludGVsL1RoaW5rUGFkX0UxNF9HZW5fMl9JbnRlbF9T cGVjLnBkZiIgcmVsPSJub29wZW5lciBub3JlZmVycmVyIj5odHRwczovL3BzcmVmLmxlbm92by5j b20vc3lzcG9vbC9TeXMvUERGL1RoaW5rUGFkL1RoaW5rUGFkX0UxNF9HZW5fMl9JbnRlbC9UaGlu a1BhZF9FMTRfR2VuXzJfSW50ZWxfU3BlYy5wZGY8L2E+PC9wPjxwPsKgIMKgIEludGVsIElyaXMg WGUgR3JhcGhpY3MgY2FwYWJpbGl0eSByZXF1aXJlcyBzeXN0ZW0gdG8gYmUgY29uZmlndXJlZCB3 aXRoIGR1YWwtY2hhbm5lbCBtZW1vcnkuIE9uIHRoZSBzeXN0ZW0gd2l0aCBzaW5nbGUtY2hhbm5l bCBtZW1vcnksIEludGVsIElyaXMgWGUgR3JhcGhpY3Mgd2lsbCBmdW5jdGlvbiBhcyBJbnRlbCBV SEQgR3JhcGhpY3M8L3A+PHA+U2luY2UgRTE0IG9ubHkgaGFzIG9uZSBtZW1vcnkgc2xvdCwgSSBt dXN0IGJlIGNvbnNpZ25lZCB0byBVSEQgR3JhcGhpY3MsIGJ1dCBJIGhhdmUgbm8gY2x1ZSBhcyB0 byB0aGUgaW1wbGljYXRpb25zLjwvcD48cD5UaGUgZmluYWwgaW1wb3J0YW50IGRldGFpbCBpcyB0 aGF0IEkgcmVjZW50bHkgdXBncmFkZWQgZnJvbSAxNkdCIHRvIDMyR0IgKHVzZWQpIFJBTSwgYWZ0 ZXIgdXBncmFkZSB0byAyMDI1MTEwNiBidXQgYmVmb3JlIHVwZ3JhZGUgdG8gMjAyNTEyMDQuPC9w PjxwPlJlZ2FyZHMsPC9wPjxwPlJvc3M8L3A+PGJsb2NrcXVvdGU+PGRpdj4tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5UbyB3aG9tOiA8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86ZnJlZWJzZC1jdXJyZW50QGZy ZWVic2Qub3JnIiByZWw9Im5vb3BlbmVyIG5vcmVmZXJyZXIiPmZyZWVic2QtY3VycmVudEBmcmVl YnNkLm9yZzwvYT4gKDxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpmcmVlYnNkLWN1cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmci IHJlbD0ibm9vcGVuZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJlciI+ZnJlZWJzZC1jdXJyZW50QGZyZWVic2Qub3JnPC9h PiApOzwvZGl2PjxkaXY+U3ViamVjdDogb3BlcmF0aW9uIG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0ZWQgYnkgV2F5bGFu ZDs8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PjA0LjEyLjIwMjUsIDE2OjUxLCAiUy4gUm9zcyBHb2hsa2UiIDxhIGhyZWY9 Im1haWx0bzpyb3NzQGJpc2Qucm8iIHJlbD0ibm9vcGVuZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJlciI+Jmx0O3Jvc3NA YmlzZC5ybyZndDs8L2E+OjwvZGl2PjxibG9ja3F1b3RlPjxwPsKgPC9wPjxkaXY+T24gMTIvNC8y NSAwNzoyNiwgUy4gUm9zcyBHb2hsa2Ugd3JvdGU6PC9kaXY+PGJsb2NrcXVvdGU+PGRpdj5PbiAx Mi8zLzI1IDA3OjIzLCBMZW9uaWQgR25lemRpbG92IHdyb3RlOjwvZGl2PjxibG9ja3F1b3RlPjxk aXY+WW91IHdvbid0IGJlbGlldmUgaXQgLSBJIGluc3RhbGxlZCAxNS4wLVNUQUJMRSBhbmQgdGhl IHNhbWUgdGhpbmcgaGFwcGVuZWQgYWdhaW4uIEknbSBhbHJlYWR5IHN0YXJ0aW5nIHRvIHRoaW5r IGl0J3MgdGhlIGNvbXB1dGVyIGhhcmR3YXJlLiBBbHRob3VnaCBpdCB3b3JrZWQgdW50aWwgMTEv MjQvMjAyNS48L2Rpdj48ZGl2PkdQVS1maXJtd2FyZS1pbnRlbC1rbW9kLWdlbWluaWxha2UgYW5k IGk5MTVfa21zIGFyZSB1c2VkIChkaWZmZXJlbnQgdmVyc2lvbnMsIGxhdGVzdCwgNjEsIDUxNSk8 L2Rpdj48ZGl2Pi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS08L2Rpdj48ZGl2PlRvOiBTLiBSb3NzIEdvaGxrZSAo PGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOnJvc3NAYmlzZC5ybyIgcmVsPSJub29wZW5lciBub3JlZmVycmVyIj5y b3NzQGJpc2Qucm88L2E+ICksIDxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpmcmVlYnNkLWN1cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJz ZC5vcmciIHJlbD0ibm9vcGVuZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJlciI+ZnJlZWJzZC1jdXJyZW50QGZyZWVic2Qu b3JnPC9hPiAoPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOmZyZWVic2QtY3VycmVudEBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZyIgcmVs PSJub29wZW5lciBub3JlZmVycmVyIj5mcmVlYnNkLWN1cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc8L2E+ICk7 PC9kaXY+PGRpdj5TdWJqZWN0OiBvcGVyYXRpb24gbm90IHN1cHBvcnRlZCBieSBXYXlsYW5kOzwv ZGl2PjxkaXY+MDIuMTIuMjAyNSwgMTc6MDUsICJMZW9uaWQgR25lemRpbG92IiA8YSBocmVmPSJt YWlsdG86Y29tZGlyQGluZm9uaXguaW5mbyIgcmVsPSJub29wZW5lciBub3JlZmVycmVyIj4mbHQ7 Y29tZGlyQGluZm9uaXguaW5mbyAmZ3Q7PC9hPjo8L2Rpdj48YmxvY2txdW90ZT48ZGl2PkkgaW5z dGFsbGVkIHRoZSBzeXN0ZW0gYWdhaW4gdG9kYXksIG9uIGEgZGlmZmVyZW50IGRpc2suIEFuZCBp dCBkb2Vzbid0IHdvcmshIEV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgaXMgZXhhY3RseSB0aGUgc2FtZSwgIm9wZXJhdGlv biBub3Qgc3VwcG9ydGVkIi4gU28gaXQgd2Fzbid0IG1lIHdobyBicm9rZSB0aGUgc3lzdGVtLCBi dXQgdGhlIHVwZGF0ZS5DYW4gdGhpcyBhbHJlYWR5IGJlIGNvbnNpZGVyZWQgYSBidWc/PC9kaXY+ PGRpdj5EdXJpbmcgdGhlIGluc3RhbGxhdGlvbiwgSSBzZWxlY3RlZCB0aGUgaW5zdGFsbGF0aW9u IGZyb20gdGhlIHBhY2thZ2VzICh0ZWNoIHByZXZpZXcpLCBtYXliZSB0aGlzIHdpbGwgaGVscCBp biB0aGUgZGlhZ25vc2lzPyBUaGUgZHJtLWxhdGVzdCBtb2R1bGUsIEkgdHJpZWQgZHJtLTUxNSwg YnV0IGl0IGRvZXNuJ3QgaGVscC4gwqA8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PsKgPC9kaXY+PGRpdj4tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5UbzogUy4gUm9zcyBHb2hsa2UgKDxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpyb3Nz QGJpc2Qucm8iIHJlbD0ibm9vcGVuZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJlciI+cm9zc0BiaXNkLnJvPC9hPiApLCA8 YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86ZnJlZWJzZC1jdXJyZW50QGZyZWVic2Qub3JnIiByZWw9Im5vb3BlbmVy IG5vcmVmZXJyZXIiPmZyZWVic2QtY3VycmVudEBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZzwvYT4gKDxhIGhyZWY9Im1h aWx0bzpmcmVlYnNkLWN1cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmciIHJlbD0ibm9vcGVuZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJl ciI+ZnJlZWJzZC1jdXJyZW50QGZyZWVic2Qub3JnPC9hPiApOzwvZGl2PjxkaXY+U3ViamVjdDog b3BlcmF0aW9uIG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0ZWQgYnkgV2F5bGFuZDs8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PjEyLzAxLzIwMjUs IDE3OjE1IHAubS4sICJMZW9uaWQgR25lemRpbG92IiAmbHQ7PGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOmNvbWRp ckBpbmZvbml4LmluZm8iIHJlbD0ibm9vcGVuZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJlciI+Y29tZGlyQGluZm9uaXgu aW5mbzwvYT4gJmd0Ozo8L2Rpdj48YmxvY2txdW90ZT48ZGl2PjxkaXY+VG9kYXkgSSB0cmllZCB0 byByZW1vdmUgbW9zdCBvZiB0aGUgcGFja2FnZXMsIGJ1dCBJIHdhcyBhbG1vc3QgbGVmdCB3aXRo b3V0IHBrZykpIFRoZSByZXN1bHQgd2FzIGEgc3lzdGVtIHdpdGggZmV3ZXIgcGFja2FnZXMgdGhh biB3aXRoIHRoZSBuZXcgaW5zdGFsbGF0aW9uLiBSZWluc3RhbGxlZCB3YXlsYW5kLiBBbmQgd2hh dCBkbyB5b3UgdGhpbms/IEV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgaXMgdGhlIHNhbWUsIG1vc3QgYXBwbGljYXRpb25z IHN3ZWFyIG9uICJvcGVyYXRpb24gbm90IHN1cHBvcnRlZCIgSW5zdGFsbGVkIGZvb3QgYW5kIHdh eWZpcmUuIEJ5IHRoZSB3YXksIHRoZXkgd29yay4gQnV0IGZpcmVmb3ggaXMgbm90LiBJIGRpc2Nv dmVyZWQgdGhhdCBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgdGhhdCBkbyBub3QgcnVuIHVzZSBsaWJtLnNvLjUsIGJ1 dCBkbyBub3Qgc2VlbSB0byB1c2UgcnVubmluZyBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMuIE5vIG90aGVyIGRpZmZl cmVuY2VzIGFyZSB2aXNpYmxlIHlldC4gSeKAmWxsIHRyeSB0byBjb21wYXJlIG9uIGdpdGh1YiBm b290IGFuZCBhbGFjcml0dHkgdGhpcyBldmVuaW5nLCBtYXliZSBJ4oCZbGwgZmluZCBzb21lIGtp bmQgb2YgcGF0dGVybi4gVG9tb3Jyb3cgaXTigJlzIHRpbWUgdG8gdHJ5IHRvIHJlaW5zdGFsbCB0 aGUgc3lzdGVtKSk8L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2PsKgPC9kaXY+PGRpdj7CoDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+LS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLTwvZGl2PjxkaXY+VG8gd2hvbTogPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOmZyZWVic2Qt Y3VycmVudEBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZyIgcmVsPSJub29wZW5lciBub3JlZmVycmVyIj5mcmVlYnNkLWN1 cnJlbnRAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc8L2E+ICg8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86ZnJlZWJzZC1jdXJyZW50QGZy ZWVic2Qub3JnIiByZWw9Im5vb3BlbmVyIG5vcmVmZXJyZXIiPmZyZWVic2QtY3VycmVudEBmcmVl YnNkLm9yZzwvYT4gKTs8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PlN1YmplY3Q6IG9wZXJhdGlvbiBub3Qgc3VwcG9ydGVk IGJ5IFdheWxhbmQ7PC9kaXY+PGRpdj4yNy4xMS4yMDI1LCAxOTo0NCwgIlMuIFJvc3MgR29obGtl IiAmbHQ7PGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOnJvc3NAYmlzZC5ybyIgcmVsPSJub29wZW5lciBub3JlZmVy cmVyIj5yb3NzQGJpc2Qucm88L2E+Jmd0Ozo8L2Rpdj48YmxvY2txdW90ZT48cD5PbiAxMS8yNi8y NSAxMDoxMSwgTGVvbmlkIEduZXpkaWxvdiB3cm90ZTo8L3A+PGJsb2NrcXVvdGU+PGRpdj48ZGl2 PjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImJveC1zaXppbmc6Ym9yZGVyLWJveCI+PGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iYm9yZGVyLXJh ZGl1czowcHggM3B4IDNweCAwcHg7Ym94LXNpemluZzpib3JkZXItYm94O21pbi13aWR0aDowcHg7 cGFkZGluZzoxMHB4O3ZlcnRpY2FsLWFsaWduOnRvcDt3aWR0aDoxNDIyLjM5cHgiPjxkaXYgc3R5 bGU9ImJveC1zaXppbmc6Ym9yZGVyLWJveDtoZWlnaHQ6MTU2LjU0N3B4Ij48ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJi b3gtc2l6aW5nOmJvcmRlci1ib3g7bWluLWhlaWdodDoxcHgiPjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImJveC1zaXpp bmc6Ym9yZGVyLWJveCI+PGRpdj48ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJib3gtc2l6aW5nOmJvcmRlci1ib3giPjxk aXYgc3R5bGU9ImJveC1zaXppbmc6Ym9yZGVyLWJveCI+SGkhPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iYm94 LXNpemluZzpib3JkZXItYm94Ij5GcmVlQlNEIDE2LjAtQ1VSUkVOVCwgV2F5bGFuZC4gQWZ0ZXIg dGhlIG9uZSBvZiB1cGdyYWRlIChvciBhZnRlciBzb21lIG9mIG15IGV4cGVyaW1lbnRzIHdpdGgg dGhlIHN5c3RlbSksIG1hbnkgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIHN0b3BwZWQgcnVubmluZy4gTW9zdCBhcHBs aWNhdGlvbnMuIE9sZCwgcHJvYmFibHkgWFdheWxhbmQsIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucyB3b3JrLiBUZWxl Z3JhbS1kZXNrdG9wLCBhIHJveC10ZXJtaW5hbCwgYnJvd3NlciB3YXMgYWJsZSB0byBydW4gLSBu ZXQtc3VyZi48YnIgc3R5bGU9ImJveC1zaXppbmc6Ym9yZGVyLWJveDttYXJnaW4tdG9wOjBweCIg Lz48YnIgc3R5bGU9ImJveC1zaXppbmc6Ym9yZGVyLWJveCIgLz5FcnJvcnMgZHVyaW5nIGxhdW5j aCB2YXJ5LCBidXQgYWxtb3N0IGV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgaXMgdW5pdGVkIGJ5ICJvcGVyYXRpb24gbm90 IHN1cHBvcnRlZCAob3MgZXJyb3IgNDUpIjwvZGl2PjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImJveC1zaXppbmc6Ym9y ZGVyLWJveCI+V2VsbCwgeWVzLCBXYXlsYW5kIGNvbXBvc2l0b3JzIHN0YXJ0IGFuZCB3b3JrIHdp dGhvdXQgcHJvYmxlbXMgKGh5cHJsYW5kLCBsYWJ3YywgaGlrYXJpKSwgZXJyb3JzIG9jY3VyIHdo ZW4gbGF1bmNoaW5nIGNvbXBvc2l0b3JzIGNsaWVudHMgLSBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMuPC9kaXY+PC9k aXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9ibG9j a3F1b3RlPjxwPkkgYW0gcnVubmluZyBhIFdheWxhbmQgc2Vzc2lvbiBvbiBGcmVlQlNEIDE2LjAt Q1VSUkVOVCBwa2diYXNlIGZyb20gYSBjb3VwbGUgb2Ygd2Vla3MgYWdvIGFuZCBoYXZlIG5vdCBz ZWVuIHRoZXNlIGVycm9ycy48L3A+PHA+V2F5ZmlyZSBpcyB0aGUgY29tcG9zaXRvciwgYW5kIG15 IHJlZ3VsYXIgYXBwIHJvdGF0aW9uIC0tIGZvb3QsIEZpcmVmb3gsIFRodW5kZXJiaXJkIC0tIGlz IGFzIHN0YWJsZSBhcyBpdCBoYXMgYmVlbi4gSSBhbSBub3QgdXNpbmcgWFdheWxhbmQuPC9wPjxw PklmIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBzcGVjaWZpYyBhcHBzIHlvdSB3b3VsZCBsaWtlIG1lIHRvIGNoZWNrIGxl dCBtZSBrbm93LjwvcD48cD5SZWdhcmRzLDwvcD48cD5Sb3NzwqA8L3A+PC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPjwv YmxvY2txdW90ZT48L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+PC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPjxwPiUgcGtnIGluZm8gLXggZ3B1 PGJyIC8+Z3B1LWZpcm13YXJlLWludGVsLWttb2QtdGlnZXJsYWtlLTIwMjMwNjI1LjE2MDAwMDM8 L3A+PHA+JSBwa2cgaW5mbyAteCBkcm0gfCBncmVwIGttb2Q8YnIgLz5kcm0tbGF0ZXN0LWttb2Qt Ni45LjE2MDAwMDM8L3A+PC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPjxwPkFsc28sIGhlcmUgaXMgbXkgcmVsZXZhbnQg ZW52aXJvbm1lbnQsIGV4Y2x1ZGluZyBYREcuPC9wPjxwPlNBTF9VU0VfVkNMUExVR0lOPWd0azM8 YnIgLz5RVF9XQVlMQU5EX0RJU0FCTEVfV0lORE9XREVDT1JBVElPTj0xPGJyIC8+R0RLX0JBQ0tF TkQ9d2F5bGFuZDxiciAvPlNETF9WSURFT0RSSVZFUj13YXlsYW5kPGJyIC8+UVRfQVVUT19TQ1JF RU5fU0NBTEVfRkFDVE9SPTE8YnIgLz5NT1pfRU5BQkxFX1dBWUxBTkQ9MTxiciAvPlFUX1FQQV9Q TEFURk9STT13YXlsYW5kLWVnbDxiciAvPkNMVVRURVJfQkFDS0VORD13YXlsYW5kPGJyIC8+UVRf UVBBX1BMQVRGT1JNVEhFTUU9cXQ1Y3Q8YnIgLz7CoDwvcD48cD5UTVBESVIgaXMgbW91bnRlZCB0 bXBmcyBzaW5jZSBkZWZhdWx0IC90bXAgc2l6ZSBtaWdodCBiZSB0b28gc21hbGwgZm9yIHByb2dy YW1zIGxpa2UgRmlyZWZveCB0byBkbyBhbnl0aGluZyB1c2VmdWwuPC9wPjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT48 ZGl2PsKgPC9kaXY+PGRpdj7CoDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29s b3I6I2ZmZmZmZjtjb2xvcjojNjY2NjY2O2Zsb2F0Om5vbmU7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNl O2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFs aWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6bm9ybWFsIj4tLcKgPC9z cGFuPjxiciBzdHlsZT0iYmFja2dyb3VuZC1jb2xvcjpyZ2IoIDI1NSAsIDI1NSAsIDI1NSApO2Nv bG9yOnJnYiggMTAyICwgMTAyICwgMTAyICk7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6 ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0 O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6bm9ybWFsIiAvPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJi YWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOiNmZmZmZmY7Y29sb3I6IzY2NjY2Njtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3Bh Y2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQt YWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3dyYXAiPlNpbmNl cmVseSw8L3NwYW4+PGJyIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOnJnYiggMjU1ICwgMjU1ICwg MjU1ICk7Y29sb3I6cmdiKCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgKTtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7 Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxp Z246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3JtYWwiIC8+PHNwYW4g c3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6I2ZmZmZmZjtjb2xvcjojNjY2NjY2O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5 Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0 MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vd3Jh cCI+TGVvbmlkwqBHbmV6ZGlsb3Y8L3NwYW4+PGJyIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOnJn YiggMjU1ICwgMjU1ICwgMjU1ICk7Y29sb3I6cmdiKCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgKTtmb250LWZh bWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWln aHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpu b3JtYWwiIC8+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6I2ZmZmZmZjtjb2xvcjojNjY2 NjY2O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1h bDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3do aXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vd3JhcCI+SU5GT05JQ1MgTExDPC9zcGFuPjxiciBzdHlsZT0iYmFja2dyb3Vu ZC1jb2xvcjpyZ2IoIDI1NSAsIDI1NSAsIDI1NSApO2NvbG9yOnJnYiggMTAyICwgMTAyICwgMTAy ICk7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFs O2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hp dGUtc3BhY2U6bm9ybWFsIiAvPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOiNmZmZmZmY7 Y29sb3I6IzY2NjY2Njtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1z dHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zv cm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3dyYXAiPis3KDQ3MTIpNzcwLTM2NTwvc3Bhbj48YnIgc3R5 bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6cmdiKCAyNTUgLCAyNTUgLCAyNTUgKTtjb2xvcjpyZ2IoIDEw MiAsIDEwMiAsIDEwMiApO2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250 LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5z Zm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vcm1hbCIgLz48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iYmFja2dyb3VuZC1j b2xvcjojZmZmZmZmO2NvbG9yOiM2NjY2NjY7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6 ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0 O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6bm93cmFwIj4rNyg5MTkpMjEwLTk3LTcz PC9zcGFuPjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+wqA8L2Rpdj48L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+PC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPjxkaXY+ wqA8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PsKgPC9kaXY+PGRpdj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iYmFja2dyb3VuZC1jb2xvcjoj ZmZmZmZmO2NvbG9yOiM2NjY2NjY7ZmxvYXQ6bm9uZTtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9u dC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246 c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3JtYWwiPi0twqA8L3NwYW4+ PGJyIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOnJnYiggMjU1ICwgMjU1ICwgMjU1ICk7Y29sb3I6 cmdiKCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgKTtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEy cHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4 dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3JtYWwiIC8+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tn cm91bmQtY29sb3I6I2ZmZmZmZjtjb2xvcjojNjY2NjY2O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtm b250LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGln bjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vd3JhcCI+U2luY2VyZWx5 LDwvc3Bhbj48YnIgc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6cmdiKCAyNTUgLCAyNTUgLCAyNTUg KTtjb2xvcjpyZ2IoIDEwMiAsIDEwMiAsIDEwMiApO2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250 LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpz dGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vcm1hbCIgLz48c3BhbiBzdHls ZT0iYmFja2dyb3VuZC1jb2xvcjojZmZmZmZmO2NvbG9yOiM2NjY2NjY7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9u b3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0 ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6bm93cmFwIj5M ZW9uaWTCoEduZXpkaWxvdjwvc3Bhbj48YnIgc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6cmdiKCAy NTUgLCAyNTUgLCAyNTUgKTtjb2xvcjpyZ2IoIDEwMiAsIDEwMiAsIDEwMiApO2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5 Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0 MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vcm1h bCIgLz48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iYmFja2dyb3VuZC1jb2xvcjojZmZmZmZmO2NvbG9yOiM2NjY2NjY7 Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2Zv bnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUt c3BhY2U6bm93cmFwIj5JTkZPTklDUyBMTEM8L3NwYW4+PGJyIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNv bG9yOnJnYiggMjU1ICwgMjU1ICwgMjU1ICk7Y29sb3I6cmdiKCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgKTtm b250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9u dC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1z cGFjZTpub3JtYWwiIC8+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6I2ZmZmZmZjtjb2xv cjojNjY2NjY2O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxl Om5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpu b25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vd3JhcCI+KzcoNDcxMik3NzAtMzY1PC9zcGFuPjxiciBzdHlsZT0i YmFja2dyb3VuZC1jb2xvcjpyZ2IoIDI1NSAsIDI1NSAsIDI1NSApO2NvbG9yOnJnYiggMTAyICwg MTAyICwgMTAyICk7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5 bGU6bm9ybWFsO2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3Jt Om5vbmU7d2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6bm9ybWFsIiAvPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9y OiNmZmZmZmY7Y29sb3I6IzY2NjY2Njtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEy cHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4 dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3dyYXAiPis3KDkxOSkyMTAtOTctNzM8L3Nw YW4+PC9kaXY+PGRpdj7CoDwvZGl2PjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT48L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+PGRpdj7CoDwv ZGl2PjxkaXY+wqA8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOiNmZmZm ZmY7Y29sb3I6IzY2NjY2NjtkaXNwbGF5OmlubGluZSAhaW1wb3J0YW50O2Zsb2F0Om5vbmU7Zm9u dC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2ZvbnQt d2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUtc3Bh Y2U6bm9ybWFsIj4tLcKgPC9zcGFuPjxiciBzdHlsZT0iYmFja2dyb3VuZC1jb2xvcjpyZ2IoIDI1 NSAsIDI1NSAsIDI1NSApO2NvbG9yOnJnYiggMTAyICwgMTAyICwgMTAyICk7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6 bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQw MDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6bm9ybWFs IiAvPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOiNmZmZmZmY7Y29sb3I6IzY2NjY2Njtm b250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9u dC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1z cGFjZTpub3dyYXAiPlNpbmNlcmVseSw8L3NwYW4+PGJyIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9y OnJnYiggMjU1ICwgMjU1ICwgMjU1ICk7Y29sb3I6cmdiKCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgLCAxMDIgKTtmb250 LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13 ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFj ZTpub3JtYWwiIC8+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6I2ZmZmZmZjtjb2xvcjoj NjY2NjY2O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5v cm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25l O3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vd3JhcCI+TGVvbmlkwqBHbmV6ZGlsb3Y8L3NwYW4+PGJyIHN0eWxlPSJi YWNrZ3JvdW5kLWNvbG9yOnJnYiggMjU1ICwgMjU1ICwgMjU1ICk7Y29sb3I6cmdiKCAxMDIgLCAx MDIgLCAxMDIgKTtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9udC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1zdHls ZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06 bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3JtYWwiIC8+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6 I2ZmZmZmZjtjb2xvcjojNjY2NjY2O2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtmb250LXNpemU6MTJw eDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGlnbjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0 LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vd3JhcCI+SU5GT05JQ1MgTExDPC9zcGFuPjxi ciBzdHlsZT0iYmFja2dyb3VuZC1jb2xvcjpyZ2IoIDI1NSAsIDI1NSAsIDI1NSApO2NvbG9yOnJn YiggMTAyICwgMTAyICwgMTAyICk7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4 O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQwMDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQt dHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6bm9ybWFsIiAvPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJiYWNrZ3Jv dW5kLWNvbG9yOiNmZmZmZmY7Y29sb3I6IzY2NjY2Njtmb250LWZhbWlseTptb25vc3BhY2U7Zm9u dC1zaXplOjEycHg7Zm9udC1zdHlsZTpub3JtYWw7Zm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6NDAwO3RleHQtYWxpZ246 c3RhcnQ7dGV4dC10cmFuc2Zvcm06bm9uZTt3aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTpub3dyYXAiPis3KDQ3MTIpNzcw LTM2NTwvc3Bhbj48YnIgc3R5bGU9ImJhY2tncm91bmQtY29sb3I6cmdiKCAyNTUgLCAyNTUgLCAy NTUgKTtjb2xvcjpyZ2IoIDEwMiAsIDEwMiAsIDEwMiApO2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5Om1vbm9zcGFjZTtm b250LXNpemU6MTJweDtmb250LXN0eWxlOm5vcm1hbDtmb250LXdlaWdodDo0MDA7dGV4dC1hbGln bjpzdGFydDt0ZXh0LXRyYW5zZm9ybTpub25lO3doaXRlLXNwYWNlOm5vcm1hbCIgLz48c3BhbiBz dHlsZT0iYmFja2dyb3VuZC1jb2xvcjojZmZmZmZmO2NvbG9yOiM2NjY2NjY7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6 bW9ub3NwYWNlO2ZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB4O2ZvbnQtc3R5bGU6bm9ybWFsO2ZvbnQtd2VpZ2h0OjQw MDt0ZXh0LWFsaWduOnN0YXJ0O3RleHQtdHJhbnNmb3JtOm5vbmU7d2hpdGUtc3BhY2U6bm93cmFw Ij4rNyg5MTkpMjEwLTk3LTczPC9zcGFuPjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+wqA8L2Rpdj4= From nobody Wed Dec 10 22:31:50 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dRVny2lL6z6JnSS for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 22:32:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (udns.ultimatedns.net [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R12" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dRVnx4kPNz3Km1 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 22:32:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 5BAMVoFG049304; Wed, 10 Dec 2025 14:31:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=bsdforge.com; s=bsdforge; t=1765405917; x=1765406517; r=y; bh=TinHH6HFWr85n6bXTzTILKfxs+y9qAAL7eYAvNirprQ=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=AtHIMT/n9R6LOzOVsIrqKu6jndxMjkeFkdKokF5c9cWo6A8xLaNnGGwBSBJs0mOLt vXz8W304K4WL0rvQYiS5TJzg+GnRjif2cneo9FUHGsDgDLTAB1Z2KuXAAZHjCZ5TlT Ehguk+U3AlTCe82GF4c5BlTT/0TiAxR4mkf949kF6PqmZn3pMT8hUCe/kJUCD29+JA PsET2pkPNmq0UJ08DFvF6QBJAG8y7D1OwgOs5bREVtgdlliM93G3XD9oDaPy+79kWa Ffgyc6Mi2eaw6wAavnQhfYIAiRc5DI4xN6jnE/krw0ZOx8bLxX4KI/QlKXMdPRaZ9a UdhdVVS/itUMw== List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2025 14:31:50 -0800 From: Chris To: Tomoaki AOKI Cc: Cy Schubert , freebsd-current Subject: Re: Anyone know how to get FreeBSD on a framework 13 laptop? In-Reply-To: <20251210175238.d05231f6ed57a5c768c442fb@dec.sakura.ne.jp> References: <63ebfc5a49b38196ead43b7403f0a12c@bsdforge.com> <20251210063425.88020295@slippy.cwsent.com> <20251210175238.d05231f6ed57a5c768c442fb@dec.sakura.ne.jp> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <4f3b4261741eae616660dcf42f448954@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_01cf2ef0f04a9d3b83e10729b7cbbbc2" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dRVnx4kPNz3Km1 --=_01cf2ef0f04a9d3b83e10729b7cbbbc2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On 2025-12-10 00:52, Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > On Tue, 09 Dec 2025 23:35:56 -0800 > Chris wrote: > >> On 2025-12-09 22:34, Cy Schubert wrote: >> > In message <63ebfc5a49b38196ead43b7403f0a12c@bsdforge.com>, Chris writes: >> >> --=_1fa5024c3e762cfee18202d6a7376470 >> >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; >> >> format=flowed >> >> >> >> OK because I know you're going to ask... :-) >> >> >> >> framework 13 laptop (MSI Crosshair 18 HX AI A2XWGKG-012US)[1],[2] >> >> CPU: Intel Core Ultra 9 Processor 275HX [3] >> >> GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5070 Laptop GPU with NVIDIA Optimus supported [4] >> >> LAN: Realtec RTL???? 2.5Gb >> >> WiFi: Intel Wi-Fi 6E AX211(2*2 ax) >> >> >> >> I'm currently unable to boot any of 13.5,14.n,15.n or 16 on this laptop. >> >> On 13.5 it hangs on sc (syscons(4)?) connect... >> > >> > Add this, >> > >> > kern.vty=vt >> > >> > to your loader.conf. >> Really appreciate your taking the time to reply, Cy. >> Just tried this. But same results. FWIW, I only saw the syscons message >> on 13.5. I've since made a 16-CURRENT from the kernel,base and lib32 >> archives >> that were on ftp.freebsd.org (now missing). >> > >> > If you look at the sc(4) man page you will notice, >> I know. :) >> >> > As to how I got my Framework 13 (with AMD chipset) installed, I cloned >> > FreeBSD, including all data, from my HP 840, also running in UEFI mode, >> > changing fstab and rc.conf to customize a few things before booting the >> > Framework laptop. (The HP 840 also uses kern.vty=vt.) >> Close to what I did to get 16 on my framework 12. All the right bits >> weren't >> yet available at that time. All good now tho. >> >> This is where I land now (on 16): >> Event timer "HPET" frequency 19200000Hz quality 350 >> Event timer "HPET1" freq... >> ... >> Event timer "HPET7" freq... >> atrtc1: on acpi0 >> atrtc1: Warning: Couldn't map I/O. >> >> Just realized I might find some clues in dmesg(1) on my framework 12. >> This is from the same area as above (yep same Warning message on my >> framework >> 12): >> >> atrtc1: on acpi0 >> atrtc1: Warning: Couldn't map I/O. >> atrtc1: registered as a time-of-day clock, resolution 1.000000s >> ioapic0: routing intpin 8 (ISA IRQ 8) to lapic 18 vector 49 >> ioapic0: routing intpin 8 (ISA IRQ 8) to lapic 0 vector 49 >> Event timer "RTC" frequency 32768 Hz quality 0 >> attimer0: port 0x40-0x43,0x50-0x53 irq 0 on acpi0 >> >> Thoughts? >> >> Thanks again! >> >> > To boot the Framework from install media, break to the loader prompt and >> > type in, >> > >> > kern.vty=vt >> > >> > Then boot. Install FreeBSD. Finally, make sure kern.vty=vt is in the >> > installed image's loader.conf before rebooting the image. >> > >> > Hope this helps. >> >> --Chris >> >> -- >> There is no such place as the internet > > Maybe these in /boot/loader.conf help? > > hint.uart.0.disabled=1 > hint.uart.1.disabled=1 Thanks for the hints, Tomoaki! Unfortunately it made no difference. :( > > Info from: > > https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/framework-16-ryzen-9-7940hs-and-freebsd-14-0-release.92421/#post-651306 > > Regards. -- There is no such place as the internet --=_01cf2ef0f04a9d3b83e10729b7cbbbc2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xE512722F.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xE512722F.asc; size=3074 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGf/G0IBCADARuJc6IcwOe3jv7dQsP1X/EIHvCFExPbTmlMNFMXbMMccQUnV o8ayEn+wmTvPhw7uL3PDk7DQs16W1sN2b8UMFc804cVWNGtoG3rA+Np+TFEYlXJx eh5Q42VHptkuwzHKl+q2utkpRlS7uHyfjsInQAoHxLyi/wrsaZTHHhDbLLhJ5Ez0 arohQ2Q1w0M5e9rW8Fy5rpC7RpC6uO1SZMxcbdqURI/BBqxbiD1iW62cDWFkfFX+ dtaEXghFV7BIBMDSrgIunGoEfdMZgXys7O6bPWn8z0cuOZIPj4HrjoCYARyQ+sdc rjz/k06SLM/UvEZDorJhT4DbYrwMNvaPWJiPABEBAAG0HkNocmlzIDxic2QtbGlz dHNAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBNQQQAQgAHwUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgEC GQECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci8bSwf/fK3QcTYXRMrv82HIp4SiGCSD7/bRmyWr ipv2vzknGFHxPBN4AEWIqF/U4j5oDXaodyU6xsy59Z47/lgbyzyZiVR6nmJVgZVf el/EgwnLt7ZuYGLLEhIN2pd9itJkB8PMPZrUHMWgIw8BxX5YFYGuyiNe9pGn0Coj 98t/v3fouhqksH+BpB4TBHJBBDSxSiMm66VTJX4Xcnpf0ZnQVP4GBuoyodnFBfdI wqftPLESsCC08lUhD2j7v2NRWwMi/q3ed8D6VCKPImBByYnBZL5gu56K5bwqaQfN itu06APuIYnG71qxgn1EPO63lovWP5NZGgOKvzs3K+JfPF79BiOUFbQjQ2hyaXMg PG1haWxvcEBocmNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zLm5ldD6JATEEEAEIABwFAmf/G0IGCwkH CAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvBH8H9RGwzZuU6+zvH1WjQa97 yWpEt9rC+BIBJThev2Cpls2LqBqIeIQVZPnyLAZWgFaiezL6+xbvcNt6OnfidIYa x8iRwCMC6/Bs8H2Wef9qfGxXi+jHPLYQk3juiZVmBhIK6FJZkzaW4wSiawofwzbp zqNxO8dZ0j4foaJZrNi8iqsvKjiiHoSFaJtumIThAeydI18CNLeFaS53sk5nad6I wCYeFKmJ/22dMP7DOFEgyG1iNYgY+AGREMkEsBiLpqYjJ5asK+1UdUy/TRly1hOt HHxCiX0Fh9ZYM2vLIj7sq4LKaMPGeYC3qTqBYugVeyz7LkiI2ft/BKveA5JxuYKk ZrQiQ2hyaXMgPG5hbm9nQGhyY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMubmV0PokBMgQQAQgAHAUC Z/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci+4Bwf8D0Ogk2/X ud/CsAgHozwzKPqfesL5SRWM14hLnU9/EHoplnZgNexbVY1wXIi2FYPo5cve9QxW Nmt3S3UTF9j2fGqv0wmeHv3EqogFUHnftLyWpbeTPOFDMIQp/BOD6ygfeXxXWxRT L6zvUkSrDtHvkQHPWGRxwP+ihWjpw9AQR/R4/qAuTAZZM0O7UnJEo4mWXatl+utF wegG2giwFTTxfF+1rMpFtUDjYCpRQ6ZmE+gC1mHUMoH7GJMQv12DbqwKrxtwGfd0 AJNO3ZDnxl24BmIfl1YqQGZQ5iIH7At4YItESbU45hoNNsG9oDrsil78EUCAtXHd UPScj+eXaeAkgrQfQ2hyaXMgPHBvcnRtYXN0ZXJAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBMgQQ AQgAHAUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci9o7Af+ Lwu5hJlI5HZNGwAll7QTIFZVW+y4OEg+amhxTDGbAAqlnSIkHC1KgkmIOOrThme3 kTFCqfIIsuP73yKxHq6kRG0zH5/7asAPNAUOfzD7B2o/gMyuTRKyG5r9f3UmACr4 6qvtFhIwROXr6+NNT2IKg3l0/8F58A0N/TR8D2PTHeo4x6jYcZQDCrCy7BAdk3cu V16k4z/1UzRa07b5McezbWL20cIaZ+dqNcCjKZpzPlTyTCGgrNNtaDpNVhoWUKMB YNcKql+tfC1IpX8l+IU6OBKcDKMkQojvO1QrZqY8MDJGo8jq/CtotQ8+IpAai3Bx dQEsxrxlcKTR4rUqvd8VGbkBDQRn/xtCAQgAv5Nv/aQN72xsLik+K73PJwpUmyhu vnI6stM6dSecylXVHjZ7C4n/m0eQEeQCl+9lByHR9N8H+WS3DtAd4pmciiIxRQLA JZiuaLYcy9ziy1h7130VoR7hhJHzo9FIhWkTGlCDX3egUZrYhMiwFUO8lNltLB8o TBvIrMSsnUzawtQjq/otv0Jf+oBPbG+gIYnAm7w6r86n/l+eVxf5eEoS7wV0DJfp b2jE5zWErWk8I/tq4e8T+1VQeVQR6wz+NrUCSxkPkpNAm19AFUHOk//yvMGWVlDW F6gr3ErN2a0w/kZ0lz3Msxsb87QT+MnJf/T3cuEqdTIoSk74BfNEAdMohQARAQAB iQEfBBgBCAAJBQJn/xtCAhsMAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvyvIH/26zytSVNDaxtprg7XtX LerIWf9RyVx8omCw/lXKRCcgkfwD7QR+nSZ0thWOGMpcnivjuReeVRkz/webUF47 BXJ/Tge07nrxdtyTIHBbp35fPIriaKaII6YWc2Ufdxwv+cD8PADS6gQWAlgrWLmn VmYtyHs4kwtiPZyUyuBdWnZal2GyYY0WVwYjvbk95eInwOaIdoTjesJ7ZhUFu155 r4hh9GlvM0uv8WJ5Mw9wvHa5fIM205I5g0IWC7yvTwwwKHlV4JQQOqMwfv569OEl 1GKqA12nSVziB1+UV+I0NqOABWi/MOi+IySPzYP+XgdPfRNx4vmoHYZwWOQ3t4Jd TEM= =oj6y -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --=_01cf2ef0f04a9d3b83e10729b7cbbbc2-- From nobody Thu Dec 11 02:08:56 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dRbcX2Ytyz6K68G for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 02:09:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic301-20.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic301-20.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.64.146]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dRbcV1PRBz3qg5 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 02:09:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b=uGnyyl3z; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.64.146 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1765418951; bh=Ot+k1MOcJOUnKRpNRcLji5Iom8B1UzgmbkuxlK1CoNg=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=uGnyyl3zALw3jnGOnlj/lRN/sF17ShludubfxJ/nRVG7q5Un8fr9i58c5QLpGRRsMKVUlooUS3nGocKewP2xM4RY+/DSAxBTNUEwg9mLP+cpcSQIjF+bO/lwUoGXvivsgmwi5/b0glk/jKXLSpTXZ1rXcTqYqeIqLgMMVZYGbSFvbZCyW+RAOpzWMQVGyqrg/QDj3p5Y1f43P+DCZ+4QP/t5uxhKg5cTJjyqfvhSHlKK5njPAaTjelUF1PhaxsbpAXhrQhwFt/bpmFtDSBG6xvXebUeXQ96eDwH/JpguVf+3PzPoHV6aoUpV7FhM4x6MOTd0dH2NF9okwp4LL2ol+w== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1765418951; bh=Y2XP8fD8NkzzMDelwh6exp4P/N2358WZXWpPSV6nl2p=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Subject:From:Date:To:From:Subject; b=hm9BQqs19UODQmZiTNAiso8LcQ9pZE1731V+Wn+THyjr3UMmFz4ivkclAi0KQwqH+N2RVTNXUDEHRBfHJ5CVWhqtaoDTsYxZWlRRT5Df0sJkVC3jBmLtkoAUN6AAJWZHlcSK5MZ0+IpLwk2PYyl9SiK4YhigInqMeghfSqazL2xRnswW8vobqv6C7WXtrzZZovDRBxG+e0DEJawabQpfpA6GfMYb+mdCmH5RluIjD9ChaPQnB8A4ljEpk+7S3Yg2cQxcTbqcg2DuLb26//53KVYgW7SHLCaEdzA5cuGT80VpfLYLm4d8WJekPVIXcY75W0tXinYbW8V1m9mrJz+xrA== X-YMail-OSG: rx1TCcYVM1lIFn4WE90AyIS8bS57wN9kgl22kIiWmj.sXMeon5i0Vc5YfhZF56q AOWOQqT51zWamDDVDs5_Vf5rpzP.Y5parNb2ScGBmqnLs09SpKhAFOyTCjNMLspBA_x_eo.xnJ3h ng3LPnadJak74MTBwuMLjI1o.osWwHlC81hxWsCGzqM4sSRka8R3eJPXPNnAkYTEo24XM5R5lr5v nHsr90wvZ0X2K141Yj9RgLqYQOig7tziS2AWZPKx7uyz9WWzZv_hpv1iYp_RquK59B3oGYkFTDAn txYlDLpYpjgbv8sPddL7.lZ6NZMIQ.SxXtBkzvVZx63FRL4_tUfA7b4Bge7Tu.LOH9ug.cArWpN4 sDLx4ojLjquPSyPT4kI4zlGv7CrvtuTvzwl_LbBdiDAtxLfO9xwoedgBPXIFhcNuzL0guz4lrpaq 3.mWl48.hjHbC3r4iTOFMuiB0pSq3u142XnZnRwEkrcPzJhDEfzVTfVkL7wvcfHL_wbrgSDjK0x2 tolUnEeBpySB2fN_A7r5og2OzxSGzDvKTSXPeCzynxIJBcQWbpPTsETwjcugdUkqnBE2zUmx1nIC jwc0hRS7ZF9sL5ENAe0Up14XipUa02OR9MbYuIz.j075cn289cnkGQJwnEj7mYBTHBnzymKEesvg hOO07DifnL_UPsKVJ0cIPE11C.e5c27QMTUPpACTVPR3TK4yI71tqaYpvo3S1EwK8QNmIvxIgaRc HvfQjwQsWY3eOrXxGJoNvV9pbFXqyaNLCu8Mxv1vDGSo7j1dlkM_Y_4JWVw2.TdWPAlIllKZGQYP Kpqt.b459hxOZWMw4nYtKk27cpbeR_MBlKHFTIHGWtwQwSRibOVNlDxlkvRGkt1nwuv.1xCFM.6J MMm7dGjrwDJUOYdg_q7sjyb5RHoTOCY0AE9Gje4MyHgDtaf.8kgu2m4GiIpWn3HlaSodfubvgdUm _X51gV.QZqRC6JwAdnc4Fa78qlZrlSm8eszT_IuA5L.FSTCMOyit.RBUpB_Rxkp0F.T6OAG04j5N 4TLsSsQbIr6NDFqgyKtm4oRzYhehNOsWvE0wAGc52j5j__w93cSKv6T.GA57HcegGn.M4OhAgupb jjK4VWPGjlZi364pEl6ki5IaGilDnhJIdkOpXS3Ed.e3WmUXijKoADUURWkkBvQ8hm7IjGrbT9Mi icxKLJNXjGcqbKKNMW9GnLGjg3NBjOYzC3OYOsut9FukIB5.UbjVX1ICSJfPfCjG2.BvauAOkC_Y krj9bPierSN8dCPuwtHMylw6J9efWhC3HoTR6tTrsuvVTZ7UYAmIukAzn7YTUUmucep92O5IS7Jh qy.Iboo.BXJQHhxUd4oo4B0ctN8kXEOv8puv61TLTuXAXF35Bg7zp51uBlYOuzsXVvj5h4zhc37O Ge3uEfYOb81haY27v2PfEdxtV4IZkAdZmadB6ctbIhS2G66yBX6DwZaMC.H_6TOFeYEOjSTKZl3_ c6N8efcwjE9A.hzNW6fQFpxwzSBpbc_jdTDQEhMrfKxdB_YIWXO5EXvIb5fwAdisSXVVGiv3S3Gp MzCD_W1vN1A_fUqDVlr6JjzDP7rpkvdAYDNb6.OE5hrGdCH97Us.xcGMO34WAopkUqlmzQFiFz71 IIcCFkAjMB3feSc6fJuAfwzUTIG7g3THIk.fyrOaJ0xDWB5PFJftLJg9Y5zfiwtW1jQnxfzlrH4s 7IciVU5kz_1CaF9WZqwXOroQPfCVyi8cv9fvVXq1G8p0aK8wbvuXiJp1Hy5LjqGuyOpGs4Du03FX pv0tnm5NZtDKnOwRjw7qH3hihKG6wApsjqlASakzsfpIbrUcP4b3mpPHZOq9RgrJAsMSh6jsc6ny KRz36cmwLCsI_4rOyXEh3y9546D4v8gUhpGyBgv6ZxdoUFCvdv1BMQn3_HmNDS1EnkT4Hq5c7ipC RGk6rJoHPnisOHinQFp.p9aTmHHcq3VQGW2JO0GUPLREtoymELyQSH6AMpDcQ.ZoMKCEMdU2n5DR ME6.4JbtN0XKOiAqj1MsNWh0NwuyWPuMs4rAUCiuxARjtvyep2Y2EixMZy3UKJDvShA6YD3Lu93T xB2m1gKEp7.qwmUQXLGVg3Cza_iruf4X5.Lpdab_b23we0gRM89c52f9hhNTZPN5T3EV3ZDNf9fx AwW3CFBhK4_1GM_CLp1BDXr7MEY8qwh_z__FKvRAtyT7ruGzdAV8f4MU.yeqcxKv4mCaoXRuchBV LWJDjpOhbWWSOSgN1Vr8hoDDTftzPyml7rPkxgH7VCqCPOzoR4hL.w4dLj66jsplNMTFM73oUL3T MNUNKHKP4yLnoW92TpSJIXS.mexAjlpEB5w-- X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: ca2748e4-868a-4cf9-91ef-07df22041e90 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 02:09:11 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-gq1-54bf57fc64-8j6k2 (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID b0f73ce5814b2594bb4e55a0b33db908; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 02:09:07 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: Re: performance regressions in 15.0 [Single example of amd64 7950X3CD system's build-time ratio for 14.3-STABLE / 14.3-RELEASE (jails)] From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <577319E0-2051-436A-B9C0-6C1A2DE90618@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2025 18:08:56 -0800 Cc: Rozhuk Ivan Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <18FB2858-5CBB-4B7A-8089-224A58C6A160@yahoo.com> <19A848A6-0042-4873-B70D-AD6805225B92@yahoo.com> <902C948B-0A4C-48E1-8C6C-1BC7A15209D7@yahoo.com> <33F5F7DE-8DFA-47E2-A890-E07564825D05@yahoo.com> <20251209172255.6d1a7f4c@rimwks.local> <927C3BBE-BA9E-45A4-A43E-6416CF388FF5@yahoo.com> <577319E0-2051-436A-B9C0-6C1A2DE90618@yahoo.com> To: Warner Losh , Konstantin Belousov , Mateusz Guzik , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.47 / 15.00]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.972]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.64.146:from]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[bsdimp.com,freebsd.org,gmail.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; APPLE_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.64.146:from]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dRbcV1PRBz3qg5 On Dec 9, 2025, at 20:10, Mark Millard wrote: > On Dec 9, 2025, at 17:15, Mark Millard wrote: >=20 >> On Dec 9, 2025, at 12:32, Mark Millard wrote: >>=20 >>> On Dec 9, 2025, at 07:22, Rozhuk Ivan wrote: >>>=20 >>>> On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 09:23:52 -0800 >>>> Mark Millard wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> But, as of yet, I've no good evidence for blaming >>>>> jemalloc as a major contributor to those timing >>>>> ratios --or for blaming any other specific part >>>>> of 15.0 . >>>>=20 >>>> If you want to bench jmalloc - there is another ways to do that = without building something. >>>> Try to find some sythetic benchmarks. >>>> Also jmalloc can be build without OS rebuild and linked with bench. >>>>=20 >>>> This 2 things can reduce time to tests, but it will eliminate OS = integation factors. >>>> Run same bench on different OS may give more info. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> [I've eliminated direct Email to most everyone >>> for this reply. There is not even minor new >>> technical content.] >>>=20 >>> At this point I'm more likely to explore if I >>> get similar ratios as ampere[13] do for some >>> port-package builds that have the large ratios on >>> ampere[13]. There are examples that are not as >>> overall time consuming for ampere[13] as what I've >>> already referenced (but are still non-trivial for >>> the time taken). As stands, I do not have a good >>> reproduce-the-issue context, much less one with >>> build time frames I'd be willing to deal with in >>> my environment. >>=20 >> Time-ratios similar to the ampere[13] ones for >> 15.0 vs. 14.3 (or 13.5) were easily repeatable >> on the Microsoft Windows Dev Kit 2023 for doing >> poudriere builds of the examples that I tried. >>=20 >> port-package builds tested for below: devel/cmake-core >> TMPFS_BLACKLIST empty >> ALLOW_MAKE_JOBS=3D in use (no explicit MAKE_JOBS_NUMBER like = restrictions) >> UFS context (except for what USE_TMPFS=3Dall does in poudriere) >> The below did not update /usr/ports/distfiles/ . >>=20 >> This does some exploration of USE_TMPFS=3Dno vs. >> USE_TMPFS=3Dall as well, starting with >> USE_TMPFS=3Dno . >>=20 >> Listed in the sequence executed, first time >> runs shown first: >>=20 >>=20 >> USE_TMPFS=3Dno . . . >> (Note: The first times had other port-packages to build first.) >>=20 >> 15.0 poudriere jail: >> [00:37:37] [01] [00:12:30] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success >>=20 >> 14.3 poudriere jail: >> [00:28:26] [01] [00:09:38] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success >>=20 >> Approx. 1.30 time ratio (15.0's 12:30 / 14.3's 9:38) >>=20 >>=20 >> USE_TMPFS=3Dall (no tmpfs black list) . . . >>=20 >> 14.3 poudriere jail: >> [00:09:32] [03] [00:09:24] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success >>=20 >> 15.0 poudriere jail: >> [00:12:45] [03] [00:12:34] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success >>=20 >> Approx. 1.34 time ratio (15.0's/14.3's) >>=20 >>=20 >> The following also prefixed the poudriere bulk -C command >> with: time -l >>=20 >> 15.0 poudriere jail: >> [00:12:36] [04] [00:12:25] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success >> . . . >> 757.10 real 4613.06 user 251.09 sys >> 866580 maximum resident set size >> 131 average shared memory size >> 27 average unshared data size >> 234 average unshared stack size >> 31148816 page reclaims >> 0 page faults >> 0 swaps >> 14 block input operations >> 36 block output operations >> 37061 messages sent >> 33671 messages received >> 1758 signals received >> 143987 voluntary context switches >> 167515 involuntary context switches >>=20 >> 14.3 poudriere jail: >> [00:09:23] [01] [00:09:15] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success >> . . . >> 564.48 real 3449.89 user 204.14 sys >> 822900 maximum resident set size >> 64692 average shared memory size >> 791 average unshared data size >> 235 average unshared stack size >> 28153497 page reclaims >> 0 page faults >> 0 swaps >> 9 block input operations >> 12 block output operations >> 34180 messages sent >> 31539 messages received >> 1758 signals received >> 131899 voluntary context switches >> 132775 involuntary context switches >>=20 >> Approx. 1.34 time ratio (15.0's/14.3's) >>=20 >>=20 >> USE_TMPFS=3Dno . . . (again) >>=20 >> 15.0 poudriere jail: >> [00:13:01] [04] [00:12:27] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success >> . . . >> 784.89 real 4596.42 user 257.12 sys >> 866600 maximum resident set size >> 128 average shared memory size >> 25 average unshared data size >> 234 average unshared stack size >> 31194466 page reclaims >> 2371 page faults >> 0 swaps >> 3573 block input operations >> 6687 block output operations >> 37643 messages sent >> 33840 messages received >> 1756 signals received >> 241548 voluntary context switches >> 304249 involuntary context switches >>=20 >> 14.3 poudriere jail: >> [00:09:49] [04] [00:09:18] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success >> . . . >> 592.83 real 3446.18 user 207.61 sys >> 823880 maximum resident set size >> 64712 average shared memory size >> 787 average unshared data size >> 236 average unshared stack size >> 28176650 page reclaims >> 2374 page faults >> 0 swaps >> 3481 block input operations >> 5148 block output operations >> 34521 messages sent >> 31580 messages received >> 1758 signals received >> 218881 voluntary context switches >> 255193 involuntary context switches >>=20 >> Approx. 1.34 time ratio (15.0's/14.3's) >>=20 >>=20 >> Only some port-packages have time-ratios >> near 1.34. For example, building lang/gcc15 >> does not on ampere[13]: closer to 1.1 as >> I remember. (For the most part, lang/gcc15 >> does most of its own building based on a >> smaller amount of clang-built code >> to bootstrap.) >>=20 >>=20 >> For reference: >>=20 >> # poudriere jail -l >> JAILNAME VERSION OSVERSION ARCH METHOD = TIMESTAMP PATH >> release14-aarch64 14.3-RELEASE-p6 1403000 arm64.aarch64 ftp-archive = 2025-12-09 12:54:06 /usr/local/poudriere/jails/release14-aarch64 >> . . . >> release-aarch64 15.0-RELEASE 1500068 aarch64 pkgbase = 2025-12-06 11:34:39 /usr/local/poudriere/jails/release-aarch64 >> . . . >>=20 >> # ~/fbsd-based-on-what-commit.sh -C /usr/ports >> bb7b77417165 (HEAD -> main, freebsd/main, freebsd/HEAD) www/hurl: = update 7.0.0 -> 7.1.0 >> Author: Rodrigo Osorio >> Commit: Rodrigo Osorio >> CommitDate: 2025-11-28 23:11:52 +0000 >> branch: main >> merge-base: bb7b774171651eea0dc56376c225fe976231daa5 >> merge-base: CommitDate: 2025-11-28 23:11:52 +0000 >> n726888 (--first-parent --count for merge-base) >>=20 >> # uname -apKU >> FreeBSD aarch64-main-pbase 16.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT = main-n281922-4872b48b175c GENERIC-NODEBUG arm64 aarch64 1600004 1600004 >>=20 >> (That last was an official pkgbase distribution.) >=20 > 14.3-STABLE does not have jemalloc 5.3.0 or libsys > but performs like 15.0-RELEASE, not 14.3-RELEASE > for the aarch64 devel/cmake-core build tests. > But 14.3-STABLE does have: >=20 > # ldd /usr/local/poudriere/jails/official14-aarch64/usr/bin/cc > /usr/local/poudriere/jails/official14-aarch64/usr/bin/cc: > libprivateclang.so.19 =3D> /usr/lib/libprivateclang.so.19 = (0x732e0d600000) > libprivatellvm.so.19 =3D> /usr/lib/libprivatellvm.so.19 = (0x732e12600000) > . . . >=20 > while 14.3-RELEASE does not. >=20 > (Another data point is that lang/gcc15 does not have > nearly as large of a time-ratio vs. 14.3-RELEASE > in the data from ampere[13] .) >=20 >=20 >=20 > Details from the Microsoft Dev Kit 2023 experiments > . . . >=20 > I've collected a sequence for a new poudriere jail > to compare/contrast with: >=20 > # poudriere jail -l > JAILNAME VERSION OSVERSION ARCH METHOD = TIMESTAMP PATH > . . . > official14-aarch64 14.3-STABLE 1403506 arm64.aarch64 freebsdci = 2025-12-09 18:24:20 /usr/local/poudriere/jails/official14-aarch64 > . . . >=20 > (ampere[13] do not have examples of recent 14.3-STABLE builds at this = point.) >=20 >=20 > USE_TMPFS=3Dno . . . > (Note: The first times had other port-packages to build first. > But the system still has the cached the file system data.) >=20 > stable/14 poudriere jail: > [00:36:29] [01] [00:12:31] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success >=20 > So: 12:31 is far more like 15.0-RELEASE >=20 >=20 > USE_TMPFS=3Dall . . . >=20 > stable/14 poudriere jail: > [00:12:21] [07] [00:12:10] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success > . . . > 742.70 real 4586.53 user 248.37 sys > 864996 maximum resident set size > 133 average shared memory size > 24 average unshared data size > 235 average unshared stack size > 30958626 page reclaims > 0 page faults > 0 swaps > 456 block input operations > 80 block output operations > 35920 messages sent > 33223 messages received > 1760 signals received > 140580 voluntary context switches > 164112 involuntary context switches >=20 > So: 12:10 is far more like 15.0-RELEASE >=20 >=20 > stable/14 poudriere jail (again): > [00:12:30] [08] [00:12:19] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success > . . . > 751.98 real 4604.85 user 251.40 sys > 866056 maximum resident set size > 125 average shared memory size > 21 average unshared data size > 235 average unshared stack size > 30976603 page reclaims > 0 page faults > 0 swaps > 20 block input operations > 11 block output operations > 36297 messages sent > 33327 messages received > 1761 signals received > 144213 voluntary context switches > 166975 involuntary context switches >=20 > So: 12:19 is far more like 15.0-RELEASE >=20 >=20 > USE_TMPFS=3Dno . . . > (Note: The first times had other port-packages to build first.) >=20 > stable/14 poudriere jail: > [00:13:16] [05] [00:12:49] Finished devel/cmake-core | = cmake-core-3.31.9: Success > . . . > 799.95 real 4626.06 user 261.49 sys > 865940 maximum resident set size > 134 average shared memory size > 24 average unshared data size > 235 average unshared stack size > 31110419 page reclaims > 2380 page faults > 0 swaps > 3577 block input operations > 6262 block output operations > 37253 messages sent > 33801 messages received > 1758 signals received > 236161 voluntary context switches > 312615 involuntary context switches >=20 >=20 > So: 12:49 is far more like 15.0-RELEASE >=20 >=20 > (Nice to have a known repeatable context to try > variations with.) >=20 On the 7950X3D system that I have access to, I created: # poudriere jail -l JAILNAME VERSION OSVERSION ARCH METHOD = TIMESTAMP PATH release14-amd64 14.3-RELEASE-p6 1403000 amd64 ftp-archive = 2025-12-10 12:55:10 /usr/local/poudriere/jails/release14-amd64 official14-amd64 14.3-STABLE 1403506 amd64 freebsdci = 2025-12-10 12:55:17 /usr/local/poudriere/jails/official14-amd64 . . . I then did builds of qt6-webengine-6.9.3 for each (all 32 FreeBSD CPUs allowed, with 32 builders allowed when building prerequisites): amd64 7950XCD 14.3-RELEASE poudriere jail: [01:35:37] [01] [00:32:14] Finished www/qt6-webengine | = qt6-webengine-6.9.3: Success amd64 7950XCD 14.3-STABLE poudriere jail: [01:56:15] [01] [00:40:46] Finished www/qt6-webengine | = qt6-webengine-6.9.3: Success 40:46 / 32:14 approx.=3D 1.26 as a suggestive figure for the specific test context, an actual example. But I've no way to test across the variety of FreeBSD official builder systems and do not see a point in exploring the variability just for my specific type of amd64 context. 1.26 is smaller than on the ampere*'s or the Microsoft Dev Kit 2023 context (aarch64) got but is still notable for its size. It suggests that the issue is not aarch64 specific overall. I'll note that I've only explored the one type of example performance regression: port-package build time ratios that are notable. There could be other regressions that are unrelated or are minor for the examples that I've looked at but are important for other contexts. It looks to me like the tradeoff between builder-time and memory use by clang/clang++/related needs an explicit choice about the handling going forwards. If only the ampere*'s port-package building was being considered, it looks like "take less time" would seem the likely judgment: there are lots of time problems already for the 3 aarch64 builder machines. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com